From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 1 00:29:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BEB93A67C3; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:29:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.146, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xxrX+yDVImBU; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C4D3A67D7; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUE6t-000G5C-3N for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 07:22:59 +0000 Received: from [193.227.124.2] (helo=mx01.bfk.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUE6q-000G4T-Gq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 07:22:56 +0000 Received: from mx00.int.bfk.de ([10.119.110.2]) by mx01.bfk.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1OUE6l-00038h-IP; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 07:22:51 +0000 Received: by bfk.de with local id 1OUE6h-0006QG-1C; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 07:22:47 +0000 To: Alfred =?us-ascii?Q?=3D=3Fhp-roman8=3FB=3FSM5uZXM=3D=3F=3D?= Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, dnsop@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] New Version Notification - draft-gudmundsson-dnsext-srv-clarify-01.txt (fwd) References: <201006301816.UAA26126@TR-Sys.de> From: Florian Weimer Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 07:22:46 +0000 In-Reply-To: <201006301816.UAA26126@TR-Sys.de> (Alfred's message of "Wed\, 30 Jun 2010 20\:16\:20 +0200 \(MESZ\)") Message-ID: <82fx031xa1.fsf@mid.bfk.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: * Alfred: > My apologies for cross-posting, > but this is inherently a cross-wg and cross-area topic: > > The revised draft contains clarifications for DNS service discovery > using SRV RRs and suggests methods to deal with the restrictions > imposed by draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports. It is intended that both > drafts will eventually be published in a coordinated manner. > > > Abstract > > The DNS SRV record has been specified in RFC 2052 and RFC 2782 for > use in dynamic service discovery for a domain. These two RFCs did > not clearly specify an IANA registry for the names of the services > and their underlying protocols. This document clarifies RFC 2782 > regarding the formation and use of the Service Prefix in the owner > name of SRV records, based on the unified IANA registry for "Service > Names and Transport Protocol Port Numbers". Wouldn't it be better to put that effort into a SRV successor which focuses on cryptographic binding and the introduction of (generic, cross-application) transports above TCP/UDP? Right now, we've got many protocols which can run over HTTP(S) and home-grown pseudo-transport layers, and with SRV records, it is not possible to figure out if HTTP is to be used or not. --=20 Florian Weimer BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstra=DFe 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 1 01:48:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC1D3A67E5; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 01:48:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.784, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YHPq1cRhuOkk; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 01:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D8B3A67C3; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 01:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUFMq-000Pbv-CX for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:43:32 +0000 Received: from [192.100.122.230] (helo=mgw-mx03.nokia.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUFMm-000Pb6-IB for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 08:43:29 +0000 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.3.3/Switch-3.3.3) with ESMTP id o618gquO019847; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:43:09 +0300 Received: from vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.30]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:43:08 +0300 Received: from mgw-sa01.ext.nokia.com ([147.243.1.47]) by vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:43:08 +0300 Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (esdhcp030222.research.nokia.com [172.21.30.222]) by mgw-sa01.ext.nokia.com (Switch-3.3.3/Switch-3.3.3) with ESMTP id o618h7Jp022030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:43:07 +0300 Subject: [dnsext] Re: [port-srv-reg] New Version Notification for draft-gudmundsson-dnsext-srv-clarify-00 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.1 at fit.nokia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--981131304; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <201006301801.UAA26017@TR-Sys.de> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:42:59 +0100 Cc: Joe Touch , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org, draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports@tools.IETF.ORG Message-Id: <398CC265-20E3-4E97-8A36-E8CED3B6E0B8@nokia.com> References: <201006301801.UAA26017@TR-Sys.de> To: ah@tr-sys.de X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.5 (mail.fit.nokia.com); Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:43:00 +0300 (EEST) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2010 08:43:08.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E0C1500:01CB18F9] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --Apple-Mail-4--981131304 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, On 2010-6-30, at 19:01, ah@tr-sys.de wrote: > Please do not neglect the criticism spelled out repeatedly for > draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports but rejected by your team. This > draft tries to accommodate the restrictions imposed by that memo. > Yet, to be useful for aligning previous RFCs now deemed non- > conformant with these rules and recent/ongoing work specifically > calling for multi-label hierarchical Service Prefixes, this > draft needs to show a uniform path that can be recommended > to the authors / WGs where these RFCs are originating from. >=20 > Thus, as a replacement mechanism for specifications using > Service Prefixes with non-transport protocol Protocol Labels > and/or more than two labels, the non-normative extension > mechanism proposed is an essential part of this memo. >=20 > Unless the restrictions imposed by draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports > on the lenght of Service Names and the one-servie-name-per- > application rule are being relaxed substantially, this extension > mechanism will remain in this document. OK, I'm confused. We had a lunch meeting in Anaheim where Olafur was = present, and we went down the list of planned changes to iana-ports to = explicitly make sure the two documents are aligned. If they now are not aligned, there are basically two possibilities: = Either we we messed things up when updating iana-ports, but I at least = don't know where we did. Or draft-gudmundsson changed or is planned to = change in ways that are different than what we agreed on. Can we pencil in a time for a Webex call in order to make progress here? Lars PS: Let's please try to take the heat out of this discussion. 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([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRViRsQllwHh; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D5A3A6781; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUMzx-0009EL-97 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:52:25 +0000 Received: from [207.210.219.233] (helo=stpeter.im) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUMzu-0009Dx-Iu for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:52:23 +0000 Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-121.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-121.cisco.com [64.101.72.121]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E380240E4D; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4C2CC7C3.2020005@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:52:19 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch CC: =?UTF-8?B?QWxmcmVkIO+/vQ==?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org, draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports@tools.IETF.ORG, Alexey Melnikov , Joe Hildebrand , Ben Campbell Subject: [dnsext] Re: [apps-discuss] [port-srv-reg] New Version Notification for draft-gudmundsson-dnsext-srv-clarify-00 References: <201006302006.WAA26281@TR-Sys.de> <4C2BBEA8.6070904@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <4C2BBEA8.6070904@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080709030704090406070500" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080709030704090406070500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A point of clarification... On 6/30/10 4:01 PM, Joe Touch wrote: > "xmpp" is does not have an Assigned Number, and is not being used 'loca= lly', and > was never registered with the SRV registry either. Yes, there appear to= be a few > other uses of SRV records other than for the kind of services indicated= in the > IANA ports tale or the SRV registry. XMPP does have two registered ports (5222 and 5269) but the XMPP WG has been waiting for the service registry issue to be settled before adding the appropriate service name registration to the IANA considerations for draft-ietf-xmpp-3920bis, which is currently in WGLC. See for instance: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xmpp/current/msg00313.html Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms080709030704090406070500 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN 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10:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUNWX-000EKV-1R for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:26:05 +0000 Received: from [207.210.219.233] (helo=stpeter.im) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUNWT-000EJz-SP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:26:02 +0000 Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-121.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-121.cisco.com [64.101.72.121]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6097140E26; Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4C2CCFA7.7030000@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:25:59 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Touch CC: =?UTF-8?B?QWxmcmVkIO+/vQ==?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org, draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports@tools.IETF.ORG, Alexey Melnikov , Joe Hildebrand , Ben Campbell Subject: [dnsext] Re: [apps-discuss] [port-srv-reg] New Version Notification for draft-gudmundsson-dnsext-srv-clarify-00 References: <201006302006.WAA26281@TR-Sys.de> <4C2BBEA8.6070904@isi.edu> <4C2CC7C3.2020005@stpeter.im> <4C2CC9F6.8010503@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <4C2CC9F6.8010503@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030309030007060700090606" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030309030007060700090606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/1/10 11:01 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 > Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> A point of clarification... >> >> On 6/30/10 4:01 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >> >>> "xmpp" is does not have an Assigned Number, and is not being used 'lo= cally', and Could you clarify what it means to use something "locally"? >>> was never registered with the SRV registry either. Yes, there appear = to be a few >>> other uses of SRV records other than for the kind of services indicat= ed in the >>> IANA ports tale or the SRV registry. >> >> XMPP does have two registered ports (5222 and 5269) >=20 > Agreed - neither is listed as "xmpp", though. Correct. > "xmpp-client" and "xmpp-server" are both listed in IANA ports and in th= e DNS SRV > registry, though. >=20 > The point above is about using "xmpp" as the service string. Is this a reference to the IM and presence SRV label registries called for by RFC 3861? http://www.iana.org/assignments/im-srv-labels/im-srv-labels.xhtml http://www.iana.org/assignments/pres-srv-labels/pres-srv-labels.xhtml Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms030309030007060700090606 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q 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wOpaOStwrpoWn+jCuGrde9HKnKr9MZFr8bZCxSqBvK6Wmqs+j3+61m4cFio+ElvVfSqskeX7 Mz7Dduw6PnjW1bTV2+aXcpRnfsQ+P+CNb1TUhAvwhl/xQEIlGk2OuBT+xpyPKkzprrobuz8g RuDqm5aPkEhw8YzGyZ4qFYhEhqc8qRXQ6qzHm9fAduGlbcm00wmOZ4QwS6ErWWY7WaSQJef/ RaXpJYAY3/8ywwAAAAAAAA== --------------ms030309030007060700090606-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jul 2 04:20:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD893A6805 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -43%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.008 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.008 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CdkYno+yY2hh for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-94-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net (201-94-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net [92.112.94.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 82E063A680C for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:20:31 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 2 05:58:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30623A6872; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.33 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.33 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.835, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LZdBZeAoUelT; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A573A6822; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUfhX-0007oL-5l for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:50:39 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUfhT-0007nh-2n for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:50:35 +0000 Received: from stora.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o62CoVLw037307 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 08:50:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@stora.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id o62CoTSW037306 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 08:50:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [128.9.64.64] (helo=vapor.isi.edu) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUNAk-000B7k-Ah for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:03:34 +0000 Received: from [75.214.235.123] (123.sub-75-214-235.myvzw.com [75.214.235.123]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o61H1gf8014934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C2CC9F6.8010503@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:01:42 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Saint-Andre CC: =?UTF-8?B?QWxmcmVkIO+/vQ==?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org, draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports@tools.IETF.ORG, Alexey Melnikov , Joe Hildebrand , Ben Campbell Subject: [dnsext] Re: [apps-discuss] [port-srv-reg] New Version Notification for draft-gudmundsson-dnsext-srv-clarify-00 References: <201006302006.WAA26281@TR-Sys.de> <4C2BBEA8.6070904@isi.edu> <4C2CC7C3.2020005@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4C2CC7C3.2020005@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig3E0482C82727BB735E186D13" X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig3E0482C82727BB735E186D13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > A point of clarification... >=20 > On 6/30/10 4:01 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 >> "xmpp" is does not have an Assigned Number, and is not being used 'loc= ally', and >> was never registered with the SRV registry either. Yes, there appear t= o be a few >> other uses of SRV records other than for the kind of services indicate= d in the >> IANA ports tale or the SRV registry. >=20 > XMPP does have two registered ports (5222 and 5269) Agreed - neither is listed as "xmpp", though. "xmpp-client" and "xmpp-server" are both listed in IANA ports and in the = DNS SRV registry, though. The point above is about using "xmpp" as the service string. > but the XMPP WG has > been waiting for the service registry issue to be settled before adding= > the appropriate service name registration to the IANA considerations fo= r > draft-ietf-xmpp-3920bis, which is currently in WGLC. >=20 > See for instance: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xmpp/current/msg00313.html >=20 > Peter >=20 --------------enig3E0482C82727BB735E186D13 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAkwsyfYACgkQE5f5cImnZrtk2QCgg3TyZZ8s1zK6OjOIahWoJ8Av a7YAnisG/9PmEkiUN2niddiP1gcvYi2J =V0cA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig3E0482C82727BB735E186D13-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 2 05:58:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D273A6822; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:58:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TtZldG5zr5Rm; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3DC3A680F; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUfhl-0007pf-0x for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:50:53 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUfhd-0007oo-2G for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:50:45 +0000 Received: from stora.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o62Cohm7037317 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 08:50:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@stora.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id o62CohD6037316 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 08:50:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [128.9.64.64] (helo=vapor.isi.edu) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OUOMH-000LJJ-SA for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Jul 2010 18:19:34 +0000 Received: from [75.215.102.184] (184.sub-75-215-102.myvzw.com [75.215.102.184]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o61ICHZr004009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C2CDA80.50109@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:12:16 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Saint-Andre CC: =?UTF-8?B?QWxmcmVkIO+/vQ==?= , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org, apps-discuss@ietf.org, draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports@tools.IETF.ORG, Alexey Melnikov , Joe Hildebrand , Ben Campbell Subject: [dnsext] Re: [apps-discuss] [port-srv-reg] New Version Notification for draft-gudmundsson-dnsext-srv-clarify-00 References: <201006302006.WAA26281@TR-Sys.de> <4C2BBEA8.6070904@isi.edu> <4C2CC7C3.2020005@stpeter.im> <4C2CC9F6.8010503@isi.edu> <4C2CCFA7.7030000@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4C2CCFA7.7030000@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigBB6CAE19B4FCCC9113CEC694" X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigBB6CAE19B4FCCC9113CEC694 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > On 7/1/10 11:01 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >> Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>> A point of clarification... >>> >>> On 6/30/10 4:01 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >>> >>>> "xmpp" is does not have an Assigned Number, and is not being used 'l= ocally', and >=20 > Could you clarify what it means to use something "locally"? That's the text RFC 2782; I presume it means "has meaning at the two endp= oints, rather than in an IANA registry". >>>> was never registered with the SRV registry either. Yes, there appear= to be a few >>>> other uses of SRV records other than for the kind of services indica= ted in the >>>> IANA ports tale or the SRV registry. >>> XMPP does have two registered ports (5222 and 5269) >> >> Agreed - neither is listed as "xmpp", though. >=20 > Correct. >=20 >> "xmpp-client" and "xmpp-server" are both listed in IANA ports and in t= he DNS SRV >> registry, though. >> >> The point above is about using "xmpp" as the service string. >=20 > Is this a reference to the IM and presence SRV label registries called > for by RFC 3861? Yes. Those seem like they would need to be in the SRV registry, not a sep= arate registry, AFAICT. The problem is that RFC3861 is using these labels in a = way that seems a bit inconsistent with what is expected from RFC2782: _im._bip.example.com I.e., 2872 seems like it would expect, e.g., adding _im or _pres in front= of _bip in front of a transport protocol string: _im._bip._tcp.example.com (or for _udp) =09 _pres._bip._tcp.example.com (or for _udp) RFC3861 omits the transport protocol in that string. The example in RFC 3920 is consistent with RFC2782, IMO: _xmpp-client._tcp.example.com As is RFC 3263: _sip._tcp.example.com Joe > http://www.iana.org/assignments/im-srv-labels/im-srv-labels.xhtml >=20 > http://www.iana.org/assignments/pres-srv-labels/pres-srv-labels.xhtml >=20 > Peter >=20 --------------enigBB6CAE19B4FCCC9113CEC694 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAkws2oAACgkQE5f5cImnZrvW4wCg0Y0VWfulyqk5N86J7GYnNI2N 8AQAoMrnvSO2ldCyFT2OKrOcYMQbrGeJ =dnKa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigBB6CAE19B4FCCC9113CEC694-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 3 10:09:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECA23A67D0 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:09:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -93%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.969 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.969 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z25ORQRMb-fz for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from accesshaiti-134-34.accesshaiti.net (accesshaiti-134-34.accesshaiti.net [200.2.134.34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4786C3A6811 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -93% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100703170900.4786C3A6811@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jul 4 11:24:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7CB3A6875 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -45%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -31.941 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-31.941 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O5NdeCxC4oYS for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from secretariness-brush.volia.net (secretariness-brush.volia.net [77.123.130.35]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E48263A6899 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -45% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100704182412.E48263A6899@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 08:35:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790D43A6956; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:35:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4+9guPa-LbZ0; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0083A693D; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 08:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVnZt-000208-Qq for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:27:25 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVnZo-0001zZ-TC for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:27:21 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E6071ECB408 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 15:27:19 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:27:14 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] [twalsh@juniper.net: FW: Nomcom 2010-11: Final Call for Volunteers] Message-ID: <20100705152714.GB49823@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Dear colleagues, Just a reminder that the NomCom is still looking for volunteers. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32] verified) by execdsl.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 18730920 for ajs@shinkuro.com; Sun, 04 Jul 2010 13:35:06 -0600 Received-SPF: pass receiver=execdsl.com; client-ip=64.170.98.32; envelope-from=ietf-bounces@ietf.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75D93A68A4; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF2F3A6781 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NY00NwO9wyng for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og106.obsmtp.com (exprod7og106.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.165]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E4D3A6813 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob106.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTDDjDEHyJkXwN5bzSfBXMNIyusNpEiPO@postini.com; Sun, 04 Jul 2010 12:37:49 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:21:57 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:21:56 -0400 From: Thomas Walsh To: "ietf@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:21:55 -0400 Subject: FW: Nomcom 2010-11: Final Call for Volunteers Thread-Topic: Nomcom 2010-11: Final Call for Volunteers Thread-Index: AcsbrFU9SbpLpRzmRBqJr67Jl1KXDAAALyRw Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Please read the forwarded message below. It describes the Final Call for Volunteers for the 2010-11 Nomcom. We could still use another 10-20 volunteers. The IETF nominating committee appoints folks to fill the open slots on the IAOC, the IAB, and the IESG. The 10 nominating committee members are selected randomly from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population. The details of the operation of the nomcom can be found in RFC 3777. This is your last opportunity for this year to put your name forward and volunteer to help the IETF in choosing its leadership. Regards, Tom Walsh Chair, Nomcom 2010-2011 -----Original Message----- From: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of NomCom Chair Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 12:09 PM To: IETF Announcement list Subject: Nomcom 2010-11: Final Call for Volunteers Hi Folks, THIS IS IT! This is the final call for volunteers for the 2010-11 Nomcom. You may volunteer until 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC) this Thursday, July 8, 2010. To date, we have 80 volunteers for this year's NomCom. The current list (i.e., the Third Listing) of the 80 volunteers may be found at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ann/nomcom/2375/ If you have volunteered and your name does not appear on the above list or have not heard from me otherwise, please contact me at nomcom-chair@ietf.org ASAP. However, we could still use more volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population. I would like to see a pool of at least 90-100, so another 10-20 more volunteers by Thursday would be great! As a reminder, volunteers must have attended 3 of the past 5 IETF meetings - per RFC 3777, which means any 3 of the following meetings: IETF-73, IETF-74, IETF-75, IETF-76 and IETF-77. If you qualify, and are willing to forgo appointment to any of the positions for which the nominating committee is responsible, please volunteer. The primary activity for this NomCom will begin just prior to IETF-78 in Maastricht and should be completed in early January 2011. The NomCom will be collecting requirements from the community, as well as talking to candidates and to community members about candidates. There will be weekly conference calls to ensure progress. Thus, being a NomCom member does require some time commitment. While, there is no requirement in RFC 3777 that a participant attend IETF meetings while serving on NomCom, folks should consider that during the IETF meetings, folks that do not attend would be expected to remotely participate during the day in the time zones of the meeting locations - Maastricht the end of July and Beijing in November. The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2011 IETF meeting, and thus the positions for which the nominating committee is responsible, are summarized in the initial announcement: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ann/nomcom/2330/ Please volunteer by sending an email before 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC) July 8, 2010 as follows: To: nomcom-chair@ietf.org Subject: Nomcom 2010-11 Volunteer Please include the following information in the body: // As you enter in the IETF Registration Form, // First/Given name followed by Last/Family Name // typically what goes in the Company field // in the IETF Registration Form [] // // For confirmation if selected Please expect an email response from me within 3 days stating whether or not you are qualified. If you don't receive a response, please re-send your email with the tag "Duplicate:" added to the subject line. Thank you and I hope to hear from you by July 8, Thomas Walsh Chair, Nomcom 2010-11 Email: nomcom-chair@ietf.org twalsh@juniper.net _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 11:11:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2595828C0CF; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:11:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.7 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1JxsibTgIJlH; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25B53A676A; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVq48-000PF2-Pr for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:06:48 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVq45-000PEX-Gx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:06:45 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0D68B1ECB408 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:06:41 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Message-ID: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="EuxKj2iCbKjpUGkD" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --EuxKj2iCbKjpUGkD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Dear colleagues, This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. Two of the responses asked for us to move the timelines; I have resisted those calls, but I wonder whether others think more aggressive timelines to be reasonable. I attach it again here for your convenience. I have not yet made the editorial changes suggested by one eagle-eyed reviewer (off list). This topic will take a considerable chunk of the time we have scheduled in Maastricht. The charter represents our commitments to the rest of the IETF. If you have opinions on it, it would be nice to hear them. We expect to discuss this in Maastricht and then send it along to our AD, barring any changes. Best, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. --EuxKj2iCbKjpUGkD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-2010-05-28.txt" DRAFT charter for DNSEXT, 2010-05-28. SUBJECT TO CHANGE Description of Working Group: The DNS has a large installed base and repertoire of protocol specifications. The DNSEXT working group will actively advance DNS protocol-related RFCs on the standards track while thoroughly reviewing further proposed extensions. The scope of the DNSEXT WG is confined to the DNS protocol, particularly changes that affect DNS protocols "on the wire" or the internal processing of DNS data. DNS operations are out of scope for the WG. The WG will consider work in the following areas: * DNSSEC and TSIG/TKEY algorithm maintenance * Mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0) * Hardening DNS protocol and providing guidance to implementers * Advancing existing DNS-related Proposed Standard RFCs to Draft/Full Standard * Obsoleting DNS-related RFCs * Maintaining a Wiki containing a guide to DNS protocol RFCs * Improving DNS zone synchronization mechanisms * Examining transport protocols, possibly adding new ones. * Mechanisms to alias DNS trees or parts thereof While the DNS offers two mechanisms for aliasing DNS labels -- CNAME and DNAME -- neither of these provides the support necessary to alias completely one part of the DNS tree as another part. There are claims that the restriction has proven to be too great in practice, particularly with burgeoning deployment of IDNA and the need to provide domain name variants. The issue is made more complex by DNSSEC The DNSEXT WG will evaluate ways to provide such aliasing, to add metadata to zones to allow easier operation of zones when such aliasing is needed, or both. The WG will also provide an informational document outlining the various strategies available, what they might be used for, and what their limitations are. It is possible that the WG will conclude no aliasing or metadata support is possible, or that none of the proposals so far made are adequate. Before formal adoption of any work item at least 5 working group participants must publicly state that the item is within charter and is a worthwhile item for further study. The DNSEXT WG will conduct the specified RFC5395 review of RR templates as they are posted, and EDNS0 Option templates if EDNS0-bis updates registration requirements. The WG will review DNS protocol related work which may originate elsewhere in the IETF, including AD-sponsored submissions or drafts in other working group. Goals and Milestones: Done AXFR Clarify to IESG Done DNS existing transport protocol recommendations/clarifications to IESG June 2010 RFC3597-bis Unknown RR advanced to IESG for PS July 2010 DNSKEY Registry fixes and allocation procedure advanced to IESG July 2010 DNSSEC Errata document to IESG Sept 2010 EDNS0-bis update advanced to IESG Dec 2010 TSIG/MD5 Obsoleting to IESG Dec 2010 IXFR-only to IESG July 2011 WG consensus on new or revised RRTYPEs for DNS tree aliasing work July 2011 Interoperation testing on new or revised RRTYPEs for DNS tree aliasing (particularly with existing deployed code) Nov 2011 Document on new RRTYPE or revised RRTYPE handling for DNS tree aliasing to IESG Nov 2011 Document on in-zone metadata for DNS tree aliasing to IESG Nov 2011 Document on uses and limitations of different DNS tree aliasing techniques to IESG --EuxKj2iCbKjpUGkD-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 11:14:54 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9956F3A6836; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:14:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.979 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.279, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lUoKA516xDZ0; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49FC3A676A; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVq8J-000PkM-Ji for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:11:07 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVq8G-000PjT-Nr for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:11:04 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDE441ECB408 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:11:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:11:02 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? Message-ID: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, We have received a request that the WG adopt draft-eastlake-dnsext-xnamercode-02.txt and make some decisions about it. We ask participants to express their support or non-support of adoption of the document. The usual conventions apply: five participants must express their support, their view that the document is on-charter, and their willingness to review. We will have some time to discuss the document and next steps when in Maastricht. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 11:25:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8283A68BB; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.443 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.557, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FTOZ91hlTHIN; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3BC3A6860; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVqJK-0001TK-C2 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:22:30 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVqJH-0001Sk-R8 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:22:27 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D4AA31ECB408 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:22:26 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:22:25 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, We received a request to adopt draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 as a WG item. Some have suggested that such an adoption is not consistent with our existing charter. The chairs take no position at the moment on the correctness of that assertion, but note that the draft charter previously circulated contains language that would explicitly put this work under the (new) charter. We ask WG participants who want this work adopted to express their support of the work, their view that it is on-charter, and their willingness to review the work. The usual conventions requiring five such reviewers apply. There will be time in the Maastricht meeting to discuss this item. Best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 11:27:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE3D3A68E7; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.027 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.027 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.138, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UqL3aIj9-1Ok; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1A43A690D; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVqM7-0001r1-Ur for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:25:23 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVqM5-0001qe-GC for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:25:21 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7486A1ECB408 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:25:20 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:25:18 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Draft agenda for IETF78 Message-ID: <20100705182518.GI49823@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, I have uploaded a draft agenda for IETF78. You can see it at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/agenda/dnsext.txt. The agenda, despite the time we have reserved, is pretty full. If you have things you want to add to this agenda, please contact me as soon as possible. Earlier requests will get priority over later requests. Best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 12:23:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA2E3A695E; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:23:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.329 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.329 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.776, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZsEenzsuEtfm; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC31E3A6807; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVrBG-0008Ut-Cy for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 19:18:14 +0000 Received: from [207.182.41.81] (helo=hoffman.proper.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVrBD-0008U5-DC for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 19:18:11 +0000 Received: from [10.20.30.158] (75-101-30-90.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.30.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o65JI8Hx004136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:18:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 12:18:06 -0700 To: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 2:06 PM -0400 7/5/10, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter >for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. Two of the >responses asked for us to move the timelines; I have resisted those >calls, but I wonder whether others think more aggressive timelines to >be reasonable. More aggressive timelines are possible for the aliasing work, given that if no consensus is possible, the work could just be killed. They are not possible for things that are supposed to be done. Current: June 2010 RFC3597-bis Unknown RR advanced to IESG for PS July 2010 DNSKEY Registry fixes and allocation procedure advanced to IESG July 2010 DNSSEC Errata document to IESG Sept 2010 EDNS0-bis update advanced to IESG Dec 2010 TSIG/MD5 Obsoleting to IESG Dec 2010 IXFR-only to IESG July 2011 WG consensus on new or revised RRTYPEs for DNS tree aliasing work July 2011 Interoperation testing on new or revised RRTYPEs for DNS tree aliasing (particularly with existing deployed code) Nov 2011 Document on new RRTYPE or revised RRTYPE handling for DNS tree aliasing to IESG Nov 2011 Document on in-zone metadata for DNS tree aliasing to IESG Nov 2011 Document on uses and limitations of different DNS tree aliasing techniques to IESG Proposed: Aug 2010 RFC3597-bis Unknown RR advanced to IESG for PS Aug 2010 DNSKEY Registry fixes and allocation procedure advanced to IESG Aug 2010 DNSSEC Errata document to IESG Sept 2010 EDNS0-bis update advanced to IESG Sept 2010 IXFR-only to IESG Jan 2011 WG consensus on new or revised RRTYPEs for DNS tree aliasing work Feb 2011 Interoperation testing on new or revised RRTYPEs for DNS tree aliasing (particularly with existing deployed code) May 2011 Document on new RRTYPE or revised RRTYPE handling for DNS tree aliasing to IESG May 2011 Document on in-zone metadata for DNS tree aliasing to IESG May 2011 Document on uses and limitations of different DNS tree aliasing techniques to IESG Notes on the proposed changes: - We need a small amount of time to push the first three items over the line - "TSIG/MD5 Obsoleting" seems to have no interest; let's drop it - We should know within four months if there can even be agreement on aliasing; taking more time than that is unlikely to get us more agreement. - Once (if) there is agreement on aliasing, the three documents should fall out quickly, other than agreement on how they affect DNSSEC --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 17:14:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB723A68A4; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:14:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.351 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.351 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.350, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MCSzeWHfzhjD; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3823C3A677C; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVvgs-000C4D-ME for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 00:07:10 +0000 Received: from [213.152.49.121] (helo=insensate.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVvgp-000C3f-D6 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 00:07:07 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by insensate.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB9A2AC310; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:07:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Lawrence Conroy In-Reply-To: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:07:05 +0100 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Hi esteemed co-chair, folks, Speaking from an ENUM perspective, I trust that the EDNS0-bis draft can hit the IESG in this timeframe (i.e. a month's time from now). We were going to put in a specific requirement into ENUM for EDNS0 support, but withdrew this as a general dnsext document was coming. I for one would be happy to avoid having to add an ENUM-specific doc. As a datum, we have NAPTR-reading client programs that use EDNS0 by default and have not heard of widespread problems -- lord knows some of the .tel domains have large RRsets, and that is also true for some of the ENUM domains I've seen. It sure is time to make this mandatory. all the best, Lawrence On 5 Jul 2010, at 19:06, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter > for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. Two of the > responses asked for us to move the timelines; I have resisted those > calls, but I wonder whether others think more aggressive timelines to > be reasonable. > > I attach it again here for your convenience. I have not yet made the > editorial changes suggested by one eagle-eyed reviewer (off list). > > This topic will take a considerable chunk of the time we have > scheduled in Maastricht. The charter represents our commitments to > the rest of the IETF. > > If you have opinions on it, it would be nice to hear them. We expect > to discuss this in Maastricht and then send it along to our AD, > barring any changes. > > Best, > > Andrew > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. > From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 5 21:06:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4103A6851; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:06:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.299 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RhYsCe2vgYkJ; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24C73A6818; Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVzKm-0009oo-0l for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 04:00:36 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OVzKj-0009oY-4v for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 04:00:33 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so8140213iwn.11 for ; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:00:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to:references :subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; bh=PAYHAkW5yCJlzyYCUj8ugb/RqUSMQU4/vzijNGSBIY0=; b=UzXQvI5DfbEd3D571C3RT63+PnIVBwJUKoo9bkZiKWV45A0+s1KEQkXDLqVSSOOMGF dkB8EQohfEs88qmOxkOI/Yx1ab7WntokQHE4UgZM6tERJqqdd0qtZZciL3mPmwyjV3wR V0xChajphtyIB07zp+Nwym8dAv6j2TSJGy6dM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority :x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=lORcDa2zYtodl0WHmXnuRDpxeKL/CtCAZKy6V0Id9A4TNnLTzmkiltdJeoONuNVJvN 9R+wfhcaKSbTN301wrU6tey1IqZshjbldRPTsWyYCd8mh9Wls5FlWtAAxlB/1Re0uVDO bB2SNoqe1KBOyMEaEoxIRzIevF66haWg7hGJg= Received: by 10.231.13.199 with SMTP id d7mr4408688iba.167.1278388832535; Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LENOVO47E041CF ([218.241.111.35]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h8sm21483235ibk.9.2010.07.05.21.00.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4EC69CD0028143EB8243DA41E63AFCE0@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Health" To: "Andrew Sullivan" , References: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> Subject: Re: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:00:35 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkFuZHJldyBTdWxsaXZhbiIg PGFqc0BzaGlua3Vyby5jb20+DQpUbzogPG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTZW50 OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBKdWx5IDA2LCAyMDEwIDI6MTEgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFtkbnNleHRdIHhOQU1F IFJDT0RFIGNsYXJpZmljYXRpb24gYWRvcHRpb24/DQoNCg0KPiBEZWFyIGNvbGxlYWd1ZXMsDQo+ IA0KPiBXZSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIGEgcmVxdWVzdCB0aGF0IHRoZSBXRyBhZG9wdA0KPiBkcmFm dC1lYXN0bGFrZS1kbnNleHQteG5hbWVyY29kZS0wMi50eHQgYW5kIG1ha2Ugc29tZSBkZWNpc2lv bnMgYWJvdXQNCj4gaXQuDQo+IA0KPiBXZSBhc2sgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIHRvIGV4cHJlc3MgdGhl aXIgc3VwcG9ydCANCg0KKzENCg== From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 03:45:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10EC3A686A; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 03:45:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.364 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.364 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HELO_MISMATCH_NL=1.448, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zM4vFcAMb+Cc; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 03:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C993A3A684A; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 03:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OW5Yl-0007vq-BI for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:39:27 +0000 Received: from [94.198.152.69] (helo=ede1-kamx.sidn.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OW5Yh-0007vQ-F3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:39:24 +0000 Received: from KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id o66AdKbC005015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL); Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:39:20 +0200 Received: from [192.168.129.3] (192.168.129.3) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.694.0; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:39:21 +0200 Message-ID: <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:39:20 +0200 From: "Marco Davids (SIDN)" Organization: SIDN User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100423 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-05 20:22, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > We received a request to adopt draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 as a WG item. > > Some have suggested that such an adoption is not consistent with our > existing charter. Would it be possible to elaborate a little on that? Can you perhaps point me to those opinions? I'd like to know what the arguments where. > The chairs take no position at the moment on the > correctness of that assertion, but note that the draft charter > previously circulated contains language that would explicitly put this > work under the (new) charter. Is the URL below the new charter? http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/charter/ In that case I can only agree with the above that the work is on-charter. Furthermore I'd like to express my provisional support for it as well as my willingness to participate in reviewing it to the best of my abilities. > We ask WG participants who want this work adopted to express their > support of the work, their view that it is on-charter, and their > willingness to review the work. The usual conventions requiring five > such reviewers apply. Regards, -- Marco SIDN From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 04:34:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC413A68FC; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 04:34:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1MDnZafu4Cmb; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 04:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619283A6895; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 04:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OW6Lh-000Fe7-5E for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:30:01 +0000 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OW6Lb-000Fbn-MM for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:29:55 +0000 Received: from WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov [129.6.18.96]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o66BTjxJ004469 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:29:45 -0400 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov ([129.6.18.96]) with mapi; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:29:45 -0400 From: "Rose, Scott W." To: IETF DNSEXT WG Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:29:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? Thread-Topic: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? Thread-Index: Acsc/nyFQsQoibHDTA603gtJlOpBMA== Message-ID: References: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> In-Reply-To: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scott.rose@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I support the adoption of this doc. I think it is necessary for the advancement of dname-bis. Scott On Jul 5, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > We have received a request that the WG adopt > draft-eastlake-dnsext-xnamercode-02.txt and make some decisions about > it. > > We ask participants to express their support or non-support of > adoption of the document. The usual conventions apply: five > participants must express their support, their view that the document > is on-charter, and their willingness to review. > > We will have some time to discuss the document and next steps when in > Maastricht. > > Best regards, > > A > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. > =================================== Scott Rose NIST scottr@nist.gov +1 301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1 571-249-3671 http://www.dnsops.gov/ =================================== From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 08:43:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04F03A65A6; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.814 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.814 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JutnIOcEwkpz; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C5F3A63C9; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWACv-00027a-5b for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:37:13 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWACs-00026P-Np for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:37:10 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (external.shinkuro.com [66.92.164.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D9371ECB408 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:37:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:37:07 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 12:39:20PM +0200, Marco Davids (SIDN) wrote: > > We received a request to adopt draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 as a WG item. > > > > Some have suggested that such an adoption is not consistent with our > > existing charter. > > Would it be possible to elaborate a little on that? Can you perhaps > point me to those opinions? I'd like to know what the arguments where. The current charter says this: The WG will limit itself to review of proposals for new extensions and clarification to the DNS protocol, including DNSSEC. Adoption of new work targeted for standards track will require changes to this charter. The working group can nevertheless undertake work in following subjects without a charter change: DNSSEC and TSIG/TKEY algorithm maintenance Hardening DNS protocol and providing guidance to implementors Advancing existing Proposed Standard RFCs to Draft/Full Standard Obsoleting RFCs. Maintaining a Wiki containing a guide to DNS protocol RFC's. Improving DNS zone synchronization mechanisms Examining transport protocols, possibly adding new ones. It is by no means obvious that dnscurve falls under any of those explicit exceptions (and someone -- no I won't say who -- has argued to me that it does not). > Is the URL below the new charter? > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dnsext/charter/ No, that's the current one. The same day I posted the message you responded to, I also posted another copy of the draft charter. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 09:15:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE653A6A56; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:15:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.994 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.994 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9cGd6EGbwdF0; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4C63A6A40; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAj9-0007et-Ti for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:10:31 +0000 Received: from [209.85.210.52] (helo=mail-pz0-f52.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWAj6-0007dP-Pw for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:10:29 +0000 Received: by pzk27 with SMTP id 27so908092pzk.11 for ; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:10:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=exwiZ7zF+mQ9XwRLLtgE1ibe5aW2cTO/UlYZu5NsRoU=; b=SZ6fn/I43jOn1dWAVbTYgrxP5YJ/wUwmqA94fHuAMb8YGDdZ4KIDUaZxHEVfzI5ahd 3wCAoyvh5Htff1IVpAln7t6ncEj6s8rP3Ci2TXq8hgICKT+oAJpI8wkKEWCopJcBwK09 /4mThF5JdKiAAYGl4JF6hk+1lwMlElMIdQ6yA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=TK8Uks7v6AeGVgBNoKxjLXBb2mfhDx6UFsPjGQrll+7SPAGjMdH7mIclzCCkPhH708 X5mWeYG1xdj4lToEdMq7tCQcgapGkEFup1rnH9rR3cga9OK6XiesBf3o2ZLCTsaQBuzu lY834684CDotrkSU7OgZhJgheKV/cqr2NRbn4= Received: by 10.114.24.15 with SMTP id 15mr5530085wax.32.1278432627871; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fatty.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (c-67-164-126-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.164.126.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d39sm84333297wam.4.2010.07.06.09.10.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Nicholas Weaver In-Reply-To: <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:10:25 -0700 Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 12:39:20PM +0200, Marco Davids (SIDN) wrote: >>> We received a request to adopt draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 as a WG = item. =20 >>>=20 >>> Some have suggested that such an adoption is not consistent with our >>> existing charter. >>=20 >> Would it be possible to elaborate a little on that? Can you perhaps >> point me to those opinions? I'd like to know what the arguments = where. >=20 > The current charter says this: >=20 > The WG will limit itself to review of proposals for new extensions > and clarification to the DNS protocol, including DNSSEC. Adoption of > new work targeted for standards track will require changes to this > charter. >=20 > The working group can nevertheless undertake work in following > subjects without a charter change: > DNSSEC and TSIG/TKEY algorithm maintenance > Hardening DNS protocol and providing guidance to implementors > Advancing existing Proposed Standard RFCs to Draft/Full = Standard > Obsoleting RFCs. > Maintaining a Wiki containing a guide to DNS protocol RFC's. > Improving DNS zone synchronization mechanisms > Examining transport protocols, possibly adding new ones. >=20 > It is by no means obvious that dnscurve falls under any of those > explicit exceptions (and someone -- no I won't say who -- has argued > to me that it does not). =20 How is dnscurve not simply an encrypted transport protocol for DNS? dnscurve to me seems effectively useless [1], but it certainly seems in = scope to me. [1] EG, the security considerations section is woefully deficient, and = any real examination of this section demonstrates why dnscurve is = effectively useless. Additionally, because the dnscurve packets = themselves aren't following the DNS protocol, it can't reliably run over = UDP port 53 because there is a lot of stuff out there which blocks = non-DNS over DNS. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 09:34:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307DD3A698C; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:34:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z5g3TFH97bEN; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A7D3A690F; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWB2o-000Ans-JN for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:30:50 +0000 Received: from [213.248.199.24] (helo=mx4.nominet.org.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWB2l-000AnG-Hp for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:30:47 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=JquhVjDq8i01eetUxh4xOl3XAKLBh5fsQqPonWmdBIXzDy5uefiWFXIh 4TQMBjQ17u1MJYts9tru/1EHOXIcF8NMIyrbNIbkDpoXX08wN43FmbovS s6FhzBafVrD9Ara; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1278433847; x=1309969847; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[dnsext]=20Adoption=20of=20draft-dempsk y-dnscurve-01|Date:=20Tue,=206=20Jul=202010=2016:30:44=20 +0000|Message-ID:=20|To:=20Nicholas=20Weaver=20|CC:=20Andrew=20Sullivan=20,=20"namedroppers@ops.ietf.org"=0D=0A=09|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20<866ac97f-1c68-4d5d-a94a-6aafd5d1e689> |In-Reply-To:=20<84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@ics i.berkeley.edu>|References:=20<20100705182225.GH49823@shi nkuro.com>=20<4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl>=0D=0A=20<20100706 153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com>=0D=0A=20<84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA- B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu>; bh=ULb3jojeZqjSQL4uCd1EijVKnpk5d98u6SZp8LmmemE=; b=lhL8+jpRimAPLuKHAXoEwa9vMkipQFMuFbQC+rgTRb5oQLIDQUGMDcGL oqLzPIug1jYVgVXgBFISIWbJeElo4pCq5r8RWJ+MprL0RIE7uolLbEEUL H7x/9GhwEoBLWmp; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,547,1272841200"; d="scan'208";a="19816399" Received: from wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.145]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 06 Jul 2010 17:30:45 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f]) by wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4%20]) with mapi; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:30:45 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Nicholas Weaver CC: Andrew Sullivan , "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Thread-Topic: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Thread-Index: AQHLHG/3KU+LSZmueUODJFsFNV7ZSJKjpVcAgABTM4CAAAlOgIAABa0A Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:30:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <866ac97f-1c68-4d5d-a94a-6aafd5d1e689> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > How is dnscurve not simply an encrypted transport protocol for DNS? Because it is not at layer 4 ?=20 That said, neither would DNS over DTLS, should anyone ever propose that. Ray From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jul 6 12:57:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA903A6807 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:57:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <4BpXsXIchQk7> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -00%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4BpXsXIchQk7 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 82.200.186.29.metro.online.kz (82.200.186.29.metro.online.kz [82.200.186.29]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 42C9A3A6899 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -00% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100706195756.42C9A3A6899@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:57:55 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 21:18:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363AB3A6999; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:18:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.994 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.994 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_BACKHAIR_54=1, J_BACKHAIR_55=1, J_BACKHAIR_56=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vOWQr99o814M; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E593A6970; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWLyd-000DVa-3T for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 04:11:15 +0000 Received: from [209.85.216.173] (helo=mail-qy0-f173.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWLya-000DVD-2V for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 04:11:12 +0000 Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so2747805qyk.11 for ; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:11:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=naZILP3sbWK3aKIFEs4yJi9eX8Adljw81OanEZ+41BA=; b=oct6vTybj+pIVUzgV/ZgtvltepCQUAWRjxvp93vR05D++PEJdZz1A3DOs9q1TXSyvr 2Pk4QjSacas3bKXA6n9h/lkRhiMxAC/aZ9SbaltKSuvWssbAIahazIqEsvT+wXsxS7YD tiyh58P66WtJwO1rPaLU3cigztyQ0EsDveQ8Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=eySshmPT4X7jAF3hiYNpEnydG/zQ8qm84SGQJcEHxHl/6gZH0LUjIXh3UYO3m9fgNA t55WP0SMNZYsdy9eZuu/wys7MHHFXV4uVXbb/ElrQuOnrqj9e7z+irQAUcdpyhTeN25t stIYoK6PPMoLpGHe08S2dymqnC4JM61d/Z9SU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.103.20 with SMTP id i20mr3131786qao.263.1278475871063; Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.185.206 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 21:11:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:11:10 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 From: Brandon Black To: Nicholas Weaver Cc: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > How is dnscurve not simply an encrypted transport protocol for DNS? Well regardless of whether it's technically an encrypted transport or not, it seems within the scope of dnsext under the item "Hardening DNS protocol". > dnscurve to me seems effectively useless [1], but it certainly seems in scope to me. > [1] EG, the security considerations section is woefully deficient, and any real examination of this section demonstrates why dnscurve is effectively useless. Are you referring to objections to the newness of the crypto, or the fact that it only protects the cache<->auth channel (as opposed to securing cache<->cache and cache<->client, or securing against untrusted caches)? They're all valid discussions to have. Assuming nobody greatly objects to the crypto part, I think extending dnscurve out to the cache<->cache and cache<->client channels is really just a key distribution/rollover problem. I think that could be fixed. cache<->auth currently uses public keys encoded in nameserver names, but there's no reason that couldn't be extended to use some sort of specific key RR as well, and then we don't necessarily have to use those ugly long nameserver names. Protecting against untrusted caches seems to be completely outside the scope of what dnscurve is trying to do though. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 6 22:52:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F63A3A67AC; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:52:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.814 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.814 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pgObrvTEXw5I; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D433A659B; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWNTU-000O5V-Cp for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 05:47:12 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWNTR-000O4j-VL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 05:47:10 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (72-255-30-155.client.stsn.net [72.255.30.155]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 162071ECB408 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 05:47:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 01:47:06 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 11:11:10PM -0500, Brandon Black wrote: > Well regardless of whether it's technically an encrypted transport or > not, it seems within the scope of dnsext under the item "Hardening DNS > protocol". Just so this thread doesn't turn into a debate about what the charter says (since we have a thread for that), I want to apologise for introducing this distraction and try to phrase things more evenly: If you support adopting the document _and_ are willing to review it, please say so. If you think it is on-charter under our current charter, please say so. Olafur and I will regard this say-so as entailing that you think it will be on-charter even if the new charter is adopted, because nothing in the proposed charter excludes anything covered by the old charter. If you think our view is wrong, please note it, and then take discussion of the charter problem to the charter thread. If you think it will be on-charter assuming the new charter will be adopted _but not_ under the existing charter, we also would like to know that. Thanks, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jul 6 23:24:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43EBB3A67CC for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:24:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <18OCF-KWpteR> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -66%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -19.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18OCF-KWpteR for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from broadband-109-173-40-26.nationalcablenetworks.ru (broadband-109-173-40-26.nationalcablenetworks.ru [109.173.40.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A22ED3A6767 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:24:45 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -66% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100707062445.A22ED3A6767@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:24:45 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 01:24:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE0C3A67D3; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 01:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2cidyr7d+Bdo; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 01:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8743A659C; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 01:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWPq9-000Esk-U6 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:18:45 +0000 Received: from [193.1.169.34] (helo=dakota.ucd.ie) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWPq6-000EsB-NP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:18:42 +0000 Received: from conversion-daemon.dakota.ucd.ie by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) id <0L5600G01HLBVD00@dakota.ucd.ie> (original mail from Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie) for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:18:39 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.0.1.177] (bark.no8.be [83.141.81.52]) by dakota.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.05 (built Apr 28 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0L56001EAHR2D900@dakota.ucd.ie>; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:18:39 +0100 (IST) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:18:38 +0100 From: Niall O'Reilly Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion In-reply-to: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <4C34385E.3000207@ucd.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-IE.utf8; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100423 Thunderbird/3.0.4 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 05/07/10 19:06, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter > for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. FWIW, here is a little more ... > Two of the > responses asked for us to move the timelines; I have resisted those > calls, but I wonder whether others think more aggressive timelines to > be reasonable. Actual delivery of results is more significant than the targets expressed in the timelines. Given the necessary enthusiasm, early delivery of results can be achieved whether or not the timelines are adjusted. Without such enthusiasm, tweaking the programme isn't going to accelerate progress. I'm for leaving them as they are. > I attach it again here for your convenience. I have not yet made the > editorial changes suggested by one eagle-eyed reviewer (off list). > > This topic will take a considerable chunk of the time we have > scheduled in Maastricht. The charter represents our commitments to > the rest of the IETF. > > If you have opinions on it, it would be nice to hear them. We expect > to discuss this in Maastricht and then send it along to our AD, > barring any changes. The two paragraphs which follow the bullet-point "Mechanisms to alias DNS trees or parts thereof" seem to me to be more detailed than is appropriate in a charter. None of the other items in the list is complemented by motivational material. Including some for this one gives an imbalanced "look". €0,02 /Niall From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 03:59:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008B13A65A5; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 03:59:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3rQmHThpGWG0; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 03:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BEF3A67AB; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 03:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSFc-0008A6-DJ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:53:12 +0000 Received: from [89.16.176.221] (helo=mail.avalus.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSFZ-00088m-5R for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:53:09 +0000 Received: from [10.114.120.148] (cpc2-livi1-0-0-cust276.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com [82.41.185.21]) by mail.avalus.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 30090C56927; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:53:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:53:06 +0100 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org cc: Alex Bligh Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Message-ID: <14432ABE4E5B6B3CFB3E5B6B@dhcp-111.xcalibre.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --On 5 July 2010 14:06:41 -0400 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter > for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. +1 for new charter -- Alex Bligh From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 04:01:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702D73A67AB; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:01:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id voThgQob44eo; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F2F3A65A5; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSJQ-0008jL-2Y for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:57:08 +0000 Received: from [89.16.176.221] (helo=mail.avalus.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSJN-0008io-7q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:57:05 +0000 Received: from [10.114.120.148] (cpc2-livi1-0-0-cust276.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com [82.41.185.21]) by mail.avalus.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86735C56927; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:57:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:57:01 +0100 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org cc: Alex Bligh Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --On 7 July 2010 01:47:06 -0400 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > If you think it will be on-charter assuming the new charter will be > adopted _but not_ under the existing charter, we also would like to > know that. I think is is probably not in scope under the existing charter; given this was meant to be a "put w/g to sleep charter", I had read the line re transports as support for SCTP, rather than an entirely new cryptographic framework. However, I think it should be in scope under the new charter (i.e. I think it should be a subject for discussion, not that I necessarily think it is a good idea). -- Alex Bligh From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 04:21:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F7E3A67CC; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:21:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.186 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fOc4aeG2BT5m; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13A43A67F1; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWScn-000CEw-Ka for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:17:09 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:0:2::2b] (helo=mx.pao1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSck-000CDz-De for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:17:06 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFA14C941A for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:17:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id B73E9E6023; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:17:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:17:03 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Message-ID: <20100707111703.GA16930@farside.isc.org> References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> <4C34385E.3000207@ucd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C34385E.3000207@ucd.ie> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Chairs, colleagues, I'm in general support of the new charter (with all due sympathy to those who hoped we'd be able to leave the WG peacefully asleep). On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 09:18:38AM +0100, Niall O'Reilly wrote: > On 05/07/10 19:06, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >Two of the > >responses asked for us to move the timelines; I have resisted those > >calls, but I wonder whether others think more aggressive timelines to > >be reasonable. > > Actual delivery of results is more significant than the > targets expressed in the timelines. Given the necessary > enthusiasm, early delivery of results can be achieved > whether or not the timelines are adjusted. Without such > enthusiasm, tweaking the programme isn't going to accelerate > progress. I'm for leaving them as they are. +1 on this too. For all the historic and management reasons already brought up in the discussion previously, setting conservative timelines and then beating them is preferable to setting aggressive ones and failing to meet them. I'm especially concerned about the effect it will have if we don't include the "Guess this is more complex than we thought" factor, because (as previously noted, more than once) tinkering with old, widely deployed protocols probably can't be done without subtle (and time-consuming) complications. Suzanne From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 04:28:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003C63A67B3; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:28:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zgS7FBibI0Wg; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3953A659C; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSjq-000DLZ-PW for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:24:26 +0000 Received: from [2001:df0:8:6::72] (helo=send12.jprs.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSjn-000DL0-PZ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:24:24 +0000 Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (sendsms12.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.114]) by send12.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o67BOLXB025930 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 20:24:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id DE4E93346 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 20:24:21 +0900 (JST) X-AuditID: ca0b1172-0000000b00000914-15-4c3463e5175a Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:24:21 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20100707.202421.163234125.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: My comments for draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt: 1. The draft does not explain CNAME+BNAME problem. The same comments are already discussed in this list. RFC 2181 section 10.1 "CNAME resource records" states "+ one or more records exist, none being CNAME records,". But section 4.1 step 3.a generates answers which contain CNAME RR and BNAME RR for the same owner name. I think you should write some text which updates/violates RFC 2181 and 1034. Or introduce some singaling mechanisim described by Paul Vixie. <91313.1274282859@nsa.vix.com> http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2010/msg01321.html # But if we introduce DNAME_OK bit, DNAME+CNAME approach is implementable. 2. examples needed. Please see draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-19 section 2.2. I want to see zone file example in appendix section. 3. about DNSSEC+BNAME I considered DNSSEC+BNAME without new DNSSEC algorithm numbers. It's just an idea. (a) BNAME + online signing approach solves BNAME DNSSEC problem. Synthesized CNAME's RRSIG is easy to generate. Synthesized owner name value region is clear, NSEC or NSEC3 RRs can be calculated. BNAME RR is used by some TLDs and they will use their own DNS servers, the performance problem is solved by new software and new hardware (and it does not affect root servers). (b) Static zone file case without NEW DNSSEC algorithm. Assue the BNAME zone does not contain another RRs (BNAME only). Assume BNAME_OK flag in query (like DNSSEC_OK bit). Assume NSEC3 + Optout. Prepare two zones and they share same DNSKEY. one is BNAME OK zone. (BNAME_ZONE) the other is ZONE APEX + NSEC3 outout zone. (Synthesized_ZONE) If the server receives queries with BNAME_OK, the server answers from BNAME_ZONE. If the server receives queries without BNAME_OK, the server answers synthesized CNAME with DNSSEC RRs from Synthesized_ZONE. Without BNAME_OK bit, the synthesized CNAME cannot be verified. The problem is that this method cannot be used with NSEC zone. 4. Why do you consider RSASHA256/RSASHA512 instead of RSASHA1 ? Regards, -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 04:31:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504D33A67B3; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VO4lwp1zjZrR; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE6C3A67CF; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 04:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSn6-000Dnd-Vo for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:27:49 +0000 Received: from [89.16.176.221] (helo=mail.avalus.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWSn4-000DnA-Df for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:27:46 +0000 Received: from [10.114.120.148] (cpc2-livi1-0-0-cust276.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com [82.41.185.21]) by mail.avalus.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2957C56929; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:27:44 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:27:43 +0100 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Niall O'Reilly , Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, Alex Bligh Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Message-ID: <1B72EB72E838684CC8A6DF98@dhcp-111.xcalibre.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4C34385E.3000207@ucd.ie> References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> <4C34385E.3000207@ucd.ie> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --On 7 July 2010 09:18:38 +0100 Niall O'Reilly wrote: > Actual delivery of results is more significant than the > targets expressed in the timelines. Given the necessary > enthusiasm, early delivery of results can be achieved > whether or not the timelines are adjusted. Without such > enthusiasm, tweaking the programme isn't going to accelerate > progress. I'm for leaving them as they are. +1. Experience suggests we do not always meet even timelines which we initially consider not ambitious. -- Alex Bligh From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 07:06:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0AF3A67CF; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:06:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8eNq6Yl8Ns25; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376CD3A67B6; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 07:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWVBf-0009r0-C0 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:01:19 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWVBc-0009qQ-Sg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:01:16 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9059EA1037 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:01:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:57:01 +0100." References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:01:16 +0000 Message-ID: <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > --On 7 July 2010 01:47:06 -0400 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > > If you think it will be on-charter assuming ... > Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:57:01 +0100 > From: Alex Bligh > > I think is is probably not in scope under the existing charter; ... is "on charter" the same as "architecturally consistent"? when IETF undertook "Secure DNS" we made some choices. channel security turned out to be necessary and sufficient for the last mile (thus TSIG) but not sufficient for server-to- server (thus DNSSEC). is this WG now going to formally adopt server-to-server channel security as a necessary part of "hardening the DNS" and if so are we open to other methods besides just dnscurve? i have suppressed several of my own designs over the last 15 years because they were "off mission" even though "on charter". i'm mystified by why we're deciding the "on charter" question, and if this is really a referendum on our new proposed charter, then i'd like to revisit the new proposed charter to add logic to the effect of "finish Secure DNS as currently understood, and don't confuse implementors and operators by also formally adopting completely different approaches and/or changing the mission statement to include things like server-to-server channel encryption." before you answer, consider the high likelihood of a dozen or more "hardening" related proposals, all clamouring for formal adoption, none fitting the model we thought we had for Secure DNS. i'm basically not interested in an "on charter?" question if we're so blatently ignoring the "on mission?" question. if IETF wants "Secure DNS" we're going to have to give the world a solid spec and stop changing our minds about how we intend to accomplish it. we're now in the "build a market of products and services" phase, and the message we'd be sending by reopening the basic requirements question would not help that. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 08:30:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F8E3A6842; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:30:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.607 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.607 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bPiwqz3aYNk; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983F33A6864; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWWTy-000LVL-UQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:24:18 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWWTv-000LUg-Lj for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:24:15 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (external.shinkuro.com [66.92.164.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7057E1ECB408 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:24:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:24:13 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100707152412.GD58203@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 02:01:16PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > is "on charter" the same as "architecturally consistent"? One would like to hope so. > is this WG now going to formally adopt server-to-server channel security as a > necessary part of "hardening the DNS" and if so are we open to other methods > besides just dnscurve? Among other things, DNSCurve could be used as a tool for addressing the item in the proposed new charter, "Mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0)". That proposed item is a significant difference with our existing charter. If the new charter were adopted and there were other techniques proposed that matched that work item, they would also be on charter, and subject to the usual adoption conventions. I think you're right to ask whether, under the existing WG charter, DNSCurve would fall under the "hardening the DNS" rubric. One could certainly make an argument it wouldn't: the point of that entry was clearly to do non-DNSSECy things to improve protocol resilience, such as the port randomization work we did some time ago. > i'm mystified by why we're deciding the "on charter" question The question of whether a given draft can be adopted is answered with three criteria: whether it is on-charter (this is just a general IETF constraint about whether a WG works on a given item), whether there is interest in the draft (which this WG has generally measured by the "five reviewers" convention), and whether there is not significant strong opinion against adopting a work item. The first and last of these are usually implicit in the questions we ask about adoption, but in this case we happen to be revising the charter at the same time as considering the work item, so I thought it was important to make this on-charter question more explicit. If we were trying to be more orderly, I suppose the right thing to do would be to adopt a new charter before making these decisions, but I think that's sort of artificial (since surely one wants to write a charter with an eye to work one is planning actually to do). > really a referendum on our new proposed charter, then i'd like to revisit the > new proposed charter As I asked in a previous message, if you want to change the proposed charter please take that discussion to that thread. I appreciate that these topics are interrelated (obviously, or I wouldn't have pointed it out), but I'd like to keep the discussion focussed as much as possible. > we thought we had for Secure DNS. i'm basically not interested in an "on > charter?" question if we're so blatently ignoring the "on mission?" question. Naturally, the point of a charter is to capture the goals we are trying to achieve. I do not support empty formalism in these process matters. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 08:49:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91F23A67D3; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.157 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HELO_MISMATCH_NL=1.448, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mKIDKppd6rCh; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8AF3A67B6; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWWnq-000O2d-00 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:44:50 +0000 Received: from [94.198.152.69] (helo=ede1-kamx.sidn.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWWnn-000O2I-1S for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:44:47 +0000 Received: from KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local ([192.168.2.41]) by ede1-kamx.sidn.nl with ESMTP id o67Fiiaw012625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=CAFAIL) for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:44:44 +0200 Received: from [192.168.129.3] (192.168.129.3) by KAHUBCAS1.SIDN.local (192.168.2.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.694.0; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:44:44 +0200 Message-ID: <4C34A0EC.20305@sidn.nl> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:44:44 +0200 From: "Marco Davids (SIDN)" Organization: SIDN User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100527 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-07 16:01, Paul Vixie wrote: > is "on charter" the same as "architecturally consistent"? How inconistent would the DNS architecture become? DNSSEC and DNSCurve don't have to be mutual exclusive in my opinion. They could in fact happily co-exist. DNScurve could give me what Rod Beckstrom thinks DNSSEC already gives us today: privacy by encryption. I'd like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=733f7xK5yF4 -- Marco From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 09:48:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0893A67EA; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:48:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h-saWL9Q3Z98; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3903A63EC; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWXij-0005fs-9E for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:43:37 +0000 Received: from [89.16.176.221] (helo=mail.avalus.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWXig-0005fT-44 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:43:34 +0000 Received: from [10.114.120.148] (cpc2-livi1-0-0-cust276.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com [82.41.185.21]) by mail.avalus.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F8D8C56927; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:43:32 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:43:31 +0100 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Paul Vixie , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org cc: Alex Bligh Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <00A55D8156F6F63143321360@dhcp-111.xcalibre.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --On 7 July 2010 14:01:16 +0000 Paul Vixie wrote: >> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:57:01 +0100 >> From: Alex Bligh >> >> I think is is probably not in scope under the existing charter; ... > > is "on charter" the same as "architecturally consistent"? when IETF > undertook "Secure DNS" we made some choices. channel security turned out > to be necessary and sufficient for the last mile (thus TSIG) but not > sufficient for server-to- server (thus DNSSEC). > > is this WG now going to formally adopt server-to-server channel security > as a necessary part of "hardening the DNS" and if so are we open to other > methods besides just dnscurve? i have suppressed several of my own > designs over the last 15 years because they were "off mission" even > though "on charter". Well, I think it is possible to claim DNSCURVE falls within "* Mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0)" I agree with you that it is an undesirable and significant architecture change, i.e. does more than the above, but both those points seem to be open for debate. I don't see the value in excluding even consideration of DNSCURVE because it's "outside our mandate". Surely better to discuss it, and (if appropriate) argue for its rejection on the basis you set out. > before you answer, consider the high likelihood of a dozen or more > "hardening" related proposals, all clamouring for formal adoption, none > fitting the model we thought we had for Secure DNS. You seem to be worried about a DoS attack. If rejection is desirable, can't we reject them at the stage they ask for formal adoption, rather than reject them by setting the charter so narrow they can't get in? After all, there is nothing to prevent people clamouring for adoption even if proposals are out of charter, and there is nothing to prevent people arguing for adoption of ridiculous proposals that are in charter. I may have missed your point, but I'm not sure how this helps. -- Alex Bligh From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 09:58:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110B53A6864; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:58:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fxjl1xV3d4Ma; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AF03A6863; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWXu5-0007Ny-DV for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:55:21 +0000 Received: from [2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe11:220a] (helo=vacation.karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWXu2-00076S-Jd for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:55:18 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o67GrhV7007515 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:53:43 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id o67Grh02007514 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:53:43 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:53:38 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100707165338.GD5157@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > > --On 7 July 2010 01:47:06 -0400 Andrew Sullivan wrote: The WG has two choices: ) adopt the draft for discussion as a WG item (and the new charter looks like this is ok) or ) send a note to the IESG indicating that this is outside the WG charter and the IESG should _not_ send it to the WG for consideration when the author(s) submit this as an indivdual submission. Given the two choices, and based on the fact that the folks on the ML encouraged the authors to write the draft and bring the work to the IETF, I beleive that we are beholden to take this draft on. --bill From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 11:00:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C513A68E8; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:00:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.427 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.427 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 056KPkgMr-Fu; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58743A67E5; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWYr2-000FjT-O2 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:56:18 +0000 Received: from [209.85.212.52] (helo=mail-vw0-f52.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWYqz-000Fii-CU for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:56:13 +0000 Received: by vws11 with SMTP id 11so7247093vws.11 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:56:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.62.5 with SMTP id v5mr3573924vch.242.1278525371859; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.171.129 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 10:56:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 10:56:11 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Colm_MacC=E1rthaigh?= To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > We ask WG participants who want this work adopted to express their > support of the work, their view that it is on-charter, and their > willingness to review the work. =A0The usual conventions requiring five > such reviewers apply. I think it would be great to see the work adopted, and would be willing to review the work. --=20 Colm From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 12:03:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03A13A689C; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:03:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9qPuSPAfGHjj; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BD33A6915; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWZoA-000PXm-VP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:57:22 +0000 Received: from [89.16.176.221] (helo=mail.avalus.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWZo7-000PXF-UT for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:57:20 +0000 Received: from [10.114.120.148] (unknown [83.105.105.210]) by mail.avalus.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3CE5AC5691D; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:57:17 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:57:16 +0100 From: Alex Bligh Reply-To: Alex Bligh To: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org cc: Alex Bligh Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --On 5 July 2010 14:22:25 -0400 Andrew Sullivan wrote: > We ask WG participants who want this work adopted to express their > support of the work, I didn't answer this bit. I think there is lots of good stuff in the draft (e.g. the ECC implementation), but I don't actually see what the architecture as a whole would buy us that would outweigh the upheaval. Does adoption mean one thinks its worthwhile reviewing as a consistent whole? Or that one thinks it might have good bits in worth using? -- Alex Bligh From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 12:03:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738D73A684C; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:03:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A89trA75LNi1; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEF63A693F; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWZo5-000PWE-AH for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:57:17 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWZo2-000PVe-Ef for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:57:14 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EDA3A1037 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 18:57:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:43:31 +0100." <00A55D8156F6F63143321360@dhcp-111.xcalibre.co.uk> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> <00A55D8156F6F63143321360@dhcp-111.xcalibre.co.uk> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:57:14 +0000 Message-ID: <19442.1278529034@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:43:31 +0100 > From: Alex Bligh > > > before you answer, consider the high likelihood of a dozen or more > > "hardening" related proposals, all clamouring for formal adoption, none > > fitting the model we thought we had for Secure DNS. > > You seem to be worried about a DoS attack. ... no. i'm remembering when paul borman made a completely reasonable suggestion about the ipv6 on-wire protocol, that being to change it to put the dstip6 first in order to shave some byte times off of the latency of cut-through forwarding devices. the WG agreed that this would have been a good idea a year earlier, but also that tinkering with ip6 forever would delay market adoption. the dnscurve proponents explicitly say that they don't need DNSSEC and that crypto-authenticity in the server-to-server side is enough for them. it ought to be within this WG's charter to say "Secure DNS is important, and you can either like it or not, but we're not going to admit alternatives during the market adoption phase." for some reason it is not (in our power) and i'm mystified and disturbed by this. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 12:10:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77BF43A68C7; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.003 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.603, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pH1qg30WwpMz; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761293A684C; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWZxl-0001Af-OU for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:07:17 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWZxj-00019y-BY for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:07:15 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (external.shinkuro.com [66.92.164.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 967311ECB408 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:07:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:07:12 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100707190711.GF59634@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 07:57:16PM +0100, Alex Bligh wrote: > upheaval. Does adoption mean one thinks its worthwhile reviewing as > a consistent whole? Or that one thinks it might have good bits in > worth using? Speaking only for myself and with no hat, it seems to me that if you think something contains a useful idea but that it is otherwise a bad idea, you'd be better off to lift that single idea out, write it up as a separate I-D, and put a prominent acknowledgement in the resulting I-D. It is easier to write a new document than to try to pare out bad ideas from a longer document, in my experience. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 12:54:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382373A6937; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:54:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.832 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.832 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.162, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QumZVnM1VmuI; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185853A687D; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWadv-0007bU-P8 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:50:51 +0000 Received: from [207.182.41.81] (helo=hoffman.proper.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWads-0007az-S8 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:50:49 +0000 Received: from [10.20.30.158] (75-101-30-90.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net [75.101.30.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o67Jokw7008864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20100707190711.GF59634@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <20100707190711.GF59634@shinkuro.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:50:45 -0700 To: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 3:07 PM -0400 7/7/10, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 07:57:16PM +0100, Alex Bligh wrote: >> upheaval. Does adoption mean one thinks its worthwhile reviewing as >> a consistent whole? Or that one thinks it might have good bits in >> worth using? > >Speaking only for myself and with no hat, it seems to me that if you >think something contains a useful idea but that it is otherwise a bad >idea, you'd be better off to lift that single idea out, write it up as >a separate I-D, and put a prominent acknowledgement in the resulting >I-D. It is easier to write a new document than to try to pare out bad >ideas from a longer document, in my experience. FWIW, I have a not-fully-formed intention do this with DNScurve. The current draft of DNScurve has some really useful features that are not found anywhere else, but those are weighed down by some other misfeatures that can pared out. More importantly, what DNScurve offers is of value beyond the DNS. At its core, it is an elegant hack that allows two parties to set up very light-weight encrypted and authenticated tunnels for transport. You can transport DNS, of course, but you can also transport anything that would normally go over layer 4. More to the point of this thread: I don't think it is actually covered in the current charter, nor should it be. It is basically tunneling a completely different protocol over port 53. If DNScurve ran on a different port from normally-formatted DNS queries and responses, that would possibly be within the scope of the charter. --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 13:02:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580AD3A68F9; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:02:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.402, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nJKhYA2Z5Sja; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D8C3A6876; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWalW-0008ka-AE for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:58:42 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWalT-0008k3-LY for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:58:39 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (external.shinkuro.com [66.92.164.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FC421ECB408 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:58:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:58:37 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Message-ID: <20100707195837.GI59634@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> <00A55D8156F6F63143321360@dhcp-111.xcalibre.co.uk> <19442.1278529034@nsa.vix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <19442.1278529034@nsa.vix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 06:57:14PM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote: > during the market adoption phase." for some reason it is not (in our power) > and i'm mystified and disturbed by this. Sure it is. That's why the question is before the WG. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. 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Our customers have had successful breast enhancements, attaining increasingly larger breasts with continued usage of our Natural breast enhancement products. http://potpen.ru From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 14:33:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CACF3A67F0; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.895 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_BLUEYON=1.4, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d83UwnWFjIf6; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7213A6991; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWcAD-000KPM-Ms for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:28:17 +0000 Received: from [195.188.213.7] (helo=smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWcA9-000KOv-Ux for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:28:14 +0000 Received: from [172.23.170.146] (helo=anti-virus03-09) by smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1OWcA7-0000EE-65; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:28:11 +0100 Received: from [92.238.99.235] (helo=GeorgeLaptop) by asmtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1OWbwr-0007D9-A2; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:14:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3A085E88496F4FB58020261D1EF40959@local> From: "George Barwood" To: "Andrew Sullivan" , References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:14:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkFuZHJldyBTdWxsaXZhbiIg PGFqc0BzaGlua3Vyby5jb20+DQpUbzogPG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTZW50 OiBNb25kYXksIEp1bHkgMDUsIDIwMTAgNzoyMiBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogW2Ruc2V4dF0gQWRvcHRp b24gb2YgZHJhZnQtZGVtcHNreS1kbnNjdXJ2ZS0wMQ0KDQoNCj4gRGVhciBjb2xsZWFndWVzLA0K PiANCj4gV2UgcmVjZWl2ZWQgYSByZXF1ZXN0IHRvIGFkb3B0IGRyYWZ0LWRlbXBza3ktZG5zY3Vy dmUtMDEgYXMgYSBXRyBpdGVtLiAgDQo+IA0KPiBTb21lIGhhdmUgc3VnZ2VzdGVkIHRoYXQgc3Vj aCBhbiBhZG9wdGlvbiBpcyBub3QgY29uc2lzdGVudCB3aXRoIG91cg0KPiBleGlzdGluZyBjaGFy dGVyLiAgVGhlIGNoYWlycyB0YWtlIG5vIHBvc2l0aW9uIGF0IHRoZSBtb21lbnQgb24gdGhlDQo+ IGNvcnJlY3RuZXNzIG9mIHRoYXQgYXNzZXJ0aW9uLCBidXQgbm90ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBkcmFmdCBj aGFydGVyDQo+IHByZXZpb3VzbHkgY2lyY3VsYXRlZCBjb250YWlucyBsYW5ndWFnZSB0aGF0IHdv dWxkIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgcHV0IHRoaXMNCj4gd29yayB1bmRlciB0aGUgKG5ldykgY2hhcnRlci4N Cj4gDQo+IFdlIGFzayBXRyBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMgd2hvIHdhbnQgdGhpcyB3b3JrIGFkb3B0ZWQg dG8gZXhwcmVzcyB0aGVpcg0KPiBzdXBwb3J0IG9mIHRoZSB3b3JrLCB0aGVpciB2aWV3IHRoYXQg aXQgaXMgb24tY2hhcnRlciwgYW5kIHRoZWlyDQo+IHdpbGxpbmduZXNzIHRvIHJldmlldyB0aGUg d29yay4gIFRoZSB1c3VhbCBjb252ZW50aW9ucyByZXF1aXJpbmcgZml2ZQ0KPiBzdWNoIHJldmll d2VycyBhcHBseS4NCg0KSSBkb24ndCBzdXBwb3J0IGFkb3B0aW9uIGF0IHRoaXMgdGltZSwgcmVh b3NucyBiZWluZzoNCg0KKDEpIEkgdGhpbmsgRE5TQ3VydmUgc29sdmVzIG9ubHkgc29tZSBvZiB0 aGUgb3V0c3RhbmRpbmcgdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb2JsZW1zDQphc3NvY2lhdGVkIHdpdGggRE5TLiBJ IGhhdmUgd29ya2VkIG9uIGEgZHJhZnQgdGhhdCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgdGhlc2UgaXNzdWVzLCBhbmQg DQpjb25zaWRlciB0aGF0IHRvIGJlIGEgbW9yZSBjb21wbGV0ZSBhbmQgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJhbGx5 IGNvcnJlY3Qgc29sdXRpb24gDQooIGh0dHA6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWJh cndvb2QtZG5zZXh0LWRucy10cmFuc3BvcnQtMTggKS4NCg0KKDIpIEhvd2V2ZXIgZXZlbiBJIGRv bid0IHByb3Bvc2UgdGhlIGFkb3B0aW9uIG9mIG15IG93biBkcmFmdCBxdWl0ZSB5ZXQuDQpJdCBo YXMgbm90IHlldCBiZWVuIHNob3duIHRoYXQgdGhlIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBwcm9ibGVtcyBhcmUgc3Vm ZmljaWVudGx5IA0Kc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQsIGFuZCBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhhdCB3aXRoIHNvbWUgY2Fy ZSwgaXQgaXMgcHJhY3RpY2FsIHRvIGRlcGxveQ0KRE5TU0VDIG9uIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHRyYW5z cG9ydC4gSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHNlZSANCmRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG5zZXh0LXJmYzI2NzFiaXMt ZWRucyBjb21wbGV0ZWQgYmVmb3JlIGFkb3B0aW5nIG5ldyB0cmFuc3BvcnQNCndvcmsgKCBpbiBw YXJ0aWN1bGFyIEkgdGhpbmsgZnJhZ21lbnRhdGlvbiBpc3N1ZXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGFkZHJlc3Nl ZCBpbiBiaXMtZWRucyApLiANCkFmdGVyIHRoYXQsIEkgdGhpbmsgYSBzZW5zaWJsZSBwYXVzZSB3 aGlsZSBETlNTRUMgZGVwbG95bWVudCBwcm9jZWVlZHMgDQp3b3VsZCBiZSBzZW5zaWJsZS4gSWYg YXQgdGhhdCBwb2ludCBmdXJ0aGVyIHdvcmsgc2VlbXMganVzdGlmaWVkLCB0aGF0IHdvdWxkDQpi ZSB0aGUgdGltZSB0byBwcm9jZWVkLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KR2VvcmdlIEJhcndvb2QNCg== From derivingmu532@fhcfixture.com Wed Jul 7 15:02:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCBE3A69A5; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.781 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.781 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, BODY_ENHANCEMENT2=0.001, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, MORE_SEX=1.183, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_ADULT2=1.42, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, TVD_FINGER_02=2.134, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AD0ntFSTbKxK; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bzq-79-181-45-240.red.bezeqint.net (bzq-79-181-45-240.red.bezeqint.net [79.181.45.240]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7F43A68C7; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb1e20$1e315f50$6400a8c0@derivingmu532> From: To: Subject: Feel Fuller And Wider... To Youu And Her! Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected ManXtenz Pills contain a patented combination of the very best male potency ingredients, many used for centuries to increase male sexual appetite, interest, and responsiveness! It includes two trademarked ingredients, Sustanol and Testostogen, that give what we like to call "the extra kick." Together, they create a powerful calibration designed to increase your body's natural production of nitric oxide, promote the dilation of blood vessels, producing harder, faster, longer erections, relax the muscle that allows blood to flow into the penis, and increase your testosterone production! 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To Youu And Her! Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected ManXtenz Pills contain a patented combination of the very best male potency ingredients, many used for centuries to increase male sexual appetite, interest, and responsiveness! It includes two trademarked ingredients, Sustanol and Testostogen, that give what we like to call "the extra kick." Together, they create a powerful calibration designed to increase your body's natural production of nitric oxide, promote the dilation of blood vessels, producing harder, faster, longer erections, relax the muscle that allows blood to flow into the penis, and increase your testosterone production! Plus, it helps increase your feelings of pleasure by harnessing the power of L-Dopa, the natural amino acid that's used by your body to synthesize dopamine! http://pillloss.ru/?725382qefqrji=aak&485444 From diffserv-interest-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 7 15:03:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E3C3A69BC for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The results of your email commands From: diffserv-interest-bounces@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1589362225==" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:02:46 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: diffserv-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: Differentiated services general discussion X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: diffserv-interest-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-interest-bounces@ietf.org --===============1589362225== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Unprocessed: It includes two trademarked ingredients, Sustanol and Testostogen, that give what we like to call "the extra kick." Together, they create a powerful calibration designed to increase your body's natural production of nitric oxide, promote the dilation of blood vessels, producing harder, faster, longer erections, relax the muscle that allows blood to flow into the penis, and increase your testosterone production! Plus, it helps increase your feelings of pleasure by harnessing the power of L-Dopa, the natural amino acid that's used by your body to synthesize dopamine! http://pillloss.ru/?725382qefqrji=aak&485444 - Done. --===============1589362225== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: X-Original-To: diffserv-interest-request@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: diffserv-interest-request@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCBE3A69A5; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.781 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.781 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, BODY_ENHANCEMENT2=0.001, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, MORE_SEX=1.183, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_ADULT2=1.42, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, TVD_FINGER_02=2.134, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AD0ntFSTbKxK; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bzq-79-181-45-240.red.bezeqint.net (bzq-79-181-45-240.red.bezeqint.net [79.181.45.240]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7F43A68C7; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb1e20$1e315f50$6400a8c0@derivingmu532> From: To: Subject: Feel Fuller And Wider... To Youu And Her! Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected ManXtenz Pills contain a patented combination of the very best male potency ingredients, many used for centuries to increase male sexual appetite, interest, and responsiveness! It includes two trademarked ingredients, Sustanol and Testostogen, that give what we like to call "the extra kick." Together, they create a powerful calibration designed to increase your body's natural production of nitric oxide, promote the dilation of blood vessels, producing harder, faster, longer erections, relax the muscle that allows blood to flow into the penis, and increase your testosterone production! Plus, it helps increase your feelings of pleasure by harnessing the power of L-Dopa, the natural amino acid that's used by your body to synthesize dopamine! http://pillloss.ru/?725382qefqrji=aak&485444 --===============1589362225==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 7 15:03:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387743A699C for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The results of your email commands From: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0661105345==" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:02:52 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============0661105345== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Unprocessed: It includes two trademarked ingredients, Sustanol and Testostogen, that give what we like to call "the extra kick." Together, they create a powerful calibration designed to increase your body's natural production of nitric oxide, promote the dilation of blood vessels, producing harder, faster, longer erections, relax the muscle that allows blood to flow into the penis, and increase your testosterone production! Plus, it helps increase your feelings of pleasure by harnessing the power of L-Dopa, the natural amino acid that's used by your body to synthesize dopamine! http://pillloss.ru/?725382qefqrji=aak&485444 - Done. --===============0661105345== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop-request@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop-request@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCBE3A69A5; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.781 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.781 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, BODY_ENHANCEMENT2=0.001, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, MORE_SEX=1.183, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_ADULT2=1.42, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, TVD_FINGER_02=2.134, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AD0ntFSTbKxK; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bzq-79-181-45-240.red.bezeqint.net (bzq-79-181-45-240.red.bezeqint.net [79.181.45.240]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7F43A68C7; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb1e20$1e315f50$6400a8c0@derivingmu532> From: To: Subject: Feel Fuller And Wider... To Youu And Her! Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:02:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected ManXtenz Pills contain a patented combination of the very best male potency ingredients, many used for centuries to increase male sexual appetite, interest, and responsiveness! It includes two trademarked ingredients, Sustanol and Testostogen, that give what we like to call "the extra kick." Together, they create a powerful calibration designed to increase your body's natural production of nitric oxide, promote the dilation of blood vessels, producing harder, faster, longer erections, relax the muscle that allows blood to flow into the penis, and increase your testosterone production! Plus, it helps increase your feelings of pleasure by harnessing the power of L-Dopa, the natural amino acid that's used by your body to synthesize dopamine! http://pillloss.ru/?725382qefqrji=aak&485444 --===============0661105345==-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 16:55:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F863A69E2; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:55:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.804 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.804 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.309, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5+zzvOh9kiLF; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19B63A69DB; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWeNJ-000A9k-5X for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:49:57 +0000 Received: from [74.125.82.180] (helo=mail-wy0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWeNG-000A9L-5f for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:49:54 +0000 Received: by wya21 with SMTP id 21so244515wya.11 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:49:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=B2B0DTZFKM4jMsT8rRsPOjYPtasRPFLW0SruiaQNwpE=; b=pHoaTq3SDe6i7lBRfeWpVgsCGt1P91+xl7LIoOjzYcsXWtlZYIrdWOvqYVB9Pte2Rp QFj4B5SQzi1mf8u+giyNhGa/DLJR9rLsY0n844WKs6G1Nf8brt4JwPRqa3felPmZe92k C6ThbdCBnNLfBvMqhBKlGEABmyfj176TUPz0M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rr3qBRdiogG0fdEbHu2Kj7BKfpVtY+N8e7KQI96PVTpZJRJfzo4CwzjJjWVKjlOy6M qo9BsD+WcLOWN1KEXUpyseiZawVLixFyZELDeOaWrHtWJimH99EjhL3oHH+q5yU3CzLX iivq46E1NifT2uvLCpagXQytwXDFLDGAPXiFg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.79.69 with SMTP id h47mr1715024wee.68.1278546592533; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.88.70 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:49:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:49:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? From: Donald Eastlake To: IETF DNSEXT WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I support the adoption of this document. Thanks, Donald On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Rose, Scott W. wrote: > I support the adoption of this doc. =A0I think it is necessary for the ad= vancement of dname-bis. > > Scott > > On Jul 5, 2010, at 2:11 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> We have received a request that the WG adopt >> draft-eastlake-dnsext-xnamercode-02.txt and make some decisions about >> it. >> >> We ask participants to express their support or non-support of >> adoption of the document. =A0The usual conventions apply: five >> participants must express their support, their view that the document >> is on-charter, and their willingness to review. >> >> We will have some time to discuss the document and next steps when in >> Maastricht. >> >> Best regards, >> >> A >> >> -- >> Andrew Sullivan >> ajs@shinkuro.com >> Shinkuro, Inc. >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Scott Rose > NIST > scottr@nist.gov > +1 301-975-8439 > Google Voice: +1 571-249-3671 > http://www.dnsops.gov/ > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 19:00:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36313A69ED; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:00:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XXTyKZA8X8ln; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97BCD3A6827; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWgJz-000NRF-Hz for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:54:39 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWgJx-000NQl-0Z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:54:37 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D6AA1031 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 01:54:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:06:41 -0400." <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:54:36 +0000 Message-ID: <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 14:06:41 -0400 > From: Andrew Sullivan > > This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter > for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. ... > > I attach it again here for your convenience. ... > > This topic will take a considerable chunk of the time we have > scheduled in Maastricht. The charter represents our commitments to > the rest of the IETF. > > If you have opinions on it, it would be nice to hear them. ... with the understanding that there's a range of possible views as to the desireability of continued evolution in a mature deployed protocol, here are mine. i apologize to our WGC's for the lateness of this reply. +--- | DRAFT charter for DNSEXT, 2010-05-28. SUBJECT TO CHANGE ... | The WG will consider work in the following areas: | | * DNSSEC and TSIG/TKEY algorithm maintenance | * Mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0) since TSIG and SIG(0) are both last-mile (recursive to stub) protocols, perhaps this bullet item would be clearer if it was amended to say: * Last mile (recursive to stub) mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0); specifically including stub DNSSEC validation and protocol extensions to support same. | * Hardening DNS protocol and providing guidance to implementers the word "hardening" is at best unclear in this context. perhaps this can be reworded as follows: * Improving defensibility and resiliency of DNS protocol agents by analyzing possible buffer overrun/underrun conditions and offering implementation guideance on test coverage for same. | * Improving DNS zone synchronization mechanisms i think this is too specific, and should be reworded as follows: * Improving DNS zone and DNS server configuration synchronization mechanisms ... | Goals and Milestones: ... +--- i have no other comments. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 19:13:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2953A67F3; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:13:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.539 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.735, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_OBFU_PART_ALI=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u5OzR2dX6jND; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC7943A6403; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWgYI-000PEC-5m for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:09:26 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWgY6-000PBs-C4 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:09:23 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:08:59 +0800 Message-ID: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:08:59 +0800 Message-ID: <7B91E12895A749F3AB9E263AEB64E595@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Jiankang YAO" To: , References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:09:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogPGZ1aml3YXJhQGpwcnMuY28u anA+DQpUbzogPG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIEp1 bHkgMDcsIDIwMTAgNzoyNCBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogW2Ruc2V4dF0gZHJhZnQteWFvLWRuc2V4dC1i bmFtZS0wMy50eHQNCg0KDQo+IE15IGNvbW1lbnRzIGZvciBkcmFmdC15YW8tZG5zZXh0LWJuYW1l LTAzLnR4dDoNCj4gDQo+IDEuIFRoZSBkcmFmdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBleHBsYWluIENOQU1FK0JOQU1F IHByb2JsZW0uDQo+IA0KPiBUaGUgc2FtZSBjb21tZW50cyBhcmUgYWxyZWFkeSBkaXNjdXNzZWQg aW4gdGhpcyBsaXN0Lg0KPiANCj4gUkZDIDIxODEgc2VjdGlvbiAxMC4xICJDTkFNRSByZXNvdXJj ZSByZWNvcmRzIiBzdGF0ZXMNCj4gIisgb25lIG9yIG1vcmUgcmVjb3JkcyBleGlzdCwgbm9uZSBi ZWluZyBDTkFNRSByZWNvcmRzLCIuDQo+IEJ1dCBzZWN0aW9uIDQuMSBzdGVwIDMuYSBnZW5lcmF0 ZXMgYW5zd2VycyB3aGljaCBjb250YWluIENOQU1FIFJSIGFuZA0KPiBCTkFNRSBSUiBmb3IgdGhl IHNhbWUgb3duZXIgbmFtZS4NCg0KTXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBvZiBSRkMgMjE4MSBzZWN0aW9u IDEwLjEgaXMgdGhhdCB5b3UgY2FuIG5vdCBjb25maWd1cmUgb3RoZXIgcmVjb3VyZHMgZXhjZXB0 IGRuc3NlYyBSUnMgaW4gdGhlIHpvbmUgaWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBjbmFtZS4NCg0KYnV0IHRoZSBD TkFNRSBSUiByZWxhdGVkIHRvIEJOQU1FIFJSIGlzIHN5bnRoZXRpemVkLiB0aGVyZSBpcyBub3Qg YSByZWFsIENOQU1FIFJSIGluIHRoZSB6b25lLg0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgUkZDIDIxODEgc2Vj dGlvbiAxMC4xIGRvZXMgbm90IHByb2hpYml0IHRoYXQgd2UgY2FuIHByb3ZpZGUgYSBjbmFtZSBp biB0aGUgYW5zd2VyIHNlY3Rpb24uDQoNCg0KPiAyLiBleGFtcGxlcyBuZWVkZWQuDQo+IA0KPiBQ bGVhc2Ugc2VlIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG5zZXh0LXJmYzI2NzJiaXMtZG5hbWUtMTkgc2VjdGlvbiAy LjIuDQo+IA0KPiBJIHdhbnQgdG8gc2VlIHpvbmUgZmlsZSBleGFtcGxlIGluIGFwcGVuZGl4IHNl Y3Rpb24uDQoNCm9rLCB3aWxsIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRvIGFkZCBpdC4NCg0KPiANCj4gNC4gV2h5IGRv IHlvdSBjb25zaWRlciBSU0FTSEEyNTYvUlNBU0hBNTEyIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgUlNBU0hBMSA/DQo+ IA0KDQogUlNBU0hBMjU2L1JTQVNIQTUxMiAgaXMgYWxzbyBhIHBvc3NpYmxlIG9wdGlvbi4NCg0K SSB0aGluayB0aGF0ICBSU0FTSEExaXMgbW9yZSBwb3B1bGFyIHRoYW4gUlNBU0hBMjU2L1JTQVNI QTUxMiBpbiBkbnNzZWMuDQoNCmN1cnJlbnRseSwgd2UgZ2l2ZSBSU0FTSEExIHRoZSBibmFtZSBh bGlhcyBuYW1lLiBpbiBmdXR1cmUsIGlmIGFsbCBzZXJ2ZXJzIGFuZCByZXNvbHZlcnMgc3VwcG9y dCBibmFtZSwgYWxnb3JpdGhpbWljIGFsaWFzIG5hbWUgbWF5IG5vdCBiZSBuZWNlc3NhcnkuDQpz byB5b3UgY2FuIGNob29zZSBhbnkgYWxnb3JpdGhpbSBmb3IgYm5hbWUuDQoNCnJmYzU3MDIjc2Vj dGlvbi04LjEgc3VnZ2VzdHMgdGhhdCB3ZSB1c2Ugc2hhMi4NCg0KIA0KDQoNCj4gUmVnYXJkcywN Cj4gDQo+IC0tDQo+IEthenVub3JpIEZ1aml3YXJhLCBKUFJTIDxmdWppd2FyYUBqcHJzLmNvLmpw Pg0KPg== From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 7 22:26:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129753A6902; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:26:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.824 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.824 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_BLUEYON=1.4, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vxhbbIk89QxA; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27263A6818; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWjWh-000ION-RJ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:19:59 +0000 Received: from [195.188.213.7] (helo=smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWjWf-000INY-8z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:19:57 +0000 Received: from [172.23.170.146] (helo=anti-virus03-09) by smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1OWjWd-0002Qg-Mo for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:19:55 +0100 Received: from [92.238.99.235] (helo=GeorgeLaptop) by asmtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1OWjWc-000408-LP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:19:54 +0100 Message-ID: From: "George Barwood" To: References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:19:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIlBhdWwgVml4aWUiIDx2aXhp ZUBpc2Mub3JnPg0KVG86IDxuYW1lZHJvcHBlcnNAb3BzLmlldGYub3JnPg0KDQo+IHwgKiBIYXJk ZW5pbmcgRE5TIHByb3RvY29sIGFuZCBwcm92aWRpbmcgZ3VpZGFuY2UgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50ZXJz DQo+IA0KPiB0aGUgd29yZCAiaGFyZGVuaW5nIiBpcyBhdCBiZXN0IHVuY2xlYXIgaW4gdGhpcyBj b250ZXh0LiAgcGVyaGFwcyB0aGlzIGNhbg0KPiBiZSByZXdvcmRlZCBhcyBmb2xsb3dzOg0KPiAN Cj4gKiBJbXByb3ZpbmcgZGVmZW5zaWJpbGl0eSBhbmQgcmVzaWxpZW5jeSBvZiBETlMgcHJvdG9j b2wgYWdlbnRzIGJ5IGFuYWx5emluZw0KPiAgcG9zc2libGUgYnVmZmVyIG92ZXJydW4vdW5kZXJy dW4gY29uZGl0aW9ucyBhbmQgb2ZmZXJpbmcgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24NCj4gIGd1aWRlYW5jZSBv biB0ZXN0IGNvdmVyYWdlIGZvciBzYW1lLg0KDQpNeSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIG9mICJoYXJkZW5p bmciIGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgcmVmZXJzIHRvIG1lYXN1cmVzIHRvIG1pdGlnYXRlIG9yIHByZXZlbnQN CnRoZSB2YXJpb3VzIGRlbmlhbCBvZiBzZXJ2aWNlIC8gcHJpdmFjeSBhdHRhY2tzIHRoYXQgbWF5 IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIHdpdGggdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgRE5TIHRyYW5zcG9ydCwNCmVzcGVjaWFsbHkg dGhvc2Ugd2hpY2ggbWF5IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBhZ2dyYXZhdGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBpbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24g b2YgRE5TU0VDIGFuZCBFRE5TLg0KDQpUaGF0IGRvZXNuJ3QgbWVhbiB0aGF0IGV2ZXJ5IHN1Y2gg cHJvcG9zYWwgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGFkb3B0ZWQsIGp1c3QgdGhhdCBzdWNoIHByb3Bvc2Fscw0KYXJl IHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgc2NvcGUgb2YgdGhlIFdHLg0KDQoNCg== From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Thu Jul 8 04:53:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B133A6A6F for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:53:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <6+jBaYI8ApQE> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -57%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -27.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-27.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6+jBaYI8ApQE for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1-196-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net (1-196-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net [94.178.196.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A3D1F3A6A57 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -57% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100708115308.A3D1F3A6A57@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:53:08 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 8 05:31:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45F23A6AB9; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.841 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.841 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IbVpMaRNoUhl; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C253A6A99; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 05:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWq8s-000IeJ-T2 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:23:50 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWq8q-000Idk-3t for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:23:48 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 27F527344F6; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:23:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C35C34F.10802@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:23:43 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100608 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Andrew, I have read the new charter and I am fine with it atm. Ondrej On 5.7.2010 20:06, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > This is a reminder that we posted some time ago a new draft charter > for the WG. We've had very little feedback on it. Two of the > responses asked for us to move the timelines; I have resisted those > calls, but I wonder whether others think more aggressive timelines to > be reasonable. > > I attach it again here for your convenience. I have not yet made the > editorial changes suggested by one eagle-eyed reviewer (off list). > > This topic will take a considerable chunk of the time we have > scheduled in Maastricht. The charter represents our commitments to > the rest of the IETF. > > If you have opinions on it, it would be nice to hear them. We expect > to discuss this in Maastricht and then send it along to our AD, > barring any changes. -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/R&D manager ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 8 06:22:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5563A6ABF; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.676 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.676 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGh5haw29AnY; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682E43A67A1; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWqzz-000279-Sx for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:18:43 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWqzw-00026S-Vv for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:18:41 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:18:38 +0800 Message-ID: <478595118.14715@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO abc) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:18:38 +0800 Message-ID: <8A0D44E7A5BA4243953217A3BDEE477A@abc> From: "Yao Jiankang" To: =?utf-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= , "Andrew Sullivan" Cc: References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> <478592955.09671@cnnic.cn> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:18:29 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: SSBhbSBmaW5lIHdpdGggaXQgdG9vLg0KDQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0K RnJvbTogIk9uZMWZZWogU3Vyw70iIDxvbmRyZWouc3VyeUBuaWMuY3o+DQpUbzogIkFuZHJldyBT dWxsaXZhbiIgPGFqc0BzaGlua3Vyby5jb20+DQpDYzogPG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5v cmc+DQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgSnVseSAwOCwgMjAxMCA4OjIzIFBNDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog W2Ruc2V4dF0gUmVtaW5kZXI6IGRyYWZ0IGNoYXJ0ZXIgd2FzIHBvc3RlZCBmb3IgZGlzY3Vzc2lv bg0KDQoNCj4gQW5kcmV3LA0KPiANCj4gSSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhlIG5ldyBjaGFydGVyIGFuZCBJ IGFtIGZpbmUgd2l0aCBpdCBhdG0uDQo+IA0KPiBPbmRyZWoNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDUuNy4yMDEwIDIw OjA2LCBBbmRyZXcgU3VsbGl2YW4gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBEZWFyIGNvbGxlYWd1ZXMsDQo+Pg0KPj4g VGhpcyBpcyBhIHJlbWluZGVyIHRoYXQgd2UgcG9zdGVkIHNvbWUgdGltZSBhZ28gYSBuZXcgZHJh ZnQgY2hhcnRlcg0KPj4gZm9yIHRoZSBXRy4gIFdlJ3ZlIGhhZCB2ZXJ5IGxpdHRsZSBmZWVkYmFj ayBvbiBpdC4gIFR3byBvZiB0aGUNCj4+IHJlc3BvbnNlcyBhc2tlZCBmb3IgdXMgdG8gbW92ZSB0 aGUgdGltZWxpbmVzOyBJIGhhdmUgcmVzaXN0ZWQgdGhvc2UNCj4+IGNhbGxzLCBidXQgSSB3b25k ZXIgd2hldGhlciBvdGhlcnMgdGhpbmsgbW9yZSBhZ2dyZXNzaXZlIHRpbWVsaW5lcyB0bw0KPj4g YmUgcmVhc29uYWJsZS4NCj4+DQo+PiBJIGF0dGFjaCBpdCBhZ2FpbiBoZXJlIGZvciB5b3VyIGNv bnZlbmllbmNlLiAgSSBoYXZlIG5vdCB5ZXQgbWFkZSB0aGUNCj4+IGVkaXRvcmlhbCBjaGFuZ2Vz IHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBieSBvbmUgZWFnbGUtZXllZCByZXZpZXdlciAob2ZmIGxpc3QpLg0KPj4NCj4+ IFRoaXMgdG9waWMgd2lsbCB0YWtlIGEgY29uc2lkZXJhYmxlIGNodW5rIG9mIHRoZSB0aW1lIHdl IGhhdmUNCj4+IHNjaGVkdWxlZCBpbiBNYWFzdHJpY2h0LiAgVGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgcmVwcmVzZW50 cyBvdXIgY29tbWl0bWVudHMgdG8NCj4+IHRoZSByZXN0IG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGLg0KPj4NCj4+IElm IHlvdSBoYXZlIG9waW5pb25zIG9uIGl0LCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBuaWNlIHRvIGhlYXIgdGhlbS4g IFdlIGV4cGVjdA0KPj4gdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB0aGlzIGluIE1hYXN0cmljaHQgYW5kIHRoZW4gc2Vu ZCBpdCBhbG9uZyB0byBvdXIgQUQsDQo+PiBiYXJyaW5nIGFueSBjaGFuZ2VzLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+ IC0tIA0KPiAgT25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ0KPiAgdmVkb3Vjw60gdsO9emt1bXUvUiZEIG1hbmFnZXIN Cj4gIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gIENaLk5J Qywgei5zLnAuby4gICAgLS0gICAgTGFib3JhdG/FmWUgQ1ouTklDDQo+ICBBbWVyaWNrYSAyMywg MTIwIDAwIFByYWhhIDIsIEN6ZWNoIFJlcHVibGljDQo+ICBtYWlsdG86b25kcmVqLnN1cnlAbmlj LmN6ICAgIGh0dHA6Ly9uaWMuY3ovDQo+ICB0ZWw6KzQyMC4yMjI3NDUxMTAgICAgICAgZmF4Ois0 MjAuMjIyNzQ1MTEyDQo+ICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tDQo+IA0KPg== From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 8 08:58:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9F63A6B2C; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:58:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.841 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.841 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p2ytZ-EIfzwv; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DAE3A6B27; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWtOW-0000fF-02 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:52:12 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWtOT-0000eM-5I for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:52:09 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4297E7341A8; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:52:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C35F425.5010807@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:52:05 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100608 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Paul, > | * Mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0) > > since TSIG and SIG(0) are both last-mile (recursive to stub) protocols, > perhaps this bullet item would be clearer if it was amended to say: > > * Last mile (recursive to stub) mechanisms that complement, or are > alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0); specifically including stub DNSSEC > validation and protocol extensions to support same. We use TSIG to authenticate AXFR - hence I am unsure if limiting to "Last mile" isn't too specific. > | * Hardening DNS protocol and providing guidance to implementers > > the word "hardening" is at best unclear in this context. perhaps this can > be reworded as follows: > > * Improving defensibility and resiliency of DNS protocol agents by analyzing > possible buffer overrun/underrun conditions and offering implementation > guideance on test coverage for same. I think you have changed meaning of the "Hardening DNS protocol" to "Hardening DNS implementations". Both is fine, but different. Anyway I'm fine with word "Hardening". > | * Improving DNS zone synchronization mechanisms > > i think this is too specific, and should be reworded as follows: > > * Improving DNS zone and DNS server configuration synchronization mechanisms I'm unsure if DNS server configurations doesn't fall in dnsop area. -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 8 08:58:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37303A6B24; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.471 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.471 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.370, BAYES_50=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qOepbcfAMiDz; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4F93A6877; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWtSK-0001XJ-65 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:56:08 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OWtSH-0001WW-Ad for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:56:05 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6FF3734510; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:56:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C35F514.5000302@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:56:04 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100608 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? References: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> In-Reply-To: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 5.7.2010 20:11, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > We have received a request that the WG adopt > draft-eastlake-dnsext-xnamercode-02.txt and make some decisions about > it. > > We ask participants to express their support or non-support of > adoption of the document. The usual conventions apply: five > participants must express their support, their view that the document > is on-charter, and their willingness to review. > > We will have some time to discuss the document and next steps when in > Maastricht. I have read the document and I support the adoption of this document. Ondrej S. -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Thu Jul 8 23:21:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F183A6813 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:21:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...rchive@ietf.org Pharmacy \256 Official Site -32%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.317 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.317 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_H_PHARMACY=1, GB_PHARMACY=1, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ceNfCdjlD-ct for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barakuda.convex.ru (barakuda.convex.ru [79.172.12.38]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5F2A13A680C for ; Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:21:28 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Pharmacy ® Official Site -32% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100709062128.5F2A13A680C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
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From jitazozoli5873@ttnet.net.tr Fri Jul 9 03:18:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478A83A69F4 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 03:18:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.94 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.94 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_TR=0.935, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C3isTzHGYi-6 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 03:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ttnet.net.tr (unknown [88.228.149.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FD23A69C5 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 03:18:39 -0700 (PDT) From: SexualHealthPharmacy To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: 80% Sale invitation for dnsext-archive. of as Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:18:54 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20100709101840.39FD23A69C5@core3.amsl.com> been subdivided Newsletter
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 9 07:28:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6068A3A6A2F; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:28:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.548 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.266, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hQlkm1QknFhD; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D553B3A68C8; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXESE-000KKF-2l for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:21:26 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXESA-000KIy-MW for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:21:23 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (external.shinkuro.com [66.92.164.104]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02CA11ECB408 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:21:18 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:21:08 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit Message-ID: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, On 2010-07-06, there was a design team meeting in Bethesda, MD, to address the issue of setting the CD bit in the dnssec-bis-updates draft. David Blacka, Olafur Gudmundsson, Mike StJohns, and Andrew Sullivan attended. We convened the meeting because there had been a lot of discussion on the mailing list about the handling of the CD bit, and we didn't seem to be reaching a resolution. The meeting was very helpful to the chairs, and we thank David and Mike for taking the time. In the meeting, we concluded by describing three different models for how the CD bit is to be treated and used by a validating resolver (i.e. one that has at least one trust anchor), and what interaction this has with a local cache. We based these models on RFC 4035, on the discussion we saw on the list on this topic, and on what we think people have implemented. We want one, and only one, of these models to be described in the draft as the standard model. These models are outlined below. The design team noted that the generic model of stub resolver talking to recursive resolver talking to authoritative server, while the most common for any given query, is not the only possible model. In particular, it is possible (by configuration or proxy interception) for there to be more than one recursive (and possibly validating) resolver between the client and the authoritative server. The design team reaffirmed that 4035 does not adequately address the setting of the CD bit on queries originated, forwarded or recursed from an intermediate validating resolver. The team relied on the assumption that an intermediate validating resolver is required to set CD=1 for any upstream query where the original query also had the CD bit set. That restriction has been explicit in the dnssec-bis-updates draft since version -09, and participants thought it uncontroversial. The following tables reflect that consensus. The tables that describe the model have five columns. The first column indicates the value of the CD bit that the resolver receives (for instance, on the name server side in an iterative resolver, or as local policy or from the API in the case of a stub). The next column indicates whether the query needs to be forwarded for resolution (F) or can be satisfied from a local cache (C). The next column is a line number, so that it can be referred to later in the table and later in our discussion. The next column indicates any relevant conditions at the resolver: whether the resolver has a covering trust anchor, and so on (if there are no parameters here, the column is empty). The final column indicates what the resolver does. The tables differentiate between "cached data" and "cached RCODE=2". This is supposed to be shorthand; the point is that one has to treat RCODE=2 as special, because it might indicate a validation failure somewhere upstream. The distinction is really between "cached RCODE=2" and "cached everything else". If you have a better way to capture this in short language, your suggestion would be appreciated The tables are probably easiest to think of in terms of describing what happens when a stub resolver sends a query to an intermediate resolver, but they are perfectly general and can be applied to any validating resolver (e.g. a resolver of any sort forwarding to another resolver). Model 1: "always set" This model is so named because the validating resolver sets the CD bit on queries it makes regardless of whether it has a covering trust anchor for the query. The general philosophy represented by this table is that only one resolver should be responsible for validation irrespective of the possibility that an upstream resolver may be present and with TAs that cover different or additional QNAMEs. CD F/C line conditions action ======================================================================= 1 F A1 Set CD=1 on upstream query 0 F A2 Set CD=1 on upstream query 1 C A3 Return the cache contents (data or RCODE=2) 0 C A4 no covering TA Return cache contents (data or RCODE=2) 0 C A5 covering TA Validate cached result and return it. Model 2: "never set" This model is so named because it sets CD=0 on upstream queries for all received CD=0 queries even if it has a covering trust anchor. ("Never" is really too strong: obviously, if the query arrives at the resolver with CD=1, it must set CD when it performs the query as well.) The general philosophy represented by this table is that more than one resolver may take responsibility for validating a QNAME and that a validation failure for a QNAME by any resolver in the chain is a validation failure for the query. CD F/C line conditions action ======================================================================= 1 F N1 Set CD=1 on upstream query 0 F N2 Set CD=0 on upstream query 1 C N3 cached data Return cached data 1 C N4 cached RCODE=2 Treat as line N1 0 C N5 no covering TA Return cache contents (data or RCODE=2) 0 C N6 covering TA & Treat as line N2 cached data was generated with CD=1 0 C N7 covering TA & Validate and return cached data was generated with CD=0 Model 3: "sometimes set" This model is so named because it sets the CD bit on upstream queries triggered by received CD=0 queries based on whether the validator has a TA configured that covers the query. If there is no covering TA, the resolver clears the CD bit in the upstream query. If there is a covering TA, it sets CD=1 and performs validation itself. The general philosophy represented by this table is that a resolver should try and validate QNAMEs for which is has trust anchors and should not preclude validation by other resolvers for QNAMEs for which it does not have covering trust anchors. CD F/C line conditions action ======================================================================= 1 F S1 Set CD=1 on upstream query 0 F S2 covering TA Set CD=1 on upstream query 0 F S3 no covering TA Set CD=0 on upstream query 1 C S4 cached data Return cached data 1 C S5 cached RCODE=2 Treat as line S1 0 C S6 cached data was Return cache contents generated with CD=0 0 C S7 cached data was Validate & return cache generated with contents CD=1 & covering TA 0 C S8 cached RCODE=2 Return cache contents 0 C S9 cached data Treat as line S3 was generated with CD=1 & no covering TA Please offer your thoughts on these models and state which of them you think should be in the draft as the way to handle the CD bit. We will devote some time in the Monday Maastricht session to this issue. We want to bring it to a close at that meeting. Best regards, Andrew (as design team stenographer) -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jul 9 10:57:21 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9B83A6831 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:57:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <6HA2y1RkQa5s> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -64%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.968 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.968 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6HA2y1RkQa5s for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 215-73-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net (117-10-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net [92.112.10.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A01FC3A67B3 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:57:12 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -64% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100709175712.A01FC3A67B3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:57:12 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 9 14:14:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B993A68D0; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:14:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YOderVgYKNbx; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA3E23A68CC; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXKmm-000NH1-LK for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:07:04 +0000 Received: from [2001:4900:1:392:213:20ff:fe1b:3bfe] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXKmk-000NGl-39 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:07:02 +0000 Received: from [199.212.90.29] (helo=dh29.r1.owls.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXKmi-000IpV-0G; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:07:00 +0000 Subject: Re: [dnsext] xNAME RCODE clarification adoption? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:06:59 -0400 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5E605973-529A-459D-AF19-28F581270009@hopcount.ca> References: <20100705181101.GG49823@crankycanuck.ca> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 199.212.90.29 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-05, at 14:11, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > We have received a request that the WG adopt > draft-eastlake-dnsext-xnamercode-02.txt and make some decisions about > it. >=20 > We ask participants to express their support or non-support of > adoption of the document. The usual conventions apply: five > participants must express their support, their view that the document > is on-charter, and their willingness to review. I have read the document; I support it's adoption; I can review = subsequent revisions. Joe From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 9 14:17:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B393A68DC; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlJ3+oO7PALX; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43E03A68CC; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXKtA-000OAN-2g for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:13:40 +0000 Received: from [2001:4900:1:392:213:20ff:fe1b:3bfe] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXKt6-000O9n-1g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:13:36 +0000 Received: from [199.212.90.29] (helo=dh29.r1.owls.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXKt4-000J1c-BD; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:13:35 +0000 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:13:33 -0400 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 199.212.90.29 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-05, at 14:06, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > If you have opinions on it, it would be nice to hear them. We expect > to discuss this in Maastricht and then send it along to our AD, > barring any changes. The proposed new charter looks sane to me. Here are some trivial, = non-substantitve edits. With or without them, I support this revised = charter. Joe --- draft-2010-05-28-orig.txt 2010-07-09 17:09:51.000000000 -0400 +++ draft-2010-05-28.txt 2010-07-09 17:12:21.000000000 -0400 @@ -21,7 +21,7 @@ * Maintaining a Wiki containing a guide to DNS protocol RFCs * Improving DNS zone synchronization mechanisms=20 * Examining transport protocols, possibly adding new ones. -* Mechanisms to alias DNS trees or parts thereof +* Exploring mechanisms to alias DNS trees or parts thereof =20 While the DNS offers two mechanisms for aliasing DNS labels -- CNAME and DNAME -- neither of these provides the support necessary to alias @@ -29,7 +29,7 @@ that the restriction has proven to be too great in practice, particularly with burgeoning deployment of IDNA and the need to provide domain name variants. The issue is made more complex by -DNSSEC +the deployment of DNSSEC. =20 The DNSEXT WG will evaluate ways to provide such aliasing, to add metadata to zones to allow easier operation of zones when such @@ -49,7 +49,7 @@ =20 The WG will review DNS protocol related work which may originate elsewhere in the IETF, including AD-sponsored submissions or drafts -in other working group. +in other working groups. =20 Goals and Milestones: From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 9 14:37:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AFC33A68BD; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xucq75C1xLUr; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081B03A681D; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXLC5-0000SV-3R for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:33:13 +0000 Received: from [2001:4900:1:392:213:20ff:fe1b:3bfe] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXLC2-0000SD-Dt for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:33:10 +0000 Received: from [199.212.90.29] (helo=dh29.r1.owls.hopcount.ca) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXLBu-000Jen-KE; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:33:09 +0000 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Adoption of draft-dempsky-dnscurve-01 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <20100707165338.GD5157@vacation.karoshi.com.> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:33:01 -0400 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20100705182225.GH49823@shinkuro.com> <4C3307D8.1020802@sidn.nl> <20100706153707.GE53776@shinkuro.com> <84D63CCF-9BE6-43AA-B8F4-3403005E8177@icsi.berkeley.edu> <20100707054706.GB57099@shinkuro.com> <2052.1278511276@nsa.vix.com> <20100707165338.GD5157@vacation.karoshi.com.> To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 199.212.90.29 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-07, at 12:53, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: >>> --On 7 July 2010 01:47:06 -0400 Andrew Sullivan = wrote: >=20 > The WG has two choices: >=20 > ) adopt the draft for discussion as a WG item (and the new = charter > looks like this is ok) > =09 > or >=20 > ) send a note to the IESG indicating that this is outside the WG = charter > and the IESG should _not_ send it to the WG for consideration = when > the author(s) submit this as an indivdual submission. I don't understand why you think so. We can decide not to adopt all manner of documents as working group = items, but still offer to review them as individual submissions if they = relate to the DNS. This is not materially different from reviewing = individual submissions for which the question of wg adoption has not = come up. Joe From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 9 15:10:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFE83A68DC; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:10:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N67ii8XQL2qG; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFAC63A68C0; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXLiF-0004vI-08 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 22:06:27 +0000 Received: from [2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe11:220a] (helo=vacation.karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXLi9-0004PL-7S for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 22:06:24 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o69M4xV7022161; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:04:59 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id o69M4xrA022160; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:04:59 GMT Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:04:59 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit Message-ID: <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:21:08AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > On 2010-07-06, there was a design team meeting in Bethesda, MD, to > address the issue of setting the CD bit in the dnssec-bis-updates > draft. David Blacka, Olafur Gudmundsson, Mike StJohns, and Andrew > Sullivan attended. > > In the meeting, we concluded by describing three different models for > how the CD bit is to be treated and used by a validating resolver > (i.e. one that has at least one trust anchor), and what interaction > this has with a local cache. We based these models on RFC 4035, on > the discussion we saw on the list on this topic, and on what we think > people have implemented. We want one, and only one, of these models > to be described in the draft as the standard model. These models are > outlined below. so the We in the para above is the design team of yourself, David, Olafur, and Mike. This does not meet the WG criteria of "five" reviewers. Perhaps the WG would like to weigh in on the recommendation that the design team came up with, ie that only one of the models be described as the "standard" model. > Please offer your thoughts on these models and state which of them you > think should be in the draft as the way to handle the CD bit. We will > devote some time in the Monday Maastricht session to this issue. We > want to bring it to a close at that meeting. I guess the questions I have, before proceeding down the selection process is, Are there good reasons to use different models? (I can think of reasons to use other interpretations, fwiw). Is there a compelling reason to select only one model? If one is standard, are the others still optional or will they be forbidden? If they are to be forbidden, can we document why? --bill > > Best regards, > > Andrew (as design team stenographer) > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 9 16:32:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D8E3A685A; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:32:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zkVOnep6SMes; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 782EF3A68AE; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXMz8-000Nhb-7U for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:27:58 +0000 Received: from [2001:1890:1112:1::2f] (helo=rfc-editor.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXMz5-000NhE-8D for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 23:27:55 +0000 Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 7648DE06BF; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:27:54 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: [dnsext] RFC 5933 on Use of GOST Signature Algorithms in DNSKEY and RRSIG Resource Records for DNSSEC From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: <20100709232754.7648DE06BF@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5933 Title: Use of GOST Signature Algorithms in DNSKEY and RRSIG Resource Records for DNSSEC Author: V. Dolmatov, Ed., A. Chuprina, I. Ustinov Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: July 2010 Mailbox: dol@cryptocom.ru, ran@cryptocom.ru, igus@cryptocom.ru Pages: 9 Characters: 17657 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-gost-07.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5933.txt This document describes how to produce digital signatures and hash functions using the GOST R 34.10-2001 and GOST R 34.11-94 algorithms for DNSKEY, RRSIG, and DS resource records, for use in the Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC). [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the DNS Extensions Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 10 01:53:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9CF3A69D5 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -97%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -35.807 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.807 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=8.042, BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tJsB+dXmF39N for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 88-166-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net (88-166-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net [94.178.166.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 226533A6993 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -97% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100710085329.226533A6993@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 01:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 10 04:13:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3953A696D for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 04:13:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKbBWgkePuju for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 04:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 28-98-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net (28-98-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.132.98.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B7A633A691D for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 04:12:58 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site 50% OFF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100710111258.B7A633A691D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 04:12:58 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 10 08:13:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732733A67E7; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:13:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.052, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GAjW77O71pP4; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AB23A6407; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXbcO-000C27-Ng for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:05:28 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXbcL-000C1U-7R for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 15:05:25 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6AF5LCV013843; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:05:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-ID: <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 11:05:19 -0400 From: Olafur Gudmundsson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100512 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> In-Reply-To: <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.20.30.4 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 09/07/2010 6:04 PM, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:21:08AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> Dear colleagues, >> >> On 2010-07-06, there was a design team meeting in Bethesda, MD, to >> address the issue of setting the CD bit in the dnssec-bis-updates >> draft. David Blacka, Olafur Gudmundsson, Mike StJohns, and Andrew >> Sullivan attended. >> >> In the meeting, we concluded by describing three different models for >> how the CD bit is to be treated and used by a validating resolver >> (i.e. one that has at least one trust anchor), and what interaction >> this has with a local cache. We based these models on RFC 4035, on >> the discussion we saw on the list on this topic, and on what we think >> people have implemented. We want one, and only one, of these models >> to be described in the draft as the standard model. These models are >> outlined below. > > > so the We in the para above is the design team of > yourself, David, Olafur, and Mike. This does not meet > the WG criteria of "five" reviewers. This is orthogonal, design team can be of any size, the output of an design team can be one of: a proposal of way forward a list of options a comment on a particular design. a statement of failure to reach conclusion In this case we documented number of options and it is up to the working group to discuss which one of the options to prefer or to say that some/all will work together. The problem we have had in the past was that there was no concise crisp description of polices, MSJ as he came closest with his flow graph, and his graph inspired the table format. We are not making any claims that this is the complete space of policies and if there are other polices we hope that people put them forward in the same format. > > Perhaps the WG would like to weigh in on the recommendation > that the design team came up with, ie that only one of the > models be described as the "standard" model. Please, Please, Please. The design team (hopefully) worked on creating a framework for more productive discussion. > >> Please offer your thoughts on these models and state which of them you >> think should be in the draft as the way to handle the CD bit. We will >> devote some time in the Monday Maastricht session to this issue. We >> want to bring it to a close at that meeting. > > > I guess the questions I have, before proceeding down the selection > process is, Are there good reasons to use different models? (I can think > of reasons to use other interpretations, fwiw). Is there > a compelling reason to select only one model? If one is standard, > are the others still optional or will they be forbidden? If they > are to be forbidden, can we document why? > > --bill This is an excellent question, If I rephrase it: Will it hurt interoperability if different validators implement different models ? Sub-question: will it hurt deployment if different models are in use ? Olafur From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 10 13:43:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E743A687A; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4rWElBScLHPX; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70113A676A; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXgmj-000Kj9-SS for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:36:29 +0000 Received: from [131.112.32.132] (helo=necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXgmg-000KiY-WD for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:36:27 +0000 Received: (qmail 37379 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2010 21:07:01 -0000 Received: from softbank219178199025.bbtec.net (HELO ?192.168.11.11?) (219.178.199.25) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 10 Jul 2010 21:07:01 -0000 Message-ID: <4C38D983.2020607@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 05:35:15 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100512 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olafur Gudmundsson CC: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> In-Reply-To: <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > This is orthogonal, design team can be of any size, the output of an > design team can be one of: > a proposal of way forward > a list of options > a comment on a particular design. > a statement of failure to reach conclusion Then, you are biased from the beginning. An important output is: a proposal to stop and go backward or a lack of options or negative comments on all the available designs or a reached conclusion that the problem is unsolvable which should have been the output of many design teams. > In this case we documented number of options Many options is often equivalent to no options. Masataka Ohta From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 10 14:39:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C203A6896; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:39:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.930, BAYES_20=-0.74, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oDc2SjVrWz6E; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9903A689B; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXhhW-0000ov-5z for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:35:10 +0000 Received: from [2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe11:220a] (helo=vacation.karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXhhR-0000iF-Vz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:35:07 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o6ALXgV7026399; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:33:42 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id o6ALXg8L026398; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:33:42 GMT Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:33:42 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Olafur Gudmundsson Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit Message-ID: <20100710213342.GC22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 11:05:19AM -0400, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > On 09/07/2010 6:04 PM, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > >On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:21:08AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >>Dear colleagues, > >> > >>On 2010-07-06, there was a design team meeting in Bethesda, MD, to > >>address the issue of setting the CD bit in the dnssec-bis-updates > >>draft. David Blacka, Olafur Gudmundsson, Mike StJohns, and Andrew > >>Sullivan attended. > >> > >>In the meeting, we concluded by describing three different models for > >>how the CD bit is to be treated and used by a validating resolver > >>(i.e. one that has at least one trust anchor), and what interaction > >>this has with a local cache. We based these models on RFC 4035, on > >>the discussion we saw on the list on this topic, and on what we think > >>people have implemented. We want one, and only one, of these models > >>to be described in the draft as the standard model. These models are > >>outlined below. > > > > > > so the We in the para above is the design team of > > yourself, David, Olafur, and Mike. This does not meet > > the WG criteria of "five" reviewers. > > This is orthogonal, design team can be of any size, the output of an > design team can be one of: > a proposal of way forward > a list of options > a comment on a particular design. > a statement of failure to reach conclusion hum... this kind of makes the IETF WG process subject to capture, don't you think? According to you, a design team of one can make a statement about failure to reach conclusion... Thats a pretty low bar. that being said, this work was the result of just four people. > In this case we documented number of options and it is up to the working > group to discuss which one of the options to prefer or to say > that some/all will work together. except Andrew, as spokesperson for the design team cast a bias - not just the presentation of options with a request to the WG to come to consensus. To compound influence, there was an inferance that the WG chairs would close this topic by the next IETF... just 14 days. Is there a reason for the short suspense on this item and not with the other items on the WG agenda? > The problem we have had in the past was that there was no concise crisp > description of polices, MSJ as he came closest with his flow graph, > and his graph inspired the table format. Yup.. I really liked the flow graph. > We are not making any claims that this is the complete space of policies > and if there are other polices we hope that people put them forward in > the same format. 'Cept the intent to close discussion in 14 days... :) > > > > Perhaps the WG would like to weigh in on the recommendation > > that the design team came up with, ie that only one of the > > models be described as the "standard" model. > > Please, Please, Please. > The design team (hopefully) worked on creating a framework for more > productive discussion. Well, for what its worth, I can see use cases for at least two of the options that the DT produced. I would be sad if in its haste, the WG allowed a single option to be "fast-tracked" through. > >>Please offer your thoughts on these models and state which of them you > >>think should be in the draft as the way to handle the CD bit. We will > >>devote some time in the Monday Maastricht session to this issue. We > >>want to bring it to a close at that meeting. Unfortunately, I will not be at the meeting on Monday - I'll be in transit. So good luck and I hope the DT picked correctly. > > > > > > I guess the questions I have, before proceeding down the selection > > process is, Are there good reasons to use different models? (I can > > think > > of reasons to use other interpretations, fwiw). Is there > > a compelling reason to select only one model? If one is standard, > > are the others still optional or will they be forbidden? If they > > are to be forbidden, can we document why? > > > >--bill > > > This is an excellent question, > If I rephrase it: > Will it hurt interoperability if different validators implement > different models ? > Sub-question: will it hurt deployment if different models are in use ? > > Olafur From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 10 19:36:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1510D3A68E0; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:36:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.572 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.224, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zOp38QeY-VO6; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153863A659A; Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXmIf-000OKa-6c for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:29:49 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OXmIb-000OKE-VJ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:29:46 +0000 Received: from [172.16.33.105] (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 601F81ECB41F; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:29:43 +0000 (UTC) References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> <20100710213342.GC22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> In-Reply-To: <20100710213342.GC22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A293) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <245B9BED-F21A-4259-A649-0353D3248A20@shinkuro.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Olafur Gudmundsson , "bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com" , "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8A293) From: Andrew Sullivan Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:29:41 -0400 To: "bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com" Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-10, at 17:33, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 11:05:19AM -0400, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >> On 09/07/2010 6:04 PM, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:21:08AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>>=20 >>>> On 2010-07-06, there was a design team meeting in Bethesda, MD, to >>>> address the issue of setting the CD bit in the dnssec-bis-updates >>>> draft. David Blacka, Olafur Gudmundsson, Mike StJohns, and Andrew >>>> Sullivan attended. >>>>=20 >>>> In the meeting, we concluded by describing three different models for >>>> how the CD bit is to be treated and used by a validating resolver >>>> (i.e. one that has at least one trust anchor), and what interaction >>>> this has with a local cache. We based these models on RFC 4035, on >>>> the discussion we saw on the list on this topic, and on what we think >>>> people have implemented. We want one, and only one, of these models >>>> to be described in the draft as the standard model. These models are >>>> outlined below. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> so the We in the para above is the design team of >>> yourself, David, Olafur, and Mike. This does not meet >>> the WG criteria of "five" reviewers. >>=20 >> This is orthogonal, design team can be of any size, the output of an >> design team can be one of: >> a proposal of way forward >> a list of options >> a comment on a particular design. >> a statement of failure to reach conclusion >=20 > hum... this kind of makes the IETF WG process subject to capture, > don't you think? According to you, a design team of one can make > a statement about failure to reach conclusion... Thats a pretty=20 > low bar. To be clear, nobody is suggesting this is a WG product. If it were, we could= rule on consensus rather than discussing. But we brought this input to the W= G as our considered opinion.=20 > except Andrew, as spokesperson for the design team cast a=20 > bias - not just the presentation of options with a request > to the WG to come to consensus. =20 The report says that we want one option, that's true. I personally prefer th= at the WG coalesce around one because I think a completely indeterminate beh= avior on the part of intermediate resolvers would be very bad for user exper= ience. I'd be interested in counter arguments.=20 > To compound influence, there > was an inferance that the WG chairs would close this topic Actually, I don't think an inference was needed. And I didn't imply anything= . I stated that if the WG couldn't reach consensus, we could leave this topi= c out of the draft on the grounds that we have no consensus. That's not a th= reat; it's the chair's job to say such things. As it transpires, I believe n= ow that the tables are a significant enough improvement over the existing 40= 35 text that we should include them all if need be. But I see no reason why w= e cannot at least settle on a predictable default. A --=20 Andrew Sullivan = From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jul 11 01:59:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6995B3A67B5 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:59:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -81%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQaPEMlpP4oa for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 89-215-35-102.2072968542.ddns-lan.pl.ekk.bg (89-215-35-102.2072968542.ddns-lan.pl.ekk.bg [89.215.35.102]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DC873A67E9 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -81% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100711085924.1DC873A67E9@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:59:23 -0700 (PDT)
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From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jul 11 03:09:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1043A6984 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:09:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -98%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.878 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.878 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlanSDx8N7TB for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 231-240-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net (149-200-134-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.134.200.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 171443A698E for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:09:42 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -98% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100711100943.171443A698E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:09:42 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 11 20:30:35 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C1D3A68F5; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 20:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.656 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.493, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SKqceFgZ2+tm; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 20:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4313A6A4B; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 20:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OY9b1-0007Uw-PP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 03:22:19 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OY9ax-0007UW-Il for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 03:22:16 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:22:13 +0800 Message-ID: <478904933.01237@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:22:13 +0800 Message-ID: From: "Jiankang YAO" To: , "Olafur Gudmundsson" Cc: , References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> <20100709220459.GB22072@vacation.karoshi.com.> <4C388C2F.4030608@ogud.com> <478798608.29916@cnnic.cn> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:22:18 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogPGJtYW5uaW5nQHZhY2F0aW9u Lmthcm9zaGkuY29tPg0KVG86ICJPbGFmdXIgR3VkbXVuZHNzb24iIDxvZ3VkQG9ndWQuY29tPg0K Q2M6IDxibWFubmluZ0B2YWNhdGlvbi5rYXJvc2hpLmNvbT47IDxuYW1lZHJvcHBlcnNAb3BzLmll dGYub3JnPg0KU2VudDogU3VuZGF5LCBKdWx5IDExLCAyMDEwIDU6MzMgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBbZG5zZXh0XSBEZXNpZ24gdGVhbSByZXBvcnQgb24gZG5zc2VjLWJpcy11cGRhdGVzIGFuZCBD RCBiaXQNCg0KDQo+IE9uIFNhdCwgSnVsIDEwLCAyMDEwIGF0IDExOjA1OjE5QU0gLTA0MDAsIE9s YWZ1ciBHdWRtdW5kc3NvbiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IE9uIDA5LzA3LzIwMTAgNjowNCBQTSwgYm1hbm5p bmdAdmFjYXRpb24ua2Fyb3NoaS5jb20gd3JvdGU6DQo+PiA+T24gRnJpLCBKdWwgMDksIDIwMTAg YXQgMTA6MjE6MDhBTSAtMDQwMCwgQW5kcmV3IFN1bGxpdmFuIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gPj5EZWFyIGNv bGxlYWd1ZXMsDQo+PiA+Pg0KPj4gPj5PbiAyMDEwLTA3LTA2LCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgYSBkZXNpZ24g dGVhbSBtZWV0aW5nIGluIEJldGhlc2RhLCBNRCwgdG8NCj4+ID4+YWRkcmVzcyB0aGUgaXNzdWUg b2Ygc2V0dGluZyB0aGUgQ0QgYml0IGluIHRoZSBkbnNzZWMtYmlzLXVwZGF0ZXMNCj4+ID4+ZHJh ZnQuICBEYXZpZCBCbGFja2EsIE9sYWZ1ciBHdWRtdW5kc3NvbiwgTWlrZSBTdEpvaG5zLCBhbmQg QW5kcmV3DQo+PiA+PlN1bGxpdmFuIGF0dGVuZGVkLg0KPj4gPj4NCj4+ID4+SW4gdGhlIG1lZXRp bmcsIHdlIGNvbmNsdWRlZCBieSBkZXNjcmliaW5nIHRocmVlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBtb2RlbHMgZm9y DQo+PiA+PmhvdyB0aGUgQ0QgYml0IGlzIHRvIGJlIHRyZWF0ZWQgYW5kIHVzZWQgYnkgYSB2YWxp ZGF0aW5nIHJlc29sdmVyDQo+PiA+PihpLmUuIG9uZSB0aGF0IGhhcyBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbmUgdHJ1 c3QgYW5jaG9yKSwgYW5kIHdoYXQgaW50ZXJhY3Rpb24NCj4+ID4+dGhpcyBoYXMgd2l0aCBhIGxv Y2FsIGNhY2hlLiAgV2UgYmFzZWQgdGhlc2UgbW9kZWxzIG9uIFJGQyA0MDM1LCBvbg0KPj4gPj50 aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB3ZSBzYXcgb24gdGhlIGxpc3Qgb24gdGhpcyB0b3BpYywgYW5kIG9uIHdo YXQgd2UgdGhpbmsNCj4+ID4+cGVvcGxlIGhhdmUgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQuICBXZSB3YW50IG9uZSwg YW5kIG9ubHkgb25lLCBvZiB0aGVzZSBtb2RlbHMNCj4+ID4+dG8gYmUgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIHRo ZSBkcmFmdCBhcyB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgbW9kZWwuICBUaGVzZSBtb2RlbHMgYXJlDQo+PiA+Pm91 dGxpbmVkIGJlbG93Lg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPiBzbyB0aGUgV2UgaW4gdGhlIHBhcmEgYWJv dmUgaXMgdGhlIGRlc2lnbiB0ZWFtIG9mDQo+PiA+IHlvdXJzZWxmLCBEYXZpZCwgT2xhZnVyLCBh bmQgTWlrZS4gIFRoaXMgZG9lcyBub3QgbWVldA0KPj4gPiB0aGUgV0cgY3JpdGVyaWEgb2YgImZp dmUiIHJldmlld2Vycy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gVGhpcyBpcyBvcnRob2dvbmFsLCBkZXNpZ24gdGVhbSBj YW4gYmUgb2YgYW55IHNpemUsIHRoZSBvdXRwdXQgb2YgYW4NCj4+IGRlc2lnbiB0ZWFtIGNhbiBi ZSBvbmUgb2Y6DQo+PiBhIHByb3Bvc2FsIG9mIHdheSBmb3J3YXJkDQo+PiBhIGxpc3Qgb2Ygb3B0 aW9ucw0KPj4gYSBjb21tZW50IG9uIGEgcGFydGljdWxhciBkZXNpZ24uDQo+PiBhIHN0YXRlbWVu dCBvZiBmYWlsdXJlIHRvIHJlYWNoIGNvbmNsdXNpb24NCj4gDQo+IGh1bS4uLiB0aGlzIGtpbmQg b2YgbWFrZXMgdGhlIElFVEYgV0cgcHJvY2VzcyBzdWJqZWN0IHRvIGNhcHR1cmUsDQo+IGRvbid0 IHlvdSB0aGluaz8gIEFjY29yZGluZyB0byB5b3UsIGEgZGVzaWduIHRlYW0gb2Ygb25lIGNhbiBt YWtlDQo+IGEgc3RhdGVtZW50IGFib3V0IGZhaWx1cmUgdG8gcmVhY2ggY29uY2x1c2lvbi4uLiAg VGhhdHMgYSBwcmV0dHkgDQo+IGxvdyBiYXIuDQo+IA0KPiB0aGF0IGJlaW5nIHNhaWQsIHRoaXMg d29yayB3YXMgdGhlIHJlc3VsdCBvZiBqdXN0IGZvdXIgcGVvcGxlLg0KPiANCg0KYW55IHByb3Bv c2FsIG9yIGNvbmNsdXNpb24gb3Igc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBv ciA0LXBlb3BsZSBncm91cCBvciBkZXNpZ24gdGVhbSBtdXN0IGJlIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBvciBhcHBy b3ZlZCBieSB0aGUgV0cuDQp3aXRob3V0IHRoZSBXRyBhcHByb3ZhbCwgdGhlIGRlc2lnbiB0ZWFt IHJlcG9ydCBvciBjb25jbHVzaW9uIHdpbGwgbm90IGJlIGEgd2cgY29uY2x1c2lvbi4NClRoaXMg IERlc2lnbiB0ZWFtIHJlcG9ydCBpcyBqdXN0IGEgcmVwb3J0LCBub3QgYSB3ZyBjb25jbHVzaW9u LiBzbyB5b3UgZG9uJ3Qgd29ycnkgInRoaXMga2luZCBvZiBtYWtlcyB0aGUgSUVURiBXRyBwcm9j ZXNzIHN1YmplY3QgdG8gY2FwdHVyZSIuDQpTaW5jZSB0aGVzZSBmb3VyIHBlb3BsZSBzYWNyaWZp Y2VkIHRoZWlyIG93biB0aW1lIHRvIGRpc2N1c3MgdGhlIGlzc3VlIGFuZCBwcm9kdWNlIGEgcmVw b3J0LCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgZW5jb3VyYWdlIHRoZW0gdG8gZG8gc28uDQpJZiBvdXIgV0cgZGlzY3Vz c2lvbiBiYXNlZCBvbiB0aGVpciByZXBvcnQsIG91ciB3ZyB3aWxsIG1vdmUgZmFzdGVyLg0Kc28g SSB0aGluayB0aGF0LCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgdGhhbmsgdGhlc2UgZm91ciBwZW9wbGUgZm9yIHRoZWly IGhhcmQgd29yay4NCg0KSmlhbmthbmcgWWFvDQoNCg0K From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 11 22:06:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E073A6816; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 22:06:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h-cTE+hKINKg; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 22:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7243A68A0; Sun, 11 Jul 2010 22:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYB7V-000GBr-42 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:59:57 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:36::28] (helo=white.flame.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYB7R-000GBT-U5 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:59:54 +0000 Received: from white.flame.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by white.flame.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4117417D1EB; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:59:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whitedragon.local (unknown [209.236.250.213]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by white.flame.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4339817D1E8; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:59:50 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4C3AA142.1030304@isc.org> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 23:59:46 -0500 From: Michael Graff User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 7/9/10 9:21 AM, Andrew Su > Please offer your thoughts on these models and state which of them you > think should be in the draft as the way to handle the CD bit. We will > devote some time in the Monday Maastricht session to this issue. We > want to bring it to a close at that meeting. I may make some sense to list the behaviors of the common resolvers, and define what problems we're trying to fix by selectively setting the CD=1 flag. There was mention that there was lack of agreement, but no reasons (pros, cons) for the various choices really. Please also note that you might not know that you have a covering TA for the name in question in all cases, specifically DLV or when learning about the existence of DNSSEC does not start from the parent and move into the child, but moves the other way. Which some resolvers implement. Also, just because a query did not have CD set, it does not mean the next one won't, and I believe it's against the RFCs to query for RRSIG or NXT records. This would mean more queries, and to be safe, probably two caches in the resolver, one for CD=1 and one for CD=0. --Michael From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 03:21:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313843A68F9; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 03:21:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.111 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W6b6s9RzVgZo; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 03:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B163A6828; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 03:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYG1N-0000GI-Md for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:13:57 +0000 Received: from [2001:7b8:206:1::1] (helo=open.nlnetlabs.nl) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYG1K-0000FW-F7 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:13:54 +0000 Received: from gary.nlnetlabs.nl (gary.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:216:76ff:feb8:1853]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6CADbvj054096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:13:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wouter@nlnetlabs.nl) Message-ID: <4C3AEAD1.3070308@nlnetlabs.nl> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:13:37 +0200 From: "W.C.A. Wijngaards" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100621 Fedora/3.0.5-1.fc13 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Graff CC: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> <4C3AA142.1030304@isc.org> In-Reply-To: <4C3AA142.1030304@isc.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:13:38 +0200 (CEST) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I sort of agree with Michael and George, that there are multiple options, this seems to be a list of what local-policy a resolver could implement. What a CD flag does works fine: the upstream either gives the unaltered, unabridged data or does "funky policy" on it. Below I attempt to list some pros and cons. * After root key deployment, it is likely that if a trust anchor is in place, it is the root key. Thus everything falls under the trust anchor. And the tables are not useful in that case. * CD=1 in general makes debugging DNSSEC easier. This for the question 'help or hinder DNSSEC deployment'. * intelligence at the end points. CD=1 makes sure that the end point is doin' the do, and I think we ought to promote that principle. * Seems that the current implementations all set CD=1, but I could be mistaken. * If you want to improve current implementations, 'CD=1 cache MAY be validated in order to attempt to not cache nonvalidatable data', so using its trust anchors simply to attempt to flush bogus data out of the cache (but not refusing to serve contents). * The only case I can think of that has 'cooperating validators with different trust anchors' in today's dnssec deployment is a firm that has a local DNS zone signed, and also uses an upstream ISP cache. But it would be trivial to add the public internet trust anchor to the firm's validators? Therefore I think the always-set is simpler. I think these tables are not appropriate in dnssec-bis-updates. Best regards, Wouter On 07/12/2010 06:59 AM, Michael Graff wrote: > On 7/9/10 9:21 AM, Andrew Su >> Please offer your thoughts on these models and state which of them you >> think should be in the draft as the way to handle the CD bit. We will >> devote some time in the Monday Maastricht session to this issue. We >> want to bring it to a close at that meeting. > > I may make some sense to list the behaviors of the common resolvers, and > define what problems we're trying to fix by selectively setting the CD=1 > flag. There was mention that there was lack of agreement, but no > reasons (pros, cons) for the various choices really. > > Please also note that you might not know that you have a covering TA for > the name in question in all cases, specifically DLV or when learning > about the existence of DNSSEC does not start from the parent and move > into the child, but moves the other way. Which some resolvers implement. > > Also, just because a query did not have CD set, it does not mean the > next one won't, and I believe it's against the RFCs to query for RRSIG > or NXT records. This would mean more queries, and to be safe, probably > two caches in the resolver, one for CD=1 and one for CD=0. > > > --Michael -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkw66tEACgkQkDLqNwOhpPjU2ACgpIqrfC0isYDpifB129MNak/7 rQkAn1opEjylLQhzK+ofL1E3F6lOq7cx =jhgI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 09:23:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC773A69CA; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:23:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.634 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.634 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Enfn+sLo2DBR; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DE13A6897; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYLfm-0003nm-Bn for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:16:02 +0000 Received: from [130.39.6.157] (helo=relay002.lsu.edu) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYLfb-0003mj-EK for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:15:52 +0000 Received: from lsu.edu (nir-stealth.lsu.edu [130.39.193.41]) (authenticated bits=0) by relay002.lsu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6CGFlaX017130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:15:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:15:47 -0500 From: Anthony Iliopoulos To: Andrew Sullivan Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit Message-ID: <20100712161547.GE20290@lsu.edu> References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.1 at relay002.lsu.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Greetings all, Just some thoughts that might help stir further discussion.. On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 10:21:08AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Model 1: "always set" > > This model is so named because the validating resolver sets the CD bit > on queries it makes regardless of whether it has a covering trust > anchor for the query. The general philosophy represented by this > table is that only one resolver should be responsible for validation > irrespective of the possibility that an upstream resolver may be > present and with TAs that cover different or additional QNAMEs. This is a sane expectation (one resolver being responsible for the validation, and only *that* resolver). Given that there has been some desire for pushing the entire validation to the stub, this model has no surprise factor. I assume that the counterargument here is, why would a validating resolver ever set the CD flag on upstream queries when it is missing any covering TA for the QNAME ? Expectation for consistent (validation, resolution) behavior, and enforcement of policy. If a stub trusts a resolver/forwarder, it also trusts its local policy, i.e. the set of configured TAs, and any kind of validation restrictions. > Model 2: "never set" > > This model is so named because it sets CD=0 on upstream queries for > all received CD=0 queries even if it has a covering trust anchor. > ("Never" is really too strong: obviously, if the query arrives at the > resolver with CD=1, it must set CD when it performs the query as well.) > The general philosophy represented by this table is that more than one > resolver may take responsibility for validating a QNAME and that a > validation failure for a QNAME by any resolver in the chain is a > validation failure for the query. This option places blind trust in all the intermediate validators. It's a kind of "opportunistic" dnssec, in a sense. It's pushing the validation away from the stub too, in a non-deterministic manner. > Model 3: "sometimes set" > > This model is so named because it sets the CD bit on upstream queries > triggered by received CD=0 queries based on whether the validator has > a TA configured that covers the query. If there is no covering TA, > the resolver clears the CD bit in the upstream query. If there is a > covering TA, it sets CD=1 and performs validation itself. The general > philosophy represented by this table is that a resolver should try and > validate QNAMEs for which is has trust anchors and should not preclude > validation by other resolvers for QNAMEs for which it does not have > covering trust anchors. It really looks like this is a policy issue. The real question here is, should the standards offer flexibility or enforce one of the above models ? What are the implications of not officially settling with a single model ? Under which scenario would it be desired to have more than one validators between a stub and the authoritatives, configured with a differing set of policies ? (assuming these validators are under the same domain of control) What if the validators are *not* governed by the same policy, and are under control of separate parties ? Would then models 2,3 be acceptable at all (i.e. rely on an unknown or disagreeing 3rd party policy for validation) rather than simply comply with the local policy (and fail resolution if the local policy leads to it, isn't that the purpose of a policy, especially when this is a security-related protocol ?) Models 2,3 can lead to some "unexpected" conditions. What if one of the upstream intermediate validators has a stricter policy than the "local" validator ? What about when it has a more liberal policy ? In general, since there are no protocol means of communicating TA configuration and validation policies between validators, aren't models 2 and 3 placing more faith than they should on their upstreams ? Would it even make sense or would there be any benefit to have any kind of trust relationship protocol between validators ? Models 2 and 3 appear to be implicitly "forcing" stubs to transitively trust all of the upstream validators (and their respective policies). I would generally support Model 1, that is, push all validation as closest to the stub as possible (or to the closest validator to the querier). Ensure that the DNSSEC security material is propagated intact from the authoritative back to the first validator under *all* conditions (models 2,3 can obviously prevent that). Regards, Anthony From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 12:19:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF17B3A69DC; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:19:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZCqdlEDR7sVX; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F07E3A69FA; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYOSe-0001jB-SW for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:14:41 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYOSc-0001ir-0z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:14:38 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5D3A1021 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:14:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] CD=1 RD=1 response content X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:14:37 +0000 Message-ID: <38816.1278962077@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: i have no dog in the CD=1 race. when it's set, when it's cleared, or whether to maintain a separate cache for it, are questions i'm not interested in and i expect to be equally happy no matter how that thread resolves. however, i'm interested in stub validation, which relies on CD=1 in the "last mile" (toward the stub), and after discussing this with dan kaminsky i've come to realize that the response content for CD=1 RD=1 leaves a lot to be desired. basically we need the full chain, not just the RRSIGs for the answer. to do stub validation with a limited cache and only the root TA under control of an RFC 5011 monitor of some kind, we're currently facing a serious performance challenge iterating all the way back to the root. some of you have heard me complain about this before, and recently i saw a proposal here that we add signalling for this including a "TA" field so that the responder would know how much of the chain the requestor needed. i now think that no new signalling is needed. RD=1 CD=1 can be redefined to do what we need here, without invalidating any existing DNSSEC endpoint. if RD=1 CD=1 responders would add the full RRSIG/DNSKEY/DS chain, deepest first, to the additional data section of the response, then requestors would have the option of specifying a very large EDNS0 buffer size and getting it all. responders in this case would never set TC=1 since if there was an overflow it would be in the additional data section and would be unrelated to the answer. (obviously the RRsets would still be atomic.) this *cannot* break any existing RD=1 CD=1 requestors, who must be looking at owner/class/type when processing additional data sections, and who must already be prepared to ignore things they weren't specifically programmed for. i can imagine a stub validator someday trying TCP first, or using an EDNS0 buffer size of 32KB or 48KB, just to increase the chances of not having to iterate backward along the RRSIG/DNSKEY/DS chain. recursive servers can be placed close to clients and provisioned accordingly, to avoid WAN problems like dropped IP fragments or overloaded TCP PCB tables. if we do stub validation through iteration, then only a change to the speed of light can restore or improve performance, due to the increased number of RTT's. if there's general agreement about this, i'll write up an I-D on the topic. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 13:04:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 818623A6B93; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:04:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4hwgMfuuoA48; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24AAD3A67F7; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYPAm-00073s-VZ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:00:17 +0000 Received: from [209.85.161.180] (helo=mail-gx0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYPAj-00073N-Gg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:00:13 +0000 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22so4599290gxk.11 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:00:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=OBGp1kMROCpdNf3CH2vRE22xQu0KX2YBZxLAHfS77hs=; b=Hp0RQl/5HK4TYf1BV+3zFReOYsmNmBFF1Na8Kow4Kq9Y0oXpH1K4cAGfT7+Pz1t7lW R3EOim8YIEx28sNn+//ZOt8gNyBE0DuRpGI3DnTcrsh+7/xb+QxBT1kqkmzJQGK6m+qq 7IzJpylKvFR9/9860HSpAhnYWNzs3269O9++w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=QIpjfV3+zqJ9qX8/DnhgF0ECHStcQrfbSZZg42fb5mv39jNajdxh23uTt18sXF6J+q Pajt/5Iu+4PW1RZhu2Fa+u4UIZXKkCmurFCuIi7Bv1xEmADrkJrYbfkCCNvfI8BlpX11 xvdMSuOB0VcK18DgWisCPqqhXxxZzzjCJs27I= Received: by 10.151.4.11 with SMTP id g11mr5493563ybi.262.1278964812128; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [164.107.182.226] ([164.107.182.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h8sm21119014ibk.15.2010.07.12.13.00.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [dnsext] CD=1 RD=1 response content Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Nicholas Weaver In-Reply-To: <38816.1278962077@nsa.vix.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:00:08 -0400 Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <38816.1278962077@nsa.vix.com> To: Paul Vixie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I think its an excellent idea with a couple of caveats: A stub resolver SHOULD validate that it can receive fragments from the = resolver: Whenever it gets a new IP, it should have a very fast failover to EDNS0 = MTU =3D 1400B on timeout (less than a second), to allow it to quickly = determine whether the stub can receive fragments or not, and if it = determines it can't receive fragments, shift its default EDNS MTU to = 1400B, otherwise RD=3D1 CD=3D1 will cause VERY long (3 second+) = timeouts. Also, I disagree on not setting TC. TC should be set, because that = means that a requery over TCP will get more records, and such a query = will almost certainly be faster than walking the signature chain = manually. On Jul 12, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Paul Vixie wrote: > i have no dog in the CD=3D1 race. when it's set, when it's cleared, = or whether > to maintain a separate cache for it, are questions i'm not interested = in and > i expect to be equally happy no matter how that thread resolves. = however, i'm > interested in stub validation, which relies on CD=3D1 in the "last = mile" (toward > the stub), and after discussing this with dan kaminsky i've come to = realize > that the response content for CD=3D1 RD=3D1 leaves a lot to be = desired. >=20 > basically we need the full chain, not just the RRSIGs for the answer. = to do > stub validation with a limited cache and only the root TA under = control of an > RFC 5011 monitor of some kind, we're currently facing a serious = performance > challenge iterating all the way back to the root. some of you have = heard me > complain about this before, and recently i saw a proposal here that we = add > signalling for this including a "TA" field so that the responder would = know > how much of the chain the requestor needed. i now think that no new > signalling is needed. RD=3D1 CD=3D1 can be redefined to do what we = need here, > without invalidating any existing DNSSEC endpoint. >=20 > if RD=3D1 CD=3D1 responders would add the full RRSIG/DNSKEY/DS chain, = deepest > first, to the additional data section of the response, then requestors > would have the option of specifying a very large EDNS0 buffer size and > getting it all. responders in this case would never set TC=3D1 since = if > there was an overflow it would be in the additional data section and = would > be unrelated to the answer. (obviously the RRsets would still be = atomic.) >=20 > this *cannot* break any existing RD=3D1 CD=3D1 requestors, who must be = looking > at owner/class/type when processing additional data sections, and who = must > already be prepared to ignore things they weren't specifically = programmed > for. >=20 > i can imagine a stub validator someday trying TCP first, or using an = EDNS0 > buffer size of 32KB or 48KB, just to increase the chances of not = having to > iterate backward along the RRSIG/DNSKEY/DS chain. recursive servers = can be > placed close to clients and provisioned accordingly, to avoid WAN = problems > like dropped IP fragments or overloaded TCP PCB tables. if we do stub > validation through iteration, then only a change to the speed of light = can > restore or improve performance, due to the increased number of RTT's. >=20 > if there's general agreement about this, i'll write up an I-D on the = topic. >=20 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 14:17:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2533A6B87; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:17:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.297 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.302, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rG8uWb46RBu6; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DF3A3A6C90; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYQGi-000GrI-PF for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:10:28 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYQGg-000Gqx-9j for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:10:26 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB385A1021 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:10:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] CD=1 RD=1 response content In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:00:08 -0400." References: <38816.1278962077@nsa.vix.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:10:25 +0000 Message-ID: <45334.1278969025@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > From: Nicholas Weaver > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:00:08 -0400 > > I think its an excellent idea with a couple of caveats: > > A stub resolver SHOULD validate that it can receive fragments from the > resolver: > > Whenever it gets a new IP, it should have a very fast failover to EDNS0 > MTU = 1400B on timeout (less than a second), to allow it to quickly > determine whether the stub can receive fragments or not, and if it > determines it can't receive fragments, shift its default EDNS MTU to > 1400B, otherwise RD=1 CD=1 will cause VERY long (3 second+) timeouts. this seems like general advice for edns buffer sizes over some limit, where if that limit was 1400 then we're asking for changes to the installed base, and if it's 4096 then we're not addressing your concern at all. i suggest that this advice be discussed within the RFC2671bis effort rather than as a specific RD=1 CD=1 issue. > Also, I disagree on not setting TC. TC should be set, because that means > that a requery over TCP will get more records, and such a query will > almost certainly be faster than walking the signature chain manually. but that would redefine TC. i don't want to muck with the meaning of TC at all. the rule is, if the thing that won't fit is additional data, it's up to the requestor to decide whether to retry with TCP (or EDNS with a larger buffer size). making TC mean something different for RD=1 CD=1 would scare me a bit, not just because of the length and breadth and depth of the discussion we'd have to have here in DNSEXT, but in the QA that would be required by implementors to catch this particular version of "meaning of TC". From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 19:20:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D94F3A68B7; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 96I1DwSkoP-X; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F35A3A6844; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYUzD-000LZD-UG for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 02:12:43 +0000 Received: from [131.112.32.132] (helo=necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYUz9-000LY3-ES for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 02:12:39 +0000 Received: (qmail 62352 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2010 02:43:53 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188004.bbtec.net (HELO ?192.168.1.21?) (219.1.188.4) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 13 Jul 2010 02:43:53 -0000 Message-ID: <4C3BCB5A.2070506@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:11:38 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100512 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Extended ID or ask again References: <38816.1278962077@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <38816.1278962077@nsa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Paul Vixie wrote: > however, i'm > interested in stub validation, which relies on CD=1 in the "last mile" (toward > the stub), and after discussing this with dan kaminsky i've come to realize > that the response content for CD=1 RD=1 leaves a lot to be desired. What if, there are middle boxes? Isn't it better to introduce extended ID (DNS-0x20, XQID or whatever, though I personally recommend a new RR type in additional sections of queries, which should be copied to answers) than to tweak DNSSEC for decades and wait additional several aeons expecting all the existing and new middle boxes adopt for it? Meanwhile, resolvers can ask name servers without extended ID twice with different IDs to confirm that the answers are same (or three or four times to confirm that the answers are randomized for load balancing, which means answers should not be cached, which means these is no cache poisoning and extra load of which should motivate related name server operators adopt extended ID). Caching middle boxes may still merge the two queries with two IDs into one with one ID but do not cause more serious problem than with DNSSEC. Masataka Ohta From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 12 23:45:38 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9366E3A68A5; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.775, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3MhtgbsEiC6E; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18883A6875; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYZ6Q-000N1N-Ek for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:36:26 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYZ6L-000N0X-DI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:36:24 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:36:19 +0800 Message-ID: <479002979.11016@cnnic.cn> Received: from 218.241.111.16 by mail.cnnic.cn with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:36:19 +0800 X-WebMAIL-MUA: [218.241.111.16] From: "KONG Ning" To: dnsop@ietf.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:36:19 +0800 Reply-To: "KONG Ning" X-Priority: 3 Subject: [dnsext] An Automated Synchronization Mechanism for Configuration Data of DNS (Domain Name System) Name Serve Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Hi everyone, I finished a draft to propose an automated synchronization mechanism for configuration data of DNS name servers. My apologies for cross-posting, coz I'm not sure which WG is more suitable for this draft. Any comments are welcomed! Best Regards, Ning A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : An Automated Synchronization Mechanism for Configuration Data of DNS (Domain Name System) Name Servers Author(s) : N. Kong, et al. Filename : draft-kong-dns-conf-auto-sync-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2010-07-12 This document proposes an in-band synchronization mechanism to automatically synchronize configuration data among multiple DNS (Domain Name System) name servers. Using this mechanism, any part of configuration data of a name server can be constructed as a similar DNS zone file, and be automatically synchronized by DNS messaging and notifying mechanisms. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kong-dns-conf-auto-sync-01.txt From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 13 07:27:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6873A6A50; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:27:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.68 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.68 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FZFauTB-MGDP; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0543A6A4E; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYgIx-000D2i-0A for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:17:51 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYgIt-000D2J-95 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:17:47 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22F311ECB41F for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:17:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:17:43 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] [chair@ietf.org: DNSSEC Contributors] Message-ID: <20100713141742.GC76510@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Dear colleagues, There are obviously many participants in this WG who qualify. I encourage you to stand up and be counted! Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32] verified) by execdsl.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 18751048 for ajs@shinkuro.com; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:39:33 -0600 Received-SPF: pass receiver=execdsl.com; client-ip=64.170.98.32; envelope-from=ietf-bounces@ietf.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1E03A6D5A; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:37:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1973A6D43; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.930, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x++NJ3FXNIa3; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [64.170.98.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69193A6D2C; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c1a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F6EE08C5; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:36:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c1a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c1a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8V-VwxDnrFR9; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (pool-96-241-163-123.washdc.fios.verizon.net [96.241.163.123]) by c1a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F70AE07FA; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4C3BA6D7.4030802@ietf.org> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:35:51 -0400 From: IETF Chair User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100512 Thunderbird/3.0.5 To: IETF , IETF Announce Subject: DNSSEC Contributors X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: IETF List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 We are collecting names of individuals from the IETF community who have contributed to DNSSEC. The goal is to display these names at IETF 78 during a celebration of DNSSEC deployment. A Wiki page to facilitate the collection of the relevant names has been established at: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/sec/trac/wiki/DNSSEC/Contributors Please add your name if you contributed to the DNSSEC effort. Also, please add the name of others that contributed if you see they are missing. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB229F.8A53E710-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 13 10:04:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476A83A6A8A; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:04:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.652 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.652 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.252, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IOicfaZzoe1s; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284693A6A5C; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYinG-000Ap3-V9 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:57:18 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYinD-000AoD-44 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:57:15 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF5BD1ECB41F for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:57:12 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:57:11 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] [chair@ietf.org: DNSSEC Contributors] Message-ID: <20100713165711.GH76510@shinkuro.com> References: <20100713141742.GC76510@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100713141742.GC76510@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:17:43AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > There are obviously many participants in this WG who qualify. I > encourage you to stand up and be counted! Note that this was an encouragement to edit the wiki. Like other wikis, I think it's supposed to be open to editing. I've had at least one report that someone couldn't. I'm chasing that down. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 13 12:06:44 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81013A69C5; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:06:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.229, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qqXbEQafTx9k; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262593A69B9; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYkgI-0002Uz-WB for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:58:15 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYkgG-0002UX-8f for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:58:12 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC7BE1ECB41F for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:58:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:58:07 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] [chair@ietf.org: DNSSEC Contributors] Message-ID: <20100713185806.GK76510@shinkuro.com> References: <20100713141742.GC76510@shinkuro.com> <20100713165711.GH76510@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100713165711.GH76510@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:57:11PM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > wikis, I think it's supposed to be open to editing. I've had at least > one report that someone couldn't. I'm chasing that down. Dave Crocker tells me that what's needed is an IETF tools page login. This feels right to me, since that's how I've managed to get in. As far as I know, anyone can set one up from http://trac.tools.ietf.org/newlogin. Thanks, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. 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look upon


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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB22C3.B8549870-- --===============1686654576==-- From dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 13 12:45:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69913A6B63 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The results of your email commands From: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0127166406==" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:45:17 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: dnsop-bounces@ietf.org --===============0127166406== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your original message. - Results: Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts - Unprocessed: al aging process, along with the bodily stress of maternity, by supplementi= ng elasticity.Nutritional facts:Collagen that serves as firming and anti-wr= inkle agentVitamin E for breast skin hydrationPrevent darken spots like fre= ckles with flora essenceSoy content that promotes bone density and breastsR= elief and ease menopause symptomslook uponResults achieved by happy custome= rs:Increment of bust size from 30A to 32BFirmer and more toned breasts from= 34B to 34CPinkish nipples and fairer breast skinMenopausal customers exper= ience more vaginal secretionLesser hot flushes and relief of menstrual symp= tomsOrder Right Now! - Done. --===============0127166406== Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dnsop-request@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: dnsop-request@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F3003A6B48; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:45:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -30.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-30.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bwrPl6fvHDg1; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201009021013.user.veloxzone.com.br (201009021013.user.veloxzone.com.br [201.9.21.13]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5B43A69DB; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201.9.21.13 by mx-del1-1.globallogic.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:43:51 -0300 Message-ID: <000d01cb22c3$b8549870$6400a8c0@urbanizedrg3> From: To: Subject: Increment of bust size from 30A to 32B Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:43:51 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB22C3.B8549870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB22C3.B8549870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Breast Enhancement Work by replenishing adverse elements, such as the natur= al aging process, along with the bodily stress of maternity, by supplementi= ng elasticity.Nutritional facts:Collagen that serves as firming and anti-wr= inkle agentVitamin E for breast skin hydrationPrevent darken spots like fre= ckles with flora essenceSoy content that promotes bone density and breastsR= elief and ease menopause symptomslook uponResults achieved by happy custome= rs:Increment of bust size from 30A to 32BFirmer and more toned breasts from= 34B to 34CPinkish nipples and fairer breast skinMenopausal customers exper= ience more vaginal secretionLesser hot flushes and relief of menstrual symp= tomsOrder Right Now! ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB22C3.B8549870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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= Nutritional facts:

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  • Vitamin E for breast skin hydra= tion
  • Prevent darken = spots like freckles with flora essence
  • Soy content that promotes bone density and breasts
    • <= li style=3D"color: #B6052D; font-family: Verdana">Relief and ease menopause= symptoms

look upon


Results achieved by happy customers:

  • Increment of bust size from 3= 0A to 32B
  • Firmer and= more toned breasts from 34B to 34C
  • Pinkish nipples and fairer breast skin
  • Menopausal customers experience more vag= inal secretion
  • Lesse= r hot flushes and relief of menstrual symptoms

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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB22C3.B8549870-- --===============0127166406==-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 13 13:25:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631243A6A45; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:25:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P5S3T05U2Qiy; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19CAC3A6A40; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYlvV-000Dap-Gw for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:18:01 +0000 Received: from [2001:1890:1112:1::20] (helo=mail.ietf.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OYlvQ-000DaL-6x for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:17:56 +0000 Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id C40D53A6A6D; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:17:45 -0700 (PDT) X-idtracker: yes From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , dnsext mailing list , dnsext chair Subject: [dnsext] Protocol Action: 'DNS Transport over TCP - Implementation Requirements' to Proposed Standard Message-Id: <20100713201745.C40D53A6A6D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:17:45 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: The IESG has approved the following document: - 'DNS Transport over TCP - Implementation Requirements ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the DNS Extensions Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ralph Droms and Jari Arkko. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements-03.txt Technical Summary This document expresses in clearly that general purpose DNS software needs to be able to to perform DNS queries over TCP. Working Group Summary The discussion in the working centered on following issues: * Is TCP required for some queries: Answer in general yes * How should TCP connections be handled: The document states that DNS servers can terminate open TCP connections when they want/need to. * Is the document requiring DNS operators to provide TCP query service: No. Such specification is outside the working group's scope and it is a decision for each DNS Operator. Document Quality The document is well written and expresses the issues clearly. The actions are clearly marked and the text that is being updated is quoted. Personnel Olafur Gudmundsson (ogud@ogud.com) is the document shepherd. Ralph Droms is the responsible AD. RFC Editor Note Changes to be made before publication: Section 1: OLD: Most DNS [RFC1035] transactions take place over UDP [RFC0768]. TCP NEW: Most DNS [RFC1034] transactions take place over UDP [RFC0768]. TCP Section 4: OLD: o Authoritative server implementations MUST support TCP so that they do not limit the size of responses. o Recursive resolver (or forwarder) implementations MUST support TCP so that the do not prevent large responses from a TCP-capable server from reaching its TCP-capable clients. o Stub resolver implementations (e.g. an operating system's DNS resolution library) MUST support TCP since to do otherwise would limit their interoperability with their own clients and with upstream servers. An exception may be made for proprietary stub resolver implementations. These MAY omit support for TCP if operating in an environment where truncation can never occur, or where DNS lookup failure is acceptable should truncation occur. Regarding the choice of when to use UDP or TCP, RFC 1123 says: ... a DNS resolver or server that is sending a non-zone-transfer query MUST send a UDP query first. NEW: o Authoritative server implementations MUST support TCP so that they do not limit the size of responses to what fits in a single UDP packet. o Recursive server (or forwarder) implementations MUST support TCP so that they do not prevent large responses from a TCP-capable server from reaching its TCP-capable clients. o Stub resolver implementations (e.g. an operating system's DNS resolution library) MUST support TCP since to do otherwise would limit their interoperability with their own clients and with upstream servers. Stub resolver implementations MAY omit support for TCP when specifically designed for deployment in restricted environments where truncation can never occur or where truncated DNS responses are acceptable. Regarding the choice of when to use UDP or TCP, Section 6.1.3.2 of RFC 1123 also says: ... a DNS resolver or server that is sending a non-zone-transfer query MUST send a UDP query first. Section 5: OLD: This document therefore RECOMMENDS that the default application-level idle period should be of the order of seconds, but does not specify any particular value. In practise the idle period may vary dynamically, and servers MAY allow dormant connections to remain open for longer periods as resources permit. NEW: It is therefore RECOMMENDED that the default application-level idle period should be of the order of seconds, but no particular value is specified. In practise the idle period may vary dynamically, and servers MAY allow dormant connections to remain open for longer periods as resources permit. Section 9: OLD: The author would like to thank the document reviewers from the DNSEXT Working Group, and in particular George Barwood, Alex Bligh, Alfred Hoenes, Fernando Gont, Jim Reid, Paul Vixie and Nicholas Weaver. NEW: The author would like to thank the document reviewers from the DNSEXT Working Group, and in particular George Barwood, Alex Bligh, Alfred Hoenes, Fernando Gont, Olafur Gudmondsson, Jim Reid, Paul Vixie and Nicholas Weaver. Section 10.1: OLD: [RFC0793] Postel, J., "Transmission Control Protocol", STD 7, RFC 793, September 1981. [RFC1035] Mockapetris, P., "Domain names - implementation and specification", STD 13, RFC 1035, November 1987. NEW: [RFC0793] Postel, J., "Transmission Control Protocol", STD 7, RFC 793, September 1981. [RFC1034] Mockapetris, P., "Domain names - concepts and facilities", STD 13, RFC 1034, November 1987. [RFC1035] Mockapetris, P., "Domain names - implementation and specification", STD 13, RFC 1035, November 1987. 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 15 17:52:34 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8254F3A681D; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:52:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.393 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.393 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SKZhOcK8nTGN; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7903A6807; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OZZ2J-000OmG-C5 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:44:19 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:0:2::2b] (helo=mx.pao1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OZZ2F-000Olz-J8 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:44:15 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E631C9421 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:44:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id 0CAD7E60BC; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:44:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:44:04 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution Re: [dnsext] DNSEXT sessions at IETF 78 Message-ID: <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> References: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 09:24:14PM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > The other session is a one hour session aimed just at the topic of > aliasing, and in particular at gathering more requirements, > objections, corner cases, worries, and so on about this topic. It is > primarily aimed at requirements gathering, which means that any > telling anyone what is simply impossible in the DNS won't be allowed. > The point is not, in this session, to say what we can or can't do, but > to try to get straight as much as possible all the issues that people > have with aliasing, what doesn't work, what does, what current > behaviour people rely on, and so on. In the interests of moving the "aliasing" discussion forward, see: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution/ The -00 draft was the work of Jiankang Yao and Xiaodong Lee, to which I added a bunch of stuff taken from the namedroppers archives and the discussions we've already had. The document is just a beginning but is intended to be the place where this requirements-gathering exercise is archived; ultimately it will either explain why we're doing whatever work the WG takes on in this area, or explain why we decided there's nothing that DNSEXT can usefully do. Questions: 1. What else does it need, besides more specific use cases? 2. Should it be a WG document? It currently isn't, and I'll be asking that it be adopted. 3. The -01 draft plays fast and loose with a great deal of terminology; we don't have good terminology for the analysis we need to do here. How do we get to a more rigorous agreed-upon vocabulary for talking about these issues? 4. Other concerns? Suzanne From mariagordon@lotto649.ca Thu Jul 15 19:15:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83B33A69EF; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.26 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.339, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vA3iCPZ4MmIX; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.interbgc.com (ppp122.interbgc.com [217.9.224.122]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913553A67EE; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:15:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p2.interbgc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.interbgc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8287C17CA2E; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:15:44 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at interbgc.com Received: from mail.interbgc.com ([127.0.0.1]) by p2.interbgc.com (p2.interbgc.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AnKGGTxftb5H; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:15:44 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.interbgc.com (Postfix, from userid 80) id 5D27B17C9FA; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:15:41 +0300 (EEST) To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Good News!!! 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------=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB24C5.8D137150-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 16 02:03:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251C43A68C5; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:03:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FaSiUTM+DxBt; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA86C3A6897; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OZgih-0004PI-9h for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:56:35 +0000 Received: from [193.1.169.37] (helo=cali.ucd.ie) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OZgid-0004Ll-Va for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:56:32 +0000 Received: from conversion-daemon.cali.ucd.ie by cali.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) id <0L5N00K017H9IX00@cali.ucd.ie> (original mail from Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie) for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:56:28 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.0.1.177] (bark.no8.be [83.141.81.52]) by cali.ucd.ie (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0L5N007UQ7I36800@cali.ucd.ie>; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:56:27 +0100 (IST) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:56:27 +0100 From: Niall O'Reilly Subject: Re: draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution Re: [dnsext] DNSEXT sessions at IETF 78 In-reply-to: <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> To: Suzanne Woolf Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <4C401EBB.3030400@ucd.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com> <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-IE.utf8; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100528 Thunderbird/3.0.5 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 16/07/10 01:44, Suzanne Woolf wrote: [...] > > In the interests of moving the "aliasing" discussion forward, see: > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution/ > > The -00 draft was the work of Jiankang Yao and Xiaodong Lee, to which > I added a bunch of stuff taken from the namedroppers archives and the > discussions we've already had. The document is just a beginning but is > intended to be the place where this requirements-gathering exercise is > archived; ultimately it will either explain why we're doing whatever > work the WG takes on in this area, or explain why we decided there's > nothing that DNSEXT can usefully do. Good work, Suzanne! It's great to see this revision out. > Questions: > > 1. What else does it need, besides more specific use cases? I'ld suggest adding just one more: the one presented by Paul Vixie at the interim meeting (February 2010, was it?), unless Paul has an objection. This will make it clear to readers that motivations may arise other than those driven by character variants. It may be opportune to refer to other character-variant-based use cases, should any come to notice as this draft advances. I expect that detailed exposition of these use cases will not be necessary in the absence of significant specific features which somehow distinguish such a case from either the Han or Greek "prototypes". > 2. Should it be a WG document? It currently isn't, and I'll be asking > that it be adopted. Absolutely. > 3. The -01 draft plays fast and loose with a great deal of > terminology; we don't have good terminology for the analysis we need > to do here. How do we get to a more rigorous agreed-upon vocabulary > for talking about these issues? Make a snag list. Address each snag in section 1.3. Consider promoting 'Terminology' to new section 2 and renumbering the rest. > 4. Other concerns? 4.a I suggest taking advantage of this document to move remaining motivational material out of the BNAME and CLONE drafts so that these can be kept "technical". I've held off on suggesting changes to these until the current draft had appeared. 4.b I feel that more care is needed in choosing whether to refer either to a name or to a label, not just in the draft, but in all our thinking on what "sameness" means. Justifiably, someone will reply, "Send text." Yes, I must. 8-) 0,02 /Niall From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jul 16 06:50:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DB73A6A48 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 06:50:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -42%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hP0p9yqMdS7p for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 06:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 244-228-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net (244-228-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net [178.93.228.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F0A783A6A04 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 06:50:50 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -42% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100716135050.F0A783A6A04@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 06:50:50 -0700 (PDT)

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Visit <A href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?p= id=3D14">Your=20 Account</A>.</P> <P> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#006699><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order=20 Information:</B></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica> <P><B>E-mail Address:</B>  dnsext-archive@ietf.org</= P> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100= %"> <TBODY> <TR><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order Grand T= otal: $=20 66.99</B></FONT> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD= > <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD></TR></T= BODY></TABLE></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>Earn 3% = rewards=20 on your Amazon.com orders with the Amazon Visa Card. <A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14"= >Learn More</A></FONT>=20 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <P> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#006699><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order=20 Summary:</B></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#eeeeee><FONT color=3D#cc6600 size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Details:</B></FONT></TD= ></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><= B>Order=20 #:</B></FONT></TD> <TD width=3D"98%"><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helv= etica><A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14"= >D26-1145330-9568162</A></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>S= ubtotal=20 of items: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 39.99=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD></TD> <TD>------</TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>T= otal=20 before tax: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 77.99=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>S= ales=20 Tax: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 0.00=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD></TD> <TD>------</TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><= B>Total=20 for this Order: </B></FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>$=20 54.99</B> </FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>The follow= ing=20 item was ordered:=20 <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D2 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dtop> <TD width=3D20><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif><STRONG><A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14"= >Click here and see=20 items</A></STRONG>, Price: $ 05.99<BR>By: <A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14"= >Click here</A> <BR>Sold by:=20 Amazon Digital Services, Inc.</FONT></TD></TR><BR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3D2><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif></FONT></TD></T= R></TBODY></TABLE> <HR SIZE=3D1 noShade> <P>The charge for this order will appear on your credit card=20 statement from the merchant 'AMZN Payment Services.'</P> <P>You can review your orders in <A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14">Your = Account</A>. If you've=20 explored the links on that page but still have a question, plea= se=20 visit our online <A href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index= php?pid=3D14">Help=20 Department</A>.</P> <P>Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only=20 address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply= to=20 this message.</P> <P>Thanks again for shopping with us.</P> <P><B><A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14">Amazo= n.com</A></B><BR><B>Earth's=20 Biggest Selection</B></P> <P><IMG border=3D0 alt=3D"unsubscribe icon"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/cs-email/icon-unsub= scribe.gif">=20 Prefer not to receive HTML mail? <A=20 href=3D"http://problemdollars.ru:8080/index.php?pid=3D14">Click= =20 here</A></P></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TA= BLE></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB253F.F472E950-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 17 01:10:11 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B173A67E6 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:10:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <qdU8iW7oPzOc> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -09%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.925 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.925 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN0b=1.666, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qdU8iW7oPzOc for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 118-168-100-79.dynamic.hinet.net (118-168-100-79.dynamic.hinet.net [118.168.100.79]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E9B33A67A4 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -09% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100717081008.2E9B33A67A4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 01:10:07 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 896px"> <tr><td align="center" style="font: normal 11px Verdana, sans-serif; color: #333;"><a href="http://erh.drugdoab.ru?mllw=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" style="text-decoration: none; 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Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net145.186.188-187.dynamic.omsk.ertelecom.ru (net145.186.188-187.dynamic.omsk.ertelecom.ru [188.186.145.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BB8883A683A for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -01% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100717131209.BB8883A683A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 06:12:09 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 896px"> <tr><td align="center" style="font: normal 11px Verdana, sans-serif; color: #333;"><a href="http://tyj.hatboat.ru?iudf=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" style="text-decoration: none; color: #0099ff;">Click here. </td></tr> <tr><td align="center"> <br /> <a href="http://bqj.hatboat.ru?vtie=dnsext-archive@ietf.org"><img alt="Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org" src="http://nmy.hatboat.ru/m.gif" style="border-width: 0px" /></a></td></tr> </table> </body> </html> From david_lingam@live.com Sat Jul 17 12:09:42 2010 Return-Path: <david_lingam@live.com> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39303A69B8 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:09:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -88.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-88.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.639, BAYES_99=3.5, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.116, HELO_EQ_VN=1.335, HOST_EQ_VN=0.45, MSOE_MID_WRONG_CASE=0.82, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m-4VJLu-G05x for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:09:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns1.hcmute.edu.vn (mail1.hcmute.edu.vn [203.113.147.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B7E3A69B5 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from User ([201.45.142.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by dns1.hcmute.edu.vn (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o6GDNioi024384; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:23:58 +0700 Message-Id: <201007161323.o6GDNioi024384@dns1.hcmute.edu.vn> Reply-To: <david_lingam2@hotmail.com> From: "David Lingam"<david_lingam@live.com> To: info@dl.com Subject: urgent attention!!!! Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 03:06:11 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 I David Lingam ,an attorney at law, A deceased client of mine that shares the same last name as yours died as the result of a heart-related condition on March 12th 2005. His heart condition was due to the death of all the members of his family in the tsunami disaster on the 26th December 2004 in Sumatra Indonesia. And in the record there is no known successor to this deposit of the deceased who died without a will. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake. My late Client has a deposit of Seventeen Million Five hundred Thousand Dollars (17.5 Million dollars) left behind. I can be reached on (david_lingam1@live.com)for more information Sincerely yours. Barr.David Lingam (Attorney at Law) From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Mon Jul 19 02:36:50 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8A53A69FE for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:36:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <oL5DS79RKZ5S> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.371 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.371 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oL5DS79RKZ5S for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shpd-92-101-138-219.vologda.ru (shpd-92-101-138-219.vologda.ru [92.101.138.219]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AE9143A69F3 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:36:48 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site 66% OFF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100719093648.AE9143A69F3@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:36:48 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtm"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 896px"> <tr><td align="center" style="font: normal 11px Verdana, sans-serif; color: #333;"><a href="http://hks.orastore.ru?ruwr=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" style="text-decoration: none; color: #0099ff;">Click here. </td></tr> <tr><td align="center"> <br /> <a href="http://fyw.orastore.ru?vwie=dnsext-archive@ietf.org"><img alt="Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org" src="http://gow.orastore.ru/y.gif" style="border-width: 0px" /></a></td></tr> </table> </body> </html> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 19 06:50:31 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1FA3A68B8; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 06:50:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebWbIl0P6R+F; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B393A67C3; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 06:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1OaqZE-000HcT-GT for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:39:36 +0000 Received: from [193.227.124.2] (helo=mx01.bfk.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <fweimer@bfk.de>) id 1OaqZC-000Hbg-69 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:39:34 +0000 Received: from mx00.int.bfk.de ([10.119.110.2]) by mx01.bfk.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1OaqZ5-00010c-O3; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:39:27 +0000 Received: by bfk.de with local id 1OaqZ5-0002ZD-KC; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:39:27 +0000 To: Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution Re: [dnsext] DNSEXT sessions at IETF 78 References: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com> <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> From: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:39:27 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> (Suzanne Woolf's message of "Fri\, 16 Jul 2010 00\:44\:04 +0000") Message-ID: <82vd8b6168.fsf@mid.bfk.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> * Suzanne Woolf: > 4. Other concerns? I don't think pseudo-equivalence based on non-canonical names will be good enough because canonical names cannot be used in some places (and software actually enforces that). This comes pretty close to a requirement for complete interchangeability. --=20 Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstra=DFe 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 19 15:14:39 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A5F3A6A84; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:14:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.404 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.404 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ykdNYpq5xtSD; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC8D3A697F; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1OaySV-0007vq-Q4 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:05:11 +0000 Received: from [2001:1890:1112:1::2f] (helo=rfc-editor.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <wwwrun@rfc-editor.org>) id 1OaySP-0007uo-W0 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:05:06 +0000 Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 766EDE066A; Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT) To: Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com, rdroms.ietf@gmail.com, jari.arkko@piuha.net, ogud@ogud.com, ajs@shinkuro.com Subject: [dnsext] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC4635 (2332) From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> Cc: d3e3e3@gmail.com, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20100719220503.766EDE066A@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC4635, "HMAC SHA (Hashed Message Authentication Code, Secure Hash Algorithm) TSIG Algorithm Identifiers". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4635&eid=2332 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Donald Eastlake 3rd <d3e3e3@gmail.com> Section: top 1st page Original Text ------------- Network Working Group D. Eastlake 3rd Request for Comments: 4635 Motorola Laboratories Category: Standards Track August 2006 Corrected Text -------------- Network Working Group D. Eastlake 3rd Request for Comments: 4635 Motorola Laboratories Updates 2845 Category: Standards Track August 2006 Notes ----- This RFC, which I authored, clearly updates the Original RFC 2845 for TSIG: It makes it MANDATORY to implement HMAC-SHA1 and HMAC-SHA256 if you claim to support TSIG. It defines a new TSIG error code, BADTRUC, and specifies when it is to be returned. This are *significant* *normative* updates to RFC 2845. The RFC index for 2845 and 4635 should be updated to show this. Instructions: ------------- This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC4635 (draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-sha-06) -------------------------------------- Title : HMAC SHA (Hashed Message Authentication Code, Secure Hash Algorithm) TSIG Algorithm Identifiers Publication Date : August 2006 Author(s) : D. Eastlake 3rd Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : DNS Extensions Area : Internet Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jul 20 01:03:35 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 304883A6C33 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:03:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <rWkFP-jdN85s> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -78%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -19.385 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.385 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rWkFP-jdN85s for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 81-1-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net (81-1-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net [95.133.1.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 569983A6C1F for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:03:23 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -78% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100720080323.569983A6C1F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:03:23 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 896px"> <tr><td align="center" style="font: normal 11px Verdana, sans-serif; color: #333;"><a href="http://hgc.divinesure.ru?ymek=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" style="text-decoration: none; color: #0099ff;">Click here. </td></tr> <tr><td align="center"> <br /> <a href="http://pkg.divinesure.ru?ylrn=dnsext-archive@ietf.org"><img alt="Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org" src="http://nfz.divinesure.ru/n.gif" style="border-width: 0px" /></a></td></tr> </table> <BR>----------------------------------------------<BR>The message was checked by Zillya! Antivirus 1.1.2343.0, bases 2.0.0.389 - No viruses detected<BR></body> </html> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 01:45:01 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC663A6C38; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:45:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <1oYd8cyeT1sH> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.859 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.859 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.104, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1oYd8cyeT1sH; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB4C3A69A4; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1Ob8Hq-0002Qo-LM for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:34:50 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <yaojk@cnnic.cn>) id 1Ob8Hn-0002QH-Q2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:34:48 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:34:45 +0800 Message-ID: <479614885.06792@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:34:45 +0800 Message-ID: <EEC9FC2C5E3F42829FB39D404C5B67E6@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> To: "Suzanne Woolf" <woolf@isc.org>, "Florian Weimer" <fweimer@bfk.de> Cc: <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> References: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com><20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> <82vd8b6168.fsf@mid.bfk.de> Subject: Re: draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution Re: [dnsext] DNSEXT sessions at IETF 78 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:34:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkZsb3JpYW4gV2VpbWVyIiA8 ZndlaW1lckBiZmsuZGU+DQpUbzogIlN1emFubmUgV29vbGYiIDx3b29sZkBpc2Mub3JnPg0KQ2M6 IDxuYW1lZHJvcHBlcnNAb3BzLmlldGYub3JnPg0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBKdWx5IDE5LCAyMDEw IDk6MzkgUE0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBkcmFmdC15YW8tZG5zZXh0LWlkZW50aWNhbC1yZXNvbHV0 aW9uIFJlOiBbZG5zZXh0XSBETlNFWFQgc2Vzc2lvbnMgYXQgSUVURiA3OA0KDQoNCj4qIFN1emFu bmUgV29vbGY6DQoNCj4+IDQuIE90aGVyIGNvbmNlcm5zPw0KDQo+SSBkb24ndCB0aGluayBwc2V1 ZG8tZXF1aXZhbGVuY2UgYmFzZWQgb24gbm9uLWNhbm9uaWNhbCBuYW1lcyB3aWxsIGJlDQo+Z29v ZCBlbm91Z2ggYmVjYXVzZSBjYW5vbmljYWwgbmFtZXMgY2Fubm90IGJlIHVzZWQgaW4gc29tZSBw bGFjZXMgKGFuZA0KPnNvZnR3YXJlIGFjdHVhbGx5IGVuZm9yY2VzIHRoYXQpLg0KDQp0d28gbmFt ZXMgYXJlIGZ1bGx5IGRpZmZlcmVudC4gd2l0aG91dCBzb21lIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24sIHRoZSBz b2Z0d2FyZSB3aWxsIG5vdCBrbm93IGl0Lg0KDQp0aGUgc29mdHdhcmUgd2lsbCBub3QgYXV0b21h dGljYWxseSBrbm93IGl0Lg0KDQoNCj5UaGlzIGNvbWVzIHByZXR0eSBjbG9zZSB0byBhIHJlcXVp 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ------=_Part_5612266_941817052.1279620343245-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 03:41:09 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A845C3A683F; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:41:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XH2dAtZMM6dl; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FEB3A6831; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObAAC-000Jk7-Ti for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:35:04 +0000 Received: from [2001:df0:8:6::72] (helo=send12.jprs.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp>) id 1ObAAA-000JjP-Ct for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:35:02 +0000 Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (sendsms12.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.114]) by send12.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6KAYpjW011405; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:34:51 +0900 (JST) Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 3C65C3355; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:34:51 +0900 (JST) X-AuditID: ca0b1172-0000000600000914-33-4c457bca4206 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:34:50 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: yaojk@cnnic.cn Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> > From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> > Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:09:10 +0800 >> 1. The draft does not explain CNAME+BNAME problem. >> >> The same comments are already discussed in this list. >> >> RFC 2181 section 10.1 "CNAME resource records" states >> "+ one or more records exist, none being CNAME records,". >> But section 4.1 step 3.a generates answers which contain CNAME RR and >> BNAME RR for the same owner name. > > My understanding of RFC 2181 section 10.1 is that you can not configure other recourds except dnssec RRs in the zone if there is a cname. RFC 2181 section 10.1 describes DNS protocol. It says one or more records (includes DNAME or BNAME) exist at a owner name, none being CNAME records at the same owner name in DNS packet. If not, we need to classify RFC 2181 section 10.1. > but the CNAME RR related to BNAME RR is synthetized. there is not a real CNAME RR in the zone. BNAME-unaware Resolvers cannot distinct a real CNAME and a synthesized CNAME. BNAME-unaware resolvers find a ownername has CNAME and BNAME (as unknown RR) and they may treat it is a violation. -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jul 20 03:51:47 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92253A6C75 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:51:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <868skKSUvUjW> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -30%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 868skKSUvUjW for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; 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List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On 7/20/10 3:34 AM, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp wrote: > > From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 > > 10:09:10 +0800 > >> 1. The draft does not explain CNAME+BNAME problem. > >> > >> The same comments are already discussed in this list. > >> > >> RFC 2181 section 10.1 "CNAME resource records" states "+ one or > >> more records exist, none being CNAME records,". But section 4.1 > >> step 3.a generates answers which contain CNAME RR and BNAME RR > >> for the same owner name. > > > > My understanding of RFC 2181 section 10.1 is that you can not > > configure other records except dnssec RRs in the zone if there is > > a cname. > > RFC 2181 section 10.1 describes DNS protocol. It says one or more > records (includes DNAME or BNAME) exist at a owner name, none being > CNAME records at the same owner name in DNS packet. > > If not, we need to classify RFC 2181 section 10.1. > > > but the CNAME RR related to BNAME RR is synthetized. there is not a > > real CNAME RR in the zone. > > BNAME-unaware Resolvers cannot distinct a real CNAME and a > synthesized CNAME. BNAME-unaware resolvers find a ownername has CNAME > and BNAME (as unknown RR) and they may treat it is a violation. This was said at the last meetings as well. Judging by John's strong assertions, don't expect targets found in a resource record, such as an MX, PTR, SRV record are always accepted when below a BNAME. It remains problematic from the standpoint of a recipient refusing an aliased target in a MX record. There is new draft defining methods for using TLS to authenticate clients, that restates not allowing CNAMEs. It seems important to know who is communicating for both directions, without chasing a rabbit down its hole. As said on this list from the outset, there must be warnings that names below BNAMEs have limitations. These limitations are likely to remain going forward. Be upfront about these target related limitations. -Doug From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 08:49:18 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8313A68CD; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:49:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.715 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.715 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.878, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BP5nRPfYBNKA; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0673A683C; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObEcw-000AxG-1i for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:21:02 +0000 Received: from [168.61.5.27] (helo=harry.mail-abuse.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <dotis@mail-abuse.org>) id 1ObEct-000AwX-Hg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:20:59 +0000 Received: from US-DOUGLASO-MB.local (gateway1.sjc.mail-abuse.org [168.61.5.81]) by harry.mail-abuse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DFCA9448B; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:20:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:20:57 -0700 From: Douglas Otis <dotis@mail-abuse.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100512 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp CC: yaojk@cnnic.cn, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On 7/20/10 3:34 AM, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp wrote: > > From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 > > 10:09:10 +0800 > >> 1. The draft does not explain CNAME+BNAME problem. > >> > >> The same comments are already discussed in this list. > >> > >> RFC 2181 section 10.1 "CNAME resource records" states "+ one or > >> more records exist, none being CNAME records,". But section 4.1 > >> step 3.a generates answers which contain CNAME RR and BNAME RR > >> for the same owner name. > > > > My understanding of RFC 2181 section 10.1 is that you can not > > configure other records except dnssec RRs in the zone if there is > > a cname. > > RFC 2181 section 10.1 describes DNS protocol. It says one or more > records (includes DNAME or BNAME) exist at a owner name, none being > CNAME records at the same owner name in DNS packet. > > If not, we need to classify RFC 2181 section 10.1. > > > but the CNAME RR related to BNAME RR is synthetized. there is not a > > real CNAME RR in the zone. > > BNAME-unaware Resolvers cannot distinct a real CNAME and a > synthesized CNAME. BNAME-unaware resolvers find a ownername has CNAME > and BNAME (as unknown RR) and they may treat it is a violation. This was said at the last meetings as well. Judging by John's strong assertions, don't expect targets found in a resource record, such as an MX, PTR, SRV record are always accepted when below a BNAME. It remains problematic from the standpoint of a recipient refusing an aliased target in a MX record. There is new draft defining methods for using TLS to authenticate clients, that restates not allowing CNAMEs. It seems important to know who is communicating for both directions, without chasing a rabbit down its hole. As said on this list from the outset, there must be warnings that names below BNAMEs have limitations. These limitations are likely to remain going forward. Be upfront about these target related limitations. -Doug From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 10:25:18 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF653A6AFD; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:25:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.604, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W+aShhCtAN+h; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC443A6A92; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObGRq-0001mW-Ck for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:17:42 +0000 Received: from [2001:500:60::65] (helo=mx.ams1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <woolf@isc.org>) id 1ObGRn-0001lv-FQ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:17:39 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C66345F983B; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:17:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id 2B226E6033; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:17:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:17:27 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org> To: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> Cc: Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution Re: [dnsext] DNSEXT sessions at IETF 78 Message-ID: <20100720171727.GE44683@farside.isc.org> References: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com> <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> <82vd8b6168.fsf@mid.bfk.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <82vd8b6168.fsf@mid.bfk.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 01:39:27PM +0000, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Suzanne Woolf: > > > 4. Other concerns? > > I don't think pseudo-equivalence based on non-canonical names will be > good enough because canonical names cannot be used in some places (and > software actually enforces that). Examples? Send text :) > This comes pretty close to a requirement for complete > interchangeability. Then we have to figure out where it applies and where we can get away with a more relaxed requirement. As the draft already notes, all of the proposals we currently have treat one name as "canonical" or "preferred" and others as "aliases" or "variants"-- a one-way, asymmetrical transformation. "Shadow zones" comes closest, but one domain is still designated "the domain being shadowed" and the others are "shadows" of it. Some of the folks who have contributed to this discussion as it's evolved to this point have some convincing arguments that a "requirement for complete interchangeability" can't be met in the current DNS or, depending on how it's stated, at all. Let's be careful with this one. best, Suzanne From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 11:33:55 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBC03A6C6F; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eoUi3Z3D-ZRT; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2AD3A6C44; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObHWD-000Bsy-4i for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:26:17 +0000 Received: from [209.85.161.180] (helo=mail-gx0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>) id 1ObHW8-000BsH-TZ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:26:13 +0000 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22so5142918gxk.11 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:25:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NoRczoyyNILYuEJJU/vrAyx13+ydZGfaxEXYJW6RdPc=; b=ccRyAjAdiKRWbB/HNceJUuvV/IxuMhH3nekx7XGiLwQP2fw20C1LZPFDxRQQ8WLxK/ 8fE1M0zSbj1hR/Zo1ecA1eFehkev8U2wLhAfXQ1+ChFKlTes+Rg/D8rIJlXTaogDrspG nIjZlVgG9ug9elrHELWgBnN8kYlev+dYE4chw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=klbLuGM70E/o+WRGtI4ARF5Y0BUXNGAYYWvgTKYF6OpXKI9KRP8mlpvIGqckrwN81e Mq9oGUKguHhU1mMYoDOcsbzzLq9uKRxfbO4pWqrUDUpF/1dsCH6v4CK4lyPk2SklvXnp NghBviNxuTtnGrLbw/wou4QIPeqpqu/pDuNkE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.33.20 with SMTP id g20mr398353agg.133.1279650336631; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.19.29 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:25:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100720171727.GE44683@farside.isc.org> References: <20100625012414.GC9741@shinkuro.com> <20100716004404.GA89502@farside.isc.org> <82vd8b6168.fsf@mid.bfk.de> <20100720171727.GE44683@farside.isc.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:25:36 -0300 Message-ID: <AANLkTik7K1FuBPxlLIxHCBgrokBTYCncRiUSADSM5lE4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution Re: [dnsext] DNSEXT sessions at IETF 78 From: Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> To: Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org> Cc: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636283b0ec08c69048bd5cfe1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> --001636283b0ec08c69048bd5cfe1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 01:39:27PM +0000, Florian Weimer wrote: > > * Suzanne Woolf: > > > > > 4. Other concerns? > > > > I don't think pseudo-equivalence based on non-canonical names will be > > good enough because canonical names cannot be used in some places (and > > software actually enforces that). > > Examples? Send text :) > > > This comes pretty close to a requirement for complete > > interchangeability. > > Then we have to figure out where it applies and where we can get away > with a more relaxed requirement. As the draft already notes, all of > the proposals we currently have treat one name as "canonical" or > "preferred" and others as "aliases" or "variants"-- a one-way, > asymmetrical transformation. "Shadow zones" comes closest, but one > domain is still designated "the domain being shadowed" and the others > are "shadows" of it. > > There was a suggestion I raised earlier, for a method similar to, but significantly different from, shadow zones... (Given the volume of discussions, it's easy to miss new ideas or solutions.) The idea doesn't specifically require any changes to the protocol, only to the implementation methods. It involves the idea of the equivalent to a "hard link" in the filesystem analogy (an analogy which quickly breaks down, unfortunately). The basic issues with [bcd]name et al, are that they are "client-side" aliasing. The resolver sees the [bcd]name (or in some cases a synthesized *name), and chases that down. The idea of hard-linking zones, involves having the "server-side" being aware of the aliasing, and in fact literally hard-linking zone data. Given two names to resolve, foo.ex1.example.com and foo.bar.ex2.example.com, we want to have zone "foo" underneath ex1.example.com be linked (and thus identical) to "foo" underneath bar.ex2.example.com. On the "upstream" side, the delegations for both ex1.example.com and bar.ex2.example.com, point to the same NS set. They are ordinary, regular delegations (optionally with suitable DNSSEC stuff like DS et al.) The "magic" happens on the nameservers in that NS set. The nameservers serve up data which is not only identical, but literally linked (e.g. using pointers to the same data structure, from the different zone names). The linking avoids the need to maintain duplicate data, and the corresponding size bloat (exponentiation is not your friend.) Obviously, some implementations would need slightly non-trivial changes, e.g. NSD having the entire answer ready-to-go; it would need to concatenate two pieces of data (the non-unique zone "name", joined with the relative name within the zone and the RDATA). On the plus side (and I think this a HUGE plus, especially for the likes of MX), the clients don't need to be changed, and in fact are compatible back to the earliest implementations, as far as I can tell. If they understand zone delegation, it works for them. The down side is that some new logic is likely needed to allow DNSSEC signing to not require signatures from all possible SEP (secure entry point) signer names for a given zone. Perhaps allowing for "null" values of signer? I'm not sure what implications this has on the relative strength of signing, or other aspects of keys/signing/etc. Unchanged DNSSEC behaviour is unclear to me - I suspect "insecure" rather than "bogus", which I think is pretty reasonable. The DNSSEC issue is a potential can of worms, but the length of the tail (i.e. number and age of DNSSEC validators, vs number and age of DNS resolvers) is significantly shorter, and arguably leads to easier justification to incorporating this method as ONE of the methods to consider. IMHO, we don't need to go either/or on these ([BCD]name, shadows, hard-links), as long as some combination of the methods available are able to meet all the requirements we have identified. > Some of the folks who have contributed to this discussion as it's > evolved to this point have some convincing arguments that a > "requirement for complete interchangeability" can't be met in the > current DNS or, depending on how it's stated, at all. Let's be careful > with this one. > > Agreed - but let's also give thought to exploring methods that can provide complete interchangeability, if/when we identify them. Brian --001636283b0ec08c69048bd5cfe1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Suzanne Woolf <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre= f=3D"mailto:woolf@isc.org">woolf@isc.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><div clas= s=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0p= t 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"= > <div class=3D"im">On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 01:39:27PM +0000, Florian Weimer = wrote:<br> > * Suzanne Woolf:<br> ><br> > > 4. Other concerns?<br> ><br> > I don't think pseudo-equivalence based on non-canonical names will= be<br> > good enough because canonical names cannot be used in some places (and= <br> > software actually enforces that).<br> <br> </div>Examples? Send text :)<br> <div class=3D"im"><br> > This comes pretty close to a requirement for complete<br> > interchangeability.<br> <br> </div>Then we have to figure out where it applies and where we can get away= <br> with a more relaxed requirement. As the draft already notes, all of<br> the proposals we currently have treat one name as "canonical" or<= br> "preferred" and others as "aliases" or "variants&q= uot;-- a one-way,<br> asymmetrical transformation. "Shadow zones" comes closest, but on= e<br> domain is still designated "the domain being shadowed" and the ot= hers<br> are "shadows" of it.<br> <br></blockquote><div><br>There was a suggestion I raised earlier, for a me= thod similar to, but=20 significantly different from, shadow zones...<br> <br>(Given the volume of discussions, it's easy to miss new ideas or so= lutions.)<br><br>The idea doesn't specifically require any changes to t= he protocol, only to the implementation methods.<br><br>It involves the ide= a of the equivalent to a "hard link" in the filesystem analogy (a= n analogy which quickly breaks down, unfortunately).<br> <br>The basic issues with [bcd]name et al, are that they are "client-s= ide" aliasing. The resolver sees the [bcd]name (or in some cases a syn= thesized *name), and chases that down.<br><br>The idea of hard-linking zone= s, involves having the "server-side" being aware of the aliasing,= and in fact literally hard-linking zone data. <br> <br>Given two names to resolve, <a href=3D"http://foo.ex1.example.com">foo.= ex1.example.com</a> and <a href=3D"http://foo.bar.ex2.example.com">foo.bar.= ex2.example.com</a>, we want to have zone "foo" underneath <a hre= f=3D"http://ex1.example.com">ex1.example.com</a> be linked (and thus identi= cal) to "foo" underneath <a href=3D"http://bar.ex2.example.com">b= ar.ex2.example.com</a>.<br> <br>On the "upstream" side, the delegations for both <a href=3D"h= ttp://ex1.example.com">ex1.example.com</a> and <a href=3D"http://bar.ex2.ex= ample.com">bar.ex2.example.com</a>, point to the same NS set. They are ordi= nary, regular delegations (optionally with suitable DNSSEC stuff like DS et= al.)<br> <br>The "magic" happens on the nameservers in that NS set. The na= meservers serve up data which is not only identical, but literally linked (= e.g. using pointers to the same data structure, from the different zone nam= es). The linking avoids the need to maintain duplicate data, and the corres= ponding size bloat (exponentiation is not your friend.)<br> <br>Obviously, some implementations would need slightly non-trivial changes= , e.g. NSD having the entire answer ready-to-go; it would need to=20 concatenate two pieces of data (the non-unique zone "name", joine= d with=20 the relative name within the zone and the RDATA).<br><br>On the plus side (= and I think this a HUGE plus, especially for the likes of MX), the clients = don't need to be changed, and in fact are compatible back to the earlie= st implementations, as far as I can tell. If they understand zone delegatio= n, it works for them.<br> <br>The down side is that some new logic is likely needed to allow DNSSEC s= igning to not require signatures from all possible SEP (secure entry point)= signer names for a given zone. Perhaps allowing for "null" value= s of signer? I'm not sure what implications this has on the relative st= rength of signing, or other aspects of keys/signing/etc. Unchanged DNSSEC b= ehaviour is unclear to me - I suspect "insecure" rather than &quo= t;bogus", which I think is pretty reasonable.<br> <br>The DNSSEC issue is a potential can of worms, but the length of the tai= l (i.e. number and age of DNSSEC validators, vs number and age of DNS resol= vers) is significantly shorter, and arguably leads to easier justification = to incorporating this method as ONE of the methods to consider.<br> <br>IMHO, we don't need to go either/or on these ([BCD]name, shadows, h= ard-links), as long as some combination of the methods available are able t= o meet all the requirements we have identified.<br>=A0</div><blockquote cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px sol= id rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Some of the folks who have contributed to this discussion as it's<br> evolved to this point have some convincing arguments that a<br> "requirement for complete interchangeability" can't be met in= the<br> current DNS or, depending on how it's stated, at all. Let's be care= ful<br> with this one.<br> <br></blockquote><div><br>Agreed - but let's also give thought to explo= ring methods that can provide complete interchangeability, if/when we ident= ify them.<br><br>Brian <br></div></div><br> --001636283b0ec08c69048bd5cfe1-- From luridlyzj@sevenseven.org Tue Jul 20 11:39:18 2010 Return-Path: <luridlyzj@sevenseven.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0893A6C1C; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:39:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -47.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-47.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK=0.001, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ty7YP5SDTaSi; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lgp4.peno.coppe.ufrj.br (lgp4.peno.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.57.84]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98E43A67E7; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb283a$a8b3a1f0$6400a8c0@luridlyzj> From: "Amazon.com E-mail Subscriptions" <delivers@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:37:51 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_DFC7_01CB283A.A8B3A1F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_DFC7_01CB283A.A8B3A1F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazon.com Delivers: Verify Your New E-mail Address http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org, You recently changed your e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a sub= scriber of Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verif= y your new e-mail address=2E Please verify that the e-mail address belongs to you. 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Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:34:51 +0900 (JST) X-AuditID: ca0b1172-0000000600000914-33-4c457bca4206 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:34:50 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: yaojk@cnnic.cn Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2010 10:39:28.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[D49C9CB0:01CB27F7] Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> > From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> > Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:09:10 +0800 >> 1. The draft does not explain CNAME+BNAME problem. >> >> The same comments are already discussed in this list. >> >> RFC 2181 section 10.1 "CNAME resource records" states >> "+ one or more records exist, none being CNAME records,". >> But section 4.1 step 3.a generates answers which contain CNAME RR and >> BNAME RR for the same owner name. > > My understanding of RFC 2181 section 10.1 is that you can not configure other recourds except dnssec RRs in the zone if there is a cname. RFC 2181 section 10.1 describes DNS protocol. It says one or more records (includes DNAME or BNAME) exist at a owner name, none being CNAME records at the same owner name in DNS packet. If not, we need to classify RFC 2181 section 10.1. > but the CNAME RR related to BNAME RR is synthetized. there is not a real CNAME RR in the zone. BNAME-unaware Resolvers cannot distinct a real CNAME and a synthesized CNAME. BNAME-unaware resolvers find a ownername has CNAME and BNAME (as unknown RR) and they may treat it is a violation. -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 19:08:40 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0740F3A6A50; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <PTQdvhZJr4vd> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.002 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PTQdvhZJr4vd; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3AFC3A6A79; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObOcb-000E4H-2Z for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:01:21 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <yaojk@cnnic.cn>) id 1ObOcW-000E1Y-DS for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:01:16 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:01:14 +0800 Message-ID: <479677674.24408@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:01:14 +0800 Message-ID: <11121308D9D44042A81918955C14BB46@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> To: "Douglas Otis" <dotis@mail-abuse.org>, <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> Cc: <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:01:23 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIkRvdWdsYXMgT3RpcyIgPGRv dGlzQG1haWwtYWJ1c2Uub3JnPg0KVG86IDxmdWppd2FyYUBqcHJzLmNvLmpwPg0KQ2M6IDx5YW9q a0Bjbm5pYy5jbj47IDxuYW1lZHJvcHBlcnNAb3BzLmlldGYub3JnPg0KU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwg SnVseSAyMCwgMjAxMCAxMToyMCBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtkbnNleHRdIGRyYWZ0LXlhby1k bnNleHQtYm5hbWUtMDMudHh0DQoNCg0KPiBPbiA3LzIwLzEwIDM6MzQgQU0sIGZ1aml3YXJhQGpw cnMuY28uanAgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiA+IEZyb206ICJKaWFua2FuZyBZQU8iIDx5YW9qa0Bjbm5pYy5j bj4gRGF0ZTogVGh1LCA4IEp1bCAyMDEwDQo+PiA+IDEwOjA5OjEwICswODAwDQo+PiA+PiAxLiBU aGUgZHJhZnQgZG9lcyBub3QgZXhwbGFpbiBDTkFNRStCTkFNRSBwcm9ibGVtLg0KPj4gPj4NCj4+ ID4+IFRoZSBzYW1lIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFyZSBhbHJlYWR5IGRpc2N1c3NlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGxpc3Qu DQo+PiA+Pg0KPj4gPj4gUkZDIDIxODEgc2VjdGlvbiAxMC4xICJDTkFNRSByZXNvdXJjZSByZWNv cmRzIiBzdGF0ZXMgIisgb25lIG9yDQo+PiA+PiBtb3JlIHJlY29yZHMgZXhpc3QsIG5vbmUgYmVp bmcgQ05BTUUgcmVjb3JkcywiLiBCdXQgc2VjdGlvbiA0LjENCj4+ID4+IHN0ZXAgMy5hIGdlbmVy YXRlcyBhbnN3ZXJzIHdoaWNoIGNvbnRhaW4gQ05BTUUgUlIgYW5kIEJOQU1FIFJSDQo+PiA+PiBm b3IgdGhlIHNhbWUgb3duZXIgbmFtZS4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4gTXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBvZiBS RkMgMjE4MSBzZWN0aW9uIDEwLjEgaXMgdGhhdCB5b3UgY2FuIG5vdA0KPj4gPiBjb25maWd1cmUg b3RoZXIgcmVjb3JkcyBleGNlcHQgZG5zc2VjIFJScyBpbiB0aGUgem9uZSBpZiB0aGVyZSBpcw0K Pj4gPiBhIGNuYW1lLg0KPj4NCj4+ICBSRkMgMjE4MSBzZWN0aW9uIDEwLjEgZGVzY3JpYmVzIERO UyBwcm90b2NvbC4gSXQgc2F5cyBvbmUgb3IgbW9yZQ0KPj4gIHJlY29yZHMgKGluY2x1ZGVzIERO QU1FIG9yIEJOQU1FKSBleGlzdCBhdCBhIG93bmVyIG5hbWUsIG5vbmUgYmVpbmcNCj4+ICBDTkFN RSByZWNvcmRzIGF0IHRoZSBzYW1lIG93bmVyIG5hbWUgaW4gRE5TIHBhY2tldC4NCj4+DQo+PiAg SWYgbm90LCB3ZSBuZWVkIHRvIGNsYXNzaWZ5IFJGQyAyMTgxIHNlY3Rpb24gMTAuMS4NCj4+DQo+ PiA+IGJ1dCB0aGUgQ05BTUUgUlIgcmVsYXRlZCB0byBCTkFNRSBSUiBpcyBzeW50aGV0aXplZC4g dGhlcmUgaXMgbm90IGENCj4+ID4gcmVhbCBDTkFNRSBSUiBpbiB0aGUgem9uZS4NCj4+DQo+PiAg Qk5BTUUtdW5hd2FyZSBSZXNvbHZlcnMgY2Fubm90IGRpc3RpbmN0IGEgcmVhbCBDTkFNRSBhbmQg YQ0KPj4gIHN5bnRoZXNpemVkIENOQU1FLiBCTkFNRS11bmF3YXJlIHJlc29sdmVycyBmaW5kIGEg b3duZXJuYW1lIGhhcyBDTkFNRQ0KPj4gIGFuZCBCTkFNRSAoYXMgdW5rbm93biBSUikgYW5kIHRo ZXkgbWF5IHRyZWF0IGl0IGlzIGEgdmlvbGF0aW9uLg0KPiANCj4gVGhpcyB3YXMgc2FpZCBhdCB0 aGUgbGFzdCBtZWV0aW5ncyBhcyB3ZWxsLiAgSnVkZ2luZyBieSBKb2huJ3Mgc3Ryb25nIA0KPiBh c3NlcnRpb25zLCBkb24ndCBleHBlY3QgdGFyZ2V0cyBmb3VuZCBpbiBhIHJlc291cmNlIHJlY29y ZCwgc3VjaCBhcyBhbiANCj4gTVgsIFBUUiwgU1JWIHJlY29yZCBhcmUgYWx3YXlzIGFjY2VwdGVk IHdoZW4gYmVsb3cgYSBCTkFNRS4gIEl0IHJlbWFpbnMgDQo+IHByb2JsZW1hdGljIGZyb20gdGhl IHN0YW5kcG9pbnQgb2YgYSByZWNpcGllbnQgcmVmdXNpbmcgYW4gYWxpYXNlZCANCj4gdGFyZ2V0 IGluIGEgTVggcmVjb3JkLiAgDQoNCnRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIHNvZnR3YXJlIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24g cHJvYmxlbS4NCmlmIHRoZSAgcmVjaXBpZW50IGNvbmZpZ3VyZSBhIE1YIGFsaWFzIGluIHRoZSBE TlMsIGl0IGlzIHN0cmFuZ2UgdGhhdCBoZSBkb2VzIG5vdCBjb25maWd1cmUgdGhlIHNvZnR3YXJl IHRvIGFjY2VwIGl0Lg0KDQoNCj5UaGVyZSBpcyBuZXcgZHJhZnQgZGVmaW5pbmcgbWV0aG9kcyBm b3IgdXNpbmcgDQo+IFRMUyB0byBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGUgY2xpZW50cywgdGhhdCByZXN0YXRlcyBu b3QgYWxsb3dpbmcgIENOQU1Fcy4gIEl0IA0KPiBzZWVtcyBpbXBvcnRhbnQgdG8ga25vdyB3aG8g aXMgY29tbXVuaWNhdGluZyBmb3IgYm90aCBkaXJlY3Rpb25zLCANCj4gd2l0aG91dCBjaGFzaW5n IGEgcmFiYml0IGRvd24gaXRzIGhvbGUuDQo+IA0KPiBBcyBzYWlkIG9uIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBmcm9t IHRoZSBvdXRzZXQsIHRoZXJlIG11c3QgYmUgd2FybmluZ3MgdGhhdCBuYW1lcyANCj4gYmVsb3cg Qk5BTUVzIGhhdmUgbGltaXRhdGlvbnMuICBUaGVzZSBsaW1pdGF0aW9ucyBhcmUgbGlrZWx5IHRv IHJlbWFpbiANCj4gZ29pbmcgZm9yd2FyZC4gIEJlIHVwZnJvbnQgYWJvdXQgdGhlc2UgdGFyZ2V0 IHJlbGF0ZWQgbGltaXRhdGlvbnMuDQo+IA0KPiAtRG91Zw0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+ From lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu Tue Jul 20 20:44:01 2010 Return-Path: <lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2749D3A6A5A for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:44:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8znQaOVwt5TP for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mf.viterbo.edu (mf.viterbo.edu [198.150.52.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6073A69C2 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:43:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu X-Envelope-To: dmorris@ccalv.org Received: From mail.exchange.viterbo.edu (198.150.52.6) by mf.viterbo.edu (MAILFOUNDRY) id nUx33JR5Ed+wPwAw; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:39:49 -0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.exchange.viterbo.edu ([10.20.2.6]) by mail.exchange.viterbo.edu ([10.20.2.6]) with mapi; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:43:47 -0500 From: Lee H Grosskreutz <lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:43:47 -0500 Subject: Attn: Webmail Users, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BLOCKED. Thread-Topic: Attn: Webmail Users, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BLOCKED. Thread-Index: AQHLKIbsnnH8RzyLIEKoyOPmnfnQXw== Message-ID: <3731589285AAEA4BB933F57613D8EDDE1041176334@mail.exchange.viterbo.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Attn: Webmail Users, We regret to announce to you that we will be making some vital maintenance on our website. During this process you might have login problems in signing into your Online account, but to prevent this you have to confirm your account immediately after you receive this notification. 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Webmail Team accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk Warning Code: 002671 NOTE: ALL RESPONSES SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO: accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk From lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu Tue Jul 20 20:44:01 2010 Return-Path: <lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790EA3A69C2 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:44:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.109 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KIGaVU5GOBBA for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mf.viterbo.edu (mf.viterbo.edu [198.150.52.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F23E3A69C6 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:44:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu X-Envelope-To: dmorris@ccalv.org Received: From mail.exchange.viterbo.edu (198.150.52.6) by mf.viterbo.edu (MAILFOUNDRY) id nUx33JR5Ed+wPwAw; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:39:49 -0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.exchange.viterbo.edu ([10.20.2.6]) by mail.exchange.viterbo.edu ([10.20.2.6]) with mapi; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:43:47 -0500 From: Lee H Grosskreutz <lhgrosskreutz@viterbo.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:43:47 -0500 Subject: Attn: Webmail Users, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BLOCKED. Thread-Topic: Attn: Webmail Users, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BLOCKED. Thread-Index: AQHLKIbsnnH8RzyLIEKoyOPmnfnQXw== Message-ID: <3731589285AAEA4BB933F57613D8EDDE1041176334@mail.exchange.viterbo.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Attn: Webmail Users, We regret to announce to you that we will be making some vital maintenance on our website. During this process you might have login problems in signing into your Online account, but to prevent this you have to confirm your account immediately after you receive this notification. To confirm and to keep your account active during and after this process, please reply to this message with the below account informations to accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk Failure to do this might cause a permanent deactivation of your user account from our database to enable us create more spaces for new users. YOUR ACCOUNT CONFIRMATION Name: E-mail ID: E-mail Password: Date of birth: Your account shall remain active after you have successfully confirmed your account details to the email address below. Thanks for bearing with us. Webmail Team accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk Warning Code: 002671 NOTE: ALL RESPONSES SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO: accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 21:01:20 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EB03A6869; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:01:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.657 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.657 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.567, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pepr5t19vE+P; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF39F3A67AE; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 21:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObQPi-0000vs-04 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:56:10 +0000 Received: from [2001:df0:8:6::72] (helo=send12.jprs.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp>) id 1ObQPf-0000v8-4h for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:56:07 +0000 Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (sendsms12.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.114]) by send12.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6L3tnX9023092; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:55:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A87773356; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:55:49 +0900 (JST) X-AuditID: ca0b1172-0000000500000914-f1-4c466fc52405 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:55:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: dotis@mail-abuse.org Cc: yaojk@cnnic.cn, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <479677674.24408@cnnic.cn> References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> > From: Douglas Otis <dotis@mail-abuse.org> >> BNAME-unaware Resolvers cannot distinct a real CNAME and a >> synthesized CNAME. BNAME-unaware resolvers find a ownername has CNAME >> and BNAME (as unknown RR) and they may treat it is a violation. > > This was said at the last meetings as well. Judging by John's strong > assertions, don't expect targets found in a resource record, such as > an MX, PTR, SRV record are always accepted when below a BNAME. It > remains problematic from the standpoint of a recipient refusing an > aliased target in a MX record. There is new draft defining methods > for using TLS to authenticate clients, that restates not allowing > CNAMEs. It seems important to know who is communicating for both > directions, without chasing a rabbit down its hole. There are two problems. First is that a owner name has CNAME RR + DNAME or BNAME RR in a response. It is described in RFC 2181 Section 10.1 "CNAME resource record". Second is the domainname of MX, NS RDATA value. But DNAME/BNAME case, redirect domain name's NS or MX RR can be configured not to contain DNAME/BNANE ownername. > From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> > this is the software configuration problem. > if the recipient configure a MX alias in the DNS, it is strange that he does not configure the software to accep it. I agree. The second problem is a configuration error. But first problem is not resolved. -- Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 20 22:55:29 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28043A679F; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:55:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.442 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.442 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.158, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NV93adzoKTjf; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC243A69B4; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObS5d-000Dwa-0F for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:43:33 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:0:2::2b] (helo=mx.pao1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <marka@isc.org>) id 1ObS5Y-000Dvn-IX for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:43:28 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BFE0C941A; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:43:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (drugs.dv.isc.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f00:820:214:22ff:fed9:fbdc]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (not verified)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8C7E6032; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:43:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6L5h8VS034170; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:43:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <201007210543.o6L5h8VS034170@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp Cc: dotis@mail-abuse.org, yaojk@cnnic.cn, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:55:48 +0900." <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:43:08 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> In message <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp>, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp writes: > > From: Douglas Otis <dotis@mail-abuse.org> > >> BNAME-unaware Resolvers cannot distinct a real CNAME and a > >> synthesized CNAME. BNAME-unaware resolvers find a ownername has CNAME > >> and BNAME (as unknown RR) and they may treat it is a violation. > > > > This was said at the last meetings as well. Judging by John's strong > > assertions, don't expect targets found in a resource record, such as > > an MX, PTR, SRV record are always accepted when below a BNAME. It > > remains problematic from the standpoint of a recipient refusing an > > aliased target in a MX record. There is new draft defining methods > > for using TLS to authenticate clients, that restates not allowing > > CNAMEs. It seems important to know who is communicating for both > > directions, without chasing a rabbit down its hole. > > There are two problems. > > First is that a owner name has CNAME RR + DNAME or BNAME RR in a response. > It is described in RFC 2181 Section 10.1 "CNAME resource record". Which becomes a non-issue if you signal BNAME awareness and send a CNAME or a BNAME but never both. > Second is the domainname of MX, NS RDATA value. > > But DNAME/BNAME case, redirect domain name's NS or MX RR can be > configured not to contain DNAME/BNANE ownername. > > > From: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> > > this is the software configuration problem. > > if the recipient configure a MX alias in the DNS, it is strange that he do > es not configure the software to accep it. > > I agree. The second problem is a configuration error. > But first problem is not resolved. > > -- > Kazunori Fujiwara, JPRS <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org From silaged412@refinerytech.com Tue Jul 20 23:00:40 2010 Return-Path: <silaged412@refinerytech.com> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9CB3A69B4 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:00:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.371, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B=5.777, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlYlGVVyoDlk for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 127.183.76.219.static.netvigator.com (127.183.76.219.static.netvigator.com [219.76.183.127]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DB23A6B2E for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 219.76.183.127 by refinerytech.com.s7b1.psmtp.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:59:50 +0800 Message-ID: <000d01cb2899$ee3948b0$6400a8c0@silaged412> From: "Amazon.com" <digital-no-reply@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Your Amazon.com Order (D86-7119159-3675501) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:59:50 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2899.EE3948B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2899.EE3948B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 hours= a=20 day? 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If you've=20 explored the links on that page but still have a question, plea= se=20 visit our online Help=20 Department=2E Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only=20 address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply= to=20 this message=2E Thanks again for shopping with us=2E Amazon.comEarth's=20 Biggest Selection =20 Prefer not to receive HTML mail? Click=20 here ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2899.EE3948B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-125= 2"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D10 width=3D"100%" align=3Dc= enter> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dcenter> <TD align=3Dleft><A href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14"><I= MG border=3D0=20 alt=3D"Amazon.com logo"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/marketing/logo-and-your-d= one.gif"></A>=20 </TD> <TD align=3Dright><IMG border=3D0 alt=3D"your account"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/nav/personalized/cartwish= /right-topnav-digital.gif"=20 useMap=3D#right_top_nav_map> <MAP name=3Dright_top_nav_map><AREA=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14" shape=3Drect coord= s=3D0,0,102,21><AREA=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14" shape=3Drect=20 coords=3D105,0,145,21></MAP><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"90%" bgColor=3D#= 006699=20 align=3Dcenter> <TBODY> <TR> <TD> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D5 width=3D"100%" alig= n=3Dcenter> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dtop> <TD bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvet= ica> <P><B>Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org</B><= /P> <P>Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 ho= urs a=20 day? Visit <A href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">= Your=20 Account</A>.</P> <P> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#006699><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order=20 Information:</B></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica> <P><B>E-mail Address:</B>  dnsext-archive@lists.ietf= org</P> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100= %"> <TBODY> <TR><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order Grand T= otal: $=20 07.99</B></FONT> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD= > <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD></TR></T= BODY></TABLE></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>Earn 3% = rewards=20 on your Amazon.com orders with the Amazon Visa Card. <A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Learn Mo= re</A></FONT>=20 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <P> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#006699><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order=20 Summary:</B></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#eeeeee><FONT color=3D#cc6600 size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Details:</B></FONT></TD= ></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><= B>Order=20 #:</B></FONT></TD> <TD width=3D"98%"><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helv= etica><A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">D98-0944= 740-5095174</A></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>S= ubtotal=20 of items: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 32.99=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD></TD> <TD>------</TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>T= otal=20 before tax: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 84.99=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>S= ales=20 Tax: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 0.00=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD></TD> <TD>------</TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><= B>Total=20 for this Order: </B></FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>$=20 78.99</B> </FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>The follow= ing=20 item was ordered:=20 <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D2 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dtop> <TD width=3D20><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif><STRONG><A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Click he= re and see=20 items</A></STRONG>, Price: $ 36.99<BR>By: <A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Click he= re</A> <BR>Sold by:=20 Amazon Digital Services, Inc.</FONT></TD></TR><BR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3D2><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif></FONT></TD></T= R></TBODY></TABLE> <HR SIZE=3D1 noShade> <P>The charge for this order will appear on your credit card=20 statement from the merchant 'AMZN Payment Services.'</P> <P>You can review your orders in <A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Your Account</= A>. If you've=20 explored the links on that page but still have a question, plea= se=20 visit our online <A href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D= 14">Help=20 Department</A>.</P> <P>Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only=20 address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply= to=20 this message.</P> <P>Thanks again for shopping with us.</P> <P><B><A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Amazon.com</A>= </B><BR><B>Earth's=20 Biggest Selection</B></P> <P><IMG border=3D0 alt=3D"unsubscribe icon"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/cs-email/icon-unsub= scribe.gif">=20 Prefer not to receive HTML mail? <A=20 href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Click=20 here</A></P></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TA= BLE></DIV> </BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2899.EE3948B0-- From enthralsh9@sews-cabind.it Wed Jul 21 00:04:04 2010 Return-Path: <enthralsh9@sews-cabind.it> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5D03A69BC; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:04:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK=0.001, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IuY17MBo175U; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h117.176.216.66.static.ip.windstream.net (h117.176.216.66.static.ip.windstream.net [66.216.176.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177C93A681F; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb28a2$c2aef510$6400a8c0@enthralsh9> From: "Amazon.com E-mail Subscriptions" <delivers@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:03:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_77A7_01CB28A2.C2AEF510" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_77A7_01CB28A2.C2AEF510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazon.com Delivers: Verify Your New E-mail Address http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org, You recently changed your e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a sub= scriber of Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verif= y your new e-mail address=2E Please verify that the e-mail address belongs to you. You can click on the= link below to complete the verification process=2E http://www.amazon.com If you no longer wish to receive Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, = you can unsubscribe here=2E http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss/manage Please note that this message was sent to the following e-mail address: dns= ext-archive@ietf.org Help: http://www.amazon.com/help/gss Conditions of Use: http://www.amazon.com/help/conditionsofuse Privacy Notice: http://www.amazon.com/help/privacynotice (c) 1995-2006, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates=2E ------=_NextPart_000_77A7_01CB28A2.C2AEF510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-125= 2"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <html><head><title>Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address</title= ></head><body bgcolor"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#003399" vlink=3D"#= 003399"> <div align=3D"center"> <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"580"> <tbody><tr> <td valign=3D"top"><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D= "0" width=3D"100%"> <tbody><tr>=20 <td><a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14"><img src=3D= "http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/v4/email-images/delive= rs2007-logo._V192258722_.gif" width=3D"168" height=3D"35" border=3D"0" /></= a><br /> <span style=3D"font-size: 13pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 153, 204); font-weight: bold;">Verify Your New E-mail Address</span></td> <td align=3D"right"><a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D= 14"><img src=3D"http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/gss/ama= zon-logo-small._V192258779_.gif" width=3D"99" height=3D"20" border=3D"0" />= </a></td> </tr></tbody> </table> <hr style=3D"color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" noshade=3D"noshade" size=3D"1"= /> <table style=3D"padding-top: 12px;" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cell= spacing=3D"0" width=3D"100%"> <tbody><tr>=20 <td style=3D"font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><p>= Dear <strong>dnsext-archive@ietf.org</strong>,</p> <p>You recently changed= your e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a subscriber of Amazon.co= m Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verify your new e-mail ad= dress. </p> <p>Please verify that the e-mail address <strong>dnsext-archive= @ietf.org</strong> belongs to you. You can click on the link below to compl= ete the verification process.</p> =20 <p align=3D"center"><a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D= 14"><img src=3D"http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/gss/con= firm._V192258770_.gif" width=3D"67" align=3D"middle" height=3D"24" border=3D= "0" /></a><br> =20 </p> <p> Alternatively, you can type or paste the following link into yo= ur Web browser:<br /> <strong><a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid= =3D14" style=3D"color: #003399">http://www.amazon.com</a></strong></p> =20 </td> </tr></tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,san= s-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-top: 12px;"> <hr style=3D"border-top: 1px dashed #cc9;" clear=3D"all" noshade=3D"t= rue" size=3D"1"><br /> If you no longer wish to receive Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, = you can <a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php?pid=3D14">unsubscribe her= e</a>=2E =20 <p align=3D"center">Please note that this message was sent to the following= e-mail address: dnsext-archive@ietf.org<br /><a href=3D"http://kubdirect.c= om/index.php?pid=3D14">Help</a> | <a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.php= ?pid=3D14">Conditions of Use</a> | <a href=3D"http://kubdirect.com/index.ph= p?pid=3D14">Privacy Notice</a> © 1995-2006, Amazon.com, Inc. or its af= filiates.</p> =20 </td> </tr></tbody> </table> </div> </body></html></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_77A7_01CB28A2.C2AEF510-- From naplesu@shermanep.com Wed Jul 21 01:22:52 2010 Return-Path: <naplesu@shermanep.com> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE4F13A6B71; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 01:22:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -54.258 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-54.258 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EMXrbnilfVGI; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 01:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 246.pool80-103-140.dynamic.orange.es (246.pool80-103-140.dynamic.orange.es [80.103.140.246]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8B03A68B3; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 01:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb28ad$d5e15a00$6400a8c0@naplesu> From: "Amazon.com" <digital-no-reply@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your Amazon.com Order (D00-3564536-5266693) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:22:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB28AD.D5E15A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB28AD.D5E15A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@ietf.org Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 hours= a=20 day? Visit Your=20 Account=2E =20 =20 =20 =20 Order=20 Information: =20 =20 =20 =20 E-mail Address:  dnsext-archive@ietf.org =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Order Grand Total: $=20 87.99=20 =20 =20 Earn 3% rewards=20 on your Amazon.com orders with the Amazon Visa Card. Lear= n More=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Order=20 Summary: =20 =20 =20 Details: =20 =20 =20 Order=20 #: D17-7407106-1061699 =20 Subtotal=20 of items:=20 $ 32.99=20 =20 =20 =20 ------ =20 Total=20 before tax:=20 $ 72.99=20 =20 =20 Sales=20 Tax:=20 $ 0.00=20 =20 =20 =20 ------ =20 Total=20 for this Order:=20 $=20 31.99 The following=20 item was ordered:=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Click here and see=20 items, Price: $ 62.99By: Click here Sold by:=20 Amazon Digital Services, Inc=2E =20 =20 =20 The charge for this order will appear on your credit card=20 statement from the merchant 'AMZN Payment Services.' You can review your orders in Your Account. If you've=20 explored the links on that page but still have a question, plea= se=20 visit our online Help=20 Department=2E Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only=20 address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply= to=20 this message=2E Thanks again for shopping with us=2E Amazon.comEarth's=20 Biggest Selection =20 Prefer not to receive HTML mail? Click=20 here ------=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB28AD.D5E15A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-125= 2"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D10 width=3D"100%" align=3Dc= enter> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dcenter> <TD align=3Dleft><A href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14"><IMG b= order=3D0=20 alt=3D"Amazon.com logo"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/marketing/logo-and-your-d= one.gif"></A>=20 </TD> <TD align=3Dright><IMG border=3D0 alt=3D"your account"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/nav/personalized/cartwish= /right-topnav-digital.gif"=20 useMap=3D#right_top_nav_map> <MAP name=3Dright_top_nav_map><AREA=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14" shape=3Drect coords=3D= 0,0,102,21><AREA=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14" shape=3Drect=20 coords=3D105,0,145,21></MAP><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"90%" bgColor=3D#= 006699=20 align=3Dcenter> <TBODY> <TR> <TD> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D5 width=3D"100%" alig= n=3Dcenter> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dtop> <TD bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvet= ica> <P><B>Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@ietf.org</B></P> <P>Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 ho= urs a=20 day? Visit <A href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Your= =20 Account</A>.</P> <P> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#006699><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order=20 Information:</B></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica> <P><B>E-mail Address:</B>  dnsext-archive@ietf.org</= P> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100= %"> <TBODY> <TR><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order Grand T= otal: $=20 87.99</B></FONT> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD= > <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"50%"><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD></TR></T= BODY></TABLE></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>Earn 3% = rewards=20 on your Amazon.com orders with the Amazon Visa Card. <A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Learn More</= A></FONT>=20 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <P> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#006699><FONT color=3D#ffffff size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Order=20 Summary:</B></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D4 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD bgColor=3D#eeeeee><FONT color=3D#cc6600 size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>Details:</B></FONT></TD= ></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D1 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><= B>Order=20 #:</B></FONT></TD> <TD width=3D"98%"><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helv= etica><A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">D17-7407106-= 1061699</A></FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>S= ubtotal=20 of items: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 32.99=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD></TD> <TD>------</TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>T= otal=20 before tax: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 72.99=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>S= ales=20 Tax: </FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica>$ 0.00=20 </FONT></TD></TR> <TR> <TD></TD> <TD>------</TD></TR> <TR> <TD noWrap><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><= B>Total=20 for this Order: </B></FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica><B>$=20 31.99</B> </FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>The follow= ing=20 item was ordered:=20 <TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D2 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D"100%= "> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=3Dtop> <TD width=3D20><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica></FONT></TD> <TD><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif><STRONG><A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Click here a= nd see=20 items</A></STRONG>, Price: $ 62.99<BR>By: <A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Click here</= A> <BR>Sold by:=20 Amazon Digital Services, Inc.</FONT></TD></TR><BR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3D2><FONT size=3D-1=20 face=3Dverdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif></FONT></TD></T= R></TBODY></TABLE> <HR SIZE=3D1 noShade> <P>The charge for this order will appear on your credit card=20 statement from the merchant 'AMZN Payment Services.'</P> <P>You can review your orders in <A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Your Account</A>. = If you've=20 explored the links on that page but still have a question, plea= se=20 visit our online <A href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14= ">Help=20 Department</A>.</P> <P>Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only=20 address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply= to=20 this message.</P> <P>Thanks again for shopping with us.</P> <P><B><A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Amazon.com</A></B>= <BR><B>Earth's=20 Biggest Selection</B></P> <P><IMG border=3D0 alt=3D"unsubscribe icon"=20 src=3D"http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/cs-email/icon-unsub= scribe.gif">=20 Prefer not to receive HTML mail? <A=20 href=3D"http://hokue.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Click=20 here</A></P></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TA= BLE></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB28AD.D5E15A00-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Wed Jul 21 02:00:30 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EA03A6905 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:00:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <VdRNbHIXCVrg> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -27%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.980, BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VdRNbHIXCVrg for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 204-236-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net (204-236-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net [178.93.236.204]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D4F23A6855 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:00:25 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -27% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100721090025.7D4F23A6855@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:00:25 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 896px"> <tr><td align="center" style="font: normal 11px Verdana, sans-serif; color: #333;"><a href="http://xzg.drugat.ru?kmkh=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" style="text-decoration: none; color: #0099ff;">Click here. </td></tr> <tr><td align="center"> <br /> <a href="http://yiv.drugat.ru?prmx=dnsext-archive@ietf.org"><img alt="Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org" src="http://oxm.drugat.ru/b.gif" style="border-width: 0px" /></a></td></tr> </table> </body> </html> From cedarz8@stowe.com Wed Jul 21 03:41:46 2010 Return-Path: <cedarz8@stowe.com> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581063A685E; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:41:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -48.173 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-48.173 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK=0.001, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IJEVZRLMf2Q; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host103-83-static.227-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it (host103-83-static.227-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it [95.227.83.103]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCC33A69F4; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 03:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb28c1$48e138f0$6400a8c0@cedarz8> From: "Amazon.com E-mail Subscriptions" <delivers@amazon.com> To: <dix-request@ietf.org> Subject: Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:41:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01C7_01CB28C1.48E138F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01C7_01CB28C1.48E138F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazon.com Delivers: Verify Your New E-mail Address http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss Dear dix-request@ietf.org, You recently changed your e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a sub= scriber of Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verif= y your new e-mail address=2E Please verify that the e-mail address belongs to you. You can click on the= link below to complete the verification process=2E http://www.amazon.com If you no longer wish to receive Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, = you can unsubscribe here=2E http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss/manage Please note that this message was sent to the following e-mail address: dix= -request@ietf.org Help: http://www.amazon.com/help/gss Conditions of Use: http://www.amazon.com/help/conditionsofuse Privacy Notice: http://www.amazon.com/help/privacynotice (c) 1995-2006, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates=2E ------=_NextPart_000_01C7_01CB28C1.48E138F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"= > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <html><head><title>Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address</title= ></head><body bgcolor"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#003399" vlink=3D"#= 003399"> <div align=3D"center"> <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"580"> <tbody><tr> <td valign=3D"top"><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D= "0" width=3D"100%"> <tbody><tr>=20 <td><a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D14"><img src=3D"htt= p://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/v4/email-images/delivers20= 07-logo._V192258722_.gif" width=3D"168" height=3D"35" border=3D"0" /></a><b= r /> <span style=3D"font-size: 13pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 153, 204); font-weight: bold;">Verify Your New E-mail Address</span></td> <td align=3D"right"><a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D14"= ><img src=3D"http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/gss/amazon= -logo-small._V192258779_.gif" width=3D"99" height=3D"20" border=3D"0" /></a= ></td> </tr></tbody> </table> <hr style=3D"color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" noshade=3D"noshade" size=3D"1"= /> <table style=3D"padding-top: 12px;" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cell= spacing=3D"0" width=3D"100%"> <tbody><tr>=20 <td style=3D"font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><p>= Dear <strong>dix-request@ietf.org</strong>,</p> <p>You recently changed yo= ur e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a subscriber of Amazon.com D= elivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verify your new e-mail addre= ss. </p> <p>Please verify that the e-mail address <strong>dix-request@ietf.= org</strong> belongs to you. You can click on the link below to complete th= e verification process.</p> =20 <p align=3D"center"><a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D14"= ><img src=3D"http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/gss/confir= m._V192258770_.gif" width=3D"67" align=3D"middle" height=3D"24" border=3D"0= " /></a><br> =20 </p> <p> Alternatively, you can type or paste the following link into yo= ur Web browser:<br /> <strong><a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D1= 4" style=3D"color: #003399">http://www.amazon.com</a></strong></p> =20 </td> </tr></tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,san= s-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-top: 12px;"> <hr style=3D"border-top: 1px dashed #cc9;" clear=3D"all" noshade=3D"t= rue" size=3D"1"><br /> If you no longer wish to receive Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, = you can <a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D14">unsubscribe here</a= >=2E =20 <p align=3D"center">Please note that this message was sent to the following= e-mail address: dix-request@ietf.org<br /><a href=3D"http://iskum.com/inde= x.php?pid=3D14">Help</a> | <a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D14">= Conditions of Use</a> | <a href=3D"http://iskum.com/index.php?pid=3D14">Pri= vacy Notice</a> © 1995-2006, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.</p> =20 </td> </tr></tbody> </table> </div> </body></html></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_01C7_01CB28C1.48E138F0-- From indecorousn@stantonemechanical.com Wed Jul 21 05:11:25 2010 Return-Path: <indecorousn@stantonemechanical.com> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066F13A68A0; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -19.654 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.654 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK=0.001, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V77uNrp4Up7v; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c-67-191-222-16.hsd1.ga.comcast.net (c-67-191-222-16.hsd1.ga.comcast.net [67.191.222.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F183A687E; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb28cd$c08835f0$6400a8c0@indecorousn> From: "Amazon.com E-mail Subscriptions" <delivers@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:10:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_E5D7_01CB28CD.C08835F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_E5D7_01CB28CD.C08835F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazon.com Delivers: Verify Your New E-mail Address http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org, You recently changed your e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a sub= scriber of Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verif= y your new e-mail address=2E Please verify that the e-mail address belongs to you. You can click on the= link below to complete the verification process=2E http://www.amazon.com If you no longer wish to receive Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, = you can unsubscribe here=2E http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss/manage Please note that this message was sent to the following e-mail address: dns= ext-archive@ietf.org Help: http://www.amazon.com/help/gss Conditions of Use: http://www.amazon.com/help/conditionsofuse Privacy Notice: http://www.amazon.com/help/privacynotice (c) 1995-2006, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates=2E ------=_NextPart_000_E5D7_01CB28CD.C08835F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-125= 2"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <html><head><title>Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address</title= ></head><body bgcolor"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000" link=3D"#003399" vlink=3D"#= 003399"> <div align=3D"center"> <table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"580"> <tbody><tr> <td valign=3D"top"><table border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D= "0" width=3D"100%"> <tbody><tr>=20 <td><a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid=3D14"><img src=3D"h= ttp://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/v4/email-images/delivers= 2007-logo._V192258722_.gif" width=3D"168" height=3D"35" border=3D"0" /></a>= <br /> <span style=3D"font-size: 13pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 153, 204); font-weight: bold;">Verify Your New E-mail Address</span></td> <td align=3D"right"><a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid=3D1= 4"><img src=3D"http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/gss/amaz= on-logo-small._V192258779_.gif" width=3D"99" height=3D"20" border=3D"0" /><= /a></td> </tr></tbody> </table> <hr style=3D"color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" noshade=3D"noshade" size=3D"1"= /> <table style=3D"padding-top: 12px;" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cell= spacing=3D"0" width=3D"100%"> <tbody><tr>=20 <td style=3D"font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><p>= Dear <strong>dnsext-archive@ietf.org</strong>,</p> <p>You recently changed= your e-mail address at Amazon.com. Since you are a subscriber of Amazon.co= m Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, you will need to verify your new e-mail ad= dress. </p> <p>Please verify that the e-mail address <strong>dnsext-archive= @ietf.org</strong> belongs to you. You can click on the link below to compl= ete the verification process.</p> =20 <p align=3D"center"><a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid=3D1= 4"><img src=3D"http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/delivers/gss/conf= irm._V192258770_.gif" width=3D"67" align=3D"middle" height=3D"24" border=3D= "0" /></a><br> =20 </p> <p> Alternatively, you can type or paste the following link into yo= ur Web browser:<br /> <strong><a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid=3D= 14" style=3D"color: #003399">http://www.amazon.com</a></strong></p> =20 </td> </tr></tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td style=3D"font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,san= s-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-top: 12px;"> <hr style=3D"border-top: 1px dashed #cc9;" clear=3D"all" noshade=3D"t= rue" size=3D"1"><br /> If you no longer wish to receive Amazon.com Delivers E-mail Subscriptions, = you can <a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid=3D14">unsubscribe here<= /a>=2E =20 <p align=3D"center">Please note that this message was sent to the following= e-mail address: dnsext-archive@ietf.org<br /><a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com= /index.php?pid=3D14">Help</a> | <a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid= =3D14">Conditions of Use</a> | <a href=3D"http://kuenlun.com/index.php?pid=3D= 14">Privacy Notice</a> © 1995-2006, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates= </p> =20 </td> </tr></tbody> </table> </div> </body></html></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_E5D7_01CB28CD.C08835F0-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 06:56:19 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4093A6A1F; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:56:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VWXMEtQvXHjI; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540163A6359; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObZec-000AH1-9q for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:48:10 +0000 Received: from [193.227.124.2] (helo=mx01.bfk.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <fweimer@bfk.de>) id 1ObZeW-000AG8-9f for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:48:04 +0000 Received: from mx00.int.bfk.de ([10.119.110.2]) by mx01.bfk.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1ObZeK-0006yA-TS; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:47:52 +0000 Received: by bfk.de with local id 1ObZeK-0005xD-ON; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:47:52 +0000 To: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> Cc: "Douglas Otis" <dotis@mail-abuse.org>, <fujiwara@jprs.co.jp>, <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <479677674.24408@cnnic.cn> From: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:47:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: <479677674.24408@cnnic.cn> (Jiankang YAO's message of "Wed\, 21 Jul 2010 10\:01\:23 +0800") Message-ID: <82mxtleyk7.fsf@mid.bfk.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> * Jiankang YAO: > this is the software configuration problem. if the recipient > configure a MX alias in the DNS, it is strange that he does not > configure the software to accep it. Other MTAs reject mail because the MX name is not canonical. Such checks are applied to both sender and recipient addresses. It is not a local configuration issue. Existing RFCs arguably make it acceptable to reject mail for these reasons (because using non-canonical names is a protocol violation, and that restriction probably made sense at some point). --=20 Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/ Kriegsstra=DFe 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1 D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 07:30:50 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A493A6B66; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:30:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.898, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZJ7XEC2vDgob; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C47B3A6B7D; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObaF9-000GGD-7N for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:25:55 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <ondrej.sury@nic.cz>) id 1ObaF6-000GFv-Lk for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:25:53 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:224:e8ff:fea9:f617]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AEBF73452C; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:25:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C47036F.7050803@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:25:51 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= <ondrej.sury@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnssec-deployment@dnssec-deployment.org, "<tech@lists.centr.org>" <tech@lists.centr.org>, 78attendees@ietf.org, "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>, dnsop@ietf.org, tls@ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Re: TLS@DNSSEC bar BoF References: <4C459BB0.1000208@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <4C459BB0.1000208@nic.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> Hi, sorry for crossposting again (now tls, dnsext and dnsop WGs has been added). The date for the BoF has been set, it will be Monday 26.7.2010 from 21:00. Now I need to find a room for 30+ people. If you have tips please mail me privately. Thanks, Ondrej On 20.7.2010 14:50, OndÅ™ej Surý wrote: > Hi, > > it seems there are so many people working/thinking on CERTs in DNS > powered by DNSSEC. > > Now that we have a secure chain from DNS root to DNS leaf, it seems to > be viable solution to link that with TLS security and put some info > about certificates to DNS. > > The outcome of this BoF is more like to gather people who are > interesting to do a further work on this idea, to collect all the ideas > floating around and possibly to centralize all those efforts together > into one working group. > > > So I have created Doodle poll for bar BoF: > > http://www.doodle.com/myt3hkwwz8nmi6zk > > Please vote (ASAP) if you intend to come. I'll try to close the poll > soonish enough, so we have a time to request a room (or bar :)). > > I have also put the info on > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/BarBofsIETF78 > > And if you intend to come please read: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4398 > > http://stupid.domain.name/ietf/draft-schlyter-pkix-dns-02.txt > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dns-rrtype-applications/current/msg00008.html > (and the related discussion on namedroppers list) > > http://dnssec-deployment.org/pipermail/dnssec-deployment/2010-July/004169.html > (whole thread) > > Ondrej Ondrej -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 07:52:39 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7A93A6BD3; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:52:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.942 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.942 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.447, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e+VagMOsZfDD; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5E23A6BE0; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObaaB-000Jsf-Oh for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:47:39 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hallam@gmail.com>) id 1Obaa8-000Js1-Oq for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:47:37 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so7414190iwn.11 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=h8Al3X09c7E7i8+1kr1bXG7yOSmaPFc3eaPwOQS8YSg=; b=d8Qmzjt/8zjHUWPLRoIQ+ZoTLssfFE2PWSxLhOIc4v5LnWlYYt1Z3BRHDmQPkofm5C 7AQvegotOAc9FbKGFGKhbpVO8QVEh6lyUtJ1QdOPU8Eeqkb9O5GqK9yBXzg8IA/rgHoN qp1j6HHR9LmACCLrCvHq6lXbwai42jXyLPzSU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=i1/DpWzP8RXzID+rMafY64v28fw8jslX5dCvsL6FTC1Hqu38AxuNzSpWAH2rL+njdz fQqBfhJAG/3Z+l1bagL0XhMIzch0JdHTVMOfOWXPNIjFoCHOlpiBJExjo+GJE/52Ozx+ QhpF+KzHVOghJSI6eZRa7jT9v4Pd7JTEcCZjQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.32.12 with SMTP id a12mr209361ibd.134.1279723638010; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <82mxtleyk7.fsf@mid.bfk.de> References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <479677674.24408@cnnic.cn> <82mxtleyk7.fsf@mid.bfk.de> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:47:17 -0400 Message-ID: <AANLkTinmW7LKLT33LVt9LzqzGcL7naHW_eLXPe6JT0qB@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> To: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> Cc: Jiankang YAO <yaojk@cnnic.cn>, Douglas Otis <dotis@mail-abuse.org>, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> Its even worse than that. Mail systems will reject mail according to criteria that are opaque and inconsistent. Spam has made what was once an open protocol into a black art. One of the main reasons I use gmail is that I know that they have a very high probability of being able to deliver the message. Mail servers are a very bad choice of application to make generalizations from as a result. cnames have the use restrictions they do because they make sense for cnames. That does not mean that we have to apply the same restrictions for bnames just for symmetry. The real question here is whether it is possible to somehow extend the DNS protocol and infrastructure to reduce the amount of data that must be queried and cached when we have two names for what is essentially the same DNS sub tree. The protocol is a no-brainer, done. The devil is in the infrastructure. The approach proposed looks pretty sensible to me. bname is not going to be a facility that most DNS infrastructure understands for quite some time. So there is going to have to be some form of 'fixup'. There are going to be bname aware clients/caches and bname-unaware clients/caches. And that might be a simple expansion or might have to be a little more elaborate to take care of corner-cases which email might turn out to be. There is inevitably going to be a series of corner cases thrown up by DNSSEC if the client attempts to perform end-to-end verification and the cache is bname aware but not the client. What that says to me is that we better hurry up and do this fast or else there is going to be infrastructure built up that has to be worked round. But one consequence of bname that I think has to be taken on board is that it is not going to be possible to edit the zone files by hand. This is of course already the case for people using DNSSEC. But if bname is going to be used on any scale where it is going to make sense, the shadow domain tree to support legacy clients is going to have to be generated automatically. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> wrote: > * Jiankang YAO: > >> this is the software configuration problem. =A0if the recipient >> configure a MX alias in the DNS, it is strange that he does not >> configure the software to accep it. > > Other MTAs reject mail because the MX name is not canonical. > Such checks are applied to both sender and recipient addresses. > It is not a local configuration issue. =A0Existing RFCs arguably > make it acceptable to reject mail for these reasons (because > using non-canonical names is a protocol violation, and that > restriction probably made sense at some point). > > -- > Florian Weimer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<fweimer@bfk.de> > BFK edv-consulting GmbH =A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.bfk.de/ > Kriegsstra=DFe 100 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0tel: +49-721-96201-1 > D-76133 Karlsruhe =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 fax: +49-721-96201-99 > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From designersugs696@sf.ag Wed Jul 21 09:12:46 2010 Return-Path: <designersugs696@sf.ag> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A553D3A6AF4; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:12:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.803 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.803 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.058, BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yU3lbwRJrmPl; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip-109-248-151-224.broadband.etherway.ru (ip-109-248-151-224.broadband.etherway.ru [109.248.151.224]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE873A6AFC; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000d01cb28ef$95543650$6400a8c0@designersugs696> From: "Amazon.com" <digital-no-reply@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Subject: Your Amazon.com Order (D71-7020932-2834150) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:12:57 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB28EF.95543650" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_002_000F_01CB28EF.95543650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@ietf.org Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 hours= a=20 day? 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List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> Dear colleagues, The latest, revised agenda for the IETF meetings is up. Please contact us as soon as possible if you see something either missing that ought to be there, or something that ought not to be but is. If you have a _new_ request for time in the meeting, I expect we will not allow it. We asked some time ago for requests, and what you see now is in accordance with what we received. CHARTER ======= I note that there has been very little discussion of the draft charter, except that we've had a couple proposals to shorten timelines. Is there really nothing else to say on this? If so, we can steal some time from the 25 minutes on the agenda already devoted to the topic of the charter, and use it for the aliasing discussion (which already threatens to take over the agenda). Is there even one objection from anyone to any of the proposed charter (see http://www.psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2010/msg01836.html if you don't remember it), apart from the dates? If we hear nothing before Sunday, we may adjust the agenda to take more of that 25 minutes away. MEETING MATERIALS ================= If you plan to speak to your draft during the session, and you have materials you want to be up on the screen, you MUST send me those materials by Sunday 19:00 local time for Monday's session, and by Tuesday 19:00 local time for Wednesday's session. We will not pause to accept new materials during the meeting, or to upload them. If we have not posted the files prior to the meeting session, they won't go up on the screen. You may send files to me in PowerPoint or PDF formats. Please don't send Keynote files, because I don't believe we'll be able to project them. SCRIBES AND JABBER SCRIBES ========================== Anyone wishing to perform one of these invaluable services to the WG is encouraged to contact Olafur or me (or ideally, both, at dnsext-chairs@tools.ietf.org) in advance of the meeting to get this sorted. If you're a new participant in the WG, this is an excellent way to dive into participation, and I encourage you to volunteer. (Note that your newness will also give us an even greater reason to harass people for not speaking their names into the mics.) TWO SESSIONS ============ A reminder that we have two sessions at this IETF meeting, but only one of them is really devoted to detailed DNS topics. The second session is intended to get input from the wider IETF community, so we expect participants in the WG meetings who may not have as great a grasp of DNS fundamentals as we might usually expect. Be nice ;-) Best regards, Andrew -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 15:15:35 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B683A6986; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:15:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.418, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L8TnNq7gO2Y5; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328313A69FB; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObhSf-0006Tj-KV for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:08:21 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hallam@gmail.com>) id 1ObhSb-0006Rv-LZ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:08:18 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so7824657iwn.11 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FaIKsoK8UzF5V3CTjWE+hguu+H7IPEh4NbFQk4UIOgM=; b=Woeg9KfigMzNDtor9V+ESBshO3D/3eVYIWjYWbhF8qq+lrSgZ15I75QmQRcYqE9ptD urreN7JZZJSYTw79uNnHG3tEu0a53c+KFKSBPRp06s3kwUeKDU4i46BWhgAY0Xco2mEF jKUDCHeT47ekOodi2xYgK3Al7aGwzmzZ0i5Z8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=LdE03YfGn7aDGGCOAGGLl0dw4rwkZwcrYYbilVgyML6yODRMLqXsOZTNOzJ607ra1s oHphpbBYyi5VuHwm3xOYrc/s9PebEHcXelLa0lapoxuG4XZOsd2S7GgsWgHLRZiP+Fzk XFO/sZdXwHWnClGgJ4oNEkECpGDqcZRWgcnug= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.157.207 with SMTP id c15mr585541ibx.143.1279750071100; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: <AANLkTing2viCKHUUCrdkKDZa2_iJIoRnW3Fpt4LBkZ1E@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Charter Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> It is not clear to me quite where DNS Curve fits in the charter. While DNS Curve looks like a useful feature, it is not clear to me that it is the best way to do what it is attempting or that what it is attempting is what is most needed. I would like to look at that type of approach but starting with a look at the larger picture and requirements. For example, we have a TSIG mechanism that works fairly well except for the need to use a symmetric key as the means of authentication. If we are going to have a key exchange, wouldn't it be nice to be able to use it for both purposes? For example, why adopt ECC as the crypto mechanism? Shouldn't this be a protocol option? I can see some good arguments for using ECC in DNSSEC, shorter signatures for example. But I can also see reasons why I would much prefer to use RSA. It is not clear to me what requirements or use cases this proposal is meant to meet. That makes it difficult to evaluate the engineering choices. Is this targeted at use within a domain or across domains? I think this is work the group should look at but it is not clear to me that this is currently covered in the charter, (in part because it is not entirely clear to me what DNS Curve is meant to be). The other concrete proposal I would like to make is adding a bullet point to cover is interaction of DNSSEC and X.509 certs. It is very clear that there is an expectations gap between what informed commentators realize DNSSEC is designed to provide and what other people think it will solve. One solution to this gap is to educate people so that they understand the limitations of DNSSEC (yeah, good luck with that), a better solution is work on ways to achieve the effect they want. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > The latest, revised agenda for the IETF meetings is up. =A0Please > contact us as soon as possible if you see something either missing > that ought to be there, or something that ought not to be but is. =A0If > you have a _new_ request for time in the meeting, I expect we will not > allow it. =A0We asked some time ago for requests, and what you see now > is in accordance with what we received. > > CHARTER > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > I note that there has been very little discussion of the draft > charter, except that we've had a couple proposals to shorten > timelines. =A0Is there really nothing else to say on this? =A0If so, we > can steal some time from the 25 minutes on the agenda already devoted > to the topic of the charter, and use it for the aliasing discussion > (which already threatens to take over the agenda). =A0Is there even one > objection from anyone to any of the proposed charter (see > http://www.psg.com/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.2010/msg01836.html > if you don't remember it), apart from the dates? =A0If we hear nothing > before Sunday, we may adjust the agenda to take more of that 25 > minutes away. > > MEETING MATERIALS > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > If you plan to speak to your draft during the session, and you have > materials you want to be up on the screen, you MUST send me those > materials by Sunday 19:00 local time for Monday's session, and by > Tuesday 19:00 local time for Wednesday's session. =A0We will not pause > to accept new materials during the meeting, or to upload them. =A0If we > have not posted the files prior to the meeting session, they won't go > up on the screen. =A0You may send files to me in PowerPoint or PDF > formats. =A0Please don't send Keynote files, because I don't believe > we'll be able to project them. > > SCRIBES AND JABBER SCRIBES > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D > > Anyone wishing to perform one of these invaluable services to the WG > is encouraged to contact Olafur or me (or ideally, both, at > dnsext-chairs@tools.ietf.org) in advance of the meeting to get this > sorted. =A0If you're a new participant in the WG, this is an excellent > way to dive into participation, and I encourage you to volunteer. > (Note that your newness will also give us an even greater reason to > harass people for not speaking their names into the mics.) > > TWO SESSIONS > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > A reminder that we have two sessions at this IETF meeting, but only > one of them is really devoted to detailed DNS topics. =A0The second > session is intended to get input from the wider IETF community, so we > expect participants in the WG meetings who may not have as great a > grasp of DNS fundamentals as we might usually expect. =A0Be nice ;-) > > Best regards, > > Andrew > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@shinkuro.com > Shinkuro, Inc. > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 15:52:55 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE913A6863; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.358 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.358 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.241, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3g6L5zFTazCe; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CD33A6857; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1Obi3h-000BAC-12 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:37 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <vixie@vix.com>) id 1Obi3e-000B9j-Ed for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:34 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 759F5A1051 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:41:28 -0400." <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:31 +0000 Message-ID: <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:41:28 -0400 > From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> > ... > CHARTER > ======= > > I note that there has been very little discussion of the draft > charter, except that we've had a couple proposals to shorten > timelines. Is there really nothing else to say on this? ... i consider the comments i made, which had the following headers... +--- | From: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> | To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org | Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion | In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:06:41 -0400." | <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> | References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> | Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:54:36 +0000 | Message-ID: <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> +--- ...to have been substantive. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 19:21:38 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D739A3A6BC8; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:21:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.635 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.635 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.161, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NRVF+AVDl2Qo; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9453A6B03; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1OblGw-000Ahq-4u for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:12:30 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <ajs@shinkuro.com>) id 1OblGt-000AhF-HI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:12:27 +0000 Received: from [172.16.33.106] (69-196-144-230.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C5D41ECB408; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:12:25 +0000 (UTC) References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 8A306) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <9E209941-FCA0-4531-9D4E-68B7D310D2BB@shinkuro.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (8A306) From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:12:34 -0400 To: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> Oh, stupid me. My apologies. You're right. No stealing of time. Sorry for fo= rgetting about this & thanks for the reminder.=20 --=20 Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> On 2010-07-21, at 18:46, Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> wrote: >> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:41:28 -0400 >> From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> >> ... >> CHARTER >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> I note that there has been very little discussion of the draft >> charter, except that we've had a couple proposals to shorten >> timelines. Is there really nothing else to say on this? ... >=20 > i consider the comments i made, which had the following headers... >=20 > +--- > | From: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> > | To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > | Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion=20= > | In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:06:41 -0400." > | <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com>=20 > | References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com>=20 > | Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:54:36 +0000 > | Message-ID: <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> > +--- >=20 > ...to have been substantive. >=20 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 19:58:13 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD103A68F5; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:58:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.052, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fuVoHExDKw2R; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052F13A6892; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1OblvO-000FaQ-D4 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:54:18 +0000 Received: from [2001:500:60::65] (helo=mx.ams1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <marka@isc.org>) id 1OblvM-000FYA-1d for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:54:16 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E67E5F985D; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:53:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (drugs.dv.isc.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f00:820:214:22ff:fed9:fbdc]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (not verified)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73CF2E6032; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:53:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6M2rjkd062160; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:53:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <201007220253.o6M2rjkd062160@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> Cc: "Jiankang YAO" <yaojk@cnnic.cn>, "Douglas Otis" <dotis@mail-abuse.org>, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> References: <477695377.29471@cnnic.cn> <478502476.24600@cnnic.cn> <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <479677674.24408@cnnic.cn> <82mxtleyk7.fsf@mid.bfk.de> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:47:52 GMT." <82mxtleyk7.fsf@mid.bfk.de> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:53:45 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> In message <82mxtleyk7.fsf@mid.bfk.de>, Florian Weimer writes: > * Jiankang YAO: > > > this is the software configuration problem. if the recipient > > configure a MX alias in the DNS, it is strange that he does not > > configure the software to accep it. > > Other MTAs reject mail because the MX name is not canonical. > Such checks are applied to both sender and recipient addresses. > It is not a local configuration issue. Existing RFCs arguably > make it acceptable to reject mail for these reasons (because > using non-canonical names is a protocol violation, and that > restriction probably made sense at some point). The restictions are against aliases (cnames are just one form of aliasing) and are there to allow MX processing to work without having to lookup the addresses records of every mail exchanger in the MX RRset to work out whether you should attempt to forward the email, store it or generate a error message when delivery is not to be performed. The restriction is there because SMTP is a store and forward protocol. SRV inherited the restriction but it is really only needed for those protocols that are store and forward or which the name of the server is to be used to authenticate the connection. SMTP clients are also supposed to use the mail exchanger name to authenticate the connection by checking the name given by the server but most don't leading to successful mitm attacks. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 21 19:59:38 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F9A3A6892; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:59:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.991 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.991 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.496, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xXl0BsaKE4bx; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C24EE3A6833; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1OblxL-000FpR-Ey for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:56:19 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hallam@gmail.com>) id 1OblxI-000Fp9-Pg for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:56:16 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so8220800iwn.11 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:56:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=22rtO9pO40FYjmGu8pMqFjtfBu4X+cJJoSsdiDN5NFA=; b=AauMgbMaBNHyZ3BTDkbPcX80r3v/+xrck8I6ghrf517zk3nfrg0bxt+U2xVjWYgubu U43NlXbbKVliEqsLVusWZdbIjM18UmIl6LTNz3gJZ1fHo5HHcPJQNSTbRZTTXcsNouQ/ ++WGyTXFe1sq0dlULdwMM2goY70ENl9vkjRV8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=vb5BX6uWdI2p25B3OdvCh2ITHdMeexdOod0fcwnczf6Q/AL0YpH1H1KJj6nPuoHwSd tqtaIfwjXI8nnYPh7N2U9kFvajliX4qp/8Tf+47U+EsmdPWlCcqEK92yv5Yjwiom4O3X THFgJD+/33CTVxiuSXFzv1YdZ1bQ9RNqKC4Ig= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.34.11 with SMTP id j11mr1159659ibd.120.1279767376007; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:56:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:56:15 -0400 Message-ID: <AANLkTimnoJ7NYnRs-IVAykNMffks_-4JdkhzcgiP3Kyr@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> To: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> "* Last mile (recursive to stub) mechanisms that complement, or are alternatives to, TSIG and SIG(0); specifically including stub DNSSEC validation and protocol extensions to support same." This bullet point almost addresses the first set of concerns I raised. I like what DNS Curve is trying to do. But I think that the same objective might be achieved more simply and easily by beefing up TSIG to add a simple key exchange protocol. It is possible that we would want to go one step further and introduce a slightly more elaborate packet format so that we could use a ticket type system to tell the server what key to use for signature. This is not the only case where channel security is useful though. I have been setting up a home DNS for testing recently and it soon becomes apparent that dynamic DNS is cool, but I would really like to use asymmetric keying. So I agree with Paul's objective here, there is a set of problems for which channel security works, but it certainly does not address every DNS authentication need. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> wrote: >> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:41:28 -0400 >> From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@shinkuro.com> >> ... >> CHARTER >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> I note that there has been very little discussion of the draft >> charter, except that we've had a couple proposals to shorten >> timelines. =A0Is there really nothing else to say on this? =A0... > > i consider the comments i made, which had the following headers... > > +--- > | From: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> > | To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org > | Subject: Re: [dnsext] Reminder: draft charter was posted for discussion > | In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:06:41 -0400." > | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> > | References: <20100705180640.GF49823@shinkuro.com> > | Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:54:36 +0000 > | Message-ID: <43030.1278554076@nsa.vix.com> > +--- > > ...to have been substantive. > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From manners5@rohlhome.com Wed Jul 21 23:31:35 2010 Return-Path: <manners5@rohlhome.com> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FF43A6783 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:31:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.739 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B=5.777, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FORGED_AMAZON=3, SARE_HELO_EQ_DSL_3=1.022, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUPCa2uV4k1U for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dsl-58-6-66-15.vic.westnet.com.au (dsl-58-6-66-15.vic.westnet.com.au [58.6.66.15]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666623A67B4 for <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 58.6.66.15 by mail.rohlhome.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:30:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000d01cb2967$6a291a40$6400a8c0@manners5> From: "Amazon.com" <digital-no-reply@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Your Amazon.com Order (D56-6428940-2753959) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:30:44 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2967.6A291A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2967.6A291A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 hours= a=20 day? 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Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br> ©2010 | <a href="http://fhin.com" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | <a href="http://mfvcu.com" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://ujqkn.com" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br> </td> </tr> </table> </td> </tr> </table> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 22 07:47:48 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB823A6B64; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:47:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.429 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.429 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.130, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IfHsOyzZ+RPQ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F673A6A13; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObwwD-000AWO-1y for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:39:53 +0000 Received: from [131.111.8.133] (helo=ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>) id 1ObwwA-000AVn-6L for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:39:50 +0000 X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.54]:49515) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:fanf2) id 1Obww7-0008GS-hr (Exim 4.72) (return-path <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:39:47 +0100 Received: from fanf2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local-esmtp id 1Obww7-0004le-Iu (Exim 4.67) (return-path <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:39:47 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:39:47 +0100 From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> X-X-Sender: fanf2@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> cc: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimnoJ7NYnRs-IVAykNMffks_-4JdkhzcgiP3Kyr@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221538540.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> <AANLkTimnoJ7NYnRs-IVAykNMffks_-4JdkhzcgiP3Kyr@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LSU 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > It is possible that we would want to go one step further and introduce a > slightly more elaborate packet format so that we could use a ticket type > system to tell the server what key to use for signature. Isn't that already the job of the TSIG RR owner name? Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/ SOLE: NORTH, BACKING WEST OR SOUTHWEST, 5 OR 6. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SHOWERS, RAIN LATER IN WEST. MODERATE OR GOOD. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 22 08:51:15 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8DB3A67AF; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.201, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OzDrZqR8WpJQ; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C713A6814; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObxxE-000LgV-PD for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:45:00 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <vixie@vix.com>) id 1ObxxB-000LgD-SK for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:44:57 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7681AA101E for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:44:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> to: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:31 GMT." <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:44:57 +0000 Message-ID: <25113.1279813497@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> > From: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:31 +0000 > > ...to have been substantive. one note. since i won't be in maastricht and i seem to be in the minority of those who think the charter's treatment of "security" should be tighter, i hope that those at the meetings will realize and remember that the WG is the mailing list not the people in the room. therefore, after discussion of the charter in maastricht by those present, i'm expecting another chance to reconsider/reformulate my views of whatever draft charter comes out of that meeting, here on the mailing list. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 22 08:51:20 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695033A6814; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.836 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.836 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.656, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CBFtjhStobu2; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08F13A67AF; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObxxY-000LkX-PR for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:45:20 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hallam@gmail.com>) id 1ObxxW-000Ljp-1t for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:45:18 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so8990569iwn.11 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:44:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tq0kso31Ckj9ulphRg1o6ynSoy2ebLXapYCTxV7zPGQ=; b=Wp3dx3cjIkcPs0R/BGKp0mPfVOfm/KhDd7BlUP8hB5KaG2OzI7Wxf5BivdJq4qXBHW 7Bh6FGmAxB3TvVxgQL/SVpq3RiwMFoNXEM8V4vl6jsQyy5fVNEs6+gtqC1rCK7CmPHcj xDcw26JWw5tQJJ4IJE0NPZnyDvuHxC7c7qvZY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aMiDq8i4vt/c3VRkChLZ4DtpfdJ3Ye4ioHIRc1ws8V8x8SMenYQzLZXhZfyiUj3JVQ iqPG/LJ3FNdHnG/1U1oGFuwlGHLqgbuetNI7CabCms3K4kB127wb4wnv1RitlSh7ifvk xFUwGo2ai2/SodGDrJNsZSZAHm2xcrJjyDm4o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.36.134 with SMTP id t6mr2107774ibd.128.1279813491749; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:44:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221538540.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> <AANLkTimnoJ7NYnRs-IVAykNMffks_-4JdkhzcgiP3Kyr@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221538540.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:44:51 -0400 Message-ID: <AANLkTinxxB_xyAScCbb-6-iPn2N8JPypXtpFJdMKJy7b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> To: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Cc: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > >> It is possible that we would want to go one step further and introduce a >> slightly more elaborate packet format so that we could use a ticket type >> system to tell the server what key to use for signature. > > Isn't that already the job of the TSIG RR owner name? A TSIG RR name could be used, but if you combine that with a key exchange you then need to have a registry mapping names to keys. That is simple enough with one server involved, but gets more complex with two and next to impossible with a hundred resolving servers serving millions of users via ANYCAST - as I would hope would be the case eventually with Google and 8.8.8.8 I don't want to get too deep into this in a charter discussion, but a better approach from the scalability point of view is to make it possible to translate a name to a key without the need to rely on per-end-point data. Simple way to do this is to issue a Kerberos ticket type entity in which the label part can be decoded using a locally held symmetric key to obtain the session key for the corresponding entity. It is a feature I really regret not having put into SSL early on. Once issued a ticket might last for an hour or a year depending on what the security concerns are. I am not saying we should do this, or that we can't hack the existing system to obtain the same effect. But it is something I want in charter so it can be considered. At the moment the DNS protocol has two very different interoperability constraints but the same protocol serving both. The authoritative nameserver to resolver/cache link is really hard to change because there is an immense amount of infrastructure that has to be backwards compatible. The endpoint to resolver/cache link can and in some cases is changed quite radically. At the moment there is the assumption that all DNS is identical and that a host just uses whatever DNS server is thrown at them by DHCP. But that leaves them open to evil twin wifi attacks. And with DNSSEC potentially improving the trustworthiness of some resolvers over others the choice of DNS resolver is going to matter. So while it may seem somewhat aggressive for DNSCurve to simply hijack the whole protocol, the fact is that it can be made to work when both sides of the conversation know about it. And that may well turn out to be the correct protocol choice for many circumstances. I would like to get to a point where when I set up a host I am asked 'what is your trust root for DNS' and I can type in 'google.com' (or whatever), get back the fingerprint of some crypto material that tells me that I have done it right and then know after that is complete that the trusted DNS path for that device will always flow through the specified root of trust. If I go to Panera for coffee, my IP service comes from Panera but my trusted DNS service comes from my chosen provider [and we have to work out some way to make the WiFi intercept hack work]. > Tony. > -- > f.anthony.n.finch =A0<dot@dotat.at> =A0http://dotat.at/ > SOLE: NORTH, BACKING WEST OR SOUTHWEST, 5 OR 6. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SHOWER= S, > RAIN LATER IN WEST. MODERATE OR GOOD. > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 22 09:13:51 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6AF3A6BF7; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.415 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.415 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.920, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29OSFIridZDM; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88893A67B3; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObyKK-000PXy-EM for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:08:52 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <ogud@ogud.com>) id 1ObyKI-000PXa-6b for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:08:50 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6MG8at3026313; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:08:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ogud@ogud.com) Message-ID: <4C486D02.8090207@ogud.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:08:34 -0400 From: Olafur Gudmundsson <ogud@ogud.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100512 Thunderbird/3.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org> CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> <25113.1279813497@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <25113.1279813497@nsa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.20.30.4 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On 22/07/2010 11:44 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: >> From: Paul Vixie<vixie@isc.org> >> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:46:31 +0000 >> >> ...to have been substantive. > > one note. since i won't be in maastricht and i seem to be in the minority > of those who think the charter's treatment of "security" should be tighter, > i hope that those at the meetings will realize and remember that the WG is > the mailing list not the people in the room. therefore, after discussion > of the charter in maastricht by those present, i'm expecting another chance > to reconsider/reformulate my views of whatever draft charter comes out of > that meeting, here on the mailing list. > > > If there are changes to the draft charter from the current state then that will be posted to the mailing list for comment, before it is sent up to the IESG for ratification. Similarly if the current version is deemed acceptable by the "sense-of-the-room" that judgment needs to be confirmed on the mailing list. The IESG frequently applies changes to updated charters submitted. Olafur From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 22 09:21:50 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41723A69B1; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:21:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.083 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.083 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0IdTYt6g-7fF; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725583A6873; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1ObyTW-00010E-16 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:18:22 +0000 Received: from [131.111.8.133] (helo=ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>) id 1ObyTT-0000zn-I2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:18:19 +0000 X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.54]:38261) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:fanf2) id 1ObyTS-0000Se-hD (Exim 4.72) (return-path <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:18:18 +0100 Received: from fanf2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local-esmtp id 1ObyTS-0002N5-CE (Exim 4.67) (return-path <fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk>); Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:18:18 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:18:18 +0100 From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> X-X-Sender: fanf2@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> cc: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinxxB_xyAScCbb-6-iPn2N8JPypXtpFJdMKJy7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221707020.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> <AANLkTimnoJ7NYnRs-IVAykNMffks_-4JdkhzcgiP3Kyr@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221538540.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> <AANLkTinxxB_xyAScCbb-6-iPn2N8JPypXtpFJdMKJy7b@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LSU 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > > A TSIG RR name could be used, but if you combine that with a key > exchange you then need to have a registry mapping names to keys. > > That is simple enough with one server involved, but gets more complex > with two and next to impossible with a hundred resolving servers > serving millions of users via ANYCAST - as I would hope would be the > case eventually with Google and 8.8.8.8 > > > I don't want to get too deep into this in a charter discussion, but a > better approach from the scalability point of view is to make it > possible to translate a name to a key without the need to rely on > per-end-point data. > > Simple way to do this is to issue a Kerberos ticket type entity in > which the label part can be decoded using a locally held symmetric key > to obtain the session key for the corresponding entity. > > It is a feature I really regret not having put into SSL early on. Once > issued a ticket might last for an hour or a year depending on what the > security concerns are. Hmm, sounds like a request for a new TKEY / TSIG algorithm. > At the moment there is the assumption that all DNS is identical and > that a host just uses whatever DNS server is thrown at them by DHCP. > But that leaves them open to evil twin wifi attacks. And with DNSSEC > potentially improving the trustworthiness of some resolvers over > others the choice of DNS resolver is going to matter. It matters less if the end point can do its own validation. > I would like to get to a point where when I set up a host I am asked > 'what is your trust root for DNS' and I can type in 'google.com' (or > whatever), get back the fingerprint of some crypto material that tells > me that I have done it right and then know after that is complete that > the trusted DNS path for that device will always flow through the > specified root of trust. Why not just rely on the root trust anchor? Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch <dot@dotat.at> http://dotat.at/ SOUTHEAST FITZROY: NORTHERLY 5 OR 6. MODERATE OR ROUGH. SHOWERS. GOOD. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 22 11:57:31 2010 Return-Path: <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C9D3A6829; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:57:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.964 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.964 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.469, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Txw50AR745HN; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25A83A690D; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>) id 1Oc0p0-000PFI-C7 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:48:42 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <hallam@gmail.com>) id 1Oc0ox-000PEe-JM for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:48:39 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so9121802iwn.11 for <namedroppers@ops.ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=2644aDTvNRM4hpsuxBRS1UJHSyECZ7jZHc3rT06QAfs=; b=uqpjjI9Ze9dBkxpS2sdz7WUbMeGHy54kQPX/7jRME5pCjVm8skh8NRhx1mUoLEzRg+ 6bW+nQmDtdipJnpfIbShEGqgSpv78TGHzHwCwD8kXfyzfa4kLGM65Bz/H2zbVnR+JPeq KfY24BX8MeAICT7pkVKi5WoZrpYSLXg8oQvz8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=iAfKjbYJDrXtnHsAClh2FLIheok/ENWt69SWY66x++3esjD1BnZSOn2WUMxooC6aky aTAaiisIPrDrFezzWJYQN/B/dbmMlwi6Uqv/8B0wN90SOyF4bqJksE5r+qmlG3Qm0GeR pCiVr+4AjwqRWopbLEobqfZYKofX5lXU9xRXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.174.72 with SMTP id s8mr2426432ibz.41.1279824517413; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:48:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221707020.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> References: <20100721194127.GG535@shinkuro.com> <66901.1279752391@nsa.vix.com> <AANLkTimnoJ7NYnRs-IVAykNMffks_-4JdkhzcgiP3Kyr@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221538540.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> <AANLkTinxxB_xyAScCbb-6-iPn2N8JPypXtpFJdMKJy7b@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1007221707020.2066@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:48:37 -0400 Message-ID: <AANLkTilsJ3KGXmVyTYcSZ79GjAbBOasdGAnha7Z_U3j9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] Some reminders about IETF 78 sessions From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> To: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Cc: Paul Vixie <vixie@isc.org>, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: <namedroppers.ops.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: <http://ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> wrote: >> I would like to get to a point where when I set up a host I am asked >> 'what is your trust root for DNS' and I can type in 'google.com' (or >> whatever), get back the fingerprint of some crypto material that tells >> me that I have done it right and then know after that is complete that >> the trusted DNS path for that device will always flow through the >> specified root of trust. > > Why not just rely on the root trust anchor? The idea is that once the device knows that it can obtain every other device configuration automatically. For low performance devices this includes things like firmware updates. This is not just a root of trust, it is a root of control. Part of the exercise here is to avoid the need to do trust management on the end point devices. If I am floodle.com I want to be able to set device security policy for every device I own and I want to be able to ensure that it is maintained consistently across all devices over future changes. So the trust anchor I download is going to be a general trust anchor that describes criteria for evaluating more than just the criteria for DNSSEC. If all you want is a lightweight level of trust then you don't need to check the fingerprint. But the general principle here is that everyone has the right to decide what their own root of trust is. * ICANN does not want to meet every set of trust criteria. * To sell product in China you are likely to be required to embed the RCANN root of trust instead. I certainly don't want to have to trust that one. * I may be using split DNS and use separate keys that are not published externally for the internal domain. * I may be using a curated DNS that has intentionally limited visibility for managing critical infrastructure. * I may be using a curated rDNS to control firewall traversal. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 24 00:01:17 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0813A6888 for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:01:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <hGRhm+A7uObU> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -21.286 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.286 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hGRhm+A7uObU for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 5f44b20b.dynamic.mv.ru (5f44b20b.dynamic.mv.ru [95.68.178.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EA7493A68B1 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:01:15 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -48% schen Politiker der MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100724070115.EA7493A68B1@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 00:01:15 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> </head> <html> <body> <img src="http://tracking.msadcenter.msn.com/gid.gif?o=1" width=0 height=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center> <tr> <td class=EC_container bgcolor="#F2F2F2"> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"> <tr> <td> <br><br> <div align=center> <a href="http://kgr.basicwear.ru?dhun=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" target="_blank"><img src="http://bjs.basicwear.ru/i.gif" border=0 alt="Can't See Images? 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Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br> ©2010 | <a href="http://asll.com" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | <a href="http://hrnii.com" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://vzytc.com" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br> </td> </tr> </table> </td> </tr> </table> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 24 05:10:29 2010 Return-Path: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974A93A68FC for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <YkVJCWc+QEXt> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.084 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.084 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_24=1.552, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YkVJCWc+QEXt for <ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 212-178-8-228.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua (212-178-8-228.broadband.tenet.odessa.ua [212.178.8.228]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4962A3A6452 for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:10:27 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -73% er dieser Welt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100724121027.4962A3A6452@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:10:27 -0700 (PDT) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> </head> <html> <body> <img src="http://tracking.msadcenter.msn.com/gid.gif?o=1" width=0 height=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center> <tr> <td class=EC_container bgcolor="#F2F2F2"> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"> <tr> <td> <br><br> <div align=center> <a href="http://rit.bitstheir.ru?jrrz=dnsext-archive@ietf.org" target="_blank"><img src="http://zls.bitstheir.ru/r.gif" border=0 alt="Can't See Images? 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Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br> ©2010 | <a href="http://kary.com" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | <a href="http://uunjb.com" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://xtvca.com" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br> </td> </tr> </table> </td> </tr> </table> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> From bufordfi85@silus.freeserve.co.uk Sat Jul 24 11:32:31 2010 Return-Path: <bufordfi85@silus.freeserve.co.uk> X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6652F3A6940; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -20.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=8.948, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_BROADBND=1.118, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, REMOVE_BEFORE_LINK=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iObpOvYm-+az; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from business-89-135-41-154.business.broadband.hu (business-89-135-41-154.business.broadband.hu [89.135.41.154]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21073A684D; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 0940.amazon.com [89.135.41.154] (port=8439 helo=9386335.amazon.com) by mail-in.freeserve.com with asmtp id 420c28-0002f3-33; for <dnsext-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:32:46 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:32:46 +0100 From: "Amazon.com E-mail Subscriptions" <delivers@amazon.com> To: <dnsext-archive@ietf.org> Message-ID: <000d01cb2b5e$9cec4080$6400a8c0.JavaMail.correios@na-mm-relay.amazon.com> Subject: Amazon.com: Please verify your new e-mail address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_532655_97223553.5895577920195" Bounces-to: 51d510e43239daa70b95ebe4928079d1dc9d39c92ad202@bounces.amazon.com X-AMAZON-MAIL-RELAY-TYPE: notification X-AMAZON-RTE-VERSION: 2.0 ------=_Part_532655_97223553.5895577920195 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amazon.com Delivers: Verify Your New E-mail Address http://www.amazon.com/gp/gss Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org, You recently changed your e-mail address at Amazon.com. 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------=_Part_729480_31757009.8364924413951-- From coarsensz6@recorddealer.com Sun Jul 25 07:25:02 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1688C3A6828 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:25:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.585 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.585 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3eP3FK3lIYVT for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 80-42-239-193.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (80-42-239-193.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [80.42.239.193]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E303A6968 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 07:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 26618.amazon.com [80.42.239.193] (port=8280 helo=9006.amazon.com) by recorddealer.com with asmtp id 5527F0-000596-17; for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:24:40 +0000 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:24:40 +0000 From: "Amazon.com" To: Message-ID: <000d01cb2c05$1e47ed40$6400a8c0.JavaMail.correios@na-mm-relay.amazon.com> Subject: Your Amazon.com Order (D30-1704821-8338810) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_231398_06739106.4521270093073" Bounces-to: EFC7458DF82F8D257E6232A5C1736694766D30CF55AD1A@bounces.amazon.com X-AMAZON-MAIL-RELAY-TYPE: notification X-AMAZON-RTE-VERSION: 2.0 ------=_Part_231398_06739106.4521270093073 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amazon.com Thanks for your order, dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Did you know you can view and edit your orders online, 24 hours a day? Visit Your Account. Order Information: E-mail Address:  dnsext-archive@lists.ietf.org Order Grand Total: $ 46.99 Earn 3% rewards on your Amazon.com orders with the Amazon Visa Card. Learn More Order Summary: Details: Order #: D19-9022655-9225825 Subtotal of items: $ 48.99 ------ Total before tax: $ 88.99 Sales Tax: $ 0.00 ------ Total for this Order: $ 14.99 The following item was ordered: Click here and see items, Price: $ 83.99By: Click here Sold by: Amazon Digital Services, Inc. The charge for this order will appear on your credit card statement from the merchant 'AMZN Payment Services.' You can review your orders in Your Account. If you've explored the links on that page but still have a question, please visit our online Help Department. Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message. Thanks again for shopping with us. Amazon.comEarth's Biggest Selection Prefer not to receive HTML mail? Click here ------=_Part_231398_06739106.4521270093073 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amazon.com
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------=_Part_231398_06739106.4521270093073-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sun Jul 25 10:13:00 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5ACD3A68AF for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:13:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): Subject: ...-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA \256 Official Site -30%\n X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -50.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_MY=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gbItCfYMv4bG for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tm.net.my (unknown [58.26.181.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 582E53A6826 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: dnsext-archive@ietf.org To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site -30% MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100725171252.582E53A6826@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:12:51 -0700 (PDT)

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Dear dnsext-archive@ietf.org
From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 11:47:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B104D3A6827; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:47:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.957 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.957 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qaNQnOnwTIv0; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD703A67F8; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od68a-000Na6-BQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:41:24 +0000 Received: from [2001:12ff:0:2::4] (helo=clone.registro.br) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od68X-000NZV-0v for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:41:21 +0000 Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 14B4BE043C; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:41:19 -0300 (BRT) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:41:19 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th Message-ID: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear Colleagues, Bellow is a completed template requesting a new RRTYPE assignment under the procedures of RFC5395. This message starts a 3 weeks period for an expert-review of the DNS RRTYPE parameter allocation for URI specified in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-faltstrom-uri-05 If you have comments on the request, please post them here before Aug 15th 18:00 UTC Best Regards, Frederico Neves --begin 5395 template URI-- A. Submission Date: May 23, 2009 B. Submission Type: [X] New RRTYPE [ ] Modification to existing RRTYPE C. Contact Information for submitter: Name: Patrik Faltstrom Email Address: paf@cisco.com International telephone number: +46-8-6859131 Other contact handles: (Note: This information will be publicly posted.) D. Motivation for the new RRTYPE application? There is no easy way to get from a domain name to a URI. Some mechanisms exists via use of the NAPTR [RFC3403] resource record. That implies quite complicated rules that are simplified via the S-NAPTR [RFC3958] specification. But, the ability to directly look up a URI still exists. This specification uses a prefix based naming mechanism originated in the definition of the SRV [RFC2782] resource record, and the RDATA is a URI, encoded as one text field. See also Section 1 in draft-faltstrom-uri-05.txt. E. Description of the proposed RR type. The format of the URI resource record is as follows: Ownername TTL Class URI Priority Weight Target The URI RR has service information encoded in its ownername. In order to encode the service for a specific owner name one uses service parameters. Valid service parameters used are either Enumservice Registrations registered by IANA, or prefixes used for the SRV resource record. The wire format of the RDATA is as follows: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Priority | Weight | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ / / / Target / / / +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ F. What existing RRTYPE or RRTYPEs come closest to filling that need and why are they unsatisfactory? The RRTYPE that come closest is the NAPTR resource record. It is for example used in the DDDS and S-NAPTR algorithms. The main problem with the NAPTR is that selection of what record (or records) one is interested in is based on data stored in the RDATA portion of the NAPTR resource record. This, as explained in RFC 5507 [RFC5507], is not optimal for DNS lookups. Further, most applications using NAPTR resource records uses regular expression based rewrite rules for creation of the URI, and that has shown be complicated to implement. The second closest RRTYPE is the SRV record that given a prefixed based naming just like is suggested for the URI resource record, one get back a port number and domain name. This can also be used for creation of a URI, but, only URIs without path components. G. What mnemonic is requested for the new RRTYPE (optional)? URI H. Does the requested RRTYPE make use of any existing IANA Registry or require the creation of a new IANA sub-registry in DNS Parameters? Yes, partially. One of the mechanisms to select a service is to use the Enumservice Registry managed by IANA. Another is to use services and protocols used for SRV records. I. Does the proposal require/expect any changes in DNS servers/ resolvers that prevent the new type from being processed as an unknown RRTYPE (see [RFC3597])? No J. Comments: None --end 5395 template URI-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 12:33:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEF83A699C; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.196 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id syxvlsMDnMSa; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B783A6978; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od6qU-0003ti-Ue for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:26:46 +0000 Received: from [195.253.6.130] (helo=kmx10a.knipp.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od6qS-0003tP-Ln for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:26:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kmx10a.knipp.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6074A1C; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:26:41 +0200 (MESZ) X-Knipp-VirusScanned: Yes Received: from kmx10a.knipp.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (kmx10a.knipp.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10004) with ESMTP id rym3N66cuRTB; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:26:36 +0200 (MESZ) Received: from hp9000.do.knipp.de (hp9000.do.knipp.de [195.253.2.54]) by kmx10a.knipp.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16DFA1A; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:26:36 +0200 (MESZ) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (klaus@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hp9000.do.knipp.de (@(#)Sendmail version 8.13.3 - Revision 1.000 - 1st August,2006/8.13.3) with ESMTP id o6PJQbXP001960; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:26:38 +0200 (MESZ) Message-ID: <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:26:32 +0200 From: Klaus Malorny User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; Windows NT 5.1; rv:2.0b3pre) Gecko/20100725 Shredder/3.2a1pre MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> In-Reply-To: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-25 20:41, Frederico A C Neves wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Bellow is a completed template requesting a new RRTYPE assignment > under the procedures of RFC5395. > > This message starts a 3 weeks period for an expert-review of the DNS > RRTYPE parameter allocation for URI specified in > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-faltstrom-uri-05 > > If you have comments on the request, please post them here before Aug > 15th 18:00 UTC > > Best Regards, > Frederico Neves > Hi, dumb question: I don't consider myself an expert in that respect, but wouldn't it make more sense nowadays to use UTF-8 encoded IRIs (RFC 3987) instead of URIs? Or is there a need to keep everything ASCII-safe? Regards, Klaus From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 13:21:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCC63A67C0; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.259 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.259 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrKZ4oxM-CNk; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396973A6765; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od7e3-000B95-2W for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:17:59 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od7e0-000B8b-J3 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:17:56 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (cp820467-a.ndwrt1.lb.home.nl [84.30.38.160]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 408AB1ECB41F for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:17:55 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:17:52 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th Message-ID: <20100725201752.GB8017@shinkuro.com> References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: No hat On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 09:26:32PM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: > > dumb question: I don't consider myself an expert in that respect, but > wouldn't it make more sense nowadays to use UTF-8 encoded IRIs (RFC 3987) > instead of URIs? Or is there a need to keep everything ASCII-safe? My impression anyway is that IRIs are being updated, so in that case it'd be better to wait for the update. But of course, we could add another RRTYPE for IRIs once the update is available, I guess, and do URIs now. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 14:43:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10DC3A6912; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:43:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.329 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.329 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.929, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X920S3fqD1N4; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20AC3A6872; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od8ux-000Ltb-Ah for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:39:31 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od8uu-000Lt0-W2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:39:29 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (cp820467-a.ndwrt1.lb.home.nl [84.30.38.160]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EE1581ECB421 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:39:26 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:39:23 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Report from chairs Message-ID: <20100725213920.GF8017@shinkuro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Dear colleagues, This is the DNSEXT Working Group status report from the Chairs. As we did for previous meetings, we are undertaking this report on the mailing list rather than at the meeting. Items not addressed in this report should be part of the DNSEXT meeting at IETF 78. Please be aware that, if there are issues you want to have addressed at the meeting and you feel they're not being addressed in this mail, you should not hesitate to raise them. Reminder: contributions to the WG are covered by the "Note Well" statement, which can be found at http://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html. 1. DRAFTS PUBLISHED draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-gost, RFC 5933 draft-ietf-dnsext-axfr-clarify, RFC 5936 2. DRAFTS IN OR PAST WG LAST CALL a. RFC-Editor's queue draft-ietf-dnsext-dns-tcp-requirements draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-alg-allocation b. IESG processing draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc3597-bis - waiting on AD action. c. WG LC draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-registry-fixes - This needed some further changes, it turned out, after the writeup was to be done. They're in progress. draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname - WGLC summary needed, and some document changes. The shepherd dropped the ball on this. 3. ACTIVE DRAFTS draft-ietf-dnsext-dnssec-bis-updates - See discussion in meeting. draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0 - Needs new editor. To be discussed in the meeting. 4. EXPIRED DRAFTS - draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-md5-deprecated Is anyone still interested in this draft? We have no movement on it. 5. EXPERT REVIEW. a. OPEN EXPERT REVIEW REQUESTS RR code request for RR TYPE URI. Assigned to Frederico Neves. 6. OPEN WG ADOPTION REQUESTS To be handled in the meeting (charter discussion). 7. OTHER WG ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS 7.1 WG mailing list announced move This will happen after the WG recharters, assuming it does. -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 14:59:25 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0194E3A6914; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.233 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.233 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bsMbndQSlAkk; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A543A67A7; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od9Aq-000NnS-Pi for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:55:56 +0000 Received: from [64.102.122.148] (helo=rtp-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Od9An-000Nlp-Sz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:55:54 +0000 Authentication-Results: rtp-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-Files: PGP.sig : 186 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAFZPTExAZnwN/2dsb2JhbACfYHGlV5lahTYEiGQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,259,1278288000"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="138930623" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2010 21:55:52 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-89-218.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-89-218.cisco.com [10.55.89.218]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6PLtaCZ028368; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:55:51 GMT Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-425--1008754536" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <20100725201752.GB8017@shinkuro.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:33:59 +0200 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <780A07EC-89B9-45EA-9EAC-776E6D0B6FD4@cisco.com> References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> <20100725201752.GB8017@shinkuro.com> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.2.3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-425--1008754536 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 25 jul 2010, at 22.17, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 09:26:32PM +0200, Klaus Malorny wrote: >>=20 >> dumb question: I don't consider myself an expert in that respect, but=20= >> wouldn't it make more sense nowadays to use UTF-8 encoded IRIs (RFC = 3987)=20 >> instead of URIs? Or is there a need to keep everything ASCII-safe? >=20 > My impression anyway is that IRIs are being updated, so in that case > it'd be better to wait for the update. But of course, we could add > another RRTYPE for IRIs once the update is available, I guess, and do > URIs now. This is indeed a very good question. The URI could be said to be in = UTF-8 already now because *my*guess* is that that actually make most = sense. But I take on the task to check with the IRI people really fast, and I = will come back with a response (for example how to handle cases where = one "would like to" (note the quotes) url-encode some characters, in one = of the various ways possible). Patrik --Apple-Mail-425--1008754536 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFMTK3HvHlR2X0luNwRAnGEAKC9XgriqcVtjge+kmJQJQ9uH+vxEgCgj7lu I685gzmJruyaLudwFvRjzqI= =Kqq8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-425--1008754536-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 16:29:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E0E53A688F; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:29:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.383 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.383 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.187, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ADg48wFbJOhC; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478E33A6912; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdAYS-000828-5j for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:24:24 +0000 Received: from [131.112.32.132] (helo=necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdAYP-00081j-DK for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:24:21 +0000 Received: (qmail 4092 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2010 23:30:24 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188004.bbtec.net (HELO ?192.168.1.21?) (219.1.188.4) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 25 Jul 2010 23:30:24 -0000 Message-ID: <4C4CC6BB.7040003@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:20:27 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Klaus Malorny CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> In-Reply-To: <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Klaus Malorny wrote: > dumb question: I don't consider myself an expert in that respect, but > wouldn't it make more sense nowadays to use UTF-8 encoded IRIs (RFC > 3987) instead of URIs? Or is there a need to keep everything ASCII-safe? UTF-8 is causing a lot of problems, some of which was predicted but some are new, with CJK unification and will never be stable. Patrik; > But I take on the task to check with the IRI people really fast, They are the wrong people to ask, because only the positive answers are expected. Masataka Ohta From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 16:30:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC493A693B; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8mu19B6HLQsr; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9CF3A688F; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdAZ0-00087c-0R for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:24:58 +0000 Received: from [216.239.44.51] (helo=smtp-out.google.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdAYs-00085o-UZ for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:24:52 +0000 Received: from kpbe20.cbf.corp.google.com (kpbe20.cbf.corp.google.com [172.25.105.84]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id o6PNOnex004086 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:49 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1280100290; bh=F8V/mQiy8fw9bopbKcYX3ClMWuY=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type; b=L4CFUZNh8hk5Ah2b11rN3ulPCDDXPga32bH7T6UHJUHIcVW47MR9/0CF5zi/pKbMu 7/pwBwPA3/qpqMhq5cgXw== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=beta; d=google.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to: cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; b=kv2Djf6RXCNS8pPcq0t5mr7fzcyD9xvnBTJG2begmVEPK51mKFdOzD5pz9fb8Rj2v aBJhjtw9nBsSVPSZxv5MQ== Received: from bwz15 (bwz15.prod.google.com [10.188.26.15]) by kpbe20.cbf.corp.google.com with ESMTP id o6PNOlWR027368 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:48 -0700 Received: by bwz15 with SMTP id 15so2550683bwz.22 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.84.17 with SMTP id h17mr4860769bkl.101.1280100286632; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.46.77 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C054F87.5010608@ogud.com> References: <4C054F87.5010608@ogud.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:24:46 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Chairs statement on "client-option" debate From: Wilmer van der Gaast To: Olafur Gudmundsson Cc: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-System-Of-Record: true Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: As authors of edns-client-subnet, we never sent a reply addressing The Chairs' comments. The main issues seem to be related to 1 - clarifying the problem statement, 2 - explaining why DNS is the best solution space, and 3 - have a discussion about the costs, making sure that the right people are paying for them. We'll provide a clarified problem statement in edns-client-subnet-02 (really called -00 thanks to the counter reset). We believe 2 and 3 are discussions out of the scope of the draft itself, so we'll explain our thoughts on those in this e-mail. In short, we understand that edns-client-subnet is not a perfect solution. We believe, however, that a perfect solution would require making changes to how the user agent works. We can't do that, we only get to change the nameservers and recursive resolvers. Changing all user agents will take years (note how there are still many people using MSIE6 or even Netscape). Having all interested parties (and only them) roll out edns-client-subnet can be done in less than a year. Currently users of open resolvers (which are used for various reasons including performance, filtering of undesired (family-unfriendly, etc.) content, and avoiding their ISP's ad-serving nameservers) have problems with accessing some CDN content (going from severe latency penalties to content simply being unreachable), we need to fix that. This said... there were several alternative solutions proposed in various threads that also don't need work on the client. Most of these are known with the CDN industry, some are actually used. However, DNS tricks are still the most popular. Here's some of the reasons why we believe this is the case: * If something breaks, one of the easiest and more reliable ways to send users somewhere else is to... change DNS records, and have short TTLs. No matter how much redundancy you build in your infrastructure, eventually you'll have to do maintenances on it, or it'll break. DNS is a simple, painless, and easy way to control where your users end up. If you have a highly distributed infrastructure, this can happen often, and from here.. to returning results that are geolocated, the step is small. Two ways were proposed to do this on the HTTP level instead: * Framesets. These were deprecated several years ago for good reasons outside the scope of this proposal, so no viable solution to this problem. * The other proposed solution was to use HTTP 30x redirects. There are a few problems with this: - The main weakness is the latency penalty. A user has to resolve www.foo.com first, connect to that server, send a query, get a 30x response. Then disconnect, resolve the new hostname, etc etc. A well-written app can limit this to just the first query, but this requires putting this logic into the web application, which can be considered a layer violation. The latency cost of establishing a TCP connection with servers just for a redirect is sensibly more costly than a UDP query (which is also only done on the first request, and often answered from cache), and can definitively affect the overall latency and user experience. - This will either mean forwarding user agents to URLs with IP addresses in them, or to URLs like http://lhr00.mail.foo.com/. This by itself gives several problems: * These URLs look ugly, are not easy to remember, not practical to bookmark/pass from person to person (many CDN nodes are accessible only to customers of ISPs hosting the node), needlessly expose internals to the user (yesterday my request went to London, and today it goes to Amsterdam??). * With bookmarks in mind, content providers will be required to keep old datacenters/servers in DNS even though they're decommissioned. Also, taking down a datacenter temporarily gets more complicated. * This is likely to break caching. The full URL is (part of) the cache key of HTTP content. If the hostname changes, the client will have to reload the full file. Webapps these days are often powered by hundreds of kilobytes of JavaScript, being able to cache those is essential. * This also causes problems with SSL certificates. Wildcards and other ways are available to work around this problem, but both are still not supported by all user agents. * And in a related note, in a world where phishing is a real threat to many, it must be easy for users to recognise reliable URLs. Expecting that someone unfamiliar with how URLs and DNS work that "https://lhr00.mail.foo.com/" is good while "https://lhr000.com/mail.foo.com/" is bad, is unrealistic. * Having said that, this technique is already used for things like video streaming, where the URL is not ever going to be visible to the user and throughput is more important than latency. * Most of all, both solutions only solve the problem for HTTP. Although HTTP is definitely our main focus here, other protocols can benefit from this: - SIP came up as an example, although it's not a great one, as the resulting RTP stream is much more latency-sensitive than SIP itself, so the right RTP server can be selected by the SIP proxy already. - VPNs - Various e-mail protocols Using BGP/anycast instead doesn't have any of these issues. However, it has its own imperfections. Although anycast is fairly good at directing packets to the nearest endpoint, the nearest endpoint is not always the right endpoint. CDNs are about more than just latency. They're also about capacity. When a node is full, the excess traffic should go elsewhere. Pulling the IP announcement wouldn't get redirect the excess but all traffic. There may be ways to refine this, but they're fragile and hard to control. Another problem with using anycast is the fact that redirecting traffic (i.e. when taking down a destination for maintenance) moves new *and* existing TCP connections, resetting all the existing connections, often with ugly user-visible consequences. These redirections can't be avoided since they're not just within the power of the content provider. Using DNS has its own imperfections, but the CDNs of today have mostly dealt with them already. Think of problems like not knowing how many application queries will be generated by once returning a certain IP address in a DNS response. The last problem unsolved so far is the wrong assumption that users are always close to their resolvers. edns-client-subnet is the key to making them work completely. It comes with its own problems and challenges, but they affecte only the CDNs and the operators of recursive resolvers who opt in to using the option, as explained below. 3) COST OF IMPLEMENTATION In our mind, edns-client-subnet would be turned on and used only by those third party resolvers and authoritative name servers that need a solution for problem (2). We don't see this option being enabled by anyone else, or worse, by default. In any case, if we had to break down the cost of this option, we'd have: a - implementation cost, authoritative nameserver, and recursive resolver. and, on servers that enable the option: b - additional load caused by more queries being sent c - additional resources to handle larger caches, as replies would now be tied to networks d - configuration and management overhead So, on the CDN/authoritative resolver side: authoritative servers that don't use DNS tricks, can keep living happily without implementing this option. Authoritative servers used by CDNs are likely to care about the latency of their users, and are likely to implement support for this option, paying their share on the cost. (They can finally provide good latency to users of third party resolvers.) On the recursive resolver side: if you're running a recursive resolver for a small network or for a set of users that are close to the resolver, you can keep living happily without enabling this option. If you are running recursive resolvers for a large ISP or distributed network, you're probably *already* paying the price: you probably have lot of recursive resolvers, close to your users, to avoid paying the price of the extra latency. In this case, you can keep doing your business as usual, or ... you can *decide* if you *want* to, to enable edns-client-subnet. Knowing explicitly which servers are returning responses that are tied to a particular IP address also helps with debugging, implementing smarter algorithms for shared caches, and planning for capacity (how many servers we need, where, ...). So, if you're willing to pay the cost, it's probably because you get a benefit. Once you have a software that supports edns-client-subnet, what you'll have to do is configure how many bits of the network of the user to forward, and for which networks your server will forward edns-client-subnet. If you are running a third party resolver, well: you can keep doing business as usual, so, ... live with the fact that some of your users will have bad latency when connecting to some CDNs. Or enable edns-client-subnet, with more or less the same advantages/disadvantages as in the previous case. Again, this should not be enabled by default, we don't see this being generally useful. As for other authoritative nameservers, that don't need or want support for edns-client-subnet, they might see additional EDNS0 options from time to time, but as long as they ignore them, they're fine. Broken firewalls and filters will affect edns-client-subnet as any other EDNS0 option, so nothing special to say here. We hope this answers the questions on the table. We'll keep working on -02 and hope to have it ready soon after IETF78. Regards, Wilmer v/d Gaast, Carlo Contavalli, Sean Leach, Darryl Rodden. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 17:29:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FF93A686D; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:29:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.156, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J-MXhXYC9GwP; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA4C3A63EC; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdBVB-000FJp-8x for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:25:05 +0000 Received: from [131.112.32.132] (helo=necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdBV6-000FIh-NG for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:25:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 8443 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2010 00:31:21 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188004.bbtec.net (HELO ?192.168.1.21?) (219.1.188.4) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jul 2010 00:31:21 -0000 Message-ID: <4C4CD553.7020604@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:22:43 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilmer van der Gaast CC: Olafur Gudmundsson , namedroppers Subject: Re: [dnsext] Chairs statement on "client-option" debate References: <4C054F87.5010608@ogud.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Wilmer van der Gaast wrote: > - The main weakness is the latency penalty. A user has to resolve > www.foo.com first, connect to that server, send a query, get a 30x > response. Then disconnect, resolve the new hostname, etc etc. A > well-written app can limit this to just the first query, but this > requires putting this logic into the web application, which can be > considered a layer violation. Address selection based on latency is an issue at or above the transport layer that trying to address it at the IP layer is the layer violation. At the connectionless IP layer, there is no notion of round trip nor round trip latency. > - This will either mean forwarding user agents to URLs with IP > addresses in them, or to URLs like http://lhr00.mail.foo.com/. This by > itself gives several problems: > * These URLs look ugly, are not easy to remember, not practical to > bookmark/pass from person to person (many CDN nodes are accessible > only to customers of ISPs hosting the node), needlessly expose > internals to the user (yesterday my request went to London, and today > it goes to Amsterdam??). I'm afraid I have already shown, with real world examples, that the real world content providers such as yahoo and google actively use the URLs you called "ugly". Masataka Ohta From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 17:47:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB923A6852; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:47:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.992 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.992 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.497, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ye4REiNPjCXW; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDED83A6846; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdBnO-000HqW-Nk for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:43:54 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdBnL-000Hp8-8b for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:43:51 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so3351831iwn.11 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=iKH/4/4Mjg3UG68HV7KO1Wh1EDR2FoO/LFH9CgbZ9x0=; b=pNwua6Cm8iNoMs3Ta6u1LkFdufvfIXyybFw8+le/WjrHFDBklI4ymZLoFYUsYrzWol 93OXqLdFAgX4MEGJZh5k429BqtZSHZkS8LSV/e6cpnznvRVgr1OElGGLmKyjPgLo4Ezd nKc1FXxqrjpNmBHnFO1DReHgkxVuBbw4v/Mxg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=vjiT+aURY/nROetzn0rUprJv9TGYl08z8hULDSsgiI1gSOHEyV5KRDVR0R5frcVHro rhuOWzp9zE0Ho2d4V3GSQ8ez9Ou3PVmrjUwayWJ3XxLTpt79+23qY8jeuwAsnY8XXDau 74GZIhSozrqCRMf3VCOero1JSmZfxqrI1+iKA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.14.200 with SMTP id h8mr6842020iba.188.1280105030007; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:43:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C4CC6BB.7040003@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> <4C4CC6BB.7040003@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:43:49 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Masataka Ohta Cc: Klaus Malorny , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Use the same RR for both. As far as the infrastructure is concerned there is absolutely no difference. DNS does not need to know the semantics of the bits being shipped. IRIs are going to have to fit into slots where URLs are used. In most cases the application will not know which is being used. The justification for IRIs is that they are friendlier for human use. This is another technology meant to make things easier for human use. There is really no reason that the target should be another human friendly format. But there is no particular harm either. Provided that the target is something that the app can just use as a blind chunk of bits. 2010/7/25 Masataka Ohta : > Klaus Malorny wrote: > >> dumb question: I don't consider myself an expert in that respect, but >> wouldn't it make more sense nowadays to use UTF-8 encoded IRIs (RFC >> 3987) instead of URIs? Or is there a need to keep everything ASCII-safe? > > UTF-8 is causing a lot of problems, some of which was predicted > but some are new, with CJK unification and will never be stable. > > Patrik; > >> But I take on the task to check with the IRI people really fast, > > They are the wrong people to ask, because only the positive > answers are expected. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Masataka Ohta > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 18:02:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587363A67AC; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:02:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.33 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.33 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.134, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mm1SbNUUUX3R; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAE93A67EC; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdC1U-000Jog-He for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:58:28 +0000 Received: from [131.112.32.132] (helo=necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdC1R-000JoE-Bz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:58:25 +0000 Received: (qmail 10535 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2010 01:04:47 -0000 Received: from softbank219001188004.bbtec.net (HELO ?192.168.1.21?) (219.1.188.4) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 26 Jul 2010 01:04:47 -0000 Message-ID: <4C4CDD26.9020800@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:56:06 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phillip Hallam-Baker CC: Klaus Malorny , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <4C4C8FE8.8090305@knipp.de> <4C4CC6BB.7040003@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > As far as the infrastructure is concerned there is absolutely no > difference. DNS does not need to know the semantics of the bits being > shipped. RFC3987 says: a. A protocol or format element should be explicitly designated to be able to carry IRIs. > The justification for IRIs is that they are friendlier for human use. IRIs are unusably human unfriendly. Masataka Ohta From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 21:29:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C063A687F; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:29:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.427 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.427 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id exxc2-TGCXJQ; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D623A67B1; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdFD3-000FTL-3O for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 04:22:37 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdFCz-000FSo-Bp for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 04:22:33 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77910A1019 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 04:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers Subject: Re: [dnsext] Chairs statement on "client-option" debate In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:24:46 +0200." References: <4C054F87.5010608@ogud.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 04:22:31 +0000 Message-ID: <23061.1280118151@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:24:46 +0200 > From: Wilmer van der Gaast > ... > Currently users of open resolvers (which are used for various reasons > including performance, filtering of undesired (family-unfriendly, > etc.) content, and avoiding their ISP's ad-serving nameservers) have > problems with accessing some CDN content (going from severe latency > penalties to content simply being unreachable), we need to fix that. no, we don't need to fix that. it's not our bug. open resolvers can either work well within the internet as it exists, or they can improve themselves, or they can go home. shifting the burden of this bad idea (open resolvers) onto the architecture itself, for the unilateral benefit of the advertisers, CDN's, and recursive dns share- holders, would be not just bad engineering, but irresponsible stewardship. next thing you know we'll be adding nxdomain support to application layer protocols because, well, it just wasn't good for the open resolver businessmen. and we'll advise against any subsequent application or protocol design that wouldn't work well for high-RTT recursive servers (stub dnssec validation comes to mind.) this way lies madness. just say no. (i'll say more about how to do content filtering in cooperating recursive dns servers in my remarks at blackhat and defcon, next week in las vegas. suffice to say, it doesn't require a new open recursive industry, at all.) > Regards, > > Wilmer v/d Gaast, Carlo Contavalli, > Sean Leach, Darryl Rodden. nothing personal, guys. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sun Jul 25 22:39:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205F73A6899; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:39:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hAhsNWQuKeMO; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3713A688C; Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdGLZ-000Mtr-5b for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:35:29 +0000 Received: from [87.106.162.201] (helo=ka.mail.enyo.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdGLW-000MtS-4R for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:35:26 +0000 Received: from [172.17.135.4] (helo=deneb.enyo.de) by ka.mail.enyo.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1OdGLT-0002QR-6v for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:35:23 +0200 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OdGLS-000571-Sl for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:35:22 +0200 From: Florian Weimer To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:35:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> (Frederico A. C. Neves's message of "Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:41:19 -0300") Message-ID: <87y6cy955x.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: * Frederico A. C. Neves: > The wire format of the RDATA is as follows: > > > 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Priority | Weight | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > / / > / Target / > / / > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Would it make sense to include an "insert original domain here" placeholder in the target part? This would help with aliasing. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 00:07:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6473A69F4; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:07:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.186 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.991, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RtUf0czDy4mm; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6993A69D5; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdHgx-0007it-UL for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:01:39 +0000 Received: from [64.102.122.149] (helo=rtp-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdHgt-0007i7-IP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:01:35 +0000 Authentication-Results: rtp-iport-2.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-Files: PGP.sig : 186 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAMfPTExAZnwN/2dsb2JhbACfYHGlBJl7hTYEiGQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,260,1278288000"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="139104754" Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2010 07:01:34 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-91-144.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-91-144.cisco.com [10.55.91.144]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6Q71X2n006154; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:01:34 GMT Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-435--974700954" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: <87y6cy955x.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:01:33 +0200 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <87y6cy955x.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> To: Florian Weimer X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.2.3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-435--974700954 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 26 jul 2010, at 07.35, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Frederico A. C. Neves: >=20 >> The wire format of the RDATA is as follows: >>=20 >>=20 >> 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Priority | Weight | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> / / >> / Target / >> / / >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > Would it make sense to include an "insert original domain here" > placeholder in the target part? This would help with aliasing. You talk about a subset of the NAPTR regexp now are you not... http://cloud-4711.example.com/${domain}/foo/bar The problem with any such thing is that you immediately end up in a = discussion on how to encode the '$' that should be in the URI. Patrik --Apple-Mail-435--974700954 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFMTTLNvHlR2X0luNwRAk7qAJ0VSsmA+DhhLC/71XZxfWAkqOzuOwCg5r1a E52Sg8gVxOrhgjoMtmvC84Y= =q0aZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-435--974700954-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 00:13:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871213A69D5; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:13:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hf5kmSU8Ecwr; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2869B3A69DF; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdHpp-0008zd-PK for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:10:49 +0000 Received: from [2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e] (helo=givry.fdupont.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdHpn-0008z7-1E for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:10:47 +0000 Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6Q7AjoB025253; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:10:45 GMT (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 25 Jul 2010 17:39:23 EDT. <20100725213920.GF8017@shinkuro.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:10:45 +0200 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: In your previous mail you wrote: 4. EXPIRED DRAFTS - draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-md5-deprecated Is anyone still interested in this draft? We have no movement on it. => there is a clear lack of support for this draft. I propose to give the question to the security area so they should say if it is fine to keep MD5 mandatory in an IETF protocol. Two comments: - MD5 is used in a way (HMAC) it is not proved to be weak - the issue is MD5 it is forbidden for most (i.e., all I know of :-) certified cryptos so it is not possible to run a both certified (for the crypto) and conformant (to standards) TSIG tool. Now it seems to be only a formal concern... Thanks Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 00:48:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898B23A6A77; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:48:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OfUk9oz2XNvP; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BBD3A6A69; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdILJ-000E78-FQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:43:21 +0000 Received: from [65.122.17.41] (helo=fledge.watson.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdILG-000E6B-Vj for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:43:19 +0000 Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6Q7hGJK070645; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id o6Q7hFSj070641; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:43:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Samuel Weiler To: Andrew Sullivan cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Design team report on dnssec-bis-updates and CD bit In-Reply-To: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> Message-ID: References: <20100709142108.GA68527@shinkuro.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Colleagues, Many thanks for putting this report together. I appreciate the clarity. Your descriptions of model 1 and 2 are complete, as best as I can tell. I prefer "never set" (model 2). It allows upstream caches to help out: if the local cache doesn't have a full set of trust anchors, maybe the upstream can validate answers in larger part of the namespace. Similarly, if there are holes in the secure tree, perhaps the upstream has trust anchors for zones further down the tree. I conur with Andrew's statement (on July 10th) about user experience. One model is best. I'm happy for it to be a SHOULD; I can easily see the case where a validator would want to use model 1, perhaps as a configuration option. -- Sam From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 05:31:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEF73A6BF8; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:31:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.973 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.973 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.478, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2gLROClSe4a4; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8083A6BEC; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdMjK-0006is-8M for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:24:26 +0000 Received: from [209.85.160.180] (helo=mail-gy0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdMjH-0006iI-54 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:24:23 +0000 Received: by gye5 with SMTP id 5so1443616gye.11 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:24:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ver878IAf6fJKMp/YbImZyd7lYda5GhsH9B1GFFO8Nk=; b=rIfKxf8Npq9kOsfGFO49RJPZuuQUbAvqou60Bf2KKGq0w5LuzNu2Axd2EjWkUrCd2v yqSc42bUbrcAfBwcfsSGLw1+e4DLfrJWgjkkehMWJ9yH2Rm5hDisN79Xfjtc5o8oMlQI iMFv4of0J0lo9UZicR0wobJipkfS9MT0vtbQ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LhIsstLtx6aQ6RtuHLoQqV6yD6D+CvVHNaiYThfY9O3cCEyOw4Z63fuMH0MBNsk0ka f3VEREtU8fnUWPxRpIqo+32vZp4dh9PKIjN9edXK4B4PItwwcFfKNFzxoDKBFaFy6VMo QZgeIyuM95eL63/8TrM3x6OLseLofXpbdY078= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.215.17 with SMTP id n17mr8543420ybg.276.1280147062303; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:24:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <23061.1280118151@nsa.vix.com> References: <4C054F87.5010608@ogud.com> <23061.1280118151@nsa.vix.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:24:22 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Chairs statement on "client-option" debate From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Paul Vixie Cc: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I am trying very hard to work out which is the 'bad idea' and which is the 'architecture' here. >From a security point of view, the idea that I delegate DNS resolution to any random party that my laptop may be connecting to is stupid and wrong. I do not and should not trust the local DNS at panera, IETF or any other random location I happen to be at. Secondly, from a security point of view it seems very sensible to apply a 'default deny' approach and only enable resolution for the limited subset of DNS domains that a party I trust deems to be 'safe'. I have no interest in being able to resolve names registered by Internet criminals attempting to defraud me. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: >> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:24:46 +0200 >> From: Wilmer van der Gaast >> ... >> Currently users of open resolvers (which are used for various reasons >> including performance, filtering of undesired (family-unfriendly, >> etc.) content, and avoiding their ISP's ad-serving nameservers) have >> problems with accessing some CDN content (going from severe latency >> penalties to content simply being unreachable), we need to fix that. > > no, we don't need to fix that. =A0it's not our bug. > > open resolvers can either work well within the internet as it exists, or > they can improve themselves, or they can go home. =A0shifting the burden = of > this bad idea (open resolvers) onto the architecture itself, for the > unilateral benefit of the advertisers, CDN's, and recursive dns share- > holders, would be not just bad engineering, but irresponsible stewardship= . > > next thing you know we'll be adding nxdomain support to application layer > protocols because, well, it just wasn't good for the open resolver > businessmen. =A0and we'll advise against any subsequent application or > protocol design that wouldn't work well for high-RTT recursive servers > (stub dnssec validation comes to mind.) > > this way lies madness. =A0just say no. > > (i'll say more about how to do content filtering in cooperating recursive > dns servers in my remarks at blackhat and defcon, next week in las vegas. > suffice to say, it doesn't require a new open recursive industry, at all.= ) > >> Regards, >> >> Wilmer v/d Gaast, Carlo Contavalli, >> Sean Leach, Darryl Rodden. > > nothing personal, guys. > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 06:28:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E57C33A68FA; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:28:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.929, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ApaKlCv68NzD; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E4B3A6C07; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdNes-000EC0-Sz for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:23:54 +0000 Received: from [129.6.16.227] (helo=smtp.nist.gov) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdNeq-000EBd-2x for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:23:52 +0000 Received: from WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov [129.6.18.96]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o6QDNQEQ007935; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:23:26 -0400 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov ([129.6.18.96]) with mapi; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:23:25 -0400 From: "Rose, Scott W." To: Rickard Bellgrim CC: IETF DNSEXT WG Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:23:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-registry-fixes terms question Thread-Topic: [dnsext] draft-registry-fixes terms question Thread-Index: AcssxbHe64pnyU6VQke4WTgHlggG1Q== Message-ID: References: <37183901-7770-4716-806D-93A0A8B296DE@nist.gov> <694EF2D4-F282-40EE-992C-BFE12F333B60@iis.se> In-Reply-To: <694EF2D4-F282-40EE-992C-BFE12F333B60@iis.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: scott.rose@nist.gov Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Simple answer: It's a mistake. Longer, the current working version (soon to be submitted): RSASHA-NSEC3-SHA1 & DSA-NSEC3-SHA1 marked as RECOMMENDED. Using the RFC2119 keywords. There is no discussion about status other than the table in the new version. MANDATORY would be ok with me too, but since NSEC3 support isn't "mandatory", then the algorithm shouldn't be mandatory either. Scott On Jul 26, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Rickard Bellgrim wrote: > > On 18 maj 2010, at 14.32, Rose, Scott W. wrote: > >> DISCRETIONARY > > And the RSASHA1-NSEC3-SHA1 and DSA-NSEC3-SHA1 is marked as DISCRETIONARY in section 2.1, but as MANDATORY and OPTOINAL [sic] in section 2.2. What should it be? > > // Rickard =================================== Scott Rose NIST scottr@nist.gov +1 301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1 571-249-3671 http://www.dnsops.gov/ =================================== From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 07:50:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085F43A68DA; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:50:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.025 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.025 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.389, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QGv3NR3ZDc1w; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCEE83A6922; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdOvj-000PYE-4E for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:45:23 +0000 Received: from [209.85.210.52] (helo=mail-pz0-f52.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdOvd-000PWs-PP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:45:18 +0000 Received: by pzk27 with SMTP id 27so2258793pzk.11 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:45:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=dbdINSeTjhcKDvH8lp+USJC0xmgBsloSbmhkc+PH08U=; b=dSNoLPHhgbQFuHO3wpCz6zbLHzjgo/5JeMtfDk0IcOPnxYlPQaqIDRd653zhWbVEs1 EZhmmHU6Iw7fUjEDC/bnM3WPGAQsB4yGMUXcCep/ebzZ2X/GWQKYwrPbLwLqRfJX+CBI XpCmwNCW8qMMaNoCtlFPlx0O6hvS4P2f0t8jw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=ZsBjOWS9cHfgUXJ2+DTIEhcha+xEwyoLobu351pzVQ2Vaf4CmBeNwxVrbhXaPm5qUt eQEpDePD0AFY4gEB+Jy/uHEMfRYmkoWvDy8yukNclF3xhbO0UFYvms/bbCn9DvnFwdBN j9g+Wg/tDRc5Py7cEC9GYbdQQ3yrAW3ExK4YE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.114.27.4 with SMTP id a4mr11471950waa.44.1280155513308; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:45:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [dnsext] Aliasing Discussion From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: It seems to me that we have a big issue here with distinguishing 'requirements' and 'problems'. Specifically the term problem is being used to refer to both requirements and constraints. And that makes for confusion. The issue is being discussed in terms of problems created by the introduction of IDNs. And this is unsatisfactory as it is not clear whether the problems are technical issues or requirements that are not being met or whatever. And this in turn makes it difficult to know what specific objective the proposals are intended to meet. At its simplest the 'cause' here is that it is very commonly the case that domain name owners have multiple domains and wish to provision identical trees for the two domains. For example AliceCorp.com merges with BobCorp.com to form AliceAndBob.com. AliceCorp.com is also registered as AliceCorp.cn and in various international variations. The consequences of this issue are: 1) Administrative difficulties AliceCorp has multiple trees to test and verify. One could imagine instances where the number of domains is very large (10, 20 or more) and possibly even end up with nested zones leading to a combinatorial issue. 2) SSL issues A certificate bound to one site address may not function for all, an issue compounded with the oversight in the SSL protocol that means the server does not know which domain the client is attempting to reach until after the negotiation is complete and consequently IP addresses are used for domain name negotiation. 3) Cache issues If the number of names is very large there may be caches containing very large numbers of responses that are essentially the same. 4) DNSSEC issues Signing each domain independently will increase the cost of running DNSSEC, number of signatures to generate etc. Now we can imagine requirements coming out of these consequences designed to mitigate them, but will they be of utility? We need to consider the constraints: 1) Names must resolve reliably to be of use An aliasing scheme is not going to help matters if it means that the resolvability of names depends on where you are. It will cause things to break. For example Francoise writes a web page including URLs that point to the French version of ecran.fr with the accents in. It works perfectly for her as the local DNS resolver supports the alias scheme. But none of her readers can read her pages as their resolvers do not support it. 2) Legacy infrastructure may persist for a long time An administrative convenience that does not sork with legacy infrastructure is going to be a nightmare, not a convenience. I could support an alias scheme that was narrowly tailored to address the efficiency issues that are raised by having multiple trees. But it is clear to me that many of the 'problems' being raised are in fact constraints that frustrate the requirements. There are two basic approaches that can be taken 1) Aliasing aware provisioning 2) Expansion of aliases to support non-compliant services 3) Alias records in the DNS Note that any implementation of (2) will provide a means of achieving (1). Since legacy infrastructure does not support alias records, any solution that only supports (3) is not going to meet the constraints. I conclude that there are two viable options 1 on its own or 2+3 which provides the effect of 1. So looking at the set of issues I conclude that if the requirement is to mitigate the administrative difficulties we cannot escape the provisioning/expansion approach. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 08:07:24 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87153A6953; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:07:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.982, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PewvTtCTkP57; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7733A6952; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdPD7-00021g-JZ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:03:21 +0000 Received: from [74.125.83.180] (helo=mail-pv0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdPD4-00020y-2Q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:03:18 +0000 Received: by pvg12 with SMTP id 12so164934pvg.11 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=u8ZtardvOe+bcte7C3nwzdqq8BK+F3rnWN0lQn090cM=; b=Lhg3MmFn4MFvkeH2EqDMiKkornTqp2wgWjq73h0vsxEjwmPk4EhY2KFjqJjplF61sn WmNWgGyqNs1IYphXLMWzfq/VGIg48N8ucszMCNWXiqkWk/1T4RJFfG04q+k3QApXaNbH 2sE2UKI8Sa9TZHQmmcDUgunB6EBXBngbsjqzc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=AUdX5xI3pUfLROTem0qlEUCLnWo9KKAHv7WtJDJp5jHkN2DquzYWvSMg1Li80v5rYC zZ8BB08Goy4Ot3nbL5WBg0m8EMTQ3mMDXcsPyqeEC+98tMRGDN+CaGCa6tRF6tKj8wvP LaI4LIH0XjGqYzvl8iUIsZ5vPrbaSfMru8vfE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.50.19 with SMTP id x19mr3411879wfx.128.1280156597139; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:03:17 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [dnsext] Re: Aliasing Discussion From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Another way to look at this issue is that an alias zone tree is simply a variation of a wildcard and so we should look for technical implementations that are equivalent. This would lead to designs in which the alias records are mainly administrative aids expanded out by the authoritative name servers and the only times they will appear on the wire are during zone transfers and in the context of DNSSEC. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker w= rote: > It seems to me that we have a big issue here with distinguishing > 'requirements' and 'problems'. Specifically the term problem is being > used to refer to both requirements and constraints. And that makes for > confusion. > > The issue is being discussed in terms of problems created by the > introduction of IDNs. And this is unsatisfactory as it is not clear > whether the problems are technical issues or requirements that are not > being met or whatever. And this in turn makes it difficult to know > what specific objective the proposals are intended to meet. > > > At its simplest the 'cause' here is that it is very commonly the case > that domain name owners have multiple domains and wish to provision > identical trees for the two domains. For example AliceCorp.com merges > with BobCorp.com to form AliceAndBob.com. AliceCorp.com is also > registered as AliceCorp.cn and in various international variations. > > The consequences of this issue are: > > 1) Administrative difficulties > =A0 =A0 AliceCorp has multiple trees to test and verify. One could > imagine instances where the number of domains is very large (10, 20 or > more) and possibly even end up with nested zones leading to a > combinatorial issue. > > 2) SSL issues > =A0 =A0 A certificate bound to one site address may not function for all, > an issue compounded with the oversight in the SSL protocol that means > the server does not know which domain the client is attempting to > reach until after the negotiation is complete and consequently IP > addresses are used for domain name negotiation. > > 3) Cache issues > =A0 =A0 If the number of names is very large there may be caches > containing very large numbers of responses that are essentially the > same. > > 4) DNSSEC issues > =A0 =A0 Signing each domain independently will increase the cost of > running DNSSEC, number of signatures to generate etc. > > > Now we can imagine requirements coming out of these consequences > designed to mitigate them, but will they be of utility? We need to > consider the constraints: > > 1) Names must resolve reliably to be of use > =A0 =A0An aliasing scheme is not going to help matters if it means that > the resolvability of names depends on where you are. It will cause > things to break. For example Francoise writes a web page including > URLs that point to the French version of ecran.fr with the accents in. > It works perfectly for her as the local DNS resolver supports the > alias scheme. But none of her readers can read her pages as their > resolvers do not support it. > > 2) Legacy infrastructure may persist for a long time > =A0 =A0An administrative convenience that does not sork with legacy > infrastructure is going to be a nightmare, not a convenience. > > > I could support an alias scheme that was narrowly tailored to address > the efficiency issues that are raised by having multiple trees. But it > is clear to me that many of the 'problems' being raised are in fact > constraints that frustrate the requirements. > > There are two basic approaches that can be taken > > 1) Aliasing aware provisioning > > 2) Expansion of aliases to support non-compliant services > > 3) Alias records in the DNS > > > Note that any implementation of (2) will provide a means of achieving (1)= . > > Since legacy infrastructure does not support alias records, any > solution that only supports (3) is not going to meet the constraints. > > I conclude that there are two viable options 1 on its own or 2+3 which > provides the effect of 1. > > > So looking at the set of issues I conclude that if the requirement is > to mitigate the administrative difficulties we cannot escape the > provisioning/expansion approach. > > > > -- > Website: http://hallambaker.com/ > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 08:52:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9CE3A6B97; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:52:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char DE hex): To: Ond\336ej Sur\230 ) id 1OdPsw-00077A-GL for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:46:34 +0000 Received: from [207.182.41.81] (helo=hoffman.proper.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdPst-00076o-Pz for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:46:31 +0000 Received: from [130.129.99.248] (dhcp-62fb.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.98.251]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6QFk8RD082051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:46:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4C47036F.7050803@nic.cz> References: <4C459BB0.1000208@nic.cz> <4C47036F.7050803@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:46:06 +0200 To: OndÞej Sur˜ , dnssec-deployment@dnssec-deployment.org, "" , 78attendees@ietf.org, "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" , dnsop@ietf.org, tls@ietf.org From: Paul Hoffman Subject: [dnsext] Re: TLS@DNSSEC bar BoF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: At 4:25 PM +0200 7/21/10, OndÞej Sur˜ wrote: >Hi, > >sorry for crossposting again (now tls, dnsext and dnsop WGs has been added). > >The date for the BoF has been set, it will be Monday 26.7.2010 from 21:00. Now I need to find a room for 30+ people. If you have tips please mail me privately. So, where will this be a few hours? --Paul Hoffman, Director --VPN Consortium From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 09:00:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EEEE3A6C47; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rEO7MnioT079; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BAB3A6880; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdQ4A-0008bF-40 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:58:10 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdQ47-0008ay-I6 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:58:07 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8:0:112:221:6aff:fe5b:b80] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:112:221:6aff:fe5b:b80]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 520A37344D4; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:58:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C4DB08D.8060109@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:58:05 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman CC: dnssec-deployment@dnssec-deployment.org, "" , 78attendees@ietf.org, "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" , dnsop@ietf.org, tls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Re: TLS@DNSSEC bar BoF References: <4C459BB0.1000208@nic.cz> <4C47036F.7050803@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 26.7.2010 17:46, Paul Hoffman wrote: > At 4:25 PM +0200 7/21/10, OndÞej SurËœ wrote: >> Hi, >> >> sorry for crossposting again (now tls, dnsext and dnsop WGs has been added). >> >> The date for the BoF has been set, it will be Monday 26.7.2010 from 21:00. Now I need to find a room for 30+ people. If you have tips please mail me privately. > > So, where will this be a few hours? That's still TBD. Latest conclusion is to meet at registration desk and if we don't have the room at that time, we will find a place. I've changed the BarBOF wiki to include this information. Ondrej -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 10:04:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380923A69F6; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.948 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.948 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.453, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id veyOhxls05jJ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66323A6407; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdR2m-000IQL-VP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:00:48 +0000 Received: from [209.85.160.180] (helo=mail-gy0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdR2k-000IPx-9s for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:00:46 +0000 Received: by gye5 with SMTP id 5so1628399gye.11 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:00:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3RfZj8OEcOitLV6HV178oe9gmg6K8VfvLsaCeQWf/s4=; b=Q7LPBho9OXEgweg7V1m1TQxO/sJ9fiCzf+65LCFvrrosudYxARto5SX4tVhBIk7fE5 SBn1952rdgEZijcz/yXIVXbcS2DMwz6WCtjG8KEFi56Fi2p43mQhY9GsI2mmEFxXqiVQ IVH/wKMRP8irClX625+8VTinMeROhhtfxLhHE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ic2OHwMZtpIWplJkQ/BM8FbM3IT9YfH/8ZuBSNC98Od5dScqYUup2uSHRSyDfx4wib v+xsEBrsnAyq2KnNz9Cj9UcWE7zWL7PmyAbQh15rhQCdb3C59qs+IdFKB4rsrIk0ICiJ 6NeS4gJTkq9donZWVE9D/VE9ol6am3t3hATC8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.151.29 with SMTP id d29mr8206402ano.161.1280163643957; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.163.9 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:00:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4C4DBEB9.9060908@ieca.com> References: <4C459BB0.1000208@nic.cz> <4C47036F.7050803@nic.cz> <4C4DB08D.8060109@nic.cz> <4C4DBEB9.9060908@ieca.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:00:43 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [TLS] [78attendees] [dnsext] Re: TLS@DNSSEC bar BoF From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Sean Turner Cc: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= , "" , 78attendees@ietf.org, dnsop@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman , "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" , tls@ietf.org, dnssec-deployment@dnssec-deployment.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: If so, any chance of turning on the audio (apols for not making it in person, but I only started work for my new employer (Comodo Inc.) 4 hours ago). On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Sean Turner wrote: > Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD wrote: >> >> On 26.7.2010 17:46, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>> >>> At 4:25 PM +0200 7/21/10, Ond=C3=9Eej Sur=CB=9C wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> sorry for crossposting again (now tls, dnsext and dnsop WGs has been >>>> added). >>>> >>>> The date for the BoF has been set, it will be Monday 26.7.2010 from >>>> 21:00. =C2=A0Now I need to find a room for 30+ people. =C2=A0If you ha= ve tips please >>>> mail me privately. >>> >>> So, where will this be a few hours? >> >> That's still TBD. =C2=A0Latest conclusion is to meet at registration des= k and >> if we don't have the room at that time, we will find a place. =C2=A0I've= changed >> the BarBOF wiki to include this information. > > Technically, you don't need a room - you need a bar. =C2=A0The BOF wiki s= hows > Room: 01.London. =C2=A0Did you update it?* > > spt > > * Note that I won't be able to make it. > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list > TLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 10:04:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993143A68D3; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:04:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.783, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-mmo0OxMmNI; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1FB3A6407; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdR0i-000I7u-Uv for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:58:40 +0000 Received: from [209.191.68.79] (helo=smtp114.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdR0g-000I6y-76 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:58:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 72159 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2010 16:58:36 -0000 Received: from dhcp-26f6.meeting.ietf.org (turners@130.129.38.246 with plain) by smtp114.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2010 09:58:35 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: ZrP3VLSswBDL75pF8ymZHDSu9B.vcMfDPgLJ X-YMail-OSG: JuGPu7gVM1n8Fkvmxb5GSn2F4uaHImHXv8lM4_8hlXDZrK. nbyv.eLyiEk9MpphDdy5gauxuHgebVUm_B51e7Eb7jlX7T21MXePF73NYfje SklkR.JPNKxtrv1atwNDYa5O75Lx3CV72Ilb1UxEoyDwKVsT5nsMShSLui17 fujATa.G64IqC6orSa_tV_u32mHq0eSy8U3owx7vagMpCt7d6eluxJFyy_q1 jiyqKk_55yPnP0dMTbzmX4JOfpRH0agi1rpou8ON2ursUM_cn X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C4DBEB9.9060908@ieca.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:58:33 +0200 From: Sean Turner User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= CC: Paul Hoffman , "" , 78attendees@ietf.org, dnsop@ietf.org, "namedroppers@ops.ietf.org" , tls@ietf.org, dnssec-deployment@dnssec-deployment.org Subject: Re: [78attendees] [dnsext] Re: TLS@DNSSEC bar BoF References: <4C459BB0.1000208@nic.cz> <4C47036F.7050803@nic.cz> <4C4DB08D.8060109@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <4C4DB08D.8060109@nic.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: OndÅ™ej Surý wrote: > On 26.7.2010 17:46, Paul Hoffman wrote: >> At 4:25 PM +0200 7/21/10, OndÞej SurËœ wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> sorry for crossposting again (now tls, dnsext and dnsop WGs has been >>> added). >>> >>> The date for the BoF has been set, it will be Monday 26.7.2010 from >>> 21:00. Now I need to find a room for 30+ people. If you have tips >>> please mail me privately. >> >> So, where will this be a few hours? > > That's still TBD. Latest conclusion is to meet at registration desk and > if we don't have the room at that time, we will find a place. I've > changed the BarBOF wiki to include this information. Technically, you don't need a room - you need a bar. The BOF wiki shows Room: 01.London. Did you update it?* spt * Note that I won't be able to make it. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 11:19:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A043A680E; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:19:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h7Y+fpdIpInr; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E013A684B; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdSCi-000251-FQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:15:08 +0000 Received: from [87.106.162.201] (helo=ka.mail.enyo.de) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdSCe-00023T-Pj for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:15:05 +0000 Received: from [172.17.135.4] (helo=deneb.enyo.de) by ka.mail.enyo.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1OdSCZ-00032z-3b; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:14:59 +0200 Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OdSCY-0002R6-Ru; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:14:58 +0200 From: Florian Weimer To: Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?= Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <87y6cy955x.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:14:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: ("Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m=22's?= message of "Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:01:33 +0200") Message-ID: <876302w1nh.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: * Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m: >> Would it make sense to include an "insert original domain here" >> placeholder in the target part? This would help with aliasing. > > You talk about a subset of the NAPTR regexp now are you not... > > http://cloud-4711.example.com/${domain}/foo/bar > > The problem with any such thing is that you immediately end up in a > discussion on how to encode the '$' that should be in the URI. If the URI is encoded in UTF-8, you could use \255 as the marker. 8-) But I can see that this is a problem. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mon Jul 26 12:50:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30653A6934; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:50:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.47 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FRT_BELOW2=2.154, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Eg0-9wvgBQF0; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEEEA3A6925; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdTap-000Bup-FI for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:44:07 +0000 Received: from [209.85.161.180] (helo=mail-gx0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdTah-000BsT-SN for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:44:00 +0000 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22so1737567gxk.11 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:43:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=twL/tomqF0goyCgm20PxDpMWBu9a4qk9UYYXK6ZmYI4=; b=pg5dacDbkAQgJ6v7CHyCFlyXNTKfsIScHdHzEUzOq5Cagvz4s2P3Wxlb2k2ybz39tO VpW8/3sUkt4NJbsyilhTl0+9i36jU6/IdOisDgpajQstHjgkV0jEYXzVZYfwiGKxlDer 571qSP1GFr9lWaNVMogaDh1XR83V1QUZPi4R0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ZjNcUlwJkkakb2Zda0Bov5u1kXHOqspx04Xg7lFOY2fkxYxOfdqVAkxoM2uRWKpPEV tnhutCrGHAyA8ekB3mEV01zoOuapUsgFztMGv7wvfnp1avUUGTQHD6KGgCluTZKFQSjG 8cvYz4O1jcF2d0J1NDNQyBudMQJJ7maVq1Fxc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.175.40 with SMTP id c40mr8366294anp.131.1280173438215; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.37.73 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:43:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:43:57 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th From: Ted Hardie To: Frederico A C Neves Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Howdy, I do not think this proposal is quite baked enough. I would strongly suggest trying this out in private use space as the primary method of baking, because there are a lot of potential issues that may turn out to be either imaginary or un-imagined. Specifically, I think this template processing should be delayed on the following grounds from RFc 5395: 3. The documentation of the proposed RRTYPE or RRTYPE(s) is incomplete. (Additional documentation can be provided during the public comment period or by the Expert.) The template notes that the RRTYPE contains a URI, but it does not give any specific relationship between that URI and domain name at which it is found. U-NAPTR and other ways of connecting URIs and domain names start from a service (or an application), and work their way to a URI; they start, in other words, from the relationship. This proposal simply juxtaposes the two, and gives you no way to formal way to describe what relationship the URI stands in to the domain name at which it is found. If there are multiple URIs present at a domain name, should they be considered alternates? Is each independent? Is this based on internal structures of the data (e.g. the scheme)? What does that imply if there has to be truncation in the data returned? What does it mean if the URI returned is a dns uri? How about a data uri? I suspect that playing in the private use space for a while would show us that associating a URI with a domain name needs more context than a simple juxtaposition will allow. It may be that a meta-type can do this with specific uri types below it, but I think that the baseline here is that the URI type by itself will inherently sub-type (minimally by scheme and possibly by much more). That needs a lot more design than this template seems to carry, and if we don't start from that presumption, I think we'll end up with a useless swamp. Just my two cents, Ted On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Frederico A C Neves wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Bellow is a completed template requesting a new RRTYPE assignment > under the procedures of RFC5395. > > This message starts a 3 weeks period for an expert-review of the DNS > RRTYPE parameter allocation for URI specified in > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-faltstrom-uri-05 > > If you have comments on the request, please post them here before Aug > 15th 18:00 UTC > > Best Regards, > Frederico Neves > > --begin 5395 template URI-- > A. =A0 Submission Date: > > =A0 =A0 May 23, 2009 > > B. =A0 Submission Type: > > =A0 =A0 [X] New RRTYPE > =A0 =A0 [ ] Modification to existing RRTYPE > > C. =A0 Contact Information for submitter: > > =A0 =A0 Name: Patrik Faltstrom > =A0 =A0 Email Address: paf@cisco.com > =A0 =A0 International telephone number: +46-8-6859131 > =A0 =A0 Other contact handles: > =A0 =A0 (Note: This information will be publicly posted.) > > D. =A0 Motivation for the new RRTYPE application? > > =A0 =A0 There is no easy way to get from a domain name to a URI. =A0Some > =A0 =A0 mechanisms exists via use of the NAPTR [RFC3403] resource > =A0 =A0 record. =A0That implies quite complicated rules that are > =A0 =A0 simplified via the S-NAPTR [RFC3958] specification. =A0But, the > =A0 =A0 ability to directly look up a URI still exists. =A0This > =A0 =A0 specification uses a prefix based naming mechanism originated in > =A0 =A0 the definition of the SRV [RFC2782] resource record, and the > =A0 =A0 RDATA is a URI, encoded as one text field. > > =A0 =A0 See also Section 1 in draft-faltstrom-uri-05.txt. > > E. =A0 Description of the proposed RR type. > > =A0 =A0 The format of the URI resource record is as follows: > > > =A0 =A0 Ownername TTL Class URI Priority Weight Target > > > =A0 =A0 The URI RR has service information encoded in its ownername. =A0I= n > =A0 =A0 order to encode the service for a specific owner name one uses > =A0 =A0 service parameters. =A0Valid service parameters used are either > =A0 =A0 Enumservice Registrations registered by IANA, or prefixes used > =A0 =A0 for the SRV resource record. > > =A0 =A0 The wire format of the RDATA is as follows: > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2= 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 > =A0 =A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > =A0 =A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > =A0 =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Priority =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0Weight =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | > =A0 =A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > =A0 =A0/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 / > =A0 =A0/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Target = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/ > =A0 =A0/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 / > =A0 =A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > F. =A0 What existing RRTYPE or RRTYPEs come closest to filling that > =A0 =A0 need and why are they unsatisfactory? > > =A0 =A0 The RRTYPE that come closest is the NAPTR resource record. =A0It > =A0 =A0 is for example used in the DDDS and S-NAPTR algorithms. =A0The > =A0 =A0 main problem with the NAPTR is that selection of what record (or > =A0 =A0 records) one is interested in is based on data stored in the > =A0 =A0 RDATA portion of the NAPTR resource record. =A0This, as explained > =A0 =A0 in RFC 5507 [RFC5507], is not optimal for DNS lookups. =A0Further= , > =A0 =A0 most applications using NAPTR resource records uses regular > =A0 =A0 expression based rewrite rules for creation of the URI, and that > =A0 =A0 has shown be complicated to implement. > > =A0 =A0 The second closest RRTYPE is the SRV record that given a > =A0 =A0 prefixed based naming just like is suggested for the URI > =A0 =A0 resource record, one get back a port number and domain name. > =A0 =A0 This can also be used for creation of a URI, but, only URIs > =A0 =A0 without path components. > > G. =A0 What mnemonic is requested for the new RRTYPE (optional)? > > =A0 =A0 URI > > H. =A0 Does the requested RRTYPE make use of any existing IANA Registry > =A0 =A0 or require the creation of a new IANA sub-registry in DNS > =A0 =A0 Parameters? > > =A0 =A0 Yes, partially. > > =A0 =A0 One of the mechanisms to select a service is to use the > =A0 =A0 Enumservice Registry managed by IANA. =A0Another is to use > =A0 =A0 services and protocols used for SRV records. > > I. =A0 Does the proposal require/expect any changes in DNS servers/ > =A0 =A0 resolvers that prevent the new type from being processed as an > =A0 =A0 unknown RRTYPE (see [RFC3597])? > > =A0 =A0 No > > J. =A0 Comments: > > =A0 =A0 None > --end 5395 template URI-- > > From siegec@shopnet.com Mon Jul 26 15:17:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55A33A6853; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FB_QUALITY_REPLICA=10.357, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_06=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_SPEC_REPLICA_OBFU=1.812, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX_NOV5A=1.062, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7wArBnLvdHxt; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-88-213-112.cbace700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (201-88-213-112.cbace700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.88.213.112]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48253A6ABE; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201.88.213.112 by enesone.sks.com; Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:17:28 -0300 Message-ID: <000d01cb2d10$55419880$6400a8c0@siegec> From: To: Subject: Get the best deals online for the largest selection of branded watches on the Internet Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:17:28 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2D10.55419880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2D10.55419880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Now, with just a few simple clicks, you can have that watch you've alw= ays wanted!=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 We specializes in the sales of brand name quality replica timepiec= es, at some of the lowest=20 prices possible. =20 =20 =20 With our large selection of watches you can be sure to find that p= erfect timepiece that will suit=20 you best=2E =20 =20 Now, with just a few simple clicks, you can have that watch you've= always wanted!=20 =20 =20 Don't spend all your savings on that timepiece you've always longed for. 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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 27 07:47:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB163A681F; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:47:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.151 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.151 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.956, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GouC25v++pxX; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE233A6BA6; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdlKF-000KNS-3w for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:40:11 +0000 Received: from [64.102.122.149] (helo=rtp-iport-2.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdlKC-000KN4-1p for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:40:08 +0000 Authentication-Results: rtp-iport-2.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-Files: PGP.sig : 186 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEADGMTkxAZnwM/2dsb2JhbACfZnGmVZtFhTYEiGo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,268,1278288000"; d="sig'?scan'208";a="139796543" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com ([64.102.124.12]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2010 14:40:02 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-86-210.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-86-210.cisco.com [10.55.86.210]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6REe1B2011194; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:40:02 GMT Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-532--860792878" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:40:01 +0200 Cc: Frederico A C Neves , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8E0002DF-09C9-46CD-AB1B-6DE946E3D0DC@cisco.com> References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> To: Ted Hardie X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.2.3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-532--860792878 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 26 jul 2010, at 21.43, Ted Hardie wrote: > The template notes that the RRTYPE contains a URI, but it does not > give any specific relationship between that URI and domain name at > which it is found. U-NAPTR and other ways of connecting URIs > and domain names start from a service (or an application), and work > their way to a URI; they start, in other words, from the relationship. Hmm...this confuses me a bit, and it might be that you have to explain a = bit more to me what you feel is missing. I have, just in case, re-read = U-NAPTR, and do not see any difference. The U-NAPTR talk about the service type, and URI talk about the prefix = to the name (as in SRV), and the ultimate algorithm you use depends on = the registration of that service. > This proposal simply juxtaposes the two, and gives you no way to > formal way to describe what relationship the URI > stands in to the domain name at which it is found. Can you explain more what you mean by "relationship" here? Pointing to = explicit pieces in the U-NAPTR RFC would maybe be perfect, so I = understand what you mean. > If there are multiple URIs present at a domain name, > should they be considered alternates? Is each independent? Is > this based on internal structures of the data (e.g. the scheme)? What > does that imply if there has to be truncation in the data returned? > What does it mean if the URI returned is a dns uri? How about a data > uri? Many of these things are things that have to do with the service. Some = do, I admit, imply things that are solved because of the generic = description of how DDDS works, other things finally are I think unclear = for URI as well as for U-NAPTR, as they might imply generic DNS issues. I have a few other comments as well, and will complement the draft with = that information (in the form of a new version). Patrik --Apple-Mail-532--860792878 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iD8DBQFMTu/BvHlR2X0luNwRAp24AJ9sC61jdEYXqyvmcbOtzQ75eAA2sQCfQ06f mbihNDlw21x0MiyogIsqy2s= =m3P5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-532--860792878-- From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Tue Jul 27 08:13:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A84C3A6981 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:13:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: 737 VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -25.425 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-25.425 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.484, BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HS_INDEX_PARAM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MANGLED_OFF=2.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNSUB38D=0.642, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DCq88D+2aq5M for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 239-70-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net (239-70-94-178.pool.ukrtel.net [178.94.70.239]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EB68B3A6969 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:12:53 -0700 (PDT) From: 737 VIAGRA ® Official Site To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site 49% 0FF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100727151253.EB68B3A6969@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:12:53 -0700 (PDT)
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CB2DA4.B7A8CA90-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Tue Jul 27 11:55:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2977D3A687B; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:55:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.687 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.687 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.492, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W4kRVn74dZLQ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB763A6878; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdpCt-000PsK-AB for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:48:51 +0000 Received: from [209.85.215.180] (helo=mail-ey0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdpCq-000Pp4-5q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:48:48 +0000 Received: by eyz10 with SMTP id 10so1200894eyz.11 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:48:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+3U+uFSxIaYA0REnljYB2RjLw11+ezHHCHrxIId/164=; b=dEoOaZQQwp7/Ov/d0x5ArziP+5prk3MqUYMZh4AfFSJ5BTd90AvBuKoQIncyxy9rIR a3ZV3lzqHtTBhGCUb099gr3gMPkuh1Ol8i2SQH3xN8geLeqyh0i1SIy3IAfsFYjzc/P9 7uojRycvEKNqyX8wGprAq+4XtsC7IKlSRmXfw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=OXlz/3Ww/rLwgJ60qSzjA1SpaoVKMZD4vK7gDaCl9HQHOlTFxLK34GVgPjYFxpEF8h rsMaImYDmhfWqP5IHppeqDOwXXmzs3hE90JWpEPWBnJ7tSDgJX4HetIkEdnJjpwv0V4n h0XBivbtCcGyLNOHDjiaR3M9Rp8auHHJ49eWA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.37.136 with SMTP id y8mr1460582eea.24.1280256523225; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.1.75 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:48:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8E0002DF-09C9-46CD-AB1B-6DE946E3D0DC@cisco.com> References: <20100725184119.GA42253@registro.br> <8E0002DF-09C9-46CD-AB1B-6DE946E3D0DC@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:48:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] URI RRTYPE review - Comments period end Aug 15th From: Ted Hardie To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= Cc: Frederico A C Neves , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Hi Patrik, Thanks for the quick reply; sorry that I'm not in Maastricht to have this discussion over a friendly beverage (and I hear some of the beverages in Maastricht are very friendly indeed). 2010/7/27 Patrik F=E4ltstr=F6m : > On 26 jul 2010, at 21.43, Ted Hardie wrote: > >> The template notes that the RRTYPE contains a URI, but it does not >> give any specific relationship between that URI and domain name at >> which it is found. =A0U-NAPTR and other ways of connecting URIs >> and domain names start from a service (or an application), and work >> their way to a URI; they start, in other words, from the relationship. > > Hmm...this confuses me a bit, and it might be that you have to explain a = bit more to me what you feel is missing. I have, just in case, re-read U-NA= PTR, and do not see any difference. > > The U-NAPTR talk about the service type, and URI talk about the prefix to= the name (as in SRV), and the ultimate algorithm you use depends on the re= gistration of that service. > >> This proposal simply juxtaposes the two, and gives you no way to >> formal way to describe what relationship the URI >> stands in to the domain name at which it is found. > > Can you explain more what you mean by "relationship" here? Pointing to ex= plicit pieces in the U-NAPTR RFC would maybe be perfect, so I understand wh= at you mean. > Sorry that my explanation was so poor. At the moment, the draft describes a mechanism that relies on two associated things: a composed service name and an RR with fo= rmat: Ownername TTL Class URI Priority Weight Target One composed service name example you give is $ORIGIN example.com. _http._web IN URI 10 1 "http://www.example.com/" That is, someone looks up _http._web.example.com and discovers this URI there. The first issue is the one draft notes, that you must know in advance to check for this in order to populate the fields correctly. For your "two domains, one homepage" example, the querier must know in advance, in other words, to check for the _http._web.example.net in order to discover that there is another domain. That's not going to happen as an adjunct for standard web queries without a lot of other work, so it really relies on some application that wants that bit of data (as opposed to just wanting the home page). It's okay that it is only useful to applications that already know they want it, but, unfortunately, it's also not really enough. _http._web is a very general service name, and there is no way with that level of granularity to know whether the URI you're getting is meant to be an equivalent, an alternate, or to stand in some other relationship (e.g. hold meta data). Each pairing of composed service name and URI has to have some semantic that tells you what the URI has to do with the related service name. It may very well look obvious (uh, it's an imap URI dude), but there is a pretty large number of URIs with some level of ambiguity. Some are the known risks (data) and some are specific to this context (the dns URI scheme seems to be both a potentially powerful construct here and a potential source of serious confusion). This could simply mean that what _http._web.example.net points to is the URI of an alternative and what _http._web.library.example points to is meta-data. The less agreement there is, though, the less applications are going to be able to rely on this. It could also mean that we explode the service name space to include new types for each new semantic, but that has obvious downsides as well. If I create a URI record at _dns._udp.example.net with a target of dns:example.org.?clAsS=3DIN;tYpE=3DCNAME am I reporting the CNAMES which point to example.net? Or am I telling you that example.net is authoritative for the domain name that is the result of that query? The service name and URI pointer aren't really enough to know. You touch on this in the draft by noting that the service name usage may be subtly different for each RR that uses, but I think the situation is far more complicated than that. URIs are inherently sub-typable (by scheme, query, etc.), and that means that the semantics here seem to me to need a much richer description capability than the draft assumes. To tale a different example, it seems to me relatively easy to create a mechanism using this method that would give you a pointer equivalent to MX (or even CNAME). But it is not easy to be sure that the mechanism so created has that and only that function without either serious amounts of out of band knowledge and agreement or some tool beyond the current set of service name and target URI. I'm not sure that this explanation is all that much better, so feel free to batter away at the results. thanks, Ted >> If there are multiple URIs present at a domain name, >> should they be considered alternates? =A0Is each independent? =A0Is >> this based on internal structures of the data (e.g. the scheme)? =A0What >> does that imply if there has to be truncation in the data returned? >> What does it mean if the URI returned is a dns uri? =A0How about a data >> uri? > > Many of these things are things that have to do with the service. Some do= , I admit, imply things that are solved because of the generic description = of how DDDS works, other things finally are I think unclear for URI as well= as for U-NAPTR, as they might imply generic DNS issues. > > I have a few other comments as well, and will complement the draft with t= hat information (in the form of a new version). > > =A0 Patrik > > From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 03:01:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5A23A68CC; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.105 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.105 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANkCk8nt7wx2; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2815E3A681D; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 03:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe3Lc-00046y-OP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:54:48 +0000 Received: from [204.14.89.4] (helo=mail2.fluidhosting.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe3LZ-00045L-Oc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:54:45 +0000 Received: (qmail 14446 invoked by uid 399); 28 Jul 2010 09:54:43 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO lap.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPAM; 28 Jul 2010 09:54:43 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Sender: dougb@dougbarton.us Message-ID: <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:54:42 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: [dnsext] Possible equivalence solution: CLONE RR X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I sent the message below back in December, and although I've tried to prioritize finding the time to write a draft for it, I obviously haven't. However as I said in the jabber room today, I still think that this is not only a viable solution, it solves several of the problems mentioned in today's session without introducing new ones. So ... at this point I guess I'm committing to writing a draft, and prior to my actually accomplishing that I'd like to make sure that the idea stays on people's RADAR. Meanwhile I'd like to clarify my idea a little more. In the brief example below I focused on zone equivalency because in my mind the IDN TLD use case is a big driving factor for this (as well as a driver in regards to the urgency of finding a solution). But as I have envisioned it, there is no reason that a CLONE RR couldn't apply at any level of the tree. The idea I have in mind at its most fundamental is that whenever a CLONE RR is encountered that the server treat the variant "as if" what was really queried for was the preferred label. The authoritative server can handle this all itself for non-CLONE resolvers, and everything will work except DNSSEC, and without CNAME synthesis and its attendant problems. A CLONE-aware resolver would be able to generate requests for the preferred label internally, and validate DNSSEC signatures for the preferred label. There's room to quibble on setting the AD bit for variant answers. more to come ... Doug -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [dnsext] cloning zones Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:46:05 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Andrew Sullivan wrote: > No hat. > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 03:38:54PM +0000, Jim Reid wrote: >> A zone is a zone: an independently managed part of the name space. A DNS >> protocol extension to "clone" zones -- if that's what we're talking about >> here -- is not the way to solve what looks to be a provisioning problem. >> Just generate N zone files (or equivalent) from the same data source and >> we're done. Hardware's cheap. DNS engineer time isn't. > > Now our problem is that we're not actually solving the use case. > We're saying, "You, zone person, solve this." What *I* am saying is that there is no way to solve the "variant" use case (whether that's at the TLD level or higher) without trusting the delegee to Do The Right ThingTM. Furthermore, I am saying that there is no way to truly make what you and Ed seem to be describing (treat every variant as an exact, functional duplicate of the "front end" domain in every way, for every purpose, including DNSSEC) without changes to the resolvers, which is problematic politically as well. > Suppose that I am the operator of example.org, and I have a local > policy that alternative spelling of "the same word" [1] must always be > delegated the same way. > > If I delegate color.example.org and colour.example.org to the same > delegee, how can I be certain that color.example.org and > colour.example.org _really are_ the same? You can't, and you never will be able to. I actually have an idea that I'll add to the end of this message, but no matter what c!3VeR h4cKz we come up with the end result is always going to be that we have to trust the delegee. So first of all, I repeat my request for a clearer definition of the problem, political thorns and all. Those who have a distaste for trying to craft technical solutions to solve policy disputes are free not to participate. Meanwhile, I knew I should have posted this last night because it's related to the subject of your message and I don't want to sound derivative, but my idea is a completely new RR called CLONE. In the parent, you configure your zone thusly: domain NS ns1.domain.tld. ... domain DS blah variant1 CLONE domain variant2 CLONE domain ... Since Paul already said he's feeling agreeable towards config file support for this kind of idea, in a BIND server you might do something like this for the variants (assuming "normal" configuration of domain.tld): zone "variant1.tld" { clone "domain.tld"; }; and you're done. Now obviously the tricky part comes in the interaction with the resolvers. This is all very rough of course, but a CLONE-aware resolver would know what to do when it receives that response. My idea of what it should do is to "internally transpose" the string "variant1" with "domain" so that if an end user asks for "www.variant1.tld" and the resolver receives a CLONE response that says "variant1.tld == domain.tld" it can substitute "domain.tld" for queries, DNSSEC validation, etc.; then return the answers to the end user _with no mention of "domain.tld" whatsoever_. We would probably want some sort of flag to indicate that it was a CLONE response, but if we're actually going to make the two domains "the same" then there cannot be any actual difference in the ANSWER, ADDITIONAL, or AUTHORITY sections. What to do with non-CLONE-aware resolvers is obviously the tricky bit. My vote would be that if the resolver does not understand CLONE that the authoritative server simply sends the requested information as if the resolver had actually asked for "domain." Unless I'm missing something obvious that would work for all purposes except for DNSSEC, but with the root being signed with SHA-2 we've got some software revs coming up to handle DNSSEC anyway. How a resolver signals that it does or does not understand CLONE is left as an exercise for the reader. I should also add that both child and parent should have useful responses to a CLONE qtype, which could be used by interested parties to (sort of) verify that both ends of the delegation are doing what they are supposed to do, assuming once again that they can both be trusted not to forge the responses. Enjoy kicking this one around, Doug -- Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 04:17:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E20D28C153; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.89 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.118, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TOsxTrU5Mjk0; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B16A3A69D3; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe4aU-000HJQ-EU for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:14:14 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe4aR-000HIr-UB for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:14:12 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:14:10 +0800 Message-ID: <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:14:10 +0800 Message-ID: <6F11C710604E4DEAA72B80D3D415C168@LENOVO47E041CF> From: "Jiankang YAO" To: , "Mark Andrews" Cc: , References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> Subject: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:14:12 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIk1hcmsgQW5kcmV3cyIgPG1h cmthQGlzYy5vcmc+DQpUbzogPGZ1aml3YXJhQGpwcnMuY28uanA+DQpDYzogPGRvdGlzQG1haWwt YWJ1c2Uub3JnPjsgPHlhb2prQGNubmljLmNuPjsgPG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+ DQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIEp1bHkgMjEsIDIwMTAgMTo0MyBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtk bnNleHRdIGRyYWZ0LXlhby1kbnNleHQtYm5hbWUtMDMudHh0IA0KDQouLi4uLg0KPj4gRmlyc3Qg aXMgdGhhdCBhIG93bmVyIG5hbWUgaGFzIENOQU1FIFJSICsgRE5BTUUgb3IgQk5BTUUgUlIgaW4g YSByZXNwb25zZS4NCj4+IEl0IGlzIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBSRkMgMjE4MSBTZWN0aW9uIDEwLjEg IkNOQU1FIHJlc291cmNlIHJlY29yZCIuDQo+IA0KPiBXaGljaCBiZWNvbWVzIGEgbm9uLWlzc3Vl IGlmIHlvdSBzaWduYWwgQk5BTUUgYXdhcmVuZXNzIGFuZCBzZW5kIGEgQ05BTUUNCj4gb3IgYSBC TkFNRSBidXQgbmV2ZXIgYm90aC4NCj4gDQoNCmRuYW1lIGFsc28gaXNzdWVzIGEgc3ludGhlc2lz ZWQgY25hbWUgd2l0aCBkbmFtZSB0b2dldGhlci4NCg0Kc28gYm5hbWUsIGRuYW1lIGFuZCBjK2Qg YWxsIG1pZ2h0IHJlcXVpcmUgc29tZSBzaWduYWxpbmcuDQoNCg== From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 04:18:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7CA3A6A56; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:18:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.163 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VU7PcDDPOqq6; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A6C3A6980; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe4Yo-000Gqc-Ko for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:12:30 +0000 Received: from [65.99.1.131] (helo=nic-naa.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe4Ym-000Gq5-9x for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:12:28 +0000 Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-5-237.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.5.237]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6SAg4fr024369; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:42:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4C501094.7030700@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:12:20 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Possible equivalence solution: CLONE RR References: <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> In-Reply-To: <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Doug, Your note reads similar to what I recall writing, that the IDN urgency (at layer 9 or somewhere) was more correctly characterized as the SC/TC issue, and with far less specificity in the zones subject to pre-delegation review by the IANA function and allied actors, for "variants" generally, and (deep breath, your point) that the scope of any "equivalence" mechanism should not be over constrained to equivalence between any nodes in a tree which share the same direct parent. Others wrote notes similar, IIRC. Eric From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 04:37:54 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AAE3A6A17; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:37:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.06 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.06 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RiTrex2HjBbS; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59C33A6A68; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe4tc-000KJi-TP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:34:00 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:0:2::2b] (helo=mx.pao1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe4ta-000KJQ-Mn for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:33:58 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C9B1C9423; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:32:216:6fff:fe46:b75d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (not verified)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D0CE60BD; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6SBXjZI006907; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:33:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <201007281133.o6SBXjZI006907@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: "Jiankang YAO" Cc: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <6F11C710604E4DEAA72B80D3D415C168@LENOVO47E041CF> Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:14:12 +0800." <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <6F11C710604E4DEAA72B80D3D415C168@LENOVO47E041CF> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:33:45 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: You will normally have foo DNAME bla xxx.foo CNAME xxx.bla You don't have a CNAME and a DNAME with the same ownername in the response. The obvious exception would be with a DNAME to point immediately above itself with CNAME + DNAME. foo.example DNAME example xxx.foo.example CNAME xxx.example xxx.example CNAME -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 04:57:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 105153A69C6; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:57:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.105 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.105 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wf7TU864k5D8; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297AE3A68F2; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe5DJ-000NaT-DQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:54:21 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe5DH-000Na2-0p for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:54:19 +0000 Received: from Work-Laptop-2 (gatt.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.6]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6SBs7Un025114; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:54:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [192.168.0.142] by Work-Laptop-2 (PGP Universal service); Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:54:15 +0200 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Work-Laptop-2 on Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:54:15 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:54:02 +0200 To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Subject: [dnsext] an analogy Cc: ed.lewis@neustar.biz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 10.20.30.4 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Analogies are terrible for arguing points or illustrating ideas (when there is contention) but sometimes they help when trying to define a problem. The following analogy came to me in the second DNSEXR WG session and thought I would ask on the list for comments about the issues it raises. Pretend that I run a library, a traditional, bricks-and-mortar facility with real, old-fashioned books. "In front" of my collection is a card catalogue. My collection is divided into genres - youth, romance, biography, sci-fi, animation (cartoons), reference, and so on. Along comes a popular book, and I can buy just one copy, but it fits many genres - biography, romance, and a cartoon for example. Where do I put the book? How do I make sure that someone who thinks of it as a youth book finds it? How do I make sure that someone who thinks of it as a biography finds it? In this analogy, the book itself is the "first class citizen" data (records that can be the RDATA of a MX). The categories are the variants of written scripts. What is the card catalog? Obviously there can be pointers from the cards to the physical book with all of the cards being the second class citizens. The open question is, what does the card catalog translate to in DNS-life (if this analogy holds)? Is it part of the DNS at all, does it hint that maybe we have a class of "first class zones" and a class of "second class forwarder zones"? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 Spouses, like Internet protocols, lack necessary troubleshooting tools. Sigh. From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Wed Jul 28 05:32:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E0328C15C for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:32:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <9lMeYY4Pg1ml> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: 054 VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -25.758 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-25.758 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, HS_INDEX_PARAM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MANGLED_OFF=2.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNSUB38D=0.642, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_SBL=20, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9lMeYY4Pg1ml for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ndn-ip-ccache-2-vif1.telkom-ipnet.co.za (dsl-242-139-53.telkomadsl.co.za [41.242.139.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 02E5C28C123 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:32:20 -0700 (PDT) From: 054 VIAGRA ® Official Site To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site 48% 0FF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100728123221.02E5C28C123@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 06:48:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1B93A687A; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:48:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.113 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.114, BAYES_50=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESenHE3IfF0t; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA183A69D8; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe6u4-000Dpq-Q9 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:42:36 +0000 Received: from [2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe11:220a] (helo=vacation.karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe6tz-000DVf-Vm for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:42:34 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o6SDewaC024232; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:40:58 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id o6SDewZC024231; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:40:58 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:40:58 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Edward Lewis Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] an analogy Message-ID: <20100728134058.GA22680@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: see also... "additional section processing" --bill On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 01:54:02PM +0200, Edward Lewis wrote: > Analogies are terrible for arguing points or illustrating ideas (when > there is contention) but sometimes they help when trying to define a > problem. The following analogy came to me in the second DNSEXR WG > session and thought I would ask on the list for comments about the > issues it raises. > > Pretend that I run a library, a traditional, bricks-and-mortar > facility with real, old-fashioned books. "In front" of my collection > is a card catalogue. > > My collection is divided into genres - youth, romance, biography, > sci-fi, animation (cartoons), reference, and so on. Along comes a > popular book, and I can buy just one copy, but it fits many genres - > biography, romance, and a cartoon for example. > > Where do I put the book? How do I make sure that someone who thinks > of it as a youth book finds it? How do I make sure that someone who > thinks of it as a biography finds it? > > In this analogy, the book itself is the "first class citizen" data > (records that can be the RDATA of a MX). The categories are the > variants of written scripts. > > What is the card catalog? Obviously there can be pointers from the > cards to the physical book with all of the cards being the second > class citizens. The open question is, what does the card catalog > translate to in DNS-life (if this analogy holds)? Is it part of the > DNS at all, does it hint that maybe we have a class of "first class > zones" and a class of "second class forwarder zones"? > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis > NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 > > Spouses, like Internet protocols, lack necessary troubleshooting tools. > Sigh. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 06:53:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46453A6829; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:53:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.642 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.642 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.457, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wuVe0mbAbFXg; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 851ED3A680A; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe70g-000FLz-DT for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:49:26 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe70d-000FLR-TI for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:49:24 +0000 Received: from [172.20.26.41] (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3257A734484; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:49:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:49:21 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jiankang YAO CC: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, Mark Andrews , dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 28.7.2010 13:14, Jiankang YAO wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Andrews" > To: > Cc:;; > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:43 PM > Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt > > ..... >>> First is that a owner name has CNAME RR + DNAME or BNAME RR in a response. >>> It is described in RFC 2181 Section 10.1 "CNAME resource record". >> >> Which becomes a non-issue if you signal BNAME awareness and send a CNAME >> or a BNAME but never both. >> > > dname also issues a synthesised cname with dname together. > > so bname, dname and c+d all might require some signaling. As already mentioned today. C+DNAME doesn't need any additional signaling - DNAME signaling is enough. E.g. any resolver supporting DNAME will support C+DNAME out of the box. BNAME does need additional signaling, thus it needs modifications on both the resolver and the authoritative side. Ondrej -- Ondřej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 07:12:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706AB3A6A0B; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.319 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.319 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.380, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0FIM2Uhf1asF; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D253A69D2; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7Je-000JHf-D2 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:09:02 +0000 Received: from [2001:500:60::65] (helo=mx.ams1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7Jb-000JHB-Tp for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:09:00 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94EC45F985D; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:08:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:32:216:6fff:fe46:b75d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (not verified)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12748E60BD; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:08:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6SE8V5R018803; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:08:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= Cc: Jiankang YAO , fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:49:21 +0200." <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:08:31 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: In message <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz>, =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= writes: > On 28.7.2010 13:14, Jiankang YAO wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Andrews" > > To: > > Cc:;; > > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt > > > > ..... > >>> First is that a owner name has CNAME RR + DNAME or BNAME RR in a response > . > >>> It is described in RFC 2181 Section 10.1 "CNAME resource record". > >> > >> Which becomes a non-issue if you signal BNAME awareness and send a CNAME > >> or a BNAME but never both. > >> > > > > dname also issues a synthesised cname with dname together. > > > > so bname, dname and c+d all might require some signaling. > > As already mentioned today. C+DNAME doesn't need any additional > signaling - DNAME signaling is enough. E.g. any resolver supporting > DNAME will support C+DNAME out of the box. > > BNAME does need additional signaling, thus it needs modifications on > both the resolver and the authoritative side. The resolver doesn't NEED modification. It just won't be as efficient or be able to validate without signaling. Note the current draft is still missing many of the agreeded on changes. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 07:35:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66ABB28C105; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:35:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <8fNFqEL+nWgA> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Duplicate header field: "Message-ID" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.872 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.872 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.024, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8fNFqEL+nWgA; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139563A68F6; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7fM-000Ms8-CB for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:31:28 +0000 Received: from [159.226.7.146] (helo=cnnic.cn) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7fJ-000MrY-BM for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:31:25 +0000 Received: (eyou send program); Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:31:23 +0800 Message-ID: <480327483.21208@cnnic.cn> X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: yaojk@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown (HELO lenovo47e041cf) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:31:23 +0800 Message-ID: From: "Jiankang YAO" To: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= Cc: , "Mark Andrews" , , References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <480325758.19181@cnnic.cn> Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:31:31 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIk9uZMWZZWogU3Vyw70iIDxv bmRyZWouc3VyeUBuaWMuY3o+DQpUbzogIkppYW5rYW5nIFlBTyIgPHlhb2prQGNubmljLmNuPg0K Q2M6IDxmdWppd2FyYUBqcHJzLmNvLmpwPjsgIk1hcmsgQW5kcmV3cyIgPG1hcmthQGlzYy5vcmc+ OyA8ZG90aXNAbWFpbC1hYnVzZS5vcmc+OyA8bmFtZWRyb3BwZXJzQG9wcy5pZXRmLm9yZz4NClNl bnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSnVseSAyOCwgMjAxMCA5OjQ5IFBNDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW2Ruc2V4 dF0gc2lnbmFsaW5nIG9mIGJuYW1lLCBkbmFtZSBvciBjK2RuYW1lDQoNCg0KPiBPbiAyOC43LjIw MTAgMTM6MTQsIEppYW5rYW5nIFlBTyB3cm90ZToNCj4+DQo+PiAtLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNz YWdlIC0tLS0tDQo+PiBGcm9tOiAiTWFyayBBbmRyZXdzIjxtYXJrYUBpc2Mub3JnPg0KPj4gVG86 PGZ1aml3YXJhQGpwcnMuY28uanA+DQo+PiBDYzo8ZG90aXNAbWFpbC1hYnVzZS5vcmc+Ozx5YW9q a0Bjbm5pYy5jbj47PG5hbWVkcm9wcGVyc0BvcHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+PiBTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNk YXksIEp1bHkgMjEsIDIwMTAgMTo0MyBQTQ0KPj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtkbnNleHRdIGRyYWZ0 LXlhby1kbnNleHQtYm5hbWUtMDMudHh0DQo+Pg0KPj4gLi4uLi4NCj4+Pj4gRmlyc3QgaXMgdGhh dCBhIG93bmVyIG5hbWUgaGFzIENOQU1FIFJSICsgRE5BTUUgb3IgQk5BTUUgUlIgaW4gYSByZXNw b25zZS4NCj4+Pj4gSXQgaXMgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIFJGQyAyMTgxIFNlY3Rpb24gMTAuMSAiQ05B TUUgcmVzb3VyY2UgcmVjb3JkIi4NCj4+Pg0KPj4+IFdoaWNoIGJlY29tZXMgYSBub24taXNzdWUg aWYgeW91IHNpZ25hbCBCTkFNRSBhd2FyZW5lc3MgYW5kIHNlbmQgYSBDTkFNRQ0KPj4+IG9yIGEg Qk5BTUUgYnV0IG5ldmVyIGJvdGguDQo+Pj4NCj4+DQo+PiBkbmFtZSBhbHNvIGlzc3VlcyBhIHN5 bnRoZXNpc2VkIGNuYW1lIHdpdGggZG5hbWUgdG9nZXRoZXIuDQo+Pg0KPj4gc28gYm5hbWUsIGRu YW1lIGFuZCBjK2QgYWxsIG1pZ2h0IHJlcXVpcmUgc29tZSBzaWduYWxpbmcuDQo+IA0KPiBBcyBh bHJlYWR5IG1lbnRpb25lZCB0b2RheS4gIEMrRE5BTUUgZG9lc24ndCBuZWVkIGFueSBhZGRpdGlv bmFsIA0KPiBzaWduYWxpbmcgLSBETkFNRSBzaWduYWxpbmcgaXMgZW5vdWdoLiAgRS5nLiBhbnkg cmVzb2x2ZXIgc3VwcG9ydGluZyANCj4gRE5BTUUgd2lsbCBzdXBwb3J0IEMrRE5BTUUgb3V0IG9m IHRoZSBib3guDQoNCmFjdHVhbGx5LCBkbmFtZSBuZWVkIHNpZ25hbGxpbmcsIGJ1dCBjdXJyZW50 IGRuYW1lIGhhcyBubyBzdWNoIHNpZ25hbGxpbmcgbWVjaGFuaXNtLg0KDQp0aGUgc2VyaW91cyBw cm9ibGVtIGZvciBDK0ROQU1FIGlzIHRoYXQgZWl0aG9yIGRuYW1lIG9yIGNuYW1lIHdpbGwgZ2V0 IHVucmVzb2x2YWJsZSBpZiBib3RoIGFyZSBwdXQgdG9nZXRoZXIgaW4gdGhlIG5vLWNoYW5nZWQg ZG5zIHNlcnZlcnMuDQoNCnlvdSB0b2xkIHRoZSB1c2VycyB0aGF0IGMrZG5hbWUgY2FuIGJlIHRv Z3RoZXIsIGluIGZhY3QsIGlmIHRoZXkgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIHRvZ2V0aGVyLCB0aGVyZSB3aWxs IGhhdmUgYSBkbnMgcmVzbG91dGlvbiBwcm9ibGVtLg0KDQp0aGUgY2FzZSBvZiBjbmFtZSB0b2dl dGhlciB3aXRoIEROU1NFQyBSUlNJRyBpcyBkaWZmZXJlbnQgd2l0aCB0aGUgY2FzZSBvZiBjbmFt ZSB3aXRoIGRuYW1lLg0KeW91IHNldCBhIHJ1bGUgd2hpY2ggc2FpZCB0aGF0IGNuYW1lIGNhbiBu b3QgYmUgd2l0aCBycnNpZyB0b2dldGhlciwgaWYgdGhleSBoYXBwZW4gdG8gYmUgdG9nZXRoZXIs IGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgbm8gcHJvYmxlbSwgeW91IGp1c3QgYnJva2UgYSBydWxlLg0KDQp5b3Ugc2V0 IGEgcnVsZSB3aGljaCBzYWlkIHRoYXQgY25hbWUgY2FuIG5vdCBiZSB3aXRoIGRuYW1lIHRvZ2V0 aGVyLCBpZiB0aGV5IGhhcHBlbiB0byBiZSB0b2dldGhlciwgaXQgd2lsbCBoYXZlIGEgcHJvYmxl bSwgeW91ICBub3Qgb25seSBicm9rZSBhIHJ1bGUsDQpidXQgYWxzbyBnZXQgYSBwdW5pc2htZW50 IChjYXVzaW5nIGNuYW1lIG9yIGRuYW1lIHRvIGJlIHVucmVzb2x2YWJsZSkuDQoNCg0KDQoNCj4g DQo+IEJOQU1FIGRvZXMgbmVlZCBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIHNpZ25hbGluZywgdGh1cyBpdCBuZWVkcyBt b2RpZmljYXRpb25zIG9uIA0KPiBib3RoIHRoZSByZXNvbHZlciBhbmQgdGhlIGF1dGhvcml0YXRp dmUgc2lkZS4NCj4gDQoNCg0KdGhlIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBvZiBkbmFtZSBhbmQgYm5hbWUgaXMgc2Ft ZSB3aGVuIGl0IGZpcnN0IGNvbWVzIHRvIHNlcnZlIHRoZSB1c2Vycy4NCg0KaWYgZG5hbWUgZG9l cyBub3QgbmVlZCB0byB1cGRhdGUgdGhlIHJlc29sdmVyLCB3aHkgYm5hbWUgbmVlZCBpdD8NCmlm IGJuYW1lIG5lZWQgaXQsIHRoZSBkbmFtZSBuZWVkIGl0IHRvby4NCg0KdGhlIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBv ZiB0aGUgZG9tYWluIG5hbWUgY2hpbGRyZW4gZm9yIGJvdGggZG5hbWUgYW5kIGJuYW1lIGlzIGFs bW9zdCBzYW1lLg0KDQoNCg0KDQo+IE9uZHJlag0KPiAtLSANCj4gIE9uZMWZZWogU3Vyw70NCj4g IHZlZG91Y8OtIHbDvXprdW11L0hlYWQgb2YgUiZEIGRlcGFydG1lbnQNCj4gIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gIENaLk5JQywgei5zLnAuby4gICAg LS0gICAgTGFib3JhdG/FmWUgQ1ouTklDDQo+ICBBbWVyaWNrYSAyMywgMTIwIDAwIFByYWhhIDIs IEN6ZWNoIFJlcHVibGljDQo+ICBtYWlsdG86b25kcmVqLnN1cnlAbmljLmN6ICAgIGh0dHA6Ly9u aWMuY3ovDQo+ICB0ZWw6KzQyMC4yMjI3NDUxMTAgICAgICAgZmF4Ois0MjAuMjIyNzQ1MTEyDQo+ ICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 07:44:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B8C28C140; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:44:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.692 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.692 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.407, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CV8jaRH5ppXO; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0F128C171; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7ol-000OOx-LL for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:41:11 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7oi-000OOR-Kk for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:41:09 +0000 Received: from [172.20.26.41] (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1B79734365; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:41:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C504181.7060201@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:41:05 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jiankang YAO CC: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, Mark Andrews , dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <480325758.19181@cnnic.cn> <480327483.21208@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: <480327483.21208@cnnic.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 28.7.2010 16:31, Jiankang YAO wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ondřej Surý" > To: "Jiankang YAO" Cc:; "Mark > Andrews";; > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname > > >> On 28.7.2010 13:14, Jiankang YAO wrote: >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Andrews" >>> To: >>> Cc:;; >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt >>> >>> ..... >>>>> First is that a owner name has CNAME RR + DNAME or BNAME RR >>>>> in a response. It is described in RFC 2181 Section 10.1 >>>>> "CNAME resource record". >>>> >>>> Which becomes a non-issue if you signal BNAME awareness and >>>> send a CNAME or a BNAME but never both. >>>> >>> >>> dname also issues a synthesised cname with dname together. >>> >>> so bname, dname and c+d all might require some signaling. >> >> As already mentioned today. C+DNAME doesn't need any additional >> signaling - DNAME signaling is enough. E.g. any resolver >> supporting DNAME will support C+DNAME out of the box. > > actually, dname need signalling, but current dname has no such > signalling mechanism. > > the serious problem for C+DNAME is that eithor dname or cname will > get unresolvable if both are put together in the no-changed dns > servers. The owner of the zone must ensure that he uses compliant authoritative servers. I don't believe this poses any serious problem. And it has been already tested that it's not a problem on a resolver side (Bind 9.6.x, 9.7.x, Unbound 1.4.x, PowerDNS, OpenDNS, Google DNS all work just fine). If you have a test case which proves otherwise please present a real test case. > you told the users that c+dname can be togther, in fact, if they > appear to be together, there will have a dns resloution problem. What problem are you talking about? Examples and real cases please. Speaking about hypothetical problems will get us nowhere. > the case of cname together with DNSSEC RRSIG is different with the > case of cname with dname. you set a rule which said that cname can > not be with rrsig together, if they happen to be together, it will be > no problem, you just broke a rule. I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. Could you please elaborate more? > you set a rule which said that cname can not be with dname together, > if they happen to be together, it will have a problem, you not only > broke a rule, but also get a punishment (causing cname or dname to be > unresolvable). I believe this is not the case. If you can prove otherwise, please present a real test case when it breaks. >> BNAME does need additional signaling, thus it needs modifications >> on both the resolver and the authoritative side. >> > > > the situation of dname and bname is same when it first comes to serve > the users. > > if dname does not need to update the resolver, why bname need it? if > bname need it, the dname need it too. Because DNAME is already supported in DNSSEC-aware resolvers. Ondrej -- Ondřej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 07:50:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68733A6949; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:50:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.733 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.733 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.366, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5SSA2JPM93wF; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1754D28C186; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7tc-000PFm-Sc for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:12 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7ta-000PF9-6C for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:10 +0000 Received: from [172.20.26.41] (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D845734365; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:44:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C504222.8080508@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:43:46 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Andrews CC: Jiankang YAO , fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> In-Reply-To: <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 28.7.2010 16:08, Mark Andrews wrote: > In message<4C503561.4060601@nic.cz>, =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= writes: >> On 28.7.2010 13:14, Jiankang YAO wrote: >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mark Andrews" >>> To: >>> Cc:;; >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03.txt >>> >>> ..... >>>>> First is that a owner name has CNAME RR + DNAME or BNAME RR in a response >> . >>>>> It is described in RFC 2181 Section 10.1 "CNAME resource record". >>>> >>>> Which becomes a non-issue if you signal BNAME awareness and send a CNAME >>>> or a BNAME but never both. >>>> >>> >>> dname also issues a synthesised cname with dname together. >>> >>> so bname, dname and c+d all might require some signaling. >> >> As already mentioned today. C+DNAME doesn't need any additional >> signaling - DNAME signaling is enough. E.g. any resolver supporting >> DNAME will support C+DNAME out of the box. >> >> BNAME does need additional signaling, thus it needs modifications on >> both the resolver and the authoritative side. > > The resolver doesn't NEED modification. It just won't be as efficient > or be able to validate without signaling. Note the current draft is > still missing many of the agreeded on changes. Ok. What I meant was that resolver needs signaling for full support of BNAME. You are right that for "normal" operations the resolver doesn't need signaling. But we may argue that "normal" could start to mean "including the validation", now when the root is signed. But yeah, my bad for the inaccurate wording on my side in the first place. Ondrej -- Ondřej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 07:50:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A4363A6949; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FONH47hyqr9U; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBE328C180; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7uP-000PRG-Gx for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:47:01 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7uN-000PPY-BP for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:59 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC2DA101E; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Doug Barton cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Possible equivalence solution: CLONE RR In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:54:42 MST." <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> References: <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <20115.1280328418@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: doug, in the following text appears: 3.7. No changes are required for recursive nameservers, stub resolvers, or applications. for SHADOW, this was a design invariant. can you say the same for the CLONE RR? paul From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 07:53:55 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0A528C12F; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:53:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.916 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.916 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HNX3gaRsJorx; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F64228C17C; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7y9-0000Ea-IT for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:50:53 +0000 Received: from [2001:df0:8:6::72] (helo=send12.jprs.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe7y7-0000E3-7a for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:50:51 +0000 Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (sendsms12.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.114]) by send12.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6SEo4gM029847; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:50:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 092E1335C; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:50:04 +0900 (JST) X-AuditID: ca0b1172-0000000a00000914-5e-4c50439b7a0b Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:50:03 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: ondrej.sury@nic.cz Cc: yaojk@cnnic.cn, marka@isc.org, dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: PiBGcm9tOiBPbmTFmWVqIFN1csO9IDxvbmRyZWouc3VyeUBuaWMuY3o+DQo+PiBkbmFtZSBhbHNv IGlzc3VlcyBhIHN5bnRoZXNpc2VkIGNuYW1lIHdpdGggZG5hbWUgdG9nZXRoZXIuDQo+Pg0KPj4g c28gYm5hbWUsIGRuYW1lIGFuZCBjK2QgYWxsIG1pZ2h0IHJlcXVpcmUgc29tZSBzaWduYWxpbmcu DQo+IA0KPiBBcyBhbHJlYWR5IG1lbnRpb25lZCB0b2RheS4gIEMrRE5BTUUgZG9lc24ndCBuZWVk IGFueSBhZGRpdGlvbmFsDQo+IHNpZ25hbGluZyAtIEROQU1FIHNpZ25hbGluZyBpcyBlbm91Z2gu ICBFLmcuIGFueSByZXNvbHZlciBzdXBwb3J0aW5nDQo+IEROQU1FIHdpbGwgc3VwcG9ydCBDK0RO QU1FIG91dCBvZiB0aGUgYm94Lg0KDQpETkFNRSBkb2VzIG5vdCBoYXZlIHNpZ25hbGluZy4NCg0K RE5BTUUgaXRzZWxmIGRvZXMgbm90IG5lZWQgc2lnbmFsaW5nIGJlY2F1c2UgaXQgZG9lcyBub3Qg Z2VuZXJhdGUNCkNOQU1FIHdob3NlIG93bmVyIG5hbWUgaXMgc2FtZSBhcyBETkFNRSdzIG93bmVy IG5hbWUuDQoNCmRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG5zZXh0LXJmYzI2NzJiaXMtZG5hbWUtMTUgaGFzICJVbmRl cnN0YW5kLUROQU1FIiBiaXQsDQpidXQgY3VycmVudCBkcmFmdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBkZWZpbmUgIlVu ZGVyc3RhbmQtRE5BTUUiIGJpdC4NClJGQyAyNjcyIGRvZXMgbm90IGRlZmluZSBETkFNRSBzaWdu YWxpbmcuDQoNCkROQU1FK0NOQU1FIGJyZWFrcyBSRkMgMTAzNC8yMTgxLiBJdCBuZWVkcyBuZXcg c2lnbmFsaW5nLg0KSWYgbmV3IHJlc29sdmVyIHN1cHBvcnQgRE5BTUUrQ05BTUUsIGF1dGhvcml0 YXRpdmUgc2VydmVyIGNhbiByZXNwb25kDQpETkFNRStDTkFNRSBhdCBvbmUgb3duZXIgbmFtZS4N Ck90aGVyd2lzZSwgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBzZXJ2ZXIgbXVzdCByZXNwb25kIENOQU1FIG9ubHku DQoNCj4gQk5BTUUgZG9lcyBuZWVkIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgc2lnbmFsaW5nLCB0aHVzIGl0IG5lZWRz IG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgb24NCj4gYm90aCB0aGUgcmVzb2x2ZXIgYW5kIHRoZSBhdXRob3JpdGF0 aXZlIHNpZGUuDQoNClNhbWUgYXMgRE5BTUUrQ05BTUUuDQoNCkJOQU1FK0NOQU1FIGJyZWFrcyBS RkMgMTAzNC8yMTgxLiBJdCBuZWVkcyBuZXcgc2lnbmFsaW5nLg0KSWYgbmV3IHJlc29sdmVyIHN1 cHBvcnQgQk5BTUUsIGF1dGhvcml0YXRpdmUgc2VydmVyIGNhbiByZXNwb25kIEJOQU1FLg0KT3Ro ZXJ3aXNlLCBhdXRob3JpdGF0aXZlIHNlcnZlciBtdXN0IHJlc3BvbmQgQ05BTUUgb25seS4NCg0K LS0NCkthenVub3JpIEZ1aml3YXJhLCBKUFJTIDxmdWppd2FyYUBqcHJzLmNvLmpwPg0K From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 08:19:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951AE3A694C; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:19:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.461 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.461 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.895, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eIRiAR+JhtsF; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A483A68C5; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe8MP-0004td-Mz for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:15:57 +0000 Received: from [217.31.204.67] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe8MM-0004t2-W9 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:15:55 +0000 Received: from [172.20.26.41] (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4385173448B; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:15:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:15:21 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp CC: yaojk@cnnic.cn, marka@isc.org, dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 28.7.2010 16:50, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp wrote: >> From: Ondřej Surý >>> dname also issues a synthesised cname with dname together. >>> >>> so bname, dname and c+d all might require some signaling. >> >> As already mentioned today. C+DNAME doesn't need any additional >> signaling - DNAME signaling is enough. E.g. any resolver supporting >> DNAME will support C+DNAME out of the box. > > DNAME does not have signaling. > > DNAME itself does not need signaling because it does not generate > CNAME whose owner name is same as DNAME's owner name. > > draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2672bis-dname-15 has "Understand-DNAME" bit, > but current draft does not define "Understand-DNAME" bit. > RFC 2672 does not define DNAME signaling. The draft says that "Validators Must Understand DNAME". > DNAME+CNAME breaks RFC 1034/2181. It needs new signaling. The question is if it breaks just the standard, or if it breaks anything real. I think this is important distinction. > If new resolver support DNAME+CNAME, authoritative server can respond > DNAME+CNAME at one owner name. What would be the query which gets answered by DNAME+CNAME? If the query is: 1) ' IN A' will be answered by CNAME 2) 'something. IN A' will be answered by DNAME (and synthetized CNAME) > Otherwise, authoritative server must respond CNAME only. That's not true according to RFC2672 and according to RFC2672bis: The 3.1 section of the draft says: When preparing a response, a server performing a DNAME substitution will in all cases include the relevant DNAME RR in the answer section. Ondrej -- Ondřej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 08:41:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1A73A6A79; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:41:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.821, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3GpLzAfugOF9; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547D73A6768; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe8i9-0008QU-5z for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:38:25 +0000 Received: from [2001:df0:8:6::72] (helo=send12.jprs.co.jp) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe8i6-0008Pz-E8 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:38:22 +0000 Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (sendsms12.jprs.co.jp [202.11.17.114]) by send12.jprs.co.jp (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o6SFbnZ8004532; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:37:49 +0900 (JST) Received: from sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by sendsms12.jprs.co.jp (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A0CAF335E; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:37:49 +0900 (JST) X-AuditID: ca0b1172-0000000900000914-b5-4c504ecc3223 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:37:48 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20100729.003748.59675127.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> To: ondrej.sury@nic.cz Cc: yaojk@cnnic.cn, marka@isc.org, dotis@mail-abuse.org, namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp In-Reply-To: <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> References: <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: PiBGcm9tOiBPbmTFmWVqIFN1csO9IDxvbmRyZWouc3VyeUBuaWMuY3o+DQo+PiBETkFNRSBkb2Vz IG5vdCBoYXZlIHNpZ25hbGluZy4NCj4+DQo+PiBETkFNRSBpdHNlbGYgZG9lcyBub3QgbmVlZCBz aWduYWxpbmcgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBnZW5lcmF0ZQ0KPj4gQ05BTUUgd2hvc2Ugb3du ZXIgbmFtZSBpcyBzYW1lIGFzIEROQU1FJ3Mgb3duZXIgbmFtZS4NCj4+DQo+PiBkcmFmdC1pZXRm LWRuc2V4dC1yZmMyNjcyYmlzLWRuYW1lLTE1IGhhcyAiVW5kZXJzdGFuZC1ETkFNRSIgYml0LA0K Pj4gYnV0IGN1cnJlbnQgZHJhZnQgZG9lcyBub3QgZGVmaW5lICJVbmRlcnN0YW5kLUROQU1FIiBi aXQuDQo+PiBSRkMgMjY3MiBkb2VzIG5vdCBkZWZpbmUgRE5BTUUgc2lnbmFsaW5nLg0KPiANCj4g VGhlIGRyYWZ0IHNheXMgdGhhdCAiVmFsaWRhdG9ycyBNdXN0IFVuZGVyc3RhbmQgRE5BTUUiLg0K PiANCj4+IEROQU1FK0NOQU1FIGJyZWFrcyBSRkMgMTAzNC8yMTgxLiBJdCBuZWVkcyBuZXcgc2ln bmFsaW5nLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzIGlmIGl0IGJyZWFrcyBqdXN0IHRoZSBzdGFu ZGFyZCwgb3IgaWYgaXQgYnJlYWtzDQo+IGFueXRoaW5nIHJlYWwuICBJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgaXMg aW1wb3J0YW50IGRpc3RpbmN0aW9uLg0KDQpJdCBicmVha3MgdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkLg0KSXQgbWF5 IGJyZWFrIHNvbWUgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zLg0KDQpUaGVyZSBtYXkgZXhpc3QgaW1wbGVtZW50 YXRpb25zIHdoaWNoIHJlamVjdCBvciBjYXVzZSBmYWlsdXJlIGlmIHRoZXkNCnJlY2VpdmUgYSBv d25lcm5hbWUgaGFzIGJvdGggQ05BTUUgYW5kIEROQU1FIChvciBDTkFNRSBhbmQgQk5BTUUpLg0K DQpZb3UgY2Fubm90IHByb3ZlIGFsbCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBjYW4gaGFuZGxlIEROQU1FK0NO QU1FIGluIG9uZSBvd25lcm5hbWUuDQoNClRoZXJlIG1heSBiZSBzb21lIHByaXZhdGUgaW1wbGVt ZW50YXRpb25zLiBXZSBjYW5ub3Qga25vdyB0aGVtLg0KDQo+PiBJZiBuZXcgcmVzb2x2ZXIgc3Vw cG9ydCBETkFNRStDTkFNRSwgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBzZXJ2ZXIgY2FuIHJlc3BvbmQNCj4+IERO QU1FK0NOQU1FIGF0IG9uZSBvd25lciBuYW1lLg0KPiANCj4gV2hhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSB0aGUgcXVl cnkgd2hpY2ggZ2V0cyBhbnN3ZXJlZCBieSBETkFNRStDTkFNRT8NCj4gDQo+IElmIHRoZSBxdWVy eSBpczoNCj4gDQo+IDEpICc8b3duZXI+IElOIEEnIHdpbGwgYmUgYW5zd2VyZWQgYnkgQ05BTUUN Cg0KQXNzdW1lIEROQU1FK0NOQU1FIHNpZ25hbGluZyBpcyBpbXBsZW1lbnRlZC4NCkFzc3VtZSB0 aGUgcXVlcnkgaXMgZm9yIGEgZG9tYWluIG5hbWUgPG93bmVyPiB3aGljaCBoYXMgRE5BTUUgUlIg KyBDTkFNRSBSUi4NCg0KSWYgYSBuZXcgcmVzb2x2ZXIgc3VwcG9ydCBETkFNRStDTkFNRSwgYXV0 aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBzZXJ2ZXIgcmVzcG9uZHMNCic8b3duZXI+IElOIEROQU1FICsgPG93bmVyPiBJ TiBDTkFNRScgaW4gb25lIHJlc3BvbnNlLg0KDQpJZiB0aGUgcmVzb2x2ZXIgZG9lcyBub3Qgc3Vw cG9ydCBETkFNRStDTkFNRSwgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBzZXJ2ZXINCmNhbm5vdCBzZW5kICc8b3du ZXI+IElOIEROQU1FICsgPG93bmVyPiBJTiBDTkFNRScgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBicmVha3MgcmZjDQox MDM0LzIxODEsIHRoZW4gdGhlIHNlcnZlciBjYW4gc2VuZCBDTkFNRSBvbmx5ICc8b3duZXI+IElO IENOQU1FJy4NCg0KPiAyKSAnc29tZXRoaW5nLjxvd25lcj4gSU4gQScgd2lsbCBiZSBhbnN3ZXJl ZCBieSBETkFNRSAoYW5kIHN5bnRoZXRpemVkDQo+IENOQU1FKQ0KDQpBdXRob3JpdGF0aXZlIHNl cnZlciByZXNwb25kcw0KICc8b3duZXI+IElOIEROQU1FJyArICdzb21ldGhpbmcuPG93bmVyPiBJ TiBETkFNRSBzb21ldGhpbmcuPGRuYW1lPicuDQoNCj4+IE90aGVyd2lzZSwgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2 ZSBzZXJ2ZXIgbXVzdCByZXNwb25kIENOQU1FIG9ubHkuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGF0J3Mgbm90IHRydWUg YWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIFJGQzI2NzIgYW5kIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byBSRkMyNjcyYmlzOg0KPiANCj4g VGhlIDMuMSBzZWN0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBzYXlzOg0KPiANCj4gICAgV2hlbiBwcmVwYXJp bmcgYSByZXNwb25zZSwgYSBzZXJ2ZXIgcGVyZm9ybWluZyBhIEROQU1FIHN1YnN0aXR1dGlvbg0K PiAgICB3aWxsIGluIGFsbCBjYXNlcyBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSByZWxldmFudCBETkFNRSBSUiBpbiB0 aGUgYW5zd2VyDQo+ICAgIHNlY3Rpb24uDQoNClNvcnJ5LCBJIG9taXR0ZWQgd29yZHMuDQoNCklm IHRoZSBxdWVyeSBpcyBmb3IgIjxvd25lcj4iIGFuZCB0aGUgcmVzb2x2ZXIgZG9lcyBub3Qgc3Vw cG9ydA0KIkROQU1FK0NOQU1FIiwgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBzZXJ2ZXIgY2Fubm90IHJlc3BvbmQg Jzxvd25lcj4gSU4gRE5BTUUgKw0KPG93bmVyPiBJTiBDTkFNRScgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBicmVha3Mg cmZjIDEwMzQvMjE4MSwgdGhlbiB0aGUgc2VydmVyIGNhbg0Kc2VuZCBDTkFNRSBvbmx5ICc8b3du ZXI+IElOIENOQU1FJy4NCg0KSWYgdGhlIHF1ZXJ5IGlzIGZvciAic29tZXRoaW5nLjxvd25lcj4i LCBhdXRob3JpdGF0aXZlIHNlcnZlciByZXNwb25kcw0KJzxvd25lcj4gSU4gRE5BTUUnICsgJ3Nv bWV0aGluZy48b3duZXI+IElOIEROQU1FIHNvbWV0aGluZy48ZG5hbWU+Jy4NCg0KLS0NCkthenVu b3JpIEZ1aml3YXJhLCBKUFJTIDxmdWppd2FyYUBqcHJzLmNvLmpwPg0K From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 09:28:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533F43A6934; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:28:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.166, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FqJbJh4pmZ81; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668833A68B9; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9Q6-0002lY-56 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:50 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9Q3-0002l6-8t for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:47 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE20A101E for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:08:31 +1000." <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:46 +0000 Message-ID: <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > From: Mark Andrews > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:08:31 +1000 > > The resolver doesn't NEED modification. It just won't be as efficient > or be able to validate without signaling. Note the current draft is > still missing many of the agreeded on changes. not having been at the meeting, i will wait to see the new draft before i comment on this new C+D proposal. hopefully it will account for code paths like: if (cname is present) { # assume nothing else } and: if (cname not present) { # assume no cname } ...which i know i've written in currently-deployed code and i suspect that others have also done. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 09:55:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99113A6AA2; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.449, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5+Za1lOX3fXX; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E953A6AB1; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9rZ-000CGA-7i for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:52:13 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9rW-000CEh-Vh for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:52:11 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3EF3A1042 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:52:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:50:03 +0900." <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:52:10 +0000 Message-ID: <27371.1280335930@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:50:03 +0900 (JST) > From: fujiwara@jprs.co.jp > ... > DNAME+CNAME breaks RFC 1034/2181. It needs new signaling. > ... +1. which is why i think BNAME is the better proposal, since it also needs new signalling, but the signalling only controls the interpretation of a new RR type, rather than also changing the interpretation of an existing RR type. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 09:59:07 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCBB3A6A1B; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.807 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.807 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.408, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rtg-D-NaxHmu; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688CD3A6823; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9vx-000D5h-GQ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:56:45 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9vv-000D4z-0U for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:56:43 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82D5A1028 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:56:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed\, 28 Jul 2010 17\:15\:21 +0200." <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:56:42 +0000 Message-ID: <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:15:21 +0200 > From: Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD >=20 > > DNAME+CNAME breaks RFC 1034/2181. It needs new signaling. +1, as before. > The question is if it breaks just the standard, or if it breaks anything > real. I think this is important distinction. i don't. code which assumes (presence(CNAME) !=3D presence(~CNAME)) is not broken, but it will be made to be broken if we change the meaning of CNAME to allow DNAME to co-exist. as protocol stewards we should not have to prove that such code exists, unless there is no easy alternative and we really just have to redefine the rules for existing bit patterns. an easy alternative exists: BNAME. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 10:00:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124523A6A92; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.806 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.806 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MsDO7gizSLUd; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63AA3A6A90; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9xJ-000DJF-GJ for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:58:09 +0000 Received: from [209.85.160.180] (helo=mail-gy0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oe9xF-000DIJ-Fy for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:58:05 +0000 Received: by gye5 with SMTP id 5so3058340gye.11 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=pFITW0CoH/f6Qnrps60ZbtcFovXmeDm+t1zHs1vAjRA=; b=ulE8jyg7eJbFnQFwFoLSveyuuWwbCYc2e+grfllApTVHHmy9yg5DMMW2XY5aGZP7LR LE01FxvrISuCyowKzEuRPsJeuVQh6yRl9wBy6tBKRxdmDdqn89XSfFir7lmPF0C1eIej GOJKUlUXEbbYkqrVf2BW61HCXmiLy1VhJkBqg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=bRYPqxZh3cqd7hGRaG964TQe7ekgtKBNBFCTpDB1Q6e2/sAHJ5uq7sv/CBuvLIaU+q SG1G9wSaC8mO+Kh5OmG3XYxnW7xYw27Vdfk26V35Rk/82Do0SGcwXbDvSMnS9K4VEZgi Ynpfxh4Bd4973eYQcFyW8pDIN+kwEOaUFXDLU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.80.5 with SMTP id d5mr8370926agb.160.1280336281329; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.19.29 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:58:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:58:01 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] an analogy From: Brian Dickson To: Edward Lewis Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016361e87823de1ad048c758565 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: --0016361e87823de1ad048c758565 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: > Analogies are terrible for arguing points or illustrating ideas (when there > is contention) but sometimes they help when trying to define a problem. The > following analogy came to me in the second DNSEXR WG session and thought I > would ask on the list for comments about the issues it raises. > > Pretend that I run a library, a traditional, bricks-and-mortar facility > with real, old-fashioned books. "In front" of my collection is a card > catalogue. > > My collection is divided into genres - youth, romance, biography, sci-fi, > animation (cartoons), reference, and so on. Along comes a popular book, and > I can buy just one copy, but it fits many genres - biography, romance, and a > cartoon for example. > > Where do I put the book? How do I make sure that someone who thinks of it > as a youth book finds it? How do I make sure that someone who thinks of it > as a biography finds it? > > In this analogy, the book itself is the "first class citizen" data (records > that can be the RDATA of a MX). The categories are the variants of written > scripts. > > What is the card catalog? Obviously there can be pointers from the cards > to the physical book with all of the cards being the second class citizens. > The open question is, what does the card catalog translate to in DNS-life > (if this analogy holds)? Is it part of the DNS at all, does it hint that > maybe we have a class of "first class zones" and a class of "second class > forwarder zones"? > IMNSHO, it's pretty clear that the card catalog is an authority server. As in, for one or more zones, for which it is authoritative. Each "section" is a separate zone, and to guarantee someone finds the book, it needs to be put in all the appropriate section of the catalog, i.e. added to each appropriate zone, as first class data. NB - the card can be built so as to be multiply-labeled, as the format includes all the places it should be filed, effectively the back-references. Identical cards can thus be used in multiple catalogs. And, in this analogy, a delegation would be along the lines of an entry in a card catalog which points the user to another bricks-and-mortar facility, and implicitly, the card catalog of that facility. Really big libraries may in fact have duplicate card catalogs, the maintaining of which are very close analogs to maintaining zones. Add in electronic card catalogs to the physical paper ones, and you get a pretty good analogy. Note some very strong parallels in the analogy: - The card catalog entries give pertinent details about the item, but most specifically the "catalog number", be it LoC (library of congress) or Dewey Decimal System. That is the "address", and the organization of the content within the book is outside of the scope of the card catalog system. This is very much like the protocol-dependent nature of what is on a server, found at a given address (in response to looking up a name in DNS). - Each entity will have a (likely non-unique) "name", one or more (i.e. N:1) unique "catalog address(es)", and will also have a unique 1:1 identifier - the ISBN or ISSN (book or subscription, i.e. periodical, number). - What is currently absent from the DNS side of things (and not just DNS) is the unique identifier. This also impacts IP addressing and routing, and thusly all of layer 3 and 4. Perhaps the analogous uniqueness sought is the identity as currently validated through SSL certificates, and further validated via DNSSEC? The catalog is itself a set of sorted entries, where each entry is a sequence of labels organized in a canonical fashion. The analogy is that X.Y.Z in DNS, would already be re-organized to "Z, Y, X" in a card catalog based on significance. Each label sequence is fully qualified, up to the degree of uniqueness possible for first-class data. Depending on the subject matter, the label sequence for books can be quite long.... "Math, Pure, Algebra, Finite Groups, Abelian, Complex". And depending on the scope of the library, delegations to other libraries or departments may be found for many entries: "Please see the Geophysics Library for books on this subject." And failure to find the desired entry may be resolved by consulting the "master catalog", the Library of Congress catalog. (Kind of like the root, or maybe a cache with root hints and lots of cached data.) (NB - the LOC catalog is... a book!) In this analogy, BTW, catalog entries that point to books are first class citizens, as are "delegation-style" entries. The path of delegations is always expected to be a directed acyclic graph of reasonable depth. "QV" entries, on the other hand, are not fundamentally bounded, and are the analog to xNAME entries. For important kinds of things, sticking to first-class entities (delegations and authority data) are the only way to guarantee an authoritative answer in bounded timeframe, whether the answer is good, NXDOMAIN, or other definitive non-answers (SRVFAIL, NODATA, et al). Whether or not that means xNAME is viable for the IDN issue is unclear... Just my contribution to the meme thread. Brian > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Edward Lewis > NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 > > Spouses, like Internet protocols, lack necessary troubleshooting tools. > Sigh. > > --0016361e87823de1ad048c758565 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Edward = Lewis <Ed.Lewi= s@neustar.biz> wrote:
Analogies are terrible for arguing points or illustrating ideas (when there= is contention) but sometimes they help when trying to define a problem. = =A0The following analogy came to me in the second DNSEXR WG session and tho= ught I would ask on the list for comments about the issues it raises.

Pretend that I run a library, a traditional, bricks-and-mortar facility wit= h real, old-fashioned books. =A0"In front" of my collection is a = card catalogue.

My collection is divided into genres - youth, romance, biography, sci-fi, a= nimation (cartoons), reference, and so on. =A0Along comes a popular book, a= nd I can buy just one copy, but it fits many genres - biography, romance, a= nd a cartoon for example.

Where do I put the book? =A0How do I make sure that someone who thinks of i= t as a youth book finds it? =A0How do I make sure that someone who thinks o= f it as a biography finds it?

In this analogy, the book itself is the "first class citizen" dat= a (records that can be the RDATA of a MX). =A0The categories are the varian= ts of written scripts.

What is the card catalog? =A0Obviously there can be pointers from the cards= to the physical book with all of the cards being the second class citizens= . =A0The open question is, what does the card catalog translate to in DNS-l= ife (if this analogy holds)? =A0Is it part of the DNS at all, does it hint = that maybe we have a class of "first class zones" and a class of = "second class forwarder zones"?


IMNSHO, it's pretty clear that the card catal= og is an authority server. As in, for one or more zones, for which it is au= thoritative.
Each "section" is a separate zone, and to guarant= ee someone finds the book, it needs to be put in all the appropriate sectio= n of the catalog, i.e. added to each appropriate zone, as first class data.=

NB - the card can be built so as to be multiply-labeled, as the format = includes all the places it should be filed, effectively the back-references= . Identical cards can thus be used in multiple catalogs.

And, in th= is analogy, a delegation would be along the lines of an entry in a card cat= alog which points the user to another bricks-and-mortar facility, and impli= citly, the card catalog of that facility.

Really big libraries may in fact have duplicate card catalogs, the main= taining of which are very close analogs to maintaining zones.
Add in ele= ctronic card catalogs to the physical paper ones, and you get a pretty good= analogy.

Note some very strong parallels in the analogy:
- The card catalog e= ntries give pertinent details about the item, but most specifically the &qu= ot;catalog number", be it LoC (library of congress) or Dewey Decimal S= ystem. That is the "address", and the organization of the content= within the book is outside of the scope of the card catalog system. This i= s very much like the protocol-dependent nature of what is on a server, foun= d at a given address (in response to looking up a name in DNS).
- Each entity will have a (likely non-unique) "name", one or more= (i.e. N:1) unique "catalog address(es)", and will also have a un= ique 1:1 identifier - the ISBN or ISSN=A0 (book or subscription, i.e. perio= dical, number).
- What is currently absent from the DNS side of things (and not just DNS) i= s the unique identifier. This also impacts IP addressing and routing, and t= husly all of layer 3 and 4. Perhaps the analogous uniqueness sought is the = identity as currently validated through SSL certificates, and further valid= ated via DNSSEC?

The catalog is itself a set of sorted entries, where each entry is a se= quence of labels organized in a canonical fashion.
The analogy is that X= .Y.Z in DNS, would already be re-organized to "Z, Y, X" in a card= catalog based on significance.
Each label sequence is fully qualified, up to the degree of uniqueness poss= ible for first-class data. Depending on the subject matter, the label seque= nce for books can be quite long.... "Math, Pure, Algebra, Finite Group= s, Abelian, Complex".
And depending on the scope of the library, delegations to other libraries o= r departments may be found for many entries:
"Please see the Geophy= sics Library for books on this subject."
And failure to find the de= sired entry may be resolved by consulting the "master catalog", t= he Library of Congress catalog.
(Kind of like the root, or maybe a cache with root hints and lots of cached= data.)
(NB - the LOC catalog is... a book!)

In this analogy, BTW= , catalog entries that point to books are first class citizens, as are &quo= t;delegation-style" entries. The path of delegations is always expecte= d to be a directed acyclic graph of reasonable depth. "QV" entrie= s, on the other hand, are not fundamentally bounded, and are the analog to = xNAME entries.

For important kinds of things, sticking to first-class entities (delega= tions and authority data) are the only way to guarantee an authoritative an= swer in bounded timeframe, whether the answer is good, NXDOMAIN, or other d= efinitive non-answers (SRVFAIL, NODATA, et al). Whether or not that means x= NAME is viable for the IDN issue is unclear...

Just my contribution to the meme thread.

Brian


--
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -
Edward Lewis
NeuStar =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0You can leave a voice messag= e at +1-571-434-5468

Spouses, like Internet protocols, lack necessary troubleshooting tools. Sig= h.


--0016361e87823de1ad048c758565-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 10:17:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B75C628C16F; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:17:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.705 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.705 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QpV+u6otHCxJ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D091828B23E; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeADC-000GFq-Sv for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:14:34 +0000 Received: from [209.85.212.180] (helo=mail-px0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeADA-000GFO-1Q for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:14:32 +0000 Received: by pxi3 with SMTP id 3so1846376pxi.11 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:14:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc :from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=Zg7EbX+ffmpmmB3LtBarSV+jpxzrIeFyLZ4DPsSwpr4=; b=shOxpuFy1VS81kb5iPp73LwWi0/kh5NfsTLxvuBQOzaGLSi0LAi8n0IeYBCO2vsOLy vdIpbNNQzEwEZuHnNDV4s82A2UVivUTCZeoB5GxDG3CyRyD7fN/Hy/+gKT8C+UYhDFxw K1wLA6K6irWcniZAy8Zx3AEGR3Xn8TSEQPRxo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=v2dpxqaKKEG1twWMSzDwj+ixPCmgtaX6dK+UVPsPqLUBjCndk4ithWqd9lXeoktrny sVXUa9TJvlCBnETvjEcAf0jJHzbTOJwC42IUJg5BdzMBVayuSpqXKEROK/n3Xlg+wihy 8E6sDUfkDHqBOhPHvoyj45V1dNK078nKXi2yM= Received: by 10.114.39.4 with SMTP id m4mr15444157wam.98.1280337267401; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gala.icsi.berkeley.edu (gala.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU [192.150.186.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g4sm11505361wae.14.2010.07.28.10.14.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:14:26 -0700 (PDT) References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Message-Id: <2E1F9036-BBFF-435C-A46E-99B46419C7BB@icsi.berkeley.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Nicholas Weaver Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:14:24 -0700 To: Paul Vixie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Jul 28, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: >> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:15:21 +0200 >> From: Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD >>=20 >>> DNAME+CNAME breaks RFC 1034/2181. It needs new signaling. >=20 > +1, as before. >=20 >> The question is if it breaks just the standard, or if it breaks = anything >> real. I think this is important distinction. >=20 > i don't. code which assumes (presence(CNAME) !=3D presence(~CNAME)) = is not > broken, but it will be made to be broken if we change the meaning of = CNAME > to allow DNAME to co-exist. as protocol stewards we should not have = to > prove that such code exists, unless there is no easy alternative and = we > really just have to redefine the rules for existing bit patterns. >=20 > an easy alternative exists: BNAME. Question: What is the desired behavior for CNAME + DNAME? It should be possible to build a test name to see if this behavior works = or not with the actual code out there. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 10:36:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632D428C19C; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.015, BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RDNS_NONE=0.1, UPPERCASE_50_75=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8axM29PB4w+G; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9E728C179; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeAT3-000IsQ-Ah for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:30:57 +0000 Received: from [131.111.8.133] (helo=ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeAT0-000Irp-04 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:30:54 +0000 X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.54]:38603) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:fanf2) id 1OeASz-0005Cv-gE (Exim 4.72) (return-path ); Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:30:53 +0100 Received: from fanf2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local-esmtp id 1OeASz-0005qe-2Z (Exim 4.67) (return-path ); Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:30:53 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:30:53 +0100 From: Tony Finch X-X-Sender: fanf2@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk To: Paul Vixie cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> Message-ID: References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LSU 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Paul Vixie wrote: > > if (cname is present) { > # assume nothing else > } DNSSEC? Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ FAIR ISLE: NORTHWEST 3 OR 4, INCREASING 5 AT TIMES. SLIGHT OR MODERATE, BUT ROUGH FOR A TIME IN WEST. RAIN OR SHOWERS, FOG PATCHES AT FIRST. MODERATE OR GOOD, OCCASIONALLY VERY POOR AT FIRST. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 10:51:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6F63A694D; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.073 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.073 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.074, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGw9k9Yx-MdW; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD933A6974; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeAjP-000Lgq-Qq for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:47:51 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeAjN-000Lgd-R2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:47:49 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBD6A1019; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:47:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: Tony Finch cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:30:53 +0100." References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:47:49 +0000 Message-ID: <31048.1280339269@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:30:53 +0100 > From: Tony Finch > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Paul Vixie wrote: > > > > if (cname is present) { > > # assume nothing else > > } > > DNSSEC? nobody sees DNSSEC's data patterns unless they set the DO bit, so, this is not a counter-example. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 11:21:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F40B3A6A7A; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:21:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.105 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.105 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.000, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zvy60TH4gN38; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E24D3A6A59; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeBCr-0000at-Mi for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:18:17 +0000 Received: from [204.14.89.4] (helo=mail2.fluidhosting.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeBCp-0000aX-F7 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:18:15 +0000 Received: (qmail 8386 invoked by uid 399); 28 Jul 2010 18:18:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO laptop.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPAM; 28 Jul 2010 18:18:13 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Sender: dougb@dougbarton.us Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:18:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Eric Brunner-Williams cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Possible equivalence solution: CLONE RR In-Reply-To: <4C501094.7030700@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Message-ID: References: <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> <4C501094.7030700@abenaki.wabanaki.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > Doug, > > Your note reads similar to what I recall writing, that the IDN urgency (at > layer 9 or somewhere) was more correctly characterized as the SC/TC issue, > and with far less specificity in the zones subject to pre-delegation review > by the IANA function and allied actors, for "variants" generally, To the extent I understand what you're saying here I'd like to point out that the conclusions you seem to have drawn about the landscape are not necessarily the same ones I have come to. More specifically it is my understanding that there is a general class of what I loosely refer to as "IDN ccTLD issues" that extend into other scripts in addition to the SC/TC problem, but do have similar characteristics to it. I think that draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution-01 is an excellent start on describing this. > and (deep breath, your point) that the scope of any "equivalence" > mechanism should not be over constrained to equivalence between any > nodes in a tree which share the same direct parent. I would like to see us develop a solution that does not have "same direct parent" as a requirement, yes. > Others wrote notes similar, IIRC. Agreed. I hope it was clear from the previous round of discussion that I don't claim a unique, or comprehensive view of either the problem(s) or the solution(s). Doug -- Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 11:42:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55C23A68C5; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.512 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.407, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PKkRzjeUVGsy; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740EF3A681A; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeBWK-0003BG-5y for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:38:24 +0000 Received: from [204.14.89.4] (helo=mail2.fluidhosting.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeBWH-0003Ai-IV for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:38:21 +0000 Received: (qmail 8249 invoked by uid 399); 28 Jul 2010 18:38:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO laptop.dougb.net) (dougb@dougbarton.us@127.0.0.1) by localhost with ESMTPAM; 28 Jul 2010 18:38:20 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Sender: dougb@dougbarton.us Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Paul Vixie cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Possible equivalence solution: CLONE RR In-Reply-To: <20115.1280328418@nsa.vix.com> Message-ID: References: <4C4FFE62.4020500@dougbarton.us> <20115.1280328418@nsa.vix.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Paul Vixie wrote: > doug, > > in the following text appears: > > 3.7. No changes are required for recursive nameservers, stub > resolvers, or applications. > > for SHADOW, this was a design invariant. > > can you say the same for the CLONE RR? No, in fact I am specifically anticipating a "resolver" element (where that includes all 3 categories you so ably describe above) in order to make DNSSEC work at the label level instead of at the zone level. If we agree that the variant labels need to be equivalent in functionality to the preferred label, then DNSSEC is a requirement. I don't see any way to provide DNSSEC support for the variants without a resolver component (although I'd be glad to be proved wrong on this.) Back in December my original concept of CLONE RR was heavily influenced by your discussion of what became SHADOW in the sense that I agree quite strongly that we need a solution that puts as much as we can on the authoritative side in order to deploy as rapidly (and un-messily) as possible. My read of the IDN community who is interested in this solution is that they would generally be accepting of a solution that says, "You can get everything except DNSSEC today, and getting DNSSEC is simply a matter of educating your userbase on deploying new resolver code." (Of course I'm anticipating that people will find other uses for this, but IMO if we can't solve the IDN problem then there's no point in doing the work.) So you and I share a lot of common ground in our thinking here. The 2 things I don't like about SHADOW are primarily that it's zone-based as opposed to "arbitrary label based," and the "heaviness" of having to essentially duplicate an entire zone in the server. Of course you know a lot more about implementing name servers than I do, so it may be that you're right about the duplication issue and my concept of "as if" is totally off the mark. But that's why I need to write a draft so that we can discuss it further. Doug -- Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 14:03:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8E428C16E; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:03:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.179, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7wto8qocI4N2; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F3528C0ED; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeDhp-000MT3-JC for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:58:25 +0000 Received: from [209.85.213.180] (helo=mail-yx0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeDhn-000MSn-3m for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:58:23 +0000 Received: by yxm8 with SMTP id 8so1872203yxm.11 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xlJ0Vkx1cYPDhlDK9sBCUgiZlaXhNeeNhMWhDG4Z2nQ=; b=fEH5IYKy5MK+M4AWGdhH3B6icx5XFGl3j1pQ0nncAWt40+3mVvFunRxdBcWK8cAyi1 OwZtDdAnw3R36qsnzaQlmkATtHir9CeEuVVWtB0yzzdYvqQTWIA3sa+BRein4s8pWxRi 2XPzDhtgaQKGCxwiDL5l+Mh1BoUyyIE6Zi400= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=P4McR/SNrOWZMFIokD0dB6snzejpcRisP13ExbyqYYZWQfjF8+IM7cZW8WUDBWJTza TCPJ8M9zP/fiW5h5NFhAZiVL/cBB+zEukrBAk6/TxJNK8MH4mmNZJBSBn3Do6zVBICJ5 EPATkscM2oEtTLn3LtoE2ximyn55gmeDqPs3M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.167.67 with SMTP id p3mr12707016iby.20.1280350700500; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:58:20 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [dnsext] The Change of Authority Issue From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: The issue that John K. raised this morning (for me) that I had not previously considered was the possibility that we might want aliases to cross authority boundaries. This raises a whole new can of worms and may be something that is undesirable regardless of implementation. Specifically, what if someone decided that .gb should shadow .uk ? If I am running kippers.co.uk, my mail and web servers are now going to attempt to connect to me as kippers.co.gb as well. And that is not something that an SMTP or HTTP server can support transparently. At a minimum my web server needs to know to interpret Host headers containing .co.gb. We can argue over whether this is an issue that should be addressed in the application layer or not. But it is certainly not something that can be changed at the DNS level without the application layers also being affected. At root we have the possibility that a change in the upper level of the hierarchy that I do not control is going to affect my systems. And that is before we start considering the fact that .uk or .gb is a highly loaded political question and some .uk sites would definitely not with to use .gb as they are not and have never been associated with Britain. The same arguments can of course apply lower in the hierarchy. But I am rather skeptical of the value when a real domain sells for $10/yr. There are political/administrative reasons why wildcards do not have effect across authority boundaries. Those should probably be borne in mind here. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 14:43:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DDB3A6ABA; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:43:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.129 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.129 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.448, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JoXp+TjjV3vZ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE0C3A6A76; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeELp-0002A9-V7 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:45 +0000 Received: from [2001:500:60::65] (helo=mx.ams1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeELn-00029Q-PR for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:43 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4BB75F985D; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (unknown [130.129.80.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (not verified)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19EFE604A; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6SLcj5E001995; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:38:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <201007282138.o6SLcj5E001995@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Paul Vixie Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:23:46 GMT." <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:38:45 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: In message <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com>, Paul Vixie writes: > > From: Mark Andrews > > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:08:31 +1000 > > > > The resolver doesn't NEED modification. It just won't be as efficient > > or be able to validate without signaling. Note the current draft is > > still missing many of the agreeded on changes. > > not having been at the meeting, i will wait to see the new draft before i > comment on this new C+D proposal. > > hopefully it will account for code paths like: > > if (cname is present) { > # assume nothing else > } Which only becomes a issue if the qtype is DNAME. > and: > > if (cname not present) { > # assume no cname > } Which is only a problem for qtype CNAME and there is a cached DNAME. > ...which i know i've written in currently-deployed code and i suspect that > others have also done. In both cases you won't look for the other until you upgrade the code. DNAME however will continue to work with a CNAME in the cache. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 16:36:10 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A3E28C0EF; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:36:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.068 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4rxooOyAT45b; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D483A67CC; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeG4I-000Fk5-M9 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:29:46 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeG4G-000Fjo-3I for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:29:44 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EAC5A1037 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:29:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:38:45 +1000." <201007282138.o6SLcj5E001995@drugs.dv.isc.org> References: <478554939.02059@cnnic.cn> <20100720.193450.189712420.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C45BED9.3000200@mail-abuse.org> <20100721.125548.112619241.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <201007281408.o6SE8V5R018803@drugs.dv.isc.org> <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com> <201007282138.o6SLcj5E001995@drugs.dv.isc.org> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:29:42 +0000 Message-ID: <51038.1280359782@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > From: Mark Andrews > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:38:45 +1000 > > In message <25588.1280334226@nsa.vix.com>, Paul Vixie writes: > > > hopefully it will account for code paths like: > > > > if (cname is present) { > > # assume nothing else > > } > > Which only becomes a issue if the qtype is DNAME. > > > and: > > > > if (cname not present) { > > # assume no cname > > } > > Which is only a problem for qtype CNAME and there is a cached DNAME. in each case, i was considering the assumptions that an implementation can make when parsing a response that contains both, or when searching through a cache that contains both. how things get into that response or how they get into the cache is outside the scope of "correctness". > > ...which i know i've written in currently-deployed code and i suspect > > that others have also done. > > In both cases you won't look for the other until you upgrade the > code. DNAME however will continue to work with a CNAME in the cache. i'd like us to not change the meaning of a record (cname in this case) without a signalling bit (so that only people who understand the new meaning will ever see the new bit pattern.) ergo, the BNAME proposal. From alassit@k-state.edu Wed Jul 28 21:39:54 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB983A6861 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03k3HoGJVIFf for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ksu-mta02.merit.edu (ksu-mta02.merit.edu [198.108.65.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF5933A6767 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ksu-mta02.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306AD401542A; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ksu-mta02.merit.edu Received: from ksu-mta02.merit.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ksu-mta02.merit.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNgDBkO2OLL8; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ksu-mailstore01.merit.edu (unknown [198.108.65.33]) by ksu-mta02.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062B4401541C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:41:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Webmail Team Reply-To: Webmail Team Message-ID: <2125042411.101876.1280378479129.JavaMail.root@ksu-mailstore01.merit.edu> Subject: Attn: Webmail Users, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BLOCKED. 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Webmail Team accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk Warning Code: 002671 NOTE: ALL RESPONSES SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO: accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk From alassit@k-state.edu Wed Jul 28 21:39:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E370C3A6861 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wNxIJQCiEOrl for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ksu-mta02.merit.edu (ksu-mta02.merit.edu [198.108.65.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDBD3A6858 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by ksu-mta02.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306AD401542A; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ksu-mta02.merit.edu Received: from ksu-mta02.merit.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ksu-mta02.merit.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNgDBkO2OLL8; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ksu-mailstore01.merit.edu (unknown [198.108.65.33]) by ksu-mta02.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062B4401541C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:41:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Webmail Team Reply-To: Webmail Team Message-ID: <2125042411.101876.1280378479129.JavaMail.root@ksu-mailstore01.merit.edu> Subject: Attn: Webmail Users, YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE BLOCKED. 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Webmail Team accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk Warning Code: 002671 NOTE: ALL RESPONSES SHOULD BE FORWARDED TO: accountteam002671@yahoo.com.hk From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 23:42:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E763A67E7; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:42:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -98.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-98.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.316, BAYES_40=-0.185, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cCsmoyA3XsM8; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1C63A67B5; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeMjG-000Dxo-E8 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:36:30 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeMjD-000DxB-6P for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:36:27 +0000 Received: from [172.20.26.41] (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6875A7343D5; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:36:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C512168.3040502@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:36:24 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicholas Weaver CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> <2E1F9036-BBFF-435C-A46E-99B46419C7BB@icsi.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <2E1F9036-BBFF-435C-A46E-99B46419C7BB@icsi.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 28.7.2010 19:14, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Paul Vixie wrote: > >>> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:15:21 +0200 >>> From: OndÅ™ej Surý >>> >>>> DNAME+CNAME breaks RFC 1034/2181. It needs new signaling. >> >> +1, as before. >> >>> The question is if it breaks just the standard, or if it breaks anything >>> real. I think this is important distinction. >> >> i don't. code which assumes (presence(CNAME) != presence(~CNAME)) is not >> broken, but it will be made to be broken if we change the meaning of CNAME >> to allow DNAME to co-exist. as protocol stewards we should not have to >> prove that such code exists, unless there is no easy alternative and we >> really just have to redefine the rules for existing bit patterns. >> >> an easy alternative exists: BNAME. > > Question: What is the desired behavior for CNAME + DNAME? > > It should be possible to build a test name to see if this behavior works or not with the actual code out there. It's already there: dname.cz For contents of the zone: # dig IN AXFR dname.cz @{cool,ignum}.nic.cz O. -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Wed Jul 28 23:56:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4ED43A67ED; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.207 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.207 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.292, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fv0RBJ3e88NZ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5923A67E7; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeMyV-000Frr-HT for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:52:15 +0000 Received: from [2001:1488:800:400::400] (helo=mail.nic.cz) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeMyT-000FrZ-1m for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 06:52:13 +0000 Received: from [172.20.26.41] (fw.nic.cz [217.31.207.1]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31CD57343D5; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:52:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4C51251B.1060800@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:52:11 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100713 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Vixie CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> In-Reply-To: <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 28.7.2010 18:56, Paul Vixie wrote: >> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:15:21 +0200 >> From: OndÅ™ej Surý >> >>> DNAME+CNAME breaks RFC 1034/2181. It needs new signaling. > > +1, as before. > >> The question is if it breaks just the standard, or if it breaks anything >> real. I think this is important distinction. > > i don't. code which assumes (presence(CNAME) != presence(~CNAME)) is not > broken, but it will be made to be broken if we change the meaning of CNAME > to allow DNAME to co-exist. as protocol stewards we should not have to > prove that such code exists, unless there is no easy alternative and we > really just have to redefine the rules for existing bit patterns. I think that we are missing important point in this discussion. We are not going to break every existing CNAME out there. Nor the C+DNAME will get a widespread adoption at every existing site. And even if there is a code which happens to receive CNAME and DNAME together somehow, it will be broken only on those new sites. And there are only two ways how that could happen: - the app in question implements a strict cache - you ask for IN ANY at owner node (which is already broken by DNSSEC) > an easy alternative exists: BNAME. I would doubt that this is the easy alternative. From deployment perspective it's much harder to deploy this. BTW according to the current I-D (draft-yao-dnsext-bname-03) it will break the applications in the exactly same way and even easier: When preparing a response, a server performing a BNAME substitution will in all cases include the relevant BNAME RR in the answer section. A CNAME RR is synthesized and included in the answer section. So BNAME definitely needs signaling to send either BNAME or syntethized CNAME, but never both. IN Then you'll always get: IN BNAME IN CNAME Ondrej -- OndÅ™ej Surý vedoucí výzkumu/Head of R&D department ------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- LaboratoÅ™e CZ.NIC Americka 23, 120 00 Praha 2, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz http://nic.cz/ tel:+420.222745110 fax:+420.222745112 ------------------------------------------- From miamisap69@royaloaks.com Thu Jul 29 11:48:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA05E28C18A; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:48:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RiVEfQsbJI6L; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 201-42-66-66.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-42-66-66.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.42.66.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DEFE3A6873; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [201.42.66.66] (port=8096 helo=JUNIOR) by mail.royaloakslife.com with asmtp id 5456A2-0005C3-70 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:48:33 -0300 Message-ID: <0DFFFC5CB5DE435E9E304255224B4DE9@JUNIOR> From: To: Subject: Get your new watch today at an amazing price Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:48:33 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-Mras: Ok - Get all your luxury items here - Watches have never been this cheap Please click http://evs38.greatgolf.ru/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 29 12:42:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB8528C23C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:42:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AA-nI0V4R6Qq; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9663A68AB; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeYqg-0000rf-Gs for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:32:58 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:3:bb:230:48ff:fe5a:2f38] (helo=nsa.vix.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeYqa-0000qt-Ht for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:32:52 +0000 Received: from nsa.vix.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nsa.vix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98565A103E for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:32:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vixie@nsa.vix.com) From: Paul Vixie To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] signaling of bname, dname or c+dname In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu\, 29 Jul 2010 08\:52\:11 +0200." <4C51251B.1060800@nic.cz> References: <479693702.01344@cnnic.cn> <480315650.26135@cnnic.cn> <4C503561.4060601@nic.cz> <20100728.235003.39171365.fujiwara@jprs.co.jp> <4C504989.3070608@nic.cz> <27720.1280336202@nsa.vix.com> <4C51251B.1060800@nic.cz> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.1; nil; GNU Emacs 23.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:32:50 +0000 Message-ID: <18516.1280431970@nsa.vix.com> Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:52:11 +0200 > From: Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD >=20 > > an easy alternative exists: BNAME. >=20 > I would doubt that this is the easy alternative. From deployment > perspective it's much harder to deploy this. no harder than dname, surely? > ... BNAME definitely needs signaling to send either BNAME or syntethized > CNAME, but never both. agreed. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Thu Jul 29 17:58:39 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30383A69CD; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:58:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id adVIxIt9uqfa; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941933A677C; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OedpU-000DtD-Ax for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:52:04 +0000 Received: from [66.92.146.20] (helo=stora.ogud.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OedpR-000Dsx-PU for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:52:02 +0000 Received: from stora.ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id o6U0q0Qn040123 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:52:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers@stora.ogud.com) Received: (from namedroppers@localhost) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id o6U0q0hN040122 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:52:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from namedroppers) Received: from [69.17.117.52] (helo=mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OdYoT-00007u-2R for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:18:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 10405 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2010 01:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [164.99.130.58]) (federico@[130.57.22.201]) (envelope-sender ) by mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 27 Jul 2010 01:18:26 -0000 Message-ID: <4C4E33DF.6070301@acm.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:18:23 -0400 From: Federico Lucifredi User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francis Dupont CC: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs References: <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> In-Reply-To: <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.67 on 66.92.146.20 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: [ Moderators note: Post was moderated, either because it was posted by a non-subscriber, or because it was over 20K. With the massive amount of spam, it is easy to miss and therefore delete relevant posts by non-subscribers. Please fix your subscription addresses. ] I support this draft and will be glad to put the footwork in to get it passed if help is needed. The issue seems overtly clear, Francis summed it up pretty well. I would not underestimate the importance of security certification, so I would be happy to help eliminating a paradox in that angle. Best -F Francis Dupont wrote: > In your previous mail you wrote: > > 4. EXPIRED DRAFTS > > - draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-md5-deprecated > > Is anyone still interested in this draft? We have no movement on it. > > => there is a clear lack of support for this draft. I propose to give > the question to the security area so they should say if it is fine to > keep MD5 mandatory in an IETF protocol. > > Two comments: > - MD5 is used in a way (HMAC) it is not proved to be weak > > - the issue is MD5 it is forbidden for most (i.e., all I know of :-) > certified cryptos so it is not possible to run a both certified (for > the crypto) and conformant (to standards) TSIG tool. > Now it seems to be only a formal concern... > > Thanks > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > -- _________________________________________ -- "'Problem' is a bleak word for challenge" - Richard Fish (Federico L. Lucifredi) - http://www.lucifredi.com From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 02:56:57 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A547F3A6AC8; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:56:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S4GsKrDQ1+pM; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 835BE3A68AC; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OemEN-000OSv-Jh for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:50:19 +0000 Received: from [2001:4f8:0:2::2b] (helo=mx.pao1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OemEI-000OS2-A1 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:50:14 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B51A5C942D for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:50:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:32:216:6fff:fe46:b75d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "drugs.dv.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (not verified)) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3ADAE604E for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:50:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marka@isc.org) Received: from drugs.dv.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by drugs.dv.isc.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6U9iHnI036521 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:44:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from marka@drugs.dv.isc.org) Message-Id: <201007300944.o6U9iHnI036521@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org From: Mark Andrews Subject: [dnsext] draft-andrews-dnsext-multi-match-label-00 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:44:17 +1000 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: FYI ------- Forwarded Message From: IETF I-D Submission Tool To: marka@isc.org Subject: New Version Notification for draft-andrews-dnsext-multi-match-label-00 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:05:26 -0700 (PDT) A new version of I-D, draft-andrews-dnsext-multi-match-label-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Mark Andrews and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-andrews-dnsext-multi-match-label Revision: 00 Title: Multi Match Label Creation_date: 2010-07-30 WG ID: Independent Submission Number_of_pages: 5 Abstract: Idn users have expressed a need to have multiple labels be treated as one in the DNS. This document presents a method to do this by defining a new label type that ties a set of labels together that need to be treated indentically. The IETF Secretariat. ------- End of Forwarded Message From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Fri Jul 30 03:39:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71E73A67E3 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:39:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: 478 VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -19.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-19.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HS_INDEX_PARAM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MANGLED_OFF=2.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNSUB38D=0.642, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id grCszCOX5cjO for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.ss.msu.ru (ns.ss.msu.ru [195.208.221.6]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 482443A6823 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:39:02 -0700 (PDT) From: 478 VIAGRA ® Official Site To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site 09% 0FF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100730103902.482443A6823@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:39:02 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 09:18:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FC63A6A31; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.399, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x84MnloNklmq; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00183A6A11; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OesBB-0002OX-J7 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:11:25 +0000 Received: from [209.85.160.180] (helo=mail-gy0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OesB9-0002O1-9z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:11:23 +0000 Received: by gye5 with SMTP id 5so974303gye.11 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:11:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=yW1xnImgXCOBXByvxczbjc1Vlca5ZoflmQ3KXfwrDU0=; b=xRqzuYB6Q8eoKL2g68Yi5D9Hz64BLClJi7PDNhIuFUxXZdnziq68kec/RUyund+wst z42FL5j61qd8zPk3jNV5Be8UQV4nY21Ow/x2+Xe4nOV9hM3sl/6met5XPrkHvRkbRPPI aFb9p0heFp2H5IoqvCffYaxfr37NMFaQH14Mo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=u7vbRLztTYJcsGUf4p3xgaRmN/OnXZseTi8R6tCQ9AjZ9VZVQwAu89p8Zv9Dtlfygt /Dr51o8nWNqLYmcUBn8pFHmUpyZcNlHNuuaneDaZY2osedaRIjF7I5Gr1mDzDgw74u8y KmY3/6NTsqL+Bouo68dhqp1Wb3Zb3D4bu78Xs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.57.6 with SMTP id j6mr2512746ank.89.1280506281127; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:11:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> References: <20100725213920.GF8017@shinkuro.com> <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:11:21 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Francis Dupont Cc: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: My feeling is that we should shelve this and instead work on a key exchange to compliment TSIG and then deprecate HMAC-MD5 for use in that context. The reason for this is that I think DNS-CURVE meets a real need, even if the approach is not really sensitive to existing DNS code. Suggesting a move to ECC is a good idea, suggesting transport layer security is a good idea. Suggesting both in the same proposal is not. For example, most enterprises use split DNS. They do not want their internal DNS to be externally visible. But if (like me) the only corporate facility you really need most of the time is email, you can get perfectly adequate support by using SMTP and IMAP/POP over SSL. Using IPSEC just to secure the DNS part is really quite painful. This approach is much cleaner. So given that we can expect to upgrade the whole TSIG area in an important way, and given that there is no immediate security risk with MD5, I think it makes sense to have one transition rather than two. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Francis Dupont wrote: > =A0In your previous mail you wrote: > > =A0 4. =A0EXPIRED DRAFTS > > =A0 =A0 =A0 - draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-md5-deprecated > > =A0 Is anyone still interested in this draft? =A0We have no movement on i= t. > > =3D> there is a clear lack of support for this draft. I propose to give > the question to the security area so they should say if it is fine to > keep MD5 mandatory in an IETF protocol. > > Two comments: > =A0- MD5 is used in a way (HMAC) it is not proved to be weak > > =A0- the issue is MD5 it is forbidden for most (i.e., all I know of :-) > =A0certified cryptos so it is not possible to run a both certified (for > =A0the crypto) and conformant (to standards) TSIG tool. > =A0Now it seems to be only a formal concern... > > Thanks > > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 09:20:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF9A3A6845; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:20:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.882 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.882 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.387, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gCJfckhzifVq; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649783A683F; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OesGU-0003DA-5I for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:16:54 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OesGR-0003Cm-Mf for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:16:51 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so1961260iwn.11 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:16:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xJLSDLWnDJSAiSsZQq69bIPwJs3yaFYu3dtoXDFmhWg=; b=Oe9LEvXYoGUVlMbo4lNn7JfHDd9S3NXI6D7JOQWwL223eFBkiTBHnWN6cRYm2BRnvd QCquitIxvmYyGc+QykloQpzPxSlJyo55qUKAo1CLyzLQACkeP3zbBOZCTny0st2ucuzg /yKgi6Ub0sXN5xi1g39g+3FnUXFF926k/Dn7E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=ZIa/I+Xagh4yaZZjT1nihfCerltxpqDnLK3EoRWtECTSojnn28ot3eD2bV6apchaHy B4PMx5btcaykX32a+mFKiPgZXNv7CnOt4BwWi+ldZn42R4oQ01KI77DrsRr0vwCwE13w Pxg84IMLcVz2EC86OQFvjxM/2Ra2lIvYba5JY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.31.197 with SMTP id z5mr2001882ibc.80.1280506609383; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:16:48 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: One issue missing from the charter is the question of use of DNSSEC in applications. I think that this is an area that has to be looked at very carefully, even if the result is an RFC that says 'bad idea'. In particular, now that we can start to assume that there is going to be a DNSSEC capability we can think about moving network configuration data out into the DNS as a matter of course. I would like to see documents of the type 'how to easily and securely hook up a mail client to a server by means of DNSSEC secured RRs'. Part of that effort may be something that the application concerned has to deal with, but I see a need for additional DNS RRs and I would like the approach taken by email and the web and jabber to be relatively consistent. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 10:00:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E56E3A6A6E; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IoD3XFO3d1BP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E722A3A6A6A; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oest8-0008mE-Gf for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:56:50 +0000 Received: from [2001:41d0:1:6d55:211:5bff:fe98:d51e] (helo=givry.fdupont.fr) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oest5-0008kv-S4 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:56:48 +0000 Received: from givry.fdupont.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by givry.fdupont.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6UGuiaZ024710; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:56:44 GMT (envelope-from dupont@givry.fdupont.fr) Message-Id: <201007301656.o6UGuiaZ024710@givry.fdupont.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Phillip Hallam-Baker cc: Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:11:21 EDT. Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:56:44 +0200 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: In your previous mail you wrote: My feeling is that we should shelve this => there is a consensus to do (shelve) this as today we can't find a concrete need. and instead work on a key exchange to compliment TSIG => it already exists and then deprecate HMAC-MD5 for use in that context. => there is no technical reason to do that. The reason for this is that I think DNS-CURVE meets a real need => which need? For example, most enterprises use split DNS. They do not want their internal DNS to be externally visible. But if (like me) the only corporate facility you really need most of the time is email, you can get perfectly adequate support by using SMTP and IMAP/POP over SSL. Using IPSEC just to secure the DNS part is really quite painful. This => s/IPSEC/IPsec/ approach is much cleaner. => this is the (network) architecture security vs. the application security. We have both even only the application one (TSIG/TKEY and DNSSEC) is in the scope of the WG. BTW I just have the feeling you don't know TKEY (RFC 2930). Regards Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr From mj-namaste@sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 30 10:13:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC0B3A6A56 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.511 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.587, BAYES_60=1, HTML_FONT_SIZE_LARGE=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_SUBJECT=1.762] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qWOH41bsBLqk for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web83404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (web83404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.52]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 403E93A68D6 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 47045 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jul 2010 17:13:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1280510011; bh=NIWOANjg5RON8TXVjEzA8FncGYkKWBcKhP37D+BDPZ8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cIXhDdVVdy0lihcLG82ItZRqidWKFrZrBFBTy0wnU1hpGijwgdYINQKSK6Q3ocWfZwx6zHOA3OH9qLOWKtc5Y0/sYeC8KSUDi8Y0pM7ype65xewZPYajDKNidKVcA24xu67SdA/vG8zvFaOWf/PBIM25BGB4FFMBFWYOZcT9vGY= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=o9+jvi1QnmD4IgifrR6P6Cb03fesUv6DsylF2LREtA+Bb0jVIJsdQh9YzHre8yrdLdqDCsFR9O1/Jn4+/qQW87LMMA/mkqqTO8zYLUyT4hPAJ+5xCReO4whVk05bwH5UmgE/XMeVXMOlCn3jmv19APcx/qarkuc3PXBPb71buWc=; Message-ID: <651882.47031.qm@web83404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WI7M97QVM1kJgNPk4y7YaxaThKlaF758ceFk9eXzak8niHR k5p3ZRlpBgSZoe.6R04Akgbexi4Ou4qx4JbELB9J.JH6Zmzutt8ttXa_Iuxs yIfY65Hbz.qFbIlOayvn2lWEwSKx88alUFQ6uslQl70LD89fR6l8HRWQGOtT rB.znrIiuzZhPjkTAy.k5ACvZp_FxH4hCfqwHN5HBzie07XvrWGz9eWR63dQ nodqWkJjmlu6Re5uFtPREgSOrixXviuHj67M9Uw_b4AWSUGtvfiWgSrlnJCc _.kN9zCkbNzanNQ.cFK7CAZR6YXlONtMKc4TOJOgQEJt3afnAekBtN25xdK2 qxlnal1V1OUqzET3X2SbOirww_myJ9uIlTSi9Y45LqDXovreeIjrFSYGKDqz mr7vBcolAuHnGuyaEh7a7q4W9PMeZl2SjlOGVLhZx3rxBQtzvaqqpLBWW9Pl b6RxjnrpiTvzwTRd9ZvoftjCrANJn2DIbL.5ctzrf2Osgda4GcHA1K78EByr .xSis1Tz2i_mL0Q1axwpWnVVcbaD61JamDLS64tAs_mFZvxNuZh0ImPUB_Kj qH9RMpIY3rpT0olHInVpWopvuImvpuvZAWvCH0.DWRA9EKyGoUfr8wQGh9MG __DcWW9F6FPZbE2OE6HFYLe1QZz3nfgaLl7qCsJVU6dVgWIPQTIPiXY2Ee9q romf2LfOqavgBNQYV3ec2XtmHa_KwWQ5d0x7pj_FilJ8asjkGOxerff9bh1b _AK5cnlbpjPqMTrVJ3BeoSvqnhI4ntc5LK0y.9lgN6STSmvcHRcG79viS_US H9_rBWtSAKqBbrI31ijxy4ShyMbnrmotRpuKZ91M44WG6HrQDd9qjrzx_yW. 0PlXIDRwt4OoT3z9W8MRZDgFs1MVX Received: from [62.56.220.34] by web83404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.2.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Cableonda Upgrade To: undisclosed recipients: ; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-697288991-1280510011=:47031" --0-697288991-1280510011=:47031 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Cableonda.Net User This is to inform you that cableonda will be performing maintenance on thei= r cableonda database and this will cause some interruptions, to avoid your = account from being deactivated, you are to reply with your valid password h= ere: {................} for us to upgrade your account. 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--0-697288991-1280510011=:47031-- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 10:13:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559613A6A97; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.501, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M+87wu38I35x; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7885C3A6A8B; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oet5t-000BFO-IS for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:10:01 +0000 Received: from [209.85.212.180] (helo=mail-px0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oet5q-000BF1-QW for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:09:59 +0000 Received: by pxi3 with SMTP id 3so1028687pxi.11 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:09:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc :from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=dxMHXTZoMylHsmC7gx2OTf8hO8QBVSi1COrHGMpIIKw=; b=bpI1exTxLXodvHP8hUVk3sXNpCK6Ec0ocFuN4K3ZFRE30mGF3zoHyC2M74tKDaXnNa hYIymMsjPDeyRhuBsxpH/p/3GkMDHP4Mc4EJ8kTIJenKEigmGfPloVQXMst+PF0ghXMA grwYO+4waOdSp2XH0cAIbZ6rFa4dx9AJ0M8Ik= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=LF0gMM4eqxpf2tygj2gK0k9gAfMPuJ6SofP2xgiRw5NLoBMNsuKq0J8fYIM3YtGaVH mUnTDH0DxSaIb9t7FyyZPEP1dqUhPGzCFj42j4MvWH3u8EsVyB3XkKhwg4Os0YhUSxUm nBI7b5pBzjU1YxXJIIgAwDSltK8ZHevJs7MJQ= Received: by 10.114.77.11 with SMTP id z11mr2560641waa.112.1280509797172; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gala.icsi.berkeley.edu (gala.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU [192.150.186.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s5sm4107851wak.0.2010.07.30.10.09.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:09:56 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers From: Nicholas Weaver Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:09:55 -0700 To: Phillip Hallam-Baker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Jul 30, 2010, at 9:16 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > One issue missing from the charter is the question of use of DNSSEC in > applications. I think that this is an area that has to be looked at > very carefully, even if the result is an RFC that says 'bad idea'. Actually, its the exact opposite, its not just a brilliant idea, but the = only real use: DNSSEC for securing name->address mappings is worse than useless: its = actually dangerous to network stability (I'll spare everyone a repeat of = my long rant on the subject). The real use for DNSSEC is for DNSSEC-aware applications to obtain = through the DNSSEC "PKI" a name->(key material/fingerprint/certificate) = mapping which has two substantially better properties than ALL other = widely deployed PKIs: 1: There exists only a single path of trust that can produce a = compromised certificate (Contrast this with SSL where there are 66! = certificates in Firefox, ALL of which are equally trusted!). This is a = huge issue when SSL sniffers that rely on a cooperative CA are = commercially available. 2: All these PKIs overcharge for wildcard certificates. EG, even = GoDaddy, king of undercut, cut rate pricing, charges $200 for a wildcard = certificate for a domain! DNSSEC is designed to give wildcard = certificates, so DNSSEC eliminates a huge amount of price gouging on the = part of PKI vendors. Not to mention, by being wildcard certificates, = this makes multihosting cryptographic services much easier. This is, in the end, the beauty of DNSSEC: it is a cheaper to use (free = wildcarding) AND more secure (only one path of trust rather than = dozens/hundreds) PKI when compared with the alternatives,=20 > In particular, now that we can start to assume that there is going to > be a DNSSEC capability we can think about moving network configuration > data out into the DNS as a matter of course. >=20 > I would like to see documents of the type 'how to easily and securely > hook up a mail client to a server by means of DNSSEC secured RRs'. > Part of that effort may be something that the application concerned > has to deal with, but I see a need for additional DNS RRs and I would > like the approach taken by email and the web and jabber to be > relatively consistent. RRSET for (self-signed, PKI'ed, either one) X509 certs secured by the = DNSSEC ZSK. =20 Thus a DNSSEC-unaware application can fetch the X509 cert and treat it = like any other cert, but a DNSSEC-aware and validating application can = not only fetch but fully validate the signature chain. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 11:40:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408BD3A6ADB; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:40:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.756 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Aor+GnVcG5K8; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B653A67DA; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeuQh-000NGV-Mg for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:35:35 +0000 Received: from [69.17.117.50] (helo=mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeuQf-000NGG-FL for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:35:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 25261 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2010 18:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [164.99.130.58]) (federico@[130.57.22.201]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 30 Jul 2010 18:35:30 -0000 Message-ID: <4C531B70.8060505@post.harvard.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:35:28 -0400 From: Federico Lucifredi User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phillip Hallam-Baker CC: Francis Dupont , Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs References: <20100725213920.GF8017@shinkuro.com> <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: I disagree. The shelving of TSIG/MD5 makes sense on its own (albeit just on stack certification grounds - we understand that MD5 is not compromised in this use). There are no transitions: providers who care about ("no MD5" certifications will just be able to drop the support for this algorithm and claim both compliance with certification and with RFC standard. That is a simple, self-contained issue. DNScurve, which I am not a detractor to, will be mired in the usual SEC feuding for a time, regardless of outcome. Whichever side you may take on it, you know that is inevitably going to be the case. So, if a consensus can be reached on closing the smaller TSIG/MD5 issue per draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-md5, I would support that. And if the original author is too busy to pursue it, I am willing to be the "process monkey" who gets it done. Could the chairs indicate what would be the next step for this draft. Best -Federico Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > My feeling is that we should shelve this and instead work on a key > exchange to compliment TSIG and then deprecate HMAC-MD5 for use in > that context. > > The reason for this is that I think DNS-CURVE meets a real need, even > if the approach is not really sensitive to existing DNS code. > Suggesting a move to ECC is a good idea, suggesting transport layer > security is a good idea. Suggesting both in the same proposal is not. > > For example, most enterprises use split DNS. They do not want their > internal DNS to be externally visible. But if (like me) the only > corporate facility you really need most of the time is email, you can > get perfectly adequate support by using SMTP and IMAP/POP over SSL. > Using IPSEC just to secure the DNS part is really quite painful. This > approach is much cleaner. > > > So given that we can expect to upgrade the whole TSIG area in an > important way, and given that there is no immediate security risk with > MD5, I think it makes sense to have one transition rather than two. > > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Francis Dupont > wrote: >> In your previous mail you wrote: >> >> 4. EXPIRED DRAFTS >> >> - draft-ietf-dnsext-tsig-md5-deprecated >> >> Is anyone still interested in this draft? We have no movement on it. >> >> => there is a clear lack of support for this draft. I propose to give >> the question to the security area so they should say if it is fine to >> keep MD5 mandatory in an IETF protocol. >> >> Two comments: >> - MD5 is used in a way (HMAC) it is not proved to be weak >> >> - the issue is MD5 it is forbidden for most (i.e., all I know of :-) >> certified cryptos so it is not possible to run a both certified (for >> the crypto) and conformant (to standards) TSIG tool. >> Now it seems to be only a formal concern... >> >> Thanks >> >> Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr >> >> > > > -- _________________________________________ -- "'Problem' is a bleak word for challenge" - Richard Fish (Federico L. Lucifredi) - lucifred@fas.harvard.edu From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 14:16:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA063A6849; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:16:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.376, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dz5GEzuW5BwE; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999683A681F; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OewpC-000HTU-W4 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:09:02 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oewp9-000HTC-Va for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:09:00 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so2232027iwn.11 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:08:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=N9b9ZXhdF1a33CcK9aybsSTBcnnWMCLrBEU8hjrwpx4=; b=ue78t3cCeV2Mo+GFJLl4jasDO/9Mxd2Y3u1bD4MCaGlyteNWuY0AV7NItXV/diOhJL yR3qE5SIPhpwhwLB+d/WCVWdITfqSrL/Q1Y7V5IYS1ZtEn2JpE3ezazuVMjdlMQKKcIq xIS0Tu+RAIUYdDWsCYt+8SUBplG7enppLcAoI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=g0yUkc1ZPM2/8mdBdFJV0aMO57uVAqbZey0CpV+dBPnJnmwvnsgwR/VIJMQxTFL5ko YMw07z+r4wuaTqf6AvlfZxTACj6TYlVJPlB+DMIdxkqgwfDcZ7fBUtL9Ty6tLDTt41Uw WwXUPWVpEJ2FS7dD9v2wXfq5hzexicebreMN4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.37.75 with SMTP id w11mr2283760ibd.45.1280524139137; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:08:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:08:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Nicholas Weaver Cc: namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Folks who have actual security concerns may not be satisfied with a model that only provides one root of trust. That is why there is a requirement for guidance to app writers. Since I am an employee of a CA, I am not going to comment on the issue of pricing except to point out that the assumption this is a competitive threat is misguided and creates needless antagonism. At the moment we have a world where only a tiny proportion of Internet traffic uses encryption but Third Party issued certificates are used for the vast majority of those transactions. Let us imagine that we have a world where it becomes really easy to use cryptography and cryptography is now used for the vast majority of Internet transactions and Third Party Issued certs are only required for a minority of purposes. The number of Third Party issued certs would likely be considerably higher in the second case than the first even so. In my view of PKI security, the only case where a single root of trust is acceptable is when I choose the root. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > > On Jul 30, 2010, at 9:16 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > >> One issue missing from the charter is the question of use of DNSSEC in >> applications. I think that this is an area that has to be looked at >> very carefully, even if the result is an RFC that says 'bad idea'. > > Actually, its the exact opposite, its not just a brilliant idea, but the = only real use: > > DNSSEC for securing name->address mappings is worse than useless: its act= ually dangerous to network stability (I'll spare everyone a repeat of my lo= ng rant on the subject). > > > The real use for DNSSEC is for DNSSEC-aware applications to obtain throug= h the DNSSEC "PKI" a name->(key material/fingerprint/certificate) mapping w= hich has two substantially better properties than ALL other widely deployed= PKIs: > > 1: =A0There exists only a single path of trust that can produce a comprom= ised certificate (Contrast this with SSL where there are 66! certificates i= n Firefox, ALL of which are equally trusted!). =A0This is a huge issue when= SSL sniffers that rely on a cooperative CA are commercially available. > > 2: =A0All these PKIs overcharge for wildcard certificates. =A0EG, even Go= Daddy, king of undercut, cut rate pricing, charges $200 for a wildcard cert= ificate for a domain! =A0DNSSEC is designed to give wildcard certificates, = so DNSSEC eliminates a huge amount of price gouging on the part of PKI vend= ors. =A0Not to mention, by being wildcard certificates, this makes multihos= ting cryptographic services much easier. > > > > This is, in the end, the beauty of DNSSEC: it is a cheaper to use (free w= ildcarding) AND more secure (only one path of trust rather than dozens/hund= reds) PKI when compared with the alternatives, > >> In particular, now that we can start to assume that there is going to >> be a DNSSEC capability we can think about moving network configuration >> data out into the DNS as a matter of course. >> >> I would like to see documents of the type 'how to easily and securely >> hook up a mail client to a server by means of DNSSEC secured RRs'. >> Part of that effort may be something that the application concerned >> has to deal with, but I see a need for additional DNS RRs and I would >> like the approach taken by email and the web and jabber to be >> relatively consistent. > > RRSET for (self-signed, PKI'ed, either one) X509 certs secured by the DNS= SEC ZSK. > > Thus a DNSSEC-unaware application can fetch the X509 cert and treat it li= ke any other cert, but a DNSSEC-aware and validating application can not on= ly fetch but fully validate the signature chain. > > --=20 Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 15:23:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43063A6AC7; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:23:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.308, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ux3-j7juWpjA; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FB33A6B22; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oexu3-0000A5-HT for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:18:07 +0000 Received: from [193.110.157.143] (helo=newtla.xelerance.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oexu1-00009p-3D for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:18:05 +0000 Received: from tla.xelerance.com (tla.xelerance.com [193.110.157.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by newtla.xelerance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 353D9BC07; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Wouters To: Nicholas Weaver cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , namedroppers Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications In-Reply-To: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (LFD 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > RRSET for (self-signed, PKI'ed, either one) X509 certs secured by the DNSSEC ZSK. > > Thus a DNSSEC-unaware application can fetch the X509 cert and treat it like any other cert, but a DNSSEC-aware and validating application can not only fetch but fully validate the signature chain. I'd rather see you extract the public key from the cert and put a hash of that in DNS. If you then add a new EDNS option for "give me a hash of pubkey of https service if you have one", we can integrate HTTPS much better, and without stuffing all these uselesss X.509 fields into the DNS - avoiding larger packets full of cruft. Paul From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 15:25:23 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5555E3A697D; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.154, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id opx4MIu6QZ1u; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE913A687B; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oexyu-0000kg-2P for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:23:08 +0000 Received: from [193.110.157.143] (helo=newtla.xelerance.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oexyr-0000kP-UV for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:23:06 +0000 Received: from tla.xelerance.com (tla.xelerance.com [193.110.157.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by newtla.xelerance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 566A7BC07; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:23:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Wouters To: Phillip Hallam-Baker cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (LFD 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > In my view of PKI security, the only case where a single root of trust > is acceptable is when I choose the root. This implies of the 66 roots in the browser, you only need to trust one. That's not the case - you need to trust 66 of them. That does not scale. The federated DNS approach has a big advantadge. Trust moves from larger to smaller groups, you can override it at any point for your personal 1 trust anchor, and you are guaranteed the entire world sees the same view as you, making it extremely likely abuse or compromise is found really quickly. Paul From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 15:38:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0D93A6A0D; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:38:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.082 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.082 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4bXb0Le0R0IV; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57C13A6B1E; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oey7e-0001pu-46 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:32:10 +0000 Received: from [209.86.89.61] (helo=elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Oey7a-0001pT-JH for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:32:06 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=LJfWiQ8ZPWCgKYs8vYfu8nLWvNQ2kSQ53xn0fCv/fW5EPK/961Kw700E7K8f8bF3; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.45] (helo=elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Oexwf-0001Lp-BI; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:20:49 -0400 Received: from 99.93.224.206 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:20:23 -0400 Message-ID: <20351779.1280528424101.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:20:23 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Reply-To: "Jeffrey A. Williams" To: Phillip Hallam-Baker , Nicholas Weaver , OnGuardOnline@ftc.gov Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Cc: namedroppers , apaller@sans.org, benl@google.com, Ben.Wilson@IdenTrust.com, cstamer@SOLUTIONSLAWYER.NET, dansimon@microsoft.com, eddan@eff.org, fbi.dallas@ic.fbi.gov, OIG@ftc.gov, ssene@ntia.doc.gov, wilshuseng@gao.gov, greg.abbott@oag.state.tx.us, gwen@eff.org, jstyre@jstyre.com, GillespJ@staff.abanet.org, lauren@pfir.org, milone@VIRTULAW.COM, peggy.himes@nist.gov, robert.smith1@infragard.org, SenateWebmail@cornyn.senate.gov, graves.spindler@dhs.gov, stephen@sans.edu, monitor@trustedid.com, tracyhackshaw@gmail.com, vint@google.com, wendy@seltzer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: c8e3929e1e9c87a874cfc7ce3b1ad11381c87f5e519606882a6ad5f0e7c70899a96b22fb3e0b9f0d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.45 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Phillip, and all, Well made all be it rehashed argument for you IMPO exactly correct conclusion. Single roots of trust that are not of our own choosing in reality do not exist and are at least inherently insecure for obvious and varied reasons. This is, and has been a argument as well as consideration I have been making for several years now that has been in the past by a non-accepting cadre of my fellow IT security professionals. But now there seems to be a resurgence and recognition of those years ago given arguments and reasons which I believe is mostly 'rooted' < no pun intended > in recent huge breach events from significant presences of which we all know whom of which I speak, and were long ago predicted by myself and a few of my fellow IT security professionals at that time. -----Original Message----- >From: Phillip Hallam-Baker >Sent: Jul 30, 2010 4:08 PM >To: Nicholas Weaver >Cc: namedroppers >Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications > >Folks who have actual security concerns may not be satisfied with a >model that only provides one root of trust. > >That is why there is a requirement for guidance to app writers. > >Since I am an employee of a CA, I am not going to comment on the issue >of pricing except to point out that the assumption this is a >competitive threat is misguided and creates needless antagonism. > > >At the moment we have a world where only a tiny proportion of Internet >traffic uses encryption but Third Party issued certificates are used >for the vast majority of those transactions. Let us imagine that we >have a world where it becomes really easy to use cryptography and >cryptography is now used for the vast majority of Internet >transactions and Third Party Issued certs are only required for a >minority of purposes. The number of Third Party issued certs would >likely be considerably higher in the second case than the first even >so. > > >In my view of PKI security, the only case where a single root of trust >is acceptable is when I choose the root. > >On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Weaver > wrote: >> >> On Jul 30, 2010, at 9:16 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: >> >>> One issue missing from the charter is the question of use of DNSSEC in >>> applications. I think that this is an area that has to be looked at >>> very carefully, even if the result is an RFC that says 'bad idea'. >> >> Actually, its the exact opposite, its not just a brilliant idea, but the= only real use: >> >> DNSSEC for securing name->address mappings is worse than useless: its ac= tually dangerous to network stability (I'll spare everyone a repeat of my l= ong rant on the subject). >> >> >> The real use for DNSSEC is for DNSSEC-aware applications to obtain throu= gh the DNSSEC "PKI" a name->(key material/fingerprint/certificate) mapping = which has two substantially better properties than ALL other widely deploye= d PKIs: >> >> 1: =C2=A0There exists only a single path of trust that can produce a com= promised certificate (Contrast this with SSL where there are 66! certificat= es in Firefox, ALL of which are equally trusted!). =C2=A0This is a huge iss= ue when SSL sniffers that rely on a cooperative CA are commercially availab= le. >> >> 2: =C2=A0All these PKIs overcharge for wildcard certificates. =C2=A0EG, = even GoDaddy, king of undercut, cut rate pricing, charges $200 for a wildca= rd certificate for a domain! =C2=A0DNSSEC is designed to give wildcard cert= ificates, so DNSSEC eliminates a huge amount of price gouging on the part o= f PKI vendors. =C2=A0Not to mention, by being wildcard certificates, this m= akes multihosting cryptographic services much easier. >> >> >> >> This is, in the end, the beauty of DNSSEC: it is a cheaper to use (free = wildcarding) AND more secure (only one path of trust rather than dozens/hun= dreds) PKI when compared with the alternatives, >> >>> In particular, now that we can start to assume that there is going to >>> be a DNSSEC capability we can think about moving network configuration >>> data out into the DNS as a matter of course. >>> >>> I would like to see documents of the type 'how to easily and securely >>> hook up a mail client to a server by means of DNSSEC secured RRs'. >>> Part of that effort may be something that the application concerned >>> has to deal with, but I see a need for additional DNS RRs and I would >>> like the approach taken by email and the web and jabber to be >>> relatively consistent. >> >> RRSET for (self-signed, PKI'ed, either one) X509 certs secured by the DN= SSEC ZSK. >> >> Thus a DNSSEC-unaware application can fetch the X509 cert and treat it l= ike any other cert, but a DNSSEC-aware and validating application can not o= nly fetch but fully validate the signature chain. >> >> > > > >--=20 >Website: http://hallambaker.com/ > Regards, Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders and growing, = strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liabilit= y depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.co= m Phone: 214-244-4827 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 15:45:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2243A6839; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:45:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.349 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.628, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oLxrqDUcfP+W; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5F83A67F4; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyI5-00033K-Jm for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:42:57 +0000 Received: from [209.86.89.63] (helo=elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyI3-000333-3O for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:42:55 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=Mh2/NssUPVA7aaXZz57SC3kl4aa6/RATulG1U2QMgPtWwJbRpyavf34MTPE2+2pY; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.45] (helo=elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyI0-0000YD-61; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:42:52 -0400 Received: from 99.93.224.206 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:42:51 -0400 Message-ID: <28566887.1280529772030.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:42:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Reply-To: "Jeffrey A. Williams" To: Paul Wouters , Phillip Hallam-Baker Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: c8e3929e1e9c87a874cfc7ce3b1ad11381c87f5e5196068892e83902c2718b713f00444290267acc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.45 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Paul and all, Sorry I disagree with the conclusion of you argument. One doesn't need to trust all 66 of them in you example argument. One only needs to be able to trust some subset of those 66, or perhaps only one of those 66 if all others fail whatever criterian tests one has for any of same. However relying only on one that is not of your choosing inhearently provides for the opertunity for various forms of corruption by any number of parties no one else may know about until after the fact, which is sometimes of not usually the case. -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Wouters >Sent: Jul 30, 2010 5:23 PM >To: Phillip Hallam-Baker >Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers >Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications > >On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > >> In my view of PKI security, the only case where a single root of trust >> is acceptable is when I choose the root. > >This implies of the 66 roots in the browser, you only need to trust one. That's >not the case - you need to trust 66 of them. That does not scale. The federated >DNS approach has a big advantadge. Trust moves from larger to smaller groups, >you can override it at any point for your personal 1 trust anchor, and you are >guaranteed the entire world sees the same view as you, making it extremely likely >abuse or compromise is found really quickly. > >Paul > Regards, Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders and growing, strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Phone: 214-244-4827 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 15:50:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924CC3A67F4; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:50:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.506 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.471, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4riCNrfjEvv; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5263A68E7; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyMi-0003ce-JP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:47:44 +0000 Received: from [209.86.89.64] (helo=elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyMg-0003cK-5Z for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:47:42 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=SvO1JzrP4Yyd1d/DrG42X9gWnIwHia0ZD8QETlIxI6jjBuVjzNICrYd76sM2bySj; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.45] (helo=elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyMe-0007CT-93; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:47:40 -0400 Received: from 99.93.224.206 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:47:39 -0400 Message-ID: <30407171.1280530060223.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:47:40 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Reply-To: "Jeffrey A. Williams" To: Paul Wouters , Nicholas Weaver Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , namedroppers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: c8e3929e1e9c87a874cfc7ce3b1ad11381c87f5e519606889357982ab9032aae1f1cc892a730956f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.45 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Paul and all, Both approaches have merit. But I prefer Nick's better because it lends itself better to a layered approach to overall enterprise security. -----Original Message----- >From: Paul Wouters >Sent: Jul 30, 2010 5:18 PM >To: Nicholas Weaver >Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , namedroppers >Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications > >On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > >> RRSET for (self-signed, PKI'ed, either one) X509 certs secured by the DNSSEC ZSK. >> >> Thus a DNSSEC-unaware application can fetch the X509 cert and treat it like any other cert, but a DNSSEC-aware and validating application can not only fetch but fully validate the signature chain. > >I'd rather see you extract the public key from the cert and put a hash >of that in DNS. If you then add a new EDNS option for "give me a hash of >pubkey of https service if you have one", we can integrate HTTPS much >better, and without stuffing all these uselesss X.509 fields into the >DNS - avoiding larger packets full of >cruft. > >Paul > > Regards, Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders and growing, strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Phone: 214-244-4827 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 15:58:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C35B3A68CF; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:58:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.365, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nNwyR1LziV0Z; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5493A687B; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyU1-0004Sp-Rt for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:55:17 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OeyTy-0004SS-Pm for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:55:15 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so2373735iwn.11 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:55:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ckGW4d3TzD7Jf8Rq01VXDjSk6ZiE95oo47UN3GUdfIw=; b=YUsNt/qXg7azalGGgp/PNUB3OmA+B6Y8jbX8AuEWqPry6Qcgi9HyAOuuytzxRw0xRe fVz8NlHyqfyAdYNo2atioXVfvByHCA72Hkz75BWNHuxpm/46Ab65i8fqxPRm8wa8HAmX AsqJlpapMZtPVu6Q12pDXiw2d/hFfhk3zfyPc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=HlrhFvHo8jAt2CSyhSk0EZnRDyjihpwXDulM57c+3r49BwC5Cx6L4GTAnmOr04JsCC AfJH2x4dlJCmSMdEpahUquXEmIVkaZCYh/ff45GBBP48EKRTMZBuVm/IrTFPonfyDDHf 14El25K54HQRu8fCzRWtTeUkG3qeG655lm8w4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.167.67 with SMTP id p3mr2664476iby.20.1280530512130; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:55:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:55:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Paul Wouters Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: My point here is related to the charter, there are issues to discuss here. There are not 66 roots in the browser. There is only one. Think about it, the root of trust is the selection process for the browser CA 'roots'. In the case of IE that is a meta-root established through use of CTLs etc. At the moment that root is chosen for you by Microsoft or Google and there are certain business constraints there that are relevant. What I am saying is choose your own root of trust. Either edit the root store yourself or have someone you trust to do a good job edit it for you. And yes, it is a good idea to do some impedance matching between SSL and DNSSEC. But all that most people are talking about here is how to duplicate the function of the lowest tier product, Domain Validated certs. They do not provide accountability, for that you need an EV cert. As I have argued for years, any cert, even an expired self-signed one is acceptable for turning on encryption in what would otherwise be an unencrypted channel. Just don't tell the user that it is trustworthy if it is not. Lets not restrict this discussion to 'how can we use DNSSEC to replace the lowest tier in the existing PKI model'. Rather more interesting in my view is using DNSSEC to compliment EV certs. The PKI we have today was originally designed to allow for much, much more than was ever done with it. The original idea was to use PKI to secure digital commerce transactions. That is one of the problems that I would like to return to. As for whether you put certs or cert hashes in the DNS, my preference is to allow for both. As a practical matter, it is easier to restrict the use of DNS to publishing a URI and a hash rather than publish the full cert since they can be rather large in DNS terms. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > >> In my view of PKI security, the only case where a single root of trust >> is acceptable is when I choose the root. > > This implies of the 66 roots in the browser, you only need to trust one. > That's > not the case - you need to trust 66 of them. That does not scale. The > federated > DNS approach has a big advantadge. Trust moves from larger to smaller > groups, > you can override it at any point for your personal 1 trust anchor, and you > are > guaranteed the entire world sees the same view as you, making it extremely > likely > abuse or compromise is found really quickly. > > Paul > -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 16:46:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 508FD3A6842; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:46:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.103, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ae+I4BBLAXuJ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FE93A68E7; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OezCy-00090k-T2 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:41:44 +0000 Received: from [193.110.157.143] (helo=newtla.xelerance.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OezCv-00090M-Nx for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:41:42 +0000 Received: from tla.xelerance.com (tla.xelerance.com [193.110.157.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by newtla.xelerance.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012EFBC07; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:41:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Wouters To: Phillip Hallam-Baker cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (LFD 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > There are not 66 roots in the browser. There is only one. There are 66 CA's that can sign a bogus certificate you will trust for ANY usage..... It does not much matter its one entity that originally selected them. eg see the recent disaster with the signed realtek driver malware. Paul From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 17:48:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113C53A6910; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.356, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9acksb3vZgSX; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E12A53A67F2; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of0AQ-000F24-87 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:43:10 +0000 Received: from [209.85.214.180] (helo=mail-iw0-f180.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of0AM-000F1i-7s for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:43:06 +0000 Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so2500002iwn.11 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:43:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WUJIIF+Cbo/TYGp43vtobBdtWfG1Sl/QT7qvmmbT4tE=; b=YIPbniLJlcZBlgEEdeMW2PJHCA7/yBatGcR619rFU0wEW+6mAEuHyIbW5eioWmLPMB aX4V9+LGufFQ+u2og+pGjeSsvnryxIjcl5jP6Jy6YWhAhcYNKaJ8L4huCOfXI/tfnUNf HDUIxFYtUJ7qczCKhgGL1LHvnZuT6mAc6OGCw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=fX7IPSzdWPsMlTaOeUGkc+oLwgiuE3BzVCnhyxPDaO6XvSsRz6Lx1um+pov136h1xn cjP1nq5VomK83SzB9VISa2MK23LFz1iimB/ex2kdWRhQKRfdrcqCnstsURf4jsxvOiRN o4YnycKjHdwr9DqhHtgicZxvFmLGlzW+SavfA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.17.7 with SMTP id q7mr2767273iba.57.1280536984628; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.10.76 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:43:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:43:04 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications From: Phillip Hallam-Baker To: Paul Wouters Cc: Nicholas Weaver , namedroppers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Exactly, the basic problem is that there is one root of trust -- which you do not control. This has developed because there are a range of uses for SSL. Some of which do not need any particular degree of security, others of which need more. And there is a one-size-fits-all trust management scheme. You can in fact edit the trust store, if you choose to. But there are other approaches. We should be looking beyond SSL and Web browser security. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > >> There are not 66 roots in the browser. There is only one. > > There are 66 CA's that can sign a bogus certificate you will trust > for ANY usage..... It does not much matter its one entity that > originally selected them. > > eg see the recent disaster with the signed realtek driver malware. > > Paul > > -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 17:58:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A233A6937; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:58:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f0tONJOniQnK; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE74D3A6922; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of0Lt-000GO0-S0 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:55:01 +0000 Received: from [208.86.224.201] (helo=mail.yitter.info) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of0Lr-000GNU-Bf for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:54:59 +0000 Received: from crankycanuck.ca (217.64.255.226.mactelecom.net [217.64.255.226]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C80D01ECB41D for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:54:57 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:54:55 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Message-ID: <20100731005454.GE26174@shinkuro.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:16:48PM -0400, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > One issue missing from the charter is the question of use of DNSSEC in > applications. It certainly is not missing from the charter in the sense that it is our problem, and we need to tackle it. We are narrowly focussed on issues of the DNS protocol. Nothing about how applications get to DNS results, &c, are our problem. Indeed, they're not even the problem of the _area_ we are in: they're more likely to be APP than INT. All of that said, I encourage people who think there are application-level issues here to submit individual drafts. If there were three or four such drafts that talked about application-level interaction with DNSSEC, it might strike people who are inclined to try to organize IETF work (i.e. all of us, right?!) that we could take steps to co-ordinate that work (i.e. form a working group). Of course, we already have some efforts in that direction. But the key thing, under the current process rules, is to have a manifest community of interested parties. Let's see those internet drafts! I am sure that, though this sort of work be out of our charter, your chairs will not object to the occasional announcement about such drafts. When it gets heavy, we'll ask for a separate IETF mail list. Alternatively, ask for one (perhaps M. Sury wull suggest that you should use the one he is setting up.) Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@shinkuro.com Shinkuro, Inc. From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Fri Jul 30 19:28:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7023A686D; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:28:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.227 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.227 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.372, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ywvpPiHKrhiw; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD463A67D3; Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of1ie-000OvD-PG for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:22:36 +0000 Received: from [2001:478:6:0:230:48ff:fe11:220a] (helo=vacation.karoshi.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of1iZ-000OlD-Vd for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:22:34 +0000 Received: from karoshi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o6V2L7jq010763; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:21:07 GMT Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by karoshi.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id o6V2L5I5010762; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:21:05 GMT Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:21:05 +0000 From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com To: Nicholas Weaver Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , namedroppers Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Message-ID: <20100731022105.GC10608@vacation.karoshi.com.> References: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <34F2CFD6-EE08-4BEA-86B1-BCD12755CECE@icsi.berkeley.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:09:55AM -0700, Nicholas Weaver wrote: > > 1: There exists only a single path of trust that can produce a compromised certificate (Contrast this with SSL where there are 66! certificates in Firefox, ALL of which are equally trusted!). This is a huge issue when SSL sniffers that rely on a cooperative CA are commercially available. this is patently false. there are at least -two- trust paths. the place where they converge is only at the root. the one thing that worries me is that trust is not transitive, the DNS admin is generally not the sysadmin of the node in question and so syncronization between the sysadmin and the DNS admin(s) is an exploitable channel. --bill From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 03:40:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D453A6836; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 03:40:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.288 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.288 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4xZKv+FvEP1B; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 03:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0957F3A6814; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 03:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of9OB-000Lzs-It for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:33:59 +0000 Received: from [2001:500:60::65] (helo=mx.ams1.isc.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Of9O8-000LzP-Jj for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:33:57 +0000 Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:bb::5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "farside.isc.org", Issuer "ISC CA" (verified OK)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86C255F98EA; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:33:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jelte@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.8.11] (vhe-520087.sshn.net [195.169.221.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by farside.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC33CE6030; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:33:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jelte@isc.org) Message-ID: <4C53FC00.6030402@isc.org> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 12:33:36 +0200 From: Jelte Jansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100713 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan CC: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications References: <20100731005454.GE26174@shinkuro.com> In-Reply-To: <20100731005454.GE26174@shinkuro.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/31/2010 02:54 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:16:48PM -0400, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: >> One issue missing from the charter is the question of use of DNSSEC in >> applications. > > It certainly is not missing from the charter in the sense that it is > our problem, and we need to tackle it. > stop pushing more work to this wg :p > We are narrowly focussed on issues of the DNS protocol. Nothing about > how applications get to DNS results, &c, are our problem. Indeed, > they're not even the problem of the _area_ we are in: they're more > likely to be APP than INT. > hmm, that almost sounds we have the need for a third wg that will never die; apart from dnsext (protocol), and dnsop (operations), there could be a dnsapp (how to actually *use* dns, not only in apps but also in other protocols, one of the reasons this wg was kept alive before more work was dumped on it) note that I don't think i am a proponent of this approach, but I do think this is not dns protocol work and is out of scope for dnsext. > Alternatively, ask for one (perhaps M. Sury wull suggest that you > should use the one he is setting up.) > Since this thread so far mostly focused on ssl/tls, let me do that for him: there has been a meeting on TLS@DNSSEC at IETF78 and it sounds highly relevant to this discussion, please sign up there if that work is continued :) As far as TLS is concerned, DNSSEC will only give you assurance that the data you get really comes from the source the parent zone delegated it to, not who or what that source actually is. With the way the CA structure has grown, right now TLS gives you assurance that that source controlled the MX record of the domain in question at some point in the past (or the mailserver behind it). If you routinely check the certificate, the issuer, the validation level and the policy for that level, you might have some more information, but that only works for interactive activities and is ignored by most people anyway. So I think DNSSEC can be of big value there, while the market for CA's remains (albeit perhaps a bit smaller). It has been mentioned that this goes beyond TLS, and I agree. So perhaps whatever will come out of Ondrej's initiative should not only be how to use DNSSEC in TLS, but a more general way that protocols or applications handle DNSSEC, with TLS being changed to the first protocol that actually implements that. Jelte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxT/AAACgkQ4nZCKsdOncXvhgCdFTifjA4lMycd80D7Yg0U5M0s DbQAn1KBtdt26KkQq9v2w1ySvUYJicQZ =tzWT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 09:15:33 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90373A6A02; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:15:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sToQ9bz8bHgp; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9343A69FF; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfEar-000Amk-L4 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:07:25 +0000 Received: from [2001:4900:1:392:213:20ff:fe1b:3bfe] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfEap-000AmR-O2 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:07:23 +0000 Received: from [217.194.71.90] (helo=[10.10.160.74]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfEan-000Hof-42; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:07:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-andrews-dnsext-multi-match-label-00 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <201007300944.o6U9iHnI036521@drugs.dv.isc.org> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:07:22 +0200 Cc: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4F591391-AE08-46C6-ACD5-B0FDBA53A43B@hopcount.ca> References: <201007300944.o6U9iHnI036521@drugs.dv.isc.org> To: Mark Andrews X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 217.194.71.90 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Mark, On 2010-07-30, at 11:44, Mark Andrews wrote: > FYI Am I reading this correctly: your idea requires clients to support EDNS1? Joe From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 09:17:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E57723A693F; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:17:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RMDGHmHDY0uv; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6003A6831; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfEeF-000B7H-Ku for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:10:55 +0000 Received: from [2001:4900:1:392:213:20ff:fe1b:3bfe] (helo=monster.hopcount.ca) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfEeD-000B6v-Gc for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:10:53 +0000 Received: from [217.194.71.90] (helo=[10.10.160.74]) by monster.hopcount.ca with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfEdv-000Hwf-0l; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:10:36 +0000 Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Joe Abley In-Reply-To: <4C531B70.8060505@post.harvard.edu> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:10:39 +0200 Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , Francis Dupont , Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <01F2E3C0-94B2-4550-906C-0417B9DD8742@hopcount.ca> References: <20100725213920.GF8017@shinkuro.com> <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> <4C531B70.8060505@post.harvard.edu> To: Federico Lucifredi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 217.194.71.90 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jabley@hopcount.ca X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on monster.hopcount.ca); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 2010-07-30, at 20:35, Federico Lucifredi wrote: > I disagree. The shelving of TSIG/MD5 makes sense on its own (albeit = just > on stack certification grounds - we understand that MD5 is not > compromised in this use). For those whose native language is not English (and even those for whom = it is) could we be more explicit about what precisely we mean by = "shelve" in this thread? In some contexts (and regions) "shelve" means "discard". In other = context (and regions) "shelve" means "defer". The meaning "to furnish or outfit with shelves" seems fairly universal, = so apologies if that's what everybody is talking about. Joe From dnsext-archive@ietf.org Sat Jul 31 09:43:35 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA6B3A6A40 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:43:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char AE hex): From: 003 VIAGRA \256 Official Site [...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.462 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.462 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUG_ED_CAPS=0.322, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HS_INDEX_PARAM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08=1.787, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MANGLED_OFF=2.3, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_FROM_DRUGS=1.666, SARE_UNSUB38D=0.642, SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING=0.001, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AaNbEAzyrzAb for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dslb-088-072-133-041.pools.arcor-ip.net (dslb-088-072-133-041.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.72.133.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 20DAF3A6A1F for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:43:33 -0700 (PDT) From: 003 VIAGRA ® Official Site To: dnsext-archive@ietf.org Subject: dnsext-archive@ietf.org VIAGRA ® Official Site 11% 0FF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20100731164334.20DAF3A6A1F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
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From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 13:15:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52CF3A65A5; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:15:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.693 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.693 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.470, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGv-YoIucMQA; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5F63A657C; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfINT-000Cw4-EP for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:09:51 +0000 Received: from [209.86.89.69] (helo=elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfINQ-000Cve-H8 for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:09:48 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=XLPQKVhmRX92HPW/PUHaflaZBwTQYhPI2y2mAD6ORf+Ujtwu3fALqsNR0ro/c6lB; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.44] (helo=elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OfINE-00032B-O9; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:09:36 -0400 Received: from 99.93.224.206 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:09:36 -0400 Message-ID: <26453365.1280606976734.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:09:36 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Reply-To: "Jeffrey A. Williams" To: Joe Abley , Federico Lucifredi Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , Francis Dupont , Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: c8e3929e1e9c87a874cfc7ce3b1ad11381c87f5e5196068893404187d7c6a750e06614e662f159b4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.44 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Joe and all, For me, 'shelve' = defer. -----Original Message----- >From: Joe Abley >Sent: Jul 31, 2010 11:10 AM >To: Federico Lucifredi >Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , Francis Dupont , Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs > > >On 2010-07-30, at 20:35, Federico Lucifredi wrote: > >> I disagree. The shelving of TSIG/MD5 makes sense on its own (albeit just >> on stack certification grounds - we understand that MD5 is not >> compromised in this use). > >For those whose native language is not English (and even those for whom it is) could we be more explicit about what precisely we mean by "shelve" in this thread? > >In some contexts (and regions) "shelve" means "discard". In other context (and regions) "shelve" means "defer". > >The meaning "to furnish or outfit with shelves" seems fairly universal, so apologies if that's what everybody is talking about. > > >Joe > > Regards, Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders and growing, strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Phone: 214-244-4827 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 14:06:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4253A68AE; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:06:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.772 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.772 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.391, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IzoJsCfraLJr; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB123A684B; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfJBz-000I1s-V7 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:02:03 +0000 Received: from [209.86.89.68] (helo=elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfJBx-000I1W-5g for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:02:01 +0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=kM8lPkzYo1FhvjwmJ+8Z7lWLqiP2yxGev2amzKaxfnktvwcl4VTTWniS+suH8joN; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.44] (helo=elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OfJBu-0004bG-4T; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:01:58 -0400 Received: from 99.93.224.206 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:01:58 -0400 Message-ID: <26299077.1280610118146.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:01:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Reply-To: "Jeffrey A. Williams" To: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, Nicholas Weaver Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , namedroppers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: c8e3929e1e9c87a874cfc7ce3b1ad11381c87f5e5196068862d8e438503e525062c192edc2899280350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.44 Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Bill and all, Your last point is a good one and I for one agree that such is, or may be a problem in some if not many instances. -----Original Message----- >From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com >Sent: Jul 30, 2010 9:21 PM >To: Nicholas Weaver >Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker , namedroppers >Subject: Re: [dnsext] Charter discussion - Use of DNSSEC in applications > >On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:09:55AM -0700, Nicholas Weaver wrote: >> >> 1: There exists only a single path of trust that can produce a compromised certificate (Contrast this with SSL where there are 66! certificates in Firefox, ALL of which are equally trusted!). This is a huge issue when SSL sniffers that rely on a cooperative CA are commercially available. > > > this is patently false. there are at least -two- trust paths. the place > where they converge is only at the root. > > the one thing that worries me is that trust is not transitive, the DNS admin > is generally not the sysadmin of the node in question and so syncronization > between the sysadmin and the DNS admin(s) is an exploitable channel. > >--bill > Regards, Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders and growing, strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Phone: 214-244-4827 From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 15:39:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1CA3A6765; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.571 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.571 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FBYufLbxK-Ay; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33ABA3A6A81; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfKdT-0000K5-F6 for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:34:31 +0000 Received: from [69.17.117.42] (helo=mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfKdQ-0000Jr-RW for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:34:28 +0000 Received: (qmail 24159 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2010 22:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [164.99.130.58]) (federico@[130.57.22.201]) (envelope-sender ) by mail3.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 31 Jul 2010 22:34:27 -0000 Message-ID: <4C54A4EF.7080601@post.harvard.edu> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:34:23 -0400 From: Federico Lucifredi User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Abley CC: Phillip Hallam-Baker , Francis Dupont , Andrew Sullivan , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] Report from chairs References: <20100725213920.GF8017@shinkuro.com> <201007260710.o6Q7AjoB025253@givry.fdupont.fr> <4C531B70.8060505@post.harvard.edu> <01F2E3C0-94B2-4550-906C-0417B9DD8742@hopcount.ca> In-Reply-To: <01F2E3C0-94B2-4550-906C-0417B9DD8742@hopcount.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: Hello Joe, Joe Abley wrote: > On 2010-07-30, at 20:35, Federico Lucifredi wrote: > >> I disagree. The shelving of TSIG/MD5 makes sense on its own (albeit just >> on stack certification grounds - we understand that MD5 is not >> compromised in this use). > > For those whose native language is not English (and even those for whom it is) could we be more explicit about what precisely we mean by "shelve" in this thread? > > In some contexts (and regions) "shelve" means "discard". In other context (and regions) "shelve" means "defer". > > The meaning "to furnish or outfit with shelves" seems fairly universal, so apologies if that's what everybody is talking about. The objective of the draft is to deprecate MD5 as a TSIG HMAC algorithm. So shelve = retire in this context. Best -Federico -- _________________________________________ -- "'Problem' is a bleak word for challenge" - Richard Fish (Federico L. Lucifredi) - lucifred@fas.harvard.edu From owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Sat Jul 31 15:55:50 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-dnsext-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9A63A6958; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:55:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.151 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.151 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.703, BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SpIYxYdQN-mF; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F2D3A6934; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfKv0-00020q-3P for namedroppers-data0@psg.com; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:52:38 +0000 Received: from [200.1.123.8] (helo=mail.nic.cl) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1OfKux-00020W-Dp for namedroppers@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:52:35 +0000 Received: from mail.nic.cl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A79B3CC83BD; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:52:33 -0400 (CLT) Received: from pepino.intra.nic.cl (hsalgado-vpn.intra.nic.cl [172.30.14.17]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2121ACC83BC; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:52:31 -0400 (CLT) Message-ID: <4C54A92E.4020400@nic.cl> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 00:52:30 +0200 From: Hugo Salgado User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.7) Gecko/20100720 Fedora/3.1.1-1.fc13 Thunderbird/3.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Dickson CC: Edward Lewis , namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: [dnsext] an analogy References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP on Sat Jul 31 18:52:33 2010 -0400 (CLT) Sender: owner-namedroppers@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send a message to namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org with List-Unsubscribe: the word 'unsubscribe' in a single line as the message text body. List-Archive: On 07/28/2010 06:58 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: [...] > > Note some very strong parallels in the analogy: > - The card catalog entries give pertinent details about the item, but > most specifically the "catalog number", be it LoC (library of congress) > or Dewey Decimal System. That is the "address", and the organization of > the content within the book is outside of the scope of the card catalog > system. This is very much like the protocol-dependent nature of what is > on a server, found at a given address (in response to looking up a name > in DNS). > - Each entity will have a (likely non-unique) "name", one or more (i.e. > N:1) unique "catalog address(es)", and will also have a unique 1:1 > identifier - the ISBN or ISSN (book or subscription, i.e. periodical, > number). > - What is currently absent from the DNS side of things (and not just > DNS) is the unique identifier. This also impacts IP addressing and > routing, and thusly all of layer 3 and 4. Perhaps the analogous > uniqueness sought is the identity as currently validated through SSL > certificates, and further validated via DNSSEC? > > The catalog is itself a set of sorted entries, where each entry is a > sequence of labels organized in a canonical fashion. > The analogy is that X.Y.Z in DNS, would already be re-organized to "Z, > Y, X" in a card catalog based on significance. > Each label sequence is fully qualified, up to the degree of uniqueness > possible for first-class data. Depending on the subject matter, the > label sequence for books can be quite long.... "Math, Pure, Algebra, > Finite Groups, Abelian, Complex". > And depending on the scope of the library, delegations to other > libraries or departments may be found for many entries: > "Please see the Geophysics Library for books on this subject." > And failure to find the desired entry may be resolved by consulting the > "master catalog", the Library of Congress catalog. > (Kind of like the root, or maybe a cache with root hints and lots of > cached data.) > (NB - the LOC catalog is... a book!) > > In this analogy, BTW, catalog entries that point to books are first > class citizens, as are "delegation-style" entries. The path of > delegations is always expected to be a directed acyclic graph of > reasonable depth. "QV" entries, on the other hand, are not fundamentally > bounded, and are the analog to xNAME entries. And in the libraries you have a thesaurus, where you lookup an identifier, and get the "main entry" (the first class citizen) and all the synonisms. Hugo