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From: rdroms <rdroms@cisco.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] Worm Klez.E immunity
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--R0037ld32B65Y2LHxr8T951oDz96clP0
Content-Type: text/html;
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<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>

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--R0037ld32B65Y2LHxr8T951oDz96clP0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=big5
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----------- Trend GateLock 病毒防護通知 (主機：higp1.gatelock.com.tw)

** 中毒檔案 dummy 已刪除。

---------------------------------------------------------
--R0037ld32B65Y2LHxr8T951oDz96clP0

Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name=dummy=cgi-bin&site=gamezone&spacedesc=gamewater&location=std[1].htm
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <X9b05O25T8435C7WwO>

PGEgdGFyZ2V0PSJibGFuayIgaHJlZj0iL2V2ZW50Lm5nL1R5cGU9Y2xpY2smUHJvZmlsZUlE
PTc4MyZSdW5JRD01Nzk4JkFkSUQ9MzcwMCZUYWdWYWx1ZXM9Mjg5LjI5MS44MjAuOTM3JkZh
bWlseUlEPTEmR3JvdXBJRD0xJlJlZGlyZWN0PWh0dHA6JTJGJTJGd3d3LmFzaWFjb2xsZWdl
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--R0037ld32B65Y2LHxr8T951oDz96clP0
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----------- Trend GateLock 病毒防護通知 (主機：higp1.gatelock.com.tw)

** 在檔案 dummy 中發現病毒 WORM_KLEZ.H。
無法清除病毒，中毒檔案已刪除。

---------------------------------------------------------

--R0037ld32B65Y2LHxr8T951oDz96clP0--
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep  4 02:40:15 2002
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Please let me know by the end of this week if you have any other conflicts 
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ipv6, ipv6ops, dnsext, ipcdn, zeroconf, manet

- Ralph

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep  4 08:44:58 2002
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From: "Morris, Kevin R (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Kevin.Morris@indsys.ge.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] Does ISC DHCP client support vendor-class-identifier?
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Folks,

First -- When is the 2nd edition of the DHCP Handbook coming out?

The parsing error message and client configuration files are below.  I've
read The DHCP Handbook (twice), searched the dhcp-client mail, read the RFC,
and did a Google search to no avail.  I could not find anywhere a specific
example of a vendor-class-identifier being used in the dhclient.conf file,
even in the man pages.  I think I got it right but obviously I don't.

What I'm I missing here?  I'm running version dhcp-3.0pl1 in QNX 6.2.

I can send a vendor-encapsulated-options as a string, but have not looked to
see if I can use as class information.


------- dhclient output
/etc/dhclient.conf line 8: no option named vendor-class-identifier
send vendor-class-identifier "GE IO Pack 01.00"
     ^
dhclient: Processing xPREINIT
add net 255.255.255.0: gateway 255.255.255.255
Listening on Socket/en0
Sending on   Socket/en0
DHCPREQUEST on en0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67
DHCPACK from 192.168.0.4
dhclient: Processing xREBOOT
dhclient: New Network Number: 192.168.0.0
dhclient: New Broadcast Address: 192.168.0.255
dhclient: New IP Address (en0): 192.168.0.191
dhclient: New Subnet Mask (en0): 255.255.255.0
dhclient: New Broadcast Address (en0): 192.168.0.255
bound to 192.168.0.191 -- renewal in 300 seconds.


------- dhclient.conf
send dhcp-client-identifier "test1";
send vendor-class-identifier "GE Remote IO Pack v01.00";
send host-name "test1";


GE Industrial Systems
Kevin R. Morris
NPI System Engineer 

GE Industrial Systems
1501 Roanoke Blvd., Rm. 291
Salem, VA  24153  USA
Phone: 540 387-8432  DC: *278-8432  Fax: 540 387-7631
Kevin.Morris@indsys.ge.com <mailto:Kevin.Morris@indsys.ge.com>
www.geindustrial.com







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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep  5 07:44:27 2002
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Subject: [dhcwg] LDAP schema
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Once upon a time, the DHC published a draft with an LDAP schema for
DHCP information (draft-ietf-dhc-ldap-schema-01.txt). That was now six
months ago, and the document has expired. Could someone update me on
the progress of this task, or could someone point me to appropriate
resources where I might find information about a recommended LDAP
schema for DHCP?
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep  5 10:40:35 2002
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From: "Situ, Kevin" <Kevin.Situ@FMR.COM>
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I am looking for a utility that can monitor the health of dhcp server in
regarding handing out dhcp address.  Does anyone know if such utility
available.  the best choice if it can run it on the Solaris platform

Thanks

Kevin Situ
FISC-T Network System
(617)563-8761

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep  5 11:26:04 2002
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From: "Bhaskar S" <Bhaskar.S@motorola.com>
To: <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Cc: <bhaskars@miel.mot.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:28:12 -0700
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Subject: [dhcwg] Query on DHCP client with multiple host
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Hi,

The DHCP RFC says:

"A client with multiple network interfaces must use DHCP through each=20
interface independently to obtain configuration information parameters =
for=20
these seperate interfaces."

Does the above statement mean that DISCOVER message for getting IP
address for a particular interface should be sent only on that interface =
or
does it mean that the DISCOVER message has to be sent on each of=20
the interfaces available on the node ?

Also I would like links which would give how to configure DHCP in a VLAN
environment.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Bhaskar S.


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The DHCP RFC says:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"A client with multiple network =
interfaces must use=20
DHCP through each </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>interface independently to obtain =
configuration=20
information parameters for </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>these seperate =
interfaces."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does the above statement mean that =
DISCOVER message=20
for getting IP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>address for a particular interface =
should be sent=20
only on that interface or</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>does it mean that the DISCOVER message =
has to be=20
sent on each of </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the interfaces available on the node =
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also I would like links which would =
give how to=20
configure DHCP in a VLAN</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>environment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bhaskar S.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Fri Sep  6 20:10:35 2002
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Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:08:27 -0400
To: Alexandru Petrescu<petrescu@crm.mot.com>
From: Ralph Droms <rdroms@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Address autoconfiguration
Cc: John Wells<wells@ieee.org>, <dhcwg@ietf.org>
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RFC2131 specifies interface disconnect/reconnect as the trigger for a DHCP 
update.  Nothing else.

Initiating changes in routes advertised by RIP is certainly possible, 
although I don't know of any DHCP servers that will do it today.

Are you talking about DHCP/IPv4 or DHCP/IPv6?

- Ralph

At 11:11 AM 8/30/2002 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
>Hi John,
>
>John Wells <wells@ieee.org> writes:
> > Hi Alex,
> > That was precisely the idea I had.  It's a good one because it gives
> > optimal routing and sidesteps communicating the home address and care-of
> > address to mobile nodes.
>
>We can discuss about this, but this is only half DHC.  It gives
>optimal routing but only within that routing domain.  No need of HoA
>and CoA but only if staying in that domain.
>
> > Can any DHCP servers do this now?
>
>I don't know of any DHCP implementation that interacts with routing
>daemons.  But enhanching a DHCPv6 implementation to send UDP messages
>to routing daemons, a proof-of-concept like, must not be very
>difficult.
>
>RIP needs some modifications to act well for this.  Again, off-topic,
>but links torn down information propagate badly.
>
>Alex
>
>_______________________________________________
>dhcwg mailing list
>dhcwg@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Sat Sep  7 06:05:25 2002
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Message-ID: <024f01c25505$f65617f0$7647bf90@engloan2>
From: "Bhaskar S" <Bhaskar.S@motorola.com>
To: <dhcwg@ietf.org>
References: <20020905153353.62997.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Query on DHCP client with multiple host
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:59:18 -0700
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Hi Ryan,

Thanks for the info.

I would like to seek more clarification on using DHCP along with VLAN. Here
I mean to say that I have to use DHCP to allocate IP addresses to each of
the VLAN interfaces, assuming that DHCP server is connected to one of the
VLAN interfaces. Is this possible?

It seemed difficult to me because the DHCP requesting IP address for an
interface would be sent only on that interface?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Bhaskar S.

Regardomg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Scripps"
To: "Bhaskar S"
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Query on DHCP client with multiple host


> My interpretation is that a DISCOVER must be sent from
> each interface since they could each be on a different
> network.
>
> VLANs do not alter the functionality of DHCP.  You
> must ensure that each VLAN has a DHCP server or relay
> agent in it somewhere, however.  Clients on one VLAN
> typically must route to another VLAN, therefore DHCP
> DISCOVERs will not be carried across VLANs.  Your
> switches may allow a single port to trunk VLANs to a
> single host which could have interfaces for all
> available VLANs.
>
> Best of luck,
> Ryan Scripps
>
> --- Bhaskar S wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The DHCP RFC says:
> >
> > "A client with multiple network interfaces must use
> > DHCP through each
> > interface independently to obtain configuration
> > information parameters for
> > these seperate interfaces."
> >
> > Does the above statement mean that DISCOVER message
> > for getting IP
> > address for a particular interface should be sent
> > only on that interface or
> > does it mean that the DISCOVER message has to be
> > sent on each of
> > the interfaces available on the node ?
> >
> > Also I would like links which would give how to
> > configure DHCP in a VLAN
> > environment.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bhaskar S.
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep  9 09:51:24 2002
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Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 14:54:59 +0200
From: Jean-Mickael Guerin <jean-mickael.guerin@6wind.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] IPsec for DHCPv6 client ?
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Hello,

I have a question about security mechanisms proposed in the draft, 
hoping it has not be discussed before, in case I'd appreciate pointers. 
The delayed authentication uses a shared secret and considers mainly 
intradomain roaming. IPsec is proposed between relays and servers 
because they're likely to belong to the same administrative domain.
Why is not proposed using IPsec to secure communications between clients 
and servers with the some restrictions, i.e. installation of static keys 
as shared secret, in intra-domain ?


Regards,

-- 

Jean-Mickael GUERIN
Tel : +33 1 39 30 92 33
Web site : www.6wind.com

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep  9 10:53:08 2002
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To: Ralph Droms<rdroms@cisco.com>
Cc: John Wells<wells@ieee.org>, <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Address autoconfiguration and route updates for mobility
References: <20020829180950.B8009@io.irean.vt.edu>
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	<20020829180950.B8009@io.irean.vt.edu>
	<4.3.2.7.2.20020906110604.02209010@funnel.cisco.com>
From: Alexandru Petrescu<petrescu@crm.mot.com>
Date: 09 Sep 2002 00:05:29 +0200
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I've mainly looked into DHCP/IPv6, there's the CONFIRM message that
has this explicit meaning to the server that the client keeps the
address after interface went down/up (presumably because of sleep
mode).  The same scenario can be designed for IPv4 too.  After quickly
skimming over RFC2131, I would suppose that the client could use a
form of DHCPINFORM to server to let it know that client keeps the same
address after client's interface has moved under another Access
Router.

The overall picture could look like this: a cloud of routers running
RIP.  One of the routers is the DHCP server and some of the other
routers are Access Routers (AR).  Each AR is also a DHCP Relay.  A
mobile host attaches its interface to one AR at a time: interface up,
interface down and up again under another AR.  Assume the mobile host
has already acquired an address from the DHCP server.  When the mobile
is changing its attachment, all it has to do is to CONFIRM its address
to the DHCP server through the AR.  When the relay on the AR receives
the CONFIRM it normally forwards it to the server and, in addition,
broadcasts a RIP Update containing its normal routing table plus an
entry corresponding to the address allocated to the host (this is
found in the CONFIRM).  When the DHCP server generates the DHCPACK for
this CONFIRM it also generates a RIP Update containing the route
towards the new AR, and removing the route through the old AR.  The
route towards the Mobile address through the old AR should disappear
and the route through new AR should appear, within all the routing
cloud.

What do you think?

Alex

Ralph Droms <rdroms@cisco.com> writes:
> RFC2131 specifies interface disconnect/reconnect as the trigger for a
> DHCP update.  Nothing else.
> 
> Initiating changes in routes advertised by RIP is certainly possible,
> although I don't know of any DHCP servers that will do it today.
> 
> Are you talking about DHCP/IPv4 or DHCP/IPv6?
> 
> - Ralph
> 
> At 11:11 AM 8/30/2002 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
> >Hi John,
> >
> >John Wells <wells@ieee.org> writes:
> > > Hi Alex,
> > > That was precisely the idea I had.  It's a good one because it gives
> > > optimal routing and sidesteps communicating the home address and care-of
> > > address to mobile nodes.
> >
> >We can discuss about this, but this is only half DHC.  It gives
> >optimal routing but only within that routing domain.  No need of HoA
> >and CoA but only if staying in that domain.
> >
> > > Can any DHCP servers do this now?
> >
> >I don't know of any DHCP implementation that interacts with routing
> >daemons.  But enhanching a DHCPv6 implementation to send UDP messages
> >to routing daemons, a proof-of-concept like, must not be very
> >difficult.
> >
> >RIP needs some modifications to act well for this.  Again, off-topic,
> >but links torn down information propagate badly.
> >
> >Alex
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >dhcwg mailing list
> >dhcwg@ietf.org
> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
> 
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep  9 14:51:03 2002
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From: Ryan Scripps <suburbandriver@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: RyanScripps@alumni.utexas.net
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Query on DHCP client with multiple host
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(This is probably beginning to go outside the scope of
this discussion group, but...)

The details of a VLAN configuration can differ by
vendor.  Simply stated, each VLAN will need to have a
either a DHCP server of DHCP relay on it.  I am most
familiar with Cisco stuff and have typically seen a
router card added to a switch chassis. This router
card has &#34;interfaces&#34; (all in software) for
each network and can act as router between VLANs and
also as a DHCP relay (Cisco calls it a &#34;helper
address&#34;).  A DHCP broadcast will not be carried
across VLANs in any implementation of VLANs that I
have seen.

I have heard of some (presumably very complex)
implementations where switch ports are shunted to a
default VLAN with a DHCP server on it.  When the DHCP
server assigns an address, the DHCP server kicks off a
script file which dynamically reconfigures the
client's switch port with the correct VLAN assignment.

Good luck,
Ryan Scripps

--- Bhaskar S &lt;Bhaskar.S@motorola.com&gt; wrote:
&gt; Hi Ryan,
&gt; 
&gt; Thanks for the info.
&gt; 
&gt; I would like to seek more clarification on using
&gt; DHCP along with VLAN. Here
&gt; I mean to say that I have to use DHCP to allocate
IP
&gt; addresses to each of
&gt; the VLAN interfaces, assuming that DHCP server is
&gt; connected to one of the
&gt; VLAN interfaces. Is this possible?
&gt; 
&gt; It seemed difficult to me because the DHCP
&gt; requesting IP address for an
&gt; interface would be sent only on that interface?
&gt; 
&gt; Thanks in advance.
&gt; 
&gt; Regards,
&gt; Bhaskar S.
&gt; 
&gt; Regardomg
&gt; ----- Original Message -----
&gt; From: &#34;Ryan Scripps&#34;
&gt; To: &#34;Bhaskar S&#34;
&gt; Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:33 AM
&gt; Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Query on DHCP client with
&gt; multiple host
&gt; 
&gt; 
&gt; &gt; My interpretation is that a DISCOVER must be
sent
&gt; from
&gt; &gt; each interface since they could each be on a
&gt; different
&gt; &gt; network.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; VLANs do not alter the functionality of
DHCP.  You
&gt; &gt; must ensure that each VLAN has a DHCP server
or
&gt; relay
&gt; &gt; agent in it somewhere, however.  Clients on
one
&gt; VLAN
&gt; &gt; typically must route to another VLAN,
therefore
&gt; DHCP
&gt; &gt; DISCOVERs will not be carried across VLANs. 
Your
&gt; &gt; switches may allow a single port to trunk
VLANs to
&gt; a
&gt; &gt; single host which could have interfaces for
all
&gt; &gt; available VLANs.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Best of luck,
&gt; &gt; Ryan Scripps
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; --- Bhaskar S wrote:
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi,
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; The DHCP RFC says:
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; &#34;A client with multiple network
interfaces must
&gt; use
&gt; &gt; &gt; DHCP through each
&gt; &gt; &gt; interface independently to obtain
configuration
&gt; &gt; &gt; information parameters for
&gt; &gt; &gt; these seperate interfaces.&#34;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Does the above statement mean that
DISCOVER
&gt; message
&gt; &gt; &gt; for getting IP
&gt; &gt; &gt; address for a particular interface
should be
&gt; sent
&gt; &gt; &gt; only on that interface or
&gt; &gt; &gt; does it mean that the DISCOVER message
has to be
&gt; &gt; &gt; sent on each of
&gt; &gt; &gt; the interfaces available on the node ?
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Also I would like links which would
give how to
&gt; &gt; &gt; configure DHCP in a VLAN
&gt; &gt; &gt; environment.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks in advance.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt; Regards,
&gt; &gt; &gt; Bhaskar S.
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
__________________________________________________
&gt; &gt; Do You Yahoo!?
&gt; &gt; Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
&gt; &gt; http://finance.yahoo.com
&gt; 
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; dhcwg mailing list
&gt; dhcwg@ietf.org
&gt; https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep  9 20:33:06 2002
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] IPsec for DHCPv6 client ?
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> Why is not proposed using IPsec to secure communications between 
> clients and servers with the some restrictions, i.e. installation of 
> static keys as shared secret, in intra-domain ?

Because in general we don't expect that such a security association 
would exist.   In general, you are plugging a device into the network, 
and you want it to work - you don't want to have to configure it before 
you plug it in.   If you wanted that, you wouldn't be using DHCP, 
right?   The only plausible exception I can come up with is a cell 
phone, where perhaps the provider would install an IPsec key in the 
phone.   But even then, I'm skeptical that it could be made to work the 
way you describe.

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Tue Sep 10 03:39:52 2002
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Ted Lemon wrote:

>> Why is not proposed using IPsec to secure communications between 
>> clients and servers with the some restrictions, i.e. installation of 
>> static keys as shared secret, in intra-domain ?
>
>
> Because in general we don't expect that such a security association 
> would exist.   In general, you are plugging a device into the network, 
> and you want it to work - you don't want to have to configure it 
> before you plug it in.   If you wanted that, you wouldn't be using 
> DHCP, right?   The only plausible exception I can come up with is a 
> cell phone, where perhaps the provider would install an IPsec key in 
> the phone.   But even then, I'm skeptical that it could be made to 
> work the way you describe.
>
My point concerns the possibility of using IPsec in scenario where DHCP 
Authentication is proposed. Because DHCP Authentication relies on shared 
secret, I think the draft should have a section about this, even if it 
would be limited to client and relays or client and server on same link.

Jean-Mickael

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Tue Sep 10 04:22:24 2002
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] IPsec for DHCPv6 client ?
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> My point concerns the possibility of using IPsec in scenario where 
> DHCP Authentication is proposed. Because DHCP Authentication relies on 
> shared secret, I think the draft should have a section about this, 
> even if it would be limited to client and relays or client and server 
> on same link.

Your reasoning is flawed.   IPsec is not shared-secret authentication.  
  It is an entire security infrastructure, carefully designed to solve a 
certain class of problems.   It happens to support the use of 
shared-secret authentication, among other authentication schemes.  The 
DHCP security option also supports shared-secret authentication.   This 
is nothing more than a coincidence - it does not mean that DHCP 
security can work with IPsec.

The DHCP server and clients need to see packets with "bad" 
authentication keys in order for DHCP authentication to work, because 
they can't really prepare in advance for all the possible uses of keys 
by roaming clients and servers in locations to which they may roam.   
If the packet is signed with the wrong key with IPsec, it will simply 
be dropped by the DHCP agent's IP stack.   This is not what we want.

Intuitively it seems obvious that one should use IPsec for DHCP 
authentication.   Personally, I'd *love* to be able to claim that IPsec 
was a solution to securing DHCP transactions.   But this working group 
has a long history of trying to solve this problem with IPsec.   Every 
time we've tried to figure out a good way to do it, we've come up 
either with nothing, or with an unworkable kludge.   So there's a good 
reason why we didn't do it - it's not an oversight.

If you think that there is a way to make IPsec work with DHCP 
authentication, please take the extra time to actually sit down and 
reason it through before insisting that we make changes.   What happens 
when a server sees a new client for the first time?   What happens when 
a client that's got a security association with a server at one site 
roams to a different site?   Does the server at the other site even see 
packets from that client?   How does it get them?   How does all this 
work with relay agents?   Like it or not, DHCP *requires* relay agents, 
so the protocol has to work when the DHCP client is talking to a relay 
agent rather than a server.   If you put the signature in the payload, 
all these problems go away.   That's why we've put the signature in the 
payload.

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Tue Sep 10 18:02:34 2002
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From: Bud Millwood <budm@weird-solutions.com>
Reply-To: Bud Millwood <budm@weird-solutions.com>
Organization: Weird Solutions, Inc.
To: dhcwg@ietf.org
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:00:58 +0200
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Subject: [dhcwg] Windows 2k and user class id
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Can anyone tell me under what circumstance a Windows 2k machine would give up 
its pre-configured user class identifier? These machines have been running 
fine with their configured ucid, and now none of them are identifying 
themselves with this setting.

I was under the impression that setting a user class identifier in this 
client was a permanent change, but it's not looking like it is.

Regards,

Bud Millwood
Weird Solutions, Inc.
http://www.weird-solutions.com
tel: +46 8 758 3700
fax: +46 8 758 3687
mailto:budm@weird-solutions.com
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From: "Luke Stratman" <lastra@wm.edu>
To: <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:26:49 -0400
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Subject: [dhcwg] Classless static route?
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I apologize in advance for the ignorance of my request, but here goes:
I recently submitted a question to the dhcp-server mailing list on ISC
involving the need to send clients subnet routes through DHCP.  I ran
across the draft for the classless static route option for the DHCP
server that would do exactly what I need.  I realize that it is, in
fact, only a draft but was wondering if it had worked its way into the
ISC's dev builds for DHCP.  Again, I apologize for the ignorance of my
request, but if anyone could confirm or deny this, I would greatly
appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for your time,
-Luke Stratman


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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 00:14:39 2002
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Subject: RE: [dhcwg] IPsec for DHCPv6 client ?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:12:25 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] IPsec for DHCPv6 client ?
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From: "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com>
To: "Ted Lemon" <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>,
        "Jean-Mickael Guerin" <jean-mickael.guerin@6wind.com>
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To add to this dhcpv6 is multicast based.  That don't work to well with IPsec.  We still have not figured that out.

/jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Lemon [mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:21 AM
> To: Jean-Mickael Guerin
> Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] IPsec for DHCPv6 client ?
> 
> 
> > My point concerns the possibility of using IPsec in scenario where 
> > DHCP Authentication is proposed. Because DHCP 
> Authentication relies on 
> > shared secret, I think the draft should have a section about this, 
> > even if it would be limited to client and relays or client 
> and server 
> > on same link.
> 
> Your reasoning is flawed.   IPsec is not shared-secret 
> authentication.  
>   It is an entire security infrastructure, carefully designed 
> to solve a 
> certain class of problems.   It happens to support the use of 
> shared-secret authentication, among other authentication 
> schemes.  The 
> DHCP security option also supports shared-secret 
> authentication.   This 
> is nothing more than a coincidence - it does not mean that DHCP 
> security can work with IPsec.
> 
> The DHCP server and clients need to see packets with "bad" 
> authentication keys in order for DHCP authentication to work, because 
> they can't really prepare in advance for all the possible 
> uses of keys 
> by roaming clients and servers in locations to which they may roam.   
> If the packet is signed with the wrong key with IPsec, it will simply 
> be dropped by the DHCP agent's IP stack.   This is not what we want.
> 
> Intuitively it seems obvious that one should use IPsec for DHCP 
> authentication.   Personally, I'd *love* to be able to claim 
> that IPsec 
> was a solution to securing DHCP transactions.   But this 
> working group 
> has a long history of trying to solve this problem with 
> IPsec.   Every 
> time we've tried to figure out a good way to do it, we've come up 
> either with nothing, or with an unworkable kludge.   So 
> there's a good 
> reason why we didn't do it - it's not an oversight.
> 
> If you think that there is a way to make IPsec work with DHCP 
> authentication, please take the extra time to actually sit down and 
> reason it through before insisting that we make changes.   
> What happens 
> when a server sees a new client for the first time?   What 
> happens when 
> a client that's got a security association with a server at one site 
> roams to a different site?   Does the server at the other 
> site even see 
> packets from that client?   How does it get them?   How does all this 
> work with relay agents?   Like it or not, DHCP *requires* 
> relay agents, 
> so the protocol has to work when the DHCP client is talking 
> to a relay 
> agent rather than a server.   If you put the signature in the 
> payload, 
> all these problems go away.   That's why we've put the 
> signature in the 
> payload.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
> 
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 02:58:36 2002
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Hi,

There were some internet drafts dealing with the deployment of DHCP protocol in new envrironments, such as roaming/mobile clients and xdsl access. These drafts were, as far as I know, draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-ra-00.txt, draft-ietf-dhc-enhance-requirements-00.txt, draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-requirements-00.txt. All these drafts have expired and it seems that there is no such working item in the next charter of the working group, discussed during the last meeting in Yokohama.

Does it mean that the working group considers that it is not an important item even if some ISPs consider DHCP protocol (+ improvements) as an alternative or a complement to PPP for their services ? Or does this work is handled by another working group ?

David Binet
 


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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 11:30:51 2002
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Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter
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From: "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com>
To: "BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE" <david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com>,
        <dhcwg@ietf.org>
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My view is we MUST deal with Mobility in all IETF working groups.  For those that write code and build this stuff you know from the initial mobile code we have had to put in for mobile v4/v6, tcp wireless (pilc wg), et al that mobile greatly affects our IP stack, APIs, and ISV applications paradigms.  It is now inherent in the infrastructure. Of course it has to be in our vision with the dhc working group.  Unfortuneately I  as one person appear to be unable to communciate with ADs in the IETF so I suggest others they may respect more go beat on them and work with Ralph to get this included.  It is complete error in dhc to not have this in our charter.

/jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE 
> [mailto:david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 2:56 AM
> To: dhcwg@ietf.org
> Subject: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> There were some internet drafts dealing with the deployment 
> of DHCP protocol in new envrironments, such as roaming/mobile 
> clients and xdsl access. These drafts were, as far as I know, 
> draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-ra-00.txt, 
> draft-ietf-dhc-enhance-requirements-00.txt, 
> draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-requirements-00.txt. All these drafts have 
> expired and it seems that there is no such working item in 
> the next charter of the working group, discussed during the 
> last meeting in Yokohama.
> 
> Does it mean that the working group considers that it is not 
> an important item even if some ISPs consider DHCP protocol (+ 
> improvements) as an alternative or a complement to PPP for 
> their services ? Or does this work is handled by another 
> working group ?
> 
> David Binet
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
> 
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 12:08:05 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:22:43 -0500
From: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
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Hi-

I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for instance, booting
from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, rather than
setting them individually on each machine.

Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
is available at:

ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt

I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
appropriate list).

Regards,

Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 13:31:56 2002
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	 <david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com>,
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Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:30:56 -0500
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Some of this work likely overlaps the PANA WG and may be more appropriate in there?

DHCP is the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and has focused on configuration of clients - not authorizing users. (We've viewed the user authorization as happening AFTER the address was assigned.)

In light of todays world in which most clients are really associated with a single user, it is likely time for the WG to revisit this? But, this would require discussions within the WG, with the ADs, and with other WGs responsible for authentication issues (AAA, PANA, ...)?

We must also remember there are systems that aren't associated with specific users - and they need addresses and configuration information as well. And, this would fundamentally impact when addresses are assigned and released, since a user logout could require an address release.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Bound, Jim [mailto:Jim.Bound@hp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 11:29 AM
To: BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter


My view is we MUST deal with Mobility in all IETF working groups.  For those that write code and build this stuff you know from the initial mobile code we have had to put in for mobile v4/v6, tcp wireless (pilc wg), et al that mobile greatly affects our IP stack, APIs, and ISV applications paradigms.  It is now inherent in the infrastructure. Of course it has to be in our vision with the dhc working group.  Unfortuneately I  as one person appear to be unable to communciate with ADs in the IETF so I suggest others they may respect more go beat on them and work with Ralph to get this included.  It is complete error in dhc to not have this in our charter.

/jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE 
> [mailto:david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 2:56 AM
> To: dhcwg@ietf.org
> Subject: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> There were some internet drafts dealing with the deployment 
> of DHCP protocol in new envrironments, such as roaming/mobile 
> clients and xdsl access. These drafts were, as far as I know, 
> draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-ra-00.txt, 
> draft-ietf-dhc-enhance-requirements-00.txt, 
> draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-requirements-00.txt. All these drafts have 
> expired and it seems that there is no such working item in 
> the next charter of the working group, discussed during the 
> last meeting in Yokohama.
> 
> Does it mean that the working group considers that it is not 
> an important item even if some ISPs consider DHCP protocol (+ 
> improvements) as an alternative or a complement to PPP for 
> their services ? Or does this work is handled by another 
> working group ?
> 
> David Binet
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
> 
_______________________________________________
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<TITLE>RE: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Some of this work likely overlaps the PANA WG and may =
be more appropriate in there?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>DHCP is the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and =
has focused on configuration of clients - not authorizing users. (We've =
viewed the user authorization as happening AFTER the address was =
assigned.)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In light of todays world in which most clients are =
really associated with a single user, it is likely time for the WG to =
revisit this? But, this would require discussions within the WG, with =
the ADs, and with other WGs responsible for authentication issues (AAA, =
PANA, ...)?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We must also remember there are systems that aren't =
associated with specific users - and they need addresses and =
configuration information as well. And, this would fundamentally impact =
when addresses are assigned and released, since a user logout could =
require an address release.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>- Bernie</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Bound, Jim [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:Jim.Bound@hp.com">mailto:Jim.Bound@hp.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 11:29 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE; dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg =
charter</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>My view is we MUST deal with Mobility in all IETF =
working groups.&nbsp; For those that write code and build this stuff =
you know from the initial mobile code we have had to put in for mobile =
v4/v6, tcp wireless (pilc wg), et al that mobile greatly affects our IP =
stack, APIs, and ISV applications paradigms.&nbsp; It is now inherent =
in the infrastructure. Of course it has to be in our vision with the =
dhc working group.&nbsp; Unfortuneately I&nbsp; as one person appear to =
be unable to communciate with ADs in the IETF so I suggest others they =
may respect more go beat on them and work with Ralph to get this =
included.&nbsp; It is complete error in dhc to not have this in our =
charter.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>/jim</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com">mailto:david.binet@rd.f=
rancetelecom.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 2:56 =
AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg =
charter</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hi,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; There were some internet drafts dealing with =
the deployment </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; of DHCP protocol in new envrironments, such as =
roaming/mobile </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; clients and xdsl access. These drafts were, as =
far as I know, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-ra-00.txt, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; draft-ietf-dhc-enhance-requirements-00.txt, =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-requirements-00.txt. All =
these drafts have </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; expired and it seems that there is no such =
working item in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the next charter of the working group, =
discussed during the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; last meeting in Yokohama.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Does it mean that the working group considers =
that it is not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; an important item even if some ISPs consider =
DHCP protocol (+ </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; improvements) as an alternative or a complement =
to PPP for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; their services ? Or does this work is handled =
by another </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; working group ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; David Binet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
_______________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; dhcwg mailing list</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; <A =
HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg</A></FONT=
>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>_______________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>dhcwg mailing list</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg</A></FONT=
>
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 16:31:43 2002
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To: "Bernie Volz (EUD)" <Bernie.Volz@am1.ericsson.se>
cc: "Bound, Jim" <Jim.Bound@hp.com>,
        BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE <david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com>,
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter 
In-Reply-To: Message from  "Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:30:56 CDT." <F9211EC7A7FED4119FD9005004A6C8700A6708DF@eamrcnt723.exu.ericsson.se> 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:26:18 -0400
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I agree with Bernie. Some serious thinking needs to take place before
deciding if the cited IDs belong in this WG. There are other WGs that
might be more appropriate.

But as we are in the process of rechartering the WG, now is a good
time to bring the topic up. 

Thomas
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:21:24 2002
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:40:28 -0500
From: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] Re: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
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Hi David-

My assumption was that in this case, we could get away with using
"public" for the community string, and that any defined traps would
be enabled (we would only send these when something failed, so
we shouldn't have to allow the user to configure which ones to
send).  That would take care of early boot, unless configuring the
community string was important.  Perhaps this would be enough.

Are there other things that might be important to set for an initial
boot implementation that only sends traps?

Thanks,

Mark

"David T. Perkins" wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> Mark,
> 
> Having only an IP address of a management target is insufficient for
> achieving your objective. What you need to add depends on how many
> "stages" that you have for your boot operation, and what you assume
> can be configured in persistent storage for the device.
> 
> At 11:22 AM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
> >Hi-
> >
> >I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
> >hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
> >Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
> >at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
> >IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for instance, booting
> >from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
> >to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, rather than
> >setting them individually on each machine.
> >
> >Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
> >as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
> >these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
> >is available at:
> >
> >ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> >
> >I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
> >correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
> >appropriate list).
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Mark A. Bakke
> >Cisco Systems
> >mbakke@cisco.com
> >763.398.1054
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:28:21 2002
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
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On second thought, we would probably also want to configure whether
each host was to be sent a V1 or V2 trap.

--
Mark

Mark Bakke wrote:
> 
> Hi David-
> 
> My assumption was that in this case, we could get away with using
> "public" for the community string, and that any defined traps would
> be enabled (we would only send these when something failed, so
> we shouldn't have to allow the user to configure which ones to
> send).  That would take care of early boot, unless configuring the
> community string was important.  Perhaps this would be enough.
> 
> Are there other things that might be important to set for an initial
> boot implementation that only sends traps?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark
> 
> "David T. Perkins" wrote:
> >
> > HI,
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > Having only an IP address of a management target is insufficient for
> > achieving your objective. What you need to add depends on how many
> > "stages" that you have for your boot operation, and what you assume
> > can be configured in persistent storage for the device.
> >
> > At 11:22 AM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
> > >Hi-
> > >
> > >I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
> > >hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
> > >Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
> > >at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
> > >IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for instance, booting
> > >from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
> > >to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, rather than
> > >setting them individually on each machine.
> > >
> > >Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
> > >as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
> > >these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
> > >is available at:
> > >
> > >ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> > >
> > >I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
> > >correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
> > >appropriate list).
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Mark A. Bakke
> > >Cisco Systems
> > >mbakke@cisco.com
> > >763.398.1054
> > Regards,
> > /david t. perkins
> 
> --
> Mark A. Bakke
> Cisco Systems
> mbakke@cisco.com
> 763.398.1054
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:31:17 2002
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Hi,

There were some internet drafts dealing with the deployment of DHCP protocol in new envrironments, such as roaming/mobile clients and xdsl access. These drafts were, as far as I know, draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-ra-00.txt, draft-ietf-dhc-enhance-requirements-00.txt, draft-ietf-dhc-aaa-requirements-00.txt. All these drafts have expired and it seems that there is no such working item in the next charter of the working group, discussed during the last meeting in Yokohama.

Does it mean that the working group considers that it is not an important item even if some ISPs consider DHCP protocol (+ improvements) as an alternative or a complement to PPP for their services ? Or does this work is handled by another working group ?

David Binet
 
 
 


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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:31:18 2002
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Subject: [dhcwg] Re: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
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HI,

Mark,

Having only an IP address of a management target is insufficient for
achieving your objective. What you need to add depends on how many
"stages" that you have for your boot operation, and what you assume
can be configured in persistent storage for the device.

At 11:22 AM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
>Hi-
>
>I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
>hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
>Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
>at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
>IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for instance, booting
>from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
>to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, rather than
>setting them individually on each machine.
>
>Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
>as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
>these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
>is available at:
>
>ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
>
>I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
>correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
>appropriate list).
>
>Regards,
>
>Mark A. Bakke
>Cisco Systems
>mbakke@cisco.com
>763.398.1054 
Regards,
/david t. perkins

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:34:28 2002
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Subject: [dhcwg] RE: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
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Seems pretty IPv4 specific. Can there be IPv6 addresses?

How ould the agent know security parameters and SNMP version
to use and such?

I assume you would want the paramters to fit into the
SNMP architecure (as per RFC2571), and the trap (or
better) notification destinations (and other parameters)
to be mappable inot the MIBs in RFC2573, 2574 and 2575?

Thanks,
Bert 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Bakke [mailto:mbakke@cisco.com]
> Sent: woensdag 11 september 2002 18:23
> To: dhcwg@ietf.org; mibs@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
> 
> 
> Hi-
> 
> I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
> hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
> Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
> at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
> IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for 
> instance, booting
> from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
> to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, 
> rather than
> setting them individually on each machine.
> 
> Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
> as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
> these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
> is available at:
> 
> ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-tr
ap-00.txt

I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
appropriate list).

Regards,

Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:34:31 2002
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HI,

So, you are developing a mechanism that works only for
SNMPv1 with no proxy or security. Note that SNMPv1 is
a "not recommended" protocol. It would be much more
valuable to create an approach that worked for SNMPv1,
SNMPv2, and SNMPv3 protocols, that supported security
parameters from the DHCP server and from local persistent
storage, and that allowed a multi-stage boot.

There are security trade-offs that need to be covered.

At 04:40 PM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
>Hi David-
>
>My assumption was that in this case, we could get away with using
>"public" for the community string, and that any defined traps would
>be enabled (we would only send these when something failed, so
>we shouldn't have to allow the user to configure which ones to
>send).  That would take care of early boot, unless configuring the
>community string was important.  Perhaps this would be enough.
>
>Are there other things that might be important to set for an initial
>boot implementation that only sends traps?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark
>
>"David T. Perkins" wrote:
>> 
>> HI,
>> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> Having only an IP address of a management target is insufficient for
>> achieving your objective. What you need to add depends on how many
>> "stages" that you have for your boot operation, and what you assume
>> can be configured in persistent storage for the device.
>> 
>> At 11:22 AM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
>> >Hi-
>> >
>> >I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
>> >hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
>> >Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
>> >at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
>> >IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for instance, booting
>> >from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
>> >to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, rather than
>> >setting them individually on each machine.
>> >
>> >Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
>> >as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
>> >these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
>> >is available at:
>> >
>> >ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
>> >
>> >I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
>> >correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
>> >appropriate list).
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >Mark A. Bakke
>> >Cisco Systems
>> >mbakke@cisco.com
>> >763.398.1054
>> Regards,
>> /david t. perkins
>
>-- 
>Mark A. Bakke
>Cisco Systems
>mbakke@cisco.com
>763.398.1054 
Regards,
/david t. perkins

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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:43:23 2002
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True; that's what I had in mind, although we would definitely need
to say which version was needed for each host.  I hadn't taken
proxies or security into account, since I have not thought beyond
version 2.  Anyway, we should do this right.  I assume that we
need to have a set of parameters that are global to the entity
being configured, as well as a set of parameters for each trap
or notification host.

Any pointers to what should be configured for security?

Thanks,

Mark

"David T. Perkins" wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> So, you are developing a mechanism that works only for
> SNMPv1 with no proxy or security. Note that SNMPv1 is
> a "not recommended" protocol. It would be much more
> valuable to create an approach that worked for SNMPv1,
> SNMPv2, and SNMPv3 protocols, that supported security
> parameters from the DHCP server and from local persistent
> storage, and that allowed a multi-stage boot.
> 
> There are security trade-offs that need to be covered.
> 
> At 04:40 PM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
> >Hi David-
> >
> >My assumption was that in this case, we could get away with using
> >"public" for the community string, and that any defined traps would
> >be enabled (we would only send these when something failed, so
> >we shouldn't have to allow the user to configure which ones to
> >send).  That would take care of early boot, unless configuring the
> >community string was important.  Perhaps this would be enough.
> >
> >Are there other things that might be important to set for an initial
> >boot implementation that only sends traps?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >"David T. Perkins" wrote:
> >>
> >> HI,
> >>
> >> Mark,
> >>
> >> Having only an IP address of a management target is insufficient for
> >> achieving your objective. What you need to add depends on how many
> >> "stages" that you have for your boot operation, and what you assume
> >> can be configured in persistent storage for the device.
> >>
> >> At 11:22 AM 9/11/2002 -0500, Mark Bakke wrote:
> >> >Hi-
> >> >
> >> >I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
> >> >hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
> >> >Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
> >> >at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
> >> >IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for instance, booting
> >> >from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
> >> >to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts, rather than
> >> >setting them individually on each machine.
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
> >> >as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
> >> >these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
> >> >is available at:
> >> >
> >> >ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> >> >
> >> >I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
> >> >correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
> >> >appropriate list).
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >
> >> >Mark A. Bakke
> >> >Cisco Systems
> >> >mbakke@cisco.com
> >> >763.398.1054
> >> Regards,
> >> /david t. perkins
> >
> >--
> >Mark A. Bakke
> >Cisco Systems
> >mbakke@cisco.com
> >763.398.1054
> Regards,
> /david t. perkins

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 11 17:47:13 2002
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Subject: [dhcwg] Re: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
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I had figured IPv6 addresses would be handled along with DHCPv6,
but that's mainly because we worried about v6 a whole lot yet.
I also noticed that all of the previously-specified "list of
IP address" options only mentioned v4.  Is there a standard method
used in DHCP to specify whether an address that follows is an
IPv4 or v6 address?

I hadn't given security any thought.

I assume that I need to look at the notification MIB module
in RFC2573.  Where should I look for these in the others?

Anyway, I'll be out for a few days, and will try to read the
four RFCs you mentioned in the meantime.  I'd prefer to do
this the right way, rather than limit it to v1.

Thanks,

Mark

"Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" wrote:
> 
> Seems pretty IPv4 specific. Can there be IPv6 addresses?
> 
> How ould the agent know security parameters and SNMP version
> to use and such?
> 
> I assume you would want the paramters to fit into the
> SNMP architecure (as per RFC2571), and the trap (or
> better) notification destinations (and other parameters)
> to be mappable inot the MIBs in RFC2573, 2574 and 2575?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bert
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Bakke [mailto:mbakke@cisco.com]
> > Sent: woensdag 11 september 2002 18:23
> > To: dhcwg@ietf.org; mibs@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
> >
> >
> > Hi-
> >
> > I needed a method to configure a list of SNMP notification (AKA trap)
> > hosts for use by diskless workstations booting from a network device.
> > Since none of the usual SNMP configuration information is available
> > at this time, I would like to use a DHCP option to provide a list of
> > IP addresses to which to send notifications when, for
> > instance, booting
> > from a network device fails for some reason.  This could also be used
> > to centrally configure the list of SNMP notification hosts,
> > rather than
> > setting them individually on each machine.
> >
> > Anyway, I've submitted a short draft describing the proposed option
> > as draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt.  I'll forward the message to
> > these two groups when the draft is published.  In the mean time, it
> > is available at:
> >
> > ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/mbakke/ips/dhcp/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-tr
> ap-00.txt
> 
> I'm guessing that these two mailing lists (dhcwg and mibs) are the
> correct places to discuss this (please let me know if there's a more
> appropriate list).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark A. Bakke
> Cisco Systems
> mbakke@cisco.com
> 763.398.1054

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep 12 04:52:05 2002
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Hi,

The topic "new environments where DHCP can be deployed" has to be
discussed in a wg at the IETF.
I do not know if it should be discussed in PANA, DHCP or other working
group. When I read the PANA wg charter, I do not see any relationship
between PANA activities and DHCP activities except that PANA protocol
must not interfere with DHCP. Moreover, I believe that PANA working
group asserts that host must have an IP address before using PANA
protocol (please, tell me if I am wrong).
In some contexts, for example xDSL access, I do not think that DHCP
clients will have an IP address before connecting but there is a strong
need for authentication before the client will receive configuration
parameters from the server. 
Even if PANA working group deals with this issue, DHCP working group has
to take this need into consideration in order to make the new PANA
protocol compliant with DHCP protocol.

David
 
 

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep 12 07:51:32 2002
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To: "BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE" <david.binet@rd.francetelecom.com>
From: John Schnizlein <jschnizl@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Items of the new wg charter 
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At 04:48 AM 9/12/2002, BINET David FTRD/DMI/CAE wrote:

>The topic "new environments where DHCP can be deployed" has to be
>discussed in a wg at the IETF.

This seems appropriate to include in the Charter discussion.
My view is just a little different: the DHC WG need not go looking 
for new environments for DHCP, but any new technology that expects
to become Internet-Standard should consider using it as part of the
normal environment.

>I do not know if it should be discussed in PANA, DHCP or other working
>group. When I read the PANA wg charter, I do not see any relationship
>between PANA activities and DHCP activities except that PANA protocol
>must not interfere with DHCP. Moreover, I believe that PANA working
>group asserts that host must have an IP address before using PANA
>protocol (please, tell me if I am wrong).

You are not wrong. The scope for PANA is authentication after IP
access is established. There are other mechanisms, such as EAP, that
operate over layer-2 prior to dynamic configuration of hosts (IP addr).
The EAP WG is revising its definition to cover much more than PPP.

>In some contexts, for example xDSL access, I do not think that DHCP
>clients will have an IP address before connecting but there is a strong
>need for authentication before the client will receive configuration
>parameters from the server. 
>Even if PANA working group deals with this issue, DHCP working group has
>to take this need into consideration in order to make the new PANA
>protocol compliant with DHCP protocol.

This really should work the other way, the DHC WG is not supposed to 
enforce compliance (or even compatibility - which is what I suspect you
intended) of new protocols with its specifications. New protocols should
avoid breaking operations that use standards-track protocols like DHCP.

Some degree of coordination between layer-2 authentication (prior to 
IP address assignment) and DHCP is provided by mechanisms like the relay
of RADIUS attributes from layer-2 authenticators into DHCP.
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dhc-agentopt-radius-00.txt

The DHC WG has been receptive to proposals for specific forms of coordination, as indicated by its adoption of this effort. It is reasonable to expect that it would be as receptive to specific proposals for any "new environments where DHCP can be deployed".

John

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Encoding Long Options in DHCPv4
	Author(s)	: T. Lemon, S. Cheshire
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dhc-concat-05.txt
	Pages		: 0
	Date		: 2002-9-11
	
This document specifies the processing rules for DHCPv4 options
that appear multiple times in the same message.  Multiple
instances of the same option are generated when an option exceeds
255 octets in size (the maximum size of a single option) or when
an option needs to be split apart in order to take advantage of
DHCP option overloading.  When multiple instances of the same
option appear in the options, file and/or sname fields in a DHCP
packet, the contents of these options are concatenated together
to form a single option prior to processing.

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
	Author(s)	: M. Bakke
	Filename	: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
	Pages		: 4
	Date		: 2002-9-11
	
The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol [RFC1531] provides a method
for a host to retrieve common configuration parameters at boot time.
These include the host's IP address, default gateway, subnet mask,
DNS server, and other useful things.
When a host is booted from the network, it does not have access to
these configuration parameters from its local or network disk right
away; it relies instead on DHCP to provide them.  One such parameter
that is not yet provided is a list of IP hosts to which to send SNMP
notifications [RFC1448] during the boot process, particularly if the
boot fails.  As the host is already gleaning similar information from
DHCP, a new option to specify these SNMP 'trap' hosts appears to be
the simplest method to gain this information.  Hosts not booting from
the network benefit as well, since SNMP notification hosts can now be
configured centrally through DHCP.
This document describes a proposed DHCP option that specifies a list
of SNMP notification hosts to which SNMP notifications should be
sent.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep 12 11:01:44 2002
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To: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dhc-concat-05.txt 
In-Reply-To: Message from Internet-Drafts@ietf.org 
   of "Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:56:20 EDT." <200209121156.HAA19709@ietf.org> 
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:56:36 -0400
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> 	Title		: Encoding Long Options in DHCPv4
> 	Author(s)	: T. Lemon, S. Cheshire
> 	Filename	: draft-ietf-dhc-concat-05.txt

FYI, this version (as was the case with some other recent versions)
incorporates some editorial clarifications that came out of IESG
review. At this point, all known issues with this document have been
resolved AFAIK, and I expect the IESG to approve it shortly.

Thomas
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Fri Sep 13 16:26:15 2002
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From: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
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David-

Thanks for the advice.  I just had a chance to go over 2571, 73, and 74, and
I think I can take a better shot at this (at least the notification part).  I'll
post to both dhcwg and the snmpv3 lists.

As far as the scope for this, I was initially just setting out to do
enough for notifications.  Do you think that there is interest in
configuring other agent parameters as well?

-
Mark

> "Harrington, David" wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> RFC1448 is a remnant of the obsolete SNMPv2 specs. Nobody supports the old RFC144x specifications.
> You should be using SNMPv3 specifications. The most current RFCs are 2570-2580, and approved
> updates are in the editor's RFC queue.
> 
> RFC2573 defines a number of mibs that can be configured to identify notification targets. If you
> examine those mibs, you will find that there is more information needed than just an address.
> Therefore, your proposed message would need to contain more to centrally configure SNMP targets
> properly.
> 
> dbh
> 
> David Harrington
> co-chair SNMPv2 WG
> Network Management Architect
> Office of the CTO
> Enterasys Networks
> 

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Sat Sep 14 07:49:23 2002
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Hi Mark,

RFC1448 is a remnant of the obsolete SNMPv2 specs. Nobody supports the old
RFC144x specifications. You should be using SNMPv3 specifications. The most
current RFCs are 2570-2580, and approved updates are in the editor's RFC
queue.

RFC2573 defines a number of mibs that can be configured to identify
notification targets. If you examine those mibs, you will find that there is
more information needed than just an address. Therefore, your proposed
message would need to contain more to centrally configure SNMP targets
properly.

dbh

David Harrington
co-chair SNMPv2 WG
Network Management Architect
Office of the CTO
Enterasys Networks
 

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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Mark,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>RFC1448 is a remnant of the obsolete SNMPv2 specs. =
Nobody supports the old RFC144x specifications. You should be using =
SNMPv3 specifications. The most current RFCs are 2570-2580, and =
approved updates are in the editor's RFC queue.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>RFC2573 defines a number of mibs that can be =
configured to identify notification targets. If you examine those mibs, =
you will find that there is more information needed than just an =
address. Therefore, your proposed message would need to contain more to =
centrally configure SNMP targets properly.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>dbh</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>David Harrington</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>co-chair SNMPv2 WG</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Network Management Architect</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Office of the CTO</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Enterasys Networks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Sat Sep 14 07:55:40 2002
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Hi,

How can I set up master-slave configuration fpr 2 servers on the smae network to act as master and slave DHCP servers ?.

Thanks and regards,

 __________________________________________________

ERICSSON 

Rudra Mehta
Senior Systems Engineer
Customer Support Services
Market Unit DACH

Ericsson AG 		
Lagerhausweg 10	
CH-3018 Bern		
Switzerland       		
__________________________________________________


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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Sat Sep 14 07:59:49 2002
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Hi -

> Message-ID: <3D7FBD54.C6EC2E2D@cisco.com>
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:01:56 -0500
> From: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
> To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
> Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org, mibs@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
> References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020911134627.035dd7b0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.1.6.2.20020911142157.035df060@127.0.0.1>
...
> Any pointers to what should be configured for security?
...

See RFC 2574, especially section A.1,
    RFC 2575, especially section A.1,
    RFC 2786, "kick-starting" key distribution

Note that there are current internet drafts with updates to all of these.

As Bert has already pointed out, the notification destination
stuff is in 2573, which also has an update "in the queue".

draft-ietf-snmpv3-vacm-v2-01.txt
draft-ietf-snmpv3-usm-v2-rfc2574bis-01.txt
draft-ietf-ops-rfc2786std-00.txt
draft-ietf-snmpv3-appl-v3-01.txt

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn          BMC Software, Inc.  SJC-1.3141
 randy_presuhn@bmc.com  2141 North First Street
 Tel: +1 408 546-1006   San Jos�, California 95131  USA
 ------------------------------------------------------
 My opinions and BMC's are independent variables.
 ------------------------------------------------------
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Sun Sep 15 14:54:33 2002
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Randy-

Thans for the additional pointers; I was unaware of the drafts.
I'll try to propose something new in the next few days.

--
Mark

Randy Presuhn wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> > Message-ID: <3D7FBD54.C6EC2E2D@cisco.com>
> > Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:01:56 -0500
> > From: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
> > To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
> > Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org, mibs@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
> > References: <5.1.1.6.2.20020911134627.035dd7b0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.1.6.2.20020911142157.035df060@127.0.0.1>
> ...
> > Any pointers to what should be configured for security?
> ...
> 
> See RFC 2574, especially section A.1,
>     RFC 2575, especially section A.1,
>     RFC 2786, "kick-starting" key distribution
> 
> Note that there are current internet drafts with updates to all of these.
> 
> As Bert has already pointed out, the notification destination
> stuff is in 2573, which also has an update "in the queue".
> 
> draft-ietf-snmpv3-vacm-v2-01.txt
> draft-ietf-snmpv3-usm-v2-rfc2574bis-01.txt
> draft-ietf-ops-rfc2786std-00.txt
> draft-ietf-snmpv3-appl-v3-01.txt
> 
>  ------------------------------------------------------
>  Randy Presuhn          BMC Software, Inc.  SJC-1.3141
>  randy_presuhn@bmc.com  2141 North First Street
>  Tel: +1 408 546-1006   San Jos�, California 95131  USA
>  ------------------------------------------------------
>  My opinions and BMC's are independent variables.
>  ------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep 16 04:04:35 2002
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The draft gives an example of network architecture which involves a AAA 
server. In this case, what information the delegating router can give to 
identify the subscriber, in order that AAA server selects the right 
subscriber's prefix ?


-- 

Jean-Mickael GUERIN
Tel : +33 1 39 30 92 33
Web site : www.6wind.com

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: DHCP Option for SNMP Notifications
	Author(s)	: M. Bakke
	Filename	: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
	Pages		: 4
	Date		: 2002-9-11
	
The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol [RFC1531] provides a method
for a host to retrieve common configuration parameters at boot time.
These include the host's IP address, default gateway, subnet mask,
DNS server, and other useful things.
When a host is booted from the network, it does not have access to
these configuration parameters from its local or network disk right
away; it relies instead on DHCP to provide them.  One such parameter
that is not yet provided is a list of IP hosts to which to send SNMP
notifications [RFC1448] during the boot process, particularly if the
boot fails.  As the host is already gleaning similar information from
DHCP, a new option to specify these SNMP 'trap' hosts appears to be
the simplest method to gain this information.  Hosts not booting from
the network benefit as well, since SNMP notification hosts can now be
configured centrally through DHCP.
This document describes a proposed DHCP option that specifies a list
of SNMP notification hosts to which SNMP notifications should be
sent.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep 16 10:22:44 2002
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> The draft gives an example of network architecture which involves a
> AAA server. In this case, what information the delegating router can
> give to identify the subscriber, in order that AAA server selects the
> right subscriber's prefix ?

if the customer is connected to the delegating router via a link which
already uses authentication, then that "identity" can also be used for
PD. e.g point to point links with PPP authentication.

I suppose you could also use a DHCP clientid.

/ot
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep 16 15:07:17 2002
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Here's another try at the snmp notification option for DHCP.  It's
not a formal draft; just a rough idea of what it might look like.
If this seems to be the right approach, I'll issue another revision
of the draft.

I also changed this from a binary structure to a text format, since it
needed to be fairly flexible.

--
Mark



DHCP snmp-trap-host option

Here's a quick sketch of what the new trap-host option could
look like.  I realize I need to add better detail in the
final draft.  This list of configuration attributes is from
RFC 2573 appendix A, which lists trap configuration examples.
I'm assuming that in a DHCP environment, that the only address
domain supported is UDP.  I've also assumed that some other
configuration info must exist to make the security name
meaningful, but that this information does not belong directly
in a list of notification hosts, and might be placed in some
other, more general SNMP configuration option.


snmp-notification-list option is a UTF-8 string consisting
of a comma-separated list of notification targets.  Each
notification target is a colon-separated list of parameters
in the following order:

<proc-model>:<addr>[:<security-params>]

<proc-model> is a decimal field which must match one of the
message processing model values defined in RFC 2571 in the
SnmpMessageProcessingModel TC:

   0 - SNMPv1
   1 - SNMPv2c
   2 - SNMPv2u and SNMPv2* (I'm not sure what this is for)
   3 - SNMPv3

<addr>

   This is the IP address and UDP port number of the target.  I
   wouldn't expect anyone to set up SNMP notifications over a non-IP 
   protocol such as OSI or DDP using DHCP, so I didn't include a domain.
   We could add it back in if there's good reason.


   IPv4 addresses are specified as dotted decimal with optional port:

   nn.nn.nn.nn/port

   Example: 10.1.50.100/162

   with the "/port" optional.

   IPv6 addresses are specified as a bracketed hexadecimal address,
   as specified in RFC2732, followed by the optional "/port".

   Example: [1080:0:0:0:8:800:200C:417A]/162.
   

<security-params> is optional and depends on the processing model used.

For v1 and v2c, this consists of a community string

<community-string> - The community string to use when sending
   notifications to this target.  If not specified, the default
   is "public".

For v3, this specifies the security model and its paramters, and
consists of:

   <security-model>:<security-level>:<security-name>


<security-model>

   This is the security model number from the RFC 2571 SnmpSecurityModel
   TC.  The current (decimal) values are:

   1 - SNMPv1
   2 - SNMPv2c
   3 - User-Based Security Model (USM)


<security-level>

   This is the decimal security level number as specified in the RFC 2571
   SnmpSecurityLevel TC:

   1 - noAuthNoPriv
   2 - authNoPriv
   3 - authPriv

<security-name>

   This is the UTF-8 security name to be used with notifications to this
   target.

Examples:

   A group of two v3 targets, both using USM with authentication but no
   privacy:

   3:128.1.2.3/162:3:2:joe,3:128.2.4.6/162:3:2:joe

   A single v3 target, using USM with both authentication and privacy:

   3:128.1.5.9/162:3:3:bob

   A single address that wants both v1 and v2c notifications with the
   default community string and UDP port:

   0:10.1.1.1,1:10.1.1.1

   An SNMPv2 address that uses a different community string:

   1:10.50.2.100:my-community


BTW, using 0 for v1, 1 for v2c, and 3 for v3 is confusing, and these
strings have to be typed in by DHCP adminstrators.  We could go with
text tags "v1", "v2c", and "v3" instead for message processing
models, and allow "usm" for the security model as well:

   v3:128.1.2.3/162:usm:authNoPriv:joe,3:128.2.4.6/162:usm:authNoPriv:joe
   v3:128.1.5.9/162:usm:authPriv:bob
   v1:10.1.1.1,v2c:10.1.1.1
   v2c:10.50.2.100:my-community

Any preferences?
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Tue Sep 17 12:49:50 2002
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From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:46:27 +0100
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Subject: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour & Prefix Delegation
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I'm working on the next draft of DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation. I'm trying
to avoid having to specify client/server behaviour for each type of
message exchange in the PD document. Unfortunately the base DHCPv6
specification is very IA centric with regards to all statefull message
exchanges. It would been a lot easier to add new "statefull" options
if the base spec specified the message exchange in a generic way, and
specified the IA option only in the options section. well, well, I
guess it is a bit late now.

a question on Confirm behaviour.

draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-26.txt says:
�18.2.2. Receipt of Confirm messages

   When the server receives a Confirm message, the server determines
   if the addresses in the Confirm message are appropriate to the
   link to which the client is attached.  The server ignores the T1
   and T2 fields in the IA options and the preferred-lifetime and
   valid-lifetime fields in the IA Address options.

   If all of the addresses in the Confirm message pass this test, the
   server returns a status of Success.  If any of the addresses do not
   pass this test, the server returns a status of NotOnLink.

   If the server does not find any addresses that are not appropriate to
   the link to which the client is connected, but cannot determine if
   some of the addresses are appropriate to the link or not appropriate
   to the link, the server MUST NOT send a reply to the client.  For
   example, if the server does not have information about prefixes on
   the link to which the client is connected, the server does not reply.�



from my understanding of the above, a server is allowed to reply to a
confirm even if it does not have a binding for the client.
what is the reason for not requiring that only the server with the
binding can reply to the Confirm message?

in the case of Prefix Delegation, I'm not sure it makes sense to have
servers without the binding replying. if a client has a binding
including both IA and PD options. there are two DHCP servers, one
which doesn't support PD. how should the client behave when sending a
Confirm, as it could get a reply from the non-PD server. as far as I
can tell there is no way for the client to identify which options the
server has confirmed(?). the client can ignore all replies from
servers which do not match the server-ID of course.

I would really like to avoid different behaviour for the basic message
exchanges, dependent on IA or PD.

/ot
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Tue Sep 17 14:01:44 2002
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From: "Bernie Volz (EUD)" <Bernie.Volz@am1.ericsson.se>
To: "'Ole Troan'" <ot@cisco.com>, dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour & Prefix Delegation
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Ole:

There are actually three "responses" from a server:
- Respond with a Reply indicating success.
- Respond with a Reply indicating failure.
- Don't respond (if the data can not be confirmed).

Now, if a CONFIRM includes options a server does not know about =
(because they are new
since the server was implemented), it will ignore these new options. =
And it would
then base its action on the remaining options.

In the case where there are no remaining IA options that clearly define =
whether the client is on the correct link, the server should NOT =
respond.

Otherwise, the server should be able to respond.

Please note that the CONFIRM is not "confirm all configuration =
parameters" ... it is confirm that the link is still valid. It is there =
only to help the client figure out if it can continue to use the =
configuration parameters it has (because it is still on the same link).

Should CONFIRM be used to with prefixes? I guess they could be since =
they define the
link. But if only prefixes are present, any server that hasn't =
implemented prefix
delegation would not be able to respond.

BTW, the above description is also why ANY server *can* respond if the =
IA information
available is unique enough.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Ole Troan [mailto:ot@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:46 PM
To: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour & Prefix Delegation


I'm working on the next draft of DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation. I'm trying
to avoid having to specify client/server behaviour for each type of
message exchange in the PD document. Unfortunately the base DHCPv6
specification is very IA centric with regards to all statefull message
exchanges. It would been a lot easier to add new "statefull" options
if the base spec specified the message exchange in a generic way, and
specified the IA option only in the options section. well, well, I
guess it is a bit late now.

a question on Confirm behaviour.

draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-26.txt says:
=AB18.2.2. Receipt of Confirm messages

   When the server receives a Confirm message, the server determines
   if the addresses in the Confirm message are appropriate to the
   link to which the client is attached.  The server ignores the T1
   and T2 fields in the IA options and the preferred-lifetime and
   valid-lifetime fields in the IA Address options.

   If all of the addresses in the Confirm message pass this test, the
   server returns a status of Success.  If any of the addresses do not
   pass this test, the server returns a status of NotOnLink.

   If the server does not find any addresses that are not appropriate =
to
   the link to which the client is connected, but cannot determine if
   some of the addresses are appropriate to the link or not appropriate
   to the link, the server MUST NOT send a reply to the client.  For
   example, if the server does not have information about prefixes on
   the link to which the client is connected, the server does not =
reply.=BB



from my understanding of the above, a server is allowed to reply to a
confirm even if it does not have a binding for the client.
what is the reason for not requiring that only the server with the
binding can reply to the Confirm message?

in the case of Prefix Delegation, I'm not sure it makes sense to have
servers without the binding replying. if a client has a binding
including both IA and PD options. there are two DHCP servers, one
which doesn't support PD. how should the client behave when sending a
Confirm, as it could get a reply from the non-PD server. as far as I
can tell there is no way for the client to identify which options the
server has confirmed(?). the client can ignore all replies from
servers which do not match the server-ID of course.

I would really like to avoid different behaviour for the basic message
exchanges, dependent on IA or PD.

/ot
_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2655.35">
<TITLE>RE: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour &amp; Prefix =
Delegation</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ole:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There are actually three &quot;responses&quot; from a =
server:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>- Respond with a Reply indicating success.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>- Respond with a Reply indicating failure.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>- Don't respond (if the data can not be =
confirmed).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Now, if a CONFIRM includes options a server does not =
know about (because they are new</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>since the server was implemented), it will ignore =
these new options. And it would</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>then base its action on the remaining =
options.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In the case where there are no remaining IA options =
that clearly define whether the client is on the correct link, the =
server should NOT respond.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Otherwise, the server should be able to =
respond.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please note that the CONFIRM is not &quot;confirm all =
configuration parameters&quot; ... it is confirm that the link is still =
valid. It is there only to help the client figure out if it can =
continue to use the configuration parameters it has (because it is =
still on the same link).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Should CONFIRM be used to with prefixes? I guess they =
could be since they define the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>link. But if only prefixes are present, any server =
that hasn't implemented prefix</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>delegation would not be able to respond.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>BTW, the above description is also why ANY server =
*can* respond if the IA information</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>available is unique enough.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>- Bernie</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ole Troan [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:ot@cisco.com">mailto:ot@cisco.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:46 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour &amp; =
Prefix Delegation</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm working on the next draft of DHCPv6 Prefix =
Delegation. I'm trying</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to avoid having to specify client/server behaviour =
for each type of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>message exchange in the PD document. Unfortunately =
the base DHCPv6</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>specification is very IA centric with regards to all =
statefull message</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>exchanges. It would been a lot easier to add new =
&quot;statefull&quot; options</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>if the base spec specified the message exchange in a =
generic way, and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>specified the IA option only in the options section. =
well, well, I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>guess it is a bit late now.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>a question on Confirm behaviour.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-26.txt says:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>=AB18.2.2. Receipt of Confirm messages</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; When the server receives a Confirm =
message, the server determines</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; if the addresses in the Confirm message =
are appropriate to the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; link to which the client is =
attached.&nbsp; The server ignores the T1</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; and T2 fields in the IA options and the =
preferred-lifetime and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; valid-lifetime fields in the IA Address =
options.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If all of the addresses in the Confirm =
message pass this test, the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; server returns a status of =
Success.&nbsp; If any of the addresses do not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; pass this test, the server returns a =
status of NotOnLink.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If the server does not find any =
addresses that are not appropriate to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; the link to which the client is =
connected, but cannot determine if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; some of the addresses are appropriate =
to the link or not appropriate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; to the link, the server MUST NOT send a =
reply to the client.&nbsp; For</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; example, if the server does not have =
information about prefixes on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; the link to which the client is =
connected, the server does not reply.=BB</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>from my understanding of the above, a server is =
allowed to reply to a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>confirm even if it does not have a binding for the =
client.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>what is the reason for not requiring that only the =
server with the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>binding can reply to the Confirm message?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>in the case of Prefix Delegation, I'm not sure it =
makes sense to have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>servers without the binding replying. if a client =
has a binding</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>including both IA and PD options. there are two DHCP =
servers, one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>which doesn't support PD. how should the client =
behave when sending a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Confirm, as it could get a reply from the non-PD =
server. as far as I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>can tell there is no way for the client to identify =
which options the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>server has confirmed(?). the client can ignore all =
replies from</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>servers which do not match the server-ID of =
course.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would really like to avoid different behaviour for =
the basic message</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>exchanges, dependent on IA or PD.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>/ot</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>_______________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>dhcwg mailing list</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg</A></FONT=
>
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Hi Mark,

The bulk of the current usage of SNMP is for monitoring, not configuring.
There are few mib objects that would require dynamic configuration. However,
it could be a very interesting discussion to start with the SNMP community
via the SNMPv3 list.

We're trying to wrap up and close the SNMPv3 WG. I think the discussion
would need to move to a different forum, but which forum depends to a large
degree on nature of the proposals that might come out of the discussion.

dbh

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Bakke [mailto:mbakke@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 4:42 PM
> To: Harrington, David
> Cc: 'dhcwg@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> 
> 
> David-
> 
> Thanks for the advice.  I just had a chance to go over 2571, 
> 73, and 74, and
> I think I can take a better shot at this (at least the 
> notification part).  I'll
> post to both dhcwg and the snmpv3 lists.
> 
> As far as the scope for this, I was initially just setting out to do
> enough for notifications.  Do you think that there is interest in
> configuring other agent parameters as well?
> 
> -
> Mark
> 
> > "Harrington, David" wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Mark,
> > 
> > RFC1448 is a remnant of the obsolete SNMPv2 specs. Nobody 
> supports the old RFC144x specifications.
> > You should be using SNMPv3 specifications. The most current 
> RFCs are 2570-2580, and approved
> > updates are in the editor's RFC queue.
> > 
> > RFC2573 defines a number of mibs that can be configured to 
> identify notification targets. If you
> > examine those mibs, you will find that there is more 
> information needed than just an address.
> > Therefore, your proposed message would need to contain more 
> to centrally configure SNMP targets
> > properly.
> > 
> > dbh
> > 
> > David Harrington
> > co-chair SNMPv2 WG
> > Network Management Architect
> > Office of the CTO
> > Enterasys Networks
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Mark A. Bakke
> Cisco Systems
> mbakke@cisco.com
> 763.398.1054
> 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Mark,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The bulk of the current usage of SNMP is for =
monitoring, not configuring. There are few mib objects that would =
require dynamic configuration. However, it could be a very interesting =
discussion to start with the SNMP community via the SNMPv3 =
list.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We're trying to wrap up and close the SNMPv3 WG. I =
think the discussion would need to move to a different forum, but which =
forum depends to a large degree on nature of the proposals that might =
come out of the discussion.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>dbh</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Mark Bakke [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:mbakke@cisco.com">mailto:mbakke@cisco.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 4:42 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: Harrington, David</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Cc: 'dhcwg@ietf.org'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: =
draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; David-</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thanks for the advice.&nbsp; I just had a =
chance to go over 2571, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 73, and 74, and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I think I can take a better shot at this (at =
least the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; notification part).&nbsp; I'll</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; post to both dhcwg and the snmpv3 lists.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; As far as the scope for this, I was initially =
just setting out to do</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; enough for notifications.&nbsp; Do you think =
that there is interest in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; configuring other agent parameters as =
well?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mark</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &quot;Harrington, David&quot; =
wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Hi Mark,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; RFC1448 is a remnant of the obsolete =
SNMPv2 specs. Nobody </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; supports the old RFC144x specifications.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; You should be using SNMPv3 specifications. =
The most current </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; RFCs are 2570-2580, and approved</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; updates are in the editor's RFC =
queue.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; RFC2573 defines a number of mibs that can =
be configured to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; identify notification targets. If you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; examine those mibs, you will find that =
there is more </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; information needed than just an address.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Therefore, your proposed message would =
need to contain more </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; to centrally configure SNMP targets</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; properly.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; dbh</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; David Harrington</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; co-chair SNMPv2 WG</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Network Management Architect</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Office of the CTO</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Enterasys Networks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mark A. Bakke</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Cisco Systems</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; mbakke@cisco.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 763.398.1054</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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So in your new proposal, how did/do users Joe and Bob get 
defined with their secret keys etc at the agent side?

Thanks,
Bert 
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To: "Bernie Volz (EUD)" <Bernie.Volz@am1.ericsson.se>
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour & Prefix Delegation
References: <F9211EC7A7FED4119FD9005004A6C8700A474CB5@eamrcnt723.exu.ericsson.se>
From: Ole Troan <ot@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:03:43 +0100
In-Reply-To: <F9211EC7A7FED4119FD9005004A6C8700A474CB5@eamrcnt723.exu.ericsson.se> ("Bernie
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Bernie,

> There are actually three "responses" from a server:
> - Respond with a Reply indicating success.
> - Respond with a Reply indicating failure.
> - Don't respond (if the data can not be confirmed).
>
> Now, if a CONFIRM includes options a server does not know about
> (because they are new since the server was implemented), it will
> ignore these new options. And it would then base its action on the
> remaining options.
>
> In the case where there are no remaining IA options that clearly define whether the client is on the correct link, the server should NOT respond.
>
> Otherwise, the server should be able to respond.

will the server include the options it confirms in the REPLY? this is
not clear to me from reading the spec. for both PD and IA to be
confirmed independently it must.

> Please note that the CONFIRM is not "confirm all configuration
> parameters" ... it is confirm that the link is still valid. It is
> there only to help the client figure out if it can continue to use
> the configuration parameters it has (because it is still on the same
> link).

I think CONFIRM is specified in a too restrictive way. I would like it
to be useful for any statefull option.

> Should CONFIRM be used to with prefixes? I guess they could be since
> they define the link. But if only prefixes are present, any server
> that hasn't implemented prefix delegation would not be able to
> respond.

I don't think it can be used as it currently stands. a DHCP server has
no notion of a "onlink" property of a delegated prefix. prefixes are
typically delegated to a site, not to a link.

> BTW, the above description is also why ANY server *can* respond if
> the IA information available is unique enough.

right. if the REPLY to the CONFIRM includes which options are
confirmed, and the client side text also states that the options have
to be parsed in addition to checking the status code, it should
work.

then we can add additional text in the PD document to make the client
retry CONFIRMs until all options are accounted for.

cheers,
Ole
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From: "Bernie Volz (EUD)" <Bernie.Volz@am1.ericsson.se>
To: "'Ole Troan'" <ot@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour & Prefix Delegation
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Ole:

CONFIRM is to confirm that the link is valid (or more clearly that the client is very
likely still connected (or not connected) to the same link it was on when it obtained
the address). Not that the entire configuration is valid. The assumption though is that
the configuration is valid as the client is still located where it was and the previous
lifetimes and renewal times can thus still apply.

Why do you need this to do more? If the addresses in the CONFIRM are valid, why would the
prefixes not be? We're not validating the lifetimes - just the prefixes for the addresses.

If prefix delegations are included (and the server supports prefixes), it may be able to
determine that these prefixes are valid "down the link" from which the CONFIRM came.
Probably more importantly, it can confirm if those are NOT valid. I assume that CONFIRMs
would always come from downstream routers? If a server receives the Confirm that doesn't
understand the prefix delegations, than it should only respond if it can Confirm the
prefixes for the addresses.

I do think we should add something to the CONFIRM text that says that if the server has no
options on which to base the confirmation, it must NOT reply. This case would handle the
situation where a server receives a CONFIRM but there are no options on which it can base
the decision. I think the existing text already accommodates this:
   If the server is unable to perform this test
   (for example, the server does not have information about prefixes on
   the link to which the client is connected), the server MUST NOT send
   a reply to the client.
However, it would be better to explain this just in case. Perhaps by replacing the above
text with:
   If the server is unable to perform this test
   (for example, the server does not have information about prefixes on
   the link to which the client is connected or there are no options in
   the CONFIRM for the server to test), the server MUST NOT send
   a reply to the client.

We've discussed what CONFIRM is for many times and I'd hate to reopen that discussion. By
adding the options, I fear that it will quickly be used to confirm more than whether the
client is on the correct link or not. For example, if the client sent a Domain Name option
but the Reply doesn't list that option, should the client consider the Confirm to have failed
to fully confirm its configuration. That is NOT what we wanted CONFIRM to do!

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Ole Troan [mailto:ot@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:04 PM
To: Bernie Volz (EUD)
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour & Prefix Delegation


Bernie,

> There are actually three "responses" from a server:
> - Respond with a Reply indicating success.
> - Respond with a Reply indicating failure.
> - Don't respond (if the data can not be confirmed).
>
> Now, if a CONFIRM includes options a server does not know about
> (because they are new since the server was implemented), it will
> ignore these new options. And it would then base its action on the
> remaining options.
>
> In the case where there are no remaining IA options that clearly define whether the client is on the correct link, the server should NOT respond.
>
> Otherwise, the server should be able to respond.

will the server include the options it confirms in the REPLY? this is
not clear to me from reading the spec. for both PD and IA to be
confirmed independently it must.

> Please note that the CONFIRM is not "confirm all configuration
> parameters" ... it is confirm that the link is still valid. It is
> there only to help the client figure out if it can continue to use
> the configuration parameters it has (because it is still on the same
> link).

I think CONFIRM is specified in a too restrictive way. I would like it
to be useful for any statefull option.

> Should CONFIRM be used to with prefixes? I guess they could be since
> they define the link. But if only prefixes are present, any server
> that hasn't implemented prefix delegation would not be able to
> respond.

I don't think it can be used as it currently stands. a DHCP server has
no notion of a "onlink" property of a delegated prefix. prefixes are
typically delegated to a site, not to a link.

> BTW, the above description is also why ANY server *can* respond if
> the IA information available is unique enough.

right. if the REPLY to the CONFIRM includes which options are
confirmed, and the client side text also states that the options have
to be parsed in addition to checking the status code, it should
work.

then we can add additional text in the PD document to make the client
retry CONFIRMs until all options are accounted for.

cheers,
Ole

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Ole:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>CONFIRM is to confirm that the link is valid (or more clearly that the client is very</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>likely still connected (or not connected) to the same link it was on when it obtained</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the address). Not that the entire configuration is valid. The assumption though is that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the configuration is valid as the client is still located where it was and the previous</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>lifetimes and renewal times can thus still apply.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Why do you need this to do more? If the addresses in the CONFIRM are valid, why would the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>prefixes not be? We're not validating the lifetimes - just the prefixes for the addresses.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>If prefix delegations are included (and the server supports prefixes), it may be able to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>determine that these prefixes are valid &quot;down the link&quot; from which the CONFIRM came.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Probably more importantly, it can confirm if those are NOT valid. I assume that CONFIRMs</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>would always come from downstream routers? If a server receives the Confirm that doesn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>understand the prefix delegations, than it should only respond if it can Confirm the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>prefixes for the addresses.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I do think we should add something to the CONFIRM text that says that if the server has no</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>options on which to base the confirmation, it must NOT reply. This case would handle the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>situation where a server receives a CONFIRM but there are no options on which it can base</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the decision. I think the existing text already accommodates this:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If the server is unable to perform this test</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; (for example, the server does not have information about prefixes on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; the link to which the client is connected), the server MUST NOT send</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; a reply to the client.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>However, it would be better to explain this just in case. Perhaps by replacing the above</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>text with:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If the server is unable to perform this test</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; (for example, the server does not have information about prefixes on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; the link to which the client is connected or there are no options in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; the CONFIRM for the server to test), the server MUST NOT send</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; a reply to the client.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>We've discussed what CONFIRM is for many times and I'd hate to reopen that discussion. By</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>adding the options, I fear that it will quickly be used to confirm more than whether the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>client is on the correct link or not. For example, if the client sent a Domain Name option</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>but the Reply doesn't list that option, should the client consider the Confirm to have failed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to fully confirm its configuration. That is NOT what we wanted CONFIRM to do!</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>- Bernie</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Ole Troan [<A HREF="mailto:ot@cisco.com">mailto:ot@cisco.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:04 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Bernie Volz (EUD)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 Confirm behaviour &amp; Prefix Delegation</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Bernie,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; There are actually three &quot;responses&quot; from a server:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; - Respond with a Reply indicating success.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; - Respond with a Reply indicating failure.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; - Don't respond (if the data can not be confirmed).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Now, if a CONFIRM includes options a server does not know about</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; (because they are new since the server was implemented), it will</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; ignore these new options. And it would then base its action on the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; remaining options.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; In the case where there are no remaining IA options that clearly define whether the client is on the correct link, the server should NOT respond.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Otherwise, the server should be able to respond.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>will the server include the options it confirms in the REPLY? this is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>not clear to me from reading the spec. for both PD and IA to be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>confirmed independently it must.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Please note that the CONFIRM is not &quot;confirm all configuration</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; parameters&quot; ... it is confirm that the link is still valid. It is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; there only to help the client figure out if it can continue to use</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; the configuration parameters it has (because it is still on the same</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; link).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I think CONFIRM is specified in a too restrictive way. I would like it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to be useful for any statefull option.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Should CONFIRM be used to with prefixes? I guess they could be since</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; they define the link. But if only prefixes are present, any server</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; that hasn't implemented prefix delegation would not be able to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; respond.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I don't think it can be used as it currently stands. a DHCP server has</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>no notion of a &quot;onlink&quot; property of a delegated prefix. prefixes are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>typically delegated to a site, not to a link.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; BTW, the above description is also why ANY server *can* respond if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; the IA information available is unique enough.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>right. if the REPLY to the CONFIRM includes which options are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>confirmed, and the client side text also states that the options have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to be parsed in addition to checking the status code, it should</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>work.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>then we can add additional text in the PD document to make the client</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>retry CONFIRMs until all options are accounted for.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Ole</FONT>
</P>

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From: "Afshan Mahmood" <afshanm@nortelnetworks.com>
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Has anyone tried a DHCP server with capacity using adtech. I need a DHCP
server which can keep up with the traffic that I am creating with Adtech.

DHCP server requirement 

I  need a DHCP server, with DHCP client and DHCP relay option. Which can
assign ip addresses with a rate of 250/sec. 

Let me know 
Thanks 

Afshan Mahmood


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charset=3Dus-ascii">
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5.5.2654.89">
<TITLE>DHCP - Server </TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Times New Roman">Has anyone tried a DHCP =
server with capacity using adtech. I need a DHCP server which can keep =
up with the traffic that I am creating with Adtech.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Times New Roman">DHCP server requirement =
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Times New Roman">I&nbsp; need a DHCP server, =
with DHCP client and DHCP relay option. Which can assign ip addresses =
with a rate of 250/sec. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Times New Roman">Let me know </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Times New Roman">Thanks </FONT>
</P>

<P><B><I><FONT COLOR=3D"#800000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Book Antiqua">Afshan =
Mahmood</FONT></I></B>
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David-

I'm copying the mibs@ops.ietf.org list on this as well; is it
sufficient?  Should I not send this to snmpv3?

Thanks,

Mark

> "Harrington, David" wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> The bulk of the current usage of SNMP is for monitoring, not configuring. There are few mib
> objects that would require dynamic configuration. However, it could be a very interesting
> discussion to start with the SNMP community via the SNMPv3 list.
> 
> We're trying to wrap up and close the SNMPv3 WG. I think the discussion would need to move to a
> different forum, but which forum depends to a large degree on nature of the proposals that might
> come out of the discussion.
> 
> dbh
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Bakke [mailto:mbakke@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 4:42 PM
> > To: Harrington, David
> > Cc: 'dhcwg@ietf.org'
> > Subject: Re: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> >
> >
> > David-
> >
> > Thanks for the advice.  I just had a chance to go over 2571,
> > 73, and 74, and
> > I think I can take a better shot at this (at least the
> > notification part).  I'll
> > post to both dhcwg and the snmpv3 lists.
> >
> > As far as the scope for this, I was initially just setting out to do
> > enough for notifications.  Do you think that there is interest in
> > configuring other agent parameters as well?
> >
> > -
> > Mark
> >
> > > "Harrington, David" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > >
> > > RFC1448 is a remnant of the obsolete SNMPv2 specs. Nobody
> > supports the old RFC144x specifications.
> > > You should be using SNMPv3 specifications. The most current
> > RFCs are 2570-2580, and approved
> > > updates are in the editor's RFC queue.
> > >
> > > RFC2573 defines a number of mibs that can be configured to
> > identify notification targets. If you
> > > examine those mibs, you will find that there is more
> > information needed than just an address.
> > > Therefore, your proposed message would need to contain more
> > to centrally configure SNMP targets
> > > properly.
> > >
> > > dbh
> > >
> > > David Harrington
> > > co-chair SNMPv2 WG
> > > Network Management Architect
> > > Office of the CTO
> > > Enterasys Networks
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Mark A. Bakke
> > Cisco Systems
> > mbakke@cisco.com
> > 763.398.1054
> >

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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I assumed that, when we get to configuring SNMPv3 security,
that the names "joe" and "bob" would be separately associated
with their keys.  I wanted to keep this particular DHCP
option scope to include the notification list, and the names
would reference keys configured somewhere else (perhaps another
DHCP option, but since I haven't seen encrypted DHCP, this
might not work).  In other words, I don't know, but I think
that if it was DHCP, it would be better as a separate option.

Any ideas?

"Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" wrote:
> 
> So in your new proposal, how did/do users Joe and Bob get
> defined with their secret keys etc at the agent side?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bert

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>,
        "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)"
	 <bwijnen@lucent.com>
Cc: "'dhcwg@ietf.org'" <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
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So it seems you did not think about it in detail.
What I hate to see is a partial solution to jsut the trap
handling. That is what the IPCDN (cable modem folk) seemed
to be doing too... and I pushed back on that (partial)
solution too. I do not have a answer ready... 

First question would be: is it a generic problem that people face?

Second question: what is the complete scope of the problem?

Third question: what would be a good/feasable/workable solution?

Thanks,
Bert 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Bakke [mailto:mbakke@cisco.com]
> Sent: maandag 23 september 2002 15:55
> To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> Cc: 'dhcwg@ietf.org'; snmpv3@lists. tislabs. com (E-mail);
> mibs@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> 
> 
> I assumed that, when we get to configuring SNMPv3 security,
> that the names "joe" and "bob" would be separately associated
> with their keys.  I wanted to keep this particular DHCP
> option scope to include the notification list, and the names
> would reference keys configured somewhere else (perhaps another
> DHCP option, but since I haven't seen encrypted DHCP, this
> might not work).  In other words, I don't know, but I think
> that if it was DHCP, it would be better as a separate option.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" wrote:
> > 
> > So in your new proposal, how did/do users Joe and Bob get
> > defined with their secret keys etc at the agent side?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Bert
> 
> -- 
> Mark A. Bakke
> Cisco Systems
> mbakke@cisco.com
> 763.398.1054
> 
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep 23 17:19:46 2002
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"Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" wrote:
> 
> So it seems you did not think about it in detail.
> What I hate to see is a partial solution to jsut the trap
> handling. That is what the IPCDN (cable modem folk) seemed
> to be doing too... and I pushed back on that (partial)
> solution too. I do not have a answer ready...
> 
> First question would be: is it a generic problem that people face?

Yes.  There are increasingly more solutions that allow hosts,
racks of servers, embedded devices, etc. to be booted from
the network.  When this fails, the host's normal configuration
info (particularly the SNMP notification list) is not available,
so there's no good way to tell a management station about it.

I assume that most networks would want to use SNMP for this,
but syslog would work as well.

> 
> Second question: what is the complete scope of the problem?

My personal complete scope is to set a notification list for
SNMPv1 and v2c hosts, with v3 a possibility in the future.
Since this is used only for notifications, I assume that
supporting v3 authentication would be a good idea (so
notifications are not spoofed) but that privacy is probably
not that much of an issue (but again, may need to be there
for completeness).  

> Third question: what would be a good/feasable/workable solution?

However, it may not be possible to configure enough of the
security stuff securely (did I say that right) using DHCP
to actually make use of v3 security.

If that's the case, there could be a compromise:

- Configure the list of v1, v2c, and v3 notification targets
  as I had proposed, with only the security name (and not the
  keys) in the v3 target strings.
- During boot, if a notification needs to be sent, and the v3
  security parameters are not yet known for a target, skip
  that target, but still send to the others in the list (such
  as the v1 and v2c targets).
- Once the host has booted far enough so the security parameters
  are known (through its normal configuration), include the v3
  targets in any notifications.

This means two scenarios can happen:

1. A host, during boot, only sends v1 and/or v2c notifications
   without security.  Once it's up and running, notifications
   include v3 targets, too.

2. A host has v3 username-to-security-parameter settings in its
   non-volatile configuration.  These are available during boot,
   and can be associated with a notification target from DHCP
   by its security-name.  This might be the best direction to
   go for the future; have security keys in the machines, and
   the actual targets for notification controlled centrally via
   DHCP.

I think this would be a reasonable solution, given that it's
probably not practical to configure the security keys for a host
using DHCP.

Does this help?

--
Mark

> 
> Thanks,
> Bert
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Bakke [mailto:mbakke@cisco.com]
> > Sent: maandag 23 september 2002 15:55
> > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> > Cc: 'dhcwg@ietf.org'; snmpv3@lists. tislabs. com (E-mail);
> > mibs@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> >
> >
> > I assumed that, when we get to configuring SNMPv3 security,
> > that the names "joe" and "bob" would be separately associated
> > with their keys.  I wanted to keep this particular DHCP
> > option scope to include the notification list, and the names
> > would reference keys configured somewhere else (perhaps another
> > DHCP option, but since I haven't seen encrypted DHCP, this
> > might not work).  In other words, I don't know, but I think
> > that if it was DHCP, it would be better as a separate option.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" wrote:
> > >
> > > So in your new proposal, how did/do users Joe and Bob get
> > > defined with their secret keys etc at the agent side?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bert
> >
> > --
> > Mark A. Bakke
> > Cisco Systems
> > mbakke@cisco.com
> > 763.398.1054
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

-- 
Mark A. Bakke
Cisco Systems
mbakke@cisco.com
763.398.1054
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Tue Sep 24 07:20:07 2002
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helooooooo

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 25 21:45:45 2002
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
Cc: "'dhcwg@ietf.org'" <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
        "snmpv3@lists. tislabs. com (E-mail)" <snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com>,
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Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:16:07 +0200
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Mark, thanks for the details.

Now... I have seen some discussion as to possible issues and
such (I guess I am to blame for some of that).

What I have not yet seen is any supportive statements from
people that they indeed need this functionality. Best would
be if operators of course tell us they need it. But in 
general, we'd like to hear statements about the need for
this functionality. So an answer to this question:

> > First question would be: is it a generic problem that people face?
> Yes.  There are increasingly more solutions that allow hosts,
> racks of servers, embedded devices, etc. to be booted from
> the network.  When this fails, the host's normal configuration
> info (particularly the SNMP notification list) is not available,
> so there's no good way to tell a management station about it.
> 
> I assume that most networks would want to use SNMP for this,
> but syslog would work as well.
> 

Mark's answer is just one answer that seem to support a YES answer
Any others?

Thanks,
Bert 
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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Wed Sep 25 21:46:06 2002
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Hi -

> Message-ID: <A451D5E6F15FD211BABC0008C7FAD7BC0EFFE01F@nl0006exch003u.nl.lucent.com>
> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
> To: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
> Cc: "'dhcwg@ietf.org'" <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
>         "snmpv3@lists. tislabs. com (E-mail)" <snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com>,
>         mibs@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:16:07 +0200
...
> > > First question would be: is it a generic problem that people face?
> > Yes.  There are increasingly more solutions that allow hosts,
> > racks of servers, embedded devices, etc. to be booted from
> > the network.  When this fails, the host's normal configuration
> > info (particularly the SNMP notification list) is not available,
> > so there's no good way to tell a management station about it.
> > 
> > I assume that most networks would want to use SNMP for this,
> > but syslog would work as well.
> > 
> 
> Mark's answer is just one answer that seem to support a YES answer
> Any others?
...

There has been some other work in the area of getting out
notifications of "pre-OS" systems, e.g.,
http://www.dmtf.org/standards/documents/ASF/DSP0114.pdf

However, this work does *not* address security, other than
to discourage implementors from providing protocol-level
security and to instead rely on "deployment schemes and
firewalls" (!).

Could information delivered via DHCP be used to accomplish a
"kick start" of the secrets, similar to that in RFC 2786?

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn          BMC Software, Inc.  SJC-1.3141
 randy_presuhn@bmc.com  2141 North First Street
 Tel: +1 408 546-1006   San Jos�, California 95131  USA
 ------------------------------------------------------
 My opinions and BMC's are independent variables.
 ------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Andrea Westerinen" <andreaw@cisco.com>
To: "Randy Presuhn" <rpresuhn@dorothy.bmc.com>, <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
        <mibs@ops.ietf.org>, <snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com>
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:55:16 -0700
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An updated version of ASF (2.0) is currently in DMTF company review that
"adds security protocols to RMCP messages."  So, the message below is not
totally correct.  This version of the spec will be available shortly after
company review ends (Oct 15th).

Andrea

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg-admin@ietf.org [mailto:dhcwg-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
Randy Presuhn
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:45 AM
To: dhcwg@ietf.org; mibs@ops.ietf.org; snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt


Hi -

> Message-ID:
<A451D5E6F15FD211BABC0008C7FAD7BC0EFFE01F@nl0006exch003u.nl.lucent.com>
> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
> To: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
> Cc: "'dhcwg@ietf.org'" <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
>         "snmpv3@lists. tislabs. com (E-mail)" <snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com>,
>         mibs@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:16:07 +0200
...
> > > First question would be: is it a generic problem that people face?
> > Yes.  There are increasingly more solutions that allow hosts,
> > racks of servers, embedded devices, etc. to be booted from
> > the network.  When this fails, the host's normal configuration
> > info (particularly the SNMP notification list) is not available,
> > so there's no good way to tell a management station about it.
> >
> > I assume that most networks would want to use SNMP for this,
> > but syslog would work as well.
> >
>
> Mark's answer is just one answer that seem to support a YES answer
> Any others?
...

There has been some other work in the area of getting out
notifications of "pre-OS" systems, e.g.,
http://www.dmtf.org/standards/documents/ASF/DSP0114.pdf

However, this work does *not* address security, other than
to discourage implementors from providing protocol-level
security and to instead rely on "deployment schemes and
firewalls" (!).

Could information delivered via DHCP be used to accomplish a
"kick start" of the secrets, similar to that in RFC 2786?

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn          BMC Software, Inc.  SJC-1.3141
 randy_presuhn@bmc.com  2141 North First Street
 Tel: +1 408 546-1006   San Josi, California 95131  USA
 ------------------------------------------------------
 My opinions and BMC's are independent variables.
 ------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: DHCP Options for Internet Storage Name Service
	Author(s)	: J. Tseng et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-dhc-isnsoption-03.txt,.pdf
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 2002-9-25
	
This document describes the DHCP option to allow iSNS clients using
DHCP to automatically discover the location of the iSNS server. iSNS
provides discovery and management capabilities for iSCSI and Fibre
Channel (FCP) storage devices in an enterprise-scale IP storage
network.  iSNS provides intelligent storage management services
comparable to those found in Fibre Channel networks, allowing a
commodity IP network to function in a similar capacity as a storage
area network.

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Thu Sep 26 09:40:47 2002
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Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 06:31:10 -0700
From: Audrey Van Belleghem <audrey@vanb.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 for IPv6 interop testing
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The Connectathon 2003 team is interested in learning how many companies
would like to test DHCPv6 at the next interoperability testing event,
Feb. 27-March 6, 2003 in San Jose, California.

If you are interested in seeing this protocol added to the agenda,
please send email to audrey@vanb.com.

Thank you.

Audrey Van Belleghem
Connectathon Manager

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From dhcwg-admin@ietf.org  Mon Sep 30 06:54:36 2002
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From: "Andrea Westerinen" <andreaw@cisco.com>
To: "Randy Presuhn" <rpresuhn@dorothy.bmc.com>, <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
        <mibs@ops.ietf.org>, <snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com>
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:55:16 -0700
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An updated version of ASF (2.0) is currently in DMTF company review that
"adds security protocols to RMCP messages."  So, the message below is not
totally correct.  This version of the spec will be available shortly after
company review ends (Oct 15th).

Andrea

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg-admin@ietf.org [mailto:dhcwg-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
Randy Presuhn
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:45 AM
To: dhcwg@ietf.org; mibs@ops.ietf.org; snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com
Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt


Hi -

> Message-ID:
<A451D5E6F15FD211BABC0008C7FAD7BC0EFFE01F@nl0006exch003u.nl.lucent.com>
> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
> To: Mark Bakke <mbakke@cisco.com>
> Cc: "'dhcwg@ietf.org'" <dhcwg@ietf.org>,
>         "snmpv3@lists. tislabs. com (E-mail)" <snmpv3@lists.tislabs.com>,
>         mibs@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] RE: draft-bakke-dhc-snmp-trap-00.txt
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:16:07 +0200
...
> > > First question would be: is it a generic problem that people face?
> > Yes.  There are increasingly more solutions that allow hosts,
> > racks of servers, embedded devices, etc. to be booted from
> > the network.  When this fails, the host's normal configuration
> > info (particularly the SNMP notification list) is not available,
> > so there's no good way to tell a management station about it.
> >
> > I assume that most networks would want to use SNMP for this,
> > but syslog would work as well.
> >
>
> Mark's answer is just one answer that seem to support a YES answer
> Any others?
...

There has been some other work in the area of getting out
notifications of "pre-OS" systems, e.g.,
http://www.dmtf.org/standards/documents/ASF/DSP0114.pdf

However, this work does *not* address security, other than
to discourage implementors from providing protocol-level
security and to instead rely on "deployment schemes and
firewalls" (!).

Could information delivered via DHCP be used to accomplish a
"kick start" of the secrets, similar to that in RFC 2786?

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn          BMC Software, Inc.  SJC-1.3141
 randy_presuhn@bmc.com  2141 North First Street
 Tel: +1 408 546-1006   San Josi, California 95131  USA
 ------------------------------------------------------
 My opinions and BMC's are independent variables.
 ------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


