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Subject: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
        Authors         : Ian Farrer
                          Qi Sun
                          Yong Cui
                          Linhui Sun
	Filename        : draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2017-02-01

Abstract:
   DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 [RFC7341] describes a mechanism for dynamically
   configuring IPv4 over an IPv6-only network.  For DHCPv4 over DHCPv6
   to function with some IPv4-over-IPv6 softwire mechanisms and
   deployment scenarios, the operator must learn the /128 IPv6 address
   that the client will use as the source of IPv4-in-IPv6 tunnel.  This
   address, in conjunction with the IPv4 address and the Port Set ID
   allocated to the DHCP 4o6 client are used to create a binding table
   entry in the softwire tunnel concentrator.  This memo defines two
   DHCPv6 options used to communicate the source tunnel IPv6 address
   between the DHCP 4o6 client and server.  It also describes a method
   for configuring the client with the IPv6 address of the border router
   so that the softwire can be established.  It is designed to work in
   conjunction with the IPv4 address allocation process.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 23:50:23 +0800
Message-ID: <CAFx+hEO0x9EVCOgA1YDU7O-1wfRPnsiDzK5GB=MAHSqcir2JMw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dhcwg/Y7V9X_9Wp53aQYVb3CesizknbUY>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>, Roni Even <roni.even@mail01.huawei.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue.all@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05
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Hi Roni,

Thank you for the response, please see inline.

Cheers,
Tianxiang

2017-02-01 15:02 GMT+08:00 Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>:

> Hi,
>
> See inline
>
> Roni
>
>
>
> *From:* Gen-art [mailto:gen-art-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *tianxian=
g
> li
> *Sent:* =D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D =D7=92 31 =D7=99=D7=A0=D7=95=D7=90=D7=A8 2017 =
17:59
> *To:* Roni Even
> *Cc:* dhcwg; gen-art@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue.all@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-l
> ength-hint-issue-05
>
>
>
> Dear Roni,
>
>
>
> Thank you for providing a thorough review of this document.
>
>
>
> I have a few questions regarding the comments, please see inline.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tianxiang
>
>
>
> 2017-01-29 17:02 GMT+08:00 Roni Even <roni.even@mail01.huawei.com>:
>
> Reviewer: Roni Even
> Review result: Almost Ready
>
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
> like any other last call comments.
>
> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>
> Document: draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05
> Reviewer: Roni Even
> Review Date: 2017-01-29
> IETF LC End Date: 2017-02-09
> IESG Telechat date: 2017-02-16
>
> Summary: This draft is almost ready for publication as a standard
> track RFC.
>
>
> Major issues:
>
> Minor issues:
>
> 1.      I think that this document updates RFC3633 and it should be
> mentioned in the title and abstract
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] This document does not change any of the text in RFC 3633, bu=
t
> specifies the client and server behavior when using the "prefix-length
> hint", which was not explained in RFC3633. Would it be suitable to state
> "this document updates RFC3633"?
>
> *[Roni Even] Yes, this is what I meant and it needs to be written in  the
> title and abstract, it will also point people looking at RFC3633 to this
> document*
>
>
>
[Tianxiang2] Okay, we could add a sentence in the end of the abstract
saying "This document updates RFC3633".

For the title, we followed a similar name with RFC7550 which updated
RFC3315 and RFC3633. It was titled "Issues and Recommendations with
Multiple Stateful DHCPv6 Options". Do you have some recommendations on how
to change the document title?

> 2.      In section 3.1 reference RFC3315 for solicit message and 3.3 for
> advertise messge
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] Okay, we'll add reference to RFC3315 in section 3.1 and 3.3
> when mentioning Solicit and Advertise messgae.
>
> *[Roni Even] OK*
>
>
>
> 3.      In section 3.1 solution last paragraph is the order of the two
> IAPREFIX options important?
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] There is no strict requirement for the order of the two
> options. Would you prefer if we added a sentence to specify this?
>
> *[Roni Even] I assumed this was the case but it will better to clarify*
>
>
>
> 4.      In section 3.2 solution why are you suing SHOULD and not MUST in
> all recommendations?
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] In this document, we used "MUST" for some of the client
> behaviors, as they are mandatory to avoid client failure and necessary if
> the client wanted to express its prefix-length requirement.
>
>
>
> For server behavior, we used "SHOULD" because this document specifies the
> desired server behavior if the server wants to consider the prefix-length
> hint, but the server could have its own behavioral policy (e.g. neglect t=
he
> prefix-length hint).
>
> *[Roni Even] This make sense, but it will be good to clarify why it is a
> SHOULD using your explanation*
>
>
>
> 5.      In section 3.2 solution, what should the server do if cannot
> provide any of the requests
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] If the server could not provide the requested prefix or
> prefix-length, it should provide a prefix closest to the prefix-length
> hint, as stated in the last sentence of section 3.2.
>
>
>
> Are you referring to what the sever should do of it simply could not
> provide ANY prefixes to the client? In that case, we could add a sentence
> at the end of the section 3.2:
>
>
>
> "If the server will not assign any prefixes to any IA_PDs in a subsequent
> Request from the client, the server MUST send an Advertise message to the
> client as described in section 11.2 of RFC 3633."
>
> *[Roni Even] This sentence is what I was looking for.*
>
>
>
> 6.      In section 3.2 solution last paragraph =E2=80=9CSHOULD try to pro=
vide=E2=80=9D and
> in the first paragraph =E2=80=9CSHOULD provide=E2=80=9D should be the sam=
e in both.
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] Thanks for pointing that out, we'll change it to "SHOULD
> provide".
>
>
>
> *[Roni Even] OK*
>
>
>
> 7.      In section 3.4 =E2=80=9CIf the client decided to use  the prefix =
provided
> by the server despite being longer than the  prefix-length hint=E2=80=9D =
yet I
> did not see in section 3.2 that the server can provide a longer
> prefix.
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] This was mentioned in the last sentence of section 3.2:
>
>
>
> "If the requested prefix is not available in the server's prefix pool, an=
d
> the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD option,
> then the server SHOULD try to provide a prefix matching the prefix-length
> value, or the prefix with the shortest length possible which is closest t=
o
> the prefix-length hint value."
>
> *[Roni Even] I understood from 3.2 that it should provide a shorter lengt=
h
> prefix  closer to the request maybe =E2=80=9C*or the prefix with the clos=
est
> possible length to the prefix-length hint value=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
[Tianxiang2] The original sentence was a bit confusing, perhaps we could
change it like this:

OLD: "If the requested prefix is not available in the server's prefix pool,
and the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD option,
then the server SHOULD try to provide a prefix matching the prefix-length
value, or the prefix with the shortest length possible which is closest to
the prefix-length hint value."

NEW:"If the requested prefix is not available in the server's prefix pool,
and the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD option,
then the server SHOULD provide a prefix matching the prefix-length hint, or
a prefix which is length is shorter and as close as possible to the
prefix-length hint. If the server could not provide a prefix which length
is shorter or equal to the prefix-length hint, the server SHOULD provide
the prefix which length is longer and as close as possible to the
prefix-length hint."

8.      In section 3.5 solution the document use =E2=80=9Cas close as possi=
ble=E2=80=9D and
> section 3.2 only talk about smaller.
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] This was mentioned in the last sentence of section 3.2.
>
> *[Roni Even] See above to point 7*
>
>
>
> 9.     In section 3.5 solution why offer options 3 and 4. The draft
> says that option 3 will break client connections and 4 talks about =E2=80=
=9Ca
> short non-zero valid-lifetime=E2=80=9D which may cause the  client to los=
e
> connection if "too short for the client" since =E2=80=9Cshort=E2=80=9D is=
 not an exact
> value
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] The idea was to list all the options, and discuss their
> consequences. And the server could decide which option to use depending o=
n
> its policy.
>
>
>
> Option 3 avoids the complexity of handling multiple delegated prefixes,
> despite of breaking up all connections. Option 4 allows to server to
> configure a valid-lifetime for the old prefix depending on actual
> requirements, rather than let the old prefix expire on its own.
>
> *[Roni Even] OK, still option 4 may have similar result to 3 since =E2=80=
=9Ca
> short non-zero=E2=80=9D may be too short. Why not add a recommended value=
?*
>
>
>
[Tianxiang2] Agree, as this may vary for different services, we could
change the text to say "a specific valid-lifetime depending on the actual
requirement".


>
>
>
> Nits/editorial comments:
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roni,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the response, pl=
ease see inline.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tianxiang</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-02-01 15:02 =
GMT+08:00 Roni Even <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roni.even@huawe=
i.com" target=3D"_blank">roni.even@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmail-m_-49=
00649193753751102WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">See inline<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Roni<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:tahoma,=
sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:tahom=
a,sans-serif"> Gen-art [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gen-art-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">gen-art-bounces@ietf.o<wbr>rg</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>tianxiang li<br>
<b>Sent:</b> <span lang=3D"HE" dir=3D"RTL">=D7=99=D7=95=D7=9D=C2=A0=D7=92 3=
1 =D7=99=D7=A0=D7=95=D7=90=D7=A8 2017 17:59</span><br>
<b>To:</b> Roni Even<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dhcwg; <a href=3D"mailto:gen-art@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">gen=
-art@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ietf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ietf@=
ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-is=
sue.all@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-l<wbr>engt=
h-hint-issue.all@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-l<wbr>=
ength-hint-issue-05<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><div><div class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246g=
mail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Roni,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for providing a thorough review of this do=
cument.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have a few questions regarding the comments, pleas=
e see inline.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tianxiang<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><div><div class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246g=
mail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2017-01-29 17:02 GMT+08:00 Roni Even &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:roni.even@mail01.huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">roni.even@mail01.huaw=
ei.com</a>&gt;:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Reviewer: Roni Even<br>
Review result: Almost Ready<br>
<br>
I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area<br>
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed<br>
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.=C2=A0 Please treat these comments just<br>
like any other last call comments.<br>
<br>
For more information, please see the FAQ at<br>
<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ge<wbr>n/wiki/GenArtfaq</a>&gt;.<br>
<br>
Document: draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-l<wbr>ength-hint-issue-05<br>
Reviewer: Roni Even<br>
Review Date: 2017-01-29<br>
IETF LC End Date: 2017-02-09<br>
IESG Telechat date: 2017-02-16<br>
<br>
Summary: This draft is almost ready for publication as a standard<br>
track RFC.<br>
<br>
<br>
Major issues:<br>
<br>
Minor issues:<br>
<br>
1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think that this document updates RFC3633 and it sh=
ould be<br>
mentioned in the title and abstract<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div><div><div><div class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021=
12207049246gmail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] This document does not change any of the=
 text in RFC 3633, but specifies the client and server behavior when using =
the &quot;prefix-length hint&quot;, which was not explained in RFC3633. Wou=
ld it be suitable to state &quot;this document updates
 RFC3633&quot;?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] Yes, this is w=
hat I meant and it needs to be written in=C2=A0 the title and abstract, it =
will also point people looking at RFC3633 to this document</span></i></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div></span></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote><div>[Tianxiang2] Okay, we could add a sentence in the =
end of the abstract saying &quot;This document updates RFC3633&quot;.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>For the title, we followed a similar name with RFC7550 =
which updated RFC3315 and RFC3633. It was titled &quot;Issues and Recommend=
ations with Multiple Stateful DHCPv6 Options&quot;. Do you have some recomm=
endations on how to change the document title?</div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-60607269795=
36003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmail-m_-4900649193753751102WordSection=
1"><div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;borde=
r-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div><div><span class=
=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmail-"><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.1 reference RFC3=
315 for solicit message and 3.3 for<br>
advertise messge=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] Okay, we&#39;ll add reference to RFC3315=
 in section 3.1 and 3.3 when mentioning Solicit and Advertise messgae.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] OK</span></i></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">3.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.1 solution last =
paragraph is the order of the two<br>
IAPREFIX options important?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] There is no strict requirement for the o=
rder of the two options. Would you prefer if we added a sentence to specify=
 this?<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] I assumed this was =
the case but it will better to clarify</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.2 solution why a=
re you suing SHOULD and not MUST in<br>
all recommendations?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] In this document, we used &quot;MUST&quo=
t; for some of the client behaviors, as they are mandatory to avoid client =
failure and necessary if the client wanted to express its prefix-length req=
uirement.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For server behavior, we used &quot;SHOULD&quot; beca=
use this document specifies the desired server behavior if the server wants=
 to consider the prefix-length hint, but the server could have its own beha=
vioral policy (e.g. neglect the prefix-length
 hint).<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] This make sense, bu=
t it will be good to clarify why it is a SHOULD using your explanation</spa=
n></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">5.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.2 solution, what=
 should the server do if cannot<br>
provide any of the requests<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] If the server could not provide the requ=
ested prefix or prefix-length, it should provide a prefix closest to the pr=
efix-length hint, as stated in the last sentence of section 3.2.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Are you referring to what the sever should do of it =
simply could not provide ANY prefixes to the client? In that case, we could=
 add a sentence at the end of the section 3.2:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&quot;If the server will not assign any prefixes to =
any IA_PDs in a subsequent Request from the client, the server MUST send an=
 Advertise message to the client as described in section 11.2 of RFC 3633.&=
quot;<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] This sentence is wh=
at I was looking for.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">6.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.2 solution last =
paragraph =E2=80=9CSHOULD try to provide=E2=80=9D and<br>
in the first paragraph =E2=80=9CSHOULD provide=E2=80=9D should be the same =
in both.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] Thanks for pointing that out, we&#39;ll =
change it to &quot;SHOULD provide&quot;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] OK<u></u><u></u></span></i=
></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">7.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.4 =E2=80=9CIf th=
e client decided to use=C2=A0 the prefix provided<br>
by the server despite being longer than the=C2=A0 prefix-length hint=E2=80=
=9D yet I<br>
did not see in section 3.2 that the server can provide a longer<br>
prefix.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] This was mentioned in the last sentence =
of section 3.2:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&quot;If the requested prefix is not available in th=
e server&#39;s prefix pool, and the client also included a prefix-length hi=
nt in the same IA_PD option, then the server SHOULD try to provide a prefix=
 matching the prefix-length value, or the prefix
 with the shortest length possible which is closest to the prefix-length hi=
nt value.&quot;<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] I understood from 3=
.2 that it should provide a shorter length prefix =C2=A0closer to the reque=
st maybe =E2=80=9C</span></i></b>or the prefix with the closest
 possible length to the prefix-length hint value=E2=80=9D<span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div></span></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote><div>[Tianxiang2] The original sentence was a bit confu=
sing, perhaps we could change it like this:</div><div><br></div><div>OLD:=
=C2=A0&quot;If the requested prefix is not available in the server&#39;s pr=
efix pool, and the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA=
_PD option, then the server SHOULD try to provide a prefix matching the pre=
fix-length value, or the prefix with the shortest length possible which is =
closest to the prefix-length hint value.&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>NEW=
:&quot;If the requested prefix is not available in the server&#39;s prefix =
pool, and the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD o=
ption, then the server SHOULD provide a prefix matching the prefix-length h=
int, or a prefix which is length is shorter and as close as possible to the=
 prefix-length hint. If the server could not provide a prefix which length =
is shorter or equal to the prefix-length hint, the server SHOULD provide th=
e prefix which length is longer and as close as possible to the prefix-leng=
th hint.&quot;</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_=
-6524802112207049246gmail-m_-4900649193753751102WordSection1"><div style=3D=
"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1.5pt sol=
id blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div><div><span class=3D"m_-606072697=
9536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmail-"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">8.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.5 solution the d=
ocument use =E2=80=9Cas close as possible=E2=80=9D and<br>
section 3.2 only talk about smaller.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] This was mentioned in the last sentence =
of section 3.2.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] See above to point =
7</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmai=
l-">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">9.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In section 3.5 solution why of=
fer options 3 and 4. The draft<br>
says that option 3 will break client connections and 4 talks about =E2=80=
=9Ca<br>
short non-zero valid-lifetime=E2=80=9D which may cause the=C2=A0 client to =
lose<br>
connection if &quot;too short for the client&quot; since =E2=80=9Cshort=E2=
=80=9D is not an exact<br>
value=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] The idea was to list all the options, an=
d discuss their consequences. And the server could decide which option to u=
se depending on its policy.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"m_-6060726979536003119gmail-m_-65248021122070492=
46gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Option 3 avoids the complexity of handling multiple =
delegated prefixes, despite of breaking up all connections. Option 4 allows=
 to server to configure a valid-lifetime for the old prefix depending on ac=
tual requirements, rather than let
 the old prefix expire on its own.<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Roni Even] OK, still option 4 =
may have similar result to 3 since =E2=80=9Ca short non-zero=E2=80=9D may b=
e too short. Why not add a recommended value?<u></u><u></u></span></i></b><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote><div>[Tianxiang2] Agree, as this may vary for different servic=
es, we could change the text to say &quot;a specific valid-lifetime dependi=
ng on the actual requirement&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-6=
060726979536003119gmail-m_-6524802112207049246gmail-m_-4900649193753751102W=
ordSection1"><div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:=
none;border-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div><div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
<br>
Nits/editorial comments:<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a1140a4621dc8a505477a049b--


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From: kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>
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Cc: Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>, dhc-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, Kim Kinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Ben,

Thanks for the review.  My comments are indented below.

> On Jan 31, 2017, at 6:30 PM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:
> 
> Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: Discuss
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I think the security considerations need some elaboration. The draft says
> "When operating in secure mode...", but it doesn't discuss when one might
> want to run in secure more vs non-secure mode. It would be helpful to
> discuss actual threats. You mention TCP DoS attacks, but, for example,
> can an eavesdropper learn sensitive or private information? Is there a
> risk of someone impersonating a partner? Tampering with messages on the
> network?
> 
> There's a mention of using TLS certs for authentication/authorization,
> but I think there's more to be said there. Is there any authentication or
> authorization if you aren't using secure mode? How do you match a TLS
> certificate to the partner name?
> 
> The section opens saying that the security considerations from 3315 and
> 3633 apply, but I doubt either of those contemplated that you would be
> sending DHCP messages over TCP connections between partner servers.

  While I could try to answer your questions directly, it seemed like
  offering an augmented Security Considerations section might be more
  useful.  This takes into account both your comments and Kathleen
  Moriarty's comments as well:


   DHCPv6 failover is an extension of a standard DHCPv6 protocol, so
   all security considerations from [RFC3315], Section 23 and
   [RFC3633], Section 15 related to the server apply.

   The use of TCP introduces some additional concerns.  Attacks that
   attempt to exhaust the DHCP server's available TCP connection
   resources can compromise the ability of legitimate partners to
   receive service.  Malicious requestors who succeed in establishing
   connections but who then send invalid messages, partial messages,
   or no messages at all can also exhaust a server's pool of available
   connections.

   DHCPv6 failover can operate in secure or insecure mode.  Secure
   mode (using TLS) would be indicated when the TCP connection between
   failover partners is open to external monitoring or interception.
   Insecure mode should only be used when the TCP connection between
   failover partners remains within set of protected systems.  Details
   of such protections are beyond the scope of this document.

   The threats created by using failover directly mirror those from
   using DHCPv6 itself: information leakage through monitoring, and
   disruption of address assignment and configuration.  Monitoring the
   failover TCP connection provides no additional data beyond that
   available from monitoring the interactions between DHCPv6 clients
   and the DHCPv6 server.  Likewise, manipulating the data flow
   between failover servers provides no additional opportunities to
   disrupt address assignment and configuration beyond that provided
   by acting as a counterfeit DHCP server.  Protection from both
   threats is easier than with basic DHCPv6, as only a single TCP
   connection needs to be protected.  Either use secure mode to
   protect that TCP connection or ensure that it can only exist with a
   set of protected systems.

   When operating in secure mode, TLS [RFC5246] is used to secure the
   connection.  The recommendations in [RFC7525] SHOULD be followed
   when negotiating a TLS connection.

   Servers SHOULD offer configuration parameters to limit the sources
   of incoming connections through validation and use of the digital
   certificates presented to create a TLS connection.  They SHOULD
   also limit the number of accepted connections and limit the period
   of time during which an idle connection will be left open.

   Authentication for DHCPv6 messages [RFC3315] MUST NOT be used to
   attempt to secure transmission of the messages described in this
   document.  If authentication is desired, secure mode using TLS
   SHOULD be employed as described in Sections 8.2 and 9.1 of
   [RFC7653]


> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> - 6.1.3: I'm confused by the procedure for checking
> OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION in the CONNECTREPLY message. The secondary
> already checked that it supported the version in the CONNECT message; why
> does the primary need to check it again? Is it expected that the
> secondary might choose to send a different version in the CONNECTREPLY
> than it received in CONNECT? Is it possible that the partners use
> different protocol versions at the same time?
> 
> 

  The intent here is that each server tells the other server what
  protocol version that it will be sending, and also has the
  opportunity to accept or reject the version that that other server
  is sending.  As noted in Section 5.5.14, there is a major/minor
  component to the protocol version.  Each server is expected to have
  a range of acceptable major (and, possibly, minor) versions on
  reception.  So, each server gets to see what the other server will
  be sending and accept or reject the connection based on that
  information.  The secondary accepts or rejects that primary's
  version, and the primary gets to do the same with the secondary.

  So, yes, they might send different versions to each other.  Future
  revisions of this document will define interoperability requirements
  when new versions are created, the details can't be known at this
  point.  We just want to create a way to at least communicate the
  information from the outset.

  I will add this Section 6.1.1 (for the primary sending CONNECT):

   o  OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION containing the protocol version
      that the primary server will use when sending failover messages.

  and this to Section 6.1.2 (for the secondary sending CONNECTREPLY):

   o  OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION containing the protocol version being
      used by the secondary server when sending failover messages.

  and this to Section 6.1.3 (primary receiving the CONNECTREPLY):

   o  OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION - The primary server decides if the
      protocol version in use by the secondary server is supported by
      the primary server.  If it is not, send a DISCONNECT message and
      drop the connection.  If it is supported, continue processing.
      It is possible that the primary and secondary server will each
      be sending different version of the protocol to the other
      server.  The extent to which this is supported will be in part
      defined by as yet unknown differences in the protocols that the
      versions represent, and in part by the capabilities of the two
      implementations involved in the failover relationship.

Again, thanks for the review.

Kim








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From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
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Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] [Int-dir] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-02
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-dir] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-02
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Hi Jouni,
  Thanks for the review.=20

> On Jan 27, 2017, at 3:20 PM, jouni.nospam <jouni.nospam@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:58 PM, jouni.nospam <jouni.nospam@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>> No. But in this case there are pieces of text that change specific =
places in the original document from SHOULDs to MUSTs, musts to MUSTs, =
and adds few pieces of new stuff, etc. Now how that in not updating? =
Changes or =E2=80=9Cextensions=E2=80=9D like that would be nice to =
follow from the base document.
>>=20
>> Okay, I see your point.   But suppose the document were changed so =
that rather than "updating" the document as you suggest, it simply =
referenced the sections in question and then made the SHOULDs into MUSTs =
that way?   Wouldn't that mean "implementations of this extension MUST," =
and wouldn't that be perfectly reasonable?
>>=20
>=20
> I would still argue that it updates specifically if the document here =
is going to be standards track. If this document here would be more of a =
recommendation e.g., BCP I would be fine without the =E2=80=9Cupdating=E2=80=
=9D part (as I remember the MUST for IPsec in RFC3315bis was not =
endorsed by the WG).

I think the other two items in your review need to be fixed. But I have =
a slightly different take on this specific issue. In my view this =
document needs to stay on Standards track, and it should be made clear =
that it is an (optional) extension to RFC3315. This allows people who =
have implemented encryption for server-relay communications to claim =
compliance to RFC3315 and this document. For RFC3315bis, I think it =
should be discussed in the WG whether to mandate encryption or not as =
there are backward compatibility related considerations to be made.

Regards
Suresh


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From nobody Wed Feb  1 17:33:48 2017
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Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


- I support Ben's discuss about "secure mode" - a few
more details are needed, in particular how a pair
decide to use/not-use TLS - are there different ports
or a STARTTLS equivalent - I can't see that defined
here. (Is it inherited from RFC7653? If so, maybe you
need to say?)

- For the DNS update stuff - is there no need to use
TSIG secrets? If there is, how is that sync'd between
the pair of DHCP servers?  If it is sync'd then don't
you need to say that TLS is a MUST for such
connections? If there is no support for TSIG, is that
likely to work?



From nobody Wed Feb  1 18:27:16 2017
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi, thanks for the response.  Please see inline:
Thanks!

Ben.

On 1 Feb 2017, at 10:28, kkinnear wrote:

[...]

>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> DISCUSS:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I think the security considerations need some elaboration. The draft 
>> says
>> "When operating in secure mode...", but it doesn't discuss when one 
>> might
>> want to run in secure more vs non-secure mode. It would be helpful to
>> discuss actual threats. You mention TCP DoS attacks, but, for 
>> example,
>> can an eavesdropper learn sensitive or private information? Is there 
>> a
>> risk of someone impersonating a partner? Tampering with messages on 
>> the
>> network?
>>
>> There's a mention of using TLS certs for 
>> authentication/authorization,
>> but I think there's more to be said there. Is there any 
>> authentication or
>> authorization if you aren't using secure mode? How do you match a TLS
>> certificate to the partner name?
>>
>> The section opens saying that the security considerations from 3315 
>> and
>> 3633 apply, but I doubt either of those contemplated that you would 
>> be
>> sending DHCP messages over TCP connections between partner servers.
>
>   While I could try to answer your questions directly, it seemed like
>   offering an augmented Security Considerations section might be more
>   useful.  This takes into account both your comments and Kathleen
>   Moriarty's comments as well:
>
>
>    DHCPv6 failover is an extension of a standard DHCPv6 protocol, so
>    all security considerations from [RFC3315], Section 23 and
>    [RFC3633], Section 15 related to the server apply.
>
>    The use of TCP introduces some additional concerns.  Attacks that
>    attempt to exhaust the DHCP server's available TCP connection
>    resources can compromise the ability of legitimate partners to
>    receive service.  Malicious requestors who succeed in establishing
>    connections but who then send invalid messages, partial messages,
>    or no messages at all can also exhaust a server's pool of available
>    connections.
>
>    DHCPv6 failover can operate in secure or insecure mode.  Secure
>    mode (using TLS) would be indicated when the TCP connection between
>    failover partners is open to external monitoring or interception.
>    Insecure mode should only be used when the TCP connection between
>    failover partners remains within set of protected systems.  Details
>    of such protections are beyond the scope of this document.
>
>    The threats created by using failover directly mirror those from
>    using DHCPv6 itself: information leakage through monitoring, and
>    disruption of address assignment and configuration.  Monitoring the
>    failover TCP connection provides no additional data beyond that
>    available from monitoring the interactions between DHCPv6 clients
>    and the DHCPv6 server.  Likewise, manipulating the data flow
>    between failover servers provides no additional opportunities to
>    disrupt address assignment and configuration beyond that provided
>    by acting as a counterfeit DHCP server.  Protection from both
>    threats is easier than with basic DHCPv6, as only a single TCP
>    connection needs to be protected.  Either use secure mode to
>    protect that TCP connection or ensure that it can only exist with a
>    set of protected systems.
>
>    When operating in secure mode, TLS [RFC5246] is used to secure the
>    connection.  The recommendations in [RFC7525] SHOULD be followed
>    when negotiating a TLS connection.
>
>    Servers SHOULD offer configuration parameters to limit the sources
>    of incoming connections through validation and use of the digital
>    certificates presented to create a TLS connection.  They SHOULD
>    also limit the number of accepted connections and limit the period
>    of time during which an idle connection will be left open.
>
>    Authentication for DHCPv6 messages [RFC3315] MUST NOT be used to
>    attempt to secure transmission of the messages described in this
>    document.  If authentication is desired, secure mode using TLS
>    SHOULD be employed as described in Sections 8.2 and 9.1 of
>    [RFC7653]

Thanks, that's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for. I will clear 
my discussion with the assumption that text will go into the draft.



>
>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> - 6.1.3: I'm confused by the procedure for checking
>> OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION in the CONNECTREPLY message. The secondary
>> already checked that it supported the version in the CONNECT message; 
>> why
>> does the primary need to check it again? Is it expected that the
>> secondary might choose to send a different version in the 
>> CONNECTREPLY
>> than it received in CONNECT? Is it possible that the partners use
>> different protocol versions at the same time?
>>
>>
>
>   The intent here is that each server tells the other server what
>   protocol version that it will be sending, and also has the
>   opportunity to accept or reject the version that that other server
>   is sending.  As noted in Section 5.5.14, there is a major/minor
>   component to the protocol version.  Each server is expected to have
>   a range of acceptable major (and, possibly, minor) versions on
>   reception.  So, each server gets to see what the other server will
>   be sending and accept or reject the connection based on that
>   information.  The secondary accepts or rejects that primary's
>   version, and the primary gets to do the same with the secondary.
>
>   So, yes, they might send different versions to each other.  Future
>   revisions of this document will define interoperability requirements
>   when new versions are created, the details can't be known at this
>   point.  We just want to create a way to at least communicate the
>   information from the outset.
>
>   I will add this Section 6.1.1 (for the primary sending CONNECT):
>
>    o  OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION containing the protocol version
>       that the primary server will use when sending failover messages.
>
>   and this to Section 6.1.2 (for the secondary sending CONNECTREPLY):
>
>    o  OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION containing the protocol version being
>       used by the secondary server when sending failover messages.
>
>   and this to Section 6.1.3 (primary receiving the CONNECTREPLY):
>
>    o  OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION - The primary server decides if the
>       protocol version in use by the secondary server is supported by
>       the primary server.  If it is not, send a DISCONNECT message and
>       drop the connection.  If it is supported, continue processing.
>       It is possible that the primary and secondary server will each
>       be sending different version of the protocol to the other
>       server.  The extent to which this is supported will be in part
>       defined by as yet unknown differences in the protocols that the
>       versions represent, and in part by the capabilities of the two
>       implementations involved in the failover relationship.
>

That helps, thanks!


From nobody Wed Feb  1 18:28:26 2017
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Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS comment. I am clearing now under the
assumption the proposed text will make it into the draft.



From nobody Wed Feb  1 22:42:33 2017
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From: Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
To: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05
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Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 06:42:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05
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From nobody Thu Feb  2 06:44:16 2017
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Subject: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection

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email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A few questions that are not fully clear to me and maybe need some
additional explanation in the draft (or maybe it's just me...):

- It's not fully clear to me when a TCP connection is opened or closed.
Are the two servers supposed to have one long-lived connection? And if
that connection is terminated for any reason, should the primary server
try to re-open immediately? And if a (new) connection is (re-)open do I
always need to send a CONNECT first, or only if I didn't have any
connection with this server before? And if the secondary server goes down
and comes up in RECOVER state (sec 8.5.1.), should it open a TCP
connection to the primary server, or will always the primary server be
the one that opens the connection (and if so when will it do it)?

- Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  is
needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess you would
want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all message
have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate that. And is
that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the receiver-side
server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the sending
side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What will be
different if the sender knows in advance when it could potentially happen
(but also might not if the other end processes the messages quickly and
there is no excessive loss).



From nobody Thu Feb  2 07:26:05 2017
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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 23:25:21 +0800
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To: Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05
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--94eb2c19018e6fc61805478dc8b4
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Hi Roni,

Thank you for comments, we'll add the changes to the document in our next
updated version.
Please see inline.

Cheers,
Tianxiang

2017-02-02 14:42 GMT+08:00 Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I will leave only the items that needed my response
>
>
>
> 7.      In section 3.4 =E2=80=9CIf the client decided to use  the prefix =
provided
> by the server despite being longer than the  prefix-length hint=E2=80=9D =
yet I
> did not see in section 3.2 that the server can provide a longer
> prefix.
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang] This was mentioned in the last sentence of section 3.2:
>
>
>
> "If the requested prefix is not available in the server's prefix pool, an=
d
> the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD option,
> then the server SHOULD try to provide a prefix matching the prefix-length
> value, or the prefix with the shortest length possible which is closest t=
o
> the prefix-length hint value."
>
> *[Roni Even] I understood from 3.2 that it should provide a shorter lengt=
h
> prefix  closer to the request maybe =E2=80=9C*or the prefix with the clos=
est
> possible length to the prefix-length hint value=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> [Tianxiang2] The original sentence was a bit confusing, perhaps we could
> change it like this:
>
>
>
> OLD: "If the requested prefix is not available in the server's prefix
> pool, and the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD
> option, then the server SHOULD try to provide a prefix matching the
> prefix-length value, or the prefix with the shortest length possible whic=
h
> is closest to the prefix-length hint value."
>
>
>
> NEW:"If the requested prefix is not available in the server's prefix pool=
,
> and the client also included a prefix-length hint in the same IA_PD optio=
n,
> then the server SHOULD provide a prefix matching the prefix-length hint, =
or
> a prefix which is length is shorter and as close as possible to the
> prefix-length hint. If the server could not provide a prefix which length
> is shorter or equal to the prefix-length hint, the server SHOULD provide
> the prefix which length is longer and as close as possible to the
> prefix-length hint."
>
>
>
> *[Roni Even] I have no problem with this text since it will also work wit=
h
> the rest of the document but is it what was really meant*
>
>
>
[Tianxiang3] This was the intended meaning of the original sentence, if the
server could not honor the hint, it should provide a prefix closest to the
hint, the client could then decide whether to accept or neglect this prefix=
.


> *Also a nit*
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9Cor a prefix which is length is shorter and as close as possible =
to the
> prefix-length hint. If the server could not provide a prefix which length
> is shorter or equal to the prefix-length hint, the server SHOULD provide
> the prefix which length is longer and as close as possible to the
> prefix-length hint=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> to
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9Cor a prefix whose length is shorter and as close as possible to =
the
> prefix-length hint. If the server could not provide a prefix with a short=
er
> or equal length  to the prefix-length hint, the server SHOULD provide a
> prefix whose length is longer and as close as possible to the prefix-leng=
th
> hint=E2=80=9D
>

[Tianxiang3] Thanks for the suggestion, we will edit this sentence
accordingly.

>
>
>
>
> Nits/editorial comments:
>
>
>
>
>

--94eb2c19018e6fc61805478dc8b4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roni,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for comments, we&#39=
;ll add the changes to the document in our next updated version.</div><div>=
Please see inline.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tianxia=
ng</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-02-0=
2 14:42 GMT+08:00 Roni Even <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roni.ev=
en@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">roni.even@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_5663720217037483393m_3777587516231959433WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I will leave only the ite=
ms that needed my response<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div><span>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">7.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In section 3.4 =E2=80=9CIf th=
e client decided to use=C2=A0 the prefix provided<br>
by the server despite being longer than the=C2=A0 prefix-length hint=E2=80=
=9D yet I<br>
did not see in section 3.2 that the server can provide a longer<br>
prefix.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang] This was mentioned in the last sentence =
of section 3.2:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&quot;If the requested prefix is not available in th=
e server&#39;s prefix pool, and the client also included a prefix-length hi=
nt in the same IA_PD option, then the server SHOULD try to
 provide a prefix matching the prefix-length value, or the prefix with the =
shortest length possible which is closest to the prefix-length hint value.&=
quot;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Roni Even] I under=
stood from 3.2 that it should provide a shorter length prefix =C2=A0closer =
to
 the request maybe =E2=80=9C</span></i></b>or the prefix with the closest p=
ossible length to the prefix-length hint value=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Tianxiang2] The original sentence was a bit confusi=
ng, perhaps we could change it like this:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD:=C2=A0&quot;If the requested prefix is not avail=
able in the server&#39;s prefix pool, and the client also included a prefix=
-length hint in the same IA_PD option, then the server SHOULD try to provid=
e a prefix matching the prefix-length value, or
 the prefix with the shortest length possible which is closest to the prefi=
x-length hint value.&quot;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW:&quot;If the requested prefix is not available i=
n the server&#39;s prefix pool, and the client also included a prefix-lengt=
h hint in the same IA_PD option, then the server SHOULD provide a prefix ma=
tching the prefix-length hint, or a prefix
 which is length is shorter and as close as possible to the prefix-length h=
int. If the server could not provide a prefix which length is shorter or eq=
ual to the prefix-length hint, the server SHOULD provide the prefix which l=
ength is longer and as close as
 possible to the prefix-length hint.&quot;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></i></b></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Roni Even] =
I have no problem with this text since it will also work with the rest of t=
he document but is it what was really meant<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0</span=
></i></b></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>[T=
ianxiang3] This was the intended meaning of the original sentence, if the s=
erver could not honor the hint, it should provide a prefix closest to the h=
int, the client could then decide whether to accept or neglect this prefix.=
</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" l=
ink=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_5663720217037483393m_37775875=
16231959433WordSection1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1=
.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Also a nit<u></u><u=
></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9Cor a prefix which is length is shorter and =
as close as possible to the prefix-length hint. If the server could not pro=
vide a prefix which length is shorter or equal to the prefix-length hint, t=
he server SHOULD provide the prefix which
 length is longer and as close as possible to the prefix-length hint=E2=80=
=9D<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">to<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9Cor a prefix whose length is shorter and as =
close as possible to the prefix-length hint. If the server could not provid=
e a prefix with a shorter or equal length =C2=A0to the prefix-length hint, =
the server SHOULD provide a prefix whose length
 is longer and as close as possible to the prefix-length hint=E2=80=9D</p><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[=
Tianxiang3] Thanks for the suggestion, we will edit this sentence according=
ly.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"b=
lue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_5663720217037483393m_3777587516231959=
433WordSection1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;pad=
ding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;pad=
ding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div s=
tyle=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"=
><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-r=
ight:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
Nits/editorial comments:<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--94eb2c19018e6fc61805478dc8b4--


From nobody Thu Feb  2 07:28:23 2017
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From: kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>
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To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with COMMENT)
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Stephen,

Thanks for your review!

I've responded to your comments, indented, below...

> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Stephen Farrell =
<stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
>=20
> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection
>=20
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>=20
>=20
> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>=20
>=20
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
> - I support Ben's discuss about "secure mode" - a few
> more details are needed, in particular how a pair
> decide to use/not-use TLS - are there different ports
> or a STARTTLS equivalent - I can't see that defined
> here. (Is it inherited from RFC7653? If so, maybe you
> need to say?)


	Yes, Section 9.1 of RFC 7653 discusses exactly this issue (in
	part due to your review comments from July 2015, as it
	happens).  I believe the discussion there is sufficient.

	I substantially enhanced the Security Considerations section
	as a result of Ben Campbell's comments.  One paragraph that I
	added discussed secure and insecure mode.  I will expand that
	paragraph to point in more detail towards RFC 7653 as follows:


  "DHCPv6 failover can operate in secure or insecure mode.  Secure
  mode (using TLS) would be indicated when the TCP connection between
  failover partners is open to external monitoring or interception.
  Insecure mode should only be used when the TCP connection between
  failover partners remains within set of protected systems.  Details
  of such protections are beyond the scope of this document.  Failover
  servers MUST use the approach documented in Section 9.1 of [RFC7653]
  to decide to use or not to use TLS."


>=20
> - For the DNS update stuff - is there no need to use
> TSIG secrets? If there is, how is that sync'd between
> the pair of DHCP servers?  If it is sync'd then don't
> you need to say that TLS is a MUST for such
> connections? If there is no support for TSIG, is that
> likely to work?
>=20
>=20

	Surely, TSIG is important.  Each DHCP server in a failover
	pair has its own relationship with the relevant DNS servers,
	and needs to be configured with the correct TSIG secrets to
	update those DNS servers.  The configuration of a DHCP server
	to communicate with a DNS server is a configuration issue, and
	outside of the scope of the failover protocol. =20

	In the (now blessedly distant) past, we spent years working on
	the DHCPv4 failover protocol trying to shoehorn configuration
	information into the protocol, and it never worked.  DHCP
	servers need *lots* of configuration, and we have most
	consciously decided that synchronizing that configuration
	between failover partners is not the purpose of the DHCPv6
	failover protocol.

Thanks again for your review!

Kim













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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Kim,

On 02/02/17 15:28, kkinnear wrote:
> 	In the (now blessedly distant) past, we spent years working on
> 	the DHCPv4 failover protocol trying to shoehorn configuration
> 	information into the protocol, and it never worked.  DHCP
> 	servers need *lots* of configuration, and we have most
> 	consciously decided that synchronizing that configuration
> 	between failover partners is not the purpose of the DHCPv6
> 	failover protocol.

Thanks - that'd have helped me as a reader but if implementers
would know it for sure, then I guess it's fine as-is.

Thanks,
S.


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--------------ms070607020000020900010208--


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From: kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Mirja,

Thanks for your review.

I'll respond to your questions directly, indented, below...

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> =
wrote:
>=20
> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection
>=20
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>=20
>=20
> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>=20
>=20
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
> A few questions that are not fully clear to me and maybe need some
> additional explanation in the draft (or maybe it's just me...):
>=20
> - It's not fully clear to me when a TCP connection is opened or =
closed.
> Are the two servers supposed to have one long-lived connection? And if
> that connection is terminated for any reason, should the primary =
server
> try to re-open immediately? And if a (new) connection is (re-)open do =
I
> always need to send a CONNECT first, or only if I didn't have any
> connection with this server before? And if the secondary server goes =
down
> and comes up in RECOVER state (sec 8.5.1.), should it open a TCP
> connection to the primary server, or will always the primary server be
> the one that opens the connection (and if so when will it do it)?


	I would have thought that this was spelled out, but as I look
	at the draft I see that it isn't all that explicit.  While I
	could answer your questions directly, let me instead offer a
	new paragraph which tries to answer these questions for not
	just you but other readers of the document:


6.  Connection Management

   Communication between failover partners takes place over a
   long-lived TCP connection.  This connection is always initiated by
   the primary server, and if the long-lived connection is lost it is
   the responsibility of the primary server to attempt to reconnect to
   the secondary server.  The detailed process used by the primary
   server when initiating a connection and by the secondary server
   when responding to a connection attempt documented in
   Section 6.1 is followed each time a connection is established,
   regardless of any previous connection between the failover
   partners.

6.1.  Creating Connections


>=20
> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  is
> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess you =
would
> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all =
message
> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate that. And =
is
> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the sending
> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What will be
> different if the sender knows in advance when it could potentially =
happen
> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages quickly =
and
> there is no excessive loss).
>=20


	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
	designed to help that be true.

	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.

	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
	the application-level flow control of the
	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.


Thanks again for your review!

Kim






From nobody Thu Feb  2 09:08:06 2017
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Hi Kim,

thanks for your reply. See below.

> Am 02.02.2017 um 17:25 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>=20
> Mirja,
>=20
> Thanks for your review.
>=20
> I'll respond to your questions directly, indented, below...
>=20
>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection
>>=20
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>=20
>>=20
>> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>=20
>>=20
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>=20
>> A few questions that are not fully clear to me and maybe need some
>> additional explanation in the draft (or maybe it's just me...):
>>=20
>> - It's not fully clear to me when a TCP connection is opened or =
closed.
>> Are the two servers supposed to have one long-lived connection? And =
if
>> that connection is terminated for any reason, should the primary =
server
>> try to re-open immediately? And if a (new) connection is (re-)open do =
I
>> always need to send a CONNECT first, or only if I didn't have any
>> connection with this server before? And if the secondary server goes =
down
>> and comes up in RECOVER state (sec 8.5.1.), should it open a TCP
>> connection to the primary server, or will always the primary server =
be
>> the one that opens the connection (and if so when will it do it)?
>=20
>=20
> 	I would have thought that this was spelled out, but as I look
> 	at the draft I see that it isn't all that explicit.  While I
> 	could answer your questions directly, let me instead offer a
> 	new paragraph which tries to answer these questions for not
> 	just you but other readers of the document:
>=20
>=20
> 6.  Connection Management
>=20
>   Communication between failover partners takes place over a
>   long-lived TCP connection.  This connection is always initiated by
>   the primary server, and if the long-lived connection is lost it is
>   the responsibility of the primary server to attempt to reconnect to
>   the secondary server.  The detailed process used by the primary
>   server when initiating a connection and by the secondary server
>   when responding to a connection attempt documented in
>   Section 6.1 is followed each time a connection is established,
>   regardless of any previous connection between the failover
>   partners.
>=20
Thanks, that=E2=80=99s great!


> 6.1.  Creating Connections
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  is
>> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess you =
would
>> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all =
message
>> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate that. =
And is
>> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
>> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the sending
>> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What will be
>> different if the sender knows in advance when it could potentially =
happen
>> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages quickly =
and
>> there is no excessive loss).
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> 	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
> 	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
> 	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
> 	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
> 	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
> 	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
> 	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
> 	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
> 	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
> 	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
> 	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
> 	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
> 	designed to help that be true.

So you mean this is purely an application parameter saying I will not =
process more than X messages at once (before sending out a BNDREPLY). So =
this is rather independent of any socket buffer configuration, expect =
that the buffer needs to be large enough to at least handle X (max-size) =
messages which maybe is a good thing to notice as well.

However, this basically means that you at sender-side anyway need a way =
to cache BNDUPD message that you are not allowed to send out yet. Why =
don=E2=80=99t you just basically set this value implicitly always to 1 =
and say you can=E2=80=99t send another BNDUPD if an BNDREPLY is still =
outstanding=E2=80=A6? I would guess it=E2=80=99s anyway rather unlikely =
that you need to send more than one message at once, no?

>=20
> 	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
> 	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
> 	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
> 	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
> 	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.
>=20
> 	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
> 	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
> 	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
> 	the application-level flow control of the
> 	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.

I would actually say that the overhead is rather low. Maybe one should =
discuss this option at least as one potential implementation =
possibility. The only hard requirement is that the receiver side would =
be able to process message coming from different connections from the =
same endpoint, which I assume would be easy given you anyway have to =
handle different connections from different endpoints, no?

Thanks!
Mirja

>=20
>=20
> Thanks again for your review!
>=20
> Kim
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


From nobody Thu Feb  2 09:43:56 2017
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Mirja,

More comments, below...


> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>=20
> [... removed already handled issue -- Kim]
>=20
>> 6.1.  Creating Connections
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  is
>>> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess you =
would
>>> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all =
message
>>> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate that. =
And is
>>> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
>>> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the =
sending
>>> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What will =
be
>>> different if the sender knows in advance when it could potentially =
happen
>>> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages quickly =
and
>>> there is no excessive loss).
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> 	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
>> 	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
>> 	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
>> 	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
>> 	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
>> 	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
>> 	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
>> 	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
>> 	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
>> 	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
>> 	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
>> 	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
>> 	designed to help that be true.
>=20
> So you mean this is purely an application parameter saying I will not =
process more than X messages at once (before sending out a BNDREPLY). So =
this is rather independent of any socket buffer configuration, expect =
that the buffer needs to be large enough to at least handle X (max-size) =
messages which maybe is a good thing to notice as well.

	This is an application parameter saying that I can accept up
	to X messages at once without blocking the TCP connection.
	That isn't in conflict with what you said, but is focused a
	bit differently.  It is independent of any socket buffer
	configuration -- this is application level flow control.

>=20
> However, this basically means that you at sender-side anyway need a =
way to cache BNDUPD message that you are not allowed to send out yet. =
Why don=E2=80=99t you just basically set this value implicitly always to =
1 and say you can=E2=80=99t send another BNDUPD if an BNDREPLY is still =
outstanding=E2=80=A6? I would guess it=E2=80=99s anyway rather unlikely =
that you need to send more than one message at once, no?

	Servers frequently need send far more than one BNDUPD at once.
	The most extreme typical case is when one server is updating a
	partner which has been down with information about what has
	been happening while the partner was down.  This will generate
	thousands to tens of thousands of BNDUPD's.  When one server
	has lost its stable storage completely and needs to
	essentially be initialized by the other server, millions of
	BNDUPD's may need to flow across the link.

	Doing them one at a time, while technically correct, typically
	leaves a lot of performance on the table and could easily
	extend the time before the servers synchronize from seconds to
	tens of minutes (and possibly hours).  Many DHCP servers are
	multi-threaded and can process multiple BNDUPD's at the same
	time (though they may batch up the writes to the disk).  Thus,
	we would expect that most servers implementing this protocol
	would set this value to something substantial.

>=20
>>=20
>> 	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
>> 	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
>> 	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
>> 	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
>> 	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.
>>=20
>> 	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
>> 	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
>> 	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
>> 	the application-level flow control of the
>> 	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.
>=20
> I would actually say that the overhead is rather low. Maybe one should =
discuss this option at least as one potential implementation =
possibility. The only hard requirement is that the receiver side would =
be able to process message coming from different connections from the =
same endpoint, which I assume would be easy given you anyway have to =
handle different connections from different endpoints, no?

	Having different implementation possibilities in something as
	basic as connection management in a protocol already this
	complex is something we have tried hard to avoid, and we could
	only justify it if it were necessary to solve a very pressing
	problem.

Thanks -- Kim



From nobody Thu Feb  2 10:49:20 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : DHCPv6 Failover Protocol
        Authors         : Tomasz Mrugalski
                          Kim Kinnear
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05.txt
	Pages           : 94
	Date            : 2017-02-02

Abstract:
   DHCPv6 as defined in "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6
   (DHCPv6)" (RFC3315) does not offer server redundancy.  This document
   defines a protocol implementation to provide DHCPv6 failover, a
   mechanism for running two servers with the capability for either
   server to take over clients' leases in case of server failure or
   network partition.  It meets the requirements for DHCPv6 failover
   detailed in "DHCPv6 Failover Requirements" (RFC7031).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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To: dhc-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol@ietf.org, "<dhcwg@ietf.org>" <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] Comments on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04
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I have submitted a new version of the DHCPv6 Failover Protocol:

  draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05

=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/=
>

which reflects changes resulting from the IESG and directorate reviews
to date.  All of these changes are to explain things more clearly or
explicitly.  None of them alter the intended operation of the
protocol.

  * Added a sentence at the end of the Security Considerations
    section saying that if authentication of failover partners is
    desired, that TLS SHOULD be employed. [Kathleen Moriarty]

  * Significantly expanded the Security Considerations section to
    discuss some of the threats and when you might use secure and
    insecure mode.  [Ben Campbell]

  * Added clarification as to the use of the OPTION_F_PROTOCOL_VERSION
    option in the CONNECT and CONNECTREPLY message. [Ben Campbell]

  * Added information at the beginning of the Introduction
    describing the failover protocol and pointing to the DHCPv6
    Failover Requirements, RFC 7031. [Christer Holmberg]

  * Included a reference to RFC 3315 when the DHCPv6 server is first
    mentioned.  [Christer Holmberg]

  * Removed the term "DHCP service" from the Introduction as well
    as one other section of the draft, replacing it with "a service to
    DHCP clients". [Christer Holmberg]

  * Added text to the beginning of Section 4 Failover Concepts and
    Mechanisms, that clarifies that these concept and mechanisms are
    not present in RFC 3315, are required for failover, and are
    supported by the failover protocol. [Christer Holmberg]

  * Changed all instances of "this protocol" to be "the failover
    protocol".  [Christer Holmberg]

  * Added a pointer in the Security Considerations section to Section
    9.1 of RFC7653 which describes how two DHCPv6 servers can decide
    to use or not use TLS when connecting. [Stephen Farrell]

  * Added a paragraph in Section 6, Connection Management giving
    an overview of how connections are created and used by the
    failover protocol.  [Mirja Kuhlewind]

Regards -- Kim

=20
=20


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:07:28 -0500
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To: kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Kim,

Thanks for your response, inline.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:46 PM, kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com> wrote:
> Kathleen,
>
> Thanks for your comments.  My responses are indented below.
>
>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Kathleen Moriarty <Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection
>>
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>
>>
>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>
>>
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I have 2 questions that I would like to chat about and should be easy
>> enough to resolve.
>>
>> 1. I know we've discussed in the past why there is no MUST for TLS and it
>> having to do with DHCPv6 use on private networks or isolated.  Is there
>> text in one of the more recent RFCs that covers this explanation that can
>> be cited?  I'd like to make sure that's enough too.
>
>         To the best of my knowledge the justifications for both a secure
>         and an insecure mode have been kept out of the RFC's themselves,
>         and are scattered over a variety of issues raised for different
>         drafts.  A pretty succinct summary came from you for the DHCPv4
>         Active Leasequery draft (the bottom of this page):
>
>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7724/ballot/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7724/ballot/>
>
>         I can go back to the email surrounding the DHCPv6 Active Leasequery
>         draft and try to pull that together into something longer, but
>         essentially it is going to say pretty much what you have summarized
>         at the above URL.

Hmm, it's too bad nothing has been documented on this, can we fix that
for future draft references?

>>
>> 2. The Security Considerations section says not to use Authentication
>> from RFC3316.  SHould authentication instead be done within TLS or how
>> will the session be authenticated.  Did I miss something?  I'm not
>> finding the term authentication elsewhere in the draft and can infer
>> things, but wanted to make sure since nothing is stated explicitly.
>>
>
>         Interesting point.  Yes, if you care about authentication you
>         should use TLS.  And the discussion on authentication in TLS
>         is in Section 9.1 of the DHCPv6 Active Leasequery draft, RFC
>         7653.  That section is not otherwise referenced here in the
>         failover draft.  I will add the following to the end of the
>         Security Considerations section, immediately after:
>
>>>    Authentication for DHCPv6 messages [RFC3315 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3315>] MUST NOT be used to
>>>    attempt to secure transmission of the messages described in this
>>>    document.
>
>
>         "If authentication is desired, TLS SHOULD be employed
>         as described in Sections 8.2 and 9.1 of [RFC7653] <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7653#section-8.2>."

Thank you.
>
>         Thanks for catching this!
>
>         Regards -- Kim
>
>
>
>
>



-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen


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From: kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with COMMENT)
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Kathleen,

See my response below, inline...

> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Kathleen Moriarty =
<kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Kim,
>=20
> Thanks for your response, inline.
>=20
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:46 PM, kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com> wrote:
>> Kathleen,
>>=20
>> Thanks for your comments.  My responses are indented below.
>>=20
>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Kathleen Moriarty =
<Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for
>>> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection
>>>=20
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to =
all
>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> COMMENT:
>>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>=20
>>> I have 2 questions that I would like to chat about and should be =
easy
>>> enough to resolve.
>>>=20
>>> 1. I know we've discussed in the past why there is no MUST for TLS =
and it
>>> having to do with DHCPv6 use on private networks or isolated.  Is =
there
>>> text in one of the more recent RFCs that covers this explanation =
that can
>>> be cited?  I'd like to make sure that's enough too.
>>=20
>>        To the best of my knowledge the justifications for both a =
secure
>>        and an insecure mode have been kept out of the RFC's =
themselves,
>>        and are scattered over a variety of issues raised for =
different
>>        drafts.  A pretty succinct summary came from you for the =
DHCPv4
>>        Active Leasequery draft (the bottom of this page):
>>=20
>>        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7724/ballot/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7724/ballot/>
>>=20
>>        I can go back to the email surrounding the DHCPv6 Active =
Leasequery
>>        draft and try to pull that together into something longer, but
>>        essentially it is going to say pretty much what you have =
summarized
>>        at the above URL.
>=20
> Hmm, it's too bad nothing has been documented on this, can we fix that
> for future draft references?
>=20

	Subsequent to our discussion, I have added the following to
	the Security Considerations section at the behest of Ben
	Campbell:

   DHCPv6 failover can operate in secure or insecure mode.  Secure mode
   (using TLS) would be indicated when the TCP connection between
   failover partners is open to external monitoring or interception.
   Insecure mode should only be used when the TCP connection between
   failover partners remains within [a] set of protected systems.  =
Details
   of such protections are beyond the scope of this document.  Failover
   servers MUST use the approach documented in Section=C2=A09.1 of =
[RFC7653] <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7653#section-9.1>
   to decide to use or not to use TLS when connecting with the failover
   partner.

   The threats created by using failover directly mirror those from
   using DHCPv6 itself: information leakage through monitoring, and
   disruption of address assignment and configuration.  Monitoring the
   failover TCP connection provides no additional data beyond that
   available from monitoring the interactions between DHCPv6 clients and
   the DHCPv6 server.  Likewise, manipulating the data flow between
   failover servers provides no additional opportunities to disrupt
   address assignment and configuration beyond that provided by acting
   as a counterfeit DHCP server.  Protection from both threats is easier
   than with basic DHCPv6, as only a single TCP connection needs to be
   protected.  Either use secure mode to protect that TCP connection or
   ensure that it can only exist with a set of protected systems.

	I hope that helps.

	Here is the entire Security Considerations section in the
	-05 version of the draft (which is maybe 90 minutes old):

=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05#pag=
e-88 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05#pa=
ge-88>

	I also just noticed a typo in the first new paragraph which I
	will fix at the next opportunity.

	Thanks -- Kim









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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:41:37 -0500
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: (with COMMENT)
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On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:22 PM, kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com> wrote:
> Kathleen,
>
> See my response below, inline...
>
>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kim,
>>
>> Thanks for your response, inline.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:46 PM, kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com> wrote:
>>> Kathleen,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments.  My responses are indented below.
>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 2:14 PM, Kathleen Moriarty <Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for
>>>> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04: No Objection
>>>>
>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> COMMENT:
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> I have 2 questions that I would like to chat about and should be easy
>>>> enough to resolve.
>>>>
>>>> 1. I know we've discussed in the past why there is no MUST for TLS and it
>>>> having to do with DHCPv6 use on private networks or isolated.  Is there
>>>> text in one of the more recent RFCs that covers this explanation that can
>>>> be cited?  I'd like to make sure that's enough too.
>>>
>>>        To the best of my knowledge the justifications for both a secure
>>>        and an insecure mode have been kept out of the RFC's themselves,
>>>        and are scattered over a variety of issues raised for different
>>>        drafts.  A pretty succinct summary came from you for the DHCPv4
>>>        Active Leasequery draft (the bottom of this page):
>>>
>>>        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7724/ballot/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7724/ballot/>
>>>
>>>        I can go back to the email surrounding the DHCPv6 Active Leasequery
>>>        draft and try to pull that together into something longer, but
>>>        essentially it is going to say pretty much what you have summarized
>>>        at the above URL.
>>
>> Hmm, it's too bad nothing has been documented on this, can we fix that
>> for future draft references?
>>
>
>         Subsequent to our discussion, I have added the following to
>         the Security Considerations section at the behest of Ben
>         Campbell:
>
>    DHCPv6 failover can operate in secure or insecure mode.  Secure mode
>    (using TLS) would be indicated when the TCP connection between
>    failover partners is open to external monitoring or interception.
>    Insecure mode should only be used when the TCP connection between
>    failover partners remains within [a] set of protected systems.  Details
>    of such protections are beyond the scope of this document.  Failover
>    servers MUST use the approach documented in Section 9.1 of [RFC7653] <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7653#section-9.1>
>    to decide to use or not to use TLS when connecting with the failover
>    partner.
>
>    The threats created by using failover directly mirror those from
>    using DHCPv6 itself: information leakage through monitoring, and
>    disruption of address assignment and configuration.  Monitoring the
>    failover TCP connection provides no additional data beyond that
>    available from monitoring the interactions between DHCPv6 clients and
>    the DHCPv6 server.  Likewise, manipulating the data flow between
>    failover servers provides no additional opportunities to disrupt
>    address assignment and configuration beyond that provided by acting
>    as a counterfeit DHCP server.  Protection from both threats is easier
>    than with basic DHCPv6, as only a single TCP connection needs to be
>    protected.  Either use secure mode to protect that TCP connection or
>    ensure that it can only exist with a set of protected systems.
>
>         I hope that helps.

Yes, thank you.  This is very helpful and can be referenced in future drafts.

Best regards,
Kathleen

>
>         Here is the entire Security Considerations section in the
>         -05 version of the draft (which is maybe 90 minutes old):
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05#page-88 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-05#page-88>
>
>         I also just noticed a typo in the first new paragraph which I
>         will fix at the next opportunity.
>
>         Thanks -- Kim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen


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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-dir] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-02
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Suresh,

> On Feb 1, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Suresh Krishnan =
<suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Jouni,
>  Thanks for the review.=20
>=20
>> On Jan 27, 2017, at 3:20 PM, jouni.nospam <jouni.nospam@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:58 PM, jouni.nospam <jouni.nospam@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>>> No. But in this case there are pieces of text that change specific =
places in the original document from SHOULDs to MUSTs, musts to MUSTs, =
and adds few pieces of new stuff, etc. Now how that in not updating? =
Changes or =E2=80=9Cextensions=E2=80=9D like that would be nice to =
follow from the base document.
>>>=20
>>> Okay, I see your point.   But suppose the document were changed so =
that rather than "updating" the document as you suggest, it simply =
referenced the sections in question and then made the SHOULDs into MUSTs =
that way?   Wouldn't that mean "implementations of this extension MUST," =
and wouldn't that be perfectly reasonable?
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I would still argue that it updates specifically if the document here =
is going to be standards track. If this document here would be more of a =
recommendation e.g., BCP I would be fine without the =E2=80=9Cupdating=E2=80=
=9D part (as I remember the MUST for IPsec in RFC3315bis was not =
endorsed by the WG).
>=20
> I think the other two items in your review need to be fixed. But I =
have a slightly different take on this specific issue. In my view this =
document needs to stay on Standards track, and it should be made clear =
that it is an (optional) extension to RFC3315. This allows people who =
have implemented encryption for server-relay communications to claim =
compliance to RFC3315 and this document. For RFC3315bis, I think it =
should be discussed in the WG whether to mandate encryption or not as =
there are backward compatibility related considerations to be made.

I guess that works for me. In this case IMHO =
*-dhc-relay-server-security-* would be more of a profile for RFC3315 =
IPsec based security. I would find that useful.

Can you explain what is the real difference between extends vs. updates?

- Jouni

>=20
> Regards
> Suresh
>=20


From nobody Mon Feb  6 14:09:51 2017
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Tomek Mrugalski, a Chair of the dhc working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Dynamic Host Configuration
Area Name: Internet Area
Session Requester: Tomek Mrugalski

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: v6ops 6man softwire homenet
 Second Priority: dane sunset4 dnssd dnsop intarea



People who must be present:
  Suresh Krishnan
  Bernie Volz
  Tomek Mrugalski

Resources Requested:
  Meetecho support in room

Special Requests:
  We got Friday afternoon slot in Seoul. We&#39;d like to get a different one this time if possible.
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Tue Feb  7 07:45:36 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : Security of Messages Exchanged Between Servers and Relay Agents
        Authors         : Bernie Volz
                          Yogendra Pal
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2017-02-07

Abstract:
   The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv4 (DHCPv4) has no
   guidance for how to secure messages exchanged between servers and
   relay agents.  The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6
   (DHCPv6) states that IPsec should be used to secure messages
   exchanged between servers and relay agents, but does not require
   encryption.  And, with recent concerns about pervasive monitoring and
   other attacks, it is appropriate to require securing relay to relay
   and relay to server communication for DHCPv6 and relay to server
   communication for DHCPv4.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03.txt
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Hi:

This update is based on the Int-Dir review (https://www.ietf.org/iesg/direc=
torate/intarea.html)  and fixes a few nits and adjusts the text in section =
3 (first paragraphs).

For more details, see https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/m=
sg17859.html and the discussion related to this review.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ie=
tf.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 10:46 AM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : Security of Messages Exchanged Between Servers an=
d Relay Agents
        Authors         : Bernie Volz
                          Yogendra Pal
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2017-02-07

Abstract:
   The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv4 (DHCPv4) has no
   guidance for how to secure messages exchanged between servers and
   relay agents.  The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6
   (DHCPv6) states that IPsec should be used to secure messages
   exchanged between servers and relay agents, but does not require
   encryption.  And, with recent concerns about pervasive monitoring and
   other attacks, it is appropriate to require securing relay to relay
   and relay to server communication for DHCPv6 and relay to server
   communication for DHCPv4.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Reminder for IETF'98 (Chicago) DHC WG Session Agenda Requests
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Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:25:01 +0000
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Subject: [dhcwg] Reminder for IETF'98 (Chicago) DHC WG Session Agenda Requests
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Hi:

The current draft agenda is at https://github.com/dhcwg/wg/wiki/IETF-98-(Ch=
icago)-DHC-WG-Agenda.

Based on the current requests, Tomek and I decided on and submitted a reque=
st a 1 hour session for Chicago (IETF-98).

If there are additional requests for time, please let us know ASAP.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tomek Mrugalski
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 7:49 AM
To: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] Reminder for IETF'98 (Chicago) DHC WG Session Agenda Reque=
sts - by January 31, 2017!

Hi,

This is a remainder for people who would like to present in Chicago to subm=
it slot request. The meeting still 2 months away, so we don't expect the re=
quests to be super detailed. Nevertheless Bernie and I need it to assess ho=
w much time we need for the DHC meeting. This is not a bookkeeping exercise=
 only. We're supposed to justify any time we request. Given that Seoul meet=
ing took only 40 minutes and we have received only 2 slots (with one of the=
m being a recurring one - dhcpv6bis), we do not have enough presentations t=
o get a long slot.

In fact Bernie and I discussed whether we need to have a meeting in Chicago=
 at all. So far we're leaning towards requesting a very small slot (30 mins=
? 1h?), but we haven't made any decisions yet. This means that if you want =
to present something, but won't express your intent soon, you'll likely not=
 get a slot later.

Bernie & Tomek

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At Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:10:26 +0800,
Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:

> We have submitted a new version of secure DHCPv6. Thanks a lot for Bernie's
> valuable comment.

I apologize for having been inactive on this draft, especially despite
being listed as a coauthor.  I've finally found time to take a closer
look at it.  I see the 20 version has been improved a lot; it's much
more readable than (some of the) older versions and many of the
technical questions I raised before seem to be addressed.  I
personally think we still need to discuss and address some more
technical details, but IMO this version is now much closer to WGLC.

...with one big reservation: I'd very much like to see at least one
attempt of implementing the spec.  This is a quite complicated
protocol specification, and no matter how hard we review the paper
spec, I'm quite sure that an actual implementation attempt will find
many more unclear points or protocol defects.  Although I understand
that's not a requirement for a WGLC or even for an RFC (the spirit of
"believing in running code" has been the thing of past at the IETF,
sadly) but I still hope we won't end up shipping a protocol spec with
full of defects mainly because there is not even an attempt of
implementing it before publishing it.

Specific comments on the 20 version follow.  There is one thing that I
guess needs broader attention, so I'm noting it here: I think we need
more discussion on the meaning and justification of "Non-SigAlg" and
"Non-EncryAlg" (especially the latter).  See below for more details.

- general: it's still not clear to me how we use this mechanism for
  Reconfigure.

- Section 1

   [...]  Such communications are already protected using the
   mechanism described in section 21.1 in [RFC3315].

  Perhaps a better reference today would be
  draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security.

- Section 1

   [...] The
   Algorithm, Certificate, Signature, and Increasing-number options are
   used for authentication.  The Encryption-Query message, Encryption-
   Response message, Encrypted-message option and Encryption-Key-Tag
   option are used for encryption.

  I suspect this is not 100% accurate.  Except for the signature
  option, everything can also be used for (or related to) encryption.

- Section 5.3

   [...]  The same client and server SHOULD use the
   same algorithm in a single communication session.

  Shouldn't this be a MUST?  Especially now that the client and the
  server negotiate and fix a specific set of algorithms initially, I
  don't see any possibility for an exception to this requirement.

- Section 5.3

   The sender can
   offer a set of algorithms, and then the receiver selects one
   algorithm for the future communication.

  s/sender/client/ and s/receiver/server/.  Only the client offers an
  algorithm set using the algorithm option.

- Section 5.5: s/The One/One/

   The One feasible environment in
   an early deployment stage would be enterprise networks.

- Section 5.5

   In
   enterprise networks, the client is manually pre-configured with the
   trusted servers' public key and the server is also manually pre-
   configured with the trusted clients' public keys.

  I suggest s/is (also) manually/can (also) be manually/ since manual
  configuration wouldn't be the absolute only option.

- Section 6

   And then the client first checks acknowledged hash, signature and
   encryption algorithms that the server supports.  If the hash
   algorithm field is zero, then it indicates that the hash algorithm is
   fixed according to the corresponding signature algorithm.  The client
   also uses the acknowledged algorithms in the return messages.

  It's not clear to me from this text how the client checks the
  algorithms.  By examining the certification option for the
  signature/encryption algorithms and examining the signature option
  for the hash ID?  If so, I think it should be clearly described.

  I'd note that the signature ID in the certificate must be equal to
  the signature ID of the signature option.  And, generalizing this,
  what if the client doesn't support these algorithms? (This shouldn't
  happen as long as the server handles the algorithm option correctly,
  so this is basically a bug of the server implementation).

  The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the
  signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.  So
  it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
  signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.

- Section 6: s/return/subsequent/

   [...] The client
   also uses the acknowledged algorithms in the return messages.

- Section 6

   The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the server, such as
   Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option, Signature
   option and Increasing-number option for client authentication.[...]
   [...]  One and only one Increasing-number option SHOULD be
   contained,

  Isn't there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?

- Section 6

   [...] In this document, it is assumed
   that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DHCPv6
   configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
   decryption.

  I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks about
  a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used:

   If the client tries more than one cert for client authentication, the
   server can easily get a client that implements this to enumerate its
   entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a client that way.

 Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?  If that's
 the only reason for this limitation, I think we should address the
 reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general specification
 more flexible.

- Section 7

   [...] If it is the target server, according to
   the Encryption-Key-Tag option, the server identifies the used public/
   private key pair and decrypts the Encrypted-message option using the
   corresponding private key.

  The key tag is not necessarily unique for different public keys (so
  different key pairs), even if it should normally be unique in
  practice.  If multiple public keys share the same tag value, the
  server MUST try all corresponding key pairs.

  Also, since the key tag option isn't covered by a signature, it may
  have been forged by an intermediate attacker.  We may want to
  describe what the server should do in such a case (just discarding
  it is probably okay as it's forged anyway, but the server could also
  try all possible keys just in case the key tag is the only forged
  field).

- Section 7

   The server validates the client's certificate through the local pre-
   configured trusted certificates list.

  I'm not sure if this paragraph covers the "opportunistic encryption"
  mode, i.e, when the server doesn't know the certificate but chooses
  to use it for encryption only.  (I'm assuming our intent is to
  support such mode, right?).

- Section 7

   To provide
   the replay protection, the Increasing-number option can be contained
   in the encrypted DHCPv6 message.

  Shouldn't this be either SHOULD or MUST to be consistent with other
  part of this spec?  (see also the possible SHOULD vs MUST conflict
  commented above).

- Section 9.1

   [...]  And the client can forget the increasing number
   information after the transaction is finished.  The client's initial
   locally stored increasing number is set to zero.

  I'm not sure if I understand it and I'm not sure if it's okay
  whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or always does?)
  reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it sends to the server
  at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?  Doesn't it lead to an
  easy replay attack?  Or is the assumption that the server first
  sends an error and the client will resend the message with an
  adjusted increasing number?

- Section 10.1.1

               The mandatory encryption
               algorithms MUST be included.

  Which algorithm is it?

- Section 10.1.2

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |      OPTION_CERTIFICATE       |         option-len            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |              EA-id            |            SA-id              |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                                                               |
   .                           Certificate                         .
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  This seems to assume a single certificate (which I assume means a
  single public key) can be used for both encryption and signature.
  Is my understanding correct?  If so, can we always assume that?

- Section 10.1.2

   It should be noticed that the scenario where the values of EA-id and
   SA-id are both 0 makes no sense and the client MUST discard a message
   with such values.

  The 0 EA-id/SA-id values are not described earlier in this
  document.  I think it should explicitly define its semantics before
  this text (perhaps in Section 10.1.1).

  And, from the description of Section 12:

         Non-SigAlg      |   0x00  | this document
           Non-EncryAlg  |   0x00  | this document

  I guess it means the signature is (effectively) not provided and the
  message is (effectively) not encrypted, respectively.  If my
  understanding is correct, is it okay to allow that, especially about
  encryption?  I vaguely recall a discussion about someone hoping to
  introduce a non-encryption mode, but I thought we rejected the idea
  because it would be against the "always encrypt" consensus.

- Section 10.1.5

   encryption key tag  A variable length field containing the encryption
      key tag sent from the client to server to identify the used
      public/private key pair.  The encryption key tag is calculated
      from the public key data, like fingerprint of a specific public
      key.  How to generate the encryption key tag adopts the method
      define in Appendix B in [RFC4034] and section 5.5 in [RFC6840].
      The data of the public key is used as input of the generation
      function.

  If we derive the tag calculation from RFC4034, the length is not
  variable: it's fixed to 16 bits.

  Also, I don't think we have to mention RFC6840 section 5.5.  We'd
  only use the method described in Appendix B of RFC4034 for
  algorithms other than type 1.

  And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don't think this
  description is enough to actually calculate the tag value for a
  given public key.  We should provide some more specific here.

- Section 11

   [RFC6273] has analyzed possible threats to the hash algorithms used
   in SEND.  Since Secure DHCPv6 defined in this document uses the same
   hash algorithms in similar way to SEND, analysis results could be
   applied as well: [...]

  Does this matter even when the hash value is in an encrypted
  message?

- Section 11

  I think we should also discuss a few more security issues in this
  section:
  - Since the algorithm option isn't protected by a signature, the
    list can be forged without detection, which can lead to a
    downgrade attack.
  - Likewise, since the Encryption-Key-Tag Option isn't protected, an
    attacker that can intercept the message can forge the value
    without detection (see also the relevant comment on Section 7).

- Section 12

   Hash Algorithm for Secure DHCPv6.  The values in this table are 8-bit
   unsigned integers.

  Shouldn't this be 16-bit?  It's defined as an 16-bit value for the
  HA-id field of various options.  Same for the signature algorithm
  and encryption algorithm.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>, Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 21:46:49 +0000
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Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.


From nobody Wed Feb  8 13:57:28 2017
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>, Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 21:57:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Dusan:

DECLINE is used after a REPLY, not after an ADVERTISE.

A client has not been assigned an address until it receives the REPLY (at w=
hich point it does DAD and may send a DECLINE).

There is no mechanism for a client to indicate to a server "I don't want yo=
ur Advertised address(es)", except by not proceeding to send a REQUEST.

The server may have held the address "reserved" for a short period of time,=
 but does that really matter? IPv6 addresses are not in short supply.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:47 PM
To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com=
>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


From nobody Wed Feb  8 14:19:29 2017
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Hi Bernie,

I am talking about DECLINE after REPLY. What I am  proposing is to use DECL=
INE for "I don't want your Advertised address(es)". I think this will be mu=
ch cleaner then to let the server timeout the advertised addresses, which c=
an take long.

Thanks,

Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B; Lishan Li
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Dusan:

DECLINE is used after a REPLY, not after an ADVERTISE.

A client has not been assigned an address until it receives the REPLY (at w=
hich point it does DAD and may send a DECLINE).

There is no mechanism for a client to indicate to a server "I don't want yo=
ur Advertised address(es)", except by not proceeding to send a REQUEST.

The server may have held the address "reserved" for a short period of time,=
 but does that really matter? IPv6 addresses are not in short supply.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:47 PM
To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com=
>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
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From nobody Wed Feb  8 14:28:34 2017
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgA==
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 22:28:29 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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I'm confused ... advertised vs assigned addresses. Once a Reply is received=
, the address is assigned -- no longer advertised.

DECLINE means that the address is in use. If the client DECLINEs it and jus=
t makes it available immediately, the next client to get that address assig=
ned and does DAD will also find a conflict ... so what=1B$B!G=1B(Bs the val=
ue of that.

Generally, declined addresses should not be used for a while (that is polic=
y dependent) since it means some other device is using the address.


I thought you were trying to say a Decline sent in response to an Advertise=
 would tell the server "I don't want those addresses". But that is not mean=
ingful and why would a client even try to do that. Also, an Advertise is ju=
st that -- and advertisement; it is not a commitment to assigned those addr=
esses -- the client can only use the addresses in the Reply. (DHCPv4 is a b=
it different in this respect -- the address in the Offer must be same as in=
 the Ack. DHCPv6 has no such hard requirement -- it usually is, but that's =
not required.)

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:19 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition


Hi Bernie,

I am talking about DECLINE after REPLY. What I am  proposing is to use DECL=
INE for "I don't want your Advertised address(es)". I think this will be mu=
ch cleaner then to let the server timeout the advertised addresses, which c=
an take long.

Thanks,

Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B; Lishan Li
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Dusan:

DECLINE is used after a REPLY, not after an ADVERTISE.

A client has not been assigned an address until it receives the REPLY (at w=
hich point it does DAD and may send a DECLINE).

There is no mechanism for a client to indicate to a server "I don't want yo=
ur Advertised address(es)", except by not proceeding to send a REQUEST.

The server may have held the address "reserved" for a short period of time,=
 but does that really matter? IPv6 addresses are not in short supply.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:47 PM
To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com=
>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.

_______________________________________________
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQ
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 22:37:55 +0000
Message-ID: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Understand the concern. The client should be able to DECLINE addresses in b=
oth ADVERTISE and REPLY. Receiving the REPLY does not mean that a unique ad=
dress must be assigned to the interface. If a client DECLINEs the ADVERTISE=
d or REPLIEd address, DHCPV6 server should be able to advertise another add=
ress.

The client should also be able to tell that is does not want another addres=
s. For example, if RENEW/REBIND returns a new address, the client should be=
 able to DECLINE it.

Regards,
Dusan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:28 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

I'm confused ... advertised vs assigned addresses. Once a Reply is received=
, the address is assigned -- no longer advertised.

DECLINE means that the address is in use. If the client DECLINEs it and jus=
t makes it available immediately, the next client to get that address assig=
ned and does DAD will also find a conflict ... so what=1B$B!G=1B(Bs the val=
ue of that.

Generally, declined addresses should not be used for a while (that is polic=
y dependent) since it means some other device is using the address.


I thought you were trying to say a Decline sent in response to an Advertise=
 would tell the server "I don't want those addresses". But that is not mean=
ingful and why would a client even try to do that. Also, an Advertise is ju=
st that -- and advertisement; it is not a commitment to assigned those addr=
esses -- the client can only use the addresses in the Reply. (DHCPv4 is a b=
it different in this respect -- the address in the Offer must be same as in=
 the Ack. DHCPv6 has no such hard requirement -- it usually is, but that's =
not required.)

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:19 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition


Hi Bernie,

I am talking about DECLINE after REPLY. What I am  proposing is to use DECL=
INE for "I don't want your Advertised address(es)". I think this will be mu=
ch cleaner then to let the server timeout the advertised addresses, which c=
an take long.

Thanks,

Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B; Lishan Li
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Dusan:

DECLINE is used after a REPLY, not after an ADVERTISE.

A client has not been assigned an address until it receives the REPLY (at w=
hich point it does DAD and may send a DECLINE).

There is no mechanism for a client to indicate to a server "I don't want yo=
ur Advertised address(es)", except by not proceeding to send a REQUEST.

The server may have held the address "reserved" for a short period of time,=
 but does that really matter? IPv6 addresses are not in short supply.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:47 PM
To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com=
>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman=
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeA=
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 22:51:54 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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No.

DECLINE means address is bad (duplicated). DECLINE is only valid after Repl=
y, not after Advertise.=20

RELEASE means client does not want to use the address provided.

I don't see any benefit to change this.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:38 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Understand the concern. The client should be able to DECLINE addresses in b=
oth ADVERTISE and REPLY. Receiving the REPLY does not mean that a unique ad=
dress must be assigned to the interface. If a client DECLINEs the ADVERTISE=
d or REPLIEd address, DHCPV6 server should be able to advertise another add=
ress.

The client should also be able to tell that is does not want another addres=
s. For example, if RENEW/REBIND returns a new address, the client should be=
 able to DECLINE it.

Regards,
Dusan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:28 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

I'm confused ... advertised vs assigned addresses. Once a Reply is received=
, the address is assigned -- no longer advertised.

DECLINE means that the address is in use. If the client DECLINEs it and jus=
t makes it available immediately, the next client to get that address assig=
ned and does DAD will also find a conflict ... so what=1B$B!G=1B(Bs the val=
ue of that.

Generally, declined addresses should not be used for a while (that is polic=
y dependent) since it means some other device is using the address.


I thought you were trying to say a Decline sent in response to an Advertise=
 would tell the server "I don't want those addresses". But that is not mean=
ingful and why would a client even try to do that. Also, an Advertise is ju=
st that -- and advertisement; it is not a commitment to assigned those addr=
esses -- the client can only use the addresses in the Reply. (DHCPv4 is a b=
it different in this respect -- the address in the Offer must be same as in=
 the Ack. DHCPv6 has no such hard requirement -- it usually is, but that's =
not required.)

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:19 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition


Hi Bernie,

I am talking about DECLINE after REPLY. What I am  proposing is to use DECL=
INE for "I don't want your Advertised address(es)". I think this will be mu=
ch cleaner then to let the server timeout the advertised addresses, which c=
an take long.

Thanks,

Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B; Lishan Li
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Dusan:

DECLINE is used after a REPLY, not after an ADVERTISE.

A client has not been assigned an address until it receives the REPLY (at w=
hich point it does DAD and may send a DECLINE).

There is no mechanism for a client to indicate to a server "I don't want yo=
ur Advertised address(es)", except by not proceeding to send a REQUEST.

The server may have held the address "reserved" for a short period of time,=
 but does that really matter? IPv6 addresses are not in short supply.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:47 PM
To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com=
>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman=
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcA==
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Hi Bernie,

I agree with the definition: " DECLINE means address is bad". What I am say=
ing is that "bad" does not only mean "duplicated". Applications and devices=
 can have other reasons to thing about the offered address to be "bad". If =
they find the address  is "bad" for any reason, they can send DECLINE. Even=
 the current DHCPv6 protocol does not prevent the DHCPv6 client to send DEC=
LINE for ADVERTISE and REPLY. It is the server that should use it efficient=
ly.

Regards,
Dusan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:52 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

No.

DECLINE means address is bad (duplicated). DECLINE is only valid after Repl=
y, not after Advertise.=20

RELEASE means client does not want to use the address provided.

I don't see any benefit to change this.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:38 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Understand the concern. The client should be able to DECLINE addresses in b=
oth ADVERTISE and REPLY. Receiving the REPLY does not mean that a unique ad=
dress must be assigned to the interface. If a client DECLINEs the ADVERTISE=
d or REPLIEd address, DHCPV6 server should be able to advertise another add=
ress.

The client should also be able to tell that is does not want another addres=
s. For example, if RENEW/REBIND returns a new address, the client should be=
 able to DECLINE it.

Regards,
Dusan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:28 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

I'm confused ... advertised vs assigned addresses. Once a Reply is received=
, the address is assigned -- no longer advertised.

DECLINE means that the address is in use. If the client DECLINEs it and jus=
t makes it available immediately, the next client to get that address assig=
ned and does DAD will also find a conflict ... so what=1B$B!G=1B(Bs the val=
ue of that.

Generally, declined addresses should not be used for a while (that is polic=
y dependent) since it means some other device is using the address.


I thought you were trying to say a Decline sent in response to an Advertise=
 would tell the server "I don't want those addresses". But that is not mean=
ingful and why would a client even try to do that. Also, an Advertise is ju=
st that -- and advertisement; it is not a commitment to assigned those addr=
esses -- the client can only use the addresses in the Reply. (DHCPv4 is a b=
it different in this respect -- the address in the Offer must be same as in=
 the Ack. DHCPv6 has no such hard requirement -- it usually is, but that's =
not required.)

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 5:19 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition


Hi Bernie,

I am talking about DECLINE after REPLY. What I am  proposing is to use DECL=
INE for "I don't want your Advertised address(es)". I think this will be mu=
ch cleaner then to let the server timeout the advertised addresses, which c=
an take long.

Thanks,

Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B; Lishan Li
Cc: dhcwg
Subject: RE: RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Dusan:

DECLINE is used after a REPLY, not after an ADVERTISE.

A client has not been assigned an address until it receives the REPLY (at w=
hich point it does DAD and may send a DECLINE).

There is no mechanism for a client to indicate to a server "I don't want yo=
ur Advertised address(es)", except by not proceeding to send a REQUEST.

The server may have held the address "reserved" for a short period of time,=
 but does that really matter? IPv6 addresses are not in short supply.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 4:47 PM
To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com=
>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Hi,

Can DECLINE definition be extended beyond the DAD usage? I think DECLINE sh=
ould be used every time DHCPV6 client decides not to assign the offered add=
ress, for any reason, not just the address is duplicate. When receiving DEC=
LINE, DHCPV6 server should be able to immediately make the same address ava=
ilable in the address pool for the other clients.

Regards,
Dusan.

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman=
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcAAClxKA
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 14:05:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcAAClxKAAAGY9gD///saAA==
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 14:34:09 +0000
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:55:38 -0500
In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 9, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> How can I contribute to RFC3315bis? What is the process?

The first step would be to figure out what you want, why you want it, =
and why anybody should care about it.   Then you explain that on the =
mailing list and see if you get some interest.

=46rom reading what you've said so far, what you want is the ability for =
a client to say it doesn't like a particular address, with the intended =
effect that if it asks for another address, it will get a _different_ =
address.   But your intended semantics are unclear, and I don't see how =
the server can usefully address this use case.   You'd need to explain =
that.


--Apple-Mail=_4051D8D9-7454-42DB-B138-57F32665FAA6
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">How can I contribute to RFC3315bis? What is the =
process?</span><br style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">The =
first step would be to figure out what you want, why you want it, and =
why anybody should care about it. &nbsp; Then you explain that on the =
mailing list and see if you get some interest.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=46rom reading what you've said so far, =
what you want is the ability for a client to say it doesn't like a =
particular address, with the intended effect that if it asks for another =
address, it will get a _different_ address. &nbsp; But your intended =
semantics are unclear, and I don't see how the server can usefully =
address this use case. &nbsp; You'd need to explain that.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Thu Feb  9 07:22:08 2017
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> That is the current use of DECLINE (only for DAD). =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3315#section-17.1.3 only focuses on the =
server selection after ADVERTISE is received. It does not mention that =
DHCPv6 client might not be happy with the advertised addresses. IPv6 =
defines different kinds of addresses and allows multiple addresses, =
making it more complex to handle. If a server offers IPv6 address that =
client cannot use (e.g. a multicast address, a second address), the =
client should be able to decline it.
>=20
> Again, if the server sends REPLY or REBIND with an address the client =
cannot use, the client should be able to DECLINE it.

The big problem I see here is that you are extending the "cannot use" =
problem from one where it applies to all clients (eg duplicate address) =
to one where **THIS** client cannot use for some local (to the client) =
reason and which may well not apply to other clients. it's already been =
stated (AIUI) that there is no mechanism for the client to tell the =
server WHY it's declining, and hence any decline can only be processed =
as "this address is bad for all clients".

It might help if you gave an example of a setup where a sensibly =
configured server and client have this problem. You mention getting a =
multicast address, but (and bear in mind I'm barely at the "crawled of =
of the primordial ooze" level with DHCP6, so I don't know how the =
client/server differentiate between different types of addresses) surely =
if the client can't use a multicast address - why is it asking for one ? =
If the server is offering multicast addresses routinely, then why is it =
configured that way ?

If the client "just wants a different address" then surely the way to do =
that is simply solicit for a new lease, using a different identifier so =
the server will give it an additional address - and the client can =
simply stop using the old address and let it's lease lapse.

You've already been told that coming here and just saying "this is =
wrong" won't work.
You need to explain why it's wrong, why this is an issue for more than =
just yourself, and most importantly - why it's a big enough issue to =
justify changing the standards and imposing development load on all =
creators/vendors of DHCP6 server and client software to implement that =
change.
Part of the justification involves specific use cases - along the lines =
of "people who use X to do Y suffer issue Z". You have not done that so =
far.


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Hi Ted,

Let's start with the problem statements:

1.       When DHCPv6 client starts it sends SOLICIT with IA option (without=
 or with IPv6 address). The server sends ADVERTISE message offering IPv6 ad=
dress(es). If the server offers IPv6 address(es) that client cannot use (e.=
g. an address with wrong semantics, a multicast address, a reserved address=
, ... , a second address and the client can support only one address), the =
client should be able to respond to the server indicating which address it =
cannot use.

2.       After T1 the client needs to RENEW the address. If REPLY from the =
server has new IPv6 address(es) that client cannot use (e.g. a multicast ad=
dress, a reserved address, ... , a second address and the client can suppor=
t only one address), the client should be able to respond to the server ind=
icating which address it cannot use.

3.       After T2 the client needs to REBIND the address. If REBIND from th=
e server has new IPv6 address(es) that client cannot use (e.g. a multicast =
address, a reserved address, ... , a second address and the client can supp=
ort only one address), the client should be able to respond to the server i=
ndicating which address it cannot use.

4.       If the client cannot use the offered address, it might be left in =
one of the two states:

a.       Without any IPv6 address, or

b.      Still has IPv6 address in preferred state

a)      The client does not have IPv6 address and needs immediately another=
 offer from the DHCPv6 server with a different address (e.g. a global, unre=
served address)

b)      With a valid IPv6 address

a.       The client has IPv6 address it can use during the valid life time =
and needs another address from DHCPv6 server (e.g. with a different address=
 type) before the valid life time expires

b.      The client cannot handle the address change and does not need the n=
ew address from DHCPv6 server

c.       The client has IPv6 address it can use and does not need multiple =
addresses from DHCPv6 server

5.       DHCPv6 server should

a.       Offer a different address type, or

b.      Make the address available to other clients, or

c.       Block the address for further use (e.g. the address was invalid).

I propose that DECLINE should be defined as a response for the addresses th=
at cannot be assigned. There can be a reason code in DECLINE helping the se=
rver interpret the response.

Regards,
Dusan Mudric.


From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 9:56 AM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: Bernie Volz (volz); dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

On Feb 9, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<mailto=
:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:
How can I contribute to RFC3315bis? What is the process?

The first step would be to figure out what you want, why you want it, and w=
hy anybody should care about it.   Then you explain that on the mailing lis=
t and see if you get some interest.

>From reading what you've said so far, what you want is the ability for a cl=
ient to say it doesn't like a particular address, with the intended effect =
that if it asks for another address, it will get a _different_ address.   B=
ut your intended semantics are unclear, and I don't see how the server can =
usefully address this use case.   You'd need to explain that.


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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Ted,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Let&#8217;s start with th=
e problem statements:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">When DHCPv6 clien=
t starts it sends SOLICIT with IA option (without or with IPv6 address). Th=
e server sends ADVERTISE message offering IPv6 address(es).
 If the server offers IPv6 address(es) that client cannot use (e.g. an addr=
ess with wrong semantics, a multicast address, a reserved address, &#8230; =
, a second address and the client can support only one address), the client=
 should be able to respond to the server
 indicating which address it cannot use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">After T1 the clie=
nt needs to RENEW the address. If REPLY from the server has new IPv6 addres=
s(es) that client cannot use (e.g. a multicast address,
 a reserved address, &#8230; , a second address and the client can support =
only one address), the client should be able to respond to the server indic=
ating which address it cannot use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">After T2 the clie=
nt needs to REBIND the address. If REBIND from the server has new IPv6 addr=
ess(es) that client cannot use (e.g. a multicast address,
 a reserved address, &#8230; , a second address and the client can support =
only one address), the client should be able to respond to the server indic=
ating which address it cannot use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">4.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If the client can=
not use the offered address, it might be left in one of the two states:<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Without any IPv6 =
address, or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Still has IPv6 ad=
dress in preferred state<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">a)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The client does n=
ot have IPv6 address and needs immediately another offer from the DHCPv6 se=
rver with a different address (e.g. a global, unreserved
 address)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">b)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">With a valid IPv6=
 address<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The client has IP=
v6 address it can use during the valid life time and needs another address =
from DHCPv6 server (e.g. with a different address type)
 before the valid life time expires<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The client cannot=
 handle the address change and does not need the new address from DHCPv6 se=
rver<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25i=
n;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">c.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The client has IP=
v6 address it can use and does not need multiple addresses from DHCPv6 serv=
er<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">5.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">DHCPv6 server sho=
uld<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">a.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Offer a different=
 address type, or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">b.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Make the address =
available to other clients, or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">c.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Block the address=
 for further use (e.g. the address was invalid).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I propose that DECLINE sh=
ould be defined as a response for the addresses that cannot be assigned. Th=
ere can be a reason code in DECLINE helping the server interpret
 the response.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dusan Mudric.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Ted Lemo=
n [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 09, 2017 9:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bernie Volz (volz); dhcwg<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 9, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Me=
nlo-Regular&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">How can I contribute to RFC3315bis? Wh=
at is the process?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The first step would be to figure out what you want,=
 why you want it, and why anybody should care about it. &nbsp; Then you exp=
lain that on the mailing list and see if you get some interest.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">From reading what you've said so far, what you want =
is the ability for a client to say it doesn't like a particular address, wi=
th the intended effect that if it asks for another address, it will get a _=
different_ address. &nbsp; But your intended
 semantics are unclear, and I don't see how the server can usefully address=
 this use case. &nbsp; You'd need to explain that.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:40:33 -0500
In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:38 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> 1.       When DHCPv6 client starts it sends SOLICIT with IA option =
(without or with IPv6 address). The server sends ADVERTISE message =
offering IPv6 address(es). If the server offers IPv6 address(es) that =
client cannot use (e.g. an address with wrong semantics, a multicast =
address, a reserved address, =E2=80=A6 , a second address and the client =
can support only one address), the client should be able to respond to =
the server indicating which address it cannot use.

Let me stop you here.   This is a server misconfiguration.   The server =
is not artificially intelligent, so the client can't usefully tell the =
server it is misconfigured.   If the server is configured to hand out =
addresses with the wrong semantics, the solution is to fix the server, =
not complicate the protocol with a way for the client to tell the server =
something it can't do anything about.   This also needlessly complicates =
the client.

So why do you think this is a useful thing to do?   What =
non-hypothetical problem are you trying to solve here?


--Apple-Mail=_49B6282A-4623-4533-9093-7ACF56B9CB96
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:38 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: =
-0.25in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">1.<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">When DHCPv6 client starts it sends SOLICIT =
with IA option (without or with IPv6 address). The server sends =
ADVERTISE message offering IPv6 address(es). If the server offers IPv6 =
address(es) that client cannot use (e.g. an address with wrong =
semantics, a multicast address, a reserved address, =E2=80=A6 , a second =
address and the client can support only one address), the client should =
be able to respond to the server indicating which address it cannot =
use.</span></div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>Let me =
stop you here. &nbsp; This is a server misconfiguration. &nbsp; The =
server is not artificially intelligent, so the client can't usefully =
tell the server it is misconfigured. &nbsp; If the server is configured =
to hand out addresses with the wrong semantics, the solution is to fix =
the server, not complicate the protocol with a way for the client to =
tell the server something it can't do anything about. &nbsp; This also =
needlessly complicates the client.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>So =
why do you think this is a useful thing to do? &nbsp; What =
non-hypothetical problem are you trying to solve here?</div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_49B6282A-4623-4533-9093-7ACF56B9CB96--


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 15:46:14 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: "Ted Lemon" <mellon@fugue.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On 9 Feb 2017, at 10:46, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) wrote:
> The first problem statement is about the server misconfiguration. 
> Instead of client silently ignoring the offered address, or even 
> worse, assigning the misconfigured address, the server (and 
> administrator) should be informed about the misconfiguration.

How does this make things better?


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:06:08 +0000
Message-ID: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8F7@fugue.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Let's say there is a deployment within an enterprise of 20 000 devices, eac=
h with DHCPv6 enabled. They are on different locations and use different DH=
CPv6 servers. One server is configured to statically assign IPv6 addresses =
(based on the client MAC) or with a pool of IPv6 addresses for the local li=
nk. If a client on that location assigns the misconfigured address it becom=
es unreachable. A user does not even know how to spell DHCPv6 and all he/sh=
e experiences is that the device is unusable. The network operator does not=
 get any indication that the device is out of service.

If the client is able to tell the server that the address cannot be used, t=
he administrator should be able to get some notification about the problem =
(e.g. an alarm), and find in the server log there was the configuration pro=
blem. The server might be able to automatically solve the issue. For exampl=
e, the server can be configured with different address pools (e.g. using di=
fferent address types) and the server can offer the address from a differen=
t address pool.

Regards,
Dusan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 10:48 AM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: Bernie Volz; dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

On 9 Feb 2017, at 10:46, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) wrote:
> The first problem statement is about the server misconfiguration.=20
> Instead of client silently ignoring the offered address, or even=20
> worse, assigning the misconfigured address, the server (and
> administrator) should be informed about the misconfiguration.

How does this make things better?


From nobody Thu Feb  9 08:13:11 2017
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From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 08:12:58 -0800
Message-ID: <CAL10_BruJGePQMSBkf0kUCA9fvYXHC1T61ZSxGkfrh=piUg0fg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> w=
rote:
> Let's say there is a deployment within an enterprise of 20 000 devices, e=
ach with DHCPv6 enabled. They are on different locations and use different =
DHCPv6 servers. One server is configured to statically assign IPv6 addresse=
s (based on the client MAC) or with a pool of IPv6 addresses for the local =
link. If a client on that location assigns the misconfigured address it bec=
omes unreachable. A user does not even know how to spell DHCPv6 and all he/=
she experiences is that the device is unusable. The network operator does n=
ot get any indication that the device is out of service.

Assigns what misconfigured address?  The client will either do a naked
SOLICIT and get the reserved IP that the server was configured to give
it, or it will do a CONFIRM with the address it obtained from a
different link and the server will REPLY for that address giving it 0
lifetimes to instruct the client that the address is no longer usable.
Then the client goes back to the SOLICIT and gets the reserved IP that
the server was configured to give it.

--=20
Andre Kostur


From nobody Thu Feb  9 08:24:42 2017
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 11:24:34 -0500
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To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> If the client is able to tell the server that the address cannot be =
used, the administrator should be able to get some notification about =
the problem (e.g. an alarm), and find in the server log there was the =
configuration problem. The server might be able to automatically solve =
the issue. For example, the server can be configured with different =
address pools (e.g. using different address types) and the server can =
offer the address from a different address pool.

How does the client know that the address "cannot be used"?


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charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span =
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normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">If the client is able to tell the server that =
the address cannot be used, the administrator should be able to get some =
notification about the problem (e.g. an alarm), and find in the server =
log there was the configuration problem. The server might be able to =
automatically solve the issue. For example, the server can be configured =
with different address pools (e.g. using different address types) and =
the server can offer the address from a different address =
pool.</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">How =
does the client know that the address "cannot be used"?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_5051DAEF-B7F2-4AF6-86F8-9FBD75F686F1--


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:28:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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The DHCPv6 client gets the address. Since I did not want to change the clie=
nt, I passed the address to the application to do the validation. The appli=
cation found out the address is not usable. The client can get a feedback f=
rom the application that the address is not usable, or the client can be co=
nfigured with the policy rules to validate the address itself.

Dusan

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:25 AM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: Bernie Volz; dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<mailt=
o:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:
If the client is able to tell the server that the address cannot be used, t=
he administrator should be able to get some notification about the problem =
(e.g. an alarm), and find in the server log there was the configuration pro=
blem. The server might be able to automatically solve the issue. For exampl=
e, the server can be configured with different address pools (e.g. using di=
fferent address types) and the server can offer the address from a differen=
t address pool.

How does the client know that the address "cannot be used"?


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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The DHCPv6 client gets th=
e address. Since I did not want to change the client, I passed the address =
to the application to do the validation. The application
 found out the address is not usable. The client can get a feedback from th=
e application that the address is not usable, or the client can be configur=
ed with the policy rules to validate the address itself.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dusan<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Ted Lemo=
n [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bernie Volz; dhcwg<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Me=
nlo-Regular&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">If the client is able to tell the serv=
er that the address cannot be used, the administrator should be able to get=
 some notification about the problem (e.g. an alarm), and
 find in the server log there was the configuration problem. The server mig=
ht be able to automatically solve the issue. For example, the server can be=
 configured with different address pools (e.g. using different address type=
s) and the server can offer the
 address from a different address pool.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How does the client know that the address &quot;cann=
ot be used&quot;?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18ABBAZUS1EXMB03glob_--


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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 11:30:29 -0500
In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18ABB@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A3AFA8FF-FDEF-4058-814A-E687D5CC2969@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18ABB@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> The DHCPv6 client gets the address. Since I did not want to change the =
client, I passed the address to the application to do the validation. =
The application found out the address is not usable. The client can get =
a feedback from the application that the address is not usable, or the =
client can be configured with the policy rules to validate the address =
itself.

How does the application determine that the address is not usable?   =
What is the validation process?



--Apple-Mail=_C7A3F108-8A64-4A47-A203-CDA83113BBD8
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The DHCPv6 client gets =
the address. Since I did not want to change the client, I passed the =
address to the application to do the validation. The application found =
out the address is not usable. The client can get a feedback from the =
application that the address is not usable, or the client can be =
configured with the policy rules to validate the address =
itself.</span></div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>How =
does the application determine that the address is not usable? &nbsp; =
What is the validation process?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=

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From nobody Thu Feb  9 08:37:20 2017
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcAAClxKAAAGY9gD///saAIAADr9wgAA6TwCAAFLTEP//ubmAgABS6jD//68/gIAAUzJQ//+28gAACnV4EAAKQI6AAB7vbSA=
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:37:11 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A3AFA8FF-FDEF-4058-814A-E687D5CC2969@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18ABB@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A023117A-2B06-4660-88B9-9AB183F05B66@fugue.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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The application does the semantic check for the address and, if the address=
 is semantically correct, checks if the device using the offered address ca=
n be reached within the domain the in which device has to communicate. If, =
for example, the device has to be globally reachable, the address has to be=
 an unreserved, or not deprecated, global address.

Dusan

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:30 AM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: Bernie Volz; dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<mailt=
o:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:
The DHCPv6 client gets the address. Since I did not want to change the clie=
nt, I passed the address to the application to do the validation. The appli=
cation found out the address is not usable. The client can get a feedback f=
rom the application that the address is not usable, or the client can be co=
nfigured with the policy rules to validate the address itself.

How does the application determine that the address is not usable?   What i=
s the validation process?



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The application does the =
semantic check for the address and, if the address is semantically correct,=
 checks if the device using the offered address can be reached
 within the domain the in which device has to communicate. If, for example,=
 the device has to be globally reachable, the address has to be an unreserv=
ed, or not deprecated, global address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dusan<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Ted Lemo=
n [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bernie Volz; dhcwg<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The DHCPv6 client gets th=
e address. Since I did not want to change the client, I passed the address =
to the application to do the validation. The application
 found out the address is not usable. The client can get a feedback from th=
e application that the address is not usable, or the client can be configur=
ed with the policy rules to validate the address itself.</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How does the application determine that the address =
is not usable? &nbsp; What is the validation process?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B12AZUS1EXMB03glob_--


From nobody Thu Feb  9 08:39:26 2017
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 11:39:20 -0500
In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B12@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A3AFA8FF-FDEF-4058-814A-E687D5CC2969@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18ABB@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A023117A-2B06-4660-88B9-9AB183F05B66@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B12@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> The application does the semantic check for the address and, if the =
address is semantically correct, checks if the device using the offered =
address can be reached within the domain the in which device has to =
communicate. If, for example, the device has to be globally reachable, =
the address has to be an unreserved, or not deprecated, global address.

OK.   Why can't the DHCP server do this validation?



--Apple-Mail=_61EBD1F4-56B2-43E7-A300-0CAF5BFD2422
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The application does =
the semantic check for the address and, if the address is semantically =
correct, checks if the device using the offered address can be reached =
within the domain the in which device has to communicate. If, for =
example, the device has to be globally reachable, the address has to be =
an unreserved, or not deprecated, global =
address.</span></div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>OK. =
&nbsp; Why can't the DHCP server do this validation?</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_61EBD1F4-56B2-43E7-A300-0CAF5BFD2422--


From nobody Thu Feb  9 08:46:31 2017
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:46:21 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8 F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> One server is configured to statically assign IPv6 addresses (based on =
the client MAC) or with a pool of IPv6 addresses for the local link. If =
a client on that location assigns the misconfigured address it becomes =
unreachable. A user does not even know how to spell DHCPv6 and all =
he/she experiences is that the device is unusable. The network operator =
does not get any indication that the device is out of service.

And just how does the client differentiate between that being a =
deliberate policy choice by the admin (perhaps that location is not =
supposed to have outside IPv6 connectivity) and a server =
misconfiguration ?
Besides, just how is that different from other (eg DHCP4) setups ? If I =
configure the HCP server to give the wrong router address then clients =
get broken network configs.

At the end of the day, unless you are going to build an all-knowing, =
globe spanning, AI service that auto-configures everything - then you =
have to allow for admins to have some intelligence and some competency =
in their work. So far I've seen nothing in your suggestions that goes =
beyond "the admin may make a mistake and then things are broken". yes we =
can make mistakes - but finding and dealing them is part of the job.

So, other than "the admin may make a mistake", what use cases do you =
have ?



"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> The application does the semantic check for the address and, if the =
address is semantically correct, checks if the device using the offered =
address can be reached within the domain the in which device has to =
communicate. If, for example, the device has to be globally reachable, =
the address has to be an unreserved, or not deprecated, global address.

You have **NOT** described anything related to whether the address =
issued is usable at the network level, basically at the level DHCP is =
working at. By your own admission, the device **DOES** have a valid =
working address, but for some reason the **APPLICATION** cannot use it. =
The **APPLICATION** should report that there is a communications problem =
- this is how it works normally. The address may well be perfectly =
usable for other traffic.

Part of troubleshooting such an issue is to look at the network =
connectivity and the requirements of the application. This sounds very =
much like the refrain you hear from users who declare "the internet is =
down" because the web page they are trying to reach isn't working.


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcAAClxKAAAGY9gD///saAIAADr9wgAA6TwCAAFLTEP//ubmAgABS6jD//68/gIAAUzJQ//+28gAACnV4EAAKQI6AAB7vbSAAMyFpAABwmj1w
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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The server can do the same validation. If the server does the validation, i=
t will be a new feature and there will be a mix of servers that do and do-n=
ot provide this validation. The client either has to talk to the server tha=
t does provide the validation or do the validation itself.

This is the first problem statement. There are two more:

-          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot su=
pport

-          A change of IPv6 address, that the client cannot handle

Dusan

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:39 AM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: Bernie Volz; dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<mailt=
o:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:
The application does the semantic check for the address and, if the address=
 is semantically correct, checks if the device using the offered address ca=
n be reached within the domain the in which device has to communicate. If, =
for example, the device has to be globally reachable, the address has to be=
 an unreserved, or not deprecated, global address.

OK.   Why can't the DHCP server do this validation?



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The server can do the sam=
e validation. If the server does the validation, it will be a new feature a=
nd there will be a mix of servers that do and do-not provide
 this validation. The client either has to talk to the server that does pro=
vide the validation or do the validation itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">This is the first problem=
 statement. There are two more:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
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list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Assignment of mul=
tiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A change of IPv6 =
address, that the client cannot handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dusan<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Ted Lemo=
n [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bernie Volz; dhcwg<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The application does the =
semantic check for the address and, if the address is semantically correct,=
 checks if the device using the offered address can be reached
 within the domain the in which device has to communicate. If, for example,=
 the device has to be globally reachable, the address has to be an unreserv=
ed, or not deprecated, global address.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OK. &nbsp; Why can't the DHCP server do this validat=
ion?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 16:53:18 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8 F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <E4F9FD26-ECE0-4FE8-AACD-ED0EA79BCC2D@thehobsons.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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" By your own admission, the device **DOES** have a valid working address, =
but for some reason the **APPLICATION** cannot use it."

I was just saying the validation is done in the application because DHCPv6 =
client cannot do it. It is about the network reachability and not about the=
 application. Site-Local (FEC0::/10), for example, cannot be used by any de=
vice (RFC 3879: Deprecating Site Local Addresses. The prefix MUST NOT be re=
assigned for other use except by a future IETF standards action.)

Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Hobson
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:46 AM
To: dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> One server is configured to statically assign IPv6 addresses (based on th=
e client MAC) or with a pool of IPv6 addresses for the local link. If a cli=
ent on that location assigns the misconfigured address it becomes unreachab=
le. A user does not even know how to spell DHCPv6 and all he/she experience=
s is that the device is unusable. The network operator does not get any ind=
ication that the device is out of service.

And just how does the client differentiate between that being a deliberate =
policy choice by the admin (perhaps that location is not supposed to have o=
utside IPv6 connectivity) and a server misconfiguration ?
Besides, just how is that different from other (eg DHCP4) setups ? If I con=
figure the HCP server to give the wrong router address then clients get bro=
ken network configs.

At the end of the day, unless you are going to build an all-knowing, globe =
spanning, AI service that auto-configures everything - then you have to all=
ow for admins to have some intelligence and some competency in their work. =
So far I've seen nothing in your suggestions that goes beyond "the admin ma=
y make a mistake and then things are broken". yes we can make mistakes - bu=
t finding and dealing them is part of the job.

So, other than "the admin may make a mistake", what use cases do you have ?



"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> The application does the semantic check for the address and, if the addre=
ss is semantically correct, checks if the device using the offered address =
can be reached within the domain the in which device has to communicate. If=
, for example, the device has to be globally reachable, the address has to =
be an unreserved, or not deprecated, global address.

You have **NOT** described anything related to whether the address issued i=
s usable at the network level, basically at the level DHCP is working at. B=
y your own admission, the device **DOES** have a valid working address, but=
 for some reason the **APPLICATION** cannot use it. The **APPLICATION** sho=
uld report that there is a communications problem - this is how it works no=
rmally. The address may well be perfectly usable for other traffic.

Part of troubleshooting such an issue is to look at the network connectivit=
y and the requirements of the application. This sounds very much like the r=
efrain you hear from users who declare "the internet is down" because the w=
eb page they are trying to reach isn't working.

_______________________________________________
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From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 08:59:43 -0800
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:
> This is the first problem statement. There are two more:
>
> -          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot
> support

Already dealt with by the protocol.  The server OFFERs 2 addresses,
the client just REQUESTs one of them.

-- 
Andre Kostur


From nobody Thu Feb  9 09:14:00 2017
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 12:13:54 -0500
In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B5E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <0540D77C-E307-4B96-A53B-81599408C8F7@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A3AFA8FF-FDEF-4058-814A-E687D5CC2969@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18ABB@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <A023117A-2B06-4660-88B9-9AB183F05B66@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B12@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <B2511278-5D7A-40E0-AC4A-60784C101A80@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B5E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> The server can do the same validation. If the server does the =
validation, it will be a new feature and there will be a mix of servers =
that do and do-not provide this validation. The client either has to =
talk to the server that does provide the validation or do the validation =
itself.

So why is it easier to have the client do the validation than the =
server?   You're adding protocol to make this work, and in order for =
this to be useful, changes are required on the server anyway.   These =
changes are quite a bit more complex than the changes required to simply =
do whatever validation you are arguing should be done.   So why not do =
it the easy way instead of the hard way?
=20
> This is the first problem statement. There are two more:
> -          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client =
cannot support

Then the client is broken.   Why not fix it instead of adding more =
protocol?

> -          A change of IPv6 address, that the client cannot handle

Again, the client is broken.   Why not fix it instead of adding more =
protocol?


--Apple-Mail=_CFF79974-4155-46DA-BB61-237E51123F3E
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The server can do the =
same validation. If the server does the validation, it will be a new =
feature and there will be a mix of servers that do and do-not provide =
this validation. The client either has to talk to the server that does =
provide the validation or do the validation =
itself.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>So why =
is it easier to have the client do the validation than the server? =
&nbsp; You're adding protocol to make this work, and in order for this =
to be useful, changes are required on the server anyway. &nbsp; These =
changes are quite a bit more complex than the changes required to simply =
do whatever validation you are arguing should be done. &nbsp; So why not =
do it the easy way instead of the hard way?</div><div><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">This is the first problem statement. There are two more:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span class=3D"">-<span =
style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, =
that the client cannot support</span></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Then the client is broken. &nbsp; Why not fix it =
instead of adding more protocol?</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: =
-0.25in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">-<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">A change of IPv6 address, that the client =
cannot handle</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Again, the client is broken. &nbsp; Why not fix it instead of =
adding more protocol?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_CFF79974-4155-46DA-BB61-237E51123F3E--


From nobody Thu Feb  9 09:14:35 2017
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA186B9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <531b6fa753a441c19f1d47958f20b659@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18717@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <240e4b5573614422a42abec328872c0b@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18746@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <fd3365190bd445b1ad00a7d8043530dd@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA188B2@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <6792EF5E-8C1F-4D3B-BC6D-8D2EA011BF31@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1890A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <36880D80-601D-42BF-92F1-3E1B3A59A8FD@cisco.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1892A@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <15160861-4D37-4A5E-900A-8AD688218EEF@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA1898F@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C16D3614-AD9E-4AB3-915B-5288DB0EB239@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189BD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA189F9@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <E4F9FD26-ECE0-4FE8-AACD-ED0EA79BCC2D@thehobsons.co.uk> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA18B73@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 09:14:30 -0800
Message-ID: <CAL10_BpbNy5HrDE=5Nr6Q+hXfEPCXtg=bErcXxpNccpY0zjPew@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> w=
rote:
> " By your own admission, the device **DOES** have a valid working address=
, but for some reason the **APPLICATION** cannot use it."
>
> I was just saying the validation is done in the application because DHCPv=
6 client cannot do it. It is about the network reachability and not about t=
he application. Site-Local (FEC0::/10), for example, cannot be used by any =
device (RFC 3879: Deprecating Site Local Addresses. The prefix MUST NOT be =
reassigned for other use except by a future IETF standards action.)

So you don't configure your DHCP server to give out those IP
addresses.  Problem solved.  This doesn't need a protocol change.  And
should it (the FEC0::/10 prefix) be reassigned for other uses in a
future IETF standards action, then one would need to change your
application again, and/or change the DHCP server again.   And, the
application may be in use in some network that already has that prefix
in use because that network has not had the time to renumber that
prefix into something like a Unique Local IPv6 prefix (RFC 4193).

--=20
Andre Kostur


From nobody Thu Feb  9 09:23:39 2017
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To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> -          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client =
cannot support

I thought it was part of the spec that a client must be capable of being =
configured with multiple addresses. As a minimum it must support 2 - one =
link-local, and one globally unique if external connectivity is needed.



"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> I was just saying the validation is done in the application because =
DHCPv6 client cannot do it. It is about the network reachability and not =
about the application. Site-Local (FEC0::/10), for example, cannot be =
used by any device (RFC 3879: Deprecating Site Local Addresses. The =
prefix MUST NOT be reassigned for other use except by a future IETF =
standards action.)

1) How does the application know that allocation of such addresses isn't =
a deliberate policy decision ?
2) It's an "admin error" anyway and it will either a) be spotted fairly =
quickly due to the lack of connectivity, b) obviously isn't that =
important.

And as I said before, there is nothing to stop the admin putting (say) =
an incorrect router address in DHCPv4 - and I can't say I've seen a lot =
of clamour for "we must handle this automatically" features.


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From: "Liushucheng (Will)" <liushucheng@huawei.com>
To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" <anima@ietf.org>
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extensions for DHCPv4
        Authors         : Luyuan Fang
                          Deepak Bansal
                          Fabio Chiussi
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-02.txt
	Pages           : 7
	Date            : 2017-02-09

Abstract:
   This document extends the definition of the DHCPFORCERENEW message
   for parameter reconfiguration in DHCPv4. This extension makes the
   DHCPFORCERENEW message more suitable to reconfigure configuration
   parameters other than IP addresses, and aligns the behavior of the
   reconfiguration procedure in DHCPv4 to the corresponding behavior in
   DHCPv6.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Fang, Luyuan" <lufang@ebay.com>
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From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcAAClxKAAAGY9gD///saAIAADr9w///mfQCAAAvXgIAAALaAgAABlgCAAACTgIAABPwAgAAFJwCAAAESAIAAAJWAgAAB34CAAACaAIAAAlcAgAAJ8gCAARo+gA==
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:13:29 +0000
Message-ID: <80850211-62FA-4E42-BF57-FC32F29B19DC@jisc.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Thanks for all the comments. Personally, I don't think DHCPv6 should be use=
d for the address assignment. That topic is already discussed in a differen=
t thread. Will not discuss it here. But, if it is used for the address assi=
gnment, I would like all of the questions below to be addressed by the prot=
ocol.



On  this topic, there are several open questions about DHCPv6 protocol:

- If the key feature of the stateful DHCPv6 is the address assignment, why =
there is no any address validation?

- Why is the human intervention a part of the protocol? Why the protocol re=
quires an administrator not to make mistakes?

- Why the client must assign every address offered by the server? Why shoul=
d the client save the advertised leases for every IAADDR in IA's, if the st=
atus code is STATUS_Success?

- Why the client must use the address that does not match any of the router=
 prefixes?

- Why the client is not interworking with ND protocol?

- Why the client does not return the address it does not use?

- Why is DECLINE message associated with only one error code (DAD failed)?



In terms of the implementation, when the problems are understood, both the =
server and the client can be improved. The improvements can be done in flex=
ible ways. For example, DHCPv6 client policies can be configured in the cli=
ent configuration file. There is no need to change the client code.



Regards,

Dusan.



-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Hobson
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:23 PM
To: dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition



"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com<mailto:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote=
:



> -          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot =
support



I thought it was part of the spec that a client must be capable of being co=
nfigured with multiple addresses. As a minimum it must support 2 - one link=
-local, and one globally unique if external connectivity is needed.



On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<ma=
ilto:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:

> " By your own admission, the device **DOES** have a valid working address=
, but for some reason the **APPLICATION** cannot use it."

>

> I was just saying the validation is done in the application because

> DHCPv6 client cannot do it. It is about the network reachability and

> not about the application. Site-Local (FEC0::/10), for example, cannot

> be used by any device (RFC 3879: Deprecating Site Local Addresses. The

> prefix MUST NOT be reassigned for other use except by a future IETF

> standards action.)



So you don't configure your DHCP server to give out those IP addresses.  Pr=
oblem solved.  This doesn't need a protocol change.  And should it (the FEC=
0::/10 prefix) be reassigned for other uses in a future IETF standards acti=
on, then one would need to change your

application again, and/or change the DHCP server again.   And, the

application may be in use in some network that already has that prefix in u=
se because that network has not had the time to renumber that prefix into s=
omething like a Unique Local IPv6 prefix (RFC 4193).



--

Andre Kostur


On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<mailt=
o:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:
The server can do the same validation. If the server does the validation, i=
t will be a new feature and there will be a mix of servers that do and do-n=
ot provide this validation. The client either has to talk to the server tha=
t does provide the validation or do the validation itself.

So why is it easier to have the client do the validation than the server?  =
 You're adding protocol to make this work, and in order for this to be usef=
ul, changes are required on the server anyway.   These changes are quite a =
bit more complex than the changes required to simply do whatever validation=
 you are arguing should be done.   So why not do it the easy way instead of=
 the hard way?


This is the first problem statement. There are two more:
-          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot su=
pport

Then the client is broken.   Why not fix it instead of adding more protocol=
?


-          A change of IPv6 address, that the client cannot handle

Again, the client is broken.   Why not fix it instead of adding more protoc=
ol?



On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<ma=
ilto:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:

> This is the first problem statement. There are two more:

>

> -          Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot

> support



Already dealt with by the protocol.  The server OFFERs 2 addresses, the cli=
ent just REQUESTs one of them.



--

Andre Kostur





"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com<mailto:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote=
:



> I was just saying the validation is done in the application because DHCPv=
6 client cannot do it. It is about the network reachability and not about t=
he application. Site-Local (FEC0::/10), for example, cannot be used by any =
device (RFC 3879: Deprecating Site Local Addresses. The prefix MUST NOT be =
reassigned for other use except by a future IETF standards action.)



1) How does the application know that allocation of such addresses isn't a =
deliberate policy decision ?

2) It's an "admin error" anyway and it will either a) be spotted fairly qui=
ckly due to the lack of connectivity, b) obviously isn't that important.



And as I said before, there is nothing to stop the admin putting (say) an i=
ncorrect router address in DHCPv4 - and I can't say I've seen a lot of clam=
our for "we must handle this automatically" features.



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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanks for all the comments. Personally, I don&#8=
217;t think DHCPv6 should be used for the address assignment. That topic is=
 already discussed in a different thread. Will not discuss it here. But, if=
 it is used for the address assignment,
 I would like all of the questions below to be addressed by the protocol.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On&nbsp; this topic, there are several open quest=
ions about DHCPv6 protocol:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- If the key feature of the stateful DHCPv6 is th=
e address assignment, why there is no any address validation?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- Why is the human intervention a part of the pro=
tocol? Why the protocol requires an administrator not to make mistakes?<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- Why the client must assign every address offere=
d by the server? Why should the client save the advertised leases for every=
 IAADDR in IA&#8217;s, if the status code is STATUS_Success?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- Why the client must use the address that does n=
ot match any of the router prefixes?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- Why the client is not interworking with ND prot=
ocol?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- Why the client does not return the address it d=
oes not use?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">- Why is DECLINE message associated with only one=
 error code (DAD failed)?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">In terms of the implementation, when the problems=
 are understood, both the server and the client can be improved. The improv=
ements can be done in flexible ways. For example, DHCPv6 client policies ca=
n be configured in the client configuration
 file. There is no need to change the client code.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Dusan.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></a>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Hobson<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 12:23 PM<br>
To: dhcwg<br>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&quot;Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:dmudric@avaya.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:n=
one">dmudric@avaya.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot s=
upport<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I thought it was part of the spec that a client m=
ust be capable of being configured with multiple addresses. As a minimum it=
 must support 2 - one link-local, and one globally unique if external conne=
ctivity is needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Du=
san) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &quot; By your own admission, the device **D=
OES** have a valid working address, but for some reason the **APPLICATION**=
 cannot use it.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I was just saying the validation is done in =
the application because
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; DHCPv6 client cannot do it. It is about the =
network reachability and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; not about the application. Site-Local (FEC0:=
:/10), for example, cannot
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; be used by any device (RFC 3879: Deprecating=
 Site Local Addresses. The
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; prefix MUST NOT be reassigned for other use =
except by a future IETF
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; standards action.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">So you don't configure your DHCP server to give o=
ut those IP addresses.&nbsp; Problem solved.&nbsp; This doesn't need a prot=
ocol change.&nbsp; And should it (the FEC0::/10 prefix) be reassigned for o=
ther uses in a future IETF standards action, then
 one would need to change your<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">application again, and/or change the DHCP server =
again.&nbsp;&nbsp; And, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">application may be in use in some network that al=
ready has that prefix in use because that network has not had the time to r=
enumber that prefix into something like a Unique Local IPv6 prefix (RFC 419=
3).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Andre Kostur<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 9, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The server can do the =
same validation. If the server does the validation, it will be a new featur=
e and there will be a mix of servers that do and do-not provide this valida=
tion. The client either has to talk
 to the server that does provide the validation or do the validation itself=
.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So why is it easier to have the client do the valida=
tion than the server? &nbsp; You're adding protocol to make this work, and =
in order for this to be useful, changes are required on the server anyway. =
&nbsp; These changes are quite a bit more complex
 than the changes required to simply do whatever validation you are arguing=
 should be done. &nbsp; So why not do it the easy way instead of the hard w=
ay?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This is the first prob=
lem statement. There are two more:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"color:#1=
F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-converted-spac=
e">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Assignment of multiple=
 IPV6 addresses, that
 the client cannot support</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Then the client is broken. &nbsp; Why not fix it ins=
tead of adding more protocol?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in"><span style=3D"color:#1=
F497D">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-converted-spac=
e">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">A change of IPv6 addre=
ss, that the client
 cannot handle</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Again, the client is broken. &nbsp; Why not fix it i=
nstead of adding more protocol?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Du=
san) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; This is the first problem statement. There a=
re two more:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Assignment of multiple IPV6 addresses, that the client cannot<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; support<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Already dealt with by the protocol.&nbsp; The ser=
ver OFFERs 2 addresses, the client just REQUESTs one of them.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Andre Kostur<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&quot;Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:dmudric@avaya.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:n=
one">dmudric@avaya.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; I was just saying the validation is done in =
the application because DHCPv6 client cannot do it. It is about the network=
 reachability and not about the application. Site-Local (FEC0::/10), for ex=
ample, cannot be used by any device (RFC
 3879: Deprecating Site Local Addresses. The prefix MUST NOT be reassigned =
for other use except by a future IETF standards action.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">1) How does the application know that allocation =
of such addresses isn't a deliberate policy decision ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">2) It's an &quot;admin error&quot; anyway and it =
will either a) be spotted fairly quickly due to the lack of connectivity, b=
) obviously isn't that important.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">And as I said before, there is nothing to stop th=
e admin putting (say) an incorrect router address in DHCPv4 - and I can't s=
ay I've seen a lot of clamour for &quot;we must handle this automatically&q=
uot; features.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">dhcwg mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org"><span style=3D"=
color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">dhcwg@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/u=
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From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 08:25:20 -0800
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To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:35 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
<dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:
> - If the key feature of the stateful DHCPv6 is the address assignment, wh=
y
> there is no any address validation?

You need to be clear on what you mean by "address validation".  (Oh,
and DHCPv6 is responsible for both address and prefix assignment)

> - Why is the human intervention a part of the protocol? Why the protocol
> requires an administrator not to make mistakes?

Everything is susceptible to human error.  You need to have more
specific use-cases to get anywhere near this question.  Also, the
protocol does not mandate configuration management.  Perhaps your DHCP
server has the capability of comparing its configuration with that on
a router to look for certain potential configuration mismatches.  But
that's a quality of implementation issue, not a protocol issue.

> - Why the client must assign every address offered by the server? Why sho=
uld
> the client save the advertised leases for every IAADDR in IA=E2=80=99s, i=
f the
> status code is STATUS_Success?

It doesn't have to.  The client can pick and choose, preferably at the
ADVERTISE/REQUEST stage.  The server ADVERTISEs a dozen addresses, the
client decides that it wants only 1 of them and REQUESTs it.   Or a
less well-behaved client could REQUEST them all, but only actually
configure one of them on an interface.

> - Why the client must use the address that does not match any of the rout=
er
> prefixes?

The router may not be advertising any prefixes, so the client doesn't
know any different.  (Nor should it)

> - Why the client is not interworking with ND protocol?

Be more specific.  ND covers a lot of ground.

> - Why the client does not return the address it does not use?

Talk to your client vendor.  The client can return addresses by
protocol.  Either by not REQUESTing it in the first place (though this
isn't returning an address, it's just not claiming it), or by
RELEASEing it.

> - Why is DECLINE message associated with only one error code (DAD failed)=
?

No use-case has been presented that the DHC working group has agreed
upon that a DECLINE for other reasons is the appropriate response.

--=20
Andre Kostur


From nobody Fri Feb 10 09:10:41 2017
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:10:35 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> Please see inlined

If you learned the basics of how to quote stuff properly you wouldn't =
need to say that ! Bottom quoting is really quite easy if you try ;-)

>> You need to be clear on what you mean by "address validation".  (Oh, =
and DHCPv6 is responsible for both address and prefix assignment)
> =20
>  - Syntax checks

What sort of syntax checks ? Apart from custom options, there's very =
little an admin can do to cause the server to send packets that aren't =
syntactically correct. So in most cases, for there to be a syntax issue, =
it would indicate a programming error - ie a bug in rhw software.
There are far more useful ways to detect that than complicating the =
protocol.

>  - Semantic checks

Ditto ?

>  - Prefix checks

How ? Do you propose to equip the client with ESP as to the network =
admin's intent ?


> > - Why is the human intervention a part of the protocol? Why the
> > protocol requires an administrator not to make mistakes?

There is a limit to how far you can, or should, take that. The logical =
endpoint of that is that "things" come preconfigured with a restricted =
set of option that the vendor envisaged you might want to use - more =
reliable, less scope for admin errors. Personally I find such systems a =
right PITA when they make simple things easy but advanced things =
impossible.


> What if the router advertised a prefix and the client received an =
address that does not start with the prefix?

That's not an invalid configuration is it ?


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To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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I wrote:

> Bottom quoting is really quite easy if you try ;-)

That should say "bottom posting"


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From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:09:57 -0800
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To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
<dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

>> - If the key feature of the stateful DHCPv6 is the address assignment,
>> why there is no any address validation?
>
> You need to be clear on what you mean by "address validation".  (Oh, and
> DHCPv6 is responsible for both address and prefix assignment)
>
> [Dusan] - Syntax checks

All of the addresses are necessarily syntactically correct.  An
address is a 16-byte value.

>               - Semantic checks

Again, covers a lot of ground.  Be more specific.

>               - Prefix checks

A decent DHCP server will only allocate addresses that are appropriate
to where the client is requesting from.  How the DHCP server knows
what prefixes are appropriate is a configuration issue and beyond the
scope of the DHCPv6 protocol.

>> - Why is the human intervention a part of the protocol? Why the
>> protocol requires an administrator not to make mistakes?
>
> Everything is susceptible to human error.  You need to have more specific
> use-cases to get anywhere near this question.  Also, the protocol does no=
t
> mandate configuration management.  Perhaps your DHCP server has the
> capability of comparing its configuration with that on a router to look f=
or
> certain potential configuration mismatches.  But that's a quality of
> implementation issue, not a protocol issue.
>
> [Dusan] If the server communicates with a router to compare the
> configuration, it is a protocol

Just not the DHCPv6 protocol.  Which puts it beyond the scope of the
working group.

>> - Why the client must assign every address offered by the server? Why
>> should the client save the advertised leases for every IAADDR in IA=E2=
=80=99s,
>> if the status code is STATUS_Success?
>
> It doesn't have to.  The client can pick and choose, preferably at the
> ADVERTISE/REQUEST stage.  The server ADVERTISEs a dozen addresses, the
> client decides that it wants only 1 of them and REQUESTs it.   Or a
> less well-behaved client could REQUEST them all, but only actually config=
ure
> one of them on an interface.
>
> [Dusan] Which section in RFC3315 defines how DHCPv6 client selects the
> leases? Which section defines what the client does with non-selected leas=
es?

Beyond the scope of the protocol.  The client may use whatever logic
it wants to choose which leases it wishes to establish.  It REQUESTs
the ones it wants, does nothing with the rest.  Most servers will
quickly reclaim addresses which have been ADVERTISEd but not
REQUESTed.  That is why it is (by default) a 4-message exchange to
establish a lease.  The server already has to deal with the idea that
its ADVERTISE is never answered.  The client may have chosen a
different server to get its leases from.

>> - Why the client must use the address that does not match any of the
>> router prefixes?
>
> The router may not be advertising any prefixes, so the client doesn't kno=
w
> any different.  (Nor should it)
>
> [Dusan] What if the router advertised a prefix and the client received an
> address that does not start with the prefix?

The network administrator may still want to give out an address for an
unadvertised prefix.

>> - Why the client is not interworking with ND protocol?
>
> Be more specific.  ND covers a lot of ground.
>
> [Dusan] DHCPv6 client does not know about router prefixes and does not kn=
ow
> which router is reachable. Which section in RFC3315 defines what the clie=
nt
> should do with the address:
> - if ND receives prefix P1?
> - if the router that advertised P1 is not reachable?

Beyond the scope of the protocol.  Again, the admin may be wishing to
assign addresses for an unadvertised prefix.  Or the admin may be
wishing to give out an address that is intentionally unroutable.  Not
the protocol's role to decide that.

>> - Why the client does not return the address it does not use?
>
> Talk to your client vendor.  The client can return addresses by protocol.
> Either by not REQUESTing it in the first place (though this isn't returni=
ng
> an address, it's just not claiming it), or by RELEASEing it.
>
> [Dusan] Which section in RFC3315 defines what the client should RELEASE
> after ADVERTISE and REPLY? Why should RELEASE be used for the address tha=
t
> is not even assigned?

Nothing to RELEASE after the ADVERTISE.  The client does not yet have
the lease.  As you've already pointed out, the address had not yet
been assigned.  Section 18.1.6.

>> - Why is DECLINE message associated with only one error code (DAD failed=
)?
>
> No use-case has been presented that the DHC working group has agreed upon
> that a DECLINE for other reasons is the appropriate response.
>
> [Dusan] That is why I am presenting these use cases.

And so far none of them have been accepted (as problems) by the
working group.  You need to convince the working group that a problem
exists, why the existing protocol can't deal with it, and what is the
proposed solution to the problem (with at least some specificity), and
why it's worth changing the protocol to deal with the problem.

--=20
Andre Kostur


From nobody Fri Feb 10 13:08:43 2017
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:30:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:34:28 -0800
Message-ID: <CAL10_Bpy+4Eb4wUwuy5YkKaOO+69o0Ombej7n_ApCg1Gw-r0QQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
<dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:
> DHCPv6 is then very light weight:

Well.. I suspect a bunch of us DHCP implementers may not agree with
that statement.

> - address assignment is not a part of the protocol,

Where did you get this idea from?  DHCPv6 assigns addresses all day
long.  What the client does with that assignment is up to the client.

> - address selection is not part of the protocol, and

How the client selects which address to use? Nope.  The protocol
doesn't care, nor should it.  The server determines what its willing
to ADVERTISE to the client and sends it off.  The client REQUESTs what
it wants.  The server REPLYs to complete the "contract" that the
client may use those addresses named in the REPLY for the specified
Valid Lifetime.  This allows different clients to choose different
methods for selecting an address.

> - if the client, using its own logic to select from the offered addresses (not part of the protocol), does not select some or any, the protocol should not report that to the server, and

It does not appear that anybody else here understands why you keep
hammering on this point.  You have not said why this is a problem
beyond "I want to".  A common implementation is that the server holds
aside the ADVERTISEd addresses for a short while (maybe a few minutes,
maybe 10s of seconds, its an implementation detail).  If the client
doesn't come back and REQUEST it, then release it back to the pool.
In an address space that's 2^64 in size, who cares if a handful of
addresses are being held aside for clients that have not yet come to
REQUEST them.  This worked perfectly fine even in the IPv4 cases where
the address space is much smaller (possibly 10s of addresses).

> - the fact that this kind of protocol can leave a device unreachable does not matter to the protocol that assigns the address.

Nope.  And the admin may be intentionally doing so.  Not for the
protocol to decide.

> Did I get it correctly?

No.


I have to ask: what's the motivation behind asking these questions?
There seems to be a more fundamental misunderstanding underlying this
line of questioning.

-- 
Andre Kostur


From nobody Fri Feb 10 13:38:27 2017
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Fang, Luyuan" <lufang@ebay.com>
Thread-Topic: WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extensions for DHCPv4
Thread-Index: AdJFrgUx4It+bot+S7WY8x3eyFGyNQGacxOAASTqXrAMnAjUgAAymE2K
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 21:38:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extensions for DHCPv4
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Hi:

Thanks.

- Bernie (from iPad)

On Feb 10, 2017, at 12:29 AM, Fang, Luyuan <lufang@ebay.com<mailto:lufang@e=
bay.com>> wrote:

Hi Bernie,

Thank you for your review and discussion. Sorry for the late reply.
MSFT Azure is working to have an implementation in CY17, we'll wait a bit b=
efore WGLC.

Regarding your comments for Section 2.3, good points, we removed both sente=
nces in the updated version.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-02

Thanks,
Luyuan

From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com<mailto:volz@cisco.com>>
Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:09 AM
To: "Fang, Luyuan" <lufang@ebay.com<mailto:lufang@ebay.com>>, "dhcwg@ietf.o=
rg<mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>" <dhcwg@ietf.org<mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
Cc: "draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf=
-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcere=
new-extensions@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@=
ietf.org>>, "Deepak Bansal (AZURE)" <dbansal@microsoft.com<mailto:dbansal@m=
icrosoft.com>>, Fabio Chiussi <fabiochiussi@gmail.com<mailto:fabiochiussi@g=
mail.com>>
Subject: RE: WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extensions f=
or DHCPv4

Thanks Luyuan.

So, at this point the next step is really to up to you ... seems to be:


1.       Wait until MSFT has implemented and see if that generates any addi=
tional changes to the document

2.       Initiate WGLC (either now or after 1 - perhaps waiting is best)

I do see that Section 2.3 discusses some potential work (as this alternativ=
e mechanism is not defined):

   Alternatively, a mechanism for the client to explicit inform the
   server that it is declining the server-initiated DHCPINFOFORCERENEW
   reconfiguration procedure needs to be devised.

It seems to me that this might be worth either removing? That 2.3 section a=
lso has an odd sentence (This further aligns the client behavior in DHCPv4 =
server-initiated reconfiguration with the corresponding behavior in DHCPv6.=
) as I don't recall any such capability in DHCPv6? In DHCPv6 a client can i=
ndicate whether it supports Reconfigure, but not which of the Reconfigure m=
essages (Renew, Rebind, or Information-Request).

And, an issue with #1 is that you'd have to pick a message number to use as=
 IANA won't have assigned a new one for the DHCPFORCEINFORENEW message (and=
 that could possible conflict if there was something else assigned in the i=
nterim, though I am not aware of anything.)


-          Bernie

From: Fang, Luyuan [mailto:lufang@ebay.com]
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 12:14 AM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com<mailto:volz@cisco.com>>; dhcwg@ietf.=
org<mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-=
dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org>; Deepak Bansal (AZURE) <dbansal@=
microsoft.com<mailto:dbansal@microsoft.com>>; Fabio Chiussi <fabiochiussi@g=
mail.com<mailto:fabiochiussi@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extensions f=
or DHCPv4

Hi Tomek and Bernie,

Thanks for presenting the draft in the last IETF and bring this to dhc wg d=
iscussion. Sorry for the delayed response.

Yes, we still have strong interests to complete this work. MSFT is working =
to implement it in Azure. We will report the results when ready.
At the meantime, we'll post a new version without content change.

Thanks,
Luyuan

From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com<mailto:volz@cisco.com>>
Date: Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 10:50 AM
To: "dhcwg@ietf.org<mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>" <dhcwg@ietf.org<mailto:dhcwg@ie=
tf.org>>
Cc: "draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf=
-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcere=
new-extensions@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@=
ietf.org>>
Subject: WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extensions for D=
HCPv4

Hi:

At the IETF-97 (Seoul) DHC WG meeting, Tomek had a brief presentation regar=
ding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions (see https://www.ietf.org/=
proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-next-steps-for-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-fo=
rcerenew-extensions-00.pdf).

This document has been inactive since WG adoption and has now expired. The =
co-chairs made several attempts to contact the authors, but they were unres=
ponsive. Tomek asked those in the room if there was any interest from someo=
ne to take on this work. There was no interest expressed, but we want to ta=
ke it to the WG mailing list to see if anyone has any interest.

If you do have interest in working on this, please contact the DHC WG chair=
s (dhc-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:dhc-chairs@ietf.org>).

You can view the current (expired) draft at https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra=
ft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-00.

If there is no interest, the document will just be left as it is today (exp=
ired). Work on it can always be revived sometime in the future if a need de=
velops.

Thanks.


-          Tomek & Bernie

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<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Thanks.<br>
<br>
- Bernie (from iPad)</div>
<div><br>
On Feb 10, 2017, at 12:29 AM, Fang, Luyuan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@eba=
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Bernie,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for your review and discussion. Sorry for =
the late reply.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">MSFT Azure is working to have an implementation in C=
Y17, we&#8217;ll wait a bit before WGLC.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regarding your comments for Section 2.3, good points=
, we removed both sentences in the updated version.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dh=
c-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-02">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-d=
hc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-02</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:black">&quot;Bernie Volz (volz)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:volz@cisco.com">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 9:09 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Fang, Luyuan&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@ebay.com">=
lufang@ebay.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensi=
ons@ietf.org">draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org</a>&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.or=
g">draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;Deepak Bansal (AZURE)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dbansal@microsoft.=
com">dbansal@microsoft.com</a>&gt;, Fabio Chiussi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fab=
iochiussi@gmail.com">fabiochiussi@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Exten=
sions for DHCPv4</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks Luyuan.</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So, at this point the =
next step is really to up to you &#8230; seems to be:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span st=
yle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Wait until MSFT h=
as implemented and see if that generates any additional changes to the docu=
ment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span st=
yle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Initiate WGLC (ei=
ther now or after 1 &#8211; perhaps waiting is best)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I do see that Section =
2.3 discusses some potential work (as this alternative mechanism is not def=
ined):</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Alternatively, a mechanism for th=
e client to explicit inform the</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; server that it is declining the s=
erver-initiated DHCPINFOFORCERENEW</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; reconfiguration procedure needs t=
o be devised.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It seems to me that th=
is might be worth either removing? That 2.3 section also has an odd sentenc=
e (This further aligns the client behavior in DHCPv4 server-initiated recon=
figuration with the corresponding behavior
 in DHCPv6.) as I don&#8217;t recall any such capability in DHCPv6? In DHCP=
v6 a client can indicate whether it supports Reconfigure, but not which of =
the Reconfigure messages (Renew, Rebind, or Information-Request).</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">And, an issue with #1 =
is that you&#8217;d have to pick a message number to use as IANA won&#8217;=
t have assigned a new one for the DHCPFORCEINFORENEW message (and that coul=
d possible conflict if there was something else
 assigned in the interim, though I am not aware of anything.)</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span sty=
le=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Bernie</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Fang, Luyuan [<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@=
ebay.com">mailto:lufang@ebay.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 02, 2016 12:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com">volz@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ie=
tf.org">
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org</a>; Deepak Bansal (AZ=
URE) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dbansal@microsoft.com">dbansal@microsoft.com</a>=
&gt;; Fabio Chiussi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fabiochiussi@gmail.com">fabiochiu=
ssi@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Exten=
sions for DHCPv4<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Tomek and Bernie,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for presenting the draft in the last IETF and=
 bring this to dhc wg discussion. Sorry for the delayed response.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, we still have strong interests to complete this=
 work. MSFT is working to implement it in Azure. We will report the results=
 when ready.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At the meantime, we&#8217;ll post a new version with=
out content change.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><spa=
n style=3D"color:black">&quot;Bernie Volz (volz)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:volz@cisco.com">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 10:50 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensi=
ons@ietf.org">draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org</a>&quot=
; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.or=
g">draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>WG meeting follow-up - Forcerenew Reconfiguration Extension=
s for DHCPv4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At the IETF-97 (Seoul) DHC WG meeting, <span class=
=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zekyz87z0z77zz71z">
Tomek had a brief presentation regarding draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-e=
xtensions (see
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-next-st=
eps-for-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-00.pdf">
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-next-steps-for-dra=
ft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-00.pdf</a>).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">This document has been inactive since WG adoption and has no=
w expired. The co-chairs made several attempts to contact the authors, but =
they were unresponsive. Tomek asked
 those in the room if there was any interest from someone to take on this w=
ork. There was no interest expressed, but we want to take it to the WG mail=
ing list to see if anyone has any interest.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">If you do have interest in working on this, please contact t=
he DHC WG chairs (<a href=3D"mailto:dhc-chairs@ietf.org">dhc-chairs@ietf.or=
g</a>).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">You can view the current (expired) draft at
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-ext=
ensions-00">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv4-forcerenew-extensions-00<=
/a>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">If there is no interest, the document will just be left as i=
t is today (expired). Work on it can always be revived sometime in the futu=
re if a need develops.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"author-a-lz69zz122zooz66zyz84zz83zeky=
z87z0z77zz71z">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo6"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span sty=
le=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Tomek &amp; Bernie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--_000_509D194F52D04E8B97C2C099201A59AFciscocom_--


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To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> DHCPv6 is then very light weight:
> - address assignment is not a part of the protocol,

How do you come to that idea ? The primary function of DHCP is to =
provide IP addresses.

> - address selection is not part of the protocol, and

Correct. The job of DHCP is to issue addresses - it can't know in =
advance what any client might want to use it for.

> - if the client, using its own logic to select from the offered =
addresses (not part of the protocol), does not select some or any, the =
protocol should not report that to the server, and

There can be multiple servers, and no client is obliged to accept an =
offer that doesn't meet it's requirements. For example, a VoIP phone =
might be configured to only accept an offer which includes options to =
configure the telephony aspects of the device.
It's not that uncommon to have two servers on a network - one "general =
IT" one, and one embedded in the PBX. The phones will only take leases =
from the PBX, and the PBX will ignore clients other than the phones.
The DHCP protocol specification cannot account for all such =
eventualities.

> - the fact that this kind of protocol can leave a device unreachable =
does not matter to the protocol that assigns the address.

"Doesn't matter" isn't the right way to describe it. That there are =
cases where things won't work is inherent in any general purpose =
protocol required to work in a flexible manner, with a wide range of =
network topologies and clients, etc.


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From: Andre Kostur <akostur@incognito.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:58:51 -0800
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To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
<dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:
> The last question:
> If REBIND offers a new address and the client decides not to use it, does the serer need to know that? Should the client send DECLINE or RELEASE?

That depends.  Did the client detect that the new address is in use by
another node?  DECLINE (s18.1.7).   Otherwise, RELEASE (s18.1.6).

-- 
Andre Kostur


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Hi, I have not reviewed this latest version of the draft but in my understa=
nding
from past discussions is that this mechanism always encrypts and there is n=
o
longer an "authentication-only" mode. That being the case, if this work is =
to go
forward the WG must first resurrect the Relay Agent Assignment Notification
(RAAN) draft:

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg17651.html

Otherwise, sedhcpv6 would be incompatible with Relays that must glean route
information during DHCPv6 PD exchanges.

Chairs - what do we need to do to make RAAN a working group item?

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ????
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 1:38 PM
> To: Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sed=
hcpv6-20.txt
>=20
> At Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:10:26 +0800,
> Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> > We have submitted a new version of secure DHCPv6. Thanks a lot for Bern=
ie's
> > valuable comment.
>=20
> I apologize for having been inactive on this draft, especially despite
> being listed as a coauthor.  I've finally found time to take a closer
> look at it.  I see the 20 version has been improved a lot; it's much
> more readable than (some of the) older versions and many of the
> technical questions I raised before seem to be addressed.  I
> personally think we still need to discuss and address some more
> technical details, but IMO this version is now much closer to WGLC.
>=20
> ...with one big reservation: I'd very much like to see at least one
> attempt of implementing the spec.  This is a quite complicated
> protocol specification, and no matter how hard we review the paper
> spec, I'm quite sure that an actual implementation attempt will find
> many more unclear points or protocol defects.  Although I understand
> that's not a requirement for a WGLC or even for an RFC (the spirit of
> "believing in running code" has been the thing of past at the IETF,
> sadly) but I still hope we won't end up shipping a protocol spec with
> full of defects mainly because there is not even an attempt of
> implementing it before publishing it.
>=20
> Specific comments on the 20 version follow.  There is one thing that I
> guess needs broader attention, so I'm noting it here: I think we need
> more discussion on the meaning and justification of "Non-SigAlg" and
> "Non-EncryAlg" (especially the latter).  See below for more details.
>=20
> - general: it's still not clear to me how we use this mechanism for
>   Reconfigure.
>=20
> - Section 1
>=20
>    [...]  Such communications are already protected using the
>    mechanism described in section 21.1 in [RFC3315].
>=20
>   Perhaps a better reference today would be
>   draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security.
>=20
> - Section 1
>=20
>    [...] The
>    Algorithm, Certificate, Signature, and Increasing-number options are
>    used for authentication.  The Encryption-Query message, Encryption-
>    Response message, Encrypted-message option and Encryption-Key-Tag
>    option are used for encryption.
>=20
>   I suspect this is not 100% accurate.  Except for the signature
>   option, everything can also be used for (or related to) encryption.
>=20
> - Section 5.3
>=20
>    [...]  The same client and server SHOULD use the
>    same algorithm in a single communication session.
>=20
>   Shouldn't this be a MUST?  Especially now that the client and the
>   server negotiate and fix a specific set of algorithms initially, I
>   don't see any possibility for an exception to this requirement.
>=20
> - Section 5.3
>=20
>    The sender can
>    offer a set of algorithms, and then the receiver selects one
>    algorithm for the future communication.
>=20
>   s/sender/client/ and s/receiver/server/.  Only the client offers an
>   algorithm set using the algorithm option.
>=20
> - Section 5.5: s/The One/One/
>=20
>    The One feasible environment in
>    an early deployment stage would be enterprise networks.
>=20
> - Section 5.5
>=20
>    In
>    enterprise networks, the client is manually pre-configured with the
>    trusted servers' public key and the server is also manually pre-
>    configured with the trusted clients' public keys.
>=20
>   I suggest s/is (also) manually/can (also) be manually/ since manual
>   configuration wouldn't be the absolute only option.
>=20
> - Section 6
>=20
>    And then the client first checks acknowledged hash, signature and
>    encryption algorithms that the server supports.  If the hash
>    algorithm field is zero, then it indicates that the hash algorithm is
>    fixed according to the corresponding signature algorithm.  The client
>    also uses the acknowledged algorithms in the return messages.
>=20
>   It's not clear to me from this text how the client checks the
>   algorithms.  By examining the certification option for the
>   signature/encryption algorithms and examining the signature option
>   for the hash ID?  If so, I think it should be clearly described.
>=20
>   I'd note that the signature ID in the certificate must be equal to
>   the signature ID of the signature option.  And, generalizing this,
>   what if the client doesn't support these algorithms? (This shouldn't
>   happen as long as the server handles the algorithm option correctly,
>   so this is basically a bug of the server implementation).
>=20
>   The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the
>   signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.  So
>   it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
>   signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.
>=20
> - Section 6: s/return/subsequent/
>=20
>    [...] The client
>    also uses the acknowledged algorithms in the return messages.
>=20
> - Section 6
>=20
>    The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the server, such as
>    Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option, Signature
>    option and Increasing-number option for client authentication.[...]
>    [...]  One and only one Increasing-number option SHOULD be
>    contained,
>=20
>   Isn't there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?
>=20
> - Section 6
>=20
>    [...] In this document, it is assumed
>    that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DHCPv6
>    configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
>    decryption.
>=20
>   I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks about
>   a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used:
>=20
>    If the client tries more than one cert for client authentication, the
>    server can easily get a client that implements this to enumerate its
>    entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a client that way.
>=20
>  Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?  If that's
>  the only reason for this limitation, I think we should address the
>  reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general specification
>  more flexible.
>=20
> - Section 7
>=20
>    [...] If it is the target server, according to
>    the Encryption-Key-Tag option, the server identifies the used public/
>    private key pair and decrypts the Encrypted-message option using the
>    corresponding private key.
>=20
>   The key tag is not necessarily unique for different public keys (so
>   different key pairs), even if it should normally be unique in
>   practice.  If multiple public keys share the same tag value, the
>   server MUST try all corresponding key pairs.
>=20
>   Also, since the key tag option isn't covered by a signature, it may
>   have been forged by an intermediate attacker.  We may want to
>   describe what the server should do in such a case (just discarding
>   it is probably okay as it's forged anyway, but the server could also
>   try all possible keys just in case the key tag is the only forged
>   field).
>=20
> - Section 7
>=20
>    The server validates the client's certificate through the local pre-
>    configured trusted certificates list.
>=20
>   I'm not sure if this paragraph covers the "opportunistic encryption"
>   mode, i.e, when the server doesn't know the certificate but chooses
>   to use it for encryption only.  (I'm assuming our intent is to
>   support such mode, right?).
>=20
> - Section 7
>=20
>    To provide
>    the replay protection, the Increasing-number option can be contained
>    in the encrypted DHCPv6 message.
>=20
>   Shouldn't this be either SHOULD or MUST to be consistent with other
>   part of this spec?  (see also the possible SHOULD vs MUST conflict
>   commented above).
>=20
> - Section 9.1
>=20
>    [...]  And the client can forget the increasing number
>    information after the transaction is finished.  The client's initial
>    locally stored increasing number is set to zero.
>=20
>   I'm not sure if I understand it and I'm not sure if it's okay
>   whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or always does?)
>   reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it sends to the server
>   at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?  Doesn't it lead to an
>   easy replay attack?  Or is the assumption that the server first
>   sends an error and the client will resend the message with an
>   adjusted increasing number?
>=20
> - Section 10.1.1
>=20
>                The mandatory encryption
>                algorithms MUST be included.
>=20
>   Which algorithm is it?
>=20
> - Section 10.1.2
>=20
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |      OPTION_CERTIFICATE       |         option-len            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |              EA-id            |            SA-id              |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                                                               |
>    .                           Certificate                         .
>    |                                                               |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=20
>   This seems to assume a single certificate (which I assume means a
>   single public key) can be used for both encryption and signature.
>   Is my understanding correct?  If so, can we always assume that?
>=20
> - Section 10.1.2
>=20
>    It should be noticed that the scenario where the values of EA-id and
>    SA-id are both 0 makes no sense and the client MUST discard a message
>    with such values.
>=20
>   The 0 EA-id/SA-id values are not described earlier in this
>   document.  I think it should explicitly define its semantics before
>   this text (perhaps in Section 10.1.1).
>=20
>   And, from the description of Section 12:
>=20
>          Non-SigAlg      |   0x00  | this document
>            Non-EncryAlg  |   0x00  | this document
>=20
>   I guess it means the signature is (effectively) not provided and the
>   message is (effectively) not encrypted, respectively.  If my
>   understanding is correct, is it okay to allow that, especially about
>   encryption?  I vaguely recall a discussion about someone hoping to
>   introduce a non-encryption mode, but I thought we rejected the idea
>   because it would be against the "always encrypt" consensus.
>=20
> - Section 10.1.5
>=20
>    encryption key tag  A variable length field containing the encryption
>       key tag sent from the client to server to identify the used
>       public/private key pair.  The encryption key tag is calculated
>       from the public key data, like fingerprint of a specific public
>       key.  How to generate the encryption key tag adopts the method
>       define in Appendix B in [RFC4034] and section 5.5 in [RFC6840].
>       The data of the public key is used as input of the generation
>       function.
>=20
>   If we derive the tag calculation from RFC4034, the length is not
>   variable: it's fixed to 16 bits.
>=20
>   Also, I don't think we have to mention RFC6840 section 5.5.  We'd
>   only use the method described in Appendix B of RFC4034 for
>   algorithms other than type 1.
>=20
>   And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don't think this
>   description is enough to actually calculate the tag value for a
>   given public key.  We should provide some more specific here.
>=20
> - Section 11
>=20
>    [RFC6273] has analyzed possible threats to the hash algorithms used
>    in SEND.  Since Secure DHCPv6 defined in this document uses the same
>    hash algorithms in similar way to SEND, analysis results could be
>    applied as well: [...]
>=20
>   Does this matter even when the hash value is in an encrypted
>   message?
>=20
> - Section 11
>=20
>   I think we should also discuss a few more security issues in this
>   section:
>   - Since the algorithm option isn't protected by a signature, the
>     list can be forged without detection, which can lead to a
>     downgrade attack.
>   - Likewise, since the Encryption-Key-Tag Option isn't protected, an
>     attacker that can intercept the message can forge the value
>     without detection (see also the relevant comment on Section 7).
>=20
> - Section 12
>=20
>    Hash Algorithm for Secure DHCPv6.  The values in this table are 8-bit
>    unsigned integers.
>=20
>   Shouldn't this be 16-bit?  It's defined as an 16-bit value for the
>   HA-id field of various options.  Same for the signature algorithm
>   and encryption algorithm.
>=20
> --
> JINMEI, Tatuya
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg



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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: dhcp-users <dhcp-users-bounces@lists.isc.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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From nobody Mon Feb 13 06:57:27 2017
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To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> PROBLEM STATEMENTS:
> - A network operator can set client IPv6 addresses on DHCPv6 server.

That is the primary function of the DHCP server ! I don't see that as a =
problem.

> An address can be invalid or make a client unreachable.

There are a lot of other ways to bo**ox up a network !
Such configurations may be deliberate. Until recently I did in fact run =
a network with unroutable (as in valid IP, but no router for that =
subnet) addresses because there was a policy decision that this =
particular network would be isolated - it was a backend network to carry =
traffic independently of the traffic on the public facing front end =
network.

> - A network operator can change an address prefix on a router. A =
client address can become unreachable

Ditto.
This is simply failing to co-ordinate network changes. Before =
removing/changing the prefix, the DHCP admin should have removed the =
pool IFF it is desired that the addresses be usable for external =
connectivity. As previously mentioned, this may be deliberate on the =
part of the Admin.

> - A default router offering a prefix to a client can become =
unreachable.

"Sh*t happens". Not only that, but what happens if the server hands out =
a load of IPv6 addresses which are all valid AT THE TIME OF ALLOCATION ? =
Even if your proposal were implemented, these addresses would be =
accepted and configured because they would be valid AT THE TIME OF =
ALLOCATION. The DHCP server and client cannot do anything about it if, =
say, 5 seconds into a 60 day lease, a router stops advertising a prefix =
appropriate to that address.

It would be for the OS to detect that situation, and simply stop using =
that address for outbound connections. IMO it would be inappropriate for =
all the clients to somehow tell the server that all these addresses are =
bad - only to have 20,000 clients all contact the server again a few =
minutes later when the router comes back up and the prefix becomes valid =
again. That would be designing in network instability.

> A client address can become unreachable on a local link=20

?

> - A client does not release unused addresses

So ? There's 2^64 addresses in a minimal IPv6 prefix. How many billion =
addresses do you intend using for each client ? Even if your 20,000 =
clients all took and held onto 1000 addresses each, that's still a tiny =
tiny fraction of the available addresses.



> - A client validates the addresses and the address prefixes and =
notifies DHCPv6 server about the problems

HOW ?
You will need to define the algorithm for validating addresses. So far =
you've only come up with "isn't on any prefix advertised by a router" =
(as above, not a valid test) and "in a deprecated prefix" (as mentioned =
in an earlier message, not a valid test).

You will also need to define a mechanism whereby all clients can have =
the algorithm updated as policies change - eg prefixes get deprecated =
(as previously discussed), new prefixes come into use (eg I assume you =
would expect currently unused prefixes to be rejected, but they could =
come into use at any time when it's considered that they are needed).
You will also need to define a mechanism for the local admins to =
over-ride the stock algorithm - eg where the admins have made a policy =
decision to run isolated networks. This introduces a catch-22 situation =
where new devices might not be configurable (they won't attach to the =
network) until they have been configured (policy edited to allow them to =
connect).

This is critical to your proposal - until you can come up with an easily =
defined, and robust, algorithm then your proposal CANNOT work. Worse, it =
may cause far more problems than it is supposed to solve.


> - A client returns unused addresses
> - DHCPv6 server:
>  -- logs error messages (invalid & unreachable addresses with device =
IDs)
>  -- does not assign the invalid addresses
>  -- periodically checks for the reachability of unreachable addresses =
and, when they become reachable, assigns them again

Define "valid" and "reachable" here ?
The implication from this and your earlier emails is that you define =
"reachable" as "has an IP which is routable to/from 'the internet'". See =
my comment above about running isolated networks, that backend isolated =
network runs a DHCP service - so the addresses on it are "reachable" in =
terms of "the DHCP server can reach them", but they aren't globally =
routable (they are actually RFC1918 IPv4 addresses, but the argument =
stands).
With a previous hat on, I had 2 Class C public IPv4 allocations which =
weren't globally routable.

There is also the issue that the server (in the general case) CANNOT =
determine the reachability/routability of any prefix. There are plenty =
of network topologies where the server may lose connectivity to =
"something" while clients don't, or vice-versa, while connectivity =
between server and client network is still working. Similarly, there are =
topologies while server-client comms could be lost, while both still =
have connectivity to "something". This is the reason that, out of the =
box, DHCP4 servers in failover do NOT automatically go into partner-down =
state when they lose connectivity between them.

> - An operator
> -- checks if there are unreachable devices and the reason codes

An alternative: The site/organisation admins take care to co-ordinate =
changes, and test changes in configuration. They should employ =
monitoring to detect issues, and respond appropriately to helpdesk =
tickets.
Configuration management (and especially automation) will detect many of =
the issues you've raised.


From nobody Mon Feb 13 07:28:49 2017
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From: Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 23:28:41 +0800
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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2017-02-09 5:38 GMT+08:00 =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide=
.ad.jp>:

> At Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:10:26 +0800,
> Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We have submitted a new version of secure DHCPv6. Thanks a lot for
> Bernie's
> > valuable comment.
>
> I apologize for having been inactive on this draft, especially despite
> being listed as a coauthor.  I've finally found time to take a closer
> look at it.  I see the 20 version has been improved a lot; it's much
> more readable than (some of the) older versions and many of the
> technical questions I raised before seem to be addressed.  I
> personally think we still need to discuss and address some more
> technical details, but IMO this version is now much closer to WGLC.
>
[LS]: Thanks a lot for your comments. As a coauthor, you have contributed
a lot and gave many valuable comments.

>
> ...with one big reservation: I'd very much like to see at least one
> attempt of implementing the spec.  This is a quite complicated
> protocol specification, and no matter how hard we review the paper
> spec, I'm quite sure that an actual implementation attempt will find
> many more unclear points or protocol defects.  Although I understand
> that's not a requirement for a WGLC or even for an RFC (the spirit of
> "believing in running code" has been the thing of past at the IETF,
> sadly) but I still hope we won't end up shipping a protocol spec with
> full of defects mainly because there is not even an attempt of
> implementing it before publishing it.
>
> Specific comments on the 20 version follow.  There is one thing that I
> guess needs broader attention, so I'm noting it here: I think we need
> more discussion on the meaning and justification of "Non-SigAlg" and
> "Non-EncryAlg" (especially the latter).  See below for more details.
>
> - general: it's still not clear to me how we use this mechanism for
>   Reconfigure.
>
[LS]: According to my understanding:
1. The server sends the encrypted Reconfigure message to the client;
2. If the Reconfigure option indicates the Renew message, then the client
sends the encrypted Renew message to the server. For this Encrypted-Query
message, it includes the server identifier option.
3. If the Reconfigure option indicates the Information-request message,
then
the client send the encrypted Information-request message to the server.
For this Encrypted-Query message, it does not include the server identifier
option. In this way, the Information message is received by all the servers
which
share the same certificate. If the client does not obtain the proper
parameters,
the client can choose other servers and sends the encrypted
information-request
message.


> - Section 6
>
>    And then the client first checks acknowledged hash, signature and
>    encryption algorithms that the server supports.  If the hash
>    algorithm field is zero, then it indicates that the hash algorithm is
>    fixed according to the corresponding signature algorithm.  The client
>    also uses the acknowledged algorithms in the return messages.
>
>   It's not clear to me from this text how the client checks the
>   algorithms.  By examining the certification option for the
>   signature/encryption algorithms and examining the signature option
>   for the hash ID?  If so, I think it should be clearly described.
>
[LS]: Yes. The signature and encryption algorithms are checked through
the certificate option. And the signature and hash algorithms are checked
through the signature option. And the signature algorithms id in the two
options must be equal. Will describe it more clearly.

>
>   I'd note that the signature ID in the certificate must be equal to
>   the signature ID of the signature option.  And, generalizing this,
>   what if the client doesn't support these algorithms? (This shouldn't
>   happen as long as the server handles the algorithm option correctly,
>   so this is basically a bug of the server implementation).
>
[LS]: For this error, then the client drops the Reply message.

>
>   The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the
>   signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.  So
>   it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
>   signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.
>
[LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are tightly
related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don't understand that
"it may be better to define the algorithm option so that signature/hash
algorithms are listed as pairs", Could you please explain it more clearly?


>
>
> - Section 6
>
>    The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the server, such as
>    Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option, Signature
>    option and Increasing-number option for client authentication.[...]
>    [...]  One and only one Increasing-number option SHOULD be
>    contained,
>
>   Isn't there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?
>
[LS]: The increasing-number option is optional, not must be contained.
In the before version of secure DHCPv6 without encryption, the timestamp
option is optional. But in fact, I don't know why it is optional.

>
> - Section 6
>
>    [...] In this document, it is assumed
>    that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DHCPv6
>    configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
>    decryption.
>
>   I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks about
>   a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used:
>
>    If the client tries more than one cert for client authentication, the
>    server can easily get a client that implements this to enumerate its
>    entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a client that way.
>
>  Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?  If that's
>  the only reason for this limitation, I think we should address the
>  reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general specification
>  more flexible.
>
[LS]: So we deletes the description in section 11.

>
> - Section 7
>
>    [...] If it is the target server, according to
>    the Encryption-Key-Tag option, the server identifies the used public/
>    private key pair and decrypts the Encrypted-message option using the
>    corresponding private key.
>
>   The key tag is not necessarily unique for different public keys (so
>   different key pairs), even if it should normally be unique in
>   practice.  If multiple public keys share the same tag value, the
>   server MUST try all corresponding key pairs.
>
[LS]: Got it. Will modify the related sentences.

>
>   Also, since the key tag option isn't covered by a signature, it may
>   have been forged by an intermediate attacker.  We may want to
>   describe what the server should do in such a case (just discarding
>   it is probably okay as it's forged anyway, but the server could also
>   try all possible keys just in case the key tag is the only forged
>   field).
>
[LS]: If the server then tries all the possible keys, then it is easy to
cause the attack to the server. So I think it is better to just drop it,
like
the action of decryption fail.
So we need to add the following text for this case.
If the server cannot find the corresponding private key of the key tag
or the corresponding private key of the key tag is invalid for decryption,
then the server drops the Encrypted-Query message

>
> - Section 7
>
>    The server validates the client's certificate through the local pre-
>    configured trusted certificates list.
>
>   I'm not sure if this paragraph covers the "opportunistic encryption"
>   mode, i.e, when the server doesn't know the certificate but chooses
>   to use it for encryption only.  (I'm assuming our intent is to
>   support such mode, right?).
>
[LS]: Yes, will add some description about it.

>
> - Section 7
>
>    To provide
>    the replay protection, the Increasing-number option can be contained
>    in the encrypted DHCPv6 message.
>
>   Shouldn't this be either SHOULD or MUST to be consistent with other
>   part of this spec?  (see also the possible SHOULD vs MUST conflict
>   commented above).
>
[LS]: The increasing-number option is optional.

>
> - Section 9.1
>
>    [...]  And the client can forget the increasing number
>    information after the transaction is finished.  The client's initial
>    locally stored increasing number is set to zero.
>
>   I'm not sure if I understand it and I'm not sure if it's okay
>   whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or always does?)
>   reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it sends to the server
>   at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?  Doesn't it lead to an
>   easy replay attack?  Or is the assumption that the server first
>   sends an error and the client will resend the message with an
>   adjusted increasing number?
>
[LS]: For the first received increasing-number option, the client cannot
check it and just need to change the local increasing number into the
received number. So for this purpose, i add the above statement.
Looking forward to your further guidance.

>
> - Section 10.1.1
>
>                The mandatory encryption
>                algorithms MUST be included.
>
>   Which algorithm is it?
>
[LS]: The mandatory encryption algorithm is RSA. How about the following
text:
The mandatory encryption algorithm, such as RSA, MUST be included.

>
> - Section 10.1.2
>
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |      OPTION_CERTIFICATE       |         option-len            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |              EA-id            |            SA-id              |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                                                               |
>    .                           Certificate                         .
>    |                                                               |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>   This seems to assume a single certificate (which I assume means a
>   single public key) can be used for both encryption and signature.
>   Is my understanding correct?  If so, can we always assume that?
>
[LS]: Yes, it means a single certificate and a single public key.
If EA-id =3D 0 & SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for signature.
If EA-id !=3D 0 & SA-id =3D0, then the public key is used for encryption.
If EA-id !=3D 0 & SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for signature an=
d
encryption.

>
> - Section 10.1.2
>
>    It should be noticed that the scenario where the values of EA-id and
>    SA-id are both 0 makes no sense and the client MUST discard a message
>    with such values.
>
>   The 0 EA-id/SA-id values are not described earlier in this
>   document.  I think it should explicitly define its semantics before
>   this text (perhaps in Section 10.1.1).
>
[LS]: Agree, will add some description before it.

>
>   And, from the description of Section 12:
>
>          Non-SigAlg      |   0x00  | this document
>            Non-EncryAlg  |   0x00  | this document
>
>   I guess it means the signature is (effectively) not provided and the
>   message is (effectively) not encrypted, respectively.  If my
>   understanding is correct, is it okay to allow that, especially about
>   encryption?  I vaguely recall a discussion about someone hoping to
>   introduce a non-encryption mode, but I thought we rejected the idea
>   because it would be against the "always encrypt" consensus.
>
[LS]: Sorry for the not clear expression.
In the before part, if the EA-id is set to zero, then the certificate is
not used
for encryption. If the SA-id is set to zero, then the certificate is not
used for
signature.

>
> - Section 10.1.5
>
>    encryption key tag  A variable length field containing the encryption
>       key tag sent from the client to server to identify the used
>       public/private key pair.  The encryption key tag is calculated
>       from the public key data, like fingerprint of a specific public
>       key.  How to generate the encryption key tag adopts the method
>       define in Appendix B in [RFC4034] and section 5.5 in [RFC6840].
>       The data of the public key is used as input of the generation
>       function.
>
>   If we derive the tag calculation from RFC4034, the length is not
>   variable: it's fixed to 16 bits.
>
[LS]: Will modify it to 16 bits

>
>   Also, I don't think we have to mention RFC6840 section 5.5.  We'd
>   only use the method described in Appendix B of RFC4034 for
>   algorithms other than type 1.
>
[LS]: Got it.

>
>   And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don't think this
>   description is enough to actually calculate the tag value for a
>   given public key.  We should provide some more specific here.
>
[LS]: Add some more specific text about how to compute it?
In the before, I prepared some text about it.
 Key Tag Calculation

The Encryption Key Tag in the Encrypted-Query message provides a mechanism
for selecting
the corresponding private key for decryption. In most cases, the encryption
key tag
can efficiently identify a private key record. The Encryption Key Tag
option can
be used to help select the corresponding private key when more than one
candidate
private key is available.

However, it is essential to note that the encryption key tag is not a
unique identifier.
It is theoretically possible for two different public keys to share one
common encryption
key tag. The encryption key tag is used to limit the possible candidate
keys, bu it
does not uniquely identify a public/private key pair. Implements MUST NOT
assume that
the key tag uniquelly identifier a public/private key pair.

The encryption key tag is the same for all encryption algorithm types
except algorithm
1 (please see Appendix A.1 for the defination of the key tag for algorithm
1). The key
tag generation algorithm is the sum of the public key data broken into 2
octet groups.
First, the public key date is treated as a series of 2 octet groups. These
groups are
then added together.

A reference implementation of the key tag algorithm is as the below
function, with the
data of the public key is used as input. It is not necessary to use the
following
reference code verbatim, but the numerical value fo teh encryption key tag
MUST be
identical to what the referencr implementation would generate for the same
input.

The following reference implementation calculates the value of the
encryption key tag.
This reference implementation applies to all algorithm types except
algorithm 1 (see
Appendix A.1). The input is the data of the public key. The code is written
for clarity,
not efficiency.

/*
    * Assumes that int is at least 16 bits.
    * First octet of the key tag is the most significant 8 bits of the
    * return value;
    * Second octet of the key tag is the least significant 8 bits of the
    * return value.
    */

   unsigned int
   keytag (
           unsigned char key[],  /* the RDATA part of the DNSKEY RR */
           unsigned int keysize  /* the RDLENGTH */
          )
   {
           unsigned long ac;     /* assumed to be 32 bits or larger */
           int i;                /* loop index */

           for ( ac =3D 0, i =3D 0; i < keysize; ++i )
                   ac +=3D (i & 1) ? key[i] : key[i] << 8;
           ac +=3D (ac >> 16) & 0xFFFF;
           return ac & 0xFFFF;
   }

   A.1.  Key Tag for Algorithm 1 (RSA/MD5)

   The encryption key tag for algorithm 1 (RSA/MD5) is defined differently
from
   the encryption key tag for all other algorithms, for historical
reasons.  For a
   public key with algorithm 1, the encryption key tag is defined to be the
most
   significant 16 bits of the least significant 24 bits in the public key
modulus
   (in other words, the 4th to last and 3rd to last octets of the public
key modulus).


> - Section 11
>
>    [RFC6273] has analyzed possible threats to the hash algorithms used
>    in SEND.  Since Secure DHCPv6 defined in this document uses the same
>    hash algorithms in similar way to SEND, analysis results could be
>    applied as well: [...]
>
>   Does this matter even when the hash value is in an encrypted
>   message?
>
[LS]: Got it. Will delete it.

>
> - Section 11
>
>   I think we should also discuss a few more security issues in this
>   section:
>   - Since the algorithm option isn't protected by a signature, the
>     list can be forged without detection, which can lead to a
>     downgrade attack.
>   - Likewise, since the Encryption-Key-Tag Option isn't protected, an
>     attacker that can intercept the message can forge the value
>     without detection (see also the relevant comment on Section 7).
>
[LS]: Agree. Will add it.

>
> - Section 12
>
>    Hash Algorithm for Secure DHCPv6.  The values in this table are 8-bit
>    unsigned integers.
>
>   Shouldn't this be 16-bit?  It's defined as an 16-bit value for the
>   HA-id field of various options.  Same for the signature algorithm
>   and encryption algorithm.
>
[LS]: Will modify it.

Thanks again,
Lishan

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<div dir=3D"ltr">2017-02-09 5:38 GMT+08:00 =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=
=93=89 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D=
"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;</span>:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);=
border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">At Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:10:26 +080=
0,<br>
<span class=3D"gmail-m_-2832346651458099801m_3003666906580084943gmail-">Lis=
han Li &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lilishan48@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lilish=
an48@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; We have submitted a new version of secure DHCPv6. Thanks a lot for Ber=
nie&#39;s<br>
&gt; valuable comment.<br>
<br>
</span>I apologize for having been inactive on this draft, especially despi=
te<br>
being listed as a coauthor.=C2=A0 I&#39;ve finally found time to take a clo=
ser<br>
look at it.=C2=A0 I see the 20 version has been improved a lot; it&#39;s mu=
ch<br>
more readable than (some of the) older versions and many of the<br>
technical questions I raised before seem to be addressed.=C2=A0 I<br>
personally think we still need to discuss and address some more<br>
technical details, but IMO this version is now much closer to WGLC.<br></bl=
ockquote><div>[LS]: Thanks a lot for your comments. As a coauthor, you have=
 contributed</div><div>a lot and gave many valuable comments.</div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-wid=
th:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
<br>
...with one big reservation: I&#39;d very much like to see at least one<br>
attempt of implementing the spec.=C2=A0 This is a quite complicated<br>
protocol specification, and no matter how hard we review the paper<br>
spec, I&#39;m quite sure that an actual implementation attempt will find<br=
>
many more unclear points or protocol defects.=C2=A0 Although I understand<b=
r>
that&#39;s not a requirement for a WGLC or even for an RFC (the spirit of<b=
r>
&quot;believing in running code&quot; has been the thing of past at the IET=
F,<br>
sadly) but I still hope we won&#39;t end up shipping a protocol spec with<b=
r>
full of defects mainly because there is not even an attempt of<br>
implementing it before publishing it.<br>
<br>
Specific comments on the 20 version follow.=C2=A0 There is one thing that I=
<br>
guess needs broader attention, so I&#39;m noting it here: I think we need<b=
r>
more discussion on the meaning and justification of &quot;Non-SigAlg&quot; =
and<br>
&quot;Non-EncryAlg&quot; (especially the latter).=C2=A0 See below for more =
details.<br>
<br>
- general: it&#39;s still not clear to me how we use this mechanism for<br>
=C2=A0 Reconfigure.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: According to my understandin=
g:</div><div>1. The server sends the encrypted Reconfigure message to the c=
lient;</div><div>2. If the Reconfigure option indicates the Renew message, =
then the client=C2=A0</div><div>sends the encrypted Renew message to the se=
rver. For this Encrypted-Query</div><div>message, it includes the server id=
entifier option.</div><div>3. If the Reconfigure option indicates the Infor=
mation-request message, then=C2=A0</div><div>the client send the encrypted =
Information-request message to the server.=C2=A0</div><div>For this Encrypt=
ed-Query message, it does not include the server identifier=C2=A0</div><div=
>option. In this way, the Information message is received by all the server=
s which=C2=A0</div><div>share the same certificate. If the client does not =
obtain the proper parameters,=C2=A0</div><div>the client can choose other s=
ervers and sends the encrypted information-request</div><div>message.</div>=
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
- Section 6<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0And then the client first checks acknowledged hash, signature =
and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encryption algorithms that the server supports.=C2=A0 If the h=
ash<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0algorithm field is zero, then it indicates that the hash algor=
ithm is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fixed according to the corresponding signature algorithm.=C2=
=A0 The client<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0also uses the acknowledged algorithms in the return messages.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 It&#39;s not clear to me from this text how the client checks the<br=
>
=C2=A0 algorithms.=C2=A0 By examining the certification option for the<br>
=C2=A0 signature/encryption algorithms and examining the signature option<b=
r>
=C2=A0 for the hash ID?=C2=A0 If so, I think it should be clearly described=
.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Yes. The signature and encryption algorithms a=
re checked through=C2=A0</div><div>the certificate option. And the signatur=
e and hash algorithms are checked</div><div>through the signature option. A=
nd the signature algorithms id in the two=C2=A0</div><div>options must be e=
qual. Will describe it more clearly.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 I&#39;d note that the signature ID in the certificate must be equal =
to<br>
=C2=A0 the signature ID of the signature option.=C2=A0 And, generalizing th=
is,<br>
=C2=A0 what if the client doesn&#39;t support these algorithms? (This shoul=
dn&#39;t<br>
=C2=A0 happen as long as the server handles the algorithm option correctly,=
<br>
=C2=A0 so this is basically a bug of the server implementation).<br></block=
quote><div>[LS]: For this error, then the client drops the Reply message.=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the<br=
>
=C2=A0 signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.=C2=A0=
 So<br>
=C2=A0 it may be better to define the algorithm option so that<br>
=C2=A0 signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.<br></blockquote><div>=
[LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are tightly=C2=
=A0</div><div>related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don&#39;t unders=
tand that=C2=A0</div><div>&quot;it may be better to define the algorithm op=
tion so that signature/hash</div><div>algorithms are listed as pairs&quot;,=
 Could you please explain it more clearly?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex"><br>
<br>
- Section 6<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the server, s=
uch as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option, Signatur=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0option and Increasing-number option for client authentication.=
[...]<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[...]=C2=A0 One and only one Increasing-number option SHOULD b=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0contained,<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Isn&#39;t there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?<br></blockquote><div=
>[LS]: The increasing-number option is optional, not must be contained.=C2=
=A0</div><div>In the before version of secure DHCPv6 without encryption, th=
e timestamp</div><div>option is optional. But in fact, I don&#39;t know why=
 it is optional.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bor=
der-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 6<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[...] In this document, it is assumed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DH=
CPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0configuration.=C2=A0 So, the corresponding private key is used=
 for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0decryption.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I&#39;m not sure if this is okay.=C2=A0 And, in fact, Section 11 tal=
ks about<br>
=C2=A0 a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used:=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0If the client tries more than one cert for client authenticati=
on, the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0server can easily get a client that implements this to enumera=
te its<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a client that =
way.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?=C2=A0 If th=
at&#39;s<br>
=C2=A0the only reason for this limitation, I think we should address the<br=
>
=C2=A0reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general specification=
<br>
=C2=A0more flexible.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: So we deletes the descripti=
on in section 11.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,2=
04);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 7<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[...] If it is the target server, according to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the Encryption-Key-Tag option, the server identifies the used =
public/<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0private key pair and decrypts the Encrypted-message option usi=
ng the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0corresponding private key.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 The key tag is not necessarily unique for different public keys (so<=
br>
=C2=A0 different key pairs), even if it should normally be unique in<br>
=C2=A0 practice.=C2=A0 If multiple public keys share the same tag value, th=
e<br>
=C2=A0 server MUST try all corresponding key pairs.<br></blockquote><div>[L=
S]: Got it. Will modify the related sentences.</div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-l=
eft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 Also, since the key tag option isn&#39;t covered by a signature, it =
may<br>
=C2=A0 have been forged by an intermediate attacker.=C2=A0 We may want to<b=
r>
=C2=A0 describe what the server should do in such a case (just discarding<b=
r>
=C2=A0 it is probably okay as it&#39;s forged anyway, but the server could =
also<br>
=C2=A0 try all possible keys just in case the key tag is the only forged<br=
>
=C2=A0 field).<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: If the server then tries all the =
possible keys, then it is easy to=C2=A0</div><div>cause the attack to the s=
erver. So I think it is better to just drop it, like=C2=A0</div><div>the ac=
tion of decryption fail.</div><div>So we need to add the following text for=
 this case.</div><div>If the server cannot find the corresponding private k=
ey of the key tag</div><div>or the corresponding private key of the key tag=
 is invalid for decryption,=C2=A0</div><div>then the server drops the Encry=
pted-Query message</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 7<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The server validates the client&#39;s certificate through the =
local pre-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0configured trusted certificates list.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I&#39;m not sure if this paragraph covers the &quot;opportunistic en=
cryption&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 mode, i.e, when the server doesn&#39;t know the certificate but choo=
ses<br>
=C2=A0 to use it for encryption only.=C2=A0 (I&#39;m assuming our intent is=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 support such mode, right?).<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Yes, will add=
 some description about it.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 7<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0To provide<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the replay protection, the Increasing-number option can be con=
tained<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the encrypted DHCPv6 message.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Shouldn&#39;t this be either SHOULD or MUST to be consistent with ot=
her<br>
=C2=A0 part of this spec?=C2=A0 (see also the possible SHOULD vs MUST confl=
ict<br>
=C2=A0 commented above).<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: The increasing-number o=
ption is optional.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,=
204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 9.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[...]=C2=A0 And the client can forget the increasing number<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0information after the transaction is finished.=C2=A0 The clien=
t&#39;s initial<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0locally stored increasing number is set to zero.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I&#39;m not sure if I understand it and I&#39;m not sure if it&#39;s=
 okay<br>
=C2=A0 whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or always does?)<=
br>
=C2=A0 reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it sends to the server=
<br>
=C2=A0 at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?=C2=A0 Doesn&#39;t it lead =
to an<br>
=C2=A0 easy replay attack?=C2=A0 Or is the assumption that the server first=
<br>
=C2=A0 sends an error and the client will resend the message with an<br>
=C2=A0 adjusted increasing number?<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: For the first=
 received increasing-number option, the client cannot</div><div>check it an=
d just need to change the local increasing number into the=C2=A0</div><div>=
received number. So for this purpose, i add the above statement.=C2=A0</div=
><div>Looking forward to your further guidance.=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>
<br>
- Section 10.1.1<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The mandatory encryp=
tion<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0algorithms MUST be i=
ncluded.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Which algorithm is it?<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: The mandatory encr=
yption algorithm is RSA. How about the following=C2=A0</div><div>text:</div=
><div>The mandatory encryption algorithm, such as RSA, MUST be included. =
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 10.1.2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A03<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0=
 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+<wbr>-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OPTION_CERTIFICATE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0option-len=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+<wbr>-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 EA-id=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 SA-id=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+<wbr>-+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Certificate=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+<wbr>-+-+-+<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 This seems to assume a single certificate (which I assume means a<br=
>
=C2=A0 single public key) can be used for both encryption and signature.<br=
>
=C2=A0 Is my understanding correct?=C2=A0 If so, can we always assume that?=
<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Yes, it means a single certificate and a single=
 public key.=C2=A0</div><div>If EA-id =3D 0 &amp; SA-id !=3D0, then the pub=
lic key is used for signature.</div><div>If EA-id !=3D 0 &amp; SA-id =3D0, =
then the public key is used for encryption.<br></div><div>If EA-id !=3D 0 &=
amp; SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for signature and encryption.=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-sty=
le:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 10.1.2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It should be noticed that the scenario where the values of EA-=
id and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SA-id are both 0 makes no sense and the client MUST discard a =
message<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with such values.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 The 0 EA-id/SA-id values are not described earlier in this<br>
=C2=A0 document.=C2=A0 I think it should explicitly define its semantics be=
fore<br>
=C2=A0 this text (perhaps in Section 10.1.1).<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Ag=
ree, will add some description before it.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 And, from the description of Section 12:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Non-SigAlg=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =
=C2=A00x00=C2=A0 | this document<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Non-EncryAlg=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A00=
x00=C2=A0 | this document<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I guess it means the signature is (effectively) not provided and the=
<br>
=C2=A0 message is (effectively) not encrypted, respectively.=C2=A0 If my<br=
>
=C2=A0 understanding is correct, is it okay to allow that, especially about=
<br>
=C2=A0 encryption?=C2=A0 I vaguely recall a discussion about someone hoping=
 to<br>
=C2=A0 introduce a non-encryption mode, but I thought we rejected the idea<=
br>
=C2=A0 because it would be against the &quot;always encrypt&quot; consensus=
.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Sorry for the not clear expression.=C2=A0</div=
><div>In the before part, if the EA-id is set to zero, then the certificate=
 is not used</div><div>for encryption. If the SA-id is set to zero, then th=
e certificate is not used for=C2=A0</div><div>signature. =C2=A0</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-w=
idth:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 10.1.5<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encryption key tag=C2=A0 A variable length field containing th=
e encryption<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key tag sent from the client to server to identify the=
 used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 public/private key pair.=C2=A0 The encryption key tag =
is calculated<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the public key data, like fingerprint of a specif=
ic public<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key.=C2=A0 How to generate the encryption key tag adop=
ts the method<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 define in Appendix B in [RFC4034] and section 5.5 in [=
RFC6840].<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The data of the public key is used as input of the gen=
eration<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 function.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 If we derive the tag calculation from RFC4034, the length is not<br>
=C2=A0 variable: it&#39;s fixed to 16 bits.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Will=
 modify it to 16 bits=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 Also, I don&#39;t think we have to mention RFC6840 section 5.5.=C2=
=A0 We&#39;d<br>
=C2=A0 only use the method described in Appendix B of RFC4034 for<br>
=C2=A0 algorithms other than type 1.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Got it.=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-styl=
e:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don&#39;t think thi=
s<br>
=C2=A0 description is enough to actually calculate the tag value for a<br>
=C2=A0 given public key.=C2=A0 We should provide some more specific here.<b=
r></blockquote><div>[LS]: Add some more specific text about how to compute =
it?</div><div>In the before, I prepared some text about it.</div><div>=C2=
=A0Key Tag Calculation</div><div><br></div><div>The Encryption Key Tag in t=
he Encrypted-Query message provides a mechanism for selecting=C2=A0</div><d=
iv>the corresponding private key for decryption. In most cases, the encrypt=
ion key tag=C2=A0</div><div>can efficiently identify a private key record. =
The Encryption Key Tag option can=C2=A0</div><div>be used to help select th=
e corresponding private key when more than one candidate</div><div>private =
key is available.</div><div><br></div><div>However, it is essential to note=
 that the encryption key tag is not a unique identifier.</div><div>It is th=
eoretically possible for two different public keys to share one common encr=
yption</div><div>key tag. The encryption key tag is used to limit the possi=
ble candidate keys, bu it=C2=A0</div><div>does not uniquely identify a publ=
ic/private key pair. Implements MUST NOT assume that=C2=A0</div><div>the ke=
y tag uniquelly identifier a public/private key pair.</div><div><br></div><=
div>The encryption key tag is the same for all encryption algorithm types e=
xcept algorithm</div><div>1 (please see Appendix A.1 for the defination of =
the key tag for algorithm 1). The key</div><div>tag generation algorithm is=
 the sum of the public key data broken into 2 octet groups.=C2=A0</div><div=
>First, the public key date is treated as a series of 2 octet groups. These=
 groups are</div><div>then added together.</div><div><br></div><div>A refer=
ence implementation of the key tag algorithm is as the below function, with=
 the=C2=A0</div><div>data of the public key is used as input. It is not nec=
essary to use the following=C2=A0</div><div>reference code verbatim, but th=
e numerical value fo teh encryption key tag MUST be=C2=A0</div><div>identic=
al to what the referencr implementation would generate for the same input.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>The following reference implementation calculates =
the value of the encryption key tag.</div><div>This reference implementatio=
n applies to all algorithm types except algorithm 1 (see</div><div>Appendix=
 A.1). The input is the data of the public key. The code is written for cla=
rity,</div><div>not efficiency.</div><div><br></div><div>/*</div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 * Assumes that int is at least 16 bits.</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
* First octet of the key tag is the most significant 8 bits of the</div><di=
v>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 * return value;</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 * Second octet of t=
he key tag is the least significant 8 bits of the</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *=
 return value.</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 */</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0unsigned int</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0keytag (</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unsigned char key[], =C2=A0/* the RDATA part of =
the DNSKEY RR */</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unsigne=
d int keysize =C2=A0/* the RDLENGTH */</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 )</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0{</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0unsigned long ac; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /* assumed to be 32 bits or l=
arger */</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0int i; =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/* loop index */</div><div>=
<br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for ( ac =3D 0, i =
=3D 0; i &lt; keysize; ++i )</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ac +=3D (i &amp; 1) ? key[i] : key[i] &lt=
;&lt; 8;</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ac +=3D (ac &gt=
;&gt; 16) &amp; 0xFFFF;</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
return ac &amp; 0xFFFF;</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0}</div><div><br></div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A.1.=C2=A0 Key Tag for Algorithm 1 (RSA/MD5)</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The encryption key tag for algorithm 1 (RSA/MD5) is de=
fined differently from=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the encryption key tag =
for all other algorithms, for historical reasons.=C2=A0 For a</div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0public key with algorithm 1, the encryption key tag is defined to=
 be the most</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0significant 16 bits of the least signif=
icant 24 bits in the public key modulus=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0(in ot=
her words, the 4th to last and 3rd to last octets of the public key modulus=
).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 11<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC6273] has analyzed possible threats to the hash algorithms=
 used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in SEND.=C2=A0 Since Secure DHCPv6 defined in this document us=
es the same<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0hash algorithms in similar way to SEND, analysis results could=
 be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0applied as well: [...]<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Does this matter even when the hash value is in an encrypted<br>
=C2=A0 message?<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Got it. Will delete it.=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
- Section 11<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 I think we should also discuss a few more security issues in this<br=
>
=C2=A0 section:<br>
=C2=A0 - Since the algorithm option isn&#39;t protected by a signature, the=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 list can be forged without detection, which can lead to a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 downgrade attack.<br>
=C2=A0 - Likewise, since the Encryption-Key-Tag Option isn&#39;t protected,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 attacker that can intercept the message can forge the value<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 without detection (see also the relevant comment on Section 7=
).<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Agree. Will add it.=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px=
;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1e=
x">
<br>
- Section 12<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hash Algorithm for Secure DHCPv6.=C2=A0 The values in this tab=
le are 8-bit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0unsigned integers.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 Shouldn&#39;t this be 16-bit?=C2=A0 It&#39;s defined as an 16-bit va=
lue for the<br>
=C2=A0 HA-id field of various options.=C2=A0 Same for the signature algorit=
hm<br>
=C2=A0 and encryption algorithm.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Will modify it.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again,</div><div>Lishan=C2=A0</div></div><=
br></div></div>

--001a11406f743376e505486b1a00--


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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Simon Hobson <dhcp1@thehobsons.co.uk>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "dhcp-users@lists.isc.org" <dhcp-users@lists.isc.org>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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I would like to get more feedback from DHCPv6 users. Preferably, to priorit=
ize the list below. What would be the number one priority item from this li=
st that DHCPv6 users would like to address?

Thanks,
Dusan

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Hobson
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:57 AM
To: dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

"Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:

> PROBLEM STATEMENTS:
> - A network operator can set client IPv6 addresses on DHCPv6 server.

That is the primary function of the DHCP server ! I don't see that as a pro=
blem.

> An address can be invalid or make a client unreachable.

There are a lot of other ways to bo**ox up a network !
Such configurations may be deliberate. Until recently I did in fact run a n=
etwork with unroutable (as in valid IP, but no router for that subnet) addr=
esses because there was a policy decision that this particular network woul=
d be isolated - it was a backend network to carry traffic independently of =
the traffic on the public facing front end network.

> - A network operator can change an address prefix on a router. A client a=
ddress can become unreachable

Ditto.
This is simply failing to co-ordinate network changes. Before removing/chan=
ging the prefix, the DHCP admin should have removed the pool IFF it is desi=
red that the addresses be usable for external connectivity. As previously m=
entioned, this may be deliberate on the part of the Admin.

> - A default router offering a prefix to a client can become unreachable.

"Sh*t happens". Not only that, but what happens if the server hands out a l=
oad of IPv6 addresses which are all valid AT THE TIME OF ALLOCATION ? Even =
if your proposal were implemented, these addresses would be accepted and co=
nfigured because they would be valid AT THE TIME OF ALLOCATION. The DHCP se=
rver and client cannot do anything about it if, say, 5 seconds into a 60 da=
y lease, a router stops advertising a prefix appropriate to that address.

It would be for the OS to detect that situation, and simply stop using that=
 address for outbound connections. IMO it would be inappropriate for all th=
e clients to somehow tell the server that all these addresses are bad - onl=
y to have 20,000 clients all contact the server again a few minutes later w=
hen the router comes back up and the prefix becomes valid again. That would=
 be designing in network instability.

> A client address can become unreachable on a local link=20

?

> - A client does not release unused addresses

So ? There's 2^64 addresses in a minimal IPv6 prefix. How many billion addr=
esses do you intend using for each client ? Even if your 20,000 clients all=
 took and held onto 1000 addresses each, that's still a tiny tiny fraction =
of the available addresses.



> - A client validates the addresses and the address prefixes and notifies =
DHCPv6 server about the problems

HOW ?
You will need to define the algorithm for validating addresses. So far you'=
ve only come up with "isn't on any prefix advertised by a router" (as above=
, not a valid test) and "in a deprecated prefix" (as mentioned in an earlie=
r message, not a valid test).

You will also need to define a mechanism whereby all clients can have the a=
lgorithm updated as policies change - eg prefixes get deprecated (as previo=
usly discussed), new prefixes come into use (eg I assume you would expect c=
urrently unused prefixes to be rejected, but they could come into use at an=
y time when it's considered that they are needed).
You will also need to define a mechanism for the local admins to over-ride =
the stock algorithm - eg where the admins have made a policy decision to ru=
n isolated networks. This introduces a catch-22 situation where new devices=
 might not be configurable (they won't attach to the network) until they ha=
ve been configured (policy edited to allow them to connect).

This is critical to your proposal - until you can come up with an easily de=
fined, and robust, algorithm then your proposal CANNOT work. Worse, it may =
cause far more problems than it is supposed to solve.


> - A client returns unused addresses
> - DHCPv6 server:
>  -- logs error messages (invalid & unreachable addresses with device IDs)
>  -- does not assign the invalid addresses
>  -- periodically checks for the reachability of unreachable addresses and=
, when they become reachable, assigns them again

Define "valid" and "reachable" here ?
The implication from this and your earlier emails is that you define "reach=
able" as "has an IP which is routable to/from 'the internet'". See my comme=
nt above about running isolated networks, that backend isolated network run=
s a DHCP service - so the addresses on it are "reachable" in terms of "the =
DHCP server can reach them", but they aren't globally routable (they are ac=
tually RFC1918 IPv4 addresses, but the argument stands).
With a previous hat on, I had 2 Class C public IPv4 allocations which weren=
't globally routable.

There is also the issue that the server (in the general case) CANNOT determ=
ine the reachability/routability of any prefix. There are plenty of network=
 topologies where the server may lose connectivity to "something" while cli=
ents don't, or vice-versa, while connectivity between server and client net=
work is still working. Similarly, there are topologies while server-client =
comms could be lost, while both still have connectivity to "something". Thi=
s is the reason that, out of the box, DHCP4 servers in failover do NOT auto=
matically go into partner-down state when they lose connectivity between th=
em.

> - An operator
> -- checks if there are unreachable devices and the reason codes

An alternative: The site/organisation admins take care to co-ordinate chang=
es, and test changes in configuration. They should employ monitoring to det=
ect issues, and respond appropriately to helpdesk tickets.
Configuration management (and especially automation) will detect many of th=
e issues you've raised.

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
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-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dus=
an)
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:02 AM
To: dhcp-users; dhcwg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

Thanks to DHCWG group for their comments. I believe the proposals would ben=
efit DHCv6 users.

For the record:

PROBLEM STATEMENTS:
- A network operator can set client IPv6 addresses on DHCPv6 server. An add=
ress can be invalid or make a client unreachable.
- A network operator can change an address prefix on a router. A client add=
ress can become unreachable
- A default router offering a prefix to a client can become unreachable. A =
client address can become unreachable on a local link
- A client does not release unused addresses

PROPOSED FAILURE INDICATIONS
- A client validates the addresses and the address prefixes and notifies DH=
CPv6 server about the problems
- A client returns unused addresses
- DHCPv6 server:
  -- logs error messages (invalid & unreachable addresses with device IDs)
  -- does not assign the invalid addresses
  -- periodically checks for the reachability of unreachable addresses and,=
 when they become reachable, assigns them again
- An operator
 -- checks if there are unreachable devices and the reason codes __________=
_____________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
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s=3D2J3Xq9IQVsoMl7JTQP52olq6E_tc1b6kLGRuJ0RnkWE&e=3D


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To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA194E5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C51D2F05-A721-4629-844C-4B6227F138A0@thehobsons.co.uk> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA19659@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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On Feb 13, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com> =
wrote:
> I would like to get more feedback from DHCPv6 users. Preferably, to =
prioritize the list below. What would be the number one priority item =
from this list that DHCPv6 users would like to address?

You have gotten as much feedback as you're likely to get on the working =
group mailing list.   As far as I can tell, the feedback is that none of =
the things you've listed are priorities, and for good reason.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 13, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com" class=3D"">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">I would like to get more feedback from DHCPv6 =
users. Preferably, to prioritize the list below. What would be the =
number one priority item from this list that DHCPv6 users would like to =
address?</span><br style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">You =
have gotten as much feedback as you're likely to get on the working =
group mailing list. &nbsp; As far as I can tell, the feedback is that =
none of the things you've listed are priorities, and for good =
reason.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Mon Feb 13 13:26:33 2017
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From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AQHShi47VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kaFncoOQ
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 21:26:25 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA194E5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C51D2F05-A721-4629-844C-4B6227F138A0@thehobsons.co.uk> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA19659@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <ECE71773-29E9-4FF0-B685-51628CFCDD25@fugue.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "dhcp-users@lists.isc.org" <dhcp-users@lists.isc.org>, Simon Hobson <dhcp1@thehobsons.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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Anyone else that would benefit from a list of devices (their MAC addresses)=
 with assigned IPv6 addresses that are not valid or are unreachable?

Dusan

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 2:20 PM
To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
Cc: Simon Hobson; dhcwg; dhcp-users@lists.isc.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition

On Feb 13, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) <dmudric@avaya.com<mail=
to:dmudric@avaya.com>> wrote:
I would like to get more feedback from DHCPv6 users. Preferably, to priorit=
ize the list below. What would be the number one priority item from this li=
st that DHCPv6 users would like to address?

You have gotten as much feedback as you're likely to get on the working gro=
up mailing list.   As far as I can tell, the feedback is that none of the t=
hings you've listed are priorities, and for good reason.


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Anyone else that would be=
nefit from a list of devices (their MAC addresses) with assigned IPv6 addre=
sses that are not valid or are unreachable?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dusan<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497=
D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Ted Lemo=
n [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 13, 2017 2:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Simon Hobson; dhcwg; dhcp-users@lists.isc.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 13, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Me=
nlo-Regular&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">I would like to get more feedback from=
 DHCPv6 users. Preferably, to prioritize the list below. What would be the =
number one priority item from this list that DHCPv6 users
 would like to address?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You have gotten as much feedback as you're likely to=
 get on the working group mailing list. &nbsp; As far as I can tell, the fe=
edback is that none of the things you've listed are priorities, and for goo=
d reason.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Mon Feb 13 15:37:02 2017
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From: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?sei/7MXCKE5ldHdvcmsgSW5ub3ZhdGlvbiBQcm9qZWMp?= <utae.kim@kt.com>
To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
Thread-Index: AdKCVGJ7VzCckicuS8ujStD5DUW3kQAAXlQAAADH2iAAAEJQgAAATJqQAAClqeAAH3aUcAAClxKAAAGY9gD///saAIAADr9w//9PnQCAAAvYgIAAALWAgAABlgCAAACTgIAABP0AgAAFJgCAAAESAIAAAJWAgAAB4ICAAACZAIAAAlcAgAAJ8gCAAWNTgIAAHtAAgAAMpICAADIegIAABaeAgAAR9gCAAARFgIAAAouAgAQx3QCAAA9YgIAAEaKAgAA35oCAACMxgP//RZ8Q
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 23:35:02 +0000
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References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA194E5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <C51D2F05-A721-4629-844C-4B6227F138A0@thehobsons.co.uk> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA19659@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <ECE71773-29E9-4FF0-B685-51628CFCDD25@fugue.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457AA197FD@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, "dhcp-users@lists.isc.org" <dhcp-users@lists.isc.org>, Simon Hobson <dhcp1@thehobsons.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">I think IPv6 is co-existed with IPv4 for a while.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">Devices have dual stack with IPv4 and IPv6 address.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">And there are cases that traces the problem with IPv4 &amp; IPv6 add=
ress information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">But, now there have no common key between them.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">So, I think IPv6 information is included with device mac address for=
 tracing IPv4.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D">Utae.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"word-break:break-hangul"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Malgun Gothic&quot;;color:#1=
F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017 6:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ted Lemon<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dhcwg; dhcp-users@lists.isc.org; Simon Hobson<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Anyone els=
e that would benefit from a list of devices (their MAC addresses) with assi=
gned IPv6 addresses that are not valid or are unreachable?<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dusan<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Ted Lemon [<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com">mailto=
:mellon@fugue.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 13, 2017 2:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Simon Hobson; dhcwg; <a href=3D"mailto:dhcp-users@lists.isc.org"=
>dhcp-users@lists.isc.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Feb 13, 2017, at 11:00 AM, M=
udric, Dusan (Dusan) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dmudric@avaya.com">dmudric@avaya=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Menlo-Regular&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">I would like to get mor=
e feedback from DHCPv6 users. Preferably, to prioritize the list below. Wha=
t would be the number one priority item from this list that
 DHCPv6 users would like to address?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">You have gotten as much feedbac=
k as you're likely to get on the working group mailing list. &nbsp; As far =
as I can tell, the feedback is that none of the things you've listed are pr=
iorities, and for good reason.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
&nbsp;<br>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
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I do not think any of those statements are problems, or are problems
that should be solved with any changes to the DHCPv6 protocol.

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 04:00:23PM +0000, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) wrote:
> I would like to get more feedback from DHCPv6 users. Preferably, to prioritize the list below. What would be the number one priority item from this list that DHCPv6 users would like to address?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dusan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Hobson
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:57 AM
> To: dhcwg
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
> 
> "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" <dmudric@avaya.com> wrote:
> 
> > PROBLEM STATEMENTS:
> > - A network operator can set client IPv6 addresses on DHCPv6 server.
> 
> That is the primary function of the DHCP server ! I don't see that as a problem.
> 
> > An address can be invalid or make a client unreachable.
> 
> There are a lot of other ways to bo**ox up a network !
> Such configurations may be deliberate. Until recently I did in fact run a network with unroutable (as in valid IP, but no router for that subnet) addresses because there was a policy decision that this particular network would be isolated - it was a backend network to carry traffic independently of the traffic on the public facing front end network.
> 
> > - A network operator can change an address prefix on a router. A client address can become unreachable
> 
> Ditto.
> This is simply failing to co-ordinate network changes. Before removing/changing the prefix, the DHCP admin should have removed the pool IFF it is desired that the addresses be usable for external connectivity. As previously mentioned, this may be deliberate on the part of the Admin.
> 
> > - A default router offering a prefix to a client can become unreachable.
> 
> "Sh*t happens". Not only that, but what happens if the server hands out a load of IPv6 addresses which are all valid AT THE TIME OF ALLOCATION ? Even if your proposal were implemented, these addresses would be accepted and configured because they would be valid AT THE TIME OF ALLOCATION. The DHCP server and client cannot do anything about it if, say, 5 seconds into a 60 day lease, a router stops advertising a prefix appropriate to that address.
> 
> It would be for the OS to detect that situation, and simply stop using that address for outbound connections. IMO it would be inappropriate for all the clients to somehow tell the server that all these addresses are bad - only to have 20,000 clients all contact the server again a few minutes later when the router comes back up and the prefix becomes valid again. That would be designing in network instability.
> 
> > A client address can become unreachable on a local link 
> 
> ?
> 
> > - A client does not release unused addresses
> 
> So ? There's 2^64 addresses in a minimal IPv6 prefix. How many billion addresses do you intend using for each client ? Even if your 20,000 clients all took and held onto 1000 addresses each, that's still a tiny tiny fraction of the available addresses.
> 
> 
> 
> > - A client validates the addresses and the address prefixes and notifies DHCPv6 server about the problems
> 
> HOW ?
> You will need to define the algorithm for validating addresses. So far you've only come up with "isn't on any prefix advertised by a router" (as above, not a valid test) and "in a deprecated prefix" (as mentioned in an earlier message, not a valid test).
> 
> You will also need to define a mechanism whereby all clients can have the algorithm updated as policies change - eg prefixes get deprecated (as previously discussed), new prefixes come into use (eg I assume you would expect currently unused prefixes to be rejected, but they could come into use at any time when it's considered that they are needed).
> You will also need to define a mechanism for the local admins to over-ride the stock algorithm - eg where the admins have made a policy decision to run isolated networks. This introduces a catch-22 situation where new devices might not be configurable (they won't attach to the network) until they have been configured (policy edited to allow them to connect).
> 
> This is critical to your proposal - until you can come up with an easily defined, and robust, algorithm then your proposal CANNOT work. Worse, it may cause far more problems than it is supposed to solve.
> 
> 
> > - A client returns unused addresses
> > - DHCPv6 server:
> >  -- logs error messages (invalid & unreachable addresses with device IDs)
> >  -- does not assign the invalid addresses
> >  -- periodically checks for the reachability of unreachable addresses and, when they become reachable, assigns them again
> 
> Define "valid" and "reachable" here ?
> The implication from this and your earlier emails is that you define "reachable" as "has an IP which is routable to/from 'the internet'". See my comment above about running isolated networks, that backend isolated network runs a DHCP service - so the addresses on it are "reachable" in terms of "the DHCP server can reach them", but they aren't globally routable (they are actually RFC1918 IPv4 addresses, but the argument stands).
> With a previous hat on, I had 2 Class C public IPv4 allocations which weren't globally routable.
> 
> There is also the issue that the server (in the general case) CANNOT determine the reachability/routability of any prefix. There are plenty of network topologies where the server may lose connectivity to "something" while clients don't, or vice-versa, while connectivity between server and client network is still working. Similarly, there are topologies while server-client comms could be lost, while both still have connectivity to "something". This is the reason that, out of the box, DHCP4 servers in failover do NOT automatically go into partner-down state when they lose connectivity between them.
> 
> > - An operator
> > -- checks if there are unreachable devices and the reason codes
> 
> An alternative: The site/organisation admins take care to co-ordinate changes, and test changes in configuration. They should employ monitoring to detect issues, and respond appropriately to helpdesk tickets.
> Configuration management (and especially automation) will detect many of the issues you've raised.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_dhcwg&d=DQICAg&c=BFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=UT3Bk9cbLeaJxhf3iCrhIoUWB8YLZU23029sMQGQ2kY&m=-9s7e0Ks0EQLldj5oI4E9zLJKH-0ehGNzPg6r665zKo&s=yZV16lh2Yih0GhvVieDz2J5SHShPy-iKWBYCkGKJkSo&e= 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:02 AM
> To: dhcp-users; dhcwg
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] RFC3315 DECLINE definition
> 
> Thanks to DHCWG group for their comments. I believe the proposals would benefit DHCv6 users.
> 
> For the record:
> 
> PROBLEM STATEMENTS:
> - A network operator can set client IPv6 addresses on DHCPv6 server. An address can be invalid or make a client unreachable.
> - A network operator can change an address prefix on a router. A client address can become unreachable
> - A default router offering a prefix to a client can become unreachable. A client address can become unreachable on a local link
> - A client does not release unused addresses
> 
> PROPOSED FAILURE INDICATIONS
> - A client validates the addresses and the address prefixes and notifies DHCPv6 server about the problems
> - A client returns unused addresses
> - DHCPv6 server:
>   -- logs error messages (invalid & unreachable addresses with device IDs)
>   -- does not assign the invalid addresses
>   -- periodically checks for the reachability of unreachable addresses and, when they become reachable, assigns them again
> - An operator
>  -- checks if there are unreachable devices and the reason codes _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_dhcwg&d=DQICAg&c=BFpWQw8bsuKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=UT3Bk9cbLeaJxhf3iCrhIoUWB8YLZU23029sMQGQ2kY&m=Qxk02ZIjaVguViwH6GFfRlZ1P5VOsYQOjA3jNkynsoA&s=2J3Xq9IQVsoMl7JTQP52olq6E_tc1b6kLGRuJ0RnkWE&e=


From nobody Tue Feb 14 11:38:26 2017
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From: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] IETF-98 Coordinated Address Space Management (CASM) BoF
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dhc WG participants may be interested in the Coordinated Address Space =
Management (CASM) BoF: https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/

Topic mailing list: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/casm

- Ralph


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At Mon, 13 Feb 2017 23:28:41 +0800,
Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:

> > - general: it's still not clear to me how we use this mechanism for
> >   Reconfigure.
> >
> [LS]: According to my understanding:
> 1. The server sends the encrypted Reconfigure message to the client;

Encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response message?  If so, with setting
transaction-id to 0 (like Reconfigure itself)?  And is the client
supposed to try to decrypt it when transaction-id is 0 even if it
doesn't match any outstanding Encrypted-Query it has sent?  And in
that case which private key should the client use?  (For the last
question, see also the comment on the assumption of the number of
client certificate described in Section 6).

I think these questions and issues can be addressed relatively easily,
but I believe these should be clearly and explicitly described.

> >   The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the
> >   signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.  So
> >   it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
> >   signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.
> >
> [LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are tightly
> related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don't understand that
> "it may be better to define the algorithm option so that signature/hash
> algorithms are listed as pairs", Could you please explain it more clearly?

For example, instead of listing SA-id List and HA-id List separately,
we might have unified SA-id List:

   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |      OPTION_ALGORITHM         |         option-len            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   .                          EA-id List                           .
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   .                          SA-id List                           .
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
(no "HA-id List" in this level)

and each entry of SA-id List has two sub fields: signature algorithm
ID and hash algorithm ID:

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|           SA-len              |            SA-id[1]           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|           HA-id[1]            |            SA-id[2]           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|           HA-id[2]            | ...
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|           SA-id[n]            |            SA-id[n]           |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

and each pair of (SA-id[i], HA-id[i]) will be considered to specify a
specific signature method.

> > - Section 6
> >
> >    The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the server, such as
> >    Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option, Signature
> >    option and Increasing-number option for client authentication.[...]
> >    [...]  One and only one Increasing-number option SHOULD be
> >    contained,
> >
> >   Isn't there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?
> >
> [LS]: The increasing-number option is optional, not must be contained.
> In the before version of secure DHCPv6 without encryption, the timestamp
> option is optional. But in fact, I don't know why it is optional.

This doesn't address my question...

> > - Section 6
> >
> >    [...] In this document, it is assumed
> >    that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DHCPv6
> >    configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
> >    decryption.
> >
> >   I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks about
> >   a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used:
> >
> >    If the client tries more than one cert for client authentication, the
> >    server can easily get a client that implements this to enumerate its
> >    entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a client that way.
> >
> >  Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?  If that's
> >  the only reason for this limitation, I think we should address the
> >  reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general specification
> >  more flexible.
> >
> [LS]: So we deletes the description in section 11.

I don't understand how this addresses the comment...

> > - Section 9.1
> >
> >    [...]  And the client can forget the increasing number
> >    information after the transaction is finished.  The client's initial
> >    locally stored increasing number is set to zero.
> >
> >   I'm not sure if I understand it and I'm not sure if it's okay
> >   whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or always does?)
> >   reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it sends to the server
> >   at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?  Doesn't it lead to an
> >   easy replay attack?  Or is the assumption that the server first
> >   sends an error and the client will resend the message with an
> >   adjusted increasing number?
> >
> [LS]: For the first received increasing-number option, the client cannot
> check it and just need to change the local increasing number into the
> received number. So for this purpose, i add the above statement.
> Looking forward to your further guidance.

I'd suggest consulting Ted here, as I guess the introduction of
increasing-number option was originally his idea.

> > - Section 10.1.1
> >
> >                The mandatory encryption
> >                algorithms MUST be included.
> >
> >   Which algorithm is it?
> >
> [LS]: The mandatory encryption algorithm is RSA. How about the following
> text:
> The mandatory encryption algorithm, such as RSA, MUST be included.

I don' know why "such as".  I'd consider a particular algorithm(s)
mandatory at the time of this document, and it/they should be
explicitly defined here.

> > - Section 10.1.2
> >
> >     0                   1                   2                   3
> >     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >    |      OPTION_CERTIFICATE       |         option-len            |
> >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >    |              EA-id            |            SA-id              |
> >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >    |                                                               |
> >    .                           Certificate                         .
> >    |                                                               |
> >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >
> >   This seems to assume a single certificate (which I assume means a
> >   single public key) can be used for both encryption and signature.
> >   Is my understanding correct?  If so, can we always assume that?
> >
> [LS]: Yes, it means a single certificate and a single public key.
> If EA-id = 0 & SA-id !=0, then the public key is used for signature.
> If EA-id != 0 & SA-id =0, then the public key is used for encryption.
> If EA-id != 0 & SA-id !=0, then the public key is used for signature and
> encryption.

Ah, so if we want to use different algorithms and/or keys for
signature and encryption, we have two certificate options, each
setting EA-id or SA-id to 0?  If so, I suggest explaining it
explicitly.

> >   And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don't think this
> >   description is enough to actually calculate the tag value for a
> >   given public key.  We should provide some more specific here.
> >
> [LS]: Add some more specific text about how to compute it?
> In the before, I prepared some text about it.
>  Key Tag Calculation

I've not read the entire text, but it looked like a bit too verbose.
I'll see if I can offer some specific text.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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Subject: [dhcwg] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: (with COMMENT)
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Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: No Objection

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The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm okay with the reasoning for the security considerations section, but
think it might be good if a general reference for security of DHCP was
listed as well.  Since an older RFC is referenced, any references from
that one might be out-of-date.



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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:36:53 +0800
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: (with COMMENT)
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--001a113f52d0a5ebfc05488966d5
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Hi Kathleen,

Thank you for the review, please see inline.

Cheers,
Tianxiang

2017-02-15 6:18 GMT+08:00 Kathleen Moriarty <
Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>:

> Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-
> prefix-length-hint-issue/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm okay with the reasoning for the security considerations section, but
> think it might be good if a general reference for security of DHCP was
> listed as well.  Since an older RFC is referenced, any references from
> that one might be out-of-date.
>

[Tianxiang] Thanks for pointing that out, we could add a sentence
referencing RFC 3315 for security considerations in DHCP. However, as I
understand both RFC 3633 and 3315 would be obsoleted
by draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis once it's approved, should we add reference to
3315bis instead? My current proposal is as follow:

OLD:
This document introduces no new security considerations over those already
discussed in section 15 of RFC3633, as this document provides guidance on
how the clients and servers interact with regard to the prefix-length hint
mechanism introduced in RFC3633.

NEW:
This document provides guidance on how the clients and servers interact
with regard to the DHCPv6 prefix-length hint mechanism. Security
considerations in DHCP are described in section 23 of RFC 3315. Security
considerations regarding DHCPv6 prefix delegation are described in section
15 of RFC 3633.

--001a113f52d0a5ebfc05488966d5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Kathleen,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the review, =
please see inline.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tianxiang</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-02-15 6:18=
 GMT+08:00 Kathleen Moriarty <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Kathle=
en.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Ka=
thleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-<wbr>length-hint-issue-05: No Objection<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/<=
wbr>statement/discuss-criteria.<wbr>html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-le=
ngth-hint-issue/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-<wbr>prefix-length-hint-issue/</a><=
br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
COMMENT:<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
<br>
I&#39;m okay with the reasoning for the security considerations section, bu=
t<br>
think it might be good if a general reference for security of DHCP was<br>
listed as well.=C2=A0 Since an older RFC is referenced, any references from=
<br>
that one might be out-of-date.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Tianxia=
ng] Thanks for pointing that out, we could add a sentence referencing RFC 3=
315 for security considerations in DHCP. However, as I understand both RFC =
3633 and 3315 would be obsoleted by=C2=A0draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis once it&=
#39;s approved, should we add reference to 3315bis instead? My current prop=
osal is as follow:</div><div><br></div><div>OLD:=C2=A0</div><div>This docum=
ent introduces no new security considerations over those already discussed =
in section 15 of RFC3633, as this document provides guidance on how the cli=
ents and servers interact with regard to the prefix-length hint mechanism i=
ntroduced in RFC3633.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>NEW:=C2=A0</div><div>T=
his document provides guidance on how the clients and servers interact with=
 regard to the DHCPv6 prefix-length hint mechanism. Security considerations=
 in DHCP are described in section 23 of RFC 3315. Security considerations r=
egarding DHCPv6 prefix delegation are described in section 15 of RFC 3633.<=
/div></div><br></div></div>

--001a113f52d0a5ebfc05488966d5--


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Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it would make sense if this doc updates RFC 3633 because someone
who (newly) implements RFC 3633 should really also read this document and
hance needs this pointer.

Also, I would move section 3.6 to the beginning but that doesn't really
matter.



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2017-02-15 5:20 GMT+08:00 =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide=
.ad.jp>:

> At Mon, 13 Feb 2017 23:28:41 +0800,
> Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > - general: it's still not clear to me how we use this mechanism for
> > >   Reconfigure.
> > >
> > [LS]: According to my understanding:
> > 1. The server sends the encrypted Reconfigure message to the client;
>
> Encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response message?  If so, with setting
> transaction-id to 0 (like Reconfigure itself)?  And is the client
> supposed to try to decrypt it when transaction-id is 0 even if it
> doesn't match any outstanding Encrypted-Query it has sent?  And in
> that case which private key should the client use?  (For the last
> question, see also the comment on the assumption of the number of
> client certificate described in Section 6).
>
> I think these questions and issues can be addressed relatively easily,
> but I believe these should be clearly and explicitly described.
>
[LS]: How about the following method:
The transaction-id of the Encrypted-Reponse message MUST be equal with the
transaction-id of the received Encrypted-Query message and cannot be zero.
In this way, the client will try to decrypt it.

>
> > >   The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the
> > >   signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.  So
> > >   it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
> > >   signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.
> > >
> > [LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are tightly
> > related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don't understand that
> > "it may be better to define the algorithm option so that signature/hash
> > algorithms are listed as pairs", Could you please explain it more
> clearly?
>
> For example, instead of listing SA-id List and HA-id List separately,
> we might have unified SA-id List:
>
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |      OPTION_ALGORITHM         |         option-len            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    .                          EA-id List                           .
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    .                          SA-id List                           .
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> (no "HA-id List" in this level)
>
> and each entry of SA-id List has two sub fields: signature algorithm
> ID and hash algorithm ID:
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |           SA-len              |            SA-id[1]           |
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |           HA-id[1]            |            SA-id[2]           |
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |           HA-id[2]            | ...
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |           SA-id[n]            |            SA-id[n]           |
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
> and each pair of (SA-id[i], HA-id[i]) will be considered to specify a
> specific signature method.
>
[LS]: So, for every SA-id, there is a corresponding HA-id or multiple
HA-id(s).
SA-id and HA-id are set to a pair. Right?


> > > - Section 6
> > >
> > >    The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the server, such =
as
> > >    Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option, Signature
> > >    option and Increasing-number option for client authentication.[...=
]
> > >    [...]  One and only one Increasing-number option SHOULD be
> > >    contained,
> > >
> > >   Isn't there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?
> > >
> > [LS]: The increasing-number option is optional, not must be contained.
> > In the before version of secure DHCPv6 without encryption, the timestam=
p
> > option is optional. But in fact, I don't know why it is optional.
>
> This doesn't address my question...
>
[LS]: Sorry. Will correct it.

>
> > > - Section 6
> > >
> > >    [...] In this document, it is assumed
> > >    that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DHCPv6
> > >    configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
> > >    decryption.
> > >
> > >   I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks about
> > >   a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used=
:
>
[LS]: We have discussed this issues before.
In most cases, a client will not uses multiple certificate(s) for the
encrypted DHCPv6 configuration process in the same time. Please see the
following reasons:
After the client authentication, the client will use the public key in the
certificate option for encryption. The server only knows one client's
public key for encryption. And the client will also only uses one private
key for decryption. So there is no cases that the client will use one key
pair for the encryption of some DHCPv6 messages and use another key pair
for the encryption of another DHCPv6 messages.

> > >
> > >    If the client tries more than one cert for client authentication,
> the
> > >    server can easily get a client that implements this to enumerate i=
ts
> > >    entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a client that way.
> > >
> > >  Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?

[LS]: No, this is not designed for the encrypted Reconfigure. This is
different from the above issue.
We consider the scenario where the client has multiple certs. In the
authentication process, if one cert of the client fails, the client may
send another cert for authentication. But once the authentication
successes, then the client and server will only uses the authenticated
public key for encryption.

> If that's
> > >  the only reason for this limitation, I think we should address the
> > >  reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general specificatio=
n
> > >  more flexible.

> >
> > [LS]: So we deletes the description in section 11.
>
> I don't understand how this addresses the comment...


> > > - Section 9.1
> > >
> > >    [...]  And the client can forget the increasing number
> > >    information after the transaction is finished.  The client's initi=
al
> > >    locally stored increasing number is set to zero.
> > >
> > >   I'm not sure if I understand it and I'm not sure if it's okay
> > >   whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or always does?)
> > >   reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it sends to the serve=
r
> > >   at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?  Doesn't it lead to an
> > >   easy replay attack?  Or is the assumption that the server first
> > >   sends an error and the client will resend the message with an
> > >   adjusted increasing number?
> > >
> > [LS]: For the first received increasing-number option, the client canno=
t
> > check it and just need to change the local increasing number into the
> > received number. So for this purpose, i add the above statement.
> > Looking forward to your further guidance.
>
> I'd suggest consulting Ted here, as I guess the introduction of
> increasing-number option was originally his idea.
>
[LS]: Will send another email to Ted for his comment.

>
> > > - Section 10.1.1
> > >
> > >                The mandatory encryption
> > >                algorithms MUST be included.
> > >
> > >   Which algorithm is it?
> > >
> > [LS]: The mandatory encryption algorithm is RSA. How about the followin=
g
> > text:
> > The mandatory encryption algorithm, such as RSA, MUST be included.
>
> I don' know why "such as".  I'd consider a particular algorithm(s)
> mandatory at the time of this document, and it/they should be
> explicitly defined here.

[LS]: Got it.

>
> > > - Section 10.1.2
> > >
> > >     0                   1                   2                   3
> > >     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> > >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >    |      OPTION_CERTIFICATE       |         option-len            |
> > >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >    |              EA-id            |            SA-id              |
> > >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >    |                                                               |
> > >    .                           Certificate                         .
> > >    |                                                               |
> > >    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > >
> > >   This seems to assume a single certificate (which I assume means a
> > >   single public key) can be used for both encryption and signature.
> > >   Is my understanding correct?  If so, can we always assume that?
> > >
> > [LS]: Yes, it means a single certificate and a single public key.
> > If EA-id =3D 0 & SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for signature=
.
> > If EA-id !=3D 0 & SA-id =3D0, then the public key is used for encryptio=
n.
> > If EA-id !=3D 0 & SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for signatur=
e and
> > encryption.
>
> Ah, so if we want to use different algorithms and/or keys for
> signature and encryption, we have two certificate options, each
> setting EA-id or SA-id to 0?  If so, I suggest explaining it
> explicitly.
>
[LS]: Yes. Will explain it more clearly.

>
> > >   And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don't think this
> > >   description is enough to actually calculate the tag value for a
> > >   given public key.  We should provide some more specific here.
> > >
> > [LS]: Add some more specific text about how to compute it?
> > In the before, I prepared some text about it.
> >  Key Tag Calculation
>
> I've not read the entire text, but it looked like a bit too verbose.
> I'll see if I can offer some specific text.
>
[LS]: Agree. Looking forward to your contributed text.

--001a11417c781c5a3c0548903b87
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<div dir=3D"ltr">2017-02-15 5:20 GMT+08:00 =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=
=93=89 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D=
"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;</span>:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">At Mon, 13 Feb 2017=
 23:28:41 +0800,<br>
<span class=3D"">Lishan Li &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lilishan48@gmail.com">lili=
shan48@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt; - general: it&#39;s still not clear to me how we use this mechani=
sm for<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Reconfigure.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: According to my understanding:<br>
&gt; 1. The server sends the encrypted Reconfigure message to the client;<b=
r>
<br>
</span>Encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response message?=C2=A0 If so, with set=
ting<br>
transaction-id to 0 (like Reconfigure itself)?=C2=A0 And is the client<br>
supposed to try to decrypt it when transaction-id is 0 even if it<br>
doesn&#39;t match any outstanding Encrypted-Query it has sent?=C2=A0 And in=
<br>
that case which private key should the client use?=C2=A0 (For the last<br>
question, see also the comment on the assumption of the number of<br>
client certificate described in Section 6).<br>
<br>
I think these questions and issues can be addressed relatively easily,<br>
but I believe these should be clearly and explicitly described.<br></blockq=
uote><div>[LS]: How about the following method:</div><div>The transaction-i=
d of the Encrypted-Reponse message MUST be equal with the transaction-id of=
 the received Encrypted-Query message and cannot be zero. In this way, the =
client will try to decrypt it.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to=
 suggest the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in =
practice.=C2=A0 So<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0it may be better to define the algorithm option so th=
at<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are tightly=
<br>
&gt; related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don&#39;t understand that=
<br>
&gt; &quot;it may be better to define the algorithm option so that signatur=
e/hash<br>
&gt; algorithms are listed as pairs&quot;, Could you please explain it more=
 clearly?<br>
<br>
</span>For example, instead of listing SA-id List and HA-id List separately=
,<br>
we might have unified SA-id List:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OPTION_ALGORITHM=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0option-len=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 EA-id List=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SA-id List=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
(no &quot;HA-id List&quot; in this level)<br>
<br>
and each entry of SA-id List has two sub fields: signature algorithm<br>
ID and hash algorithm ID:<br>
<br>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+=
<br>
|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SA-len=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SA-id[1]=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+=
<br>
|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0HA-id[1]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SA-id[2]=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+=
<br>
|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0HA-id[2]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | ...<br>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+=
<br>
|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SA-id[n]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SA-id[n]=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+=
<br>
<br>
and each pair of (SA-id[i], HA-id[i]) will be considered to specify a<br>
specific signature method.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: So, for every SA-id, =
there is a corresponding HA-id or multiple HA-id(s).</div><div>SA-id and HA=
-id are set to a pair. Right?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; - Section 6<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The first DHCPv6 message sent from the client to the=
 server, such as<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Solicit message, MUST contain the Certificate option=
, Signature<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 option and Increasing-number option for client authe=
ntication.[...]<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]=C2=A0 One and only one Increasing-number optio=
n SHOULD be<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 contained,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Isn&#39;t there a MUST vs SHOULD conflict here?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: The increasing-number option is optional, not must be contained.=
<br>
&gt; In the before version of secure DHCPv6 without encryption, the timesta=
mp<br>
&gt; option is optional. But in fact, I don&#39;t know why it is optional.<=
br>
<br>
</span>This doesn&#39;t address my question...<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: S=
orry. Will correct it.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; - Section 6<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...] In this document, it is assumed<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that the client uses only one certificate for the en=
crypted DHCPv6<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration.=C2=A0 So, the corresponding private k=
ey is used for<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 decryption.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;m not sure if this is okay.=C2=A0 And, in fact,=
 Section 11 talks about<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certific=
ates) are used:<br></span></blockquote><div>[LS]: We have discussed this is=
sues before.=C2=A0</div><div>In most cases, a client will not uses multiple=
 certificate(s) for the encrypted DHCPv6 configuration process in the same =
time. Please see the following reasons:</div><div>After the client authenti=
cation, the client will use the public key in the certificate option for en=
cryption. The server only knows one client&#39;s public key for encryption.=
 And the client will also only uses one private key for decryption. So ther=
e is no cases that the client will use one key pair for the encryption of s=
ome DHCPv6 messages and use another key pair for the encryption of another =
DHCPv6 messages.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""=
>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the client tries more than one cert for client au=
thentication, the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 server can easily get a client that implements this =
to enumerate its<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entire cert list and probably learn a lot about a cl=
ient that way.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 Perhaps this is intended to handle encrypted Reconfigure?=
=C2=A0 </span></blockquote><div>[LS]: No, this is not designed for the encr=
ypted Reconfigure. This is different from the above issue.</div><div>We con=
sider the scenario where the client has multiple certs. In the authenticati=
on process, if one cert of the client fails, the client may send another ce=
rt for authentication. But once the authentication successes, then the clie=
nt and server will only uses the authenticated public key for encryption.</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">If that&#39;s<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 the only reason for this limitation, I think we should addr=
ess the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 reconfigure case in some other way and keep the general spe=
cification<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 more flexible.</span>=C2=A0</blockquote><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: So we deletes the description in section 11.<br>
<br>
</span>I don&#39;t understand how this addresses the comment...=C2=A0</bloc=
kquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; - Section 9.1<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]=C2=A0 And the client can forget the increasing=
 number<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 information after the transaction is finished.=C2=A0=
 The client&#39;s initial<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 locally stored increasing number is set to zero.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;m not sure if I understand it and I&#39;m not s=
ure if it&#39;s okay<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0whatever it means...does this mean the server can (or=
 always does?)<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0reset the increasing number to 0 for messages it send=
s to the server<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0at the beginning of a new DHCPv6 session?=C2=A0 Doesn=
&#39;t it lead to an<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0easy replay attack?=C2=A0 Or is the assumption that t=
he server first<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0sends an error and the client will resend the message=
 with an<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0adjusted increasing number?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: For the first received increasing-number option, the client cann=
ot<br>
&gt; check it and just need to change the local increasing number into the<=
br>
&gt; received number. So for this purpose, i add the above statement.<br>
&gt; Looking forward to your further guidance.<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;d suggest consulting Ted here, as I guess the introduction of<=
br>
increasing-number option was originally his idea.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]=
: Will send another email to Ted for his comment.=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; - Section 10.1.1<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The mandat=
ory encryption<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 algorithms=
 MUST be included.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Which algorithm is it?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: The mandatory encryption algorithm is RSA. How about the followi=
ng<br>
&gt; text:<br>
&gt; The mandatory encryption algorithm, such as RSA, MUST be included.<br>
<br>
</span>I don&#39; know why &quot;such as&quot;.=C2=A0 I&#39;d consider a pa=
rticular algorithm(s)<br>
mandatory at the time of this document, and it/they should be<br>
explicitly defined here.=C2=A0</blockquote><div>[LS]: Got it.=C2=A0</div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; - Section 10.1.2<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 =
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OPTION_CERTIFICATE=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0option-len=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 EA=
-id=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SA-id=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 .=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Certificate=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0.<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-<wbr>+-+-+<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0This seems to assume a single certificate (which I as=
sume means a<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0single public key) can be used for both encryption an=
d signature.<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Is my understanding correct?=C2=A0 If so, can we alwa=
ys assume that?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: Yes, it means a single certificate and a single public key.<br>
&gt; If EA-id =3D 0 &amp; SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for sign=
ature.<br>
&gt; If EA-id !=3D 0 &amp; SA-id =3D0, then the public key is used for encr=
yption.<br>
&gt; If EA-id !=3D 0 &amp; SA-id !=3D0, then the public key is used for sig=
nature and<br>
&gt; encryption.<br>
<br>
</span>Ah, so if we want to use different algorithms and/or keys for<br>
signature and encryption, we have two certificate options, each<br>
setting EA-id or SA-id to 0?=C2=A0 If so, I suggest explaining it<br>
explicitly.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Yes. Will explain it more clearly.=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0And, although it may be quite straightforward, I don&=
#39;t think this<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0description is enough to actually calculate the tag v=
alue for a<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0given public key.=C2=A0 We should provide some more s=
pecific here.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: Add some more specific text about how to compute it?<br>
&gt; In the before, I prepared some text about it.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 Key Tag Calculation<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;ve not read the entire text, but it looked like a bit too verb=
ose.<br>
I&#39;ll see if I can offer some specific text.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: =
Agree. Looking forward to your contributed text.=C2=A0</div></div><br></div=
></div>

--001a11417c781c5a3c0548903b87--


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At Fri, 10 Feb 2017 22:46:58 +0000,
"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

> Hi, I have not reviewed this latest version of the draft but in my understanding
> from past discussions is that this mechanism always encrypts and there is no
> longer an "authentication-only" mode. That being the case, if this work is to go
> forward the WG must first resurrect the Relay Agent Assignment Notification
> (RAAN) draft:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg17651.html
>
> Otherwise, sedhcpv6 would be incompatible with Relays that must glean route
> information during DHCPv6 PD exchanges.

I've realized I misunderstood the meaning of zero IA-id (it doesn't
mean skipping encryption).  So, yes, it's incompatible with such
peeking relays.  It's probably better to describe the issue in
sedhcpv6 with a reference to the RAAN draft as a possible future
solution to it if and when it's adopted and standardized.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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At Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:07:29 +0000,
"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

> > It's probably better to describe the issue in
> > sedhcpv6 with a reference to the RAAN draft as a possible future
> > solution to it if and when it's adopted and standardized.
>
> If sedhcpv6 will not support an authentication-only mode, then it
> can' t go forward until RAAN is adopted as a wg item. Otherwise,
> an encryption-only sedhcpv6 w/o RAAN would break DHCPv6 PD.

I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
course, the wg should decide it.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =
<jinmei@wide.ad.jp> wrote:
> I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
> course, the wg should decide it.

It definitely isn't a blocking issue, but Fred is right that if we are =
going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is the right move, we =
need to do this work as well.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" =
class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt; wrote:<div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I personally don't think =
it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">course, the wg should decide =
it.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">It =
definitely isn't a blocking issue, but Fred is right that if we are =
going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is the right move, we =
need to do this work as well.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From nobody Wed Feb 15 10:51:35 2017
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At Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:46:27 +0800,
Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response message?  If so, with setting
> > transaction-id to 0 (like Reconfigure itself)?  And is the client
> > supposed to try to decrypt it when transaction-id is 0 even if it
> > doesn't match any outstanding Encrypted-Query it has sent?  And in
> > that case which private key should the client use?  (For the last
> > question, see also the comment on the assumption of the number of
> > client certificate described in Section 6).
> >
> > I think these questions and issues can be addressed relatively easily,
> > but I believe these should be clearly and explicitly described.
> >
> [LS]: How about the following method:
> The transaction-id of the Encrypted-Reponse message MUST be equal with the
> transaction-id of the received Encrypted-Query message and cannot be zero.
> In this way, the client will try to decrypt it.

Assuming the Reconfigure is encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response
message: it won't work since in case of Reconfigure there's no
corresponding message from the client to the server that would be
encapsulated in the Encrypted-Query message in the first place.

> > > >   The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest the
> > > >   signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.  So
> > > >   it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
> > > >   signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.
> > > >
> > > [LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are tightly
> > > related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don't understand that
> > > "it may be better to define the algorithm option so that signature/hash
> > > algorithms are listed as pairs", Could you please explain it more
> > clearly?
> >
> > For example, instead of listing SA-id List and HA-id List separately,
> > we might have unified SA-id List:
[...]
> > and each pair of (SA-id[i], HA-id[i]) will be considered to specify a
> > specific signature method.
> >
> [LS]: So, for every SA-id, there is a corresponding HA-id or multiple
> HA-id(s).
> SA-id and HA-id are set to a pair. Right?

In this example, yes.  But I'm not necessarily insisting on this
particular example itself.  My concern with the currently described
way is how to address cases like:

- the client includes SA0, SA1, HA0, HA1 in the algorithm option.  It
  supports the combinations of (SA0, HA0) and (SA1, HA1), but not (SA0,
  HA1) or (SA1, HA0)
- the server returns a certificate with the combination of (SA0, HA1)
  or (SA1, HA0)

So the higher level question is whether and how to address this
concern.  The above example approach could be one solution to it, but
it can make the algorithm option unnecessarily larger.

> > > > - Section 6
> > > >
> > > >    [...] In this document, it is assumed
> > > >    that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted DHCPv6
> > > >    configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
> > > >    decryption.
> > > >
> > > >   I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks about
> > > >   a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are used:
> >
> [LS]: We have discussed this issues before.
> In most cases, a client will not uses multiple certificate(s) for the
> encrypted DHCPv6 configuration process in the same time. Please see the
> following reasons:
> After the client authentication, the client will use the public key in the
> certificate option for encryption. The server only knows one client's
> public key for encryption. And the client will also only uses one private
> key for decryption. So there is no cases that the client will use one key
> pair for the encryption of some DHCPv6 messages and use another key pair
> for the encryption of another DHCPv6 messages.

This is fine, but I was wondering what if the client has multiple
DHCPv6 sessions with different DHCPv6 servers using different key
pairs.  It's probably very rare in practice, so I can live with saying
such an operation is outside the scope of this spec.  But I'd like to
see wg consensus on this, and if we reach it I'd like it to be
explicitly documented.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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At Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:51:26 +0000,
"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

> > > > It's probably better to describe the issue in
> > > > sedhcpv6 with a reference to the RAAN draft as a possible future
> > > > solution to it if and when it's adopted and standardized.
> > >
> > > If sedhcpv6 will not support an authentication-only mode, then it
> > > can' t go forward until RAAN is adopted as a wg item. Otherwise,
> > > an encryption-only sedhcpv6 w/o RAAN would break DHCPv6 PD.
> >
> > I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
> > course, the wg should decide it.
>
> Some uses of DHCPv6 PD require a secure exchange between the client and
> server supported by an LDRA [RFC6221] that is in the same physical stack as
> the server. The LDRA needs to peek into the server's Reply in order to discover
> the delegated prefixes for the purpose of configuring routes. This all needs to

Where in RFC6221 is that need described?  From a quick re-read of the
RFC I can't find it.  But in any case,

> work with a standards-compliant DHCPv6 server that implements both
> sedhcpv6 and RAAN. Meaning that sedhcpv6 and RAAN would need to be
> advanced together as standards.

I don't follow the logic of the final sentence.  I see this means
sedhcpv6 at least initially wouldn't work for a particular scenario
without RAAN.  But I don't think it automatically means sedhcpv6 can't
be standardized with that limitation.  It would depend on how this
incompatibility is critical for the overall purpose of sedhcpv6, and
it doesn't seem to be that substantial - we can eventually standardize
RAAN, and then update sedhcpv6 to fill the incompatibility.  I
understand you have a different opinion, but to me it's a matter of
opinion, not an only possible interpretation of this situation.  I'm
not insisting my opinion should win, of course, and that's why I said
the wg should decide it.

> Maybe better yet would be to bring the RAAN option into the sedhcpv6
> spec itself?

For the same reason I don't think so, but, again, it should be up to
the wg.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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At Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:49:25 -0500,
Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:

> > I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
> > course, the wg should decide it.
>
> [...], but Fred is right that if we
> are going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is the right
> move, we need to do this work as well.

Yes, I agree on that point.

--
JINMEI, Tatuya


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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:57:55 +0800
Message-ID: <CAFx+hEMJAJ7Q2-cm_0q=OSjvyYhijd_Y0CobngHKxOKUZn-g6g@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05=3A_=28with_COMMENT?= =?utf-8?q?=29?=
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Hi Mirja,

Thank you for the review and suggestion. I think we could make a pointer to
say this document updates RFC 3633.
We'll add this in the updated document.

Cheers,
Tianxiang

2017-02-15 18:03 GMT+08:00 Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>:

> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefi
> x-length-hint-issue/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think it would make sense if this doc updates RFC 3633 because someone
> who (newly) implements RFC 3633 should really also read this document and
> hance needs this pointer.
>
> Also, I would move section 3.6 to the beginning but that doesn't really
> matter.
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Mirja,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the review and =
suggestion. I think we could make a pointer to say this document updates RF=
C 3633.</div><div>We&#39;ll add this in the updated document.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tianxiang<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-02-15 18:03 GMT+08:00 Mirja Kuehlewind <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net" target=3D"_blank">i=
etf@kuehlewind.net</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Mirja =
K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-l<wbr>ength-hint-issue-05: No Objection<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s=
tat<wbr>ement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-le=
ngth-hint-issue/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/d<wbr>oc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefi<wbr>x-length-hint-issue/</a><=
br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
COMMENT:<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
<br>
I think it would make sense if this doc updates RFC 3633 because someone<br=
>
who (newly) implements RFC 3633 should really also read this document and<b=
r>
hance needs this pointer.<br>
<br>
Also, I would move section 3.6 to the beginning but that doesn&#39;t really=
<br>
matter.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--001a1140a4628ee19c05489c2280--


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2017-02-16 3:27 GMT+08:00 =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide=
.ad.jp>:

> At Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:46:27 +0800,
> Lishan Li <lilishan48@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response message?  If so, with setting
> > > transaction-id to 0 (like Reconfigure itself)?  And is the client
> > > supposed to try to decrypt it when transaction-id is 0 even if it
> > > doesn't match any outstanding Encrypted-Query it has sent?  And in
> > > that case which private key should the client use?  (For the last
> > > question, see also the comment on the assumption of the number of
> > > client certificate described in Section 6).
> > >
> > > I think these questions and issues can be addressed relatively easily=
,
> > > but I believe these should be clearly and explicitly described.
> > >
> > [LS]: How about the following method:
> > The transaction-id of the Encrypted-Reponse message MUST be equal with
> the
> > transaction-id of the received Encrypted-Query message and cannot be
> zero.
> > In this way, the client will try to decrypt it.
>
> Assuming the Reconfigure is encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response
> message: it won't work since in case of Reconfigure there's no
> corresponding message from the client to the server that would be
> encapsulated in the Encrypted-Query message in the first place.
>
[LS]: Yes. It is also the reason why the transaction-id of Reconfigure
message is set to zero. Right?
In this way, if the transaction-id of the Encrypted-Response is set to
zero.
Then in the client behavior part, we should states that: If the
transaction-id is 0, the client also try to decrypt it.
And in the server behavior part, we add the states that: If the DHCPv6
message is Reconfigure message, then the server set the transaction-id of
the Encrypted-Response message to 0.

>
> > > > >   The description of zero hash algorithm field seems to suggest t=
he
> > > > >   signature and hash algorithms are tightly related in practice.
> So
> > > > >   it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
> > > > >   signature/hash algorithms are listed as pairs.
> > > > >
> > > > [LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm are
> tightly
> > > > related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don't understand that
> > > > "it may be better to define the algorithm option so that
> signature/hash
> > > > algorithms are listed as pairs", Could you please explain it more
> > > clearly?
> > >
> > > For example, instead of listing SA-id List and HA-id List separately,
> > > we might have unified SA-id List:
> [...]
> > > and each pair of (SA-id[i], HA-id[i]) will be considered to specify a
> > > specific signature method.
> > >
> > [LS]: So, for every SA-id, there is a corresponding HA-id or multiple
> > HA-id(s).
> > SA-id and HA-id are set to a pair. Right?
>
> In this example, yes.  But I'm not necessarily insisting on this
> particular example itself.  My concern with the currently described
> way is how to address cases like:
>
> - the client includes SA0, SA1, HA0, HA1 in the algorithm option.  It
>   supports the combinations of (SA0, HA0) and (SA1, HA1), but not (SA0,
>   HA1) or (SA1, HA0)
> - the server returns a certificate with the combination of (SA0, HA1)
>   or (SA1, HA0)
>
> So the higher level question is whether and how to address this
> concern.  The above example approach could be one solution to it, but
> it can make the algorithm option unnecessarily larger.
>
[LS]: Agree.

>
> > > > > - Section 6
> > > > >
> > > > >    [...] In this document, it is assumed
> > > > >    that the client uses only one certificate for the encrypted
> DHCPv6
> > > > >    configuration.  So, the corresponding private key is used for
> > > > >    decryption.
> > > > >
> > > > >   I'm not sure if this is okay.  And, in fact, Section 11 talks
> about
> > > > >   a case where multiple key pairs (so multiple certificates) are
> used:
> > >
> > [LS]: We have discussed this issues before.
> > In most cases, a client will not uses multiple certificate(s) for the
> > encrypted DHCPv6 configuration process in the same time. Please see the
> > following reasons:
> > After the client authentication, the client will use the public key in
> the
> > certificate option for encryption. The server only knows one client's
> > public key for encryption. And the client will also only uses one priva=
te
> > key for decryption. So there is no cases that the client will use one k=
ey
> > pair for the encryption of some DHCPv6 messages and use another key pai=
r
> > for the encryption of another DHCPv6 messages.
>
> This is fine, but I was wondering what if the client has multiple
> DHCPv6 sessions with different DHCPv6 servers using different key
> pairs.  It's probably very rare in practice, so I can live with saying
> such an operation is outside the scope of this spec.  But I'd like to
> see wg consensus on this, and if we reach it I'd like it to be
> explicitly documented.
>
[LS]: Agree. It is necessary to be explicitly documented.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">2017-02-16 3:27 GMT+08:00 =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=
=93=89 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D=
"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;</span>:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">At Wed, 15 Feb 2017=
 19:46:27 +0800,<br>
<span class=3D"">Lishan Li &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lilishan48@gmail.com">lili=
shan48@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; &gt; Encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response message?=C2=A0 If so, with =
setting<br>
&gt; &gt; transaction-id to 0 (like Reconfigure itself)?=C2=A0 And is the c=
lient<br>
&gt; &gt; supposed to try to decrypt it when transaction-id is 0 even if it=
<br>
&gt; &gt; doesn&#39;t match any outstanding Encrypted-Query it has sent?=C2=
=A0 And in<br>
&gt; &gt; that case which private key should the client use?=C2=A0 (For the=
 last<br>
&gt; &gt; question, see also the comment on the assumption of the number of=
<br>
&gt; &gt; client certificate described in Section 6).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I think these questions and issues can be addressed relatively ea=
sily,<br>
&gt; &gt; but I believe these should be clearly and explicitly described.<b=
r>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: How about the following method:<br>
&gt; The transaction-id of the Encrypted-Reponse message MUST be equal with=
 the<br>
&gt; transaction-id of the received Encrypted-Query message and cannot be z=
ero.<br>
&gt; In this way, the client will try to decrypt it.<br>
<br>
</span>Assuming the Reconfigure is encapsulated in an Encrypted-Response<br=
>
message: it won&#39;t work since in case of Reconfigure there&#39;s no<br>
corresponding message from the client to the server that would be<br>
encapsulated in the Encrypted-Query message in the first place.<br></blockq=
uote><div>[LS]: Yes. It is also the reason why the transaction-id of Reconf=
igure message is set to zero. Right?</div><div>In this way, if the transact=
ion-id of the Encrypted-Response is set to zero.=C2=A0</div><div>Then in th=
e client behavior part, we should states that: If the transaction-id is 0, =
the client also try to decrypt it.</div><div>And in the server behavior par=
t, we add the states that: If the DHCPv6 message is Reconfigure message, th=
en the server set the transaction-id of the Encrypted-Response message to 0=
.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0The description of zero hash algorithm fiel=
d seems to suggest the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0signature and hash algorithms are tightly r=
elated in practice.=C2=A0 So<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0it may be better to define the algorithm op=
tion so that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0signature/hash algorithms are listed as pai=
rs.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; [LS]: Yes. In some cases, the signature and hash algorithm a=
re tightly<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; related and cannot be separate. Sorry that I don&#39;t under=
stand that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;it may be better to define the algorithm option so tha=
t signature/hash<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; algorithms are listed as pairs&quot;, Could you please expla=
in it more<br>
&gt; &gt; clearly?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; For example, instead of listing SA-id List and HA-id List separat=
ely,<br>
&gt; &gt; we might have unified SA-id List:<br>
</span>[...]<br>
<span class=3D"">&gt; &gt; and each pair of (SA-id[i], HA-id[i]) will be co=
nsidered to specify a<br>
&gt; &gt; specific signature method.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: So, for every SA-id, there is a corresponding HA-id or multiple<=
br>
&gt; HA-id(s).<br>
&gt; SA-id and HA-id are set to a pair. Right?<br>
<br>
</span>In this example, yes.=C2=A0 But I&#39;m not necessarily insisting on=
 this<br>
particular example itself.=C2=A0 My concern with the currently described<br=
>
way is how to address cases like:<br>
<br>
- the client includes SA0, SA1, HA0, HA1 in the algorithm option.=C2=A0 It<=
br>
=C2=A0 supports the combinations of (SA0, HA0) and (SA1, HA1), but not (SA0=
,<br>
=C2=A0 HA1) or (SA1, HA0)<br>
- the server returns a certificate with the combination of (SA0, HA1)<br>
=C2=A0 or (SA1, HA0)<br>
<br>
So the higher level question is whether and how to address this<br>
concern.=C2=A0 The above example approach could be one solution to it, but<=
br>
it can make the algorithm option unnecessarily larger.<br></blockquote><div=
>[LS]: Agree.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; - Section 6<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...] In this document, it is assumed<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that the client uses only one certificate =
for the encrypted DHCPv6<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration.=C2=A0 So, the corresponding=
 private key is used for<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 decryption.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;m not sure if this is okay.=C2=A0 And=
, in fact, Section 11 talks about<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0a case where multiple key pairs (so multipl=
e certificates) are used:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; [LS]: We have discussed this issues before.<br>
&gt; In most cases, a client will not uses multiple certificate(s) for the<=
br>
&gt; encrypted DHCPv6 configuration process in the same time. Please see th=
e<br>
&gt; following reasons:<br>
&gt; After the client authentication, the client will use the public key in=
 the<br>
&gt; certificate option for encryption. The server only knows one client&#3=
9;s<br>
&gt; public key for encryption. And the client will also only uses one priv=
ate<br>
&gt; key for decryption. So there is no cases that the client will use one =
key<br>
&gt; pair for the encryption of some DHCPv6 messages and use another key pa=
ir<br>
&gt; for the encryption of another DHCPv6 messages.<br>
<br>
</span>This is fine, but I was wondering what if the client has multiple<br=
>
DHCPv6 sessions with different DHCPv6 servers using different key<br>
pairs.=C2=A0 It&#39;s probably very rare in practice, so I can live with sa=
ying<br>
such an operation is outside the scope of this spec.=C2=A0 But I&#39;d like=
 to<br>
see wg consensus on this, and if we reach it I&#39;d like it to be<br>
explicitly documented.<br></blockquote><div>[LS]: Agree. It is necessary to=
 be explicitly documented.=C2=A0</div></div><br></div></div>

--001a114d519822fc3d0548a031f6--


From nobody Thu Feb 16 02:16:40 2017
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Subject: [dhcwg] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: (with COMMENT)
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Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From the draft:
   [RFC3633] is unclear about how the client and server should act in
   different situations involving the prefix-length hint. 
>From the shepherd write-up
   This document specifies information that is useful to DHCPv6 client
   and server implementers to support allowing clients to specify a
   prefix length hint when requested delegated prefixes. It clarifies
   this concept introduced in RFC 3633.

=> that implies an UPDATE, no?
Obviously, this document publication should go forward (so not a
DISCUSS), but I would like to understand why this is not an update.

Editorial nit (by Sue Hares, part of her OPS DIR review):

Page 3 section 3.1 section under problem.  Second paragraph.  Second
sentence

The best way to assure a completely new delegated prefix is to send a new
IAID in the IA_PD.
IAID – abbreviation has not been indicated prior to this use
Old:/IAID/
New: /IAID (IA_PD unique identifier)/



From nobody Thu Feb 16 04:04:06 2017
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Roni: thanks for your detailed review. I also appreciate
the responses and changes by you Tianxiang. I have
balloted no-objection for this document for today=92s
IESG telechat, and expect that the discussed changes
will find themselves into a new document version at
some point.

Jari


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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 10:25:40 +0800
Message-ID: <CAFx+hEOkcfH2T_y1FCM0Ofwy8SKNp+qF0uLN5fTAQavv8ufqTA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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Cc: dhc-chairs@ietf.org, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Benoit,

Thanks for the review and comments.
Please see inline.

Cheers,
Tianxiang

2017-02-16 18:16 GMT+08:00 Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>:

> Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefi
> x-length-hint-issue/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >From the draft:
>    [RFC3633] is unclear about how the client and server should act in
>    different situations involving the prefix-length hint.
> >From the shepherd write-up
>    This document specifies information that is useful to DHCPv6 client
>    and server implementers to support allowing clients to specify a
>    prefix length hint when requested delegated prefixes. It clarifies
>    this concept introduced in RFC 3633.
>
> =3D> that implies an UPDATE, no?
> Obviously, this document publication should go forward (so not a
> DISCUSS), but I would like to understand why this is not an update.
>

[Tianxiang] This point was raised during several of the reviews, I think
the general consensus is that this document should update RFC 3633, and
also point people looking at RFC3633 to this document. We would make this
edit in the update.

>
> Editorial nit (by Sue Hares, part of her OPS DIR review):
>
> Page 3 section 3.1 section under problem.  Second paragraph.  Second
> sentence
>
> The best way to assure a completely new delegated prefix is to send a new
> IAID in the IA_PD.
> IAID =E2=80=93 abbreviation has not been indicated prior to this use
> Old:/IAID/
> New: /IAID (IA_PD unique identifier)/
>
> [Tianxiang] Thanks you for the reminder, we would make the edit as Bernie
mentioned in the email.

Old: IAID
New: IAID (Identity Association IDentifier)

--001a113cf206a1e0ba0548b0a3ca
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Benoit,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the review and co=
mments.</div><div>Please see inline.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div>=
<div>Tianxiang</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">2017-02-16 18:16 GMT+08:00 Benoit Claise <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bclaise@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">bclaise@cisco.com</a>&gt;</=
span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Benoit Claise h=
as entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-l<wbr>ength-hint-issue-05: No Objection<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s=
tat<wbr>ement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-le=
ngth-hint-issue/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/d<wbr>oc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefi<wbr>x-length-hint-issue/</a><=
br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
COMMENT:<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>-----=
-----<br>
<br>
&gt;From the draft:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC3633] is unclear about how the client and server should ac=
t in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0different situations involving the prefix-length hint.<br>
&gt;From the shepherd write-up<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document specifies information that is useful to DHCPv6 c=
lient<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and server implementers to support allowing clients to specify=
 a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix length hint when requested delegated prefixes. It clari=
fies<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this concept introduced in RFC 3633.<br>
<br>
=3D&gt; that implies an UPDATE, no?<br>
Obviously, this document publication should go forward (so not a<br>
DISCUSS), but I would like to understand why this is not an update.<br></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>[Tianxiang] This point was raised during sever=
al of the reviews, I think the general consensus is that this document shou=
ld update RFC 3633, and also point people looking at RFC3633 to this docume=
nt. We would make this edit in the update.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Editorial nit (by Sue Hares, part of her OPS DIR review):<br>
<br>
Page 3 section 3.1 section under problem.=C2=A0 Second paragraph.=C2=A0 Sec=
ond<br>
sentence<br>
<br>
The best way to assure a completely new delegated prefix is to send a new<b=
r>
IAID in the IA_PD.<br>
IAID =E2=80=93 abbreviation has not been indicated prior to this use<br>
Old:/IAID/<br>
New: /IAID (IA_PD unique identifier)/<br>
<br></blockquote><div>[Tianxiang] Thanks you for the reminder, we would mak=
e the edit as Bernie mentioned in the email.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Old=
: IAID</div><div>New:=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:14px">IAID (Identity As=
sociation IDentifier)</span></div></div><br></div></div>

--001a113cf206a1e0ba0548b0a3ca--


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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 10:30:30 +0800
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To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, gen-art@ietf.org, Roni Even <roni.even@mail01.huawei.com>, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue-05
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Hi Jari,

Thank you for the support, and thanks to Roni as well as all the other kind
reviewers of this document.
We would update a new version of the document soon and cover the points
raised during last call.

Thanks and best regards,
Tianxiang

2017-02-16 20:04 GMT+08:00 Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>:

> Roni: thanks for your detailed review. I also appreciate
> the responses and changes by you Tianxiang. I have
> balloted no-objection for this document for today=E2=80=99s
> IESG telechat, and expect that the discussed changes
> will find themselves into a new document version at
> some point.
>
> Jari
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jari,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the support, and=
 thanks to Roni as well as all the other kind reviewers of this document.</=
div><div>We would update a new version of the document soon and cover the p=
oints raised during last call.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks and be=
st regards,</div><div>Tianxiang</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-02-16 20:04 GMT+08:00 Jari Arkko <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net" target=3D"_blank">jari=
.arkko@piuha.net</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Roni: th=
anks for your detailed review. I also appreciate<br>
the responses and changes by you Tianxiang. I have<br>
balloted no-objection for this document for today=E2=80=99s<br>
IESG telechat, and expect that the discussed changes<br>
will find themselves into a new document version at<br>
some point.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Jari<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:32:03 +0800
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Cc: "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Hi all,

The IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue has
ended, several reviewers suggested this document should update RFC 3633, as
someone reading RFC3633 would need a pointer to this document. Hope to
receive the comments from the WG regarding this issue.

And if so, do we need to add a specific tag in the xml file stating that it
updates RFC 3633 and change the title of the document?

Hope to receive your advice.

Thank you,
Tianxiang

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div>The IESG review of draft-=
ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue has ended, several reviewers sugge=
sted this document should update RFC 3633, as someone reading RFC3633 would=
 need a pointer to this document. Hope to receive the comments from the WG =
regarding this issue.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>And if so, do we need to add=
 a specific tag in the xml file stating that it updates RFC 3633 and change=
 the title of the document?<div><div><br></div></div><div>Hope to receive y=
our advice.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you,</div><div>Tianxiang</div></=
div></div>

--001a113cc7fa3583250548b33e9c--


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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 23:00:21 +0000
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
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Fred, I think we all agree that this problem needs to be solved. We don't
agree that work on the security draft must stop until the raan draft is
done. It's just not that hard.

On Feb 18, 2017 11:28 AM, "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
wrote:

Hi Bernie,



My understanding  is that sedhcpv6 is intended to be a product of the IETF,

so I therefore assume that it is intended to be a product of engineering. I=
t

has been shown that sedhcpv6 has an omission that will limit its
applicability,

and that that omission can be rather easily remedied prior to publication.
It

therefore makes good engineering sense to fix the omission now.



The proposal again is to have sedhcpv6 specify the RAAN option as part of

the base document.



Thanks - Fred



*From:* Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
*Sent:* Friday, February 17, 2017 3:00 PM
*To:* Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; Ted Lemon <
mellon@fugue.com>; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>

*Cc:* dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
*Subject:* RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt



I think the plan here makes some sense =E2=80=A6 seDHCPv6 has had several a=
ttempts
and been kicked back to the WG. So, I think the WG wants to go slowly and
not develop a solution until seDHCPv6 is likely to advance in the IESG
(encryption was only added fairly =E2=80=9Crecently=E2=80=9D).



And, it isn=E2=80=99t like the day after seDHCPv6 is =E2=80=9Capproved=E2=
=80=9D that every client
(and server) will support this. It will take time to roll out. And,
hopefully we can get the RAAN work out in a fairly short time.



In your networks, if you can=E2=80=99t support seDHCPv6 until you have some=
thing to
so solve the RAAN issues, you obviously can=E2=80=99t deploy seDHCPv6. But =
there
may be plenty of other networks where this isn=E2=80=99t an issue and it co=
uld
start to be deployed (coffee shops and enterprises).



-          Bernie



*From:* Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com
<Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>]
*Sent:* Friday, February 17, 2017 5:35 PM
*To:* Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>; Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>;
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
*Cc:* dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
*Subject:* RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt



Bernie,



The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the sedhcpv6

I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.



This does not make sense to me; sedhcpv6 is the very reason that RAAN is
important.

Just like RFC3971 did with IPv6 ND Timestamp and Nonce options, sedhcpv6
could

define the RAAN operation and have everything over and done with in one
pass.

And, I have already identified a use case where RAAN is absolutely
necessary.

Also, I was unable to attend  IETF97, where I certainly would have stood up
and

voiced my position.



Thanks - Fred



*From:* dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org <dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
Behalf Of *Bernie Volz (volz)
*Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:39 PM
*To:* Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <j=
inmei@wide.ad.jp>
*Cc:* dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
*Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt



I presented about resurrecting draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate at
IETF-97 (see https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-
97-dhc-resurrect-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf).



And the conclusion then was (see https://www.ietf.org/
proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt):



The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the sedhcpv6

I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.



-          Bernie



*From:* dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org <dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
Behalf Of *Ted Lemon
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:49 PM
*To:* =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
*Cc:* dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
*Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt



On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@w=
ide.ad.jp> wrote:

I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
course, the wg should decide it.



It definitely isn't a blocking issue, but Fred is right that if we are
going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is the right move, we need
to do this work as well.

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<div dir=3D"auto">Fred, I think we all agree that this problem needs to be =
solved. We don&#39;t agree that work on the security draft must stop until =
the raan draft is done. It&#39;s just not that hard.=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Feb 18, 2017 11:28 AM, &=
quot;Templin, Fred L&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com"=
>Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquo=
te class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_7690376594138111953WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Bernie,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">My understanding =C2=A0is that sedhcp=
v6 is intended to be a product of the IETF,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">so I therefore assume that it is inte=
nded to be a product of engineering. It<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">has been shown that sedhcpv6 has an o=
mission that will limit its applicability,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">and that that omission can be rather =
easily remedied prior to publication. It<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">therefore makes good engineering sens=
e to fix the omission now.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The proposal again is to have sedhcpv=
6 specify the RAAN option as part of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">the base document.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks - Fred<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">volz@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 17, 2017 3:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Templin, Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;; Ted Lemon &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@w=
ide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<div class=3D"elided-=
text"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> dhcwg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dh=
cwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dh=
c-sedhcpv6-20.txt<u></u><u></u></div></span></p>
</div>
</div><div class=3D"elided-text">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think the plan here makes some sens=
e =E2=80=A6 seDHCPv6 has had several attempts and been kicked back to the W=
G. So, I think the WG wants to go slowly and not develop
 a solution until seDHCPv6 is likely to advance in the IESG (encryption was=
 only added fairly =E2=80=9Crecently=E2=80=9D).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">And, it isn=E2=80=99t like the day af=
ter seDHCPv6 is =E2=80=9Capproved=E2=80=9D that every client (and server) w=
ill support this. It will take time to roll out. And, hopefully we can
 get the RAAN work out in a fairly short time.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In your networks, if you can=E2=80=99=
t support seDHCPv6 until you have something to so solve the RAAN issues, yo=
u obviously can=E2=80=99t deploy seDHCPv6. But there may be plenty
 of other networks where this isn=E2=80=99t an issue and it could start to =
be deployed (coffee shops and enterprises).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_7690376594138111953MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><s=
pan>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Bernie<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Templin, Fred L [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boe=
ing.<wbr>com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 17, 2017 5:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Ted Lemon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@=
fugue.com" target=3D"_blank">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@w=
ide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dhcwg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dh=
cwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dh=
c-sedhcpv6-20.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Bernie,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">The discussion gravitated towards not resurrec=
ting until the sedhcpv6<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate thi=
s once sedhcpv6 is done.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">This does not make sense to me; sedhc=
pv6 is the very reason that RAAN is important.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Just like RFC3971 did with IPv6 ND Ti=
mestamp and Nonce options, sedhcpv6 could<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">define the RAAN operation and have ev=
erything over and done with in one pass.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">And, I have already identified a use =
case where RAAN is absolutely necessary.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Also, I was unable to attend =C2=A0IE=
TF97, where I certainly would have stood up and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">voiced my position.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks - Fred<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> dhcwg [<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org</a><wbr>=
]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bernie Volz (volz)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ted Lemon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;; </span>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E7=A5=
=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad=
.jp" target=3D"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dhcwg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dh=
cwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dh=
c-sedhcpv6-20.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I presented about resurrecting draft-=
ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-<wbr>agentopt-delegate at IETF-97 (see
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurre=
ct-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>proceedings/97/slides/slides-<wbr>97-dhc-resurrec=
t-draft-ietf-<wbr>dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-<wbr>00.pdf</a>).<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">And the conclusion then was (see
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.tx=
t" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/<wbr>proceedings/97/minutes/<wbr>=
minutes-97-dhc-00.txt</a>):<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">The discussion gravitated towards not resurrec=
ting until the sedhcpv6<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate thi=
s once sedhcpv6 is done.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_7690376594138111953MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><s=
pan>-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Bernie<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> dhcwg [<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org</a><wbr>=
]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Lemon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS Goth=
ic&quot;">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> dhcwg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dh=
cwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dh=
c-sedhcpv6-20.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM, <span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;MS Mincho&quot;">
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wi=
de.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Menlo-Re=
gular">I personally don&#39;t think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, =
of<br>
course, the wg should decide it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It definitely isn&#39;t a blocking issue, but Fred i=
s right that if we are going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is t=
he right move, we need to do this work as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a114b19586d4d4d0548d13368--


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From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
To: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 04:06:08 +0000
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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> On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:32 AM, tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> The IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue has =
ended, several reviewers suggested this document should update RFC 3633, =
as someone reading RFC3633 would need a pointer to this document. Hope =
to receive the comments from the WG regarding this issue.=20

I personally have no objections to adding the Updates: RFC3633 tag to =
the document. It would be great if other WG participants can chime in =
one way or another.

>=20
> And if so, do we need to add a specific tag in the xml file stating =
that it updates RFC 3633 and change the title of the document?

If the WG has no objection to doing this, I can add this (Updates tag) =
as an RFC Editor note. No need for a new rev.

Thanks
Suresh


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From: Erik Kline <ek@google.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 14:57:17 +0900
Message-ID: <CAAedzxp_OtzTg+H8XqLS0x-ry7VVknwduD87AheAP4_cvpjwqA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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What about folding in to 3315bis (where other 3633 info is going)?  I have
no strong preference one way or the other, just asking.

On 21 February 2017 at 13:06, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
wrote:

>
> > On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:32 AM, tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue has
> ended, several reviewers suggested this document should update RFC 3633, as
> someone reading RFC3633 would need a pointer to this document. Hope to
> receive the comments from the WG regarding this issue.
>
> I personally have no objections to adding the Updates: RFC3633 tag to the
> document. It would be great if other WG participants can chime in one way
> or another.
>
> >
> > And if so, do we need to add a specific tag in the xml file stating that
> it updates RFC 3633 and change the title of the document?
>
> If the WG has no objection to doing this, I can add this (Updates tag) as
> an RFC Editor note. No need for a new rev.
>
> Thanks
> Suresh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">What about folding in to 3315bis (where other 3633 info is=
 going)?=C2=A0 I have no strong preference one way or the other, just askin=
g.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 21 Feb=
ruary 2017 at 13:06, Suresh Krishnan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com" target=3D"_blank">suresh.krishnan@ericsson.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"=
"><br>
&gt; On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:32 AM, tianxiang li &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter=
416733@gmail.com">peter416733@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-<wbr>length-hint-issue=
 has ended, several reviewers suggested this document should update RFC 363=
3, as someone reading RFC3633 would need a pointer to this document. Hope t=
o receive the comments from the WG regarding this issue.<br>
<br>
</span>I personally have no objections to adding the Updates: RFC3633 tag t=
o the document. It would be great if other WG participants can chime in one=
 way or another.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And if so, do we need to add a specific tag in the xml file stating th=
at it updates RFC 3633 and change the title of the document?<br>
<br>
</span>If the WG has no objection to doing this, I can add this (Updates ta=
g) as an RFC Editor note. No need for a new rev.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">Suresh<br>
<br>
</font></span><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
dhcwg mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/dhcwg</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From nobody Tue Feb 21 07:55:24 2017
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Subject: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-21.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : Secure DHCPv6
        Authors         : Lishan Li
                          Sheng Jiang
                          Yong Cui
                          Tatuya Jinmei
                          Ted Lemon
                          Dacheng Zhang
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-21.txt
	Pages           : 31
	Date            : 2017-02-21

Abstract:
   DHCPv6 includes no deployable security mechanism that can protect
   end-to-end communication between DHCP clients and servers.  This
   document describes a mechanism for using public key cryptography to
   provide such security.  The mechanism provides encryption in all
   cases, and can be used for authentication based on pre-sharing of
   authorized certificates.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-21

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-21


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
To: Erik Kline <ek@google.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Hi Erik,

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 12:57 AM, Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote:
>=20
> What about folding in to 3315bis (where other 3633 info is going)?  I =
have no strong preference one way or the other, just asking.

<AD Hat off>That is certainly something worth considering, but I think =
it should be independent of this document. There are people who =
implement RFC3633 and it would be good if they can use this =
independently without needing to wait for 3315bis.

Thanks
Suresh


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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>, Erik Kline <ek@google.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
Thread-Index: AQHSjAdpZrZhqiHmrU2X2q8zezC2gKF0ZvoA///T33A=
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 01:18:48 +0000
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References: <CAFx+hEMNhzShhDWxSX+JLq+KPk4HyMzdGMEWYWG6i1o+LFMb3w@mail.gmail.com> <DE41B94D-78C3-4BDE-8BA3-555D67A59E49@ericsson.com> <CAAedzxp_OtzTg+H8XqLS0x-ry7VVknwduD87AheAP4_cvpjwqA@mail.gmail.com> <7D7BC30A-FABA-43D1-BF60-4687476CE652@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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And, at some point we have to draw the line as to what can be added to 3315=
bis or it will never finish.

I think having this as a standalone document is fine. Note that 3315bis doe=
s reference it.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 5:56 PM
To: Erik Kline <ek@google.com>
Cc: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Bernie Vo=
lz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-le=
ngth-hint-issue

Hi Erik,

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 12:57 AM, Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote:
>=20
> What about folding in to 3315bis (where other 3633 info is going)?  I hav=
e no strong preference one way or the other, just asking.

<AD Hat off>That is certainly something worth considering, but I think it s=
hould be independent of this document. There are people who implement RFC36=
33 and it would be good if they can use this independently without needing =
to wait for 3315bis.

Thanks
Suresh


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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>, Erik Kline <ek@google.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Hi:

Also, my personal opinion (wg chair hat off) is that we DON'T tag this docu=
ment to update 3633. There is no specific text in this draft that replaces =
text in 3633. The section 3.6 is a "General Recommendation" and it could be=
 argued that 3633 always intended clients to include the hint in each reque=
st.

And, also if 3315bis obsoletes 3633, it might REQUIRE us to address this in=
 3315bis? Rather than just reference it - and while we could add the "Gener=
al Recommendation", one would then lose a lot of the background as to why t=
his is important (and the rest of the prefix-hint draft isn't well suited t=
o be incorporated in 3315bis).

Hence, my personal opinion is that we:
1. Don't specify that this document updates 3633.
2. Have 3315bis reference it (which we already do).

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:19 PM
To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>; Erik Kline <ek@google.c=
om>
Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-le=
ngth-hint-issue

And, at some point we have to draw the line as to what can be added to 3315=
bis or it will never finish.

I think having this as a standalone document is fine. Note that 3315bis doe=
s reference it.

- Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 5:56 PM
To: Erik Kline <ek@google.com>
Cc: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Bernie Vo=
lz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-le=
ngth-hint-issue

Hi Erik,

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 12:57 AM, Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote:
>=20
> What about folding in to 3315bis (where other 3633 info is going)?  I hav=
e no strong preference one way or the other, just asking.

<AD Hat off>That is certainly something worth considering, but I think it s=
hould be independent of this document. There are people who implement RFC36=
33 and it would be good if they can use this independently without needing =
to wait for 3315bis.

Thanks
Suresh

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


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From: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <eb9edb80-f977-c67c-57b9-bcf989374ab9@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:37:32 +0100
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Cc: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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Hi,

This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:

Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
Pages: 9
Date: 2017-02-01
Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07

This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)
and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.

This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh
in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.

Bernie & Tomek


From nobody Wed Feb 22 09:45:16 2017
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From: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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W dniu 21.02.2017 o 05:06, Suresh Krishnan pisze:
>> On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:32 AM, tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue has =
ended, several reviewers suggested this document should update RFC 3633, =
as someone reading RFC3633 would need a pointer to this document. Hope to=
 receive the comments from the WG regarding this issue.=20
>>
>> I personally have no objections to adding the Updates: RFC3633 tag to =
the document. It would be great if other WG participants can chime in one=
 way or another.
With my co-chair hat off, I don't have any specific preference here. On
one hand, if we update 3633, we will be enforcing everyone to follow the
recommendation made in prefix-length-hint-issue. The obvious benefit is
that prefix-length-hint-issue will get more exposure, which is a good
thing. On the other hand, the 3315bis work hopefully will be published
later this year and it will obsolete 3633. Assuming the bis work gets
published relatively soon, the window of opportunity when the 3633
update will be applicable is several months. As Bernie pointed out,
3315bis references prefix-length-hint-issue.

If it was completely up to me, I would go with update 3633, because that
would give this draft immediate exposure to more readers. Also, if
3315bis publication is delayed for whatever reason, updating seems like
a better choice. But I wouldn't complain if we decide to go the "don't
update" route.

Tomek



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Cc: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Softwires] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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Hi

As a co-author, I support its adoption. We (DT) are currently testing an =
implementation of DHCPv4oDHCPv6 which includes the Source Address option =
with a plan to deploy. As this draft is predominantly concerned with =
changes to DHCPv4o6 client and server implementations, it seems logical =
to progress this in DHC.

Thanks,
Ian

> On 22 Feb 2017, at 18:37, Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:
>=20
> Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
> Pages: 9
> Date: 2017-02-01
> Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
> Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
>=20
> This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
> Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)
> and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
> adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.
>=20
> This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts =
weigh
> in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
> though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.
>=20
> Bernie & Tomek
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Softwires mailing list
> Softwires@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires


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From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
To: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Updating RFC 3633 with draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue
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Hi Tomek,

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Tomek Mrugalski =
<tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> W dniu 21.02.2017 o 05:06, Suresh Krishnan pisze:
>>> On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:32 AM, tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> The IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-length-hint-issue =
has ended, several reviewers suggested this document should update RFC =
3633, as someone reading RFC3633 would need a pointer to this document. =
Hope to receive the comments from the WG regarding this issue.=20
>>>=20
>>> I personally have no objections to adding the Updates: RFC3633 tag =
to the document. It would be great if other WG participants can chime in =
one way or another.
> With my co-chair hat off, I don't have any specific preference here. =
On
> one hand, if we update 3633, we will be enforcing everyone to follow =
the
> recommendation made in prefix-length-hint-issue. The obvious benefit =
is
> that prefix-length-hint-issue will get more exposure, which is a good
> thing. On the other hand, the 3315bis work hopefully will be published
> later this year and it will obsolete 3633. Assuming the bis work gets
> published relatively soon, the window of opportunity when the 3633
> update will be applicable is several months. As Bernie pointed out,
> 3315bis references prefix-length-hint-issue.
>=20
> If it was completely up to me, I would go with update 3633, because =
that
> would give this draft immediate exposure to more readers. Also, if
> 3315bis publication is delayed for whatever reason, updating seems =
like
> a better choice. But I wouldn't complain if we decide to go the "don't
> update" route.

Yes. This was my position as well. I will let Bernie and you make the =
call as chairs and let me know.

Thanks
Suresh=

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From: Linhui Sun <lh.sunlinh@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:24:29 +0800
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To: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
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Cc: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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--f403045f168ab04f1f054979c8f2
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Hi all,

As a co-author, I support the adoption. This document defines new DHCP4o6
options that make dynamic provisioning of softwire mechanisms come true.

Best,
Linhui

2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:
>
> Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
> Pages: 9
> Date: 2017-02-01
> Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
> Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
>
> This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
> Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)
> and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
> adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.
>
> This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh
> in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
> though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.
>
> Bernie & Tomek
>
>

--f403045f168ab04f1f054979c8f2
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<div><br></div><div>As a co-author, I support the a=
doption. This document defines new DHCP4o6 options that make dynamic provis=
ioning of softwire mechanisms come true.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</di=
v><div>Linhui</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mrugalski <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tomasz.mrugals=
ki@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:<br>
<br>
Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option<br>
Pages: 9<br>
Date: 2017-02-01<br>
Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-<wbr>saddr-opt-07<br>
Link: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-sadd=
r-opt-07" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fs=
c-<wbr>softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07</a><br>
<br>
This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in<br>
Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)<br>
and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC<br>
adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.<br>
<br>
This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh<br>
in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,<br>
though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.<br>
<br>
Bernie &amp; Tomek<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--f403045f168ab04f1f054979c8f2--


From nobody Mon Feb 27 06:27:57 2017
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Cc: dhc-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03.txt> (Security of Messages Exchanged Between Servers and Relay Agents) to Proposed Standard
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X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 14:27:56 -0000

The IESG has received a request from the Dynamic Host Configuration WG
(dhc) to consider the following document:
- 'Security of Messages Exchanged Between Servers and Relay Agents'
  <draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-03.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-03-13. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv4 (DHCPv4) has no
   guidance for how to secure messages exchanged between servers and
   relay agents.  The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6
   (DHCPv6) states that IPsec should be used to secure messages
   exchanged between servers and relay agents, but does not require
   encryption.  And, with recent concerns about pervasive monitoring and
   other attacks, it is appropriate to require securing relay to relay
   and relay to server communication for DHCPv6 and relay to server
   communication for DHCPv4.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.





From nobody Mon Feb 27 11:16:26 2017
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From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Hi Kim,

sorry for my late reply. Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to me. =
I think slightly more explanation in the draft could be good to make =
clear that the TCP blocking itself is not the problem but that one kind =
of application layer message will block another kind which can lead to =
total blocking given only one TCP connection is used for all kind of =
message to reduce complexity in connection management. Because currently =
it reads a little like if there is a problem with TCP which is not =
really the case.

Thanks!
Mirja


> Am 02.02.2017 um 18:43 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>=20
> Mirja,
>=20
> More comments, below...
>=20
>=20
>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> [... removed already handled issue -- Kim]
>>=20
>>> 6.1.  Creating Connections
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  =
is
>>>> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess you =
would
>>>> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all =
message
>>>> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate that. =
And is
>>>> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
>>>> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the =
sending
>>>> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What will =
be
>>>> different if the sender knows in advance when it could potentially =
happen
>>>> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages quickly =
and
>>>> there is no excessive loss).
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
>>> 	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
>>> 	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
>>> 	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
>>> 	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
>>> 	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
>>> 	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
>>> 	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
>>> 	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
>>> 	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
>>> 	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
>>> 	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
>>> 	designed to help that be true.
>>=20
>> So you mean this is purely an application parameter saying I will not =
process more than X messages at once (before sending out a BNDREPLY). So =
this is rather independent of any socket buffer configuration, expect =
that the buffer needs to be large enough to at least handle X (max-size) =
messages which maybe is a good thing to notice as well.
>=20
> 	This is an application parameter saying that I can accept up
> 	to X messages at once without blocking the TCP connection.
> 	That isn't in conflict with what you said, but is focused a
> 	bit differently.  It is independent of any socket buffer
> 	configuration -- this is application level flow control.
>=20
>>=20
>> However, this basically means that you at sender-side anyway need a =
way to cache BNDUPD message that you are not allowed to send out yet. =
Why don=E2=80=99t you just basically set this value implicitly always to =
1 and say you can=E2=80=99t send another BNDUPD if an BNDREPLY is still =
outstanding=E2=80=A6? I would guess it=E2=80=99s anyway rather unlikely =
that you need to send more than one message at once, no?
>=20
> 	Servers frequently need send far more than one BNDUPD at once.
> 	The most extreme typical case is when one server is updating a
> 	partner which has been down with information about what has
> 	been happening while the partner was down.  This will generate
> 	thousands to tens of thousands of BNDUPD's.  When one server
> 	has lost its stable storage completely and needs to
> 	essentially be initialized by the other server, millions of
> 	BNDUPD's may need to flow across the link.
>=20
> 	Doing them one at a time, while technically correct, typically
> 	leaves a lot of performance on the table and could easily
> 	extend the time before the servers synchronize from seconds to
> 	tens of minutes (and possibly hours).  Many DHCP servers are
> 	multi-threaded and can process multiple BNDUPD's at the same
> 	time (though they may batch up the writes to the disk).  Thus,
> 	we would expect that most servers implementing this protocol
> 	would set this value to something substantial.
>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
>>> 	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
>>> 	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
>>> 	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
>>> 	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.
>>>=20
>>> 	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
>>> 	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
>>> 	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
>>> 	the application-level flow control of the
>>> 	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.
>>=20
>> I would actually say that the overhead is rather low. Maybe one =
should discuss this option at least as one potential implementation =
possibility. The only hard requirement is that the receiver side would =
be able to process message coming from different connections from the =
same endpoint, which I assume would be easy given you anyway have to =
handle different connections from different endpoints, no?
>=20
> 	Having different implementation possibilities in something as
> 	basic as connection management in a protocol already this
> 	complex is something we have tried hard to avoid, and we could
> 	only justify it if it were necessary to solve a very pressing
> 	problem.
>=20
> Thanks -- Kim
>=20
>=20


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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Mirja,

Thanks for your comment.  I will make two (identical) changes based
on your suggestion:

I will expand the first occurrence of the use of MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
in Section 6.1.1 "Sending a CONNECT message", from the current:

>    o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
>       messages that this server is prepared to accept over the =
failover
>       connection without causing the connection to block.

to the following:

   o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
      messages that this server is prepared to accept over the failover
      connection without causing the connection to block.  This is to
      implement application level flow control over the connection, so
      that a flood of BNDUPD messages does not cause the connection to =
block
      and thereby prevent other messages from being transmitted=20
      over the connection and received by the failover partner.

I will also change the second place where OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
is transmitted in Section 6.1.2 "Receiving a CONNECT message", where it
discusses creating a CONNECTREPLY message, to say the same thing (as it
currently has the same "current" text).

Thanks -- Kim

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Kim,
>=20
> sorry for my late reply. Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to =
me. I think slightly more explanation in the draft could be good to make =
clear that the TCP blocking itself is not the problem but that one kind =
of application layer message will block another kind which can lead to =
total blocking given only one TCP connection is used for all kind of =
message to reduce complexity in connection management. Because currently =
it reads a little like if there is a problem with TCP which is not =
really the case.
>=20
> Thanks!
> Mirja
>=20
>=20
>> Am 02.02.2017 um 18:43 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>>=20
>> Mirja,
>>=20
>> More comments, below...
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> [... removed already handled issue -- Kim]
>>>=20
>>>> 6.1.  Creating Connections
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  =
is
>>>>> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess you =
would
>>>>> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all =
message
>>>>> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate that. =
And is
>>>>> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
>>>>> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the =
sending
>>>>> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What will =
be
>>>>> different if the sender knows in advance when it could potentially =
happen
>>>>> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages =
quickly and
>>>>> there is no excessive loss).
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
>>>> 	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
>>>> 	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
>>>> 	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
>>>> 	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
>>>> 	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
>>>> 	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
>>>> 	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
>>>> 	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
>>>> 	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
>>>> 	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
>>>> 	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
>>>> 	designed to help that be true.
>>>=20
>>> So you mean this is purely an application parameter saying I will =
not process more than X messages at once (before sending out a =
BNDREPLY). So this is rather independent of any socket buffer =
configuration, expect that the buffer needs to be large enough to at =
least handle X (max-size) messages which maybe is a good thing to notice =
as well.
>>=20
>> 	This is an application parameter saying that I can accept up
>> 	to X messages at once without blocking the TCP connection.
>> 	That isn't in conflict with what you said, but is focused a
>> 	bit differently.  It is independent of any socket buffer
>> 	configuration -- this is application level flow control.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> However, this basically means that you at sender-side anyway need a =
way to cache BNDUPD message that you are not allowed to send out yet. =
Why don=E2=80=99t you just basically set this value implicitly always to =
1 and say you can=E2=80=99t send another BNDUPD if an BNDREPLY is still =
outstanding=E2=80=A6? I would guess it=E2=80=99s anyway rather unlikely =
that you need to send more than one message at once, no?
>>=20
>> 	Servers frequently need send far more than one BNDUPD at once.
>> 	The most extreme typical case is when one server is updating a
>> 	partner which has been down with information about what has
>> 	been happening while the partner was down.  This will generate
>> 	thousands to tens of thousands of BNDUPD's.  When one server
>> 	has lost its stable storage completely and needs to
>> 	essentially be initialized by the other server, millions of
>> 	BNDUPD's may need to flow across the link.
>>=20
>> 	Doing them one at a time, while technically correct, typically
>> 	leaves a lot of performance on the table and could easily
>> 	extend the time before the servers synchronize from seconds to
>> 	tens of minutes (and possibly hours).  Many DHCP servers are
>> 	multi-threaded and can process multiple BNDUPD's at the same
>> 	time (though they may batch up the writes to the disk).  Thus,
>> 	we would expect that most servers implementing this protocol
>> 	would set this value to something substantial.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
>>>> 	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
>>>> 	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
>>>> 	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
>>>> 	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.
>>>>=20
>>>> 	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
>>>> 	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
>>>> 	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
>>>> 	the application-level flow control of the
>>>> 	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.
>>>=20
>>> I would actually say that the overhead is rather low. Maybe one =
should discuss this option at least as one potential implementation =
possibility. The only hard requirement is that the receiver side would =
be able to process message coming from different connections from the =
same endpoint, which I assume would be easy given you anyway have to =
handle different connections from different endpoints, no?
>>=20
>> 	Having different implementation possibilities in something as
>> 	basic as connection management in a protocol already this
>> 	complex is something we have tried hard to avoid, and we could
>> 	only justify it if it were necessary to solve a very pressing
>> 	problem.
>>=20
>> Thanks -- Kim
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>, "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" <volz@cisco.com>
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From: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
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In-Reply-To: <5109024ddba44de9a3270e58a4c3270a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
References: <148455739520.22478.14651605359463322132.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAJ3w4NdCk8CBfNagcXT_VW_50+=xK=N7aB5HHqqn3stMt7Gy-Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAJE_bqf_AP9w1Bh_5kSB4YkLaV9XJ1tngufAiOMxVqQLwMruNA@mail.gmail.com> <aba52c11e462426bb3cbf66fcdca7783@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CAJE_bqcG004FuUkKa0Xk1AiOo-bO4aHweYDpxMeeg+_=dSK6FQ@mail.gmail.com> <5c9ed55cfdc94456baf19740ba62910c@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CAJE_bqeshAHmvGukto+PKs_skVPF5bnukvw8+5_04YEx_6m_sQ@mail.gmail.com> <ABDD8B01-EC93-4ADD-AF59-57332A9C255E@fugue.com> <9d9d50b20005459aafffcd8f64bfb281@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <21bd317edc764fc89dc4a13aa541b1c1@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <3e5776023c0d447aaccb81dc8ec8724a@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <49129cb6c19c4be3bd483ceb3312bd72@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CAPt1N1nuL8dPWc_o_je9C5YGwVOC-jn412U2Z367RFBrgebO+A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1kt51wpxwp94RyYGTtgYpWvBs8qxhHp5F0XOML39TRiEw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1ndGDz2q3ZRpzb1o51QyfzQHEZFNc0w-NmS1-Seak53-g@mail.gmail.com> <5109024ddba44de9a3270e58a4c3270a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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Bernie - a long time ago, if I recall correctly, you asked me if I had =
XML source for the earlier RAAN document.  I searched around, but can't =
seem to find that file.  Is the text in that earlier doc at all useful =
for this instantiation of RAAN?

- Ralph

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Templin, Fred L =
<Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Ted,
> =20
> Just getting back to this after being away for the past week:
> =20
> =C3=98  Fred, I think we all agree that this problem needs to be =
solved.
> =20
> I still think it would be cleanest and most consistent with past works =
if the base
> sedhcpv6 specification were to include the RAAN option itself. But, if =
that would
> not be possible and if (as you say) there is agreement that this =
problem needs
> to be solved, then we should adopt the RAAN draft as a dhcwg working =
group
> item now.
> =20
> =C3=98  We don't agree that work on the security draft must stop until =
the raan draft is done.
> =20
> I never said or meant to imply that the security draft must stop until =
RAAN is done.
> To the contrary, the two documents could run in parallel with both =
being dhcwg WG
> items now and with no interdependencies. By adopting RAAN as a WG item =
now,
> implementers would be more likely to implement RAAN in parallel with =
sedhcpv6
> rather than defer it to some (much) later time.
> =20
> =C3=98  It's just not that hard.
> =20
> Definitely agree.
> =20
> Thanks - Fred
> =20
> From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]=20
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:17 AM
> To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =
<jinmei@wide.ad.jp>; Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> Fred, I think we all agree that this problem needs to be solved. We =
don't agree that work on the security draft must stop until the raan =
draft is done. It's just not that hard.=20
> =20
> On Feb 18, 2017 11:28 AM, "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> wrote:
> Hi Bernie,
> =20
> My understanding  is that sedhcpv6 is intended to be a product of the =
IETF,
> so I therefore assume that it is intended to be a product of =
engineering. It
> has been shown that sedhcpv6 has an omission that will limit its =
applicability,
> and that that omission can be rather easily remedied prior to =
publication. It
> therefore makes good engineering sense to fix the omission now.
> =20
> The proposal again is to have sedhcpv6 specify the RAAN option as part =
of
> the base document.
> =20
> Thanks - Fred
> =20
> From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com =
<mailto:volz@cisco.com>]=20
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>; Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com =
<mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>;=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =
<jinmei@wide.ad.jp <mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
>=20
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> I think the plan here makes some sense =E2=80=A6 seDHCPv6 has had =
several attempts and been kicked back to the WG. So, I think the WG =
wants to go slowly and not develop a solution until seDHCPv6 is likely =
to advance in the IESG (encryption was only added fairly =
=E2=80=9Crecently=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> And, it isn=E2=80=99t like the day after seDHCPv6 is =E2=80=9Capproved=E2=
=80=9D that every client (and server) will support this. It will take =
time to roll out. And, hopefully we can get the RAAN work out in a =
fairly short time.
> =20
> In your networks, if you can=E2=80=99t support seDHCPv6 until you have =
something to so solve the RAAN issues, you obviously can=E2=80=99t =
deploy seDHCPv6. But there may be plenty of other networks where this =
isn=E2=80=99t an issue and it could start to be deployed (coffee shops =
and enterprises).
> =20
> -          Bernie
>=20
> =20
> From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>]=20
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 5:35 PM
> To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com <mailto:volz@cisco.com>>; Ted =
Lemon <mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>; =
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89<jinmei@wide.ad.jp =
<mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> Bernie,
> =20
> The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the sedhcpv6
> I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.
> =20
> This does not make sense to me; sedhcpv6 is the very reason that RAAN =
is important.
> Just like RFC3971 did with IPv6 ND Timestamp and Nonce options, =
sedhcpv6 could
> define the RAAN operation and have everything over and done with in =
one pass.
> And, I have already identified a use case where RAAN is absolutely =
necessary.
> Also, I was unable to attend  IETF97, where I certainly would have =
stood up and
> voiced my position.
> =20
> Thanks - Fred
> =20
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:39 PM
> To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>; =
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp =
<mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> I presented about resurrecting draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate =
at IETF-97 =
(seehttps://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurrect-dra=
ft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurrect-draft-=
ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf>).
> =20
> And the conclusion then was (see =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt>):
> =20
> The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the sedhcpv6
> I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.
> =20
> -          Bernie
>=20
> =20
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Ted Lemon
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:49 PM
> To: =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp =
<mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =
<jinmei@wide.ad.jp <mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>> wrote:
> I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
> course, the wg should decide it.
> =20
> It definitely isn't a blocking issue, but Fred is right that if we are =
going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is the right move, we =
need to do this work as well.
> =20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Bernie - a long time ago, if I recall correctly, you asked me =
if I had XML source for the earlier RAAN document. &nbsp;I searched =
around, but can't seem to find that file. &nbsp;Is the text in that =
earlier doc at all useful for this instantiation of RAAN?<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">- Ralph</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Templin, Fred L &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Ted,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Just getting back to =
this after being away for the past week:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">=C3=98<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span>Fred, =
I think we all agree that this problem needs to be solved.<span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I still think it would =
be cleanest and most consistent with past works if the base<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">sedhcpv6 specification were to include the =
RAAN option itself. But, if that would<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">not be possible and if (as you say) there =
is agreement that this problem needs<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">to be solved, then we should adopt the =
RAAN draft as a dhcwg working group<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">item now.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">=C3=98<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span>We =
don't agree that work on the security draft must stop until the raan =
draft is done.<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I never said or meant =
to imply that the security draft must stop until RAAN is done.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">To the contrary, the two documents could =
run in parallel with both being dhcwg WG<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">items now and with no interdependencies. =
By adopting RAAN as a WG item now,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">implementers would be more likely to implement RAAN in =
parallel with sedhcpv6<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">rather than defer it to some (much) later time.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"">=C3=98<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span>It's =
just not that hard.<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Definitely agree.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks - Fred<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ted Lemon =
[<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:mellon@fugue.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Saturday, February 18, 2017 =
9:17 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Templin, Fred L &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;; =
Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Fred, I think we all agree that this =
problem needs to be solved. We don't agree that work on the security =
draft must stop until the raan draft is done. It's just not that =
hard.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Feb 18, 2017 11:28 =
AM, "Templin, Fred L" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; =
padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi Bernie,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">My understanding &nbsp;is that sedhcpv6 is =
intended to be a product of the IETF,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">so I therefore assume that it is intended =
to be a product of engineering. It</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">has=
 been shown that sedhcpv6 has an omission that will limit its =
applicability,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">and that that omission =
can be rather easily remedied prior to publication. It</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">therefore makes good engineering sense to =
fix the omission now.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The proposal again is =
to have sedhcpv6 specify the RAAN option as part of</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">the base document.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks - Fred</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; =
border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in =
4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bernie Volz (volz) =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, February 17, 2017 =
3:00 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Templin, Fred L &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;; Ted Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;;</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=
=93=89</span><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I =
think the plan here makes some sense =E2=80=A6 seDHCPv6 has had several =
attempts and been kicked back to the WG. So, I think the WG wants to go =
slowly and not develop a solution until seDHCPv6 is likely to advance in =
the IESG (encryption was only added fairly =E2=80=9Crecently=E2=80=9D).</s=
pan><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">And, it isn=E2=80=99t like the day after =
seDHCPv6 is =E2=80=9Capproved=E2=80=9D that every client (and server) =
will support this. It will take time to roll out. And, hopefully we can =
get the RAAN work out in a fairly short time.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">In your networks, if you can=E2=80=99t =
support seDHCPv6 until you have something to so solve the RAAN issues, =
you obviously can=E2=80=99t deploy seDHCPv6. But there may be plenty of =
other networks where this isn=E2=80=99t an issue and it could start to =
be deployed (coffee shops and enterprises).</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><p =
class=3D"m7690376594138111953msolistparagraph" style=3D"margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">-</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Templin, =
Fred L [<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, February 17, 2017 =
5:35 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Ted =
Lemon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">The =
discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the =
sedhcpv6</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 =
is done.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">This does not make sense to me; sedhcpv6 =
is the very reason that RAAN is important.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Just like RFC3971 did with IPv6 ND =
Timestamp and Nonce options, sedhcpv6 could</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">define the RAAN operation and have =
everything over and done with in one pass.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">And, I have already identified a use case =
where RAAN is absolutely necessary.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Also, I was unable to attend &nbsp;IETF97, where I certainly =
would have stood up and</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">voiced my position.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks - =
Fred</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; =
border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in =
4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg [<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Bernie Volz =
(volz)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, February 16, 2017 =
2:39 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ted Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I presented about =
resurrecting draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate at IETF-97 (see<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurrect=
-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurr=
ect-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf</a>).</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">And the conclusion then was (see<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt"=
 target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.t=
xt</a>):</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">The =
discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the =
sedhcpv6</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 =
is done.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><p class=3D"m7690376594138111953msolistparagraph" =
style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">-</span><span style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg [<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Ted Lemon<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, February 15, =
2017 1:49 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
'MS Mincho';" class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Menlo-Regular, serif;" =
class=3D"">I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, =
but, of<br class=3D"">course, the wg should decide it.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">It definitely isn't a blocking issue, but =
Fred is right that if we are going ahead with encryption-only, which I =
agree is the right move, we need to do this work as well.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></=
div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div></div><span style=3D"font-family:=
 Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">dhcwg mailing list</span><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg</a></span></div></b=
lockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
Thread-Index: AQHSkTcYLHgVrFA15kCLoS3gsOMP5aF9TAvA
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:33:32 +0000
Message-ID: <ce035fef09694414854203da8e55ad8a@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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--_000_ce035fef09694414854203da8e55ad8aXCHALN003ciscocom_--


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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Great! Thanks!

> Am 27.02.2017 um 20:36 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>=20
> Mirja,
>=20
> Thanks for your comment.  I will make two (identical) changes based
> on your suggestion:
>=20
> I will expand the first occurrence of the use of MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
> in Section 6.1.1 "Sending a CONNECT message", from the current:
>=20
>>   o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
>>      messages that this server is prepared to accept over the =
failover
>>      connection without causing the connection to block.
>=20
> to the following:
>=20
>   o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
>      messages that this server is prepared to accept over the failover
>      connection without causing the connection to block.  This is to
>      implement application level flow control over the connection, so
>      that a flood of BNDUPD messages does not cause the connection to =
block
>      and thereby prevent other messages from being transmitted=20
>      over the connection and received by the failover partner.
>=20
> I will also change the second place where OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
> is transmitted in Section 6.1.2 "Receiving a CONNECT message", where =
it
> discusses creating a CONNECTREPLY message, to say the same thing (as =
it
> currently has the same "current" text).
>=20
> Thanks -- Kim
>=20
>> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi Kim,
>>=20
>> sorry for my late reply. Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to =
me. I think slightly more explanation in the draft could be good to make =
clear that the TCP blocking itself is not the problem but that one kind =
of application layer message will block another kind which can lead to =
total blocking given only one TCP connection is used for all kind of =
message to reduce complexity in connection management. Because currently =
it reads a little like if there is a problem with TCP which is not =
really the case.
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>> Mirja
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Am 02.02.2017 um 18:43 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>>>=20
>>> Mirja,
>>>=20
>>> More comments, below...
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> [... removed already handled issue -- Kim]
>>>>=20
>>>>> 6.1.  Creating Connections
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD  =
is
>>>>>> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess =
you would
>>>>>> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not all =
message
>>>>>> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate =
that. And is
>>>>>> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
>>>>>> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the =
sending
>>>>>> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What =
will be
>>>>>> different if the sender knows in advance when it could =
potentially happen
>>>>>> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages =
quickly and
>>>>>> there is no excessive loss).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
>>>>> 	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
>>>>> 	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
>>>>> 	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
>>>>> 	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
>>>>> 	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
>>>>> 	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
>>>>> 	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
>>>>> 	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
>>>>> 	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
>>>>> 	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
>>>>> 	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
>>>>> 	designed to help that be true.
>>>>=20
>>>> So you mean this is purely an application parameter saying I will =
not process more than X messages at once (before sending out a =
BNDREPLY). So this is rather independent of any socket buffer =
configuration, expect that the buffer needs to be large enough to at =
least handle X (max-size) messages which maybe is a good thing to notice =
as well.
>>>=20
>>> 	This is an application parameter saying that I can accept up
>>> 	to X messages at once without blocking the TCP connection.
>>> 	That isn't in conflict with what you said, but is focused a
>>> 	bit differently.  It is independent of any socket buffer
>>> 	configuration -- this is application level flow control.
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> However, this basically means that you at sender-side anyway need a =
way to cache BNDUPD message that you are not allowed to send out yet. =
Why don=E2=80=99t you just basically set this value implicitly always to =
1 and say you can=E2=80=99t send another BNDUPD if an BNDREPLY is still =
outstanding=E2=80=A6? I would guess it=E2=80=99s anyway rather unlikely =
that you need to send more than one message at once, no?
>>>=20
>>> 	Servers frequently need send far more than one BNDUPD at once.
>>> 	The most extreme typical case is when one server is updating a
>>> 	partner which has been down with information about what has
>>> 	been happening while the partner was down.  This will generate
>>> 	thousands to tens of thousands of BNDUPD's.  When one server
>>> 	has lost its stable storage completely and needs to
>>> 	essentially be initialized by the other server, millions of
>>> 	BNDUPD's may need to flow across the link.
>>>=20
>>> 	Doing them one at a time, while technically correct, typically
>>> 	leaves a lot of performance on the table and could easily
>>> 	extend the time before the servers synchronize from seconds to
>>> 	tens of minutes (and possibly hours).  Many DHCP servers are
>>> 	multi-threaded and can process multiple BNDUPD's at the same
>>> 	time (though they may batch up the writes to the disk).  Thus,
>>> 	we would expect that most servers implementing this protocol
>>> 	would set this value to something substantial.
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
>>>>> 	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
>>>>> 	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
>>>>> 	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
>>>>> 	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
>>>>> 	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
>>>>> 	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
>>>>> 	the application-level flow control of the
>>>>> 	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.
>>>>=20
>>>> I would actually say that the overhead is rather low. Maybe one =
should discuss this option at least as one potential implementation =
possibility. The only hard requirement is that the receiver side would =
be able to process message coming from different connections from the =
same endpoint, which I assume would be easy given you anyway have to =
handle different connections from different endpoints, no?
>>>=20
>>> 	Having different implementation possibilities in something as
>>> 	basic as connection management in a protocol already this
>>> 	complex is something we have tried hard to avoid, and we could
>>> 	only justify it if it were necessary to solve a very pressing
>>> 	problem.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks -- Kim
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


From nobody Mon Feb 27 13:09:36 2017
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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I support adoption of this draft in the DHC WG.

- Bernie (w/DHC WG co-chair hat off)

-----Original Message-----
From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tomek Mrugalski
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:38 PM
To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Cc: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>; draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt=
@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 =
- Respond by Mar 8th, 2017

Hi,

This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:

Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
Pages: 9
Date: 2017-02-01
Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07

This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)
and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.

This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh
in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.

Bernie & Tomek

_______________________________________________
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From nobody Mon Feb 27 13:38:55 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : DHCPv6 Failover Protocol
        Authors         : Tomasz Mrugalski
                          Kim Kinnear
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06.txt
	Pages           : 94
	Date            : 2017-02-27

Abstract:
   DHCPv6 as defined in "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6
   (DHCPv6)" (RFC3315) does not offer server redundancy.  This document
   defines a protocol implementation to provide DHCPv6 failover, a
   mechanism for running two servers with the capability for either
   server to take over clients' leases in case of server failure or
   network partition.  It meets the requirements for DHCPv6 failover
   detailed in "DHCPv6 Failover Requirements" (RFC7031).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Feb 27 13:50:47 2017
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References: <148599922705.18700.14648245113952484559.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2BD6519B-F6AC-4630-8666-13D3ED54054C@cisco.com> <8f0ee693-8fd9-0202-209d-09b503f2231b@cs.tcd.ie> <74FB30F1-234A-4D1C-BF3C-ED4DAA4C3F4E@cisco.com>
To: dhc-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol@ietf.org, "<dhcwg@ietf.org>" <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Comments on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-04
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I have submitted a new version of the DHCPv6 Failover Protocol:

 draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06

=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/=
>

which reflects the final changes resulting from the IESG and
directorate reviews to date.  All of these changes are to explain
things more clearly or explicitly.  None of them alter the intended
operation of the protocol.

The first two changes resulted from a COMMENT by Mirja Kuhlewind.

* Expanded the first occurrence of the use of MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
  in Section 6.1.1 "Sending a CONNECT message", from the current:

>   o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
>      messages that this server is prepared to accept over the failover
>      connection without causing the connection to block.

  to the following:

  o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of BNDUPD
     messages that this server is prepared to accept over the failover
     connection without causing the connection to block.  This is to
     implement application level flow control over the connection, so
     that a flood of BNDUPD messages does not cause the connection to =
block
     and thereby prevent other messages from being transmitted=20
     over the connection and received by the failover partner.

* Changed the second place where OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
  is transmitted in Section 6.1.2 "Receiving a CONNECT message", where
  it discusses creating a CONNECTREPLY message, to say the same thing
  as above (as it currently has the same "current" text).

* Fixed several typographical errors observed while making the above
  changes (OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was referenced as
  OPTION_F_UNACKED_BNDUPD).

* Added a missing "a" in recently added paragraph in Security
  Considerations section.

Regards -- Kim






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Thanks Mirja. Yours was the last pending comment. I will go ahead and =
approve the document.

Regards
Suresh

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>=20
> Great! Thanks!
>=20
>> Am 27.02.2017 um 20:36 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>>=20
>> Mirja,
>>=20
>> Thanks for your comment.  I will make two (identical) changes based
>> on your suggestion:
>>=20
>> I will expand the first occurrence of the use of MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
>> in Section 6.1.1 "Sending a CONNECT message", from the current:
>>=20
>>>  o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
>>>     messages that this server is prepared to accept over the =
failover
>>>     connection without causing the connection to block.
>>=20
>> to the following:
>>=20
>>  o  OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD containing the maximum number of =
BNDUPD
>>     messages that this server is prepared to accept over the failover
>>     connection without causing the connection to block.  This is to
>>     implement application level flow control over the connection, so
>>     that a flood of BNDUPD messages does not cause the connection to =
block
>>     and thereby prevent other messages from being transmitted=20
>>     over the connection and received by the failover partner.
>>=20
>> I will also change the second place where OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD
>> is transmitted in Section 6.1.2 "Receiving a CONNECT message", where =
it
>> discusses creating a CONNECTREPLY message, to say the same thing (as =
it
>> currently has the same "current" text).
>>=20
>> Thanks -- Kim
>>=20
>>> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi Kim,
>>>=20
>>> sorry for my late reply. Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense to =
me. I think slightly more explanation in the draft could be good to make =
clear that the TCP blocking itself is not the problem but that one kind =
of application layer message will block another kind which can lead to =
total blocking given only one TCP connection is used for all kind of =
message to reduce complexity in connection management. Because currently =
it reads a little like if there is a problem with TCP which is not =
really the case.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks!
>>> Mirja
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> Am 02.02.2017 um 18:43 schrieb kkinnear <kkinnear@cisco.com>:
>>>>=20
>>>> Mirja,
>>>>=20
>>>> More comments, below...
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Feb 2, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) =
<ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> [... removed already handled issue -- Kim]
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 6.1.  Creating Connections
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> - Also not really clear to me is why OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD =
 is
>>>>>>> needed and how the server should know the right value. I guess =
you would
>>>>>>> want to calculate this based on the send buffer, however, not =
all message
>>>>>>> have the same size and as such I don't know how to calculate =
that. And is
>>>>>>> that really needed? If messages will not be accepted by the =
receiver-side
>>>>>>> server, the receive window will be zero and the socket on the =
sending
>>>>>>> side will be blocked; no additional message can be send. What =
will be
>>>>>>> different if the sender knows in advance when it could =
potentially happen
>>>>>>> (but also might not if the other end processes the messages =
quickly and
>>>>>>> there is no excessive loss).
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 	The intent here is to keep the TCP connection unblocked, so
>>>>>> 	that information can flow in both directions.  If one
>>>>>> 	direction is is maxed out, it shouldn't keep information from
>>>>>> 	flowing in the other direction.  At a TCP level it won't, but
>>>>>> 	at an application level it will.  Much of the failover
>>>>>> 	information flow involves one server sending a BNDUPD and then
>>>>>> 	the partner sends a BNDREPLY.  If one server server sends more
>>>>>> 	BNDUPD's than the other server can absorb, the TCP connection
>>>>>> 	will block.  This will mean that any BNDREPLY's from the
>>>>>> 	server that sent the BNDUPD's will also be blocked.  Ideally,
>>>>>> 	the BNDUPD->BNDREPLY flow from each server to the other would
>>>>>> 	be independent, and the OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD count is
>>>>>> 	designed to help that be true.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So you mean this is purely an application parameter saying I will =
not process more than X messages at once (before sending out a =
BNDREPLY). So this is rather independent of any socket buffer =
configuration, expect that the buffer needs to be large enough to at =
least handle X (max-size) messages which maybe is a good thing to notice =
as well.
>>>>=20
>>>> 	This is an application parameter saying that I can accept up
>>>> 	to X messages at once without blocking the TCP connection.
>>>> 	That isn't in conflict with what you said, but is focused a
>>>> 	bit differently.  It is independent of any socket buffer
>>>> 	configuration -- this is application level flow control.
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> However, this basically means that you at sender-side anyway need =
a way to cache BNDUPD message that you are not allowed to send out yet. =
Why don=E2=80=99t you just basically set this value implicitly always to =
1 and say you can=E2=80=99t send another BNDUPD if an BNDREPLY is still =
outstanding=E2=80=A6? I would guess it=E2=80=99s anyway rather unlikely =
that you need to send more than one message at once, no?
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Servers frequently need send far more than one BNDUPD at once.
>>>> 	The most extreme typical case is when one server is updating a
>>>> 	partner which has been down with information about what has
>>>> 	been happening while the partner was down.  This will generate
>>>> 	thousands to tens of thousands of BNDUPD's.  When one server
>>>> 	has lost its stable storage completely and needs to
>>>> 	essentially be initialized by the other server, millions of
>>>> 	BNDUPD's may need to flow across the link.
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Doing them one at a time, while technically correct, typically
>>>> 	leaves a lot of performance on the table and could easily
>>>> 	extend the time before the servers synchronize from seconds to
>>>> 	tens of minutes (and possibly hours).  Many DHCP servers are
>>>> 	multi-threaded and can process multiple BNDUPD's at the same
>>>> 	time (though they may batch up the writes to the disk).  Thus,
>>>> 	we would expect that most servers implementing this protocol
>>>> 	would set this value to something substantial.
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 	Additionally, there are messages other than BNDUPD/BNDREPLY
>>>>>> 	(e.g. STATE, DISCONNECT, UPDDONE) that are important to
>>>>>> 	transmit from one server to the other and not have backed up
>>>>>> 	behind a blocked TCP connection that has been overloaded with
>>>>>> 	BNDUPD's for the partner to process.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 	We could have created a separate TCP connection for these
>>>>>> 	control messages, but the overhead of doing that (and
>>>>>> 	specifying that) was great enough that it seemed like using
>>>>>> 	the application-level flow control of the
>>>>>> 	OPTION_F_MAX_UNACKED_BNDUPD was a good tradeoff.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I would actually say that the overhead is rather low. Maybe one =
should discuss this option at least as one potential implementation =
possibility. The only hard requirement is that the receiver side would =
be able to process message coming from different connections from the =
same endpoint, which I assume would be easy given you anyway have to =
handle different connections from different endpoints, no?
>>>>=20
>>>> 	Having different implementation possibilities in something as
>>>> 	basic as connection management in a protocol already this
>>>> 	complex is something we have tried hard to avoid, and we could
>>>> 	only justify it if it were necessary to solve a very pressing
>>>> 	problem.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks -- Kim
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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From: tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 21:24:38 +0800
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Cc: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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--001a1141995a8b7351054997202e
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Hi all,

I participated in the review of this draft, I think it is an important
document for the dynamic provisioning of some 4over6 Softwire mechanisms. I
support its adoption.

Cheers,
Tianxiang

2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:
>
> Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
> Pages: 9
> Date: 2017-02-01
> Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
> Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
>
> This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
> Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)
> and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
> adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.
>
> This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh
> in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
> though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.
>
> Bernie & Tomek
>
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
>

--001a1141995a8b7351054997202e
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px">=
I participated in the review of this draft, I think it is an important docu=
ment for the dynamic provisioning of some 4over6 Softwire mechanisms. I sup=
port its adoption.</span><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>=
</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Cheers,</span></div><div><=
span style=3D"font-size:14px">Tianxiang</span></div></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mr=
ugalski <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:<br>
<br>
Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option<br>
Pages: 9<br>
Date: 2017-02-01<br>
Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-<wbr>saddr-opt-07<br>
Link: <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-sadd=
r-opt-07" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fs=
c-<wbr>softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07</a><br>
<br>
This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in<br>
Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)<br>
and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC<br>
adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.<br>
<br>
This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh<br>
in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,<br>
though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.<br>
<br>
Bernie &amp; Tomek<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
dhcwg mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org">dhcwg@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/dhcwg</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1141995a8b7351054997202e--


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From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
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Thread-Topic: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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+1

Saludos,
Jordi
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Softwires <softwires-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de tianxiang li <peter416733@gmail.com>
Responder a: <peter416733@gmail.com>
Fecha: martes, 28 de febrero de 2017, 14:24
Para: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
CC: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, <draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org>
Asunto: Re: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017

    Hi all,
    I participated in the review of this draft, I think it is an important document for the dynamic provisioning of some 4over6 Softwire mechanisms. I support its adoption.
    
    
    Cheers,
    Tianxiang
    
    
    2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>:
    
    Hi,
    
    This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:
    
    Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
    Pages: 9
    Date: 2017-02-01
    Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
    Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 <http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07>
    
    This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
    Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Suresh)
    and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
    adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.
    
    This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts weigh
    in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
    though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciated.
    
    Bernie & Tomek
    
    _______________________________________________
    dhcwg mailing list
    dhcwg@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
    
    
    
    
    
    _______________________________________________
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    Softwires@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires
    



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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 15:34:58 +0100
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <73A065E1-9BA8-4CED-A0E7-FB20CCFD22E0@consulintel.es>
Thread-Topic: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
References: <eb9edb80-f977-c67c-57b9-bcf989374ab9@gmail.com> <CAFx+hENmqjQWzy=rFQ0obd2arWyOoRiNxPWnkABBDh06K7GMcw@mail.gmail.com> <28B67AF7-8C70-467E-9D31-606291FB539F@consulintel.es>
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Cc: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Softwires] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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By the way =E2=80=A6

While working in draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-01, I have reviewed all the =
documents to be included as CE requirements for different transition mechan=
isms, and one of them is RFC7598.
   =20
Then I was looking at your document draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07=
 and I was surprised to read that this document, if approved, will update R=
FC7568.
   =20
RFC7568 is about SSL 3.0.
   =20
So, my guess is that you meant to update RFC7598?
   =20
Just so the authors can update the XML to avoid this error to go on ...

Regards,
Jordi
=20

-----Mensaje original-----
De: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Fecha: martes, 28 de febrero de 2017, 14:45
Para: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>
CC: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, <draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org>
Asunto: Re: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o=
6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017

    +1
   =20
    Saludos,
    Jordi
    =20
   =20
    -----Mensaje original-----
    De: Softwires <softwires-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de tianxiang li <p=
eter416733@gmail.com>
    Responder a: <peter416733@gmail.com>
    Fecha: martes, 28 de febrero de 2017, 14:24
    Para: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
    CC: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, <draft-f=
sc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org>
    Asunto: Re: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dh=
cp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
   =20
        Hi all,
        I participated in the review of this draft, I think it is an import=
ant document for the dynamic provisioning of some 4over6 Softwire mechanism=
s. I support its adoption.
       =20
       =20
        Cheers,
        Tianxiang
       =20
       =20
        2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.c=
om>:
       =20
        Hi,
       =20
        This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call on:
       =20
        Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
        Pages: 9
        Date: 2017-02-01
        Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
        Link: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 <=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07>
       =20
        This document initially started as work intended to be adopted in
        Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD (Sure=
sh)
        and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for DHC
        adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.
       =20
        This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire experts w=
eigh
        in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC list,
        though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much appreciate=
d.
       =20
        Bernie & Tomek
       =20
        _______________________________________________
        dhcwg mailing list
        dhcwg@ietf.org
        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
       =20
       =20
       =20
       =20
       =20
        _______________________________________________
        Softwires mailing list
        Softwires@ietf.org
        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires
       =20
   =20



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.consulintel.es
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con=
fidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(=
s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any dis=
closure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, =
including attached files, is prohibited.




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Cc: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Softwires] Adoption call for draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
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Hi Jordi,

Thanks for that. Will fix in the next update.

Regards,
Ian

> On 28 Feb 2017, at 15:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ =
<jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
>=20
> By the way =E2=80=A6
>=20
> While working in draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-01, I have reviewed all =
the documents to be included as CE requirements for different transition =
mechanisms, and one of them is RFC7598.
>=20
> Then I was looking at your document =
draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 and I was surprised to read that =
this document, if approved, will update RFC7568.
>=20
> RFC7568 is about SSL 3.0.
>=20
> So, my guess is that you meant to update RFC7598?
>=20
> Just so the authors can update the XML to avoid this error to go on =
...
>=20
> Regards,
> Jordi
>=20
>=20
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
> Fecha: martes, 28 de febrero de 2017, 14:45
> Para: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>
> CC: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, =
<draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org>
> Asunto: Re: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for =
draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
>=20
>    +1
>=20
>    Saludos,
>    Jordi
>=20
>=20
>    -----Mensaje original-----
>    De: Softwires <softwires-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de tianxiang =
li <peter416733@gmail.com>
>    Responder a: <peter416733@gmail.com>
>    Fecha: martes, 28 de febrero de 2017, 14:24
>    Para: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>
>    CC: Softwires-wg <softwires@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, =
<draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt@ietf.org>
>    Asunto: Re: [Softwires] [dhcwg] Adoption call for =
draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 - Respond by Mar 8th, 2017
>=20
>        Hi all,
>        I participated in the review of this draft, I think it is an =
important document for the dynamic provisioning of some 4over6 Softwire =
mechanisms. I support its adoption.
>=20
>=20
>        Cheers,
>        Tianxiang
>=20
>=20
>        2017-02-23 1:37 GMT+08:00 Tomek Mrugalski =
<tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>:
>=20
>        Hi,
>=20
>        This message initiates a two weeks long DHC WG adoption call =
on:
>=20
>        Title: DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 Source Address Option
>        Pages: 9
>        Date: 2017-02-01
>        Document: draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07
>        Link: =
tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07 =
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fsc-softwire-dhcp4o6-saddr-opt-07>
>=20
>        This document initially started as work intended to be adopted =
in
>        Softwires, but after a discussion with chairs, responsible AD =
(Suresh)
>        and presenting this work in DHC, the conclusion is to aim for =
DHC
>        adoption, not Softwires. Therefore this is a DHC adoption call.
>=20
>        This message is cross-posted to Softwires to let Softwire =
experts weigh
>        in their opinion. Please be sure to post your comments to DHC =
list,
>        though. Comments sent by end of March 8th, 2017 are much =
appreciated.
>=20
>        Bernie & Tomek
>=20
>        _______________________________________________
>        dhcwg mailing list
>        dhcwg@ietf.org
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>        _______________________________________________
>        Softwires mailing list
>        Softwires@ietf.org
>        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.consulintel.es
> The IPv6 Company
>=20
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged =
or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the =
individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be =
aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents =
of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Softwires mailing list
> Softwires@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/softwires


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From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>, Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 16:55:40 +0000
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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From: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 14:33:21 -0500
In-Reply-To: <ce035fef09694414854203da8e55ad8a@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
References: <148455739520.22478.14651605359463322132.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAJ3w4NdCk8CBfNagcXT_VW_50+=xK=N7aB5HHqqn3stMt7Gy-Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAJE_bqf_AP9w1Bh_5kSB4YkLaV9XJ1tngufAiOMxVqQLwMruNA@mail.gmail.com> <aba52c11e462426bb3cbf66fcdca7783@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CAJE_bqcG004FuUkKa0Xk1AiOo-bO4aHweYDpxMeeg+_=dSK6FQ@mail.gmail.com> <5c9ed55cfdc94456baf19740ba62910c@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CAJE_bqeshAHmvGukto+PKs_skVPF5bnukvw8+5_04YEx_6m_sQ@mail.gmail.com> <ABDD8B01-EC93-4ADD-AF59-57332A9C255E@fugue.com> <9d9d50b20005459aafffcd8f64bfb281@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <21bd317edc764fc89dc4a13aa541b1c1@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <3e5776023c0d447aaccb81dc8ec8724a@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <49129cb6c19c4be3bd483ceb3312bd72@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <CAPt1N1nuL8dPWc_o_je9C5YGwVOC-jn412U2Z367RFBrgebO+A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1kt51wpxwp94RyYGTtgYpWvBs8qxhHp5F0XOML39TRiEw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1ndGDz2q3ZRpzb1o51QyfzQHEZFNc0w-NmS1-Seak53-g@mail.gmail.com> <5109024ddba44de9a3270e58a4c3270a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <D02D0C01-D483-40C8-B1E1-51862869E8CB@gmail.com> <ce035fef09694414854203da8e55ad8a@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>
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Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
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	charset=utf-8

Bernie - thanks for the status update on doc WG interest in RAAN.

Converting the existing document to XML is probably a good place to =
start.  A discussion on the list about restarting as an individual =
document or picking back up again as a WG document would likely also =
give you a sense of who might be interested in seeing the standard =
developed and published.  I don't have a sense of the intersection of =
deployments of seDHCP with really agent snooping, so I don't have a good =
way to judge potential interest.

I'll be happy to stay on as a co-author.

- Ralph

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi:
> =20
> I would think we would start with the current RAAN document (I think =
we can easily create the XML from the TXT; would have been easier not to =
have to do that if XML was available).
> =20
> We haven=E2=80=99t discussed it seriously in the WG yet, and no one =
has requested time to discuss further at IETF-98 (Chicago). Though of =
course we can do it here on the ML.
> =20
> My hope would be that we can restart this work perhaps between Chicago =
and Prague, as hopefully seDHCPv6 will go to WGLC sometime soon. But of =
course, seDHCPv6 has been there before and it was in the IESG that it =
was bounced back to the WG =E2=80=93 though hopefully third time will be =
the charm?
> =20
> When it is time, I was just planning to do the conversion and resubmit =
it as the next version of the RAAN document (perhaps with minor edits). =
I guess though there is the question of whether we should =E2=80=9Crestart=
=E2=80=9D as an individual submission or whether the WG just agrees to =
resume work on this document as a WG document. Anyway, we can debate =
that on the list before publication.
> =20
> Of course, also need to also check with the co-authors (you and Ole) =
to see how best to proceed. I had assumed you both would stay on =E2=80=A6=

> =20
> At present, the only one really pushing for this to start now is Fred =
T.
> =20
> -          Bernie
> =20
> From: Ralph Droms [mailto:rdroms.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>]=20
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 3:22 PM
> To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com <mailto:volz@cisco.com>>
> Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>; dhcwg =
<dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=
=89<jinmei@wide.ad.jp <mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>; Templin, Fred L =
<Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> Bernie - a long time ago, if I recall correctly, you asked me if I had =
XML source for the earlier RAAN document.  I searched around, but can't =
seem to find that file.  Is the text in that earlier doc at all useful =
for this instantiation of RAAN?
> =20
> - Ralph
> =20
> On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Templin, Fred L =
<Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> wrote:
> =20
> Hi Ted,
> =20
> Just getting back to this after being away for the past week:
> =20
> =C3=98  Fred, I think we all agree that this problem needs to be =
solved.
> =20
> I still think it would be cleanest and most consistent with past works =
if the base
> sedhcpv6 specification were to include the RAAN option itself. But, if =
that would
> not be possible and if (as you say) there is agreement that this =
problem needs
> to be solved, then we should adopt the RAAN draft as a dhcwg working =
group
> item now.
> =20
> =C3=98  We don't agree that work on the security draft must stop until =
the raan draft is done.
> =20
> I never said or meant to imply that the security draft must stop until =
RAAN is done.
> To the contrary, the two documents could run in parallel with both =
being dhcwg WG
> items now and with no interdependencies. By adopting RAAN as a WG item =
now,
> implementers would be more likely to implement RAAN in parallel with =
sedhcpv6
> rather than defer it to some (much) later time.
> =20
> =C3=98  It's just not that hard.
> =20
> Definitely agree.
> =20
> Thanks - Fred
> =20
> From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>]=20
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 9:17 AM
> To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=
=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp <mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>; Bernie =
Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com <mailto:volz@cisco.com>>
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> Fred, I think we all agree that this problem needs to be solved. We =
don't agree that work on the security draft must stop until the raan =
draft is done. It's just not that hard.=20
> =20
> On Feb 18, 2017 11:28 AM, "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> wrote:
> Hi Bernie,
> =20
> My understanding  is that sedhcpv6 is intended to be a product of the =
IETF,
> so I therefore assume that it is intended to be a product of =
engineering. It
> has been shown that sedhcpv6 has an omission that will limit its =
applicability,
> and that that omission can be rather easily remedied prior to =
publication. It
> therefore makes good engineering sense to fix the omission now.
> =20
> The proposal again is to have sedhcpv6 specify the RAAN option as part =
of
> the base document.
> =20
> Thanks - Fred
> =20
> From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com =
<mailto:volz@cisco.com>]=20
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>; Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com =
<mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>;=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =
<jinmei@wide.ad.jp <mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
>=20
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> I think the plan here makes some sense =E2=80=A6 seDHCPv6 has had =
several attempts and been kicked back to the WG. So, I think the WG =
wants to go slowly and not develop a solution until seDHCPv6 is likely =
to advance in the IESG (encryption was only added fairly =
=E2=80=9Crecently=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> And, it isn=E2=80=99t like the day after seDHCPv6 is =E2=80=9Capproved=E2=
=80=9D that every client (and server) will support this. It will take =
time to roll out. And, hopefully we can get the RAAN work out in a =
fairly short time.
> =20
> In your networks, if you can=E2=80=99t support seDHCPv6 until you have =
something to so solve the RAAN issues, you obviously can=E2=80=99t =
deploy seDHCPv6. But there may be plenty of other networks where this =
isn=E2=80=99t an issue and it could start to be deployed (coffee shops =
and enterprises).
> =20
> -          Bernie
>=20
> =20
> From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com =
<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>]=20
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 5:35 PM
> To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com <mailto:volz@cisco.com>>; Ted =
Lemon <mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>; =
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89<jinmei@wide.ad.jp =
<mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> Bernie,
> =20
> The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the sedhcpv6
> I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.
> =20
> This does not make sense to me; sedhcpv6 is the very reason that RAAN =
is important.
> Just like RFC3971 did with IPv6 ND Timestamp and Nonce options, =
sedhcpv6 could
> define the RAAN operation and have everything over and done with in =
one pass.
> And, I have already identified a use case where RAAN is absolutely =
necessary.
> Also, I was unable to attend  IETF97, where I certainly would have =
stood up and
> voiced my position.
> =20
> Thanks - Fred
> =20
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:39 PM
> To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>>; =
=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp =
<mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> I presented about resurrecting draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate =
at IETF-97 =
(seehttps://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurrect-dra=
ft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurrect-draft-=
ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf>).
> =20
> And the conclusion then was (see =
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt>):
> =20
> The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the sedhcpv6
> I-D progresses further. We will reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.
> =20
> -          Bernie
>=20
> =20
> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org =
<mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Ted Lemon
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:49 PM
> To: =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp =
<mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>>
> Cc: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New Version Notification for =
draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt
> =20
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =
<jinmei@wide.ad.jp <mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp>> wrote:
> I personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of
> course, the wg should decide it.
> =20
> It definitely isn't a blocking issue, but Fred is right that if we are =
going ahead with encryption-only, which I agree is the right move, we =
need to do this work as well.
> =20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg>

--Apple-Mail=_79BEE41A-1267-495B-B54C-7290C98D2697
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Bernie - thanks for the status update on doc WG interest in =
RAAN.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Converting the =
existing document to XML is probably a good place to start. &nbsp;A =
discussion on the list about restarting as an individual document or =
picking back up again as a WG document would likely also give you a =
sense of who might be interested in seeing the standard developed and =
published. &nbsp;I don't have a sense of the intersection of deployments =
of seDHCP with really agent snooping, so I don't have a good way to =
judge potential interest.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I'll be happy to stay on as a co-author.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">- Ralph</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Feb 27, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I would think we would =
start with the current RAAN document (I think we can easily create the =
XML from the TXT; would have been easier not to have to do that if XML =
was available).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">We haven=E2=80=99t =
discussed it seriously in the WG yet, and no one has requested time to =
discuss further at IETF-98 (Chicago). Though of course we can do it here =
on the ML.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">My hope would be that =
we can restart this work perhaps between Chicago and Prague, as =
hopefully seDHCPv6 will go to WGLC sometime soon. But of course, =
seDHCPv6 has been there before and it was in the IESG that it was =
bounced back to the WG =E2=80=93 though hopefully third time will be the =
charm?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">When it is time, I was =
just planning to do the conversion and resubmit it as the next version =
of the RAAN document (perhaps with minor edits). I guess though there is =
the question of whether we should =E2=80=9Crestart=E2=80=9D as an =
individual submission or whether the WG just agrees to resume work on =
this document as a WG document. Anyway, we can debate that on the list =
before publication.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Of course, also need to =
also check with the co-authors (you and Ole) to see how best to proceed. =
I had assumed you both would stay on =E2=80=A6<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">At present, the only =
one really pushing for this to start now is Fred T.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-indent: -0.25in;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"">-<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; =
line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ralph =
Droms [<a href=3D"mailto:rdroms.ietf@gmail.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:rdroms.ietf@gmail.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, February 27, 2017 =
3:22 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ted =
Lemon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;; dhcwg =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;;=
 Templin, Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [dhcwg] New Version =
Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">Bernie - a long time ago, if I recall correctly, you asked me =
if I had XML source for the earlier RAAN document. &nbsp;I searched =
around, but can't seem to find that file. &nbsp;Is the text in that =
earlier doc at all useful for this instantiation of RAAN?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">- Ralph<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Feb 27, 2017, at =
3:17 PM, Templin, Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Ted,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Just getting back to this after being away =
for the past week:</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=C3=98</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>Fred, I think we all =
agree that this problem needs to be solved.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I still think it would =
be cleanest and most consistent with past works if the base</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">sedhcpv6 specification =
were to include the RAAN option itself. But, if that would</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">not be possible and if =
(as you say) there is agreement that this problem needs</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">to be solved, then we =
should adopt the RAAN draft as a dhcwg working group</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">item now.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=C3=98</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>We don't agree that =
work on the security draft must stop until the raan draft is done.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I never said or meant =
to imply that the security draft must stop until RAAN is =
done.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">To =
the contrary, the two documents could run in parallel with both being =
dhcwg WG</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">items now and with no interdependencies. By adopting RAAN as =
a WG item now,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">implementers would be more likely to =
implement RAAN in parallel with sedhcpv6</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">rather than defer it to =
some (much) later time.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=C3=98</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>It's just not that =
hard.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Definitely agree.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks - =
Fred</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Ted Lemon [<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mailto:mellon@fugue.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Saturday, February 18, 2017 =
9:17 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Templin, Fred L &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</a>&gt;;=
 Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">Fred, I think we all agree that this =
problem needs to be solved. We don't agree that work on the security =
draft must stop until the raan draft is done. It's just not that =
hard.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">On Feb 18, 2017 11:28 AM, "Templin, Fred =
L" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); =
border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt =
4.8pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Hi =
Bernie,</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">My understanding &nbsp;is that sedhcpv6 is =
intended to be a product of the IETF,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">so I therefore assume =
that it is intended to be a product of engineering. It</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">has been shown that =
sedhcpv6 has an omission that will limit its applicability,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">and that that omission =
can be rather easily remedied prior to publication. It</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">therefore makes good =
engineering sense to fix the omission now.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The proposal again is =
to have sedhcpv6 specify the RAAN option as part of</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">the base =
document.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks - Fred</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in =
0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, February 17, 2017 =
3:00 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Templin, Fred L &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</span></a>&gt;; Ted Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</span></a>&gt;;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</span></a>&gt;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I think the plan here =
makes some sense =E2=80=A6 seDHCPv6 has had several attempts and been =
kicked back to the WG. So, I think the WG wants to go slowly and not =
develop a solution until seDHCPv6 is likely to advance in the IESG =
(encryption was only added fairly =E2=80=9Crecently=E2=80=9D).</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">And, it isn=E2=80=99t =
like the day after seDHCPv6 is =E2=80=9Capproved=E2=80=9D that every =
client (and server) will support this. It will take time to roll out. =
And, hopefully we can get the RAAN work out in a fairly short =
time.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">In your networks, if you can=E2=80=99t =
support seDHCPv6 until you have something to so solve the RAAN issues, =
you obviously can=E2=80=99t deploy seDHCPv6. But there may be plenty of =
other networks where this isn=E2=80=99t an issue and it could start to =
be deployed (coffee shops and enterprises).</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p =
class=3D"m7690376594138111953msolistparagraph" style=3D"margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">-</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Templin, Fred L [<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, February 17, 2017 =
5:35 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Bernie Volz (volz) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:volz@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">volz@cisco.com</span></a>&gt;; Ted Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</span></a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</span></a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie,</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the =
sedhcpv6</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">I-D progresses further. We will =
reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">This does not make =
sense to me; sedhcpv6 is the very reason that RAAN is =
important.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">Just like RFC3971 did with IPv6 ND Timestamp and Nonce =
options, sedhcpv6 could</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">define the RAAN operation and have =
everything over and done with in one pass.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">And, I have already =
identified a use case where RAAN is absolutely necessary.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Also, I was unable to =
attend &nbsp;IETF97, where I certainly would have stood up =
and</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">voiced my position.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thanks - =
Fred</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">dhcwg [<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Bernie Volz =
(volz)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, February 16, 2017 =
2:39 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ted Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">mellon@fugue.com</span></a>&gt;;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</span></a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">I presented about =
resurrecting draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate at IETF-97 (see<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurrect=
-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-dhc-resurr=
ect-draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-00.pdf</span></a>).</span><o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">And the conclusion then =
was (see<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.txt"=
 target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-dhc-00.t=
xt</span></a>):</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" =
class=3D"">The discussion gravitated towards not resurrecting until the =
sedhcpv6</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';" class=3D"">I-D progresses further. We will =
reevaluate this once sedhcpv6 is done.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><p =
class=3D"m7690376594138111953msolistparagraph" style=3D"margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">-</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Bernie</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">dhcwg [<a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Ted Lemon<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Wednesday, February 15, =
2017 1:49 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'MS Gothic';" =
class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"color: purple;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</span></a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>dhcwg &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: purple;" =
class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [dhcwg] Fwd: New =
Version Notification for draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6-20.txt</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">On Feb 15, 2017, at 1:32 PM,<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: =
'MS Mincho';" class=3D"">=E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jinmei@wide.ad.jp" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"color: =
purple;" class=3D"">jinmei@wide.ad.jp</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Menlo-Regular;" class=3D"">I =
personally don't think it a blocking issue for sedhcpv6, but, of<br =
class=3D"">course, the wg should decide it.</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">It definitely isn't a blocking issue, but =
Fred is right that if we are going ahead with encryption-only, which I =
agree is the right move, we need to do this work as well.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Menlo-Regular;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">dhcwg mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
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class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg</a></span></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_79BEE41A-1267-495B-B54C-7290C98D2697--


From nobody Tue Feb 28 15:01:53 2017
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Cc: Bernie Volz <volz@cisco.com>, dhc-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Subject: [dhcwg] Protocol Action: 'DHCPv6 Failover Protocol' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'DHCPv6 Failover Protocol'
  (draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Dynamic Host Configuration Working
Group.

The IESG contact persons are Suresh Krishnan and Terry Manderson.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol/





Technical Summary

This document defines a protocol implementation to provide DHCPv6
failover, a mechanism for running two servers with the capability
for either server to take over clients' leases in case of server
failure or network partition.  It meets the requirements for DHCPv6
failover detailed in "DHCPv6 Failover Requirements" (RFC7031).

Working Group Summary

There is a strong consensus behind this document in the working group and in particular from
very active participants of the dhc WG.

Document Quality

This document has had thorough reviews by many interested and
knowledgeable folks, and is based on the DHCPv4 failover design
which had many years of review but never made it to the IESG.
There were no significant points of difficulty or controversy
with the contents of the document.

There is a commercial product (Cisco Prime Network Registrar) that
has implemented a protocol that is very similar to the draft protocol
and it has been deployed in large service provider's networks (as well
as many other deployments).

Personnel

Bernie Volz is the document shepherd. Suresh Krishnan is the
responsible AD. 


From nobody Tue Feb 28 15:08:26 2017
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From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Subject: [dhcwg] Fwd: New I-D: SLAAC and DHCPv6 (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration-00.txt)
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Folks,

FYI. Discussion is taking place on the v6ops wg mailing-list.

Thanks!

Best regards,
Fernando




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New I-D: SLAAC and DHCPv6 (Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration-00.txt)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 05:13:25 -0300
From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
To: IPv6 Operations <v6ops@ietf.org>

Folks,

Based on a recent discussion regarding the problem of conveying DNS
information in IPv6 networks, we have submitted this short I-D, in the
hopes of getting the aforementioned problem solved.

Your feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks!
Fernando (and co-autors)




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration-00.txt
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:51:03 -0800
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Gert Doering
<gert@space.net>, Madelen Garcia Corbo <madelen.garcia16@gmail.com>,
Madelen Corbo <madelen.garcia16@gmail.com>, Guillermo Gont
<ggont@si6networks.com>


A new version of I-D, draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Fernando Gont and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration
Revision:	00
Title:		On the Dynamic/Automatic Configuration of IPv6 Hosts
Document date:	2017-02-27
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		6
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration-00.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration/
Htmlized:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gont-v6ops-host-configuration-00


Abstract:
   IPv6 has two different mechanisms for dynamic/automatic host
   configuration: SLAAC and DHCPv6.  These two mechanisms allow for the
   configuration of IPv6 addresses and a number of network parameters.
   While there is overlap in the parameters that can be configured via
   these two protocols, different implementations support only subsets
   of such parameters with either mechanism, or have no support for
   DHCPv6 at all.  This document analyzes a problem that arises from
   this situation, and mandates that all host implementations support
   RFC 6105 (DNS options for SLAAC) and the stateless DHCPv6
   functionality in RFC 3315.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



From nobody Tue Feb 28 19:05:25 2017
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Subject: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

        Title           : Generalized UDP Source Port for DHCP Relay
        Authors         : Naiming Shen
                          Enke Chen
	Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2017-02-28

Abstract:
   This document proposes an extension to the DHCP and DHCPv6 protocols
   that allows any valid number to be used as the relay agent UDP source
   port for DHCP packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From nobody Tue Feb 28 19:10:40 2017
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From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" <naiming@cisco.com>
To: dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02.txt
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--_000_D4FA44D32F8E4B68815C2402D821E4BDciscocom_
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Hi dhcwg,

We have updated the dhc-relay-port draft. The changes:

   o  Added the Terminology section.

   o  Defined the Sub-option and Option names for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6.

   o  Added the DHCPv6 cascaded relay agents example.

Please review and comment.

thanks.
- Naiming

Begin forwarded message:

From: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02.txt
Date: February 28, 2017 at 7:05:20 PM PST
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>>
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org<mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.

       Title           : Generalized UDP Source Port for DHCP Relay
       Authors         : Naiming Shen
                         Enke Chen
Filename        : draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02.txt
Pages           : 10
Date            : 2017-02-28

Abstract:
  This document proposes an extension to the DHCP and DHCPv6 protocols
  that allows any valid number to be used as the relay agent UDP source
  port for DHCP packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


--_000_D4FA44D32F8E4B68815C2402D821E4BDciscocom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
Hi dhcwg,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">We have updated the dhc-relay-port draft. The changes:</div=
>
<div class=3D"">
<pre class=3D"">   o  Added the Terminology section.

   o  Defined the Sub-option and Option names for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6.

   o  Added the DHCPv6 cascaded relay agents example.</pre>
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Please review and comment.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">thanks.</div>
<div class=3D"">- Naiming<br class=3D"">
<div><br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margi=
n-left: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.=
org" class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margi=
n-left: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">I-D Action: draft-ietf-dh=
c-relay-port-02.txt</b><br class=3D"">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margi=
n-left: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date:
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">February 28, 2017 at 7:05:20 PM PST<br =
class=3D"">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margi=
n-left: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf=
.org" class=3D"">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margi=
n-left: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org" class=
=3D"">dhcwg@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margi=
n-left: 0px;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Reply-To:
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.=
org" class=3D"">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
</span></div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br class=3D"">
This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF.<br=
 class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Title &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: Generalized UDP Source Port for DHCP Rel=
ay<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Authors &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: Naiming Shen<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
Enke Chen<br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Filename &n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02.txt<=
br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Pages &nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 10<br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Date &nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 2017-02-28<br=
 class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Abstract:<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;This document proposes an extension to the DHCP and DHCPv6 prot=
ocols<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;that allows any valid number to be used as the relay agent UDP =
source<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;port for DHCP packets.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/" cla=
ss=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/</a><br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
There's also a htmlized version available at:<br class=3D"">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br class=3D"">
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-02<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br class=3D"">
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br cla=
ss=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br class=3D"">
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
I-D-Announce mailing list<br class=3D"">
I-D-Announce@ietf.org<br class=3D"">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce<br class=3D"">
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<br class=3D"">
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
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