From nobody Thu Jun 1 11:53:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE95129AAA for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:53:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GUARANTEED_100_PERCENT=2.699, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iXXGciOjq5fD for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22c.google.com (mail-qk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94875124BE8 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 19so43895742qke.2 for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z6dOLLvJKaX5XQm8kO4R9jD/GDN44Gh1mCdlksFQtdY=; b=Uw1m5WdOlgrlSOhYp/SEVDRgPbzPM5EUCR0eMKhaOggQ8GpbyJkc5+lzTzx/tr0DF+ OkfL/L79jEQSD36KEZmU2Djjkv6WdfJGoaFvGd1WvDW4/nmwdxZOZCdowT0qdoHU+qgs KOgcO923meFjOHAwBfr/ITWlphB8QfmVA/VfGdzyafxApdk2vmkT+F3ccCMGcKHAXqVN lQPRTYFDpYA6C9k9Eukg0S4ar7HMv+fpnosxYnFbt3Ndu1vYD/nkF0rZ6oqufUN2ilGi rjywAMs+luWsUvASK5CVpQR68XOuumJPKCKqNa8okFnGc9f9/VFluNyYnExzASoW2LRH kUPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z6dOLLvJKaX5XQm8kO4R9jD/GDN44Gh1mCdlksFQtdY=; b=SRIV25GVgcOuVrY1pWBGRKB14TdM843LzfJMnLeGV/wLfSqoi0JXJXpkgwIIYbYrS8 83hX91Gj5805Ignzz1YqcD2WpVHK5dU6qW/6pY/5t8hb68D7fnZf4KPCT2TOnDeIXk0Z Zm2Il4k+APjK8A4rN1lkWv4meHXYsApayo6M841bqmkhHVwbtpwoMrPpIsc3gMLgY81I hYmyyfddIWF7gwdMVSig672XYmEM+o79wwrAOIbFVETcf1d2APVRlCxWShp1koomL4eS ckBJYE8X3cMoU5zKR1ZmJoPyqXHRQJKU6ODGFSmKdIN1vl/u49XweiErzA3WIyPbtwGj G3RQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwc3Dalz/MOu3rlaXZVN8HPGprjoJzqeE0YRFWHMSZIhmn3zJ6r FBW6RoTKno9qNsCIMkrfIGaSGPRhYA== X-Received: by 10.233.221.129 with SMTP id r123mr3593644qkf.0.1496343182544; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:53:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.48.141 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:53:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:53:01 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: HGcIff1l3CP4dXk5v4yXvhamxpo Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 18:53:05 -0000 On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Bernie Volz (volz) wrote= : >>> - I'm okay with deprecating the delayed authentication protocol, but >>> I'm not sure if it's okay to ship the spec with no built-in >>> authentication (the reconfigure key protocol is very limited and too >>> weak). > > BV> We are working on sedhcpv6 but this has not been so simple and quick.= And, DHCPv6 is in use and deployed today without an authentication protoco= l. There are other actions that can be taken such as stated in section 22: > > Many of these rogue server attacks can be mitigated by making use of > the mechanism described in [RFC7610]. I personally wouldn't argue that it's a blocking issue, and, to be clear, I'm not requesting sedhcpv6 be specified as *the* authentication protocol in rfc3315bis. But I'd suggest chairs to explicitly leave notes about the point for security ADs when the doc is sent to the IESG. >>> - Section 5.2 >>> the "stateful address autoconfiguration protocol" for IPv6 [RFC2462]. >>> s/RFC2462/RFC4862/. > > and there are still more references to RFC2462. > > BV> This is by design. RFC4862 does not mention the M & O bits so we > can't reference that RFC. We documented the reason for this in > Appendix A: I believe at least the reference to RFC2462 in Section 6.2 is not really appropriate: This model of operation was the original motivation for DHCP and is the "stateful address autoconfiguration protocol" for IPv6 which is discussed in [RFC2462]. Simply because RFC4862 doesn't use the term "stateful address autoconfiguration protocol" doesn't make this text appropriate. RFC2462 used the term "stateful address autoconfiguration protocol" just because DHCPv6 wasn't fully standardized at that time. RFC4862 just replaced it with the term "DHCPv6". If you want suggested text, my suggestion is simply remove the second half the sentence: This model of operation was the original motivation for DHCP. It is appropriate for situations where stateless address autoconfiguration alone is insufficient or impractical, e.g., because of network policy, additional requirements such as dynamic updates to the DNS, or client-specific requirements. As for the references to RFC2462 due to M/O RA flags, I still think it can be rather misleading. The sad fact is that M/O flags are dead - all previous attempts at the 6man wg of making them workable failed, and different implementations handle these flags very differently. You simply cannot rely on these flags, and it doesn't make sense to me newer protocol documents like rfc3315bis still talk about them simply because its predecessor talked about them. Now, if you want suggested text, this is my suggestion: Section 18 OLD A client initiates a message exchange with a server or servers to acquire or update configuration information of interest. A client has many reasons to initiate the configuration exchange: ... 3. when required by Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (as defined in [RFC2462] Section 5.2), NEW1 (my preferred suggestion) remove this bullet NEW2 3. when Router Advertisement indicates DHCPv6 is available for address configuration (see [RFC4861] Section 4.2) (unrelated) side note: there's a duplicate bullet #4 here. Section 18 OLD The client has many reasons to initiate the configuration exchange: ... 3. when required by Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (as defined in [RFC2462]) NEW1 (my preferred suggestion) remove this bullet NEW2 3. when Router Advertisement indicates DHCPv6 is available for address configuration (see [RFC4861] Section 4.2) Section 18.2.1 OLD: In the case of a Solicit message transmitted when DHCP is initiated, the delay gives the amount of time to wait after IPv6 Neighbor Discovery causes the client to invoke the stateful address autoconfiguration protocol (see section 5.5.3 of [RFC2462]). This random delay desynchronizes clients which start at the same time (for example, after a power outage). NEW: I actually suggest removing this paragraph. Especially given M&O flags are "dead", I don't see a strong reason for retaining it in addition to its previous paragraph (which also talks about the delay and for the case of power outage). If we still want to say something about the interaction with RA, my suggestion is to revise the previous paragraph as follows: The first Solicit message from the client on the interface SHOULD be delayed by a random amount of time between 0 and SOL_MAX_DELAY. This mechanism is essential for devices that are not battery powered, as they may suffer from power failure. After recovering from a power outage, many devices may start their transmission at the same time. This is much less of a concern for battery powered devices. This random delay also helps descynronize clients which start DHCPv6 session by seeing it available in Router Advertisement messages (see Section 4.2 of [RFC4861]). Note that if all of the above suggestions are adopted, there will be no reference to RFC2462. So you can also remove it from the Refereneces section. >>> - Section 5.4 >>> [...] the requesting router MUST set the valid lifetime in those >>> advertisements to be no later than the valid lifetime specified in >>> the IA_PD Prefix option. >>> "no later than" sounds awkward as the lifetime is a duration, not a >>> particular point in time. > > This is simply open as before. > > BV> Unless you suggest some text, we will leave this be. I think the > point of the text is rather clear. If you want suggestion, this can be fixed easily: NEW: [...] the requesting router MUST set the valid lifetime in those advertisements to be no larger than the valid lifetime specified in the IA_PD Prefix option. i.e., s/later/larger/ >>> - Section 8.1 > [...] > >>> site-scope unicast address has been deprecated. Also, the phrase >>> "global or ULA" is awkward as ULA is a global (scoped) address. > > The 08 version states: > > This is typically a globally unique > address or unique local address (ULA) > [RFC4193], > > This is still awkward to me, since in a sense ULAs are also "globally uni= que" (even if the uniqueness is not 100% guaranteed). Personally I'd simpl= y avoid mentioning ULAs unless there is a specific to reason to refer to it= in the context (and I don't see such a reason here), but if we want to ref= er to ULAs here, I'd say, e.g., "a global address (including unique local a= ddresses)". > > BV> Unless you suggest some text, we will leave it be. I don't see that t= his is necessarily in conflict - yes, ULA is in the "global address space".= But I also think it adds value to explicitly mention ULAs here as otherwis= e someone could confuse the subtly that ULA is allowed. I've already suggested text (I admit the point may be a bit pedantic, though). >>> - Section 17.1.10.1 >>> "no later than" sounds awkward for these lifetimes (see also Sec >>> 5.4). > > BV> See above. Ditto:-) >>> - Section 17.1.10.1 > [...] >>> Specifically, the bullet description seems to lead to multiple >>> separate state machines for different bindings. > > BV> I believe we addressed this by other text in the document - for examp= le, see in 18.2.4 the following text: > > The server controls the time at which the client should contact the > server to extend the lifetimes on assigned leases through the T1 and > T2 parameters assigned to an IA. However, as the client Renews/ > Rebinds all IAs from the server at the same time, the client MUST > select a T1 and T2 time from all IA options, which will guarantee > that the client will send Renew/Rebind messages not later than at the > T1/T2 times associated with any of the client's bindings (earliest > T1/T2). Hmm...this is one of the things why I can't be confident about this spec without actually trying to implement it from the text. But I don't have enough time to check if the concern is addressed in the entire context, I'll simply give up with it. >>> - Section 20.22 > [...] >>> This choice of valid/preferred lifetime in an IA prefix and the >>> (possible) relationship between them and those lifetimes advertised >>> in the delegated site do not make perfect sense to me. [...] > > I don't think the revised version addresses the main point. The new > text simply avoids saying specifics about these lifetimes, but then > it's even more unclear about what these lifetimes are (especially > the preferred lifetime). > > BV> Unless you provide text, I think we'll leave this alone as > mentioned earlier we feel that this document is not the one that > should describe how these lifetimes are to be used. This is not just about wording. It's about actual protocol behavior, and I don't even know if we have common consensus on it. I also think we can't simply ignore the issue by being silence, since it could result in a bad situation like a site keeps advertising a prefix in RA as a preferred one even when it's already "deprecated" or even "invalidated" in terms of prefix delegation. I'll see if I can offer something more concrete, but I'd like to raise it as a possible blocking issue. >>> - Section 20.23 > [...] >>> The expected usage is not very clear to me here. Is it intended to >>> be used for Advertise and apply the value to the ongoing >>> Solicit-Advertise exchange? Or is it mainly intended to be used for >>> a possible subsequent restart of a DHCPv6 session? [...] > BV> You original question was I think about why SOL_MAX_RT MUST be > in ORO. It MUST be as per RFC 7083 so that clients can get updated > SOL_MAX_RT values. And, yes, the idea is that the Advertise with the > SOL_MAX_RT value is used (even if it offers no leases) so that the > client applies this value for any future requests. I don't see the > need for this to be spelled out? I'd think it's worth explaining, but I'll leave it to you. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Thu Jun 1 15:00:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC05F1241FC for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LDj5421XrhUE for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53A2D128D19 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v51M0SRm029632; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:28 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.221]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v51M0HTD029438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:17 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdd::8988:efdd) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:15 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 15:00:15 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" CC: Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by June 6th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLaLlsd9IiMjy2OQmywHG+6QlpKqwA8vRmQ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 22:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: <10034afddcf44c2f9f26dcf7b2194d6e@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <8083bab53ebb474b9fef05fea5fcbdd2@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8083bab53ebb474b9fef05fea5fcbdd2@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_10034afddcf44c2f9f26dcf7b2194d6eXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by June 6th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 22:00:37 -0000 --_000_10034afddcf44c2f9f26dcf7b2194d6eXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernie, I read the entire document, and have only one comment. In section 18.3, the sentence: "The server must be aware of the recommendations on packet sizes and the use of fragmentation in Section 5 of [RFC2460]." Suggest changing this to: "The server must honor the recommendations on packet sizes and the use of fragmentation in Section 5 of [RFC2460]." Also, this same sentence appears a second time in Section 18.3.9. Since Section 18.3 already applies to all server response message types, I believ= e this duplicate sentence in Section 18.3.9 is redundant and could be removed= . I have no other comments. IMHO, the document is ready for advancement pending the resolution of the above. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 9:54 AM To: dhcwg@ietf.org Cc: Ralph Droms Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by Jun= e 6th, 2017 Importance: High Hi: Tomek and I decided to extend the WGLC by about a week (to June 6th) in the= hopes of soliciting more feedback. Please take some time to review this document as this work is a critical pr= oduct of the DHC WG! - Bernie From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 10:53 AM To: dhcwg@ietf.org Cc: Ralph Droms > Subject: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30t= h, 2017 Hello: The co-authors believe that all of the issues reported for the last August = WGLC on draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-05 have now been resolved. But, because o= f the large number of changes, the DHC WG co-chairs feel another "WGLC" is = appropriate. Please review this document and provide your comments and whether you suppo= rt the document moving forward by May 30th, 2017. The DHC WG co-chairs will= again ask Ralph to evaluate the responses. We are doing a 3 week WGLC as t= he document is rather large and important to get right! Please see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08. If you'd like to see the differences from the 05 version, use the diff tool= at https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff: https://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf= -dhc-rfc3315bis-08.txt&url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3= 315bis-05.txt The list of issues we recorded and action/assignee details are at https://d= ocs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3obOwmRQDldw0u_kv85B5Q4LnjnmvUp2MmsHDGmW98 = (some additional issues are in https://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/dhcpv6bis/= report). One very recent change to highlight is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie= tf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08#section-18.2.12 - this was to address a criticism that= DHCPv6 is not responsive enough for some network configuration changes. The co-authors thank those that reviewed this document during the previous = WGLC and hope that those same reviewers (and hopefully more) will endeavor = to do one more thorough review of the document. - Tomek & Bernie --_000_10034afddcf44c2f9f26dcf7b2194d6eXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

I read the entire docu= ment, and have only one comment. In section 18.3, the

sentence:

 

  “The serv= er must be aware of the recommendations on packet sizes and the<= /span>

    use= of fragmentation in Section 5 of [RFC2460].”

 

Suggest changing this = to:

 

  “The serv= er must honor the recommendations on packet sizes and the=

    use= of fragmentation in Section 5 of [RFC2460].”

 

Also, this same senten= ce appears a second time in Section 18.3.9. Since

Section 18.3 already a= pplies to all server response message types, I believe

this duplicate sentenc= e in Section 18.3.9 is redundant and could be removed.

 

I have no other commen= ts. IMHO, the document is ready for advancement

pending the resolution= of the above.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] <= b>On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 9:54 AM
To: dhcwg@ietf.org
Cc: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond= by June 6th, 2017
Importance: High

 

Hi:<= /p>

 

Tomek and I decided to= extend the WGLC by about a week (to June 6th) in the hopes of s= oliciting more feedback.

 

Please take some time = to review this document as this work is a critical product of the DHC WG!

 

-&nb= sp;         Bernie

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 10:53 AM
To: dhcwg@ietf.org
Cc: Ralph Droms <rdroms.= ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by = May 30th, 2017

 

Hello:

 

The co-authors believe that all of the issues report= ed for the last August WGLC on draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-05 have now been r= esolved. But, because of the large number of changes, the DHC WG co-chairs = feel another “WGLC” is appropriate.

 

Please review this document and provide your comment= s and whether you support the document moving forward by May 30th, 2017. The DHC WG co-chairs will again ask Ralph to evaluate the response= s. We are doing a 3 week WGLC as the document is rather large and important to get right!

 

Please see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08.

 

If you’d like to see the differences from the = 05 version, use the diff tool at https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff:

 

https://tools.ietf.org/= /rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08.txt&= amp;url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-05.txt

 

The list of issues we recorded and action/assignee d= etails are at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3obOwmRQDldw0u_kv85B5Q4LnjnmvUp2Mm= sHDGmW98 (some additional issues are in https://trac= .tools.ietf.org/group/dhcpv6bis/report).

 

One very recent change to highlight is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08#section-18.2.12 – this was to address a criticism that DHCPv6 is not responsive eno= ugh for some network configuration changes.

 

The co-authors thank those that reviewed this docume= nt during the previous WGLC and hope that those same reviewers (and hopeful= ly more) will endeavor to do one more thorough review of the document.=

 

-     &= nbsp;    Tomek & Bernie

--_000_10034afddcf44c2f9f26dcf7b2194d6eXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_-- From nobody Mon Jun 5 15:25:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA6F120721 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 15:25:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JvKgeZmUgMk4 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 15:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14EAA12955D for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 15:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v55MAkmV073325; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 00:10:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706052210.v55MAkmV073325@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 31 May 2017 11:01:44 -0700. Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 00:10:46 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 22:25:37 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > I guess there's at least one fundamental open issue to be resolved > before even trying to implement it: > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg18116.html => it is more than a fundamental issue: the idea to use RSA encryption is simply a deadly bad one... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: IMHO the current SeDHCPv6 protocol has no chance to go somewhere. Perhaps we should drop it and restart from the beginning about address assignment security, for instance using opportunistic DNSSEC with a client embedded first relay? At least it does not need to develop a new protocol... From nobody Wed Jun 7 11:10:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67B31294FA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:10:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kfTFX5WW2UaY for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x236.google.com (mail-qt0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10A21128D3E for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x236.google.com with SMTP id w1so15342597qtg.2 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:10:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=kL8p12X4mgXvDi3jDbS/fYygqaY+Ak8WB02wEcklpRI=; b=EX8ssLC4eyZ+dGleuEgvAdVcZhXaPCrC0A5i2Xw5SUmH1bbALhoWolp6G6URftNbJA RRZcmgb4l76H/FsKiYBkzWgC1NkdcyscQJ4qYMEy3iQ6DsnnyzBEd5ApSKK164Lm/RiJ XW6CXV4X3Lf3Q7LoJoQrzSPxc7YBa6Fn0TBeI1wDTMmf+V1p8Viv/MgLDYucVj8vGrtR Cu28pbAOxnl04iyYhCtPLgUaKuMlonCoOgCVzbHuB7mw9WBguQb/raj+u1rILoaS+WVb C2MHNi1wMZj/vpSFu+X66yerADqjC+sZNu4QV2LDvDexMXw3fgQh9HozbCPsSSZ1pbaw 8DFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kL8p12X4mgXvDi3jDbS/fYygqaY+Ak8WB02wEcklpRI=; b=b1q8V8Rm/xJPK/4Dnt4tH1gDtbV6GtoeAo9ssHvq1SVkFX8cjQlWcYMRMLRu4xfh4f X9s/DlTJ0bBqL1zAMRqHl1QS9ZcbkQIBwu5Z8jbHL+mcVDaCOXUdS8uEOW3N3y60eXYU DK2XFW0Bda6HwA40JrpVQtSB2Ae68k52TVn8ssWWLbEeN8cKVSzrvkDwHlAM606Yk1fh CFpXqN/wAoanRRicKvFDsUN7qlDRnkYmi6cCKL91Gj7CnwrzdX8K3bL3bWK4kZgIKvlo TUOjKYEQUgt0mVwI97gnteplLkSfukboaCXskmKtG5jFLmDSqnF0Q1nI1AXbvYVnWO7I 6sVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDVRyCJSQ9g3IOTX3rwk0fG23SykVzX7HxaNasOr4D2gUgU1Obs ZcMIjfhWeuS1PGWZhxIF/aZsRKAKdTc9tT8= X-Received: by 10.237.55.164 with SMTP id j33mr4061874qtb.86.1496859052868; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:10:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com Received: by 10.237.60.53 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:10:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201706052210.v55MAkmV073325@givry.fdupont.fr> References: <201706052210.v55MAkmV073325@givry.fdupont.fr> From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:10:52 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cG2UPo73dcdBXd8uIvdLghN4xeU Message-ID: To: Francis Dupont Cc: dhcwg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:10:56 -0000 At Tue, 06 Jun 2017 00:10:46 +0200, Francis Dupont wrote: > > I guess there's at least one fundamental open issue to be resolved > > before even trying to implement it: > > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg18116.html > > => it is more than a fundamental issue: the idea to use RSA encryption > is simply a deadly bad one... Could you explain it in more detail? Is it just about the particular choice of algorithm (RSA), or is it about the use of asymmetric (public-key)-based encryption to encrypt DHCPv6 messages in the first place? And why is it bad? If it's the former, (depending on the reason) we might choose a better algorithm as the default/mandatory. If it's the latter, we could revise the protocol so it will first negotiate a symmetric session key using public-key based encryption and use the session key for subsequent DHCPv6 message exchanges. That will be a quite substantial change from the current spec, but I guess it's not impossible. Or... > PS: IMHO the current SeDHCPv6 protocol has no chance to go somewhere. perhaps so. But it would help if you could explain why you think so. > Perhaps we should drop it and restart from the beginning about > address assignment security, for instance using opportunistic DNSSEC > with a client embedded first relay? At least it does not need to > develop a new protocol... I don't know what "opportunistic DNSSEC with a client embedded first relay" means, but as we're sort of getting stuck I see even a drop-and-restart might be an option. -- JINMEI, Tatuya On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Francis Dupont wrote: > In your previous mail you wrote: > >> I guess there's at least one fundamental open issue to be resolved >> before even trying to implement it: >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg18116.html > > => it is more than a fundamental issue: the idea to use RSA encryption > is simply a deadly bad one... > > Regards > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > > PS: IMHO the current SeDHCPv6 protocol has no chance to go somewhere. > Perhaps we should drop it and restart from the beginning about > address assignment security, for instance using opportunistic DNSSEC > with a client embedded first relay? At least it does not need to > develop a new protocol... > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Wed Jun 7 11:44:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3862A12EC36 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ekJjif8Q8S0 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x232.google.com (mail-lf0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AC1B13145E for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x232.google.com with SMTP id p189so9315865lfe.2 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:43:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+sPM9y32pwbtX5gWsOkJ8aZPL9kz+p7oIToYYUlUuKQ=; b=c8Mo/2keWNqJitZ7VWYGckjVPk0gYj+CF/92ughl2rUxoxRzTDenuPv0c2e06+YTwU FfgvVsY2xmW91CYqs/MxpjJrZlLmPH+JLdvgvES1TnVGX6/6/vRRxd8yFBLAZy2klmpU IAuvWRXAK0ud6Xq/b1I2lMIEAPZbn928ctLG/ujeBgmv+4YKYhS6+F6mV7CH4oR1a4EM Oq6nPeplO4rEeXTyk6rrvfn0MzlmiGvlcOVALTgC1lKsgE7Y2k6x1nRu/D2KSwjtgJrs tJskBzD4pBHFA3CD16r7qwV4j8Cud2xNjUpRnDTXvXvFHs2g4CmAttwPB7GWOxBYvWLN 9jUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+sPM9y32pwbtX5gWsOkJ8aZPL9kz+p7oIToYYUlUuKQ=; b=fiJUlIK+owtM5/Yei9DIAQjKECN6kv29THXLrKW5CyCHl4DcQ/gb761k3xEyGVisd/ sAyh5be8WAnA0qWUsXzbTDPsoPGKo2TDiDCFlR6BIydioOr6HGhPC3YBQouDmlWN/wG4 j4SZUyrp8+aFCRaYXlipKYa3f2ZTHXSat+pRg8t7moAOXwM7rC9t0N38vjBpSQo76ib0 LUyW6pT/GlkC7FNFMl7TC3k9BXLefV1MN6xlfdXJaU5Nvr0ASf6HKKQ3Fx+GZcojn+8A 1Ty/apjNL+Wd42jzqdAi8imXW7vrpPysOA++4w9LwXa618gYvqvEo+DYu1LrOcTqIRtk hGjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAtt+krNtvp9r0VItl1G7aF75fSD9LOo4W3cACjqxLXeHmAu8au FDFOOh8Dz7DH1mqx X-Received: by 10.25.217.77 with SMTP id q74mr3963121lfg.50.1496860987807; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.7] (109241207033.gdansk.vectranet.pl. [109.241.207.33]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u11sm513412lfi.36.2017.06.07.11.43.06 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) To: dhcwg@ietf.org References: <201706052210.v55MAkmV073325@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Tomek Mrugalski Message-ID: <779d39d0-eab7-f4c0-e6a0-322f75edb2d5@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 20:43:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:43:52 -0000 W dniu 07.06.2017 o 20:10, 神明達哉 pisze: > At Tue, 06 Jun 2017 00:10:46 +0200, > Francis Dupont wrote: >> Perhaps we should drop it and restart from the beginning about >> address assignment security, for instance using opportunistic DNSSEC >> with a client embedded first relay? At least it does not need to >> develop a new protocol... > > I don't know what "opportunistic DNSSEC with a client embedded > first relay" means, but as we're sort of getting stuck I see even a > drop-and-restart might be an option. This work has been in development for almost a decade. This particular approach started in 2013. Let's not restart the work until we exhaust all other possible alternatives. How about the proposal Bernie made here? https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dhcwg/c2bB8KdbGgsZShHtnyUgKwELa-w Another possible approach to the problem mentioned in off-line discussion was DTLS 1.2 (RFC6347), but Francis pointed out that it's quite exchange heavy, compared to DHCP, which takes 1 or 2 exchanges. Going to 3 or perhaps 4 exchanges is ok in my opinion, but if the proposal requires more than that, we would see a lot of raised eyebrows. Tomek From nobody Wed Jun 7 11:52:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B59E131458 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:52:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zhy3YGRAXNJt for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CDB5127337 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 11:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57IZETv059955; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 20:35:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706071835.v57IZETv059955@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= cc: dhcwg In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 11:10:52 -0700. Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 20:35:14 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:52:51 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > > => it is more than a fundamental issue: the idea to use RSA encryption > > is simply a deadly bad one... > > Could you explain it in more detail? Is it just about the particular > choice of algorithm (RSA), or is it about the use of asymmetric > (public-key)-based encryption to encrypt DHCPv6 messages in the first > place? And why is it bad? => in fact it is both because RSA is the only asymmetric algorithm which provides an accepted encryption feature. Now why it is bad (other than RSA has no future)? Just because it was designed to protect something short as a key for a symmetric encryption and *not* for a message with an unbound length. > If it's the former, (depending on the reason) we might choose a better > algorithm as the default/mandatory. => as I explained I am afraid there is no alternative which went further than conference papers... > If it's the latter, we could revise the protocol so it will first > negotiate a symmetric session key using public-key based encryption > and use the session key for subsequent DHCPv6 message exchanges. That > will be a quite substantial change from the current spec, but I guess > it's not impossible. => if you go to a key agreement phase followed by symmetrical encryption I am afraid you are reinvented something which already exists so why not investigate current possible solutions and try to use them directly? > > Perhaps we should drop it and restart from the beginning about > > address assignment security, for instance using opportunistic DNSSEC => oops? I wrote DNSSEC? I wanted to mean IPsec. > > with a client embedded first relay? At least it does not need to > > develop a new protocol... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From nobody Wed Jun 7 12:09:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8BB12946A for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:09:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mqwb8Oz2t1XD for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9490213146E for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id u19so17223900qta.3 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=t+28SdvCJs/hdODkW8swpzs6xSCWiB2iVFPhDWHwdFY=; b=ChkBhpxhJwOcpFVmNI9oZggHxBM8KZhaSqWUb8M1AKaJMTZ1M7m/uq6ueed02GBY0H hC1u4LftPLqzRPUXr0HDfjbkIxWI8K7ZqJL9CeIgKHymyaRdhEF6RGV3cKLk9P/kTL+k aA9hsmLZ7k4dtVSsVdgYb4UWmwkdUqyq/YyfeiWqZGQgzXQRAbAqJ9pS0yMcxDAvpC0w nQRuZIpXRmLNEi8jWewKZU1JCNFDs5aBuqPIG9ITS4e/k24SYpfmDLUiNb8lGKrki+JF wXAIzdcdABXnrzweiKFYjuj7VUKq/TorZw6zse6P7iT39m16gHQZeU6e1jHGmPspKU2x yxiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=t+28SdvCJs/hdODkW8swpzs6xSCWiB2iVFPhDWHwdFY=; b=VFGDEHU6sYqmu84/rTIIpBGtmDw3R33fYPWs6EJWPALj0mYJS28DLVq7G14iqd4s0c nUnLmMyzAMWaLlgfRX6iiXHvIc1pN4kdRCbmsrrvwCDxbRfy/Z77rXbWKc4rI5FbYJci H/2fCvqSEPcCGUaG9ojLcrMWDD26kytDk3EQ/CFcteUAZASuVOpzyZqFEh8sY03ydSfo hP9iaAmYr+LEyCYntDIr0W2KL6cWuFyK3gxOrXlFaFgpFxbD2/iZOU5HR+U14VX5LJiu 0kMmti0GM3s0hSN4tAO1/emptL7NdY7pg6fLLMY0mqAedaugxlNIAxsiKtCKQxzW90uc YSUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyEEs+TIjVovQuajO5zjVbCJsp8cOVwgCESqBLIPQFcPgZXsCWk egtmOH0XQ3bd/eem X-Received: by 10.55.104.129 with SMTP id d123mr3398334qkc.176.1496862371608; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q41sm1626154qtc.8.2017.06.07.12.06.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <201706071835.v57IZETv059955@givry.fdupont.fr> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:06:09 -0400 Cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201706071835.v57IZETv059955@givry.fdupont.fr> To: Francis Dupont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:09:32 -0000 Bernie addressed the key issue. I think Bernie's suggestion is fine, = but sounds a lot like DTLS, which begs the question, why not just use = DTLS? And Francis, much as we might wish it otherwise, IPsec isn't = actually a practical option as far as I can tell. I have no idea how to = use it for anything other than setting up a VPN on, e.g., Mac OS X. If = you have a resource to point to on that, I'd be interested to hear about = it. > On Jun 7, 2017, at 2:35 PM, Francis Dupont = wrote: >=20 > In your previous mail you wrote: >=20 >>> =3D> it is more than a fundamental issue: the idea to use RSA = encryption >>> is simply a deadly bad one... >>=20 >> Could you explain it in more detail? Is it just about the particular >> choice of algorithm (RSA), or is it about the use of asymmetric >> (public-key)-based encryption to encrypt DHCPv6 messages in the first >> place? And why is it bad? >=20 > =3D> in fact it is both because RSA is the only asymmetric algorithm > which provides an accepted encryption feature. > Now why it is bad (other than RSA has no future)? Just because it was > designed to protect something short as a key for a symmetric = encryption > and *not* for a message with an unbound length. >=20 >> If it's the former, (depending on the reason) we might choose a = better >> algorithm as the default/mandatory. >=20 > =3D> as I explained I am afraid there is no alternative which went = further > than conference papers... >=20 >> If it's the latter, we could revise the protocol so it will first >> negotiate a symmetric session key using public-key based encryption >> and use the session key for subsequent DHCPv6 message exchanges. = That >> will be a quite substantial change from the current spec, but I guess >> it's not impossible. >=20 > =3D> if you go to a key agreement phase followed by symmetrical = encryption > I am afraid you are reinvented something which already exists so why > not investigate current possible solutions and try to use them = directly? >=20 >>> Perhaps we should drop it and restart from the beginning about >>> address assignment security, for instance using opportunistic DNSSEC >=20 > =3D> oops? I wrote DNSSEC? I wanted to mean IPsec. >=20 >>> with a client embedded first relay? At least it does not need to >>> develop a new protocol... >=20 > Regards >=20 > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Wed Jun 7 12:23:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCFD131463 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:23:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01Vevg5EsQdT for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F41912948F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57J8lqg062133; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 21:08:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706071908.v57J8lqg062133@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Tomek Mrugalski cc: dhcwg@ietf.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 20:43:05 +0200. <779d39d0-eab7-f4c0-e6a0-322f75edb2d5@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:08:47 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:23:39 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > This work has been in development for almost a decade. This particular > approach started in 2013. Let's not restart the work until we exhaust > all other possible alternatives. => I know it was pretty old (I was its gen-art reviewer and did thsi review the 20130220 according to my message to gen-art...). At this time it was not ready ("Summary: Not Ready" cut & paste from this message) but putting some ideas from SEND which solved a similar problem with same hard constraints made it something reasonable. IMHO the real issue comes from the switch from an authentication mechanism to unauthenticated encryption. So if the name is the same in fact it is a very different protocol, and of course to twist it to fulfill a different goal did not work well... > How about the proposal Bernie made here? > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dhcwg/c2bB8KdbGgsZShHtnyUgKwELa-w => IMHO anything using RSA encryption is dead. > Another possible approach to the problem mentioned in off-line > discussion was DTLS 1.2 (RFC6347), but Francis pointed out that it's > quite exchange heavy, compared to DHCP, which takes 1 or 2 exchanges. > Going to 3 or perhaps 4 exchanges is ok in my opinion, but if the > proposal requires more than that, we would see a lot of raised eyebrows. => without RSA encryption only solutions using state and multiple exchanges are available so instead to transform DHCP into something different I suggest to do the opposite: start from a security protocol and add some DHCP features into it. In the case of opportunistic IPsec/IKE it could be more DHCP features or if we are lucky some profiles... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: References are: RFC 4322 "Opportunistic Encryption using the Internet Key Exchange (IKE)" RFC 5996 "Internet Key Exchange Protocol Version 2 (IKEv2)" RFC 5739 "IPv6 Configuration in Internet Key Exchange Protocol Version 2 (IKEv2)" From nobody Wed Jun 7 12:26:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2901E12948F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:26:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id avk5PdZgHVIP for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22b.google.com (mail-qt0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA25D127698 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id u19so17880856qta.3 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=YiQ/mtEgu91Mo+n9LA/4baaeYTvK8a0+pwuvEpQu5Ao=; b=NakyHCCByrZeHmmhtR4bjyRodRYMWOs+iAxBJaRwUUWKNj4zYfowMmbzqtyFC7pn0H vYnBA1Agra/IGBhLm9EdhXd1c/LtAwouVpAYGMdSICjjjDwuhcHRUslED1xFCZ1htDdh 6Mzk02v6AEX6PcOhIivmwXXzsU3Ltfn/LBmYCCgDr/k+SxUGwRcbGAi9D6SjkoZ01Ewc WBxEg0/EPWz0P4vC0SvfgSSpgZMLCGX7At9HRmKh+w11g1bn+szlPNO++mKg2kXKyKhe BRi/kbLd/sYNIl5U6dOHJQV3DTUn+YTfrsHqJI57hXmFGx3f9B+Vg6HK1uuFDE0xj8lb 4Ovg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=YiQ/mtEgu91Mo+n9LA/4baaeYTvK8a0+pwuvEpQu5Ao=; b=mMbVIoiuVSBJ29FuP8byRheY6nZDz/qkyq3/+l23/Tbm4AKpnKlw8l7b/PNnwl/rnv DW3toKnJMfNi1iWFhr2xda922Ag7486tuPb/0X/itgUUST6weZQ0M+Jzq1XzBmrPZuOG WsYVMGQe4CJf1k6l+hvAZW4O0fNGKIWLwLbAp2hgXg80HVOQvpaIPoBWv7beFIR7JNXK 6vatmpugBsL/6mhKLvtM5QhrNNeqlyvkrHcc3pyYV5Aa1YJsVt8HauLHVqgKsRC5z7KT j4jqBaG/73Ar27bVUzl0DLZa1thCV5D9z6e3DcS3uboYIpGj9w+gykK+FKPVYHjQg261 A1vg== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcC6de215jDbff9slRdzYSck3IJka/j8LJoyLofiBhuODup0TYlB aZLHxY3J0nFm+EXt X-Received: by 10.200.56.230 with SMTP id g35mr33704429qtc.79.1496863591831; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n35sm1632050qtc.55.2017.06.07.12.26.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:26:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <345449A2-D651-421A-8695-E77606C513F1@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7ECC46D5-08C4-4677-8344-D7F5C7A4911D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:26:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201706071908.v57J8lqg062133@givry.fdupont.fr> Cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org To: Francis Dupont References: <201706071908.v57J8lqg062133@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:26:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7ECC46D5-08C4-4677-8344-D7F5C7A4911D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Francis Dupont = wrote: > In the case of opportunistic > IPsec/IKE it could be more DHCP features or if we are lucky some > profiles... Suppose I want to code up a DHCP client that uses IPsec on the Mac. = What API do I use? Since encryption is now being done in the network = stack, I don't have the option of not using an API. AFAIK, no such API = exists. I'm choosing the Mac specifically because I haven't been able = to find documentation for one there=E2=80=94I know I can do it on Linux. --Apple-Mail=_7ECC46D5-08C4-4677-8344-D7F5C7A4911D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr> wrote:
In the case of opportunistic
IPsec/IKE it could be more DHCP features or if = we are lucky some
profiles...

Suppose I want to code up a DHCP client that uses IPsec on = the Mac.   What API do I use?   Since encryption is now being = done in the network stack, I don't have the option of not using an API. =   AFAIK, no such API exists.   I'm choosing the Mac = specifically because I haven't been able to find documentation for one = there=E2=80=94I know I can do it on Linux.

= --Apple-Mail=_7ECC46D5-08C4-4677-8344-D7F5C7A4911D-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 12:34:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6737129AD2 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IUnlRQJR9xvI for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23799129461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id u19so18127794qta.3 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:34:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=UGTmJvBhRNXWbdQHpYBpBhP337VZMR3PUeQM5tjRMs8=; b=hWH1h2h5lZYsvcgR7+/fnnjtMcXUGFHR3Symz66YoiMUzJ1ukQTbG51mb4rIad46vh h5r/H+jhI+cYU6qEu2xUHEikFojAAePAQwpB1AfAkn8nkLuQc8QfMMlDr/w/GLWwp0+l p7Qqs6XfxCqDJYDtJDsSvubh7ddcaVf4Wkf6n/ReVr/aCKdvUuounTqXUX5hWrkOpaB5 6jaAp/0m5V/NlGjP/6OUGAIZrqryAu40giytgbnl9XZoEvB1Lnl/XP6evDhhRqhcEJOU 8/7nx3qaC5LniXidtkEV5TmR4KARWQbYgyfhXylEEhS/5cjQiKtXNvJEBpp48Wq0HAmV QMGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=UGTmJvBhRNXWbdQHpYBpBhP337VZMR3PUeQM5tjRMs8=; b=Qq60ImSFtCvflJGrNiVOT3gymPRz2f5bter/po1wUQft370Mfywegb/ZQWLq9+1mTi lfmY37wMo/VhrmO7asTE3gjUMPBvppyUsgBAOEDgNpl6mpHVQTnAemENUgJw3PK7chTh jHNS+lCfkcDbPeZSTvyvWUs7l+sUUuva4XP4XlFcjkIMXa5c4dl7WhzZhw7tkB1DtGQx 4vlyzfQr6ucYxg44zgijM0kY4u41sW8BVEWcSiBV57apSSt71cBYgw7eWIHxmEc30hB3 Monq9BuWWQTRk4Sr+seJYYHZQeFHET3hMJTGR2u0qA3xh0VQaBHIL9jGXCEHDSR0QtMw PrRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzDHpkG2rmoWf87TN6KiEj7rQ5HBMsbtTFZyy/ZT3JpYl7J8sxv GnDp0mJkEkxbxqzB X-Received: by 10.55.105.133 with SMTP id e127mr39718646qkc.19.1496864054339; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k6sm1695509qtk.10.2017.06.07.12.34.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6EF6EE6B-5154-4595-B856-04882AF31A85" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:34:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <345449A2-D651-421A-8695-E77606C513F1@fugue.com> Cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org To: Francis Dupont References: <201706071908.v57J8lqg062133@givry.fdupont.fr> <345449A2-D651-421A-8695-E77606C513F1@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:34:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6EF6EE6B-5154-4595-B856-04882AF31A85 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:26 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: > Suppose I want to code up a DHCP client that uses IPsec on the Mac. = What API do I use? Since encryption is now being done in the network = stack, I don't have the option of not using an API. AFAIK, no such API = exists. I'm choosing the Mac specifically because I haven't been able = to find documentation for one there=E2=80=94I know I can do it on Linux. Nevermind, I think I found it. In order for this to work, I think the initial DHCPINFORM would need to = include a public key, and the response would include a generated shared = secret signed in the server's private key and encrypted using the = client's public key. It would also include the server's public key. = This would allow us to establish keying for the IPsec encryption. However, I don't think this would actually work, because now we have an = encrypted blob for the relay agent. What does it do with it? Once we have established a shared private key, I think that we would = want to just use Bernie's model. Either that, or we use DTLS and wrap it = in the same sort of message exchange, and the encrypted blobs are = shipped around in DHCP messages pretty much the same way that we're = doing in the current protocol. But I don't have time to think about this right now... :) --Apple-Mail=_6EF6EE6B-5154-4595-B856-04882AF31A85 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:26 PM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> = wrote:
Suppose I want to code up a DHCP = client that uses IPsec on the Mac.   What API do I use?   = Since encryption is now being done in the network stack, I don't have = the option of not using an API.   AFAIK, no such API exists.   = I'm choosing the Mac specifically because I haven't been able to find = documentation for one there=E2=80=94I know I can do it on = Linux.

Nevermind, I think I found it.

In order for this to work, I think the = initial DHCPINFORM would need to include a public key, and the response = would include a generated shared secret signed in the server's private = key and encrypted using the client's public key.   It would also = include the server's public key.   This would allow us to establish = keying for the IPsec encryption.

However, I don't think this would = actually work, because now we have an encrypted blob for the relay = agent.   What does it do with it?

Once we have established a shared = private key, I think that we would want to just use Bernie's model. = Either that, or we use DTLS and wrap it in the same sort of message = exchange, and the encrypted blobs are shipped around in DHCP messages = pretty much the same way that we're doing in the current = protocol.

But = I don't have time to think about this right now... :)

= --Apple-Mail=_6EF6EE6B-5154-4595-B856-04882AF31A85-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 12:44:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D5A12EBF9 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:43:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0-DzxVGypBZJ for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2FE4129B40 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57JT6wQ063392; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 21:29:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706071929.v57JT6wQ063392@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:06:09 -0400. Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:29:06 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:43:59 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > Bernie addressed the key issue. I think Bernie's suggestion is fine, but s > ounds a lot like DTLS, which begs the question, why not just use DTLS? And > Francis, much as we might wish it otherwise, IPsec isn't actually a practic > al option as far as I can tell. I have no idea how to use it for anything o > ther than setting up a VPN on, e.g., Mac OS X. If you have a resource to p > oint to on that, I'd be interested to hear about it. => even if IPsec is essentially used for VPN it provides a transport mode and not only a tunnel mode... Now the real question is about the fact IPsec is a kernel feature, not something you add in applications over the transport API provided by the kernel. The world is divided between people who think it is an advantage and people who think it is *the* problem. Obviously I am in the first part, you in the second. Now I did a lot of kernel programming (including IPsec kernel programming) so I am very far to be neutral... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: macOS has IPsec/IKE support. At the time I worked on IPsec it used the same code than me, today I don't know. To configure it: - open System Prefences - open Network - add a new interface (or service) - select VPN (there was a way to use transport mode but as far as I remember not very direct) - select IKEv2 VPN type - enter a service name etc BTW I am typing this on a macOS MacBook Air... From nobody Wed Jun 7 13:05:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFA6129461 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 13:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cySaY88LGEpA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 13:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 180D9128CDC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 13:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57JoKPa064648; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 21:50:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706071950.v57JoKPa064648@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:26:30 -0400. <345449A2-D651-421A-8695-E77606C513F1@fugue.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:50:20 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 20:05:13 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > Suppose I want to code up a DHCP client that uses IPsec on the Mac. = > What API do I use? Since encryption is now being done in the network = > stack, I don't have the option of not using an API. AFAIK, no such API = > exists. I'm choosing the Mac specifically because I haven't been able = > to find documentation for one there=E2=80=94I know I can do it on Linux. => PF_KEY (/usr/include/net/pfkeyv2.h). You are making some friends (and I am afraid some are in this list) not fully happy (:-)... Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: the real issue is more how to configure IKEv2 on macOS. As IPsec is in the kernel applications have no API to use to get IPsec protection for their traffic but of course this (insert color here) magic does not come from nowhere, and again only common VPN senarios are managed by system tools. This does not mean it is impossible to do what one wants but it is likely not easy so to summary the color could become dark. From nobody Wed Jun 7 14:19:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2843712969E for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:19:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id REy_pe9kshNp for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22f.google.com (mail-qt0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C1BC1294CE for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id c10so21306272qtd.1 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:19:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=T8XAxBvfOTiChgGRqXO9Llo7xOUfuWu8P04A9LWAkuw=; b=JVVPLayK36uT6TLnsOC9fqttW6vTIjxFXcR7a9nZkUW7RZ9SRjmX2N7hX2fRah116j EEdLjUXoSogirZlSC1rSwypX5P4UmwopaQdDLDObMNTtlJivNBHQ0PNrH/W3/z3vRkG6 yoBZfS+il00wNOIUd/GEidyKJa0zUEsPnWThK/fQ/8wmdZVbtHEj3HJpAdtGmVqRDY/2 lLuF9C/Dpsv2kDdOWPsCOb4ZaMRSYHIJRktNzkllYxMo6LLtw53uBlzZQ0ZOQATO2oe1 r8PNw2lRof9qmv8BGSZQ6DFxwPfKiKmcAes5tJKk6nz31fxioLEPIHQs/XTdtJlcWipj WIbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=T8XAxBvfOTiChgGRqXO9Llo7xOUfuWu8P04A9LWAkuw=; b=W/nH4Auec4+SPHqmQnqv1hj0iLTLTtZyX7TqJDGFuIyH04K50NexExgWK3S7qX+A3G O0OoO442ReI9OpQwqccvd9PW+E7YAzqgrno/0qJ+8aOPbIv2V517cJKBkaeS0ltyqqc6 +Wlz6/MIRFFUct6tJkKK4jJJ88B/IpbYf9xwiWcb5l+1/vRA7cVGD1oMZTRdktksJdqw Fy6tBCyb6Rtq0ARGfMEU+Kie3cr0Bl+o737Agm756swHu/4PMzDx+ml9iZMkXgL9tLWv gpIO3o2P13K0n8PJNSL6tEvq/d+5vPLmn4aAnd6stKBm+t1X0+tQPXkzkP3D5TSzXg3U 3sHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzm7z220Exglk6+h+nYu48HtZJKHR5HZK6DqSb67eC59h8UdYcZ YJKjr0CHPYoLlMfk X-Received: by 10.200.43.217 with SMTP id n25mr43450157qtn.190.1496870357596; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q41sm1864030qtc.8.2017.06.07.14.19.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3CA8A108-CEF0-49E5-9B68-79B51CFE9CF0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:19:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201706071929.v57JT6wQ063392@givry.fdupont.fr> Cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg To: Francis Dupont References: <201706071929.v57JT6wQ063392@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:19:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3CA8A108-CEF0-49E5-9B68-79B51CFE9CF0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:29 PM, Francis Dupont = wrote: > The world is divided between people who think it is an > advantage and people who think it is *the* problem. > Obviously I am in the first part, you in the second. Now I did a lot = of > kernel programming (including IPsec kernel programming) so I am very > far to be neutral... Actually, the two groups of people into which the world is divided are = those who think the world is divided into two groups of people, and = those who do not. :) The point of this joke is that actually I don't have any problem with = encryption being done in the kernel, but I don't see how to make it work = for this use case, because we don't have end-to-end communication with = the server. --Apple-Mail=_3CA8A108-CEF0-49E5-9B68-79B51CFE9CF0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 3:29 PM, Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr> wrote:
The world is divided between people who = think it is an
advantage and people who think it is = *the* problem.
Obviously I am in the first part, you in = the second. Now I did a lot of
kernel programming = (including IPsec kernel programming) so I am very
far to be = neutral...

Actually, the two groups of people into which the world is = divided are those who think the world is divided into two groups of = people, and those who do not.   :)

The point of this joke is that actually = I don't have any problem with encryption being done in the kernel, but I = don't see how to make it work for this use case, because we don't have = end-to-end communication with the server.

= --Apple-Mail=_3CA8A108-CEF0-49E5-9B68-79B51CFE9CF0-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 14:40:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B53511293DA for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:40:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a7UydMAK2det for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4CBE127180 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57LPHu8070750; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 23:25:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706072125.v57LPHu8070750@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:34:12 -0400. Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:25:17 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:40:11 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > In order for this to work, I think the initial DHCPINFORM would need to = > include a public key, and the response would include a generated shared = > secret signed in the server's private key and encrypted using the = > client's public key. It would also include the server's public key. = => you are reinventing IKE or DTLS with 2 problems: - it is better to use a key agreement protocol than to leave one side to decide the key. - public keys or certificates are not very useful because the only thing the client can do is to check that things are signed by the owner, not that the server is authorized. BTW there are 2 possible solutions, one used by SEND is to communicate a certification chain, another is to rely on a posteriori validation (of course you can just give up on the authentication arguing that only encryption matters). I am afraid you are replacing the address bootstrap mess by the security bootstrap mess but there is a security protocol which includes address bootstrapping, it is IKEv2 so IMHO we should try it as on the paper it has all we need. > This would allow us to establish keying for the IPsec encryption. => too late: either IPsec bootstrapped and your traffic is protected, or IPsec failed to bootstrap and your traffic is dropped. > However, I don't think this would actually work, because now we have an = > encrypted blob for the relay agent. What does it do with it? => if it is protected by IPsec to the server the relay don't see it. Note the relay is supposed to encapsulate/decapsulate *only* messages between clients and the server (note I wrote "supposed"). Another thing we can do is to embed a relay in the client. BTW it is what I proposed (and what was adopted by Ralph) for IPv6 router mobility which had an IPsec vs DHCPv6 issue. > Once we have established a shared private key, I think that we would = > want to just use Bernie's model. Either that, or we use DTLS and wrap it = > in the same sort of message exchange, and the encrypted blobs are = > shipped around in DHCP messages pretty much the same way that we're = > doing in the current protocol. => if you use DTLS it will be something different than DHCPv6 over UDP (it is not true for IPsec which is transparent for applications). > But I don't have time to think about this right now... :) => yes, we should postpone extensions to the DHCP protocol until we are sure there is no simpler solution (BTW we cited IPsec and DTLS, is there another candidate?) Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: my macOS 10.12 sources still have a racoon code so setkey should be able to manipulate the Security Policy Database. Note this is ISAKMP/IKEv1 so very old (I worked on racoon2 IKEv2 more than 10 years ago). I am trying to identify the macOS IKEv2 implementatio, it seems it is loaded as a network extension but sources (and documentation?) are not available. From nobody Wed Jun 7 14:49:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444C513148D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pk0UKIrtbez5 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22a.google.com (mail-qt0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F9A813148B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id u12so22085169qth.0 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:49:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=WT/2Degv20Vnno/tIv6zibyU2Nzy+GjH9s5FA2V7EFY=; b=d7NuJEcJqZBwc4FRglAoC3D32yZw+AZ1nwupKUHsi1FVwXPQr0vsv/ftyILWBB9Qxl YeggecSO8FQUFxk6RgNCVPpMswdEfUDLMCuoeSZ8n2jWvRVawygRxPL7PYEQbMpaGQs3 KjPs7pIjCZAc1I/GHuE9B/oCDB81nqSrxMGkx8SwwC57Fpu/0xR8Qm5Kf5fykGYyY80Z qOiAHbNu7ZNHevHxRjmlEoDaNuSqCFy32hf7J1J2wq+81T+T+GwGmYeriFqFcYmurIjP zdLKk1DGPFRVVknEPEBirwyb1Y9LN6pWvuzcukJk6HTB/6GTVDeQcCnrEMdz6HimQTNC qtdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=WT/2Degv20Vnno/tIv6zibyU2Nzy+GjH9s5FA2V7EFY=; b=Ve2rBQDsY9PBV2r1F/VzA0yP43Qbmz7YxLp+L7vVT9Dtwon8oLctkHnLv2H691OERm 3H2t1GATleWrvJa3gpuelRwp/FTXlxVMRvr8P7myMppaBUsxuamjHpmGfwX4k9+GS4O7 pkGEK8JtlGV0A29GmRBI5aMf1GelXoIPEU9QB91EireJ1EylofC36g66QMWut9wkmaFV JQChC4tBjPQorGj0b6ixG60ntNx03pyAJLCcyy9OHTpkMdLr2KMUNDrN9kt99tfLNfmh Xd8VGfV9Hx1wpGfHHhPMFCdixYKDfyl1r0C6oKM/c3BeIbk3lrGYR/SgNGeRYSFp3jDx iz/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcA/uvr2Dc9ElgoAF2n0PZfF1RHUWoy1thZ9aRRPKdM/ffL847DU fEwwuwE15ORpjD/K X-Received: by 10.200.58.163 with SMTP id x32mr12879922qte.110.1496872166799; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p22sm1990220qkp.26.2017.06.07.14.49.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:49:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_21226692-1477-44B1-AA65-177BDDD0F981" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:25 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201706072125.v57LPHu8070750@givry.fdupont.fr> Cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org To: Francis Dupont References: <201706072125.v57LPHu8070750@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 21:49:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_21226692-1477-44B1-AA65-177BDDD0F981 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Francis Dupont = wrote: > I am afraid you are replacing the address bootstrap mess by the = security > bootstrap mess but there is a security protocol which includes address > bootstrapping, it is IKEv2 so IMHO we should try it as on the paper > it has all we need. Pretty much everything you said here assumes that the DHCP client has a = routable address. It's the fact that it doesn't that makes this hard. Also, a key agreement protocol is probably not a good idea if we care = about privacy. And we already talked about how to do TOFU, and I think that applies = just as well here as to the current spec. --Apple-Mail=_21226692-1477-44B1-AA65-177BDDD0F981 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr> wrote:
I am afraid you are replacing the address = bootstrap mess by the security
bootstrap mess but = there is a security protocol which includes address
bootstrapping, it is IKEv2 so IMHO we should try = it as on the paper
it has all we = need.

Pretty= much everything you said here assumes that the DHCP client has a = routable address.   It's the fact that it doesn't that makes this = hard.

Also, a = key agreement protocol is probably not a good idea if we care about = privacy.

And = we already talked about how to do TOFU, and I think that applies just as = well here as to the current spec.

= --Apple-Mail=_21226692-1477-44B1-AA65-177BDDD0F981-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 15:13:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AA112EB2B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mu_jr-JJj0QX for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CB5E1270A7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57LwB8K072713; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 23:58:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706072158.v57LwB8K072713@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:19:15 -0400. Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:58:11 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 22:13:04 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > The point of this joke is that actually I don't have any problem with = > encryption being done in the kernel, but I don't see how to make it work = > for this use case, because we don't have end-to-end communication with = > the server. => the theory of IPsec operations is very simple: you have two databases: - the Security Association DataBase - the Security Policy Database. When you have a packet you see in the SPD what to do. If the policy is to do some IPsec processing on the packet you look for the parameters in the SADB and if there is no SA when there should be one then you ask IKE to create one (in fact a pair). So the configuration consists into populating the SPD (e.g. by setkey) and to say to IKE what to do (define peers, credentials, a zillion of options). Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From nobody Wed Jun 7 15:26:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6936C12EB62 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:26:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r3oYT9oQTrQX for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x232.google.com (mail-qt0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A04AE13148D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x232.google.com with SMTP id c10so22889803qtd.1 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:26:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=VV2mFPkP1ZZ9kye0S0LlxP4m8Krv/IhyK3fLJrip59E=; b=jgrorCRQHkcuDAoyvtsjsF/MGuh/vNh944ixCju07a7EbpwuggHcdmwXcx5e0D1D63 Z27EO0I2YLYsJhYxWIKumTgjjuN9fxk3LOqp5hbGOF7/iOVtzzXl9sJS54h/RJNIFi9F i0bSU2k3JIA/oOabLesxlALfE3o8/tygpM/khXhfjbK2F/vFe3t5xXXkq74Kmxmh1n45 WcFIbteS29WPSzMAs0amiN7CaeamIr3FkY+DxTESaoQ6GMcmhkmp1e+TeoVahtk0Zd4t I87ILZDGZO8FKOw/e4pStS3R8dVNXAON+uGq3Dk1k499r/489BEVOW29+pSWPQcTtUhe QBEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=VV2mFPkP1ZZ9kye0S0LlxP4m8Krv/IhyK3fLJrip59E=; b=btO6o0aKoxAdLD5/pIGLz84IawHalx63kMEq3Agla7AM3Glt95BxjHSSfVgqeUJb9W WhtbToLaslVT58KXskOS5PQnJ/Zz9UcX9fzhJu3wd3VzND4vB/jJUtrOXgbVYZOs0/O/ hAVec5OrWwestWk9elg4hBkyAAbAkYrP9xuT5QHJjXrDr0QUCd9JMASumqtOFg3gJ6CJ NCf/+0OWSPoXfCcFmBZEQvLirv/EUKPxAStC8roNyASMOjjQg+nGnfLqhQNQ3mCVjFsV jfYziiiG8PubL7lXzP5bmZliouRODk9UWyx/5wxsJWmHwtWp1UcCPNqpiYAze5vsQEo2 eP6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAwYYejdbQI38mz7xhO4RYI7aEzoabNIq9q8vPHzj3Kx0XCk4+V 8WGKuJALVBYTeynH X-Received: by 10.237.59.20 with SMTP id p20mr42650752qte.95.1496874392769; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p56sm1993264qta.18.2017.06.07.15.26.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:26:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <32EF9515-3518-4D50-B718-B2B3A8839346@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F4C6C152-D832-43E3-AA35-FC8FC650CC60" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:26:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201706072158.v57LwB8K072713@givry.fdupont.fr> Cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg To: Francis Dupont References: <201706072158.v57LwB8K072713@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 22:26:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F4C6C152-D832-43E3-AA35-FC8FC650CC60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Francis Dupont = wrote: > =3D> the theory of IPsec operations is very simple: you have two = databases: > - the Security Association DataBase > - the Security Policy Database. > When you have a packet you see in the SPD what to do. If the policy is > to do some IPsec processing on the packet you look for the parameters > in the SADB and if there is no SA when there should be one then you = ask > IKE to create one (in fact a pair). > So the configuration consists into populating the SPD (e.g. by setkey) > and to say to IKE what to do (define peers, credentials, a zillion of > options). Right. That's what I mean. The encrypted payload is going to the host = where the relay agent is running, which doesn't have the key to decrypt = the payload. And so the packet is never delivered to the relay agent, = and hence never forwarded to the DHCP server. --Apple-Mail=_F4C6C152-D832-43E3-AA35-FC8FC650CC60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr> wrote:
=3D> the theory of IPsec operations is = very simple: you have two databases:
- the Security = Association DataBase
- the Security = Policy Database.
When you have a = packet you see in the SPD what to do. If the policy is
to do some IPsec processing on the packet you = look for the parameters
in the SADB and if = there is no SA when there should be one then you ask
IKE to create one (in fact a pair).
So the configuration consists into populating = the SPD (e.g. by setkey)
and to say to IKE = what to do (define peers, credentials, a zillion of
options).

Right.  That's what I mean.   The = encrypted payload is going to the host where the relay agent is running, = which doesn't have the key to decrypt the payload.   And so the = packet is never delivered to the relay agent, and hence never forwarded = to the DHCP server.

= --Apple-Mail=_F4C6C152-D832-43E3-AA35-FC8FC650CC60-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 16:17:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE681270B4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:17:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A_C0KE8yMxKg for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F826126D45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57N2XbZ076691; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:02:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706072302.v57N2XbZ076691@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:49:25 -0400. Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 01:02:33 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:17:29 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > On Jun 7, 2017, at 5:25 PM, Francis Dupont = > wrote: > > I am afraid you are replacing the address bootstrap mess by the = > security > > bootstrap mess but there is a security protocol which includes address > > bootstrapping, it is IKEv2 so IMHO we should try it as on the paper > > it has all we need. > > Pretty much everything you said here assumes that the DHCP client has a = > routable address. => requiring a routable address is what I called the "address bootstrap" mess. Note we don't need one, just to be able to send a packet to the server and if possible not using multicast (multicast is where the embedded relay can help). Note that IKE or DTLS works over link-local addresses so you can protect directly client-relay. It's the fact that it doesn't that makes this hard. => yes, the info-request / stateless case is easier. > Also, a key agreement protocol is probably not a good idea if we care = > about privacy. => by key agreement I mean a Diffie-Hellman variant (more ECDH or X25519). Cf Russ Housley's message. I can't see what is the impact on privacy: it is just a parameter saying which variant, and a public random/opaque value which can be changed for each init (DISCOVER/SOLICIT) message. > And we already talked about how to do TOFU, and I think that applies = > just as well here as to the current spec. => TOFU is a server policy. Another problem with all IKE, DTLS and reinvented similar mechanisms is that it is not possible to protect both identities against active attacks (cf the SIGMA conf paper) so if we want mutual authentication we have to choose protocols which protect the client/initiator identity (for instance to put the client public key in clear text in the first message is not good even against passive attacks). Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS: as candidates with have HIP, and also some EAP/PANA extensions to do encryption (IMHO more to get ideas than to use). PPS: before going further it seems we should first agree about what we want... From nobody Wed Jun 7 16:37:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47F51293E3 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:37:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6P8pSS5NXZov for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E4E1128CD5 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v57NMdgh078025; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:22:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706072322.v57NMdgh078025@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:26:30 -0400. <32EF9515-3518-4D50-B718-B2B3A8839346@fugue.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 01:22:39 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:37:33 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > Right. That's what I mean. The encrypted payload is going to the host = > where the relay agent is running, which doesn't have the key to decrypt = > the payload. And so the packet is never delivered to the relay agent, = > and hence never forwarded to the DHCP server. => I don't understand your argument: if you send an encrypted packet to a box without the proper security association of course it does not work. This has nothing to do with IPsec and will happen with DTLS too or anything secure protocol which carries DHCP messages. As I said we are squeezed between the address bootstrap mess (this problem) and the security bootstrap mess (the problem that current secure DHCPv6 tries and IMHO fails to solve). So I strongly suggest to write what we want and to reduce problems to things we know to do reusing as most as possible already existing protocols. On the paper hop-by-hop IPsec works and for the privacy only we have the opportunistic IPsec idea so it seems a good point to start (and as it is transparent for DHCP is clearly out of the scope of both the DHCP WG and this list, argh! :-). Thanks Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From nobody Wed Jun 7 16:45:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0A613148B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:45:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BlrDRhuhRKfw for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10F1E129439 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id w1so24294362qtg.2 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:45:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=i7rG1PmFdskNPFOiALhz8M5SoAHBegl7SR6h+iS3YfU=; b=FSidJLVokLvIJXUMAK7i8kWareAnwwjVkwgzcqrqMGi0ijJpyrBNF5Xw2rWqNa9NS9 8XUKRpcF+ZLUZYKkPj2CHlfNToR8dXJiR2bFsw7TJy374GUzP4lgod3ZTct1Y3Xf1xT1 iK8olKx4j1L5MHxMrgp5GTPLCRCL0QlrESbqhityGrREVvhS0lWorQljWtYEpk8YEA2/ T9Ry/0wUo8EbFN3Tz7IxMxdfZz/qC8DFyWmAzKvcjOdjCSRkr2FxdIIX4uM/Wf9uiKWY fZSdFuAStp151tbFK4fCP59/YS5aSxZytX1Oiu1uoQo+BxZKcjkJdnok7fhEWFLKgm4S OWjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=i7rG1PmFdskNPFOiALhz8M5SoAHBegl7SR6h+iS3YfU=; b=dnQRx3QaHVs6m5OIp37yvUXqLo+0VbJvmUPuVazVFN+dQ1QdpbmwNJFXGpBH0OqkrD /n6sfQW34uh0zred3fsZCBXW9lsKinUsjR3hoVb5wlSNikcb8SZ4tE5Fa7bP6yoVv8HI xuwH25Og5VHjw2zWtgZ/70wjLQKAx9zHAXTki5YSJpjyyTQW+N3C62Ng158cthOM4LAa mqorkdtO3VK3pMoAYLhkvCRhVy0cq4HD+CwS/GVj/TU3eTfoaYYGYw7rE1BjSi7CfDmL ffDRUfcuGAzed8wQ6DMuNI5rAiHe3mF9VFSGD57bKcHfWD55vJAvODBlzCMXYR8AfTeD rM6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOw12PjAdWxl7o5svVnKgoc1hyGJ+8x+FUOTnglB7ffYeezNSqjK MRpoDX+UE1mdXPOF X-Received: by 10.55.54.7 with SMTP id d7mr3033379qka.258.1496879136250; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.30.228] (c-73-167-64-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.167.64.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l23sm1823771qtl.24.2017.06.07.16.45.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7B632677-4EDF-4848-8BC4-FB6C72D3E813" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 19:45:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <201706072322.v57NMdgh078025@givry.fdupont.fr> Cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg To: Francis Dupont References: <201706072322.v57NMdgh078025@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:45:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7B632677-4EDF-4848-8BC4-FB6C72D3E813 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 7:22 PM, Francis Dupont = wrote: > =3D> I don't understand your argument: if you send an encrypted packet > to a box without the proper security association of course it does not > work. This has nothing to do with IPsec and will happen with DTLS too > or anything secure protocol which carries DHCP messages. The relay agent can forward an encrypted payload that it receives. It = can't forward a cleartext payload from an encrypted packet it couldn't = decode. --Apple-Mail=_7B632677-4EDF-4848-8BC4-FB6C72D3E813 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Jun 7, 2017, at 7:22 PM, Francis Dupont <Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr> wrote:
=3D> I don't understand your argument: = if you send an encrypted packet
to a box without = the proper security association of course it does not
work. This has nothing to do with IPsec and will = happen with DTLS too
or anything secure = protocol which carries DHCP messages.

The relay agent can forward an encrypted = payload that it receives.   It can't forward a cleartext payload = from an encrypted packet it couldn't decode.

= --Apple-Mail=_7B632677-4EDF-4848-8BC4-FB6C72D3E813-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 16:50:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3EC129439 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:50:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QY4sE44NkHXD for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x22c.google.com (mail-lf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AC0A128CD5 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id a136so11709043lfa.0 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wUmx2TSZ/XBE84aH8DPPDYRSjy4Uzsn8CR8Vh8y3mYk=; b=u6/8zePWQXTh2cxKVOOokfJTkQVJNtHYB4bkpP8JsgXrXue6WBp0MsdGyE26hBYSG7 PWxYifp6Mx5iCRUfzziu7kOBuDnCBACJDmYhc8L/JYaeYHdzM3mYIYxRr8fEvO3WiMQn cNl9Ws6hDhM+lnbuspxTJFmmeTVuUlbX3AfK8u0IX2M5vwxzwzgJLTmrAYa9kYarmvnZ LC7awvV2MydUwBE63F8uoDwpLGyZdXTbfNkjSe8Xr0TjBEUGu2UE6zi8SVrdlCJCigbk tBxxn98ntfFvZbZkmmM+4Bl0HeB3IK2YRs8GtbRiEBNCr5j6apc+7c7JMryfuj2QtZ+9 cRfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wUmx2TSZ/XBE84aH8DPPDYRSjy4Uzsn8CR8Vh8y3mYk=; b=ViVGMUKf7CqA4sSop0X02+BKhcy8XMIjJk0kQnyOGT/7niOUo11jhg9rR1jDGk7wX0 Cjbh9B+mc0OXI8bCXjDGEvchxUmfEJoD0oOE2xygO0RbLUohE4j8Q5vKZKawLOVf7HF3 MhQG1KqZYPJNQ+JeQ7vIZ73z9JF+wrKlTy8jHMfHQJv/hMqpukF9viOtCBZpaxKmg9Vd d52UPAvHpy+Id16pC2yrHyIfhkoZBtgQGkCRLsLt/4bTPigHx0RMffGojhhoG+gIyvk2 jVdJ33rzv2ZD0CXa8qlr2+FscltI6RkIVSVEuZivMVbsmfqw8hy/eZ3VJF7KQVAYJBap s0JA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAKLleA1LItuQNMhzP8+8b2vpxAObVJYi/236lsBsnOvWOsJCC/ 9fg8uvSXiNaED7BZ X-Received: by 10.25.25.142 with SMTP id 136mr9451855lfz.178.1496879436070; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.7] (109241207033.gdansk.vectranet.pl. [109.241.207.33]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q81sm634304lfb.54.2017.06.07.16.50.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:50:35 -0700 (PDT) To: dhcwg@ietf.org References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Shawn Routhier Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:50:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:50:40 -0000 Here are the comments I received from Shawn Routhier. He asked me to relay them to the DHC list due to some e-mail issues. Nits: Section 1.1 "Service for IPv6s" => "Service for IPv6" "errata filled" => "errata filed" Section 4.2 DHCP Client: "it may feature the" => "it may include the" DHCP Server: "it may also feature the" => "it may also include the" Feature isn't wrong but it is a bit odd. IA: "and identity association for" => "an identity association for" singleton option: "once as a the" => "once as a" It probably would have been useful to include a definition of "other configuration" 5.3 "updates its configuration" => "update its configuration" 6 "the servers via specific interface," => "the servers via a specific interface," 6.6 para 3 "to request larger prefix" => "to request a larger prefix" 7.3 REPLY: "Solicit, Request, Renew, Rebind" => "Solicit, Request, Renew or Rebind" 11 para 2 "such are those defined" => "such as those defined" 16 para 2 "ignore such message completely" => "ignore such a message completely" 18.2.4 "include IA Prefix option with the IPv6-prefix" => "include an IA Prefix option with the IPv6-prefix "is terminated when earliest time T2" => "is terminated when the earliest time T2" 18.2.10, para 2 "options in an Reply" => "options in a Reply" Not quite nits, but still not major 6.3, last paragraph The text goes from client to router and back to client. It might be a bit better as If the client assigns a delegated prefix to a link to which the client is attached as a router, and begins to send router advertisements for the 6.6 This section discusses multiple addresses via multiple IA_NA or IA_TAs should it include any text about multiple addresses per IA_NA or IA_TA (even if that text is simply to discourage it)? 12.2 This section has the line "A client must create at least one distinct IA_PD" It would be useful to qualify that to only clients that want a PD need to have an IA_PD. 18.2.4 I'm unclear why the last paragraph (about moving from renew to rebind at T2) has the the extra text about reconfigure. It seems to be it could be stated a bit more bluntly: The message exchange is terminated when the earliest time T2 is reached and The client begins a Rebind message exchange (see Section 18.2.5). If the client was responding to a Reconfigure, the client ignores and discards the Reconfigure message. 18.3 para 3 "a Reply in response to a Request," => "a Reply in response to Request," 18.3.2 There are a couple of typos in this ppart of the text and I'm not sure what "the presence" refers to. Currently sending this option in Reply is technically redundant, as the use of the reconfiguration mechanism requires an authentication and currently the only defined one is Reconfigure Key Authentication Protocol (see Section 20.4 for details) and the presence or reconfigure key signals support for Reconfigure acceptance. However, I think this is what it is trying to say Currently sending this option in Reply is technically redundant, as the use of the reconfiguration mechanism requires authentication and currently the only one defined is Reconfigure Key Authentication Protocol (see Section 20.4 for details) and the presence of a reconfigure key signals support for Reconfigure acceptance. However, 21.4 'non-temporary addresses; "it is up' => 'non-temporary addresses; it is up' (there is an extra double quote in the sentence) Tomek Mrugalski (on behalf of Shawn Routhier) From nobody Wed Jun 7 16:51:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A147D131493 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:50:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M5h6ZaoiYOFS for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x230.google.com (mail-lf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 443DA13148D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id p189so11699719lfe.2 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:50:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wUmx2TSZ/XBE84aH8DPPDYRSjy4Uzsn8CR8Vh8y3mYk=; b=Z0ifHdGWVCck+cOPia7ywVWL8eaYljALJBzDyDJNz7A70Nln8ldwr3r+3RzinTeiH+ i/LF5s9PI7rJKAbbOTuDMHfzUtEG4pvJZyAYDDghrSU3RwZkTdhY0TxNlAO+NS9VoNQ4 jwC4px+c8Gn2z3NoQXOM1lAQlJidJxyKmVetPRf1nsUnd0PvpODmXC2FR9QEgtB8+aXq QtBu224yumoYcVWETWxlhKLhZ4Yy8Ry8t89LNj4hU8T7a/6xS9tye6RhyQKajfQdmOw4 chKKqxQgPhgtF1sdTbr2YOfDOxvDJjhHEDY3YVrNhTyDVfrQzCyZp1z2JVQHnK/ZOnVf aIlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wUmx2TSZ/XBE84aH8DPPDYRSjy4Uzsn8CR8Vh8y3mYk=; b=UU49OFBJoYpVyH0zCsEfkuy6zClg4u0E0bwYmi3YH7C0flmoJsJ4f8OLELhmFcLKnT bdxowNJbAkGfhV7XG/ATs3+Qe7eaL9htrw5x5oet/XLWf9CCJWfgbY9S4XTyCmOEU6dW mOYAuI7C53IZDF0HAnPl6za2ghCrH28hNI9aU4ewOsgBWcaxUnEmmgD2cCidGzPLcb4j rfNBUWIvgITqTKcid8brB0XRURlJ2Dk2E6Rvsc5wWt40VDzfLcZE6exCoJ9/0RDt3w9n 52TcgE9eAs9nleoF5R5/iUF0Db9ITBbb2oT1fRkG3mnQibgix37kPY5Rs+5tJ5bjced2 k/wg== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBRRksuV1rsfXi9ASy0yff5qaUjkt4hN1qkc1znMfJ7W+37aN1O nU3blYG5uV+rXNGQ X-Received: by 10.46.7.25 with SMTP id 25mr9081766ljh.5.1496879444190; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.7] (109241207033.gdansk.vectranet.pl. [109.241.207.33]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 184sm643260ljf.8.2017.06.07.16.50.42 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:50:42 -0700 (PDT) To: dhcwg@ietf.org References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Shawn Routhier Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:50:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:50:50 -0000 Here are the comments I received from Shawn Routhier. He asked me to relay them to the DHC list due to some e-mail issues. Nits: Section 1.1 "Service for IPv6s" => "Service for IPv6" "errata filled" => "errata filed" Section 4.2 DHCP Client: "it may feature the" => "it may include the" DHCP Server: "it may also feature the" => "it may also include the" Feature isn't wrong but it is a bit odd. IA: "and identity association for" => "an identity association for" singleton option: "once as a the" => "once as a" It probably would have been useful to include a definition of "other configuration" 5.3 "updates its configuration" => "update its configuration" 6 "the servers via specific interface," => "the servers via a specific interface," 6.6 para 3 "to request larger prefix" => "to request a larger prefix" 7.3 REPLY: "Solicit, Request, Renew, Rebind" => "Solicit, Request, Renew or Rebind" 11 para 2 "such are those defined" => "such as those defined" 16 para 2 "ignore such message completely" => "ignore such a message completely" 18.2.4 "include IA Prefix option with the IPv6-prefix" => "include an IA Prefix option with the IPv6-prefix "is terminated when earliest time T2" => "is terminated when the earliest time T2" 18.2.10, para 2 "options in an Reply" => "options in a Reply" Not quite nits, but still not major 6.3, last paragraph The text goes from client to router and back to client. It might be a bit better as If the client assigns a delegated prefix to a link to which the client is attached as a router, and begins to send router advertisements for the 6.6 This section discusses multiple addresses via multiple IA_NA or IA_TAs should it include any text about multiple addresses per IA_NA or IA_TA (even if that text is simply to discourage it)? 12.2 This section has the line "A client must create at least one distinct IA_PD" It would be useful to qualify that to only clients that want a PD need to have an IA_PD. 18.2.4 I'm unclear why the last paragraph (about moving from renew to rebind at T2) has the the extra text about reconfigure. It seems to be it could be stated a bit more bluntly: The message exchange is terminated when the earliest time T2 is reached and The client begins a Rebind message exchange (see Section 18.2.5). If the client was responding to a Reconfigure, the client ignores and discards the Reconfigure message. 18.3 para 3 "a Reply in response to a Request," => "a Reply in response to Request," 18.3.2 There are a couple of typos in this ppart of the text and I'm not sure what "the presence" refers to. Currently sending this option in Reply is technically redundant, as the use of the reconfiguration mechanism requires an authentication and currently the only defined one is Reconfigure Key Authentication Protocol (see Section 20.4 for details) and the presence or reconfigure key signals support for Reconfigure acceptance. However, I think this is what it is trying to say Currently sending this option in Reply is technically redundant, as the use of the reconfiguration mechanism requires authentication and currently the only one defined is Reconfigure Key Authentication Protocol (see Section 20.4 for details) and the presence of a reconfigure key signals support for Reconfigure acceptance. However, 21.4 'non-temporary addresses; "it is up' => 'non-temporary addresses; it is up' (there is an extra double quote in the sentence) Tomek Mrugalski (on behalf of Shawn Routhier) From nobody Wed Jun 7 17:19:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE44012704B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:19:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AOqYg36taBfo for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FB04126DFF for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v58050lw080684; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 02:05:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201706080005.v58050lw080684@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Ted Lemon cc: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= , dhcwg In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:45:34 -0400. Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 02:05:00 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP hackathon in Prague: SeDHCPv6 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 00:19:53 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > The relay agent can forward an encrypted payload that it receives. It = > can't forward a cleartext payload from an encrypted packet it couldn't = > decode. => we agree: a relay agent can handle an encrypted payload if this payload is inside a DHCP message, and can't handle it if a DHCP message is in this payload. So if we want to support the intermediate relay case either the DHCP protocol is modified, or the client and the first relay agent are end points of a security association. Note this could disqualify DTLS & co as it is unlikely we accept to have to update relay agents. Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From nobody Thu Jun 8 15:05:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06672127B73; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQ2hBryX2Eia; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C3C3129535; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 0B22AB814C0; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, dhcwg@ietf.org Message-Id: <20170608220500.0B22AB814C0@rfc-editor.org> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] RFC 8156 on DHCPv6 Failover Protocol X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 22:05:07 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8156 Title: DHCPv6 Failover Protocol Author: T. Mrugalski, K. Kinnear Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: June 2017 Mailbox: tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, kkinnear@cisco.com Pages: 96 Characters: 214505 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-failover-protocol-06.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8156 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8156 DHCPv6 as defined in "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6)" (RFC 3315) does not offer server redundancy. This document defines a protocol implementation to provide DHCPv6 failover, a mechanism for running two servers with the capability for either server to take over clients' leases in case of server failure or network partition. It meets the requirements for DHCPv6 failover detailed in "DHCPv6 Failover Requirements" (RFC 7031). This document is a product of the Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Fri Jun 9 13:34:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E94129462 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 13:34:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:34:42 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Kim Kinnear (kkinnear)" CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLI0aZmS0Xgn7D6S1m3YZ8hZorkbQHY1rYABEnzLyA= Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:34:42 +0000 Message-ID: <3d27edc099de40d4a265b8e3fe8d13a0@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <455226D6-0A37-4D3E-A5BA-1832D1E3BB99@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <455226D6-0A37-4D3E-A5BA-1832D1E3BB99@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 20:34:48 -0000 S2ltOg0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSB0aG9yb3VnaCByZXZpZXcuIEkgdGhpbmsgSSBkaWQgKGFs bW9zdCkgYWxsIG9mIHRoZXNlLiBZb3Ugd2lsbCBzZWUgdGhlbSBpbiB0aGUgLTA5IHdoZW4gcHVi bGlzaGVkLg0KDQpPbmUgdGhhdCBJIHNraXBwZWQgaXMgIzE5IGFzIHdlIHVzZSB0aGlzIGNvbnZl bnRpb24gaW4gb3RoZXIgcGxhY2VzICh0b3RhbCBvZiA3KSBpbiB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2hlbiB0 aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGlzIGp1c3QgZm9yIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uYWwgcHVycG9zZXMgKGZvbGxvd2lu ZyB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGlzbid0IGtleSB0byB0aGUgcG9pbnQgYmVpbmcgbWFkZSBhbmQgaXMg anVzdCAiRm9yIFlvdXIgSW5mb3JtYXRpb24iIGlmIHlvdSBjYXNlKS4gSSBoYXZlIHJhaXNlZCBp dCBmb3IgdGhlIGNvLWF1dGhvcnMgdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB0byBzZWUgaWYgd2Ugd2FudCB0byByZW1v dmUgdGhlIHBhcmVudGhlc2lzIGV2ZXJ5d2hlcmUsIHN3aXRjaCB0byBjb21tYXMsIG9yIGxlYXZl IGFzIGlzLiBXZSBtYXkgYWxzbyBqdXN0IHB1bnQgdGhpcyB0byBzZWUgd2hhdCB0aGUgUkZDLUVk 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ZSdyZSBPSyB3aXRoIHRoaXMgYXMgaXMuDQoNCi0tDQpKSU5NRUksIFRhdHV5YQ0K From nobody Fri Jun 16 11:28:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F5C12EC0E for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:28:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bTQUkTToNOIz for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x229.google.com (mail-qt0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEA2612ECBE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x229.google.com with SMTP id u19so74216864qta.3 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:28:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=gKa0e0oQ/2Fgt3JWLZ2plpKt7dJM3gizRh+lzLQreB4=; b=AEOZHJcwzBJhBudGoGUOG/cVFiKQ3ewQUKlitbxQyoz9e+awAHk0kRdcy0+bTYVlk1 IZbtLzgMkBHOq5DpM+1Y6nYwcYv+Dw6kxUHJLIYfmEQuw5P2rpPkWUcFJpsICWYdOWaM cFXyi/UGi/lGaQQ4sz1xitz0HYXXW8mC/+hrb0QNOqWBvrMkPF692N9Jbgh0clvq54S9 RlY3PEc9Yy4HKgtcoISEGQLFkbtcvl1pDpaSA13+B7F0JJ4yxejIFsLx1zQq/VWZdNKN k1x3a1IsepETj4sldN1sJa2st8LGNeefn8beOd9qo8Vnd44bVarKr2oiZj/Mt9XmyeXP Ajug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 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<8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:28:43 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: HRRkCZiGBOlxifZD7Sg-OGPk65g Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 18:28:47 -0000 At Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:13:56 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > We are working to get the -09 version out before the July 3rd > IETF-99 cutoff. And, I think we're waiting on text for you regarding > one item: I don't think I promised I would offer text :-) but I admit I should have provided some followup much earlier. > > > BV> Unless you provide text, I think we'll leave this alone as > > > mentioned earlier we feel that this document is not the one that > > > should describe how these lifetimes are to be used. > > > This is not just about wording. It's about actual protocol > > behavior, and I don't even know if we have common consensus on it. > > I also think we can't simply ignore the issue by being silence, > > since it could result in a bad situation like a site keeps > > advertising a prefix in RA as a preferred one even when it's > > already "deprecated" or even "invalidated" in terms of prefix > > delegation. I'll see if I can offer something more concrete, but > > I'd like to raise it as a possible blocking issue. As I said before (in the quoted text) I actually suspect it's premature to talk about specific text before discussion. So let me talk about what I think is an issue more specifically. First off, what's this preferred lifetime in the first place? Section 21.22 simply says: preferred-lifetime The recommended preferred lifetime for the prefix in the option, expressed in units of seconds. A value of 0xFFFFFFFF represents infinity. What does this "recommended" mean? As far as I can see it's not explained anywhere else in the draft. But one possible, or likely, interpretation would be that it's a recommendation for addresses configured from this prefix. More specifically, it would be to use it as the preferred lifetime of a prefix information option (PIO) of RA for the delegated prefix (or prefixes derived from the delegated prefix). Assuming that, consider some more concrete issue: Assume a PD client gets an /64 IA_PD prefix with preferred lifetime being 1 week (an arbitrary choice). If T1/T2 of the IA_PD follows the recommended value of Section 21.21, the client will try to renew it in 3.5 days. Meanwhile, this prefix is typically advertised in the downstream link in the prefix information option (PIO) of RA. Assuming the above interpretation of "recommendation", a straightforward implementation of it is to set the preferred lifetime of the PIO to 6 days. End hosts receiving this prefix will configure their addresses, resetting its preferred lifetime to 6 days every time it receives the PIO (which is periodically advertised, usually every several minutes). In 3.5 days the PD client starts renewing the prefix. But, now suppose this exchange doesn't succeed (even after the client switches to REBOUND). Then what should happen in 6 days? Should the delegated prefix now be considered "deprecated"? And what would that mean? Should the preferred lifetime value of the corresponding RA PIO be reset to 0 from this point? And, what if the PD client can't even RENEW/REBOUND until the valid lifetime expires? If, like above, the valid lifetime value is copied from IA_PD prefix to RA PIO, end hosts will have an address with a pretty large valid lifetime (in this example scenario, at least 6 days) at the time of expiration due to the periodic RA advertisements. And, even if the advertised PIO valid lifetime is set to 0 at that point, end clients will still keep using the address for two hours (see RFC4862). I actually don't know whether/how existing implementations deal with cases like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are naive implementation that simply copies the preferred/valid lifetimes from PD to RA, potentially having the problems described above. I suspect we've not heard problem reports in the actual deployment simply because the lifetimes are sufficiently long compared to possible network outage periods, and also perhaps because if this problem happens because the upstream becomes unreachable, then it doesn't matter much anyway if the end clients keep using "expired" addresses. Still, as a protocol design I think it's a kind of defect and we cannot just rely on the operational conditions. So, can we agree there's a potential problem as some of the definitions and the usage are not clear enough, aside from whether that should be addressed in rfc3315bis? -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Fri Jun 16 11:35:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD6A1200C1 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q4EeA2jxDt6Y for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x232.google.com (mail-qt0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 666AA12ECBE for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x232.google.com with SMTP id u12so74584722qth.0 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=BuRoOtTTgNT/o9JfjTgQrOsXpgoNxarUdq5Ud7oOCLs=; b=E0lqaonfT+27lE5trvf1fnu8BZyfrFiCm067DwLEEsc8JLE28iH8sYgtvTAlmUOffL lHvCI4DNsRnhsociXZf8a186U/vYTe20Pw3b3927cZNOqVITiVPE5eXNyRFawLfz20W6 6KwI05BFYpIJB+hrcWkp/GBr5+SXKzvv5zsB11bz5W/Dm6ZsyBSF9K42e/H5bkWJ7ONO 6vXYAUI3b/m+7XErRCH3Rkh+vKNHVyAPk51J6V0NEVuiYQe0l37sYtTw9kXwKQDqd71y JP4GijbKNp0aIZWrN2OhFwm6RgpKX+md+xagszp1V8Bz/z22EwjHEljp9c3wSK90rLRR fLOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BuRoOtTTgNT/o9JfjTgQrOsXpgoNxarUdq5Ud7oOCLs=; b=fjVtM/zvdXmqFZalpSjsBBXSs4aZEg0zzbiXS7ZMiO5rJBeZ43gF1Mlg17mjF5MKQn u5zwbtJkQIVMHDHltCS/wtGZY+xMMu6K370gDT2pyB0kzk7wGMXzqXnBwEVzDTzPKEFs VHLt3+a+pUWgXLNCNE2ZTowWEqRRmeH2lrfN88IRVNZGKw/SI3qS8+4/UX8E6inkYwO7 bRN7sG+F8lde78nC5+FQO+L7n0tFJ+xWIqEdux90OGBaavwB4a6HiyjuVgB2TFXw84eI /PgN2QkMTeESPxEBDC/ZeGA2BEcU75ZuP+izkYcOfdMRunyhytlW/2jq/Vo6u4iO5VGL IJlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzy3qIzKfeJHhNAI/hYhgVzEe3qhL8bMUyDkx630i3PE+yxuwl7 fAWL/Azw3bBsJvyBcXzw55j1GQWyOw== X-Received: by 10.55.158.208 with SMTP id h199mr13988596qke.254.1497638135448; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com Received: by 10.237.60.53 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:35:34 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: OVlQDFAZjbrrMNL7O2-g32qZ_xA Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 18:35:39 -0000 (Sorry, I've noticed a minor but possibly very confusing typo in my previous message. I'm replacing the whole text with correcting it below. Please ignore the previous one) At Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:13:56 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > We are working to get the -09 version out before the July 3rd > IETF-99 cutoff. And, I think we're waiting on text for you regarding > one item: I don't think I promised I would offer text :-) but I admit I should have provided some followup much earlier. > > > BV> Unless you provide text, I think we'll leave this alone as > > > mentioned earlier we feel that this document is not the one that > > > should describe how these lifetimes are to be used. > > > This is not just about wording. It's about actual protocol > > behavior, and I don't even know if we have common consensus on it. > > I also think we can't simply ignore the issue by being silence, > > since it could result in a bad situation like a site keeps > > advertising a prefix in RA as a preferred one even when it's > > already "deprecated" or even "invalidated" in terms of prefix > > delegation. I'll see if I can offer something more concrete, but > > I'd like to raise it as a possible blocking issue. As I said before (in the quoted text) I actually suspect it's premature to talk about specific text before discussion. So let me talk about what I think is an issue more specifically. First off, what's this preferred lifetime in the first place? Section 21.22 simply says: preferred-lifetime The recommended preferred lifetime for the prefix in the option, expressed in units of seconds. A value of 0xFFFFFFFF represents infinity. What does this "recommended" mean? As far as I can see it's not explained anywhere else in the draft. But one possible, or likely, interpretation would be that it's a recommendation for addresses configured from this prefix. More specifically, it would be to use it as the preferred lifetime of a prefix information option (PIO) of RA for the delegated prefix (or prefixes derived from the delegated prefix). Assuming that, consider some more concrete issue: Assume a PD client gets an /64 IA_PD prefix with preferred lifetime being 7 days (an arbitrary choice). If T1/T2 of the IA_PD follows the recommended value of Section 21.21, the client will try to renew it in 3.5 days. Meanwhile, this prefix is typically advertised in the downstream link in the prefix information option (PIO) of RA. Assuming the above interpretation of "recommendation", a straightforward implementation of it is to set the preferred lifetime of the PIO to 7 days. End hosts receiving this prefix will configure their addresses, resetting its preferred lifetime to 7 days every time it receives the PIO (which is periodically advertised, usually every several minutes). In 3.5 days the PD client starts renewing the prefix. But, now suppose this exchange doesn't succeed (even after the client switches to REBOUND). Then what should happen in 7 days? Should the delegated prefix now be considered "deprecated"? And what would that mean? Should the preferred lifetime value of the corresponding RA PIO be reset to 0 from this point? And, what if the PD client can't even RENEW/REBOUND until the valid lifetime expires? If, like above, the valid lifetime value is copied from IA_PD prefix to RA PIO, end hosts will have an address with a pretty large valid lifetime (in this example scenario, at least 7 days) at the time of expiration due to the periodic RA advertisements. And, even if the advertised PIO valid lifetime is set to 0 at that point, end clients will still keep using the address for two hours (see RFC4862). I actually don't know whether/how existing implementations deal with cases like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are naive implementation that simply copies the preferred/valid lifetimes from PD to RA, potentially having the problems described above. I suspect we've not heard problem reports in the actual deployment simply because the lifetimes are sufficiently long compared to possible network outage periods, and also perhaps because if this problem happens because the upstream becomes unreachable, then it doesn't matter much anyway if the end clients keep using "expired" addresses. Still, as a protocol design I think it's a kind of defect and we cannot just rely on the operational conditions. So, can we agree there's a potential problem as some of the definitions and the usage are not clear enough, aside from whether that should be addressed in rfc3315bis? -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Fri Jun 16 19:27:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E4F12EAB1 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:27:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <76FCC89F28D4B64AB84FF1D092F04FEC@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 02:27:49 -0000 SmlubWVpOg0KDQpNeSByZWFjdGlvbiBpcyB5b3UgYXJlIHdyb25nIOKAkyB0aGUgUElPIHdvdWxk LCB3aGVuZXZlciBzZW50LCBiZSBzZW50IHdpdGggdGhlIHByZWZlcnJlZCBhbmQgdmFsaWQgbGlm ZXRpbWUgUkVNQUlOSU5HIG9uIHRoZSBQRCBsZWFzZS4gU28sIHN1cmUgYSBQSU8gc2VudCBqdXN0 IGFmdGVyIHRoZSBQRCBsZWFzZSBzdGFydGVkIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgKGNsb3NlKSB0byB0aGUgZnVs bCB2YWx1ZXMsIGJ1dCB0aGUgdmFsdWVzIHNlbnQgYW4gaG91ciBsYXRlciB3b3VsZCBiZSAxIGhv dXIgbGVzcyB0aGFuIHRoZXkgd2VyZS4NCg0KVGh1cywgSSBkb27igJl0IHNlZSBhIHByb2JsZW0g YXMgdGhlIHByZWZlcnJlZCBhbmQgdmFsaWQgbGlmZXRpbWUgb2YgdGhlIFBJTyBydW4gZG93biBh 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ESMTP id 4E6011293E1; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:40:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhc-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security@ietf.org, suresh.krishnan@gmail.com, Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <149788682131.10732.16501038696161023608.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:40:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Protocol Action: 'Security of Messages Exchanged Between Servers and Relay Agents' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-05.txt) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:40:21 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Security of Messages Exchanged Between Servers and Relay Agents' (draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security-05.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Suresh Krishnan and Terry Manderson. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security/ Technical Summary DHCPv4 has no guidance for how to secure messages exchanged between servers and relay agents. The DHCPv6 states that IPsec should be used to secure messages exchanged between servers and relay agents, but does not require encryption. And, with recent concerns about pervasive monitoring and other attacks, it is appropriate to require securing relay to relay and relay to server communication for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6. This draft codifies how to use IPsec with encryption to secure that communication. Working Group Summary This draft was created as a result of a concern raised by during IESG review of draft-ietf-dhc-access-network-identifier (https:// mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dhcwg/17b2yzdJOS1hif95kRIQXidudI8). The issue was the DHCP options could reveal user identifying information when a client communicates with a server via relay(s). This was a generic DHCP issue, so the decision was made to write a separate draft. Using IPsec for that purpose seems to be an obvious choice and that is what the draft proposes. This draft was first presented in Buenos Aires (April 2016) and later in Berlin (July 2016) and got unanimous support in the room on both occasions. It was adopted in Sep. 2016. The draft is very short (a bit over 2 pages of actual content) and changed very little between its first individual revision and the rev that passed WGLC. That is understandable, as it codifies the obvious solution implied by RFC3315 and was written by two experienced engineers (one of them being DHC co-chair). This is also the reason why this draft received fewer comments than average. There were a large number of messages related to this draft posted to DHC list and a handful more circulated off the list. Document Quality This document is of high quality. The reviews it received may seem like not too thorough, but that's because of the draft's shortness and a high quality of its initial version. The document shepherd reviewed -01 version of this draft had some minor comments. They were addressed in -02. Personnel Tomek Mrugalski is the document shepherd. Suresh Krishnan is the responsible AD. From nobody Mon Jun 19 10:55:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644E2131770 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:55:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVVPD3vQOa7K for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [149.20.64.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FECD131727 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zmx1.isc.org (zmx1.isc.org [149.20.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D56DB3493CF; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmx1.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFB3D160048; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A753A16006D; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmx1.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zmx1.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id M5kmkqw0XEve; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jmb.localhost (unknown [104.129.198.81]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6FDB160048; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:55:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:55:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms In-Reply-To: <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/24.5 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:55:14 -0000 At Sat, 17 Jun 2017 02:27:39 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > My reaction is you are wrong =E2=80=93 the PIO would, whenever sent, be s= ent > with the preferred and valid lifetime REMAINING on the PD lease. So, > sure a PIO sent just after the PD lease started would have (close) > to the full values, but the values sent an hour later would be 1 > hour less than they were. Actually I agreed. I guess what we're different is the view on how obvious it is. I suspect this is not so obvious and there are actually implementations that can cause the situation where deprecated/invalidated addresses are used. There may even be an implementation that naively copies the lifetimes from PD to RA PIO. I've monitored RAs advertised in my apartment room. The ISP is Comcast and the default router is Apple time capsule. The lifetimes advertised in RA PIO are constant and do not decrease as I monitored it in multiple consecutive RAs. Of course, it doesn't immediately mean the time capsule device uses the 'naive' approach. I actually don't even know if PD is used or the time capsule is the PD client. And the time capsule might actually have some safety buffer period and use a much lower lifetimes for PIO than those provided in PD. Still, I think this can be a potential anecdote to suggest there might be a problematic implementation. So I don't think it at least doesn't harm if we say that lifetimes of site addresses derived from the delegated prefix MUST NOT exceed the remaining time of the lifetimes in the last-received corresponding PD. (I don't think we have to specify exactly how to implement this restriction). -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Mon Jun 19 11:11:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F25412949E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:11:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mmVhkcsT4Cxj for ; 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d="scan'208";a="437684972" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Jun 2017 18:10:56 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (xch-aln-002.cisco.com [173.36.7.12]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5JIAuLi019646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:10:56 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:10:55 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 13:10:55 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: =?utf-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= , Timothy Winters CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLI0aZmS0Xgn7D6S1m3YZ8hZorkbQLWe7cAAIVlReABPEJZgAKF0ckgAGu0AYAACFfvgACNW58A///BWQA= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:10:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.22.0.170515 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.195] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <41F74BA5C64D9745A515890C42C7062D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:11:04 -0000 SeKAmXZlIGFkZGVkIFRpbSBXaW50ZXJzIGFzIHBlcmhhcHMgaGUgY2FuIHNoZWQgc29tZSBsaWdo dCBvbiB0aGlzIGluIHRlcm1zIG9mIHdoYXQgaXMgdGVzdGVkIGF0IHRoZSBOSCBJbnRlcm9wZXJh YmlsaXR5IExhYiBmb3IgUEQgLyBDUEVzPw0KDQpFdmVuIGlmIGEgZGV2aWNlIGRvZXNu4oCZdCBm b2xsb3cgdGhpcyAocnVubmluZyBkb3duIHRoZSBsaWZldGltZXMpLCB3aGF04oCZcyBsaWtlbHkg dG8gaGFwcGVuIHdoZW4gdGhlIFBEIGV4cGlyZXMgaXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgdHJhZmZpYyB3aWxsIGhv cGVmdWxseSBubyBsb25nZXIgYmUgZm9yd2FyZGVkIGJ5IHRoZSByb3V0ZXIgKGFuZCB3aXRoIGEg SUNNUCBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbiB1bnJlYWNoYWJsZSBub3RpZmljYXRpb24pIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBzIFJB cyB3aWxsIGJlIHNlbnQgd2l0aCAwIGxpZmV0aW1lcyB0byBhdHRlbXB0IHRvIGRlcHJlY2F0ZSB0 aGUgcHJlZml4IChhbmQgYW55IGFzc2lnbmVkIGFkZHJlc3NlcykgdXNlIGFzIHF1aWNrbHkgYXMg cG9zc2libGU/DQoNClJhbHBoIG9yIE9sZSBtaWdodCBhbHNvIGhhdmUgYSBjb21tZW50IHdpdGgg cmVzcGVjdCB0byB3aGF0IHRoZXkgZXhwZWN0ZWQgYSByZXF1ZXN0aW5nIHJvdXRlciB0byBkbyBi YXNlZCBvbiB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgUkZDIDM2MzM/IEkgZG9u4oCZdCB0aGluayB0aGlzIDMzMTVi aXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgaXRzZWxmIGNhdXNlZCB0aGlzIHBvdGVudGlhbCBjb25mdXNpb24gdG8gZXhp c3Q/DQoNCi0gQmVybmllDQoNCk9uIDYvMTkvMTcsIDE6NTUgUE0sICJKSU5NRUkgVGF0dXlhIC8g 56We5piO6YGU5ZOJIiA8amlubWVpLnRhdHV5YUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQogICAgQXQg U2F0LCAxNyBKdW4gMjAxNyAwMjoyNzozOSArMDAwMCwNCiAgICAiQmVybmllIFZvbHogKHZvbHop IiA8dm9sekBjaXNjby5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KICAgIA0KICAgID4gTXkgcmVhY3Rpb24gaXMgeW91 IGFyZSB3cm9uZyDigJMgdGhlIFBJTyB3b3VsZCwgd2hlbmV2ZXIgc2VudCwgYmUgc2VudA0KICAg ID4gd2l0aCB0aGUgcHJlZmVycmVkIGFuZCB2YWxpZCBsaWZldGltZSBSRU1BSU5JTkcgb24gdGhl IFBEIGxlYXNlLiBTbywNCiAgICA+IHN1cmUgYSBQSU8gc2VudCBqdXN0IGFmdGVyIHRoZSBQRCBs ZWFzZSBzdGFydGVkIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgKGNsb3NlKQ0KICAgID4gdG8gdGhlIGZ1bGwgdmFsdWVz LCBidXQgdGhlIHZhbHVlcyBzZW50IGFuIGhvdXIgbGF0ZXIgd291bGQgYmUgMQ0KICAgID4gaG91 ciBsZXNzIHRoYW4gdGhleSB3ZXJlLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIEFjdHVhbGx5IEkgYWdyZWVkLiAgSSBn dWVzcyB3aGF0IHdlJ3JlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBpcyB0aGUgdmlldyBvbiBob3cNCiAgICBvYnZpb3Vz IGl0IGlzLiAgSSBzdXNwZWN0IHRoaXMgaXMgbm90IHNvIG9idmlvdXMgYW5kIHRoZXJlIGFyZQ0K ICAgIGFjdHVhbGx5IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucyB0aGF0IGNhbiBjYXVzZSB0aGUgc2l0dWF0aW9u IHdoZXJlDQogICAgZGVwcmVjYXRlZC9pbnZhbGlkYXRlZCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgYXJlIHVzZWQuICBU aGVyZSBtYXkgZXZlbiBiZSBhbg0KICAgIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIHRoYXQgbmFpdmVseSBjb3Bp ZXMgdGhlIGxpZmV0aW1lcyBmcm9tIFBEIHRvIFJBIFBJTy4NCiAgICANCiAgICBJJ3ZlIG1vbml0 b3JlZCBSQXMgYWR2ZXJ0aXNlZCBpbiBteSBhcGFydG1lbnQgcm9vbS4gIFRoZSBJU1AgaXMNCiAg ICBDb21jYXN0IGFuZCB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCByb3V0ZXIgaXMgQXBwbGUgdGltZSBjYXBzdWxlLiAg VGhlIGxpZmV0aW1lcw0KICAgIGFkdmVydGlzZWQgaW4gUkEgUElPIGFyZSBjb25zdGFudCBhbmQg ZG8gbm90IGRlY3JlYXNlIGFzIEkgbW9uaXRvcmVkDQogICAgaXQgaW4gbXVsdGlwbGUgY29uc2Vj dXRpdmUgUkFzLiAgT2YgY291cnNlLCBpdCBkb2Vzbid0IGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5DQogICAgbWVhbiB0 aGUgdGltZSBjYXBzdWxlIGRldmljZSB1c2VzIHRoZSAnbmFpdmUnIGFwcHJvYWNoLiAgSSBhY3R1 YWxseQ0KICAgIGRvbid0IGV2ZW4ga25vdyBpZiBQRCBpcyB1c2VkIG9yIHRoZSB0aW1lIGNhcHN1 bGUgaXMgdGhlIFBEIGNsaWVudC4NCiAgICBBbmQgdGhlIHRpbWUgY2Fwc3VsZSBtaWdodCBhY3R1 YWxseSBoYXZlIHNvbWUgc2FmZXR5IGJ1ZmZlciBwZXJpb2QgYW5kDQogICAgdXNlIGEgbXVjaCBs b3dlciBsaWZldGltZXMgZm9yIFBJTyB0aGFuIHRob3NlIHByb3ZpZGVkIGluIFBELiAgU3RpbGws DQogICAgSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGNhbiBiZSBhIHBvdGVudGlhbCBhbmVjZG90ZSB0byBzdWdnZXN0 IHRoZXJlIG1pZ2h0IGJlIGENCiAgICBwcm9ibGVtYXRpYyBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbi4NCiAgICAN CiAgICBTbyBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIGl0IGF0IGxlYXN0IGRvZXNuJ3QgaGFybSBpZiB3ZSBzYXkg dGhhdCBsaWZldGltZXMgb2YNCiAgICBzaXRlIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBkZXJpdmVkIGZyb20gdGhlIGRl bGVnYXRlZCBwcmVmaXggTVVTVCBOT1QgZXhjZWVkIHRoZQ0KICAgIHJlbWFpbmluZyB0aW1lIG9m IHRoZSBsaWZldGltZXMgaW4gdGhlIGxhc3QtcmVjZWl2ZWQgY29ycmVzcG9uZGluZw0KICAgIFBE LiAgKEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgd2UgaGF2ZSB0byBzcGVjaWZ5IGV4YWN0bHkgaG93IHRvIGltcGxl bWVudCB0aGlzDQogICAgcmVzdHJpY3Rpb24pLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIC0tDQogICAgSklOTUVJLCBU YXR1eWENCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Mon Jun 19 11:32:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F838126D85 for ; 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Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:32:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.228 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:32:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> From: Timothy Winters Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:32:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: =?UTF-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113f4c605549510552545cb1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:32:49 -0000 --001a113f4c605549510552545cb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernie, We have CE Routers that countdown from when the IA_PD is received, and others that always transmit the lifetime received in the IA_PD in RA (Always the same). It's about 50/50 at the moment. When we were working on testing for 6024/7084 this was a topic that was discussed but it wasn't clear answer on what to do with the lifetimes. You are correct that when the prefix timeout from the IA_PD it will stop forwarding and transmit a Destination Unreachable message. Regards, Tim On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) wrote: > I=E2=80=99ve added Tim Winters as perhaps he can shed some light on this = in terms > of what is tested at the NH Interoperability Lab for PD / CPEs? > > Even if a device doesn=E2=80=99t follow this (running down the lifetimes)= , what=E2=80=99s > likely to happen when the PD expires is that the traffic will hopefully n= o > longer be forwarded by the router (and with a ICMP destination unreachabl= e > notification) and perhaps RAs will be sent with 0 lifetimes to attempt to > deprecate the prefix (and any assigned addresses) use as quickly as > possible? > > Ralph or Ole might also have a comment with respect to what they expected > a requesting router to do based on the original RFC 3633? I don=E2=80=99t= think > this 3315bis document itself caused this potential confusion to exist? > > - Bernie > > On 6/19/17, 1:55 PM, "JINMEI Tatuya / =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93= =89" > wrote: > > At Sat, 17 Jun 2017 02:27:39 +0000, > "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > > > My reaction is you are wrong =E2=80=93 the PIO would, whenever sent= , be sent > > with the preferred and valid lifetime REMAINING on the PD lease. So= , > > sure a PIO sent just after the PD lease started would have (close) > > to the full values, but the values sent an hour later would be 1 > > hour less than they were. > > Actually I agreed. I guess what we're different is the view on how > obvious it is. I suspect this is not so obvious and there are > actually implementations that can cause the situation where > deprecated/invalidated addresses are used. There may even be an > implementation that naively copies the lifetimes from PD to RA PIO. > > I've monitored RAs advertised in my apartment room. The ISP is > Comcast and the default router is Apple time capsule. The lifetimes > advertised in RA PIO are constant and do not decrease as I monitored > it in multiple consecutive RAs. Of course, it doesn't immediately > mean the time capsule device uses the 'naive' approach. I actually > don't even know if PD is used or the time capsule is the PD client. > And the time capsule might actually have some safety buffer period an= d > use a much lower lifetimes for PIO than those provided in PD. Still, > I think this can be a potential anecdote to suggest there might be a > problematic implementation. > > So I don't think it at least doesn't harm if we say that lifetimes of > site addresses derived from the delegated prefix MUST NOT exceed the > remaining time of the lifetimes in the last-received corresponding > PD. (I don't think we have to specify exactly how to implement this > restriction). > > -- > JINMEI, Tatuya > > > --=20 Now offering testing for SDN applications and controllers in our SDN switch test bed. Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR --001a113f4c605549510552545cb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bernie,

We have CE Routers that coun= tdown from when the IA_PD is received, and others that always transmit the = lifetime received in the IA_PD in RA (Always the same). =C2=A0 It's abo= ut 50/50 at the moment. =C2=A0 When we were working on testing for 6024/708= 4 this was a topic that was discussed but it wasn't clear answer on wha= t to do with the lifetimes.

You are correct that w= hen the prefix timeout from the IA_PD it will stop forwarding and transmit = a Destination Unreachable message. =C2=A0=C2=A0

Regards,
Tim

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz= @cisco.com> wrote:
I=E2=80= =99ve added Tim Winters as perhaps he can shed some light on this in terms = of what is tested at the NH Interoperability Lab for PD / CPEs?

Even if a device doesn=E2=80=99t follow this (running down the lifetimes), = what=E2=80=99s likely to happen when the PD expires is that the traffic wil= l hopefully no longer be forwarded by the router (and with a ICMP destinati= on unreachable notification) and perhaps RAs will be sent with 0 lifetimes = to attempt to deprecate the prefix (and any assigned addresses) use as quic= kly as possible?

Ralph or Ole might also have a comment with respect to what they expected a= requesting router to do based on the original RFC 3633? I don=E2=80=99t th= ink this 3315bis document itself caused this potential confusion to exist?<= br>
- Bernie

On 6/19/17, 1:55 PM, "JINMEI Tatuya / =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5= =93=89" <jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 At Sat, 17 Jun 2017 02:27:39 +0000,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > My reaction is you are wrong =E2=80=93 the PIO would, wh= enever sent, be sent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > with the preferred and valid lifetime REMAINING on the P= D lease. So,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sure a PIO sent just after the PD lease started would ha= ve (close)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > to the full values, but the values sent an hour later wo= uld be 1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > hour less than they were.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Actually I agreed.=C2=A0 I guess what we're different is = the view on how
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 obvious it is.=C2=A0 I suspect this is not so obvious and the= re are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 actually implementations that can cause the situation where =C2=A0 =C2=A0 deprecated/invalidated addresses are used.=C2=A0 There may ev= en be an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 implementation that naively copies the lifetimes from PD to R= A PIO.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I've monitored RAs advertised in my apartment room.=C2=A0= The ISP is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Comcast and the default router is Apple time capsule.=C2=A0 T= he lifetimes
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertised in RA PIO are constant and do not decrease as I mo= nitored
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 it in multiple consecutive RAs.=C2=A0 Of course, it doesn'= ;t immediately
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mean the time capsule device uses the 'naive' approac= h.=C2=A0 I actually
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 don't even know if PD is used or the time capsule is the = PD client.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 And the time capsule might actually have some safety buffer p= eriod and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 use a much lower lifetimes for PIO than those provided in PD.= =C2=A0 Still,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think this can be a potential anecdote to suggest there mig= ht be a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 problematic implementation.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 So I don't think it at least doesn't harm if we say t= hat lifetimes of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 site addresses derived from the delegated prefix MUST NOT exc= eed the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 remaining time of the lifetimes in the last-received correspo= nding
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PD.=C2=A0 (I don't think we have to specify exactly how t= o implement this
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restriction).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 JINMEI, Tatuya





--
=

Now offering testing for SDN ap= plications and controllers in our SDN switch test bed.=C2=A0Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR=

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milestone "Submit 3315bis draft to IESG", set due date to August 2017 from April 2017. Changed milestone "Recharter, if needed", set due date to November 2017 from March 2017. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dhc/about/ From nobody Fri Jun 23 17:18:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC81212EBA5; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org, suresh.krishnan@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149826283876.7840.3161459411172372118.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] dhc - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:07:21 -0000 Dear Bernie Volz, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. dhc Session 1 (1:30:00) Wednesday, Afternoon Session I 1330-1500 Room Name: Athens/Barcelona size: 100 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Dynamic Host Configuration Area Name: Internet Area Session Requester: Bernie Volz Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: v6ops 6man softwire homenet Second Priority: sunset4 dnssd dnsop intarea People who must be present: Suresh Krishnan Bernie Volz Tomek Mrugalski Resources Requested: Special Requests: One co-chair is NOT able to attend Friday (must return to US early Friday AM). We are still finalizing agenda & not yet clear whether we need 90 minutes. So, OK with 60 minutes if that helps. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Jun 24 14:28:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC64124D68 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:28:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 16:28:45 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Timothy Winters , =?utf-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLI0aZmS0Xgn7D6S1m3YZ8hZorkbQLWe7cAAIVlReABPEJZgAKF0ckgAGu0AYAACFfvgACNW58A///BWQCAAEkOAP//zF+A//gVIMA= Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 21:28:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.242.115] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_d64e4247d2bc4fc18a83a3f80591f95cXCHALN003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 21:28:51 -0000 --_000_d64e4247d2bc4fc18a83a3f80591f95cXCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGk6DQoNCkFueSBmZWVkYmFjayBvbiB0aGlzIHByb3Bvc2VkIHRleHQ/DQoNCkl0IHdvdWxkIGJl IG5pY2UgdG8gYmUgYWJsZSB0byBwdWJsaXNoIGFuIC0wOSBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIDcvMyBkZWFkbGlu ZSBmb3IgSUVURi05OSwgYW5kIHBlcmhhcHMgZXZlbiBzZW5kIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgb24gdG8g dGhlIElFU0cgKGFzc3VtaW5nIFJhbHBoIGJlbGlldmVzIHRoZXJlIGlzIGNvbnNlbnN1cyB0byBk byBzbykuDQoNCkFuIGFsdGVybmF0aXZlLCB3aGljaCBpbiByZXRyb3NwZWN0IEkgdGhpbmsgSSB3 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=?utf-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLI0aZmS0Xgn7D6S1m3YZ8hZorkbQLWe7cAAIVlReABPEJZgAKF0ckgAGu0AYAACFfvgACNW58A///BWQCAAEkOAP//zF+A//gVIMD/66epAA== Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:15:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.253.126] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_af0871015b7d4e6d9325ac91226e1436XCHALN003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:15:34 -0000 --_000_af0871015b7d4e6d9325ac91226e1436XCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGk6DQoNCjJuZCB0cnkgdG8gc2VlIGlmIHRoZXJl4oCZcyBhbnkgY29tbWVudHMgb24gdGhpcy4g VHJ5aW5nIHRvIGNsb3NlIG91dCB0aGUgLTA5IHZlcnNpb24gYmVmb3JlIHRoZSBJRVRGLTk5IGRl YWRsaW5lICg3LzMpLg0KDQoNCi0gICAgICAgICAgQmVybmllDQoNCkZyb206IGRoY3dnIFttYWls dG86ZGhjd2ctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEJlcm5pZSBWb2x6ICh2b2x6 KQ0KU2VudDogU2F0dXJkYXksIEp1bmUgMjQsIDIwMTcgMjoyOSBQTQ0KVG86IFRpbW90aHkgV2lu dGVycyA8dHdpbnRlcnNAaW9sLnVuaC5lZHU+OyBKSU5NRUkgVGF0dXlhIC8g56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ IDxqaW5tZWkudGF0dXlhQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBkaGN3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgUmFscGggRHJv 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:05:04 -0000 At Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:15:29 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > 2nd try to see if there=E2=80=99s any comments on this. Trying to close o= ut > the -09 version before the IETF-99 deadline (7/3). Sorry for the delay, I've been offline. As for your proposed text: If the client assigns a delegated prefix to a link to which the router is attached, and begins to send router advertisements for the prefix on the link, the preferred and valid lifetime in those advertisements MUST be no larger than the remaining preferred and valid lifetimes, respectively, for the delegated prefix at the time the router advertisement is sent. it addresses my main concern. I'd personally generalize it a bit, though. For example: If the client uses a delegated prefix to configure addresses on interfaces on itself or other nodes behind it, the preferred and valid lifetimes of those addresses MUST be no larger than the remaining preferred and valid lifetimes, respectively, for the delegated prefix at any time. In particular, if the delegated prefix or a prefix derived from it is advertised for stateless address autoconfiguration [RFC4862], the advertised valid and preferred lifetimes MUST NOT exceed the corresponding remaining lifetimes of the delegated prefix. Here I tried to not limit the use of lifetimes to SLAAC (for example, they could be used in DHCPv6 for the delegated site), while explicitly noting the SLAAC case as we now know there are implementations that violate it. I'd also update the description of the PD 'preferred-lifetime' (Section 21.22 in the 08 version) from: preferred-lifetime The recommended preferred lifetime for the prefix in the option, expressed in units of seconds. A value of 0xFFFFFFFF represents infinity. to, for example: preferred-lifetime The preferred lifetime for the prefix in the option, expressed in units of seconds. This lifetime does not affect the protocol behavior of prefix delegation, but has implication on addresses generated using the prefix (see below). A value of 0xFFFFFFFF represents infinity. Here I avoided the term "recommended" as it's not clear what it means (I asked this before in this thread but no one answered) and provided the description of this value I envision. "see below" refers to the additional note we're discussing above. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Tue Jun 27 16:23:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F7D126B7F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:23:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:23:49 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLI0aZmS0Xgn7D6S1m3YZ8hZorkbQLWe7cAAIVlReABPEJZgAKF0ckgAGu0AYAACFfvgACNW58A///BWQCAAEkOAP//zF+A//gVIMD/66epAAUqtWAAAA4C24A= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:23:49 +0000 Message-ID: <44C31F53-9D69-4110-BEB6-65AE902EB2B8@cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.22.0.170515 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.253.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <18461F4205462342BC24E860A71EB482@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:23:54 -0000 SGkgSklOTUVJOg0KDQpJIGxpa2UgeW91ciByZXZpc2VkIHRleHQsIOKAnElmIHRoZSBjbGllbnQg dXNlcyBhIGRlbGVnYXRlZCDigKbigJ0uDQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIsIEkgdGhpbmsgSeKAmWQgbGlrZSB0 byBsZWF2ZSB0aGUgcHJlZmVycmVkLWxpZmV0aW1lIGRlZmluaXRpb24gYXMgaXQgd2FzICh3aXRo b3V0IHRoZSDigJxyZWNvbW1lbmRlZOKAnSkuDQoNClRoZSByZWFzb24gaXMgdGhhdDoNCjEuIFBy ZWZlcnJlZCBsaWZldGltZSBkb2VzIGltcGFjdCB0aGUgcHJvdG9jb2wgYmVoYXZpb3IgaW4gdGhh 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XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:43:37 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 Thread-Index: AdLI0aZmS0Xgn7D6S1m3YZ8hZorkbQLWe7cAAIVlReABPEJZgAKF0ckgAGu0AYAACFfvgACNW58A///BWQCAAEkOAP//zF+A//gVIMD/66epAAUqtWAAAA4C24AAG1T8gA== Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:43:36 +0000 Message-ID: <11007951-E0AE-466C-ABE9-8A05ACE9E25D@cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> <44C31F53-9D69-4110-BEB6-65AE902EB2B8@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <44C31F53-9D69-4110-BEB6-65AE902EB2B8@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.22.0.170515 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.253.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:43:41 -0000 RllJIOKAkyBUaGUgY2hhbmdlIGNhbiBiZSB2aWV3ZWQgYXQ6DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNv bS9kaGN3Zy9yZmMzMzE1YmlzL2NvbW1pdC81OWExMzRhY2JiYjNlMmFkNTQ1ZTMyOTY1NDc3MDdk ZjNkMzJhZWNjDQoNCi0gQmVybmllDQoNCk9uIDYvMjcvMTcsIDQ6MjMgUE0sICJkaGN3ZyBvbiBi ZWhhbGYgb2YgQmVybmllIFZvbHogKHZvbHopIiA8ZGhjd2ctYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBi ZWhhbGYgb2Ygdm9sekBjaXNjby5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQogICAgSGkgSklOTUVJOg0KICAgIA0K 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X19fDQogICAgZGhjd2cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgZGhjd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRw czovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RoY3dnDQogICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 27 18:06:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2298129B22 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c-Af7UIMZeHc for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEE4612EA64 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id i2so38528266qta.3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:06:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XPFFU497wqcvdYpgsnXOt8009p/chTAR1pb5ko4LNZg=; b=kMyIzLn+zKVWCpsvBKuFkZVxbUbwWUlM4BVBYROvGNhNAel/bS+FMbtbodegWDoYzD 3TQTXkzpfi5RK7fWGLn7xE4uAkcmlF6CUiv1Sk1TdxCxqoCVMFXBACG48KmzURGJmvX2 90ZhJ92nJZN2tAXmgiWFjMSv0mbJa5Eao/jbkzJalD1PP0G5EpEu4Q3aOXac87h17Wkz xbCwxAbnqYEMFuONgATG7sq424vidsJ2FvFbMrUQ1q5MjTYNi70mLuwqJyFHJainy4ql 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HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:06:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <44C31F53-9D69-4110-BEB6-65AE902EB2B8@cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> <44C31F53-9D69-4110-BEB6-65AE902EB2B8@cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:06:10 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FEVeiG1jrXz6Ki3ly0tV_JDthBQ Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:06:17 -0000 At Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:23:49 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > However, I think I=E2=80=99d like to leave the preferred-lifetime definit= ion > as it was (without the =E2=80=9Crecommended=E2=80=9D). If the awkward "recommended" is removed, it works for me. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Wed Jun 28 17:30:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE33126C83; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 17:30:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 17:30:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 00:30:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration of the IETF. Title : Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6) bis Authors : Tomek Mrugalski Marcin Siodelski Bernie Volz Andrew Yourtchenko Michael C. Richardson Sheng Jiang Ted Lemon Timothy Winters Filename : draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt Pages : 140 Date : 2017-06-28 Abstract: This document describes the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6): an extensible mechanism for configuring nodes with network configuration parameters, IP addresses, and prefixes. Parameters can be provided statelessly, or in combination with stateful assignment of one or more IPv6 addresses and/or IPv6 prefixes. DHCPv6 can operate either in place of or in addition to stateless address autoconfiguration (SLAAC). This document updates the text from RFC3315, the original DHCPv6 specification, and incorporates prefix delegation (RFC3633), stateless DHCPv6 (RFC3736), an option to specify an upper bound for how long a client should wait before refreshing information (RFC4242), a mechanism for throttling DHCPv6 clients when DHCPv6 service is not available (RFC7083), and clarifies the interactions between modes of operation (RFC7550). As such, this document obsoletes RFC3315, RFC3633, RFC3736, RFC4242, RFC7083, and RFC7550. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/