From nobody Fri Mar 1 13:20:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157DC13127E; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 13:10:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: dots@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.92.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155147461908.6101.10681893925606818027.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 13:10:19 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] dots - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 21:10:38 -0000 Dear Roman Danyliw, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. dots Session 1 (2:00 requested) Thursday, 28 March 2019, Morning Session II 1050-1220 Room Name: Athens/Barcelona size: 100 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/sessions/dots.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: DDoS Open Threat Signaling Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Roman Danyliw Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: mile i2nsf sacm saag secdispatch ace Second Priority: opsawg People who must be present: Roman Danyliw Liang Xia Benjamin Kaduk Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Mar 4 08:02:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578A312DD85; 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Mon, 4 Mar 2019 09:01:47 -0700 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2840.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.234.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1665.18; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:01:48 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1665.020; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:01:48 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Benjamin Kaduk" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel) Thread-Index: AQHUzz5BCXFDawydokCSl6Px8wMDQaX1B8jwgAAmWzCABnf3YA== Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:01:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA0EC85@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA20112@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190215150458.GV56447@kduck.mit.edu> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA20406@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190218162322.GI24387@kduck.mit.edu> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA21AC0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190227155729.GL53396@kduck.mit.edu> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA2680B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA26AD5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA26AD5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 16:07:52 -0000 Please go ahead and publish -- this is good enough for me to be willing to start the IETF LC, though we will probably tweak it a bit more still. (I'd like to keep the data channel and signal channel docs together through IETF LC and IESG evaluation to the extent possible.) -Ben On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 04:01:47PM +0000, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: > Updated text looks good to me. > @Ben - Please let us know if the proposed update addresses your comments, we would like to publish the changes. > > Cheers, > -Tiru > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 6:39 PM > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy ; > > Benjamin Kaduk > > Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf-dots- > > signal-channel) > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > > > > Re-, > > > > I rearranged the text as follows: > > > > OLD: > > Section 8 of [RFC8446] discusses some mechanisms to implement to > > limit the impact of replay attacks on 0-RTT data. If the DOTS > > server accepts 0-RTT, it MUST implement one of these mechanisms. > > A DOTS server can reject 0-RTT by sending a TLS HelloRetryRequest. > > The DOTS signal channel messages sent as early data by the DOTS > > client are idempotent requests. As a reminder, Message ID > > (Section 3 of [RFC7252]) is changed each time a new CoAP request > > is sent, and the Token (Section 5.3.1 of [RFC7252]) is randomized > > in each CoAP request. The DOTS server(s) can use Message ID and > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay of early > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once. Furthermore, 'mid' > > value is monotonically increased by the DOTS client for each > > mitigation request, attackers replaying mitigation requests with > > lower numeric 'mid' values and overlapping scopes with mitigation > > requests having higher numeric 'mid' values will be rejected > > systematically by the DOTS server. Likewise, 'sid' value is > > monotonically increased by the DOTS client for each configuration > > session, attackers replaying configuration requests with lower > > numeric 'sid' values will be rejected by the DOTS server if it > > maintains a higher numeric 'sid' value for this DOTS client. > > > > NEW: > > Section 8 of [RFC8446] discusses some mechanisms to implement to > > limit the impact of replay attacks on 0-RTT data. If the DOTS > > server accepts 0-RTT, it MUST implement one of these mechanisms to > > prevent replay at the TLS layer. A DOTS server can reject 0-RTT > > by sending a TLS HelloRetryRequest. > > > > The DOTS signal channel messages sent as early data by the DOTS > > client are idempotent requests. As a reminder, the Message ID > > (Section 3 of [RFC7252]) is changed each time a new CoAP request > > is sent, and the Token (Section 5.3.1 of [RFC7252]) is randomized > > in each CoAP request. The DOTS server(s) MUST use the Message ID > > and the Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay > > of early data at the application layer, and accept 0-RTT data at > > most once from the same DOTS client. This anti-replay defense > > requires sharing the Message ID and the Token in the 0-RTT data > > between DOTS servers in the DOTS server domain. DOTS servers do > > not rely on transport coordinates to identify DOTS peers. As > > specified in Section 4.4.1, DOTS servers couple the DOTS signal > > channel sessions using the DOTS client identity and optionally the > > 'cdid' parameter value. Furthermore, 'mid' value is monotonically > > increased by the DOTS client for each mitigation request, > > attackers replaying mitigation requests with lower numeric 'mid' > > values and overlapping scopes with mitigation requests having > > higher numeric 'mid' values will be rejected systematically by the > > DOTS server. Likewise, 'sid' value is monotonically increased by > > the DOTS client for each configuration request (Section 4.5.2), > > attackers replaying configuration requests with lower numeric > > 'sid' values will be rejected by the DOTS server if it maintains a > > higher numeric 'sid' value for this DOTS client. > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > Envoyé : jeudi 28 février 2019 11:50 > > > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Benjamin Kaduk Cc : > > > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org Objet : RE: > > > [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf- > > > dots-signal-channel) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Dots On Behalf Of > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 1:48 PM > > > > To: Benjamin Kaduk > > > > Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; Konda, Tirumaleswar > > > > Reddy ; dots@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of > > > > draft-ietf- > > > dots- > > > > signal-channel) > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > > > links > > > or > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > content is > > > safe. > > > > > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > De : Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] Envoyé : mercredi 27 > > > > > février 2019 16:58 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN Cc : Konda, > > > > > Tirumaleswar Reddy; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; > > > > > dots@ietf.org > > > > > Objet : Re: Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: [Dots] AD review of > > > > > draft-ietf- > > > > > dots-signal-channel) > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 07:59:29AM +0000, > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > Okay. BTW, it is looking like this is the last topic to resolve > > > > > before starting IETF LC. It's probably worth s/the exponent is > > > > > 2/the base of the exponent is 2/ in the next rev, though, just as > > > > > a minor nit- > > > fix. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > > De : Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] Envoyé : lundi 18 > > > > > > > février 2019 17:23 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN Cc : Konda, > > > > > > > Tirumaleswar Reddy; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf..org; > > > > > > > dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > Objet : Re: Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: [Dots] AD review of > > > > > > > draft-ietf- > > > > > > > dots-signal-channel) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 03:36:05PM +0000, > > > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to discuss this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder whether you can consider putting the document in > > > > > > > > the IETF LC > > > > > for > > > > > > > now. If it happen that we need to modify the 0-RTT text, we > > > > > > > will handle > > > > > it as > > > > > > > other IETF LC comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would normally be pretty amenable to starting IETF LC and > > > > > > > continuing discussion; it's just for this issue in particular > > > > > > > that I seem to be the main person on the IESG that enforces > > > > > > > the "application profile for 0-RTT data" requirement, so it > > > > > > > would feel rather odd to go forward in this > > > > > case. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luckily, I spent some time this weekend reading RFC 7252 and > > > > > > > have some substantive comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The key oberservation here seems to be that the Message ID is > > > > > > > scoped per endpoint, and replays can come from arbitrary addresses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically, we recall that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The DOTS signal channel is layered on existing standards > > > > > > > (Figure > > > 3). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +---------------------+ > > > > > > > | DOTS Signal Channel | > > > > > > > +---------------------+ > > > > > > > | CoAP | > > > > > > > +----------+----------+ > > > > > > > | TLS | DTLS | > > > > > > > +----------+----------+ > > > > > > > | TCP | UDP | > > > > > > > +----------+----------+ > > > > > > > | IP | > > > > > > > +---------------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We note that CoAP is using the IP address or "DTLS session" > > > > > > > (arguably a poorly chosen term) to identify a CoAP association > > > > > > > and that Message IDs > > > > > are > > > > > > > only used within the scope of such an association, it seems > > > > > > > pretty clear that an attacker able to replay TLS 1.3 0-RTT > > > > > > > data will slice off the top three lines of this figure and > > > > > > > swap out the TCP/UDP/IP layers. In the absence of DTLS > > > > > > > connection IDs, my understanding is that the "DTLS > > > > > session" > > > > > > > is identified solely by the transport connection, just as for > > > > > > > coap-not-s, so by spoofing the source address, the attacker > > > > > > > causes the replayed 0-RTT data (and thus, CoAP request) to be > > > > > > > interpreted as a new incoming coaps connection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given that Message ID is only 16 bits and the servers > > > > > > > accepting 0-RTT > > > > > data > > > > > > > have potential to be quite busy, it does not seem workable to > > > > > > > attempt to use the incoming Message IDs as globally unique > > > > > > > replay defense, as the > > > > > risk > > > > > > > of collision would be pretty large. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The replay detection relies on both Message ID and Token. > > > > > > > > > > In stock CoAP, the Message ID and Token are used only with the > > > > > context of a specific transport association. > > > > > > > > [Med] Hmm...RFC7252 defines an endpoint as follows: > > > > > > > > The specific definition of an endpoint depends on the transport being > > > > used for CoAP. For the transports defined in this specification, the > > > > endpoint is identified depending on the security mode used (see > > > > Section 9): With no security, the endpoint is solely identified by an > > > > IP address and a UDP port number. With other security modes, the > > > > endpoint is identified as defined by the security mode. > > > > > > > > DOTS adheres to that definition: it assumes that an endpoint is not > > > identified by > > > > its transport coordinates but with its identity. > > > > > > > > Furthermore, the correlation between sessions is clearly mentioned > > > > in the > > > text: > > > > > > > > The DOTS server couples the DOTS signal channel sessions using the > > > > DOTS client identity and optionally the 'cdid' parameter value, and > > > > the DOTS server uses 'mid' and 'cuid' Uri-Path parameter values to > > > > detect duplicate mitigation requests. > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to use them for (D)TLS 1.3 replay > > > > > defense, we need to expand that context to a broader scope, and > > > > > direct the server to check the Message ID/Token globally (or at > > > > > least within the scope of a given 'cuid'/'cdid'). Since this > > > > > would reflect a divergence from normal CoAP, if we are going to > > > > > rely on this sort of behavior, we must call it out very loudly as specific to > > DOTS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We can make this change if it helps: > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > The DOTS server(s) can use Message ID and > > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay of early > > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once. > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > The DOTS server(s) can use Message ID and > > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay of early > > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once from the same DOTS client. > > > > DOTS servers do not rely on transport coordinates to > > > > identify its peers. As a reminder, DOTS servers couples the > > > > DOTS > > > signal > > > > channel sessions > > > > using the DOTS client identity and optionally the 'cdid' > > > > parameter > > > value. > > > > > > I propose to update the text as follows: > > > > > > The DOTS server(s) can use the Message ID and > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay of early > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once from the same DOTS client. > > > This anti-replay defense requires sharing the Message ID and > > > Token in the 0-RTT data > > > between DOTS servers in the DOTS server domain. > > > DOTS servers do not rely on transport coordinates to > > > identify its peers. As a reminder, DOTS servers couples the DOTS > > > signal channel sessions > > > using the DOTS client identity and optionally the 'cdid' > > > parameter value. > > > > > > -Tiru From nobody Mon Mar 4 22:26:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3610130FD0; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 22:26:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yhFCyTzAHIAH; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 22:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0E62130FAB; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 22:26:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1396A1A1AB61E5647278; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:26:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:26:21 +0000 Received: from lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) by lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:26:21 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1591.10 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:26:21 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.215]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:26:15 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: "draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Hi, authors. 3 comments: Thread-Index: AdTTG1tETE/2KpxERZ6OuyfVBRtPrg== Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:26:14 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D756Bdggemm511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 06:26:32 -0000 --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D756Bdggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi authors, I have 3 general comments as below: 1. Can you clarify the DOTS server administrative domain a little bit= ? What is the goal we define it? 2. Will this document open a door to make signal channel to cover the= functions of data channel more and more? 3. I can accept the situation of changing the accept-list to the "dea= ctivate" status, but is it a common use case we need to change a deny-list = to the "immediate" status? Thanks! B.R. Frank --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D756Bdggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi authors,

I have 3 general comments as be= low:

1= .   &= nbsp;   Can you clarify the DOT= S server administrative domain a little bit? What is the goal we define it?=

=  

2= .   &= nbsp;   Will this document open= a door to make signal channel to cover the functions of data channel more = and more?

 =

3= .   &= nbsp;   I can accept the situat= ion of changing the accept-list to the “deactivate” status, but= is it a common use case we need to change a deny-list to the “immedi= ate” status?

 =

Thanks!

 

 

B.R.

Frank

--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D756Bdggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Tue Mar 5 00:00:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F06130FB1; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 00:00:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pOF66HU5GLSk; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 00:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9333130FD1; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 00:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:6::f]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 6B00625F6BE; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 17:00:40 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1551772840; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=YSae3FkfDgi78hRhSjDPmkQs3oQaXNdigpkLpqkC6p0=; b=Ey69gFtuVgMmrFhuBHNv+e7uIuaFh/4pZh07jymUKFJxSTQk+6jqICj1v+fF2iPYtCXL01 cCD0KOzLvemCGV9LPnqJvKJ/3W9SO9lPraeeRHNNHkwbxbJxSH4erRNtkdMNvxjmStpCq4 5TWfCuIyUyywMYWwa6RPIxchwd68zL4= Received: from macbook-pro-17.lv4.nttv6.jp (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 60E62759007; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 17:00:40 +0900 (JST) To: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" , "draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org" Cc: "dots@ietf.org" References: From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 17:00:44 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A41A41F03D1B21A77ECA8C41" Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: guri.nttv6.jp; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kaname@nttv6.jp Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 08:00:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A41A41F03D1B21A77ECA8C41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frank, On 2019/03/05 15:26, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote: > > Hi authors, > > I have 3 general comments as below: > > 1.Can you clarify the DOTS server administrative domain a little bit? What is the goal we define it? > We'll clarify it and update the draft. > 2.Will this document open a door to make signal channel to cover the functions of data channel more and more? > > 3.I can accept the situation of changing the accept-list to the “deactivate” status, but is it a common use case we need to change a deny-list to the “immediate” status? > Regarding with 2 and 3, I can add one usecase to the draft. When a DOTS client noticed that a system in its domain is being attacked, it will try to ask for help to a DOTS server in its transit provider (or somewhere in upstream networks). Sometimes it is hard to get any information from the DOTS server if the upstream is saturated by attack traffic. It is good strategy to enable ACL(set by data-channel) immediately first via signal-channel. Especially if it is rate-limit ACL, it will make a room for further communication over signal-channel. Then, it will send mitigation request to the DOTS server. This kind of procedure is really used by manual operation. Combination of ACL-based filtering and mitigation appliance is cost effective. The proposed draft (signal-control-filtering) enable automation of it. regards, Kaname > Thanks! > > B.R. > > Frank > --------------A41A41F03D1B21A77ECA8C41 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frank,


On 2019/03/05 15:26, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote:

Hi authors,

I have 3 general comments as below:

1.       Can you clarify the DOTS server administrative domain a little bit? What is the goal we define it?

We'll clarify it and update the draft.

 

2.       Will this document open a door to make signal channel to cover the functions of data channel more and more?

 

3.       I can accept the situation of changing the accept-list to the “deactivate” status, but is it a common use case we need to change a deny-list to the “immediate” status?

Regarding with 2 and 3, I can add one usecase to the draft.
When a DOTS client noticed that a system in its domain is being attacked, it will try to ask for help to a DOTS server in its transit provider (or somewhere in upstream networks).
Sometimes it is hard to get any information from the DOTS server if the upstream is saturated by attack traffic.
It is good strategy to enable ACL(set by data-channel) immediately first via signal-channel. Especially if it is rate-limit ACL, it will make a room for further communication over signal-channel.
Then, it will send mitigation request to the DOTS server.
This kind of procedure is really used by manual operation. Combination of ACL-based filtering and mitigation appliance is cost effective.
The proposed draft (signal-control-filtering) enable automation of it.

regards,
Kaname


 

Thanks!

 

 

B.R.

Frank


--------------A41A41F03D1B21A77ECA8C41-- From nobody Tue Mar 5 00:24:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04673130FE1; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 00:24:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ob5QK-jO553t; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 00:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AA82130FDF; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 00:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4EF68F51688CC809A743; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 08:24:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 08:23:59 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.215]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 16:23:51 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: kaname nishizuka , "draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Hi, authors. 3 comments: Thread-Index: AdTTG1tETE/2KpxERZ6OuyfVBRtPrv//lj4A//94ORA= Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 08:23:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D75C3dggemm511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogSGksIGF1dGhvcnMuIDMgY29tbWVudHM6?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 08:24:05 -0000 --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D75C3dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgS2FuYW1lLA0KSSBhbSBsb29raW5nIGZvcndhcmQgdG8geW91ciB1cGRhdGUgZHJhZnQgKHBv c3NpYmx5IG1vcmUgdmFsaWQgdXNlIGNhc2VzKSB0byBjbGFyaWZ5IHRoZW0uDQoNClNvbWUgcmVz cG9uc2UgYXJlIGlubGluZToNCg0KVGhhbmtzIQ0KDQpCLlIuDQpGcmFuaw0KDQq3orz+yMs6IGth bmFtZSBuaXNoaXp1a2EgW21haWx0bzprYW5hbWVAbnR0djYuanBdDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTq M9TCNcjVIDE2OjAxDQrK1bz+yMs6IFhpYWxpYW5nIChGcmFuaywgTmV0d29yayBTdGFuZGFyZCAm IFBhdGVudCBEZXB0KSA8ZnJhbmsueGlhbGlhbmdAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IGRyYWZ0LW5pc2hpenVr YS1kb3RzLXNpZ25hbC1jb250cm9sLWZpbHRlcmluZy5hdXRob3JzQGlldGYub3JnDQqzrcvNOiBk b3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBSZTogSGksIGF1dGhvcnMuIDMgY29tbWVudHM6DQoNCkhpIEZy YW5rLA0KDQpPbiAyMDE5LzAzLzA1IDE1OjI2LCBYaWFsaWFuZyAoRnJhbmssIE5ldHdvcmsgU3Rh bmRhcmQgJiBQYXRlbnQgRGVwdCkgd3JvdGU6DQpIaSBhdXRob3JzLA0KSSBoYXZlIDMgZ2VuZXJh bCBjb21tZW50cyBhcyBiZWxvdzoNCg0KMS4gICAgICAgQ2FuIHlvdSBjbGFyaWZ5IHRoZSBET1RT IHNlcnZlciBhZG1pbmlzdHJhdGl2ZSBkb21haW4gYSBsaXR0bGUgYml0PyBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBn b2FsIHdlIGRlZmluZSBpdD8NCldlJ2xsIGNsYXJpZnkgaXQgYW5kIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUgZHJhZnQu DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KMi4gICAgICAgV2lsbCB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IG9wZW4gYSBkb29yIHRvIG1h a2Ugc2lnbmFsIGNoYW5uZWwgdG8gY292ZXIgdGhlIGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBvZiBkYXRhIGNoYW5uZWwg bW9yZSBhbmQgbW9yZT8NCg0KW0ZyYW5rXTogdGhpcyBpcyBqdXN0IG15IHBlcnNvbmFsIGNvbmNl cm4gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGN1dC1vZmYgbGluZSBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSAyIERPVFMgY2hhbm5lbHMuIE1h eWJlIGl0IGRvZXMgbm90IG1hdHRlciBhdCBhbGwuIEkgd2FudCB0byBoZWFyIG1vcmUgb3Bpbmlv bnMuDQoNCg0KDQozLiAgICAgICBJIGNhbiBhY2NlcHQgdGhlIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBvZiBjaGFuZ2lu ZyB0aGUgYWNjZXB0LWxpc3QgdG8gdGhlIKGwZGVhY3RpdmF0ZaGxIHN0YXR1cywgYnV0IGlzIGl0 IGEgY29tbW9uIHVzZSBjYXNlIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gY2hhbmdlIGEgZGVueS1saXN0IHRvIHRoZSCh sGltbWVkaWF0ZaGxIHN0YXR1cz8NCltGcmFua106IHNvcnJ5LCBteSBxdWVzdGlvbiBleHByZXNz ZXMgd3JvbmdseS4gSXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIKGwaXMgaXQgYSBjb21tb24gdXNlIGNhc2Ugd2UgbmVl ZCB0byBjaGFuZ2UgYSBkZW55LWxpc3QgdG8gdGhlIKGwZGVhY3RpdmF0ZaGxIHN0YXR1cz+hsS4g TXkgb25seSBjb25jZXJuIGhlcmUgaXMgd2hldGhlciB5b3VyIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBmb3IgdGhpcyBl eHRlbnNpdmUgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGlzIHRvbyBsaW1pdGVkLg0KUmVnYXJkaW5nIHdpdGggMiBhbmQg MywgSSBjYW4gYWRkIG9uZSB1c2VjYXNlIHRvIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4NCldoZW4gYSBET1RTIGNsaWVu dCBub3RpY2VkIHRoYXQgYSBzeXN0ZW0gaW4gaXRzIGRvbWFpbiBpcyBiZWluZyBhdHRhY2tlZCwg aXQgd2lsbCB0cnkgdG8gYXNrIGZvciBoZWxwIHRvIGEgRE9UUyBzZXJ2ZXIgaW4gaXRzIHRyYW5z aXQgcHJvdmlkZXIgKG9yIHNvbWV3aGVyZSBpbiB1cHN0cmVhbSBuZXR3b3JrcykuDQpTb21ldGlt ZXMgaXQgaXMgaGFyZCB0byBnZXQgYW55IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGZyb20gdGhlIERPVFMgc2VydmVy IGlmIHRoZSB1cHN0cmVhbSBpcyBzYXR1cmF0ZWQgYnkgYXR0YWNrIHRyYWZmaWMuDQpJdCBpcyBn b29kIHN0cmF0ZWd5IHRvIGVuYWJsZSBBQ0woc2V0IGJ5IGRhdGEtY2hhbm5lbCkgaW1tZWRpYXRl bHkgZmlyc3QgdmlhIHNpZ25hbC1jaGFubmVsLiBFc3BlY2lhbGx5IGlmIGl0IGlzIHJhdGUtbGlt aXQgQUNMLCBpdCB3aWxsIG1ha2UgYSByb29tIGZvciBmdXJ0aGVyIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb24gb3Zl ciBzaWduYWwtY2hhbm5lbC4NClRoZW4sIGl0IHdpbGwgc2VuZCBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIHJlcXVlc3Qg dG8gdGhlIERPVFMgc2VydmVyLg0KW0ZyYW5rXTogdGhpcyB1c2UgY2FzZXMgZXhwbGFpbnMgbXkg cHJldmlvdXNseSB3cm9uZyBxdWVzdGlvbn5+LCB0aGFua3MhDQoNClRoaXMga2luZCBvZiBwcm9j ZWR1cmUgaXMgcmVhbGx5IHVzZWQgYnkgbWFudWFsIG9wZXJhdGlvbi4gQ29tYmluYXRpb24gb2Yg QUNMLWJhc2VkIGZpbHRlcmluZyBhbmQgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiBhcHBsaWFuY2UgaXMgY29zdCBlZmZl Y3RpdmUuDQpUaGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgZHJhZnQgKHNpZ25hbC1jb250cm9sLWZpbHRlcmluZykgZW5h YmxlIGF1dG9tYXRpb24gb2YgaXQuDQoNCnJlZ2FyZHMsDQpLYW5hbWUNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpUaGFu a3MhDQoNCg0KQi5SLg0KRnJhbmsNCg0K --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D75C3dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kana= me,

I am lo= oking forward to your update draft (possibly more valid use cases) to clari= fy them.

&n= bsp;

Some re= sponse are inline:

&n= bsp;

Thanks!=

&n= bsp;

B.R.

Frank

&n= bsp;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:<= /span> kaname nishizuka [mailto:kaname@nttv6.jp]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA3=D4=C25=C8=D5 16:01
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) <frank.xial= iang@huawei.com>; draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@= ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: dots@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: Hi, authors. 3 comments:

 

Hi Frank,

On 2019/03/05 15:26, Xialiang (= Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote:

Hi authors,

I have 3 general comments as be= low:

1= .   &= nbsp;   Can you clarify the DOT= S server administrative domain a little bit? What is the goal we define it?=

We'll clarify it and update the draft.


=  

2= .   &= nbsp;   Will this document open= a door to make signal channel to cover the functions of data channel more = and more?

 

[Frank]: this is just my perso= nal concern about the cut-off line between the 2 DOTS channels. Maybe it do= es not matter at all. I want to hear more opinions.

 =

3= .   &= nbsp;   I can accept the situat= ion of changing the accept-list to the =A1=B0deactivate=A1=B1 status, but i= s it a common use case we need to change a deny-list to the =A1=B0immediate= =A1=B1 status?

[Frank]: sorry, my question ex= presses wrongly. It should be =A1=B0is it a com= mon use case we need to change a deny-list to the =A1=B0deactivate=A1=B1 st= atus?=A1=B1. My only concern here is whether your use cases for this extensive mechanis= m is too limited.

Regarding with 2 and 3, I can add one usecase to the draft.
When a DOTS client noticed that a system in its domain is being attacked, i= t will try to ask for help to a DOTS server in its transit provider (or som= ewhere in upstream networks).
Sometimes it is hard to get any information from the DOTS server if the ups= tream is saturated by attack traffic.
It is good strategy to enable ACL(set by data-channel) immediately first vi= a signal-channel. Especially if it is rate-limit ACL, it will make a room f= or further communication over signal-channel.
Then, it will send mitigation request to the DOTS server.

[Frank]: this use cases explains my prev= iously wrong question~~, thanks!


This kind of procedure is really used by manual operation. Combination of A= CL-based filtering and mitigation appliance is cost effective.
The proposed draft (signal-control-filtering) enable automation of it.

regards,
Kaname



 =

Thanks!

 

 

B.R.

Frank

 

--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D75C3dggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Tue Mar 5 02:30:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3255B13106E; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 02:29:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KSkDAvaIcYRh; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 02:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CEB81293B1; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 02:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44DCnZ3V7Mz202b; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 11:29:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.32]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44DCnZ2TzgzyQ3; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 11:29:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::2c53:f99a:e2a9:19c6%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0435.000; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 11:29:54 +0100 From: To: kaname nishizuka , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" , "draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments: Thread-Index: AQHU0ymQmd9Jij2iakS1ev3UBCSnzaX80wWA Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 10:29:53 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:29:58 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Frank, Kaname, Please see inline. Cheers, Med De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de kaname nishizuka Envoy=E9 : mardi 5 mars 2019 09:01 =C0 : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept); draft-nishizuka-dot= s-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org Cc : dots@ietf.org Objet : Re: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments: Hi Frank, On 2019/03/05 15:26, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote= : Hi authors, I have 3 general comments as below: 1. Can you clarify the DOTS server administrative domain a little bit= ? What is the goal we define it? We'll clarify it and update the draft. [Med] This is what is called "DOTS server domain" in DOTS drafts. The notio= n of "administrative domain" is already used/discussed in the arch I-D. 2. Will this document open a door to make signal channel to cover the= functions of data channel more and more? [Med] No. We do already have this text: A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal channel if no attack (mitigation) is active; such requests MUST be discarded by the DOTS server with 4.00 (Bad Request). By default, ACL-related operations are achieved using the DOTS data channel [I-D.ietf-dots-data-channel] when no a= ttack is ongoing. The draft focuses only on tweaking the status of **existing** filters. 3. I can accept the situation of changing the accept-list to the "dea= ctivate" status, but is it a common use case we need to change a deny-list = to the "immediate" status? Regarding with 2 and 3, I can add one usecase to the draft. When a DOTS client noticed that a system in its domain is being attacked, i= t will try to ask for help to a DOTS server in its transit provider (or som= ewhere in upstream networks). Sometimes it is hard to get any information from the DOTS server if the ups= tream is saturated by attack traffic. It is good strategy to enable ACL(set by data-channel) immediately first vi= a signal-channel. Especially if it is rate-limit ACL, it will make a room f= or further communication over signal-channel. Then, it will send mitigation request to the DOTS server. This kind of procedure is really used by manual operation. Combination of A= CL-based filtering and mitigation appliance is cost effective. The proposed draft (signal-control-filtering) enable automation of it. regards, Kaname Thanks! B.R. Frank --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Frank, Kaname,

 

Please see inline.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Dots= [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de kaname nishizuka
Envoy=E9 : mardi 5 mars 2019 09:01
=C0 : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept); dra= ft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org
Cc : dots@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments:

 =

Hi Frank,

On 2019/03/05 15:26, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standa= rd & Patent Dept) wrote:

Hi authors,

I have 3 general comments as be= low:

1.  = ;     Can you clarify the DOTS server administrative = domain a little bit? What is the goal we define it?

We'll clarify it and update the draft.

=  

[Med] This is what is calle=
d “DOTS server domain” in DOTS drafts. The notion of “administrative domain” is already used/discussed in the arch I-D.

=  

2.  = ;     Will this document open a door to make signal c= hannel to cover the functions of data channel more and more?

   A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filte= ring control over DOTS signal 

   channel if no attack (mitigation) is=
 active; such requests MUST be
   discarded by the DOTS server with 4.=
00 (Bad Request).  By default,
   ACL-related operations are achieved =
using the DOTS data channel
   [I-D=
.ietf-dots-data-channel] when no attack is =
ongoing.
 
The draft focuses only on tweaking the status of =
**existing** filters.  

 =

3.  = ;     I can accept the situation of changing the acce= pt-list to the “deactivate” status, but is it a common use case= we need to change a deny-list to the “immediate” status?

Regarding with 2 and 3, I can add one usecase to the draft.
When a DOTS client noticed that a system in its domain is being attacked, i= t will try to ask for help to a DOTS server in its transit provider (or som= ewhere in upstream networks).
Sometimes it is hard to get any information from the DOTS server if the ups= tream is saturated by attack traffic.
It is good strategy to enable ACL(set by data-channel) immediately first vi= a signal-channel. Especially if it is rate-limit ACL, it will make a room f= or further communication over signal-channel.
Then, it will send mitigation request to the DOTS server.
This kind of procedure is really used by manual operation. Combination of A= CL-based filtering and mitigation appliance is cost effective.
The proposed draft (signal-control-filtering) enable automation of it.

regards,
Kaname



 =

Thanks!

 

 

B.R.

Frank

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5OPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Tue Mar 5 02:41:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4974B131006; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 02:41:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ng9Ay5xM_ljN; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 02:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BC4D1200B3; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 02:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 93E95D44883A39D38A5C; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 10:41:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 10:41:37 +0000 Received: from lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) by lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 10:41:37 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.41) by lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1591.10 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 10:41:37 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.215]) by dggemm424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 18:38:32 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "kaname nishizuka" , "draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Hi, authors. 3 comments: Thread-Index: AdTTG1tETE/2KpxERZ6OuyfVBRtPrv//lj4AgAAprID//3e18A== Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 10:38:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D76C2dggemm511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSGksIGF1dGhvcnMuIDMgY29tbWVudHM6?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 10:41:43 -0000 --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D76C2dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTWVkLA0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiwgd2UgYXJlIG9uIHRoZSBzYW1l IHBhZ2Ugbm93Lg0KDQpCLlIuDQpGcmFuaw0KDQrlj5Hku7bkuro6IG1vaGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWly QG9yYW5nZS5jb20gW21haWx0bzptb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tXQ0K5Y+R6YCB 5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE55bm0M+aciDXml6UgMTg6MzANCuaUtuS7tuS6ujoga2FuYW1lIG5pc2hpenVr YSA8a2FuYW1lQG50dHY2LmpwPjsgWGlhbGlhbmcgKEZyYW5rLCBOZXR3b3JrIFN0YW5kYXJkICYg UGF0ZW50IERlcHQpIDxmcmFuay54aWFsaWFuZ0BodWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgZHJhZnQtbmlzaGl6dWth LWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNvbnRyb2wtZmlsdGVyaW5nLmF1dGhvcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCuaKhOmAgTog ZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K5Li76aKYOiBSRTogW0RvdHNdIEhpLCBhdXRob3JzLiAzIGNvbW1lbnRz Og0KDQpIaSBGcmFuaywgS2FuYW1lLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0K 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PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwv aHRtbD4NCg== --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12C9D76C2dggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Tue Mar 5 03:31:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD571310BE; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B_n83YRjnEPg; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C576131072; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessfw99-sesbfw99-92.ericsson.net ([192.176.1.92] helo=[10.156.247.140]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1h18II-0003zt-Cb; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 12:31:34 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 12:31:32 +0100 Cc: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , "draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" , The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1368787E-C78D-417A-972D-95CF9CA790EB@kuehlewind.net> References: <155068522853.31498.10686203344983870104.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA23122@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <66BB8E3D-DEB6-43AC-AAEB-B6EB1A248865@kuehlewind.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA232A6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6EFF6377-02A4-4D0B-BCF2-313FDB3B18B8@kuehlewind.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA2346F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1551785500;377a713f; X-HE-SMSGID: 1h18II-0003zt-Cb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?dots-requirements-18=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:31:44 -0000 Hi Tiru, thanks, the proposed text works well for me! Mirja > Am 21.02.2019 um 15:58 schrieb Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy = : >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 8:10 PM >> To: Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) >> Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; frank.xialiang@huawei.com; dots@ietf.org; = The IESG >> ; draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [Dots] Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's Discuss on = draft-ietf-dots-requirements- >> 18: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>=20 >> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click = links or >> open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content = is safe. >>=20 >> Re-, >>=20 >> My point is that combining RFC8085 and deployments where timers can = be >> controlled/discovered is sufficient to fulfill the requirement. >>=20 >> Of course, this does not guarantee that bindings are kept active if a = NAT/FW >> assigns timers of less than 15 seconds...which is fair. The = requirement does not >> ask for such guarantee. >=20 > Agreed, I propose the following update to capture the discussion and = addresses the comment: >=20 > Channel Health Monitoring: DOTS agents MUST support exchange of = heartbeat messages over the signal channel to monitor channel health. = These keepalives serve the purpose to maintain any on-path NAT or = Firewall bindings to avoid cryptographic handshake for new mitigation = requests. The heartbeat interval during active mitigation could be = negotiable based on NAT/Firewall characteristics. Absent information = about the NAT/Firewall characteristics, DOTS agent needs to ensure its = on-path NAT or Firewall bindings do not expire, by using the keep-alive = frequency discussed in Section 3.5 of [RFC8085]. >=20 > Cheers > -Tiru >=20 >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Med >>=20 >>> -----Message d'origine----- >>> De : Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) [mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net] Envoy=C3=A9 = : >>> jeudi 21 f=C3=A9vrier 2019 14:46 =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN = Cc : >>> dots-chairs@ietf.org; frank.xialiang@huawei.com; dots@ietf.org; The >>> IESG; draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org >>> Objet : Re: [Dots] Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's Discuss on >>> draft-ietf-dots-requirements- >>> 18: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>=20 >>> Hi Med, >>>=20 >>> please see below. >>>=20 >>>> Am 21.02.2019 um 13:17 schrieb mohamed.boucadair@orange.com: >>>>=20 >>>>>>> 2) Also on this text in SIG-004: >>>>>>> "The heartbeat interval during active mitigation could be >>>>>>> negotiable, but MUST be frequent enough to maintain any = on-path >>>>>>> NAT or Firewall bindings during mitigation. When TCP is used = as >>>>>>> transport, the DOTS signal channel heartbeat messages need to = be >>>>>>> frequent enough to maintain the TCP connection state." >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> As Joe commented already, different heartbeats at different >>>>>>> layers can >>> be >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> at the same time for different purposes. You can use heartbeats >>>>>>> at the application layer to check service availability while = e.g. >>>>>>> using a >>> higher >>>>>>> frequent heartbeat at the transport layer to maintain firewall >>>>>>> and NAT >>>>> state. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> [Med] Please note that the text you quoted is about "during = active >>>>> mitigation". When no attack is ongoing, we do have the following >>>>> behavior which covers your comment: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> When DOTS agents are exchanging heartbeats and no >>>>>> mitigation request is active, either agent MAY request changes = to >>>>>> the heartbeat rate. For example, a DOTS server might want to >>>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>>> reduce heartbeat frequency or cease heartbeat exchanges when = an >>>>>>=20 >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>>> active DOTS client has not requested mitigation, in order to >>>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>>>> control load. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> The advantage to such an approach is that there is less >>>>>>> application >>> layer >>>>>>> overhead/load e.g. in scenarios where it might be expensive to >>>>>>> wake up >>> the >>>>>>> application or a server is already highly loaded. Also note that >>>>>>> the >>>>> time- >>>>>>> outs >>>>>>> values of NATs and firewalls on the path are usually unknown, >>>>>>> therefore >>> an >>>>>>> application can never rely on heartbeats (no matter at which >>>>>>> level) and >>>>> must >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> prepared to try to reconnect on the application layer if the >>>>>>> connection fails. >>>>>>> Usually, the main reason for using heartbeats to maintain NAT or >>> firewall >>>>>>> state >>>>>>> (vs. reconnect every time) in TCP is if the application is time- >>> sensitive >>>>> and >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> full TCP handshake takes too long for the desired service. I'm >>>>>>> not sure >>>>> that >>>>>>> the case for DOTS, however, I understand it may be beneficial to >>>>>>> have established state if an attack is on-going. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> [Med] This is important to avoid new handshakes when the client >>>>>> has to >>>>> request a mitigation. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This is okay but could be spelled out more explicitly as a >>>>> requirement, rather than taking about the details of sending = heartbeats. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> For UDP I guess it's more complicated in your case. Time-outs = are >>> usually >>>>>>> very >>>>>>> short, however, state is created with the first packet of a flow >>>>>>> (as >>> there >>>>> is >>>>>>> no handshake in UDP). As you don't see blocking if state is >>>>>>> expired as >>> new >>>>>>> state is created immediately, it's kind of impossible to measure >>>>>>> the configured time-out values. Only if the firewall is under >>>>>>> attack it would start >>>>> blocking >>>>>>> UDP traffic that is has no state for yet. So I understand why it >>>>>>> is >>>>> desirable >>>>>>> to maintain UDP state for you, however, I don't understand how >>>>>>> you can >>>>> know >>>>>>> that your frequency is high enough to actually keep the state >>>>>>> open. Note >>>>> that >>>>>>> TCP time-outs are usually in the order of hours, while UDP >>>>>>> time-outs are usually in range of tens of seconds, and might >>>>>>> expire even quicker if a system is under attack. If that is a >>>>>>> scenario that is important for you, and assuming that not all >>>>>>> time-outs values on the path can be known, I guess it would >>>>> be >>>>>>> recommendable to use TCP instead. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> In any case this can not be a MUST requirement (as timers are >>>>>>> usually >>> not >>>>>>> known). I would recommend to state something like: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> "MAY be frequent enough to maintain NAT or firewall state, if >>>>>>> timer >>> values >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> known, or if TCP is used, SHOULD use in addition TCP heartbeats >>>>>>> to >>>>> maintain >>>>>>> the TCP connection state and reconnect immediately if a failure >>>>>>> is >>>>> detected." >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> [Med] The original wording is accurate and reflects the >>>>>> requirement of >>> the >>>>> WG. How this will be enforced is part of the = solution/specification space. >>>>>=20 >>>>> My hold point here is that >>>>>=20 >>>>> "MUST be frequent enough to maintain any on-path NAT or Firewall >>>>> bindings during mitigation.=E2=80=9C >>>>>=20 >>>>> cannot be a MUST requirement as the network time-out values are = not >>>>> known >>> by >>>>> the endpoints. Therefore it is impossible to fulfill this = requirement. >>>>=20 >>>> [Med] Two comments here: >>>> * The requirement can be fulfilled by relying RFC8085 >>>> recommendations. This >>> is discussed in the spec documents. >>>=20 >>> RFC8085 provide recommended value and limits, however, this does not >>> guarantee that the proposed values actually match the time-out = values >>> as deployed on the path. >>>=20 >>>> * there are deployments in which timers can be discovered (e.g., = PCP >>> (RFC6887)). >>>=20 >>> This does not work in all cases and the draft does not seem to = require >>> the usage of anything like this. If a requirement is that the = timeout >>> values MUST be known in the deployed scenario, then that should be >>> spelled out, however, I assume that is not your intention because = that >>> would limit deployment heavily. >>>=20 >>> Mirja >>>=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Mar 5 03:38:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473B213112D; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:38:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LH_lARxGHV4B; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B425E1310EF; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessfw99-sesbfw99-92.ericsson.net ([192.176.1.92] helo=[10.156.247.140]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1h18P7-0001ww-7T; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 12:38:37 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 12:38:35 +0100 Cc: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , "dots@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <155068522853.31498.10686203344983870104.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA23122@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <66BB8E3D-DEB6-43AC-AAEB-B6EB1A248865@kuehlewind.net> To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1551785922;c61909e2; X-HE-SMSGID: 1h18P7-0001ww-7T Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?dots-requirements-18=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:38:45 -0000 Hi Tiru, hi Med, to catch up on this comment. > Am 21.02.2019 um 15:23 schrieb Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy = : >=20 >>>> One editorial comment on SEC-002: >>>>=20 >>>> "A security mechanism at the network layer (e.g., >>>> TLS) is thus adequate to provide hop-by-hop security. In other >>>> words, end-to-end security is not required for DOTS protocols." >>>>=20 >>>> TLS is transport layer security (not network layer) and therefore >>>> known as providing end-to-end security while the term hop-by-hop is = used >> for e.g. >>>> IPSec. >>>>=20 >>>> I would recommend to change the wording here in order to avoid >>>> confusion, e.g. >>>>=20 >>>> "A security mechanism at the transport layer (e.g., >>>> TLS) is thus adequate to provide security between different = DOTS >>>> agents. >>>> In other words, a direct security association between the = server and >>>> client, excluding any proxy, is not required for DOTS = protocols." >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> [Med] I disagree with the last part of the proposed wording. The = DOTS >> architecture involves gateways, hence the hop-by-hop security model. >>=20 >> This is not a technical comment. The technical content is correct. = However, as I >> said above, the term hop-by-hop is associated by many people in the >> community with something like IPSec, while application layer gateways = are >> rather considered as endpoints. All I'm requesting is to avoid the = terms end-to- >> end and hop-by-hop in this context as it might be confusing to = others. >=20 >=20 > SEC-002 is modified in version 18 to add more details to address the = following comment from Robert Sparks (Genart review) : > from Paragraph 3 of SEC-002: This paragraph doesn't read as sensibly = when you have the pictures of aggregating gateways from the architecture = document in mind. > Does it constrain the types of connections that can be aggregated to = those that share equivalent security properties? If so, it should be = explicit. So, there are to point here: 1) With the current text there is at least one mistake. It says "A security mechanism at the network layer (e.g. TLS)=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C However, TLS is at actually at the application layer. So this needs = rewording. 2) The other part of my comment was simply that the use of the term = =E2=80=9Eend-to-end=E2=80=9C and "hop-by-hop=E2=80=9C could be confusing = as currently used (without much explanation). I suggest initially to = simply not use these term, however, you could also say something like = =E2=80=9Ehop-by-hop between an DOTS gateway and a DOTS client or = sever=E2=80=9C and end-to-end directly between the DOTS client and = server=E2=80=9C, just to be very clear about this. Mirja From nobody Tue Mar 5 03:46:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DC31310B7; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:46:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qJ5Dv2ZVfjec; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD73313109F; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 03:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessfw99-sesbfw99-92.ericsson.net ([192.176.1.92] helo=[10.156.247.140]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1h18Wr-0001Vk-CR; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 12:46:37 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 12:46:35 +0100 Cc: "dots@ietf.org" , "Teague, Nik" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , The IESG , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <096F1055-0195-44E4-9259-4BA77F4E4669@kuehlewind.net> References: <155068522853.31498.10686203344983870104.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA23122@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <66BB8E3D-DEB6-43AC-AAEB-B6EB1A248865@kuehlewind.net> <5CE85A1F-16DC-485C-BA5F-278E0E8CFF3C@Verisign.com> <3089053C-CF9B-491A-ACB0-0BC053C50E88@kuehlewind.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA232C1@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1551786403;1d6645d3; X-HE-SMSGID: 1h18Wr-0001Vk-CR Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?dots-requirements-18=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:46:47 -0000 Hi Tiru, please see below. > Am 21.02.2019 um 15:02 schrieb Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy = : >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) >> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 7:10 PM >> To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >> Cc: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Teague, Nik ; >> dots-chairs@ietf.org; frank.xialiang@huawei.com; dots@ietf.org; The = IESG >> ; draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dots] Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's Discuss on = draft-ietf-dots-requirements- >> 18: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>=20 >> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click = links or >> open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content = is safe. >>=20 >> Hi Tiru, >>=20 >> please see below. >>=20 >>> Am 21.02.2019 um 14:03 schrieb Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >> : >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:55 PM >>>> To: Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) ; Teague, Nik >>>> >>>> Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org; frank.xialiang@huawei.com; dots@ietf.org; >>>> The IESG ; draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: Re: [Dots] Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's Discuss on = draft-ietf-dots- >>>> requirements-18: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>>=20 >>>> This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not = click >>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know = the >> content is safe. >>>>=20 >>>> Re-, >>>>=20 >>>> Please see inline. >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>> Med >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>>> De : Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) [mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net] Envoy=C3=A9= : >>>>> jeudi 21 f=C3=A9vrier 2019 12:42 =C3=80 : Teague, Nik Cc : = BOUCADAIR Mohamed >>>>> TGI/OLN; dots-chairs@ietf.org; frank.xialiang@huawei.com; >>>>> dots@ietf.org; The IESG; draft-ietf-dots- requirements@ietf.org >>>>> Objet >>>>> : Re: Re: [Dots] Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's Discuss on = draft-ietf-dots- >>>>> requirements-18: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>> please see below. >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Am 21.02.2019 um 12:18 schrieb Teague, Nik = : >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 21 Feb 2019, at 10:58, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 3) In SIG-006 you say: >>>>>>>>> " Due to the higher likelihood of packet loss during a = DDoS attack, >>>>>>>>> DOTS servers MUST regularly send mitigation status to = authorized >>>>>>>>> DOTS clients which have requested and been granted = mitigation, >>>>>>>>> regardless of client requests for mitigation status." >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Please note that this is only true if a not-reliable transport = is used. >>>>> If a >>>>>>>>> reliable transport is used, data is received at the = application >>>>>>>>> level >>>>> without >>>>>>>>> loss (but maybe some delay) or the connection is terminated = (if >>>>>>>>> loss is >>>>> too >>>>>>>>> high to retransmit successfully). >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> [Med] The requirement as worded is OK. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I disagree, because as I said if a reliable transport is used = this >>>>>>> is not >>>>> true. Maybe you can adapt this sentence slightly to clarify that = you >>>>> probably had a scenario in mind where an unreliable transport is >>>>> used >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The key part here is =E2=80=98packet=E2=80=99 vs =E2=80=98data=E2=80= =99 - packets will be lost on >>>>>> congested >>>>> links regardless of data integrity. This may degrade connection = re- >>>>> establishment with tcp and cause data loss in an unreliable = transport. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes, packet loss also occurs also with reliable transports and = might >>>>> lead to connection failure. However, I don=E2=80=99t this how this >>>>> requirement is derived from that effect. If I use a reliable >>>>> transport and my connection does not fail, I can be sure that the >>>>> mitigation status information have been received correctly, so why >>>>> do I need to re-send >>>> frequently then? >>>>=20 >>>> [Med] The text you quoted is not about "frequent retransmission" = but >>>> about sending updates related to the status of a mitigation in >>>> progress. The server has to send regular notifications to update = the >>>> client about the status of a mitigation. >>>=20 >>> I have modified the text as follows to address the comment: >>>=20 >>> DOTS server MUST regularly send mitigation status updates to = authorized >> DOTS clients which have requested and been granted mitigation. If = unreliable >> transport is used for the signal channel protocol, due to the higher = likelihood of >> packet loss during a DDoS attack, DOTS server MUST regularly = retransmit >> mitigation status. >>=20 >> Thanks! One wording comment, unless I misunderstood something, I = don=E2=80=99t think >> there is any kind of acknowledgment mechanism when unreliable = transport is >> used. There the use of the word =E2=80=9Eretransmit=E2=80=9C seems = irritating here. Do you >> maybe want to say something like this: >>=20 >> "DOTS server MUST regularly send mitigation status updates to = authorized >> DOTS clients which have requested and been granted mitigation. If = unreliable >> transport is used for the signal channel protocol, due to the higher = likelihood of >> packet loss during a DDoS attack, DOTS server SHOULD send mitigation = status >> updates more frequently.=E2=80=9C >=20 > The updated mitigation status needs to be sent multiple times to = increase the likeliness of the message reaching the client, and any = specific reason for using SHOULD instead of MUST. I propose the = following update:=20 > DOTS server MUST regularly send mitigation status updates to = authorized DOTS clients which have requested and been granted = mitigation. If unreliable transport is used for the signal channel = protocol, due to the higher likelihood of packet loss during a DDoS = attack, DOTS server MUST send mitigation status multiple times at = regular intervals following the data transmission guidelines discussed = in Section 3.1.3 of [RFC8085]. I=E2=80=99m in general okay with this. The reason why I used SHOULD is = because this requirement is quite =E2=80=9Eblurry=E2=80=9C. You say " = MUST send mitigation status multiple times at regular intervals=E2=80=9C, = however, how often is multiple time and which interval? If you say = something like "MUST send mitigation status at least every 10 seconds = for at least 3 minutes=E2=80=9C then a MUST would be appropriate, = however, otherwise I would actually suggest to not use normative = language in this sentence as all (as you already have a normative = requirement in the first sentence and therefore this sentence is more = additional explanation than a separate requirement). Please also note = (again) that RFC8085 recommends to not send such messages more often = than every 3 seconds as well as the implementation of exponential = back-off. Mirja >=20 > -Tiru >=20 >>=20 >> ? >>=20 >> Mirja >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> -Tiru >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Mirja >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Mar 5 04:08:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD97C131263; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:08:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.92.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155178773273.24579.13786972284055701680@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 04:08:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 12:08:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy Mohamed Boucadair Prashanth Patil Andrew Mortensen Nik Teague Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30.txt Pages : 99 Date : 2019-03-05 Abstract: This document specifies the DOTS signal channel, a protocol for signaling the need for protection against Distributed Denial-of- Service (DDoS) attacks to a server capable of enabling network traffic mitigation on behalf of the requesting client. A companion document defines the DOTS data channel, a separate reliable communication layer for DOTS management and configuration purposes. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements within the document with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" o "RFC XXXX: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification"; o "| [RFCXXXX] |" o reference: RFC XXXX Please update this statement with the RFC number to be assigned to the following documents: o "RFC YYYY: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification (used to be I-D.ietf-dots-data- channel) Please update TBD/TBD1/TBD2 statements with the assignments made by IANA to DOTS Signal Channel Protocol. Also, please update the "revision" date of the YANG modules. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Mar 5 04:13:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005E21310B7; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:13:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MlBoDW-rg4Ft; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:13:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3DC31310B1; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44DG4j18skzFqj5; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:13:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.51]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44DG4j0LsKz2xC9; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:13:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::954c:232a:f07d:25af%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0435.000; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:13:08 +0100 From: To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" , "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , "dots@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0RvdHNdIE1pcmphIEvDvGhsZXdpbmQncyBEaXNjdXNzIG9uIGRyYWZ0LWll?= =?utf-8?B?dGYtZG90cy1yZXF1aXJlbWVudHMtMTg6ICh3aXRoIERJU0NVU1MgYW5kIENP?= =?utf-8?Q?MMENT)?= Thread-Index: AQHU00f8l53ut050SkC3xbtD9kOcuKX88fKw Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 12:13:08 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA288D7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155068522853.31498.10686203344983870104.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA23122@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <66BB8E3D-DEB6-43AC-AAEB-B6EB1A248865@kuehlewind.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?dots-requirements-18=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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bmQgZW5kLXRvLWVuZCBkaXJlY3RseSBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBET1RTIGNsaWVudCBhbmQgc2VydmVy 4oCcLA0KPiBqdXN0IHRvIGJlIHZlcnkgY2xlYXIgYWJvdXQgdGhpcy4NCj4gDQo+IE1pcmphDQo+ IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Mar 5 04:16:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F5212867A for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tzzUFKtnfKJx for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEDCA1310BD for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44DG7t3Qm1z10bT; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:15:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.70]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44DG7t2XsGzDq7W; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:15:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM33.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c911:d24e:cc19:afa7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0435.000; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:15:54 +0100 From: To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel) Thread-Index: AQHU0qRq9ZQe+5ghxkum2rMyhw9TyaX89K7Q Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 12:15:53 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA288FA@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA20112@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190215150458.GV56447@kduck.mit.edu> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA20406@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190218162322.GI24387@kduck.mit.edu> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA21AC0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190227155729.GL53396@kduck.mit.edu> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA2680B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA26AD5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20190304160438.GA31937@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190304160438.GA31937@kduck.mit.edu> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 12:16:01 -0000 Hi Ben,=20 The new version is available online:=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 4 mars 2019 17:05 > =C0=A0: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > Cc=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org= ; > dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-iet= f- > dots-signal-channel) >=20 > Please go ahead and publish -- this is good enough for me to be willing t= o > start the IETF LC, though we will probably tweak it a bit more still. > (I'd like to keep the data channel and signal channel docs together throu= gh > IETF LC and IESG evaluation to the extent possible.) >=20 > -Ben >=20 > On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 04:01:47PM +0000, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote= : > > Updated text looks good to me. > > @Ben - Please let us know if the proposed update addresses your comment= s, > we would like to publish the changes. > > > > Cheers, > > -Tiru > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 6:39 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy ; > > > Benjamin Kaduk > > > Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft- > ietf-dots- > > > signal-channel) > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > links or > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content= is > safe. > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > I rearranged the text as follows: > > > > > > OLD: > > > Section 8 of [RFC8446] discusses some mechanisms to implement t= o > > > limit the impact of replay attacks on 0-RTT data. If the DOTS > > > server accepts 0-RTT, it MUST implement one of these mechanisms= . > > > A DOTS server can reject 0-RTT by sending a TLS HelloRetryReque= st. > > > The DOTS signal channel messages sent as early data by the DOTS > > > client are idempotent requests. As a reminder, Message ID > > > (Section 3 of [RFC7252]) is changed each time a new CoAP reques= t > > > is sent, and the Token (Section 5.3.1 of [RFC7252]) is randomiz= ed > > > in each CoAP request. The DOTS server(s) can use Message ID an= d > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay of ea= rly > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once. Furthermore, 'mid' > > > value is monotonically increased by the DOTS client for each > > > mitigation request, attackers replaying mitigation requests wit= h > > > lower numeric 'mid' values and overlapping scopes with mitigati= on > > > requests having higher numeric 'mid' values will be rejected > > > systematically by the DOTS server. Likewise, 'sid' value is > > > monotonically increased by the DOTS client for each configurati= on > > > session, attackers replaying configuration requests with lower > > > numeric 'sid' values will be rejected by the DOTS server if it > > > maintains a higher numeric 'sid' value for this DOTS client. > > > > > > NEW: > > > Section 8 of [RFC8446] discusses some mechanisms to implement t= o > > > limit the impact of replay attacks on 0-RTT data. If the DOTS > > > server accepts 0-RTT, it MUST implement one of these mechanisms= to > > > prevent replay at the TLS layer. A DOTS server can reject 0-RT= T > > > by sending a TLS HelloRetryRequest. > > > > > > The DOTS signal channel messages sent as early data by the DOTS > > > client are idempotent requests. As a reminder, the Message ID > > > (Section 3 of [RFC7252]) is changed each time a new CoAP reques= t > > > is sent, and the Token (Section 5.3.1 of [RFC7252]) is randomiz= ed > > > in each CoAP request. The DOTS server(s) MUST use the Message = ID > > > and the Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect repl= ay > > > of early data at the application layer, and accept 0-RTT data a= t > > > most once from the same DOTS client. This anti-replay defense > > > requires sharing the Message ID and the Token in the 0-RTT data > > > between DOTS servers in the DOTS server domain. DOTS servers d= o > > > not rely on transport coordinates to identify DOTS peers. As > > > specified in Section 4.4.1, DOTS servers couple the DOTS signal > > > channel sessions using the DOTS client identity and optionally = the > > > 'cdid' parameter value. Furthermore, 'mid' value is monotonica= lly > > > increased by the DOTS client for each mitigation request, > > > attackers replaying mitigation requests with lower numeric 'mid= ' > > > values and overlapping scopes with mitigation requests having > > > higher numeric 'mid' values will be rejected systematically by = the > > > DOTS server. Likewise, 'sid' value is monotonically increased = by > > > the DOTS client for each configuration request (Section 4.5.2), > > > attackers replaying configuration requests with lower numeric > > > 'sid' values will be rejected by the DOTS server if it maintain= s a > > > higher numeric 'sid' value for this DOTS client. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De=A0: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 28 f=E9vrier 2019 11:50 > > > > =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Benjamin Kaduk Cc=A0: > > > > draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org Objet=A0: RE= : > > > > [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of draft-ietf- > > > > dots-signal-channel) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Dots On Behalf Of > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 1:48 PM > > > > > To: Benjamin Kaduk > > > > > Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; Konda, Tirumaleswar > > > > > Reddy ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [Dots] Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: AD review of > > > > > draft-ietf- > > > > dots- > > > > > signal-channel) > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cl= ick > > > > > links > > > > or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > content is > > > > safe. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De=A0: Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] Envoy=E9=A0: mercr= edi 27 > > > > > > f=E9vrier 2019 16:58 =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN Cc=A0: K= onda, > > > > > > Tirumaleswar Reddy; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org; > > > > > > dots@ietf.org > > > > > > Objet=A0: Re: Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: [Dots] AD review of > > > > > > draft-ietf- > > > > > > dots-signal-channel) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 07:59:29AM +0000, > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay. BTW, it is looking like this is the last topic to resolv= e > > > > > > before starting IETF LC. It's probably worth s/the exponent is > > > > > > 2/the base of the exponent is 2/ in the next rev, though, just = as > > > > > > a minor nit- > > > > fix. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > > > De=A0: Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] Envoy=E9=A0: l= undi 18 > > > > > > > > f=E9vrier 2019 17:23 =C0=A0: BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN Cc= =A0: Konda, > > > > > > > > Tirumaleswar Reddy; draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf..or= g; > > > > > > > > dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > > Objet=A0: Re: Using Early Data in DOTS (RE: [Dots] AD revie= w of > > > > > > > > draft-ietf- > > > > > > > > dots-signal-channel) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 03:36:05PM +0000, > > > > > > > > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to discuss this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder whether you can consider putting the document in > > > > > > > > > the IETF LC > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > now. If it happen that we need to modify the 0-RTT text, we > > > > > > > > will handle > > > > > > it as > > > > > > > > other IETF LC comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would normally be pretty amenable to starting IETF LC and > > > > > > > > continuing discussion; it's just for this issue in particul= ar > > > > > > > > that I seem to be the main person on the IESG that enforces > > > > > > > > the "application profile for 0-RTT data" requirement, so it > > > > > > > > would feel rather odd to go forward in this > > > > > > case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luckily, I spent some time this weekend reading RFC 7252 an= d > > > > > > > > have some substantive comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The key oberservation here seems to be that the Message ID = is > > > > > > > > scoped per endpoint, and replays can come from arbitrary > addresses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically, we recall that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The DOTS signal channel is layered on existing standards > > > > > > > > (Figure > > > > 3). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +---------------------+ > > > > > > > > | DOTS Signal Channel | > > > > > > > > +---------------------+ > > > > > > > > | CoAP | > > > > > > > > +----------+----------+ > > > > > > > > | TLS | DTLS | > > > > > > > > +----------+----------+ > > > > > > > > | TCP | UDP | > > > > > > > > +----------+----------+ > > > > > > > > | IP | > > > > > > > > +---------------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We note that CoAP is using the IP address or "DTLS session" > > > > > > > > (arguably a poorly chosen term) to identify a CoAP associat= ion > > > > > > > > and that Message IDs > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > only used within the scope of such an association, it seems > > > > > > > > pretty clear that an attacker able to replay TLS 1.3 0-RTT > > > > > > > > data will slice off the top three lines of this figure and > > > > > > > > swap out the TCP/UDP/IP layers. In the absence of DTLS > > > > > > > > connection IDs, my understanding is that the "DTLS > > > > > > session" > > > > > > > > is identified solely by the transport connection, just as f= or > > > > > > > > coap-not-s, so by spoofing the source address, the attacker > > > > > > > > causes the replayed 0-RTT data (and thus, CoAP request) to = be > > > > > > > > interpreted as a new incoming coaps connection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given that Message ID is only 16 bits and the servers > > > > > > > > accepting 0-RTT > > > > > > data > > > > > > > > have potential to be quite busy, it does not seem workable = to > > > > > > > > attempt to use the incoming Message IDs as globally unique > > > > > > > > replay defense, as the > > > > > > risk > > > > > > > > of collision would be pretty large. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The replay detection relies on both Message ID and Toke= n. > > > > > > > > > > > > In stock CoAP, the Message ID and Token are used only with the > > > > > > context of a specific transport association. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Hmm...RFC7252 defines an endpoint as follows: > > > > > > > > > > The specific definition of an endpoint depends on the transpor= t > being > > > > > used for CoAP. For the transports defined in this specificati= on, > the > > > > > endpoint is identified depending on the security mode used (se= e > > > > > Section 9): With no security, the endpoint is solely identifie= d by > an > > > > > IP address and a UDP port number. With other security modes, = the > > > > > endpoint is identified as defined by the security mode. > > > > > > > > > > DOTS adheres to that definition: it assumes that an endpoint is n= ot > > > > identified by > > > > > its transport coordinates but with its identity. > > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, the correlation between sessions is clearly mentione= d > > > > > in the > > > > text: > > > > > > > > > > The DOTS server couples the DOTS signal channel sessions using= the > > > > > DOTS client identity and optionally the 'cdid' parameter value= , > and > > > > > the DOTS server uses 'mid' and 'cuid' Uri-Path parameter value= s to > > > > > detect duplicate mitigation requests. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to use them for (D)TLS 1.3 replay > > > > > > defense, we need to expand that context to a broader scope, and > > > > > > direct the server to check the Message ID/Token globally (or at > > > > > > least within the scope of a given 'cuid'/'cdid'). Since this > > > > > > would reflect a divergence from normal CoAP, if we are going to > > > > > > rely on this sort of behavior, we must call it out very loudly = as > specific to > > > DOTS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We can make this change if it helps: > > > > > > > > > > OLD: > > > > > The DOTS server(s) can use Message ID and > > > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay o= f > early > > > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once. > > > > > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > The DOTS server(s) can use Message ID and > > > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay o= f > early > > > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once from the same DOTS > client. > > > > > DOTS servers do not rely on transport coordinates to > > > > > identify its peers. As a reminder, DOTS servers couples the > > > > > DOTS > > > > signal > > > > > channel sessions > > > > > using the DOTS client identity and optionally the 'cdid' > > > > > parameter > > > > value. > > > > > > > > I propose to update the text as follows: > > > > > > > > The DOTS server(s) can use the Message ID and > > > > Token in the DOTS signal channel message to detect replay of > early > > > > data, and accept 0-RTT data at most once from the same DOTS > client. > > > > This anti-replay defense requires sharing the Message ID and > > > > Token in the 0-RTT data > > > > between DOTS servers in the DOTS server domain. > > > > DOTS servers do not rely on transport coordinates to > > > > identify its peers. As a reminder, DOTS servers couples the D= OTS > > > > signal channel sessions > > > > using the DOTS client identity and optionally the 'cdid' > > > > parameter value. > > > > > > > > -Tiru From nobody Tue Mar 5 04:47:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB091310B7; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 04:47:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hbS1ZFhTar43; 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Pj4gdGhlIHRpbWVvdXQgdmFsdWVzIE1VU1QgYmUga25vd24gaW4gdGhlIGRlcGxveWVkIHNjZW5h cmlvLCB0aGVuIHRoYXQNCj4gPj4+IHNob3VsZCBiZSBzcGVsbGVkIG91dCwgaG93ZXZlciwgSSBh c3N1bWUgdGhhdCBpcyBub3QgeW91ciBpbnRlbnRpb24NCj4gPj4+IGJlY2F1c2UgdGhhdCB3b3Vs ZCBsaW1pdCBkZXBsb3ltZW50IGhlYXZpbHkuDQo+ID4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4gTWlyamENCj4gPj4+DQo+ ID4NCg0K From nobody Tue Mar 5 05:14:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276FC1310F1; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:14:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit 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<5CE85A1F-16DC-485C-BA5F-278E0E8CFF3C@Verisign.com> <3089053C-CF9B-491A-ACB0-0BC053C50E88@kuehlewind.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA232C1@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <096F1055-0195-44E4-9259-4BA77F4E4669@kuehlewind.net> In-Reply-To: <096F1055-0195-44E4-9259-4BA77F4E4669@kuehlewind.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; x-originating-ip: [49.37.201.107] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 35da62f5-f4af-433c-dc26-08d6a16c83a1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600127)(711020)(4605104)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:DM6PR16MB3323; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR16MB3323: 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bWVudCkuIFBsZWFzZSBhbHNvIG5vdGUgKGFnYWluKSB0aGF0IFJGQzgwODUgcmVjb21tZW5kcyB0 bw0KPiBub3Qgc2VuZCBzdWNoIG1lc3NhZ2VzIG1vcmUgb2Z0ZW4gdGhhbiBldmVyeSAzIHNlY29u ZHMgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyB0aGUNCj4gaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gb2YgZXhwb25lbnRpYWwgYmFjay1v ZmYuDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBhbHJlYWR5IHB1Ymxpc2hlZCByZXZpc2VkIGRyYWZ0IHVzaW5nIHRoZSBh Ym92ZSB0ZXh0LiBJZiB5b3UgaW5zaXN0LCBJIGNhbiB1cGRhdGUgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IHRvIHNheToN Cg0KRE9UUyBzZXJ2ZXIgTVVTVCByZWd1bGFybHkgc2VuZCBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIHN0YXR1cyB1cGRh dGVzIHRvIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQNCkRPVFMgY2xpZW50cyB3aGljaCBoYXZlIHJlcXVlc3RlZCBhbmQg YmVlbiBncmFudGVkIG1pdGlnYXRpb24uIElmIHVucmVsaWFibGUNCiB0cmFuc3BvcnQgaXMgdXNl ZCBmb3IgdGhlIHNpZ25hbCBjaGFubmVsIHByb3RvY29sLCBkdWUgdG8gdGhlIGhpZ2hlciBsaWtl bGlob29kIG9mDQogcGFja2V0IGxvc3MgZHVyaW5nIGEgRERvUyBhdHRhY2ssIERPVFMgc2VydmVy IG5lZWRzIHRvIHNlbmQgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiBzdGF0dXMNCiBtdWx0aXBsZSB0aW1lcyBhdCByZWd1 bGFyIGludGVydmFscyBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGhlIGRhdGEgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIGd1aWRlbGluZXMN CiBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gU2VjdGlvbiAzLjEuMyBvZiBbUkZDODA4NV0uDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCi1U aXJ1DQoNCj4gDQo+IE1pcmphDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+ID4NCj4gPiAtVGlydQ0KPiA+DQo+ID4+ DQo+ID4+ID8NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gTWlyamENCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4+DQo+ID4+ PiAtVGlydQ0KPiA+Pj4NCj4gPj4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4+PiBNaXJqYQ0KPiA+Pj4+Pg0K PiA+Pj4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4NCj4gPg0KDQo= From nobody Tue Mar 5 06:33:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E42126C7E; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Eb7gl9dqWmZo; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1576C124B0C; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessfw99-sesbfw99-92.ericsson.net ([192.176.1.92] helo=[10.156.247.140]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1h1B8O-0000Qy-2b; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 15:33:32 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA288D7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:33:29 +0100 Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , "dots@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1CFA231F-A1C5-48EB-833A-49C466DE65BA@kuehlewind.net> References: <155068522853.31498.10686203344983870104.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA23122@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <66BB8E3D-DEB6-43AC-AAEB-B6EB1A248865@kuehlewind.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA288D7@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1551796418;6f64c094; X-HE-SMSGID: 1h1B8O-0000Qy-2b Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?dots-requirements-18=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 14:33:41 -0000 Thanks! > Am 05.03.2019 um 13:13 schrieb = : >=20 > Hi Mirja,=20 >=20 > This was fixed in -19. The new text says the following:=20 >=20 > OLD: >=20 > A security mechanism at the network layer (e.g., > TLS) is thus adequate to provide hop-by-hop security. In other > words, end-to-end security is not required for DOTS protocols. >=20 > NEW: >=20 > A security mechanism at the > transport layer (e.g., TLS) is thus adequate to provide security > between peer DOTS agents. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) [mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net] >> Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 5 mars 2019 12:39 >> =C3=80 : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >> Cc : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; dots-chairs@ietf.org; >> frank.xialiang@huawei.com; dots@ietf.org; The IESG; draft-ietf-dots- >> requirements@ietf.org >> Objet : Re: [Dots] Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's Discuss on = draft-ietf-dots-requirements- >> 18: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>=20 >> Hi Tiru, hi Med, >>=20 >> to catch up on this comment. >>=20 >>> Am 21.02.2019 um 15:23 schrieb Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy >> : >>>=20 >>>>>> One editorial comment on SEC-002: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> "A security mechanism at the network layer (e.g., >>>>>> TLS) is thus adequate to provide hop-by-hop security. In = other >>>>>> words, end-to-end security is not required for DOTS = protocols." >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> TLS is transport layer security (not network layer) and therefore >>>>>> known as providing end-to-end security while the term hop-by-hop = is used >>>> for e.g. >>>>>> IPSec. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I would recommend to change the wording here in order to avoid >>>>>> confusion, e.g. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> "A security mechanism at the transport layer (e.g., >>>>>> TLS) is thus adequate to provide security between different = DOTS >>>>>> agents. >>>>>> In other words, a direct security association between the = server and >>>>>> client, excluding any proxy, is not required for DOTS = protocols." >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [Med] I disagree with the last part of the proposed wording. The = DOTS >>>> architecture involves gateways, hence the hop-by-hop security = model. >>>>=20 >>>> This is not a technical comment. The technical content is correct. >> However, as I >>>> said above, the term hop-by-hop is associated by many people in the >>>> community with something like IPSec, while application layer = gateways are >>>> rather considered as endpoints. All I'm requesting is to avoid the = terms >> end-to- >>>> end and hop-by-hop in this context as it might be confusing to = others. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> SEC-002 is modified in version 18 to add more details to address the >> following comment from Robert Sparks (Genart review) : >>> from Paragraph 3 of SEC-002: This paragraph doesn't read as sensibly = when >> you have the pictures of aggregating gateways from the architecture = document >> in mind. >>> Does it constrain the types of connections that can be aggregated to = those >> that share equivalent security properties? If so, it should be = explicit. >>=20 >>=20 >> So, there are to point here: >>=20 >> 1) With the current text there is at least one mistake. It says >>=20 >> "A security mechanism at the network layer (e.g. TLS)=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9C= >>=20 >> However, TLS is at actually at the application layer. So this needs >> rewording. >>=20 >> 2) The other part of my comment was simply that the use of the term = =E2=80=9Eend-to- >> end=E2=80=9C and "hop-by-hop=E2=80=9C could be confusing as currently = used (without much >> explanation). I suggest initially to simply not use these term, = however, you >> could also say something like =E2=80=9Ehop-by-hop between an DOTS = gateway and a DOTS >> client or sever=E2=80=9C and end-to-end directly between the DOTS = client and server=E2=80=9C, >> just to be very clear about this. >>=20 >> Mirja >>=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Mar 5 15:11:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F68F1200D8; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:11:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.93.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, kaduk@mit.edu, dots-chairs@ietf.org, Liang Xia Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <155182750727.27636.16089143237300202213.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 15:11:47 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Last Call: (Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 23:11:47 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG (dots) to consider the following document: - 'Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-03-19. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document specifies the DOTS signal channel, a protocol for signaling the need for protection against Distributed Denial-of- Service (DDoS) attacks to a server capable of enabling network traffic mitigation on behalf of the requesting client. A companion document defines the DOTS data channel, a separate reliable communication layer for DOTS management and configuration purposes. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements within the document with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" o "RFC XXXX: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification"; o "| [RFCXXXX] |" o reference: RFC XXXX Please update this statement with the RFC number to be assigned to the following documents: o "RFC YYYY: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification (used to be I-D.ietf-dots-data- channel) Please update TBD/TBD1/TBD2 statements with the assignments made by IANA to DOTS Signal Channel Protocol. Also, please update the "revision" date of the YANG modules. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. The document contains these normative downward references. See RFC 3967 for additional information: rfc7918: Transport Layer Security (TLS) False Start (Informational - IETF stream) From nobody Tue Mar 5 16:03:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 381AA130DD3; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 16:03:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Datatracker on behalf of Suresh Krishnan To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org, Liang Xia , dots-chairs@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.93.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155183061322.27636.475155878917217119.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 16:03:33 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-dots-requirements-20: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 00:03:33 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-20: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS and COMMENTs. 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([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::54f9:a664:e400:452a%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0435.000; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 08:47:16 +0100 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" , kaname nishizuka , "draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering.authors@ietf.org" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0RvdHNdIOetlOWkjTogIEhpLCBhdXRob3JzLiAzIGNvbW1lbnRzOg==?= Thread-Index: AQHU00Ah5CPMIOlBWE2bR1sZTjFXVKX+JvMAgAARgWA= Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 07:47:15 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA29424@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <21e92c8d-8df0-576a-db08-3163c74bba59@nttv6.jp> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA287D5@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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(localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C71741313B1; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 02:21:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Datatracker on behalf of Roni Even To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.93.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155195406376.15866.11400149967812730230@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:21:03 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 10:21:04 -0000 Reviewer: Roni Even Review result: Ready with Nits I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-?? Reviewer: Roni Even Review Date: 2019-03-07 IETF LC End Date: 2019-03-13 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: The document is ready with nits and one minor issue for publication as a standard track RFC Major issues: Minor issues: 1. In section 2 there is a discussion about conflicting filtering requests. I think that this can be considered as an attack and should be mentioned in the security section. I also think that such a conflict must be reported to the administrator even if rejected. Nits/editorial comments: 1. In figure 2 missing HTTP layer? 2. In section 6.1 "If the request is missing a mandatory attribute or its contains " should be "it" instead of "its" 3. In section 7.3 "A DOTS client periodically queries ...". I did not see any text about why this is done is this a common behavior? how often? 4. After figure 29 "bound to a given ACL as shown in Figure 28 " I think it should be 27? 5. In figure 31 ""pending-lifetime": 8000 ," why 8000 and not 9080 as in figure 28? From nobody Thu Mar 7 03:57:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B742F1313A9; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 03:56:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYyDcHo6NkqK; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 03:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ADE6131312; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 03:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44FTcv3vhmz5w8r; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 12:56:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.89]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44FTcv37JxzyQ6; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 12:56:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM44.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 12:56:47 +0100 From: To: Datatracker on behalf of Roni Even , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU1M96HszzcMciF0iwB2qD1pPbmaX/+XRQ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 11:56:46 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA352D6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155195406376.15866.11400149967812730230@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155195406376.15866.11400149967812730230@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:56:55 -0000 SGkgUm9uaSwgDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldy4gDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5s aW5lLg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4g RGXCoDogRGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIFJvbmkgRXZlbiBbbWFpbHRvOm5vcmVwbHlA aWV0Zi5vcmddDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogamV1ZGkgNyBtYXJzIDIwMTkgMTE6MjENCj4gw4DCoDog Z2VuLWFydEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDY8KgOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtZGF0YS1jaGFubmVsLmFs bEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgaWV0ZkBpZXRmLm9yZzsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBHZW5h cnQgbGFzdCBjYWxsIHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtZGF0YS1jaGFubmVsLTI3DQo+ IA0KPiBSZXZpZXdlcjogUm9uaSBFdmVuDQo+IFJldmlldyByZXN1bHQ6IFJlYWR5IHdpdGggTml0 cw0KPiANCj4gSSBhbSB0aGUgYXNzaWduZWQgR2VuLUFSVCByZXZpZXdlciBmb3IgdGhpcyBkcmFm dC4gVGhlIEdlbmVyYWwgQXJlYQ0KPiBSZXZpZXcgVGVhbSAoR2VuLUFSVCkgcmV2aWV3cyBhbGwg SUVURiBkb2N1bWVudHMgYmVpbmcgcHJvY2Vzc2VkDQo+IGJ5IHRoZSBJRVNHIGZvciB0aGUgSUVU RiBDaGFpci4gIFBsZWFzZSB0cmVhdCB0aGVzZSBjb21tZW50cyBqdXN0DQo+IGxpa2UgYW55IG90 aGVyIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBjb21tZW50cy4NCj4gDQo+IEZvciBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBwbGVh c2Ugc2VlIHRoZSBGQVEgYXQNCj4gDQo+IDxodHRwczovL3RyYWMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvdHJhYy9nZW4v d2lraS9HZW5BcnRmYXE+Lg0KPiANCj4gRG9jdW1lbnQ6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1kYXRhLWNo YW5uZWwtPz8NCj4gUmV2aWV3ZXI6IFJvbmkgRXZlbg0KPiBSZXZpZXcgRGF0ZTogMjAxOS0wMy0w Nw0KPiBJRVRGIExDIEVuZCBEYXRlOiAyMDE5LTAzLTEzDQo+IElFU0cgVGVsZWNoYXQgZGF0ZTog Tm90IHNjaGVkdWxlZCBmb3IgYSB0ZWxlY2hhdA0KPiANCj4gU3VtbWFyeToNCj4gVGhlIGRvY3Vt ZW50IGlzIHJlYWR5IHdpdGggbml0cyBhbmQgb25lIG1pbm9yIGlzc3VlIGZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlv biBhcyBhDQo+IHN0YW5kYXJkIHRyYWNrIFJGQw0KPiANCj4gTWFqb3IgaXNzdWVzOg0KPiANCj4g TWlub3IgaXNzdWVzOg0KPiANCj4gMS4gSW4gc2VjdGlvbiAyIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgZGlzY3Vzc2lv biBhYm91dCBjb25mbGljdGluZyBmaWx0ZXJpbmcgcmVxdWVzdHMuIA0KDQpbTWVkXSBJIGd1ZXNz IHlvdSBtZWFudCBzZWN0aW9uIDMuDQoNCkkNCj4gdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGNhbiBiZSBjb25z aWRlcmVkIGFzIGFuIGF0dGFjayBhbmQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIG1lbnRpb25lZCBpbiB0aGUNCj4gc2Vj dXJpdHkgc2VjdGlvbi4NCg0KW01lZF0gQ29uZmxpY3RzIG1heSBiZSBjYXVzZWQgYnkgdmFyaW91 cyAibGVnaXRpbWF0ZSIgYWN0aW9ucy4gT2YgY291cnNlLCBhcyBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhlIFNl Y3VyaXR5IHNlY3Rpb24sIGFuIGF0dGFja2VyIHdobyBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gYSBET1RTIGNsaWVudCBj YW4gZG8gYSBsb3Qgb2YgdGhpbmdzIHN1Y2ggYXMgaW5zdGFsbGluZyBzb21lIGZpbHRlcnMgaW5j bHVkaW5nIGNvbmZsaWN0aW5nIG9uZXMuIFRoaXMgaXMgYWxyZWFkeSByZXBvcnRlZCBpbiB0aGUg c2VjdXJpdHkgc2VjdGlvbi4NCg0KDQogSSBhbHNvIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgc3VjaCBhIGNvbmZsaWN0 IG11c3QgYmUgcmVwb3J0ZWQgdG8gdGhlDQo+IGFkbWluaXN0cmF0b3IgZXZlbiBpZiByZWplY3Rl ZC4NCg0KW01lZF0gVGhpcyBpcyBkZXBsb3ltZW50LXNwZWNpZmljLiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgaWYg Y29uZmxpY3QgaGFuZGxpbmcgcmVxdWlyZXMgIm5vdGlmeSBhbiBhZG1pbmlzdHJhdG9yIGZvciB2 YWxpZGF0aW9uIiwgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gcG9pbnQgdG8gcmVwb3J0IGFnYWluLiANCg0KPiANCj4g Tml0cy9lZGl0b3JpYWwgY29tbWVudHM6DQo+IA0KPiAxLiBJbiBmaWd1cmUgMiBtaXNzaW5nIEhU VFAgbGF5ZXI/DQoNCltNZWRdIE5vLCB0aGF0IGlzIG9uIHB1cnBvc2UuIFJFU1RDT05GICh3aGlj aCBpcyBhbiBIVFRQLWJhc2VkIHByb3RvY29sKSBsYXllciBpcyBzdWZmaWNpZW50LiAgICANCg0K PiAyLiBJbiBzZWN0aW9uIDYuMSAiSWYgdGhlIHJlcXVlc3QgaXMgbWlzc2luZyBhIG1hbmRhdG9y eSBhdHRyaWJ1dGUgb3IgaXRzDQo+IGNvbnRhaW5zICIgc2hvdWxkIGJlICJpdCIgaW5zdGVhZCBv ZiAiaXRzIiAzLg0KDQpbTWVkXSBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIGNhdGNoaW5nIHRoaXMuIEZpeGVkLg0K DQogSW4gc2VjdGlvbiA3LjMgIkEgRE9UUyBjbGllbnQNCj4gcGVyaW9kaWNhbGx5IHF1ZXJpZXMg IC4uLiIuICBJIGRpZCBub3Qgc2VlIGFueSB0ZXh0IGFib3V0IHdoeSB0aGlzIGlzIGRvbmUgaXMN Cj4gdGhpcyBhIGNvbW1vbiBiZWhhdmlvcj8gaG93IG9mdGVuPyA0LiANCg0KW01lZF0gVGhpcyBp cyBsZWZ0IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucy4gV2UgZG9uJ3QgaGF2ZSBhbnkgc29saWQgYXJndW1l bnQgdG8gcmVjb21tZW5kIGEgdmFsdWUuIA0KDQoNCkFmdGVyIGZpZ3VyZSAyOSAiYm91bmQgdG8g YSBnaXZlbiBBQ0wNCj4gYXMNCj4gc2hvd24gaW4gRmlndXJlIDI4ICIgSSB0aGluayBpdCBzaG91 bGQgYmUgMjc/DQoNCltNZWRdIFRoaXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIEZpZ3VyZSAzMC4gRml4ZWQuIFRoYW5r cy4NCg0KIDUuIEluIGZpZ3VyZSAzMQ0KPiAiInBlbmRpbmctbGlmZXRpbWUiOiA4MDAwICwiIHdo eSA4MDAwIGFuZCBub3QgOTA4MCBhcyBpbiBmaWd1cmUgMjg/DQo+IA0KDQpbTWVkXSBUaGlzIGlz IGJlY2F1c2UgcGVuZGluZy1saWZldGltZSB3YXMgZGVjcmVtZW50ZWQgc2luY2UgdGhlIEdFVCBp biBGaWd1cmUgMjggd2FzIGlzc3VlZC4gICANCg== From nobody Thu Mar 7 04:29:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC3712785F; 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Thu, 7 Mar 2019 12:28:58 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM526-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.222]) by DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.210]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 20:28:48 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Datatracker on behalf of Roni Even , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU1M96HszzcMciF0iwB2qD1pPbmaX/+XRQgAAeAMA= Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 12:28:48 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18CB9C0D@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <155195406376.15866.11400149967812730230@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA352D6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA352D6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.69] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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OPEXCAUBM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::7873:1668:636f:52c%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 14:04:12 +0100 From: To: "Roni Even (A)" , Datatracker on behalf of Roni Even , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU1M96HszzcMciF0iwB2qD1pPbmaX/+XRQgAAeAMCAAAhoMA== Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 13:04:12 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA353C8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155195406376.15866.11400149967812730230@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA352D6@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18CB9C0D@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18CB9C0D@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 13:04:17 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpJIGhlYXIgeW91LCANCiANCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tTWVzc2FnZSBk J29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBSb25pIEV2ZW4gKEEpIFttYWlsdG86cm9uaS5ldmVuQGh1 YXdlaS5jb21dDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogamV1ZGkgNyBtYXJzIDIwMTkgMTM6MjkNCj4gw4DCoDog Qk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgVEdJL09MTjsgRGF0YXRyYWNrZXIgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIFJvbmkg RXZlbjsgZ2VuLQ0KPiBhcnRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gQ2PCoDogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kb3RzLWRhdGEt Y2hhbm5lbC5hbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGlldGZAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gT2Jq ZXTCoDogUkU6IEdlbmFydCBsYXN0IGNhbGwgcmV2aWV3IG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1kYXRh LWNoYW5uZWwtMjcNCj4gDQo+IEhpIE1lZCwNCj4gVGhhbmtzIEkgYW0gT0sgd2l0aCB5b3VyIHJl c3BvbnNlIG9ubHkgb3BlbiBvbmUNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiA+IGFkbWluaXN0cmF0b3IgZXZlbiBpZiBy ZWplY3RlZC4NCj4gDQo+IFtNZWRdIFRoaXMgaXMgZGVwbG95bWVudC1zcGVjaWZpYy4gRm9yIGV4 YW1wbGUsIGlmIGNvbmZsaWN0IGhhbmRsaW5nIHJlcXVpcmVzDQo+ICJub3RpZnkgYW4gYWRtaW5p 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OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8899:bbc3:9726:cd5e%22]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 8 Mar 2019 16:09:35 +0100 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHU1cBKOPUCl/5Od0e84+mZKJHbo6YB1XVw Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 15:09:34 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA364DE@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155205749391.3291.6600013239588052877.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155205749391.3291.6600013239588052877.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] TR: New Version 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Fri, 8 Mar 2019 21:25:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.93.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155210912949.26674.9642703807786942377@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2019 21:25:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2019 05:25:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements Authors : Andrew Mortensen Tirumaleswar Reddy Robert Moskowitz Filename : draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2019-03-08 Abstract: This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols enabling coordinated response to DDoS attacks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Mar 13 18:01:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6BCE131135 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:01:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HQ4KF5Fzw9BA for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D937B131110 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id z25so3275248ljk.8 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:01:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=A1BZXhzTAXEdg0xZ2SxI/dmpEmHwWHiCr3YCFTVwP6M=; b=fr8yASm+jYk93ykZlDCWyLhsDqZdfNxbIL0Mx2atks3Qh0QuVjN1X/xAnOIKCnFcbN XWMzBguymNOjzH1L4oJva79mZWo3yEZU40ZBEx3unXixkF+k3msiICmoVHrKyJrkNT7j 8NjzFSx/cjqjqXmUg/YywTPA/QAcsJVSVYgr++94BFcxgUVkQi+ToySYzXRHHoO2/ig3 hznM9WrYDgnRGGh4dwpqqg/dSYDuadkyacKCFQOnOoYckX7Mc2+u8At5+YXwMKaQ4AaT WaYQTPUSIV2yGZ4Po5G9cTpn7u0ZU672Dcb2bdQsHP1s36j5yXd07m/PJNmXF4SWea2p lqyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=A1BZXhzTAXEdg0xZ2SxI/dmpEmHwWHiCr3YCFTVwP6M=; b=h9GUF+8881r/Yq1xV40kZDMLjR+UEEjDwHlVJLad3HP6Ow4PrmLbtNVf5pkFUgTBGg bEM7P7UXLPbE1X6NoeuIF1bzqkP+Cn4LK/b06YbfheKiBTAWFVxYYcpnxFWypfwVGTZ1 lfxIH28qaD2zmBh+K1LatVT7itEuIJyu/hJObXhvFk1vmLUA9N2JrrEp6tR8KHAA6S+u ClnxoUFaqhAPzwZ3RWYqN35AansiN/SJTGZeTlq6gLtb+TUh4wqbecFAMsNpCfRst5n4 B/N381AqyfXP8BPfgG6xhJEGMdPLcdDfc3c81bVXuXdEBTgCYHDJoa614rkfB/Ey//Hc AgcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUJzWGLb2HoGiPoMqIpjfOsW0GiRA7RDVLJPqIGzFwYjN1/6kWc uGCqQYDihQsTbr1tIMPbqHPaWnXhaxGDZ0rK6iKIcZ1C X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwmJ/Ib3y0J3b+migMvBazTY709R0M44nFv0S4YhifJEYyUxWSYhBzuDeQaaMdaHLP3FWc0G8lUOmsKiVs0JBs= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8844:: with SMTP id z4mr7159744ljj.187.1552525266422; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:01:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155205537294.3320.15778450629857293232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155205537294.3320.15778450629857293232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: H Y Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:59:39 +0900 Message-ID: To: dots@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 01:01:11 -0000 Hi, all, I revised my draft "draft-h-dots-mitigation-offload-expansion-00". Main points of modifications are as below. 1) I withdrew my expansion of signal channel and I concentrated to write about use case, especially DMS offload use case. It was because I wanted this draft to become WG item as extended use case draft firstly. 2) I added problem section to clarify the problems to be solved. 3) I divided DMS offload use case into two case based on ML discussion with Tiru. One is that the DMS sends mitigation request to the orchestrator via out-of-band link, and the other one is that the DMS sends it via in-band link. I am demonstrating PoC of the "out-of-band" usecase using DOTS Data Channel ACL with latest go-dots. I will make a presentation about it in IETF 104. Thanks, Yuhei ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: 2019=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=888=E6=97=A5(=E9=87=91) 23:29 Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase-00.txt To: Yuhei Hayashi , Mohamed Boucadair , Kaname Nishizuka A new version of I-D, draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Yuhei Hayashi and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase Revision: 00 Title: DDoS Mitigation Offload: A DOTS Applicability Use Case Document date: 2019-03-08 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 9 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase= -00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecase-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload-usecas= e Abstract: This document describes the applicability of DOTS to a DDoS mitigation offload use case. This use case assumes that a DMS (DDoS Mitigation System) whose utilization rate is high sends its blocked traffic information to an orchestrator using DOTS protocols, then the orchestrator requests forwarding nodes such as routers to filter the traffic. Doing so enables service providers to mitigate DDoS attack traffic automatically while ensuring interoperability and distributed filter enforcement. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --=20 ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ---------------------------------- From nobody Thu Mar 14 08:33:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E477C130E89; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 08:33:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stephen Farrell via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Stephen Farrell Message-ID: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 08:33:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 15:33:35 -0000 Reviewer: Stephen Farrell Review result: Has Issues I think there's one issue with this draft that'd be well worth discussion and/or fixing: - p12: Why does the cuid need to be so static? I would have thought that an identifier that can change more often than a key pair would have been better, esp if this could be used in a CPE. (Creating a new long-lived identifier for a CPE seems like a bad plan if it's not really needed.) For example, one could use both the SPKI and a timestamp as input for a recommended way to generate a cuid and that should be as unique, but much more easily changed. That could also mitigate the possible TLS1.2 client-cert snooping issue mentioned on p90. nits: - (Not really a nit, but probably too much to ask, so...) The protocol here seems very complex. Has anyone tried to prove anything about the state machine, e.g. that's it's safe in some senses? It'd be fair to say that that is a good task to do after the initial RFC is published in this case, I guess. OTOH, could be some of the theorem-proving tools used in the development of TLS1.3 could be useful here. (And those tools usually do turn up some issues worth fixing - I'd bet a beer they would in this case:-) - p18: "Only single-valued 'cdid' are defined in this document." That confused me given the text 3 paras before about multiple cdid values. Maybe clarifying that some could be useful? - p77 has a few lowercase "should" and "must" statements. Not sure if that's on purpose or by accident. - p90: Is the mention of TCP-AO there for real? I'd be happy it it were but if it's merely aspirational and you don't think it'll be used, it'd be better to not pretend it might get used. - Couldn't a bad actor in control of an authorised DOTS client colluding with the controller of a DDoS attack use this to probe the system to see how their attack is going and change the attack to be more effective? I don't think any protocol change could help there, but perhaps you could give some guidance to implementers to try catch such cases (e.g., if the probing DOTS client's local n/w doesn't actually appear to be under attack). From nobody Thu Mar 14 09:17:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2024B130ECD; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7OV39uFmU85D; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD908130E58; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Kv466g6Vz2xlr; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 17:17:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.95]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Kv465PZFz3wbJ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 17:17:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b43f:9973:861e:42af%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 17:17:10 +0100 From: To: Stephen Farrell , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2ntKiSfaP6506UeavLvIGqIf7KYLQyKg Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:17:10 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Z2UgY291bGQgaGVscCB0aGVyZSwgYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMNCj4geW91IGNvdWxkIGdpdmUgc29tZSBn dWlkYW5jZSB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnRlcnMgdG8gdHJ5IGNhdGNoDQo+IHN1Y2ggY2FzZXMgKGUuZy4s IGlmIHRoZSBwcm9iaW5nIERPVFMgY2xpZW50J3MgbG9jYWwgbi93DQo+IGRvZXNuJ3QgYWN0dWFs bHkgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIHVuZGVyIGF0dGFjaykuDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Mar 14 09:40:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C92130E58; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:40:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VlUB_8SJr5f8; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F584130E16; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1DEBEC6; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:40:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZtprDUaBJBu; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:40:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (unknown [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 190DABEC3; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:40:21 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1552581621; bh=DqETg5CMahx9/l4zD3t8PJZH5INuFzH/+k4NOqR+kio=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=PEu74475Jh2dxBbBYjjn7zAbCqx+ui0nsE50KH6rvMRTd+DSblg3LZVigkfvGyH5U MJ7Qql5bJHTNz8YUGo0y9NcM/75C5UDDKNuWkDEpJqfC/9yc1O1H3JiOBKTpFGeQt8 G6E5hBn1ou/thvK0G97ubyNTJqUKchdy9LtvDXKQ= To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=5BB5A6EA5765D2C5863CAE275AB2FAF17B172BEA; url= Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh 5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+ QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKr 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16:40:16 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X0q8R5GWBBmyzSMJ9z3TxaHqWNpzvEIqh" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2019 16:40:29 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --X0q8R5GWBBmyzSMJ9z3TxaHqWNpzvEIqh Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="JNfyjY6aVRYdKeqOT6YquQnCiQdsTAheE"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> --JNfyjY6aVRYdKeqOT6YquQnCiQdsTAheE Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C8FF466762B1695E3CC8DE31" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C8FF466762B1695E3CC8DE31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, Just on two bits below... I'm happy to chat more but also fine that you and the ADs can sort this out according to however the ADs see this. On 14/03/2019 16:17, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >> I think there's one issue with this draft that'd be well worth >> discussion and/or fixing: >>=20 >> - p12: Why does the cuid need to be so static? I would have thought >> that an identifier that can change more often than a key pair would >> have been better, esp if this could be used in a CPE. (Creating a >> new long-lived identifier for a CPE seems like a bad plan if it's >> not really needed.) For example, one could use both the SPKI and a >> timestamp as input for a recommended way to generate a cuid and >> that should be as unique, but much more easily changed. That could >> also mitigate the possible TLS1.2 client-cert snooping issue >> mentioned on p90. >=20 > [Med] cuid is used for avoidance detection but also as a stable key > to identify resources at the server side. Any change of the cuid will > lead to a failure in accessing the resources. Furthermore, this > identifier is used to "glue" the signal and data channels. >=20 > The spec does not forbid the clients to change its cuid, but to do > so, the client will need to manage state migration. Yep, I get that. But the current alg that's described for cuid calculation has the effect of creating an identifier with the same lifetime as a key pair. Assuming keys are harder to change than cuids it seems better to encourage clients to not make such a tight linkage between cuid and keys, esp. if the client is on a CPE. (And it avoids the TLS1.2 snooping issue as noted.) I'd encourage you to consider maybe saying some more about how clients can change cuid, but even if not, to provide a cuid calculation example that doesn't link only to the key pair. >> - Couldn't a bad actor in control of an authorised DOTS client >> colluding with the controller of a DDoS attack use this to probe >> the system to see how their attack is going and change the attack >> to be more effective? >=20 > [Med] The client will only see the reports for attacks it detected > and signaled. That bad actor won't signal the attack in the first > place! Perhaps I wasn't clear. ISTM that all clients can get information about how an attack is being seen at other clients, isn't that right? (The spec does talk about that IIRC.) The colluding client might or might not be under attack but non-compromised clients will presumably ask for the attack to be mitigated. So the colluding client could use this protocol to probe and see how well or badly the DDoS-mitigation infrastructure is handling an ongoing attack. I'm basically saying that that may be noteworthy as a security consideration. Cheers, S. >=20 > I don't >> think any protocol change could help there, but perhaps you could >> give some guidance to implementers to try catch such cases (e.g., >> if the probing DOTS client's local n/w doesn't actually appear to >> be under attack). >>=20 >=20 --------------C8FF466762B1695E3CC8DE31 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV 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h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to: references; bh=o2YuleH9A00AsiGDyPx43mS+4k5dWF5nKJs/GLh5g2g=; b=T6gZXptN1gAhPPiuOPjsd4+WS7ihduM73OUCWaFbSjN9roRZ9mBoQnfYJ06ESOnTe2CemV MsdcBuxRhoUPJsveyZ0Xf/CtNJiaPTIR0PeRwdI7eR4tJzYt/ZIjlql7cHgKgVpsykpUOc 5xAQXomywXtG/jwTFu8hzmdyLPir0Tc= Received: from [IPv6:::1] (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id B3F7E75909D for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:00:37 +0900 (JST) To: "dots@ietf.org" From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <91566f58-0a68-06eb-9aff-afde58d43ceb@nttv6.jp> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:00:37 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C58B78E211370F01D3276281" Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: guri.nttv6.jp; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kaname@nttv6.jp Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] DOTS interop at IETF 104 Hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:00:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C58B78E211370F01D3276281 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, We're planning to conduct further interoperability testing of DOTS protocol. The result will be report back to WG meeting. Also, I'd like to make PoC of the newly proposed spec which was outcome of the last IETF interop.  * ​https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-05 I'm looking forward to seeing you soon. thanks, Kaname *DOTS Interop* * Champion(s) o Kaname Nishizuka o Jon Shallow o Liang 'Frank' Xia * Project(s) o DDoS Open Threat Signaling (DOTS). + The aim of DOTS is to develop a standards based approach for the realtime signaling of DDoS related telemetry and threat handling requests and data between elements concerned with DDoS attack detection, classification, traceback, and mitigation. o We will test the interoperability between independent implementations: + ​https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 + ​https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 o We will make some demo to demonstrate PoC of newly proposed spec. + ​https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-05 --------------C58B78E211370F01D3276281 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all,

We're planning to conduct further interoperability testing of DOTS protocol.
The result will be report back to WG meeting.
Also, I'd like to make PoC of the newly proposed spec which was outcome of the last IETF interop.
 * ​https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering-05

I'm looking forward to seeing you soon.

thanks,
Kaname

DOTS Interop

--------------C58B78E211370F01D3276281-- From nobody Thu Mar 14 19:50:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66155131175 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 19:50:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eHFZbOKj1Hi7 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 19:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 434F4131161 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 19:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee35c8b12d4d62-1a611; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:49:56 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee35c8b12d4d62-1a611 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc-PC (unknown[10.2.51.13]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee25c8b12d3d55-5c9f6; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:49:56 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee25c8b12d3d55-5c9f6 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:50:24 +0800 From: chenmeiling To: dots Cc: suli , pengjin X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019031510502433945017@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart627472354724_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] a simple introduction of draft-meiling-dots-attack-type-expansion-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 02:50:03 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart627472354724_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIGFsbCwNCg0KSSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgbXkgZHJhZnQgImRyYWZ0LW1laWxpbmctZG90cy1hdHRh Y2stdHlwZS1leHBhbnNpb24tMDAiIC4NCg0KTWFpbiBwb2ludHMgb2YgImRyYWZ0LW1laWxpbmct ZG90cy1hdHRhY2stdHlwZS1leHBhbnNpb24tMDAiIGFyZSBhcyBiZWxvdy4NCjEpIEkgZXhwbGFp bmVkIHdoeSBhdHRhY2sgdHlwZSBmaWVsZHMgYXJlIG5lZWRlZCBpbiB0aGUgaW50cm9kdWN0aW9u IHNlY3Rpb24uDQoyKSBJIG1vZGlmaWVkIHRoZSBwdXQgbWV0aG9kIG9mIG1pdGlnYXRpb24gcmVx dWVzdCwgYWRkIHRhcmdldC1hdHRhY2stdHlwZSBwYXJhbWV0ZXIsIHRoaXMgcGFyYW1ldGVyIGNv bnRhaW5zIGF0dGFjay1uYW1lIGFuZCBhdHRhY2stYWxpYXMuDQozKSBJIHB1dCBmb3J3YXJkIGEg c3RhbmRhcmQgb2YgYXR0YWNrIHR5cGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbi4NCg0KIEkgd2lsbCBtYWtlIGEgcHJl c2VudGF0aW9uIGFib3V0IGl0IGluIElFVEYgMTA0Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNCg0KDQoNCkJlc3Qg V2lzaGVzLg0KY2hlbm1laWxpbmcNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpSZXNl YXJjaCBpbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgQ2hpbmEgbW9iaWxlIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIGNvLiBMVEQNCklu c3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBzYWZldHkgdGVjaG5vbG9neQ0KRW1haWwgYWRkcmVzczogY2hlbm1laWxpbmdA Y2hpbmFtb2JpbGUuY29tDQpQaG9uZTogMTM4MTAxNDk1MTUNClRlbGVwaG9uZTogMTU4MDE2OTY2 ODgtMzQyODMNCkFkZHJlc3M6IG5vLiAzMiwgeHVhbnd1bWVuIHdlc3Qgc3RyZWV0LCB4aWNoZW5n IGRpc3RyaWN0LCBCZWlqaW5nIChtb2JpbGUgaW5ub3ZhdGlvbiBidWlsZGluZykNCg== ------=_001_NextPart627472354724_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A
=
Hi, all,

I submitted my draft = "draft-meiling-dots-attack-type-expansion-00" .

Main= points of "draft-meiling-do= ts-attack-type-expansion-00"= are as below.
1) 2) I modified the put method of mitigation = request, add target-attack-type parameter, this parameter contains attack-= name and attack-alias.
3) I put forward a standard of= attack type definition.

 I will m= ake a presentation about it in IETF 104.

Thanks,

=0A

=0A
<= !--[if gte mso 9]>=0A =0A =0A =0A <= /w:LsdException>=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A <= /w:LsdException>=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A <= /w:LsdException>=0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A <= w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Placehold= er Text">=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A= =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A= =0A =0A <= /w:LsdException>=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A= =0A =0A <= /w:LsdException>=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A <= /w:LsdException>=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A

Best Wi= shes.

chenmeiling

---------------------------= -----------------------------------------------------------

Research institute of China mobile communications co. LTD

Institute of safety technology

Email address: chenmeiling@= chinamobile.com

Phone: 13810149515

Telephone:= 15801696688-34283

Address: no. 32, xuanwumen west street, x= icheng district, Beijing (mobile innovation building)

=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart627472354724_=------ From nobody Thu Mar 14 20:09:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975411310D4 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 20:09:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.608 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.608 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2gl-0fcACnIf for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 20:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C328A129A87 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 20:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.13]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee15c8b177165f-1b20f; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:09:38 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee15c8b177165f-1b20f X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc-PC (unknown[10.2.51.13]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr07-12007 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee75c8b176eb9b-63a4b; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:09:37 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee75c8b176eb9b-63a4b Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:10:06 +0800 From: chenmeiling To: dots Cc: suli , pengjin X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019031511100430209232@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart161817726252_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] An introduction of draft draft-chen-dots-attack-bandwidth-expansion-01 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 03:09:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart161817726252_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIGFsbCwNCg0KSSBoYXZlIHN1Ym1pdHRlZCBteSBkcmFmdCAiZHJhZnQtY2hlbi1kb3RzLWF0 dGFjay1iYW5kd2lkdGgtZXhwYW5zaW9uLTAxIiAuDQoNCk1haW4gcG9pbnRzIG9mICJkcmFmdC1j aGVuLWRvdHMtYXR0YWNrLWJhbmR3aWR0aC1leHBhbnNpb24tMDAiIGFyZSBhcyBiZWxvdy4NCjEp IEkgZmlyc3QgcHV0IGZvcndhcmQgdGhlIE1pdGlnYXRpb24gVXNlIENhc2Ugb2YgdXNpbmcgcGFy YW1ldGVyIG9mIGF0dGFjay1iYW5kd2lkdGggdG8gZGlyZWN0bHkgZGlzY2FyZCBhdHRhY2sgZmxv dyB3aGVuIGEgaGlnaC10cmFmZmljIGF0dGFjayBvY2N1cnMgLg0KMikgSSBtb2RpZmllZCB0aGUg cHV0IG1ldGhvZCBvZiBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIHJlcXVlc3QsIGFkZCBhdHRhY2stYmFuZHdpZHRoIHBh cmFtZXRlcg0KDQpJbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQgImRyYWZ0LWNoZW4tZG90cy1hdHRhY2stYmFuZHdpZHRo LWV4cGFuc2lvbi0wMSIsIEkgYWRkZWQgdHdvIHNjZW5hcmlvcyBpbiB0aGUgc2VjdGlvbiBvZiBN aXRpZ2F0aW9uIFVzZSBDYXNlLg0KMSkgVXNlIHRoZSBhdHRhY2stYmFuZHdpZHRoIGZvciBvcHRp bWFsIGRldmljZSBzZWxlY3Rpb24uDQoyKSBVc2UgYXR0YWNrLWJhbmR3aWR0aCBmb3Igb3B0aW11 bSBwYXRoIGZvciBkaXNwb3NhbCwgc3VjaCBhcyBCR1AgcGF0aC4NCg0KIEkgd2lsbCBtYWtlIGEg cHJlc2VudGF0aW9uIGFib3V0IGl0IGluIElFVEYgMTA0Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNCg0KDQoNCkJl c3QgV2lzaGVzLg0KY2hlbm1laWxpbmcNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQpS ZXNlYXJjaCBpbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgQ2hpbmEgbW9iaWxlIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIGNvLiBMVEQN Ckluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBzYWZldHkgdGVjaG5vbG9neQ0KRW1haWwgYWRkcmVzczogY2hlbm1laWxp bmdAY2hpbmFtb2JpbGUuY29tDQpQaG9uZTogMTM4MTAxNDk1MTUNClRlbGVwaG9uZTogMTU4MDE2 OTY2ODgtMzQyODMNCkFkZHJlc3M6IG5vLiAzMiwgeHVhbnd1bWVuIHdlc3Qgc3RyZWV0LCB4aWNo ZW5nIGRpc3RyaWN0LCBCZWlqaW5nIChtb2JpbGUgaW5ub3ZhdGlvbiBidWlsZGluZykNCg== ------=_001_NextPart161817726252_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A
=
Hi, all,

I have submitte= d my draft "draft-chen-dots-attack-bandwidth-expansion-01" .
Main points of "draft-chen-dots-attack-bandwidth-expansion-00" are as below.
1) I first put forward the Mitigation Use Case of using parameter of = attack-bandwidth to directly discard attack flow when a hig= h-traffic attack occurs .
2) I modified the put method of mitiga= tion request, add attack-bandwidth parameter

In the draft "draf= t-chen-dots-attack-bandwidth-expansion-01", I added two scenari= os in the section of Mitigation Use Case.
1) Use = the attack-bandwidth for optimal device selection.

 I will make a pres= entation about it in IETF 104.

Thanks,


Best Wishes.

chenmeiling

--------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------<= /p>

Research institute of China mobile communications co. LTD

Institute of safety technology

Email address: chenmeil= ing@chinamobile.com

Phone: 13810149515

Telepho= ne: 15801696688-34283

Address: no. 32, xuanwumen west stre= et, xicheng district, Beijing (mobile innovation building)

=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart161817726252_=------ From nobody Thu Mar 14 21:30:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D721311B9; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:30:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yb2x6QsZkviN; Thu, 14 Mar 2019 21:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com (dnvwsmailout1.mcafee.com [161.69.31.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9221F1287C2; 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Thu, 14 Mar 2019 22:30:08 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2968.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.235.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1709.13; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 04:30:07 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1709.011; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 04:30:07 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Stephen Farrell" , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2oF5bx6+d1T5QkC+CtJqzs0JZ6YMGWiw Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 04:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [103.245.47.20] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1b477aee-341e-44d3-58e1-08d6a8fee784 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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44LGNH5sLtzCqkX; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:47:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d9:d3cd:85bd:d331%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:47:27 +0100 From: To: Stephen Farrell , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2oSfRsTGH2X350i3IMDpwuRCCqYMOY8A Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 06:47:27 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR 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IGFueSBwcm90b2NvbCBjaGFuZ2UgY291bGQgaGVscCB0aGVyZSwgYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMgeW91IGNv dWxkDQo+ID4+IGdpdmUgc29tZSBndWlkYW5jZSB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnRlcnMgdG8gdHJ5IGNhdGNo IHN1Y2ggY2FzZXMgKGUuZy4sDQo+ID4+IGlmIHRoZSBwcm9iaW5nIERPVFMgY2xpZW50J3MgbG9j YWwgbi93IGRvZXNuJ3QgYWN0dWFsbHkgYXBwZWFyIHRvDQo+ID4+IGJlIHVuZGVyIGF0dGFjayku DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4NCg== From nobody Fri Mar 15 00:39:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E041311EC; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:39:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XecqrQmYxhL0; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEF6A12797C; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 00:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44LHXD0996zCrqD; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 08:39:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.70]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44LHXC5qlKzDq7S; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 08:39:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM33.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c911:d24e:cc19:afa7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 08:39:23 +0100 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Stephen Farrell" , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2oF5RsTGH2X350i3IMDpwuRCCqYMGWiwgAA0gEA= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 07:39:22 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E549@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zsXkTRnQGmJa; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:19:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.244.2.138] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E0F3BE2F; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:19:48 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1552645188; bh=4DUlrRQj+1I2OoaidU2MFIEgnj3HAQIXJTaS/t6Drkc=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=WQHN2V+e1/hgT0Cr52CvO3wGCt0puwkfLMscHIE/oxZd25F6FYH1s+JInFYcmlpMs jbCH2Nyg22HZqCDNm1bg+JDbVIOkIeJNhd9L+Qp26R3QlPQB34P4Ji1hvfgl+M4q5M nGD+4OsImn+CpEU8SnO+YfTN9cUoMNsq0Rwn2wnk= To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=5BB5A6EA5765D2C5863CAE275AB2FAF17B172BEA; url= Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh 5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+ QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKr EMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZU bUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqO Vz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJg b097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k 4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 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draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:29:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --OcXCoFKm9TVvJwrQcAxLmBzpu94tZct4D Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="w4Cg8akEmAm3Zicc3wDePsYhvnIVJuOtr"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Message-ID: Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> --w4Cg8akEmAm3Zicc3wDePsYhvnIVJuOtr Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------52064FC41B35FBE73FC71E2E" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------52064FC41B35FBE73FC71E2E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 15/03/2019 06:47, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >> ISTM that all clients can get information >> about how an attack is being seen at other clients, isn't that >> right?=20 > [Med] No. A client can only get information that is bound to it.=20 Where does the spec say that? I don't recall the term "bound" used that way but may have missed it. And it still seems a bit hard to enforce. If two clients (one ok, one zombied) ask the same server/network how many packets targetted at 10.0.0/24 were dropped won't they get the same answer? (Assuming both clients are within that /24.) 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gihtNhkiCtWD; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 03:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45A7312423B; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 03:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44LMfd6VSJzym8; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:45:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.45]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44LMfd5jwkzDq7T; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:45:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::1c8e:403e:fbea:5835%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 11:45:13 +0100 From: To: Stephen Farrell , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2xicRsTGH2X350i3IMDpwuRCCqYMe/AA Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:45:12 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E6E1@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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X18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg== From nobody Fri Mar 15 05:27:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBCE131229; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pE-OLvFrrRVM; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 05:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47CD1130E62; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 05:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44LPvx1Zgnz2y5T; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:26:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.38]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44LPvx0rgrz2xCC; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:26:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::393d:418c:3f1d:991d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:26:53 +0100 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Stephen Farrell" , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2xxjRsTGH2X350i3IMDpwuRCCqYMhIbggAAWifA= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 12:26:52 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E789@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E6E1@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 1304A131244; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 06:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pt-3tN36Ie7u; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 06:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE5BE13124B; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 06:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C533826B; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 6326119BE; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6090312A4; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 09:21:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Konda\, Tirumaleswar Reddy" cc: "mohamed.boucadair\@orange.com" , "Stephen Farrell" , "secdir\@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all\@ietf.org" , "ietf\@ietf.org" , "dots\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E6E1@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:21:37 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: > Stephen is referring to an attack where a compromised DOTS client > initiates mitigation request for a target resource that is attacked and > learns the mitigation efficacy of the DOTS server, informs the > mitigation efficacy to DDoS attacker to change the DDoS attack > strategy. Is there a word for an an infantry troup who goes behind enemy lines in order to communicate how will the artilery is? I guess a modern form is these laser targetted missiles, where the target is "painted". I don't know if there are words for this kind of thing, but this would seem to describe the situation. > We can add the following lines to address his comment: > A compromised DOTS client can collude with a DDoS attacker to send > mitigation request for a target resource, learns the mitigation > efficacy from the DOTS server, and conveys the efficacy to the DDoS > attacker to learn the mitigation capabilities of the DDoS mitigation > and to possibly change the DDoS attack strategy. This attack can be > prevented by auditing the behavior of DOTS clients and authorizing the > DOTS client to request mitigation for specific target resources. If a resource is already under attack, there are already mitigation requests for that target, can a compromised DOTS client leaern anything by requesting mitigation on the same target? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlyLptwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVUegf/ZToxRCUEMrHnWSdIZqNMXvWR3DO4OQCcdRl5R+K1D6xlfSmZ2ka7vv3t JBhhdq+QFvBpSWpmnYNOXi3QTqn2yHW3/UhLP7vPGFYqJF3tY+NcHKfsWzzVy7+q JQrDKYmEm5msZx4DnLsqy3FdiC740YrWjmrZihpWuBegrRKgVCwQ6+J18wYqz6Vf l6pfPoIdKJPttRBzqpKCOoAPq4r0fttlNP14+1FCAUK7NRpMrtBl8QejkevhQzKK 4y32UnyJUuosq8WFKSl3BY7E6lEycbWqxoKj+CHXqPGskclPVrddqVE4TndYEe4o MxZFRziSFpp1zEhYJvIJ/7auIpdoDQ== =Fg0J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Mar 15 07:01:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71B2130D7A; 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Fri, 15 Mar 2019 08:00:55 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2982.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.235.208) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1709.14; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:00:54 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1709.011; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:00:54 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: Michael Richardson CC: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Stephen Farrell" , "secdir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2xxjG8gRJA7b406ek86bI9y+AKYMhIbggAApRACAAAhfcA== Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:00:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E6E1@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <10751.1552656092@localhost> In-Reply-To: <10751.1552656092@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR16MB2982; H:BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: McAfee.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: QJAj2f0OGKV1fe3zV6w9WPc6HhcDzhlhNI6f9ByCXLfpQLwYzWEacZNCYmmm5wqJDvlwwhbddrHxng/TeLss4Hn8j1+m7+9c7lDzaffFioxAKBooj0zqALzGHufTi9/tHXp0tECf5Kuk9E5Eo/bUUza1157cRXOn9rWkRkl+FssAj4sI/mMAaqXZbX8VlmzHJEpG3/RpOPu2JKNGx3HlISjXrZH7dPYWIabz/nBKF0w8QUJv4lGwh0tMsCDZDUDbnPvntSx6vOBgXqagtpwj/7fw+X00305Zu7mJCUWhTumQYoU3NA4VULwwboVC5AT1F6aD3hrnHN2+2erwUd5KYOPOYk8jppd2Ol/WV/2ejcJIeew3w+Nfj/YusVOSIWeAsZJy72/D0IyHpoFzj5LdGGosbdg3O1LIg9pBUA0kejY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4a6728d5-ae64-43a9-2159-08d6a94ea435 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Mar 2019 14:00:54.5551 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR16MB2982 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6504> : inlines <7034> : streams <1815781> : uri <2813263> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 14:01:17 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Richardson > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 6:52 PM > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > Cc: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Stephen Farrell > ; secdir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dots-signal- > channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 >=20 >=20 > Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: > > Stephen is referring to an attack where a compromised DOTS client > > initiates mitigation request for a target resource that is attacked= and > > learns the mitigation efficacy of the DOTS server, informs the > > mitigation efficacy to DDoS attacker to change the DDoS attack > > strategy. >=20 > Is there a word for an an infantry troup who goes behind enemy lines in o= rder > to communicate how will the artilery is? I guess a modern form is these = laser > targetted missiles, where the target is "painted". >=20 > I don't know if there are words for this kind of thing, but this would se= em to > describe the situation. >=20 > > We can add the following lines to address his comment: >=20 > > A compromised DOTS client can collude with a DDoS attacker to send > > mitigation request for a target resource, learns the mitigation > > efficacy from the DOTS server, and conveys the efficacy to the DDoS > > attacker to learn the mitigation capabilities of the DDoS mitigatio= n > > and to possibly change the DDoS attack strategy. This attack can be > > prevented by auditing the behavior of DOTS clients and authorizing = the > > DOTS client to request mitigation for specific target resources. >=20 > If a resource is already under attack, there are already mitigation reque= sts for > that target, can a compromised DOTS client leaern anything by requesting > mitigation on the same target ? I meant the scenario where the compromised DOTS client initiates the mitiga= tion request before the legitimate DOTS client sends the mitigation request= to the DOTS server. DOTS clients are typically trusted devices like Firewa= lls/IPS, DDoS mitigators/detectors. In future, application servers and endp= oints can act as DOTS clients. -Tiru >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works - > =3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- From nobody Sat Mar 16 03:27:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F52C129A87; Sat, 16 Mar 2019 03:27:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Brian Trammell via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Brian Trammell Message-ID: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 03:27:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:27:32 -0000 Reviewer: Brian Trammell Review result: Ready with Issues This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF discussion list for information. Apologies for missing the last call deadline; however I hope the input is useful. This document is basically ready; some issues and questions for the WG below. General Considerations, Data Channel Design ------------------------------------------------ On its own this document is okay from a transport considerations standpoint: the data channel does not have to operate in a degraded environment (i.e.,. on an interface under attack) and makes perfectly reasonable use of RESTCONF. The companion signal channel document will require (much) more careful attention from the transport directorate. Please pay attention to whatever your SECDIR review says anything about the use of TLS client authentication (as specified with mutual authentication). I suppose the use of mutual auth was inherited from RESTCONF, though? I'd be curious to know whether other client authentication schemes were considered. The use of cdid as a client rate association token and rate-limiter seems open to misconfiguration or misuse. Is there a concept for protecting against this beyond log-and-detect? Data Model Design -------------------- The target-fqdn element in the alias definition seems prone to cause confusing results if used naïvely (indeed the document itself points this out). On the other hand, in dynamic service environments it is quite useful for an alias to refer to a name as opposed to a set of addresses. Did the working group consider including some further context for the resoultion of these into IP addresses (for example, by providing a link to a DoT/DoH server to update the resolutions periodically)? If not, perhaps some text about doing this out of band would be helpful. Thanks, cheers, Brian From nobody Sun Mar 17 22:44:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9905F127817; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 22:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6DDCi4ZmYyg6; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 22:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com (dnvwsmailout1.mcafee.com [161.69.31.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9550F1274A1; 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Sun, 17 Mar 2019 23:42:33 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2696.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.197.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1709.13; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 05:42:32 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9c48:452b:e39c:ef39%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1709.015; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 05:42:32 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: Brian Trammell , "tsv-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU2+Ll7N28W1ey7UW60/hdaXljoaYQ1O3A Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 05:42:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [49.37.203.5] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 802d9130-cbbc-47ba-3c2b-08d6ab648444 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B489D1310EE; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 00:13:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BDs99Od12uXC; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 00:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65BE51277CD; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 00:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44N6pv562Zz5w68; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 08:13:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.23]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44N6pv1pC8zyQ2; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 08:13:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::857d:4f67:b0a7:10d7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 08:13:27 +0100 From: To: Brian Trammell , "tsv-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU2+LfrKr0BWVJlEaZqwr/cHEGW6YQ7B3g Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 07:13:26 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3EF14@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> 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aXRlDQo+IHVzZWZ1bA0KPiBmb3IgYW4gYWxpYXMgdG8gcmVmZXIgdG8gYSBuYW1lIGFzIG9wcG9z ZWQgdG8gYSBzZXQgb2YgYWRkcmVzc2VzLiBEaWQgdGhlDQo+IHdvcmtpbmcNCj4gZ3JvdXAgY29u c2lkZXIgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHNvbWUgZnVydGhlciBjb250ZXh0IGZvciB0aGUgcmVzb3VsdGlvbiBv ZiB0aGVzZQ0KPiBpbnRvDQo+IElQIGFkZHJlc3NlcyAoZm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIGJ5IHByb3ZpZGlu ZyBhIGxpbmsgdG8gYSBEb1QvRG9IIHNlcnZlciB0byB1cGRhdGUNCj4gdGhlIHJlc29sdXRpb25z IHBlcmlvZGljYWxseSk/DQoNCltNZWRdIFRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBzdGF0ZXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2lu ZzogIA0KDQogICAgICBIb3cgYSBuYW1lIGlzIHBhc3NlZCB0byBhbiB1bmRlcmx5aW5nIG5hbWUg cmVzb2x1dGlvbiBsaWJyYXJ5IGlzDQogICAgICBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbi0gYW5kIGRlcGxveW1l bnQtc3BlY2lmaWMuIA0KDQpXZSBjb3VsZCBpbmNsdWRlIHNvbWUgdGV4dCBzaW1pbGFyIHRvIFJG Qzc5NjkgKFNlY3Rpb24gNyksIGJ1dCBzdGlsbCB0aGlzIGlzIGRlcGxveW1lbnQtc3BlY2lmaWMu ICANCg0KIElmIG5vdCwgcGVyaGFwcyBzb21lIHRleHQgYWJvdXQgZG9pbmcgdGhpcyBvdXQNCj4g b2YgYmFuZCB3b3VsZCBiZSBoZWxwZnVsLg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzLCBjaGVlcnMsDQo+IA0KPiBC cmlhbg0KPiANCg0K From nobody Mon Mar 18 02:40:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C83128766; Mon, 18 Mar 2019 02:40:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org, Liang Xia , dots-chairs@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= Message-ID: <155290200654.26031.16715637987602692482.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 02:40:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-dots-requirements-21=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 09:40:07 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my discuss. There is still my comment about references for SIG-002: For PLMTUD the correct reference is RFC4821, however, as commented by Joe, RFC1191 is less reliable and therefore usually not recommended. I would recommend to re-add a reference to RFC4821 and no reference to RFC1191 (or only with a warning that RFC4821 is preferred due to ICMP blocking). Further, the correct reference for datagram PLMTUD is draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud. I would recommend to add a reference to this draft as well. And this general comment still holds: I understand that having wg consensus for this document is import to proceed the work of the group, however, I don't see the value in archiving this document in the IETF RFC series as a stand-alone document. If the group thinks documenting these requirements for consumption outside the group's work at a later point in time is valuable, I would rather recommend to add the respective requirements to the appendix of the respective protocol specs. From nobody Tue Mar 19 11:47:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8D32131588; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:47:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ines Robles via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Ines Robles Message-ID: <155302123390.18121.11238708473411552768@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:47:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 18:47:14 -0000 Reviewer: Ines Robles Review result: Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Reviewer: Ines Robles Review Date: 2019-03-19 IETF LC End Date: 2019-03-19 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: I believe the draft is technically good. This document is well written and clear to understand. The draft is quite complete. The document specifies the Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) signal channel, a protocol for signaling the need for protection against Distributed Denial-of-Service (DDoS) attacks to a server capable of enabling network traffic mitigation on behalf of the requesting client. Major issues: Not found Minor issues: Not found Nits/editorial comments: Not found Thanks for this document, Ines. From nobody Sat Mar 23 03:55:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12D2127817; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8h-OMij5BjQ4; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 095A71200ED; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x2NAtcSM024311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 23 Mar 2019 06:55:40 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 05:55:38 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] please welcome new DOTS co-chair Valery Smyslov X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 10:55:44 -0000 Hi all, As Roman will be stepping down as co-chair to take up the mantle of Security AD, I would like to introduce Valery Smyslov as the incoming DOTS co-chair. Please give Valery a warm welcome! I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Roman for his time as co-chair, as well as a belated thanks to Tobias for his service -- I never gave him a proper send-off! I'm confident that Frank and Valery will keep us moving forward, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone in Prague! -Ben From nobody Sat Mar 23 04:00:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B2112B001; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 04:00:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sA4wse2ciWCP; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 04:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 999311293B1; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 04:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 517E9F056200F9E0C9C4; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 11:00:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 11:00:48 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.21]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 19:00:46 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: Benjamin Kaduk , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: please welcome new DOTS co-chair Valery Smyslov Thread-Index: AQHU4Wb7iEsd+um1wUeA67UieraBmKYZC5nw Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 11:00:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.220.65.77] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogcGxlYXNlIHdlbGNvbWUgbmV3IERPVFMgY28t?= =?gb2312?b?Y2hhaXIgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3Y=?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 11:00:53 -0000 VGhhbmtzIEJlbiBmb3IgdGhlIGludHJvZHVjdGlvbiBvZiBvdXIgbmV3IGNvLWNoYWlyOiBWYWxl cnkuDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgUm9tYW4ncyBncmVhdCBlZmZvcnRzIGFuZCBjb250cmlidXRpb25z IGZvciBET1RTIFdHIGZyb20gdGhlIHZlcnkgYmVnaW5uaW5nIQ0KDQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0t LS0NCreivP7IyzogQmVuamFtaW4gS2FkdWsgW21haWx0bzprYWR1a0BtaXQuZWR1XSANCreiy83K sbzkOiAyMDE5xOoz1MIyM8jVIDExOjU2DQrK1bz+yMs6IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCrOty806IGRv dHMtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBwbGVhc2Ugd2VsY29tZSBuZXcgRE9UUyBjby1jaGFp ciBWYWxlcnkgU215c2xvdg0KDQpIaSBhbGwsDQoNCkFzIFJvbWFuIHdpbGwgYmUgc3RlcHBpbmcg ZG93biBhcyBjby1jaGFpciB0byB0YWtlIHVwIHRoZSBtYW50bGUgb2YgU2VjdXJpdHkgQUQsIEkg d291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBpbnRyb2R1Y2UgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3YgYXMgdGhlIGluY29taW5nIERP VFMgY28tY2hhaXIuICBQbGVhc2UgZ2l2ZSBWYWxlcnkgYSB3YXJtIHdlbGNvbWUhDQoNCkknZCBh bHNvIGxpa2UgdG8gdGFrZSB0aGlzIG9wcG9ydHVuaXR5IHRvIHRoYW5rIFJvbWFuIGZvciBoaXMg dGltZSBhcyBjby1jaGFpciwgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBhIGJlbGF0ZWQgdGhhbmtzIHRvIFRvYmlhcyBm b3IgaGlzIHNlcnZpY2UgLS0gSSBuZXZlciBnYXZlIGhpbSBhIHByb3BlciBzZW5kLW9mZiENCg0K SSdtIGNvbmZpZGVudCB0aGF0IEZyYW5rIGFuZCBWYWxlcnkgd2lsbCBrZWVwIHVzIG1vdmluZyBm b3J3YXJkLCBhbmQgSSdtIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCB0byBzZWVpbmcgZXZlcnlvbmUgaW4gUHJh Z3VlIQ0KDQotQmVuDQo= From nobody Sat Mar 23 21:04:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F6C130DD8; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 21:04:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-dots-requirements@ietf.org, Liang Xia , dots-chairs@ietf.org, frank.xialiang@huawei.com, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Eric Rescorla Message-ID: <155340026191.15648.14916696285023540405.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 21:04:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 04:04:22 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe we have come to a satisfactory resolution and Benjamin will ensure that the correct changes are made. From nobody Sat Mar 23 22:34:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD2B12B003; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 22:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id efE-h8MuJDqY; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 22:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73FF5129BBF; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 22:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6B02752DB5A230B7436C; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 05:34:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.214) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 05:34:52 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.21]) by DGGEMM406-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.214]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 13:34:49 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: "dots@ietf.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Hi, DOTS draft authors, please send the chairs your presentation materials: Thread-Index: AdTiAySWikasBk2yRs2+tdQw0fgoBg== Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 05:34:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.220.71.160] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA16405dggemm511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Hi, DOTS draft authors, please send the chairs your presentation materials: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 05:34:56 -0000 --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA16405dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Please send to us before Wednesday night, thanks! B.R. Frank --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA16405dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Please send to us before Wednes= day night, thanks!

 

B.R.

Frank

--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12CA16405dggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Sun Mar 24 04:58:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4313B126C01; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 04:58:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org header.d=gondrom.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PioxxXEqxR8j; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 04:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gondrom.org (www.gondrom.org [5.35.241.16]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C979B127981; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 04:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Ophanim (bb219-74-14-99.singnet.com.sg [219.74.14.99]) by gondrom.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A70A669863; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 12:58:15 +0100 (CET) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=gondrom.org; b=nT1OqCGEzFd5tzFD4lne3EBlNBPh+bYXvIvqtLBZOewvZo0MTbVsVFIqdLC7o+NRzyJDpuDYfL8u6Zt5z6hqJA7dXBfeKKvPKyKnTiejL0DSQ08iRNEhOu7AooH2h3YoEFvgNhr9eEY7kYicjFmmXqIIK1DSKXXE1u1Lico5UNI=; h=From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Content-Language:Thread-Index; From: To: "'Benjamin Kaduk'" , Cc: References: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 19:58:11 +0800 Message-ID: <019101d4e238$dd15b3e0$97411ba0$@gondrom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQDreDCcLyVLP6CBAzZg9RBzfE8LRqftgLjA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] please welcome new DOTS co-chair Valery Smyslov X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:58:22 -0000 Hi all,=20 All the best wishes to the new DOTS WG chairs.=20 Looking forward to the great output from this WG coming to fruition. = =F0=9F=98=8A=20 It was a great pleasure working with the team and sending you all the = best wishes from afar.=20 See you in Autumn, at 106 in Singapore.=20 Cheers and all the best, Tobias -----Original Message----- From: Dots On Behalf Of Benjamin Kaduk Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2019 6:56 PM To: dots@ietf.org Cc: dots-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Dots] please welcome new DOTS co-chair Valery Smyslov Hi all, As Roman will be stepping down as co-chair to take up the mantle of = Security AD, I would like to introduce Valery Smyslov as the incoming = DOTS co-chair. Please give Valery a warm welcome! I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Roman for his time as = co-chair, as well as a belated thanks to Tobias for his service -- I = never gave him a proper send-off! I'm confident that Frank and Valery will keep us moving forward, and I'm = looking forward to seeing everyone in Prague! -Ben _______________________________________________ Dots mailing list Dots@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Sun Mar 24 11:24:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F6912001B; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:24:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TECdhepxA-YX; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFE5112001A; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 361094FDF39E1AEAEE54; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:24:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM422-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:24:15 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.21]) by dggemm422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 02:24:13 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: "tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org" CC: "dots-chairs@ietf.org" , 'Benjamin Kaduk' , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] please welcome new DOTS co-chair Valery Smyslov Thread-Index: AQHU4Wb7iEsd+um1wUeA67UieraBmKYaKMqAgADxVeA= Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:24:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> <019101d4e238$dd15b3e0$97411ba0$@gondrom.org> In-Reply-To: <019101d4e238$dd15b3e0$97411ba0$@gondrom.org> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.220.70.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgcGxlYXNlIHdlbGNvbWUgbmV3IERPVFMg?= =?utf-8?q?co-chair_Valery_Smyslov?= X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:24:20 -0000 SGkgVG9iaWFzLA0KUmVhbGx5IGhhcHB5IHRvIHNlZSB5b3UgaGVyZSBhZ2Fpbn5+DQoNCkkgc2hh cmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgZmVlbGluZyB3aXRoIHlvdSBhbmQgYW0gbG9va2luZyBmb3J3YXJkIHRvIHNl ZWluZyB5b3UgaW4gU2luZ2Fwb3JlLg0KDQpCLlIuDQpGcmFuaw0KDQotLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7 ti0tLS0tDQrlj5Hku7bkuro6IHRvYmlhcy5nb25kcm9tQGdvbmRyb20ub3JnIFttYWlsdG86dG9i aWFzLmdvbmRyb21AZ29uZHJvbS5vcmddIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDE55bm0M+aciDI05pel IDEyOjU4DQrmlLbku7bkuro6ICdCZW5qYW1pbiBLYWR1aycgPGthZHVrQG1pdC5lZHU+OyBkb3Rz QGlldGYub3JnDQrmioTpgIE6IGRvdHMtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnDQrkuLvpopg6IFJFOiBbRG90 c10gcGxlYXNlIHdlbGNvbWUgbmV3IERPVFMgY28tY2hhaXIgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3YNCg0KSGkg YWxsLCANCg0KQWxsIHRoZSBiZXN0IHdpc2hlcyB0byB0aGUgbmV3IERPVFMgV0cgY2hhaXJzLiAN Ckxvb2tpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCB0byB0aGUgZ3JlYXQgb3V0cHV0IGZyb20gdGhpcyBXRyBjb21pbmcg dG8gZnJ1aXRpb24uIPCfmIogDQoNCkl0IHdhcyBhIGdyZWF0IHBsZWFzdXJlIHdvcmtpbmcgd2l0 aCB0aGUgdGVhbSBhbmQgc2VuZGluZyB5b3UgYWxsIHRoZSBiZXN0IHdpc2hlcyBmcm9tIGFmYXIu IA0KDQpTZWUgeW91IGluIEF1dHVtbiwgYXQgMTA2IGluIFNpbmdhcG9yZS4gDQoNCkNoZWVycyBh bmQgYWxsIHRoZSBiZXN0LCBUb2JpYXMNCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0K RnJvbTogRG90cyA8ZG90cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgQmVuamFtaW4g S2FkdWsNClNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAyMywgMjAxOSA2OjU2IFBNDQpUbzogZG90c0Bp ZXRmLm9yZw0KQ2M6IGRvdHMtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbRG90c10gcGxlYXNl IHdlbGNvbWUgbmV3IERPVFMgY28tY2hhaXIgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3YNCg0KSGkgYWxsLA0KDQpB cyBSb21hbiB3aWxsIGJlIHN0ZXBwaW5nIGRvd24gYXMgY28tY2hhaXIgdG8gdGFrZSB1cCB0aGUg bWFudGxlIG9mIFNlY3VyaXR5IEFELCBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gaW50cm9kdWNlIFZhbGVyeSBT bXlzbG92IGFzIHRoZSBpbmNvbWluZyBET1RTIGNvLWNoYWlyLiAgUGxlYXNlIGdpdmUgVmFsZXJ5 IGEgd2FybSB3ZWxjb21lIQ0KDQpJJ2QgYWxzbyBsaWtlIHRvIHRha2UgdGhpcyBvcHBvcnR1bml0 eSB0byB0aGFuayBSb21hbiBmb3IgaGlzIHRpbWUgYXMgY28tY2hhaXIsIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgYSBi ZWxhdGVkIHRoYW5rcyB0byBUb2JpYXMgZm9yIGhpcyBzZXJ2aWNlIC0tIEkgbmV2ZXIgZ2F2ZSBo aW0gYSBwcm9wZXIgc2VuZC1vZmYhDQoNCkknbSBjb25maWRlbnQgdGhhdCBGcmFuayBhbmQgVmFs ZXJ5IHdpbGwga2VlcCB1cyBtb3ZpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCwgYW5kIEknbSBsb29raW5nIGZvcndhcmQg dG8gc2VlaW5nIGV2ZXJ5b25lIGluIFByYWd1ZSENCg0KLUJlbg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KRG90cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkRvdHNA aWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0KDQo= From nobody Mon Mar 25 00:32:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA9C120353; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 00:32:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QBLNYRlJ82gH; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 00:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3E03120365; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 00:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.infomaniak.ch (smtp7.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.30]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x2P7VsgJ023881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:31:54 +0100 Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:8d22:6e7f:4584:4295] ([IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:8d22:6e7f:4584:4295]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp7.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x2P7VrIP112742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:31:54 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3EF14@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:31:53 +0100 Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <01403930-4D01-4A40-945F-CE820CCB87E9@trammell.ch> References: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3EF14@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 07:32:01 -0000 hi Med, Thanks for the reply, apologies for the delay, > On 18 Mar 2019, at 08:13, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >=20 > Hi Brian,=20 >=20 > Thank you for the review.=20 >=20 > Please see inline.=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Brian Trammell via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] >> Envoy=C3=A9 : samedi 16 mars 2019 11:28 >> =C3=80 : tsv-art@ietf.org >> Cc : draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = dots@ietf.org >> Objet : Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 >>=20 >> Reviewer: Brian Trammell >> Review result: Ready with Issues >>=20 >> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review = team's >> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were = written >> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the = document's >> authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to = the >> IETF >> discussion list for information. >>=20 >> Apologies for missing the last call deadline; however I hope the = input is >> useful. >>=20 >> This document is basically ready; some issues and questions for the = WG below. >>=20 >> General Considerations, Data Channel Design >> ------------------------------------------------ >>=20 >> On its own this document is okay from a transport considerations = standpoint: >> the data channel does not have to operate in a degraded environment = (i.e.,. >> on an >> interface under attack) and makes perfectly reasonable use of = RESTCONF. The >> companion signal channel document will require (much) more careful = attention >> from the transport directorate. >>=20 >> Please pay attention to whatever your SECDIR review says anything = about the >> use of TLS client authentication (as specified with mutual = authentication). >>=20 >> I suppose the use of mutual auth was inherited from RESTCONF, though? >=20 > [Med] No, this was a design requirement = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-21#section-2.4).= The same security profile is used for both signal and data channels. =20= Okay, thanks for the pointer. >> I'd be curious to know whether other client authentication schemes = were >> considered. >=20 > [Med] Which schemes do you have in mind? Nothing in particular; I'm just under the impression that client auth is = seen as a second-class feature of TLS, so I wonder how the decision to = use it impacts implementability and deployability of DOTS. Someone more = up to date on the state of TLS can probably make a more authoritative = statement here. >> The use of cdid as a client rate association token and rate-limiter = seems >> open to >> misconfiguration or misuse. >=20 > [Med] I guess you are referring to policies at the server (because = rate-limits at the gateway rely upon the client identity). =20 ... where the client identity is derived from cdid alone, or cdid / = 3-tuple? > Is there a concept for protecting against this >> beyond >> log-and-detect? >=20 > [Med] We do have the following generic recommendation (from the = requirements I-D): >=20 > "DOTS operators should carefully > monitor and audit DOTS agents to detect misbehavior and to deter > misuse" so, "no". :) That's fine, this is a hard problem, and rate limitations = are still one of the only tools that works consistently. Calling out = which parts of the protocol are vulnerable to state space exhaustion on = the server, though, would be sueful. >=20 >>=20 >> Data Model Design >> -------------------- >>=20 >> The target-fqdn element in the alias definition seems prone to cause >> confusing results if used na=C3=AFvely (indeed the document itself = points >> this out). On the other hand, in dynamic service environments it is = quite >> useful >> for an alias to refer to a name as opposed to a set of addresses. Did = the >> working >> group consider including some further context for the resoultion of = these >> into >> IP addresses (for example, by providing a link to a DoT/DoH server to = update >> the resolutions periodically)? >=20 > [Med] The document states the following: =20 >=20 > How a name is passed to an underlying name resolution library is > implementation- and deployment-specific.=20 >=20 > We could include some text similar to RFC7969 (Section 7), but still = this is deployment-specific. =20 Okay, as long as we think the uncertainty in resolution is something = that will work as expected for DOTS clients. Cheers, Brian >=20 > If not, perhaps some text about doing this out >> of band would be helpful. >>=20 >> Thanks, cheers, >>=20 >> Brian >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Tsv-art mailing list > Tsv-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art From nobody Mon Mar 25 01:43:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E72A4120375; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:43:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155350339587.22369.9472263097254219031@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:43:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:43:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling Requirements Authors : Andrew Mortensen Tirumaleswar Reddy Robert Moskowitz Filename : draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2019-03-25 Abstract: This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols enabling coordinated response to DDoS attacks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Mar 25 01:50:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A513012037A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:50:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VofhJGi2x-Tq for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNVWSMAILOUT1.mcafee.com (dnvwsmailout1.mcafee.com [161.69.31.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7B00120379 for ; 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Mon, 25 Mar 2019 02:49:34 -0600 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.178.233.91) by BYAPR16MB2599.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (20.177.226.204) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1730.18; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:49:32 +0000 Received: from BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::45af:2add:90a4:135f]) by BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::45af:2add:90a4:135f%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1730.019; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:49:32 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "dots@ietf.org" CC: Benjamin Kaduk , Eric Rescorla Thread-Topic: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt Thread-Index: AQHU4ub2gNJ2EAU8AEOaJ8v7pEdjdaYcCUdg Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:49:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <155350339587.22369.9472263097254219031@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155350339587.22369.9472263097254219031@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.2.0.6 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR16MB2599; H:BYAPR16MB2790.namprd16.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: McAfee.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 2cMVG4aCEun9lNCXy3M7Lk7IYrDA18jjZ76KGUhPw5YEmszorNvwWw/OBKddOFUPKAyOk+QbSCFRGoUkOKVADdR3hR8ydDfHSp5c9SnOxTH5elUX78Ms6T8IuqZ1zhs+ikVeTaJZMU7TjPqJEfnEbzUroyCBY5e8OlyLUFlGfEyp3OVh54aHYxTCiYM7BAN1fkJGRk339ew0l/KOyHXO2RN3ROw2LHc5mYM8KMIKhHQo2HwBAbM9CMDN6Ye7xNJYfHDMBusuYmmy/7BTPC/xPXyUXYrTfa3cCWFpIooEiOoS9JKbrHrACg+0l75Z1ZcQAh5PZUhkoA2pB7PbibHG/dI3X4vJ+ZSSLRUN4B17IWKU9al9Y9eIT1I8rsEjHDb0lu1vnciNZOT890FCosIMs9h+eAZvmRro+uJq9HteFvo= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: abea88e6-6eed-4d09-96d1-08d6b0fecd16 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Mar 2019 08:49:32.6684 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR16MB2599 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6509> : inlines <7042> : streams <1816714> : uri <2819257> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:50:05 -0000 This revision addresses comments from Eric. -Tiru > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 9:43 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: dots@ietf.org > Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IET= F. >=20 > Title : Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) Open Threa= t Signaling > Requirements > Authors : Andrew Mortensen > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Robert Moskowitz > Filename : draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2019-03-25 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines the requirements for the Distributed Denial of > Service (DDoS) Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) protocols enabling > coordinated response to DDoS attacks. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-requirements/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-requirements-22 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dots-requirements-22 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Mar 25 06:04:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642841203F5; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:04:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LnLpqnytruw8; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55C441203EF; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44SZGK2yP4z8tB3; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:04:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.70]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44SZGK1kLYz5vMq; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:04:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM33.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c911:d24e:cc19:afa7%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:04:08 +0100 From: To: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" CC: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU4tzUe3mbbawDM0mOIueG+9QlmqYcS5NQ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:04:08 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4BA1D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3EF14@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01403930-4D01-4A40-945F-CE820CCB87E9@trammell.ch> In-Reply-To: <01403930-4D01-4A40-945F-CE820CCB87E9@trammell.ch> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8891203EF; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uymi6g0tnB3r; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC0781203F0; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.infomaniak.ch (smtp7.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.30]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x2PDDPJc006553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:13:25 +0100 Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:9c9d:200:27a8:68c3] ([IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:9c9d:200:27a8:68c3]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp7.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x2PDDOmQ131608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:13:24 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4BA1D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:13:23 +0100 Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6AEB03FE-5AFD-4303-A159-11E8A9856C43@trammell.ch> References: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3EF14@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01403930-4D01-4A40-945F-CE820CCB87E9@trammell.ch> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4BA1D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:13:32 -0000 > On 25 Mar 2019, at 14:04, = wrote: >=20 > Hi Brian, >=20 > Please see inline. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Brian Trammell (IETF) [mailto:ietf@trammell.ch] >> Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 25 mars 2019 08:32 >> =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN >> Cc : tsv-art@ietf.org; draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org; >> ietf@ietf.org; dots@ietf.org >> Objet : Re: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of = draft-ietf-dots-data- >> channel-27 >>=20 >> hi Med, >>=20 >> Thanks for the reply, apologies for the delay, >>=20 >>> On 18 Mar 2019, at 08:13, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Brian, >>>=20 >>> Thank you for the review. >>>=20 >>> Please see inline. >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>>=20 >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Brian Trammell via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] >>>> Envoy=C3=A9 : samedi 16 mars 2019 11:28 >>>> =C3=80 : tsv-art@ietf.org >>>> Cc : draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; >> dots@ietf.org >>>> Objet : Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 >>>>=20 >>>> Reviewer: Brian Trammell >>>> Review result: Ready with Issues >>>>=20 >>>> This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area = review >> team's >>>> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were = written >>>> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the >> document's >>>> authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also = to the >>>> IETF >>>> discussion list for information. >>>>=20 >>>> Apologies for missing the last call deadline; however I hope the = input is >>>> useful. >>>>=20 >>>> This document is basically ready; some issues and questions for the = WG >> below. >>>>=20 >>>> General Considerations, Data Channel Design >>>> ------------------------------------------------ >>>>=20 >>>> On its own this document is okay from a transport considerations >> standpoint: >>>> the data channel does not have to operate in a degraded environment >> (i.e.,. >>>> on an >>>> interface under attack) and makes perfectly reasonable use of = RESTCONF. >> The >>>> companion signal channel document will require (much) more careful >> attention >>>> from the transport directorate. >>>>=20 >>>> Please pay attention to whatever your SECDIR review says anything = about >> the >>>> use of TLS client authentication (as specified with mutual >> authentication). >>>>=20 >>>> I suppose the use of mutual auth was inherited from RESTCONF, = though? >>>=20 >>> [Med] No, this was a design requirement = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft- >> ietf-dots-requirements-21#section-2.4). The same security profile is = used for >> both signal and data channels. >>=20 >> Okay, thanks for the pointer. >>=20 >>>> I'd be curious to know whether other client authentication schemes = were >>>> considered. >>>=20 >>> [Med] Which schemes do you have in mind? >>=20 >> Nothing in particular; I'm just under the impression that client auth = is seen >> as a second-class feature of TLS, so I wonder how the decision to use = it >> impacts implementability and deployability of DOTS. Someone more up = to date >> on the state of TLS can probably make a more authoritative statement = here. >>=20 >>>> The use of cdid as a client rate association token and rate-limiter = seems >>>> open to >>>> misconfiguration or misuse. >>>=20 >>> [Med] I guess you are referring to policies at the server (because = rate- >> limits at the gateway rely upon the client identity). >>=20 >> ... where the client identity is derived from cdid alone, or cdid / = 3-tuple? >>=20 >=20 > [Med] It is based on the cdid. 'cdid' is assumed to be supplied by a = trusted gateway: >=20 > DOTS servers MUST ignore 'cdid' attributes that are directly > supplied by source DOTS clients or client-domain DOTS gateways. > This implies that first server-domain DOTS gateways MUST strip > 'cdid' attributes supplied by DOTS clients. DOTS servers SHOULD > support a configuration parameter to identify DOTS gateways that > are trusted to supply 'cdid' attributes. ahhh... Okay, this is good, thanks. >>> Is there a concept for protecting against this >>>> beyond >>>> log-and-detect? >>>=20 >>> [Med] We do have the following generic recommendation (from the >> requirements I-D): >>>=20 >>> "DOTS operators should carefully >>> monitor and audit DOTS agents to detect misbehavior and to deter >>> misuse" >>=20 >> so, "no". :) That's fine, this is a hard problem, and rate = limitations are >> still one of the only tools that works consistently. Calling out = which parts >> of the protocol are vulnerable to state space exhaustion on the = server, >> though, would be sueful. >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Data Model Design >>>> -------------------- >>>>=20 >>>> The target-fqdn element in the alias definition seems prone to = cause >>>> confusing results if used na=C3=AFvely (indeed the document itself = points >>>> this out). On the other hand, in dynamic service environments it is = quite >>>> useful >>>> for an alias to refer to a name as opposed to a set of addresses. = Did the >>>> working >>>> group consider including some further context for the resoultion of = these >>>> into >>>> IP addresses (for example, by providing a link to a DoT/DoH server = to >> update >>>> the resolutions periodically)? >>>=20 >>> [Med] The document states the following: >>>=20 >>> How a name is passed to an underlying name resolution library is >>> implementation- and deployment-specific. >>>=20 >>> We could include some text similar to RFC7969 (Section 7), but still = this >> is deployment-specific. >>=20 >> Okay, as long as we think the uncertainty in resolution is something = that >> will work as expected for DOTS clients. >>=20 >=20 > [Med] While assuming that name resolution is deployment-specific, I = added this NEW text to avoid misbehaviors: >=20 > When FQDNs are used as targets, the DOTS server MUST rely upon DNS > privacy enabling protocols (e.g., DNS over TLS [RFC7858], DoH > [RFC8484]) to prevent eavesdroppers from possibly identifying the > target resources protected by the DDoS mitigation service and means > to ensure the target FQDN resolution is authentic (e.g., DNSSEC > [RFC4034]). While this doesn't fix the resolution-context problem (which is in the = general case anyway probably unfixable), it is a very welcome addition. = :) Thanks, cheers, Brian > Thank you for the review. >=20 >> Cheers, >>=20 >> Brian >>=20 >>>=20 >>> If not, perhaps some text about doing this out >>>> of band would be helpful. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, cheers, >>>>=20 >>>> Brian >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tsv-art mailing list >>> Tsv-art@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Tsv-art mailing list > Tsv-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsv-art From nobody Wed Mar 27 00:02:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7524212025D; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 00:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7OP5RlCXH0A; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 00:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 933BE12025A; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 00:02:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=7GUeeqU4EdO1r+YFciJT4DOw5XAQlHLQzxl4avIVj0U=; b=pbIqavod4yh5NgoVJySlqms50q 24YKGWH5suDDugBnQP8iX8TdMPGktcQjQvUrb7vVjSE1xYskY0+kiOlE1e9OmOsjzTjFlAMD/kq87 f3NK9v5JDI7bVYprbOsBh1Ad3O0ImOM3O19XT7vZtlaS3UxBBgOjU+mW1p8sFuCPgt3ZAL1stJ/zT oGsbExnuFSVWPM5RWqbSBm9eQdWW0tEWBG1nefyRirNKglp0MVp9jbzMFY1Osms3T4LZNiRWrrUQ1 1zp3ubtUGXesCBWGXeix+Bk7caV2K8tyPe2iverGhGvSxL5Dl6xjMTxa0Nt5nuLUkSOqORf4yJ2Hl PmNgf2zw==; Received: from [81.0.251.129] (port=54701 helo=svannotebook) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h92a5-0001bf-Jm; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 03:02:37 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: References: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190323105537.GL88959@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:02:35 +0300 Message-ID: <090c01d4e46b$0feb00c0$2fc10240$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQDreDCcLyVLP6CBAzZg9RBzfE8LRqfx4Udg Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] please welcome new DOTS co-chair Valery Smyslov X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:02:42 -0000 Hi all, first, I'm glad to be assigned as co-chair of this group, so thanks to Ben for this. And thanks to Frank and Roman for quick introduction into DOTS. I apologize for not being able to present in person at Thursday's meeting, since it will be at the same time as ipsecme meeting, where I have two presentations and a lot of stuff to discuss. Sorry, but this kind of conflict cannot be resolved before, since the assignment was done after the agenda has been settled. Anyway, I'm here till Friday, so if you have any questions you can find me somewhere at IETF meeting site. I hope our work in DOTS will be productive. Regards, Valery Smyslov (new DOTS co-chair). > Hi all, > > As Roman will be stepping down as co-chair to take up the mantle of Security > AD, I would like to introduce Valery Smyslov as the incoming DOTS co-chair. > Please give Valery a warm welcome! > > I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank Roman for his time as co-chair, as > well as a belated thanks to Tobias for his service -- I never gave him a proper > send-off! > > I'm confident that Frank and Valery will keep us moving forward, and I'm > looking forward to seeing everyone in Prague! > > -Ben > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Mar 28 03:11:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C946012028B for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:11:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Vak5Cu1LP98 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFC17120271 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x2SABIpj002977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:11:20 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 05:11:18 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190328101118.GJ67070@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] on cyclical normative dependencies X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:11:26 -0000 During the session today, Med mentioned at the mic that if we moved the content from draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering into the signal channel document, then we would have a normative dependency from the signal channel on the data channel (and the data channel already depends normatively on the signal channel), as if this would be problematic. I don't think this is inherentely problematic, as it just means that the two documents will advance together as a group. It's still a useful tool to be able to separate the content out into logically separate documents even if they are interdependent and in some sense must be considered together as a consolidated group. We see this pattern occur regularly in the IETF, and it's not worrisome. So I don't think that the cyclical dependency is a reason to leave signal-control-filtering as a separate document (but I do agree with the sentiment in the room that we may want to let this document settle in for a while before we decide that we're happy with it), but given the trend of the discussion it didn't seem worth spending the time to say it at the microphone. -Ben From nobody Thu Mar 28 03:29:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974A612046F for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:29:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fE1Bd4rBaaqF for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EAFE120404 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h9SHk-0006v6-Dz; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:29:24 +0000 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Benjamin Kaduk'" , References: <20190328101118.GJ67070@kduck.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20190328101118.GJ67070@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:29:22 -0000 Message-ID: <101c01d4e551$1dbcc850$593658f0$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQENbm1LhTHgSHrGFe+coXchoXDVUKevw+Kg Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] on cyclical normative dependencies X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:29:40 -0000 We already have an interaction/dependency between the signal and data channel over the use of aliases, adding in acls interaction/dependency should not make much difference if we are going for moving draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering into signal draft. Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin > Kaduk > Sent: 28 March 2019 10:11 > To: dots@ietf.org > Subject: [Dots] on cyclical normative dependencies > > During the session today, Med mentioned at the mic that if we moved the > content from draft-nishizuka-dots-signal-control-filtering into the signal > channel document, then we would have a normative dependency from the > signal > channel on the data channel (and the data channel already depends > normatively on the signal channel), as if this would be problematic. > > I don't think this is inherentely problematic, as it just means that the > two documents will advance together as a group. It's still a useful tool > to be able to separate the content out into logically separate documents > even if they are interdependent and in some sense must be considered > together as a consolidated group. We see this pattern occur regularly in > the IETF, and it's not worrisome. > > So I don't think that the cyclical dependency is a reason to leave > signal-control-filtering as a separate document (but I do agree with the > sentiment in the room that we may want to let this document settle in for a > while before we decide that we're happy with it), but given the trend of > the discussion it didn't seem worth spending the time to say it at the > microphone. > > -Ben > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Mar 28 03:37:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C34812024B for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:37:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mR-K_WjqBFeI for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBFB41200A4 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:6::f]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 319CF25F6A1 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:37:46 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1553769466; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to: references; bh=UdH3k8kEnlp81/0eRes5oHvC4plSEHZ0i0WC/dC+4Ik=; b=IwiCaxizYGLdKBsSMXMCgrwMOJIbzbSgydEU8f3jyE38X4w+Bkv2zkq3sGuIMC2SxxZYqk AwNneVVnOInd4TFNzWFLvWYV0/iyVs99X4ygLNRbCxLCKuRe55nOBZ6lU0LNXgi+lHjfxV 68x2WGoe1XwdtT5Pnan5Nl4CSVB4Gp8= Received: from dhcp-8181.meeting.ietf.org (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 5F99F759079 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:37:45 +0900 (JST) To: dots@ietf.org From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <946bcc8c-2e3e-3b09-b8d1-631475ea0ea0@nttv6.jp> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:37:44 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: guri.nttv6.jp; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kaname@nttv6.jp Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:37:51 -0000 Hi, I'd like to continue discussion of these topics in the ML. #1: Questions about signal-control-filtering  1. Should a mitigation request create a mitigation before doing a PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] against the active mitigation, or is a ‘PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}]’ allowed to create a new mitigation?  2. Should the response to a GET (or Observed GET) include the acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] if the PUT included it?  3. Does the response to the PUT (the echoed back response payload of the PUT representation https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.9.1.1 ) include the acl-list (if defined) or not?  4. Is the activation change to the ACL a permanent change to the ACL (so a GET on the data channel returns the new type)?  5. Does the activation change to the ACL count as an ACL refresh (pending-lifetime update)?  6. Is CBOR activation –type comprehension-required or comprehension-optional? Regarding with the 1st point, we got feedbacks from Med and Tiru that both should be allowed. If ‘PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}]’ allowed to create a new mitigation, it should be treated as this is a request in "attack-time". (#2: Data Channel Implicit protocol number was addressed clearly by Med's comment.) #3: (D)TLS session lifetime From the view point of DOTS server, when to expire the old (D)TLS session is implementation specific though, I'd like to hear from experts about preferable setting (timer or something else...?) thanks, Kaname From nobody Thu Mar 28 03:47:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4FB4120251 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:47:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=zeit-co.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7UwHD0naWu-j for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 054AF120243 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id h16so12702573ljg.11 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:47:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zeit-co.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Nsz386tLxCJmu2j8S4QU3iZnVUVDhaJVOdpHTqsPt+s=; b=ZACcCJTroqj9Ac7VutXWyHaBx6IKBKDpVIJEIEEbQQ/xe897QZqBqb6MZ4KKkJyRQ8 e609nTIHWZy3yS8ydst3lGsaUznt/5QtYAt0dV7UcE+GfOzjAHdvx5gr0p7xozSwtZk/ q3ERZG2DF4Lt2rDFebokXX7u09ICcqjpx0uXgCc+LTojmA6DOcAHqupnHiXRcDpm+kCS Y3HhSR7F+JJRrvwjb45O46/42PtRBSLMXZrmAIUvl5wDJc8pGcuccxI+KfC5xHHFRmJg p1bMqaKhc/f4rDQBsCrVPZA1es7AzUi1W0Gz8asmqCbFZqQT9gH8ZHCIsD4u3aPSoi1l Amxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Nsz386tLxCJmu2j8S4QU3iZnVUVDhaJVOdpHTqsPt+s=; b=Q7Vpq+vVfvnprMzTJGJysFTRPTVEVXSVl+CK6z4NWcFaQu3+HoR9LiLXSDVxta0pDO 9R2hnJzk0F0Qt3ta53h3EnvVs7RXS/PfcPyRDi+ri8MmJW0LYFEpuO/LoyG93oyFfEp5 lZkv6/hbHkTv6K+UaPpSdZLNcWjyAveFQc378RrfQvmrA9Vs310+UmcChl2R+Ghbo6jt rCgbVObMxkrfwZ0AN9jOxuXJtSZLLFkTZAwqvt1Ze0109/uMyP1BkD8tC1sidPfRw7xa sVTo0ETcUD0VtV53rC1krAhImFIfEyEUoifZgOojVHCLP8h28+fjnzWdafU6PYpCv42A k8Mg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXYc3ooahFxaKys7mYL0SNzKu3Cv+3uN110DnFK3/gqe5QfFuyE utBsLLB8kfhypW0FhxcVeBrvRT/yu3r/9BUyNcDvpnASrdU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzK3aWmNOfW+PKjL8cIF3BBHt0RMPlvrdgE3Mm0iRpQZ8szneSrF7VdgGrVPLKM6i8zR3uW38Iequ4sa5v+K4k= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2f06:: with SMTP id v6mr22750699ljv.139.1553770067275; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:47:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <946bcc8c-2e3e-3b09-b8d1-631475ea0ea0@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <946bcc8c-2e3e-3b09-b8d1-631475ea0ea0@nttv6.jp> From: Olli Vanhoja Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:47:36 +0100 Message-ID: To: kaname nishizuka Cc: dots@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:47:51 -0000 Some additional questions. I saw somewhere a probably outdated spec with a version ned URL /.well-known/dots/v1/mitigate This was however dropped from the draft: /.well-known/dots/mitigate Why is this? Wouldn't it be a good idea to allow versioning somewhere, either in the request path or the request body? Was there any consideration about PKI and/or key distribution? Or should implementors and users solve this? From nobody Thu Mar 28 03:50:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A5E3120251 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:50:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f4cm9S7_vAbW for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3DAC12027F for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 03:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VM8r0LrCz2xbQ for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:50:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.82]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VM8q5xGtzBrLf for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:50:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::849f:f804:b713:d99a%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:50:35 +0100 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call Home: use cases Thread-Index: AdTlVBC2f+Kq2pp7T/ew+qPWxoRG/g== Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:50:34 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4EACA@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4EACAOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Call Home: use cases X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:50:41 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4EACAOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re-, FWIW, to the comment about the applicability of the solution, I'd like to c= larify that the I-D states the following: =3D=3D 1.3. Scope The aforementioned problems may be encountered in other deployments than those discussed Section 1.1. The solution proposed in this document can be used for those deployments to block DDoS attack traffic closer to the source(s) of the attack. =3D=3D Cheers, Med --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4EACAOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Re-,

 

FWIW, to the comment about the applicabilit= y of the solution, I’d like to clarify that the I-D states the follow= ing:

 

=3D=3D

 
1.3. Scope
 
   The aforementioned problems may be e=
ncountered in other deployments
   than those discussed Section 1.1.  =
The solution proposed in this
   document can be used for those deplo=
yments to block DDoS attack
   traffic closer to the source(s) of t=
he attack.

 

=3D=3D

 

Cheers,

Med

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4EACAOPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Thu Mar 28 06:09:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FDC120444; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:08:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155377853776.1592.11691818945018771953@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:08:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:09:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy Mohamed Boucadair Prashanth Patil Andrew Mortensen Nik Teague Filename : draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31.txt Pages : 101 Date : 2019-03-28 Abstract: This document specifies the DOTS signal channel, a protocol for signaling the need for protection against Distributed Denial-of- Service (DDoS) attacks to a server capable of enabling network traffic mitigation on behalf of the requesting client. A companion document defines the DOTS data channel, a separate reliable communication layer for DOTS management and configuration purposes. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements within the document with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" o "RFC XXXX: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel Specification"; o "| [RFCXXXX] |" o reference: RFC XXXX Please update this statement with the RFC number to be assigned to the following documents: o "RFC YYYY: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification (used to be I-D.ietf-dots-data- channel) Please update TBD/TBD1/TBD2 statements with the assignments made by IANA to DOTS Signal Channel Protocol. Also, please update the "revision" date of the YANG modules. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Mar 28 06:09:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBE112042E; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:09:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155377854902.1406.18436937778716562832@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:09:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:09:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Filename : draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28.txt Pages : 71 Date : 2019-03-28 Abstract: The document specifies a Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) data channel used for bulk exchange of data that cannot easily or appropriately communicated through the DOTS signal channel under attack conditions. This is a companion document to the DOTS signal channel specification. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) Please update these statements within the document with the RFC number to be assigned to this document: o "This version of this YANG module is part of RFC XXXX;" o "RFC XXXX: Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification"; o reference: RFC XXXX Please update the "revision" date of the YANG module. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-28 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Mar 28 06:39:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF721204D0 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:38:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGZrwbUCcT97 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60A4A1204B9 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VQv12R0vz7tn1; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:38:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.26]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VQv11dLGz1xns; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:38:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM31.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::34b6:11d0:147f:6560%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:38:53 +0100 From: To: kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AQHU5VJSCfVXhciSq0+ZqKxGOtsoYqYhCgDA Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:38:52 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4ED61@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <946bcc8c-2e3e-3b09-b8d1-631475ea0ea0@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: <946bcc8c-2e3e-3b09-b8d1-631475ea0ea0@nttv6.jp> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:39:06 -0000 UmUtLCANCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1l c3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogRG90cyBbbWFpbHRvOmRvdHMtYm91bmNlc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZ10gRGUgbGEgcGFydCBkZSBrYW5hbWUgbmlzaGl6dWthDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogamV1 ZGkgMjggbWFycyAyMDE5IDExOjM4DQo+IMOAwqA6IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDog W0RvdHNdIGNsYXJpZmljYXRpb24gcXVlc3Rpb25zIGZyb20gdGhlIGhhY2thdGhvbg0KPiANCj4g SGksDQo+IA0KPiBJJ2QgbGlrZSB0byBjb250aW51ZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIHRoZXNlIHRvcGlj cyBpbiB0aGUgTUwuDQo+IA0KPiAjMTogUXVlc3Rpb25zIGFib3V0IHNpZ25hbC1jb250cm9sLWZp bHRlcmluZw0KPiAgwqAxLiBTaG91bGQgYSBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIHJlcXVlc3QgY3JlYXRlIGEgbWl0 aWdhdGlvbiBiZWZvcmUgZG9pbmcgYSBQVVQgKw0KPiBhY2wtbGlzdCBbe2FjbC1uYW1lLCBhY3Rp dmF0aW9uLXR5cGV9XSBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBhY3RpdmUgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiwgb3IgaXMgYQ0KPiDi gJhQVVQgKyBhY2wtbGlzdCBbe2FjbC1uYW1lLCBhY3RpdmF0aW9uLXR5cGV9XeKAmSBhbGxvd2Vk IHRvIGNyZWF0ZSBhIG5ldw0KPiBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uPw0KDQpbTWVkXSBCb3RoIGFyZSBjdXJyZW50 bHkgYWxsb3dlZCBpbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQuIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc3RpbGwgYSB2YWxpZCByZWFzb24gdG8g cmVzdHJpY3QgdGhpcy4gDQoNCj4gIMKgMi4gU2hvdWxkIHRoZSByZXNwb25zZSB0byBhIEdFVCAo b3IgT2JzZXJ2ZWQgR0VUKSBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSBhY2wtbGlzdA0KPiBbe2FjbC1uYW1lLCBhY3Rp dmF0aW9uLXR5cGV9XSBpZiB0aGUgUFVUIGluY2x1ZGVkIGl0Pw0KDQpbTWVkXSBUaGUgY3VycmVu dCBzcGVjIHNheXMgIm5vIi4gVGhhdCdzIHNhaWQsIHdoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgdGhlIHZhbHVlIGlu IHJldHVybmluZyBpdD8gVGhlbiwgd2h5IG5vdCBhbGxvd2luZyB0byByZXR1cm4gdGhlIHJlZmVy ZW5jZXMgdG8gYWxsIEFDTHMgdGhhdCBhcmUgZW5hYmxlZCBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIG1pdGlnYXRpb24g dGltZT8NCg0KPiAgwqAzLiBEb2VzIHRoZSByZXNwb25zZSB0byB0aGUgUFVUICh0aGUgZWNob2Vk IGJhY2sgcmVzcG9uc2UgcGF5bG9hZCBvZiB0aGUNCj4gUFVUIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uIGh0dHBz Oi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9yZmM3MjUyI3NlY3Rpb24tNS45LjEuMSApDQo+IGluY2x1 ZGUgdGhlIGFjbC1saXN0IChpZiBkZWZpbmVkKSBvciBub3Q/DQoNCltNZWRdIEl0IGRvZXNuJ3Qg YXMgd2UgZG9uJ3QgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBiZWhhdmlvciBvZiB0aGUgYmFzZSBzcGVjLg0KDQo+ICDC oDQuIElzIHRoZSBhY3RpdmF0aW9uIGNoYW5nZSB0byB0aGUgQUNMIGEgcGVybWFuZW50IGNoYW5n ZSB0byB0aGUgQUNMIChzbyBhDQo+IEdFVCBvbiB0aGUgZGF0YSBjaGFubmVsIHJldHVybnMgdGhl IG5ldyB0eXBlKT8NCg0KW01lZF0gWWVzLiBUaGUgZHJhZnQgd2lsbCBiZSB1cGRhdGVkIHRvIG1h a2UgdGhpcyBjbGVhcmVyLiANCg0KPiAgwqA1LiBEb2VzIHRoZSBhY3RpdmF0aW9uIGNoYW5nZSB0 byB0aGUgQUNMIGNvdW50IGFzIGFuIEFDTCByZWZyZXNoIChwZW5kaW5nLQ0KPiBsaWZldGltZSB1 cGRhdGUpPw0KDQpbTWVkXSBZZXMuIFNvbWUgdGV4dCB3aWxsIGJlIGFkZGVkIHRvIGNsYXJpZnkg dGhlIHJlZnJlc2ggcG9pbnQuIFRoYXQncyBzYWlkLCBhcyBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhlIGRhdGEt Y2hhbm5lbCwgdGhlIGRvdHMgY2xpZW50IG1heSBuZWVkIHRvIHNlbmQgYSBHRVQgYWZ0ZXIgYW4g YXR0YWNrIGZvciBzeW5jIHB1cnBvc2VzLg0KDQo+ICDCoDYuIElzIENCT1IgYWN0aXZhdGlvbiDi gJN0eXBlIGNvbXByZWhlbnNpb24tcmVxdWlyZWQgb3IgY29tcHJlaGVuc2lvbi0NCj4gb3B0aW9u YWw/DQo+IA0KDQpbTWVkXSBUaGlzIGlzIGEgY29tcHJlaGVuc2lvbi1yZXF1aXJlZCBhdHRyaWJ1 dGUgKGFscmVhZHkgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGluIHRoZSBkcmFmdCkuDQoNCj4gUmVnYXJkaW5nIHdpdGgg dGhlIDFzdCBwb2ludCwgd2UgZ290IGZlZWRiYWNrcyBmcm9tIE1lZCBhbmQgVGlydSB0aGF0IGJv dGgNCj4gc2hvdWxkIGJlIGFsbG93ZWQuDQo+IElmIOKAmFBVVCArIGFjbC1saXN0IFt7YWNsLW5h bWUsIGFjdGl2YXRpb24tdHlwZX1d4oCZIGFsbG93ZWQgdG8gY3JlYXRlIGEgbmV3DQo+IG1pdGln YXRpb24sIGl0IHNob3VsZCBiZSB0cmVhdGVkIGFzIHRoaXMgaXMgYSByZXF1ZXN0IGluICJhdHRh Y2stdGltZSIuDQoNCltNZWRdIEkgY29uZmlybS4NCg0KPiANCj4gKCMyOiBEYXRhIENoYW5uZWwg SW1wbGljaXQgcHJvdG9jb2wgbnVtYmVyIHdhcyBhZGRyZXNzZWQgY2xlYXJseSBieSBNZWQncw0K PiBjb21tZW50LikNCj4gDQo+ICMzOiAoRClUTFMgc2Vzc2lvbiBsaWZldGltZQ0KPiAgRnJvbSB0 aGUgdmlldyBwb2ludCBvZiBET1RTIHNlcnZlciwgd2hlbiB0byBleHBpcmUgdGhlIG9sZCAoRClU TFMgc2Vzc2lvbiBpcw0KPiBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBzcGVjaWZpYyB0aG91Z2gsIEknZCBsaWtl IHRvIGhlYXIgZnJvbSBleHBlcnRzIGFib3V0DQo+IHByZWZlcmFibGUgc2V0dGluZyAodGltZXIg b3Igc29tZXRoaW5nIGVsc2UuLi4/KQ0KPiANCg0KW01lZF0gRm9yIG1lLCB0aGlzIGlzIGltcGxl bWVudGF0aW9uLXNwZWNpZmljLiAgDQoNCj4gdGhhbmtzLA0KDQpbTWVkXSBNYW55IHRoYW5rcyBm b3Igc2hhcmluZyB0aGUgZmVlZGJhY2sgZnJvbSB0aGUgaGFja2F0aG9uLiBNdWNoIGFwcHJlY2lh dGVkLiANCg0KPiBLYW5hbWUNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IERvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kb3RzDQo= From nobody Thu Mar 28 06:57:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F13120466 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:56:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F3B_QyHHysoK for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92DA31204BD for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VRHb1Lg8zCrgH; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:56:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.64]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VRHb0Rmnz8sYR; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:56:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::90fe:7dc1:fb15:a02b%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:56:42 +0100 From: To: Olli Vanhoja , kaname nishizuka CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AQHU5VO3CfVXhciSq0+ZqKxGOtsoYqYhDJ7w Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:56:42 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4EDD0@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <946bcc8c-2e3e-3b09-b8d1-631475ea0ea0@nttv6.jp> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 13:56:59 -0000 Hi Olli, Please see inline.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Olli Vanhoja > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 28 mars 2019 11:48 > =C0=A0: kaname nishizuka > Cc=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >=20 > Some additional questions. >=20 > I saw somewhere a probably outdated spec with a version ned URL > /.well-known/dots/v1/mitigate > This was however dropped from the draft: > /.well-known/dots/mitigate >=20 > Why is this? Wouldn't it be a good idea to allow versioning somewhere, > either in the request path or the request body? [Med] That change was made to reflect a change in the requirements I-D with= regards to versioning. The spec relies on two sets of attributes (comprehe= nsion-required, comprehension-optional) to extend the protocol by adding ne= w features instead of bumping the version number.=20 >=20 > Was there any consideration about PKI and/or key distribution? Or > should implementors and users solve this? >=20 [Med] This is left to deployments. Existing specs do only say the following= : A key challenge to deploying DOTS is the provisioning of DOTS clients, including the distribution of keying material to DOTS clients to enable the required mutual authentication of DOTS agents. Enrollment over Secure Transport (EST) [RFC7030] defines a method of certificate enrollment by which domains operating DOTS servers may provide DOTS clients with all the necessary cryptographic keying material, including a private key and a certificate to authenticate themselves. One deployment option is DOTS clients behave as EST clients for certificate enrollment from an EST server provisioned by the mitigation provider. This document does not specify which EST or other mechanism the DOTS client uses to achieve initial enrollment. Having deployment guidelines would be helpful, though.=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Mar 28 09:13:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A175120309; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 09:13:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <155378963547.1490.18144442563962876468@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 09:13:55 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 16:13:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Server Discovery Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Prashanth Patil Filename : draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-00.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-03-28 Abstract: It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be under attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are undertaken. This document specifies mechanisms to configure nodes with DOTS servers. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Mar 28 10:05:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59DBE120319 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:05:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVVdKihtETJs for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2E8612024A for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h9YT3-0007B2-Tk; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:05:30 +0000 From: "Jon Shallow" To: , "kaname nishizuka" , Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:05:27 -0000 Message-ID: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AdTliGx+SHuMyqAwQXGIbxMDIEwnuA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:05:44 -0000 Hi All, See inline Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ietf- > supjps-mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Sent: 28 March 2019 13:39 > To: kaname nishizuka; dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >=20 > Re-, >=20 > Please see inline. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de kaname = nishizuka > > Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 28 mars 2019 11:38 > > =C3=80 : dots@ietf.org > > Objet : [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon > > > > Hi, > > > > I'd like to continue discussion of these topics in the ML. > > > > #1: Questions about signal-control-filtering > > 1. Should a mitigation request create a mitigation before doing a = PUT + > > acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] against the active = mitigation, or is a > > =E2=80=98PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}]=E2=80=99 = allowed to create a new > > mitigation? >=20 > [Med] Both are currently allowed in the draft. I don't still a valid = reason to > restrict this. [Jon] As per draft A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal channel if no attack (mitigation) is active; [Jon] then needs to be reworded as there is no active mitigation until = the PUT is done... I believe that both cases should be supported. >=20 > > 2. Should the response to a GET (or Observed GET) include the = acl-list > > [{acl-name, activation-type}] if the PUT included it? >=20 > [Med] The current spec says "no". That's said, what would be the value = in > returning it? Then, why not allowing to return the references to all = ACLs that > are enabled during the mitigation time? >=20 [Jon] When observing the mitigation request, if the activation-type is = changed externally, the client will then know about the change. Assuming = the response got back to the client, this is effectively an ACK to the = fact that the ACL change got through. Interesting concept about knowing about all the relevant ACLs as = returned over the signal channel. More work for the server to do in = determining which ACLs are valid for, say, a specific IP address that is = being mitigated. Not entirely convinced of the benefit of this as this = generally is available over the data channel. > > 3. Does the response to the PUT (the echoed back response payload = of the > > PUT representation = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.9.1.1 ) > > include the acl-list (if defined) or not? >=20 > [Med] It doesn't as we don't change the behavior of the base spec. >=20 [Jon] By base spec I assume you mean the signal draft. However the = answer has to be "yes - it is included" if following RFC7252 5.9.1.1 and = "The payload returned with the response, if any, is a representation of = the action result". =20 Again, it is letting the client know that the PUT actually did get = through (assuming the response gets through) prior to doing any GETs. ~jon > > 4. Is the activation change to the ACL a permanent change to the = ACL (so a > > GET on the data channel returns the new type)? >=20 > [Med] Yes. The draft will be updated to make this clearer. >=20 > > 5. Does the activation change to the ACL count as an ACL refresh = (pending- > > lifetime update)? >=20 > [Med] Yes. Some text will be added to clarify the refresh point. = That's said, as > discussed in the data-channel, the dots client may need to send a GET = after > an attack for sync purposes. >=20 > > 6. Is CBOR activation =E2=80=93type comprehension-required or = comprehension- > > optional? > > >=20 > [Med] This is a comprehension-required attribute (already discussed in = the > draft). >=20 > > Regarding with the 1st point, we got feedbacks from Med and Tiru = that both > > should be allowed. > > If =E2=80=98PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}]=E2=80=99 = allowed to create a new > > mitigation, it should be treated as this is a request in = "attack-time". >=20 > [Med] I confirm. >=20 > > > > (#2: Data Channel Implicit protocol number was addressed clearly by = Med's > > comment.) > > > > #3: (D)TLS session lifetime > > From the view point of DOTS server, when to expire the old (D)TLS = session > is > > implementation specific though, I'd like to hear from experts about > > preferable setting (timer or something else...?) > > >=20 > [Med] For me, this is implementation-specific. >=20 > > thanks, >=20 > [Med] Many thanks for sharing the feedback from the hackathon. Much > appreciated. >=20 > > Kaname > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Mar 28 10:39:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0042012002F for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:39:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sHiBPpfy5wCJ for ; 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DQo+ID4gPiBEb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFu L2xpc3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IERvdHMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZG90cw0KPiANCj4gX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gRG90cyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCj4gRG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCg== From nobody Thu Mar 28 10:58:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA95F1202FB for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FJiY-CdOJNp5 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27F661202FA for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 10:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h9ZI2-0007Cv-7x; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:58:10 +0000 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , , "kaname nishizuka" , References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:58:07 -0000 Message-ID: <109501d4e58f$cea682d0$6bf38870$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQHt3r5uLxQCm36T4hpiV9AQ3uXfywKMRTmlpdr88ZA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 17:58:31 -0000 Hi there, See inline Jon1 Regards Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Sent: 28 March 2019 17:39 > To: Jon Shallow; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; kaname nishizuka; > dots@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >=20 > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de kaname > > > > nishizuka Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 28 mars 2019 11:38 =C3=80 : = dots@ietf.org Objet > > > > : [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I'd like to continue discussion of these topics in the ML. > > > > > > > > #1: Questions about signal-control-filtering > > > > 1. Should a mitigation request create a mitigation before = doing a > > > > PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] against the active > > > > mitigation, or is a =E2=80=98PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, = activation-type}]=E2=80=99 > > > > allowed to create a new mitigation? > > > > > > [Med] Both are currently allowed in the draft. I don't still a = valid > > > reason to restrict this. > > > > [Jon] As per draft > > A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal > > channel if no attack (mitigation) is active; > > > > [Jon] then needs to be reworded as there is no active mitigation = until the > > PUT is done... > > I believe that both cases should be supported. >=20 > Agreed. >=20 > > > > > > > 2. Should the response to a GET (or Observed GET) include the > > > > acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] if the PUT included it? > > > > > > [Med] The current spec says "no". That's said, what would be the = value > > > in returning it? Then, why not allowing to return the references = to > > > all ACLs that are enabled during the mitigation time? > > > > > [Jon] When observing the mitigation request, if the activation-type = is > > changed externally, the client will then know about the change. = Assuming > > the response got back to the client, this is effectively an ACK to = the fact that > > the ACL change got through. >=20 > Yup, the GET response should include the acl-list. We will also have = to > discuss if the observed GET should convey the > counters for the activated filtering rules using DOTS signal channel. [Jon1] Interesting one - we already have bytes-dropped etc. as an = overall return. Whilst I like the concept of reporting the ACL = acl-counters, with a reasonable number of ACLS, there is a good chance = of having to split the response over multiple packets - which is = supported (RFC7959 and tested during an Interop), but gets very = unreliable when the inbound pipe is running full. If the pipe is not = running full, then this information can be obtained over the data = channel. ~Jon1 >=20 > > > > Interesting concept about knowing about all the relevant ACLs as = returned > > over the signal channel. More work for the server to do in = determining > > which ACLs are valid for, say, a specific IP address that is being = mitigated. > > Not entirely convinced of the benefit of this as this generally is = available > > over the data channel. > > > > > > 3. Does the response to the PUT (the echoed back response = payload > > > > of the PUT representation > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7252#section-5.9.1.1 ) include = the acl-list (if > > defined) or not? > > > > > > [Med] It doesn't as we don't change the behavior of the base spec. > > > > > [Jon] By base spec I assume you mean the signal draft. However the = answer > > has to be "yes - it is included" if following RFC7252 5.9.1.1 and = "The payload > > returned with the response, if any, is a representation of the = action result". > > > > Again, it is letting the client know that the PUT actually did get = through > > (assuming the response gets through) prior to doing any GETs. >=20 > Yup, the PUT response should include the acl-list. >=20 > > ~jon > > > > > > 4. Is the activation change to the ACL a permanent change to = the > > > > ACL (so a GET on the data channel returns the new type)? > > > > > > [Med] Yes. The draft will be updated to make this clearer. > > > > > > > 5. Does the activation change to the ACL count as an ACL = refresh > > > > (pending- lifetime update)? > > > > > > [Med] Yes. Some text will be added to clarify the refresh point. > > > That's said, as discussed in the data-channel, the dots client may > > > need to send a GET after an attack for sync purposes. >=20 > If the pending-lifetime expires when the mitigation is active, the = DOTS server > must not delete the aliases and filtering entries. > We may want to update DOTS data channel to clarify the above point. >=20 > Cheers, > -Tiru >=20 > > > > > > > 6. Is CBOR activation =E2=80=93type comprehension-required or > > > > comprehension- optional? > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This is a comprehension-required attribute (already = discussed in > > > the draft). > > > > > > > Regarding with the 1st point, we got feedbacks from Med and Tiru > > > > that both should be allowed. > > > > If =E2=80=98PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, = activation-type}]=E2=80=99 allowed to create > > > > a new mitigation, it should be treated as this is a request in = "attack- > time". > > > > > > [Med] I confirm. > > > > > > > > > > > (#2: Data Channel Implicit protocol number was addressed clearly = by > > > > Med's > > > > comment.) > > > > > > > > #3: (D)TLS session lifetime > > > > From the view point of DOTS server, when to expire the old = (D)TLS > > > > session > > > is > > > > implementation specific though, I'd like to hear from experts = about > > > > preferable setting (timer or something else...?) > > > > > > > > > > [Med] For me, this is implementation-specific. > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > [Med] Many thanks for sharing the feedback from the hackathon. = Much > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Kaname > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Dots mailing list > > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Dots mailing list > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Thu Mar 28 11:07:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3AF81202FA for ; 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V-_lGR2lPEqL for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC7CE12032E for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VZfk1g56z7v45; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:28:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.98]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VZfk0m7lzBrLS; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:28:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM7F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d9:d3cd:85bd:d331%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 20:28:45 +0100 From: To: Jon Shallow , kaname nishizuka , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon Thread-Index: AdTliGx+CfVXhciSq0+ZqKxGOtsoYgAE0Ung Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:28:45 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 19:28:50 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNz YWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEpvbiBTaGFsbG93IFttYWlsdG86c3VwanBzLWll dGZAanBzaGFsbG93LmNvbV0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBqZXVkaSAyOCBtYXJzIDIwMTkgMTg6MDUN Cj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgVEdJL09MTjsga2FuYW1lIG5pc2hpenVrYTsgZG90 c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBSRTogW0RvdHNdIGNsYXJpZmljYXRpb24gcXVlc3Rpb25z IGZyb20gdGhlIGhhY2thdGhvbg0KPiANCj4gSGkgQWxsLA0KPiANCj4gU2VlIGlubGluZQ0KPiAN Cj4gUmVnYXJkcw0KPiANCj4gSm9uDQo+IA0KPiA+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0t DQo+ID4gRnJvbTogRG90cyBbbWFpbHRvOiBkb3RzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFs ZiBPZiBpZXRmLQ0KPiA+IHN1cGpwcy1tb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tDQo+ID4g U2VudDogMjggTWFyY2ggMjAxOSAxMzozOQ0KPiA+IFRvOiBrYW5hbWUgbmlzaGl6dWthOyBkb3Rz QGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtEb3RzXSBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uIHF1ZXN0aW9u cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBoYWNrYXRob24NCj4gPg0KPiA+IFJlLSwNCj4gPg0KPiA+IFBsZWFzZSBzZWUg aW5saW5lLg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gQ2hlZXJzLA0KPiA+IE1lZA0KPiA+DQo+ID4gPiAtLS0tLU1lc3Nh Z2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gPiA+IERlIDogRG90cyBbbWFpbHRvOmRvdHMtYm91bmNlc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZ10gRGUgbGEgcGFydCBkZSBrYW5hbWUgbmlzaGl6dWthDQo+ID4gPiBFbnZvecOpIDog amV1ZGkgMjggbWFycyAyMDE5IDExOjM4DQo+ID4gPiDDgCA6IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiA+ IE9iamV0IDogW0RvdHNdIGNsYXJpZmljYXRpb24gcXVlc3Rpb25zIGZyb20gdGhlIGhhY2thdGhv bg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+IEhpLA0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+IEknZCBsaWtlIHRvIGNvbnRpbnVlIGRp c2N1c3Npb24gb2YgdGhlc2UgdG9waWNzIGluIHRoZSBNTC4NCj4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPiAjMTogUXVl c3Rpb25zIGFib3V0IHNpZ25hbC1jb250cm9sLWZpbHRlcmluZw0KPiA+ID4gICAxLiBTaG91bGQg YSBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIHJlcXVlc3QgY3JlYXRlIGEgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiBiZWZvcmUgZG9pbmcgYSBQ VVQgKw0KPiA+ID4gYWNsLWxpc3QgW3thY2wtbmFtZSwgYWN0aXZhdGlvbi10eXBlfV0gYWdhaW5z dCB0aGUgYWN0aXZlIG1pdGlnYXRpb24sIG9yDQo+IGlzIGENCj4gPiA+IOKAmFBVVCArIGFjbC1s aXN0IFt7YWNsLW5hbWUsIGFjdGl2YXRpb24tdHlwZX1d4oCZIGFsbG93ZWQgdG8gY3JlYXRlIGEg bmV3DQo+ID4gPiBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uPw0KPiA+DQo+ID4gW01lZF0gQm90aCBhcmUgY3VycmVudGx5 IGFsbG93ZWQgaW4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0LiBJIGRvbid0IHN0aWxsIGEgdmFsaWQgcmVhc29uDQo+IHRv DQo+ID4gcmVzdHJpY3QgdGhpcy4NCj4gDQo+IFtKb25dIEFzIHBlciBkcmFmdA0KPiAgICBBIERP VFMgY2xpZW50IE1VU1QgTk9UIHVzZSB0aGUgZmlsdGVyaW5nIGNvbnRyb2wgb3ZlciBET1RTIHNp Z25hbA0KPiAgICBjaGFubmVsIGlmIG5vIGF0dGFjayAobWl0aWdhdGlvbikgaXMgYWN0aXZlOw0K PiANCg0KW01lZF0gV2hhdCBpcyBtZWFudCBhY3R1YWxseSBpczogDQoNCiAgIEEgRE9UUyBjbGll bnQgTVVTVCBOT1QgdXNlIHRoZSBmaWx0ZXJpbmcgY29udHJvbCBvdmVyIERPVFMgc2lnbmFsDQog ICBjaGFubmVsIGluICdpZGxlJyB0aW1lOw0KDQpXaWxsIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUgdGV4dC4NCg0KPiBb Sm9uXSB0aGVuIG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIHJld29yZGVkIGFzIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIGFjdGl2ZSBtaXRp Z2F0aW9uIHVudGlsIHRoZQ0KPiBQVVQgaXMgZG9uZS4uLg0KPiBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhhdCBib3Ro IGNhc2VzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBzdXBwb3J0ZWQuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiA+ICAgMi4gU2hvdWxkIHRoZSBy ZXNwb25zZSB0byBhIEdFVCAob3IgT2JzZXJ2ZWQgR0VUKSBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSBhY2wtbGlzdA0K PiA+ID4gW3thY2wtbmFtZSwgYWN0aXZhdGlvbi10eXBlfV0gaWYgdGhlIFBVVCBpbmNsdWRlZCBp dD8NCj4gPg0KPiA+IFtNZWRdIFRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHNwZWMgc2F5cyAibm8iLiBUaGF0J3Mgc2Fp ZCwgd2hhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSB0aGUgdmFsdWUgaW4NCj4gPiByZXR1cm5pbmcgaXQ/IFRoZW4sIHdo eSBub3QgYWxsb3dpbmcgdG8gcmV0dXJuIHRoZSByZWZlcmVuY2VzIHRvIGFsbCBBQ0xzDQo+IHRo YXQNCj4gPiBhcmUgZW5hYmxlZCBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIG1pdGlnYXRpb24gdGltZT8NCj4gPg0KPiBb Sm9uXSBXaGVuIG9ic2VydmluZyB0aGUgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiByZXF1ZXN0LCBpZiB0aGUgYWN0aXZh dGlvbi10eXBlIGlzDQo+IGNoYW5nZWQgZXh0ZXJuYWxseSwgdGhlIGNsaWVudCB3aWxsIHRoZW4g a25vdyBhYm91dCB0aGUgY2hhbmdlLiBBc3N1bWluZyB0aGUNCj4gcmVzcG9uc2UgZ290IGJhY2sg dG8gdGhlIGNsaWVudCwgdGhpcyBpcyBlZmZlY3RpdmVseSBhbiBBQ0sgdG8gdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhh dA0KPiB0aGUgQUNMIGNoYW5nZSBnb3QgdGhyb3VnaC4NCg0KW01lZF0gVGhlIG9ic2VydmUgY2Fz ZSBtYWtlcyBzZW5zZSwgaW5kZWVkLg0KDQo+IA0KPiBJbnRlcmVzdGluZyBjb25jZXB0IGFib3V0 IGtub3dpbmcgYWJvdXQgYWxsIHRoZSByZWxldmFudCBBQ0xzIGFzIHJldHVybmVkDQo+IG92ZXIg dGhlIHNpZ25hbCBjaGFubmVsLiAgTW9yZSB3b3JrIGZvciB0aGUgc2VydmVyIHRvIGRvIGluIGRl dGVybWluaW5nIHdoaWNoDQo+IEFDTHMgYXJlIHZhbGlkIGZvciwgc2F5LCBhIHNwZWNpZmljIElQ IGFkZHJlc3MgdGhhdCBpcyBiZWluZyBtaXRpZ2F0ZWQuICBOb3QNCj4gZW50aXJlbHkgY29udmlu Y2VkIG9mIHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9mIHRoaXMgYXMgdGhpcyBnZW5lcmFsbHkgaXMgYXZhaWxhYmxl IG92ZXINCj4gdGhlIGRhdGEgY2hhbm5lbC4NCj4gDQoNCltNZWRdIEknbSBub3QgY29udmluY2Vk LCBlaXRoZXIuIA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Mar 28 14:40:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9577A12039A; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:40:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Menachem Dodge via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Menachem Dodge Message-ID: <155380920553.1496.11625356463336118753@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:40:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Opsdir last call partial review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 21:40:06 -0000 Review is partially done. Another review request has been registered for completing it. Reviewer: Menachem Dodge Review result: Ready I have found the document to be well written and very thorough. I have no issues with the document. From nobody Thu Mar 28 22:46:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60BAA12018F; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:46:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oEuZ_21SK4AW; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E77012008F; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VrLz1nnbz5wGl; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:46:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.73]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VrLz14xZz8sYR; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:46:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9108:27dc:3496:8db3%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:46:02 +0100 From: To: Menachem Dodge , "ops-dir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Opsdir last call partial review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 Thread-Index: AQHU5a7Qf4/4Sw80sUOjePE1lp2NHqYiGAcg Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:46:01 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F5E2@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155380920553.1496.11625356463336118753@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155380920553.1496.11625356463336118753@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Opsdir last call partial review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:46:07 -0000 RGVhciBNZW5hY2hlbSwNCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgcmV2aWV3LiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0K TWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IE1lbmFjaGVtIERv ZGdlIHZpYSBEYXRhdHJhY2tlciBbbWFpbHRvOm5vcmVwbHlAaWV0Zi5vcmddDQo+IEVudm95w6nC oDogamV1ZGkgMjggbWFycyAyMDE5IDIyOjQwDQo+IMOAwqA6IG9wcy1kaXJAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g Q2PCoDogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kb3RzLXNpZ25hbC1jaGFubmVsLmFsbEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgaWV0ZkBp ZXRmLm9yZzsNCj4gZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBPcHNkaXIgbGFzdCBjYWxsIHBh cnRpYWwgcmV2aWV3IG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1zaWduYWwtY2hhbm5lbC0zMQ0KPiANCj4g DQo+IFJldmlldyBpcyBwYXJ0aWFsbHkgZG9uZS4gQW5vdGhlciByZXZpZXcgcmVxdWVzdCBoYXMg YmVlbiByZWdpc3RlcmVkIGZvcg0KPiBjb21wbGV0aW5nIGl0Lg0KPiANCj4gUmV2aWV3ZXI6IE1l bmFjaGVtIERvZGdlDQo+IFJldmlldyByZXN1bHQ6IFJlYWR5DQo+IA0KPiBJIGhhdmUgZm91bmQg dGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHRvIGJlIHdlbGwgd3JpdHRlbiBhbmQgdmVyeSB0aG9yb3VnaC4NCj4gDQo+ IEkgaGF2ZSBubyBpc3N1ZXMgd2l0aCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQuDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Mar 28 22:52:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A850120190; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:52:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4xx81YOPL2wA; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 600BB12008F; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VrVP4BfGz4wlk; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:52:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.23]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44VrVP3SCPzDq78; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:52:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:52:29 +0100 From: To: Stephen Farrell , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 Thread-Index: AQHU2xicRsTGH2X350i3IMDpwuRCCqYiMDAw Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:52:28 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F608@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155257761487.2625.10003476313108979036@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3DFC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <72f7b85c-74fb-0f79-8211-50043c2b4b47@cs.tcd.ie> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3E475@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-30 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:52:33 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhlbiwgDQoNCkZXSVcsIGEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gdGhhdCBpbnRlZ3JhdGVzIHlvdXIg Y29tbWVudHMgaXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIG9ubGluZS4gVGhlIGRpZmYgY2FuIGJlIHRyYWNrZWQgYXQ6 DQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2ln bmFsLWNoYW5uZWwtMzEudHh0IA0KDQpQbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1lIGtub3cgaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgZnVy dGhlciBjb21tZW50cy4gDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1N ZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IFN0ZXBoZW4gRmFycmVsbCBbbWFpbHRvOnN0 ZXBoZW4uZmFycmVsbEBjcy50Y2QuaWVdDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogdmVuZHJlZGkgMTUgbWFycyAy MDE5IDExOjIwDQo+IMOAwqA6IEJPVUNBREFJUiBNb2hhbWVkIFRHSS9PTE47IHNlY2RpckBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KPiBDY8KgOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNoYW5uZWwuYWxsQGlldGYub3Jn OyBpZXRmQGlldGYub3JnOw0KPiBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJlOiBTZWNkaXIg bGFzdCBjYWxsIHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNoYW5uZWwtMzANCj4g DQo+IA0KPiBIaXlhLA0KPiANCj4gT24gMTUvMDMvMjAxOSAwNjo0NywgbW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRh aXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbSB3cm90ZToNCj4gPj4gSVNUTSB0aGF0IGFsbCBjbGllbnRzIGNhbiBnZXQg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24NCj4gPj4gYWJvdXQgaG93IGFuIGF0dGFjayBpcyBiZWluZyBzZWVuIGF0IG90 aGVyIGNsaWVudHMsIGlzbid0IHRoYXQNCj4gPj4gcmlnaHQ/DQo+ID4gW01lZF0gTm8uIEEgY2xp ZW50IGNhbiBvbmx5IGdldCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aGF0IGlzIGJvdW5kIHRvIGl0Lg0KPiBXaGVy ZSBkb2VzIHRoZSBzcGVjIHNheSB0aGF0PyBJIGRvbid0IHJlY2FsbCB0aGUgdGVybSAiYm91bmQi DQo+IHVzZWQgdGhhdCB3YXkgYnV0IG1heSBoYXZlIG1pc3NlZCBpdC4NCj4gDQo+IEFuZCBpdCBz dGlsbCBzZWVtcyBhIGJpdCBoYXJkIHRvIGVuZm9yY2UuIElmIHR3byBjbGllbnRzIChvbmUNCj4g b2ssIG9uZSB6b21iaWVkKSBhc2sgdGhlIHNhbWUgc2VydmVyL25ldHdvcmsgaG93IG1hbnkgcGFj a2V0cw0KPiB0YXJnZXR0ZWQgYXQgMTAuMC4wLzI0IHdlcmUgZHJvcHBlZCB3b24ndCB0aGV5IGdl dCB0aGUgc2FtZQ0KPiBhbnN3ZXI/IChBc3N1bWluZyBib3RoIGNsaWVudHMgYXJlIHdpdGhpbiB0 aGF0IC8yNC4pDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IFMuDQo= From nobody Thu Mar 28 22:57:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A8E1201E9; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6iBMa2xwc2Jq; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6213712030C; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Vrbx4Xm9z8tSW; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:57:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.67]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44Vrbx3PVNz5vMq; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:57:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b846:2467:1591:5d9d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 06:57:17 +0100 From: To: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" CC: "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-dots-data-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 Thread-Index: AQHU4wyGe3mbbawDM0mOIueG+9QlmqYiIXpw Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:57:16 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F640@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155273205205.32728.8738595851481147876@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA3EF14@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01403930-4D01-4A40-945F-CE820CCB87E9@trammell.ch> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4BA1D@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6AEB03FE-5AFD-4303-A159-11E8A9856C43@trammell.ch> In-Reply-To: <6AEB03FE-5AFD-4303-A159-11E8A9856C43@trammell.ch> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] [Tsv-art] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-27 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 05:57:35 -0000 SGkgQnJpYW4sIA0KDQpHcmVhdC4gDQoNCkZXSVcsIHRoZSBvbmx5IHJlcXVpcmVkIGNoYW5nZSBm cm9tIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkIGlzIGltcGxlbWVudGVkIGluIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcv aHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtZGF0YS1jaGFubmVsLTI4IA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0K PiAtLS0tLU1lc3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogQnJpYW4gVHJhbW1lbGwgKElF VEYpIFttYWlsdG86aWV0ZkB0cmFtbWVsbC5jaF0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBsdW5kaSAyNSBtYXJz IDIwMTkgMTQ6MTMNCj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgVEdJL09MTg0KPiBDY8KgOiB0 c3YtYXJ0QGlldGYub3JnOyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtZGF0YS1jaGFubmVsLmFsbEBpZXRmLm9y ZzsNCj4gaWV0ZkBpZXRmLm9yZzsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBPYmpldMKgOiBSZTogW1Rzdi1h cnRdIFRzdmFydCBsYXN0IGNhbGwgcmV2aWV3IG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZG90cy1kYXRhLQ0KPiBj aGFubmVsLTI3DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+ID4gT24gMjUgTWFyIDIwMTksIGF0IDE0OjA0LCA8bW9o YW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbT4NCj4gPG1vaGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5j 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Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD713120026 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:01:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARK-bps6XOKz for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594EF12015F for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 02:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:6::f]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id D8F3425F6A1; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:01:35 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1553850096; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Wo4nDp7XcOpLeRsAt/NSXyubFOynfLAvSgf/gppKqkY=; b=WaaTrOGmKhLZnN5GCOg4K5yYUNzE0vFi/HNIYBQ+CRuv4Fbc2Qj+p8/TJHKr0duG4/WjFM mINxSVXci9pXj0L8sKOM4wjefoAD2U+/xe2L5VVg9/flkO43rSI4VWMgZQ1C46wlUkSgxm 86He/32GIRG2eifht2mzj/0a8TR4vR4= Received: from dhcp-8181.meeting.ietf.org (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 542CE763373; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:01:34 +0900 (JST) To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Jon Shallow , "dots@ietf.org" References: <108a01d4e588$72f886b0$58e99410$@jpshallow.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <1519e976-9b67-ca8e-d3d4-eb22727f0ddd@nttv6.jp> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 18:01:33 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA4F27E@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: guri.nttv6.jp; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kaname@nttv6.jp Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 09:01:41 -0000 Hi, please see inline. regards, Kaname On 2019/03/29 4:28, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Re-, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Jon Shallow [mailto:supjps-ietf@jpshallow.com] >> Envoyé : jeudi 28 mars 2019 18:05 >> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; kaname nishizuka; dots@ietf.org >> Objet : RE: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >> >> Hi All, >> >> See inline >> >> Regards >> >> Jon >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dots [mailto: dots-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ietf- >>> supjps-mohamed.boucadair@orange.com >>> Sent: 28 March 2019 13:39 >>> To: kaname nishizuka; dots@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >>> >>> Re-, >>> >>> Please see inline. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Med >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de kaname nishizuka >>>> Envoyé : jeudi 28 mars 2019 11:38 >>>> À : dots@ietf.org >>>> Objet : [Dots] clarification questions from the hackathon >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'd like to continue discussion of these topics in the ML. >>>> >>>> #1: Questions about signal-control-filtering >>>> 1. Should a mitigation request create a mitigation before doing a PUT + >>>> acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}] against the active mitigation, or >> is a >>>> ‘PUT + acl-list [{acl-name, activation-type}]’ allowed to create a new >>>> mitigation? >>> [Med] Both are currently allowed in the draft. I don't still a valid reason >> to >>> restrict this. >> [Jon] As per draft >> A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal >> channel if no attack (mitigation) is active; >> > [Med] What is meant actually is: > > A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal > channel in 'idle' time; > > Will update the text. > [kaname] in order to make what I and Jon raised clearer,    A DOTS client MUST NOT use the filtering control over DOTS signal    channel in 'idle' time.    If a mitigation request which includes both valid mitigation scope and acl-*    for the first time in idle time, it should be treated as it's already in attack time. Or, simply I'm wondering if it is possible to drop the sentence because acl-* is always accompany with a mitigation scope so there is no way to enable it by itself in idle time? >> [Jon] then needs to be reworded as there is no active mitigation until the >> PUT is done... >> I believe that both cases should be supported. >>>> 2. Should the response to a GET (or Observed GET) include the acl-list >>>> [{acl-name, activation-type}] if the PUT included it? >>> [Med] The current spec says "no". That's said, what would be the value in >>> returning it? Then, why not allowing to return the references to all ACLs >> that >>> are enabled during the mitigation time? >>> >> [Jon] When observing the mitigation request, if the activation-type is >> changed externally, the client will then know about the change. Assuming the >> response got back to the client, this is effectively an ACK to the fact that >> the ACL change got through. > [Med] The observe case makes sense, indeed. > >> Interesting concept about knowing about all the relevant ACLs as returned >> over the signal channel. More work for the server to do in determining which >> ACLs are valid for, say, a specific IP address that is being mitigated. Not >> entirely convinced of the benefit of this as this generally is available over >> the data channel. >> > [Med] I'm not convinced, either. > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Fri Mar 29 04:07:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1DA120258 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WU-4KfQLuOXE for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA3C120264 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.5]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee35c9dfc6a07b-86db7; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:07:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee35c9dfc6a07b-86db7 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from chenmeiling@chinamobile.com ( [31.133.147.133] ) by ajax-webmail-syy-appsvr03-11003 (Richmail) with HTTP; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:07:21 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:07:21 +0800 (CST) From: =?utf-8?B?6ZmI576O546y?= To: dots Message-ID: <2afb5c9deef06d0-00008.Richmail.00007050166234752489@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2488217_1221330663.1553857641207" X-Priority: 3 X-RM-TRANSID: 2afb5c9deef06d0-00008 X-RM-OA-ENC-TYPE: 0 X-RM-FontColor: 0 X-CLIENT-INFO: X-TIMING=0&X-MASSSENT=0&X-SENSITIVE=0 X-Mailer: Richmail_Webapp(V2.0.27) Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Attack-bandwidth expansion: more discussion X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:07:29 -0000 ------=_Part_2488217_1221330663.1553857641207 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, Due to time constraints during my presentation, we hadn39t make much more discuss yesterday, I39d like to continue discussion of these topics in the mail if you have any questions about this draft. MeiLing Chen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Research institute of China mobile communications co. LTD Institute of safety technology Email address: chenmeiling@chinamobile.com Phone: 13810149515 Address: no. 32, xuanwumen west street, xicheng district, Beijing (mobile innovation building) ------=_Part_2488217_1221330663.1553857641207 Content-Type: text/html;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi everyone,

Due t= o time constraints during my presentation, we hadn't make much more dis= cuss yesterday, 

I'd like to continue discussion&n= bsp;of these topics in the mail if you have any questio= ns about this draft. 


MeiLing Chen<= /p>

-------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------<= /p>

Research institute = of China mobile communications co. LTD

Institute of safety technology

Email address: chenmeiling@ch= inamobile.com

Address: no. 32, xuanwumen west street, xicheng district, Beijing = (mobile innovation building)

  ------=_Part_2488217_1221330663.1553857641207-- From nobody Fri Mar 29 04:15:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B89120267 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:15:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJ5wZXTdxIEK for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BC6120256 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 04:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app12-12012 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eec5c9dfe4de50-86aff; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:15:26 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eec5c9dfe4de50-86aff X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from chenmeiling@chinamobile.com ( [31.133.147.133] ) by ajax-webmail-syy-appsvr02-11002 (Richmail) with HTTP; Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:15:26 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:15:26 +0800 (CST) From: =?utf-8?B?6ZmI576O546y?= To: dots Message-ID: <2afa5c9df0626fd-00007.Richmail.00004070460264152429@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_123310_1285738401.1553858126036" X-Priority: 3 X-RM-TRANSID: 2afa5c9df0626fd-00007 X-RM-OA-ENC-TYPE: 0 X-RM-FontColor: 0 X-CLIENT-INFO: X-TIMING=0&X-MASSSENT=0&X-SENSITIVE=0 X-Mailer: Richmail_Webapp(V2.0.27) Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Target-Attack-type expansion: more discussion X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 11:15:31 -0000 ------=_Part_123310_1285738401.1553858126036 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, Due to time constraints during my presentation, we hadn39t make much more discuss yesterday, I39d like to continue discussion of these topics in the mail if you have any questions or comments about this draft. Thanks. MeiLing Chen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Research institute of China mobile communications co. LTD Institute of safety technology Email address: chenmeiling@chinamobile.com Phone: 13810149515 Address: no. 32, xuanwumen west street, xicheng district, Beijing (mobile innovation building) ------=_Part_123310_1285738401.1553858126036 Content-Type: text/html;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi everyone,

Due to time = constraints during my presentation, we hadn't make much more discuss ye= sterday, 

I'd like to = continue discussion of these topics in the ma= il if you have any questions or comments about this draft.

Thanks. 

<= br/>


MeiLing Chen<= /p>

-------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------<= /p>

Research institute = of China mobile communications co. LTD

Institute of safety technology

Email address: chenmeiling@ch= inamobile.com

Address: no. 32, xuanwumen west street, xicheng district, Beijing = (mobile innovation building)

  ------=_Part_123310_1285738401.1553858126036-- From nobody Sun Mar 31 01:53:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC1112017C; Sun, 31 Mar 2019 01:53:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Yoshifumi Nishida via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.94.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Yoshifumi Nishida Message-ID: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 01:53:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 08:53:14 -0000 Reviewer: Yoshifumi Nishida Review result: Almost Ready This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF discussion list for information. When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review. Summary: This document is almost ready for publication, but it will be better to clarify the following points. 1: "it is out of scope of this document to specify the behavior to be followed by a DOTS client to send DOTS requests when multiple DOTS servers are provisioned." I'm not sure why it is out of scope. Does it bring a certain complexities to the protocol? Or, does it simply mean it is up to implementations? 2: "The DOTS client periodically repeats the mechanism to discover whether DOTS signal channel messages with DTLS over UDP becomes available from the DOTS server.." -> Does this mean DOTS clients will not repeat this when it already has DTLS over UDP connection? What about if the client has DTLS over UDPv4? Does it try to check DTLS over UDPv6? Also, is this logic MAY or SHOULD or don't want to specify? 3: "DOTS agents SHOULD follow the data transmission guidelines discussed in Section 3.1.3 of [RFC8085] and control transmission behavior by not sending more than one UDP datagram per round-trip time (RTT) to the peer DOTS agent on average." -> How about TCP connections? Do they need a similar principle such as limiting window size? Thanks, -- Yoshi From nobody Sun Mar 31 23:55:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E88C120094; Sun, 31 Mar 2019 23:55:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IuNV7xsIPYCS; Sun, 31 Mar 2019 23:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F00112006B; Sun, 31 Mar 2019 23:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44XjlV3qffzBs57; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 08:55:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.38]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 44XjlV2XSSz5vNT; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 08:55:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::393d:418c:3f1d:991d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 1 Apr 2019 08:55:18 +0200 From: To: Yoshifumi Nishida , "tsv-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 Thread-Index: AQHU558ufntwVngg7kOH5nXz0UBFpKYmxYrw Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 06:55:17 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302EA5053A@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155402239346.12345.7871170827596594079@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel-31 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2019 06:55:25 -0000 SGkgWW9zaGksIA0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHRoZSByZXZpZXcuIA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlu bGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+ IERlwqA6IFlvc2hpZnVtaSBOaXNoaWRhIHZpYSBEYXRhdHJhY2tlciBbbWFpbHRvOm5vcmVwbHlA aWV0Zi5vcmddDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDogZGltYW5jaGUgMzEgbWFycyAyMDE5IDEwOjUzDQo+IMOA wqA6IHRzdi1hcnRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gQ2PCoDogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1kb3RzLXNpZ25hbC1jaGFu bmVsLmFsbEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgaWV0ZkBpZXRmLm9yZzsNCj4gZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBPYmpl dMKgOiBUc3ZhcnQgbGFzdCBjYWxsIHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWRvdHMtc2lnbmFsLWNo YW5uZWwtMzENCj4gDQo+IFJldmlld2VyOiBZb3NoaWZ1bWkgTmlzaGlkYQ0KPiBSZXZpZXcgcmVz dWx0OiBBbG1vc3QgUmVhZHkNCj4gDQo+IFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgaGFzIGJlZW4gcmV2aWV3ZWQg YXMgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgdHJhbnNwb3J0IGFyZWEgcmV2aWV3IHRlYW0ncw0KPiBvbmdvaW5nIGVm Zm9ydCB0byByZXZpZXcga2V5IElFVEYgZG9jdW1lbnRzLiBUaGVzZSBjb21tZW50cyB3ZXJlIHdy 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