From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Mon Jun 3 14:30:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39CBF11E80FC for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jsm0u9EO7IRF for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCE611E80A5 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF216BE49 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:23:11 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2W1lcSq4eVms for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:23:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.87.48.12] (unknown [86.41.53.2]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1BBC8BE39 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:23:11 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51AD093E.3050701@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:23:10 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoFing in Berlin X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 21:30:00 -0000 Hi all, If this effort is to turn into a BoF in Berlin, then there are some things to do. First, interested folks should take a read of RFC 5434. [1] Second, I'll need to fill in the template at [2] for the IESG/IAB call where we decide whether to approve the BoF or not. That call is on June 20. The main question I have for now is whether or not the goal is to form a WG immediately after Berlin or not. If it is, then the BoF needs significantly better preparation (not more, but better:-). So time for that is short, though I do think this topic is relatively straightforward and we hopefully have some experienced IETFers involved so we may be ok. Nonetheless, even the best plans can be messed up by having a badly organised BoF, so let's not do that:-) Third, if there are folks who're willing to volunteer to chair the proposed BoF please send me a mail before Friday June 7th. Fourth - having a wg or BoF session name that includes a "-" character is a bad plan as it confuses some tools. So please someone suggest a better acronym. (Something catchy is always good btw and dtls-iot is not catchy:-) And lastly, since discussing the proposed charter on this list is what we're here for, I'll start a 2nd thread on that with Zach's latest text as a starter. Regards, Stephen. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5434 [2] https://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Mon Jun 3 14:30:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD5111E80FC for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:30:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.930, BAYES_20=-0.74, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJf881P9P2Gt for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E38921E809F for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CCB5BE54 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:23:27 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 50DmJR9-YEaU for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:23:22 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.87.48.12] (unknown [86.41.53.2]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0AB74BE39 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:23:22 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:23:21 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 21:30:12 -0000 Hi all, The text below is from [1]. Is it perfect? What'd you change? Please discuss this on the list between now and the proposed Berlin meeting. Some I-Ds on relevant topics being published before June 20 would also be useful in deciding whether or not to approve the BoF slot, but so is charter discussion. Thanks, Stephen. [1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gw00WXRgjJJQJMv9seVpuXuLtIDYKhHE-7pX4eDo3g8/edit?pli=1# DTLS for IoT Group The purpose of this document is to organize interest in a group to standardize a set of optimizations to DTLS for use with constrained devices and networks. Possible goals for this activity could be: A minimal configuration profile of DTLS for IoT Multicast record layer support for DTLS Implementation and deployment guidance (-> LWIG) Optimization of the DTLS handshake and record layer (-> TLS WG after profiling) Use of DTLS for security bootstrapping and key management (-> own activity) Action Points Write a draft of DTLS implementation and deployment guidance to LWIG. [Hannes, Sandeep] Write a straw-man draft (maybe updating the current one) on multicast record-layer support for DTLS [Sye Loong] Write a straw-man draft on the TLS over CoAP handshake and profiling [Sye Loong] Submit the BOF request for Berlin [Sye Loong, Zach] Mailing List https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot Existing work http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-01.txt Draft Charter – DTLS for the Internet of Things (DIoT?) There is an increased use of wireless control networks in city infrastructure, environmental monitoring, industrial automation, and building management systems. These wireless control networks comprise many electronic devices, sensors and actuators that are connected to each other, and in most cases Internet connected, thus creating a trend towards Internet of Things (IoT). The CoRE working group has defined a framework for resource-oriented applications intended to run on Constrained Node Networks (CNN) (see I-D-ietf-lwig-terminology). A CNN connects devices which are constrained by power, limited amount of code size and memory in a network with severe limits on throughput. The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) can be used to manipulate resources on a device in a CNN. Group communication is an important feature in CNNs as it can be effectively used to convey messages to a group of devices without requiring the sender to perform multiple time- and energy-consuming unicast transmissions, one for each group member. For example, in a building control management system, Heating, Ventilation and Air-Conditioning (HVAC) and lighting devices can be grouped according to the layout of the building, and control commands can be issued to a group of devices. Unsecured group communication for CNNs is enabled by using CoAP on top of IP-multicast. However, it must be secured as it is vulnerable to the usual attacks (eavesdropping, tampering, message forgery, replay, etc). Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) has been chosen by CoRE to protect CoAP unicast communications, and it would be beneficial if the same security protocol, i.e., DTLS can be used to protect CoAP group communication as well. The current design of DTLS leads to fragmentation of DTLS handshake messages over the wireless link, in particular when Raw Public-key and Certificate modes are used. From the various implementation experiences reported in the LWIG working group, the complexity of re-transmission and re-ordering of DTLS handshake messages in CNNs has resulted in a significantly increased code size and RAM. Additional reliability mechanisms for transporting DTLS handshake messages are required as they will ensure that handling of re-ordered messages needs to be done in a single place in the stack only. This WG combines expertise from both the IETF Application and Security areas in order to work out the appropriate security solutions for the Internet of Things. The scope of this WG is to define the following: Document the problems with the DTLS handshake for IoT, and define a suitable profile of DTLS for an IoT architecture and use case that minimizes the complexity and overhead of DTLS for constrained devices. The use of DTLS Record Layer in combination with the (derived) multicast key to protect the CoAP group communication without source authentication. The DTLS Record Layer should not be modified/altered. Goals and Milestones Oct 2013 WG document for DTLS for IoT profile Nov 2013 WG document for secure multicast group communication in CNNs Feb 2014 DTLS for IoT profile specification submitted to the IESG Mar 2014 Secure Multicast group communication specification submitted to the IESG Initial brainstorming A minimal configuration profile of DTLS [Klaus: Implementations in a deployment need to agree on cipher suite, etc. for interop. Maybe it’s possible to define minimal profiles for a number of typical scenarios?] [Sandeep: when selecting the minimal profiles for different typical scenarios it would be nice to select a common underlying cipher (like AES) to reduce implementation costs, so using AES-CMAC for authentication and AES-CCM for additional confidentiality Zach: Common Ciphers are already defined in the CoAP specification. ] What defines a “profile”? Maybe what we really need from a profile is to explain the (D)TLS features actually needed for a set of IoT applications that we commonly come across. The purpose of this profile would be to limit the number of options and flexibility in especially the (D)TLS handshake. What are the features actually needed for use with CoAP? Applicability Communication model Threat model Security requirements Class of devices ... Cipher suites Extensions Signature Algorithms Server Name Indication Maximum Fragment Length Supported Elliptic Curves Supported Point Formats Application Layer Protocol Heartbeat Cached Info Session Resumption ... Timer values ... [Note RS: it would be good to define technical requirements first here. -security services (authenticated key agreement, authenticated key transport, entity authentication, secured data transport (unicast, multicast, broadcast; source authentication, etc.), replay protection, timeliness, etc. Authorization (identity-based, role based), privacy, etc. -communication services: in-order delivery, fragmentation/defragmentation support, etc. -support for initial provisioning, configuration -scalability, adaptability towards change of role/trust models, device replacement, merging and partitioning of networks, flexible authorization policy management, etc. - how to deal with typical network aspects, including sleepy nodes, crappy links, no online availability trusted third party -how to make sure human involvement is virtually absent -support for existing/legacy implementation pieces (e.g., AES in hardware; RNG, etc., device id) -support for memory-starved devices, with harldy any buffering capability, etc. Zach: Well, we have already been through the main requirements when we chose DTLS as the solution for CoAP in general. Much of this is also captured in the main CoAP ID. However for the purpose of optimizing DTLS, I agree we should capture the security requirements in relation to what we want to achieve. The goal here however is NOT to reconsider CoAP’s choice of security protocol, model, cipher suites etc. The goal here is to make the choice we already made more efficient, and to support multicast. ] Implementation and deployment guidance Recommendations on handshake fragmentation to minimize retransmissions timer values to avoid spurious retransmissions when to perform handshake (on device startup, on demand, ...) when to close connections (when idle, …) DTLS version negotiation epochs >= 2 session resumption Dealing with resource exhaustion (eviction strategy for connections, ...) Implementation techniques for implementing CoAP over DTLS ... [Zach: This should be done in LWIG. Someone could already start writing this document up there?] Optimization of the DTLS handshake and record layer DTLS is written as a diff to TLS. The diff changes the transport to an unreliable datagram-based transport, adds reliability to the handshake layer and makes a few modifications to the record layer to cater for message reordering, etc. DTLS was clearly not designed with constrained devices and lossy networks in mind. It should be possible to investigate alternate reliability mechanisms and message formats that are more suitable for constrained environments but do not touch TLS itself. This means basically reinventing the “D” in “DTLS”, to a greater or smaller extent. Ideas floating around: Transport the handshake messages in CoAP requests and responses, using draft-ietf-core-block to transport messages that do not fit in a single datagram. Transport the DTLS records in CoAP messages. For experimentation, I have added a tiny (5 bits) fragmentation indication to the CoAP messaging layer. The result can be used to transport the DTLS messages of a handshake flight in the same simple lock-step fashion as we already do in CoAP, instead of transmitting all messages at once and retransmitting all fragment when a single fragment is lost. Retransmit all fragments when a single fragment is lost and focus on reducing the number of fragments to be sent. Retransmitting all fragments actually performs better(!) than sending one acknowledgement per fragment in lossy environments in terms of transmission count. [Note RS: it is not a priori clear that DTLS fits the bill here: first discuss requirements, instead of reverse engineering those from dreamt up solution that may be incomplete at best (I am not saying it is, but it could Zach: This group is not about re-thinking security from scratch. We already chose (D)TLS as our security binding for CoAP. Based on experience using it so far, there is some obvious optimization that can be done, as well as an important feature missing. ] Multicast record layer support for DTLS The current DTLS record layer header can be used to support/protect a single sender-multiple receivers group communication scenario. The sequence number field in the record layer header is probably sufficient to detect replay attacks. This is based on the assumption that authorized devices in a multicast group are trusted to behave correctly. The question then is whether this assumption is reasonable and do we need additional measures to prevent insider attacks? There was also a question whether source authentication is necessarily for multicast? In our opinion, this can be an optional feature in that for some important use cases, e.g., switching off all lights in the building, source authentication is required. Providing source authentication with a group key is not feasible, an alternative is to provide source authentication at the CoAP level using public-key cryptography? A single security protocol for IoT To strive for a single security protocol (e.g., the optimized “D”TLS) that can provide the required security functionalities such as network access, key management (distribution of unicast, multicast keys) and secure group communication such that we can optimize the use of memory on the constrained devices. Define the workflow in to perform network access using DTLS Define ways of distributing and renewing application, network, and multicast keys over the DTLS secure channel, i.e., using CoAP messages to encapsulate keying materials. Define the key derivation methods, re-using the security components in DTLS, e.g., PRF functions, AES. From zach@sensinode.com Tue Jun 4 09:06:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059A021F9636 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C3Ml3fmcgpn3 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CF121F9CE3 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 06:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.21.48.122] (guests.burlingtonhotel.ie [193.120.41.115] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r54DvafL022605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:57:39 +0300 From: Zach Shelby Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_660E20AB-8626-4941-912C-C915E8C3D951"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 14:57:35 +0100 References: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:06:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_660E20AB-8626-4941-912C-C915E8C3D951 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this = activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is = needed.=20 On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell = wrote: > Existing work >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt > = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-01.= txt Regards, Zach --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_660E20AB-8626-4941-912C-C915E8C3D951 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMjEyMDgwMDAwMDBaFw0x MzEyMDgyMzU5NTlaMIIBEDEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlT 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Cf+3Qt6idmB for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674CB21F9CB8 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.21.48.122] (guests.burlingtonhotel.ie [193.120.41.115] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r54E8cOT025881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 17:08:42 +0300 From: Zach Shelby Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_584B7C57-5C9E-4998-9143-16F30873C6C2"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 15:08:37 +0100 To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:22:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_584B7C57-5C9E-4998-9143-16F30873C6C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for IoT mailing list, great = to see all the interest. Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG = acronym!=20 "DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice = acronym, and should we improve the title as well?=20 Zach --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_584B7C57-5C9E-4998-9143-16F30873C6C2 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMjEyMDgwMDAwMDBaFw0x 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Z24gQ2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMwIQKgUR67IjnpVC8pNV8YxK QDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQBc0XK+bza5gmICm5R6+bXAgii+0h+YcBNL20eiviGa3twJnrME AOotoNoJ6KBH9zAnkq+65ymnjudPcXOuoEv72LSqcoVUr/S0VxbFVJ9mIQiy+WkK9vqPqv3QQ5q0 ppOZ0yA/8o+h14ixzDWTKP73oZmCREr4hBqQPsqgOJPFGBmLUZkiA59idiC7AC0ZoO74Fuvj0mgP kWQiLO27WG8ID2xB81v8+LMac+ZULeSxaXUuo/Oc6fmvILAvFVx58BcqfNbUBdKx5gj8QjnlVS7i 6DmMOxVLeCi+1nkxAIMEXpvXvXfIrJlwWAu+JEm6n2uJoTPLBAXcz2Vq00iweiiMAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_584B7C57-5C9E-4998-9143-16F30873C6C2-- From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Tue Jun 4 10:41:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E430711E80AD for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:41:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mt8XYFVtFEAs for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co9ehsobe002.messaging.microsoft.com [207.46.163.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFB821F9A7A for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail203-co9-R.bigfish.com (10.236.132.228) by CO9EHSOBE002.bigfish.com (10.236.130.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:28:52 +0000 Received: from mail203-co9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail203-co9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA30A6020E; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:28:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -29 X-BigFish: VPS-29(zz15d6O9251J542I14ffI217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1033IL17326ah8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1155h) Received: from mail203-co9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail203-co9 (MessageSwitch) id 1370363330943558_2150; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:28:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO9EHSMHS008.bigfish.com (unknown [10.236.132.248]) by mail203-co9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4E280004B; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:28:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CO9EHSMHS008.bigfish.com (10.236.130.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:28:50 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-016.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.100) by 011-DB3MMR1-003.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:29:25 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-016.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.100]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:29:25 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] BoFing in Berlin Thread-Index: AQHOYKF0PPUWy6BFjUiG6z34kDXgEpklvikw Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:27:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51AD093E.3050701@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <51AD093E.3050701@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Cc: Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoFing in Berlin X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:41:01 -0000 Hi Stephen, >> The main question I have for now is whether or not the goal is to form a= WG immediately after Berlin or not. If it is, then the BoF needs significa= ntly better preparation (not more, but better:-). So time for that is short= , though I do think this topic is relatively straightforward and we hopeful= ly have some experienced IETFers involved so we may be ok. Nonetheless, eve= n the best plans can be messed up by having a badly organised BoF, so let's= not do that:-) Yes, we would like to form a WG after Berlin, the original idea was to form= a WG with a clear focus and scope to address some of the immediate securit= y needs of IoT applications, i.e., DTLS profiling, and group communication = security. Cheers Sye Loong -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Stephen Farrell Sent: maandag 3 juni 2013 23:23 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoFing in Berlin Hi all, If this effort is to turn into a BoF in Berlin, then there are some things = to do. First, interested folks should take a read of RFC 5434. [1] Second, I'll need to fill in the template at [2] for the IESG/IAB call wher= e we decide whether to approve the BoF or not. That call is on June 20. The main question I have for now is whether or not the goal is to form a WG= immediately after Berlin or not. If it is, then the BoF needs significantl= y better preparation (not more, but better:-). So time for that is short, t= hough I do think this topic is relatively straightforward and we hopefully = have some experienced IETFers involved so we may be ok. Nonetheless, even t= he best plans can be messed up by having a badly organised BoF, so let's no= t do that:-) Third, if there are folks who're willing to volunteer to chair the proposed= BoF please send me a mail before Friday June 7th. Fourth - having a wg or BoF session name that includes a "-" character is a= bad plan as it confuses some tools. So please someone suggest a better acr= onym. (Something catchy is always good btw and dtls-iot is not catchy:-) And lastly, since discussing the proposed charter on this list is what we'r= e here for, I'll start a 2nd thread on that with Zach's latest text as a st= arter. Regards, Stephen. [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5434 [2] https://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Tue Jun 4 10:43:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE27221F9BCC for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:43:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fY51nxzMHKBV for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCF321F9750 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail108-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.245) by CO1EHSOBE019.bigfish.com (10.243.66.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:50 +0000 Received: from mail108-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail108-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8C0200293; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -7 X-BigFish: VPS-7(zz15d6O9251J217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzzz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1155h) Received: from mail108-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail108-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 13703636291187_1067; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS023.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.239]) by mail108-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F292A880098; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CO1EHSMHS023.bigfish.com (10.243.66.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:48 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-023.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.107) by 011-DB3MMR1-002.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:15 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-023.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([fe80::e485:97aa:9b41:86e3%11]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:38 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? Thread-Index: AQHOYT+ylhlvn0bCJ0aF5XDLnSXR+JklvovQ Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:33:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Cc: Zach Shelby Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:43:00 -0000 >>Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG a= cronym! >>"DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice ac= ronym, and should we improve the title as well? We have an idea, it's very catchy, but maybe it's too provoking! How about Integrating DTLS with IoT (iDiot) Cheers Sye Loong ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Tue Jun 4 10:45:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABCB21F9C86 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:45:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.349 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.349 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVaALPz2EGoS for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe002.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA96421F9E79 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail115-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.235) by CH1EHSOBE003.bigfish.com (10.43.70.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:40:16 +0000 Received: from mail115-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail115-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD20A36013E; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:40:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -31 X-BigFish: VPS-31(zz98dI15d6O9371I9251J542I1432I217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz8275ch1033IL17326ah1954cbh8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1155h) Received: from mail115-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail115-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1370364014858511_13068; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:40:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS007.bigfish.com (snatpool1.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.242]) by mail115-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC59300B72; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:40:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CH1EHSMHS007.bigfish.com (10.43.70.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:40:11 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-005.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.55]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:39:46 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGKhgVVfinMhE+wOtz3Va6RyZkllauAgAAsUwA= Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:39:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Cc: Zach Shelby Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:45:07 -0000 We are working on an I-D to discuss the challenges/problems implementers ex= perienced when deploying DTLS for IoT applications, especially the fragment= ation issues, and what kind of DTLS profiles can be defined for IoT applica= tion. Meanwhile, we are in the process of updating our Multicast security draft (= http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt). Cheers Sye Loong -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Zach Shelby Sent: dinsdag 4 juni 2013 15:58 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this activit= y, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is needed. On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell wr= ote: > Existing work > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-01= .txt Regards, Zach -- Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From teemu.savolainen@nokia.com Tue Jun 4 10:50:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D89721F9CA5 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:50:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gr-O6DJdZyTl for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw-da02.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.128.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D16721F99DE for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh102.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.23]) by mgw-da02.nokia.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r54GuEtC006029; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:56:17 +0300 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.21]) by vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:56:28 +0300 Received: from 008-AM1MPN1-051.mgdnok.nokia.com ([169.254.1.106]) by 008-AM1MMR1-012.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.21]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:57:26 +0000 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? Thread-Index: AQHOYT/C7jK4Nq+9ZUuQ3aWMEyeP/Jklxq28 Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:57:25 +0000 Message-ID: <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4@008-AM1MPN1-051.mgdnok.nokia.com> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4008AM1MPN1051mg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2013 16:56:28.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[74D72410:01CE6144] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:50:19 -0000 --_000_916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4008AM1MPN1051mg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dot Sent from Lumia 820 ________________________________ From: ext Zach Shelby Sent: =FD4.=FD6.=FD2013 19:24 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for IoT mailing list, great to= see all the interest. Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG acr= onym! "DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice acro= nym, and should we improve the title as well? Zach -- Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --_000_916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4008AM1MPN1051mg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
dot


Sent from Lumia 820
From: ext Zach Shelby
Sent: =FD4.= =FD6.=FD2013 19:24
To: dtls-iot@ietf.org
Subject: [Dtls= -iot] BoF/WG name?

We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for I= oT mailing list, great to see all the interest.

Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG acr= onym!

"DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a= nice acronym, and should we improve the title as well?

Zach

--
Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd.
http://www.sensinode.com @Sensinod= eIoT
Mobile: +358 40 7796297
Twitter: @zach_shelby
LinkedIn: http://fi.linked= in.com/in/zachshelby
6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net




 --_000_916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4008AM1MPN1051mg_-- From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Tue Jun 4 11:31:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7FE21F9BB5 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 11:31:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LWOkRcGfpold for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 11:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83DD21F8F2C for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7595CBE70; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:03:06 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nUpWe9J-PCGx; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:03:06 +0100 (IST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:7163:fa3d:2b97:36d5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:7163:fa3d:2b97:36d5]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2989DBE87; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:02:59 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51AE2BD3.30300@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:02:59 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Zach Shelby , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:31:57 -0000 On 06/04/2013 05:33 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: >>> Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG acronym! >>> "DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice acronym, and should we improve the title as well? > > We have an idea, it's very catchy, but maybe it's too provoking! How about > > Integrating DTLS with IoT (iDiot) Excellent! I bet you won't stick with it though:-) S. > > Cheers > Sye Loong > > ________________________________ > The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > From tho@koanlogic.com Tue Jun 4 14:37:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9023821F99C2 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UDLRd3npXBj8 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 14:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x233.google.com (mail-la0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DD221F9B82 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id fq12so509200lab.10 for ; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=cZVdStik5Lf4nWEfhLQapHTWGdjOZnDzMw+gxjuPQsk=; b=Fs7zzvDDR2KQ8PI6HgxrpqTEHVagSzcYNXaGsy+iS906bIwM8dfPxZZdIEalaCqEnI 9hi+j+aoreFuWYGF9ywSqmug4byX9/F+LLGlvc+wLPswQbPhl493vULynEDxam52HeBs M8hhbVdASmN1rmZQE9wWmqkLyOzxb56s+yLUI2g18jsQgyIoG34LXgmLP8Nck3UnbdiO EGCmTWwKw/qLoWl/iR9fyEmsHM5FhHrkjTTp52BEW3Au8S/zrsEUs2M7Bq4m1Cxw15e6 4orqabaK8MUmuap8ZYkvyINSI1L3EXaVDQ0Bkd2vL8wZov7PZ93u/lu2pKr0aOyTyms4 fapQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.167.33 with SMTP id zl1mr957093lbb.59.1370379456210; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.9.4 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [92.17.183.93] In-Reply-To: <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4@008-AM1MPN1-051.mgdnok.nokia.com> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4@008-AM1MPN1-051.mgdnok.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 21:57:36 +0100 Message-ID: From: Thomas Fossati To: teemu.savolainen@nokia.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlPfYVIrhyzMdJbDvL3wyCjstTjhN7S4frvH4DEFwBzY1yPyaA3AmmwtXUb4pSEVEQHdkt1 Cc: Zach Shelby , dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 21:37:33 -0000 +1000 On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:57 PM, wrote: > dot > > > Sent from Lumia 820 > ________________________________ > From: ext Zach Shelby > Sent: 4.6.2013 19:24 > To: dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? > > We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for IoT mailing list, great to > see all the interest. > > Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG > acronym! > > "DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice > acronym, and should we improve the title as well? > > Zach > > -- > Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > Twitter: @zach_shelby > LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > From Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com Thu Jun 6 18:56:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A68C21E805A for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2013 18:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.575 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.575 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.821, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NN2469ynrH3K for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2013 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21FA21E8064 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2013 18:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ATQ45118; Fri, 07 Jun 2013 01:56:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 7 Jun 2013 02:55:08 +0100 Received: from SZXEML419-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.158) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 7 Jun 2013 02:55:59 +0100 Received: from szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.152]) by szxeml419-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.158]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Fri, 7 Jun 2013 09:55:52 +0800 From: Bert Greevenbosch To: Zach Shelby , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGOAUZwJzXGKUe3oYMXKt/zQpklD46AgAE43WA= Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 01:55:51 +0000 Message-ID: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D779328@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.162.63] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... 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Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:48:31 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-022.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([fe80::1113:17d7:70dc:6faa%11]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:48:02 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: Bert Greevenbosch , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGKhgVVfinMhE+wOtz3Va6RyZkllauAgAPtWICABY0qcA== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:48:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D779328@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D779328@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 14:48:42 -0000 Hi Bert, Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP checks t= he revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially serious problem= in the future when devices are being replaced, compromised, and when resel= ling them? Cheers Sye Loong -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Bert Greevenbosch Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Hi all, I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ This is quite an early approach to tackling the revocation/authentication i= ssue in a scalable way. Section 4 discusses some requirements. The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it addresses an = issue that requires due attention. Best regards, Bert -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Zach Shelby Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B6=1B$B7n=1B(B4=1B$BF|=1B(B 21:58 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this activit= y, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is needed. On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell wr= ote: > Existing work > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-01= .txt Regards, Zach -- Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From paduffy@cisco.com Mon Jun 10 09:34:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF6B21F9473 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:34:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GQv0jXbYPcgp for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-4.cisco.com (ams-iport-4.cisco.com [144.254.224.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E024E21F8616 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:34:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3343; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1370882048; x=1372091648; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a4gls62/LwEW5RGu+3yHDISuPqfgmYN+uVTV4xmvga0=; b=duDMYR42Ybc31rlXmbcInQ3T5iu0ftQPANewvuSByzpAdPI8u+TkCi6L N0zKcOwo6J5ZCjegDTBvb2OHvKdGpPGCM9YaFd/hclII1Npg+bFQ6KpfH Pqx32mXMefs0GocKL5C/Ner3g/KkUC6aM6ldyk0+OwFAv6HlBqNxDbB1s 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsAFAKr+tVGQ/khN/2dsb2JhbABagwkwAYM8s12HcoEFFnSCIwEBAQQBAQEeATMZCg0ECxEEAQEBAQMFBhAIAgMCCQMCAQIBFR8JCBMGAgEBBYgEDIxxmzgBkTyBI4xjgQwtBoJDgRcDl0CBKYR2iyODETqBNQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,838,1363132800"; d="scan'208";a="14594569" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by ams-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Jun 2013 16:34:04 +0000 Received: from [10.61.203.51] ([10.61.203.51]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r5AGY39Q019875 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:34:03 GMT Message-ID: <51B5FFF9.9010908@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:34:01 +0200 From: Paul Duffy Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org References: <51AD0949.50806@cs.tcd.ie> <1754A17C-2BA4-44ED-8DAE-C76FC0A32CFE@sensinode.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D779328@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: paduffy@cisco.com List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:34:12 -0000 Zigbee IP does not mandate use of CRLs or OCSP for device certificates (in IEEE 802.1AR-speak ... the UDevID). Supporting these mechanisms for device certificates on constrained devices and networks, at mass scale, is highly problematic. Definitely an area for investigation. On 6/10/2013 4:48 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: > Hi Bert, > > Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP checks the revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially serious problem in the future when devices are being replaced, compromised, and when reselling them? > > Cheers > Sye Loong > > -----Original Message----- > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bert Greevenbosch > Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 > To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > > Hi all, > > I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ > > This is quite an early approach to tackling the revocation/authentication issue in a scalable way. Section 4 discusses some requirements. > > The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it addresses an issue that requires due attention. > > Best regards, > Bert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zach Shelby > Sent: 2013$BG/(B6$B7n(B4$BF|(B 21:58 > To: dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > > I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is needed. > > On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > >> Existing work >> >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-01.txt > Regards, > Zach > > -- > Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > Twitter: @zach_shelby > LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > ________________________________ > The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > . > From d.sturek@att.net Mon Jun 10 10:02:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D21821F994C for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:02:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KdeEuuBysuzj for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm22-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm22-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.178]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B1821F9953 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [98.139.44.98] by nm22.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2013 17:02:11 -0000 Received: from [67.195.15.62] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2013 17:02:11 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2013 17:02:11 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1370883731; bh=bwIOJbl+28HPMs6u0Txg0dQvNUaXjYY+e9vvakRq874=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=OSKUmdjSRwiEHeQjJixG5K6NtOIT6794DbxxZfDT6BFhqEyDTBYNCOdD3CdWu/FNQ10sJ7AVE7bIshtt5vlZGKh1eIuivHtOROuwSOLJr88SN2+xNC2fdLGvMULca4W93KrNVQygc1dGRwMyYvxwLYzA34z619n1gGVjMfNg4rQ= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 272061.78992.bm@smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: oNjXGZAVM1n.J8AZbiXxItFOQXtAFoi2pI3BwB_9GUnltHK p7v6MiFedAjGEiPph_b_ko9leso_dmsoO9697qCj9Tp7TEmt2tht3irBz3Uk vg3gcHzHubtcvbsN_E50iQicZnzFP0dU7heQRN4.cMg9j3OVPv8XHPGxwrwy V71G52A56kJ8DcT3rAEBFVJZkoH0gh4UUUEwG63BQgMONKReoc37uPoP0kp6 c3COdm3TeRaef78h9hE9UXGWXlAaeM.huYYsMQNQm4ZzjmWp2kqXehKCOe1b rzqn8U_z..21eItr3QT6fTSqoEzDyAekknH3aEHfXhz_XblsOIBtQZ0Kl76H zC1kWwslRznCep2IKQhej7LuVAbFNSM0TGqzYMx7wtebra9tmYNF3xl7B_uV GbnPWhHkQRUtQv_DiWq4epa2khueC5w7AARpM2YMMKQaSsJW4Dh67LNOqmVG DqenzpDwECjHF1kEjTjxgwJUpFARtp.ry4_y3f_cy6H1Nwxq3iy.97G0vXyY FkmCj.nGexjPrciHHrmxbtUfaUgKUu_i._0ha78WbW1FN6yjL3mPXpMbi91b xJph404comlLont1P6xMxsMtVtly_OiUN2IViS1b6Z0TFAjAuTutZs5cbq0a JYZSR1xBRvmVjwpFO7jLfKnofvHrzEHUlRpSI3ePCUQzqrbI9TfXs X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.1.1.117] (d.sturek@66.27.60.174 with login) by smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2013 10:02:11 -0700 PDT User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.4.130416 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:02:07 -0700 From: Don Sturek To: , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... In-Reply-To: <51B5FFF9.9010908@cisco.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:02:21 -0000 To add onto what Paul wrote...... ZigBee IP supports white lists/ black lists for network admission but we leave it up to the application as to how these lists are created/managed. As Paul noted, OCSP or CRL on device certificates is not a scalable solution (and in many cases not even desired......) To back up Paul's suggestion, it would be great to see this as an area of investigation in dlts-iot (or whatever the name becomes!) Don On 6/10/13 9:34 AM, "Paul Duffy" wrote: >Zigbee IP does not mandate use of CRLs or OCSP for device certificates >(in IEEE 802.1AR-speak ... the UDevID). Supporting these mechanisms for >device certificates on constrained devices and networks, at mass scale, >is highly problematic. > >Definitely an area for investigation. > > >On 6/10/2013 4:48 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: >> Hi Bert, >> >> Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP >>checks the revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially >>serious problem in the future when devices are being replaced, >>compromised, and when reselling them? >> >> Cheers >> Sye Loong >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of Bert Greevenbosch >> Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 >> To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> Hi all, >> >> I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ >> >> This is quite an early approach to tackling the >>revocation/authentication issue in a scalable way. Section 4 discusses >>some requirements. >> >> The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it addresses >>an issue that requires due attention. >> >> Best regards, >> Bert >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of Zach Shelby >> Sent: 2013$BG/(B6$B7n(B4$BF|(B 21:58 >> To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this >>activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is >>needed. >> >> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell >> wrote: >> >>> Existing work >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt >>> >>>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-0 >>>1.txt >> Regards, >> Zach >> >> -- >> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. >> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT >> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 >> Twitter: @zach_shelby >> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby >> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> >> ________________________________ >> The information contained in this message may be confidential and >>legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely >>for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction >>of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are >>not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail >>and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> . >> > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Tue Jun 11 11:44:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604F621F9943 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:44:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BX5-c39fL-qA for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (am1ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C0E21F9929 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail106-am1-R.bigfish.com (10.3.201.249) by AM1EHSOBE008.bigfish.com (10.3.204.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:44 +0000 Received: from mail106-am1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail106-am1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2657D180264; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -29 X-BigFish: VPS-29(zz98dI15d6O9371I1432I9251I217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz8275ch1033IL17326ah1954cbh8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h) Received: from mail106-am1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail106-am1 (MessageSwitch) id 1370976281575935_10184; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from AM1EHSMHS021.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.201.237]) by mail106-am1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801664007E; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by AM1EHSMHS021.bigfish.com (10.3.207.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:40 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-022.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.105) by 011-DB3MMR1-004.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:09 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-022.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([fe80::1113:17d7:70dc:6faa%11]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:09 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , "teemu.savolainen@nokia.com" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? Thread-Index: AQHOYT+ylhlvn0bCJ0aF5XDLnSXR+Jklxq2AgABDGwCACtqPCQ== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE443096962047362E4@008-AM1MPN1-051.mgdnok.nokia.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [86.92.83.29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:44:51 -0000 DOT is a good acronym! +1 ________________________________________ From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Th= omas Fossati [tho@koanlogic.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 10:57 PM To: teemu.savolainen@nokia.com Cc: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? +1000 On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:57 PM, wrote: > dot > > > Sent from Lumia 820 > ________________________________ > From: ext Zach Shelby > Sent: 4.6.2013 19:24 > To: dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? > > We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for IoT mailing list, great = to > see all the interest. > > Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG > acronym! > > "DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice > acronym, and should we improve the title as well? > > Zach > > -- > Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > Twitter: @zach_shelby > LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Tue Jun 11 11:58:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48A421F9967 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:58:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7rxXExJ4JR7C for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (mail-db9lp0248.outbound.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.248]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363EC21F9958 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 11:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail41-db9-R.bigfish.com (10.174.16.233) by DB9EHSOBE012.bigfish.com (10.174.14.75) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:58:23 +0000 Received: from mail41-db9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail41-db9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E54C00116; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:58:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -33 X-BigFish: VPS-33(zzbb2dI98dI15d6O9371I542I1432I9251I1447I14ffI217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz8275ch1033IL17326ah1954cbh8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h945hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h) Received: from mail41-db9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail41-db9 (MessageSwitch) id 1370977100378612_31372; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:58:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB9EHSMHS032.bigfish.com (unknown [10.174.16.242]) by mail41-db9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3EFC40046; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:58:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by DB9EHSMHS032.bigfish.com (10.174.14.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:58:20 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-015.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.99) by 011-DB3MMR1-008.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:59:47 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-015.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.99]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:57:49 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: Don Sturek , "paduffy@cisco.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGKhgVVfinMhE+wOtz3Va6RyZkllauAgAPtWICABY0qcIAAHzCAgAAH2YCAAa8M9w== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:57:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51B5FFF9.9010908@cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [86.92.83.29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:58:29 -0000 Thanks for the Clarification Don and Paul. Indeed, this is a good area of investigation. However, are we too early to = explore revocation issues in this BOF? I had the impression that this BOF/W= G aims to investigate the use of DTLS for IoT applications, or at least get= ting DTLS to run "comfortably" together with CoAP would be the primary goal= of this activity and revocation is rather independent of this, isn't it? BTW, Is there any plan in Zigbee-IP or Zigbee Alliance to investigate Revoc= ation issue? cheers Sye Loong ________________________________________ From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Do= n Sturek [d.sturek@att.net] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:02 PM To: paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... To add onto what Paul wrote...... ZigBee IP supports white lists/ black lists for network admission but we leave it up to the application as to how these lists are created/managed. As Paul noted, OCSP or CRL on device certificates is not a scalable solution (and in many cases not even desired......) To back up Paul's suggestion, it would be great to see this as an area of investigation in dlts-iot (or whatever the name becomes!) Don On 6/10/13 9:34 AM, "Paul Duffy" wrote: >Zigbee IP does not mandate use of CRLs or OCSP for device certificates >(in IEEE 802.1AR-speak ... the UDevID). Supporting these mechanisms for >device certificates on constrained devices and networks, at mass scale, >is highly problematic. > >Definitely an area for investigation. > > >On 6/10/2013 4:48 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: >> Hi Bert, >> >> Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP >>checks the revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially >>serious problem in the future when devices are being replaced, >>compromised, and when reselling them? >> >> Cheers >> Sye Loong >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of Bert Greevenbosch >> Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 >> To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> Hi all, >> >> I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ >> >> This is quite an early approach to tackling the >>revocation/authentication issue in a scalable way. Section 4 discusses >>some requirements. >> >> The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it addresses >>an issue that requires due attention. >> >> Best regards, >> Bert >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of Zach Shelby >> Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B6=1B$B7n=1B(B4=1B$BF|=1B(B 21:58 >> To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this >>activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is >>needed. >> >> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell >> wrote: >> >>> Existing work >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt >>> >>>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-0 >>>1.txt >> Regards, >> Zach >> >> -- >> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. >> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT >> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 >> Twitter: @zach_shelby >> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby >> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> >> ________________________________ >> The information contained in this message may be confidential and >>legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely >>for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction >>of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are >>not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail >>and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> . >> > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From zach@sensinode.com Tue Jun 11 12:08:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980DD21F9700 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:08:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zWncnyHSkRet for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042ED21F8749 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (80-186-8-21.elisa-mobile.fi [80.186.8.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r5BJ8QGW008034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:08:27 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0B0D5195-C8DE-421F-B780-404D64651EB7"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: <51AE2BD3.30300@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:08:26 +0300 Message-Id: <0A435EB9-7C87-45BE-B23D-0E0CE2FDD006@sensinode.com> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <51AE2BD3.30300@cs.tcd.ie> To: Stephen Farrell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:08:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0B0D5195-C8DE-421F-B780-404D64651EB7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Stephen Farrell = wrote: >> We have an idea, it's very catchy, but maybe it's too provoking! How = about >>=20 >> Integrating DTLS with IoT (iDiot) >=20 > Excellent! >=20 > I bet you won't stick with it though:-) I say let's take Stephen's challenge and go with iDiot. Catchy name, and = since we're not creating any new protocols there is almost no chance it = will end up in an RFC :-)=20 DOT is safe and boring, let's use that as a backup if people beat us up = in the BOF really badly about the name=85 Zach --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_0B0D5195-C8DE-421F-B780-404D64651EB7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hy6G+HCXLgkN for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A2521F8ECB for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (80-186-8-21.elisa-mobile.fi [80.186.8.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r5BJBISF008697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:11:20 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AFA975CD-2D32-4BB4-B141-3554847CA1FF"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:11:18 +0300 Message-Id: <3544BF09-C784-4B6B-8EF5-826FD2D65BA3@sensinode.com> References: <51B5FFF9.9010908@cisco.com>, To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: "paduffy@cisco.com" , Don Sturek , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:11:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AFA975CD-2D32-4BB4-B141-3554847CA1FF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Guys, I think the revocation issue is a good idea for possible future work in = this WG once we've completed our first charter on profiling and = multicast.=20 Regards, Zach On Jun 11, 2013, at 9:57 PM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" = wrote: > Thanks for the Clarification Don and Paul. >=20 > Indeed, this is a good area of investigation. However, are we too = early to explore revocation issues in this BOF? I had the impression = that this BOF/WG aims to investigate the use of DTLS for IoT = applications, or at least getting DTLS to run "comfortably" together = with CoAP would be the primary goal of this activity and revocation is = rather independent of this, isn't it? >=20 > BTW, Is there any plan in Zigbee-IP or Zigbee Alliance to investigate = Revocation issue? >=20 > cheers > Sye Loong > ________________________________________ > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf = of Don Sturek [d.sturek@att.net] > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:02 PM > To: paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >=20 > To add onto what Paul wrote...... >=20 > ZigBee IP supports white lists/ black lists for network admission but = we > leave it up to the application as to how these lists are = created/managed. > As Paul noted, OCSP or CRL on device certificates is not a scalable > solution (and in many cases not even desired......) >=20 > To back up Paul's suggestion, it would be great to see this as an area = of > investigation in dlts-iot (or whatever the name becomes!) >=20 > Don >=20 >=20 > On 6/10/13 9:34 AM, "Paul Duffy" wrote: >=20 >> Zigbee IP does not mandate use of CRLs or OCSP for device = certificates >> (in IEEE 802.1AR-speak ... the UDevID). Supporting these mechanisms = for >> device certificates on constrained devices and networks, at mass = scale, >> is highly problematic. >>=20 >> Definitely an area for investigation. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 6/10/2013 4:48 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: >>> Hi Bert, >>>=20 >>> Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP >>> checks the revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially >>> serious problem in the future when devices are being replaced, >>> compromised, and when reselling them? >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>> Sye Loong >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] = On >>> Behalf Of Bert Greevenbosch >>> Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 >>> To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ >>>=20 >>> This is quite an early approach to tackling the >>> revocation/authentication issue in a scalable way. Section 4 = discusses >>> some requirements. >>>=20 >>> The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it = addresses >>> an issue that requires due attention. >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Bert >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] = On >>> Behalf Of Zach Shelby >>> Sent: 2013=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 21:58 >>> To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >>>=20 >>> I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this >>> activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help = is >>> needed. >>>=20 >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Existing work >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt >>>>=20 >>>> = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment-0 >>>> 1.txt >>> Regards, >>> Zach >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. >>> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT >>> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 >>> Twitter: @zach_shelby >>> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby >>> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>>=20 >>> ________________________________ >>> The information contained in this message may be confidential and >>> legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended = solely >>> for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>> hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or = reproduction >>> of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you = are >>> not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return = e-mail >>> and destroy all copies of the original message. >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> . >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 > ________________________________ > The information contained in this message may be confidential and = legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely = for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are = hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction = of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are = not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail = and destroy all copies of the original message. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_AFA975CD-2D32-4BB4-B141-3554847CA1FF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m2f3Cu9S6+DB for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A2821F99D3 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.2]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LkUyL-1UEnBW1NHP-00cPGX for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:28:21 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jun 2013 19:28:21 -0000 Received: from host-94-101-1-228.igua.fi (EHLO [192.168.4.115]) [94.101.1.228] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 11 Jun 2013 21:28:21 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18V+z1S+BEVZ343WTVfeVwFCb57d3F8nbqiu6wU2c 0bjJPJNm9jKxFi Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Hannes Tschofenig In-Reply-To: <0A435EB9-7C87-45BE-B23D-0E0CE2FDD006@sensinode.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 22:28:17 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <51AE2BD3.30300@cs.tcd.ie> <0A435EB9-7C87-45BE-B23D-0E0CE2FDD006@sensinode.com> To: Zach Shelby X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.4.1 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , Hannes Tschofenig , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:28:32 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Jun 11, 2013, at 10:08 PM, Zach Shelby wrote: >>> Integrating DTLS with IoT (iDiot) I like that idea. That's a working group name that is easy to Google. = 150 mio hits... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJRt3pRAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtEZYH/1KC7vW8ZIwDhMyJ2/oTGWbN d6O2pMjp1GRkWZ05A3f9rLE+Gb1eS4JRDVyOW065UlzoAzFLB4c06dqFkKQ1ukWy fCzaJthuMvRqTXInhojB+iDb11Bffocf822PxzxQ5JluFCp5Yydurqala7TwAIbT VWCBJ6W9nkTfHoBtlccOe9th1v9wRBOB59zNaE3O/oFkp7gn1oHq5boOKZ+OXJvw fsWVS46h2l8ZuNC85hlQyYo77KW91IB1VNHZ/AzHsta9k/T9aUT3qxVlYblKmJbM a9/E3JCYTTwFXZcqWKjpDtov6CpMzIz8wlj0/ZJXDAm3MAh5DQG7X/XXDGNBiv8=3D =3DgBzB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From d.sturek@att.net Tue Jun 11 12:28:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC4621F99DB for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:28:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W2K9kdXo96+o for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm3-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm3-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.136]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB7021F99DE for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.94.237.200] by nm3.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2013 19:28:39 -0000 Received: from [98.138.84.215] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2013 19:28:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp104.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2013 19:28:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1370978919; bh=K8A9iHOQJAwuNKSjHQg3aD6ewcEEVUkvT2acpi6pF/8=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=s6tm3YuY1vw09zc6/MIlv7vhZSfkZ2GB5Fjdudt9ZBDvh2ix/EmPcrlGzFwMlOKPX5i1IZBk1PTBXzIQGlMCr5l5lnV/pGGSLxxgYV1cdW0kMCDTnoVksjeMFj9OIFa8AsUrukvZIRGheWFC4V3kXqE9bn3SXnL9ijcvVnc3KP0= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 621997.51254.bm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: t9SR0sQVM1lEm8QzHOrJrRN5mrXQVAD7JUbQbyv2sJn0Qk1 7znY7UbfiEoBXcARcfPDVeFO.GDniqt5YJWBQ3EgoQx9ndXgI6JFXSbvvMtL m1y6kAmusIlmRMX3s8JKTvEqMV6pEa440Z7XrEjmrdwybvI.a.kOONHJigch XL0GTmpCpGkLFNOLODliO7PAGBqnLXqvvVHWSYM2.5aBlWNRgJ3JIY.AR1hd Hr26BvqNfNnrVQbthi9x16Cd4Ytr.z1.fnaicay.C3jItnWxd8hvYgunsAqF Pq9HghP3bgLJeABa0OWQ61Oq2oVnVwQeNYLBcWYAndRfta.KfEgZw5U5kIWD sGlpOr4b5wLlKHTi_rxLf2d03qtT6YK79epBOTtQl9pMlcEWhMTcmSCLtnIf aCFyYWIkFX9WyU8IbwCNwO9vFzh0lbbRDwhLIEAfEZCEvFq0kTOy15gc9_z9 PP6TkiRF.pO5OLeRJBV6k87Ht.yEZIqSogdN5PD_25P4xPNf03EdImwQEpS. 7JgAk_c_lSMUcl8T9dckKiNGcr2cgwxCj3Cl0E01ZfsheDZYG5caszOpz9qG YFDG4EiXPho1QQKlB7fGEXN276CBhDmWv3gv0qHyqT.b_o3of3jv23QyAW4p IrZZbrqczExWnmUDJ.WiWSQOxSLgfzSs6A7mVzVx8MpSLMWMp7DaH X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.1.1.117] (d.sturek@66.27.60.174 with login) by smtp104.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2013 19:28:39 +0000 UTC User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.4.130416 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:28:36 -0700 From: Don Sturek To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "paduffy@cisco.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:28:44 -0000 Hi Sye Loong, We (the ZigBee Alliance) are not currently working on revocation issues since our focus is on network joining. We don't use revocation on our identity (device) certificates since these certificates are just for authentication. For authorization, we expect additional certificates to be used (provided by service providers, utilities, etc.). These certificates need to have CRL or OCSP, however, these processes are a bit heavyweight for the devices we are using. Don On 6/11/13 11:57 AM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" wrote: >Thanks for the Clarification Don and Paul. > >Indeed, this is a good area of investigation. However, are we too early >to explore revocation issues in this BOF? I had the impression that this >BOF/WG aims to investigate the use of DTLS for IoT applications, or at >least getting DTLS to run "comfortably" together with CoAP would be the >primary goal of this activity and revocation is rather independent of >this, isn't it? > >BTW, Is there any plan in Zigbee-IP or Zigbee Alliance to investigate >Revocation issue? > >cheers >Sye Loong >________________________________________ >From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of >Don Sturek [d.sturek@att.net] >Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:02 PM >To: paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > >To add onto what Paul wrote...... > >ZigBee IP supports white lists/ black lists for network admission but we >leave it up to the application as to how these lists are created/managed. > As Paul noted, OCSP or CRL on device certificates is not a scalable >solution (and in many cases not even desired......) > >To back up Paul's suggestion, it would be great to see this as an area of >investigation in dlts-iot (or whatever the name becomes!) > >Don > > >On 6/10/13 9:34 AM, "Paul Duffy" wrote: > >>Zigbee IP does not mandate use of CRLs or OCSP for device certificates >>(in IEEE 802.1AR-speak ... the UDevID). Supporting these mechanisms for >>device certificates on constrained devices and networks, at mass scale, >>is highly problematic. >> >>Definitely an area for investigation. >> >> >>On 6/10/2013 4:48 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: >>> Hi Bert, >>> >>> Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP >>>checks the revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially >>>serious problem in the future when devices are being replaced, >>>compromised, and when reselling them? >>> >>> Cheers >>> Sye Loong >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>Behalf Of Bert Greevenbosch >>> Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 >>> To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ >>> >>> This is quite an early approach to tackling the >>>revocation/authentication issue in a scalable way. Section 4 discusses >>>some requirements. >>> >>> The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it addresses >>>an issue that requires due attention. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Bert >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>Behalf Of Zach Shelby >>> Sent: 2013$BG/(B6$B7n(B4$BF|(B 21:58 >>> To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >>> >>> I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this >>>activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help is >>>needed. >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Existing work >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt >>>> >>>>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollment- >>>>0 >>>>1.txt >>> Regards, >>> Zach >>> >>> -- >>> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. >>> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT >>> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 >>> Twitter: @zach_shelby >>> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby >>> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> The information contained in this message may be confidential and >>>legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely >>>for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are >>>hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction >>>of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are >>>not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail >>>and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> . >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dtls-iot mailing list >>dtls-iot@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > >________________________________ >The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally >protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the >addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby >notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this >message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the >intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and >destroy all copies of the original message. > From paduffy@cisco.com Tue Jun 11 18:26:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225D021F9AD1 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:26:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WY3rZ-TMjHve for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A0F21F9A74 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:26:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3114; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1371000390; x=1372209990; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=NjRNjW8g8Xq1pFF8bfoBuhC3SnJZAwLVFY+nHGU1Brg=; b=mZJ14mW+iBX431v+aY3bEBavmTyB/5iwv+o4FhotNt9WfcgizlSc2wN/ kHRehIyZ+VCF99pTs4w7kUr7IPFc2Dm/d8qi9s6L22FrpwTYVg3ub51OB ayRmFCFAvJmAT+N9YLcS4DRTvpgNSKtpO5XpIY/vjfC1kx1IOgrHZ3PKK Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAEnNt1GQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABZgwkwAYkatgR/FnSCIwEBAQQBAQFrChELBBQJFAIPCQMCAQIBFTATBgIBAYgKDLoEBI1ngVIWg0oDl0CGH4sjgxE6 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,848,1363132800"; d="scan'208,217";a="155233066" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Jun 2013 01:26:28 +0000 Received: from [10.61.208.180] ([10.61.208.180]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r5C1QRDM015477 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:26:27 GMT Message-ID: <51B7CE3B.5090907@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 03:26:19 +0200 From: Paul Duffy Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <51AE2BD3.30300@cs.tcd.ie> <0A435EB9-7C87-45BE-B23D-0E0CE2FDD006@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <0A435EB9-7C87-45BE-B23D-0E0CE2FDD006@sensinode.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010701060607060902050907" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: paduffy@cisco.com List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 01:26:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010701060607060902050907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There in not a chance that Cisco will advocate to a critical infrastructure customer the usage of IDIOT. +1 for DOT. On 6/11/2013 9:08 PM, Zach Shelby wrote: > On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > >>> We have an idea, it's very catchy, but maybe it's too provoking! How about >>> >>> Integrating DTLS with IoT (iDiot) >> Excellent! >> >> I bet you won't stick with it though:-) > I say let's take Stephen's challenge and go with iDiot. Catchy name, and since we're not creating any new protocols there is almost no chance it will end up in an RFC :-) > > DOT is safe and boring, let's use that as a backup if people beat us up in the BOF really badly about the name... > > Zach > > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot --------------010701060607060902050907 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
There in not a chance that Cisco will advocate to a critical infrastructure customer the usage of IDIOT.

+1 for DOT.

On 6/11/2013 9:08 PM, Zach Shelby wrote:
On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:


We have an idea, it's very catchy, but maybe it's too provoking! How about

       Integrating DTLS with IoT (iDiot)

Excellent!

I bet you won't stick with it though:-)

I say let's take Stephen's challenge and go with iDiot. Catchy name, and since we're not creating any new protocols there is almost no chance it will end up in an RFC :-) 

DOT is safe and boring, let's use that as a backup if people beat us up in the BOF really badly about the name…

Zach




_______________________________________________
dtls-iot mailing list
dtls-iot@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot

--------------010701060607060902050907-- From hartke@tzi.org Tue Jun 11 14:03:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B55021F99F7 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.626 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.626 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5bY2gQnAj-Z6 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA04521F99ED for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:03:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r5BL3VlO003009 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:03:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vb0-f43.google.com (mail-vb0-f43.google.com [209.85.212.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7B4536FB for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:03:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vb0-f43.google.com with SMTP id e12so3141891vbg.30 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:03:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6yXc139pcF4PsfI3b4bXw/n9f6xnHHSHZLU4rp+s0Yc=; b=VsH43QewDny+eYjWTlhId4nykEP2/3vmRSNlvoTgwH6a82eTkhOY0MR+DdBfNwrxEW cfZ12w+IxPWCjAUFj9IcxLTYKm/gQCDVreTDbuU9D89XTguJdHJdmjFgUkk8cUiZtIsD Ue8pZGt+LD7Tm2c9w3cwg5As4LItN5psWgz8DkmjT7Wl8dCzqRKxNwRZfo1oLRBBtL1l ZT1vGd0XX/pAGOtNDqjtKJko04dP9UJyIe7FmiuULZ4cj8goXkzwuRrweB6Pdw5ZP1a0 VaElIlQIy5/3QEIPJgT+GTti/U79nvQS1WxgWsOTExVhc+V6aeYmOw9balXQ6mBXK+/+ eBdQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.97.69 with SMTP id k5mr8628243vcn.47.1370984609577; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.26.238 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:03:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:03:29 +0300 Message-ID: From: Klaus Hartke To: Zach Shelby Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2dd7ea5849404dee73a00 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:14:38 -0700 Cc: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:03:52 -0000 --001a11c2dd7ea5849404dee73a00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CONDENSE - COnstrained NoDE Network SEcurity - Klaus On Tuesday, 4 June 2013, Zach Shelby wrote: > We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for IoT mailing list, great > to see all the interest. > > Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG > acronym! > > "DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a nice > acronym, and should we improve the title as well? > > Zach > > -- > Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. > http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT > Mobile: +358 40 7796297 > Twitter: @zach_shelby > LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby > 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net > > > > > --001a11c2dd7ea5849404dee73a00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CONDENSE - COnstrained NoDE Network=A0SEcurity

<= div>- Klaus

On Tuesday, 4 June 2013, Zach Shelby wrote:
We now have 90 people subscribed to the DTLS for IoT mailing list, great to= see all the interest.

Now for a subject always generating plenty of discussion - we need a WG acr= onym!

"DTLS for IoT" has been our working title so far. Any ideas for a= nice acronym, and should we improve the title as well?

Zach

--
Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd.
http://www.sensinode= .com @SensinodeIoT
Mobile: +358 40 7796297
Twitter: @zach_shelby
LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby
6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowp= an.net




--001a11c2dd7ea5849404dee73a00-- From zach@sensinode.com Tue Jun 11 23:23:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6975321F9C0D for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:23:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fp+nVJEyWfFg for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F04D21F9C10 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (80-186-8-21.elisa-mobile.fi [80.186.8.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r5C6NJDo024204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:23:24 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_33032FF1-08F3-42C4-89F7-847B44AF0DE7"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: <51B7CE3B.5090907@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:23:16 +0300 Message-Id: References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <51AE2BD3.30300@cs.tcd.ie> <0A435EB9-7C87-45BE-B23D-0E0CE2FDD006@sensinode.com> <51B7CE3B.5090907@cisco.com> To: paduffy@cisco.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:23:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_33032FF1-08F3-42C4-89F7-847B44AF0DE7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Paul, On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:26 AM, Paul Duffy wrote: > There in not a chance that Cisco will advocate to a critical = infrastructure customer the usage of IDIOT. Good point, although it would only be the working group name, the = protocol is still DTLS. Nor would that be in the title of any documents. = Although, it does show up in the I-D titles until published as RFC=85 = hmm=85. > +1 for DOT. It is the safe backup in my opinion. If we go that direction, we would = need to decide what colour our DOT is :-) Zach --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_33032FF1-08F3-42C4-89F7-847B44AF0DE7 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMjEyMDgwMDAwMDBaFw0x 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xdjkryn9GCjZ for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643B521F9C1A for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:51:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r5C6p6Eo016021; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.105] (p54893401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.52.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56E023795; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:51:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> To: Klaus Hartke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:53:25 -0700 Cc: Zach Shelby , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:51:17 -0000 On Jun 11, 2013, at 23:03, Klaus Hartke wrote: > CONDENSE - COnstrained NoDE Network SEcurity CONDIMENT -- COnstrained Node Dtls ImproveMENTs. (Hmm, moves the question from the color of the dot to kind of condiment. I'll take some =EA=B3=A0=EC=B6=94=EC=9E=A5 with my DTLS, please.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Tue Jun 11 23:58:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 449C021F9C1B for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:58:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zlyB3aBWQkTh for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail41.extendcp.co.uk (mail41.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.44.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6B521F9C16 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [94.117.88.116] (helo=[10.38.247.29]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1Umf0T-0004tj-Rv for dtls-iot@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:58:09 +0100 Message-ID: <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:58:11 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050506000100010302060602" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:58:16 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050506000100010302060602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How about DICE? DTLS In Constrained Environments Robert On 12/06/2013 07:51, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jun 11, 2013, at 23:03, Klaus Hartke wrote: > >> CONDENSE - COnstrained NoDE Network SEcurity > CONDIMENT -- COnstrained Node Dtls ImproveMENTs. > > (Hmm, moves the question from the color of the dot to kind of condiment= =2E > I'll take some =EA=B3=A0=EC=B6=94=EC=9E=A5 with my DTLS, please.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot --------------ms050506000100010302060602 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV 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required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vi65wnFf8s66 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3239C21F9C16 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (80-186-8-21.elisa-mobile.fi [80.186.8.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r5C6wCTY004252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:59:39 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_15E0B52D-83B9-4626-A424-D18E7AD4E4D8"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:59:39 +0300 Message-Id: <3A864662-240F-4F19-A199-871CBEFAE9F7@sensinode.com> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:59:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_15E0B52D-83B9-4626-A424-D18E7AD4E4D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Oh, DICE is really good too!=20 Zach On Jun 12, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Robert Cragie = wrote: > How about DICE? >=20 > DTLS In Constrained Environments >=20 > Robert >=20 > On 12/06/2013 07:51, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Jun 11, 2013, at 23:03, Klaus Hartke wrote: >>=20 >>> CONDENSE - COnstrained NoDE Network SEcurity >> CONDIMENT -- COnstrained Node Dtls ImproveMENTs. >>=20 >> (Hmm, moves the question from the color of the dot to kind of = condiment. >> I'll take some =EA=B3=A0=EC=B6=94=EC=9E=A5 with my DTLS, please.) >>=20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_15E0B52D-83B9-4626-A424-D18E7AD4E4D8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg 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NO X-Spam-Score: -106.162 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.162 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ljs74n5Fd1M3 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB05621F9C19 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 23:59:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r5C6xl1t029512; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:59:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.217.105] (p54893401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.137.52.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35CC937AB; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:59:47 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:59:46 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:00:02 -0000 On Jun 12, 2013, at 08:58, Robert Cragie = wrote: > How about DICE? So are we going to address sources of entropy on constrained nodes, too? = :-) Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Wed Jun 12 00:01:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2AD921F9C15 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:01:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ccT5BRY3TRam for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail41.extendcp.co.uk (mail41.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.44.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A283421F9C16 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [94.117.88.116] (helo=[10.38.247.29]) by mail41.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80.1) id 1Umf38-0000e9-S6 for dtls-iot@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:00:54 +0100 Message-ID: <51B81CA7.2010002@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 08:00:55 +0100 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020306010801000203020701" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:01:01 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020306010801000203020701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're gambling if you don't use DTLS ;-) Robert On 12/06/2013 07:59, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jun 12, 2013, at 08:58, Robert Cragie = wrote: > >> How about DICE? > So are we going to address sources of entropy on constrained nodes, too= ? :-) > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > --------------ms020306010801000203020701 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" 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dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C5821F9C1F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mDp0Az4V+SWn for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw-sa01.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.1.47]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18B721F9C15 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com (in-mx.nokia.com [10.160.244.30]) by mgw-sa01.nokia.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r5C75h1k003436; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:05:44 +0300 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.21]) by vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:05:43 +0300 Received: from 008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com ([169.254.3.67]) by 008-AM1MMR1-012.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.21]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:07:10 +0000 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? Thread-Index: AQHOYT/C7jK4Nq+9ZUuQ3aWMEyeP/JkxC7+AgACkLICAAAH8gIAAAXyQ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:07:10 +0000 Message-ID: <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE4430969620475C1C9@008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com> References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> In-Reply-To: <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.22.206.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2013 07:05:43.0950 (UTC) FILETIME=[4178F2E0:01CE673B] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:06:05 -0000 RGljZSBpcyBuaWNlIC0gSSBoYXZlIHRvIGFkbWl0IGl0IHNvdW5kcyBiZXR0ZXIgdGhhbiBkb3Qg OikNCg0KCVRlZW11DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBkdGxzLWlv dC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86ZHRscy1pb3QtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24g QmVoYWxmIE9mIGV4dCBSb2JlcnQgQ3JhZ2llDQpTZW50OiAxMi4ga2Vzw6RrdXV0YSAyMDEzIDku NTgNClRvOiBkdGxzLWlvdEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtEdGxzLWlvdF0gQm9GL1dH IG5hbWU/DQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dCBESUNFPw0KDQpEVExTIEluIENvbnN0cmFpbmVkIEVudmlyb25t ZW50cw0KDQpSb2JlcnQNCg0KT24gMTIvMDYvMjAxMyAwNzo1MSwgQ2Fyc3RlbiBCb3JtYW5uIHdy b3RlOg0KPiBPbiBKdW4gMTEsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDIzOjAzLCBLbGF1cyBIYXJ0a2UgPGhhcnRrZUB0 emkub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4NCj4+IENPTkRFTlNFIC0gQ09uc3RyYWluZWQgTm9ERSBOZXR3b3Jr IFNFY3VyaXR5DQo+IENPTkRJTUVOVCAtLSBDT25zdHJhaW5lZCBOb2RlIER0bHMgSW1wcm92ZU1F TlRzLg0KPg0KPiAoSG1tLCBtb3ZlcyB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gZnJvbSB0aGUgY29sb3Igb2YgdGhl IGRvdCB0byBraW5kIG9mIGNvbmRpbWVudC4NCj4gSSdsbCB0YWtlIHNvbWUg6rOg7LaU7J6lIHdp dGggbXkgRFRMUywgcGxlYXNlLikNCj4NCj4gR3LDvMOfZSwgQ2Fyc3Rlbg0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBkdGxzLWlvdCBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gZHRscy1pb3RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kdGxzLWlvdA0KDQoNCg== From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Wed Jun 12 00:23:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D8B21F9C13 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:23:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uAgSfB7vcaxd for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (tx2ehsobe001.messaging.microsoft.com [65.55.88.11]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E15821F9C12 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail96-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.229) by TX2EHSOBE015.bigfish.com (10.9.40.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:48 +0000 Received: from mail96-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail96-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF482006C; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -36 X-BigFish: VPS-36(zzbb2dI98dI15d6Oc89bh542I1432I9251I179dN217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h93fhd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h) Received: from mail96-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail96-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1371021826407556_31613; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS041.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.239]) by mail96-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559502A0048; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by TX2EHSMHS041.bigfish.com (10.9.99.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:45 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-012.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.96) by 011-DB3MMR1-004.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:13 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-012.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:44 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "teemu.savolainen@nokia.com" , "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? Thread-Index: AQHOYT+ylhlvn0bCJ0aF5XDLnSXR+JkxC7+AgACkLICAAAH8gIAAAoMAgAAEgmA= Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE4430969620475C1C9@008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE4430969620475C1C9@008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:23:56 -0000 RElDRSBpcyBuaWNlIEkgaGF2ZSB0byBzYXkhDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0t DQpGcm9tOiBkdGxzLWlvdC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86ZHRscy1pb3QtYm91bmNl c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIHRlZW11LnNhdm9sYWluZW5Abm9raWEuY29tDQpTZW50 OiB3b2Vuc2RhZyAxMiBqdW5pIDIwMTMgOTowNw0KVG86IHJvYmVydC5jcmFnaWVAZ3JpZG1lcmdl LmNvbTsgZHRscy1pb3RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbRHRscy1pb3RdIEJvRi9XRyBu YW1lPw0KDQpEaWNlIGlzIG5pY2UgLSBJIGhhdmUgdG8gYWRtaXQgaXQgc291bmRzIGJldHRlciB0 aGFuIGRvdCA6KQ0KDQogICAgICAgIFRlZW11DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0t DQpGcm9tOiBkdGxzLWlvdC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86ZHRscy1pb3QtYm91bmNl c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIGV4dCBSb2JlcnQgQ3JhZ2llDQpTZW50OiAxMi4ga2Vz w6RrdXV0YSAyMDEzIDkuNTgNClRvOiBkdGxzLWlvdEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtE dGxzLWlvdF0gQm9GL1dHIG5hbWU/DQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dCBESUNFPw0KDQpEVExTIEluIENvbnN0 cmFpbmVkIEVudmlyb25tZW50cw0KDQpSb2JlcnQNCg0KT24gMTIvMDYvMjAxMyAwNzo1MSwgQ2Fy c3RlbiBCb3JtYW5uIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBPbiBKdW4gMTEsIDIwMTMsIGF0IDIzOjAzLCBLbGF1cyBI YXJ0a2UgPGhhcnRrZUB0emkub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4NCj4+IENPTkRFTlNFIC0gQ09uc3RyYWlu ZWQgTm9ERSBOZXR3b3JrIFNFY3VyaXR5DQo+IENPTkRJTUVOVCAtLSBDT25zdHJhaW5lZCBOb2Rl IER0bHMgSW1wcm92ZU1FTlRzLg0KPg0KPiAoSG1tLCBtb3ZlcyB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gZnJvbSB0 aGUgY29sb3Igb2YgdGhlIGRvdCB0byBraW5kIG9mIGNvbmRpbWVudC4NCj4gSSdsbCB0YWtlIHNv bWUg6rOg7LaU7J6lIHdpdGggbXkgRFRMUywgcGxlYXNlLikNCj4NCj4gR3LDvMOfZSwgQ2Fyc3Rl bg0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0K PiBkdGxzLWlvdCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gZHRscy1pb3RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kdGxzLWlvdA0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpkdGxzLWlvdCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN CmR0bHMtaW90QGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2R0bHMtaW90DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpUaGUgaW5mb3Jt YXRpb24gY29udGFpbmVkIGluIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBtYXkgYmUgY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIGFuZCBs ZWdhbGx5IHByb3RlY3RlZCB1bmRlciBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIGxhdy4gVGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UgaXMgaW50 ZW5kZWQgc29sZWx5IGZvciB0aGUgYWRkcmVzc2VlKHMpLiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0aGUgaW50 ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50LCB5b3UgYXJlIGhlcmVieSBub3RpZmllZCB0aGF0IGFueSB1c2UsIGZv cndhcmRpbmcsIGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIG9yIHJlcHJvZHVjdGlvbiBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Ug aXMgc3RyaWN0bHkgcHJvaGliaXRlZCBhbmQgbWF5IGJlIHVubGF3ZnVsLiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5v dCB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50LCBwbGVhc2UgY29udGFjdCB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGJ5IHJl dHVybiBlLW1haWwgYW5kIGRlc3Ryb3kgYWxsIGNvcGllcyBvZiB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2Fn ZS4NCg== From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Wed Jun 12 03:31:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B72321F9BA7 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 03:31:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xu+az0Po21IE for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 03:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E5C21F9C1B for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 03:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084B6BEB2; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:30:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pqX3Wk6e9mq7; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:30:35 +0100 (IST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:24c6:3ab1:3e3d:b83f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:24c6:3ab1:3e3d:b83f]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D9620BEA4; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:30:35 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51B84DCC.7060003@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:30:36 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE4430969620475C1C9@008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "robert.cragie@gridmerge.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , "teemu.savolainen@nokia.com" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:31:02 -0000 On 06/12/2013 08:23 AM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: > DICE is nice I have to say! Ok, DICE it is. I'll check if that's ever been used before and if not go with that. (Re-using a BoF name would be a no-no, this group might suddenly appear to inherit a bunch of half done drafts from years ago:-) I'll confirm here when I've checked its ok. Now, please go ahead and discuss the rest of the charter and the relevant drafts in separate threads... (In about a week, the IESG and IAB will be looking to see if this is an active group of interested folks or not...) S. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of teemu.savolainen@nokia.com > Sent: woensdag 12 juni 2013 9:07 > To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? > > Dice is nice - I have to admit it sounds better than dot :) > > Teemu > > -----Original Message----- > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Robert Cragie > Sent: 12. kesäkuuta 2013 9.58 > To: dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? > > How about DICE? > > DTLS In Constrained Environments > > Robert > > On 12/06/2013 07:51, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Jun 11, 2013, at 23:03, Klaus Hartke wrote: >> >>> CONDENSE - COnstrained NoDE Network SEcurity >> CONDIMENT -- COnstrained Node Dtls ImproveMENTs. >> >> (Hmm, moves the question from the color of the dot to kind of condiment. >> I'll take some 고추장 with my DTLS, please.) >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > ________________________________ > The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Wed Jun 12 07:50:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9777721F9C48 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:50:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GLirsm2AWrX6 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417FA21F9C38 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1ACBEAA; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:49:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXfNmTqX0SUz; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:49:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:24c6:3ab1:3e3d:b83f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:24c6:3ab1:3e3d:b83f]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71332BE62; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:49:59 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51B88A97.1030000@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:49:59 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Farrell , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" References: <80FA75BA-B167-448F-9D7F-EF9DBC5A0287@sensinode.com> <784BB64D-4704-4D0B-89D3-F202B318054D@tzi.org> <51B81C03.3080708@gridmerge.com> <916CE6CF87173740BC8A2CE4430969620475C1C9@008-AM1MPN1-053.mgdnok.nokia.com> <51B84DCC.7060003@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <51B84DCC.7060003@cs.tcd.ie> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF/WG name? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:50:43 -0000 DICE is a fine acronym, and surprisingly never used before. So we're set for that. And just for the record: DICE = DTLS In Constrained Environments S. From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Wed Jun 12 07:56:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B0021F9923 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:56:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ltbBh0jIYL-i for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A237A21F99D2 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 07:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail196-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.237) by CO1EHSOBE041.bigfish.com (10.243.66.106) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; 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Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:56:25 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-007.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.57]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:56:11 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHOZ3wMDOyPyxibZUGS0tsegVkwDZkyKWjg Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20130612144959.889.33992.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20130612144959.889.33992.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: [Dtls-iot] New Version Notification for draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:56:48 -0000 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCldlIGhhdmUganVzdCBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYSBzdHJhdy1tYW4gZHJhZnQgdG8g aW5pdGlhdGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhcm91bmQgRFRMUyBwcm9maWxpbmcgZm9yIElvVCwgYW5kIGFs c28gdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBDb0FQIEJsb2Nrd2lzZSB0cmFuc2ZlciB0byBtaXRpZ2F0ZSBmcmFnbWVu dGF0aW9uIG9mIERUTFMgSGFuZHNoYWtlIG1lc3NhZ2VzLg0KDQpDb21tZW50cywgZmVlZGJhY2ss IGFuZCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyBmcm9tIHRoZSBncm91cCBhcmUgZ3JlYXRseSBhcHByZWNpYXRlZC4N Cg0KQ2hlZXJzDQpTeWUgTG9vbmcNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206 IGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9y Z10NClNlbnQ6IHdvZW5zZGFnIDEyIGp1bmkgMjAxMyAxNjo1MA0KVG86IFphY2ggU2hlbGJ5OyBL dW1hciwgU2FuZGVlcDsgS3VtYXIsIFNhbmRlZXA7IEtlb2gsIFN5ZSBMb29uZzsgS2VvaCwgU3ll IExvb25nDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWtlb2gt ZHRscy1wcm9maWxlLWlvdC0wMC50eHQNCg0KDQpBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQt a2VvaC1kdGxzLXByb2ZpbGUtaW90LTAwLnR4dA0KaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1Ym1p dHRlZCBieSBTeWUgTG9vbmcgS2VvaCBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnku DQoNCkZpbGVuYW1lOiAgICAgICAgZHJhZnQta2VvaC1kdGxzLXByb2ZpbGUtaW90DQpSZXZpc2lv bjogICAgICAgIDAwDQpUaXRsZTogICAgICAgICAgIFByb2ZpbGluZyBvZiBEVExTIGZvciBDb0FQ LWJhc2VkIElvVCBBcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMNCkNyZWF0aW9uIGRhdGU6ICAgMjAxMy0wNi0xMg0KR3Jv dXA6ICAgICAgICAgICBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCk51bWJlciBvZiBwYWdlczogMTQN ClVSTDogICAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvZHJh ZnQta2VvaC1kdGxzLXByb2ZpbGUtaW90LTAwLnR4dA0KU3RhdHVzOiAgICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8v ZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWtlb2gtZHRscy1wcm9maWxlLWlvdA0KSHRt bGl6ZWQ6ICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1rZW9oLWR0bHMt cHJvZmlsZS1pb3QtMDANCg0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgY29sbGVjdHMg dmFyaW91cyBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBjaGFsbGVuZ2VzIG9mIERUTFMgb24NCiAgIGVtYmVkZGVk IHN5c3RlbXMsIGFuZCBwcm9wb3NlcyBhIHByb2ZpbGUgb2YgRFRMUyBmb3IgQ29BUC1iYXNlZA0K ICAgSW50ZXJuZXQgb2YgVGhpbmdzIChJb1QpIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucy4gU3BlY2lmaWNhbGx5LCB0 aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50DQogICBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0ZXMgdGhlIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGZlYXR1cmVzIGFu ZCBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5IG9mIERUTFMNCiAgIHByb3RvY29sLCB0aGUgZnJhZ21lbnRhdGlvbiBp c3N1ZSBvZiBEVExTIEhhbmRzaGFrZSBwcm90b2NvbCwgYW5kIHRoZQ0KICAgY29tcGxleGl0eSBv ZiB0aGUgRFRMUyBIYW5kc2hha2Ugc3RhdGUgbWFjaGluZS4gQSBSRVNUZnVsIERUTFMNCiAgIEhh bmRzaGFrZSB3aGljaCByZWxpZXMgb24gQ29BUCBCbG9jay13aXNlIFRyYW5zZmVyIGlzIHByb3Bv c2VkIHRvDQogICBhZGRyZXNzIHRoZSBmcmFnbWVudGF0aW9uIGlzc3VlLiBUaGUgbmV4dCBzdGVw IGlzIHRvIGRlZmluZSBhIERUTFMNCiAgIHByb2ZpbGUgZm9yIGVtYmVkZGVkIHN5c3RlbXMuDQoN Cg0KDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NClRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBjb250YWluZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIG1heSBi ZSBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIGxlZ2FsbHkgcHJvdGVjdGVkIHVuZGVyIGFwcGxpY2FibGUgbGF3 LiBUaGUgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBpbnRlbmRlZCBzb2xlbHkgZm9yIHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzZWUocykuIElm IHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHlvdSBhcmUgaGVyZWJ5IG5vdGlm aWVkIHRoYXQgYW55IHVzZSwgZm9yd2FyZGluZywgZGlzc2VtaW5hdGlvbiwgb3IgcmVwcm9kdWN0 aW9uIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBzdHJpY3RseSBwcm9oaWJpdGVkIGFuZCBtYXkgYmUgdW5s YXdmdWwuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHBsZWFzZSBjb250 YWN0IHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYnkgcmV0dXJuIGUtbWFpbCBhbmQgZGVzdHJveSBhbGwgY29waWVzIG9m IHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlLg0K From Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com Wed Jun 12 17:54:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A92321E805A for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.709 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.709 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.313, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1ERs28irtz72 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A6D21E80A3 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ASK09437; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 00:53:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 01:53:47 +0100 Received: from SZXEML450-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.193) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 01:53:53 +0100 Received: from szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.152]) by szxeml450-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.193]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 08:53:46 +0800 From: Bert Greevenbosch To: Don Sturek , "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "paduffy@cisco.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGOAUZwJzXGKUe3oYMXKt/zQpklD46AgAE43WCACEM2AIAAHZ+AgAAH2oCAAbKogIAACJoAgAJtETA= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 00:53:44 +0000 Message-ID: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.162.63] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... 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07:20:15 +0000 From: "Kumar, Sandeep" To: Bert Greevenbosch , Don Sturek , "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "paduffy@cisco.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGOhgVVfinMhE+wOtz3Va6RyZklD46AgAE43WCACEM2AIAAHZ+AgAAH2oCAAbKogIAACJoAgAJtETCAAG9jYA== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 07:20:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.103] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 07:20:51 -0000 Hi Bert I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. However = before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol to be cap= able of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The I-D submitted ye= sterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to kick off this= discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we surely should th= ink more seriously on revocation. The charter should focus to first fulfill= this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for constrained environments otherw= ise we might end up spending lot of energy designing revocation techniques = without any relevant protocol that would work within a constrained domain. Kind regards Sandeep Filename: draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot Revision: 00 Title: Profiling of DTLS for CoAP-based IoT Applications Creation date: 2013-06-12 Group: Individual Submission Number of pages: 14 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-keoh-dtls-profil= e-iot-00.txt Status: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-keoh-dtls-profile-io= t Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00 Abstract: This document collects various implementation challenges of DTLS on embedded systems, and proposes a profile of DTLS for CoAP-based Internet of Things (IoT) applications. Specifically, this document investigates the application features and functionality of DTLS protocol, the fragmentation issue of DTLS Handshake protocol, and the complexity of the DTLS Handshake state machine. A RESTful DTLS Handshake which relies on CoAP Block-wise Transfer is proposed to address the fragmentation issue. The next step is to define a DTLS profile for embedded systems. -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Bert Greevenbosch Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:54 AM To: Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org; Zach= Shelby Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Hi Don, Sye Loong, Zach, all, Indeed CRL and OCSP are far too heavyweight for a constrained environment. = Hence my attempt to create a solution that delegates revocation and authori= sation checking to a trusted and more capable intermediary. The proposed OCSP-lite protocol (we still need a better name for this) is t= he protocol between the constrained device and the intermediary; the interm= ediary can then perform the more advanced revocation/authorisation checks. Anyway I think it is too early to discuss the technical solution, after all= we are only in the charter drafting phase. But I do think that revocation/= authorisation is an essential part in a security system, and should be give= n due attention in the WG from the beginning. Best regards, Bert -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Don Sturek Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B6=1B$B7n=1B(B12=1B$BF|=1B(B 3:29 To: Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Hi Sye Loong, We (the ZigBee Alliance) are not currently working on revocation issues since our focus is on network joining. We don't use revocation on our identity (device) certificates since these certificates are just for authen= tication. For authorization, we expect additional certificates to be used (provided b= y service providers, utilities, etc.). These certificates need to have CRL= or OCSP, however, these processes are a bit heavyweight for the devices we= are using. Don On 6/11/13 11:57 AM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" wrote: >Thanks for the Clarification Don and Paul. > >Indeed, this is a good area of investigation. However, are we too early >to explore revocation issues in this BOF? I had the impression that >this BOF/WG aims to investigate the use of DTLS for IoT applications, >or at least getting DTLS to run "comfortably" together with CoAP would >be the primary goal of this activity and revocation is rather >independent of this, isn't it? > >BTW, Is there any plan in Zigbee-IP or Zigbee Alliance to investigate >Revocation issue? > >cheers >Sye Loong >________________________________________ >From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf >of Don Sturek [d.sturek@att.net] >Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 7:02 PM >To: paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > >To add onto what Paul wrote...... > >ZigBee IP supports white lists/ black lists for network admission but >we leave it up to the application as to how these lists are created/manage= d. > As Paul noted, OCSP or CRL on device certificates is not a scalable >solution (and in many cases not even desired......) > >To back up Paul's suggestion, it would be great to see this as an area >of investigation in dlts-iot (or whatever the name becomes!) > >Don > > >On 6/10/13 9:34 AM, "Paul Duffy" wrote: > >>Zigbee IP does not mandate use of CRLs or OCSP for device certificates >>(in IEEE 802.1AR-speak ... the UDevID). Supporting these mechanisms >>for device certificates on constrained devices and networks, at mass >>scale, is highly problematic. >> >>Definitely an area for investigation. >> >> >>On 6/10/2013 4:48 PM, Keoh, Sye Loong wrote: >>> Hi Bert, >>> >>> Do you know whether the current IoT Deployments, such as Zigbee-IP >>>checks the revocation list? Do you foresee Revocation a potentially >>>serious problem in the future when devices are being replaced, >>>compromised, and when reselling them? >>> >>> Cheers >>> Sye Loong >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] >>>On Behalf Of Bert Greevenbosch >>> Sent: vrijdag 7 juni 2013 3:56 >>> To: Zach Shelby; dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think the following draft fits in the discussion of DTLS-IOT: >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-greevenbosch-tls-ocsp-lite/ >>> >>> This is quite an early approach to tackling the >>>revocation/authentication issue in a scalable way. Section 4 >>>discusses some requirements. >>> >>> The draft certainly is to be seen as work in progress, but it >>>addresses an issue that requires due attention. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Bert >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] >>>On Behalf Of Zach Shelby >>> Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B6=1B$B7n=1B(B4=1B$BF|=1B(B 21:58 >>> To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >>> >>> I know there are several people working on new I-Ds related to this >>>activity, please let us know what you are working on and if any help >>>is needed. >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:23 PM, Stephen Farrell >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Existing work >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-hartke-core-codtls-02.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-lwig-tls-minimal-02.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-lwig-dtls-iot-01.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-keoh-tls-multicast-security-00.txt >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-oob-pubkey-07.txt >>>> >>>>http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jennings-core-transitive-trust-enrollme >>>>nt- >>>>0 >>>>1.txt >>> Regards, >>> Zach >>> >>> -- >>> Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. >>> http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT >>> Mobile: +358 40 7796297 >>> Twitter: @zach_shelby >>> LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby >>> 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> The information contained in this message may be confidential and >>>legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended >>>solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, >>>you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or >>>reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be >>>unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the >>>sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> . >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>dtls-iot mailing list >>dtls-iot@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > >________________________________ >The information contained in this message may be confidential and >legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely >for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are >hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or >reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the >sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. > _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com Thu Jun 13 17:49:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 279FF21F9B65 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 17:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.832 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.832 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.436, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d09nBDnSZMsF for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 17:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C7221F9B63 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 17:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ATX01277; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 00:49:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 01:49:08 +0100 Received: from SZXEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.163) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 01:49:24 +0100 Received: from szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.152]) by szxeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.163]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 08:49:17 +0800 From: Bert Greevenbosch To: "Kumar, Sandeep" , Don Sturek , "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "paduffy@cisco.com" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Zach Shelby Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB44121F9B80 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:23:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0fvwCEUr0wn8 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF67521F9BA9 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F468BEC6 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:23:06 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXO5MBo9zIkl for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:23:06 +0100 (IST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:1d5c:b21a:982e:7128] (unknown [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:1d5c:b21a:982e:7128]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43C5ABEAA for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:23:06 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51BB0B2B.4020508@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:23:07 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Dtls-iot] BoF co-chair & Wiki page X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:23:35 -0000 Hi, Thanks to Zach Shelby for agreeing to co-chair DICE. Please work with Zach to help him help you achieve a successful BoF. I'm still trying to confirm another co-chair can do this, more on that when I can. Second, I've put details on the BoF wiki page, [1] which is what the IAB and IESG will look at next week when BoFs are approved or not. Please check that and send Zach and I mail if there are minor tweaks needed. If something there should be discussed on the list the please do so. Start a separate thread if it might be a longer discussion. S. [1] https://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki#DICE From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Fri Jun 14 05:48:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D018221F9C76 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:48:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.716 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.716 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.117, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XIfC0-WTnIK1 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EB621F9C77 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 05:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E2BBEC6 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:47:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tmMwxepoNbKI for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:47:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:1d5c:b21a:982e:7128] (unknown [IPv6:2001:770:10:203:1d5c:b21a:982e:7128]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1739DBEAA for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:47:44 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <51BB10F1.8050500@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 13:47:45 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130510 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" References: <51BB0B2B.4020508@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <51BB0B2B.4020508@cs.tcd.ie> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] BoF co-chair & Wiki page X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:48:10 -0000 And following up quickly on that, thanks also to Carsten Bormann for agreeing to co-chair the BoF with Zach. I'm sure Carsten and Zach will do a fine job getting this organised. S. On 06/14/2013 01:23 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks to Zach Shelby for agreeing to co-chair DICE. Please work > with Zach to help him help you achieve a successful BoF. I'm > still trying to confirm another co-chair can do this, more on > that when I can. > > Second, I've put details on the BoF wiki page, [1] which is what > the IAB and IESG will look at next week when BoFs are approved > or not. Please check that and send Zach and I mail if there are > minor tweaks needed. If something there should be discussed on > the list the please do so. Start a separate thread if it might > be a longer discussion. > > S. > > [1] https://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki#DICE > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > From DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil Fri Jun 14 14:04:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143D021F8F5C for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sxvdUQJOWiWY for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stingray.missi.ncsc.mil (stingray.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.50.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350A811E80AE for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.missi.ncsc.mil (odysseus.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.60.172]) by stingray.missi.ncsc.mil with ESMTP id r5EL4jID093401 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CLAVIN.missi.ncsc.mil ([169.254.1.186]) by odysseus.missi.ncsc.mil ([144.51.60.172]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:04:44 -0400 From: "Kemp, David P." To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOaTF9AM8tvO/yQUWj1D9lYD8Alpk1qjYA Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:04:44 +0000 Message-ID: <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC888069F44@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil> References: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77CD43@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77CD43@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [144.51.56.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:04:56 -0000 Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should lay o= ut the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment. The charter implies= that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a constraine= d device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, not mesh commun= ications where one light bulb would need to authenticate another light bulb= . As long as the controller is aware of which devices are no longer trustw= orthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without distributing status inf= ormation about all devices to all devices. In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - multicas= t keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply refuse to key = any "revoked" devices into the multicast group. Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked? People = change names, affiliations, roles. People lose their tokens. But none of = those reasons apply to devices. If an adversary compromises the key of a d= evice, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if the controller but= not other devices are aware of the compromise? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-io= t@ietf.org; Zach Shelby Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Hi Sandeep, -=3D- Quote -=3D- I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. However = before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol to be cap= able of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The I-D submitted ye= sterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to kick off this= discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we surely should th= ink more seriously on revocation. The charter should focus to first fulfill= this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for constrained environments otherw= ise we might end up spending lot of energy designing revocation techniques = without any relevant protocol that would work within a constrained domain. -=3D- /Quote -=3D- I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is over. It = is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly in the futu= re. For sound security, authentication and revocation are essential. Best regards, Bert From sandeep.kumar@philips.com Sat Jun 15 02:53:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F24C421F9C0A for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 02:53:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bh6OiR+rVpsI for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 02:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from db9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (mail-db9lp0249.outbound.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.249]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D1E21F9C06 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 02:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail75-db9-R.bigfish.com (10.174.16.254) by DB9EHSOBE001.bigfish.com (10.174.14.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:09 +0000 Received: from mail75-db9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail75-db9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B9D9208010C; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -28 X-BigFish: VPS-28(zz15d6O9371I542I9251I217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h) Received: from mail75-db9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail75-db9 (MessageSwitch) id 1371289986586636_6998; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB9EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (unknown [10.174.16.231]) by mail75-db9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC1C98004B; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by DB9EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (10.174.14.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:02 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-025.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.5.165]) by 011-DB3MMR1-006.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.56]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:02 +0000 From: "Kumar, Sandeep" To: "Kemp, David P." , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGOhgVVfinMhE+wOtz3Va6RyZklD46AgAE43WCACEM2AIAAHZ+AgAAH2oCAAbKogIAACJoAgAJtETCAAG9jYIABJ+oAgAFTmQCAANSLOQ== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77CD43@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC888069F44@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil> In-Reply-To: <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC888069F44@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [85.150.192.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:53:16 -0000 Agree with Dave. We need a better understanding of when and why revocation = is required before we design a solution for it. We need to think more broad= ly in terms of the (secuirty)key lifecycle management in terms of bootstrap= ping, key-renewal and revocation since solutions will be interdependent on = each other. Atleast we should avoid completely different solutions to the l= ifecycle otherwise they will all together not fit within a constrained devi= ce. Sandeep ________________________________________ From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Ke= mp, David P. [DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil] Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:04 PM To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should lay o= ut the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment. The charter implies= that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a constraine= d device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, not mesh commun= ications where one light bulb would need to authenticate another light bulb= . As long as the controller is aware of which devices are no longer trustw= orthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without distributing status inf= ormation about all devices to all devices. In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - multicas= t keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply refuse to key = any "revoked" devices into the multicast group. Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked? People = change names, affiliations, roles. People lose their tokens. But none of = those reasons apply to devices. If an adversary compromises the key of a d= evice, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if the controller but= not other devices are aware of the compromise? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-io= t@ietf.org; Zach Shelby Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Hi Sandeep, -=3D- Quote -=3D- I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. However = before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol to be cap= able of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The I-D submitted ye= sterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to kick off this= discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we surely should th= ink more seriously on revocation. The charter should focus to first fulfill= this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for constrained environments otherw= ise we might end up spending lot of energy designing revocation techniques = without any relevant protocol that would work within a constrained domain. -=3D- /Quote -=3D- I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is over. It = is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly in the futu= re. For sound security, authentication and revocation are essential. Best regards, Bert _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing list dtls-iot@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Sat Jun 15 09:45:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6094321F9CE2 for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JuH81++IRiUf for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co9ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [207.46.163.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1A421F9C7D for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail84-co9-R.bigfish.com (10.236.132.252) by CO9EHSOBE012.bigfish.com (10.236.130.75) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:31 +0000 Received: from mail84-co9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail84-co9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD33C044F; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -28 X-BigFish: VPS-28(zz15d6O9371I542I9251I217bIdd85kzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h) Received: from mail84-co9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail84-co9 (MessageSwitch) id 1371314729365599_19046; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO9EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (unknown [10.236.132.236]) by mail84-co9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9C4420064; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CO9EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (10.236.130.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:29 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-012.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.96) by 011-DB3MMR1-011.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.11; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:26 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-031.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.1.27]) by 011-DB3MMR1-012.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.011; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:27 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "Kumar, Sandeep" , "Kemp, David P." , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOYKGKhgVVfinMhE+wOtz3Va6RyZkllauAgAPtWICABY0qcIAAHzCAgAAH2YCAAa8M94AADDcAgAHtLACAAGv+gIABJRcAgAFTmQCAANapAIAAcgio Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:44:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77CD43@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC888069F44@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [86.92.83.29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:45:38 -0000 Agree with Dave and Sandeep too.=0A= =0A= In my opinion, the BOF/WG should focus on the immediate security needs, rat= her than aiming to solve all kinds of security problems in IoT at once.=0A= =0A= Building on Sandeep's remark, SOLACE mailing list has been created to look = at device lifecycle management, and "requirements" on device revocation can= first be investigated there.=0A= =0A= cheers=0A= Sye Loong=0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Ku= mar, Sandeep=0A= Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:53 AM=0A= To: Kemp, David P.; dtls-iot@ietf.org=0A= Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss...=0A= =0A= Agree with Dave. We need a better understanding of when and why revocation = is required before we design a solution for it. We need to think more broad= ly in terms of the (secuirty)key lifecycle management in terms of bootstrap= ping, key-renewal and revocation since solutions will be interdependent on = each other. Atleast we should avoid completely different solutions to the l= ifecycle otherwise they will all together not fit within a constrained devi= ce.=0A= =0A= Sandeep=0A= =0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Ke= mp, David P. [DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil]=0A= Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:04 PM=0A= To: dtls-iot@ietf.org=0A= Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss...=0A= =0A= Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should lay o= ut the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment. The charter implies= that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a constraine= d device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, not mesh commun= ications where one light bulb would need to authenticate another light bulb= . As long as the controller is aware of which devices are no longer trustw= orthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without distributing status inf= ormation about all devices to all devices.=0A= =0A= In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - multicas= t keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply refuse to key = any "revoked" devices into the multicast group.=0A= =0A= Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked? People = change names, affiliations, roles. People lose their tokens. But none of = those reasons apply to devices. If an adversary compromises the key of a d= evice, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if the controller but= not other devices are aware of the compromise?=0A= =0A= Dave=0A= =0A= =0A= -----Original Message-----=0A= From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com]=0A= Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM=0A= To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-io= t@ietf.org; Zach Shelby=0A= Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss...=0A= =0A= Hi Sandeep,=0A= =0A= -=3D- Quote -=3D-=0A= I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. However = before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol to be cap= able of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The I-D submitted ye= sterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to kick off this= discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we surely should th= ink more seriously on revocation. The charter should focus to first fulfill= this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for constrained environments otherw= ise we might end up spending lot of energy designing revocation techniques = without any relevant protocol that would work within a constrained domain.= =0A= -=3D- /Quote -=3D-=0A= =0A= I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is over. It = is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly in the futu= re. For sound security, authentication and revocation are essential.=0A= =0A= Best regards,=0A= Bert=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= dtls-iot mailing list=0A= dtls-iot@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot=0A= =0A= ________________________________=0A= The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message.=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= dtls-iot mailing list=0A= dtls-iot@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot=0A= From zach@sensinode.com Sat Jun 15 11:38:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1BE221F9DFD for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:38:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1tSTMJPD3WDr for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auth-smtp.nebula.fi (auth-smtp.nebula.fi [217.30.180.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C16521F9CDE for ; Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (188-67-21-191.bb.dnainternet.fi [188.67.21.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by auth-smtp.nebula.fi (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r5FIcdpD015921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:38:40 +0300 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6F86203E-D41B-4EC2-A777-9C857098340C"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) From: Zach Shelby In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:38:41 +0300 Message-Id: <67B0FAC5-951F-4440-A391-43ED2F75A51A@sensinode.com> References: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77CD43@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC888069F44@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil>, To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: "Kemp, David P." , "Kumar, Sandeep" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 18:38:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6F86203E-D41B-4EC2-A777-9C857098340C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +1=20 We should definitely focus on the low-hanging problems with fairly = obvious solutions to have a successful BOF and first WG charter.=20 Although SOLACE could be the right place to work on revocation issues, I = wouldn't have any problems for folks to discuss and write drafts on = better understanding those issues in DICE (in particular in relation to = DTLS security modes useful in CoAP). But too early to say wether that = would be suitable charter work for us in the future. As Dave pointed out = well, we need to understand what the actual use cases and problems are. = Interestingly enough, the OMA Lightweight M2M standard includes = bootstrapping and provisioning features that could be used to solve some = of the problem already (at least for its chosen device to cloud use = case). =20 Zach =20 On Jun 15, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" = wrote: > Agree with Dave and Sandeep too. >=20 > In my opinion, the BOF/WG should focus on the immediate security = needs, rather than aiming to solve all kinds of security problems in IoT = at once. >=20 > Building on Sandeep's remark, SOLACE mailing list has been created to = look at device lifecycle management, and "requirements" on device = revocation can first be investigated there. >=20 > cheers > Sye Loong > ________________________________________ > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf = of Kumar, Sandeep > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:53 AM > To: Kemp, David P.; dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >=20 > Agree with Dave. We need a better understanding of when and why = revocation is required before we design a solution for it. We need to = think more broadly in terms of the (secuirty)key lifecycle management in = terms of bootstrapping, key-renewal and revocation since solutions will = be interdependent on each other. Atleast we should avoid completely = different solutions to the lifecycle otherwise they will all together = not fit within a constrained device. >=20 > Sandeep >=20 >=20 > ________________________________________ > From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf = of Kemp, David P. [DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil] > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:04 PM > To: dtls-iot@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >=20 > Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should = lay out the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment. The charter = implies that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a = constrained device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, = not mesh communications where one light bulb would need to authenticate = another light bulb. As long as the controller is aware of which devices = are no longer trustworthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without = distributing status information about all devices to all devices. >=20 > In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - = multicast keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply = refuse to key any "revoked" devices into the multicast group. >=20 > Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked? = People change names, affiliations, roles. People lose their tokens. = But none of those reasons apply to devices. If an adversary compromises = the key of a device, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if = the controller but not other devices are aware of the compromise? >=20 > Dave >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM > To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; = dtls-iot@ietf.org; Zach Shelby > Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >=20 > Hi Sandeep, >=20 > -=3D- Quote -=3D- > I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. = However before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS = protocol to be capable of being used for most IoT devices and networks. = The I-D submitted yesterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt = provides input to kick off this discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled = DTLS protocol, we surely should think more seriously on revocation. The = charter should focus to first fulfill this initial aim to make DTLS = suitable for constrained environments otherwise we might end up spending = lot of energy designing revocation techniques without any relevant = protocol that would work within a constrained domain. > -=3D- /Quote -=3D- >=20 > I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is = over. It is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly = in the future. For sound security, authentication and revocation are = essential. >=20 > Best regards, > Bert >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 > ________________________________ > The information contained in this message may be confidential and = legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely = for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are = hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction = of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are = not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail = and destroy all copies of the original message. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot --=20 Zach Shelby, Chief Nerd, Sensinode Ltd. http://www.sensinode.com @SensinodeIoT Mobile: +358 40 7796297 Twitter: @zach_shelby LinkedIn: http://fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby 6LoWPAN Book: http://6lowpan.net --Apple-Mail=_6F86203E-D41B-4EC2-A777-9C857098340C Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMWTCCBWMw ggRLoAMCAQICECoFEeuyI56VQvKTVfGMSkAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6140021F9C0E for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 05:59:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.103 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.103 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.496, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2-J23NkQZ7n8 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 05:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm6.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm6.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.133]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E5B21F9C2B for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 05:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [98.139.44.105] by nm6.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2013 12:58:55 -0000 Received: from [67.195.15.62] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2013 12:58:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jun 2013 12:58:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1371387535; bh=chS9nBIuZGLRh5/snG6GnuCPi4jLk0QYkOybNJQohE0=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=m9j6LgomBIhLVsbk74qTGwk2LV1N0/+dUKmxeUivKZ345bSFvp26dD5CRQAL7yptmBHMxFeM+/A4u9nuHgNOe1Kls2gjESDFRhq7K14TrPc9XwpOX64/9KbOfXYn+WCbXXDp+7nNgGjFk5HcxR+FWUfpWRoJEIs16OGj5G+Zyb8= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 3171.84144.bm@smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: Kzq3yHUVM1lWpE7SzcFJN.YWKao3dGV85JX7tWOzDzjnxCP Z2d3V7La4e3FvucPODZUANlayYEfHvT_gp.jtENzUbxN67yiSAjjVvD1wYtQ yPDtzgG_PCLzfFL3CNzeU882J5xQPn.jdkmu_umB9FGUMjiP.hQqgM3rVK3o 6wSEfvNzmcYVTUPCJ30ICbmvjYEoevFQ2hwVtoAOY1PxD4Up_.p2aYSkQsYF OwGW2Kmd4WkfEnAYSlHBHUKFFjo0n2uD.0XFP5F3KnCrDHG5sK_bfD4e9j3y NsW2n6oHIREIyPKNm56JTwoabMV0N2i.zJWyQ67IseoA47lIVdN2HxPDZsOt iAE0GktJmAUTeANTrRO14Le47qWysW2nDeRU6eC.5NC3_aQfvQODrxYkbGGu jOiNsWgQ8kxVnqtmabMBFPKbwM8tVcSlLbPfxvQuZsL8.OswmsjRebgg0GqU FDmi._CF3h1LBHHZR6437gi793_miRut83WqTLXeYlz0.YcOLLqlBBt90ruR y7ndJ5EyVKKSePzVG0ZX9 X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.5.49.50] (d.sturek@77.69.20.226 with login) by smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2013 05:58:54 -0700 PDT User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 09:59:39 -0700 From: Don Sturek To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "Kumar, Sandeep" , "Kemp, David P." , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:59:00 -0000 I am curious in the use case cited by Dave Kemp how a controller for a light bulb would even know to "simply refuse to key any "revoked" devices...". I think we should use 802.1ar as a guide and look at this as two issues: Authentication and Authorization. For Authentication, once a device is manufactured, we should probably not revoke its identity certificate. There are a bunch of use cases (and 802.1ar and "device identity") that would point to infinite lifetime as a solution. The trickier issue is around Authorization. If I buy a device that turns out to be a clone, why should my device ever end up being unusable to me? I can see that others (service providers, utilties, etc.) might never want to Authorize it for services they provide but I would like that device to continue working in my home with my other local devices. We can certainly ignore this interesting use case in DICE but I do believe the topic will not go away (and I don't know of another group looking into it specifically for IoT applications) Don On 6/15/13 9:44 AM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" wrote: >Agree with Dave and Sandeep too. > >In my opinion, the BOF/WG should focus on the immediate security needs, >rather than aiming to solve all kinds of security problems in IoT at once. > >Building on Sandeep's remark, SOLACE mailing list has been created to >look at device lifecycle management, and "requirements" on device >revocation can first be investigated there. > >cheers >Sye Loong >________________________________________ >From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of >Kumar, Sandeep >Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:53 AM >To: Kemp, David P.; dtls-iot@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > >Agree with Dave. We need a better understanding of when and why >revocation is required before we design a solution for it. We need to >think more broadly in terms of the (secuirty)key lifecycle management in >terms of bootstrapping, key-renewal and revocation since solutions will >be interdependent on each other. Atleast we should avoid completely >different solutions to the lifecycle otherwise they will all together not >fit within a constrained device. > >Sandeep > > >________________________________________ >From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of >Kemp, David P. [DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil] >Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:04 PM >To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > >Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should lay >out the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment. The charter >implies that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a >constrained device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, not >mesh communications where one light bulb would need to authenticate >another light bulb. As long as the controller is aware of which devices >are no longer trustworthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without >distributing status information about all devices to all devices. > >In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - >multicast keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply >refuse to key any "revoked" devices into the multicast group. > >Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked? >People change names, affiliations, roles. People lose their tokens. But >none of those reasons apply to devices. If an adversary compromises the >key of a device, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if the >controller but not other devices are aware of the compromise? > >Dave > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com] >Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM >To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; >dtls-iot@ietf.org; Zach Shelby >Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... > >Hi Sandeep, > >-=- Quote -=- >I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. >However before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol >to be capable of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The I-D >submitted yesterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to >kick off this discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we >surely should think more seriously on revocation. The charter should >focus to first fulfill this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for >constrained environments otherwise we might end up spending lot of energy >designing revocation techniques without any relevant protocol that would >work within a constrained domain. >-=- /Quote -=- > >I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is over. >It is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly in the >future. For sound security, authentication and revocation are essential. > >Best regards, >Bert > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > >________________________________ >The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally >protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the >addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby >notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this >message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the >intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and >destroy all copies of the original message. > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > >_______________________________________________ >dtls-iot mailing list >dtls-iot@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot From DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil Mon Jun 17 09:56:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B48621F9B5F for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:56:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R+D33uidHN-X for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stingray.missi.ncsc.mil (stingray.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.50.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDEBD21F9294 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clavin.missi.ncsc.mil (squid.missi.ncsc.mil [144.51.60.169]) by stingray.missi.ncsc.mil with ESMTP id r5HGuAjb013884; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CLAVIN.missi.ncsc.mil ([169.254.1.133]) by SQUID.missi.ncsc.mil ([fe80::e032:d4c7:c51f:85ec%14]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:56:10 -0400 From: "Kemp, David P." To: Don Sturek , "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "Kumar, Sandeep" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , "Kemp, David P." Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... Thread-Index: AQHOaTF9AM8tvO/yQUWj1D9lYD8Alpk1qjYAgAEitACAAHMSgIAABCCAgALWluA= Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:56:10 +0000 Message-ID: <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC88806E308@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [144.51.56.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:56:20 -0000 Good point Don. Infinite-lifetime manufacturer-provisioned asymmetric private keys are what= I had in mind. By "refuse to key" I meant refuse to negotiate a session k= ey in both the unicast and multicast handshakes, which may or may not invol= ve separation of Authn from Authz. If the device supports a white list of = multiple controllers, it could communicate separately with a utility and a = local controller, and separate Authorization is not needed. If the device = supports only a single controller, then the one it trusts must establish se= ssion keys if at least one source of commands (utility, home, etc) wishes t= o talk to the device. I can understand why a utility might not want to cede control over big load= s to a local administrator, and why the local administrator would not want = to lose control of the building if internet connectivity were lost. Author= ization in that situation could get interesting. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Don Sturek [mailto:d.sturek@att.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 1:00 PM To: Keoh, Sye Loong; Kumar, Sandeep; Kemp, David P.; dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... I am curious in the use case cited by Dave Kemp how a controller for a ligh= t bulb would even know to "simply refuse to key any "revoked" devices...". I think we should use 802.1ar as a guide and look at this as two issues: Authentication and Authorization. For Authentication, once a device is manufactured, we should probably not r= evoke its identity certificate. There are a bunch of use cases (and 802.1a= r and "device identity") that would point to infinite lifetime as a solutio= n. The trickier issue is around Authorization. If I buy a device that turns out to be a clone, why should my device ever end up being unusable to me? I can see that others (service providers, utilties, etc.) might never want to Authorize it for services they provide but I would like that = device to continue working in my home with my other local devices. We can certainly ignore this interesting use case in DICE but I do believe = the topic will not go away (and I don't know of another group looking into = it specifically for IoT applications) Don From rstruik.ext@gmail.com Mon Jun 17 13:40:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E80F21F9E27 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:40:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id peC5ADEAHu5I for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22b.google.com (mail-oa0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C454021F8EB3 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id i7so4032850oag.2 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:40:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=pODIKub5wpdz1yLI8NuS37goR78s4VqLtNcYjXG+XTY=; b=XLrh52IsGO7SXn79YaQxdjH/w2PGjBlt6Fuu02LLoSZM+ArqU96/9C624fpcaX70nU Sqo2g22OgSBuVuKFoekw9ocamKGPh2x0b/1sTCRRuNfM63dozS3R4ILZPNSY1T4okaBu FnGXgQkUUFqYv6n3uvj5AzZIplwH1TGOvoCRYF5BFL7uhFuzqSSATyBWXpsf43dszI32 ZUWDBFF8Eu2xFiPY8vLBapO6vk4FbWxbqcJnqh6z+6+vaMRnBj1Cw1sUZz1ynJnHucZf 6v32xFh0CmLCGOpZbfor5YHu+MHpbbX12EuKi3von0N/keNwYclzK5rjwzlUvnwRhYZb Umuw== X-Received: by 10.60.132.142 with SMTP id ou14mr2947185oeb.49.1371501605257; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.4.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m3sm14603664oex.7.2013.06.17.13.40.02 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Jun 2013 13:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51BF7421.9020705@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:40:01 -0400 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zach Shelby References: <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77BEE8@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com> <46A1DF3F04371240B504290A071B4DB63D77CD43@szxeml558-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <5B1D7E570380A64989D4C069F7D14BC888069F44@clavin.missi.ncsc.mil>, <67B0FAC5-951F-4440-A391-43ED2F75A51A@sensinode.com> In-Reply-To: <67B0FAC5-951F-4440-A391-43ED2F75A51A@sensinode.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000003030209000702080900" Cc: "Kemp, David P." , "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "Kumar, Sandeep" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:40:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000003030209000702080900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +1 For initial chartering purposes, I would also suggest to first focus on DTLS multicast and trimming off some fat off DTLS for coap usage. (Of course, this should not stop people considering the full trust lifecycle, including provisioning, management of authorizations, and support for heterogeneous trust domains.) Best regards, Rene On 6/15/2013 2:38 PM, Zach Shelby wrote: > +1 > > We should definitely focus on the low-hanging problems with fairly obvious solutions to have a successful BOF and first WG charter. > > Although SOLACE could be the right place to work on revocation issues, I wouldn't have any problems for folks to discuss and write drafts on better understanding those issues in DICE (in particular in relation to DTLS security modes useful in CoAP). But too early to say wether that would be suitable charter work for us in the future. As Dave pointed out well, we need to understand what the actual use cases and problems are. Interestingly enough, the OMA Lightweight M2M standard includes bootstrapping and provisioning features that could be used to solve some of the problem already (at least for its chosen device to cloud use case). > > Zach > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" wrote: > >> Agree with Dave and Sandeep too. >> >> In my opinion, the BOF/WG should focus on the immediate security needs, rather than aiming to solve all kinds of security problems in IoT at once. >> >> Building on Sandeep's remark, SOLACE mailing list has been created to look at device lifecycle management, and "requirements" on device revocation can first be investigated there. >> >> cheers >> Sye Loong >> ________________________________________ >> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Kumar, Sandeep >> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:53 AM >> To: Kemp, David P.; dtls-iot@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> Agree with Dave. We need a better understanding of when and why revocation is required before we design a solution for it. We need to think more broadly in terms of the (secuirty)key lifecycle management in terms of bootstrapping, key-renewal and revocation since solutions will be interdependent on each other. Atleast we should avoid completely different solutions to the lifecycle otherwise they will all together not fit within a constrained device. >> >> Sandeep >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Kemp, David P. [DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil] >> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:04 PM >> To: dtls-iot@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should lay out the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment. The charter implies that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a constrained device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, not mesh communications where one light bulb would need to authenticate another light bulb. As long as the controller is aware of which devices are no longer trustworthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without distributing status information about all devices to all devices. >> >> In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - multicast keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply refuse to key any "revoked" devices into the multicast group. >> >> Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked? People change names, affiliations, roles. People lose their tokens. But none of those reasons apply to devices. If an adversary compromises the key of a device, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if the controller but not other devices are aware of the compromise? >> >> Dave >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com] >> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM >> To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org; Zach Shelby >> Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss... >> >> Hi Sandeep, >> >> -=- Quote -=- >> I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. However before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol to be capable of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The I-D submitted yesterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to kick off this discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we surely should think more seriously on revocation. The charter should focus to first fulfill this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for constrained environments otherwise we might end up spending lot of energy designing revocation techniques without any relevant protocol that would work within a constrained domain. >> -=- /Quote -=- >> >> I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is over. It is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly in the future. For sound security, authentication and revocation are essential. >> >> Best regards, >> Bert >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> >> ________________________________ >> The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------000003030209000702080900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+1

For initial chartering purposes, I would also suggest to first focus on DTLS multicast and trimming off some fat off DTLS for coap usage.

(Of course, this should not stop people considering the full trust lifecycle, including provisioning, management of authorizations, and support for heterogeneous trust domains.)

Best regards, Rene

On 6/15/2013 2:38 PM, Zach Shelby wrote:
+1 

We should definitely focus on the low-hanging problems with fairly obvious solutions to have a successful BOF and first WG charter. 

Although SOLACE could be the right place to work on revocation issues, I wouldn't have any problems for folks to discuss and write drafts on better understanding those issues in DICE (in particular in relation to DTLS security modes useful in CoAP). But too early to say wether that would be suitable charter work for us in the future. As Dave pointed out well, we need to understand what the actual use cases and problems are. Interestingly enough, the OMA Lightweight M2M standard includes bootstrapping and provisioning features that could be used to solve some of the problem already (at least for its chosen device to cloud use case).  

Zach  

On Jun 15, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Keoh, Sye Loong" <sye.loong.keoh@philips.com> wrote:


Agree with Dave and Sandeep too.

In my opinion, the BOF/WG should focus on the immediate security needs, rather than aiming to solve all kinds of security problems in IoT at once.

Building on Sandeep's remark, SOLACE mailing list has been created to look at device lifecycle management, and "requirements" on device revocation can first be investigated there.

cheers
Sye Loong
________________________________________
From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Kumar, Sandeep
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:53 AM
To: Kemp, David P.; dtls-iot@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss...

Agree with Dave. We need a better understanding of when and why revocation is required before we design a solution for it. We need to think more broadly in terms of the (secuirty)key lifecycle management in terms of bootstrapping, key-renewal and revocation since solutions will be interdependent on each other. Atleast we should avoid completely different solutions to the lifecycle otherwise they will all together not fit within a constrained device.

Sandeep


________________________________________
From: dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org [dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Kemp, David P. [DPKemp@missi.ncsc.mil]
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:04 PM
To: dtls-iot@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss...

Before devoting much effort to this, a "requirements" document should lay out the use cases for revocation in an IoT environment.  The charter implies that DICE is applicable to hub-and-spoke communications where a constrained device needs to authenticate a controller and vice versa, not mesh communications where one light bulb would need to authenticate another light bulb.  As long as the controller is aware of which devices are no longer trustworthy, it can simply refuse to talk to them without distributing status information about all devices to all devices.

In the multicast scenario there is even less case for revocation - multicast keys are distributed from a single point, which can simply refuse to key any "revoked" devices into the multicast group.

Finally, under what circumstances would an IoT need to be revoked?  People change names, affiliations, roles.  People lose their tokens.  But none of those reasons apply to devices.  If an adversary compromises the key of a device, sensor or actuator, what harm comes to the IoT if the controller but not other devices are aware of the compromise?

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Greevenbosch [mailto:Bert.Greevenbosch@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:49 PM
To: Kumar, Sandeep; Don Sturek; Keoh, Sye Loong; paduffy@cisco.com; dtls-iot@ietf.org; Zach Shelby
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Current dtls-iot charter text - discuss...

Hi Sandeep,

-=- Quote -=-
I agree that revocation is an important and often neglected topic. However before we can discuss revocation, we first need the DTLS protocol to be capable of being used for most IoT devices and networks. The  I-D submitted yesterday, draft-keoh-dtls-profile-iot-00.txt provides input to kick off this discussion. Once we have a IoT profiled DTLS protocol, we surely should think more seriously on revocation. The charter should focus to first fulfill this initial aim to make DTLS suitable for constrained environments otherwise we might end up spending lot of energy designing revocation techniques without any relevant protocol that would work within a constrained domain.
-=- /Quote -=-

I think we should not neglect revocation until the first phase is over. It is an important issue, and neglecting it now may cost us dearly in the future. For sound security, authentication and revocation are essential.

Best regards,
Bert

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