From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Mon Feb 3 01:24:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEE61A019B for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 01:24:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DqqJHH0PT-Gn for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 01:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E731A0170 for ; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 01:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id s139O8Uh010660; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:24:08 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F7042021DE; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:24:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0376E2021CB; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:24:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id s139O4gH014968; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:24:07 +0100 Message-ID: <52EF6034.4030702@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 10:24:04 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h chan , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <52E2A30A.1020705@innovationslab.net> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EB62E@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> <52E90898.6050604@innovationslab.net> <52EB8CA4.9020200@gmail.com> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EBAFD@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EBAFD@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [DMM] AD Evaluation: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 09:24:22 -0000 Le 01/02/2014 01:13, h chan a écrit : > Alex, There are some examples in the motivation following REQ6. Do > you think the rouge route example is included in the "redirecting > traffic from its legitimate path" or should it be added as a separate > example? Thanks for the remark, I didnt know that. Please see some comments below. IMHO, it would be good to see first sentences about the particular DMM risks, and maybe following risks which are relevant to other protocols more generally. > REQ6: Security considerations > > A DMM solution MUST NOT introduce new security risks, or amplify > existing security risks, that cannot be mitigated by existing > security mechanisms or protocols. Generic. > Motivation: Various attacks such as impersonation, denial of service, > man-in-the-middle attacks, and so on, may be launched in a DMM > deployment. Generic. > For instance, an illegitimate node may attempt to access a network > providing DMM. GEneric - it relates to access control, EAP and AAA. > Another example is that a malicious node can forge a number of > signaling messages thus redirecting traffic from its legitimate path. Right. But in addition, in the case of a PMIP-like solution (or route updates with BGP) it may be that the mobile node does not forge anything, but some fixed nodes running PMIP or BGP are attacked by some BGP or PMIP specific attackers maybe from far away. Would we be concerned by such risks? Should we list them? > Consequently, the specific node is under a denial of service attack, > whereas other nodes do not receive their traffic. Accordingly, > security mechanisms/protocols providing access control, integrity, > authentication, authorization, confidentiality, etc. can be used to > protect the DMM entities as they are already used to protect against > existing networks and existing mobility protocols defined in IETF. I agree. Alex > This requirement prevents a DMM solution from introducing > uncontrollable problems of potentially insecure mobility management > protocols which make deployment infeasible because platforms > conforming to the protocols are at risk for data loss and numerous > other dangers, including financial harm to the users. > > H Anthony Chan > > -----Original Message----- From: dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 5:45 AM > To: dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] AD Evaluation: > draft-ietf-dmm-requirements > > Le 31/01/2014 00:18, Jouni Korhonen a écrit : >> >> On Jan 29, 2014, at 5:56 AM, Brian Haberman >> wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >>> >>> The above seems a little clunky. Does this work for everyone? >>> >>> >>> A DMM solution MUST NOT introduce new security risks, or amplify >>> existing security risks, that cannot be mitigated by existing >>> security mechanisms or protocols. >> >> >> Would work for me. > > To me this is too hig-level. > > IT's a good principle that we apply everywhere and it works. > > But I wonder there is some detail about it. > > Like for example: any new DMM solution involving route updates will > not allow rogue routes to be inserted in the system. > > Alex > >> >> - Jouni >> >> >>> >>> >>> Regards, Brian >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list >> dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Feb 3 06:52:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B50C1A011F; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 06:52:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[none] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kV52O07sHIyh; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 06:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4716B1A0131; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 06:52:43 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.0.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <20140203145243.32525.80191.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 06:52:43 -0800 Cc: dmm@ietf.org Subject: [DMM] Last Call: (Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 14:52:44 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Distributed Mobility Management WG (dmm) to consider the following document: - 'Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management' as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2014-02-17. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines the requirements for Distributed Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to centralized deployment models. As some wireless networks are evolving away from the hierarchical structure, a distributed model for mobility management can be useful to them. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Feb 3 14:36:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18221A0281; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 14:36:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gp_T4Mye5jef; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 14:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02501A0273; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 14:36:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.0.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140203223641.24604.31673.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 14:36:41 -0800 Cc: dmm@ietf.org Subject: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 22:36:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Distributed Mobility Management Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management Authors : H Anthony Chan Dapeng Liu Pierrick Seite Hidetoshi Yokota Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2014-02-03 Abstract: This document defines the requirements for Distributed Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to centralized deployment models. As some wireless networks are evolving away from the hierarchical structure, a distributed model for mobility management can be useful to them. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Tue Feb 4 01:28:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA39B1A03D0 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 01:28:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yIZbyb6t-RDc for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 01:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1510F1A03C7 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 01:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id s149S9Lr001055 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 10:28:09 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id BE8E2202830 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 10:28:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5954202800 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 10:28:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id s149S8EP021640 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 10:28:09 +0100 Message-ID: <52F0B2A9.5080108@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 10:28:09 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dmm@ietf.org" References: <20140203223641.24604.31673.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140203223641.24604.31673.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 09:28:13 -0000 Thanks for this new version. A comment: > Mobility support is also needed, for example, when a mobile router > moves together with a host and an application in the host is > interrupted by a change of IP address of the mobile router. ^and presence of ingress filtering. Alex Le 03/02/2014 23:36, internet-drafts@ietf.org a écrit : > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. This draft is a work item of the Distributed Mobility > Management Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management > Authors : H Anthony Chan Dapeng Liu Pierrick Seite Hidetoshi > Yokota Jouni Korhonen Filename : > draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Pages : 19 Date > : 2014-02-03 > > Abstract: This document defines the requirements for Distributed > Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical > structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to > centralized deployment models. As some wireless networks are > evolving away from the hierarchical structure, a distributed model > for mobility management can be useful to them. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing > list I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft > directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > From jouni.nospam@gmail.com Tue Feb 4 04:25:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152641A03C1 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 04:25:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rBp32TKs56kB for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 04:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x22c.google.com (mail-lb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71101A0383 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2014 04:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id c11so6440309lbj.3 for ; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 04:25:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :cc:to:mime-version; bh=VdIYj7vh8W9wuaR4eDvqUUx32s/5DyRHZw6dtnDPB3U=; b=EkucrGkEyHx4jmj7s/jtIfQHfQYO0LqMP6opdtAWPybqF8cHZaC3qgKk/plhAG2hzT 4FOByrxNS9WFyph2qtH7978S3VvvIkI4WJCMweubK2vdYRxHw9tQIqzy5KGh5NswY65w eSBscW1FCJFM+owcjqYCm62qWtztouliZ4WGvFWizFP0PohE/ySbXo3x/WGknOm1hrBn LfuqoyiTN1oPg8bgNU20D8av6852JAhh1TFN3RhHfZHwBHxy1Cvr6R6gEE9BkkvMl+DP Or565XSUQxK6Un23lIH70ix8jyqOyNlX5YBWvcXn1NXGhtSBXgaHHMSZkF1yuKuDFatq wcFg== X-Received: by 10.152.120.37 with SMTP id kz5mr6096936lab.30.1391516730939; Tue, 04 Feb 2014 04:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:6e8:480:60:df9:2a53:6fef:a8e8? ([2001:6e8:480:60:df9:2a53:6fef:a8e8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ya9sm7741410lbb.2.2014.02.04.04.25.30 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Feb 2014 04:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jouni Korhonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:25:30 +0200 Message-Id: <8287342D-95B1-4F89-A2C3-A4BAC111671C@gmail.com> To: "dmm@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: Dapeng Liu Subject: [DMM] DMM London meeting X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:25:34 -0000 Folks, London IETF is getting closer and it is time to get up with the meeting agenda. We will, of course, spend time on the current working group documents and trying to figure out what to do next. If you feel like presenting something and need a time slot just email the chairs with the topic + time wish you have in mind. We are tentatively scheduled for 2h slot on Wednesday Afternoon Session I. - Jouni & Dapeng From cjbc@it.uc3m.es Tue Feb 11 12:46:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9681A073C for ; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:46:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w42Y6Vf4L_NA for ; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp03.uc3m.es (smtp03.uc3m.es [163.117.176.133]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C881A0732 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp03.uc3m.es (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.uc3m.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F08C9D708B; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:46:05 +0100 (CET) X-uc3m-safe: yes X-uc3m-safe: yes Received: from [163.117.139.224] (unknown [163.117.139.224]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: cjbc@smtp03.uc3m.es) by smtp03.uc3m.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 075F89D704E; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:46:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <1392151564.4016.126.camel@acorde.it.uc3m.es> From: Carlos =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Bernardos Cano To: "dmm@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:46:04 +0100 Organization: Universidad Carlos III de Madrid Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.8.5-2+b1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1224-7.5.0.1017-20496.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--4.400-7.0-31-1 X-imss-scan-details: No--4.400-7.0-31-1 Cc: odmm@odmm.net, Fabio Giust Subject: [DMM] Open DMM has been released! X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: cjbc@it.uc3m.es List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:46:11 -0000 Hi guys, We are happy to announce the public release of Open DMM, a platform meant to host open source DMM implementations and related efforts. You can go to our web site and start enjoying from real DMM code :D http://odmm.net/ So far, a network-based DMM solution is available (the one used in the demos we performed in Paris and Berlin IETFs), but the idea is to release soon also a client-based one. The platform is open to other people to contribute. There are already some mailing lists you can subscribe to to stay up-to-date on ODMM news. We will also provide github support soon. Thanks! Fabio and Carlos From nobody Thu Feb 13 15:36:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 137BA1A0522 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:36:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dFxXwh9hBmfa for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:36:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8B61A0408 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BBC24509; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 23:36:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 23:35:53 +0000 Received: from SZXEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.91) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 13 Feb 2014 23:35:56 +0000 Received: from szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.240]) by szxeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.91]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 07:35:51 +0800 From: h chan To: Alexandru Petrescu , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Thread-Index: AQHPIYt8iRmvWHJtnU2nimjHU+UGJ5qz4QkQ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 23:35:50 +0000 Message-ID: <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BF@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <20140203223641.24604.31673.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <52F0B2A9.5080108@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52F0B2A9.5080108@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BFszxeml557mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/BPbRhSP7HoIK-ZN3xl0TGJA5dHU Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 23:36:18 -0000 --_000_6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BFszxeml557mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alex, Thanks for spelling out the conditions more accurately. Just to confirm whe= ther the addition the text in red as in the following is needed for accurac= y reasons. May I ask whether we can alternatively assume that ingress filtering should= always not be prevented. Then when the red text is missing as in version 1= 4, is that still incorrect or it needs to be corrected? REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility but it MUST be possible to not use it. Mobility support is needed, for example, when a mobile host moves and an application cannot cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility support is also needed, for example, when a mobile router moves together with a host and an application in the host is interrupted by a change of IP address of the mobile router and the presence of ingress filtering. However mobility support at the network-layer is not always needed; a mobile node can often be stationary, and mobility support can also be provided at other layers. It is then not always necessary to maintain a stable IP address or prefix. H Anthony Chan -----Original Message----- From: dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:28 AM To: dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Thanks for this new version. A comment: > Mobility support is also needed, for example, when a mobile router > moves together with a host and an application in the host is > interrupted by a change of IP address of the mobile router. ^and presence = of ingress filtering. Alex Le 03/02/2014 23:36, internet-drafts@ietf.org a =E9crit : > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. This draft is a work item of the Distributed Mobility > Management Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management > Authors : H Anthony Chan Dapeng Liu Pierrick Seite Hidetoshi > Yokota Jouni Korhonen Filename : > draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Pages : 19 Date > : 2014-02-03 > > Abstract: This document defines the requirements for Distributed > Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical > structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to > centralized deployment models. As some wireless networks are evolving > away from the hierarchical structure, a distributed model for mobility > management can be useful to them. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing > list I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft > directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BFszxeml557mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Alex,

 

Thanks for spelling out the conditions more accur= ately. Just to confirm whether the addition the text in red as in the follo= wing is needed for accuracy reasons.  

 

May I ask whether we can alternatively assume tha= t ingress filtering should always not be prevented. Then when the red text = is missing as in version 14, is that still incorrect or it needs to be corr= ected?

 

REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support

DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility = but it MUST

be possible to not use it. Mobility support is ne= eded, for

example, when a mobile host moves and an applicat= ion cannot

cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility su= pport is

also needed, for example, when a mobile router mo= ves together

with a host and an application in the host is int= errupted by a

change of IP address of the mobile router

and the presence of ing= ress filtering.

However mobility

support at the network-layer is not always needed= ; a mobile

node can often be stationary, and mobility suppor= t can also be

provided at other layers. It is then not always n= ecessary to

maintain a stable IP address or prefix.

 

H Anthony Chan

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:28 AM
To: dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt

 

Thanks for this new version.

 

A comment:

 

> Mobility support is also needed, for example= , when a mobile router

> moves together with a host and an applicatio= n in the host is

> interrupted by a change of IP address of the= mobile router.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;  ^and presence of ingress filtering.

 

Alex

 

 

 

Le 03/02/2014 23:36, internet-drafts@ietf.= org a =E9crit :

> 

> A New Internet-Draft is available from the o= n-line Internet-Drafts

> directories. This draft is a work item of th= e Distributed Mobility

> Management Working Group of the IETF.

> 

> Title      &nb= sp;    : Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management

> Authors      &= nbsp;  : H Anthony Chan Dapeng Liu Pierrick Seite Hidetoshi=

> Yokota Jouni Korhonen Filename  &n= bsp;     :

> draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Pages&nbs= p;          : 19 Date

> : 2014-02-03

> 

> Abstract: This document defines the requirem= ents for Distributed

> Mobility Management (DMM) at the network lay= er.  The hierarchical

> structure in traditional wireless networks h= as led primarily to

> centralized deployment models.  As some= wireless networks are evolving

> away from the hierarchical structure, a dist= ributed model for mobility

> management can be useful to them.=

> 

> 

> 

> The IETF datatracker status page for this dr= aft is:

> https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/

> 

> There's also a htmlized version available at= :

> http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14

> 

> A diff from the previous version is availabl= e at:

> http://www.ietf.org/r= fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14

> 

> 

> Please note that it may take a couple of min= utes from the time of

> submission until the htmlized version and di= ff are available at

> tools.ietf.org.

> 

> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonym= ous FTP at:

> ftp://ftp.ietf.or= g/internet-drafts/

> 

> ____________________________________________= ___ I-D-Announce mailing

> list I-D-Announce@ietf.o= rg

> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft

> directories: http://www.ietf.org/s= hadow.html or

> ftp://ftp.i= etf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

> 

> 

 

 

_______________________________________________

dmm mailing list

dmm@ietf.org

https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

--_000_6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BFszxeml557mbxchi_-- From nobody Fri Feb 14 10:45:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCA41A0359; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:45:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O535ss6IAC_O; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1EE1A02D0; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:45:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.0.0.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140214184528.30120.70550.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:45:28 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/U-D16Ge3kZJPkYHs3NfQrmLEmoA Cc: dmm@ietf.org Subject: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 18:45:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Distributed Mobility Management Working Group of the IETF. Title : Distributed Mobility Management: Current practices and gap analysis Authors : Dapeng Liu Juan Carlos Zuniga Pierrick Seite H Anthony Chan Carlos J. Bernardos Filename : draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2014-02-14 Abstract: The present document analyzes deployment practices of existing IP mobility protocols in a distributed mobility management environment. It then identifies existing limitations when compared to the requirements defined for a distributed mobility management solution. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Feb 17 10:08:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48321A04D2 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:08:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t8XKcl1CSQco for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x229.google.com (mail-la0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33C01A022E for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id mc6so11724971lab.0 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:08:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:references :to:message-id:mime-version; bh=XBgPs5KkSiGa4ILkeGhhDaBslBVLhTFDXm+4zH+/4ko=; b=nTuy64Fygp017Hlu5hOWKHLtHNa9sSJZDCLTHSWJG9sRcnf/sjgH5botzS4+0XL4A0 H2yMJceuX9RsNvM0Cuoe0cR1PJrVGiYdoAQqRLvmpel0cNy6H1c4QDsU3u+Yg6CJs7Wv BIuYjSZTWAudAfGXJnePHfkUy+H4rLHml4PKPNfAxRQR7bCo8/ow30qTqH0w2AaZiHrI VqEhP43DoT+XbCluv7HkdOG/WeYy5BYLEosD8wgwFF7THCxfp0M7HVRsFMmP0LtYhGYl FdQkJcSCmbDTqtAa1NQAYCsJa0j3LmVjWwDI4zQSEe+50wvzPnP8rXMTraUdfYopJn+B j9nw== X-Received: by 10.152.180.4 with SMTP id dk4mr2467494lac.49.1392660504430; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.250.202] ([194.100.71.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gb8sm19842254lbc.13.2014.02.17.10.08.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:08:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jouni Korhonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 20:08:21 +0200 References: <20140217180430.9955.24561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "dmm@ietf.org" Message-Id: <1CC58BC1-C4FF-4180-B387-FF5B217AE73C@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/4EnlsId1uIYTNZ2K_-Jyl4r9OC4 Subject: [DMM] Fwd: Tags changed for draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:08:30 -0000 Folks, As you can read, I think it is time to push our second document into WGLC. We'll do that immediately after the IETF#89, since no one is going to do WGLC review immediately prior and during IETF. - Jouni Begin forwarded message: > > The tags on draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis have been changed > by Jouni Korhonen: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis/ > > Tag "Other - see Comment Log" added. > > > > Comment: > Will got to WGLC after IETF#89. From nobody Wed Feb 19 07:04:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957B71A01DE for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:04:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Qk98sJ7X8vM for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B676F1A01D4 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id s1JF3WbU003517; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:03:32 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E589202B65; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:04:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618302026B4; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:04:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id s1JF3S1m008846; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:03:32 +0100 Message-ID: <5304C7C0.8040302@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 16:03:28 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h chan , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <20140203223641.24604.31673.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <52F0B2A9.5080108@gmail.com> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BF@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BF@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/aiycCzG3B2Eu_3YcvmEY1p_etl8 Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:04:14 -0000 H Anthony, > REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support > > DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility but it MUST > > be possible to not use it. Mobility support is needed, for > > example, when a mobile host moves and an application cannot > > cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility support is > > also needed, for example, when a mobile router moves together > > with a host and an application in the host is interrupted by a > > change of IP address of the mobile router > > and the presence of ingress filtering. Sounds good, technically. Since this is already a long phrase maybe we could detail it further, and then later make it better, or separate. How about this: > Distributed Mobility Management support is also needed, for example, > when a Mobile Router moves together with a Host and an application > running in the Host (LFN) is disturbed by the change of address of > the Mobile Router. Specifically, the incoming packets towards the > Host may be blocked at a Router in the path from the CN, or may be > taking a longer path through the Home Agent (in case Mobile IP is > used); an application sending packets from the Host may be blocked by > the ingress filtering potentially set in the access network, or may > take a longer path through the Home Agent (in case Mobile IP is > used). What do you think? Alex Alex > > However mobility > > support at the network-layer is not always needed; a mobile > > node can often be stationary, and mobility support can also be > > provided at other layers. It is then not always necessary to > > maintain a stable IP address or prefix. Le 14/02/2014 00:35, h chan a écrit : > Alex, > > Thanks for spelling out the conditions more accurately. Just to > confirm whether the addition the text in red as in the following is > needed for accuracy reasons. > > May I ask whether we can alternatively assume that ingress filtering > should always not be prevented. Then when the red text is missing as > in version 14, is that still incorrect or it needs to be corrected? > > REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support > > DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility but it MUST > > be possible to not use it. Mobility support is needed, for > > example, when a mobile host moves and an application cannot > > cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility support is > > also needed, for example, when a mobile router moves together > > with a host and an application in the host is interrupted by a > > change of IP address of the mobile router > > and the presence of ingress filtering. > > However mobility > > support at the network-layer is not always needed; a mobile > > node can often be stationary, and mobility support can also be > > provided at other layers. It is then not always necessary to > > maintain a stable IP address or prefix. > > H Anthony Chan > > -----Original Message----- From: dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:28 > AM To: dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt > > Thanks for this new version. > > A comment: > >> Mobility support is also needed, for example, when a mobile router > >> moves together with a host and an application in the host is > >> interrupted by a change of IP address of the mobile router. > > ^and presence of ingress filtering. > > Alex > > Le 03/02/2014 23:36, internet-drafts@ietf.org > a écrit : > >> > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >> directories. This draft is a work item of the Distributed Mobility > >> Management Working Group of the IETF. > >> > >> Title : Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management > >> Authors : H Anthony Chan Dapeng Liu Pierrick Seite >> Hidetoshi > >> Yokota Jouni Korhonen Filename : > >> draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Pages : 19 Date > >> : 2014-02-03 > >> > >> Abstract: This document defines the requirements for Distributed > >> Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical > >> structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to > >> centralized deployment models. As some wireless networks are >> evolving > >> away from the hierarchical structure, a distributed model for >> mobility > >> management can be useful to them. > >> > >> > >> > >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ > >> > >> There's also a htmlized version available at: > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > >> > >> A diff from the previous version is available at: > >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > >> > >> > >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >> tools.ietf.org. > >> > >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce >> mailing > >> list I-D-Announce@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft > >> directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > From nobody Wed Feb 19 09:27:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19C81A0556 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:27:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MX-o_owo6smO for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:27:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x22a.google.com (mail-vc0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A03E1A04FF for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id hu8so717937vcb.15 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=epHPqIxq63zK+vHRPRwcX8BqHvjg/jRSviLdiBLWfgo=; b=doxPDvcHVtmColF6XNXj1YmzOfHUcAxdQcVPH21ObMzMueXFMaeLTpz28D4SV28Arr 0/NH/C+fAATYaGvlMRyUfgpnCaZGjyfjLzTmyAkZoqPYoq2KvZ8a2vknCd07mF/FPLdK IwsJmDWJTC+AC0ML2mTkacPaPzQaNpFyHYxqybHQnlD7CXW7BNo/z3zTbeerF/b7/uD2 b0ykQT/oSVi0iM5kdzmaFYgCDVSMphMLj+7wkhkQkvyph1brpOLwVPGcabPPQQqVD219 4TnEQyr63zcBf9FeMZiaFhQERbuls+In1vJBtg7cKucFCYcsnXsIPAqcH5VuymEPbmqZ OP2w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.29.196 with SMTP id rz4mr26194842vcb.8.1392830872692; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.24.146 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 01:27:52 +0800 Message-ID: From: Liu Dapeng To: dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133a1c0662be304f2c5b5ee Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/VONS5Xc0OI7NRg9_K-gyKgKo0ao Subject: [DMM] DMM Agenda X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 17:27:58 -0000 --001a1133a1c0662be304f2c5b5ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello All, Here is the draft agenda for DMM@ietf89: WEDNESDAY, March 5, 2014; DMM WG IETF 89: 120 min ************************************************************************ Chairs: 13:00 o Agenda and WG update 5 min WG documents: 13:05 o draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-gap-analysis 20 min - Heading to WGLC Individual documents: 13:25 o draft-liu-dmm-deployment-scenario 15 min (Anthony Chan) 13:40 o ODMM: DMM Open Source Implementation Introduction 5 min (Carlos J. Bernardos) Other WG matters: 13:45 o Rechartering discussion 15:00 o End of meeting -------------- Dapeng & Jouni --001a1133a1c0662be304f2c5b5ee Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All,

Here is the draft= agenda for DMM@ietf89:

WEDNESDAY, March= 5, 2014; DMM WG IETF 89: 120 min
*************************= ***********************************************
Chairs:

13:00 =A0 =A0 =A0o Agenda and WG upda= te =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05 min=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
WG documents:
=A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
13:05 =A0 =A0 =A0o draft-ietf-dmm-best-practices-= gap-analysis =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 20 min
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Heading to WGLC

= Individual documents:

13:25 =A0 =A0 =A0o draft-liu= -dmm-deployment-scenario =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A015 min
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(Anthony Chan)

13:40 =A0 =A0 =A0o ODMM: DMM Open Source Implementation= Introduction =A0 =A0 5 min
(Carlos J. Bernardos)

Other WG= matters:

13:45 =A0 =A0 =A0o Rechartering discussion

15:00 =A0 =A0 =A0o End of meeting
--------------

Dapeng & Jouni
--001a1133a1c0662be304f2c5b5ee-- From nobody Thu Feb 20 23:19:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F831A0461 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:19:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id my7uBGenjHAf for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9761A0460 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BBI80744; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:18:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:18:40 +0000 Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:18:55 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.75]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:18:45 +0800 From: "Xiongchunshan (Sam)" To: "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM]MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks Thread-Index: Ac8u04znYlU2gVNLTym2PKgjhkjjEQAAXLOQ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:18:44 +0000 Message-ID: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.64.75] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49nkgeml507mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/VvmECqcowiUCx6NrLskXPCLlK5Y Subject: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:19:09 -0000 --_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49nkgeml507mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello folks, Here I have some comments on this document: 1) 5.2 Traffic mediation (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows should be considered. (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine- grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed. For instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for a un-prioritized VoIP service. [xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the binding = information between the IP and RAT ? The mobile node knows which IP is all= ocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the MPTCP Proxy in the core = network to know these mapping information. One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide these bi= nding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy performance the tra= ffic mediation or let the mobile to do the traffic mediation. Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP") ar= e provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP proxy, it is ag= ain the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ? 2) 4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense Due to its low construction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been adopted by mobile operators as a complementary RAT for their traditional 3GPP networks. However, different construction and operation expenses of various radio networks result in differences in charging rates/policies for different RATs. For instance, Wi-Fi access may be charged by the access duration, while the 3GPP access may be charged by the consumed data volume. Even if using the same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much cheaper than 3GPP data service. Moreover, different subscription packages may offer various data plans for various RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may contain free data volume as well free Wi-Fi access too. By enabling MPTCP session between UE and network proxy, via mediating sub-flow data traffic based on their Radio access types and the user's subscription package, it is possible to further reduce the usage expenses from both sides of the network and user. [xcs] it will benefit the user if the user's expense of data usage is reduc= ed, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is very low, maybe= all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by the MPTCP proxy, and = the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren't ensured, so it is proposed= to adding the following sentence to the end of this chapter: The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still kept = when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user's usage expenses. A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection is activ= ated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn't activated or a wro= ng WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP Proxy can't access the WiFi = IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to control the MPTCP Proxy to= mediate the IP flows, another hand, the network should tell the mobile to = open which RAT/WiFi to make the MPTCP Proxy work. i.e. the network should = provide some information to the UE , to guide the UE to select and open ano= ther RAT to enable the MPTCP. 3) 4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information For real-time interactive services with higher QoS requirements it is expected that 3GPP network can provide better guarantees on the average case. For bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best- effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to implement adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource utility with ever changing radio environment for a possibly moving terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, AP's signal intensity, user's subscription type, etc. [xcs]The same question from 1): How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the netwo= rk status ? The PCRF/ANDSF provides these information to the MPTCP Proxy/UE= ? BRs Chunshan Xiong Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. --_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49nkgeml507mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello folks,<= /p>

 

Here I have some comments on th= is document:

 

1)

5.2  Traffic mediation

   (a) Anchoring of s= ub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always

   possible for a sin= gle GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow

   from a MPTCP sessi= on, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a

   single point of ge= neral control over MPTCP sub-flows should be

   considered.

   (b) Mediation of s= ub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine-

   grained mediation = of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic

   selection/offloadi= ng/pooling policies should be allowed. For

   instance, "al= ways prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy

   for bulk data tran= sfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup

   unless Wi-Fi is co= ngested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for a<= /p>

   un-prioritized VoI= P service.

[xcs]Question for clarification= : How does the MPTCP proxy know the binding information between the IP and = RAT ?  The mobile node knows which IP is allocated from which RAT, but= it is very hard for the MPTCP Proxy in the core network to know these mapping information.

One possible solution is the PC= RF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide these binding information to the MPTCP = proxy if the MPTCP proxy performance the traffic mediation or let the mobil= e to do the traffic mediation.

 

Another question is how the rul= es (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP") are provided to the MPT= CP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP proxy, it is again the PCRF; for the= mobile , it is the ANDSF ?

 

 

2)

4.2 Resource pooling for reduce= d expense

   Due to its low con= struction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been

   adopted by mobile = operators as a complementary RAT for their

   traditional 3GPP n= etworks. However, different construction and

   operation expenses= of various radio networks result in differences in

   charging rates/pol= icies for different RATs.

   For instance, Wi-F= i access may be charged by the access duration,

   while the 3GPP acc= ess may be charged by the consumed data volume.

   Even if using the = same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much

   cheaper than 3GPP = data service.

   Moreover, differen= t subscription packages may offer various data

   plans for various = RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may contain

   free data volume a= s well free Wi-Fi access too.

   By enabling MPTCP = session between UE and network proxy, via mediating

   sub-flow data traf= fic based on their Radio access types and the

   user’s subsc= ription package, it is possible to further reduce the

   usage expenses fro= m both sides of the network and user.

 

[xcs] it will benefit the user = if the user’s expense of data usage is reduced, if the WiFi connectio= n is available and charging fee is very low, maybe all the traffic from the= 4G are moved to the WiFi by the MPTCP proxy, and the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren’t ensured, so it = is proposed to adding the following sentence to the end of this chapter:

The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still kep= t when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user’s usage expenses.

 

A assumption for reducing user = expense is that the WiFi connection is activated beforehand, but sometimes = the WiFi connection isn’t activated or a wrong WiFi AP is selected by= the user( that MPTCP Proxy can’t access the WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to control the MPTCP Pr= oxy to mediate the IP flows, another hand, the network should tell the mobi= le to open which RAT/WiFi to make the MPTCP Proxy work.  i.e. the netw= ork should provide some information to the UE , to guide the UE to select and open another RAT to enable the MPTC= P.

 

 

3)

4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading = based on network information

   For real-time inte= ractive services with higher QoS requirements it is

   expected that 3GPP= network can provide better guarantees on the

   average case. For = bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best-

   effort delivery, W= i-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical

   partition does not= fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself

   is quite dynamic a= nd hard to predict. It is important to implement

   adaptive offloadin= g mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource

   utility with ever = changing radio environment for a possibly moving

   terminal based on = network status, e.g. cell load, AP’s signal

   intensity, user= 217;s subscription type, etc.

[xcs]The same question from 1):=  How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the network status ? The PCRF/ANDSF= provides these information to the MPTCP Proxy/UE ?

 

 

 

BRs

Chunshan Xiong

Huawei Technologies Co= ., Ltd.

 

 

--_000_6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49nkgeml507mbschi_-- From nobody Fri Feb 21 00:53:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205FF1A0040 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:53:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SrGCqUfmUtcj for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x235.google.com (mail-lb0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF621A0070 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f181.google.com with SMTP id z11so2143007lbi.12 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:52:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IcfIsGHZNcwmaY8OraoUry65KFRIkH76N5zhuK2RMOc=; b=rPlJW6Jte2yL1xJSBPD/LVUMHxaMLzloiOXEDG9Wbu6E0PjzzvCSER9fMCowzaqCsp CLi0gaMqUSOI63KzVP77lO46F0+8RrI4pj7YErHz/AiCiGxqBv786LOnAiCewT6BzY5l d3+MxTSacF9rvrF0JeBwduULsnvoaTtjaG9f0L6S5wBEmILtwHvCrVVg4YAeiSJRWmKe fvETZDUkEDg9y5GDS3xH5fbN0w8eUT0tBuvfnp3EV22UGNNqQXxhBIRYf8gxrV+kJ1NO sOY52kMEfj/jayDldOX02WE7aAWhqzahzWO7u8vd1M4Q0LJrogE8h80jcBjxvjHqMv2F Uukg== X-Received: by 10.112.142.230 with SMTP id rz6mr3562567lbb.0.1392972779483; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.250.222] ([194.100.71.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id rt7sm6976174lbb.0.2014.02.21.00.52.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:52:57 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Jouni Korhonen In-Reply-To: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:52:56 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <50BE6A8A-2242-468C-964B-B52A77AC3E34@gmail.com> References: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> To: Xiongchunshan (Sam) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/UM9z-FABbwZEDmIc7n5UZIcPHGg Cc: "dmm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:53:07 -0000 Do you mean draft-deng-mptcp-mobile-network-proxy-00 I-D ? - Jouni On Feb 21, 2014, at 9:18 AM, Xiongchunshan (Sam) = wrote: > Hello folks, > =20 > Here I have some comments on this document: > =20 > 1) > 5.2 Traffic mediation > (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always > possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow > from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a > single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows should be > considered. > (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine- > grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic > selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed. For > instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy > for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup > unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for = a > un-prioritized VoIP service. > [xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the = binding information between the IP and RAT ? The mobile node knows = which IP is allocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the MPTCP = Proxy in the core network to know these mapping information. > One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide = these binding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy = performance the traffic mediation or let the mobile to do the traffic = mediation. > =20 > Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over = 3GPP") are provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP = proxy, it is again the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ? > =20 > =20 > 2) > 4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense > Due to its low construction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been > adopted by mobile operators as a complementary RAT for their > traditional 3GPP networks. However, different construction and > operation expenses of various radio networks result in differences = in > charging rates/policies for different RATs. > For instance, Wi-Fi access may be charged by the access duration, > while the 3GPP access may be charged by the consumed data volume. > Even if using the same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much > cheaper than 3GPP data service. > Moreover, different subscription packages may offer various data > plans for various RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may = contain > free data volume as well free Wi-Fi access too. > By enabling MPTCP session between UE and network proxy, via = mediating > sub-flow data traffic based on their Radio access types and the > user=92s subscription package, it is possible to further reduce the > usage expenses from both sides of the network and user. > =20 > [xcs] it will benefit the user if the user=92s expense of data usage = is reduced, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is very = low, maybe all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by the = MPTCP proxy, and the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren=92t = ensured, so it is proposed to adding the following sentence to the end = of this chapter: > The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still = kept when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user=92s usage expenses. > =20 > A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection is = activated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn=92t = activated or a wrong WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP Proxy = can=92t access the WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to = control the MPTCP Proxy to mediate the IP flows, another hand, the = network should tell the mobile to open which RAT/WiFi to make the MPTCP = Proxy work. i.e. the network should provide some information to the UE = , to guide the UE to select and open another RAT to enable the MPTCP. > =20 > =20 > 3) > 4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information > For real-time interactive services with higher QoS requirements it = is > expected that 3GPP network can provide better guarantees on the > average case. For bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best- > effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical > partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself > is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to implement > adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource > utility with ever changing radio environment for a possibly moving > terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, AP=92s signal > intensity, user=92s subscription type, etc. > [xcs]The same question from 1): How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the = network status ? The PCRF/ANDSF provides these information to the MPTCP = Proxy/UE ? > =20 > =20 > =20 > BRs > Chunshan Xiong > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm From nobody Fri Feb 21 00:54:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950A21A04E9 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4oruzwBkKpR5 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:54:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC701A0040 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 00:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by omfedm13.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 9FFA93246B7; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:54:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfedm08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7F94E2380BE; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:54:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM12.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::81f:1640:4749:5d13]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:54:04 +0100 From: To: "Xiongchunshan (Sam)" , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks Thread-Index: Ac8u04znYlU2gVNLTym2PKgjhkjjEQAAXLOQAANbiBA= Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:54:03 +0000 Message-ID: <25866_1392972844_5307142C_25866_5790_1_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F71141F9C1E@PEXCVZYM12.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F71141F9C1EPEXCVZYM12corpo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.2.21.50914 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/kQBOR97YYwpva_cfKAp93vfS5BM Subject: Re: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:54:14 -0000 --_000_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F71141F9C1EPEXCVZYM12corpo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Which document are you referring ? De : dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Xiongchunshan (Sam) Envoy=E9 : vendredi 21 f=E9vrier 2014 08:19 =C0 : dmm@ietf.org Objet : [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks Hello folks, Here I have some comments on this document: 1) 5.2 Traffic mediation (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows should be considered. (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine- grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed. For instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for a un-prioritized VoIP service. [xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the binding = information between the IP and RAT ? The mobile node knows which IP is all= ocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the MPTCP Proxy in the core = network to know these mapping information. One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide these bi= nding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy performance the tra= ffic mediation or let the mobile to do the traffic mediation. Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP") ar= e provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP proxy, it is ag= ain the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ? 2) 4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense Due to its low construction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been adopted by mobile operators as a complementary RAT for their traditional 3GPP networks. However, different construction and operation expenses of various radio networks result in differences in charging rates/policies for different RATs. For instance, Wi-Fi access may be charged by the access duration, while the 3GPP access may be charged by the consumed data volume. Even if using the same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much cheaper than 3GPP data service. Moreover, different subscription packages may offer various data plans for various RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may contain free data volume as well free Wi-Fi access too. By enabling MPTCP session between UE and network proxy, via mediating sub-flow data traffic based on their Radio access types and the user's subscription package, it is possible to further reduce the usage expenses from both sides of the network and user. [xcs] it will benefit the user if the user's expense of data usage is reduc= ed, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is very low, maybe= all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by the MPTCP proxy, and = the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren't ensured, so it is proposed= to adding the following sentence to the end of this chapter: The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still kept = when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user's usage expenses. A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection is activ= ated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn't activated or a wro= ng WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP Proxy can't access the WiFi = IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to control the MPTCP Proxy to= mediate the IP flows, another hand, the network should tell the mobile to = open which RAT/WiFi to make the MPTCP Proxy work. i.e. the network should = provide some information to the UE , to guide the UE to select and open ano= ther RAT to enable the MPTCP. 3) 4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information For real-time interactive services with higher QoS requirements it is expected that 3GPP network can provide better guarantees on the average case. For bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best- effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to implement adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource utility with ever changing radio environment for a possibly moving terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, AP's signal intensity, user's subscription type, etc. [xcs]The same question from 1): How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the netwo= rk status ? The PCRF/ANDSF provides these information to the MPTCP Proxy/UE= ? BRs Chunshan Xiong Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_81C77F07008CA24F9783A98CFD706F71141F9C1EPEXCVZYM12corpo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Which document are you referring ?

 

De : dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Xiongchunshan (Sam)
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 21 f=E9vrier 2014 08:19
=C0 : dmm@ietf.org
Objet : [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks=

 =

Hello folks,

 

Here I have some comments on this document:

 

1)

5.2  Traffic mediation

   (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is no= t always

   possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every= sub-flow

   from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring t= o enable a

   single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows sho= uld be

   considered.

   (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, fo= r fine-

   grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and d= ynamic

   selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed.= For

   instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" coul= d be a static policy

   for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP on= ly for backup

   unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offlo= ading policy for a

   un-prioritized VoIP service.

[xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the bi= nding information between the IP and RAT ?  The mobile node knows whic= h IP is allocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the MPTCP Proxy in the core network to know these mapping in= formation.

One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide th= ese binding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy performance t= he traffic mediation or let the mobile to do the traffic mediation.

 

Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi ove= r 3GPP") are provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP= proxy, it is again the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ?

 

 

2)

4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense

   Due to its low construction and operation expenses, Wi-F= i has been

   adopted by mobile operators as a complementary RAT for t= heir

   traditional 3GPP networks. However, different constructi= on and

   operation expenses of various radio networks result in d= ifferences in

   charging rates/policies for different RATs.

   For instance, Wi-Fi access may be charged by the access = duration,

   while the 3GPP access may be charged by the consumed dat= a volume.

   Even if using the same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected= to be much

   cheaper than 3GPP data service.

   Moreover, different subscription packages may offer vari= ous data

   plans for various RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package= may contain

   free data volume as well free Wi-Fi access too.

   By enabling MPTCP session between UE and network proxy, = via mediating

   sub-flow data traffic based on their Radio access types = and the

   user’s subscription package, it is possible to fur= ther reduce the

   usage expenses from both sides of the network and user.<= o:p>

 

[xcs] it will benefit the user if the user’s expense of data us= age is reduced, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is ver= y low, maybe all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by the MPTCP proxy, and the mobility and QoS of the serv= ice maybe aren’t ensured, so it is proposed to adding the following s= entence to the end of this chapter:

The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of th= e current data services are still kept when the MPTCP proxy is used to redu= ce the user’s usage expenses.

 

A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection is= activated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn’t activa= ted or a wrong WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP Proxy can’t access the WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, = the network need to control the MPTCP Proxy to mediate the IP flows, anothe= r hand, the network should tell the mobile to open which RAT/WiFi to make t= he MPTCP Proxy work.  i.e. the network should provide some information to the UE , to guide the UE to select and = open another RAT to enable the MPTCP.

 

 

3)

4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information

   For real-time interactive services with higher QoS requi= rements it is

   expected that 3GPP network can provide better guarantees= on the

   average case. For bulk data transfer who is satisfied wi= th best-

   effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the = vertical

   partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condi= tion itself

   is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to= implement

   adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve highe= r resource

   utility with ever changing radio environment for a possi= bly moving

   terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, APR= 17;s signal

   intensity, user’s subscription type, etc.

[xcs]The same question from 1):  How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE kno= w the network status ? The PCRF/ANDSF provides these information to the MPT= CP Proxy/UE ?

 

 

 

BRs

Chunshan Xiong

Huawei = Technologies Co., Ltd.

 

 

______________________________________________________________________=
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NO X-Spam-Score: -3.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q0oewcd-HoXh for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:58:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7E81A0185 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BDX86094; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:58:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:58:19 +0000 Received: from SZXEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.163) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:58:09 +0000 Received: from szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.233]) by szxeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.163]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 05:58:03 +0800 From: h chan To: Alexandru Petrescu , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Thread-Index: AQHPLYPah5rax31aEEePVZp0M9KGyZrE8FGg Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:58:02 +0000 Message-ID: <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370F3ABE@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <20140203223641.24604.31673.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <52F0B2A9.5080108@gmail.com> <6E31144C030982429702B11D6746B98C370EC7BF@szxeml557-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5304C7C0.8040302@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5304C7C0.8040302@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.71] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/VgvFfZ0_uC-2-NtSX4Mk5l3tR_w Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 21:58:30 -0000 Alex, In the 2 choices to describe the need for mobility support for MR, the seco= nd choice involves more changes than the first choice. Because the draft is= already going through IESG, I think we can take the first choice as the ba= sis:=20 Mobility support is also needed, for example, when a mobile router moves to= gether with a host and an application in the host is interrupted by a chang= e of IP address of the mobile router and the presence of ingress filtering. Since this mobile router sentence was okay technically except for being too= long, I think we can simply shorten it as follows:=20 Mobility support is also needed when a mobile router changes its IP address= as it moves together with a host and, in the presence of ingress filtering= , an application in the host is interrupted.=20 The entire REQ2 is then: REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility but it MUST be possible to not use it. Mobility support is needed, for example, when a mobile host moves and an application cannot cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility support is also needed when a mobile router changes its IP address as it moves together with a host and, in the presence of ingress filtering, an application in the host is interrupted. However mobility support at the network-layer is not always needed; a mobile node can often be stationary, and mobility support can also be provided at other layers. It is then not always necessary to maintain a stable IP address or prefix. H Anthony Chan -----Original Message----- From: Alexandru Petrescu [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 9:03 AM To: h chan; dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt H Anthony, > REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support > > DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility but it MUST > > be possible to not use it. Mobility support is needed, for > > example, when a mobile host moves and an application cannot > > cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility support is > > also needed, for example, when a mobile router moves together > > with a host and an application in the host is interrupted by a > > change of IP address of the mobile router > > and the presence of ingress filtering. Sounds good, technically. Since this is already a long phrase maybe we cou= ld detail it further, and then later make it better, or separate. How about this: > Distributed Mobility Management support is also needed, for example,=20 > when a Mobile Router moves together with a Host and an application=20 > running in the Host (LFN) is disturbed by the change of address of the=20 > Mobile Router. Specifically, the incoming packets towards the Host=20 > may be blocked at a Router in the path from the CN, or may be taking a=20 > longer path through the Home Agent (in case Mobile IP is used); an=20 > application sending packets from the Host may be blocked by the=20 > ingress filtering potentially set in the access network, or may take a=20 > longer path through the Home Agent (in case Mobile IP is used). What do you think? Alex Alex > > However mobility > > support at the network-layer is not always needed; a mobile > > node can often be stationary, and mobility support can also be > > provided at other layers. It is then not always necessary to > > maintain a stable IP address or prefix. Le 14/02/2014 00:35, h chan a =E9crit : > Alex, > > Thanks for spelling out the conditions more accurately. Just to=20 > confirm whether the addition the text in red as in the following is=20 > needed for accuracy reasons. > > May I ask whether we can alternatively assume that ingress filtering=20 > should always not be prevented. Then when the red text is missing as=20 > in version 14, is that still incorrect or it needs to be corrected? > > REQ2: Bypassable network-layer mobility support > > DMM solutions MUST enable network-layer mobility but it MUST > > be possible to not use it. Mobility support is needed, for > > example, when a mobile host moves and an application cannot > > cope with a change in the IP address. Mobility support is > > also needed, for example, when a mobile router moves together > > with a host and an application in the host is interrupted by a > > change of IP address of the mobile router > > and the presence of ingress filtering. > > However mobility > > support at the network-layer is not always needed; a mobile > > node can often be stationary, and mobility support can also be > > provided at other layers. It is then not always necessary to > > maintain a stable IP address or prefix. > > H Anthony Chan > > -----Original Message----- From: dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 > Behalf Of Alexandru Petrescu Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:28 AM=20 > To: dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt > > Thanks for this new version. > > A comment: > >> Mobility support is also needed, for example, when a mobile router > >> moves together with a host and an application in the host is > >> interrupted by a change of IP address of the mobile router. > > ^and presence of ingress filtering. > > Alex > > Le 03/02/2014 23:36, internet-drafts@ietf.org=20 > a =E9crit : > >> > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >> directories. This draft is a work item of the Distributed Mobility > >> Management Working Group of the IETF. > >> > >> Title : Requirements for Distributed Mobility Management > >> Authors : H Anthony Chan Dapeng Liu Pierrick Seite >> Hidetoshi > >> Yokota Jouni Korhonen Filename : > >> draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14.txt Pages : 19 Date > >> : 2014-02-03 > >> > >> Abstract: This document defines the requirements for Distributed > >> Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical > >> structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to > >> centralized deployment models. As some wireless networks are=20 >> evolving > >> away from the hierarchical structure, a distributed model for=20 >> mobility > >> management can be useful to them. > >> > >> > >> > >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements/ > >> > >> There's also a htmlized version available at: > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > >> > >> A diff from the previous version is available at: > >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 > >> > >> > >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >> tools.ietf.org. > >> > >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing > >> list I-D-Announce@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft > >> directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > From nobody Mon Feb 24 16:05:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFBE1A035D for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:05:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.761 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.761 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QLMDi9NMNnpd for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mandala.kddilabs.jp (mandala.kddilabs.jp [IPv6:2001:200:601:12::16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAC51A0353 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mandala.kddilabs.jp [127.0.0.1]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D4017481B2 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:05:06 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kddilabs.jp Received: from mandala.kddilabs.jp ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mandala.kddilabs.jp [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A6vPRU8lQiJ9 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:05:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from ultra.mip.kddilabs.jp (ultra.mip.kddilabs.jp [172.19.90.145]) by mandala.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392AE17481A6 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:05:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp197.west-4f.cn.kddilabs.jp [172.19.124.197]) by ultra.mip.kddilabs.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C0F81B9B1 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:52:30 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <530BDE32.80407@kddilabs.jp> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:05:06 +0900 From: Hidetoshi Yokota User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmm@ietf.org References: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/-ukdjqQgsw0w50V-hUiQK_Rn3C4 Subject: Re: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:05:10 -0000 Hi Chunshan, Isn't this I-D for MPTCP WG (although it is somewhat related to DMM)? Regards, -- Hidetoshi Yokota KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc. e-mail:yokota@kddilabs.jp (2014/02/21 16:18), Xiongchunshan (Sam) wrote: > > Hello folks, > > Here I have some comments on this document: > > 1) > > 5.2 Traffic mediation > > (a) Anchoring of sub-flow traffic: On one hand, it is not always > > possible for a single GW be sitting on the path of every sub-flow > > from a MPTCP session, hence explicit traffic anchoring to enable a > > single point of general control over MPTCP sub-flows should be > > considered. > > (b) Mediation of sub-flow traffic: On the other hand, for fine- > > grained mediation of sub-flow traffic, both static and dynamic > > selection/offloading/pooling policies should be allowed. For > > instance, "always prefer Wi-Fi over 3GPP" could be a static policy > > for bulk data transfer services, while "use 3GPP only for backup > > unless Wi-Fi is congested" could be a dynamic offloading policy for a > > un-prioritized VoIP service. > > [xcs]Question for clarification: How does the MPTCP proxy know the > binding information between the IP and RAT ? The mobile node knows > which IP is allocated from which RAT, but it is very hard for the > MPTCP Proxy in the core network to know these mapping information. > > One possible solution is the PCRF (defined in the 3GPP) to provide > these binding information to the MPTCP proxy if the MPTCP proxy > performance the traffic mediation or let the mobile to do the traffic > mediation. > > Another question is how the rules (e.g. "always prefer Wi-Fi over > 3GPP") are provided to the MPTCP Proxy or the mobile ? For the MPTCP > proxy, it is again the PCRF; for the mobile , it is the ANDSF ? > > 2) > > 4.2 Resource pooling for reduced expense > > Due to its low construction and operation expenses, Wi-Fi has been > > adopted by mobile operators as a complementary RAT for their > > traditional 3GPP networks. However, different construction and > > operation expenses of various radio networks result in differences in > > charging rates/policies for different RATs. > > For instance, Wi-Fi access may be charged by the access duration, > > while the 3GPP access may be charged by the consumed data volume. > > Even if using the same policy, Wi-Fi service is expected to be much > > cheaper than 3GPP data service. > > Moreover, different subscription packages may offer various data > > plans for various RATs. For instance, a basic 4G package may contain > > free data volume as well free Wi-Fi access too. > > By enabling MPTCP session between UE and network proxy, via mediating > > sub-flow data traffic based on their Radio access types and the > > user’s subscription package, it is possible to further reduce the > > usage expenses from both sides of the network and user. > > [xcs] it will benefit the user if the user’s expense of data usage is > reduced, if the WiFi connection is available and charging fee is very > low, maybe all the traffic from the 4G are moved to the WiFi by the > MPTCP proxy, and the mobility and QoS of the service maybe aren’t > ensured, so it is proposed to adding the following sentence to the end > of this chapter: > > *The QoS/QoE/Service continuity of the current data services are still > kept when the MPTCP proxy is used to reduce the user’s usage expenses.* > > A assumption for reducing user expense is that the WiFi connection is > activated beforehand, but sometimes the WiFi connection isn’t > activated or a wrong WiFi AP is selected by the user( that MPTCP Proxy > can’t access the WiFi IP flow), that is, one hand, the network need to > control the MPTCP Proxy to mediate the IP flows, another hand, the > network should tell the mobile to open which RAT/WiFi to make the > MPTCP Proxy work. i.e. the network should provide some information to > the UE , to guide the UE to select and open another RAT to enable the > MPTCP. > > 3) > > 4.1 Dynamic traffic offloading based on network information > > For real-time interactive services with higher QoS requirements it is > > expected that 3GPP network can provide better guarantees on the > > average case. For bulk data transfer who is satisfied with best- > > effort delivery, Wi-Fi would be a great choice. But the vertical > > partition does not fit everywhere for the wireless condition itself > > is quite dynamic and hard to predict. It is important to implement > > adaptive offloading mechanisms in order to achieve higher resource > > utility with ever changing radio environment for a possibly moving > > terminal based on network status, e.g. cell load, AP’s signal > > intensity, user’s subscription type, etc. > > [xcs]The same question from 1): How does the MPTCP Proxy/UE know the > network status ? The PCRF/ANDSF provides these information to the > MPTCP Proxy/UE ? > > BRs > > Chunshan Xiong > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm From nobody Mon Feb 24 16:59:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51D01A02F8 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:59:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2cavohmTKVY9 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58391A0235 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BDX93630; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:59:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:59:25 +0000 Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:59:30 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.209]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:59:26 +0800 From: "Xiongchunshan (Sam)" To: Hidetoshi Yokota , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks Thread-Index: AQHPMb1F1NczNsE1b0yicvZxyhIvBprFJbfQ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:59:26 +0000 Message-ID: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD04112606C@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <6B53974F43BA3C40A96CA7FDE0C9BBD0410FEE49@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> <530BDE32.80407@kddilabs.jp> In-Reply-To: <530BDE32.80407@kddilabs.jp> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.64.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/8NJsotOdNGB6JJg6So_JczWvNlM Subject: Re: [DMM] MPTCP Proxy for Mobile Networks X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 00:59:37 -0000 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Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/2l5FbkyvVWZE0pXjyeFdH0d2jfE X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:15:12 -0800 Subject: [DMM] Fw: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: H Anthony Chan List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:33:22 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CF3318.D35FB410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In response to comment from Russ Housley, the abstract is elaborated a = little bit and acronyms have been checked.=20 H Anthony Chan From: H Anthony Chan=20 Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 4:49 PM To: Russ Housley ; draft-ietf-dmm-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org=20 Cc: IESG ; IETF Gen-ART=20 Subject: Re: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 Thanks. Regarding the first comment, the abstract can be elaborated a little = more as follows: This document defines the requirements for Distributed Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to centrally deployed mobility anchors. As some wireless networks are evolving away from the hierarchical structure, it can be useful have a distributed model for mobility management in which traffic does not need to traverse centrally deployed mobility anchors far from the optimal route. Regarding the second comments on defining the acronyms: It appears there are 3 such instances: EPC, 3GPP, WLAN. All other = acronyms have been properly defined.=20 EPC needs to be spelled out before the acronym appears. 3GPP was spelled out in Section 3.1 but was also used in Section 1. It = needs to move to Section 1.=20 WLAN is also spelled out.=20 H Anthony Chan From: Russ Housley=20 Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 1:51 PM To: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org=20 Cc: IESG ; IETF Gen-ART=20 Subject: Gen-ART review of draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at . Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments you may receive. Document: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review Date: 2014-02-10 IETF LC End Date: 2014-02-17 IESG Telechat date: Unknown Summary: Ready for publication. Major Concerns: None. Minor Concerns: None. Other Comments: I think that the Abstract could be more polished. Some mention of the anchor point seems desirable. Spell out acronyms the first time they are used. EPC is an example that needs to be expanded. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CF3318.D35FB410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In response to comment = from Russ=20 Housley, the abstract is elaborated a little bit and acronyms have been = checked.=20
H Anthony Chan
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 4:49 PM
To: Russ Housley ; draft-ietf= -dmm-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org=20
Cc: IESG ; IETF = Gen-ART
Subject: Re: Gen-ART review of=20 draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14

Thanks.

Regarding the first comment, the abstract can be elaborated a = little=20 more as follows:

   This document defines the = requirements for=20 Distributed Mobility
   Management (DMM) at the network=20 layer.  The hierarchical structure in
   traditional = wireless=20 networks has led primarily to centrally deployed
   = mobility=20 anchors.  As some wireless networks are evolving away = from
  =20 the hierarchical structure, it can be useful have a distributed=20 model
   for mobility management in which traffic does not = need to=20 traverse
   centrally deployed mobility anchors far from = the=20 optimal route.

Regarding the second comments = on=20 defining the acronyms:
It appears there are 3 such instances: EPC, = 3GPP, WLAN.=20 All other acronyms have been properly defined.
 
EPC needs to be spelled out before the acronym = appears.
3GPP was spelled out in Section 3.1 = but was=20 also used in Section 1. It needs to move to Section 1.
WLAN is also spelled out.
 
H Anthony Chan

From: Russ = Housley=20
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 1:51 PM
To:=20 draft-ietf-dmm-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org
Cc: IESG ; IETF = Gen-ART=20
Subject: Gen-ART review of = draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14


I am=20 the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background = on
Gen-ART,=20 please see the FAQ=20 at
<http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
Please=20 resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments
you = may=20 receive.

Document: draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14
Reviewer: = Russ=20 Housley
Review Date: 2014-02-10
IETF LC End Date: = 2014-02-17
IESG=20 Telechat date: Unknown

Summary:  Ready for=20 publication.


Major Concerns:  None.


Minor=20 Concerns:  None.


Other Comments:

I think that the = Abstract could be more polished.  Some mention of the
anchor = point seems=20 desirable.

Spell out acronyms the first time they are used. EPC = is an=20 example that
needs to be expanded.
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CF3318.D35FB410-- From nobody Wed Feb 26 23:15:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D4A1A07CA; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:32:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FREEMAIL_DOC_PDF=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bU6TWL-MwokR; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1046C1A079E; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id y20so1443406ier.15 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:32:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:reply-to:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :mime-version:content-type:importance; bh=XjnCobmZgrl9ebEq8uhqUKu+2yotzgNdx0pT2R1xHbE=; b=vAT743sQ1Sg3Jmb421wqvePGAiT/MHdRi3/micia/ZPqj5OwrK5/xO5CZ+2ATi8k3Q aJvDiuvE89O3HVWD8NUvkxbwabG5LEmKZ5tT+AHyrL93B+KFeb051YwogX6BtWhhRCmw OIjOqD9J0lt8sv/bIUJ0mnSmi4DBwBial2NN0aJWut5BANHxmJ6n87kPjE8USNUg8Sbp GNRhaPqUaWP+fXZHLVz61U2b0WOFx9LPglgD5SIrMjuFC1evi4Du4hrV3Ax79Y1Z0Uvx OFa5tVF7VLQUGkEcBHqYz/NzLyFlBkZ/3zhIyBXaZBTcPJKAYzzWhz8nnTqEBcXchifJ flyw== X-Received: by 10.50.4.74 with SMTP id i10mr2655464igi.43.1393461142623; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:32:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from C73782TX02 ([50.58.7.243]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hs6sm53824523igb.2.2014.02.26.16.32.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:32:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FB80D3E15F745BE82C550268ABCA822@china.huawei.com> From: "H Anthony Chan" To: "Catherine Meadows" , , , References: <79966625-7B22-4641-8B4E-3839AE3B67A6@nrl.navy.mil> In-Reply-To: <79966625-7B22-4641-8B4E-3839AE3B67A6@nrl.navy.mil> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 18:32:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01CF3321.151811B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmm/Y8IeHKDqAxCobnSL9GTbAIClA-0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:15:13 -0800 Cc: Catherine Meadows , dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] Secdir review of draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: H Anthony Chan List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:32:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01CF3321.151811B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0038_01CF3321.151811B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0038_01CF3321.151811B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Catherine, Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I am going through them one by one as follows: The revised abstract is as follows: Abstract: This document defines the requirements for Distributed Mobility Management (DMM) at the network layer. The hierarchical structure in traditional wireless networks has led primarily to centrally deployed mobility anchors. As some wireless networks are evolving away from the hierarchical structure, it can be useful have a distributed model for mobility management in which traffic does not need to traverse centrally deployed mobility anchors far from the optimal route. The motivation and the problems addressed by each requirement are also described. I agree "distributed processing" is open-ended. The following suggested = revision tries to spell out what to enable.=20 REQ1: Distributed mobility management IP mobility, network access and routing solutions provided by DMM MUST enable traffic to avoid traversing single mobility anchor far from the optimal route. Thanks for the suggestion to clarify what the specific node mean.=20 I also agree that "can be used to protect" is not the proper word. The = intention of this requirement is that the dmm solution MUST be designed = properly (in terms of security) such that the use of the security = protocols that are already used to protect the existing network and the = existing mobility protocols is able to provide sufficient protection to = the dmm entities. Please check the following revision: REQ6: Security considerations A DMM solution MUST NOT introduce new security risks, or amplify existing security risks, that cannot be mitigated by existing security mechanisms or protocols. Motivation: Various attacks such as impersonation, denial of service, man-in-the-middle attacks, and so on, may be launched in a DMM deployment. For instance, an illegitimate node may attempt to access a network providing DMM. Another example is that a malicious node can forge a number of signaling messages thus redirecting traffic from its legitimate path. Consequently, the specific node or nodes to which the traffic is redirected may be under a denial of service attack, whereas other nodes do not receive their traffic. Accordingly, security mechanisms/protocols providing access control, integrity, authentication, authorization, confidentiality, etc. should be used to protect the DMM entities as they are already used to protect against existing networks and existing mobility protocols defined in IETF. Yet if a candidate DMM solution is such that even the proper use of these existing security mechanisms/protocols are unable to provide sufficient security protection, that candidate DMM solution is causing uncontrollable security problems. This requirement prevents a DMM solution from introducing uncontrollable problems of potentially insecure mobility management protocols which make deployment infeasible because platforms conforming to the protocols are at risk for data loss and numerous other dangers, including financial harm to the users. H Anthony Chan From: Catherine Meadows=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 3:27 PM To: secdir@ietf.org ; iesg@ietf.org ; = draft-ietf-dmm-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org=20 Cc: Catherine Meadows=20 Subject: Secdir review of draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14 I have reviewed this document as part of the security directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the security area directors. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments.=20 This draft gives high-level requirements for distributed mobility = management at the network layer.=20 It also gives definitions of key concepts and motivation for replacing = or augmenting current standards for centralized mobility management (in = which information=20 about location of a mobile node is kept at a centralized mobility = anchor) with distributed mobility management, in which this information is distributed. This latter includes a list of the = problems that can be addressed with DMM. Although the motivation for distributed mobility management is not the = main point of this document, it is very helpful in helping the reader understand the requirements and their importance, = so I am glad to see it there. Since this, including the problem statement, is quite important and useful, I=92d suggest = mentioning it in the abstract. The requirements are for the most part well-written and at the = appropriate level of detail. However, I have a few suggestions: 1) REQ 1 is for distributed processing, but =93distributed processing = is a rather open-ended term. It would be a good idea to include some indication of what is meant by distributed = processing here. 2) There are a couple of points in REQ6: Security considerations that = need to be clarified: 2a) Another example is that a malicious node can forge a number of signaling messages thus redirecting traffic from its legitimate path. Consequently, the specific node is under a denial of service attack, whereas other nodes do not receive their traffic. It=92s not made clear what the specific node is. It would be better to = have something like Another example is that a malicious node can forge a number of signaling messages thus redirecting traffic from its legitimate path. Consequently, the specific node or nodes to which the traffic is = redirected may be under a denial of service attack, whereas other nodes do not receive their traffic. 2b) Accordingly, security mechanisms/protocols providing access control, integrity, authentication, authorization, confidentiality, etc. can be used to protect the DMM entities as they are already used to protect against existing networks and existing mobility protocols defined in IETF. =93can be used to protect=94 seems awfully weak. Is there any reason = why you don=92t want to say SHOULD or MUST? Or, if you don=92t want to make this and IETF SHOULD or MUST, you might = want to say something like =93we recommend=94.=20 Catherine Meadows Naval Research Laboratory Code 5543 4555 Overlook Ave., S.W. Washington DC, 20375 phone: 202-767-3490 fax: 202-404-7942 email: catherine.meadows@nrl.navy.mil=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0038_01CF3321.151811B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Catherine,
 
Thanks for the comments and = suggestions.
 
I am going through them one by one as=20 follows:
 
The revised abstract is as = follows:
 
Abstract:
   This=20 document defines the requirements for Distributed = Mobility
  =20 Management (DMM) at the network layer.  The hierarchical structure=20 in
   traditional wireless networks has led primarily to = centrally=20 deployed
   mobility anchors.  As some wireless = networks are=20 evolving away from
   the hierarchical structure, it can be = useful=20 have a distributed model
   for mobility management in = which=20 traffic does not need to traverse
   centrally deployed = mobility=20 anchors far from the optimal route.  The
   motivation = and the=20 problems addressed by each requirement are also
  =20 described.
 
I agree "distributed processing" is = open-ended. The=20 following suggested revision tries to spell out what to enable. =
 
   REQ1:  Distributed mobility=20 management

          = IP=20 mobility, network access and routing solutions provided=20 by
          DMM MUST = enable=20 traffic to avoid traversing single=20 mobility
          = anchor far=20 from the optimal route.
Thanks for the suggestion to clarify what the = specific=20 node mean. 
 
I also agree that "can be used to protect" is = not the=20 proper word. The intention of this requirement is that the dmm=20 solution MUST be designed properly (in terms of = security) such=20 that the use of the security protocols that are already used to protect = the=20 existing network and the existing mobility protocols is able=20 to provide sufficient protection to the dmm entities. = Please=20 check the following revision:
 
   REQ6:  Security=20 considerations

        &nb= sp; A=20 DMM solution MUST NOT introduce new security risks,=20 or
          amplify = existing=20 security risks, that cannot be mitigated=20 by
          existing = security=20 mechanisms or=20 protocols.

          = Motivation: Various attacks such as impersonation, denial=20 of
          service,=20 man-in-the-middle attacks, and so on, may be=20 launched
          in a = DMM=20 deployment.  For instance, an illegitimate node=20 may
          attempt to = access=20 a network providing DMM.  Another example=20 is
          that a = malicious=20 node can forge a number of signaling=20 messages
          thus=20 redirecting traffic from its legitimate=20 path.
          = Consequently,=20 the specific node or nodes to which the=20 traffic
          is = redirected=20 may be under a denial of service attack,=20 whereas
          other = nodes do=20 not receive their traffic. =20 Accordingly,
          = security=20 mechanisms/protocols providing access=20 control,
          = integrity,=20 authentication, authorization,=20 confidentiality,
         = ; etc.=20 should be used to protect the DMM entities as they=20 are
          already = used to=20 protect against existing networks and=20 existing
          = mobility=20 protocols defined in IETF.  Yet if a candidate=20 DMM
          solution = is such=20 that even the proper use of these=20 existing
          = security=20 mechanisms/protocols are unable to provide=20 sufficient
          = security=20 protection, that candidate DMM solution is=20 causing
          = uncontrollable=20 security problems.

   This requirement prevents a DMM = solution=20 from introducing
   uncontrollable problems of potentially = insecure=20 mobility management
   protocols which make deployment = infeasible=20 because platforms
   conforming to the protocols are at = risk for=20 data loss and numerous
   other dangers, including = financial harm=20 to the users.
H Anthony Chan

From: Catherine Meadows =
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 3:27 PM
To: secdir@ietf.org ; iesg@ietf.org ; draft-ietf= -dmm-requirements.all@tools.ietf.org=20
Subject: Secdir review of=20 draft-ietf-dmm-requirements-14

I have reviewed this document as part of the security=20 directorate's
ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being = processed by=20 the
IESG.  These comments were written primarily for the benefit = of=20 the
security area directors.  Document editors and WG chairs = should=20 treat
these comments just like any other last call comments.=20

This draft gives high-level requirements for distributed mobility=20 management at the network layer.=20
 It also gives definitions of key concepts and motivation for=20 replacing or augmenting current standards for centralized mobility = management=20 (in which information=20
about location of a mobile node is kept at a centralized mobility = anchor)=20 with distributed mobility management, in which
this information is distributed.  This latter includes a list = of the=20 problems that can be addressed with DMM.

Although the motivation for distributed mobility management is not = the main=20 point of this document, it is very helpful
in helping the reader understand the requirements and their = importance, so=20 I am glad to see it there.  Since this, including the
problem statement, is quite important and useful, I=92d suggest = mentioning it=20 in the abstract.

The requirements are for the most part well-written and at the = appropriate=20 level of detail.  However, I have
a few suggestions:

1)  REQ 1 is for distributed processing, but =93distributed = processing=20 is a rather open-ended term.  It would be a good
idea to include some indication of what is meant by distributed = processing=20 here.

2)  There are a couple of points in REQ6: Security = considerations that=20 need to be clarified:

2a) Another example is
that a malicious node can forge a number = of=20 signaling messages
thus redirecting traffic from its legitimate=20 path.
Consequently, the specific node is under a denial of = service
attack,=20 whereas other nodes do not receive their traffic.

It=92s not made clear what the specific node is.  It would be = better to=20 have something like

Another example is
that a malicious node can forge a number of = signaling=20 messages
thus redirecting traffic from its legitimate = path.
Consequently,=20 the specific node or nodes to which the traffic is redirected may be = under a=20 denial of service
attack, whereas other nodes do not receive their=20 traffic.

2b) Accordingly, security mechanisms/protocols providing=20 access
control, integrity, authentication, = authorization,
confidentiality,=20 etc. can be used to protect the DMM entities
as they are already used = to=20 protect against existing networks
and existing mobility protocols = defined in=20 IETF.

=93can be used to protect=94 seems  awfully weak.  Is = there any=20 reason why you don=92t want to say SHOULD or MUST?
Or, if you don=92t want to make this and IETF SHOULD or MUST, you = might want=20 to say  something like =93we recommend=94. 
Catherine=20 Meadows
Naval Research Laboratory
Code 5543
4555 Overlook Ave., = S.W.
Washington DC, 20375
phone: 202-767-3490
fax:=20 202-404-7942
email: catherine.meadows@nrl.navy= .mil=20

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