From nobody Fri Aug 2 00:06:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0A712008A for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 00:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qp9k8oeppvra for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 00:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A87C8120137 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 00:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 460J8z0vn7z5wKx; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 09:05:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.48]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 460J8z03MQz1xqN; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 09:05:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::81c9:5f:b9c5:1241%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 09:05:54 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , H Y CC: tirumal reddy , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHVMzOPnOaVrHF+zEGZ3qoxuOmz7qbYNT+AgAGVHKCAAAbagIAAAf6QgAAE3gCAAAhfgP///5jQgA23xQA= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 07:05:53 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FB914@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <156233245922.21720.2303446065970922340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312E739F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312E73FA@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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IGeQ6ddLitWGJyKCe2a1GpJEG9B3krdyvSWuH0VEeS9P+XsFTajDxy8aqh0MZejgC/M87quLKEXWR t5hrq1N941/+AL3BxcQOQk85243rqffyKbXaDhYg4yu7fL+L6xGSVEwCLU6IwtT5v8er6jOTD7imG vVnVJlPg==; Received: from [82.138.51.4] (port=59735 helo=buildpc) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1htTL9-0000G0-JL; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 04:55:08 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312EB910@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312EB910@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 11:54:59 +0300 Message-ID: <019301d5490f$f8a57df0$e9f079d0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0194_01D54929.1DF5C330" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: ru Thread-Index: AQLgkaoOo1Vlc6htpCqkNtP2imU+oqTPzCfQ X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 08:55:13 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0194_01D54929.1DF5C330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Med, Hi Valery, You said during the meeting that you are not "happy" with the language used in section 4 (if I'm not mistaken). Are you referring to this text: All DOTS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms below to determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all three, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments: Can you please clarify your concern? yes, I meant this very text, but it was just an example of my concerns. in general, I found using normative language in the document a bit chaotic and I think that sometimes it is used improperly. Note, that the main purpose of using normative keywords is to help interoperability. More concretely. All DOTS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms below to determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all three, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments: Why normative language is ever used here? Obviously, clients must somehow know server's address to establish a connection, but is it essential for interoperability between DOTS implementations how they got it? I don't think so. Even if you persuade me that it is essential, I still think that the language is used here improperly, since SHOULD is almost equal to MUST and you doesn't provide any excuses for not doing MUST. If you use SHOULD, please describe when it's OK not to follow it. But I still think that normative language is not needed here. Another point. I'd rather recommend always provide a means for local/manual configuration, as it us the easiest and most reliable way to configure server's address. All other mechanisms may fail if attack is already in progress when the client is being configured... On hosts with more than one interface or address family (IPv4/v6), the DOTS server discovery procedure has to be performed for each combination of interface and address family. A client MAY choose to perform the discovery procedure only for a desired interface/address combination if the client does not wish to discover a DOTS server for all combinations of interface and address family. The same question - why MAY is used here instead of "may"? The above procedure MUST also be followed by a DOTS gateway. Likewise, this procedure MUST be followed by a DOTS server in the context of DOTS Signal Channel Call Home [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-call-home]. The discovery method MUST be reiterated upon the following events: The same question for MUST. 1. A DNS domain name is retrieved for each combination of interface and address family. A DOTS client has to determine the domain in which it is located relying on dynamic means such as DHCP (Section 5) . Implementations MAY allow the user to specify a default name that is used, if no specific name has been configured. The same question about normative language - why MAY instead of "may"? And apart from using normative language: doesn't the text If the DHCP client receives more than one instance of OPTION_V6_DOTS_RI (or OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS) option, it MUST use only the first instance of that option. contradicts to the previous one To return more than one DOTS agents to the requesting DHCPv6 client, the DHCPv6 server returns multiple instances of OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS. In other words, why to return several instances if only the first is always used? Am I missing something? Regards, Valery. Thank you. Cheers, Med ------=_NextPart_000_0194_01D54929.1DF5C330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Med,

 

Hi Valery, =

 

You = said during the meeting that you are not “happy” with the = language used in section 4 (if I’m not mistaken). Are you = referring to this text:

 

   All DOTS clients MUST support = at least one of the three mechanisms

   below to determine a DOTS = server list.  All DOTS clients SHOULD

   implement all three, or as = many as are practical for any specific

   device, of these ways to = discover DOTS servers, in order to

   facilitate the deployment of = DOTS in large scale environments:

 

Can = you please clarify your concern?

 

yes, I meant this very text, = but it was just an example of my concerns.

in general, I found using = normative language in the document

a bit chaotic and I think that = sometimes it is used improperly. Note, that

the main purpose of using = normative keywords is to help interoperability.

 

 

More = concretely.

 

   All DOTS clients MUST support = at least one of the three mechanisms

   below to determine a DOTS = server list.  All DOTS clients SHOULD

   implement all three, or as = many as are practical for any specific

   device, of these ways to = discover DOTS servers, in order to

   facilitate the deployment of = DOTS in large scale environments:

 

Why normative language is ever = used here? Obviously, clients

must somehow know = server’s address to establish a connection, =

but is it essential for = interoperability between DOTS implementations

how they got it? I don’t = think so. Even if you persuade me that

it is essential, I still think = that the language is used here

improperly, since SHOULD is = almost equal to MUST and

you doesn’t provide any = excuses for not doing MUST.

If you use SHOULD, please = describe when it’s OK not to follow it.

But I still think that = normative language is not needed here.

 

Another point. I’d rather = recommend always provide a means

for local/manual configuration, = as it us the easiest and most reliable way

to configure server’s = address. All other mechanisms may fail if attack

is already in progress when the = client is being configured...

 

 

   On hosts with more than one = interface or address family (IPv4/v6),

   the DOTS server discovery = procedure has to be performed for each

   combination of interface and = address family.  A client MAY choose to

   perform the discovery = procedure only for a desired interface/address

   combination if the client = does not wish to discover a DOTS server for

   all combinations of interface = and address family.

 

The same question – why = MAY is used here instead of “may”?

 

   The above procedure MUST also = be followed by a DOTS gateway.

   Likewise, this procedure MUST = be followed by a DOTS server in the

   context of DOTS Signal = Channel Call Home

   = [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-call-home].

 

=     The discovery method MUST be reiterated = upon the following events:

 

The same question for = MUST.

 

 

   1.  A DNS domain name is = retrieved for each combination of interface

       and = address family.  A DOTS client has to determine the domain = in

       which = it is located relying on dynamic means such as = DHCP

       = (Section 5) . Implementations MAY allow the user to specify = a

       = default name that is used, if no specific name has = been

       = configured.

 

The same question about = normative language – why MAY instead of = “may”?

 

 

And apart from using normative = language: doesn’t the text

 

   If the DHCP client receives = more than one instance of

   OPTION_V6_DOTS_RI (or = OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS) option, it MUST use

   only the first instance of = that option.

 

contradicts to the previous = one

 

   To return more than one DOTS = agents to the requesting DHCPv6 client,

   the DHCPv6 server returns = multiple instances of

   = OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS.

 

In other words, why to return = several instances if only the first is always = used?

Am I missing = something?

 

Regards,

Valery.

 

 

 

 

Thank you. =

 

Cheers,

Med

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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2RvdHMNCj4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+IC0tDQo+ID4gPiAtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+ID4gPiBZdXVoZWkgSEFZQVNISQ0KPiA+ID4g MDgwNjUzMDA4ODQNCj4gPiA+IHl1dWhlaS5oYXlhc2hpQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ0KPiA+ID4gaWVodXV5 XzAyMjBAZG9jb21vLm5lLmpwDQo+ID4gPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tDQo= From nobody Fri Aug 2 04:53:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974F91200A3 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2N8mDqIs8xYk for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 774BE120033 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 460QXf56MczFqN1; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:53:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.48]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 460QXf49Yxz1xpT; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:53:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM32.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::81c9:5f:b9c5:1241%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:53:22 +0200 From: To: Valery Smyslov CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal Thread-Index: AdVHd+/qBP9FDa59QJaUSl01dbIpugBh0NGAAAlBWNA= Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 11:53:21 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDE@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312EB910@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <019301d5490f$f8a57df0$e9f079d0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <019301d5490f$f8a57df0$e9f079d0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDEOPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 11:53:29 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDEOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Valery, Please see in line. Cheers, Med De : Valery Smyslov [mailto:valery@smyslov.net] Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 ao=FBt 2019 10:55 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN Cc : dots@ietf.org Objet : RE: draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal Hi Med, Hi Valery, You said during the meeting that you are not "happy" with the language used= in section 4 (if I'm not mistaken). Are you referring to this text: All DOTS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms below to determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all three, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments: Can you please clarify your concern? yes, I meant this very text, but it was just an example of my concerns. in general, I found using normative language in the document a bit chaotic and I think that sometimes it is used improperly. Note, that the main purpose of using normative keywords is to help interoperability. [Med] That's fair. Let's identify those and fix them. More concretely. All DOTS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms below to determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all three, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments: Why normative language is ever used here? Obviously, clients must somehow know server's address to establish a connection, but is it essential for interoperability between DOTS implementations how they got it? [Med] It is for interoperability. Consider the example of a server provider= which went with, e.g., provisioning S-NAPTR records while the client does = only support DHCP options to discover a server. This client will never disc= over the IP address of its server. I don't think so. Even if you persuade me that it is essential, I still think that the language is used here improperly, since SHOULD is almost equal to MUST and you doesn't provide any excuses for not doing MUST. [Med] We cannot go for a MUST because of the discussion in Section 3. For e= xample, if we take into account how services are provisioned today to CPE, = it does not make sense to mandate DNS-SD to be supported by a CPE. If you use SHOULD, please describe when it's OK not to follow it. [Med] Do you think text is still needed given the clarification above? But I still think that normative language is not needed here. Another point. I'd rather recommend always provide a means for local/manual configuration, as it us the easiest and most reliable way to configure server's address. [Med] That's fine for some deployments but manual configuration is not help= ful for large scale deployment. All other mechanisms may fail if attack is already in progress when the client is being configured... [Med] Manual configuration will also fail if the client does not have the "= explicit" address to provide or if it has a name which will need to be reso= lved first. On hosts with more than one interface or address family (IPv4/v6), the DOTS server discovery procedure has to be performed for each combination of interface and address family. A client MAY choose to perform the discovery procedure only for a desired interface/address combination if the client does not wish to discover a DOTS server for all combinations of interface and address family. The same question - why MAY is used here instead of "may"? [Med] What is the issue with the use of "MAY" here? The above procedure MUST also be followed by a DOTS gateway. Likewise, this procedure MUST be followed by a DOTS server in the context of DOTS Signal Channel Call Home [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-call-home]. The discovery method MUST be reiterated upon the following events: The same question for MUST. [Med] If this is not followed, the DOTS client may maintain a stale DOTS se= rver...which is problematic. 1. A DNS domain name is retrieved for each combination of interface and address family. A DOTS client has to determine the domain in which it is located relying on dynamic means such as DHCP (Section 5) . Implementations MAY allow the user to specify a default name that is used, if no specific name has been configured. The same question about normative language - why MAY instead of "may"? [Med] Agree this one can be changed to "may" as this is about a configurati= on knob. And apart from using normative language: doesn't the text If the DHCP client receives more than one instance of OPTION_V6_DOTS_RI (or OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS) option, it MUST use only the first instance of that option. contradicts to the previous one To return more than one DOTS agents to the requesting DHCPv6 client, the DHCPv6 server returns multiple instances of OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS. In other words, why to return several instances if only the first is always= used? Am I missing something? [Med] Good catch. Will be fixed. Thanks. Regards, Valery. Thank you. Cheers, Med --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDEOPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Valery,

 

Please see in line.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Valery Smyslov [mailto:valery@s= myslov.net]
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 ao=FBt 2019 10:55
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN
Cc : dots@ietf.org
Objet : RE: draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Mont= real

 

Hi Med,

 

Hi Valery,

 

You said during the meeting that you are no= t “happy” with the language used in section 4 (if I’m not= mistaken). Are you referring to this text:

 

   All DO= TS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms

   below = to determine a DOTS server list.  All DOTS clients SHOULD

   implem= ent all three, or as many as are practical for any specific

   device= , of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to

   facili= tate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments:<= /p>

 

Can you please clarify your concern?

 

yes, I meant this very text, but it was just an example of my con= cerns.

in general, I found using normative language in the document

a bit chaotic and I think that sometimes it is used improperly. N= ote, that

the main purpose of using normative keywords is to help interoper= ability.

 

[Med] That’s fair. Let= 217;s identify those and fix them.

 

More concretely.

 

   All DO= TS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms

   below = to determine a DOTS server list.  All DOTS clients SHOULD

   implem= ent all three, or as many as are practical for any specific

   device= , of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to

   facili= tate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments:<= /p>

 

Why normative language is ever used here? Obviously, clients=

must somehow know server’s address to establish a connectio= n,

but is it essential for interoperability between DOTS implementat= ions

how they got it?

 

[Med] It is for interoperabilit= y. Consider the example of a server provider which went with, e.g., provisi= oning S-NAPTR records while the client does only support DHCP options to discover a server. This client will never discover= the IP address of its server.

 

I don’t think so. Even if you persuade me that

it is essential, I still think that the language is used here

improperly, since SHOULD is almost equal to MUST and

you doesn’t provide any excuses for not doing MUST.

 

[Med] We cannot go for a MUST b= ecause of the discussion in Section 3. For example, if we take into account= how services are provisioned today to CPE, it does not make sense to mandate DNS-SD to be supported by a CPE.   

 

If you use SHOULD, please describe when it’s OK not to foll= ow it.

 

[Med] Do you think text is stil= l needed given the clarification above?

 

But I still think that normative language is not needed here.

 

Another point. I’d rather recommend always provide a means<= o:p>

for local/manual configuration, as it us the easiest and most rel= iable way

to configure server’s address.

 

[Med] That’s fine for som= e deployments but manual configuration is not helpful for large scale deplo= yment.

 

All other mechanisms may fail if attack

is already in progress when the client is being configured...

 

[Med] Manual configuration will= also fail if the client does not have the “explicit” address t= o provide or if it has a name which will need to be resolved first.

 

   On hos= ts with more than one interface or address family (IPv4/v6),

   the DO= TS server discovery procedure has to be performed for each

   combin= ation of interface and address family.  A client MAY choose to

   perfor= m the discovery procedure only for a desired interface/address

   combin= ation if the client does not wish to discover a DOTS server for<= /span>

   all co= mbinations of interface and address family.

 

The same question – why MAY is used here instead of “= may”?

[Med] What is the issue with th= e use of “MAY” here?   

 

   The ab= ove procedure MUST also be followed by a DOTS gateway.

   Likewi= se, this procedure MUST be followed by a DOTS server in the

   contex= t of DOTS Signal Channel Call Home

   [I-D.i= etf-dots-signal-call-home].

 

    = The discovery method MUST be reiterated up= on the following events:

 

The same question for MUST.

[Med] If this is not followed, = the DOTS client may maintain a stale DOTS server…which is problematic= .

 

 

   1.&nbs= p; A DNS domain name is retrieved for each combination of interface

   &= nbsp;   and address family.  A DOTS client has to determine = the domain in

   &= nbsp;   which it is located relying on dynamic means such as DHCP=

   &= nbsp;   (Section 5) . Implementations MAY allow the user to speci= fy a

   &= nbsp;   default name that is used, if no specific name has been

   &= nbsp;   configured.

 

The same question about normative language – why MAY instea= d of “may”?

[Med] Agree this one can be cha= nged to “may” as this is about a configuration knob.

 

And apart from using normative language: doesn’t the text

 

   If the= DHCP client receives more than one instance of

   OPTION= _V6_DOTS_RI (or OPTION_V6_DOTS_ADDRESS) option, it MUST use

   only t= he first instance of that option.

 

contradicts to the previous one

 

   To ret= urn more than one DOTS agents to the requesting DHCPv6 client,

   the DH= CPv6 server returns multiple instances of

   OPTION= _V6_DOTS_ADDRESS.

 

In other words, why to return several instances if only the first= is always used?

Am I missing something?

 

[Med] Good catch. Will be fixed= . Thanks.

 

Regards,

Valery.

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Med

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDEOPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Fri Aug 2 04:55:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A83B120096 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:55:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cLnyj0jqLumX for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8772C120033 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 460QbJ4Wttz1yYK; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:55:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.95]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 460QbJ3lZLzDqB8; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:55:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:55:40 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , H Y CC: tirumal reddy , "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHVMzOPnOaVrHF+zEGZ3qoxuOmz7qbYNT+AgAGVHKCAAAbagIAAAf6QgAAE3gCAAAhfgP///5jQgA27AICAAD/vgIAAEHlw Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 11:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBF3@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <156233245922.21720.2303446065970922340.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312E739F@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312E73FA@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FB914@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry-00.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 11:55:46 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpGdWxseSBhZ3JlZS4gVGhpcyBpcyB3aHkgSSB3YXMgcmVmZXJyaW5nIHRvICJhIGxv Y2FsIGtub3dsZWRnZSBvZiBhbiBhdHRhY2siLiANCg0KV2UgbWF5IHJlY29yZCBzdWNoICJ3YXJu aW5ncyIgaW4gdGhlIHRlbGVtZXRyeSBJLUQuIA0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpNZWQNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU1l c3NhZ2UgZCdvcmlnaW5lLS0tLS0NCj4gRGXCoDogS29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeSBb bWFpbHRvOlRpcnVtYWxlc3dhclJlZGR5X0tvbmRhQE1jQWZlZS5jb21dDQo+IEVudm95w6nCoDog dmVuZHJlZGkgMiBhb8O7dCAyMDE5IDEzOjExDQo+IMOAwqA6IEJPVUNBREFJUiBNb2hhbWVkIFRH SS9PTE47IEggWQ0KPiBDY8KgOiB0aXJ1bWFsIHJlZGR5OyBkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IE9iamV0 wqA6IFJFOiBbRG90c10gRndkOiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXJl ZGR5LWRvdHMtDQo+IHRlbGVtZXRyeS0wMC50eHQNCj4gDQo+ID4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNz YWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gPiBGcm9tOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tDQo+ID4gPG1v aGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb20+DQo+ID4gU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMiwg 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IGllaHV1eV8wMjIwQGRvY29tby5uZS5qcA0KPiA+ID4gPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo= From nobody Fri Aug 2 05:31:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455C612003F for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fWmb9NZxRz5n for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E615F120033 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:30:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:In-Reply-To: References:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/++kiNyy4683xH2wMRtGVwsagOr/XxEBEdD1eDLZ2dc=; b=PrGUxqZHxXRJN5Sw07le1mMsBP lQvN/po4oCoeUOLkf7WqoJfV6hKtXi/kjjUiCK1RVgPpU6kvR412MGtWJcA0FDAVUAgHV+R8wJT6f VyAZn7eJtvAjoso42ZDg1vtHElJCtzfLG6MoADiNStj4o16QDugu4DK7Z8pmcs49n2yht4ohpAmfn 6a+Np3hTnO3vgDDk9aE2CIQSuzrpYwuQYxqn61+Uiq6jtIRlb75dnt9qRggJ5CWdf5IGkDvDVDBHG bQYghDMGaN9KjJMzkxidjXpQMAgbavUMLduPYgkcUZbFIqrm36XxGaWrPGb1Kbdq5SgkeUCyw4wI7 yMTVdZuA==; Received: from [82.138.51.4] (port=59377 helo=buildpc) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1htWhw-0005fS-2k; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 08:30:52 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312EB910@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <019301d5490f$f8a57df0$e9f079d0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDE@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDE@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 15:30:44 +0300 Message-ID: <01ad01d5492e$1c2e5760$548b0620$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01AE_01D54947.4181A9E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: ru Thread-Index: AQLgkaoOo1Vlc6htpCqkNtP2imU+ogLuPNxFAYscRLSkrWcIEA== X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 12:30:57 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01AE_01D54947.4181A9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Med, Hi Valery, Please see in line. Cheers, Med More concretely. All DOTS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms below to determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all three, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments: Why normative language is ever used here? Obviously, clients must somehow know server's address to establish a connection, but is it essential for interoperability between DOTS implementations how they got it? [Med] It is for interoperability. Consider the example of a server provider which went with, e.g., provisioning S-NAPTR records while the client does only support DHCP options to discover a server. This client will never discover the IP address of its server. OK, but you don't impose any requirement on how DOTS servers provision addresses, so either clients must support all the methods or you still have the abovementioned situation to happen. And in this case manual configuration can help. Another reason to make it mandatory, no? I don't think so. Even if you persuade me that it is essential, I still think that the language is used here improperly, since SHOULD is almost equal to MUST and you doesn't provide any excuses for not doing MUST. [Med] We cannot go for a MUST because of the discussion in Section 3. For example, if we take into account how services are provisioned today to CPE, it does not make sense to mandate DNS-SD to be supported by a CPE. Well, then can you be more concrete and clarify when it's OK for clients not to support all three methods. Without concrete excuses SHOULD is almost equal to MUST. If you use SHOULD, please describe when it's OK not to follow it. [Med] Do you think text is still needed given the clarification above? Yes. The phrase "as are practical for any specific device" is too vague. Provide at least a couple examples. But I still think that normative language is not needed here. Another point. I'd rather recommend always provide a means for local/manual configuration, as it us the easiest and most reliable way to configure server's address. [Med] That's fine for some deployments but manual configuration is not helpful for large scale deployment. Sure. But from my understanding of DOTS use cases usually one company will have few dots clients (unless it's a multinational corporation) and will be serviced by one (or few) ISP providing DOTS service. Not a big deal for IT department to configure them. All other mechanisms may fail if attack is already in progress when the client is being configured... [Med] Manual configuration will also fail if the client does not have the "explicit" address to provide or if it has a name which will need to be resolved first. Yes. But at least it can be used to directly configure server address, without any network activity. On hosts with more than one interface or address family (IPv4/v6), the DOTS server discovery procedure has to be performed for each combination of interface and address family. A client MAY choose to perform the discovery procedure only for a desired interface/address combination if the client does not wish to discover a DOTS server for all combinations of interface and address family. The same question - why MAY is used here instead of "may"? [Med] What is the issue with the use of "MAY" here? I don't see a need for MAY here. "If the client doesn't wish..." is clearly a local policy decision, so why uppercase MAY? The above procedure MUST also be followed by a DOTS gateway. Likewise, this procedure MUST be followed by a DOTS server in the context of DOTS Signal Channel Call Home [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-call-home]. The discovery method MUST be reiterated upon the following events: The same question for MUST. [Med] If this is not followed, the DOTS client may maintain a stale DOTS server.which is problematic. I think that lowercase must is OK here, since what you're actually saying is that other kinds of DOTS clients (in fact client side of gateway and call home server) need to follow the case logic for discovering their respected servers. Regards, Valery. Thank you. Cheers, Med ------=_NextPart_000_01AE_01D54947.4181A9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Med,

 

Hi = Valery,

 

Please see in line.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

More = concretely.

 

   All DOTS clients MUST support = at least one of the three mechanisms

   below to determine a DOTS = server list.  All DOTS clients SHOULD

   implement all three, or as = many as are practical for any specific

   device, of these ways to = discover DOTS servers, in order to

   facilitate the deployment of = DOTS in large scale environments:

 

Why normative language is ever = used here? Obviously, clients

must somehow know = server’s address to establish a connection, =

but is it essential for = interoperability between DOTS implementations

how they got it?

 

[Med] It is for interoperability. Consider the example = of a server provider which went with, e.g., provisioning S-NAPTR records = while the client does only support DHCP options to discover a server. = This client will never discover the IP address of its server. =

 

     &n= bsp;   OK, but you don’t impose any requirement on how = DOTS servers provision addresses,

     &n= bsp;   so either clients must support all the methods or you = still have

     &n= bsp;   the abovementioned situation to = happen.

 

     &n= bsp;   And in this case manual configuration can help. Another = reason to make it mandatory, no?

 

I don’t = think so. Even if you persuade me that

it is essential, I still think = that the language is used here

improperly, since SHOULD is = almost equal to MUST and

you doesn’t provide any = excuses for not doing MUST.

 

[Med] We cannot go for a MUST because of the = discussion in Section 3. For example, if we take into account how = services are provisioned today to CPE, it does not make sense to mandate = DNS-SD to be supported by a CPE.   

 

     &n= bsp;   Well, then can you be more concrete and clarify when = it’s OK for clients not to support all three = methods.

     &n= bsp;   Without concrete excuses SHOULD is almost equal to = MUST.

 

If you use SHOULD, = please describe when it’s OK not to follow it.

 

[Med] Do you think text is still needed given the = clarification above?

 

     &n= bsp;   Yes. The phrase “as are practical for any specific = device” is too = vague.

     &n= bsp;   Provide at least a couple = examples.

 

But I still think = that normative language is not needed here.

 

Another point. I’d rather = recommend always provide a means

for local/manual configuration, = as it us the easiest and most reliable way

to configure server’s = address.

 

[Med] That’s fine for some deployments but = manual configuration is not helpful for large scale deployment. =

 

     &n= bsp;   Sure. But from my understanding of DOTS use cases = usually one company will

     &n= bsp;   have few dots clients (unless it’s a = multinational corporation) and will

     &n= bsp;   be serviced by one (or few) ISP providing DOTS = service.

     &n= bsp;   Not a big deal for IT department to configure = them.

 

All other mechanisms may fail = if attack

is already in progress when the = client is being configured...

 

[Med] Manual configuration will also fail if the = client does not have the “explicit” address to provide or if = it has a name which will need to be resolved first. =

 

     &n= bsp;   Yes. But at least it can be used to directly configure = server address, without any network activity.

 

   On hosts with more than one = interface or address family (IPv4/v6),

   the DOTS server discovery = procedure has to be performed for each

   combination of interface and = address family.  A client MAY choose to

   perform the discovery = procedure only for a desired interface/address

   combination if the client = does not wish to discover a DOTS server for

   all combinations of interface = and address family.

 

The same question – why = MAY is used here instead of “may”?

[Med] = What is the issue with the use of “MAY” here? =   

 

     I = don’t see a need for MAY here. “If the client doesn’t = wish...”

     is = clearly a local policy decision, so why uppercase = MAY?

     &n= bsp;  

   The above procedure MUST also = be followed by a DOTS gateway.

   Likewise, this procedure MUST = be followed by a DOTS server in the

   context of DOTS Signal = Channel Call Home

   = [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-call-home].

 

    The discovery method MUST be reiterated = upon the following events:

 

The same question for = MUST.

[Med] = If this is not followed, the DOTS client may maintain a stale DOTS = server…which is problematic.

 

     &n= bsp;   I think that lowercase must is OK here, since what = you’re actually saying

     &n= bsp;   is that other kinds of DOTS clients (in fact client = side of gateway

     &n= bsp;   and call home server) need to follow the case logic for = discovering their

     &n= bsp;   respected servers.

 

     &n= bsp;   Regards,

     &n= bsp;   Valery.

 

 

 

Thank you. =

 

Cheers,

Med

------=_NextPart_000_01AE_01D54947.4181A9E0-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 04:54:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A739D120189 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 04:54:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sVRWoBxYOZ7D for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 04:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DB9112019B for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 04:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462GQ83SY4z202W; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:54:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.107]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462GQ82SJBzFpWf; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:54:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM8F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:54:08 +0200 From: To: Valery Smyslov CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal Thread-Index: AdVHd+/qBP9FDa59QJaUSl01dbIpugLuPNxFAYscRLSkrWcIEKTJH0MQ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 11:54:07 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FCF42@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312EB910@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <019301d5490f$f8a57df0$e9f079d0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FBBDE@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <01ad01d5492e$1c2e5760$548b0620$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <01ad01d5492e$1c2e5760$548b0620$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FCF42OPEXCAUBMA2corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 11:54:14 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FCF42OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Valery, Please see inline. Cheers, Med De : Valery Smyslov [mailto:valery@smyslov.net] Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 ao=FBt 2019 14:31 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN Cc : dots@ietf.org Objet : RE: draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Montreal Hi Med, Hi Valery, Please see in line. Cheers, Med More concretely. All DOTS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms below to determine a DOTS server list. All DOTS clients SHOULD implement all three, or as many as are practical for any specific device, of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to facilitate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments: Why normative language is ever used here? Obviously, clients must somehow know server's address to establish a connection, but is it essential for interoperability between DOTS implementations how they got it? [Med] It is for interoperability. Consider the example of a server provider= which went with, e.g., provisioning S-NAPTR records while the client does = only support DHCP options to discover a server. This client will never disc= over the IP address of its server. OK, but you don't impose any requirement on how DOTS servers provi= sion addresses, so either clients must support all the methods or you still have the abovementioned situation to happen. [Med] This is supposed to be covered by "as many as are practical for any s= pecific device". For example, a CPE device is likely to support a dynamic m= eans such as DHCP and service resolution. For generic purpose devices, the = language encourages the support of the three mechanisms. And in this case manual configuration can help. Another reason to = make it mandatory, no? [Med] Because this may not be practical for large scale deployments. I don't think so. Even if you persuade me that it is essential, I still think that the language is used here improperly, since SHOULD is almost equal to MUST and you doesn't provide any excuses for not doing MUST. [Med] We cannot go for a MUST because of the discussion in Section 3. For e= xample, if we take into account how services are provisioned today to CPE, = it does not make sense to mandate DNS-SD to be supported by a CPE. Well, then can you be more concrete and clarify when it's OK for c= lients not to support all three methods. Without concrete excuses SHOULD is almost equal to MUST. If you use SHOULD, please describe when it's OK not to follow it. [Med] Do you think text is still needed given the clarification above? Yes. The phrase "as are practical for any specific device" is too = vague. Provide at least a couple examples. [Med] OK, will add a pointer to Section 3 + examples. But I still think that normative language is not needed here. Another point. I'd rather recommend always provide a means for local/manual configuration, as it us the easiest and most reliable way to configure server's address. [Med] That's fine for some deployments but manual configuration is not help= ful for large scale deployment. Sure. But from my understanding of DOTS use cases usually one comp= any will have few dots clients (unless it's a multinational corporation) an= d will be serviced by one (or few) ISP providing DOTS service. Not a big deal for IT department to configure them. [Med] Of course, but this is not the case for deployments making use of CPE= s (embedding either a DOTS client or a Call Home DOTS server). All other mechanisms may fail if attack is already in progress when the client is being configured... [Med] Manual configuration will also fail if the client does not have the "= explicit" address to provide or if it has a name which will need to be reso= lved first. Yes. But at least it can be used to directly configure server addr= ess, without any network activity. On hosts with more than one interface or address family (IPv4/v6), the DOTS server discovery procedure has to be performed for each combination of interface and address family. A client MAY choose to perform the discovery procedure only for a desired interface/address combination if the client does not wish to discover a DOTS server for all combinations of interface and address family. The same question - why MAY is used here instead of "may"? [Med] What is the issue with the use of "MAY" here? I don't see a need for MAY here. "If the client doesn't wish..." is clearly a local policy decision, so why uppercase MAY? [Med] OK. The above procedure MUST also be followed by a DOTS gateway. Likewise, this procedure MUST be followed by a DOTS server in the context of DOTS Signal Channel Call Home [I-D.ietf-dots-signal-call-home]. The discovery method MUST be reiterated upon the following events: The same question for MUST. [Med] If this is not followed, the DOTS client may maintain a stale DOTS se= rver...which is problematic. I think that lowercase must is OK here, since what you're actually= saying is that other kinds of DOTS clients (in fact client side of gatewa= y and call home server) need to follow the case logic for discoverin= g their respected servers. [Med] OK Regards, Valery. Thank you. Cheers, Med --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FCF42OPEXCAUBMA2corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Valery,

 

Please see inline.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Valery Smyslov [mailto:valery@s= myslov.net]
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 2 ao=FBt 2019 14:31
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN
Cc : dots@ietf.org
Objet : RE: draft-ietf-dots-discovery: Valery's Comment in Mont= real

 

Hi Med,

 

Hi Valery,

 

Please see in line.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

More concretely.

 

   All DO= TS clients MUST support at least one of the three mechanisms

   below = to determine a DOTS server list.  All DOTS clients SHOULD

   implem= ent all three, or as many as are practical for any specific

   device= , of these ways to discover DOTS servers, in order to

   facili= tate the deployment of DOTS in large scale environments:<= /p>

 

Why normative language is ever used here? Obviously, clients=

must somehow know server’s address to establish a connectio= n,

but is it essential for interoperability between DOTS implementat= ions

how they got it?

 

[Med] It is for interoperabilit= y. Consider the example of a server provider which went with, e.g., provisi= oning S-NAPTR records while the client does only support DHCP options to discover a server. This client will never discover= the IP address of its server.

 

         OK, but you don&= #8217;t impose any requirement on how DOTS servers provision addresses,

         so either client= s must support all the methods or you still have

         the abovemention= ed situation to happen.

 

[Med] This is supposed to be co= vered by “as many as are practical for any specific device”. For = example, a CPE device is likely to support a dynamic means such as DHCP and= service resolution. For generic purpose devices, the language encourages the support of the three mechanisms.

 

         And in this case= manual configuration can help. Another reason to make it mandatory, no?

[Med] Because this may not be p= ractical for large scale deployments.

 

I don’t think so. Even if you persuade me that

it is essential, I still think that the language is used here

improperly, since SHOULD is almost equal to MUST and

you doesn’t provide any excuses for not doing MUST.

 

[Med] We cannot go for a MUST b= ecause of the discussion in Section 3. For example, if we take into account= how services are provisioned today to CPE, it does not make sense to mandate DNS-SD to be supported by a CPE.   

 

         Well, then can y= ou be more concrete and clarify when it’s OK for clients not to suppo= rt all three methods.

         Without concrete= excuses SHOULD is almost equal to MUST.

 

If you use SHOULD, please describe when it’s OK not to foll= ow it.

 

[Med] Do you think text is stil= l needed given the clarification above?

 

         Yes. The phrase = “as are practical for any spe= cific device” is too vague.

         Provide at least= a couple examples.

[Med] OK, will add a pointer to= Section 3 + examples.

 

But I still think that normative language is not needed here.

 

Another point. I’d rather recommend always provide a means<= o:p>

for local/manual configuration, as it us the easiest and most rel= iable way

to configure server’s address.

 

[Med] That’s fine for som= e deployments but manual configuration is not helpful for large scale deplo= yment.

 

         Sure. But from m= y understanding of DOTS use cases usually one company will

         have few dots cl= ients (unless it’s a multinational corporation) and will

         be serviced by o= ne (or few) ISP providing DOTS service.

         Not a big deal f= or IT department to configure them.

 

[Med] Of course, but this is no= t the case for deployments making use of CPEs (embedding either a DOTS clie= nt or a Call Home DOTS server).

 

All other mechanisms may fail if attack

is already in progress when the client is being configured...

 

[Med] Manual configuration will= also fail if the client does not have the “explicit” address t= o provide or if it has a name which will need to be resolved first.

 

         Yes. But at leas= t it can be used to directly configure server address, without any network = activity.

 

   On hos= ts with more than one interface or address family (IPv4/v6),

   the DO= TS server discovery procedure has to be performed for each

   combin= ation of interface and address family.  A client MAY choose to

   perfor= m the discovery procedure only for a desired interface/address

   combin= ation if the client does not wish to discover a DOTS server for<= /span>

   all co= mbinations of interface and address family.

 

The same question – why MAY is used here instead of “= may”?

[Med] What is the issue with th= e use of “MAY” here?   

 

     I don’= t see a need for MAY here. “If the client doesn’t wish...”= ;

     is clearly a= local policy decision, so why uppercase MAY?

 

[Med] OK.

        

   The ab= ove procedure MUST also be followed by a DOTS gateway.

   Likewi= se, this procedure MUST be followed by a DOTS server in the

   contex= t of DOTS Signal Channel Call Home

   [I-D.i= etf-dots-signal-call-home].

 

    = The discovery method MUST be reiterated up= on the following events:

 

The same question for MUST.

[Med] If this is not followed, = the DOTS client may maintain a stale DOTS server…which is problematic= .

 

         I think that low= ercase must is OK here, since what you’re actually saying

         is that other ki= nds of DOTS clients (in fact client side of gateway

         and call home se= rver) need to follow the case logic for discovering their=

         respected server= s.

[Med] OK

 

         Regards,

         Valery.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Med

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FCF42OPEXCAUBMA2corp_-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 06:13:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCEA120072; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:13:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: dots@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: dots@ietf.org Message-ID: <156501078827.24460.6236648832933577044@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 06:13:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:13:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the IETF. Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Agent Discovery Authors : Mohamed Boucadair Tirumaleswar Reddy Filename : draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2019-08-05 Abstract: It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be under attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are undertaken. This document specifies mechanisms to configure DOTS clients with DOTS servers. The discovery procedure also covers the DOTS Signal Channel Call Home. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Aug 5 06:18:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A341201D0 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:18:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 90gyhwmni0gp for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 120921201D7 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462JH91kWGzypV for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:18:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.51]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462JH912GQzFpWj for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:18:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:18:12 +0200 From: To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHVS4+ZwV21N7lKcUKyGdE8k0VB56bsiRJQ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:18:12 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FCFD9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <156501078827.24460.6236648832933577044@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <156501078827.24460.6236648832933577044@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:18:16 -0000 Re-, This version tries to address the comments from Valery (and some nits). Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 5 ao=FBt 2019 15:13 > =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc=A0: dots@ietf.org > Objet=A0: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling WG of the > IETF. >=20 > Title : Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > Signaling (DOTS) Agent Discovery > Authors : Mohamed Boucadair > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Filename : draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2019-08-05 >=20 > Abstract: > It may not be possible for a network to determine the cause for an > attack, but instead just realize that some resources seem to be under > attack. To fill that gap, Distributed-Denial-of-Service Open Threat > Signaling (DOTS) allows a network to inform a DOTS server that it is > under a potential attack so that appropriate mitigation actions are > undertaken. >=20 > This document specifies mechanisms to configure DOTS clients with > DOTS servers. The discovery procedure also covers the DOTS Signal > Channel Call Home. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dots-server-discovery-05 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Mon Aug 5 20:52:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A250120122 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:52:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YSauG_I86inK for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE80012011B for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id BC92540D1631753F1576; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 04:52:30 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 04:52:29 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.208]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:51:12 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: H Y CC: dots Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload Thread-Index: AdVMCgmZ4COkfVoLSrijKGXrfvkNkg== Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 03:51:11 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE3F02A@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE3F02Ankgeml513mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Comments for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Hi Yuhei,

 =

In the IETF 105 m= eeting, there wasn=A1=AFt enough time to discuss your draft, so I put my co= mments here for more discussion.

My comments are a= ll about the =A1=AESignaling Method and Conveyed Information=A1=AF for diff= erent Attacks. The following figure is copied from your draft.

  +---------= ----+-----------------------------------+------------------+

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;     Reflection Attack     = ;     |  Non-Reflection  |<= /p>

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;       |     Attack&n= bsp;      |

  +---------= ----+-----------------------------------+------------------+

 | Out-of-band |= Attack Time          &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      |

  |  &= nbsp;  case    | Method : Data Channel   = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;    |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Info : src_ip= , src_port, dst_ip, dst_port, protocol  |

  +---------= ----+-----------------------------------+------------------+

  |   = In-band   | Attack Time       =             &nb= sp;   | Attack Time      |

  |  &= nbsp; case     | (Number of reflector is small) &n= bsp;  | Method : Signal  |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Method : Sign= al Channel with src  |        =   Channel |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Info : src_ip= , src_port,          | Info : = dst_ip,   |

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;     dst_ip, protocol     =       |        = dst_port, |

  |  &= nbsp;          +----------= -------------------------+        pr= otocol  |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Attack Time&n= bsp;            &nbs= p;         |   =             &nb= sp;  |

  |  &= nbsp;          | (Number of re= flector is enormous) |         = ;         |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Method : Sign= al Channel with src  |        =           |<= /p>

  |  &= nbsp;          | Info : src_po= rt, dst_ip, protocol |         = ;         |

  |  &= nbsp;          +----------= -------------------------+------------------+

  |  &= nbsp;          | Peace Time&nb= sp;            =            | Peace Time&n= bsp;      |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Method : Data= Channel           &= nbsp; | Method : Data    |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Info : src_po= rt,             = ;     |       &= nbsp;  Channel |

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;     dst_ip, protocol     =       | Info : dst_ip,   |

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;       |     &nb= sp;  dst_port, |

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;       |     &nb= sp;  protocol  |

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;       |     &nb= sp;            |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Attack Time&n= bsp;            = ;          | Attack Time =      |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Method : Sign= al Channel           | Me= thod : Signal  |

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;       Control Filtering   = ;     |        =   Channel |

  |  &= nbsp;          | Info : ACL na= me            &= nbsp;      | Control Filtering|<= /p>

  |  &= nbsp;          |  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;       | Info : ACL name  |

  |-------------= +------------------------------------------------------+=

 =

1. For =A1=AEIn-b= and Case=A1=AF and =A1=AEAttack Time=A1=AF, =A1=AEdst_port=A1=AF is conveye= d for =A1=AENon-Reflection Attack=A1=AF and isn=A1=AFt for =A1=AEReflection= Attack=A1=AF, so I infer that maybe a lot of or even all ports will be att= acked on =A1=AEReflection Attack=A1=AF so you can=A1=AFt or don=A1=AFt need to convey =A1=AEdst_port=A1=AF. Also = I noticed that non source attribute is conveyed on =A1=AENon-Reflection Att= ack=A1=AF. So, different kinds of information are conveyed in different sit= uations, but I didn=A1=AFt find any references for your conclusions, can you give some references or descriptions to explain how you get the co= nclusions?

2. For =A1=AERefl= ection Attack=A1=AF, =A1=AEIn-band Case=A1=AF and =A1=AEAttack Time=A1=AF, = you give two methods based on the number of reflector, what I=A1=AFm confus= ed is how to distinguish whether the number is small or enormous. I think t= he comparison is a very subjective thing, different people may have different understand= ing, so I don=A1=AFt know whether it=A1=AFs suitable or common to just say = the number is small or enormous.

3. For =A1=AEIn-b= and Case=A1=AF and =A1=AEPeace Time=A1=AF, you want to send the ACLs by Dat= a Channel before the attack, and activate them by Signal Channel during att= ack. But how do you know the targets and attack sources before the attack, especially the DMS may be in charge of the whole network?

 =

Regards & Thanks!

=C5=CB=CE=B0 Wei Pan

=BB=AA=CE=AA=BC=BC=CA=F5=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE Huawei Technologies= Co., Ltd.

 

--_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE3F02Ankgeml513mbschi_-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 23:26:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717D11200F7 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:26:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uljw1S2Fv0lR for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA2A9120018 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:26:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=nS9LnmBzbJ2yL4TiGE4skHkHYc6r3N1Fdz8ocq4LNPY=; b=EH7+IoHhzsmzCfnFCJyuFoNL0Y 3unQG4M0qVu64EIpMzMx0fXg5zOoUydLNG5Wa31n0ATj5kQdMkU5oP/Uh5xkWly5WdZfj8lpofJhG n8zz7ul3IYh163Fbcx8aed+StM6Ma8PmagAwcAtKyh2XDZsAZMACLpoV+ATxODIBjwtv0GP5vgJiX jz4wNMjG5yqxaG3QTp7XbJQHQowCaLPpYU4WPoRD5jzYdjHRP8UpMojKZvlgYSq4UNI4I6jF/U6vB P12q9/HBRtnIrc9fMC+hQBwVuJo956NrpPwIIF/CnjiKqSlAWp1ontV3cdQaPnZ6W0CHh36M3xUBS 5eFyQpfg==; Received: from [82.138.51.4] (port=61170 helo=buildpc) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1husvS-0003pu-TQ; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 02:26:27 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: "Xialiang \(Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept\)" Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:26:06 +0300 Message-ID: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: ru Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1Exg== X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:26:33 -0000 Hi, this message starts a short WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to confirm the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case to the draft. The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 August. Regards, Frank & Valery. From nobody Mon Aug 5 23:48:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0772E12013E for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:48:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SPZ4ab6tTTaQ for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B912120137 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462lZj68vxz8t9k; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:48:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.104]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462lZj5FFBzBrLG; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:48:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::193b:bc32:1ad3:362d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:48:13 +0200 From: To: Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgAA9YKQ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:48:13 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDABD@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:48:17 -0000 Hi Chairs, all,=20 I support advancing this draft.=20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Valery Smyslov > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 6 ao=FBt 2019 08:26 > =C0=A0: dots@ietf.org > Cc=A0: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > Objet=A0: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > this message starts a short WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to > confirm > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case to the > draft. > The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 August. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Mon Aug 5 23:53:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E68612013B for ; 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charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:53:24 -0000 The security implications of the new use case need to be discussed in the d= raft, please see https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/tb-1ojJ6TmSmRUc= i6JoUeD-gB1Y=20 Cheers, -Tiru > -----Original Message----- > From: Dots On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 11:56 AM > To: dots@ietf.org > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > Subject: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > this message starts a short WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to conf= irm > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case to the > draft. > The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 August. >=20 > Regards, > Frank & Valery. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Aug 6 00:20:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0DB12013B for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 00:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARuWDsImnnVa for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 00:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D234412034B for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 00:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462mHy04H3z4xN4; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:20:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.51]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462mHx6SJyzDq7b; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:20:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:20:29 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oA= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 07:20:28 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 07:20:35 -0000 Hi Tiru,=20 The NEW text indicates the following:=20 =3D=3D In addition to the above DDoS Orchestration, the selected DDoS mitigation systems can return back a mitigation request to the orchestrator as an offloading.=20 ^^^^^^^^^^^ .... the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information to the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ =20 orchestrator. =3D=3D Which means that the DMS is blocking that traffic based on "some" informati= on. That same information is passed to an orchestrator so that it can filte= r the traffic. What changes is ** how/where ** filters are installed.=20 Like the interface with a mitigator, the interface between the controller a= nd underlying routers is out of scope.=20 >From a DOTS perspective, the information supplied by the DMS to an Orchestr= ator is considered as "additional hints" which is adhering to RFC8612: =3D=3D GEN-004 Mitigation Hinting: DOTS clients may have access to attack details that can be used to inform mitigation techniques. Example attack details might include locally collected fingerprints for an on-going attack, or anticipated or active attack focal points based on other threat intelligence. DOTS clients MAY send mitigation hints derived from attack details to DOTS servers, with the full understanding that the DOTS server MAY ignore mitigation hints. =3D=3D =20 I don't think there are new security considerations induced by the NEW text= . =20 Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Konda, Tirumales= war > Reddy > Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 6 ao=FBt 2019 08:52 > =C0=A0: Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > Cc=A0: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > Objet=A0: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 >=20 > The security implications of the new use case need to be discussed in the > draft, please see https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/tb- > 1ojJ6TmSmRUci6JoUeD-gB1Y >=20 > Cheers, > -Tiru >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dots On Behalf Of Valery Smyslov > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 11:56 AM > > To: dots@ietf.org > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > Subject: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > this message starts a short WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to > confirm > > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case to the > > draft. > > The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 August. > > > > Regards, > > Frank & Valery. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Dots mailing list > > Dots@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots From nobody Tue Aug 6 01:14:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B75CD12013D for ; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009a286e058f6e7d19" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:20:03 -0000 --0000000000009a286e058f6e7d19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 11:15 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > The adverse impact is legitimate users whose IP addresses were spoofed > cannot access the services of the target server. > This must never never happen in production systems. You do not block an IP address if you haven't verified that it's not spoofed. DOTS has nothing to do with this. -- T=C3=B6ma > --0000000000009a286e058f6e7d19 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 11:15 AM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda= @mcafee.com> wrote:
The adve= rse impact is legitimate users whose IP addresses were spoofed
cannot access the services of the target server.

=
T= his must never never=C2=A0happen in production systems.=C2=A0 You do not bl= ock an IP address if you haven't verified that it's not spoofed.=C2= =A0 DOTS has nothing=C2=A0to do with this.

<= /div>
--
T=C3=B6ma
--0000000000009a286e058f6e7d19-- From nobody Tue Aug 6 01:30:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EE5120140 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 01:30:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v_5Ji687pNTc for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 01:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DA56120131 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 01:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462nrj6Hvbz5wbk; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 10:30:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.45]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462nrj5FL9z5vMw; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 10:30:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM42.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 10:30:29 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApByg Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:30:29 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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In-Reply-To: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE3F02A@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> From: H Y Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 18:08:05 +0900 Message-ID: To: "Panwei (William)" Cc: dots Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Comments for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 09:09:21 -0000 Hi Wei Pan, Thank you for reading my draft carefully. Please see inline. 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5(=E7=81=AB) 12:52 Panwei (William) : > > Hi Yuhei, > > > > In the IETF 105 meeting, there wasn=E2=80=99t enough time to discuss your= draft, so I put my comments here for more discussion. > > My comments are all about the =E2=80=98Signaling Method and Conveyed Info= rmation=E2=80=99 for different Attacks. The following figure is copied from= your draft. > > +-------------+-----------------------------------+------------------+ > > | | Reflection Attack | Non-Reflection | > > | | | Attack | > > +-------------+-----------------------------------+------------------+ > > | Out-of-band | Attack Time | > > | case | Method : Data Channel | > > | | Info : src_ip, src_port, dst_ip, dst_port, protocol | > > +-------------+-----------------------------------+------------------+ > > | In-band | Attack Time | Attack Time | > > | case | (Number of reflector is small) | Method : Signal | > > | | Method : Signal Channel with src | Channel | > > | | Info : src_ip, src_port, | Info : dst_ip, | > > | | dst_ip, protocol | dst_port, | > > | +-----------------------------------+ protocol | > > | | Attack Time | | > > | | (Number of reflector is enormous) | | > > | | Method : Signal Channel with src | | > > | | Info : src_port, dst_ip, protocol | | > > | +-----------------------------------+------------------+ > > | | Peace Time | Peace Time | > > | | Method : Data Channel | Method : Data | > > | | Info : src_port, | Channel | > > | | dst_ip, protocol | Info : dst_ip, | > > | | | dst_port, | > > | | | protocol | > > | | | | > > | | Attack Time | Attack Time | > > | | Method : Signal Channel | Method : Signal | > > | | Control Filtering | Channel | > > | | Info : ACL name | Control Filtering| > > | | | Info : ACL name | > > |-------------+------------------------------------------------------+ > > > > 1. For =E2=80=98In-band Case=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98Attack Time=E2=80=99, = =E2=80=98dst_port=E2=80=99 is conveyed for =E2=80=98Non-Reflection Attack= =E2=80=99 and isn=E2=80=99t for =E2=80=98Reflection Attack=E2=80=99, so I i= nfer that maybe a lot of or even all ports will be attacked on =E2=80=98Ref= lection Attack=E2=80=99 so you can=E2=80=99t or don=E2=80=99t need to conve= y =E2=80=98dst_port=E2=80=99. Also I noticed that non source attribute is c= onveyed on =E2=80=98Non-Reflection Attack=E2=80=99. So, different kinds of = information are conveyed in different situations, but I didn=E2=80=99t find= any references for your conclusions, can you give some references or descr= iptions to explain how you get the conclusions? [Yuhei] So far, I conclude it based on my personal analysis of attack (or network stress?) tools. > When it is under non-reflection attack, src_ip and src_port information c= annot be conveyed because attackers usually randomize the parameters so num= ber of its become enormous. For example, a non-reflection attack (or network stress?) tool such as g3m seems that it generates attack packets with randomized src_ip and src_port as default. https://github.com/WorkaroundTech/g3m/blob/master/g3m.c > On the other hand, when it is under reflection attack, dst_port informati= on cannot be conveyed because attackers usually randomize src_port so the n= umber of dst_port of attack packets reached to victim become enormous. For example, a reflection attack tool https://github.com/OffensivePython/Saddam/blob/master/Saddam.py seems that it generates attack packets with randomized src_port. > 2. For =E2=80=98Reflection Attack=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98In-band Case=E2=80= =99 and =E2=80=98Attack Time=E2=80=99, you give two methods based on the nu= mber of reflector, what I=E2=80=99m confused is how to distinguish whether = the number is small or enormous. I think the comparison is a very subjectiv= e thing, different people may have different understanding, so I don=E2=80= =99t know whether it=E2=80=99s suitable or common to just say the number is= small or enormous. [Yuhei] Thank you for sharing your concern. A threshold is needed to distinguish the number is small or enormous, and the threshold can be configured based on the capacity of ACLs of forwarding node. > 3. For =E2=80=98In-band Case=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98Peace Time=E2=80=99, y= ou want to send the ACLs by Data Channel before the attack, and activate th= em by Signal Channel during attack. But how do you know the targets and att= ack sources before the attack, especially the DMS may be in charge of the w= hole network? [Yuhei] So far, it is assumed that the DMS is deployed at the enterprise network and it knows the global address of the network. Against reflection attack, the DMS sends the global address as dst_ip of ACL and well-known abused port (such as UDP 53, 123, etc.) as src_port of ACL in peacetime. Against non-reflection attack, the DMS sends the global address as dst_ip of ACL and well-known abused port (such as TCP 80, 443, etc.) as dst_port of ACL in peacetime. Thanks, Yuhei > Regards & Thanks! > > =E6=BD=98=E4=BC=9F Wei Pan > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8 = Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > -- ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ---------------------------------- From nobody Tue Aug 6 02:14:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20CFA120148 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 02:14:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBjeUffRI9DE for ; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RtXllVMvG6Z0 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 02:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C686312001A for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 02:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.7]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462pxp0Q4Jz8srv; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:19:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.95]) by opfedar05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462pxn6Kybz2xC0; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:19:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:19:57 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8A== Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:19:57 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6Q Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:29:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.3.0.17 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [49.37.202.60] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0980e983-527f-4946-2d69-08d71a508762 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uKRT+AjliQGKE0c3B6U+wLld70Rl1rlYglToWxHUxSotvSb1+SzBaK9LmJnZiNnyEssr+nSBh4VnRda8gVsASvofE36Mgx9bqLfyXySEmp7M273V9RGlbesJGnL6GWp9aV5tEHs4CWDN3Q+baj9HAI7ptxEWQSEe005DoiHf8D1kay6mgsDl/e0wxZdGww7u3ql/kr9hSJlZpWxOhASujfHp6uDzSkP7ekCRFnm2JxDHprluFrlm5AKx7J4JNqxCQszmXyC6hyZ5Ab4vcF+Ep2k2pstx9n0c0WsAHasHaKhXC0O+awLs+WvzrLmaqqEuzqfFfTOiEZyV3ZpGzDpb6TJAAXkQTvqIDr2orcMQjmrmtzfeLr2V3RzHtkjchahSg02PGem6broNSHZU9aj5I12ubmxAQeJJmcHIFzC2UOs= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0980e983-527f-4946-2d69-08d71a508762 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Aug 2019 09:29:06.5789 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB1577 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6605> : inlines <7131> : streams <1829513> : uri <2879068> X-MC-Unique: bG0HLDalNsCjePwZgFK0WA-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 09:29:27 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBv cmFuZ2UuY29tDQo+IDxtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tPg0KPiBTZW50OiBUdWVz ZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgNiwgMjAxOSAyOjUwIFBNDQo+IFRvOiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJl ZGR5DQo+IDxUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25kYUBNY0FmZWUuY29tPjsgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNs b3YNCj4gPHZhbGVyeUBzbXlzbG92Lm5ldD47IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gQ2M6IFhpYWxpYW5n IChGcmFuaywgTmV0d29yayBTdGFuZGFyZCAmIFBhdGVudCBEZXB0KQ0KPiA8ZnJhbmsueGlhbGlh bmdAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4NCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBXR0xDIGZvciBkcmFmdC1kb3Rz LXVzZS1jYXNlcy0xOQ0KPiANCj4gVGhpcyBlbWFpbCBvcmlnaW5hdGVkIGZyb20gb3V0c2lkZSBv ZiB0aGUgb3JnYW5pemF0aW9uLiBEbyBub3QgY2xpY2sgbGlua3Mgb3INCj4gb3BlbiBhdHRhY2ht ZW50cyB1bmxlc3MgeW91IHJlY29nbml6ZSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBrbm93IHRoZSBjb250ZW50 IGlzDQo+IHNhZmUuDQo+IA0KPiBSZS0sDQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCj4gDQo+ 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zMf_NbnN1K5f for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 02:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42709120131 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 02:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462qVQ4F0Sz5wlK; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:44:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.64]) by opfedar01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462qVQ39JVzBrLg; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:44:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:44:46 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubA= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 09:44:45 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 09:44:51 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNz YWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkgW21h aWx0bzpUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25kYUBNY0FmZWUuY29tXQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IG1h cmRpIDYgYW/Du3QgMjAxOSAxMToyOQ0KPiDDgMKgOiBCT1VDQURBSVIgTW9oYW1lZCBUR0kvT0xO OyBWYWxlcnkgU215c2xvdjsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDY8KgOiBYaWFsaWFuZyAoRnJhbmss IE5ldHdvcmsgU3RhbmRhcmQgJiBQYXRlbnQgRGVwdCkNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBX R0xDIGZvciBkcmFmdC1kb3RzLXVzZS1jYXNlcy0xOQ0KPiANCj4gPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1l c3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiA+IEZyb206IG1vaGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb20NCj4gPiA8 bW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbT4NCj4gPiBTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBBdWd1c3Qg NiwgMjAxOSAyOjUwIFBNDQo+ID4gVG86IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkNCj4gPiA8 VGlydW1hbGVzd2FyUmVkZHlfS29uZGFATWNBZmVlLmNvbT47IFZhbGVyeSBTbXlzbG92DQo+ID4g 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Boucadair Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 09:46:54 -0000 Hi, > [Med] Yes, but the current text describes the case where the DMS supplies= "its blocked traffic information": > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information to the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > orchestrator. > > So, the DMS has already done that check. [Yuhei] +1. IMO, it's no problem with sending such hints because the DMS has already blocked the traffic. Thanks, Yuhei 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5(=E7=81=AB) 18:20 : > > Re-, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.c= om] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 11:15 > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 2:00 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > links or > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content= is > > > safe. > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 10:14 > > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org C= c : > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > Hi Med, > > > > > > > > No, the orchestrator is not ignoring the mitigation hints. > > > > > > [Med] Why? The text is clear the orchestrator acts as DOTS server. As > > such, it > > > can ignore/accept hints. > > > > > > It is sending > > > > filtering rules to block or rate-limit traffic to routers (last but > > > > one line in the new paragraph). > > > > > > [Med] Yes. That filtering rule is that would be applied by the DMS if= it > > has > > > sufficient resources. > > > > > > The adverse impact is legitimate users whose > > > > IP addresses were spoofed > > > > cannot access the services of the target server. > > > > > > [Med] This is a check at the DMS side. This check applies independent= ly > > of ** > > > where ** the filters are applied. This is not specific to this NEW te= xt. > > > > If the orchestrator is sending filtering rules to block traffic, checks > > are required to ensure spoofed IP address are not conveyed by the DMS. > > [Med] Yes, but the current text describes the case where the DMS supplies= "its blocked traffic information": > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information to the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > orchestrator. > > So, the DMS has already done that check. > > If > > the orchestrator delegates the mitigation to a separate domain (recursi= ve > > signaling), > > the attack information provided by DMS can include spoofed IP addresses > > (so the new mitigator in the separate domain learns the attack traffic = is > > coming from spoofed IP addresses). > > [Med] This is not specific to this case, but applies each time there is r= ecursive signaling. > > > > > -Tiru > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Tiru > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 12:50 PM > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cl= ick > > > > links or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tiru, > > > > > > > > > > The NEW text indicates the following: > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D > > > > > In addition to the above DDoS Orchestration, the selected DDoS > > > > > mitigation systems can return back a mitigation request to the > > > > > orchestrator as an offloading. > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > .... > > > > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > > > > > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information = to > > the > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > orchestrator. > > > > > =3D=3D > > > > > > > > > > Which means that the DMS is blocking that traffic based on "some" > > > > > information. That same information is passed to an orchestrator s= o > > > > > that > > > > it can > > > > > filter the traffic. What changes is ** how/where ** filters are > > > > installed. > > > > > > > > > > Like the interface with a mitigator, the interface between the > > > > controller and > > > > > underlying routers is out of scope. > > > > > > > > > > From a DOTS perspective, the information supplied by the DMS to a= n > > > > > Orchestrator is considered as "additional hints" which is adherin= g > > > > > to > > > > RFC8612: > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D > > > > > GEN-004 Mitigation Hinting: DOTS clients may have access to > > attack > > > > > details that can be used to inform mitigation techniques. > > Example > > > > > attack details might include locally collected fingerprints > > for an > > > > > on-going attack, or anticipated or active attack focal poin= ts > > > > > based on other threat intelligence. DOTS clients MAY send > > > > > mitigation hints derived from attack details to DOTS server= s, > > with > > > > > the full understanding that the DOTS server MAY ignore > > mitigation > > > > > hints. > > > > > =3D=3D > > > > > > > > > > I don't think there are new security considerations induced by th= e > > > > > NEW > > > > text. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : Dots [mailto:dots-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Konda, > > > > > > Tirumaleswar Reddy Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 08:52 = =C3=80 : Valery > > > > > > Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & > > > > > > Patent > > > > > > Dept) Objet : Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > The security implications of the new use case need to be discus= sed > > > > > > in the draft, please see > > > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dots/tb- > > > > > > 1ojJ6TmSmRUci6JoUeD-gB1Y > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > -Tiru > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Dots On Behalf Of Valery Smyslo= v > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 11:56 AM > > > > > > > To: dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this message starts a short WGLC for > > > > > > > draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to > > > > > > confirm > > > > > > > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use c= ase > > > > > > > to the draft. > > > > > > > The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 Augus= t. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Frank & Valery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Dots mailing list > > > > > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Dots mailing list > > > > > > Dots@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots -- ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ---------------------------------- From nobody Tue Aug 6 04:52:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363C412016E for ; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 11:52:45 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBv cmFuZ2UuY29tDQo+IDxtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tPg0KPiBTZW50OiBUdWVz ZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgNiwgMjAxOSAzOjE1IFBNDQo+IFRvOiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJl ZGR5DQo+IDxUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25kYUBNY0FmZWUuY29tPjsgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNs b3YNCj4gPHZhbGVyeUBzbXlzbG92Lm5ldD47IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gQ2M6IFhpYWxpYW5n IChGcmFuaywgTmV0d29yayBTdGFuZGFyZCAmIFBhdGVudCBEZXB0KQ0KPiA8ZnJhbmsueGlhbGlh bmdAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4NCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBXR0xDIGZvciBkcmFmdC1kb3Rz LXVzZS1jYXNlcy0xOQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBSZS0sDQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGlu ZS4NCj4gDQo+IENoZWVycywNCj4gTWVkDQo+IA0KPiA+IC0tLS0tTWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUt LS0tLQ0KPiA+IERlwqA6IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkNCj4gPiBbbWFpbHRvOlRp cnVtYWxlc3dhclJlZGR5X0tvbmRhQE1jQWZlZS5jb21dDQo+ID4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBtYXJkaSA2 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aGUgSVAgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBzcG9vZmVkIG9yIG5vdCkuIElmIHRoZSBvcmNoZXN0cmF0b3IgaXMg ZGVsZWdhdGluZyB0aGUgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiB0byBhIHNlcGFyYXRlIGRvbWFpbiwgaXQgY2FuIHBy b3BhZ2F0ZSB0aGUgYXR0YWNrIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHNvIHRoZSBtaXRpZ2F0b3IgaW4gdGhlIHNl cGFyYXRlIGRvbWFpbiBoYXMga25vd2xlZGdlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGF0dGFja2VyIGlzIHVzaW5nIHNw b29mZWQgSVAgYWRkcmVzc2VzIGFuZCB0aGUgbWl0aWdhdG9yIGNhbiBvcHRpb25hbGx5IHVzZSB0 aGUgYXR0YWNrIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRvIGRldGVybWluZSB0aGUgbWl0aWdhdGlvbiBzdHJhdGVn eS4gSG93ZXZlciBJZiBvcmNoZXN0cmF0b3IgaXMgZW5mb3JjaW5nIGZpbHRlcmluZyBydWxlcyBv biByb3V0ZXJzLCBpdCBzaG91bGQgY3JlYXRlIHRoZSBibGFjay1saXN0IHJ1bGVzIGJhc2VkIG9u IHRoZSBub24tc3Bvb2ZlZCBhdHRhY2tlciBJUCBhZGRyZXNzIGFuZCBub3QgdXNlIHRoZSBzcG9v ZmVkIHZpY3RpbSBJUCBhZGRyZXNzZXMuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCi1UaXJ1DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 6 05:16:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2911200CE for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 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(unknown [xx.xx.13.86]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462tsF2w56zDq7r; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:16:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:16:17 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4A Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 12:16:16 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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bGFjay1saXN0IHJ1bGVzIGJhc2VkIG9uDQo+IHRoZSBub24tc3Bvb2ZlZCBhdHRhY2tlciBJUCBh ZGRyZXNzIGFuZCBub3QgdXNlIHRoZSBzcG9vZmVkIHZpY3RpbSBJUA0KPiBhZGRyZXNzZXMuDQo+ IA0KDQpbTWVkXSBBZ3JlZS4gV2hldGhlciB0aGUgY2hlY2sgaXMgZG9uZSBhdCB0aGUgb3JjaGVz dHJhdG9yIG9yIGJ5IHRoZSBETVMsIGlzIG5vdCBhIG5ldyBjb25jZXJuLiBUaGUgRE1TIGhhcyB0 byBwcm9jZWVkIHdpdGggdGhlc2UgY2hlY2tzLCBhbnl3YXkuIEkgZmFpbCB0byBzZWUgd2hhdCBp cyBORVcgYW5kIFNQRUNJRklDIHRvIHRoZSBvZmZsb2FkIHNjZW5hcmlvLiAgDQo= From nobody Tue Aug 6 05:21:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F64120286 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:20:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGGzIVDQ-VtF for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jpshallow.com (mail.jpshallow.com [217.40.240.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56F6B12032F for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.jpshallow.com ([192.168.0.3] helo=N01332) by mail.jpshallow.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1huySN-0006oS-T7; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:20:47 +0100 From: "Jon Shallow" To: "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , , , , References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:20:41 +0100 Message-ID: <1dd901d54c51$5ce7e160$16b7a420$@jpshallow.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQK1kisCvDc1RSBNtbNFnLiTKznvrwDa6EB0AZmZlskBifd/wwH4EnhjAjIbFfYBOPoZEgFdLKZBApa9xBgCJlPu9qSxmZ4w Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 12:21:03 -0000 I had an interesting one a couple of years back. Attackers were hitting 8.8.8.8 with a lot of DNS queries, spoofing the = victim's IP address. As there were a lot of unsolicited responses = coming from 8.8.8.8 it was deduced that there was a reflective attack in = progress against the victim's IP address and 8.8.8.8 was black-listed = (fortunately close to the victim's IP address). Unfortunately the victim IP was relying on 8.8.8.8 for its DNS services = and so was effectively taken offline - but slowly - as DNS caches timed = out for all the devices behind the corporate gateway (victim's IP). = Things were partially working for some time... So usage of 8.8.8.8 was being both spoofed and genuine. Top talkers is a hint and only that - deciding what to do with it needs = to be done with care. DOTS is a mechanism for passing information, = requesting action etc. but does not do the ultimate mitigation. Regards Jon From nobody Tue Aug 6 05:29:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3D412016C for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:29:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3LtfFh_7xEr for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBC581200B5 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id c9so3065122ybq.2 for ; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 05:29:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=M4bDMsZq92UrXa3cXmYCAHvlaTLRPAvBgIJhC0EjDJU=; b=KiTCk0QOS85/aOmvzp1bykKp1cTw7Qu4rIoMz3vtP4HzVFAFRd/VFmwjK/U3VCN1UF ULdnMAOOJEubLzAyykMV0zX7CWJ0pZ3wxPbZdwqrpyrmXdaEyzv+/AzpAein/7uPthTB kAlrlToFdursDrQsywk6BE8D7HTGZUDK2LggEptqhGGeXqVYREKnWYiUgc2MKfLpbk3+ yghPSft7iFQbowJbahUl86E1CBA3q8teNZ6ZBqysgSoJJsJRusN5JSA9/PQtbOSAswDj dcGTbH3R2m2DPbW4QBkpEsnf9RmI9v1yd88M2i6cJgbmTJM23KNHqQyzXWk89HUvfAUC 25yQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=M4bDMsZq92UrXa3cXmYCAHvlaTLRPAvBgIJhC0EjDJU=; b=M+Ou9ftrv4D277twW4hZIRX/RnEaFCQzFXrX0THbW7r/OKrwAE5YdgVykCAhyt5kPW xmawJM+ZR9dT1fPPpWMiBy7F6wJe9ZO7cTvH8AcZsT+W9PgMnBYQZlT6TMv/dPD3ANtf a3/t/fmLw2qJk7dlwNDiFRgbPgM8KsQhpdvbPZ+a1YzXDoTccK4NhNT3+M1YXeMufIG3 P5ykyobgEAx55Ci8FClbIIvGLPIIfqbGK9BtUNln9Lb1RJ3xgV9Pxfyp0l+O9ZL/yQXW BUW30xavUDsQ1yDZirq/4QMzHFoxlfgCAngoX0ttNF/nZ7EkLIaRtKeJhCu6zygH8kra 3utw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWD2u/0grYmLWBq5vLv7N46Zogg5XeYjjbj7p3kKQpf8aTVAFmq MwxxSL6trBWofVGgoAv5SlVMfgG0Cy5sh7DwKA8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx4r41qnyBHC0hNa8byalWKzO2yJ7ab7wz7I4WxVd85B2VVdt2zQt/HcXmLq0st+fsru86nUW9Fgycz1JQcCvA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:4e3:: with SMTP id w3mr2197391ybs.107.1565094573869; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 05:29:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=B6ma_Gavrichenkov?= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:29:21 +0300 Message-ID: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Cc: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001d8f5f058f71fa1b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 12:29:36 -0000 --0000000000001d8f5f058f71fa1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peace, On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 2:52 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy < TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote: > When DMS generates the attack traffic information it should include both > spoofed and attacker IP addresses (tagged with whether the IP address is > spoofed or not). > I must say I don't understand what is the reason behind collecting spoofed IP addresses. That is, especially with IPv6, an overly massive amount of data to store and transmit, and in 99,999% of cases it has exactly zero value for either attack mitigation or threat intel, b/c you may just generate that from your own /dev/urandom, it'd be of the same quality. -- T=C3=B6ma > --0000000000001d8f5f058f71fa1b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peace,

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019, 2:52 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar= Reddy <Tirumalesw= arReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:
When DMS generates the attack traffic information it should include both sp= oofed and attacker IP addresses (tagged with whether the IP address is spoo= fed or not).

I must say I don't understand what is the reason behind col= lecting spoofed IP addresses.=C2=A0 That is, especially with IPv6, an overl= y massive amount of data to store and transmit, and in 99,999% of cases it = has exactly zero value for either attack mitigation or threat intel, b/c yo= u may just generate that from your own /dev/urandom, it'd be of the sam= e quality.

--
T=C3=B6ma
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Tue, 6 Aug 2019 12:30:59 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TA= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 12:30:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.3.0.17 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [49.37.202.60] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5e096edf-e259-45c2-39fb-08d71a69efd2 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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"mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "dots@ietf.org" , "valery@smyslov.net" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAAB8yWAAABgDjA= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 12:34:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1dd901d54c51$5ce7e160$16b7a420$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: <1dd901d54c51$5ce7e160$16b7a420$@jpshallow.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.3.0.17 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [49.37.202.60] 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+pgleXx5r9vDTkMpTpBnXFjNL+g5npunsHGxmTVMm4MQ5ZFifAeu4oTNgcmWYDkhuvSLhDgRZ6jFi/MwSnIL6Uu4Jz5HdmdfiJqhNjpfZUiN8v+/qptFLUFnhL/o9pymfG0ZRaUk6oREwNabEltr8G5THKkLaKirGfLAsPFjBn/hHx7ZGmD2WvlaK5Tof9shVFHfls0DY+nKNGbbE7UoQJpYSlnP6Z3jDqgYKsIZxZ0azEAddm9AbnBmApgnvNYT+2PftTmJJmTGekXlRCql4p06YF9qqfbFMRlanBTLXPx0oFEGL4AWIFJOlP0eo7DN/U2+gIZqUlduEXA48RhlhCmxTbbdJtzN2Op9whVV/RyqwULvd+Z2mGuxncLSPt2vbOtwdvLhZLbZ9cEME+kaBceTUja49dYUHIjTiT9EgOA= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3d4ffe83-ea94-4e24-d02e-08d71a6a692a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Aug 2019 12:34:22.8384 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB2293 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6605> : inlines <7131> : streams <1829525> : uri <2879142> X-MC-Unique: e9o9py9fP8Sk86cfmsit-Q-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 12:34:40 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBKb24gU2hhbGxvdyA8c3VwanBz LWlldGZAanBzaGFsbG93LmNvbT4NCj4gU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgQXVndXN0IDYsIDIwMTkgNTo1 MSBQTQ0KPiBUbzogS29uZGEsIFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhciBSZWRkeQ0KPiA8VGlydW1hbGVzd2FyUmVk ZHlfS29uZGFATWNBZmVlLmNvbT47IGZyYW5rLnhpYWxpYW5nQGh1YXdlaS5jb207DQo+IG1vaGFt ZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb207IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IHZhbGVyeUBzbXlzbG92Lm5l dA0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogW0RvdHNdIFdHTEMgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWRvdHMtdXNlLWNhc2VzLTE5 DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IEkgaGFkIGFuIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIG9uZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiB5ZWFy cyBiYWNrLg0KPiANCj4gQXR0YWNrZXJzIHdlcmUgaGl0dGluZyA4LjguOC44IHdpdGggYSBsb3Qg b2YgRE5TIHF1ZXJpZXMsIHNwb29maW5nIHRoZSB2aWN0aW0ncw0KPiBJUCBhZGRyZXNzLiAgQXMg dGhlcmUgd2VyZSBhIGxvdCBvZiB1bnNvbGljaXRlZCByZXNwb25zZXMgY29taW5nIGZyb20gOC44 LjguOA0KPiBpdCB3YXMgZGVkdWNlZCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIHdhcyBhIHJlZmxlY3RpdmUgYXR0YWNr IGluIHByb2dyZXNzIGFnYWluc3QgdGhlDQo+IHZpY3RpbSdzIElQIGFkZHJlc3MgYW5kIDguOC44 Ljggd2FzIGJsYWNrLWxpc3RlZCAoZm9ydHVuYXRlbHkgY2xvc2UgdG8gdGhlDQo+IHZpY3RpbSdz IElQIGFkZHJlc3MpLg0KPiANCj4gVW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSB0aGUgdmljdGltIElQIHdhcyByZWx5 aW5nIG9uIDguOC44LjggZm9yIGl0cyBETlMgc2VydmljZXMgYW5kIHNvDQo+IHdhcyBlZmZlY3Rp dmVseSB0YWtlbiBvZmZsaW5lIC0gYnV0IHNsb3dseSAtIGFzIEROUyBjYWNoZXMgdGltZWQgb3V0 IGZvciBhbGwgdGhlDQo+IGRldmljZXMgYmVoaW5kIHRoZSBjb3Jwb3JhdGUgZ2F0ZXdheSAodmlj dGltJ3MgSVApLiAgVGhpbmdzIHdlcmUgcGFydGlhbGx5DQo+IHdvcmtpbmcgZm9yIHNvbWUgdGlt ZS4uLg0KPiANCj4gU28gdXNhZ2Ugb2YgOC44LjguOCB3YXMgYmVpbmcgYm90aCBzcG9vZmVkIGFu ZCBnZW51aW5lLg0KPiANCj4gVG9wIHRhbGtlcnMgaXMgYSBoaW50IGFuZCBvbmx5IHRoYXQgLSBk ZWNpZGluZyB3aGF0IHRvIGRvIHdpdGggaXQgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUNCj4gZG9uZSB3aXRoIGNhcmUu ICBET1RTIGlzIGEgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGZvciBwYXNzaW5nIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCByZXF1ZXN0aW5n DQo+IGFjdGlvbiBldGMuIGJ1dCBkb2VzIG5vdCBkbyB0aGUgdWx0aW1hdGUgbWl0aWdhdGlvbi4N Cg0KQWdyZWVkLCBJIGFtIG9ubHkgc3VnZ2VzdGluZyB0byBleHBsYWluIHRoaXMgc2NlbmFyaW8g aW4gZGV0YWlsIHRvIGF2b2lkIHBlbmFsaXppbmcgbGVnaXRpbWF0ZSB1c2Vycywgc2VlIGh0dHBz Oi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9yZmMzNTUyI3NlY3Rpb24tNQ0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQotVGly dQ0KDQo+IA0KPiBSZWdhcmRzDQo+IA0KPiBKb24NCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 6 05:52:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0323F120189 for ; 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boundary="_000_DM5PR16MB1705E536C86621FAFB2DDC71EAD50DM5PR16MB1705namp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJP5yf4cmDLU for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 975BC120170 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 05:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.71]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462vgy1sxwz10Rq; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:53:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.51]) by opfednr07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462vgy0ksJzFpX0; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:53:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:53:14 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TAAAPXKAA== Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 12:53:14 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 12:53:22 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4gDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tTWVz c2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5IFtt YWlsdG86VGlydW1hbGVzd2FyUmVkZHlfS29uZGFATWNBZmVlLmNvbV0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBt YXJkaSA2IGFvw7t0IDIwMTkgMTQ6MzENCj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgVEdJL09M TjsgVmFsZXJ5IFNteXNsb3Y7IGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gQ2PCoDogWGlhbGlhbmcgKEZyYW5r LCBOZXR3b3JrIFN0YW5kYXJkICYgUGF0ZW50IERlcHQpDQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJFOiBbRG90c10g V0dMQyBmb3IgZHJhZnQtZG90cy11c2UtY2FzZXMtMTkNCj4gDQo+ID4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gPiBGcm9tOiBtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tDQo+ID4g PG1vaGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb20+DQo+ID4gU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgQXVndXN0 IDYsIDIwMTkgNTo0NiBQTQ0KPiA+IFRvOiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5DQo+ID4g PFRpcnVtYWxlc3dhclJlZGR5X0tvbmRhQE1jQWZlZS5jb20+OyBWYWxlcnkgU215c2xvdg0KPiA+ 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from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM8F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:55:23 +0200 From: To: Jon Shallow , "'Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy'" , "frank.xialiang@huawei.com" , "dots@ietf.org" , "valery@smyslov.net" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AQK1kisCvDc1RSBNtbNFnLiTKznvrwDa6EB0AZmZlskBifd/wwH4EnhjAjIbFfYBOPoZEgFdLKZBApa9xBgCJlPu9qSxmZ4wgAAPP1A= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 12:55:23 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE84@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <1dd901d54c51$5ce7e160$16b7a420$@jpshallow.com> In-Reply-To: <1dd901d54c51$5ce7e160$16b7a420$@jpshallow.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 12:55:28 -0000 VGhhbmtzLCBKb24uIA0KDQpGdWxseSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHlvdXIgbGFzdCBzZW50ZW5jZS4gDQoN CkNoZWVycywNCk1lZA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tTWVzc2FnZSBkJ29yaWdpbmUtLS0tLQ0KPiBEZcKgOiBK b24gU2hhbGxvdyBbbWFpbHRvOnN1cGpwcy1pZXRmQGpwc2hhbGxvdy5jb21dDQo+IEVudm95w6nC oDogbWFyZGkgNiBhb8O7dCAyMDE5IDE0OjIxDQo+IMOAwqA6ICdLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2Fy IFJlZGR5JzsgZnJhbmsueGlhbGlhbmdAaHVhd2VpLmNvbTsgQk9VQ0FEQUlSDQo+IE1vaGFtZWQg VEdJL09MTjsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgdmFsZXJ5QHNteXNsb3YubmV0DQo+IE9iamV0wqA6IFJF OiBbRG90c10gV0dMQyBmb3IgZHJhZnQtZG90cy11c2UtY2FzZXMtMTkNCj4gDQo+IEkgaGFkIGFu IGludGVyZXN0aW5nIG9uZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiB5ZWFycyBiYWNrLg0KPiANCj4gQXR0YWNrZXJz IHdlcmUgaGl0dGluZyA4LjguOC44IHdpdGggYSBsb3Qgb2YgRE5TIHF1ZXJpZXMsIHNwb29maW5n IHRoZQ0KPiB2aWN0aW0ncyBJUCBhZGRyZXNzLiAgQXMgdGhlcmUgd2VyZSBhIGxvdCBvZiB1bnNv bGljaXRlZCByZXNwb25zZXMgY29taW5nDQo+IGZyb20gOC44LjguOCBpdCB3YXMgZGVkdWNlZCB0 aGF0IHRoZXJlIHdhcyBhIHJlZmxlY3RpdmUgYXR0YWNrIGluIHByb2dyZXNzDQo+IGFnYWluc3Qg dGhlIHZpY3RpbSdzIElQIGFkZHJlc3MgYW5kIDguOC44Ljggd2FzIGJsYWNrLWxpc3RlZCAoZm9y dHVuYXRlbHkNCj4gY2xvc2UgdG8gdGhlIHZpY3RpbSdzIElQIGFkZHJlc3MpLg0KPiANCj4gVW5m b3J0dW5hdGVseSB0aGUgdmljdGltIElQIHdhcyByZWx5aW5nIG9uIDguOC44LjggZm9yIGl0cyBE TlMgc2VydmljZXMNCj4gYW5kIHNvIHdhcyBlZmZlY3RpdmVseSB0YWtlbiBvZmZsaW5lIC0gYnV0 IHNsb3dseSAtIGFzIEROUyBjYWNoZXMgdGltZWQNCj4gb3V0IGZvciBhbGwgdGhlIGRldmljZXMg YmVoaW5kIHRoZSBjb3Jwb3JhdGUgZ2F0ZXdheSAodmljdGltJ3MgSVApLg0KPiBUaGluZ3Mgd2Vy ZSBwYXJ0aWFsbHkgd29ya2luZyBmb3Igc29tZSB0aW1lLi4uDQo+IA0KPiBTbyB1c2FnZSBvZiA4 LjguOC44IHdhcyBiZWluZyBib3RoIHNwb29mZWQgYW5kIGdlbnVpbmUuDQo+IA0KPiBUb3AgdGFs a2VycyBpcyBhIGhpbnQgYW5kIG9ubHkgdGhhdCAtIGRlY2lkaW5nIHdoYXQgdG8gZG8gd2l0aCBp dCBuZWVkcyB0bw0KPiBiZSBkb25lIHdpdGggY2FyZS4gIERPVFMgaXMgYSBtZWNoYW5pc20gZm9y IHBhc3NpbmcgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24sDQo+IHJlcXVlc3RpbmcgYWN0aW9uIGV0Yy4gYnV0IGRvZXMg bm90IGRvIHRoZSB1bHRpbWF0ZSBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uLg0KPiANCj4gUmVnYXJkcw0KPiANCj4gSm9u DQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Aug 6 06:05:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7320D120183 for ; 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Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:05:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AeDvMPSYSjepFhJYOJ54/0oBZuO4LdqXVRdGVwqE7kY=; b=qioMHTlaKNYGMPFUBoWEMnQx6KSMv4Gj9rMzoPYtOC4zAwMB50HHJheq5jOa7tDz0m FI6y9ThpyiZvIpUgmrEiNxYwP2VMNl9kz5+2DuzpQfTZnwqiRu8OHRWV4pdRoabUxZaf 8+yFN1edsTGW0QMdXIYXdcJRmr006cYwwy5NQaoq4e0jluynAJeaBMhHnlajAvKLp6jU dz9IKEO+dMdMl/2CfphUxPEuCLYPT8VObmH6CtgtBZl8YT4xZlbFdoZiAcz2JdiOqW5k iH+iXiDD3QTvO632tDnbhjGkLzEXGVeNzykSL3sz1jrw+sFgfqlS8NMl9L3/fNw8GTbt YgCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=AeDvMPSYSjepFhJYOJ54/0oBZuO4LdqXVRdGVwqE7kY=; b=ZvL0VDUW0YctkbkpuPS1E1hUN9G+t1R+1qvFTGeHFfTvBzjRImKnj7dkhQFmSjKVJN B8chqS0uAmmN+sbYmaAneQzMKgun1kBtt6yMEUicdtVIxHOZu1q0Rc0lrBmNSWVAKNV4 LTI8kI+j5ewYiVwcfnms7qMz6SK9MEKPx4Wgrqvybc/1ZHqDqVS0mVmObkYxaNIiQ8V5 IkMj2YFU1VqKWS4vNKfGyBpo6g0cN8FiaevRbpsn0J0V/fBfZ9teXQxoFFjjSH0B9+rE 0mmYOVZy6EVAnyMo4hLvsWqyQf4fe6Jhn0+rEzDv9i0ZJ3A8yZTczyBU7csjoDDfPqFL iBKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5rb0aWCXkKmM+IRsU/toPybaMGs3/dJvgSDh3MtFH2MZ19i5S vG6zzEKnRED3R5XkziWOgz2jx+PQ2wLl2mLn3B0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzPuXG3zusZf2UdQQ3tawPOhaMzO+CtBnMGUkg8DP5gDG67Un/E41qr1it/B+OhYkiShIT+PYjpjYJ9sFBQ76c= X-Received: by 2002:a81:301:: with SMTP id 1mr2236606ywd.102.1565096748859; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:05:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=B6ma_Gavrichenkov?= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 16:05:24 +0300 Message-ID: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Cc: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:05:52 -0000 On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 3:52 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: >> I must say I don't understand what is the reason >> behind collecting spoofed IP addresses. > > I am referring to reflection attacks > (e.g. DNS amplification attack). Especially under those attacks you must not drop traffic based on source IP addresses in it. Otherwise you will fall directly into a lovely crafted trap when the attacker starts to generate traffic with source IP addresses of your potential users. But anyway, DOTS is not about attack mitigation techniques, it's just a signalling channel. How exactly the mitigation is being carried out by either side of the channel is out of scope of the WG. > The other attack could be where the surveillance > IP camera's IP address is spoofed, traffic from this > IP address is black-listed and it no longer can send > feeds to its server Yes, this is in particular why you must not take into account any data you haven't verified, including (but not limited to) a source IP address before a handshake is completed successfully. -- T=C3=B6ma From nobody Tue Aug 6 06:06:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE4E120182 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:06:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nHmjtkTOUFMC for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 128C1120170 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id h28so61010865lfj.5 for ; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y/RHhzDzmS9mHBStpsuoJ9b2yMBuYfA+/BsPwPOuQkg=; b=QjOvEi4ribLBYmOyEhRIAl1x7k4qr3Tqvs9Yp5uKKu+HVcpeLw0AaAxQ7NJFD2Q4bM JYJYExvgw4/xmE0/t2xAlhhotcorNm5FtajnpuvDJNUnZQJ4ZkZU//S4ywq4K7wtuL8k 3XUsjLIDs8wXAWfR/rv3IIElK1lLgSxngVD8SuXseVM8AeaIc9FVoaI/AiDLKsljj9Lq LGtju3nDnlJ0YiE7rUraVA2kvGg53/jbRL+AVvgasQ2U9k+Hz3GZNztaM0P2EQ/vitej 0E4YenyWVN+jy78JSyJAQEVW/icu0PHUa8M7GF9GlY6eQOdPUYl1SecWKKTN98CvZmFj Ra5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y/RHhzDzmS9mHBStpsuoJ9b2yMBuYfA+/BsPwPOuQkg=; b=mKVSojEGc/8tQfJdH/vnxVDbWi0SPjQciWabSdOjYSMLmNQle/ntKd35ky9jxC/Dh/ Q/3Oz4iBadcRUBJ1F1r/v55CcyWzodVt+du4WHRpxgazbiUm66M9BWlTQNmhBBAUIjPU farT8avxSRGAV1PYsz/lZWE0Jl3EIRBHVj8aHE5zNxeeNylHlJ19TxpTtcCuml6Y9zgH dJojTu2IW+03RPNbzdOixRTi5+vJ93v5vqaqJq+TvWJMtZII0bwzrnOWL63oFmEkCLji 3NM8DWJBozO5z+dfWDmQhPHtHyPI0LBdAoRjj+esJr48XyVzK/Sd8aMAAXRjbPcVTNFk 2CMw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVhxB3s8SSX1ODF4YjugRM4gVMLDHX91LcBVNW82hY0QcahI6wj 6kRMixOsBvdgiqjQN1nDpeTOqKJiHpe69ulaiQk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyRH2ptaqNfXcy/ygdgAxSbisY2HZR0Xtqh2BQELnKsyNMQgnSeQQG1hukchj50tIpyl8nzDQxVybuhcJaPwQg= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5104:: with SMTP id q4mr2524381lfb.56.1565096784172; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:06:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: H Y Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 22:06:10 +0900 Message-ID: To: Mohamed Boucadair Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , Valery Smyslov , "dots@ietf.org" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:06:29 -0000 Hi Please see inline. 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5(=E7=81=AB) 21:16 : > > Re-, > > Please see inline. > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.c= om] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 13:52 > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 3:15 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 11:29 > > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org C= c : > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 2:50 PM > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not cl= ick > > > > links or > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 11:15 > > > > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.o= rg Cc : > > > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: > > > > > > [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 2:00 PM > > > > > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > > > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > > > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do no= t > > > > > > > click > > > > > > links or > > > > > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 10:14 =C3=80 : BOUCADA= IR Mohamed > > > > > > > > TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org Cc : > > > > > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE= : > > > > > > > > [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Med, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, the orchestrator is not ignoring the mitigation hints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Why? The text is clear the orchestrator acts as DOTS > > server. > > > > > > > As > > > > > > such, it > > > > > > > can ignore/accept hints. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is sending > > > > > > > > filtering rules to block or rate-limit traffic to routers > > > > > > > > (last but one line in the new paragraph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Yes. That filtering rule is that would be applied by th= e > > > > > > > DMS if it > > > > > > has > > > > > > > sufficient resources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The adverse impact is legitimate users whose > > > > > > > > IP addresses were spoofed > > > > > > > > cannot access the services of the target server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This is a check at the DMS side. This check applies > > > > > > > independently > > > > > > of ** > > > > > > > where ** the filters are applied. This is not specific to thi= s > > > > > > > NEW > > > > text. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the orchestrator is sending filtering rules to block traffic= , > > > > > > checks are required to ensure spoofed IP address are not convey= ed > > > > > > by > > > > the > > > > > DMS. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Yes, but the current text describes the case where the DMS > > > > supplies > > > > > "its blocked traffic information": > > > > > > > > > > the DDoS mitigation system can send mitigation requests > > > > > with additional hints such as its blocked traffic information t= o > > the > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > orchestrator. > > > > > > > > > > So, the DMS has already done that check. > > > > > > > > The blocked traffic information will include attack traffic from bo= th > > > > spoofed and attacker IP addresses. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] If you are saying that there is an issue if the DMS does not > > check, you > > > are right. But, again, this is not specific to the NEW text. This is = a > > general > > > problem (that is outside DOTS, BTW). > > > > No, DMS will anyway check and try not block legitimate traffic from use= rs > > whose IP addresses have been spoofed. > > > > [Med] What I'm saying is that the DMS will then follow the same logic whe= n providing the hints to the orchestrator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > the orchestrator delegates the mitigation to a separate domain > > > > > > (recursive signaling), the attack information provided by DMS c= an > > > > > > include spoofed IP addresses (so the new mitigator in the separ= ate > > > > > > domain learns the attack traffic is coming from spoofed IP > > addresses). > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This is not specific to this case, but applies each time th= ere > > > > > is > > > > recursive > > > > > signaling. > > > > > > > > My comment is to using the attack information of spoofed IP address= es > > > > to filter traffic would penalize legitimate users, and the text is = not > > > > clear me. I suggest adding a line for clarity, DMS may supply both > > > > spoofed and attacker IP addresses in the attack information to the > > > > orchestrator. The orchestrator will only use the non-spoofed IP > > > > addresses to enforce filtering rules on routers. > > > > > > [Med] I was assuming this is already done by the DMS to generate "its > > > blocked traffic information", but if you prefer the text to be explic= it, > > it will > > > need to be generic: > > > > > > the check is not specific to the NEW text but applies also in the > > general DMS > > > case (without offloading). > > > > When DMS generates the attack traffic information it should include bot= h > > spoofed and attacker IP addresses (tagged with whether the IP address i= s > > spoofed or not). > > [Med] Why it should not check? > > If the orchestrator is delegating the mitigation to a > > separate domain, it can propagate the attack information so the mitigat= or > > in the separate domain has knowledge that the attacker is using spoofed= IP > > addresses and the mitigator can optionally use the attack information t= o > > determine the mitigation strategy. > > [Med] The recursive case is not covered in the current text. I don't thin= k we need to elaborate on this further. > > However If orchestrator is enforcing > > filtering rules on routers, it should create the black-list rules based= on > > the non-spoofed attacker IP address and not use the spoofed victim IP > > addresses. > > > > [Med] Agree. Whether the check is done at the orchestrator or by the DMS,= is not a new concern. The DMS has to proceed with these checks, anyway. I = fail to see what is NEW and SPECIFIC to the offload scenario. [Yuhei] The NEW point of the offload scenario is that DMS has DOTS client function in DDoS orchestration usecase, and the orchestrator can take further actions based on result of DMS's detailed analysis. Thanks, Yuhei > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots --=20 ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ---------------------------------- From nobody Tue Aug 6 06:08:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7356112018E for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:08:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nf0Vhg5kV_Yc for ; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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b=oa+xLxNgBkoBDT5TNUVR83dWM7M89uHSFsvsEpfbfurUKPc9vPhff3a15Q5l2TApf/ 0u4K56LZKkq5yLN+O+/8kRP17uksiwNPm1FCM/tGCyJe3aWOy1SSW0RZ+Feol7FEhSFp tnwXRWw+A/cIhN0MJwhdzFESEvUXYU02k+Gde88kWGxgrrZ4l7c49KOp3kAmR0JWT9Hg +QKqbdRq25MYnWgO8pf1tQEA2PRlRyZiTJVjMkLx8h1P1G/LU9NcZHrKsA9ZpgJE3PB3 ppiyOCpaS4iHb/fH+HAh7LRzVm2fTBn8CqBJVk86Jx51hD35Kc0k4yC1bPX8hrqQPJjq yBqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV1OnuBz1qp5IcWWbud+jSFVMSQkjVj2uUsFEia1s73YNJrlS6+ L7YP6mhTCOAWHlIyaW/LftwtQM2p5NnG91opy/vgGJdw X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzza/ZlANt14lxB3YXEzyJ6N3/SW3oVR1qkUI8w49sZOLdhAB7Vbjh1OEt9gGa3E71J5R+GPzNsxYXwppZHkk4= X-Received: by 2002:a81:e24c:: with SMTP id z12mr2267874ywl.175.1565096897190; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 06:08:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=B6ma_Gavrichenkov?= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 16:07:53 +0300 Message-ID: To: Valery Smyslov Cc: dots , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:08:21 -0000 On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 9:26 AM Valery Smyslov wrote: > this message starts a short WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to conf= irm > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case to the d= raft. I support advancing the draft as it is now. -- T=C3=B6ma From nobody Tue Aug 6 06:13:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6596412018E for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:13:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1gkmGPHynWT for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99868120182 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 06:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462w7H0gLKz5wP8; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.38]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 462w7H16hnzyQ4; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::393d:418c:3f1d:991d%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:13:30 +0200 From: To: H Y CC: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" , "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AQHVTFfBWeNm+qrZFEWI5uHup0s9bKbuGAaQ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:13:29 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF13@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:13:35 -0000 SGkgWXVoZWksDQoNCkkgd2FzIG5vdCBxdWVzdGlvbmluZyB0aGUgbmV3IG9mZmxvYWQgdGV4dC4g TXkgcXVlc3Rpb24gdG8gVGlydSB3YXMgYWJvdXQgbmV3IHNlY3VyaXR5IGlzc3VlcyBzcGVjaWZp YyB0byB0aGUgb2ZmbG9hZC4gDQoNCkZyb20gd2hlcmUgSSBzaXQsIEkgc3RpbGwgZG9uJ3Qgc2Vl IGFueSBzcGVjaWZpYyBpc3N1ZSBpbmR1Y2VkIGJ5IHRoZSBvZmZsb2FkLiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0K TWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEggWSBbbWFpbHRv Onl1dWhlaS5oYXlhc2hpQGdtYWlsLmNvbV0NCj4gRW52b3nDqcKgOiBtYXJkaSA2IGFvw7t0IDIw MTkgMTU6MDYNCj4gw4DCoDogQk9VQ0FEQUlSIE1vaGFtZWQgVEdJL09MTg0KPiBDY8KgOiBLb25k YSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5OyBWYWxlcnkgU215c2xvdjsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgWGlh bGlhbmcNCj4gKEZyYW5rLCBOZXR3b3JrIFN0YW5kYXJkICYgUGF0ZW50IERlcHQpDQo+IE9iamV0 wqA6IFJlOiBbRG90c10gV0dMQyBmb3IgZHJhZnQtZG90cy11c2UtY2FzZXMtMTkNCj4gDQo+IEhp DQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCj4gDQo+IDIwMTnlubQ45pyINuaXpSjngaspIDIx OjE2IDxtb2hhbWVkLmJvdWNhZGFpckBvcmFuZ2UuY29tPjoNCj4gPg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gIEhvd2V2 ZXIgSWYgb3JjaGVzdHJhdG9yIGlzIGVuZm9yY2luZw0KPiA+ID4gZmlsdGVyaW5nIHJ1bGVzIG9u IHJvdXRlcnMsIGl0IHNob3VsZCBjcmVhdGUgdGhlIGJsYWNrLWxpc3QgcnVsZXMNCj4gYmFzZWQg b24NCj4gPiA+IHRoZSBub24tc3Bvb2ZlZCBhdHRhY2tlciBJUCBhZGRyZXNzIGFuZCBub3QgdXNl IHRoZSBzcG9vZmVkIHZpY3RpbSBJUA0KPiA+ID4gYWRkcmVzc2VzLg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+ IFtNZWRdIEFncmVlLiBXaGV0aGVyIHRoZSBjaGVjayBpcyBkb25lIGF0IHRoZSBvcmNoZXN0cmF0 b3Igb3IgYnkgdGhlDQo+IERNUywgaXMgbm90IGEgbmV3IGNvbmNlcm4uIFRoZSBETVMgaGFzIHRv IHByb2NlZWQgd2l0aCB0aGVzZSBjaGVja3MsDQo+IGFueXdheS4gSSBmYWlsIHRvIHNlZSB3aGF0 IGlzIE5FVyBhbmQgU1BFQ0lGSUMgdG8gdGhlIG9mZmxvYWQgc2NlbmFyaW8uDQo+IFtZdWhlaV0N Cj4gVGhlIE5FVyBwb2ludCBvZiB0aGUgb2ZmbG9hZCBzY2VuYXJpbyBpcyB0aGF0IERNUyBoYXMg RE9UUyBjbGllbnQNCj4gZnVuY3Rpb24gaW4gRERvUyBvcmNoZXN0cmF0aW9uIHVzZWNhc2UsIGFu ZCB0aGUgb3JjaGVzdHJhdG9yIGNhbiB0YWtlDQo+IGZ1cnRoZXIgYWN0aW9ucyBiYXNlZCBvbiBy ZXN1bHQgb2YgRE1TJ3MgZGV0YWlsZWQgYW5hbHlzaXMuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IFl1aGVp DQo= From nobody Tue Aug 6 06:35:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E661201A1 for ; 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Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:35:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM8F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:35:45 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TAAAPXKAAAAowWgAABjpEA= Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:35:44 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:35:49 -0000 UmUtLA0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlubGluZS4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNz YWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkgW21h aWx0bzpUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25kYUBNY0FmZWUuY29tXQ0KPiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IG1h cmRpIDYgYW/Du3QgMjAxOSAxNTowOA0KPiDDgMKgOiBCT1VDQURBSVIgTW9oYW1lZCBUR0kvT0xO OyBWYWxlcnkgU215c2xvdjsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDY8KgOiBYaWFsaWFuZyAoRnJhbmss IE5ldHdvcmsgU3RhbmRhcmQgJiBQYXRlbnQgRGVwdCkNCj4gT2JqZXTCoDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBX R0xDIGZvciBkcmFmdC1kb3RzLXVzZS1jYXNlcy0xOQ0KPiANCi4uLg0KPiA+ID4gPiBbTWVkXSBU aGUgcmVjdXJzaXZlIGNhc2UgaXMgbm90IGNvdmVyZWQgaW4gdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgdGV4dC4gSSBk b24ndA0KPiA+ID4gdGhpbmsgd2UNCj4gPiA+ID4gbmVlZCB0byBlbGFib3JhdGUgb24gdGhpcyBm dXJ0aGVyLg0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+IEkgZG9uJ3QgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB3aHkgcmVjdXJzaXZlIGNh c2Ugc2hvdWxkIGJlIGV4Y2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZQ0KPiA+ID4gY3VycmVudCB0ZXh0ID8NCj4gPg0K 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Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2136.14; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 06:35:03 +0000 Received: from DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::532:f001:84e1:55ba]) by DM5PR16MB1705.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::532:f001:84e1:55ba%10]) with mapi id 15.20.2136.018; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 06:35:03 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Valery Smyslov" , "dots@ietf.org" CC: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TAAAPXKAAAAowWgAABjpEAAJBX+4A== Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 06:35:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.3.0.17 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [103.245.47.20] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 02c76c98-8020-4653-ee3e-08d71b016147 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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acu4G4eyTDnX4Fjh8drj4f/XEzVDuavHj+x3G7NolCizYCCWlm8cv4SLwsjcHmSrLhJFmIGVUzzXPaEowCyM2YZcYzxgOd8PvmIuNwPWk7oDDyR57DNDCAMZsOly4qD8l7POnDMUqLNitjTGOJyZPsFSSxJ8BM/UZaELOXNs0hM11ut1AO2HkMRlfXbd7UPPGqmAA941m7gL5690uvEhU0A68nyYeuheIKtjbKTVSMlhJLZI2fNyuPUWv/tSfOHfmQt/FOUCSCq1FbWp8NsnhwY8Ho3kr6SbopDIXlcMb2+rMqty/nWD8BRHWdw4a1A+otsZD75RHaQFXMxcu6mAQ5gCAIUfKn9gh0YvfK9N44UMvuBB8dTu6dF9av1rzFSQbUifah0+3qCVhQgF32+2DEnLTM6eqD6RGoaLZdl/7cg= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 02c76c98-8020-4653-ee3e-08d71b016147 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Aug 2019 06:35:03.4706 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB1449 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6606> : inlines <7132> : streams <1829597> : uri <2879608> X-MC-Unique: hcNzerr8Ojq8lde0AHP0RA-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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b3JlIGNvbnRleHR1YWxpemVkIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGZvciBhIG5ldHdvcmsgb3JjaGVzdHJhdG9y LiBUaGUgc2VudGVuY2UNCj4gdXNlcyAiY2FuIiwgImxpa2UiIHdoaWNoIGlzIGZpbmUgZm9yIGls bHVzdHJhdGlvbiBwdXJwb3Nlcy4gQXMgYSByZWFkZXIsIEkgcHJlZmVyDQo+IHRvIGxlYXZlIGl0 Lg0KDQpJIHN1Z2dlc3QgdG8gYWRkIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscyBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhlIHRocmVh ZC4gQW55d2F5cywgd2lsbCBsZWF2ZSBpdCB0byB5b3UgYW5kIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIHRvIGRlY2lk ZSwgYW5kIEkgYW0gbm90IG9iamVjdGluZyB0byBwcm9ncmVzc2luZyB0aGUgZHJhZnQgDQp3aXRo b3V0IHRoZSBwcm9wb3NlZCB1cGRhdGUuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCi1UaXJ1DQo= From nobody Wed Aug 7 04:02:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FD51206A8 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 04:02:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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(version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 12:01:54 +0100 Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 12:01:54 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.208]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 19:01:49 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: H Y CC: dots Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload Thread-Index: AdVMCgmZ4COkfVoLSrijKGXrfvkNkv//0rqA//9H9AA= Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 11:01:48 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE437B8@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE3F02A@nkgeml513-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Comments for draft-hayashi-dots-dms-offload X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2019 11:02:01 -0000 SGkgWXVoZWksDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzICYgVGhhbmtzIQ0K5r2Y 5LyfIFdlaSBQYW4NCuWNjuS4uuaKgOacr+aciemZkOWFrOWPuCBIdWF3ZWkgVGVjaG5vbG9naWVz IENvLiwgTHRkLg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEggWSBb bWFpbHRvOnl1dWhlaS5oYXlhc2hpQGdtYWlsLmNvbV0NCj4gU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgQXVndXN0 IDA2LCAyMDE5IDU6MDggUE0NCj4gVG86IFBhbndlaSAoV2lsbGlhbSkgPHdpbGxpYW0ucGFud2Vp QGh1YXdlaS5jb20+DQo+IENjOiBkb3RzIDxkb3RzQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog Q29tbWVudHMgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWhheWFzaGktZG90cy1kbXMtb2ZmbG9hZA0KPiANCj4gSGkgV2Vp IFBhbiwNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgcmVhZGluZyBteSBkcmFmdCBjYXJlZnVsbHkuDQo+ IFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lLg0KPiANCj4gMjAxOeW5tDjmnIg25pelKOeBqykgMTI6NTIgUGFu d2VpIChXaWxsaWFtKQ0KPiA8d2lsbGlhbS5wYW53ZWlAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT46DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBI aSBZdWhlaSwNCj4gPg0KPiA+IEluIHRoZSBJRVRGIDEwNSBtZWV0aW5nLCB0aGVyZSB3YXNu4oCZ 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bXB0aW9uIGluIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4NCg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzLA0KPiBZdWhlaQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+ ID4gUmVnYXJkcyAmIFRoYW5rcyENCj4gPg0KPiA+IOa9mOS8nyBXZWkgUGFuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiDl jY7kuLrmioDmnK/mnInpmZDlhazlj7ggSHVhd2VpIFRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBDby4sIEx0ZC4NCj4g Pg0KPiA+DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IC0tDQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0NCj4gWXV1aGVpIEhBWUFTSEkNCj4gMDgwNjUzMDA4ODQNCj4geXV1aGVpLmhheWFzaGlA Z21haWwuY29tDQo+IGllaHV1eV8wMjIwQGRvY29tby5uZS5qcA0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo= From nobody Thu Aug 8 00:14:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DAD12010E for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dc6OhT7UL37d for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE35612010D for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 46403l11dpzCrgl; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 09:14:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.23]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 46403l0TZ6zDq7B; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 09:14:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e878:bd0:c89e:5b42]) by OPEXCAUBM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 09:14:10 +0200 From: To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" CC: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TAAAPXKAAAAowWgAABjpEAAJBX+4AAz0QbA Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:14:10 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 07:14:15 -0000 SGkgVGlydSwgDQoNCk9LLiBJIHByZXBhcmVkIGEgcHJvcG9zYWwgYXQ6IGh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHVi LmNvbS9kb3Rzd2cvZG90cy11c2UtY2FzZXMvcHVsbC8xMS9maWxlcyANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KTWVk DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1NZXNzYWdlIGQnb3JpZ2luZS0tLS0tDQo+IERlwqA6IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFs ZXN3YXIgUmVkZHkgW21haWx0bzpUaXJ1bWFsZXN3YXJSZWRkeV9Lb25kYUBNY0FmZWUuY29tXQ0K PiBFbnZvecOpwqA6IG1lcmNyZWRpIDcgYW/Du3QgMjAxOSAwODozNQ0KPiDDgMKgOiBCT1VDQURB SVIgTW9oYW1lZCBUR0kvT0xOOyBWYWxlcnkgU215c2xvdjsgZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDY8Kg OiBYaWFsaWFuZyAoRnJhbmssIE5ldHdvcmsgU3RhbmRhcmQgJiBQYXRlbnQgRGVwdCkNCj4gT2Jq ZXTCoDogUkU6IFtEb3RzXSBXR0xDIGZvciBkcmFmdC1kb3RzLXVzZS1jYXNlcy0xOQ0KPiANCj4g PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiA+IEZyb206IG1vaGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWly QG9yYW5nZS5jb20NCj4gPiA8bW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbT4NCj4gPiBTZW50 OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgNiwgMjAxOSA3OjA2IFBNDQo+ID4gVG86IEtvbmRhLCBUaXJ1bWFs 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d29yayBvcmNoZXN0cmF0b3IuIFRoZSBzZW50ZW5jZQ0KPiA+IHVzZXMgImNhbiIsICJsaWtlIiB3 aGljaCBpcyBmaW5lIGZvciBpbGx1c3RyYXRpb24gcHVycG9zZXMuIEFzIGEgcmVhZGVyLA0KPiBJ IHByZWZlcg0KPiA+IHRvIGxlYXZlIGl0Lg0KPiANCj4gSSBzdWdnZXN0IHRvIGFkZCBtb3JlIGRl dGFpbHMgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGluIHRoZSB0aHJlYWQuIEFueXdheXMsIHdpbGwgbGVhdmUNCj4gaXQg dG8geW91IGFuZCB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyB0byBkZWNpZGUsIGFuZCBJIGFtIG5vdCBvYmplY3Rpbmcg dG8gcHJvZ3Jlc3NpbmcNCj4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0DQo+IHdpdGhvdXQgdGhlIHByb3Bvc2VkIHVwZGF0 ZS4NCj4gDQo+IENoZWVycywNCj4gLVRpcnUNCg== From nobody Thu Aug 8 00:24:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49757120129 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2019 00:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, 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"dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 Thread-Index: AdVMHvzhmt/V33ByRr+d368GCi1ExgABDh/gAAA/2oAAAmsFAAAApBygAAFk76AAAGXy8AAALP6QAAB9ubAAA9IiYAABiL4AAABR/TAAAPXKAAAAowWgAABjpEAAJBX+4AAz0QbAAABlq4A= Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 07:23:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.3.0.17 dlp-reaction: no-action x-originating-ip: [103.245.47.20] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9b915c69-061b-44eb-db89-08d71bd15019 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:DM5PR16MB1833; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR16MB1833: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 012349AD1C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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mzHGqxRYYKUhk5Wob+QublulzyXxJjV91LLua0Zx6dc1VxytseQ5tUFsRqUnJ2UFPDjcHTNuyRE5zvGy9YS1Ap/b00kU/4PdmSbeEaLNk275lSs/EkWXTuRA2Dkc7Xo5BVbOiIExrd5kYY6ABdz3tSukHb5reAlvG8skX3XIbdd0maxswCyh5AUAFpyRBcYo8yi5f3Uw2ZwPCskom3TI4kMz6p8tPW2pAkGNYH2aA+AdRb3lTL35VPCSsff69IHA0wuYu71v5ngx6Xnluq6IkaGpUDJ0sjylEZWwTlDMUizFtYOJGhE4NCg7n/fACrCryTHO7FXNY5vnAiyhADS5uLJP/VjQYQp+FZQMYamLMKKP/U+lc5TagVVe6vcQCGvX01x/aqGqLnDKX2FnxAIJDyVQPT57uBsI7HuQMQp4rQ4= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9b915c69-061b-44eb-db89-08d71bd15019 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Aug 2019 07:23:30.1671 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4943e38c-6dd4-428c-886d-24932bc2d5de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR16MB1833 X-OriginatorOrg: mcafee.com X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Level: X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 15 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9418 : core <6607> : inlines <7132> : streams <1829696> : uri <2880197> X-MC-Unique: 18Yh3MzjOQqFEo9CzCDycw-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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YXJ0cyBtaXRpZ2F0aW9uIg0KPiA+ID4gYnV0DQo+ID4gd2l0aA0KPiA+ID4gbW9yZSBjb250ZXh0 dWFsaXplZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBmb3IgYSBuZXR3b3JrIG9yY2hlc3RyYXRvci4gVGhlDQo+ID4g PiBzZW50ZW5jZSB1c2VzICJjYW4iLCAibGlrZSIgd2hpY2ggaXMgZmluZSBmb3IgaWxsdXN0cmF0 aW9uIHB1cnBvc2VzLg0KPiA+ID4gQXMgYSByZWFkZXIsDQo+ID4gSSBwcmVmZXINCj4gPiA+IHRv IGxlYXZlIGl0Lg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gSSBzdWdnZXN0IHRvIGFkZCBtb3JlIGRldGFpbHMgZGlzY3Vz c2VkIGluIHRoZSB0aHJlYWQuIEFueXdheXMsIHdpbGwNCj4gPiBsZWF2ZSBpdCB0byB5b3UgYW5k IHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIHRvIGRlY2lkZSwgYW5kIEkgYW0gbm90IG9iamVjdGluZyB0bw0KPiA+IHBy b2dyZXNzaW5nIHRoZSBkcmFmdCB3aXRob3V0IHRoZSBwcm9wb3NlZCB1cGRhdGUuDQo+ID4NCj4g PiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+ID4gLVRpcnUNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 13 07:23:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietf.org Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F8612021D; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:23:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.100.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: rdd@cert.org, The IESG , dots@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, Roman Danyliw , dots-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-dots-data-channel@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <156570621660.24214.5209506759322071556.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 07:23:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Protocol Action: 'Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-31.txt) X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:23:37 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Distributed Denial-of-Service Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Data Channel Specification' (draft-ietf-dots-data-channel-31.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the DDoS Open Threat Signaling Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Benjamin Kaduk and Roman Danyliw. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-data-channel/ Technical Summary This document specifies the DOTS data channel, one of two protocols (the other being the DOTS signal channel -- draft-ietf-dots-signal-channel) that enables the exchange of information necessary to mitigate a DDoS attack. This data channel protocol allows the exchange of information that is not appropriate to send under attack conditions. This is a companion document to the DOTS signal channel specification. Working Group Summary This document received substantial feedback from a WGLC initiated on the -18, leading up to the publication of several revisions through -21. The shpeherd review produced further feedback for the -22 and the WG has been active in following subsequent updates stemming from AD review, directorate reviews, and last-call reviews. Document Quality There have been three implementations of the draft, one open source and two proprietary from the following vendors: ** go-dots (NTT) -- https://github.com/nttdots/go-dots ** NCC Group ** Huawei Older versions of the draft were used in interops at the Hackathons of IETF 100 and 101 to enable end-to-end testing for DOTS agents. At the IETF 102 Hackathon, there was an inter-op specifically focused on testing between these three implementations per the -16 of the draft. Identified issues were fixed in draft versions -17 and -18. There was early coordination with the NETCONF WG for the usage of ACL YANG modules. Personnel The document shepherd is Roman Danyliw. The responsible Area Director is Benjamin Kaduk. RFC Editor Note In Section 3.4, in the text: o Otherwise, the DOTS agent MUST update or insert the "Via" header by appending its own information. please replace "header" with "header field". From nobody Thu Aug 15 00:14:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4AD120058; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:14:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sXUINgTxCiAm; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78BA612004E; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B3C42E222E84BADD388B; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:14:32 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:14:32 +0100 Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:14:31 +0100 Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:14:31 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 15:14:13 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: "draft-reddy-dots-telemetry@ietf.org" CC: dots , MeiLing Chen Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry Thread-Index: AdVTOBBDEvMvOVKpRu6D+SYiSuQpYQ== Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 07:14:12 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE651BA@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE651BAnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] Comments for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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Hi authors,

 

First of all, I=A1=AFm sorry for the late comments.<= /span>

In general, I support this work, I think telemetry can help the= DDoS attack mitigation if it is used properly. Below is my comments.<= /o:p>

1. I agree that DOTS telemetry should has a dedicated URI.=

2. In Section 4.1.1, totally I=A1=AFm OK with the idea of the = =A1=AETotal Traffic Normal Baseline=A1=AF.

  2.1. I didn=A1=AFt figure out what the low, mid and high= percentile actually stand for, or how to understand them. I think average = bandwidth, peak bandwidth and usual bandwidth range (which contains minimum bandwidth and maximum bandwidth) are useful for re= ference. There may be a confusion between the peak bandwidth and the maximu= m bandwidth. But IMO they are different: the peak bandwidth is a burst high= value that only lasts for a short while, e.g., a few seconds or minutes, and the maximum bandwidth is a cont= inuous high value that can last for a long time, e.g., a few hours.

  2.2. The statistics results can be quite different durin= g different time ranges, for example, the bandwidth may be much higher duri= ng 6:00 pm to 12:00 pm than 6:00 am to 12:00 am. So for accuracy, it=A1=AFs better to separately calculate the baseline= in different time ranges.

3. In Section 4.1.3 and 4.1.4, about the =A1=AETotal Attack Tra= ffic=A1=AF and =A1=AETotal Traffic=A1=AF, I think they should reflect the c= urrent attack traffic bandwidth and current traffic bandwidth, so whether only one current value is enough? Are the low percentile, mid p= ercentile, high percentile and peak values still needed?<= /p>

4. In Section 4.1.5, about the =A1=AEAttack Details=A1=AF:=

  4.1. I don=A1=AFt like the =A1=AEvendor-id=A1=AF and =A1= =AEattack-id=A1=AF unless they are optional. The =A1=AEattack-id=A1=AF is m= aintained by each vendor, the combination of =A1=AEvendor-id=A1=AF and =A1= =AEattack-id=A1=AF can be enormous, so it=A1=AFs a burden for implementation to understand and map t= hese elements. Especially the DOTS client needs to implement the =A1=AEAtta= ck Details=A1=AF attribute as described in Section 4.3.1.=

  4.2. Here the =A1=AEattack-name=A1=AF is designed to use= textual representation to express the attack type. Meiling also designed a= mechanism to express the attack type in her draft (draft-chen-dots-attack-= informations-02). Meiling=A1=AFs mechanism is more complicated in rules definition, but it m= ay be easier to implement and understand. The textual representation mechan= ism here seems like very easy because it has no rules definition, but it ne= eds Natural Language Processing techniques, are these NLP techniques easy for implementing? Because of no unified rule= s, will the analysis results be different by different implementation?=

  4.3. For the =A1=AEattack-severity=A1=AF, I feel this el= ement is too subjective, what=A1=AFs the standards for distinguishing among= =A1=AEemergency=A1=AF, =A1=AEcritical=A1=AF and =A1=AEalert=A1=AF?

5. In Section 4.2, about the =A1=AEMitigation Efficacy DOTS Tel= emetry Attributes=A1=AF, except the =A1=AETotal Attack Traffic=A1=AF, I thi= nk =A1=AETotal Traffic=A1=AF and =A1=AETotal Pipe Capability=A1=AF can also= be included here. Because for some cases, the DOTS client can=A1=AFt distingu= ish attack traffic from total traffic, then it will not be able to send the= =A1=AETotal Attack Traffic=A1=AF, but it can send the current =A1=AETotal = Traffic=A1=AF and =A1=AETotal Pipe Capability=A1=AF to indicate the mitigation efficacy. This is also mentioned in Meiling=A1=AFs draft.<= /o:p>

6. The telemetry attributes are divided into three categories: = Pre-mitigation, Mitigation Efficacy, Mitigation Status. I think these categ= ories are reasonable and clear. But I found the attributes are basically related to bandwidth. Bandwidth is usef= ul for volume-based DDoS attack, but for resource-based DDoS attack, other = attributes are needed.

  6.1. To assess the resource-based DDoS attack, the stati= stics of session will be helpful. This statistics can be made from differen= t dimensions: the number of sessions based on protocols like TCP/UDP/ICMP, the number of sessions per source IP, the = number of source IPs, etc..

  6.2. This statistics of session can be added into the = =A1=AETotal Traffic Normal Baseline=A1=AF, also be added into =A1=AETotal t= raffic=A1=AF and =A1=AETotal Capability=A1=AF. The YANG module tree of my u= nderstanding is attached at the end for reference.

  6.3. Some other information which can help identify an a= ttack can also be considered and included. For example, in some attacks the= attackers establish many sessions with a very long lifetime, so the statistics of session lifetime may help.<= /span>

 

7. Discussion:

I=A1=AFd like to raise a discussion here. I tried to consider t= he telemetry from aspects of =A1=AEwhy=A1=AF, =A1=AEwhat=A1=AF, =A1=AEwho= =A1=AF, =A1=AEwhere=A1=AF, =A1=AEwhen=A1=AF and =A1=AEhow=A1=AF. =A1=AEWhy = we need telemetry=A1=AF is described in Section 3 and =A1=AEWhat are the telemetry attributes=A1=AF is describe is= Section 4. For the left =A1=AEwho=A1=AF, =A1=AEwhere=A1=AF, =A1=AEwhen=A1= =AF and =A1=AEhow=A1=AF, I conclude them as =A1=AEhow will we use this tele= metry=A1=AF, i.e., in which scenario which role will send which telemetry a= ttributes by which channel, this is not described yet. So do we need to describe =A1=AEhow wi= ll we use this telemetry=A1=AF?

 

----------------------------------------------------------=

The YANG Module Tree for the statistics of session:<= /span>

module: ietf-dots-telemetry

   +--rw pre-mitigation-telemetry

   |  +--rw total-traffic-normal-baseline* [= start-time end-time]

   |  |  +--rw start-time  &n= bsp;        yang:date-and-time

   |  |  +--rw end-time  &nbs= p;          yang:date-and-time=

   |  |  +--rw normal-bandwidth

   |  |  |  ......

   |  |  +--rw normal-session

   |  |     +--rw number= -of-user  // The statistics of users (e.g., source IPs)

   |  |     |  +--r= w average        uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w peak           uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w minimum        uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w maximum        uint64

   |  |     +--rw sessio= ns-per-user  // The statistics of sessions per user (e.g., per source = IP)

   |  |     |  +--r= w average        uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w peak           uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w minimum        uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w maximum        uint64

   |  |     +--rw sessio= ns-in-total  // The statistics of total sessions

   |  |     |  +--r= w average        uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w peak           uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w minimum        uint64

   |  |     |  +--r= w maximum        uint64

   |  |     +--rw sessio= ns-per-protocol* [ip-version ip-protocol protocol]  // The statistics = of sessions per protocol

   |  |       = ; +--rw ip-version     inet:ip-version  // IPv= 4 or IPv6

   |  |       = ; +--rw ip-protocol    uint8   // IP protocol = number, for example ICMP is 1, TCP is 6, UDP is 17, etc.<= /p>

   |  |       = ; +--rw port          = ; uint16  // TCP port/UDP port/ICMP type etc., this can indicate the t= ype of upper layer protocol

   |  |       = ; +--rw average        uint64

   |  |       = ; +--rw peak          = ; uint64

  |  |       = +--rw minimum        uint64

   |  |       = ; +--rw maximum        uint64

   |  +--rw total-capability

   |  |  +--rw pipe-capability

   |  |  |  ......

   |  |  +--rw session-capability<= /o:p>

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-users           &n= bsp;  uint64  // Maximum number of users (e.g., source IPs)<= /o:p>

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-sessions-per-user  uint64  // Maximum number of sessions per us= er (e.g., source IP)

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-sessions-in-total  uint64  // Maximum number of total sessions<= o:p>

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-sessions-per-protocol* [ip-version ip-protocol protocol]

   |  |       = ; +--rw ip-version         = ;     inet:ip-version

   |  |       = ; +--rw ip-protocol        &nbs= p;    uint8

   |  |       = ; +--rw port          = ;          uint16

   |  |       = ; +--rw maximum         &n= bsp;       uint64  // Maximum number of = sessions for each protocol

   |  +--rw total-attack-traffic<= /span>

   |  |  ......

   |  +--rw total-traffic<= /p>

   |     +--rw current-bandwi= dth

   |     |  ......

   |     +--rw current-sessio= n

   |        +-= -rw current-users         &nbs= p;    uint64  // Current number of users (e.g., source = IPs)

   |        +-= -rw current-sessions-per-user  uint64  // Average number of curre= nt sessions per user (e.g., source IP)

   |        +-= -rw current-sessions-in-total  uint64  // Current number of total= sessions

   |        +-= -rw current-sessions-per-protocol* [ip-version ip-protocol protocol]

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw ip-version       &= nbsp;      inet:ip-version

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw ip-protocol       =       uint8

   |         =   +--rw port        &= nbsp;           uint16

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw current-sessions      &= nbsp; uint64  // Current number of sessions for each protocol

   +--rw mitigation-efficacy-telemetry=

   |  +--rw total-capability

   |  |  +--rw pipe-capability

   |  |  |  ......

   |  |  +--rw session-capability<= /o:p>

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-users           &n= bsp;  uint64  // Maximum number of users (e.g., source IPs)<= /o:p>

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-sessions-per-user  uint64  // Maximum number of sessions per us= er (e.g., source IP)

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-sessions-in-total  uint64  // Maximum number of total sessions<= o:p>

   |  |     +--rw maximu= m-sessions-per-protocol* [ip-version ip-protocol protocol]

   |  |       = ; +--rw ip-version         = ;     inet:ip-version

   |  |       = ; +--rw ip-protocol        &nbs= p;    uint8

   |  |       = ; +--rw port          = ;          uint16

   |  |       = ; +--rw maximum         &n= bsp;       uint64  // Maximum number of = sessions for each protocol

   |  +--rw total-attack-traffic<= /span>

   |  |  ......

   |  +--rw total-traffic<= /p>

   |     +--rw current-bandwi= dth

   |     |  ......

   |     +--rw current-sessio= n

   |        +-= -rw current-users         &nbs= p;    uint64  // Current number of users (e.g., source = IPs)

   |        +-= -rw current-sessions-per-user  uint64  // Average number of curre= nt sessions per user (e.g., source IP)

   |        +-= -rw current-sessions-in-total  uint64  // Current number of total= sessions

   |        +-= -rw current-sessions-per-protocol* [ip-version ip-protocol protocol]

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw ip-version       &= nbsp;      inet:ip-version

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw ip-protocol       =       uint8

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw port        &= nbsp;           uint16

   |        &= nbsp;  +--rw current-sessions      &= nbsp; uint64  // Current number of sessions for each protocol

   +--rw mitigation-status-telemetry

      ......

 

Regards &= Thanks!

=C5= =CB=CE=B0 Wei Pan

=BB=AA=CE=AA=BC=BC= =CA=F5=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.

 

--_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE651BAnkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Thu Aug 15 01:57:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96F5120047 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 01:57:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smyslov.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id btyP_sng21I9 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 01:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from direct.host-care.com (direct.host-care.com [198.136.54.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5019112003E for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 01:57:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smyslov.net ; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=NMoFaKfDuE73qa9ebtbkk3lBActlAW4LQ6j0y+6Bwoc=; b=0YEmdIa8CDHqVcdiVpLgeKHw/t G9vJStZAC9tON2/R/PXQZZEEIoa4K1Gl561xOpt+xDHI3HPmzLlnBPEYfnHEEYgeW36ju/wWgpfBJ Wd55r/bKmV7IwJ82Ps/wOnfmgdUifBiV8+h+rMtjg3We815wRY++oUiDPoT9Yema1XiHDwvu1aLK6 tynRguJP5fZDNd/vPplv0P0kGFfJxsp7D5Pw0frC7YWt5dt4L+0g1B648dkfqN0lsQtG9tLiSYVGD dpyWyjg93Ul2ael02xjst6S1SXS4N/Vkc/mdAgX3huO6EvG/h6V/bhDTfiNA2EryVByA+sc+nSjTy QbEwZf7w==; Received: from [82.138.51.4] (port=50434 helo=buildpc) by direct.host-care.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hyBZc-00023p-6B; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 04:57:32 -0400 From: "Valery Smyslov" To: Cc: "'Xialiang \(Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept\)'" References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> In-Reply-To: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 11:57:23 +0300 Message-ID: <000c01d55347$769753f0$63c5fbd0$@smyslov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQK1kisCvDc1RSBNtbNFnLiTKznvr6U7WEzA Content-Language: ru X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - direct.host-care.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - smyslov.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: direct.host-care.com: authenticated_id: valery@smyslov.net X-Authenticated-Sender: direct.host-care.com: valery@smyslov.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:57:42 -0000 Hi, there was some discussion around the new text in the draft, but nobody objected to the addition of this text. So the chairs believe that there is a rough consensus in the WG and the draft is ready for IESG evaluation. Regards. Frank & Valery. > Hi, > > this message starts a short WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-19 to confirm > the WG consensus regarding the latest addition of a new use case to the draft. > The WGLS will last one week and will end on Tuesday, 13 August. > > Regards, > Frank & Valery. 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 09:06:14 -0000 --0000000000005c27ab0590242f66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peace, On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 10:14 AM wrote: > Hi Tiru, > > OK. I prepared a proposal at: > https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pull/11/files > I completely agree with the addition of this. -- T=C3=B6ma > --0000000000005c27ab0590242f66 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peace,

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 10:14 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wro= te:
Hi Tiru,

OK. I prepared a proposal at: https= ://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pull/11/files

I completely agree wi= th the addition of this.

--
T=C3=B6ma
--0000000000005c27ab0590242f66-- From nobody Thu Aug 15 05:25:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3144912004A for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id otdYbzQL1HLo for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F77B120043 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id u15so2080307ljl.3 for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vGwEzpoZ1NZp2PTw0lf5cUcxNJeOQATgiPxI1Z3lKEo=; b=CN2dJ8x5m0M4bi5pa2RDAIVMktUYsLnWCwMKud+L45IeSWeaIqKHzM/hOYghrOiQSi Y+kwRAoJuXdm0Xw79t1qG1vkTCfGrAp/yGd9+W5GQyf/HHtq3f8m1zY9+DgysWgMuhkM 5u4/oeNGb2sVlgux4kHu5+09UaMO5QBo8JRXbmX2hKKAqSagx1gYS63mXedwrgJC4HJO uK+GlF17ta0U0jvjOdT8mZeN1cGwoz2rsrhM8pqZximo7Vet/5TZtIqvlHBhKZGK0wWA r9d2BfW6q3KjieRD6JHV93BbU0upX5naIMsACLm//RwmlTHBOVFQPpMFPPl4+RAC3+VN FKBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vGwEzpoZ1NZp2PTw0lf5cUcxNJeOQATgiPxI1Z3lKEo=; b=gqL+tFl2xUttzgLss4WhhtPiZQoQC9TVEyr4TFNWER37MmRK9xsBg7hs9Qb2PPrjyR VbqNcm+8zBzvcufClEXXwex593p+hjk6bbIIr7d/ZVArc+NaDRQzPZ6KutwUvkam4aF6 Bq+wUxprpiXR1FlYoNLeQRP9GxfVBHiLJj6k3KFl3xLS9/aAFV91zI9dQhvT91hZfb4z ueheO7Upzefqm5LHGjTp6If1Q6AGxb2i3WMBQNAnoXQam0PWLCicKqZe7Bx3suHd5WR2 TbrgSjDq7J7fTbTq53TzaE567sgZy15MZMoqASp6svxszR+t5YZbUGZiOpOXhuwihiOG jN+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXtSk4KW4caXIm5jXN5XLIFjRxQtDT2IxX4cSnA8xfUY/1/XX+5 5Bm3YrqOnnJ/w22EAxzyZ/XG1VD5Xuf1uDuKjbQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzXIK5AyqWjXRhk1IrqJaMkPAnzkgDRMGha6RHoRhCyJtS4rdV5c2xL6O2/XfrPEVCyGehpcwsPVjWFdzQ13KQ= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8559:: with SMTP id u25mr2532051ljj.224.1565871917996; Thu, 15 Aug 2019 05:25:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00b001d54c1f$d57799e0$8066cda0$@smyslov.net> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDB17@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDBC8@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC3B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDC6C@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDDC9@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDE6B@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FDF39@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312FF7C4@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: H Y Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 21:25:04 +0900 Message-ID: To: Mohamed Boucadair , "dots@ietf.org" Cc: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 12:25:23 -0000 Hi, > OK. I prepared a proposal at: https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pu= ll/11/files Thank you for the proposal. I agree with it too. Thanks, Yuhei 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=888=E6=97=A5(=E6=9C=A8) 16:14 : > > Hi Tiru, > > OK. I prepared a proposal at: https://github.com/dotswg/dots-use-cases/pu= ll/11/files > > Cheers, > Med > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.c= om] > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 7 ao=C3=BBt 2019 08:35 > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org > > Cc : Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > Objet : RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 7:06 PM > > > To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > ; Valery Smyslov > > > ; dots@ietf.org > > > Cc: Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Dots] WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > links or > > > open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content= is > > > safe. > > > > > > Re-, > > > > > > Please see inline. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Med > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > De : Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy > > > > [mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com] > > > > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi 6 ao=C3=BBt 2019 15:08 > > > > =C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Valery Smyslov; dots@ietf.org C= c : > > > > Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) Objet : RE: [Dots] > > > > WGLC for draft-dots-use-cases-19 > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > [Med] The recursive case is not covered in the current text. = I > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > think we > > > > > > > need to elaborate on this further. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why recursive case should be excluded in the > > > > > > current text ? > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Because the use-case draft does not cover this: It only cov= ers > > > > > the > > > > case > > > > > of an orchestrator talking to local routers. > > > > > > > > My question is why shouldn't the use case draft cover this ? > > > > > > [Med] Isn't this captured with the following? > > > > > > o DDoS Mitigation System (DMS): A system that performs DDoS > > > mitigation. The DDoS Mitigation System may be composed by a > > > cluster of hardware and/or software resources, but could also > > > involve an orchestrator that may take decisions such as > > > outsourcing partial or more of the mitigation to another DDoS > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > ^^ > > > Mitigation System. > > > > > > And > > > > > > Another typical scenario for this use case is the relation between > > > DDoS Mitigation Service Providers forming an overlay of DMS. When= a > > > DDoS Mitigation Service Provider mitigating a DDoS attack reaches = it > > > resources capacities, it may choose to delegate the DDoS Mitigatio= n > > to > > > another DDoS Mitigation Service Provider. > > > > I missed above text, Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However If orchestrator is enforcing > > > > > > > > filtering rules on routers, it should create the black-list > > > > > > > > rules based on the non-spoofed attacker IP address and not = use > > > > > > > > the spoofed victim IP addresses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Med] Agree. Whether the check is done at the orchestrator or= by > > > > > > > the > > > > > > DMS, > > > > > > > is not a new concern. The DMS has to proceed with these check= s, > > > > anyway. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > fail to see what is NEW and SPECIFIC to the offload scenario. > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the check has to be done by orchestrator when > > > > > > enforcing black-list rules not to penalize the spoofed victim I= P > > > > > > addresses and should be discussed in the new use case. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] This requirement has to be followed by the DMS, anyway. Thi= s > > > > > is > > > > not a > > > > > new issue, Tiru. > > > > > > > > No, sending attack information to the DOTS server is not covered in > > > > any of the WG documents. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] The text is about "additional hints". This is all what DOTS is > > about :-) > > > > Yes, but the NEW text is discussing conveying attack information for th= e > > first time and it needs more details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see any other use case in > > > > > > the specification discussing offload scenario with propagating = the > > > > > > attack information and I recommend updating the text discussing > > > > > > the above scenarios. > > > > > > > > > > [Med] We don't have a similar text for the DMS case because > > > > > mitigation > > > > is > > > > > out of scope. I'm expecting to follow the some rationale for the > > > > offload. > > > > > > > > If mitigation is out of scope, remove the following line: > > > > Then the orchestrator can take further actions like requesting > > > > forwarding nodes such as routers to filter the traffic. > > > > > > [Med] This sentence is similar to saying the "DMS starts mitigation" = but > > with > > > more contextualized information for a network orchestrator. The sente= nce > > > uses "can", "like" which is fine for illustration purposes. As a read= er, > > I prefer > > > to leave it. > > > > I suggest to add more details discussed in the thread. Anyways, will le= ave > > it to you and the authors to decide, and I am not objecting to progress= ing > > the draft > > without the proposed update. > > > > Cheers, > > -Tiru > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots --=20 ---------------------------------- Yuuhei HAYASHI 08065300884 yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com iehuuy_0220@docomo.ne.jp ---------------------------------- From nobody Tue Aug 20 03:16:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7FC1200C3 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2019 03:16:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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boundary="_000_DM5PR16MB17050DE91DD44CD305D41789EAAB0DM5PR16MB1705namp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Comments for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 10:16:41 -0000 --_000_DM5PR16MB17050DE91DD44CD305D41789EAAB0DM5PR16MB1705namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgV2VpLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBkZXRhaWxlZCByZXZpZXcuIFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5s aW5lIFtUUl0NCg0KRnJvbTogRG90cyA8ZG90cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBPbiBCZWhhbGYg T2YgUGFud2VpIChXaWxsaWFtKQ0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEF1Z3VzdCAxNSwgMjAxOSAxMjo0 NCBQTQ0KVG86IGRyYWZ0LXJlZGR5LWRvdHMtdGVsZW1ldHJ5QGlldGYub3JnDQpDYzogZG90cyA8 ZG90c0BpZXRmLm9yZz47IE1laUxpbmcgQ2hlbiA8Y2hlbm1laWxpbmdAY2hpbmFtb2JpbGUuY29t Pg0KU3ViamVjdDogW0RvdHNdIENvbW1lbnRzIGZvciBkcmFmdC1yZWRkeS1kb3RzLXRlbGVtZXRy eQ0KDQoNCkNBVVRJT046IEV4dGVybmFsIGVtYWlsLiBEbyBub3QgY2xpY2sgbGlua3Mgb3Igb3Bl biBhdHRhY2htZW50cyB1bmxlc3MgeW91IHJlY29nbml6ZSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBrbm93IHRo ZSBjb250ZW50IGlzIHNhZmUuDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpI 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F6D120832; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 04:11:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rDBjGa0Xz7Ac; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 04:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E69A120026; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 04:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.1]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee25d5e7866d84-60150; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 19:11:38 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee25d5e7866d84-60150 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc-PC (unknown[10.2.51.54]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee15d5e7866bce-81a52; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 19:11:38 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee15d5e7866bce-81a52 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 19:11:38 +0800 From: "Meiling Chen" To: internet-drafts Cc: dots References: <156647101470.14906.11032347476240749997.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019082219113715699120@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart333573256040_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] New Version Notification for draft-chen-dots-attack-informations-03.txt X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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H= i all,

This = version has made big changes, mainly:
(1) DDoS = attacks are classified by Bandwidth consuming attack and Host resource consuming attack= ;
(2) Add parameters to mitigati= on request and response for Bandwi= dth consuming attack and Ho= st resource consuming attack;
(3= ) Mitigation request parameters for Bandwidth consuming attack include 8:&= nbsp;
  • Attack_Target_IP,
  • Alarm_Begi= n_time,
  • Direction, 
    • Target_Attack_Type,
  • Target_Attack_Type_Threshold,
  • Atta= ck_Target_IP_Peak,
  • Attack_Source_IP_Num= , 
  • Attack_Bandwidth; 
Mitigation response parameters include 8&n= bsp;:  
  • Attack_Target_IP,
  • Alarm_End_time,
  • Target_Atta= ck_Type,
  • Total_Traffic,
    • Residual_Traffic,
  • = Attack_Traffic, 
  • Attack_Target_IP_Peak,
  • Atta= ck_Source_IP_Num
(4) Mitiga= tion request parameters for Host resource consuming attack include 5:
  • Attack_Target_Packe= t_Rate,
  • Alarm_Begin_Time,
  • Direction,
    • <= li>Target_Attack_Type;
&n= bsp;Mitigation Response parameters 5:
  • Attack_Target_IP,
  • Alarm_End_time,
  • Target_Attack_Type,  
  • Attack_Source_IP,
  • Attack_Target_Packet_Rate
(5)When Host Res= ource consuming DDoS attack occurs we recommend using Attack_Target_Packet_Rate to detect attack.

Commen= ts and questions are more than welcome.

Best Regards,
Meiling Chen 
Date= : 2019-08-22 18:50
To: Li Su; chenmeiling; Jin P= eng; Meiling Chen
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-chen-dots= -attack-informations-03.txt
 
=0AA new version of I-D, draft-chen-dots-attack-informations-03.txt
=0A=
has been successfully submitted by Meiling Chen and posted to the=0A
IETF repository.
=0A
 
=0A
Name: draft-c= hen-dots-attack-informations
=0A
Revision: 03
=0A
Title:= DOTS client carry ddos attack informations in signal channel
=0ADocument date: 2019-08-22
=0A
Group: Individual Submission=0A
Pages: 20
=0A
URL:      =       https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-= chen-dots-attack-informations-03.txt
=0A
Status:   = ;      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-che= n-dots-attack-informations/
=0A
Htmlized:    =    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-dots-attack-informatio= ns-03
=0A
Htmlized:       https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-dots-attack-informations
=0A<= div>Diff:           http= s://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-dots-attack-informations-03=0A
 
=0A
Abstract:
=0A
   This doc= ument describes DDoS attack information which can be obtained
=0A   by DOTS client when the enterprise suspects it is under DDoS= attack,
=0A
   these informations will be send from DO= TS client to DOTS server in
=0A
   mitigation request u= sing Signal channel or Data channel.
=0A
 
=0A
&nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;      
=0A
 
=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from t= he time of submission
=0A
until the htmlized version and diff are= available at tools.ietf.org.
=0A
 
=0A
The IETF Se= cretariat
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
------=_001_NextPart333573256040_=------ From nobody Thu Aug 22 05:43:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C5D12001B; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 05:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6dN_AC48fRC; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 259C2120841; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0E038D87EE7507B1A9B3; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:43:43 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:43:42 +0100 Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:43:42 +0100 Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 13:43:41 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.120]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 20:43:38 +0800 From: "Panwei (William)" To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" CC: dots , "draft-reddy-dots-telemetry@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry Thread-Index: AdVY3j2uxxImJy8tR8GGGvdCYIuylQ== Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:43:37 +0000 Message-ID: <30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE9CDD0@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.37.117] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE9CDD0nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] Comments for draft-reddy-dots-telemetry X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 12:43:49 -0000 --_000_30E95A901DB42F44BA42D69DB20DFA6A6DE9CDD0nkgeml513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgVGlydSwNCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMgJiBUaGFua3MhDQrmvZjk vJ8gV2VpIFBhbg0K5Y2O5Li65oqA5pyv5pyJ6ZmQ5YWs5Y+4IEh1YXdlaSBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMg Q28uLCBMdGQuDQoNCkZyb206IERvdHMgW21haWx0bzpkb3RzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9u IEJlaGFsZiBPZiBLb25kYSwgVGlydW1hbGVzd2FyIFJlZGR5DQpTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBBdWd1 c3QgMjAsIDIwMTkgNjoxNSBQTQ0KVG86IFBhbndlaSAoV2lsbGlhbSkgPHdpbGxpYW0ucGFud2Vp QGh1YXdlaS5jb20+OyBkcmFmdC1yZWRkeS1kb3RzLXRlbGVtZXRyeUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KQ2M6IGRv dHMgPGRvdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+OyBNZWlMaW5nIENoZW4gPGNoZW5tZWlsaW5nQGNoaW5hbW9iaWxl LmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbRG90c10gQ29tbWVudHMgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXJlZGR5LWRvdHMt dGVsZW1ldHJ5DQoNCkhpIFdlaSwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgZGV0YWlsZWQgcmV2aWV3LiBQ 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aGVlcnMsPG86cD48L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9 Im1hcmdpbi10b3A6LjA1aW4iPjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LWZhbWlseTpDb25zb2xhcyI+LVRp cnU8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFy Z2luLXRvcDouMDVpbiI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiZxdW90O0dhZHVnaSZxdW90 OyxzYW5zLXNlcmlmO2NvbG9yOmJsYWNrIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8 L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_DM5PR16MB17051330D8429A080D61B2A5EAA40DM5PR16MB1705namp_-- From nobody Sun Aug 25 23:01:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68529120105 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id meCrEafMEGTZ for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF05F1200A4 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id DEA5193E2AF7D72F1ACE for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 07:01:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM423-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.40) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 07:00:59 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.72]) by dggemm423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:00:17 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" To: "dots@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control: Thread-Index: AdVb0qJ3azE8d5a6Q9qrq0A2Y5HsJw== Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 06:00:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.159.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F13E88C134dggemm511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Dots] WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 06:01:08 -0000 --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F13E88C134dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Based on the WG discussion, and the Chairs' overall opinion, this begins a = three week working group last call for: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ Please reply to this email thread with an indication that you have read the= document, any comments you may have, and your assessment of whether or not= it is ready to proceed to publication. If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please re= spond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any releva= nt undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progr= ess without answers from all the authors and contributors. Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document. If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly= respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed i= n conformance with IETF rules. DEADLINE: Please reply by Monday 16 September 2019. B.R. Valery and Frank --_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F13E88C134dggemm511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

Based on the WG discussion, and= the Chairs’ overall opinion, this begins a three week working group last cal= l for:

 

https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/

 

Please reply to this email thre= ad with an indication that you have read the document, any comments you may= have, and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publ= ication. 

 

If y= ou are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please respon= d to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant u= ndisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progress without answers from all the authors and= contributors.<= /o:p>

Curr= ently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

&nbs= p;=

If y= ou are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly res= pond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in co= nformance with IETF rules.

 

 

DEADLINE: Please reply by Monda= y 16 September 2019. 

 

B.R.

Valery and Frank

--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F13E88C134dggemm511mbxchi_-- From nobody Sun Aug 25 23:08:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8C01200A4 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:08:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nttv6.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7HtHelPH5g9K for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guri.nttv6.jp (guri.nttv6.jp [115.69.228.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F35E120104 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z.nttv6.jp (z.nttv6.jp [192.168.8.15]) by guri.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 721EB25F6C4; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 15:08:44 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nttv6.jp; s=20180820; t=1566799724; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=/0J1q2PEBOMKxg+/y41Efg2QYC4x3qO70jH3PDSERFk=; b=sG3/Vu5SglgdpdVxB4BRg+XGF6s9eOdYPfdYaefiSc5j6koLiKlYpF7sMDDnKo6tzDVC4z TvdZR1JjEPtirfNLi558G6czwB9RC5ONQjaGIHU01qFpSDGU5RulicXZwncgYD0Ajd2Qu1 mofcBwk93unQKqspJqrFPHp3ZYRVw+o= Received: from macbook-pro-17.lv4.nttv6.jp (fujiko.nttv6.jp [IPv6:2402:c800:ff06:136::141]) by z.nttv6.jp (NTTv6MTA) with ESMTP id 5099F759042; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 15:08:44 +0900 (JST) To: "Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)" , "dots@ietf.org" References: From: kaname nishizuka Message-ID: <403d1338-81d4-4769-5966-fe302ba1c481@nttv6.jp> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 15:08:50 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------05AB15D38F57BF7D915ABEB4" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 06:08:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------05AB15D38F57BF7D915ABEB4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frank, I'm not aware of any IPR related to the draft. regards, Kaname Nishizuka On 2019/08/26 15:00, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote: > > Hi all, > > Based on the WG discussion, and the Chairs’ overall opinion, this begins a three week working group last call for: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ > > Please reply to this email thread with an indication that you have read the document, any comments you may have, and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication. > > If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progress without answers from all the authors and contributors. > > Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document. > > If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > DEADLINE: Please reply by Monday 16 September 2019. > > B.R. > > Valery and Frank > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots --------------05AB15D38F57BF7D915ABEB4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frank,

I'm not aware of any IPR related to the draft.

regards,
Kaname Nishizuka

On 2019/08/26 15:00, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote:

Hi all,

Based on the WG discussion, and the Chairs’ overall opinion, this begins a three week working group last call for:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/

 

Please reply to this email thread with an indication that you have read the document, any comments you may have, and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication. 

 

If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progress without answers from all the authors and contributors.

Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document.

 

If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

 

 

DEADLINE: Please reply by Monday 16 September 2019. 

 

B.R.

Valery and Frank


_______________________________________________
Dots mailing list
Dots@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots

--------------05AB15D38F57BF7D915ABEB4-- From nobody Sun Aug 25 23:23:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dots@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D3E120105 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:23:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mcafee.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a3kRLH_oaJWz for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-140.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-140.mimecast.com [63.128.21.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 457791200FB for ; 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boundary="_000_BN6PR16MB17001C8C953BE01D38093FF0EAA10BN6PR16MB1700namp_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." 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<6cbd69ce-adb6-9100-518e-1f95f5c04fc9@lepidum.co.jp> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:59:12 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dots] WGLC for draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control: X-BeenThere: dots@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of DDoS Open Threat Signaling \(DOTS\) technology and directions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:59:18 -0000 Hi Frank, I'm not aware of any IPR related to the draft. Best Regards, Takahiko Nagata On 2019/08/26 15:00, Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept) wrote: > Hi all, > Based on the WG discussion, and the Chairs' overall opinion, this begins a three week working group last call for: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control/ > > Please reply to this email thread with an indication that you have read the document, any comments you may have, and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication. > > If you are listed as an author or a contributor of this document, please respond to this email and indicate whether or not you are aware of any relevant undisclosed IPR, copying the BESS mailing list. The document won't progress without answers from all the authors and contributors. > Currently, there are no IPR disclosures against this document. > > If you are not listed as an author or a contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > DEADLINE: Please reply by Monday 16 September 2019. > > B.R. > Valery and Frank > > > _______________________________________________ > Dots mailing list > Dots@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots >