From nobody Mon Oct 5 07:14:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915531ACE27 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 07:14:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j7qoJdfn9LD2 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 07:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 925A11ACE21 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 07:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BYJ72037; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 14:14:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMI403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.75.35) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:14:12 +0100 Received: from SZXEMI501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.73]) by SZXEMI403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.83.65.55]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:13:14 +0800 From: Jayaraghavendran k To: Hannes Tschofenig , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] New Version Notification for draft-jay-tls-psk-identity-extension-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQ+tfkVuz4ICvazUyfTBGkH8jvE55c+geA Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 14:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: <8D925D4C0B78EE41857D407022ECD163BFEE5A94@SZXEMI501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <8D925D4C0B78EE41857D407022ECD163BFEE48F5@SZXEMI501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <560AC2B5.3030707@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <560AC2B5.3030707@gmx.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.213.218] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Raja ashok , Ashutosh prakash Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] New Version Notification for draft-jay-tls-psk-identity-extension-00.txt X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 14:14:20 -0000 Hi Hannes, Thanks for your reply. I am also pursuing it in the TLS WG. Regards, Jay ***************************************************************************= ************ This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, w= hich is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed abov= e. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but n= ot limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination)= by persons other than the intended recipient's) is prohibited. If you rece= ive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immedi= ately and delete it! ***************************************************************************= ************ -----Original Message----- From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net] Sent: 29 September 2015 22:26 To: Jayaraghavendran k; dtls-iot@ietf.org Cc: Raja ashok; Ashutosh prakash Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] New Version Notification for draft-jay-tls-psk-iden= tity-extension-00.txt Hi Jay, judging from the content of the document I unfortunately need to tell you t= hat the DICE working group is the wrong place to discuss such a document. The DICE WG is focused on using DTLS as is (without making extensions and m= odifications). The TLS group is the right place to discuss your draft. Ciao Hannes On 09/29/2015 05:21 PM, Jayaraghavendran k wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > A new TLS extension draft for optimizing TLS/DTLS handshake when PSK is u= sed has been submitted to the TLS WG. This extension allows the Client Hell= o & Server Hello messages to negotiate the PSK Identity to be used thereby = reducing the handshake latency to 1 RTT. >=20 > Requesting your views and comments on the same as it is useful for DTLS u= sage in IoT. > =20 > Thanks! > =20 > Regards, > Jay >=20 > ********************************************************************** > ***************** This e-mail and attachments contain confidential=20 > information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity = whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein = in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, rep= roduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's= ) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sen= der by phone or email immediately and delete it! > ********************************************************************** > ***************** >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: 29 September 2015 02:05 > To: Jayaraghavendran k; Jayaraghavendran k; Raja ashok; Raja ashok > Subject: New Version Notification for=20 > draft-jay-tls-psk-identity-extension-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-jay-tls-psk-identity-extension-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Jayaraghavendran K and posted to the I= ETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-jay-tls-psk-identity-extension > Revision: 00 > Title: TLS/DTLS PSK Identity Extension > Document date: 2015-09-28 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 10 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jay-tls-psk-id= entity-extension-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jay-tls-psk-identi= ty-extension/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jay-tls-psk-identity-ex= tension-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > Pre-Shared Key (PSK) based Key Exchange Mechanism is primarily used > in constrained environments where resource intensive Asymmetric > Cryptography cannot be used. In the Internet of Things (IoT) > deployments, constrained devices are commonly used for collecting > data via sensors for use in home automation, smart energy etc. In > this context, DTLS is being considered as the primary protocol for > communication security at the application layer and in some cases, it > is also being considered for network access authentication. >=20 > This document provides a specification for a new extension for > Optimizing DTLS and TLS Handshake when the Pre-Shared Key (PSK) based > Key Exchange is used. This extension is aimed at reducing the number > of messages exchanged and the RTT of the TLS & DTLS Handshakes. >=20 >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 From nobody Sat Oct 10 05:05:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 926E41B35B3; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:05:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Gq1ze7KfmkN; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19AD81B35B0; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 05:05:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9AC5kGi021260; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:05:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nar.local (p5DC7F6AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.246.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nY4jQ0ytlz4pK3; Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:05:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5618FF18.8050909@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 14:05:44 +0200 From: Carsten Bormann User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.5 (Macintosh/20150923) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org, core@ietf.org, ace@ietf.org, cose@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Dtls-iot] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF94, "final" version X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 12:05:51 -0000 Below is the "final" version of my usual eclectic condensed agenda. (Sorry for missing out on the draft version, but not much has changed.) Again, I have filled in the T2TRG Sat/Sun meeting, which is waiting for its room assignment; the T2TRG summary meeting this time is on Wed morning (and we have 1 h, which should be enough for a summary). Remember that there is still some potential for changes. All times are JST (UTC+0900) (the browser timezone function is not yet reinstated on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for those who want to listen from remote). Grüße, Carsten SATURDAY, October 31, 2015 0900-1830 T2TRG - Room TBD 0900-2100 IETF Hackathon - Room 315 0900-1830 RAIM Workshop - Room 303 SUNDAY, November 1, 2015 0900-1600 T2TRG - Room TBD 0900-1800 IETF Hackathon - Room 315 1600-1700 Newcomers' Meet and Greet (open to Newcomers, WG chairs and Mentors only) - InterContinental Bay View Room 1600-1630 CBOR - Room 301 1700-1900 Welcome Reception - InterContinental Ballroom MONDAY, November 2, 2015 0900-1130 Morning Session I Rm 501 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Rm 301 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Rm 302 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments WG 1300-1500 Afternoon Session I Rm 501 ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Rm 304 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG Rm 303 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1520-1650 Afternoon Session II Rm 302 INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery WG Rm 501 TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG 1710-1910 Afternoon Session III Rm 502 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Rm 501 RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Rm 302 SEC tokbind Token Binding WG TUESDAY, November 3, 2015 0900-1130 Morning Session I Rm 301 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 502 INT homenet Home Networking WG 1300-1500 Afternoon Session I 411/412 ART webpush Web-Based Push Notifications WG 1520-1650 Afternoon Session II Rm 303 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG Rm 413 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG Rm 304 TSV taps Transport Services WG 1710-1840 Afternoon Session III 411/412 SEC openpgp Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy WG WEDNESDAY, November 4, 2015 0900-1130 Morning Session I Rm 501 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 302 IRTF*** t2trg Proposed Thing-to-Thing Research Group - 1030 - 1130 Rm 303 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG 1300-1500 Afternoon Session I Rm 501 TSV tcpinc TCP Increased Security WG THURSDAY, November 5, 2015 0900-1130 Morning Session I Rm 303 ART ice Interactive Connectivity Establishment WG Rm 501 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of Resource-constrained Nodes WG 1300-1500 Afternoon Session I Rm 413 ART geojson Geographic JSON WG Rm 502 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting Rm 302 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1520-1720 Afternoon Session II Rm 303 INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE 802.15.4e WG Rm 501 OPS opsarea Operations & Management Area Open Meeting - Combined with OPSAWG Rm 301 SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1740-1840 Afternoon Session III Rm 304 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 302 RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG Rm 501 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG FRIDAY, November 6, 2015 0900-1130 Morning Session I Rm 302 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG 411/412 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 304 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management Environment WG Rm 501 TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG All day ETSI 6lo Plugtest SATURDAY, November 7, 2015 All day ETSI 6lo Plugtest SUNDAY, November 8, 2015 All day ETSI 6lo Plugtest From nobody Wed Oct 14 06:07:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731971A6F58 for ; 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Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:07:20 +0200 Received: from [193.10.66.141] (marco-desktop.sics.se [193.10.66.141]) by norm.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5722F3E for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:07:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <561E5381.8000408@sics.se> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:07:13 +0200 From: Marco Tiloca User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dtls-iot@ietf.org References: <20151014125711.4613.34719.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151014125711.4613.34719.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20151014125711.4613.34719.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iVLpn3UWutVv188SRa7NJ09BKKA6I4rAK" X-Bayes-Prob: 0.005 (Score 0, tokens from: outbound, outbound-sics-se:default, sics-se:default, base:default, @@RPTN) X-p0f-Info: os=Linux 2.2.x-3.x, link=Ethernet or modem X-CanIt-Geo: ip=193.10.66.141; country=SE; latitude=59.3294; longitude=18.0686; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=59.3294,18.0686&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: outbound-sics-se:outbound (inherits from outbound-sics-se:default, sics-se:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 09Pt17kWF - 2871e0ed3451 - 20151014 X-Antispam-Training-Forget: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09Pt17kWF&m=2871e0ed3451&t=20151014&c=f X-Antispam-Training-Nonspam: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09Pt17kWF&m=2871e0ed3451&t=20151014&c=n X-Antispam-Training-Phish: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09Pt17kWF&m=2871e0ed3451&t=20151014&c=p X-Antispam-Training-Spam: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09Pt17kWF&m=2871e0ed3451&t=20151014&c=s X-CanIt-Archive-Cluster: PfMRe/vJWMiXwM2YIH5BVExnUnw Received-SPF: neutral (e-mailfilter01.sunet.se: 193.10.66.141 is neither permitted nor denied by domain marco@sics.se) receiver=e-mailfilter01.sunet.se; client-ip=193.10.66.141; envelope-from=; helo=norm.sics.se; identity=mailfrom X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.36.171.201 Archived-At: Subject: [Dtls-iot] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00.txt X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:07:25 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iVLpn3UWutVv188SRa7NJ09BKKA6I4rAK Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050904090308020709080809" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050904090308020709080809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello DICE, We have submitted a new draft covering an improved adaptation of DTLS to support secure multicast communication. This work is explicitly related to the second task in charter-ietf-dice-01. Following the discussions around past proposals [I-D.keoh-dice-multicast-security-08][I-D.kumar-dice-multicast-security-0= 0], this draft overcomes the limitations of previous approaches by: 1) highlighting and motivating relevant use cases with secure multicast communication; 2) protecting multicast request messages as well as related unicast response messages; 3) providing source or group authentication of both group request messages and group response messages; 4) avoiding any DTLS handshake to enable secure multicast communication. We would sincerely appreciate any comment on the draft. Best regards, /Marco -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00.txt Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:57:11 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Shahid Raza , Sandeep Kumar , Marco Tiloca , Sandeep S. Kumar , Kirill Nikitin A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm Revision: 00 Title: Secure Two-Way DTLS-Based Group Communication in the IoT Document date: 2015-10-14 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 35 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-dice-se= cure-groupcomm-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-dice-secure= -groupcomm/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-grou= pcomm-00 Abstract: CoAP has emerged as the de-facto IoT standard for communication involving resource-constrained devices composing Low-power and Lossy Networks (LLNs). CoAP mandates the adoption of the DTLS protocol to secure unicast communication. However, in several IoT application scenarios involving a group of multiple devices, the adoption of CoAP multicast communication through IPv6 results in a number of advantages, especially in terms of performance and scalability. Yet, CoAP does not specify how to secure multicast group communication in an interoperable way. This draft presents a method to secure communication in a multicast group, through an adaptation of the DTLS record layer. In particular, group members rely on the same group keying material in order to secure both request messages sent via multicast and possible unicast messages sent as response. Since the group keying material is provided upon joining the group, all group members are not required to perform any DTLS handshake with each other. The proposed method makes it possible to provide either group authentication or source authentication of secured messages. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------050904090308020709080809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hello DICE,

We have submitted a new draft covering an improved adaptation of DTLS
to support secure multicast communication. This work is
explicitly related to the second task in charter-ietf-dice-01.

Following the discussions around past proposals
[I-D.keoh-dice-multicast-security-08][I-D.kumar-dice-multicast-security-0=
0],
this draft overcomes the limitations of previous approaches by:

1) highlighting and motivating relevant use cases with secure multicast
communication;
2) protecting multicast request messages as well as related unicast
response messages;
3) providing source or group authentication of both group request
messages and group response messages;
4) avoiding any DTLS handshake to enable secure multicast communication.


We would sincerely appreciate any comment on the draft.

Best regards,
/Marco

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Sub= ject: New Version Notification for draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00.txt
Dat= e: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:57:11 -0700
Fro= m: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To:= Shahid Raza <shahid@sics.se>, Sandeep Kumar <sandeep.kumar@philips.com>, Marco Tiloca <marco@sics.se>, Sandeep S. Kumar <sandeep.kumar@philips.com>, Kirill Nikitin <kirill.nikitin@epfl.ch> 


A new version of I-D, draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00.tx=
t
has been successfully submitted by Marco Tiloca and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm
Revision:	00
Title:		Secure Two-Way DTLS-Based Group Communication in the IoT
Document date:	2015-10-14
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		35
URL:            https:/=
/www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00.txt
Status:         https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00


Abstract:
   CoAP has emerged as the de-facto IoT standard for communication
   involving resource-constrained devices composing Low-power and Lossy
   Networks (LLNs). CoAP mandates the adoption of the DTLS protocol to
   secure unicast communication. However, in several IoT application
   scenarios involving a group of multiple devices, the adoption of CoAP
   multicast communication through IPv6 results in a number of
   advantages, especially in terms of performance and scalability. Yet,
   CoAP does not specify how to secure multicast group communication in
   an interoperable way. This draft presents a method to secure
   communication in a multicast group, through an adaptation of the DTLS
   record layer. In particular, group members rely on the same group
   keying material in order to secure both request messages sent via
   multicast and possible unicast messages sent as response. Since the
   group keying material is provided upon joining the group, all group
   members are not required to perform any DTLS handshake with each
   other. The proposed method makes it possible to provide either group
   authentication or source authentication of secured messages.

                                                                         =
        =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--------------050904090308020709080809-- --iVLpn3UWutVv188SRa7NJ09BKKA6I4rAK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJWHlOIAAoJEO4mZLQOWNpD0W0H+wXgYojpyWDJzFBN+HW7k+QA 7O+jNWDgSrv5SGpBEF68tHGDdd4VnbJjZI2caCoByIsCdkqhOlDYSyPFiww69fz+ xlKbhB0sQRdv6/EzZz68hhlhxvEcSb6f8qfh/MjmAmBfGxpeFZOel1mBucDTCujV wRtT7NttMXODqsYpLfTAKSH8oAR2VERunHdSultYN+2yWp36Ru1+JpZOMCtfHBDB qqLczmJ7XegicMTBuapHY2L9ANr+SKaV1/L3zsSM3TBYdZQELeAfPO55U+fuQB/2 LU0uKWZ9K2wAf1t2UiFtHd/hgkBQYjwgGqJ9RpPkM3YrO3T06VrNna0zmm68R/Q= =0jj5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iVLpn3UWutVv188SRa7NJ09BKKA6I4rAK-- From nobody Sun Oct 18 23:40:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4B21A1EFE; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 23:40:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019064006.28061.66968.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 23:40:06 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: [Dtls-iot] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dice-profile-17.txt X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 06:40:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DTLS In Constrained Environments Working Group of the IETF. Title : TLS/DTLS Profiles for the Internet of Things Authors : Hannes Tschofenig Thomas Fossati Filename : draft-ietf-dice-profile-17.txt Pages : 59 Date : 2015-10-18 Abstract: A common design pattern in Internet of Things (IoT) deployments is the use of a constrained device that collects data via sensors or controls actuators for use in home automation, industrial control systems, smart cities and other IoT deployments. This document defines a Transport Layer Security (TLS) and Datagram TLS (DTLS) 1.2 profile that offers communications security for this data exchange thereby preventing eavesdropping, tampering, and message forgery. The lack of communication security is a common vulnerability in Internet of Things products that can easily be solved by using these well-researched and widely deployed Internet security protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dice-profile-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dice-profile-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 19 02:53:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD021A8849 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:53:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l_AJeNpJoia8 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8C8A1A87E7 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id E824F3C46F517; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:53:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t9J9rocm011057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:53:51 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA08.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.4.234]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:53:50 +0200 From: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , Barry Leiba , Spencer Dawkins Thread-Topic: Latest dice profile draft Thread-Index: AQHRClQNYrWNoM+oSkC+jWnIFkzTFw== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:53:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.40] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D24A79AC37ACCthomasfossatialcatellucentcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Dtls-iot] Latest dice profile draft X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:53:57 -0000 --_000_D24A79AC37ACCthomasfossatialcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everybody, We think we've addressed all IESG comments: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#ben-campbe= ll https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#spencer-da= wkins https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#barry-leib= a (thank you Ben, Spencer and Barry), and submitted a new version of the pro= file draft. Please, check the diff from =9616 at https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddr= aft-ietf-dice-profile-17 This is the version that will be sent to the RFC editor. Cheers and thanks very much to all of you for the great work, Thomas & Hannes. --_000_D24A79AC37ACCthomasfossatialcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everybody,

We think we've addressed all IESG comments:


(thank you Ben, Spencer and Barry),  and submitted a new version = of the profile draft.


This is the version that will be sent to the RFC editor.

Cheers and thanks very much to all of you for the great work,

Thomas & Hannes.
--_000_D24A79AC37ACCthomasfossatialcatellucentcom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 07:35:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103CB1A90FE for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:35:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3NmQinvsX9r for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x230.google.com (mail-vk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B251E1A9142 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vkex70 with SMTP id x70so98059631vke.3 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:35:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tuHRx9dq+/Ziu+xTQyJFrhrZBhQbJLUf9dP7W+d2Vbo=; b=hdz4/cwuXQlDSH/BsE6ArsTvGWqAaccrjtPQyWNXTFb8peCqUAxWwBPO7hbuik/rkS u9DdO6o3OgmZZcjVbjrJ7d0FNYOwEU7yc6NX2CzzkPSfnOXgCKRAD67kw2lLbcDSMGSK Dizb1X1ZSBRmlXZuq6b//gDO7qTd7G9vpvUYzfaZ9cnCAsb6tIz5jiGkOAc86igs9NCK fcrIN7stC/LAMv85/b7jVRrBk+aM4eAC+OqUGxFyw2h2XqfR6Hkwvd+2xA6kLTW6w0lN 1e49bcbboPQizACgr4hAX1deSwiXgLyD59s7tHl1XmRWhZ0U08PUAXzRXqoDfQGWtgD/ ll3A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.49.67 with SMTP id x64mr20406120vkx.133.1445265302903; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.31.54.65 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:35:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:35:02 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: KHyAy1NLawRqLWHlAKYXCylZQxg Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Spencer Dawkins Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Latest dice profile draft X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:35:05 -0000 That looks good, guys, and thanks for addressing all my comments! Barry On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:53 AM, FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas) wrote: > Hi everybody, > > We think we've addressed all IESG comments: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#ben-camp= bell > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#spencer-= dawkins > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#barry-le= iba > > (thank you Ben, Spencer and Barry), and submitted a new version of the > profile draft. > > Please, check the diff from =E2=80=9316 at > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dice-profile-17 > > This is the version that will be sent to the RFC editor. > > Cheers and thanks very much to all of you for the great work, > > Thomas & Hannes. From nobody Mon Oct 19 08:17:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietf.org Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC0D1AC3FD; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019151703.22629.93584.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:17:03 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: zach.shelby@arm.com, dtls-iot@ietf.org, dice-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , draft-ietf-dice-profile@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Subject: [Dtls-iot] Protocol Action: 'TLS/DTLS Profiles for the Internet of Things' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-dice-profile-17.txt) X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:17:04 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'TLS/DTLS Profiles for the Internet of Things' (draft-ietf-dice-profile-17.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the DTLS In Constrained Environments Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Stephen Farrell and Kathleen Moriarty. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ Technical Summary A common design pattern in Internet of Things (IoT) deployments is the use of a constrained device that collects data via sensor or controls actuators for use in home automation, industrial control systems, smart cities and other IoT deployments. This document defines a Transport Layer Security (TLS) and Datagram TLS (DTLS) 1.2 profile that offers communications security for this data exchange thereby preventing eavesdropping, tampering, and message forgery. The lack of communication security is a common vulnerability in Internet of Things products that can easily be solved by using these well-researched and widely deployed Internet security protocols. Working Group Summary There was no controversy about this document. Document Quality The document has been reviewed by various DICE working group participants. Due to the nature of the document additional review from the security community is essential. Various implementations of embedded TLS stacks exist on the market (open source as well as closed source implementations) that implement a subset of the functionality defined in the specification. A 2nd IETF LC for a downref to RFC7251 may happen if someone complains. I'm arguing it's not needed as RFC7252 already has 7251 as a normative reference and CCM is in any case well accepted by the community. If some AD wants to do the process Personnel Zach Shelby is the document shepherd, Stephen Farrell is the sometimes-responsible AD. From nobody Mon Oct 19 15:31:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BA1B2BA2 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:31:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ymaR6y3kl9kA for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x234.google.com (mail-vk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 792301B2D68 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vkat63 with SMTP id t63so113393331vka.1 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:31:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=YHMpc6QkID4FxoxUsFpEppQgd7uwMWnC/1Q6DV8/2so=; b=cLGKqHDNlMoQJQO5ZbnNg4G2F2aoTmMFir0qCR4fRuNU5si6AbesIEDqUIXBbjRqTf 4uxsSiuB6jB94VoolaifhVTv0Jmlomx3k08TPusYqCZw9ei9Uf4KszXAHnfPhfEOiBxi xz7JThV3LtubrWFi188C2O+M5r9/yVEXWo8Z+flSAiZZj3fyxE+Ci3+tckk0BhUJkeeb NTyf5WeB8m0CjrRTDeYF4jPlhPa8wAJjXlHI0lEqA4R3ZkPkxLgkz95/zoidOwobnQhJ J7xEbbAFnFzY7iWSy21FDXtYuJ6arHzlA+Q7DtgJhPEs+sSEDlSb0Jtrzl6U0GLpv7Yl ZZXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.8.77 with SMTP id 74mr19149753vki.67.1445293871634; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.54.8 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:31:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:31:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF To: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1145507ed0a36305227cb39e Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , Barry Leiba , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Latest dice profile draft X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:31:18 -0000 --001a1145507ed0a36305227cb39e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Thomas, On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:53 AM, FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas) < thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > Hi everybody, > > We think we've addressed all IESG comments: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#ben-camp= bell > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#spencer-= dawkins > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#barry-le= iba > > (thank you Ben, Spencer and Barry), and submitted a new version of the > profile draft. > > Please, check the diff from =E2=80=9316 at > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dice-profile-17 > I'm happy, but just to make sure you didn't break anything making me happy ... I asked about providing a reference for "constant time" in this text: For use with this profile the PSK identities SHOULD NOT assume a structured format (such as domain names, Distinguished Names, or IP addresses) and a constant time bit-by-bit comparison operation MUST be used by the server for any operation related to the PSK identity. The -17 corresponding text substituted "byte-by-byte" for "bit-by-bit", which I don't have an opinion about, but "constant time" simply disappeared. Was that intentional? Thanks, Spencer > This is the version that will be sent to the RFC editor. > > Cheers and thanks very much to *all* of you for the great work, > > Thomas & Hannes. > --001a1145507ed0a36305227cb39e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Thomas,

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:53 AM, FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas) <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
Hi everybody,

We think we've addressed all IESG comments:


(thank you Ben, Spencer and Barry), =C2=A0and submitted a new version = of the profile draft.

Please, check the diff from =E2=80=9316 at=C2=A0http= s://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-dice-profile-17
<= /blockquote>

I'm happy, but just to make sure you di= dn't break anything making me happy ...

I aske= d about providing a reference for "constant time" in this text:

   For use with this pr=
ofile the PSK identities
   SHOULD NOT assume a structured format (such as domain names,
   Distinguished Names, or IP addresses) and a constant time bit-by-bit
   comparison operation MUST be used by the server for any operation
   related to the PSK identity.

The -17 corr= esponding text substituted "byte-by-byte" for "bit-by-bit&qu= ot;, which I don't have an opinion about, but "constant time"= simply disappeared.=C2=A0

Was that intentional?= =C2=A0

Thanks,

Spencer
=C2=A0
This is t= he version that will be sent to the RFC editor.

Cheers and thanks very much to all of you for the great work,

Thomas & Hannes.

--001a1145507ed0a36305227cb39e-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 21:18:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 165041B2AA8 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S_cZDnQTUphq for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0FB01B2AA4 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id D4018E4EAA4CB; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:18:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t9K4I6Kp023025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:18:06 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA08.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.4.234]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:18:06 +0200 From: "FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas)" To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Thread-Topic: Latest dice profile draft Thread-Index: AQHRClQNYrWNoM+oSkC+jWnIFkzTF55zRYaAgABxroA= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:18:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D24B7AAE37BC3thomasfossatialcatellucentcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , Barry Leiba , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] Latest dice profile draft X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:18:12 -0000 --_000_D24B7AAE37BC3thomasfossatialcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Spencer, There are no timing side-channel concerns here =97 it's purely an interop a= ffair =97 so we removed the superfluous "constant time" requirement. In fact, thanks for asking the right question :-) From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF > Date: Monday, 19 October 2015 23:31 To: Thomas Fossati > Cc: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" >, Ben Campbell = >, Barry Leiba > Subject: Re: Latest dice profile draft Hi, Thomas, On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:53 AM, FOSSATI, Thomas (Thomas) > wrote: Hi everybody, We think we've addressed all IESG comments: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#ben-campbe= ll https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#spencer-da= wkins https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dice-profile/ballot/#barry-leib= a (thank you Ben, Spencer and Barry), and submitted a new version of the pro= file draft. Please, check the diff from =9616 at https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddr= aft-ietf-dice-profile-17 I'm happy, but just to make sure you didn't break anything making me happy = ... I asked about providing a reference for "constant time" in this text: For use with this profile the PSK identities SHOULD NOT assume a structured format (such as domain names, Distinguished Names, or IP addresses) and a constant time bit-by-bit comparison operation MUST be used by the server for any operation related to the PSK identity. The -17 corresponding text substituted "byte-by-byte" for "bit-by-bit", whi= ch I don't have an opinion about, but "constant time" simply disappeared. Was that intentional? Thanks, Spencer This is the version that will be sent to the RFC editor. Cheers and thanks very much to all of you for the great work, Thomas & Hannes. --_000_D24B7AAE37BC3thomasfossatialcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Spencer,

There are no timing side-channel concerns here =97 it's purely an inte= rop affair =97 so we removed the superfluous "constant time" requ= irement.

In fact, thanks for asking the right question :-)

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <<= a href=3D"mailto:spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com">spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.c= om>
Date: Monday, 19 October 2015 23:31=
To: Thomas Fossati <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com<= /a>>
Cc: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" <dtls-iot@ietf.org>, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Subject: Re: Latest dice profile dr= aft

Hi, Thomas,

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:53 AM, FOSSATI, Thomas= (Thomas) <thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

I'm happy, but just to make sure you didn't break anything making me h= appy ...

I asked about providing a reference for "constant time" in t= his text:

   For use with this profile the PSK identities
   SHOULD NOT assume a structured format (such as domain names,
   Distinguished Names, or IP addresses) and a constant time bit-by-bit
   comparison operation MUST be used by the server for any operation
   related to the PSK identity.

The -17 corresponding text substituted "byte-by-byte" for &q= uot;bit-by-bit", which I don't have an opinion about, but "consta= nt time" simply disappeared. 

Was that intentional? 

Thanks,

Spencer
 
This is the version that will be sent to the RFC editor.

Cheers and thanks very much to all of you for the great work,

Thomas & Hannes.

 --_000_D24B7AAE37BC3thomasfossatialcatellucentcom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 08:36:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 936D71B3465 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:36:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqYDmnimwYkH for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74D9A1B3482 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49694BDCB for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:35:51 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awGA4B-YY4ST for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:35:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.196.204.142] (36-194.icannmeeting.org [199.91.194.36]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5051BE49 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:35:47 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1445355348; bh=TAg3izg2vItVARLImiQOTgQyMs59zycvQnrHHOBxik8=; h=From:Subject:To:Date:From; b=ApTlV9dovg3mXJ31K+uYXoHUQDCv+F7rspvuPo3SWe9gQAaF5YiLITeCZ/b7yPCUt V0QuaJmu+6feLjPBFExD+ubuKQj2wcz2gTbEYEfq0q//2ng8lpdQ3ERR43BiAm51bU jh1lTveuVZYXUDnbGcMwRZURO9b+/FVONcMdJVTc= From: Stephen Farrell To: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:35:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:36:48 -0000 Hi all, Congratulations to all involved in getting the DTLS profile document done and through the process. Now that that's done, and given that the originally planned work on group communication hasn't progressed as planned (due to us discovering that it was trickier than we initially thought), I think it's time for the WG to evaluate whether it's time to declare victory and close the WG, or if there's some other work to be done. In chatting with the chairs, we figured that perhaps now is time to declare victory, but of course that's a topic to talk about here, so please send your thoughts on the topic to the list in the next week or two and the chairs and I will see where we think things are at. Cheers and well done again, Stephen, Dorothy ad Zach. PS: The list can remain open even if we do end up closing the working group if that's useful. From nobody Tue Oct 20 08:49:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387591AC3F5 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:49:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSteUapfri_d for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BD191AC3C4 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.131.140] ([80.92.122.73]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MXDo1-1a0rOj1KwX-00WHJD; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:49:24 +0200 To: Stephen Farrell , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" References: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> From: Hannes Tschofenig Openpgp: id=071A97A9ECBADCA8E31E678554D9CEEF4D776BC9 Message-ID: <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:48:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VwpunfxCEsDiLRBSs5Qe7NaWISgj0pAAx" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:/t8dchMbEhhLxu16IaY1ZCFMLC6bLxu3J2OMi9ojhZ1pT+c9Ddp a0drMRBl8LXJSEtYOe3P4LZitUQARwztEdGH1bZdV+4SumisC8NlGfkA4lspw1NFvzrIyXf v0qTcMJ5eDt30J3a2IHFhVqAHQvXpiBRpfwNXjC87lpa1Qz1zVpqNwsG1txrv7jYOvYQ0dO zp9bSRapdSD/6scDm9ibw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:1bpffKzu3x0=:4dndK64eWUDKLmTl24W7j8 uUiFHrMLb4u8eQg2hha6sLP91lJMHLZc4Hkpt3IRRJEqAhjya+lqrW9Qk5/cn7oRYHnReOqDA iCnH1SPN4o/YiuPtZUjkWWzkSpoUnMvXKOeIlNhK5SlV5rmw4Yv2fJ8fUx6wBUXCNvOAH0pb0 qM3ux+6m+e0b2eh27XGRxndB1HqIyWFv32sfEgPyJap8dIgEBUpCpr4ES0Cj0QZJ9jG2aiDT/ /s2fMahs1FN61/NlYuVLsb1ecizei6R/00Wsx3d7wB9Cm4DV3+spadW8PGel25X+MlPfEpmp+ d1AbagDgMINRWZJ2sn6x3aQoDMb2HQRK0XkSYPWcmlz67WCt8OncTqnx4ZK2jxfdceyx01vl9 WwlKv+URf1yTyhirrvdMSYsiaLT5imVMYQgbU6jBV0oSIklzP83DOBac2lahQo2gI+b0hNzpl d3dhbGFjRd7IadFqqr99F0H08lyE3/cHH/0weO7On/Xs/XHXEcw7sERTFO2f177vRG6aW7AhM Q3WFNHQEDftLz9sMkYIycxFO344a70SposBij8cBl4g9wmcaxgAy8dx/JKc9ZM8b7t/o+kGoF wIWx3CGBXDrh9C3ZKYhajJHd/w5R0SHWQyLSBQWrash/ghOiTV8Us3TFEbp9q6Kvk9Ydty+zE l8c86RcZ7274HP5wLcNUrK7kZNoNMk+fkgIsqOvIV7t04WVaKKbdjNW2bq9+5F+GDkQ+8Ucrl gIRngsrBLWUKGcghAKWcjgzc1H6ViTMHEv/5Wf19MGaMnlIVc4oacDAoujc= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:49:28 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --VwpunfxCEsDiLRBSs5Qe7NaWISgj0pAAx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE working group instead. It is my impression that the train for adding multicast security to DTLS has left the station already a while ago and folks are in the meanwhile looking at an application layer security solution instea= d. On top of that there are far too few (security) people around so that the overlap between ACE and DICE is almost 100% anyway. Those who are interested group security are even a small subset of the security folks in general (let alone those who have domain expertise in, for example, the lighting domain). Ciao Hannes On 10/20/2015 05:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Congratulations to all involved in getting the DTLS profile > document done and through the process. >=20 > Now that that's done, and given that the originally planned > work on group communication hasn't progressed as planned (due > to us discovering that it was trickier than we initially > thought), I think it's time for the WG to evaluate whether > it's time to declare victory and close the WG, or if there's > some other work to be done. >=20 > In chatting with the chairs, we figured that perhaps now is > time to declare victory, but of course that's a topic to talk > about here, so please send your thoughts on the topic to the > list in the next week or two and the chairs and I will see > where we think things are at. >=20 > Cheers and well done again, > Stephen, Dorothy ad Zach. >=20 > PS: The list can remain open even if we do end up closing > the working group if that's useful. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 --VwpunfxCEsDiLRBSs5Qe7NaWISgj0pAAx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWJmJLAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtWNcIAI1cq2+iP2+1MT3+96tZEEt6 n0JO2I4tSNKntwFWpZs4uk4ZCliTPAGk5poe3okA589ZRs3rvgb+X4iyppmlpOKo U7onbS/38R5+T5Ph704wUQEWGWQwWh7PUHKXaIimxqngP+jNZmb1kNOfTCLU8yWy e1L2/UzhgDmIESapiKMeHTFgZ/X+AVgbkBBF00w1aovqnhN+oUjeK57pSncNtJUt 1itBQvEKDr3FPM6NHVTCx29D98oKcrIracpBJx7g3f8PR4r/m2HzmjzQetktpv9h 9JAfodpRHJqAa1+05kAl61gcUOl2YEEtyxszDZyZ5iyywc3RoCsYhYuhjFv/LoQ= =VlHW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VwpunfxCEsDiLRBSs5Qe7NaWISgj0pAAx-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 08:58:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55851A9253 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:58:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rGDf78S9I69G for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-143.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-143.mimecast.com [146.101.78.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39CAE1A92FC for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emea-cam-gw2.Emea.Arm.com (fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com [217.140.96.140]) (Using TLS) by eu-smtp-1.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-37-0gpTTvPSSZO1hawn5f5KfQ-1; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:58:07 +0100 Received: from GB-CAM-EXCAS2.Emea.Arm.com (10.1.106.66) by emea-cam-gw2.Emea.Arm.com (10.1.105.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:58:07 +0100 Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.1.2.79) by nebula.arm.com (10.1.106.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:58:06 +0100 Received: from HE1PR08MB0571.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.161.121.11) by HE1PR08MB0572.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.161.121.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.300.14; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:58:05 +0000 Received: from HE1PR08MB0571.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.121.11]) by HE1PR08MB0571.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.121.11]) with mapi id 15.01.0300.010; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:58:05 +0000 From: Zach Shelby To: Hannes Tschofenig Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory? Thread-Index: AQHRC00u7OdomwedZUqpwjgiyUXL6Z50hukAgAACsIA= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:58:05 +0000 Message-ID: <866AAD58-17FA-46B1-B179-C38A5348C69D@arm.com> References: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3094) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [50.141.34.198] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR08MB0572; 5:3JUBRSL5hlg+TQwp/gAsTKgF13sLpdtNUjyXCc2A5CmQGKj0rvBs5E/QEMkDyzdYdCHuq0RXcfesk74xhx2DjHrlbf+PzczM1wwEQR1LJl3SvJSFlEyqUCQk6Rr3gqQdiYQonnF2Aq++WBEiGjlUKA==; 24:3QfTqH6ONKQA+TY/wspo6fkgOpStl2dXiWcI3JDkbuf0nqy4q4MyPaA/qOaVX4nsU1VnoTzJoETfH7+B1eEv1Z6LnA7NLwGixOX2kKq8mV4=; 20:4gHW+gAA7HEGPNGWZffwy+Rt1cf8qD0iLBStU8hwPvoK5LudKzeTJj5SLCNEVLf+VWw8D5dEf1fbKHsnH/UomF8mlkAJNPnS2ho3aeKubhu+pJAzMZSny+bnTQn0vpMXB+FtSLH2ya1PRwDVCnkBsbbrfyMLU+3xr5ItiwCLUn0= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:HE1PR08MB0572; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(520078)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:HE1PR08MB0572; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HE1PR08MB0572; x-forefront-prvs: 073515755F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(189002)(24454002)(199003)(377454003)(53754006)(51444003)(479174004)(106116001)(87936001)(83716003)(64706001)(106356001)(105586002)(19580395003)(76176999)(15974865002)(50986999)(5007970100001)(5004730100002)(92566002)(81156007)(11100500001)(19580405001)(33656002)(5880100001)(57306001)(46102003)(10400500002)(86362001)(36756003)(2900100001)(66066001)(5008740100001)(102836002)(189998001)(97736004)(77096005)(15975445007)(82746002)(122556002)(50226001)(5002640100001)(110136002)(5001960100002)(40100003)(101416001)(2950100001)(163963001)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR08MB0572; H:HE1PR08MB0571.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Oct 2015 15:58:05.1912 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR08MB0572 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MC-Unique: 0gpTTvPSSZO1hawn5f5KfQ-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:58:15 -0000 Hannes, I think that makes good sense. Zach > On 20 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Hannes Tschofenig w= rote: > > Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE working > group instead. It is my impression that the train for adding multicast > security to DTLS has left the station already a while ago and folks are > in the meanwhile looking at an application layer security solution instea= d. > > On top of that there are far too few (security) people around so that > the overlap between ACE and DICE is almost 100% anyway. Those who are > interested group security are even a small subset of the security folks > in general (let alone those who have domain expertise in, for example, > the lighting domain). > > Ciao > Hannes > > > On 10/20/2015 05:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Congratulations to all involved in getting the DTLS profile >> document done and through the process. >> >> Now that that's done, and given that the originally planned >> work on group communication hasn't progressed as planned (due >> to us discovering that it was trickier than we initially >> thought), I think it's time for the WG to evaluate whether >> it's time to declare victory and close the WG, or if there's >> some other work to be done. >> >> In chatting with the chairs, we figured that perhaps now is >> time to declare victory, but of course that's a topic to talk >> about here, so please send your thoughts on the topic to the >> list in the next week or two and the chairs and I will see >> where we think things are at. >> >> Cheers and well done again, >> Stephen, Dorothy ad Zach. >> >> PS: The list can remain open even if we do end up closing >> the working group if that's useful. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot Zach Shelby Vice President, Marketing ARM Internet of Things BU www.arm.com US: +1 (408) 203-9434 Finland: +358 407796297 Skype: zdshelby LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ ________________________________ -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are con= fidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient= , please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to = any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information = in any medium. Thank you. From nobody Tue Oct 20 09:08:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB181B3539 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:08:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lZXlpmZMPer8 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1A781B3521 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.131.140] ([80.92.122.73]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MHXXo-1Zpfu62xDA-003Ku7; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:07:26 +0200 To: Zach Shelby References: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> <866AAD58-17FA-46B1-B179-C38A5348C69D@arm.com> From: Hannes Tschofenig Openpgp: id=071A97A9ECBADCA8E31E678554D9CEEF4D776BC9 Message-ID: <5626666F.7080106@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:06:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <866AAD58-17FA-46B1-B179-C38A5348C69D@arm.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gLxVQL5GQw9sroqBarkEiQKDOxIbFNdJq" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:GX/qrwHu68ZsjuwVw+oF7WVxxG/MhriENyhgMM1N8pcd4o9KnOC TlvDjoVwSD/dy311n8HoM78kwm3K6PxSyD3uVLEnHbOUJN2Bl9m8e307njpTG5t/KpOkNWe bHC1AG5nHH4VV1hOzb6obwvR40LFrkBO4eX6ErE6l6j/B3zEuyw2v0aCOXtPz/GL2JxB67N ps0s9rHI9WFxNJKmn1sVA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:9S9tkCGCbCo=:As9m7l8UGbcXCUzButCSj9 eV2mkx3D62/7fCakH+ly2905mGx6H3zc4MWwwzq4vAP2yIFCD3zP7NkoIDXJeNEeSu+NKyokU YEV9U/kWIdCrH6P7d7q9MM1vEu6fcbXZizXflp0HgiYAWzx/toy0MdmEKyyLufrRy56tCsEzI wWNz1A+5JZZHeZZKvYggQcNPhpvRNllzTy81Y4FY931siqUreIjYjqezu8WAJtYjtZC2Tm8Yh F4OtNQ4SPjRKp1A0icoiBgsvxS9kIv3JwvdhzdpkE7gfMCpUlMGma+wekEPik7t92gFGvhBMq lIVzuFMeCtiboubtfRyxrEvCdkOvF/JqclCov6fKZLoHxW3BrAr2EmUrhaSYjuMdwObQfuNeo JKVffpUzUYVvTrz4d7iBCxP0c/sORfTBzE4alWeQoyxTbLI1mBhATmhA18thC75jPMQlD1U8H x3a00PU9ApLTaQKNWlURY9mvSGF6qF7zmhD+PrHz/U7TnuNKPOl7nO2Cm9CxsA39E34cTAbZJ IQOzkhsSORsp0c60qCUYpJ3I0GyUB5yMP+cXCuDilS4uOc5TNZcpsEcVe2ZXKbDLCxj4PWAw5 25mxwfdIQ0GcWiewrZPBdSsNdHUY16S/ERs1sXvMPG+utq0+bxJRcAF5CL2palyrxcbxPKhDt 8iUb4GHawz/ceISx+Z8+l+AbVYk3zvl6w54f3kpDSjkJ0TcsOT94q8rych9wZSf8bZhmM3G2a HsROs7atLbJg6qPyKY673Jo1lexyyFUnE8qWH3PrZYndChkZUsdGVrehBBo= Archived-At: Cc: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:08:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --gLxVQL5GQw9sroqBarkEiQKDOxIbFNdJq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And thanks to the chairs and to Stephen for the support! On 10/20/2015 05:58 PM, Zach Shelby wrote: > Hannes, >=20 > I think that makes good sense. >=20 > Zach >=20 >> On 20 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> >> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE working= >> group instead. It is my impression that the train for adding multicast= >> security to DTLS has left the station already a while ago and folks ar= e >> in the meanwhile looking at an application layer security solution ins= tead. >> >> On top of that there are far too few (security) people around so that >> the overlap between ACE and DICE is almost 100% anyway. Those who are >> interested group security are even a small subset of the security folk= s >> in general (let alone those who have domain expertise in, for example,= >> the lighting domain). >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> >> On 10/20/2015 05:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Congratulations to all involved in getting the DTLS profile >>> document done and through the process. >>> >>> Now that that's done, and given that the originally planned >>> work on group communication hasn't progressed as planned (due >>> to us discovering that it was trickier than we initially >>> thought), I think it's time for the WG to evaluate whether >>> it's time to declare victory and close the WG, or if there's >>> some other work to be done. >>> >>> In chatting with the chairs, we figured that perhaps now is >>> time to declare victory, but of course that's a topic to talk >>> about here, so please send your thoughts on the topic to the >>> list in the next week or two and the chairs and I will see >>> where we think things are at. >>> >>> Cheers and well done again, >>> Stephen, Dorothy ad Zach. >>> >>> PS: The list can remain open even if we do end up closing >>> the working group if that's useful. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 > Zach Shelby > Vice President, Marketing > ARM Internet of Things BU > www.arm.com > US: +1 (408) 203-9434 > Finland: +358 407796297 > Skype: zdshelby > LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are= confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended rec= ipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the cont= ents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the in= formation in any medium. Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >=20 --gLxVQL5GQw9sroqBarkEiQKDOxIbFNdJq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWJmZwAAoJEGhJURNOOiAtTxAIAIUvMRsXW7eQw0cjMlILb+a6 g8qF093aHOAGEbRs/QtOqEMaPDzSrCL1WBu6fWK2fppQc3+pk9hiZIfE9cChzSXz ye9pQoQjE5EKDQ1clv1ralvQZjXO8QGTfeqfRzC8VZRcKOPrw9ei3TbEUGLmKwK2 KzW+iCiNXop+LKKIv5XzWHQ0azLMmSYX1RlZEaHyh7oxoy0/cpX7JLX3dfEUGLA5 HonkRW/PFxOPljRXanIlicFDnMzzq7mW7QWZdDZ+31xg5cNpw0TgVP0ggl6ZJ2YW cekiEudz213FHbX7e61kxDTwnjB84k+xwOTkDj29X0/Nwg4H6nxqmPvtxXCgDPk= =4zEz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gLxVQL5GQw9sroqBarkEiQKDOxIbFNdJq-- From nobody Mon Oct 26 04:06:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dtls-iot@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A111A1B29EB for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 04:06:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.441 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.441 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JFvHWmkrGHmZ for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 04:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbox.sics.se (outbox.sics.se [193.10.64.137]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361341B29E5 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 04:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e-mailfilter01.sunet.se (e-mailfilter01.sunet.se [192.36.171.201]) by outbox.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0E46645; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:06:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from norm.sics.se (norm.sics.se [193.10.64.192]) by e-mailfilter01.sunet.se (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id t9QB689l008637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:06:08 +0100 Received: from [193.10.66.141] (marco-desktop.sics.se [193.10.66.141]) by norm.sics.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02A2E16F; Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:06:08 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <562E0919.80504@sics.se> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:06:01 +0100 From: Marco Tiloca User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig , Zach Shelby References: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> <866AAD58-17FA-46B1-B179-C38A5348C69D@arm.com> <5626666F.7080106@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <5626666F.7080106@gmx.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5rvsTkp82sq8Xi2PiBPqC9m6usfgeVR1l" X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: outbound, outbound-sics-se:default, sics-se:default, base:default, @@RPTN) X-p0f-Info: os=Linux 2.2.x-3.x, link=Ethernet or modem X-CanIt-Geo: ip=193.10.66.141; country=SE; latitude=59.3294; longitude=18.0686; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=59.3294,18.0686&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: outbound-sics-se:outbound (inherits from outbound-sics-se:default, sics-se:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 09PxL68fH - 138ed169a2e6 - 20151026 X-Antispam-Training-Forget: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09PxL68fH&m=138ed169a2e6&t=20151026&c=f X-Antispam-Training-Nonspam: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09PxL68fH&m=138ed169a2e6&t=20151026&c=n X-Antispam-Training-Phish: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09PxL68fH&m=138ed169a2e6&t=20151026&c=p X-Antispam-Training-Spam: https://canit.sunet.se/canit/b.php?i=09PxL68fH&m=138ed169a2e6&t=20151026&c=s X-CanIt-Archive-Cluster: PfMRe/vJWMiXwM2YIH5BVExnUnw Received-SPF: neutral (e-mailfilter01.sunet.se: 193.10.66.141 is neither permitted nor denied by domain marco@sics.se) receiver=e-mailfilter01.sunet.se; client-ip=193.10.66.141; envelope-from=; helo=norm.sics.se; identity=mailfrom X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.36.171.201 Archived-At: Cc: "dtls-iot@ietf.org" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory? X-BeenThere: dtls-iot@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: DTLS for IoT discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:06:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5rvsTkp82sq8Xi2PiBPqC9m6usfgeVR1l Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070201070604030505070602" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070201070604030505070602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone, Does anyone yet support considering our recent contribution [1] as a future (last) action in DICE? Best regards, /Marco [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm/ On 2015-10-20 18:06, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > And thanks to the chairs and to Stephen for the support! > > On 10/20/2015 05:58 PM, Zach Shelby wrote: >> Hannes, >> >> I think that makes good sense. >> >> Zach >> >>> On 20 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >>> >>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE workin= g >>> group instead. It is my impression that the train for adding multicas= t >>> security to DTLS has left the station already a while ago and folks a= re >>> in the meanwhile looking at an application layer security solution in= stead. >>> >>> On top of that there are far too few (security) people around so that= >>> the overlap between ACE and DICE is almost 100% anyway. Those who are= >>> interested group security are even a small subset of the security fol= ks >>> in general (let alone those who have domain expertise in, for example= , >>> the lighting domain). >>> >>> Ciao >>> Hannes >>> >>> >>> On 10/20/2015 05:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Congratulations to all involved in getting the DTLS profile >>>> document done and through the process. >>>> >>>> Now that that's done, and given that the originally planned >>>> work on group communication hasn't progressed as planned (due >>>> to us discovering that it was trickier than we initially >>>> thought), I think it's time for the WG to evaluate whether >>>> it's time to declare victory and close the WG, or if there's >>>> some other work to be done. >>>> >>>> In chatting with the chairs, we figured that perhaps now is >>>> time to declare victory, but of course that's a topic to talk >>>> about here, so please send your thoughts on the topic to the >>>> list in the next week or two and the chairs and I will see >>>> where we think things are at. >>>> >>>> Cheers and well done again, >>>> Stephen, Dorothy ad Zach. >>>> >>>> PS: The list can remain open even if we do end up closing >>>> the working group if that's useful. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dtls-iot mailing list >>>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dtls-iot mailing list >>> dtls-iot@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> Zach Shelby >> Vice President, Marketing >> ARM Internet of Things BU >> www.arm.com >> US: +1 (408) 203-9434 >> Finland: +358 407796297 >> Skype: zdshelby >> LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/ >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments ar= e confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended re= cipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the con= tents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the i= nformation in any medium. Thank you. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dtls-iot mailing list >> dtls-iot@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dtls-iot mailing list > dtls-iot@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot --------------070201070604030505070602 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone,

Does anyone yet support considering our recent contribution [1] as a future (last) action in DICE?

Best regards,
/Marco

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm/

On 2015-10-20 18:06, Hannes Tschofenig= wrote:
And thanks to the chairs and to Stephen for the supp=
ort!

On 10/20/2015 05:58 PM, Zach Shelby wrote:

Hannes,

I think that makes good sense.

Zach


On 20 Oct 2015, at 08:48, Hannes Tschofenig =
<hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:

Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE working
group instead. It is my impression that the train for adding multicast
security to DTLS has left the station already a while ago and folks are
in the meanwhile looking at an application layer security solution instea=
d.

On top of that there are far too few (security) people around so that
the overlap between ACE and DICE is almost 100% anyway. Those who are
interested group security are even a small subset of the security folks
in general (let alone those who have domain expertise in, for example,
the lighting domain).

Ciao
Hannes


On 10/20/2015 05:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote:

Hi all,

Congratulations to all involved in getting the DTLS profile
document done and through the process.

Now that that's done, and given that the originally planned
work on group communication hasn't progressed as planned (due
to us discovering that it was trickier than we initially
thought), I think it's time for the WG to evaluate whether
it's time to declare victory and close the WG, or if there's
some other work to be done.

In chatting with the chairs, we figured that perhaps now is
time to declare victory, but of course that's a topic to talk
about here, so please send your thoughts on the topic to the
list in the next week or two and the chairs and I will see
where we think things are at.

Cheers and well done again,
Stephen, Dorothy ad Zach.

PS: The list can remain open even if we do end up closing
the working group if that's useful.

_______________________________________________
dtls-iot mailing list
d=
tls-iot@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot


_______________________________________________
dtls-iot mailing list
d=
tls-iot@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot

Zach Shelby
Vice President, Marketing
ARM Internet of Things BU
www.arm=
=2Ecom
US: +1 (408) 203-9434
Finland: +358 407796297
Skype: zdshelby
LinkedIn: fi.linkedin.com/in/zachshelby/


________________________________

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are c=
onfidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recip=
ient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the conten=
ts to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the info=
rmation in any medium. Thank you.

_______________________________________________
dtls-iot mailing list
d=
tls-iot@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot



      

      

      

      
_______________________________________________
dtls-iot mailing list
d=
tls-iot@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot


    

    

  


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From nobody Mon Oct 26 04:30:41 2015
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From: Carsten Bormann 
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> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE working
> group instead.

I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do comsec there
(we need it, but import it from elsewhere).

(COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one technology.)

One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS.  No idea
whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to remember it is
mostly done.

Grüße, Carsten


From nobody Mon Oct 26 04:44:04 2015
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From: Shahid Raza 
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Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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I also think we are not done with the DICE charter. To complete the =
work, I would prefer current chairs but will not mind new chair(s) if =
the group is closing only because of the unavailability of the current =
chairs.=20

Regards
Shahid

> On 26 Oct 2015, at 12:30, Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>=20
>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE =
working
>> group instead.
>=20
> I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do comsec =
there
> (we need it, but import it from elsewhere).
>=20
> (COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one =
technology.)
>=20
> One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS.  No idea
> whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to remember it =
is
> mostly done.
>=20
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dtls-iot mailing list
> dtls-iot@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot


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From: "Kumar, Sandeep" 
To: Shahid Raza , Carsten Bormann 
Thread-Topic: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:55:27 +0000
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Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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To: Marco Tiloca , Hannes Tschofenig , Zach Shelby 
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From: Stephen Farrell 
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Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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Replying to a few things at once...

On 26/10/15 11:06, Marco Tiloca wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> Does anyone yet support considering our recent contribution [1] as a
> future (last) action in DICE?
>=20
> Best regards,
> /Marco
>=20
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm=
/
>=20

If some work does get traction and has good security properties
we'll find a venue for that, so whether your draft progresses is
much more influenced by it's security properties and whether or
not people want to implement/use it.

On 26/10/15 11:30, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE working=

>> group instead.
>
> I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do comsec ther=
e
> (we need it, but import it from elsewhere).
>
> (COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one
technology.)

Again, I'd focus on defining the right piece(s) of work that have
good security properties and developer interest. If such pieces of
work exist, we'll find a venue or form a new wg if needed.

>
> One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS.  No idea
> whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to remember it is=

> mostly done.

If someone is willing and able right now is the time to say that.


On 26/10/15 11:43, Shahid Raza wrote:
> I also think we are not done with the DICE charter. To complete the
> work, I would prefer current chairs but will not mind new chair(s) if
> the group is closing only because of the unavailability of the
> current chairs.

If there is DICE work to be done, then I'll chat with Zach and Dorothy
about availability, but chair availability or lack thereof is not why
I at least think we're done here. And if there's good work to be done
and people to do it, we'll find new chairs if need be.

In summary, I'm seeing some level of interest in a few things, but
nothing that yet convinces me there's enough to keep DICE around so
far.

Cheers,
S.



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From nobody Mon Oct 26 05:59:27 2015
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To: "Kumar, Sandeep" , Shahid Raza , Carsten Bormann 
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From: Stephen Farrell 
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Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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On 26/10/15 12:55, Kumar, Sandeep wrote:
> I do have to say that Zach and Dorothy did spend quite some effort
> trying to get DICE on track even with their growing responsibilities
> outside IETF. Thanks to both!  However DICE was just taken hostage by
> a few distractors who even till today haven't provided any
> alternative practical solutions. It sure is a "victory" for the
> distractors, not for anyone here who wanted to solve a real world
> problem in a practical way.

I think the above is inappropriate. There were and are valid technical
criticisms of what was the planned work. Some who initially supported
that planned work were convinced by those criticisms. That does include
me fwiw, but I'm far from alone. Secure group communication as was
envisaged by our charter just doesn't turn out to work. That's a pity,
but a reality.

S.


> 
> When we started DICE, there were quite some good ideas on further
> improving IoT security with just DTLS (remember DTLS-relay). Either
> we need more energy and guidance (also from the chairs) or accept
> that these kind of stuff will be standardized outside IETF. The
> latter is a sad conclusion of closing DICE.
> 
> Sandeep
> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot
>> [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahid Raza Sent:
>> Monday, October 26, 2015 12:44 PM To: Carsten Bormann
>>  Cc: Hannes Tschofenig ;
>> dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or
>> time to declare victory?
>> 
>> I also think we are not done with the DICE charter. To complete the
>> work, I would prefer current chairs but will not mind new chair(s)
>> if the group is closing only because of the unavailability of the
>> current chairs.
>> 
>> Regards Shahid
>> 
>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 12:30, Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE 
>>>> working group instead.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do
>>> comsec there (we need it, but import it from elsewhere).
>>> 
>>> (COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one 
>>> technology.)
>>> 
>>> One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS.  No
>>> idea whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to
>>> remember it is mostly done.
>>> 
>>> Grüße, Carsten
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
>>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org 
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
> 
> ________________________________ The information contained in this
> message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable
> law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are
> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
> forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
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> recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all
> copies of the original message. 
> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
> list dtls-iot@ietf.org 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
> 


From nobody Mon Oct 26 06:30:50 2015
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To: Stephen Farrell 
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Cc: Carsten Bormann , Hannes Tschofenig , "Kumar, Sandeep" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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Going thoroughly (once again) through all the DICE emails discussing the =
group communication, I can clearly see that the group communication work =
had most valid criticism and some fake criticism (unfortunately more =
loud). There is a new draft (draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00) that =
carefully addresses the valid criticism and provides detailed solutions.=20=

I will vote for keeping the DICE active with new energy and finish the =
charter and declare victory.

/Shahid


> On 26 Oct 2015, at 13:59, Stephen Farrell  =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 26/10/15 12:55, Kumar, Sandeep wrote:
>> I do have to say that Zach and Dorothy did spend quite some effort
>> trying to get DICE on track even with their growing responsibilities
>> outside IETF. Thanks to both!  However DICE was just taken hostage by
>> a few distractors who even till today haven't provided any
>> alternative practical solutions. It sure is a "victory" for the
>> distractors, not for anyone here who wanted to solve a real world
>> problem in a practical way.
>=20
> I think the above is inappropriate. There were and are valid technical
> criticisms of what was the planned work. Some who initially supported
> that planned work were convinced by those criticisms. That does =
include
> me fwiw, but I'm far from alone. Secure group communication as was
> envisaged by our charter just doesn't turn out to work. That's a pity,
> but a reality.
>=20
> S.
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> When we started DICE, there were quite some good ideas on further
>> improving IoT security with just DTLS (remember DTLS-relay). Either
>> we need more energy and guidance (also from the chairs) or accept
>> that these kind of stuff will be standardized outside IETF. The
>> latter is a sad conclusion of closing DICE.
>>=20
>> Sandeep
>>=20
>>> -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot
>>> [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahid Raza Sent:
>>> Monday, October 26, 2015 12:44 PM To: Carsten Bormann
>>>  Cc: Hannes Tschofenig ;
>>> dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or
>>> time to declare victory?
>>>=20
>>> I also think we are not done with the DICE charter. To complete the
>>> work, I would prefer current chairs but will not mind new chair(s)
>>> if the group is closing only because of the unavailability of the
>>> current chairs.
>>>=20
>>> Regards Shahid
>>>=20
>>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 12:30, Carsten Bormann  wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE=20
>>>>> working group instead.
>>>>=20
>>>> I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do
>>>> comsec there (we need it, but import it from elsewhere).
>>>>=20
>>>> (COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one=20
>>>> technology.)
>>>>=20
>>>> One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS.  No
>>>> idea whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to
>>>> remember it is mostly done.
>>>>=20
>>>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
>>>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org=20
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
>>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org=20
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
>>=20
>> ________________________________ The information contained in this
>> message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable
>> law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are
>> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
>> forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is
>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all
>> copies of the original message.=20
>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
>> list dtls-iot@ietf.org=20
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dtls-iot mailing list
> dtls-iot@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot


From nobody Mon Oct 26 06:34:23 2015
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To: Shahid Raza 
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From: Stephen Farrell 
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On 26/10/15 13:30, Shahid Raza wrote:
> some fake criticism (unfortunately more loud)

That is also inappropriate. You may not agree with them, but your
disagreeing does not mean that whoever was criticising was being
disingenuous and it is not appropriate (not productive) to try to
denigrate other IETF participants in that manner.

S.


From nobody Mon Oct 26 07:03:07 2015
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From: Shahid Raza 
In-Reply-To: <562E2BDA.3050306@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:02:57 +0100
References: <56265F53.7040108@cs.tcd.ie> <5626624A.6050307@gmx.net> <866AAD58-17FA-46B1-B179-C38A5348C69D@arm.com> <5626666F.7080106@gmx.net> <562E0919.80504@sics.se> <562E0EDB.2060108@tzi.org>   <562E23A6.1000705@cs.tcd.ie>  <562E2BDA.3050306@cs.tcd.ie>
To: Stephen Farrell 
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Cc: Carsten Bormann , Hannes Tschofenig , "Kumar, Sandeep" , "dtls-iot@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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I have no doubt about the sincerity of their thoughts. By fake I meant, =
"not applicable or suitable" in the context of DTLS-based group =
communication for the IoT.
Also, as I said before, most of the criticism is very much valid.=20

/Shahid

> On 26 Oct 2015, at 14:34, Stephen Farrell  =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 26/10/15 13:30, Shahid Raza wrote:
>> some fake criticism (unfortunately more loud)
>=20
> That is also inappropriate. You may not agree with them, but your
> disagreeing does not mean that whoever was criticising was being
> disingenuous and it is not appropriate (not productive) to try to
> denigrate other IETF participants in that manner.
>=20
> S.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> dtls-iot mailing list
> dtls-iot@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot
>=20


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I have no doubt about =
the sincerity of their thoughts. By fake I meant, "not applicable or =
suitable" in the context of DTLS-based group communication for the IoT.
Also, as I said before, most =
of the criticism is very much valid. 

/Shahid

On 26 Oct =
2015, at 14:34, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:



On 26/10/15 13:30, Shahid Raza =
wrote:
some fake =
criticism (unfortunately more loud)

That is also inappropriate. You may not agree with them, but =
your
disagreeing does not mean that whoever was =
criticising was being
disingenuous and it is not =
appropriate (not productive) to try to
denigrate other =
IETF participants in that manner.

S.

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dtls-iot mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dtls-iot


=

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