From nobody Wed Nov 1 00:40:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E52713FAEE; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 00:40:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Zhen Cao To: Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.63.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150952203714.25993.17333137226492207681@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 00:40:37 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 07:40:37 -0000 Reviewer: Zhen Cao Review result: Ready with Issues I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for this draft. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the Internet Area Directors. Document editors and shepherds should treat these comments just like they would treat comments from any other IETF contributors and resolve them along with any other Last Call comments that have been received. For more details of the INT directorate, see . This version is quite ready to go, with a small issue that I would like to discussion: In Section. 15 (Reliability of Client Initiated Message Exchanges), I strongly recommend that implementation MUST NOT set both MRC or MRD to ZERO, which attaches a possible risk that the client continues to send this message without a stop. So I would like to propose the following change: s/ " If both MRC and MRD are zero, the client continues to transmit the message until it receives a response." / "The client must be informed with a limit of its retransmission behavior, and MUST NOT set both MRC and MRD to zero" -zhen From nobody Wed Nov 1 06:27:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC6313F87C; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 06:27:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SzlW7gHbgUyc; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 06:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D957713942F; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 06:27:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2227; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1509542836; x=1510752436; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=FUU2GCXSXhlfDSwfF7kRLUFw4wxQT5goZWOA4I9l0jc=; b=CCwad0F6rYYJ3vJeiJ+0fPRHgYlN5kCynMwl9yV6qN8gEm60KpYJy//k TxFTHP/v6UphElAjv2gTowpHvhVoqOTRiMWjXjnDSpMwLIO9THNpWqNdV NA0qLeAEo76EIAiK286ApT/2WL4dnSssD3kc28vUGxHQ3GpvTJJ8I0q7S I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CcAAB0yvlZ/4gNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgzEuZG4nB44VjxiBfJZEghEKGAuFGAKEfD8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FHQEBAQQBATg0CwwEAgEIEQQBAR8JBycLFAkIAgQBDQUIAYoaEKpmixABAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgy6CB4ZmgyKBSRBIhUQFogoClHGTOZVmAhEZAYE?= =?us-ascii?q?4AR84gWx6FUmCZAmEVncBik2BMgGBEAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,327,1505779200"; d="scan'208";a="24666129" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Nov 2017 13:27:15 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com (xch-aln-003.cisco.com [173.36.7.13]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vA1DRFOA023005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:27:15 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 08:27:14 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 08:27:14 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Zhen Cao , "int-dir@ietf.org" CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 Thread-Index: AQHTUuS5t0NJ+fIQ4E2BcQoavKk7AqL/glXQ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:27:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1cfea94b1690409595b243f014083bf1@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <150952203714.25993.17333137226492207681@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150952203714.25993.17333137226492207681@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.67.109] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:27:17 -0000 Hi Zhen: First, thanks for the Int-Dir review. Regarding your comment, the cases where both MRC and MRD are zero is for a = Solicit and Information-Request. And, for those particular cases, the clien= t should probably retransmit "forever" at a hopefully low rate (SOL_MAX_RT = and INF_MAX_RT are 3600 seconds*) to locate a DHCP server. This of course = depends on the RA M & O bits (indicating a DHCP server is available) or the= manual configuration of the client (to explicitly run DHCP). * - RFC 3315 used 120 seconds for these values, but that was updated by RFC= 7083. - Bernie -----Original Message----- From: Int-dir [mailto:int-dir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zhen Cao Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 3:41 AM To: int-dir@ietf.org Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis.all@ietf.org Subject: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 Reviewer: Zhen Cao Review result: Ready with Issues I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for this draft. These comments we= re written primarily for the benefit of the Internet Area Directors. Docume= nt editors and shepherds should treat these comments just like they would t= reat comments from any other IETF contributors and resolve them along with = any other Last Call comments that have been received. For more details of t= he INT directorate, see . This version is quite ready to go, with a small issue that I would like to discussion: In Section. 15 (Reliability of Client Initiated Message Exchanges), I stron= gly recommend that implementation MUST NOT set both MRC or MRD to ZERO, whi= ch attaches a possible risk that the client continues to send this message = without a stop. So I would like to propose the following change: s/ " If both MRC and MRD are zero, the client continues to transmit the message until it receives a response." / "The client must be informed with a limit of its retransmission behavior, a= nd MUST NOT set both MRC and MRD to zero" -zhen _______________________________________________ Int-dir mailing list Int-dir@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-dir From nobody Wed Nov 1 09:52:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0180413F662; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:52:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qyBTqDMHKLJW; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mail-out1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7424713F839; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.in.tum.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id 9E2F11C2A1E; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:52:10 +0100 (CET) Received: (Authenticated sender: ott) by mail.in.tum.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 747FB1C1350; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:52:06 +0100 (CET) (Extended-Queue-bit tech_aqhjx@fff.in.tum.de) From: Joerg Ott To: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@tools.ietf.org, tsv-art@ietf.org, "ietf@ietf.org" , dhcwg@ietf.org Message-ID: <28cf5d0f-091c-c917-a6ea-06a2262cd7fc@in.tum.de> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:52:06 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-06 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 16:52:16 -0000 Hi, I’ve reviewed this document as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's authors for their information and to allow them to address any issues raised. When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review together with any other last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. Jörg Summary: This draft is essentially ready. I do not see any transport-specific issues. Comments: It seems that in a few places, the document does not use RFC 2119 keywords where they could/should be used. For example, in the introduction paragraph to section 4 and in section 5.2 (right after the enumeration). Not sure if the non-use was intentional or an oversight. Nit: p.3: This is a standards track document, so the language could be stronger. OLD: This document proposes an extension to relax the fixed UDP source NEW: This document defines an extension to relax the fixed UDP source From nobody Wed Nov 1 20:30:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF4A13F843; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 20:30:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P06Rev-XI3NW; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 20:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x235.google.com (mail-vk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B751C13F418; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 20:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id x65so2735150vkx.1; Wed, 01 Nov 2017 20:30:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pXOw+4Uqi6ETPPK9U3k/sT7pL+6pMIiyLGqr93kd0m8=; b=O8C36P1lX6bZQ/SdyKS4y8punv7tpUr45DCC7nV5H5Lo4XaLUBQicIv2KgTq4PnHNt ZhcYJAx8QdX5IjmKB225BBX132TBcJ1IxtjNSEeBuQnsIcyJU8QTzXq99HRIk0rfA5Vi 6XKAosJxGrY1eW4btN/eXfqA7pBQ5Wbluht2Ffqr5+Qg8wjsuitZdFbneumx61L1o8hU XfydIcL5VTG2Ryg4R0w+UjDWBc/9T+1c1bOayPVu877QzKrW47ML+wDHUsA/OpNsqgr7 SCn+g0S3X5XPGrYUcCK6cjOAkHtxziS0vAcE1FSRrQZpuHDd8ZEiJfHyItvM0QD6tjiU rtPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pXOw+4Uqi6ETPPK9U3k/sT7pL+6pMIiyLGqr93kd0m8=; b=cSYtG6V+vUk1P4QS/Oz4mwnjK//w+kKgmpTibB9AfYDy0DTnj5r1JrdXVssaxtVf4W TGyvBZ4DNVoEg30nCTE+944Z6alGQBypB+E6hBbfoMgOYR3gp8/fAAFOT9I9KaPpXWYT kejLawPbG3oSU+wJmSwm4jnLvQ1PF4Gn3YLptR72XW9m8KwiNpez5rS7klVfsSqfmhzg ARdMDe1tbWCqbe7V9iB5GyT9hbh2FIEK0H1EzEF+0P6duy+C1SJ3kgyg0BMoA+pL1LrV 501SQrYeu4Xy/+b96RWxLO5xcaf5cg6h5JiirqqhPUScp+IYEMoF5ZHp1LYolsJu/56d LEsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVGyfihT1VwcPw+Lx23FBef64MOc7dBd6DnNzCOQGCe+D1afk/8 ypulp2YMnLjJWJR83HS+8eX/q81jiP1hKF3GmCA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+Th8aEdcDAh/sEokSu62Tg/rMOEz38CHmDIJV+yE+Fwzr3k8E6hZJS4eGANwN1/Krp43i3NChuRJLh9dRYLS4E= X-Received: by 10.31.70.133 with SMTP id t127mr1787975vka.100.1509593402646; Wed, 01 Nov 2017 20:30:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.84.143 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 20:30:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1cfea94b1690409595b243f014083bf1@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> References: <150952203714.25993.17333137226492207681@ietfa.amsl.com> <1cfea94b1690409595b243f014083bf1@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> From: Zhen Cao Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 11:30:02 +0800 Message-ID: To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: "int-dir@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 03:30:08 -0000 Hi Bernie, > First, thanks for the Int-Dir review. My pleasure as always. > > Regarding your comment, the cases where both MRC and MRD are zero is for = a Solicit and Information-Request. And, for those particular cases, the cli= ent should probably retransmit "forever" at a hopefully low rate (SOL_MAX_R= T and INF_MAX_RT are 3600 seconds*) to locate a DHCP server. This of cours= e depends on the RA M & O bits (indicating a DHCP server is available) or t= he manual configuration of the client (to explicitly run DHCP). Then depending on this information, it is up to you to see if there is a need of an affordable better description than the current text. Cheers, zhen > > * - RFC 3315 used 120 seconds for these values, but that was updated by R= FC 7083. > > - Bernie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-dir [mailto:int-dir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zhen Cao > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 3:41 AM > To: int-dir@ietf.org > Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis.all@ietf.org > Subject: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 > > Reviewer: Zhen Cao > Review result: Ready with Issues > > I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for this draft. These comments = were written primarily for the benefit of the Internet Area Directors. Docu= ment editors and shepherds should treat these comments just like they would= treat comments from any other IETF contributors and resolve them along wit= h any other Last Call comments that have been received. For more details of= the INT directorate, see . > > This version is quite ready to go, with a small issue that I would like t= o > discussion: > > In Section. 15 (Reliability of Client Initiated Message Exchanges), I str= ongly recommend that implementation MUST NOT set both MRC or MRD to ZERO, w= hich attaches a possible risk that the client continues to send this messag= e without > a stop. So I would like to propose the following change: > > s/ > " If both MRC and MRD are zero, the client continues to transmit the > message until it receives a response." > / > "The client must be informed with a limit of its retransmission behavior,= and MUST NOT set both MRC and MRD to zero" > > -zhen > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-dir mailing list > Int-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-dir From nobody Thu Nov 2 06:34:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5632913F65E; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 06:34:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q6OR5WG4Txg5; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 697781397F9; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4270; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1509629634; x=1510839234; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=V0AyTB2x4N1XrZ7RBQHl9kFtz7pvxGuXe19bySC3QWc=; b=VzaU4y487kNTOtCEuqkxQ0sxs0TkmTPOJ7pCLg6KGu/Pd0jWkevq/xp2 r6ugkw6eUIebTHg0XU4AKJepYeSOeBiiirGPcrRlpMoyMzCwsPNtxCuVc AXUuR/rE0mzPAR9dtcMkrsxuELVVmpJ2c+n1Zj+W0AWAI2g51SPTZ+zj8 Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CdAACCHftZ/5FdJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgwYuZG4nB4N2ih+PG4F8iFCNdYIRChgLhRgCGoQ0PxgBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQFrKIUdAQEBAwEBASEROgsFBwQCAQgRBAEBAwIjAwICAh8GCxQBCAgCBA4FC?= =?us-ascii?q?AGKAgMNCBCob4Inh0INg0gBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgQ+CH4IHhma?= =?us-ascii?q?CajiBSRAtgn6CYgWhUTwCkAGEcJM7jRqITwIRGQGBOAEfOIFsehVJgmQJglMcg?= =?us-ascii?q?Wd3AYp/gTKBEQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,334,1505779200"; d="scan'208";a="25187865" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 Nov 2017 13:33:53 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vA2DXrCu032058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:33:53 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 08:33:52 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 08:33:52 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Zhen Cao CC: "int-dir@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 Thread-Index: AQHTUuS5t0NJ+fIQ4E2BcQoavKk7AqL/glXQgAFBbwCAAFPdUA== Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 13:33:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150952203714.25993.17333137226492207681@ietfa.amsl.com> <1cfea94b1690409595b243f014083bf1@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.197] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-10 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:34:06 -0000 SGk6DQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyB0ZXh0IGlzIGZpbmUgYXMgaXMuIEl0IGlzIGFsc28gdGV4dCB0 aGF0IHdhcyBtb3ZlZCBmcm9tIFJGQyAzMzE1IChsYXN0IHBhcmFncmFwaCBvZiBTZWN0aW9uIDE0 KSBhbmQgaGFzIGNhdXNlZCBubyBpc3N1ZXMgKHdlbGwsIGl0IGRpZCByZXN1bHQgaW4gUkZDNzA4 MyB0byBjaGFuZ2UgU09MX01BWF9SVCBhbmQgSU5GX01BWF9SVCBkZWZhdWx0cyB0byByZWR1Y2Ug dGhlIGZyZXF1ZW5jeSBvZiByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbnMgLS0gc28gcGVyaGFwcyB3ZSBjYW4gY29u c2lkZXIgdGhhdCB0byBoYXZlIGFkZHJlc3NlZCB0aGUgaXNzdWU/KS4NCg0KLSBCZXJuaWUNCg0K LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFpoZW4gQ2FvIFttYWlsdG86emhlbmNh by5pZXRmQGdtYWlsLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIE5vdmVtYmVyIDAxLCAyMDE3IDEx OjMwIFBNDQpUbzogQmVybmllIFZvbHogKHZvbHopIDx2b2x6QGNpc2NvLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBpbnQt ZGlyQGlldGYub3JnOyBkaGN3Z0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgaWV0ZkBpZXRmLm9yZzsgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1k aGMtcmZjMzMxNWJpcy5hbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbSW50LWRpcl0gSW50ZGly IGVhcmx5IHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRoYy1yZmMzMzE1YmlzLTEwDQoNCkhpIEJlcm5p ZSwNCg0KPiBGaXJzdCwgdGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgSW50LURpciByZXZpZXcuDQpNeSBwbGVhc3Vy ZSBhcyBhbHdheXMuDQoNCj4NCj4gUmVnYXJkaW5nIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudCwgdGhlIGNhc2VzIHdo ZXJlIGJvdGggTVJDIGFuZCBNUkQgYXJlIHplcm8gaXMgZm9yIGEgU29saWNpdCBhbmQgSW5mb3Jt YXRpb24tUmVxdWVzdC4gQW5kLCBmb3IgdGhvc2UgcGFydGljdWxhciBjYXNlcywgdGhlIGNsaWVu dCBzaG91bGQgcHJvYmFibHkgcmV0cmFuc21pdCAiZm9yZXZlciIgYXQgYSBob3BlZnVsbHkgbG93 IHJhdGUgKFNPTF9NQVhfUlQgYW5kIElORl9NQVhfUlQgYXJlIDM2MDAgc2Vjb25kcyopIHRvIGxv Y2F0ZSBhICBESENQIHNlcnZlci4gVGhpcyBvZiBjb3Vyc2UgZGVwZW5kcyBvbiB0aGUgUkEgTSAm IE8gYml0cyAoaW5kaWNhdGluZyBhIERIQ1Agc2VydmVyIGlzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSkgb3IgdGhlIG1h bnVhbCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgKHRvIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgcnVuIERIQ1Ap Lg0KDQpUaGVuIGRlcGVuZGluZyBvbiB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBpdCBpcyB1cCB0byB5b3Ug dG8gc2VlIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgbmVlZCBvZiBhbiBhZmZvcmRhYmxlIGJldHRlciBkZXNjcmlw dGlvbiB0aGFuIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHRleHQuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCnpoZW4NCg0KPg0KPiAqIC0g UkZDIDMzMTUgdXNlZCAxMjAgc2Vjb25kcyBmb3IgdGhlc2UgdmFsdWVzLCBidXQgdGhhdCB3YXMg dXBkYXRlZCBieSBSRkMgNzA4My4NCj4NCj4gLSBCZXJuaWUNCj4NCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogSW50LWRpciBbbWFpbHRvOmludC1kaXItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRm Lm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIFpoZW4gQ2FvDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIg MDEsIDIwMTcgMzo0MSBBTQ0KPiBUbzogaW50LWRpckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDYzogZGhjd2dAaWV0 Zi5vcmc7IGlldGZAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IA0KPiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRoYy1yZmMzMzE1YmlzLmFsbEBp ZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbSW50LWRpcl0gSW50ZGlyIGVhcmx5IHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFm dC1pZXRmLWRoYy1yZmMzMzE1YmlzLTEwDQo+DQo+IFJldmlld2VyOiBaaGVuIENhbw0KPiBSZXZp ZXcgcmVzdWx0OiBSZWFkeSB3aXRoIElzc3Vlcw0KPg0KPiBJIGFtIGFuIGFzc2lnbmVkIElOVCBk aXJlY3RvcmF0ZSByZXZpZXdlciBmb3IgdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4gVGhlc2UgY29tbWVudHMgd2VyZSB3 cml0dGVuIHByaW1hcmlseSBmb3IgdGhlIGJlbmVmaXQgb2YgdGhlIEludGVybmV0IEFyZWEgRGly ZWN0b3JzLiBEb2N1bWVudCBlZGl0b3JzIGFuZCBzaGVwaGVyZHMgc2hvdWxkIHRyZWF0IHRoZXNl IGNvbW1lbnRzIGp1c3QgbGlrZSB0aGV5IHdvdWxkIHRyZWF0IGNvbW1lbnRzIGZyb20gYW55IG90 aGVyIElFVEYgY29udHJpYnV0b3JzIGFuZCByZXNvbHZlIHRoZW0gYWxvbmcgd2l0aCBhbnkgb3Ro ZXIgTGFzdCBDYWxsIGNvbW1lbnRzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIHJlY2VpdmVkLiBGb3IgbW9yZSBk ZXRhaWxzIG9mIHRoZSBJTlQgZGlyZWN0b3JhdGUsIHNlZSA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9p ZXNnL2RpcmVjdG9yYXRlLmh0bWw+Lg0KPg0KPiBUaGlzIHZlcnNpb24gaXMgcXVpdGUgcmVhZHkg dG8gZ28sIHdpdGggYSBzbWFsbCBpc3N1ZSB0aGF0IEkgd291bGQgDQo+IGxpa2UgdG8NCj4gZGlz Y3Vzc2lvbjoNCj4NCj4gSW4gU2VjdGlvbi4gMTUgKFJlbGlhYmlsaXR5IG9mIENsaWVudCBJbml0 aWF0ZWQgTWVzc2FnZSBFeGNoYW5nZXMpLCBJIHN0cm9uZ2x5IHJlY29tbWVuZCB0aGF0IGltcGxl bWVudGF0aW9uIE1VU1QgTk9UIHNldCBib3RoIE1SQyBvciBNUkQgdG8gWkVSTywgd2hpY2ggYXR0 YWNoZXMgYSBwb3NzaWJsZSByaXNrIHRoYXQgdGhlIGNsaWVudCBjb250aW51ZXMgdG8gc2VuZCB0 aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Ugd2l0aG91dA0KPiBhIHN0b3AuICAgIFNvIEkgd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBwcm9w b3NlIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgY2hhbmdlOg0KPg0KPiBzLw0KPiAiIElmIGJvdGggTVJDIGFuZCBN UkQgYXJlIHplcm8sIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgY29udGludWVzIHRvIHRyYW5zbWl0IHRoZQ0KPiAgICBt ZXNzYWdlIHVudGlsIGl0IHJlY2VpdmVzIGEgcmVzcG9uc2UuIg0KPiAvDQo+ICJUaGUgY2xpZW50 IG11c3QgYmUgaW5mb3JtZWQgd2l0aCBhIGxpbWl0IG9mIGl0cyByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBiZWhh dmlvciwgYW5kIE1VU1QgTk9UIHNldCBib3RoIE1SQyBhbmQgTVJEIHRvIHplcm8iDQo+DQo+IC16 aGVuDQo+DQo+DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQo+IEludC1kaXIgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IEludC1kaXJAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnQtZGlyDQo= From nobody Sat Nov 11 17:58:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E5F129451 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 17:57:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.65.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151045187914.30840.8057091454741368353.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 17:57:59 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Milestones changed for dhc WG X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 01:57:59 -0000 Changed milestone "WG last call draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-dhc-relay-server-security to IESG", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. Changed milestone "Submit draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port to IESG", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dhc/about/ From nobody Sun Nov 12 18:48:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC47127077; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:48:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zWo7OlW-t56j; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [91.239.96.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4831F1241F5; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:8016:582c:2bf0:48c4] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:8016:582c:2bf0:48c4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B95C80197; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:48:24 +0100 (CET) To: Ted Lemon , Lorenzo Colitti Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org WG" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "dhcwg@ietf.org" References: <9d154133-a1de-7774-1589-c7069bf279ee@si6networks.com> <0b45890d-ea4a-47b8-a650-ceb72b066df8@gmail.com> <207f040a-7fe2-9434-e7a5-f546b26fdf63@strayalpha.com> From: Fernando Gont Message-ID: <1595d30b-b704-8102-977b-31baa384ceb0@si6networks.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:50:04 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:48:30 -0000 On 11/13/2017 10:17 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Nov 13, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Lorenzo Colitti > wrote: >> Excuse me, but I really cannot fathom why we are saying that this >> draft defines a new protocol when it is an explicit goal for all >> existing implementations to continue to work. How can this be a new >> protocol when all implementations implement this already? > > All host implementations have to work.   In order for them to work, new > router behavior has to be specified.   That sounds like a protocol spec > to me.  My question would be, why is this a problem?   I think that the > document could be clearer about required behavior, but it already > basically says what needs to happen. If it's a BCP, then it should state what it wants to achieve, and note that there is a standardized way to do it (DHCPv6-PD), and there are products width non-standard mechanisms based SLAAC. And that's fair enough. If somebody is willing to specify PD for SLAAC, then they should write an I-D targeting 6man -- one might also wonder if also name it SSLAAC, or just AAC (if there's a lack of a better name :-) ) Putting state into SLAAC will likely trigger "WTH!?" moments, particulaly in folks that are already having a hard figuring out how all the IPv6 automatic configuration pieces fit together. I also wonder what's the logic with which we'd be specifying PD for SLAAC... and also wondering if we're also going to specify a route option for DHCPv6, and the like. And, if we're essentially going to disregard anything and everything that can already be done in a standard way with DHCPv6 and hack it into slaac instead, why we don't we just close dhc wg. Doing a half-baked sateful SLAAC for PD, and telling the community that that's our best current practice seems to be like sending the wrong message... Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Sun Nov 12 19:47:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88FAB129407; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:47:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.65.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151054482655.21370.2657580358462340178.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2017 19:47:06 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dhc-relay-port-07=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:47:07 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I really think this document should update RFC2131 and RFC3315 as it proposed concrete changes to both RFCs. The point is that, while the use of the described mechanism and options is optional, I think the updates of the texts apply more generally. Further, I would think that if a DHCP server now has to listen on all ports for incoming traffic, that this would raise additional security considerations. However, didn’t think enough about it to name a specific threat. 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Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:38:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jR_Cqs5Hhf_t for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:38:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1088129485 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 21:38:39 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=fj7azWthtqbrBMpUt9J1usOvVzsMAf4OnWI3UiU31EhlsBplP9bINHEto9sefg3G/PMWAI0YSDPj3VE2tDCfOGuJGioYE/pqpFEwEmx6DR83r9pC6tASBF2t11XI2lMS+n71dTU+40ahOnXQv/DNi9w/hSE/tCyS95I7OPcxc5U=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 15873 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2017 06:38:37 +0100 Received: from dhcp-80f9.meeting.ietf.org (31.133.128.249) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 13 Nov 2017 06:38:37 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <013E8E09-72FF-4EB5-85B7-4EC62F58F8F2@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:38:34 +0800 Cc: "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , The IESG , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2A4450C0-EAFB-4506-9FFA-BA01E76AFD50@kuehlewind.net> References: <151054482655.21370.2657580358462340178.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <013E8E09-72FF-4EB5-85B7-4EC62F58F8F2@cisco.com> To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171113053837.15865.29528@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 05:38:51 -0000 Hi Bernie, > Am 13.11.2017 um 11:57 schrieb Bernie Volz (volz) : >=20 > Hi: >=20 > A DHCP Server does not need to listen on other ports. Only the relay = that wants to use an alternative port for responses needs to listen on = alternate port(s). Right. And you don=E2=80=99t think that that has any new security = implications? >=20 > Regarding the updates issue, this is always a complex question - does = a new DHCP option update these documents? I believe that updates should = be used for required changes to a protocol (or corrections), not for = extensions. It is too bad there is no =E2=80=9Cextends=E2=80=9D tag to = indicate extensions. I agree the option would not require an update but the text changes do. Mirja >=20 > - Bernie >=20 > On Nov 13, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind = wrote: >=20 >> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I really think this document should update RFC2131 and RFC3315 as it = proposed >> concrete changes to both RFCs. The point is that, while the use of = the >> described mechanism and options is optional, I think the updates of = the texts >> apply more generally. >>=20 >> Further, I would think that if a DHCP server now has to listen on all = ports for >> incoming traffic, that this would raise additional security = considerations. >> However, didn=E2=80=99t think enough about it to name a specific = threat. >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Mon Nov 13 02:19:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE0E124BE8; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:18:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mG3KO2duZuoH; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22a.google.com (mail-pf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3307F128B51; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id a84so6599943pfl.0; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:18:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z4W8wIh/jpjXt334i28OU4DXNaRQXytGcF3tfJsuWiU=; b=aUwAxYUPqwZ2bWsCkknZFG8gkdhuZMegdcuw87hvZe8oWhvWHqPUzo+yjlbLOO6XkI HRygd/b/3vLRy4IFnNNiDSln/FPy7gKx2u37fENp9QV0Sus0FtfoBRKZxTf1RrCxHZf2 on6puJNzPcoZGa7SmFV22Qo+yXbvxNwZ1Th4W30J5F/5AgDc7sy3TOZADSpZU6IiJuKg TDxPN1VqoO1KizJ8lizX6bdvUkJT2ouSIyhqlGWVtvk/6nhQfCiRctAApMu+Th+OF40A LCfktLCWswZToEogFkzFoFq6d/iwKtiDhHopuBC0+Ig30ONMnbxlA0oX9ztE5AuM9jcU 3otQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z4W8wIh/jpjXt334i28OU4DXNaRQXytGcF3tfJsuWiU=; b=DgSmPoFMzlKoGhZvDLJWt6KJUTEVCwOsaa84PvpQqf9/IY7LZVQMz7pcYUYbahy1cV PxPq7cOeijQp9O4WfMdBMjqRF/8cFTfSubiqOsRss9r1aGi8YqsYX7JD9rgVVqCA4dKc K8VOnzGMQBdmBvNrprJN64jVKHWybljkRfzT5hIYbJ4thMLWDyWOQit+i7sGQhUkZVfZ JRvYC1z1POpL1rv0MHSw5dEMp2w2VzPzJcBs7rrUPNH7Z6fhebK5NPEhWgiq+Nge0Jgz 8dGZckIsFml6Fs8pRnvcO/fDATknjmB+j8AheCuZPLjbKS4aRs0at8JWuabNT+zwKUJ/ 8Vqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6H1Na9/LRiFAGVBsiSzXQFXp52hvWVBQEcVFqa5Q35lcYqw1+h aVEUaYRO6Mxt4g2NYb+21ODTirwKyxvKsjPSjOY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZbF4/g2JKbOkrT8Ro5DyGtajK39p1CZDxPB6LIk32gK7tuNQ25ML/E6e7lXsV6s9DKkuN1bbUw7JEn0Ap4qmg= X-Received: by 10.98.190.6 with SMTP id l6mr9383459pff.53.1510568334669; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:18:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.134.228 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:18:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2A4450C0-EAFB-4506-9FFA-BA01E76AFD50@kuehlewind.net> References: <151054482655.21370.2657580358462340178.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <013E8E09-72FF-4EB5-85B7-4EC62F58F8F2@cisco.com> <2A4450C0-EAFB-4506-9FFA-BA01E76AFD50@kuehlewind.net> From: Suresh Krishnan Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:18:54 +0800 Message-ID: To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , The IESG , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:18:57 -0000 Hi Mirja, On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: > Hi Bernie, > > >> Am 13.11.2017 um 11:57 schrieb Bernie Volz (volz) : >> >> Hi: >> >> A DHCP Server does not need to listen on other ports. Only the relay tha= t wants to use an alternative port for responses needs to listen on alterna= te port(s). > > Right. And you don=E2=80=99t think that that has any new security implica= tions? >> >> Regarding the updates issue, this is always a complex question - does a = new DHCP option update these documents? I believe that updates should be us= ed for required changes to a protocol (or corrections), not for extensions.= It is too bad there is no =E2=80=9Cextends=E2=80=9D tag to indicate extens= ions. > > I agree the option would not require an update but the text changes do. The mechanism specified in this document is not generically applicable to implementers of RFC3315 and RFC2131. Only relay nodes that run the relay processes on non ports need to implement this spec. I think making this document update RFC3315/2131 would cause more harm than good. Thanks Suresh From nobody Mon Nov 13 19:46:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7832A126C2F for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:46:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z37yt9bA2UXU for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A5011242EA for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:46:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vAE3kbPU021523; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:46:37 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.172]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAE3kTlh021498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:46:29 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efac::8988:efac) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:46:28 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:46:28 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AdNc+j0Y/64lorm6QoWdIRZ/749NYQ== Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 03:46:28 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 03:46:40 -0000 Hi, I have been using DHCPv6 PD for a long time to get delegated prefixes on devices like Android handsets. But, I am troubled by the fact that I need t= o also do RS/RA in order to get default router lifetimes and other informatio= n specific to the link in addition to the DHCPv6 Solicit/Reply. If my DHCPv6 server will always be on the same router that will serve as my default router, is there any way to get DHCPv6 to also provide the informat= ion normally conveyed in RAs? For example, define a new DHCPv6 option that embeds an IPv6 ND RA? Thanks - Fred From nobody Mon Nov 13 21:42:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF1F126D46 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:42:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ECJWSFoKD8E2 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22c.google.com (mail-pf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 993F71201FA for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id t69so4646258pfg.4 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:42:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=jgZOmVUOQpqJgKTnQZAaqv2PIQIc4yeJE9haCTrRyFw=; b=oefN3W7+pb1K0TZutqmZtOaO6a6cIzTEucUeceHfcO3z2FdqFk8g42Xcp8UleGR0ey 6bFOwy9QyJBABqcSHdRwmJAcvdlRdMa/6MmAnKmoF9Es5nwA0rGX26LOlrPIPGy4DFVj xpETyuqxdrL0qAlhF4Az9MiW//wVZdXL2cVUeIIQlFNnbWGWK3A9kEgWdtSU8oBTnH9Z I11R2vt6dG4bsZltZ+w++n6HDmyy8eioHKOv8Q2I6YAWJwnOr3Mzl5xkDCJ3lmOJsh+u Wn3sQALmvWXcpPoQnCKrZQxd37np6rBqPPYIhBpulmV2vQmFqoc8wAweXFb8y+hyJ65o NYXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=jgZOmVUOQpqJgKTnQZAaqv2PIQIc4yeJE9haCTrRyFw=; b=NNkvKqnEIhL+KC9TsshNhovo3Hp0JOQ1Z6ZlM5q3rcsgoSk7gkf+1iM1Nwc6Oa/nuJ jyFOjypdN/tgIsg1EwyQcSEe4WG7Kqiv8SrVIvBZrAnYND5NMNMSAmiijV6/AjFt60Ok oIkU67FfxCMw+hYPrr7rivZfC556ggyCz8hvPAGbrbUdncZc0ZuGNqM22W4/DA5RT2le RcaD0uTOPReNuKoBAARGGi8FbPmTLId4Wx8io4Bm/9evH7felrARSA2U7AHgSsvhblDK aNx4UgzDWDF3IPYhG8y6JlCn5FsgaItf/6OyuDhfQC9VLd7W2eDipadotchIH6+Yc1t4 CHJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5UTcNby6wRpHad9WdAF+rwzOnM3oF9Qs4HrKnzefHx2zoJkY1P rSjRsY0pRMQtFdhDKrJvfY/Y2Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZWjEut9Z/QuTHNx3u68f5DiqQeDEOY0zx2RwEQriJu90HAPfHE+azhNhbW4wxQUJgxY5xIkA== X-Received: by 10.101.80.132 with SMTP id r4mr10842665pgp.428.1510638137103; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:b5e8:98bd:11cb:8596? ([2001:67c:370:1998:b5e8:98bd:11cb:8596]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g1sm36983388pfg.111.2017.11.13.21.42.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:42:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E5288299-986E-43BF-8517-28AD6E50E039" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 13:42:13 +0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" To: "Templin, Fred L" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 05:42:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E5288299-986E-43BF-8517-28AD6E50E039 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 14, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Templin, Fred L = wrote: > If my DHCPv6 server will always be on the same router that will serve = as my > default router, is there any way to get DHCPv6 to also provide the = information > normally conveyed in RAs? For example, define a new DHCPv6 option that > embeds an IPv6 ND RA? This would be something to bring up in 6man. Because why not discuss = it one more time...? :] --Apple-Mail=_E5288299-986E-43BF-8517-28AD6E50E039 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 14, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
If my DHCPv6 server will always be on the = same router that will serve as my
default router, is = there any way to get DHCPv6 to also provide the information
normally conveyed in RAs? For example, define a = new DHCPv6 option that
embeds an IPv6 ND = RA?

This = would be something to bring up in 6man.   Because why not discuss = it one more time...?   :]

= --Apple-Mail=_E5288299-986E-43BF-8517-28AD6E50E039-- From nobody Mon Nov 13 22:20:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F4F129405 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:20:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PJh9dQmS6YpI for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32838129417 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vAE6KNeV006163; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:23 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.221]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAE6KJDY006140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:20:19 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdd::8988:efdd) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:20:19 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:20:19 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Ted Lemon CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AdNc+j0Y/64lorm6QoWdIRZ/749NYQAVCNOAAA+Bc2A= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:20:18 +0000 Message-ID: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889fXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:20:26 -0000 --_000_8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889fXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ted, I don't want to perpetuate the endless debate going on over there, but I think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of IPv6ND RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? Thanks - Fred From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 9:42 PM To: Templin, Fred L Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND On Nov 14, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: If my DHCPv6 server will always be on the same router that will serve as my default router, is there any way to get DHCPv6 to also provide the informat= ion normally conveyed in RAs? For example, define a new DHCPv6 option that embeds an IPv6 ND RA? This would be something to bring up in 6man. Because why not discuss it o= ne more time...? :] --_000_8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889fXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ted,

 

I don’t want to perpetuate the = endless debate going on over there, but I

think I have a fair question. How can= we get the functionality of IPv6ND

RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/= response message exchange?

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue= .com]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 9:42 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND

 

On Nov 14, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>= ; wrote:

If my DHCPv6 server will always be on the same rou= ter that will serve as my
default router, is there any way to get DHCPv6 to also provide the informat= ion
normally conveyed in RAs? For example, define a new DHCPv6 option that
embeds an IPv6 ND RA?

 

This would be something to bring up in 6man.   = Because why not discuss it one more time...?   :]

 

--_000_8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889fXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 13 23:38:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD3F1293DA for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:38:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F4ml5MCjnkKx for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com (mail-pg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE30C124B18 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id y5so14724777pgq.7 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:38:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=YBJFrF0Di14qVlph7y0/FkjsaNJ4vl7hHlefEXMpBl0=; b=SOx8hylXMGHoq79xkxg17cX1IrMp0EJjRMW7VQrDmFZdMDJ+h1RhbrjZwgXiwu3A8J af5p9GP9dQ93iI2X0W/X0vKKO1puuBpH5m/f36/GyTQbfE1/N+92DpLe92lnJ8GKNpVa Cut3z+k6140IJpLQeEhwgGfvSfIPIiDfRzU0Om6Z/gDm74YsG+uRLXQCN+a5eSza5Jkc 31W/WBCP00OT7qQIUCegjR2cOKNyVEvf5+DgQR7NPnKy5/DVVHfjrgt/7pWRz1xlmxty 2CfXmn8XbmvWNRHNCNYLGOlNWsdqm4znp9HeeeSCZuq9plekearo0cU/+7S7JgZq2WE0 tDsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=YBJFrF0Di14qVlph7y0/FkjsaNJ4vl7hHlefEXMpBl0=; b=MW6xwdDH138BCG/H2jMNKe0su9OEat5Qk7vfsKj+QRU2wijQDz/HAbKdpChxCCv6na 3pqv/Jh6dCG9WyAZAxVbQf79xNfl+XF4QFrFjIRWr8FgnmmvoGcbivqgq3JbIGAUDgnu Jejy3O8Quv5MiYWl+WwUMMgOgQbvKiE4UVSbv1cIBPjMfuopK17PGaTVaT3qas7AVBOL 6y8S0iHSPkCxVp5zLmqXT5nN/h4jKbZwn9aUa+YnnzO+EFpHcRs0G/0MV7cAgvs3zVW7 pRF4xUw87dvn6XKESZLr4ULkwmkzLhNGoIKk6Vh20POGBScn0+x1aH+NvXFtya+XRjcO BlAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5gXVrdzAwYBZc9S/byAxKryXyICVwR/Em/ivFviqkeuzEflU0G ZBj2u0j5QklyCYZrmnLsCYgfwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZQV8rPE/kjBZrqGTy/az4d8rmNwHCVCOuwroBKFJnm7Ay6VJkgOtxxaadWA73piPuOgMgG4Q== X-Received: by 10.99.103.70 with SMTP id b67mr4869393pgc.211.1510645133382; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:41ba:146c:7b82:24c6? ([2001:67c:370:1998:41ba:146c:7b82:24c6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b9sm28840880pgu.20.2017.11.13.23.38.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:38:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5E4934F1-B70B-4BFC-93F4-5DD150401A92" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:38:49 +0800 In-Reply-To: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" To: "Templin, Fred L" References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 07:38:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5E4934F1-B70B-4BFC-93F4-5DD150401A92 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L = wrote: > I > think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of = IPv6ND > RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? Right now, you can't. The question is, why is this a problem? We've been around on this a lot of times. I don't see any reason to do = it again. But if you want to do it, you need to say why it's a problem = that you have to do router discovery, why it's better to configure the = DHCP server with router topology information, how you're going to get = the right router link-local address to send, and why all of this = complexity is somehow a better solution than router advertisements. It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6 for this, = can't we specify that?" --Apple-Mail=_5E4934F1-B70B-4BFC-93F4-5DD150401A92 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
I
think I have a fair question. How can we get the = functionality of IPv6ND
RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single = request/response message = exchange?

Right now, you can't.   The question is, why is this a = problem?

We've = been around on this a lot of times.   I don't see any reason to do = it again.   But if you want to do it, you need to say why it's a = problem that you have to do router discovery, why it's better to = configure the DHCP server with router topology information, how you're = going to get the right router link-local address to send, and why all of = this complexity is somehow a better solution than router = advertisements.

It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use = DHCPv6 for this, can't we specify that?"

= --Apple-Mail=_5E4934F1-B70B-4BFC-93F4-5DD150401A92-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 01:07:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47A61286C7 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:07:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYc-iBVvQu2X for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 115B0128891 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vAE970Us015283; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:07:00 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.238.222]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAE96s2f015276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:06:55 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:06:53 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:06:53 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Ted Lemon CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AdNc+j0Y/64lorm6QoWdIRZ/749NYQAVCNOAAA+Bc2D//6SIgIAAb4cg Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:06:53 +0000 Message-ID: <9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefe@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefeXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:07:04 -0000 --_000_9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefeXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ted, The sensitivity I have is for aeronautical data links that have bandwidths = south of 1Mbps with some being as low as 32Kbps. I realize that these are marginal e= ven for running IPv6 in the first place. But, if we are to do IPv6 at all we ne= ed to keep the number of control messages to an absolute minimum. I realize this may n= ot be as much of a concern for the majority of modern wired-line and wireless = links that we see in the Internet but with the airplanes we don't have that luxur= y. Thanks - Fred From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:39 PM To: Templin, Fred L Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: I think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of IPv6ND RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? Right now, you can't. The question is, why is this a problem? We've been around on this a lot of times. I don't see any reason to do it= again. But if you want to do it, you need to say why it's a problem that= you have to do router discovery, why it's better to configure the DHCP ser= ver with router topology information, how you're going to get the right rou= ter link-local address to send, and why all of this complexity is somehow a= better solution than router advertisements. It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6 for this, ca= n't we specify that?" --_000_9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefeXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ted,

 

The sensitivity I have is for aeronau= tical data links that have bandwidths south of

1Mbps with some being as low as 32Kbp= s. I realize that these are marginal even

for running IPv6 in the first place. = But, if we are to do IPv6 at all we need to keep

the number of control messages to an = absolute minimum. I realize this may not

be as much of a concern for the major= ity of modern wired-line and wireless links

that we see in the Internet but with = the airplanes we don’t have that luxury.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue= .com]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:39 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND

 

On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>= wrote:

I

think I have a fair question. How can= we get the functionality of IPv6ND

RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/= response message exchange?

 

Right now, you can't.   The question is, why is= this a problem?

 

We've been around on this a lot of times.   I d= on't see any reason to do it again.   But if you want to do it, you ne= ed to say why it's a problem that you have to do router discovery, why it's= better to configure the DHCP server with router topology information, how you're going to get the right router link-local = address to send, and why all of this complexity is somehow a better solutio= n than router advertisements.

 

It's not good enough to just say "I'd really ra= ther use DHCPv6 for this, can't we specify that?"

 

--_000_9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefeXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 01:23:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F627129409 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:23:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT=1.449, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JVlfff23ZcOk for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp [131.112.32.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 05DB6128D19 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 77782 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2017 09:21:40 -0000 Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (131.112.32.132) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 14 Nov 2017 09:21:40 -0000 To: dhcwg@ietf.org References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefe@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Masataka Ohta Cc: =?UTF-8?B?55yf6YeOIOa1qQ==?= , Hitoshi MORIOKA Message-ID: <5b826996-998e-16dd-f753-016b464acb53@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:23:47 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefe@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:54 -0000 Templin, Fred L wrote: > But, if we are to do IPv6 at all we need to keep > the number of control messages to an absolute minimum. I realize this may not > be as much of a concern for the majority of modern wired-line and wireless links > that we see in the Internet It is a concern for Wifi links. http://standards.ieee.org/news/2017/ieee_802.11.html IEEE 802.11ai addresses challenges where a large number of mobile users are continually entering and leaving an existing extended service set (ESS) coverage area. The amendment provides scalability for a high number of users simultaneously entering an ESS, minimizes time spent initializing a link, and provides secure authentication. In effect, IEEE 802.11ai significantly improves user connectivity in high-density environments, such as arenas, stadiums, airports, shopping malls, etc., as well as for automotive systems, allowing for a more secure and reliable connection, and enabling more efficient spectrum use by optimizing the protocol overhead in high-density user environments. Masataka Ohta From nobody Tue Nov 14 02:44:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB96127775 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y-AWHWNZL3z8 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com (mail-it0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FE16127B5A for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id n134so4477937itg.3 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jV2WcPRHnrOvsq1brdWpfWnGIuGCAsrvZiPmZ+Z5Z6o=; b=zWSKVLs+T4xXcD3pdVfSo+beAYjLsdTOZf8pkZm6v8QYUBnYRVYq51PHtAb1UdCKtU MsPJ8c8zXWIKv0JYPyb1pxL4ILV9mGG0L54TE7vvlKaazPAnHSujWJs6SirOrK3dGwv/ mGl9/naeDYiLGDwLsS2DXulJvfIm1ckP2CtwjP/BlJrW4fbDpzijMz1wqLYpT3/m5gYF AmhZiU6HvcHQqutBAt/Yv3nIDgSwjwO+2AguFtUUXUkmRncMVvpRbUcPlmqtqoOzfuhZ JW6pfYSmsHnN99rIwpm6KEsCJ96kpz8SQ0ino7+zcDSC5jT7rS9UFtMq3g/iHxtxDagT Mdlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jV2WcPRHnrOvsq1brdWpfWnGIuGCAsrvZiPmZ+Z5Z6o=; b=jf7w7bbDuUe4kMrJHTK7+vrjGGnE43Sa8ZO8+KCc26iXzAa+1M89mJqvRfTBchjrsi lTGb20rkjCjLn8OB27pcWd0i+2pbUKDQQcm+VKwL0WDp/mO6eiW3tZysFiHjVdNZxeqx liq3ATk6e5iNVA0LrOBrgcvGnPtCtwjsP/4qqGRsf0MiLpAkd3L34q7qRYHe1hcFkGwt KPKBS0WsDdd6dlhdyoG5DR7DrMuaIyc0ecy+h6dV34E3Uv4Evh4GUn3IOuiA0Ug1eu2j bmHNO7PvuDelcv7A/L1hY4tGWU/PBBBxhGL+7VMrYuF7TWpWo7DGMWj3wk06K7FPhpQ5 C9LA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5F5Yur+fyF5pMiAztIbRGHjJfA6Y+aTEiBuOC8iuocns1KzbFZ QoJEYT0bvyKhAINfzZw1Cz/xlH4ry3w+UmUeVvWGSQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMY5F2Ils+RRaZusoIF28m2BeWCf9GHTVGt+uXWDoqw9lxBYi35qdpweUpyNGl5AVrHZqd4b1fa9aHL4P2v14aM= X-Received: by 10.36.166.75 with SMTP id r11mr7352894iti.41.1510656244591; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:44:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefe@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <9efe6e3d4fe8483196d8fe114614fefe@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:44:04 +0800 Message-ID: To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: dhcwg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045fae04d64418055def1048" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 10:44:07 -0000 --f403045fae04d64418055def1048 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay. How is this problem currently addressed on llns? On Nov 14, 2017 17:07, "Templin, Fred L" wrote: > Hi Ted, > > > > The sensitivity I have is for aeronautical data links that have bandwidth= s > south of > > 1Mbps with some being as low as 32Kbps. I realize that these are marginal > even > > for running IPv6 in the first place. But, if we are to do IPv6 at all we > need to keep > > the number of control messages to an absolute minimum. I realize this may > not > > be as much of a concern for the majority of modern wired-line and wireles= s > links > > that we see in the Internet but with the airplanes we don=E2=80=99t have = that > luxury. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com] > *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 11:39 PM > *To:* Templin, Fred L > *Cc:* dhcwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND > > > > On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: > > I > > think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of IPv6ND > > RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? > > > > Right now, you can't. The question is, why is this a problem? > > > > We've been around on this a lot of times. I don't see any reason to do > it again. But if you want to do it, you need to say why it's a problem > that you have to do router discovery, why it's better to configure the DH= CP > server with router topology information, how you're going to get the righ= t > router link-local address to send, and why all of this complexity is > somehow a better solution than router advertisements. > > > > It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6 for this, > can't we specify that?" > > > --f403045fae04d64418055def1048 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay. How is this problem currently addressed on llns?

On Nov 14, 201= 7 17:07, "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Ted,

=C2=A0

The sensitivity I have is for aeronau= tical data links that have bandwidths south of

1Mbps with some being as low as 32Kbp= s. I realize that these are marginal even

for running IPv6 in the first place. = But, if we are to do IPv6 at all we need to keep

the number of control messages to an = absolute minimum. I realize this may not

be as much of a concern for the major= ity of modern wired-line and wireless links

that we see in the Internet but with = the airplanes we don=E2=80=99t have that luxury.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 11:39 PM
To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: dhcwg@ietf.o= rg
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND

=C2=A0

On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@= boeing.com> wrote:

I

think I have a fair question. How can= we get the functionality of IPv6ND

RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/= response message exchange?

=C2=A0

Right now, you can't. =C2=A0 The question is, wh= y is this a problem?

=C2=A0

We've been around on this a lot of times. =C2=A0= I don't see any reason to do it again. =C2=A0 But if you want to do it= , you need to say why it's a problem that you have to do router discove= ry, why it's better to configure the DHCP server with router topology information, how you're going to get the right router link-lo= cal address to send, and why all of this complexity is somehow a better sol= ution than router advertisements.

=C2=A0

It's not good enough to just say "I'd r= eally rather use DHCPv6 for this, can't we specify that?"

=C2=A0

--f403045fae04d64418055def1048-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 06:30:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18345126C89 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:30:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SsW7X8wtbn-8 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28724124B0A for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAEEUWLY004692 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:30:32 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 5FA4520556D for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:30:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56850202807 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:30:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.85.172] ([132.166.85.172]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAEEUU1h027601 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:30:31 +0100 To: dhcwg@ietf.org References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:30:30 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:30:37 -0000 Le 14/11/2017 à 08:38, Ted Lemon a écrit : > On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: >> I >> think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of IPv6ND >> RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? > > Right now, you can't.   The question is, why is this a problem? > > We've been around on this a lot of times.   I don't see any reason to do > it again.   But if you want to do it, you need to say why it's a problem > that you have to do router discovery, why it's better to configure the > DHCP server with router topology information, how you're going to get > the right router link-local address to send, and why all of this > complexity is somehow a better solution than router advertisements. Ted, The combined use of DHCPv6 and SLAAC is an unsolved problem in cellular networks. Add to that the implications of the use of an undocumented link-layer setup protocol ("PDP") in the address formation. A second aspect is that for full configuration one must use both DHCPv6-PD and SLAAC. If we agree to those two points then it's easy to see the consequences which go along the lines that Fred proposes. But if people dont agree DHCPv6 is needed, then it's a waste of time to explain. One could as well go to 3GPP and tell them to offer not only address setup in PDP but also prefix delegation. That may be less time to spend than do it at IETF. Alex > > It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6 for this, > can't we specify that?" > > > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > From nobody Tue Nov 14 06:53:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F2A126C0F for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vzfFWJa0qMoE for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x22e.google.com (mail-it0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83E32124C27 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id m191so13822906itg.2 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZW2vx3JNGYwXsTgPbqeYVom1Xu3vQEsTfSlC5tqFKhw=; b=J9o5BFLJOBnKU54mQKRfmrsaUImXXXDSNMM48DaJQ7GwNW0BQq70cZPJYLwfJWZ5it ZgfCyFcFuWvo+OAoly3wPsG/9IK7WC893Xcu27f0+B2XpasCtB/Bz8GMHm1eomdv4B2N Y7od2gTHiiILalRxAnWKI+hDTacNWuWkDH/VJ0qPotP6YgcpR8WuQsm9L9BKaWXxByZu L242PmNJZE/rCxZQcVa/GqicCaiQ7bbYzs0ZKIIyPqtSaeIMW2A3VjofK0QaDvzi9lQf xuUKVWKQdB2z4JJiBY3ZUfDAw4SkAWiccYU9xud2ewaDcy1GyULY18YU7epaEHbGdTdr 6xpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZW2vx3JNGYwXsTgPbqeYVom1Xu3vQEsTfSlC5tqFKhw=; b=aCvZZ3MpBjI6PgOUohJLOmQeoYcDUAoDUfddvdjzEFK/JEC22Qzf+pOy4sCYb4fsy9 /Q9JCZq2rTPQ9zuHEvXuydceX0iIaR1Ja5fgMceTU6h23aQFIBqn1x0MoeCwIww/gwEi 578o4Ue8ShuAmeKXD9aXXQOaUsOuYOJ0GwxsLSR/75zndJYYydDKYl4LXfDGQvueoZBZ RfrGLuOK3ypV6jrzrpZF1VwBgkrDI4i3CK5Snlceyp0n1zZDJBis7P1CJJDSYdGTmQSx fGM0DHouEbRC88etXgp7m531g41xcpa/MJdyfmc0X8k+rcAbu6miDD/N/FQF8lvjEngW NDcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6Ep6Lly9UuwmPWGSE8semwHqImVIXFG3mQHz5S0+dFCvzNE36s yj+ZYcC1cjSMNRm3lrm1Tdgzm8OuxsTq2UUSgsMwTw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZL9+5+7avq71IhzIDltZdYF9dfzZgNavkGt3Xk3qom6yv0gff1hPPAPlt8Jl4q79utrBJBBZHaPkr3qSXGANA= X-Received: by 10.36.203.4 with SMTP id u4mr6434655itg.138.1510671201902; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:53:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:53:21 +0800 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: dhcwg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0b0aa05cb4da055df28ceb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:53:25 -0000 --94eb2c0b0aa05cb4da055df28ceb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why is it an unsolved problem? On Nov 14, 2017 22:30, "Alexandre Petrescu" wrote: > > > Le 14/11/2017 =C3=A0 08:38, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : > >> On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L > > wrote: >> >>> I >>> think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of IPv6N= D >>> RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? >>> >> >> Right now, you can't. The question is, why is this a problem? >> >> We've been around on this a lot of times. I don't see any reason to do >> it again. But if you want to do it, you need to say why it's a problem >> that you have to do router discovery, why it's better to configure the D= HCP >> server with router topology information, how you're going to get the rig= ht >> router link-local address to send, and why all of this complexity is >> somehow a better solution than router advertisements. >> > > Ted, > > The combined use of DHCPv6 and SLAAC is an unsolved problem in cellular > networks. Add to that the implications of the use of an undocumented > link-layer setup protocol ("PDP") in the address formation. > > A second aspect is that for full configuration one must use both DHCPv6-P= D > and SLAAC. > > If we agree to those two points then it's easy to see the consequences > which go along the lines that Fred proposes. > > But if people dont agree DHCPv6 is needed, then it's a waste of time to > explain. > > One could as well go to 3GPP and tell them to offer not only address setu= p > in PDP but also prefix delegation. That may be less time to spend than d= o > it at IETF. > > Alex > > >> It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6 for this, >> can't we specify that?" >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > --94eb2c0b0aa05cb4da055df28ceb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Why is it an unsolved problem?

On Nov 14, 2017 22:30, "Alexandre= Petrescu" <alexand= re.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:


Le 14/11/2017 =C3=A0 08:38, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mail= to:Fred.L.Te= mplin@boeing.com>> wrote:
I
think I have a fair question. How can we get the functionality of IPv6ND RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange?

Right now, you can't. =C2=A0 The question is, why is this a problem?
We've been around on this a lot of times. =C2=A0 I don't see any re= ason to do it again. =C2=A0 But if you want to do it, you need to say why i= t's a problem that you have to do router discovery, why it's better= to configure the DHCP server with router topology information, how you'= ;re going to get the right router link-local address to send, and why all o= f this complexity is somehow a better solution than router advertisements.<= br>

Ted,

The combined use of DHCPv6 and SLAAC is an unsolved problem in cellular net= works.=C2=A0 Add to that the implications of the use of an undocumented lin= k-layer setup protocol ("PDP") in the address formation.

A second aspect is that for full configuration one must use both DHCPv6-PD = and SLAAC.

If we agree to those two points then it's easy to see the consequences = which go along the lines that Fred proposes.

But if people dont agree DHCPv6 is needed, then it's a waste of time to= explain.

One could as well go to 3GPP and tell them to offer not only address setup = in PDP but also prefix delegation.=C2=A0 That may be less time to spend tha= n do it at IETF.

Alex


It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6= for this, can't we specify that?"



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([2001:67c:370:1999:d989:d486:9e79:b286]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b23sm41506860pfm.148.2017.11.14.18.26.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:26:10 -0800 (PST) From: Alexandre Petrescu X-Google-Original-From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:26:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:26:13 -0000 Because of many reasons. The most recent popped up in mail box this morning - again has to do with modem and lack of DHCPv6. But at IETF, do you know whether there is a DHCPv6 Server up? I would like to test Prefix Delegation on "ietf-v6ONLY". The RA on "ietf-v6ONLY" has bit "Managed address configuration" not set; and I can not see any DHCPv6 traffic there. Alex Le 14/11/2017 à 15:53, Ted Lemon a écrit : > Why is it an unsolved problem? > > On Nov 14, 2017 22:30, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > wrote: > > > > Le 14/11/2017 à 08:38, Ted Lemon a écrit : > > On Nov 14, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Templin, Fred L > > >> wrote: > > I > think I have a fair question. How can we get the > functionality of IPv6ND > RA and DHCPv6 PD in a single request/response message exchange? > > > Right now, you can't.   The question is, why is this a problem? > > We've been around on this a lot of times.   I don't see any > reason to do it again.   But if you want to do it, you need to > say why it's a problem that you have to do router discovery, why > it's better to configure the DHCP server with router topology > information, how you're going to get the right router link-local > address to send, and why all of this complexity is somehow a > better solution than router advertisements. > > > Ted, > > The combined use of DHCPv6 and SLAAC is an unsolved problem in > cellular networks.  Add to that the implications of the use of an > undocumented link-layer setup protocol ("PDP") in the address formation. > > A second aspect is that for full configuration one must use both > DHCPv6-PD and SLAAC. > > If we agree to those two points then it's easy to see the > consequences which go along the lines that Fred proposes. > > But if people dont agree DHCPv6 is needed, then it's a waste of time > to explain. > > One could as well go to 3GPP and tell them to offer not only address > setup in PDP but also prefix delegation.  That may be less time to > spend than do it at IETF. > > Alex > > > It's not good enough to just say "I'd really rather use DHCPv6 > for this, can't we specify that?" > > > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > From nobody Tue Nov 14 18:28:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CE91205F0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:28:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lI13A5fPcBbv for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x232.google.com (mail-pg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9781B12949D for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 207so14083930pgc.12 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:28:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=PIGGCpcmpVeQG5lew9sJok/0+5R8S9kdmi99ylkT4bA=; b=NzELvV5KzjSOequorix7/caqFX/opphCkUJkNaLx1yLEE2ICMjpJPBddBNy4cUGB8s 2txH7BspPUA0EWRPnV1RgIfDdy34gf/cgGGnOOnA3njNkInmNDRWiivK2sLbshOenC/Z +DFdj0HjpFRt7XhqKRNM27tzrBLqzfn6KyNC0eTgPj/tQsTiBvQwkJXADfpZdDB1bF8I d6lmhmgFhVV/y5xlubM5H4l8RRcuOzuK9TPrJpeNgwu2AZpRh82rl+S/lmQifSJ2u/vw WdIM/e53HkJKNT9gufc2cp8UU8wqoXpvrS5a4rUEz1/fzd1RaKAQ4Axb5DjRPasPtWtc YPYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=PIGGCpcmpVeQG5lew9sJok/0+5R8S9kdmi99ylkT4bA=; b=CF/I8IsiWoHmlFWjUKtrolky4Ubb2i0tSfAMWyN2mpcycjys2AiMpNEHVgkR8rGa3Q YA4Vvj0Btlj6ovTLGItkDfhqyWM7yYUMBylgGUHVwdvFe56ED5xNBM4X4SGazIKlNj2y DitE8bosLD214PBinK3TQE1M0g0KGsItUIODlI8aqREF+MuCalSsQSPkoMoF5J9wv0oN VxRtsJTvWOKVAoGVGiN3mlGSZ696KthXesO/D5Pvo0xVzJHbyojCm3YCWIvyJVtmzI1L UxdIkAA+U1fAjH0jYl7VnhV+qEz3SdzKEwY/HsugaT7dhhXcLb2Md8u5/NRWg+JWqr90 Rq8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX61inUkHnG/SHhs+DlkfWSaPpzSQbk4hzYyQjvHC9HtuHbV4Jm6 4wD6v5nD6uTIVUIuTMgxw5BvCQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZ+6QL81VT19GZ92q8jBnML8Ob/CVIvpnL6y4OXaWsOfjGRuputiQjlFWp8ShJSjzJp/eOS5A== X-Received: by 10.98.163.73 with SMTP id s70mr13058192pfe.64.1510712881145; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:15c6:86bd:9d6:7dd3? ([2001:67c:370:1998:15c6:86bd:9d6:7dd3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i8sm30630336pgq.67.2017.11.14.18.27.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:28:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4AE16C55-D3BD-47D5-BF3A-771A2D1BD217" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:27:57 +0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: dhcwg To: Alexandre Petrescu References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:28:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4AE16C55-D3BD-47D5-BF3A-771A2D1BD217 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Alexandre Petrescu = wrote: > Because of many reasons. Can you list some of those reasons? --Apple-Mail=_4AE16C55-D3BD-47D5-BF3A-771A2D1BD217 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
Because of many reasons.

Can you list some of those reasons?

--Apple-Mail=_4AE16C55-D3BD-47D5-BF3A-771A2D1BD217-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 18:33:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEA1129485 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OPDMajFR2-Sr for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D26EF120724 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAF2XbYL020895; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:33:37 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id C1B51201392; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:33:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA442200D0A; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:33:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.19] ([132.166.84.19]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAF2Xagc002927; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:33:37 +0100 To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> From: Alexandru Petrescu Message-ID: <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:33:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:33:41 -0000 Le 15/11/2017 à 03:27, Ted Lemon a écrit : > On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: >> Because of many reasons. > > Can you list some of those reasons? The raw message from modem manufacturer is "clients at host side can not use DHCPv6 to get prefix from MDM [modem], they can use RS/RA to get prefix as DHCPv6 functionality is not supported in MDM". They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement DHCPv6 on the modem. The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the cellular operator. Both sides are ready, yet the middle (the 'modem') blocks 547. That's the problem. Alex From nobody Tue Nov 14 18:49:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9CB81205F0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:49:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3QjlvgasD8D9 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x235.google.com (mail-pg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2E0D1201F2 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id l19so14356743pgo.2 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=QSoaZHyUj8S8QDpRMsl0uGPbZRnBqt61iWxbgLbKGBc=; b=wQ1hNaCIwgBZbW9coNX9t8uwhfVCACq4Z187m21lyt3wN7BY5ZocUR6dPqxkxDRpx4 R4mbA7l2P15M/k4zjxAQTgl1Cb4FH33Ovpz6SVTGyVf9UEz1nmSZ9CAA+h6wc9UE/Jpb m2biCNlLd8kWMODL/CUzkwtNtUaHHP7qsER34VOD/XM4J4qXz5oKT1C9mVUVBmBMuUGi +CrYFK3r+WqSE8cX9f5iB27++Kir+M0nXUPlctPlC7kwfWm67zi1ks+VzbWHuszXQln/ vZDJ37F45ghebmQk+FdrUrq/B4jGgicVPs7zhePjIFBXFVINTKkhXv+6VzasqTZYHhev YKOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=QSoaZHyUj8S8QDpRMsl0uGPbZRnBqt61iWxbgLbKGBc=; b=hFSKHyTVjg+2a+qMAZ36ZrHV2AgTkUnZSDqoa+PV57NHNImh4S37EEsMRYYuWg+DdK iSzkjDVYZqXl985iQ4ML107wpGI9751NYvIqOFpplKyfx8qJoaz9dN4O7D0uJU9/Czcz y0NcZ9KvH7d1RqPgSg1OT39ESzCbf3yO//A7C6Cj5O70jLX3OvZhsw2feNdqJUpJ5JhQ nFgWLGfM1F/bmLQnWo5kDaZ5wEMVhe2y22L0TzAkQU/D4BjmHbCUXF7ishjgJlFKrwXe VrpnSaPpEF97YV8IBlDHFZFbxl5aSgjpqucv6LRskHfyjM6EgivPpSMd0QS3Q28E436Q O+Bg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4Ysow+OoEeGKlHtAJD8Ya0D+klUUrUUADftufPzWvDeMNtKf88 K+2Nbt2mCBQwmy5pQQsKmdrg2g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYarqpM0ZEhesJwY0KWttyLa+FV879k0ld9SxCBuUpDE+ljiNKmPu7oqHGM8KeTNM21qOcFtw== X-Received: by 10.84.143.68 with SMTP id 62mr14443743ply.315.1510714180350; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:15c6:86bd:9d6:7dd3? ([2001:67c:370:1998:15c6:86bd:9d6:7dd3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l22sm46251977pfk.45.2017.11.14.18.49.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EE2AC7D7-7D9F-4D4B-B5EF-5FC0D7B92E00" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:49:37 +0800 In-Reply-To: <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> Cc: dhcwg To: Alexandru Petrescu References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:49:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EE2AC7D7-7D9F-4D4B-B5EF-5FC0D7B92E00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu = wrote: > They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement DHCPv6 on the = modem. The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the cellular operator. Both = sides are ready, yet the middle (the 'modem') blocks 547. >=20 > That's the problem. I'm confused. I thought you were saying that we can't do ND, but it = sounds like what we can't do is DHCP. And the reason we can't do it is = a misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue. --Apple-Mail=_EE2AC7D7-7D9F-4D4B-B5EF-5FC0D7B92E00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
They dont understand that nobody asks = them to implement DHCPv6 on the modem.  The DHCPv6 happens between = ARM and the cellular operator.  Both sides are ready, yet the = middle (the 'modem') blocks 547.

That's the = problem.

I'm= confused.   I thought you were saying that we can't do ND, but it = sounds like what we can't do is DHCP.   And the reason we can't do = it is a misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue.

= --Apple-Mail=_EE2AC7D7-7D9F-4D4B-B5EF-5FC0D7B92E00-- From nobody Tue Nov 14 23:48:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA11127B52 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:48:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLhS8KNo5LTr for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22c.google.com (mail-pg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DA0F1270A0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id s75so17442866pgs.0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:48:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FU7aZE1JOWY5Atmzy/PtqAPjm1igAHvmIJ8SeuYaBGc=; b=BFJOxey7rTifPUlKK5Utdx++8o5cO78KJ3t+tu6VniNRKMtZAKMCTYv83a8FU9FAPx X7c/pmyjpjCma81smvKOJ+uTfg7FqJSAa5Z0CoUznPqTntaRHok12A1ejP+6nWLjNpbl jqHCRlZQlMVweK6+4vXEMSmqHoNjFYiQQSzJTYswYukcFeA2keNcx8BuHnJs4rJyntDZ ESc9dyv3HoNEMecQVqLw2X0J050mGO1Cild9afJzV2z46phKaVdl0UqtNjNcLBSttUxz wfUUz1hpDqYXIKfuYAHq1jTYFURfCRbQgHB53JIYPlpOX3aPJMj85qMibhbWhbO53HvM XEgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FU7aZE1JOWY5Atmzy/PtqAPjm1igAHvmIJ8SeuYaBGc=; b=OhgzA2g9nOl+eA+RoHlgpJ6h6WSRJRRo2Mvi39KeRQgd/MsFG2VybWgTSv09cg4TXL PUqhNuwxGm6xFG6lZkF3GkdcCQ1lVfWQWZCAaGzc4e0QeFlF6uxxcjFDIwBmBDoa02DU oOYL5EA+9oxBUGdTaCOuzxd3PJdxG+jPbNFqHO/PbfXFOkVDZiYl2uVxN9x/hU7OQ6+O tmz2e1CJ41SBRQG/Taog7/VJa90nTi5+/3WhhSpvEmKlFcAsvAmXW/bKfW/6/mDrdPbU ROD4188u6E+upqBGScuVLXundz4J/IbNKqxqYZJnGL0EjqgmYaXIy4NiG49erEdp81D2 qV2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5UCvh//aEQKundHIXPhQqqd6qX0n41Yf1R6g8s2wRjubFSBiHI 6TIiLmMBXp8SrgZMZtC/OqR8pg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbdNyiZcx/Y4afPElhUtazuUGXy40FlvvUsJ5BIMhBoIafwr2vwTKTjLLjX5jCwl8FELlYMBA== X-Received: by 10.84.233.10 with SMTP id j10mr15348299plk.14.1510732128712; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:f0fc:6e82:aa9c:26e5? ([2001:67c:370:128:f0fc:6e82:aa9c:26e5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j68sm34210554pgc.6.2017.11.14.23.48.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:48:48 -0800 (PST) From: Alexandre Petrescu X-Google-Original-From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> Message-ID: <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:48:45 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 07:48:51 -0000 Le 15/11/2017 à 03:49, Ted Lemon a écrit : > On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu > > wrote: >> They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement DHCPv6 on the >> modem.  The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the cellular operator. >>  Both sides are ready, yet the middle (the 'modem') blocks 547. >> >> That's the problem. > > I'm confused.   I thought you were saying that we can't do ND, but it > sounds like what we can't do is DHCP.   And the reason we can't do it is > a misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue. I was saying the DHCPv6+ND is unsolved in cellular. It is not a protocol issue but a hardware problem. There are protocol solutions to the hardware problems, like ability to vary port numbers. Or we can further wait for hardware issues to be solved, if ever. Alex > From nobody Wed Nov 15 00:50:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F4112953F for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:50:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=marples.name Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xcIw0hJc8bpS for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.marples.name (relay.marples.name [IPv6:2001:41d0:302:2100::2f63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67B82129447 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.marples.name (cpc115040-bour7-2-0-cust370.15-1.cable.virginm.net [81.108.15.115]) by relay.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1DC51C0EE for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:50:04 +0000 (GMT) Authentication-Results: relay.marples.name; dmarc=pass header.from=marples.name Authentication-Results: relay.marples.name; dkim=pass reason="1024-bit key; unprotected key" header.d=marples.name header.i=@marples.name header.b=nz4Q8WP3; dkim-adsp=pass; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from uberpc.marples.name (uberpc.marples.name [10.73.2.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85B8E62E9E1; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:49:54 +0000 (GMT) Authentication-Results: mail.marples.name; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=marples.name DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=marples.name; s=mail; t=1510735794; bh=by8HEt8wqoHPivVraS4sUFPtzPu34CCc/NJNapjIdEQ=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=nz4Q8WP3MnDv/HKcFxyZnTIR1qaS7zZoY0ilIZRzUKwR2cmfbm12yczCr1Ybo+f6Q j9kOQaLW7gQp+A6odtznAk8JLq3RwrVdzYNamHuhd140mtBpmpUijYdY/vjZuJnw2P 3sDATlvob/DDgl4DUfETIUKS6bQBw+FT0TnbXzSE= To: Ted Lemon , "Templin, Fred L" Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Alexandre Petrescu , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Roy Marples Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:50:03 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:50:08 -0000 On 20/10/17 20:52, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: >> Sorry I am late to this discussion, but AERO uses link-local source >> address for >> all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I >> have been working with. > > It's actually nonsensical to use some other address.   One of the > purposes of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server assumes you > already have one, how's that going to work? That's not true. Often you need to use a non link-local source address when the server sends OPTION_UNICAST with a non link-local address and you want to renew the lease. Roy From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:07:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4D8128C82 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VNfHLztx4cW3 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com (mail-io0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A3AF1287A7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 134so878817ioo.0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WEhAa9wbrZWwy0aNiCVVzFhEFMyPs4Tn2IdSVmqEB7Y=; b=A8pyikb4dqcii23cs8aN/tuL7tZPgQU24M0f4tVfYXN9s+EyqXFo/gpkUo58Yazoot Igkh3pw9FNALjonJMQZCk9WgGJnlo0bMkXyFKfJUZY5m0MDiNyFCF1rH4WRPd4m6jgyu GsawJJKhm8vi81o7QsAFHv3vGrHL3CO+DScjq+jF2Or8Ctcqym6HmMhSmPlRhiyzEFPy DG26/j/iFnBobzODvsDtUAwPwGR9GUCsQzuN88AujnnlDzJ44CLZE8shCgehxZ+mZwCb VugJFyUso/1CUMc7AGEguoTkZDu9nnfd5yX0mYrlc1fpbGZ+WPwREmgeo5fsV0i5hCqy 3Zmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WEhAa9wbrZWwy0aNiCVVzFhEFMyPs4Tn2IdSVmqEB7Y=; b=DU7bb3b43vV/d5x1Xu1M6dSg8bZwPWvw3B2BIUNTAk5J0qQ2mwmZm5+e3buUDxKKvR VTE1oJ7TqlR6wGwjKbeeY5sOM84Fi5gz9lYeCoISFKZWifJ2G+mYgZILNmzRvYZKVTVC EgdcGZ3LZqQwPr6UQfqvGyMy/JFVzyUpVwheZ4A2IvfWtiy0FaNLT7ONzCNMXfNTcVJs x+OuNJh5gyC05ruPX3IvCYgaTp2ahpjDKlvOzpTrnwoQFP9LGfYUdDnydAtaJPFsHkwt AhjdycpPSQJSgXl8bdkygWZ4+Lj22vRY7XH/w5Vo4AGgjPWnJHw/k1WvJyZj7Jh7Fg1S EA+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5eApYUJGcCwYYncCpGoihp/Om/2qXnOZ+cqhEZF6zT1ZyPOtOT NzXvpLK93SjFVXbgUc9qFEMxooa31AiNsI6xKr1bgQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaemL12SSs5EJaTQfyRGDbR96o56QZvsmyLByzLKRMRA2x/wrS6q3knDGdjhkM3sIyCgtcJ/EeJEFQKujcMh9o= X-Received: by 10.107.168.224 with SMTP id e93mr15738693ioj.266.1510736832615; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:07:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:07:12 +0800 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: dhcwg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114279d641ec62055e01d4d9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:07:14 -0000 --001a114279d641ec62055e01d4d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How can it be a hardware problem? Bits are bits. Don't you mean "a problem with software that runs on a particular hardware platform?" On Nov 15, 2017 15:48, "Alexandre Petrescu" wrote: > > > Le 15/11/2017 =C3=A0 03:49, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit : > >> On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu < >> alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com > >> wrote: >> >>> They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement DHCPv6 on the >>> modem. The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the cellular operator. Both >>> sides are ready, yet the middle (the 'modem') blocks 547. >>> >>> That's the problem. >>> >> >> I'm confused. I thought you were saying that we can't do ND, but it >> sounds like what we can't do is DHCP. And the reason we can't do it is= a >> misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue. >> > > I was saying the DHCPv6+ND is unsolved in cellular. It is not a protocol > issue but a hardware problem. > > There are protocol solutions to the hardware problems, like ability to > vary port numbers. > > Or we can further wait for hardware issues to be solved, if ever. > > Alex > > >> --001a114279d641ec62055e01d4d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How can it be a hardware problem?=C2=A0 Bits are bits. Do= n't you mean "a problem with software that runs on a particular ha= rdware platform?"

On Nov 15, 2017 15:48, "Alexandre Petrescu" <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:


Le 15/11/2017 =C3=A0 03:49, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote:
They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement DHCPv6 on the modem= .=C2=A0 The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the cellular operator.=C2=A0 Bot= h sides are ready, yet the middle (the 'modem') blocks 547.

That's the problem.

I'm confused. =C2=A0 I thought you were saying that we can't do ND,= but it sounds like what we can't do is DHCP. =C2=A0 And the reason we = can't do it is a misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue.

I was saying the DHCPv6+ND is unsolved in cellular.=C2=A0 It is not a proto= col issue but a hardware problem.

There are protocol solutions to the hardware problems, like ability to vary= port numbers.

Or we can further wait for hardware issues to be solved, if ever.

Alex


--001a114279d641ec62055e01d4d9-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:09:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F048E128C82 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PyK0j0fVWbSq for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x230.google.com (mail-it0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 778DA1287A7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x230.google.com with SMTP id x28so974823ita.0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5EOCS/lRAE6suq/f20SdgAtTiyNZyryVpYFhU3IBhIQ=; b=EhjiadEM0WRyvBCQQNO2A/sBtlYKeQf+96bUtbp/0h7zkQZSNPBU4NV9x5iamlOKzf m6Xbow/a/QjxP9INA13MWkENuuVg3ZpXx9lIkrG0v+cf7CW4lCdrtTbRkQpQyBttWMLx eE+91Bg1ARLljQ4eH3HYuSHn2BXJ8ydtgBLO9ze9bGQTNIAPm5vssgKGzyrgP19r4+wC NGYRQMU6gbqK/VDtki0yptE8n3a98a/XcEhxB+IUkIptwx7RuJSTh50eb0jmxudrgOAM XUDEn6LXXNX8KxEvX2dF41pPa3uCkBIvDL42JvQosIlsIceq5w6HUBLBnPGISBarKiR7 akFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5EOCS/lRAE6suq/f20SdgAtTiyNZyryVpYFhU3IBhIQ=; b=pDN3FldztTc7JzdIz+agJ3bsBkiWdMbEx3Dle2MSPF7qasePPp2vTvX2DtMswMfrJX XU2vrX7xat5IOnx4jT1zzTWOir3DU/xJqV0cfmq15qDR0H9PzZhRuX/L/MuCJjbBrMmK igoIq8r/ZSZhfhaO2An+T0WynVqhFhwGXGeoyfkPOoDDmd8y2YUSJnOgNRGnOCD/2OVG vS+3zxGAMtvexp5gZsoEilYUZyM7F2fkXSphJqaKao+clohOSM++FGIjNJU3ykXi/R5H AWyX5LWZ/sgFEZnUbpRZ4fe2Z7jRPuxfflC2MuPwiaVg2tzMrN30OGZeInJNHITcIx3Y zSdw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5lq1WSEnm+1Gg3M+WayCYDXxMM5/kHy0IPuYragpOX6vzvarR7 CxnhsQyoS0Kji+cOysQzRgSrqSDuf4fJZPQR6X8vig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaVih4GKPbwtwXioZim2Bb6dsoJIbCXk6EbS94QuoL1MAPby/XTvv9LV/0ypYUc+rEXdtMA4wtxlK3y8sCecmQ= X-Received: by 10.36.166.75 with SMTP id r11mr12147151iti.41.1510736965829; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:09:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:09:25 +0800 Message-ID: To: Roy Marples Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , dhcwg , Alexandre Petrescu , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045fae04329a7e055e01dc4a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:09:28 -0000 --f403045fae04329a7e055e01dc4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I would have to review, but isn't unicast support optional? On Nov 15, 2017 16:50, "Roy Marples" wrote: > On 20/10/17 20:52, Ted Lemon wrote: > >> On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L > > wrote: >> >>> Sorry I am late to this discussion, but AERO uses link-local source >>> address for >>> all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I >>> have been working with. >>> >> >> It's actually nonsensical to use some other address. One of the >> purposes of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server assumes you already >> have one, how's that going to work? >> > > That's not true. > Often you need to use a non link-local source address when the server > sends OPTION_UNICAST with a non link-local address and you want to renew > the lease. > > Roy > --f403045fae04329a7e055e01dc4a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would have to review, but isn't unicast support opt= ional?

On No= v 15, 2017 16:50, "Roy Marples" <roy@marples.name> wrote:
On 20/10/17 20:52, Ted Lemon wrote:
On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mail= to:Fred.L.Te= mplin@boeing.com>> wrote:
Sorry I am late to this discussion, but AERO uses link-local source address= for
all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I have been working with.

It's actually nonsensical to use some other address. =C2=A0 One of the = purposes of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server assumes you already = have one, how's that going to work?

That's not true.
Often you need to use a non link-local source address when the server sends= OPTION_UNICAST with a non link-local address and you want to renew the lea= se.

Roy
--f403045fae04329a7e055e01dc4a-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:10:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE53E128C82 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TGZhJ6toBRJm for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x22e.google.com (mail-io0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB66F1287A7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id z74so862114iof.12 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GwBFegmAJ8FCyLr6ydt7+qmeeH0AlQGl2zMYjxSdVxA=; b=qyunXbe2krzxQQzaz5R2zepvnd3+/f+bnPr7u0eQM/M+DxBFQcdB5Z+4CHm3OQlFWj XveaX8NaKY6JNqBuA0ruexNL1sE4u0yT2jU78MCH6h4yioOC5L5/HyV3yAFciFfi/5RI dLY+gDxhx+zcn6koqVFb5yXj8CU4GVoLDWx3evAceUEnQy2dgn2EHrCc6Dkc1qm3aBZr c30rwmFNu4HBLW2r0G2NfupTMxOIXGofO4m75Mdw844xxt2/7sulpL+UAXcqK/7bBsct ArBQUM9000SQuvx0d/FFVgYwWg0OTkUdmmt3QM3dnbPh2xBiH8OOZsifDOsbCzy1kTb3 jd+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GwBFegmAJ8FCyLr6ydt7+qmeeH0AlQGl2zMYjxSdVxA=; b=jI8l6Fz4OJJRlDVOLmLxH6s6ZIsWpZDIFMWHQzeKGJYN6P8mzy2jWF6gBsOMCwwYpw UqYYOcmoqky9dS7qVLV9ZNJOD4x7oGLWFOJKQmzjw2Q1qLA2zqd+xR3u2Aqxdm43NxSm O53o/LcjZ7aM01MCscFtsFcxIr/tSiDwMmQLWdr3ajd8SIBVyaYi/LKp5ne1Rix83P7q LaE/ia61+PNGz/P5s3OH9YTHk0u4bfLQSsjC/dfDVu8JIngmdh5UlAzbxHw2VL4VnklM 8EsApw82MXS/KOAYMmVv/hIclYQNL5Jy+TXEpuXoJGlqSi6GiS7xvLkOJQ389HKpxKfY 2M3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4iQR+4Ru35tEroRPSkBSZK1shJMjXxbBhhs+oa6Mu1RiFjlpCH BDKXS3LqO8FvN5otUFKmXS/2H0RcZlF55+j3SR5acQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMblkOJuW9zoU0UZQWLzV6nBx680PnJjZNt4/wT1UJPkhuOS3zGdoKho7zyOkex8E+S8kePEutxh+QaEZREZa6Q= X-Received: by 10.107.83.12 with SMTP id h12mr17713162iob.13.1510737007882; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.15.203 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:10:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:10:07 +0800 Message-ID: To: Roy Marples Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , dhcwg , Alexandre Petrescu , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08268470b44e7f055e01de23" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:10:11 -0000 --089e08268470b44e7f055e01de23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Also, it's not nonsensical to use an address once you have one. On Nov 15, 2017 16:50, "Roy Marples" wrote: > On 20/10/17 20:52, Ted Lemon wrote: > >> On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L > > wrote: >> >>> Sorry I am late to this discussion, but AERO uses link-local source >>> address for >>> all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I >>> have been working with. >>> >> >> It's actually nonsensical to use some other address. One of the >> purposes of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server assumes you already >> have one, how's that going to work? >> > > That's not true. > Often you need to use a non link-local source address when the server > sends OPTION_UNICAST with a non link-local address and you want to renew > the lease. > > Roy > --089e08268470b44e7f055e01de23 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Also, it's not nonsensical to use an address once you= have one.=C2=A0

On Nov 15, 2017 16:50, "Roy Marples" <roy@marples.name> wrote:
On 20/10/17 20:52, Ted Lemon wrote:
On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mail= to:Fred.L.Te= mplin@boeing.com>> wrote:
Sorry I am late to this discussion, but AERO uses link-local source address= for
all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I have been working with.

It's actually nonsensical to use some other address. =C2=A0 One of the = purposes of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server assumes you already = have one, how's that going to work?

That's not true.
Often you need to use a non link-local source address when the server sends= OPTION_UNICAST with a non link-local address and you want to renew the lea= se.

Roy
--089e08268470b44e7f055e01de23-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:57:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503401243FE for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:57:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qiyCUDDnRx-z for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22f.google.com (mail-pf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2FD1124205 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id u70so11861122pfa.7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:57:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QoE6wgsfHg4j5EPL+AKYJO5LRFLfME8t9ImYABqRZZg=; b=I1oc9EhkqsgBRjRaVrncW7Z+AgbNOmj6w95I/c86IFzDUcwgyBfhqm9f+vApOQvPtp 0lmcCFRMFOfGh0yqXv76yY4I3wrHvYnXSiCili/qypWvfIeMffYZXmj91E0OaKLD1Gqb WFbpMVVcoFgrMNtiuk0jZ1xjSkeIzEyGnGceuKn0agQdgTrTltyXQs4h8IV53Cm4Tb3r 6q5PDNptotc7oUYSrndPNcsHpjABbGCrn3h+5oLyhsgjcWPqa+lRPlcZsh5m/rgSi4P7 X7OIFVK2jVmI75y5ieLTgoQfJX5gdXaRdEVPpwKjLRZpd2ndTQ/W6YJ4f3J7sOhYNrOS 0eEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QoE6wgsfHg4j5EPL+AKYJO5LRFLfME8t9ImYABqRZZg=; b=LarL1tdwF6PjQdcLs6pMG6aWvqvLm/R+pBacvhkMryR84LStaHHDjDiioA4ZRO5J+v 0J+JVV2q1bw58WpHh5tbc6LtOsbl4aO0GvnaR3YmLY0nXxujynNkYDRW+o0DMtnG4Yws 1RMoZmLWNa38fwRieVCeBZfO1ypWZxXcQ2+WTINPQLvcpPYk2m06fMB63i01XKBu5Ian meEpEbj23L4bdbh+aj4B5BMfCJANQTYL9eu9ANsjsZBrk/hm4oH9ZkcVgNbSWwuC5h0g 6XHoe66LO+4IpZJNEXYHRFT0Dl4rXctQuYpyd6o2E6fehfAasrABiJGG8gB0WER1aZdF xBtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6rt3WlNAk86ZI01nF2IWOkEKHKjcKif6sdwOc8gDQMdzdGOBiK dhJ3FNkMbaf6rkCnLfXm4/vhiw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZ2rv0COVac39R9j1hUVPqE1He0zvfZtdsO25fizF5Bu5mALQZK9+NSiFWW0y9DDX/Ax0rwIA== X-Received: by 10.99.121.140 with SMTP id u134mr14702656pgc.16.1510739822172; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:4946:b5a:44ee:4478? ([2001:67c:370:1998:4946:b5a:44ee:4478]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d68sm16465992pfl.38.2017.11.15.01.56.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:57:01 -0800 (PST) From: Alexandre Petrescu X-Google-Original-From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Ted Lemon Cc: dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:56:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:57:04 -0000 YEs, a problem with software that runs on a particular hardware problem. Another problem with that software too, is that it is closed source and a very high price to buy. Moreover, it is almost forbidden to modify it by other company than the writer. Very many people were tempted to fix that software but it looks very hard to access. Alex Le 15/11/2017 à 10:07, Ted Lemon a écrit : > How can it be a hardware problem?  Bits are bits. Don't you mean "a > problem with software that runs on a particular hardware platform?" > > On Nov 15, 2017 15:48, "Alexandre Petrescu" > > wrote: > > > > Le 15/11/2017 à 03:49, Ted Lemon a écrit : > > On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu > > >> wrote: > > They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement > DHCPv6 on the modem.  The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the > cellular operator.  Both sides are ready, yet the middle > (the 'modem') blocks 547. > > That's the problem. > > > I'm confused.   I thought you were saying that we can't do ND, > but it sounds like what we can't do is DHCP.   And the reason we > can't do it is a misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue. > > > I was saying the DHCPv6+ND is unsolved in cellular.  It is not a > protocol issue but a hardware problem. > > There are protocol solutions to the hardware problems, like ability > to vary port numbers. > > Or we can further wait for hardware issues to be solved, if ever. > > Alex > > From nobody Wed Nov 15 01:58:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C9F912944B for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:58:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=marples.name Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VjR5SxXdw1i0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:58:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.marples.name (relay.marples.name [IPv6:2001:41d0:302:2100::2f63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AEF01243FE for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:58:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.marples.name (cpc115040-bour7-2-0-cust370.15-1.cable.virginm.net [81.108.15.115]) by relay.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E153D1C0EE for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:58:44 +0000 (GMT) Authentication-Results: relay.marples.name; dmarc=pass header.from=marples.name Authentication-Results: relay.marples.name; dkim=pass reason="1024-bit key; unprotected key" header.d=marples.name header.i=@marples.name header.b=Qs9H34lb; dkim-adsp=pass; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from [10.73.2.50] (lt-roy-pc01.marples.name [10.73.2.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9BB5362E9F3; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:58:34 +0000 (GMT) Authentication-Results: mail.marples.name; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=marples.name DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=marples.name; s=mail; t=1510739914; bh=xt5mqyytRbMqP+iBjJhb6Nu8KNMrrc09Nf+2AKWEODI=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Qs9H34lbWJzfgbqkbsY4mzLsQGCvkYCBZuKdsD6LRdivVzByGKaGHBYHtQFl35YlB w9x3rVf5b8GP8ichEJ/YI/7NF6TE+66GTqtctu1ZaOsme+NgomWbYSx2G5XQDyVRw9 IDPiXC2OiFm7EcPEDFp+tU+VG0qBFVZH+DKP97DI= To: Ted Lemon Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , dhcwg , Alexandre Petrescu , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Roy Marples Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:59:31 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:58:47 -0000 On 15/11/2017 09:09, Ted Lemon wrote: > I would have to review, but isn't unicast support optional? Yes it is as written in the RFC. However, during development of dhcpcd there are at least two upstreams who don't renew if it's not unicast when the unicast option is given. Roy From nobody Wed Nov 15 02:01:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0F1124205 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:01:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1p1MkXNiPb02 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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Lemon , dhcwg Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AdNc+j0Y/64lorm6QoWdIRZ/749NYQAQ1/GAAAFUfgAAAr3+gAAOYLwAAADMTIAAGDHRgAAAEGSAAAAyXoAAAI9ZgAAKcnaAAAK9ZgAAAbymAP//nLoJ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:01:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FA0DADA0CD1645389E7119922AD106B9ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: 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localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E17129584 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:31:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=marples.name Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iA1CA3Q5xV1l for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.marples.name (relay.marples.name [137.74.41.71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72D0712954B for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:31:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.marples.name (cpc115040-bour7-2-0-cust370.15-1.cable.virginm.net [81.108.15.115]) by relay.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE2F31C0EE for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:31:31 +0000 (GMT) Authentication-Results: relay.marples.name; dmarc=pass header.from=marples.name Authentication-Results: relay.marples.name; dkim=pass reason="1024-bit key; unprotected key" header.d=marples.name header.i=@marples.name header.b=LJ2ukXqi; dkim-adsp=pass; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from [10.73.2.50] (lt-roy-pc01.marples.name [10.73.2.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.marples.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F7C762E9FE; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:31:21 +0000 (GMT) Authentication-Results: mail.marples.name; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=marples.name DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=marples.name; s=mail; t=1510741881; bh=K79AwcfDWrJOar/1VcNShWBBATH2/BNcF05gPqEYQO8=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=LJ2ukXqi0ujp3lSWPFfGza/154C7niyDdFs2gjk1L73dAhbPERlc1Fg1ODoK4BegZ qMWBLwNK0DMm/9r9iT7FR555nNrfEOEl4BMBfBUZu/AwIPAuq+p3hfsJdAW9ekEY4O 5oe015Li3UxBfkdSBbIBs5LpeICl23wqTMk6NwT8= To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , Alexandre Petrescu References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Roy Marples Message-ID: <94c43dcb-ae27-d55b-83b5-2b8808f5a5f6@marples.name> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:32:18 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:31:35 -0000 You are correct. What I don't understand is if it's optional, why does the option exist in the first place if people here are saying not to use it? Roy On 15/11/2017 10:03, Bernie Volz (volz) wrote: > If I understand you, there is no requirement that unicast be used & so > the servers (upstreams) are broken. > > - Bernie (from iPhone) > > On Nov 15, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Roy Marples > wrote: > >> On 15/11/2017 09:09, Ted Lemon wrote: >>> I would have to review, but isn't unicast support optional? >> >> Yes it is as written in the RFC. >> >> However, during development of dhcpcd there are at least two upstreams >> who don't renew if it's not unicast when the unicast option is given. >> >> Roy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Wed Nov 15 02:36:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6901D12706D for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q6JLk9WOtcjy for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x236.google.com (mail-pf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA2B7126C0F for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id t69so7745553pfg.4 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:36:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=aw1Y+JSCQB0xtu7LjQFi1DPLvcKgHOvC6Uv6G4HKlrg=; b=glQydeZ0BXE+oDtQMqR3SOgfV5+n57Si6fzORAeEB3dD43dA1yEudJfMLqgM+vJNIt 7X02n5AyP0Om50umjIcNN5fQ1irI3YGsEAPVkaRYPEMYQf1XQCXJvYrldUYrQkZStM8E fIp/nNLW99JIneVuzVkiMDx9h3Gpe7mO9PjFy0rTTwiGYGYaf9SlAGUTojw4cUq/5zVI l7LGE1DdCsLdq4U/W69wzDc33H4TzwdrTpDsGNDD98dwc9kRWWqKx5atk47t0UZ0EQTA bJXvHfkhYPPRiHn6vOwJTsFdvBD6lhG2m/HzC74q/6wK6P2vrMeQwqEeQyDxJ10FtHDh xN1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=aw1Y+JSCQB0xtu7LjQFi1DPLvcKgHOvC6Uv6G4HKlrg=; b=MNig6zpKN+enSmEik9nighVz975BJG15DjHAExgrvuq/Ex9Om9GFWKJX0D/BjgWypi MunKYiez7oRztHNf+jTJRUWzYYDiIMlkFItEjoPfPXQtEa9MwdslW6OiV1jtgFYMWEA2 iJfDjomnAsDWMmtdeVShvbeKimdzQcH6wWXaZiLDBbEs02DFtSZJw/0OU4eTbkJ31yoh M1sa6KS0gKfdOWjllOD77adSolBHmJ/1imFpt3t4/0wiTgfzjAvOEAhFiw1MCZZub2NW UJKqa9sk2K0y/C+vA+K0g0JcjgySqWkBh9rfCAwFfX2LLXO2bcYHcJbVBsItQREwBqQv b0bg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7q4Z0FpZkGf2ivYdqQ3DTvx4y0wymxUEqGqavsW/icyaH49aKd k7eUkT7pZmg69whgO43VqFd/AA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZbzDm47FlhSnHL9fO0NOONW8RPs11VXwkE0fRC4BJ3OlkpCflmwqM2l0q/J/GiYMr6a8rSRQ== X-Received: by 10.84.131.12 with SMTP id 12mr15294169pld.418.1510742194397; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:edb0:a8f9:dd20:7496? ([2001:67c:370:1998:edb0:a8f9:dd20:7496]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w184sm14778257pgb.36.2017.11.15.02.36.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_726F1675-1353-4569-8A29-78CD5E6DA664" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 18:36:27 +0800 In-Reply-To: <94c43dcb-ae27-d55b-83b5-2b8808f5a5f6@marples.name> Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , dhcwg , Alexandre Petrescu To: Roy Marples References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <94c43dcb-ae27-d55b-83b5-2b8808f5a5f6@marples.name> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:36:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_726F1675-1353-4569-8A29-78CD5E6DA664 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 15, 2017, at 6:32 PM, Roy Marples wrote: > What I don't understand is if it's optional, why does the option exist = in the first place if people here are saying not to use it? The point is that even if you use it, you still can't use it for the = initial message. --Apple-Mail=_726F1675-1353-4569-8A29-78CD5E6DA664 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 15, 2017, at 6:32 PM, Roy Marples <roy@marples.name> = wrote:
What I don't = understand is if it's optional, why does the option exist in the first = place if people here are saying not to use it?

The = point is that even if you use it, you still can't use it for the initial = message.

= --Apple-Mail=_726F1675-1353-4569-8A29-78CD5E6DA664-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 05:36:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C546B12714F for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:36:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EdjSgY5kr-Jd for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D06128DF6 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 05:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAFDa6YH020864; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:36:06 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FF3C203D5A; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:36:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200B4201624; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:36:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.19] ([132.166.84.19]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAFDa3Ci032072; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:36:04 +0100 To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" Cc: Ted Lemon , dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> From: Alexandru Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:36:02 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:36:18 -0000 I am afraid there is no 3GPP modem for smartphone that lets DHCPv6 through. Qualcomm blocks multicast UDP 547 whereas Balong blocks multicast altogether. I do need a modem to connect on 4G, LTE-V2X and pre-5G that does let DHCPv6 through. But I would like to ask you: if no such modem exist on the market, why not modifying the DHCPv6 protocol to work on non-547 ports and on unicast? Alex Le 15/11/2017 à 11:01, Bernie Volz (volz) a écrit : > I don’t see how this is an IETF issue. Push pn the vendor to fix it; or > don’t buy it. > > - Bernie (from iPhone) > > On Nov 15, 2017, at 5:57 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > > wrote: > >> YEs, a problem with software that runs on a particular hardware problem. >> >> Another problem with that software too, is that it is closed source >> and a very high price to buy.  Moreover, it is almost forbidden to >> modify it by other company than the writer. >> >> Very many people were tempted to fix that software but it looks very >> hard to access. >> >> Alex >> >> Le 15/11/2017 à 10:07, Ted Lemon a écrit : >>> How can it be a hardware problem?  Bits are bits. Don't you mean "a >>> problem with software that runs on a particular hardware platform?" >>> On Nov 15, 2017 15:48, "Alexandre Petrescu" >>> >>> > wrote: >>>    Le 15/11/2017 à 03:49, Ted Lemon a écrit : >>>        On Nov 15, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Alexandru Petrescu >>>        >> >>>         >>>        >>        >> wrote: >>>            They dont understand that nobody asks them to implement >>>            DHCPv6 on the modem.  The DHCPv6 happens between ARM and the >>>            cellular operator.  Both sides are ready, yet the middle >>>            (the 'modem') blocks 547. >>>            That's the problem. >>>        I'm confused.   I thought you were saying that we can't do ND, >>>        but it sounds like what we can't do is DHCP.   And the reason we >>>        can't do it is a misconfigured middlebox, not a protocol issue. >>>    I was saying the DHCPv6+ND is unsolved in cellular.  It is not a >>>    protocol issue but a hardware problem. >>>    There are protocol solutions to the hardware problems, like ability >>>    to vary port numbers. >>>    Or we can further wait for hardware issues to be solved, if ever. >>>    Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Wed Nov 15 06:10:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578D7127775 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:10:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2fvNrsRSKSm6 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57A54124BFA for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C707D60E57; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:10:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.24]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id A2A90C0079; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:10:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9044:c5ee:4dd2:4f16%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:10:17 +0100 From: To: Ted Lemon , "Templin, Fred L" CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , Alexandre Petrescu , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA Thread-Index: AQHTSLnBoUSoiuDof0qTYY4Ba4GewaLrlquAgAGggeD//+CZgIAoiihw Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:10:16 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07ADAF@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <149869621720.6575.278128190348174876@ietfa.amsl.com> <08e4e953-3a68-d6cb-6066-f60514ef0ac5@gmail.com> <3285281858d043649d507b6bda7b8646@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <1f94b780-59c1-42ce-936d-0c8a71143444@gmail.com> <37917a26062f4e4c9715d324604e4d01@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <35558A79-C176-4D71-9E91-4BDB19DDD006@cisco.com> <67ba54d2-d53f-82bf-93c9-1b92631ef4e8@gmail.com> <86409a9acb7846ddbdff42c58328e7d6@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <2fbc8325961c49a1944e3ee216fcb032@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <4c25045f863a4e368f58a5a4a3917bde@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <37918108-c5ed-a82d-2d97-227388ec25d0@gmail.com> <1A785964-1088-4081-B7DC-58E3CD9B0605@cisco.com> <9bad26dc5b2d42ee9cca47adb32eedc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07ADAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:10:21 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07ADAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ted, There are networks where the host gets first a /64, and then uses DHCP-PD t= o get a longer prefix (e.g., /56). You can refer to RFC 6603, for example. It may be tempting for some to restrict prefix delegation only to hosts tha= t are already assigned a /64 is such case (that is, assume that the solicit= request will be from a GUA address), but I do personally think this will l= ead to troubles given that a host does not have a clear guidance on which a= ddress to pick. Cheers, Med De : dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Ted Lemon Envoy=E9 : vendredi 20 octobre 2017 22:53 =C0 : Templin, Fred L Cc : dhcwg@ietf.org; Alexandre Petrescu; Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.txt - question= s about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L > wrote: Sorry I am late to this discussion, but AERO uses link-local source address= for all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I have been working with. It's actually nonsensical to use some other address. One of the purposes = of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server assumes you already have one,= how's that going to work? --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07ADAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ted,

 

There are networks where the ho= st gets first a /64, and then uses DHCP-PD to get a longer prefix (e.g., /5= 6). You can refer to RFC 6603, for example.

 

It may be tempting for some to = restrict prefix delegation only to hosts that are already assigned a /64 is= such case (that is, assume that the solicit request will be from a GUA address), but I do personally think this will lead to t= roubles given that a host does not have a clear guidance on which address t= o pick.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Ted Lemon
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 20 octobre 2017 22:53
=C0 : Templin, Fred L
Cc : dhcwg@ietf.org; Alexandre Petrescu; Bernie Volz (volz)
Objet : Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-rfc3315bis-09.tx= t - questions about Solicit Prefix Delegation - src LL vs GUA

 

On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>= wrote:

Sorry I am late to this discussion, bu= t AERO uses link-local source address for
all DHCPv6 PD messaging. It works in the public domain implementations I have been working with.

 

It's actually nonsensical to use some other address.=   One of the purposes of DHCP is to get addresses, so if the server a= ssumes you already have one, how's that going to work?

 

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But I would like to ask you: if no such = modem exist on the market, why not modifying the DHCPv6 protocol to work = on non-547 ports and on unicast?

Hm, = well, as a practical matter, you can already do that.   Updating = the protocol spec to do that seems bogus, though.   What happens if = you just use a different port number on the phone and on the server, and = use unicast?

= --Apple-Mail=_F586CFFF-3649-458E-A464-915D38CF103F-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 20:28:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEE812948F for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:28:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d40BvJPETL9i for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22b.google.com (mail-pg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A04F5127419 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id z184so14292812pgd.13 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:28:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=E80tImCqUG1cTqpb+4RSJYmhhKcYuOEZnYOu0D7raRk=; b=tkfs90Tfaq7bU1Hh8ECZWJ5HMPlzslr0j0hSAwp4wMr+pPfQE68so7LS6WWPDz2O0b vyizVjTES1XNJm8N5HbLchirDiC/pLWTXe2sQumMxElP5E6qtUvkbcj+v72X4IG6YVv9 hzJuM1XkkpuY0Cs76mhoeCP0BCNkZvGc8skgh1mmqTMDYg54gkGVt4V/thbvHt8M78oU pCTeIFYIhQ4nfRDBOHhND8t6F7nVQ6oNVG5oSlOTjW+/EtOpfDd4r6fNTkXcLL7gc5pz oNm2TaOgufF4SvrZqdAIkrt4gU0JA+P9XN+K+lnQhh8UHQDgVvH78F+uYFz8f1HiuGEv Q1fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=E80tImCqUG1cTqpb+4RSJYmhhKcYuOEZnYOu0D7raRk=; b=Wg2VbZ5hgFHDQa4g6IxsRtTEb5yBbN58Xd9M8ch+NdeSXvQUYGQNWrciB2aS6wm7MP qluNUq0TUyvASPy3CjF6BoIIFK7hXEWmmraIbiElEIPETLx/tqRIiaEvRi/a2J/6oh3Z hYo/TBiyB3reVFCFYWa6gYS62cfENNxZ4Y2v2Fd1vEF6l9DGRXp7R05oK6sRQbtOLwWy q0zcvRzcCbKXzffg1SiGgWEgj1/wvsBYEzwTFRdSFAGlZte/Mxj3NQRxaFo9LKNzjBYO Bk5tqtG0wc5IJ1bICyZfJYyVJatymtm/M0629iS3HK91kYT6k3gxC6U6lz0bDdO0U3rc Rw4Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX71/PPsFjBITm4ieAZIW6+qdPCb+FK2eyzZCA9Xq6atvj3N/Iz/ 6nbZYrNvGwdPWC+OYPoMeLL9ew== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbVFHw+QOtzLkbUuykOtB1s4MIE6u4ntB5xZafeo9WxwiZeBeohZeM+RL47Z2sUxoB4L+Nl4w== X-Received: by 10.99.191.69 with SMTP id i5mr412221pgo.13.1510806531764; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:8d3a:a0dc:83bb:d4ff? ([2001:67c:370:1998:8d3a:a0dc:83bb:d4ff]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b2sm326536pgt.14.2017.11.15.20.28.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:28:50 -0800 (PST) From: Alexandre Petrescu X-Google-Original-From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Ted Lemon Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> Message-ID: <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:28:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:28:54 -0000 Le 15/11/2017 à 22:02, Ted Lemon a écrit : > On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:36 PM, Alexandru Petrescu > > > wrote: >> But I would like to ask you: if no such modem exist on the market, >> why not modifying the DHCPv6 protocol to work on non-547 ports and >> on unicast? > > Hm, well, as a practical matter, you can already do that. Yes, I already did that, between a Client and a Server that I can program. It works fine. The problem is when I try my Client talk a Server on an operational router at operator that router is not configurable with respect to the DHCPv6 port numbers. It only listens on 547 and only on multicast. They have tried to modify the 547 to something else, but that has GUI problems; the problems are reported to the manufacturer but this latter has no willingness to fix, because it is not standard. Momreover, when I say I want something different than 547 and multicast, the operational router asks for business plan in order to implement something that is non-standard. I dont have a business plan, and I dont want to make one. > Updating the protocol spec to do that seems bogus, though. What > happens if you just use a different port number on the phone and on > the server, and use unicast? In that case, the full DHCP exchange worked fine. But the delegated prefix is literally "2001:db8::/56" - a fake prefix. It is unknown at the operator. The operator does let through the DHCPv6 Advertise that has that fake prefix inside, but does not set a route for it. Even when I made my Server to put in DHCPv6 Advertise the prefix that the operator is supposed to allocate (that prefix has been communicated by an out-of-band means) the packets that use that prefix in src are not routed to the Internet, because there is no route for them. It is the DHCP Server in the operator's network that must put the prefix in DHCPv6 Advertise; it has to be this way, in order to be able to set the route accordingly. It sets it depending on parameters that are "GTP" parameters, that relate the smartphone to a tunnel. The DHCP server at operator is there, ready to receive DHCPv6 Solicits, ready to generate PD messages, ready to give a /56, ready to set routes. But it does not receive my Solicit. It does not receive my Solicit because a standard Solicit (multicast, UDP 547) is blocked by modem in smartphone. Modem in smartphone is produced by many manufactureres. One of them (widely used) says they dont want to add DHCPv6 in their modem. They dont understand nobody wants them to, and they dont understand they block 547 and multicast. My interface to them is through another party. I dont have a direct interface to them. Alex From nobody Wed Nov 15 21:29:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57713127010 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:29:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LTWzgrmC9fDy for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77E481201F2 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id s75so19808245pgs.0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:29:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=AoXBSnTlKNjP4+gQUKIqUZ7h60fj2rzLa5B+Hb9y8ys=; b=jHDmi/cosuVzwHjNZQKIA6NrOACH4qQ6t4cJoTl1OwerdMT4fDvqMYx66ymzGApNZH kzwNu0RPT0BMDWoP8MCR0xhFxVZdpeE5wq2QZhRQkzqbC4h/JLA/XT4PTWZkbfL4jU45 IQefNEDIEQ1KRcCEz2lp+gxFxO41tRjnzkuKLXKqjo6WFh5thV42Q17Q6JHymn1mZtOe FRF6JV5P6XORKO0dmNRQpF5Z6GpI2eXuNpSV3BG4lpxvmYwsX6chpi+Aq0T+4D7d8Z5U qjharN+Go3lH1jOBgSeAHO4+ajeprAWcddilHZAPS/tGLQ7h6dFhzJDM8EvfuBVWiSPt abjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=AoXBSnTlKNjP4+gQUKIqUZ7h60fj2rzLa5B+Hb9y8ys=; b=JSg6G5oU4l5oZuKwA2dXKfm5A369Stj2yYgpT5k8sVYTNkD5OXLPpnfEFAZ7JbCitM irXOfVYrNLU/INMTZJN0p1nU5SlHN0QCuLI1V7Cv7irxMkqfgIRTq7Xt6Voh45wb01Hj KyXWJfsBOKplZ0FAMBFGk2jyBtfjFBUyaywqUGojSIvzxiQ2cpw1aKZ9e9aH5XLU2awj TBmhde4CNUP0xIQZh4IWplLhx5EABkmpm9A3tWi8Z3QTVFUmIsM5ewqoAipAeKABEtfQ XdUQGktM3D9HZVulpASOtQMHj+PAcjSItajT/HygboULW+VxJsSEHYBBa/H+dxf+4yL9 rRPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6/zJE9B4L1/u07oV77tuNf+Vcs1swxJn8kcMZQ8Se8JMHpBhZJ +6k8QxexzC3oJrRa+bBzBdV9jw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaEM94I5ErJyzjD8O/hc8RlLjCskxyiVXPj3utA9hf5++GShbrKXR0a19nTMR2OXhOXhl/e7Q== X-Received: by 10.98.219.198 with SMTP id f189mr620740pfg.44.1510810181491; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:ed15:3ddd:d81c:1b31? ([2001:67c:370:1998:ed15:3ddd:d81c:1b31]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m9sm696504pff.26.2017.11.15.21.29.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:29:40 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:29:38 +0800 Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , dhcwg Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> To: Alexandre Petrescu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:29:44 -0000 I'm having trouble figuring out how changing the port would help. = You'd still have to make the same modifications. You'd still have to = define a business model. 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boundary="_000_337C5CA8BFB04F12AB0EB12DD9B840ACciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:27:59 -0000 --_000_337C5CA8BFB04F12AB0EB12DD9B840ACciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 WWVhaCwgdGhpcyBhbGwgc291bmRzIGxpa2UgbWlzc2luZyBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5IGluIGEgcHJv ZHVjdCBhbmQgdGhhdCBpc27igJl0IHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGUgSUVURiBjYW4gZml4IG9yIHNob3Vs ZCB3b3JrIGFyb3VuZC4NCg0KLSBCZXJuaWUgKGZyb20gaVBob25lKQ0KDQpPbiBOb3YgMTYsIDIw MTcsIGF0IDE6MjkgUE0sIFRlZCBMZW1vbiA8bWVsbG9uQGZ1Z3VlLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86bWVsbG9u QGZ1Z3VlLmNvbT4+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQpJJ20gaGF2aW5nIHRyb3VibGUgZmlndXJpbmcgb3V0IGhv dyBjaGFuZ2luZyB0aGUgcG9ydCB3b3VsZCBoZWxwLiAgIFlvdSdkIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUgdG8gbWFr ZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBtb2RpZmljYXRpb25zLiAgIFlvdSdkIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUgdG8gZGVmaW5lIGEg YnVzaW5lc3MgbW9kZWwuDQoNCg== --_000_337C5CA8BFB04F12AB0EB12DD9B840ACciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; 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Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:38:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mx2xbObidMud for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46A9212773A for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:38:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAG6cIhB146206; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:38:19 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id E2E9F201436; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:38:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F43200F37; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:38:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.26] ([132.166.84.26]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAG6cGEt011959; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:38:17 +0100 To: Ted Lemon Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , dhcwg References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> From: Alexandru Petrescu Message-ID: <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:38:15 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:38:26 -0000 Le 16/11/2017 à 06:29, Ted Lemon a écrit : > I'm having trouble figuring out how changing the port would help. > You'd still have to make the same modifications. You'd still have > to define a business model. _If_ there is a standard that says port number is variable, and if hardware manufacturer implements it, then it will help. If not, not. If so, this entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP networks should be forgotten. It's impossible to make it work. That puts the discussion of DHCPv6 and IPv6ND outside the 3GPP context altogether. For the business model: I am not an economist. Alex > > From nobody Wed Nov 15 22:40:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F161293E0 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:40:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hxf9h6opTjxt for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x231.google.com (mail-pf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B383A12773A for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id r62so6344935pfd.5 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:40:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=nFYhdw0YgbYjzmE27tYKsSBK/4VulIAHZ3ygfM1rfOc=; b=IIJFX4CR2n6xJxPap0tpbv4n0V+bEiNe4NCRhDosQfDuwRIQQ+TOiobFYVFsmmWE2P EnmwibbKgFXU5KVTNYQQx+/DN+LcXAjxr2QCQQ7yMXOTAet0TNUmqAIZpu2ieNI3/Vu6 bq2hqxUG81txDif0yoBzK53Lvlrpp6XXvKNiy6ce6mgiBz0G0nYU0wsxkA/ntwTfXB+i D6hADFAXcRTsO/ZRYC7wfLh2vu1jB/X6YaSlCzCZng4fGJyM1CfCVPfFak1LlwrWJzr8 k7GYysAPtAyXRJAt6/1fp0I0aXIzYzTV+32yBFLnuMIDKmhWu5w8JgxdJjMRGnIxP+C3 A4mw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=nFYhdw0YgbYjzmE27tYKsSBK/4VulIAHZ3ygfM1rfOc=; b=l5itJvhF/ZDNR+vW153fDnM1l0+Pvs7nCIw2r2XrcuDC58YYKGcSVIs7ULw3Ce0nxi GauXI4epHYz30YQ2/c15wcMEMzVmAgFFQSABXd8SefFLcW5Qx6UpTFz9c1OJKv2DFryk 0MW3Wxa8bQs5zfQSQe38vmGFwgSFNj6YrJJU/UM6Xjtf6cu+W0pp+Roj42yVoSHQ6+b4 S//lKUdgHg8ZNkQVdpD+CHSZcbhdGf0N78i0FKGLqUFLG9xVXtpmcZBo36gl6AAGikci PSvL13OS004qsAK8oKei16KkF7m+6NjeT6mdJVDVmF79FErwqzUaRhofApKoR/sZHH09 6j+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6bdVFSGTmNQveqydA31EylHDgBnYxfHl97Pnk0MYkfzWvfOIYJ anGQPgKLqANWdng8FIySHyEfXQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZXtYsxdvm8Pyel/qO3vPBnsvacJGfYNhVgazgOuTuOEae6cjJ8erKTSD4sTuWp9JaNIcHAcQ== X-Received: by 10.98.234.9 with SMTP id t9mr771262pfh.92.1510814437092; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:5032:73d8:c096:511a? ([2001:67c:1232:144:5032:73d8:c096:511a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s14sm961318pgf.50.2017.11.15.22.40.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:40:36 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BAA8F50C-2760-4A77-82CE-33221F7B0AB5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 14:40:32 +0800 In-Reply-To: <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , dhcwg To: Alexandru Petrescu References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:40:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BAA8F50C-2760-4A77-82CE-33221F7B0AB5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Nov 16, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Alexandru Petrescu = wrote: > If so, this entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP networks = should be forgotten. It's impossible to make it work. It is not impossible. It is impossible for the IETF. If you want to define a standard for 3GPP to do DHCP over a different = port, that sounds fine. But it's not an IETF thing=E2=80=94this is a = specifically 3GPP problem, and it doesn't make any sense to write an = IETF standard to work around it. Suppose we did so: what advice would = we give to implementors? --Apple-Mail=_BAA8F50C-2760-4A77-82CE-33221F7B0AB5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Nov 16, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote:
If so, this entire issue about making = DHCPv6 work on 3GPP networks should be forgotten.   It's = impossible to make it work.

It is = not impossible.   It is impossible for the IETF.

If you want to define a = standard for 3GPP to do DHCP over a different port, that sounds fine. =   But it's not an IETF thing=E2=80=94this is a specifically 3GPP = problem, and it doesn't make any sense to write an IETF standard to work = around it.   Suppose we did so: what advice would we give to = implementors?

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, dhcwg Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AdNc+j0Y/64lorm6QoWdIRZ/749NYQAQ1/GAAAFUfgAAAr3+gAAOYLwAAADMTIAAGDHRgAAAEGSAAAAyXoAAAI9ZgAAKcnaAAAK9ZgAAAbymAP//nLoJgACgfQCAAHy6gIAAfLSAgAARAQCAABMrgIAAAKQA//+eK/w= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:50:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted 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([2001:67c:370:128:fd29:fd77:ea08:a34e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 23sm370141iot.58.2017.11.16.01.42.08 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:42:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tomek Mrugalski To: dhcwg@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:42:05 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Looking for help with YANG drafts X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 09:42:13 -0000 Dear WG, Some time ago there was some level of interest in the WG regarding YANG models for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6. One of them (draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-yang-04) responsible for DHCPv6 is going to be presented later today, while the other (draft-liu-dhc-dhcp-yang-model-06, currently expired) is parked, waiting for its v6 counterpart to complete. The v6 draft has been revived after some period of inactivity. Chairs spoken with authors and we are in agreement that this work could benefit from a new co-author or even two. We will discuss this in detail later today, but please consider helping this work if you are experienced in YANG. If you aren't, this is nice opportunity to get new experience in area that seems to be booming throughout the IETF (117 drafts with yang in the name submitted last month). Please step forward during the meeting or get in touch with chairs and authors over e-mail. Thanks, Bernie & Tomek From nobody Thu Nov 16 02:08:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCE7126DFB for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:08:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NXK39hpSEpOJ for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCFF8126C2F for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 70BC760F76; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:08:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.42]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 50C0C180076; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:08:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c845:f762:8997:ec86%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:08:27 +0100 From: To: Alexandru Petrescu , Ted Lemon CC: dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AQHTXqV6/64lorm6QoWdIRZ/749NYaMWx92A Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 10:08:27 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <8d935331012947aa942e8dc2a48d889f@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 10:08:36 -0000 SGkgQWxleCwgDQoNCkkgZGlzYWdyZWUuDQoNClRoZSBwcm9ibGVtcyB5b3UgYXJlIGRlc2NyaWJp bmcgYXJlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIG9uZXMuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1l c3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogZGhjd2cgW21haWx0bzpkaGN3Zy1ib3VuY2Vz QGlldGYub3JnXSBEZSBsYSBwYXJ0IGRlIEFsZXhhbmRydQ0KPiBQZXRyZXNjdQ0KPiBFbnZvecOp wqA6IGpldWRpIDE2IG5vdmVtYnJlIDIwMTcgMDc6MzgNCj4gw4DCoDogVGVkIExlbW9uDQo+IENj wqA6IGRoY3dnOyBCZXJuaWUgVm9seiAodm9seikNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogUmU6IFtkaGN3Z10gREhD UHY2IGFuZCBJUHY2TkQNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gTGUgMTYvMTEvMjAxNyDDoCAwNjoyOSwgVGVk IExlbW9uIGEgw6ljcml0IDoNCj4gPiBJJ20gaGF2aW5nIHRyb3VibGUgZmlndXJpbmcgb3V0IGhv dyBjaGFuZ2luZyB0aGUgcG9ydCB3b3VsZCBoZWxwLg0KPiA+IFlvdSdkIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUgdG8g bWFrZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBtb2RpZmljYXRpb25zLiAgIFlvdSdkIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUNCj4gPiB0byBk ZWZpbmUgYSBidXNpbmVzcyBtb2RlbC4NCj4gDQo+IF9JZl8gdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBzdGFuZGFyZCB0 aGF0IHNheXMgcG9ydCBudW1iZXIgaXMgdmFyaWFibGUsIGFuZCBpZg0KPiBoYXJkd2FyZSBtYW51 ZmFjdHVyZXIgaW1wbGVtZW50cyBpdCwgdGhlbiBpdCB3aWxsIGhlbHAuDQo+IA0KPiBJZiBub3Qs IG5vdC4NCj4gDQo+IElmIHNvLCB0aGlzIGVudGlyZSBpc3N1ZSBhYm91dCBtYWtpbmcgREhDUHY2 IHdvcmsgb24gM0dQUCBuZXR3b3Jrcw0KPiBzaG91bGQgYmUgZm9yZ290dGVuLiAgIEl0J3MgaW1w b3NzaWJsZSB0byBtYWtlIGl0IHdvcmsuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGF0IHB1dHMgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24g b2YgREhDUHY2IGFuZCBJUHY2TkQgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgM0dQUCBjb250ZXh0DQo+IGFsdG9nZXRo ZXIuDQo+IA0KPiBGb3IgdGhlIGJ1c2luZXNzIG1vZGVsOiBJIGFtIG5vdCBhbiBlY29ub21pc3Qu DQo+IA0KPiBBbGV4DQo+IA0KPiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IGRoY3dnIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBkaGN3Z0Bp ZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RoY3dnDQo= From nobody Thu Nov 16 02:48:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679C5127337 for ; 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c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2709; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510829286; x=1512038886; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=V3UBb1299ImlP/wJJWRr2COvWN4jRCBEs+Pd56ZJ5y4=; b=GNYJcs2vJajBxAsX9XkmULRvQg2DA6GP/O5TYNKeGKk5Ynq8Z/G5nstQ dthW3bUdB5VFehYu7YZxTJozdvVHlzZgVjYsWNbzBtrCwUao6I2xRdKPF VrPM6O8O/VyKyN3TLSVf3wf1KU05DnAaJPnwj+XVg9RZ584sSEn7X0Y1n M=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DvAAChaw1a/5xdJa1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM2ZG4ng3+KH48ggVcmll8QggEHAxgLhRgChQc/GAEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAWsohR8BAQEDAQEhSxsLDgoqAgInMAYBDAYCAQGKIBCpbIInixMBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QIBAQEBAQEBAREKBYM0ggeDZwuCQTaEYA+DPoJjBYosh0eBE16OV4RJgiaOG4I?= =?us-ascii?q?VhgqDYodHljCBOR84gXQ0IQgdFUmCZIRsNDaLLQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,402,1505779200"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="321350007" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Nov 2017 10:48:05 +0000 Received: from [10.70.234.2] ([10.70.234.2]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAGAm3hi020531; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 10:48:04 GMT To: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org References: From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <0808b255-8b07-6aa7-8031-195a2c356e10@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 18:47:14 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Rknxc9Quk46FKeR8gsw1g5scuhnqGGd8K" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Looking for help with YANG drafts X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 10:48:08 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Rknxc9Quk46FKeR8gsw1g5scuhnqGGd8K Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IcBkNXP93x9JEMIdBMPJb7DhLkSwWWTmd"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Tomek Mrugalski , dhcwg@ietf.org Message-ID: <0808b255-8b07-6aa7-8031-195a2c356e10@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Looking for help with YANG drafts References: In-Reply-To: --IcBkNXP93x9JEMIdBMPJb7DhLkSwWWTmd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US I'm willing to help. Eliot On 11/16/17 5:42 PM, Tomek Mrugalski wrote: > Dear WG, > > Some time ago there was some level of interest in the WG regarding YANG= > models for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6. One of them > (draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-yang-04) responsible for DHCPv6 is going to be > presented later today, while the other > (draft-liu-dhc-dhcp-yang-model-06, currently expired) is parked, waitin= g > for its v6 counterpart to complete. > > The v6 draft has been revived after some period of inactivity. Chairs > spoken with authors and we are in agreement that this work could benefi= t > from a new co-author or even two. We will discuss this in detail later > today, but please consider helping this work if you are experienced in > YANG. If you aren't, this is nice opportunity to get new experience in > area that seems to be booming throughout the IETF (117 drafts with yang= > in the name submitted last month). > > Please step forward during the meeting or get in touch with chairs and > authors over e-mail. > > Thanks, > > Bernie & Tomek > > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > --IcBkNXP93x9JEMIdBMPJb7DhLkSwWWTmd-- --Rknxc9Quk46FKeR8gsw1g5scuhnqGGd8K Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJaDWyzAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozNOYH/31pHW+BOJSbt5B7ItAIP5p+ 836HL5VNM7+gqKe3AmnUJH+Gz9bjMwSRRsTllYR+7VyqINWKVEJRLvDDAW2fTrsl 56FNqbGc3odVc838eTnou/eVlyI5Iq16+up2usfTSucKwQ40lrf+fBT0ib1u6uyX 2wbxfZMGs0AdyzDqSRMgpjkxkKJ12yebQb/hd/afxszafd+RRh6ERlP1W3x5ZG+Q /0N79OtOOJim0lIEETWosCYRlbMlsJcqVOICIIsFPA18yNLmof+IA42XKBd0oH5x JtMK6R4jA4Zhm+JQN1gA7mRAD17RdjmjL4na8pc6TNANZcV1ySjKI8oLJlcEVik= =epYx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Rknxc9Quk46FKeR8gsw1g5scuhnqGGd8K-- From nobody Thu Nov 16 03:05:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFABB129436 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:05:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IwL7t5tYnLfZ for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9908E129408 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAGB5CYT036360; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:05:12 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3AF27207C0C; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:05:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2944B204631; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:05:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.88] ([132.166.84.88]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAGB59qn029489; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:05:10 +0100 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Alexandru Petrescu Message-ID: <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:05:08 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:05:25 -0000 Med, Which part do you disagree with in my text? I agree the problems are indeed implementation problems, but I need to understand which part do you disagree? Do you disagree when I say that the entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP should be forgotten? Or other part? Alex Le 16/11/2017 à 11:08, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : > Hi Alex, > > I disagree. > > The problems you are describing are implementation ones. > > Cheers, > Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Alexandru >> Petrescu >> Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre 2017 07:38 >> À : Ted Lemon >> Cc : dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) >> Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >> >> >> >> Le 16/11/2017 à 06:29, Ted Lemon a écrit : >>> I'm having trouble figuring out how changing the port would help. >>> You'd still have to make the same modifications. You'd still have >>> to define a business model. >> >> _If_ there is a standard that says port number is variable, and if >> hardware manufacturer implements it, then it will help. >> >> If not, not. >> >> If so, this entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP networks >> should be forgotten. It's impossible to make it work. >> >> That puts the discussion of DHCPv6 and IPv6ND outside the 3GPP context >> altogether. >> >> For the business model: I am not an economist. >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dhcwg mailing list >> dhcwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Thu Nov 16 03:25:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1EB128B88 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:25:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ORCrWCzXkbtg for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF109129447 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 3FD9C402FF; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:25:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.41]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2090E1C006F; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:25:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM31.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::2cc9:4bac:7b7d:229d%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:25:53 +0100 From: To: Alexandru Petrescu CC: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AQHTXsrKDhJlYh9cXUm8u4vbXET25aMW2PDg Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:25:52 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B952@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <54D1B686-A5FA-42A0-8A57-067562313488@fugue.com> <38ef2544-df5c-4677-ffaa-7b084eb300fa@gmail.com> <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:25:57 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4gDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tTWVz c2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBBbGV4YW5kcnUgUGV0cmVzY3UgW21haWx0bzph bGV4YW5kcnUucGV0cmVzY3VAZ21haWwuY29tXQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IGpldWRpIDE2IG5vdmVt YnJlIDIwMTcgMTI6MDUNCj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgSU1UL09MTg0KPiBDY8Kg OiBUZWQgTGVtb247IGRoY3dnOyBCZXJuaWUgVm9seiAodm9seikNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogUmU6IFtk aGN3Z10gREhDUHY2IGFuZCBJUHY2TkQNCj4gDQo+IE1lZCwNCj4gV2hpY2ggcGFydCBkbyB5b3Ug ZGlzYWdyZWUgd2l0aCBpbiBteSB0ZXh0Pw0KPiANCj4gSSBhZ3JlZSB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbXMgYXJl IGluZGVlZCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBwcm9ibGVtcywNCg0KW01lZF0gQ29vbC4gDQoNCiBidXQg SSBuZWVkIHRvDQo+IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgd2hpY2ggcGFydCBkbyB5b3UgZGlzYWdyZWU/DQo+IA0K DQpbTWVkXSBJIGRpc2FncmVlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHNwZWMgbmVlZHMgdG8gc2F5IHRoYXQgdGhlIHBv cnQgbnVtYmVyIGlzIHZhcmlhYmxlLiBUaGlzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBsZWZ0IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudGVy cywgaWYgbmVlZGUuIEJUVywgY29uZmlndXJpbmcgYSBkaXN0aW5jdCBwb3J0IG51bWJlciB3aWxs IHJlcXVpcmUgdGhhdCB0aGUgY2xpZW50IGlzIGFibGUgdG8gbGVhcm4gdGhhdCBhbHRlcm5hdGUg cG9ydC4gVGhpcyB3aWxsIGxlYWQgdG8gbW9yZSBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5IHByb2JsZW1zIHRo YW4gaXQgc29sdmVzLiANCg0KPiBEbyB5b3UgZGlzYWdyZWUgd2hlbiBJIHNheSB0aGF0IHRoZSBl bnRpcmUgaXNzdWUgYWJvdXQgbWFraW5nIERIQ1B2Ng0KPiB3b3JrIG9uIDNHUFAgc2hvdWxkIGJl IGZvcmdvdHRlbj8NCg0KW01lZF0gUHJlZml4IGRlbGVnYXRpb24gY2FuIHdvcmsgZWFzaWx5IGlu IGNlbGx1bGFyIG5ldHdvcmtzIGlmIGFsbCBpbnZvbHZlZCBwYXJ0aWVzL2ltcGxlbWVudGVycyBh cmUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGN1cnJlbnQgc3BlY3MuIFRoYXQgaXM6IA0KLSBUaGUgY2xpZW50IHVzZXMg dGhlIGRlZmluZWQgbXVsdGljYXN0IGFkZHJlc3MgKyBzZXJ2aWNlIHBvcnQgd2hlbiBpc3N1aW5n IGl0cyBzb2xpY2l0IG1lc3NhZ2VzICsgc3VwcGx5IHByZWZpeF9leGNsdWRlLiANCi0gVGhlIHNl cnZlciBsaXN0ZW5zIG9uIHRoZSBzZXJ2aWNlIHBvcnQgKyBkb2VzIG5vdCBtYWtlIGFueSBhc3N1 bXB0aW9uIGFib3V0IHRoZSBzb3VyY2UgSVAgYWRkcmVzcyArIHRyZWF0IERVSURzIGFzIG9wYXF1 ZSB2YWx1ZXMgdGhhdCBhcmUgb25seSB1c2VkIHRvIGNvbXBhcmUgZXF1YWxpdHkuIA0KDQpJJ20g YXdhcmUgdGhhdCBzb21lIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGFyZSAiYmxvY2tlZCIgYnkgc29tZSBzaGlwc2V0IHZl bmRvcnMsIGJ1dCBhZ2FpbiB0aGlzIGlzIGFuIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIGlzc3VlLiANCiAgDQpJ IGRvIGFncmVlIHdpdGggeW91IGl0IGlzIGZydXN0cmF0aW5nLiANCg0KICBPciBvdGhlciBwYXJ0 Pw0KPiANCj4gQWxleA0KPiANCj4gTGUgMTYvMTEvMjAxNyDDoCAxMTowOCwgbW9oYW1lZC5ib3Vj YWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbSBhIMOpY3JpdMKgOg0KPiA+IEhpIEFsZXgsDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBJIGRp c2FncmVlLg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gVGhlIHByb2JsZW1zIHlvdSBhcmUgZGVzY3JpYmluZyBhcmUgaW1w bGVtZW50YXRpb24gb25lcy4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IENoZWVycywNCj4gPiBNZWQNCj4gPg0KPiA+PiAt LS0tLU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gPj4gRGXCoDogZGhjd2cgW21haWx0bzpkaGN3 Zy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBEZSBsYSBwYXJ0IGRlIEFsZXhhbmRydQ0KPiA+PiBQZXRyZXNj dQ0KPiA+PiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IGpldWRpIDE2IG5vdmVtYnJlIDIwMTcgMDc6MzgNCj4gPj4gw4DC oDogVGVkIExlbW9uDQo+ID4+IENjwqA6IGRoY3dnOyBCZXJuaWUgVm9seiAodm9seikNCj4gPj4g T2JqZXTCoDogUmU6IFtkaGN3Z10gREhDUHY2IGFuZCBJUHY2TkQNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4N Cj4gPj4gTGUgMTYvMTEvMjAxNyDDoCAwNjoyOSwgVGVkIExlbW9uIGEgw6ljcml0IDoNCj4gPj4+ IEknbSBoYXZpbmcgdHJvdWJsZSBmaWd1cmluZyBvdXQgaG93IGNoYW5naW5nIHRoZSBwb3J0IHdv dWxkIGhlbHAuDQo+ID4+PiBZb3UnZCBzdGlsbCBoYXZlIHRvIG1ha2UgdGhlIHNhbWUgbW9kaWZp Y2F0aW9ucy4gICBZb3UnZCBzdGlsbCBoYXZlDQo+ID4+PiB0byBkZWZpbmUgYSBidXNpbmVzcyBt b2RlbC4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gX0lmXyB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHN0YW5kYXJkIHRoYXQgc2F5cyBwb3J0 IG51bWJlciBpcyB2YXJpYWJsZSwgYW5kIGlmDQo+ID4+IGhhcmR3YXJlIG1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciBp bXBsZW1lbnRzIGl0LCB0aGVuIGl0IHdpbGwgaGVscC4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gSWYgbm90LCBub3Qu DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IElmIHNvLCB0aGlzIGVudGlyZSBpc3N1ZSBhYm91dCBtYWtpbmcgREhDUHY2 IHdvcmsgb24gM0dQUCBuZXR3b3Jrcw0KPiA+PiBzaG91bGQgYmUgZm9yZ290dGVuLiAgIEl0J3Mg aW1wb3NzaWJsZSB0byBtYWtlIGl0IHdvcmsuDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IFRoYXQgcHV0cyB0aGUgZGlz Y3Vzc2lvbiBvZiBESENQdjYgYW5kIElQdjZORCBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSAzR1BQIGNvbnRleHQNCj4g Pj4gYWx0b2dldGhlci4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gRm9yIHRoZSBidXNpbmVzcyBtb2RlbDogSSBhbSBu b3QgYW4gZWNvbm9taXN0Lg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBBbGV4DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4NCj4g Pj4NCj4gPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N Cj4gPj4gZGhjd2cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4+IGRoY3dnQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4+IGh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGhjd2cNCg== From nobody Thu Nov 16 03:50:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD77712947A for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:50:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JvgqxnBl8dQv for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C61EC12946E for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:50:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAGBnv7D017501; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:49:57 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 7173D207C75; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:49:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEE9201402; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:49:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.88] ([132.166.84.88]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAGBnqB5027517; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:49:56 +0100 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B952@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Alexandru Petrescu Message-ID: <53ce58b6-beb6-cab0-d76b-2562d9feb2e1@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:49:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B952@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:50:05 -0000 Med, Thank you for the reply. I agree with some parts, but not with others. Le 16/11/2017 à 12:25, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : > Re-, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Alexandru Petrescu [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] >> Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre 2017 12:05 >> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN >> Cc : Ted Lemon; dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) >> Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >> >> Med, >> Which part do you disagree with in my text? >> >> I agree the problems are indeed implementation problems, > > [Med] Cool. > > but I need to >> understand which part do you disagree? >> > > [Med] I disagree that the spec needs to say that the port number is variable. This should be left to implementers, if neede. BTW, configuring a distinct port number will require that the client is able to learn that alternate port. This will lead to more interoperability problems than it solves. > >> Do you disagree when I say that the entire issue about making DHCPv6 >> work on 3GPP should be forgotten? > > [Med] Prefix delegation can work easily in cellular networks if all involved parties/implementers are following current specs. That is: > - The client uses the defined multicast address + service port when issuing its solicit messages + supply prefix_exclude. > - The server listens on the service port + does not make any assumption about the source IP address + treat DUIDs as opaque values that are only used to compare equality. I think after all this time we can safely say that the specification written above has never been experimented successfully. YEs, my ARM runs DHCPv6-PD with all the options that you required. Yes, the operator DHCPv6 Server is running and configured to do PD a /56. But no, the two have never performed a successful exchange. The problem is in the middle - the modem. It's not only me who says this. Lorenzo complained about modems and DHCPv6 several years ago. Others on the v6ops WG agreed with him. Yes, they made a wrong assertion saying the operator does not support DHCPv6: the operator _can_ do DHCPv6, and the assertion was wrong. > I'm aware that some messages are "blocked" by some chipset vendors, but again this is an implementation issue. I checked Qualcomm and Balong modems. That represents quite a lot of the installed base. I will be happy to check others like Intel modems, but I dont know how. There is also a possibility that the specification that you write above, and where you refer to involved parties: maybe it's a matter between operator, implementers at router manufacturer and implementers at modem manufacturer. I do not represent any: just implementer of open source. A modem implementer has access to source code of the modem. A router manufacturer implementer has access to source code of router. Alex > I do agree with you it is frustrating. Yes. Alex > > Or other part? >> >> Alex >> >> Le 16/11/2017 à 11:08, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> I disagree. >>> >>> The problems you are describing are implementation ones. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Alexandru >>>> Petrescu >>>> Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre 2017 07:38 >>>> À : Ted Lemon >>>> Cc : dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) >>>> Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 06:29, Ted Lemon a écrit : >>>>> I'm having trouble figuring out how changing the port would help. >>>>> You'd still have to make the same modifications. You'd still have >>>>> to define a business model. >>>> >>>> _If_ there is a standard that says port number is variable, and if >>>> hardware manufacturer implements it, then it will help. >>>> >>>> If not, not. >>>> >>>> If so, this entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP networks >>>> should be forgotten. It's impossible to make it work. >>>> >>>> That puts the discussion of DHCPv6 and IPv6ND outside the 3GPP context >>>> altogether. >>>> >>>> For the business model: I am not an economist. >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dhcwg mailing list >>>> dhcwg@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Thu Nov 16 03:58:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3546129471 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 03:58:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no 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14.03.0361.001; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:57:46 +0100 From: To: Alexandru Petrescu CC: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND Thread-Index: AQHTXsrKDhJlYh9cXUm8u4vbXET25aMW2PDg///6vQCAABGj8A== Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 11:57:46 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B9D1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <8E4C374A-DA6D-4FAB-AAEA-7EB4A2A655D8@fugue.com> <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B952@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 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X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:07:18 -0000 --001a11424908221e7c055e185d94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear WG, My name is Zihao He, a new student from Mr. Cui's laboratory. I am willing to contribute to this v6 draft. Though I am not experienced in YANG, I have been learning and catching up. Best regards Zihao ------------------ Original ------------------ *From: * "Tomek Mrugalski";; *Date: * Thu, Nov 16, 2017 05:42 PM *To: * "dhcwg"; *Subject: * [dhcwg] Looking for help with YANG drafts Dear WG, Some time ago there was some level of interest in the WG regarding YANG models for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6. One of them (draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-yang-04) responsible for DHCPv6 is going to be presented later today, while the other (draft-liu-dhc-dhcp-yang-model-06, currently expired) is parked, waiting for its v6 counterpart to complete. The v6 draft has been revived after some period of inactivity. Chairs spoken with authors and we are in agreement that this work could benefit from a new co-author or even two. We will discuss this in detail later today, but please consider helping this work if you are experienced in YANG. If you aren't, this is nice opportunity to get new experience in area that seems to be booming throughout the IETF (117 drafts with yang in the name submitted last month). Please step forward during the meeting or get in touch with chairs and authors over e-mail. Thanks, Bernie & Tomek _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg --001a11424908221e7c055e185d94 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear WG,

My= name is Zihao He, a new student from Mr. Cui's laboratory. I am willin= g to contribute to this v6 draft. Though I am not experienced in YANG, I ha= ve been learning and catching up.

Best regards
Zihao
------------------ Original ----= --------------
From:=C2=A0=C2=A0"Tomek Mrugalski&= quot;;<tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>;
Date:=C2=A0=C2=A0Thu, Nov 16, 2017 05:42 PM
To:=C2=A0=C2=A0"dhcwg"<dhc= wg@ietf.org>;
Subject:=C2=A0= =C2=A0[dhcwg] Looking for help with YANG drafts

D= ear WG,

Some time ago there was some level of interest in the WG reg= arding YANG
models for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6. One of them
(draft-ietf-dhc= -dhcpv6-yang-04) responsible for DHCPv6 is going to be
presented later t= oday, while the other
(draft-liu-dhc-dhcp-yang-model-06, currently expir= ed) is parked, waiting
for its v6 counterpart to complete.

The v6= draft has been revived after some period of inactivity. Chairs
spoken w= ith authors and we are in agreement that this work could benefit
from a = new co-author or even two. We will discuss this in detail later
today, b= ut please consider helping this work if you are experienced in
YANG. If = you aren't, this is nice opportunity to get new experience in
area t= hat seems to be booming throughout the IETF (117 drafts with yang
in the= name submitted last month).

Please step forward during the meeting = or get in touch with chairs and
authors over e-mail.

Thanks,
<= br>Bernie & Tomek

______________________________________________= _
dhcwg mailing list
dhcwg@ietf.org
<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg" target=3D"_blank" st= yle=3D"outline:none;color:rgb(15,43,47)">https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/dhcwg
--001a11424908221e7c055e185d94-- From nobody Thu Nov 16 04:15:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6FB129482 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:15:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rs3kfRqPnu2V for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9510D12947A for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 04:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vAGCFe5C079737; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:40 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3072D200CCD; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E33E207CA9; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.247] ([132.166.84.247]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vAGCFbQE028056; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:38 +0100 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: Ted Lemon , dhcwg , "Bernie Volz (volz)" References: <68a1f0db-58d3-fe0e-8169-127c0b629df1@gmail.com> <89CE6E3F-7501-4A8D-9A1B-5638A8845E7D@fugue.com> <7ef058e6-0360-f86c-b7d8-8eaf129a7f95@gmail.com> <2907A64D-BB00-4922-BA6F-AA596AC878AB@fugue.com> <0b88f8af-2cbd-e6b2-ff22-50d682a66e8f@gmail.com> <953BFAD3-BAD7-4A1D-A102-2A6C7873052C@fugue.com> <3f898368-6222-d87c-7baa-38dea51a6980@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B80E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8fc9efa9-764c-caf7-06e8-5eb7052dcda6@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B952@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <53ce58b6-beb6-cab0-d76b-2562d9feb2e1@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B9D1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Alexandru Petrescu Message-ID: <994e25d4-5033-8b7e-a032-198ab975d29f@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:36 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A07B9D1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:15:48 -0000 Le 16/11/2017 à 12:57, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : > Alex, > > Actually, it seems that we are in agreement in almost all points :) > > The question is how this group can help fixing the modem issue (or > any other blocking filters that may be in-between clients and > servers). Maybe they can not. But until that is fixed we can not talk about DHCPv6-and-IPv6ND on cellular networks. And I dont see that fixing happening. Alex > > Cheers, Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- De : Alexandru Petrescu >> [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre >> 2017 12:50 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : Ted Lemon; dhcwg; >> Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >> >> Med, >> >> Thank you for the reply. I agree with some parts, but not with >> others. >> >> Le 16/11/2017 à 12:25, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : >>> Re-, >>> >>> Please see inline. >>> >>> Cheers, Med >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- De : Alexandru Petrescu >>>> [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] Envoyé : jeudi 16 >>>> novembre 2017 12:05 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : Ted >>>> Lemon; dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] DHCPv6 and >>>> IPv6ND >>>> >>>> Med, Which part do you disagree with in my text? >>>> >>>> I agree the problems are indeed implementation problems, >>> >>> [Med] Cool. >>> >>> but I need to >>>> understand which part do you disagree? >>>> >>> >>> [Med] I disagree that the spec needs to say that the port number >>> is >> variable. This should be left to implementers, if neede. BTW, >> configuring a distinct port number will require that the client is >> able to learn that alternate port. This will lead to more >> interoperability problems than it solves. >>> >>>> Do you disagree when I say that the entire issue about making >>>> DHCPv6 work on 3GPP should be forgotten? >>> >>> [Med] Prefix delegation can work easily in cellular networks if >>> all >> involved parties/implementers are following current specs. That >> is: >>> - The client uses the defined multicast address + service port >>> when >> issuing its solicit messages + supply prefix_exclude. >>> - The server listens on the service port + does not make any >>> assumption >> about the source IP address + treat DUIDs as opaque values that are >> only used to compare equality. >> >> I think after all this time we can safely say that the >> specification written above has never been experimented >> successfully. >> >> YEs, my ARM runs DHCPv6-PD with all the options that you required. >> Yes, the operator DHCPv6 Server is running and configured to do PD >> a /56. But no, the two have never performed a successful exchange. >> >> The problem is in the middle - the modem. >> >> It's not only me who says this. Lorenzo complained about modems >> and DHCPv6 several years ago. Others on the v6ops WG agreed with >> him. >> >> Yes, they made a wrong assertion saying the operator does not >> support DHCPv6: the operator _can_ do DHCPv6, and the assertion was >> wrong. >> >>> I'm aware that some messages are "blocked" by some chipset >>> vendors, but >> again this is an implementation issue. >> >> I checked Qualcomm and Balong modems. That represents quite a lot >> of the installed base. >> >> I will be happy to check others like Intel modems, but I dont know >> how. >> >> There is also a possibility that the specification that you write >> above, and where you refer to involved parties: maybe it's a matter >> between operator, implementers at router manufacturer and >> implementers at modem manufacturer. I do not represent any: just >> implementer of open source. >> >> A modem implementer has access to source code of the modem. >> >> A router manufacturer implementer has access to source code of >> router. >> >> Alex >> >>> I do agree with you it is frustrating. >> >> Yes. >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Or other part? >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 11:08, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I disagree. >>>>> >>>>> The problems you are describing are implementation ones. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, Med >>>>> >>>>>> -----Message d'origine----- De : dhcwg >>>>>> [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Alexandru >>>>>> Petrescu Envoyé : jeudi 16 novembre 2017 07:38 À : Ted >>>>>> Lemon Cc : dhcwg; Bernie Volz (volz) Objet : Re: [dhcwg] >>>>>> DHCPv6 and IPv6ND >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 06:29, Ted Lemon a écrit : >>>>>>> I'm having trouble figuring out how changing the port >>>>>>> would help. You'd still have to make the same >>>>>>> modifications. You'd still have to define a business >>>>>>> model. >>>>>> >>>>>> _If_ there is a standard that says port number is variable, >>>>>> and if hardware manufacturer implements it, then it will >>>>>> help. >>>>>> >>>>>> If not, not. >>>>>> >>>>>> If so, this entire issue about making DHCPv6 work on 3GPP >>>>>> networks should be forgotten. It's impossible to make it >>>>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> That puts the discussion of DHCPv6 and IPv6ND outside the >>>>>> 3GPP >> context >>>>>> altogether. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the business model: I am not an economist. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ dhcwg >>>>>> mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Mon Nov 20 13:41:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24BAC12960D; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:41:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oiqyzTfcSRQt; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C777128CD5; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vAKLevsF015464; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:40:57 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.220]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAKLesjW015085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:40:54 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdc::8988:efdc) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:40:53 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:40:53 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57Ng== Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:40:53 +0000 Message-ID: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:41:01 -0000 Hello, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 have traditionally been thought of as independent functi= ons, with the requirement that the IPv6 ND RS/RA exchange has to happen first so= that the node can examine the M/O bits to determine whether it can use DHCPv6. A= s nearly as I can tell, this two round-trip process (IPv6 RS/RA followed by D= HCPv6 Solicit/Reply) is the only argument conceivable against DHCPv6 from a funct= ional standpoint. The two round-trip process can add significant delay and waste bandwidth es= pecially on low-end data links like many aviation wireless links. It can also impart= unnecessary messaging overhead on more robust links during periods of congestion. This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 where the two functions work together as if they were one. This is accommodated b= y a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option". By worki= ng together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nodes wi= th all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed address/pre= fix delegations in a single round trip message exchange. I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really d= on't like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't like the way the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an onerou= s stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to consider what a replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. Comments? Fred -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of inte= rnet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:21 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. Title : The DHCPv6 Option for IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Author : Fred L. Templin Filename : draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2017-11-20 Abstract: IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (IPv6ND) specifies a control message set for nodes to discover neighbors, routers, prefixes and other services on the link. It also supports a manner of StateLess Address AutoConfiguration (SLAAC). The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6) specifies a service for the stateful delegation of addresses and prefixes. Currently, at least two round-trip message exchanges are necessary in order to perform the IPv6ND router discovery and DHCPv6 address/ prefix delegation functions. This document presents a protocol for combining these two round trips into a single round trip by joining the two services into a single unified service. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Mon Nov 20 14:17:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23E212EAA8; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:17:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ht2wn5Jv2Rkj; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:17:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CAC012704A; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:17:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5567; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1511216263; x=1512425863; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=o7Gbr6O1d1hKAY5ie5y8CcLvt35i+SMSHGSvCtnlry8=; b=XdHC2EN2qjTMSlblS07XBLHcIjvX18NhEL9otCzQoKRBJ0Oafdbkf/PP yM/xmvbOoBo8G2Iztdqa4fBt+QrlYZUbpDSExXEvS5eUd1/QgyTNiizw4 C4cwMsQ/rU64nhK7VTFrj1Q0Lc82ampNEIbFG9QVca0Wr/dLh7JAlVJUN E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DpAAATUxNa/5FdJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYMOLmZuJweOF48ogX2WYoIRChgNhRYChH0/GAEBAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohR4BAQEBAwEBODQLDAQCAQgRBAEBHwkHJwsUCQgBAQQOBQgBihwQqmmKdgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAR2DNIIHhmmDJIIphUYFijyYAgKHcINqiSeCH2K?= =?us-ascii?q?BGoQQiyqHPoU0dYgeAhEZAYE5AR85gXR6FR8qgmQJglAfgWd3AYo9gRQBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,430,1505779200"; d="scan'208";a="33593890" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Nov 2017 22:17:42 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (xch-aln-001.cisco.com [173.36.7.11]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAKMHgHN012026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:17:42 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:17:41 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 16:17:41 -0600 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Templin, Fred L" CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgABURPw Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:17:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.198] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:17:46 -0000 Fred: I'm not so sure that this idea is really needed. You can always start both = RS and DHCPv6 at the same time if you always know you want to use DHCPv6? In section 2, aren't you missing some "pad" octets to "make" the DHCPv6 mes= sage (really the IPv6 ND DHCPv6 option) a multiple of 8 octets long (as the= "Length" field in the ND header is a multiple of 8). A better design, beca= use there are no DHCPv6 "pad" options, might be: A) The pad bytes are after the IPv6 ND Length field (your reserved) and dep= end on the padding needed - these would be 0 octets before the msg-type to = make the length work out (so the IPv6 ND DHCPv6 option ends at an 8 octet b= oundary). When extracting the DHCPv6 message, any first octets that are 0 v= alues would be skipped to find the start of the msg-type (since the DHCPv6 = msg-type cannot be 0). B) Use the 2 reserved octets to specify the real length of the DHCPv6 messa= ge. Any octets beyond these are ignored. Alternatively, you could use 1 oct= et to indicate the number of pad octets (and leave the other octet as reser= ved). And, of course the maximum sized DHCPv6 message you can send is 8 * 256 - 4= =3D 2,044 octets. Also, for the "DHCPv6 Solicit" message, I think you want to say "DHCPv6 Sol= icit w/Rapid Commit"? (You mention Rapid Commit only in the Introduction.) - Bernie -----Original Message----- From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 4:41 PM To: 6man@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org Subject: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified functi= on Hello, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 have traditionally been thought of as independent functi= ons, with the requirement that the IPv6 ND RS/RA exchange has to happen fir= st so that the node can examine the M/O bits to determine whether it can us= e DHCPv6. As nearly as I can tell, this two round-trip process (IPv6 RS/RA = followed by DHCPv6 Solicit/Reply) is the only argument conceivable against DHCPv6 from a funct= ional standpoint. The two round-trip process can add significant delay and waste bandwidth es= pecially on low-end data links like many aviation wireless links. It can al= so impart unnecessary messaging overhead on more robust links during period= s of congestion. This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 where = the two functions work together as if they were one. This is accommodated b= y a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option". By wor= king together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nod= es with all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed add= ress/prefix delegations in a single round trip message exchange. I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really d= on't like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't like th= e way the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an = onerous stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to conside= r what a replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replace= ment would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. Comments? Fred -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of inte= rnet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:21 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. Title : The DHCPv6 Option for IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Author : Fred L. Templin Filename : draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2017-11-20 Abstract: IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (IPv6ND) specifies a control message set for nodes to discover neighbors, routers, prefixes and other services on the link. It also supports a manner of StateLess Address AutoConfiguration (SLAAC). The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol for IPv6 (DHCPv6) specifies a service for the stateful delegation of addresses and prefixes. Currently, at least two round-trip message exchanges are necessary in order to perform the IPv6ND router discovery and DHCPv6 address/ prefix delegation functions. This document presents a protocol for combining these two round trips into a single round trip by joining the two services into a single unified service. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ie= tf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops From nobody Mon Nov 20 14:38:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1797312EAE4; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:38:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rweG1KR2P0F2; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD2711241FC; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vAKMci2k039193; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:38:44 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.172]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAKMcfnc039180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:38:41 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efac::8988:efac) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:38:40 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:38:40 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgABURPwAAD8gZA= Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:38:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:38:48 -0000 Hi Bernie, > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:18 PM > To: Templin, Fred L > Cc: 6man@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function >=20 > Fred: >=20 > I'm not so sure that this idea is really needed. You can always start bot= h RS and DHCPv6 at the same time if you always know you want > to use DHCPv6? I only want a (single request, single reply) message exchange; I don't want= to have to start multiple exchanges even if in parallel. I am worried about links t= hat have bandwidth well south of 1Mbps - some as low as 32Kbps.=20 > In section 2, aren't you missing some "pad" octets to "make" the DHCPv6 m= essage (really the IPv6 ND DHCPv6 option) a multiple of 8 > octets long (as the "Length" field in the ND header is a multiple of 8). = A better design, because there are no DHCPv6 "pad" options, > might be: >=20 > A) The pad bytes are after the IPv6 ND Length field (your reserved) and d= epend on the padding needed - these would be 0 octets > before the msg-type to make the length work out (so the IPv6 ND DHCPv6 op= tion ends at an 8 octet boundary). When extracting the > DHCPv6 message, any first octets that are 0 values would be skipped to fi= nd the start of the msg-type (since the DHCPv6 msg-type > cannot be 0). Yes, that works. We could also steal three bits from the "Reserved" field t= o encode a "pad length" value. The value would tell how many trailing zero octets are = present. > B) Use the 2 reserved octets to specify the real length of the DHCPv6 mes= sage. Any octets beyond these are ignored. Alternatively, > you could use 1 octet to indicate the number of pad octets (and leave the= other octet as reserved). Right, I like using three bits from the Reserved field to encode the number= of pad octets. Good catch. > And, of course the maximum sized DHCPv6 message you can send is 8 * 256 -= 4 =3D 2,044 octets. Yes, that should be enough but should be noted. Thanks. > Also, for the "DHCPv6 Solicit" message, I think you want to say "DHCPv6 S= olicit w/Rapid Commit"? (You mention Rapid Commit only in > the Introduction.) Yes. Rapid Commit is assumed everywhere but should be explicitly stated. Thanks - Fred =20 > - Bernie >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 4:41 PM > To: 6man@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > Subject: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified func= tion >=20 > Hello, >=20 > IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 have traditionally been thought of as independent func= tions, with the requirement that the IPv6 ND RS/RA > exchange has to happen first so that the node can examine the M/O bits to= determine whether it can use DHCPv6. As nearly as I can > tell, this two round-trip process (IPv6 RS/RA followed by DHCPv6 > Solicit/Reply) is the only argument conceivable against DHCPv6 from a fun= ctional standpoint. >=20 > The two round-trip process can add significant delay and waste bandwidth = especially on low-end data links like many aviation wireless > links. It can also impart unnecessary messaging overhead on more robust l= inks during periods of congestion. >=20 > This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 wher= e the two functions work together as if they were one. > This is accommodated by a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the= "DHCPv6 option". By working together as one function, > IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nodes with all link-specific aut= oconfiguration information and any managed address/prefix > delegations in a single round trip message exchange. >=20 > I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really= don't like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you > don't like the way the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. M= aybe it has an onerous stigma of being stateful. But, then I > would also ask you to consider what a replacement would look like. Becaus= e, I think any suitable replacement would have to > essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. >=20 > Comments? >=20 > Fred >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of in= ternet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:21 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. >=20 >=20 > Title : The DHCPv6 Option for IPv6 Neighbor Discovery > Author : Fred L. Templin > Filename : draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2017-11-20 >=20 > Abstract: > IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (IPv6ND) specifies a control message set for > nodes to discover neighbors, routers, prefixes and other services on > the link. It also supports a manner of StateLess Address > AutoConfiguration (SLAAC). The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol > for IPv6 (DHCPv6) specifies a service for the stateful delegation of > addresses and prefixes. >=20 > Currently, at least two round-trip message exchanges are necessary in > order to perform the IPv6ND router discovery and DHCPv6 address/ > prefix delegation functions. This document presents a protocol for > combining these two round trips into a single round trip by joining > the two services into a single unified service. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.= ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops From nobody Mon Nov 20 15:34:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2BE12E041; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:34:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=steffann.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXNwzk01sj94; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sintact.nl (mail.sintact.nl [83.247.10.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8936D120713; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 15:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8154A; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 00:34:39 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=steffann.nl; h= x-mailer:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:date :date:in-reply-to:from:from:subject:subject:mime-version :content-type:content-type:received:received; s=mail; t= 1511220875; bh=qONPhq/mE69X79DllZWFFCdG/SkTHeT9OQQorW5IbCc=; b=X fF8shk0Q6RimVA7bd7lDHVUGKYa/Y/Om+fhv8SP3kbt+xJM4sBlFL2vMYshbPEMt AeqsFPoDE7hOevG6oZHAJTfAX+l7DI2GKgY7AEYYcvLbEcH+uDTWPk08Udmkq1sc 3Qjx4NXr9zxTByzg34C4Bt46UVkUoEjwjHcr2TZXP4= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.sintact.nl Received: from mail.sintact.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.sintact.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DlhoRH3SETBw; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 00:34:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:a213:a301:1000:f870:7e30:2e3a:e0db] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:a213:a301:1000:f870:7e30:2e3a:e0db]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.sintact.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5337C49; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 00:34:34 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett From: Sander Steffann In-Reply-To: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 00:34:32 +0100 Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7F30D7F6-7859-4D2B-B550-8C8CB944FF9F@steffann.nl> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> To: "Templin, Fred L" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 23:34:45 -0000 Hi, > This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 = where > the two functions work together as if they were one. This is = accommodated by > a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option". By = working > together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting = nodes with > all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed = address/prefix > delegations in a single round trip message exchange. Interesting way of doing this. I have thought about combining ND and = DHCPv6 before, but more as a different distribution mechanism: ND for = pushing options to all clients on the network, and DHCPv6 for clients = requesting specific options for themselves. Just to make it possible to = use both mechanisms for all options (MAP/DSLite/etc options in RA would = be nice). What you are doing is another way of looking at it. If I understand = correctly you're basically keeping the full functionality of DHCPv6 but = using RS/RA as a transport instead of UDP. I wonder what the speed = benefit of that would be in practice. Also compared to "impatient" = systems that send out DHCPv6 a request before even receiving an RA. > I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you = really don't > like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't like = the way > the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an = onerous > stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to consider = what a > replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement > would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. In my opinion DHCPv6 is fine. I implemented a server and it is a *lot* = cleaner to implement than DHCPv4. Just plain UDP on link-local and = multicast sockets :) Especially the stateless version is very easy to = implement. It's not the ultimate configuration protocol, and for certain = things distributing information via RA is a much better fit to the way = the network is run. But DHCPv6 has its place and its role, and in = certain environments (DHCPv6-PD in ISP networks, DHCPv6 in enterprise = etc) it does what the network and system operators need. The main problem with DHCPv6 as an operator has been dealing with DUIDs = when the link-layer address in the DUID is based on a different = interface than the interface sending the DHCPv6 request. Mostly because = the requesting interface's MAC address has always been used with DHCPv4 = and is often printed on the outside of the device. But these days LDRA = and DHCPv6 relays can tell the DHCPv6 server what the MAC address of the = requesting interface was, and we can use that to identify the client (in = addition to its DUID). With vendors starting to implement this relay = option this is mostly a solved problem now. Another thing that makes me a bit sad is the lack of DHCPv6 reconfigure = support. That could be used to take away some of the complaints against = DHCPv6 (and any client-initiated configuration protocol) that there is = no way for the network to inform the client of changes. I see no need to replace it with something else that would indeed need = to duplicate its functionality. Cheers, Sander From nobody Mon Nov 20 21:31:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A62A129C3F; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:31:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ThJjxw4ksmqm; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua0-x22a.google.com (mail-ua0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E451126DC2; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id l25so7459696uag.8; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:30:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=55iotgwYDEun5pcC4ZmLAWzIXw4JoluxR5LzvmbP8XM=; b=FFxN0ItcHD3iX+zN9q3a0V3oGE8wWflUub1yy0AJuRQIZo7pbs36fNNzpyt38xB5EV mDcxyDOCPSZxiqhj29PEy5UaYalzlbOPcqE8ybGZ2TvMf29EcMxrSzAZWWhMQekR6jSR ERDL7Fm7PyAvHs7Hj74QHH5tZsiSarx4tLgDCQTfGDQsVJNVqL7wii08DFKn3uD1us08 atCz07Q6eS4nxKYcSz9s44kxiPS+J2qnqWmUlC8y8p/ip6J+m7gQ2asEESQqMkNgAFUp WFO9RZjVEI0iTSFpAsQW/UsySRyUXsOpTSrZAwEnIJV0/QZHR336MprYTKq8m6Ys2+5b +rFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=55iotgwYDEun5pcC4ZmLAWzIXw4JoluxR5LzvmbP8XM=; b=O85fEVh4k+upb3kvKEqlrmaLYt2g1iysA1GKyzXoAWxLlWN2ueJe1iXNGk9Lig5vFn +pqbCt0RMuut9zGIsPtMRL+tCVuUp61dH++P8hgQdAI1dso/rFAQevsB/7l/aQM8QtQm vyFXWYFc2bkQJl7ETuSQ24u4vNxvcGYruyW/ORx2jtAeYvlqU73s0Xzmr75ehqUt7irq tkWOYrELgXQ0SyjqKo7Q5NgvtQGn0tL5as4HEHL/hx3IFPHfsWQ7Vl+vRDKRvN6NSwik uKXPiVSB3GFijRNzkeE9EV/wgW4DqfIrYT3G7Y5bOiecYZx2j1dOPBFLdhFYXrnQZPS6 13ug== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7ZNgKtgRGu+fsYm2+t5ZX/5FaXZj4G6POldmL4HExx8wcBsV80 ouYGnrwgV9p4nKIbxPKNaaw1ubA87d3hgTng6rg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYCKui49ekjgWR70ahcuMJerdetafaDrElVTxM5BZsweN5lm1aRJQ9IgRLYl4b5+WgLqBg7PD5cWXJJ/SvOX7c= X-Received: by 10.176.11.5 with SMTP id b5mr14103253uak.118.1511242258082; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:30:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.69.68 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:30:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.176.69.68 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 21:30:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Mark Smith Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:30:57 +1100 Message-ID: To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>, v6ops list , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08266864f67310055e77814c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 05:31:01 -0000 --089e08266864f67310055e77814c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Fred, I think this fundamentally violates the principle that the network is application agnostic or transparent, allowing it to support any new host residing application without any upgrades to the network. I think the principle of network application transparency should apply to application configuration. We don't have to upgrade routers to carry new application protocols, we shouldn't have to upgrade routers to support configuring new applications. "Internet Transparency and Application Configuration" https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-v6ops-ce-dhcpv6-transparency-00#section-2 Regards, Mark. On 21 Nov. 2017 08:41, "Templin, Fred L" wrote: > Hello, > > IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 have traditionally been thought of as independent > functions, > with the requirement that the IPv6 ND RS/RA exchange has to happen first > so that > the node can examine the M/O bits to determine whether it can use DHCPv6. > As > nearly as I can tell, this two round-trip process (IPv6 RS/RA followed by > DHCPv6 > Solicit/Reply) is the only argument conceivable against DHCPv6 from a > functional > standpoint. > > The two round-trip process can add significant delay and waste bandwidth > especially > on low-end data links like many aviation wireless links. It can also > impart unnecessary > messaging overhead on more robust links during periods of congestion. > > This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 where > the two functions work together as if they were one. This is accommodated > by > a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option". By > working > together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nodes > with > all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed > address/prefix > delegations in a single round trip message exchange. > > I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really > don't > like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't like the way > the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an > onerous > stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to consider what a > replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement > would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. > > Comments? > > Fred > > > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:21 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > Title : The DHCPv6 Option for IPv6 Neighbor Discovery > Author : Fred L. Templin > Filename : draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2017-11-20 > > Abstract: > IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (IPv6ND) specifies a control message set for > nodes to discover neighbors, routers, prefixes and other services on > the link. It also supports a manner of StateLess Address > AutoConfiguration (SLAAC). The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol > for IPv6 (DHCPv6) specifies a service for the stateful delegation of > addresses and prefixes. > > Currently, at least two round-trip message exchanges are necessary in > order to perform the IPv6ND router discovery and DHCPv6 address/ > prefix delegation functions. This document presents a protocol for > combining these two round trips into a single round trip by joining > the two services into a single unified service. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > --089e08266864f67310055e77814c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

I t= hink this fundamentally violates the principle that the network is applicat= ion agnostic or transparent, allowing it to support any new host residing a= pplication without any upgrades to the network. I think the principle of ne= twork application transparency should apply to application configuration.

We don't have to upgr= ade routers to carry new application protocols, we shouldn't have to up= grade routers to support configuring new applications.

"Internet Transparency and Application Configuration"=
;


Regard= s,
Mark.




On 21 Nov. 2017 08:41, "Templin, = Fred L" <Fred.L.Templi= n@boeing.com> wrote:
Hello,

IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 have traditionally been thought of as independent functi= ons,
with the requirement that the IPv6 ND RS/RA exchange has to happen first so= that
the node can examine the M/O bits to determine whether it can use DHCPv6. A= s
nearly as I can tell, this two round-trip process (IPv6 RS/RA followed by D= HCPv6
Solicit/Reply) is the only argument conceivable against DHCPv6 from a funct= ional
standpoint.

The two round-trip process can add significant delay and waste bandwidth es= pecially
on low-end data links like many aviation wireless links. It can also impart= unnecessary
messaging overhead on more robust links during periods of congestion.

This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 where<= br> the two functions work together as if they were one. This is accommodated b= y
a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option"= . By working
together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nodes wi= th
all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed address/pre= fix
delegations in a single round trip message exchange.

I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really d= on't
like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't like the= way
the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an onerou= s
stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to consider what a=
replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement
would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does.

Comments?

Fred


-----Original Message-----
From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:21 PM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= The DHCPv6 Option for IPv6 Neighbor Discovery
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Fred= L. Templin
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-tem= plin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 6
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-11-20

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (IPv6ND) specifies a control message s= et for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nodes to discover neighbors, routers, prefixes and other servi= ces on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the link.=C2=A0 It also supports a manner of StateLess Address=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0AutoConfiguration (SLAAC).=C2=A0 The Dynamic Host Configuratio= n Protocol
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for IPv6 (DHCPv6) specifies a service for the stateful delegat= ion of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0addresses and prefixes.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Currently, at least two round-trip message exchanges are neces= sary in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0order to perform the IPv6ND router discovery and DHCPv6 addres= s/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix delegation functions.=C2=A0 This document presents a pr= otocol for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0combining these two round trips into a single round trip by jo= ining
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the two services into a single unified service.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= /a>
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


_______________________________________________
v6ops mailing list
v6ops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
--089e08266864f67310055e77814c-- From nobody Mon Nov 20 22:26:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 509D012EB2B; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:26:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jW5QS-H9p4C8; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D12AD12EB3B; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id D811CB1; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:33 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1511245533; bh=fkBGjQ941tGk3kC34q5Zsia2PYuYDqFxiJTlwq7su5w=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=p5qDXCLmRyApjqZ4ZVGIkH9hPdYT18EtlLgZbJ44XhOFmjuN0Grqd9K1TCvRkZpOJ x3CNtrpB4hBuKM17wdlbdwAgMgaPrGGpxnaE2jpnu/g5G3SWJcEZHpMOhgU/GXt7lC 2PYyyQF4dTanTK9bLekpwMuhXcWnTxPQZzDVJD7U= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4261B0; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:25:33 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Mark Smith cc: "Templin, Fred L" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , v6ops list , 6MAN <6man@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:26:02 -0000 On Tue, 21 Nov 2017, Mark Smith wrote: > Hi Fred, > > I think this fundamentally violates the principle that the network is > application agnostic or transparent, allowing it to support any new host > residing application without any upgrades to the network. I think the > principle of network application transparency should apply to application > configuration. > > We don't have to upgrade routers to carry new application protocols, we > shouldn't have to upgrade routers to support configuring new applications. > > "Internet Transparency and Application Configuration" > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-v6ops-ce-dhcpv6-transparency-00#section-2 DHCP is a pain for rapidly changing (perhaps mobile) environments. It's fundamentally a polling protocol where the network hands out resources for a certain amount of time, and there is little chance to invalidate them. It's stateful. Devices need addresses to communicate. So if environments that are dynamic and require fast/short setup times to gain addresses, then we need the network to support that. This is not an "application" as in a program running somewhere. This is a deployment scenario where devices need addresses quickly with short turnaround times and in a bandwidth constrained environment. Saying we can't change the network to support this is just silly. So you think 6lo was a bad idea and violated the network agonostic principle? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Mon Nov 20 22:48:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790481276AF for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:48:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zi54A7ROcZhx for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb0-x22c.google.com (mail-yb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B002127444 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:48:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id q84so883788ybc.10 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:48:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SQ+jf+k5U0corcBjvGIXPcHmyQRbZWjIrr+icRwU0Qk=; b=SENsDxiE2zDlm7ZS0gj1E675tL0iXu976bGBQk66RdbBeCmuTNx6gfSWa9IKlIPL1b FtpxboHezUnr0ftCq/NoSTR27+z3FBUJogbsGZN9TdbP6NczXrgK5IhHlNdCw2Gwgww4 BAdJH3TsvdpiGqIBdR9aaxZGQZmsTGjEW6D9xPiqkngjdVKh3t9LyOc7//3VvF0IpH2f d7rm4IEuRG2he93D5ovKVf7SX6JYrp9RVSQCsD/YbO7D55RsbQIgnG7djPXAU4KqQNHS eQioXQ5TZuR4IycIyrnfLH9roRGqDmEQ4b4vQTu8cN5sYn6QCRuxL4fL6N/lU7Lhz2sJ pUTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SQ+jf+k5U0corcBjvGIXPcHmyQRbZWjIrr+icRwU0Qk=; b=N1HqX7U/xUqRvUncjY91Wi/oixsDjuRNHW7aoEbEnGtQVvoFaOnixw9dLpbNPaF6IC 9xpwMZtixRrcxXDc/A0HLYbhu60sLmhSdtbfUD/wdRflIa6AUnQjK++MXIKIwkLFfPX0 GjpYVPds5X0D+7SCbGqazEe5e0jjMWR7iuCn+g91lWFeJjrMKpKaTTHJaDwNSTNdRulF usMx5XzAcmLTlwkHdYddeRq1QVsHtyug23eIZ51spbeP2NVvM/hqYYPWRHy+2QH1tqvU KZ5DuMaX/R2z76LhJKE0uqzcjh7J4QLp9tetXsSYTdltvZB8BhOQdLcyMhzhptfCj+PW Z8bA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6+yVUJyNOj9NJ4hDablPYJ72qm4OpFgJ28gKN1UxF1z0zNA+FF 15jzM9fKVYdjkhMsHHsA5tr0K2dfkZgiYS1w/bo5Vg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaW8QvqdgK5DImGhQXoeexE+HjuOwVIie6ut7k44jcd1tCpEmfSpLGzNSrzFMqSd2tGOGrMSYfkRFBQrZEgNHE= X-Received: by 10.37.203.85 with SMTP id b82mr6452268ybg.57.1511246887209; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:48:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.4.194 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:47:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:47:46 +0900 Message-ID: To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c05bdcce243cb055e789515" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 06:48:10 -0000 --94eb2c05bdcce243cb055e789515 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really > don't > like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. As generally implemented and deployed, I think the main things that are wrong with DHCPv6 are as follows. Note that these are not necessarily limits imposed the protocol itself, but they are definitely limits imposed by the implementations and how people typically deploy them. As such, the following are not required to be true, but are only true in practice in the vast majority of deployments. - In stateful form: - Inability to support multiple sources of information (the client picks the first lease it gets). - Very difficult to update devices when network changes because it's fundamentally based on leases and renews and RECONFIGURE is not (widely) implemented. - Makes possible stateful address assignment of individual IP addresses. It's really not a good idea to rely only on this for IP addressing, but there are decades of operational practice around it in IPv4 and old habits (and legacy deployed systems) die hard. - Typically deployed using relays and centralized assignment, which is very unsuited to topology changes. - If all you have is a central addressing server, you don't want to bother that server with constant topology updates from all over the network so it can update the hosts. - Also, if the topology changes enough, the server might even be unreachable from some hosts. - In stateless form: - Very hard to update devices when anything changes on the network. The minimum in the stateless DHCPv6 RFC is 10 minutes, which is *way* too long for certain types of networks like mobile hotspots. The inability to update hosts with new network information is a crucial weakness because it forces networks to appear to hosts as if they never change. But networks change all the time. If you can't update the hosts on a timely basis about a changes, either you never change the network, or you have an outage, or you lie to the hosts. So we end up with things like VRRP and NAT to ensure the host never sees the network change. NAT, of course, is the ultimate way of never changing anything - you could deploy IPv4 by assigning every host on every network 192.168.1.2 (gateway and DNS server 192.16.1.1) and just NATing everything with layer-2 aware NAT. --94eb2c05bdcce243cb055e789515 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boei= ng.com> wrote:
I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you r= eally don't
like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly.

<= div>As generally implemented and deployed, I think the main things that are= wrong with DHCPv6 are as follows. Note that these are not necessarily limi= ts imposed the protocol itself, but they are definitely limits imposed by t= he implementations and how people typically deploy them. As such, the follo= wing are not required to be true, but are only true in practice in the vast= majority of deployments.
  • In stateful form:
    • I= nability to support multiple sources of information (the client picks the f= irst lease it gets).
    • Very difficult to update devices when network = changes because it's fundamentally based on leases and renews and RECON= FIGURE is not (widely) implemented.
    • Makes possible stateful address= assignment of individual IP addresses. It's really not a good idea to = rely only on this for IP addressing, but there are decades of operational p= ractice around it in IPv4 and old habits (and legacy deployed systems) die = hard.
    • Typically=C2=A0deployed using relays and centralized assignme= nt, which is very unsuited to topology changes.
      • If all you have= is a central addressing server, you don't want to bother that server w= ith constant topology updates from all over the network so it can update th= e hosts.
      • Also, if the topology changes enough, the server might eve= n be unreachable from some hosts.
  • In stateless form:
    • =
    • Very hard to update devices when anything changes on the network. T= he minimum in the stateless DHCPv6 RFC is 10 minutes, which is *way* too lo= ng for certain types of networks like mobile hotspots.
T= he inability to update hosts with new network information is a crucial weak= ness because it forces networks to appear to hosts as if they never change.= But networks change all the time. If you can't update the hosts on a t= imely basis about a changes, either you never change the network, or you ha= ve an outage, or you lie to the hosts. So we end up with things like VRRP a= nd NAT to ensure the host never sees the network change.

NAT, of course, is the ultimate way of never changing anything - you= could deploy IPv4 by assigning every host on every network 192.168.1.2 (ga= teway and DNS server 192.16.1.1) and just NATing everything with layer-2 aw= are NAT.
--94eb2c05bdcce243cb055e789515-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 07:52:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2818412955F; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:52:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HW-fkMptjflL; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50E5C129534; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vALFojDV013407; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:50:45 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.238.222]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vALFobZS013336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:50:38 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:50:37 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:50:37 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Mark Smith CC: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>, v6ops list , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAhww6AAASvdJA= Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:50:37 +0000 Message-ID: <73d88abadeb643c68670093eee31d31a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_73d88abadeb643c68670093eee31d31aXCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0b0zPSomPZxK; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:59:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4083A1296B0; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:57:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vALFvcvU025442; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:57:38 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.219]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vALFvTCG025189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:57:29 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdb::8988:efdb) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:57:29 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 07:57:29 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Mark Smith CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , v6ops list , 6MAN <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAhww6AAAHoKYAAAvzUoA== Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:59:52 -0000 Hi Mikael, > -----Original Message----- > From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:26 PM > To: Mark Smith > Cc: Templin, Fred L ; dhcwg@ietf.org; v6ops li= st ; 6MAN <6man@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified = function >=20 > On Tue, 21 Nov 2017, Mark Smith wrote: >=20 > > Hi Fred, > > > > I think this fundamentally violates the principle that the network is > > application agnostic or transparent, allowing it to support any new hos= t > > residing application without any upgrades to the network. I think the > > principle of network application transparency should apply to applicati= on > > configuration. > > > > We don't have to upgrade routers to carry new application protocols, we > > shouldn't have to upgrade routers to support configuring new applicatio= ns. > > > > "Internet Transparency and Application Configuration" > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-v6ops-ce-dhcpv6-transparency-00= #section-2 >=20 > DHCP is a pain for rapidly changing (perhaps mobile) environments. It's I am using DHCPv6 PD for mobile hosts and networks over VPNs and it works great. If the node moves, it simply sends an IPv6ND unsolicited NA message to update the router's neighbor cache, and the prefix delegation remains stable.=20 > fundamentally a polling protocol where the network hands out resources fo= r > a certain amount of time, and there is little chance to invalidate them. DHCPv6 Release is the client's function for invalidating prefix delegations= . DHCPv6 Reconfigure is the router's function for invalidating them. > It's stateful. Anything that manages a delegated prefix is going to necessarily be statefu= l. If a different stateful protocol were developed it would be a functional equivalent of DHCPv6.=20 > Devices need addresses to communicate. So if environments that are dynami= c > and require fast/short setup times to gain addresses, then we need the > network to support that. >=20 > This is not an "application" as in a program running somewhere. This is a > deployment scenario where devices need addresses quickly with short > turnaround times and in a bandwidth constrained environment. Saying we > can't change the network to support this is just silly. >=20 > So you think 6lo was a bad idea and violated the network agonostic > principle? I don't know how the above relates to DHCPv6. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com =20 > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Tue Nov 21 23:19:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF771128B38; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LONGWORDS=2.035, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4fO-vw4tl3GY; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua0-x229.google.com (mail-ua0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9826126B71; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 108so9988677uaf.2; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jjL03jsDFGZA1hGK95LCPER95NpwRhSyHUIX6cVvUIc=; b=WdtzxXEFwLtyR/+lhXTJniW/pwy/GGC6jnmUwCWp8ALIByCWJBGj8b5Zo0V0LOGgIy k4DN5crr6xkIGf/wkmgOipRebt3DIjTkCgeFCqw+AtI3icB25sCOSyXgIXEZTdaiVgul wdLkjNjE+IgjURFGg1XQBbUBQ1Qr4hrcLjReS0Dyk33fHih67a0njg56QKFzYI7KvACi utxnI4CR0F7WIvMJ2k387S065Dg0z3CQ8XohjF6vwVO6gYISf1mr6PkYz2KziMT/VtZe Db/Ydprk23ACgib0EqmOvqfysrO8khLsuRYU3LgXy+Czw5Vg+I/nr624xpx7zq1MeMkh 3FKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jjL03jsDFGZA1hGK95LCPER95NpwRhSyHUIX6cVvUIc=; b=LHScaVlkJn0BICTL4NDVr++zHMYnIt8kdZuwOXPXA4m9MNP+CK1Zo9XbHFFiveW72y Na5R6DgIOr3rHhSATw1kzKimOQrjQoamdXNBZTojcSbRPoM0z07uHghzwmmkMnbID7BZ Wni/Gcn3agjmwWPmEGwRuI9KZEboFvDILq659HNsCZvpA5vuXRdWq0YhKxDy5QYNxYu4 Qn7re2ez1DDF4xpYRurhs9V9b/7uIg2GPg826MfPzb7mzfjENHrJ9cPkS/Tn2iDr/fiV 63gHYOllK7YnhTX5fa4eyd06/8whZc3YNY6AbesaJSdyBjcf3LYinCWlc7n6ykkMHlV8 Rrkw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6My8Hnfc9jNSYtlTNet5sFhcAxqrF25tn+oiciCN0VksPBH7NU LpbEehyPfvDgYKPRuwbZuwKswUv8NI6iOeh584o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbWAYFLkrmvzs8rT4iWVL7BCYbgHAOJgiD/tEO1YFbqlfnhCv60fSygw90aXlLJHs/yCr5wM1HRyF/wyXSP11M= X-Received: by 10.176.78.17 with SMTP id g17mr16520680uah.169.1511335149766; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.69.68 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.176.69.68 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:19:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7F30D7F6-7859-4D2B-B550-8C8CB944FF9F@steffann.nl> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <7F30D7F6-7859-4D2B-B550-8C8CB944FF9F@steffann.nl> From: Mark Smith Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:19:09 +1100 Message-ID: To: Sander Steffann Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , dhcwg@ietf.org, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043c48acbd0bdd055e8d2213" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:19:13 -0000 --f403043c48acbd0bdd055e8d2213 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 21 Nov. 2017 10:34 am, "Sander Steffann" wrote: Hi, > This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 where > the two functions work together as if they were one. This is accommodated by > a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option". By working > together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nodes with > all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed address/prefix > delegations in a single round trip message exchange. Interesting way of doing this. I have thought about combining ND and DHCPv6 before, but more as a different distribution mechanism: ND for pushing options to all clients on the network, So how often do you want to upgrade router firmware? Everytime you want to deploy an application that uses a new DHCPV6 option? What do you do when the router vendor says, "we're never going to implement that new DHCPV6 option in that router model, we don't have enough customers any more for that model to justify all the development and testing time". Never deploy the application? What do you do if the router before says, "that DHCPv6 option is on our implementation road map, we're expecting to implement it in 6 months time."? Wait six months before you deploy the application? Pushing layer 4+ configuration options into ND creates a dependency on router firmware for application deployment that doesn't exist today in either ND or DHCPV6. Another example of this trap. Remember that NTP amplification DoS from 3 or 4 years ago? One place I'm aware of were using their PE routers to also provide customers with NTP time, and the router implementation was vulnerable. From memory, the vendor took around a week to release a fix. Then the next 6 to 8 weeks were spent organising high impact change controls because router firmware upgrades either required reboots or there was a hazard of one. The number of PE routers was in the 10s, imagine time and effort, and vulnerability exposure time if there were 100s or 1000s of PE routers providing NTP time to customers. Compare that to if the NTP service/application was not "in" the network, not "in" the routers' control planes, and as service reachable over the network. Only patches to the NTP servers would have been necessary, and there would have been far fewer of those. and DHCPv6 for clients requesting specific options for themselves. Just to make it possible to use both mechanisms for all options (MAP/DSLite/etc options in RA would be nice). What you are doing is another way of looking at it. If I understand correctly you're basically keeping the full functionality of DHCPv6 but using RS/RA as a transport instead of UDP. I wonder what the speed benefit of that would be in practice. Also compared to "impatient" systems that send out DHCPv6 a request before even receiving an RA. > I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really don't > like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't like the way > the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an onerous > stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to consider what a > replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement > would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. In my opinion DHCPv6 is fine. I implemented a server and it is a *lot* cleaner to implement than DHCPv4. Just plain UDP on link-local and multicast sockets :) Especially the stateless version is very easy to implement. It's not the ultimate configuration protocol, and for certain things distributing information via RA is a much better fit to the way the network is run. But DHCPv6 has its place and its role, and in certain environments (DHCPv6-PD in ISP networks, DHCPv6 in enterprise etc) it does what the network and system operators need. The main problem with DHCPv6 as an operator has been dealing with DUIDs when the link-layer address in the DUID is based on a different interface than the interface sending the DHCPv6 request. Mostly because the requesting interface's MAC address has always been used with DHCPv4 and is often printed on the outside of the device. But these days LDRA and DHCPv6 relays can tell the DHCPv6 server what the MAC address of the requesting interface was, and we can use that to identify the client (in addition to its DUID). With vendors starting to implement this relay option this is mostly a solved problem now. Another thing that makes me a bit sad is the lack of DHCPv6 reconfigure support. That could be used to take away some of the complaints against DHCPv6 (and any client-initiated configuration protocol) that there is no way for the network to inform the client of changes. I see no need to replace it with something else that would indeed need to duplicate its functionality. Cheers, Sander -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --f403043c48acbd0bdd055e8d2213 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 21 Nov. 2017 10:34 am, "Sander Steffann" <sander@steffann.nl> wrote:
Hi,

> This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 w= here
> the two functions work together as if they were one. This is accommoda= ted by
> a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option&= quot;. By working
> together as one function, IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nod= es with
> all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed addres= s/prefix
> delegations in a single round trip message exchange.

Interesting way of doing this. I have thought about combining ND and = DHCPv6 before, but more as a different distribution mechanism: ND for pushi= ng options to all clients on the network,

So how often do you want to upgr= ade router firmware? Everytime you want to deploy an application that uses = a new DHCPV6 option?

Wha= t do you do when the router vendor says, "we're never going to imp= lement that new DHCPV6 option in that router model, we don't have enoug= h customers any more for that model to justify all the development and test= ing time". Never deploy the application?

What do you do if the router before says, "that = DHCPv6 option is on our implementation road map, we're expecting to imp= lement it in 6 months time."? Wait six months before you deploy the ap= plication?

Pushing layer= 4+ configuration options into ND creates a dependency on router firmware f= or application deployment that doesn't exist today in either ND or DHCP= V6.

Another example of t= his trap. Remember that NTP amplification DoS from 3 or 4 years ago? One pl= ace I'm aware of were using their PE routers to also provide customers = with NTP time, and the router implementation was vulnerable. From memory, t= he vendor took around a week to release a fix. Then the next 6 to 8 weeks w= ere spent organising high impact change controls because router firmware up= grades either required reboots or there was a hazard of one. The number of = PE routers was in the 10s, imagine time and effort, and vulnerability expos= ure time if there were 100s or 1000s of PE routers providing NTP time to cu= stomers.

Compare that to= if the NTP service/application was not "in" the network, not &qu= ot;in" the routers' control planes, and as service reachable over = the network. Only patches to the NTP servers would have been necessary, and= there would have been far fewer of those.



=
and DHCPv6 for clients requesting specific= options for themselves. Just to make it possible to use both mechanisms fo= r all options (MAP/DSLite/etc options in RA would be nice).

What you are doing is another way of looking at it. If I understand correct= ly you're basically keeping the full functionality of DHCPv6 but using = RS/RA as a transport instead of UDP. I wonder what the speed benefit of tha= t would be in practice. Also compared to "impatient" systems that= send out DHCPv6 a request before even receiving an RA.

> I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you rea= lly don't
> like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you don't lik= e the way
> the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an o= nerous
> stigma of being stateful. But, then I would also ask you to consider w= hat a
> replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement=
> would have to essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does.

In my opinion DHCPv6 is fine. I implemented a server and it is a *lot= * cleaner to implement than DHCPv4. Just plain UDP on link-local and multic= ast sockets :)=C2=A0 Especially the stateless version is very easy to imple= ment. It's not the ultimate configuration protocol, and for certain thi= ngs distributing information via RA is a much better fit to the way the net= work is run. But DHCPv6 has its place and its role, and in certain environm= ents (DHCPv6-PD in ISP networks, DHCPv6 in enterprise etc) it does what the= network and system operators need.

The main problem with DHCPv6 as an operator has been dealing with DUIDs whe= n the link-layer address in the DUID is based on a different interface than= the interface sending the DHCPv6 request. Mostly because the requesting in= terface's MAC address has always been used with DHCPv4 and is often pri= nted on the outside of the device. But these days LDRA and DHCPv6 relays ca= n tell the DHCPv6 server what the MAC address of the requesting interface w= as, and we can use that to identify the client (in addition to its DUID). W= ith vendors starting to implement this relay option this is mostly a solved= problem now.

Another thing that makes me a bit sad is the lack of DHCPv6 reconfigure sup= port. That could be used to take away some of the complaints against DHCPv6= (and any client-initiated configuration protocol) that there is no way for= the network to inform the client of changes.

I see no need to replace it with something else that would indeed need to d= uplicate its functionality.

Cheers,
Sander

-----------------------------------------------------------------= ---
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
-----------------------------------------------------------------= ---

--f403043c48acbd0bdd055e8d2213-- From nobody Tue Nov 21 23:33:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D7D12EB4A for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:33:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.035 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.035 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LONGWORDS=2.035, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JL3FlD2wjg4u for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb0-x230.google.com (mail-yb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D643712EB47 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb0-x230.google.com with SMTP id i126so5531473ybi.12 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:33:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=G4xKUa6+HAprE45vV0YEbcl72O5FS1IYmIKDP3tZnEE=; b=P22BOuSY4wQ4Ao4F0kXBRR+MZJ1OhoYZSBIVw90CtBPMyWOOdh8x1vLgigWQiXqwfg N2ZyXaEyPA582qarRXuUdxqDPD7eJMN/U2A31Y+l5Tt1MCD59ykDg3umwlv4qULcW1UY NMcdb3k7C/B2AKdGZRaT1+Itzr4xrKN5B3MbtiiRso4OIKOAnCOCrzLxy/CZ/16pJk9V dwpq/ALXxYYkyijkyOvlALLsXm0w5g2o1qt/mwZTILMMJprXDSSSUc2g5nTd+Nmy4QR0 Nwwh9CL3kyyuprR1X5m5U2NVOTxYyKsWJAXudbmXyj1ubdDrJjdiJ+LczkhgNG/YHFUy 4/3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=G4xKUa6+HAprE45vV0YEbcl72O5FS1IYmIKDP3tZnEE=; b=RtaQk+au+x2/1bC6GyJeOavZqP6QPdp2p/UOZktqDg3A/Ny23r+SnkjM/iZJ6IC1H9 fNeXHObRgmrcDfDH07P2MMjuAosIRMZyrgO8AWEfNCau+sh/P63hgdaOuOwFXkVNei59 S0933PlQQF3YGUpSALYNJ7uMa6f+WWOEOrRDEWk5V0Gq+Ogz7GXUzA/FkAJ+NBC2Ghv5 V050WLxjcjs0BYnxTwwBGeHWIluYcrH5WiV9kZXVTJ6i5tm2PyIxNu5YNjoZbFWnRTwc fvxrDAztms5ELGTTuqlWr2QQupJTbM2QC93glU7FpFXmgGoeV97cdeN8lvpTlI3qnEr8 1/tw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4pSu/Y9cbkNLP04ibDqLPB3BETS1tZqAipYaK3TrUt4HJmbrOk u23IiCahsEbS8Y3AnTHu6ZFYoCv7f3uggv2ENAoYyxN9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbDUyjFKEDafZ8EvUydtVHDJ+R+PHpw06BpeOkILp6GEsmt3jJqZZRi6zQDIN6AaB154cy0aYdpETA1E0/5MhM= X-Received: by 10.37.66.75 with SMTP id p72mr13086674yba.63.1511336007721; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:33:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.4.194 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:33:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <7F30D7F6-7859-4D2B-B550-8C8CB944FF9F@steffann.nl> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:33:07 +0900 Message-ID: To: Mark Smith Cc: Sander Steffann , dhcwg@ietf.org, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c04b04e0ee4f055e8d55ee" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:33:30 -0000 --001a11c04b04e0ee4f055e8d55ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Mark Smith wrote: > Pushing layer 4+ configuration options into ND creates a dependency on > router firmware for application deployment that doesn't exist today in > either ND or DHCPV6. > > Another example of this trap. Remember that NTP amplification DoS from 3 > or 4 years ago? One place I'm aware of were using their PE routers to also > provide customers with NTP time, and the router implementation was > vulnerable. From memory, the vendor took around a week to release a fix. > Then the next 6 to 8 weeks were spent organising high impact change > controls because router firmware upgrades either required reboots or there > was a hazard of one. The number of PE routers was in the 10s, imagine time > and effort, and vulnerability exposure time if there were 100s or 1000s of > PE routers providing NTP time to customers. > > Compare that to if the NTP service/application was not "in" the network, > not "in" the routers' control planes, and as service reachable over the > network. Only patches to the NTP servers would have been necessary, and > there would have been far fewer of those. > These are all good reasons for ND being limited to only those options that are strictly necessary for connectivity. There are those who argue that even DHCPv6 is too low-level for that sort of thing and that application-level configuration should be moved to another protocol. --001a11c04b04e0ee4f055e8d55ee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On W= ed, Nov 22, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Pushing layer 4+ configuration options into ND creates a de= pendency on router firmware for application deployment that doesn't exi= st today in either ND or DHCPV6.

Another example of this trap. Remember that NTP amplifi= cation DoS from 3 or 4 years ago? One place I'm aware of were using the= ir PE routers to also provide customers with NTP time, and the router imple= mentation was vulnerable. From memory, the vendor took around a week to rel= ease a fix. Then the next 6 to 8 weeks were spent organising high impact ch= ange controls because router firmware upgrades either required reboots or t= here was a hazard of one. The number of PE routers was in the 10s, imagine = time and effort, and vulnerability exposure time if there were 100s or 1000= s of PE routers providing NTP time to customers.
Compare that to if the NTP service/application was= not "in" the network, not "in" the routers' contro= l planes, and as service reachable over the network. Only patches to the NT= P servers would have been necessary, and there would have been far fewer of= those.

These are all good reas= ons for ND being limited to only those options that are strictly necessary = for connectivity. There are those who argue that even DHCPv6 is too low-lev= el for that sort of thing and that application-level configuration should b= e moved to another protocol.
--001a11c04b04e0ee4f055e8d55ee-- From nobody Wed Nov 22 07:25:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C2412944C; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:25:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.184 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LONGWORDS=2.035, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bvXQjwLdYmJE; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No 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"Templin, Fred L" To: Mark Smith , Sander Steffann CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgBHE5fNABDBcvA= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:25:20 +0000 Message-ID: <8593f50c724f4cbaa549c7cd6e6b91c0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <7F30D7F6-7859-4D2B-B550-8C8CB944FF9F@steffann.nl> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8593f50c724f4cbaa549c7cd6e6b91c0XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 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[137.136.239.220]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAMFqMhA013247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:52:22 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdc::8988:efdc) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:52:21 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 07:52:21 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Lorenzo Colitti CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAkcdkAADO+44A= Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 15:52:21 +0000 Message-ID: <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3F882B25; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:53:50 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "dhcwg\@ietf.org" , "v6ops\@ietf.org" , "6man\@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:53:54 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP (configuration) options in ND/RA. I think that they are most often stateless (i.e. not addresses at all or other resources). I've heard the IPv4 PPP folks lament that they should have just had an IPCP option to carry DHCPv4 options, and indeed that's why we have almost no IP6CP options, as it's all done by ND and DHCPv6. {Having implemented a DHCPv6 server just to serve PPP links, it really feels dumb. Yes, the management is all centralized, but it's centralized via RADIUS, not via DHCP relays. } So I suggest that Fred should go ahead with his document as Experimental, with our blessing, and an obligation to report on how well it works in his situation. Given the timescales that I think his industry works at, he might need more time than an average Experimental code allocation. He would have to deal how/if/when all experimental systems would be withdrawn should the experiment be unsuccessful, I think. I guess he could use ND codes 253/254, but I think an assignment would not kill here. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAloVq54ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVBNQf/dGSMArhAYik9rBPqi5zChB/fhiJPPN4ytZ8HeFwKVKDeby3kNtr9KQ7i DjCkX7VXPmspkhbSY47f7dBsH3DqRAvxNVnlMzUGeWedVFsT06VSrxpxzX0DeVAA //gegRPw/UPjNkQHZtkA61Lea++jO46RiYNAdy+IXHdO/NZh7B7Zo5KW+S4rQxWJ xUYSbQrs8hfR6Kx9acFPpXr6MrkfGmD6Ig3Rzo7kuzCt7nE6jP4adnAhLT5iBwOq wLGtsSkJB4qeF/NvmUc7ZddC9QOTUSj763FfkxYxPfFKuRD2TtrHwg38k4pJ9nIU YdkxhEq2AObGuqwL+iD0lGX0qwjbeA== =nKEy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Nov 22 09:31:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B31129494; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:31:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5cly663AL68p; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 179D5129492; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vAMHVe5r048212; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:31:40 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.238.222]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vAMHVUSJ047750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:31:30 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:31:29 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:31:29 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Michael Richardson , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAkcdkAADO+44AAE7ZgAAAPkJMw Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:31:29 +0000 Message-ID: <53abe623d4bd418c9799b9e8d94e8006@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:31:42 -0000 Hi Michael, This isn't an experiment; this is a unified stateless/stateful autoconfigur= ation service for IPv6 for all time. We all want prefix delegation, and that will necessarily be a stateful func= tion. And, if the prefix delegation service would not be DHCPv6 PD then we would need to develop a new PD architecture. Either way, though, it should be implemented as a unified function with IPv6ND. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 8:54 AM > To: dhcwg@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified = function >=20 >=20 > My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP > (configuration) options in ND/RA. >=20 > I think that they are most often stateless (i.e. not addresses at all or > other resources). >=20 > I've heard the IPv4 PPP folks lament that they should have just had an IP= CP > option to carry DHCPv4 options, and indeed that's why we have almost no I= P6CP > options, as it's all done by ND and DHCPv6. >=20 > {Having implemented a DHCPv6 server just to serve PPP links, it really fe= els > dumb. Yes, the management is all centralized, but it's centralized via > RADIUS, not via DHCP relays. } >=20 > So I suggest that Fred should go ahead with his document as Experimental, > with our blessing, and an obligation to report on how well it works in > his situation. Given the timescales that I think his industry works at,= he > might need more time than an average Experimental code allocation. > He would have to deal how/if/when all experimental systems would be withd= rawn > should the experiment be unsuccessful, I think. >=20 > I guess he could use ND codes 253/254, but I think an assignment would no= t > kill here. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Nov 22 16:19:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44531293E4; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:19:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i-VebzRhkgg7; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x230.google.com (mail-ot0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0620A126C22; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:18:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x230.google.com with SMTP id u10so15015084otc.12; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:18:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=mkVHLGosuK6D4fvH5NX735h1EAbKVAXRkwin/j2h4iU=; b=extC4uDo9MJNqdc/fKhxmqTVEUwIxxOVlZqaLtDcms5XRcH6rYr1NuDYjUiCs4jqOO cmmprSlrbt0Oss+kUa1JQH0GRHerwb1KL5JmgJspuF2kytEXdhOnWWqen+un2TU8tZBG DEUdyQCrpzb9XfzCqOod6HGtjQTA9accgSXy4/HOH2D9dMhu84ECdIwKDfRmefLco7IL CUzcHJGmif9ogYdk3XOpxDgd3o62Guh+fcyX9+RbCRJR24yYJYHIXPPCj66/GVpu3J5v FWAXkdBA6ju+U6cOxT1Uc35zEBSWwQky3E128onE3/aOReQTfwPIMh+5qucNCP2iYwi8 EKAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=mkVHLGosuK6D4fvH5NX735h1EAbKVAXRkwin/j2h4iU=; b=UkU0uq4QA+8qQSYYew9URp+HTza+rqelJ3oeWDan2e9+O3QSprY5Gt4HsYOXxH6ppA Qo1D2xmTivUDdX01+hzjuSSoZGBOsIVfI/Yk79WxvmJ3SrO8TSWdCO4flknVEtwLBsLC b33txHgZMLR5xMRJ7Az88jMssnIKdiQOomeMr6iUbjKXvHOzTlTDcZD43om4/Z4pZ9aU mlmilZn6jwCKPF/9f/SwRAhzoEKX9X7PyeF2nkz20XKWDto6CGGcTG2lEMR73ucI4Bxb nipwEWOHaA6tgiqteR57iHKmjCJ16PpCQoO0oAjsaIdJ7JS6tHK3W37iIlF7WpURGgPU PDzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7QDbhFx/2F2g9qcVkAL5xxh0mT/WHl3Wk061BeJl6qEugWEGB4 cJt8puFT/Y20+Sf7nrDsmOMu7zPd X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZuSsk6cEn3qwf5uaLvzSgMtZVNeDhlZ6LWVUND7eQjLNkJjJ/X4Kxm8cZhyPTzmMtjmNT0RA== X-Received: by 10.157.8.163 with SMTP id 32mr14250859otf.114.1511396338391; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5600:f7a::1005? ([2600:8802:5600:f7a::1005]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r184sm6900080oia.40.2017.11.22.16.18.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:18:57 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7ADA12C3-756D-4F37-B43D-1A8598748450"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:18:54 -0800 In-Reply-To: <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> To: Michael Richardson References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 00:19:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7ADA12C3-756D-4F37-B43D-1A8598748450 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP > (configuration) options in ND/RA. On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that = carries any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if RAs = encompassed DHCP options. --Apple-Mail=_7ADA12C3-756D-4F37-B43D-1A8598748450 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAloWE+4ACgkQEhdRnd2G P+CpkhAAmBXEEfCxZSoRTbbFwPifHGgJsokbFLqUCgz40Ss+K6onZFZM6o+fBAA3 HWfKNhAa1vzVdsBUuoUp6t7hD1ZMnnuUJZM9eNoRmDg0G4TIM2aRYDCe3a/SFeWD pminvtyW9sbf4VJWKst3Mr9rwJPFLpjE8kfoxN5xHYQobknwn/519PRHXMxuDHjT OesGZ964TVPBUlgS3VTBaZgsV55icCps9URIBH3Xe70YQ1od4I8lDYkRLTmYxcKf 4gFI6HiuUNWGtHbCizKaeHeY0LHL60yRrigxHDTOFYJM75ONOIU3UXD7VQvFVP5A 9LskBIh+u1RR0wbAJ2dNXq42FEAUOy/wtpkkrJKNq1JkDhAaEX6gmY3m7K//rNpi MBA86PzWKSZ9mMpCYK98d7qTGDndvg/ufRqMaR7c718GnwVsRrVvpAexDxoYMrAt 4c2POCVJfwrrK/swo105gMxMhgy5hZ4qXwufcWTAe1rd//bNsFVa1rwZoZ+Dl6VO /kY1O1sQ+fP3sfiFmW9HkNvrs0TwLmV1clySZVkMfk2KqHGZpqK7VDha9uW3/M0u 43+IA0MTlcJ5KHSEQrWVyZ4dmNfYOYO2ittSWcGF/36V87I/uvm+bPBFTXwuIHQ6 O3+1XDuY0A+aRqSTaDT41xvOFvMbEAgzXe+U1wEX8zNe0ZSEzcc= =ylOJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7ADA12C3-756D-4F37-B43D-1A8598748450-- From nobody Thu Nov 23 10:05:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF701201F8; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:05:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g2zKCcpijuJ9; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:05:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BF34124D6C; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:05:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B8412008C; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 13:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64CD08068A; Thu, 23 Nov 2017 13:05:20 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Fred Baker cc: "dhcwg\@ietf.org" , "v6ops\@ietf.org" , "6man\@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7-RC3; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 18:05:22 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Fred Baker wrote: >> My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP >> (configuration) options in ND/RA. > On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that > carries any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if RAs > encompassed DHCP options. I think that this is mostly what Fred wants to define. Apparently he also wants to do stateful DHCPv6 things (such as PD), which I am much less enthusiastic about putting into RAs/NDs as they cease to be idempotent. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAloXDeAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUREwf9EEknMV1btlM5eXBxmPuH7oO98dxeRIeGXkAaLXfJBNfkgwD3wpIiSG/C 9h1hKQE/GUBRg/OVmngMJpk67t4Tk/fO5yJHa3EilhdJ17RFYx2A8YlPEcRFhISp pcFNYY6yGxhHJRup4VuyjEyVt6pjG1+1ETM8HE3+DrsixYKiWleNMYLnlXNh3+vv GSC9i0MNTF6FYP57PjmdGM4m354xvPE5/XMduFru/X2x4ssybXnvs83RT5MCs3tP xd41xSl4ZpbpbCDYe6IUu9coWtgaphAdDe6dhBgd5NCDheW8TdzANeVF75aIHf4h IwRdOyh7m6LNAmNxBqp98o5V/X9lVg== =kboT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sat Nov 25 07:27:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C10D120227; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 07:27:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151162366823.10104.6272287879474190688.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 07:27:48 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:27:48 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Sun Nov 26 18:36:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF64A1200F1 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:36:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sSD35jRgxW6W for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:36:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E516C1201F2 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:36:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=20633; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1511750198; x=1512959798; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=cojQ5ua1YogG8Q5FEG3O82r0NWs6AAkuokdAct4iLeY=; b=lGhSFE7fq7B/F/UNTIoY+npOF9auE9wH10Y9WC5eTKvQVRxVmfSenkcR l7y5WegX1sNQaD4P+N7V6HzHFqvy/X5OxiLYTdwk9RhDLlNRWvFn1B4yJ 7Gn4OxQ2GpX1n+fVKtpN4JfzwUpd88xPG2fdcIihwX1NO7AzBPjxsus3m 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D1AAD2eRta/51dJa1bGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJKRC5mbi6OGI8VmGqCEQoliXY/GAEBAQEBAQEBAWsdC4VNBj4?= =?us-ascii?q?gAUBAJgEEGwyJKmQQqBk6insBAQEBAQEEAQEBAQEBARwFgzqCB5F9BZkmiSACg?= =?us-ascii?q?XSFfI0Rgh+GDIssjHaJFwIRGQGBOQEfOYFQbxWCUgEBD4RUiXuBFAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.44,462,1505779200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="36640519" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 27 Nov 2017 02:36:29 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAR2aShr008621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:36:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 20:36:28 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 20:36:28 -0600 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Draft for Re-chartering Thread-Index: AdNnKHnFDJ0pfbDmQeqJKheqkwE8GA== Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:36:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.198] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c75fcb03185b49bab003dfa5e6a8f795XCHALN003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Draft for Re-chartering X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:36:41 -0000 --_000_c75fcb03185b49bab003dfa5e6a8f795XCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi: At IETF-100 in Singapore we discussed re-chartering the WG (see https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dhc-dhc-recharter/). The= re were a few minor comments regarding that proposed text and a revised tex= t based on those comments is below. Please comment on suggested changes/improvements. Begin Re-charter Text --> The Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group (DHC WG) has developed DHCP for automated allocation, configuration and management of IP addresses and TCP/IP protocol stack parameters. DHCPv4 is currently a Draft Standard and is documented in RFC 2131 and RFC 2132. DHCPv6 is currently a Proposed Standard and is being updated and the WG plans to advance the protocol to full standard. The DHC WG is responsible for defining DHCP protocol extensions. Definitions of new DHCP options that are delivered using standard mechanisms with documented semantics are not considered a protocol extension and thus are generally outside of scope for the DHC WG. Such options should be defined within their respective WGs and reviewed by DHCP experts in the Internet Area Directorate. However, if such options require protocol extensions or new semantics, the protocol extension work must be done in the DHC WG. Or, when no respective WG exists, the DHC WG may take on the option definitions work with approval from the responsible Area Director. The DHC WG has the following main objectives: 1. Develop documents that help explain operational considerations for the wider community if and as needed. 2. Assist other WGs and independent submissions in defining options (that follow RFC 7227 guidelines) and to assure DHCP operational considerations are properly documented. 3. Additional topics and any option definition work may only be added with approval from the responsible Area Director or by re-chartering. 4. Issue an updated version of the DHCPv6 base specification, and after an appropriate interval following publication, advance to full standard. <-- End Re-charter Text - Tomek & Bernie --_000_c75fcb03185b49bab003dfa5e6a8f795XCHALN003ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi:

 

At IETF-100 in Singapore we discussed re-chartering = the WG (see https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dhc-dhc-recha= rter/). There were a few minor comments regarding that proposed text an= d a revised text based on those comments is below.

 

Please comment on suggested changes/improvements.

 

Begin Re-charter Text -->

= The Dynamic Host Configuration Working Group (DHC WG) has developed DHCP

= for automated allocation, configuration and management of IP addresses=

= and TCP/IP protocol stack parameters. DHCPv4 is currently a Draft

= Standard and is documented in RFC 2131 and RFC 2132. DHCPv6 is currently

= a Proposed Standard and is being updated and the WG plans to advance the

= protocol to full standard.

=  

= The DHC WG is responsible for defining DHCP protocol extensions.

= Definitions of new DHCP options that are delivered using standard

= mechanisms with documented semantics are not considered a protocol

= extension and thus are generally outside of scope for the DHC WG. Such=

= options should be defined within their respective WGs and reviewed by<= /o:p>

= DHCP experts in the Internet Area Directorate. However, if such options

= require protocol extensions or new semantics, the protocol extension

= work must be done in the DHC WG. Or, when no respective WG exists, the=

= DHC WG may take on the option definitions work with approval from the<= /o:p>

= responsible Area Director.

=  

= The DHC WG has the following main objectives:

=  

= 1. Develop documents that help explain operational considerations for<= /o:p>

= the wider community if and as needed.

=  

= 2. Assist other WGs and independent submissions in defining options

= (that follow RFC 7227 guidelines) and to assure DHCP operational=

= considerations are properly documented.

=  

= 3. Additional topics and any option definition work may only be added<= /o:p>

= with approval from the responsible Area Director or by re-chartering.<= /o:p>

=  

= 4. Issue an updated version of the DHCPv6 base specification, and after

= an appropriate interval following publication, advance to full standard.

<-- End Re-charter Text

 

-     &= nbsp;    Tomek & Bernie

--_000_c75fcb03185b49bab003dfa5e6a8f795XCHALN003ciscocom_-- From nobody Sun Nov 26 18:47:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA7F1241F5; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:47:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SGmV9zv2iznP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:47:17 -0800 (PST) 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"draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options@ietf.org" CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-00 Thread-Index: AQHTXbTEyUXBCD4cGkuYzfAHStxXcaMnl7pQ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:47:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0DCB7C93-66C3-4DB6-A19C-46AA333AB9A6@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0DCB7C93-66C3-4DB6-A19C-46AA333AB9A6@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.198] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ab28405829754180b930db26208e7ea6XCHALN003ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Comments on draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-lwm2m-bootstrap-options-00 X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 02:47:19 -0000 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wIpzy-m9KGxs; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:20:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 213471286B1; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:20:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vARDJMcf026239; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:20:24 -0500 Received: from alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp6.sbc.com [144.160.229.23]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2egjx9rsvq-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:20:24 -0500 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vARDKNDj018396; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:20:23 -0500 Received: from alpi132.aldc.att.com (alpi132.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.2]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vARDKEIc018320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:20:16 -0500 Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.itservices.sbc.com [130.8.218.154]) by alpi132.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:19:55 GMT Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.227]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.154]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:19:54 -0500 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: Fred Baker , Michael Richardson CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAkcdkAADO+44AADW0NAAAPizUAANmFatA= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:19:54 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.217.252] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-11-27_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1711270184 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:20:30 -0000 > > My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP > > (configuration) options in ND/RA. >=20 > On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that ca= rries > any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if RAs encompassed > DHCP options. Thus forcing either routers or hosts (or both) to support two distinct mech= anisms to do the same thing if there is to be any hope of interoperability.= And if the host supports both, then it also needs to implement code for wh= ich wins when both are present and the options provided have conflicting in= fo. If you really want DHCPv6 options in RAs for closed ecosystem use cases, in= clude a huge caveat that routers are not required to support both mechanism= s -- routers are only required to do DHCPv6. Any host that only implements = receipt of DHCPv6 options via RA must not expect to operate in an open ecos= ystem. Put the burden on the hosts.=20 Barbara From nobody Mon Nov 27 09:30:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE0B128854; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:30:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A6Pcp5-GpXwb; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F19F126557; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vARHUPb9004287; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:30:25 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.221]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vARHUKLa003882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:30:20 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdd::8988:efdd) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:30:19 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:30:19 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Fred Baker , Michael Richardson CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAkcdkAADO+44AAEoFNVADsr44Q Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:30:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:30:28 -0000 Hi Fred, > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 4:19 PM > To: Michael Richardson > Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified = function >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Michael Richardson = wrote: > > > > My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP > > (configuration) options in ND/RA. >=20 > On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that ca= rries any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if > RAs encompassed DHCP options. Yes, that is what the draft says. The client's DHCPv6 request messages are included in RS options, and the server's DHCPv6 reply messages are included in RA options. A unified IPv6 ND/DHCPv6 autoconfiguration service. As near as I can tell, everyone wants prefix delegation which is by nature a stateful service. Some seem to be questioning DHCPv6 as the correct architecture for the stateful service, but if not DHCPv6 then there would need to be a new prefix delegation architecture - perhaps a design from scratch. But, when all is said and done, it would end up looking very much like DHCPv6. Thanks - Fred=20 From nobody Mon Nov 27 15:07:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30BC127735; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:07:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wryXlkIsDVYX; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x232.google.com (mail-pl0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAA6A129418; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 62so9415272plc.7; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:06:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KN56Uo02hyqoy7mK57VNlb9KSTcib0rnDbdDpRsYXi0=; b=S29vQqaDaksWPkiemhFbezQ76pK7zvpilp1EshSkk5YXXWUD9QoaXPJaZPrl9KihlJ e7zAVnIjx13oBN52AINeDYdD/XZQV923uuWI2ZztfjagcEKMtiwd1icjVHK22edUL71M kXKkhIbzt2F3inLgO2cPU0rcXPMFF/NT6nG7wXgOIsDXyikbEh466ZrlKoAcTEv0TkCs BfYX6DDvBGMxSp6FB0vdbgRJixym+X11T8jZK7hqS8GI3r2BQ0obd4Jp1lB8O6AXdQUt DJObLTYaGvP+uXrvGtIGN5NhxcSoY6nsk7pgeGswCdWkpcjt8m+1l/LtNOfnA0PS8FTh kuqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KN56Uo02hyqoy7mK57VNlb9KSTcib0rnDbdDpRsYXi0=; b=KcSVU+pEQFnY3npBSLzblELVV3f8PCvk2f//fHXdemEuATAjbheL9SHHO9AujaLAeV dMJxYHRji3bkkJ/7+fieZkudcqU1wiksMQIJvLxyR6ieej5VKNmubPhJBdo51UG+8q2t K0KsIa0w03JSU7PQxNdHbkhRrTXwQ/1tfcUN6FZPP/FYwwUbpyI+YD6gKlbJMqe0Tmz0 /1wPfvb0P7FJUZ5ZT2eHUNlLN1E+fr9JIK+FBsPhA/vt8vMrfSoKnJy5fKBYOPGmfmg7 EVLamUCofH9hcCdHiDgojKwYO0CGWWLCBfBBFHTNiIKneSpfJVlI+UK3BJkjyMw3wy3N qOdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6y9xDeAw7YpQBHfeWgz0GZ6nF/xke9r3Ze2R+Xzbe5DlPB9r+E Dq5JUA34D21OVMNF/f7vDD1MJQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZCzaje/gkmtqxmNqBU5QmW/rKQXMt6yJA0yX806ZExQ2ui/HoLv0oJ6VzHfuCDau0V4ADMmQ== X-Received: by 10.84.248.77 with SMTP id e13mr40917370pln.200.1511824015875; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.216.38.112] (sc-cs-567-laptop.uoa.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.38.112]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k130sm17438416pfc.100.2017.11.27.15.06.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:06:55 -0800 (PST) To: "STARK, BARBARA H" , Fred Baker , Michael Richardson Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <8a5feb3a-d18e-1773-0539-3da22e582c70@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:06:53 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 23:07:10 -0000 On 28/11/2017 02:19, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >>> My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP >>> (configuration) options in ND/RA. >> >> On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that carries >> any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if RAs encompassed >> DHCP options. > > Thus forcing either routers or hosts (or both) to support two distinct mechanisms to do the same thing if there is to be any hope of interoperability. Yes and no. Let's consider a host that needs a particular piece of information. As an example, consider the address of the next-hop router for a given prefix. There are three separate parts to this: 1. Receiving some sort of message containing an appropriate option. 2. Decoding the option 3. Storing the result. The important one is #3. The mechanism for storing the result is unavoidable, and stateful, whatever the delivery protocol and encoding. In the real world, most hosts today have several versions of #1 in their code: RA, DHCP, RADIUS come to mind. (What they enable is another matter.) So where's the duplication? It seems to be in the decoding step. With a little software engineering, there could be a single decoder that handles all the possible formats, and doesn't care which protocol delivered it. > And if the host supports both, then it also needs to implement code for which wins when both are present and the options provided have conflicting info. I suspect that is needed anyway, in the general case. > If you really want DHCPv6 options in RAs for closed ecosystem use cases, include a huge caveat that routers are not required to support both mechanisms -- routers are only required to do DHCPv6. Yes, if an option is primarily defined for DHCP, that makes sense. > Any host that only implements receipt of DHCPv6 options via RA must not expect to operate in an open ecosystem. Put the burden on the hosts. Probably. Unless this thing becomes popular. Brian From nobody Mon Nov 27 15:59:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D68512940B; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:59:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SZuyifAf7aCQ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x230.google.com (mail-pl0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31CB8124207; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x230.google.com with SMTP id z3so9493446plh.9; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:59:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jtrXwChv3NuxsISHjCuOzlOt3Stdr6flHT+kD6sXXgY=; b=U7V33F4OHjROxm/339qL2qyPQwH3JUUhimSc8f6WfX+xb8bSOuzKXOPzEBuNRFQHhR Ttvkr+aDwWb+TNtanCiMx1nZuwFYQEwciGrHfKUF/JPJMhLQiWjWWh+QZTnPOdFW9jeU CtNgKGxH/ak0hzeQgNsGG+8v+KMNT1gtkRokSK3SCoyBui25PNIzE/nB+jS5+h/7lcRk M8CX4JOK+FKij3Q/sJPi9irH58ccyx2pTxFx0Q59icPOU9EMc3U5csjWLo6/j9Ldr+ye 2+6CIk+ID8FGF55mSlqcDApUZTxPxithMZyVdODXz3WOAAUzaBQB8ip9bz3NQ5JnyrlM EGSA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jtrXwChv3NuxsISHjCuOzlOt3Stdr6flHT+kD6sXXgY=; b=S6DMuqZU766mvzpjVUWjb91ptOwYNz2HqfGg/Jy2evPhPF8LSp1B0GjZNvhLwn3brt NwEoVUB+8qLxSRUichnurmg7C+GGg82BHxpmDYvyMF2n8XQBjAtmgcme5/VFFcLYvpKn 9/O/gkSpsJkUB6Ro+axNCoSxckeQD8lDzIdpCPSo8wO/Sd4uZDWUcrECSbnE3juTL0E2 k7OuFXOeFxEziKitHV+BBhJSjHfYATC3BWdFw3WY9GmeXKSqjMibZJcX21EYc7C0fTmC moFM1YwN0OH54CT80RbUHyWRkQAvvBHW/ngNByKw7TX0U+RsYTPqwCSjXL/KFKPsg3ic HUYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6SGRzS0uOtayxYNKKEKQxdoWYk4BTXmvjZZvlVfHFJRESWpHw/ MHI3NWbaZb1muhbiPA85cPNxow== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbR7rStqiXtxLE4CWM6wMUDDk4g8y/qguCgAQirzCh9XZRlGCoPmFrlbc97bdqcGql5r6uc8Q== X-Received: by 10.159.218.73 with SMTP id x9mr37763235plv.92.1511827154569; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.216.38.112] (sc-cs-567-laptop.uoa.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.38.112]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q83sm17610925pfk.68.2017.11.27.15.59.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:59:13 -0800 (PST) To: Michael Richardson , Fred Baker Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <26398.1511460320@obiwan.sandelman.ca> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <26ad77cc-c61c-52b0-201d-464f5b771368@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:59:12 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <26398.1511460320@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 23:59:17 -0000 On 24/11/2017 07:05, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Fred Baker wrote: > >> My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP > >> (configuration) options in ND/RA. > > > On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that > > carries any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if RAs > > encompassed DHCP options. > > I think that this is mostly what Fred wants to define. > > Apparently he also wants to do stateful DHCPv6 things (such as PD), which I > am much less enthusiastic about putting into RAs/NDs as they cease to be > idempotent. I think a key sentence in the draft is this: "The IPv6 ND function then acts as a Lightweight DHCPv6 Relay Agent (LDRA) [RFC6221] to forward the message to the DHCPv6 relay or server function on-board the router." If it's clear that ND is serving only as a lightweight relay, doesn't your concern go away? As far as I can see, lightweight relays are stateless. Brian From nobody Mon Nov 27 21:22:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C33124C27 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:22:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hj8xK9xAvdI6 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-x230.google.com (mail-yw0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8978C126B7F for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yw0-x230.google.com with SMTP id x20so12814773ywg.4 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:22:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=F4JbUxgVK5DiwbrmUMAH++GyHjlmYhDr8uHGeNL611E=; b=IxZDwrJw6AiJ62cYLqmwIMSM81J2//OdBM/2iZt6Vk7zmqMlP4hPSW+IJASWT+gJXI x5QRH75jnshu7QTOaoz8qnhij00QsEDdsLd7DuS/4JRpmp/CYp3GUFgSJNqL0ppCnEku 3/jwDH1taH/VCVEbCURrUa2VnYbPxCPDlfmztuv2MDL/YJT4riUHoiuBj3Ei0HQofO6J VD64x6uFohRGh57ZV3OlqiPhYy96u5EEo8d0yvEvtGJXfzag2H1Ofo3amuFmwT7dk6eH ZjZgQ+TCSoOVqry98Yab17SZC7v195wxx2k74VjsBG8s2ikHJEXdsVRNqBsICvrGruiH GZtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=F4JbUxgVK5DiwbrmUMAH++GyHjlmYhDr8uHGeNL611E=; b=llq7BJbeSpKBwM/RutA2VPoz9N15IZs3AMh1jEMlRW/kAaQBM6zhK7XQQqjDWTo6Yf TFb2wgSsG7BPpCD/1Z9SrW19sohT9jY9AmUvi5o88BLpwMHQ4atZytRvke0t23qfKyxQ yMw5rYs6kLwoTOk3HjK7X6wqgfZODrjPMgXyyKEnYKYYP+NLfACfFHxg4wpH7Bz5EsHq pEsy4+5gGTCsG4bdy/qLUBPZez1eJ/sYaQcBcxJc2nVEqpnCoTaBeInI0gc0Em6+SqAS 99nYUp7hNRFLkZ7leZUXxZhHW44ZWCG/xoGAq38ISoLmYgzACwyR0xJcysDqPOsjCxrj 2n6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7PR/7k4Rr+m6pbU+grhrunyup4WA/I5lRQsx2Mbp5cBut96hgz 6QxrWsHOXSKsubfi0DOmW/LM78s4tE+UgNw2AIil3w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbo/78We1GsJ3/+no0Gqso04bjEKzQD3zqTjlmwFl7XjIRL+sRF+3+KfRnwCs9kd6bCm4aWo6+/3CIrcJSIBIY= X-Received: by 10.13.232.140 with SMTP id r134mr27137246ywe.344.1511846539466; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:22:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.4.194 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:21:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8a5feb3a-d18e-1773-0539-3da22e582c70@gmail.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8a5feb3a-d18e-1773-0539-3da22e582c70@gmail.com> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:21:58 +0900 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: "STARK, BARBARA H" , Fred Baker , Michael Richardson , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c086fbaf12236055f0433fe" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:22:23 -0000 --94eb2c086fbaf12236055f0433fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes and no. Let's consider a host that needs a particular piece of > information. As an example, consider the address of the next-hop router > for a given prefix. There are three separate parts to this: > > 1. Receiving some sort of message containing an appropriate option. > 2. Decoding the option > 3. Storing the result. > [...] > You can't really separate these steps because the protocols that deliver configuration information have different semantics. For example, DHCPv6 is poll-based and requires explicit renewal, but RAs are push-based. --94eb2c086fbaf12236055f0433fe Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpente= r@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes and= no. Let's consider a host that needs a particular piece of
information. As an example, consider the address of the next-hop router
for a given prefix. There are three separate parts to this:

1. Receiving some sort of message containing an appropriate option.
2. Decoding the option
3. Storing the result.
[...]

You can't really separate these steps = because the protocols that deliver configuration information have different= semantics. For example, DHCPv6 is poll-based and requires explicit renewal= , but RAs are push-based.
--94eb2c086fbaf12236055f0433fe-- From nobody Tue Nov 28 09:02:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8390126DED; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:02:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L3fBUk-qPpPa; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBD08128B8D; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vASH2Ise021448; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:02:19 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.221]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vASH2HjG021437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:02:17 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdd::8988:efdd) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:02:17 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:02:17 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "STARK, BARBARA H" , Fred Baker , Michael Richardson CC: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAkcdkAADO+44AAEoFNVAD1MWEAACiUpcA= Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:02:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:02:21 -0000 Hi, if there is some concern about backwards compatibility and accepting configuration information from multiple sources the scenario is as follows: - the host MAY include a DHCPv6 Request option in its RS message - routers that do not recognize the DHCPv6 Request option, or that do not implement a DHCPv6 relay or server, ignore the option and return an RA with no DHCPv6 option and with M/O bits set as normal - routers that recognize the DHCPv6 Request option and that implement a DHCPv6 relay or server process the DHCPv6 Request then include a DHCPv6 Reply option in unicast RAs that they send back to the host - the host processes the RA message and also processes the DHCPv6 Reply while accepting the union of the configuration information provided by both IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 Note that there will never be a time that a router includes a DHCPv6 Reply option in its RA message unless the host first included a DHCPv6 Request option in its RS. And, even if it did, hosts that do not recognize the opti= on will simply ignore it and process the rest of the RA message as normal. The approach is therefore fully backwards compatible and provides the best combination of both IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 autoconfiguration. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: dhcwg [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of STARK, BARBARA H > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 5:20 AM > To: Fred Baker ; Michael Richardson > Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, = unified function >=20 > > > My understanding is that Fred Templin essentially wants to carry DHCP > > > (configuration) options in ND/RA. > > > > On thing that I have never understood is the lack of an RA option that = carries > > any DHCPv6 option. This entire silly debate would end if RAs encompasse= d > > DHCP options. >=20 > Thus forcing either routers or hosts (or both) to support two distinct me= chanisms to do the same thing if there is to be any hope of > interoperability. And if the host supports both, then it also needs to im= plement code for which wins when both are present and the > options provided have conflicting info. > If you really want DHCPv6 options in RAs for closed ecosystem use cases, = include a huge caveat that routers are not required to > support both mechanisms -- routers are only required to do DHCPv6. Any ho= st that only implements receipt of DHCPv6 options via RA > must not expect to operate in an open ecosystem. Put the burden on the ho= sts. > Barbara >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg From nobody Tue Nov 28 09:09:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1218C128AFE; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:09:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kIJ1Vej7IMtZ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 409DF1289B5; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id vASH8tXE057433; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:08:55 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.172]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id vASH8okO057012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 10:08:50 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-09.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efac::8988:efac) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:08:49 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:08:49 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Lorenzo Colitti , Brian E Carpenter CC: "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgAkcdkAADO+44ABGI3TgAAYdG1w Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:08:49 +0000 Message-ID: <32546f10ef9a4859a3a61163c8e82429@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8a5feb3a-d18e-1773-0539-3da22e582c70@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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([2406:e007:6f17:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c191sm57951940pfg.24.2017.11.28.11.29.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:29:18 -0800 (PST) To: Lorenzo Colitti Cc: "STARK, BARBARA H" , Fred Baker , Michael Richardson , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "v6ops@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> References: <9debb1672e3d4f0d89d672d64e0fe579@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4e01cd6cc5234daca2f7be55b8cc28b0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <27327.1511369630@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DCC2BF8@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8a5feb3a-d18e-1773-0539-3da22e582c70@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <2611432c-ac26-105c-927e-3c4fd4309c2e@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:29:18 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:29:24 -0000 On 28/11/2017 18:21, Lorenzo Colitti wrote: > On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Brian E Carpenter < > brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes and no. Let's consider a host that needs a particular piece of >> information. As an example, consider the address of the next-hop router >> for a given prefix. There are three separate parts to this: >> >> 1. Receiving some sort of message containing an appropriate option. >> 2. Decoding the option >> 3. Storing the result. >> [...] >> > > You can't really separate these steps because the protocols that deliver > configuration information have different semantics. For example, DHCPv6 is > poll-based and requires explicit renewal, but RAs are push-based. I think those are mechanical details. RAs expire & the host waits for renewal; a DHCP host solicits renewal; but from a bird's eye view that is a hidden distinction. Brian From nobody Tue Nov 28 13:09:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E18124205; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:09:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151190335240.12499.12517100108882947549.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:09:12 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:09:12 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Please have a look at the Gen-ART review, although I disagree with the reviewer's suggestion about replacing the reference to RFC 2119 with one to RFC 8174. If there is a desire to make usage of normative keywords clearer in this document, I would suggest replacing the two occurrences of lowercase "must" with "needs to." From nobody Tue Nov 28 17:30:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CBB126DFE; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:30:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151191903274.8045.11660427093374661131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:30:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:30:33 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your time on this document. I have one minor correction and two questions. The introduction says: "...for IPv6 the server port is (546) and the client port is (547)." I believe this is backwards. Section 5.2 says: If this option is included to indicate only the local non-DHCP UDP port usage and there is no downstream relay agent's non-DHCP UDP port usage, the field Downstream Source Port field MUST be set to zero. Was the use of length=0 considered rather that port=0 here? The reason I ask is that UDP port 0 is *reserved*, but not technically *invalid*, and the use of "length=0" would distinguish between the flag usage and the port usage while not precluding the valid (if admittedly rare) use of port=0. Finally, I have a question about DHCPv6 relay agent chains that arose in reading the document. The example section actually gives a pretty good jumping off point to ask the question, so I'll quote an excerpt here: Similar to the above example, now assume that Relay2 uses the UDP source port of 2000 instead of 547 as in the diagram. The Relay3 device needs to support this DHCP extension and it will set 2000 in its "Downstream Source Port" field of the option in the Relay-forward message. When DHCP server sends the DHCP Relay-reply to Relay3, Relay3 finds its own relay option has this "Downstream Source Port" with the value of 2000. Relay3 will use this UDP port when sending the Relay-reply message to Relay2. If we were to continue this paragraph all the way back to Relay1, it's not clear how Relay2 would know to use port 1000 when sending its Relay-reply message to Relay1. Does this mechanism have a limitation that only one Relay Agent in the forwarding chain is allowed to use a Non-DHCP UDP Port? From nobody Tue Nov 28 18:00:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1611128CFF; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:00:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tyR5cuEz8VMB; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) 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(naiming)" To: Adam Roach CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , Tomek Mrugalski , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaLGo/6Bd90PL80mKNi7ouvGrsqMq/sWA Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:00:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5E426AD9-AB42-4C89-93F0-4495A4164C0D@cisco.com> References: <151191903274.8045.11660427093374661131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151191903274.8045.11660427093374661131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0C3D718869BF5E46A57FA7772D96D7C3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: 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aW9uIGlzIGluY2x1ZGVkLCBhbmQgaXQgZ2V0cyB0aGUgMTAwMCBwb3J0IG51bWJlciB0byB1c2Uu DQp0aGlzIGlzIG5vIGRpZmZlcmVudCB3aGVuIFJlbGF5MiBpdHNlbGYgZG9lcyBub3QgdXNlIGEg Tm9uLURIQ1AgcG9ydC4NCg0KdGhhbmtzLg0KLSBOYWltaW5nDQoNCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Nov 28 18:30:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07A91200C5; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:30:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151192262279.8070.6009838746018958846@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:30:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08.txt X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:30:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Generalized UDP Source Port for DHCP Relay Authors : Naiming Shen Enke Chen Filename : draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2017-11-28 Abstract: This document proposes an extension to the DHCP protocols that allows a relay agent to use any available source port for upstream communications, and to include a DHCP option that can be used to statelessly route responses back to the appropriate source port on downstream communications. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 28 18:36:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF3C126DCA for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:35:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wOUDw0au-VK1 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 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Nov 2017 20:35:55 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: dhcwg Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08.txt Thread-Index: AQHTaLoG7FC9BkpXyUevlKT8JVTs3KMrCK8A Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:35:55 +0000 Message-ID: <40B9E541-2EB2-4726-A88C-8C14B4A90985@cisco.com> References: <151192262279.8070.6009838746018958846@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151192262279.8070.6009838746018958846@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <906E4556F8236549886189F2C9511CA3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08.txt X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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i="5.44,470,1505779200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="37158372" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 29 Nov 2017 02:47:22 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAT2lMZB003996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:47:22 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:47:21 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:47:21 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Adam Roach CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , Tomek Mrugalski , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaLGo/6Bd90PL80mKNi7ouvGrsqMq/sWAgAANLQA= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:47:21 +0000 Message-ID: <23744FF5-C543-4157-AD9E-574F98F8D65D@cisco.com> References: <151191903274.8045.11660427093374661131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5E426AD9-AB42-4C89-93F0-4495A4164C0D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5E426AD9-AB42-4C89-93F0-4495A4164C0D@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.175] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_23744FF5C5434157AD9E574F98F8D65Dciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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aW1pbmc8L3NwYW4+PC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4N CjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_23744FF5C5434157AD9E574F98F8D65Dciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 11:48:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97E11289B5; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:48:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8FPxUx_sHWfP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F74D129353; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:48:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from Svantevit.local (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vATJmNYR031433 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:48:24 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Svantevit.local To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" Cc: "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , Tomek Mrugalski , The IESG , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" References: <151191903274.8045.11660427093374661131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5E426AD9-AB42-4C89-93F0-4495A4164C0D@cisco.com> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <9b93c499-5c18-2474-415a-1303d9625252@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:48:18 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5E426AD9-AB42-4C89-93F0-4495A4164C0D@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:48:50 -0000 Naiming -- Thanks for your quick reply. I had to do a bit more reading about DHCP relay behavior to understand your response to my third point, but it all seems to make sense now. I appreciate your taking the time to clarify. It might be helpful to extend the final paragraph in the examples section to include getting the Relay-reply all the way back to Relay1. Your answers for the other two points seem reasonable. Thanks! /a On 11/28/17 8:00 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) wrote: > Hi Adam, > > Thanks for the comments, replies inline … > >> On Nov 28, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Adam Roach wrote: >> >> Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: No Objection >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Thanks for your time on this document. I have one minor correction and two >> questions. >> >> The introduction says: "...for IPv6 the server port is (546) and the client >> port is (547)." I believe this is backwards. >> > Yes. Will fix. > >> Section 5.2 says: >> >> If this option is included to >> indicate only the local non-DHCP UDP port usage and there is no >> downstream relay agent's non-DHCP UDP port usage, the field >> Downstream Source Port field MUST be set to zero. >> >> Was the use of length=0 considered rather that port=0 here? The reason I ask is >> that UDP port 0 is *reserved*, but not technically *invalid*, and the use of >> "length=0" would distinguish between the flag usage and the port usage while >> not precluding the valid (if admittedly rare) use of port=0. >> > Although it’s valid, but should not be used. Or here this draft saying an > alternative relay-port is a non-zero number. Will mention that. > >> Finally, I have a question about DHCPv6 relay agent chains that arose in >> reading the document. The example section actually gives a pretty good jumping >> off point to ask the question, so I'll quote an excerpt here: >> >> Similar to the above example, now assume that Relay2 uses the UDP >> source port of 2000 instead of 547 as in the diagram. The Relay3 >> device needs to support this DHCP extension and it will set 2000 in >> its "Downstream Source Port" field of the option in the Relay-forward >> message. When DHCP server sends the DHCP Relay-reply to Relay3, >> Relay3 finds its own relay option has this "Downstream Source Port" >> with the value of 2000. Relay3 will use this UDP port when sending >> the Relay-reply message to Relay2. >> >> If we were to continue this paragraph all the way back to Relay1, it's not >> clear how Relay2 would know to use port 1000 when sending its Relay-reply >> message to Relay1. Does this mechanism have a limitation that only one Relay >> Agent in the forwarding chain is allowed to use a Non-DHCP UDP Port? >> > No, there is no limitation on how many relay-agents in the chain to use the Non-DHCP > UDP port. > > The rule is that, a relay-agent needs to use this relay-port option either > this agent itself uses a Non-DHCP port, or it’s downstream agent uses > a Non-DHCP port. > > So, in the above example quoted, > - Relay1 will include the relay-port option in its relay-forward message > - Relay2 will include the relay-port option (also set the downstream port to 1000) in > ins relay-forward message > > when the relay-relay message comes to Relay2, it checks it’s own > relay-port option is included, and it gets the 1000 port number to use. > this is no different when Relay2 itself does not use a Non-DHCP port. > > thanks. > - Naiming > From nobody Wed Nov 29 12:00:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com 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X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,339,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="37541832" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 29 Nov 2017 20:00:29 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (xch-aln-002.cisco.com [173.36.7.12]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vATK0SrF001916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:00:28 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:00:28 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:00:28 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Adam Roach CC: "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , Tomek Mrugalski , The IESG , "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaUsA/6Bd90PL80mKNi7ouvGrsqMsK2QA Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:00:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151191903274.8045.11660427093374661131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5E426AD9-AB42-4C89-93F0-4495A4164C0D@cisco.com> <9b93c499-5c18-2474-415a-1303d9625252@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <9b93c499-5c18-2474-415a-1303d9625252@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.118] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9A95C3A4E712CC4E828734A900A5C3CE@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Adam Roach's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D0D120227; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:08:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:08:12 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:08:13 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (I want to "discuss" the following DISCUSS point. If the answer is that this is by design, and the working group thinks that the operational aspects are reasonable, then I will clear.) This extension places normative requirements on any upstream server or relay, which may or may not implement this spec. It further appears that if you try to use this extension without that support, things will break. That seems to require at least an update to the DCHP and DCHPv6 RFCs[1], and some method of discovery or fallback would be helpful. Section 5.4 discusses this a little bit, but I think it needs to talk about what to do when things fail. "Turn off the feature if you don't get DHCP responses" doesn't seem satisfying. [1] I see 3.1 and 3.2 make changes to 2131 and 3315, so it seems an "UPDATES... " tag is needed one way or another. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -1, last paragraph: It seems like the 2119 keywords here would be better placed in the later sections about relay and server behavior. I suggest moving them there, and making the introductory language non-normative. - 3.1 and 3.2: I am surprised not to see 2119 keywords in the language added to 2131 and 3315: -8: This spec adds the ability to direct dhcp responses to non-standard ports. If the working group believes that does not affect the security considerations, please describe the rational. (I'm not saying that I think there's a problem, but I think the burden is on the working group to explain why they think there is not.) From nobody Wed Nov 29 13:19:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7F0127698 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:19:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0RpJYBNqk9QV for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:19:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x231.google.com (mail-qt0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F4BD126C83 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:19:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x231.google.com with SMTP id r39so6191915qtr.13 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:19:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=TrA/PuwGUAU1XkEB6J5paPXITXVhtvIomGw2DmmKE2E=; b=um+6s1K8XRNpuPaJwFPcdyVvgdypKBQnBIkC5aeqC7lsM9JAfvw5jXY2hszQtJ5UNG 51mZZIANpg95eH0i7y/jKHNXv/1k5z1MbuCNbR0U77idVIQSeS5ZPaGhzxbzHYGUjR9A rBcWHbfqGPwE3JwkFjQwfCVJT+Koy+JWEYmQtHOBvx22z7pLu65jJovuR4hpw+SI0BWy e8xmr5QPzMoD1FshuQPXe/FTP0YFlfcVlvMi+OVNr2XVLENMXZ3qc9eUTDwIgQwfM3yK UNXJ0/NAwGP5L59ivXZrnDbydjL5axoInDov7fYqWkeFE4ubxL2Opooem0I2ued8XMl9 Oq9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=TrA/PuwGUAU1XkEB6J5paPXITXVhtvIomGw2DmmKE2E=; b=IkmHHq5Po/HmH2rhTxFVxuEXjOgtETXl7ASRVRzEADqazyKOu/KrhtX6MWmfcJXQ+b E1BkkNs/kUZ41WjXNxhahvzZXw4SDK8ngOBmREyWJOgC6SQ/j8Ga7j/YNVHneApAiA8d dFHd5vdtyHFYLtaJfeyw2InAz6gLpTO6eNIQQqGU4GWvelhrz5TTSDeq/u1ZGF5GybqU 6kvZwEpoNdp9B6TS9pV3124/6r9lIk0G40dHNRvPaAAJe45KdUWEX+jGDAk+Vz8pqo1i 8Sb8tb7wlsYIq/kK3Sts+pU8bsFDTZnXle1sA6ZWAai0xmobwKjC9riovj5b32IEBmzE xrMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mK3dxSr6zdW9LEqtWR11sJpxviBhbc4xyK/fkPKN5xPcGZTHBvl tS+GJ5SzdbY5sqLSSGRzxSS0OA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaJDSyQ9IgiWBBaUYvJLA2XT73tmv+WDM1Ht/WxWpiVyJ0M5O58xMoS99T9153v1bJUWgfS+A== X-Received: by 10.200.17.10 with SMTP id c10mr354573qtj.301.1511990345235; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from cavall.lan (c-24-60-163-103.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u123sm1835095qkd.71.2017.11.29.13.19.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:19:04 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) From: Ted Lemon In-Reply-To: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:19:03 -0500 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, dhc-chairs@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:19:08 -0000 Ben, the idea is that this is a very targeted approach for SDNs, not = something that makes sense as a general update to the DHCP base = specifications. Since relays and servers are generally within the same = administrative domain, there is little danger of actual interop = issues=E2=80=94the operator is going to be customizing these settings = very deliberately. We also tend to assume that the DHCP server is = pretty easy to update compared to relays or clients, so the fact that an = updated relay might not work with a non-updated server isn't a major = issue. This isn't like TLS 1.3 where the server and the middleboxes = are operated by agencies unknown to each other. From nobody Wed Nov 29 16:10:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178921286B1; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:10:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DWdAkxeEpDYf; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E12A112773A; 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30 Nov 2017 00:10:19 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAU0AJms031849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:10:19 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:10:19 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:10:19 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ben Campbell CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" , Ted Lemon Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaVYtuZUuArhG2US4SOjv69UZUKMsQUWAgAAv14A= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:10:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.118] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <884C3E12115DBC45A3B20BCAB55190F2@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:10:22 -0000 DQpIaSBCZW4sDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldy4NCg0KSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIFRlZOKA mXMgY29tbWVudCBvbiB0aGlzLiBUaGlzIGlzIHRhcmdldGVkIG1haW5seSBpbiBhIHNpbmdsZSBh ZG1pbiBkb21haW4uDQpJZiBhbiBvcGVyYXRvciB3YW50cyB0byB0dXJuIG9uIHRoaXMgZmVhdHVy ZSBvbiBhIHJlbGF5KHMpLCBoZS9zaGUgY2FuIGZpbmQgb3V0IGlmIHRoZQ0Kc2VydmVyIG9yIHVw c3RyZWFtIHJlbGF5IHN1cHBvcnRzIHRoaXMgb3Igbm90LCBhbmQgaXTigJlzIGVhc3kgdG8gZGlz YWJsZSB0aGlzIGZlYXR1cmUNCmlmIGl0IGRvZXMgbm90IHdvcmsgKGNvdWxkIGFsc28gYmUgYnVn cyBpbiBzb2Z0d2FyZSkuDQoNCkFsc28sIHRoZSBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBmZWF0dXJl IGlzIG9uIHRoZSByZWxheSwgdGhlIHVwc3RyZWFtIHJlbGF5cyBhbmQNCnNlcnZlciBhcyBsb25n IGFzIGhhcyB0aGUgc29mdHdhcmUgdXBncmFkZWQsIHRoZXkgZG9u4oCZdCBuZWVkIGNvbmZpZ3Vy YXRpb24uIFRoaXMNCmlzIHNpbWlsYXIgdG8gb3RoZXIgREhDUCByZWxheSBvcHRpb25zLCBmb3Ig ZXhhbXBsZSwgdGhlIOKAmEFnZW50IENpcnVjaXQgSUTigJkgb3INCnRoZSDigJlTdWJzY3JpYmVy LUlE4oCdIHN1Yi1vcHRpb24sIHdoaWNoIGRvZXMgbm90IHJlcXVpcmUgcmVsYXkgZG8gZGlzY292 ZXJ5IHRvIGZpbmQNCm91dCBpZiBzZXJ2ZXIgc3VwcG9ydHMgdGhhdCBvciBub3QsIGFuZCBhcyBz b29uIGFzIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgaGFzIHRoZSB1cGRhdGVkIHNvZnR3YXJlLA0KaXQgd291bGQgYXV0 b21hdGljYWxseSBzdXBwb3J0cyB0aGlzLg0KDQpGb3IgdGhlIG90aGVyICJVUERBVEVTLi7igJ0g dGFnLiBJ4oCZbSBxdW90aW5nIEJlcm5pZeKAmXMgY29tbWVudCBpbiBhbm90aGVyIHRocmVhZDoN Cg0KCSJXZeKAmXZlIGFscmVhZHkgaGFkIHRoaXMgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhbmQgZGViYXRlLiBJdCBv bmx5IFVQREFURVMgaWYgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8NCgl1c2UgdGhpcyBuZXcgY2FwYWJpbGl0aWVzLCB3 ZSBkb27igJl0IGhhdmUgYSBmbGFnIGZvciB0aGF0LiBVUERBVEVTIHVzdWFsbHkgaW1wbGllcw0K CXRoYXQgeW91IG11c3QgZG8gdGhhdC4iDQoNCg0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLA0KLSBOYWltaW5nDQoN Cj4gT24gTm92IDI5LCAyMDE3LCBhdCAxOjE5IFBNLCBUZWQgTGVtb24gPG1lbGxvbkBmdWd1ZS5j b20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gQmVuLCB0aGUgaWRlYSBpcyB0aGF0IHRoaXMgaXMgYSB2ZXJ5IHRh cmdldGVkIGFwcHJvYWNoIGZvciBTRE5zLCBub3Qgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRoYXQgbWFrZXMgc2Vuc2Ug YXMgYSBnZW5lcmFsIHVwZGF0ZSB0byB0aGUgREhDUCBiYXNlIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25zLiAgIFNp bmNlIHJlbGF5cyBhbmQgc2VydmVycyBhcmUgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBhZG1p bmlzdHJhdGl2ZSBkb21haW4sIHRoZXJlIGlzIGxpdHRsZSBkYW5nZXIgb2YgYWN0dWFsIGludGVy b3AgaXNzdWVz4oCUdGhlIG9wZXJhdG9yIGlzIGdvaW5nIHRvIGJlIGN1c3RvbWl6aW5nIHRoZXNl IHNldHRpbmdzIHZlcnkgZGVsaWJlcmF0ZWx5LiAgIFdlIGFsc28gdGVuZCB0byBhc3N1bWUgdGhh dCB0aGUgREhDUCBzZXJ2ZXIgaXMgcHJldHR5IGVhc3kgdG8gdXBkYXRlIGNvbXBhcmVkIHRvIHJl bGF5cyBvciBjbGllbnRzLCBzbyB0aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IGFuIHVwZGF0ZWQgcmVsYXkgbWlnaHQg bm90IHdvcmsgd2l0aCBhIG5vbi11cGRhdGVkIHNlcnZlciBpc24ndCBhIG1ham9yIGlzc3VlLiAg IFRoaXMgaXNuJ3QgbGlrZSBUTFMgMS4zIHdoZXJlIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgYW5kIHRoZSBtaWRkbGVi b3hlcyBhcmUgb3BlcmF0ZWQgYnkgYWdlbmNpZXMgdW5rbm93biB0byBlYWNoIG90aGVyLg0KPiAN Cg0K From nobody Wed Nov 29 16:15:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F086D1272E1; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3q-zpBzGWACF; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 471E4124D6C; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.92] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAU0FHJ9059823 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:15:17 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.92] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1872BCC5-FEE9-40E2-948B-3EEF24220B61"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:15:16 -0600 In-Reply-To: <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, dhc-chairs@ietf.org To: Ted Lemon References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:15:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1872BCC5-FEE9-40E2-948B-3EEF24220B61 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Ted, It explicitly proposes changes to changes language to 2131 and 3315. = I=E2=80=99m not sure how to read that in any other way than updating = 2131 and 3315. Otherwise, if this is only intended for a specific context, it would = help to have some language in the draft describing that scope. As = written, I don=E2=80=99t see why a reader that was not involved in the = creation of the draft would not assume it to be general purpose. I=E2=80=99m almost convinced by the =E2=80=9Csame administrative = domain=E2=80=9D (although I think my =E2=80=9Ccustomer owned=E2=80=9D = cable modem has a relay, and it=E2=80=99s sort of fuzzy who=E2=80=99s = administrative it belongs to :-) ). I think it would help to strengthen = the language in 5.4 to make it clear what will break if people get this = wrong. Paragraph 2 of that section seems vague about when such a relay might = choose a DHCP vs non-DHCP port. Is there some expectation that the relay = would listen on both ports, in case of stray responses? Ben. > On Nov 29, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >=20 > Ben, the idea is that this is a very targeted approach for SDNs, not = something that makes sense as a general update to the DHCP base = specifications. Since relays and servers are generally within the same = administrative domain, there is little danger of actual interop = issues=E2=80=94the operator is going to be customizing these settings = very deliberately. We also tend to assume that the DHCP server is = pretty easy to update compared to relays or clients, so the fact that an = updated relay might not work with a non-updated server isn't a major = issue. This isn't like TLS 1.3 where the server and the middleboxes = are operated by agencies unknown to each other. >=20 --Apple-Mail=_1872BCC5-FEE9-40E2-948B-3EEF24220B61 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlofTZQACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1pCA//XJJqeEAwmQi6EabvM8RjixWnV/bqlsXVcoDua1mObVwQTPDV5r4B01HH d/X1HjmC2TGmZS1lnggJ+6Hb8ZBAvZO5ELpzx+byHFsqG4yhUKhgeZ3vOyvplj3w KFiEIUFNO+8tYsmhdZLtR0TCD5LRefya/sEry5zkgJieYMLbPfZhCLg231qkBsE4 ERxpSPYrahEUv9ohL9vbWgQbtNBPm/3mh7bm3Wh6d/BbHYIT4MqO3yDXRnGFoR1q CfNAddZ0OEApJ+1DxsshPd20c+hgISti6I+r7NZ2FYM/JqkaxYeKcO5n02lsZ0Wg 1NKtATlN6e1UkKsX7JTf761Xbbi5xdZB7OS5lb5+ZvJWHC5/DTU0tknBHTBo+K3s drxzHKuXqJWIhyEMBe8cZ65CR2/zA2ihXleY3oGEtCkvWTB1lCDA8rhx9lyJ1kHZ cS5K40+TiF9nNoFVdgpRX3ng/a0/xxVePBoQEdiE2MNz8f/KR/AHKT+trQD0zRoU ICa5Gq3HjtARBJdT89gU2HvCDmZuXjaON64HICrKhbsb/NwCPGgrYLevKocEK23f ZOlUSMi6KQf017puR7mfjI+4AMC5++NPM/0EKRdBoc1X6Pqljg8CzNKOUffZ4nbB pbh3qZkHaeKruWg6CrvelpluKl/wiyhc0aXoYEK7C5e023kk59U= =9Ueg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1872BCC5-FEE9-40E2-948B-3EEF24220B61-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 16:20:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63FD8128B27; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:20:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LeE6U6EmYuUg; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D917127AD4; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.92] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAU0Jun2060302 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:19:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.92] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <9C809E6E-69A2-4EBF-984B-81A6A80D568B@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6798F9CA-089B-4B1C-8585-1D701A35741C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:19:56 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , Ted Lemon , The IESG , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:20:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6798F9CA-089B-4B1C-8585-1D701A35741C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 29, 2017, at 6:10 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 > Thanks for the review. >=20 > I agree with Ted=E2=80=99s comment on this. This is targeted mainly in = a single admin domain. > If an operator wants to turn on this feature on a relay(s), he/she can = find out if the > server or upstream relay supports this or not, and it=E2=80=99s easy = to disable this feature > if it does not work (could also be bugs in software). Please see my comments to Ted (which crossed in the mail with your = message) >=20 > Also, the configuration of the feature is on the relay, the upstream = relays and > server as long as has the software upgraded, they don=E2=80=99t need = configuration. This > is similar to other DHCP relay options, for example, the =E2=80=98Agent = Cirucit ID=E2=80=99 or > the =E2=80=99Subscriber-ID=E2=80=9D sub-option, which does not require = relay do discovery to find > out if server supports that or not, and as soon as the server has the = updated software, > it would automatically supports this. Sure, but =E2=80=9Cas long as the the software has been upgraded=E2=80=9D = is an important precondition. >=20 > For the other "UPDATES..=E2=80=9D tag. I=E2=80=99m quoting Bernie=E2=80=99= s comment in another thread: >=20 > "We=E2=80=99ve already had this discussion and debate. It only = UPDATES if you want to > use this new capabilities, we don=E2=80=99t have a flag for = that. UPDATES usually implies > that you must do that.=E2=80=9D I don=E2=80=99t agree with that characterization of UPDATES. An update = that adds an optional feature is still an update. Whether or not = implementations are required to support it depends on the specifics of = the update. The main purpose is that readers of the original RFC know = they need to pay attention to the new one. >=20 >=20 > Best Regards, > - Naiming >=20 >> On Nov 29, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >>=20 >> Ben, the idea is that this is a very targeted approach for SDNs, not = something that makes sense as a general update to the DHCP base = specifications. Since relays and servers are generally within the same = administrative domain, there is little danger of actual interop = issues=E2=80=94the operator is going to be customizing these settings = very deliberately. We also tend to assume that the DHCP server is = pretty easy to update compared to relays or clients, so the fact that an = updated relay might not work with a non-updated server isn't a major = issue. This isn't like TLS 1.3 where the server and the middleboxes = are operated by agencies unknown to each other. >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_6798F9CA-089B-4B1C-8585-1D701A35741C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlofTqwACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A1y9w//fPq2sRumTNFoLnTFf01zFg3P7QjdwLWPpkLGopznwDuZeoEOChqjlcdG 1XOk4ueBFvftEmB/cVmLNw4VrNYhpHuUSZvAnJ8jyH9QGWrHO7nk/mX24RXyeCoj yc9pJeSSGj0I5DtiJnH9j5uNhmIbFmhoe5Thu3fO9ohDeyeiYr4BH99461Hs1Iiu XiQSV7R1wUmrybvAVruM97EmNJIjqFUo6DVYAtOzXg63CeBuoAwc3Xr4frWrQOv5 nzUwC8pqeOk3nDz0WVrUrQYq/a08xu6jvGz0JgNHmpLw/Nuk6kTFC/XxlWlajSN1 28F+eNxAmJERRRoFPBUAKUNtzrOy9vm8OuE20u98ayGGpgTQacj8xeRA3mZHf/R9 3BRcZ9qgtaZnYuzTZ60R2LkEu7jezEQnARjIKymebhl9wSWWkDn0VA/mBzFqEd7h 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[24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z22sm2198539qta.81.2017.11.29.16.41.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:41:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C832AF75-CDA1-4114-BC3F-EB4F6C41F773" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:41:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, dhc-chairs@ietf.org To: Ben Campbell References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:41:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C832AF75-CDA1-4114-BC3F-EB4F6C41F773 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Nov 29, 2017, at 7:15 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Otherwise, if this is only intended for a specific context, it would = help to have some language in the draft describing that scope. As = written, I don=E2=80=99t see why a reader that was not involved in the = creation of the draft would not assume it to be general purpose. Suppose they did. What would go wrong? > I=E2=80=99m almost convinced by the =E2=80=9Csame administrative = domain=E2=80=9D (although I think my =E2=80=9Ccustomer owned=E2=80=9D = cable modem has a relay, and it=E2=80=99s sort of fuzzy who=E2=80=99s = administrative it belongs to :-) ). I think it would help to strengthen = the language in 5.4 to make it clear what will break if people get this = wrong. Why would the owner or operator of the cable modem configure it to use a = different DHCP port? That said, I agree that this shouldn't be stated as updates to documents = it's not updating. This is an extension, not an update. So sections = 3.1 and 3.2 should really be stated as additional behavior for = conforming implementations, not as updates to the base documents. --Apple-Mail=_C832AF75-CDA1-4114-BC3F-EB4F6C41F773 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On = Nov 29, 2017, at 7:15 PM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> = wrote:
Otherwise, if this = is only intended for a specific context, it would help to have some = language in the draft describing that scope. As written, I don=E2=80=99t = see why a reader that was not involved in the creation of the draft = would not assume it to be general purpose.

Suppose they = did.   What would go wrong?

I=E2=80=99m almost convinced by the = =E2=80=9Csame administrative domain=E2=80=9D (although I think my = =E2=80=9Ccustomer owned=E2=80=9D cable modem has a relay, and it=E2=80=99s= sort of fuzzy who=E2=80=99s administrative it belongs to :-) ). I think = it would help to strengthen the language in 5.4 to make it clear what = will break if people get this wrong.

Why would the owner or operator of the cable = modem configure it to use a different DHCP port?

That said, I agree that this shouldn't = be stated as updates to documents it's not updating.   This is an = extension, not an update.   So sections 3.1 and 3.2 should really = be stated as additional behavior for conforming implementations, not as = updates to the base documents.

= --Apple-Mail=_C832AF75-CDA1-4114-BC3F-EB4F6C41F773-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 17:39:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4480F12896F for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:39:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pt7k_22F_pbC for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE7641286B1 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id k19so6923508qtj.6 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=3lVOP0OLwrL8RwUM0XBxah+JeLNePi7qkHUiPBOBExU=; b=ARQPfcAqh+E3VY5YgnvHTJdUJePjbDYpeNUBoGUXLS+Z6WICzv30MJRRLSGO9noU9j HjtOSXklcwyc1Kf+E9roQor3unBe0A66mDt4FACkd33sfQlvDlxhY3PuPv/I0IFupcBg FA8GGHrUlfqF5E9QcBuuB+RV4yg42VlT1Eh+yoPhclF46AwiahP+J8gh+x7/J5qECY/8 tsVHIgIPS7sLzWpjtgqkjjNOggGK1kLZxPIEy9kBuCz2GwkpZASOcRisGjnJltlv6x/z 83/L7g1WFsWgM++Bn7Uh36xIIRa43Fu6lmr2/4vOcF5RxjYHsxVxdu3kMosM+fM9GMQe 7U2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=3lVOP0OLwrL8RwUM0XBxah+JeLNePi7qkHUiPBOBExU=; b=K+LseBEa+NXWWR8wq9JUxVj6QJdYgBrrKtSzsaI729bT97K03/miM17oUs3iGDBfAS B6jBcHEEcssYT1PgA+OCYZvhqJ6TQLsb5M7mWYQK02WWruMi83Ve/fJt27azZAhUSspr fo+11mMHTZVU9zSl6W9U0Af4EINFum5ATizbSDcS8KHAE0T6Hv7BmOyk+FAUdkHN9pRN apTLPQB3r33qPyU1JgqQZIcsUEWPdw6T1gGdFLdDssh8WFAC+RrPe8krmF91TVsQ3U2A r6Bqbr5W3W5TKZ2dHn3HAvIsmBUXg+X1hLBS8eEDq9gztQCvm+yeT5OiM04T1kgBWWhK tVxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLqzWTLfRPILwEurCZ6140r3bFW+z250wlUapWG1h3iJybyyFK0 1KctCy+VGY5l9V5fr70+1/44Xg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbVR6aYFyDFgysTLlgxqbPdJ3B3u63bRUiWZHIoqbjQEqKZCWEv7KWeXxqxUfUwsLsTb+a3cg== X-Received: by 10.200.48.144 with SMTP id v16mr1351784qta.244.1512005985044; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:39:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cavall.lan (c-24-60-163-103.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6sm2228237qtz.68.2017.11.29.17.39.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:39:44 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_987B38F7-21C4-4033-A1F9-1938493DC39B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:39:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> Cc: Ben Campbell , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:39:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_987B38F7-21C4-4033-A1F9-1938493DC39B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What I would suggest is that you actually just specify the behavior and = not specify an update to the document. Changing the wording around the = update isn't solving the problem. So e.g. in section 3.1: OLD: This specification adds the following extension to the above paragraph. DHCP messages from a relay agent to a server are sent to the 'DHCP server' port (67), and the UDP source port it uses can be any valid UDP port available in the relay system, including the DHCP port 67. The default port number is 67 if there is no explicit configuration for the generalized source UDP port extension for DHCP relay. NEW: Relay agents implementing this specification may be configured instead = to send to a port number other than 67. This will only work when the = DHCP server or relay agent to which such a relay agent is forwarding = messages is configured to listen on the same port. And then do the same with section 3.2. This makes the text a lot easier to follow, and doesn't imply that this = document is in any way updating the base documents. --Apple-Mail=_987B38F7-21C4-4033-A1F9-1938493DC39B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii What I would suggest is that = you actually just specify the behavior and not specify an update to the = document.   Changing the wording around the update isn't = solving the problem.   So e.g. in section 3.1:

OLD:
   This = specification adds the following extension to the above
   paragraph.

      DHCP messages from = a relay agent to a server are sent to the 'DHCP
      server' port (67), and the UDP source = port it uses can be any
      valid = UDP port available in the relay system, including the DHCP
      port 67.  The default port number = is 67 if there is no explicit
      = configuration for the generalized source UDP port extension = for
      DHCP relay.

NEW:
Relay agents implementing this = specification may be configured instead to send to a port number other = than 67.   This will only work when the DHCP server or relay agent = to which such a relay agent is forwarding messages is configured to = listen on the same port.

And then do the same with section 3.2.

This makes the text a = lot easier to follow, and doesn't imply that this document is in any way = updating the base documents.


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d="htm'217?html'217,217?scan'217,217,208,217";a="324792256" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 30 Nov 2017 02:01:27 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAU21R0D002876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:01:27 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:01:26 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:01:26 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ted Lemon CC: Ben Campbell , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaVYtuZUuArhG2US4SOjv69UZUKMsQUWAgAAxPACAAAdOgIAADIKAgAADyICAAAYPAA== Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:01:26 +0000 Message-ID: <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.118] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_005_026179B861B64430AA5CA8B1ADA2CED5ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:01:33 -0000 --_005_026179B861B64430AA5CA8B1ADA2CED5ciscocom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_026179B861B64430AA5CA8B1ADA2CED5ciscocom_" --_000_026179B861B64430AA5CA8B1ADA2CED5ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ted, and others, Note that the server does not need to listen on this port, but it needs to = send back the relay-reply to that port, so I modified your text a little. the HTML diff is enclosed. Best Regards, - Naiming --_000_026179B861B64430AA5CA8B1ADA2CED5ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ted, and others,

Note that the server does not need to listen on this port, = but it needs to send back
the relay-reply to that port, so I modified your text a lit= tle.
the HTML diff is enclosed.

Best Regards,
- Naiming

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[24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f56sm2287654qtk.13.2017.11.29.18.17.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:17:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2B5F0CE3-DB38-4BB2-8F13-B5FAA693217D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:17:07 -0500 In-Reply-To: <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> Cc: Ben Campbell , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:17:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2B5F0CE3-DB38-4BB2-8F13-B5FAA693217D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Nov 29, 2017, at 9:01 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) = wrote: > Note that the server does not need to listen on this port, but it = needs to send back > the relay-reply to that port, so I modified your text a little. > the HTML diff is enclosed. Oops, sorry, it's been a while since I was following this closely. So = the text should say something more like this: Relay agents implementing this specification may be configured instead = to use a source port number other than 67, and to receive responses on = that same port. This will only work when the DHCP server or relay agent = to which such a relay agent is forwarding messages is upgraded to = support this extension. --Apple-Mail=_2B5F0CE3-DB38-4BB2-8F13-B5FAA693217D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Nov 29, 2017, at 9:01 PM, = Naiming Shen (naiming) <naiming@cisco.com> wrote:
Note that the server does not need to listen on = this port, but it needs to send back
the relay-reply to = that port, so I modified your text a little.
the HTML diff = is enclosed.

Oops, sorry, it's = been a while since I was following this closely.  So the text = should say something more like this:

Relay agents implementing = this specification may be = configured instead to use a source port number other than = 67, and to receive responses on that same port.  This will only = work when the DHCP server or relay agent = to which such a relay agent is forwarding = messages is upgraded to support this extension.


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Best Regards, - Naiming --_000_C03BD668FD364F32B12911CFFAB3FD79ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <91DF27403BC7F544A4CA53D71C9B9EED@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cool. new diff of html enclosed.

Best Regards,
- Naiming

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requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A18251287A3; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.92] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAU2OELB073358 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:24:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.92] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <1224A145-ADB8-4760-BBC7-9787CC3CBB2C@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_27F834C2-E8D0-4209-B523-D5C155F0EFB1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:24:13 -0600 In-Reply-To: <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, dhc-chairs@ietf.org To: Ted Lemon References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:24:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_27F834C2-E8D0-4209-B523-D5C155F0EFB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 First, as I said in my discuss point, I planned to clear after a round = of discussion. I think the discussion is on the right track, so I will = clear. More inline: > On Nov 29, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >=20 > On Nov 29, 2017, at 7:15 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >> Otherwise, if this is only intended for a specific context, it would = help to have some language in the draft describing that scope. As = written, I don=E2=80=99t see why a reader that was not involved in the = creation of the draft would not assume it to be general purpose. >=20 > Suppose they did. What would go wrong? I thought you were using the idea that this was not general purpose as = an argument about why we don=E2=80=99t need to worry about people trying = to mix relays that implement this with other elements that do not :-) >=20 >> I=E2=80=99m almost convinced by the =E2=80=9Csame administrative = domain=E2=80=9D (although I think my =E2=80=9Ccustomer owned=E2=80=9D = cable modem has a relay, and it=E2=80=99s sort of fuzzy who=E2=80=99s = administrative it belongs to :-) ). I think it would help to strengthen = the language in 5.4 to make it clear what will break if people get this = wrong. >=20 > Why would the owner or operator of the cable modem configure it to use = a different DHCP port? Sorry, the cable modem comment was merely an aside, not a material part = of my argument. I recognize there=E2=80=99s no real reason for it to use = this extension. >=20 > That said, I agree that this shouldn't be stated as updates to = documents it's not updating. This is an extension, not an update. So = sections 3.1 and 3.2 should really be stated as additional behavior for = conforming implementations, not as updates to the base documents. >=20 Thanks! Ben. --Apple-Mail=_27F834C2-E8D0-4209-B523-D5C155F0EFB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlofa80ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2P8A/9EBwc+Wk1zD8ZFPV5SEFlN0ZZ1GUY+W883EIYSPz055lro6PY2RZ6NQSb geQNHdRgERukqrKIvwctOZM7+GIpp3AVRnnAwSZRWQZwsNj2XGpbkP2PuH96a0B4 I6hWP+sioIJxDje6CGWUb0j71C9hHBxtzhAfB+GkY28iJVgm+oMVvkn2m1e4oB93 6GhGik/MoWlBNwURjMXhV+GMjWbHXZRKPLiFF1zB9LmfOZWc+wJtptylIlcQbCpF RmRziuPuo0VlMmFROHirnGTpIURP/x00spoatmWMP47xUsRSFpOYZNkV2zpFs+JE c8M99OTibDKfRSphnCFukNcv8X89aspZnLKJK7JzacQdpXQfUytYTwMK2ezmiOIZ 3e1JP/TSvX1OmMTnGBpXL6X19B6BZ7eESKsRvlpl4rJcgijWMNhKDVAymLa/A2Y3 SfbHCQ4f49DfrdPWAhECnqHLBSno73sphuQLorbgZb9shS7XXjRkRvCJkQUpmfF2 p6byHWLgUWbyAjXn5EUZC3E4HKoGctaQXc/otIroKVmXOdd7Ld0a+G/yHLKR2adY 32L2ULSqksy2r79F0I0uOeEnOWe5i5JStjwbBVj2xRd1B5xQcpuiGQA4VDJ6c9qd I/gyArmbG3pjxGh5Rm3r9kbInkxF72X5LasJJMEBTjEAGSPGxcs= =jfsi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_27F834C2-E8D0-4209-B523-D5C155F0EFB1-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 18:26:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E24124BFA; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:26:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151200881498.4910.12635544118258754868.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:26:54 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:26:55 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Discussion seems to be moving in the right direction, so I have cleared my response. I've added it back as a comment for now: (I want to "discuss" the following DISCUSS point. If the answer is that this is by design, and the working group thinks that the operational aspects are reasonable, then I will clear.) This extension places normative requirements on any upstream server or relay, which may or may not implement this spec. It further appears that if you try to use this extension without that support, things will break. That seems to require at least an update to the DCHP and DCHPv6 RFCs[1], and some method of discovery or fallback would be helpful. Section 5.4 discusses this a little bit, but I think it needs to talk about what to do when things fail. "Turn off the feature if you don't get DHCP responses" doesn't seem satisfying. [1] I see 3.1 and 3.2 make changes to 2131 and 3315, so it seems an "UPDATES... " tag is needed one way or another. -1, last paragraph: It seems like the 2119 keywords here would be better placed in the later sections about relay and server behavior. I suggest moving them there, and making the introductory language non-normative. - 3.1 and 3.2: I am surprised not to see 2119 keywords in the language added to 2131 and 3315: -8: This spec adds the ability to direct dhcp responses to non-standard ports. If the working group believes that does not affect the security considerations, please describe the rational. (I'm not saying that I think there's a problem, but I think the burden is on the working group to explain why they think there is not.) From nobody Wed Nov 29 18:30:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F3A124C27; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:30:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20kWZ5krIFAb; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD19F124BFA; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.92] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAU2Uh64074049 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:30:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.92] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6AC078DB-A21E-4F23-9275-70F47AA69A47"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:30:42 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ted Lemon , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 02:30:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6AC078DB-A21E-4F23-9275-70F47AA69A47 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks for the updates. In 5.4, you added advice to the first paragraph that one shouldn=E2=80=99t= turn this on unless the upstream devices support it. That=E2=80=99s = good. But I still wonder about the intent of the second paragraph. Is = the intent that the relay listens for messages on _both_ ports? Or that = it could be configure to listen on either? If a message arrives on the = standard port in as a result of one from a non-standard port, is it = valid? Thanks! Ben. > On Nov 29, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Cool. new diff of html enclosed. >=20 > Best Regards, > - Naiming >=20 > >=20 >=20 >> On Nov 29, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Ted Lemon wrote: >>=20 >> On Nov 29, 2017, at 9:01 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) = wrote: >>> Note that the server does not need to listen on this port, but it = needs to send back >>> the relay-reply to that port, so I modified your text a little. >>> the HTML diff is enclosed. >>=20 >> Oops, sorry, it's been a while since I was following this closely. = So the text should say something more like this: >>=20 >> Relay agents implementing this specification may be configured = instead to use a source port number other than 67, and to receive = responses on that same port. This will only work when the DHCP server = or relay agent to which such a relay agent is forwarding messages is = upgraded to support this extension. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_6AC078DB-A21E-4F23-9275-70F47AA69A47 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlofbVIACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A0nwQ//T1tpJ8iFMTjmnBQlbo/5vlziAcTZm4ONK2RaYgmtC026uAOM6domZeTP 2YqLFRn3gOMdrNr7/2GMPrNW5HbmrGLKkkc9gV3yhywaxItCOgJD0pktR4yxWbGk AMGVn9SP1DoQ9FPNuJjAEkgRz4fgGm5sG7fkqFEPeaUPCmaDChaMYHtxLSSh5mzP xYlhXelx0TkCOFL+LdP2qlg0onJdvm5kTp8yYwbp5cL4PowNQ0ZdWKYUiRBrvsOb a9PdMnPupFnVN7eqKmCJx2Y78dL9eyDa8QyeLrV6ogsWjf6GRvgmLu5yRa9sNTsa YWlY5WtKLfK+Coam89jJbbVvYFaNVaQiTsxZRI6ZAtDVa0yWXWI+8BFUxSBxsAYh oixk5EI+8F/Q8AYrKTUq8S4NHJROGOcdz3SIYthF/CXRE+pMN1LWqnUC7C72mlHx NcvePQTukhcIJAYQuFWjjmbidXrAXmHsCrbE3UT+d+zP+72AoDuwsVnPMp0NOccB Hd6srHWrivc1P+fS1XCnLffwRsgV5FXiYbUYedLpefx+y+Y+9gA/ljFbr1Rd5Bzp B/DLLmwa/qyLruGs4jXvWnyO+6Up4sJFarVqKBUQGdoRsi8JFRlDTqfCHtU4mpEu A0e6BJ6EwROLoUKBOfNeakxdxAu9r7GU+pzeKOPHoYXIpGD1KSw= =ydb5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6AC078DB-A21E-4F23-9275-70F47AA69A47-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 19:01:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D111241F5; 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30 Nov 2017 03:00:54 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAU30sjA008043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 03:00:54 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:00:53 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:00:53 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ben Campbell CC: Ted Lemon , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaVYtuZUuArhG2US4SOjv69UZUKMsQUWAgAAxPACAAAdOgIAADIKAgAADyICAAAYPAIAABGSAgAABhACAAAJIAIAACGyA Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 03:00:53 +0000 Message-ID: <6D4FEA3C-F966-415A-903C-F3FB6C69386F@cisco.com> References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.118] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <112BDD893FDBAA4C8437C8AE2546AD54@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 03:00:57 -0000 DQpIaSBCZW4sDQoNCg0KPiBPbiBOb3YgMjksIDIwMTcsIGF0IDY6MzAgUE0sIEJlbiBDYW1wYmVs bCA8YmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZXMu DQo+IA0KPiBJbiA1LjQsIHlvdSBhZGRlZCBhZHZpY2UgdG8gdGhlIGZpcnN0IHBhcmFncmFwaCB0 aGF0IG9uZSBzaG91bGRu4oCZdCB0dXJuIHRoaXMgb24gdW5sZXNzIHRoZSB1cHN0cmVhbSBkZXZp Y2VzIHN1cHBvcnQgaXQuIFRoYXTigJlzIGdvb2QuIEJ1dCBJIHN0aWxsIHdvbmRlciBhYm91dCB0 aGUgaW50ZW50IG9mIHRoZSBzZWNvbmQgcGFyYWdyYXBoLiBJcyB0aGUgaW50ZW50IHRoYXQgdGhl IHJlbGF5IGxpc3RlbnMgZm9yIG1lc3NhZ2VzIG9uIF9ib3RoXyBwb3J0cz8gT3IgdGhhdCBpdCBj b3VsZCBiZSBjb25maWd1cmUgdG8gbGlzdGVuIG9uIGVpdGhlcj8gSWYgYSBtZXNzYWdlIGFycml2 ZXMgb24gdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIHBvcnQgaW4gYXMgYSByZXN1bHQgb2Ygb25lIGZyb20gYSBub24t c3RhbmRhcmQgcG9ydCwgaXMgaXQgdmFsaWQ/DQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgaXQncyB1cCB0byBpbXBsZW1l bnRhdGlvbi4gSXQgaXMgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gbGlzdGVuIG9uIGJvdGggcG9ydHMsIGVzcGVjaWFs bHkgaW4gaXB2NCBESENQLA0KaXQgaGFzIHRvIGxpc3RlbiBvbiBwb3J0IDY3IGZvciBjbGllbnQg REhDUCBtZXNzYWdlcy4gRm9yIGFuIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLCBpZiBpdCBjb25maWd1cmVzDQp0 aGUgcmVsYXktcG9ydCBmZWF0dXJlIGFuZCBidXQgcmVjZWl2ZXMgdGhlIHNlcnZlciByZWxheS1y ZXBseSBtZXNzYWdlIG9uIHBvcnQgNjcsIHNob3VsZCBpdA0KZHJvcCBvciBzaG91bGQgaXQganVz dCBsb2cgYW4gZXJyb3IgYW5kIGtlZXAgaGFuZGxpbmcgdGhpcz8gZWl0aGVyIHdheSBpcyBmaW5l IEkgdGhpbmsuDQoNCkJ1dCBmcm9tIHRoZSBsYXJnZSBzY2FsZSByZWxheSBib3ggaW1wbGVtZW50 YXRpb24gY2FzZSwgc2F5IHRoZXJlIGFyZSB0aHJlZSByZWxheSBwcm9jZXNzZXMgaGFuZGxpbmcN CnRoZSBESENQIHJlbGF5IG9uIHRoZSBzYW1lIGJveCwgdGhlcmUgY2FuIGJlIGEgZGVmYXVsdC9j ZW50cmFsIERIQ1AgcHJvY2VzcyBqdXN0IHRvIHJlY2VpdmUgb24gdGhlDQpwb3J0IDY3LCB0aGVu IGRpc3BhdGNoIHRoZSB3b3JrIHRvIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgcmVsYXktYWdlbnRzIGluIHJvdW5kLXJv YmluIGZhc2hpb24uIEluIHN1Y2ggYSBzZXR1cCwgaWYgdGhlDQpzZXJ2ZXIgZG9lcyBub3Qgc3Vw cG9ydCB0aGlzIGZlYXR1cmUsIGFuZCBpdCBzZW5kcyBiYWNrIG9uIHBvcnQgNjcsIHRoaXMgY2Vu dHJhbCBESENQIHByb2Nlc3MgbWF5IG5vdA0KaGF2ZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBvbiB3aGljaCByZWxh eS1hZ2VudCB0byBnaXZlIGl0IHRvLiBJZiBpdCBkb2VzLCB0aGVuIHRoYXQgZGVmZWF0cyB0aGUg cHVycG9zZSBvZiBtdWx0aXBsZQ0KcmVsYXktYWdlbnRzIG9uIHRoaXMgYm94Lg0KDQpTbyB0byB5 b3VyIHF1ZXN0aW9uLCBpdCBkZXBlbmRzIG9uIHRoZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBhbmQgb3BlcmF0 aW9uYWwgbmVlZHMuDQoNCnRoYW5rcy4NCi0gTmFpbWluZw0KDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MhDQo+IA0K PiBCZW4uDQo+IA0KPj4gT24gTm92IDI5LCAyMDE3LCBhdCA4OjIyIFBNLCBOYWltaW5nIFNoZW4g KG5haW1pbmcpIDxuYWltaW5nQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gQ29vbC4g bmV3IGRpZmYgb2YgaHRtbCBlbmNsb3NlZC4NCj4+IA0KPj4gQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLA0KPj4gLSBO YWltaW5nDQo+PiANCj4+IDxkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRoYy1yZWxheS1wb3J0LTA5LWZyb20tOC5kaWZm Lmh0bWw+DQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4+IE9uIE5vdiAyOSwgMjAxNywgYXQgNjoxNyBQTSwgVGVkIExl bW9uIDxtZWxsb25AZnVndWUuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+PiANCj4+PiBPbiBOb3YgMjksIDIwMTcs IGF0IDk6MDEgUE0sIE5haW1pbmcgU2hlbiAobmFpbWluZykgPG5haW1pbmdAY2lzY28uY29tPiB3 cm90ZToNCj4+Pj4gTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgZG9lcyBub3QgbmVlZCB0byBsaXN0ZW4g b24gdGhpcyBwb3J0LCBidXQgaXQgbmVlZHMgdG8gc2VuZCBiYWNrDQo+Pj4+IHRoZSByZWxheS1y ZXBseSB0byB0aGF0IHBvcnQsIHNvIEkgbW9kaWZpZWQgeW91ciB0ZXh0IGEgbGl0dGxlLg0KPj4+ PiB0aGUgSFRNTCBkaWZmIGlzIGVuY2xvc2VkLg0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IE9vcHMsIHNvcnJ5LCBpdCdz IGJlZW4gYSB3aGlsZSBzaW5jZSBJIHdhcyBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGhpcyBjbG9zZWx5LiAgU28gdGhl IHRleHQgc2hvdWxkIHNheSBzb21ldGhpbmcgbW9yZSBsaWtlIHRoaXM6DQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gUmVs YXkgYWdlbnRzIGltcGxlbWVudGluZyB0aGlzIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gbWF5IGJlIGNvbmZpZ3Vy ZWQgaW5zdGVhZCB0byB1c2UgYSBzb3VyY2UgcG9ydCBudW1iZXIgb3RoZXIgdGhhbiA2NywgYW5k IHRvIHJlY2VpdmUgcmVzcG9uc2VzIG9uIHRoYXQgc2FtZSBwb3J0LiAgVGhpcyB3aWxsIG9ubHkg d29yayB3aGVuIHRoZSBESENQIHNlcnZlciBvciByZWxheSBhZ2VudCB0byB3aGljaCBzdWNoIGEg cmVsYXkgYWdlbnQgaXMgZm9yd2FyZGluZyBtZXNzYWdlcyBpcyB1cGdyYWRlZCB0byBzdXBwb3J0 IHRoaXMgZXh0ZW5zaW9uLg0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Wed Nov 29 19:11:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF4B127978; 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Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:26:16 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:26:15 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:26:15 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ted Lemon , Ben Campbell CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaVYtuZUuArhG2US4SOjv69UZUKMsQUWAgAAxPACAAAdOgIAADIKA Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:26:15 +0000 Message-ID: <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.118] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_005_001E840F75A64D68B029B3665B066A45ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:11:21 -0800 Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:26:20 -0000 --_005_001E840F75A64D68B029B3665B066A45ciscocom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_001E840F75A64D68B029B3665B066A45ciscocom_" --_000_001E840F75A64D68B029B3665B066A45ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have a change in section 3.1, 3.2 and 5.4, please review to see if this is = enough. Diff PDF enclosed: Best Regards, - Naiming --_000_001E840F75A64D68B029B3665B066A45ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Have a change in section 3.1, 3.2 and 5.4, please review to see if this is = enough.
Diff PDF enclosed:

Best Regards,
- Naiming
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--_005_001E840F75A64D68B029B3665B066A45ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 29 20:03:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2788312778E; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:03:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6lLlcUPX9Wtu; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ABF91201F8; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.92] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAU42vIl083633 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:02:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.92] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <1DEBFAC1-0E43-4E41-99B1-D01EE85005B5@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CA5D8104-10BC-4714-922D-2332C8CE654B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:02:56 -0600 In-Reply-To: <6D4FEA3C-F966-415A-903C-F3FB6C69386F@cisco.com> Cc: Ted Lemon , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> <6D4FEA3C-F966-415A-903C-F3FB6C69386F@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 04:03:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CA5D8104-10BC-4714-922D-2332C8CE654B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 29, 2017, at 9:00 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 >=20 >> On Nov 29, 2017, at 6:30 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>=20 >> Thanks for the updates. >>=20 >> In 5.4, you added advice to the first paragraph that one shouldn=E2=80=99= t turn this on unless the upstream devices support it. That=E2=80=99s = good. But I still wonder about the intent of the second paragraph. Is = the intent that the relay listens for messages on _both_ ports? Or that = it could be configure to listen on either? If a message arrives on the = standard port in as a result of one from a non-standard port, is it = valid? >=20 > I think it's up to implementation. It is possible to listen on both = ports, especially in ipv4 DHCP, > it has to listen on port 67 for client DHCP messages. For an = implementation, if it configures > the relay-port feature and but receives the server relay-reply message = on port 67, should it > drop or should it just log an error and keep handling this? either way = is fine I think. >=20 > But from the large scale relay box implementation case, say there are = three relay processes handling > the DHCP relay on the same box, there can be a default/central DHCP = process just to receive on the > port 67, then dispatch the work to one of the relay-agents in = round-robin fashion. In such a setup, if the > server does not support this feature, and it sends back on port 67, = this central DHCP process may not > have information on which relay-agent to give it to. If it does, then = that defeats the purpose of multiple > relay-agents on this box. >=20 > So to your question, it depends on the implementation and operational = needs. Thanks, and that seems reasonable. But I=E2=80=99m still unclear on the = intent of that paragraph. Can you elaborate? Ben. --Apple-Mail=_CA5D8104-10BC-4714-922D-2332C8CE654B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlofgvAACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A02cQ/+IWbxmRVeLv75ksmbex+PqSnagFBFkzq55pDH20D9m04dpqYayiNBgSXL 7gq3h7meRZf/Ez/MOwkg+PQXXYDDrh/X5AlDbda52e+hK/LaBYf726UG4DKLaFkm Wv4aUsq33Sp0VaxOqycNBYCsPazURRbyuFFDHPSMBWwtgGxRggzG8ajxfBk5WAc3 w8uwAmcXeKvNuie11sqkMd9Pz0I6xs7uUCDyM98h3o46A7WxnkGdHbvZpSaEfTF9 hkzBhvRt89bUZCUQ5WRyXBz0zlStWjCmNFjSe0g2iX0ZFBck0hChCvax7FAoH8Fa sxaXlYW/s5X4EJtkj7zKpEx+j8uDrQO4WvB3Phqegt/VA91g8cH49zoSksF5YjDB CIDTn8QykdEDpz3gb8IaG0M2+P1tmON4rQzaKNTzrFIkwImf2DwDYpPvnbIjMyiB LIrOKq4aPQwPXE+T+Tq1+RG3ONJsVqZFyXCMBQiq4uAnwa19SinSY1oPn9O4cr0h wo0i/u23k8pWMXCh9dy++w5h210ZqHnlk1acxh6iftr7P0QGBlyMFANdTUH54Yup 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([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 23:36:44 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ben Campbell CC: Ted Lemon , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaVYtuZUuArhG2US4SOjv69UZUKMsQUWAgAAxPACAAAdOgIAADIKAgAADyICAAAYPAIAABGSAgAABhACAAAJIAIAACGyAgAARWQCAABozAA== Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:36:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> <6D4FEA3C-F966-415A-903C-F3FB6C69386F@cisco.com> <1DEBFAC1-0E43-4E41-99B1-D01EE85005B5@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: 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06:35:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Dynamic Host Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Generalized UDP Source Port for DHCP Relay Authors : Naiming Shen Enke Chen Filename : draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2017-11-29 Abstract: This document proposes an extension to the DHCP protocols that allows a relay agent to use any available source port for upstream communications, and to include a DHCP option that can be used to statelessly route responses back to the appropriate source port on downstream communications. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 30 00:46:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F771200C5; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:46:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151203158247.4818.4261694794632958096.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:46:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:46:22 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking forward to hearing answer to Adam's last question. 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[24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y45sm2909455qtc.20.2017.11.30.04.36.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 04:36:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_317ABCBF-EFB5-420D-93DB-2E27E047FEB6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 07:36:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ben Campbell , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> <6D4FEA3C-F966-415A-903C-F3FB6C69386F@cisco.com> <1DEBFAC1-0E43-4E41-99B1-D01EE85005B5@nostrum.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:36:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_317ABCBF-EFB5-420D-93DB-2E27E047FEB6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I'm sorry to belabor this, but I'm realizing that there's a bit of = ambiguity in the new text in that there are actually two types of = messages sent by relays: server-direction and client-direction. The = current text doesn't make that distinction: Relay agents implementing this specification may be configured instead = to use a source port number other than 67, and to receive responses on = that same port. This will only work when the DHCP server or relay agent = to which such a relay agent is forwarding messages is upgraded to = support this extension. I do not know what the actual intention is=E2=80=94if all relay messages = toward clients come from port 67, there's no problem. All relay = messages to clients _have_ to come from port 67. It could be that you = intend relay messages from relays to relays in the direction of clients = to come from a different source port. But right now I think that the = text is just about messages from relays to relays or servers, in the = direction of servers. Is that correct? If so, the easiest change = would be something like this: Relay agents implementing this specification may be configured instead = to use a source port number other than 67 when relaying messages toward = servers, and to receive responses toward clients on that same port. This = will only work when the DHCP server or relay agent to which such a relay = agent is forwarding messages is upgraded to support this extension. --Apple-Mail=_317ABCBF-EFB5-420D-93DB-2E27E047FEB6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I'm sorry to belabor this, = but I'm realizing that there's a bit of ambiguity in the new text in = that there are actually two types of messages sent by relays: = server-direction and client-direction.   The current text doesn't = make that distinction:

Relay agents implementing this = specification may be configured instead to use a source port number other than 67, and to receive responses on that same port. This will only work when the DHCP server or relay agent to which such a relay agent is forwarding messages is upgraded to support this extension.

I do not know what the actual intention = is=E2=80=94if all relay messages toward clients come from port 67, = there's no problem.   All relay messages to clients _have_ to come = from port 67.   It could be that you intend relay messages from = relays to relays in the direction of clients to come from a different = source port.   But right now I think that the text is just about = messages from relays to relays or servers, in the direction of servers. =   Is that correct?   If so, the easiest change would be = something like this:

Relay agents implementing this specification may be = configured instead to use a source port number other than 67 when = relaying messages toward servers, and to receive responses toward = clients on that same port. This will only work when the DHCP server or = relay agent to which such a relay agent is forwarding messages is = upgraded to support this extension.

= --Apple-Mail=_317ABCBF-EFB5-420D-93DB-2E27E047FEB6-- From nobody Thu Nov 30 05:35:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietf.org Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880381293F4; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:35:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org, Tomek Mrugalski , dhc-chairs@ietf.org, tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com, dhcwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151204893554.4818.15139952596588607114.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:35:35 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [dhcwg] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:35:35 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I am watching the discussion about whether the same port is used to send and receive these messages on Ben's (previous) Discuss (now a No-Objection). From nobody Thu Nov 30 08:43:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41DEF1200FC; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:43:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wDvSN1pO4bgx; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6778127876; 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30 Nov 2017 16:43:00 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (xch-aln-004.cisco.com [173.36.7.14]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAUGgxI0012832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:42:59 GMT Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) by XCH-ALN-004.cisco.com (173.36.7.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:42:59 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com ([173.36.7.13]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:42:59 -0600 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: "v6ops@ietf.org" , "dhcwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation (DHCPv6 PD) on cellular links - works ok Thread-Index: AQHTafbnOF1NwEy2cE6/8AeiHgsEYaMtIKEz Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:42:59 +0000 Message-ID: <87D21F39-7C1D-4F08-A3EE-39882C8832E6@cisco.com> References: <7537deef-8f87-5187-1e44-595ac63a16ca@gmail.com>, <6077c7a4-01c8-8b80-588f-0ef4af153487@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6077c7a4-01c8-8b80-588f-0ef4af153487@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:03:14 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mork.no; s=b; t=1512068595; bh=XQ/UoHivB5Fz5Z8xyNaQUDe+FRsDdIvMSPtT2Y75pps=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:Message-ID:From; b=FeH1a0S+7bWA2M3vavfqJMcvudJcf6bnIIMXHYHwi39UiA49aZsaWaCj0xP6OlJt/ 67Wl2A20+oQ9gVscnL6U4R6cZu2FFFbphzKc0z3OZMH4w+ggq5yzqcrFkXD+pzUzP9 KcAmLcQl9yAkLBOMHgn7XlKz/rQ1s65NTlHRuHDw= Received: from bjorn by miraculix.mork.no with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eKU77-000055-Km; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:03:13 +0100 From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B8rn_Mork?= To: "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "dhcwg\@ietf.org" , "v6ops\@ietf.org" Organization: m References: <7537deef-8f87-5187-1e44-595ac63a16ca@gmail.com> <6077c7a4-01c8-8b80-588f-0ef4af153487@gmail.com> <87D21F39-7C1D-4F08-A3EE-39882C8832E6@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:03:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87D21F39-7C1D-4F08-A3EE-39882C8832E6@cisco.com> (Bernie Volz's message of "Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:42:59 +0000") Message-ID: <87a7z37fny.fsf@miraculix.mork.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at canardo X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation (DHCPv6 PD) on cellular links - works ok X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 19:03:25 -0000 > On Nov 30, 2017, at 11:18 AM, Alexandre Petrescu > wrote: > > v6opsers, > > We succeeded in making DHCPv6 PD work natively on a cellular link. > I would claim it to be a first[*]. > Packet dump available upon request. > > The UE device is a Huawei E392u-12 USB dongle produced in 2011. It > hosts a baseband processor Qualcomm model MDM9600 (or model MDM9200, > or an Intel - not sure). MDM9200. Not that it matters much... > It lets all standard DHCPv6 messaging through. The DHCPv6 client > 'odhcpv6' is running on linux laptop. Can't help being a bit curious about the Linux driver used for this test? PPP? qmi_wwan? Something else? (crossing fingers for qmi_wwan :-) > DHCPv6-PD is blocked on other baseband processors, including Qualcomm > and Balong versions; they are hosted by many smartphones, USB cellular > dongles, mobile personal WiFi hotspots and IoT devices. A sample list > is available upon request. Yes, the "smarter" these things get, the harder it is to make them work properly. 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30 Nov 2017 21:58:46 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAULwk2V024787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:58:46 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:58:46 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:58:46 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Ted Lemon CC: Ben Campbell , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port@ietf.org" , dhcwg , "dhc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTaVYtuZUuArhG2US4SOjv69UZUKMsQUWAgAAxPACAAAdOgIAADIKAgAADyICAAAYPAIAABGSAgAABhACAAAJIAIAACGyAgAARWQCAABozAIAAdUMAgACdHQA= Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:58:46 +0000 Message-ID: <6A666599-E7C4-474E-960B-3172D3E710A7@cisco.com> References: <151198969282.31355.16877065112899804068.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <200CE2CC-D6D1-40BA-843A-1193DFFDEE74@fugue.com> <4364B55F-0BC5-42B9-965D-FEF9D9AED9C5@nostrum.com> <1F317916-E0C1-4EF5-A9C8-448FF02D3525@fugue.com> <001E840F-75A6-4D68-B029-B3665B066A45@cisco.com> <8563F7DE-86CC-45D9-BF2B-6CCB0AC292B8@fugue.com> <026179B8-61B6-4430-AA5C-A8B1ADA2CED5@cisco.com> <6D4FEA3C-F966-415A-903C-F3FB6C69386F@cisco.com> <1DEBFAC1-0E43-4E41-99B1-D01EE85005B5@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.173.26] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6A666599E7C4474E960B3172D3E710A7ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-dhc-relay-port-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:58:49 -0000 --_000_6A666599E7C4474E960B3172D3E710A7ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpUZWQsDQoNCk5QLiBTb3VuZHMgcmVhc29uYWJsZS4gSSBjYW4gYWRhcHQgdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUg bmV4dCB1cGRhdGUuIFRoYW5rcy4NCg0KLSBOYWltaW5nDQoNCk9uIE5vdiAzMCwgMjAxNywgYXQg NDozNiBBTSwgVGVkIExlbW9uIDxtZWxsb25AZnVndWUuY29tPG1haWx0bzptZWxsb25AZnVndWUu Y29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCkknbSBzb3JyeSB0byBiZWxhYm9yIHRoaXMsIGJ1dCBJJ20gcmVhbGl6 aW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUncyBhIGJpdCBvZiBhbWJpZ3VpdHkgaW4gdGhlIG5ldyB0ZXh0IGluIHRo YXQgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGFjdHVhbGx5IHR3byB0eXBlcyBvZiBtZXNzYWdlcyBzZW50IGJ5IHJlbGF5 czogc2VydmVyLWRpcmVjdGlvbiBhbmQgY2xpZW50LWRpcmVjdGlvbi4gICBUaGUgY3VycmVudCB0 ZXh0IGRvZXNuJ3QgbWFrZSB0aGF0IGRpc3RpbmN0aW9uOg0KDQpSZWxheSBhZ2VudHMgaW1wbGVt ZW50aW5nIHRoaXMgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiBtYXkgYmUgY29uZmlndXJlZCBpbnN0ZWFkIHRvIHVz ZSBhIHNvdXJjZSBwb3J0IG51bWJlciBvdGhlciB0aGFuIDY3LCBhbmQgdG8gcmVjZWl2ZSByZXNw b25zZXMgb24gdGhhdCBzYW1lIHBvcnQuIFRoaXMgd2lsbCBvbmx5IHdvcmsgd2hlbiB0aGUgREhD UCBzZXJ2ZXIgb3IgcmVsYXkgYWdlbnQgdG8gd2hpY2ggc3VjaCBhIHJlbGF5IGFnZW50IGlzIGZv cndhcmRpbmcgbWVzc2FnZXMgaXMgdXBncmFkZWQgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCB0aGlzIGV4dGVuc2lvbi4N Cg0KSSBkbyBub3Qga25vdyB3aGF0IHRoZSBhY3R1YWwgaW50ZW50aW9uIGlz4oCUaWYgYWxsIHJl bGF5IG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRvd2FyZCBjbGllbnRzIGNvbWUgZnJvbSBwb3J0IDY3LCB0aGVyZSdzIG5v IHByb2JsZW0uICAgQWxsIHJlbGF5IG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRvIGNsaWVudHMgX2hhdmVfIHRvIGNvbWUg ZnJvbSBwb3J0IDY3LiAgIEl0IGNvdWxkIGJlIHRoYXQgeW91IGludGVuZCByZWxheSBtZXNzYWdl cyBmcm9tIHJlbGF5cyB0byByZWxheXMgaW4gdGhlIGRpcmVjdGlvbiBvZiBjbGllbnRzIHRvIGNv bWUgZnJvbSBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCBzb3VyY2UgcG9ydC4gICBCdXQgcmlnaHQgbm93IEkgdGhpbmsg dGhhdCB0aGUgdGV4dCBpcyBqdXN0IGFib3V0IG1lc3NhZ2VzIGZyb20gcmVsYXlzIHRvIHJlbGF5 cyBvciBzZXJ2ZXJzLCBpbiB0aGUgZGlyZWN0aW9uIG9mIHNlcnZlcnMuICAgSXMgdGhhdCBjb3Jy ZWN0PyAgIElmIHNvLCB0aGUgZWFzaWVzdCBjaGFuZ2Ugd291bGQgYmUgc29tZXRoaW5nIGxpa2Ug dGhpczoNCg0KUmVsYXkgYWdlbnRzIGltcGxlbWVudGluZyB0aGlzIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gbWF5 IGJlIGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQgaW5zdGVhZCB0byB1c2UgYSBzb3VyY2UgcG9ydCBudW1iZXIgb3RoZXIg dGhhbiA2NyB3aGVuIHJlbGF5aW5nIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRvd2FyZCBzZXJ2ZXJzLCBhbmQgdG8gcmVj ZWl2ZSByZXNwb25zZXMgdG93YXJkIGNsaWVudHMgb24gdGhhdCBzYW1lIHBvcnQuIFRoaXMgd2ls bCBvbmx5IHdvcmsgd2hlbiB0aGUgREhDUCBzZXJ2ZXIgb3IgcmVsYXkgYWdlbnQgdG8gd2hpY2gg c3VjaCBhIHJlbGF5IGFnZW50IGlzIGZvcndhcmRpbmcgbWVzc2FnZXMgaXMgdXBncmFkZWQgdG8g c3VwcG9ydCB0aGlzIGV4dGVuc2lvbi4NCg0KDQo= --_000_6A666599E7C4474E960B3172D3E710A7ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; 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