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From: Liang qin <leonqin0101@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 14:55:44 -0700
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Subject: [dnssd] Some feedback on draft-tllq-tsr-00 (A 'Time Since Registration' Resource Record for Multicast DNS)
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I have some feedback on draft-tllq-tsr-00
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tllq-tsr/> (A 'Time Since
Registration' Resource Record for Multicast DNS).

I'm working on implementing and unit testing the proposal in this draft, it
works well and fulfills the purpose of this record, it also fits well into
the existing multicast DNS and DNSSD framework.

I have two interesting observations though:

1.The TSR record will conflict with itself and sometimes lose to itself;
Since probe is multicast, prober will receive probe packet from itself and
compare the tsr value with itself, most of the time these two values are
equal, but in some corner case, it will lose to itself, for example:
In our TSR record, tsr value is 1636142582;
In packet record, tsr value is 0(notice that the tsr value in packet is
relative time) which means now;
Then when we get the absolute tsr value for the packet, it can become
1636142583, it may be because the original timestamp is generated very
close to 1636142583 and there is some delay when transmitting the packet.
In this case if we compare the tsr value in our record with the tsr value
in packet sent by ourselves, we will lose.
We probably want to add a `MinTSRInterval` value to make sure prober needs
to be at least `MinTSRInterval` seconds more recent to win in conflict, for
example `MinTSRInterval` can be set to 10 seconds.

2.TSR does not work with auto rename in some implementations;
In some implementations, when auto rename happens, only the name of the
service is changed, other data structures are reused including the TSR
record attached to the name.
This will cause the losing side in conflict to keep renaming because it's
tsr value is not changed.

Since TSR is not designed to work with auto rename, it's the client's
responsibility to make sure auto rename is disabled when the TSR record is
used.

Thanks
-Liang

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I have some feedback on <a href=3D"https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/doc/draft-tllq-tsr/">draft-tllq-tsr-00</a> (A &#39;Time Since Re=
gistration&#39; Resource Record for Multicast DNS).<br></div><div><br></div=
>I&#39;m working on implementing and unit testing the proposal in this draf=
t, it works well and fulfills the purpose of this record, it also fits well=
 into the existing multicast DNS and DNSSD framework.<div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I have two interesting=C2=A0observations though:<br><br>1.The TSR record=
 will conflict with itself and sometimes lose to itself;<br>Since probe is =
multicast, prober will receive probe packet from itself and compare the tsr=
 value with itself, most of the time these two values are equal, but in som=
e corner case, it will lose to itself, for example:<br>In our TSR record, t=
sr value is 1636142582;<br>In packet record, tsr value is 0(notice that the=
 tsr value in packet is relative time) which means now;<br>Then when we get=
 the absolute tsr value for the packet, it can become 1636142583, it may be=
 because the original timestamp is generated very close to 1636142583 and t=
here is some delay when transmitting=C2=A0the packet.<br>In this case if we=
 compare the tsr value in our record with the tsr value in packet sent by o=
urselves, we will lose.<br>We probably want to add a `MinTSRInterval` value=
 to make sure prober needs to be at least `MinTSRInterval` seconds more rec=
ent to win in conflict, for example `MinTSRInterval` can be set to 10 secon=
ds.<br><br>2.TSR does not work with auto rename in some=C2=A0implementation=
s;<br>In some implementations, when auto rename happens, only the name of t=
he service is changed, other data structures are reused including the TSR r=
ecord attached to the name.<br>This will cause the losing side in conflict =
to keep renaming because it&#39;s tsr value is not changed.<br><br>Since TS=
R is not designed to work with auto rename, it&#39;s the client&#39;s respo=
nsibility to make sure auto rename is disabled when the TSR record is used.=
<br></div></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>-Liang</div></div>

--00000000000018dc9d05d011b58d--


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From: Jonathan Hui <jonhui@google.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:55:39 -0800
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To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
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Subject: Re: [dnssd] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt
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Hi Ted,

Thanks for this draft.

Overall, the approach seems reasonable. FWIW, Thread uses similar
mechanisms for other purposes, and it works well.

Few minor comments when reviewing the doc:

Section 1: "Service Replication Protocol (SRP)" -> "Service Registration
Protocol (SRP)"

Section 1: Is it worth mentioning that this mechanism is also helpful even
when the service database is synchronized with SRPL?

Section 7: "It SHOULD NOT be used by regular (non-proxy) mDNS registrants".
We discussed a scenario on the list where a device supporting both Wi-Fi
and Thread could switch between using mDNS and SRP depending on which link
it was attached to. Requiring TSR in this case could help address conflicts
when switching from SRP to mDNS. That said, we also discussed that the
device should just always use SRP.

--
Jonathan Hui



On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 6:11 PM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:

> I've uploaded a new draft for the working group's consideration. This
> solves the problem of what to do when two advertising proxies get updates
> from the same host at two different times. Using normal mDNS conflict
> resolution rules, the older (stale) update wins. This is correct behavior
> for non-proxied mDNS, but obviously incorrect for proxied mDNS. The "Time
> Since Registered" RR provides a way to indicate which mDNS advertisement =
is
> more recent, so that conflict resolution can choose the less stale answer
> rather than the more stale answer.
>
> I'd be curious to hear what people think of this proposal.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 9:06 PM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt
> To: =E7=A7=A6=E8=89=AF <Leonqin0101@gmail.com>, Qin Liang <leonqin0101@gm=
ail.com>, Ted
> Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Ted Lemon and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-tllq-tsr
> Revision:       00
> Title:          A 'Time Since Registration' Resource Record for Multicast
> DNS
> Document date:  2021-10-22
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          7
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tllq-tsr/
> Html:           https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tllq-tsr-00.html
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tllq-tsr
>
>
> Abstract:
>    This document defines a new DNS Resource Record (RR) to be used with
>    multicast DNS.  The new RR is used to communicate the time at which
>    the set of RRsets on a domain name were first registered.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dnssd mailing list
> dnssd@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssd
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Ted,</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for this draf=
t.</div><div><br></div><div>Overall, the approach seems reasonable. FWIW, T=
hread uses similar mechanisms for other purposes, and it works well.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Few minor comments when reviewing the doc:<br></div><div=
><br></div><div>Section 1: &quot;Service Replication Protocol (SRP)&quot; -=
&gt; &quot;Service Registration Protocol (SRP)&quot;</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Section 1: Is it worth mentioning that this mechanism is also helpful ev=
en when the service database is synchronized with SRPL?</div><div><br></div=
><div>Section 7: &quot;It SHOULD NOT be used by regular (non-proxy) mDNS re=
gistrants&quot;. We discussed a scenario=C2=A0on the list where a device su=
pporting both Wi-Fi and Thread could switch between using mDNS and SRP depe=
nding on which link it was attached to. Requiring TSR in this case could he=
lp address conflicts when switching from SRP to mDNS. That said, we also di=
scussed that the device should just always use SRP.</div><div><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div>--</div><div>Jonathan Hui</div><div><br></div></div></div=
></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 6:11 PM Ted Lemon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;=
ve uploaded a new draft for the working group&#39;s consideration. This sol=
ves the problem of what to do when two advertising proxies get updates from=
 the same host at two different times. Using normal mDNS conflict resolutio=
n rules, the older (stale) update wins. This is correct behavior for non-pr=
oxied mDNS, but obviously incorrect for proxied mDNS. The &quot;Time Since =
Registered&quot; RR provides a way to indicate which mDNS advertisement is =
more recent, so that conflict resolution can choose the less stale answer r=
ather than the more stale answer.<div><br></div><div>I&#39;d be curious to =
hear what people think of this proposal.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message --------=
-<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Fri, =
Oct 22, 2021 at 9:06 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tllq=
-tsr-00.txt<br>To: =E7=A7=A6=E8=89=AF &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Leonqin0101@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">Leonqin0101@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Qin Liang &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:leonqin0101@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">leonqin0101@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;, Ted Lemon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">mellon@fugue.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Ted Lemon and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-tllq-tsr<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A &#39;Time Since Registration&#39=
; Resource Record for Multicast DNS<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2021-10-22<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/archive/id/draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tllq-tsr-00.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-tllq-tsr/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tllq-tsr/</a><br>
Html:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/archive/id/draft-tllq-tsr-00.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tllq-tsr-00.html</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-tllq-tsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tllq-tsr</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a new DNS Resource Record (RR) to be use=
d with<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0multicast DNS.=C2=A0 The new RR is used to communicate the tim=
e at which<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the set of RRsets on a domain name were first registered.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:04:49 -0500
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To: Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl>
Cc: dnssd <dnssd@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [dnssd] Review of draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-12
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On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 4:56 AM Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl>
wrote:

> *** Abstract
>
> The abstract text mentions the motivation for DNS-SRP, including details
> about 802.11 and 802.15.4 networks. Now I don=E2=80=99t see this argument=
ation
> (including the details about 802.11/802.15.4 networks) coming back anywhe=
re
> in the draft. Normally (at least according to best practices in paper &
> report writing) an abstract does not introduce new, additional informatio=
n.
> It only recaps or summarizes information from the overall document.  So i=
f
> particular details are like the motivation for DNS-SRP, or particular
> suitable network types (802.11/802.15.4) are mentioned in an abstract the=
y
> must also be mentioned somewhere else in the document e.g. in an
> introduction section.  However I don=E2=80=99t see these items coming bac=
k in the
> main document: the motivation/rationale for SRP is very minimal there.
>

Okay, this makes sense. I didn't manage to understand that from your
previous comment, even though I'm pretty sure that's what you already said.
:)


> *** 2.3.1.1
>
> (See also my separate emails of August 18/19)  I find the text of this
> section very hard to read. But it does not have to be so complex! My idea
> was to define Service Discovery Instruction in a less detailed way and le=
t
> the existing validation requirements of section 2.3.2 do their work to
> =E2=80=9Celiminate=E2=80=9D any bad cases of Service Discovery Instructio=
n.  This avoid the
> intricate definition of interrelations between the Instruction types.
>
>
>
> Here is an alternative proposed text:
>
>
>
> An instruction within an SRP Update is a Service Discovery Instruction if
>
>
>
>    *  it contains exactly one "Add to an RRSet" ([RFC2136], Section 2.5.1
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2136#section-2.5.1>) or exactly
> one "Delete an RR from an RRSet" ([RFC2136], Section 2.5.4
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2136#section-2.5.1>) RR update,
>        o  which updates a PTR type RR,
>        o  the target of which is a Service Instance Name,
>
>        o  where the Service Instance Name is being used in at least one
> other Instruction in this same SRP Update,
>
>    * and it contains no other RR UPDATEs.
>
>
>
> This should work because due to the Section 2.3.2 validation requirements=
,
> first paragraphs, already puts in the needed constraints in a much cleare=
r
> & simpler way.
>
> We could discuss the above proposed text to see if people agree whether i=
t
> is 1) clearer , 2) easier to implement, 3) correct,  or not.
>

No, this wouldn't be correct. The additional constraints you want to remove
are to ensure that if the Service Instruction is an Add, the Service
Description Instruction is also an Add, and if the Service Instruction is a
Delete, the Service Description instruction is also a delete. We could
explain that in 2.3.2, but currently we do not.


> Note also the sentence =E2=80=9Cit contains exactly one "Add to an RRSet"=
 ([RFC2136],
> Section 2.5.1
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2136#section-2.5.1>) or exactly
> one "Delete an RR from an RRSet" ([RFC2136], Section 2.5.4
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2136#section-2.5.1>) RR update,=
=E2=80=9D
>
> which is in general also improving the existing text by pointing to the
> correct section numbers.
>
>
>
> Also note the first sentence =E2=80=9CAn instruction within an SRP Update=
 is a
> Service Discovery Instruction if=E2=80=9D which would be an improvement o=
n existing
> text I think, even if the present text is mostly kept.
>
> (though I hope that won=E2=80=99t be the outcome =E2=80=A6)
>
>
>
> The existing text in -12 has =E2=80=9CDelete RR=E2=80=9D pointing to sect=
ion 2.5.1 which
> is incorrect.
>
>
>
> *** 5 Security Considerations
>
> Given that TLS usage is specified, but that TLS can=E2=80=99t be used for
> authentication as we discussed, should we mention this fact briefly in
> Section 5?
>
> E.g. =E2=80=9Calthough TLS is RECOMMENDED to be used by an SRP client for=
 privacy,
> it does not provide mutual authentication of client and server.=E2=80=9D
>
> The current section 5 only has considerations on the security of the KEY
> RR / SIG(0) mechanism but not related to TLS.
>

That seems like a good idea.


> *** 8.2
>
> *** 8.3
>
> In your prior email you wrote:
>
> > That is confusing. The reason for the trailing dot there is that it's a
> fully-qualified domain name, and such names end in a '.' to indicate the
> root label. But I think it's probably clearer to leave out the dot here.
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m fine with having the dot in there, if it is needed in there (=
I
> wouldn=E2=80=99t know). Sorry for perhaps being not clear in my review em=
ail. The
> point was this:
>
> In the sentence in 8.2 and in 8.3 (former 9.2/9.3) there=E2=80=99s a gram=
mar issue
> ; two sentences are joined together.
>
>
>
>    Availability of DNS Service Discovery Service Registration Protocol
>
>    Service for a given domain is advertised *using the*
>
> *   "_dnssd-srp._tcp.<domain>" SRV record gives the target* host and port
>
>    where DNSSD Service Registration Service is provided for the named
>
>    domain.
>
>
>
> The sentence is similar to =E2=80=9CAvailability of taxi service for a gi=
ven
> neighborhood is advertised using a billboard gives the address where taxi
> service is provided for the neighborhood.=E2=80=9D  Doesn=E2=80=99t read =
too well ;)
>

Right. I again completely failed to understand that from your previous
comment=E2=80=94thanks for clarifying (or re-iterating).


> What about
>
>
>
>    Availability of DNS Service Discovery Service Registration Protocol
>
>    Service for a given domain is advertised using the
>
>    "_dnssd-srp._tcp.<domain>" SRV record*. This record* gives the target
> host and port
>
>    where DNSSD Service Registration Service is provided for the named
>
>    domain *<domain>*.
>
>
>
> And the same fix for Section 8.3
>

That sounds good.

>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:r=
gb(80,0,80)"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 4:56 AM Esko Dijk &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl" target=3D"_blank">esko.dijk=
@iotconsultancy.nl</a>&gt; wrote:</div></span><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><s=
pan class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-l=
eft-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">**=
* Abstract<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The abstract text mentio=
ns the motivation for DNS-SRP, including details about 802.11 and 802.15.4 =
networks. Now I don=E2=80=99t see this argumentation (including the details=
 about 802.11/802.15.4 networks) coming back anywhere in the draft. Normall=
y (at least according to best practices in paper &amp; report writing) an a=
bstract does not introduce new, additional information. It only recaps or s=
ummarizes information from the overall document.=C2=A0 So if particular det=
ails are like the motivation for DNS-SRP, or particular suitable network ty=
pes (802.11/802.15.4) are mentioned in an abstract they must also be mentio=
ned somewhere else in the document e.g. in an introduction section.=C2=A0 H=
owever I don=E2=80=99t see these items coming back in the main document: th=
e motivation/rationale for SRP is very minimal there.</p></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div></span><div>Okay, this makes sense. I didn&#39;t mana=
ge to understand that from your previous comment, even though I&#39;m prett=
y sure that&#39;s what you already said. :)</div><span class=3D"gmail-im" s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-le=
ft-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=
</u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">*** 2.3.1.1<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">(See also my separate emails of August 18/19)=C2=A0 I find the text=
 of this section very hard to read. But it does not have to be so complex! =
My idea was to define Service Discovery Instruction in a less detailed way =
and let the existing validation requirements of section 2.3.2 do their work=
 to =E2=80=9Celiminate=E2=80=9D any bad cases of Service Discovery Instruct=
ion.=C2=A0 This avoid the intricate definition of interrelations between th=
e Instruction types.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is an alternative proposed text:<u></=
u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p style=3D"mar=
gin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck">An instruction within an SRP Update is a Service Discovery Instruction =
if<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;m=
argin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 it contains exactly one &quot;Add=
 to an RRSet&quot; (</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html=
/rfc2136#section-2.5.1" target=3D"_blank">[RFC2136], Section=C2=A02.5.1</a>=
<span style=3D"color:black">) or exactly one &quot;Delete an RR from an RRS=
et&quot; (</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2136#s=
ection-2.5.1" target=3D"_blank">[RFC2136], Section=C2=A02.5.4</a><span styl=
e=3D"color:black">) RR update,<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0o=C2=
=A0 which updates a PTR type RR,<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0o=
=C2=A0 the target of which is a Service Instance Name,<span class=3D"gmail-=
Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"ma=
rgin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0o =C2=A0where the Service In=
stance Name is being used in at least one other Instruction in this same SR=
P Update,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-botto=
m:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 *<span cl=
ass=3D"gmail-Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>and it contains no =
other RR UPDATEs.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">This should work because due to the Section 2=
.3.2 validation requirements, first paragraphs, already puts in the needed =
constraints in a much clearer &amp; simpler way.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">We could discuss the above proposed text to see if people ag=
ree whether it is 1) clearer , 2) easier to implement, 3) correct,=C2=A0 or=
 not.=C2=A0</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>No, this=
 wouldn&#39;t be correct. The additional constraints you want to remove are=
 to ensure that if the Service Instruction is an Add, the Service Descripti=
on Instruction is also an Add, and if the Service Instruction is a Delete, =
the Service Description instruction is also a delete. We could explain that=
 in 2.3.2, but currently we do not.</div><span class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"=
color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style=
:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Note also the sentence =E2=80=9C<span style=3D"font-=
size:12pt;color:black">it contains exactly one &quot;Add to an RRSet&quot; =
(</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/rfc2136#section-2.5.1" target=3D"_blank">[RFC2136], Section=C2=
=A02.5.1</a><span style=3D"color:black">) or exactly one &quot;Delete an RR=
 from an RRSet&quot; (</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht=
ml/rfc2136#section-2.5.1" target=3D"_blank">[RFC2136], Section=C2=A02.5.4</=
a><span style=3D"color:black">) RR update,=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">w=
hich is in general also improving the existing text by pointing to the corr=
ect section numbers.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Also note the fir=
st sentence =E2=80=9CAn instruction within an SRP Update is a Service Disco=
very Instruction if=E2=80=9D which would be an improvement on existing text=
 I think, even if the present text is mostly kept.<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">(though I=
 hope that won=E2=80=99t be the outcome =E2=80=A6)<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t;color:black">The existing text in -12 has =E2=80=9CDelete RR=E2=80=9D poi=
nting to section 2.5.1 which is incorrect.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">*** 5 Securit=
y Considerations<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Given that TLS usa=
ge is specified, but that TLS can=E2=80=99t be used for authentication as w=
e discussed, should we mention this fact briefly in Section 5?<u></u><u></u=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">E.g. =E2=80=9Calthough TLS is RECOMMENDED to be=
 used by an SRP client for privacy, it does not provide mutual authenticati=
on of client and server.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">T=
he current section 5 only has considerations on the security of the KEY RR =
/ SIG(0) mechanism but not related to TLS.</p></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div></span><div>That seems like a good idea.</div><span class=3D"gma=
il-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;b=
order-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">*** 8.2<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">*** 8.3<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In your prior e=
mail you wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; That is confus=
ing. The reason for the trailing dot there is that it&#39;s a fully-qualifi=
ed domain name, and such names end in a &#39;.&#39; to indicate the root la=
bel. But I think it&#39;s probably clearer to leave out the dot here.<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">I=E2=80=99m fine with having the dot in there, if it is needed in th=
ere (I wouldn=E2=80=99t know). Sorry for perhaps being not clear in my revi=
ew email. The point was this:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In th=
e sentence in 8.2 and in 8.3 (former 9.2/9.3) there=E2=80=99s a grammar iss=
ue ; two sentences are joined together.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Availa=
bility of DNS Service Discovery Service Registration Protocol<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Service for a given doma=
in is advertised<span class=3D"gmail-Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b=
>using the<u></u><u></u></b></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 &quot;_dnssd-srp._tcp.&lt;domain&gt;&quot; SRV record gives the targ=
et</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&qu=
ot;;color:black"><span class=3D"gmail-Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>h=
ost and port<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 where DNSSD Service Registration Service is provided for the named<u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 domain.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">The sentence is similar to =E2=80=9CAvailability of taxi servic=
e for a given neighborhood is advertised using a billboard gives the addres=
s where taxi service is provided for the neighborhood.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 Doesn=
=E2=80=99t read too well ;)</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></sp=
an><div>Right. I again completely failed to understand that from your previ=
ous comment=E2=80=94thanks for clarifying (or re-iterating).</div><span cla=
ss=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1p=
x;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>What about</p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Availability of DNS Service Discov=
ery Service Registration Protocol<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;col=
or:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Service for a given domain is advertised using the<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 &quot;_dnssd=
-srp._tcp.&lt;domain&gt;&quot; SRV record<b>. This record</b><span class=3D=
"gmail-Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>gives the target host and port<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 where DNSSD =
Service Registration Service is provided for the named<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;=
Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 domain<span class=3D"gmail-Appl=
e-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><b>&lt;domain&gt;</b>.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">A=
nd the same fix for Section 8.3<span class=3D"gmail-Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>That s=
ounds good.</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-3=
511393297913479416WordSection1">
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000002bae6b05d08a8a89--


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From: Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, dnssd <dnssd@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-dnssd-srp-12
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From: Chris Box <chris.box.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:16:09 +0000
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Subject: [dnssd] Minutes posted
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Hi everyone,

The minutes of last week's meeting are now posted at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/minutes-112-dnssd-00.html
.
Many thanks to Jonathan and Barbara for writing them - they appear to be
concise and easy to read.

If you would like to make any additions or corrections please let me know.

Thanks
Chris

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi everyone,<div><br></div><div>The minut=
es of last week&#39;s meeting are now posted at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/minutes-112-dnssd-00.html">https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/materials/minutes-112-dnssd-00.html</a>.</=
div><div>Many thanks to Jonathan and Barbara for writing them - they appear=
 to be concise and easy to read.</div><div><br></div><div>If you would like=
 to make any additions or corrections please let me know.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Thanks</div><div>Chris</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></d=
iv>

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From: Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl>
To: "dnssd@ietf.org" <dnssd@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dnssd] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-mdns-relay-04.txt
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Subject: Re: [dnssd] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-mdns-relay-04.txt
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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl>, "dnssd@ietf.org" <dnssd@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [dnssd] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dnssd-mdns-relay-04.txt
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:54:54 +0000
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Subject: [dnssd] Review of draft-sctl-advertising-proxy-02
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