From nobody Sun Jan 3 14:17:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC663A13AC for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2021 14:17:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E33bpZQS7sUb for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2021 14:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1036.google.com (mail-pj1-x1036.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A53EC3A13AA for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2021 14:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1036.google.com with SMTP id v1so8629329pjr.2 for ; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 14:17:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version; bh=tIvybNcTOWK1JddMgnn1OeMRDWnj1WhDmhUw6lWgwXo=; b=n9MH9o78CrINX32ABnNN1TMiEMBBjozBa0LXfr4rUc2Oz3L3V5FPkWbfXnXHEj1gpz 2coCJkk69ypAcv76V6vtIlvdsarcGf32+pBjwZ/KjPV/5oFjAycL5RZ11PprlKQpqZM/ oZCjX+N5EAPPEAXAXOZNDpFZrW8g0wLAH861k/5BODFZUcmDRaDuPaCeOtUDNnGG9mX3 aYevtdp17aVPGHzVaA5tVHLa0Z12Q2WFoUEKBn9dFFOSZRnc+suqc1pboVksxSi8wiOn KJ7Y/UYjUOaFW1kDAxCdaUgOEqoLt6RsI1VFLYg+97sm1PvjtHt7lQmD6oHXDX68cDdl 5SBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version; bh=tIvybNcTOWK1JddMgnn1OeMRDWnj1WhDmhUw6lWgwXo=; b=uHA8AJOgjqRJ3SBTHjHkXeaK7Or5JmT4PGeYJjq+NvInypM9w0p17vmzbf+BXoMOh6 ZDMsGO7d3zReTqA+QO16OPD4ZB8TyYx6jVxGUYZCNkkEmrTUyXhg0qwEIs7+kNw70ctS 7E/Ueu0a/iKL6zssEeoaAQQTqPUSTZG/KWpwmf8plxHGtPNhoi0fsWp5OgIi1w2Eg+TK 9ZZ2bDFe0IQAQNwmtDzVl8D0uqTO6LmXOWftY7Ce8thPVaQhLg5408FWCyV9QDm2d2zF U8hypd1ck4GI02hBvPQYHzad217R32crfO4jh/h3bJPxQHGKdf/vesltjW+ezK4gYopA dzmw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531/cL+GoOKZLCKGDZGlDjAGJp3P5is3EJFODqXKFPDRW84YAhtB 6AgCfR3eCnAwtyaYaGywbqk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmqEOhkbkwN9k/JE+GHXbQIwfxgVWKlEa3jRVgFW1oYCe6B0gRatWGfZlqOKTqAgqFIhCGsA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:7e90:: with SMTP id j16mr26780331pjl.163.1609712253004; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 14:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.34] (047-036-118-016.res.spectrum.com. [47.36.118.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fw12sm18518225pjb.43.2021.01.03.14.17.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Jan 2021 14:17:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 14:17:24 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Sri Gundavelli , dmm@ietf.org Message-ID: <38187c36-bafc-4bec-b741-400fea6b2d8d@Spark> In-Reply-To: References: <9364FE0E-CA71-46F4-9F9E-1D01D068D677@cisco.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 38187c36-bafc-4bec-b741-400fea6b2d8d@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5ff2427a_6f3e5490_31b2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Fwd: Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 22:17:35 -0000 --5ff2427a_6f3e5490_31b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I support adoption of=C2=A0the draft as co-author. The draft provides very much needed TN aware mobility framework. Co-autho= rs have addressed all the comments provided. I believe there=E2=80=99s singifincat interest in the work, also outside = of IET=46 Cheers, Jeff On Dec 30, 2020, 10:45 AM -0800, Sri Gundavelli , wrote: > > =46olks: > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, h= ave presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple I= ET=46 WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mail= ers and there is some level of interest for the work from the community. = We are therefore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG do= cument, to be moved on Informational Standards track. > > Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G > tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedb= ack on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comments = as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there = is interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then= we may take up this work. > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > Regards > DMM WG Chairs > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > dmm mailing list > dmm=40ietf.org > www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --5ff2427a_6f3e5490_31b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi,

I support adoptio= n of&=23160;the draft as co-= author.
The draft provides very much needed TN awar= e mobility framework. Co-authors have addressed all the comments provided= .
I believe there=E2=80=99s singifincat interest in= the work, also outside of IET=46

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 30, 2020, 10:45 AM -0800, Sr= i Gundavelli <sgundave=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

=46olks:

The authors of the document, Transpo= rt Network aware Mobility for 5G, have presented the proposal and the nee= d for standardization in multiple IET=46 WG meetings. There have been goo= d amount of discussions in the mailers and there is some level of interes= t for the work from the community. We are therefore considering the adopt= ion of this document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational S= tandards track.

Transport Network aware Mobility = for 5G
tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-= tn-aware-mobility-08


With this background, we would like = to ask the WG to provide some feedback on their interest for this work. P= lease provide substantial comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why = it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is interest, and if there are no other= concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work.

The adoption call will end on 18th o= f January, 2021.

Regards
DMM WG Chairs


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
dmm mailing list
dmm=40ietf.org
www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/dmm
--5ff2427a_6f3e5490_31b2-- From nobody Sun Jan 3 20:41:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51833A1629 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2021 20:41:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wz_bFWeChF9c for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2021 20:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com (mail-oi1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0003B3A15B3 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2021 20:41:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id q25so30854582oij.10 for ; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 20:41:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kAdfaJfHuzXG1qAE00cVDajIEpJORaumVChLMN/EtFE=; b=uY8WYzt/d1NeRFfwCdd47k2RYhMUeyYwOQA1bcQnnMNj6VcojKsK4EVUOcIOxWh0IP Mf/plqMmeWaNcEDHKjUaWdGTblVKSLZDytquV6DyxUz46gI3g3jMD6x+AALrAC4D+Qiw KCjgS0hI7xR/swRfKBZgzYDWOCpsXkVThxL7Bj1ugqcv/8FskH7UmelJydCHiLmk+64J OJDTxhXImwWfpznStaAY8CLNp846EsXXV1Izl472ZTUFzSb84qNhjVt192r+XMxG4uIw uoZm1bj8nXhQ30BqZkAJ5d6vfylVkwnTr2NLDjzcLgA/vwpyo59bphXrvRtD6Dsv4DxJ YvxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kAdfaJfHuzXG1qAE00cVDajIEpJORaumVChLMN/EtFE=; b=P9qFJc5116D3mBqCUSUMtu5jMlHyl23xGOn7HqZUG67F723zz5sq/58h8TfN8SkBbV 2GXRiCzdUrB7RNqRpvyXlQnbf8AK7OxqpaLxzWpoy2FYH1mKtnWdYOPV+cXFdjtRd8f/ IWPjFF92qKngn91Q+Zk7maMJFrsxcQdMmOtimA1SW8FgTr5ulG/tTVGu/TJAzwDar6xG RhSIqWmqV1bpkLXAiqrjmvwIZmVMdoOhPsDc7TH+Wl728LVOoFFx3t/9VwpRLwiYEATS Rf4+K44y052yh22IbGbLmEELudpzrdE2tCZJr/A2SjIXJ8wqnEVlH7/We6kdNDDtKwXv Hrkw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5310crqmqXQycakHZLnbdupe3NnfW5HsgOndMSFAwOxkVrV2eTZs HEKRqScgcZnKvsqN8tMJZvI3ofjgkAXblEpDCIU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxnsst2GIYWdsRpGzJyd+lRma6mUtljZnaSvayuqfKUU9Xe04ISxbPaC3HoOiavUd5BqDzNCmTZeY+QOtpr9ug= X-Received: by 2002:aca:c085:: with SMTP id q127mr17203470oif.70.1609735289163; Sun, 03 Jan 2021 20:41:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9364FE0E-CA71-46F4-9F9E-1D01D068D677@cisco.com> <38187c36-bafc-4bec-b741-400fea6b2d8d@Spark> In-Reply-To: <38187c36-bafc-4bec-b741-400fea6b2d8d@Spark> From: Sridhar Bhaskaran Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:11:14 +0530 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: Sri Gundavelli , dmm@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000017d41a05b80bb4d0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Fwd: Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2021 04:41:32 -0000 --00000000000017d41a05b80bb4d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, As a co-author of this draft I support the adoption of this draft by the work group. While 3GPP specifies slicing aspects within the 3GPP network, how it gets mapped to transport networks when there are different transport network options is not clearly specified anywhere. In this regard this draft provides mechanisms for plumbing 3GPP network slicing with transport network slicing and in the context of realizing end to end use cases, it naturally fits into DMM WG's charter. The authors have addressed most of the comments received earlier and there is a general interest in this draft. Regards Sridhar On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:47 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi, > > I support adoption of the draft as co-author. > The draft provides very much needed TN aware mobility framework. > Co-authors have addressed all the comments provided. > I believe there=E2=80=99s singifincat interest in the work, also outside = of IETF > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 30, 2020, 10:45 AM -0800, Sri Gundavelli 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote: > > > Folks: > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, hav= e > presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple IETF = WG > meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mailers and > there is some level of interest for the work from the community. We are > therefore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, > to be moved on Informational Standards track. > > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedbac= k > on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comments as w= hy > this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is > interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we > may take up this work. > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > Regards > DMM WG Chairs > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --=20 o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --00000000000017d41a05b80bb4d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

As a co-author of th= is draft I support the adoption of this draft by the work group. While 3GPP= specifies slicing aspects within the 3GPP network, how it gets mapped to t= ransport networks when there are different transport network options is not= clearly specified anywhere. In this regard this draft provides mechanisms = for plumbing 3GPP network slicing with transport network slicing and in the= context of realizing end to end use cases, it naturally fits into DMM WG&#= 39;s charter. The authors have addressed most of the comments received earl= ier and there is a general interest in this draft.

Regards
Sridhar

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:47 AM Jef= f Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gma= il.com> wrote:
Hi,

I support adoption of=C2=A0the draft as co-author.
The draft provides very muc= h needed TN aware mobility framework. Co-authors have addressed all the com= ments provided.
I believe there=E2=80=99s singifincat interest in t= he work, also outside of IETF

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 30, 2020, 10:45 AM -0800, Sri Gund= avelli <sgundave=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

Folks:

The authors of the document, Transport Netwo= rk aware Mobility for 5G, have presented the proposal and the need for stan= dardization in multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of di= scussions in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work f= rom the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this docume= nt as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards track.

Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G
tools.ietf.org/html/draft-= clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08


With this background, we would like to ask t= he WG to provide some feedback on their interest for this work. Please prov= ide substantial comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NO= T be adopted. If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from= AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work.

The adoption call will end on 18th of Januar= y, 2021.

Regards
DMM WG Chairs


_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm


--
=C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
= (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

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Tue, 5 Jan 2021 00:11:54 +0000 From: Linda Dunbar To: "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: Adbi912+VY7ydnK8S7OTNMg1Nppmyg== Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 00:11:54 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [2601:284:8201:3f70:3950:3387:8dda:214d] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d7da7894-2d27-4434-7110-08d8b10e8221 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR13MB2269: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: oOJDnwfkrBUZ2wAmbqKdL9Ju8WxoWU2h+TMzMVsXBDeoR54OOMm2nUXky9efqYHuFZnPTL7vhIoN41QurVkXdDRK3Nx9m9UemTah2xFGyyGu4o+jmKhPKx4EaY0TtEtvYE1cmy/OukJylKL//UDBu7XVOYcw7srjvcNN3v6LuRDMkCXYBJa3p67fAtKEz5QLj+zUuuFWmOhD15GyTbUcly6rHNH4yan5uxNfwF6M5kpIhe4WHYjdLKRr24E4YKgT3XAqucIb7DO8Wxv+MPskJf+ngrvMQ3ZM7jymRUTZGfsCBoC/iqpZbEJCQgkfOOG/BTKqrvna/yHGOKkGOSTGNQvDQuRUIOQxff3Z/DT6+A6w6bD/LcR0JVdv8Skyv4N96ypSsDqXJssGgyU32E/eBLwyin1ItERs5enpEKt+8uNx4XXd51/5ePc4JvdewjYkTmIru5ElcErSCglinJbceQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_SN6PR13MB2334AD398B1B438613DE845085D10SN6PR13MB2334namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SN6PR13MB2334.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d7da7894-2d27-4434-7110-08d8b10e8221 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jan 2021 00:11:54.3023 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0Jshl+FAQpm84o/yyyw/d1Fbt7m1qSqZoGXSIh3D1c6Tmiq9caXhxxNsJQGZ5io+WQfBQd0ske/xDC4GRh9NWA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR13MB2269 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 00:12:00 -0000 --_000_SN6PR13MB2334AD398B1B438613DE845085D10SN6PR13MB2334namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support WG adoption. Linda Dunbar ------------------- From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a= WG document To: dmm > Folks: The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, have = presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple IETF WG= meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mailers and th= ere is some level of interest for the work from the community. We are there= fore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, to be = moved on Informational Standards track. Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedback = on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comments as why= this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is inter= est, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we may ta= ke up this work. The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. Regards DMM WG Chairs _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_SN6PR13MB2334AD398B1B438613DE845085D10SN6PR13MB2334namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support WG adoption.

 

Linda Dunbar

 

-------------------
From: Sr= i Gundavelli (sgundave) <sgundave=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM
Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a= WG document
To: dmm <dmm@ietf.org>=

 

Folks:

 

The authors of the do= cument, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, have presented the proposa= l and the need for standardization in multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in t= he mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from the commun= ity. We are therefore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG= document, to be moved on Informational Standards track.  

 

Transport Network = aware Mobility for 5G

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08<= /a>

 

 

With this background,= we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedback on their interest for= this work. Please provide substantial comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. I= f there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others= , then we may take up this work. 

 

The adoption call wil= l end on 18th of January, 2021. 

 

Regards

DMM WG Chairs<= o:p>

 

 

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

--_000_SN6PR13MB2334AD398B1B438613DE845085D10SN6PR13MB2334namp_-- From nobody Mon Jan 4 16:22:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D553A0BDF for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:22:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1yfa0JQzOy0B for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFDC03A0B86 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8tW34wdQz1pG0L for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:22:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1609806175; bh=nycpQjjqK4jcY4UcMIg67lCtbusz9BV+HSvmCFaBcbw=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ZzX9zC2XED+XBO/aEfSmPyzfD2uEKYg8zvAMYJBAQy1+wHFwABw1bi547lzg94i+4 ymufPn0opGdnpRvdtOJdpfroqSedScSz9x/VhgZ3XCC4aGSMuW/0DKJCP8lENHS2Kg jrShKIRrV0hcasnRkdk8nuNui3sK1Hu99+mJ/BRE= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (unknown [50.225.209.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D8tW31BRBz1nvxx for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:22:55 -0800 (PST) To: "dmm@ietf.org" References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 19:22:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 00:22:57 -0000 Hmmm. It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framework (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices. That work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport" was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF network slicing. Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two competing frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP and works for other use cases? Yours, Joel M. Halpern On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > Support WG adoption. > > Linda Dunbar > > ------------------- > From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > as a WG document > To: dmm > > > Folks: > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, > have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple > IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the > mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from the > community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this document as > a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards track. > > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some > feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial > comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. > If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from > AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > Regards > > DMM WG Chairs > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > From nobody Mon Jan 4 17:39:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A3E3A0CB7 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:39:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dkd7lK5z7c_I for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12on2098.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.243.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1B963A0A0B for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:39:31 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=XhbGp5Gf3LG4RJTck9NylANOMTReUlgBH74PYnaOMzFMboZJ8kmYs+hbMw5bS+5shP3NrGkX/tdWgSJEcdU1ljjoJxmEi+Cpd8yyyQcYVLr1o4FVgwnL5JSXYL4d4BOqLyXDo+3JgC+uHcE+vpMgOgo2lZTUONaaQU++C0HaikkRWzouJ+LVfTP1MgKSzDLkUyjAtpa+x/h8H1V5ptl1EpfnGNq/gwtR4CRm//7T7BmkYoUsdztKtTWmTh1knvr3Jwj1lTtNVohdeclX6BOCyOwac20J7MS0XaxmJBdcIfL6r2MjxIongcsml8RYlFZkXEPitBVHZVYlZCeHZqDjWA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=XKGM8nPu8ITWRsLlJd5tg2LBbO2sy3f7QAan71OPjig=; b=Kp5LdGRRGCzddeROUvbShCddX5QKyEJOYH9ztNEa8HktKzTSoIcupxBUeJFh0oMeMdkhghz5nyudHfkuVMZIwlZCTlvzTBB8ZRwrlsTBsnkvVIwr61iUrTFepIyC6Jatwm3XON/3AJtwLBXlQNj4dV3nh5pR+/EsvtjpMST7bEc3w52RNOpr8sa5x2vUQR0zNLg8i9sJS1H1QqDUfzgl/0ZFi5N5c4rvaKmqy3tCIGKPr+MHRTmCxVIKJvPdecmxW/gUsZQ+eNFC6El+vX2nZItwl/jIKBJONJZVnF1EjYftPAlylMWXTGxl3AzGecs6njdJKhw5C7YIdjtf7u+yYg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=futurewei.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=futurewei.com; dkim=pass header.d=futurewei.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=Futurewei.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=XKGM8nPu8ITWRsLlJd5tg2LBbO2sy3f7QAan71OPjig=; b=L7SGxWWQjEtKvuf2ITHDuW0TEg+2SzGZAPfVEpgDt1mxhmnau2YghqxVY9vgUsmFcLLfF6VD7jbpLEaLsqL7F7gpX9EJ6V09RoOqJHE+kBVUX7+z6pg9F+xvrH9yiX1/zVMp16vnySiBwdY+8ceQTBlIcQCSL0wOgpaB3rvfBHM= Received: from BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:107::31) by BY5PR13MB3857.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:228::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3742.2; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 01:39:29 +0000 Received: from BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::91f5:eec7:5af9:2a79]) by BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::91f5:eec7:5af9:2a79%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3742.006; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 01:39:28 +0000 From: Kiran Makhijani To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: Adbi912+VY7ydnK8S7OTNMg1NppmygAAYsUAAACxNNA= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 01:39:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [73.202.182.183] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b954f229-dc72-4317-579d-08d8b11abe1d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR13MB3857: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4714; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 876mBmyAF5bMvB0X3McaCQ31VtlEJMTtkcep6HtkogVApjEPiUNyRt3JdQnDTcn0tTBxHBEoUtCT0r/59y7cBAHX9C4i9HRNELb1K3qJIz5Uc/mAUh8mw4B1zmcUZ/eLc7gJ9yQ9lSQQqfVsB/Y15xSRa2nGfWYN3B9qIqv1PBa7XppaYWbGTTftSYQ+zm6QM/d46tAQcAN1g5jtKbPLNzTTHAVGvI9xDlVx/yQu2pqy0dqOplLwu2U9tU2vgRajom1LiXHWU3rwGz48DLD3amvmpX/2uNgKsI0eM+xFKaxfEBsuesrAnh/M2KKq4A7lylLwOkZ8t9+oMcXQSCnH+Xs/32IhGRRUyW39UpJKPoThnqyNmA0f1NWRWnDMBmpkJIl8dHa0E6FU6fRVyrzVQDGLT9J8O6yxVCB9Bx05JDc2GGchAvF2oXFZaroRPScQuRzPdOzVTQQFBnRnSHHXdw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(346002)(39840400004)(136003)(396003)(366004)(53546011)(186003)(26005)(33656002)(6506007)(55016002)(9686003)(316002)(76116006)(83380400001)(966005)(45080400002)(2906002)(478600001)(8936002)(8676002)(86362001)(5660300002)(7696005)(52536014)(71200400001)(110136005)(64756008)(66556008)(66946007)(66446008)(66476007); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?eFIHTc6dBUf2xtqQ3W39uYO6/GaK2kYHsBS11yzAIVuKNs6P0mJyeQVz+cx6?= =?us-ascii?Q?+H4YncPfsEgCE6z3P9QIttsEohzFA/GQmYCGWrCaIAVF4XDqj//8BzqACWj1?= =?us-ascii?Q?fBbsO70J+A/GByDJCS/hD0cDgPlW50nmUC39uJWfmrOpCUVL+b8Af7tFuLfs?= =?us-ascii?Q?EO9Eh9YnstTM7Sn8cPDJo/g+dj71WKNA9ysD8VuPMZ+GV5chlWssIX/evvD8?= =?us-ascii?Q?zc9XwLSO5bW6TrLh8/8rkhFVtBuVty7RVvjZrTwdHDCmmGcDDEsBAfye+Zo3?= =?us-ascii?Q?8ewJCmCfBGohyAVjvQuR54PCrzybJ7bZgddWOkZghFflrK8dVZQaMwxdvaED?= =?us-ascii?Q?rg/BSstewjGkVy8Lc4qswcku2xS4KqS30s1b6k9wpeGJBFeNkH2KdJ1txeeM?= =?us-ascii?Q?XJMWPiP7hbOrmY1l+tkiI/Jy8ap2ZiUB9fl5LT2eSBkykMbqtXPTlNYC+dj4?= =?us-ascii?Q?+37T45eGKoVMMepzWgOmze/qXdRKslAJ1QvkjE4Nk76YhvlkdyZmwqpmQONf?= =?us-ascii?Q?RZIxLvfh8Xb1uS1+yDln2RSl0ZQ0w3ZfSz+Zo1Vu2vDY3cII47imtiv/4lRW?= =?us-ascii?Q?RW91fUSFTonb7/hUL77dJL8Qtz/FMvkmEAhLwFMqVuKUhofIyYaZdiGc/zjK?= =?us-ascii?Q?JzwCbuex65mtZGtkz5LwsbYlvZJ5Ij2h9868pyHtfEPeKBUCTG545+108Wy7?= =?us-ascii?Q?l9sCnmChDzp2LiYuIkmpmoOwDq9GIPTjWk4luAsguBsUfjRe4aNBTnRYBRU4?= =?us-ascii?Q?zk1fWU5xfexrGw4u7H0q41n7qG8dPHKu8kVfOaj5oIIDebI1VZh/6m8dQPex?= =?us-ascii?Q?EzRdzIvi9fKcwHA/7xhoSYIpNeBQH4mVaNnUNORD1IScqTZE1KFk2jdMVsdz?= =?us-ascii?Q?m8cMzqCd6S09eUjXUT2p/zjx+z7gQ44PYe3mc5yTHanxIQdX/jia2U7Ufs/n?= =?us-ascii?Q?J0ITP23R/rxT9XEZJIhXF9TbY7hw+vhlw8CsAfZ/DrQ=3D?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b954f229-dc72-4317-579d-08d8b11abe1d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jan 2021 01:39:28.8346 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 5Z58nFYv5DH6q2Z7IjtfLVLdsGcmZ5qweMlErnnDVGRQviSUiR9parQWynYoHLDbEQnUFiMaxUTRJ8QWWXxKAA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB3857 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 01:39:33 -0000 Hi Joel,=20 The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing sli= ces 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just one of t= he use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace "transport= " because it could mean different things.=20 But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily relie= s on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport network= ' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers mobility pr= ocedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs. I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 activi= ties should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice terminology/framework), ma= ybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a major change to the way proced= ures are described in the document. =20 I support this work.=20 FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its readabil= ity. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background' and 'TN= mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and management of TN conte= xt and its mobility. -Kiran > -----Original Message----- > From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM > To: dmm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-0= 8 as > a WG document >=20 > Hmmm. >=20 > It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work in= the > TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framework > (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices. Th= at > work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. >=20 > First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport" > was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF > network slicing. >=20 > Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two compet= ing > frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fall squarely= into > CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP and > works for other use cases? >=20 > Yours, > Joel M. Halpern >=20 > On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > Support WG adoption. > > > > Linda Dunbar > > > > ------------------- > > From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > > > > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > > Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > as a WG document > > To: dmm > > > > > Folks: > > > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, > > have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in > > multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions > > in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from > > the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this > > document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards > track. > > > > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo= l > > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > 08&data=3D04%7C0 > > > 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C > 0fee8f > > > f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn > own%7CTW > > > FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > I6 > > > Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU > 8%2BH72rW > > I%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > 08&data=3D04%7C > > > 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7 > C0fee8 > > > ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk > nown%7CT > > > WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX > VCI > > > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DYR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq > BXA0w%3 > > D&reserved=3D0> > > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some > > feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial > > comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be > adopted. > > If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from > > AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. > > > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > > > Regards > > > > DMM WG Chairs > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . > > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > uture > > > wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > 3a1d5 > > > 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > 8eyJWIjoiM > > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > amp;s > > > data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > ved=3D0 > > > > > .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > utur > > > ewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7 > 53a1d > > > 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 > d8eyJWIjoi > > > MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 > & > > > sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&rese > rved=3D > > 0> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . > > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > uture > > > wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > 3a1d5 > > > 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > 8eyJWIjoiM > > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > amp;s > > > data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > ved=3D0 > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= e > tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fut > urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189 > c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF > pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t > apfTKY771c%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Mon Jan 4 17:46:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86983A0CBA for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:46:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WZRLzaNYqspc for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:46:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 208333A0CB8 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:46:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8wMG6cx7z1pG0N; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:46:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1609811178; bh=NnNE/nKUI3TjtYPrfCKTJB9Lh2L7/NNh4F7buT4spw8=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=kkg6QcOv1Fc0JtuCfdsS4sutQCW6yA3pH7ZORerMmz+a4WCsRUHB4HjH3DhJSggPA 5uUrN1FWvcP2Zi49qxtAIQjQdJ253lbbdBfQwigDPxszb50QBo2BDRzM9+fURMDst3 jFFWCOQ5SDjL+yOiJMoNxcqDFh7kmwEbWiObvKpk= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (unknown [50.225.209.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D8wMG1xgPz1p4Tv; Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:46:18 -0800 (PST) To: Kiran Makhijani , "Joel M. Halpern" , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 20:46:17 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 01:46:21 -0000 Kiran, the TEAS work is focused on defining the structures and semantics for an interface to request services from what 3GPP calls a transport network. It seems really odd for another working group to define how to map to the "transport" network differently from the way TEAS is defining it. If the TEAS definitions are wrong, we need to fix them. If they are right, we need to use them. Having another document that attempts to define the mapping separately seems like a recipe for difficulties. Yours, Joel On 1/4/2021 8:39 PM, Kiran Makhijani wrote: > Hi Joel, > The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing slices 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just one of the use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace "transport" because it could mean different things. > > But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily relies on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport network' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers mobility procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs. > > I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 activities should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice terminology/framework), maybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a major change to the way procedures are described in the document. > > I support this work. > FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its readability. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background' and 'TN mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and management of TN context and its mobility. > > -Kiran > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM >> To: dmm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as >> a WG document >> >> Hmmm. >> >> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work in the >> TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framework >> (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices. That >> work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. >> >> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport" >> was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF >> network slicing. >> >> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two competing >> frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fall squarely into >> CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP and >> works for other use cases? >> >> Yours, >> Joel M. Halpern >> >> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: >>> Support WG adoption. >>> >>> Linda Dunbar >>> >>> ------------------- >>> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* >> > >>> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM >>> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 >>> as a WG document >>> To: dmm > >>> >>> Folks: >>> >>> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, >>> have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in >>> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions >>> in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from >>> the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this >>> document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards >> track. >>> >>> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* >>> >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftool >>> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- >> 08&data=04%7C0 >>> >> 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C >> 0fee8f >>> >> f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn >> own%7CTW >>> >> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC >> I6 >>> >> Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU >> 8%2BH72rW >>> I%3D&reserved=0 >>> >> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- >> 08&data=04%7C >>> >> 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7 >> C0fee8 >>> >> ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk >> nown%7CT >>> >> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX >> VCI >>> >> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=YR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq >> BXA0w%3 >>> D&reserved=0> >>> >>> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some >>> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial >>> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be >> adopted. >>> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from >>> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. >>> >>> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> DMM WG Chairs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dmm mailing list >>> dmm@ietf.org >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >>> >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f >> uture >>> >> wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 >> 3a1d5 >>> >> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d >> 8eyJWIjoiM >>> >> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& >> amp;s >>> >> data=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser >> ved=0 >>> >> >> >> .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f >> utur >>> >> ewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7 >> 53a1d >>> >> 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 >> d8eyJWIjoi >>> >> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 >> & >>> >> sdata=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&rese >> rved= >>> 0> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dmm mailing list >>> dmm@ietf.org >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >>> >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f >> uture >>> >> wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 >> 3a1d5 >>> >> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d >> 8eyJWIjoiM >>> >> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& >> amp;s >>> >> data=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser >> ved=0 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dmm mailing list >> dmm@ietf.org >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie >> tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fut >> urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189 >> c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF >> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI >> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t >> apfTKY771c%3D&reserved=0 From nobody Tue Jan 5 01:00:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B7B93A0FEB for ; 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Tue, 5 Jan 2021 08:59:51 +0000 From: "Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Kiran Makhijani , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: Adbi912+VY7ydnK8S7OTNMg1NppmygAAYsUAAACxNNAAAjhNgAAO5Ipg Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 08:59:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia-bell-labs.com; x-originating-ip: [91.154.146.213] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d1dd10a3-6925-4503-10ff-08d8b15842f4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR0701MB2441: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4714; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: PuskSlN1ZwKeE+A2Z2CplQJ7LRN2uYVLcgQf0BIeO80zYFsQ5SZH6w1nVM0JxNo4PzRdP0c+HVUkMtmHRO8u4JturAYY6j9RN4HKzIQN9J46Xob5PAVBuBrDgPT6oG0aJhHDqGqkaXankY0QDSN/TQKoolIZMfbhUqxCfw55/HnO2nVeKTzsoXxP4BYINcUan0CEIhQsM+zuFNwq1sM6yHQAGArn1Iw2VJtHCQ/VWPMQ8Pa36E22gqDVr3chqbm2+jeIZE2xah11pzggGeheALK3cuGkW6mQOfidElXYna7l71QkB/7Ge67Pfza8++4CxYrTl/LlOCQQEe3Gov9eVcECywFpVh49O58rgZW5dSpSjrbLvfp86HacS3jp8EnzqrG8aRcMwb/1XYzHisqhGXxeel5MSCuQbQXdmdpbXq4pSBDh0Rs49HnLMQ/8odEUKKu9UrLqBEUb9JwQmIXGxQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:HE1PR07MB3386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(396003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(136003)(366004)(7696005)(110136005)(83380400001)(2906002)(186003)(8936002)(86362001)(5660300002)(45080400002)(52536014)(966005)(6506007)(53546011)(478600001)(64756008)(66946007)(66446008)(66556008)(66476007)(71200400001)(8676002)(26005)(316002)(55016002)(9686003)(33656002)(76116006); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?AF7L9qi00LRNNHKt7o9mDCbgFsh3CCn5xalVgBi06NOl2k1c2H+Rzk67mW1A?= =?us-ascii?Q?sIxY2SpYRtXjbZsOK3RpUa0sU2JXdCQjO4PFcy7KutYjkHAwYMYKIGQekk1R?= =?us-ascii?Q?7EKHug/+3r3Q89P8zKfc4Rsg0oFCBuaO94P0l7iO8WhQFmK4g1ZqZfjRxd4C?= =?us-ascii?Q?4RisqiMTfd8FmyBAa9OM41qMi4SG3nutjZm16YAPLicnq4RPQH4dRnnv66Wr?= =?us-ascii?Q?zetUtMx+SCATeSJp2K/LveOHGGonYDUWGhw4yA6etRzOEaUCoUTe78TrrzS2?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZAFHpcGN9f43O50g6TBD7Uw05moRuzIwUztaEJ176Zc7ykE+4Tw68H0JKtZI?= =?us-ascii?Q?78eQBg8l2KVPACvpKA8S6UHlckNjvNqx5ncceeN+2I30x7omD+wN/SXuqJpR?= =?us-ascii?Q?cB+DfmVCSyvcWXkllKYjRCg1pX0wspa8InqDu7bDDAmNzeVvBPCWhw6W1sxs?= =?us-ascii?Q?glh21gUomTPW37SlH/l+egom4M3/jAkmCZY/2i5btU1yBUrefSW0k0X17xTU?= =?us-ascii?Q?TxOCnUJvO9BpXkpvd87wwunIXgbahBR+7ROooW6Wz84Le0ZhOaz8dsvVhB66?= =?us-ascii?Q?mU9RE6SL1PreDTj3s/n9otCY39bvR7iVb9bcERW3hPqTunep9bsfdNQg8Pww?= =?us-ascii?Q?S3vX9NHaRukq6CQkWk5EgY9fM9qi4JUDzgyx2JdS6zaSaBcW5AVvhV0TtLNS?= =?us-ascii?Q?veSpW6PqIdheKsN8vZ6Y0IwesiPsr9jGmSXNNk1Qyzq7dW7mCRt0qbu5WhYN?= =?us-ascii?Q?jaj528j3Y88lSLvPEUxmRrp6GNa5ulvaY8pAB/uWLJ3q1Nm3qQxkGxN5c623?= =?us-ascii?Q?mvsqkSxCIj9abSV54520xys3nJP/nC6N2CdoiHArugyfug+lx61TsmVWz+BZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?hSf4jD5t6c8ppCBXOXs/Cdlf68yDNu8F5NXlPS81fUztmTSkMAgshK2Vcs5b?= =?us-ascii?Q?9z73E2ZmVLYho8VxXh0N+LG6itXVXovx9sy/5DxlnGk=3D?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia-bell-labs.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HE1PR07MB3386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d1dd10a3-6925-4503-10ff-08d8b15842f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jan 2021 08:59:51.0485 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Rs1ar9josZoTeo+hrWpp7KEp2DhK8F/MOoC+2xlqZQBZF9DPQOewRpSkEARz+a+N/VkECJIsQyJQkqRezdiKkKLB8u+4jeQNpIlZTLEWa9HZHreKSdVVACBSZrC6BPjE X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2441 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 09:00:11 -0000 Hello=20 I raised the same concern in the last meeting as Joel now in his mail. The = authors then told that the work is aligned with TEAS. But it seems not to b= e clear after all. It would help to start the alignment by adding a refer to TEAS slicing draf= ts. And the use it in the text... Best regards Hannu -----Original Message----- From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:46 AM To: Kiran Makhijani ; Joel M. Halpern ; dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 = as a WG document Kiran, the TEAS work is focused on defining the structures and semantics fo= r an interface to request services from what 3GPP calls a transport network= . It seems really odd for another working group to define how to map to th= e "transport" network differently from the way TEAS is defining=20 it. If the TEAS definitions are wrong, we need to fix them. If they=20 are right, we need to use them. Having another document that attempts to d= efine the mapping separately seems like a recipe for difficulties. Yours, Joel On 1/4/2021 8:39 PM, Kiran Makhijani wrote: > Hi Joel, > The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing s= lices 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just one of= the use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace "transpo= rt" because it could mean different things. >=20 > But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily rel= ies on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport netwo= rk' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers mobility = procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs. >=20 > I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 acti= vities should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice terminology/framework), = maybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a major change to the way proc= edures are described in the document. >=20 > I support this work. > FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its readab= ility. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background' and '= TN mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and management of TN con= text and its mobility. >=20 > -Kiran >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM >> To: dmm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of=20 >> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document >> >> Hmmm. >> >> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing=20 >> work in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define=20 >> terminology and framework (and then any necessary protocol=20 >> mechanisms) for IETF network slices. That work is explicitly intended t= o support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. >> >> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport" >> was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called=20 >> IETF network slicing. >> >> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two=20 >> competing frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to=20 >> fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that=20 >> works for 3GPP and works for other use cases? >> >> Yours, >> Joel M. Halpern >> >> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: >>> Support WG adoption. >>> >>> Linda Dunbar >>> >>> ------------------- >>> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)*=20 >>> >> > >>> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM >>> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of=20 >>> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 >>> as a WG document >>> To: dmm > >>> >>> Folks: >>> >>> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for=20 >>> 5G, have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in=20 >>> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of=20 >>> discussions in the mailers and there is some level of interest for=20 >>> the work from the community. We are therefore considering the=20 >>> adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on=20 >>> Informational Standards >> track. >>> >>> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* >>> >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fto >>> ol >>> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- >> 08&data=3D04%7C0 >>> >> 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C >> 0fee8f >>> >> f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn >> own%7CTW >>> >> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC >> I6 >>> >> Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU >> 8%2BH72rW >>> I%3D&reserved=3D0 >>> >> oo >>> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- >> 08&data=3D04%7C >>> >> 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7 >> C0fee8 >>> >> ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk >> nown%7CT >>> >> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX >> VCI >>> >> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DYR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq >> BXA0w%3 >>> D&reserved=3D0> >>> >>> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some=20 >>> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial=20 >>> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be >> adopted. >>> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from=20 >>> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. >>> >>> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> DMM WG Chairs >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dmm mailing list >>> dmm@ietf.org >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . >>> >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f >> uture >>> >> wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 >> 3a1d5 >>> >> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d >> 8eyJWIjoiM >>> >> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& >> amp;s >>> >> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser >> ved=3D0 >>> >> > w >>> >> .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f >> utur >>> >> ewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7 >> 53a1d >>> >> 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 >> d8eyJWIjoi >>> >> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 >> & >>> >> sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&rese >> rved=3D >>> 0> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dmm mailing list >>> dmm@ietf.org >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww= . >>> >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f >> uture >>> >> wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 >> 3a1d5 >>> >> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d >> 8eyJWIjoiM >>> >> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& >> amp;s >>> >> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser >> ved=3D0 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dmm mailing list >> dmm@ietf.org >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww >> .ie tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fut >> urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189 >> c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF >> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI >> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t >> apfTKY771c%3D&reserved=3D0 _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm From nobody Tue Jan 5 08:10:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5863A105D for ; 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Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:09:51 +0000 From: Kiran Makhijani To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: Adbi912+VY7ydnK8S7OTNMg1NppmygAAYsUAAACxNNAAAjhNgAAdIYgw Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:09:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [73.202.182.183] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 06ddae0f-ae4b-414f-18e9-08d8b19454f8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR13MB4198: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4714; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: /3jod7gOum49SbEoma1eHrSPhnWpZKb4Cmd8LZTn4lEGnL0B6U1RsJtuWPuGFKMd9wUm+e6hr8TmVwqQ9gc5oad6OMmQfxKGwZSmgkhCHSqY8SZtE2c/eGOUj/TfhcRsccoBlMZiZXqMxLuC0oOfrixtL0c1Ej2PbLJFpn5bGPAgEd1oqB5bqmObfms1vvJFSRw948Au0mFmZ0ZqC9edlqOFCZmLTwSEVEF0v5GNQXoGpsvHJCpUctEzdz0QUUKGjOO7J5sThXsqS5eh5gQnxUk7Z7DHgaqJohEjlcKmoucqDKDkoobwm7uabXmKIuM5XxnLLUowY1h8zxmkUgw7lLPt1rgeSMXGIM/nn9THL5EaasoZKExviO8MLBzgfPhY1+KEjiDQSNDEwj8vaa1LYQ9YhIoApOe37EzEQRt+/o10B372k/vJXhvcpBR3uckP9kf5p/a20opV+vXIzxeyCg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(396003)(366004)(346002)(376002)(39840400004)(136003)(53546011)(66446008)(186003)(64756008)(66556008)(8676002)(66476007)(5660300002)(66946007)(86362001)(2906002)(6506007)(110136005)(478600001)(966005)(71200400001)(8936002)(9686003)(76116006)(33656002)(7696005)(83380400001)(55016002)(52536014)(45080400002)(316002)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?TEf8AdKfPUAe0SpIzOI1aS8LJpSimTkFlAnh+fpKG8zitSq3Z4fdir6WneFK?= =?us-ascii?Q?5JWTTGqHwA379vPGAvJHyrvXU1rSPRO9LArHkgtmaskJkgElK5y74Oikov4x?= =?us-ascii?Q?Hoqkug/kwyh6OWZKTcaHihaU4ZwgIDZWH/1TddlGOqI6DPXnnlD100O68HSW?= =?us-ascii?Q?SlvrkejHheaisdCrQlxWtr5QrdxFrK63fnoPlak++8Y4DK/TprT2j9W8yvoP?= =?us-ascii?Q?/mpeAALWKO2/Bvo19+B+ptbndFmR7Oikkjt3sLQorPnjZUo7zRgRV3vFu5zV?= =?us-ascii?Q?ltCqUGpGGjoi/mqooZZWc4yQ5M/irFeOqL6xISJWNERZhLqMGPxFyXyLFWAZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?RNzuGfcl4kuWeVedr4a9Po7VT710y8rhHBAYC7wFb0wuQOavZkKTjDv9PLES?= =?us-ascii?Q?0SGHTwSpDZjbmGBFY3VFin28WMZ6em4wBOOA7K5KRbKW8yxc4OYFFiuETQXx?= =?us-ascii?Q?coVFGMj4jqtix0PtVFPP7mm8f2wEfC47RBq/kPpWzHbYzXfL9uzXnZ0SvLPu?= =?us-ascii?Q?LsSf0tMAVFgBUqXI3+yLgXCFGZ/fCLPs1/42aThoPJuA30/M9bKb+4b7Ee3b?= =?us-ascii?Q?xfVbip6HDBgFuSYVE3qwp1gTSItoupLC8aqAKD+wpeuj3HuNhCWKzD1RmSbP?= =?us-ascii?Q?fxcbuKhR1vt8Px6lMqffrUs6YXl7GeldLgO4xc5ywP5S/0ErcEVHB6nDmINq?= =?us-ascii?Q?D1wQ653sw4Ce710hWAialhXTjudXC8m/sznyQvSC58nSz2mkwzkewGkhalk/?= =?us-ascii?Q?Q9lHbJS24otLhwgTjV6uZ0xh9n6NjTaFVfVeGJDPMiknfOuxq7NqwpVY2AYo?= =?us-ascii?Q?0RMxBgNxgedMDiifkWgmNFXrq8E59h//Aaq0yh2vUdhrJUCTdV1qz1RqwJpa?= =?us-ascii?Q?KHAoaHjzip0nouBqVK3x8YybveXy4cxvlBtY20KtaDl02bdjNIwqz60KLpQz?= =?us-ascii?Q?xRCry25SXP32nkt3wBrM1kh695wrPYlJgxwRkQrn95I=3D?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR13MB4197.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 06ddae0f-ae4b-414f-18e9-08d8b19454f8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jan 2021 16:09:51.0917 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8kvoq8TCx2WFgAGq5HAAlqwzEx4yDWKKo8k2ZBOVHL/Ts36P6/Trx+fUy3fT0idDUJekLNwDuIvzpSFbuh4uUg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB4198 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 16:10:02 -0000 Joel,=20 I should let authors clarify further.=20 >From what I understood, TN-mobility is non-conflicting to IETF-slice defini= tions/framework. Because, in TEAS, we create a logical IETF slice by mappin= g underlying network infrastructure (IP/optical), mobility document does no= t care about that part. It does the connection of this existing IETF logica= l slice to RAN-slice with the help of management entity above the network s= lice controller. This is inline with IETF-NS framework and progressing in p= arallel. I 100% agree with the basic sentiment that TEAS should be informed about th= is work and document should explain alignment with IETF NS framework.=20 -Kiran > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 5:46 PM > To: Kiran Makhijani ; Joel M. Halpern > ; dmm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-0= 8 as > a WG document >=20 > Kiran, the TEAS work is focused on defining the structures and semantics = for an > interface to request services from what 3GPP calls a transport network. = It > seems really odd for another working group to define how to map to the > "transport" network differently from the way TEAS is defining > it. If the TEAS definitions are wrong, we need to fix them. If they > are right, we need to use them. Having another document that attempts to > define the mapping separately seems like a recipe for difficulties. >=20 > Yours, > Joel >=20 > On 1/4/2021 8:39 PM, Kiran Makhijani wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing > slices 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just one= of the > use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace "transport" > because it could mean different things. > > > > But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily r= elies > on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport network= ' is > a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers mobility > procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs. > > > > I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 > activities should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice terminology/framew= ork), > maybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a major change to the way > procedures are described in the document. > > > > I support this work. > > FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its read= ability. > For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background' and 'TN mo= bility > procedure' - things related to mapping and management of TN context and i= ts > mobility. > > > > -Kiran > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > >> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM > >> To: dmm@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > >> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > >> > >> Hmmm. > >> > >> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing > >> work in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define > >> terminology and framework (and then any necessary protocol > >> mechanisms) for IETF network slices. That work is explicitly intended= to > support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. > >> > >> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transpor= t" > >> was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called > >> IETF network slicing. > >> > >> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two > >> competing frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to > >> fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that > >> works for 3GPP and works for other use cases? > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel M. Halpern > >> > >> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > >>> Support WG adoption. > >>> > >>> Linda Dunbar > >>> > >>> ------------------- > >>> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > >>> >>> > > >>> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > >>> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of > >>> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > >>> as a WG document > >>> To: dmm > > >>> > >>> Folks: > >>> > >>> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for > >>> 5G, have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in > >>> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of > >>> discussions in the mailers and there is some level of interest for > >>> the work from the community. We are therefore considering the > >>> adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on > >>> Informational Standards > >> track. > >>> > >>> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > >>> > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ft= o > >>> ol > >>> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > >> 08&data=3D04%7C0 > >>> > >> > 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C > >> 0fee8f > >>> > >> > f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn > >> own%7CTW > >>> > >> > FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > >> I6 > >>> > >> > Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU > >> 8%2BH72rW > >>> I%3D&reserved=3D0 > >>> >>> oo > >>> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > >> 08&data=3D04%7C > >>> > >> > 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7 > >> C0fee8 > >>> > >> > ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk > >> nown%7CT > >>> > >> > WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX > >> VCI > >>> > >> > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DYR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq > >> BXA0w%3 > >>> D&reserved=3D0> > >>> > >>> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some > >>> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial > >>> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be > >> adopted. > >>> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from > >>> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. > >>> > >>> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> DMM WG Chairs > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dmm mailing list > >>> dmm@ietf.org > >>> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > >>> > >> > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > >> uture > >>> > >> > wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > >> 3a1d5 > >>> > >> > 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > >> 8eyJWIjoiM > >>> > >> > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > >> amp;s > >>> > >> > data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > >> ved=3D0 > >>> > >> >> w > >>> > >> > .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > >> utur > >>> > >> > ewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7 > >> 53a1d > >>> > >> > 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 > >> d8eyJWIjoi > >>> > >> > MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 > >> & > >>> > >> > sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&rese > >> rved=3D > >>> 0> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dmm mailing list > >>> dmm@ietf.org > >>> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > >>> > >> > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > >> uture > >>> > >> > wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > >> 3a1d5 > >>> > >> > 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > >> 8eyJWIjoiM > >>> > >> > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > >> amp;s > >>> > >> > data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > >> ved=3D0 > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dmm mailing list > >> dmm@ietf.org > >> > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww > >> .ie > tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fut > >> > urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189 > >> > c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF > >> > pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI > >> > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t > >> apfTKY771c%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Tue Jan 5 14:13:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8AF3A09B5 for ; 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Tue, 05 Jan 2021 14:13:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 14:13:31 -0800 Message-ID: To: dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fc2c4c05b82e849d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 22:13:50 -0000 --000000000000fc2c4c05b82e849d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Kiran, Thanks for your support and your inputs as a co-authoring member of TEAS ongoing work. See in-line [Uma]: -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 5:39 PM Kiran Makhijani wrote: > Hi Joel, > The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing > slices 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just one > of the use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace > "transport" because it could mean different things. > > But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily > relies on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport > network' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers > mobility procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs. > > I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 > activities should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice > terminology/framework), maybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a > major change to the way procedures are described in the document. > Thanks for your observation. The content in the sections was not changed much from early stages of the draft (may by in early 2019). I definitely look forward to your specific input to further update. > > I support this work. > FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its > readability. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background' > and 'TN mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and management of > TN context and its mobility. > [Uma]: Noted and keep this in our TBD item(s) for future updates. Shall respond to Joel's email in a bit. > > -Kiran > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > > Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM > > To: dmm@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as > > a WG document > > > > Hmmm. > > > > It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work > in the > > TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framework > > (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices. > That > > work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. > > > > First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport" > > was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF > > network slicing. > > > > Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two > competing > > frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fall > squarely into > > CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP and > > works for other use cases? > > > > Yours, > > Joel M. Halpern > > > > On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > > Support WG adoption. > > > > > > Linda Dunbar > > > > > > ------------------- > > > From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > > > > > > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > > > Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > > as a WG document > > > To: dmm > > > > > > > Folks: > > > > > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, > > > have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in > > > multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions > > > in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from > > > the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this > > > document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards > > track. > > > > > > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > > > > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftool > > > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > > 08&data=04%7C0 > > > > > 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C > > 0fee8f > > > > > f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn > > own%7CTW > > > > > FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > > I6 > > > > > Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU > > 8%2BH72rW > > > I%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > > 08&data=04%7C > > > > > 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7 > > C0fee8 > > > > > ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk > > nown%7CT > > > > > WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX > > VCI > > > > > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=YR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq > > BXA0w%3 > > > D&reserved=0> > > > > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some > > > feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial > > > comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be > > adopted. > > > If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from > > > AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. > > > > > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > DMM WG Chairs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dmm mailing list > > > dmm@ietf.org > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > > > > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > > uture > > > > > wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > > 3a1d5 > > > > > 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > > 8eyJWIjoiM > > > > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > > amp;s > > > > > data=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > > ved=0 > > > > > > > > > .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > > utur > > > > > ewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7 > > 53a1d > > > > > 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 > > d8eyJWIjoi > > > > > MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 > > & > > > > > sdata=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&rese > > rved= > > > 0> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dmm mailing list > > > dmm@ietf.org > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > > > > > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > > uture > > > > > wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > > 3a1d5 > > > > > 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > > 8eyJWIjoiM > > > > > C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > > amp;s > > > > > data=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > > ved=0 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie > > tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fut > > urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189 > > c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF > > pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI > > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=pB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t > > apfTKY771c%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --000000000000fc2c4c05b82e849d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kiran,

Thanks for your su= pport and=C2=A0 your inputs as a co-authoring member of TEAS ongoing=C2=A0 = work.
=C2=A0
See in-line [Uma]:

--
Uma C.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 5:39 PM Kiran Makhijani <kiranm@futurewei.com> wrote:
Hi Joel,
The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing sli= ces 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just = one of the use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace &q= uot;transport" because it could mean different things.

But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily relie= s on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport net= work' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers mob= ility procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs.

I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 activi= ties should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice terminology/framework), ma= ybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a major change to the way proced= ures are described in the document.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Thanks for your observation. The content in the sections was not chan= ged much from early stages of the draft (may by in early 2019). I definitel= y=C2=A0look forward to your specific input to further update.

I support this work.
FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its readabil= ity. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background'= and 'TN mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and manage= ment of TN context and its mobility.
=C2=A0
= [Uma]: Noted and keep this in our TBD item(s) for future updates. Shall res= pond to Joel's email in a bit.
=C2=A0

-Kiran

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM
> To: dmm@ietf.org=
> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobilit= y-08 as
> a WG document
>
> Hmmm.
>
> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work= in the
> TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framew= ork
> (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices.= =C2=A0 That
> work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices.=
>
> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Tra= nsport"
> was confusing and misleading.=C2=A0 Which is why the work is now calle= d IETF
> network slicing.
>
> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two com= peting
> frameworks.=C2=A0 Why is DMM doing this separately.=C2=A0 It seems to = fall squarely into
> CCAMP and TEAS.=C2=A0 I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP= and
> works for other use cases?
>
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
>
> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> > Support WG adoption.
> >
> > Linda Dunbar
> >
> > -------------------
> > From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* <sgundave=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a>
> > <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
> > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM
> > Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobili= ty-08
> > as a WG document
> > To: dmm <dmm= @ietf.org <mailto:= dmm@ietf.org>>
> >
> > Folks:
> >
> > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for= 5G,
> > have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in > > multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discuss= ions
> > in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work f= rom
> > the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this<= br> > > document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Stand= ards
> track.
> >
> > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G*
> >
> > https://nam11.safe= links.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool
> > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-
> 08&amp;data=3D04%7C0
> >
> 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C
> 0fee8f
> >
> f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn
> own%7CTW
> >
> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > I6
> >
> Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU > 8%2BH72rW
> > I%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
> > <https://nam11.s= afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo
> > ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-
> 08&amp;data=3D04%7C
> >
> 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7
> C0fee8
> >
> ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk
> nown%7CT
> >
> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX > VCI
> >
> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DYR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq<= br> > BXA0w%3
> > D&amp;reserved=3D0>
> >
> > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some=
> > feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substant= ial
> > comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be > adopted.
> > If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from
> > AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work.
> >
> > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > DMM WG Chairs
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dmm mailing list
> > dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org= >
> > https://nam11.safel= inks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >
> ietf.= org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f
> uture
> >
> wei.co= m%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75
> 3a1d5
> >
> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
> 8eyJWIjoiM
> >
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&<= br> > amp;s
> >
> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&amp;rese= r
> ved=3D0
> >
> <https://nam11.safeli= nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww
> >
> .ietf= .org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f
> utur
> >
> ewei.= com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7
> 53a1d
> >
> 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
> d8eyJWIjoi
> >
> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000
> &amp;
> >
> sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&amp;res= e
> rved=3D
> > 0>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dmm mailing list
> > dmm@ietf.org
> > https://nam11.safel= inks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >
> ietf.= org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f
> uture
> >
> wei.co= m%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75
> 3a1d5
> >
> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
> 8eyJWIjoiM
> >
> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&<= br> > amp;s
> >
> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&amp;rese= r
> ved=3D0
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> dmm mailing list
> dmm@ietf.org
> https://nam11.safelin= ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie
> tf.org<= /a>%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fut
> ure= wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189
> c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF
> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t > apfTKY771c%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

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Tue, 5 Jan 2021 22:28:21 +0000 From: "Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" To: Linda Dunbar , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: Adbi912+VY7ydnK8S7OTNMg1NppmygAuk1sG Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 22:28:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: futurewei.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;futurewei.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [135.245.20.7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 057f76a0-f436-4f9e-518b-08d8b1c9354b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR08MB5147: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: gwcZJpkjJeLcZmrC4sOXeTzEEkCj5pC5O7J2Hhj1aTm1MxqW3Map4LQmAuGtGF1XCsWdBPJIkbUlHiLV8QEVUNbnbo+zsxZudB/GHW/ELzSWdN7nMOlCqNcsrY5uUAGErGpUHnEwMcKTccmYo0i7U2cmoyxejyPi1nLhiXrWb1Whpl23BVf7OY+aOTa37XJs6zaDWks8RD7Gs0cMNb9ikX92yzGv5o3AhgtMOE97JFBZw1FxVP5aFO0qyjtpE5qUjq5lE7WFtA/bmT04Xd8VZKAHPSqQk+XYeUs56jrYDfNWO7DmzIxswd1n8H9t/9BYmX5en7hNb9Rjc4+pws5/MpRvbYMYh7RXvkGefj8i6SqApLGkEcZkqJQvk02u7yIGSqMHcXrxMDSUZnemMmw36CKPmlr6lEEyR+dpSEYhvOnw6PsqSWcq9apKKk5YVsRPBSoIY5mE2duAVRfz39dYUw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR08MB50203F4432518BFED5F6C4F3EAD10DM6PR08MB5020namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR08MB5020.namprd08.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 057f76a0-f436-4f9e-518b-08d8b1c9354b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jan 2021 22:28:21.2607 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: E6T+3eZKyYk14WRSEeYU3kB4A2uPyiLoBVOJ4b1ZUEi3PAulnv4mQ8fsLPzy0tuLEHp5vR8cE2/9AVaMRAY7ow== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR08MB5147 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 22:28:31 -0000 --_000_DM6PR08MB50203F4432518BFED5F6C4F3EAD10DM6PR08MB5020namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As co-author Support WG adoption. -Praveen ------------------- From: Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a= WG document To: dmm > Folks: The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, have = presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple IETF WG= meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mailers and th= ere is some level of interest for the work from the community. We are there= fore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, to be = moved on Informational Standards track. Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedback = on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comments as why= this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is inter= est, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we may ta= ke up this work. The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. Regards DMM WG Chairs _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_DM6PR08MB50203F4432518BFED5F6C4F3EAD10DM6PR08MB5020namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

As co-author

 

Support WG adoption.

 

-Praveen

 

-------------------
From: Sr= i Gundavelli (sgundave) <sgundave=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM
Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a= WG document
To: dmm <dmm@ietf.org>=

 

Folks:

 

The authors of the do= cument, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, have presented the proposa= l and the need for standardization in multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in t= he mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from the commun= ity. We are therefore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG= document, to be moved on Informational Standards track.  

 

Transport Network = aware Mobility for 5G

htt= ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08=

 

 

With this background,= we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedback on their interest for= this work. Please provide substantial comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. I= f there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others= , then we may take up this work. 

 

The adoption call wil= l end on 18th of January, 2021. 

 

Regards

DMM WG Chairs<= o:p>

 

 

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
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Halpern" , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: Adbi912+VY7ydnK8S7OTNMg1NppmygAAYsUAAC5PfoA= Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 22:33:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [12.111.81.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 56fae54a-5188-41ca-aec8-08d8b1c9f3a2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA0PR13MB4063: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: FSTXLZKhcqtGG323aPYdtsB76zHOkWt608OGKgP5hyDL4L6DFB0FAWhDroYBMXyLvY6O/MlilRd1Frw8bVpotB8eJvu0AxP6svG+HqeV+4oR9hJvIHwxfPSqFv/H2657OUNp8umPDuUQ13BOhqHZqj3GyL+r7BT8BoyJwc/PS6Px2fDAdx6g3GXZD4TwfMAIvpdwY8WDOIGxm16FTtgWZOk5PyU+wAEiBE4ns73Pw1GI705ufZ+thWK/uZABysKkglkzhLKqqrdf3O0bvIS6cNLWCR/+7ZsRfyZgrylmXAS6FEcyGTmuIvsMnwrg2mqGf/+MjabgHKZEM6DWTieyMYu6qGF007yNICWlWoMY3watu9z2/96bIKURY29IJ5GdYhoExWjwNmxsRz73cUyjyNwQTKZa1qvqiDSoFdIwEEtHYsPWkxeOeAV5AvAS7iaPjF5cQZ7nwOT60OwshxMHqQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SA0PR13MB4080.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(396003)(39840400004)(376002)(366004)(136003)(71200400001)(7696005)(83380400001)(2906002)(316002)(86362001)(186003)(110136005)(8936002)(8676002)(64756008)(5660300002)(66476007)(66446008)(76116006)(9686003)(6506007)(53546011)(55016002)(66946007)(52536014)(26005)(45080400002)(33656002)(966005)(478600001)(66556008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?MftQQNaSVc9gd8w+tLhi2aSuVRO6ZftdQR5glEUSo1zTVJMgS8AyjaCzH8bY?= =?us-ascii?Q?BNFh0GAPrKrbvYW7EWvB+RgLd2HGPiLlI7jy/w0A91leNrPtyBbq8dcNAZzY?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZpmGnSUYUelTz5h+2J+T/umtYNChhAD5QXWYva+VsPDXUSFD33AJY68a3tEt?= =?us-ascii?Q?6kYuH5WMdkDnZKQZdx69tjcCbGOtJVf2nahyjRE5hX40WiLxBkYJAHzjtU1c?= =?us-ascii?Q?OK/KL6O6Fp1wVkjI+pgZIbt2xNgT0OL1G+omVvMf6I1HDFJaT8TJJYYagNhH?= =?us-ascii?Q?8JTeR94B84NkP2nehLRtntNzMH+GnJfhRBYuUj/VvzoSBugEAjYMBTujzH/p?= =?us-ascii?Q?ha57fmsIejz9AGQgD6CAoLiNyhB9M4bJIz9eIT1FUmocPGG2k+A4fiE4AUD7?= =?us-ascii?Q?suelqtSVzf1vtPDBMM/HCW0DKbeVcbg9TdDcaxwXS03FUQeBtbQdlxvSzV31?= =?us-ascii?Q?zpn2mm4t8CXrwjHMMSVcpgUssGObsW9GE4x2T6ah2tS6mUdOKSOB4yIJO44y?= =?us-ascii?Q?Vp7ZAmVQ2fnkiNo4ZMqDiq++2S/k07VNWwUG1C7gpsIjmkw2U6yzi81qYLIV?= =?us-ascii?Q?1fGrfWaovfoePFwGZ9HMBsRV0NnsFA5pNevTToeB+y0b+rpxEBKGYwdxPdhp?= =?us-ascii?Q?77EfRTaeGBT6iBypbIPXNBCxuE8ngFkrdtzClNfEnZPneR0vjSZdUsbf0Ld6?= =?us-ascii?Q?PJJDf0uHc8akQLEtc6GU4JCyv7gYjhgRGuNG4KuRxQeCK2W3r2cTsyTu6WYl?= =?us-ascii?Q?AQ77N04ZolHi3U/5INwsEb8JV7Z70M799IzKGEH6QqquEvYj81LPSlSvFsSH?= =?us-ascii?Q?7O8itpzLoWyCcSmcl4wF5TaFS1JpfZ+6OajYw09zGo8T+ZYLb8RtFfNFZmUS?= =?us-ascii?Q?+cDqZupIaSE8dgtVTnOEGRifcNQ0ZiE/gaWj7efZxVRMePHHCGG4Zh937ppn?= =?us-ascii?Q?NEMRV/AKTVpt/bqicM8m5MLgs8Cvt4qA9dC5CO7KdEk=3D?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA0PR13MB4080.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 56fae54a-5188-41ca-aec8-08d8b1c9f3a2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jan 2021 22:33:40.6186 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: GHQYantwjA3z6wyLY6whmJLLjVKGMD2naHzmT5mQyvub65PjEf4fC+8sVUEnKMS869wHrCSLVPUYdt8BaXnzew== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA0PR13MB4063 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 22:33:49 -0000 Joel, Commenting as an author:=20 I too agree that the draft should use terminology on transport and slicing = that TEAS defines so that there is consistency. We can either add it in the= next revision/or put place holders now. Given that, my view is that the work in TEAS and DMM are complementary. TEAS defines transport and slicing applicable across various domains and so= lutions in a more generic fashion, while the DMM draft would provide how to= apply it in a 3GPP context. There isn't a 1:1 mapping between TEAS /IETF slice offered to the 3GPP prov= ider, and a slice which the 3GPP provider provisions for its subscriber (UE= ).=20 The focus of the DMM draft is to define how a UE/3GPP transport packet (GTP= packet across F1/W1, N3, N9, for a slice defined between 3GPP provider and= subscriber) should be mapped to various transport network segments (SR, MP= LS, IP, L2 etc). Regards, John -----Original Message----- From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:23 PM To: dmm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 = as a WG document Hmmm. It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work in t= he TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framewor= k (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices. Th= at work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport"=20 was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF net= work slicing. Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two competin= g frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fall squarely= into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP and= works for other use cases? Yours, Joel M. Halpern On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > Support WG adoption. >=20 > Linda Dunbar >=20 > ------------------- > From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > > Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > as a WG document > To: dmm > >=20 > Folks: >=20 > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G,=20 > have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in=20 > multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions=20 > in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from=20 > the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this=20 > document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards tra= ck. >=20 > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* >=20 > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool > s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&data=3D04%7C0 > 1%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b110 > 1135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264662%7 > CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DnMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8UTqedSBdHb7 > Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&reserved=3D0=20 > ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&data=3D04%7C > 01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b11 > 01135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264662% > 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik > 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DnMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8UTqedSBdHb > 7Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&reserved=3D0> >=20 > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some=20 > feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial=20 > comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. > If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from=20 > AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. >=20 > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. >=20 > Regards >=20 > DMM WG Chairs >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallim > alil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b2 > 40189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs > b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D > %7C3000&sdata=3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D& > ;reserved=3D0=20 > .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippalli > malil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b > 240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3 > D%7C3000&sdata=3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&am > p;reserved=3D0> >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww. > ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallim > alil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b2 > 40189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs > b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D > %7C3000&sdata=3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D& > ;reserved=3D0 >=20 _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%4= 0futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1= d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w= LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DW= ox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Tue Jan 5 14:40:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDEE3A0A63 for ; 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Tue, 5 Jan 2021 14:40:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1609886440; bh=r0lu/yA6EMsMa6JHfmJNLVrnaL/e9z9PnMarHsyEi34=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=P0urEC5Q3hlglLu6hJjohRR+ogctM8T50I8Eil4McCBJyG5kWoXLsrygcIKco3iJT OO75miKvLdTKE7r6wMWhdoYkog/J7xETte6NyHYJo5WcUkHSIUxOenBEcUhpBZSJJW r2dZMfRFk1Eb4nGu5WSJlBB0zO2xgV3jCfoNWX0c= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (unknown [50.225.209.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D9SBb3gL8z1pFxj; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 14:40:39 -0800 (PST) To: Kaippallimalil John , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> From: Joel Halpern Direct Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 17:40:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 22:40:42 -0000 It is quite hard for me to understand what is itnended due to the terminology differences. It would be helpful before adoption if there were better alignment. Also, clarity as to whether we are discussing the service interface (how to map the 3GPP needs to the services defined by the IETF network slicing abstraction) or the de3livery mechanisms (how to use various IETF technologies to deliver the services defined by the abstractions and mapped to the 3GPP structures. I would not expect DMM to need to get into how to map to the mechanisms, as that is an ever-evolving domain and one that is dealt with by the various domain WGs (TEAS, MPLS, SPRING, ...) Yours, Joel On 1/5/2021 5:33 PM, Kaippallimalil John wrote: > Joel, > Commenting as an author: > I too agree that the draft should use terminology on transport and slicing that TEAS defines so that there is consistency. We can either add it in the next revision/or put place holders now. > > Given that, my view is that the work in TEAS and DMM are complementary. > > TEAS defines transport and slicing applicable across various domains and solutions in a more generic fashion, while the DMM draft would provide how to apply it in a 3GPP context. > There isn't a 1:1 mapping between TEAS /IETF slice offered to the 3GPP provider, and a slice which the 3GPP provider provisions for its subscriber (UE). > The focus of the DMM draft is to define how a UE/3GPP transport packet (GTP packet across F1/W1, N3, N9, for a slice defined between 3GPP provider and subscriber) should be mapped to various transport network segments (SR, MPLS, IP, L2 etc). > > Regards, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:23 PM > To: dmm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > > Hmmm. > > It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and framework (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices. That work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. > > First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport" > was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF network slicing. > > Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two competing frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works for 3GPP and works for other use cases? > > Yours, > Joel M. Halpern > > On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: >> Support WG adoption. >> >> Linda Dunbar >> >> ------------------- >> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > > >> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM >> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 >> as a WG document >> To: dmm > >> >> Folks: >> >> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, >> have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in >> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions >> in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from >> the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this >> document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards track. >> >> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* >> >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftool >> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&data=04%7C0 >> 1%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b110 >> 1135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264662%7 >> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 >> haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8UTqedSBdHb7 >> Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&reserved=0 >> > ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&data=04%7C >> 01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b11 >> 01135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264662% >> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik >> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8UTqedSBdHb >> 7Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&reserved=0> >> >> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some >> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial >> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. >> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from >> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. >> >> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. >> >> Regards >> >> DMM WG Chairs >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dmm mailing list >> dmm@ietf.org >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallim >> alil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b2 >> 40189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs >> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D >> %7C3000&sdata=Wox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D& >> ;reserved=0 >> > .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippalli >> malil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b >> 240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ >> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3 >> D%7C3000&sdata=Wox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&am >> p;reserved=0> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dmm mailing list >> dmm@ietf.org >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallim >> alil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b2 >> 40189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs >> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D >> %7C3000&sdata=Wox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D& >> ;reserved=0 >> > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Wox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&reserved=0 > From nobody Tue Jan 5 15:23:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FFBC3A0CAC for ; 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Tue, 05 Jan 2021 15:22:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 15:22:44 -0800 Message-ID: To: dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000840ad205b82f7c84" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 23:22:59 -0000 --000000000000840ad205b82f7c84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Hannu, Indeed you raised this point w.r.t terminology in IETF109 and I responded we will consider that as appropriate. I would note the following w.r.t "transport network" aspect: a. Till last quarter TEAS draft was referring to "transport slices terminology" - as in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsdt-teas-transport-slice-definition-04#s= ection-3 b. However most recently we do see the change to IETF Network Slice in Q420= 20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsdt-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition= -00 c. I have also gone through other ongoing individual documents in TEAS and they still refer to transport slices, transport networks. AFAIU, from the TEAS discussion earlier, when you work on generic slicing effort transport network terminology may be confusing to some folks (with transport layer?). However, if the scope is a mobility domain(3GPP network) it is obvious as the context it is discussed will be very specific w.r.t other parts of the networks, viz., RAN and 5GC/Core Network. But, I still see an issue with the latest terminology in #b (though it's more appropriate for me to comment there in TEAS). IETF Network slice may not represent all segments in fronthaul or F1U/W1U in L2 switched environments or even in N3 and N9 which may be deployed without IP/MPLS. I also requested in the IETF109 DMM WG meeting, to give specific comments or suggestions w.r.t terminology or any other aspects and we will consider those and we haven't received any. Any ways, we will keep this as TBD and we change it eventually as agreeable to the DMM and IETF TEAS community. Many Thx, -- Uma C. On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:00 AM Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) < hannu.flinck@nokia-bell-labs.com> wrote: > Hello > > I raised the same concern in the last meeting as Joel now in his mail. Th= e > authors then told that the work is aligned with TEAS. But it seems not to > be clear after all. > It would help to start the alignment by adding a refer to TEAS slicing > drafts. And the use it in the text... > > Best regards > Hannu > > -----Original Message----- > From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:46 AM > To: Kiran Makhijani ; Joel M. Halpern < > jmh@joelhalpern.com>; dmm@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-0= 8 > as a WG document > > Kiran, the TEAS work is focused on defining the structures and semantics > for an interface to request services from what 3GPP calls a transport > network. It seems really odd for another working group to define how to > map to the "transport" network differently from the way TEAS is defining > it. If the TEAS definitions are wrong, we need to fix them. If they > are right, we need to use them. Having another document that attempts to > define the mapping separately seems like a recipe for difficulties. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 1/4/2021 8:39 PM, Kiran Makhijani wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managing > slices 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is just one > of the use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to replace > "transport" because it could mean different things. > > > > But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily > relies on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transport > network' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and covers > mobility procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs. > > > > I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 > activities should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice > terminology/framework), maybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a > major change to the way procedures are described in the document. > > > > I support this work. > > FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its > readability. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul backgroun= d' > and 'TN mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and management of > TN context and its mobility. > > > > -Kiran > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > >> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM > >> To: dmm@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > >> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > >> > >> Hmmm. > >> > >> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing > >> work in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define > >> terminology and framework (and then any necessary protocol > >> mechanisms) for IETF network slices. That work is explicitly intended > to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices. > >> > >> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transpor= t" > >> was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called > >> IETF network slicing. > >> > >> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two > >> competing frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to > >> fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that > >> works for 3GPP and works for other use cases? > >> > >> Yours, > >> Joel M. Halpern > >> > >> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > >>> Support WG adoption. > >>> > >>> Linda Dunbar > >>> > >>> ------------------- > >>> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* > >>> >>> > > >>> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > >>> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of > >>> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > >>> as a WG document > >>> To: dmm > > >>> > >>> Folks: > >>> > >>> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for > >>> 5G, have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in > >>> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of > >>> discussions in the mailers and there is some level of interest for > >>> the work from the community. We are therefore considering the > >>> adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on > >>> Informational Standards > >> track. > >>> > >>> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > >>> > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ft= o > >>> ol > >>> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > >> 08&data=3D04%7C0 > >>> > >> 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C > >> 0fee8f > >>> > >> f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn > >> own%7CTW > >>> > >> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC > >> I6 > >>> > >> Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUcU > >> 8%2BH72rW > >>> I%3D&reserved=3D0 > >>> >>> oo > >>> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility- > >> 08&data=3D04%7C > >>> > >> 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7 > >> C0fee8 > >>> > >> ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk > >> nown%7CT > >>> > >> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX > >> VCI > >>> > >> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DYR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXraMq > >> BXA0w%3 > >>> D&reserved=3D0> > >>> > >>> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some > >>> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial > >>> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be > >> adopted. > >>> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from > >>> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. > >>> > >>> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> DMM WG Chairs > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dmm mailing list > >>> dmm@ietf.org > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw= ww. > >>> > >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > >> uture > >>> > >> wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > >> 3a1d5 > >>> > >> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > >> 8eyJWIjoiM > >>> > >> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > >> amp;s > >>> > >> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > >> ved=3D0 > >>> > >> >> w > >>> > >> .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > >> utur > >>> > >> ewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7 > >> 53a1d > >>> > >> 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 > >> d8eyJWIjoi > >>> > >> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 > >> & > >>> > >> sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&rese > >> rved=3D > >>> 0> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dmm mailing list > >>> dmm@ietf.org > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw= ww. > >>> > >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f > >> uture > >>> > >> wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75 > >> 3a1d5 > >>> > >> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > >> 8eyJWIjoiM > >>> > >> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000& > >> amp;s > >>> > >> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&reser > >> ved=3D0 > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dmm mailing list > >> dmm@ietf.org > >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww= w > >> .ie tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fu= t > >> urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189 > >> c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF > >> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI > >> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9t > >> apfTKY771c%3D&reserved=3D0 > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --000000000000840ad205b82f7c84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Hannu,

Indeed you raise= d this point w.r.t terminology in IETF109 and I responded we will consider = that as appropriate. I would note the following w.r.t "transport netwo= rk" aspect:

a. Till last quarter TEAS draft was referring to=C2= =A0 "transport slices terminology" -=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0

<= pre style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(80,0,80);break-before:page">b. However most recently we do see the change to I= ETF Network Slice in Q42020 
=C2=A0=C2=A0https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsdt-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00 =

c. I have also gone through other on=
going  individual documents in TEAS and they still refer to transport slice=
s, transport networks.

AFAIU, from the TEAS discussion earlier, when you work on generic slicing= effort transport network=C2=A0terminology may=C2=A0=C2=A0be confusing to s= ome folks (with transport layer?).=C2=A0
However, if the scope is= a mobility domain(3GPP network)=C2=A0 it is obvious as the context it is d= iscussed will be very=C2=A0
specific w.r.t other parts of the net= works, viz.,=C2=A0 RAN and 5GC/Core Network.=C2=A0

But, I still see an issue with the latest terminology in #b=C2=A0 (th= ough it's more appropriate for me to comment there in TEAS).=C2=A0
IETF Network slice may not represent all segments in fronthaul or F1U= /W1U in L2 switched environments or even in N3 and N9=C2=A0 which may be de= ployed without IP/MPLS.

I also requeste= d in the IETF109 DMM WG meeting, to give specific comments or suggestions w= .r.t terminology or any other aspects and we will consider those and we hav= en't received any.

Any ways, we will kee= p this as TBD and we change it eventually as agreeable to the DMM and IETF = TEAS community.

Many Thx,
--
Uma C.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:00 AM Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo) &l= t;hannu.flinck@nokia-be= ll-labs.com> wrote:
Hello

I raised the same concern in the last meeting as Joel now in his mail. The = authors then told that the work is aligned with TEAS. But it seems not to b= e clear after all.
It would help to start the alignment by adding a refer to TEAS slicing draf= ts. And the use it in the text...

Best regards
Hannu

-----Original Message-----
From: dmm <dmm= -bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:46 AM
To: Kiran Makhijani <kiranm@futurewei.com>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; dmm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 = as a WG document

Kiran, the TEAS work is focused on defining the structures and semantics fo= r an interface to request services from what 3GPP calls a transport network= .=C2=A0 It seems really odd for another working group to define how to map = to the "transport" network differently from the way TEAS is defin= ing
it.=C2=A0 If the TEAS definitions are wrong, we need to fix them.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0If they
are right, we need to use them.=C2=A0 Having another document that attempts= to define the mapping separately seems like a recipe for difficulties.

Yours,
Joel

On 1/4/2021 8:39 PM, Kiran Makhijani wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> The IETF network slices work under teas focuses on control and managin= g slices 'with in' the IP/MPLS networks. Actually, in TEAS 3GPP is = just one of the use cases not the only use case. Also, TEAS wanted to repla= ce "transport" because it could mean different things.
>
> But this document only focuses on 3GPP mobility scenarios and heavily = relies on terms and components used in 5G architecture - here 'transpor= t network' is a standard term. The work presented here is new and cover= s mobility procedures and corresponding mappings between AN and UPFs.
>
> I have read this document and I agree the relationship between the 2 a= ctivities should be discussed (once TEAS adopts slice terminology/framework= ), maybe in section 2.7. But I feel this is not a major change to the way p= rocedures are described in the document.
>
> I support this work.
> FWIW, I think a bit restructuring of the document will improve its rea= dability. For example, section 2 should be split into 'xhaul background= ' and 'TN mobility procedure' - things related to mapping and m= anagement of TN context and its mobility.
>
> -Kiran
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
>> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 4:23 PM
>> To: dmm@ietf.org=
>> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of
>> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document
>>
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing =
>> work in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define
>> terminology and framework (and then any necessary protocol
>> mechanisms) for IETF network slices.=C2=A0 That work is explicitly= intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network slices.
>>
>> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "= ;Transport"
>> was confusing and misleading.=C2=A0 Which is why the work is now c= alled
>> IETF network slicing.
>>
>> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two=
>> competing frameworks.=C2=A0 Why is DMM doing this separately.=C2= =A0 It seems to
>> fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS.=C2=A0 I presume we want a solut= ion that
>> works for 3GPP and works for other use cases?
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel M. Halpern
>>
>> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>>> Support WG adoption.
>>>
>>> Linda Dunbar
>>>
>>> -------------------
>>> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)*
>>> <sgundave=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org
>>> <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
>>> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM
>>> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of
>>> draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08
>>> as a WG document
>>> To: dmm <= dmm@ietf.org <mailto:dmm@ietf.org>>
>>>
>>> Folks:
>>>
>>> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility = for
>>> 5G, have presented the proposal and the need for standardizati= on in
>>> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of
>>> discussions in the mailers and there is some level of interest= for
>>> the work from the community. We are therefore considering the =
>>> adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on=
>>> Informational Standards
>> track.
>>>
>>> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G*
>>>
>>> https://nam11.saf= elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fto
>>> ol
>>> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-
>> 08&amp;data=3D04%7C0
>>>
>> 1%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C<= br> >> 0fee8f
>>>
>> f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107896985%7CUnkn
>> own%7CTW
>>>
>> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX= VC
>> I6
>>>
>> Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D34KQ%2Fo0EvC8uta4EF1pa3i1N5etAd6RKUc= U
>> 8%2BH72rW
>>> I%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>>> <https://nam11.= safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ft
>>> oo
>>> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-
>> 08&amp;data=3D04%7C
>>>
>> 01%7Ckiranm%40futurewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7<= br> >> C0fee8
>>>
>> ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnk
>> nown%7CT
>>>
>> WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ= X
>> VCI
>>>
>> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DYR1gDCJtkfwjBxxsBtSYbbbQZpUlDzp3IXr= aMq
>> BXA0w%3
>>> D&amp;reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide s= ome
>>> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide subst= antial
>>> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT b= e
>> adopted.
>>> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from =
>>> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work.
>>>
>>> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> DMM WG Chairs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dmm mailing list
>>> dmm@ietf.org= <mailto:dmm@ietf.= org>
>>> https://nam11.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>
>> i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f<= br> >> uture
>>>
>> we= i.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75
>> 3a1d5
>>>
>> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>> 8eyJWIjoiM
>>>
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a= mp;
>> amp;s
>>>
>> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&amp;= reser
>> ved=3D0
>>>
>> <https://nam11.saf= elinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww
>> w
>>>
>> .= ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f=
>> utur
>>>
>> e= wei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7
>> 53a1d
>>>
>> 5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
>> d8eyJWIjoi
>>>
>> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000<= br> >> &amp;
>>>
>> sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&amp= ;rese
>> rved=3D
>>> 0>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dmm mailing list
>>> dmm@ietf.org=
>>> https://nam11.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>
>> i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40f<= br> >> uture
>>>
>> we= i.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75
>> 3a1d5
>>>
>> 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d
>> 8eyJWIjoiM
>>>
>> C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&a= mp;
>> amp;s
>>>
>> data=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi9tapfTKY771c%3D&amp;= reser
>> ved=3D0
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org=
>> https://nam11.safeli= nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww
>> .ie tf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Ckiranm%40fu= t
>> urewei.com%7C93dbff7d775842c2409108d8b1101f02%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189
>> c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454030107906979%7CUnknown%7CTWF
>> pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV= CI
>> 6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DpB%2BBZs2OGGMd3ILvAJxiSyA6vRt%2Brmi= 9t
>> apfTKY771c%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

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--000000000000840ad205b82f7c84-- From nobody Tue Jan 5 16:00:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79BEB3A0ECE for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 15:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S4zu-HWv72N4 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 15:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 673D73A0ECB for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 15:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id k4so1187717ybp.6 for ; Tue, 05 Jan 2021 15:59:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1as+QJTzvsdrj0yFEOgmSblKt/Gni3+3M5MejpqKZE4=; b=PVETbkb/DzvNGgsTqPp4k9JySz3NXJIR09r574fizVd5178Kg6CC6RFiCrPoCR3oGE QifiKRXOCZSV+HXIvnfB3JNCs0OCb7b67W3QHX6BU5yixaoaXF/rNACX2v9hl3i8GL7e C/2kCloSba+8wrGruOMXeRqCzO3M81u0b1Bh0KbfDp4B5Sn47947R2bb7q8GQuBLGm0b iisISkijKAZetz23tuWgcrOtAAUw7E3UMnHPRMy9z6vUVn0R3YE6s3eErQUUptbe2M6A 17wMC23oUqTz5EUuAUlgfuheze7cX0Jyz1OnTyD5fhu8KYQUik7ChbC3ZRK2F0upCIvE 73pA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1as+QJTzvsdrj0yFEOgmSblKt/Gni3+3M5MejpqKZE4=; b=dmD8IZgg27iO7Snzpkc5P0RmcDZknAHzzktA2mr6+iooEWIDJ+REljWdH5xaRXWBQo wIZyeyhMj1f20vosFsVtKGzk6QZNxqTOYN4kvDdQZooNA5ghP+Zy2Jib7Lg1UnDVhI+F +1s/EoBgaXFlfYiWG0iMplAgY+c84cXkto7sjWbNTbIgZE5Y7HmA+YOrmXlSgz7EFDmj g6tCWYUjIdYM5yjsBfIQquGgIAMNjguNoDbMgrcN5m3VJT4KJM90H8jPHLVhZ24KGzgB bzPa6aQy0BxZ4BDi9bMbycTzEtLHVB+CqvDpFMoEvkjqH+fN8+D7XwDvvS6EzSI5CWlp v51g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532/plbXjcUNfD7zowkVmUlKBgEVE1taHe0I7IiggODa8odgiuNx NAy255uVTf7/CS8TvongGQ9F7H76CP2gC3D36/VnMBEHzxc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyyQacSon4AAx1mho1xXEYw7ya2FxXCx191LkisFH5kfsxGGqoOPSPjGYG/FtnaXTX8G95jtiFOGeDw26kt/dY= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9981:: with SMTP id p1mr2564841ybo.241.1609891195447; Tue, 05 Jan 2021 15:59:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 15:59:44 -0800 Message-ID: To: dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4eec405b83000d1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 23:59:59 -0000 --000000000000d4eec405b83000d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joel, I would let John reply to you further , but a quick comment: -- Uma C. On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:40 PM Joel Halpern Direct < jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > It is quite hard for me to understand what is itnended due to the > terminology differences. It would be helpful before adoption if there > were better alignment. > [Uma]: As I noted in the other response, I am afraid, even the latest change in terminology from 'Transport Slice' to 'IETF Network Slice' ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsdt-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-0= 2 ) may not capture the full scope here. > > Also, clarity as to whether we are discussing the service interface (how > to map the 3GPP needs to the services defined by the IETF network > slicing abstraction) or the de3livery mechanisms (how to use various > IETF technologies to deliver the services defined by the abstractions > and mapped to the 3GPP structures. [Uma]: Obviously not the delivery mechanisms as you noted it can cross many WGs from LSR (for routing), TEAS, PCE (for related-TE stuff), or RTGWG (IP fast reroute) to data plane (6Man, Spring, MPLS etc). > I would not expect DMM to need to > get into how to map to the mechanisms, [Uma]: I am not sure why. We saw this is the most appropriate place when we started this work way back in 2018 (00 version, predates TEAS slicing design team started with a wider scope for generic slicing), given the mobility domain expertise and many 3GPP/IETF related items being worked out here like - a. 3GPP User plane work https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ b. SR work which can co-exist with GTP based 3GPP user plane and vatious inter-working scenarios in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane/ c. While, not directly related to this sub-opic, another important work like https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-fpc-cpdp/ Again, as you pointed out TEAS has produced many pioneering works applicable here are already being referred here and make sure to align in future wherever applicable. Many Thx, -- Uma C. as that is an ever-evolving > domain and one that is dealt with by the various domain WGs (TEAS, MPLS, > SPRING, ...) > > Yours, > Joel > > On 1/5/2021 5:33 PM, Kaippallimalil John wrote: > > Joel, > > Commenting as an author: > > I too agree that the draft should use terminology on transport and > slicing that TEAS defines so that there is consistency. We can either add > it in the next revision/or put place holders now. > > > > Given that, my view is that the work in TEAS and DMM are complementary. > > > > TEAS defines transport and slicing applicable across various domains an= d > solutions in a more generic fashion, while the DMM draft would provide ho= w > to apply it in a 3GPP context. > > There isn't a 1:1 mapping between TEAS /IETF slice offered to the 3GPP > provider, and a slice which the 3GPP provider provisions for its subscrib= er > (UE). > > The focus of the DMM draft is to define how a UE/3GPP transport packet > (GTP packet across F1/W1, N3, N9, for a slice defined between 3GPP provid= er > and subscriber) should be mapped to various transport network segments (S= R, > MPLS, IP, L2 etc). > > > > Regards, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:23 PM > > To: dmm@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > > > > Hmmm. > > > > It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work > in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and > framework (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network > slices. That work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end > network slices. > > > > First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Transport= " > > was confusing and misleading. Which is why the work is now called IETF > network slicing. > > > > Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two > competing frameworks. Why is DMM doing this separately. It seems to fal= l > squarely into CCAMP and TEAS. I presume we want a solution that works fo= r > 3GPP and works for other use cases? > > > > Yours, > > Joel M. Halpern > > > > On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > >> Support WG adoption. > >> > >> Linda Dunbar > >> > >> ------------------- > >> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* >> > > >> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > >> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > >> as a WG document > >> To: dmm > > >> > >> Folks: > >> > >> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, > >> have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in > >> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions > >> in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from > >> the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this > >> document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards > track. > >> > >> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > >> > >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fto= ol > >> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&data=3D04%7= C0 > >> 1%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b110 > >> 1135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264662%7 > >> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > >> haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DnMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8UTqedSBdH= b7 > >> Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&reserved=3D0 > >> >> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&data=3D04%= 7C > >> 01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b11 > >> 01135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264662% > >> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik > >> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DnMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8UTqedSBd= Hb > >> 7Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&reserved=3D0> > >> > >> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some > >> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial > >> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopte= d. > >> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from > >> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work. > >> > >> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> DMM WG Chairs > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dmm mailing list > >> dmm@ietf.org > >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww= w. > >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippall= im > >> alil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b2 > >> 40189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs > >> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D > >> %7C3000&sdata=3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&a= mp > >> ;reserved=3D0 > >> >> .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippal= li > >> malil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b > >> 240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ > >> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3 > >> D%7C3000&sdata=3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&= am > >> p;reserved=3D0> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dmm mailing list > >> dmm@ietf.org > >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww= w. > >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippall= im > >> alil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b2 > >> 40189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs > >> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D > >> %7C3000&sdata=3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&a= mp > >> ;reserved=3D0 > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dmm mailing list > > dmm@ietf.org > > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil= %40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d8b1101135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753= a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863274628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC= 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata= =3DWox%2B4qgSrNicZW7Nu4fYeg8L5kc2mcFk6LHcMU6RpLM%3D&reserved=3D0 > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --000000000000d4eec405b83000d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,

I would let J= ohn reply to you further , but a quick comment:

--=
Uma C.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 2:40 PM Joel Halpern Direct &= lt;jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com= > wrote:
= It is quite hard for me to understand what is itnended due to the
terminology differences.=C2=A0 It would be helpful before adoption if there=
were better alignment.
=C2=A0
[Uma]:=C2=A0 A= s I noted in the other response, I am afraid, even the latest change in ter= minology from 'Transport Slice' to 'IETF Network Slice'=C2= =A0 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nsdt-teas-ietf-network= -slice-definition-02)=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may not capture=C2=A0 the full scope here.

Also, clarity as to whether we are discussing the service interface (how to map the 3GPP needs to the services defined by the IETF network
slicing abstraction) or the de3livery mechanisms (how to use various
IETF technologies to deliver the services defined by the abstractions
and mapped to the 3GPP structures.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
= [Uma]: Obviously not the delivery mechanisms as you noted it can cross many= WGs from=C2=A0
LSR (for routing), TEAS, PCE (for related-TE stuf= f),=C2=A0 or RTGWG (IP fast reroute) to data plane (6Man, Spring, MPLS etc)= .
=C2=A0
= I would not expect DMM to need to
get into how to map to the mechanisms,

[Um= a]: I am not sure why. We saw this is the most appropriate place when we st= arted this work way back in 2018 (00 version, predates TEAS slicing design = team started with a wider scope for generic slicing), given the mobility do= main expertise and=C2=A0 many 3GPP/IETF related items being=C2=A0 worked ou= t here
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 like -
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a. 3G= PP User plane work=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dm= m-5g-uplane-analysis/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0b. SR work which can co-exist with GTP based= 3GPP user plane and vatious inter-working scenarios in https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-srv6-mobile-uplane/
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0c. While,=C2= =A0not directly related to this sub-opic, another important work like=C2=A0= https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-fpc-cpdp/=C2=A0
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
Again, as you pointed out TEAS has pr= oduced many pioneering=C2=A0works applicable here are already being referre= d here and make sure to align in future=C2=A0 wherever=C2=A0applicable.

Many Thx,
--
Uma C.
as that is an ever= -evolving
domain and one that is dealt with by the various domain WGs (TEAS, MPLS, SPRING, ...)

Yours,
Joel

On 1/5/2021 5:33 PM, Kaippallimalil John wrote:
> Joel,
> Commenting as an author:
> I too agree that the draft should use terminology on transport and sli= cing that TEAS defines so that there is consistency. We can either add it i= n the next revision/or put place holders now.
>
> Given that, my view is that the work in TEAS and DMM are complementary= .
>
> TEAS defines transport and slicing applicable across various domains a= nd solutions in a more generic fashion, while the DMM draft would provide h= ow to apply it in a 3GPP context.
> There isn't a 1:1 mapping between TEAS /IETF slice offered to the = 3GPP provider, and a slice which the 3GPP provider provisions for its subsc= riber (UE).
> The focus of the DMM draft is to define how a UE/3GPP transport packet= (GTP packet across F1/W1, N3, N9, for a slice defined between 3GPP provide= r and subscriber) should be mapped to various transport network segments (S= R, MPLS, IP, L2 etc).
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 6:23 PM
> To: dmm@ietf.org=
> Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobilit= y-08 as a WG document
>
> Hmmm.
>
> It seems to me that this document ought to align with the ongoing work= in the TEAS working group that is attempting to define terminology and fra= mework (and then any necessary protocol mechanisms) for IETF network slices= .=C2=A0 That work is explicitly intended to support 3GPP end-to-end network= slices.
>
> First, the discussion there exlicitly conluded that the term "Tra= nsport"
> was confusing and misleading.=C2=A0 Which is why the work is now calle= d IETF network slicing.
>
> Second, it seems that we want one IETF framework for this, not two com= peting frameworks.=C2=A0 Why is DMM doing this separately.=C2=A0 It seems t= o fall squarely into CCAMP and TEAS.=C2=A0 I presume we want a solution tha= t works for 3GPP and works for other use cases?
>
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
>
> On 1/4/2021 7:11 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>> Support WG adoption.
>>
>> Linda Dunbar
>>
>> -------------------
>> From: *Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)* <sgundave=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org
>> <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
>> Date: Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM
>> Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobilit= y-08
>> as a WG document
>> To: dmm <dmm@= ietf.org <mailto:d= mm@ietf.org>>
>>
>> Folks:
>>
>> The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for = 5G,
>> have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in >> multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussi= ons
>> in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work fr= om
>> the community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this >> document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standa= rds track.
>>
>> *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G*
>>
>> https://nam11.safel= inks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool
>> s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&amp;data=3D= 04%7C0
>> 1%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108d= 8b110
>> 1135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6374540298632646= 62%7
>> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI= 6Ik1
>> haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DnMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8U= TqedSBdHb7
>> Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
>> <https://nam11.sa= felinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoo
>> ls.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08&amp;data= =3D04%7C
>> 01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%40futurewei.com%7C5c225b50684e46709e2108= d8b11
>> 01135%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454029863264= 662%
>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi= I6Ik
>> 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DnMZamYoSrcrbkf0cipy5f8= UTqedSBdHb
>> 7Wx5%2F2nUqkI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0>
>>
>> With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some<= br> >> feedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substanti= al
>> comments as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be ad= opted.
>> If there is interest, and if there are no other concerns from
>> AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work.
>>
>> The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> DMM WG Chairs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmm mailing list
>> dmm@ietf.org= <mailto:dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
>> https://nam11.safeli= nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.
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Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F31A3A0F61 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:10:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qYjrD7dfLh2h for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 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16:10:24 -0800 (PST) To: dmm References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:10:22 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document - Objections X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 00:10:40 -0000 Looking agin at the document, I have multiple problems with adoption of this document. First, as just discussed, it seems to be laying out an archtiecture, but that architecture is not consistent with the other work going on in the IETF (specifically in the routing area, and known to many of the co-authors of this work.) Second, the document states that it is Informational, and then is written as if it is defining the one and only way to structure the needed system. Third, related to the second, this document seems to assert that there is a specific and correct way to use IETF technology to solve the problem. Then, about three quarters of the way through it remembers that there are multiple alternatives for some parts. The IETF rarely writes implementation specifications. There are other SDOs that do so. They can wrestle with the problem of defining something that can be utilized by multiple operators with varying constraints. Why would we want to get into trying to have that fight? For the WG chairs, I am trying to figure out how this even fits the DMM charter. It is a LOT more than network exposure, which is the closest I can see in the charter. Yours, unhappily, Joel From nobody Wed Jan 6 08:52:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CA33A100F for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 08:51:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hd6fUzC1CEJE for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 08:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb31.google.com (mail-yb1-xb31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02CC43A0DDD for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 08:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb31.google.com with SMTP id y4so3400575ybn.3 for ; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 08:51:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=7BW4CXJjtsvP7MzJndAA8Q98ZZ2575JvOMIALOI63QI=; b=t1oN6vXWdigo0oeVh4WuXZApARPIPnjmSNNC4tDHyp1AqDQptwYs701puIGeSsWnbX qKmbIpD+4WUGcH/sESZpehpBHT3c2EroOBde62DOyc0KwAs9piwxtt4Zl5ivG2sptQeW GZoRX83Lq4rgoZbzDr40e9QVtJnq/LCtkpkJ62x1ytYB5GS425J90JJx1xq3AayguscN 4Mupgbv1VOAFrUoJHalTBFx3Z51Mw+aabdlX4169J19daU8WdsPLpiyiMeA9xvlbvG9z Amew6RUUAROixdRGbA/Md1ihTad/b9oHrVd6ot9NyFFDUpSsQbpnrxJKobuBi387ccKb jC9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7BW4CXJjtsvP7MzJndAA8Q98ZZ2575JvOMIALOI63QI=; b=k7qs/9meqgzPJffxU8DgKBxPYFAbtSmh0u7wOMxEDI16EPocMQ+0/yytj1Jf0GE/Z1 u0eehbTMJFuyoZUfDE5IiIhDJYiIyCfx4jNzgqIHIwTtush93LitLL0HVEzM25gVC5UV OXF3animn/2LgPFcTSD/YGiX1753cv0sFeXTKAhBixZiignPfqStlExgXHibA2QJDPnU 8H37WBSxXZ0+dLxnlVfqaU79RBUGiZLA0V7RvCt4/AR/xjTMWBmJXmjIe+xjnXP9neoq yNCdhz8x0OkQzJIvIG+JJvBvWSwnnXf5/LAWtPXVOz0aMKIKovO7AkXuS17NT9vvbuSC F1yQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530XXhX4dJYYXsyIumVkjvcXBK86sGLvCRmdFG5s95iipkwMV5VF 5EqcllIpEOEZm0ZWxKO70pD+2CVh3THP95Kp8yX26OSOu00= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw6Vm2GiSmcFzT0TCQNBBW52SuNjWBrY60lRkaX/k8xPCRN2FlzFZRIEz9Pvte7qreap39y0SvQ6QcZdaUu2Ak= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:187:: with SMTP id r7mr7400088ybl.324.1609951913115; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 08:51:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 10:51:42 -0600 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e301dd05b83e231b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document - Objections X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 16:51:57 -0000 --000000000000e301dd05b83e231b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This is an excellent review. More below. On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 6:11 PM Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Looking agin at the document, I have multiple problems with adoption of > this document. > > First, as just discussed, it seems to be laying out an archtiecture, but > that architecture is not consistent with the other work going on in the > IETF (specifically in the routing area, and known to many of the > co-authors of this work.) > > Second, the document states that it is Informational, and then is > written as if it is defining the one and only way to structure the > needed system. > > Third, related to the second, this document seems to assert that there > is a specific and correct way to use IETF technology to solve the > problem. Then, about three quarters of the way through it remembers > that there are multiple alternatives for some parts. The IETF rarely > writes implementation specifications. There are other SDOs that do so. > This reminds me what is happening in quic WG which keeps producing implementation specs. > They can wrestle with the problem of defining something that can be > utilized by multiple operators with varying constraints. Why would we > want to get into trying to have that fight? > > For the WG chairs, I am trying to figure out how this even fits the DMM > charter. It is a LOT more than network exposure, which is the closest I > can see in the charter. > > I had raised this charter issue long time before. I pointed out that dmm has to recharter and even maybe make a BOF before working on these. They have all been ignored. Hope that they won't this time :) Folks, +1 on all counts. I have to clarify that this mail is nothing personal, I know some authors, they are my friends, the chairs are my friends. No offense to anyone. Happy New Year! Behcet > Yours, unhappily, > Joel > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --000000000000e301dd05b83e231b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is an excellent review.
More below.
On = Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 6:11 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
= Looking agin at the document, I have multiple problems with adoption of this document.

First, as just discussed, it seems to be laying out an archtiecture, but that architecture is not consistent with the other work going on in the IETF (specifically in the routing area, and known to many of the
co-authors of this work.)

Second, the document states that it is Informational, and then is
written as if it is defining the one and only way to structure the
needed system.

Third, related to the second, this document seems to assert that there
is a specific and correct way to use IETF technology to solve the
problem.=C2=A0 Then, about three quarters of the way through it remembers <= br> that there are multiple alternatives for some parts.=C2=A0 The IETF rarely =
writes implementation specifications.=C2=A0 There are other SDOs that do so= .

This reminds me what is happening in= quic WG which keeps producing implementation specs.

=C2=A0
=C2=A0 They can wrestle with the problem of defining something that can be =
utilized by multiple operators with varying constraints.=C2=A0 Why would we=
want to get into trying to have that fight?

For the WG chairs, I am trying to figure out how this even fits the DMM charter.=C2=A0 It is a LOT more than network exposure, which is the closest= I
can see in the charter.


I had raised this charter issue long t= ime before.=C2=A0
I pointed out that dmm has to recharter and eve= n maybe make a BOF before working on these.
They have all been ig= nored.

Hope that they won't this time :)
=

Folks, +1 on all counts.

I hav= e to clarify that this mail is nothing personal, I know some authors, they = are my friends, the chairs are my friends.
No offense to anyone.<= /div>

Happy New Year!

Behcet=C2= =A0
Yours, unhappily,
Joel



_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
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Halpern" , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document - Objections Thread-Index: AQHW48Bsdn/uM7kpnkSWELGQoeO/iqobHMhQ Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 22:29:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: joelhalpern.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;joelhalpern.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [12.111.81.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5bf95d8d-83e1-4239-72a9-08d8b29280f5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA1PR13MB5024: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: KVT61uQElxV0YFH6YOFiGxj0I7j1oHBIFLHKRVmys4JIFA9L0473b7XoXREJN0uTkO9LbCKzJuQJnfvQu+Kfa9IQVRGDLE7BfQBAdAjFPyCaLZvMHZQE+dqK6jdJ1sk1vhcgvZ0ot3x7oo1zxFjpVI8NNqog6p50YoMZyVZJC5wAS3N5S05yoMyNQjL1hrTTExp1S6VbRKovY7nx/ogs8LEvLmFUrFALUP976aZBy7Zc+qNZPT1AJjsj6HsQB4KtLAg30ZBCbZk5PE8CIyrx2OcieqJFiHPsbV+EAETF5Yb98gdrzxrTZaAwHuzGtpvys3pWNe1Q2XyqQ2Hu8Mr/Ld0TAIl7mMKCYQ3j+D1wswPDFYNP/jPXB8KkpgAyCNXeRVV3wMoHbPC8sPVMIxuvBvMJ8+Kz+T87X/LDXiAnm694erf7tnqtSQobeKCX1nJarBSwcAO1YoW77o9H5QgbpQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SA0PR13MB4080.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(376002)(136003)(396003)(366004)(39840400004)(33656002)(66446008)(76116006)(66946007)(64756008)(52536014)(66476007)(8676002)(66556008)(316002)(71200400001)(110136005)(2906002)(9686003)(186003)(7696005)(26005)(45080400002)(86362001)(83380400001)(55016002)(966005)(478600001)(53546011)(6506007)(5660300002)(8936002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?EBatJYWO1P+H7XuwFKcFx+4oOshK/Uy4nYCo6LaLkk0kiWEqDFfRNLGFB38R?= =?us-ascii?Q?wVIdAlw0mV9iYQ7uMHSCLAM/oQLymsrirnEcj4qn/KoWC825tnifW/kuHbyv?= =?us-ascii?Q?CztE7FQV5dbys3BEIDm+UQkHN8IFAmXpN5A6SDOH4mAmtbTc4VOe8zZlOx75?= =?us-ascii?Q?EG6hRSvD12WDUL9F66hmWGn3Qwm9Fq1OKb5ukHQEYg5tzkPqf8Kk7FraG/Ya?= =?us-ascii?Q?bt7zxr6yRyVQcLgq/RJAKplRB+vQNTWO5iGUqbd9A0VEzkoEirBbQqzYA4d5?= =?us-ascii?Q?eGY14yLbEGSG6mTXrJLBFgxeE1gOeuUxL7hGDdVQE/FW3V9RaacoOToagDOo?= =?us-ascii?Q?IsKRj3uCaSFX3nXY+Zi+kurr1YeRuEY0ZW0uHLiu4XLtL3OepfotTtefFL0c?= =?us-ascii?Q?uWI2C6FuAznkS8THsAT1IV1a+0mUgxPkPLo01wH9OOgeH0Pr0AZ9/gz+KOJL?= =?us-ascii?Q?NA9eauzcPhn2SfNgML8TI4nf4JDdHGVp2fvPpjpCOoebaQ65RyjdZEkj0ahQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?EvqEAIyLPDdSEc8mizueF5Q77d5tW/Hc4q8jV0RgxjH9Tei8alSevqfeBLtS?= =?us-ascii?Q?C11Yt0bIn9qmJkT4ZwYdIXmkK8IIZGpJgxzgoCTx4W9ebrkk9hRed+NsD3ha?= =?us-ascii?Q?DINiszreuM651pTE1XSMjIiTybbPmtiL6SAN+vopCFXYZm/FLYJr8uGx2p8m?= =?us-ascii?Q?TMX1qJmruTI7RsVAoyMCA0s/AzrYRuRVlRob/3QB41otsxs5+VZVvd91ZIRv?= =?us-ascii?Q?srdH+Qx3JDRlLER1qkYVLcbc1WOeBVeXYjD/g+wZurGWwNj6Cm44eC9o2pW9?= =?us-ascii?Q?0DeWofViqvwf3KYBNvJP8jyvAg9/m3b1WejnLKCZSvLci3xKHas0Q/R/fcId?= =?us-ascii?Q?o1wjMxlI8fiCNvRlHxbkok4jICdGwTJ037BEDoZJ4EVILTzEEhlyLyRPQyfF?= =?us-ascii?Q?9K0sscSueqqncm61Kba8da9JjWMITnjHGBhAFUrHuv0=3D?= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA0PR13MB4080.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5bf95d8d-83e1-4239-72a9-08d8b29280f5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jan 2021 22:29:17.0498 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: qi8oQcBSDV27iVOa/WIawMA8RKzHOJoWasfklo+TsyUvaZu1Lwa4NIhN9zIB943m7977qffKtutv7UJFqxu9oA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR13MB5024 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document - Objections X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:29:22 -0000 Joel, This draft is not attempting to lay out a new architecture. The figure and = architecture section are there to provide context for the reader. The draft is also not asserting that these are the only ways to solve the i= ssue.=20 The last portion of the draft only refers to applicability since several IE= TF technology (and even non IETF data plane like L2) may be used E2E in the= transport underlay corresponding to a 3GPP overlay (F1/W1, N3, N9).=20 The draft is agnostic to any specific underlay. It is concerned with how th= e slice type/QoS properties between 3GPP provider and subscriber (UE) is re= alized as the data plane GTP packets (overlay) traverse one or more transpo= rt underlay segments on path. The dmm working group seems to be a natural choice as folks there have back= ground and expertise in both IETF and 3GPP technologies. =20 Best Regards, John -----Original Message----- From: dmm On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 6:10 PM To: dmm Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 = as a WG document - Objections Looking agin at the document, I have multiple problems with adoption of thi= s document. First, as just discussed, it seems to be laying out an archtiecture, but th= at architecture is not consistent with the other work going on in the IETF = (specifically in the routing area, and known to many of the co-authors of t= his work.) Second, the document states that it is Informational, and then is written a= s if it is defining the one and only way to structure the needed system. Third, related to the second, this document seems to assert that there is a= specific and correct way to use IETF technology to solve the problem. The= n, about three quarters of the way through it remembers that there are mult= iple alternatives for some parts. The IETF rarely writes implementation sp= ecifications. There are other SDOs that do so.=20 They can wrestle with the problem of defining something that can be utili= zed by multiple operators with varying constraints. Why would we want to g= et into trying to have that fight? For the WG chairs, I am trying to figure out how this even fits the DMM cha= rter. It is a LOT more than network exposure, which is the closest I can s= ee in the charter. Yours, unhappily, Joel _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdmm&data=3D04%7C01%7Cjohn.kaippallimalil%4= 0futurewei.com%7C3d167f9186e74cfca90008d8b1d78d79%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1= d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637454886651720444%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w= LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3Ds= TvL%2Bu5b7qLIC%2BAmJ%2FvaIgToUMLUdY4bWCcZBlFn9Kw%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Wed Jan 6 14:40:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FBD13A133F for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 14:40:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xz76UbidYckM for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 14:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22BCA3A12E4 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 14:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB4880MSBz6GVCr; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 14:40:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1609972840; bh=xG6EJVBJTykHVWSZXkFqbBz4rmLCFWM4lrlXx/91VjE=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=XKul6Ja0DdYBvMXLBzmw4VvcLn95q6SOtAdrMbimkn7qQKAgVwPC0YYA7cg7WNHwI +jc+pIXyhXwqN+VKr3BCfcUsTUsATlXFRnfrsScT0JPju023PGh/0yKKqC45JXQDAz Zx9C7dcDDJ/hHdK0khiidayIZ6Wd38ZJpKTZ9PvU= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (unknown [50.225.209.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DB4873VCxz6GFNq; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 14:40:39 -0800 (PST) To: Kaippallimalil John , "dmm@ietf.org" References: <96ffc11c-a823-19ca-3039-7881f60dd9c6@joelhalpern.com> <198e4e59-a9e8-6f46-e4f0-6558ae1f909e@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <159c549a-7e17-f741-0307-dee73dbeeb9e@joelhalpern.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 17:40:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document - Objections X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 22:40:41 -0000 In line, Joel On 1/6/2021 5:29 PM, Kaippallimalil John wrote: > Joel, > This draft is not attempting to lay out a new architecture. The figure and architecture section are there to provide context for the reader. > > The draft is also not asserting that these are the only ways to solve the issue. > The last portion of the draft only refers to applicability since several IETF technology (and even non IETF data plane like L2) may be used E2E in the transport underlay corresponding to a 3GPP overlay (F1/W1, N3, N9). > The draft is agnostic to any specific underlay. It is concerned with how the slice type/QoS properties between 3GPP provider and subscriber (UE) is realized as the data plane GTP packets (overlay) traverse one or more transport underlay segments on path. At the veyr least, the draft needs significant rewording so taht it clealry explains what you are saying here. As currently worded, it does not lead the reader to that understanding. And as such, calls into doubt what the supporters of adoption believe they are adopting. > > The dmm working group seems to be a natural choice as folks there have background and expertise in both IETF and 3GPP technologies. A WG looking like "the natural place" for something does not mean that said working group actually has the given work in its charter. For example, there were quite a number of drafts which were presented in the SFC WG as the natural place for initial discussion, but which did not fit within the SFC charter and therefore were not adopted by SFC as work items. > > Best Regards, > John From nobody Thu Jan 14 10:57:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C8C03A124C for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:56:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d9s5xJcNufQv for ; Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:34:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp13.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041553A0BF5 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:34:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNNIC-THINK (unknown [218.241.111.47]) by ocmail02.zx.nicx.cn (Coremail) with SMTP id AQAAf0AJEiqH5QRgZzWtAA--.22461S2; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:33:59 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:33:58 +0800 From: "Z.W. Yan" To: "Sri Gundavelli \(sgundave\)" , dmm References: <9364FE0E-CA71-46F4-9F9E-1D01D068D677@cisco.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.156[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2021011809335863121610@cnnic.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart302204006062_=----" X-CM-TRANSID: AQAAf0AJEiqH5QRgZzWtAA--.22461S2 X-Coremail-Antispam: 1UD129KBjvdXoWrKr1Duw1DWFyUKFWDtFy5Jwb_yoWkArXEka 9rAFyUu39xtws7tw4ayrW5urZ7W3y5GF1xZFsrXry7X34kJr4DXrWqkrZ8ZFyxXF4Uurnx J3sxX342q343WjkaLaAFLSUrUUUUUb8apTn2vfkv8UJUUUU8Yxn0WfASr-VFAUDa7-sFnT 9fnUUIcSsGvfJTRUUUby8YjsxI4VWxJwAYFVCjjxCrM7AC8VAFwI0_Jr0_Gr1l1xkIjI8I 6I8E6xAIw20EY4v20xvaj40_Wr0E3s1l1IIY67AEw4v_Jr0_Jr4l8cAvFVAK0II2c7xJM2 8CjxkF64kEwVA0rcxSw2x7M28EF7xvwVC0I7IYx2IY67AKxVW5JVW7JwA2z4x0Y4vE2Ix0 cI8IcVCY1x0267AKxVWxJVW8Jr1l84ACjcxK6I8E87Iv67AKxVW8Jr0_Cr1UM28EF7xvwV C2z280aVCY1x0267AKxVWxJr0_GcWle2I262IYc4CY6c8Ij28IcVAaY2xG8wAqx4xG67k0 8I80eVW8JVW5JwAqx4xG64kEw2xG04xIwI0_Jr0_Gr1l5I8CrVCF0I0E4I0vr24lYx0E2I x0cI8IcVAFwI0_JrI_JrylYx0Ex4A2jsIE14v26r1j6r4UMcvjeVCFs4IE7xkEbVWUJVW8 JwACjcxG0xvY0x0EwIxGrwACY4xI67k04243AVAKzVAKj4xxM4xvF2IEb7IF0Fy26I8I3I 1lc2xSY4AK67AK6w4l42xK82IYc2Ij64vIr41l4I8I3I0E4IkC6x0Yz7v_Jr0_Gr1lx2Iq xVAqx4xG67AKxVWUGVWUWwC20s026x8GjcxK67AKxVWUGVWUWwC2zVAF1VAY17CE14v26r 1Y6r17MIIF0xvE2Ix0cI8IcVAFwI0_Jr0_JF4lIxAIcVC0I7IYx2IY6xkF7I0E14v26r1j 6r4UMIIF0xvE42xK8VAvwI8IcIk0rVW3JVWrJr1lIxAIcVC2z280aVAFwI0_Jr0_Gr1lIx AIcVC2z280aVCY1x0267AKxVWUJVW8JwCE64xvF2IEb7IF0Fy7YxBIdaVFxhVjvjDU0xZF pf9x07URpBfUUUUU= X-CM-SenderInfo: x1dqqupqqluhdfq/ Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 01:34:06 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart302204006062_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIGFsbCwNCg0KSSBzdXBwb3J0IGFkb3B0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4NCg0KDQoNClouVy4g WWFuDQogDQpGcm9tOiBTcmkgR3VuZGF2ZWxsaSBcKHNndW5kYXZlXCkNCkRhdGU6IDIwMjAtMTIt MzEgMDI6NDUNClRvOiBkbW0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFtETU1dIENhbGwgZm9yIGFkb3B0aW9uIG9mIGRy YWZ0LWNsdC1kbW0tdG4tYXdhcmUtbW9iaWxpdHktMDggYXMgYSBXRyBkb2N1bWVudA0KRm9sa3M6 DQogDQpUaGUgYXV0aG9ycyBvZiB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQsIFRyYW5zcG9ydCBOZXR3b3JrIGF3YXJl IE1vYmlsaXR5IGZvciA1RywgaGF2ZSBwcmVzZW50ZWQgdGhlIHByb3Bvc2FsIGFuZCB0aGUgbmVl ZCBmb3Igc3RhbmRhcmRpemF0aW9uIGluIG11bHRpcGxlIElFVEYgV0cgbWVldGluZ3MuIFRoZXJl IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBnb29kIGFtb3VudCBvZiBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucyBpbiB0aGUgbWFpbGVycyBhbmQg dGhlcmUgaXMgc29tZSBsZXZlbCBvZiBpbnRlcmVzdCBmb3IgdGhlIHdvcmsgZnJvbSB0aGUgY29t bXVuaXR5LiBXZSBhcmUgdGhlcmVmb3JlIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIHRoZSBhZG9wdGlvbiBvZiB0aGlz IGRvY3VtZW50IGFzIGEgRE1NIFdHIGRvY3VtZW50LCB0byBiZSBtb3ZlZCBvbiBJbmZvcm1hdGlv bmFsIFN0YW5kYXJkcyB0cmFjay4gIA0KIA0KVHJhbnNwb3J0IE5ldHdvcmsgYXdhcmUgTW9iaWxp dHkgZm9yIDVHDQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtY2x0LWRtbS10bi1h d2FyZS1tb2JpbGl0eS0wOA0KIA0KIA0KV2l0aCB0aGlzIGJhY2tncm91bmQsIHdlIHdvdWxkIGxp a2UgdG8gYXNrIHRoZSBXRyB0byBwcm92aWRlIHNvbWUgZmVlZGJhY2sgb24gdGhlaXIgaW50ZXJl c3QgZm9yIHRoaXMgd29yay4gUGxlYXNlIHByb3ZpZGUgc3Vic3RhbnRpYWwgY29tbWVudHMgYXMg d2h5IHRoaXMgU0hPVUxEIGJlIGFkb3B0ZWQsIG9yIHdoeSBpdCBTSE9VTEQgTk9UIGJlIGFkb3B0 ZWQuIElmIHRoZXJlIGlzIGludGVyZXN0LCBhbmQgaWYgdGhlcmUgYXJlIG5vIG90aGVyIGNvbmNl cm5zIGZyb20gQUQvSUVTRy9PdGhlcnMsIHRoZW4gd2UgbWF5IHRha2UgdXAgdGhpcyB3b3JrLiAN CiANClRoZSBhZG9wdGlvbiBjYWxsIHdpbGwgZW5kIG9uIDE4dGggb2YgSmFudWFyeSwgMjAyMS4g DQogDQpSZWdhcmRzDQpETU0gV0cgQ2hhaXJzDQogDQogDQo= ------=_001_NextPart302204006062_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A
Hi, all,
<= br>I support adoption of&nbs= p;the draft.
= =0A

=0A
=0A
Z.W. Yan
 
From: Sri Gundavelli \(sgundave\)<= /div>
Date: 2020-12-31 02:45
To:&nbs= p;dmm
Subject: [DMM] Call fo= r adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document
=0A
=0A

Folks:

=0A

&nbs= p;

=0A

The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobil= ity for 5G, have presented the proposal and the need for standardization i= n multiple IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions=0A= in the mailers and there is some level of interest for the work from the = community. We are therefore considering the adoption of this document as a= DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standards track.  

=0A

 

=0A

Transport Network aware Mobilit= y for 5G

=0A

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mob= ility-08

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 <= /span>

=0A

With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some f= eedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial commen= ts as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT=0A be adopted. If t= here is interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, = then we may take up this work. 

=0A

 

=0A

The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. 

=0A

 

=0A

Regards

=0A

DMM WG Chairs

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart302204006062_=------ From nobody Mon Jan 18 05:25:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2883A132D; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 05:25:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6L50CNn-Ue67; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 05:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AdbtnTwkvWaRqLjmRvCQ5SUSFivHQA== Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 13:25:33 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.46.16.182] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9DGGEMM532MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 13:25:40 -0000 --_000_5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9DGGEMM532MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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boundary="0000000000001e528b05b93191f0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 19:17:06 -0000 --0000000000001e528b05b93191f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > Hi APNers and DMMers, > > I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set > up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not > understand the details. > [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). > I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based > transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according > to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service. > If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please > help provide some details. > > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --0000000000001e528b05b93191f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Robin,

In-line..

Cheers!
--
Uma C.

On Mon, Jan 18, = 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin <lizhe= nbin@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the mobi= le core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and = application requirements, but I do not understand the details.


[Uma]= : Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should= look into=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-upl= ane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references=C2=A0related = this topic was analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when=C2=A0 = any other use plane other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 int= erface).
=C2=A0

I think when the packe= t tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be ma= pped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requ= irements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some details.=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Best Regards,=

Zhenbin (Robin)

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
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boundary="_000_DB7PR06MB4792D734DBDBA27A0CB445DEB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: surrey.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR06MB4792.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3a491f02-6147-4672-3dcd-08d8bbed092f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jan 2021 20:10:00.7749 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6b902693-1074-40aa-9e21-d89446a2ebb5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 6I1QGHe7H7Y+D3w/ZId4lFPqk4WyeaqpDL+wFoyc8/YxLEI8h9kjbMEXPOOLHNN9ihwiMbbEyXO47UoQFBqhbg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR06MB5274 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:10:07 -0000 --_000_DB7PR06MB4792D734DBDBA27A0CB445DEB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The APN provides the linkage between the application profile and the radio = bearers. GTP-u is manner by which the traffic is tunnelled to the anchor p= oint and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP beare= rs. Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE - UPF in 5G) are directed to the= correct APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT). This is to ensure that traf= fic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly in th= e IP network. Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs on their UE; the most common h= idden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use of the TFT, will ensure that= the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and into the= correct class on the IP network. QCI 9 maps to a specific numerology on t= he Air Interface so that quality can be maintained for the voice call. In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TFT rules and potentially multi= ple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is very rarely done. David From: Apn On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: 18 January 2021 19:17 To: Lizhenbin Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ = where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyzed= (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other th= an GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_DB7PR06MB4792D734DBDBA27A0CB445DEB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The APN p= rovides the linkage between the application profile and the radio bearers.&= nbsp; GTP-u is manner by which the traffic is tunnelled to the anchor point= and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP bearers.

&nbs= p;

Traffic a= t both the UE and the PGW (in LTE – UPF in 5G) are directed to the co= rrect APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT).  This is to ensure that tr= affic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly in the IP network.

&nbs= p;

Users wil= l often be unaware of multiple APNs on their UE; the most common hidden APN= is one for VoLTE which, with the use of the TFT, will ensure that the VoIP= frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and into the correct class on the IP network.  QCI 9 m= aps to a specific numerology on the Air Interface so that quality can be ma= intained for the voice call.

&nbs= p;

In theory= , multiple APNs all with their own TFT rules and potentially multiple GTP-u= tunnels could be used but this is very rarely done.

&nbs= p;

David

&nbs= p;

From: Apn <apn-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: 18 January 2021 19:17
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:<= /o:p>

Hi = APNers and DMMers,=

I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP= -u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS= 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses = the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and applicatio= n requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar with t= he principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some details.=  <= /p>

 

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 

 

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

--_000_DB7PR06MB4792D734DBDBA27A0CB445DEB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jan 18 12:26:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FDE3A0475; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:26:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pKQVnE5Y_me0; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com (mail-yb1-xb30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFD203A046B; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id b11so11576818ybj.9; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9E8jLc9VSFergk/QWTk6m7QvZ7gp5T7jFRa2ufD6dwk=; b=nHs09tpxwjAlIohIMw39s5AjfOt3QeKVKhCIr5QifxrVFF6LAXKggBydQsG6Vrw0zT VgVfAgKmzIUxc6RACyxOAGryyCCAkezI1+p3rXI++y740KzZYNPY4n+P4LQTW9EkMV4D WlWFkBWlYgqq9rc9j/yEYKWXr1Lc2U9/pCEAnY3uyQOoVtdNbcATOZYh1ELaAqOEwaqZ Nnhm7B9ao+nrxYmbId3kSj2YR9jWsxQMp/Ya16mRd3tDy+xzpPWt0YiBLpG1Fp/UOyYL U2/JawF/QuC9ujDwFn0TswkiSGcxoVmdrS+JNNfv1Auyu5hhEjLPI2OMVXrkkCJIgdoh K7JQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9E8jLc9VSFergk/QWTk6m7QvZ7gp5T7jFRa2ufD6dwk=; b=n4l0AT3FveqCva/1vontPNMrEG0kUeqOF3bj65ISteJ2GBCbO83W8rdFWW6QQ/AcNp BILTrctAA7uGdgvHSg9vr+zICCPnnJQdqHj2KKe9y5bBUqb88Pc2ck4jbgatrcTKsTX4 6QRl5tnOBCX0igp89w7AFDG1ZDqmqCcudEq/fxBWvsGJU3zEE5o+UWQFNNnRxf8y5bSR EFHM/l9QqV5nKnkK5KIE5M6Wm3Y2sva9Xs1kT8EBAtR18CQZvCLdY3kiPudhd6bLyla6 uFAeQZ9pat6QaBXI5y8NQf+VvvLjMfPebhE9N7PKCXRIKwRQdHaVAgO3lhdIc7u5XC5x aJ0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Oi8pPRIsxID3KPbyl8X2rNqicYsqX4v5RX8dcXYf5fOBWaL5U 382Q1UJ8tUon4Rw3jbWnj8J92JytRI/ZTQWow9JmF2ccK68= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJ+W/G1G3lrdPbBC4YR8A0SAXaxa0csA0pePi4foijG9gGxPzizxqK/C0lrUUNZUb7rUlQtnV7Fce30iKGlm0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:1f87:: with SMTP id f129mr1152199ybf.142.1611001557992; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:25:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:25:47 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Lake Cc: Lizhenbin , "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000098c73c05b9328706" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:26:01 -0000 --00000000000098c73c05b9328706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, Many excellent points below w.r.t GTP-u and the Access Point Name (APN) which defines the network path for all cellular data connectivity. However, I presume Robin was referring to a different APN - https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/apn/about/ -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:10 PM David Lake wrote: > The APN provides the linkage between the application profile and the radi= o > bearers. GTP-u is manner by which the traffic is tunnelled to the anchor > point and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP > bearers. > > > > Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE =E2=80=93 UPF in 5G) are direc= ted to > the correct APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT). This is to ensure that > traffic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly > in the IP network. > > > > Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs on their UE; the most common > hidden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use of the TFT, will ensure > that the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and in= to > the correct class on the IP network. QCI 9 maps to a specific numerology > on the Air Interface so that quality can be maintained for the voice call= . > > > > In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TFT rules and potentially > multiple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is very rarely done. > > > > David > > > > *From:* Apn *On Behalf Of *Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* 18 January 2021 19:17 > *To:* Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Robin, > > > > In-line.. > > > > Cheers! > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi APNers and DMMers, > > I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set > up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not > understand the details. > > > > [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou > should look into > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ > > where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyz= ed > (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other > than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). > > > > I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based > transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according > to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service= . > If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, pleas= e > help provide some details. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > --00000000000098c73c05b9328706 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi David,

Many excellent points below w= .r.t GTP-u and the Access Point Name (APN) which defines the network path f= or all cellular data connectivity.

However, I pres= ume Robin was referring to a different=C2=A0APN -=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/apn/abou= t/=C2=A0

--
Uma C.

On Mon, Jan = 18, 2021 at 12:10 PM David Lake <= d.lake@surrey.ac.uk> wrote:

The APN provides the linkage between the appli= cation profile and the radio bearers.=C2=A0 GTP-u is manner by which the tr= affic is tunnelled to the anchor point and you MAY end up with different en= d points for each of the GTP bearers.

=C2=A0

Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE =E2= =80=93 UPF in 5G) are directed to the correct APN by a Traffic Flow Templat= e (TFT).=C2=A0 This is to ensure that traffic goes across both the correct = radio bearer and is marked correctly in the IP network.

=C2=A0

Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs o= n their UE; the most common hidden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use= of the TFT, will ensure that the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QC= I 9 radio bearer and into the correct class on the IP network.=C2=A0 QCI 9 m= aps to a specific numerology on the Air Interface so that quality can be ma= intained for the voice call.

=C2=A0

In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TF= T rules and potentially multiple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is ve= ry rarely done.

=C2=A0

David

=C2=A0

From: Apn <apn-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: 18 January 2021 19:17
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Robin,

=C2=A0

In-line..

=C2=A0

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

Hi APNers and DMMers,=

I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tun= nel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

=C2=A0

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS= 29.281. However, uou should look into=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references=C2=A0related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when=C2=A0 any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

=C2=A0

I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the AP= N-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and applicatio= n requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar with t= he principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some details.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

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dmm mailing list
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Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:27:21 +0000 From: David Lake To: Uma Chunduri CC: Lizhenbin , "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Thread-Topic: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AdbtnTwkvWaRqLjmRvCQ5SUSFivHQAAMT3cAAAFxrYAAAPZ9gAAAB58A Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:27:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=surrey.ac.uk; x-originating-ip: [81.187.83.88] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3cdeafae-ca4d-4ce0-b7fe-08d8bbef75b2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR06MB3015: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: fE4GBGqpnBBWcWoA+gHVQyardA9yj3W+oyctVEkXa4B87scwOWVEA6po7UyRuQv26SShGPPPeNkCNrb0GR/jVCLRYD9nQFfbxnR5uH38xCkkdjRymxdIlc97sFuxbVRHSxgt9hsc2TqVKeyJzC6FgsV6fJWzH/shtuDy82BiwqC9sapS6svv+mg218F8Kld36nUMqfN/OZkKi210HjYCDwiOKb4b99ydJU0+b7bChUdRPTCACJGWQlFx65tB8N+/qGVbhsoMxqu9vMpw8NoKwkVqVP24kAQcqu8IyMAWmFL8aOKV+xKnbdDOjf7cDjvdrOA91OfSd8N4wv6v/qoBMH/kVs9Rzl5vU0boyY4t09URNjCf+xKApcIHzJBhhdk/KdzEwFMfsAENWygqtuCnfCYybXDI3ivIW9+lOtpbMTqWqKRIFQxEoX4/dC6TSoAdsqhLFHoC1li+kGH9g7znDA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DB7PR06MB47927CDD8EC4A9DD2EB88C9DB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: surrey.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR06MB4792.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3cdeafae-ca4d-4ce0-b7fe-08d8bbef75b2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jan 2021 20:27:21.7960 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6b902693-1074-40aa-9e21-d89446a2ebb5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: SR+oUJkEpMhuE3iDtjL4IsQPrZhL969wXJJRZql1xKE0i8VJ7Z7cbGFxBvsRQ/7Fi859ZEviAAfzWjbwugzwkg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR06MB3015 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:27:29 -0000 --_000_DB7PR06MB47927CDD8EC4A9DD2EB88C9DB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi EEK! This could be a problem then if we have TWO definitions of APN.... David From: Uma Chunduri Sent: 18 January 2021 20:26 To: Lake, David (PG/R - Elec Electronic Eng) Cc: Lizhenbin ; apn@ietf.org; dmm Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi David, Many excellent points below w.r.t GTP-u and the Access Point Name (APN) whi= ch defines the network path for all cellular data connectivity. However, I presume Robin was referring to a different APN - https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/wg/apn/about/ -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:10 PM David Lake > wrote: The APN provides the linkage between the application profile and the radio = bearers. GTP-u is manner by which the traffic is tunnelled to the anchor p= oint and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP beare= rs. Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE - UPF in 5G) are directed to the= correct APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT). This is to ensure that traf= fic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly in th= e IP network. Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs on their UE; the most common h= idden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use of the TFT, will ensure that= the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and into the= correct class on the IP network. QCI 9 maps to a specific numerology on t= he Air Interface so that quality can be maintained for the voice call. In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TFT rules and potentially multi= ple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is very rarely done. David From: Apn > On Behalf Of = Uma Chunduri Sent: 18 January 2021 19:17 To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyz= ed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other = than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_DB7PR06MB47927CDD8EC4A9DD2EB88C9DB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi

&nbs= p;

EEK! = ;  This could be a problem then if we have TWO definitions of APN̷= 0;.

&nbs= p;

David

&nbs= p;

From: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 January 2021 20:26
To: Lake, David (PG/R - Elec Electronic Eng) <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk= >
Cc: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; apn@ietf.org; dmm <dm= m@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi David,

 

Many excellent points below w.r.t GTP-u and the Acce= ss Point Name (APN) which defines the network path for all cellular data co= nnectivity.

 

However, I presume Robin was referring to a differen= t APN - https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/apn/about/ 

 

--

Uma C.

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:10 PM David Lake <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk> wrote:<= /o:p>

The APN provides the linkage between the application profile and t= he radio bearers.  GTP-u is manner by which the traffic is tunnelled t= o the anchor point and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP bearers.

 

Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE – UPF in 5G) are = directed to the correct APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT).  This is= to ensure that traffic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly in the IP network.

 

Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs on their UE; the most= common hidden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use of the TFT, will en= sure that the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and into the correct class on the IP net= work.  QCI 9 maps to a specific numerology on the Air Interface so tha= t quality can be maintained for the voice call.

 

In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TFT rules and potentia= lly multiple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is very rarely done.=

 

David

 

From: Apn = <apn-bounces@i= etf.org> On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: 18 January 2021 19:17
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I re= member that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up acc= ording to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. Howev= er, uou should look into https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I th= ink when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport net= work, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requirements to implement the= uniform service. If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mo= bile core, please help provide some details. 

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

Best= Regards,

Zhen= bin (Robin)

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

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--_000_DB7PR06MB47927CDD8EC4A9DD2EB88C9DB5A40DB7PR06MB4792eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jan 18 12:35:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D365F3A0957; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:34:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HV8pZ1HQc1Bm; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC8723A0912; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:34:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id y4so13874097ybn.3; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:34:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TIjigJvzydaVD+AiU6w+jhkGP9dbTvO1YX8R1pA4Z44=; b=NoxSY34+ehi6Y5mrDq/DvjmltKpbTYZG/E/IhV4azEO5BzeUbplZQKl+oPsKjQokBA LjPHU5ynVuZJ8sJowrrwLyVM7BWvVUy12j4YRJlF8Vn8mgU+VLlMWaEN7RL3ZyALvDqc HwWoyL5uXzqqjs80LB1OgIVfB6hx64LlppxT9UufMiI3jSDdwUKw8nigov2m5Wqu38aN NSM+uYEO3ha4g0NUVt/m4GtRHWLWUJRlJ8ig1pk5EWHMcY1Rr3o98d443pjpSzQHlMUV qCyunEToFzh7r/mMadHXa71mvV30JsagmbS/vMuNxQ2wz+o6A/wxXhRi5izwO9FX2ABi FXIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TIjigJvzydaVD+AiU6w+jhkGP9dbTvO1YX8R1pA4Z44=; b=LKN0NDOuqJgFihAUG+5k1p3w2/LSTic2ifkL3C8f5oZpv3tNjwn69Ym8ZmgDfe4QKH eWWspHY2nhRhMgd1WlfNHgStdicUL/BrEoEoVIKWzhqP9pKo7Ti0pcnhStaN8Sp07bSY OLkyHw/t5Yb0sPcEJkcMr4M5h08ta0CJh4Oo9Zfc+HMms792nQQYGA0f9h3d+B1pq6fS vCQRN7lT76pcSYYYQoVhBhb9TiaanZ21VzHfOCY34vbGy/G2XfJx9siMXltVlKQOPRXS cqtIY0MaUrauNj12Yi3fTQZDxRuykEYOCb3cgoIjaG3w8hYULECWjViiJ1ZEg4klzhQ9 Vpjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5325lr7hek363Oo79uxeS8v1cpB1dt2f6UziTfCI7vmMbdbT5LTQ gDXFZGAOisYSVCkSrtfmDd1r+5D5WfV63MxiYC8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxo2Vm8Jl4rvsWYKY8UFAc7OWKRfO3AU9Ll1XsaCVLG0UmPm8KKmLte3H7V6FKU+VBAHqOH6o74vZJg7Vy10mw= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d7d7:: with SMTP id o206mr1329850ybg.265.1611002091099; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:34:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:34:40 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Lake Cc: Lizhenbin , "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005f5a3405b932a70f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 20:34:55 -0000 --0000000000005f5a3405b932a70f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed & it's better to disambiguate sooner if APN@IETF folks are seeking to work with cellular domain in general. -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:27 PM David Lake wrote: > Hi > > > > EEK! This could be a problem then if we have TWO definitions of APN=E2= =80=A6. > > > > David > > > > *From:* Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* 18 January 2021 20:26 > *To:* Lake, David (PG/R - Elec Electronic Eng) > *Cc:* Lizhenbin ; apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi David, > > > > Many excellent points below w.r.t GTP-u and the Access Point Name (APN) > which defines the network path for all cellular data connectivity. > > > > However, I presume Robin was referring to a different APN - > https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/apn/about/ > > > > > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:10 PM David Lake wrote: > > The APN provides the linkage between the application profile and the radi= o > bearers. GTP-u is manner by which the traffic is tunnelled to the anchor > point and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP > bearers. > > > > Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE =E2=80=93 UPF in 5G) are direc= ted to > the correct APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT). This is to ensure that > traffic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly > in the IP network. > > > > Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs on their UE; the most common > hidden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use of the TFT, will ensure > that the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and in= to > the correct class on the IP network. QCI 9 maps to a specific numerology > on the Air Interface so that quality can be maintained for the voice call= . > > > > In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TFT rules and potentially > multiple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is very rarely done. > > > > David > > > > *From:* Apn *On Behalf Of *Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* 18 January 2021 19:17 > *To:* Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Robin, > > > > In-line.. > > > > Cheers! > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi APNers and DMMers, > > I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set > up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not > understand the details. > > > > [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou > should look into > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ > > where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyz= ed > (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other > than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). > > > > I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based > transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according > to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service= . > If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, pleas= e > help provide some details. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > --0000000000005f5a3405b932a70f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Indeed & it's better to disambiguate sooner if APN= @IETF folks are seeking to work with cellular=C2=A0domain in general.
<= br>
--
Uma C.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:27 PM Dav= id Lake <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk&= gt; wrote:

Hi

=C2=A0

EEK!=C2=A0=C2=A0 This could be a problem then = if we have TWO definitions of APN=E2=80=A6.

=C2=A0

David

=C2=A0

From: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 January 2021 20:26
To: Lake, David (PG/R - Elec Electronic Eng) <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk>
Cc: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi David,

=C2=A0

Many excellent points below w.r.t GTP-u and the Acce= ss Point Name (APN) which defines the network path for all cellular data co= nnectivity.

=C2=A0

However, I presume Robin was referring to a differen= t=C2=A0APN -=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/apn/about/= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:10 PM David Lake <d.lake@surrey.ac.uk> wrote:

The APN provides the linkage between the application= profile and the radio bearers.=C2=A0 GTP-u is manner by which the traffic = is tunnelled to the anchor point and you MAY end up with different end points for each of the GTP bearers.

=C2=A0

Traffic at both the UE and the PGW (in LTE =E2=80=93= UPF in 5G) are directed to the correct APN by a Traffic Flow Template (TFT= ).=C2=A0 This is to ensure that traffic goes across both the correct radio bearer and is marked correctly in the IP network.

=C2=A0

Users will often be unaware of multiple APNs on thei= r UE; the most common hidden APN is one for VoLTE which, with the use of th= e TFT, will ensure that the VoIP frames (media) are put across the QCI 9 radio bearer and into the correct class on the IP net= work.=C2=A0 QCI 9 maps to a specific numerology on the Air Interface so tha= t quality can be maintained for the voice call.

=C2=A0

In theory, multiple APNs all with their own TFT rule= s and potentially multiple GTP-u tunnels could be used but this is very rar= ely done.

=C2=A0

David

=C2=A0

From: Apn <apn-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: 18 January 2021 19:17
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Robin,

=C2=A0

In-line..

=C2=A0

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tun= nel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

=C2=A0

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS= 29.281. However, uou should look into=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references=C2=A0related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when=C2=A0 any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

=C2=A0

I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the AP= N-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requirements to implement the= uniform service. If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mo= bile core, please help provide some details.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

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SMTP id h17mr10037649qtn.45.1611169721266; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:08:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0DEC8F67-ACCF-4E56-99D6-BB93CEFB09E5@cisco.com> <8FB49AD0-7CA7-4509-8174-12CF426AAB49@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8FB49AD0-7CA7-4509-8174-12CF426AAB49@cisco.com> From: "Luis M. Contreras" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 20:08:30 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" Cc: dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e8b42f05b959aebc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 19:08:45 -0000 --000000000000e8b42f05b959aebc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sri, all, apologies for being late, just to express my support as co-author (I have been off for some days, just realized now the closure of the poll) In any case I agree on and remark the need of making documents consistent across WGs. Best regards Luis El mi=C3=A9, 20 ene 2021 a las 19:43, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) () escribi=C3=B3: > Thank you all. This adoption call is now closed. We will review the > feedback. > > > > - Chairs > > > > > > *From: *dmm on behalf of "Sri Gundavelli > (sgundave)" > *Date: *Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 10:56 AM > *To: *dmm > *Subject: *Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > > > > Gentle reminder. > > > > This adoption call with expire on 18th Jan. Please provide your feedback. > > > > Just to structure the discussion, we want to understand a.) if the WG > agrees with the problem statement and is relevant for mobility working > group, b.) is the proposed solution/approach is a reasonable approach, an= d > if it is a good starting point > > > > On the comments on where this work needs to happen etc , feedback is > welcome but I would not worry too much about that now. Let=E2=80=99s agre= e upon the > problem statement first and focus more on the technical aspects. If this = is > a valid problem, we can always decide to do that work here, or in some > other group and that=E2=80=99s based on AD/Chair inputs and on the revie= w > expertise that is needed for this work completion. > > > > -Chairs > > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *dmm on behalf of "Sri Gundavelli > (sgundave)" > *Date: *Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > *To: *dmm > *Subject: *[DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > as a WG document > > > > Folks: > > > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, hav= e > presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple IETF = WG > meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mailers and > there is some level of interest for the work from the community. We are > therefore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, > to be moved on Informational Standards track. > > > > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > > > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedbac= k > on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comments as w= hy > this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is > interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we > may take up this work. > > > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > > > Regards > > DMM WG Chairs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --=20 ___________________________________________ Luis M. Contreras contreras.ietf@gmail.com luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com Global CTIO unit / Telefonica --000000000000e8b42f05b959aebc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sri, all,

apologies for being late, = just to express my support as co-author (I have been off for some days, jus= t realized now the closure of the poll)

In any cas= e I agree on and remark the need of making documents consistent across WGs.=

Best regards

Luis
<= /div>
E= l mi=C3=A9, 20 ene 2021 a las 19:43, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) (<sgundav= e=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or= g>) escribi=C3=B3:

Thank you all. This a= doption call is now closed. We will review the feedback.

=C2=A0<= /span>

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm


--
__________________________= _________________
Luis M. Contreras
<= div>Global CTIO unit / Telefonica
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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 09:21:57 +0800 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.002; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 09:21:57 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" , dmm Thread-Topic: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document Thread-Index: AQHW6qb/P3C+dqhRYUmyQ/xxcxIrVKowXNcAgADwzLA= Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 01:21:57 +0000 Message-ID: <57f47489646645918918dd93fbabf5f8@huawei.com> References: <0DEC8F67-ACCF-4E56-99D6-BB93CEFB09E5@cisco.com> <8FB49AD0-7CA7-4509-8174-12CF426AAB49@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8FB49AD0-7CA7-4509-8174-12CF426AAB49@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.143] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_57f47489646645918918dd93fbabf5f8huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 01:22:05 -0000 --_000_57f47489646645918918dd93fbabf5f8huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBDaGFpcnMsDQoNClNvcnJ5IGZvciB0aGUgbGF0ZSByZXBseS4NCg0KQWZ0ZXIgcmVhZGlu ZyB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBvbiB0aGUgbGlzdCwgSSBhbHNvIHRo aW5rIHNvbWUgYWxpZ25tZW50IHdpdGggdGhlIFRFQVMgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBvbiB0aGUgZGVm aW5pdGlvbiwgdGVybWlub2xvZ3kgYW5kIGZyYW1ld29yayBvZiBuZXR3b3JrIHNsaWNlIHdvdWxk IGJlIGhlbHBmdWwuDQoNCkFzIGZvciB0aGUgdGVjaG5pY2FsIGFzcGVjdHMsIHRvIG15IHVuZGVy c3RhbmRpbmcgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBwcm9wb3NlcyBhIG1lY2hhbmlzbSB0byBwcm92aWRlIHRo 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boundary="0000000000004e6ce405b96cfccd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 18:10:28 -0000 --0000000000004e6ce405b96cfccd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jie, In-line .. -- Uma C. On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 5:22 PM Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote= : > Dear Chairs, > > > > Sorry for the late reply. > > > > After reading this document and the discussion on the list, I also think > some alignment with the TEAS working group on the definition, terminology > and framework of network slice would be helpful. > [Uma]: I supported and gave my suggestions on the TEAS WG definitions draft (where the adoption call for the same ended 2 days ago there). Though there were few opinions, it seems 'IETF Network Slice' terminology may not be changed as a lot of debate happened on that name and it was also being chosen to differentiate the scope from other SDOs (working on various aspects of slicing in general). In any case, as mentioned earlier wherever applicable we will use the terminology (of course, agreeable to this WG). > As for the technical aspects, to my understanding this document proposes = a > mechanism to provide the transport path information to the mobile network > endpoints, which IMO may also be used in networks without network slicing= . > [Uma]: I am not sure why you get that understanding. Could you please elaborate on what caused you to prompt that understanding. AFAIS, that is not the case. Thx! > If this understanding is correct, I=E2=80=99d suggest to clarify the rela= tionship > between the proposed mechanism and the network slicing use case. > > > > Best regards, > > Jie > > > > *From:* dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Sri Gundavelli > (sgundave) > *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2021 2:43 AM > *To:* dmm > *Subject:* Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > > > > Thank you all. This adoption call is now closed. We will review the > feedback. > > > > - Chairs > > > > > > *From: *dmm on behalf of "Sri Gundavelli > (sgundave)" > *Date: *Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 10:56 AM > *To: *dmm > *Subject: *Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of > draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 as a WG document > > > > Gentle reminder. > > > > This adoption call with expire on 18th Jan. Please provide your feedback. > > > > Just to structure the discussion, we want to understand a.) if the WG > agrees with the problem statement and is relevant for mobility working > group, b.) is the proposed solution/approach is a reasonable approach, an= d > if it is a good starting point > > > > On the comments on where this work needs to happen etc , feedback is > welcome but I would not worry too much about that now. Let=E2=80=99s agre= e upon the > problem statement first and focus more on the technical aspects. If this = is > a valid problem, we can always decide to do that work here, or in some > other group and that=E2=80=99s based on AD/Chair inputs and on the revie= w > expertise that is needed for this work completion. > > > > -Chairs > > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *dmm on behalf of "Sri Gundavelli > (sgundave)" > *Date: *Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM > *To: *dmm > *Subject: *[DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > as a WG document > > > > Folks: > > > > The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G, hav= e > presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple IETF = WG > meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mailers and > there is some level of interest for the work from the community. We are > therefore considering the adoption of this document as a DMM WG document, > to be moved on Informational Standards track. > > > > *Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G* > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-08 > > > > > > With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some feedbac= k > on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comments as w= hy > this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is > interest, and if there are no other concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we > may take up this work. > > > > The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021. > > > > Regards > > DMM WG Chairs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --0000000000004e6ce405b96cfccd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jie,

In-line ..

--
Uma C.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 5:22 PM Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com> wrote:

Dear Chairs,

=C2=A0

Sorry for the late reply.

=C2=A0

After reading this document and the discussion on the list= , I also think some alignment with the TEAS working group on the definition= , terminology and framework of network slice would be helpful.

[Uma]: I support= ed and gave my suggestions on the TEAS WG definitions draft (where the=C2= =A0adoption call for the same ended 2 days ago there). Though there were fe= w opinions, it seems 'IETF Network Slice' terminology may not be ch= anged as a lot of debate happened on that name and it was also being chosen= to differentiate=C2=A0 the scope from other SDOs (working on various aspec= ts of slicing in general). In any case, as mentioned earlier wherever appli= cable we will use the terminology (of course, agreeable to this WG).=C2=A0<= /div>
=C2=A0

As for the technical aspects, to my understanding this doc= ument proposes a mechanism to provide the transport path information to the= mobile network endpoints, which IMO may also be used in networks without network slicing.

[Uma]: I am not sure why you get that understanding. Could you p= lease elaborate on what caused you to prompt that understanding. AFAIS, tha= t is not the case. Thx!

If this understanding is correct, I=E2=80=99d suggest = to clarify the relationship between the proposed mechanism and the network = slicing use case.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Jie

=C2=A0

Fro= m: dmm [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 2:43 AM
To: dmm <dmm@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobil= ity-08 as a WG document

=C2=A0

Thank = you all. This adoption call is now closed. We will review the feedback.<= /u>

=C2=A0

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 C= hairs

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> o= n behalf of "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 10:56 AM
To: dmm <dmm@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobil= ity-08 as a WG document

=C2=A0

Gentle= reminder.

=C2=A0=

This a= doption call with expire on 18th Jan. Please provide your feedba= ck.

=C2=A0=

Just t= o structure the discussion, we want to understand a.) if the WG agrees with= the problem statement and is relevant for mobility working group, b.) is t= he proposed solution/approach is a reasonable approach, and if it is a good starting point <= u>

=C2=A0=

On the= comments on where this work needs to happen etc , feedback is welcome but = I would not worry too much about that now. Let=E2=80=99s agree upon the pro= blem statement first and focus more on the technical aspects. If this is a valid problem, we can always decide to do that work = here, or in some other group and that=E2=80=99s based on AD/Chair inputs an= d =C2=A0on the review expertise that is needed for this work completion.

=C2=A0=

-Chair= s

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

From: = dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> o= n behalf of "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 10:45 AM
To: dmm <dmm@ie= tf.org>
Subject: [DMM] Call for adoption of draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-= 08 as a WG document

=C2=A0=

Folks:

=C2=A0

The authors of the document, Transport Network aware Mobility for 5= G, have presented the proposal and the need for standardization in multiple= IETF WG meetings. There have been good amount of discussions in the mailers and there is some level of interest f= or the work from the community. We are therefore considering the adoption o= f this document as a DMM WG document, to be moved on Informational Standard= s track. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Transport Network aware Mobility for 5G

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-awar= e-mobility-08

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

With this background, we would like to ask the WG to provide some f= eedback on their interest for this work. Please provide substantial comment= s as why this SHOULD be adopted, or why it SHOULD NOT be adopted. If there is interest, and if there are no other = concerns from AD/IESG/Others, then we may take up this work.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The adoption call will end on 18th of January, 2021.=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Re= gards

DMM WG Chairs

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm
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boundary="_000_SA0PR13MB408027C75E2F3FAACCC8404CE8A19SA0PR13MB4080namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA0PR13MB4080.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a767e874-9875-44f3-455c-08d8be530825 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Jan 2021 21:25:10.0272 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: shBSNzcuftDAFI/bDmj0KATwzUPN9EPCsmKP7o0GkjjvrAUx3gLK2+26ezM1lGsRNGJlKMJIOp33rrofQ/F9TQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR13MB2464 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 21:25:17 -0000 --_000_SA0PR13MB408027C75E2F3FAACCC8404CE8A19SA0PR13MB4080namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri ; Lizhenbin Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic = was analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use pl= ane other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_SA0PR13MB408027C75E2F3FAACCC8404CE8A19SA0PR13MB4080namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Xuesong,

 

Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU s= ession at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end po= ints, but its control fields are meant for conveying control semantics betw= een the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension = header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the tran= sport network.

 

The entity that classifies data packets (upstream a= t gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet.= The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

 

From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbi= n@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Uma and all,

 

I have read the document and got a few qu= estions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where tra= ffic policy is enforced, the fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the tr= affic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, = according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated?= We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?<= o:p>

 

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn [mailto= :apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@= huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

&nbs= p;

Hi Robin,=

&nbs= p;

In-line..=

&nbs= p;

Cheers! --

Uma C.

&nbs= p;

On Mon, J= an 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the m= obile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not unders= tand the details.

&nbs= p;

[Uma]: Ob= viously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should loo= k into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think when the packet = tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. 

 

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 

 

_________= ______________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<= /span>

--_000_SA0PR13MB408027C75E2F3FAACCC8404CE8A19SA0PR13MB4080namp_-- From nobody Thu Jan 21 18:07:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietf.org Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AB23A0F7F; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 18:07:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: dmm-chairs@ietf.org, dmm@ietf.org, ek.ietf@gmail.com, sgundave@cisco.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161128124992.14050.15766714222295190284@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 18:07:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [DMM] dmm - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 110 X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:07:31 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Sri Gundavelli, a Chair of the dmm working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Distributed Mobility Management Area Name: Internet Area Session Requester: Sri Gundavelli Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 25 Conflicts to Avoid: People who must be present: Sri Gundavelli Erik Kline Dapeng Liu Satoru Matsushima Resources Requested: Special Requests: Preferred days: Monday or Tuesday --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Jan 21 20:40:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256253A0EEF; 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Thu, 21 Jan 2021 20:39:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: From: Sridhar Bhaskaran Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 10:09:19 +0530 Message-ID: To: Kaippallimalil John Cc: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , Uma Chunduri , Lizhenbin , "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007dc03905b975c688" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 04:39:59 -0000 --0000000000007dc03905b975c688 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xuesong, In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of 5G). One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The context gets established through signalling plane. The context provides information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer, PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID). In summary: 1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup for the general QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI 2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific contextual information for any differentiated treatment. Regards Sridhar On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John < john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote: > Hi Xuesong, > > > > Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and > gNB). > > GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control > fields are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoint= s: > they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc a= re > in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify > each packet in the transport network. > > > > The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream a= t > UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is > based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g.= , > using DPI). > > > > Best Regards, > > John > > > > > > *From:* dmm *On Behalf Of *Gengxuesong (Geng > Xuesong) > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM > *To:* Uma Chunduri ; Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Uma and all, > > > > I have read the document and got a few questions: > > In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the > fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u > encapsulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u > tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u > encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters su= ch > as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > *From:* Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM > *To:* Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Robin, > > > > In-line.. > > > > Cheers! > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi APNers and DMMers, > > I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set > up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not > understand the details. > > > > [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou > should look into > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ > > where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyz= ed > (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other > than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). > > > > I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based > transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according > to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service= . > If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, pleas= e > help provide some details. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > --=20 o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --0000000000007dc03905b975c688 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Xuesong,

In addition to what John sa= id, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) a= nd one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of 5G).

One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU sessio= ns and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The= scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the w= ay upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel en= dpoint identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and = gNB. The context gets established through signalling plane. The context pro= vides information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,=C2=A0 PDCP ciph= ering keys applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million = UE that are getting connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tu= nnels (TEID).

In summary:
1. The 5Q= I / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup for the gen= eral QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI
2. TEID in the GT= P-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific contextual informat= ion for any differentiated treatment.

Regards
Sridhar

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John = <john.kaippallimali= l@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Xuesong,

=C2=A0

Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU ses= sion at the UPF (and gNB). =C2=A0

GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end poin= ts, but its control fields are meant for conveying control semantics betwee= n the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension = header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the tran= sport network.

=C2=A0

The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at = gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. T= he classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI). <= /span>

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

John

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Uma and all,

=C2=A0

I have read the document and got a few questions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enfor= ced, the fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the tr= affic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 poli= cy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is genera= ted? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?<= u>

=C2=A0

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Robin,

=C2=A0

In-line..

=C2=A0

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the mobile = core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not unders= tand the details.

=C2=A0

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U= is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplan= e-analysis/ where lot more details and other references=C2=A0related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when=C2=A0 any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

=C2=A0

I think when the packet tunnel= ed by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details.=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

Best Regards,<= /u>

Zhenbin (Robin)

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

______________________________________________= _
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm


--
=C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
= (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

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boundary="_000_DB7PR06MB4792E6BC84478020B120C6E8B5A00DB7PR06MB4792eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: surrey.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR06MB4792.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4da2060c-473e-4bf5-1624-08d8beadde58 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jan 2021 08:15:24.0900 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6b902693-1074-40aa-9e21-d89446a2ebb5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aLVGn72/Z1Pr4aPbKc///qLaWkFexSx4ZYlJzsfEvjkKw/cFFS5C1XpkFoKMldz8wDtKCsAgI8lsgINoSSuZIA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0601MB2360 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:15:31 -0000 --_000_DB7PR06MB4792E6BC84478020B120C6E8B5A00DB7PR06MB4792eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adding to this. The various radio bearers will be established based on APN (that is the 3GP= P APN, not this one) and there will be several parallel paths between UE an= d eNB. The Traffic Flow Template is installed in the UE on EPS Attach and effectiv= ely gives "rules" to the UE as to which bearer traffic should be sent on. = That match is primarily on IP 5-tuple. This is mapped at the eNB to the appropriate GTP tunnel so that QoS can be = maintained across the air-interface and the packet core. https://www.sharetechnote.com/html/Handbook_LTE_TFT.html A common use for this is for media in VoLTE which is placed into a GBR radi= o bearer and then passed across a GTP tunnel with a matching set of QoS tre= atments. The VoIP traffic is "steered" into the VoLTE APN at the UE by the= TFT and then placed into the appropriate GTP tunnel by the eNB. The same may be translated into 5G which really is no different in terms of= protocol and attach architecture from 4G. David From: Apn On Behalf Of Sridhar Bhaskaran Sent: 22 January 2021 04:39 To: Kaippallimalil John Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma = Chunduri ; Lizhenbin ; dmm Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel p= er bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of = 5G). One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU sessions = and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The sc= ope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way = upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identi= fier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The cont= ext gets established through signalling plane. The context provides informa= tion on the QoS to be provided for the bearer, PDCP ciphering keys applica= ble for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million UE that are gettin= g connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID). In summary: 1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup fo= r the general QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI 2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific co= ntextual information for any differentiated treatment. Regards Sridhar On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John > wrote: Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm > On Behalf Of = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenb= in > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ = where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyzed= (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other th= an GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm -- o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --_000_DB7PR06MB4792E6BC84478020B120C6E8B5A00DB7PR06MB4792eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Adding to= this.

&nbs= p;

The vario= us radio bearers will be established based on APN (that is the 3GPP APN, no= t this one) and there will be several parallel paths between UE and eNB.

&nbs= p;

The Traff= ic Flow Template is installed in the UE on EPS Attach and effectively gives= “rules” to the UE as to which bearer traffic should be sent on= .   That match is primarily on IP 5-tuple.

&nbs= p;

This is m= apped at the eNB to the appropriate GTP tunnel so that QoS can be maintaine= d across the air-interface and the packet core.

&nbs= p;

https://www.s= haretechnote.com/html/Handbook_LTE_TFT.html

&nbs= p;

A common = use for this is for media in VoLTE which is placed into a GBR radio bearer = and then passed across a GTP tunnel with a matching set of QoS treatments.&= nbsp; The VoIP traffic is “steered” into the VoLTE APN at the UE by the TFT and then placed into the appropriate GT= P tunnel by the eNB.

&nbs= p;

The same = may be translated into 5G which really is no different in terms of protocol= and attach architecture from 4G.

&nbs= p;

David

&nbs= p;

From: Apn <apn-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sridhar Bhaskaran
Sent: 22 January 2021 04:39
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.= com>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@= huawei.com>; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Xuesong,

 

In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks ther= e is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per P= DU session (in case of 5G).

 

One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have= multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network there may be more than one = tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u d= oes not go all the way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identifi= er). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The contex= t gets established through signalling plane. The context provides informati= on on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,  PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If there are = a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, there could be few millio= n GTP-u tunnels (TEID).

 

In summary:

1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension head= er provides a lookup for the general QoS characteristic applicable for that= 5QI

2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE= and bearer specific contextual information for any differentiated treatmen= t.

 

Regards

Sridhar

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John = <john.kaippallimali= l@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Xuesong,

 

Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per= PDU session at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the = end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying control semantic= s between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the G= TP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packe= t in the transport network.

 

The entity that classifies data packets (upst= ream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP p= acket. The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DP= I).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

 

From: dmm = <dmm-bounces@i= etf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Uma and all,

 

I have read the document and got a few questions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the f= ine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encaps= ulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to wh= ich fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that t= here are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated wi= th a GTP-u tunnel?

 

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn = [mailto:apn-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I re= member that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up acc= ording to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-= U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/= where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I th= ink when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport net= work, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requirements to implement the= uniform service. If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mo= bile core, please help provide some details.&nb= sp;

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

Best= Regards,

Zhen= bin (Robin)

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

_____________________________________________= __
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



--

 o__
 _>  /__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

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boundary="_000_SN6PR13MB23348557039C0104E66F77DC85A09SN6PR13MB2334namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SN6PR13MB2334.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8706f294-6950-4b48-ebe9-08d8bf1861c4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jan 2021 20:57:51.2231 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: JTAdqpNONr9kDJCIuZoCAlnlQT+j+EDyPTQLWAuaGEASG3R0g+Vgj0sNPOGGk5czDFKJgHeZTkJdwNyTgc3Yhg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR13MB4878 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 20:57:57 -0000 --_000_SN6PR13MB23348557039C0104E66F77DC85A09SN6PR13MB2334namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks to Sridhar and John 's insightful description of GTP-u tunnel f= or both 4G and 5G. IMHO, APN should focus on the 5G case, i.e. potentially hundreds of thousan= ds (or even millions) of GTP-u tunnels between a pair of one gNB and one UP= F. I think two scenarios worth exploring further separately: 1. 5G core can exchange signal with the IP network (the N6 interface), m= ore likely the 5G Core and N6 network are administrated by the same network= operator. * 5G core can tag the packets before handing off to the N6 interface= (i.e. the IP network), such as inserting a metadata to the data packets * inform the IP network of the meaning of the inserted Metadata. * The IP network needs to remove the metadata before handing the pac= kets to their destinations 1. There is no communication between the 5G core and the IP network, the= n the IP network can only depend on the priority bits added by the UE, whic= h can be very unpredictable. The Section 4 (Mobility Packet Transition in the Data Network) and the Sect= ion 5 (Transport Network characteristics Mapping to SR-TE Paths) have good = description on how to extend 5G core's TN aware mobility information for va= rious TE paths within IP networks. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-m= cd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobility/ Linda Dunbar From: Apn On Behalf Of Sridhar Bhaskaran Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 10:39 PM To: Kaippallimalil John Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma = Chunduri ; Lizhenbin ; dmm Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel p= er bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of = 5G). One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU sessions = and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The sc= ope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way = upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identi= fier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The cont= ext gets established through signalling plane. The context provides informa= tion on the QoS to be provided for the bearer, PDCP ciphering keys applica= ble for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million UE that are gettin= g connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID). In summary: 1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup fo= r the general QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI 2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific co= ntextual information for any differentiated treatment. Regards Sridhar On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John > wrote: Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm > On Behalf Of = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenb= in > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was= analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane= other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm -- o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --_000_SN6PR13MB23348557039C0104E66F77DC85A09SN6PR13MB2334namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Many thanks to Sridhar and John ‘s insightful = description of GTP-u tunnel for both 4G and 5G.

IMHO, APN should focus on the 5G case, i.e. potentia= lly hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of GTP-u tunnels between a pai= r of one gNB and one UPF.

I think two scenarios worth exploring further separa= tely:

  1. 5G core can exchange signal with the IP network (the N6 interface), m= ore likely the 5G Core and N6 network are administrated by the same network= operator.
    1. 5G core can tag the packets before handing off to the N6 interface (i= .e. the IP network), such as inserting a metadata to the data packets
    2. inform the IP network of the meaning of the inserted = Metadata.
    3. The IP network needs to remove the metadata before ha= nding the packets to their destinations

  1. There is no communication between the 5G core and the IP network, the= n the IP network can only depend on the priority bits added by the UE, whic= h can be very unpredictable.

 

The Section 4 (Mobility Packet Transition in the Dat= a Network) and the Section 5 (Transport Network characteristics Mapping to = SR-TE Paths) have good description on how to extend 5G core’s TN awar= e mobility information for various TE paths within IP networks. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobilit= y/

 

 

Linda Dunbar

From: Apn <apn-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Sridhar Bhaskaran
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 10:39 PM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.= com>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@= huawei.com>; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Xuesong,

 

In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks ther= e is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per P= DU session (in case of 5G).

 

One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have= multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network there may be more than one = tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u d= oes not go all the way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identifi= er). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The contex= t gets established through signalling plane. The context provides informati= on on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,  PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If there are = a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, there could be few millio= n GTP-u tunnels (TEID).

 

In summary:

1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension head= er provides a lookup for the general QoS characteristic applicable for that= 5QI

2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE= and bearer specific contextual information for any differentiated treatmen= t.

 

Regards

Sridhar

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John = <john.kaippallimali= l@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Xuesong,

 

Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the U= PF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its c= ontrol fields are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP end= points: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension header = which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport n= etwork.

 

The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downs= tream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classifica= tion is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

 

From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Uma and = all,

 

I have read= the document and got a few questions:

In my under= standing, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-granularity= services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicat= es the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in = the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that there are param= eters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tun= nel?

 

Best=

Xuesong

From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in = the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the u= ser and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. Howev= er, uou should look into http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think when the pa= cket tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be= mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service.= If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please= help provide some details. 

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

_______________________________________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



--

 o__
 _>  /__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

--_000_SN6PR13MB23348557039C0104E66F77DC85A09SN6PR13MB2334namp_-- From nobody Fri Jan 29 02:01:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3333A0935; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 02:01:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1oYCkFKMpywT; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 02:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 798743A0927; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 02:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml702-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DRt4D1ZYDz67hNj; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:55:08 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) by fraeml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:01:05 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:01:03 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.002; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:01:03 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Kaippallimalil John , Uma Chunduri , Lizhenbin CC: "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Thread-Topic: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AQHW8DvwXJtnK5wofEqwUcHMfFEdSqo+ZbEw Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 10:01:03 +0000 Message-ID: <6c0e8164b76748e5ab21fc6f2d280e2b@huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6c0e8164b76748e5ab21fc6f2d280e2bhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 10:01:16 -0000 --_000_6c0e8164b76748e5ab21fc6f2d280e2bhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, You mentioned that "5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension header which may n= ot be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport network". Th= is is slightly different from my understanding about this: 5QI/QCI belongs = to control plane information, and when the base station encapsulates the pa= cket with GTPu, it maps the 5QI/QCI into the DSCP in IP header outside GTP= u encapsulation. Do I have any misunderstanding about this point? Best Xuesong From: Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com] Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 5:25 AM To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma Chunduri ; Lizhenbin Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm > On Behalf Of = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenb= in > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic = was analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use pl= ane other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_6c0e8164b76748e5ab21fc6f2d280e2bhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi John,

 

You mentioned that “5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP = extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport network”. This is slightly different fr= om my understanding about this: 5QI/QCI belongs to control plane informatio= n, and when the base station encapsulates the packet with GTPu, it maps the= 5QI/QCI into the DSCP in  IP header outside GTPu encapsulation. Do I have any misunderstanding about this point?<= /o:p>

 

Best

Xuesong

 

From: = Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 5:25 AM
To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>; Uma C= hunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>=
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Xuesong,

 

Traffic policy for subscribers is ma= naged per PDU session at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation bet= ween the end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying control= semantics between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the G= TP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packe= t in the transport network.

 

The entity that classifies data pack= ets (upstream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for t= hat GTP packet. The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

 

From: = dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com&= gt;; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn= @ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Uma and all,

 

I have read the document and got a few questions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy = is enforced, the fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the traffic's servic= e requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to w= hich fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that = there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?

 

Best

Xuesong

From: = Apn [m= ailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com&g= t;
Cc: apn= @ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM= Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com= > wrote:

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the mobile core s= cenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the deta= ils.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best refe= rence for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think when the packet tunneled by = GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and applic= ation requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar wi= th the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some deta= ils. 

 

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 

 

_______________________________= ________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<= /span>

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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F1103A0977; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 02:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml740-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DRtCL1w0Wz67gV9; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:01:18 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by fraeml740-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:04:39 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:04:37 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.002; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 18:04:37 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" , Uma Chunduri , Lizhenbin CC: "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Thread-Topic: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AdbtnTwkvWaRqLjmRvCQ5SUSFivHQP//3F8A//vfHeCACFmPh//zBA2g Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 10:04:37 +0000 Message-ID: <18f2cfb91ace4da5bf8859ab7faa90e6@huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com>, , <2021012111452260473910@foxmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2021012111452260473910@foxmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_18f2cfb91ace4da5bf8859ab7faa90e6huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG1tIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kbW08L2E+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImNvbG9yOmJs YWNrIj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4N CjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_18f2cfb91ace4da5bf8859ab7faa90e6huaweicom_-- From nobody Fri Jan 29 02:07:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A893A097E; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 02:07:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DIET_1=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: 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dj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_ab90f474c10048f6b552d863e981a945huaweicom_-- From nobody Fri Jan 29 04:06:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC793A0BF3; Fri, 29 Jan 2021 04:06:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DIET_1=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 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04:06:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: From: Sridhar Bhaskaran Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:35:48 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" Cc: Kaippallimalil John , Uma Chunduri , Lizhenbin , "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ed771605ba08d39c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 12:06:07 -0000 --000000000000ed771605ba08d39c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gengxuesong, QFI (mapped to 5QI) and TEID are to identify QoS flows and PDU sessions within UPF and gNB. They are not meant for transport network to look into. UPF and gNB map QFI to DSCP marking in the outer IP header which the transport network can use for differentiated services. Regards Sridhar On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:37 PM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Sridhar, > > > > Thank you for your additional information. Can I come to a conclusion > that: both 5QI and TEID have the potential to provide additional > information for differentiated services in transport network, although th= e > two parameters act in different scopes? > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > > > *From:* Sridhar Bhaskaran [mailto:sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, January 22, 2021 12:39 PM > *To:* Kaippallimalil John > *Cc:* Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma Chunduri < > umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin ; apn@ietf.org; dmm > > *Subject:* Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Xuesong, > > > > In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel > per bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case = of > 5G). > > > > One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU session= s > and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The > scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the > way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint > identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. > The context gets established through signalling plane. The context provid= es > information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer, PDCP ciphering key= s > applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million UE that a= re > getting connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tunnels > (TEID). > > > > In summary: > > 1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup > for the general QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI > > 2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific > contextual information for any differentiated treatment. > > > > Regards > > Sridhar > > > > On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John < > john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote: > > Hi Xuesong, > > > > Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and > gNB). > > GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control > fields are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoint= s: > they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc a= re > in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify > each packet in the transport network. > > > > The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream a= t > UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is > based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g.= , > using DPI). > > > > Best Regards, > > John > > > > > > *From:* dmm *On Behalf Of *Gengxuesong (Geng > Xuesong) > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM > *To:* Uma Chunduri ; Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Uma and all, > > > > I have read the document and got a few questions: > > In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the > fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u > encapsulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u > tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u > encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters su= ch > as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > *From:* Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM > *To:* Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Robin, > > > > In-line.. > > > > Cheers! > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi APNers and DMMers, > > I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set > up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not > understand the details. > > > > [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou > should look into > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ > > where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyz= ed > (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other > than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). > > > > I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based > transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according > to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service= . > If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, pleas= e > help provide some details. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > > -- > > o__ > _> /__ > (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleane= r > world! :) > > Sridhar Bhaskaran > --=20 o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --000000000000ed771605ba08d39c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gengxuesong,

=
QFI (mapped to 5QI) and TEID are to identify QoS flows and PDU session= s within UPF and gNB. They are not meant for transport network to look into= . UPF and gNB map QFI to DSCP marking in the outer IP header which the tran= sport network can use for differentiated services.

=
Regards
Sridhar

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:37= PM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Sridhar,

=C2=A0

Thank you for your additional information. Can= I come to a conclusion that: both 5QI and TEID have the potential to provide additional information for differentiated services in= transport network, although the two parameters act in different scopes?=

=C2=A0

Best

Xuesong

=C2=A0

From: Srid= har Bhaskaran [mailto:sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 12:39 PM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> Cc: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>; Uma Chunduri <= ;umac.ietf@gmail.c= om>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Xuesong= ,

=C2=A0

In addition to what John said, = in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and o= ne GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of 5G).

=C2=A0

One UE (user equipment - i.e mo= bile device) may have multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network there = may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF= to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tun= nel endpoint identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UP= F and gNB. The context gets established through signalling plane. The conte= xt provides information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,=C2=A0 PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer contex= t etc.,. If there are a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, the= re could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID).

=C2=A0

In summary:

1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the= GTP-u extension header provides a lookup for the general QoS characteristi= c applicable for that 5QI

2. TEID in the GTP-u header pro= vides a lookup for UE and bearer specific contextual information for any di= fferentiated treatment.

=C2=A0

Regards

Sridhar

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM= Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Xuesong,

=C2=A0<= /u>

Traffic policy for subscribers is mana= ged per PDU session at the UPF (and gNB). =C2=A0

GTP-u does provide encapsulation betwe= en the end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP= transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension header = which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport n= etwork.

=C2=A0<= /u>

The entity that classifies data packet= s (upstream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is based on subscriber aspect= s but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI).

=C2=A0<= /u>

Best Regards,

John

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

From: dmm <dmm-bounces@= ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Uma and all,

=C2=A0

I have read the docum= ent and got a few questions:

In my understanding, = in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-granularity services = are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes= into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation t= he DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and= QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?

=C2=A0

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn [mailto:apn-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Robin,<= /p>

=C2=A0

In-line..<= /p>

=C2=A0

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

Hi APNers and = DMMers,

I remember that= in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the deta= ils.

=C2=A0

[Uma]: Obviously, the best refe= rence for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie= tf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references=C2=A0related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when=C2=A0 any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

=C2=A0

I think when th= e packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and applic= ation requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar wi= th the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some deta= ils.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________= ________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

_______________________________= ________________
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htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



--

= =C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran



--
=C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
= (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Xuesong, The point on using GTP-u extension header for classifying each packet was t= hat unlike classifying using DSCP (which is in the IP header), finding the = QCI in GTP extension requires more searches. And the control fields in GTP-= u are for signaling between the 2 GTP end points (gNB, UPF, etc). Now with regard to DSCP, since it is a mutable field, the value can be chan= ged on path. It may be suitable in some deployments but not as a general so= lution. In a gNB or UPF, there is already the subscriber context for a session and = identifiers like radio bearers or IP address (upstream/downstream) to class= ify incoming packets. E.g., a UPF may look up session context indexed by a UE IP address, retriev= e QoS, reliability, etc , classify and select MPLS label L (or a DSCP value= in some cases). However, when there is a gNB or UPF function deployed in one network and IP= transport is provided by another network, DSCP may not be able to convey s= lice aspects for a path across two different networks (this apart from DSCP= being mutable). Best Regards, John From: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 4:01 AM To: Kaippallimalil John ; Uma Chunduri <= umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi John, You mentioned that "5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension header which may n= ot be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport network". Th= is is slightly different from my understanding about this: 5QI/QCI belongs = to control plane information, and when the base station encapsulates the pa= cket with GTPu, it maps the 5QI/QCI into the DSCP in IP header outside GTP= u encapsulation. Do I have any misunderstanding about this point? Best Xuesong From: Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com] Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 5:25 AM To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) >; Uma Chunduri >= ; Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm > On Behalf Of = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenb= in > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this to= pic was analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other us= e plane other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_SA0PR13MB4080548CA69DDD2FAD89A83DE8B99SA0PR13MB4080namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Xuesong,

The point on using GTP-u extension header for class= ifying each packet was that unlike classifying using DSCP (which is in the = IP header), finding the QCI in GTP extension requires more searches. And the control fields in GTP-u are for signaling between t= he 2 GTP end points (gNB, UPF, etc).

 

Now with regard to DSCP, since it is a mutable fiel= d, the value can be changed on path. It may be suitable in some deployments= but not as a general solution.

In a gNB or UPF, there is already the subscriber co= ntext for a session and identifiers like radio bearers or IP address (upstr= eam/downstream) to classify incoming packets.

E.g., a UPF may look up session context indexed by = a UE IP address, retrieve QoS, reliability, etc , classify and select MPLS = label L (or a DSCP value in some cases).

However, when there is a gNB or UPF function deploy= ed in one network and IP transport is provided by another network, DSCP may= not be able to convey slice aspects for a path across two different networks (this apart from DSCP being mutable).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

From: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <= ;gengxuesong@huawei.com>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 4:01 AM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com>; U= ma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com= >
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi John,

 

You mentioned that “5QI/QCI etc are= in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport network”. This is sl= ightly different from my understanding about this: 5QI/QCI belongs to contr= ol plane information, and when the base station encapsulates the packet wit= h GTPu, it maps the 5QI/QCI into the DSCP in  IP header outside GTPu encapsulation. Do I have any misunderstand= ing about this point?

 

Best

Xuesong

 = ;

From: Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 5:25 AM
To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

&nbs= p;

Hi Xuesong,

 =

Traffic policy for subsc= ribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encap= sulation between the end points, but its control fields are meant for conve= ying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc ar= e in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify = each packet in the transport network.

 =

The entity that classifi= es data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts th= e DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.= g., using DPI).

 =

Best Regards,=

John

 =

 =

From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org= > On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.orgdmm@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

&nbs= p;

Hi Uma and all,

 

I have read the document and got a few qu= estions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where tra= ffic policy is enforced, the fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the tr= affic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, = according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated?= We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?<= o:p>

 

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <= lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.orgdmm@ietf.org= >
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

&nbs= p;

Hi Robin,=

&nbs= p;

In-line..=

&nbs= p;

Cheers! --

Uma C.

&nbs= p;

On Mon, J= an 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the m= obile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not unders= tand the details.

&nbs= p;

[Uma]: Ob= viously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should loo= k into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think when the packet = tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. 

 

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 

 

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dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<= /span>

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Xuesong,

If the IP network can obtain the QCI, TEID and other information of GT= P, it can be considered as 5g's natural support for APN, and can also provi= de fine-grained services combined with N6 interface and edge computing. How= ever, based on the previous discussion, it may not be able to directly obtain them. The value of DSCP alone may no= t be enough for APN.

It may need 5g network or UPF to make some additional support. Althoug= h it is not sure whether it is feasible, I think this information still has= the possibility of potential support in the furture?

Regards,
Peng Liu

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Apn <= ;apn-bounces@ietf.org> =B4=FA=B1=ED Sridhar Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaska= ran@gmail.com>
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2021=C4=EA1=D4=C229=C8=D5 20:05
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawe= i.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD: apn@ietf.org <apn@ietf.org>; Uma Chunduri <um= ac.ietf@gmail.com>; Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewe= i.com>; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>=
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core
 
Hi Gengxuesong,

QFI (mapped to 5QI) and TEID are to identify QoS flows and PDU session= s within UPF and gNB. They are not meant for transport network to look into= . UPF and gNB map QFI to DSCP marking in the outer IP header which the tran= sport network can use for differentiated services.

Regards
Sridhar

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:37 PM Gen= gxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengx= uesong@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Sridhar,

 

Thank you for your additional information= . Can I come to a conclusion that: both 5QI and TEID have the potential to provide additional information for differentiated se= rvices in transport network, although the two parameters act in different s= copes?

 

Best

Xuesong

&nbs= p;

From: = Sridhar Bhaskaran [mailto:sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 12:39 PM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> Cc: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>; Uma Chunduri <= ;umac.ietf@gmail.c= om>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; apn@ietf.org; dmm <= ;dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

 

Hi Xuesong,

 

In addition to what John said= , in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and= one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of 5G).

 

One UE (user equipment - i.e = mobile device) may have multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network ther= e may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from U= PF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tun= nel endpoint identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UP= F and gNB. The context gets established through signalling plane. The conte= xt provides information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,  PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer contex= t etc.,. If there are a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, the= re could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID).

 

In summary:

1. The 5QI / QFI marking in t= he GTP-u extension header provides a lookup for the general QoS characteris= tic applicable for that 5QI

2. TEID in the GTP-u header p= rovides a lookup for UE and bearer specific contextual information for any = differentiated treatment.

 

Regards<= /p>

Sridhar<= /p>

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 = AM Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote:<= /u>

Hi Xuesong,

 <= u>

Traffic policy for subscribers is m= anaged per PDU session at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation be= tween the end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying contro= l semantics between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the G= TP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packe= t in the transport network.

 <= u>

The entity that classifies data pac= kets (upstream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for = that GTP packet. The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DP= I).

 <= u>

Best Regards,

John

 <= u>

 <= u>

From: = dmm <dmm-bounc= es@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

 

Hi Uma and all,

 =

I have read the document and got a few qu= estions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where tra= ffic policy is enforced, the fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the tr= affic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, = according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated?= We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?<= /span>

 =

Best

Xuesong

From: = Apn [mailto:apn-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

Hi APNer= s and DMMers,

I remember = that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according = to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details. <= /span>

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best re= ference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft= -ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think whe= n the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, i= t may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service.= If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please= help provide some details. =

 

 

Best Regard= s,

Zhenbin (Ro= bin)

 

 

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--

=  o__
 _>  /__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran



--
 o__
 _>  /__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

--_000_OS0P286MB0338CF95D14828B18EE977A9DAB89OS0P286MB0338JPNP_-- From nobody Sat Jan 30 20:18:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D78B3A149C; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:18:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DIET_1=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R9n0MOH4SpRV; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A994E3A149B; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml701-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DSyR60XmDz67jBT; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 12:15:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.50) by fraeml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 05:18:38 +0100 Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by fraeml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.2106.2 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 05:18:38 +0100 Received: from DGGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.112]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0509.000; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 12:18:27 +0800 From: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" To: Linda Dunbar , Sridhar Bhaskaran , Kaippallimalil John CC: "apn@ietf.org" , "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" , Uma Chunduri , Lizhenbin , dmm Thread-Topic: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AQHW8HiyOJ8wnjtHwEm6Bajj1koq5qozm3CAgA2F69A= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 04:18:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE19864F6F@dggeml512-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.167.44] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE19864F6Fdggeml512mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 04:18:47 -0000 --_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE19864F6Fdggeml512mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Linda, Many thanks for the reference you pointed to. Through this draft I also rea= d the other draft which seems to be source of this work, https://tools.ietf= .org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-07. I will have to first check wh= ether I have understood it correctly. MTNC-ID is generated by 3GPP NSSMF (TNF) and unique per path and per traffi= c class but not per flow/session. The MTNC-ID actually can be seen as an in= dicator of a path/slice in the IP transport network. This ID is carried in = the packets and when the packets reach the transport network PE nodes, the = ID will be read out and according to which the path/slice in the IP transpo= rt network can be selected and the traffic will be steered into it. Am I ri= ght? My first question is where is the MTNC-ID first added, on the UE? gNB? Or U= PF? It is mentioned in the draft that "to mininise the protocol changes are req= uired and make this underlay tranport independent IPv4/IPv6/MPLS/L2), an op= tion is to provision a mapping of MTNC-ID to a UDP port range of the GTP en= capsulated user packet....This mapping is configured in 3GPP user plane fun= ctions (5G-AN, UPF) and Provider Edge (PE) Routers that process MTNC-IDs." My second question is whether the actual mapping procedure is like this. At= the 5G-AN, the MTNC-ID is mapped to the UDP port range in the GTP-u packet= header due to easier implementation/deployment, and then at the PE router,= the UDP port range in the GTP-u header is used to steer the traffic into t= he selected path/slice. Is it correct? It is good for you to consider to extend to N6 since it is IP to further pr= ovide SLA guarantee and other value added services. Do you plan to continue= to using the UDP port range? I just keep wondering whether you have to do = this. The use of the UDP port range is because of the limitation caused by = the GTP-u encapsulation. So when it is N6, it is IP based. You may not need= to continue this limitation. On the other hand, the UDP port range itself = is also very limited, not very meaningful. So what I am thinking is that you could use the APN ID in this case. It can= serve your purpose and achieve more service provisioning possibilities. Thank you very much for starting the discussions in the 5G scenario and N6 = interface in particular! I believe it is a very important case for APN, and= it can be integrated with MEC etc. Best regards, Shuping From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2021 4:58 AM To: Sridhar Bhaskaran ; Kaippallimalil John Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma = Chunduri ; Lizhenbin ; dmm Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Many thanks to Sridhar and John 's insightful description of GTP-u tunnel f= or both 4G and 5G. IMHO, APN should focus on the 5G case, i.e. potentially hundreds of thousan= ds (or even millions) of GTP-u tunnels between a pair of one gNB and one UP= F. I think two scenarios worth exploring further separately: 1) 5G core can exchange signal with the IP network (the N6 interface),= more likely the 5G Core and N6 network are administrated by the same netwo= rk operator. a. 5G core can tag the packets before handing off to the N6 interface = (i.e. the IP network), such as inserting a metadata to the data packets b. inform the IP network of the meaning of the inserted Metadata. c. The IP network needs to remove the metadata before handing the pack= ets to their destinations 2) There is no communication between the 5G core and the IP network, t= hen the IP network can only depend on the priority bits added by the UE, wh= ich can be very unpredictable. The Section 4 (Mobility Packet Transition in the Data Network) and the Sect= ion 5 (Transport Network characteristics Mapping to SR-TE Paths) have good = description on how to extend 5G core's TN aware mobility information for va= rious TE paths within IP networks. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-m= cd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobility/ Linda Dunbar From: Apn > On Behalf Of = Sridhar Bhaskaran Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 10:39 PM To: Kaippallimalil John > Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) >; Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenbin >; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel p= er bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of = 5G). One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU sessions = and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The sc= ope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way = upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identi= fier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The cont= ext gets established through signalling plane. The context provides informa= tion on the QoS to be provided for the bearer, PDCP ciphering keys applica= ble for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million UE that are gettin= g connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID). In summary: 1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup fo= r the general QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI 2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific co= ntextual information for any differentiated treatment. Regards Sridhar On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John > wrote: Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm > On Behalf Of = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenb= in > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was= analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane= other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm -- o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE19864F6Fdggeml512mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Linda,

 

Many thanks for the reference you pointed to. Through this draft = I also read the other draft which seems to be source of this work, = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-clt-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-07. I will = have to first check whether I have understood it correctly.

 

MTNC-ID is generated by 3GPP NSSMF (TNF) and unique per path and = per traffic class but not per flow/session. The MTNC-ID actually can be see= n as an indicator of a path/slice in the IP transport network. This ID is carried in the packets and when the packe= ts reach the transport network PE nodes, the ID will be read out and accord= ing to which the path/slice in the IP transport network can be selected and= the traffic will be steered into it. Am I right?

 

My first question is where is the MTNC-ID first added, on the UE?= gNB? Or UPF?

 

It is mentioned in the draft that “to mininise the protocol= changes are required and make this underlay tranport independent IPv4/IPv6= /MPLS/L2), an option is to provision a mapping of MTNC-ID to a UDP port range of the GTP encapsulated user packet….= This mapping is configured in 3GPP user plane functions (5G-AN, UPF) and Pr= ovider Edge (PE) Routers that process MTNC-IDs.”

 

My second question is whether the actual mapping procedure is lik= e this. At the 5G-AN, the MTNC-ID is mapped to the UDP port range in the GT= P-u packet header due to easier implementation/deployment, and then at the PE router, the UDP port range in the GTP-u header is used = to steer the traffic into the selected path/slice. Is it correct?

 

It is good for you to consider to extend to N6 since it is IP to = further provide SLA guarantee and other value added services. Do you plan t= o continue to using the UDP port range? I just keep wondering whether you have to do this. The use of the UDP port= range is because of the limitation caused by the GTP-u encapsulation. So w= hen it is N6, it is IP based. You may not need to continue this limitation.= On the other hand, the UDP port range itself is also very limited, not very meaningful. =

 

So what I am thinking is that you could use the APN ID in this ca= se. It can serve your purpose and achieve more service provisioning possibi= lities.

 

Thank you very much for starting the discussions in the 5G scenar= io and N6 interface in particular! I believe it is a very important case fo= r APN, and it can be integrated with MEC etc.

 

Best regards,

Shuping

 

 

From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2021 4:58 AM
To: Sridhar Bhaskaran <sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com>; Kaippalli= malil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.= com>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@= huawei.com>; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Many thanks to Sridhar and John= ‘s insightful description of GTP-u tunnel for both 4G and 5G.

IMHO, APN should focus on the 5= G case, i.e. potentially hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of GTP-u = tunnels between a pair of one gNB and one UPF.

I think two scenarios worth exp= loring further separately:

1= )   &= nbsp;  5G core can exchange si= gnal with the IP network (the N6 interface), more likely the 5G Core and N6= network are administrated by the same network operator.

a= .   &= nbsp;  5G core can tag the pac= kets before handing off to the N6 interface (i.e. the IP network), such as = inserting a metadata to the data packets

b= .   &= nbsp;  inform the IP network o= f the meaning of the inserted Metadata.

c= .   &= nbsp;  The IP network needs to= remove the metadata before handing the packets to their destinations<= /o:p>

 

2= )   &= nbsp;  There is no communicati= on between the 5G core and the IP network, then the IP network can only dep= end on the priority bits added by the UE, which can be very unpredictable.

 

The Section 4 (Mobility Packet = Transition in the Data Network) and the Section 5 (Transport Network charac= teristics Mapping to SR-TE Paths) have good description on how to extend 5G= core’s TN aware mobility information for various TE paths within IP networks. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobilit= y/

 

 

Linda Dunbar<= /p>

From: Apn <apn-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Sridhar Bhaskaran
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 10:39 PM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; Gengxuesong (G= eng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huaw= ei.com>; Uma Chunduri <uma= c.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Xuesong,

 

In addition to what John said, = in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and o= ne GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of 5G).

 

One UE (user equipment - i.e mo= bile device) may have multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network there = may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF= to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tun= nel endpoint identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UP= F and gNB. The context gets established through signalling plane. The conte= xt provides information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,  PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer contex= t etc.,. If there are a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, the= re could be few million GTP-u tunnels (TEID).

 

In summary:

1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the= GTP-u extension header provides a lookup for the general QoS characteristi= c applicable for that 5QI

2. TEID in the GTP-u header pro= vides a lookup for UE and bearer specific contextual information for any di= fferentiated treatment.

 

Regards

Sridhar

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM= Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Xuesong,

 

Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per= PDU session at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the = end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying control semantic= s between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the G= TP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packe= t in the transport network.

 

The entity that classifies data packets (upst= ream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP p= acket. The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DP= I).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

 

From: dmm = <dmm-bounces@i= etf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Uma and all,

 

I have read the document and got a few questions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the f= ine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encaps= ulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to wh= ich fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that t= here are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated wi= th a GTP-u tunnel?

 

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn = [mailto:apn-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I re= member that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up acc= ording to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the details.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-= U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-= analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I th= ink when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport net= work, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and application requirements to implement the= uniform service. If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mo= bile core, please help provide some details.&nb= sp;

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

Best= Regards,

Zhen= bin (Robin)

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

_____________________________________________= __
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

_______________________________= ________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



--

=  o__
 _>  /__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

--_000_4278D47A901B3041A737953BAA078ADE19864F6Fdggeml512mbschi_-- From nobody Sun Jan 31 18:40:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dmm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4372E3A1542; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:40:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DIET_1=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s-oacYZUSDu3; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 252113A1541; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DTXCD1pmcz67jYL; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 10:36:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) by fraeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 03:40:22 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 10:40:20 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 10:40:20 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Sridhar Bhaskaran CC: "apn@ietf.org" , Uma Chunduri , Kaippallimalil John , dmm , Lizhenbin Thread-Topic: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AQHW9jcrn6qe5zGXHkm+SgQ+I+rJsapClGvA Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 02:40:20 +0000 Message-ID: <1fe994365b33407984374f4cdd224911@huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1fe994365b33407984374f4cdd224911huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBOrb1wsV_jt; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 19:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3114A3A133E; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 19:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DTYNK096Kz67XjD; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:29:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) by fraeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 04:33:19 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:33:17 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:33:17 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: Kaippallimalil John , Uma Chunduri , Lizhenbin CC: "apn@ietf.org" , dmm Thread-Topic: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Thread-Index: AQHW8DvwXJtnK5wofEqwUcHMfFEdSqo+ZbEw///y2ICABFvS8A== Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 03:33:17 +0000 Message-ID: <11c35afa61d845a0a4e14531630bcfab@huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D939966D9@DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com> <6c0e8164b76748e5ab21fc6f2d280e2b@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_11c35afa61d845a0a4e14531630bcfabhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core X-BeenThere: dmm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Distributed Mobility Management Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 03:33:27 -0000 --_000_11c35afa61d845a0a4e14531630bcfabhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, Thanks for your comments. Please find some response inline. Best Xuesong From: Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com] Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 12:56 AM To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma Chunduri ; Lizhenbin Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, The point on using GTP-u extension header for classifying each packet was t= hat unlike classifying using DSCP (which is in the IP header), finding the = QCI in GTP extension requires more searches. And the control fields in GTP-= u are for signaling between the 2 GTP end points (gNB, UPF, etc). [Xuesong] According to the email from Sridhar, does "requires more searches= " mean that: gNB/UPF needs to first read QFI in GTP-u extension header, th= en map it to the 5QI via the QFI, and determines QoS processing based on 5Q= I? Now with regard to DSCP, since it is a mutable field, the value can be chan= ged on path. It may be suitable in some deployments but not as a general so= lution. [Xuesong] Sorry I'm a little confused here. What does "control fields" refe= r to in GTP-u here? The signaling is in control plane or data plane? In a gNB or UPF, there is already the subscriber context for a session and = identifiers like radio bearers or IP address (upstream/downstream) to class= ify incoming packets. [Xuesong] "DSCP is a mutable field" may be an important limit as the interw= orking identifier between transport network and mobile network. But I'm not= sure whether DSCP is also used in gNB or UPF, rather than transport networ= k, for session context index? E.g., a UPF may look up session context indexed by a UE IP address, retriev= e QoS, reliability, etc , classify and select MPLS label L (or a DSCP value= in some cases). [Xuesong] The concept of "session context" is very interesting here. It see= ms like "session context" could be indexed by UE IP address and it could in= dicates QoS , reliability. Can I find more detailed specification about thi= s in other documents? However, when there is a gNB or UPF function deployed in one network and IP= transport is provided by another network, DSCP may not be able to convey s= lice aspects for a path across two different networks (this apart from DSCP= being mutable). [Xuesong] Network slicing brings more complexity here. Do you think the iss= ue of 5QI->DSCP could also be discussed together with network slicing mappi= ng? Or we could keep them independently first? Best Regards, John From: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 4:01 AM To: Kaippallimalil John >; Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi John, You mentioned that "5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension header which may n= ot be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport network". Th= is is slightly different from my understanding about this: 5QI/QCI belongs = to control plane information, and when the base station encapsulates the pa= cket with GTPu, it maps the 5QI/QCI into the DSCP in IP header outside GTP= u encapsulation. Do I have any misunderstanding about this point? Best Xuesong From: Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com] Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 5:25 AM To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) >; Uma Chunduri >= ; Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Xuesong, Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and g= NB). GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control fi= elds are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: t= hey were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are = in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify ea= ch packet in the transport network. The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream at = UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is b= ased on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., u= sing DPI). Best Regards, John From: dmm > On Behalf Of = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM To: Uma Chunduri >; Lizhenb= in > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Uma and all, I have read the document and got a few questions: In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-= granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulat= ion indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes = into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation th= e DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and = QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? Best Xuesong From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM To: Lizhenbin > Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm > Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core Hi Robin, In-line.. Cheers! -- Uma C. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin > wrote: Hi APNers and DMMers, I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up= according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understan= d the details. [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou s= hould look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-a= nalysis/ where lot more details and other references related this to= pic was analyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other us= e plane other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport= network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the use= r and application requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are= familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provi= de some details. Best Regards, Zhenbin (Robin) _______________________________________________ dmm mailing list dmm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm --_000_11c35afa61d845a0a4e14531630bcfabhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your commen= ts.

Please find some respo= nse inline.

 

Best=

Xuesong

 

 

From: = Kaippallimalil John [mailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2021 12:56 AM
To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>; Uma C= hunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>=
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Xuesong,

The point on using GTP-u extension h= eader for classifying each packet was that unlike classifying using DSCP (w= hich is in the IP header), finding the QCI in GTP extension requires more searches. And the control fields in GTP-u are for = signaling between the 2 GTP end points (gNB, UPF, etc).

[Xuesong] According to= the email from Sridhar, does “requires more searches” mean tha= t: gNB/UPF needs to first read  QFI in GTP-u extension header, then map it to the 5QI via the QFI, and determines QoS processing based on= 5QI?

 

Now with regard to DSCP, since it is= a mutable field, the value can be changed on path. It may be suitable in s= ome deployments but not as a general solution.

[Xuesong] Sorry I̵= 7;m a little confused here. What does “control fields” refer to= in GTP-u here? The signaling is in control plane or data plane?=

 

In a gNB or UPF, there is already th= e subscriber context for a session and identifiers like radio bearers or IP= address (upstream/downstream) to classify incoming packets.

[Xuesong] “DSCP = is a mutable field” may be an important limit as the interworking ide= ntifier between transport network and mobile network. But I’m not sure whether DSCP is also used in gNB or UPF, rather than transport ne= twork, for session context index?

 

E.g., a UPF may look up session cont= ext indexed by a UE IP address, retrieve QoS, reliability, etc , classify a= nd select MPLS label L (or a DSCP value in some cases).

[Xuesong] The concept = of “session context” is very interesting here. It seems like &#= 8220;session context” could be indexed by UE IP address and it could indicates QoS , reliability. Can I find more detailed specification about = this in other documents?

 

However, when there is a gNB or UPF = function deployed in one network and IP transport is provided by another ne= twork, DSCP may not be able to convey slice aspects for a path across two different networks (this apart from DSCP being mutab= le).

[Xuesong] Network slic= ing brings more complexity here. Do you think the issue of 5QI->DSCP cou= ld also be discussed together with network slicing mapping? Or we could keep them independently first?

 

 

Best Regards,

John

 

From: = Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <ge= ngxuesong@huawei.com>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 4:01 AM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin= <lizhenbin@huawei.com> Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi John,

 

You mentioned that “5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP = extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport network”. This is slightly different fr= om my understanding about this: 5QI/QCI belongs to control plane informatio= n, and when the base station encapsulates the packet with GTPu, it maps the= 5QI/QCI into the DSCP in  IP header outside GTPu encapsulation. Do I have any misunderstanding about this point?<= /o:p>

 

Best

Xuesong

 

From: = Kaippallimalil John [m= ailto:john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 5:25 AM
To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Xuesong,

 

Traffic policy for subscribers is ma= naged per PDU session at the UPF (and gNB).  

GTP-u does provide encapsulation bet= ween the end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying control= semantics between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the G= TP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packe= t in the transport network.

 

The entity that classifies data pack= ets (upstream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for t= hat GTP packet. The classification is based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI).

 

Best Regards,

John

 

 

From: = dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com&= gt;; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn= @ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Uma and all,

 

I have read the document and got a few questions:

In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy = is enforced, the fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the traffic's servic= e requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to w= hich fields in the GTP-u encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that = there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?

 

Best

Xuesong

From: = Apn [m= ailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com&g= t;
Cc: apn= @ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core

 

Hi Robin,

 

In-line..

 

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM= Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com= > wrote:

Hi APNers and DMMers,

I remember that in the mobile core s= cenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the deta= ils.

 

[Uma]: Obviously, the best refe= rence for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-upla= ne-analysis/ where lot more details and other references related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when  any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

 

I think when the packet tunneled by = GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and applic= ation requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar wi= th the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some deta= ils. 

 

 

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)

 

 

_______________________________= ________________
dmm mailing list
dmm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm<= /span>

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When the GTP-u tunnel is setup in the UPF by the signalling plane, it provides a "Network Instance" which is just a string that acts as an index into UPF's transport layer configuration. Now what the transport layer configuration is - 3GPP doesn't care as it is out of their remit. If you are using just plain IP routing, then DSCP (for IPv4) and Flow label (IPv6) are the options to map a QFI within a GTP-u tunnel to IP transport. However if you are using - say a source routing technology like SRv6, you may potentially configure the UPF to map a slice (PDU session / TEID) and QFI to a specific SID list. If you use PPR (Preferred path routing), then MTCN-ID is an option. Also note that on the N3 interface between UPF and gNB, if it is going to traverse a public network, operators would employ IPSec tunneling for security. So any markings at the transport protocol layer (e.g. UDP source port) will not be visible to on path routers due to IPSec. In such a case, the mapping of Slice (PDU Session / TEID) and QFI should be to the outer IP header in the IPSec tunnel. This is where a solution at IP header level helps (e.g DSCP / flow label / SID list) Regards Sridhar On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 8:10 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Sridhar, > > > > Thanks for your explanation. It is much clearer for me as the following: > > =C5=BE UPF < ----- GTP-u tunnel [PDU session]------ > gNB > > =C5=BE PDU session contains multiple QoS flows [QFI marker->5QI] > > =C5=BE QFI marker in GTP-u extension header > > 5QI is not in GTP-u header directly but could be indicated by QFI. So the > QoS requirements presented by 5QI can=E2=80=99t be used/seen by transport= network > in the existing in the current implementation (TEID is similar). And DSCP > can act as a mediator between transport network and UPF/gNB. > > Maybe the existing question becomes whether DSCP is sufficient for passin= g > information from the mobile network to transport network? whether there i= s > any simplification or omission of information in the mapping to the DSCP? > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > > > > > *From:* Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Sridhar Bhaskara= n > *Sent:* Friday, January 29, 2021 8:06 PM > *To:* Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; Uma Chunduri ; Kaippallimalil > John ; dmm ; Lizhenbin < > lizhenbin@huawei.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Gengxuesong, > > > > QFI (mapped to 5QI) and TEID are to identify QoS flows and PDU sessions > within UPF and gNB. They are not meant for transport network to look into= . > UPF and gNB map QFI to DSCP marking in the outer IP header which the > transport network can use for differentiated services. > > > > Regards > > Sridhar > > > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:37 PM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) < > gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote: > > Hi Sridhar, > > > > Thank you for your additional information. Can I come to a conclusion > that: both 5QI and TEID have the potential to provide additional > information for differentiated services in transport network, although th= e > two parameters act in different scopes? > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > > > *From:* Sridhar Bhaskaran [mailto:sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, January 22, 2021 12:39 PM > *To:* Kaippallimalil John > *Cc:* Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) ; Uma Chunduri < > umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin ; apn@ietf.org; dmm > > *Subject:* Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Xuesong, > > > > In addition to what John said, in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel > per bearer (in case of 4G) and one GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case = of > 5G). > > > > One UE (user equipment - i.e mobile device) may have multiple PDU session= s > and hence in the network there may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The > scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the > way upto UE. The GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint > identifier). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. > The context gets established through signalling plane. The context provid= es > information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer, PDCP ciphering key= s > applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If there are a million UE that a= re > getting connected to a UPF, there could be few million GTP-u tunnels > (TEID). > > > > In summary: > > 1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the GTP-u extension header provides a lookup > for the general QoS characteristic applicable for that 5QI > > 2. TEID in the GTP-u header provides a lookup for UE and bearer specific > contextual information for any differentiated treatment. > > > > Regards > > Sridhar > > > > On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM Kaippallimalil John < > john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote: > > Hi Xuesong, > > > > Traffic policy for subscribers is managed per PDU session at the UPF (and > gNB). > > GTP-u does provide encapsulation between the end points, but its control > fields are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoint= s: > they were not intended for IP transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc a= re > in the GTP extension header which may not be ideal to lookup to classify > each packet in the transport network. > > > > The entity that classifies data packets (upstream at gNB and downstream a= t > UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is > based on subscriber aspects but may also on be based on its content (e.g.= , > using DPI). > > > > Best Regards, > > John > > > > > > *From:* dmm *On Behalf Of *Gengxuesong (Geng > Xuesong) > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM > *To:* Uma Chunduri ; Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Uma and all, > > > > I have read the document and got a few questions: > > In my understanding, in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the > fine-granularity services are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u > encapsulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u > tunnel goes into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u > encapsulation the DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters su= ch > as 5QI/QCI and QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel? > > > > Best > > Xuesong > > *From:* Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM > *To:* Lizhenbin > *Cc:* apn@ietf.org; dmm > *Subject:* Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core > > > > Hi Robin, > > > > In-line.. > > > > Cheers! > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi APNers and DMMers, > > I remember that in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set > up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not > understand the details. > > > > [Uma]: Obviously, the best reference for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou > should look into > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ > > where lot more details and other references related this topic was analyz= ed > (primarily started after/during REL-15, when any other use plane other > than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface). > > > > I think when the packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based > transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according > to the user and application requirements to implement the uniform service= . > If you are familiar with the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, pleas= e > help provide some details. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenbin (Robin) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > _______________________________________________ > dmm mailing list > dmm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > > > > -- > > o__ > _> /__ > (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleane= r > world! :) > > Sridhar Bhaskaran > > > > -- > > o__ > _> /__ > (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleane= r > world! :) > > Sridhar Bhaskaran > --=20 o__ _> /__ (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner world! :) Sridhar Bhaskaran --0000000000003983c605ba3efb70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gengxuesong,

On,

>> Maybe the existing qu= estion becomes whether DSCP is sufficient for passing information from the = mobile network to transport network? whether there is any simplification or omiss= ion of information in the mapping to the DSCP?

3GPP allows mapping of a GTP-u tunnel (PDU session) to an index to= a transport network configuration / policy via "Network Instance"= ; concept. When the GTP-u tunnel is setup in the UPF by the signalling plan= e, it provides a "Network Instance" which is just a string that a= cts as an index into UPF's transport layer configuration.
Now what the transport layer configuration is - 3GPP doesn'= t care as it is out of their remit. If you are using just plain IP routing,= then DSCP (for IPv4) and Flow label (IPv6) are the options to map a QFI wi= thin a GTP-u tunnel to IP transport. However if you are using - say a sourc= e routing technology like SRv6, you may potentially configure the UPF to ma= p a slice (PDU session / TEID) and QFI to a specific SID list.
If you use PPR (Preferred path routing), then MTCN-ID is an o= ption.

Also note that on the N3 interface bet= ween UPF and gNB, if it is going to traverse a public network, operators wo= uld employ IPSec tunneling for security. So any markings at the transport p= rotocol layer (e.g. UDP source port) will not be visible to on path routers= due to IPSec. In such a case, the mapping of Slice (PDU Session / TEID) an= d QFI should be to the outer IP header in the IPSec tunnel. This is where a= solution at IP header level helps (e.g DSCP / flow label / SID list)
=

Regards
Sridhar

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 = at 8:10 AM Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Sridhar,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your explanation. It is much cleare= r for me as the following:

=C5=BE=C2=A0=C2=A0 UPF < ----- GTP-u tunnel [PDU session]------ > gNB

=C5=BE=C2=A0=C2=A0 PDU session contains multiple QoS flows [QFI marker->5QI]<= u>

=C5=BE=C2=A0=C2=A0 QFI marker in GTP-u extension header

5QI is not in GTP-u header directly but could = be indicated by QFI. So the QoS requirements presented by 5QI can=E2=80=99t be used/seen by transport network in the existing in the= current implementation (TEID is similar). And DSCP can act as a mediator b= etween transport network and UPF/gNB.

Maybe the existing question becomes whether DS= CP is sufficient for passing information from the mobile network to transport network? whether there is any simplification or omiss= ion of information in the mapping to the DSCP?

=C2=A0

Best<= /u>

Xuesong<= u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Apn = [mailto:apn-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sridhar Bhaskaran
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 8:06 PM
To: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@fut= urewei.com>; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Gengxuesong,

=C2=A0

QFI (mapped to 5QI) and TEID ar= e to identify QoS flows and PDU sessions within UPF and gNB. They are not m= eant for transport network to look into. UPF and gNB map QFI to DSCP markin= g in the outer IP header which the transport network can use for differentiated services.

=C2=A0

Regards

Sridhar

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 3:37 PM= Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.com> wrote:=

Hi Sridhar,

=C2=A0

Thank you for your ad= ditional information. Can I come to a conclusion that: both 5QI and TEID ha= ve the potential to provide additional information for differentiated services in transport network, although the two parameters = act in different scopes?

=C2=A0

Best

Xuesong

=C2=A0

From: Srid= har Bhaskaran [mailto:sridhar.bhaskaran@gmail.com<= /span>]
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 12:39 PM
To: Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimal= il@futurewei.com>
Cc: Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong) <gengxuesong@huawei.co= m>; Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Xuesong= ,

=C2=A0

In addition to what John said, = in 3GPP networks there is one GTP-u tunnel per bearer (in case of 4G) and o= ne GTP-u tunnel per PDU session (in case of 5G).

=C2=A0

One UE (user equipment - i.e mo= bile device) may have multiple PDU sessions and hence in the network there = may be more than one tunnel for a UE. The scope of GTP-u tunnel is from UPF to gNB only. GTP-u does not go all the way upto UE. The= GTP-u header has a field called "TEID" (tunnel endpoint identifi= er). The TEID in the header identifies a context in UPF and gNB. The contex= t gets established through signalling plane. The context provides information on the QoS to be provided for the bearer,= =C2=A0 PDCP ciphering keys applicable for the bearer context etc.,. If ther= e are a million UE that are getting connected to a UPF, there could be few = million GTP-u tunnels (TEID).

=C2=A0

In summary:

1. The 5QI / QFI marking in the= GTP-u extension header provides a lookup for the general QoS characteristi= c applicable for that 5QI

2. TEID in the GTP-u header pro= vides a lookup for UE and bearer specific contextual information for any di= fferentiated treatment.

=C2=A0

Regards

Sridhar

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:55 AM= Kaippallimalil John <john.kaippallimalil@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Xuesong,

=C2=A0<= /u>

Traffic policy for subscribers is mana= ged per PDU session at the UPF (and gNB). =C2=A0

GTP-u does provide encapsulation betwe= en the end points, but its control fields are meant for conveying control semantics between the GTP endpoints: they were not intended for IP= transport/ traffic underlays. 5QI/QCI etc are in the GTP extension header = which may not be ideal to lookup to classify each packet in the transport n= etwork.

=C2=A0<= /u>

The entity that classifies data packet= s (upstream at gNB and downstream at UPF-PSA) also inserts the DSCP for that GTP packet. The classification is based on subscriber aspect= s but may also on be based on its content (e.g., using DPI).

=C2=A0<= /u>

Best Regards,

John

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

From: dmm <dmm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:23 PM
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" la= ng=3D"EN-US">>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DMM] [Apn] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Uma and all,

=C2=A0

I have read the docum= ent and got a few questions:

In my understanding, = in the UPF where traffic policy is enforced, the fine-granularity services = are provided. Then what fields in the GTP-u encapsulation indicates the traffic's service requirements? When a GTP-u tunnel goes= into a SRv6 policy, according to which fields in the GTP-u encapsulation t= he DSCP is generated? We know that there are parameters such as 5QI/QCI and= QFI, whether they are associated with a GTP-u tunnel?

=C2=A0

Best

Xuesong

From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 3:17 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
Cc: apn@ietf.org; dmm <dmm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Apn] [DMM] Regarding APN Usecase in Mobile Core=

=C2=A0

Hi Robin,<= /p>

=C2=A0

In-line..<= /p>

=C2=A0

Cheers!
--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 5:25 AM= Lizhenbin <li= zhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi APNers and D= MMers,

I remember that= in the mobile core scenarios the GTP-u tunnel can be set up according to the user and application requirements, but I do not understand the deta= ils.

=C2=A0

[Uma]: Obviously, the best refe= rence for GTP-U is TS 29.281. However, uou should look into=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie= tf-dmm-5g-uplane-analysis/ where lot more details and other references=C2=A0related this topic was an= alyzed (primarily started after/during REL-15, when=C2=A0 any other use pla= ne other than GTP-U is worthwhile is debated for 5G N9 interface).

=C2=A0

I think when th= e packet tunneled by GTP-u traverses the APN-based transport network, it may be mapped to the corresponding tunnel according to the user and applic= ation requirements to implement the uniform service. If you are familiar wi= th the principle of GTP-u in the mobile core, please help provide some deta= ils.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Zhenbin (Robin)=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________= ________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm

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htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm



--

= =C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran



--

= =C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
(_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran



--
=C2=A0o__
=C2=A0_> =C2=A0/__
= (_) \(_)... Burn fat not fuel - Bike along to a healthier life and cleaner =
world! :)

Sridhar Bhaskaran

--0000000000003983c605ba3efb70--