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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F638.F2ADB900-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 02:39:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ehj22-0002yl-HJ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 02:39:06 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01790 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 02:38:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1EhiyC-000PUc-OC for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 07:35:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1Ehiy7-000PT1-7U for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB17Z0U3054567 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:35:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@open.nlnetlabs.nl) Received: (from olaf@localhost) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id jB17Z0gQ054563 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:35:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:35:00 +0100 (CET) From: Olaf Kolkman Message-Id: <200512010735.jB17Z0gQ054563@open.nlnetlabs.nl> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: DNSEXT list policy Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk - List Purpose namedroppers@ops.ietf.org is the mailing list for the IETF DNSEXT working group. See for the wg charter. Messages should be on topics appropriate to the dnsext wg, which are various discussion of the DNS protocols or administrivia of the WG itself. - Specific items that are not not appropriate for posting Calls for papers, announcements of events not directly relevant to the DNS protocols, etc. are not appropriate. Discussion of problems with particular implementations, announcements of releases, sites' misconfigurations, pleas for help with specific implementations, etc. should be done on mailing lists for the particular implementations. There is a working group for dns operational practice, DNSOP, whose charter can be found at . Items relevant to the DNSOP charter are to be discussed on the DNSOP mailinglist. Discussion about the quality of implementations is outside the scope of this list. - Moderation Moderation is based on "subscriber-only with spam filter". To counter a certain class of spam mails messages over 20000 characters, originating from list subscribers, will be held for moderations. Questions or concerns related to the acceptance or rejection of specific messages to the namedroppers mailing list should first be discussed with the wg chairs, with followup appeals using the normal appeals process of rfc 2026 (i.e. follup with area directors, then iesg, etc.). There is a mailing list for the discussion of ietf processes, which includes any general discussion of the moderation of ietf mailing lists. it is poised@lists.tislabs.com --- NOTE WELL: All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to the IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026, which grants to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and rights in such statements. Such statements include verbal statements in IETF meetings, as well as written and electronic communications made at any time or place, which are addressed to - the IETF plenary session, - any IETF working group or portion thereof, - the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG, - the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB, - any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any working group or design team list, or any other list functioning under IETF auspices, - the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF activity, group or function, are not subject to these provisions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- $Id: dnsext-list-policy.txt,v 1.8 2005/01/12 15:54:51 olaf Exp $ -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From apg@angelkingdom.com Thu Dec 01 06:24:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhmY6-0002z1-BQ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 06:24:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26534 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:23:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp85-140-7-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru ([85.140.7.31] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhmsN-000183-73 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 06:45:35 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f668$6d41fd00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Lane Davis" To: Subject: 0EM Software Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:23:38 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F668.6D41FD00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F668.6D41FD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F668.6D41FD00-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 12:44:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhsU7-0005sj-Jp for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:44:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23739 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhsQK-0006oc-CY for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:40:48 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhsQG-0006o7-TG for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:40:45 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB1Hedkj081017 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:40:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB1Hec9C081016 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:40:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.72] (helo=kaboom.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1EhV3t-00031g-R9 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:44:05 +0000 Received: by kaboom.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10200) id 8644C1B636F; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:44:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:44:05 -0800 From: "David W. Hankins" To: Sam Hartman Cc: Ted Lemon , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" , iesg@ietf.org, Pekka Savola , dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" , ietf@ietf.org, "Bernie Volz (volz)" Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] Message-ID: <20051130164405.GD6620@isc.org> References: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C2612@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <200511282136.06370.Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] On Wed, Nov 30, 2005 at 03:51:13AM -0500, Sam Hartman wrote: > Phil is suggesting something like _dhcid.domain . Except the difference between NXDOMAIN and NXRRSET is important for the DHCID. -- David W. Hankins "If you don't do it right the first time, Software Engineer you'll just have to do it again." Internet Systems Consortium, Inc. -- Jack T. Hankins -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 12:44:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhsU8-0005sz-PS for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:44:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23738 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhsPp-0006lk-9P for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:40:17 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhsPl-0006lU-Qf for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:40:14 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB1He6Jj081011 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:40:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB1He6mq081010 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:40:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [69.25.196.178] (helo=carter-zimmerman.mit.edu) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1EhNgR-000PKB-Hq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:51:23 +0000 Received: by carter-zimmerman.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 2AA24E0075; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:51:13 -0500 (EST) To: Ted Lemon Cc: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, "Bernie Volz (volz)" , ietf@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" , Pekka Savola Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] References: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C2612@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <200511282136.06370.Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> From: Sam Hartman Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:51:13 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200511282136.06370.Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> (Ted Lemon's message of "Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:36:05 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] >>>>> "Ted" == Ted Lemon writes: Ted> On Monday 28 November 2005 20:00, Hallam-Baker, Phillip Ted> wrote: >> OK so why are you proposing a new protocol rather than writing >> a description of the protocols that are already in use? Ted> It's inconvenient to use TXT records, because they are not Ted> specific to the purpose. If the user wants TXT records on Ted> the name for some *other* purpose than marking the name with Ted> a DHCID, it doesn't work. Phil is suggesting something like _dhcid.domain . --Sam -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 12:45:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhsUS-0005yC-Eg for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:45:06 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23755 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhsRd-0006wO-GY for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:42:09 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhsRZ-0006vy-Qh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:42:06 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB1Hfv1a081025 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:41:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB1HfvZQ081024 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:41:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [171.71.176.72] (helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1EhonX-000HRY-4J for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:48:31 +0000 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Dec 2005 05:48:20 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,200,1131350400"; d="scan'208"; a="372577748:sNHT615548894" Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jB1Dm2ec013395; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:48:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.15]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:48:11 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to Proposed Standard] Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:48:10 -0500 Message-ID: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21E71B4A@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to Proposed Standard] Thread-Index: AcX1HuBgfRkt42WXRD2+iV6gj0pVfABXSaUw From: "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" To: "Sam Hartman" , "Mark Stapp \(mjs\)" Cc: , , , "Steven M. Bellovin" , , "Pekka Savola" , "Ted Lemon" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2005 13:48:11.0293 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE6C94D0:01C5F67D] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] How about we address issue 1 by expanding the DHCID RR type code. We have 16-bits and we're just using 4 values presently. There's plenty of room for future expansion *SHOULD* someone come along and demand a new algorithm in the future. I can't see why this would EVER occur since this really isn't about strong cryptographic protection (we're just trying to make it non-trivial to find a client's identity by not storing it in clear text). In the -10 draft, Section 3.3 is: 3.3. The DHCID RR Type Codes The DHCID RR Type Code specifies what data from the DHCP client's request was used as input into the hash function. The type codes are defined in a registry maintained by IANA, as specified in Section 7. The initial list of assigned values for the type code is: 0x0000 =3D htype, chaddr from a DHCPv4 client's DHCPREQUEST [7]. 0x0001 =3D The data portion from a DHCPv4 client's Client Identifier option [9]. 0x0002 =3D The client's DUID (i.e., the data portion of a DHCPv6 client's Client Identifier option [10] or the DUID field from a DHCPv4 client's Client Identifier option [12]). 0x0003 - 0xfffe =3D Available to be assigned by IANA. 0xffff =3D RESERVED --- Replace with: 3.3. The DHCID RR Type Codes The DHCID RR Type Code specifies what data from the DHCP client's request was used as input into the hash function and the hash function used. The type codes are defined in a registry maintained by IANA, as specified in Section 7. The initial list of assigned values for the type code is: 0x0000 =3D htype, chaddr from a DHCPv4 client's DHCPREQUEST [7] and MD5 hash. 0x0001 =3D The data portion from a DHCPv4 client's Client Identifier option [9] and MD5 hash. 0x0002 =3D The client's DUID (i.e., the data portion of a DHCPv6 client's Client Identifier option [10] or the DUID field from a DHCPv4 client's Client Identifier option [12]) and MD5 hash. 0x0003 - 0xfffe =3D Available to be assigned by IANA. 0xffff =3D RESERVED --- Note: I used MD5 since that is what the drafts presently specify. This does mean that using the existing update mechanisms as described in the conflict resolution draft will only work if all servers (and clients doing updates) use the same hash algorithm as specified today. But I don't see that being an issue as again, I suspect we'll never change the algorithm. And, if we do, we can revise the update procedure when the draft specifying the new DHCID RR types / algorithm is written. I think this provide Sam his desired ability to rev the algorithm without having to use a new DHCID RR type. And, it avoids complicating the current update producure unnecessarily. - Bernie=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of Sam Hartman > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:48 PM > To: Mark Stapp (mjs) > Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; iesg@ietf.org;=20 > Steven M. Bellovin; dhcwg@ietf.org; Pekka Savola; Ted Lemon > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last=20 > Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to=20 > Proposed Standard] >=20 > >>>>> "Mark" =3D=3D Mark Stapp writes: >=20 >=20 > Mark> would such a clarification be "enough" to resolve your > Mark> DISCUSS, Sam Hartman? that is, if it were clearer that we're > Mark> only aiming for more difficult than not difficult at all - > Mark> would that be sufficiently clear guidance to admins about > Mark> what they should expect from this mechanism? >=20 > So, as I described in my response to Russ, I'm asking for=20 > three things: >=20 > 1) algorithm agility >=20 > 2) Remove the paragraph explaining why md5 is OK or provide a > theoretical model under which we can reason about how good a hash > is at keeping stuff private. >=20 > 3) Use sha-1 or sha-256 instead of md5. >=20 >=20 > I feel very strongly about point 1. Unfortunately I think this is the > point the working group most objects to. I understand the concerns > about the complexity of the update process. However I also know that > security primitives are things that you need to replace from time to > time. If you were using md5 because it had a relatively even > distribution of outputs you could probably convince me that you don't > need a way to update it. However even if weakly you're using md5 for > its cryptographic properties. Those can change over time so you need > a mechanism to react to those changes. >=20 >=20 > I suspect we can all agree that we need to either reword claims about > security of cryptographic primitives so they are clearly true or > remove those claims. So I don't think that we're going to have much > of an issue with point 2. >=20 > I think there is room for discussion on point 3. I think sha-1 or > sha-256 would be a better choice. I think that there is an argument > that md5 is not so bad that it cannot be used. If the working group > ends up responding that it would really like to use md5, I can go to > the security community and see what people think there. >=20 > --Sam >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg >=20 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 15:54:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhvS1-00022y-SE for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:54:45 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27199 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 15:53:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhvNb-0001ug-9x for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:50:11 +0000 Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhvNX-0001r9-SF for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:50:08 +0000 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EhvNR-0006bt-R5; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:50:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:50:01 -0500 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Use of SHA-256 in DNSSEC Delegation Signer (DS) Resource Records (RRs) Author(s) : W. Hardaker Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2005-12-1 This document specifies how to use the SHA-256 digest type in DNS Delegation Signer (DS) Resource Records (RRs). DS records, when stored in a parent zone, point to key signing DNSKEY key(s) in a child zone. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-12-1114838.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-12-1114838.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 15:59:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhvWw-0003uA-SV for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:59:52 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28735 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 15:59:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhvV8-0002k4-Lo for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:57:58 +0000 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhvV5-0002jm-Dx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:57:55 +0000 Received: from vpn-38.vpn.nominum.com (vpn-38.vpn.nominum.com [128.177.199.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6AF5691E; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) From: Ted Lemon Organization: Nominum, Inc. To: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:57:50 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 Cc: "Sam Hartman" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, "Bernie Volz (volz)" , ietf@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" , "Pekka Savola" References: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C28C5@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C28C5@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200512011357.51751.Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thursday 01 December 2005 12:31, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: > My criteria here are that the DNS should support an extension mechanism > that allows the definition of new records at will without the need to > deploy ANY new code at either the client or the server. Right, we have that. It's called the RRtype. Many, many type codes are available. Requiring the use of additional labels and not taking advantage of the very nice DNS update prerequisite support because someone doesn't want to support transparent addition of RRtypes is pathetic. We've had the capacity to extend option codes in every DHCP server (as well as most clients) in existence practically since day one, and that's a much more complicated problem than handling new RRtypes. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 01 18:28:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ehxql-0003Ro-Ob for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:28:28 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA01378 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:27:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ehxml-000JRM-Ue for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:24:19 +0000 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ehxmi-000JR7-MN for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:24:16 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4DEEE603F for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 23:24:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB1NNSeI076629; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:23:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512012323.jB1NNSeI076629@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" Cc: "Ted Lemon" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org, Pekka Savola , dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" , Sam Hartman , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:54:31 -0800." <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C2905@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:23:28 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ted Lemon [mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:58 PM > > To: Hallam-Baker, Phillip > > Cc: Sam Hartman; namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Bernie Volz > > (volz); ietf@ietf.org; iesg@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org; Steven > > M. Bellovin; Pekka Savola > > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last > > Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to > > ProposedStandard] > > > > On Thursday 01 December 2005 12:31, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: > > > My criteria here are that the DNS should support an extension > > > mechanism that allows the definition of new records at will without > > > the need to deploy ANY new code at either the client or the server. > > > > Right, we have that. It's called the RRtype. Many, many > > type codes are > > NO YOU DO NOT > > The majority of the deployed DNS infrastructure does not have the > ability to service new RRs. Actually the majority of DNS servers are capable of handling unknown RRs as are the majority of client resolver libraries. If you ignore Windows this is almost 100% of client resolver libraries are capable of handling unkown RRs. The applications generally decode them. > The opposite claim has been advanced on several occasions but it is > untrue. There is NO version of the Windows DNS server capable of > PRODUCTION publication of new DNS RRs. A registry hack that does not > survive a reboot does not count. Microsoft has shown the actual DNS code > for saving a zone file, new RRs are simply not handled. The world is not Windows. Not deploying a new RR type because Windows patentently got it wrong is STUPID. > Its not just the dns servers, it's the firewalls and a whole > intermediate layer of RPC services that are used to implement DNS calls > in a large number of real environments. Firewalls that block unknown RRs are "broken by design". If you choose to deploy such a broken firewall you get what you deserve. As for client libraries that don't support unknown types. They to are "broken by design". Anyone who has dealt with the DNS should be aware that new RRs are being deployed pretty regularly. Failure to allow retrieval of the raw records was stupid. > > available. Requiring the use of additional labels and not > > taking advantage of the very nice DNS update prerequisite > > support because someone doesn't want > > to support transparent addition of RRtypes is pathetic. > > The DNSEXT group has yet to explain how a production quality DNS server > can add support for a new RR without the need for new code. The ability > to add in blobs of raw hex data does not cut it. Well for this particular application I don't expect humans to ever enter the RR's by hand. All additions and removals are expected to be done via UPDATE. If it wasn't that it is prettier to display the records in master file format there really is no need to add any code to nameservers for this record. As for the general case. The hex encoding is a stopgap measure until you can upgrade / teach the nameserver to know about the type. You complaint also makes a assumption that the IETF should be involed in defining how implemtations add support for new RRs. In my opinion this should be left to the implementation. BIND 9 is designed to make adding a new RR easy. There have been plenty of examples where this has been done to test out new RRs. > > We've had the > > capacity to extend option codes in every DHCP server (as well as most > > clients) in existence practically since day one, and that's a > > much more complicated problem than handling new RRtypes. > > DHCP should stick to reporting the IP address. The idea that > configuration services should be configured at the network connection > level is ridiculous. The fact I am on an ethernet segment does not mean > that I trust it or want anything to do with it. If I am on public WiFi > the idea is nonsense on stilts. This is all "horses for courses". > I would like to discontinue the practice of assigning the domain name > prefix and the DNS servers from DHCP by default. The domain name prefix > should be defined during the MACHINE network configuration alone. The > use of DHCP discovered DNS servers is a major security hazzard. All DNS > transactions should be TSIG signed. > > I will accept the use of DHCP to assist initial machine configuration > and local network configuration. Use of an unauthenticated broadcast > protocol for application configuration is nonsense. > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From kciex@aldoro.com Thu Dec 01 22:41:30 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ei1ne-0003yG-Po for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:41:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA01763 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:40:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from 12-210-39-178.client.insightbb.com ([12.210.39.178] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ei28E-0005bs-8T for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:02:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f6f0$ea18b980$0100007f@localhost> From: "Logan Garcia" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:41:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F6F0.EA18B980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F6F0.EA18B980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F711.EC3F4000-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 02 12:57:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EiF9c-0002tr-SV for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 12:57:05 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24869 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:56:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EiF49-000Fuj-7n for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:51:25 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EiF45-000FuN-8z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:51:22 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB2HpCZv090415 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:51:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB2HpCse090414 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:51:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [65.205.251.75] (helo=robin.verisign.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ehu9s-000Jd3-AD for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:31:56 +0000 Received: from MOU1WNEXCN02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (mailer2.verisign.com [65.205.251.35]) by robin.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB1JVMDG008333; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:31:22 -0800 Received: from MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.25.13.157]) by MOU1WNEXCN02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:31:22 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:31:21 -0800 Message-ID: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C28C5@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] Thread-Index: AcX2mcTTOtXl5EXTTY2JvePLxMvyNAAC9T7w From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" To: "Sam Hartman" , "Ted Lemon" Cc: , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" , , , , "Steven M. Bellovin" , "Pekka Savola" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2005 19:31:22.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFA37BA0:01C5F6AD] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] > From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-ietf@mit.edu]=20 > >>>>> "Ted" =3D=3D Ted Lemon writes: >=20 > Ted> On Monday 28 November 2005 20:00, Hallam-Baker, Phillip > Ted> wrote: > >> OK so why are you proposing a new protocol rather than writing > >> a description of the protocols that are already in use? >=20 > Ted> It's inconvenient to use TXT records, because they are not > Ted> specific to the purpose. If the user wants TXT records on > Ted> the name for some *other* purpose than marking the name with > Ted> a DHCID, it doesn't work. >=20 > Phil is suggesting something like _dhcid.domain . My criteria here are that the DNS should support an extension mechanism that allows the definition of new records at will without the need to deploy ANY new code at either the client or the server. Unless wildcards are required the prefix mechanism described in the SRV rfc allows the existing deployed DNS to be extended without the need for new code deployment.=20 In the cases where wildcards are required for administrative convenience the semantics of the DNS wildcard mechanism do not meet the use cases that were described in MARID in any case. What I suggest is a scheme where we regard the RR type as a means of defining the syntax of a DNS record and apply a prefix to define the precise semantics.=20 Wildcards are a problem whether or not you cut a new RR. In MARID people wanted to define an email policy record for "*.example.com" where "*" has the semantics 'all the nodes in the domain'. The semantics of DNS wildcards are 'all the undefined nodes in the domain'. Despite this flaw a DNS admin running a legacy DNS server can if necessary enter the 'missing' node records by hand. Alternatively the records could be generated using a perl script that expands an expression such as "#.example.com" to indicate 'wildcards that behave the way that you would expect them to'. There is one problem with this approach, it does not work on prefixed records. DNS does not support a wildcard of the form _prefix.*.example.com. This is why specs like DKIM and so on describe stack walking techniques so that a client can find a record with the desired scope. A much better way to solve this problem is to introduce a pointer RR that obeys the semantics of *.example.com or #.example.com the same as any other non-prefixed pointer. The resolution process for a prefixed record then becomes : 1) record =3D resolve ("_prefix.example.com", {TXT, SRV, ...}) if record !=3D null return 'found' 2) pointer =3D resolve (example.com, PTR)=20 if record =3D=3D null return 'not found' 3) record =3D resolve ("_prefix." + pointer, {TXT, SRV, ...}) if record !=3D null return 'found' else return 'not found' This scheme also provides an additional management advantage, instead of configuring policy for each machine individually I can define different policy classes as needed and assign that policy to a particular machine by specifying the corresponding pointer, eg: _dkim.servers.example.com TXT "DKIM policy for servers" _yaddis.servers.example.com TXT "Policy for YADDIS" _dkim.desktop.example.com TXT "DKIM policy for desktops" The open question in this scheme is what record to use for the pointer record. I will accept a situation where we have to do ONE new code deployment to get the DNS into a state where it can be extended at will without further code deployments if that is absolutely necessary. My much prefered solution would be to re-use an existing record. Either a record that is widely implemented but whose original use has been deprecated or a record that can be reused without conflict. A _possible_ candidate for the latter that I have yet to hear a reasonabe argument against is the PTR record where the use is currently defined for reverse DNS domains only. By 'reasoned argument against' I mean 'this will break this existing deployed code' or 'the XYZ dns server is widely used (>5%) and only allows PTR records to be defined in the reverse DNS'. I do not accept 'that is not the way we do it' as a reasoned argument. People are already using prefix records, there is even an unofficial registry of prefixes. There are also people who spend a lot of time and effort re-inventing the DNS in order to graft on a very small amount of policy distribution functionality. Today people are told to get in line and grovel for an RR assignment. You then have to grovel to the maintainers of the four or five major DNS server distributions to implement your record and then wait a few years for them to take their own sweet time to get around to it. And after all that is done you have to persuade registrars to provide support. The minimum time in which that type of change can be achieved in the Internet as it exists today is a decade. Three years to get your spec to the point where IANA deigns to give you a RR assignment, another three years while the DNS implementations get round to adding it onto their roadmaps, another four or five years for a minimal level of critical mass to be established. All it takes to avoid this ten year plus delay is to take a slightly different view of the DNS architecture, looking at it as a large DEPLOYED infrastructure and not a collection of specifications. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 02 13:16:01 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EiFRs-0000h7-1H for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:16:01 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26909 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:15:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EiFOH-000IgH-0n for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 18:12:13 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EiFOD-000Iff-2Z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 18:12:09 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB2HpoC6090421 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:51:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB2HpoRh090420 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:51:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [65.205.251.74] (helo=colibri.verisign.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EhwOE-0009Ry-1A for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:54:54 +0000 Received: from MOU1WNEXCN03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (mailer6.verisign.com [65.205.251.33]) by colibri.verisign.com (8.13.1/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB1LsZEK026373; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:54:35 -0800 Received: from MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.25.13.157]) by MOU1WNEXCN03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:54:35 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:54:31 -0800 Message-ID: <198A730C2044DE4A96749D13E167AD377C2905@MOU1WNEXMB04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to ProposedStandard] Thread-Index: AcX2ueielAiDf+pASoeXva+5ZulAwQABd/cA From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" To: "Ted Lemon" Cc: "Sam Hartman" , , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" , , , , "Steven M. Bellovin" , "Pekka Savola" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2005 21:54:35.0345 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1798410:01C5F6C1] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ted Lemon [mailto:Ted.Lemon@nominum.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 3:58 PM > To: Hallam-Baker, Phillip > Cc: Sam Hartman; namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Bernie Volz=20 > (volz); ietf@ietf.org; iesg@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org; Steven=20 > M. Bellovin; Pekka Savola > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last=20 > Call:'Resolution ofFQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to=20 > ProposedStandard] >=20 > On Thursday 01 December 2005 12:31, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: > > My criteria here are that the DNS should support an extension=20 > > mechanism that allows the definition of new records at will without=20 > > the need to deploy ANY new code at either the client or the server. >=20 > Right, we have that. It's called the RRtype. Many, many=20 > type codes are=20 NO YOU DO NOT The majority of the deployed DNS infrastructure does not have the ability to service new RRs. The opposite claim has been advanced on several occasions but it is untrue. There is NO version of the Windows DNS server capable of PRODUCTION publication of new DNS RRs. A registry hack that does not survive a reboot does not count. Microsoft has shown the actual DNS code for saving a zone file, new RRs are simply not handled. Its not just the dns servers, it's the firewalls and a whole intermediate layer of RPC services that are used to implement DNS calls in a large number of real environments. > available. Requiring the use of additional labels and not=20 > taking advantage of the very nice DNS update prerequisite=20 > support because someone doesn't want=20 > to support transparent addition of RRtypes is pathetic. =20 The DNSEXT group has yet to explain how a production quality DNS server can add support for a new RR without the need for new code. The ability to add in blobs of raw hex data does not cut it.=20 =20 > We've had the=20 > capacity to extend option codes in every DHCP server (as well as most > clients) in existence practically since day one, and that's a=20 > much more complicated problem than handling new RRtypes. DHCP should stick to reporting the IP address. The idea that configuration services should be configured at the network connection level is ridiculous. The fact I am on an ethernet segment does not mean that I trust it or want anything to do with it. If I am on public WiFi the idea is nonsense on stilts. I would like to discontinue the practice of assigning the domain name prefix and the DNS servers from DHCP by default. The domain name prefix should be defined during the MACHINE network configuration alone. The use of DHCP discovered DNS servers is a major security hazzard. All DNS transactions should be TSIG signed. I will accept the use of DHCP to assist initial machine configuration and local network configuration. Use of an unauthenticated broadcast protocol for application configuration is nonsense. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 02 16:22:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EiIMI-00066k-1K for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:22:22 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24814 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:21:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EiIId-000Hev-4r for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:18:35 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EiIIZ-000Hea-HU for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:18:31 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.96] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB2LIGtT091419; Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:18:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:18:35 -0500 To: iesg@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 10:53 -0500 11/22/05, The IESG wrote: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s-01.txt # This document describes two methods: # # 1. An ``absolute method'', which returns the immediate predecessor # or successor of a domain name such that no valid DNS name could # exist between that DNS name and the predecessor or successor. # # 2. A ``modified method'', which returns a predecessor and successor # which are more economical in size and computation. This method # is restricted to use with zones consisting exclusively of owner # names that contain no more than one label more than the owner # name of the apex, where the longest possible owner name (i.e. one # with a maximum length left-most label) would not exceed the # maximum DNS name length. This is, however, the type of zone for # which the technique of online signing is most likely to be used. I have two comments to make on this. One is that I think it's unwise to design a standard part of the protocol based on the data content of the zone. I'm referring to the sentiment in the last sentence of the quoted section. This is not a concrete comment, just a design guideline, and it is less important than my next comment. Back in the times of the first DNSSEC definition, the reason that the NXT records listed two names in the zone was to limit the benefit of replaying the NXT records do deny other names. At the time, a common practice in answering negatively was (and is) to include an SOA record. Simply signing the SOA record and returning that accomplishes the goal of source authenticity. But it leaves open the vulnerability of the replay attack. That is why the NXT limited the span of names. The span of names in the NXT wasn't meant to expose the contents of the zone. The span of names was meant to cut down the replay attack damage. That names in the zone were used was for convenience, and because it gave us names to use in pre-computing (off-line signing) all of the needed negative answers. Keeping in mind that we discourage (or should, I recall talking about this) caches from being used to speak authoritatively about data and the behavior of negative caches, does it really matter if the NSEC contents are "true?" Especially when what is "true" can change with dynamic update. My point here is, perhaps the modified method is all that is needed, regardless of the kind of data in the zone. Can we get away with one approximately good method instead of having to define two exacting methods? Can't we simplify this? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From GilbertPenn@nishaunni.com Sun Dec 04 00:53:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eimot-0000Yy-B4 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:53:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07587; Sun, 4 Dec 2005 00:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ein9u-00080u-1k; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 01:15:38 -0500 Received: from c-67-168-184-187.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.168.184.187]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EimoH-0002aL-NM; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:53:18 -0500 Received: from pGC6@localhost by sYnq.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sun, 04 Dec 2005 11:32:59 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Ezra Williams" Reply-To: "Ezra Williams" To: droyer@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 Adobe Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 05:28:59 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: GilbertPenn@nishaunni.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--988261466426265" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 XgJ ----988261466426265 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable t
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----988261466426265-- From GilbertPenn@nishaunni.com Sun Dec 04 00:54:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EimpN-0000pK-EW for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:54:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07601; Sun, 4 Dec 2005 00:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [85.206.83.183] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EinAN-000810-Ov; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 01:16:09 -0500 Received: from pGC6@localhost by sYnq.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Sun, 04 Dec 2005 11:32:59 +0500 Message-ID: From: "Ezra Williams" Reply-To: "Ezra Williams" To: droyer@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 Adobe Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 05:28:59 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: GilbertPenn@nishaunni.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--988261466426265" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 XgJ ----988261466426265 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable t
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----988261466426265-- From lktq32c@angeluccibuilders.com Sun Dec 04 18:08:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ej2xz-00086W-7R for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:08:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA27481 for ; Sun, 4 Dec 2005 18:07:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from bgp01097572bgs.warn1201.mi.comcast.net ([68.43.145.97] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ej3J9-0007gF-Ar for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:30:16 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f926$1ff2b380$0100007f@localhost> From: "Arthur Wright" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:08:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F926.1FF2B380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F926.1FF2B380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 46 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 36 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 33 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F926.1FF2B380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F926.1FF2B380-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 00:07:04 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ej8Z6-0001MO-OQ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 00:07:04 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA28486 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 00:06:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ej8UD-0001r7-C4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 05:02:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS, SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ej8UC-0001qv-Nh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 05:02:00 +0000 Received: from vpn-38.vpn.nominum.com (vpn-38.vpn.nominum.com [128.177.199.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3CD5688A; Sun, 4 Dec 2005 21:01:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) From: Ted Lemon Organization: Nominum, Inc. To: Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last =?iso-8859-1?q?Call=3A=27Resolution=09of_FQDN_Conflicts_among_DHCP?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Clients=27_to_Proposed?= Standard] Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 22:01:55 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , Sam Hartman , "Mark Stapp (mjs)" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Pekka Savola , dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" References: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21E71B4A@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.c om> <6D833ECBE3AA81689639E39A@bistromath.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <6D833ECBE3AA81689639E39A@bistromath.pc.cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200512042201.56737.Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday 04 December 2005 21:42, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > In order the update mechanism to work > without requiring either an advance query or multiple update attempts, all > possible updaters must agree in advance on the type in use. =A0This lack = of > negotiation seems problematic to me, even in the absence of multiple hash > algorithms. The whole point of this protocol is that the rendezvous point is the DNS. = So=20 if you make the algorithm for computing the DHCID variable based on a=20 configuration setting on the DHCP server, then you have to accept that two= =20 DHCP servers that are configured to use different hash algorithms will not= =20 interoperate. This is not currently the case with the different DHCID=20 types, because the algorithm used depends on what the client sends, and we= =20 can safely assume that the client will always send the same thing; if it do= es=20 not, then according to RFC2131/2132, it is not the same client. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From elvizp@acupofwisdom.com Mon Dec 05 00:40:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ej955-0000BQ-6r for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 00:40:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA00983 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 00:39:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from pc-63-44-215-201.cm.vtr.net ([201.215.44.63] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ej9QH-0002J6-Ji for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 01:02:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f95c$da051200$0100007f@localhost> From: "Trey Roberts" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 05:39:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F95C.DA051200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F95C.DA051200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F95C.DA051200-- From cgez.bfzui@anodic-oxidation.com Mon Dec 05 04:00:34 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjCD4-00084j-72 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 04:00:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18192 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 03:59:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [220.163.80.148] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EjCYG-0000F7-86 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 04:22:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f978$9d471400$0100007f@localhost> From: "Javier Kelly" To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 09:00:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F978.9D471400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F978.9D471400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 47 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 33 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 37 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F978.9D471400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F978.9D471400-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 10:18:29 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjI6n-0007yI-Bd for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:18:29 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01369 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:17:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjI27-0001a5-7D for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:13:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.248.199.23] (helo=mx3.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjI26-0001Zq-6A for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:13:38 +0000 Received: from staff.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.199.129]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2005 15:13:32 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,217,1131321600"; d="scan'208"; a="2044817:sNHT25839152" Received: (from geoff@localhost) by staff.nominet.org.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) id jB5FDVpY029710; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:13:31 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:13:31 GMT From: Geoffrey Sisson Message-Id: <200512051513.jB5FDVpY029710@staff.nominet.org.uk> To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Edward Lewis wrotes: > At 10:53 -0500 11/22/05, The IESG wrote: > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s-01.txt > > # This document describes two methods: > # > # 1. An ``absolute method'', which returns the immediate predecessor > # or successor of a domain name such that no valid DNS name could > # exist between that DNS name and the predecessor or successor. > # > # 2. A ``modified method'', which returns a predecessor and successor > # which are more economical in size and computation. This method > # is restricted to use with zones consisting exclusively of owner > # names that contain no more than one label more than the owner > # name of the apex, where the longest possible owner name (i.e. one > # with a maximum length left-most label) would not exceed the > # maximum DNS name length. This is, however, the type of zone for > # which the technique of online signing is most likely to be used. > > I have two comments to make on this. > > One is that I think it's unwise to design a standard part of the > protocol based on the data content of the zone. I'm referring to the > sentiment in the last sentence of the quoted section. This is not a > concrete comment, just a design guideline, and it is less important > than my next comment. Note that -ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s has been requested for publication as Experimental, so it's not part of the protocol. The described methods are provided as an aid to implementors and are not normative. > Keeping in mind that we discourage (or should, I recall talking about > this) caches from being used to speak authoritatively about data and > the behavior of negative caches, does it really matter if the NSEC > contents are "true?" Especially when what is "true" can change with > dynamic update. > > My point here is, perhaps the modified method is all that is needed, > regardless of the kind of data in the zone. Can we get away with one > approximately good method instead of having to define two exacting > methods? Can't we simplify this? The "modified method" would be quite broken for some types of zones, e.g. ones with lots of deeply-nested empty non-terminals. For example: $ORIGIN 5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. 1.1.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR 9.9.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR . . . When using the modified method, a query with a QNAME of 4.4.2.2.3.3.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. would produce this response: 2\255{62}.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. IN NSEC 3\000.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. ... This would potentially deny the existence of quite a few existing DNS names, substantially increasing it's utility for replay attacks. Geoff -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 10:23:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjIC7-0000XZ-7M for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:23:59 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02032 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjI8m-00029F-5i for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:20:32 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjI8k-00028w-Hz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:20:31 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5FKOYM020249 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:20:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB5FKOJU020248 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:20:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [128.2.194.193] (helo=currant.srv.cs.cmu.edu) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ej8CM-0000H7-Dv for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 04:43:34 +0000 Received: from CRUNCHBERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU ([128.2.203.75]) by currant.srv.cs.cmu.edu id aa22707; 4 Dec 2005 23:43 EST Received: from bistromath-home.pc.cs.cmu.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1/yBswF+vyn+L8RAOy3wGC7auyAAkL75Wk@NEUPERT-EFFECT.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.200.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by crunchberry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB54gxup016416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 4 Dec 2005 23:43:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:42:58 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , Sam Hartman , "Mark Stapp (mjs)" cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, Pekka Savola , Ted Lemon , iesg@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" , Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to Proposed Standard] Message-ID: <6D833ECBE3AA81689639E39A@bistromath.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21E71B4A@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> References: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21E71B4A@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.c om> Originator-Info: login-token=Mulberry:01NGd2c57P6+eAsu70Z+Wm4svZrZ67m++h3KTYauc=; token_authority=postmaster@andrew.cmu.edu X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.3.2, Antispam-Data: 2005.12.4.39 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] On Thursday, December 01, 2005 08:48:10 AM -0500 "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > How about we address issue 1 by expanding the DHCID RR type code. We > have 16-bits and we're just using 4 values presently. There's plenty of > room for future expansion *SHOULD* someone come along and demand a new > algorithm in the future. I can't see why this would EVER occur since > this really isn't about strong cryptographic protection (we're just > trying to make it non-trivial to find a client's identity by not storing > it in clear text). I think that's a good start; in fact, I was going to propose something very similar. This solves half the problem; particularly, it makes it possible to indicate that some other hash is in use. It does bind the hash to the type, rather than allowing them to be specified orthogonally, but I don't think that's a major problem. If it ever becomes an issue, there should be no problem defining a type where the next 16 bits indicate a subtype and the 16 bits after that indicate a hash. However, it doesn't solve the other half of the problem, which is present even without considering changing hash algorithms. The problem is that for any given fqdn and DHCP client, there are multiple possible DHCID RR's; in particular, one for each type. In order the update mechanism to work without requiring either an advance query or multiple update attempts, all possible updaters must agree in advance on the type in use. This lack of negotiation seems problematic to me, even in the absence of multiple hash algorithms. -- Jeffrey T. Hutzelman (N3NHS) Sr. Research Systems Programmer School of Computer Science - Research Computing Facility Carnegie Mellon University - Pittsburgh, PA -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 10:23:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjIC6-0000Xi-Sx for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:23:59 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02047 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:23:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjI9T-0002Fr-Ud for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:21:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjI9S-0002Ej-VB for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:21:15 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5FL9Bu020255 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:21:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB5FL9qh020254 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:21:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [171.71.176.70] (helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ej8Qq-0001Xe-2E for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 04:58:32 +0000 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Dec 2005 20:58:32 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,213,1131350400"; d="scan'208"; a="681242904:sNHT36637436" Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jB54wRQK010553; Sun, 4 Dec 2005 20:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.15]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 4 Dec 2005 23:58:27 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to Proposed Standard] Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 23:58:25 -0500 Message-ID: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21ED9685@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to Proposed Standard] Thread-Index: AcX5VnAYlXdVKdBhQiKK8gzzfaYRtgAAZQIg From: "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" To: "Jeffrey Hutzelman" , "Sam Hartman" , "Mark Stapp \(mjs\)" Cc: , , "Pekka Savola" , "Ted Lemon" , , , "Steven M. Bellovin" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2005 04:58:27.0307 (UTC) FILETIME=[875833B0:01C5F958] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] If you're going to have multiple DHCP servers, such as failover pairs, doing the DNS updates, you need to have those servers agree on how they will identify the clients. This is not JUST for DNS updates. Failover partners need to use the same identifiers for clients. So, this is really not an issue. The rules are pretty clearly described in the RFC: For DHCPv4: 1. Use the DUID if the client identifier option is provided by the client and it is a DUID and the server supports it. This is a new RFC that is in the RFC-editor queue so no clients and servers yet support this. 2. Otherwise, use the client identifier option if provided by the client, 3. Otherwise, use htype and chaddr. For DHCPv6: 1. Use the DUID of the client. There really is no mystery here. - Bernie=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey Hutzelman [mailto:jhutz@cmu.edu]=20 > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 11:43 PM > To: Bernie Volz (volz); Sam Hartman; Mark Stapp (mjs) > Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; Pekka Savola;=20 > Ted Lemon; iesg@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org; Steven M. Bellovin;=20 > Jeffrey Hutzelman > Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last=20 > Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to=20 > Proposed Standard] >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thursday, December 01, 2005 08:48:10 AM -0500 "Bernie Volz (volz)"=20 > wrote: >=20 > > How about we address issue 1 by expanding the DHCID RR type code. We > > have 16-bits and we're just using 4 values presently.=20 > There's plenty of > > room for future expansion *SHOULD* someone come along and=20 > demand a new > > algorithm in the future. I can't see why this would EVER occur since > > this really isn't about strong cryptographic protection (we're just > > trying to make it non-trivial to find a client's identity=20 > by not storing > > it in clear text). >=20 > I think that's a good start; in fact, I was going to propose=20 > something very=20 > similar. This solves half the problem; particularly, it=20 > makes it possible=20 > to indicate that some other hash is in use. It does bind the=20 > hash to the=20 > type, rather than allowing them to be specified orthogonally,=20 > but I don't=20 > think that's a major problem. If it ever becomes an issue,=20 > there should be=20 > no problem defining a type where the next 16 bits indicate a=20 > subtype and=20 > the 16 bits after that indicate a hash. >=20 > However, it doesn't solve the other half of the problem,=20 > which is present=20 > even without considering changing hash algorithms. The=20 > problem is that for=20 > any given fqdn and DHCP client, there are multiple possible=20 > DHCID RR's; in=20 > particular, one for each type. In order the update mechanism to work=20 > without requiring either an advance query or multiple update=20 > attempts, all=20 > possible updaters must agree in advance on the type in use. =20 > This lack of=20 > negotiation seems problematic to me, even in the absence of=20 > multiple hash=20 > algorithms. >=20 > -- Jeffrey T. Hutzelman (N3NHS) > Sr. Research Systems Programmer > School of Computer Science - Research Computing Facility > Carnegie Mellon University - Pittsburgh, PA >=20 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 10:25:01 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjID5-0000lw-Fu for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:25:01 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02305 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:24:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjIAH-0002KY-MG for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:22:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjIAG-0002K6-Jq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:22:05 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5FLvtn020261 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:21:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB5FLvoA020260 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:21:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [128.2.194.193] (helo=currant.srv.cs.cmu.edu) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjA8x-000ApP-HL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 06:48:11 +0000 Received: from CRUNCHBERRY.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU ([128.2.203.75]) by currant.srv.cs.cmu.edu id aa23236; 5 Dec 2005 1:47 EST Received: from bistromath-home.pc.cs.cmu.edu (IDENT:U2FsdGVkX1+pFRFIhG09PQXQS2XUSj9BIt+UJ+J4bJg@NEUPERT-EFFECT.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.200.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by crunchberry.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB56lP3L016486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Dec 2005 01:47:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 01:47:24 -0500 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , Sam Hartman , "Mark Stapp (mjs)" cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, Pekka Savola , Ted Lemon , iesg@ietf.org, dhcwg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" , Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: RE: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last Call:'Resolution of FQDN Conflicts among DHCP Clients' to Proposed Standard] Message-ID: <2715D4C641D4A232641C3DA5@bistromath.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21ED9685@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.com> References: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21ED9685@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.c om> Originator-Info: login-token=Mulberry:01VtD2TcA4a8GiG27OiU4mvO1CLXjdBG/DRSSyjFA=; token_authority=postmaster@andrew.cmu.edu X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-PMX-Version: 4.7.1.128075, Antispam-Engine: 2.1.0.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.12.4.43 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] On Sunday, December 04, 2005 11:58:25 PM -0500 "Bernie Volz (volz)" wrote: > If you're going to have multiple DHCP servers, such as failover pairs, > doing the DNS updates, you need to have those servers agree on how they > will identify the clients. This is not JUST for DNS updates. Failover > partners need to use the same identifiers for clients. The document I read identifies several possible situations in which DHCID records are used to coordinate between updaters which are not DHCP failover partners. It discusses a scenario in which multiple clients may attempt to issue updates for the same name (and, presumably, in which more than one client is authorized to issue such an update; otherwise, there would be no problem), and one in which a client moves between subnets served by different DHCP servers, both of which are authorized issue updates for the client's FQDN. You can plausibly argue that the two DHCP servers in the second scenario, while not failover partners, are nonetheless part of the same administrative domain and require coordination. Such an argument seems a little weak to me, but if that were the only issue, I could live with it. I suppose you can also argue that two clients configured to use the same name will (by design) not produce the same DHCID RR's even if they use the same type, and therefore there's not a problem if they use different types. That I'll definitely buy. However, what about a scenario where both a client and the DHCP server on its home network are authorized to do the updates. When the client is at home, it lets the server do the update. When it is off-site at an IETF meeting, the IETF DHCP server has no authorization to update the client's fqdn, so the client must do so itself. Now, if the client and its home DHCP server disagree on which type to use, then the update may fail. > The rules are pretty clearly described in the RFC: > > For DHCPv4: > 1. Use the DUID if the client identifier option is provided by the > client and it is a DUID and the server supports it. This is a new RFC > that is in the RFC-editor queue so no clients and servers yet support > this. > 2. Otherwise, use the client identifier option if provided by the > client, > 3. Otherwise, use htype and chaddr. The rules are clear, but require that all possible updaters have the same view of the world. Consider the client I described above, which identifies itself with a DUID. So, as far as the client knows, it should follow rule 1 and use the DUID to form a DHCID record. Unfortunately, the client's home DHCP server doesn't support DUID's, so it skips rule 1 and follows rule 2, using the client identifier. It gets worse when you start adding new types after DHCID support is widely deployed. In fact, you arguably have that problem already, since a client supporting this option doesn't know whether its home server even supports the DHCID RR, as opposed to using the TXT record method. If you think my example involving both a client and a server is contrived, consider a client which always does its own updates. When such a client is updated, it may begin supporting new DHCID record types. It may begin supporting DUID's, or even be required to switch from non-DUID client identifiers to DUID's because it now supports IPv6. In each of these cases, the client will fail to perform an update because its new DHCID value is different from the old one. You can require the client to give up its lease and remove the record prior to shutting down, but such a requirement is fragile because a client may shut down unexpectedly, with no chance to send a DDNS update first. In short, as long as the only authorized updaters are a set of carefully coordinated DHCP servers which never receive configuration changes or software upgrades, everything works. Once you introduce clients (which by their nature are unpredictable) or support for new DHCID types, the negotiation problem becomes an issue. It's possible to work around by performing an extra query to determine what DHCID type is in use, but you seem to want to avoid that. -- Jeff -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 10:48:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjIaB-00020H-II for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:48:51 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05220 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:48:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjIWF-0004Q9-C4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:44:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjIWD-0004Pv-0c for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:44:45 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5FiVRk020459; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:44:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200512051513.jB5FDVpY029710@staff.nominet.org.uk> References: <200512051513.jB5FDVpY029710@staff.nominet.org.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:37:09 -0500 To: Geoffrey Sisson From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard Cc: Edward Lewis , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 15:13 +0000 12/5/05, Geoffrey Sisson wrote: >Note that -ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s has been requested for publication >as Experimental, so it's not part of the protocol. The described >methods are provided as an aid to implementors and are not normative. I hate dropping into document politics as a backdrop for a technical discussion. I mean, I just wanted to re-express the original intent because I think the solution is more complicated than it need to be. >The "modified method" would be quite broken for some types of zones, >e.g. ones with lots of deeply-nested empty non-terminals. For example: > > $ORIGIN 5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. > > 1.1.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR > > 9.9.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR > > . . . > >When using the modified method, a query with a QNAME of >4.4.2.2.3.3.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. would produce this response: > > 2\255{62}.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. IN NSEC 3\000.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. ... > >This would potentially deny the existence of quite a few existing DNS >names, substantially increasing it's utility for replay attacks. The question isn't exactness, it's simplicity. E.g., in the example you raise, enumeration isn't an issue, so I'd say it's a bad example to use in the sense that it isn't a realistic dilemma. The essence of my comment is that the attempts to remove enumerability from DNSSEC mean "violating" assumptions made in the decision tree [1] used long ago to arrive at the NXT record. I don't mean to infer that the decision tree is sacrosanct, but that the path then chosen was the least intolerable. Going back on that has two options - deciding than a discarded option wasn't so bad or approximating something. I see this, sometimes called "white lies" as being an approximation of the zone's contents to throw off would-be enumerators. Being an approximation, there will be in accuracies. The question isn't whether there are, but whether the inaccuracy will cause a problem. I.e., so what if I say that for x.example, there is nothing from t.example to z.example, yet if you ask for y.example, I answer with that data. Yeah, a replay is possible. I'm sure you can run through the options (tighten up the denied space, give the real space, return to signing the SOA). Do you think that a more exacting approach will payoff per unit of effort to get there? Maybe so, I'm just commenting. [1] - http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2004/msg01406.html, not an authoritative rendition of it, but that is what I think the decision tree was. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 11:57:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjJeS-0006FE-L4 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 11:57:20 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12784 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:56:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjJbl-0009ti-33 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:54:33 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS,SPF_PASS,SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjJbi-0009tU-NA for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:54:30 +0000 Received: from vpn-38.vpn.nominum.com (vpn-38.vpn.nominum.com [128.177.199.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C983F5688A; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 08:54:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ted.Lemon@nominum.com) From: Ted Lemon Organization: Nominum, Inc. To: Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Re: DHCID and the use of MD5 [Re: Last =?iso-8859-1?q?Call=3A=27Resolution=09of_FQDN_Conflicts_among_DHCP?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Clients=27_to_Proposed?= Standard] Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 09:54:26 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 Cc: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , Sam Hartman , "Mark Stapp (mjs)" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Pekka Savola , iesg@ietf.org, "Steven M. Bellovin" References: <8E296595B6471A4689555D5D725EBB21ED9685@xmb-rtp-20a.amer.cisco.c om> <2715D4C641D4A232641C3DA5@bistromath.pc.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <2715D4C641D4A232641C3DA5@bistromath.pc.cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200512050954.27180.Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday 04 December 2005 23:47, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > However, what about a scenario where both a client and the DHCP server on > its home network are authorized to do the updates. =A0When the client is = at > home, it lets the server do the update. =A0When it is off-site at an IETF > meeting, the IETF DHCP server has no authorization to update the client's > fqdn, so the client must do so itself. =A0Now, if the client and its home > DHCP server disagree on which type to use, then the update may fail. Are you under the impression from reading the documents carefully that this= =20 scenario is valid? Because I don't see that it is - in general, it's not= =20 possible for the client to know when sending a DHCPDISCOVER whether or not= =20 it's at home, and it's supposed to send the same options in its DHCPREQUEST= =2E =20 So the only way that it can work when you have the client doing updates of= =20 its own A record is for the client to _always_ do its own update, whether=20 it's at home or away. Furthermore, if you think about it, this makes sens= e=20 anyway - why have a complicated decision-making process in a scenario where= =20 the decision being made doesn't affect the outcome of the protocol? -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 13:05:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjKiG-0001q5-K7 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 13:05:20 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21463 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:04:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjKfL-000FBc-P0 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:02:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.248.199.23] (helo=mx3.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjKfK-000FBO-Jn for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:02:18 +0000 Received: from staff.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.199.129]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2005 18:02:17 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,217,1131321600"; d="scan'208"; a="2046731:sNHT28530024" Received: (from geoff@localhost) by staff.nominet.org.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) id jB5I2Fw2000075; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:02:15 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:02:15 GMT From: Geoffrey Sisson Message-Id: <200512051802.jB5I2Fw2000075@staff.nominet.org.uk> To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Edward Lewis wrotes: > At 15:13 +0000 12/5/05, Geoffrey Sisson wrote: > > >Note that -ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s has been requested for publication > >as Experimental, so it's not part of the protocol. The described > >methods are provided as an aid to implementors and are not normative. > > I hate dropping into document politics as a backdrop for a technical > discussion. I mean, I just wanted to re-express the original intent > because I think the solution is more complicated than it need to be. Hi Ed, This was in response to your comment: > I think it's unwise to design a standard part of the protocol based on > the data content of the zone. It was simply to clarify that the methods described in draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s are not part of the NSEC epsilon protocol, but are implementation details that may be disregarded without protocol violation. The NSEC epsilon protocol is defined solely by draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-online-signing. I'm not sure how I was invoking document politics by attempting make this clarification. > >The "modified method" would be quite broken for some types of zones, > >e.g. ones with lots of deeply-nested empty non-terminals. For example: > > > > $ORIGIN 5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. > > > > 1.1.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR > > > > 9.9.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR > > [snip] > E.g., in the example you raise, enumeration isn't an issue, so I'd say > it's a bad example to use in the sense that it isn't a realistic dilemma. You may prefer this real-life example: We at Nominet maintain a zone for the sch.uk domain with the following structure: $ORIGIN sch.uk. . IN NS . IN NS e.g.: ------------------------ Begin included text ------------------------ . . . appleton.oxon IN NS ns0.netcentral.co.uk. appleton.oxon IN NS ns1.netcentral.co.uk. aston-and-cote IN NS ns0.netcentral.co.uk. aston-and-cote IN NS ns1.netcentral.co.uk. . . . ------------------------- End included text ------------------------- For a query with QNAME asbo.oxon.sh.uk., using the modified method would result in this NSEC RR: oxom\255{59}.sch.uk. IN NSEC oxon\000.sch.uk. NSEC RRSIG The response could then be used to deny the existence of any of the 300+ DNS names in the oxon.sch.uk. domain. In fact, the existence of _any_ desired DNS name in .sch.uk could be trivially denied by generating a suitable QNAME and then replaying the result. > The essence of my comment is that the attempts to remove > enumerability from DNSSEC mean "violating" assumptions made in the > decision tree [1] used long ago to arrive at the NXT record. I think this more a comment on draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-online-signing than on draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s (which is a supporting document for the former). > Being an > approximation, there will be in accuracies. The question isn't > whether there are, but whether the inaccuracy will cause a problem. I hope I've been persuasive that the use of the "modified method" with some zones will result in unacceptable inaccuracies, which is why it's not the only one presented. Geoff -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 14:04:40 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjLdf-0002Ro-Uy for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:04:40 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA27818 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:03:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjLaI-000KNU-Nu for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:01:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjLaG-000KN7-6E for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:01:08 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5J0qmb024291; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:00:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200512051802.jB5I2Fw2000075@staff.nominet.org.uk> References: <200512051802.jB5I2Fw2000075@staff.nominet.org.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:01:04 -0500 To: Geoffrey Sisson From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard Cc: Edward Lewis , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 18:02 +0000 12/5/05, Geoffrey Sisson wrote: >I hope I've been persuasive that the use of the "modified method" with >some zones will result in unacceptable inaccuracies, which is why it's >not the only one presented. I wonder if the modified method needs to be documented so thoroughly then. I mean, if this is meant to be a guide to implementers of general purpose code, how do they make use of it? Would they interpret the document as saying "if you support this experimental specification, you use the modified if the zone is one-label deep else you have to do the other method?" I probably should read the front matter again to see how this suggestion is motivated. (I say this instead of just doing it because of other time commitments.) I was looking mostly at the "guts of the science" last time. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 14:22:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjLuW-0007Ov-TJ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:22:05 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29901 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:21:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjLrP-000MHa-TO for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:18:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SBL, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.163.8.251] (helo=SMTP.Lamicro.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjLrP-000MHI-4j for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:18:51 +0000 Received: from Spooler by SMTP.Lamicro.com (Mercury/32 v4.01b) ID MO002579; 5 Dec 2005 14:18:53 -0500 Received: from spooler by Lamicro.com (Mercury/32 v4.01b); 5 Dec 2005 14:18:27 -0500 Received: from connotech.com (209.71.204.101) by SMTP.Lamicro.com (Mercury/32 v4.01b) with ESMTP ID MG002578; 5 Dec 2005 14:18:18 -0500 Message-ID: <43949A78.2050103@connotech.com> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:52:24 -0500 From: Thierry Moreau User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian Jackson CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Trust anchor key IPR issues within existing DNS operations business model References: <4383950A.4040501@connotech.com> <17300.32731.311564.489172@davenant.relativity.greenend.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <17300.32731.311564.489172@davenant.relativity.greenend.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Jackson wrote: > > There are numerous registries in the hierarchy which do not have > similar `business models' and may not even be businesses. [...] > > Ian. > You correctly point out that neither ccTLDs nor third level (and up) registrations in gTLDs generate transaction-based revenue to ICANN (a fee structure is being discussd for ccTLDs but it does not exist today). Regards, -- - Thierry Moreau CONNOTECH Experts-conseils inc. 9130 Place de Montgolfier Montreal, Qc Canada H2M 2A1 Tel.: (514)385-5691 Fax: (514)385-5900 web site: http://www.connotech.com e-mail: thierry.moreau@connotech.com -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 14:48:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjMKO-0005oz-IG for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:48:48 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02590 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:47:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjMHq-000Or3-Ig for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:46:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjMHo-000Oqs-A2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:46:08 +0000 Received: from STJOHNS-LAPTOP2.nominum.com (shell-ng.nominum.com [81.200.64.181]) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689FB56904 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Mike.StJohns@nominum.com) Message-Id: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205143027.039622b0@nominum.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.10 (Beta) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:46:56 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mike StJohns Subject: Trust point removal issue? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk I'm soliciting input from the list for the following: One of the possibilities in the "timers" trust anchor ID is that all trust anchors at a trust point can be deleted (e.g. by setting the revoke bit on all of the DNSKEY records). One of the chairs asked me to clarify whether or not that resulted in a branch of the tree that was "secure" but unverifiable (since there were no trust anchors/root keys). The other option is that the deletion of all the trust anchors results in the deletion of the trust point with the branch becoming unsecure (not subject to DNSSEC verification). My personal opinion is that deletion of all of the trust anchors should result in deletion of the trust point. This comes from the robustness principle where I'd rather the accidental deletion of the root trust anchors not result in a total inability (by secure resolvers) to resolve any DNS name. Any discussion either way? Mike -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 15:27:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjMw2-0000iP-Jl for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:27:42 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06826 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjMrp-0002Sj-CW for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:23:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjMro-0002SS-Ec for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:23:20 +0000 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (pushme.nist.gov [129.6.16.92]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5KN8bM020647 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:23:08 -0500 Received: from barnacle (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id jB5KM8bU001883 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:22:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Scott Rose" To: Subject: RE: Trust point removal issue? Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:22:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205143027.039622b0@nominum.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > > I'm soliciting input from the list for the following: > > > One of the possibilities in the "timers" trust anchor ID is that all > trust anchors at a trust point can be deleted (e.g. by setting the > revoke bit on all of the DNSKEY records). One of the chairs asked me > to clarify whether or not that resulted in a branch of the tree that > was "secure" but unverifiable (since there were no trust anchors/root > keys). The other option is that the deletion of all the trust > anchors results in the deletion of the trust point with the branch > becoming unsecure (not subject to DNSSEC verification). > I would agree - deletion of all the trust anchors would move the zone from "signed" to "unsecure", just as if any other zone lacking a secure entry point. No different than a self-signed zone. At least I'm assuming that is what you are saying. Scott > My personal opinion is that deletion of all of the trust anchors > should result in deletion of the trust point. This comes from the > robustness principle where I'd rather the accidental deletion of the > root trust anchors not result in a total inability (by secure > resolvers) to resolve any DNS name. > > Any discussion either way? > > Mike > > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 15:44:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjNC2-0004tb-FW for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:44:14 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08564 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:43:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjN9o-00049b-T3 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:41:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.248.199.23] (helo=mx3.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjN9n-00049P-Uz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:41:56 +0000 Received: from staff.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.199.129]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2005 20:41:54 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,218,1131321600"; d="scan'208"; a="2047595:sNHT24956828" Received: (from geoff@localhost) by staff.nominet.org.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) id jB5KfmPV000176; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:41:48 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:41:48 GMT From: Geoffrey Sisson Message-Id: <200512052041.jB5KfmPV000176@staff.nominet.org.uk> To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Edward Lewis wrote: > At 18:02 +0000 12/5/05, Geoffrey Sisson wrote: > > >I hope I've been persuasive that the use of the "modified method" with > >some zones will result in unacceptable inaccuracies, which is why it's > >not the only one presented. > > I wonder if the modified method needs to be documented so thoroughly > then. I mean, if this is meant to be a guide to implementers of > general purpose code, how do they make use of it? Would they > interpret the document as saying "if you support this experimental > specification, you use the modified if the zone is one-label deep > else you have to do the other method?" That's one possibility. Another is that they simply implement the absolute method alone. The modified method is an optimisation aimed principally at "delegation only" zones with no non-terminals, such as those typically managed by TLD registries. (This is described in Section 1.2 of the draft.) Thus the modified method might be employed only in specialised implementations for this specific use. Geoff -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 15:53:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjNKt-00076N-VX for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:53:24 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09588 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:52:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjNJ8-00056S-CU for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:51:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjNJ7-00056E-Ej for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:51:33 +0000 Received: from STJOHNS-LAPTOP2.nominum.com (shell-ng.nominum.com [81.200.64.181]) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539FB56898; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 12:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Mike.StJohns@nominum.com) Message-Id: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205155157.03a1ea60@nominum.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.10 (Beta) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:52:21 -0500 To: "Scott Rose" , From: Mike StJohns Subject: RE: Trust point removal issue? In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205143027.039622b0@nominum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 03:22 PM 12/5/2005, Scott Rose wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > > > > I'm soliciting input from the list for the following: > > > > > > One of the possibilities in the "timers" trust anchor ID is that all > > trust anchors at a trust point can be deleted (e.g. by setting the > > revoke bit on all of the DNSKEY records). One of the chairs asked me > > to clarify whether or not that resulted in a branch of the tree that > > was "secure" but unverifiable (since there were no trust anchors/root > > keys). The other option is that the deletion of all the trust > > anchors results in the deletion of the trust point with the branch > > becoming unsecure (not subject to DNSSEC verification). > > > >I would agree - deletion of all the trust anchors would move the zone from >"signed" to "unsecure", just as if any other zone lacking a secure entry >point. No different than a self-signed zone. > >At least I'm assuming that is what you are saying. >Scott That's it exactly. > > My personal opinion is that deletion of all of the trust anchors > > should result in deletion of the trust point. This comes from the > > robustness principle where I'd rather the accidental deletion of the > > root trust anchors not result in a total inability (by secure > > resolvers) to resolve any DNS name. > > > > Any discussion either way? > > > > Mike > > > > > > -- > > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > > archive: > > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 05 16:07:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjNYD-0002Ig-RR for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:07:11 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11147 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:06:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjNW8-0006Uv-CB for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:05:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjNW5-0006Ug-Pl for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:04:57 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDC7E6057 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:04:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB5L4Xc0018053; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 08:04:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512052104.jB5L4Xc0018053@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Geoffrey Sisson Cc: Edward Lewis , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, iesg@ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Minimally Covering NSEC Records and DNSSEC On-line Signing' to Proposed Standard In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:13:31 GMT." <200512051513.jB5FDVpY029710@staff.nominet.org.uk> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 08:04:33 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > Edward Lewis wrotes: > > > At 10:53 -0500 11/22/05, The IESG wrote: > > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s-01.txt > > > > # This document describes two methods: > > # > > # 1. An ``absolute method'', which returns the immediate predecessor > > # or successor of a domain name such that no valid DNS name could > > # exist between that DNS name and the predecessor or successor. > > # > > # 2. A ``modified method'', which returns a predecessor and successor > > # which are more economical in size and computation. This method > > # is restricted to use with zones consisting exclusively of owner > > # names that contain no more than one label more than the owner > > # name of the apex, where the longest possible owner name (i.e. one > > # with a maximum length left-most label) would not exceed the > > # maximum DNS name length. This is, however, the type of zone for > > # which the technique of online signing is most likely to be used. > > > > I have two comments to make on this. > > > > One is that I think it's unwise to design a standard part of the > > protocol based on the data content of the zone. I'm referring to the > > sentiment in the last sentence of the quoted section. This is not a > > concrete comment, just a design guideline, and it is less important > > than my next comment. > > Note that -ietf-dnsext-dns-name-p-s has been requested for publication > as Experimental, so it's not part of the protocol. The described > methods are provided as an aid to implementors and are not normative. > > > Keeping in mind that we discourage (or should, I recall talking about > > this) caches from being used to speak authoritatively about data and > > the behavior of negative caches, does it really matter if the NSEC > > contents are "true?" Especially when what is "true" can change with > > dynamic update. > > > > My point here is, perhaps the modified method is all that is needed, > > regardless of the kind of data in the zone. Can we get away with one > > approximately good method instead of having to define two exacting > > methods? Can't we simplify this? > > The "modified method" would be quite broken for some types of zones, > e.g. ones with lots of deeply-nested empty non-terminals. For example: > > $ORIGIN 5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. > > 1.1.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR > > 9.9.2.2.3.3 IN NAPTR > > . . . > > When using the modified method, a query with a QNAME of > 4.4.2.2.3.3.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. would produce this response: > > 2\255{62}.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. IN NSEC 3\000.5.6.8.1.4.4.e164.arpa. ... > > This would potentially deny the existence of quite a few existing DNS > names, substantially increasing it's utility for replay attacks. > > Geoff > It's also a waste of time using it on such a zone as it is easy to reconstruct the contents even using whitelies as it has too much structure. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 05:56:31 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjaUp-00025E-I8 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:56:31 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09287 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 05:55:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjaPy-0009yT-7b for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:51:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjaPw-0009y5-HV for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:51:28 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB6AovY8020352; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:50:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@nlnetlabs.nl) In-Reply-To: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-38-940232481" Message-Id: Cc: Olafur Gudmundson , mip6@ietf.org, Namedroppers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Subject: Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:50:54 +0100 To: "Alper Yegin" X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-38-940232481 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Alper, I have CC-ed namedroppers on my reply. There is quite some =20 collective history there. My "no-hats" reply is below, I am sure there are colleagues that will =20= correct me when I am wrong. --Olaf On Dec 5, 2005, at 23:22 , Alper Yegin wrote: > Dear DNSEXT WG chairs, > > > > As part of the Mobile IPv6 Bootstrapping solution (*), the MIP6 WG =20 > is discussing =93IP address ownership=94 issue around the use of = RFC2136. > > > > When an IP address is dynamically assigned to a mobile node, there =20 > needs to be a dynamic update to the DNS using RFC2136. > > > > We=92d like to ask your and DNS community=92s opinion on one thing =20 > though: IP address ownership issue. > > > > Isn=92t a client registering some other node=92s IP address as its own = =20 > via RFC2136 an issue? RFC2136 does not seem to care about this =93IP =20= > address ownership=94 issue. Was this ever considered? Is there any =20 > new work/discussions on this matter? > > > > Regards, > > > > Alper > > > > (*) > > http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-03.txt > > http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-=20 > split-01.txt > > First an aside, "IP-ownership" is tricky terminology. The DHCP =20 community uses the term "lease" which, IMHO, better reflects that an =20 IP assignment is not for infinity. In general the DNS allows maintenance of certain zones to be =20 delegated for technical managerial responsibility (which name servers =20= serve the zone, reflected in the NS RR set) as well as the =20 responsibility for the zones content (reflected through the SOA RR). The "content manager" is responsible for the content of the zone and =20 will therefore need to grant certain parties the authority to update =20 the (reverse) DNS. RFC2136 provides a hook for a client that has been granted authority =20 to update content to actually add, delete and modify using the DNS =20 protocol. RFC2136 uses "Primary Master" to describe which of the name =20= servers can be used for content management. (reflected to the MNAME =20 in the SOA). The authentication mechanisms used in this context are =20 TSIG and SIG0 but the authorization is still a local policy, managed =20 outside protocol. For one popular implementation the authorization is =20= done through configuration files. It is completely local policy to which client this authority granted. So to answer the question: > Isn=92t a client registering some other node=92s IP address as its own = =20 > via RFC2136 an issue? RFC2136 does not seem to care about this =93IP =20= > address ownership=94 issue. Was this ever considered? Indeed, RFC2136 is completely ambivalent about the zone content and =20 assumes that the authorization of who is allowed to update a certain =20 zone is done "elsewhere". Skimming the MIP6 draft I see a lot of parties involved; I have not =20 read the drafts in enough detail to give sound input. Let me know if =20 that is needed at this time. --Olaf ----------------------------------------------------------- Olaf M. Kolkman NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --Apple-Mail-38-940232481 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: This message is locally signed. iD8DBQFDlW0TtN/ca3YJIocRAvoKAKCLvkoRrHAjaaHq/maKTdN+q9+mdgCeNf34 p7/IunV1/QEVFGBXtFixLQM= =8SRo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-38-940232481-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From trazeey@anyhentai.com Tue Dec 06 06:47:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjbIU-00086o-08 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 06:47:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15728 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 06:46:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [84.22.151.53] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ejbdx-0006Sy-Cx for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 07:10:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5fa59$685ebe00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jalen Brown" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:47:28 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FA59.685EBE00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FA59.685EBE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FA59.685EBE00-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 07:40:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejc7f-0007HZ-12 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 07:40:43 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA21839 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 07:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejc4P-000K17-Hc for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:37:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [203.174.79.139] (helo=zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejc4M-000K0t-Oj for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:37:19 +0000 Received: from zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jB6CbEU4000150; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:37:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from zex001-0m9005.jp.ykgw.net (zex001-0m9005.jp.ykgw.net [10.0.11.15]) by zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jB6CbD8H000140; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:37:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from [10.0.69.41] ([10.0.69.41]) by zex001-0m9005.jp.ykgw.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:37:08 +0900 Message-ID: <439585F5.8030403@jp.yokogawa.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:37:09 +0900 From: Nobumichi Ozoe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: ja, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org CC: dnstest@tahi.org Subject: Release-0.2 TAHI DNC client conformance test tool Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2005 12:37:08.0835 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5DDDB30:01C5FA61] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, The TAHI project has released DNS client conformance test tool version 0.2. Please see the following URL. http://www.tahi.org/dns/ If you are interested in this test tool, Please subscribe to the following Mailing list. dnstest@tahi.org And any comments for test tool and specification are welcomed. Best regards, FYI, 8th IPv6 Interoperability Test Event will be held at Nippon Convention Center (Makuhari Messe), Chiba, Japan January 23 - January 27, 2006 http://www.tahi.org/inop/8thinterop.html DNS is also included as test item. -- Nobumichi Ozoe IPv6 Business Network & Software Development Dept. Yokogawa Electric Corporation E-mail: Nobumichi.Ozoe@jp.yokogawa.com URL: http://www.yokogawa.com/ -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 10:13:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjeVm-0002rM-6S for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:13:46 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11329 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:12:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjeRL-000AYY-Jz for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:09:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjeRK-000AY2-Of for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:09:10 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7AED11425; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:09:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: "Olaf M. Kolkman" cc: "Alper Yegin" , Olafur Gudmundson , mip6@ietf.org, Namedroppers Subject: Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:50:54 +0100." References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:09:07 +0000 Message-Id: <20051206150907.C7AED11425@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk i have long thought that RFC 2136 ought to have recommended that implementors support a "self" ACL, such that for some zones (likely, those full of PTR's) could be set up so that the ability to do a three-way TCP handshake using a given IP (or IP6) address would grant create/delete access to some set of RR types (PTR, NAPTR, TXT, etc) at the names corresponding to the inverse address node (so, for 192.5.5.241, that's 241.5.5.192.in-addr.arpa). RFC 2317 complicates this goal considerably. without a solution that allows for pattern matching with arbitrary intermediary zone names, a "self" ACL is not useful. if your parent zone delegates using a $GENERATE CNAME, then you have to have a way to express to your "self" ACL logic which octets/nibbles of the address are to be built up out of labels that might include _ or - or / or \. (literal period) or any of the other things RFC 2317 users might use. if someone wants to take this on, i'd be grateful and i suspect that the MIP6 WG and other WG's would also be grateful. microsoft offered GSS-TSIG as their solution to "too many nodes with update permission to be able to distribute TSIG keys to all of them", but GSS-TSIG is a big mouthful of code and RTT for something as trivial and frequent as a mobile-IP device, which could be "thin", crossing a cell boundary. i apologize for not encoding what i knew about this problem space as a "NOTE" or "CAVEAT" in RFC 2136. on the plus side, a new specification on this topic would not invalidate any part of RFC 2136. something is currently missing, but nothing is currently wrong. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From spiderman_peterparker@artnetwalk.com Tue Dec 06 11:33:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjflK-0004Vc-7B for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:33:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20889 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:33:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from necsdsl.fix.netvision.net.il ([212.143.119.234] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ejg6n-0008PZ-6E for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:56:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5fa81$4aa54f00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Casey Clark" To: Subject: Software At Low Pr1ce Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:34:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FA81.4AA54F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FA81.4AA54F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FA81.4AA54F00-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 11:50:36 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejg1U-00010D-Au for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:50:36 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22650 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:49:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjfyO-000Jsk-FY for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:47:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjfyN-000JsX-Dr for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:47:23 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6GlDbR029540; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:47:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20051206113125.0400ae58@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:47:15 -0500 To: Mike StJohns , "Scott Rose" , From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= Subject: RE: Trust point removal issue? In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205155157.03a1ea60@nominum.com> References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205143027.039622b0@nominum.com> <7.0.0.10.2.20051205155157.03a1ea60@nominum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 15:52 05/12/2005, Mike StJohns wrote: >At 03:22 PM 12/5/2005, Scott Rose wrote: >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org >> > >> > I'm soliciting input from the list for the following: >> > >> > >> > One of the possibilities in the "timers" trust anchor ID is that all >> > trust anchors at a trust point can be deleted (e.g. by setting the >> > revoke bit on all of the DNSKEY records). One of the chairs asked me >> > to clarify whether or not that resulted in a branch of the tree that >> > was "secure" but unverifiable (since there were no trust anchors/root >> > keys). The other option is that the deletion of all the trust >> > anchors results in the deletion of the trust point with the branch >> > becoming unsecure (not subject to DNSSEC verification). >> > >> >>I would agree - deletion of all the trust anchors would move the zone from >>"signed" to "unsecure", just as if any other zone lacking a secure entry >>point. No different than a self-signed zone. >> >>At least I'm assuming that is what you are saying. >>Scott > >That's it exactly. As far as I can tell there are at least two reasons why a zone may want to have its trust anchors removed. 1. As you say to for the zone to go insecure, i.e. turn of DNSSEC. 2. When parent signs DS and child zone wants the DS records used, and intents to stop signing DNSKEY set including old KSK with the revoke bit set. In this case the zone only wants to use the out-of-band parent-child DS exchange to change TA/KSK for the zone. Without this one zones that start out using TA update nay have to support both DS and TA-update forever possibly leading to inconsistencies and errors. As for other uses, I'm not sure there are none but can not rule them out at this point, as I only recently realized the need for the second one in the transition to DS. Anyone have other usage models? Olafur -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 12:55:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejh1w-0000lv-6W for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:55:08 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01026 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:54:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejgz2-0000Ml-22 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:52:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejgz1-0000Ma-Ev for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:52:07 +0000 Received: from STJOHNS-LAPTOP2.nominum.com (shell-ng.nominum.com [81.200.64.181]) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E75568A5; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Mike.StJohns@nominum.com) Message-Id: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206123449.039dd830@nominum.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.10 (Beta) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:52:32 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= , "Scott Rose" , From: Mike StJohns Subject: RE: Trust point removal issue? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051206113125.0400ae58@ogud.com> References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051205143027.039622b0@nominum.com> <7.0.0.10.2.20051205155157.03a1ea60@nominum.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20051206113125.0400ae58@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 11:47 AM 12/6/2005, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson wrote: >At 15:52 05/12/2005, Mike StJohns wrote: > >As far as I can tell there are at least two reasons why a zone may want to >have its trust anchors removed. >1. As you say to for the zone to go insecure, i.e. turn of DNSSEC. > >2. When parent signs DS and child zone wants the DS records used, and= intents > to stop signing DNSKEY set including old KSK with the revoke bit set. > In this case the zone only wants to use the out-of-band parent-child > DS exchange to change TA/KSK for the zone. Without this one zones that > start out using TA update nay have to=20 > support both DS and TA-update forever > possibly leading to inconsistencies and errors. For this one, I don't think it matters. Validly=20 signed data below a trust point is valid if=20 either the DNSKEY RRSet at the trust point is=20 signed by a trust anchor OR the DNSKEY RRSet is=20 signed by a DNSKEY that's named in a validly=20 signed DS RRSet in the parent zone that can=20 itself be signature chained back to a valid trust=20 anchor. So you don't actually have to delete the=20 trust point to transition from trust point to DS. Perhaps this needs to be specified more clearly=20 in the trust anchor management docs? Mike >As for other uses, I'm not sure there are none but can not rule them out at >this point, as I only recently realized the need for the second one in the >transition to DS. > >Anyone have other usage models? > > Olafur -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 13:05:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjhBu-0005Kt-Va for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:05:27 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01987 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejh9w-0001Zn-Q1 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:03:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejh9w-0001Zc-5d for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:03:24 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id AE76211D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:03:22 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt Organization: Sparta Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:03:22 -0800 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk I published the latest copy of the -ds draft a week ago or so (the announcement was sent to this list as well). I'm now interested if there are any outstanding issues with the draft. In particular, please review sections 3 and 4 which are the sections that changed the most based on feedback from the working group. In order for this document to go forward, it needs do be reviewed by at least 5 people (per recent discussion at the last IETF and on the list). The WG chairs would like acks at least from 5 people that have read the draft. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 13:34:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjheK-0001LA-J3 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:34:50 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05819 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:33:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejhc3-0004Sj-6q for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:32:27 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejhc2-0004SV-9o for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:32:26 +0000 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (pushme.nist.gov [129.6.16.92]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6IWMJL021275 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:32:22 -0500 Received: from barnacle (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id jB6IVabU008499 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:31:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Scott Rose" To: Subject: RE: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:31:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One minor typo: Section 3, second para: "This behavior SHOULD by the default." /by/be/ I've read this version, and I don't have any objections about going forward with this version. Sorry about not stating earlier. Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Wes Hardaker > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:03 PM > To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt > > > > I published the latest copy of the -ds draft a week ago or so (the > announcement was sent to this list as well). I'm now interested if > there are any outstanding issues with the draft. In particular, > please review sections 3 and 4 which are the sections that changed the > most based on feedback from the working group. > > In order for this document to go forward, it needs do be reviewed by > at least 5 people (per recent discussion at the last IETF and on the > list). The WG chairs would like acks at least from 5 people that have > read the draft. > -- > Wes Hardaker > Sparta, Inc. > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 13:44:56 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejho8-0005jo-OD for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:44:56 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07327 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:44:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjhjJ-00059u-G2 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:39:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [81.200.64.181] (helo=shell-ng.nominum.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjhjJ-00059f-11 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:39:57 +0000 Received: from STJOHNS-LAPTOP2.nominum.com (shell-ng.nominum.com [81.200.64.181]) by shell-ng.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D155689E; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Mike.StJohns@nominum.com) Message-Id: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.10 (Beta) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:40:46 -0500 To: Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mike StJohns Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Hi Wes - I've reviewed the document and I'm fine with it going forward as is now especially given the security issues with SHA1. BUT (and feel free to send me off to the corner if this was discussed prior), wouldn't it have made sense to either do the other two SHA standards (SHA384 and SHA512) at the same time in the same document, or either as different algorithm types or having the subtypes encoded in the digest field? Two nits - [SHA256] should probably just be [SHA] as it covers 1, 256, 384 and 512. - Should SHA1 be deprecated with the publication of this document? At 01:03 PM 12/6/2005, Wes Hardaker wrote: >I published the latest copy of the -ds draft a week ago or so (the >announcement was sent to this list as well). I'm now interested if >there are any outstanding issues with the draft. In particular, >please review sections 3 and 4 which are the sections that changed the >most based on feedback from the working group. > >In order for this document to go forward, it needs do be reviewed by >at least 5 people (per recent discussion at the last IETF and on the >list). The WG chairs would like acks at least from 5 people that have >read the draft. >-- >Wes Hardaker >Sparta, Inc. > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 13:49:36 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejhse-0006d8-71 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:49:36 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07701 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjhpW-0005sF-0g for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:46:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjhpU-0005rz-Ni for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:46:21 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6Ik89Y031252; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:46:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:46:30 -0500 To: Wes Hardaker From: Edward Lewis Subject: one review of the DS thingy by WestWes Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Quoting http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt: #1. Introduction # # The DNSSEC [RFC4033] [RFC4034] [RFC4035] DS RR is published in parent # zones to distribute a cryptographic digest of a child's Key Signing # Key (KSK) DNSKEY RR. This DS RR is signed using the parent zone's # private half of it's DNSKEY and the signature is published in a RRSIG # record. The DS RRset is signed by at least one of the parent zone's private zone data signing keys for each algorithm in use by the parent. Each signature is published in an RRSIG resource record, owned by the same domain as the DS RRset and with a type covered of DS. (Just cleaning up the "private half" colloquialism. Personally, I hate trying to sign with half of a key. ;)) #2. Implementing the SHA-256 algorithm for DS record support # # This document specifies that the digest type code [XXX: To be # assigned by IANA; likely 2] is to be assigned to SHA-256 [SHA256] for Good job - that request is in the IANA considerations section. # use within DS records. The results of the digest algorithm MUST NOT # be truncated and the entire 32 byte digest result is to be published # in the DS record. # ... #2.2. DS Record with SHA-256 Wire Format # # The resulting packet format for the resulting DS record will be [XXX: # IANA assignment should replace the 2 below]: I would not use "packet format" but rather something like "on-the-wire" (okay, laugh about my use of an anachronism after telling you I didn't like a colloquialism). The reason I'm saying this is that the "packet" would also have the DNS header, yadda, yadda, yadda. I just don't want anyone to think that this is a new DNS packet format. # # 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 # 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ # | Key Tag | Algorithm | DigestType=2 | # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ # / / # / Digest (length for SHA-256 is 32 bytes) / # / / # +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-| # #2.3. Example DS Record Using SHA-256 # # The following is an example DSKEY and matching DS record. This s/DSKEY/DNSKEY/ ... # #3. Implementation Requirements # # Implementations MUST support the use of the SHA-256 algorithm in DS # RRs. This is always a sticky point. It's up to an implementation to decide if it will support RFC wxyz. E.g., if I were to be writing a test plan for code, I really need to know what it means for code to accurately implement an RFC. Whether the RFC is pertinent is part of an operations "profile" of a standard. I know that this is a continuing rat-hole discussion in the IETF so I don't expect a resolution, but I just want to note that the above MUST is one that won't translate will to a test plan. # Validator implementations MUST be able to prefer DS records # containing SHA-256 digests over those containing SHA-1 digests. This # behavior SHOULD by the default. Validator implementations MAY s/by/be/ # provide configuration settings that allow network operators to # specify preference policy when validating multiple DS records # containing different digest types. Unlike the earlier comment (of substance), these "operational" requirements makes sense in developing a test plan. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 13:55:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejhya-0001gv-GX for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:55:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08244 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejhw8-0006ZN-RR for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:53:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejhw6-0006Z8-AM for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:53:10 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E070F11425; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:53:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: "James Kempf" cc: "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:36:12 PST." <040b01c5fa8b$8d09e040$606015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> <20051206150907.C7AED11425@sa.vix.com> <040b01c5fa8b$8d09e040$606015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:53:09 +0000 Message-Id: <20051206185309.E070F11425@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk james, # The three way handshake you talk about is what the MIP6 community calls # "return routablility"; that is, a proof that a node claiming to be at a # particular IP address is, indeed, at that address. well, i'd hate to call it a "proof". it's a strong hint. confidence level is higher if 3-way TCP completes than if a simple UDP arrives. but it's not 100% confidence and i'd expect the "Security Considerations" to word this very carefully. 3-way TCP is the .rhosts of this decade -- trivially useful but not strong enough for serious security work. # As you point out, RFC 2136 seems to be lacking this proof, which makes it # difficult to use for end node updating of FQDNs, since an end node that # sends an authenticatable (via TSIG or SIG0, as pointed out by Olafur) # message updating a DNS record may, in fact, be attempting to propagate a # redirection attack if the address actually belongs to another node. i'd say that key compromise is out of scope for RFC 2136 or any technology based on it. a simple caveat, "by the way, if the key is compromised, then all bets are off," is all anyone could expect. # If there is some interest in working on this in the DNS community, I think # people in the MIP6 group would be happy to work together to provide # requirements and review, since we really need this in order to allow end # node updating of dynamically allocated home addresses. I think the DHC WG # could also benefit, since DHCP allocated addresses have a similar security # issue (though they might not have considered it yet). in an old DDNS-DHC Interaction draft, yakov asserted that a dhcp server was very likely to be under the same security regime as the ddns server, and that a DHCP protocol option whereby a dhcp client asked the dhcp server to please update the PTR, would be likely to find traction in most cases. i still agree with that reasoning, but for reasons i wasn't party to, it was never finished. the need for this as an ietf standard is itself questionable, since it's not a case where interoperability can be tested. either a ddns server has a "self" ACL and permits a ddns client to update RRsets pertaining to its "in-addr", or it won't. however, i think the feature is missing, and that even if various implementors all implement this differently -- which wouldn't be a problem since there are no interoperability issues afoot -- the requirements should be written down and some proposed solutions to the "RFC 2317 problem" offered. i am not volunteering to write or edit, but i will act as a reviewer if this gets traction, and ISC would very likely implement the result in BIND9. paul -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 14:37:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejicb-0001Xh-F8 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:37:05 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12652 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjiZq-000Aka-Pg for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:34:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, INFO_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjiZq-000Ajp-6q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:34:14 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EjiZp-0003gu-6y for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:34:13 -0500 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id BB72113744; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:34:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:34:02 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt Message-ID: <20051206193402.GE25006@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 10:03:22AM -0800, Wes Hardaker wrote: > In order for this document to go forward, it needs do be reviewed by > at least 5 people (per recent discussion at the last IETF and on the > list). The WG chairs would like acks at least from 5 people that have > read the draft. I have read this draft, and I'm in favour of it going forward. One nit I noted (that I haven't seen noted by anyone else yet), in section 1: private half of it's DNSKEY and the signature is published in a RRSIG s/it's/its A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 14:37:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejicw-0001ZM-34 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:37:26 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12680 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:36:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjibG-000AuL-6D for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:35:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjibF-000Au6-F4 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:35:41 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6JZYSu031506 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:35:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:35:42 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT co-chair Subject: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation (Was: Re: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt) In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 13:40 06/12/2005, Mike StJohns wrote: >BUT (and feel free to send me off to the corner if this was >discussed prior), wouldn't it have made sense to either do the other >two SHA standards (SHA384 and SHA512) at the same time in the same >document, or either as different algorithm types or having the >subtypes encoded in the digest field? > >Two nits > - [SHA256] should probably just be [SHA] as it covers 1, 256, 384 and 512. > - Should SHA1 be deprecated with the publication of this document? Mike, This proposal is made based on guidance from our Security AD, Russ Housley. Specify SHA256 now and revisit the issue once NIST has issued guidance on use of SHA-xxx or defined a new standard digest algorithm. That effort is expected to take about 4 years. Any guidance from WG members saying they prefer stronger digest than SHA256, speak up now. As for deprecating SHA1 right now this is something the editor is looking for guidance on what the document should say. Olafur -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From KathrynBarlow@kansasworks.com Tue Dec 06 14:38:47 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjieF-0001kN-Lz for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:38:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12757; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:37:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ejizm-0006hw-AA; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:01:03 -0500 Received: from [221.1.50.164] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Ejie2-0004Vg-66; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:38:35 -0500 Received: from ivj@localhost by dyWF.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:14:54 -0100 Message-ID: <9s4xpbIN5BzX16kdz5oFKWBm@lighthunter.com> From: "Jay Blackman" Reply-To: "Jay Blackman" To: droyer@ietf.org Subject: XP Pro Special Deals today 0nly Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:13:54 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: KathrynBarlow@kansasworks.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--4271728522156684731" X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: f60fbf3dbcaca652b6d10036f0630412 3mh ----4271728522156684731 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable d
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----4271728522156684731-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 14:43:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjiiR-0002az-5a for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:43:07 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13435 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:42:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejign-000BfA-8l for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:41:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejigm-000Bev-MI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:41:24 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 5B73611D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT co-chair Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:41:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> (ogud@ogud.com's message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:35:42 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:35:42 -0500, ogud@ogud.com (Olafur Gudmundsson) said: Olafur> As for deprecating SHA1 right now this is something the editor Olafur> is looking for guidance on what the document should say. Specifically, there was a discussion surrounding this a while back and I don't think consensus was reached about whether it should be deprecated by this document now. If anything, I think it was leaning toward it being beyond scope of this document. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 14:44:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjijN-0003ye-Fj for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:44:05 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13539 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:43:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejihj-000BoW-E4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:42:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,INFO_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejihi-000BoK-Vr for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:42:23 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 313F311D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt Organization: Sparta References: <20051206193402.GE25006@dba3> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:42:20 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20051206193402.GE25006@dba3> (Andrew Sullivan's message of "Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:34:02 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:34:02 -0500, Andrew Sullivan said: Andrew> One nit I noted (that I haven't seen noted by anyone else yet), in Andrew> section 1: Andrew> private half of it's DNSKEY and the signature is published in a RRSIG Andrew> s/it's/its Thanks. Fixed. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 14:48:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejinx-0006TL-HE for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:48:49 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14072 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:47:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjimE-000CTt-K5 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:47:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjimD-000CRz-LI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:47:02 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6JkqUZ031621; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:46:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:47:13 -0500 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur_Gu=F0mundsson_=2FDNSEXT__co=2Dchair?= From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation (Was: Re: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt) Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 14:35 -0500 12/6/05, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT co-chair wrote: >As for deprecating SHA1 right now this is something the editor >is looking for guidance on what the document should say. I'd say - lay out the problem with SHA-1 and let=20 operators decide if they still want to code bases=20 that implement it. Don't make operational=20 "decisions" in a protocol document. Let's say RFC 10234 defines some approach using=20 SHA-1. RFC 10321 defines the same approach=20 saying SHA-256 is safer, warning that SHA-1 is a=20 bad idea. I expect to read on the box my software come in=20 to say "compliant with RFC 10234", "compliant=20 with RFC 10234 and RFC 10321", "compliant with=20 RFC 10321" or "doesn't know anything about SHA."=20 That's how I see the RFCs being useful when=20 documenting these issues. Is SHA-1 better than no understandable DS=20 records? (That's the question an operator of a=20 resolver needs to ask themself.) -- -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 14:50:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejip9-0007CJ-3Q for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:50:03 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14157 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejinm-000ChM-HZ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:48:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejinm-000Ch7-2y for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:48:38 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id CE81C11D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:48:35 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Edward Lewis Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: one review of the DS thingy by WestWes Organization: Sparta References: Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:48:35 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Edward Lewis's message of "Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:46:30 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:46:30 -0500, Edward Lewis said: Ed, thanks for the review... Edward> The DS RRset is signed by at least one of the parent zone's private Edward> zone data signing keys for each algorithm in use by the parent. Each Edward> signature is published in an RRSIG resource record, owned by the same Edward> domain as the DS RRset and with a type covered of DS. So changed. Edward> # The resulting packet format for the resulting DS record Edward> # will be [XXX: IANA assignment should replace the 2 below]: Edward> I would not use "packet format" but rather something like Edward> "on-the-wire" Ok. Edward> # The following is an example DSKEY and matching DS record. This Edward> s/DSKEY/DNSKEY/ gack! Edward> # Implementations MUST support the use of the SHA-256 algorithm in DS Edward> # RRs. Edward> This is always a sticky point. It's up to an implementation Edward> to decide if it will support RFC wxyz. I'm not sure what your complaint is here. Are you saying that it shouldn't be included or that it should be changed to "Implementations *that support this specification* MUST ...". Edward> # behavior SHOULD by the default. Validator implementations MAY Edward> s/by/be/ Thanks (it was actually pointed privately just after publication so was already locally fixed). -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 15:26:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjjOd-00061S-2n for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:26:43 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18049 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:25:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjjLn-000GZv-PT for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:23:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, INFO_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjjLn-000GZj-0R for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:23:47 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EjjLm-0005bk-4Q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:23:46 -0500 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 9F59C13744; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:23:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:23:38 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation (Was: Re: Review of draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-01.txt) Message-ID: <20051206202338.GK25006@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan Mail-Followup-To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 02:47:13PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > Is SHA-1 better than no understandable DS > records? (That's the question an operator of a > resolver needs to ask themself.) That was exactly my worry when I read the previous draft, and I think this one has enough wiggle room in it to allow the operator to make the right choice (yet still suggests really strongly that SHA-1 is on the whole probably better to leave behind). A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 16:27:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjkL6-00062q-Dh for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:27:08 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24397 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:26:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjkHx-000NKt-NN for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:23:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,INFO_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjkHx-000NKg-11 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:23:53 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 522E011D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:23:50 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206131847.03b089c0@nominum.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20051206142022.02df54e0@ogud.com> <20051206202338.GK25006@dba3> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:23:50 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20051206202338.GK25006@dba3> (Andrew Sullivan's message of "Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:23:38 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:23:38 -0500, Andrew Sullivan said: >> Is SHA-1 better than no understandable DS >> records? (That's the question an operator of a >> resolver needs to ask themself.) Andrew> That was exactly my worry when I read the previous draft, and Andrew> I think this one has enough wiggle room in it to allow the Andrew> operator to make the right choice (yet still suggests really Andrew> strongly that SHA-1 is on the whole probably better to leave Andrew> behind). Which was precisely the goal of the current text: make sure operators can select a secure solution but not mandate that they do so. Capability is required, forced policy is not. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 16:47:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejkev-0005bu-Mm for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:47:37 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26661 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjkcL-000PcW-5F for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:44:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjkcI-000Pc6-H9 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:44:54 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1757E6047 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:44:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6LipA7063462 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512062144.jB6LipA7063462@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:23:50 -0800." Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk For what it is worth, in implementing this draft, I found the word "prefer" to be very poorly defined. So much so the code needed to be commented to make the intent clear. At this stage I have no intention of implementing the MAY. Apart from that and the already mentioned typo it was fine. Mark @@ -1678,6 +1678,7 @@ dns_rdata_rrsig_t sig; dst_key_t *dstkey; isc_boolean_t supported_algorithm; + isc_uint8_t digest_type; /* * Caller must be holding the validator lock. @@ -1840,6 +1841,25 @@ supported_algorithm = ISC_FALSE; + /* + * If DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA256 is present we are required to prefer + * it over DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA1. This in practice means that we + * need to ignore DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA1 if a DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA256 + * is present. + */ + digest_type = DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA1; + for (result = dns_rdataset_first(val->dsset); + result == ISC_R_SUCCESS; + result = dns_rdataset_next(val->dsset)) { + dns_rdata_reset(&dsrdata); + dns_rdataset_current(val->dsset, &dsrdata); + dns_rdata_tostruct(&dsrdata, &ds, NULL); + if (ds.digest_type == DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA256) { + digest_type = DNS_DSDIGEST_SHA256; + break; + } + } + -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 17:07:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjkyL-0005n7-M3 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:07:41 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28256 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejkw2-000255-He for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:05:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejkvz-00024t-Ug for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:05:16 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A2611425; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 22:05:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: "James Kempf" cc: "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:37:13 PST." <04af01c5faa4$d6d6f780$606015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> <20051206150907.C7AED11425@sa.vix.com> <040b01c5fa8b$8d09e040$606015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20051206185309.E070F11425@sa.vix.com> <04af01c5faa4$d6d6f780$606015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:05:15 +0000 Message-Id: <20051206220515.76A2611425@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk # > i'd say that key compromise is out of scope for RFC 2136 or any technology # > based on it. a simple caveat, "by the way, if the key is compromised, # > then all bets are off," is all anyone could expect. # # Key compromise wasn't what I was talking about. The case is an end node # with a perfectly legitimate key that decides to launch a redirection attack. # The attack could be deliberate, for example, a user with a legitimate # account establishes a security association but launches the attack for some # reason (for example, the victim is an ex-spouse in the middle of a contested # divorce proceeding and the attacker wants to harrass him/her), or it could # be inadvertent, for example, the end node is infected with a virus or # spyware. I think only the latter could be considered a key compromise. i think i got your meaning the second time here. basically you're saying that the "self" ACL, with whatever tricks needed to work with RFC 2317, is still nec'y because otherwise we'll have to protect individual DNS names with unique keys per host, which won't scale. hmmmm. i wonder how microsoft's GSS-TSIG works around this? (possibly by just outlawing RFC 2317 for ancestor zones, or by requiring a certain label syntax rather than leaving it to user choice?) i agree that the security considerations section of any resulting specification ought to have words to the effect that "in no case should an end-node have the ability to update DNS names nearby but not equal to those needed for its own IN-ADDR registrations". # > in an old DDNS-DHC Interaction draft, yakov asserted that a dhcp server # > was very likely to be under the same security regime as the ddns server, # > and that a DHCP protocol option whereby a dhcp client asked the dhcp # > server to please update the PTR, would be likely to find traction in most # > cases. i still agree with that reasoning, but for reasons i wasn't party # > to, it was never finished. # # Well, that is the approach we've recommended in # draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrapping-split-01.txt (i.e. let the home agent do the # update), but we are running into headwind from some WG members who claim # that this "isn't a MIP6 WG problem" and "we should let the DNS community # solve the problem". I suppose we ought to pole the DHC WG and find out if # Yakov's suggestion has become current practice or not. I notice that their # WG draft on DNS update for DHCP assigned addresses # (draft-ietf-dhc-fqdn-option-11.txt) has provisions for both host and server # update. it's a very subtle situation. after a successful DHCP assignment or expiry, two DNS names have to be updated, the "forward" (having A or AAAA RRs), and the "reverse" (having PTR RRs). of course, both can also have other RR types such as TXT for e-mail source security or whatever.) anyway, the "forward" name is the one most dhcp clients are likely to have a TSIG key for (or a GSS-TSIG relationship, or whatever). the "reverse" zone is the one the dhcp *server* is likely to have a TSIG key (or whatever) for. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 17:39:31 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjlT9-0002WJ-EI for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:39:31 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA01575 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:38:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjlQ1-0005SR-H4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:36:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjlQ0-0005S6-JG for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:36:16 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D11EE6057 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 22:36:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6MZH5D098109; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:35:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512062235.jB6MZH5D098109@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Paul Vixie Cc: "James Kempf" , "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:05:15 -0000." <20051206220515.76A2611425@sa.vix.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:35:17 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > # > i'd say that key compromise is out of scope for RFC 2136 or any technology > # > based on it. a simple caveat, "by the way, if the key is compromised, > # > then all bets are off," is all anyone could expect. > # > # Key compromise wasn't what I was talking about. The case is an end node > # with a perfectly legitimate key that decides to launch a redirection attack. > # The attack could be deliberate, for example, a user with a legitimate > # account establishes a security association but launches the attack for some > # reason (for example, the victim is an ex-spouse in the middle of a contested > # divorce proceeding and the attacker wants to harrass him/her), or it could > # be inadvertent, for example, the end node is infected with a virus or > # spyware. I think only the latter could be considered a key compromise. > > i think i got your meaning the second time here. basically you're saying that > the "self" ACL, with whatever tricks needed to work with RFC 2317, is still > nec'y because otherwise we'll have to protect individual DNS names with unique > keys per host, which won't scale. For RFC 2317 style zones I suspect they will need to know the prefix and range by some out of band mechanism and how the non prefix bits map into the owner-name. Off the top of my head this would be how I would implement it for BIND. e.g. allow-update { self 1.2.3.128 1.2.3.200 "${4}.128-200.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa"; }; And the general case for the non RFC 2317 style reverse zone. allow-update { self 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 "${4}.${3}.${2}.${1}.in-addr.arpa"; }; > hmmmm. i wonder how microsoft's GSS-TSIG > works around this? (possibly by just outlawing RFC 2317 for ancestor zones, > or by requiring a certain label syntax rather than leaving it to user choice?) > i agree that the security considerations section of any resulting specification > ought to have words to the effect that "in no case should an end-node have the > ability to update DNS names nearby but not equal to those needed for its own > IN-ADDR registrations". -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 17:51:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejlf2-0000dt-VX for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:51:49 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA02797 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:50:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejlch-0006rR-WE for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:49:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejlch-0006rD-9L for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:49:23 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC93C11425; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 22:49:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Mark Andrews cc: "James Kempf" , "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:35:17 +1100." <200512062235.jB6MZH5D098109@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <200512062235.jB6MZH5D098109@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:49:22 +0000 Message-Id: <20051206224922.BC93C11425@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk # > i think i got your meaning the second time here. basically you're saying # > that the "self" ACL, with whatever tricks needed to work with RFC 2317, is # > still nec'y because otherwise we'll have to protect individual DNS names # > with unique keys per host, which won't scale. # # For RFC 2317 style zones I suspect they will need to know the prefix # and range by some out of band mechanism and how the non prefix bits # map into the owner-name. i'd rather do it by looking at the dns data itself. that is, following the CNAME chain if any, starting from a qname computed based on the transport and ip/ip6 address. what "self" should mean is that if they want to update what the cnames point to, that should be allowed. unfortunately this would require perfect trust in the ancestor zones, and would be totally irrational. # Off the top of my head this would be how I would implement it for # BIND. # # e.g. # allow-update { # self 1.2.3.128 1.2.3.200 "${4}.128-200.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa"; # }; gaaaaaaaaaak. # And the general case for the non RFC 2317 style reverse zone. # # allow-update { # self 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 "${4}.${3}.${2}.${1}.in-addr.arpa"; # }; well, first, i don't think permissions can be given out of band unless we update RFC 2136 to outlaw update forwarding. (which BIND doesn't support, but i suspect other implementations do support, and some people depend on.) this yields a general sense that a thing that looked like $GENERATE would be the right thing. except that it has to be an RR, probably an ACL RR at the apex. (ACL RRs have been proposed several times over the years, and an early version of similar technology was in older versions of BIND.) if i'm right that it should be in-band, then it *is* an interoperability concern and it *must*be* done by IETF rather than by each implementor ad-hoc. and second, BIND's ACL syntax should remain generalized. "self" is something that a zone (either in band or out of band) has to define, and which ACL's can then depend on. so "self" would be a zone-level directive (or in-band zone data, if update forwarding has to be able to work), and then "self" would be a macro that was available inside the allow-update directive. but this is namedroppers; i'd rather discuss on bind-workers or bind-forum the specific BINDisms needed to make something like "self" work inside BIND. on namedroppers we should only discuss implementation-independent issues. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 18:02:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjlpL-0004pI-68 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:02:27 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03928 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejln3-0008Om-DS for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:00:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejln2-0008OU-Ql for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:00:04 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id B2B8011D5D1; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:00:02 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Mark Andrews Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512062144.jB6LipA7063462@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:00:01 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200512062144.jB6LipA7063462@drugs.dv.isc.org> (Mark Andrews's message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100, Mark Andrews said: Mark> For what it is worth, in implementing this draft, I found the Mark> word "prefer" to be very poorly defined. So much so the code Mark> needed to be commented to make the intent clear. How about changing: Validator implementations MUST be able to prefer DS records containing SHA-256 digests over those containing SHA-1 digests. to: Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 digests when a DS RR record exists with a SHA-256 digest and covers the same name. ?? Mark> At this stage I have no intention of implementing the MAY. Such is the beauty or ugliness of a MAY depending on your prospective. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 18:22:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejm93-0004iG-Az for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:22:49 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06182 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejm6x-000Ane-2K for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:20:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejm6w-000AnC-B4 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:20:38 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DBEE604B for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:20:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6NJsqV010490; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:19:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512062319.jB6NJsqV010490@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Paul Vixie Cc: "James Kempf" , "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:49:22 -0000." <20051206224922.BC93C11425@sa.vix.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:19:54 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk While it is true that update forwarding hides the identity of the client. One could concieve a TSIG extention which allows a forwarder to add a TSIG it a unsigned request in which the other data is the address of the client. This would be stripped on return. TSIG errors would be translated to NOTIMP on return. Alternatively a forwarder could return NOTIMP for non-signed requests forcing the client to go directly. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 18:28:01 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjmE5-0007B8-F8 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:28:01 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06598 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:27:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmBt-000Beh-Jl for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:25:45 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmBt-000BeM-2L for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:25:45 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F55E604A for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:25:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6NPfp8010533; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:25:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512062325.jB6NPfp8010533@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Wes Hardaker Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:00:01 -0800." Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:25:41 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100, Mark Andrews said > : > > Mark> For what it is worth, in implementing this draft, I found the > Mark> word "prefer" to be very poorly defined. So much so the code > Mark> needed to be commented to make the intent clear. > > How about changing: > > Validator implementations MUST be able to prefer DS records > containing SHA-256 digests over those containing SHA-1 digests. > > to: > > Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs containing > SHA-1 digests when a DS RR record exists with a SHA-256 digest and > covers the same name. Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. > ?? > > Mark> At this stage I have no intention of implementing the MAY. > > Such is the beauty or ugliness of a MAY depending on your > prospective. > > -- > Wes Hardaker > Sparta, Inc. > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 18:44:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjmUN-00065S-7Y for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:44:51 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08130 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:44:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmRQ-000DnR-3q for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:41:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.44.77.17] (helo=laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmRO-000Dn8-U9 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:41:47 +0000 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id jB6NfV724154; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:41:31 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6NfV1o076502; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:41:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200512062341.jB6NfV1o076502@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Paul Vixie cc: "James Kempf" , "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:53:09 GMT. <20051206185309.E070F11425@sa.vix.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:41:31 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Note you talk about the IP address ownership for updates in the reverse tree when the issue in the MIP6 WG context is about updates in the direct tree, i.e., the address is the RDATA and not the NAME. To come back to IPv6 and dynamic DNS update, DHCPv6 is not commonly used for the address management because the stateless autoconfig (RFC 2462) is far simpler. The problem is without a DHCPv6 server all nodes have to update the reverse tree themselves and they are not authorized to do it. A possible solution is to use CGAs (RFC 3972) which provide a nice proof of ownership on the interface ID (low 64 bits of addresses). IMHO this should be better than to rely on some kind of return routability check. The crypto part (RSA signature) is not a problem for a DNS software already supporting DNSSEC. Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 18:44:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjmUV-000689-L5 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:44:59 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08142 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:44:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmSd-000E0M-9p for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:43:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.44.77.17] (helo=laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmSc-000DzN-Fz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:43:02 +0000 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id jB6Ngs724227; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:42:54 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB6Ngtta076516; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:42:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200512062342.jB6Ngtta076516@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Paul Vixie cc: "James Kempf" , "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Dec 2005 18:53:09 GMT. <20051206185309.E070F11425@sa.vix.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:42:55 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Note you talk about the IP address ownership for updates in the reverse tree when the issue in the MIP6 WG context is about updates in the direct tree, i.e., the address is the RDATA and not the NAME. To come back to IPv6 and dynamic DNS update, DHCPv6 is not commonly used for the address management because the stateless autoconfig (RFC 2462) is far simpler. The problem is without a DHCPv6 server all nodes have to update the reverse tree themselves and they are not authorized to do it. A possible solution is to use CGAs (RFC 3972) which provide a nice proof of ownership on the interface ID (low 64 bits of addresses). IMHO this should be better than to rely on some kind of return routability check. The crypto part (RSA signature) is not a problem for a DNS software already supporting DNSSEC. Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 19:07:36 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjmqO-0007e5-BT for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:07:36 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10420 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:06:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmnP-000GwZ-V5 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:04:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjmnP-000Gw4-4z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:04:31 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92AA311425; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:04:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Francis Dupont cc: "James Kempf" , "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, "Olafur Gudmundson" , "Namedroppers" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:42:55 +0100." <200512062342.jB6Ngtta076516@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> References: <200512062342.jB6Ngtta076516@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:04:30 +0000 Message-Id: <20051207000430.92AA311425@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk # Note you talk about the IP address ownership for updates in the reverse # tree when the issue in the MIP6 WG context is about updates in the # direct tree, i.e., the address is the RDATA and not the NAME. this i did not know. clearly the problem must be broader than i'd thought. # To come back to IPv6 and dynamic DNS update, DHCPv6 is not commonly # used for the address management because the stateless autoconfig # (RFC 2462) is far simpler. there is a growing movement of operators away from EUI64 addressing. i spoke on this topic at a recent NAV6TF meeting. # A possible solution is to use CGAs (RFC 3972) which provide a nice proof of # ownership on the interface ID (low 64 bits of addresses). IMHO this should # be better than to rely on some kind of return routability check. The crypto # part (RSA signature) is not a problem for a DNS software already supporting # DNSSEC. if heavy weight protocols are available and appropriate for cell boundary crossings, then GSS-TSIG will probably serve, and all of this is moot anyway. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 19:31:32 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjnDX-0000zx-W0 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:31:32 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12803 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 19:30:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjnBm-000KD4-GU for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:29:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [192.44.77.17] (helo=laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjnBl-000KCq-Kc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:29:42 +0000 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id jB70TX727255; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 01:29:33 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB70TYcD076729; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 01:29:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200512070029.jB70TYcD076729@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Vijay Devarapalli cc: "Olaf M. Kolkman" , mip6@ietf.org, Olafur Gudmundson , Namedroppers Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:14:22 PST. <4395E30E.5050804@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:29:34 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk In your previous mail you wrote: I can briefly describe whats in the draft. what we have done so far is to let the home agent do the update (both direct and reverse tree) => I disagree: the draft says "the" DNS entry and it is clearly only the direct tree. instead of the mobile node. this assumes the home agent is more trusted than the mobile node. the home agent knows both the FQDN of the mobile node (through IKEv2 authentication) and the home address of the mobile node (since it is involved in the home address bootstrapping). => this is not true for two reasons: - IKEv2 authentication gives the FQDN only in some cases, not in all cases - the IKEv2 code and the mobility code are 2 different entities, the DNS update in the draft is performed by the mobility code using the FQDN given by the mobile node in a mobility option. the mobile node is still in control because the home agent does not do the update until the mobile node indicates this in the binding update. => this mobility option has only a do-undo flag. The DHC DDNS work shows that far more are needed. we just got around addressing the address ownership problem. :) => for a reason I can't understand some persons in the MIP6 WG are convinced the security of dynamic DNS updates relies on the protection of the RDATA more than on the protection of the NAME... I give up, I have more interesting things to do, I'll only bash the draft if it is not fixed before the IETF last call. Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 20:12:36 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjnrI-00087V-Dc for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:12:36 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA16550 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:11:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjnoQ-000PRP-9W for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:09:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjnoP-000PRD-H4 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:09:37 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92DCE6047 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 01:09:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB719Sk4022212 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:09:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512070109.jB719Sk4022212@drugs.dv.isc.org> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100." <200512062144.jB6LipA7063462@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:09:28 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records for a while. Whether to publish both digest types together and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the scope of this document. I think this needs to be strengthend. This currently allows you to use SHA-1 for one algorithm and SHA-256 for a different algorithm. This really needs to be made pair-wise. If you choose to publish both then you need to do this for every DNSKEY you are generating a DS for. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 21:02:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejodk-00019M-2l for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:02:42 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA21405 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejobr-00063t-MZ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:00:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [216.151.192.200] (helo=sokol.elan.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejobq-00063h-Sc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:00:43 +0000 Received: from sokol.elan.net (sokol [127.0.0.1]) by sokol.elan.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB720VtE023102; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:00:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (william@localhost) by sokol.elan.net (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) with ESMTP id jB720VTP023099; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:00:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: sokol.elan.net: william owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:00:31 -0800 (PST) From: "william(at)elan.net" To: Wes Hardaker cc: Mark Andrews , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200512062144.jB6LipA7063462@drugs.dv.isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:44:51 +1100, Mark Andrews said: > > Mark> For what it is worth, in implementing this draft, I found the > Mark> word "prefer" to be very poorly defined. So much so the code > Mark> needed to be commented to make the intent clear. > > How about changing: > > Validator implementations MUST be able to prefer DS records > containing SHA-256 digests over those containing SHA-1 digests. > > to: > > Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs containing > SHA-1 digests when a DS RR record exists with a SHA-256 digest and > covers the same name. Is this glass-half-full<=>glass-half-empty kind of changes? I really don't see a difference between these two paragraphs as far as how implimentation would work... Also is "MUST be able to" intentional (i.e. instead of just "MUST")? -- William Leibzon Elan Networks william@elan.net -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 21:18:04 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejosc-0006Ji-DA for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:18:04 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22663 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjoqB-00084s-RK for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:15:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjoqA-00084g-WE for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:15:31 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB72FIha034014; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:15:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:14:49 -0500 To: Wes Hardaker From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: one review of the DS thingy by WestWes Cc: Edward Lewis , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 11:48 -0800 12/6/05, Wes Hardaker wrote: >Edward> This is always a sticky point. It's up to an implementation >Edward> to decide if it will support RFC wxyz. > >I'm not sure what your complaint is here. Are you saying that it >shouldn't be included or that it should be changed to "Implementations >*that support this specification* MUST ...". Yeah, that's accurate and testable statement. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 21:46:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjpKU-0007LR-B5 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:46:50 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA24832 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjpIy-000C4G-DL for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:45:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjpIx-000C3x-Ez for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:45:15 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB72j5cT034191 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:45:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB72j5k0034190 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:45:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [205.226.5.69] (helo=darkstar.iprg.nokia.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjiHH-0008sy-AX for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:15:03 +0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id jB6IdqS19406; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:39:52 -0800 X-mProtect: <200512061839> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from mvdhcp14168.americas.nokia.com (172.18.141.68, claiming to be "[127.0.0.1]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdQqbKdp; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:39:50 PST Message-ID: <4395E30E.5050804@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:14:22 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Olaf M. Kolkman" CC: Alper Yegin , mip6@ietf.org, Olafur Gudmundson , Namedroppers Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] hi, Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: > First an aside, "IP-ownership" is tricky terminology. The DHCP > community uses the term "lease" which, IMHO, better reflects that an IP > assignment is not for infinity. > > In general the DNS allows maintenance of certain zones to be delegated > for technical managerial responsibility (which name servers serve the > zone, reflected in the NS RR set) as well as the responsibility for the > zones content (reflected through the SOA RR). > > The "content manager" is responsible for the content of the zone and > will therefore need to grant certain parties the authority to update > the (reverse) DNS. > > RFC2136 provides a hook for a client that has been granted authority to > update content to actually add, delete and modify using the DNS > protocol. RFC2136 uses "Primary Master" to describe which of the name > servers can be used for content management. (reflected to the MNAME in > the SOA). The authentication mechanisms used in this context are TSIG > and SIG0 but the authorization is still a local policy, managed outside > protocol. For one popular implementation the authorization is done > through configuration files. > > It is completely local policy to which client this authority granted. > > So to answer the question: > >> Isnt a client registering some other nodes IP address as its own >> via RFC2136 an issue? RFC2136 does not seem to care about this IP >> address ownership issue. Was this ever considered? > > Indeed, RFC2136 is completely ambivalent about the zone content and > assumes that the authorization of who is allowed to update a certain > zone is done "elsewhere". > > Skimming the MIP6 draft I see a lot of parties involved; I have not > read the drafts in enough detail to give sound input. Let me know if > that is needed at this time. I can briefly describe whats in the draft. what we have done so far is to let the home agent do the update (both direct and reverse tree) instead of the mobile node. this assumes the home agent is more trusted than the mobile node. the home agent knows both the FQDN of the mobile node (through IKEv2 authentication) and the home address of the mobile node (since it is involved in the home address bootstrapping). the mobile node is still in control because the home agent does not do the update until the mobile node indicates this in the binding update. we just got around addressing the address ownership problem. :) Vijay -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 21:46:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjpKX-0007Lu-OW for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:46:53 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA24835 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:46:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjpId-000Byb-ID for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:44:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjpIc-000ByP-Rd for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:44:55 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB72ijlO034177 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:44:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB72ijeh034176 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:44:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [193.201.200.170] (helo=chiark.greenend.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjIot-0005zD-MX for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:04:03 +0000 Received: by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with local (return-path ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk) id 1EjIos-0006si-00; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:04:02 +0000 From: Ian Jackson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17300.25842.53427.370378@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:04:02 +0000 To: iesg@ietf.org Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Last Call: 'The Role of Wildcards in the Domain Name System' to Proposed Standard Newsgroups: chiark.mail.ietf.announce In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 19.34.1 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] The IESG writes ("Last Call: 'The Role of Wildcards in the Domain Name System' to Proposed Standard "): > The IESG has received a request from the DNS Extensions WG to consider the > following document: > > - 'The Role of Wildcards in the Domain Name System ' > as a Proposed Standard IMO this is a good and clear draft with sensible clarifications and restrictions. However, it could do with a certain amount of copyediting for grammar and punctuation. I spotted at least one "it's" in place of "its" and at least one use of comma where a semicolon or full stop (or an actual conjuction) should have been used. Ian. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 21:47:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjpKd-0007Oh-RZ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:47:02 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA24855 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:46:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjpJN-000C77-11 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:45:41 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjpJJ-000C5g-Vv for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:45:38 +0000 Received: from mail.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB72jSTl034197 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:45:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@mail.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by mail.ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jB72jS0u034196 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:45:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [193.201.200.170] (helo=chiark.greenend.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjKc5-000Evq-Rg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:58:58 +0000 Received: from [172.18.45.6] (helo=davenant.greenend.org.uk ident=mail) by chiark.greenend.org.uk (Debian Exim 3.35 #1) with esmtp (return-path ian@davenant.greenend.org.uk) id 1EjKc4-00068B-00; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:58:56 +0000 Received: from ian by davenant.greenend.org.uk with local (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1EjKbz-0004jG-00 (Debian); Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:58:51 +0000 From: Ian Jackson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17300.32731.311564.489172@davenant.relativity.greenend.org.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:58:51 +0000 To: Thierry Moreau Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Trust anchor key IPR issues within existing DNS operations business model Newsgroups: chiark.mail.ietf.namedroppers In-Reply-To: <4383950A.4040501@connotech.com> References: <4383950A.4040501@connotech.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 19.34.1 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] Thierry Moreau writes ("Trust anchor key IPR issues within existing DNS operations business model"): > This post addresses the IPR issue with respect to trust anchor > key management for IETF purposes. > > The current business model for DNS is registration fees paid by > registrants to registrars [...] This is somewhat off-topic but I would like to point out that this assertion is not true. (I also agree with those who say that it is not a good idea for the IETF to make these kind of assumptions.) There are numerous registries in the hierarchy which do not have similar `business models' and may not even be businesses. Just three examples with which I'm familiar: * Delegation from `.' to the CC-tlds is done as a matter of sovereign right and it is far from clear that the root server operators or zone administrators ought to be put in the position of needing to pay for licenses. * Delegation from `cam.ac.uk' to its subsidiary bodies including Colleges (which are independent legal institutions) is not accompanied by a `business model'. (The delegation in some cases takes the form of a DNS zone cut with independent zone maintenance, and in others is essentially administrative.) * Delegation from `ucam.org' (which I help run). ucam.org is a not-for-profit special purpose registry, of a kind of which there are very many. It is not even a legal entity, let alone a `business', and there is no `business model' for extracting `revenue'. Ian. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 23:31:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejqxj-0005pl-AG for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:31:27 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA05384 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejqt8-000NNp-Ka for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:26:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejqt6-000NNO-Ip for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:26:40 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 0CE9211D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:26:36 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: "william(at)elan.net" Cc: Mark Andrews , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512062144.jB6LipA7063462@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:26:35 -0800 In-Reply-To: (william elan net's message of "Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:00:31 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:00:31 -0800 (PST), "william(at)elan.net" said: >> Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs containing >> SHA-1 digests when a DS RR record exists with a SHA-256 digest and >> covers the same name. william> Is this glass-half-full<=>glass-half-empty kind of changes? Yes. It's almost entirely wording nits that people have been talking about, not about the concepts underneath. william> I really don't see a difference between these two paragraphs as far william> as how implimentation would work... There isn't any. Mark was stating that the wording wasn't clear in his mind. It obviously was in yours if you read it the same way both times. :-) william> Also is "MUST be able to" intentional (i.e. instead of just "MUST")? Yes. Because it doesn't mandate policy, it only mandates that it must be possible to ignore SHA-1 in the presence of SHA-256 but allows for implementations to accept operator configuration that requires other policy. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 23:32:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjqyS-0006Ew-UN for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:32:12 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA05403 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:31:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejqwj-000Ntf-0c for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:30:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejqwi-000NtS-FT for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:30:24 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 4CEA711D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:30:20 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Mark Andrews Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512062325.jB6NPfp8010533@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:30:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200512062325.jB6NPfp8010533@drugs.dv.isc.org> (Mark Andrews's message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:25:41 +1100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:25:41 +1100, Mark Andrews said: >> Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs containing >> SHA-1 digests when a DS RR record exists with a SHA-256 digest and >> covers the same name. Mark> Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing Mark> SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the Mark> DS RRset. I'm fine with that wording but it does change the default requirement to a MUST from a SHOULD (you've combined two previous requirements (1 MUST and 1 SHOULD) into a single sentence). I actually think it should be a MUST but my feeling before was that not everyone would likely agree. If there are no objections to your wording, however, I'll use that. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 06 23:43:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejr93-0001S3-OT for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:43:09 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA06472 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:42:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejr6z-000PGC-2D for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:41:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejr6y-000PFb-DP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:41:00 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 13CA611D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:40:56 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Mark Andrews Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512070109.jB719Sk4022212@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:40:56 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200512070109.jB719Sk4022212@drugs.dv.isc.org> (Mark Andrews's message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:09:28 +1100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:09:28 +1100, Mark Andrews said: Draft> Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of Draft> SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, Draft> deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based Draft> DS records for a while. Whether to publish both digest types Draft> together and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond Draft> the scope of this document. Mark> I think this needs to be strengthend. This currently allows Mark> you to use SHA-1 for one algorithm and SHA-256 for a different Mark> algorithm. This really needs to be made pair-wise. If you Mark> choose to publish both then you need to do this for every Mark> DNSKEY you are generating a DS for. The rather strong previous consensus was not to dictate operational requirements at all. Thus I think what should be added to alleviate your concerns with different algorithm choices: Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records for a while. If multiple algorithms are used for a given name then both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records should be published for every algorithm. Whether to make use of both digest types and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the scope of this document. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 00:03:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjrT8-00083r-79 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:03:54 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08668 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:03:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjrOq-0001XM-C3 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:59:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjrOp-0001XB-KP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:59:27 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E88E6047 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:59:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB74xMxh007389; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:59:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512070459.jB74xMxh007389@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Wes Hardaker Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:40:56 -0800." Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:59:22 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:09:28 +1100, Mark Andrews said > : > > Draft> Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of > Draft> SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, > Draft> deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based > Draft> DS records for a while. Whether to publish both digest types > Draft> together and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond > Draft> the scope of this document. > > Mark> I think this needs to be strengthend. This currently allows > Mark> you to use SHA-1 for one algorithm and SHA-256 for a different > Mark> algorithm. This really needs to be made pair-wise. If you > Mark> choose to publish both then you need to do this for every > Mark> DNSKEY you are generating a DS for. > > The rather strong previous consensus was not to dictate operational > requirements at all. Thus I think what should be added to alleviate > your concerns with different algorithm choices: > > Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support > of SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given > zone, deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 > based DS records for a while. If multiple algorithms are used for a > given name then both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records should be > published for every algorithm. Whether to make use of both digest > types and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the > scope of this document. I'd still prefer the following change s/algorithm/algorithm and preferably for every DNSKEY for which a DS is being generated/ One per algorithm is the minimum required to prevent the delegation going unsecure. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 00:56:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjsIH-0005eL-22 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:56:45 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA14244 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjsFn-0008NF-HO for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 05:54:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjsFm-0008N2-Tz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 05:54:11 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id EAB5911D52D; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 21:54:06 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Mark Andrews Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512070459.jB74xMxh007389@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:54:06 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200512070459.jB74xMxh007389@drugs.dv.isc.org> (Mark Andrews's message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:59:22 +1100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:59:22 +1100, Mark Andrews said: >> Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support >> of SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given >> zone, deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 >> based DS records for a while. If multiple algorithms are used for a >> given name then both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records should be >> published for every algorithm. Whether to make use of both digest >> types and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the >> scope of this document. Mark> I'd still prefer the following change Mark> s/algorithm/algorithm and preferably for every DNSKEY for which a DS is being generated/ Ok, but that's actually sort of stating the same thing again. Can't we simplify things and just use your last wording without mentioning algorithms? Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records. This should be done for every DNSKEY for which a DS records are being generated. Whether to make use of both digest types and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the scope of this document. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 02:53:23 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eju79-0002BJ-Ja for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:53:23 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA27499 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:52:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eju49-00008A-A6 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:50:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eju48-00007w-KT for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:50:16 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B654E604B for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 07:50:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB77oCoE059220; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 18:50:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512070750.jB77oCoE059220@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Wes Hardaker Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:54:06 -0800." Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:50:12 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:59:22 +1100, Mark Andrews said > : > > >> Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support > >> of SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given > >> zone, deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 > >> based DS records for a while. If multiple algorithms are used for a > >> given name then both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS records should be > >> published for every algorithm. Whether to make use of both digest > >> types and for how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the > >> scope of this document. > > Mark> I'd still prefer the following change > > Mark> s/algorithm/algorithm and preferably for every DNSKEY for which a DS is bein > g generated/ > > Ok, but that's actually sort of stating the same thing again. Can't > we simplify things and just use your last wording without mentioning > algorithms? > > Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of > SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, > deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS > records. This should be done for every DNSKEY for which a DS records > are being generated. Whether to make use of both digest types and for > how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the scope of this > document. I'm fine with this wording. > -- > Wes Hardaker > Sparta, Inc. > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 03:59:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejv8m-0002C8-Dq for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 03:59:08 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA04454 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejv57-0007h0-II for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:55:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejv54-0007gT-Cq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:55:18 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::53]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jB78sXNh039123; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:54:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@nlnetlabs.nl) In-Reply-To: <4395E30E.5050804@iprg.nokia.com> References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> <4395E30E.5050804@iprg.nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-65-1019649340" Message-Id: Cc: Alper Yegin , mip6@ietf.org, Olafur Gudmundson , Namedroppers Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:54:31 +0100 To: Vijay Devarapalli X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-65-1019649340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I can briefly describe whats in the draft. what we have done so > far is to let the home agent do the update (both direct and > reverse tree) instead of the mobile node. this assumes the home > agent is more trusted than the mobile node. And would the mobile node have an IP6 address on the access network (i.e. roaming far away from its home agent) for which it would need to update the reverse DNS? My general thinking goes into the direction of SIG0 based authentication. I think that can be made to work but I need to understand the relation between the maintainer of the DNS in the forward tree(s), the maintainer of the DNS in the reverse tree, and the maintainer of the mobile agent, the mobile client and the networks involved. Obviously you will need to store the client's public keys somewhere in the DNS, that could be a duty of the home agent during the bootstrapping phase. The maintainers of the several pieces of DNS namespace should then put trust into those keys. This technology (SIG0 based dynamic updates of secured zones) works today. And now I should really scheadule some time to read about the general MIP6 architecture, for now I am just thinking out loud, a bad practice :-) --Olaf ----------------------------------------------------------- Olaf M. Kolkman NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --Apple-Mail-65-1019649340 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: This message is locally signed. iD8DBQFDlqNMtN/ca3YJIocRAmuFAJ0SUzM7c/2VUgq8lhCeapGAUspHaACgwNFh qiFuFVXKzrAyaFceUXOJjaw= =lfJ0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-65-1019649340-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 04:36:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ejvis-0003YU-OT for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:36:27 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA08068 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:35:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejvg6-000CDA-7n for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:33:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [195.82.114.197] (helo=shed.alex.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ejvg5-000CCu-FP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:33:33 +0000 Received: from [192.168.100.25] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shed.alex.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED043C2DAA; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:33:31 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:33:14 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Mark Andrews , Wes Hardaker Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200512062325.jB6NPfp8010533@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <200512062325.jB6NPfp8010533@drugs.dv.isc.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On 07 December 2005 10:25 +1100 Mark Andrews wrote: > Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing > SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the > DS RRset. I may be missing the point but I thin this argument is beside the point. The reason for preferring (in what ever sense - and it's the sense of "prefer" you seem to be arguing about) SHA-256 is in case SHA-1 gets broken (for some value of broken). If that occurs, a useful attack mode would presumably not only involve generating bogus RRsets with SHA-1 digests, but also ensuring no SHA-256 digests are present. Therefore, IF it is a concern that SHA-1 is "too easy to break", THEN it should be an option for the validator to ignore SHA-1 whether or not there is an SHA-256 digest present or not. As ignoring SHA-1 digests when no other digests are present is going to render the zone insecure, the corollary of this would seem to be that you then have to deprecate USING SHA-1 to sign the DS RRs in the first place (noting that some validators may not treat DS RRs signed only with SHA-1 as secure, as they may ignore SHA-1 signed DS RRs). So it seems to me the two logical options are to say * SHA-1 MUST NOT be used as a digest for DS RRs. Validators MAY ignore DS RRs with SHA-1 digests (whether or not SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset); [leaves the option open to validators of accepting them anyway for back compatibility or whatever] ; OR * SHA-1 SHOULD NOT be used as a digest for DS RRs. Validators MUST NOT ignore DS RRs with SHA-1 digests if there are no DS RRs with SHA-256 digests present in the DS RRset. Validators MAY ignore DS RRs with SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRSet. [This means that even those using only SHA-256 to sign are vulnerable to injection attacks if SHA-1 is really broken]. Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 06:48:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjxmE-00059D-Qa for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 06:48:03 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23644 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 06:47:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjxiF-0001cd-19 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:43:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjxiE-0001cQ-5E for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:43:54 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41ACBE604B for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:43:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB7BhhCh059845; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 22:43:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Alex Bligh Cc: Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 09:33:14 -0000." Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:43:43 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > --On 07 December 2005 10:25 +1100 Mark Andrews wrote: > > > Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing > > SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the > > DS RRset. > > I may be missing the point but I thin this argument is beside the > point. > > The reason for preferring (in what ever sense - and it's the sense of > "prefer" you seem to be arguing about) SHA-256 is in case SHA-1 gets broken > (for some value of broken). If that occurs, a useful attack mode would > presumably not only involve generating bogus RRsets with SHA-1 digests, but > also ensuring no SHA-256 digests are present. > > Therefore, IF it is a concern that SHA-1 is "too easy to break", THEN it > should be an option for the validator to ignore SHA-1 whether or not there > is an SHA-256 digest present or not. As ignoring SHA-1 digests when no > other digests are present is going to render the zone insecure, the > corollary of this would seem to be that you then have to deprecate USING > SHA-1 to sign the DS RRs in the first place (noting that some validators > may not treat DS RRs signed only with SHA-1 as secure, as they may ignore > SHA-1 signed DS RRs). > > So it seems to me the two logical options are to say > * SHA-1 MUST NOT be used as a digest for DS RRs. Validators MAY ignore > DS RRs with SHA-1 digests (whether or not SHA-256 digests are present > in the DS RRset); [leaves the option open to validators of accepting > them anyway for back compatibility or whatever] ; OR > * SHA-1 SHOULD NOT be used as a digest for DS RRs. Validators MUST NOT > ignore DS RRs with SHA-1 digests if there are no DS RRs with SHA-256 > digests present in the DS RRset. Validators MAY ignore DS RRs with > SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the > DS RRSet. [This means that even those using only SHA-256 to sign are > vulnerable to injection attacks if SHA-1 is really broken]. > > Alex > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: What we are trying to do is phase out the use of SHA1. We are not waiting for SHA1 to be broken. This is a pre-emptive replacement with SHA256 and we are trying to workout how to go from all DS/SHA1 to all DS/SHA256 without breaking the trust chains. You can do this in a number of ways. 1. deploy validators which support DS/SHA256, wait serveral years for there to be a critical mass of validators then start generating DS/SHA256 records and stop generating DS/SHA1. 2. deploy validators which support DS/SHA256, start generating both DS/SHA256 and DS/SHA1, when there is critical mass stop generating DS/SHA1. Now when both exist you can "choose any" or "prefer one over the other" which in practice means you need to ignore one when the other is present. Note there is not enough information in a DS record to match the DS/SHA1 and the DS/SHA256 for the same key w/o generating both hashes hence the requirement to generate both for each key. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 07:28:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjyPa-00062n-26 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:28:42 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA27968 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 07:27:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjyN6-00055B-3k for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:26:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, INFO_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EjyN5-00054z-GL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:26:07 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EjyN3-0007JT-Ph; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:26:05 -0500 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id DEF1113744; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 07:25:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 07:25:54 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Wes Hardaker Cc: Mark Andrews , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Message-ID: <20051207122554.GA6322@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: <200512070459.jB74xMxh007389@drugs.dv.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 09:54:06PM -0800, Wes Hardaker wrote: > deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS > records. This should be done for every DNSKEY for which a DS records I like this wording. It gives useful operational guidance without setting policy. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 10:22:30 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek17m-00053W-4q for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:22:30 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19329 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek13a-000NAP-8J for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:18:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek13Y-000NA1-38 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:18:08 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB7FHq3m037392; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:17:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:34:40 -0500 To: Mark Andrews From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Cc: Alex Bligh , Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 22:43 +1100 12/7/05, Mark Andrews wrote: > What we are trying to do is phase out the use of SHA1. We are > not waiting for SHA1 to be broken. This is a pre-emptive > replacement with SHA256 and we are trying to workout how to > go from all DS/SHA1 to all DS/SHA256 without breaking the > trust chains. I don't think it's right to make the phase out of SHA1 to stated goal. The goal is to define SHA256 as an alternative and document why it is better than SHA1 and why an operator (of DNS) ought to prefer to use SHA256 (given that SHA1 is already in play). As a consumer of DNS code, I want code that has as much functionality as possible, other things being equal. E.g., if you released BIND 9.12.2 with SHA1 in it and the only change for 9.12.3 was to remove it - I wouldn't bother to upgrade. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 11:42:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek2NY-0007i3-E0 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:42:52 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27576 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek2Jr-0005rs-DB for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:39:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [195.82.114.197] (helo=shed.alex.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek2Jq-0005rU-It for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:39:02 +0000 Received: from [192.168.100.25] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shed.alex.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138F6C2DAA; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:39:01 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:38:44 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Edward Lewis , Mark Andrews Cc: Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Message-ID: <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> In-Reply-To: References: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On 07 December 2005 08:34 -0500 Edward Lewis wrote: > I don't think it's right to make the phase out of SHA1 to stated goal. > The goal is to define SHA256 as an alternative and document why it is > better than SHA1 and why an operator (of DNS) ought to prefer to use > SHA256 (given that SHA1 is already in play). I guess my point is that provided validators continue accepting SHA1, authoritative servers using SHA256 are still vulnerable to attack, by spoofing SHA1 records if SHA-1 is broken. IE the operator will be helped not be using SHA-256, but by the validator not accepting SHA-1. I appreciate saying that validators MUST NOT / SHOULD NOT / "ought to think about not" accepting SHA-1 may be too far a step to take, but it seems to me that the point is not what happens on the authoritative server end, but the validator end (imagine what would happen if validators accepted DS records without any digest - and compare that to a totally broken SHA-1). Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 12:20:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek2xm-0000zn-3h for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:20:20 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01670 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:19:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek2vQ-000AA3-2B for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:17:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek2vP-000A9i-8N for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:17:51 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.108] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB7HHbPc037838; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:17:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> References: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:18:01 -0500 To: Alex Bligh From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Cc: Edward Lewis , Mark Andrews , Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 16:38 +0000 12/7/05, Alex Bligh wrote: >--On 07 December 2005 08:34 -0500 Edward Lewis wrote: > >> I don't think it's right to make the phase out of SHA1 to stated goal. >> The goal is to define SHA256 as an alternative and document why it is >> better than SHA1 and why an operator (of DNS) ought to prefer to use >> SHA256 (given that SHA1 is already in play). > >I guess my point is that provided validators continue accepting SHA1, >authoritative servers using SHA256 are still vulnerable to attack, by >spoofing SHA1 records if SHA-1 is broken. IE the operator will be helped >not be using SHA-256, but by the validator not accepting SHA-1. I (problem - "be" should be "by?") >appreciate saying that validators MUST NOT / SHOULD NOT / "ought to think >about not" accepting SHA-1 may be too far a step to take, but it seems to >me that the point is not what happens on the authoritative server end, but >the validator end (imagine what would happen if validators accepted DS >records without any digest - and compare that to a totally broken SHA-1). One basic tenet of DNSSEC - it's about the resolvers, not the servers. Servers can only make data available to provide "proof" of goodness, it's up to the validators to make the right call. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 14:13:19 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek4j9-0006E5-PL for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:13:19 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15007 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:12:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek4g3-000MAZ-A3 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:10:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek4g1-000M9d-9B for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:10:05 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 65DC011D52D; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:10:02 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Mark Andrews Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512070750.jB77oCoE059220@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:10:02 -0800 In-Reply-To: <200512070750.jB77oCoE059220@drugs.dv.isc.org> (Mark Andrews's message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:50:12 +1100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:50:12 +1100, Mark Andrews said: >> Because zone administrators can not control the deployment support of >> SHA-256 in deployed validators that may referencing any given zone, >> deployments should consider publishing both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based DS >> records. This should be done for every DNSKEY for which a DS records >> are being generated. Whether to make use of both digest types and for >> how long is a policy decision that extends beyond the scope of this >> document. Mark> I'm fine with this wording. Changed. Thanks (to both you and Andrew) -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 07 14:25:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek4uS-0008GQ-Aa for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:25:00 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16318 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek4rm-000NY6-F5 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:22:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ek4rl-000NXr-Di for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:22:13 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 5BFED11D52D; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Alex Bligh Cc: Edward Lewis , Mark Andrews , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Organization: Sparta References: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:22:10 -0800 In-Reply-To: <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> (Alex Bligh's message of "Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:38:44 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:38:44 +0000, Alex Bligh said: Alex> I guess my point is that provided validators continue accepting Alex> SHA1, authoritative servers using SHA256 are still vulnerable to Alex> attack, by spoofing SHA1 records if SHA-1 is broken. IE the Alex> operator will be helped not be using SHA-256, but by the Alex> validator not accepting SHA-1. If a zone operator publishes both SHA-256 and SHA-1 based records then validators that support SHA-256 will always have a secure path to the child. Attackers can not remove the SHA-256 record in the DS RR set since the RRSIG covering them wouldn't validate. Thus a validator would know that data was missing and wouldn't even get the point of checking the SHA-1 hash. The only way a SHA-1 DS record can be attacked (assuming operators do actually prefer SHA-256) is if a collision is found for an existing DS record and if the DS set only contains SHA-1 based records. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From mrd@advertisingtulsa.com Wed Dec 07 16:12:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ek6ag-0002OA-Si for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:12:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28256 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:11:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-24-98-143-25.hsd1.ga.comcast.net ([24.98.143.25] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ek6wP-0007yA-V5 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:35:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5fb9c$c8aa4880$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jorge Ramirez" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FB9C.C8AA4880-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 08 08:42:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkM2e-0006sh-JM for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:42:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15857 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:41:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkLxa-000L9T-CW for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:37:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [195.82.114.197] (helo=shed.alex.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkLxZ-000L9G-Jm for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:37:21 +0000 Received: from Satori.nominet.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shed.alex.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6A6C2DFC; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:37:20 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:37:16 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Edward Lewis Cc: Edward Lewis , Mark Andrews , Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Message-ID: <00155121C64B4F10B1556EC6@Satori.nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I guess my point is that provided validators continue accepting SHA1, >> authoritative servers using SHA256 are still vulnerable to attack, by >> spoofing SHA1 records if SHA-1 is broken. IE the operator will be helped >> not be using SHA-256, but by the validator not accepting SHA-1. I > > (problem - "be" should be "by?") Yes Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 08 08:42:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkM2e-0006sT-5o for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:42:45 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15854 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:41:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkLzQ-000LMf-Ij for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:39:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [195.82.114.197] (helo=shed.alex.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkLzP-000LMU-Vq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:39:16 +0000 Received: from Satori.nominet.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shed.alex.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25320C2DFC; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:39:15 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:39:11 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Wes Hardaker Cc: Edward Lewis , Mark Andrews , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Message-ID: <7DDBB456EAFD23D2B6EBB34B@Satori.nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <200512071143.jB7BhhCh059845@drugs.dv.isc.org> <58C20D2039EB7F2C359E9719@[192.168.100.25]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wes, --On 07 December 2005 11:22 -0800 Wes Hardaker wrote: > Alex> I guess my point is that provided validators continue accepting > Alex> SHA1, authoritative servers using SHA256 are still vulnerable to > Alex> attack, by spoofing SHA1 records if SHA-1 is broken. IE the > Alex> operator will be helped not be using SHA-256, but by the > Alex> validator not accepting SHA-1. > > If a zone operator publishes both SHA-256 and SHA-1 based records then > validators that support SHA-256 will always have a secure path to the > child. Attackers can not remove the SHA-256 record in the DS RR set > since the RRSIG covering them wouldn't validate. Thus a validator > would know that data was missing and wouldn't even get the point of > checking the SHA-1 hash. The only way a SHA-1 DS record can be > attacked (assuming operators do actually prefer SHA-256) is if a > collision is found for an existing DS record and if the DS set only > contains SHA-1 based records. Assuming the malefactor has control over an intervening point in the network, can he not just prevent the validator from seeing the fact there is an SHA-256 record there in the first place? (man in the middle attack - remove the packets and introduce just the SHA-1 DS record of his choice). This is my assumption - if I'm wrong about that, then clearly you are right in the rest of your logic. Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 08 08:57:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkMH7-0001Tn-OS for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:57:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17480 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMEa-000NMr-Fi for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:54:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [131.111.8.131] (helo=ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMEZ-000NMd-NS for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:54:55 +0000 X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from libra.cus.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.19]:44406) by ppsw-1.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.131]:25) with esmtp id 1EkMEU-0004o0-68 (Exim 4.54) for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org (return-path ); Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:54:50 +0000 Received: from cet1 by libra.cus.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMET-00027g-O7; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:54:49 +0000 Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation To: alex@alex.org.uk Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:54:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hardaker@tislabs.com, Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz, Mark_Andrews@isc.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <7DDBB456EAFD23D2B6EBB34B@Satori.nominet.org.uk> from "Alex Bligh" at Dec 8, 5 01:39:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Chris Thompson Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit alex@alex.org.uk writes: > Assuming the malefactor has control over an intervening point in the > network, can he not just prevent the validator from seeing the fact > there is an SHA-256 record there in the first place? (man in the > middle attack - remove the packets and introduce just the > SHA-1 DS record of his choice). This is my assumption - if I'm > wrong about that, then clearly you are right in the rest of your > logic. How would the MoM sign it? Surely the two DS records are part of the same RRset, and so signed as a single entity. -- Chris Thompson Email: cet1@cam.ac.uk -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 08 08:59:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkMIb-0001j2-1t for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:59:05 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17752 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMGX-000Nfh-2q for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:56:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMGW-000NfL-4J for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:56:56 +0000 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (pushme.nist.gov [129.6.16.92]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jB8DuoT3024124; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:56:51 -0500 Received: from barnacle (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id jB8DuV3u006977; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:56:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Scott Rose" To: "Alex Bligh" , "Wes Hardaker" Cc: Subject: RE: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:56:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <7DDBB456EAFD23D2B6EBB34B@Satori.nominet.org.uk> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Alex Bligh > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:39 AM > To: Wes Hardaker > Cc: Edward Lewis; Mark Andrews; namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Alex Bligh > Subject: Re: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation > > > Wes, > > --On 07 December 2005 11:22 -0800 Wes Hardaker > wrote: > > > Alex> I guess my point is that provided validators continue accepting > > Alex> SHA1, authoritative servers using SHA256 are still vulnerable to > > Alex> attack, by spoofing SHA1 records if SHA-1 is broken. IE the > > Alex> operator will be helped not be using SHA-256, but by the > > Alex> validator not accepting SHA-1. > > > > If a zone operator publishes both SHA-256 and SHA-1 based records then > > validators that support SHA-256 will always have a secure path to the > > child. Attackers can not remove the SHA-256 record in the DS RR set > > since the RRSIG covering them wouldn't validate. Thus a validator > > would know that data was missing and wouldn't even get the point of > > checking the SHA-1 hash. The only way a SHA-1 DS record can be > > attacked (assuming operators do actually prefer SHA-256) is if a > > collision is found for an existing DS record and if the DS set only > > contains SHA-1 based records. > > Assuming the malefactor has control over an intervening point in the > network, can he not just prevent the validator from seeing the fact > there is an SHA-256 record there in the first place? (man in the > middle attack - remove the packets and introduce just the > SHA-1 DS record of his choice). This is my assumption - if I'm > wrong about that, then clearly you are right in the rest of your > logic. > If the DS RR is removed, the covering RRSIG wouldn't validate (needs the entire RRset). The validator would get confused and be unable to continue the validation chain, but it would be able to know it was under attack. Scott -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 08 09:06:04 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkMPL-0002VM-V9 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:06:04 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18097 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:05:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMMo-000OQj-IN for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:03:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [195.82.114.197] (helo=shed.alex.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EkMMn-000OQL-Rk for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:03:26 +0000 Received: from Satori.nominet.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shed.alex.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25D42C2DFF; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 14:03:25 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:03:21 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Scott Rose , Wes Hardaker Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: RE: DS Algorithm selection and SHA1 deprecation Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On 08 December 2005 08:56 -0500 Scott Rose wrote: > If the DS RR is removed, the covering RRSIG wouldn't validate (needs the > entire RRset). > > The validator would get confused and be unable to continue the validation > chain, but it would be able to know it was under attack. Yes Geoff just walked in and explained it. There's one RRSig to cover *all* the digests. I was thinking "but this could be vulnerable to the SHA-1 attack too". The point, however, is that if ALL parent zones up to the root have SHA-256, this vulnerability isn't there either. So I agree that a validator that accepts and SHA-1 digest does not degrade the security of a signer who signs with SHA-256 and possibly other digests, assuming SHA-256 is preferred. Which means I also agree with the proposed text. Apologies for the rat-hole. Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From inner_light7@analyticmath.com Thu Dec 08 11:05:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkOHJ-0007sZ-4E for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:05:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03531 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpe0050180ea7ef-cm013469903651.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com ([72.140.6.22] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EkOHI-0005zy-Mn for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:05:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5fc3b$3016d580$0100007f@localhost> From: "Dillon Wood" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? 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Kolkman" CC: Alper Yegin , mip6@ietf.org, Olafur Gudmundson , Namedroppers Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: RFC2136 and IP address ownership References: <002401c5f9ea$64757550$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> <4395E30E.5050804@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: >> >> I can briefly describe whats in the draft. what we have done so >> far is to let the home agent do the update (both direct and >> reverse tree) instead of the mobile node. this assumes the home >> agent is more trusted than the mobile node. > > > And would the mobile node have an IP6 address on the access network > (i.e. roaming far away from its home agent) for which it would need to > update the reverse DNS? no. the DNS update is only for the home address. and the home address is allocated from the home link. Vijay > > My general thinking goes into the direction of SIG0 based > authentication. I think that can be made to work but I need to > understand the relation between the maintainer of the DNS in the > forward tree(s), the maintainer of the DNS in the reverse tree, and the > maintainer of the mobile agent, the mobile client and the networks > involved. > > Obviously you will need to store the client's public keys somewhere in > the DNS, that could be a duty of the home agent during the > bootstrapping phase. The maintainers of the several pieces of DNS > namespace should then put trust into those keys. > > This technology (SIG0 based dynamic updates of secured zones) works today. > > And now I should really scheadule some time to read about the general > MIP6 architecture, for now I am just thinking out loud, a bad practice :-) > > --Olaf > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Olaf M. 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FF88.8449EE80-- From dchaffin@arclightsystemsinc.com Mon Dec 12 16:47:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ElvWJ-0000av-Ig for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:47:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA02256 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:46:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from 71-38-183-220.cdrr.qwest.net ([71.38.183.220] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ElvWj-00089r-Mk for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:48:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5ff8f$8c595c80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Calvin Scott" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:47:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FF8F.8C595C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FF8F.8C595C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 45 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 35 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 39 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FF8F.8C595C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FF8F.8C595C80-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 01:50:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Em3z6-0005l1-4e for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:50:00 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08232 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Em3tS-000JEL-Q4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:44:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Em3tS-000JEA-2J for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:44:10 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 47D0911D619; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:44:05 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt published Organization: Sparta Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:44:04 -0800 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk I've just sent draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt to the publishers and the presses should be spitting it out soon. It fixes all outstanding issues that were brought up in the last review and I believe makes everyone happy. Based on the last review I think the chairs can probably send it off, but I'll leave that call to them. ChangeLog: revision 1.17 date: 2005/12/09 05:34:57; author: hardaker; state: Exp; lines: +3 -3 fix missing prepositions. ---------------------------- revision 1.16 date: 2005/12/08 23:30:59; author: hardaker; state: Exp; lines: +9 -8 Minor English corrections to make the first sentence of the second paragraph of the deployment considerations more understandable. ---------------------------- revision 1.15 date: 2005/12/07 19:09:31; author: hardaker; state: Exp; lines: +19 -18 new wording for deployment suggestions based on discussion in namedroppers ---------------------------- revision 1.14 date: 2005/12/06 19:49:28; author: hardaker; state: Exp; lines: +9 -7 - wording changes suggested by Ed in a06200701bfbb8848c6eb@[10.31.32.108] ---------------------------- revision 1.13 date: 2005/12/06 19:42:06; author: hardaker; state: Exp; lines: +2 -2 it's -> its ---------------------------- revision 1.12 date: 2005/11/30 05:07:59; author: hardaker; state: Exp; lines: +2 -2 fix typo -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From fayimon@audioreference.com Tue Dec 13 06:16:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Em89I-0005qw-Lj for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:16:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA07301 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:15:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [218.24.163.212] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Em8AC-0003OG-Ut for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:17:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60000$4b4d6080$0100007f@localhost> From: "Damien Robinson" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:16:21 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60000.4B4D6080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60000.4B4D6080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60000.4B4D6080-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 11:22:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmCuh-0000Gq-5C for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:22:03 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16260 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmCq1-000Lfn-L4 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:17:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [198.32.6.68] (helo=karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmCpy-000LfI-GI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:17:10 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id jBDGH7IV018808; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:17:07 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id jBDGH3Mw018807; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:17:03 GMT Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:17:03 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: unbound resolver - feedback requested Message-ID: <20051213161703.GA18773@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk greetings, after several months of work, we would like to announce the availablity of the first work product of the unbound project... a validating resolver. our prototype full-service, iterative-mode, validating DNS resolver is written entirely in Java and is licensed under the BSD open-source license. it may be found here: http://www.rfc.se/unbound comments & suggestions welcome. --bill -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 11:52:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmDOJ-0007ns-Rv for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:52:46 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19407 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:51:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmDKQ-000Osv-7n for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:48:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [217.13.230.178] (helo=yxa.extundo.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmDKO-000Osa-U8 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:48:37 +0000 Received: from latte.josefsson.org (jas@yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id jBDGmO68004856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:48:24 +0100 From: Simon Josefsson To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Cc: dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: unbound resolver - feedback requested References: <10380.5173690946$1134491416@news.gmane.org> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:21:051213:namedroppers@ops.ietf.org::7rHCtkXlmIC+YRMh:3IUH X-Hashcash: 1:21:051213:dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com::dwDj5y8wYssUpyOU:9Gju X-Hashcash: 1:21:051213:bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com::I/99hk68iDTia3k1:ECHt Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:48:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <10380.5173690946$1134491416@news.gmane.org> (bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com's message of "Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:17:03 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com writes: > greetings, > > after several months of work, we would like to announce the availablity > of the first work product of the unbound project... a validating resolver. > > our prototype full-service, iterative-mode, validating DNS resolver is written > entirely in Java and is licensed under the BSD open-source license. > > it may be found here: http://www.rfc.se/unbound > > comments & suggestions welcome. Rewrite it in C and offer it to various free libc implementations? -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 11:57:47 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmDTH-0008RL-NU for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:57:47 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20219 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:56:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmDQp-000Pb9-Bv for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:55:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [198.32.6.68] (helo=karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmDQo-000Pax-QH for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:55:14 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id jBDGswIV018951; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:54:58 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id jBDGswsm018950; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:54:58 GMT Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:54:58 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Simon Josefsson Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: unbound resolver - feedback requested Message-ID: <20051213165458.GB18914@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <10380.5173690946$1134491416@news.gmane.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 05:48:17PM +0100, Simon Josefsson wrote: > bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com writes: > > > greetings, > > > > after several months of work, we would like to announce the availablity > > of the first work product of the unbound project... a validating resolver. > > > > our prototype full-service, iterative-mode, validating DNS resolver is written > > entirely in Java and is licensed under the BSD open-source license. > > > > it may be found here: http://www.rfc.se/unbound > > > > comments & suggestions welcome. > > Rewrite it in C and offer it to various free libc implementations? did you check the web site? that work is in progress. we thought it would be nice to get early feedback before locking down the C version. --bill -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From decola@arkhan.com Tue Dec 13 14:37:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmFxg-0001Th-GI for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:37:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10952 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [212.92.166.14] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmFyO-0005Im-1d for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:38:26 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:36:38 +0300 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:36:38 +0300 Message-ID: <000001c60046$30054400$0100007f@localhost> From: "Asher Sanders" To: Subject: Don't be left behing- the enlargement revolution! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60046.30054400-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 16:47:47 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmHzu-0004GX-M3 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:47:47 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA03606 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmHwE-0003p8-3A for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:43:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmHwB-0003ot-2z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:43:55 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D95411425; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:43:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Simon Josefsson cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: unbound resolver - feedback requested In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:48:17 +0100." References: <10380.5173690946$1134491416@news.gmane.org> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:43:54 +0000 Message-Id: <20051213214354.1D95411425@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk # > entirely in Java and is licensed under the BSD open-source license. # > # > it may be found here: http://www.rfc.se/unbound # > # > comments & suggestions welcome. # # Rewrite it in C and offer it to various free libc implementations? if bind's resolver isn't fitting the needs of the various free libc implementations, i hope they'll speak up. jinmei is doing a re-work and this is the right time for us to know the ways in which bind is considered non-ideal. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From iman@agrimini.com Tue Dec 13 17:16:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmIS6-0003oE-EV for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:16:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06954 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:15:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from h225.61.28.71.ip.alltel.net ([71.28.61.225] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmISy-0004zl-94 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:17:49 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:16:30 -0500 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:16:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c6005c$b3ca2b00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Derek Bailey" To: Subject: Massive PE patch sale Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:16:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6005C.B3CA2B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6005C.B3CA2B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6005C.B3CA2B00-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 18:52:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmJx0-0005D3-4U for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:52:54 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15619 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmJuH-000Fbg-Ba for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:50:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmJuF-000FZn-Kq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:50:04 +0000 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EmJuE-0003Zf-53; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:50:02 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:50:02 -0500 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Use of SHA-256 in DNSSEC Delegation Signer (DS) Resource Records (RRs) Author(s) : W. Hardaker Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2005-12-13 This document specifies how to use the SHA-256 digest type in DNS Delegation Signer (DS) Resource Records (RRs). DS records, when stored in a parent zone, point to key signing DNSKEY key(s) in a child zone. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-12-13160920.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-12-13160920.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 19:10:58 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmKES-0001Di-P0 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:10:58 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19046 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:09:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmKBv-000Hep-83 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:08:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmKBu-000Hea-Bh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:08:18 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBE088Lv007103 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:08:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20051213190224.02e7c310@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:06:17 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= /DNSEXT co-chair Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051017155946.03fbdd88@localhost> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20051017155946.03fbdd88@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In light of the new WG requirement that every document the working group advances there must be a set of WG members on record that they have reviewed the documents before the WG chairs can advance the document. This is a call for 5 members of the WG to read and review each of these documents. thanks Olafur At 23:48 17/10/2005, =D3lafur Gu=F0mundsson /DNSEXT wrote: >This message starts a 2 week Working Group Last call ending on >November 1, for the two following documents: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2536bis-dsa-06.txt >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-06.txt > >These two documents replace older RFC's to reflect the fact DSA and >Diffie-Hellman keying information is encoded the same way in KEY and >DNSKEY RR's (and other DNS RR types). >The documents contain few minor textual changes from the RFC's they are >replacing, including references to the DNSSEC-bis documents. > >These documents are on standards track and will be recycled at >proposed standard, to be at the same level as DNSSEC-bis. > >The default action is to advance these documents, if you find any >issues with the documents please raise them now. > > Olafur & Olaf > >-- >to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with >the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. >archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 19:18:38 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmKLt-0003mH-Ou for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:18:38 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21087 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmKJz-000IVr-6e for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:16:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmKJy-000IVc-Kb for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:16:38 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D900E604A for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:16:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBE0GX4k099217 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:16:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512140016.jBE0GX4k099217@drugs.dv.isc.org> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:50:02 CDT." Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:16:33 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Looks good. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 20:20:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmLJV-000705-5J for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:20:15 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA03796 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:19:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmLGh-000Og8-Tj for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:17:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmLGg-000Ofx-VF for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:17:19 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B94E6047 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:17:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBE1HF65042508 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:17:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512140117.jBE1HF65042508@drugs.dv.isc.org> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:06:17 CDT." <6.2.5.6.2.20051213190224.02e7c310@ogud.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:17:15 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2536bis-dsa-06.txt The only change I would make is to make a reference to the current key types. When DSA public keys are stored in the DNS, the structure of the relevant part of the RDATA part of the RR being used is the fields listed below in the order given. When DSA public keys are stored in the DNS, the structure of the relevant part of the RDATA part of the RR (currently KEY and DNSKEY) being used is the fields listed below in the order given. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 13 20:32:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmLVn-0001zH-Jd for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:32:55 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05385 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmLTb-00003I-6u for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:30:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.5] (helo=farside.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmLTa-000036-Mi for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:30:38 +0000 Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost.isc.org [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1A1E6047 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBE1UaVO054220 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:30:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <200512140130.jBE1UaVO054220@drugs.dv.isc.org> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:06:17 CDT." <6.2.5.6.2.20051213190224.02e7c310@ogud.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:30:36 +1100 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-06.txt Section 2 you dropped the description of the first 4 octets of the KEY record but you left them in the diagram. I would suggest that they be removed from the diagram. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2536bis-dsa-06.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-06.txt Both need a section describing the change from the RFC's they are obsoleting. Something stating that it doesn't change the wire format of KEY RR's it mearly extends the use to also cover DNSKEY. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 14 02:56:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmRVB-0003s8-7h for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:56:45 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13582 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmRQ2-0009RU-BK for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:51:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.244.168.210] (helo=outpost.ds9a.nl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmRQ1-0009RG-4X for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:51:21 +0000 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D217B405E; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:15 +0100 From: bert hubert To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Cc: dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: unbound resolver - feedback requested Message-ID: <20051214075114.GA7468@outpost.ds9a.nl> Mail-Followup-To: bert hubert , bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, dnssec-deployment@shinkuro.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org References: <20051213161703.GA18773@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051213161703.GA18773@vacation.karoshi.com.> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 04:17:03PM +0000, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > after several months of work, we would like to announce the availablity of > the first work product of the unbound project... a validating resolver. I've pondered doing this as well, the PowerDNS recursor at one point was only a 1000 lines or so, but didn't do it because I feared too many applications would start to do their own DNS and not rely on caches. DNSSEC validation support is good to have of course. -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From pb_true@access2surf.com Wed Dec 14 05:02:19 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmTSl-0006oX-6q for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:02:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28377 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:00:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from 68-185-83-158.dhcp.trlk.ca.charter.com ([68.185.83.158] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmTTH-0006xm-4U for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 05:02:52 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:01:21 -0800 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:01:21 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c600bf$2d930080$0100007f@localhost> From: "Davis Walker" To: Subject: Hey buddy, whats up Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:01:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C600BF.2D930080" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C600BF.2D930080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C600E1.490F0300-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 14 10:06:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmYDM-0008Cu-Ji for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:06:52 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07243 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmY8N-0009qS-QI for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:01:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmY8K-0009pk-C7 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:01:33 +0000 Received: from Puki.ogud.com (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBEF1RQM011771 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20051213191012.03bfda58@ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:36 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3lafur?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Gu=F0mundsson?= Subject: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk This message starts a Working Group Last Call on following document http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt The last call is scheduled to end on December 31'st 2005. This document defines a new digest algorithm for the DS record. The reason why this is needed is the degrading trust in SHA-1 algorithm currently used. The document is on standards track and is scheduled to be published as Proposed Standard. Please read this document and send statements of support/issues to the namedroppers mailing list or chairs. The chairs require that at least 5 people review and support this document. Olafur & Olaf -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 14 13:45:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmbdI-0003AS-6H for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:45:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08280 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:44:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmbaB-000ELn-1i for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:42:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Emba9-000ELU-Sf for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:42:30 +0000 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (pushme.nist.gov [129.6.16.92]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBEIgNDt009827 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:42:24 -0500 Received: from barnacle (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id jBEIfo3u006855 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:41:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Scott Rose" To: Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:41:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scottr@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think there is a typo in Section 3, second paragraph: "Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. THis behavior SHOULD be the default." Did the group decide on MUST, or SHOULD? Scott **************************************** Scott Rose Adv. Network Tech. Div., NIST +1 301-975-8439 https://www-x.antd.nist.gov/dnssec/ **************************************** -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From cejap@bargainhaggle.com Wed Dec 14 19:03:56 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmgbE-0004BR-Iz for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:03:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16098 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from 70-59-99-80.albq.qwest.net ([70.59.99.80] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmgcO-0007al-4f for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:05:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60134$fbbc8100$0100007f@localhost> From: "William Long" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:03:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60134.FBBC8100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60134.FBBC8100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60134.FBBC8100-- From eoghan.baird@aabirmalik.com Wed Dec 14 20:20:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Emhn5-0002NF-Tr for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:20:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA23247 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:18:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [209.182.124.186] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Emho0-0001tP-Je for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:21:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c6013f$58bd3480$0100007f@localhost> From: "Timothy Rodriguez" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:19:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6013F.58BD3480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6013F.58BD3480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 31 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 34 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 49 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6013F.58BD3480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6013F.58BD3480-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Dec 15 02:10:34 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmnG6-0006ga-Gi for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:10:34 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA24708 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmnAD-000Ooq-PM for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:04:29 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.154.224.1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EmnAA-000OoG-AP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:04:26 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:211:2fff:fed7:7378]) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jBF74NMQ097178 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:04:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <200510281617.j9SGHJm17042@tyrannia.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> References: <200510281617.j9SGHJm17042@tyrannia.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-28--443242901" Message-Id: <831599F8-F164-45D0-979B-36E67B514EF9@NLnetLabs.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Subject: Re: WGLC: Name Server Identifier Option Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:04:23 +0100 To: Namedroppers X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.1.1 (Tiger) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-28--443242901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear colleagues, There is consensus to publish this draft on the standards track, there have been sufficient reviewers, but there seems to be one issue that has not been completely resolved and that ended in a discussion between Rob and Peter. This is what Rob proposed: > If the WG would prefer that we just use an empty NSID option rather > than the SI flag bit, that's a simple change. > > Absent a specification for what non-empty NSID payload from client to > server would mean, I think it should be empty (name server MUST ignore > NSID payload, client MUST NOT/SHOULD NOT send NSID payload). If and > when the WG specifies what client->server payload looks like, how it's > supposed to work, etc, that specification can just update this one if > the WG concludes that reusing the NSID option is appropriate. I still > suspect that the client->server case is different enough that it > should be a separate option, but hey, I could be wrong. > The issue is whether to drop the SI flag and instead use the empty NSID OPTION as a signaling mechanism and MUST language for the server ignoring client NSID payload (as argued by Peter on the 28th of October). I propose that if nobody screams we declare that the consensus position is that we drop SI and use empty NSID, and specify MUST, publish 01, and push it to the IESG without a new last call. Scream within a couple of days if you do not agree with this declaration of consensus :-)... --Olaf Co-Chair. ----------------------------------------------------------- Olaf M. Kolkman NLnet Labs http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ --Apple-Mail-28--443242901 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: This message is locally signed. iD8DBQFDoRV3tN/ca3YJIocRAj9QAKDJLQRJBVkHGrgKg1NXPtOOVjPSAwCgkq+o 97xidVWPZO7P8RUwPEXkq3M= =FmQG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-28--443242901-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From dolf@alboraya.com Thu Dec 15 04:30:01 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmpR3-00075u-DU for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:30:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA08198 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:28:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from unused-64-111-138-85.unused.epix.net ([64.111.138.85] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmpS2-0001Q9-Se for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:31:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60183$bf644180$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jesse Price" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? 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Microsoft Window= s XP Professional *w/SP2*
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60266.7FC25600-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 16 09:25:39 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnGWh-0006ZZ-I0 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:25:39 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25153 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:24:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnGQd-0008c5-SS for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:19:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnGQd-0008bm-1a for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:19:23 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.117] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBGEJEwt029905; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:19:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:19:28 -0500 To: "Scott Rose" From: Edward Lewis Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk I realize this doesn't answer the question "did the group?": Isn't everything subject to local policy? (I think so.) For the sake of interoperability, is this important? (I don't think so.) Therefore I my opinion is that it should be SHOULD. As in a recommendation. At 13:41 -0500 12/14/05, Scott Rose wrote: >I think there is a typo in Section 3, second paragraph: > >"Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 >digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. THis >behavior SHOULD be the default." > >Did the group decide on MUST, or SHOULD? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 16 09:40:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnGkn-0001xh-2F for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:40:13 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA27672 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:39:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnGiP-000F46-2i for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:37:45 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [65.201.175.9] (helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnGiO-000F3k-24 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:37:44 +0000 Received: from [10.131.244.197] ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: PLAIN davidb, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-SHA) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:37:43 -0500 id 003C8D61.43A2D137.0000040E Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5D854F18-E3F8-4135-B090-B3A1255BD840@verisignlabs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Blacka Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:37:41 -0500 To: DNSEXT WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 16, 2005, at 9:19 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: > I realize this doesn't answer the question "did the group?": > > Isn't everything subject to local policy? (I think so.) > For the sake of interoperability, is this important? (I don't > think so.) > > Therefore I my opinion is that it should be SHOULD. As in a > recommendation. I agree. This is a recommendation, not a requirement. > At 13:41 -0500 12/14/05, Scott Rose wrote: >> I think there is a typo in Section 3, second paragraph: >> >> "Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs >> containing SHA-1 >> digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS >> RRset. THis >> behavior SHOULD be the default." >> >> Did the group decide on MUST, or SHOULD? > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > =-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis > +1-571-434-5468 > NeuStar > > 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle > down and > find a grocery store. > > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org > with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer VeriSign Applied Research -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 16 12:32:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnJRQ-0004Su-3O for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:32:25 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20128 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:31:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnJO4-000Okk-3v for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:28:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [128.185.15.110] (helo=hodur.linuxcowboy.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnJO2-000OkP-Qg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:28:55 +0000 Received: from osprey.the-paynes.com (leesburgva-bsr2-70-35-99-190.chvlva.adelphia.net [70.35.99.190]) by hodur.linuxcowboy.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jBGHSrdp009977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:28:53 -0500 Received: from osprey.the-paynes.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by osprey.the-paynes.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id jBGHSnX5026529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:28:49 -0500 Received: (from repayne@localhost) by osprey.the-paynes.com (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id jBGHSnii026528 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:28:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:57:44 -0500 From: Rob Payne To: DNSEXT WG Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Message-ID: <20051216165744.GA22908@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <5D854F18-E3F8-4135-B090-B3A1255BD840@verisignlabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5vNYLRcllDrimb99" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5D854F18-E3F8-4135-B090-B3A1255BD840@verisignlabs.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Use-Encryption: Encrypted email preferred (see www.gnupg.org) X-GnuPG-Keyid: DD6A3FA0 X-GnuPG-Fingerprint: 8CEF 75CB 5ADF 0F82 9EA3 0067 046A FC1B DD6A 3FA0 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 09:37:41AM -0500, David Blacka wrote: > On Dec 16, 2005, at 9:19 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: > >I realize this doesn't answer the question "did the group?": > >Isn't everything subject to local policy? (I think so.) > >For the sake of interoperability, is this important? (I don't =20 > >think so.) > >Therefore I my opinion is that it should be SHOULD. As in a =20 > >recommendation. > I agree. This is a recommendation, not a requirement. >=20 > >At 13:41 -0500 12/14/05, Scott Rose wrote: > >>I think there is a typo in Section 3, second paragraph: > >> > >>"Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs =20 > >>containing SHA-1 > >>digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS =20 > >>RRset. THis > >>behavior SHOULD be the default." > >> > >>Did the group decide on MUST, or SHOULD? For what it is worth, I have reviewed the document and believe that it is ready to progress once the language in Section 3 has been cleaned up as Ed and David suggest. -rob --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDovIHBGr8G91qP6ARApuBAJ9amYYTODKpGi7XUCr+lwNqy1i4VQCfcVPz BG8s6OipY3m3JhJOTriojN0= =MHXy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5vNYLRcllDrimb99-- -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 16 13:11:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnK31-0004zp-0d for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:11:15 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA25491 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 13:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnK0i-000FD9-7A for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:08:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [131.111.8.137] (helo=ppsw-7.csi.cam.ac.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnK0g-000FCw-VT for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:08:51 +0000 X-Cam-SpamDetails: Not scanned X-Cam-AntiVirus: No virus found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from virgo.cus.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.20]:52565) by ppsw-7.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.137]:25) with esmtp id 1EnK0S-0002yl-Mp (Exim 4.54) for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org (return-path ); Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:08:36 +0000 Received: from cet1 by virgo.cus.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1EnK0R-00029Z-VH for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:08:35 +0000 Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:08:35 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: from "Scott Rose" at Dec 14, 5 01:41:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Chris Thompson Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Rose wrote: > > I think there is a typo in Section 3, second paragraph: > > "Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 > digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. THis > behavior SHOULD be the default." > > Did the group decide on MUST, or SHOULD? Apart from that, the second sentence seems tautologous or contradictory (depending on whether the MUST/SHOULDs match or not). What is the intent of saying 1. Validator implementations MUST/SHOULD, by default, do X. 2. This behaviour MUST/SHOULD be the default. ? Is some subtlety about the distinction between "implementations" and "validator implementations" escaping me here? -- Chris Thompson Email: cet1@cam.ac.uk -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 16 15:45:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnMSh-0002U2-KZ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:45:55 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12226 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnMO6-000L0p-IC for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:41:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SBL, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.163.8.251] (helo=SMTP.Lamicro.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EnMO5-000L0a-I0 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:41:09 +0000 Received: from Spooler by SMTP.Lamicro.com (Mercury/32 v4.01b) ID MO0036F3; 16 Dec 2005 15:41:41 -0500 Received: from spooler by Lamicro.com (Mercury/32 v4.01b); 16 Dec 2005 15:41:28 -0500 Received: from connotech.com (209.71.204.120) by SMTP.Lamicro.com (Mercury/32 v4.01b) with ESMTP ID MG0036F2; 16 Dec 2005 15:41:22 -0500 Message-ID: <43A32E73.4070904@connotech.com> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:15:31 -0500 From: Thierry Moreau User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Revisions of I-D for TAKREM Trust Anchor Key Rollover Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all: I just submitted the revision -01 for the following two Internet Drafts: draft-moreau-dnsext-sdda-rr-01.txt -- The SEP DNSKEY Direct Authenticator DNS Resource Record (SDDA-RR) draft-moreau-dnsext-takrem-dns-01.txt -- The Trust Anchor Key Renewal Method Applied to DNS Security (TAKREM-DNSSEC) They are already available at http://www.connotech.com/draft-moreau-dnsext-sdda-rr-01.txt http://www.connotech.com/draft-moreau-dnsext-takrem-dns-01.txt Technical enhancements are present in the first draft (see the document revision history), the other revision is essentially for harmonization. Have a good reading, while we wait for a Trust Anchor Key Requirements document. 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60328.99C46D00-- From fauhb2@aloevitae.com Sat Dec 17 07:55:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Enbaa-000129-Oj for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:55:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA20113 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:54:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [81.198.3.159] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EnbcJ-0004XV-A8 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:56:57 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:54:52 +0200 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:54:52 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c60332$b6fe3900$0100007f@localhost> From: "Ethan Morgan" To: Subject: Don't be inadequate anymore! Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:54:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60332.B6FE3900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60332.B6FE3900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.leropard.net/pt/?46&jpuxff ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60332.B6FE3900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

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NamePatchesRegularNow
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60332.B6FE3900-- From kkenney11@investag.biz Sat Dec 17 08:50:31 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EncSF-0006Dh-2p for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 08:50:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA26136 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 08:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from softbank220012008102.bbtec.net ([220.12.8.102] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EncTx-0006RT-F9 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 08:52:24 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:50:23 +0900 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:50:23 +0900 Message-ID: <000001c6033a$d39e6f00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Esteban Miller" To: Subject: Other guys are improving themselves..are you? Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:50:23 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6033A.D39E6F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6033A.D39E6F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.leropard.net/pt/?46&jybutl ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6033A.D39E6F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

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NamePatchesRegularNow
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6033A.D39E6F00-- From takarlsen@8south.com Sat Dec 17 20:00:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnmuT-0002Ea-MW for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 20:00:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26908 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from c-67-190-19-93.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([67.190.19.93] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EnmwO-00006k-0i for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 20:02:20 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:07:20 -0700 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:07:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c60398$4e49a780$0100007f@localhost> From: "Bryan Stewart" To: Subject: Hey bro, found this site Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:07:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60398.4E49A780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60398.4E49A780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.leropard.net/pt/?46&ubqpuk ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60398.4E49A780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

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NamePatchesRegularNow
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60398.4E49A780-- From inge-eckhard@abesee.com Sat Dec 17 22:19:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Enp5R-0000MO-8Q for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:19:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA09337 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:18:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2018-ipad203souka.saitama.ocn.ne.jp ([222.145.45.18] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Enp7M-0003yk-MY for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:21:49 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:19:36 +0900 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:19:36 +0900 Message-ID: <000001c603ab$e0a77680$0100007f@localhost> From: "Ramon Garcia" To: Subject: Wow check out this huge enlargement patch sale! Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:19:36 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C603AB.E0A77680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C603AB.E0A77680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.leropard.net/pt/?46&tqomx ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C603AB.E0A77680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

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NamePatchesRegularNow
Steel Package10 Patches$79.95$49.95Free shipping
Silver Package25 Patches$129.95$99.95Free shipping and exercise manual included
Gold Package40 Patches$189.95$149.95Free shipping and exercise manual included
Platinum Package65 Patches$259.95$199.95Free shipping and exercise manual included
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C603AB.E0A77680-- From carolynmoffett@bekannt.com Sun Dec 18 16:40:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eo6Gt-0008IL-Vf for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:40:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26134 for ; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from 83-158-129-52.dsl.tiscali.fr ([83.158.129.52] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Eo6Iy-0006Zu-4J for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:42:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60445$b3a7a200$0100007f@localhost> From: "Zachary Clark" To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:40:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60445.B3A7A200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60445.B3A7A200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 31 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 45 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 44 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60445.B3A7A200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

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  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
    Microsoft
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
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Average Customer Review: 3D"5
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Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C604A6.247EA680-- From kaserk@bagnocarla89.com Mon Dec 19 04:12:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EoH4T-0006Ht-Su for openpgp-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:12:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11776 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:11:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from 59.138.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp ([220.210.138.59] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EoH6b-0004LK-Pi for openpgp-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:14:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c604a5$eb463680$0100007f@localhost> From: "Theodore Reed" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:12:05 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C604A5.EB463680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C604A5.EB463680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 45 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 48 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 37 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C604A5.EB463680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C604A5.EB463680-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 19 14:27:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EoQfC-000810-V2 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:27:15 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00906 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EoQZJ-000Hcr-46 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:21:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, INFO_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [207.219.45.62] (helo=mail.libertyrms.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EoQZI-000HOp-4g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:21:08 +0000 Received: from dba3.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.3.12] helo=dba3.int.libertyrms.info ident=postfix) by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1EoQZE-00049a-ML; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:21:04 -0500 Received: by dba3.int.libertyrms.info (ca.afilias.info, from userid 1019) id 3864713744; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:21:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:21:01 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: Scott Rose Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Message-ID: <20051219192100.GK29485@dba3> Reply-To: Andrew Sullivan References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: andrew@ca.afilias.info X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 01:41:50PM -0500, Scott Rose wrote: > I think there is a typo in Section 3, second paragraph: > > "Validator implementations MUST, by default, ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 > digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. THis > behavior SHOULD be the default." > > Did the group decide on MUST, or SHOULD? My understanding of the discussion was that we agreed that the default needs to be SHA-256, but that this is ultimately a policy decision, so operators need to have the ability to instead prefer SHA-1 if they want. Some of us were arguing that this entailed the SHOULD formulation; at least one person argued that such a weakness is too great, and wanted the MUST formulation. Since this is just a default setting requirement, I can't see that it makes any difference, in light of the sentence following the "SHOULD be the default": Validator implementations MAY provide configuration settings that allow network operators to specify preference policy when validating multiple DS records containing different digest types. So I don't care which one we settle on, as long as the requirement doesn't get any stronger such that it alters the ability for operators to do something else, if they have to. A -- ---- Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street Afilias Canada Toronto, Ontario Canada M2P 2A8 +1 416 646 3304 x4110 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From CaseySeals@meekmp.com Mon Dec 19 14:54:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EoR61-0005G8-Cu for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:54:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04189; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from dxq62.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.22.102.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EoR8A-0002R7-Ok; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:57:15 -0500 Received: from 0Mu@localhost by jjC.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:26:24 -0300 Message-ID: <76kyKRY2z2OdC9diKJ9KpoqX@michaelshometeam.com> From: "Daphne Robertson" Reply-To: "Daphne Robertson" To: droyer@ietf.org, rfc-editor@ietf.org, v6tc@ietf.org, dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95, Office 2003 $69.95 Systemworks Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:33:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: CaseySeals@meekmp.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--9463348921532646" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 j5x ----9463348921532646 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C605DC.1C288780-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 21 05:19:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ep13m-0001NZ-H2 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 05:19:02 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA19937 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 05:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ep0uw-000GMR-Nq for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:09:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [202.214.123.16] (helo=ns.64translator.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ep0uv-000GME-E1 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:09:53 +0000 Received: from bahamas.64translator.com ([10.21.32.3]) by ns.64translator.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBLA9pmO062959 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:09:51 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com) Received: from thinkpad.64translator.com (dhcp248.64translator.com [10.21.32.248]) by bahamas.64translator.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jBLA9gl2076514 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:09:44 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:08:22 +0900 From: Hideshi Enokihara To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [Question] RRSet should only be included once in any DNS reply Message-Id: <20051221190822.43daaa9d.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have a question regarding the following RFC's description. --------------------- 5.5. Sending RRSets (reprise) A Resource Record Set should only be included once in any DNS reply. It may occur in any of the Answer, Authority, or Additional Information sections, as required. However it should not be repeated in the same, or any other, section, except where explicitly required by a specification. For example, an AXFR response requires the SOA record (always an RRSet containing a single RR) be both the first and last record of the reply. Where duplicates are required this way, the TTL transmitted in each case must be the same. ---------------------- Does this description suggest that it is called "RRset" even if one RR included in answer? If so, following example responses should be like "Correct Answer1" and "Correct Answer2" -------example 1----------- Question section QNAME = NS.example.org QTYPE = A ANSWER section NAME = NS.example.org TYPE = A ADDRESS = 192.168.1.40 AUTHORITY section NAME = example.org TYPE = NS NSDNAME = NS.example.org ADDITIONAL section NAME = NS.example.org TYPE = A ADDRESS = 192.168.1.40 *Should not include additional section. (Because ANSWER section's RR and ADDITIONAL section's RR overlap) so, correct answer is like following. ----Correct Answer1 (for example 1)--- Question section QNAME = NS.example.org QTYPE = A ANSWER section NAME = NS.example.org TYPE = A ADDRESS = 192.168.1.40 AUTHORITY section NAME = example.org TYPE = NS NSDNAME = NS.example.org -------example 2----------- Question section QNAME = example.org QTYPE = NS ANSWER section NAME = example.org TYPE = NS NSDNAME = NS.example.org AUTHORITY section NAME = example.org TYPE = NS NSDNAME = NS.example.org ADDITIONAL section NAME = NS.example.org TYPE = A ADDRESS = 192.168.1.40 *Should not include authority section. (Because ANSWER section's RR and AUTHORITY section's RR overlap) so, correct answer is like following. ----Correct Answer2 (for example 2)--- Question section QNAME = example.org QTYPE = NS ANSWER section NAME = example.org TYPE = NS NSDNAME = NS.example.org ADDITIONAL section NAME = NS.example.org TYPE = A ADDRESS = 192.168.1.40 Is my understanding correct? Please teach me. Best Regards, -- ************************************* Hideshi Enokihara IPv6 Business Network & Software Development Dept. Yokogawa Electric Corporation -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Dec 21 09:50:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ep5I2-00072t-9q for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:50:02 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA22598 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:48:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ep5Da-000Au7-6J for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:45:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.55.12.40] (helo=ll.mit.edu) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ep5DZ-000Atr-26 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:45:25 +0000 Received: (from smtp@localhost) by ll.mit.edu (8.12.10/8.8.8) id jBLEjJUJ019884 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:45:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from UNKNOWN( ), claiming to be "[192.5.135.97]" via SMTP by llmail, id smtpdAAAq4aGPM; Wed Dec 21 09:45:14 2005 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913 Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:52 -0500 Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 From: "Stuart E. Schechter" To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051213191012.03bfda58@ogud.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have reviewed and support this document. As for whether a validator SHOULD or MUST ignore SHA1 digests when SHA-256 are present, perhaps the "security considerations" section could discuss the downgrade attack on validators that accept SHA1 digests when SHA-256 digests are present? Should the pair of colons following "The DNSKEY Record" in 2.3 be one colon, or is this an IETF convention with which I as a newbie am unfamiliar= ? One very minor editing nit-pick -- the words "of course" in the security considerations are superfluous and distracting. This isn't a show stopper and I'm fine if Wes doesn't want to change it. I just feel that if we trul= y believed the statement was obvious to all possible readers it wouldn't be worth including. Putting the "of course" only makes things harder to read. Best Stuart > From: =C3=93lafur Gu=E2=80=BAmundsson > Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:36 -0500 > To: > Subject: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 >=20 >=20 > This message starts a Working Group Last Call on following document > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt >=20 > The last call is scheduled to end on December 31'st 2005. >=20 > This document defines a new digest algorithm for the DS record. > The reason why this is needed is the degrading trust in SHA-1 > algorithm currently used. >=20 > The document is on standards track and is scheduled to be published as > Proposed Standard. >=20 > Please read this document and send statements of support/issues to > the namedroppers mailing list or chairs. > The chairs require that at least 5 people review and support this documen= t. >=20 > Olafur & Olaf =20 >=20 >=20 > -- > to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with > the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. > archive: >=20 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From MarcelLooney@mincircfacile.com Wed Dec 21 23:58:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EpIX4-0007ov-67 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:58:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA26586; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:57:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EpIZl-0004BG-RP; Thu, 22 Dec 2005 00:01:16 -0500 Received: from cpe0050dad13207-cm014310113607.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com ([72.142.57.125] helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EpIWu-00034h-Dm; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:58:17 -0500 Received: from eBap@localhost by Jgk.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 22 Dec 2005 00:31:30 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kendall Butler" Reply-To: "Kendall Butler" To: droyer@ietf.org Cc: rfc-editor@ietf.org, v6tc@ietf.org, dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 Windows XP Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:34:30 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: MarcelLooney@mincircfacile.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--697949712229591896" X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 J6R0 ----697949712229591896 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable S
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----697949712229591896-- From fedeeluce.itali@ambientiweb.com Thu Dec 22 20:08:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EpbQ2-0003WO-Rj for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:08:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05310 for ; Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [201.144.216.141] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EpbSv-0003sM-0O for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:11:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60787$5d10cf80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Michael Davis" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 02:08:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60787.5D10CF80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60787.5D10CF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 43 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 39 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 39 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60787.5D10CF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60787.5D10CF80-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Dec 24 21:11:34 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EqLME-0001fU-H6 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:11:34 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17127 for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EqLH0-000K7q-QL for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 02:06:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.188.136.8] (helo=motgate8.mot.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EqLGz-000K7d-NL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 02:06:09 +0000 Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id jBP2JdvE019915 for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:19:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jBP2G6s1004641 for ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:16:07 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:06:07 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13DEE9@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:06:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Hi, To make it easier to review these drafts, I have wdiff'ed them against the RFCs they propose to obsolete. The results are available at http://www.pothole.com/~dee3/. As described below, these are simple update RFCs and I would appreciate people looking at them. Thanks, Donald -----Original Message----- From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:23 PM To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis Hi, As you might guess form the version numbers these drafts have been around for a fairly long time. The previous RFCs were tied to the SIG and KEY RRs only and reference only the old DNSSEC RFCs. The idea is that these updates are part of DNSSEC updating. As far as I know, there isn't any technical difference between the RDATA format in these drafts and in the RFCs they update. There is a minor technical addition in draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-06.txt which has an additional pre-defined D-H group taken from IPSEC (and probably there are 1 or more further additional D-H groups specified in IPSEC or other IETF protocols that should be added). ... -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From jwjrvs@bellinirestaurant.com Sun Dec 25 11:34:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EqYp0-0006pG-NY for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 11:34:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28550 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 11:33:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from p84c294.hrsmnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp ([210.132.194.148] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EqYsT-0004rT-2t for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 11:37:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c6099b$054ab200$0100007f@localhost> From: "Kaleb Murphy" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 01:33:49 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6099B.054AB200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6099B.054AB200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6099B.054AB200-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Dec 25 18:15:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eqf5b-0007N7-Ng for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:15:43 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02796 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:14:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqeyo-000J9D-MC for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:08:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.188.136.7] (helo=motgate7.mot.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqeyl-000J8v-TA for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:08:40 +0000 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com ([10.64.251.234]) by motgate7.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id jBPNYTvB027562 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 16:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jBPNH5EH021576 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 17:17:05 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:08:36 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13DF13@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:08:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support this document; however, I believe it should also reference = draft-eastlake-sha2-*.txt which has source code for SHA-256 (currently = -00 but about to be updated to -01). Thanks, Donald -----Original Message----- From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of =D3lafur = Gu=F0mundsson Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:02 AM To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256=20 This message starts a Working Group Last Call on following document = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt The last call is scheduled to end on December 31'st 2005. This document defines a new digest algorithm for the DS record. The reason why this is needed is the degrading trust in SHA-1 algorithm = currently used. The document is on standards track and is scheduled to be published as = Proposed Standard. Please read this document and send statements of support/issues to the = namedroppers mailing list or chairs. The chairs require that at least 5 people review and support this = document. Olafur & Olaf =09 -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with = the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From mercier@57house.com Sun Dec 25 22:48:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EqjLv-00034i-DU for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 22:48:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27384 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 22:47:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcp0011238252pcs.flint01.mi.comcast.net ([69.246.74.234] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EqjPQ-0007wM-UI for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 22:52:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c609f9$39ed5680$0100007f@localhost> From: "Morgan Phillips" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 22:48:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C609F9.39ED5680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C609F9.39ED5680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C609F9.39ED5680-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 06:12:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EqqH2-0004x6-LP for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:12:16 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA03943 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 06:11:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EqqBg-000842-Qk for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:06:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [202.214.123.16] (helo=ns.64translator.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EqqBf-00083f-MB for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:06:44 +0000 Received: from bahamas.64translator.com ([10.21.32.3]) by ns.64translator.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBQB6fkk084457 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:06:42 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com) Received: from thinkpad.64translator.com (dhcp248.64translator.com [10.21.32.248]) by bahamas.64translator.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jBQB6X2v029969 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:06:34 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:05:06 +0900 From: Hideshi Enokihara To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? Message-Id: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I want to confirm regarding the following RFC2308's description. --------- 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) Dead / Unreachable servers are servers that fail to respond in any way to a query or where the transport layer has provided an indication that the server does not exist or is unreachable. A server may be deemed to be dead or unreachable if it has not responded to an outstanding query within 120 seconds. Examples of transport layer indications are: ICMP error messages indicating host, net or port unreachable. TCP resets IP stack error messages providing similar indications to those above. A server MAY cache a dead server indication. If it does so it MUST NOT be deemed dead for longer than five (5) minutes. The indication MUST be stored against query tuple unless there was a transport layer indication that the server does not exist, in which case it applies to all queries to that specific IP address. ----------- Last sentence says, "A server MAY cache a dead server indication.". I think that "server" should be "resolver"(This "resolver" include a client that have caching function.) in this sentence. Because section 7.1 says, ----------- 7.1 Server Failure (OPTIONAL) Server failures fall into two major classes. The first is where a server can determine that it has been misconfigured for a zone. This may be where it has been listed as a server, but not configured to be a server for the zone, or where it has been configured to be a server for the zone, but cannot obtain the zone data for some reason. This can occur either because the zone file does not exist or contains errors, or because another server from which the zone should have been available either did not respond or was unable or unwilling to supply the zone. The second class is where the server needs to obtain an answer from elsewhere, but is unable to do so, due to network failures, other servers that don't reply, or return server failure errors, or similar. In either case a resolver MAY cache a server failure response. If it does so it MUST NOT cache it for longer than five (5) minutes, and it MUST be cached against the specific query tuple . ------------- Last sentence use "a resolver". This sentence indicate a server and a client with the caching function may cache a server failure response, right? Is my understanding right? Best Regards, -- ************************************* Hideshi Enokihara IPv6 Business Network & Software Development Dept. Yokogawa Electric Corporation -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 15:37:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eqz6L-00016z-MA for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:37:49 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00587 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:36:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqz11-000KgB-AJ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:32:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqz10-000Kfy-Di for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:32:18 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 9B7B511D3F2; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:32:13 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Edward Lewis Cc: "Scott Rose" , Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Organization: Sparta References: Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:32:13 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Edward Lewis's message of "Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:19:28 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:19:28 -0500, Edward Lewis said: Edward> I realize this doesn't answer the question "did the group?": Edward> Isn't everything subject to local policy? (I think so.) For Edward> the sake of interoperability, is this important? (I don't Edward> think so.) Edward> Therefore I my opinion is that it should be SHOULD. As in a Edward> recommendation. Ed, I think the wording issues that Chris pointed out were the real issue. Thus the new text I think fixes your problems: Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. This behavior SHOULD be the default. Validator implementations MAY provide configuration settings that allow network operators to specify preference policy when validating multiple DS records containing different digest types. It was unclear from both you and David if the MUST you had issues with was in relation to the ability or the default (since the original sentence sort of implied both). The above means the ability must be there (which I think the WG previously agreed upon) but only SHOULD be on by default and MAY be configurable. That actually leaves room for implementations to do whatever they want (which I'm not sure is good since they can prefer SHA-1 over SHA-256 without configuration to do otherwise, but hey...) -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 15:37:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eqz6N-00018V-1C for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:37:51 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00593 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:36:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqz3T-000L2V-NL for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:34:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqz3T-000L2B-6e for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:34:51 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 20E5611D3F2; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:34:47 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: "Stuart E. Schechter" Cc: Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 Organization: Sparta References: Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:34:46 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Stuart E. Schechter's message of "Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:52 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:52 -0500, "Stuart E. Schechter" said: Stuart> Should the pair of colons following "The DNSKEY Record" in 2.3 Stuart> be one colon, or is this an IETF convention with which I as a Stuart> newbie am unfamiliar? nope, it's a typo. fixed. Stuart> One very minor editing nit-pick -- the words "of course" in Stuart> the security considerations are superfluous and distracting. I (at least) agree. Removed. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 15:43:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EqzBZ-0001jX-9P for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:43:13 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00955 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:42:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqz7E-000Lh8-Co for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:38:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Eqz7D-000Lgd-RP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:38:43 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 5F4EC11D3F2; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 Organization: Sparta References: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13DF13@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:38:39 -0800 In-Reply-To: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13DF13@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> (Eastlake III Donald-LDE's message of "Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:08:32 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:08:32 -0500, Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 said: Eastlake> I support this document; however, I believe it should also Eastlake> reference draft-eastlake-sha2-*.txt which has source code Eastlake> for SHA-256 (currently -00 but about to be updated to -01). (I'm interested in other people's opinions) Questions: Whats the timeline status for this document? Is it near completion (on the order of weeks) or do you expect to have it advance by when? What track is it on? Personal submission as informative? If the working group wants this, should to be informative or normative? I think informative is right here (as the code reference isn't required, unlike the spec reference which must be understood). -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 15:52:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EqzK7-0002gL-Jv for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:52:03 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01888 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:50:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EqzHj-000Nbe-D5 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:49:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EqzHi-000NbK-9H for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:49:34 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id BB04011D3F2; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:49:29 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: "Stuart E. Schechter" Cc: Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 Organization: Sparta References: Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:49:29 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Stuart E. Schechter's message of "Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:52 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:52 -0500, "Stuart E. Schechter" said: Stuart> As for whether a validator SHOULD or MUST ignore SHA1 digests Stuart> when SHA-256 are present, perhaps the "security Stuart> considerations" section could discuss the downgrade attack on Stuart> validators that accept SHA1 digests when SHA-256 digests are Stuart> present? Something like the following would-be-new paragraph:? If algorithms of different perceived strengths are both used, and if validators allow for either to indicate that the child zone's DNSKEY is the one being referred to then downgrade attacks are possible. For example, if the following conditions are all true: - Both SHA-1 and SHA-256 based digests are published in DS records within a parent zone for a given child zone's DNSKEY. - The DS record with the SHA-1 digest matches the digest computed using the child zone's DNSKEY. - The DS record with the SHA-256 digest fails to match the signature computed using the child zone's DNSKEY Then if the validator accepts the above situation as secure then this can be used as a downgrade attack since the stronger SHA-256 digest is ignored. I won't insert it, however, unless there are other WG members that agree it is sufficient and needed. I suspect there will be support for something like this though. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 17:09:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Er0Wy-00040p-2f for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 17:09:26 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA09484 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 17:08:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er0Tt-0008e6-EF for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 22:06:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [212.9.189.167] (helo=mail.enyo.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er0Ts-0008dU-GK for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 22:06:12 +0000 Received: from deneb.vpn.enyo.de ([212.9.189.177] helo=deneb.enyo.de) by mail.enyo.de with esmtp id 1Er0Tn-00043Z-Fl; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:06:07 +0100 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Er0Tl-0003uf-DR; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:06:05 +0100 From: Florian Weimer To: Hideshi Enokihara Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:06:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> (Hideshi Enokihara's message of "Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:05:06 +0900") Message-ID: <871wzzcy42.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk * Hideshi Enokihara: > Is my understanding right? I think so. If there aren't any objections, you should bring this issue to the RFC Editor's attention, so that it can be included in the errata. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From maria_ralph@aliina.com Mon Dec 26 20:59:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Er487-0005CS-JJ for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:59:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02406 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:58:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from adsl-147-85-71.bhm.bellsouth.net ([72.147.85.71] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Er4Bn-0005Zj-2E for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 21:03:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60ab3$21da0d80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Kyle Cooper" To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:59:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60AB3.21DA0D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60AB3.21DA0D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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----52299377177665957418-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 23:39:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Er6c7-0007qH-Kq for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:39:07 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA16969 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er6Yc-000FFh-IP for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:35:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [65.201.175.9] (helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er6Yb-000FF5-Iy for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:35:29 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.13] ([::ffff:69.255.36.218]) (AUTH: PLAIN davidb, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-SHA) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:35:28 -0500 id 0060C034.43B0C490.00005877 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> Cc: Edward Lewis , "Scott Rose" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Blacka Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:36:41 -0500 To: Wes Hardaker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 26, 2005, at 3:32 PM, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:19:28 -0500, Edward Lewis >>>>>> said: > > Edward> I realize this doesn't answer the question "did the group?": > > Edward> Isn't everything subject to local policy? (I think so.) For > Edward> the sake of interoperability, is this important? (I don't > Edward> think so.) > > Edward> Therefore I my opinion is that it should be SHOULD. As in a > Edward> recommendation. > > Ed, I think the wording issues that Chris pointed out were the real > issue. Thus the new text I think fixes your problems: > > Validator implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs > containing SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are > present in the DS RRset. This behavior SHOULD be the default. > Validator implementations MAY provide configuration settings > that allow network operators to specify preference policy when > validating multiple DS records containing different digest > types. > > It was unclear from both you and David if the MUST you had issues with > was in relation to the ability or the default (since the original > sentence sort of implied both). The above means the ability must be > there (which I think the WG previously agreed upon) but only SHOULD be > on by default and MAY be configurable. That actually leaves room for > implementations to do whatever they want (which I'm not sure is good > since they can prefer SHA-1 over SHA-256 without configuration to do > otherwise, but hey...) The use of MUST means that, if an implementation doesn't do the thing, something Will Not Work. All of this language is about preferring SHA-256 to SHA-1. This is a Good Idea, but none of this is necessary for interoperability. Thus, SHOULD or RECOMMENDED is the appropriate level for the entire paragraph. -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer Verisign Applied Research -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 23:52:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Er6ow-0001Um-Pl for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:52:22 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18453 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:51:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er6mv-000GFs-OZ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:50:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [144.189.100.102] (helo=motgate4.mot.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er6mt-000GFc-CW for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:50:15 +0000 Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate4.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate4) with ESMTP id jBR50q89005326 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 22:00:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr01.mot.com (8.13.5/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jBR55wE4015370 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:05:59 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:50:12 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13DFA1@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 To: Wes Hardaker , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:50:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk draft-eastlake-sha2 is indeed a personal submission targeted for Informational, like RFC 3174. I'm fine with the reference being Informative. The FIPS document is the normative specification of the algorithm. I believe that it is, indeed, near completion and I will be uploaded an updated draft in a day or two. Due to the problems with SHA-1, I believe it will be given some priority even though it is an individual submission. Thanks, Donald -----Original Message----- From: Wes Hardaker [mailto:hardaker@tislabs.com] Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:39 PM To: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: DS SHA-256 >>>>> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:08:32 -0500, Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 said: Eastlake> I support this document; however, I believe it should also Eastlake> reference draft-eastlake-sha2-*.txt which has source code for Eastlake> SHA-256 (currently -00 but about to be updated to -01). (I'm interested in other people's opinions) Questions: Whats the timeline status for this document? Is it near completion (on the order of weeks) or do you expect to have it advance by when? What track is it on? Personal submission as informative? If the working group wants this, should to be informative or normative? I think informative is right here (as the code reference isn't required, unlike the spec reference which must be understood). -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Dec 26 23:58:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Er6vJ-0002eC-O5 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:58:57 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18903 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er6ts-000Gme-1Z for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:57:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [202.214.123.16] (helo=ns.64translator.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er6tp-000GmI-2T for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:57:25 +0000 Received: from bahamas.64translator.com ([10.21.32.3]) by ns.64translator.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBR4u1qd088147; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:56:01 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com) Received: from thinkpad.64translator.com (dhcp248.64translator.com [10.21.32.248]) by bahamas.64translator.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id jBR4tqb2037937; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:55:52 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:54:24 +0900 From: Hideshi Enokihara To: Florian Weimer Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [Editorial issue] Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? Message-Id: <20051227135424.3349c688.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> In-Reply-To: <871wzzcy42.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <871wzzcy42.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for your reply. On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:06:05 +0100 Florian Weimer wrote: > * Hideshi Enokihara: > > > Is my understanding right? > > I think so. If there aren't any objections, you should bring this > issue to the RFC Editor's attention, so that it can be included in the > errata. O.K. I wait other person's opinion for a while. If there are not any objections, I report this issue to the RFC Editor's attention. Thanks, -- ************************************* Hideshi Enokihara IPv6 Business Network & Software Development Dept. Yokogawa Electric Corporation -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 01:20:58 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Er8Cg-0005wB-L1 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:20:58 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA26932 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:19:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er8AA-000LO9-3c for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 06:18:22 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Er8A9-000LNy-DT for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 06:18:21 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 3E89611D3F2; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 22:18:16 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: David Blacka Cc: Edward Lewis , "Scott Rose" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Organization: Sparta References: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 22:18:15 -0800 In-Reply-To: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> (David Blacka's message of "Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:36:41 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:36:41 -0500, David Blacka said: David> The use of MUST means that, if an implementation doesn't do the David> thing, something Will Not Work. All of this language is about David> preferring SHA-256 to SHA-1. This is a Good Idea, but none of this David> is necessary for interoperability. Thus, SHOULD or RECOMMENDED is David> the appropriate level for the entire paragraph. There is a really large number of RFCs that have MUSTs for security related things. That's because without them, security Will Not Work (which then affects interoperability). IMHO, it should stay as a MUST. But... I of course will follow the consensus of the group. Though in this case I think we're not that close to the point where an attack is actually executable against SHA-1... -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From temisf@bargains2ski.com Tue Dec 27 04:20:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErB0h-0003YE-Dp for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:20:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA15289 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from dslb-084-056-100-244.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.56.100.244] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ErB4S-0002Zm-QM for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 04:24:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60af0$b878ef80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Micah Johnson" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B0E.8D04FD80-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 08:43:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErF79-0003Gk-QG for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:43:44 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA18612 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:42:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErF0W-000L7A-UA for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:36:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.244.168.210] (helo=outpost.ds9a.nl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErF0U-000L6q-8d for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:36:50 +0000 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 14F044535; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:36:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:36:40 +0100 From: bert hubert To: Hideshi Enokihara Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? Message-ID: <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 08:05:06PM +0900, Hideshi Enokihara wrote: > 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) (...) > A server MAY cache a dead server indication. If it does so it MUST > NOT be deemed dead for longer than five (5) minutes. The indication > MUST be stored against query tuple IP address> unless there was a transport layer indication that the > server does not exist, in which case it applies to all queries to > that specific IP address. For what it's worth, I consider this section to be meddling. It turns out differing 'dead/unreachable' strategies have differing merits, this should not be set in stone. I missed the standardisation process, but maybe somebody cares. The PowerDNS recursor reserves the right to tune its server selection process regardless of this RFC. -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 09:28:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErFoR-0002N0-Uq for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:28:28 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24090 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:27:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErFki-000OOB-7m for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:24:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErFkf-000ONv-Ii for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:24:33 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.53] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBREOI8F025564; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:24:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:25:11 -0500 To: Wes Hardaker From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Cc: David Blacka , Edward Lewis , "Scott Rose" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 22:18 -0800 12/26/05, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:36:41 -0500, David Blacka >>>>>> said: > >David> The use of MUST means that, if an implementation doesn't do the >David> thing, something Will Not Work. All of this language is about >David> preferring SHA-256 to SHA-1. This is a Good Idea, but none of this >David> is necessary for interoperability. Thus, SHOULD or RECOMMENDED is >David> the appropriate level for the entire paragraph. > >There is a really large number of RFCs that have MUSTs for security >related things. That's because without them, security Will Not Work >(which then affects interoperability). > >IMHO, it should stay as a MUST. But... I of course will follow the >consensus of the group. > >Though in this case I think we're not that close to the point where an >attack is actually executable against SHA-1... I agree with David. The action of validation isn't an interoperability question. Either a node will do its own or it will be blindly reliant on another to perform the function (that whole AD bit issue). I cringe when I hear "security will not work" because I have never once heard from a seasoned security practioner "if you do things this way, you will be secure." After spending a lot of time around security people, I have come to believe that security is "the goal that can not be achieved, no matter how much one works at it." I wouldn't be surprised if, in 5 years, I hear that SHA-256 is beaten and now SHA-1 is more secure. Ultimately, I think it is a mistake for any protocol defining document or algorithm defining document to ever make a MUST out of its use or to make statements about the algorithm's "rank" amongst its peers. Whether the subject of a document is in force should be left to an operational profile document. Profiles are much easier to alter, say, to remove the broken SHA-256 when the time comes and replace it with SHA-256-and-a-half if the definitions for those two stick just to their definition. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 09:48:29 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErG7p-00054s-5E for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:48:29 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25691 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:47:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErG5T-000Pwk-BD for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:46:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [65.201.175.9] (helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErG5S-000PwX-DC for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:46:02 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.13] ([::ffff:69.255.36.218]) (AUTH: PLAIN davidb, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-SHA) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:46:01 -0500 id 0060C014.43B153A9.000070F3 In-Reply-To: References: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <844906B6-3EC9-452D-BBBB-DE7A253001FE@verisignlabs.com> Cc: Edward Lewis , "Scott Rose" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: David Blacka Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:47:15 -0500 To: Wes Hardaker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 27, 2005, at 1:18 AM, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:36:41 -0500, David Blacka >>>>>> said: > > David> The use of MUST means that, if an implementation doesn't do the > David> thing, something Will Not Work. All of this language is about > David> preferring SHA-256 to SHA-1. This is a Good Idea, but none > of this > David> is necessary for interoperability. Thus, SHOULD or > RECOMMENDED is > David> the appropriate level for the entire paragraph. > > There is a really large number of RFCs that have MUSTs for security > related things. That's because without them, security Will Not Work > (which then affects interoperability). True. > IMHO, it should stay as a MUST. But... I of course will follow the > consensus of the group. Ok, let me step back a little. Part of what I'm arguing is that the paragraph, as currently constructed just isn't using MUST in an appropriate way. Statements like "client MUST have feature X, SHOULD use feature X, but MAY choose not to" directly translate to "SHOULD use feature X". The sentence "...implementations MUST be able to ignore DS RRs..." is not meaningful in a protocol document. Or, in other words, pure software requirements have no place in a protocol document. The document can say one of two things: a) validators MUST ignore SHA-1 DSs when SHA-256 DS are present, or b) validators SHOULD ignore SHA1-1 DSs ... Currently, your paragraph is actually saying b. My previous arguments were that b is the correct choice. > Though in this case I think we're not that close to the point where an > attack is actually executable against SHA-1... Which is at least partly why b is the correct choice. So, to conclude, I suggest that your paragraph just boil down to: Validator implementations SHOULD ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. -- David Blacka Sr. Engineer Verisign Applied Research -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 10:46:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErH1v-0006cP-6y for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:46:27 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03258 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:45:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErGzf-0004Hu-RQ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:44:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [203.174.79.139] (helo=zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErGze-0004Hf-LZ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:44:06 +0000 Received: from zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jBRFi5U4002574 for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:44:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from zex001-0m9005.jp.ykgw.net (zex001-0m9005.jp.ykgw.net [10.0.11.15]) by zns001-0m9002.yokogawa.co.jp (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jBRFi58H002569 for ; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:44:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from [10.0.69.41] ([10.0.69.41]) by zex001-0m9005.jp.ykgw.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:44:04 +0900 Message-ID: <43B16144.5050505@jp.yokogawa.com> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:44:04 +0900 From: Nobumichi Ozoe User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: ja, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [Reminder] 8th TAHI IPv6 Interoperability Test Event Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Dec 2005 15:44:05.0033 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DEA9990:01C60AFC] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, # sorry if you received multiple times of this kind of email. TAHI Projcet is organizing its 8th TAHI IPv6 Interoperability Test Event. The event will be held from 23th - 27th January 2006 at the Makuhari messe of Chiba Japan. Registration deadline is 31 December 2005. http://www.tahi.org/inop/8thinterop.html In this test event, we will prepare the following tests of the client and the server for DNS; o conformance test o interoperability test Please refer the following URL about detailed test coverage. http://www.tahi.org/dns/ Best regards, -- Nobumichi Ozoe IPv6 Business Network & Software Development Dept. Yokogawa Electric Corporation E-mail: Nobumichi.Ozoe@jp.yokogawa.com URL: http://www.yokogawa.com/ -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 10:54:33 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErH9l-0007yn-QD for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:54:33 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04546 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:53:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErH7s-0004zR-KF for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:52:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [144.189.100.103] (helo=motgate3.mot.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErH7q-0004z9-6N for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:52:34 +0000 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (az33exr03.mot.com [10.64.251.233]) by motgate3.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate3) with ESMTP id jBRGATe6025969 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jBRG4IwA007920 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:04:18 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:52:27 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13E167@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis (draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc 2536bis-dsa-06.txt) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:52:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk I support this document, with the change indicated below and with nits fixed, to update the security RR and other references. (This is a relatively old draft first posted before a lot of the recent increase in format stringency. I have appended a list of nit fixes to the end of this message. You can see a wdiff of this draft with the RFC it updates at http://www.pothole.com/~dee3/.) Thanks, Donald ========================================================= Donald E. Eastlake III Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com Motorola Laboratories +1-508-786-7554 (work) 111 Locke Drive +1-508-634-2066 (home) Marlboro, MA 01752 USA -----Original Message----- From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:17 PM Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2536bis-dsa-06.txt The only change I would make is to make a reference to the current key types. When DSA public keys are stored in the DNS, the structure of the relevant part of the RDATA part of the RR being used is the fields listed below in the order given. When DSA public keys are stored in the DNS, the structure of the relevant part of the RDATA part of the RR (currently KEY and DNSKEY) being used is the fields listed below in the order given. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org idnits 1.84 tmp/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2536bis-dsa-06.txt: Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html: Checking conformance with RFC 3978/3979 boilerplate... * Found RFC 3978 Section 5.4 paragraph 1 boilerplate (on line 217), which is fine, but *also* found RFC 2026 Section 10.4C paragraph 1 boilerplate on line 47. It should be removed. * The document seems to lack an RFC 3979 Section 5, para 1 IPR Disclosure Acknowledgement. * The document seems to lack an RFC 3979 Section 5, para 2 IPR Disclosure Acknowledgement. * The document seems to lack an RFC 3979 Section 5, para 3 IPR Disclosure Invitation. * There is 1 instance of too long lines in the document, the longest one being 2 characters in excess of 72. Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt: * The document seems to lack a 1id_guidelines paragraph about 6 months document validity -- however, there's a paragraph with a matching beginning. Boilerplate error? Miscellaneous warnings: - The "Author's Address" (or "Authors' Addresses") section title is misspelled. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From kmyers89@alaskacool.com Tue Dec 27 11:01:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErHG3-00010w-Qz for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:01:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05431 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from 66-168-208-216.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com ([66.168.208.216] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ErHJn-00010V-Cu for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:05:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60b28$e1b57200$0100007f@localhost> From: "Joshua Butler" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:00:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B28.E1B57200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B28.E1B57200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B28.E1B57200-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 11:15:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErHTb-0003Fn-Bs for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:15:03 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07289 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:13:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErHS4-0006XA-9D for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:13:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [144.189.100.102] (helo=motgate4.mot.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErHS3-0006Wx-Bu for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:13:27 +0000 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate4.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate4) with ESMTP id jBRGO5cR011908 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jBRGLtYP011866 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:21:55 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:13:24 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13E199@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis (draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc 2539bis-dhk-06.txt) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:13:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk I support this document with the following changes: 1. The changes indicated below in the message from Mark Andrews; 2. With nits, as appended to the end of this message, fixed; and 3. Addition of Appendix material which would incorporate by reference and assign DH key RR identifiers for the five additional well known Diffie-Hellman groups documented in standards track RFC 3526 "More Modular Exponential (MODP) Diffie-Hellman groups for Internet Key Exchange (IKE)" The purpose of this draft is to update the security RR and other references in the old RFC 2539 and to include additional well known Diffie-Hellman groups. (You can see a wdiff of this draft with the RFC it updates at http://www.pothole.com/~dee3/.) Thanks, Donald ========================================================= Donald E. Eastlake III Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com Motorola Laboratories +1-508-786-7554 (work) 111 Locke Drive +1-508-634-2066 (home) Marlboro, MA 01752 USA -----Original Message----- From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:31 PM Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: DNSEXT WGLC: RFC2536bis and RFC2539bis http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-06.txt Section 2 you dropped the description of the first 4 octets of the KEY record but you left them in the diagram. I would suggest that they be removed from the diagram. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2536bis-dsa-06.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-06.txt Both need a section describing the change from the RFC's they are obsoleting. Something stating that it doesn't change the wire format of KEY RR's it mearly extends the use to also cover DNSKEY. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: Mark_Andrews@isc.org idnits 1.84 tmp/draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2539bis-dhk-05.txt: Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html: Checking conformance with RFC 3978/3979 boilerplate... * The document seems to lack an RFC 3978 Section 5.1 IPR Disclosure Acknowledgement -- however, there's a paragraph with a matching beginning. Boilerplate error? * The document seems to lack an RFC 3978 Section 5.4 Reference to BCP 78. * The document seems to lack an RFC 3979 Section 5, para 1 IPR Disclosure Acknowledgement. * The document seems to lack an RFC 3979 Section 5, para 2 IPR Disclosure Acknowledgement. * The document seems to lack an RFC 3979 Section 5, para 3 IPR Disclosure Invitation. * The document uses RFC 3667 boilerplate or RFC 3978-like boilerplate instead of verbatim RFC 3978 boilerplate. After 6 May 2005, submission of drafts without verbatim RFC 3978 boilerplate is not accepted. The following non-3978 patterns matched text found in the document. That text should be removed or replaced: "By submitting this Internet-Draft, I certify that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which I am aware have been disclosed, or will be disclosed, and any of which I become aware will be disclosed, in accordance with RFC 3668." * There is 1 instance of too long lines in the document, the longest one being 1 character in excess of 72. Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-guidelines.txt: * The document seems to lack a 1id_guidelines paragraph about 6 months document validity -- however, there's a paragraph with a matching beginning. Boilerplate error? Miscellaneous warnings: - The "Author's Address" (or "Authors' Addresses") section title is misspelled. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 11:28:28 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErHga-00052P-C3 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:28:28 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08688 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:27:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErHer-0007bv-Gx for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:26:41 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [195.177.253.212] (helo=shed.alex.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErHep-0007bh-0w for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:26:39 +0000 Received: from Satori.wireless (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shed.alex.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F1E2C2DA4; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:26:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:26:29 +0000 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: David Blacka , Wes Hardaker Cc: Edward Lewis , Scott Rose , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Message-ID: <62CA2671BC658CF1EABA857E@Satori.wireless> In-Reply-To: <844906B6-3EC9-452D-BBBB-DE7A253001FE@verisignlabs.com> References: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> <844906B6-3EC9-452D-BBBB-DE7A253001FE@verisignlabs.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On 27 December 2005 09:47 -0500 David Blacka wrote: > Ok, let me step back a little. Part of what I'm arguing is that the > paragraph, as currently constructed just isn't using MUST in an > appropriate way. Statements like "client MUST have feature X, SHOULD > use feature X, but MAY choose not to" directly translate to "SHOULD use > feature X". On reflection, I'd tend to agree. Alex -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 12:50:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErIxu-0003yW-KX for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:50:26 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20770 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:49:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErIuS-000DCV-Sx for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:46:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErIuS-000DCJ-9b for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:46:52 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id 3B3E511D3F2; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Edward Lewis Cc: David Blacka , "Scott Rose" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Organization: Sparta References: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:46:46 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Edward Lewis's message of "Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:25:11 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:25:11 -0500, Edward Lewis said: Edward> I cringe when I hear "security will not work" because I have never Edward> once heard from a seasoned security practioner "if you do things this Edward> way, you will be secure." Very true. What you tend to hear instead is "if you do things this way, you *won't* be secure". Or in this case "if you do things this way (SHA-1), you're likely less secure than you would be if you use this other thing (SHA-256). At least right now. Maybe." Edward> I wouldn't be surprised if, in 5 years, I hear that SHA-256 is Edward> beaten and now SHA-1 is more secure. Always a possibility. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 12:50:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErIyQ-00040i-MU for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:50:59 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20807 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:49:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErIxB-000DOy-U8 for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:49:41 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [168.150.236.43] (helo=wes.hardakers.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErIxB-000DOm-Br for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:49:41 +0000 Received: by wes.hardakers.net (Postfix, from userid 274) id BE54D11D3F2; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:49:36 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: David Blacka Cc: Edward Lewis , "Scott Rose" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Organization: Sparta References: <8F3F5675-F97D-4588-B190-1CE076CFFF64@verisignlabs.com> <844906B6-3EC9-452D-BBBB-DE7A253001FE@verisignlabs.com> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:49:35 -0800 In-Reply-To: <844906B6-3EC9-452D-BBBB-DE7A253001FE@verisignlabs.com> (David Blacka's message of "Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:47:15 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Jumbo Shrimp, linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 09:47:15 -0500, David Blacka said: David> Ok, let me step back a little. Part of what I'm arguing is David> that the paragraph, as currently constructed just isn't using David> MUST in an appropriate way. Statements like "client MUST have David> feature X, SHOULD use feature X, but MAY choose not to" That's not what it says, actually... What is says is "clients lacking a choice MUST prefer SHA-256. clients with a choice SHOULD make it the default to prefer SHA-256." However.... David> So, to conclude, I suggest that your paragraph just boil down to: David> Validator implementations SHOULD ignore DS RRs containing SHA-1 David> digests if DS RRs with SHA-256 digests are present in the DS RRset. There are at least enough people in this discussion that are in agreement with you that I will likely change the wording... What needs to be done, however, is to go back in the archives to review what people in the previous conversations (that led to the current text) had to say to see if we're everyone is (mostly) in agreement or whether there is now a split between the old and new conversations. -- Wes Hardaker Sparta, Inc. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From sch@artganda.com Tue Dec 27 13:23:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErJUN-0000Kd-P9 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:23:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA24782 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:22:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpe-24-58-214-92.twcny.res.rr.com ([24.58.214.92] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ErJYF-0006MU-BD for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:28:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60b3c$a0c75880$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jaylen Thomas" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B3C.A0C75880-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 14:23:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErKPc-0001W4-I5 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:23:08 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02717 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:21:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErKN6-000KW2-Bf for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:20:32 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErKN5-000KVk-Ob for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:20:31 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE5911429 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:20:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:36:40 +0100." <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:20:29 +0000 Message-Id: <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk # > 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) # # The PowerDNS recursor reserves the right to tune its server selection # process regardless of this RFC. that's probably why it says "OPTIONAL". -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 15:52:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErLnj-0006gR-29 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:52:09 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14568 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:50:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErLi0-0000JF-DJ for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:46:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [213.244.168.210] (helo=outpost.ds9a.nl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErLhx-0000Io-2f for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:46:09 +0000 Received: by outpost.ds9a.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 363F13FBF; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:46:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:46:02 +0100 From: bert hubert To: Paul Vixie Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? Message-ID: <20051227204601.GB7109@outpost.ds9a.nl> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 07:20:29PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > # > 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) > # > # The PowerDNS recursor reserves the right to tune its server selection > # process regardless of this RFC. > > that's probably why it says "OPTIONAL". Yes, but if you decide to do it, it tells you how to do it, making the entire section a bit odd. -- http://www.PowerDNS.com Open source, database driven DNS Software http://netherlabs.nl Open and Closed source services -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 15:52:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErLoV-0006sV-5d for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:52:55 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14633 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:51:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErLgk-0000Aw-7f for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:44:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [129.188.136.8] (helo=motgate8.mot.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErLgj-0000Ag-3s for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:44:53 +0000 Received: from il06exr01.mot.com (il06exr01.mot.com [129.188.137.131]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id jBRKwR5l017845 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by il06exr01.mot.com (8.13.5/8.13.0) with ESMTP id jBRKvCLA005809 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:57:12 -0600 (CST) Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:44:50 -0500 Message-ID: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810C13E365@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:44:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk It is my experience that "security" features below some level of "strength" will be vetoed by the Security ADs / IESG regardless of any philosophical belief by a WG that it should be a local policy option to use weak security (although, of course, an option to dispense with the security feature entirely and be completely insecure is fine as long as the lack of security is clearly explained). For example, I was required to modify the TSIG/SHA draft to flatly prohibit truncating HMACs to less than 80 bits in order to get it through to IETF Last Call, presumably based on a belief that a strength of less than 2**40 was too weak to be called security. Putting algorithm requirements in a separate document from the protocol specification can be a reasonable way to go and is how algorithm implementation requirements are now specified for IPSEC. On hash functions, it is possible, but very unlikely, that SHA-1 (which could be called SHA-160) will turn out to be stronger than SHA-256. However, it is known that SHA-1 is now weaker than 2**64 for finding collisions when it was originally thought to be of strength 2**80 and, for the particular attack in question, the proven lower bound of its strength is only 2**55. This does not effect some uses, like HMAC-SHA-1, but does effect DS. In any case, a fundamental problem is that MD5 and all the SHAs have the same basic structure. (MD5 has be severely broken to strength 2**22 instead of its design strength of 2**64.) Thus NIST has indicated it will be launching a process to devise a new generation of hash functions. However, this is not expected to complete until after 2010 and, in any case, SHA-1 was scheduled to expire as a Federal standard in 2010. So the direction of the Security Area is get out of MD5 as quickly as practical and to move to SHA-256 as quickly as convenient, keeping in mind that in 5 or 6 years we may have to migrate again to a new hash function. Donald -----Original Message----- From: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Edward Lewis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:25 AM To: Wes Hardaker Cc: David Blacka; Edward Lewis; Scott Rose; namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-ds-sha256-02.txt At 22:18 -0800 12/26/05, Wes Hardaker wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:36:41 -0500, David Blacka >>>>>> said: > >David> The use of MUST means that, if an implementation doesn't do the >David> thing, something Will Not Work. All of this language is about >David> preferring SHA-256 to SHA-1. This is a Good Idea, but none of >David> this is necessary for interoperability. Thus, SHOULD or >David> RECOMMENDED is the appropriate level for the entire paragraph. > >There is a really large number of RFCs that have MUSTs for security >related things. That's because without them, security Will Not Work >(which then affects interoperability). > >IMHO, it should stay as a MUST. But... I of course will follow the >consensus of the group. > >Though in this case I think we're not that close to the point where an >attack is actually executable against SHA-1... I agree with David. The action of validation isn't an interoperability question. Either a node will do its own or it will be blindly reliant on another to perform the function (that whole AD bit issue). I cringe when I hear "security will not work" because I have never once heard from a seasoned security practioner "if you do things this way, you will be secure." After spending a lot of time around security people, I have come to believe that security is "the goal that can not be achieved, no matter how much one works at it." I wouldn't be surprised if, in 5 years, I hear that SHA-256 is beaten and now SHA-1 is more secure. Ultimately, I think it is a mistake for any protocol defining document or algorithm defining document to ever make a MUST out of its use or to make statements about the algorithm's "rank" amongst its peers. Whether the subject of a document is in force should be left to an operational profile document. Profiles are much easier to alter, say, to remove the broken SHA-256 when the time comes and replace it with SHA-256-and-a-half if the definitions for those two stick just to their definition. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From afournier@adria-haus.com Tue Dec 27 16:36:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErMUw-0005dU-EL for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:36:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20508 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from s01060013104bd626.vs.shawcable.net ([24.86.187.213] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ErMYp-0005P1-T3 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:40:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60b57$9ebec300$0100007f@localhost> From: "Zackary Campbell" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B57.9EBEC300-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Dec 27 19:43:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErPPy-0000kt-TB for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:43:53 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20686 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:42:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErPHS-000DaP-Dq for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:35:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [131.112.32.132] (helo=necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ErPHR-000DZj-Fu for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:35:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 23250 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2005 01:15:09 -0000 Received: from softbank219178199025.bbtec.net (HELO necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) (219.178.199.25) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 28 Dec 2005 01:15:09 -0000 Message-ID: <43B1DDCA.3080407@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:35:22 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bert hubert CC: Paul Vixie , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> <20051227204601.GB7109@outpost.ds9a.nl> In-Reply-To: <20051227204601.GB7109@outpost.ds9a.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bert hubert wrote: > On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 07:20:29PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > >># > 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) >># >># The PowerDNS recursor reserves the right to tune its server selection >># process regardless of this RFC. >> >>that's probably why it says "OPTIONAL". > > > Yes, but if you decide to do it, it tells you how to do it, making the > entire section a bit odd. In general, it is a bad idea to introduce timing parameters in the Internetworking layer protocols including DNS, because proper timing can be determined only by applications. Though plain DNS does have several timing parameters in SOA, they are tunable zone by zone, that is, approximately application by application, and do not affect applicaiton timing so much. Masataka Ohta -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From director@2agi.com Tue Dec 27 21:05:33 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ErQh3-00087x-Hy for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:05:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA28087 for ; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from adsl-71-141-30-251.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net ([71.141.30.251] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ErQky-0000Xq-IL for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:09:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60b7d$18b57300$0100007f@localhost> From: "Pedro Collins" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:05:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B7D.18B57300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60B7D.18B57300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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=
<= td width=3D132> MS Office 2003 Pro <= tr> See more by this manufacturer<= td width=3D4>  
<= p align=3Dcenter>  ON SALE NOW!

 = ;1 Windows XP Pro SP2
 2 Creative Suite 2
 3
4= Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
 5<= /font> Macromedia Flash 8
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 7 Norton Sysworks 2005
 8 Adobe GoLive CS2=
 9 Adobe Illus= trator CS2
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  Adobe
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= Microsoft Windows XP Professional *w/SP2*
Microsoft

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    Microsoft
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60C81.04F33500-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 30 02:12:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsERW-0008U6-KR for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:12:52 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12760 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:11:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EsEMt-000GEF-QA for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:08:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [64.39.31.27] (helo=server1.dns.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EsEMs-000GE2-TM for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:08:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by server1.dns.net (8.11.7/8.11.6) id jBU781k26120; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:08:01 GMT Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:01:53 +0200 From: Andras Salamon To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? Message-ID: <20051230070153.GA2741@dns.net> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 07:20:29PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > # > 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) > # > # The PowerDNS recursor reserves the right to tune its server selection > # process regardless of this RFC. > > that's probably why it says "OPTIONAL". Yes, but the section also uses "MUST". If a "MUST" is optional, it is better written as "SHOULD". -- Andras Salamon andras@dns.net -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From nsche73@4strokemail.com Fri Dec 30 03:37:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsFlK-0005rs-EL for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:37:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18800 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcp02378395pcs.mrdian01.ms.comcast.net ([68.32.243.49] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EsFpi-0000Ts-LV for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:41:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60d46$25d18e00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jesus Simmons" To: Subject: 0EM Software Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:37:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60D46.25D18E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60D46.25D18E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 44 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 45 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 34 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60D46.25D18E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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----4248793518976645-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 30 09:31:35 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsLI7-0001fA-H0 for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:31:35 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25051 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:30:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EsLEB-000DYn-Ja for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:27:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Received: from [66.92.146.160] (helo=ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EsLEA-000DYX-H3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:27:30 +0000 Received: from [10.31.32.65] (ns.ogud.com [66.92.146.160]) by ogud.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBUERJxj040162; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:27:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:28:04 -0500 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: meddling vs helping - Re: [Question] What is an accurate... Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.54 on 66.92.146.160 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk At 14:36 +0100 12/27/05, bert hubert wrote: >On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 08:05:06PM +0900, Hideshi Enokihara wrote: >> 7.2 Dead / Unreachable Server (OPTIONAL) >(...) > >> A server MAY cache a dead server indication. If it does so it MUST >> NOT be deemed dead for longer than five (5) minutes. The indication >> MUST be stored against query tuple > IP address> unless there was a transport layer indication that the >> server does not exist, in which case it applies to all queries to >> that specific IP address. > >For what it's worth, I consider this section to be meddling. It turns out >differing 'dead/unreachable' strategies have differing merits, this should >not be set in stone. > >I missed the standardisation process, but maybe somebody cares. > >The PowerDNS recursor reserves the right to tune its server selection >process regardless of this RFC. The above is why I use "interoperability" as the measuring stick against which judge the words in an RFC. The history of documentation in the IETF is thicker than the rules of process. To shed some background on documents like the one above, "once upon a time..." At a meeting, I forget which but one about 5 years ago, there was a queue of speakers from ISC on the agenda to talk about a bazillion extensions to DNS and descriptions of enhancements that they encoded into BIND. The motivation of these guys was not world domination but to be good citizen engineers and document for all the world to see "best practice." I don't just mean best operational practice, but also the best way to go about implementing something. I leaned to a neighbor and remarked that this was rather admirable of them - trying hard to fully expose their technology as open source folks - even though they seemed to be bent on monopolizing the agenda. I made a disparaging remark about a competing commercial vendor to contrast this. What I want to say is that a lot of documents on DNS in the past ten years or so are written from the perspective of (over) eager engineers wanting to make the world a better place. One fault in the work is that they optimized for just the one environment in which they toiled - the open source Internet. Keep this in mind when judging the works. What failed the IETF then were two things. One is that no alternate view (of what DNS should be) was taken seriously. Note that I did not say there were no alternate views, nor views aired, but that the WG as a whole did not take other views seriously enough. The other failure was in process, quite a few documents got through because engineers value progress over due diligence. No one has ever "standardized" the resolution process in DNS. I am unconvinced that this is a technical problem. (It could be a policy problem.) The way an process finds an answer to a query is not an interoperability issue, the protocol for doing so is. Ohta's point about burning in timers to application protocols is interesting and right. DNS uses UDP. UDP is unreliable. UDP packets get lost, as a result the sender has to know when to repeat the transmission. This is not a DNS issue, it's a UDP issue. DNS ought not then specify timers for this, but it is a concern for the datagram management element. The documents on the shelf are there, I am not issuing a recall request. I just want to point out that you need to read them in the context of the era in which they were written. Future documents editors need to be more careful, as well as reviewers. Standard track documents need to have a standards tone, other engineering ideas ought to be put in non-standards track documents. I think it's a shame that we sometimes call a document "standards track" because it is updating a document that is standards track. Especially when the original document muddled standards and "what we think is better engineering" ideas. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar 3 months to the next trip. I guess it's finally time to settle down and find a grocery store. -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Dec 30 12:47:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsOLz-0008Ma-8U for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:47:49 -0500 Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19539 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EsOIT-000OCb-Or for namedroppers-data@psg.com; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:44:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on psg.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Received: from [204.152.187.1] (helo=sa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1EsOIQ-000OC4-UP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:44:06 +0000 Received: from sa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544C111426 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:44:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@sa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Question] What is an accurate meaning of "A server MAY cache a dead server indication"? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:01:53 +0200." <20051230070153.GA2741@dns.net> References: <20051226200506.09b607a1.Hideshi.Enokihara@jp.yokogawa.com> <20051227133639.GA1123@outpost.ds9a.nl> <20051227192029.4EE5911429@sa.vix.com> <20051230070153.GA2741@dns.net> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:44:06 +0000 Message-Id: <20051230174406.544C111426@sa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk # > that's probably why it says "OPTIONAL". # # Yes, but the section also uses "MUST". If a "MUST" is optional, it is # better written as "SHOULD". agreed, i think. what the combination means (to me) (in this case) is that if you don't want to have dead/unreachable server logic, you don't have to, but if you do want it, it has to work like this. that makes no sense, and should have been written with a combination that added up to "if you want this particular method of dead/unreachable, here's how to do it". padlipsky tried hard to shine light on the "descriptive vs. prescriptive" approach to protocol design, but apparently not everybody read his book. fortunately, rfc's can be read very loosely, and the ultimate arbiter of an implementor's success is interoperability, not conformity. so if various folks through the years come up with alternative dead/unreachable server logics that they either do or don't publish as rfc's, then each one will succeed or not based on whether it improves the operation of a resolver, and (perhaps) on whether it degrades the performance of other resolvers/servers, but never whether it exactly matches what's written in section 7.2 here. i'm glad our WG chairs are now actively searching for ways to make sure nothing gets to IESG without strong support and actual review. this doc, among many others we've sent up, had neither. (mea culpa, i helped w/ this.) -- to unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. archive: From pcohen@quitsmokeless.biz Sat Dec 31 11:24:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsjWV-0000C6-QL for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:24:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25599 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [12.156.89.25] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Esjb8-0002v8-Ji for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60e50$7cc38a00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Julian Mitchell" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:24:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E50.7CC38A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E50.7CC38A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 42 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 44 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 46 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E50.7CC38A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 35 reviews)

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E50.7CC38A00-- From melissa_chavira@blakeappraisals.com Sat Dec 31 16:03:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Esnt9-0008Bx-TU for dnsext-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:03:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14878 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:02:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [125.181.96.142] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Esnxr-00017H-Q3 for dnsext-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:08:36 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60e77$c5426e00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Elijah Sanders" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 06:03:34 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E77.C5426E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E77.C5426E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 49 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 38 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 34 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E77.C5426E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES
Microsoft

 ON SALE NOW!

  1 Office Pro 2003
  2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0
  3 Windows XP Pro
  4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
  5 Flash MX 2004
  6 Corel Draw 12
  7 Norton Antivirus 2005
  8 Windows 2003 Server
  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
   
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 36 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 42 review! s)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 46 reviews)

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