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X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=NMz7BXyg c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10:nop_ipv6 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=iLNU1ar6AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Si747_xX_Zo5n6SdhPwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=0wH9ZIx4bsGjvuPfXIUA:9 a=Py1qFGz8ibcdH3za:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10:nop_html a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From: References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID :Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To: Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe :List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=20txzHF86qhRwSTwG/LcMNU8cD7LsaKxA/xuTRMSBz4=; b=tP3fvXoHEv6U2joiZyKrVLvw/Z CLVHdXmEWBJTimptBDZHtTynY925uhT52ltgFMqQo7gT6IE/DUj/YCb8ftzZCRkWWeucV9Qy4v0K+ ye/OP5poGNpAjipSCgSOoftxO; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=59849 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jKLVo-002XTh-60; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 06:33:28 -0600 To: Greg Mirsky , DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs References: <158499234353.2269.18160711545407844886@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 08:33:27 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DE90229249F6E0F71236A814" Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jKLVo-002XTh-60 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:59849 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 12:33:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DE90229249F6E0F71236A814 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Greg,     Let us (chairs) know if and when you decide on a time for open working meetings on this draft/topic, and we will make the WG's webex available for these meetings. Lou (and Janos) On 3/23/2020 3:44 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Dear All, > a new version of the OAM for IP DetNet has been published. Please > welcome David Black, who has kindly agreed to join in the work on this > document. Updates included in this version are a result of discussions > among the authors that we now share with the group. We always > appreciate your questions, comments, and suggestions. > > Regards, > Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: > > Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 12:39 PM > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt > To: Mach Chen (Guoyi) >, David Black >, Gregory Mirsky > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt > has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name:           draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam > Revision:       02 > Title:          Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM) for > Deterministic Networks (DetNet) with IP Data Plane > Document date:  2020-03-23 > Group:          Individual Submission > Pages:          7 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02 > > Abstract: >    This document defines the principals for using Operations, >    Administration, and Maintenance protocols and mechanisms in the >    Deterministic Networking networks with IP data plane. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org > . > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet --------------DE90229249F6E0F71236A814 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Greg,

    Let us (chairs) know if and when you decide on a time for open working meetings on this draft/topic, and we will make the WG's webex available for these meetings.

Lou (and Janos)

On 3/23/2020 3:44 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
Dear All,
a new version of the OAM for IP DetNet has been published. Please welcome David Black, who has kindly agreed to join in the work on this document. Updates included in this version are a result of discussions among the authors that we now share with the group. We always appreciate your questions, comments, and suggestions.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 12:39 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt
To: Mach Chen (Guoyi) <mach.chen@huawei.com>, David Black <david.black@dell.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam
Revision:       02
Title:          Operations, Administration and Maintenance (OAM) for Deterministic Networks (DetNet) with IP Data Plane
Document date:  2020-03-23
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          7
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam-02

Abstract:
   This document defines the principals for using Operations,
   Administration, and Maintenance protocols and mechanisms in the
   Deterministic Networking networks with IP data plane.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
--------------DE90229249F6E0F71236A814-- From nobody Mon Apr 6 06:30:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E1B3A1084; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 06:03:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alvaro Retana via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alvaro Retana Message-ID: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 06:03:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 13:10:52 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) Given the close relationship with IEEE, I think we need external review. (2) "identify the appropriate Working Group" This phrase shows up a couple of times. I was first worried that it was meant as a means for the WG to simply decide which WG (including itself) would do the work, but now I think it is meant as a dispatch-like function: "we need this work done, WG x seems like the right place." Is my interpretation correct? Please try to clarify so that there is no confusion later...maybe something along the lines of "the work will be done in the WG responsible for the technology". (3) Is the intent to publish the "vertical requirements" documents as RFCs? Just wondering because it sounds like an open-ended effort. Suggestion: if appropriate, scope the documents to industries that have new requirements which have not been addressed already. (4) s/OSPF, IS-IS/LSR (5) Milestones would be nice. From nobody Tue Apr 7 01:57:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93AC3A194E; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 01:57:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker To: Cc: last-call@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158624986177.7879.15272885885261397703@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 01:57:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 08:57:42 -0000 Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida Review result: Ready with Nits This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF discussion list for information. When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. Summary: Ready with Nits. This document is well-written as an informational RFC. I don't see any technical issues related to transport, but it might be better to clarify the following minor point. The draft allows DetNet data plane to carry flow ID and sequence number as metadata. But, aren't there any potential risks for the conflict of the flow ID or wrap-around of the sequence number? (especially for explicit case) It might be better to state which module should care if it's out of scope for the draft or to clarify there is no risk against them. 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Tue, 7 Apr 2020 12:32:39 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Varga_A?= To: "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TSN related Data Plane documents Thread-Index: AdYM1elbQDeqarfsQyiaEraqN11/iQ== Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 12:32:39 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: hu-HU, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [94.21.191.236] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ec99edd3-54ef-43fa-1fe9-08d7daefc2c4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR0702MB3666: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:2958; x-forefront-prvs: 036614DD9C x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0PR0702MB3603.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(396003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(366004)(136003)(8936002)(55016002)(478600001)(8676002)(9686003)(966005)(81166006)(4744005)(86362001)(33656002)(6916009)(81156014)(5660300002)(316002)(26005)(6506007)(52536014)(7696005)(2906002)(66446008)(9326002)(66556008)(64756008)(71200400001)(186003)(76116006)(66476007)(66946007); 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boundary="_000_AM0PR0702MB360390AF5AC4AED8F5EBF210ACC30AM0PR0702MB3603_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ec99edd3-54ef-43fa-1fe9-08d7daefc2c4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Apr 2020 12:32:39.4997 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: p3BcGUKQ62Kc8v5B167Kf82XxI4+utVM0cdtgJ7YL7Wyi2g2ixF7lXsHD6c4KcgEP9pdrOmdSkrVy+LFSeAqXg7aIP6saQNMY5GhqpRdvnY= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR0702MB3666 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] TSN related Data Plane documents X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 12:32:49 -0000 --_000_AM0PR0702MB360390AF5AC4AED8F5EBF210ACC30AM0PR0702MB3603_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, TSN related data plane drafts were presented and discussed at IETF 106. These drafts were updated on 6th March. 02 versions are available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ - draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-02 - draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-02 - draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-02 Authors' view is that these versions are ready for Last Call. Any comments are highly welcome. Cheers Bala'zs --_000_AM0PR0702MB360390AF5AC4AED8F5EBF210ACC30AM0PR0702MB3603_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

TSN related data plane drafts were presented and dis= cussed at IETF 106.

 

These drafts were updated on 6th March. 0= 2 versions are available at

https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/<= /o:p>

- draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-02

- draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-02

- draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-02<= /p>

 

Authors’ view is that these versions are ready= for Last Call.

Any comments are highly welcome.

 

Cheers

Bala’zs

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_AM0PR0702MB360390AF5AC4AED8F5EBF210ACC30AM0PR0702MB3603_-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 20:39:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210443A09BE; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:39:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Barry Leiba via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: <158631718503.10748.10845993673864782907@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 20:39:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Barry Leiba's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 03:39:45 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I share Álvaro’s concern about the vertical industries. From nobody Wed Apr 8 04:42:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8243A03FE; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:42:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Magnus Westerlund via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: <158634614765.1934.1227033307589896413@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 04:42:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:42:29 -0000 Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I share some of Alvaro's concern regarding the dispatching. I think the requirements angle is also interesting here. I fully expect DETNET to produce reasonable requirements on for example a transport protocol as perceived from the DETNET WGs. After a suitable WG has been identified I would expect that significant discussion over these requirements, likely resulting i changes, would occur. I hope this view is shared, but the usage of the word define, could be interpret as a bit more strict than what I expect was the intention here. 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To the extent that existing transport protocol= s have to be modified to be used with DetNet, those modifications make it m= ore difficult to adapt applications that use those protocols to take advant= age of DetNet. In the revised charter, would "define" -> "discuss" help? Thanks, --David (Transport Technical Advisor to detnet WG) > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund via > Datatracker > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:42 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet= -01- > 00: (with COMMENT) >=20 >=20 > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >=20 > Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I share some of Alvaro's concern regarding the dispatching. I think the > requirements angle is also interesting here. I fully expect DETNET to pro= duce > reasonable requirements on for example a transport protocol as perceived = from > the DETNET WGs. After a suitable WG has been identified I would expect th= at > significant discussion over these requirements, likely resulting i change= s, > would occur. I hope this view is shared, but the usage of the word define= , > could be interpret as a bit more strict than what I expect was the intent= ion > here. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Wed Apr 8 07:34:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492623A0DE6; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 07:34:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.268 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.268 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.168, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oaheZZGN1M_p; 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micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-p+lbUuraixQBLNWjEh7S" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9954d4c4-1333-4cc1-d29d-08d7dbc9e2e2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Apr 2020 14:34:03.5411 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: I0pBYfcpKQmSmWmpSWC/hfgXJYFsEQih5fz+sD+POfwc15VUUfT51V2VWPbXpSjwEkqRREV+c09zRajytU11b9cRcs7YAhT91PhFsb5aCfc= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0702MB3835 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:34:11 -0000 --=-p+lbUuraixQBLNWjEh7S Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2020-04-08 at 13:47 +0000, Black, David wrote: > Hi Magnus, >=20 > There's an overriding "less is more" concern here, especially around tran= sport > protocol modifications. To the extent that existing transport protocols = have > to be modified to be used with DetNet, those modifications make it more > difficult to adapt applications that use those protocols to take advantag= e of > DetNet. >=20 > In the revised charter, would "define" -> "discuss" help? Yes. I think as long as there are no implied assumption that the hgiher lay= ers are bound to strictly follow these requirements it would be fine. /Magnus >=20 > Thanks, --David (Transport Technical Advisor to detnet WG) >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detnet On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund v= ia > > Datatracker > > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:42 AM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > > Subject: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detn= et- > > 01- > > 00: (with COMMENT) > >=20 > >=20 > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > >=20 > > Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for > > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection > >=20 > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >=20 > > I share some of Alvaro's concern regarding the dispatching. I think the > > requirements angle is also interesting here. I fully expect DETNET to > > produce > > reasonable requirements on for example a transport protocol as perceive= d > > from > > the DETNET WGs. After a suitable WG has been identified I would expect = that > > significant discussion over these requirements, likely resulting i chan= ges, > > would occur. I hope this view is shared, but the usage of the word defi= ne, > > could be interpret as a bit more strict than what I expect was the inte= ntion > > here. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet --=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --=-p+lbUuraixQBLNWjEh7S Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEtww 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From: Janos Farkas To: Alvaro Retana , The IESG CC: "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDBTTVGtFx7HHlkegveNRTRs3iahvf5yQ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:53:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [2a02:ab88:36c1:cb00:3115:1e2b:838a:ac08] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 734de784-bc9e-4429-5361-08d7dbe5be2b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR07MB6192: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0367A50BB1 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; 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734de784-bc9e-4429-5361-08d7dbe5be2b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Apr 2020 17:53:27.8699 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9UcUtVNhIcaCIjwSxKBqWsPdZ4Qddz+jFoUNgyEPIO1px5FcgE04ydUwT7hITUGf4g7lP1LPL0Agx99EdPultkJn+CCLEGJsH9dW7pjSyXw= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB6192 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 17:53:36 -0000 SGkgQWx2YXJvLA0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgcmV2aWV3IQ0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0 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From: Janos Farkas To: Magnus Westerlund , "iesg@ietf.org" , "David.Black@dell.com" CC: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDZrOvx8wuy2udkmEVUuqv/G2lKhvPSuAgAANH4CAADhLoA== Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:57:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158634614765.1934.1227033307589896413@ietfa.amsl.com> <9e348474843a90e59b0bbecba6924404bca29a70.camel@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <9e348474843a90e59b0bbecba6924404bca29a70.camel@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [2a02:ab88:36c1:cb00:3115:1e2b:838a:ac08] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0b933816-54e7-48ad-c731-08d7dbe647dd x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR07MB6192:|VI1PR07MB6192: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Magnus, Thank you for your review! David, Thank you for the suggestion to resolve. I agree that we should make this change. I've included it in the suggested changes to the relevant text in response to Alvaro's comment. Thank you, Best regards, Janos -----Original Message----- From: Magnus Westerlund Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:34 PM To: iesg@ietf.org; David.Black@dell.com Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) On Wed, 2020-04-08 at 13:47 +0000, Black, David wrote: > Hi Magnus, > > There's an overriding "less is more" concern here, especially around > transport > protocol modifications. To the extent that existing transport protocols > have > to be modified to be used with DetNet, those modifications make it more > difficult to adapt applications that use those protocols to take advantage > of > DetNet. > > In the revised charter, would "define" -> "discuss" help? Yes. I think as long as there are no implied assumption that the hgiher layers are bound to strictly follow these requirements it would be fine. /Magnus > > Thanks, --David (Transport Technical Advisor to detnet WG) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detnet On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund via > > Datatracker > > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:42 AM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > > Subject: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet- > > 01- > > 00: (with COMMENT) > > > > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > > > Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for > > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I share some of Alvaro's concern regarding the dispatching. I think the > > requirements angle is also interesting here. I fully expect DETNET to > > produce > > reasonable requirements on for example a transport protocol as perceived > > from > > the DETNET WGs. After a suitable WG has been identified I would expect > > that > > significant discussion over these requirements, likely resulting i > > changes, > > would occur. I hope this view is shared, but the usage of the word define, > > could be interpret as a bit more strict than what I expect was the > > intention > > here. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet -- Cheers Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01D60DDF.E7F109D0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVaDCCAyAw 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PPkzgrbhvimoPifPmNb6fvC5knvL8VulxeSo+Bds1eAQRUhNrJ3ID12DPta0RO+obBtH EZpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYTSbVSK9NOeJZDA8f/MHWox3cEr4DhM0sDizL9RKu6Egf7QAtH Um6TixLF96oC7MqLNdKRpWgO9n0GzBIbjtZHuh4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypI+hHKAHl3AyJ4z/5OZolbVT5GlTx5y7HBSJeiQ7c329xOjSA8BcHeQGq75dkdmwVxxI8in0liFXPD2NEtl4S0= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:65c4:: with SMTP id e4mr9113228wrw.147.1586371308837; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:41:47 -0700 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: To: Janos Farkas , The IESG Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 18:41:52 -0000 On April 8, 2020 at 1:53:28 PM, Janos Farkas wrote: Janos: Hi! I have a couple of replies below. =C2=A0I defer to the responsible AD decide on the other points. Thanks!! Alvaro. ... > (2) "identify the appropriate Working Group" ... > [Janos Farkas] > The intention is along the lines you wrote: "the work will be done in the= WG > responsible for the technology". > In order to capture, I suggest the following changes. This also includes = the > change to address the comment from Magnus. > ... > OLD: > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification > of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate > Working Group for any needed extensions. > > NEW: > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification > of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate > Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. This change still says the same thing. Suggestion> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF cont= rol =C2=A0 =C2=A0plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identificatio= n =C2=A0 =C2=A0of any gaps in existing solutions. =C2=A0Any resulting work wi= ll be done =C2=A0 =C2=A0in the WG responsible for the technology. > (3) Is the intent to publish the "vertical requirements" documents as RFC= s? > Just wondering because it sounds like an open-ended effort. Suggestion: i= f > appropriate, scope the documents to industries that have new requirements > which have not been addressed already. > > [Janos Farkas] > "As needed, vertical requirements" comes from the original charter. > The WG developed RFC 8578 Deterministic Networking Use Cases. > This part is intended to be an enabler to be able to extend if needed. The original charter was written when the use cases, architecture, etc. had not been defined. My concern is not about extending the architecture or the solutions. It is about publishing requirements that have already been addressed. Here's a suggestion: OLD> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As needed, vertical requirements: This effort will deta= il the =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requirements for deterministic networks in various indu= stries that =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have previously not been documented or cannot be suppor= ted using =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0defined DetNet solutions. NEW> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As needed, vertical requirements: This effort will deta= il the =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requirements for deterministic networks in industries t= hat =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have previously not been documented and cannot be suppo= rted using =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0defined DetNet solutions. From nobody Wed Apr 8 11:45:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5533A1578 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:45:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V4m_C6ACHkVu for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.39.168]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4A643A1576 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw10.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.10]) by gproxy6.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90921E086B for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id MFgxjYJcCxgMWMFgxjJXF4; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:44:51 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Pc3ReBpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10:nop_ipv6 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10:nop_charset_1 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=bKNNLu3SmqEZgnlz-IkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=IKQvU5-mGa0A:10:nop_port a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=rpsECuEtHaW+cjLfcXZDs9r3cgeU4rC9S65Y+r2s2Ps=; b=MSBTWnzMZ7quNccEity7/34JMV 20aRDLSE12OhoP8K5erQGWQzDXESnOT7+DPkvET6mzsuNHPlGKq5MJVfzvjlP9Y/PyR+jbY0RpMhw 5AFsazNTcEr8f2eAKUXzjc6jk; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=13183 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jMFgx-001ot0-DS; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:44:51 -0600 To: Janos Farkas , Alvaro Retana , The IESG Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:44:48 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jMFgx-001ot0-DS X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:13183 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 4 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 18:45:01 -0000 On addition minor comment, see below. On 4/8/2020 1:53 PM, Janos Farkas wrote: > Hi Alvaro, > > Thank you for your review! > > Please note that the actually the change compared to the original charter is relatively small. Diff is shown here: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/detnet-recharter. Actually, the most important change is adding the Controller Plane. The rest are just smaller tweaks to enable extensions as/if needed. > > Please see more in-line marked with [Janos Farkas]. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alvaro Retana via Datatracker > Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 3:04 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) > > Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > (1) Given the close relationship with IEEE, I think we need external review. > > [Janos Farkas] > The changes in the charter are within the scope of IETF and do not affect the relationship with IEEE 802.1. In particular, the work is limited documenting how to use IETF control planes and identifying gaps. > > > (2) "identify the appropriate Working Group" > > This phrase shows up a couple of times. I was first worried that it was meant as a means for the WG to simply decide which WG (including itself) would do the work, but now I think it is meant as a dispatch-like function: "we need this work done, WG x seems like the right place." Is my interpretation correct? > Please try to clarify so that there is no confusion later...maybe something along the lines of "the work will be done in the WG responsible for the technology". > > [Janos Farkas] > The intention is along the lines you wrote: "the work will be done in the WG responsible for the technology". > In order to capture, I suggest the following changes. This also includes the change to address the comment from Magnus. > > OLD: > The working group will also document DetNet Controller Plane [1] approaches that reuse existing IETF solutions, such as Path Computation Element (PCE), and identify the appropriate Working Group for any extensions needed to support DetNet. Documents produced by the Working Group will be compatible with the work done in IEEE802.1 TSN and other IETF Working Groups. The Working Group's scope explicitly excludes modifications of transport protocols, OAM, Layer 3 forwarding, encapsulations, and control plane protocols, but it may define requirements for such modifications and identify the appropriate Working Group for any needed modifications. > > NEW: > The working group will also document DetNet Controller Plane [1] approaches that reuse existing IETF solutions, such as Path Computation Element (PCE), and identify the Working Group responsible for any extensions needed to support DetNet. Documents produced by the Working Group will be compatible with the work done in IEEE802.1 TSN and other IETF Working Groups. The Working Group's scope explicitly excludes modifications of transport protocols, OAM, Layer 3 forwarding, encapsulations, and control plane protocols, but it may discuss requirements for such modifications and the work will be done in the WG responsible for the technology. > > OLD: > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification > of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate > Working Group for any needed extensions. > > NEW: > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification > of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate > Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. > > > (3) Is the intent to publish the "vertical requirements" documents as RFCs? > Just wondering because it sounds like an open-ended effort. Suggestion: if appropriate, scope the documents to industries that have new requirements which have not been addressed already. > > [Janos Farkas] > "As needed, vertical requirements" comes from the original charter. > The WG developed RFC 8578 Deterministic Networking Use Cases. > This part is intended to be an enabler to be able to extend if needed. The WG has also published an architecture document https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8655 Lou > (4) s/OSPF, IS-IS/LSR > > [Janos Farkas] > Replace as suggested. > > > (5) Milestones would be nice. > > [Janos Farkas] > Milestones are being updated accordingly at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/detnet/about/. > > Thank you! > Best regards, > Janos > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > From nobody Wed Apr 8 11:46:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3AC33A157D; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:46:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dolby.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t9H5rw3VgJ9E; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam11on2135.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.236.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48ACD3A157C; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:46:51 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=KHmi78xAyNrBic9Yk3XSEZsHCcEhbT4WUNUfAkAAS3b/s2vGE+9LETQYtS72DUQgk/AnlHf/qpnas20PXeXYJL/CduszUh/GXM80Q0fV7EONnRd8HnsYjs+7dMMwXpm3yE/lmRETbEfhz+dEtTWG+f1jWiCOGUxanMsAeTDGYe4KGnfDbE47lidKiBqAnCCG9jV9r++1xbINKZxfCqvrXZh6zZVBAF26I/5JmMXhLDN36dI8yujZ2niCrqmu9tGfhdTi5onq2Nz2UcgVQO6zn1FQEK+blYEWeIzMn9mLDqNk42EahvyDSFR0eQhVq1XV/54FRwXdkKnYNlBZTkMXig== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=EO9r4kLLyoeizzhOJDOrYelJdDIi7tF1dJeziBhXVl8=; b=lhUh7gGBd6cpzALM+Vq4yOL2PCH9eHRzG6mNKqsDomLoWk5oJantCgvg+xBb6maaj1H4/+Y9X8CB8vd4lKlHbbsoi/zvmHt8GKVUYmDfQZMl1jysGM8WF2GaxoWqDACAYfQXVR7gXHLo7ASCdard+6XFdcmntLuRwBt8dmbe3rPvZRrVaw56Eda5VjdpnzUJYFI6uGTbfHk1imuKqhmyocZgcOoIFl9T5nBgvyEGyJ+FUWTEJaCrKGm3dUco4BY+wCBAmN3/7dlb0zJLC5kr+7oH+CjOjfaG/0LcOaF6eP1AIUSOqzkjLu3FM/l+kCzgEhc1JX9uAVBvs8IrY7wqMg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dolby.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dolby.com; dkim=pass header.d=dolby.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dolby.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=EO9r4kLLyoeizzhOJDOrYelJdDIi7tF1dJeziBhXVl8=; b=AXuncd01Umoqj/f7cXEB7rVWdqkz42aYzEuz984k/GjJ0A5dtXA3XBpHtzuXbOEspV1ZL51wwWnoxn1aQlfrtpbZXWRmjtFNHMmbRAdCwNBJlBKQussdbMBE8SjEnSQMqb9Yi9TmflDN6YvRyQtYCMrOqw4/IcsaovvyleS47+8= Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:14::12) by BYAPR06MB4039.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a02:81::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.16; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:46:45 +0000 Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::30b0:5798:2f36:54ff]) by BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::30b0:5798:2f36:54ff%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2878.018; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:46:44 +0000 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: Alvaro Retana , Janos Farkas , The IESG CC: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDBTSFReexhylPkGY9PZNZBHZuqhvhQyAgAANgYCAAAC0IA== Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:46:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [73.70.15.21] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b38aaa99-602d-4873-ed27-08d7dbed2fa0 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB4039: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 0367A50BB1 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; 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h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=r2QWhJStVyJr6rvjPnSZ8GHsaF/2OykEgBb4lVcnGIY=; b=hGoTTaN4qWQgxNnNNXkY5lT2MP Q5JooJpnBv8MKaP0FCYdjz968xWAXGusx7wwIF2Lk9D0UP8dKZEqCN7ZKoIpBMcYSCE4AATMkS1Hv ZBxMLu10dieFy3Vdqw6NWx8kT; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=20909 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jMFnE-001r15-26; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:51:20 -0600 To: Alvaro Retana , Janos Farkas , The IESG Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:51:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jMFnE-001r15-26 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:20909 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 9 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 18:51:23 -0000 Hi Alvaro, See below. On 4/8/2020 2:41 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: > On April 8, 2020 at 1:53:28 PM, Janos Farkas wrote: > > > Janos: > > Hi! > > I have a couple of replies below.  I defer to the responsible AD > decide on the other points. > > Thanks!! > > Alvaro. > > > > ... >> (2) "identify the appropriate Working Group" > ... >> [Janos Farkas] >> The intention is along the lines you wrote: "the work will be done in the WG >> responsible for the technology". >> In order to capture, I suggest the following changes. This also includes the >> change to address the comment from Magnus. >> > ... >> OLD: >> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control >> plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification >> of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate >> Working Group for any needed extensions. >> >> NEW: >> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control >> plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification >> of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate >> Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. > This change still says the same thing. > > Suggestion> >    Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control >    plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification >    of any gaps in existing solutions.  Any resulting work will be done >    in the WG responsible for the technology. While I don't feel strongly about this and certainly can live with the suggested phrasing, I feel like this might be overly constrictive.  Let's say for an extension is needed to a yang model defined in TEAS and the chairs of both groups, in consultation with the AD, decided that the work should be done in DetNet.  Would this be permitted?  I think TEAS would not want to transfer the responsibility of the larger work even though the specific gap would be filled by DetNet.  So, I'm left with a slight preference for the original text. >> (3) Is the intent to publish the "vertical requirements" documents as RFCs? >> Just wondering because it sounds like an open-ended effort. Suggestion: if >> appropriate, scope the documents to industries that have new requirements >> which have not been addressed already. >> >> [Janos Farkas] >> "As needed, vertical requirements" comes from the original charter. >> The WG developed RFC 8578 Deterministic Networking Use Cases. >> This part is intended to be an enabler to be able to extend if needed. > The original charter was written when the use cases, architecture, > etc. had not been defined. > > My concern is not about extending the architecture or the solutions. > It is about publishing requirements that have already been addressed. > Here's a suggestion: > > OLD> >      As needed, vertical requirements: This effort will detail the >      requirements for deterministic networks in various industries that >      have previously not been documented or cannot be supported using >      defined DetNet solutions. > > NEW> >      As needed, vertical requirements: This effort will detail the >      requirements for deterministic networks in industries that >      have previously not been documented and cannot be supported using >      defined DetNet solutions. This works for me. Thanks! Lou > From nobody Wed Apr 8 12:18:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD0453A167D; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:18:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jOFPZ9s9Sin; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com (mail-wm1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D51673A163E; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id y24so652419wma.4; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:18:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tcyk0iCqtgRuHZ3OgdkR/O8+xzleMpOx3NLaTloL1Dw=; b=P9kYDuge0uX17m8VWJgl+BlPMSXE9jHQ7N6pKMxn1NZO4BdOOzRF+L6VFCGd5tWnfH U/zCu07AbAIAnic7WDkZA+OO3+hjDhv7xeNz+ia8YjnKYjbkiFM5Erf+eZSammO384oy SuL4Nf/Vd60g39a2pLiET1ePVRvTD4FCNpobiJ81pGeO+DKLV+z/Xd0CVbadbUj65Hkk VwKaPvOHs+2TGKdjNwTPI6BTeL2dp9rZ+EkwLIC3vyh7pBS7rmRVCX1R1Z+cz0XlARsu CaApEzqWh9jKpT8FwC+WqEIpEKZwPMfdtUDwynIEcbjVinV/eS1GrxJL6Y04qvr1hUAs K8ew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tcyk0iCqtgRuHZ3OgdkR/O8+xzleMpOx3NLaTloL1Dw=; b=jVIKTMvowvCovhRYRY6yRD/Czqkt0f0UYyxj1jjoAZDzkpjUiFYeHcE2zgBPxJwX9N FJp9Ht3N7idcKaHHWBRxrAaQ3PVhCUXfDZzq0D39lbRkqKcdTnrzP1XLfCZqgHGOQ5Kp YFSsPQHyOWiLtoG7XAij04eDcMGEz2XtO3cdyPP5bMwyLXWBVL4CgQCBi4IQBSyJxQJs nN7/mVTS7SqYPuTD+ZEI+RlyJKD79EMklvjRcBwas31Ij6P05fjfVq4jYWzcTxFEPlCR ImUylV1Ew6/tP3YAP7uDysJqvcXETEDqwg6WiDkc9Z0lQKqwVckenBsznHLf5WvDKpt4 kAKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZ6giXcoatyRRfrnBRm4RGKTqx6DgRkZvMz6I/FtUSxyXqfwaPz htccClBTYWPTY8n1p72SqpjrFzFuekSUIoLZmusKEu5UMo8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIKir48J97i+qrcXhIIspinvCIkdal2Mpq0Ei6mJJj/zXhl6FOHkKZnsUdYbCvh0I4SH6xMMzV9IEYtuXUkXQw= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c92d:: with SMTP id h13mr6039892wml.120.1586373489000; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:18:08 -0700 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:18:08 -0700 Message-ID: To: The IESG , Lou Berger , Janos Farkas Cc: "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 19:18:22 -0000 On April 8, 2020 at 2:51:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: Lou: Hi! ... > >> NEW: > >> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > >> plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification > >> of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate > >> Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. > > This change still says the same thing. > > > > Suggestion> > > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > > plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification > > of any gaps in existing solutions. Any resulting work will be done > > in the WG responsible for the technology. > > While I don't feel strongly about this and certainly can live with the > suggested phrasing, I feel like this might be overly constrictive. > Let's say for an extension is needed to a yang model defined in TEAS and > the chairs of both groups, in consultation with the AD, decided that the > work should be done in DetNet. Would this be permitted? I think TEAS > would not want to transfer the responsibility of the larger work even > though the specific gap would be filled by DetNet. So, I'm left with a > slight preference for the original text. That original text talks about detnet identifying who will do the work. =C2=A0As you point out, that could also be coordinated between the chairs, AD, etc. In spring, for example, we used this text, which could be reused here (the last part): =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any modification of -or extension to- existing architectures, = data planes, =C2=A0 =C2=A0or control or management plane protocols should be carried out= in the WGs =C2=A0 =C2=A0responsible for the architecture, data plane, or control or ma= nagement plane =C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol being modified and in coordination with the SPRING WG= , but may be =C2=A0 =C2=A0done in SPRING WG after agreement with all the relevant WG cha= irs and =C2=A0 =C2=A0responsible Area Directors. Alvaro. 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To: Alvaro Retana , The IESG , Lou Berger , Janos Farkas CC: "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDBTSFReexhylPkGY9PZNZBHZuqhvhQyAgAANgYCAAAKpAIAAB38AgAABq+A= Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 19:27:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [73.70.15.21] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b25a3a62-aa66-40e3-19e2-08d7dbf2cfef x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB3991: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0367A50BB1 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; 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"detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000094791f05a2cc852f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 19:29:46 -0000 --00000000000094791f05a2cc852f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" FWIW, #4 works for me. Thanks! Alvaro. On April 8, 2020 at 3:27:03 PM, Grossman, Ethan A. (eagros@dolby.com) wrote: Hmm, now that I look closer, the proposed text also brings back the term "control plane" vs "controller plane" (union of management and control planes), so some revision is needed. I took a swing at it below, #4, combining the SPRING text with our existing text. Ethan. 1, previous original) This work includes identification of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate Working Group for any needed extensions. 2, next original ) This work includes identification of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. 3, Alvaro proposal) This work will document how to use IETF control plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification of any gaps in existing solutions. Any resulting work will be done in the WG responsible for the technology. 4) (Incorporating SPRING text, adapted) This work will document how to use IETF controller plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification of any gaps in existing solutions. Any modification to controller plane protocols to address identified gaps should be carried out in their associated WGs, but may be done in DetNet if agreed to by the relevant WG chairs and responsible Area Directors. ----------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Retana Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:18 PM To: The IESG ; Lou Berger ; Janos Farkas < janos.farkas@ericsson.com> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org Subject: Re: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) On April 8, 2020 at 2:51:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: Lou: Hi! ... > >> NEW: > >> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > >> plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes > >> identification of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying > >> the appropriate Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. > > This change still says the same thing. > > > > Suggestion> > > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > > plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification of > > any gaps in existing solutions. Any resulting work will be done in > > the WG responsible for the technology. > > While I don't feel strongly about this and certainly can live with the > suggested phrasing, I feel like this might be overly constrictive. > Let's say for an extension is needed to a yang model defined in TEAS > and the chairs of both groups, in consultation with the AD, decided > that the work should be done in DetNet. Would this be permitted? I > think TEAS would not want to transfer the responsibility of the larger > work even though the specific gap would be filled by DetNet. So, I'm > left with a slight preference for the original text. That original text talks about detnet identifying who will do the work. As you point out, that could also be coordinated between the chairs, AD, etc. In spring, for example, we used this text, which could be reused here (the last part): Any modification of -or extension to- existing architectures, data planes, or control or management plane protocols should be carried out in the WGs responsible for the architecture, data plane, or control or management plane protocol being modified and in coordination with the SPRING WG, but may be done in SPRING WG after agreement with all the relevant WG chairs and responsible Area Directors. Alvaro. --00000000000094791f05a2cc852f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
FWIW, #4 works for me.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

On April 8, 2= 020 at 3:27:03 PM, Grossman, Ethan A. (= eagros@dolby.com) wrote:

Hmm, now that I look closer, the proposed tex= t also brings back the term "control plane" vs "controller p= lane" (union of management and control planes), so some revision is ne= eded. I took a swing at it below, #4, combining the SPRING text with our ex= isting text. =20
Ethan.

1, previous original) This work includes identification of any gaps in = existing solutions and identifying the appropriate Working Group for any ne= eded extensions.

2, next original ) This work includes identification of any gaps in exi= sting solutions and identifying the appropriate Working Group responsible f= or any needed extensions.

3, Alvaro proposal) This work will document how to use IETF control pla= ne solutions to support DetNet, including the identification of any gaps in= existing solutions. Any resulting work will be done in the WG responsibl= e for the technology.

4) (Incorporating SPRING text, adapted) This work will document how = to use IETF controller plane solutions to support DetNet, including the ide= ntification of any gaps in existing solutions. Any modification to control= ler plane protocols to address identified gaps should be carried out in the= ir associated WGs, but may be done in DetNet if agreed to by the relevant W= G chairs and responsible Area Directors.

-----------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Alvaro Retana <areta= na.ietf@gmail.com> =20
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:18 PM
To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>= ; Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net&g= t;; Janos Farkas <janos.far= kas@ericsson.com>
Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01= -00: (with COMMENT)

On April 8, 2020 at 2:51:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote:


Lou:

Hi!


...
> >> NEW:
> >> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF= control =20
> >> plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes =20
> >> identification of any gaps in existing solutions and iden= tifying =20
> >> the appropriate Working Group responsible for any needed = extensions.
> > This change still says the same thing.
> >
> > Suggestion>
> > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF con= trol =20
> > plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identificati= on of =20
> > any gaps in existing solutions. Any resulting work will be do= ne in =20
> > the WG responsible for the technology.
>
> While I don't feel strongly about this and certainly can live = with the =20
> suggested phrasing, I feel like this might be overly constrictive.
> Let's say for an extension is needed to a yang model defined i= n TEAS =20
> and the chairs of both groups, in consultation with the AD, decide= d =20
> that the work should be done in DetNet. Would this be permitted? I= =20
> think TEAS would not want to transfer the responsibility of the la= rger =20
> work even though the specific gap would be filled by DetNet. So, I= 'm =20
> left with a slight preference for the original text.

That original text talks about detnet identifying who will do the work.= =C2=A0 As you point out, that could also be coordinated between the chairs,= AD, etc.

In spring, for example, we used this text, which could be reused here (= the last part):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Any modification of -or extension to- existing architectur= es, data planes,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0or control or management plane protocols should be carried= out in the WGs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0responsible for the architecture, data plane, or control o= r management plane
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol being modified and in coordination with the SPRIN= G WG, but may be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0done in SPRING WG after agreement with all the relevant WG= chairs and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0responsible Area Directors.


Alvaro.
<= /body> --00000000000094791f05a2cc852f-- From nobody Wed Apr 8 15:04:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F943A18CB for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:04:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GLrDnyZQb-_s for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16D873A1885 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw11.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.11]) by gproxy5.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2D21407AB for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 16:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id MIoFjNlO0VKjoMIoGjsgW9; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:04:36 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=ONYJIxSB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10:nop_ipv6 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10:nop_charset_1 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=4rkZ4jSNxif651GhySMA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=-RoEEKskQ1sA:10:nop_election2020_name_body DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0chZZuYA4eONpY9AmWt1Dl8gK2WXipOUJqJRbNxW67Y=; b=ElrY3rMc1Jx1UgU502WqGUs0NJ gQHXwC/eH2r8FOB46Y8fCECEh5O0/wYCDQ8vTnvA9x2vLQtjgyFGRRneA/qHkoxaPmxIILBLhbzuf eSWXwWn0HL4qI8QT4CXCVX3dC; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=35433 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jMIoF-002tgO-QG; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:04:35 -0600 To: Alvaro Retana , The IESG , Janos Farkas Cc: "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <8e79097d-006c-b414-4ba1-73c68786fdc5@labn.net> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 18:04:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jMIoF-002tgO-QG X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:35433 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 22:04:50 -0000 Hi Alvaro, The spring phrasing would address my reservation. Thanks, Lou Lou On 4/8/2020 3:18 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: > On April 8, 2020 at 2:51:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: > > > Lou: > > Hi! > > > ... >>>> NEW: >>>> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control >>>> plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification >>>> of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate >>>> Working Group responsible for any needed extensions. >>> This change still says the same thing. >>> >>> Suggestion> >>> Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control >>> plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification >>> of any gaps in existing solutions. Any resulting work will be done >>> in the WG responsible for the technology. >> While I don't feel strongly about this and certainly can live with the >> suggested phrasing, I feel like this might be overly constrictive. >> Let's say for an extension is needed to a yang model defined in TEAS and >> the chairs of both groups, in consultation with the AD, decided that the >> work should be done in DetNet. Would this be permitted? I think TEAS >> would not want to transfer the responsibility of the larger work even >> though the specific gap would be filled by DetNet. So, I'm left with a >> slight preference for the original text. > That original text talks about detnet identifying who will do the > work.  As you point out, that could also be coordinated between the > chairs, AD, etc. > > In spring, for example, we used this text, which could be reused here > (the last part): > >    Any modification of -or extension to- existing architectures, data planes, >    or control or management plane protocols should be carried out in the WGs >    responsible for the architecture, data plane, or control or management plane >    protocol being modified and in coordination with the SPRING WG, but may be >    done in SPRING WG after agreement with all the relevant WG chairs and >    responsible Area Directors. > > > Alvaro. > From nobody Wed Apr 8 23:39:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6BF3A0C8F; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 23:39:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158641436125.2478.11784850947087112876@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 23:39:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 06:39:22 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't particularly mind the "vertical requirements" bit; "cannot be supported using defined DetNet solutions" does serve to limit scope. I do think that clarity around "identify the appropriate WG" would be good, though. A couple nits: Data plane: This work will document how to use IP and/or MPLS, and related OAM, to support a data plane method of flow identification and packet forwarding over Layer 3. Other IETF defined data plane technologies may also be used. nit: "IP and/or MPLS, and related OAM, [...] Other IETF defined data plane technologies" is a somewhat awkward construction. Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate Working Group for any needed extensions. nit: maybe "for developing"? 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Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:36:13 +0000 From: Magnus Westerlund To: Janos Farkas , "iesg@ietf.org" , "David.Black@dell.com" CC: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDZrOBNWKobiKA0+xYA2k0AwFOqhvPSuAgAANFYCAADjTAIAA9Y+A Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:36:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158634614765.1934.1227033307589896413@ietfa.amsl.com> <9e348474843a90e59b0bbecba6924404bca29a70.camel@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Evolution 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [158.174.118.23] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8bb54ea5-8010-484f-92ef-08d7dc610fd6 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR0702MB3564: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-GJvLeKkEQHULQAMg0hly" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8bb54ea5-8010-484f-92ef-08d7dc610fd6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Apr 2020 08:36:13.0464 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: v7/LpKa/FYsqaNKaXpc4ZcX2jet/kqb5lVewRj7Q7wjqdIZmBG2ceFTHUNC+LaWqoYe7uEeyDaCK5JhM3b5jWLv9wRae33V246tYXp0aXIs= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0702MB3564 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 08:36:19 -0000 --=-GJvLeKkEQHULQAMg0hly Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! /Magnus On Wed, 2020-04-08 at 17:57 +0000, Janos Farkas wrote: > Hi Magnus, >=20 > Thank you for your review! >=20 > David, > Thank you for the suggestion to resolve. >=20 > I agree that we should make this change. I've included it in the suggeste= d=20 > changes to the relevant text in response to Alvaro's comment. >=20 > Thank you, > Best regards, > Janos >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Magnus Westerlund > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:34 PM > To: iesg@ietf.org; David.Black@dell.com > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on=20 > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) >=20 > On Wed, 2020-04-08 at 13:47 +0000, Black, David wrote: > > Hi Magnus, > >=20 > > There's an overriding "less is more" concern here, especially around= =20 > > transport > > protocol modifications. To the extent that existing transport protocol= s=20 > > have > > to be modified to be used with DetNet, those modifications make it more > > difficult to adapt applications that use those protocols to take advant= age=20 > > of > > DetNet. > >=20 > > In the revised charter, would "define" -> "discuss" help? >=20 > Yes. I think as long as there are no implied assumption that the hgiher l= ayers > are bound to strictly follow these requirements it would be fine. >=20 > /Magnus >=20 > >=20 > > Thanks, --David (Transport Technical Advisor to detnet WG) > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: detnet On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund= via > > > Datatracker > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:42 AM > > > To: The IESG > > > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > > > Subject: [Detnet] Magnus Westerlund's No Objection on charter-ietf-de= tnet- > > > 01- > > > 00: (with COMMENT) > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > >=20 > > > Magnus Westerlund has entered the following ballot position for > > > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection > > >=20 > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut th= is > > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > > COMMENT: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > >=20 > > > I share some of Alvaro's concern regarding the dispatching. I think t= he > > > requirements angle is also interesting here. I fully expect DETNET to > > > produce > > > reasonable requirements on for example a transport protocol as percei= ved > > > from > > > the DETNET WGs. After a suitable WG has been identified I would expec= t=20 > > > that > > > significant discussion over these requirements, likely resulting i= =20 > > > changes, > > > would occur. I hope this view is shared, but the usage of the word de= fine, > > > could be interpret as a bit more strict than what I expect was the= =20 > > > intention > > > here. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > detnet mailing list > > > detnet@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet --=20 Cheers Magnus Westerlund=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --=-GJvLeKkEQHULQAMg0hly Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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IESG" Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <158643299004.17066.14403941463020283647@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 04:49:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 11:49:51 -0000 Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it clear how the "Data flow information model" will be defined? Is the plan for this to be done using an adhoc format, or a specific information modelling language such as UML? Should this be specified in the charter text at all? 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f1a61f39-3fce-4b29-6250-08d7dc81e68d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Apr 2020 12:31:17.1582 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: AkEdktANqfhSGUBMWImBYgcaAWL60TUTITuKI+In+Kj/npRvbEMOkQS5eb5wWRA6kbrd3e8afsgRUeG/3WnoGHR1DUnZ7DlztQiFxO/JX9s= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB5792 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 12:31:42 -0000 Hi Benjamin, Thank you for your review! Please see in line. -----Original Message----- From: detnet On Behalf Of Benjamin Kaduk via Data= tracker Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 8:39 AM To: The IESG Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-0= 0: (with COMMENT) Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email= addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc= tory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't particularly mind the "vertical requirements" bit; "cannot be suppo= rted using defined DetNet solutions" does serve to limit scope. I do think that clarity around "identify the appropriate WG" would be good,= though. [Janos Farkas]=20 I hope the updated text is clearer: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/IfEJfMaLP79ar0Cc0d6hzL75HlA/=20 A couple nits: Data plane: This work will document how to use IP and/or MPLS, and related OAM, to support a data plane method of flow identification and packet forwarding over Layer 3. Other IETF defined data plane technologies may also be used. nit: "IP and/or MPLS, and related OAM, [...] Other IETF defined data plane = technologies" is a somewhat awkward construction. [Janos Farkas]=20 To be honest, I have not idea how to improve, what change to make. Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate Working Group for any needed extensions. nit: maybe "for developing"? This part has been updated: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/IfEJfMaLP79ar0Cc0d6hzL75HlA/ Best regards, Janos From nobody Thu Apr 9 05:37:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6215F3A0AB7; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 05:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.267 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.267 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.168, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7nnYPo4Q5X2l; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 05:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am6eur05on2042.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.22.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BFEA3A0A56; 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Please see below. -----Original Message----- From: detnet On Behalf Of Robert Wilton via Datat= racker Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:50 PM To: The IESG Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00= : (with COMMENT) Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email= addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc= tory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it clear how the "Data flow information model" will be defined? Is the = plan for this to be done using an adhoc format, or a specific information m= odelling language such as UML? Should this be specified in the charter tex= t at all? [Janos Farkas]=20 The flow information model part is unchanged from the original charter. Dif= f is shown here: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/detnet-recharter. The WG has a flow information model draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-detnet-flow-information-model/, it had WGLC https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/kNVLtrC2Cj6LhxVAycGkGRMaG7s/. = The work needs to be finished, that's why we left it in the Charter. 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Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:54:55 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Janos Farkas , The IESG CC: "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDmUKlFnvf8c6YUuv/iWY/z9hOqhwunoAgAAEkRA= Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:54:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158643299004.17066.14403941463020283647@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.15.79.32] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cd8bce7b-1544-4294-0290-08d7dc85339c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2SPR01MB0017: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0368E78B5B x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cd8bce7b-1544-4294-0290-08d7dc85339c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Apr 2020 12:54:55.0438 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ZbdsFfnzW78+tyY1ufjenA2omrqtvnBA9HUzaUGNXJkIszI1xSYZL7EhU+X9QAkA0pTwzXkGzv5iooeXROsO9A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2SPR01MB0017 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 12:55:04 -0000 Hi Janos, That's fine then. Thanks for clarifying. Regards, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Janos Farkas > Sent: 09 April 2020 13:38 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; The IESG > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet= - > 01-00: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Hi Robert, >=20 > Thank you for your review! >=20 > Please see below. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Robert Wilton via > Datatracker > Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:50 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01- > 00: (with COMMENT) >=20 > Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Is it clear how the "Data flow information model" will be defined? Is th= e > plan for this to be done using an adhoc format, or a specific information > modelling language such as UML? Should this be specified in the charter > text at all? >=20 > [Janos Farkas] > The flow information model part is unchanged from the original charter. > Diff is shown here: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/detnet-recharter. > The WG has a flow information model draft: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-flow-information- > model/, it had WGLC > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/kNVLtrC2Cj6LhxVAycGkGRMaG7s/= . > The work needs to be finished, that's why we left it in the Charter. >=20 > Best regards, > Janos From nobody Thu Apr 9 07:01:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2B83A0BCA; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:01:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aD_zOneOl_Xd; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 981DA3A0BAF; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id f13so5456372wrm.13; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 07:01:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7/YbPiegNnhL0YNyfabGFYhLzR3VmG+tLqT+Bua9M4Y=; b=Kx53PVsGJbTkU+vYaozWupY8tUYMewZoetnngrOumQLM0+fXJYHQ1AoFR0fAOB1YHS H9x85NGM9HEsQ0o8dDbYY7NduDQotwiMJhkhMZrzPh4H1BoDAXDCAfRUPLiPDDSLjh0F U2b3e0xLT4SUpQf2SXOdpb8BcSR1mTB0L6RPPNqsLOmOy8O9mujbBa5nq41zu+3DriTa IwmoOIPFITcV/8mFNsCKNHl9qxZDbf9+xl9ZMWqAT3CWVcNPMY5JIsdhBrzni72HaP5u UoL2kfzdBIwjXHuNH9zmfEahwJLEXultnpb2sI/FpEGXbXTFmM6ZBPpOK01DVIMRDZOh JUPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7/YbPiegNnhL0YNyfabGFYhLzR3VmG+tLqT+Bua9M4Y=; b=RaS1+ucmXQ3U/7sRQ7tRh4O6sCEnMQdw4306JzY3ooor7erPnve9RhrmGxl7KBHyWk p6p9wNDOYfP9/wG1WXFFVMnuNlMPM/R0yaltunrUq+dU6El907GHS9UUfuMGV9XrI1Je pB7no5LmU58qCrkoiOxRk4sK1BMaV4cnXrJT20FduncDiC0wKU71DDCMOgSj4/Px3Res OcukQw1Oz/a5962HeRequufth4OvRfjUzo5zLNz24nyVZArD2zk0adrd3bMU7NxBVHc4 45+fWVA59PQJ6HwbnmrtGHSFFuMyPQCdbTE9Sy60BhZV6QJihWAoX2TkcZmh2N1e6Ek+ T/Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZyZeUi4Y5/0qvkjSFgVxnysD/dDDBWw7WdHlbjeHyrkkR8BIo+ +S5RrtWiIt8u95UlKE4jcNatsO3E4m/BC79gY4U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIh2gMiIG1x0IvB8zx/NWoSxc7SrRnq0VV5XMBeMajRyg6NNDg81B4kIo63ySlwhcLTO0Omct0f4w93Gj5jRCI= X-Received: by 2002:adf:efc2:: with SMTP id i2mr14065570wrp.420.1586440869928; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 07:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:01:09 -0700 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:01:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: Janos Farkas , Lou Berger , "Grossman, Ethan A." , The IESG Cc: "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 14:01:15 -0000 On April 9, 2020 at 8:27:16 AM, Janos Farkas wrote: Janos: Hi! This looks good to me..there's just a small inconsistency: ... > Groups. The Working Group's scope explicitly excludes modifications of > transport protocols, OAM, Layer 3 forwarding, encapsulations, and > control plane protocols, but it may discuss requirements for such > modifications and the work will be done in the WG responsible for the > technology. ... > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF Controller > Plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification > of any gaps in existing solutions. Any modification to Controller > Plane protocols to address identified gaps should be carried out > in their associated WGs, but may be done in DetNet if agreed to by > the relevant WG chairs and responsible Area Directors. The first piece of text says that control plane (and other) work will be done somewhere else...the second piece says that modifications to controller plane (which includes the control plane) may be done in detnet, if agreed... Just a small nit. Thanks!! Alvaro. From nobody Thu Apr 9 08:17:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A29EE3A0994; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:17:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Duke via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Martin Duke Message-ID: <158644544352.6193.14077092567460276762@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 08:17:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Martin Duke's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 15:17:24 -0000 Martin Duke has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry for the late review, but if OAM is in scope, the WG should also coordinate with IPPM. From nobody Thu Apr 9 09:21:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9353A0BCD for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bklXgBWP6spN for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.33.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 671983A0C4E for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 09:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw14.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.14]) by gproxy8.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4562C1ABE6A for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id MZvYjuaJKKxvrMZvYjuYHF; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:21:16 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=F7Z5iJpN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=HLvPDLHGFjgA:10:nop_election2020_name_subject a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=174xjjHKAAAA:20 a=yQ8PMKv_8WS6XfYEt0sA:9 a=jYf0fX8X0gGj0f3r:21 a=eUqNm7FvgRDXZ7nT:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=-RoEEKskQ1sA:10:nop_election2020_name_body a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=GksCSPTMlO85NiwEf4oA:9 a=L9VTU3-YjYErFBt5:21 a=lmCq9PpFArSEGuaA:21 a=5mHsAXZvcR917wsv:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10:nop_mshtml_css_classes a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10:nop_msword_html a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10:nop_css_in_html a=Z5ABNNGmrOfJ6cZ5bIyy:22 a=bWyr8ysk75zN3GCy5bjg:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5vSfgbwiPeQUPwFWKstwkGET6ScgbugH0uEeniyjiRw=; b=CU28oKqokE6RhMaOtVxoehLlKp NEWUr4BIaaNg6nTgYtzn8q+CZhHbv9qAknywgdNyk41GgCYk6rvsYmnstJ5kzUf9vh3gp+7wjfy0/ waIdJpzceqjKmxdJJtWIXNwAC; Received: from pool-173-48-105-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net ([173.48.105.206]:62545 helo=FedykLabn) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jMZvH-003yQC-Lh; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:20:59 -0600 From: "Don Fedyk" To: "'DetNet WG'" Cc: , "'DetNet Chairs'" , "'Janos Farkas'" , =?utf-8?B?J+ycoOyXsOyyoCc=?= , "'Lou Berger'" , =?utf-8?Q?'Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A'?= , "'Mach Chen'" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01d60e8a$db981060$92c83120$@labn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01D60E69.54867060" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdYOisUw5pcJqro/S2OFApQ3oRpnXQ== Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 173.48.105.206 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1jMZvH-003yQC-Lh X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-173-48-105-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net (FedykLabn) [173.48.105.206]:62545 X-Source-Auth: dfedyk@labn.net X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Comparing DetNet YANG models - Application Part X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 16:21:47 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01D60E69.54867060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi=20 =20 Here is some more details from my notes on the DetNet Applications YANG = comparisons.=20 =20 Differences between these YANG Models comparing the tree 1. Current Detnet YANG Model ietf-detnet-config v5 2. Prototype Detnet YANG proposed by me in Github repo.=20 https://github.com/detnet-wg/draft-ietf-detnet-yang/files/4250955/ietf-de= tnet-flow.tree.txt =20 It looks like the two trees have different starting assumptions.=20 Here is my starting Assumptions:=20 * Much of the YANG for DetNet exists and we are pulling together = existing pieces.=20 The Detnet Architecture models the Application as a source and = destination of traffic.=20 * My assumption is DetNET does not need to model the complete = application =E2=80=93 just the DetNet portion. =20 Consider a voice over IP application. This is an application that = receives voice data perhaps in analog or digital form.=20 There are parameters about encoding the voice, the service the control = plane etc. that are external to DetNet. =20 The Voice application adds an IP header to the packet.=20 Another example would be a voice application that is on a remote node = and now the IP arrives a the DetNet domain edges. =20 It is an application because it is using a non DetNET header (or a = DetNet header form a different domain) . This ignores interworking = scenarios between DetNet domains. They are out of scope for now. =20 Given that what does and Application do? It identifies flows by labels. = Then it assigns traffic parameters and forwards to the Service Sub = layer.=20 On application ingress(in-segment). =20 Where the DetNet Application comes in:=20 At some point in the application there is an IP flow with certain = bandwidth and delay characteristics for the voice packets.=20 This is the starting point for the DetNET application YANG.=20 A ingress stream of packet with a header and traffic characteristics. (Also an egress stream of packets with the native header IP).=20 In other words the application may be the generator of traffic but the = part DetNet needs to model already has a packet with a headers. Similarly we never pull off the full header on egress even though a part = of the application may well do this.=20 The egress just passes the packet back to the application. =20 Functionally the DetNet application portion is identifying flows to be = carried by DetNet on ingress. The flows arrive in a native format. It is forwarding on those flow back to there native format.=20 =20 Looking at the models: For the model for 2.=20 On ingress I match on Flow model parameters (IP and MPLS) (Ethernet was = intentionally not in my models but would be added one we agree).=20 And there are traffic parameters that are configured for this flow. =20 In the model I currently call both of these interfaces. I=E2=80=99m = assuming some could be internal interfaces and others are physical = interfaces or virtual interfacing on physical ports.=20 On egress from the application there is nothing to do but follow the = next hop base on the native header.=20 An Egress packet arriving from the service-sub layer is now the original = packet header because the service and forwarding sub-layer have = terminated and we have the packet as it was formatted by the far end = applications.=20 =20 Comparing Model 1) on Application ingress=20 Application IP matching In-segment. In 2 )I reused RFC 8519 as a matching input. (Not all fields are used = just those mentioned in Detnet Flow Document) In 1 )there are parts of RFC 8519 but it seems to jump to ports without = discriminating on protocol (TCP-UDP) There are also fields that go beyond the flow model. It also seems to be = tied right into the application=20 =20 Application MPLS header On application ingress(in-segment) In1 There is a stack from RFC 8294 in the non-platform label space and = only a single label under the platform label space.=20 In 2) I reused RFC 8294 MPLS label stack under the interface or platform = label space. =20 On application egress (out-segment)=20 In 2) We have an egress next hop. This the application address space IP = or MPLS.=20 This is straight from a routed next hop. The forwarding sublayer has remove any DetNet sublayer header form this = domain.=20 =20 In 1) I think there is a lot that does not need to be there.=20 To me it looks like the model assumes it was the whole application. (It = it=E2=80=99s trying to adjust packet headers) It has a Detnet header =E2=80=93 the application should not see a Detnet = header It should not see layers.=20 It has refences to the service and forwarding sub-layers. -Why? =20 Some Specific Items In 2) I use an Application name and added AppID to application = (serviceID)s . My feeling was although any application can uniquely = identified by name a system generated ID would be useful. However that = we can pulled the AppID and leave it to vendors. The flow document uses = identifier.=20 =20 In 2) the term TSN is used. We agreed on the call it should be Ethernet. = =20 Please feel free to comment. We can go over these points in the next = call.=20 Cheers Don=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01D60E69.54867060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi

 

Here is some = more details from my notes on the DetNet Applications YANG comparisons. =

 

Differences between these YANG Models comparing the = tree

  1. Current Detnet YANG Model ietf-detnet-config v5
  2. Prototype Detnet YANG proposed by me in Github repo. =

https://github.com/detnet-wg/draft-ietf-detne= t-yang/files/4250955/ietf-detnet-flow.tree.txt

 

It = looks like the two trees have different starting assumptions. =

Here is my starting Assumptions: =

  • Much of the YANG for DetNet exists and we are pulling together = existing pieces.

The Detnet = Architecture models the Application as a source and destination of = traffic.

  • My assumption is DetNET does not need to model the complete = application =E2=80=93 just the DetNet portion.  =

Consider a voice over IP = application.  This is an application that receives voice data = perhaps in analog or digital form.

There are parameters about encoding the voice, the = service the control plane etc. that are external to DetNet.  =

The Voice application adds an IP = header to the packet.

Another = example would be a voice application that is on a remote node and now = the IP arrives a the DetNet domain edges. 

It is an application because it is using a non DetNET = header (or a DetNet header form a different domain) .  This ignores = interworking scenarios between DetNet domains. They are out of scope for = now.   

Given that = what does and Application do? It identifies flows by labels. Then it = assigns traffic parameters and forwards to the Service Sub layer. =

On application = ingress(in-segment).

 

Where the = DetNet Application comes in:

At some = point in the application there is an IP flow with certain bandwidth and = delay characteristics for the voice packets.

This is the starting point for the DetNET application = YANG.

A ingress stream of packet = with a header and traffic characteristics.

(Also an egress stream of packets with the native = header IP).

In other words the = application may be the generator of traffic but the part DetNet needs to = model already has a packet with a headers.

Similarly we never pull off the full header on egress = even though a part of the application may well do this. =

The egress just passes the packet = back to the application.

 

Functionally = the DetNet application portion is identifying flows to be carried by = DetNet on ingress.

The flows arrive = in a native format.

It is forwarding = on those flow back to there native format.

 

Looking at = the models:

For the model for 2. =

On ingress I match on Flow model = parameters (IP and MPLS)  (Ethernet was intentionally not in my = models but would be added one we agree).

And there are traffic parameters that are configured = for this flow. 

In the model I = currently call both of these interfaces. I=E2=80=99m assuming some could = be internal interfaces and others are physical interfaces or virtual = interfacing on physical ports.

On = egress from the application there is nothing to do but follow the next = hop base on the native header.

An = Egress packet arriving from the service-sub layer is now the original = packet header because the service and forwarding sub-layer have = terminated and we have the packet as it was formatted by the far end = applications.

 

Comparing = Model 1) on Application ingress

Application IP matching In-segment.

In 2 )I reused RFC 8519 as a matching input.  = (Not all fields are used just those mentioned in Detnet Flow = Document)

In 1 )there are parts of = RFC 8519 but it seems to jump to ports without discriminating on = protocol (TCP-UDP)

There are also = fields that go beyond the flow model. It also seems to be tied right = into the application

 

Application = MPLS header

On application = ingress(in-segment)

In1 There is a = stack from RFC 8294 in the non-platform label space and only a single = label under the platform label space.

In 2) I reused RFC 8294 MPLS label stack under the = interface or platform label space.

 

On = application egress (out-segment)

In = 2) We have an egress next hop.  This the application address space = IP or MPLS.

This is straight from a = routed next hop.

The forwarding = sublayer has remove any DetNet sublayer header form this domain. =

 

In 1) I think there is a lot that does not need to be = there.

To me it looks like the model = assumes it was the whole application. (It it=E2=80=99s trying to adjust = packet headers)

It has a Detnet = header =E2=80=93 the application should not see a Detnet header It = should not see layers.

It has = refences to the service and forwarding sub-layers. = -Why?

 

Some Specific Items

In 2) I use an Application name and added  = AppID  to application (serviceID)s .  My feeling was although = any application can uniquely identified by name a system generated ID = would be useful.  However that we can pulled the AppID and leave it = to vendors.  The flow document uses identifier.

 

In 2) the = term TSN is used. We agreed on the call it should be Ethernet. =

 

Please feel free to comment.  We can go over = these points in the  next call.

Cheers

Don =

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01D60E69.54867060-- From nobody Thu Apr 9 11:22:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE77E3A08B7 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:22:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158645655976.441.3236790017140781109@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 11:22:39 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Milestones changed for detnet WG X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 18:22:40 -0000 Changed milestone "Initial OAM WG document", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit security considerations document for publications", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Adopt controller plane framework", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit TSN data plane documents (Standards track)", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Adopt DetNet IP OAM document", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit first OAM document for publication", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit controller plane framework", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit DetNet IP OAM document", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/detnet/about/ From nobody Thu Apr 9 11:47:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3220B3A0C09; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:47:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dolby.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fxpE7btR_9xq; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10on2134.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.92.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A002B3A0BF1; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:47:28 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=NBej2pfqFqPZa8OOl3jwSSRfzOL3ggywPSKU0QPI7EBnNk+SOshel6LggRXnmVQP+WIsaQDn3x7Mr8kr7z/n986L0Cqtpywl1wc/TEwkaqdHkhwzvCpOXB1gaQGvoYlpdbLw+R6XwzHhWyQh6hh9YEV2AwUkRXnN4orJDQTUvDKmSZS8BWJoOUBbJ9gNiiVldcw2ItdiEszbVhPWA/+nfiGi4KQsu6AbN78XzRjefbvRCl76eX+4jyKmzfVsd1rbF5Ays3F5vjLls9sZFFnki29U6rRIDU7mdgHw44FOsTRTJgfNbJh0jOaUsBW8sW10hiCKTsNBQ/tkucg91/70Rw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=eq0sDKDTqmhw9SS8lMbQ+ay6Fi2EuWv+QRsHvfqjMtI=; b=dnQZ8PiGk6+8zgUYrcTQnbz7LXQeJOa/CxGnYP6qZ8Hy8au0hHQQ4cd2AqPXzvC5gd0lBDjaTqtPqdXKkySczQGRU11MhAP7glMMlmwi4qFz6kNomTCoBtnacOei1sfQFlOId5PLTkGwxDJQ6aJHYKWtNLzaoJUJpdu7FIka3ZSWY3KyPC1GagzaxLdfDBqzsgLni6w0qT0+KJiP3fpzfW3pd+0tvniz9tfncSmG87ej1BXxtyOM4C1ml+AsiF8O6GLmVpkWRbuQwTWVLW13rYGlOpDUWUrmAiwNFiIRTTAUnrKpg8AlH76MUFTeQsFHtdK6fRs24Ar0vunYA2B01g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dolby.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dolby.com; dkim=pass header.d=dolby.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dolby.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=eq0sDKDTqmhw9SS8lMbQ+ay6Fi2EuWv+QRsHvfqjMtI=; b=DxxHwv6DkcwjvjVrgR5abElMKOKMaa6FGV7X8jNwc1dT8BFfnFKuap5EogaLypbmYhvA6+TypESbhomi+QBAFFDEhU1xwor/WJFMlra039d6LjwhUt46YolSF17Gecsc3Ua8z+vIbRglzJF8vR2TZlRfTsyuhMgZ1z2OzX5XSbk= Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:14::12) by BYAPR06MB4055.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a02:81::30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.19; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:47:26 +0000 Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::30b0:5798:2f36:54ff]) by BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::30b0:5798:2f36:54ff%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2878.018; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:47:25 +0000 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: Alvaro Retana , Janos Farkas , Lou Berger , The IESG CC: "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHWDBTSFReexhylPkGY9PZNZBHZuqhvhQyAgAANgYCAAAKpAIAAB38AgAABq+CAAAGPgIABHE6AgAAaPICAAE5dwA== Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:47:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <158617822305.682.14809689046100079660@ietfa.amsl.com> <3f119715-75c6-ff2a-d3c3-5340f17de572@labn.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [73.70.15.21] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8db44a51-db1c-448f-7ad3-08d7dcb67287 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB4055: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6108; x-forefront-prvs: 0368E78B5B x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: dolby.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8db44a51-db1c-448f-7ad3-08d7dcb67287 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Apr 2020 18:47:25.9224 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 05408d25-cd0d-40c8-8962-5462de64a318 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9TQvxVCrmyQT+Gs+oUSOprjNxnYSSUf7XptCjvj33rqaDApzDaJV6hMw40qeOGkZu8q1EWmUJDcqimDua+9JHA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR06MB4055 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 18:47:32 -0000 SGkgSmFub3MsIA0KSGVyZSBpcyBzb21lIHByb3Bvc2VkIHRleHQgZm9yIHJlLXVzaW5nIHRoZSBj b250cm9sbGVyIHBsYW5lIHRleHQgdG8gYWRkcmVzcyBBbHZhcm8ncyBvYnNlcnZhdGlvbjogDQoN CjEgLSBKYW5vcyBjdXJyZW50IHByb3Bvc2VkKSANClRoZSBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwJ3Mgc2NvcGUg ZXhwbGljaXRseSBleGNsdWRlcyBtb2RpZmljYXRpb25zIG9mDQp0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xz LCBPQU0sIExheWVyIDMgZm9yd2FyZGluZywgZW5jYXBzdWxhdGlvbnMsIGFuZA0KY29udHJvbCBw bGFuZSBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGJ1dCBpdCBtYXkgZGlzY3VzcyByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZm9yIHN1Y2gN Cm1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgYW5kIHRoZSB3b3JrIHdpbGwgYmUgZG9uZSBpbiB0aGUgV0cgcmVzcG9u c2libGUgZm9yIHRoZQ0KdGVjaG5vbG9neS4NCg0KMiAtIEluY29ycG9yYXRpbmcgImFkYXB0ZWQg U1BSSU5HIiB3b3JkaW5nIGFzIHVzZWQgZm9yIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgcGxhbmUgcGFyYWdyYXBoKSAN ClRoZSBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwJ3Mgc2NvcGUgZXhwbGljaXRseSBleGNsdWRlcyBtb2RpZmljYXRp b25zIG9mDQp0cmFuc3BvcnQgcHJvdG9jb2xzLCBPQU0sIExheWVyIDMgZm9yd2FyZGluZywgZW5j YXBzdWxhdGlvbnMsIGFuZA0KY29udHJvbGxlciBwbGFuZSBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGJ1dCBpdCBtYXkg ZGlzY3VzcyByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZm9yIHN1Y2gNCm1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnM7IGFueSBpZGVudGlm aWVkIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBzaG91bGQgYmUgY2FycmllZCBvdXQgaW4gdGhlaXIgYXNzb2NpYXRl ZCBXR3MsIGJ1dCBtYXkgYmUgZG9uZSBpbiBEZXROZXQgaWYgYWdyZWVkIHRvIGJ5IHRoZSByZWxl dmFudCBXRyBjaGFpcnMgYW5kIHJlc3BvbnNpYmxlIEFyZWEgRGlyZWN0b3JzLg0KDQpFdGhhbi4N Cg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEFsdmFybyBSZXRhbmEgPGFyZXRh bmEuaWV0ZkBnbWFpbC5jb20+IA0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEFwcmlsIDksIDIwMjAgNzowMSBB TQ0KVG86IEphbm9zIEZhcmthcyA8amFub3MuZmFya2FzQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT47IExvdSBCZXJn ZXIgPGxiZXJnZXJAbGFibi5uZXQ+OyBHcm9zc21hbiwgRXRoYW4gQS4gPGVhZ3Jvc0Bkb2xieS5j b20+OyBUaGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCkNjOiBkZXRuZXQtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3Jn OyBkZXRuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBBbHZhcm8gUmV0YW5hJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0 aW9uIG9uIGNoYXJ0ZXItaWV0Zi1kZXRuZXQtMDEtMDA6ICh3aXRoIENPTU1FTlQpDQoNCk9uIEFw cmlsIDksIDIwMjAgYXQgODoyNzoxNiBBTSwgSmFub3MgRmFya2FzIHdyb3RlOg0KDQoNCkphbm9z Og0KDQpIaSENCg0KVGhpcyBsb29rcyBnb29kIHRvIG1lLi50aGVyZSdzIGp1c3QgYSBzbWFsbCBp bmNvbnNpc3RlbmN5Og0KDQoNCg0KLi4uDQo+IEdyb3Vwcy4gVGhlIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAncyBz Y29wZSBleHBsaWNpdGx5IGV4Y2x1ZGVzIG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgb2YgDQo+IHRyYW5zcG9ydCBw cm90b2NvbHMsIE9BTSwgTGF5ZXIgMyBmb3J3YXJkaW5nLCBlbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9ucywgYW5kIA0K PiBjb250cm9sIHBsYW5lIHByb3RvY29scywgYnV0IGl0IG1heSBkaXNjdXNzIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 cyBmb3Igc3VjaCANCj4gbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9ucyBhbmQgdGhlIHdvcmsgd2lsbCBiZSBkb25lIGlu IHRoZSBXRyByZXNwb25zaWJsZSBmb3IgdGhlIA0KPiB0ZWNobm9sb2d5Lg0KLi4uDQo+IENvbnRy b2xsZXIgUGxhbmU6IFRoaXMgd29yayB3aWxsIGRvY3VtZW50IGhvdyB0byB1c2UgSUVURiBDb250 cm9sbGVyIA0KPiBQbGFuZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBEZXROZXQsIGluY2x1ZGluZyB0 aGUgaWRlbnRpZmljYXRpb24gb2YgYW55IA0KPiBnYXBzIGluIGV4aXN0aW5nIHNvbHV0aW9ucy4g QW55IG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbiB0byBDb250cm9sbGVyIFBsYW5lIA0KPiBwcm90b2NvbHMgdG8gYWRk cmVzcyBpZGVudGlmaWVkIGdhcHMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNhcnJpZWQgb3V0IGluIHRoZWlyIA0KPiBh c3NvY2lhdGVkIFdHcywgYnV0IG1heSBiZSBkb25lIGluIERldE5ldCBpZiBhZ3JlZWQgdG8gYnkg dGhlIHJlbGV2YW50IA0KPiBXRyBjaGFpcnMgYW5kIHJlc3BvbnNpYmxlIEFyZWEgRGlyZWN0b3Jz Lg0KDQoNClRoZSBmaXJzdCBwaWVjZSBvZiB0ZXh0IHNheXMgdGhhdCBjb250cm9sIHBsYW5lIChh bmQgb3RoZXIpIHdvcmsgd2lsbCBiZSBkb25lIHNvbWV3aGVyZSBlbHNlLi4udGhlIHNlY29uZCBw aWVjZSBzYXlzIHRoYXQgbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9ucyB0byBjb250cm9sbGVyIHBsYW5lICh3aGljaCBp bmNsdWRlcyB0aGUgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZSkgbWF5IGJlIGRvbmUgaW4gZGV0bmV0LCBpZiBhZ3Jl ZWQuLi4NCg0KSnVzdCBhIHNtYWxsIG5pdC4NCg0KVGhhbmtzISENCg0KQWx2YXJvLg0K From nobody Thu Apr 9 13:31:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964023A0E1A; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 13:31:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.125.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: eagros@dolby.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, db3546@att.com, detnet@ietf.org, Ethan Grossman , draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls@ietf.org Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <158646429152.12964.16431577897297281172@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 13:31:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Last Call: (DetNet Data Plane: IP over MPLS) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 20:31:32 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Deterministic Networking WG (detnet) to consider the following document: - 'DetNet Data Plane: IP over MPLS' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-04-23. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating in an IP over MPLS packet switched network. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Thu Apr 9 15:30:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 517A93A10CD; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:30:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id icAZG5g9CUsB; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62BC43A10C8; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 039MUCBW024256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:30:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:30:12 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Janos Farkas Cc: The IESG , "detnet@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20200409223012.GK88064@kduck.mit.edu> References: <158641436125.2478.11784850947087112876@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 22:30:21 -0000 On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 12:31:17PM +0000, Janos Farkas wrote: > Hi Benjamin, > > Thank you for your review! > > Please see in line. > > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker > Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 8:39 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: detnet@ietf.org; detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [Detnet] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: (with COMMENT) > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-detnet-01-00: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I don't particularly mind the "vertical requirements" bit; "cannot be supported using defined DetNet solutions" does serve to limit scope. > > I do think that clarity around "identify the appropriate WG" would be good, though. > > [Janos Farkas] > I hope the updated text is clearer: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/IfEJfMaLP79ar0Cc0d6hzL75HlA/ It is; thanks! > A couple nits: > > Data plane: This work will document how to use IP and/or MPLS, and > related OAM, to support a data plane method of flow identification > and packet forwarding over Layer 3. Other IETF defined data plane > technologies may also be used. > > nit: "IP and/or MPLS, and related OAM, [...] Other IETF defined data plane technologies" is a somewhat awkward construction. > > [Janos Farkas] > To be honest, I have not idea how to improve, what change to make. I don't have a good idea, either. The most promising approach is to try to make a single list, "how to use IP, MPLS, other IETF-defined data plane technologies, and/or related OAM, to support [...]" but I suspect that loses some of the intended emphasis on which methods are preferred. It's okay to just leave this as-is, I think. > Controller Plane: This work will document how to use IETF control > plane solutions to support DetNet. This work includes identification > of any gaps in existing solutions and identifying the appropriate > Working Group for any needed extensions. > > nit: maybe "for developing"? > > This part has been updated: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/IfEJfMaLP79ar0Cc0d6hzL75HlA/ Indeed, this comment is overtaken by events. Thanks, Ben From nobody Sun Apr 12 12:38:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC20C3A2570; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:38:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework@ietf.org, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org, Ethan Grossman X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Murray Kucherawy Message-ID: <158672030338.28189.12877183158241057417@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 12:38:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 19:38:24 -0000 Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Editorial nits mostly. The more interesting stuff first: Throughout the document, various terms are sometimes capitalized and sometimes not. A pass should be done to make this uniform throughout the document. This becomes especially confusing in Section 3.6.2.1. Examples: "App-flows". "Service sub-layer", "Forwarding sub-layer", "Packet". Section 2.2: * "CW" by itself doesn't appear anywhere in this document. Neither do "LSR", "MPLS-TE", or "PW". Section 3.1: * Given the sentence in 3.1, I would expect the "technology" and "encapsulation" sections to be at the same level in the Table Of Contents tree, but they aren't. That is, since "Data Plane Technology" is 3.1.1, I would expect "Encapsulation" to be 3.1.2. Is some adjustment in order here? Section 3.3: * This paragraph needs a bit of editing: -- OLD -- Metadata can be included implicit or explicit. Explicit means that a dedicated header field is used to include metadata in a DetNet packet. In case of implicit method a part of an already existing header field is used to encode the metadata. -- SUGGEST -- Metadata inclusion can be implicit or explicit. Explicit inclusions involve a dedicated header field that is used to include metadata in a DetNet packet. In the implicit method, part of an already existing header field is used to encode the metadata. Section 3.6.1.2: * "Use of a specific path for a flow." -- this isn't a sentence; suggest: "A flow can be routed over a specific, pre-computed path." Section 3.6.1.3: * "Use of multiple packet streams using multiple paths, for example 1+1 or 1:1 linear protection." -- again not a sentence; maybe start with "Service protection involves use of ..." Section 3.6.1.8: * "... are currently out of scope for this document." -- remove "currently"; these issues won't be in scope for this document later Section 3.6.2.1: * "An OAM scheme that monitors the paths detects the loss of path or traffic is required to initiate the switch." -- I can't parse this sentence. Maybe "detects" should be "to detect"? Section 3.6.3: * "the sum of the reservations should be the sum of all the individual reservations" -- there may be a term of art in play here, but that phrase seems self-redundant; what else could the latter be but the former? Section 4.2.1: -- OLD -- The assignment of resources along the path depends on the technology and it includes assignment of specific links and coordination of the queuing and other traffic management capabilities such as policing and shaping. -- NEW -- The assignment of resources along the path depends on the technology and includes assignment of specific links, coordination of queueing, and other traffic management capabilities such as policing and shaping. And now the boring stuff, to save the RFC Editor some work: Section 1: * "Different application flows (e.g., Ethernet, IP, etc.), can be mapped on top of DetNet." -- remove the comma Section 3: * "Figure 1 reproduced from the [RFC8655],shows ..." -- remove "the" and replace the comma with a space * "The ordering (POF) uses sequence numbers ..." -- should probably be "The ordering function (POF) uses sequence numbers ..." Section 3.3: * "... can provide or carry metadata:" -- add "the following" after "carry" Section 3.4: * "... for example GRE, IPSec etc." -- comma after "IPSec" Section 3.5: * "... the d-CW [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls], [RFC4385],can be used." -- add a space before "can" * "... no architectural constraint on its size of this structure ... -- s/its/the/ Section 3.6.1.2: * "... for a certain characteristic e.g. highest ..." -- s/characteristic e.g. highest/characteristic, e.g., highest/ Section 3.6.1.3: * "For DetNet this primarily ..." -- add a comma after "DetNet" Section 3.6.1.4: * "Network Coding, [nwcrg] not to ..." -- move the comma to after "[nwcrg]" * "DetNet could utilized Network coding ..." -- s/utilized/utilize/ (or simply "use") Section 3.6.2: * "Service protection allow DetNet services ..." -- s/allow/allows/ Section 3.6.2.1: * "Figure 3: Example Packet Flow in DetNet protected Network" -- capitalize "protected" * "copy of packet 1.2 etc." -- add a comma after "1.2" * "...entities shown in Figure 3 ." -- s/3 ./3./ * "... traffic at a time, could use the ..." -- remove comma Section 3.6.2.3: * "Many of the same concepts apply however rings ..." -- add a comma after "apply" Section 3.6.3: * "When aggregating DetNet flows the flows should ..." -- add a comma after the first "flows" * "... should be compatible i.e. the same ..." -- s/compatible i.e./compatible, i.e.,/ * "When an encapsulation is used the choice ..." -- add comma after "used" Section 3.6.5: * "L2 represent a generic ..." s/represent/represents/ Section 4.1.: * The second citation of RFC8655 in the first paragraph is probably not needed. Section 4.2: * "While management plane and control planes ..." -- maybe "While the management and control planes ..." * Add a comma after "For example" in the last paragraph. Section 4.2.1: * "... provisioned or requested one or more ..." -- add comma after "requested" Section 4.2.4: -- OLD -- An example control plane solution for MPLS can be found in [RFC3473] , [RFC6387] and [RFC7551]. -- NEW -- Example control plane solutions for MPLS can be found in [RFC3473], [RFC6387], and [RFC7551]. From nobody Sun Apr 12 18:43:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759FF3A0868; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:43:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aXQxBTplNfyy; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA9853A0866; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id F1E79DC04F28E72BA469; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 02:43:43 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.100) by lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 02:43:42 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:43:40 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:43:40 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Don Fedyk , 'DetNet WG' CC: "draft-ietf-detnet-yang@ietf.org" , 'DetNet Chairs' , 'Janos Farkas' , =?utf-8?B?J+ycoOyXsOyyoCc=?= , 'Lou Berger' , =?utf-8?B?J0JhbMOhenMgVmFyZ2EgQSc=?= , Mach Chen Thread-Topic: Comparing DetNet YANG models - Application Part Thread-Index: AdYOisUw5pcJqro/S2OFApQ3oRpnXQCqgFgw Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 01:43:40 +0000 Message-ID: <4fcaca6a792f484ea74ff37a9ad80a4d@huawei.com> References: <001b01d60e8a$db981060$92c83120$@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <001b01d60e8a$db981060$92c83120$@labn.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.148.78] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4fcaca6a792f484ea74ff37a9ad80a4dhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Comparing DetNet YANG models - Application Part X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 01:43:50 -0000 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Tue, 14 Apr 2020 07:40:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 07:40:35 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 14:40:33 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 14:40:33 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Don Fedyk , 'DetNet WG' CC: Mach Chen , =?utf-8?B?J0JhbMOhenMgVmFyZ2EgQSc=?= , 'Janos Farkas' , 'DetNet Chairs' , "draft-ietf-detnet-yang@ietf.org" , 'Lou Berger' , =?utf-8?B?J+ycoOyXsOyyoCc=?= Thread-Topic: Comparing DetNet YANG models - Application Part Thread-Index: AdYOisUw5pcJqro/S2OFApQ3oRpnXQCqgFgwADbxQ5A= Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 06:40:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <001b01d60e8a$db981060$92c83120$@labn.net> <4fcaca6a792f484ea74ff37a9ad80a4d@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4fcaca6a792f484ea74ff37a9ad80a4d@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.203.104] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a9ade7390fa1414e939df380fa773462huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Comparing DetNet YANG models - Application Part X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 06:40:41 -0000 --_000_a9ade7390fa1414e939df380fa773462huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:22:38 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for this document. Just lots of editorial comments here: The RPC will need to do a lot of comma editing. I’m not going to call them all out here. — Section 1 — It describes the function and operation of the Packet Replication (PRF) Packet Elimination (PEF) and the Packet Ordering (POF) functions You need commas between the items in the list. I also find “the fuction of the functions” to be very odd, and suggest eliminating “functiin and” from the beginning of the sentence. Furthermore, it also describes the forwarding sub-layer. “Furthermore” and “also” together is redundant, and I suggest eliminating one of them. Different application flows (e.g., Ethernet, IP, etc.) can be mapped “e.g.” and “etc.” together is redundant, and I suggest “Different application flows, such as Ethernet or IP, can be mapped”. If you keep the parentheses, the comma needs to disappear. — Section 3 — The DetNet Architecture, [RFC8655], models the DetNet related data plane functions You don’t need the commas to set off the citation, as the brackets already do that. And “DetNet-related” needs a hyphen. Figure 1 reproduced from the [RFC8655],shows Make this, “Figure 1, reproduced from [RFC8655], shows” — Section 3.1.1 — currently defined for operation over packet switched (IP) networks or label switched (MPLS) networks. Hyphenate “packet-switched” and “label-switched”. — Section 3.1.2 — used and no sequence number is available, and in DetNet MPLS, DetNet specific information Hyphenate “DetNet-specific”. — Section 3.2 — An example of such metadata is the inclusion of a sequence number required by the PREOF function. “PREOF function” is redundant, as the “F” already means “function”. Also later in the document. — Section 3.4 — may be deployed, for example GRE, IPSec etc. “for example” and “etc.” together is redundant. — Section 3.6.1.1 — Reservation of resources can allocate resources to specific DetNet flows. This sounds a bit odd. Maybe, “Resources might be reserved in order to make them available for allocation to specific DetNet flows.” ? Misbehaving DetNet flows must be able to be detected and ensure that they do not compromise QoS of other flows. This sounds like it’s something that misbehaving DetNet flows have to do. It would be better this way: NEW It must be possible to detect misbehaving DetNet flows and to ensure that they do not compromise QoS of other flows. END — Section 3.6.1.2 — Explicit route computation can encompass a wide set of constraints and optimize the path for a certain characteristic e.g. highest bandwidth or lowest jitter. This would sound better with “and can optimize”. And “e.g.” needs commas bith before and after it, always. — Section 3.6.1.4 — DetNet could utilized Network coding Make it “utilize” (or, better, “use”). — Section 3.6.2.1 — traffic over each segment of the end to end path. Hyphenate “end-to-end” here. In this case there is no PRF function “PRF function” is redundant. — Section 3.6.2.2 — DetNet uses flow specific requirements (e.g., maximum number of out-of-order packets, maximum latency of the flow, etc.) for configuration of POF related buffers. Hyphenate “flow-specific” and “POF-related”, and eliminate either “e.g.” or “etc.” — Section 3.6.2.3 — Many of the same concepts apply however rings are There needs to be a comma before “however”. — Section 3.6.3 — How this is accomplished is data plane or control plane dependent. NEW How this is accomplished is data-plane or control-plane dependent. END When aggregating DetNet flows the flows should be compatible i.e. the same or very similar QoS and CoS characteristics. NEW When aggregating DetNet flows, the flows should be compatible, i.e., have the same or very similar QoS and CoS characteristics. END — Section 3.6.5 — MPLS nodes may interconnected by different sub-network “may be interconnected” Each of these sub-network technologies need to provide appropriate service The subject is “each”, which is singular, so “needs to provide”. — Section 4.2 — While management plane and control planes are traditionally considered separately, from the Data Plane perspective Don’t capitalize “data plane” here. — Section 4.2.1 — There are many techniques to achieve aggregation, for example in case of IP, it can be grouping of IP flows that share 6-tuple attributes or flow identifiers at the DetNet sub-layer. Very awkward sentence. Split and rephrase: NEW There are many techniques to achieve aggregation. For example, in the case of IP, IP flows that share 6-tuple attributes or flow identifiers at the DetNet sub-layer can be grouped. END — Section 5 — The primary considerations for the data plane is to maintain integrity of data and delivery of the associated DetNet service “consideration”, singular. through the use of existing mechanism such as policing and shaping Make it “an existing mechanism” or “existing mechanisms”. 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:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qcLaIkCfNMF/Ywo/vtwZk5DP+TR4WaAzTnjKueZTScQ=; b=ViF0/7tyyktjETwC1ZAHsjoPZp hglv8KRNPhx2r4WQmtQL2L7Y7UN9ExtG2RTpC+nCp4RpDRFHnB/WnjqaymwKHXkB0X25KHeBWC/gC OsctQrcBWFlzofO+VpujYvhGH; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=59453 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jPQqT-0046Tz-GU; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 07:15:49 -0600 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=c3=a1zs_Varga_A?= , "Black, David" , "last-call@ietf.org" Cc: Ethan Grossman , "detnet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-detnet-ip@ietf.org" , "db3546@att.com" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" References: <89a3eb9d-876b-3a5f-ab14-a04f51cced03@labn.net> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <5537e2f3-2968-e324-b620-4edccb297a29@labn.net> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 09:15:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jPQqT-0046Tz-GU X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:59453 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 7 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Last Call Comment: - ICMP support, e.g., ping and traceroute X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 13:16:03 -0000 Hi, David -- looks like I missed your response to my message.  My apologies. Balázs -- Thanks for the changes and agree that it is a good adjustment to address David's changes.  One more suggestion to allow for a possible future definition that allows for type-specific flows - if anyone decides that such is a good thing:     s/All ICMP types MUST be supported/Note that ICMP type is not included in the flow definition/ Lou On 4/17/2020 9:03 AM, Balázs Varga A wrote: > Hi David, > > Thanks for the comment. I am working on the update of the document. > > In order to fix your comment I propose to add a new paragraph in Section > 3. after your referred text dealing with 6-tuple. > NEW > For some of the protocols 5-tuples and 6-tuples cannot be used because > the port information is not available (e.g., ICMP, IPSec ESP). Same can > be valid for flow aggregates. In such cases using smaller tuples are > appropriate, e.g., a 3-tuple (2 IP addresses, IP protocol) or even a > 2-tuple (all IP traffic between two IP addresses). > END > > Furthermore to change text in Section 5.1.2 (adding ICMP): > OLD > Implementations of this document MUST support DetNet flow > identification based on header information identified in this > section. Support for TCP, UDP and IPsec flows is defined. Future > documents are expected to define support for other protocols. > NEW > Implementations of this document MUST support DetNet flow > identification based on header information identified in this > section. Support for TCP, UDP, ICMP and IPsec flows is defined. Future > documents are expected to define support for other protocols. > END > > And finally adding a new subsection before current 5.1.2.2. > NEW > 5.1.2.2 ICMP > DetNet flow identification for ICMP is achieved based on the > protocol's header. All ICMP types MUST be supported. > END > > Do they address your comments? > > Cheers > Bala'zs > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Black, David > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:39 AM > To: Lou Berger ; last-call@ietf.org > Cc: Ethan Grossman ; detnet@ietf.org; draft-ietf-detnet-ip@ietf.org; db3546@att.com; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; Black, David > Subject: RE: Last Call Comment: - ICMP support, e.g., ping and traceroute > > Hi Lou, > >> Umm, what makes you say ICMP isn't supported? The current text has >> what you are asking for: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-05#section-5.1.1.3 >> (which is also summarized in section 6) >> >> There's additional information that can be specified when the next >> protocol is UDP/TCP/IPsec, but ICMP is perfectly valid in the current >> flow definition. > I stand corrected - the current draft's requirement for ICMP support is "MAY" - that requirement ought to be a "MUST" now to ensure that ping and traceroute will work for all DetNet implementations. > > The details of why ICMP support is a "MAY" requirement in the current draft begin with the summary in Section 6 (this is the IPv4 text; the IPv6 text is analogous): > > o IPv4 protocol field. A limited set of values is allowed, and the > ability to ignore this field, e.g., via configuration of the value > zero (0), is desirable. > > So, what is that "limited set of values"? Section 5.1.1.3 says: > > Implementations of this document MUST support DetNet flow > identification based on the IPv4 Protocol field when processing IPv4 > packets, and the IPv6 Next Header Field when processing IPv6 packets. > An implementation MUST support flow identification based on the next > protocol values defined in Section 5.1.2. Other, non-zero values, > MUST be used for flow identification. Implementations SHOULD allow > for these fields to be ignored for a specific DetNet flow. > > Moving to Section 5.1.2, the text that defines the required next protocol values is: > > Implementations of this document MUST support DetNet flow > identification based on header information identified in this > section. Support for TCP, UDP and IPsec flows is defined. Future > documents are expected to define support for other protocols. > > ICMP is not listed, so this falls back to Section 5.1.1.3 where ICMP is included in: "Other, non-zero values, MUST be used for flow identification." That text doesn't say which non-zero values, effectively leaving the choice to implementers. That's a truck-sized loophole ... looking at the IANA registry (https://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml#protocol-numbers-1), an implementer could select 12 (PUP) and 16 (Chaos) and claim to have met that requirement :-). > > The upshot is that ICMP is sufficiently important that support for it ought to be a MUST requirement now, not left as something for a future document to do, potentially stranding implementations whose implementers didn't think of ICMP until it was too late. > > Once ICMP is mandatory, the next consideration is whether that support in flow identification is all-or-nothing across ICMP types vs. whether DetNet flow identification ought to be able to select specific ICMP types. There are about a dozen currently defined valid ICMP types (https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmp-parameters/icmp-parameters.xhtml#icmp-parameters-types), some of which can be used to cause mischief. OTOH, a DetNet network is a tightly controlled environment, so it may suffice to simply require all-or-nothing support for ICMP types in DetNet flow identification and rely on other controls to prevent mischief. A good and carefully thought out decision needs to be made on this topic, as it may affect implementation hardware. > > Beyond that, Section 3 focuses on 6-tuple identification: > > The DetNet IP data plane primarily uses "6-tuple" based flow > identification, where 6-tuple refers to information carried in IP and > higher layer protocol headers. The 6-tuple referred to in this > document is the same as that defined in [RFC3290]. Specifically > 6-tuple is (destination address, source address, IP protocol, source > port, destination port, and differentiated services (DiffServ) code > point (DSCP). General background on the use of IP headers, and > 5-tuples, to identify flows and support Quality of Service (QoS) can > be found in [RFC3670]. [RFC7657] also provides useful background on > the delivery of DiffServ and "tuple" based flow identification. Note > that a 6-tuple is composed of a 5-tuple plus the addition of a DSCP > component. > > The DetNet IP data plane also allows for optional matching on the > IPv6 flow label field, as defined in [RFC8200]. > > This is where I initially went astray in writing up the comment - Section 3 also ought to point out that smaller tuples are fine, e.g., a 3-tuple (2 IP addresses, IP protocol) or even a 2-tuple (all IP traffic between two IP addresses) are both possible and reasonable under the right circumstances. In addition, ICMP is one of two protocols for which 5-tuples and 6-tuples cannot be used because the port information is not available - the other protocol is IPsec ESP, which encrypts the transport header that contains the ports. All of this would be very helpful to summarize in Section 3. > >> The IP OAM document is coming. In hallway discussion we even talked >> about how to make ICMP/BFD/etc follow the same paths as other specific >> flow rules. There is a nascent document on this, >> draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam, although it is certainly lagging behind >> the MPLS oam document. FWIW I'm hoping for there to be more who wish >> to contribute on the IP OAM document - hint, hint, hint... > Greg twisted my arm (gently), so I've signed on to help with that IP OAM draft. > > Thanks, --David > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lou Berger >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 5:29 PM >> To: Black, David; last-call@ietf.org >> Cc: Ethan Grossman; detnet@ietf.org; draft-ietf-detnet-ip@ietf.org; >> db3546@att.com; detnet-chairs@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Last Call Comment: - ICMP >> support, e.g., ping and traceroute >> >> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >> >> Hi David, >> >> See below. >> >> On 3/12/2020 11:06 AM, Black, David wrote: >>> Comment: As specified in the current draft, the DetNet IP data plane >>> does not >> support ping, traceroute, and any other mechanism or tool that is >> based on ICMP. This is because ICMP does not use ports, so ICMP >> traffic cannot be described by either a 5-tuple or a 6-tuple, and hence ICMP traffic cannot be >> part of a DetNet flow that is described by a 5-tuple or 6-tuple. The draft needs >> to be revised to either: >>> - enable ICMP to be used with the DetNet IP data plane (ICMP would >> use a 3-tuple, two IP addresses and the protocol number for ICMP); or >>> - document and justify a deliberate design decision that ICMP (and >> hence ICMP-based tools) cannot be used with the DetNet IP data plane. >>> The former course of action (enable ICMP with the DetNet IP data >>> plane) is >> strongly suggested, e.g., in order to enable use of ping and >> traceroute with the DetNet IP data plane. >> >> Umm, what makes you say ICMP isn't supported?  The current text has >> what you are asking for: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-05#section-5.1.1.3 >> (which is also summarized in section 6) >> >> There's additional information that can be specified when the next >> protocol is UDP/TCP/IPsec, but ICMP is perfectly valid in the current >> flow definition. >> >>> Background: In discussion at the Singapore detnet WG meeting, OAM >>> was >> characterized as something that would be added to the DetNet data >> planes later, with the (at least implied) assertion that there >> shouldn't be anything in the data planes that blocks OAM >> functionality. That does appear to be the case for the MPLS data plane, but the IP data plane appears to differ. >> >> The IP OAM document is coming.  In hallway discussion we even talked >> about how to make ICMP/BFD/etc follow the same paths as other specific >> flow rules.  There is a nascent document on this, >> draft-mirsky-detnet-ip-oam, although it is certainly lagging behind >> the MPLS oam document.  FWIW I'm hoping for there to be more who wish >> to contribute on the IP OAM document - hint, hint, hint... >> >>> Later than might have been ideal, I've discussed DetNet IP OAM with >>> Greg >> Mirsky via email - our initial take from that discussion is that most >> OAM for the DetNet IP data plane can be accomplished over UDP, with the notable >> exception of tools such as ping and traceroute that use ICMP. For ping and >> traceroute to work with DetNet, the ICMP packets that are used have to >> pass through the DetNet data plane at DetNet nodes, otherwise these >> tools may erroneously report no connectivity problems with the >> ordinary (non-DetNet) data plane when DetNet IP data plane connectivity is broken and vice-versa. >> >> Right -- and this can be done as part of the flow rules setup that is >> outside the scope of this document. >> >>> Sorry to bring this up at a late stage in the process, but better late than never. >> Not at all, this has been discussed but has yet to make it in WG >> documents, so is 100% fair game.  The intent is for the current >> documents to support the future OAM work.  It would have been optimal >> for the OAM documents to be done now, but their not as contributions >> in this area have lagged behind the more general data plane work. >> Again, contributions in this are would be hugely welcomed! >> >> >>> I also spotted an editorial oversight in Section 4.3.1: >>> >>> OLD >>> Class of Service (CoS) for DetNet flows carried in IPv6 is provided >>> using the standard differentiated services code point (DSCP) field >>> [RFC2474] and related mechanisms. >>> NEW >>> >>> Class of Service (CoS) for DetNet flows carried in IPv4 and IPv6 is provided >>> using the standard differentiated services code point (DSCP) field >>> [RFC2474] and related mechanisms. >>> >>> The authors deserve some sort of recognition here, as the far more >>> typical >> variant of this oversight is to omit IPv6 :-) >> >> Thanks ;-) >> >> Lou >> >> (as contributor) >> >>> Thanks, --David >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: IETF-Announce On Behalf Of >>>> The >> IESG >>>> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 3:59 PM >>>> To: IETF-Announce >>>> Cc: Ethan Grossman; detnet@ietf.org; draft-ietf-detnet-ip@ietf.org; >>>> db3546@att.com; detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Last Call: (DetNet Data >>>> Plane: IP) to Proposed Standard >>>> >>>> >>>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>>> >>>> >>>> The IESG has received a request from the Deterministic Networking >>>> WG >>>> (detnet) >>>> to consider the following document: - 'DetNet Data Plane: IP' >>>> as Proposed Standard >>>> >>>> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and >>>> solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive >>>> comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-03-13. >>>> Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In >>>> either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. >>>> >>>> Abstract >>>> >>>> >>>> This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when >>>> operating in an IP packet switched network. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The file can be obtained via >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/ >>>> >>>> IESG discussion can be tracked via >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/ballot/ >>>> >>>> >>>> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IETF-Announce mailing list >>>> IETF-Announce@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Fri Apr 17 07:33:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82283A094E; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hkNWoJmsFkDk; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe29.google.com (mail-vs1-xe29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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b=irwWtjx4/0Gqo4aOkQKjHNxfaixEReckQw+VUXK5Tv5HctE2V0hVk2D7FyDSdK5A5G zFfkkn/HnU0BYzpUcJpZcX0iTdzSvQhu5m88Mb1TIDYzGugM6bP+i0k4I7Jq7gNCc2kp UR886Ih62mpL9GYjPUYF13ln/2Ef4Br6wdckXL1TLzyRdfmEKqwcr7p/gbBn5sOyx2Z7 BXrqps2PWUfrVmP5n7ZvxXHKDM4Vwczg03KMCMiDvOV5QYge/AuWKqbnffPCZIVgiPaD RODUujvCrXfaRkMufI+r0Tka3gDRRvkfo7FOw9cNkRtZ/B8o3unP6t0x4ypt9pqPoKLS nrBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubegydFmVXoIroltAu8iusb4l9NxZtU3g//RpsR3MJKN7jCKp+z dxgx22SuQuKy473dwvOA0pB21c7xf5pxKcE/uVc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJEtlkvTD3TKX7kDXQSHeVHQ/DU6nq0CD54cXLIigDoJQ4Y8jBrJ5MmCwDCcLgnMRfXvpTJKYtn1mkVrpytLjU= X-Received: by 2002:a67:d606:: with SMTP id n6mr3167224vsj.86.1587373524506; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:05:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <158624986177.7879.15272885885261397703@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Yoshifumi Nishida Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000ddbdc05a3b533d6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:06:40 -0000 --0000000000000ddbdc05a3b533d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bal=C3=A1zs, Thanks for the clarification. I think it might be good if you can provide simple texts in the draft to provide these info for references. -- Yoshi On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 8:10 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A wrote: > Hi Yoshi, > > Many thanks for the review. > Regarding your comment on "conflict of the flow ID or wrap-around of the > sequence number". > Yes, these are important aspects in DetNet. > > Yes, flow ID must be unique in order to identify packets belonging to the > DetNet flow. > This must be ensured by the control and/or management plane. DetNet WG wa= s > re-chartered > recently to focus on these planes as well. In data plane drafts we have > dedicated a section > to collect " Controller Plane (Management and Control) Considerations". > > Regarding sequence number, wrap-around events are flow characteristics an= d > network > dependent. The data plane technology specific documents ensures that the > sequence number > space does not wrap whilst packets are in flight ( see Section 4.1. and > 4.2.1 in > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls ). > > I hope that clarifies your comments. > > Many Thanks > Bala'zs > > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker > Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 10:58 AM > To: tsv-art@ietf.org > Cc: last-call@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework.all@ietf.org > Subject: Tsvart last call review of > draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04 > > Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida > Review result: Ready with Nits > > This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review > team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were > written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the > document's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and > also to the IETF discussion list for information. > > When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this > review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC > tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. > > Summary: Ready with Nits. > > This document is well-written as an informational RFC. I don't see any > technical issues related to transport, but it might be better to clarify > the following minor point. > > The draft allows DetNet data plane to carry flow ID and sequence number a= s > metadata. But, aren't there any potential risks for the conflict of the > flow ID or wrap-around of the sequence number? (especially for explicit > case) It might be better to state which module should care if it's out of > scope for the draft or to clarify there is no risk against them. > > Thanks, > -- > Yoshi > > > > --0000000000000ddbdc05a3b533d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Bal=C3=A1zs,

Thanks = for the clarification.=C2=A0
I think it might be good if you can = provide simple texts in the draft to provide these info for references.--
Yoshi

On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 8:10 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <= balazs.a.v= arga@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Yoshi,

Many thanks for the review.
Regarding your comment on "conflict of the flow ID or wrap-around of t= he sequence number".
Yes, these are important aspects in DetNet.

Yes, flow ID must be unique in order to identify packets belonging to the D= etNet flow.
This must be ensured by the control and/or management plane. DetNet WG was = re-chartered
recently to focus on these planes as well. In data plane drafts we have ded= icated a section
to collect " Controller Plane (Management and Control) Considerations&= quot;.

Regarding sequence number, wrap-around events are flow characteristics and = network
dependent. The data plane technology specific documents ensures that the se= quence number
space does not wrap whilst packets are in flight ( see Section 4.1. and 4.2= .1 in
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-d= etnet-mpls ).

I hope that clarifies your comments.

Many Thanks
Bala'zs

-----Original Message-----
From: Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 10:58 AM
To: tsv-art@ietf.org<= /a>
Cc: last-call@ietf.= org; detnet@ietf.o= rg; draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework.all@ietf.org
Subject: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-= 04

Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida
Review result: Ready with Nits

This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team&#= 39;s ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were writt= en primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the docume= nt's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also= to the IETF discussion list for information.

When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this r= eview as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org if y= ou reply to or forward this review.

Summary: Ready with Nits.

This document is well-written as an informational RFC. I don't see any = technical issues related to transport, but it might be better to clarify th= e following minor point.

The draft allows DetNet data plane to carry flow ID and sequence number as = metadata. But, aren't there any potential risks for the conflict of the= flow ID or wrap-around of the sequence number? (especially for explicit ca= se) It might be better to state which module should care if it's out of= scope for the draft or to clarify there is no risk against them.

Thanks,
--
Yoshi



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a=ydlOUqo9ZVRb99kjdIcA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=pHzHmUro8NiASowvMSCR:22 a=xoEH_sTeL_Rfw54TyV31:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:To:Subject:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=W3MA4dB6KBBFu5vO6r4SBs9WvxfeSaMXdiDBVT0nkNk=; b=ibNMqAB3OHeLSQeRQgRAk7FOVZ A/5J7giFP87rzDUR7/R95PjZvepTees3XxTw2HIdGlmD4dIt5c7/OcLuD8/lsjs1wsfresXEit0Wn f6/gNFUfmosDQHQCkI5+H7fzy; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=19659 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQXup-004H3y-Vo for detnet@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:00:56 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: DetNet WG Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:00:54 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jQXup-004H3y-Vo X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:19659 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:01:10 -0000 All, This starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 The working group last call ends on April 4. Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! This is useful and important, even from authors. Thank you, Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) From nobody Mon Apr 20 08:01:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655A03A0918 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ETKdNZJ-inJ4 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy4-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy4-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.23.142]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81B603A08CA for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CMGW (unknown [10.9.0.13]) by gproxy4.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD2C3175F9C for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id QXuyjqB1etoKZQXuyjTpMz; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:01:04 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=EoeilWUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10 a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=-tsAPJKn6S7ax0J5AdsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Subject:From:Cc:To:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZjbhQIm5cYOFJ3aRHX6LgQzbH/HqjPaL5yd+ir3fGHs=; b=ITUhbvpjOYjeEw7VbQL1lH99jk +BtvNRV8+I6Cun2h6qLgAc8axPN0QxMfQQtNbTnWJHlCNc4hw9VYAIdIhA0FWOlalIs1IBMMMLvRi Ueci2AkQPb1Q6KpqDo5Ou5188; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=19693 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQXuv-004H4c-Sf; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:01:04 -0600 To: than.grossman@dolby.com, Tal Mizrahi , ajhacker@mistiqtech.com, sdas@appcomsci.com, john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com, henrik@austad.us, nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com, Carsten Bormann Cc: DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:00:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jQXuv-004H4c-Sf X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:19693 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 10 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:01:27 -0000 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call: Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your response. From nobody Mon Apr 20 08:27:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D6E3A08DA; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.82, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nfinnconsulting.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y81QOEk5AktK; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us2-ob3-7.mailhostbox.com (us2-ob3-7.mailhostbox.com [208.91.199.220]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30EA33A08D4; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (ip72-220-193-129.sd.sd.cox.net [72.220.193.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com) by us2.outbound.mailhostbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7D37D3E56; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:27:31 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nfinnconsulting.com; s=20161121; t=1587396452; bh=YfBhogIeLroGcU8vymTN3tL92Z7a5bd1KpXECuxUFiY=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=A0fQwGqKLymufXmU/9a8RiOt4ZPtrNemSf5NIoBEPJjx8t8dn2Pr+UsrGKM9G34C6 8nKAENT7UTSVWLcAMRP0wdHXBON12ALg0dEEpTp228MSLF9bZajtkOuwcxB3D6QTKI Il7Zp6Ac7zwPcxUsGRb3a4JM5VNjtvXs1vXX3qH8= From: Norman Finn Message-Id: <039D0ED5-D10C-4E47-BFF9-28D9A93D4A2A@nfinnconsulting.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BE9AEE78-FF3C-46F4-99A1-CA2353D3C1CE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:27:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: than.grossman@dolby.com, Tal Mizrahi , ajhacker@mistiqtech.com, sdas@appcomsci.com, john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com, Henrik Austad , Carsten Bormann , DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs To: Lou Berger References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=boQy+3Si c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ZroTAhzyX14UgCOAdtcGMw==:117 a=ZroTAhzyX14UgCOAdtcGMw==:17 a=c309fuS5OrV3TuQLdlEA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=dcpo_gdDK19ebCJ1ebEA:9 a=jKXfHCFpGKCWpDg5:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:27:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BE9AEE78-FF3C-46F4-99A1-CA2353D3C1CE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft =E2=80=94 Norm Finn > On Apr 20, 2020, at 08:00, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 > Authors, Contributors, WG, >=20 > As part of WG Last Call: >=20 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? >=20 > Please state either: >=20 > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > or > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" >=20 > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? >=20 > If yes to the above, please state either: >=20 > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" >=20 > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor = please answer the > above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are > aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next > stage until a response has been received from each author. >=20 > NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. >=20 > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not = listed > as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under > the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are > aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from > participating in any contribution or discussion related to your > undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed = above > and > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. >=20 > Thank you, > Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) >=20 > PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your > response. >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_BE9AEE78-FF3C-46F4-99A1-CA2353D3C1CE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 No, = I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft

=E2=80=94 Norm Finn

On Apr 20, 2020, at 08:00, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> = wrote:

Authors, Contributors, WG,

As = part of WG Last Call:

Are you aware of any = IPR that applies to drafts identified above?

Please state either:

"No, I'm = not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
or
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft"

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in = compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3669, 5378 and = 8179 for more details)?

If yes to the = above, please state either:

"Yes, the IPR = has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules"
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any additional details you = think
appropriate. If you are listed as a document author = or contributor please answer the
above by responding to = this email regardless of whether or not you are
aware of = any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next
stage until a response has been received from each author.

NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN = THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES.

If you are on the = WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed
as = an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under
the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if = you are
aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or = to refrain from
participating in any contribution or = discussion related to your
undisclosed IPR. For more = information, please see the RFCs listed above
and
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualPro= perty.

Thank you,
Lou = (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd)

PS = Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your
response.




= --Apple-Mail=_BE9AEE78-FF3C-46F4-99A1-CA2353D3C1CE-- From nobody Mon Apr 20 08:33:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95653A0945; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.184 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.097, RDNS_NONE=1.274, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e63wk8uY52H4; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (unknown [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCA273A093F; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id k1so12747258wrx.4; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:33:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y1PBmb0f2JJo0AgLPadN3nfL9weN+FByEBJD/1XGdOI=; b=sTV9kKdT9PkQmX/+j8axXvYegwjGmDPqUFEqwPb74X7jhk9OtRex0T5goEExyscnxg L/glL8d/f9AqDvU373Ha2HEmENCjGlVlVdRnrEspq4Xkrdlma2U9RtSHwxJ8BtYmh0RT IMP4iWLKcy7v4eKvoLTtEdf/wP5RpO8cXsCURcHphV0ngq67y8wluz/3ZWlPGqyx0okP CFUDc6Sl7KgKh6PAyxPyD9Ih9MlJD8ghuG+PmeQA+iF5lvv3QmGtCMpUT2/9iBJdust4 1LsRiMy7BP9KWywtY6j5sAea1J3XY7yjgZVltUuk93FK7sVYyOHgdFam9h4T/uCSot8Y jkTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y1PBmb0f2JJo0AgLPadN3nfL9weN+FByEBJD/1XGdOI=; b=rpKa7ISSg5hkLAMhw9mSsqQQ9j2JufDAGQ/neYJLDZNa6Y2NugN5rpTQGjQDjFDJot BHK7wAbtVeSFQv7iKbFoAij28WKrQBy1LqpJUnwbjRVDHxnYpcb9H9skFNPRMTSnkT7j aYV2RXhwUYJMla/iuWt9iTTAqvfcniZO1ZkvCtn0+BIy3aA5TYtIxd6u29htA1ThABRD 3Ac6cuL3eRGn+SR8oxA3LvBO8eZ4XBQ59yL0HoPioPSElEDZ515MAjAAW+hFEFBzn0Wl Ez4ka5lvELrG5QLVMmczuPKAQkpHzEgYYKnjjjjQTO/4d8UVJlP4Z3VWqTPdt8KNIMS4 XjUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZOIlOlQv7n8YIOsaonXaKMEQfn2J3DSTRfaeeCwkmVrLQ6LE6/ wy+DQR/8+ZZuoXlp6AGzJuShXjDqoyJyTIAAafY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJEnhaVBnd+7KxM+ziOHyvyLCWWKc11TN0SsH3bsbboNbb03npj0PbQD+lQ3sfP7/euYfjatxwQMDLhyPMHrv4= X-Received: by 2002:adf:dd0c:: with SMTP id a12mr20060220wrm.144.1587396783293; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:33:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:32:50 +0300 Message-ID: To: Lou Berger Cc: than.grossman@dolby.com, Andrew J Hacker , sdas@appcomsci.com, john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com, Henrik Austad , nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com, Carsten Bormann , DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:33:16 -0000 I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document. Cheers, Tal. On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 6:01 PM Lou Berger wrote: > > Authors, Contributors, WG, > > As part of WG Last Call: > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? > > Please state either: > > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > or > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? > > If yes to the above, please state either: > > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" > > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor > please answer the > above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are > aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next > stage until a response has been received from each author. > > NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. > > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed > as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under > the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are > aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from > participating in any contribution or discussion related to your > undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above > and > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. > > Thank you, > Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) > > PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your > response. > > > From nobody Mon Apr 20 09:08:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1723A0A0E; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXXfjfstInvv; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ce565ebd-30d7-43c7-3167-08d7e5450ace X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Apr 2020 16:08:19.2162 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: QUApC5Xj5yxAcHuUHVbcElnZgHd3ZpVictlw2dZzHzlJCK4CHbrK3h3QTL6J3NhRi0+5kEfumcH8H0ZSVIxIHJkImX9/KY7fqxqjD5TUN20= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR0702MB3571 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 16:08:24 -0000 No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft, Bala'zs -----Original Message----- From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 5:01 PM To: than.grossman@dolby.com; Tal Mizrahi ; ajhac= ker@mistiqtech.com; sdas@appcomsci.com; john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com; henrik= @austad.us; nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com; Carsten Bormann Cc: DetNet WG ; DetNet Chairs Subject: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call: Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see R= FCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the= above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are awa= re of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage un= til a response has been received from each author. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF= IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR = of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any = contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more inform= ation, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/grou= p/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your respons= e. _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon Apr 20 10:40:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563BF3A0C17; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:40:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dolby.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12gIABc53Bks; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12on2098.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.244.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1B213A0CD3; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:36:47 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=hau24k+9/Wlrf0wYGXtKOX+0W2Mz/iL5jsP7EjTcxDTN2W3K+hPQ6By6ngkDGTh0xd1LSeSkJyqOGkwRm2puzujXtpdEVUqRRItn+xEA632EY9TYG9eFbBMctmeN/4IwT1kdFy6KU/hOA50PxFXiA5fSsawFH92ueDjGke5gvXTlnotBBqjy5skgxrohZYZlBgM86+EN7dswhsbABi71XAf5gjGD/1CqRbkM5HN8o7810CfPM9AdNyqQ2v4l39zISynRp2ygoOBoCBLwDb6/aMXUrDuvSEXKME3yHr1g3gPJOUSi75t7ActasbbBjBBNWJZd2DxkWDLWVtE+Pt7rMQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=1u8ZJ3ro8PSqZXQuli7sV2//k+xtNMheu9MhN0etffQ=; b=KZIbgW2eANQtiLS0yruDIbF00Yxs/kJU4Z8FoLPC+/XRb9CpegoUVZuT6U8vPsYp12kvb4PHPNde6ZzeRClbNiCS2+5xguinCqjtIYbcNaeImEr1rjGrdYHu0VeL1aLgwVqzW1sYGsj3Z8L42YCLswrt2dKF7HzcOizn3x9tI7g+5zZxYIUzP3CAVTW4IYR2tM+DZCfFdpyNGJwq1k//kIc6aJJqgvzxqKSrp5CafQrDgFq6vnjX8W1TXrfGt2dSFm12JRtx5zRue2udtwVMI9JsvFhr8IxAv1Y1D/x8mzeFv4CSWCkYbcdyP3ev16m6u9zlWuMo1Q6S1u7TVPDIoQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dolby.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dolby.com; dkim=pass header.d=dolby.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dolby.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=1u8ZJ3ro8PSqZXQuli7sV2//k+xtNMheu9MhN0etffQ=; b=tliRLserpduDgPpmsLjMjyRjlJSqtn5arQfDZVC3tvwBiJNMPS/uE3nmyQytZQnNQ6mvyoieZMV5pQPhCthkqfVBuCBN7nbIDxARv4xZceAjTq3GTVlleSA3HfO4hRAKNoE3QbJa1TbXB03BLjmtmnkMc6nWwxYjr8qHJeZLcCk= Received: from BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:23d::20) by BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:23d::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.25; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:36:40 +0000 Received: from BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29b9:ed8f:43ff:5552]) by BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29b9:ed8f:43ff:5552%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2921.027; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:36:40 +0000 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: Lou Berger , "than.grossman@dolby.com" , Tal Mizrahi , "ajhacker@mistiqtech.com" , "sdas@appcomsci.com" , "john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com" , "henrik@austad.us" , "nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com" , Carsten Bormann CC: DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Thread-Index: AQHWFySdkSQAgk2R4UuNcJmSEqZXwaiCRV+Q Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:36:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [104.129.202.56] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0a9c656c-666a-4aa1-535b-08d7e55162a8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR06MB6611: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; x-forefront-prvs: 03793408BA x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10019020)(39850400004)(376002)(346002)(396003)(136003)(366004)(66476007)(76116006)(64756008)(66446008)(66946007)(5660300002)(66556008)(8676002)(4326008)(7416002)(8936002)(81156014)(52536014)(71200400001)(7696005)(110136005)(316002)(33656002)(54906003)(186003)(15650500001)(55236004)(26005)(9686003)(966005)(86362001)(55016002)(6506007)(53546011)(478600001)(2906002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: dolby.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: tlCu1oCW2gi+MTadwEfA6/ddqMggjapXKQxjTtBD7ExcWCWm38E1IDBmYKww3W5G37De2xGR4kQ0jbYF3Fp7Ot0EW2u1QR5If5Epx/KVC6coBP5RQXQkjoEPcs0srK0blhPHlEdh7FcwiiA1P8+Zyw== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: dolby.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0a9c656c-666a-4aa1-535b-08d7e55162a8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Apr 2020 17:36:40.3756 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 05408d25-cd0d-40c8-8962-5462de64a318 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: FLrb1sIbtWoxfyU2T5HyjHilxwmDVcr425d5GwnbSnA7hcoMeF1ls2NrKD1jkiQP5zJd7VRBAMt74gY9PSA4IA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR06MB6611 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:40:26 -0000 I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this document. Ethan. -----Original Message----- From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:01 AM To: than.grossman@dolby.com; Tal Mizrahi ; ajhac= ker@mistiqtech.com; sdas@appcomsci.com; john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com; henrik= @austad.us; nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com; Carsten Bormann Cc: DetNet WG ; DetNet Chairs Subject: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call: Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see R= FCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the= above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are awa= re of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage un= til a response has been received from each author. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF= IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR = of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any = contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more inform= ation, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/grou= p/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your respons= e. _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon Apr 20 13:09:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759F73A0EDC for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=austad-us.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tiHINouiEi9J for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com (mail-io1-xd44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4CE33A0EF0 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id f19so12530991iog.5 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:09:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=austad-us.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=clXn49sOm+ihqHdFj7AsrN+bj4u1T3Xpjj6SWpyLh/g=; b=Dp+yP360vYIi1IJ6PvsJJqg3ja7WTpFUlqtKVBkcXq7mXGgV8gbNTpQZM9vKE6/jH8 J5bGJDKFobzfbAfTo2W4Te5pjR0iPLSEsOwScetPj5kgM0qmC87tyJtej0J2gvYGN8k8 rX9Z0+CiRfJpP6iMkodK2M4ZQSZ/mm+KA4/Ug5gGoLhAwW0j6eMgUuJhGfSs0bIBzLYO yXhFMrGlOP20+XCHjSCsZS8iti04IkrHuD9DasXq4YSW3wJt+lRBucU1QWYAzf5pRrHb pJWfuYR2QV7H3USoRykIOS+JmO/g03hcgJMQSzCx2DXcBwIX5rcuOmcFFTbjWTMqNHdB CwOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=clXn49sOm+ihqHdFj7AsrN+bj4u1T3Xpjj6SWpyLh/g=; b=JYArdo2DVOXgMPPv3jW9KA54sVngb6vCyyBjveQi4aMLuiDTMOR5KgMJrhpbSbSnxN JdvmcsRXJFnu3a9sWVirfwgoYWwLTtKb34zf6NdKOAb8/MtCee3VOpBysIuC18cYfGnJ BDK60d/C2KwLNGvMjQFt3DxVdrY6B+C/p3DZABOArw6uw8+MLNfLpJ6MEpM1yu51R8bc bnsKApJ0EG7+cYQVAHuxjXbN2I9uZwd8/xIb3PEzhq372UwRTlHLf2wzcdnEYplzGXet hkHZFJstOtwkwciivH+5ZUBKiuPCaIVUNz+2fQ2q4y+Hwc2J16n02En1Q8JQ/cfOer4K BU2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYZGlLxalpkOLzX1h/2Uqa6Qjte4V4mE+On+Ol0xHDR8rZB5l5p 7mVW+dn5zawfGSXMjc1BHjeeQCH3iQqsZR523xbu0A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKo3Y6wLnwWkAvyFfMyHZBJWiRu/y3ER3MG4gHAPaZV7Iv1oiEVUZ1aeoJPy+4zDb4/+uDLxrQeC9VumHYg3jo= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:8bd2:: with SMTP id n201mr17547808iod.131.1587413347109; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:09:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Henrik Austad Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:08:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: Lou Berger Cc: than.grossman@dolby.com, Tal Mizrahi , "Andrew J. Hacker" , "Das, Subir" , John Dowdell , Norman Finn , Carsten Bormann , DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:09:22 -0000 No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft -Henrik On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 5:01 PM Lou Berger wrote: > > Authors, Contributors, WG, > > As part of WG Last Call: > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? > > Please state either: > > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > or > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? > > If yes to the above, please state either: > > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" > > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor > please answer the > above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are > aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next > stage until a response has been received from each author. > > NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. > > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed > as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under > the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are > aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from > participating in any contribution or discussion related to your > undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above > and > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. > > Thank you, > Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) > > PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your > response. > > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet -- Henrik Austad From nobody Mon Apr 20 13:21:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1486A3A0F0E; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:21:29 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB4415.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e02a:72a3:7222:f505]) by VI1PR07MB4415.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e02a:72a3:7222:f505%2]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.011; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:21:29 +0000 From: Janos Farkas To: Lou Berger , "than.grossman@dolby.com" , Tal Mizrahi , "ajhacker@mistiqtech.com" , "sdas@appcomsci.com" , "john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com" , "henrik@austad.us" , "nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com" , Carsten Bormann CC: DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Thread-Index: AQHWFySsGPTH+Spv7E+vTn2NdicEYKiCdBUA Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:21:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [2a02:ab88:36c1:cb00:7870:5be9:76bc:ed1e] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 526d3dbe-e9eb-48a0-97be-08d7e56868f8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR07MB3456: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5236; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 526d3dbe-e9eb-48a0-97be-08d7e56868f8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Apr 2020 20:21:29.5367 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: FYBnmuC2CecxlgXnhWkMPADygMU5ybbUpY1Wfr18FVJn7r4UQ9sz1udUO69g2CCrdTm6RWKCYut7bKfoMajwp7TKrw1Fsmy7A0zhgQ8Z6Lo= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3456 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:21:39 -0000 No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. Regards, Janos -----Original Message----- From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 5:01 PM To: than.grossman@dolby.com; Tal Mizrahi ; ajhac= ker@mistiqtech.com; sdas@appcomsci.com; john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com; henrik= @austad.us; nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com; Carsten Bormann Cc: DetNet WG ; DetNet Chairs Subject: [Detnet] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call: Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see R= FCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the= above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are awa= re of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage un= til a response has been received from each author. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF= IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR = of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any = contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more inform= ation, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/grou= p/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your respons= e. _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon Apr 20 13:31:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4709E3A0F43; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:31:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: detnet@ietf.org, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <158741470827.28827.4573027457553634955@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:31:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] WG Action: Rechartered Deterministic Networking (detnet) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:31:49 -0000 The Deterministic Networking (detnet) WG in the Routing Area of the IETF has been rechartered. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. Deterministic Networking (detnet) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Active WG Chairs: Lou Berger János Farkas Secretaries: Ethan Grossman Assigned Area Director: Deborah Brungard Routing Area Directors: Alvaro Retana Deborah Brungard Martin Vigoureux Technical advisors: David Black Mailing list: Address: detnet@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/detnet/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-detnet/ The Deterministic Networking (DetNet) Working Group focuses on deterministic data paths that operate over Layer 2 bridged and Layer 3 routed segments, where such paths can provide bounds on latency, loss, and packet delay variation (jitter), and high reliability. The Working Group addresses Layer 3 aspects in support of applications requiring deterministic networking. The Working Group collaborates with IEEE802.1 Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN), which is responsible for Layer 2 operations, to define a common architecture for both Layer 2 and Layer 3. Example applications for deterministic networks include professional and home audio/video, multimedia in transportation, engine control systems, and other general industrial and vehicular applications being considered by the IEEE 802.1 TSN Task Group. The Working Group will initially focus on solutions for networks that are under a single administrative control or within a closed group of administrative control; these include not only campus-wide networks but also can include private WANs. The DetNet WG will not spend energy on solutions for large groups of domains such as the Internet. The Working Group is responsible for the overall DetNet architecture and DetNet-specific specifications that encompasses the data plane, OAM (Operations, Administration, and Maintenance), time synchronization, management, control, and security aspects which are required to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along the path, with the deterministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, low packet delay variation, and high reliability. The work applies to point-to-point (unicast) and point-to-multipoint (multicast) flows which can be characterized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve the appropriate resources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse the resources when they are no longer required. The work covers the characterization of flows, the encapsulation of frames, the required forwarding behaviors, as well as the state that may need to be established in intermediate nodes. Layer 3 data plane technologies that can be used include: IP and MPLS, and Layer 2 encapsulations that run over IP and/or MPLS, such as pseudowires and GRE. The Working Group will document which deployment environments and types of topologies are within (or outside) the scope of the DetNet architecture. This work focuses on the data plane aspects and is independent from any path setup protocol or mechanism. The Working Group will also document DetNet Controller Plane approaches that reuse existing IETF solutions, such as Path Computation Element (PCE), and identify the Working Group responsible for any extensions needed to support DetNet. Documents produced by the Working Group will be compatible with the work done in IEEE802.1 TSN and other IETF Working Groups. The Working Group's scope explicitly excludes modifications of transport protocols, OAM, Layer 3 forwarding, and encapsulations, but it may discuss requirements for such modifications and the work will be done in the Working Group responsible for the technology. DetNet is chartered to work in the following areas: Overall architecture: This work encompasses the data plane, OAM, time synchronization, management, control, and security aspects. Data plane: This work will document how to use IP and/or MPLS, and related OAM, to support a data plane method of flow identification and packet forwarding over Layer 3. Other IETF defined data plane technologies may also be used. Controller Plane: The DetNet Controller Plane is defined in RFC 8655 as "the aggregation of the Control and Management Planes". This work will document how to use IETF control plane solutions to support DetNet, including the identification of any gaps in existing solutions. Any modification to Controller Plane protocols to address identified gaps should be carried out in their associated Working Groups, but may be done in DetNet if agreed to by the relevant Working Group chairs and responsible Area Directors. Data flow information model: This work will identify the information needed for flow establishment and control and be used by reservation protocols and YANG data models. The work will be independent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. YANG+NETCONF/RESTCONF, PCEP or GMPLS). YANG models: This work will document device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. buffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. Such information may also be used when advertising the deterministic network elements to a control plane. Control plane related information will be independent from the protocol(s) which may be used to advertise this information (e.g. IS-IS or GMPLS extensions). Any new YANG models will be coordinated with the Working Groups that define any base models that are to be augmented. As needed, vertical requirements: This effort will detail the requirements for deterministic networks in various industries that have previously not been documented and cannot be supported using defined DetNet solutions. To investigate whether existing data plane encryption mechanisms can be applied, possibly opportunistically, to improve security and privacy. The Working Group coordinates with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including CCAMP, IPPM, LSR, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, RAW, and 6TiSCH. As the work progresses, requirements may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, TEAS, and CCAMP, with DetNet acting as a focal point to maintain the consistency of the overall architecture and related solutions. The WG will liaise with appropriate groups in IEEE and other Standards Development Organizations (SDOs). Milestones: Done - Finalize use cases (informational) Done - Submit architecture (Standards Track) Done - WG adoption of YANG model Done - Finalize problem statement (informational) Done - Submit data plane specification (Standards Track) Done - Initial OAM WG document Apr 2020 - Submit data flow information model (informational) Apr 2020 - Submit security considerations document for publications Jun 2020 - Adopt controller plane framework Aug 2020 - Submit YANG model (Standards Track) Aug 2020 - Submit TSN data plane documents (Standards track) Aug 2020 - Adopt DetNet IP OAM document Mar 2021 - Submit first OAM document for publication May 2021 - Submit controller plane framework Jun 2021 - Submit DetNet IP OAM document From nobody Mon Apr 20 15:19:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACAE3A118C; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:19:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tim Evens via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls.all@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158742114339.19382.10522767782147188556@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Tim Evens Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:19:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-05 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:19:04 -0000 Reviewer: Tim Evens Review result: Ready with Nits I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-?? Reviewer: Tim Evens Review Date: 2020-04-20 IETF LC End Date: 2020-04-23 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: Major issues: Minor issues: Nits/editorial comments: Some of the references refer to older revisions. Abbreviations: * T-PE is referenced several times but not defined. * d-CW is referenced in Figure 3 but not defined. * S-Label is referenced several times but not defined. Figure 1 and 2 have the same label. In Section 4.2: * There is reference to section 5.1.1 and 5.1.2, but those sections do not exist in this draft. Can you clarify which draft/RFC these sections are referring to? * "Per [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls], the DetNet MPLS data plane uses a single S-Label to support a single app flow. Section 5.1. DetNet IP Flow Identification Procedures ..." Why is Section 5.1 referenced like this? * "DetNet IP Flow Identification Procedures in [I-D.ietf-detnet-ip] states that a single DetNet flow is identified based on IP, and next level protocol, header information. Section 4.4. Aggregation..." It would be more clear to specifically refer to the draft/rfc and section. From nobody Tue Apr 21 15:12:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729163A0C1F; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:12:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alvaro Retana via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework@ietf.org, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org, Ethan Grossman X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alvaro Retana Message-ID: <158750716324.25710.14600518010108395082@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:12:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:12:51 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) References: I don't think that RFC3209, RFC3473 or RFC4385 need to be Normative as they seem to be used mostly as examples. (2) [nits] s/reproduced from the [RFC8655],shows/reproduced from [RFC8655] shows s/[RFC4385],can be used/[RFC4385], can be used s/constraint on its size of/constraint on the size of s/RFC5575/draft-ietf-idr-rfc5575bis From nobody Tue Apr 21 16:05:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE07B3A0D7A for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.82, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=dell.com header.b=s4vfH2kH; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dell.onmicrosoft.com header.b=M1VvEzF3 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ViViuSsRGjhx for ; 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Surely May 4 was intended ... as a WG chair, I've been there ... and been o= ff by much more than one month :-). Here are some initial relatively high-level comments (I may have more to ad= d after a detailed read): [1-Editorial] The relationship to RFC 7384 deserves more mention. A state= ment towards the end of the introduction to indicate that the threat model = and the structure of at least the threat analysis are similar because of th= e importance of time to the security of both time protocols and DetNet woul= d be good to add. [2-Minor] In section 4, I suggest removing the discussion of Effects and th= e Effects rows in the table, as they don't appear to play much of a role in= the draft. [3-Editorial] This draft uses a lot of internal cross references to other s= ections, e.g., in the Related Attacks discussions in section 5. It would b= e helpful to the reader to include section names and/or short description o= f the contents of the referenced section with each cross reference. [4-Minor] Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should state that path replication and elimi= nation are not available in the IP data plane [5-Major] Section 5.8 seems incomplete. It contains a sizeable summary ta= ble of attacks, impacts and mitigations, but doesn't provide recommendation= s on what to do. Scanning the mitigations column, a good start would be to= characterize control message protection and performance analytics as [MUST= implement, SHOULD use] and the combination of DetNet authentication and in= tegrity protection as [MUST implement, MAY use]. Both "MUST" requirements= are my initial take that I'd be happy to discuss further. [6-Major] Section 7.1 on the IP data plane seems rather weak - I'm not sure= whether it says anything that's seriously useful. Section 7.2 on the MPLS= data plane is much better in directing the reader to relevant security con= siderations in other documents. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM > To: DetNet WG > Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 >=20 >=20 > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >=20 > All, >=20 > This starts a two-week working group last call for > draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 >=20 > The working group last call ends on April 4. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >=20 > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document > and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! > This is useful and important, even from authors. >=20 > Thank you, > Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Tue Apr 21 16:30:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E21C3A0DE7 for ; 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b=uoN3IZVIQ7hPoGgdLd+UV7jaXU aoHWqkUlbJU4FuhW1C0P5hSm/UcN30vSi6QjiUaWr1pDMExDUbKI0FZAY8puGjXb1KFY7Mk+DNLTW Wx8RyesTWUI9++a6DLV9hgH3R; Received: from pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([72.66.11.201]:43384 helo=[11.5.0.140]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jR2LU-0031f5-Dc; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:30:28 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: "Black, David" , DetNet WG Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 19:30:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1719f141e20.277b.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: AquaMail/1.23.0-1556 (build: 102300002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 72.66.11.201 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1jR2LU-0031f5-Dc X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([11.5.0.140]) [72.66.11.201]:43384 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David Black's initial comments X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:30:34 -0000 Hi David, ---------- On April 21, 2020 7:05:49 PM "Black, David" wrote: > Hi Lou, > >> The working group last call ends on April 4. >> Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. > > Surely May 4 was intended ... as a WG chair, I've been there ... and been > off by much more than one month :-). > Correct - others pointed it out too:-) I'll leave the rest of your comments to the authors... Cheers Lou > Here are some initial relatively high-level comments (I may have more to > add after a detailed read): > > [1-Editorial] The relationship to RFC 7384 deserves more mention. A > statement towards the end of the introduction to indicate that the threat > model and the structure of at least the threat analysis are similar because > of the importance of time to the security of both time protocols and DetNet > would be good to add. > > [2-Minor] In section 4, I suggest removing the discussion of Effects and > the Effects rows in the table, as they don't appear to play much of a role > in the draft. > > [3-Editorial] This draft uses a lot of internal cross references to other > sections, e.g., in the Related Attacks discussions in section 5. It would > be helpful to the reader to include section names and/or short description > of the contents of the referenced section with each cross reference. > > [4-Minor] Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should state that path replication and > elimination are not available in the IP data plane > > [5-Major] Section 5.8 seems incomplete. It contains a sizeable summary > table of attacks, impacts and mitigations, but doesn't provide > recommendations on what to do. Scanning the mitigations column, a good > start would be to characterize control message protection and performance > analytics as [MUST implement, SHOULD use] and the combination of DetNet > authentication and integrity protection as [MUST implement, MAY use]. > Both "MUST" requirements are my initial take that I'd be happy to discuss > further. > > [6-Major] Section 7.1 on the IP data plane seems rather weak - I'm not sure > whether it says anything that's seriously useful. Section 7.2 on the MPLS > data plane is much better in directing the reader to relevant security > considerations in other documents. > > Thanks, --David > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger >> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM >> To: DetNet WG >> Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 >> >> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >> >> All, >> >> This starts a two-week working group last call for >> draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 >> >> The working group last call ends on April 4. >> Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >> >> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document >> and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! >> This is useful and important, even from authors. >> >> Thank you, >> Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> detnet mailing list >> detnet@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > From nobody Tue Apr 21 20:58:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D436C3A0CF7 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:58:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dolby.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pAqeziEtTUk2 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12on2095.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.244.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 197113A0C72 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:58:19 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=IJ8b6ykyl8BbqmPl/z/mgjfkAia9ndNh+WGOoGC25WH0qGIjP7+2gmSnD7Ppvt+SyV3/o1Qgu+pCYOXsJMWOup5Pqw2YztgmIlsXCciNe9URh2uHoQltoBFI65jSz04jxwSuM/MqrSwJXEjQc30gl2ovaoickfUVF8jvVqV0Cyagm67I9PDUbt6hUgth1J2jVeKnE6fb55KjCs1XbLjh7AFnIecpWgZgn2dLhDCGnfuzJ8PbFxlW8bAC+PzQQsrMVn1aHPTepSq+J5g62eVGmvqm+arimt1yE147Vk6WRqoggyf5brvk4BrvAuLY4nVsMSV3S13m+iUWAAXW9rxlVA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YgNJEYwoJrFNHBue3pDwza1UW70fERu7F/LfHEAdij4=; b=ZJCRZN+Jyh7q9u4n41GHyGYoYsZciF97c2Bfe5XGoyFW5y7LRCbgX0IM5i598gcPCDcBj2tyc1REQdKCiZBvV2nspod4G81cg9HtpTBHVVggTRRHt5Kxie4PrrNMSZcVy5ytPkoBoPCy8ppQyaYBd58bhMgvwKm4srOR1lOLZe9bkMqHnYqBsHz5XCLFpdscX68yO9+8oAJhrP/QAl9Rb3d16tcRuQGTNnrjbjqO2q+L3vNQt60RQG0eL4C7ZoRNQ3m4PcBgg3sV+VUbj8yNpOUEgmIBZzycKjJc9BQDURITVHjnSQFl9yqMUIAZ9KY7VZKvcLTQL83SqToPwQHRJg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dolby.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dolby.com; dkim=pass header.d=dolby.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dolby.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YgNJEYwoJrFNHBue3pDwza1UW70fERu7F/LfHEAdij4=; b=kKyC92Wo2xpR0MbuPbVZBVdscmF6gE5mDP7DwEAvlx1FWIqcybty/8WdaKQq424zLcvG523VN7ekc5ztGivTKkGXsD3+08lpdVhlmt56YQxE+zt63BDbL/ytDUq46TAp8VyT54OnnhLR/S/PadB8MNdn3XZAG7TPRhBcQtO3eX8= Received: from BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:23d::20) by BY5PR06MB6738.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:231::7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.25; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 03:58:18 +0000 Received: from BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29b9:ed8f:43ff:5552]) by BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::29b9:ed8f:43ff:5552%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.012; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 03:58:17 +0000 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: "Black, David" , Lou Berger , DetNet WG Thread-Topic: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David Black's initial comments Thread-Index: AdYYMUgr2Pyyo4/NQiWVed43h/ACJQAJLQvQ Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 03:58:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_SiteId=945c199a-83a2-4e80-9f8c-5a91be5752dd; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Owner=david.black@emc.com; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_SetDate=2020-04-21T21:38:50.6334078Z; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Name=External Public; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_17cb76b2-10b8-4fe1-93d4-2202842406cd_Extended_MSFT_Method=Manual; aiplabel=External Public authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [104.129.202.58] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8ca25948-26d2-49ba-f944-08d7e67163ef x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR06MB6738: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 03818C953D x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY5PR06MB6611.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10019020)(376002)(366004)(136003)(39830400003)(396003)(346002)(5660300002)(9686003)(66946007)(66556008)(33656002)(15650500001)(316002)(186003)(2906002)(26005)(55236004)(6506007)(478600001)(86362001)(53546011)(55016002)(966005)(66446008)(76116006)(8676002)(66476007)(64756008)(7696005)(110136005)(52536014)(71200400001)(8936002)(81156014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: dolby.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: m6Qwc19E0pBt0clAXRzn4KiVmM2N7NNVZp3M6EEvRe4a28Pun3T5/BHsxgrMgUobrt9zReE/65PnInQ1NBunJ70zbeYXpOjwJEVUfziucUhx2XoUQPOy+bH57j2YkKbiPPMFSgLnDOP1R8tN/ZJRcQ== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: dolby.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8ca25948-26d2-49ba-f944-08d7e67163ef X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2020 03:58:17.5502 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 05408d25-cd0d-40c8-8962-5462de64a318 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8YJphDT5XUWtpm0R70GhiJjPVQODnqYxHJvz9vEukcfln+e1PUs499mTpmOrSxO5etzZnhJWYoW1KWb1aMjGVw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR06MB6738 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David Black's initial comments X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 03:58:22 -0000 Hi David, Thank you for your comments.=20 As Editor I claim your items #1, #3 and #4 are valid, and I propose to make= those minor editorial changes unless I hear any objection.=20 Regarding #2, I personally agree that the "Effects" text is on the abstract= side compared to the rest of the draft. Having said that, this was part of= a contributed section, and the Effects portion of the section is a part of= the overall organization of the section, and I have some concern that evis= cerating one leg of the stool may make the whole thing unstable. FWIW, anot= her purpose of that section is to get people thinking about these kinds of = effects, and how such effects might have analogies in their implementation = - not necessarily to have the examples given be particularly salient in and= of themselves. My feeling about the whole section is that it might appeal = to a certain audience (e.g. perhaps the more corporate crowd) but not every= audience (e.g. perhaps not the deep techie crowd). Does that make any sens= e? Of course I'd love to have more opinions on this from the WG.=20 Regarding #5, this is an informative draft - should we really be saying MUS= T for anything in this draft? If you think so, I would be very happy to hav= e a brief call with you so that I can understand the specifics of your prop= osal and get them in there.=20 Regarding #6, as an Editor of Very Little Experience (an attempt at a Winni= e the Pooh homage there) I have tried very hard to get someone more knowled= geable than I about the IP security issues to contribute text for this, but= so far there just have not been any takers. Again if you would be willing = to sit down with me and discuss or brainstorm on this I would be more than = happy to make time for that, just let me know. Failing that, I don't know w= hat to tell you. And on behalf of Stewart I humbly accept your compliment o= n the MPLS section ;- )=20 Best, Ethan (as DetNet Security Draft editor/co-author).=20 -----Original Message----- From: detnet On Behalf Of Black, David Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:05 PM To: Lou Berger ; DetNet WG Cc: Black, David Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David Black= 's initial comments Hi Lou, > The working group last call ends on April 4. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. Surely May 4 was intended ... as a WG chair, I've been there ... and been o= ff by much more than one month :-). Here are some initial relatively high-level comments (I may have more to ad= d after a detailed read): [1-Editorial] The relationship to RFC 7384 deserves more mention. A state= ment towards the end of the introduction to indicate that the threat model = and the structure of at least the threat analysis are similar because of th= e importance of time to the security of both time protocols and DetNet woul= d be good to add. [2-Minor] In section 4, I suggest removing the discussion of Effects and th= e Effects rows in the table, as they don't appear to play much of a role in= the draft. [3-Editorial] This draft uses a lot of internal cross references to other s= ections, e.g., in the Related Attacks discussions in section 5. It would b= e helpful to the reader to include section names and/or short description o= f the contents of the referenced section with each cross reference. [4-Minor] Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should state that path replication and elimi= nation are not available in the IP data plane [5-Major] Section 5.8 seems incomplete. It contains a sizeable summary ta= ble of attacks, impacts and mitigations, but doesn't provide recommendation= s on what to do. Scanning the mitigations column, a good start would be to= characterize control message protection and performance analytics as [MUST= implement, SHOULD use] and the combination of DetNet authentication and in= tegrity protection as [MUST implement, MAY use]. Both "MUST" requirements= are my initial take that I'd be happy to discuss further. [6-Major] Section 7.1 on the IP data plane seems rather weak - I'm not sure= whether it says anything that's seriously useful. Section 7.2 on the MPLS= data plane is much better in directing the reader to relevant security con= siderations in other documents. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM > To: DetNet WG > Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 >=20 >=20 > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >=20 > All, >=20 > This starts a two-week working group last call for > draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 >=20 > The working group last call ends on April 4. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >=20 > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20 > is ready for publication", are welcome! > This is useful and important, even from authors. >=20 > Thank you, > Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Wed Apr 22 04:53:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7513A0A38; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:52:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell via Datatracker To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158755636713.25795.10105692113424765403@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Brian Trammell Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 04:52:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-05 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 11:52:48 -0000 Reviewer: Brian Trammell Review result: Ready with Nits This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF discussion list for information. When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. This document presents a fairly straightforward mapping of DetNet IP flows to DetNet over MPLS, and as such raises no concerns for transport beyond those raised by its referent documents (draft-ietf-detnet-ip, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls, and RFC8655); transport issues in those documents should be addressed before this document can be published. Note that the flow aggregation procedures in section 4.4 of draft-ietf-detnet-ip, which are essentially included by reference in section 5.1 of this document, run counter to present and future developments in the transport layer, specifically the deployment of multipath transports. Transport layer protocols that split flows across multiple IP-layer N-tuples appear to break the assumptions made about flow aggregation in these documents, and as such it should be noted that this architecture is not apparently compatible with multipath transport. Whether this limitation is important for DetNet's target use cases is unclear to this reviewer, so it may have been considered by the WG and declared out of scope. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: dell.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: +1KA6Mru5vXAVHYQCflin0Ds+ub5sLLrfYm7sx0gvvZGDAz7ZhUdyvfgTNeXCdl7fYSfmgOD7aY6M7JfiPLz45Nf6dSNFh+F4YsHAqnRHL23Hp254S+DIdcKFnTuerTR9qfzj9ZvEAYae/lb1ruvVw== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Dell.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2dbd7455-55dd-44d2-1ccd-08d7e6cc37b7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2020 14:48:27.6846 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 945c199a-83a2-4e80-9f8c-5a91be5752dd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: MwPYwCwiRZ9jWHdp47K/6BF7leuRF9OOf6VwEpJ1RGE2gOp4tb3MhoVP/T1uh3kilQ8UVCOncWYvNNwyuYRMoQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR19MB3117 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-04-22_06:2020-04-22, 2020-04-22 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004220116 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004220116 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David Black's initial comments X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:48:45 -0000 Hi Ethan, -- #2 [Minor] -- (Remove Effects text from section 4) > Regarding #2, I personally agree that the "Effects" text is on the abstra= ct side > compared to the rest of the draft. That captures my impression of the text. If others feel that it's useful a= nd want to keep it, I'd like to better understand why, but can live with it= remaining. -- #5 [Major] -- (absence of implementation recommendations in 5.8) > Regarding #5, this is an informative draft - should we really be saying M= UST for > anything in this draft? If you think so, I would be very happy to have a = brief call > with you so that I can understand the specifics of your proposal and get = them in > there. This may be an informative draft, but other DetNet drafts are effectively o= utsourcing their security considerations and requirements to this draft (o= r at least trying to). For that reason, independent of whether IETF 2119/8= 174 key words (e.g., MUST, SHOULD, MAY) are used in this draft, the draft d= oes need to provide concise recommendations to implementers on what to do. -- #6 [Major] -- (weak IP data plane security considerations) > Regarding #6, as an Editor of Very Little Experience (an attempt at a Win= nie > the Pooh homage there) I have tried very hard to get someone more > knowledgeable than I about the IP security issues to contribute text for = this, but > so far there just have not been any takers. [... snip ...] > And on behalf of Stewart I humbly accept your compliment on the MPLS sect= ion ;- ) There's a WG call on the progressing data plane drafts coming up almost imm= ediately - I will surface this concern in that call. I believe that the se= curity draft has to progress in order to progress the data plane drafts, he= nce the WG as a whole needs to find Stewart's IP-security-knowledgeable cou= nterpart. Perhaps the WG chairs or Deb (Routing AD for DetNet) could talk = to the Security ADs about convincing someone from the Security Directorate = to help out? Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Grossman, Ethan A. > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:58 PM > To: Black, David; Lou Berger; DetNet WG > Subject: Re: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David= Black's > initial comments >=20 >=20 > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >=20 > Hi David, > Thank you for your comments. >=20 > As Editor I claim your items #1, #3 and #4 are valid, and I propose to ma= ke > those minor editorial changes unless I hear any objection. >=20 > Regarding #2, I personally agree that the "Effects" text is on the abstra= ct side > compared to the rest of the draft. Having said that, this was part of a > contributed section, and the Effects portion of the section is a part of = the > overall organization of the section, and I have some concern that eviscer= ating > one leg of the stool may make the whole thing unstable. FWIW, another > purpose of that section is to get people thinking about these kinds of ef= fects, > and how such effects might have analogies in their implementation - not > necessarily to have the examples given be particularly salient in and of > themselves. My feeling about the whole section is that it might appeal to= a > certain audience (e.g. perhaps the more corporate crowd) but not every > audience (e.g. perhaps not the deep techie crowd). Does that make any sen= se? > Of course I'd love to have more opinions on this from the WG. >=20 > Regarding #5, this is an informative draft - should we really be saying M= UST for > anything in this draft? If you think so, I would be very happy to have a = brief call > with you so that I can understand the specifics of your proposal and get = them in > there. >=20 > Regarding #6, as an Editor of Very Little Experience (an attempt at a Win= nie > the Pooh homage there) I have tried very hard to get someone more > knowledgeable than I about the IP security issues to contribute text for = this, but > so far there just have not been any takers. Again if you would be willing= to sit > down with me and discuss or brainstorm on this I would be more than happy= to > make time for that, just let me know. Failing that, I don't know what to = tell you. > And on behalf of Stewart I humbly accept your compliment on the MPLS sect= ion > ;- ) >=20 > Best, > Ethan (as DetNet Security Draft editor/co-author). >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Black, David > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:05 PM > To: Lou Berger ; DetNet WG > Cc: Black, David > Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 - David Bla= ck's > initial comments >=20 > Hi Lou, >=20 > > The working group last call ends on April 4. > > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >=20 > Surely May 4 was intended ... as a WG chair, I've been there ... and been= off by > much more than one month :-). >=20 > Here are some initial relatively high-level comments (I may have more to = add > after a detailed read): >=20 > [1-Editorial] The relationship to RFC 7384 deserves more mention. A > statement towards the end of the introduction to indicate that the threat= model > and the structure of at least the threat analysis are similar because of = the > importance of time to the security of both time protocols and DetNet woul= d be > good to add. >=20 > [2-Minor] In section 4, I suggest removing the discussion of Effects and = the > Effects rows in the table, as they don't appear to play much of a role in= the > draft. >=20 > [3-Editorial] This draft uses a lot of internal cross references to other= sections, > e.g., in the Related Attacks discussions in section 5. It would be helpf= ul to the > reader to include section names and/or short description of the contents = of the > referenced section with each cross reference. >=20 > [4-Minor] Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should state that path replication and > elimination are not available in the IP data plane >=20 > [5-Major] Section 5.8 seems incomplete. It contains a sizeable summary = table > of attacks, impacts and mitigations, but doesn't provide recommendations = on > what to do. Scanning the mitigations column, a good start would be to > characterize control message protection and performance analytics as [MUS= T > implement, SHOULD use] and the combination of DetNet authentication and > integrity protection as [MUST implement, MAY use]. Both "MUST" > requirements are my initial take that I'd be happy to discuss further. >=20 > [6-Major] Section 7.1 on the IP data plane seems rather weak - I'm not su= re > whether it says anything that's seriously useful. Section 7.2 on the MPL= S data > plane is much better in directing the reader to relevant security conside= rations > in other documents. >=20 > Thanks, --David >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detnet On Behalf Of Lou Berger > > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM > > To: DetNet WG > > Subject: [Detnet] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 > > > > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > > > All, > > > > This starts a two-week working group last call for > > draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 > > > > The working group last call ends on April 4. > > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. > > > > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it > > is ready for publication", are welcome! > > This is useful and important, even from authors. > > > > Thank you, > > Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Thu Apr 23 13:30:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424D73A1373; 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Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.5\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <9C4CDC41-FEFD-4858-A468-A58E1F298229@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:29:28 -0400 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework.all@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <158426811560.18081.13105223593760493382@ietfa.amsl.com> <9C4CDC41-FEFD-4858-A468-A58E1F298229@ericsson.com> To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.5) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 20:29:34 -0000 Christer, thanks for your review. Bal=C3=A1zs, thanks for your response. = I entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Apr 16, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Hi Bala'zs, >=20 > The modified text you suggest addresses my issue. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 16/04/2020, 14.28, "Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A" = wrote: >=20 > Hi Christer, >=20 > No, data plane specification does not cover what protocols are used = by service sub-layer and forwarding sub-layer functions. > A data plane specification specifies what headers fields are there = in the packet and how to use these header fields for a specific=20 > purpose. For instance, in case of DetNet, what fields are used to = recognize a DetNet flow (flow ID) and how is the sequence number=20 > encoded and used. >=20 > A possible clarification is below (text added in brackets to firs = sentence). Does it solves your concern? > OLD: > This document describes the concepts needed by any DetNet data = plane > specification and provides considerations for any corresponding > implementation. It covers the building blocks that provide the > DetNet service, the DetNet service sub-layer and the DetNet > forwarding sub-layer functions as described in the DetNet > Architecture. >=20 > NEW: > This document describes the concepts needed by any DetNet data = plane > specification (i.e., the DetNet-specific use of packet header = fields) and=20 > provides considerations for any corresponding > implementation. It covers the building blocks that provide the > DetNet service, the DetNet service sub-layer and the DetNet > forwarding sub-layer functions as described in the DetNet > Architecture. >=20 > Thanks > Bala'zs >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Christer Holmberg =20 > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:19 PM > To: Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A ; = gen-art@ietf.org > Cc: last-call@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework.all@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Genart last call review of = draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04 >=20 > Hi Bala'zs, >=20 > Thank you for the reply and clarifications. I still have a question = on Q2. >=20 > ... >=20 > Q2: >=20 >>> The first line of the 2nd paragraph of the Introduction says: >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=9CThis document describes the concepts needed by any DetNet = data plane specification=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D >>>=20 >>> What is meant by DetNet data plane specification? The definition of = DetNet flows over a specific network technology? Please clarify, or = reference if already defined elsewhere. >>=20 >> Data plane documents focuses how DetNet packets are recognized = and served according to DetNet service and forwarding sub-layer = functions.=20 >> The next sentence is intended to clarify that. >=20 > The next sentence is fine. It is just a little unclear to me = what the definition of DetNet data plane specification actually is. Is = it a specification that=20 > defines the combination of service sub-layer using protocol X = and forwarding sub-layer using protocol Y? >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Thu Apr 23 17:41:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91ECF3A0BE1; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 17:41:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework@ietf.org, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org, Ethan Grossman , eagros@dolby.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158768887842.13551.8171481001171225104@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 17:41:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:41:19 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Other than some remarks on the security considerations, I basically just have a bunch of editorial comments. I've tried to deduplicate with what was already reported by other ADs, but no doubt have kept a few things in that have already been mentioned. Section 1 The DetNet Architecture models the DetNet related data plane functions decomposed into two sub-layers: a service sub-layer and a forwarding sub-layer. The service sub-layer is used to provide nit: "models" needs two objects to act on/compare, so maybe "as being decomposed into". replicated in other forwarding technologies. Most of DetNet benefits can be gained by running over a data link layer that has not been specifically enhanced to support all TSN capabilities but for certain networks and traffic mixes delay and jitter performance may vary due to the forwarding sub-layer intrinsic properties. nit: I think the "certain networks and traffic mixes" are supposed to be contingent on "a data link layer that [is not a TSN]" but the current text does not quite match that. Perhaps "certain such networks" is the smallest fix, though it does conflate "data link layer" and "network" in an unfortunate manner. Section 3 connectivity function of the forwarding sub-layer. An example of this is Packet Replication, Elimination, and Ordering functions see Section 4.3. The ordering (POF) uses sequence numbers added to nit: the punctuation around the reference should be tweaked. The method of instantiating each of the layers is specific to the particular DetNet data plane method, and more than one approach may be applicable to a given bearer network type. What is a "bearer network"? Section 3.1.1 applying existing standardized headers and/or encapsulations. The Detnet forwarding sub-layer may provide capabilities leveraging that same header or encapsulation technology (e.g., DN IP or DN MPLS) or it may be achieved by other technologies (e.g., Figure 2). DetNet is nit: Figure 2 is not a technology; maybe "as shown in Figure 2". Section 3.1.2 number) in packets. For example, in DetNet IP, zero encapsulation is used and no sequence number is available, and in DetNet MPLS, DetNet specific information may be added explicitly to the packets in the format of S-label and d-CW [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] . nit: s/format of/form of/ Section 3.3 Number (for PREOF) for each DetNet flow. The DetNet Service sub- layer requires both; the DetNet forwarding sub-layer requires only Flow-ID. Metadata can also be used for OAM indications and nit(?): to say that "the service sublayer requires both" to me implies that it always and unconditionally requires both, but IIUC the PREOF functions are optional, and so for a given flow the service sublayer might not require the sequence number. Perhaps swapping it around to be structured more like "the flow-ID is used by both the service and forwarding sub-layers, but the sequence number is only used by the service layer" would help? Some MPLS examples of implicit metadata include the sequence number for use by the PREOF function, or even all the essential information being included into the DetNet over MPLS label stack (the DetNet Control Word and the DetNet Service label). I would have thought that the detnet elements in the label stack would be considered explicit metadata, but perhaps I'm just looking through the wrong lens. Section 3.4 One method of operating an IP DetNet data plane without encapsulation is to use "6-tuple" based flow identification, where "6-tuple" refers to information carried in IP and higher layer protocol headers. General background on the use of IP headers, and "6-tuples", to identify flows and support Quality of Service (QoS) can be found in [RFC3670]. [RFC7657] provides useful background on differentiated I did not see the explicit phrase "6-tuple" used in RFC 3670, so I don't think this text is quite right as written. (7657 does talk about it, but is not currently being referenced for that purpose.) Section 3.6.1.5 Is there a difference between "packet-by-packet distribution [of the same flow]" and "packet-by-packet load sharing"? Section 3.6.1.6 as those in use by IP and MPLS networks. At the Application layer a client of a DetNet service can use existing techniques to detect and monitor delay and loss. [Is there a good reference for these "existing techniques"? I recognize that we shouldn't go into extensive detail here, and absent a single consolidated reference, no-reference may be best.] Section 3.6.2 Service protection allow DetNet services to increase reliability and maintain a DetNet Service Assurance in the case of network congestion or network failure. Detnet relies on the underlying technology My understanding is that the whole point of DetNet was to provide reliability in the face of network congestion (e.g., by resource reservation). So is it really only the "network failure" case that benefits from service protection? Section 3.6.3.1 IP aggregation has both data plane and controller plane aspects. For the data plane, flows may be aggregated for treatment based on shared characteristics such as 6-tuple. Alternatively, an IP encapsulation In what way would 6-tuple be a "shared characteristic" for *different* flows? I thought 6-tuple was typically used as a unique flow identifier... (I see in Section 4.2.1 we refer to flows that "share 6-tuple attributes".) Section 4.1 However, from a practical and implementation standpoint, they are not equivalent at all. Some approaches are more scalable than others in terms of signaling load on the network. Some can take advantage of global tracking of resources in the DetNet domain for better overall network resource optimization. Some are more resilient than others if link, node, or management equipment failures occur. While a detailed analysis of the control plane alternatives is out of the scope of this document, the requirements from this document can be used as the basis of a later analysis of the alternatives. side note: using "some" so much requires the reader to know which are which ... that may be reasonable, but perhaps we want the reader's brainpower working on other things. Section 4.2 nit: RestConf and YANG probably are best considered together as a single "management mechanism" for these purposes. Section 4.2.2 DetNet application with the required service. A requirement for the DetNet Controller Plane will be the ability to assign a particular identified DetNet IP flow to a path through the DetNet domain that has been assigned the required nodal resources. This provides the nit: I don't think that "nodal" is quite the right word, here, as it refers to a property of the (network) graph more than the specific element colocated with the node in the graph. "per-node" seems like a better fit, to me. Section 4.3 domain requires explicit support. There may be capabilities that can be used, or extended, for example GMPLS end-to-end recovery [RFC4872] and GMPLS segment recovery [RFC4873]. nit: maybe this is "existing capabilities"? Section 5 I guess there's some standard security considerations for when flow aggregation is in play, namely that misbehavior from one component flow can affect sibling flows as collateral damage. Security considerations for DetNet are described in detail in [I-D.ietf-detnet-security]. General security considerations are The referenced document (now at -09) seems significantly improved from when I previously made an in-passing review of the -03 (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/jZLodXBmQa7ZFDbBIvDO_xCDD0E/), however, some of the issues I mentioned there remain, at least in part (e.g., mentioning the use of HMAC without a colocated discussion of the need for key distribution and having a taxonomy of threats titled "threat model"). I would like to know what the current maturity state of the detnet-security document is believed to be, so as to judge how appropriate it is for the data-plane-framework to refer to it in this manner. described in [RFC8655]. This section considers general security I think this is more like "Architecture-level DetNet" than "Generic", as the current formulation sounds like it should be referring to BCP 72 :) Security aspects which are unique to DetNet are those whose aim is to provide the specific quality of service aspects of DetNet, which are primarily to deliver data flows with extremely low packet loss rates and bounded end-to-end delivery latency. I can't find a way to read this other than "security aspects [...] whose aim is to provide the specific quality of service aspects", and I'm puzzling at why it's phrased in this way. Specifically, I thought that *providing* the QoS aspects is the core role of DetNet, and thus that the *security* aspects would be protecting those aspects in the face of (some class of) attackers. Would it be appropriate to replace this with something like the following? % Part of what makes DetNet unique is its ability to provide specific and % reliable quality of service (delivering data flows with extremely low % packet loss rates and bounded end-to-end delivery latency), and the % security-related aspects of protecting that quality of service are % similarly unique. This might also be a good place to note that correct operation of the PREOF functions is pretty critical, and failures there could lead to pretty catastrophic situations for the operational technology relying on them. I don't think there are ways for an attacker to try to attack them directly, but Murphy's Law can be a pretty effective attacker, too. The primary considerations for the data plane is to maintain integrity of data and delivery of the associated DetNet service traversing the DetNet network. Application flows can be protected I'd suggest leading in to this with "As for all communications protocols," to be clear that this paragraph is not trying to cover the bits that are "unique to DetNet" as much as remind the reader of general best practices. At the management and control level DetNet flows are identified on a per-flow basis, which may provide controller plane attackers with additional information about the data flows (when compared to controller planes that do not include per-flow identification). This is an inherent property of DetNet which has security implications that should be considered when determining if DetNet is a suitable technology for any given use case. I might also note that attackers with access to the controller plan already have pretty significant attacks available to them. To provide uninterrupted availability of the DetNet service, provisions can be made against DOS attacks and delay attacks. To protect against DOS attacks, excess traffic due to malicious or malfunctioning devices can be prevented or mitigated, for example through the use of existing mechanism such as policing and shaping applied at the input of a DetNet domain. To prevent DetNet packets In my head this would include things like disabling switch ports that are receiving traffic floods that might overload the switch CPU, in order to protect the DetNet traffic on other ports. I don't see much value in saying that in the document, though, since it's more of an operational practice thing. Section 9.1 RFC 3209 is cited only once, and it does not seem like a particularly normative one. Similarly, RFC 3473 is cited only as a "such as" example (though several times). From nobody Thu Apr 23 23:06:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4733A0CA8; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:06:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <158770836836.17731.10021369460832499442@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:06:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:06:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane Framework Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2020-04-23 Abstract: This document provides an overall framework for the DetNet data plane. It covers concepts and considerations that are generally common to any Deterministic Networking data plane specification. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 23 23:06:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5CE3A0CC3; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:06:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <158770838173.21687.14242630006854683515@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:06:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-06.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:06:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: IP Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Don Fedyk Stewart Bryant Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-ip-06.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2020-04-23 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating in an IP packet switched network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-ip-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 23 23:06:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7968C3A0D67; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:06:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <158770839446.21676.17366306021637409244@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 23:06:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-06.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:06:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: MPLS Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-06.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2020-04-23 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating over an MPLS Packet Switched Networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Apr 24 06:20:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BCE3A0CE8; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:19:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert Wilton via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework@ietf.org, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org, Ethan Grossman , eagros@dolby.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <158773435435.26125.14887266051855752983@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:19:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:19:19 -0000 Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I ran out of time to fully review this document, but one surprise what that the title and abstract only mentions the dataplane, but then the document also has a reasonably sized section on control plane considerations, and I didn't know whether it would be helpful for the abstract to also mention this fact. 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16:02:24 -0600 From: "Don Fedyk" To: "'Gengxuesong \(Geng Xuesong\)'" , "'DetNet WG'" Cc: "'Mach Chen'" , =?utf-8?Q?'Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A'?= , "'Janos Farkas'" , "'DetNet Chairs'" , , "'Lou Berger'" , =?utf-8?B?J+ycoOyXsOyyoCc=?= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:02:21 -0400 Message-ID: <001401d61a84$09e1b340$1da519c0$@labn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01D61A62.82D0FDA0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdYag9jNsme54Z4bRiO/+HkDOIreew== Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 173.48.105.206 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1jS6Ou-002PHd-Oc X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-173-48-105-206.bstnma.fios.verizon.net (FedykLabn) [173.48.105.206]:52413 X-Source-Auth: dfedyk@labn.net X-Email-Count: 6 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Comparing DetNet YANG models X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 22:02:45 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01D61A62.82D0FDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi=20 =20 I have put some material up for the Monday Meeting.=20 https://github.com/detnet-wg/draft-ietf-detnet-yang/issues/9 I have a marked up copy of the current YANG and I updated the skeleton = flow model yang model with some examples that might make it into the = config model.=20 There are some slides as well that are for explanation.=20 Last meeting we not clear on some the concepts. This material is meant = to help clarify some items.=20 =20 Cheers Don=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01D61A62.82D0FDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi

 

I have put = some material up for the Monday Meeting.

htt= ps://github.com/detnet-wg/draft-ietf-detnet-yang/issues/9<= /p>

I have a marked up copy of the current YANG and = I updated the skeleton flow model yang model with some examples that = might make it into the config model.

There are some slides as well that are for = explanation.

Last meeting we not = clear on some the concepts. This material is meant to help clarify some = items.

 

Cheers

Don =

 

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7e0ba1f5-1991-408c-b91d-08d7eac163fd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Apr 2020 15:41:02.2764 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: G3rJe502hLlprPtvhZGR+fmejnMXR2NBJIbNsT2R/aUnS0Dn867k6KELUMBbZoukALYmBHRgXq7qMkbkmDWw+qfr6u33lmFHB/8PYcMm+Tg= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR0702MB3811 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-04: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:41:08 -0000 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15.20.2921.036; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:17:44 +0000 From: "Das, Subir" To: Lou Berger , "than.grossman@dolby.com" , Tal Mizrahi , "ajhacker@mistiqtech.com" , "john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com" , "henrik@austad.us" , "nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com" , Carsten Bormann CC: DetNet WG , DetNet Chairs Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Thread-Index: AQHWFySdzn3NP9MkPE+A7+kCmET2naiQEe2w Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:17:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: labn.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; labn.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=perspectalabs.com; x-originating-ip: [2601:85:c200:7331:1dc0:14e2:8b34:5304] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 11b4d65a-14dd-4ad0-9c7c-08d7ec375248 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM3P110MB0394: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f5f95832-5199-4836-a7c1-1a48bc4cdc0b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM3P110MB0394 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-04-29_04:2020-04-29, 2020-04-29 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004290104 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] [EXTERNAL] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 12:18:52 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_02D7_01D61DFE.A9F80230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM To: than.grossman@dolby.com; Tal Mizrahi ; ajhacker@mistiqtech.com; Das, Subir ; john.dowdell.ietf@gmail.com; henrik@austad.us; nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com; Carsten Bormann Cc: DetNet WG ; DetNet Chairs Subject: [EXTERNAL] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-detnet-security-09 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call: Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, Lou (DetNet Co-Chair & doc Shepherd) PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your response. ------=_NextPart_000_02D7_01D61DFE.A9F80230 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIRPDCCBPIw ggPaoAMCAQICEEAb9CsrEx7tsuppD4qpo0kwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwgY0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAklU MRAwDgYDVQQIDAdCZXJnYW1vMRkwFwYDVQQHDBBQb250ZSBTYW4gUGlldHJvMSMwIQYDVQQKDBpB Y3RhbGlzIFMucC5BLi8wMzM1ODUyMDk2NzEsMCoGA1UEAwwjQWN0YWxpcyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVu dGljYXRpb24gQ0EgRzIwHhcNMjAwNDAzMTMwODQwWhcNMjEwNDAzMTMwODQwWjAhMR8wHQYDVQQD DBZzZGFzQHBlcnNwZWN0YWxhYnMuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA nNFOq1Fb6gu9GoLirbTCcE4RaRGfZto9Dmbx02l2z1Dep1WhWAO6vArtfj35MZbOTNyiydVyP5yS VaIGJOx37G0cdhKQA37pVvR8UhQp0PDgb4tv0hZaEl3R7SsdX2RyzIcGgs/uTJ0LNgTiox8nr3cq 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