Subject: [dispatch] Proposed charter for CELLAR: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission

From: Tessa Fallon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:49:07 -0400

After presenting on FFV1 and Matroska at IETF 94 this past summer, we have
incorporated feedback and input from IETF members to draft a new charter
for a proposed working group that includes FFV1, Matroska, and FLAC.

I look forward to discussing the proposed charter, which is included below.

Best wishes,

Tessa Fallon
*_________________*

*Proposed Name*: CELLAR: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime
transmission

The preservation of audiovisual materials faces challenges from
technological obsolescence, analog media deterioration, and the use of
proprietary formats that lack formal open standards. While obsolescence and
material degradation are widely addressed, the standardization of open,
transparent, self-descriptive, lossless formats remains an important
mission to be undertaken by the open source community.

FFV1 is a lossless video codec and Matroska is an extensible media
container based on EBML (Extensible Binary Meta Language), a binary XML
format. There are open source implementations of both formats, and an
increasing interest in and support for use of FFV1 and Matroska. However,
there are concerns about the sustainability and credibility of existing
specifications for the long-term use of these formats. These existing
specifications require broader review and formalization in order to
encourage widespread adoption.

There is also a need for a lossless audio format to complement the lossless
video codec and container format. FLAC is a lossless audio codec that has
seen widespread adoption in a number of different applications
including archival
applications. While there are open source implementations of the codec, no
formal standards for either the codec itself or its use in container
formats currently exist. Review and formalization of the FLAC codec
standard and its use in Matroska container formats is needed for wider
adoption.

Using existing work done by the development communities of Matroska, FFV1,
and FLAC, the Working Group will formalize specifications for these open
and lossless formats. In order to provide authoritative, standardized
specifications for users and developers, the Working Group will seek
consensus throughout the process of refining and formalizing these
standards. Existing specifications can be accessed here:

Specifications:
FFV1: https://mediaarea.net/temp/ffv1.html
Matroska: http://matroska.org/technical/specs/index.html
EBML: http://matroska-org.github.io/libebml/specs.html
FLAC: https://xiph.org/flac/format.html

Development Versions:
FFV1: https://github.com/ffmpeg/ffv1
Matroska:
https://github.com/Matroska-Org/foundation-source/blob/master/spectool/specdata.xml
EBML: https://github.com/Matroska-Org/ebml-specification

The Working Group will seek consensus and refinements for specifications
for both FFV1 and Matroska in order to provide authoritative, standardized
specifications for users and developers. Backward compatibility with
existing versions 0-3 of the FFV1 and Matroska specifications will be an
important goal, while also reviewing and refining the current version 4
under active development. Although not encouraged, non-backwards-compatible
changes to the input specifications will be acceptable if the Working Group
determines that the modifications are required to meet the group's
technical objectives, provided that the reasons for these changes are
clearly documented.

*Deliverables:*

   - Informational specification for Matroska container format versions 1,
   2 and 3 to IESG for publication

   - Standards Track specification for Matroska container format version 4
   to IESG for publication

   - Informational specification for FFV1 video codec versions 0, 1 and 3
   to IESG for publication

   - Standards Track specification for FFV1 video codec version 4 to IESG
   for publication

   - Standards Track specification for FLAC audio codec to IESG for
   publication

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:56:22 -0500

I support creation of a working group with this set of goals, for the 
reasons stated in the proposed charter's first paragraph. I have no 
suggestions for improvements.

/a

On 9/8/15 09:49, Tessa Fallon wrote:
> After presenting on FFV1 and Matroska at IETF 94 this past summer, we 
> have incorporated feedback and input from IETF members to draft a new 
> charter for a proposed working group that includes FFV1, Matroska, and 
> FLAC.
>
> /_________________/
> /
> /
> /Proposed Name/: CELLAR: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and 
> Realtime transmission
> proprietary formats that lack formal open standards. While 
> obsolescence and material degradation are widely addressed, the 
> standardization of open, transparent, self-descriptive, lossless 
> formats remains an important mission to be undertaken by the open 
> source community.
> container based on EBML (Extensible Binary Meta Language), a binary 
> XML format. There are open source implementations of both formats, and 
> an increasing interest in and support for use of FFV1 and Matroska. 
> However, there are concerns about the sustainability and credibility 
> of existing specifications for the long-term use of these formats. 
> These existing specifications require broader review and formalization 
> in order to encourage widespread adoption.
> There is also a need for a lossless audio format to complement the 
> lossless video codec and container format. FLAC is a lossless audio 
> codec that has seen widespread adoption in a number of different 
> applications includingarchival applications. While there are open 
> source implementations of the codec, no formal standards for either 
> the codec itself or its use in container formats currently exist. 
> Review and formalization of the FLAC codec standard and its use in 
> Matroska container formats is needed for wider adoption.
> Using existing work done by the development communities of Matroska, 
> FFV1, and FLAC, the Working Group will formalize specifications for 
> these open and lossless formats. In order to provide authoritative, 
> standardized specifications for users and developers, the Working 
> Group will seek consensus throughout the process of refining and 
> formalizing these standards. Existing specifications can be accessed here:
> Specifications:
> The Working Group will seek consensus and refinements for 
> specifications for both FFV1 and Matroska in order to provide 
> authoritative, standardized specifications for users and developers. 
> Backward compatibility with existing versions 0-3 of the FFV1 and 
> Matroska specifications will be an important goal, while also 
> reviewing and refining the current version 4 under active development. 
> Although not encouraged, non-backwards-compatible changes to the input 
> specifications will be acceptable if the Working Group determines that 
> the modifications are required to meet the group's technical 
> objectives, provided that the reasons for these changes are clearly 
> documented.
> *Deliverables:*
>
>   * Informational specification for Matroska container format versions
>     1, 2 and 3 to IESG for publication
>
>   * Standards Track specification for Matroska container format
>     version 4 to IESG for publication
>
>   * Informational specification for FFV1 video codec versions 0, 1 and
>     3 to IESG for publication
>
>   * Standards Track specification for FFV1 video codec version 4 to
>     IESG for publication
>
>   * Standards Track specification for FLAC audio codec to IESG for
>     publication
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dispatch mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch

---

From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:25:17 -0700

> suggestions for improvements.

+1

---

From: Michael Niedermayer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 17:43:59 +0200

On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 09:56:22AM -0500, Adam Roach wrote:
> I support creation of a working group with this set of goals, for
> the reasons stated in the proposed charter's first paragraph. I have
> no suggestions for improvements.

+1

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

It is what and why we do it that matters, not just one of them.

---

From: Steve Lhomme <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:43:07 +0200

Same here, I support the creation of this working group.

-- 
Steve Lhomme
Matroska association Chairman

---

From: Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 05:06:56 -0700

I support the creation of this wg