From nobody Wed Jul 5 09:21:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55CCA13153B for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:21:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wVpsZNfTLNDl for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2621413194F for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v65GLkMf020372 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 18:21:46 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 96CEF20165A for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 18:21:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D82A20157D for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 18:21:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v65GLksf001561 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 18:21:46 +0200 To: dhcwg@ietf.org References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 18:21:46 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 16:21:50 -0000 What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the IPv6 header? (The ISC and a Cisco client set it at 255, whereas odhcp6c client at 1. The dst address is a ff02. The ND link messaging uses Hop Limit 255.) Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix Delegation Solicit, or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the intention is to only request the Prefix, because the address comes from RA). Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation Solicit? (the intention is to get the DNS server from RA, but some client puts an empty ORO there). Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix Delegation? Is the GUA mandatory, or could LL do it as well? (some server seems to require it to be a GUA). Alex Le 29/06/2017 à 02:30, internet-drafts@ietf.org a écrit : > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host > Configuration of the IETF. > > Title : Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 > (DHCPv6) bis Authors : Tomek Mrugalski Marcin Siodelski > Bernie Volz Andrew Yourtchenko Michael C. Richardson Sheng Jiang Ted > Lemon Timothy Winters Filename : > draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt Pages : 140 Date > : 2017-06-28 > > Abstract: This document describes the Dynamic Host Configuration > Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6): an extensible mechanism for configuring > nodes with network configuration parameters, IP addresses, and > prefixes. Parameters can be provided statelessly, or in combination > with stateful assignment of one or more IPv6 addresses and/or IPv6 > prefixes. DHCPv6 can operate either in place of or in addition to > stateless address autoconfiguration (SLAAC). > > This document updates the text from RFC3315, the original DHCPv6 > specification, and incorporates prefix delegation (RFC3633), > stateless DHCPv6 (RFC3736), an option to specify an upper bound for > how long a client should wait before refreshing information > (RFC4242), a mechanism for throttling DHCPv6 clients when DHCPv6 > service is not available (RFC7083), and clarifies the interactions > between modes of operation (RFC7550). As such, this document > obsoletes RFC3315, RFC3633, RFC3736, RFC4242, RFC7083, and RFC7550. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > From nobody Wed Jul 5 15:59:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5125B12EC4A for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F74WkGIX5gTk for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C89A12EA95 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v65Mwwma032922; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:58 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.219]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v65Mwn6c032788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:49 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdb::8988:efdb) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:48 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:48 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS9arVhBw2kgo3pEWYMQAXDUpSSKJF160Q Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 22:58:48 +0000 Message-ID: <9bedd8473ac24dec9e82b7850347efcf@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:59:01 -0000 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cmZjMzMxNWJpcy0wOQ0KPiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtl IGEgY291cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgdGltZSBvZg0KPiA+IHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gdW50 aWwgdGhlIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdA0KPiA+IHRv b2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnRzIGFyZSBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJs ZSBieSBhbm9ueW1vdXMgRlRQIGF0Og0KPiA+IGZ0cDovL2Z0cC5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1k cmFmdHMvDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXyBkaGN3ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiBkaGN3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZyBodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RoY3dnDQo+ID4NCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IGRoY3dnIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KPiBkaGN3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2RoY3dnDQo= From nobody Thu Jul 6 08:40:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0721317C4 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 08:40:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CXlhMTjQnTRi for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7697D1317CE for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v66FehnL007667; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:40:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id ABB08202D7E; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:40:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE64202C7E; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:40:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v66Fehnx022011; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:40:43 +0200 To: "Templin, Fred L" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <9bedd8473ac24dec9e82b7850347efcf@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:40:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9bedd8473ac24dec9e82b7850347efcf@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 15:40:52 -0000 Le 06/07/2017 à 00:58, Templin, Fred L a écrit : > Hi Alex, > >> Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix Delegation? >> Is the GUA mandatory, or could LL do it as well? (some server seems to >> require it to be a GUA). > > How would the client get the GUA before it does the PD Solicit? SLAAC? SLAAC or some other unknown under-IP protocol. > IA_NA Solicit? The server does not want to hear IA_NA, I dont know why. > What if all the client needs is the PD and no other GUAs? If the server could do it, and if it could provide the default route, it would be really great. > With my code, I do PD Solicit with link-local source address with no > problems. I have been using the kea DHCP server, but it seems like > it should work for other servers as well. I dont know what server my operator uses but I speculate it to be either Cisco, or Ericsson or a clone. Is KEA server able to work on cellular links? Alex > > Thanks - Fred > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu >> Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 9:22 AM >> To: dhcwg@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation >> >> What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the IPv6 header? >> >> (The ISC and a Cisco client set it at 255, whereas odhcp6c client at 1. >> The dst address is a ff02. >> The ND link messaging uses Hop Limit 255.) >> >> Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix Delegation >> Solicit, or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the intention is to only >> request the Prefix, because the address comes from RA). >> >> Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation Solicit? (the >> intention is to get the DNS server from RA, but some client puts an >> empty ORO there). >> >> Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix Delegation? >> Is the GUA mandatory, or could LL do it as well? (some server seems to >> require it to be a GUA). >> >> Alex >> >> >> Le 29/06/2017 à 02:30, internet-drafts@ietf.org a écrit : >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host >>> Configuration of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 >>> (DHCPv6) bis Authors : Tomek Mrugalski Marcin Siodelski >>> Bernie Volz Andrew Yourtchenko Michael C. Richardson Sheng Jiang Ted >>> Lemon Timothy Winters Filename : >>> draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt Pages : 140 Date >>> : 2017-06-28 >>> >>> Abstract: This document describes the Dynamic Host Configuration >>> Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6): an extensible mechanism for configuring >>> nodes with network configuration parameters, IP addresses, and >>> prefixes. Parameters can be provided statelessly, or in combination >>> with stateful assignment of one or more IPv6 addresses and/or IPv6 >>> prefixes. DHCPv6 can operate either in place of or in addition to >>> stateless address autoconfiguration (SLAAC). >>> >>> This document updates the text from RFC3315, the original DHCPv6 >>> specification, and incorporates prefix delegation (RFC3633), >>> stateless DHCPv6 (RFC3736), an option to specify an upper bound for >>> how long a client should wait before refreshing information >>> (RFC4242), a mechanism for throttling DHCPv6 clients when DHCPv6 >>> service is not available (RFC7083), and clarifies the interactions >>> between modes of operation (RFC7550). As such, this document >>> obsoletes RFC3315, RFC3633, RFC3736, RFC4242, RFC7083, and RFC7550. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis/ >>> >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >>> tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list >>> dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Fri Jul 7 00:06:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCFB13155C for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 00:06:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y5Fcr8taALmt for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 00:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24DB4126579 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 00:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6775mPC010324; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 09:05:49 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id E6AB1201FDA; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 09:05:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08BC202003; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 09:05:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6775mhi028898; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 09:05:48 +0200 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , Timothy Winters , =?UTF-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <6f7fc559-d6c7-9479-2086-c68dac2e0d64@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 09:05:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 07:06:00 -0000 Bernie, This activity look scomplex to me, but here is my two cents. Le 24/06/2017 à 23:28, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > Hi: > > Any feedback on this proposed text? > > It would be nice to be able to publish an -09 before the 7/3 deadline > for IETF-99, and perhaps even send this document on to the IESG > (assuming Ralph believes there is consensus to do so). > > An alternative, which in retrospect I think I would prefer, would be > for the PIO to use the remaining preferred and valid lifetime on the > lease and just say that explicitly. That may be cleanest? So, that > proposed text would be: > > If the client assigns a delegated prefix to a link to which the > router is attached, What do you mean by the link to which the router is attached? Is there a link to which the router is not attached? Is there a link to which the router attaches instead of being attached? Is it the ff02 link on which it issued a Solicit? Alex and begins to send router advertisements for > > the prefix on the link, the preferred and valid lifetime in those > advertisements > > MUST be no larger than the remaining preferred and valid lifetimes, > respectively, > > for the delegated prefix at the time the router advertisement is > sent. > > Please let me know which of the two versions you’d prefer, or suggest > an alternative. > > -Bernie > > *From:*Bernie Volz (volz) *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 3:28 PM *To:* > Timothy Winters ; JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 > *Cc:* dhcwg@ietf.org; Ralph Droms > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for > draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 > > Thanks Tim. That’s useful, and shows that we do need to be more > explicit. > > There are two places in draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 (section 6.3 and > 18.2.10.1) where we have the following text: > > If the client assigns a delegated prefix to a link to which the > > router is attached, and begins to send router advertisements for > > the prefix on the link, the client MUST set the valid lifetime in > > those advertisements to be no later than the valid lifetime > > specified in the IA_PD option. A client MAY use the preferred > > lifetime specified in the IA_PD option. > > The “no later” has been changed to “no larger”. And, actually the > IA_PD option is wrong (it should be IAPREFIX option, as that holds > the lifetimes). > > Perhaps what we really should say is something like: > > If the client assigns a delegated prefix to a link to which the > > router is attached, and begins to send router advertisements for > > the prefix on the link, the valid lifetime in those advertisements > > MUST be no larger than the remaining valid lifetime > > for the delegated prefix. A client MAY use the preferred > > lifetime as originally received in the IAPREFIX option, provided that > whatever > > value is used is less than or equal to the valid lifetime to be sent > in the > > router advertisement. > > That text doesn’t by itself provide any good way to specify a shorter > preferred lifetime so that the prefix is marked deprecated before it > becomes invalid, but at least it assures that what is send for the > preferred and valid meets the basic requires: preferred <= valid in > the RA, and the valid is <= what is specified in the IAPREFIX. > > -Bernie > > *From: *Timothy Winters > *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2017 at 2:32 > PM *To: *Bernie Volz > *Cc: > *JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 >, "dhcwg@ietf.org > " >, > Ralph Droms > > *Subject: *Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - > Respond by May 30th, 2017 > > Hi Bernie, > > We have CE Routers that countdown from when the IA_PD is received, > and others that always transmit the lifetime received in the IA_PD in > RA (Always the same). It's about 50/50 at the moment. When we > were working on testing for 6024/7084 this was a topic that was > discussed but it wasn't clear answer on what to do with the > lifetimes. > > You are correct that when the prefix timeout from the IA_PD it will > stop forwarding and transmit a Destination Unreachable message. > > Regards, > > Tim > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) > wrote: > > I’ve added Tim Winters as perhaps he can shed some light on this in > terms of what is tested at the NH Interoperability Lab for PD / > CPEs? > > Even if a device doesn’t follow this (running down the lifetimes), > what’s likely to happen when the PD expires is that the traffic will > hopefully no longer be forwarded by the router (and with a ICMP > destination unreachable notification) and perhaps RAs will be sent > with 0 lifetimes to attempt to deprecate the prefix (and any assigned > addresses) use as quickly as possible? > > Ralph or Ole might also have a comment with respect to what they > expected a requesting router to do based on the original RFC 3633? I > don’t think this 3315bis document itself caused this potential > confusion to exist? > > - Bernie > > > On 6/19/17, 1:55 PM, "JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉" > wrote: > > At Sat, 17 Jun 2017 02:27:39 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" > > wrote: > >> My reaction is you are wrong – the PIO would, whenever sent, > be sent >> with the preferred and valid lifetime REMAINING on the PD > lease. So, >> sure a PIO sent just after the PD lease started would have > (close) >> to the full values, but the values sent an hour later would be 1 >> hour less than they were. > > Actually I agreed. I guess what we're different is the view on how > obvious it is. I suspect this is not so obvious and there are > actually implementations that can cause the situation where > deprecated/invalidated addresses are used. There may even be an > implementation that naively copies the lifetimes from PD to RA PIO. > > I've monitored RAs advertised in my apartment room. The ISP is > Comcast and the default router is Apple time capsule. The lifetimes > advertised in RA PIO are constant and do not decrease as I monitored > it in multiple consecutive RAs. Of course, it doesn't immediately > mean the time capsule device uses the 'naive' approach. I actually > don't even know if PD is used or the time capsule is the PD client. > And the time capsule might actually have some safety buffer period > and use a much lower lifetimes for PIO than those provided in PD. > Still, I think this can be a potential anecdote to suggest there > might be a problematic implementation. > > So I don't think it at least doesn't harm if we say that lifetimes > of site addresses derived from the delegated prefix MUST NOT exceed > the remaining time of the lifetimes in the last-received > corresponding PD. (I don't think we have to specify exactly how to > implement this restriction). > > -- JINMEI, Tatuya > > > > -- > > Now offering testing for SDN applications and controllers in our SDN > switch test bed. Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR > > > > _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > From nobody Wed Jul 12 13:30:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8973D1317B4 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:30:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gI2u5Z5jhhv9 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9A181317B7 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:30:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10644; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499891422; x=1501101022; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=avJ4dh3Sc7+AYDFq5wKxdwElNdyUYsdVwXvR+LlZiHM=; b=G0HDsSbkC/El9f51DQTZb7EIeLAXOFldmCGM8BYykZNoG9CGOIQcNmbk lSMDUFG8wUPj53pIy4ZprFVvRiWyhjbde2YjSQsuAuQctwN7Zp+mPlaGh xkw3gq44+0LsaxEHCfMPzfNxMsV+6KmqUsfdkyXRL/NW63dd4hSDOIb35 c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C/AgD+hWZZ/4MNJK1eGwEBAQMBAQEJA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBgm9rZIEbsEqFLIIRiUlBFgECAQEBAQEBAWsohUxBHQGBACYBBAEaiUNksAO?= =?us-ascii?q?LIgEBAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEigyiBYZFPBZ8oApQEghWQGYlDjA0BJQExgQp1FUmHF?= =?us-ascii?q?ohCgQ0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,351,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="267399106" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 12 Jul 2017 20:30:21 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6CKULZw027014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:30:21 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:30:20 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:30:20 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqA== Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:30:20 +0000 Message-ID: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4775705423554cc39360724881251abeXCHALN003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:30:25 -0000 --_000_4775705423554cc39360724881251abeXCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can't be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while s= ome of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet an= d it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. Thi= s work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a "requirements = document" to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (= for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?). Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room - we can find a table there, or look for another place. (= If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we'll see what w= e might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek --_000_4775705423554cc39360724881251abeXCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can’t be used to encrypt more data than the s= ize of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goa= ls of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room – we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If t= here is remote participation interest, let us know and we’ll see what= we might be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-     &= nbsp;    Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

--_000_4775705423554cc39360724881251abeXCHALN003ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 13:48:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7F51317C0 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yjVgZRYLueAN for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABBD81317B7 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v6CKmjS5018217; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:45 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.220]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v6CKmZp9017754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:35 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdc::8988:efdc) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:34 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:48:34 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqAAAv6lw Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:48:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a3d7522c763947a2916edfc461bf92afXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:48:47 -0000 --_000_a3d7522c763947a2916edfc461bf92afXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernie, Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, i= f this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an inte= rest in an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would avoid a "double-encryption" when encryption is already provided by the link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can't be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while s= ome of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet an= d it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. Thi= s work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a "requirements = document" to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (= for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?). Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room - we can find a table there, or look for another place. (= If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we'll see what w= e might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek --_000_a3d7522c763947a2916edfc461bf92afXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a “double-= encryption” when encryption is already provided by the

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] <= b>On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can’t be used to encrypt more data than the s= ize of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goa= ls of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room – we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If t= here is remote participation interest, let us know and we’ll see what= we might be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-     &= nbsp;    Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_a3d7522c763947a2916edfc461bf92afXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 14:06:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AD3131788 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yb7T4bWTfPxN for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBCED1317BF for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=22490; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499893573; x=1501103173; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=bZ3pNP7+pnr9ztXjkGq0Wy+6RwjJAQKKjfi2assLVJg=; b=RrI/M7TcPLnkmIdauhiNf1KLMhR5avR58VSjk61uBgrk/ZUQJ7rIXTRS 9nMzUqpFsVYT4omxKGbWwc7/W+6MZMNaOGYCQTi+aTVGAQ3I+KJw06CsT 23sRLYnEftUP+5YHKHnBxH/GMg5C+beB10KU905rqW40LNQk5QAvnyuov k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DMAAD5jWZZ/4ENJK1eGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBgm9rZIEUB44CkXGWA4IRhXYCg1E/GAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRgBAQEBAy1?= =?us-ascii?q?BGwIBCBEEAQEhBwcyFAkIAQEEARIIiUNksBqLIgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAR2DKIFhg02DJIRUTIU+BZc8h2wClASCFZAZiUOMDQEfOIEKdRVJhxZ2AYY?= =?us-ascii?q?bK4EFgQ0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,351,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="258856606" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 12 Jul 2017 21:06:12 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6CL6COO013462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:06:12 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:06:11 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:06:11 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Templin, Fred L" , "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqAAAv6lwAABm4DA= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:06:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e9cbb73ac7164448aa215c5ab3081e18XCHALN003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:06:16 -0000 --_000_e9cbb73ac7164448aa215c5ab3081e18XCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred: Thanks for your interest. Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in term= s of authentication there is: 1. Authenticate the server to the client 2. Authenticate the client to the server 3. Or both There are also various degrees of authentication - for example, TOFU (Trust= on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose on certif= icate distribution / validation). And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is for = AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements w= ould be useful. I'd also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, w= ould not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the requ= irements. - Bernie From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) ; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf= .org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Bernie, Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, i= f this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an inte= rest in an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would avoid a "double-encryption" when encryption is already provided by the link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can't be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while s= ome of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet an= d it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. Thi= s work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a "requirements = document" to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (= for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?). Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room - we can find a table there, or look for another place. (= If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we'll see what w= e might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek --_000_e9cbb73ac7164448aa215c5ab3081e18XCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Fred:

 

Thanks for your intere= st.

 

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.&n= bsp;      Authenticate t= he server to the client

2.&n= bsp;      Authenticate t= he client to the server

3.&n= bsp;      Or both

 

There are also various= degrees of authentication – for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use) t= o trusted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distributi= on / validation).

 

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.

 

I’d also suggest= that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be appr= opriate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.

 

-&nb= sp;         Bernie

 

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@= boeing.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcp= v6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a “double-= encryption” when encryption is already provided by the

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-= ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can’t be used to encrypt more data than the s= ize of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goa= ls of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room – we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If t= here is remote participation interest, let us know and we’ll see what= we might be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-     &= nbsp;    Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_e9cbb73ac7164448aa215c5ab3081e18XCHALN003ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 14:08:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86699129B62 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wGB0_hrXch3J for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0204012426E for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id r30so23307630qtc.0 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=7dgS5lznkCJRWDcGURdpL2b/uMu1cC2F7RglEHQRzhU=; b=a+0YL4ZUC98CkFtGysuEuYFsywSJtV1ys0tPsWDDi1CT9F763jCd+mD6gUpDGoNSp0 MMsN7joGSNhh0GrppBoxIt768eUykRzvwaAb7IpbjuTRiEgjin7lSH4QPCli29UUqSC3 Vzk8X9kW0LZqR6i7g38NhjfEhPsob3ZMtnim0RlrK3IcwG7pk/5NSQqtYqq3t52jJ+sz 44P5RNLj/GObUkN0MscEQWzfq9vqQRFXvKWZiqeH2qNSjYWrjiBL6zAUvfQp+baPXGr9 9zfjtOChBgFBZiC6/Nt+zYt1E91kv5sOnh9ZPmdOjyB1JU5DVHDLvGXrU5E4s3V26hYL yZtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=7dgS5lznkCJRWDcGURdpL2b/uMu1cC2F7RglEHQRzhU=; b=nan0t8iKzFqbJmdWBh8YpBfwVqzWe3fFk5e3QkZRbOtjwpHoBPxwxeHm4s2euFNgKp BwMDOUF8zry3pH5PbCvvz8R6Mt+VG2EHBkuHk9d2VIfXiOuSxVsEFqb8qR+goLOOZRIZ rm2KNXN+2O5oV3dEJuvz5bEcbe8pcnuF853JUEGP+dYphui4IuUu2TGVvQZuYMvDw9Fe KXlQdIIIr0zxQAtf7NgCeYNT+DHlYhUMUpZJQOF6SCyWfkW66mpCPL/XXpOFRoLRQo9w ywWcS/EF0suUM27WeP+PfkInEhCtywEq4M8nKVdTUe8DstgBUlwxn++LcZARk20Q4Hdv T6CA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113UGR7JZGHv2OSvHIQw/tzdJixwzp0EO95PEc0fkPxZHmJIaAwe r7lvjQD2rdVYRH/q+gE= X-Received: by 10.237.46.166 with SMTP id k35mr774622qtd.21.1499893713861; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:18f:801:600:48a8:babc:e4ef:a0cf? ([2601:18f:801:600:48a8:babc:e4ef:a0cf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r33sm2864700qtc.43.2017.07.12.14.08.33 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:08:32 -0400 References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Message-Id: <3EF7A8C1-2BEC-4D4C-9CD9-BB5DDCA3B873@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:08:36 -0000 I've reviewed the discussion of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 during the = (extended) WG last call. Several thorough reviews were posted, and no = negative responses were received. I note Jinmei-san's abstention: = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg17577.html In my opinion, the WG has expressed consensus to forward the document to = the IESG, after the issues raised in the WG last call are addressed. - Ralph > On May 9, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Bernie Volz (volz) = wrote: >=20 > Hello: > =20 > The co-authors believe that all of the issues reported for the last = August WGLC on draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-05 have now been resolved. But, = because of the large number of changes, the DHC WG co-chairs feel = another =E2=80=9CWGLC=E2=80=9D is appropriate. > =20 > Please review this document and provide your comments and whether you = support the document moving forward by May 30th, 2017. The DHC WG = co-chairs will again ask Ralph to evaluate the responses. We are doing a = 3 week WGLC as the document is rather large and important to get right! > =20 > Please see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08. > =20 > If you=E2=80=99d like to see the differences from the 05 version, use = the diff tool at https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff: > =20 > = https://tools.ietf.org//rfcdiff?url1=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-iet= f-dhc-rfc3315bis-08.txt&url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-dhc-rf= c3315bis-05.txt > =20 > The list of issues we recorded and action/assignee details are = athttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3obOwmRQDldw0u_kv85B5Q4LnjnmvUp= 2MmsHDGmW98 (some additional issues are in = https://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/dhcpv6bis/report). > =20 > One very recent change to highlight is = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08#section-18.2.12 = =E2=80=93 this was to address a criticism that DHCPv6 is not responsive = enough for some network configuration changes. > =20 > The co-authors thank those that reviewed this document during the = previous WGLC and hope that those same reviewers (and hopefully more) = will endeavor to do one more thorough review of the document. > =20 > - Tomek & Bernie From nobody Wed Jul 12 14:33:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA891317CE for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: 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IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6IA0KPiBmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzLw0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18gZGhjd2cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IA0KPiBkaGN3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZyBo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RoY3dnDQo+IA0KDQpfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KZGhjd2cgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQpkaGN3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9kaGN3Zw0K From nobody Wed Jul 12 14:36:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4A21319B7 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2IZSSI_E1ENk for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A35E4131946 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v6CLaeeI046707; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:41 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.172]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v6CLaV2g046268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:31 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efac::8988:efac) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:30 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:36:30 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqAAAv6lwAABm4DAAAOIiwA== Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:36:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_cb431acefa5149a4a024538352e02357XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:36:44 -0000 --_000_cb431acefa5149a4a024538352e02357XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernie, My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the same link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X)= . The client knows that it can trust the server because the server's address is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be subverte= d by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. For example, trusted client 'A' could use trusted client 'B's DUID to steal client 'B's service - an "insider attack". So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. Thanks - Fred From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM To: Templin, Fred L ; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@to= ols.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Fred: Thanks for your interest. Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in term= s of authentication there is: 1. Authenticate the server to the client 2. Authenticate the client to the server 3. Or both There are also various degrees of authentication - for example, TOFU (Trust= on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose on certif= icate distribution / validation). And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is for = AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements w= ould be useful. I'd also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, w= ould not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the requ= irements. - Bernie From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) >; draft-ietf-= dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org;= dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Bernie, Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, i= f this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an inte= rest in an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would avoid a "double-encryption" when encryption is already provided by the link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can't be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while s= ome of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet an= d it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. Thi= s work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a "requirements = document" to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (= for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?). Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room - we can find a table there, or look for another place. (= If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we'll see what w= e might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek --_000_cb431acefa5149a4a024538352e02357XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

My scenario is very si= mple. The client and server are connected to the same

link, and the link alr= eady supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X).

 

The client knows that = it can trust the server because the server’s address

is in a list of known = server addresses for the link that cannot be subverted

by an adversary and th= ere is no opportunity for source address spoofing.

 

The server knows that = the client is authorized to connect to the link

(e.g., due to 802.1X) = but the server does not know whether the client

is authorized to use t= he DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages.

For example, trusted c= lient ‘A’ could use trusted client ‘B’s DUID to

steal client ‘B&= #8217;s service – an “insider attack”.<= /p>

 

So, what is needed fro= m seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself

to the server so that = it cannot steal the services of another client. And,

since there may be a L= DRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that t= he LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.c= om]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; draft-ietf-dh= c-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Fred:

 

Thanks for your intere= st.

 

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.&n= bsp;      Authenticate t= he server to the client

2.&n= bsp;      Authenticate t= he client to the server

3.&n= bsp;      Or both

 

There are also various= degrees of authentication – for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use) t= o trusted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distributi= on / validation).

 

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.

 

I’d also suggest= that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be appr= opriate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.

 

-&nb= sp;         Bernie

 

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@ci= sco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-se= dhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a “double-= encryption” when encryption is already provided by the

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-= ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can’t be used to encrypt more data than the s= ize of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goa= ls of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room – we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If t= here is remote participation interest, let us know and we’ll see what= we might be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-     &= nbsp;    Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_cb431acefa5149a4a024538352e02357XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 15:30:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9807612F258 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:30:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dx4EkkIdQ8Kd for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4479E129482 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:30:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=27725; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499898648; x=1501108248; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=oNV0baTXk6PtLjGslGt1UHSTCUzGh9/akrnayABZYcE=; b=D64BQuY+D9G/g9qj9XSvt7/5ehEuTJP1mDaECPP66QXCKicyXAOE7ATz G43C9vk60kHVUhkEZ9P1PKYfWjSjIx6rxLfEymrBZvU2iZGO1gbXHBE1I drizyTzN6JvFr4WPunoZnjQxHqW6s/VFz3GdR5K//DAQfBD8ZxA1ecwbF 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CaAAAXomZZ/5pdJa1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm8+LYF4jgmRcXSVD4IRhXYCg1E/GAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRgBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAwwhQQsQAgEIEQQBASEBBgcyFAkIAQEEDgWJS2SwPYshAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBHYMkBIFhg0wBK4JFNIRUJBgQgw2CMQWXPIdsApQNggyQGYlDjA0?= =?us-ascii?q?BHziBCnUVSRIBhQAcgWd2AYYbK4ISAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,351,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="267435690" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 12 Jul 2017 22:30:46 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6CMUkAP030461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:30:46 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:30:46 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:30:46 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Templin, Fred L" CC: "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqAAAv6lwAABm4DAAAOIiwAACWWHQ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:30:45 +0000 Message-ID: <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0A6AD09CF75A4A648ECBA6A81C1201D6ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:30:51 -0000 --_000_0A6AD09CF75A4A648ECBA6A81C1201D6ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. I think this can be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. Though= one issue with that is we need to figure out how to provide client details= (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays. - Bernie (from iPad) On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: Hi Bernie, My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the same link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X)= . The client knows that it can trust the server because the server's address is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be subverte= d by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. For example, trusted client 'A' could use trusted client 'B's DUID to steal client 'B's service - an "insider attack". So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. Thanks - Fred From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM To: Templin, Fred L >; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Fred: Thanks for your interest. Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in term= s of authentication there is: 1. Authenticate the server to the client 2. Authenticate the client to the server 3. Or both There are also various degrees of authentication - for example, TOFU (Trust= on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose on certif= icate distribution / validation). And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is for = AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements w= ould be useful. I'd also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, w= ould not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the requ= irements. - Bernie From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) >; draft-ietf-= dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org;= dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Bernie, Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, i= f this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an inte= rest in an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would avoid a "double-encryption" when encryption is already provided by the link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can't be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while s= ome of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet an= d it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. Thi= s work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a "requirements = document" to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (= for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?). Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room - we can find a table there, or look for another place. (= If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we'll see what w= e might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek --_000_0A6AD09CF75A4A648ECBA6A81C1201D6ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more.

And,

since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.


I think this can be solved in other ways, su= ch as via the RAAN work. Though one issue with that is we need to figure ou= t how to provide client details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by r= elays.

- Bernie (from iPad)

On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

My scenario is very si= mple. The client and server are connected to the same

link, and the link alr= eady supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X).

 

The client knows that = it can trust the server because the server’s address

is in a list of known = server addresses for the link that cannot be subverted

by an adversary and th= ere is no opportunity for source address spoofing.

 

The server knows that = the client is authorized to connect to the link

(e.g., due to 802.1X) = but the server does not know whether the client

is authorized to use t= he DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages.

For example, trusted c= lient ‘A’ could use trusted client ‘B’s DUID to

steal client ‘B&= #8217;s service – an “insider attack”.<= /p>

 

So, what is needed fro= m seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself

to the server so that = it cannot steal the services of another client. And,

since there may be a L= DRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that t= he LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-se= dhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Fred:

 

Thanks for your intere= st.

 

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.       Authentica= te the server to the client

2.       Authentica= te the client to the server

3.       Or both

 

There are also various= degrees of authentication – for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use) t= o trusted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distributi= on / validation).

 

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.

 

I’d also suggest= that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be appr= opriate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.

 

-Bernie

 

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@ci= sco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-se= dhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a “double-= encryption” when encryption is already provided by the

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-= ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can’t be used to encrypt more data than the s= ize of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goa= ls of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room – we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If t= here is remote participation interest, let us know and we’ll see what= we might be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-     = ;     Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_0A6AD09CF75A4A648ECBA6A81C1201D6ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 15:38:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D86412EC4B for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R_lQRtNK8IQn for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BC0712F258 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v6CMciie048502; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:44 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.219]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v6CMccwE048116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:38 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdb::8988:efdb) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:37 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:38:37 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" CC: "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqAAAv6lwAABm4DAAAOIiwAACWWHQAAAq8fA= Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:38:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> , <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e2b769438a6241e8b1938b044276e190XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:38:48 -0000 --_000_e2b769438a6241e8b1938b044276e190XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernie, See below: Fred From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:31 PM To: Templin, Fred L Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. I think this can be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. Though= one issue with that is we need to figure out how to provide client details= (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays. ? Right, but with authentication-only (i.e., when the DHCPv6 messages ar= e ? in-the-clear) RAAN options are unnecessary - at least for this use cas= e. - Bernie (from iPad) On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: Hi Bernie, My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the same link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X)= . The client knows that it can trust the server because the server's address is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be subverte= d by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. For example, trusted client 'A' could use trusted client 'B's DUID to steal client 'B's service - an "insider attack". So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. Thanks - Fred From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM To: Templin, Fred L >; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Fred: Thanks for your interest. Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in term= s of authentication there is: 1. Authenticate the server to the client 2. Authenticate the client to the server 3. Or both There are also various degrees of authentication - for example, TOFU (Trust= on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose on certif= icate distribution / validation). And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is for = AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements w= ould be useful. I'd also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, w= ould not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the requ= irements. - Bernie From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) >; draft-ietf-= dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org;= dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Bernie, Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, i= f this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an inte= rest in an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would avoid a "double-encryption" when encryption is already provided by the link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can't be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while s= ome of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet an= d it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. Thi= s work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a "requirements = document" to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (= for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?). Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room - we can find a table there, or look for another place. (= If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we'll see what w= e might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek --_000_e2b769438a6241e8b1938b044276e190XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bernie,<= /span>

 

See below:<= /span>

 

Fred=

 

 

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.c= om]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get mo= re.



And,

since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be = available

in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD a= ssignments.

 

I think this can be solved in other ways, such as vi= a the RAAN work. Though one issue with that is we need to figure out how to= provide client details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays.

 

Ø    Right, but wit= h authentication-only (i.e., when the DHCPv6 messages are=

Ø    in-the-clear) = RAAN options are unnecessary – at least for this use case.=


- Bernie (from iPad)


On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Bernie,=

 

My scenario is very si= mple. The client and server are connected to the same

link, and the link alr= eady supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X).

 

The client knows that = it can trust the server because the server’s address

is in a list of known = server addresses for the link that cannot be subverted

by an adversary and th= ere is no opportunity for source address spoofing.

 

The server knows that = the client is authorized to connect to the link

(e.g., due to 802.1X) = but the server does not know whether the client

is authorized to use t= he DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages.

For example, trusted c= lient ‘A’ could use trusted client ‘B’s DUID to

steal client ‘B&= #8217;s service – an “insider attack”.<= /p>

 

So, what is needed fro= m seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself

to the server so that = it cannot steal the services of another client. And,

since there may be a L= DRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that t= he LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-se= dhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Fred:

 

Thanks for your intere= st.

 

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.     &= nbsp; Authenticate the serv= er to the client

2.     &= nbsp; Authenticate the clie= nt to the server

3.     &= nbsp; Or both

 

There are also various= degrees of authentication – for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use) t= o trusted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distributi= on / validation).

 

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.=

 

I’d also suggest= that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be appr= opriate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.=

 

-     &= nbsp;    Bernie

 

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@ci= sco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-se= dhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Bernie,=

 

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a “double-= encryption” when encryption is already provided by the

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-= ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can’t be used to encrypt more data than the s= ize of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a “requirements document” to clearly detail what the goa= ls of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room – we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If t= here is remote participation interest, let us know and we’ll see what= we might be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-     &= nbsp;    Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_e2b769438a6241e8b1938b044276e190XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 17:26:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186C0131790 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t51vB0PdbM8L for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x230.google.com (mail-pg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C10312EC48 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x230.google.com with SMTP id k14so20777294pgr.0 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:26:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=R+S0pgtWz8lbYMM7aD1ys2WfUzw52rUIVHzZ/DOeucY=; b=O72v7NUBAjfDHiDDMbP0xuRq7iAda0t7ZdU/myEB+ENhVQhoUTk/0uU2z/fi3/Wdce fiWKv28mCtE4ZhqfmnJbXVR5SlQ4/1R9eDPLgQRNeNE89zMWmF6So4GSKWAeItz/eUha e5glDPjKIFcWoQ4AF2nPpAvc4vO7ahBizGw3YUN6nquzuXf44poncAyXHFOzaYJ+GZJS wv9rB4udgfpkUp0IS2AlA5UOwvP2xip0u3QiVwL+IDAKpxHY/D1yibqieUgxrVRHM3cQ Q8IAMdA8NSjsPZHCSgfsWUZcmtnJcbR8GbAmx0CsMZLtZaAGkPikyqE30OS0dHMiC7Km j/mQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=R+S0pgtWz8lbYMM7aD1ys2WfUzw52rUIVHzZ/DOeucY=; b=ZVb9zjhEJ8OhvDbm+UVXdXsxlsxs/KrGS0PDjXQQmzF76zw7Gd/3aVZmnZkfZhrkS2 76gCAvJDpMOr1BBPxapUF1A+b1dS/9X/K/BQFziJRw4gro7cHgBO7M/U+Br28uCDdy+x XRFMphULdQzB43DjwEI9Ekyciroze0T3nTMRtjeP0mbvzkWswJcQpiZi4jFfMFe0JXeP g1ottxwSCvL2ouJ9lHrxIuvhyDTDWPSZMusPVyqpGgsUNAcki9QY8OtwX1534Tp8Gw9i ER3Oyw2hdUf0dtz/GfSvpKYgTIFHNNHd2FdsTUcT9E8RjgXNX6iWYzq5eWsbioJm2aId POSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113TNaSoA+6muJhDS4luNf24y/bLpmIvqCU/d7rwkG0ejN3iTaQj JiIvgKWmXCDZ3Ze+WJLDh0Zc47Aoe0u7 X-Received: by 10.99.51.142 with SMTP id z136mr6264442pgz.275.1499905561755; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:26:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.170.2 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:25:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:25:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0b3f70349688055427faac" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 00:26:06 -0000 --94eb2c0b3f70349688055427faac Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You mean for leasequery? We should probably scope that out. It's not clear to me that there's an overlap in the use cases, though. On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) wrote: > Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more. > > And, > > since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available > > in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. > > > I think this can be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. > Though one issue with that is we need to figure out how to provide client > details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays. > > - Bernie (from iPad) > > On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: > > Hi Bernie, > > > > My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the sa= me > > link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE > 802.1X). > > > > The client knows that it can trust the server because the server=E2=80=99= s address > > is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be > subverted > > by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. > > > > The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link > > (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client > > is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. > > For example, trusted client =E2=80=98A=E2=80=99 could use trusted client = =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99s DUID to > > steal client =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99s service =E2=80=93 an =E2=80=9Cinsider a= ttack=E2=80=9D. > > > > So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself > > to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And= , > > since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available > > in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM > *To:* Templin, Fred L ; > draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi Fred: > > > > Thanks for your interest. > > > > Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in > terms of authentication there is: > > 1. Authenticate the server to the client > > 2. Authenticate the client to the server > > 3. Or both > > > > There are also various degrees of authentication =E2=80=93 for example, T= OFU > (Trust on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose o= n > certificate distribution / validation). > > > > And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is fo= r > AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements > would be useful. > > > > I=E2=80=99d also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as= 802.1X, > would not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the > requirements. > > > > - Bernie > > > > *From:* Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com > ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM > *To:* Bernie Volz (volz) ; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools. > ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi Bernie, > > > > Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, > if > > this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an > interest in > > an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would > > avoid a =E2=80=9Cdouble-encryption=E2=80=9D when encryption is already pr= ovided by the > > link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there a= re > > already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > > > *From:* dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org ] *O= n > Behalf Of *Bernie Volz (volz) > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM > *To:* draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi: > > > > There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) > about the sedhcpv6 draft. > > > > Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there ar= e > some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the k= ey > can=E2=80=99t be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And= , while > some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet > and it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. > This work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. > > > > The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work > should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a > =E2=80=9Crequirements document=E2=80=9D to clearly detail what the goals = of a securing > DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encrypti= on > appropriate?). > > > > Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group > meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 > afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you > have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) = in > Chez Louis (Hackathon) room =E2=80=93 we can find a table there, or look = for > another place. (If there is remote participation interest, let us know an= d > we=E2=80=99ll see what we might be able to accommodate.) > > > > We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail > there, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we g= et > the slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before th= e > WG session. > > > > - Bernie and Tomek > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > --94eb2c0b3f70349688055427faac Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You mean for leasequery? =C2=A0 We should probably scope t= hat out. =C2=A0 It's not clear to me that there's an overlap in the= use cases, though.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> wrote:
Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more.

And,=

sinc= e there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-t= he-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.


I think this can= be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. Though one issue with = that is we need to figure out how to provide client details (i.e., client-i= d) that might be needed by relays.

- Bernie (from iPad)

Hi Bernie,

=C2=A0

My scenario is very si= mple. The client and server are connected to the same<= /p>

link, and the link alr= eady supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X).=

=C2=A0

The client knows that = it can trust the server because the server=E2=80=99s address<= /span>

is in a list of known = server addresses for the link that cannot be subverted=

by an adversary and th= ere is no opportunity for source address spoofing.

=C2=A0

The server knows that = the client is authorized to connect to the link

(e.g., due to 802.1X) = but the server does not know whether the client

is authorized to use t= he DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages.

For example, trusted c= lient =E2=80=98A=E2=80=99 could use trusted client =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99s DUI= D to

steal client =E2=80=98= B=E2=80=99s service =E2=80=93 an =E2=80=9Cinsider attack=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

So, what is needed fro= m seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself

to the server so that = it cannot steal the services of another client. And,

since there may be a L= DRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that t= he LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

Hi Fred:=

=C2=A0

Thanks for your intere= st.

=C2=A0

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Authenticate the server = to the client

2.=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Authenticate the client = to the server

3.=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Or both

=C2=A0

There are also various= degrees of authentication =E2=80=93 for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use)= to trusted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distribu= tion / validation).

=C2=A0

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.=

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d also sugge= st that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be ap= propriate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bernie

=C2=A0

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.= com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

Hi Bernie,

=C2=A0

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if=

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in<= /span>

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a =E2=80=9Cdoubl= e-encryption=E2=80=9D when encryption is already provided by the<= /u>

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are<= /p>

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

Hi:

=C2=A0

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

=C2=A0

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can=E2=80=99t be used to encrypt more data than the= size of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

=C2=A0

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a =E2=80=9Crequirements document=E2=80=9D to clearly detail what the= goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).<= /p>

=C2=A0

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room =E2=80=93 we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If= there is remote participation interest, let us know and we=E2=80=99ll see = what we might be able to accommodate.)

=C2=A0

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bernie and Tomek

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg


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aHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kaGN3ZyIgdGFyZ2V0 PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGhjd2c8L2E+ PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3Jt YWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRt bD4NCg== --_000_88de415b32e4483bb73bf5d148956ef6XCHALN003ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 18:00:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840D5131755 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 18:00:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BHlW-HFOeT0J for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 18:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22f.google.com (mail-pf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E9931200FC for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 18:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id q85so20920946pfq.1 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 18:00:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xoL8pou2vXJPw+fLhpyDsdiHLkIqRptXn+z6IJmv/jM=; b=IV/UQqIHF3cn7OElqTc6wjz003gJ9SEk5/rNLmgHcdLbiCCoSXiwtqG2si9dpn+42R 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10.99.167.79 with SMTP id w15mr6534290pgo.22.1499907629074; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 18:00:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.170.2 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:59:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <88de415b32e4483bb73bf5d148956ef6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> <88de415b32e4483bb73bf5d148956ef6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:59:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1bdaa46d5bd60554287597" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 01:00:32 -0000 --94eb2c1bdaa46d5bd60554287597 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The relay-reply should contain the client link-layer address. On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) wrote: > I mean for something to identify who made the request for the address or > delegated prefix. Otherwise, the relay may not have much other than the > link layer address (if it extracts it from the original client message, > which would kind of nasty since it requires matching up the reply with th= e > request). It could always encode something in the interface-identifier or > some other option. > > > > And, yes, so it might be able to match up information obtained from other > sources, such as Leasequery. > > > > - Bernie > > > > *From:* Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 PM > *To:* Bernie Volz (volz) > *Cc:* Templin, Fred L ; dhcwg@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > You mean for leasequery? We should probably scope that out. It's not > clear to me that there's an overlap in the use cases, though. > > > > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) > wrote: > > Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more. > > > > And, > > since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available > > in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. > > > > I think this can be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. > Though one issue with that is we need to figure out how to provide client > details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays. > > > - Bernie (from iPad) > > > On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: > > Hi Bernie, > > > > My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the sa= me > > link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE > 802.1X). > > > > The client knows that it can trust the server because the server=E2=80=99= s address > > is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be > subverted > > by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. > > > > The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link > > (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client > > is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. > > For example, trusted client =E2=80=98A=E2=80=99 could use trusted client = =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99s DUID to > > steal client =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99s service =E2=80=93 an =E2=80=9Cinsider a= ttack=E2=80=9D. > > > > So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself > > to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And= , > > since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available > > in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM > *To:* Templin, Fred L ; > draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi Fred: > > > > Thanks for your interest. > > > > Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in > terms of authentication there is: > > 1. Authenticate the server to the client > > 2. Authenticate the client to the server > > 3. Or both > > > > There are also various degrees of authentication =E2=80=93 for example, T= OFU > (Trust on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose o= n > certificate distribution / validation). > > > > And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is fo= r > AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements > would be useful. > > > > I=E2=80=99d also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as= 802.1X, > would not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the > requirements. > > > > - Bernie > > > > *From:* Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com > ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM > *To:* Bernie Volz (volz) ; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools. > ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi Bernie, > > > > Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, > if > > this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an > interest in > > an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would > > avoid a =E2=80=9Cdouble-encryption=E2=80=9D when encryption is already pr= ovided by the > > link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there a= re > > already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > > > *From:* dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org ] *O= n > Behalf Of *Bernie Volz (volz) > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM > *To:* draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... > > > > Hi: > > > > There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) > about the sedhcpv6 draft. > > > > Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there ar= e > some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the k= ey > can=E2=80=99t be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And= , while > some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet > and it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. > This work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. > > > > The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work > should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a > =E2=80=9Crequirements document=E2=80=9D to clearly detail what the goals = of a securing > DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encrypti= on > appropriate?). > > > > Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group > meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 > afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you > have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) = in > Chez Louis (Hackathon) room =E2=80=93 we can find a table there, or look = for > another place. (If there is remote participation interest, let us know an= d > we=E2=80=99ll see what we might be able to accommodate.) > > > > We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail > there, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we g= et > the slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before th= e > WG session. > > > > - Bernie and Tomek > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > > --94eb2c1bdaa46d5bd60554287597 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The relay-reply should contain the client link-layer addre= ss.

On Wed, = Jul 12, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> = wrote:

I mean for something to identify who = made the request for the address or delegated prefix. Otherwise, the relay = may not have much other than the link layer address (if it extracts it from the original client message, which would kind of n= asty since it requires matching up the reply with the request). It could al= ways encode something in the interface-identifier or some other option.<= /u>

=C2=A0

And, yes, so it might be able to matc= h up information obtained from other sources, such as Leasequery.=

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bernie

=C2=A0

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; dhcwg@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dhc-s= edhcpv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

You mean for leasequery? =C2=A0 We should probably s= cope that out. =C2=A0 It's not clear to me that there's an overlap = in the use cases, though.

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) = <volz@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully ge= t more.



And,

since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 param= eters must be available

in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any= IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

=C2=A0

I think this can be solved in other ways, such as vi= a the RAAN work. Though one issue with that is we need to figure out how to= provide client details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays.


- Bernie (from iPad)


On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrot= e:

Hi Bernie,

=C2=A0

My scenario is very si= mple. The client and server are connected to the same<= /p>

link, and the link alr= eady supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X).=

=C2=A0

The client knows that = it can trust the server because the server=E2=80=99s address<= u>

is in a list of known = server addresses for the link that cannot be subverted=

by an adversary and th= ere is no opportunity for source address spoofing.

=C2=A0

The server knows that = the client is authorized to connect to the link

(e.g., due to 802.1X) = but the server does not know whether the client

is authorized to use t= he DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages.

For example, trusted c= lient =E2=80=98A=E2=80=99 could use trusted client =E2=80=98B=E2=80=99s DUI= D to

steal client =E2=80=98= B=E2=80=99s service =E2=80=93 an =E2=80=9Cinsider attack=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

So, what is needed fro= m seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself

to the server so that = it cannot steal the services of another client. And,

since there may be a L= DRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that t= he LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

Hi Fred:=

=C2=A0

Thanks for your intere= st.

=C2=A0

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Authenticate the server to the client<= /span>

2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Authenticate the client to the server<= /span>

3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Or both

=C2=A0

There are also various= degrees of authentication =E2=80=93 for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use)= to trusted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distribution / validation).

=C2=A0

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99d also sugge= st that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be ap= propriate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bernie

=C2=A0

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.= com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

Hi Bernie,

=C2=A0

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if=

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in<= u>

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a =E2=80=9Cdoubl= e-encryption=E2=80=9D when encryption is already provided by the<= /u>

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are<= /p>

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

=C2=A0

Hi:

=C2=A0

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

=C2=A0

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can=E2=80=99t be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have com= municated recently, others have been quiet and it is not clear what the lev= el of interest for each is in continuing. This work has sadly had a long ro= ad with several turns already.

=C2=A0

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a =E2=80=9Crequirements document=E2=80=9D to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly= recent push to add encryption appropriate?).

=C2=A0

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose = to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackathon) room =E2=80=93 = we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If there is remote p= articipation interest, let us know and we=E2=80=99ll see what we might be able to accommodate.)

=C2=A0

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG session.

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Bernie and Tomek

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

=C2=A0


--94eb2c1bdaa46d5bd60554287597-- From nobody Wed Jul 12 19:04:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A058C131803 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 19:04:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aK-MwYA8E3W7 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 19:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5B481316EB for ; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 19:04:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=27127; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499911442; x=1501121042; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=BxFQJweF4xDJ697f+9j5NUdjvsSWQL6kA79nr7nea7A=; b=GLOeh5zCE0KQN78apsMIi7U4h3ksGPbhjjPk5hy6/Iwral2xh0sn1HkR rr0ympXWuxGkCqHo6EeKi0cPtyy+LofA59i3xWT21tK9z9q6bXsaALJkM wYtWkN3NEEvu8ug4xUBdYvvBGvjltwGa9lDFRQJeBZVvqYuJc6PU0JW+2 c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CaAACa1GZZ/5xdJa1TChkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJva2SBFI4JkXJ0lQ+CESEBCoVKAoNRPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?YAQEBAQMBAQpiCxACAQgOAwQBAR4DBwcnCxQJCAIEDgWJS2QQsAeLIgEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgyQEgWGDTAErgkU0hEISHR8QAoMLgjEFlzyHbAK?= =?us-ascii?q?UDYIMkBmJQ4wNAR84gQp1FUkSAYRHORyBZ3YBhhsrghIBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,352,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="258933483" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Jul 2017 02:04:01 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (xch-aln-001.cisco.com [173.36.7.11]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6D24149000484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 Jul 2017 02:04:01 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:04:00 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 21:04:00 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Ted Lemon CC: "Templin, Fred L" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Thread-Index: AdL7TPjzgLDuRsMjTzK32MYQ2IpqqAAAv6lwAABm4DAAAOIiwAACWWHQAA56rIAAClu3IP//tsGA//++IO4= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 02:04:00 +0000 Message-ID: <9AA1C8F3-E16F-4B23-B328-7EE7C62EC5B8@cisco.com> References: <4775705423554cc39360724881251abe@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <0A6AD09C-F75A-4A64-8ECB-A6A81C1201D6@cisco.com> <88de415b32e4483bb73bf5d148956ef6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9AA1C8F3E16F4B23B3287EE7C62EC5B8ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 02:04:05 -0000 --_000_9AA1C8F3E16F4B23B3287EE7C62EC5B8ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, you are correct that if relay includes link-layer option and specifies= ERO option for it to be returned, it would be there in Relay-Reply. But th= ere may be reasons for relay to "need" Client-ID. - Bernie (from iPad) On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Ted Lemon > wrote: The relay-reply should contain the client link-layer address. On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) > wrote: I mean for something to identify who made the request for the address or de= legated prefix. Otherwise, the relay may not have much other than the link = layer address (if it extracts it from the original client message, which wo= uld kind of nasty since it requires matching up the reply with the request)= . It could always encode something in the interface-identifier or some othe= r option. And, yes, so it might be able to match up information obtained from other s= ources, such as Leasequery. - Bernie From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) > Cc: Templin, Fred L >; dhcwg@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... You mean for leasequery? We should probably scope that out. It's not cl= ear to me that there's an overlap in the use cases, though. On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) > wrote: Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get more. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. I think this can be solved in other ways, such as via the RAAN work. Though= one issue with that is we need to figure out how to provide client details= (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays. - Bernie (from iPad) On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: Hi Bernie, My scenario is very simple. The client and server are connected to the same link, and the link already supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X)= . The client knows that it can trust the server because the server=92s addres= s is in a list of known server addresses for the link that cannot be subverte= d by an adversary and there is no opportunity for source address spoofing. The server knows that the client is authorized to connect to the link (e.g., due to 802.1X) but the server does not know whether the client is authorized to use the DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages. For example, trusted client =91A=92 could use trusted client =91B=92s DUID = to steal client =91B=92s service =96 an =93insider attack=94. So, what is needed from seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself to the server so that it cannot steal the services of another client. And, since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments. Thanks - Fred From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM To: Templin, Fred L >; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Fred: Thanks for your interest. Could you clarify what you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in term= s of authentication there is: 1. Authenticate the server to the client 2. Authenticate the client to the server 3. Or both There are also various degrees of authentication =96 for example, TOFU (Tru= st on First Use) to trusted third party (and what that might impose on cert= ificate distribution / validation). And, if you have a specific use model in mind (for example, if this is for = AERO), having a brief summary of this and the authentication requirements w= ould be useful. I=92d also suggest that understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X,= would not be appropriate could provide added value in understanding the re= quirements. - Bernie From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) >; draft-ietf-= dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org;= dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi Bernie, Unfortunately, my plane does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, i= f this work is going back to first principles I would like to express an inte= rest in an authentication-only mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would avoid a =93double-encryption=94 when encryption is already provided by the link layer between the client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are already other securing mechanisms in place between relays and servers. Thanks - Fred From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ... Hi: There has been some discussion (most recently off the dhcwg mailing list) a= bout the sedhcpv6 draft. Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a while back, there are = some issues with the current draft (including the encryption issue; the key= can=92t be used to encrypt more data than the size of the key). And, while= some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet = and it is not clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. T= his work has sadly had a long road with several turns already. The discussion raised the question as to what the goals of this work should= be. Some feel that we need to step back and first develop a =93requirement= s document=94 to clearly detail what the goals of a securing DHCPv6 should = be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?)= . Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having an interested group me= et before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on Wednesday, 7/19 afternoon= ) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strategy. If you have intere= st, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis= (Hackathon) room =96 we can find a table there, or look for another place.= (If there is remote participation interest, let us know and we=92ll see wh= at we might be able to accommodate.) We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to discuss in detail ther= e, but it could be helpful to have one or more proposals and, if we get the= slides out quickly, give people some time to think about it before the WG = session. - Bernie and Tomek _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg --_000_9AA1C8F3E16F4B23B3287EE7C62EC5B8ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, you are correct that if relay includes link-layer option and spec= ifies ERO option for it to be returned, it would be there in Relay-Reply. B= ut there may be reasons for relay to "need" Client-ID.

- Bernie (from iPad)

On Jul 12, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:

The relay-reply should contain the client link-layer addre= ss.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Bernie Volz (vo= lz) <volz@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

I mean for something to identify who = made the request for the address or delegated prefix. Otherwise, the relay = may not have much other than the link layer address (if it extracts it from the original client message, which would kind of n= asty since it requires matching up the reply with the request). It could al= ways encode something in the interface-identifier or some other option.<= /u>

 

And, yes, so it might be able to matc= h up information obtained from other sources, such as Leasequery.=

 

-  &nb= sp;       Bernie

 

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Cc: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; dhcwg@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

You mean for leasequery?   We should probably s= cope that out.   It's not clear to me that there's an overlap in the u= se cases, though.

 

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) = <volz@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

Ok, thanks for your use case. We'll hopefully get mo= re.



And,

since there may be a LDRA, the DHCPv6 param= eters must be available

in-the-clear so that the LDRA can snoop any= IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

 

I think this can be solved in other ways, such as vi= a the RAAN work. Though one issue with that is we need to figure out how to= provide client details (i.e., client-id) that might be needed by relays.


- Bernie (from iPad)


On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:36 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrot= e:

Hi Bernie,

 

My scenario is very si= mple. The client and server are connected to the same<= /p>

link, and the link alr= eady supports link-layer security (e.g., IEEE 802.1X).=

 

The client knows that = it can trust the server because the server=92s address=

is in a list of known = server addresses for the link that cannot be subverted=

by an adversary and th= ere is no opportunity for source address spoofing.

 

The server knows that = the client is authorized to connect to the link

(e.g., due to 802.1X) = but the server does not know whether the client

is authorized to use t= he DUID it is claiming in its DHCPv6 messages.

For example, trusted c= lient =91A=92 could use trusted client =91B=92s DUID to

steal client =91B=92s = service =96 an =93insider attack=94.

 

So, what is needed fro= m seDHCPv6 is for the client to authenticate itself

to the server so that = it cannot steal the services of another client. And,

since there may be a L= DRA, the DHCPv6 parameters must be available

in-the-clear so that t= he LDRA can snoop any IA_NA/IA_PD assignments.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:06 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Fred:=

 

Thanks for your intere= st.

 

Could you clarify what= you mean by authentication-only? As I see if in terms of authentication th= ere is:

1.       Authenticate the server to the client<= /span>

2.       Authenticate the client to the server<= /span>

3.       Or both

 

There are also various= degrees of authentication =96 for example, TOFU (Trust on First Use) to tr= usted third party (and what that might impose on certificate distribution /= validation).

 

And, if you have a spe= cific use model in mind (for example, if this is for AERO), having a brief = summary of this and the authentication requirements would be useful.=

 

I=92d also suggest tha= t understanding why other techniques, such as 802.1X, would not be appropri= ate could provide added value in understanding the requirements.<= /u>

 

-          Bernie

 

From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.= com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi Bernie,

 

Unfortunately, my plan= e does not arrive until ~16:00 CEST on Sunday. But, if=

this work is going bac= k to first principles I would like to express an interest in<= u>

an authentication-only= mode of operation (i.e., no encryption). It would

avoid a =93double-encr= yption=94 when encryption is already provided by the

link layer between the= client and server (or first-hop relay) and there are<= /p>

already other securing= mechanisms in place between relays and servers.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

 

From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:30 PM
To: draft-ietf-dhc-sedhcpv6@tools.ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: [dhcwg] seDHCPv6 update and next steps ...

 

Hi:

 

There has been some discussion (most recently off th= e dhcwg mailing list) about the sedhcpv6 draft.

 

Previously, as discussed on the dhcwg mailing list a= while back, there are some issues with the current draft (including the en= cryption issue; the key can=92t be used to encrypt more data than the size = of the key). And, while some of the co-authors have communicated recently, others have been quiet and it is no= t clear what the level of interest for each is in continuing. This work has= sadly had a long road with several turns already.

 

The discussion raised the question as to what the go= als of this work should be. Some feel that we need to step back and first d= evelop a =93requirements document=94 to clearly detail what the goals of a = securing DHCPv6 should be (for example, was the fairly recent push to add encryption appropriate?).<= /p>

 

Thus, Tomek and I feel that it would be worth having= an interested group meet before the IETF-99 DHC WG session (which is on We= dnesday, 7/19 afternoon) to discuss this so that we could formulate a strat= egy. If you have interest, let us know. We propose to meet on Sunday at 14:00 (CEST) in Chez Louis (Hackatho= n) room =96 we can find a table there, or look for another place. (If there= is remote participation interest, let us know and we=92ll see what we migh= t be able to accommodate.)

 

We may also have extra time in the DHC WG session to= discuss in detail there, but it could be helpful to have one or more propo= sals and, if we get the slides out quickly, give people some time to think = about it before the WG session.

 

-       &nbs= p;  Bernie and Tomek

 

 

 

 

 


_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

 


--_000_9AA1C8F3E16F4B23B3287EE7C62EC5B8ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Jul 13 09:00:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820F7126C2F for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XvYtbtj88rsu for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F78D124BE8 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6DG0ekn129091; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:00:40 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 71CF4205832; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:00:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64220205563; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:00:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.92] ([132.166.84.92]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6DG0dem010721; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:00:39 +0200 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:00:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:00:47 -0000 Bernie, Le 12/07/2017 à 23:33, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > Hi: > >> What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the IPv6 >> header? > > ND uses hop limit of 255 so the destination can check that it is 255 > on receipt (whereas 1 could have been anything and forwarded many > times). > > But I'm not sure if that is a the best practice when you don't want > the packet forwarded. I would think that if the destination is a > link-local multicast, it really doesn't matter as nothing should > forward the packet (and if something is misconfigured to forward the > packet, you're probably in deeper trouble than just with DHCPv6). > > RFC 4861 has: > > 11.2. Securing Neighbor Discovery Messages > > The protocol reduces the exposure to the above threats in the absence > of authentication by ignoring ND packets received from off-link > senders. The Hop Limit field of all received packets is verified to > contain 255, the maximum legal value. Because routers decrement the > Hop Limit on all packets they forward, received packets containing a > Hop Limit of 255 must have originated from a neighbor. > > I don't know off hand if there's any place this is documented (what > to use for hop limit with link-local). I think your explanation makes sense about ND. But, about DHCP, I need to know whether a DHCP Solicit with HopLimit 1 is valid or not. As I said earlier, some DHCP clients set it at 255 whereas others at 1. In some setting, the DHCP Solicit is encapsulated in IPv4. Some of the decapsulation RFCs say that the HopLimit is decremented. In that setting, it is not clear whether decrementing the hop limit happens, or not. But I want to make sure the client which sets HopLimit at 1 (odhcp6c) is the right way to do. I think a good place to clarify this is in the DHCP spec. The spec could say that the HopLimit has some preferred value. >> Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix Delegation >> Solicit, or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the intention is to >> only request the Prefix, because the address comes from RA). > > Not sure what an "empty" IA_NA is. Whether you include an IA_NA or > not with IA_PD is the client's choice. If it what's an address (such > as for management) on the upstream link, than it should include an > IA_NA. This is covered in the text in 6.3 (IA_PD only) vs 6.4 (IA_PD > and IA_NA, typically). Noted. >> Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation Solicit? >> (the intention is to get the DNS server from RA, but some client >> puts an empty ORO there). > > An empty ORO is fine (it should not cause problems, but is obviously > useless). Though if they are following the rfc3315bis and doing what > they should, there would not be an empty ORO. Noted. >> Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix >> Delegation? > > See 13.1 of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 ... the source address here > should be link-local. Well, that contradicts some trial. I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src of a DHCPv6 Solicit. Other DHCP clients have this optional between LLA or GUA. The operator I work with wants it to be a GUA. As such, I dont know what is the way forward: should the spec get updated? shoudl the operator change? should the Cisco implementation change? Alex From nobody Thu Jul 13 10:38:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E281300CF for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:38:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j44l8brSd_Bf for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:38:24 -0700 (PDT) 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12:38:22 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS9arXA8HVoh8yrE6qal+jjpOQE6JQvX5QgAGNVYD//8L84A== Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:38:22 +0000 Message-ID: <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.131.32.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:38:26 -0000 UmVnYXJkaW5nIHRoZSBob3AgbGltaXQsIEkgZG9u4oCZdCBoYXZlIGEgcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb247 IEknZCBsaWtlbHkgbGVhdmUgaXQgYmUgd2hhdCB0aGUgT1MgZGVmYXVsdHMgaXQgdG8gaWYgSSB3 ZXJlIHdyaXRpbmcgYSBjbGllbnQuIEknbSBub3Qgc3VyZSBJJ2QgcHV0IHRoaXMgaW4gdGhlIDMz MTViaXMgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiwgYnV0IHRoZSBXRyBjYW4gZGViYXRlIHRoYXQgaXNzdWUuDQoN Ck5vdGUgYWxzbyB0aGF0IHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgZG9lcyBub3QgaGF2ZSBhbiBlYXN5IHdheSB0byBn ZXQgdGhlIGhvcCBjb3VudCAod2VsbCwgcGVyaGFwcyB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHdheSBidXQgdGhlIHNl cnZlciBJIHdvcmsgb24gZG9lc24ndCBjYXJlIHdoYXQgaXQgaXMpIGFuZCB0aGVyZWZvcmUgSSBk b3VidCBhbnkgb2YgdGhlbSBjaGVjay4NCg0KDQpSZWdhcmRpbmcgTGluayBMb2NhbCB2cyBHTEEg aW4gU29saWNpdCwgSSB0aGluayBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGhlIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gd291bGQgYmUg 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<3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> <6f7fc559-d6c7-9479-2086-c68dac2e0d64@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6f7fc559-d6c7-9479-2086-c68dac2e0d64@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.131.32.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:08:27 -0000 SGk6DQoNClRoZSB0ZXh0IGlzIG5vdyAoaW4gMTguMi4xMC4xIGFuZCBzaW1pbGFyIGluIDYuMyk6 DQoNCiAgICAgIElmIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgdXNlcyBhIGRlbGVnYXRlZCBwcmVmaXggdG8gY29uZmln 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by 10.55.150.134 with SMTP id y128mr6632447qkd.29.1499969608585; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com Received: by 10.237.60.44 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:13:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5573951f86ce44e59d78e2a7214c3546@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> <6f7fc559-d6c7-9479-2086-c68dac2e0d64@gmail.com> <5573951f86ce44e59d78e2a7214c3546@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:13:27 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: rEX46pAG9nlcsegHiwCUpX2CV0M Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , Timothy Winters , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:13:31 -0000 At Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:08:20 +0000, "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > The text is now (in 18.2.10.1 and similar in 6.3): > > If the client uses a delegated prefix to configure addresses on > interfaces on itself or other nodes behind it, the preferred and > valid lifetimes of those addresses MUST be no larger than the > remaining preferred and valid lifetimes, respectively, for the > delegated prefix at any time. In particular, if the delegated > prefix or a prefix derived from it is advertised for stateless > address autoconfiguration [RFC4862], the advertised valid and > preferred lifetimes MUST NOT exceed the corresponding remaining > lifetimes of the delegated prefix. > > So, hopefully your comments are resolved? (Please also look at the paragraphs before this, as that details some of the restrictions - i.e., it is NOT "the ff02 link on which it issued a Solicit".) > > Please review the -09 draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09) and let us know if this does not resolve your concerns. Looks good to me. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Thu Jul 13 11:51:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C853124234 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QJJbMwKP0f7e for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com (mail-pg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3093112F27C for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id u62so33734557pgb.3 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xhEYy6di4TYPFqbKy7AoAXELKKboqZ88ntnlCZW3XS4=; b=fWXkOdOq6DE/zr6ktbZv15Yq8ipGctDY43Wmpr/fZ9Tny1nwWS52NlEuNaF5rm7NUC S3jlnnuC3ju444xaaxkY34jB0n2hR3y9MeEl2jgnmWNvhn8uoEvmceZldhdHlTkutOOB LIwof2pNpqvucZDqglxWpheq09Uiar2cobNBlpYwsa6OkHrDUzIr8+xpz21zhntefHsL RwtdH2DQod2lSFXppU0y+uFjAYTQtsoZXvNfx3wp++CWzQly+8vNzJVz7zhcRBt2Y2PQ jo/XGwgbBlCkVEF/fzxuzHHkFJXkQ0vBu7Eg6GNf+MzOov/8iLxC0pUwG6nGS4c8U1Bi H4Vw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xhEYy6di4TYPFqbKy7AoAXELKKboqZ88ntnlCZW3XS4=; b=Z3XFyJCT0I1Bx9BtqNlS7HxcTVBl41j2fRDe8yNySMbT9XvB5MFIMgEiAXZW0mFzAW W0F7gnd9CfllW7C77DqdC1pdlca5dpJRdx9a1y/ARrXBp5nyf0l2uy0KqGTCNidw2ZoP EvkVHcAVcfaF+wDp9yxcW8u++uCcOxhRgDcjE24+TKZ1LVM5MP8FEDjwwekyj6jVulKH 15rh3nW2zz73GlWoHYThhuUASQ2iPEGzkGA3xotPweFK8Q5KsR3TR9TSJxSvff4CZU1L 3dVddioZuGjGAhEWVT7975CcxSPdql+7ebSlBcxwiAA8KZYp/6P5ihsqDffPYOjhglHN XbVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112COvjlVJDTMFMViXQ9j0Ejsu6fKL1ac01q6iJGb63/K6jSXtML EqSPdKoG6IZBvsnBP4nhvOUPOss9So0A X-Received: by 10.98.42.4 with SMTP id q4mr1040565pfq.143.1499971907776; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:51:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:51:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145cd5ebc8ec80554376cf5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:51:52 -0000 --001a1145cd5ebc8ec80554376cf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DHCP relay is an app layer encapsulation. The hop count isn't even presented to the app layer. It would be bizarre to do anything special with it. I don't even know how you would write coffee that would accidentally get this wrong. So it shouldn't matter what hop count the client uses. Hop count is only relevant at the routing layer. On Jul 13, 2017 12:00, "Alexandre Petrescu" wrote: > Bernie, > > Le 12/07/2017 =C3=A0 23:33, Bernie Volz (volz) a =C3=A9crit : > >> Hi: >> >> What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the IPv6 header? >>> >> >> ND uses hop limit of 255 so the destination can check that it is 255 on >> receipt (whereas 1 could have been anything and forwarded many times). >> >> But I'm not sure if that is a the best practice when you don't want the >> packet forwarded. I would think that if the destination is a link-local >> multicast, it really doesn't matter as nothing should forward the packet >> (and if something is misconfigured to forward the packet, you're probabl= y >> in deeper trouble than just with DHCPv6). >> >> RFC 4861 has: >> >> 11.2. Securing Neighbor Discovery Messages >> >> The protocol reduces the exposure to the above threats in the absence >> of authentication by ignoring ND packets received from off-link >> senders. The Hop Limit field of all received packets is verified to >> contain 255, the maximum legal value. Because routers decrement the >> Hop Limit on all packets they forward, received packets containing a >> Hop Limit of 255 must have originated from a neighbor. >> >> I don't know off hand if there's any place this is documented (what to >> use for hop limit with link-local). >> > > I think your explanation makes sense about ND. > > But, about DHCP, I need to know whether a DHCP Solicit with HopLimit 1 > is valid or not. > > As I said earlier, some DHCP clients set it at 255 whereas others at 1. > > In some setting, the DHCP Solicit is encapsulated in IPv4. Some of the > decapsulation RFCs say that the HopLimit is decremented. > > In that setting, it is not clear whether decrementing the hop limit > happens, or not. > > But I want to make sure the client which sets HopLimit at 1 (odhcp6c) is > the right way to do. > > I think a good place to clarify this is in the DHCP spec. > > The spec could say that the HopLimit has some preferred value. > > Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix Delegation Solicit, >>> or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the intention is to only request t= he >>> Prefix, because the address comes from RA). >>> >> >> Not sure what an "empty" IA_NA is. Whether you include an IA_NA or not >> with IA_PD is the client's choice. If it what's an address (such as for >> management) on the upstream link, than it should include an IA_NA. This = is >> covered in the text in 6.3 (IA_PD only) vs 6.4 (IA_PD and IA_NA, typical= ly). >> > > Noted. > > Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation Solicit? (the >>> intention is to get the DNS server from RA, but some client puts an emp= ty >>> ORO there). >>> >> >> An empty ORO is fine (it should not cause problems, but is obviously >> useless). Though if they are following the rfc3315bis and doing what the= y >> should, there would not be an empty ORO. >> > > Noted. > > Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix Delegation? >>> >> >> See 13.1 of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 ... the source address here >> should be link-local. >> > > Well, that contradicts some trial. > > I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src of a > DHCPv6 Solicit. Other DHCP clients have this optional between LLA or > GUA. The operator I work with wants it to be a GUA. > > As such, I dont know what is the way forward: should the spec get > updated? shoudl the operator change? should the Cisco implementation > change? > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > --001a1145cd5ebc8ec80554376cf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
DHCP relay is an app layer encapsulation. The hop count i= sn't even presented to the app layer. It would be bizarre to do anythin= g special with it. I don't even know how you would write coffee that wo= uld accidentally get this wrong. So it shouldn't matter what hop count = the client uses. Hop count is only relevant at the routing layer.=C2=A0

On Jul 13, 2017= 12:00, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Bernie,

Le 12/07/2017 =C3=A0 23:33, Bernie Volz (volz) a =C3=A9crit :
Hi:

What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the IPv6 header?

ND uses hop limit of 255 so the destination can check that it is 255 on rec= eipt (whereas 1 could have been anything and forwarded many times).

But I'm not sure if that is a the best practice when you don't want= the packet forwarded. I would think that if the destination is a link-loca= l multicast, it really doesn't matter as nothing should forward the pac= ket (and if something is misconfigured to forward the packet, you're pr= obably in deeper trouble than just with DHCPv6).

RFC 4861 has:

11.2.=C2=A0 Securing Neighbor Discovery Messages

The protocol reduces the exposure to the above threats in the absence
of authentication by ignoring ND packets received from off-link
senders.=C2=A0 The Hop Limit field of all received packets is verified to contain 255, the maximum legal value.=C2=A0 Because routers decrement the Hop Limit on all packets they forward, received packets containing a
Hop Limit of 255 must have originated from a neighbor.

I don't know off hand if there's any place this is documented (what= to use for hop limit with link-local).

I think your explanation makes sense about ND.

But, about DHCP, I need to know whether a DHCP Solicit with HopLimit 1
is valid or not.

As I said earlier, some DHCP clients set it at 255 whereas others at 1.

In some setting, the DHCP Solicit is encapsulated in IPv4.=C2=A0 Some of th= e
decapsulation RFCs say that the HopLimit is decremented.

In that setting, it is not clear whether decrementing the hop limit
happens, or not.

But I want to make sure the client which sets HopLimit at 1 (odhcp6c) is the right way to do.

I think a good place to clarify this is in the DHCP spec.

The spec could say that the HopLimit has some preferred value.

Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix Delegation Solicit, o= r must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the intention is to only request the Pr= efix, because the address comes from RA).

Not sure what an "empty" IA_NA is. Whether you include an IA_NA o= r not with IA_PD is the client's choice. If it what's an address (s= uch as for management) on the upstream link, than it should include an IA_N= A. This is covered in the text in 6.3 (IA_PD only) vs 6.4 (IA_PD and IA_NA,= typically).

Noted.

Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation Solicit? (the inten= tion is to get the DNS server from RA, but some client puts an empty ORO th= ere).

An empty ORO is fine (it should not cause problems, but is obviously useles= s). Though if they are following the rfc3315bis and doing what they should,= there would not be an empty ORO.

Noted.

Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix Delegation?

See 13.1 of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 ... the source address here should= be link-local.

Well, that contradicts some trial.

I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src of a
DHCPv6 Solicit.=C2=A0 Other DHCP clients have this optional between LLA or<= br> GUA.=C2=A0 The operator I work with wants it to be a GUA.

As such, I dont know what is the way forward: should the spec get
updated?=C2=A0 shoudl the operator change?=C2=A0 should the Cisco implement= ation
change?

Alex

_______________________________________________
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg
--001a1145cd5ebc8ec80554376cf5-- From nobody Thu Jul 13 13:01:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE928131777 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:01:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4B1OodfnSSEd for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37E5C131778 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6DK1CwV174429; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:12 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 52182205A22; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442ED204D2B; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.92] ([132.166.84.92]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6DK1BFR024175; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:11 +0200 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:01:22 -0000 Le 13/07/2017 à 19:38, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > Regarding the hop limit, I don’t have a recommendation; I'd likely > leave it be what the OS defaults it to if I were writing a client. > I'm not sure I'd put this in the 3315bis specification, but the WG > can debate that issue. My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. It may be that the decap does or does not decrement HopLimit. I am saying 'may' because I am not sure there is a spec for GTP that encapsulates IPv6 in IPv4 (or there is but I dont know the number). > Note also that the server does not have an easy way to get the hop > count (well, perhaps there is a way but the server I work on doesn't > care what it is) and therefore I doubt any of them check. > > > Regarding Link Local vs GLA in Solicit, I think following the > specification would be recommended. Use link-local. Noted. > For things that use GLA, likely it doesn't matter since if the > Solicit is relayed and then the GLA isn't really used by the server > -- as the link-address in the Relay-Forw. It may matter if the server > is directly on link if it checks. I think that using differing scopes > for source/destination addresses is a bad idea (and certainly sending > with a source of LL and destination of GLA would be very bad). So, I > think the client should stick to using the LL unless it is > unicasting. Noted. > Note also that section 13.1 (for the unicast, GLA case) assumes the > message was not multicast (section 18.4 about UseMulticast Status > talks about "Reception of Unicast Messages"). > > I think section 13.1 was written with the assumption that > determining the destination address of a packet is harder than > obtaining the source address; hence the assumption is that if a GLA > is used as the source address, it was not a multicast [to the > link-local multicast address]. Today, kernels typically provide the > ability to get the destination address, not just the source address > (though it takes a bit more code to do so). > > >> I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src >> of aDHCPv6 Solicit. > > That's a bit of a broad statement as Cisco has many different > devices (and many different operating systems and versions) ... > perhaps if you could indicate which device(s) and software versions > you've found this to be the behavior on, I can perhaps follow up. I cant say which precisely Cisco client. The operator knows. The operator tells me to imitate what the Cisco client does, because that's what works. And that client puts a GUA in the src. I have informed the operator about this and let's see. > I will also add that in many cases when devices are doing DHCPv6, > they will only have a LL so it may also depend on the network > configuration. I agree there are many cases like that. The case I am concerned with wants that the GUA comes from the RA, and the prefix from DHCPv6-PD (a sort NAT-free scalable tethering on cellular connection). Alex > > - Bernie > > -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Petrescu > [mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 > 12:01 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz) Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - > questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation > > Bernie, > > Le 12/07/2017 à 23:33, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : >> Hi: >> >>> What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the IPv6 >>> header? >> >> ND uses hop limit of 255 so the destination can check that it is >> 255 on receipt (whereas 1 could have been anything and forwarded >> many times). >> >> But I'm not sure if that is a the best practice when you don't want >> the packet forwarded. I would think that if the destination is a >> link-local multicast, it really doesn't matter as nothing should >> forward the packet (and if something is misconfigured to forward >> the packet, you're probably in deeper trouble than just with >> DHCPv6). >> >> RFC 4861 has: >> >> 11.2. Securing Neighbor Discovery Messages >> >> The protocol reduces the exposure to the above threats in the >> absence of authentication by ignoring ND packets received from >> off-link senders. The Hop Limit field of all received packets is >> verified to contain 255, the maximum legal value. Because routers >> decrement the Hop Limit on all packets they forward, received >> packets containing a Hop Limit of 255 must have originated from a >> neighbor. >> >> I don't know off hand if there's any place this is documented >> (what to use for hop limit with link-local). > > I think your explanation makes sense about ND. > > But, about DHCP, I need to know whether a DHCP Solicit with HopLimit > 1 is valid or not. > > As I said earlier, some DHCP clients set it at 255 whereas others at > 1. > > In some setting, the DHCP Solicit is encapsulated in IPv4. Some of > the decapsulation RFCs say that the HopLimit is decremented. > > In that setting, it is not clear whether decrementing the hop limit > happens, or not. > > But I want to make sure the client which sets HopLimit at 1 > (odhcp6c) is the right way to do. > > I think a good place to clarify this is in the DHCP spec. > > The spec could say that the HopLimit has some preferred value. > >>> Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix Delegation >>> Solicit, or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the intention is >>> to only request the Prefix, because the address comes from RA). >> >> Not sure what an "empty" IA_NA is. Whether you include an IA_NA or >> not with IA_PD is the client's choice. If it what's an address >> (such as for management) on the upstream link, than it should >> include an IA_NA. This is covered in the text in 6.3 (IA_PD only) >> vs 6.4 (IA_PD and IA_NA, typically). > > Noted. > >>> Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation Solicit? >>> (the intention is to get the DNS server from RA, but some >>> client puts an empty ORO there). >> >> An empty ORO is fine (it should not cause problems, but is >> obviously useless). Though if they are following the rfc3315bis >> and doing what they should, there would not be an empty ORO. > > Noted. > >>> Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix >>> Delegation? >> >> See 13.1 of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 ... the source address >> here should be link-local. > > Well, that contradicts some trial. > > I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src > of a DHCPv6 Solicit. Other DHCP clients have this optional between > LLA or GUA. The operator I work with wants it to be a GUA. > > As such, I dont know what is the way forward: should the spec get > updated? shoudl the operator change? should the Cisco > implementation change? > > Alex > From nobody Thu Jul 13 13:02:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B91131779 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FT5BDdtrTqvg for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1B0D131786 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6DK1nTc174589; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:49 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 68423205BCC; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 593D2205A22; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.92] ([132.166.84.92]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6DK1mFt024449; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:48 +0200 To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:01:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:01:59 -0000 For relay the DHCP spec says something like HpopLimit 32, which is fine. Alex Le 13/07/2017 à 20:51, Ted Lemon a écrit : > DHCP relay is an app layer encapsulation. The hop count isn't even > presented to the app layer. It would be bizarre to do anything special > with it. I don't even know how you would write coffee that would > accidentally get this wrong. So it shouldn't matter what hop count the > client uses. Hop count is only relevant at the routing layer. > > On Jul 13, 2017 12:00, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > wrote: > > Bernie, > > Le 12/07/2017 à 23:33, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > > Hi: > > What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the > IPv6 header? > > > ND uses hop limit of 255 so the destination can check that it is > 255 on receipt (whereas 1 could have been anything and forwarded > many times). > > But I'm not sure if that is a the best practice when you don't > want the packet forwarded. I would think that if the destination > is a link-local multicast, it really doesn't matter as nothing > should forward the packet (and if something is misconfigured to > forward the packet, you're probably in deeper trouble than just > with DHCPv6). > > RFC 4861 has: > > 11.2. Securing Neighbor Discovery Messages > > The protocol reduces the exposure to the above threats in the > absence > of authentication by ignoring ND packets received from off-link > senders. The Hop Limit field of all received packets is verified to > contain 255, the maximum legal value. Because routers decrement the > Hop Limit on all packets they forward, received packets containing a > Hop Limit of 255 must have originated from a neighbor. > > I don't know off hand if there's any place this is documented > (what to use for hop limit with link-local). > > > I think your explanation makes sense about ND. > > But, about DHCP, I need to know whether a DHCP Solicit with HopLimit 1 > is valid or not. > > As I said earlier, some DHCP clients set it at 255 whereas others at 1. > > In some setting, the DHCP Solicit is encapsulated in IPv4. Some of the > decapsulation RFCs say that the HopLimit is decremented. > > In that setting, it is not clear whether decrementing the hop limit > happens, or not. > > But I want to make sure the client which sets HopLimit at 1 (odhcp6c) is > the right way to do. > > I think a good place to clarify this is in the DHCP spec. > > The spec could say that the HopLimit has some preferred value. > > Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix > Delegation Solicit, or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the > intention is to only request the Prefix, because the address > comes from RA). > > > Not sure what an "empty" IA_NA is. Whether you include an IA_NA > or not with IA_PD is the client's choice. If it what's an > address (such as for management) on the upstream link, than it > should include an IA_NA. This is covered in the text in 6.3 > (IA_PD only) vs 6.4 (IA_PD and IA_NA, typically). > > > Noted. > > Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation > Solicit? (the intention is to get the DNS server from RA, > but some client puts an empty ORO there). > > > An empty ORO is fine (it should not cause problems, but is > obviously useless). Though if they are following the rfc3315bis > and doing what they should, there would not be an empty ORO. > > > Noted. > > Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix > Delegation? > > > See 13.1 of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 ... the source address > here should be link-local. > > > Well, that contradicts some trial. > > I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src of a > DHCPv6 Solicit. Other DHCP clients have this optional between LLA or > GUA. The operator I work with wants it to be a GUA. > > As such, I dont know what is the way forward: should the spec get > updated? shoudl the operator change? should the Cisco implementation > change? > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > From nobody Thu Jul 13 13:06:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B6612EBFE for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:06:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yqPSq4j5Dirb for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED3F412EACC for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6DK6Bdf028427; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:06:11 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 60F96205BA8; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:06:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5DD2059E8; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:06:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.92] ([132.166.84.92]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6DK69ZU027580; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:06:10 +0200 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , Timothy Winters , =?UTF-8?B?SklOTUVJIFRhdHV5YSAvIOelnuaYjumBlOWTiQ==?= Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Ralph Droms References: <8418750467ae490ea50e342380a565be@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <67c761541b674041ba5a2eb0b9ea41fa@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <7f897317e79e4576bebc772c45edb703@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <3227281E-1FC2-448F-A9D2-9E7603A24E15@cisco.com> <72E71872-9AC3-4D74-B889-B13CE05F62E4@cisco.com> <6f7fc559-d6c7-9479-2086-c68dac2e0d64@gmail.com> <5573951f86ce44e59d78e2a7214c3546@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <72cf2d54-7581-024f-96b4-d325455f39ca@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:06:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5573951f86ce44e59d78e2a7214c3546@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-08 - Respond by May 30th, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 20:06:18 -0000 Le 13/07/2017 à 20:08, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > Hi: > > The text is now (in 18.2.10.1 and similar in 6.3): > > If the client uses a delegated prefix to configure addresses on > interfaces on itself or other nodes behind it, the preferred and > valid lifetimes of those addresses MUST be no larger than the > remaining preferred and valid lifetimes, respectively, for the > delegated prefix at any time. In particular, if the delegated prefix > or a prefix derived from it is advertised for stateless address > autoconfiguration [RFC4862], the advertised valid and preferred > lifetimes MUST NOT exceed the corresponding remaining lifetimes of > the delegated prefix. > > So, hopefully your comments are resolved? YEs, looks good. (and I hope there is a command in the CLI, or a setsockopt, on the client to add a preferred and valid lifetimes to an address that it assigns on an interface). Alex From nobody Thu Jul 13 14:15:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522DD13175A for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wkHxmaBsXFRM for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F187A131713 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id k14so35504116pgr.0 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JPPQ3M4bWYBgUTjP5CgG4jBaR1UsRyuaweuNKbN7Wb8=; b=1cPd9t/lPqGvtiYCuSWkoUOakg9W9Y8yivFlvZEB/HFL3TdHr7xMJrvKlI3vFsXy+2 H9aO2L6cspQIduTNVa6faQWmSTxTmzG1fPMpJtPh65sVgfFUoXsfJayVLybJYOG73dmj RB6sy8KuWPW8pFajZbwAtZsNS3YzyxQymuDg0DuSSdbzqzY+1JHHhci8Q8//RORiPUCs 6c6fzEtMA/9fqwJHjVIO0xgMge1iPdX3t+8up8/DZVbPBQ1jhgRN0XWjlq9hCU+DreNi 1hKmu4K7kLJAr5WCzTaMdN7eyPtNtxKjpoAM6wQxJzKkodVTX+uyqjvSJ7GIdbe5h81S sIig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JPPQ3M4bWYBgUTjP5CgG4jBaR1UsRyuaweuNKbN7Wb8=; b=Q4bpsrn1HFAlDEOdtOUVjIyHaA3XFW3WpKsjLCzgkB07Mjvpp7jEq8P1ieeYtA4Lyi dZitwBTIsoQUcyJrT1WmuWcVfWUYbTqq3+eCuyYSvEeKc/aFFG3Bt0IzGeBcb+BOPJ2u 2TbLALVdS9Pl5KEy0Jlk4eTuq3Ur2nOWmVfMWapwfiDjv1Olv79LYnOxbX8favWYD3vh o/5DF/Bv2Q+1tHatPCpRIEtbPLPd16rQOdBCAEzTFYpSba+FapyDRmB7lKfMUok2+iiG dZ4h3mWeJzDN1BuP9lbinx5umtjUYAtA/zRDvLyWwWb+brIUn+bv55NsX4CFVDiaiE0p J6lg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110LbvK2cgGL6YZuE3sVA4nCndoh3lqo8z/E+Qy7Y2tpjw7Jzinp AQNJoNKQjODpaC4wQYjB17IkjnwYqG2y X-Received: by 10.99.123.18 with SMTP id w18mr11293391pgc.122.1499980496612; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:14:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:14:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c64baabc2b00554396ccf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:14:59 -0000 --f403045c64baabc2b00554396ccf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" wrote: My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. If a link local sourced multicast with a hop limit of one is dropped between sender and receiver, ip is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? --f403045c64baabc2b00554396ccf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote= :
My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1.=C2=A0 In order to make s= ure
that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular link does not drop it to 0 upon decap.

If a link local sourced multica= st with a hop limit of one is dropped between sender and receiver, ip is br= oken on that link, ne c'est pas?
--f403045c64baabc2b00554396ccf-- From nobody Thu Jul 13 14:42:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270F9131794 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:42:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iyz3Jye_aLMs for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10C18131775 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:42:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5011; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499982159; x=1501191759; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=r176BZ/DeaN1JWikEWkav8ehp7k+ztUuXjfVlfh/i+4=; b=d4QQZ5R5gZwQHRd5Wfq/5csD1iLCQPZZBEJLo9cPq5H4ZCO4K/RPlW6K v81hYD29EM78RnrCaCL4kPUv/9YyUCkDF6e6iAA1/pCaIPuBfA3nv1mWq YvDeQq60YqbfBqwUQPQLVIpKKbwZmx0/Pi0UpOqAkOwVmHHdl4tYxwPKW I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CZAABR6GdZ/5tdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1pkgRSOCZF1iC6NVYIRIQuFSgKDaT8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFGAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQECAQEBbAsFCwIBCBgjBAchBgsUEQIEDgWKFwMNCBCwboc0DYNkAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDKIUtLIJ5gleBcA0Wg0OCMQWRHo1XOwKPI4Rvkim?= =?us-ascii?q?MCIlMAR84gQp1FUkSAYUAHBmBTnaGT4I+AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,355,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="455002943" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Jul 2017 21:42:39 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6DLgduX030235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:42:39 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:42:38 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:42:38 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: Ted Lemon , dhcwg Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS9arXA8HVoh8yrE6qal+jjpOQE6JQvX5QgAF87zaAABwhFw== Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: <7166C3C9-81A5-4FF1-92FA-51B35DD4A6DD@cisco.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:42:42 -0000 That is a completely different constant, related to the Relay-Forward heade= r. That has nothing to do with IPv6 header field. - Bernie (from iPhone) > On Jul 13, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >=20 > For relay the DHCP spec says something like HpopLimit 32, which is fine. >=20 > Alex >=20 >> Le 13/07/2017 =E0 20:51, Ted Lemon a =E9crit : >> DHCP relay is an app layer encapsulation. The hop count isn't even prese= nted to the app layer. It would be bizarre to do anything special with it. = I don't even know how you would write coffee that would accidentally get th= is wrong. So it shouldn't matter what hop count the client uses. Hop count = is only relevant at the routing layer. >> On Jul 13, 2017 12:00, "Alexandre Petrescu" > wrote: >> Bernie, >> Le 12/07/2017 =E0 23:33, Bernie Volz (volz) a =E9crit : >> Hi: >> What is the Hop Limit that a Solicit should contain in the >> IPv6 header? >> ND uses hop limit of 255 so the destination can check that it is >> 255 on receipt (whereas 1 could have been anything and forwarded >> many times). >> But I'm not sure if that is a the best practice when you don't >> want the packet forwarded. I would think that if the destination >> is a link-local multicast, it really doesn't matter as nothing >> should forward the packet (and if something is misconfigured to >> forward the packet, you're probably in deeper trouble than just >> with DHCPv6). >> RFC 4861 has: >> 11.2. Securing Neighbor Discovery Messages >> The protocol reduces the exposure to the above threats in the >> absence >> of authentication by ignoring ND packets received from off-link >> senders. The Hop Limit field of all received packets is verified= to >> contain 255, the maximum legal value. Because routers decrement = the >> Hop Limit on all packets they forward, received packets containin= g a >> Hop Limit of 255 must have originated from a neighbor. >> I don't know off hand if there's any place this is documented >> (what to use for hop limit with link-local). >> I think your explanation makes sense about ND. >> But, about DHCP, I need to know whether a DHCP Solicit with HopLimit = 1 >> is valid or not. >> As I said earlier, some DHCP clients set it at 255 whereas others at = 1. >> In some setting, the DHCP Solicit is encapsulated in IPv4. Some of t= he >> decapsulation RFCs say that the HopLimit is decremented. >> In that setting, it is not clear whether decrementing the hop limit >> happens, or not. >> But I want to make sure the client which sets HopLimit at 1 (odhcp6c)= is >> the right way to do. >> I think a good place to clarify this is in the DHCP spec. >> The spec could say that the HopLimit has some preferred value. >> Is IA_NA with empty fields a valid option in a Prefix >> Delegation Solicit, or must IA_NA be absent altogether? (the >> intention is to only request the Prefix, because the address >> comes from RA). >> Not sure what an "empty" IA_NA is. Whether you include an IA_NA >> or not with IA_PD is the client's choice. If it what's an >> address (such as for management) on the upstream link, than it >> should include an IA_NA. This is covered in the text in 6.3 >> (IA_PD only) vs 6.4 (IA_PD and IA_NA, typically). >> Noted. >> Is ORO with empty fields illegal in a Prefix Delegation >> Solicit? (the intention is to get the DNS server from RA, >> but some client puts an empty ORO there). >> An empty ORO is fine (it should not cause problems, but is >> obviously useless). Though if they are following the rfc3315bis >> and doing what they should, there would not be an empty ORO. >> Noted. >> Is it ok to use a GUA in the src address of a Solicit Prefix >> Delegation? >> See 13.1 of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09 ... the source address >> here should be link-local. >> Well, that contradicts some trial. >> I can say e.g. some (I believe Cisco) client puts a GUA in the src of= a >> DHCPv6 Solicit. Other DHCP clients have this optional between LLA or >> GUA. The operator I work with wants it to be a GUA. >> As such, I dont know what is the way forward: should the spec get >> updated? shoudl the operator change? should the Cisco implementatio= n >> change? >> Alex >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg >> From nobody Fri Jul 14 11:32:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3EFA1316F2 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GJsREOy0ci8e for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E37A13171D for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6EIW2pT006853; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:32:02 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id B8B15203388; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:32:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F71D2032F8; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:32:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.71] ([132.166.84.71]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6EIW11l014382; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:32:02 +0200 To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:32:01 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:32:09 -0000 Le 13/07/2017 à 23:14, Ted Lemon a écrit : > On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > wrote: > > My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure > that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular > link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. > > > If a link local sourced multicast with a hop limit of one is dropped > between sender and receiver, ip is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? If that link is a real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. But if the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - then it may be that tunnel works or no. Alex > From nobody Fri Jul 14 11:35:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C40713171D for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KbI7qH9R4_Uz for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com (mail-pg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 981761316E3 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id u62so49343444pgb.3 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5DU9iHiLtYODrM3431W7Pqu74cI0R7aSCB1wHqJaQaM=; b=hVPrl5PqrsBzEae+TIMMnfndw0QxWNFvl5fg1OGdXzEKfuBucSIpETVYvE7A9kXuM/ 0iF4xVXjwrqaHXJaclP3ifTwPJH77/Soye7aEy4owruAv3R+P9Gconjpd9CMZGGXjSQ3 8EhuMmnxkMxC/xIAoQq/g1niuCwXKSSFmgUuMuxXrcxJo0eBQXBdVMKmR83Wyz/xkZd6 TC6lxZ3bYCAbE4+IX6j2Gd+ExAWc53U0csr9OLsweTOZhZNLC939ha430WFL19MuNpoU dWt4k0CnuQMcuz5aZo5KW9SgaSmFH0NdCUHFQecAxA7I+JvJ1UPUnjcMQky1X42gkveG Y7PA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5DU9iHiLtYODrM3431W7Pqu74cI0R7aSCB1wHqJaQaM=; b=GsaPbqRb2krsHVTVLG0+iV02sDNowu0OPanDVa1LBQMmsaUv3stn0dzwGWAshEGtsN wvMx7T6dLgBIpki7GPrsmKJyPw6MSwosJZG2j1s0o31usaL76DXgwVLwjn9LFucchJDR Nv8cJIyYtjUxSorFNVLpv9rDw4G2xrXpfE8qNVRUklIsrmMCMgHDf5gb9oTHg6BEVT2M LJnAYZagXaV+kxWTfU9SbSA8NQqVK+GEt7h4b0EJop4/vLuVWq9qYgB6FdylDg7kxTTt RVdZ109PlvePWwIBMlHwIFuQAxUgaQCG1YV+RWthIGCj9nmZYGtzbetGAQkVNGnOx+ws cPKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111zTq0go0TIW+rQB8rBBMXsEb7UrMew4KBhP1ZtPdHzF61eEdx4 h2uRuAgfrPsL7mHYOf1x1iN6rje/kM6V X-Received: by 10.84.132.39 with SMTP id 36mr17522553ple.237.1500057355154; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:35:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:35:14 +0200 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c12f714cc0a3a05544b518f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:35:57 -0000 --94eb2c12f714cc0a3a05544b518f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So are the DHCP clients you are talking about setting the IP header hop count to 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That is, what is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it might cause a problem in this case? On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Le 13/07/2017 =C3=A0 23:14, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : > >> On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > wrote: >> >> My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make su= re >> that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a >> cellular >> link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. >> >> >> If a link local sourced multicast with a hop limit of one is dropped >> between sender and receiver, ip is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? >> > > If that link is a real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. > > But if the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - then it may b= e > that tunnel works or no. > > Alex > > >> --94eb2c12f714cc0a3a05544b518f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So are the DHCP clients you are talking about setting the = IP header hop count to 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? =C2= =A0 That is, what is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you t= hink it might cause a problem in this case?

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre = Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:


Le 13/07/2017 =C3=A0 23:14, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit :
On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.c= om <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1.=C2=A0 In o= rder to make sure
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on= a cellular
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 link does not drop it to 0 upon decap.


If a link local sourced multicast with a hop limit of one is dropped betwee= n sender and receiver, ip is broken on that link, ne c'est pas?

 If that link is a real link then yes - ip is broken on that link.

But if the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - then it may be = that tunnel works or no.

Alex



--94eb2c12f714cc0a3a05544b518f-- From nobody Fri Jul 14 12:15:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25740131769 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:15:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B9qdoUVNBruN for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74AF513176F for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6EJFU6V025373; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:15:30 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id EE6E220339B; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:15:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9D0201D5C; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:15:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.71] ([132.166.84.71]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6EJFSNu018965; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:15:29 +0200 To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:15:28 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:15:41 -0000 Le 14/07/2017 à 20:35, Ted Lemon a écrit : > So are the DHCP clients you are talking about setting the IP header hop > count to 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That is, what > is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it might > cause a problem in this case? Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit field in the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) with value 1. This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular network encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further decapsulates. The encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some non-wireshark packet dump format, with fields like "TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, it only offers IPv6. There is no GTP RFC. There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". This RFC says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. This raises a potential speculation that the network drops an incoming packet that has Hop Limit 1. It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not decrement the Hop Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In this case there is no problem with DHCP Solicit having Hop Limit 1. Alex > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > > > Le 13/07/2017 à 23:14, Ted Lemon a écrit : > > On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > >> wrote: > > My oppinion is to make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order > to make sure > that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening > on a cellular > link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. > > > If a link local sourced multicast with a hop limit of one is > dropped between sender and receiver, ip is broken on that link, > ne c'est pas? > > > If that link is a real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. > > But if the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - then it > may be that tunnel works or no. > > Alex > > > From nobody Fri Jul 14 12:26:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1A6131897 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=t-mobile.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OF9fYUGoVgUn for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz (ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz [93.153.104.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13686131457 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Hostname: ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz ED9A22E1E67 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=t-mobile.cz; s=dkim2016; t=1500060361; bh=Y+pZKsDiQJ+LlRkLVRvqy28SGH5Q4c5oiSPBgl63Mtc=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Se2HOYFTiS2UZ0CPbR4hkQylG9z6ynQD1qyBf2N1dv93sUQccjQgrZmiGQQM/lDj7 Si/dUOt5Uk6wlAulDYLfoM/TnhlyBX8MPMKDkumRN3Lcs5c3oJMDkiwYpnMtCZ10PY H/W1a+cHuLzLq210rsrOPjMp+32Jo+ZlvcUPnogvBei0Ci/M0HgLPxa1GMwF9EccDl wu6VVuf/CEu1LqsZ0NxYnKXHbs3+MNJRGQjFtk3xd3RVSGAhTdx8BkabjTNnkDQKlK aESo1wiiCoX9LTShAeFenktBGpOnxyv4pZBuZwTQ+Ef9Fd5nDB+kz6JtsoivUw9yus hNB2JGbOG/W0w== From: =?utf-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS/M+G8BPWcnoA8ku2dlH89fUEWaJThLcAgAALPQCAACR7yw== Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:26:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> , <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, cs-CZ, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forwarded Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:26:09 -0000 DQoNCj4gT24gMTQgSnVsIDIwMTcsIGF0IDIxOjE1LCBBbGV4YW5kcmUgUGV0cmVzY3UgPGFsZXhh bmRyZS5wZXRyZXNjdUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPg0KPj4gTGUgMTQvMDcvMjAxNyDDoCAy 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dGF2dWplIHRhdG8genByw6F2YSBrb25lxI1uw70gbsOhdnJoIG5hIHV6YXbFmWVuw60gxI1pIHpt xJtudSBzbWxvdXZ5IGFuaSBwxZlpamV0w60gdGFrb3bDqWhvIG7DoXZyaHUuIFRoZSBjb21tdW5p Y2F0aW9uIHByaW5jaXBsZXMgd2hpY2ggVC1Nb2JpbGUgQ3plY2ggUmVwdWJsaWMgYS5zLiBhcHBs aWVzIHdoZW4gbmVnb3RpYXRpbmcgY29udHJhY3RzIGFyZSBkZWZpbmVkIGhlcmU8aHR0cDovL3d3 dy50LW1vYmlsZS5jei9kY3B1YmxpYy9aYXNhZHlfa29tdW5pa2FjZV9wcmlfc2plZG5hdmFuaV9z bWx1dl9lbi5wZGY+LiBVbmxlc3Mgb3RoZXJ3aXNlIHN0YXRlZCBpbiB0aGUgcHJpbmNpcGxlcywg dGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGRvZXMgbm90IGNvbnN0aXR1dGUgdGhlIGZpbmFsIG9mZmVyIHRvIGNvbnRy YWN0IG9yIGFuIGFtZW5kbWVudCBvZiBhIGNvbnRyYWN0IG9yIGFjY2VwdGFuY2Ugb2Ygc3VjaCBv ZmZlci4NCg== From nobody Fri Jul 14 12:50:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA65131675 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:50:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X1fWfbkYa7NJ for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0C52131465 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6EJoBan029803; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:50:11 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9718320332A; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:50:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839C2200BCA; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:50:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.71] ([132.166.84.71]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6EJoATV016684; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:50:11 +0200 To: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= Cc: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:50:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:50:19 -0000 Le 14/07/2017 à 21:26, Vízdal Aleš a écrit : > > >> On 14 Jul 2017, at 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu >> wrote: >> >>> Le 14/07/2017 à 20:35, Ted Lemon a écrit : So are the DHCP >>> clients you are talking about setting the IP header hop count to >>> 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That is, what >>> is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it >>> might cause a problem in this case? >> >> Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit >> field in the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) with value 1. >> >> This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular network >> encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further decapsulates. The >> encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some non-wireshark >> packet dump format, with fields like "TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This >> cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, it only >> offers IPv6. >> >> There is no GTP RFC. > > GTP aka GPRS Tunnelling Protocol has been specified by 3GPP. > > It starts at the eNodeB and terminates at the PGW where the DHCP > server/relay would sit. You see, I am also told that my "MT" ("Mobile Terminal"?) terminates GTP. I guess both are possible (terminate some times at eNodeB and other times at MT). Or otherwise the expression "terminate at" may have different meanings to different people. >> There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". This RFC >> says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. >> >> This raises a potential speculation that the network drops an >> incoming packet that has Hop Limit 1. >> >> It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not decrement >> the Hop Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In this case there >> is no problem with DHCP Solicit having Hop Limit 1. > > It shall keep the packet as-is, since it is not visible from > user/data-plane point of view. I dont understand that. Not sure what you mean by user-data planes. The IP Hop Limit is in the IP header. Some IP tunnelling mechanisms do touch the Hop Limit of the encapsulated packet. Why would GTP be different than the other IP tunnelling mechanisms? > I suggest a deep dive into 3GPP specs ... It is certainly advantageous to understand the 3GPP specs. But I'd rather consider putting that into an Internet Draft. Alex > >> Alex >> >> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu >>> >> > wrote: Le 13/07/2017 à >>> 23:14, Ted Lemon a écrit : On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre >>> Petrescu" >> >>> >> >> wrote: My oppinion is to >>> make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure that the >>> encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular >>> link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. If a link local sourced >>> multicast with a hop limit of one is dropped between sender and >>> receiver, ip is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? If that link >>> is a real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. But if the >>> link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - then it may be >>> that tunnel works or no. Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > Zásady komunikace, které společnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. > užívá při sjednávání smluv, jsou uvedeny > zde. > > > Není-li v zásadách uvedeno jinak, nepředstavuje tato zpráva konečný > návrh na uzavření či změnu smlouvy ani přijetí takového návrhu. The > communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies > when negotiating contracts are defined > here. > > > Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not > constitute the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract > or acceptance of such offer. > From nobody Fri Jul 14 21:37:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAA812785F for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:37:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sPFylP9bjkfl for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x230.google.com (mail-pf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5332120725 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id q85so53879646pfq.1 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:37:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UQk9DTI9lMxqy46OOLZ+0x0WZBiZlw9KJde9rvOMthE=; b=z564pCJKGZdeh4KRMJb0jYTFwfMNrbOQwv8IS165q3sJYLf5psTqQ35/mSLtiR5+PI 9cz23v+cdj4PvMAaT+/5X2gtYEEBqXwiC8mv3/dCvfh73lGBJRsAJvRHKxwhOf5QyqxZ UauqqzWGE9aPHNz16UibZLDpzhS764881/mqE76u8EqpdzYnH/j61WnC5cLKRFWjrCvH JPkycHMvpCnqrhkNStztmKuaE4Q2n3Lsy8XbD6nZ/7P2A3Hbt1G0FgD1JjKdGvQqlLec QnWorZ621Jm9/Pef3ogH+ymDJAZ539AC4wcyZv8ds7/VcsIH1aS9dmiprEbl8vGjOkQF U5ig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UQk9DTI9lMxqy46OOLZ+0x0WZBiZlw9KJde9rvOMthE=; b=RAtG0patTiUITR0AzuTPXMxIbsZL5MAM9BsDAlxgMlkRYHBDNkOyimD1z4vwVVdgJj Fw3UNLGTRRjB/MuC8GC2BM8Q2oRP0HbBcGgpA5OvsNCjwK68mqt90n76GoKei/P/1Hcx HlvVB0ub5GmlqJxwWe+knDJ80jxYPueUu7nj/K+xoVpbZ5xhkSClC44F1xrQ18pEexwM X2kS95k8RocOHMzXuNDbU54p0t0emKwsEU8cnmkcY1reaVukjW48m9dGDNOwbdJU1r34 kzrqCXW1dF/6Rp4XsCpc2xXrjXVrfHEYmRVHgMc6CHvg1hIpkCgwCdbMd0OwGBTAyw+Y S4zw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113boRgQMi0CvqgSroHucm1CdsWmN5y074Q00mVqPF+a7tr8kP+Z QLZitaljXoYf1/9PrFpzOGACmkDwWSs1 X-Received: by 10.98.15.71 with SMTP id x68mr8705040pfi.176.1500093422113; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:37:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:36:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 06:36:21 +0200 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1137741e8e2d16055453b74a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 04:37:04 -0000 --001a1137741e8e2d16055453b74a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexandre, it appears to me that you are asking the DHC working group to make a change to the DHCPv6 spec in order to solve a problem you don't know exists in an IPv6 layer 2 implementation. I think that this is wrong-headed on two fronts. First, you are speculating that the problem exists. Find out whether the problem exists, don't speculate. Second, the problem is not in DHCP, if it does exist--it is in an IP implementation. So fix the implementation--don't ask for a change to the DHCP spec. On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Le 14/07/2017 =C3=A0 21:26, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 a =C3=A9crit : > >> >> >> On 14 Jul 2017, at 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu < >>> alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Le 14/07/2017 =C3=A0 20:35, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : So are the DHCP cl= ients you >>>> are talking about setting the IP header hop count to >>>> 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That is, what >>>> is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it >>>> might cause a problem in this case? >>>> >>> >>> Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit field >>> in the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) with value 1. >>> >>> This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular network >>> encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further decapsulates. The >>> encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some non-wireshark packet >>> dump format, with fields like "TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This >>> cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, it only offer= s >>> IPv6. >>> >>> There is no GTP RFC. >>> >> >> GTP aka GPRS Tunnelling Protocol has been specified by 3GPP. >> >> It starts at the eNodeB and terminates at the PGW where the DHCP >> server/relay would sit. >> > > You see, I am also told that my "MT" ("Mobile Terminal"?) terminates > GTP. I guess both are possible (terminate some times at eNodeB and > other times at MT). > > Or otherwise the expression "terminate at" may have different meanings > to different people. > > There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". This RFC >>> says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. >>> >>> This raises a potential speculation that the network drops an incoming >>> packet that has Hop Limit 1. >>> >>> It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not decrement the Ho= p >>> Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In this case there is no problem >>> with DHCP Solicit having Hop Limit 1. >>> >> >> It shall keep the packet as-is, since it is not visible from >> user/data-plane point of view. >> > > I dont understand that. Not sure what you mean by user-data planes. > > The IP Hop Limit is in the IP header. Some IP tunnelling mechanisms do > touch the Hop Limit of the encapsulated packet. Why would GTP be > different than the other IP tunnelling mechanisms? > > I suggest a deep dive into 3GPP specs ... >> > > It is certainly advantageous to understand the 3GPP specs. > > But I'd rather consider putting that into an Internet Draft. > > Alex > > > >> Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu < >>>> alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: Le 13/07/2017 =C3=A0 23:14, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : On Jul 13,= 2017 16:01, >>>> "Alexandre Petrescu" >>> alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: My oppinion is to >>>> make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure that the >>>> encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular link d= oes >>>> not drop it to 0 upon decap. If a link local sourced multicast with a = hop >>>> limit of one is dropped between sender and receiver, ip is broken on t= hat >>>> link, ne c'est pas? If that link is a real link then yes - ip is broke= n on >>>> that link. But if the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel -= then >>>> it may be that tunnel works or no. Alex >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list >>> dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg >>> >> >> Z=C3=A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republ= ic a.s. u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 >> p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uvedeny zde> ublic/Zasady_komunikace_pri_sjednavani_smluv_cz.pdf>. >> >> >> >> Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, nep=C5=99edstavuje tato= zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD > >> n=C3=A1vrh na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8Di zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99i= jet=C3=AD takov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu. The >> communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when >> negotiating contracts are defined here> public/Zasady_komunikace_pri_sjednavani_smluv_en.pdf>. >> >> >> >> Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not > >> constitute the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract >> or acceptance of such offer. >> >> --001a1137741e8e2d16055453b74a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alexandre, it appears to me that you are asking the DHC wo= rking group to make a change to the DHCPv6 spec in order to solve a problem= you don't know exists in an IPv6 layer 2 implementation. =C2=A0 I thin= k that this is wrong-headed on two fronts. =C2=A0 First, you are speculatin= g that the problem exists.=C2=A0 Find out whether the problem exists, don&#= 39;t speculate. =C2=A0 Second, the problem is not in DHCP, if it does exist= --it is in an IP implementation. =C2=A0 So fix the implementation--don'= t ask for a change to the DHCP spec.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Alexandre Petresc= u <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:


Le 14/07/2017 =C3=A0 21:26, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 a =C3=A9crit :


On 14 Jul 2017, at 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

Le 14/07/2017 =C3=A0 20:35, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : So are the DHCP client= s you are talking about setting the IP header hop count to
=C2=A00/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1?=C2=A0 =C2=A0That is, = what
=C2=A0is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it
=C2=A0might cause a problem in this case?

Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit field in = the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) with value 1.

This Solicit is sent on a cellular network.=C2=A0 The cellular network enca= psulates at some point in IPv4, and further decapsulates.=C2=A0 The
=C2=A0encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some non-wiresha= rk packet dump format, with fields like "TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MS= G".=C2=A0 This
=C2=A0cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, it only offe= rs IPv6.

There is no GTP RFC.

GTP aka GPRS Tunnelling Protocol has been specified by 3GPP.

It starts at the eNodeB and terminates at the PGW where the DHCP server/rel= ay would sit.

 You see, I am also told that my "MT" ("Mobile Terminal"= ?) terminates
GTP.=C2=A0 I guess both are possible (terminate some times at eNodeB and other times at MT).

Or otherwise the expression "terminate at" may have different mea= nings
to different people.

There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6".=C2=A0 Th= is RFC
=C2=A0says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit.

This raises a potential speculation that the network drops an incoming pack= et that has Hop Limit 1.

It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not decrement the Hop Li= mit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated.=C2=A0 In this case there is no problem = with DHCP Solicit having Hop Limit 1.

It shall keep the packet as-is, since it is not visible from user/data-plan= e point of view.

 I dont understand that.=C2=A0 Not sure what you mean by user-data planes.
The IP Hop Limit is in the IP header.=C2=A0 Some IP tunnelling mechanisms d= o
touch the Hop Limit of the encapsulated packet.=C2=A0 Why would GTP be
different than the other IP tunnelling mechanisms?

I suggest a deep dive into 3GPP specs ...

 It is certainly advantageous to understand the 3GPP specs.

But I'd rather consider putting that into an Internet Draft.

Alex



Alex



On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com= <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: Le 13/07/2017 = =C3=A0 23:14, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexand= re Petrescu" <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gma= il.com> <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petres= cu@gmail.com>>> wrote: My oppinion is to
=C2=A0make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1.=C2=A0 In order to make sure that the= encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular link does = not drop it to 0 upon decap. If a link local sourced multicast with a hop l= imit of one is dropped between sender and receiver, ip is broken on that li= nk, ne c'est pas? If that link is a real link then yes - ip is broken o= n that link. But if the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - th= en it may be that tunnel works or no. Alex

_______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg

Z=C3=A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republic = a.s. u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uv= edeny zde<http://www= .t-mobile.cz/dcpublic/Zasady_komunikace_pri_sjednavani_smluv_cz.p= df>.



Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, nep=C5=99edstavuje tato zp= r=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD
n=C3=A1vrh na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8Di zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet= =C3=AD takov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu. The communication principles which T-Mobi= le Czech Republic a.s. applies when negotiating contracts are defined here&= lt;http://www.t-mobile.= cz/dcpublic/Zasady_komunikace_pri_sjednavani_smluv_en.pdf>= .



Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not
constitute the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract
=C2=A0or acceptance of such offer.


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with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:45:24 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Ted Lemon , Alexandre Petrescu CC: =?utf-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS9arXA8HVoh8yrE6qal+jjpOQE6JQvX5QgAGNVYD//8L84IAAgDcAgAAUm4CAAWTSgIAAAOYAgAALPgCAAALygIAABr6AgACTBYD//+D+AA== Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 06:45:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Zf90ZSzwY7Q for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9363F127058 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6F8i8Xi027858; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:44:08 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 40156201283; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:44:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E53B200C1A; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:44:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.51] ([132.166.84.51]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6F8i638013603; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:44:07 +0200 To: Ted Lemon Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <251b4af8-e8c6-9e1f-8f30-a4b5298903dd@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:44:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:44:19 -0000 Le 15/07/2017 à 06:36, Ted Lemon a écrit : > Alexandre, it appears to me that you are asking the DHC working group to > make a change to the DHCPv6 spec in order to solve a problem you don't > know exists in an IPv6 layer 2 implementation. I think that this is > wrong-headed on two fronts. First, you are speculating that the > problem exists. Find out whether the problem exists, don't speculate. > Second, the problem is not in DHCP, if it does exist--it is in an IP > implementation. So fix the implementation--don't ask for a change to > the DHCP spec. In a sense I agree with you. I speculate on the problem existence with GTP. However, three different DHCP clients set two different values in the Hop Limit (a Cisco client, and the ISC set it to 255, whereas the odhcp6c sets it, at 1). Maybe that is not a problem either, but looks like to me like one would like all DHCP clients to set same value in that field. Just like all ND implementations set it at one single value. What do you think? Alex > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > > > Le 14/07/2017 à 21:26, Vízdal Aleš a écrit : > > > > On 14 Jul 2017, at 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > Le 14/07/2017 à 20:35, Ted Lemon a écrit : So are the > DHCP clients you are talking about setting the IP header > hop count to > 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That > is, what > is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do > you think it > might cause a problem in this case? > > > Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop > Limit field in the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) > with value 1. > > This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular > network encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further > decapsulates. The > encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some > non-wireshark packet dump format, with fields like "TEID", > "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This > cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, > it only offers IPv6. > > There is no GTP RFC. > > > GTP aka GPRS Tunnelling Protocol has been specified by 3GPP. > > It starts at the eNodeB and terminates at the PGW where the DHCP > server/relay would sit. > > > You see, I am also told that my "MT" ("Mobile Terminal"?) terminates > GTP. I guess both are possible (terminate some times at eNodeB and > other times at MT). > > Or otherwise the expression "terminate at" may have different meanings > to different people. > > There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". > This RFC > says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. > > This raises a potential speculation that the network drops > an incoming packet that has Hop Limit 1. > > It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not > decrement the Hop Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In > this case there is no problem with DHCP Solicit having Hop > Limit 1. > > > It shall keep the packet as-is, since it is not visible from > user/data-plane point of view. > > > I dont understand that. Not sure what you mean by user-data planes. > > The IP Hop Limit is in the IP header. Some IP tunnelling mechanisms do > touch the Hop Limit of the encapsulated packet. Why would GTP be > different than the other IP tunnelling mechanisms? > > I suggest a deep dive into 3GPP specs ... > > > It is certainly advantageous to understand the 3GPP specs. > > But I'd rather consider putting that into an Internet Draft. > > Alex > > > > Alex > > > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > >> wrote: Le > 13/07/2017 à 23:14, Ted Lemon a écrit : On Jul 13, 2017 > 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > > > > >>> wrote: My > oppinion is to > make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure > that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP > happening on a cellular link does not drop it to 0 upon > decap. If a link local sourced multicast with a hop > limit of one is dropped between sender and receiver, ip > is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? If that link is a > real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. But if > the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - > then it may be that tunnel works or no. Alex > > > _______________________________________________ dhcwg > mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > > > Zásady komunikace, které společnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. > užívá při sjednávání smluv, jsou uvedeny > zde >. > > > > Není-li v zásadách uvedeno jinak, nepředstavuje tato zpráva konečný > > návrh na uzavření či změnu smlouvy ani přijetí takového návrhu. > The communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. > applies when negotiating contracts are defined > here >. > > > > Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not > > constitute the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract > or acceptance of such offer. > > From nobody Sat Jul 15 01:47:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1491A12EC18 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ir1IJEkgILOT for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1AD412EC19 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6F8ln2D036450; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:47:49 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 42EF0200ECA; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:47:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31007201540; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:47:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.51] ([132.166.84.51]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6F8lmPc014608; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:47:48 +0200 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: Ted Lemon , =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <6c00ce4d-2e97-db4c-973a-9f753e402c08@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 10:47:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:47:56 -0000 Le 15/07/2017 à 08:45, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > I agree with Ted. > > And, it does appear that kernels will default to 1 for a hop limit with > multicast: > > “By default, IP multicast datagrams are sent with a hop limit of one, > which prevents the datagrams from being forwarded beyond a single > subnetwork.” Again it's ok with native IP on native links like IP-over-Ethernet. But IPv6 in 3GPP is a wholly different beast for which few specs - if any- exist at IETF. And DHCP-PD is probably the only part of DHCP that is considered in these 3GPP networks. In DHCP-PD it would be perfectly fine to use GUA in the src and dst ll. This is under discussion. > Thus, it is the multicast destination (ff02::1:2 for DHCPv6 packets) > that controls the (default) hop limit. > > Also note that 2460bis has: > > Hop Limit 8-bit unsigned integer. Decremented by 1 by > > each node that forwards the packet. When > > forwarding, the packet is discarded if Hop > > Limit was zero when received or is decremented > > to zero. A node that is the destination of a > > packet should not discard a packet with hop > > limit equal to zero, it should process the > > packet normally. > > RFC 2460 only has the 1^st sentence, so it was clarified as to what a > node that receives a packet should do if the hop count is 0 – process it. In IPv6 tunnelling both encap and decap decrement - leading to -1. Alex > > * Bernie > > *From: *Ted Lemon > *Date: *Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 6:36 AM > *To: *Alexandre Petrescu > *Cc: *Vízdal Aleš , "dhcwg@ietf.org" > , Bernie Volz > *Subject: *Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - > questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation > > Alexandre, it appears to me that you are asking the DHC working group to > make a change to the DHCPv6 spec in order to solve a problem you don't > know exists in an IPv6 layer 2 implementation. I think that this is > wrong-headed on two fronts. First, you are speculating that the > problem exists. Find out whether the problem exists, don't speculate. > Second, the problem is not in DHCP, if it does exist--it is in an IP > implementation. So fix the implementation--don't ask for a change to > the DHCP spec. > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > > > Le 14/07/2017 à 21:26, Vízdal Aleš a écrit : > > On 14 Jul 2017, at 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > Le 14/07/2017 à 20:35, Ted Lemon a écrit : So are the > DHCP clients you are talking about setting the IP header > hop count to > 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That > is, what > is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do > you think it > might cause a problem in this case? > > > Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop > Limit field in the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) > with value 1. > > This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular > network encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further > decapsulates. The > encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some > non-wireshark packet dump format, with fields like "TEID", > "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This > cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, > it only offers IPv6. > > There is no GTP RFC. > > > GTP aka GPRS Tunnelling Protocol has been specified by 3GPP. > > It starts at the eNodeB and terminates at the PGW where the DHCP > server/relay would sit. > > > You see, I am also told that my "MT" ("Mobile Terminal"?) terminates > GTP. I guess both are possible (terminate some times at eNodeB and > other times at MT). > > Or otherwise the expression "terminate at" may have different meanings > to different people. > > There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". > This RFC > says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. > > This raises a potential speculation that the network drops > an incoming packet that has Hop Limit 1. > > It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not > decrement the Hop Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In > this case there is no problem with DHCP Solicit having Hop > Limit 1. > > > It shall keep the packet as-is, since it is not visible from > user/data-plane point of view. > > > I dont understand that. Not sure what you mean by user-data planes. > > The IP Hop Limit is in the IP header. Some IP tunnelling mechanisms do > touch the Hop Limit of the encapsulated packet. Why would GTP be > different than the other IP tunnelling mechanisms? > > I suggest a deep dive into 3GPP specs ... > > > It is certainly advantageous to understand the 3GPP specs. > > But I'd rather consider putting that into an Internet Draft. > > Alex > > Alex > > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > >> wrote: Le > 13/07/2017 à 23:14, Ted Lemon a écrit : On Jul 13, 2017 > 16:01, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > > > > >>> wrote: My > oppinion is to > make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure > that the encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP > happening on a cellular link does not drop it to 0 upon > decap. If a link local sourced multicast with a hop > limit of one is dropped between sender and receiver, ip > is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? If that link is a > real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. But if > the link is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - > then it may be that tunnel works or no. Alex > > > _______________________________________________ dhcwg > mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > > Zásady komunikace, které společnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. > užívá při sjednávání smluv, jsou uvedeny > zde. > > > Není-li v zásadách uvedeno jinak, nepředstavuje tato zpráva konečný > > návrh na uzavření či změnu smlouvy ani přijetí takového návrhu. > The communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. > applies when negotiating contracts are defined > here. > > > Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not > > constitute the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract > or acceptance of such offer. > From nobody Sat Jul 15 02:25:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FA5131B03 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:25:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new 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alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 15 Jul 2017 09:25:45 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6F9Pjrg021442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:25:45 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 04:25:45 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 04:25:45 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: Ted Lemon , =?utf-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS9arXA8HVoh8yrE6qal+jjpOQE6JQvX5QgAGNVYD//8L84IAAgDcAgAAUm4CAAWTSgIAAAOYAgAALPgCAAALygIAABr6AgACTBYD//+D+AIAAZUKA//+ydCA= Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:25:44 +0000 Message-ID: <8c343dd606e1442085d298af53dc1e72@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6c00ce4d-2e97-db4c-973a-9f753e402c08@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6c00ce4d-2e97-db4c-973a-9f753e402c08@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.247.29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:25:49 -0000 PkJ1dCBJUHY2IGluIDNHUFAgaXMgYSB3aG9sbHkgZGlmZmVyZW50IGJlYXN0IGZvciB3aGljaCBm ZXcgc3BlY3MgLSBpZg0KPmFueS0gZXhpc3QgYXQgSUVURi4NCg0KWWVzLCBidXQgaXQgd291bGQg c2VlbSB0aGVuIHRoYXQgdGhleSB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIGlzc3VlcyB3aXRoIHByZXR0eSBtdWNoIGFs bCBtdWx0aWNhc3QsIHVubGVzcyBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCBzZW5kIG11bHRpY2FzdCBoYXZl IHRha2VuIHN0ZXBzIHRvIHNldCBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCBob3AgbGltaXQgZm9yIHRoZWlyIHBhY2tl dHMuIEkgd291bGQgZ3Vlc3MgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCB1c2Ugbm9uLWxpbmsgbG9j YWwgbXVsdGljYXN0IHdvdWxkIHNldCB0aGUgaG9wIGxpbWl0IChwZXJoYXBzIHRvICJkZWZhdWx0 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0J3i4Zg4rnY5 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 673D6124217 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6GK5ieG022949; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:05:44 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 85250202F63; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712AA202E6D; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.45] ([132.166.84.45]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6GK5dkG002127; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:05:40 +0200 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: Ted Lemon , =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6c00ce4d-2e97-db4c-973a-9f753e402c08@gmail.com> <8c343dd606e1442085d298af53dc1e72@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:05:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8c343dd606e1442085d298af53dc1e72@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:05:51 -0000 Le 15/07/2017 à 11:25, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : >> But IPv6 in 3GPP is a wholly different beast for which few specs - >> if any- exist at IETF. > > Yes, but it would seem then that they would have issues with pretty > much all multicast, unless applications that send multicast have > taken steps to set a different hop limit for their packets. I would > guess that applications that use non-link local multicast would set > the hop limit (perhaps to "default" which I think is typically around > 60). > > BTW: While it is only 1 data point, I checked a RedHat Enterprise > Linux 7.0 system and: > > IPV6_UNICAST_HOPS is 64 IPV6_MULTICAST_HOPS is 1 By the name of that multicast constant it sounds as if all multicast packets - be them link-scope or other scope - would have a default Hop Limit of 1. It is strange, because routers decrement the Hop Limit regardless of the the dst address being multicast or unicast. > (See RFC 3493 for details on these parameters.) > > See https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/ip-sysctl.txt > - it seems there is a means to change the default unicast hop limit, > but not the multicast one? The hop limit can be set with a C function on the socket interface, for packets sent out of that socket. Implementers of protocol extensions in the ND and MIP world do set it that way for their userspace software (not with system-wide calls like sysctl). Alex > > - Bernie > > -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Petrescu > [mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2017 > 4:48 AM To: Bernie Volz (volz) Cc: Ted Lemon > ; Vízdal Aleš ; dhcwg > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix > Delegation > > > > Le 15/07/2017 à 08:45, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : >> I agree with Ted. >> >> And, it does appear that kernels will default to 1 for a hop limit >> with multicast: >> >> “By default, IP multicast datagrams are sent with a hop limit of >> one, which prevents the datagrams from being forwarded beyond a >> single subnetwork.” > > Again it's ok with native IP on native links like IP-over-Ethernet. > > But IPv6 in 3GPP is a wholly different beast for which few specs - > if any- exist at IETF. > > And DHCP-PD is probably the only part of DHCP that is considered in > these 3GPP networks. > > In DHCP-PD it would be perfectly fine to use GUA in the src and dst > ll. This is under discussion. > >> Thus, it is the multicast destination (ff02::1:2 for DHCPv6 >> packets) that controls the (default) hop limit. >> >> Also note that 2460bis has: >> >> Hop Limit 8-bit unsigned integer. Decremented by 1 by >> >> each node that forwards the packet. When >> >> forwarding, the packet is discarded if Hop >> >> Limit was zero when received or is decremented >> >> to zero. A node that is the destination of a >> >> packet should not discard a packet with hop >> >> limit equal to zero, it should process the >> >> packet normally. >> >> RFC 2460 only has the 1^st sentence, so it was clarified as to what >> a node that receives a packet should do if the hop count is 0 – >> process it. > > In IPv6 tunnelling both encap and decap decrement - leading to -1. > > Alex >> >> * Bernie >> >> *From: *Ted Lemon *Date: *Saturday, July 15, >> 2017 at 6:36 AM *To: *Alexandre Petrescu >> *Cc: *Vízdal Aleš >> , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , >> Bernie Volz *Subject: *Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: >> draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix >> Delegation >> >> Alexandre, it appears to me that you are asking the DHC working >> group to make a change to the DHCPv6 spec in order to solve a >> problem you don't know exists in an IPv6 layer 2 implementation. >> I think that this is wrong-headed on two fronts. First, you are >> speculating that the problem exists. Find out whether the problem >> exists, don't speculate. Second, the problem is not in DHCP, if it >> does exist--it is in an IP implementation. So fix the >> implementation--don't ask for a change to the DHCP spec. >> >> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Alexandre Petrescu >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 14/07/2017 à 21:26, Vízdal Aleš a écrit : >> >> On 14 Jul 2017, at 21:15, Alexandre Petrescu >> > > wrote: >> >> Le 14/07/2017 à 20:35, Ted Lemon a écrit : So are the DHCP clients >> you are talking about setting the IP header hop count to 0/1, or >> the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That is, what is the >> behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it might >> cause a problem in this case? >> >> >> Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit >> field in the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) with value 1. >> >> This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular network >> encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further decapsulates. The >> encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some non-wireshark >> packet dump format, with fields like "TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This >> cellular network does not offer IPv4 access to end user, it only >> offers IPv6. >> >> There is no GTP RFC. >> >> >> GTP aka GPRS Tunnelling Protocol has been specified by 3GPP. >> >> It starts at the eNodeB and terminates at the PGW where the DHCP >> server/relay would sit. >> >> >> You see, I am also told that my "MT" ("Mobile Terminal"?) >> terminates GTP. I guess both are possible (terminate some times at >> eNodeB and other times at MT). >> >> Or otherwise the expression "terminate at" may have different >> meanings to different people. >> >> There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". This RFC >> says that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. >> >> This raises a potential speculation that the network drops an >> incoming packet that has Hop Limit 1. >> >> It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not decrement >> the Hop Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In this case there >> is no problem with DHCP Solicit having Hop Limit 1. >> >> >> It shall keep the packet as-is, since it is not visible from >> user/data-plane point of view. >> >> >> I dont understand that. Not sure what you mean by user-data >> planes. >> >> The IP Hop Limit is in the IP header. Some IP tunnelling >> mechanisms do touch the Hop Limit of the encapsulated packet. Why >> would GTP be different than the other IP tunnelling mechanisms? >> >> I suggest a deep dive into 3GPP specs ... >> >> >> It is certainly advantageous to understand the 3GPP specs. >> >> But I'd rather consider putting that into an Internet Draft. >> >> Alex >> >> Alex >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Petrescu >> > >> > >> wrote: Le 13/07/2017 à >> 23:14, Ted Lemon a écrit : On Jul 13, 2017 16:01, "Alexandre >> Petrescu" > >> > > >> > >> > >>> wrote: My oppinion is to >> make DHCP spec Hop Limit > 1. In order to make sure that the >> encap/decap of DHCP Solicit in IPv4 GTP happening on a cellular >> link does not drop it to 0 upon decap. If a link local sourced >> multicast with a hop limit of one is dropped between sender and >> receiver, ip is broken on that link, ne c'est pas? If that link is >> a real link then yes - ip is broken on that link. But if the link >> is a virtual link - like when on a tunnel - then it may be that >> tunnel works or no. Alex >> >> >> _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg >> >> >> Zásady komunikace, které společnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. >> užívá při sjednávání smluv, jsou uvedeny >> zde. >> >> >> >> Není-li v zásadách uvedeno jinak, nepředstavuje tato zpráva >> konečný >> >> návrh na uzavření či změnu smlouvy ani přijetí takového návrhu. The >> communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies >> when negotiating contracts are defined >> here. >> >> >> >> Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not >> >> constitute the final offer to contract or an amendment of a >> contract or acceptance of such offer. >> From nobody Mon Jul 17 14:12:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E27E131C0A for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:12:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, 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<37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> From: Ted Lemon Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:17:14 +0200 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082381440d1f25055493273b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:18:01 -0000 --089e082381440d1f25055493273b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe what Alexandre was proposing was not that we re-cast 3gpp specs as RFCs, but rather that we add text to 3315bis that explicitly says what hop limit to use, and that the hop-limit should be what I would describe as "incorrect."=E2=80=8B I realize that this is a somewhat judgmental way of describing it, but I don't know a different way. If in fact the 3GPP architecture requires this, that's a bug, and it's not clear to me that RFC3315 is the right place to address that bug. But I'd really like for us to try to figure out whether this is in fact a bug, or whether it's just an artifact of the way that the ISC DHCP client is transmitting DHCP packets, which can be addressed by fixing that, rather than by updating RFC3315 to require behavior that is effectively a violation of the internet architecture. --089e082381440d1f25055493273b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe what Alexandre was proposing was not that we re-= cast 3gpp specs as RFCs, but rather that we add text to 3315bis that explic= itly says what hop limit to use, and that the hop-limit should be what I wo= uld describe as "incorrect."=E2=80=8B =C2=A0 I realize that this = is a somewhat judgmental way of describing it, but I don't know a diffe= rent way. =C2=A0 If in fact the 3GPP architecture requires this, that's= a bug, and it's not clear to me that RFC3315 is the right place to add= ress that bug.

But I'd really like for us to try to = figure out whether this is in fact a bug, or whether it's just an artif= act of the way that the ISC DHCP client is transmitting DHCP packets, which= can be addressed by fixing that, rather than by updating RFC3315 to requir= e behavior that is effectively a violation of the internet architecture.
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[dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS/M+G8BPWcnoA8ku2dlH89fUEWaJThLcAgAALPQCAACR7y///5TaAgATz+PCAAJPCAIAAIoKA Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:40:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, cs-CZ, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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10.99.114.82 with SMTP id c18mr642251pgn.32.1500368075945; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:54:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:53:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> From: Ted Lemon Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:53:55 +0200 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c77243309c4055493aab1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:54:44 -0000 --f403045c77243309c4055493aab1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the issue here is not that it's not clear what should be happening, but rather that Alexendre has observed bad behavior in the wild. So it is worth getting to the bottom of the bad behavior. I have no argument with that. I'm just saying that once we have characterized the bad behavior, if it is a bug in the implementation, that should be fixed, and if it were a bug in the tunneling specification (which you are saying it is not) we would want to fix that. But what we definitely would not want to do is require behavior that's contrary to the internet architecture in 3315bis in order to paper over a bug that isn't a bug in DHCP. On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:40 AM, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 wrote: > I believe it is not a bug / problem, since the IP-link between the UE > (handset) in the Mobile Network and the first L3 hop (GGSN/PGW or Mobile > Core if you will) is a virtual-link. There are intermediate nodes between > the UE and GGSN, but these are not touching the UE originated packets nor > do any TTL / hop-limit changes since all IP forwarding is done based on G= TP > (or IPSec, since in some networks this traffic is secured by IPSec) > > > > The GGSN/PGW usually acts as a DHCP server or a relay, so a DHCP packet > with a TTL=3D1 / hop-limit=3D1 will reach it. > > > > Does it clarify? > > > > Ales > > > > *From:* Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:17 AM > *To:* V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu ; dhcwg < > dhcwg@ietf.org>; Bernie Volz (volz) > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - > questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation > > > > I believe what Alexandre was proposing was not that we re-cast 3gpp specs > as RFCs, but rather that we add text to 3315bis that explicitly says what > hop limit to use, and that the hop-limit should be what I would describe = as > "incorrect."=E2=80=8B I realize that this is a somewhat judgmental way = of > describing it, but I don't know a different way. If in fact the 3GPP > architecture requires this, that's a bug, and it's not clear to me that > RFC3315 is the right place to address that bug. > > > > But I'd really like for us to try to figure out whether this is in fact a > bug, or whether it's just an artifact of the way that the ISC DHCP client > is transmitting DHCP packets, which can be addressed by fixing that, rath= er > than by updating RFC3315 to require behavior that is effectively a > violation of the internet architecture. > > *Z=C3=A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republ= ic a.s. u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 > p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uvedeny **zde* > *. > Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, nep=C5=99edstavuje tato = zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD n=C3=A1vrh > na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8Di zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet=C3=AD ta= kov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu.* *The > communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when > negotiating contracts are defined **here* > *. > Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not constitu= te > the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract or acceptance o= f > such offer.* > --f403045c77243309c4055493aab1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think the issue here is not that it's not clear what= should be happening, but rather that Alexendre has observed bad behavior i= n the wild. =C2=A0 So it is worth getting to the bottom of the bad behavior= . =C2=A0 I have no argument with that. =C2=A0 I'm just saying that once= we have characterized the bad behavior, if it is a bug in the implementati= on, that should be fixed, and if it were a bug in the tunneling specificati= on (which you are saying it is not) we would want to fix that.

But what we definitely would not want to do is require behavior that= 's contrary to the internet architecture in 3315bis in order to paper o= ver a bug that isn't a bug in DHCP.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:40 AM, V=C3=AD= zdal Ale=C5=A1 <ales.vizdal@t-mobile.cz> wrote:

I believe it is not a bug / problem, = since the IP-link between the UE (handset) in the Mobile Network and the fi= rst L3 hop (GGSN/PGW or Mobile Core if you will) is a virtual-link. There are intermediate node= s between the UE and GGSN, but these are not touching the UE originated pac= kets nor do any TTL / hop-limit changes since all IP forwarding is done bas= ed on GTP (or IPSec, since in some networks this traffic is secured by IPSec)

=C2=A0

The GGSN/PGW usually acts as a DHCP s= erver or a relay, so a DHCP packet with a TTL=3D1 / hop-limit=3D1 will reac= h it.

=C2=A0

Does it clarify?=

=C2=A0

Ales

=C2=A0

From: = Ted Lemon [mailto:mel= lon@fugue.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:17 AM
To: V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 <ales.vizdal@t-mobile.cz>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; dhcwg &= lt;dhcwg@ietf.org&g= t;; Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.t= xt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation<= /p>

=C2=A0

I believe what Alexandre was proposing was not that = we re-cast 3gpp specs as RFCs, but rather that we add text to 3315bis that = explicitly says what hop limit to use, and that the hop-limit should be wha= t I would describe as "incorrect."=E2=80=8B =C2=A0 I realize that this is a somewhat judgmental way of describing it, = but I don't know a different way. =C2=A0 If in fact the 3GPP architectu= re requires this, that's a bug, and it's not clear to me that RFC33= 15 is the right place to address that bug.

=C2=A0

But I'd really like for us to try to figure out = whether this is in fact a bug, or whether it's just an artifact of the = way that the ISC DHCP client is transmitting DHCP packets, which can be add= ressed by fixing that, rather than by updating RFC3315 to require behavior that is effectively a violation of the interne= t architecture.


Z=C3= =A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s.= u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uveden= y zde. Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, ne= p=C5=99edstavuje tato zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD n=C3=A1vrh na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8D= i zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet=C3=AD takov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu. The communication principles whi= ch T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when negotiating contracts are defi= ned here. Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not constitute the final offer to contract or an amendme= nt of a contract or acceptance of such offer.


--f403045c77243309c4055493aab1-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:01:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38745131DB8 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=t-mobile.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id apa0kMpOOt7V for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz (ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz [93.153.104.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53199131A6E for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:00:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Hostname: ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 ctxmailhub.t-mobile.cz EC0F22E2627 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=t-mobile.cz; s=dkim2016; t=1500368452; bh=z6krlkvc29j07X72S7juZRbilf3qRWYUPNalNmn4sn8=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=q+IdgOUONjDb6ku6Sem8jHMULvEoA645LDZuut44VJPqQx3yeusd57CyOGscD9m5g Hv1XJ7FL+UjL2816R46pFC1MBt/06XvT93rNjU7ZlxXw6cohODZNE07hyAtmFzXR3F gqH0Zj3KJyXas97GcQOL+Dax2+FDpUAbz4IWADzxpdLxkN0jPmnd0FV0QJ01dxVIEv V9n1ca/M7ycpZUsvpAcyymx81Xll+ePXjmGwXa2URCRHMRQQxiawV8ST2dto2llLwT mKuXJXXXPHQNnfgemlYAwhY/Vw50RKoTdfzxHMW5W128brWB2AUADDGF840eUHiMLt yGYCdoOT+QDqA== From: =?utf-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= To: Ted Lemon CC: Alexandre Petrescu , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Thread-Index: AQHS/M+G8BPWcnoA8ku2dlH89fUEWaJThLcAgAALPQCAACR7y///5TaAgATz+PCAAJPCAIAAIoKA///nvoCAACLbgA== Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:00:52 +0000 Message-ID: <28fcee88f7354927b521c822b50277c6@srvhk403.rdm.cz> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, cs-CZ, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted 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<28fcee88f7354927b521c822b50277c6@srvhk403.rdm.cz> From: Ted Lemon Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:07:34 +0200 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f40304374f50079995055493db0e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:08:18 -0000 --f40304374f50079995055493db0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the ISC DHCP client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the way the ISC DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and not a problem with the tunneling protocol. It would be nice to validate that conjecture. On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 11:00 AM, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 wrote: > Alexandre=E2=80=99s email quoted below calls it =E2=80=98a speculation=E2= =80=99. There is no > problem to be solved here. > > > > > So are the DHCP clients you are talking about setting the IP header hop > > > count to 0/1, or the DHCP header hop-count field to 0/1? That is, wha= t > > > is the behavior you are concerned about, and why do you think it might > > > cause a problem in this case? > > > > Some clients I am talking about issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit field i= n > the IPv6 base header (not DHCP UDP header) with value 1. > > > > This Solicit is sent on a cellular network. The cellular network > encapsulates at some point in IPv4, and further decapsulates. The > encapsulation protocol is called "GTPU" by some non-wireshark packet dump > format, with fields like "TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MSG". This cellular network > does not offer IPv4 access to end user, it only offers IPv6. > > > > There is no GTP RFC. > > > > There is an RFC for "Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6". This RFC says > that encap/decap decrements the Hop Limit. > > > > This raises a potential speculation that the network drops an incoming > packet that has Hop Limit 1. > > > > It may be that the GTP encapsulation (no RFC) does not decrement the Hop > Limit of a packet-to-be-encapsulated. In this case there is no problem > with DHCP Solicit having Hop Limit 1. > > > > > > *From:* Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:54 AM > *To:* V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu ; dhcwg < > dhcwg@ietf.org>; Bernie Volz (volz) > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - > questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation > > > > I think the issue here is not that it's not clear what should be > happening, but rather that Alexendre has observed bad behavior in the wil= d. > So it is worth getting to the bottom of the bad behavior. I have no > argument with that. I'm just saying that once we have characterized the > bad behavior, if it is a bug in the implementation, that should be fixed, > and if it were a bug in the tunneling specification (which you are saying > it is not) we would want to fix that. > > > > But what we definitely would not want to do is require behavior that's > contrary to the internet architecture in 3315bis in order to paper over a > bug that isn't a bug in DHCP. > > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:40 AM, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 > wrote: > > I believe it is not a bug / problem, since the IP-link between the UE > (handset) in the Mobile Network and the first L3 hop (GGSN/PGW or Mobile > Core if you will) is a virtual-link. There are intermediate nodes between > the UE and GGSN, but these are not touching the UE originated packets nor > do any TTL / hop-limit changes since all IP forwarding is done based on G= TP > (or IPSec, since in some networks this traffic is secured by IPSec) > > > > The GGSN/PGW usually acts as a DHCP server or a relay, so a DHCP packet > with a TTL=3D1 / hop-limit=3D1 will reach it. > > > > Does it clarify? > > > > Ales > > > > *From:* Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:17 AM > *To:* V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 > *Cc:* Alexandre Petrescu ; dhcwg < > dhcwg@ietf.org>; Bernie Volz (volz) > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - > questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation > > > > I believe what Alexandre was proposing was not that we re-cast 3gpp specs > as RFCs, but rather that we add text to 3315bis that explicitly says what > hop limit to use, and that the hop-limit should be what I would describe = as > "incorrect."=E2=80=8B I realize that this is a somewhat judgmental way = of > describing it, but I don't know a different way. If in fact the 3GPP > architecture requires this, that's a bug, and it's not clear to me that > RFC3315 is the right place to address that bug. > > > > But I'd really like for us to try to figure out whether this is in fact a > bug, or whether it's just an artifact of the way that the ISC DHCP client > is transmitting DHCP packets, which can be addressed by fixing that, rath= er > than by updating RFC3315 to require behavior that is effectively a > violation of the internet architecture. > > > > *Z=C3=A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republ= ic a.s. u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 > p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uvedeny **zde* > *. > Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, nep=C5=99edstavuje tato = zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD n=C3=A1vrh > na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8Di zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet=C3=AD ta= kov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu.* *The > communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when > negotiating contracts are defined **here* > *. > Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not constitu= te > the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract or acceptance o= f > such offer.* > > > > *Z=C3=A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republ= ic a.s. u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 > p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uvedeny **zde* > *. > Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, nep=C5=99edstavuje tato = zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD n=C3=A1vrh > na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8Di zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet=C3=AD ta= kov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu.* *The > communication principles which T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when > negotiating contracts are defined **here* > *. > Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not constitu= te > the final offer to contract or an amendment of a contract or acceptance o= f > such offer.* > --f40304374f50079995055493db0e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
He later said that he'd observed this behavior when us= ing the ISC DHCP client. =C2=A0 My theory is that this is an artifact of th= e way the ISC DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and not a probl= em with the tunneling protocol. =C2=A0 It would be nice to validate that co= njecture.

On= Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 11:00 AM, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 <= ;ales.vizdal@t= -mobile.cz> wrote:

Alexandre=E2=80=99s email quoted belo= w calls it =E2=80=98a speculation=E2=80=99. There is no problem to be solve= d here.

=C2=A0

> So are the DHCP clients= you are talking about setting the IP header hop

> count to 0/1, or the DH= CP header hop-count field to 0/1?=C2=A0=C2=A0 That is, what

> is the behavior you are= concerned about, and why do you think it might

> cause a problem in this= case?

=C2=A0

Some clients I am talking ab= out issue DHCP Solicit with Hop Limit field in the IPv6 base header (not DH= CP UDP header) with value 1.

=C2=A0

This Solicit is sent on a ce= llular network.=C2=A0 The cellular network encapsulates at some point in IP= v4, and further decapsulates.=C2=A0 The encapsulation protocol is called &q= uot;GTPU" by some non-wireshark packet dump format, with fields like &= quot;TEID", "GTP_TPDU_MSG".=C2=A0 This cellular network does not offer IPv4 = access to end user, it only offers IPv6.

=C2=A0

There is no GTP RFC.<= u>

=C2=A0

There is an RFC for &= quot;Generic Packet Tunnelling in IPv6".=C2=A0 This RFC says that enca= p/decap decrements the Hop Limit.

=C2=A0

This raises a potential spec= ulation that the network drops an incoming packet that has Hop Limit 1.<= /u>

=C2=A0

It may be that the GTP encap= sulation (no RFC) does not decrement the Hop Limit of a packet-to-be-encaps= ulated.=C2=A0 In this case there is no problem with DHCP Solicit having Hop= Limit 1.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = Ted Lemon [mailto:mel= lon@fugue.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:54 AM
To: V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 <ales.vizdal@t-mobile.cz>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; dhcwg &= lt;dhcwg@ietf.org&g= t;; Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.t= xt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation<= /p>

=C2=A0

I think the issue here is not that it's not clea= r what should be happening, but rather that Alexendre has observed bad beha= vior in the wild. =C2=A0 So it is worth getting to the bottom of the bad be= havior. =C2=A0 I have no argument with that. =C2=A0 I'm just saying that once we have characterized the bad behavior, if it is a b= ug in the implementation, that should be fixed, and if it were a bug in the= tunneling specification (which you are saying it is not) we would want to = fix that.

=C2=A0

But what we definitely would not want to do is requi= re behavior that's contrary to the internet architecture in 3315bis in = order to paper over a bug that isn't a bug in DHCP.

=C2=A0

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:40 AM, V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5= =A1 <ales.v= izdal@t-mobile.cz> wrote:

I believe it is not a bug / problem, = since the IP-link between the UE (handset) in the Mobile Network and the first L3 hop (GGSN/PGW or Mobile Core if you will) is a virtual-li= nk. There are intermediate nodes between the UE and GGSN, but these are not= touching the UE originated packets nor do any TTL / hop-limit changes sinc= e all IP forwarding is done based on GTP (or IPSec, since in some networks this traffic is secured by IPSec)=

=C2=A0

The GGSN/PGW usually acts as a DHCP s= erver or a relay, so a DHCP packet with a TTL=3D1 / hop-limit=3D1 will reach it.

=C2=A0

Does it clarify?=

=C2=A0

Ales

=C2=A0

From: = Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon= @fugue.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:17 AM
To: V=C3=ADzdal Ale=C5=A1 <ales.vizdal@t-mobile.cz>
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; dhcwg &= lt;dhcwg@ietf.org&g= t;; Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.t= xt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation

=C2=A0

I believe what Alexandre was proposing was not that = we re-cast 3gpp specs as RFCs, but rather that we add text to 3315bis that = explicitly says what hop limit to use, and that the hop-limit should be what I would describe as "incorrect."=E2=80= =8B =C2=A0 I realize that this is a somewhat judgmental way of describing i= t, but I don't know a different way. =C2=A0 If in fact the 3GPP archite= cture requires this, that's a bug, and it's not clear to me that RFC3315 is the right place to address that bug.

=C2=A0

But I'd really like for us to try to figure out = whether this is in fact a bug, or whether it's just an artifact of the = way that the ISC DHCP client is transmitting DHCP packets, which can be addressed by fixing that, rather than by updating RFC3315 to = require behavior that is effectively a violation of the internet architectu= re.

=C2=A0

Z=C3= =A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s.= u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uveden= y zde. Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, nep=C5=99edstavuje tato zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD n=C3=A1vrh na= uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8Di zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet=C3=AD takov= =C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu. The communication principles whi= ch T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when negotiating contracts are defi= ned here. Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not constitute the final offer= to contract or an amendment of a contract or acceptance of such offer.

=C2=A0


Z=C3= =A1sady komunikace, kter=C3=A9 spole=C4=8Dnost T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s.= u=C5=BE=C3=ADv=C3=A1 p=C5=99i sjedn=C3=A1v=C3=A1n=C3=AD smluv, jsou uveden= y zde. Nen=C3=AD-li v z=C3=A1sad=C3=A1ch uvedeno jinak, ne= p=C5=99edstavuje tato zpr=C3=A1va kone=C4=8Dn=C3=BD n=C3=A1vrh na uzav=C5=99en=C3=AD =C4=8D= i zm=C4=9Bnu smlouvy ani p=C5=99ijet=C3=AD takov=C3=A9ho n=C3=A1vrhu. The communication principles whi= ch T-Mobile Czech Republic a.s. applies when negotiating contracts are defi= ned here. Unless otherwise stated in the principles, this message does not constitute the final offer to contract or an amendme= nt of a contract or acceptance of such offer.


--f40304374f50079995055493db0e-- From nobody Wed Jul 19 02:02:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F04131C21 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:02:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20MFCkkfjqmf for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [149.20.64.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A40E12ECC0 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zmx1.isc.org (zmx1.isc.org [149.20.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42058349410 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:02:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmx1.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FF12160035 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:02:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1A7160053 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:02:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmx1.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zmx1.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id yUIguaZ7NYUZ for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:02:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [31.133.156.181] (dhcp-9cb5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.181]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92185160035 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:02:27 +0000 (UTC) From: =?UTF-8?Q?W=c5=82odzimierz_Wencel?= To: dhcwg@ietf.org Message-ID: <5e618d45-5290-69e1-5c2d-e94de0c69e19@isc.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:02:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------89BA981E02ECFED519ECEC51" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] draft-moses-dmm-dhcp-ondemand-mobility - minor comments. X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:02:32 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------89BA981E02ECFED519ECEC51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are two minor issues in the draft. 1. in section 3 and section 4 usage of status code NoAddrsAvail should be replaced with NoPrefixAvail 2. Anchor Preference Option should be formatted as IA Prefix Option (3315= ): - valid-lifetime value is missing - ip6-prefix should have fixed length to keep it easy to parse instead of: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | OPTION_ANCHOR_PREFERENCE | option-length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | preferred-lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | prefix6len | ipv6-prefix | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (variable length) | . . |-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | IAanchor_preference-options | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ should be: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | OPTION_ANCHOR_PREFERENCE | option-length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | preferred-lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | valid-lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=20 | prefix6len | ipv6-prefix | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (16 octets) | . . |-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | IAanchor_preference-options | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Thanks, W=C5=82odek Wencel ISC --------------89BA981E02ECFED519ECEC51 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are two minor issues in the draft.

1. in section 3 and section 4 usage of status code NoAddrsAvail should be replaced with NoPrefixAvail

2. Anchor Preference Option should be formatted as IA Prefix Option (3315):
- valid-lifetime value is missing
- ip6-prefix should have fixed length to keep it easy to parse
instead of:
    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   | OPTION_ANCHOR_PREFERENCE      |         option-length         |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                      preferred-lifetime                       |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   | prefix6len    |          ipv6-prefix                          |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+       (variable length)                       |
   .                                                               .
   |-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                  IAanchor_preference-options                  |
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
should be:

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   | OPTION_ANCHOR_PREFERENCE      |         option-length         |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                      preferred-lifetime                       |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                        valid-lifetime                         |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=20
   | prefix6len    |          ipv6-prefix                          |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+          (16 octets)                          |
   .                                                               .
   |-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                  IAanchor_preference-options                  |
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Thanks,
W=C5=82odek Wencel
ISC
--------------89BA981E02ECFED519ECEC51-- From nobody Wed Jul 19 02:10:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3C1131C3B for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:10:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2DPZE4ZTeF6 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FB3D12ECC0 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6J9AQ8H019198; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:10:26 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3442A2066CE; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:10:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DE13200F37; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:10:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.51] ([132.166.84.51]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6J9APgX026539; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:10:25 +0200 To: Ted Lemon , =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> <28fcee88f7354927b521c822b50277c6@srvhk403.rdm.cz> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <56aee165-9dd3-7633-a3bb-9d62b469b48a@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:10:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:10:33 -0000 Ted, Let me explain. I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis. Sorry for the intrusion. Le 18/07/2017 à 11:07, Ted Lemon a écrit : > He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the ISC > DHCP client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the way the > ISC DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and not a problem > with the tunneling protocol. It would be nice to validate that > conjecture. We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves many people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly. Now I prefer to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about. Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit had hoplimit 1. It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody's fault. This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work. I am sorry for the confusion this may have created. Alex From nobody Wed Jul 19 02:53:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533F1131C5E for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:53:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NO68bDj9s6AR for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22b.google.com (mail-pf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 462D5126C0F for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id o88so18666992pfk.3 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:53:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HOi6LX73NbmkhvU6VaiaMoODmo6GMCXnv0ByD54ABdc=; b=Qkos71/BxnopM9RthjWk2WT88W0/ERanPNZCHFQ75m7g8rcxcj20w84TKMp2EQCT4z Uv9Ui0nu9/Q1pqsjUDlG5uXiFY15+76XBh4eLlEHva/amtxOWtbcukOyYj8WZZFomad+ 8QrYjaLDiFIgqjbknsMvBR9KClUZRBZwuE//IBvi2NRFriF+Af6vV+l9OYnHa/pccHNb TJfQ8AsTrNjU7bTk+57SChQeI0N0T6iZrPa9EmEysOrBd9NXj4TGlcT4GBxqL0bz9SML a8hkg29kHlSi/lCpuwUwveTlef6ipVGPkVFwWSYkjulbhVcn0Wn4CAqdzBw1z2Ap22CC 26lg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HOi6LX73NbmkhvU6VaiaMoODmo6GMCXnv0ByD54ABdc=; b=KzKc3ST3Ppdzhj6KDXrMC8A+nf++9gcda9ih2rMv+EOjupU4OeKKwBtzZqThWyXQ+g 6QNvvRtonPygIXpfZE6MjHUqwo4DPl0Z6P6sSVhDPTi0z0j0nEREoL8nVbaKKM5a4jkk IunGVW+1ws/MY37bm4EaSTlagQyXVWix8SoBM6TUloWRRYbf7mJ+UdNMI7MEa0XGsDcV WU2kWLXoNlw/IBW4T7Jv/HCkE1EdGVeoCYBbvophj/iThRfdCTtOmVR3gITc91lXY49T P5v7Rm+dARrpQ0JHrPifr4vlpcJygvdIkSpXC8mv2vl/l+RS42RbMdosXbHhFqICT6BF BmZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112GRi5I2ItvlJi0dE77VZi2aCUjtxGJbWzqQqk9NKhfM8i2GXnv ycZv5u0chivvbJliD0kamCe1kI56hKbC X-Received: by 10.98.10.68 with SMTP id s65mr2173472pfi.55.1500457995894; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:53:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.42 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:52:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <56aee165-9dd3-7633-a3bb-9d62b469b48a@gmail.com> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> <28fcee88f7354927b521c822b50277c6@srvhk403.rdm.cz> <56aee165-9dd3-7633-a3bb-9d62b469b48a@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:52:35 +0200 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11459fbad8c1aa0554a899bf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:53:17 -0000 --001a11459fbad8c1aa0554a899bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No worries. Have you tried compiling with USE_SOCKETS? Does that produce the same result? On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Ted, > > Let me explain. I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis. Sorry > for the intrusion. > > Le 18/07/2017 =C3=A0 11:07, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : > >> He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the ISC DHCP >> client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the way the ISC DHCP >> client transmits packets on the network, and not a problem with the >> tunneling protocol. It would be nice to validate that conjecture. >> > > We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves many > people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly. Now I prefer > to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about. > > Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show > encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit had > hoplimit 1. It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody's faul= t. > > This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work. > > I am sorry for the confusion this may have created. > > Alex > --001a11459fbad8c1aa0554a899bf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No worries. =C2=A0 Have you tried compiling with USE_SOCKE= TS? =C2=A0 Does that produce the same result?

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Alexand= re Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:=
Ted,

Let me explain.=C2=A0 I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis.=C2= =A0 Sorry
for the intrusion.

Le 18/07/2017 =C3=A0 11:07, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit :
He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the ISC DHCP = client.=C2=A0 =C2=A0My theory is that this is an artifact of the way the IS= C DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and not a problem with the = tunneling protocol.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It would be nice to validate that conjectur= e.

 We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves many people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly.=C2=A0 Now I prefe= r
to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about.

Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show
encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit had hoplimit 1.=C2=A0 It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody= 's fault.

This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work.
I am sorry for the confusion this may have created.

Alex

--001a11459fbad8c1aa0554a899bf-- From nobody Wed Jul 19 02:57:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2B7129AD1 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DSAR6FOyFWDg for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B90DB126C0F for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v6J9vonc036896; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:57:50 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 5ED912066CC; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:57:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C91D201313; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:57:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.51] ([132.166.84.51]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v6J9vn6q005201; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:57:50 +0200 To: Ted Lemon Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VsOtemRhbCBBbGXFoQ==?= , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <5fdc7054-7012-30ee-dec7-618f3cd3646f@gmail.com> <6f811cd2-61f1-05c2-1ede-b6933fa1dbb3@gmail.com> <0ea332fc-79a0-4ae9-50fc-465f2389157a@gmail.com> <243e84a0-2804-d1a3-2d9d-4969c83e81df@gmail.com> <6606c293c34d405e8153273a4bdeb357@srvhk403.rdm.cz> <28fcee88f7354927b521c822b50277c6@srvhk403.rdm.cz> <56aee165-9dd3-7633-a3bb-9d62b469b48a@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:57:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:57:56 -0000 Le 19/07/2017 à 11:52, Ted Lemon a écrit : > No worries. Have you tried compiling with USE_SOCKETS? Does that > produce the same result? Yes and results are different but still not satisfactorily overall. (FWIW #define USE_SOCKETS 1 goes in build/includes/config.h) Alex > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > Ted, > > Let me explain. I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis. Sorry > for the intrusion. > > Le 18/07/2017 à 11:07, Ted Lemon a écrit : > > He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the > ISC DHCP client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the > way the ISC DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and > not a problem with the tunneling protocol. It would be nice to > validate that conjecture. > > > We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves many > people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly. Now I prefer > to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about. > > Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show > encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit had > hoplimit 1. It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody's > fault. > > This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work. > > I am sorry for the confusion this may have created. > > Alex > > From nobody Wed Jul 19 03:42:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE21131C82 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:42:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QjOcovF5d9cM for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0257131C77 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6JAQ8Wx034118 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 12:26:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201707191026.v6JAQ8Wx034118@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: dhcwg@ietf.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 12:26:08 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] about draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-02.txt X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:42:44 -0000 I red draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-02.txt (it is in the agenda this afternnon) and I found two loose references to RFC 7296 (IKEv2) section 3.6 (CERT payload). I have two concerns about this: - certificates can be very large, at least larger than a DHCPv4 option can carry - as IKEv2 is over UDP too this problem is addressed in RFC 7296 by allowing many different "encodings" (currently 15 in the IANA registry). So I am afraid authors just took a good text about certificate transport (BTW I'd pick the same one so my concern is not about the choice) but missed to add an additional statement about application. I propose: - add something about the encoding byte so nobody will forget to read RFC 7296 and for instance put a X.509 certificate as the whole content - make a few encodings mandatory to support (*) Thanks Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS (*): if it makes sense in environments where LWM2M is/will be deployed I highly recommend the hash and URL formats. BTW they were introduced in IKEv2 so in RFC 7296 a notify was added to indicate support. This is no necessary for this I-D and of course it avoids large payload problems (it was designed with this goal). From nobody Thu Jul 20 05:08:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A92131C1A; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 05:08:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ralf Weber To: Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.57.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150055249283.9589.17482424577250077220@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 05:08:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-05 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:08:13 -0000 Reviewer: Ralf Weber Review result: Ready with Nits Moin! I reviewed this document and I'm good with it. The only minor purely cosmetic note is that it took me some time to understand why you record the port for the IPv6 relay chain. According to a discussion I had with Bernie that is to be able to have the agent stateless. Maybe add that to the motivation why you store it in the packet at the end of section 4 (, to allow stateless operation in a relay chain) So long -Ralf From nobody Thu Jul 20 21:23:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B2B1294A2; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 21:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com 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15.00.1210.000; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:24:50 -0500 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ralf Weber CC: "int-dir@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port.all@ietf.org" , "Enke Chen (enkechen)" Thread-Topic: Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-05 Thread-Index: AQHTAVDdC/pmVM+g8UmmGrJI4+prW6JeA2gAgAJsn4A= Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 17:24:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150055249283.9589.17482424577250077220@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.58.222] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_005_A5E26208902E41019542B5896342396Eciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-05 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 17:24:57 -0000 --_005_A5E26208902E41019542B5896342396Eciscocom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A5E26208902E41019542B5896342396Eciscocom_" --_000_A5E26208902E41019542B5896342396Eciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Changed again of the paragraph in section 4 to below, thanks to Ted who offerred the text: Relay agents do not maintain state. To return a message to its source, the relay agent must include all the required information in the Relay-Forward message. When a relay in a sequence of cascaded relays does not use the standard source port, that source port must be included along with the source address. This option allows the relay agent to do so. rfcdiff attached. Cheers, - Naiming --_000_A5E26208902E41019542B5896342396Eciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9B99B8F66F3E3B458E0CD0CE50AB3A87@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Changed again of the paragraph in section 4 to below, thanks
to Ted who offerred the text:

&nbs= p;  Relay agents do not maintain state.  To return a message to i= ts
&nbs= p;  source, the relay agent must include all the required information = in
&nbs= p;  the Relay-Forward message.  When a relay in a sequence of cas= caded
&nbs= p;  relays does not use the standard source port, that source port mus= t
&nbs= p;  be included along with the source address.  This option allow= s the
&nbs= p;  relay agent to do so.

rfcdiff attached.

Cheers,
- Naiming

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spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03D1_01D30608.70AB35D0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jul 2017 06:42:26.1978 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB3017 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SeUhUURTGufMWn9LQa9I8WJJNCipqboGZhAalEEIEhQukY16XckaZZ6YS oWgqmmiipmO4gJlaisuQZSBpWpmRjjHhSjpqo1bmQkqm1cy8F/Tf75zvu9/hHC5DSAYoGyZe kYyVClmClLYgK0O6wlztfFND3cf1Ep/pvGzkoyt/RvmLglbKdqig+vqfovOiMAu/aJwQn4KV x05FWsTtjmyjpLZ2lDq32ENloMkylI/MGWC9Yaz6nYEtGAnbjyB3qMKML94g+JHfTRsLki0k YKmmiOYVlQjUpRmCTY9APVpNGMNo1h/KyxdoI1uykdA0nmlm5P2sC7TeySX5viv0br4X2BOW N/MoI5OsA2jb7pn6YsPb5plVE0vYEzDTmGnymLO+sLW7bpqF2AOw9faxyMgEaw0T8zUifiFL 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comments. Please see my response inline prefixed with [Srinivas] I red draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-02.txt (it is in the agenda this afternnon) and I found two loose references to RFC 7296 (IKEv2) section 3.6 (CERT payload). I have two concerns about this: - certificates can be very large, at least larger than a DHCPv4 option can carry [Srinivas] We already have an RFC that talks about encoding larger content in DHCPv4 option. So, I mentioned following in section 4. "Maximum possible value of DHCPv4 "option-len" is 255. LWM2M-server-certificate MAY be of length more than 255. To accommodate larger certificate, DHCP server SHOULD follow encoding as mentioned in [RFC3396]." - as IKEv2 is over UDP too this problem is addressed in RFC 7296 by allowing many different "encodings" (currently 15 in the IANA registry). So I am afraid authors just took a good text about certificate transport (BTW I'd pick the same one so my concern is not about the choice) but missed to add an additional statement about application. I propose: - add something about the encoding byte so nobody will forget to read RFC 7296 and for instance put a X.509 certificate as the whole content [Srinivas] I need a bit more clarity on this comment. Encoding byte is explained in RFC 7296. It will be same even if we explain in our draft. Is that ok to repeat details of "cert encoding" byte of section 3.6, RFC7296? Or Do you say that option format defined in section 3.2 "DHCPv6 option for LWM2M server certificate" should include "cert encoding" byte and same should be explicitly explained in our draft? I see later makes more sense. - make a few encodings mandatory to support (*) [Srinivas] I will check what formats/encodings make more sense in LWM2M deployments and I will add them as mandatory list in next version of draft. Thanks Srinivas -----Original Message----- From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of dhcwg-request@ietf.org Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:13 PM To: dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: dhcwg Digest, Vol 159, Issue 22 Send dhcwg mailing list submissions to dhcwg@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to dhcwg-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at dhcwg-owner@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of dhcwg digest..." Today's Topics: 1. draft-moses-dmm-dhcp-ondemand-mobility - minor comments. (W?odzimierz Wencel) 2. Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation (Alexandre Petrescu) 3. Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation (Ted Lemon) 4. Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation (Alexandre Petrescu) 5. about draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-02.txt (Francis Dupont) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:02:23 +0200 From: W?odzimierz Wencel To: dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] draft-moses-dmm-dhcp-ondemand-mobility - minor comments. Message-ID: <5e618d45-5290-69e1-5c2d-e94de0c69e19@isc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" There are two minor issues in the draft. 1. in section 3 and section 4 usage of status code NoAddrsAvail should be replaced with NoPrefixAvail 2. Anchor Preference Option should be formatted as IA Prefix Option (3315): - valid-lifetime value is missing - ip6-prefix should have fixed length to keep it easy to parse instead of: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | OPTION_ANCHOR_PREFERENCE | option-length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | preferred-lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | prefix6len | ipv6-prefix | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (variable length) | . . |-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | IAanchor_preference-options | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ should be: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | OPTION_ANCHOR_PREFERENCE | option-length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | preferred-lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | valid-lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | prefix6len | ipv6-prefix | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (16 octets) | . . |-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | IAanchor_preference-options | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Thanks, W?odek Wencel ISC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:10:25 +0200 From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Ted Lemon , V?zdal Ale? Cc: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Message-ID: <56aee165-9dd3-7633-a3bb-9d62b469b48a@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Ted, Let me explain. I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis. Sorry for the intrusion. Le 18/07/2017 ? 11:07, Ted Lemon a ?crit : > He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the ISC > DHCP client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the way the > ISC DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and not a problem > with the tunneling protocol. It would be nice to validate that > conjecture. We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves many people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly. Now I prefer to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about. Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit had hoplimit 1. It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody's fault. This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work. I am sorry for the confusion this may have created. Alex ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:52:35 +0200 From: Ted Lemon To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: V?zdal Ale? , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" No worries. Have you tried compiling with USE_SOCKETS? Does that produce the same result? On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > Ted, > > Let me explain. I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis. > Sorry for the intrusion. > > Le 18/07/2017 ? 11:07, Ted Lemon a ?crit : > >> He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the ISC DHCP >> client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the way the ISC DHCP >> client transmits packets on the network, and not a problem with the >> tunneling protocol. It would be nice to validate that conjecture. >> > > We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves > many people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly. Now I > prefer to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about. > > Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show > encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit > had hoplimit 1. It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody's fault. > > This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work. > > I am sorry for the confusion this may have created. > > Alex > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:57:49 +0200 From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Ted Lemon Cc: V?zdal Ale? , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Le 19/07/2017 ? 11:52, Ted Lemon a ?crit : > No worries. Have you tried compiling with USE_SOCKETS? Does that > produce the same result? Yes and results are different but still not satisfactorily overall. (FWIW #define USE_SOCKETS 1 goes in build/includes/config.h) Alex > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > > Ted, > > Let me explain. I no longer have a request for the spec 3315bis. Sorry > for the intrusion. > > Le 18/07/2017 ? 11:07, Ted Lemon a ?crit : > > He later said that he'd observed this behavior when using the > ISC DHCP client. My theory is that this is an artifact of the > way the ISC DHCP client transmits packets on the network, and > not a problem with the tunneling protocol. It would be nice to > validate that conjecture. > > > We work on this conjencture, but it takes time, because it involves many > people, I am the only who speaks, and some times wrongly. Now I prefer > to stay silent until I get some resolution to talk about. > > Until then, all I can say is that I have packet dumps that show > encapsulation, and ICMP hoplimit exceeded, and that the DHCP Solicit had > hoplimit 1. It is however not clear whether or not that's anybody's > fault. > > This is not a matter of someone's fault; the goal is to make it work. > > I am sorry for the confusion this may have created. > > Alex > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 12:26:08 +0200 From: Francis Dupont To: dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [dhcwg] about draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-02.txt Message-ID: <201707191026.v6JAQ8Wx034118@givry.fdupont.fr> I red draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-02.txt (it is in the agenda this afternnon) and I found two loose references to RFC 7296 (IKEv2) section 3.6 (CERT payload). I have two concerns about this: - certificates can be very large, at least larger than a DHCPv4 option can carry - as IKEv2 is over UDP too this problem is addressed in RFC 7296 by allowing many different "encodings" (currently 15 in the IANA registry). So I am afraid authors just took a good text about certificate transport (BTW I'd pick the same one so my concern is not about the choice) but missed to add an additional statement about application. I propose: - add something about the encoding byte so nobody will forget to read RFC 7296 and for instance put a X.509 certificate as the whole content - make a few encodings mandatory to support (*) Thanks Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr PS (*): if it makes sense in environments where LWM2M is/will be deployed I highly recommend the hash and URL formats. BTW they were introduced in IKEv2 so in RFC 7296 a notify was added to indicate support. This is no necessary for this I-D and of course it avoids large payload problems (it was designed with this goal). ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg ------------------------------ End of dhcwg Digest, Vol 159, Issue 22 ************************************** ------=_NextPart_000_03D1_01D30608.70AB35D0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVajCCAyAw ggIIoAMCAQICAR0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTELMAkGA1UEBhMCRkkxDzANBgNVBAoTBlNvbmVy YTEZMBcGA1UEAxMQU29uZXJhIENsYXNzMiBDQTAeFw0wMTA0MDYwNzI5NDBaFw0yMTA0MDYwNzI5 NDBaMDkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkZJMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZTb25lcmExGTAXBgNVBAMTEFNvbmVyYSBDbGFz czIgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQCQF0o1ncrwDZbHRPoWN/xIvb1/ 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, New version uploaded followed by IETF-99 presentation and comments. Comments from Francis Dupont are handled. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03 With Regards Srinivas -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 10:00 PM To: Srinivasa Rao Nalluri; Srinivasa Rao Nalluri Subject: New Version Notification for draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03.txt A new version of I-D, draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Srinivas Rao Nalluri and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options Revision: 03 Title: DHCPv6 Options for LWM2M bootstrap information Document date: 2017-07-27 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-03 Abstract: This document defines Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) Options for LWM2M client bootstrap information, which are used to carry Uniform Resource Locater of LWM2M bootstrap server and certificate that validates the public key presented by server. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Z2luLWxlZnQ6MGluO21zby1saXN0OmwwIGxldmVsMSBsZm8xIj48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1z aXplOjExLjBwdCI+VG9tZWsgJmFtcDsgQmVybmllPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9saT48L3Vs Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_FC7AC5308EB44D219FA6EA89545118FBciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Jul 27 12:54:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A0C12EC1D for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nwZ9XUE4huoW for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 135981287A5 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 12:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6RJbVE4096463; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 21:37:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201707271937.v6RJbVE4096463@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Srinivasa Rao Nalluri cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 26 Jul 2017 06:42:26 -0000. Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 21:37:31 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] FW: dhcwg Digest, Vol 159, Issue 22 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:54:30 -0000 In your previous mail you wrote: > Thank you for review and comments. Please see my response inline prefixed > with [Srinivas] > > [Srinivas] We already have an RFC that talks about encoding larger content > in DHCPv4 option. So, I mentioned following in section 4. > "Maximum possible value of DHCPv4 "option-len" is 255. > LWM2M-server-certificate MAY be of length more than 255. To accommodate > larger > certificate, DHCP server SHOULD follow encoding as mentioned in > [RFC3396]." => IMHO it is not the best idea, i.e., in place of relying on a complex (and not very deployed) extension it is better to just encourage encodings which don't lead to large options. > - as IKEv2 is over UDP too this problem is addressed in RFC 7296 by > allowing many different "encodings" (currently 15 in the IANA > registry). > > So I am afraid authors just took a good text about certificate transport > (BTW I'd pick the same one so my concern is not about the choice) but missed > to add an additional statement about application. > > I propose: > - add something about the encoding byte so nobody will forget to read > RFC 7296 and for instance put a X.509 certificate as the whole content > [Srinivas] I need a bit more clarity on this comment. Encoding byte is > explained in RFC 7296. It will be same even if we explain in our draft. Is > that ok to repeat details of "cert encoding" byte of section 3.6, RFC7296? > Or > Do you say that option format defined in section 3.2 "DHCPv6 option for > LWM2M server certificate" should include "cert encoding" byte and same > should be explicitly explained in our draft? > I see later makes more sense. => IMHO it is enough to mention the encoding byte but of course the second solution (add the byte in the figure) is both simple and efficient so obviously the best. > - make a few encodings mandatory to support (*) > [Srinivas] I will check what formats/encodings make more sense in LWM2M > deployments and I will add them as mandatory list in next version of draft. => thanks Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From nobody Fri Jul 28 13:09:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC36131C26 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 13:09:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 28 Jul 2017 20:09:32 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6SK9WVC030600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:09:32 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 15:09:31 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 15:09:31 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" CC: Srinivasa Rao Nalluri Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption - draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options - Respond by Aug 10, 2017 Thread-Index: AQHTBv/bzGXecLao3Eaq6JadMRK5mqJpqeFA Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:09:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1f733a8108284c448667d49132b86555@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: 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required=5 tests=[RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T78V_FCKx5eF for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 05:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (givry.fdupont.fr [IPv6:2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEFE9124BAC for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 05:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6TBudID046497; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:56:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201707291156.v6TBudID046497@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 27 Jul 2017 17:43:28 -0000. Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:56:39 +0200 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Call for Adoption - draft-nalluri-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options - Respond by Aug 10, 2017 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 12:13:48 -0000 in favor Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr