From nobody Thu Jul 2 23:00:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F773A0D16 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 23:00:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ivCpeBKu0l8A for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E66703A052C for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 23:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49yk6Q3JsqzyTZ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:29:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 615446958.354246-561ce5a163472f83e03dc0abcde6b9d0 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-Id: <94B927FA-0F6F-4F82-877E-9C115B045A79@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:29:18 +0200 To: suit@ietf.org, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, lake@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: [Din] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF108: FINAL AGENDA X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 06:00:17 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the FINAL AGENDA for IETF108. Remember that, occasionally, further agenda changes do happen. There has been no change from the DRAFT AGENDA in the Conflicts I noted: LAKE/SUIT (!). ACE/RATS. (I think 6LO/COSE can be ignored.) The only significant change is that LAKE/SUIT/LOOPS has been exchanged with CORE/TLS/TSVWG (Tuesday 1410Z vs. Friday 1100Z). Also, the mysterious HACKATHON has vanished. All times appear to be in UTC, even though nothing says so in the text agenda; https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc gives the same times. This time, I have focused on the events in Week 31; please see the original agenda for Week 30 preliminaries. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten MONDAY, July 27, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Rm 2 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Research = Group Rm 5 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 2 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance = and Extensions WG Rm 3 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 6 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Rm 7 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 3 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Research Group Rm 7 SEC gnap Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol WG TUESDAY, July 28, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 1 ART *** asdf A Semantic Definition Format for Data and = Interactions of Things BOF Rm 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 3 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Rm 8 TSV masque Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC = Encryption WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 7 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 6 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Rm 7 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG WEDNESDAY, July 29, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 4 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 5 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for Constrained = Environments WG Rm 6 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 7 TSV quic QUIC WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 1 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of Resource-constrained Nodes = WG Rm 4 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Rm 5 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG Rm 6 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1410-1550 IETF Plenary - Plenary THURSDAY, July 30, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 3 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and = Approach WG Rm 4 RTG raw Reliable and Available Wireless WG Rm 5 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Rm 6 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 4 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks WG Rm 7 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1410-1550 Session III Rm 2 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 3 INT *** drip Drone Remote ID Protocol WG Rm 6 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management Environment WG FRIDAY, July 31, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 5 SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange WG Rm 6 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things WG Rm 7 TSV loops Local Optimizations on Path Segments BOF 1300-1350 Session II Rm 3 ART wpack Web Packaging WG Rm 4 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 6 SEC emu EAP Method Update WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 4 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Research Group Rm 7 SEC privacypass Privacy Pass WG From nobody Wed Jul 15 03:27:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2EF3A09AC for ; 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Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:27:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from BADWLRZ-SWMBX08.ads.mwn.de (BADWLRZ-SWMBX08.ads.mwn.de [IPv6:2001:4ca0:0:108::164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "BADWLRZ-SWMBX08", Issuer "BADWLRZ-SWMBX08" (not verified)) by postout2.mail.lrz.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B6D8z1t4GzyVl for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:27:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from BADWLRZ-SWMBX11.ads.mwn.de (2001:4ca0:0:108::167) by BADWLRZ-SWMBX08.ads.mwn.de (2001:4ca0:0:108::164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1979.3; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:27:26 +0200 Received: from BADWLRZ-SWMBX11.ads.mwn.de ([fe80::f0dd:745f:a1b4:5014]) by BADWLRZ-SWMBX11.ads.mwn.de ([fe80::f0dd:745f:a1b4:5014%13]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.003; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:27:26 +0200 From: "Bajpai, Vaibhav" To: "din@irtf.org" CC: "Bajpai, Vaibhav" , Trinh Viet Doan Thread-Topic: dtube, decentralised video streaming Thread-Index: AQHWWpKIBzGR2HhyPkS0yZK51BpoUA== Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:27:26 +0000 Message-ID: <8e4324e4-b836-4514-87a0-2b68a8f7ce39@BADWLRZ-SWMBX08.ads.mwn.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthMechanism: 04 X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: BADWLRZ-SWMBX11.ads.mwn.de X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2.206.49.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <138D4BACF1A66941B2DD155912DC0D83@ads.mwn.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Din] dtube, decentralised video streaming X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 10:27:37 -0000 SGkgRElOUkcsDQoNCldlIHN0dWRpZWQgRFR1YmUsIGEgZGVjZW50cmFsaXNlZCB2aWRlbyBzdHJl YW1pbmcgcGxhdGZvcm0gKHVzZXMgSVBGUyB1bmRlcm5lYXRoKSANCmFuZCBjb21wYXJlZCBpdHMg cGVyZm9ybWFuY2UgdG8gWW91VHViZS4gUGFwZXIgaXMgbm93IG9ubGluZSwgdGhvdWdodCB0byBz aGFyZToNCg0K4oCUIFZhaWJoYXYNCg0KTWVhc3VyaW5nIERlY2VudHJhbGl6ZWQgVmlkZW8gU3Ry ZWFtaW5nOiBBIENhc2UgU3R1ZHkgb2YgRFR1YmUNCg0KcGFwZXI6IGh0dHBzOi8vYml0Lmx5LzJT T2NxZ1QNCnNsaWRlOiBodHRwczovL2JpdC5seS8zaVdJdWR6DQp2aWRlbzogaHR0cHM6Ly92aW1l by5jb20vNDM3MTEwMjg4DQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpWYWli aGF2IEJhanBhaSwgd3d3LnZhaWJoYXZiYWpwYWkuY29tDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Jul 15 08:58:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: din@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 051143A0ABD for ; 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Wed, 15 Jul 2020 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8e4324e4-b836-4514-87a0-2b68a8f7ce39@BADWLRZ-SWMBX08.ads.mwn.de> In-Reply-To: <8e4324e4-b836-4514-87a0-2b68a8f7ce39@BADWLRZ-SWMBX08.ads.mwn.de> From: Ted Hardie Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 08:58:05 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Bajpai, Vaibhav" Cc: "din@irtf.org" , Trinh Viet Doan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4366505aa7cfec8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Din] dtube, decentralised video streaming X-BeenThere: din@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of distributed Internet Infrastructure approaches, aspects such as Service Federation, and underlying technologies" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 15:58:47 -0000 --000000000000d4366505aa7cfec8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for sharing your work. I do wonder how different the results might be with a different corpus of videos. If I understand correctly, you chose by selecting trending videos from each service. Those are videos which are very likely to be in the caches of edge devices in Google's CDN. While the apparent hop count might not change with an unpopular video, the backhaul to collect the video might change the apparent (and relative) performance. A larger point may be that consolidation and centralization seem to be inversely proportional in some cases. Larger providers can afford to support multiple datacenters or to use CDNs, so they may have better distribution through the network than distributed systems run by smaller players. If the resulting latency improvements drive traffic, you have a feedback loop. regards, Ted On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 AM Bajpai, Vaibhav wrote: > Hi DINRG, > > We studied DTube, a decentralised video streaming platform (uses IPFS > underneath) > and compared its performance to YouTube. Paper is now online, thought to > share: > > =E2=80=94 Vaibhav > > Measuring Decentralized Video Streaming: A Case Study of DTube > > paper: https://bit.ly/2SOcqgT > slide: https://bit.ly/3iWIudz > video: https://vimeo.com/437110288 > > > ------------------------------ > Vaibhav Bajpai, www.vaibhavbajpai.com > > _______________________________________________ > Din mailing list > Din@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/din > --000000000000d4366505aa7cfec8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for sharing your work.=C2=A0 I do wonder how d= ifferent the results might be with a different corpus of videos.=C2=A0 If I= understand correctly, you chose by selecting trending videos from each ser= vice.=C2=A0 Those are videos which are very likely to be in the caches of e= dge devices in Google's CDN.=C2=A0 While the apparent hop count might n= ot change with an unpopular video, the backhaul to collect the video might = change the apparent (and relative) performance.

A = larger point may be that consolidation and centralization seem to be invers= ely proportional in some cases.=C2=A0 Larger providers can afford to suppor= t multiple datacenters or to use CDNs, so they may have better distribution= through the network than distributed systems run by smaller players.=C2=A0= If the resulting latency improvements drive traffic, you have a feedback l= oop.

regards,

Ted
=

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 AM Bajpai, Vaibhav <vaibhav.bajpai@tum.de> wrote:
Hi DINRG,

We studied DTube, a decentralised video streaming platform (uses IPFS under= neath)
and compared its performance to YouTube. Paper is now online, thought to sh= are:

=E2=80=94 Vaibhav

Measuring Decentralized Video Streaming: A Case Study of DTube

paper: https://bit.ly/2SOcqgT
slide: https://bit.ly/3iWIudz
video: https://vimeo.com/437110288


------------------------------
Vaibhav Bajpai, www.vaibhavbajpai.com

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