From nobody Fri Mar 1 13:13:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@irtf.org Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F38F130FBF; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 13:10:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: din@irtf.org, irtf-chair@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.92.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155147460331.6101.12479954431192982096.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 13:10:03 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] dinrg - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 21:10:14 -0000 Dear Melinda Shore, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. dinrg Session 1 (2:00 requested) Wednesday, 27 March 2019, Morning Session I 0900-1100 Room Name: Karlin 1/2 size: 150 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/sessions/dinrg.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Melinda Shore Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 70 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: icnrg trans Second Priority: ace tls saag People who must be present: Melinda Shore Dirk Kutscher Allison Mankin Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Mar 1 18:18:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCA4912D4EA; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 18:17:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TbuyjqtRoMfg; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 18:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D67E13108E; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 18:17:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost2.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c8:406a:91ff:fe74:f2b7]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x222HN87009103; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 03:17:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.106] (p54A6C2FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.194.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44B90g24Tkz1Bp8; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 03:17:23 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 03:17:20 +0100 Message-Id: <71380398-B9E0-48D4-BEFB-9EAC6C47FB82@tzi.org> To: suit , teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, eat@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Din] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF104: FINAL AGENDA X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2019 02:17:46 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the FINAL AGENDA for IETF104. Remember that, even though this will now go to the printers, there is still some potential for changes. The somewhat annoying coflicts cose/teep and lpwan/t2trg remain. I also don't like that I'll have to miss the cacao BOF (vs. core), dinrg/suit, coinrg/git. rats has been swapped against the paw/saag conflict. All times are CET (Central European Time) =3D=3D UTC +1 hours. Note = that there is no daylight saving time in effect at the time in Europe (this starts on the Sunday *after* IETF). (You can get pure UTC times on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for those who want to listen from remote.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten FRIDAY, March 22, 2019 -- Fri 0930=E2=80=931830 T2TRG Work Meeting -- Istanbul room SATURDAY/SUNDAY, March 23/24. 2019 -- Hackathon (including various interops) (Grand Hilton Ballroom) -- Sun 1700-1900 Welcome Reception - Congress Hall 1/2 -- Sun 1800-2000 Hot RFC Lightning Talks - Congress Hall 3 MONDAY, March 25, 2019 0900-1100 Morning Session I Congress H 3 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Congress H 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Congress H 1 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Proposed Research Group Karlin 3 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Congress H 3 INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG Karlin 3 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Congress H 2 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Karlin 1/2 TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Karlin 1/2 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Congress H 2 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Congress H 3 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Congress H 2 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Congress H 3 IAB smart Stopping Malware and Researching Threats Berlin/Brussels INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Grand BR IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Proposed Research Group Karlin 3 RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Athens/Barcel. SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG Congress H 1 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG TUESDAY, March 26, 2019 0900-1100 Morning Session I Karlin 3 ART uta Using TLS in Applications WG - 1000 - = 1100 Grand BR INT homenet Home Networking WG Berlin/Brussels SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG Karlin 1/2 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG Congress H 2 TSV quic QUIC WG 1120-1220 Morning Session II Athens/Barcel. INT *** lwig Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG Congress H 1 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Proposed Research Group Congress H 3 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Berlin/Brussels ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Karlin 1/2 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Congress H 1 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Congress H 3 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Grand BR INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Congress H 1 IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing Congress H 2 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG WEDNESDAY, March 27, 2019 0900-1100 Morning Session I Karlin 1/2 IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Congress H 1 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Grand BR RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Congress H 3 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG Congress H 2 TSV quic QUIC WG 1120-1320 Morning Session II Grand BR IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum - 12:20 - 13:20 Grand BR SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG - 11:20 - 12:20 1500-1700 Afternoon Session I Grand BR OPS wgtlgo Technology Deep Dive - Modern Router = Architecture BOF THURSDAY, March 28, 2019 0900-1030 Morning Session I Karlin 3 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Congress H 3 IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG Athens/Barcel. RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Congress H 1 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Berlin/Brussels SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1050-1220 Morning Session II Congress H 3 GEN git GitHub Integration and Tooling WG Congress H 1 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Congress H 2 IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols 1350-1550 Afternoon Session I Congress H 3 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Grand BR INT *** paw Predictable and Available Wireless BOF Athens/Barcel. OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Congress H 1 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1610-1810 Afternoon Session II Athens/Barcel. INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Grand BR SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS BOF FRIDAY, March 29, 2019 0900-1030 Morning Session I Grand BR ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Congress H 1 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Berlin/Brussels SEC cacao Collaborative Automated Course of Action = Operations for Cyber Security BOF 1050-1250 Morning Session II Berlin/Brussels INT ipwave IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments WG Karlin 1/2 IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking Congress H 1 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG Athens/Barcel. TSV taps Transport Services WG From vasiliy.kevroletin@serokell.io Mon Mar 4 00:30:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB08129A85 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 00:30:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: missing p= tag)" header.d=serokell.io Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJAEg6C3n5ET for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 00:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8C391292F1 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 00:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id a17so3531637ljd.4 for ; Mon, 04 Mar 2019 00:30:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=serokell.io; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WurWuZpdImfWngokToh7hadaSRy7nhcufesGGLt/h34=; b=qgN+0956i6wLVfUx61SjczQKc+LCNVhSwNkf7oZpE8WqISQunpkpndUG9X9raXW+t7 oBAkUP8+CdTLTLW8oBEMC7TTTEmKrj0yRY3zl5FWUsfx1yg+ARcOEX8hBzxIKsKN/Wqh xjE50pZEw2gHTUBr9chX4xYDutWjkYWZX9QUU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WurWuZpdImfWngokToh7hadaSRy7nhcufesGGLt/h34=; b=IlYEfNvwsxhXsWOYgW22A7X8zSkCZmzmsnX3og7cfNoODh2WIODQXKVPIZ29w125t7 EtKoNvCSbTxgwx4RzgM9QAmMpyMMZaDt49tFshSJUySOYglC7HKVsGl06kmrPvpQzd7h A+MDK7cLY0b0DsQzeGfuHwd61als+W8JGLFAvforoOjT4mnfiqsrK2+nZ+eRtVxC+edL YUpG6iStKLxyxgfOK4rxrIR5O7dZ5LZQPIYzLwHqxkl+Ri7XoxLS2deWKQ1Vlz0h/BTw WXLW53Wl5XqB2XbKqOe7BQPyC+JSjTiSsm/zHtF/rnc94MTI14l8OKIvUOVn5X+3zg0g 96Iw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXdQPoT0y02LNxeOJbSx3fkL2luYev68W/Nbr0fAzMHo6UFUbm8 ffPUgvVbHqvjCpQz4pf+IfEP5DTPOJVVBeLbsnu11Yxt9gA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwu4OZ8eGiDcNnqNzduya8bio8WPAJKc9qMVnVTyF6gnTKIANSMLNWo48IVXJDVXZbfj6fCT1f8u9FJuJ6nGlU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8092:: with SMTP id i18mr10045264ljg.91.1551688237545; Mon, 04 Mar 2019 00:30:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Vasiliy Kevroletin Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 15:30:26 +0700 Message-ID: To: din@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Din] [DIN] question about a quorum intersection in SCP X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 08:33:14 -0000 Hello, mailing list *About me* My name is Vasiliy Kevroletin, currently, I am studying SCP as a part of my work at serokell.io. I have a question about Stellar network and SCP. *Short version* How system ensures (both in practice and in theory), that there will be quorum intersection despite ill-behaved nodes? *Long version* As far as I understand, to guarantee safety, the paper requires FBAS to have quorum intersection despite ill-behaved nodes (correct me please if I am wrong). Which, for me, sounds reasonable and similar to the requirement from the classical PBFT algorithm to have `2*f + 1` well-behaving nodes. However, the requirement of quorum intersection seems to be more complex compared to the classical PBFT, because in SCP each node has it's own "trust preferences" (quorum slices). Which means that the choice of each node contributes to the security of the whole system. I don't know right terminology, but I try to visualize union of all quorum slices as a graph and I intuitively call it as a "trust graph". My question can be reformulated as "how to analyze a trust graph?". I am interested both in mathematical analysis, experiments and observing a real-world functioning system. I am interested in the analysis of "trust graph" to answer more practical questions: + how each node should choose quorum slices? are there any guidelines? + does someone have an idea if it possible to get some metrics from the system (for example amount of Stake) and automatically propose (or recommend) quorum slices for each node? + is it possible to somehow analyze existing system and understand that there are potential problems with choices of particular nodes? For example, that failure of only a few nodes can partition the system Thank you -- Best regards, Vasiliy Kevroletin From nobody Wed Mar 13 07:43:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B72112788F for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zadbf5AGlwaH for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 07:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailservice.tudelft.nl (mailservice.tudelft.nl [130.161.131.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33DB1127133 for ; 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Wed, 13 Mar 2019 15:42:49 +0100 From: Aaron Ding To: "din@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: EdgeSys programme Thread-Index: AQHU2asHLVNMZVov3kWuDybRWhDIQw== Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 14:42:49 +0000 Message-ID: <24D849C8-7826-44A7-967F-CDC0B2D96D57@tudelft.nl> Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_24D849C8782644A7967FCDC0B2D96D57tudelftnl_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] EdgeSys programme X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 14:43:03 -0000 --_000_24D849C8782644A7967FCDC0B2D96D57tudelftnl_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Rm9yIERJTlJHIGNvbGxlYWd1ZXM6ICB0aGFua3MgZm9yIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIEVkZ2VTeXMgYW5k IHN1Ym1pdHRpbmcgeW91ciB3b3JrLg0KDQpUaGUgcHJvZ3JhbW1lIG9mIDIwMTkgaXMgb25saW5l Og0KaHR0cHM6Ly9lZGdlc3lzMTkuY20uaW4udHVtLmRlL3Byb2dyYW1tZS5odG1sDQoNClRoZXJl IGFyZSAyIGtleW5vdGVzIGZyb20gQW1hem9uIGFuZCBDYW1icmlkZ2UsIGFuZCBhIHBhbmVsIHNl c3Npb24gd2l0aCBwYW5lbGlzdHMgZnJvbSBBbWF6b24sIEJlbGwgTGFicywgQ2FtYnJpZGdlLCBT YW1zdW5nIEFJIGFuZCBUZWxlZsOzbmljYSwgdG8gYWRkcmVzcyBuZXcgY2hhbGxlbmdlcyBpbiBl ZGdlIGNvbXB1dGluZyBkb21haW4uDQoNCkxvb2sgZm9yd2FyZCB0byBncmVldGluZyB5b3UgaW4g RHJlc2Rlbi4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KQWFyb24NCg== --_000_24D849C8782644A7967FCDC0B2D96D57tudelftnl_ Content-Type: text/html; 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Thu, 14 Mar 2019 00:30:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=scs.stanford.edu; s=scs; t=1552548607; bh=m6XTYl9eHCMAApRn0JXZQWSgWG23+aAl1x3AhX7Ud7Y=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version; b=PBSsy1DHZ8b53K74kKDE4FCP3J+jFhFe2NXjEqDtiVtjoT63vCzQsGRGZ5CT3aR49 k9UhgWZlNXOdMQzaA2x2fbLRzj7X2qcyT1h9Mr6eizX6kgpy3PvYPXXPaLtnpdU0+P z8AQzgzFqaiBW0Jo6j0FQWlM2QhxkMvCmolb9N00= Received: (from dm@localhost) by market.scs.stanford.edu (8.16.0.29/8.16.0.29/Submit) id x2E7U6pb077893; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 00:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: David Mazieres To: Vasiliy Kevroletin , din@irtf.org In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: David Mazieres expires 2019-06-03 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 00:30:06 -0700 Message-ID: <87va0loqv5.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] [DIN] question about a quorum intersection in SCP X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 07:30:11 -0000 Vasiliy Kevroletin writes: > Hello, mailing list > > *About me* > > My name is Vasiliy Kevroletin, currently, I am studying SCP as a part > of my work at serokell.io. I have a question about Stellar network and > SCP. > > *Short version* > > How system ensures (both in practice and in theory), that there will be quorum > intersection despite ill-behaved nodes? You don't need to ensure this on a whole system level. In fact you can't, because of Sybil attacks, in which an attacker creates fake nodes. The point is that everyone keeps agreement with the people they consider important, and this works transitively. BTW, you may find our recent Simplified SCP useful if you are looking at SCP: http://www.scs.stanford.edu/~dm/blog/simplified-scp.html > *Long version* > > As far as I understand, to guarantee safety, the paper requires FBAS > to have quorum intersection despite ill-behaved nodes (correct me > please if I am wrong). Which, for me, sounds reasonable and similar > to the requirement from the classical PBFT algorithm to have `2*f + 1` > well-behaving nodes. Sort of, except there's no longer any f. > However, the requirement of quorum intersection seems to be more complex > compared to the classical PBFT, because in SCP each node has it's own "trust > preferences" (quorum slices). Which means that the choice of each node > contributes to the security of the whole system. I don't know right terminology, > but I try to visualize union of all quorum slices as a graph and I intuitively > call it as a "trust graph". My question can be reformulated as "how to analyze a > trust graph?". I am interested both in mathematical analysis, experiments and > observing a real-world functioning system. > > I am interested in the analysis of "trust graph" to answer more practical > questions: > + how each node should choose quorum slices? are there any guidelines? Many applications provide an extrinsic rationale for trust. For example, if all the certificate authorities ran SCP, no CA wants to be the one that signed conflicting messages and therefore proved it couldn't be trusted. Hence, depending on "all CAs" (even though different people have different notions of what "all CAs" means) might be good in some contexts. Another example, in Stellar, if you have digital dollar tokens backed by a company like Stronghold or AnchorUSD, you inherently need those companies to redeem your tokens, so want to put them in your quorum slices to avoid getting forked from them. > + does someone have an idea if it possible to get some metrics from the system > (for example amount of Stake) and automatically propose (or recommend) quorum > slices for each node? In a counterparty-free blockchain that would make sense (like Bitcoin or Ethereum). For other applications, the replicated state machine might not have a notion of stake. > + is it possible to somehow analyze existing system and understand that there > are potential problems with choices of particular nodes? For example, that > failure of only a few nodes can partition the system That question might be worth investigating. David From nobody Mon Mar 18 03:39:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3D9126D00 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 03:39:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7diFf_sVlA50 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 03:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28F451310F1 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 03:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.69] ([77.21.39.17]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M8hlZ-1h9wHe47P7-004igH for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 11:39:36 +0100 From: "Dirk Kutscher" To: din@irtf.org Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 11:39:34 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.4r5594) Message-ID: <3730FEB0-5461-4441-B0F1-C515FEDD214F@dkutscher.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_CC1E65CE-0CB8-4C97-B228-7D7FB238E13A_=" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:TgvGD7UclIlf+oZPZQwbxIO9XA/4bPp3ffzmF3RgZRFu2lXWTsV 4Xtwvl16CAiSjV+3LjlIwndBCmnOlyjHHP9PZOXwsfATp3auvsJgRAJLVFxxT9g8tja7+Ku D2hap2g0QfgrTKyVHh97afzH4h6tUhKvnyrpNMCEzSQvxvb5J256XQEKuVg1z9Kc4pbk0S1 NtHFM0R+LAoOWwiPNNmHw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:K+ZmHKX0j0c=:kzZGHpP4gAkk597lDJldBw nPLs2rsXGYWaAoKf3hIiSL+e3dJkRO9Tuq4ubVTgHfS/ZAxNb7JQZBi442+6vNLGLkbuSd81G /k0h4KNV9IwIKH1FDC1WVnxCRo8mptm0pHxXIaX84YiWih5BxGMAKrKkT89uhk/G7LjEu0x3Y dCd0N1sWGgV/CHClAIAM+TTmmVlKiyDMxSOwjK2NLRSoiSH50sD1N82hrxw5xwuTaPIq7EQgS s2mct6DRoMEwrKQFDo2x3LEFBCMjHLc2NXuwgyeK1v5/0FlhPzcNcKijbHBx39FLdTm1YP9Br LfjPxhIhOBUOOJuCB0EFJFrP4xsb8/8lcyNe2tm4SxWtN6SFFpLaHuI0YLPD0UsEIpoL/cI2z YMsqktwoSbn0OHt9YF4WWmUkhWu7n1QbnF7o9oVxFY5nZvzBh9iRQ48aPo0s7jcNykV4Fp5ux plU7MAZ21HjyCAOxYOKml8sxD+r3M/bzPvQqAATnygg+cY368wbrGtLPsd7nndWA8f8QrvjA+ FwOfYugySpP8hwyQ0fcG3FDEyc3TALoickokewLwLQcUBESK2k2wuC+BlaUQB08W38/8Qphk7 EMYsr6LmQjpz3ukyZsi2HWw/dP5Re0rjBMBOWAHnquzHb0SsEFqZJo9tuubpCgco/IAxd0CXq axNK+qlNYtGZrjSDC+DTrZsNKXzcoculma80XlUZw5bxi7vxBDQOWME7HELyGe0n09bmtsNqP 6sM3W6kQq9ObC8bZblZHCmzkuTfTW8BUYCY/MjPfMpSlwUhj8h/FMhlwNdU= Archived-At: Subject: [Din] DINRG agenda for IETF-104 X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 10:39:41 -0000 --=_MailMate_CC1E65CE-0CB8-4C97-B228-7D7FB238E13A_= Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown Hello DINRG, We have posted the agenda for the Prague meeting: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/agenda-104-dinrg-00 # DINRG Agenda for IETF-104 * Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 09:00 -- 11:00 * Room: Karlin 1/2 | 09:00 | Welcome, Agenda Bashing | Chairs | | 09:10 | Transport Issues for End-System Multicast and Message Propagation in Distributed Ledger Technologies | David Mazieres | | 09:40 | GNU Name System | Christian Grothoff | | 10:10 | Byzantine Agreement Protocols for Large-Scale Decentralized Identity Management | Nathan Aw (remote) | | 10:40 | NGI Trust Open Calls | Brook Schofield | | 10:50 | Wrap-up | Chairs | | 11:00 | End of Meeting | | Let us know in case of any updates, questions etc. Best regards, Melinda and Dirk --=_MailMate_CC1E65CE-0CB8-4C97-B228-7D7FB238E13A_= Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello DINRG,

We have posted the agenda for the Prague meeting:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materi= als/agenda-104-dinrg-00

DINRG Agenda for IETF-104

  • Wednesday, March 27, 2019, 09:00 -- 11:00
  • Room: Karlin 1/2

| 09:00 | Welcome, Agenda Bashing | Chairs |
| 09:10 | Transport Issues for End-System Multicast and Message Propagati= on in Distributed Ledger Technologies | David Mazieres |
| 09:40 | GNU Name System | Christian Grothoff |
| 10:10 | Byzantine Agreement Protocols for Large-Scale Decentralized Ide= ntity Management | Nathan Aw (remote) |
| 10:40 | NGI Trust Open Calls | Brook Schofield |
| 10:50 | Wrap-up | Chairs |
| 11:00 | End of Meeting | |

Let us know in case of any updates, questions etc.

Best regards,
Melinda and Dirk

--=_MailMate_CC1E65CE-0CB8-4C97-B228-7D7FB238E13A_=-- From nobody Mon Mar 25 16:05:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D546412014D; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:04:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y_TGYKz_G0KU; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F7A0120150; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [31.133.146.60] ([31.133.146.60]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MGQSj-1hBaWY2IKj-00Gm3W; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 00:04:55 +0100 From: "Dirk Kutscher" To: din@irtf.org Cc: dinrg-chairs@irtf.org Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 00:04:54 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.4r5594) Message-ID: <95F74D42-8D7D-4982-B070-0A4A9F6D9EDF@dkutscher.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:m7uShPd8JlFgw+o+2ju/7920I80wVjIqRAWMyW3Nufk9DBTCDiJ t3tc/ebgsPeMPEgtd2auadV9h6cyqPTCB1t87ZOjumEoWYmmgCG3BPW30c959FF7qvZEmOw /owW7+QaOk3ipdtOFuLiBNq7MAzrw41Wag4Y47eQ3HRhVCqczhV6bArpudSQYhol0Cdc5Pk SUX1v27fOJGoRyXq2WL6A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:aFDBfevwTzc=:WCxosGa3muaplkOki4kY4H p0drNloXKfzRKMZZiABiekwY95wlSvutvSmewQCtkNZgdagLV3XJbjv2qi7C8+IwQ3uOKvi9u VJ9GihCyAfm83W7qkxRLRBhguIJ1beyAXhDKPEBIzHdIPv9Kvwk6Bo8LC3AddFf7h5nRhdbjG unR2a43OX5nmhxQer/NNM1S/5R1KOYQmQaaapKybo5rstt8DcGPm+vkV4E6Ff0SolTub2CoBe UX3jsByzcpyBh9y9Es9Pf2hDIMGSFJsMUW32uk6zBjh4JUkF+hFLz5jKAjj/FdFpbRPpbHY0u a0AiuR3cO3g4DBSMQJCLNYy0OG6oVlE691LL48oMtLWw85S4KrwPfl2sqoLaCcToErOKZ3/+C epTCg3JtgeK/vALRkWnX6+HeIQuyvaBD0BlMx5kWGDQojt+N+zbItUQ1dmzpsGTuVsbvxNbkm MwBVanveqK8pghD3WYCXBgLFOwpb3DKdyZg/BttJZDb3F/t+DYbNsBEWG5cAu9SxFJjgxTjyu nVtl6qnljZ/niZ77ZpKhJZ8sF/uAAFzRRq6XBJHD/QFB1JcYEUo+eGY/6ZoCtLA2YMcZc2/6q OZ1342J6Yvzjeqtsfgio8NVSNCo7TWx6uzADgb1t6VDlkvKTi9IrDerKHe2p/jS56MTdNqmHq 9NS2gbPwnAnT9dRG906D5YdE7qxYSQRK1aWV2tbUewaYrvkheAYpcuAQXZat07iC0cE9NnhGz o/ZP4d7Schxuu7T15AV4xZJI4b1CvGlBs0vs9GllA/4XnFNJVwIIXE3iEM8= Archived-At: Subject: [Din] please send presentations X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:05:00 -0000 Dear presenters at Wednesday’s DINRG session, Please send us your presentation as soon as possible. Thanks, Melinda and Dirk