Subject: [Dime] Bulk Session Signaling in Diameter

From: Mark Jones <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 14:29:26 -0400

In the last few IETF meetings, we've discussed ways of expressing groups of
sessions and reviewed how some SDOs, e.g. TISPAN, have already tackled this.
Marco Liebsch presented a good summary of this problem and current solutions
in Quebec.

I would like to submit an I-D that specifies a solution for this problem. I
circulated an abstract (offline) and here is the resulting version:

"In large network deployments, a single Diameter peer can support over a
million concurrent Diameter sessions. Recent use cases have revealed the
need for Diameter peers to apply the same operation to a large group of
Diameter sessions concurrently. The Diameter base protocol commands operate
on a single session so these use cases could result in many thousands of
command exchanges in order to enforce the same operation on each session in
the group. In order to reduce signaling, it would be desirable to
enable bulk operations on all (or part of) the sessions managed by a
Diameter peer using a single or a few command exchanges. This document
specifies the Diameter protocol extensions to achieve this signaling
optimization."

I understand that this work is not within the scope of the current DIME
charter and so propose the charter be amended to include the following
clause:

" - Protocol extensions to optimize signaling when a Diameter peer needs
to apply the same operation to large groups of sessions."

Does the WG think this is a useful work item? Are there objections to
amending the charter to include it?

Thanks
Mark

---

From: Marco Liebsch <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:57:56 +0000

I support adding the work item on bulk signaling to the DIME charter.

Marco

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Mark Jones
Sent: Freitag, 5. August 2011 20:29
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Dime] Bulk Session Signaling in Diameter

In the last few IETF meetings, we've discussed ways of expressing groups of sessions and reviewed how some SDOs, e.g. TISPAN, have already tackled this. Marco Liebsch presented a good summary of this problem and current solutions in Quebec.

I would like to submit an I-D that specifies a solution for this problem. I circulated an abstract (offline) and here is the resulting version:

"In large network deployments, a single Diameter peer can support over a million concurrent Diameter sessions. Recent use cases have revealed the need for Diameter peers to apply the same operation to a large group of Diameter sessions concurrently. The Diameter base protocol commands operate on a single session so these use cases could result in many thousands of command exchanges in order to enforce the same operation on each session in the group. In order to reduce signaling, it would be desirable to enable bulk operations on all (or part of) the sessions managed by a Diameter peer using a single or a few command exchanges. This document specifies the Diameter protocol extensions to achieve this signaling optimization."

I understand that this work is not within the scope of the current DIME charter and so propose the charter be amended to include the following clause:

" - Protocol extensions to optimize signaling when a Diameter peer needs to apply the same operation to large groups of sessions."

Does the WG think this is a useful work item? Are there objections to amending the charter to include it?

Thanks
Mark

---

From: Qin Wu <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 09:59:48 +0800

+1
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marco Liebsch 
  To: Mark Jones ; [email-masked] 
  Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 8:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [Dime] Bulk Session Signaling in Diameter

  Marco

  Thanks

  Mark

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From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:03:11 +0700

> I support adding the work item on bulk signaling to the DIME

I don't think that it is as simple as just adding a work item: the
charter says nothing about this kind of work, so I think that it is
clear that a re-charter would be necessary (again).

...

---

From: Avi Lior <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 09:27:42 -0400

I also support Bulk Session Signalling in Diameter.  I think this is going to be useful for example in the area of Machine to Machine.

A machine to machine deployment typically consists of a group of like machines (same configuration, same feature set, requiring the same service authorization etc).  Sometime we want to control each of the machines but often we want to control a group of machines.  Using tags to group machines and then operating on groups of machines matching a tag-set would provide a tremendous efficiency to the network.

I think that this is needed and I am available to work on this topic.

On 11-08-05 14:29 , "Mark Jones" <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:

Thanks
Mark

---

From: Mark Jones <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:51:30 +0200

It looks like there are enough people willing to contribute to this work and
no concerns except that it is not in the current charter.

DIME chairs, please could you initiate the re-chartering process such that
the new charter includes the following clause:

Thanks
Mark

---

From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:05:01 +0700

On 8/22/2011 2:51 PM, Mark Jones wrote:
> It looks like there are enough people willing to contribute to this work
> and no concerns except that it is not in the current charter. 

Actually, I wonder how often this need arises; if it is a rare
occurrence, I question the need to modify Diameter to optimize for
something that hardly ever happens...

> 
> DIME chairs, please could you initiate the re-chartering process such
> that the new charter includes the following clause:
> 

Again, that's not enough.  The current charter states that the purpose
of the dime WG is to "focus on maintenance and extensions to the
Diameter protocol required to enable its use for authentication,
authorization, accounting and provisioning in network access as well as
for other applications environments (e.g., IP telephony, mobility)."
How does this fit in with "authentication, authorization, accounting and
provisioning in network access"?  BTW, if you're going to be adding a
(non-AAA) wish list, I'd like to see state synchronization thrown in
there, as well.

---

From: jouni korhonen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:32:03 +0300

> (non-AAA) wish list, I'd like to see state synchronization thrown in

We (chairs) took a task to propose an update of the charter text. Once we got the first version of the text to the list, we can start looking in more detail what actually goes in.

- Jouni & Lionel

---

From: Mark Jones <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:48:24 +0200

> something that hardly ever happens...
Other SDOs have identified problems that they are solving or will solve
using some form of bulk signaling in Diameter (see Marco's deck from
IETF81). I don't want to solve their particular problems in DIME but there
is enough commonality in their requirements that we should be able to define
the bulk signalling solution once in DIME.

> provisioning in network access"?

It is an extension to the Diameter protocol to enable bulk operations
against the sessions created during "authentication, authorization,
accounting and provisioning in network access".

> BTW, if you're going to be adding a
This was in Marco's deck as one of the motivations for having bulk signaling
operations.

Regards
Mark