From nobody Mon Oct 1 05:58:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01171130E81; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 05:57:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Roman Danyliw To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.84.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: rdd@cert.org, dots-chairs@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org, Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <153839867699.10121.4848460663750945962.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 05:57:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-22 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 12:58:07 -0000 Roman Danyliw has requested publication of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-22 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the DOTS working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel/ From nobody Sat Oct 6 12:45:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950E2130DEF for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 12:45:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jNrkBi1-xio for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from taper.sei.cmu.edu (taper.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D66F5130DED for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 12:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korb.sei.cmu.edu (korb.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.30]) by taper.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w96JjOxI015551 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 15:45:24 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 taper.sei.cmu.edu w96JjOxI015551 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1538855124; bh=7lwlmlxc72p/XIxWgPOGdk0AYtdaljrsB2aaTGoqhp8=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=Lbx429u4ChlqsPdUz1XsoRcDI5Mo8dIvW0wv83l+xX6SJUv9vQFvk5i791CnlUqjC wdFgR7ychjh4S/6jtEan4HHVNqTr+oqmT4qTTO5pRIXR6L+Rtqfko1D1RlgMKzNG9V 97K+MNqwzTWkXhGuTl2qhzpz45mKDi3XiALQhu5c= Received: from CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cassina.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.249]) by korb.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w96JjJ9Z001184 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 15:45:19 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.249]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 15:45:19 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? Thread-Index: AdRdqvQVTtrWA4LmQ0mlR3KJG9bKUA== Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 19:45:18 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 19:45:28 -0000 Hello WG! We've been making good progress on our milestones in recent months. A summ= ary of our current situation is as follows: ** draft-ietf-dots-data-channel -- submitted for publication ** draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel -- submitted for publication ** draft-ietf-dots-requirements -- submitted for publication ** draft-ietf-dots-architecture -- ready for publication; shepherd write-up= blocked by need for IPR statements. See https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive= /web/dots/current/msg02707.html ** draft-ietf-dots-use-cases -- no open issues; awaiting draft update to is= sue WGLC With IETF 103 coming the next month, we need to begin planning next steps (= if any) for the WG group beyond our current milestones and how to use this = meeting time (if needed). To that end: ** If you would like time on the agenda at IETF 103, please let the chairs = know =20 ** If you have thoughts on additional work for the WG please share your thi= nking Roman From nobody Mon Oct 8 00:05:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984F61293FB for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 00:05:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08ia-MvmKKJR for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 00:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FD00128B14 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 00:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42TBFw5vNdz4wf0; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:05:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.17]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42TBFw4wJ2zDq7F; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:05:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a1e6:3e6a:1f68:5f7e%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 09:05:24 +0200 From: To: Roman Danyliw , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? Thread-Index: AdRdqvQVTtrWA4LmQ0mlR3KJG9bKUABKFTDA Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:05:23 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFECC1B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> In-Reply-To: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 07:05:29 -0000 Hi Roman, all, Now that we advanced core DOTS specifications, I do think it is time to rev= ive the discussion we had on multihoming and discovery. I'd like to ask the= WG to consider adding new milestones with these two I-Ds as starting point= s:=20 * https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-05=20 * https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-multihoming-04=20 FWIW, some pointers to presentations I made in previous IETF meetings are a= vailable at:=20 * https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/materials/slides-99-dots-architec= ture-multihoming-draft-boucadair-dots-multihoming-00=20 * https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dots-draft-= boucadair-dots-server-discovery-01=20 Thank you.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Roman Danyliw > Envoy=E9=A0: samedi 6 octobre 2018 21:45 > =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps= ? >=20 > Hello WG! >=20 > We've been making good progress on our milestones in recent months. A > summary of our current situation is as follows: >=20 > ** draft-ietf-dots-data-channel -- submitted for publication > ** draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel -- submitted for publication > ** draft-ietf-dots-requirements -- submitted for publication > ** draft-ietf-dots-architecture -- ready for publication; shepherd write-= up > blocked by need for IPR statements. See https://www.ietf.org/mail- > archive/web/dots/current/msg02707.html > ** draft-ietf-dots-use-cases -- no open issues; awaiting draft update to > issue WGLC >=20 > With IETF 103 coming the next month, we need to begin planning next steps= (if > any) for the WG group beyond our current milestones and how to use this > meeting time (if needed). To that end: >=20 > ** If you would like time on the agenda at IETF 103, please let the chair= s > know > ** If you have thoughts on additional work for the WG please share your > thinking >=20 > Roman >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Oct 8 13:06:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F56F130FCF for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 13:06:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 47M1wE3Kp1Zi for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 13:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from taper.sei.cmu.edu (taper.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B118130F67 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 13:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korb.sei.cmu.edu (korb.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.30]) by taper.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w98K6ZII008996; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 16:06:35 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 taper.sei.cmu.edu w98K6ZII008996 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1539029195; bh=91TTZLTMA1ShrOgecXfVSyna3pd5Jxja45zq/MbuR9I=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=NDsxRKfSZG5Dsh/VfnBuRdwFbLvf+poUfc7UrGPKYDyWRo7Nl/2BN48IDmvXHe046 vD/FlI0yVjqLph9e7sw6Hk91C0I7Ju69QX7ufvgtrUl3nw9b+F4MNTGgce9YfnP1K2 wYUARmmAu5TY1G6uyHqOsh/KgrOs63KDt3hbhHv8= Received: from CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cassina.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.249]) by korb.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w98K6WNQ011226; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 16:06:32 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.249]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 16:06:32 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? Thread-Index: AdRdqvQVTtrWA4LmQ0mlR3KJG9bKUABKFTDAABu/75A= Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 20:06:31 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C463CBE@marathon> References: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFECC1B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFECC1B@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 20:06:38 -0000 Hi Med! We can definitely put a marker in the IETF 103 agenda for this topic. It w= ould also be helpful to hear from the WG on this topic too. Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 3:05 AM > To: Roman Danyliw ; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next > steps? >=20 > Hi Roman, all, >=20 > Now that we advanced core DOTS specifications, I do think it is time to > revive the discussion we had on multihoming and discovery. I'd like to as= k > the WG to consider adding new milestones with these two I-Ds as starting > points: >=20 > * https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-05 > * https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-dots-multihoming-04 >=20 > FWIW, some pointers to presentations I made in previous IETF meetings are > available at: >=20 > * https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/materials/slides-99-dots- > architecture-multihoming-draft-boucadair-dots-multihoming-00 > * https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-dots-draf= t- > boucadair-dots-server-discovery-01 >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Roman Danyliw > > Envoy=E9=A0: samedi 6 octobre 2018 21:45 =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org Objet=A0= : [Dots] > > WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? > > > > Hello WG! > > > > We've been making good progress on our milestones in recent months. A > > summary of our current situation is as follows: > > > > ** draft-ietf-dots-data-channel -- submitted for publication > > ** draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel -- submitted for publication > > ** draft-ietf-dots-requirements -- submitted for publication > > ** draft-ietf-dots-architecture -- ready for publication; shepherd > > write-up blocked by need for IPR statements. See > > https://www.ietf.org/mail- archive/web/dots/current/msg02707.html > > ** draft-ietf-dots-use-cases -- no open issues; awaiting draft update > > to issue WGLC > > > > With IETF 103 coming the next month, we need to begin planning next > > steps (if > > any) for the WG group beyond our current milestones and how to use > > this meeting time (if needed). To that end: > > > > ** If you would like time on the agenda at IETF 103, please let the > > chairs know > > ** If you have thoughts on additional work for the WG please share > > your thinking > > > > Roman > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Oct 9 20:46:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59C4130E5F for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 20:46:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q6MHmfMBr8mN for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 20:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.148]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C764130E17 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2018 20:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.86.154]) by tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w9A3kCNJ013264 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:46:12 +0900 Received: from vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF412638996 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:46:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp (jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.87.134]) by vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42E2638990 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:46:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [129.60.13.46]) by jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9EEAA400321 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:46:12 +0900 (JST) References: From: Yuhei Hayashi Message-ID: <235e69aa-0b74-349c-3d53-7b47190e0da8@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:58 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CC-Mail-RelayStamp: 1 To: dots@ietf.org X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Dots Digest, Vol 44, Issue 2 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 03:46:22 -0000 Hi Roman, all, I'm writing a draft about our intra-domain DDoS Orchestration usecase and YANG module expansion in signal channel, which I made presentation at IETF 102. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-dots-poc-report-on-the-intra-domain-orchestration-use-case-01 I would like time on agenda at IETF 103, and would like to discuss the draft. Yuhei On 2018/10/08 4:00, dots-request@ietf.org wrote: > Send Dots mailing list submissions to > dots@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > dots-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > dots-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Dots digest..." > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? > (Roman Danyliw) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > ----------------------------------------- Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation Network Service Systems Laboratories Transport Service Platform Innovation Project Transport Service Systems Development Project Yuhei Hayashi 0422-59-3485 hayashi.yuhei@lab.ntt.co.jp From nobody Sun Oct 14 18:59:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A76612D4ED for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k3dniqd_kEZx for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0006112D4EB for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [192.168.8.15]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 8863225F6A1; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:59:30 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1539568770; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jHC7XwGbxl7r+XywepjyyJEv42dbypWlwFESHH1XTT0=; b=WLhjrkjrXiEBiOKqZgmhTNvPTFs7Utqmgqwo7ARD1hoel6/UQJn3tSRw13FVcS49K+Mj3Q 8/gfGeR+DvJKz2GjV5Wg70rLKd1iaaFhRUqw+pwtAdPbwB3+HL989XGoyxjiB4WO73RUFf RHxb9S48jiYJVTBsxjYxqGud3KEeNuA= Received: from MacBook-Pro-17.lv4.nttv6.jp (fujiko.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 8020D75900A; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:59:30 +0900 (JST) To: Roman Danyliw , "dots@ietf.org" References: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <24b42c64-60d5-f23e-bb26-f0a6694eb158@nttv6.jp> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:59:30 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 01:59:35 -0000 Hi Roman, I and Jon are planning to do the next interoperability testing based on the latest draft. We'd like time on the agenda about the result of the test. thanks, Kaname On 2018/10/07 4:45, Roman Danyliw wrote: > Hello WG! > > We've been making good progress on our milestones in recent months. A summary of our current situation is as follows: > > ** draft-ietf-dots-data-channel -- submitted for publication > ** draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel -- submitted for publication > ** draft-ietf-dots-requirements -- submitted for publication > ** draft-ietf-dots-architecture -- ready for publication; shepherd write-up blocked by need for IPR statements. See https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dots/current/msg02707.html > ** draft-ietf-dots-use-cases -- no open issues; awaiting draft update to issue WGLC > > With IETF 103 coming the next month, we need to begin planning next steps (if any) for the WG group beyond our current milestones and how to use this meeting time (if needed). To that end: > > ** If you would like time on the agenda at IETF 103, please let the chairs know > ** If you have thoughts on additional work for the WG please share your thinking > > Roman > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Oct 15 05:37:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7530E130E4D for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 05:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n3sZNsD52P_z for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veto.sei.cmu.edu (veto.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52618130E4A for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from korb.sei.cmu.edu (korb.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.30]) by veto.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w9FCb5e5006789; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:37:05 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 veto.sei.cmu.edu w9FCb5e5006789 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1539607026; bh=YxJ1dp2bkVFzQKyNSeSXqzrGsMG8B2cgWFHTmfkkZCM=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=e+kZgOkMCcoIlNQVIXXM/kgEGVKGkiHBfBBZI11tNUR3nt6PvePFzcpvunXizy9KU Y3IFrOzJjGVfF34xr8fwI1eIC1XSsyInm7trZ4iHED7JKmnZ9y19c7nbeoFgkY6K6a O2NCt82JsxiZ7u6DL3cSx4WDl4klcaVjwaIPcKBY= Received: from CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cassina.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.249]) by korb.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w9FCb2WQ010788; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:37:03 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.249]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 08:37:02 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? Thread-Index: AdRdqvQVTtrWA4LmQ0mlR3KJG9bKUAGoUioAAA3c1EA= Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:37:01 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C46996C@marathon> References: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC014C461612@marathon> <24b42c64-60d5-f23e-bb26-f0a6694eb158@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <24b42c64-60d5-f23e-bb26-f0a6694eb158@nttv6.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next steps? X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:37:12 -0000 Great news! I'll put a marker for this topic on the agenda. Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of kaname nishizuka > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM > To: Roman Danyliw ; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] WG document summary, IETF 103 call agenda, WG next > steps? >=20 > Hi Roman, >=20 > I and Jon are planning to do the next interoperability testing based on t= he > latest draft. > We'd like time on the agenda about the result of the test. >=20 > thanks, > Kaname >=20 >=20 > On 2018/10/07 4:45, Roman Danyliw wrote: > > Hello WG! > > > > We've been making good progress on our milestones in recent months. A > summary of our current situation is as follows: > > > > ** draft-ietf-dots-data-channel -- submitted for publication > > ** draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel -- submitted for publication > > ** draft-ietf-dots-requirements -- submitted for publication > > ** draft-ietf-dots-architecture -- ready for publication; shepherd writ= e-up > blocked by need for IPR statements. See https://www.ietf.org/mail- > archive/web/dots/current/msg02707.html > > ** draft-ietf-dots-use-cases -- no open issues; awaiting draft update t= o > issue WGLC > > > > With IETF 103 coming the next month, we need to begin planning next > steps (if any) for the WG group beyond our current milestones and how to > use this meeting time (if needed). To that end: > > > > ** If you would like time on the agenda at IETF 103, please let the cha= irs > know > > ** If you have thoughts on additional work for the WG please share your > thinking > > > > Roman > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Oct 15 05:56:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B399D130DD3; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 05:56:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vN6wU6YAHZWb; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 05:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF933130E4D; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 05:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42Ydjs0GTrz5vvv; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:56:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42Ydjr6KPqzDq7h; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:56:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::4bd:9b2b:3651:6fba%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:56:32 +0200 From: To: "draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion Thread-Index: AdRkhn3fTzsL8oF2SIKNEY9QYZOeig== Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:56:32 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFF246C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFF246COPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:56:40 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFF246COPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear authors, FWIW, you may find some comments to this draft at: * doc version: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw= /master/draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion-00-rev%20Med.doc * pdf version: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/blo= b/master/draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion-00-rev%20Med.pdf There might be some commonalities with the call-home extension we are curre= ntly working on, and for which a source clause is required. It would be int= eresting to check if both use cases can be met with the same extension. Cheers, Med --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFF246COPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear authors,

 

FWIW, you may find some comments to this dr= aft at:

 

·         doc version: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-h-dots-mi= tigation-offload-expansion-00-rev%20Med.doc

·         pdf version: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/blob/master/draft-h-dots-m= itigation-offload-expansion-00-rev%20Med.pdf

 

There might be some commonalities with the = call-home extension we are currently working on, and for which a source cla= use is required. It would be interesting to check if both use cases can be met with the same extension.

 

Cheers,

Med

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302DFF246COPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Tue Oct 16 10:49:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15136130E1C; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:49:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DzMldqmPp_00; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.9.25.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3DAF124C04; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1209190f-a89ff70000003872-5a-5bc624b18557 Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id E7.09.14450.1B426CB5; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w9GHnXbJ030736; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:49:34 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9GHnTlV002136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:49:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:49:29 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: draft-ietf-dots-requirements.all@ietf.org Cc: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181016174929.GS19309@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20181008145601.GL56675@kduck.kaduk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181008145601.GL56675@kduck.kaduk.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nortJ5Vi0wbHrKhZr3xxhtbh9bS2z A5PHkiU/mQIYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgy/p3gKLjYw1jR1LSOsYGxOaeLkZNDQsBE4vbrF2xd jFwcQgKLmSQ+X73BDpIQEtjIKDF1NR9E4iqTxL8HDawgCRYBVYkd96aDFbEJqEg0dF9mBrFF BHQlTnzYzARiMwsISmzYNA2sRljAUmLV3y9gcV6gbSv3nmKCWGAisf7gJai4oMTJmU9YIHq1 JG78ewkU5wCypSWW/+MACXMKmErcO3oXrERUQFlib98h9gmMArOQdM9C0j0LoXsBI/MqRtmU 3Crd3MTMnOLUZN3i5MS8vNQiXRO93MwSvdSU0k2MoNDklOTfwTinwfsQowAHoxIPr4DksWgh 1sSy4srcQ4ySHExKoryZUkAhvqT8lMqMxOKM+KLSnNTiQ4wSHMxKIrzpl45GC/GmJFZWpRbl w6SkOViUxHkntCyOFhJITyxJzU5NLUgtgsnKcHAoSfA2KQMNFSxKTU+tSMvMKUFIM3Fwggzn ARquD1LDW1yQmFucmQ6RP8VoybHtTOcMZo62p9eBZAeIFGLJy89LlRLnfQLSIADSkFGaBzcT lGoksvfXvGIUB3pRmHcpSBUPME3BTX0FtJAJaKG77RGQhSWJCCmpBkbbNPdV/R8qxZrLtjZp KO77vmGe1UFFtVe+85/Fl4Yrb/y5ska77J7U+9cZ2Z72VZ4Xd4buXmUj8Wp9veYiTu1F32s7 AnvXhxd1JU3NvF7frN24yGHLQw+ZbTLHdD7afb/y98QRjn0eGyJ+RS3i/XbD8/kmqe3z9k/7 mxZWb+2QkbF7o8XWj3+UWIozEg21mIuKEwHU/YDREAMAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] AD review of draft-ietf-dots-requirements-15 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:49:43 -0000 I had intended to cc the WG list on this; sorry I missed it at the time. Andrew, do you expect to be able to prepare an update? Thanks, Ben On Mon, Oct 08, 2018 at 09:56:01AM -0500, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks for the fine document, and sorry for the processing delay -- the > timing interacted poorly with my travel schedule. > > I just have some editorial notes that it would be nice to fix before we send > this out for broader review; I'll list them section-by-section. > > Section 1.1 > > A standardized method to coordinate a real-time response among > involved operators will increase the speed and effectiveness of DDoS > attack mitigation, and reduce the impact of these attacks. This > document describes the required characteristics of protocols that > enable attack coordination and mitigation of DDoS attacks. > > "protocols that enable attack coordination" can be read as if we are > generating DDoS attacks, which is probably not the intention. > > Section 1.2 > > RFC 8174 has updated BCP 14 boilerplate; proactively changing to use it > will save lots of reviewers from pointing this out. > > Mitigator: An entity, typically a network element, capable of > performing mitigation of a detected or reported DDoS attack. The > means by which this entity performs these mitigations and how they > are requested of it are out of scope. The mitigator and DOTS > server receiving a mitigation request are assumed to belong to the > same administrative entity. > > It may be best to avoid an unqualified "out of scope" and be clear about if > it's out of scope for this document, for the WG, etc. > > DOTS signal: A concise authenticated status/control message > transmitted over the signal channel between DOTS agents, used to > indicate the client's need for mitigation, as well as to convey > the status of any requested mitigation. > > Is the message itself authenticated in addition to the authentication > provided by the signal channel? It might be confusing to mention > authentication in both places if it's just the channel providing > authentication. > > Also, I would suggest to s/as well as/or/, since (presumably) a single > message can do just one or the other. > > Data channel: A bidirectional, mutually authentication communication > channel between two DOTS agents used for infrequent but reliable > bulk exchange of data not easily or appropriately communicated > through the signal channel under attack conditions. > > This definition left me wondering whether the data channel is supposed to > function during attack conditions (i.e., if the attack condition rendered > the signal channel unusable for this purpose, so the data channel was > created to still work under attack conditions). The rest of the document > seems to clarify that the data channel is not expected to be useful during > attack conditions, so perhaps this could be clarified here. > > Blacklist: A list of filters indicating sources from which traffic > should be blocked, regardless of traffic content. > > Whitelist: A list of filters indicating sources from which traffic > should always be allowed, regardless of contradictory data gleaned > in a detected attack. > > I note without further comment that there was recently a long thread on > ietf@ietf.org about potentially offensive terminology, which included both > of these words as examples. > > Section 2 > > The DOTS protocol must at a minimum make it possible for a DOTS > client to request aid mounting a defense, coordinated by a DOTS > server, against a suspected attack, signaling within or between > domains as requested by local operators. [...] > > This sentence has a lot of commas that breaks up the flow trying to read > it. It could perhaps be split into two, as > > % The DOTS protocol must at a minimum make it possible for a DOTS > % client to request aid mounting a defense against a suspected attack. > % This defense could be coordinated by a DOTS server and include signaling > % within or between domains as requested by local operators. > > [...] > clients need to justify withdrawing help requests: the decision is > local to the DOTS clients' domain. Multi-homed DOTS clients must be > able to select the appropriate DOTS server(s) to which a mitigation > request is to be sent. The method for selecting the appropriate DOTS > server in a multi-homed environment is out of scope. > > (same comment about "out of scope"). > > DOTS protocol implementations face competing operational goals when > maintaining this bidirectional communication stream. On the one > hand, DOTS must include protections ensuring message confidentiality, > integrity and authenticity to keep the protocols from becoming > additional vectors for the very attacks it is meant to help fight > off. [...] > > It's probably worth including freshness/replay protection in this list. > > Section 2.1 > > GEN-001 Extensibility: Protocols and data models developed as part > of DOTS MUST be extensible in order to keep DOTS adaptable to > operational and proprietary DDoS defenses. Future extensions MUST > be backward compatible. DOTS protocols MUST use a version number > system to distinguish protocol revisions. Implementations of > older protocol versions SHOULD ignore information added to DOTS > messages as part of newer protocol versions. > > No change specifically needed, but I'll note that using a version number > mostly precludes using individual per-feature tags to indicate feature > support. It's okay for a WG to be making such a design choice at this > point in the process; I'm just pointing out that it is something of a > design choice. > > GEN-002 Resilience and Robustness: The signaling protocol MUST be > designed to maximize the probability of signal delivery even under > the severely constrained network conditions caused by particular > attack traffic. [...] > > The word choice "particular" makes it sound as if there is a specific > attack that the author has in mind, leaving the reader wondering what > attack that is. It may be better to just remove the word entirely or give > some description of what attack type(s) are relevant. > > GEN-003 Bulk Data Exchange: Infrequent bulk data exchange between > DOTS agents can also significantly augment attack response > coordination, permitting such tasks as population of black- or > white-listed source addresses; address or prefix group aliasing; > exchange of incident reports; and other hinting or configuration > supplementing attack response. > > As the resilience requirements for the DOTS signal channel mandate > small signal message size, a separate, secure data channel > utilizing a reliable transport protocol MUST be used for bulk data > exchange. > > (This could potentially also clarify if it's expected to be useful during > attack conditions.) > > GEN-004 Mitigation Hinting: DOTS clients may have access to attack > details which can be used to inform mitigation techniques. > Example attack details might include locally collected > fingerprints for an on-going attack, or anticipated or active > attack focal points based on other threat intelligence. DOTS > clients MAY send mitigation hints derived from attack details to > DOTS servers, in the full understanding that the DOTS server MAY > ignore mitigation hints. Mitigation hints MAY be transmitted > across either signal or data channel. [...] > > My colleagues on the IESG tend to ask questions when there are multiple > options permitted but no discussion of why one might prefer one option or > the other. (That is, they prefer a single mandatory option for reasons of > protocol simplicity.) > > Section 2.2 > > SIG-002 Sub-MTU Message Size: To avoid message fragmentation and the > consequently decreased probability of message delivery over a > congested link, signaling protocol message size MUST be kept under > signaling Path Maximum Transmission Unit (PMTU), including the > byte overhead of any encapsulation, transport headers, and > transport- or message-level security. > DOTS agents SHOULD attempt to learn the PMTU through mechanisms > such as Path MTU Discovery [RFC1191] or Packetization Layer Path > MTU Discovery [RFC4821]. If the PMTU cannot be discovered, DOTS > agents SHOULD assume a PMTU of 1280 bytes. If IPv4 support on > legacy or otherwise unusual networks is a consideration and PMTU > nit: "the PMTU" > is unknown, DOTS implementations MAY rely on a PMTU of 576 bytes, > as discussed in [RFC0791] and [RFC1122]. > > SIG-003 Bidirectionality: To support peer health detection, to > maintain an active signal channel, and increase the probability of > nit: "to increase" > signal delivery during an attack, the signal channel MUST be > bidirectional, with client and server transmitting signals to each > other at regular intervals, regardless of any client request for > mitigation. Unidirectional messages MUST be supported within the > bidirectional signal channel to allow for unsolicited message > delivery, enabling asynchronous notifications between DOTS agents. > > This sentence about unidirectional messages left me a bit confused on first > read, I think just because of the way it was phrased. It's basically just > saying that the signal channel is not necessarily request/reply pairs, but > can include oneshot notification messages that don't get an > application-level reply (but could still get a transport-level ack), right? > I don't have any specific text suggestions here, and it's probably okay to > leave it as-is. (I have no particular reason to think that other people > get confused in the same ways that I do, after all.) > > SIG-005 Channel Redirection: In order to increase DOTS operational > flexibility and scalability, DOTS servers SHOULD be able to > redirect DOTS clients to another DOTS server at any time. DOTS > clients MUST NOT assume the redirection target DOTS server shares > security state with the redirecting DOTS server. DOTS clients are > free to attempt abbreviated security negotiation methods supported > by the protocol, such as DTLS session resumption, but MUST be > prepared to negotiate new security state with the redirection > target DOTS server. > > When redirection occurs, is it always within the same "authentication > domain"? There are perhaps additional complications about authenticating > the two servers and the redirection action if they are managed by different > entities or the client will be using different credentials with them. > > SIG-006 Mitigation Requests and Status: Authorized DOTS clients MUST > [...] > The initial active-but-terminating period is implementation- and > deployment- specific, but SHOULD be sufficiently long to absorb > latency incurred by route propagation. If the client requests > mitigation again before the initial active-but-terminating period > > Just to check my understanding: this new mitigation request serves only to > extend the current termination period, and so the client would have to make > yet another mitigation request after mitigation terminates? > > elapses, the DOTS server MAY exponentially increase the active- > but-terminating period up to a maximum of 300 seconds (5 minutes). > > "exponentially" requires specifying an exponent base -- is the period > doubling each request, increasing by a factor of 1.5, ...? > > After the active-but-terminating period elapses, the DOTS server > MUST treat the mitigation as terminated, as the DOTS client is no > longer responsible for the mitigation. > > > SIG-008 Mitigation Scope: DOTS clients MUST indicate desired > mitigation scope. The scope type will vary depending on the > resources requiring mitigation. All DOTS agent implementations > MUST support the following required scope types: > > * IPv4 prefixes in CIDR notation [RFC4632] > > I don't see why CIDR notation comes into play for the protocol itself; why > not just say "IPv4 prefixes" to match the "IPv6 prefixes" below? > > If there is additional information available narrowing the scope > of any requested attack response, such as targeted port range, > protocol, or service, DOTS clients SHOULD include that information > in client mitigation requests. DOTS clients MAY also include > additional attack details. DOTS servers MAY ignore such > supplemental information when enabling countermeasures on the > mitigator. > > Is it implicit from this that the signal channel needs to provide some way > in which to convey this sort of structured data that makes the semantics > clear (as opposed to, say, implementation-defined)? > > Section 2.3 > > DATA-002 Data privacy and integrity: Transmissions over the data > channel are likely to contain operationally or privacy-sensitive > information or instructions from the remote DOTS agent. Theft or > modification of data channel transmissions could lead to > information leaks or malicious transactions on behalf of the > sending agent (see Section 4 below). Consequently data sent over > > It may be worth mentioning the risk of replay explicitly. > > the data channel MUST be encrypted and authenticated using current > IETF best practices. DOTS servers MUST enable means to prevent > > Do we need to provide an extensible model or negotiation scheme for the > encryption/authentication algorithms, so that implementations can adapt as > best practices change? > > leaking operationally or privacy-sensitive data. Although > administrative entities participating in DOTS may detail what data > may be revealed to third-party DOTS agents, such considerations > are not in scope for this document. > > DATA-003 Resource Configuration: To help meet the general and signal > channel requirements in Section 2.1 and Section 2.2, DOTS server > implementations MUST provide an interface to configure resource > identifiers, as described in SIG-007. [...] > > I think this is SIG-008, not SIG-007. > > Section 2.4 > > SEC-001 Peer Mutual Authentication: DOTS agents MUST authenticate > each other before a DOTS signal or data channel is considered > valid. The method of authentication is not specified, but should > follow current industry best practices with respect to any > cryptographic mechanisms to authenticate the remote peer. > > Authentication is great. What model is used for making authorization > decisions? > > SEC-002 Message Confidentiality, Integrity and Authenticity: DOTS > [...] > In order for DOTS protocols to remain secure despite advancements > in cryptanalysis and traffic analysis, DOTS agents MUST be able to > negotiate the terms and mechanisms of protocol security, subject > to the interoperability and signal message size requirements in > Section 2.2. > > I'd probably say "securely negotiate" just to avoid any questions. > > SEC-004 Authorization: DOTS servers MUST authorize all messages from > DOTS clients which pertain to mitigation, configuration, > filtering, or status. > > Are there any message types left (that would not need authorization)? > > Section 2.5 > > DM-004 Mitigation Scope Representation: The data model MUST support > representation of a requested mitigation's scope. As mitigation > scope may be represented in several different ways, per SIG-007 > above, the data model MUST be capable of flexible representation > of mitigation scope. > > Is "flexible" intended to encompass a generic extensibility to represent > new types of data and new semantics? > > DM-007 Acceptable Signal Loss Representation: The data model MUST be > able to represent the DOTS agent's preference for acceptable > signal loss when establishing a signal channel, as described in > GEN-002. > > Is this prefernce expressed as a threshold percentage of packet loss, a > timeout for keepalive messages, some other way, or we don't care? > > Section 4 > > Impersonation of either DOTS server or DOTS client could have > > nit: "a DOTS server", "a DOTS client" > > Blocking communication between DOTS agents has the potential to > disrupt the core function of DOTS, which is to request mitigation of > active or expected DDoS attacks. The DOTS signal channel is expected > to operate over congested inbound links, and, as described in > Section 2.2, the signal channel protocol must be designed for minimal > data transfer to reduce the incidence of signal blocking. > > "signal blocking" makes me think of an explicit firewall-like > functionality, whereas I think the threat here is more of an accidental > dropping of packets due to congestion and network elmeent overload. > > > > Hopefully we can get a new rev out quickly and then I can request the IETF > Last Call! > > Thanks to everyone for the good work that went into this document. > > -Ben > From nobody Tue Oct 16 21:56:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA11128CE4 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:56:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iBMAUtPsmnH7 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it1-x133.google.com (mail-it1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0E5F128CFD for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it1-x133.google.com with SMTP id c85-v6so972528itd.1 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:56:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=d6uoP6aVG3fQrlp+bkQcobG4mWwdUQcD91ESNUfWTl0=; b=BPQK85mRn10ogbHUHSDyldgD459TkuGilamJUOBtyF9YzQ83wv09uc9sKRGjoK6ZJ4 GlC+A+iVviZNE0qfrnoqCQd7ZfEOTUjXxhM5R8q8+k6Lw/dKT/pZT2jE99Wwr/YXJn8a 9xqQGvKcqcc6VaRfFTY+7SUFkVeDJUxt/+TToMCOZx/YcFAHawKNo3UoJ1dvh2yNXmwZ ug7OtNTMoZyEYEYXMEBTQCJKJlIBFZPU9mXrMtdUykm++9LC5jmMDjAgxPUOV1ykT7Ri rpQ0srkcnJnfEWzf7JXROHX/5026aHEzHev4Y15Plr3YLv3O0jBVsJFYkgwqXhRwv2Ap 839g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=d6uoP6aVG3fQrlp+bkQcobG4mWwdUQcD91ESNUfWTl0=; b=T/tBO88RxDLURdT0uTY2RoycjuJGwT8qA8vG2cdtD1QiReq/c68PRKJT7Gynf2x32V JP9rtldLFU33u4GQvP9O/o65T59hQv4kyFA18/RGfqzGjf4dVJAixyE+9SINhHeZ//JG ymLz9Y9dvbStbCDBH3clD9Y6Yh2Fod+1XpAw8fvE5TyQ8nlnNRi5ev5MzHn9Uh8zuczq +04Mip8oz4xhj029V1v5NwRcXMAE4czx9MJy145SHUBzB0d5BdRpE9LCQuLs4AwwTx0H /yvXyWwLb/wVFuJg+cNh9OUqnJSuO6rOzNCqbBw/LwkxUjG2RYKJUSeXtHqwYgCJarzx MQKw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojmfJzdhYLT0DOX/zxujr0pNLU0481U9lspILoQnuEvKUrVHbWB F3TIMLv41N/DsS2YZ9i20mIvLM4/Dc6tE+UTsvavtubX X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60b66cZicYdgW08nSH6TWfDg7t2Cr72ttD6+l02oJRUhYKqbIb3vfn1jphaTwJLRdnYsrVIYigRFTQcF0LXWKE= X-Received: by 2002:a02:55c1:: with SMTP id e184-v6mr18816961jab.35.1539752179763; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:56:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <153975066078.9441.6137080410530428738.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153975066078.9441.6137080410530428738.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: tirumal reddy Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 10:24:29 +0530 Message-ID: To: dots@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b7916e0578657dad" Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 04:56:26 -0000 --000000000000b7916e0578657dad Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, This draft https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00 discusses co-operative DDoS mitigation between the subscribers (e.g. Home networks) and ISP using DOTS signal channel Call Home service to the suppress the outbound DDoS attack traffic originating from the home network. It enables a DOTS server in the home network to initiate a secure connection to a DOTS client in the ISP, and the DOTS client conveys the attack traffic information to the DOTS server. The DOTS server uses the attack traffic information to identify the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDoS attack and takes appropriate mitigation action. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Cheers, -Tiru ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 at 10:01 Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt To: Tirumaleswar Reddy , Joshi Harsha < harsha_joshi@mcafee.com>, Jon Shallow , Mohamed Boucadair A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-reddy-dots-home-network Revision: 00 Title: Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Call Home Document date: 2018-10-16 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 15 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-dots-home-network/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-dots-home-network Abstract: This document presents DOTS signal channel Call Home service, which enables a DOTS server to initiate a secure connection to a DOTS client, and to receive the attack traffic information from the DOTS client. The DOTS server in turn uses the attack traffic information to identify the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDOS attack and takes appropriate mitigation action. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --000000000000b7916e0578657dad Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
<= br>
This draft=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-dots-ho= me-network-00=C2=A0discusses co-operative DDoS mitigation between the s= ubscribers (e.g. Home networks) and ISP using DOTS signal channel Call Home= service to the suppress the outbound DDoS attack traffic originating from = the home network.

It enables a DOTS server in= the home network to initiate a secure connection to a DOTS client in the I= SP, and the DOTS client conveys the attack traffic information to the DOTS = server.=C2=A0 The DOTS server uses the attack traffic information to identi= fy the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDoS attack and takes app= ropriate mitigation action.

Comments = and suggestions are welcome.

Cheers,
-Tiru

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.= org>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 at 10:01
Subject: New Versi= on Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt
To: Tirumaleswa= r Reddy <kondtir@gmail.com>,= Joshi Harsha <harsha_joshi@m= cafee.com>, Jon Shallow <supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com>, Mohamed Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
=



A new version of I-D, draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-reddy-dots-home-network=
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Denial-of-Service Open Threat Sign= aling (DOTS) Signal Channel Call Home
Document date:=C2=A0 2018-10-16
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-reddy-dots-ho= me-network-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-dots-home-network/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http= s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-dots-home-network<= br>

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document presents DOTS signal channel Call Home service, = which
=C2=A0 =C2=A0enables a DOTS server to initiate a secure connection to a DOT= S
=C2=A0 =C2=A0client, and to receive the attack traffic information from the= DOTS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0client.=C2=A0 The DOTS server in turn uses the attack traffic = information
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to identify the compromised devices launching the outgoing DDO= S
=C2=A0 =C2=A0attack and takes appropriate mitigation action.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
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The IETF Secretariat

--000000000000b7916e0578657dad-- From nobody Wed Oct 17 11:41:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1875A130E0E for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:41:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BCVNm-SUr2MS for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu [18.7.68.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3439F128C65 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:41:07 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074425-d49ff7000000457e-3b-5bc7824055b0 Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-8.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id F5.0D.17790.14287CB5; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w9HIf2bq024080; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:41:03 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9HIewJZ032617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:41:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:40:58 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "Mortensen, Andrew" Cc: dots Message-ID: <20181017184058.GE19309@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20181008145601.GL56675@kduck.kaduk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprNKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrevYdDza4NlSI4sP/b8ZLda+OcLq wOSxZMlPJo8HDawBTFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGct+97EUTJ/EWDGv7RNjA+OL/C5GTg4JAROJ 2Qtus3cxcnEICSxmkjh26TuUs5FRYu7kdcwQzlUmib3b57GCtLAIqErc/zWbDcRmE1CRaOi+ zAxiiwiYSxz6/RishllAQqL3+GxGEFtYwFJi1d8vTCA2L9C6f729YDVCAlkSN7d/YoWIC0qc nPmEBaJXXeLPvEtAMzmAbGmJ5f84IMLyEs1bZ4Ot4hRwkDi9+T7YCaICyhJ7+w6xT2AUnIVk 0iwkk2YhTJqFZNICRpZVjLIpuVW6uYmZOcWpybrFyYl5ealFuhZ6uZkleqkppZsYQWHN7qK6 g3HOX69DjAIcjEo8vA9Sj0cLsSaWFVfmHmKU5GBSEuWd/uNYtBBfUn5KZUZicUZ8UWlOavEh RgkOZiUR3ipFoHLelMTKqtSifJiUNAeLkjjvpJbF0UIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZGQ4OJQneGY1A jYJFqempFWmZOSUIaSYOTpDhPEDD+0BqeIsLEnOLM9Mh8qcYLTm2nemcwczR9vQ6kOwAkUIs efl5qVLivDtAGgRAGjJK8+BmgtKURPb+mleM4kAvCvP+aACq4gGmOLipr4AWMgEtdLc9ArKw JBEhJdXA6HXldMkDyUPPvhwRexdeW24fkKy1ee8DBn8b+9Clbts/dvIyGx/jKhNcuKqVIfnx tmPB/nH7+3Y5fkyX80xVnSSVY9z1ZuYZs8/PJu5s8WqRK9DxetJ6Tfq10dUNLqGXputNFTnL Pp9720btxOstDSkvbs22PvDE16zmXkeijR2r8eVDszOzlFiKMxINtZiLihMBgodATi4DAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] AD review of draft-ietf-dots-requirements-15 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:41:13 -0000 Excellent; thank you! -Ben On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 02:16:00PM +0000, Mortensen, Andrew wrote: > Hi Ben. Thanks for this helpful feedback. I’ve been working on incorporating the changes, and should have an updated revision ready shortly. > > andrew > > > > > On Oct 8, 2018, at 10:56 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > > > Hi all, > > > > Thanks for the fine document, and sorry for the processing delay -- the > > timing interacted poorly with my travel schedule. > > > > I just have some editorial notes that it would be nice to fix before we send > > this out for broader review; I'll list them section-by-section. > > > > Section 1.1 > > > > A standardized method to coordinate a real-time response among > > involved operators will increase the speed and effectiveness of DDoS > > attack mitigation, and reduce the impact of these attacks. This > > document describes the required characteristics of protocols that > > enable attack coordination and mitigation of DDoS attacks. > > > > "protocols that enable attack coordination" can be read as if we are > > generating DDoS attacks, which is probably not the intention. > > > > Section 1.2 > > > > RFC 8174 has updated BCP 14 boilerplate; proactively changing to use it > > will save lots of reviewers from pointing this out. > > > > Mitigator: An entity, typically a network element, capable of > > performing mitigation of a detected or reported DDoS attack. The > > means by which this entity performs these mitigations and how they > > are requested of it are out of scope. The mitigator and DOTS > > server receiving a mitigation request are assumed to belong to the > > same administrative entity. > > > > It may be best to avoid an unqualified "out of scope" and be clear about if > > it's out of scope for this document, for the WG, etc. > > > > DOTS signal: A concise authenticated status/control message > > transmitted over the signal channel between DOTS agents, used to > > indicate the client's need for mitigation, as well as to convey > > the status of any requested mitigation. > > > > Is the message itself authenticated in addition to the authentication > > provided by the signal channel? It might be confusing to mention > > authentication in both places if it's just the channel providing > > authentication. > > > > Also, I would suggest to s/as well as/or/, since (presumably) a single > > message can do just one or the other. > > > > Data channel: A bidirectional, mutually authentication communication > > channel between two DOTS agents used for infrequent but reliable > > bulk exchange of data not easily or appropriately communicated > > through the signal channel under attack conditions. > > > > This definition left me wondering whether the data channel is supposed to > > function during attack conditions (i.e., if the attack condition rendered > > the signal channel unusable for this purpose, so the data channel was > > created to still work under attack conditions). The rest of the document > > seems to clarify that the data channel is not expected to be useful during > > attack conditions, so perhaps this could be clarified here. > > > > Blacklist: A list of filters indicating sources from which traffic > > should be blocked, regardless of traffic content. > > > > Whitelist: A list of filters indicating sources from which traffic > > should always be allowed, regardless of contradictory data gleaned > > in a detected attack. > > > > I note without further comment that there was recently a long thread on > > ietf@ietf.org about potentially offensive terminology, which included both > > of these words as examples. > > > > Section 2 > > > > The DOTS protocol must at a minimum make it possible for a DOTS > > client to request aid mounting a defense, coordinated by a DOTS > > server, against a suspected attack, signaling within or between > > domains as requested by local operators. [...] > > > > This sentence has a lot of commas that breaks up the flow trying to read > > it. It could perhaps be split into two, as > > > > % The DOTS protocol must at a minimum make it possible for a DOTS > > % client to request aid mounting a defense against a suspected attack. > > % This defense could be coordinated by a DOTS server and include signaling > > % within or between domains as requested by local operators. > > > > [...] > > clients need to justify withdrawing help requests: the decision is > > local to the DOTS clients' domain. Multi-homed DOTS clients must be > > able to select the appropriate DOTS server(s) to which a mitigation > > request is to be sent. The method for selecting the appropriate DOTS > > server in a multi-homed environment is out of scope. > > > > (same comment about "out of scope"). > > > > DOTS protocol implementations face competing operational goals when > > maintaining this bidirectional communication stream. On the one > > hand, DOTS must include protections ensuring message confidentiality, > > integrity and authenticity to keep the protocols from becoming > > additional vectors for the very attacks it is meant to help fight > > off. [...] > > > > It's probably worth including freshness/replay protection in this list. > > > > Section 2.1 > > > > GEN-001 Extensibility: Protocols and data models developed as part > > of DOTS MUST be extensible in order to keep DOTS adaptable to > > operational and proprietary DDoS defenses. Future extensions MUST > > be backward compatible. DOTS protocols MUST use a version number > > system to distinguish protocol revisions. Implementations of > > older protocol versions SHOULD ignore information added to DOTS > > messages as part of newer protocol versions. > > > > No change specifically needed, but I'll note that using a version number > > mostly precludes using individual per-feature tags to indicate feature > > support. It's okay for a WG to be making such a design choice at this > > point in the process; I'm just pointing out that it is something of a > > design choice. > > > > GEN-002 Resilience and Robustness: The signaling protocol MUST be > > designed to maximize the probability of signal delivery even under > > the severely constrained network conditions caused by particular > > attack traffic. [...] > > > > The word choice "particular" makes it sound as if there is a specific > > attack that the author has in mind, leaving the reader wondering what > > attack that is. It may be better to just remove the word entirely or give > > some description of what attack type(s) are relevant. > > > > GEN-003 Bulk Data Exchange: Infrequent bulk data exchange between > > DOTS agents can also significantly augment attack response > > coordination, permitting such tasks as population of black- or > > white-listed source addresses; address or prefix group aliasing; > > exchange of incident reports; and other hinting or configuration > > supplementing attack response. > > > > As the resilience requirements for the DOTS signal channel mandate > > small signal message size, a separate, secure data channel > > utilizing a reliable transport protocol MUST be used for bulk data > > exchange. > > > > (This could potentially also clarify if it's expected to be useful during > > attack conditions.) > > > > GEN-004 Mitigation Hinting: DOTS clients may have access to attack > > details which can be used to inform mitigation techniques. > > Example attack details might include locally collected > > fingerprints for an on-going attack, or anticipated or active > > attack focal points based on other threat intelligence. DOTS > > clients MAY send mitigation hints derived from attack details to > > DOTS servers, in the full understanding that the DOTS server MAY > > ignore mitigation hints. Mitigation hints MAY be transmitted > > across either signal or data channel. [...] > > > > My colleagues on the IESG tend to ask questions when there are multiple > > options permitted but no discussion of why one might prefer one option or > > the other. (That is, they prefer a single mandatory option for reasons of > > protocol simplicity.) > > > > Section 2.2 > > > > SIG-002 Sub-MTU Message Size: To avoid message fragmentation and the > > consequently decreased probability of message delivery over a > > congested link, signaling protocol message size MUST be kept under > > signaling Path Maximum Transmission Unit (PMTU), including the > > byte overhead of any encapsulation, transport headers, and > > transport- or message-level security. > > DOTS agents SHOULD attempt to learn the PMTU through mechanisms > > such as Path MTU Discovery [RFC1191] or Packetization Layer Path > > MTU Discovery [RFC4821]. If the PMTU cannot be discovered, DOTS > > agents SHOULD assume a PMTU of 1280 bytes. If IPv4 support on > > legacy or otherwise unusual networks is a consideration and PMTU > > nit: "the PMTU" > > is unknown, DOTS implementations MAY rely on a PMTU of 576 bytes, > > as discussed in [RFC0791] and [RFC1122]. > > > > SIG-003 Bidirectionality: To support peer health detection, to > > maintain an active signal channel, and increase the probability of > > nit: "to increase" > > signal delivery during an attack, the signal channel MUST be > > bidirectional, with client and server transmitting signals to each > > other at regular intervals, regardless of any client request for > > mitigation. Unidirectional messages MUST be supported within the > > bidirectional signal channel to allow for unsolicited message > > delivery, enabling asynchronous notifications between DOTS agents. > > > > This sentence about unidirectional messages left me a bit confused on first > > read, I think just because of the way it was phrased. It's basically just > > saying that the signal channel is not necessarily request/reply pairs, but > > can include oneshot notification messages that don't get an > > application-level reply (but could still get a transport-level ack), right? > > I don't have any specific text suggestions here, and it's probably okay to > > leave it as-is. (I have no particular reason to think that other people > > get confused in the same ways that I do, after all.) > > > > SIG-005 Channel Redirection: In order to increase DOTS operational > > flexibility and scalability, DOTS servers SHOULD be able to > > redirect DOTS clients to another DOTS server at any time. DOTS > > clients MUST NOT assume the redirection target DOTS server shares > > security state with the redirecting DOTS server. DOTS clients are > > free to attempt abbreviated security negotiation methods supported > > by the protocol, such as DTLS session resumption, but MUST be > > prepared to negotiate new security state with the redirection > > target DOTS server. > > > > When redirection occurs, is it always within the same "authentication > > domain"? There are perhaps additional complications about authenticating > > the two servers and the redirection action if they are managed by different > > entities or the client will be using different credentials with them. > > > > SIG-006 Mitigation Requests and Status: Authorized DOTS clients MUST > > [...] > > The initial active-but-terminating period is implementation- and > > deployment- specific, but SHOULD be sufficiently long to absorb > > latency incurred by route propagation. If the client requests > > mitigation again before the initial active-but-terminating period > > > > Just to check my understanding: this new mitigation request serves only to > > extend the current termination period, and so the client would have to make > > yet another mitigation request after mitigation terminates? > > > > elapses, the DOTS server MAY exponentially increase the active- > > but-terminating period up to a maximum of 300 seconds (5 minutes). > > > > "exponentially" requires specifying an exponent base -- is the period > > doubling each request, increasing by a factor of 1.5, ...? > > > > After the active-but-terminating period elapses, the DOTS server > > MUST treat the mitigation as terminated, as the DOTS client is no > > longer responsible for the mitigation. > > > > > > SIG-008 Mitigation Scope: DOTS clients MUST indicate desired > > mitigation scope. The scope type will vary depending on the > > resources requiring mitigation. All DOTS agent implementations > > MUST support the following required scope types: > > > > * IPv4 prefixes in CIDR notation [RFC4632] > > > > I don't see why CIDR notation comes into play for the protocol itself; why > > not just say "IPv4 prefixes" to match the "IPv6 prefixes" below? > > > > If there is additional information available narrowing the scope > > of any requested attack response, such as targeted port range, > > protocol, or service, DOTS clients SHOULD include that information > > in client mitigation requests. DOTS clients MAY also include > > additional attack details. DOTS servers MAY ignore such > > supplemental information when enabling countermeasures on the > > mitigator. > > > > Is it implicit from this that the signal channel needs to provide some way > > in which to convey this sort of structured data that makes the semantics > > clear (as opposed to, say, implementation-defined)? > > > > Section 2.3 > > > > DATA-002 Data privacy and integrity: Transmissions over the data > > channel are likely to contain operationally or privacy-sensitive > > information or instructions from the remote DOTS agent. Theft or > > modification of data channel transmissions could lead to > > information leaks or malicious transactions on behalf of the > > sending agent (see Section 4 below). Consequently data sent over > > > > It may be worth mentioning the risk of replay explicitly. > > > > the data channel MUST be encrypted and authenticated using current > > IETF best practices. DOTS servers MUST enable means to prevent > > > > Do we need to provide an extensible model or negotiation scheme for the > > encryption/authentication algorithms, so that implementations can adapt as > > best practices change? > > > > leaking operationally or privacy-sensitive data. Although > > administrative entities participating in DOTS may detail what data > > may be revealed to third-party DOTS agents, such considerations > > are not in scope for this document. > > > > DATA-003 Resource Configuration: To help meet the general and signal > > channel requirements in Section 2.1 and Section 2.2, DOTS server > > implementations MUST provide an interface to configure resource > > identifiers, as described in SIG-007. [...] > > > > I think this is SIG-008, not SIG-007. > > > > Section 2.4 > > > > SEC-001 Peer Mutual Authentication: DOTS agents MUST authenticate > > each other before a DOTS signal or data channel is considered > > valid. The method of authentication is not specified, but should > > follow current industry best practices with respect to any > > cryptographic mechanisms to authenticate the remote peer. > > > > Authentication is great. What model is used for making authorization > > decisions? > > > > SEC-002 Message Confidentiality, Integrity and Authenticity: DOTS > > [...] > > In order for DOTS protocols to remain secure despite advancements > > in cryptanalysis and traffic analysis, DOTS agents MUST be able to > > negotiate the terms and mechanisms of protocol security, subject > > to the interoperability and signal message size requirements in > > Section 2.2. > > > > I'd probably say "securely negotiate" just to avoid any questions. > > > > SEC-004 Authorization: DOTS servers MUST authorize all messages from > > DOTS clients which pertain to mitigation, configuration, > > filtering, or status. > > > > Are there any message types left (that would not need authorization)? > > > > Section 2.5 > > > > DM-004 Mitigation Scope Representation: The data model MUST support > > representation of a requested mitigation's scope. As mitigation > > scope may be represented in several different ways, per SIG-007 > > above, the data model MUST be capable of flexible representation > > of mitigation scope. > > > > Is "flexible" intended to encompass a generic extensibility to represent > > new types of data and new semantics? > > > > DM-007 Acceptable Signal Loss Representation: The data model MUST be > > able to represent the DOTS agent's preference for acceptable > > signal loss when establishing a signal channel, as described in > > GEN-002. > > > > Is this prefernce expressed as a threshold percentage of packet loss, a > > timeout for keepalive messages, some other way, or we don't care? > > > > Section 4 > > > > Impersonation of either DOTS server or DOTS client could have > > > > nit: "a DOTS server", "a DOTS client" > > > > Blocking communication between DOTS agents has the potential to > > disrupt the core function of DOTS, which is to request mitigation of > > active or expected DDoS attacks. The DOTS signal channel is expected > > to operate over congested inbound links, and, as described in > > Section 2.2, the signal channel protocol must be designed for minimal > > data transfer to reduce the incidence of signal blocking. > > > > "signal blocking" makes me think of an explicit firewall-like > > functionality, whereas I think the threat here is more of an accidental > > dropping of packets due to congestion and network elmeent overload. > > > > > > > > Hopefully we can get a new rev out quickly and then I can request the IETF > > Last Call! > > > > Thanks to everyone for the good work that went into this document. > > > > -Ben > > > From nobody Fri Oct 19 09:27:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540AF130FBB for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 09:27:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_DYNAMIC=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: dots@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153997540571.6592.17597923924859623873.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 11:56:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] dots - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:56:54 -0000 Dear Liang Xia, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. dots Session 1 (2:00 requested) Thursday, 8 November 2018, Morning Session I 0900-1100 Room Name: Meeting 1 size: 150 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/sessions/dots.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: DDoS Open Threat Signaling Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Liang Xia Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: mile i2nsf sacm saag Second Priority: opsawg People who must be present: Roman Danyliw Tobias Gondrom Liang Xia Benjamin Kaduk Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Oct 19 14:17:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3249B130DE5 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:17:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NSQJavrEkYhq for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from taper.sei.cmu.edu (taper.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 960E11286D9 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from delp.sei.cmu.edu (delp.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.31]) by taper.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w9JLHmbS019549 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:17:48 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 taper.sei.cmu.edu w9JLHmbS019549 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1539983868; bh=2L6u7kGAT7eDlkiHHN1yCrdT//OWxaE1h5N5sx6gEzc=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=lUlYC0B64+RWmVq55WJ+WlYG4bM3USMRveu4GtFaaxnP2f0kF37VqoWy36NZ//7EC GRk/5a5HrTOUcqYhGWBRzkwo4RMpUjy4MJaudVHddjhmSMefhGAbEUGFdOhnggHmms AOZ40IzdvxkngB/rzCPUtqgNTE1kSsKqHpUX/keE= Received: from CASCADE.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cascade.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.248]) by delp.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w9JLHkL4032791 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:17:46 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASCADE.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.248]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 19 Oct 2018 17:17:46 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Draft agenda for IETF 103 Thread-Index: AdRn8AOIwPs6Rk1BQl6Wywd78F4fOA== Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:17:46 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC0181A15F3F@marathon> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Draft agenda for IETF 103 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:17:53 -0000 Hello WG! The WG is schedule to meet on Thursday, November 8, 2018 from 0900-1100 (M= orning Session I) at IETF 103. Based on input to date, the following a dra= ft agenda: --[ agenda ]-- 1. Note well, logistics and introduction (10 min) - presenters: chairs 2. Interoperability and Hackathon Report(s) (20 min) - presenters: Kaname Nishizuka, Jon Shallow 3. Multihoming and Discovery (20 min) - presenter: Mohamed Boucadair - drafts: draft-boucadair-dots-server-discovery-05 : draft-boucadair-dots-multihoming-04=20 4. Cooperative DDoS mitigation between the Home network and ISP (20 min) - presenter: Tiru Reddy - draft: draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00 5. DDoS mitigation offload usecase and YANG module expansion in=20 signal channel (20 min) - presenter: Yuhei Hayashi - draft: draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion-00 6. WG next steps (25 min) 7. Closing (5 min) - presenters: chairs --[ end agenda ]-- If you have feedback on this draft or would like time, please contact the c= hairs. Regards, Roman and Frank From nobody Mon Oct 22 13:12:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50A6130E74; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:12:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <154023914675.13766.11653403172252774605@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:12:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:12:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements Authors : Andrew Mortensen Robert Moskowitz Tirumaleswar Reddy Filename : draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2018-10-22 Abstract: This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols enabling coordinated response to DDoS attacks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 22 13:15:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D9DE130E53 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:15:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_DYNAMIC=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wnybeh7XO2Eq for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00196b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00196b01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C414130E0A for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 13:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0096263.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00196b01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.23/8.16.0.23) with SMTP id w9MKBFlv030219 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:15:34 -0400 Received: from nam04-co1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam04lp0049.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.181.49]) by mx0a-00196b01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2n813jaf6d-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:15:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thescout.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-netscout-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Ojt2pBnCi3rxoYBzcBgyeufjAHc91FpHGCycIgGcVX0=; b=JEO2m5ePRynwT2DpVnmIsDJceoQJc0ysb4tPyX19FfvGQuxaAAu5KnHjbn6LWLqGSYNDXwex8jRmXeCKBmcle/QvYREWWz7jo+SbFwXYDHJL/eX3wLWsKm5iQm7/v62XntnSmJ3gcfiLzYYikjx9eHAGTv00aAbmC6mQr03x+1E= Received: from SN2PR01MB2063.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.208.138) by SN2PR01MB2112.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.166.208.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1250.30; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:15:43 -0000 --_000_C16759A2824F40F688DC81BAC88AC566netscoutcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This revision address the AD feedback received here: The editors hope this removes remaining barriers to IETF last call. andrew Begin forwarded message: From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt Date: October 22, 2018 at 4:12:27 PM EDT To: Reddy K >, >, Andr= ew Mortensen >, Tirumales= war Reddy >, Robert Moskowitz > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt has been successfully submitted by Andrew Mortensen and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-dots-requirements Revision: 16 Title: Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requireme= nts Document date: 2018-10-22 Group: dots Pages: 21 URL: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt --_000_C16759A2824F40F688DC81BAC88AC566netscoutcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This revision address the AD feedback received here:

<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/NKy0= SbeKU6iswFhKOfLYbMtLb_g>

The editors hope this removes remaining barriers to IETF la= st call.

andrew


Begin forwarded message:

From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Subject: New Version Notification = for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt
Date: October 22, 2018 at 4:12:27 PM EDT
To: Reddy K <tirumaleswarreddy_konda@mcafee.com>, <dots-chairs@i= etf.org>, Andrew Mortensen <am= ortensen@arbor.net>, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com= >, Robert Moskowitz <rgm@htt-consult.com>

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]


A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt
has been successfully submitted by Andrew Mortensen and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-ietf-dots-= requirements
Revision: 1= 6
Title: Distributed Den= ial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements
Document date: 2018-10-22
Group: dots
Pages: 21
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/= id/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt

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--_000_BN6PR16MB14252CF0618E3D6AED857DECEAF50BN6PR16MB1425namp_-- From nobody Tue Oct 23 05:28:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2281B130EBA for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:28:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G_AFJPi3wDZn for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 384A8130EB7 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 05:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42fXjF4T8Hz4wx5; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:28:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.13]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42fXjF3QKRzFpWb; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:28:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::54f9:a6c3:c013:cbc7%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:28:01 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Mortensen, Andrew" , dots , Benjamin Kaduk Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt Thread-Index: AQHUakOgShOI38lcLE2toRHx98oLwqUsjbPQgAAys1A= Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:28:00 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E019E49@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <154023914707.13766.12718384264915087037.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E019E49OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) œby outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9O3S5Ka028804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 23:28:07 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 22:28:04 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Mortensen, Andrew" , dots Message-ID: <20181024032804.GU45914@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <154023914707.13766.12718384264915087037.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E019E49@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E019E49@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: 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[Dots] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:28:14 -0000 On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 12:28:00PM +0000, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Hi Tiru, > > Also, the data-channel will be updated to make use of accept- and drop-list. > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > Envoyé : mardi 23 octobre 2018 11:20 > À : Mortensen, Andrew; dots; Benjamin Kaduk > Objet : Re: [Dots] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-16.txt > > Based on the updated DOTS requirements, following changes are required to DOTS protocol drafts: > > [1] In the updated requirement GEN-001, version number to distinguish protocol revisions is removed. Remove "Uri-Path: "v1.0"" from the DOTS signal channel specification. We have already introduced > comprehension-mandatory and comprehension-required parameters in DOTS signal channel protocol to accommodate future protocol extensions and backward compatibility. > > [Med] Yes. > > [2] > CIDR notation is not used for IPv4 prefix in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6991, updated SIG-008 requirement does not refer to CIDR notation; will remove the following line from the DOTS signal and data channel drafts : > "Prefixes are represented using Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) notation [RFC4632]." > > [Med] We are using cidr notation (even if 4632 is not explicitly cited in 6991). CIDR notation is still generally a good thing; my comment on dots-requirements was just that we have no *protocol-level* requirement to use it. I wasn't trying to say that we should stop using it. -Ben From nobody Fri Oct 26 14:39:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5567E130E05; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: dots@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, kaduk@mit.edu, dots-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org, Liang Xia Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154058996828.8790.15799270429143564427.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:39:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Last Call: (Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:39:28 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG (dots) to consider the following document: - 'Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements' as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-11-09. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols enabling coordinated response to DDoS attacks. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2744/ From nobody Fri Oct 26 20:43:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E291292AD for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 20:43:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a2EmVuTZqWmj for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75625126BED for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6E40B87E8366A for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 04:43:07 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 04:43:07 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.10]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 11:42:58 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Integration Technology Research Dept)" Thread-Topic: Some comments on draft-reddy-dots-home-network Thread-Index: AdRtpgRgty6p189FRMWoghGoq+28Mw== Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:42:57 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBB@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBBnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Some comments on draft-reddy-dots-home-network X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 03:43:14 -0000 --_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBBnkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi authors of draft-reddy-dots-home-network, I've gone through the DOTS Signal Channel Call Home draft. In my opinion, t= he scenario described in this draft is important and the solution is very u= seful. In this draft, you described the problem which IoT devices in home network = faced and the corresponding solution. These IoT devices may be easily compr= omised to become the DDoS attackers. For this situation, the most effective= ways to mitigate the attack are blocking the traffic from these IoT device= s to the attack targets and quarantining the devices. We can also consider = the ways as attack mitigation near the source. For this draft I also have some comments as follows. Comment 1: The draft can extend the scenario. I think other scenarios may have the similar problems and the solution can = be similar too. For example, the devices in the DC scenario may not only be= the victims of DDoS attacks, but also can be compromised and used for laun= ching DDoS attacks in some cases. If the latter situation happens, the solu= tion described in the draft will be helpful too. Comment 2: The draft should specific the way that the DOTS server learns it= s own scope of domain. Comment 3: The draft should extend the protocol to convey the scope of the = DOTS server's domain to the DOTS client. In the section 3.2.1, it says "the DOTS client MUST validate that attacker = prefixes are within the scope of the DOTS server's domain". To achieve this= goal, I think the two issues list above should be solved first. The scope of the DOTS server's domain may be configured by the administrato= r directly, or it can be learned by the DOTS server automatically if possib= le. If the configuration way is a better choice, the YANG module may be wor= th to be defined. Without conveying the scopes of each DOTS server to the DOTS client, the DO= TS client will not be able to find the exact DOTS server to send the mitiga= tion request. Comment 4: The draft should consider more for Network Address Translation. Due to the exhaustion of IP addresses, the NAT function has been used more = and more widely, so the home network is very likely to be behind NAT equipm= ent. With this background, I think we should consider more about the proble= ms brought by NAT functions and the methods how we solve these problems, ot= herwise the whole solution will be very restricted in use. One problem has been described in section 3.2.1 where it says "When a trans= lator is on-path, the DOTS server uses the attack traffic information to fi= nd the internal source IP address of the compromised device". But before the DOTS server receives the mitigation request from the DOTS cl= ient, the DOTS client must know the DOTS server's external scope, otherwise= the DOTS client can't find the correct DOTS server to send the mitigation = request. So the DOTS server should know its own external scope first, then convey th= e external scope to the DOTS client, and at last find the internal source I= P address when receive a mitigation request. Comment 5: The Attack Name/Type or ID is optional to be conveyed. >From my point of view, the detailed information of the attack, like attack = type, may be mainly helpful for diagnostic purpose. Its help for mitigating= the attack is limited. Best Regards Wei Pan --_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBBnkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi authors of draft-reddy-dots-home-network,=

 

I've gone through the DOTS Signal Channel Call Home draft. In = my opinion, the scenario described in this draft is important and the solut= ion is very useful.

In this draft, you described the problem which IoT devices in = home network faced and the corresponding solution. These IoT devices may be= easily compromised to become the DDoS attackers. For this situation, the most effective ways to mitigate the att= ack are blocking the traffic from these IoT devices to the attack targets a= nd quarantining the devices. We can also consider the ways as attack mitiga= tion near the source.

 

For this draft I also have some comments as follows.

 

Comment 1: The draft can extend the scenario.

I think other scenarios may have the similar problems and the = solution can be similar too. For example, the devices in the DC scenario ma= y not only be the victims of DDoS attacks, but also can be compromised and used for launching DDoS attacks in some ca= ses. If the latter situation happens, the solution described in the draft w= ill be helpful too.

 

Comment 2: The draft should specific the way that the DOTS ser= ver learns its own scope of domain.

Comment 3: The draft should extend the protocol to convey the = scope of the DOTS server's domain to the DOTS client.

In the section 3.2.1, it says "the DOTS client MUST valid= ate that attacker prefixes are within the scope of the DOTS server's domain= ". To achieve this goal, I think the two issues list above should be solved first.

The scope of the DOTS server's domain may be configured by the= administrator directly, or it can be learned by the DOTS server automatica= lly if possible. If the configuration way is a better choice, the YANG module may be worth to be defined.

Without conveying the scopes of each DOTS server to the DOTS c= lient, the DOTS client will not be able to find the exact DOTS server to se= nd the mitigation request.

 

Comment 4: The draft should consider more for Network Address = Translation.

Due to the exhaustion of IP addresses, the NAT function has be= en used more and more widely, so the home network is very likely to be behi= nd NAT equipment. With this background, I think we should consider more about the problems brought by NAT function= s and the methods how we solve these problems, otherwise the whole solution= will be very restricted in use.

One problem has been described in section 3.2.1 where it says = "When a translator is on-path, the DOTS server uses the attack traffic= information to find the internal source IP address of the compromised device".

But before the DOTS server receives the mitigation request fro= m the DOTS client, the DOTS client must know the DOTS server's external sco= pe, otherwise the DOTS client can't find the correct DOTS server to send the mitigation request.<= /p>

So the DOTS server should know its own external scope first, t= hen convey the external scope to the DOTS client, and at last find the inte= rnal source IP address when receive a mitigation request.

 

Comment 5: The Attack Name/Type or ID is optional to be convey= ed.

From my point of view, the detailed information of the attack,= like attack type, may be mainly helpful for diagnostic purpose. Its help f= or mitigating the attack is limited.

 

Best Regards

Wei Pan

 

--_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBBnkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Mon Oct 29 00:26:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A10129C6B for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 00:26:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yyQ27VejSTeM for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 00:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5939B130DDC for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 00:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42k5jv3vm3z2yFs; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:25:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.61]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42k5jv2q4DzBrLT; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:25:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b91c:ea2c:ac8a:7462%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:25:55 +0100 From: To: tirumal reddy , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUZdI2lYRqMZnwBUu+nnCe2R/wyaUivc2AgBMmwzA= Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:25:54 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038A88@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <153975066078.9441.6137080410530428738.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038A88OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-home-network-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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+0100 From: To: "Panwei (William)" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Integration Technology Research Dept)" Thread-Topic: Some comments on draft-reddy-dots-home-network Thread-Index: AdRtpgRgty6p189FRMWoghGoq+28MwBsqIlA Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:50:29 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038AAF@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBB@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A608A1CBB@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038AAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Some comments on draft-reddy-dots-home-network X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:51:10 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038AAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wei, Thank you for the review. Please see inline. Cheers, Med De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Panwei (William) Envoy=E9 : samedi 27 octobre 2018 05:43 =C0 : dots@ietf.org Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Integration Technology Research Dept) Objet : [Dots] Some comments on draft-reddy-dots-home-network Hi authors of draft-reddy-dots-home-network, I've gone through the DOTS Signal Channel Call Home draft. In my opinion, t= he scenario described in this draft is important and the solution is very u= seful. [Med] Thank you. In this draft, you described the problem which IoT devices in home network = faced and the corresponding solution. These IoT devices may be easily compr= omised to become the DDoS attackers. For this situation, the most effective= ways to mitigate the attack are blocking the traffic from these IoT device= s to the attack targets and quarantining the devices. We can also consider = the ways as attack mitigation near the source. [Med] Agree. IoT is only cited as a sample example. For this draft I also have some comments as follows. Comment 1: The draft can extend the scenario. I think other scenarios may have the similar problems and the solution can = be similar too. For example, the devices in the DC scenario may not only be= the victims of DDoS attacks, but also can be compromised and used for laun= ching DDoS attacks in some cases. If the latter situation happens, the solu= tion described in the draft will be helpful too. [Med] The solution is applicable each time an attack is issued from sources= located in a domain hosting a DOTS server. So, it can be used to notify at= tacks from within a network. This network can be a home network, an enterpr= ise network, a DC network, etc. Comment 2: The draft should specific the way that the DOTS server learns it= s own scope of domain. [Med] This is straightforward for the CPE case: IP addresses/prefixes manag= ed by that CPE. This can be fed automatically (DHCP leases, prefix delegati= on) or be explicitly configured by an administrator. We may add a discussio= n about this in the draft. Comment 3: The draft should extend the protocol to convey the scope of the = DOTS server's domain to the DOTS client. [Med] The scope of the DOTS server is supposed to be known because this is = part of the "classic" DOTS operation. The signal channel I-D says the follo= wing: DOTS servers MUST verify that requesting DOTS clients are entitled to trigger actions on a given IP prefix. That is, only actions on IP resources that belong to the DOTS client' domain MUST be authorized by a DOTS server. The exact mechanism for the DOTS servers to validate that the target prefixes are within the scope of the DOTS client's domain is deployment-specific. In the section 3.2.1, it says "the DOTS client MUST validate that attacker = prefixes are within the scope of the DOTS server's domain". To achieve this= goal, I think the two issues list above should be solved first. [Med] Agree. This is covered in the base spec. The scope of the DOTS server's domain may be configured by the administrato= r directly, or it can be learned by the DOTS server automatically if possib= le. [Med] Agree. If the configuration way is a better choice, the YANG module may be worth t= o be defined. [Med] Can you please elaborate on this? Without conveying the scopes of each DOTS server to the DOTS client, the DO= TS client will not be able to find the exact DOTS server to send the mitiga= tion request. [Med] Please refer to the base DOTS signal channel specification. Comment 4: The draft should consider more for Network Address Translation. Due to the exhaustion of IP addresses, the NAT function has been used more = and more widely, so the home network is very likely to be behind NAT equipm= ent. [Med] There are various flavors there: one single NAT at the CPE, no NAT at= the CPE but a NAT in the network (DS-Lite), A+P (port-restricted NAT on th= e CPE), double NAT (NAT in the CPE and another NAT in the network), etc. We= would like to avoid to dig into deployment-specific considerations, but id= entify key hurdles for NAT (and firewall) traversal. With this background, I think we should consider more about the problems br= ought by NAT functions and the methods how we solve these problems, otherwi= se the whole solution will be very restricted in use. [Med] We are happy to elaborate on this. Suggestions are more than welcome. One problem has been described in section 3.2.1 where it says "When a trans= lator is on-path, the DOTS server uses the attack traffic information to fi= nd the internal source IP address of the compromised device". But before the DOTS server receives the mitigation request from the DOTS cl= ient, the DOTS client must know the DOTS server's external scope, otherwise= the DOTS client can't find the correct DOTS server to send the mitigation = request. [Med] Yes, this is known as a side effect of the text quoted from the signa= l channel draft. So the DOTS server should know its own external scope first, then convey th= e external scope to the DOTS client, and at last find the internal source I= P address when receive a mitigation request. Comment 5: The Attack Name/Type or ID is optional to be conveyed. >From my point of view, the detailed information of the attack, like attack = type, may be mainly helpful for diagnostic purpose. Its help for mitigating= the attack is limited. [Med] OK, thanks. Best Regards Wei Pan --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038AAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Wei,

 

Thank you for = the review.

 

Please see inl= ine.

 

Cheers,

Med=

 

De : Dots [mailto:dots-b= ounces@ietf.org] De la part de Panwei (William)
Envoy=E9 : samedi 27 octobre 2018 05:43
=C0 : dots@ietf.org
Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Integration Technology Research D= ept)
Objet : [Dots] Some comments on draft-reddy-dots-home-network

 =

Hi authors of draft-reddy-dots-home= -network,

 

I've gone through the DOTS Signal C= hannel Call Home draft. In my opinion, the scenario described in this draft= is important and the solution is very useful.

[Med] Thank you.

 

In this draft, you described the pr= oblem which IoT devices in home network faced and the corresponding solutio= n. These IoT devices may be easily compromised to become the DDoS attackers. For this situation, the most effective ways = to mitigate the attack are blocking the traffic from these IoT devices to t= he attack targets and quarantining the devices. We can also consider the wa= ys as attack mitigation near the source.

[Med] Agree. IoT is only cited as a sample example.  

 

For this draft I also have some com= ments as follows.

 

Comment 1: The draft can extend the= scenario.

I think other scenarios may have th= e similar problems and the solution can be similar too. For example, the de= vices in the DC scenario may not only be the victims of DDoS attacks, but also can be compromised and used for l= aunching DDoS attacks in some cases. If the latter situation happens, the s= olution described in the draft will be helpful too.

 

[Med] The solution is applicable each time an attack is issued= from sources located in a domain hosting a DOTS server. So, it can be used to notify attacks from within a network. This n= etwork can be a home network, an enterprise network, a DC network, etc. &nb= sp;

 

Comment 2: The draft should specifi= c the way that the DOTS server learns its own scope of domain.

[Med] This is straightforward for the CPE case: IP addresses/p= refixes managed by that CPE. This can be fed automatically (DHCP leases, prefix delegation) or be explicitly configured by an adminis= trator. We may add a discussion about this in the draft.

 

Comment 3: The draft should extend = the protocol to convey the scope of the DOTS server's domain to the DOTS cl= ient.

[Med] The scope of the DOTS server is supposed to be known bec= ause this is part of the “classic” DOTS operation. The signal channel I-D says the following:

   DOTS servers MUST verify that requesting DOTS= clients are entitled to

   trigger actions on a given IP prefix.  T= hat is, only actions on IP

   resources that belong to the DOTS client' dom= ain MUST be authorized

   by a DOTS server.  The exact mechanism f= or the DOTS servers to

   validate that the target prefixes are within = the scope of the DOTS

   client's domain is deployment-specific.<= /o:p>

 

In the section 3.2.1, it says "= ;the DOTS client MUST validate that attacker prefixes are within the scope = of the DOTS server's domain". To achieve this goal, I think the two issues list above should be solved first.=

 

[Med] Agree. This is covered in the base spec.

 

The scope of the DOTS server's doma= in may be configured by the administrator directly, or it can be learned by= the DOTS server automatically if possible.

[Med] Agree.

 

If the configuration way is a bette= r choice, the YANG module may be worth to be defined.

 

[Med] Can you please elaborate on this?

 

Without conveying the scopes of eac= h DOTS server to the DOTS client, the DOTS client will not be able to find = the exact DOTS server to send the mitigation request.

[Med] Please refer to the base DOTS signal channel specificati= on.

 

Comment 4: The draft should conside= r more for Network Address Translation.

Due to the exhaustion of IP address= es, the NAT function has been used more and more widely, so the home networ= k is very likely to be behind NAT equipment.

[Med] There are various flavors there: one single NAT at the C= PE, no NAT at the CPE but a NAT in the network (DS-Lite), A+P (port-restricted NAT on the CPE), double NAT (NAT in the CPE and a= nother NAT in the network), etc. We would like to avoid to dig into deploym= ent-specific considerations, but identify key hurdles for NAT (and firewall= ) traversal.

 

With this background, I think we sh= ould consider more about the problems brought by NAT functions and the meth= ods how we solve these problems, otherwise the whole solution will be very restricted in use.

[Med] We are happy to elaborate on this. Suggestions are more = than welcome.

 

One problem has been described in s= ection 3.2.1 where it says "When a translator is on-path, the DOTS ser= ver uses the attack traffic information to find the internal source IP address of the compromised device".<= /o:p>

But before the DOTS server receives= the mitigation request from the DOTS client, the DOTS client must know the= DOTS server's external scope, otherwise the DOTS client can't find the correct DOTS server to send the mitigation = request.

[Med] Yes, this is known as a side effect of the text quoted f= rom the signal channel draft.

 

So the DOTS server should know its = own external scope first, then convey the external scope to the DOTS client= , and at last find the internal source IP address when receive a mitigation request.

 

Comment 5: The Attack Name/Type or = ID is optional to be conveyed.

From my point of view, the detailed= information of the attack, like attack type, may be mainly helpful for dia= gnostic purpose. Its help for mitigating the attack is limited.

[Med] OK, thanks.  

 

Best Regards=

Wei Pan

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E038AAFOPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Mon Oct 29 10:11:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C35131026 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:11:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bxFvMEi0A07Y for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veto.sei.cmu.edu (veto.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 961D9131023 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from delp.sei.cmu.edu (delp.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.31]) by veto.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w9THBmOX001851; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:11:49 -0400 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 veto.sei.cmu.edu w9THBmOX001851 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1540833109; bh=m++DzV09xWAnbIu9n2I7Ylnf3EMGqb+IDSkRFSZcr7o=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:From; b=Athl9KOjzkV07w8uC+uQw2iM8lI+jYc1JVGtTBu6CkhLzgBiBtqsy9nAXIDy8QrYL Pw4ULv21u83AjFAddY9TAX4UV0TGzX8tAVaN6f8fAtvKtYMljarx5oWew8QwQUjWa/ 3rjiWCTxYh/+gpSxGJ0aHOFQcHW0AI1MFV99L2s0= Received: from CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu (cassina.ad.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.28.249]) by delp.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w9THBkRp032752; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:11:46 -0400 Received: from MARATHON.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.250]) by CASSINA.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.249]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:11:46 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: "dots@ietf.org" CC: "nteague@verisign.com" , "rgm@labs.htt-consult.com" , "stefan.fouant@copperriverit.com" Thread-Topic: Publication of draft-ietf-dots-use-cases requires IPR conformance check Thread-Index: AdRvqmd7N9ly1zhyRTeZI8TDkhu8jQ== Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:11:45 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC0181A3479E@marathon> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Publication of draft-ietf-dots-use-cases requires IPR conformance check X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:11:56 -0000 Hello! The use case draft (draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-16) is ready for publication = but is awaiting a shepherd write-up. As the document shepherd, I need help= from this draft's authors to complete the write-up as was noted in [1]. S= pecifically, I need to assert that that the IPR issues per BCP 78/79 have = been filed. Daniel helpfully started a thread of public assertions on IPR from the auth= ors:=20 ** Daniel Migault: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dots/current/msg02= 707.html ** Frank Xialiang: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dots/current/msg02= 708.html ** Roland Dobbins: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dots/current/msg02= 710.html ** Kaname Nishizuka: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dots/current/msg= 02711.html A response is still needed from Stefan Fouant, Nik Teague and Robert Moskow= itz. Stefan/Nik/Bob: can you please respond to Daniel's thread on IPR. Thanks, Roman [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dots/current/msg02715.html From nobody Mon Oct 29 13:02:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C4F130F6F for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:02:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6tLN90wjctVz for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x230.google.com (mail-oi1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5063130ECD for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x230.google.com with SMTP id f21-v6so5145884oig.1 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YS3q2slrcTx8AxDGDv19gAn6q64v6ccPuuYpvJJDO6U=; b=dvZ8Sd7Y9W5YtEHpzyUIoNMWxZ0Ss0JAihzPyW6qE48WZrdOo/YERtsgpTFkajGeEf XshNxD7Wcvdg4NQ8HXGMxqfYyfNgVko8SIxGMDNfIMB1nW4aNNlKw1dL7aWPUsbu9fh7 pIKmnbpLQ0iqeOCxZtmYp/rc5srtjftj51JL98G2AkQ72KnS5V3XjXh2k2Ny4PZ6bgC9 OFGw33eQaShZdyw1Jbr0/Ly7EZ1Op0nQDvk5kUHHA8XYNMxA0CXW/L/K+N/G4Xfa1HE0 IxognDJ51KNeN3u8wk6ZH6A71shhMXETvkRYkmZvRH15pqzG0d783I/R6N1H2WOtOKmL 7XIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=YS3q2slrcTx8AxDGDv19gAn6q64v6ccPuuYpvJJDO6U=; b=FOcPojoX/+R1ObPmHS4597eBsIOU7ykzmDcr0/iacv69yPR0WWbGv7uxzcXfKIep3N B3V5AXyELDvhGpIezDuaUMwO8WEbuXKgkHS/f3x8/reX9Fz/1pfkbtmiFvxODLKxTTud x2Uhjv9AK0cvoxODoS57QNrO17cKqPIK+4tEgsna3Rw4QJ+t1io9NIumPEaPDmc2WDm2 d8Sd9Q402uygJaW5JPmRSgyKCl8mbjgn3H6eqaHLEGDf2kKAJsz6Niah+O57YDOzCgjf 4QSlkfbqlV1h6eGGT/b7OA17ZEW6W81S0VK24SpJLe+g6lGJKb9g3xnGS7ZQ86B8UqHE Yj1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKgod6HuP0vMkxm9dkpHUYC49fjZRe8zB7+WeFsbOyYOZ6lgsnc JjgNhG6x1OnyqObLoxi7iuRdU/UTdP+kfIOh5gvTYA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5e8hm3GmCi/KExL+l8J6tGBEfeFMersmjGr+xSKolpvIODOcUHfecgIWWdSSd6ExZ0JrVzt6YYkcfB4d0hboEo= X-Received: by 2002:aca:55d3:: with SMTP id j202-v6mr9780800oib.277.1540843356964; Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:02:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 16:02:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: dots@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f24b8e0579638cbf" Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Fwd: [Smart] SMART side-meeting at IETF 103 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:02:41 -0000 --000000000000f24b8e0579638cbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" SMART should be of interest to a number of DOTS participants, I hope you can attend. Best regards, Kathleen ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Mark O Date: Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:53 PM Subject: [Smart] SMART side-meeting at IETF 103 To: smart@irtf.org The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats) proposed RG will hold a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a side-meeting and not officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an interest in contributing to the proposed RG is welcome to attend. Agenda: Discussion of aims of SMART Relationship with other existing/proposed WGs/RGs CARIS2 workshop call for submissions Charter discussion First year goals The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursday 8th November in the Pagoda Room (4th Floor). Afterwards we may move to a bar, venue TBA! This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA queries to ncscinfoleg@ncsc.gov.uk -- Smart mailing list Smart@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart -- Best regards, Kathleen --000000000000f24b8e0579638cbf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

SMART should be of interest to a number of DOTS partic= ipants, I hope you can attend.

Best regards,
K= athleen
---------- Forwarded= message ---------
From: Mark O <Mark.O=3D40ncsc.gov.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>
Date: M= on, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:53 PM
Subject: [Smart] SMART side-meeting at IETF = 103
To: smart@irtf.org <smart@irtf.org>


The SMART (Stopping Malware And Researching Threats)= proposed RG will hold a planning meeting at IETF 103 in Bangkok. This is a= side-meeting and not officially on the IETF agenda, however anyone with an= interest in contributing to the proposed RG is welcome to attend.

=C2=A0

Agenda:
Discussion of aims of SMART

Relationship with other existing/proposed WGs/RGs=

CARIS2 workshop call for submissions

Charter discussion

First year goals

=C2=A0

The meeting will take place at 18:15-19:15 on Thursd= ay 8th November in the Pagoda Room (4th Floor). After= wards we may move to a bar, venue TBA!

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

This information is exempt under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)= and may be exempt under other UK information legislation. Refer any FOIA q= ueries to ncsc= infoleg@ncsc.gov.uk
--
Smart mailing list
Smart@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/smart


--

= Best regards,
Kathleen
--000000000000f24b8e0579638cbf-- From nobody Tue Oct 30 14:31:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2529D12D4F0 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:31:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char 9C hex): Received: ...s kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)\n\t\234by outgoing.mit[...] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j9jgmH9_7aGl for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu [18.9.25.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E58FC128D09 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:31:17 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1209190d-e79ff7000000728b-93-5bd8cda32241 Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-2.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 88.95.29323.4ADC8DB5; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w9ULVEcl026239 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:31:15 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) œby outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w9ULVBaQ030264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:31:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:31:11 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181030213111.GW45914@kduck.kaduk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrbvk7I1og2O3BSzWvjnC6sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujMl/b7AXbOKraNvn3cB4hLuLkZNDQsBE4t+x06xdjFwcQgJr mCS6rp1hgXCOMkr8nj6NDcL5yCTx4uc3FpAWFgFVib0b97CD2GwCKhIN3ZeZQWwRAUGJuSc/ MIHYwgJmEmc/TgWr5wVa8XzDJ2YIW1Di5MwnYHFmAS2JG/9eAtVzANnSEsv/cYCERQWUJfb2 HWKfwMg7C0nHLCQdsxA6FjAyr2KUTcmt0s1NzMwpTk3WLU5OzMtLLdI10svNLNFLTSndxAgO JEneHYz/7nodYhTgYFTi4bVIuxEtxJpYVlyZe4hRkoNJSZT3/Mfr0UJ8SfkplRmJxRnxRaU5 qcWHGCU4mJVEeKdWAJXzpiRWVqUW5cOkpDlYlMR5J7QsjhYSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJynBwKEnw LjkD1ChYlJqeWpGWmVOCkGbi4AQZzgM0fDJIDW9xQWJucWY6RP4Uo6KUOO92kIQASCKjNA+u FxTpEtn7a14xigO9Isw7C6SKB5gk4LpfAQ1mAhrMxQ42uCQRISXVwOg5L/7I7bg7wdntqZ9X nZ63/9z5zY3le2+d2r2qZIPQ8oe8+96FJ/osqvm//qGL4afFd/buvyJaeECzJdFifiGLm80T 9lXGl95fa05JEgib3iXUvvOA7PXYSxd3Tp/4Zl3LwT/Tdk1YOeP+NddENq+jF3/Vnd/+K/Fg XWDAQnk/0alBBbfMo/zZlFiKMxINtZiLihMBRhnjgM8CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] high-level questions about the signal channel X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 21:31:20 -0000 Hi folks, I'm still working through my AD review of the signal channel doc (my apologies for it taking so long!), and I have a couple of high-level questions that it seems worth talking about in parallel with the rest of my review. All of the CoAP resources are under .well-known/dots/, but we have requested/allocated a dedicated port for dots usage. It seems that we could assert that dots is the only service running on that port and get shorter URLs instead of using this prefix. I mostly assume that this was well-discussed before I started following the WG, so hopefully there is an easy pointer to the list archives that I can read up on. In a similar vein, using "cuid-" and "mid=" and such in uri-paths feels unusual to me (in that the assignment feels like a parameter that belongs in the request body as opposed to a path, or having a fixed tree hierarchy for "mid is a child of cuid is a child of cdid is a child of resource" and using what are effectively positional arguments. To be clear, I'm explicitly *not* objecting to this choice; I'd just appreciate a pointer to the previous discussion about it to help me understand better. What is the scope of a "DOTS session"? I see that the sid uri-path is only present on the session-configuration-affecting requests, but not for mitigations -- are mitigation requests associated with a session somehow? How does the DOTS session scope interplay with (D)TLS connections and sessions? There are also some places where response bodies seem to be described as if they are to be a subtree of the YANG module, where it's still a little clear to me exactly how to determine the structure/encoding to expect. But that may well be clarified in the parts I haven't gotten to, yet, so maybe I should just wait and see. Thanks! -Ben From nobody Wed Oct 31 00:56:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ABBA130DDD for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 00:56:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JT0qT0olv87k for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 00:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81BB4130DD9 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 00:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42lLJ30bgqz1yJN; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:56:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.66]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42lLJ26xr5zFpWM; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:56:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILMA1.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::95e2:eb4b:3053:fabf%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:56:18 +0100 From: To: Benjamin Kaduk , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] high-level questions about the signal channel Thread-Index: AQHUcJfq2/xvFyKG6E6KRUM+FirL9KU48qzQ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:56:18 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E03AF8C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20181030213111.GW45914@kduck.kaduk.org> In-Reply-To: <20181030213111.GW45914@kduck.kaduk.org> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] high-level questions about the signal channel X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 07:56:22 -0000 Hi Benjamin,=20 Please see inline.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Benjamin Kaduk > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 30 octobre 2018 22:31 > =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [Dots] high-level questions about the signal channel >=20 > Hi folks, >=20 > I'm still working through my AD review of the signal channel doc (my > apologies for it taking so long!), and I have a couple of high-level > questions that it seems worth talking about in parallel with the rest of = my > review. >=20 > All of the CoAP resources are under .well-known/dots/, but we have > requested/allocated a dedicated port for dots usage. It seems that we > could assert that dots is the only service running on that port and get > shorter URLs instead of using this prefix. I mostly assume that this was > well-discussed before I started following the WG, so hopefully there is a= n > easy pointer to the list archives that I can read up on. [Med] This was agreed in an interim in 10/2017 and implemented in -07. You = may check this thread for the more context: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/ar= ch/msg/dots/fbCvp2evaOD-DXuUgh2xK65dM7M =20 >=20 > In a similar vein, using "cuid-" and "mid=3D" and such in uri-p= aths > feels unusual to me (in that the assignment feels like a parameter that > belongs in the request body as opposed to a path, or having a fixed tree > hierarchy for "mid is a child of cuid is a child of cdid is a child of > resource" and using what are effectively positional arguments. To be > clear, I'm explicitly *not* objecting to this choice; I'd just appreciate= a > pointer to the previous discussion about it to help me understand better. [Med] We used to have those in the body, but we changed the design as a fix= to the issue discussed in this thread:=20 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/GzcUtlXZAfVXuBunC-ydVGl843w=20 >=20 > What is the scope of a "DOTS session"?=20 [Med] In short, please refer to https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots= -architecture-07#section-3.1.=20 I see that the sid uri-path is only > present on the session-configuration-affecting requests, but not for > mitigations -- are mitigation requests associated with a session somehow? [Med] sid is about a **configuration session**, that is exchanges that occu= r for configuration purposes. The draft says the following:=20 sid: Session Identifier is an identifier for the DOTS signal channel session configuration data represented > How does the DOTS session scope interplay with (D)TLS connections and > sessions? >=20 > There are also some places where response bodies seem to be described as = if > they are to be a subtree of the YANG module, where it's still a little > clear to me exactly how to determine the structure/encoding to expect. B= ut > that may well be clarified in the parts I haven't gotten to, yet, so mayb= e > I should just wait and see. [Med] JSON diagnostic notation is used. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > -Ben >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Wed Oct 31 19:00:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC83130DC7 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:00:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2PZsGRt9m1fh for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 146CC130DF6 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 19:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B0C4921D98164 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2018 02:00:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 1 Nov 2018 02:00:37 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.55]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:00:32 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Integration Technology Research Dept)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Benjamin Kaduk" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] high-level questions about the signal channel Thread-Index: AQHUcJfuzpoBMqU4zEqIAYRcIykBcaU4dxwAgAGzHYA= Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 02:00:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181030213111.GW45914@kduck.kaduk.org> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E03AF8C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E03AF8C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgaGlnaC1sZXZlbCBxdWVzdGlvbnMgYWJv?= =?utf-8?q?ut_the_signal_channel?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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QmVuDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KPiBEb3RzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0K From nobody Wed Oct 31 20:50:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477BF130DCD for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:50:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.771 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2018 03:50:00 -0000 SGkgRnJhbmssDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdl LS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogRG90cyA8ZG90cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2Yg WGlhbGlhbmcgKEZyYW5rLCBOZXR3b3JrDQo+IEludGVncmF0aW9uIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kgUmVzZWFy Y2ggRGVwdCkNCj4gU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIE5vdmVtYmVyIDEsIDIwMTggNzozMSBBTQ0KPiBU bzogbW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbTsgQmVuamFtaW4gS2FkdWsgPGthZHVrQG1p dC5lZHU+DQo+IENjOiBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFtEb3RzXSDnrZTlpI06IGhp Z2gtbGV2ZWwgcXVlc3Rpb25zIGFib3V0IHRoZSBzaWduYWwgY2hhbm5lbA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0K PiBIaSwNCj4gUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBteSBjb21tZW50IGlubGluZToNCj4gDQo+IC0tLS0t6YKu5Lu2 5Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCj4g5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBEb3RzIFttYWlsdG86ZG90cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYu b3JnXSDku6PooagNCj4gbW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbQ0KPiDlj5HpgIHml7bp l7Q6IDIwMTjlubQxMOaciDMx5pelIDE1OjU2DQo+IOaUtuS7tuS6ujogQmVuamFtaW4gS2FkdWsg 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