From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Fri Jan 1 03:05:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBDE3A677D for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 03:05:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HOST_EQ_USERONOCOM=1.444, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hdLX6CK1YDFV for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 03:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 81.184.145.41.dyn.user.ono.com (81.184.145.41.dyn.user.ono.com [81.184.145.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7443A67A3 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 03:05:48 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100101110549.0A7443A67A3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 03:05:48 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 1 09:53:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA263A68BB; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:53:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-6.106, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FE8eTAvPZPcm; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDF03A68CB; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NQlTq-000OVt-Jp for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:40:06 +0000 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NQlTk-000OUm-6g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:40:00 +0000 Received: from relay15.apple.com (relay15.apple.com [17.128.113.54]) by mail-out4.apple.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FA284A5D92 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:39:59 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 11807136-b7bafae000000e8d-9c-4b3e336f3aa5 Received: from gertie.apple.com (gertie.apple.com [17.151.62.15]) by relay15.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 15.44.03725.F633E3B4; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:39:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Received: from [172.16.42.9] (c-68-35-151-194.hsd1.nm.comcast.net [68.35.151.194]) by gertie.apple.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0KVK002OCX2L3850@gertie.apple.com> for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 09:39:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: Donald Eastlake Message-id: <960F85A6-9BAD-447D-956D-D1AEB2B5FD58@apple.com> From: Stuart Cheshire To: IETF DNSEXT WG In-reply-to: <1028365c0912310814m4a0f72f8v9b8deeefbf8dd952@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] FQDN maximum length Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 09:39:56 -0800 References: <1028365c0912131848p29de845fte3d53835e851b470@mail.gmail.com> <1028365c0912310814m4a0f72f8v9b8deeefbf8dd952@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAZE= Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 31 Dec 2009, at 8:14, Donald Eastlake wrote: > Possibly the 255 byte wire encoding limit was chosen so the byte > string could be represented inside a computer for processing in 256 > bytes by adding a length byte as Pascal might do. Or possibly the 255 byte limit was chosen to leave one byte space for the zero terminator on the end? In any case we made a decision for Multicast DNS that a domain name object in memory can be up to 256 bytes -- a convenient power of two -- which is 255 bytes for label octets and label length octets, plus one byte for the zero terminator on the end. And we wrote a document that said so very clearly, to avoid any confusion. Stuart Cheshire * Wizard Without Portfolio, Apple Inc. * Internet Architecture Board * www.stuartcheshire.org From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jan 1 14:53:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E223A6831 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -26.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-26.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ppDOua31Wave for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 93-34-14-255.ip47.fastwebnet.it (93-34-14-255.ip47.fastwebnet.it [93.34.14.255]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCC33A680B for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:23 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100101225323.ACCC33A680B@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:23 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Fri Jan 1 14:53:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72513A6831 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -24.406 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-24.406 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHeZS-Ta2d8V for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 93-34-14-255.ip47.fastwebnet.it (93-34-14-255.ip47.fastwebnet.it [93.34.14.255]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634F03A6827 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:38 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100101225341.634F03A6827@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 14:53:38 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 1 15:35:20 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB223A6922; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:35:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -93.642 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.642 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M2WX+JKxyfdl; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32003A6923; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NQqoP-000OB7-0P for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:21:41 +0000 Received: from [74.125.78.26] (helo=ey-out-2122.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NQqo7-000O9p-SW for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:21:24 +0000 Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 25so1956559eya.1 for ; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:21:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.93.66 with SMTP id k44mr7130434wef.67.1262388081513; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:21:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <960F85A6-9BAD-447D-956D-D1AEB2B5FD58@apple.com> References: <1028365c0912131848p29de845fte3d53835e851b470@mail.gmail.com> <1028365c0912310814m4a0f72f8v9b8deeefbf8dd952@mail.gmail.com> <960F85A6-9BAD-447D-956D-D1AEB2B5FD58@apple.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:21:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1028365c1001011521s76f4547bmec198eb290f84fdf@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] FQDN maximum length From: Donald Eastlake To: Stuart Cheshire Cc: IETF DNSEXT WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d778ed2ad40d047c22a118 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --0016e6d778ed2ad40d047c22a118 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Stuart, On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Stuart Cheshire wrote: > On 31 Dec 2009, at 8:14, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > Possibly the 255 byte wire encoding limit was chosen so the byte string >> could be represented inside a computer for processing in 256 bytes by adding >> a length byte as Pascal might do. >> > > Or possibly the 255 byte limit was chosen to leave one byte space for the > zero terminator on the end? > Sure, lots of things could have been in the mind of the RFC author. > In any case we made a decision for Multicast DNS that a domain name object > in memory can be up to 256 bytes -- a convenient power of two -- which is > 255 bytes for label octets and label length octets, plus one byte for the > zero terminator on the end. And we wrote a document that said so very > clearly, to avoid any confusion. > Well, since its Informational, you can set that number at whatever you want. I don't particularly see the point of the stuff in the draft about how ambiguous some parts of some DNS RFCs are. In the IETF, when the specification of a protocol is ambiguous on a point and there are interoperable implementations, the ambiguity is resolved by seeing what those implementations do. Although it was before my time, I believe this was established when early IPv4 interop testing was done. People were interoperating fine with checksum checking turned off but when it was turned on, most failed to interoperate due to differing interpretations of the spec. The spec was then changed to what the largest number of interoperating implementations were doing. But the multicast DNS draft also speaks about compatibility with existing unicast DNS implementations and how you can frequently just tweak the address used. Seems like that won't be true for the corner case of domain names whose wire encoding is 256 bytes. So, it seems to me that that should be noted in the draft. > Stuart Cheshire > * Wizard Without Portfolio, Apple Inc. > * Internet Architecture Board > * www.stuartcheshire.org > Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-634-2066 (home) 155 Beaver Street Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com --0016e6d778ed2ad40d047c22a118 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stuart,

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:39 = PM, Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com> wrote:
On 31 Dec 2009, at 8:14, Donald Eastlake wrote:

Possibly the 255 byte wire encoding limit was chosen so the byte string cou= ld be represented inside a computer for processing in 256 bytes by adding a= length byte as Pascal might do.

Or possibly the 255 byte limit was chosen to leave one byte space for the z= ero terminator on the end?

Sure, lots o= f things could have been in the mind of the RFC author.
=A0
In any case we made a decision for Multicast DNS that a domain name object = in memory can be up to 256 bytes -- a convenient power of two -- which is 2= 55 bytes for label octets and label length octets, plus one byte for the ze= ro terminator on the end. And we wrote a document that said so very clearly= , to avoid any confusion.

W= ell, since its Informational, you can set that number at whatever you want.=

I don't particularly see the point of the stu= ff in the draft about how ambiguous some parts of some DNS RFCs are. In the= IETF, when the specification of a protocol is ambiguous on a point and the= re are interoperable implementations, the ambiguity is resolved by seeing w= hat those implementations do. Although it was before my time, I believe thi= s was established when early IPv4 interop testing was done. People were int= eroperating fine with checksum checking turned off but when it was turned o= n, most failed to interoperate due to differing interpretations of the spec= . The spec was then changed to what the largest number of interoperating im= plementations were doing.

But the multicast DNS draft also speaks about compatibi= lity with existing unicast DNS implementations and how you can frequently j= ust tweak the address used. Seems like that won't be true for the corne= r case of domain names whose wire encoding is 256 bytes. So, it seems to me= that that should be noted in the draft.
=A0
Stuart= Cheshire <chesh= ire@apple.com>
* Wizard Without Portfolio, Apple Inc.
* Internet Architecture Board
* www.stuartche= shire.org

Thanks,
Dona= ld
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Donald E. Eastlake 3rd =A0 +1-508-634-= 2066 (home)
155 Beaver Street
Milford, MA 01757 USA
d3e3e3@gmail.com
=A0
--0016e6d778ed2ad40d047c22a118-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jan 1 23:47:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DAD13A6856 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:47:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -49.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-49.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=2.207, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9SMgD7xSvpn for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from 58-27-235-238.wateen.net (58-27-235-238.wateen.net [58.27.235.238]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796643A6839 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:47:35 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100102074735.796643A6839@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:47:35 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Sat Jan 2 01:24:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21573A68C6 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 01:24:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.072 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.072 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9hsRJx-+XQ0V for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 01:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 112.116.broadband.iol.cz (112.116.broadband.iol.cz [80.188.116.112]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3043A68C4 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 01:24:30 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100102092431.4C3043A68C4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 01:24:30 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jan 2 17:35:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03AD3A6907; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:35:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.82 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.82 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=5.178, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EWAQNpLVs5CP; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:35:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EE83A67FA; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 17:35:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRF9q-000JAH-F2 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:21:26 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRF9i-000J9f-If for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:21:19 +0000 Received: from stora.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o031Mkh8085347 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:22:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@stora.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o031MkwQ085346 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 20:22:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [74.125.78.27] (helo=ey-out-2122.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NQNfc-0006eB-9B for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:14:40 +0000 Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 4so2469847eyf.53 for ; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:14:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=YEMFbW6nUDG6t2/tIPWYjoMnLTWO7FCOYv+yifI6rzw=; b=Pc0aPQ2w9nLjFhlaQ5bjKJ1BCXxuNRH1p6XFOrpAvkjZMQfFGhCvfkMYTmzrHHouBX NLzpJxSNNgzMkjwJJ+n7Tj4ipI20Hzyyhb/XkLin+vCVaYC0Lk4mpt/S/q8QEqzbzjeF y9ss6/s7xZOmP0mDSOe+ofLat9oZcqs6Afih8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=iLrUaB93znFkPorPTkcqCBzGrbNlV8KU+ISXEOKoOAwI1f/8tCY3x9DnAqGG32yx49 wgypcMLzx++1+EPPnxlMitw64rJdAvdVesziisjBzKs24SxPr3xKw6Q6QDla4/EK9JLs jge5J3MLWJ3yjhfpwU+pEdApUNXZwwDp6GjBc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.93.78 with SMTP id k56mr3607756wef.102.1262276078160; Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:14:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1028365c0912131848p29de845fte3d53835e851b470@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:14:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1028365c0912310814m4a0f72f8v9b8deeefbf8dd952@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] FQDN maximum length From: Donald Eastlake To: Stuart Cheshire Cc: IETF DNSEXT WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d784553f4cae047c088d26 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --0016e6d784553f4cae047c088d26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Stuart, While I respond in detail below, I think your basic problem is that you didn't go about trying to clarify this ambiguity in the IETF way. You don't resolve such things in the IETF by puzzling endlessly over every piece of ambiguous RFC text you can find, as though it were some sort of holy writ. Interoperability trumps the results of such puzzling and musing. "We believe in rough consensus and *running cod**e*." You should have asked any of the many well known DNS implementers or looked at DNS open source or posted to the namedroppers mailing list with your question. In any case, the conclusion you came to was incorrect. On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Stuart Cheshire wrote: > On 13 Dec 2009, at 18:48, Donald Eastlake wrote: > > OK, here is what I think is a stupid question to which I think I know the >> answer... but I wish to consult the wisdom of namedroppers. >> > (The reason I said this was a stupid question was I was already quite sure what the wire format limits were and just wanted to confirm this before telling you.) > I am doing a review of draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-08.txt. For some >> reason, the authors believe that the words of RFC 1034 as follows >> >> the total number of octets that represent a domain name (i.e., >> the sum of all label octets and label lengths) is limited to 255 >> >> are not clear. I thought they were clear. > > As is often the case, things that may superficially appear clear at a > casual glance are not so clear when you think about them more carefully. > The text quoted above seems perfectly clear to me no matter how much I think about it. There is other more ambiguous text. But "the sum of all label octets and label lengths" is absolutely clear. And, because it is talking about lengths rather than periods/delimiters, it can't be talking about anything but the wire encoding. In any case, what the interoperable implementations do rules, not anyone's thoughts, careful or not. > RFC 1035 ("DNS Implementation and Specification") says: > > 2.3.4. Size limits >> >> Various objects and parameters in the DNS have size limits. They are >> listed below. Some could be easily changed, others are more fundamental. >> >> labels 63 octets or less >> names 255 octets or less > > It would be nice if this said either: > > labels 63 octets or less (including initial length byte) >> names 255 octets or less (including final terminating zero) >> > or > > labels 63 octets or less (excluding initial length byte) >> names 255 octets or less (excluding final terminating zero) >> > Other context leads us to conclude that the label length limit does NOT > include the initial length byte. Consistency would suggest that an > equivalent interpretation might apply to the definition of name length > limit. > You're right on labels, since the length is a 6 bit quantity with values zero through 63 and if the length byte were included then the length value field could not exceed 62 and there would need to be some text about what to do if it has the value 63 and there is no such text. But "consistency" and "equivalent interpretation" are in the eye of the beholder. "Name" here seems to be short for fully qualified domain name which includes the wire encoding of the terminating root label. > Faced with this ambiguity, we consulted "Clarifications to the DNS > Specification", RFC 2181. > > Given that the entire point of RFC 2181 was to recognize and remedy > ambiguities in the original DNS specifications, one might hope that it was > given thorough scrutiny by the IETF and DNSEXT to ensure that it did so, and > consequently any information in it replaces and supersedes any unclear or > ambiguous information in the earlier RFCs. RFC 2181 says: > But the problem is, as usual, that there are some things so fundamental that all the knowledgeable people working on and reviewing such a document just assume you know and think it's already clear since they just know what the right thing is. It's commonly such simple, fundamental things that trip people up. After all, if something is complex/rare/obscure, people will go to pains explaining it thoroughly. But something as simple, common, and plain as the wire encoding of domain names, which appear in every DNS request and response and has been interoperably implemented many times over many years, is easily glossed over. > The DNS itself places only one restriction on the particular labels >> that can be used to identify resource records. That one restriction >> relates to the length of the label and the full name. The length of >> any one label is limited to between 1 and 63 octets. A full domain >> name is limited to 255 octets (including the separators). The zero >> >> length full name is defined as representing the root of the DNS tree, >> and is typically written and displayed as ".". >> > So, what do we make of that? Is this talking about the wire format of a > domain name, or the conventional textual representation? The "including the > separators" text implies this is talking about the textual representation, > but it fails to say whether the trailing dot is included, and it also fails > to say whether the trailing null byte typically at the end of a C string is > included. As "clarifications" go, I've seen better. What's the length of " > ietf.org"? Let's consider the four possibilities: > > (A) "ietf.org" length = 8 > (B) "ietf.org." length = 9 > (C) "ietf.org\0" length = 9 > (D) "ietf.org.\0" length = 10 > The wire encoding of this as an FQDN is always 10 bytes. The text encoding is 9 as an FQDN and 8 as a relative domain name. If you have this many possibilities and you find things this ambiguous about something that has been interoperably implemented for so many years, why not just ask? It is true that one of the 103x DNS RFCs should had more hex examples, including a specific example of a wire encoded maximum length domain name. > Let's consider that for the case of the root name: > > (A) "" length = 0 > (B) "." length = 1 > (C) "\0" length = 1 > (D) ".\0" length = 2 > > Is the length of "ietf.org" 8, 9 or 10? Is the length of the root name 0, > 1, or 2? If only the document gave us some hint. Oh, wait, it does: > > The zero length full name is defined as representing the root >> of the DNS tree, and is typically written and displayed as ".". >> > So RFC 2181 does tell us the answer. The length of "." is considered to be > zero. So neither the trailing dot nor the trailing C-string null byte are > included. That means interpretation (A) is the correct one, and the nominal > "length" of "ietf.org" is 8. > I'm not claiming RFC 2181 is clear in this regard. The 2181 text is confusing between text and wire representation. The trailing null byte that ends all FQDNs has nothing to do with C-string termination. It is the length of the label of the root node. There can be embedded null bytes earlier in the FQDN inside other labels. > This is consistent with other similar things in computing. A pascal string > can be 0-255 bytes long, but it takes 1-256 bytes of storage, because of the > length byte. Many software objects are a multiple of a power of two in size, > because computers are more efficient at handling memory objects that are > bus-aligned (typically 4 bytes), or cache-line aligned (e.g. 128-bytes), or > VM-page aligned (e.g. 4KB). > > Limiting a domain name to 255 bytes of storage instead of 256 is just > wasting a byte. In a C structure in memory, a 255-byte object is usually > followed by an unused padding byte so that the next object is word-aligned. > But wire encoded fully qualified domain names are not C strings because a zero byte is entirely valid inside a label. Possibly the 255 byte wire encoding limit was chosen so the byte string could be represented inside a computer for processing in 256 bytes by adding a length byte as Pascal might do. But there is no overall FQDN length byte in the wire encoding. Termination is indicated when you run into a zero value label length byte since the zero length label is the label of root. In such a world, where a pascal string can be 0-255 bytes long, and takes up > to 256 bytes of storage, because of the length byte, it is consistent that: > > (a) a domain label can be up to 63 bytes long (and takes up to 64 bytes of > storage, because of the length byte) and > (b) a domain name can be up to 255 bytes long (and takes up to 256 bytes of > storage, because of the terminating zero). That's nice and, from some point of view, consistent, but it does not agree with DNS implementations. Stuart Cheshire > * Wizard Without Portfolio, Apple Inc. > * Internet Architecture Board > * www.stuartcheshire.org Thanks, Donald --0016e6d784553f4cae047c088d26 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi=A0Stuart,

While I respond in detail below, I think yo= ur basic problem is that you didn't go about trying to clarify this amb= iguity in the IETF way. You don't resolve such things in the IETF by pu= zzling endlessly over every piece of ambiguous RFC text you can find, as th= ough it were some sort of holy writ. Interoperability trumps the results of= such puzzling and musing. "We believe in rough consensus and runni= ng code."

You should have asked any of the many well known DNS im= plementers or looked at DNS open source or posted to the namedroppers maili= ng list with your question. In any case, the conclusion you came to was inc= orrect.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Stuart= Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com> wrote:
On 13 Dec 2009, at 18:48, Donald Eastlake wrote:

OK, here is what I think is a stupid question to which I think I know the a= nswer... but I wish to consult the wisdom of namedroppers.
=

(The reason I said this was a stupid= question was I was already quite sure what the wire format limits were and= just wanted to confirm this before telling you.)
=A0
I am doing a review of draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-08.txt. For some = reason, the authors believe that the words of RFC 1034 as follows

=A0 =A0 the total number of octets that represent a domain name (i.e.,
=A0 =A0 the sum of all label octets and label lengths) is limited to 255
are not clear. I thought they were clear.=A0
As is often the case, things that may superficially appear clear at a casua= l glance are not so clear when you think about them more carefully.

The text quoted above seems perfectly clear to= me no matter how much I think about it. There is other more ambiguous text= . But "the sum of all label octets and label lengths" is absolute= ly clear. And, because it is talking about lengths rather than periods/deli= miters, it can't be talking about anything but the wire encoding.

In any case, what the interoperable implementations do = rules, not anyone's thoughts, careful or not.
=A0
RFC 1035 ("DNS Implementation and Specification") says:

2.3.4. Size limits

Various objects and parameters in the DNS have size limits. =A0They are
listed below. =A0Some could be easily changed, others are more fundamental.=

labels =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A063 octets or less
names =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 255 octets or less=A0
It would be nice if this said either:

labels =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A063 octets or less (including initial length byte)=
names =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 255 octets or less (including final terminating z= ero)
or

labels =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A063 octets or less (excluding initial length byte)=
names =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 255 octets or less (excluding final terminating z= ero)
Other context leads us to conclude that the label length limit does NOT inc= lude the initial length byte. Consistency would suggest that an equivalent = interpretation might apply to the definition of name length limit.

You're right on labels, since the leng= th is a 6 bit quantity with values zero through 63 and if the length byte w= ere included then the length value field could not exceed 62 and there woul= d need to be some text about what to do if it has the value 63 and there is= no such text.

But "consistency" and "equivalent interp= retation" are in the eye of the beholder. "Name" here seems = to be short for fully qualified domain name which includes the wire encodin= g of the terminating root label.
=A0
Faced with this ambiguity, we consulted "Clarifications to the DNS Spe= cification", RFC 2181.

Given that the entire point of RFC 2181 was to recognize and remedy ambigui= ties in the original DNS specifications, one might hope that it was given t= horough scrutiny by the IETF and DNSEXT to ensure that it did so, and conse= quently any information in it replaces and supersedes any unclear or ambigu= ous information in the earlier RFCs. RFC 2181 says:

But the problem is, as usual, that there a= re some things so fundamental that all the knowledgeable people working on = and reviewing such a document just assume you know and think it's alrea= dy clear since they just know what the right thing is. It's commonly su= ch simple, fundamental things that trip people up. After all, if something = is complex/rare/obscure, people will go to pains explaining it thoroughly. = But something as simple, common, and plain as the wire encoding of domain n= ames, which appear in every DNS request and response and has been interoper= ably implemented many times over many years, is easily glossed over.
=A0
=A0 The DNS itself places only one restriction on the particular labels =A0 that can be used to identify resource records. =A0That one restriction=
=A0 relates to the length of the label and the full name. =A0The length of=
=A0 any one label is limited to between 1 and 63 octets. =A0A full domain<= br> =A0 name is limited to 255 octets (including the separators). =A0The zero<= div>
=A0 length full name is defined as representing the root of the DNS tree,<= br> =A0 and is typically written and displayed as ".".
So, what do we make of that? Is this talking about the wire format of a dom= ain name, or the conventional textual representation? The "including t= he separators" text implies this is talking about the textual represen= tation, but it fails to say whether the trailing dot is included, and it al= so fails to say whether the trailing null byte typically at the end of a C = string is included. As "clarifications" go, I've seen better.= What's the length of "ietf.org"? Let's consider the four possibilities:

(A) "ietf.org" = =A0 =A0length =3D =A08
(B) "ietf.org."= =A0 length =3D =A09
(C) "ietf.org\0"= ; =A0length =3D =A09
(D) "ietf.org.\0&quo= t; length =3D 10

The wire encoding of t= his as an FQDN is always 10 bytes. The text encoding is 9 as an FQDN and 8 = as a relative domain name.

If you have this many possibilities and you find things= this ambiguous about something that has been interoperably implemented for= so many years, why not just ask?

It is true that = one of the 103x DNS RFCs should had more hex examples, including a specific= example of a wire encoded maximum length domain name.
=A0
Let's consider that for the case of the root name:

(A) "" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0length =3D =A00
(B) "." =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 length =3D =A01
(C) "\0" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0length =3D =A01
(D) ".\0" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 length =3D =A02

Is the length of "ietf.o= rg" 8, 9 or 10? Is the length of the root name 0, 1, or 2? If only= the document gave us some hint. Oh, wait, it does:

=A0 The zero length full name is defined as representing the root
=A0 of the DNS tree, and is typically written and displayed as ".&quo= t;.
So RFC 2181 does tell us the answer. The length of "." is conside= red to be zero. So neither the trailing dot nor the trailing C-string null = byte are included. That means interpretation (A) is the correct one, and th= e nominal "length" of "ietf.org" is 8.

I'm not claiming RFC 2181 is clear in = this regard. The 2181 text is confusing between text and wire representatio= n.

The trailing null byte that ends all FQDNs has = nothing to do with C-string termination. It is the length of the label of t= he root node. There can be embedded null bytes earlier in the FQDN inside o= ther labels.
=A0
This is consistent with other similar things in computing. A pascal string = can be 0-255 bytes long, but it takes 1-256 bytes of storage, because of th= e length byte. Many software objects are a multiple of a power of two in si= ze, because computers are more efficient at handling memory objects that ar= e bus-aligned (typically 4 bytes), or cache-line aligned (e.g. 128-bytes), = or VM-page aligned (e.g. 4KB).

Limiting a domain name to 255 bytes of storage instead of 256 is just wasti= ng a byte. In a C structure in memory, a 255-byte object is usually followe= d by an unused padding byte so that the next object is word-aligned.

But wire encoded fully qualified domain na= mes are not C strings because a zero byte is entirely valid inside a label.= Possibly the 255 byte wire encoding limit was chosen so the byte string co= uld be represented inside a computer for processing in 256 bytes by adding = a length byte as Pascal might do. But there is no overall FQDN length byte = in the wire encoding. Termination is indicated when you run into a zero val= ue label length byte since the zero length label is the label of root.

In such a world, where a pascal string can be 0-255 bytes long, and takes u= p to 256 bytes of storage, because of the length byte, it is consistent tha= t:

(a) a domain label can be up to 63 bytes long (and takes up to 64 bytes of = storage, because of the length byte) and
(b) a domain name can be up to 255 bytes long (and takes up to 256 bytes of= storage, because of the terminating zero).

That's nice and, from some point of view, consistent, but it does not = agree with DNS implementations.=A0

Stuart Cheshire <cheshire@apple.com>
* Wizard Without Portfolio, Apple Inc.
* Internet Architecture Board
* www.stuartche= shire.org

Thanks,
Dona= ld
=A0
--0016e6d784553f4cae047c088d26-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jan 2 23:35:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E0B3A685D for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 23:35:15 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -23.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-23.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_H_PHARMACY=1, GB_I_LETTER=-2, GB_PHARMACY=1, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.779, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SAA-InZqCK-k for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 23:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta.email.webmd.com (unknown [92.124.45.129]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EABBE3A6807 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 2010 23:35:07 -0800 (PST) Content-Return: allowed X-Mailer: devMail.Net (3.0.1854.22234-2) Message-Id: <486c01ca8c8a$52546ac0$812d7c5c@a59d7b1c4856489> To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: RE: Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org Pharmacy Message 98149 From: VIAGRA ® Official Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 23:35:07 -0800 (PST) Welcome to WebMD
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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jan 3 03:01:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FBC3A68C6 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=2.207, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WEJo6ES9mdZo for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 83-238-239-77.adsl.inetia.pl (83-238-239-77.adsl.inetia.pl [83.238.239.77]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A85B3A687C for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:23 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100103110123.4A85B3A687C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:23 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Sun Jan 3 03:01:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103173A687C for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.648 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.648 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=2.207, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YZpArviQ5HQt for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from 83-238-239-77.adsl.inetia.pl (83-238-239-77.adsl.inetia.pl [83.238.239.77]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BC03A68A4 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:26 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100103110126.C3BC03A68A4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:01:26 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Sun Jan 3 08:49:42 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB5BB3A6834 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -19.082 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.082 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.935, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mIT+Lz+nd4N9 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip-89.171.9.10.static.crowley.pl (ip-89.171.9.18.static.crowley.pl [89.171.9.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8836A3A6853 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100103164935.8836A3A6853@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:35 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jan 3 08:49:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668E33A6834 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -19.082 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.082 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.935, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EnNUjrj97nRL for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip-89.171.9.10.static.crowley.pl (ip-89.171.9.18.static.crowley.pl [89.171.9.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327513A6853 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:46 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100103164946.327513A6853@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 08:49:46 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jan 3 22:22:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5DB3A659A for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:22:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.662 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.662 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.935, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HOST_EQ_STATICB=1.372, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=1.615, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xfg-rGXiPPsF for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from static-ip-87-248-64-89.promax.media.pl (static-ip-87-248-64-89.promax.media.pl [87.248.64.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432203A6964 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:22:15 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100104062216.432203A6964@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:22:15 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Sun Jan 3 22:23:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4693A68D2 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:23:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -25.662 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-25.662 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.935, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HOST_EQ_STATICB=1.372, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=1.615, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.117, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ffy5wv6lIzau for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from static-ip-87-248-64-89.promax.media.pl (static-ip-87-248-64-89.promax.media.pl [87.248.64.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A477D3A6950 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:23:36 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100104062336.A477D3A6950@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:23:36 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 01:35:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74EAF3A67B7; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:35:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, GB_I_LETTER=-2, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=2.796, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eoU4rVsexbyR; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24813A67AA; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRjAm-000KYI-TO for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:24:24 +0000 Received: from [195.188.213.6] (helo=smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRjAg-000KXt-8Y for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:24:18 +0000 Received: from [172.23.170.145] (helo=anti-virus03-08) by smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1NRjAc-0007Pb-D2; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:24:14 +0000 Received: from [82.46.70.191] (helo=GeorgeLaptop) by asmtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1NRjAb-0006TI-R9; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:24:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> From: "George Barwood" To: "Michael Graff" , References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:24:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIk1pY2hhZWwgR3JhZmYiIDxt Z3JhZmZAaXNjLm9yZz4NClRvOiA8bmFtZWRyb3BwZXJzQG9wcy5pZXRmLm9yZz4NClNlbnQ6IFN1 bmRheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMjcsIDIwMDkgMTE6NDMgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbZG5zZXh0XSB3 ZSd2ZSBiZWVuIGFzc3VtaW5nIHRoYXQgb25seSBvbmUgbGFiZWwgbWF0dGVycw0KDQoNCj4gSSBw ZXJzb25hbGx5IHRoaW5rIGl0J3MgYSB0b29sIGlzc3VlLCBhbmQgbm8gcHJvdG9jb2wgY2hhbmdl cyBuZWVkIHRvDQo+IGhhcHBlbi4gIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIHdoeSB0aGUgSUVURiBuZWVkcyB0byBz b2x2ZSBhIHByb2JsZW0gdXNpbmcNCj4gcHJvdG9jb2wgd2hlbiBpdCdzIGZhaXJseSBjbGVhciB0 byBtZSB0aGF0IGFueSByZWFsIHNvbHV0aW9uIGludm9sdmluZw0KPiBwcm90b2NvbCBjaGFuZ2Vz IGlzIG1vcmUgb3IgbGVzcyBhIG5vbi1zdGFydGVyLg0KDQpJIGFncmVlICggbm93IHRoYXQgTWlj aGFlbCBoYXMgYmVlbiBicmF2ZSBlbm91Z2ggdG8gcHV0IGhpcyBoZWFkIGFib3ZlIHRoZSBwYXJh cGV0ICkuDQoNCkROUyBoYXMgYWx3YXlzIHJlY29nbmlzZWQgdGhhdCBMYXRpbiB1cHBlciBhbmQg bG93ZXIgY2FzZSBsZXR0ZXJzIGFyZSBlcXVpdmFsZW50LA0KYW5kIHRoaXMgaGFzIGhpc3Rvcmlj YWxseSBiZWVuIGltcGxlbWVudGVkIG9uIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgc2lkZS4NCg0KVGhlcmUgaXMgYXBw YXJlbnRseSBhIG5lZWQgdG8gZGVmaW5lIGEgbm9ybWFsaXNhdGlvbiBydWxlIGZvciBtb3JlIGNv bXBsZXggZXF1aXZhbGVuY2VzLg0KDQpJIHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhpcyBpcyBiZXN0IGFwcGxpZWQgY2xp ZW50IHNpZGUsIGVpdGhlciBieSBodW1hbnMga25vd2luZyB0aGUgcnVsZXMsIG9yIGluIHNvZnR3 YXJlLg0KDQpJbmNyZWFzaW5nIHRoZSBjb21wbGV4aXR5IG9mIHRoZSByZXNvbHV0aW9uIHByb2Nl c3Mgc3RyaWtlcyBtZSBhcyBhIGJhZCBpZGVhLg0KDQpHZW9yZ2UNCg== From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Mon Jan 4 04:55:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906D33A68BC for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -33.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-33.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=4.199, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=1.615, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.599, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_BLACK=20, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BxWgkTKLvDYS for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201.47.154.108.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br (201.47.154.108.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br [201.47.154.108]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7503A68FA for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:45 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100104125545.3F7503A68FA@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:45 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 04:55:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E100E3A690E for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=4.199, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.808, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.556, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=1.615, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.599, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_SBL=20, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1xpS9K7zRfZg for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201.47.154.108.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br (201.47.154.108.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br [201.47.154.108]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E3C3A691D for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:49 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100104125549.F1E3C3A691D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 04:55:49 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 06:34:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A807F28C0DD; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:34:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -93.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-93.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9AcEfU5SjVpf; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D74B3A67AE; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:34:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRnme-000O9W-N1 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:19:48 +0000 Received: from [192.245.12.227] (helo=balder-227.proper.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRnmX-000O8Q-Iw for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:19:41 +0000 Received: from [10.20.30.158] (75-101-30-90.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.30.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o04EJc3v082938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:19:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 06:19:37 -0800 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: The IESG (by way of Paul Hoffman) Subject: [dnsext] Last Call: draft-jabley-reverse-servers (Nameservers for IPv4 and IPv6 Reverse Zones) to Proposed Standard Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider the following document: - 'Nameservers for IPv4 and IPv6 Reverse Zones ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-02-01. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jabley-reverse-servers-01.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=19391&rfc_flag=0 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 07:07:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210993A69B6; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:07:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.824 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.824 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.819, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RwSXDDBKJCNj; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76AB23A688D; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRoQh-0004iz-VE for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:01:11 +0000 Received: from [204.152.189.190] (helo=virtualized.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRoQa-0004eH-6T for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:01:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by virtualized.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA569F7F0A; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:01:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at virtualized.org Received: from virtualized.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trantor.virtualized.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TnErtYW+Sezj; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.34.223] (72-255-30-126.client.stsn.net [72.255.30.126]) by virtualized.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5B49F7F00; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:00:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [dnsext] Last Call: draft-jabley-reverse-servers (Nameservers for IPv4 and IPv6 Reverse Zones) to Proposed Standard Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: David Conrad In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:00:52 -0500 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0AE9F338-A159-41DF-B29A-A10D0D196305@virtualized.org> References: To: The IESG (by way of Paul Hoffman) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: In general, I strongly support this document. My only question would be whether it would make sense to use = "IP4-SERVERS.ARPA" instead of "IN-ADDR-SERVERS.ARPA" (a foolish = consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds like my own). Regards, -drc On Jan 4, 2010, at 9:19 AM, The IESG (by way of Paul Hoffman) wrote: > The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to = consider=20 > the following document: >=20 > - 'Nameservers for IPv4 and IPv6 Reverse Zones ' > as a Proposed Standard >=20 > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to = the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-02-01. Exceptionally,=20 > comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please=20= > retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. >=20 > The file can be obtained via > = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jabley-reverse-servers-01.txt >=20 >=20 > IESG discussion can be tracked via > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_id&dTag=3D= 19391&rfc_flag=3D0 >=20 >=20 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 09:00:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D57A28C10F; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:00:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.000, FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ow-6ir20bT28; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C5D28C0E5; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRqBi-000HxS-PD for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:53:50 +0000 Received: from [209.85.221.188] (helo=mail-qy0-f188.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRqBZ-000Hv6-2w for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:53:41 +0000 Received: by qyk26 with SMTP id 26so7327224qyk.5 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aFDONOjEZHFqjqaMkZpEePzhS0T4AYky1YBunCX8btk=; b=Oq84VjRzGzM3Lb70jdDOmk9YFoEZY5ApfI+G2dx3LSqg14FRNb4SUsegaQX8XCDaDc S+gy1LAgJx3hXphO9bIx8uduVkEcXrMPFqP3qSrhBEIEYXA6tMfTCWyI6HZuu747gWWS jvFrQ9R18K0+J3XYb3wGmiZrFbfbOe0aq91vo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sGHAPhnqGGHud6NaCo1ey+GVHjcVF+AvUM5/iOGTweQkHzggKitPLRcV6KTbRmR+5C s31N0CfaaKSMLMhXZKNL61NLqkAvbtR5KpQi+CE/PlmrP67EVHW3y3Cp1+WNqA1U8Z2/ OJs8yyGpbUw3vpPy6+BfFR8sQi8MvEI4Q2bgU= Received: by 10.224.96.220 with SMTP id i28mr11369794qan.135.1262624020110; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from Wastrel.local (d149-67-191-63.try.wideopenwest.com [67.149.63.191]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm17736591iwn.3.2010.01.04.08.53.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 04 Jan 2010 08:53:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B421D10.6070700@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 11:53:36 -0500 From: William Allen Simpson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "The IESG (by way of Paul Hoffman)" CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Last Call: draft-jabley-reverse-servers (Nameservers for IPv4 and IPv6 Reverse Zones) to Proposed Standard References: <0AE9F338-A159-41DF-B29A-A10D0D196305@virtualized.org> In-Reply-To: <0AE9F338-A159-41DF-B29A-A10D0D196305@virtualized.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: David Conrad wrote: > In general, I strongly support this document. > > My only question would be whether it would make sense to use "IP4-SERVERS.ARPA" instead of "IN-ADDR-SERVERS.ARPA" (a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds like my own). > I agree with David. I also question that this would be a "Proposed Standard". I'm wondering how they are going to demonstrate interoperability between multiple implementations -- some sort of Internet in a parallel universe? I suggest this should be an update to BCP52 (RFC 3172): Management Guidelines & Operational Requirements for the Address and Routing Parameter Area Domain ("arpa") From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 10:00:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C003A68FE; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:00:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -91.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-91.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.000, FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 63HQsENdhgUs; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBD23A684C; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRr7b-000NmY-II for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:53:39 +0000 Received: from [2001:4900:1:392:213:20ff:fe1b:3bfe] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRr7S-000NlV-Vw for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:53:31 +0000 Received: from [192.0.39.225] (helo=wlan39-225.mdr.icann.org) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRr7O-0002SF-9C; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:53:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Last Call: draft-jabley-reverse-servers (Nameservers for IPv4 and IPv6 Reverse Zones) to Proposed Standard Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <4B421D10.6070700@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:53:24 -0500 Cc: "The IESG (by way of Paul Hoffman)" , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0AE9F338-A159-41DF-B29A-A10D0D196305@virtualized.org> <4B421D10.6070700@gmail.com> To: William Allen Simpson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.0.39.225 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-01-04, at 11:53, William Allen Simpson wrote: > David Conrad wrote: >> In general, I strongly support this document. >> My only question would be whether it would make sense to use = "IP4-SERVERS.ARPA" instead of "IN-ADDR-SERVERS.ARPA" (a foolish = consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds like my own). > I agree with David. >=20 > I also question that this would be a "Proposed Standard". I'm = wondering > how they are going to demonstrate interoperability between multiple > implementations -- some sort of Internet in a parallel universe? >=20 > I suggest this should be an update to BCP52 (RFC 3172): > Management Guidelines & Operational Requirements for > the Address and Routing Parameter Area Domain ("arpa") Following section 3 of RFC 3172 was the only motivation to put this = document forward for the standards track. Since there is no need for the = document to ever progress from proposed standard to draft standard, = there will be no need to demonstrate interop, etc. It certainly seems possible that updating 3172 could have been another = mechanism. However, modifying 3172 (as opposed to following its rules) = seems likely to be a far more involved, political process; we were = attempting to solve for operational pragmatism rather than philosophical = perfection. Joe 3. Delegation of "arpa" Sub-Domains While the decision as to which protocol elements are loaded into the "arpa" domain, and the hierarchical structure of such protocol elements, remains within the role of the IAB, the role of managing the sub-domain may be delegated by the IAB to an appropriate protocol management entity. The IAB shall only recommend the creation of "arpa" sub-domains corresponding to protocol entities where: - the delegation, and the hierarchical name structure, is described by an IETF Standards Track document [4], and - the use of the "arpa" domain is explicitly recommended in the "IANA Considerations" section of that document. The "IANA Considerations" section should include the name of the subdomain, the rules for how the subdomain is to be administered, and the criteria for entries within the subdomain. From dnsmgr@nexstar.tv Mon Jan 4 10:23:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8198E3A6859 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:23:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -78.425 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-78.425 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=2.188, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LyUuNdN32ATf for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from host-70-45-183-202.onelinkpr.net (host-70-45-183-202.onelinkpr.net [70.45.183.202]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 512913A6826 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 10:23:36 -0800 (PST) From: To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject:Hello dnsext-archive@ietf.org ! 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 12:24:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59BC83A67FD; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:24:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YDxGBXGCpIeU; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26613A6781; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRtJS-000BPt-LW for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:14:02 +0000 Received: from [168.61.5.27] (helo=harry.mail-abuse.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRtJM-000BOa-N7 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:13:56 +0000 Received: from sjc-office-nat-214.mail-abuse.org (gateway1.sjc.mail-abuse.org [168.61.5.81]) by harry.mail-abuse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFC9A9443B; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 20:13:55 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 12:13:55 -0800 From: Douglas Otis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George Barwood CC: Michael Graff , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/4/10 1:24 AM, George Barwood wrote: > On 12/27/09 11:43 AM Michael Graff wrote: > >> I personally think it's a tool issue, and no protocol changes need >> to happen. I don't see why the IETF needs to solve a problem >> using protocol when it's fairly clear to me that any real solution >> involving protocol changes is more or less a non-starter. > > I agree ( now that Michael has been brave enough to put his head > above the parapet ). > > DNS has always recognised that Latin upper and lower case letters are > equivalent, and this has historically been implemented on the server > side. > > There is apparently a need to define a normalisation rule for more > complex equivalences. > > I suggest this is best applied client side, either by humans knowing > the rules, or in software. > > Increasing the complexity of the resolution process strikes me as a > bad idea. Agreed. This could be done using a non-hostname label such as "_here" to handle the DNAME node issue that would be placed within the referenced zone. A new resource record type could produce the same effect, without modifying existing DNS protocol behavior, although it could provide some optimizations. Imagine the mess if zone cloning were used to handle case folding, especially when considering TLDs. Offering a visible feedback to those entering a "non-preferred" form of a name seems like a good way to keep them informed of the "official" site. Allowing a TLD to create "equivalent" domains would then mean all domain owners for that zone would need to acquire multiple certificates, and zones. This is not a nice thing to do. Zone cloning would reduce cache hit rates and reduce performance. This would also mean more systems would be necessary to support existing users, and would offset a few Moore's Law generations of benefits thereby demanding more resources for reduced performance. An attitude perhaps emblematic of monopolies. :^( -Doug From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Mon Jan 4 13:28:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7393A6999 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.956 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.956 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=2.207, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=1.615, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BIur2IzA6FAv for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 189-041-48-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br (189-041-48-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br [189.41.48.247]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA4F3A69CA for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:02 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100104212802.DBA4F3A69CA@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:02 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 13:28:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05973A6999 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.955 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.955 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[FH_DATE_PAST_20XX=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=2.207, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.55, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.672, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.509, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=1.615, RCVD_IN_XBL=2.896, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.617, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=1.316, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qxXQu-MLlPFi for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from 189-041-48-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br (189-041-48-247.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br [189.41.48.247]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A60B3A690D for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:32 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100104212833.4A60B3A690D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:28:32 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 14:11:54 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AA53A69F1; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:11:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8GotTxdz6nnt; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:11:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFCB3A65A6; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:11:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRv0g-000KqV-Iz for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:02:46 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRv0Z-000Kq1-Tf for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:02:40 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 26A192FE8CA1 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:02:36 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters Message-ID: <20100104220236.GD8857@shinkuro.com> References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: No hat. On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 12:13:55PM -0800, Douglas Otis wrote: > Allowing a TLD to create "equivalent" domains would then mean all domain > owners for that zone would need to acquire multiple certificates, and > zones. This is not a nice thing to do. Zone cloning would reduce cache > hit rates and reduce performance. This would also mean more systems > would be necessary to support existing users, and would offset a few > Moore's Law generations of benefits thereby demanding more resources for > reduced performance. An attitude perhaps emblematic of monopolies. :^( The latter remark walks precariously close to dismissing the entire problem with an _ad hominem_ attack on the problem-claimers by claiming they're just interested in profit. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, though. As several people have pointed out in the case at least of domain name variants due to IDNA considerations, the plain fact is that all of the negatives listed above are already problems _today_, except that there is no automatic mechanism to make any of this work and that, in at least some cases, the answer is simply that the user just can't get to the domain that the user can type in. So, as bad as the apparent latent _ad hominem_, the objections aren't even realistic, since they're already true. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 14:26:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0188D3A67CF; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:26:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id trPXh-Uctc0i; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2903A69F2; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRvFL-000M77-0n for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:17:55 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRvFE-000M6m-EI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:17:48 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FBD42FE8CA1 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:17:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:17:45 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" Message-ID: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, As you may recall, Olafur and I announced some time ago that we were planning not to convene a WG meeting in Anaheim unless something significant came up or we had signficant interest expressed. We have determined that the recent discussion of the general topic of making two names completely equivalent in the DNS requires some real-time conversation. We have two options before us. The first is to schedule a session at the Anaheim meeting. The second is to schedule an interim WG virtual meeting. There have been a number of recent such virtual meetings in other WGs, and we think this might be an appropriate thing for us to do. If we were to do this, we would aim for mid-February. It would probably happen at about 10:00 EST, because that seems to provide _fairly_ global availability even though it inconveniences just about everyone (we are painfully aware that Olafur and I get off easy under this suggestion, but if we move it earlier it's too early for the US West Coast and if we move it any later it's way too late for anyone in the broad Asia-Pacific region, whose residents have a significant stake in one aspect of this issue). Note that if we hold the interim, we'll request an Anaheim WG meeting slot anyway in case a follow-up meeting is warranted. We'll decide after the interim whether we need another meeting and, if so, when it should be; but we really anticipate making decisions in this meeting. Scheduling the Anaheim session would really be a hedge. In favour of having a session at Anaheim is that it gives us more lead time to prepare, conforms with IETF conventions, allows us to put faces and names together, and encourages hallway side conversations that can easily result in a better answer than anything that has come up in the meeting rooms. In favour of holding a virtual interim is that it does not require everyone to travel to Califiornia, it can be held sooner, and it might attract some participants who do not plan to be in Anaheim, but who are interested in this area (remember that IDNABIS is not likely to meet, so a significant community of input to this discussion may well not be in Anaheim). We would like participants' feedback on which of these options they prefer, and which of these would be acceptable to them (i.e. would you participate in that option)? We are especially interested in feedback from those who have already committed to write something (or who have already so written) on this topic. From those people, we would _also_ like to know whether you could have a draft prepared in time for a mid-Feb. meeting -- we think drafts would need to be available no later than the end of January, giving participants roughly two weeks for review and thought. Please let us know by the end of this week. We'll announce a decision next Monday. Best regards, Andrew and Olafur -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 14:31:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B44D28C0E2; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:31:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mSyQdhDhnkcj; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFE03A695B; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRvKl-000MX9-Ff for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:23:31 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRvKf-000MWV-JU for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:23:25 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F8002FE8CA1 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:23:24 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:23:22 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Reminder: WGLC in process Message-ID: <20100104222322.GF8857@crankycanuck.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, This is a reminder that we have two WGLC in process. Both close on Friday. We have had a too-small number of reviews for the axfr-clarify document. Please review it. The silence on the procedural documents to fix the registry and change the rules for algorithm number assignment has been deafening. More than one person suggested, during LC on the GOST assignment, that we could wait for the procedural changes to come into place. It would be nice if at least those who thought those procedural changes would be helpful would now review those documents. Thanks and best for 2010, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 15:17:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1A63A69D6; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4L0GTIXdXC8w; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADC73A682A; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRw1G-000Pvw-Su for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:07:26 +0000 Received: from [209.85.216.204] (helo=mail-px0-f204.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRw19-000PvI-6g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:07:19 +0000 Received: by pxi42 with SMTP id 42so10758252pxi.5 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:07:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ozlb45rOD1WrDyS0wspY+0Tf6iGGUXJeh2Glba9Pf0w=; b=VheuOJxVJctqP42EVpsmyQAY9+VnllQj2CIhfGD95f5rGdY18Xa3ll+6TQ77nZ39Fm xM0G/SF02WPLj7/68KycHKxyFPyiH8yZT1ijxLarHXCmuxUWhrnIvHI6Dw3ne42kzP0q ++9jm+HvtJV206zELsHZpihHXY6/cwrHPVT68= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=AcMXdKqFj0JiJsI99+8nhwDDZpODe9cfE62OwUKxmO1ZveIGFZ0pyfQyHO60i3BFhv Yij2Bcgc8+68AIkeQgJIbzDqOZkuH3VkgtWYs5ZDtKe7D6ZOggnQrnv/wIg7TsGVPIdS dkr1X3t+3dFASi/J1uJV0kGR+HHfQUFRSLVgg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.208.5 with SMTP id f5mr2359120wfg.268.1262646438824; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:07:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:07:18 -0800 Message-ID: <6e04e83a1001041507u684cab89od353c2cd894a8967@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" From: Ted Hardie To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > In favour of holding a virtual interim is that it does not require > everyone to travel to Califiornia, it can be held sooner, and it might > attract some participants who do not plan to be in Anaheim, but who > are interested in this area (remember that IDNABIS is not likely to > meet, so a significant community of input to this discussion may well > not be in Anaheim). > That sort-of assumes that the folks involved in IDNABIS would have no other reason to be in Anaheim, which does not match my personal sense of IDNABIS. Perhaps more importantly, I think a conversation on "name equivalence" held in the context of an IETF is more likely to get you discussion of what kinds of equivalence different applications and deployments desire. I don't think you'll get that in a virtual meeting. My personal suggestion would be to run this as a pseudo-BoF. Do the same kinds of outreach (to APPs, to RAI, etc.) that you would do for a BoF in this space, and expect some of the same kinds of cross-area tourist activity. In this particular case, I personally think that would be a good thing. Two cents from someone who hasn't promised anything, Ted From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 15:37:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1821128C12F; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:37:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ctJa6fDWqXeW; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6918028C12E; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRwOa-0002NZ-Kf for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:31:32 +0000 Received: from [195.54.233.70] (helo=hutch.rfc1035.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRwOU-0002Mz-BQ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:31:26 +0000 Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jim) by hutch.rfc1035.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 863FA154283B; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 23:31:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: From: Jim Reid To: Andrew Sullivan In-Reply-To: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 23:31:23 +0000 References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 4 Jan 2010, at 22:17, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > The second is to schedule an interim WG virtual meeting. There have > been a number of recent such virtual meetings in other WGs, and we > think this might be an appropriate thing for us to do. If we were to > do this, we would aim for mid-February. It would probably happen at > about 10:00 EST I think this would be a good idea. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 16:04:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB6028C10C; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:04:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vVqKsJqIEM5u; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414533A6801; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRwpA-0004LO-Uv for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:59:00 +0000 Received: from [168.61.5.27] (helo=harry.mail-abuse.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRwp4-0004L5-Sf for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:58:54 +0000 Received: from sjc-office-nat-214.mail-abuse.org (gateway1.sjc.mail-abuse.org [168.61.5.81]) by harry.mail-abuse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79478A9443B; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 23:58:54 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4B4280BE.3030909@mail-abuse.org> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:58:54 -0800 From: Douglas Otis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> <20100104220236.GD8857@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100104220236.GD8857@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/4/10 2:02 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > No hat. > > On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 12:13:55PM -0800, Douglas Otis wrote: > >> Allowing a TLD to create "equivalent" domains would then mean all domain >> owners for that zone would need to acquire multiple certificates, and >> zones. This is not a nice thing to do. Zone cloning would reduce cache >> hit rates and reduce performance. This would also mean more systems >> would be necessary to support existing users, and would offset a few >> Moore's Law generations of benefits thereby demanding more resources for >> reduced performance. An attitude perhaps emblematic of monopolies. :^( > > The latter remark walks precariously close to dismissing the entire > problem with an _ad hominem_ attack on the problem-claimers by > claiming they're just interested in profit. I'm sure you didn't mean > it that way, though. > > As several people have pointed out in the case at least of domain name > variants due to IDNA considerations, the plain fact is that all of the > negatives listed above are already problems _today_, except that there > is no automatic mechanism to make any of this work and that, in at > least some cases, the answer is simply that the user just can't get to > the domain that the user can type in. So, as bad as the apparent > latent _ad hominem_, the objections aren't even realistic, since > they're already true. Andrew, While we agree there is a problem, asking for a specific solution "as-if" it were the _only_ solution motivated the comment based largely upon uncontested issues, IMHO. Wasting resources has been emblematic behavior of those not challenged by competition. Even assuming there was some practical manner in which to introduce zone cloning, affected users may not be happy with its resource costs. My comments were not intended to play on emotions nor to denigrate those posing a question presupposing a zone cloning solution. Not starting with a reasonable problem statement may have prematurely narrowed discussions with respect to zone cloning being seen as the only viable solution for syntactic or synonymic uncertainty confronting the use of IDNA. Narrowing focus in this manner does preclude consideration of what might be less problematic and wasteful alternatives. ACE label accommodation of Unicode in DNS was a disruptive change for many clients. Timidity in not wanting to go back to those that just implemented these changes and ask for more is understandable. However, reliance upon a zone cloning solution in DNS will further increase future difficulties when consolidating name resolution services. -Doug From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 16:26:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091393A6837; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:26:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xztWb+k5wLID; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328FB3A62C1; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:26:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRx8A-0006JZ-6S for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:18:38 +0000 Received: from [65.99.1.130] (helo=abenaki.wabanaki.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NRx82-0006Io-9l for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:18:30 +0000 Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-241-43-7.twcny.res.rr.com [67.241.43.7]) by abenaki.wabanaki.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o050FZTA031730; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:15:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4B42854D.3020106@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:18:21 -0500 From: Eric Brunner-Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Andrew, My preference is for the longer lead time and the face to face. Not all of the use case scenarios arise out of an IDNAbis necessity for a vehicle for handling variants. Few, if any, of the policy based requests for mechanism will consider anything other than names, or side effects. At ICANN Seoul a large fraction of the policy based requestors assumed that DNAME did it all, which is not the case. Eric From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 22:16:51 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DEC3A67FD; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:16:50 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lb4DMetELGAZ; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE413A635F; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NS2Wg-0009Ey-2R for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:04:18 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NS2WQ-0009Ds-VY for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:04:12 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:03:57 +0800 Message-ID: <462671437.19746@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:03:57 +0800 Message-ID: <88A2584DBF4946F39239C57D3D5F60B5@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: "Andrew Sullivan" , References: <462644784.09419@cnnic.cn> Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 14:04:20 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkFuZHJldyBTdWxsaXZhbiIg PGFqc0BzaGlua3Vyby5jb20+DQpUbzogPG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTZW50 OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDA1LCAyMDEwIDY6MTcgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFtkbnNleHRdIFdH IG1lZXRpbmcgb3IgaW50ZXJpbSBtZWV0aW5nIGFib3V0ICJuYW1lIGVxdWl2YWxlbmNlIg0KDQoN Cj4gRGVhciBjb2xsZWFndWVzLA0KPiANCj4gQXMgeW91IG1heSByZWNhbGwsIE9sYWZ1ciBhbmQg SSBhbm5vdW5jZWQgc29tZSB0aW1lIGFnbyB0aGF0IHdlIHdlcmUNCj4gcGxhbm5pbmcgbm90IHRv IGNvbnZlbmUgYSBXRyBtZWV0aW5nIGluIEFuYWhlaW0gdW5sZXNzIHNvbWV0aGluZw0KPiBzaWdu aWZpY2FudCBjYW1lIHVwIG9yIHdlIGhhZCBzaWduZmljYW50IGludGVyZXN0IGV4cHJlc3NlZC4N Cj4gDQo+IFdlIGhhdmUgZGV0ZXJtaW5lZCB0aGF0IHRoZSByZWNlbnQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBvZiB0 aGUgZ2VuZXJhbCB0b3BpYyBvZg0KPiBtYWtpbmcgdHdvIG5hbWVzIGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgZXF1aXZh bGVudCBpbiB0aGUgRE5TIHJlcXVpcmVzIHNvbWUNCj4gcmVhbC10aW1lIGNvbnZlcnNhdGlvbi4g IFdlIGhhdmUgdHdvIG9wdGlvbnMgYmVmb3JlIHVzLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIGZpcnN0IGlzIHRvIHNj aGVkdWxlIGEgc2Vzc2lvbiBhdCB0aGUgQW5haGVpbSBtZWV0aW5nLg0KDQorMQ0KDQo+IA0KPiBU aGUgc2Vjb25kIGlzIHRvIHNjaGVkdWxlIGFuIGludGVyaW0gV0cgdmlydHVhbCBtZWV0aW5nLiAg DQoNCisxDQoNCm1heWJlLCByZW5hbWUgIiB0d28gb3B0aW9ucyIgdG8gInR3byBzdGVwcyINCg0K c3RlcCAxOiAgc2NoZWR1bGUgYW4gaW50ZXJpbSBXRyB2aXJ0dWFsIG1lZXRpbmcNCnNldHAgMjog IHNjaGVkdWxlIGEgc2Vzc2lvbiBhdCB0aGUgQW5haGVpbSBtZWV0aW5nDQoNCg0KWWFvIEppYW5r YW5nDQo= From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 4 22:45:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D667A3A67F4; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:45:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JurD1eZh+V8S; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F423A659A; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 22:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NS34S-000CAs-TL for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:39:12 +0000 Received: from [171.71.176.70] (helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NS34N-000CAA-03 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:39:07 +0000 Authentication-Results: sj-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEABhtQkurRN+J/2dsb2JhbAC+K5RehDAE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,503,1257120000"; d="scan'208";a="284935829" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Jan 2010 06:39:05 +0000 Received: from xbh-ams-101.cisco.com (xbh-ams-101.cisco.com [144.254.74.71]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o056d4E7007720; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:39:05 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-101.cisco.com ([144.254.231.93]) by xbh-ams-101.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:39:03 +0100 Received: from [192.165.72.14] ([10.55.95.7]) by xfe-ams-101.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:39:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <6e04e83a1001041507u684cab89od353c2cd894a8967@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:39:03 +0100 Cc: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <484A7427-53AA-434B-8D6F-6F5D03CC2F48@cisco.com> References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> <6e04e83a1001041507u684cab89od353c2cd894a8967@mail.gmail.com> To: Ted Hardie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2010 06:39:03.0589 (UTC) FILETIME=[C592BD50:01CA8DD1] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 5 jan 2010, at 00.07, Ted Hardie wrote: > That sort-of assumes that the folks involved in IDNABIS would have no > other reason to be in Anaheim, which does not match my personal > sense of IDNABIS. I think a number of IDNABIS people will be in Anaheim. I am for example = planning to be there. Patrik From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jan 5 06:36:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A8E28C11B for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:36:05 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: VIAGRA \256 Official Resel[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -31.122 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-31.122 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FAKE_HELO_MAIL_COM=1.317, FAKE_HELO_MAIL_COM_DOM=3.199, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lQEjy0dM4mlV for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx50.mail.com (95-190-80-206-xdsl-dynamic.kuzbass.net [95.190.80.206]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 553B03A63C9 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:36:01 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA ® Official Reseller To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: For dnsext-archive! 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 5 07:00:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04823A6857; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:00:25 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: <7YiqYIdythRC> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char E4 hex): To: Patrik F\344ltstr\366m ) id 1NSAkm-0007zc-Ov for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:51:24 +0000 Received: from [192.245.12.227] (helo=balder-227.proper.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSAkg-0007yt-Gh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:51:18 +0000 Received: from [10.20.30.158] (75-101-30-90.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.30.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o05Ep8nB067651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:51:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <484A7427-53AA-434B-8D6F-6F5D03CC2F48@cisco.com> References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> <6e04e83a1001041507u684cab89od353c2cd894a8967@mail.gmail.com> <484A7427-53AA-434B-8D6F-6F5D03CC2F48@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:51:07 -0800 To: Patrik Fältström , Ted Hardie From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" Cc: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 7:39 AM +0100 1/5/10, Patrik Fältström wrote: >On 5 jan 2010, at 00.07, Ted Hardie wrote: > >> That sort-of assumes that the folks involved in IDNABIS would have no >> other reason to be in Anaheim, which does not match my personal >> sense of IDNABIS. > >I think a number of IDNABIS people will be in Anaheim. I am for example planning to be there. The registries for whom IDNAbis has caused new problems that require "name equivalence" are probably not going to be in Anaheim, given that they have not been active at almost any other IETF meeting since Dublin. The registries for whom IDNA2003 and IDNAbis has always caused problems that require "name equivalence" already have people on namedroppers. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 5 07:06:52 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFE13A6933; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:06:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLCMMhJdrQfF; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1813A67DB; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:06:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSAtT-0009JW-Tv for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:00:23 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSAtM-0009Ia-GR for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:00:16 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A215F2FE8CA1 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:00:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:00:13 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters Message-ID: <20100105150011.GK8857@shinkuro.com> References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> <20100104220236.GD8857@shinkuro.com> <4B4280BE.3030909@mail-abuse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B4280BE.3030909@mail-abuse.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 03:58:54PM -0800, Douglas Otis wrote: > While we agree there is a problem, asking for a specific solution > "as-if" it were the _only_ solution motivated the comment based largely > upon uncontested issues, IMHO. I don't understand: what specific solution do you think is being asked for? I have asked people to _think about_ and _discuss_ one possible general area where we might make an extension to the DNS. One result of that thinking and discussion could surely be, "We think this is a bad idea and we shouldn't do anything (more) here." It's perfectly legitimate to take the position that nothing should be done. In my view (and I say this not just as an individual, but also in my capacity as a chair), it is quite another matter to suggest that the very question is wrong, that we shouldn't even talk about it, and that the only reason anyone might be interested in this is out of some monopoly interest. On a personal, no-hat note, the charge of monopolism particularly bothers me in this case, because it's a complete red herring. _Someone_ is going to have to publish a given zone, and though you can whittle away at how many things that body does, zone publication is still a natural monopoly. Sprinkling magical competition dust over such monpopolies, as anyone with a passing acquaintance with economic history knows, mostly just increases costs, diminshes benefits, and usually results in broken service. > Not starting with a reasonable problem statement may have prematurely > narrowed discussions with respect to zone cloning being seen as the only > viable solution for syntactic or synonymic uncertainty confronting the > use of IDNA. Two things about this remark: 1. We are groping our way _toward_ a problem statement. That's why we're having a discussion. I take seriously the objection that the problem is underdefined right now. Yes, we need to fix that, but we're not going to do it by refusing to talk about what the problem and solution spaces might look like. 2. This WG discusses changes to the DNS protocols. It is not a forum for general discussion of ways to accomplish fun things with namespaces. One of the conclusions we might draw is, "Yes, there is an interesting problem here, and it needs to be fixed, and we thing $SOMEONE should do it," where $SOMEONE is not-us and maybe a new WG or maybe an existing WG or maybe implementers of tools or maybe some class of people I haven't thought of. > ACE label accommodation of Unicode in DNS was a disruptive change for > many clients. Timidity in not wanting to go back to those that just > implemented these changes and ask for more is understandable. Maybe you're unaware that an entire WG is in the throes of finishing up, which WG was chartered precisely to ask those that just implemented to go back and do something else, more complicated; and that the publication of the resulting documents is held up exactly because of the angry reaction from implementers about backward-incompatible changes. There are practical issues on all sides. All we can do is work on the issues for which we are responsible, and come back with our best efforts. Surely we can do better than, "Not a problem! Evil monopolist! Go away!" A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jan 5 07:16:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EA428C0E4 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:16:09 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: VIAGRA \256 Official Resel[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -34.477 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-34.477 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nizANoI3bvW1 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:16:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta.email.webmd.com (unknown [200.189.232.125]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 971813A692B for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:15:56 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA ® Official Reseller To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: For dnsext-archive! 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 5 08:42:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D368D28C115; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:42:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bT8vVu5PCBi; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86843A682B; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSCMe-000N1w-Hf for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:34:36 +0000 Received: from [65.99.1.130] (helo=abenaki.wabanaki.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSCMY-000N15-7O for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:34:30 +0000 Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-241-43-7.twcny.res.rr.com [67.241.43.7]) by abenaki.wabanaki.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o05GVPDZ038314; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:31:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4B436A0D.70707@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:34:21 -0500 From: Eric Brunner-Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> <20100104220236.GD8857@shinkuro.com> <4B4280BE.3030909@mail-abuse.org> <20100105150011.GK8857@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100105150011.GK8857@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/5/10 10:00 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 03:58:54PM -0800, Douglas Otis wrote: ... _Someone_ is going to have to publish a given > zone, and though you can whittle away at how many things that body > does, zone publication is still a natural monopoly. Well, not to quibble completely unnecessarily, the original SRS proposal (Crispen, Crocker, Gaetano) did envision competition in the "registry function", rather than in the "registrar function", which is the model the US DoC selected for attempting to transform a competitive, single-source contract (the successor to the SRI-NIC contract) into a competitive market. So, as is, the registries are all monopolies. Assuming that, hypothetically, VGRS operated the [a-m] spindles for some zone, and CORE operated the [n-z] spindles for the same zone, the construction of a single complete zone file from the union of two disjoint partial zone file fragments has multiple solutions. So, not a "natural monopoly", but pretty natural assuming the SRS never ment shared _registry_ service, and always ment shared [access to unshared] registry service. There's probably only the four or so of us who remember. Sprinkling > magical competition dust over such monpopolies, as anyone with a > passing acquaintance with economic history knows, mostly just > increases costs, diminshes benefits, and usually results in broken > service. Note, it isn't unreasonable to revisit the early Clinton administration deregulation decision and return to a monopoly registry service. The only unreasonable part is leaving that monopoly in the hands of an unregulated for-profit private actor. >> Not starting with a reasonable problem statement may have prematurely >> narrowed discussions with respect to zone cloning being seen as the only >> viable solution for syntactic or synonymic uncertainty confronting the >> use of IDNA. > > Two things about this remark: > > 1. We are groping our way _toward_ a problem statement. That's > why we're having a discussion. I take seriously the objection > that the problem is underdefined right now. Yes, we need to fix > that, but we're not going to do it by refusing to talk about what > the problem and solution spaces might look like. Actually I think it is overspecified if the problem scope is restricted to "variants", I think the area of application is larger, and as an example, when proposing .nyc (it went to the City on 12/23), I proposed that the projections of two other zones (.museum and .coop) in either the flat, or hierarchical namespace(s) of .nyc be present by policy, and ease of implementation suggests that each registrant have the choice of managing only one set of resources for which two or more names map to. For those keeping score, this is an application of the reciprocal cross registration that CNNIC, TWNIC, HKNIC and MANIC proposed to ensure that "unbundled" registrations resolved correctly across the four CDNC participant registries in mid-2001. Registry scoped bundling (of SC/TC mappings) is an alternative mechanism, and the one deployed today. > > 2. This WG discusses changes to the DNS protocols. It is not a > forum for general discussion of ways to accomplish fun things with > namespaces. One of the conclusions we might draw is, "Yes, there > is an interesting problem here, and it needs to be fixed, and we > thing $SOMEONE should do it," where $SOMEONE is not-us and maybe a > new WG or maybe an existing WG or maybe implementers of tools or > maybe some class of people I haven't thought of. +1. >> ACE label accommodation of Unicode in DNS was a disruptive change for >> many clients. Timidity in not wanting to go back to those that just >> implemented these changes and ask for more is understandable. > > Maybe you're unaware that an entire WG is in the throes of finishing > up, which WG was chartered precisely to ask those that just > implemented to go back and do something else, more complicated; and > that the publication of the resulting documents is held up exactly > because of the angry reaction from implementers about > backward-incompatible changes. There are practical issues on all > sides. All we can do is work on the issues for which we are > responsible, and come back with our best efforts. Surely we can do > better than, "Not a problem! Evil monopolist! Go away!" > > A +1. Eric From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 5 11:58:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B5E3A67A8; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:58:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QFOv5-eeQnRV; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5093A68DA; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSFQ3-000KVT-Id for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:50:19 +0000 Received: from [168.61.5.27] (helo=harry.mail-abuse.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSFPw-000KUQ-LP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:50:12 +0000 Received: from farside-dotis.local (gateway1.sjc.mail-abuse.org [168.61.5.81]) by harry.mail-abuse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2554BA9443B; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:50:12 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4B4397F3.6090300@mail-abuse.org> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:50:11 -0800 From: Douglas Otis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] we've been assuming that only one label matters References: <4B350F07.5050705@gis.net> <31698.1261770900@nsa.vix.com> <86075.1261848395@nsa.vix.com> <4B374878.7040002@isc.org> <1030A6E2AEBD4E0BA09498EE7EB9599C@localhost> <4B424C03.6070308@mail-abuse.org> <20100104220236.GD8857@shinkuro.com> <4B4280BE.3030909@mail-abuse.org> <20100105150011.GK8857@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100105150011.GK8857@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/5/10 7:00 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 03:58:54PM -0800, Douglas Otis wrote: >> While we agree there is a problem, asking for a specific solution >> "as-if" it were the _only_ solution motivated the comment based >> largely upon uncontested issues, IMHO. > > I don't understand: what specific solution do you think is being > asked for? Paul Hoffman's statement on 12/14/09: After denouncing a suggestion that application layer redirection might offer a solution he said: "For those who are on namedroppers but not IDNAbis: think of the two FQDNs with a single owner who wants the two names to be synonyms. ibm.com and ibm.net is a reasonable example. It does not matter how the two names came into existence; in fact, that is a rathole that is not relevant to the question." This concept has since been called "zone cloning" or "cloning zones". Zone cloning might place burdens upon users when applied at the TLD, which, was the motivation for seeking a better solution, as explained in Hiroshima. > I have asked people to _think about_ and _discuss_ one possible > general area where we might make an extension to the DNS. One result > of that thinking and discussion could surely be, "We think this is a > bad idea and we shouldn't do anything (more) here." Of course, more can be done. Solutions other than zone cloning have been offered as well. Can they be discussed as well? Whether a solution is found on the client or the server appears to be the crux of the matter. This _does_ require an understanding as to why two names came into existence, where implementing a redirection rather than a zone cloning mechanism would conserve resources. In addition, any client side solution would provide better scaling characteristics as well. There also appears to be misconceptions with respect to the resource impact zone cloning at the TLD or SLD could entail. > It's perfectly legitimate to take the position that nothing should > be done. In my view (and I say this not just as an individual, but > also in my capacity as a chair), it is quite another matter to > suggest that the very question is wrong, that we shouldn't even talk > about it, and that the only reason anyone might be interested in this > is out of some monopoly interest. You have misunderstood. There are consumer related issues where monopolies have been emblematically insensitive. As such, these areas of likely insensitivity should not be overlooked, especially in respect to requisite resources. > On a personal, no-hat note, the charge of monopolism particularly > bothers me in this case, because it's a complete red herring. > _Someone_ is going to have to publish a given zone, and though you > can whittle away at how many things that body does, zone publication > is still a natural monopoly. Sprinkling magical competition dust > over such monpopolies, as anyone with a passing acquaintance with > economic history knows, mostly just increases costs, diminshes > benefits, and usually results in broken service. The comment was intended to make proponents of a zone cloning solution sensitive to resource impacts this could have on those then needing to publish multiple domain names under a list of TLD and SLD cloned names. A zone cloning solution will subsequently require a significant increase in the number of servers required to support DNS and the reliant services. This group should remain sensitive to the impact upon requisite resources. >> Not starting with a reasonable problem statement may have >> prematurely narrowed discussions with respect to zone cloning >> being seen as the only viable solution for syntactic or synonymic >> uncertainty confronting the use of IDNA. > > Two things about this remark: > > 1. We are groping our way _toward_ a problem statement. That's why > we're having a discussion. I take seriously the objection that the > problem is underdefined right now. Yes, we need to fix that, but > we're not going to do it by refusing to talk about what the problem > and solution spaces might look like. Such as why multiple names exist? > 2. This WG discusses changes to the DNS protocols. It is not a > forum for general discussion of ways to accomplish fun things with > namespaces. One of the conclusions we might draw is, "Yes, there is > an interesting problem here, and it needs to be fixed, and we thing > $SOMEONE should do it," where $SOMEONE is not-us and maybe a new WG > or maybe an existing WG or maybe implementers of tools or maybe some > class of people I haven't thought of. > >> ACE label accommodation of Unicode in DNS was a disruptive change >> for many clients. Timidity in not wanting to go back to those >> that just implemented these changes and ask for more is >> understandable. > > Maybe you're unaware that an entire WG is in the throes of finishing > up, which WG was chartered precisely to ask those that just > implemented to go back and do something else, more complicated; and > that the publication of the resulting documents is held up exactly > because of the angry reaction from implementers about > backward-incompatible changes. There are practical issues on all > sides. All we can do is work on the issues for which we are > responsible, and come back with our best efforts. Surely we can do > better than, "Not a problem! Evil monopolist! Go away!" Agreed. There is no desire to make anyone's task more difficult, but that alone should not determine the ultimate architecture. -Doug From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jan 5 13:36:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F6B3A691B; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:36:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5VdfiBfMrTwV; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615F43A690D; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSGx7-0006Ky-Ey for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:28:33 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.215] (helo=exprod7og114.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSGx1-0006KS-Ak for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:28:27 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob114.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0Ou+kErYKJKDaUtVBt6X6678t/W+UrJ@postini.com; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 13:28:27 PST Received: from wave.ddns.nominum.com (wave.ddns.nominum.com [64.89.225.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14FB01B82B0 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:28:25 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Wellington Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:28:23 -0800 Message-Id: To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I generally approve of the document going forward, except for comments = on section 3.4. The text: Name compression in an AXFR message MUST preserve the case of the original domain name. is unclear, and seems to make incorrect assumptions about general name server behavior. With respect to AXFR, the relevant point is that name compression preserve the case of the domain name as known by the name server, which may or may not be the original domain name as configured by the zone operator. RFC 1034, section 3.1 (as referenced), says: When you receive a domain name or label, you should preserve its case. This says "should", so is not mandatory, and doesn't specifically refer to AXFR, so any changes to this shouldn't be in an AXFR clarify document. While most name server implementations attempt to preserve case whenever possible, making full case preservation mandatory would be a major undertaking. Authoritative name servers generally do not store fully qualified owner names; they store names relative to the zone origin. To use BIND as an example, when configuring the zone "example.com.", it doesn't matter if a record with the name "A.EXAMPLE.COM." is specified in the zone file; the name will be stored relative to the zone name, and the original case cannot be recovered for the purposes of AXFR. Additionally, authoritative name servers generally do not store a separate copy of the owner name for each record associated with it. So, if records are present for "abc.example.com.", "ABC.example.com.", and "aBc.example.com.", there is no way to transmit each record with its original case. If there is a "MUST" requirement for servers to fully preserve case of all records, that should be in a new general clarification document (which I would think was a bad idea), not a clarification of AXFR. Brian= From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jan 5 15:07:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD003A657C for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:07:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.788 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cUSMgxDOOA6e for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc-242-75-45-190.cm.vtr.net (pc-242-75-45-190.cm.vtr.net [190.45.75.242]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E72833A6893 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100105230737.E72833A6893@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:07:37 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 05:39:38 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD413A6882 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:39:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -32.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aDMfKiRjxxD4 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from 135-209.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch (135-209.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch [85.3.209.135]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF563A67FE for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:39:35 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100106133935.9DF563A67FE@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:39:35 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Wed Jan 6 06:51:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E1C3A677C for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.666 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.666 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PP18OGnI+UQf for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from adsl-89-134-25-234.monradsl.monornet.hu (adsl-89-134-25-234.monradsl.monornet.hu [89.134.25.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E0563A6849 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100106145141.0E0563A6849@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:40 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 06:51:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6953A6850 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.666 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.666 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VyADE2bumFsr for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from adsl-89-134-25-234.monradsl.monornet.hu (adsl-89-134-25-234.monradsl.monornet.hu [89.134.25.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B2D3A677C for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:45 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100106145145.A6B2D3A677C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 06:51:45 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 12:13:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85AF328C13F; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:13:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id txTdf+DvBmau; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854253A6778; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSc7Y-000CgZ-2V for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:04:44 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSc7R-000Cfm-Io for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:04:37 +0000 Received: from [10.31.200.252] (gatt.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o06K5jWv025328; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:05:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:59:18 -0500 To: Brian Wellington From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: (First, Niall - thanks for the nits. I'm just back from being in a cave for 2 weeks.) As to what Brian raises: We know this document has been around a while, making dredging up old threads on it hard. There was something in the past that made case preservation a hot issue - why it was featured here with a MUST. Looking through my archives, in March 2008 there was a message by Robert Elz that referred to a comment by Mark Andrews about case preservation being something of interest in AXFR and no where else. I'll lay this out in case someone has a better memory of this. But, consider this too - "original" was probably the wrong term to use, as I was thinking "original wrt AXFR server" and not original wrt zone admin (aka DNSSEC's "original"). What I had envisioned was if the AXFR server sees AbC.server.example., aaa.server.example., back.SERVER.example. and cab.SERVER.example., then there would be two "compression chains: position in message label 20 example. 100 aaa.server."20" 200 aBc."104" (100+"aaa" = position 104) 300 back.SERVER."20" 400 cab."305" (300+"back" = position 305) Maybe that's unrealistic too. But that's what I had meant. Brian - is this also unrealistic? Should this discussion just be dropped? Can we do anything to promote case preservation in AXFRs at all or is it a lost cause? At 13:28 -0800 1/5/10, Brian Wellington wrote: >I generally approve of the document going forward, except for >comments on section 3.4. > >The text: > > Name compression in an AXFR message MUST preserve the case of the > original domain name. > >is unclear, and seems to make incorrect assumptions about general name >server behavior. With respect to AXFR, the relevant point is that name >compression preserve the case of the domain name as known by the name >server, which may or may not be the original domain name as configured >by the zone operator. > >RFC 1034, section 3.1 (as referenced), says: > > When you receive a domain name or label, you should preserve its case. > >This says "should", so is not mandatory, and doesn't specifically refer >to AXFR, so any changes to this shouldn't be in an AXFR clarify >document. > >While most name server implementations attempt to preserve case whenever >possible, making full case preservation mandatory would be a major >undertaking. > >Authoritative name servers generally do not store fully qualified owner >names; they store names relative to the zone origin. To use BIND as an >example, when configuring the zone "example.com.", it doesn't matter if >a record with the name "A.EXAMPLE.COM." is specified in the zone file; >the name will be stored relative to the zone name, and the original case >cannot be recovered for the purposes of AXFR. > >Additionally, authoritative name servers generally do not store a >separate copy of the owner name for each record associated with it. So, >if records are present for "abc.example.com.", "ABC.example.com.", and >"aBc.example.com.", there is no way to transmit each record with its >original case. > >If there is a "MUST" requirement for servers to fully preserve case of >all records, that should be in a new general clarification document >(which I would think was a bad idea), not a clarification of AXFR. > >Brian -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 As with IPv6, the problem with the deployment of frictionless surfaces is that they're not getting traction. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 12:35:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4FD3A693F; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:35:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.698, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sY-RfKSgWRAq; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0802A3A685B; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NScQi-000FFv-AE for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:24:32 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.155] (helo=exprod7og101.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NScQb-000FFW-SY for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:24:25 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob101.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0Txd9gADITRebWJwTqqQ9PvWchjluj2@postini.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:24:25 PST Received: from wave.ddns.nominum.com (wave.ddns.nominum.com [64.89.225.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE5C1B82B8; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:24:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Brian Wellington In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:24:23 -0800 Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> References: To: Edward Lewis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: > (First, Niall - thanks for the nits. I'm just back from being in a = cave for 2 weeks.) >=20 > As to what Brian raises: >=20 > We know this document has been around a while, making dredging up old = threads on it hard. There was something in the past that made case = preservation a hot issue - why it was featured here with a MUST. >=20 > Looking through my archives, in March 2008 there was a message by = Robert Elz that referred to a comment by Mark Andrews about case = preservation being something of interest in AXFR and no where else. I'll = lay this out in case someone has a better memory of this. The only messages I'm seeing from then are related to 0x20, which = shouldn't have any effect on AXFR, but I'm also not seeing a reference = to a comment from Mark Andrews. Was this on namedroppers or some other = list? > But, consider this too - "original" was probably the wrong term to = use, as I was thinking "original wrt AXFR server" and not original wrt = zone admin (aka DNSSEC's "original"). OK. If the wording was clearer, it would be better. > What I had envisioned was if the AXFR server sees AbC.server.example., = aaa.server.example., back.SERVER.example. and cab.SERVER.example., then = there would be two "compression chains: >=20 > position in message label > 20 example. > 100 aaa.server."20" > 200 aBc."104" (100+"aaa" =3D position 104) > 300 back.SERVER."20" > 400 cab."305" (300+"back" =3D position 305) >=20 > Maybe that's unrealistic too. But that's what I had meant. Brian - = is this also unrealistic? Should this discussion just be dropped? Can = we do anything to promote case preservation in AXFRs at all or is it a = lost cause? I believe this is realistic, but am having trouble figuring out why this = is important, given that even if the case is preserved across AXFR, it's = not going to be preserved in query responses. In order for this to be = meaningful, we'd also need to change IXFR, DDNS, and who knows what = else. This also (to me, at least) falls outside of the scope of a = clarification, as I don't know of any servers that do this currently. = Maybe the right solution is to remove this from axfr-clarify, and create = a document clarifying name compression in general (if there is a = compelling reason to make this change at all). Brian > At 13:28 -0800 1/5/10, Brian Wellington wrote: >> I generally approve of the document going forward, except for = comments on section 3.4. >>=20 >> The text: >>=20 >> Name compression in an AXFR message MUST preserve the case of the >> original domain name. >>=20 >> is unclear, and seems to make incorrect assumptions about general = name >> server behavior. With respect to AXFR, the relevant point is that = name >> compression preserve the case of the domain name as known by the name >> server, which may or may not be the original domain name as = configured >> by the zone operator. >>=20 >> RFC 1034, section 3.1 (as referenced), says: >>=20 >> When you receive a domain name or label, you should preserve its = case. >>=20 >> This says "should", so is not mandatory, and doesn't specifically = refer >> to AXFR, so any changes to this shouldn't be in an AXFR clarify >> document. >>=20 >> While most name server implementations attempt to preserve case = whenever >> possible, making full case preservation mandatory would be a major >> undertaking. >>=20 >> Authoritative name servers generally do not store fully qualified = owner >> names; they store names relative to the zone origin. To use BIND as = an >> example, when configuring the zone "example.com.", it doesn't matter = if >> a record with the name "A.EXAMPLE.COM." is specified in the zone = file; >> the name will be stored relative to the zone name, and the original = case >> cannot be recovered for the purposes of AXFR. >>=20 >> Additionally, authoritative name servers generally do not store a >> separate copy of the owner name for each record associated with it. = So, >> if records are present for "abc.example.com.", "ABC.example.com.", = and >> "aBc.example.com.", there is no way to transmit each record with its >> original case. >>=20 >> If there is a "MUST" requirement for servers to fully preserve case = of >> all records, that should be in a new general clarification document >> (which I would think was a bad idea), not a clarification of AXFR. >>=20 >> Brian >=20 > --=20 > = -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- > Edward Lewis > NeuStar You can leave a voice message at = +1-571-434-5468 >=20 > As with IPv6, the problem with the deployment of frictionless surfaces = is > that they're not getting traction. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 12:54:35 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D209B3A6965; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:54:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.739 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.860, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WVFQxFtAvT+5; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D743A6962; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NScog-000Iht-Fn for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:49:18 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NScoa-000IhL-Eo for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 20:49:12 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B57612FE8CA1 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:49:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:49:08 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Message-ID: <20100106204907.GB8857@shinkuro.com> References: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 12:24:23PM -0800, Brian Wellington wrote: > > On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: > > > But, consider this too - "original" was probably the wrong term to use, as I was thinking "original wrt AXFR server" and not original wrt zone admin (aka DNSSEC's "original"). > > OK. If the wording was clearer, it would be better. > It seems to me the intention is that the server providing the AXFR answer should provide the entire zone in exactly the case it holds the data. It should not transmit the zone such that case distinctions that are in the server's copy of the zone are lost. Is that right? And if so, is just saying it that way enough of a clarification? A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 13:11:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3DA28C15C; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:11:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HSjRa1Okm7S6; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C55528C16A; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSd5F-000LFD-DP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:06:25 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSd58-000LEh-H3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:06:18 +0000 Received: from [10.31.200.252] (mail.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o06L7Shq025812; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:07:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> References: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:52:40 -0500 To: Brian Wellington From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Cc: Edward Lewis , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 12:24 -0800 1/6/10, Brian Wellington wrote: 1. >...but am having trouble figuring out why this is important... 2. >I don't know of any servers that do this currently. Good reasons for: >remove this from axfr-clarify and if there's a desire then: >create a document clarifying name compression in general (if there >is a compelling reason to make this change at all). ;) Thanks. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 As with IPv6, the problem with the deployment of frictionless surfaces is that they're not getting traction. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 13:21:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D06A3A68BB; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:21:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a2xblUXgsSn9; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03723A685B; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSdBd-000M92-O8 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:13:01 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSdBW-000M5X-Oq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:12:54 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61DF3A5172 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Jan 2010 15:49:08 EST." <20100106204907.GB8857@shinkuro.com> References: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> <20100106204907.GB8857@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 22.2.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:12:54 +0000 Message-ID: <61805.1262812374@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:49:08 -0500 > From: Andrew Sullivan > > It seems to me the intention is that the server providing the AXFR answer > should provide the entire zone in exactly the case it holds the data. It > should not transmit the zone such that case distinctions that are in the > server's copy of the zone are lost. Is that right? And if so, is just > saying it that way enough of a clarification? if that's the intent, then the language should explicitly require that dns compression be done casefully, that is, if one is looking for a backpointer to replace label "FooBar" then one should not accept the address of label "foobar" or "FOOBAR" or any other except literally "FooBar". this is in my opinion a reasonable practice for AXFR but i would not like to see similar requirements for normal queries. (speaking now for 0x20.) From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 13:39:54 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78F63A67A2; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:39:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.349, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y42aqydyp20L; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2503A659B; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSdVS-000Odm-9d for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:33:30 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.20] (helo=exprod7og121.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSdVL-000OdM-C0 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:33:23 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob121.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0UBor8H+W/ThIOnCkSI812wW90hf53L@postini.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:33:23 PST Received: from wave.ddns.nominum.com (wave.ddns.nominum.com [64.89.225.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B74E1B828F; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Brian Wellington In-Reply-To: <61805.1262812374@nsa.vix.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:22 -0800 Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6B79ED3A-9AA5-4BD9-B76E-BFD4A07E5D09@nominum.com> References: <596FCB8B-3A9C-45A6-960E-78D513450408@nominum.com> <20100106204907.GB8857@shinkuro.com> <61805.1262812374@nsa.vix.com> To: Paul Vixie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Jan 6, 2010, at 1:12 PM, Paul Vixie wrote: >> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:49:08 -0500 >> From: Andrew Sullivan >>=20 >> It seems to me the intention is that the server providing the AXFR = answer >> should provide the entire zone in exactly the case it holds the data. = It >> should not transmit the zone such that case distinctions that are in = the >> server's copy of the zone are lost. Is that right? And if so, is = just >> saying it that way enough of a clarification? >=20 > if that's the intent, then the language should explicitly require that = dns > compression be done casefully, that is, if one is looking for a = backpointer > to replace label "FooBar" then one should not accept the address of = label > "foobar" or "FOOBAR" or any other except literally "FooBar". this is = in my > opinion a reasonable practice for AXFR but i would not like to see = similar > requirements for normal queries. (speaking now for 0x20.) Unless I'm missing something, this is unrelated to 0x20. 0x20 requires = that the case of the name in the question section of the response = matches the case of the name in the question section of the query, and = this name will never be compressed (as it's the first name in the = packet). Brian= From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Wed Jan 6 14:22:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F433A68BB for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:22:29 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.993 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.993 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IMPOTENCE=1.886, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, MORE_SEX=1.183, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_ADULT2=1.42, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X2O7oR4rhnLV for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from 234.112.121.77.pool.smart.vn.ua (234.112.121.77.pool.smart.vn.ua [77.121.112.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D19EE3A67D9 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 14:22:26 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA ® Official Site To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Dear dnsext-archive! 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jan 6 16:00:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10223A68F7; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:00:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.624 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.624 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.475, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wqciv1Vq5Hf3; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F8B3A683F; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 16:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSffH-000Ekd-7h for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:51:47 +0000 Received: from [213.178.172.147] (helo=TR-Sys.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSff9-000Ejq-VN for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:51:40 +0000 Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3.2) id AA138721886; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 00:51:26 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id AAA23087; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 00:51:25 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <201001062351.AAA23087@TR-Sys.de> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 00:51:25 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Also starting to catch up after a few 'unwired' days ... Firstly, thanks for all comments received so far (and yet expecting more support for the document!). Andrew: Apparently so many folks needed a longer nap from IETF, and the mid-week holiday today has obviously encouraged many people to not return to business until Monday (Jan 11). Running WGLCs over this period of time obviously turned out as not being the proper incentive to keep folks from vacation. :-) Therefore, I suggest considering to extend the current WGLCs by a few days. After quickly skimming over the messages, I agree with most editorial suggestions supplied so far, but in a few cases I'll try to find an even better alternative. As the current active editor of the draft, I will sum up on Friday the changes already done on my working copy and present my current thoughts on a few remaining details to be addressed after closure of the WGLC. Regarding the case preservation discussion, at Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:49:08 -0500, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > ... > > It seems to me the intention is that the server providing the AXFR > answer should provide the entire zone in exactly the case it holds the > data. It should not transmit the zone such that case distinctions > that are in the server's copy of the zone are lost. Is that right? > And if so, is just saying it that way enough of a clarification? > > A > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. > Yes, that's the way I read the text. The objective is to perferably not change the case of names in the zone content served by the primary name server during transfer to secondary authorities -- this essentially has nothing to do with any case manipulation performed during loading of a primary zone file (or similar, in other implementations), since the latter is not visibly on-the-wire. This goal obviously follows the principle of least surprise, making sure that all authoritative servers synchronized via AXFR will serve tha same zone content; this goal is independent of the technical ways it is achieved, but it indeed has the consequences for the application of name compression *for AXRF responses* described in Section 3.4. The case preservation from normal queries is related to the QNAME, not to the name components served from the zone and not overlapping the QNAME, which are always served "as is" from the zone content. I'll craft short text to state the objective and include some of the verbiage Paul Vixie has provided in response to Andrew's post. Or does the previous consensus for that "MUST" not hold any more? Kind regards, Alfred. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 10:09:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6C13A68E6; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:09:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.247, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 493imCEFt0dP; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:08:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E163A6403; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:08:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSweY-0004BW-7v for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 18:00:10 +0000 Received: from [2001:1890:1112:1::20] (helo=mail.ietf.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSweQ-00046e-0g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 18:00:02 +0000 Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 2CD8B3A68FB; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:00:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100107180002.2CD8B3A68FB@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:00:01 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : DNS Transport over TCP Author(s) : R. Bellis Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2010-1-7 This document updates the requirements for the support of TCP as a transport protocol for DNS implementations. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-1-7095729.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Thu Jan 7 10:22:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8B23A6856 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY=1.643, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id POqUV5SiaqNz for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201-42-68-72.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-42-21-160.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.42.21.160]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87BEF3A6855 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100107182207.87BEF3A6855@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:07 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 10:22:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F080B3A68D7 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY=1.643, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UD52rj2SvpVw for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201-42-68-72.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-42-21-160.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.42.21.160]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45513A6855 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:47 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100107182247.A45513A6855@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:22:47 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 11:13:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF6E28C1A4; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:13:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4QhEsNqJZ3TL; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F104728C1A2; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSxd9-000ELc-EF for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:02:47 +0000 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NSxcy-000EIx-1w for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:02:36 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:In-Reply-To:References:To:Subject: MIME-Version:X-Mailer:Message-ID:From:Date:X-MIMETrack: Content-Type; b=YJurizeZg+do0ECclRVtNV5xes4WLVYhDfKSPrdvre7tTs1OkhFHva2o soiOsb98+Xxihr6Lcpbj8jz2ZjR1aSRwO69vKui43NMgi8j1YzwQyZrUv vXrqj7N38fr4Qzm; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1262890956; x=1294426956; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk|Subject:=20Re:=20[dnse xt]=20I-D=20ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements -02.txt|Date:=20Thu,=207=20Jan=202010=2019:02:33=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20|To:=20namedroppers@ops.i etf.org|MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20<2010010718000 2.2CD8B3A68FB@core3.amsl.com>|References:=20<201001071800 02.2CD8B3A68FB@core3.amsl.com>; bh=s7mIk2tQqOgQk6+qCZG2omE31KgAsE4phaGeFtqPrQo=; b=DvI2R5kWcGb00uSppMWOuPydHw/LE/MW5x3Abz6shOJa9kESBiJeelu4 XyOQRN3prACxJ4eMYFr8XbzpXZ1Fvpt/cbvMqL88AOTYquVOhQFeMiSX5 sj4JLwXtrb5hx9a; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,236,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="15391730" Received: from notes1.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.128]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 07 Jan 2010 19:02:33 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20100107180002.2CD8B3A68FB@core3.amsl.com> References: <20100107180002.2CD8B3A68FB@core3.amsl.com> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.5 December 05, 2008 Message-ID: From: Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 19:02:33 +0000 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes1/Nominet(Release 7.0.1FP1 | May 25, 2006) at 07/01/2010 07:02:33 PM, Serialize complete at 07/01/2010 07:02:33 PM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006899DB802576A4_=" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006899DB802576A4_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : DNS Transport over TCP > Author(s) : R. Bellis > Filename : draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2010-1-7 > > This document updates the requirements for the support of TCP as a > transport protocol for DNS implementations. Changes in this version address feedback from the meeting in Hiroshima, concentrating on implementation rather than operations, and also comments received on-list. Ray --=_alternative 006899DB802576A4_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF.
>
>    Title      : DNS Transport over TCP
>    Author(s)   : R. Bellis
>    Filename   : draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-02.txt
>    Pages      : 8
>    Date      : 2010-1-7
>    
> This document updates the requirements for the support of TCP as a
>    transport protocol for DNS implementations.
Changes in this version address feedback from the meeting in Hiroshima, concentrating on implementation rather than operations, and also comments received on-list.

Ray
--=_alternative 006899DB802576A4_=-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Thu Jan 7 11:47:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E17D28C12E for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -60.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-60.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGnfJi35JA1u for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 73-4-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net (115-210-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.134.210.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB37828C174 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100107194701.DB37828C174@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:01 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 11:47:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A4E28C0EB for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -60.381 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-60.381 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f7OWVes1QfXu for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 73-4-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net (115-210-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.134.210.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEFA28C12E for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:08 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100107194708.AFEFA28C12E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:47:08 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 13:55:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D6C3A67A2; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:55:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ahnsaxbzPobG; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0FB3A68E5; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NT0Fk-000Ef5-FA for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:50:48 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.163] (helo=exprod7og105.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NT0Fe-000EYy-Ew for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:50:42 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob105.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0ZXMa67XpN0wtqvQhlFBceX9eifPEOf@postini.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:50:42 PST Received: from webmail.nominum.com (exchange-10.nominum.com [64.89.228.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "exchange-10.win.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE7C1B82C4 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from exchange-10.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.57]) by exchange-10.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.57]) with mapi; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:50:41 -0800 From: Bob Halley To: IETF DNSEXT WG Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:50:40 -0800 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Thread-Topic: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Thread-Index: AcqP43SOj75pXSFLTsOmjEtSWlu8Wg== Message-ID: References: <201001062351.AAA23087@TR-Sys.de> In-Reply-To: <201001062351.AAA23087@TR-Sys.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: While I generally support draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12, I'd like to se= e the comments made by Andreas Gustafsson and Brian Wellington addressed in= the draft before it progresses. /Bob From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 13:56:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20693A680E; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:56:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KM15JXS7FUlf; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B003A67A2; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NT0AM-000DNy-RQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:45:14 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.8] (helo=exprod7og118.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NT0AG-000DN7-Tx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:45:09 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob118.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0ZV4yw21y7THKM1Xb6YUayJwfvlUqrT@postini.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:45:08 PST Received: from webmail.nominum.com (exchange-10.nominum.com [64.89.228.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "exchange-10.win.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certification Authority" (verified OK)) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351B51B82C2 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from exchange-10.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.57]) by exchange-10.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.228.57]) with mapi; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:45:07 -0800 From: Bob Halley To: IETF DNSEXT WG Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:45:05 -0800 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: WGLC in process Thread-Topic: [dnsext] Reminder: WGLC in process Thread-Index: AcqP4q04kuf+3noJTC6maMKP+LCaBw== Message-ID: References: <20100104222322.GF8857@crankycanuck.ca> In-Reply-To: <20100104222322.GF8857@crankycanuck.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I have reviewed draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation-00.txt and draft-i= etf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes-01.txt and have no objections to them prog= ressing. /Bob From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 15:17:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5A63A67D9; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:17:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.366 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.233, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fTy09z8zp-+h; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:17:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AE03A6405; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:17:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NT1UO-0000Ds-1x for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:10:00 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.18] (helo=exprod7og120.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NT1UI-0000DV-4t for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:09:54 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0ZpvgsjDIcAqirwfMXn1/Z8QckFOhb+@postini.com; Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:09:54 PST Received: from wave.ddns.nominum.com (wave.ddns.nominum.com [64.89.225.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1AA1B8231; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:09:49 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Wellington Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-18.txt Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:09:49 -0800 Message-Id: Cc: scottr@nist.gov, wouter@nlnetlabs.nl To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Section 5.2 of this draft includes: A server MUST reject a dynamic update message that attempts to add a DNAME RR at a name that already has a CNAME RR or another DNAME RR associated with that name. Is there a rationale for this text? It's a pretty drastic departure = from existing DDNS behavior. RFC 2136, section 3.4.2.2 says: In the case of a CNAME Update RR and a non-CNAME Zone RRset or vice versa, ignore the CNAME Update RR, otherwise replace the CNAME Zone = RR with the CNAME Update RR. I don't see any reason why a CNAME would be replaced by an update with a = non-DNAME record, but an update with a DNAME record would cause the = update to fail. RFC 2136, section 3.4.2.2 also says: In case of duplicate RDATAs (which for SOA RRs is always the case, and for WKS RRs is the case if the ADDRESS and PROTOCOL fields both match), the Zone RR is replaced by Update RR. Section 2.4 (of this draft) defines DNAME as a singleton type, and while = RFC 2136 doesn't use the word singleton, this text appears to be = describing the same scenario. As above, it's not clear why DNAME would = be handled differently from other singleton types. Additionally, if there is a reason for this change, the document should = be more clear than "MUST reject"; that is, what the correct response = code should be. Brian= From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Thu Jan 7 23:01:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29603A67D8 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.313 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.313 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN0b=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rm4p2P3LurUc for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 218-167-189-197.dynamic.hinet.net (218-167-189-197.dynamic.hinet.net [218.167.189.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3341A3A63EB for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100108070125.3341A3A63EB@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:25 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Thu Jan 7 23:01:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608E03A68AF for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.313 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.313 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN0b=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YX7QUt7aZeik for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 218-167-189-197.dynamic.hinet.net (218-167-189-197.dynamic.hinet.net [218.167.189.197]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772463A63EB for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:38 -0800 (PST) From: VIAGRA R Online Shop To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Valued customer dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org 80% OFF on Pfizer. Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100108070138.772463A63EB@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:01:38 -0800 (PST) December 2009
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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jan 8 06:01:42 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1898D3A67B5 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -18.368 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-18.368 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RATWARE_MS_HASH=1.398, RATWARE_OUTLOOK_NONAME=2.171, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikVb7b8FwwBL for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from netacc-gpn-4-118-132.pool.pannon.hu (netacc-gpn-4-118-132.pool.pannon.hu [84.224.118.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 914443A6816 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:01:39 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [89.6.61.3] X-Originating-Email: [dnsext-archive@ietf.org] X-Sender: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Message-Id: <738701ca9072$f9e0a100$8476e054@your-6d7e218bed> From: admin@viagra.com To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: RE: Pfizer 79% OFF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 06:01:39 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 07:38:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B89C3A683B; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:38:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.869 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.869 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.730, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPwq2PIUyVW4; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675133A67B0; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTGnj-000Ags-7g for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:30:59 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTGnZ-000AcY-3v for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:30:49 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C64B82FE8CA1 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 15:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:30:44 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Extending WGLCs by one week: closing 2010-01-15 Message-ID: <20100108153044.GF26259@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, We have two WGLCs open on three documents. The original announcements are at the following URLs: http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2009/msg03149.html http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2009/msg03148.html Someone has pointed out to me that the LCs coincided with a longer holiday period than I knew, and that some people may therefore have missed the opportunity to offer their comments. As a consequence, I hereby extend the WGLCs by one week, closing next Friday 2010-01-15. If you intend to review one or all of these documents, and the additional week is not sufficient time for your review, I implore you to contact me with a date by which you think you could perform your review. The LCs were originally scheduled to close today. None of the documents has so far received adequate review. Each document that fails to meet the threshold of five reviews supporting advancement before its LC closes will be considered to be dead, and we will drop them from our list of work items. (As usual, five reviews is a necessary but not sufficient condition. If we had five supportive reviews and 20 reviews arguing against, we would have to take that into consideration. Of course, it seems the chances of getting 25 reviews on any WG document are smaller than my chances of becoming a Hollywood celebrity due to my sparkling wit and irresistable good looks.) It would be most unfortunate if these items did not receive adequate review. The AXFR clarifications document has been around for a long time, and has had a substantial amount of work on it by its editors. I think we owe it to those people, our colleagues, to complete our work on the document. That means we need to complete the review. The dnssec-registry-fixes document is a housekeeping document, urgently needed. It's really short -- only 6 pages, including all the mandatory boilerplate -- and an ideal candidate for someone who is not comfortable with a big protocol document like axfr-clarify. If you are one of the many people who comes to DNSEXT meetings but who seems not to post reviews, I encourage you to dive into this one: it shouldn't be hard to review, and if you find it too hard to understand _that's very valuable feedback_. The dnssec-alg-allocation document is even shorter, at only 5 pages including all the boilerplate. It changes the rules about algorithm assignment, and proposes a mechanism for avoiding exhaustion of the number space. Several people said during the GOST discussions that they would as soon have waited for this procedure to be in place; that suggested to me, but did not confirm, that they had read the proposal and supported it. If that's true, all those people need do is speak up. Again, this is an excellent document for people who are often quiet on this mailing list to tackle, because you don't really need to understand the detailed history of the DNS protocol and various implementations in order to understand this document and its implications. If you think any of the drafts should _not_ be advanced, that is also useful feedback during WGLC. It is important that we get some response, because in the absence of such response we have to conclude that the WG isn't interested in actually working on its work items. If we are forced to that conclusion, we will have to ask ourselves whether it is reasonable to continue our existence. Best regards, Andrew (sheperd for the documents in question) -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 07:39:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C093A6853; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:39:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.026 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.026 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.573, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aKzlPG-1pTyE; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61ADE3A67EA; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 07:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTGt5-000Bf8-E9 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:36:31 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTGsy-000Bdw-8x for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:36:24 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B8DF2FE8CA1 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 15:36:22 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:36:21 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] WG operation survey Message-ID: <20100108153620.GG26259@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, Olafur and I put together a little survey of WG participants to understand how we are doing. If you have an opinion on this matter, it is welcome. We are aware of the shortcomings of a self-selected sample such as this, but we'll take the responses seriously. The survey is at . It's five questions long. There are questions on the WG operation, questions about each of the co-Chairs performance, and a question about the WG's future. We would appreciate your responses. We'll leave the survey open until 2010-02-12. Thanks, Andrew and Olafur. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 09:03:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840CE3A677C; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:03:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HwO+dyFcPhOB; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:03:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19253A6810; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:03:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTI71-000PBr-Ct for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:54:59 +0000 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTI6u-000PBL-Oe for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:54:52 +0000 Received: from WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov (wsxghub2.nist.gov [129.6.18.19]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o08GshEw014278 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:54:43 -0500 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov ([2002:8106:1213::8106:1213]) with mapi; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:54:33 -0500 From: "Rose, Scott W." To: "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:54:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: WGLC in process Thread-Topic: [dnsext] Reminder: WGLC in process Thread-Index: AcqNjbNwqNO2nuyWRGW8ADmkKF2J6AC9ZJjQ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20100104222322.GF8857@crankycanuck.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C76CCD829F6Escottrosenistgov_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scott.rose@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --_000_C76CCD829F6Escottrosenistgov_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have read over draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation-00.txt and do not= have any objections to it progressing. I am in favor of it. Scott On 1/4/10 5:23 PM, "Andrew Sullivan" wrote: Dear colleagues, This is a reminder that we have two WGLC in process. Both close on Friday. We have had a too-small number of reviews for the axfr-clarify document. Please review it. The silence on the procedural documents to fix the registry and change the rules for algorithm number assignment has been deafening. More than one person suggested, during LC on the GOST assignment, that we could wait for the procedural changes to come into place. It would be nice if at least those who thought those procedural changes would be helpful would now review those documents. Thanks and best for 2010, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scott Rose NIST scottr@nist.gov ph: +1 301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 http://www.dnsops.gov/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --_000_C76CCD829F6Escottrosenistgov_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [dnsext] Reminder: WGLC in process I have read over draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation-00.txt  = ;and do not have any objections to it progressing.  I am in favor of i= t.

Scott


On 1/4/10 5:23 PM, "Andrew Sullivan" <ajs@shinkuro.com> wrote:

Dear colleagues,

This is a reminder that we have two WGLC in process.  Both close on Fr= iday.

We have had a too-small number of reviews for the axfr-clarify
document.  Please review it.

The silence on the procedural documents to fix the registry and change
the rules for algorithm number assignment has been deafening.  More than one person suggested, during LC on the GOST assignment, that we
could wait for the procedural changes to come into place.  It would be=
nice if at least those who thought those procedural changes would be
helpful would now review those documents.

Thanks and best for 2010,

Andrew

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Scott Rose
NIST
scottr@nist.gov
ph: +1 301-975-8439
Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671

http://www.dnsops.gov/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 --_000_C76CCD829F6Escottrosenistgov_-- From decrementedt7@sigma-rh.com Fri Jan 8 09:12:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8E83A683C; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:12:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -37.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-37.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y3mu5+I1gwF8; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from 16.70.191.90.sta.estpak.ee (16.70.191.90.sta.estpak.ee [90.191.70.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766803A68BD; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:12:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from 90.191.70.16 by ftp.sigma-rh.com; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 19:11:57 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01ca9085$af0dfca0$6400a8c0@decrementedt7> From: "support@ietf.org" To: Subject: A new settings file for the dnsind-archive@ietf.org mailbox Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 19:11:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA9085.AF0DFCA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA9085.AF0DFCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear user of the ietf.org mailing service!We are informing you that because= of the security upgrade of the mailing service your mailbox (dnsind-archiv= e@ietf.org) settings were changed. In order to apply the new set of setting= s click on the following link:http://ietf.org/owa/service_directory/setting= s.php?email=3Ddnsind-archive@ietf.org&from=3Dietf.org&fromname=3Ddnsind-arc= hiveBest regards, ietf.org Technical Support.Letter ID#DR6TCDMP9DN650Q ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA9085.AF0DFCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear user of the ietf.org mail= ing service!

We are informing you that because of the security upgra= de of the mailing service your mailbox (dnsind-archive@ietf.org) settings were changed. In order to app= ly the new set of settings click on the following link:

http://ietf.org/owa/service_directory/settings.php?email=3Ddnsind-archive= @ietf.org&from=3Dietf.org&fromname=3Ddnsind-archive

Best = regards, ietf.org Technical Support.

Letter ID#DR6TCDMP9DN650Q

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA9085.AF0DFCA0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 10:16:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C073A688C; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:16:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kJBpjQRM0TLT; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C7C3A6840; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTJI6-000Bfk-6j for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:10:30 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTJHz-000Bev-6T for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:10:23 +0000 Received: from [0.0.0.0] (gatt.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o08ICQDH024588; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:12:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19259.31457.580958.759743@guava.gson.org> References: <20091218184216.GF49362@shinkuro.com> <20091219172214.GF52726@shinkuro.com> <19259.31457.580958.759743@guava.gson.org> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:10:14 -0500 To: Andreas Gustafsson From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I had completely missed these comments until Bob mentioned you had made them. (Lost in the end-of-the-year-while-I-was-on-vacation-pile-and-it-wasn't-in-my-in-box-too.) At 18:08 +0200 12/30/09, Andreas Gustafsson wrote: >I don't think it makes sense to talk about a "0 message response" as a >type of response distinct from that of immediately closing the TCP >connection (as discussed in section 2.3). Other than that, the comments are pretty much no-brainers to adopt. This one I had to think about a bit though, even if ultimately I agree. I suppose that if the server isn't going to respond yet keeps the connection open for other traffic, then it's the client that just hangs around. Perhaps there's never a case where a server would continue to accept other traffic from a client yet let an AXFR query go un-answered (even if refused). Ultimately, a client ought to have a time-out, where it gives up on hearing the transfer, I suppose. And I think this is a parameter in at least one implementation. So I guess it seems reasonable to drop this - but from the perspective of an implementer, shouldn't they know that this could happen? Or is that covered elsewhere? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 As with IPv6, the problem with the deployment of frictionless surfaces is that they're not getting traction. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 10:34:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF32C3A688F; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:34:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id teXszDrZK+-f; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB133A688C; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:34:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTJaH-000Ens-C7 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:29:17 +0000 Received: from [193.110.157.143] (helo=newtla.xelerance.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTJa4-000En3-1k for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:29:04 +0000 Received: from tla.xelerance.com (tla.xelerance.com [193.110.157.130]) by newtla.xelerance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3307571A1; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:29:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:29:02 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Extending WGLCs by one week: closing 2010-01-15 In-Reply-To: <20100108153044.GF26259@shinkuro.com> Message-ID: References: <20100108153044.GF26259@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (LFD 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > We have two WGLCs open on three documents. The original announcements > are at the following URLs: > > http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2009/msg03149.html I have read draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation-00.txt and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes-01.txt and support both documents going forward. > http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2009/msg03148.html I am not familiar enough with the protocol details of AXFR to give this document a proper review. Paul From infalliblyp73@sankou-grp.co.jp Fri Jan 8 11:34:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0953A6805; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:34:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SPOOF_NET2COM=1.586, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_PH_SURBL=1.787, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_9B90B=1.601] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2u9LPffPlE-6; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 095160236006.stk.vectranet.pl (095160236006.stk.vectranet.pl [95.160.236.6]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425543A67F8; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:33:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 95.160.236.6 by mail-fwd.wh2.ocn.ne.jp; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:33:50 +0100 From: "automailer@ietf.org" To: Subject: A new settings file for the enum-bounces@ietf.org Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:33:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA9099.815DBAC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QED3NGWVE401FFP52643EBQ29J== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: <000d01ca9099$815dbac0$6400a8c0@infalliblyp73> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA9099.815DBAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user of the ietf.org mailing service!We are informing you that because of the security upgrade of the mailing service your mailbox (enum-bounces@ietf.org) settings were changed. In order to apply the new set of settings click on the following link:http://ietf.org/owa/service_directory/settings.php?email=enum-bounces@ietf.org&from=ietf.org&fromname=enum-bouncesBest regards, ietf.org Technical Support.Letter ID#EWLP9HWA95 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA9099.815DBAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA9099.815DBAC0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 12:34:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C5C3A6876; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:34:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9G9n8C+BTYsr; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1593A684F; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 12:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTLQ0-00063Y-Ee for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:26:48 +0000 Received: from [198.32.6.68] (helo=vacation.karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTLPr-0005y3-4j for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:26:42 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o08KPAEn012511; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:25:10 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id o08KP7BU012510; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:25:07 GMT Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:25:07 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Cc: Andreas Gustafsson , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 Message-ID: <20100108202507.GB12425@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20091218184216.GF49362@shinkuro.com> <20091219172214.GF52726@shinkuro.com> <19259.31457.580958.759743@guava.gson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 01:10:14PM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > I had completely missed these comments until Bob mentioned you had > made them. (Lost in the > end-of-the-year-while-I-was-on-vacation-pile-and-it-wasn't-in-my-in-box-too.) > > At 18:08 +0200 12/30/09, Andreas Gustafsson wrote: > > >I don't think it makes sense to talk about a "0 message response" as a > >type of response distinct from that of immediately closing the TCP > >connection (as discussed in section 2.3). > > Other than that, the comments are pretty much no-brainers to adopt. > This one I had to think about a bit though, even if ultimately I > agree. > > I suppose that if the server isn't going to respond yet keeps the > connection open for other traffic, then it's the client that just > hangs around. Perhaps there's never a case where a server would > continue to accept other traffic from a client yet let an AXFR query > go un-answered (even if refused). actually, the server consumes resource to keep the connection open, even if at a higher layer it is not going to respond; e.g. the server just "hangs around" too. and it certainly can open new connection requests from that (or other) client(s) while waiting. > Ultimately, a client ought to have a time-out, where it gives up on > hearing the transfer, I suppose. And I think this is a parameter in > at least one implementation. So I guess it seems reasonable to drop > this - but from the perspective of an implementer, shouldn't they > know that this could happen? Or is that covered elsewhere? TCP does have a timeout option and the original DNS spec sez to close after a 120second window. > Edward Lewis > NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 > for whom? --bill From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 14:02:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3903A68FB; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:02:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bqsJOyfnxn-l; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB74D3A68F1; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTMjc-000IZD-70 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:51:08 +0000 Received: from [213.178.172.147] (helo=TR-Sys.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTMjU-000IWo-5b for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 21:51:00 +0000 Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3.2) id AA151847445; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:50:46 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id WAA27680; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:50:44 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <201001082150.WAA27680@TR-Sys.de> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify-12 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:50:44 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At Thu, 7 Jan 2010 00:51:25 +0100 (MEZ), wrote: > As the current active editor of the draft, I will sum up > on Friday the changes already done on my working copy and > present my current thoughts on a few remaining details > to be addressed after closure of the WGLC. Given the extended time frame for the WGLC per Andrew's message ... http://ops.IETF.ORG/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2009/msg03249.html ... the additional comments now coming in (thanks!), ... and other (unrelated) urgent obligations, I defer this sum-up report to Monday. This will allow me to catch up with more comments and resulting changes to the draft (already done and still to be done). Alfred. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 14:11:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91263A68C3; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:11:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.425 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.425 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.175, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhOT1sI2MoCC; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6613A67A8; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTMue-000KE2-7L for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:02:32 +0000 Received: from [64.18.2.20] (helo=exprod7og121.obsmtp.com) by psg.com with smtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTMuW-000KCy-RL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:02:25 +0000 Received: from source ([64.89.228.229]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob121.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS0eraFWIjsRbeaH+1oZj3hg8gpJkJF+F@postini.com; Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:02:24 PST Received: from wave.ddns.nominum.com (wave.ddns.nominum.com [64.89.225.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80051B82D8; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:02:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [dnsext] Extending WGLCs by one week: closing 2010-01-15 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Brian Wellington In-Reply-To: <20100108153044.GF26259@shinkuro.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 14:02:16 -0800 Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20100108153044.GF26259@shinkuro.com> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Jan 8, 2010, at 7:30 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > The dnssec-registry-fixes document is a housekeeping document, > urgently needed.=20 I approve of this draft, with one minor comment. The text contains: This column will contain the current implementation status of the = given algorithm. I don't think "implementation" is the correct word to use, since it's = not talking about implementations, it's talking about recommendations = and/or requirements. > The dnssec-alg-allocation document is even shorter, at only 5 pages > including all the boilerplate. It changes the rules about algorithm > assignment, and proposes a mechanism for avoiding exhaustion of the > number space. =20 I approve of this draft. Brian= From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jan 8 20:05:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B489E3A6942 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:05:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -43.259 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-43.259 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ha0qQ2P3bc8s for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from 219.43.broadband10.iol.cz (219.43.broadband10.iol.cz [90.177.43.219]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628FA3A692A for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:05:41 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100109040541.628FA3A692A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:05:41 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Fri Jan 8 20:06:08 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4C53A6941 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:06:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -43.259 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-43.259 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HlKXnfBTU1oV for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 219.43.broadband10.iol.cz (219.43.broadband10.iol.cz [90.177.43.219]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FDF3A692A for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100109040600.94FDF3A692A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 20:06:00 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jan 8 22:37:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35893A68EC for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:37:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.315 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.315 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RATWARE_MS_HASH=1.398, RATWARE_OUTLOOK_NONAME=2.171, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m+MYo0Qr3AGb for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from 125.26.86.193.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net (125.26.86.193.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net [125.26.86.193]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A1B63A6869 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:37:04 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [74.00.26.23] X-Originating-Email: [dnsext-archive@ietf.org] X-Sender: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Message-Id: <140b01ca9130$c4fc5790$c1561a7d@peteroff-9e288b> From: admin@viagra.com To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: RE: MedHelp 16251 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 22:37:04 -0800 (PST)
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From mesmerizes5@smallpiece.freeserve.co.uk Sat Jan 9 01:39:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66613A6970 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 01:39:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.358 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.358 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_PH_SURBL=1.787, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FEbAQvKjoNCV for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 01:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from 151.57.197-77.rev.gaoland.net (151.57.197-77.rev.gaoland.net [77.197.57.151]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6CCB3A67E4 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 01:39:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 77.197.57.151 by mail-in.freeserve.com; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:39:25 +0100 From: "notifications@lists.ietf.org" To: Subject: A new settings file for the dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org mailbox has just been released Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:39:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA910F.A1702A20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Aca6QDY8NIHF3NW6J7IY25EKYRCFO3== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-ID: <000d01ca910f$a1702a20$6400a8c0@mesmerizes5> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100108-1, 08/01/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA910F.A1702A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user of the lists.ietf.org mailing service!We are informing you that because of the security upgrade of the mailing service your mailbox (dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org) settings were changed. In order to apply the new set of settings click on the following link:http://lists.ietf.org/owa/service_directory/settings.php?email=dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org&from=lists.ietf.org&fromname=dnsext-archiveBest regards, lists.ietf.org Technical Support.Letter-ID#YBJSMFC7YKT180I1XR5 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA910F.A1702A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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Letter ID#OQRWMMY8060OMX6R77RW

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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA916C.A70A0E30-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jan 9 13:46:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8654E3A6835; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:46:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 59qYG8Hccbkv; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8683A6452; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTizY-0000kQ-Ga for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:37:04 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTizV-0000kD-Lc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:37:02 +0000 Received: from stora.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o09Lde5h034296 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 16:39:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@stora.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o09Lde6U034295 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 16:39:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [65.122.17.41] (helo=fledge.watson.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTfw0-0001hi-68 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:21:12 +0000 Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o09ILAFP000232; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:21:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id o09IL9hk000225; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:21:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:21:09 -0500 (EST) From: Samuel Weiler To: Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement In-Reply-To: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> Message-ID: References: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 09 Jan 2010 13:21:10 -0500 (EST) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Tackling these two docs separately. First registry-fixes: I think registry-fixes needs changes. Adding the "requirement status" column to the registry is a fine idea (note the change in terminology suggested by Brian Wellington, which I support). I'm concerned about the metric for making changes to the requirement status: taken together, these two docs would allow an independent submission (=RFC Editor stream document) to create a "MANDATORY" algorithm. I think that's bad. It also looks like there's also a possibility that an informational RFC or independent submission could change the requirement status of new algorithms, even if those were defined on the standards track. I propose the following: "The requirement status for all new algorithms will be OPTIONAL unless a Standards Track document changes that (possibly including the Standards Track document defining the algorithm). Only a Standards Track document may make an algorithm ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY or remove the MANDATORY or ENCOURAGED designation." This suggests giving IANA a more complicated assignment metric for this registry: "assignments" are RFC Required, but changes in the requirement status field are still "Standards Action". I'm also wondering where the proposed requirement status entries came from. For instance, RSA/SHA-256 is shown as OPTIONAL, but RFC5702 uses SHOULD, which suggests the term (per ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance) should be ENCOURAGED. (dnssec-bis-updates-09 also says this, in Section 2.) Similarly, I'm not recalling that we've issued any document declaring RSA/MD5 OBSOLETE. Making that change here is fine, but it should be called out as a change. And if these two are off, then are there errors elsewhere? -- Sam From domineerso18@sheltermusic.co.uk Sat Jan 9 22:10:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CA83A68FC for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:10:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_57=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SPOOF_NET2COM=1.586, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_PH_SURBL=1.787, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q0gRcNaSNzH5 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:10:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tdev228-49.codetel.net.do (tdev228-49.codetel.net.do [200.88.228.49]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32363A68FF for ; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from 200.88.228.49 by mx-01.dnsmaster.net; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:10:16 -0500 From: "no-reply@lists.ietf.org" To: Subject: For the owner of the dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org mailbox Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:10:16 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01ca91bb$945a53e0$6400a8c0@domineerso18> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA91BB.945A53E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA91BB.945A53E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user of the lists.ietf.org mailing service!We are informing you that because of the security upgrade of the mailing service your mailbox (dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org) settings were changed. In order to apply the new set of settings click on the following link:http://lists.ietf.org/owa/service_directory/settings.php?email=dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org&from=lists.ietf.org&fromname=dnsext-archiveBest regards, lists.ietf.org Technical Support.Message_ID#6LXJWYJL31EOYLE2BF6VLEGT78J4NP ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CA91BB.945A53E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear user of the lists.ietf.or= g mailing service!

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From dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Sun Jan 10 10:46:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6445C3A6858 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:46:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -42.642 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-42.642 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URI_HEX=0.368, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQ-e05JROJ5r for ; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from user17-247.satfilm.net.pl (user17-247.satfilm.net.pl [77.91.17.247]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00823A6962 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:46:06 -0800 (PST) From: Genuine Pfizer c Retailer To: dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Special 80% discount for customer dnsext-archive on all Pfizer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100110184606.A00823A6962@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 10:46:06 -0800 (PST) Newsletter If you are unable to see the message below, click here to view.

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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 10 17:13:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B5E3A6979; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:13:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.497, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c1pvQqFeGfBm; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D273A67A2; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NU8fQ-000D7c-0X for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:02:00 +0000 Received: from [203.8.7.220] (helo=mail.syd.netstarnetworks.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NU8fL-000D74-3F for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:01:55 +0000 Received: from sdcmail.netstarnetworks.com ([10.18.193.12]) by mail.syd.netstarnetworks.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o0B11wR7026733 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:01:59 +1100 Received: from melmail.netstarnetworks.com ([10.20.193.13]) by sdcmail.netstarnetworks.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:01:08 +1100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [dnsext] Use of DNS SRV records for host selection Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:01:07 +1100 Message-ID: <6983BF97BFC24D4EA551F14071232918014042C2@melmail.netstarnetworks.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Use of DNS SRV records for host selection Thread-Index: AcqSWY5u7ULfYuDVRX6mmmTRMqpMFQ== From: "Greg Daley" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2010 01:01:08.0126 (UTC) FILETIME=[8EEF1BE0:01CA9259] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: A new draft has been submitted which attempts to provide the=20 priority and load balancing control of SRV (and MX) records to host lookups, without explicit service specification. This is an early phase experimental mechanism based on SRV RR, with modified client semantics. Details are listed below: Authors: Greg Daley=20 Raymond Ng Title: =20 Use of DNS SRV records for host selection URL: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daley-dnsext-host-srv-00 Abstract: Where multiple application servers are able to receive inbound connections from clients, it is desirable provide some policy control over client behaviour. This specification allows application service providers to provide addresses of multiple servers in response to DNS queries, while specifying failover and load balancing behaviours. Multiple servers are specified using existing protocol mechanisms for DNS Service records (SRV). An experimental record definition is described, which can be implemented on existing systems. Greg Daley NetStar Australia Pty Ltd E-mail: gdaley _at_ netstarnetworks.com Mobile: +61 401 772 770 Direct: +61 3 8532 4042 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 10 19:09:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9E53A699D; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:09:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGVG2fRrR7RM; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9F23A6995; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUAYY-0000Lw-8d for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:03:02 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:2e0:81ff:fe52:9971] (helo=mail2.ntp.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUAYU-0000Lc-Vn for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:02:59 +0000 Received: from firewall.antoniuk.lan (mail.antoniuk.md [65.86.158.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ntp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC25E39917; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:02:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mayer@gis.net) Received: from cust-63-209-235-111.bos-dynamic.gis.net ([63.209.235.111] helo=[10.10.10.101]) by firewall.antoniuk.lan with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NUAYJ-0001Mc-Oh; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:02:47 -0500 Message-ID: <4B4A94CC.1070002@gis.net> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:02:36 -0500 From: Danny Mayer Reply-To: mayer@gis.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-kostecke.net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-kostecke.net-MailScanner-From: mayer@gis.net Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Andrew Sullivan wrote: > If we were to > do this, we would aim for mid-February. It would probably happen at > about 10:00 EST, because that seems to provide _fairly_ global > availability even though it inconveniences just about everyone (we are > painfully aware that Olafur and I get off easy under this suggestion, > but if we move it earlier it's too early for the US West Coast and if > we move it any later it's way too late for anyone in the broad > Asia-Pacific region, whose residents have a significant stake in one > aspect of this issue). Please use GMT to for proposing time. It's hard for people to relate to your local time. 10:00 EST translates to 15:00 GMT. My counter to this especially if it is important for Asia-Pacific region is to move it to 22:00 GMT which would be much better for them. Danny -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 10 19:35:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2213E28C0DC; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:35:53 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: <98VCQr385Y0J> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.433, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98VCQr385Y0J; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 679A23A699F; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUB1c-0003aH-6R for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:33:04 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUB1Y-0003Zs-Bl for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:33:00 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:32:58 +0800 Message-ID: <463180778.10199@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:32:58 +0800 Message-ID: <524247683F71448782A7C399FE608701@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "YAO Jiankang" To: , "Andrew Sullivan" Cc: References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> <463179843.23222@cnnic.cn> Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:32:56 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkRhbm55IE1heWVyIiA8bWF5 ZXJAZ2lzLm5ldD4NClRvOiAiQW5kcmV3IFN1bGxpdmFuIiA8YWpzQHNoaW5rdXJvLmNvbT4NCkNj OiA8bmFtZWRyb3BwZXJzQG9wcy5pZXRmLm9yZz4NClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgSmFudWFyeSAxMSwg MjAxMCAxMTowMiBBTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtkbnNleHRdIFdHIG1lZXRpbmcgb3IgaW50ZXJp bSBtZWV0aW5nIGFib3V0ICJuYW1lIGVxdWl2YWxlbmNlIg0KDQoNCj4gQW5kcmV3IFN1bGxpdmFu IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gSWYgd2Ugd2VyZSB0bw0KPj4gZG8gdGhpcywgd2Ugd291bGQgYWltIGZvciBt aWQtRmVicnVhcnkuICBJdCB3b3VsZCBwcm9iYWJseSBoYXBwZW4gYXQNCj4+IGFib3V0IDEwOjAw IEVTVCwgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGF0IHNlZW1zIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgX2ZhaXJseV8gZ2xvYmFsDQo+PiBh dmFpbGFiaWxpdHkgZXZlbiB0aG91Z2ggaXQgaW5jb252ZW5pZW5jZXMganVzdCBhYm91dCBldmVy eW9uZSAod2UgYXJlDQo+PiBwYWluZnVsbHkgYXdhcmUgdGhhdCBPbGFmdXIgYW5kIEkgZ2V0IG9m ZiBlYXN5IHVuZGVyIHRoaXMgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiwNCj4+IGJ1dCBpZiB3ZSBtb3ZlIGl0IGVhcmxp ZXIgaXQncyB0b28gZWFybHkgZm9yIHRoZSBVUyBXZXN0IENvYXN0IGFuZCBpZg0KPj4gd2UgbW92 ZSBpdCBhbnkgbGF0ZXIgaXQncyB3YXkgdG9vIGxhdGUgZm9yIGFueW9uZSBpbiB0aGUgYnJvYWQN Cj4+IEFzaWEtUGFjaWZpYyByZWdpb24sIHdob3NlIHJlc2lkZW50cyBoYXZlIGEgc2lnbmlmaWNh bnQgc3Rha2UgaW4gb25lDQo+PiBhc3BlY3Qgb2YgdGhpcyBpc3N1ZSkuDQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2Ug dXNlIEdNVCB0byBmb3IgcHJvcG9zaW5nIHRpbWUuIEl0J3MgaGFyZCBmb3IgcGVvcGxlIHRvIHJl bGF0ZSB0bw0KPiB5b3VyIGxvY2FsIHRpbWUuIDEwOjAwIEVTVCB0cmFuc2xhdGVzIHRvIDE1OjAw IEdNVC4NCg0KR01UIGlzIGJldHRlci4gDQoNCjE1OjAwIEdNVCAoYmVpamluZyB0aW1lIGlzIDIz OjAwIHBtKSANCg0KPiANCj4gTXkgY291bnRlciB0byB0aGlzIGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgaWYgaXQgaXMg aW1wb3J0YW50IGZvciBBc2lhLVBhY2lmaWMgcmVnaW9uDQo+IGlzIHRvIG1vdmUgaXQgdG8gMjI6 MDAgR01UIHdoaWNoIHdvdWxkIGJlIG11Y2ggYmV0dGVyIGZvciB0aGVtLg0KDQoyMjowMCBHTVQg KGJlaWppbmcgdGltZSBpcyA2OjAwIGFtKQ0KDQoNCmlmIHRoZSBtZWV0aW5nIHJ1bnMgZm9yIDIg aG91cnMsIDIyOjAwIEdNVCBpcyBiZXR0ZXIuDQoNClRoYW5rcy4NCg0KWWFvIEppYW5rYW5nDQo+ IA0KPiBEYW5ueQ0KPiANCj4gLS0gDQo+IFRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBoYXMgYmVlbiBzY2FubmVkIGZv ciB2aXJ1c2VzIGFuZA0KPiBkYW5nZXJvdXMgY29udGVudCBieSBNYWlsU2Nhbm5lciwgYW5kIGlz DQo+IGJlbGlldmVkIHRvIGJlIGNsZWFuLg0KPiANCj4= From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jan 10 19:39:38 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8B628C0F2; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:39:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Je+mqrHLuRK; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2547A28C0F0; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUAzU-0003MX-GO for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:30:52 +0000 Received: from [65.99.1.130] (helo=abenaki.wabanaki.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUAzR-0003M5-5O for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:30:49 +0000 Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-241-43-7.twcny.res.rr.com [67.241.43.7]) by abenaki.wabanaki.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0B3QHsA017308; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:26:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4B4A9B60.5020101@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:30:40 -0500 From: Eric Brunner-Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mayer@gis.net CC: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] WG meeting or interim meeting about "name equivalence" References: <20100104221744.GE8857@shinkuro.com> <4B4A94CC.1070002@gis.net> In-Reply-To: <4B4A94CC.1070002@gis.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: As I mentioned earlier Danny, there are one or more use cases for "idn equivalence(s)", however, non-latin IDNs extend to UTC+2 (Athens), and this does not exhaust the set of use cases. Agree on the GMT vs local-to-foo point. Eric From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 02:29:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8EC3A67EE; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:29:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e-nRxx3GcHuz; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34EA43A672F; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUHNR-0000Ax-H1 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:20:01 +0000 Received: from [131.174.66.174] (helo=smtpout1.ru.nl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUHNO-00009n-I7 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:19:59 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS & ClamAV Received: from jelte (vhe-520087.sshn.net [195.169.221.157]) by smtp.ru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7932EEEF2; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:19:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.8.11] (dragon [192.168.8.11]) by jelte (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1BF1E3143; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:19:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:19:58 +0100 From: Jelte Jansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samuel Weiler CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement References: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/09/2010 07:21 PM, Samuel Weiler wrote: > > It also looks like there's also a possibility that an informational RFC > or independent submission could change the requirement status of new > algorithms, even if those were defined on the standards track. I > propose the following: > > "The requirement status for all new algorithms will be OPTIONAL unless a > Standards Track document changes that (possibly including the Standards > Track document defining the algorithm). Only a Standards Track document > may make an algorithm ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY or remove the MANDATORY or > ENCOURAGED designation." > +1 > I'm also wondering where the proposed requirement status entries came > from. For instance, RSA/SHA-256 is shown as OPTIONAL, but RFC5702 uses > SHOULD, which suggests the term (per ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance) > should be ENCOURAGED. (dnssec-bis-updates-09 also says this, in Section > 2.) Similarly, I'm not recalling that we've issued any document > declaring RSA/MD5 OBSOLETE. Making that change here is fine, but it > should be called out as a change. And if these two are off, then are > there errors elsewhere? > +1 on both suggestions, assuming that for 2) you mean it should be DISCOURAGED, or the text in section 4 should be removed since this would make a new statement on algorithm strengths. That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it actually). Should we even publish this draft (reg-fixes) before maintenance-words is out? Not that I advocate more slowness in general, but it seems wrong to make a standards track document that adds a column with values that aren't defined yet... And about alg-allocations, i withdraw my earlier opposition about the reserved-for-testing allocations, and support this document going forward. Jelte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktK+04ACgkQ4nZCKsdOncXPZgCgrqAacH+0bcaLJbmiWX0ylE6O 22MAoJ/6UMwD/u1UhFj8DLlFtfY3TXCz =x2xZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 03:36:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FBA3A693C; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:36:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.227 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.227 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.872, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DcZrBiPhC+Ev; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44E33A67DF; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUIT9-0008PB-37 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:29:59 +0000 Received: from [213.178.172.147] (helo=TR-Sys.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUIT4-0008OO-5b for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:29:54 +0000 Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3.2) id AA164279379; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:29:39 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id MAA07811; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:29:38 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <201001111129.MAA07811@TR-Sys.de> Subject: [dnsext] Re: draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes vs. draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words To: jelte@isc.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:29:38 +0100 (MEZ) X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: In the message archived at , Jelte Jansen wrote: > That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but > still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. > DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while > ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note > that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it > actually). > > Should we even publish this draft (reg-fixes) before maintenance-words > is out? Not that I advocate more slowness in general, but it seems wrong > to make a standards track document that adds a column with values that > aren't defined yet... Note that draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words already is in state PUBLICATION REQUESTED. There have been a few discussions early in December, and AFAICS, the responsible AD is waiting for a revised draft version before issuing IETF LC, and Scott is working on it. (One particular procedural question raised was the intended status, BCP vs. PS.) So chances are good that draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words will be out for publication before any draft depending on it and still in this WG can catch up towards publication. The "MUST-implement" for DISCOURAGED has been discussed. The rationale so far was that an algorithm in this state will usually previously have been ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY, and hence it is expected that deployed implementations depend on it; to ensure a smooth phasing out of such implementations without disruption, it is wise to still require implementation of such algorithms. Kind regards, Alfred. -- +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes | Alfred Hoenes Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys. | | Gerlinger Strasse 12 | Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18 | | D-71254 Ditzingen | E-Mail: ah@TR-Sys.de | +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 04:03:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FF73A69B9; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:03:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KpdH+FceTj7w; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52EC03A67BD; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUIr0-000BRj-AV for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:54:38 +0000 Received: from [131.174.66.174] (helo=smtpout1.ru.nl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUIqx-000BRP-21 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:54:35 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS & ClamAV Received: from jelte (vhe-520087.sshn.net [195.169.221.157]) by smtp.ru.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8219EF020C; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:54:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.8.11] (dragon [192.168.8.11]) by jelte (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8521E3143; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:54:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B4B117C.50808@isc.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:54:36 +0100 From: Jelte Jansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?QWxmcmVkIO+/vQ==?= CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Re: draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes vs. draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words References: <201001111129.MAA07811@TR-Sys.de> In-Reply-To: <201001111129.MAA07811@TR-Sys.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/11/2010 12:29 PM, Alfred � wrote: > There have been a few discussions early in December, > My google skills seem to be aware of it being monday today, and i have a hard time finding that discussion, so let me apologize if i am repeating arguments that have been made already. > The "MUST-implement" for DISCOURAGED has been discussed. The > rationale so far was that an algorithm in this state will usually > previously have been ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY, and hence it is > expected that deployed implementations depend on it; to ensure > a smooth phasing out of such implementations without disruption, > it is wise to still require implementation of such algorithms. > That's the thing, for the path MANDATORY->DISCOURAGED->OBSOLETE, this makes complete sense. However, if you take ENCOURAGED->DISCOURAGED->OBSOLETE it's a bit weird; suddenly a SHOULD implement becomes a MUST implement, because we're trying to get rid of the feature... (and in the case of RSA/MD5, to stay a bit on topic, i guess 'NOT RECOMMENDED' becomes 'OBSOLETE' because 'DISCOURAGED' would actually be stronger than the current status. But OBSOLETE is also stronger in another way. Either choice actually changes the current value, so the document does make a 'new' statement about it) Jelte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktLEXwACgkQ4nZCKsdOncXVQwCgupzeG09cYweFYRzTenTNP8Ty clgAoJjxX/jrABWWId9AUGANZhQs3WVK =2Hmb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 04:28:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C789F3A67AF; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:28:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F2W8IgH-O7bY; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189623A67E6; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJHn-000FcP-Pr for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:22:19 +0000 Received: from [195.54.233.70] (helo=hutch.rfc1035.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJHl-000Fc5-3u for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:22:17 +0000 Received: from gromit.rfc1035.com (gromit.rfc1035.com [195.54.233.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jim) by hutch.rfc1035.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0D7A154283B for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:22:13 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: <3CED20C5-3AB0-405C-BC57-A38B01B0918E@rfc1035.com> From: Jim Reid To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: [dnsext] comments on draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation-00 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:22:13 +0000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I've reviewed the above draft and support it going forward. Some of the language though is clunky and could be improved: In Section 2: "For example, an algorithm might be sponsored by a government and use cryptography that has not been evaluated thoroughly enough to be able to be put on Standards Track. Another example is that the algorithm might have an unclear intellectual property rights situation, and that prevents the algorithm from being put on Standards Track." could be replaced by: "For instance an algorithm may have IPR or other complications preventing it receiving the thorough evaluation needes for a Standards Track RFC. "relatively rarely" (relative to what?) should be changed to "infrequently" The sentence "Because.... half full." is very awkward. I suggest the replacement text below: "To address concerns about the registry eventually filling up, the IETF SHOULD re-evaluate the requirements for entry into this registry no later than whenever 50% of the registry entries have been assigned." From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 04:30:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6273A67AF; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:30:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hjw0Vl-EhoeF; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C16C3A67A1; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJLK-000G0r-PW for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:25:58 +0000 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJLH-000G0L-Mi for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:25:55 +0000 Received: from WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (wsxghub1.nist.gov [129.6.18.96]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o0BCPk20012154; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:25:46 -0500 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov ([2002:8106:1260::8106:1260]) with mapi; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:25:46 -0500 From: "Rose, Scott W." To: Samuel Weiler , Andrew Sullivan CC: "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:25:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Thread-Topic: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Thread-Index: AcqRdZztBa2GMcjkRsi68LzcMDldwgBQ5PzM Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scott.rose@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/9/10 1:21 PM, "Samuel Weiler" wrote: > Tackling these two docs separately. First registry-fixes: >=20 > I think registry-fixes needs changes. >=20 > Adding the "requirement status" column to the registry is a fine idea > (note the change in terminology suggested by Brian Wellington, which I > support). >=20 > I'm concerned about the metric for making changes to the requirement > status: taken together, these two docs would allow an independent > submission (=3DRFC Editor stream document) to create a "MANDATORY" > algorithm. I think that's bad. >=20 > It also looks like there's also a possibility that an informational > RFC or independent submission could change the requirement status of > new algorithms, even if those were defined on the standards track. I > propose the following: >=20 > "The requirement status for all new algorithms will be OPTIONAL unless > a Standards Track document changes that (possibly including the > Standards Track document defining the algorithm). Only a Standards > Track document may make an algorithm ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY or remove > the MANDATORY or ENCOURAGED designation." >=20 Yeah, I thought about that while I was writing it, but never got around to asking the WG for ideas/consensus. I'll work that text in. Part of the hold on the ogud-maintenance-words draft right now is the dual use of OPTIONAL (RFC 2119 and the draft). Suggestions were: DESCRESIONARY= , ELECTIVE, or something else. This isn't strictly a DNS issue. > This suggests giving IANA a more complicated assignment metric for > this registry: "assignments" are RFC Required, but changes in the > requirement status field are still "Standards Action". >=20 > I'm also wondering where the proposed requirement status entries came > from. For instance, RSA/SHA-256 is shown as OPTIONAL, but RFC5702 > uses SHOULD, which suggests the term (per > ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance) should be ENCOURAGED. > (dnssec-bis-updates-09 also says this, in Section 2.) Similarly, I'm > not recalling that we've issued any document declaring RSA/MD5 > OBSOLETE. Making that change here is fine, but it should be called > out as a change. And if these two are off, then are there errors > elsewhere? >=20 The table is unchanged from the -00 draft which is pre-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance. So those words didn't "exist" :) Some of the ones listed as "OPTIONAL" should be "ENCOURAGED". Scott > -- Sam >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scott Rose NIST scottr@nist.gov ph: +1 301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 http://www.dnsops.gov/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 04:40:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0023A67D9; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:40:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KybJbFbjQF0w; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571273A67D6; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJSs-000H1n-2B for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:33:46 +0000 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJSo-000H1K-7z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:33:42 +0000 Received: from WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov (wsxghub2.nist.gov [129.6.18.19]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o0BCXHZF013635; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:33:17 -0500 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov ([2002:8106:1213::8106:1213]) with mapi; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:33:06 -0500 From: "Rose, Scott W." To: Jelte Jansen , Samuel Weiler CC: "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:33:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Thread-Topic: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Thread-Index: AcqSqUghJd71zMOtSYaV1Tti/pSRKgAEPbDX Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scott.rose@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/11/10 5:19 AM, "Jelte Jansen" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > +1 on both suggestions, assuming that for 2) you mean it should be > DISCOURAGED, or the text in section 4 should be removed since this would > make a new statement on algorithm strengths. >=20 > That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but > still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. > DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while > ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note > that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it actuall= y). >=20 We are using "DISCOURAGED" to mean it is in use, but the community is tryin= g to phase it out, so for backwards compatibility new implementations would need to understand it, but shouldn't use it going forward (if possible). While ENCOURAGED means it isn't widely used now, but the community thinks i= t is a good option/algorithm/whatever so this is the trial stage. If no problems are seen, expect it to become a new MANDATORY thing soon (for some definition of 'soon'). > Should we even publish this draft (reg-fixes) before maintenance-words > is out? Not that I advocate more slowness in general, but it seems wrong > to make a standards track document that adds a column with values that > aren't defined yet... >=20 Since we would be using the new words here, I hate to publish this before the ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words draft. Maybe at the same time. Hopefully the maintenance words draft will go quickly and this can follow. Scott > And about alg-allocations, i withdraw my earlier opposition about the > reserved-for-testing allocations, and support this document going forward= . >=20 > Jelte >=20 >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ >=20 > iEYEARECAAYFAktK+04ACgkQ4nZCKsdOncXPZgCgrqAacH+0bcaLJbmiWX0ylE6O > 22MAoJ/6UMwD/u1UhFj8DLlFtfY3TXCz > =3Dx2xZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scott Rose NIST scottr@nist.gov ph: +1 301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 http://www.dnsops.gov/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 04:48:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1367F3A67AF; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:48:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.698, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYP+PxfGzRks; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F123A6403; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 04:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJcA-000IcZ-0W for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:43:22 +0000 Received: from [213.178.172.147] (helo=TR-Sys.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJc5-000IbQ-CH for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:43:18 +0000 Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3.2) id AA164573785; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:43:05 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id NAA07982; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:43:05 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <201001111243.NAA07982@TR-Sys.de> Subject: [dnsext] Re: draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes vs. draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words To: jelte@isc.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:43:04 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4B4B117C.50808@isc.org> from Jelte Jansen at Jan "11," 2010 "12:54:36" pm X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Jelte Jansen wrote: > On 01/11/2010 12:29 PM, Alfred HÎnes wrote: >> There have been a few discussions early in December, > > My google skills seem to be aware of it being monday today, and i > have a hard time finding that discussion, so let me apologize if > i am repeating arguments that have been made already. In the lack of a proper 'home' mailing list, at least my part of the discussion of the maintenance-words draft has been off-list with the authors (since the -00 draft), and the outcome is visible in the diffs between the draft versions. (See also my trailing remark below.) > >> The "MUST-implement" for DISCOURAGED has been discussed. The >> rationale so far was that an algorithm in this state will usually >> previously have been ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY, and hence it is >> expected that deployed implementations depend on it; to ensure >> a smooth phasing out of such implementations without disruption, >> it is wise to still require implementation of such algorithms. > > That's the thing, for the path MANDATORY->DISCOURAGED->OBSOLETE, > this makes complete sense. However, if you take > ENCOURAGED->DISCOURAGED->OBSOLETE it's a bit weird; suddenly a > SHOULD implement becomes a MUST implement, because we're trying > to get rid of the feature... > > (and in the case of RSA/MD5, to stay a bit on topic, i guess 'NOT > RECOMMENDED' becomes 'OBSOLETE' because 'DISCOURAGED' would actually be > stronger than the current status. But OBSOLETE is also stronger in > another way. Either choice actually changes the current value, so the > document does make a 'new' statement about it) Well, I had purposely reported "the rationale so far". Personally, I would equally well favor demoting the implementation requirement for DISCOURAGED from "MUST" to "SHOULD". I thought the expected IETF LC discussion on the IETF main list would be the proper place for such discussion, since the scope of that draft far exceeds the scope of DNSEXT. ... > > Jelte Kind regards, Alfred. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 05:08:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9913A67A1; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:08:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.35 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.35 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.949, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jCYV9WXacq5H; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AB13A67AF; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJv5-000MIA-9y for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:02:55 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUJv2-000MHP-Gd for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:02:52 +0000 Received: from valholl.ogud.com (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0BD633Y047128; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:06:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <201001111306.o0BD633Y047128@stora.ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:02:37 -0500 To: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= , jelte@isc.org From: Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [dnsext] Re: draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes vs. draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: <201001111243.NAA07982@TR-Sys.de> References: <4B4B117C.50808@isc.org> <201001111243.NAA07982@TR-Sys.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 07:43 11/01/2010, Alfred =3D?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=3D?=3D wrote: >Jelte Jansen wrote: > > On 01/11/2010 12:29 PM, Alfred H=CEnes wrote: > >> There have been a few discussions early in December, > > > > My google skills seem to be aware of it being monday today, and i > > have a hard time finding that discussion, so let me apologize if > > i am repeating arguments that have been made already. > >In the lack of a proper 'home' mailing list, at least my part of the >discussion of the maintenance-words draft has been off-list with the >authors (since the -00 draft), and the outcome is visible in the >diffs between the draft versions. >(See also my trailing remark below.) > > > > >> The "MUST-implement" for DISCOURAGED has been discussed. The > >> rationale so far was that an algorithm in this state will usually > >> previously have been ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY, and hence it is > >> expected that deployed implementations depend on it; to ensure > >> a smooth phasing out of such implementations without disruption, > >> it is wise to still require implementation of such algorithms. > > > > That's the thing, for the path MANDATORY->DISCOURAGED->OBSOLETE, > > this makes complete sense. However, if you take > > ENCOURAGED->DISCOURAGED->OBSOLETE it's a bit weird; suddenly a > > SHOULD implement becomes a MUST implement, because we're trying > > to get rid of the feature... > > > > (and in the case of RSA/MD5, to stay a bit on topic, i guess 'NOT > > RECOMMENDED' becomes 'OBSOLETE' because 'DISCOURAGED' would actually be > > stronger than the current status. But OBSOLETE is also stronger in > > another way. Either choice actually changes the current value, so the > > document does make a 'new' statement about it) > >Well, I had purposely reported "the rationale so far". >Personally, I would equally well favor demoting the implementation >requirement for DISCOURAGED from "MUST" to "SHOULD". > >I thought the expected IETF LC discussion on the IETF main list >would be the proper place for such discussion, since the scope >of that draft far exceeds the scope of DNSEXT. ... > > > > > Jelte > >Kind regards, > Alfred. It is fine to have this discussion here for now, is: ENCOURAGED --> OBSOLETE is better than going through DISCOURAGED. Olafur From caracalla14@stepone.org Mon Jan 11 05:42:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BF93A6A0B for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:42:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -73.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-73.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B=5.777, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_72=0.6, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_4B815=1.934] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WtNuBWcrCMZc for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip-202.net-89-3-101.rev.numericable.fr (ip-202.net-89-3-101.rev.numericable.fr [89.3.101.202]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78973A6930 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:42:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 89.3.101.202 by mx1.stepone.org.s5b1.psmtp.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:41:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01ca92c3$c8d10520$6400a8c0@caracalla14> From: "info@ietf.org" To: Subject: A new settings file for the dnsext-archive@ietf.org has just been released Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:41:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA92C3.C8D10520" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.2730.2 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA92C3.C8D10520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear user of the ietf.org mailing service!We are informing you that because= of the security upgrade of the mailing service your mailbox (dnsext-archiv= e@ietf.org) settings were changed. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA92C3.C8D10520-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 05:56:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B786028C148; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:56:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tHnHCnaYviC3; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AF028C146; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUKeA-0002Ao-BL for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:30 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUKe7-0002AV-UX for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:49:28 +0000 Received: from stora.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0BDqpHD047475 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:52:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers@stora.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o0BDqpJL047474 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:52:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [65.122.17.41] (helo=fledge.watson.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.70 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NTlFk-000BbM-RL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:01:57 +0000 Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0A01sY6033731; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 19:01:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id o0A01rIB033726; Sat, 9 Jan 2010 19:01:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 19:01:53 -0500 (EST) From: Samuel Weiler To: Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement In-Reply-To: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> Message-ID: References: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:01:54 -0500 (EST) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Please note that draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation-00.txt alters > the way algorithm identifiers are assigned, and has a fail-safe > provision in it to protect the number space as it starts to be > depleted. It is particularly important that the WG decide whether > that provision is a good one and, if so, if it is set at the right > level. I'm concerned that the best way we've found, to date, of versioning the DNSSEC protocol is using algorithm numbers, and that we may find ourselves consuming more algorithm numbers for that purpose in the future That said, I'm content to let this change go through with some minor changes. Consistent with my recommendation re: registry-fixed and requirements status, I'd like to see this document repeat my proposed changes: "Unless specified in a Standards Track RFC, new algorithms will have a requirements status of OPTIONAL. Only a Standards Track RFC may set or change a requirements status of ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY." And, in keeping with the proposed fail-safe, I'd like to see half of the registry marked as "reserved". That at least reminds people to come back at read this doc at the appropriate point. -- Sam From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 06:45:20 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FEE3A6805; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:45:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.078 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.521, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m3Vi0c9HZvjV; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0193A67B1; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NULOS-0008Wq-RH for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:37:20 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NULOP-0008WH-Q9 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:37:17 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31F712FE8CA1 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:37:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:37:12 -0500 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Planning for meetings Message-ID: <20100111143712.GC46917@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, The response we received to our question about planning for meetings seemed to lean mostly in the direction of scheduling a virtual interim; several people also suggested that it will almost certainly require a follow-up meeting in Anaheim. Some of you may have noticed that Olafur already requested the Anaheim session. He is also attempting to set up a virtual meeting. We're aiming for the 16th or 17th of February, and have taken into account the various suggestions about possible times other than 15:00 UTC. For what it's worth, my experience with virtual meetings in BEHAVE suggests to me that one hour is about the limit for how long they are really effective. We do not have any confirmation of dates or times yet (nor even that the IESG will allow us to have the virtual meeting), so this is just a warning of what we're attempting and not an announcement of any meeting. While we sort that out, we strongly encourage those who have proposals in this area, however sketchy, to put together an Internet Draft, submit it, and draw the WG's attention to it. Thanks and best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA92CD.8FC87330-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 07:17:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77EF3A6805; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:17:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h2nqpJ+BOIr1; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D066A3A67EB; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NULuB-000CvL-Q9 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:10:07 +0000 Received: from [65.122.17.41] (helo=fledge.watson.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NULu7-000Cuo-Ke for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:10:03 +0000 Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0BF9lDd034260; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:09:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id o0BF9kVt034257; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:09:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:09:46 -0500 (EST) From: Samuel Weiler To: Jelte Jansen cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement In-Reply-To: <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> Message-ID: References: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:09:47 -0500 (EST) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: >> "The requirement status for all new algorithms will be OPTIONAL unless a >> Standards Track document changes that (possibly including the Standards >> Track document defining the algorithm). Only a Standards Track document >> may make an algorithm ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY or remove the MANDATORY or >> ENCOURAGED designation." > > +1 Thank you. I had misunderstood how ogud-iana-... defined "DISCOURAGED". That definition is bizarre. It we're going to use it, it seems that DISCOURAGED needs to go in the above list, too. But I'd rather see us not use that bizarre definition, even if it means defining the terms ourselves in this document. >> I'm also wondering where the proposed requirement status entries came >> from. ... are >> there errors elsewhere? > > +1 on both suggestions, assuming that ... Independent of the particular suggestions, I was (and am) hoping that someone (Scott?) will make sure each of these line items is correct and document that (in this doc?). > That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but > still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. > DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while > ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note > that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it actually). As above, this sounds bizarre to me. So bizarre that I'm dubious about using these definitions. Can we get by with defining our own terms in this doc, where necessary? -- Sam From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 08:04:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECA73A67E7; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:04:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5HqsJW+hVBKa; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351EF3A6783; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUMf4-000IEh-0M for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:58:34 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUMf0-000IEK-Fm for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:58:30 +0000 Received: from valholl.ogud.com (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o0BG1ijb048594; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:01:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-Id: <201001111601.o0BG1ijb048594@stora.ogud.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:58:14 -0500 To: Samuel Weiler , Jelte Jansen From: Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 10:09 11/01/2010, Samuel Weiler wrote: >>>"The requirement status for all new algorithms will be OPTIONAL unless a >>>Standards Track document changes that (possibly including the Standards >>>Track document defining the algorithm). Only a Standards Track document >>>may make an algorithm ENCOURAGED or MANDATORY or remove the MANDATORY or >>>ENCOURAGED designation." >> >>+1 > >Thank you. > >I had misunderstood how ogud-iana-... defined "DISCOURAGED". That >definition is bizarre. It we're going to use it, it seems that >DISCOURAGED needs to go in the above list, too. But I'd rather see >us not use that bizarre definition, even if it means defining the >terms ourselves in this document. send text. >>>I'm also wondering where the proposed requirement status entries came >>>from. ... are >>>there errors elsewhere? >> >>+1 on both suggestions, assuming that ... > >Independent of the particular suggestions, I was (and am) hoping >that someone (Scott?) will make sure each of these line items is >correct and document that (in this doc?). > >>That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but >>still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. >>DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while >>ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note >>that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it actually). > >As above, this sounds bizarre to me. So bizarre that I'm dubious >about using these definitions. Can we get by with defining our own >terms in this doc, where necessary? If the definitions are useless and can not be used in this context then it is dubious that the definitions can be used in a similar context. The point of having the two drafts is for one to have the practice and the other one demonstrating in practice that a vocabulary is useful. Lets fix the definitions, Olafur >-- Sam > From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 08:17:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8CF93A6875; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:17:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0EW30E2lKO6o; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778663A67E9; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:17:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUMrv-000JkQ-7B for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:11:51 +0000 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUMrn-000JjD-J1 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:11:43 +0000 Received: from WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov (wsxghub2.nist.gov [129.6.18.19]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o0BGBYse021517 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:11:34 -0500 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov ([2002:8106:1213::8106:1213]) with mapi; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:11:22 -0500 From: "Rose, Scott W." To: "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Thread-Topic: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement Thread-Index: AcqS0bPPISDXg4f8RzS9BhZw8Cv/AQABwjlX Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scott.rose@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 1/11/10 10:09 AM, "Samuel Weiler" wrote: >>=20 >> +1 on both suggestions, assuming that ... >=20 > Independent of the particular suggestions, I was (and am) hoping that > someone (Scott?) will make sure each of these line items is correct > and document that (in this doc?). >=20 I will add that. The most recently spec'ed algorithms (RSA/SHA-256 & SHA-512) did not give any status, so I was going with the default OPTIONAL unless there is some stronger group consensus to make it mandatory to implement. The basis was RFC 4034 for the basic algorithms. RSA/SHA-256/512 were adde= d later so OPTIONAL. I haven't heard a yay/nay for the others. Scott >> That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but >> still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. >> DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while >> ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note >> that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it actual= ly). >=20 > As above, this sounds bizarre to me. So bizarre that I'm dubious > about using these definitions. Can we get by with defining our own > terms in this doc, where necessary? >=20 > -- Sam >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scott Rose NIST scottr@nist.gov ph: +1 301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 http://www.dnsops.gov/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Mon Jan 11 09:17:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999DD3A67FB for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:17:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -73.274 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-73.274 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.383, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RATWARE_MS_HASH=1.398, RATWARE_OUTLOOK_NONAME=2.171, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KnJ2pvfL1djn for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from LPuteaux-156-16-8-41.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr (LPuteaux-156-16-8-41.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.14.87.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D39E03A6808 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:17:56 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [16.58.580.5] X-Originating-Email: [dnsext-archive@ietf.org] X-Sender: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Message-Id: <6eab01ca92ea$636a8bd0$29570e50@PORTAMEL> From: admin@viagra.com To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: RE: MedHelp 44999 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:17:56 -0800 (PST)
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA92EF.3FA4E290-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 11:42:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BBF3A692B; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:42:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aYnFWUdcm4it; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7553A6920; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUQ32-000HUh-Sl for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:35:32 +0000 Received: from [74.125.78.24] (helo=ey-out-2122.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUQ2z-000HUB-R1 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:35:30 +0000 Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 22so2023996eye.53 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:35:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=g03+VttLbjATbY0rHzRN5HPe5msZoEALsUB9VWLZs6I=; b=QJtR3Q4hvGpJcY4fT3j1ntJUzASfZ/MGQ2VOKYaRbzF22bmcL6EHttZE93aOhbOHM1 lYrQ5tFwVDdTGVtWHhNypuhnNA3txYwzX4Xiw8eJqYdQhFXlIY931F9moYRVmXPG3l9w i3eV99czkvPURvu6gX4/UnSJpTzfxTVl3MsjI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=dSrdtW6QFjYS0KjRF3HC/cYJAPvfn/JleAFKvbuqJu9U2NuQrIsl9XgyP16wQI5h/w 6vqETMAtKPXPxr3xIqePpPTifP0aRxAMB2pmGRvdYeP8W9qMiEOihP1pyoATB9fysNZT wOYYeTlqrdh4Y2wC9Pq6yBUlJdFjW5AtERFAM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.91.15 with SMTP id g15mr2599160wef.24.1263238528351; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:35:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> References: <20091219172324.GG52726@shinkuro.com> <4B4AFB4E.4020608@isc.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:35:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1028365c1001111135u2ac5fa16q3efe0deb8db228a9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes and draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation WGLC announcement From: Donald Eastlake To: Jelte Jansen Cc: Samuel Weiler , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d566adbfbfa7047ce8a34f Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --0016e6d566adbfbfa7047ce8a34f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jelte Jansen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 01/09/2010 07:21 PM, Samuel Weiler wrote: > > > > ... > > That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but > still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02. > DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while > ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note > that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it > actually). > I suggest changing to the notation used in at least some security RFCs: If the idea is to give the the current estimate of the direction of change in the implementation requirement, when that estimate is certain enough, then just do that explicitly. A suffix "+" indicates that the implementation requirement is likely to get stronger. A minus, the opposite. No suffix is required and none would be specified unless there was judged to be reasonable expectation that it would change reasonably soon. So, instead of "DISCOURAGED", you can have MUST- if it was mandatory and is expected to change to SHOULD or worse, or SHOULD- if it was SHOULD and expected to change to MAY or worse. So something expected to become mandatory would normally be SHOULD+ and if some problem is encountered before it is changed to mandatory, there is no problem putting thought a change to strip the "+" or to just change it to MAY or MUST NOT or whatever... I suppose I should go post this directly to the ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words draft... Thanks, Donald > Should we even publish this draft (reg-fixes) before maintenance-words > is out? Not that I advocate more slowness in general, but it seems wrong > to make a standards track document that adds a column with values that > aren't defined yet... > > And about alg-allocations, i withdraw my earlier opposition about the > reserved-for-testing allocations, and support this document going forward. > > Jelte > > --0016e6d566adbfbfa7047ce8a34f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jelte Jansen <jelte@isc.org><= /span> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/09/2010 07:21 PM, Samuel Weiler wrote:
>
> ...

That prompted me to take a quick look at the normative-referenced but
still very draft-y draft-ogud-iana-protocol-maintenance-words-02.
DISCOURAGED is MUST-implement-this but discouraged-to-use, while
ENCOURAGED is SHOULD-implement-this. That first one sounds wrong (note
that i haven't followed discussion on that one at all, or seen it actua= lly).

I suggest changing to the notatio= n used in at least some security RFCs: If the idea is to give the the curre= nt estimate of the direction of change in the implementation requirement, w= hen that estimate is certain enough, then just do that explicitly. A suffix= "+" indicates that the implementation requirement is likely to g= et stronger. A minus, the opposite. No suffix is required and none would be= specified unless there was judged to be reasonable expectation that it wou= ld change reasonably soon.

So, instead of "DISCOURAGED", you can have MU= ST- if it was mandatory and is expected to change to SHOULD or worse, or SH= OULD- if it was SHOULD and expected to change to MAY or worse. So something= expected to become mandatory would normally be SHOULD+ and if some problem= is encountered before it is changed to mandatory, there is no problem putt= ing thought a change to strip the "+" or to just change it to MAY= or MUST NOT or whatever...

I suppose I should go post this directly to the ogud-ia= na-protocol-maintenance-words draft...

Thanks,
Donald
=A0
Should we even publish this draft (reg-fixes) before maintenance-words
is out? Not that I advocate more slowness in general, but it seems wrong to make a standards track document that adds a column with values that
aren't defined yet...

And about alg-allocations, i withdraw my earlier opposition about the
reserved-for-testing allocations, and support this document going forward.<= br>
Jelte

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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CA9303.6AE57CD0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jan 11 15:43:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904A53A6835; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:43:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FddcIpzmoAqK; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86BB93A67F5; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUTmu-000MuX-WD for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:35:09 +0000 Received: from [209.85.216.204] (helo=mail-px0-f204.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1NUTmr-000Mu5-U3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:35:05 +0000 Received: by pxi42 with SMTP id 42so16192968pxi.5 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:35:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.57.7 with SMTP id f7mr13307652rva.132.1263252902338; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:35:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6983BF97BFC24D4EA551F14071232918014043C4@melmail.netstarnetworks.com> References: <6983BF97BFC24D4EA551F14071232918014042C2@melmail.netstarnetworks.com> <6f5b6fe71001110748t2646d8f1te95e024afd095648@mail.gmail.com> <6983BF97BFC24D4EA551F14071232918014043C4@melmail.netstarnetworks.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:35:02 +0000 Message-ID: <6f5b6fe71001111535u2ae37a28p7e1c7c4cc2f19b7a@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Use of DNS SRV records for host selection From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Colm_MacC=E1rthaigh?= To: Greg Daley , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Replying off list was not intentional, bringing this back on-list :-) 2010/1/11 Greg Daley : > Hi Colm, > > You didn't respond on the list. =A0Was this intentional? > > If not, could you please make any responses to the list, > so that there's a record of why changes were made. > > Answers inline below: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Colm MacC=E1rthaigh [mailto:colm@allcosts.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2010 2:49 AM >> To: Greg Daley >> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Use of DNS SRV records for host selection >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Greg Daley >> wrote: >> > URL: >> > =A0 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daley-dnsext-host-srv-00 >> >> The underscore effectively subtracts one byte from the maximum >> hostname length. Is there really a need for an underscore? In section >> 4, what's a negative response? Is a CNAME/DNAME ok (and then the usual >> following ) ? Negative response should probably be defined as a zero >> number of answers, or similar. > > I will note that the underscore effectively reduces the length of the > hostname due to the label length constraint. > > I do not know if there is a strict need for an underscore, but for > this version of the draft wanted to be able to operate without > modification to the SRV RFC 2782. =A0The obsoleted RFC 2052 had no > underscores required, and that behaviour was explicitly changed in the > revision. > > For hosts (rather than services), one could possibly implement SRV > records to have the same name component as the A or AAAA record, but > some implementations have an explicit (Service,Proto) tuple when > creating SRV records (for example Windows Server 2008). > > I'm trying to determine the utility of the system first and foremost > (rather than requiring server modifications). > > The SRV record contains only a Target field, which is required to > have a host lookup (such as A or AAAA), not allowed to be an alias > (CNAME or DNAME). I merely meant if this pattern was valid; question; _foo._host.example.com IN SRV answer: _foo._host.example.com IN CNAME _bar._host.example.com ... _bar._host.example.com IN SRV I think it should be, with regular CNAME/DNAME behaviour applying ... but it's why I wondered if "negative response" should imply "zero answers". It was just illustrative. > You are right with regard to the Negative response, I will clarify > this as 0 Answer RRs. > > >> Labels can contain dots (see RFC1035 5.1). It feels like the hostname >> should be the first label, and as simple as that. Dot-splitting is >> more complicated. > > Thanks, as you point out, the description for \X states that "\." can > be placed in a label. > > I was using the preferred syntax from S2.3.1 which indicates > alphanumeric and hyphens compose labels: > > ::=3D | " " > ::=3D