From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:49:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16061 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Zm-0007mB-Dw for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:49:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92HnIpC029887 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:49:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Zl-0007ly-BH for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:49:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16021 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Zj-00048R-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:49:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Zi-00048N-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:49:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57ZW-0007eP-2z; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:49:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A44DN-0007ge-7K for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:01:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07954 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A44D9-0003xy-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:01:35 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A44D7-0003xO-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:01:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8TK0vm26601; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:00:57 +0300 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 23:00:56 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: discuss@apps.ietf.org cc: rsofia@fccn.pt, , Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps-02.txt (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hello everybody, A new revision of the apps area IPv4 address dependency survey has been published. The changes have been rather significant. We'd appreciate comments, corrections etc. so we could wrap it up soon. Please keep Rute Sofia in the loop as she's editing the document. Pekka writing as v6ops co-chair p.s. as a gem, a 20 year old Experiemental protocol was discovered which is now included in the survey. I wonder if it was ever used ;-) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:38:02 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Survey of IPv4 Addresses in Currently Deployed IETF Application Area Standards Author(s) : P. Nesser II Filename : draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps-02.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2003-9-29 The transition from an all IPv4 network to an all IPv6 network requires several interim steps, being one of them the evolution of current IPv4 dependent specifications to a format independent of the type of IP addressing schema used. Hence, it is hoped that specifications will be re-designed and re-implemented to become network address independent, or at least to dually support IPv4 and IPv6. To achieve that step, it is necessary to survey and document all IPv4 dependencies experienced by current standards - Full, Draft, and Proposed - and Experimental RFCs. Hence, this document describes IPv4 addressing dependencies that deployed IETF Application Area documented Standards may experience. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps-02.txt [...] From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 25 14:09:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11177 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADSqa-0004P7-UU for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9PI98HO016923 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADSqa-0004Os-3x for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11163 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADSqX-0000RW-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADSqX-0000RP-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADSqT-0004NP-5m; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD4Ql-0002a7-5o for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:04:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12615 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD4Qj-0006sE-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:04:49 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD4Qd-0006rM-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:04:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9OG40l28371; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:04:03 +0300 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:04:00 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: discuss@apps.ietf.org cc: Rute Sofia Subject: WG Last Call: last two draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-* documents (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , FYI; Your oxen are being gutted and you're invited to the bloodfest. In other words.. Feedback & Review is sought. Please take a look at the apps IPv4 survey document: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps-03.txt (Note, there are also other documents under different areas which cover many documents.) Please send feedback. In particular, it would be good to identify specifications which have incorrect information, or specifications which are not longer relevant and could be moved to historic (if someone bothered to do that, but that's a different topic), or the like. Pekka writing as v6ops co-chair ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:00:39 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Cc: bob@thefinks.com, jonne.soininen@nokia.com Subject: WG Last Call: last two draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-* documents Hi all, This is a WG Last Call for comments on sending the following last two "Survey of IPv4 Addresses in Currently Deployed IETF Standards" documents to the IESG for consideration as Informational RFCs: Survey of IPv4 Addresses in Currently Deployed IETF Application Area Standards http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-apps-03.txt Survey of IPv4 Addresses in Currently Deployed IETF Internet Area Standards http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv4survey-int-02.txt Please review these documents carefully, and send your feedback to the list. Please also indicate whether or not you believe that this document is ready to go to the IESG. Silence does NOT indicate consent. Unless sufficient support is demonstrated on the list, the documents will not be send to the IESG. The last call will end in 2 weeks, on 7th November. Pekka, Jonne & Bob From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 25 14:09:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11180 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADSqb-0004PO-U6 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9PI99c7016940 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADSqa-0004Oq-2a for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11161 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADSqX-0000RT-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADSqX-0000RN-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADSqS-0004NF-TV; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:09:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABwSc-0000N7-GX for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:22:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16662 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABwSa-0003LI-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:22:04 -0400 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABwSZ-0003L9-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:22:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9LDLWR29179; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:21:32 +0300 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:21:31 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: discuss@apps.ietf.org cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, The application "transition" document has seen significant revision: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt All comments would be appreciated. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:40:02 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce: ; Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Application Aspects of IPv6 Transition Author(s) : M. Shin, et. al. Filename : draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2003-10-20 The document specifies application aspects of IPv6 transition. As IPv6 is deployed, the application developers and the administrators will face several problems. This draft clarifies the problems and considerations occurring in transition period between IPv4 applications and IPv6 applications. It also proposes guidelines that help application developers understand how to develop IP version-independent applications during the transition period. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 11:09:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22384 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vZ-0002jN-P0 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RG99WS010475 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vZ-0002is-KD for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22333 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:08:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vX-0007Ij-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vW-0007Ia-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vS-0002d9-Fo; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADjd1-0004bm-Kx for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:04:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15686 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADjcx-0002k4-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:04:11 -0500 Received: from mail.consulintel.es ([213.172.48.142] helo=consulintel.es) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADjcw-0002jr-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:04:10 -0500 Received: from consulintel02 ([217.126.187.160]) (authenticated user jordi.palet@consulintel.es) by consulintel.es (consulintel.es [127.0.0.1]) (MDaemon.PRO.v6.8.5.R) with ESMTP id 21-md50000000001.tmp for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:07:35 +0100 Message-ID: <198901c39bb9$7d7b8d50$9402a8c0@consulintel.es> Reply-To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" To: Cc: References: Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt (fwd) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:05:31 +0100 Organization: Consulintel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Spam-Processed: consulintel.es, Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:07:35 +0100 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 217.126.187.160 X-Return-Path: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: discuss@apps.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I think is a very good work, just found a couple of minor errors. 1. have been developed to migrate replace with "have been developed to do the transition from IPv4 to IPv6 networks" or "have been developed for the transition of the today's IPv4 networks" or "have been developed for the transition of IPv4 networks to IPv6" (other combinations possible !, key points: avoid using "migration/migrate", and use "networks" instead of "network") 3.2 DNS does not indicate which the IP version will be used replace with "DNS does not indicate which IP version will be used" Regards, Jordi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pekka Savola" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt (fwd) > Hi, > > The application "transition" document has seen significant revision: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt > > All comments would be appreciated. > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:40:02 -0400 > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > To: IETF-Announce: ; > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : Application Aspects of IPv6 Transition > Author(s) : M. Shin, et. al. > Filename : draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt > Pages : 26 > Date : 2003-10-20 > > The document specifies application aspects of IPv6 transition. As > IPv6 is deployed, the application developers and the administrators > will face several problems. This draft clarifies the problems and > considerations occurring in transition period between IPv4 > applications and IPv6 applications. It also proposes guidelines > that help application developers understand how to develop IP > version-independent applications during the transition period. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shin-v6ops-application-transition-02.txt > ********************************** Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit Presentations and videos on line at: http://www.ipv6-es.com This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 11:09:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22414 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9va-0002js-K2 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RG9AlV010508 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9va-0002jO-BP for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22338 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vX-0007Iw-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vW-0007Im-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vS-0002dT-Tp; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9Yb-0008K9-5P for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:45:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20769 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:45:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9YY-0006tk-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:45:22 -0500 Received: from joy.songbird.com ([208.184.79.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9YY-0006tB-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:45:22 -0500 Received: from bbprime (jay.songbird.com [208.184.79.253]) by joy.songbird.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9RFokf29900; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:50:46 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:41:11 -0800 From: Dave Crocker X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.22) Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> To: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UGF0cmlrIEbkbHRzdHL2bQ==?= CC: ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, , , , , Pete Resnick , Ted Hardie , Ned Freed Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) In-Reply-To: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Patrik, Thanks for putting this BOF together. PF> Where should the IETF tackle it? I am not sure I understand this question. Please clarify. PF> What are the next steps for the IETF? Would it help to have a draft charter for the meeting? (I realize that the presence of such different specifications makes a charter at least a bit challenging, but it seems to help to have a draft, to make things concrete.) d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking Sunnyvale, CA USA From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 11:09:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22444 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vd-0002kH-EP for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RG9DIb010547 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vd-0002k2-8S for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22346 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vX-0007Io-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vW-0007Ic-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vS-0002dH-MT; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADqzK-0007yx-Mj for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25679 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADqzH-0000DU-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:43 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADqzH-0000DD-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:55:43 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Oct 2003 20:53:10 +0100 Received: from xbe-ams-312.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9QJt4l0006339; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:04 +0100 (MET) Received: from xfe-ams-311.cisco.com ([144.254.228.204]) by xbe-ams-312.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:11 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([144.254.74.55]) by xfe-ams-311.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:10 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Pete Resnick , Ted Hardie , Ned Freed From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= Subject: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:55:08 +0100 To: ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2003 19:55:10.0612 (UTC) FILETIME=[101FC540:01C39BFB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the IETF in Minneapolis, there will be a BOF on Internationalized=20 Email Addresses (IEA). It is *preliminary* on the agenda on Monday, November 10, 2003 at=20 1530-1730. Chairs: Pete Resnick, Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m Mailing list:imaa@imc.org (other salient lists include uri@w3.org) Agenda: Agenda Bashing (Chairs) 5 min. Topic Introduction (Chairs) 10 min. Proposals IDNA-Based (Paul Hoffman) 15 min. Infrastructure-Based (John Klensin) 15 min. IRI-Based (Michel Suignard) 15 min. Discussion 60 min. Topics for discussion: Are there other solutions which have been specified? The solutions present the problem at different scopes; Where should the IETF tackle it? Are some short-term, and other long-term? Can the solutions be staged or co-exist? If staged, how to migrate from one to another? What are the next steps for the IETF? NB: This BoF is exploratory in nature, and it is not intended that the=20= IETF will finalize a decision in this venue. It was proposed to foster=20= a community discussion, not charter a working group or pick a winner.=20 If further work is required, step one would be identifying individuals=20= willing to carry that work forward. Reading material: draft-hoffman-imaa-03.txt draft-klensin-emailaddr-i18n-01.txt draft-duerst-iri-04.txt Pete and myself hope people will come with a lot of constructive=20 comments and ideas. Patrik, co-chair of the bof From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 11:59:14 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22415 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9va-0002jt-L5 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RG9ATg010522 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9va-0002jP-CA for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22337 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vX-0007Iq-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9vW-0007Id-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9vT-0002db-5q; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:09:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE9go-0000cq-72 for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21337 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9gl-0006zj-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:51 -0500 Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([160.36.56.50]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE9gl-0006zc-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812AC14142; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01580-02; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from astro.cs.utk.edu (astro.cs.utk.edu [160.36.58.43]) by smtp.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D86C14094; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:53:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:52:22 -0500 From: Keith Moore To: Dave Crocker Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, paf@cisco.com, ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org, presnick@qualcomm.com, hardie@qualcomm.com, ned.freed@mrochek.com Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) Message-Id: <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> In-Reply-To: <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and ClamAV at cs.utk.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > PF> What are the next steps for the IETF? > > Would it help to have a draft charter for the meeting? let's back up a step further. what problem are we trying to solve here? Keith From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 13:50:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29901 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRK-0002gZ-Ak for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RIo6Us010321 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRK-0002gO-0T for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29836 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRH-0001xI-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRH-0001xA-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRG-0002ce-5L; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEAjB-0007K4-Pi for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:00:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25116 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:00:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEAjA-0000Q9-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:00:24 -0500 Received: from panoramix.hexago.com ([209.71.226.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEAj9-0000Q6-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:00:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (retro.viagenie.qc.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:c18:3::22]) (authenticated bits=0) by panoramix.hexago.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9RH0M6r005886; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:00:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:00:01 -0500 From: Marc Blanchet To: Keith Moore , Dave Crocker cc: paf@cisco.com, ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org, presnick@qualcomm.com, hardie@qualcomm.com, ned.freed@mrochek.com Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) Message-ID: <575390000.1067274001@classic.viagenie.qc.ca> In-Reply-To: <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Monday, October 27, 2003 10:52:22 -0500 Keith Moore wrote/a ecrit: >> PF> What are the next steps for the IETF? >> >> Would it help to have a draft charter for the meeting? > > let's back up a step further. > > what problem are we trying to solve here? to me, that (problem we are trying to solve) would be part of the introduction in the charter... so I guess some initial proposal for: - what are we trying to solve - what would be the way to solve it would be a good starting point together with the "state-of-the-art" presentations. Marc. > > Keith ------------------------------------------ Marc Blanchet Hexago tel: +1-418-266-5533x225 ------------------------------------------ http://www.freenet6.net: IPv6 connectivity ------------------------------------------ From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 13:50:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29902 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRL-0002hK-Bb for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RIo71D010344 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRK-0002gh-Sn for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29839 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRI-0001xN-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRH-0001xD-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRI-0002dx-09; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECN2-00023g-99 for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29650 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECMz-0001tE-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:37 -0500 Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([160.36.56.50]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECMy-0001t9-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4301401D; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from klutz.cs.utk.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klutz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25223-11; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from astro.cs.utk.edu (astro.cs.utk.edu [160.36.58.43]) by smtp.cs.utk.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA6C13FEC; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:45:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:44:03 -0500 From: Keith Moore To: Mark Crispin Cc: moore@cs.utk.edu, dcrocker@brandenburg.com, paf@cisco.com, ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org, presnick@qualcomm.com, hardie@qualcomm.com, ned.freed@mrochek.com Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) Message-Id: <20031027134403.5eaaee9e.moore@cs.utk.edu> In-Reply-To: References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--netbsdelf) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and ClamAV at cs.utk.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Thanks for taking a stab at a problem statement. I'd like to drill down on this just a bit. What is the source of the "growing need"? Is it: a. for users of many languages (particularly those not using Latin alphabets) email addresses are difficult to remember b. for users of many languages (particularly those not using Latin alphabets) email addresses are difficult to transcribe or type c. users want to use their names in email addresses d. users are confused by apparently arbitrary restrictions on use of characters in email addresses, and this leads to mistakes e. on computer systems employing non-ASCII names for other purposes (e.g. login or account names) these do not map well to ASCII email addresses or something else that I don't see? > As presently constituted, email addresses are limited to the 26 Latin > alphabetics, 10 digits, and a limited number of special characters in > the ASCII character set. There is a growing need to use additional > characters, specifically Latin characters with diacriticals and > non-Latin characters, in email addresses to better serve the needs of > the multi-national Internet community. However, the restrictions of > ASCII email addresses have served as a "lingua franca" since everybody > can enter ASCII email addresses, and there is an ongoing need for this > as well. The problem to be solved is the resolution of these two > needs. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 13:50:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29903 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRL-0002hV-ER for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RIo770010358 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRK-0002gi-V2 for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29844 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRI-0001xU-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRH-0001xB-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRH-0002dH-0l; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEAw0-0000qf-5k for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:13:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25810 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:13:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEAvy-0000fp-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:13:38 -0500 Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu ([140.142.33.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEAvy-0000fk-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:13:38 -0500 Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu (shiva1.cac.washington.edu [140.142.100.201]) by mxout2.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9RHDThu011833; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:30 -0800 Received: from localhost (mrc@localhost) by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (8.12.10+UW03.09/8.12.10+UW03.09) with ESMTP id h9RHDTew015664; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:13:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin To: Keith Moore cc: Dave Crocker , paf@cisco.com, ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org, presnick@qualcomm.com, hardie@qualcomm.com, ned.freed@mrochek.com Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) In-Reply-To: <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> Message-ID: References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Keith Moore wrote: > what problem are we trying to solve here? I agree with Keith. This isn't to say that I dispute that there is a problem to be solved -- indeed, I think that the problem is apparent to all -- but we must have a problem statement that we all agree upon before we even think about solutions. I don't think that references to drafts of proposed solutions suffice as a problem statement. Leaving aside questions of possible bias (= present a problem in such a way that this is the obvious best solution), having the problem statement in a draft (which by its nature is an ephemeral document) muddies the issues. The problem statement should consist of a single paragraph (and preferably in one or two sentences), separate from any proposed solution, and stated in a charter which is approved by everyone. Here's a start at such a statement: As presently constituted, email addresses are limited to the 26 Latin alphabetics, 10 digits, and a limited number of special characters in the ASCII character set. There is a growing need to use additional characters, specifically Latin characters with diacriticals and non-Latin characters, in email addresses to better serve the needs of the multi-national Internet community. However, the restrictions of ASCII email addresses have served as a "lingua franca" since everybody can enter ASCII email addresses, and there is an ongoing need for this as well. The problem to be solved is the resolution of these two needs. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 13:50:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29944 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRP-0002kF-7Q for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RIoBTQ010545 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRO-0002k0-V2 for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29841 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRI-0001xT-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRH-0001xE-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRF-0002cV-E5; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEANY-0005K8-2P for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:38:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23953 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEANW-00001o-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:38:02 -0500 Received: from 216-43-25-66.ip.mcleodusa.net ([216.43.25.66] helo=episteme-software.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEANV-00000F-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:38:01 -0500 Received: from [216.43.25.67] (216.43.25.67) by episteme-software.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server X 3.2.3b1); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:37:25 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: resnick@resnick1.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> X-Mailer: Eudora [Macintosh version 6.1a2] Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:37:21 -0600 To: Keith Moore From: Pete Resnick Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) Cc: Dave Crocker , moore@cs.utk.edu, paf@cisco.com, ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org, hardie@qualcomm.com, ned.freed@mrochek.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On 10/27/03 at 10:52 AM -0500, Keith Moore wrote: >>DC: Would it help to have a draft charter for the meeting? As was mentioned in the draft agenda at , we want to simply start the discussion, not immediately attempt to charter a working group. >let's back up a step further. > >what problem are we trying to solve here? Please have a look at draft-hoffman-imaa, draft-klensin-emailaddr-i18n, and draft-duerst-iri. Certainly the first two have very explicit descriptions of the problem. pr -- Pete Resnick QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 14:39:16 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29897 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRL-0002hW-Eh for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RIo77W010366 for discuss-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRL-0002gj-3M for discuss-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29846 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRI-0001xV-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AECRH-0001xC-00 for discuss-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AECRH-0002dd-Eq; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEBCr-0002Hl-JU for discuss@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:31:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26545 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBCq-0000vM-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:31:04 -0500 Received: from p1.spindry.com ([64.5.41.83] helo=mx.spindry.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEBCp-0000vH-00 for discuss@apps.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:31:03 -0500 Received: from filenet-gw.filenet.com ([198.3.8.1] helo=ATTABOY.carpenter.ORG) by mx.spindry.com with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1AEBCg-0005Z8-00; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:30:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:30:46 -0800 Message-ID: <4027-Mon27Oct2003093046-0800-bill@carpenter.ORG> X-Mailer: 21.1 (patch 9) "Canyonlands" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 11-beta-2 I) wjc loop; VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 9) "Canyonlands" XEmacs Lucid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: bill-imc@carpenter.ORG (WJCarpenter) To: ietf-imaa@imc.org, idn@ops.ietf.org, ietf-822@imc.org, ietf@ietf.org, ietf-pop3ext@imc.org, lemonade@ietf.org, discuss@apps.ietf.org, ietf-imapext@imc.org, ietf-smtp@imc.org Subject: Re: FYI: BOF on Internationalized Email Addresses (IEA) In-Reply-To: References: <4CD48AD0-07EE-11D8-9C47-000A959CF516@cisco.com> <12228881609.20031027074111@brandenburg.com> <20031027105222.4eae54fd.moore@cs.utk.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: discuss-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: discuss-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: discuss@apps.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: general discussion of application-layer protocols List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mc> As presently constituted, email addresses are limited to the 26 mc> Latin alphabetics, 10 digits, and a limited number of special mc> characters in the ASCII character set. There is a growing need to upper and lower case alphabetics -- bill-imc@carpenter.ORG (WJCarpenter) PGP 0x91865119 38 95 1B 69 C9 C6 3D 25 73 46 32 04 69 D6 ED F3