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re-mov-e me from the list ----13907376_256.IpAg610-- From GretchenLeary@mushed.com Wed Jun 1 19:51:21 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21271 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcp0010367757pcs.woodln01.md.comcast.net ([68.54.173.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DddJT-0006cq-I9 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:12:00 -0400 Received: from sbNb@localhost by hT4k.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:30:04 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Merle Parks" Reply-To: "Merle Parks" To: oroagenda@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: MS Office 2003 Pro $69.95 Adobe Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:25:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: GretchenLeary@mushed.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--bxVYm7INjO6qeBfocXJ" X-Spam-Score: 6.2 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 27ec2ff0f5c3b18b49c722f4f1748838 Uvr ----bxVYm7INjO6qeBfocXJ Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Y
Opt-in Email Special Offer &n= bsp;   unsubscribe me
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=

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

<= /td>

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 Off= ice Pro 2003
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 = 6 Corel Dra= w 12
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 10 Adobe Premiere
  See more by this m= anufacturer
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   these other= items...
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Microsoft Office Professional E= dition *2003*
= Microsoft
<= table border=3D0>Choose:
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List Price:$899.00
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  • More than 20 preformatted business= reports
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Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
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<= table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 height=3D44 width=3D190><= tr>		 List Price: $599.00
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Sales Rank: #3
Shipping= : International/US or via instant download
Date Coupon Expires:= June 30th, 2005
Average Customer Rev= iew: 3D"5 Based on 498 reviews. Wr= ite a review.

= ----bxVYm7INjO6qeBfocXJ-- From GretchenLeary@mushed.com Wed Jun 1 19:57:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21520 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 203-166-238-72.dyn.iinet.net.au ([203.166.238.72] ident=qrjatydi) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DddIc-0006V9-G1 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:17:58 -0400 Received: from sbNb@localhost by hT4k.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:30:04 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Merle Parks" Reply-To: "Merle Parks" To: oroagenda@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: MS Office 2003 Pro $69.95 Adobe Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:25:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: GretchenLeary@mushed.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--bxVYm7INjO6qeBfocXJ" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 27ec2ff0f5c3b18b49c722f4f1748838 Uvr ----bxVYm7INjO6qeBfocXJ Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Y
Opt-in Email Special Offer &n= bsp;   unsubscribe me
SEARCH
=

<= tr vAlign=3Dtop bgColor=3D#333399>

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

<= /td>

 = ON SALE NOW!

 1 Off= ice Pro 2003
 2 Windows = XP Pro
 3 Adobe Creativ= e Suite Premium
 4 Norto= n Antivirus 2005
 5 Fla= sh MX 2004
 = 6 Corel Dra= w 12
 7 Adobe Acrobat 7.= 0
 8 Windows 2003 Serve= r
 9 Alias Maya 6 Wavef= rt
 10 Adobe Premiere
  See more by this m= anufacturer
   Microsoft
   A= pple Software
 <= /td> Customers also bought
   these other= items...
=



Microsoft Office Professional E= dition *2003*
= Microsoft
<= table border=3D0>Choose:
<= a href=3Dhttp://goemers.com/?a> 
<= /tr>
List Price:$899.00
Price:$69.99
Y= ou Save:$830.01 (92%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download= !
Coupon Code: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download
<= /span>
System requ= irements  |  Accessories=   |  Other Versions

Features:

    Analyze and manage business information usin= g Access databases
  • Exchange = data with other systems using enhanced XML technology
  • Control information sharing rules with enhanced = IRM technology
  • Easy-to-use w= izards to create e-mail newsletters and printed marketing materials
  • More than 20 preformatted business= reports
Sales Rank: #1=
Shipping: International/US or via instant downloa= d
Date Coupon Expires: June 30th, 2005
Average Customer Review: 3D"5 Based on 1,768 reviews. Write a review.
Microsoft Windows XP Professional or Longhorn Edition
Microsoft

=
Choose:
 
List Price:$279.00
Price:$49.99
You Save= :$229.01 (85%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!
Coupon Code: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download
System requirements=   |  Accessories  |=   Other Versions

= Features:

  • Designed for businesses of all sizes
    • =
  • Manage digital pictures, music, video, D= VDs, and more
  • More security = with the ability to encrypt files and folders
  • Built-in voice, video, and instant messaging support
  • Integration with Windows server= s and management solutions

Sales= Rank: #2
Shipping: International/US or via in= stant download
Date Coupon Expires: June 30th, 2005
= Average Customer Review: 3D= Based on 868 r= eviews. Write a review.

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
Adobe
=
Choose:
 

<= table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0 height=3D44 width=3D190><= tr>		 List Price: $599.00
Price:$69.99
Yo= u Save:$529.01 (90%)


Availability: Available for INSTANT download!<= br> Coupon Code: ISe229
Media: CD-ROM / Download

System requir= ements  |  Accessories&n= bsp; |  Other Versions

=

Features:

    <= li class=3Dsmall>Customized workspace; save personalized wo= rkspace and tool settings; create customized shortcuts
  • Unparalleled efficiency--automate production t= asks with built-in or customized scripts
  • Improved file management, new design possibilities, and a mor= e intuitive way to create for the Web
  • Support for 16-bit images, digital camera raw data, and non-squa= re pixels
  • Create or modify p= hotos using painting, drawing, and retouching tools

Sales Rank: #3
Shipping= : International/US or via instant download
Date Coupon Expires:= June 30th, 2005
Average Customer Rev= iew: 3D"5 Based on 498 reviews. Wr= ite a review.

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Please fill out this form and a broker will contact you soon.
Processing Form

Best Regards,

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Account Manager

---------------------

No future contact:
no thanks

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If your decision is not to make use of this final offer going here will help you to do so. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_CQLNVBOU.BUIESODT-- From uyang@didamail.com Thu Jun 2 07:32:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04110; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chy94-1-82-231-59-59.fbx.proxad.net ([82.231.59.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DdoGV-0007Dn-C6; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:53:36 -0400 Authentication-Results: butadiene.es from=premium.flew.es; domainkeys=neutral (no sig) X-Originating-IP: [91.233.12.239] Received: from premium.devotee.es (EHLO premium.sphinx.es) by premium.cady.es with SMTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:32:09 +0100 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:29:09 -0500 From: "Sharon Phipps" To: dnsind-archive@ietf.org Cc: dnsop-archive@ietf.org, dnssec-archive@ietf.org, donny.gifford@ietf.org, dorthy.bruno@ietf.org, doyle.crouch@ietf.org, dp@ietf.org, drafts@ietf.org, drums-archive@ietf.org, dvsqhmanet@ietf.org, dxnvmrouting-discussion-admin@ietf.org, e@ietf.org, e3@ietf.org, eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Dont miss out on low rates Message-ID: <111941.3261.uyang@didamail.com> X-Mailer: Kana Connect 6 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. You have qualified for the lowest rate in years... You could get over $400,000 for as little as $400 a month! Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what! To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below: http://www.cr3am.com/signs.asp Best Regards, Melisa Whitlock to be remov(ed: http://www.cr3am.com/deletion.asp this process takes one week, so please be patient. we do our best to take your email/s off but you have to fill out a rem/ove or else you will continue to recieve email/s. From Tzfxcdxh@smartsource.com Thu Jun 2 08:10:37 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07759; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ddor2-00017u-8x; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:31:20 -0400 Received: from 247.160.97-84.rev.gaoland.net ([84.97.160.247] helo=lh) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1DdoWs-0008CJ-4J; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:10:35 -0400 From: "Andy Hester" To: mailman@ietf.org Subject: FYI Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:09:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_VCIZVVVK.CAFRUDLN" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_VCIZVVVK.CAFRUDLN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR ABSOLUTE EFFORT We have tried to make contact with you on multiple times and we hope for you reply this time! Your present home loan qualifies you for up to a 3.40% lower rate. However, seeing as our previous attempts to make contact with you didn't work, this will be our final notice to enable you to receive in the lower rate. Please end your final step upon receiving this notice immediately,and complete your claim now. Submission Here. If your decision is not to make use of this final offer going here will help you to do so. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_VCIZVVVK.CAFRUDLN Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR ABSOLUTE EFFORT

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If your decision is not to make use of this final offer going here will help you to do so. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_VCIZVVVK.CAFRUDLN-- From BJGLLNKBIV@tenisdemesa.com.br Thu Jun 2 13:25:42 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09163; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ddtm0-0002Bn-4P; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:46:29 -0400 Received: from [60.183.4.82] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1DdtRq-00039T-LN; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:25:40 -0400 Received: from picnicmccubbe (HELO a2-10.melbpc.org.au [108.34.38.68]) by schuylkill.melbpc.org.au (5.9.7+Sun/4.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28286; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:17:01 +0300 Message-Id: <940.4@melbpc.org.au> X-Sender: BJGLLNKBIV@tenisdemesa.com.br Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:22:01 -0600 From: "Cecile Morris" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Account update Lucinda In-Reply-To: <4681929.00b0a2680@designs.com> X-Spam-Score: 7.0 (+++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d ----- Original Message ----- From: Lucinda To: windmill1@msn.com ; deceitattest@yahoo.com ; Dear Homeowner, Mortgage. You have been pre-approved. You can get $243,000 for as little as $232 a month, thanks to your pre-approval. Visit us, Fill out the form, no obligation Pull cash out, or refinance.. No long forms or quastionnaires. Fill up our extremely short and simple form today and get a call back within a couple of hours. Start saving now, click that link: http://www.point-financial.com/2/index/bvk diploma eqw peanut qm thyroid tms condescension pnv repressive wua delectate tzy confirm hfj bluebush ch physiotherapy uh resort an camellia oo quagmire pgi culminate dc extrema dpd http://point-financial.com/rem.php From bicyclecelanese_fiw@directaccessrealestate.com Thu Jun 2 14:36:05 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15057; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [201.135.131.130] (helo=dsl-201-135-131-130.prod-infinitum.com.mx) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ddurp-0004u2-Gv; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:56:51 -0400 Received: from constrictor.french-pleasures.com (201.135.131.130) by 201.135.131.130 with Microsoft SMTP954370(2.2.870.34); Thu, 02 Jun 2005 22:37:20 +0300 Received: from 201.135.131.130 (grabowsk[201.135.131.130]) by cloven.french-pleasures.com (jglbmp07) with SMTP id <66182918eonq61028dd>;Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:36:20 -0300 Message-ID: Reply-To: "sutherlan lanny" From: "sutherlan lanny" To: adslmib-admin@ietf.org Cc: secdir-admin@ietf.org, bmanet@ietf.org, secdir@ietf.org, diffserv-admin@ietf.org, uri-review-web-archive@ietf.org, ipo-archive@ietf.org, owner@ietf.org, routing-discussion-request@ietf.org, l2tpext-admin@ietf.org, dmin@ietf.org, owner-ietf-outbound@ietf.org, meeting-scheduling@ietf.org, iptel-request@ietf.org, ran@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, maddogs@ietf.org Subject: Ref1nance Acknowledgement # 707549 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:33:20 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--75511_0969789.i5k56" X-Spam-Score: 21.5 (+++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a ----75511_0969789.i5k56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit We tried to contact you earlier about financing your home at a lower rate.
We would like to let you know that we have gone ahead and started
the approval process.

Here are the results:
*Negotiable Amount: $100,000 - $600,000
*Rate: 4.87% - 5.36%

Please fill out this form and a broker will contact you soon.
Processing Form

Best Regards,

Frank Rinaldo,
Account Manager

---------------------

No future contact:
no thanks

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We would like to let you know that we have gone ahead and started
the approval process.

Here are the results:
*Negotiable Amount: $100,000 - $600,000
*Rate: 4.87% - 5.36%

Please fill out this form and a broker will contact you soon.
Processing Form

Best Regards,

Frank Rinaldo,
Account Manager

---------------------

No future contact:
no thanks

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    PROJECT MANAGER
    NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION
    FOLOMO - COMPLEX LAGOS NIGERIA
    ATTN SIR/ MADAM

    I am the project manager with the Nigeria National petroleum Corporation (NNPC). I know you will be surprise to receive this kind of letter seeking for your assistance. To be cadid, I got your e-mail address through a close relation of mine who is now with the Nigeria Chamber of commerce (NCC) though I did not disclosed to him what I will use it for as I only requested for one.

    Now the business in question is the transfer of US$12.5m . This sum came as an over invoiced sum which we did purposely, during when my
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    contractors was dully received their total contract amount leaving this over invoiced sum of USD$12.5m floating in the union bank Nigerian PLC, to be transferred to a foreign bank account. We the official concern are still active service, and the Civil rule of conduct does not warrant us top operate offshore account. That is the reason why we are strongly seeking for your assistance in proving your bank information's where we can transfer this fund. Please, you are very important in this transaction as every
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    I will be very grateful to receive this information from you, and also pleased that you should not betray the trust I imposed in you.
    As we will be investing part of our share in your country.

    I await your immediately complains
    Best regards
    Thanks
    Dr Osaze Martins,
    NB,PLEASE REPLY THROUGH MY PRIVATE MAIL ADDRESS,
    drosazemartinspm@zipmail.com.br

     

     

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    ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C56906.7A26A380-- From korellacongressman_pi@sayersconsulting.com Sat Jun 4 12:22:02 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14782; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200506041622.MAA14782@ietf.org> Received: from 80.178.150.131.adsl.012.net.il ([80.178.150.131]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Debjs-0007P3-IP; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:43:13 -0400 Received: from linemen.oilmuseum.net (80.178.150.131) by 80.178.150.131 (mn 7.3 HotFix 0.61) with SMTP id ; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:16:09 +0100 Reply-To: "claudina hernando" From: "claudina hernando" To: ipr-wg-admin@ietf.org Cc: ssm-archive@ietf.org, routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org, pmtud@ietf.org, imss@ietf.org, megaco@ietf.org, rsvp-archive@ietf.org, sip@ietf.org, rmt-request@ietf.org, mmusic-request@ietf.org, rserpool-admin@ietf.org, vrrp@ietf.org, isis-wg-admin@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Mortage Approval Confirmation Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:23:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned: Symantec Scan Engine v3.4 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--620965_29458054.Kd603" X-Spam-Score: 8.2 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 ----620965_29458054.Kd603 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit We tried to contact you earlier about financing your home at a lower rate.
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    No future contact:
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I've submitted an updated draft to the IETF, and I imagine it will show up soon. The update also includes a few minor fixes to bugs pointed out by Jouni Malinen. Meanwhile, the new draft can be found here: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy/eap-pax/draft-clancy-eap-pax-04.txt [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Avgshhus@netzero.com Sun Jun 5 04:00:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA20696; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 04:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200506050800.EAA20696@ietf.org> Received: from [210.91.14.57] (helo=lh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DeqOb-0005x4-4G; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 04:22:15 -0400 From: "Johnnie Woodward" To: cfrg@ietf.org Subject: For your information Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 12:51:45 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_FHFECYUP.YBNLHIOF" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_FHFECYUP.YBNLHIOF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR CLOSING TRY We have made an effort to write to you on a lot opportunities and we hope for you reply this time! 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    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBSI5pmqjQ0CJFipgRAlxGAKCpPrt7/HB5YroIdx5J84y6E5opeQCg49dn NHBQlfivIH+fWpgnCv9/jVY= =ui8Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------=_NextPart_000_00OW_07J7900AM_01K.526I30F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_00BK_06I6387ZK_02L.477L48U0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhNAEgAbMAAAAAAMz//2m19gtcqvGvYnQAAAMK/woEXfzXqpAy////zLlzEp3Y9kgAAP// /5xIACH5BAQUAP8ALAAAAAA0ASABAAT/0MlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmiqrmzrvnAspwRg38ARTEhj H4xJDQcQZHq/oGSBGziGRctC+WxOFA+cAIrTFW5AJsBpQeaoXJvRofgmxWSHeUwQYLVinaStlqKt GEM6dRRmQDw+RGMBaT8BbkWQdl8DOxRTQoprDmJEhyNYTjWVBJVsX0Ztn1U6fJtXqKdREjWrCnoV BKusVBNMrQ+ii6UBd2RYr3uxqn86SGvGew9rSKZPn7+WQ5ttvbS7td4Uo8UFuK6ntlnQ06FVpJU9 h88SCNZC4DkB9LT635YiFKRaxyZVrH7WRrHJEkfZrHeWmDREkIzXuDEW7qQaGEUgwh2E/yqg+7gE 40iIT9Zso6CAwA6NQhha8pjrzMWGIgk+MXWSnLJVdTzC9ChvhzwlLmvukihrk8I9SU0wu8Lwkr+h 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(and she'll thank you for it) http://dusked.biz/spur/?got woodcut you sandusky me harmon you astrology me clinic you pauli me circe you academician me mockery you bluebird me http://gluiest.biz/rm.php?got From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Jun 7 17:14:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA14572 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6AF202C9; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EEA120298; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:14:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604BC20298 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.252]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D55B1FE1B for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 82790 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2005 21:13:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20050607211318.82788.qmail@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.194.140.2] by web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:13:18 PDT From: Mahesh Kelkar To: eap@frascone.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Q: EAP retransmission & fragmentation Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:13:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Consider an example where... - EAP-server & Radius Server lie on the same backend authentication server. - Access Point(AP)/NAS acts as a passthrough for the EAP auth negotiation. - EAP-client lies on the peer. - EAP authentication is negotiated between EAP-server & EAP-client. Question 1) Who is supposed to retransmit the EAP packets? EAP-server or AP? - According to RFC2716 EAP-server should retransmit the EAP packets (section 3.2 - Retry Behavior - "As with other EAP protocols, the EAP server is responsible for retry behavior") - According to RFC3748 AP should retransmit the EAP packets (4.1 - Request and Response - "Implementation Note: The authenticator is responsible for retransmitting Request messages. If the Request message is obtained from elsewhere (such as from a backend authentication server), then the authenticator will need to save a copy of the Request in order to accomplish this.") - According to RFC 3579, AP should retransmit the EAP packets (2.3 - Retransmission - As noted in [RFC2284], if an EAP packet is lost in transit between the authenticating peer and the NAS (or vice versa), the NAS will retransmit) Which one is true? I think it is very unnatural for AP to retransmit the packets. Because it is acting as a pass-though and shouldn't be involved in caching the packets & keeping track of it. Question 2) Normally, EAP-server is instructed to fragment the EAP-packets to the size of FRAMED-MTU (transmitted in the Radius Access request). Lets say if we have an EAP-server or Radius Server that does not comply with this and fragments the packet to the size more than the link MTU between AP & the peer. Now, AP will have to fragment the EAP packet using the fragmentation specified by the authentication method (TLS in this case). And each fragment will require a unique identifier. In this case how do we manage the identification fields of the EAP packets? Because if we don't then EAP-response from peer, reassembled at the AP, will definitely have a different id than the original id of the EAP request packet. Also, can we fragment the EAP-TLS fragment in order to fit it within the link MTU? Thanks Mahesh __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! 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    no From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 8 05:32:07 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA10369 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9526420505; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE8D20500; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:32:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE8020500 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.enst.fr (revol1.enst.fr [137.194.32.27]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841EF204FE for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1844164B99; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:31:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2.enst.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (revol1.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98996-02; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:31:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from infres3.enst.fr (infres3.enst.fr [137.194.160.2]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6671F164B00; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:31:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (merlin.enst.fr [137.194.160.24]) by infres3.enst.fr (8.12.9+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j589VKoq013651; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:31:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <42A6BAE7.3090303@enst.fr> From: Artur Hecker User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mahesh Kelkar Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Q: EAP retransmission & fragmentation References: <20050607211318.82788.qmail@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050607211318.82788.qmail@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at enst.fr X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:31:19 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi group, please correct me if i'm wrong: to Question 1: i think that depending on what is lost and where, both cases can occur. EAP-server is responsible for the EAP method, the authenticator is responsible for the EAP "channel". please remember that the EAP method is NOT implemented on the authenticator. i would generally suppose that a retry is something different than a retransmit. retransmit is a reissue of the same packet, whereas retry might imply semantic changes to the packet body (increase counters, etc). the latter case can impossibly be treated by the authenticator/AP. even if the EAP/TLS document does not really describe this case, some EAP methods might depend on critical, method-specific timeouts etc. finally, packets might be lost between the server and the authenticator. the authenticator will only retransmit the EAP packets on the link, according to its EAP state machine. you can perhaps look at it as at layering. the authenticator builds the EAP channel, but the EAP server builds the EAP method semantics. i.e. it is comparable to the second layer managing retransmissions and e.g. TCP managing retransmissions. to Question 2: as already said, the AP will not be able to fragment the EAP packet according to the EAP method because it does not implement the EAP method. citing RFC3748 "fragmentation is not supported within EAP itself; however, individual EAP methods may support this." regards artur > Question 1) Who is supposed to retransmit the EAP packets? > EAP-server or AP? > - According to RFC2716 EAP-server should retransmit the EAP > packets (section 3.2 - Retry Behavior - "As with other EAP > protocols, the EAP server is responsible for retry > behavior") > - According to RFC3748 AP should retransmit the EAP packets > (4.1 - Request and Response - "Implementation Note: The > authenticator is responsible for retransmitting Request > messages. If the Request message is obtained from > elsewhere (such as from a backend authentication server), > then the authenticator will need to save a copy of the > Request in order to accomplish this.") > - According to RFC 3579, AP should retransmit the EAP > packets (2.3 - Retransmission - As noted in [RFC2284], if > an EAP packet is lost in transit between the authenticating > peer and the NAS (or vice versa), the NAS will retransmit) > > Which one is true? > I think it is very unnatural for AP to retransmit the > packets. Because it is acting as a pass-though and > shouldn't be involved in caching the packets & keeping > track of it. > > Question 2) > Normally, EAP-server is instructed to fragment the > EAP-packets to the size of FRAMED-MTU (transmitted in the > Radius Access request). Lets say if we have an EAP-server > or Radius Server that does not comply with this and > fragments the packet to the size more than the link MTU > between AP & the peer. > > Now, AP will have to fragment the EAP packet using the > fragmentation specified by the authentication method (TLS > in this case). And each fragment will require a unique > identifier. > > In this case how do we manage the identification fields of > the EAP packets? Because if we don't then EAP-response from > peer, reassembled at the AP, will definitely have a > different id than the original id of the EAP request > packet. > > Also, can we fragment the EAP-TLS fragment in order to fit > it within the link MTU? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From pviuxezdrmwux@bsd.org Wed Jun 8 08:27:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21600; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dfzza-0002Op-Md; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:49:14 -0400 Received: from 84-107-137-69.dsl.quicknet.nl ([84.107.137.69]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1DfzeG-00074R-Uh; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:27:09 -0400 Received: by kingdom.confor-med.com (Postfix, from userid 257582) id 1SFOEBfe-124WXRV-3B; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 05:27:01 -0800 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [69.168.10.240] by kingdom.confor-med.com with http for ietf-announce-request@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 05:27:01 -0800 X-Mailer: kingdom.confor-med.com webmail From: "Molly" To: ietf-announce-request@ietf.org Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 05:27:01 -0800 Subject: Say goodbye to pain X-Originating-Ip: 216.240.2.237 X-Originating-Server: kingdom.confor-med.com Message-Id: <4167386640485.1SFOEBfe-124WXRV-3B@kingdom.confor-med.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The New Breakthrough of "The Antidote" PROVEN FORMULA Not available in any retail outlet - To Learn More please follow: http://www.rsiultrsdf.info/sev Ships direct from the medical research facility. 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To Learn More please follow: http://www.lyfdad.us/sev Molly From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 8 12:12:06 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12907 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F86204A8; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B3120467; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:12:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726602045C for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.141]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8996020374 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 34645 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jun 2005 16:11:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20050608161133.34643.qmail@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.194.140.2] by web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:11:33 PDT From: Mahesh Kelkar Subject: Re: [eap] Q: EAP retransmission & fragmentation To: eap@frascone.com, Artur Hecker In-Reply-To: <42A6BAE7.3090303@enst.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Arthur, Thanks for the response. Please see inline [mvk] Thanks Mahesh --- Artur Hecker wrote: > hi > > > > group, please correct me if i'm wrong: > > to Question 1: > > i think that depending on what is lost and where, both > cases can occur. > EAP-server is responsible for the EAP method, the > authenticator is > responsible for the EAP "channel". [mvk] This is not clearly spelled out in any RFC. If both the EAP-server & EAP-authenticator share the responsiblity of retransmition, who decides when to retransmit? I mean, EAP-authenticator can start a timer after forwarding the request packet and retransmit the packet again on the timeout. So can EAP-server. Packet could get lost in the paths EAP-server & authenticator or authenticator & the peer. There is no way EAP-server could know about it. If EAP-server is equiped with the retransmissions, then I think there is no real need for EAP-authenticator to get involved in the retransmitions & duplicate detection. Also, is it true that retransmission of the identity request packet (that originates on the EAP-authenticator) should have a different identifier. i.e. it should be a retry not a retransmission? >please remember that > the EAP method > is NOT implemented on the authenticator. i would > generally suppose that > a retry is something different than a retransmit. > retransmit is a > reissue of the same packet, whereas retry might imply > semantic changes > to the packet body (increase counters, etc). the latter > case can > impossibly be treated by the authenticator/AP. even if > the EAP/TLS > document does not really describe this case, some EAP > methods might > depend on critical, method-specific timeouts etc. > finally, packets might > be lost between the server and the authenticator. the > authenticator will > only retransmit the EAP packets on the link, according to > its EAP state > machine. > > you can perhaps look at it as at layering. the > authenticator builds the > EAP channel, but the EAP server builds the EAP method > semantics. i.e. it > is comparable to the second layer managing > retransmissions and e.g. TCP > managing retransmissions. > > > to Question 2: > > as already said, the AP will not be able to fragment the > EAP packet > according to the EAP method because it does not implement > the EAP > method. citing RFC3748 "fragmentation is not supported > within EAP > itself; however, individual EAP methods may support > this." [mvk] Thus, Radius Server and/or EAP-server (that resides on the backend authentication server) MUST comply with the default min EAP MTU of 1020 bytes or the FRAMED-MTU passed in the Radius Access request. right? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M a h e s h V K e l k a r __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. 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I am married to late Mr. James Leo who worked with Kuwait embassy in Ivory Coast for nine years before he died in the year Octorber 2003. We were married for twenty years with a child. He died after a the illness that lasted for long four days. Before his death we were both born again Christians. When my late husband was alive we deposited the sum of $9.5 Million(NINE Million,FIVE HUNDRED U.S.Dollars) with one of good banks here in Cote d'Ivoire . Presently, this money is still with the bank. Recently my Doctor told me that I would not last for the next three months due to my cancer problem. Though what disturbs me most is my stroke. Having known my condition I decided to donate this fund to church or better still a Christian individual that will utilize this money the way I am going to instruct here in. I want a person or church that will use this fund to churches, orphanages, research centres and widows propagating the word of God and to ensure that the house of God is maintained. The Bible made us to understand that blessed is the hand that giveth. I took this decision because I have a child that will inherit this money but my son can not carryout this work only because i and my late husband decide to use some of the money to work for God and live some for our son to have a better live. our son is just 17yearold now and been grow up in africa, he have low manterity and my husband's relatives are not Christians and I don't want my family hard earned money to be misused by unbelievers. I don't want a situation where this money will be used in an ungodly manner. Hence the reason for taking this bold decision. I am not afraid of death hence I know where I am going to. I know that I am going to be in the bosom of the Lord. Exodus 14 VS 14 says that the lord will fight my case and I shall hold my peace. I want your telephone communication in this regard because of my health because of the presence of my family relatives around me always . I don't want any of my husband family relatives to recieve this money. With God all things are possible. As soon as I receive your reply I shall give you the contact of the Finance/bank. I will also issue you a letter of authority that will empower you as the new beneficiary of this fund. I want you and the church to always pray for me because the lord is my shepherd. My happiness is that I live a life of a worthy Christian. Whoever that wants to serve the Lord must serve him in spirit and truth. Please always be prayerful all through your life. Any delay in your reply will give me room in sourcing for a church or Christian individual for this same purpose. Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I stated here. Remain blessed. Mrs.ROSE MARIE LEO ======================================================================================== Dapatkan kemudahan layanan Mobile Email dari VENTUS untuk Personal, VENTUS Easy. 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Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C56E05.6CEC5982 Content-Type: text/plain Hi folks, There has been a lot of discussion recently on the use of EAP key management framework for supporting handovers. People (including myself) have been suggesting different methods and it seems that almost all of them have pros and cons associated to them. I tried to put a draft together to discuss ways of using EAP key management and its extensions to support key distribution that is required in an architecture that needs to support user mobility. I am aware that the proposals are mostly half baked and need further considerations, but am at the same time hoping that this may be an step towards consolidating some of thoughts and discussion presented on this list and other places towards a workable and easy-to-understand solution. Appreciate comments, Regards, Madjid Nakhjiri http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nakhjiri-eap-ho-00.txt Abstract The current EAP documentation set, such as [EAP3748], [EAPKEY6], and [RADEAP3579] provide a powerful framework for performing combined authentication and key management using an EAP server and an AAA infrastructure. The framework competently deals with many issues related to network-access control and link security setup. However, when it comes to deploying these specifications for mobile wireless environments, where a peer is required to perform fast and/or heterogeneous handovers, the current framework can be extended with more clear guidelines and possibly specifications in ways that prevent interoperability or security issues. This draft intends to explore some of the complications in deploying the EAP framework for handovers and analyze a few solution alternatives. 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The high! profile jewelry you're looking for at the lowest prices in the nation!!.. http://www.chooseyourwatch4u.com/ Choose from our collection of Rolex watches! you etiquette me spate me From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Jun 11 09:14:12 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08131 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C882048A; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6652046A; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:14:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38DFE2046A for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (fmr18.intel.com [134.134.136.17]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1C592042E for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr003.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j5BDDGVL005635; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 13:13:16 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j5BDDD3v023263; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 13:13:13 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005061106131319091 ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:13:13 -0700 Received: from orsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.207]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:13:13 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] methods and expert reviews Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] methods and expert reviews Thread-Index: AcVrRI6fPyydxQjWQFC/g/nG1cwmCwChQ46g From: "Walker, Jesse" To: "Jari Arkko" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2005 13:13:13.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[52707830:01C56E87] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:13:10 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jari, My security review of EAP-PSK is below. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EAP Type Code Allocation Review Template: EAP-PSK As noted in RFC 3748, for EAP methods to obtain a Type Code, Expert Review with Specification is required. The following list of issues is provided as a guideline to potential expert reviewers and method authors. =20 1. Does the method document its security properties in sufficient manner, as required by Section 7.2 of RFC 3748? 1a. Mechanism. Is the mechanism explained? >> YES 1b. Security claims. Are the claimed and not claimed properties listed? >> YES 1c. Justifications for the claims? Is an explanation or reference provided to each of the claims? >> YES, the claims are justified. However, below I note several claims that are false and whose justification therefore should be updated. 1d. Key strength. Is the key strength documented? >> YES, but more discussion is required. See detailed comments below. 1e. Description of key hierarchy. Is the key hierarchy documented? >> YES [Optional, at least for now: does it conform to EAP keying framework?]: >> YES 1f. Indication of vulnerabilities. Are the known vulnerabilities documented? >> NO. There are undocumented vulnerabilities. [Note: it seems unreasonable to require the documentation of unknown vulnerabilities :-) The "known" may of course be "known to reviewer" or "known to author" or "known to the community", but that appears to be best we can do.] 2. Compliance with EAP packet formats 2a. Does the method comply with the packet formats defined in Section 4 of RFC 3748? >> YES 3. Compliance with EAP behaviour 3a. Does the method comply with Success/Failure usage as defined in Sections 2, 2.2, and 4.2? >> YES 3b. Does the method comply with sequence usage as defined in Section 2.1 of RFC 3748? >> YES 3c. Does the method comply with request/response processing rules as defined in Section 4.1 of RFC 3748? >> YES 3d. Does the method comply with retransmission rules as defined in Section 4.3 of RFC 3748? >> Retransmission does not appear to be discussed adequately. The document needs further work here. 3e. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Identity, as defined in Section 5.1 of RFC 3748? >> YES 3f. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Notification, as defined in Section 5.2 of RFC 3748? >> The document fails to describe its use of notification. This oversight should be corrected. 3g. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Nak and Expanded-Nak as defined in Section 5.3 of RFC 3748? >> The document fails to describe its use of Nak and Expanded-Nak. This should be corrected. 3h. Does the method comply with the MIC usage requirements from Sections 3.1, 7.5, and 7.8 of RFC 3748? >> YES 4. Compliance with IANA requirements 4a. Does the method comply with EAP-based IANA requirements defined in Section 6 of RFC 3748? That is, if it requests the allocation of new numbers in the EAP namespace [not applicable if the numbers have already been allocated], is the type of the document and process appropriate for the desired action? >> YES 4b. Does the method comply with other IANA requirements in the IETF standards track RFCs? For instance, does the method attempt to allocate TLS extensions (which would only be possible for standards track RFCs)? >> YES; it complies with IANA requirements for standards track documents Detailed comments This is a wonderfully written document, a joy to read, bristling with beautiful ideas, and addressing an urgent problem. The document has issues, identified below, that should be addressed before it progresses. Included in the review are some suggestions for how the issues might be addressed, but the authors and the working group can certainly constructively formulate other solutions instead. The issues identified fall into the following categories: 1. AKA and KDK issues, 2. TEK, MSK, and EMSK issues, 3. Protocol issues, 4. Retries, Replays, and Failures 5. Security bounds, and 6. Odds and ends. 1. AKA and KDK issues The text should point out more explicitly that AK and KDK are static long-lived keys, i.e., not session oriented. The key naming should be made explicit, as the key names used are a fundamental aspect of this protocol. The usage in the text assumes the EAP peer name for this key pair is , and it assumes EAP server name for this key pair is . Including EAP-PSK as part of the key identifier is critical, as the protocol design assumes AK and KDK are never used outside of EAP-PSK. To help us understand the implications of this, it is useful to spell out the details of any algorithm in pseudo-code. In this case, the resulting text for this instance of "modified counter mode" used for the derivation would look something like: IV :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000=20 T1 :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(PSK, IV) T2 :=3D T1 XOR 00000000000000000000000000000001 AK :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(PSK, T2) T2 :=3D T1 XOR 00000000000000000000000000000002 KDK :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(PSK, T2) Securely delete T1 and T2 if forward secrecy is required, delete PSK securely Identify by the identifier , where id is the name of the other party Here AES-128-Encrypt(.,.) means to encrypt its second argument using the first argument the encryption key, and ":=3D" denotes assignment. The IV and counter values are expressed in hex. The identification step at the end is not a nice frill; it is central to the protocol design and should be made explicit. The reason is the configured id receives its meaning as the distinguisher of this key pair by being placed in the context of EAP-PSK. This context and name then distinguishes this key pair from all other keys in all other contexts. The security claims made in the specification depend on this being true. Note also that the PSK is deleted whenever forward secrecy is required. Deleting the PSK SHOULD be a SHOULD and the default action. Since none of these derived keys depend on either the EAP peer or server NAI, these identities must get bound to the keys in some other way. However, there is no protocol defined to bind the identities to the derived AK or the KDK, implying that a different and independent PSK must be configured between each pair. This is a usability issue. In particular, the derivation for AK and KDK does not lead to different keys if the administrator spreads the same PSK across multiple devices. The reality is that many administrative domains will configure the same PSK on each and every device, while all the security claims of the protocol assume that different keys are configured between each pair of devices. Including the NAIs for the EAP peer and server in the derivation of the AK and KDK would afford an increase in security in the normal case by separating the pairs between different devices in every case, and by explicitly binding the identities to these keys. It would also indirectly bind the identities to the TEK, MSK, and EMSK. There is a second problem with the derivation, in that it is subject to prefix attacks. This is not a problem in the overall protocol design, but you never know when implementations will have bugs that might allow an attacker to somehow exploit this kind of weakness. The derivation should take into account the number of bits derived, and derive different keys if the same information is presented to the algorithm using the same parameters otherwise. So are there any plausible ways to include the NAIs and the derived key lengths into the derivation without discarding the entire key derivation procedure? Let us try to suggest some. The most obvious thing to try is to somehow use AES to "hash" the identities and then use this "hashed" value as the initialization vector IV presented to modified counter mode, instead of the IV 00000000000000000000000000000000. We want to use AES for this in order to preserve the lovely property that AES encrypt is the only cryptographic primitive required by the design. A procedure for constructing such an IV would start by concatenating the identities and padding them with the derived key length in some well-defined manner, e.g., L :=3D length(ID_S) + length(ID_P) M :=3D ID_S || 0x00 || ID_P || 0^(128 - (L + 17) mod 128) || 0x100 Here "length(.)" gives the length of its argument "." in bits, "ID_S" is the identity of the EAP server, "ID_P" the identity of the EAP peer, "||" means concatenation, and a^b means to concatenate b copies of bit a. This makes the concatenated string a multiple of 128 bits. The magic number "0x100" is the number of bits derived (256), represented as a hex value. The magic number 17 is the number of bits required to encode 0x100 and the "0x00" sitting between ID_S and ID_P. The 0x00 is inserted between ID_S and ID_P to prevent sliding window attacks, but this presupposes that 0x00 is not a valid character in an NAI.=20 By encoding the number of derived bits into the string to be hashed, we can defeat the prefix attack problem if we can find a collision resistant hashing scheme. So such a scheme will be the next thing to search for. Two plausible AES-based hashing schemes immediately come to mind for producing IV from M. The first is to try to use AES in CBC-MAC mode, but for that we need a key; one idea for a key is the PSK: IV :=3D AES-128-CBC-MAC(PSK, M) This is not ideal, however, because PSK would be used in two different ways --once for hashing and a second time for key derivation--and multiple usages of a single key is almost always a bad idea. While reuse in this case may appear benign on first glance, why should we bother with an approach that will require a tricky analysis to confirm that it is indeed safe? A variant would be to use some "well-known" key as the CBC-MAC key, although this key would always be block cipher dependent: K :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000 (* AES dependent key! *) IV :=3D AES-128-CBC-MAC(K, M) In either case, the "hashing" scheme relies on the assumption that a block cipher in CBC-MAC mode is a pseudo-random function, so the resulting output should be collision resistant for each pair of identities and length (at least if we construct M properly). If you prefer, use OMAC1 mode instead of CBC-MAC. Relying on CBC-MAC for hashing is an egregious but probably effective hack. A second way to compute IV might be to Davies-Meyer hash M under AES-128: Partition M =3D M1 M2 ... Mn into 128 bit blocks H :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000 for i =3D 1 to n do H :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(Mi, H) XOR H IV :=3D H This is a genuine hashing algorithm. The Davies-Meyer construction is collision resistant when the block cipher behaves like a pseudo-random permutation, so again including the length in the hashed IV solves the prefix attack problem. This construction also relies only on public information; there is no key required as with the CBC-MAC approach. The major problem with this is Davies-Meyer requires n AES key schedule initializations, one for each block Mi. However, since the derivation for AK and KDK occurs "once," this overhead should be insignificant. Other approaches to computing IV may also be worth considering. Which one to=20 choose will probably depend on the outcome of the discussion we have below for the TEK/MSK/EMSK derivation. And if the CBC-MAC construction is used, then we will need some methodology to select the well-known key K. In any event, to summarize, using a hashed value of the derived bit length and identities instead of the zero IV would improve the design in three ways: a. It directly binds the identities of the server and peer to AK and to KDK, and indirectly binds these to any TEK, MSK, or EMSK derived from these. b. It improves the usability of the entire design by forcing AK and KDK to be unique and cryptographically separated for each pair of distinct identities, even when the same PSK is configured on all devices within an administrative domain. c. It defeats prefix attacks. Finally, in a totally different direction, perhaps it would be worthwhile to give some thought to key roll-over for the long-lived keys--no key can ever be eternal when security is an issue. It might be better to bind the key pair to a triplet that included some sort of PSK generation number, e.g., . Here psk-instance could be a date-timestamp or a sequence number or any other generation marker. If you do this, the text should give some consideration to how the key instance is conveyed by the protocol and perhaps in the key derivation as well. 2. TEK, MSK, and EMSK issues The derivation of the TEK, MSK, and EMSK depend on only RAND_S and KDK. This means the peer assumes (i.e., "trusts") that the server generates a statistically unique RAND_S for each session. If the server fails to generate a statistically unique RAND_S, then the TEK, MSK, and EMSK are compromised on each repeated session. To understand the implications of this, again it is useful to spell out pseudo-code for the key derivation: T1 :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(KDK, RB) for ci =3D 1 to 9 do T2 :=3D T1 XOR ci SK[ci] :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(KDK, T2) Securely delete T1 and T2 TEK :=3D SK[1] MSK :=3D SK[2..5] EMSK :=3D SK[6..9] Securely delete SK Here, the pseudo-code treats assumes ci is represented as a 128 bit integer in network byte order. Since the length is not included in the key derivation, prefix attacks are again possible against the key derivation algorithm itself, even if this is not a concern within the overall design. Returning to the trust assumption, the peer has to assume that the server will generate a different RAND_S on every instance of the protocol. We will see in the protocol analysis this is not a good assumption--replay attacks are feasible against the peer--and indeed, it is unnecessary. It is almost always a good idea to remove unnecessary assumptions when we can. We could perhaps remove the trust assumption about RAND_S by again hashing together RAND_S and RAND_P to obtain the RB value to use, e.g.: RB :=3D AES-128-CBC-MAC(0^128, RAND_S || RAND_P || 0^117 || 0x480) using the CBC-MAC hashing method with a 0 key, or H :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000 H :=3D AES-Encrypt-128(RAND_P, H) XOR H H :=3D AES-Encrypt-128(RAND_S, H) XOR H RB :=3D AES-Encrypt-128(0^117 || 0x480, H) XOR H using Davies-Meyer hashing. Here 0x480 =3D 1152 is the number of bits derived, which is encoded in 11 bits, leaving 0^117 =3D 117 bits of = zeros needed to complete the padding block. Note we do not need any padding between RAND_S and RAND_P to protect against sliding window attacks, because both are fixed length. If this RB value is used as the input for the TEK/MSK/EMSK derivation, then both parties can assure themselves that the session key is fresh by contributing their own statistically unique input, and the inclusion of the length defeats prefix attacks. This construction could also be used to address one of the security flaws in the present definition of the protocol message flows, discussed below. This is a case where the choice between CBC-MAC and Davies-Meyer hashing probably matters. The CBC-MAC approach requires only a single key schedule initialization (perhaps per device reboot), while the Davies-Meyer approach requires three (for each protocol instance). Since the session key derivation occurs once at the start each instance of the protocol, the CBC-MAC construction might therefore be preferable, even though it is a hack. 3. Protocol issues The message flow tries to "optimize" away "unnecessary" parts of the AKEP2 protocol. This does not work, because the Bellare-Rogaway construction is optimal and cannot be further optimized in any fundamental way without degrading its security. There are at least three problems in the present design: (a) message 2 fails to include ID_S, (b) message 3 fails to include ID_S and RAND_P, and (c) it is not evident that message 4 is protected from forgery.=20 Point (a). Since message 2 does not repeat ID_S, the peer never attests that it agrees ID_S is the server's identity. This problem cannot be fixed by replacing ID_P with ID_S in message 2, because then the peer would have no vehicle to attest to its own identity and hence identify the correct AK to use. The omission of ID_S is a symptom of a deeper problem. Since this construction does not include both ID_S and ID_P, man-in-the-middle attack becomes possible. In this particular case, the server has no way of knowing whether the identity ID_S was delivered to the peer. In the present design a malicious node M could replace ID_S with ID_M, and the peer will authenticate with the wrong party M instead of the server. At least one authenticated message must MAC both identities, or the key used for the MAC can be replaced by the man-in-the-middle. This must be fixed. I expect the message 2 format was drawn the way it is to prevent fragmentation. However, since there is no way to defend against man-in-the-middle attacks without MACing both identities, the spec will have to do so, or it will have to further limit the maximum combined lengths of ID_S and ID_P, or it will have to find one way to compress some of the fields, or we will have to accept man-in-the-middle attacks. ID_S could be replaced in message 2 by some hashed representation of ID_S, such as AES-128-CBC-MAC(0^128, ID_S || 0^(length(ID_S) + length(length(ID_S)) mod 128 || length (ID_S)). This "extra" crypto is unattractive on low power devices. The question becomes would you rather spend the extra MIPS or increase the bandwidth consumed by inserting ID_S into message 2 or be subject to man-in-the-middle attacks? Resolving this issue is the only hard choice I can see that is needed to completing the document. Point (b). The peer P never learns whether messages 1 and 3 are live, because the protocol does not force the server to MAC the peer's challenge RAND_P. This problem allows a malicious entity M to replay an old message 1 and 3 to convince the peer to think it has authenticated with the server. And the message needs to include ID_S instead of ID_P, because the server has never had the opportunity to attest to its own identity, i.e., to the correct AK to use; remember message 1 and its ID_S value could have been a forgery. The missing ID problem can be fixed by including ID_S instead of ID_P in message 3. The missing RAND_P problem again can be fixed either by including it directly in message 3 or by including it in the derivation of AK. Since the latter is not possible, message 3 has to somehow include RAND_P. One way to accomplish this without changing the message 3 format is to replace RAND_S in message 3 with hashed RB value suggested above; recall that we proposed "hashing" RAND_S and RAND_P together to form RB. Since such an RB includes RAND_P, the peer will receive assurance that the message is indeed fresh when RB is MACed. And RB makes for a perfectly good instance (i.e., session) identifier. This would be especially beneficial to protect exchanges protected by the TEK in message 4 and beyond. If this direction is taken, then we would NOT want to use the KDK for RB derivation, because it is then explicitly a public value, not a key; we would want to use either Davies-Meyer hashing or CBC-MAC hashing based on a well-known key. The alternative, of course, is to explicitly include RAND_P in message 3, as done by the Bellare-Rogaway construction. Point (c). Neither Figure 3 nor the accompanying text spells out explicitly how message 4 is protected. Message 4 could be protected by either the AK (and an OMAC1) or by the TEK (used with EAX). In the latter case, we need to know which bits are encrypted and which merely forgery protected. To accomplish this end, the text could, for instance, in Figure 8 use notation like {...}* to indicate EAX encryption under the TEK; the rest of the message would be EAX authenticated. The session identifier--whether RAND_S or the derived RB above--should remain in the clear but be integrity protected.=20 Since we would want to leave part of the P_CHANNEL_P_1 data structure in the clear (e.g., the sequence number) and a notation for accomplishing this is awkward, this suggests that we have not yet found the right boundary between the P_CHANNEL data structure and its underlying transport. There is another problem with message 3: P_CHANNEL_P_1 is not protected by the MAC. Depending on what happens otherwise with the protocol definition, this could enable cut-and-paste attacks against the message. 3. Retries, Replays, and Errors It will be necessary somewhere to specify how to handle retransmissions, i.e., we need a standardized treatment of "retries" as distinct from "replays". This holds for both the messages in the base protocol, and extended messages protected by the nonce N. Retries should cause the receiver to retransmit, while replays should be discarded. The difference between the two will always be an arbitrary distinction, but is needed for interoperability's sake. The document uses sequence numbers for the extended portion of the protocol, but fails to indicate the sequence spaces associated with each, how they are initialized, and how they are used to detect replays. I believe that there needs to be different sequence spaces for each of the two logical half-duplex channels, but perhaps the request/response nature of EAP will save us from this fate. The protocol seems to protect itself from reflection attacks by including the EAP header in the MAC. This is a detail the text glosses over and needs to be made explicit, especially in extended authentication protection provided by EAX, as it will likely be missed by many implementers. One notable omission from the spec is failure processing. As an example, what does the server do if it receives a message 2 for a protocol instance that it has not initiated? Experience shows that different implementers will handle such messages in different ways, almost always to the detriment of interoperability. 4. Security Bounds Page 39, Section 6.5 asserts that EAP-PSK is not subject to dictionary attack. This is not true when the PSK is computed from a feasibly searched key space, e.g., when it is, or is derived from, a password. Suppose, for instance, that the 802.11i password-to-key mapping is used to establish a PSK. The attacker can invoke this mapping on each dictionary entry, derive the AK, and use each value to simulate an authentication exchange. The attacker has only to compare the results of a recorded EAP-PSK instance with each simulated exchange computed using a key from the dictionary. The attacker can do the same with any other exposed key. Thus, none of the derived keys has any more strength than the original password. The specification should make this clear. Conversely, however, all of the derived keys are immune to dictionary attacks if PSK is. For the remainder of this section we will assume the PSK is taken from an infeasibly searched key space, so that dictionary attack is not possible. When AES is used in any CBC-MAC-like mode, the key should be replaced after 2^48 blocks have been processed. Since EAP-PSK protects at most 4 OMAC1-protected messages for each protocol instance, and since each message is at most about 1024 octets =3D 2^6 blocks, this means that AK should be replaced after about 2^40 instances. This bound could be improved, but why bother? There are about 2^35 milliseconds per year, so this permits about 2^5 years worth of protocols instances if new instances are initiated once per millisecond. Estimating the security of the KDK is tricky. The modified counter mode scheme is similar enough to the parallel key generation scheme in [1] that we should be able to derive bounds using an argument modeled on theirs, but I have not tried to push this through. The alternative taken here is to make a back-of-the-envelope estimate of the distribution of the derived keys directly. If the RB passed as input into the TEK/MSK/EMSK derivation is uniformly distributed, and if we were deriving only one block, then we expect a significant chance of RB's repetition after 2^64 invocations. Each protocol instance, however, derives a swath of 9 consecutive blocks from the KDK, so the probability of hitting any particular block again with a new randomly selected RB and its children is 9/2^128 < 1/2^124. We should therefore expect a significant probability collisions of RB to result in collisions of counter mode blocks after about 2^62 invocations. If we limit the total number of protocol instances to 2^40 or so, then it appears the design has a safety margin for all of the derived session keys to be unique. The text exhibits some confusion about how to measure the EAX key strength. It is not the number of messages but rather the total number of encrypted and integrity protected blocks that has to be limited. The probability that an attacker can successfully attack the EAX encryption scheme after q blocks have been encrypted is bounded by 9*q^2/2^128. The probability that an attacker can produce a successful forgery after q blocks have been integrity protected is bounded by (10*q^2 + 1)/2^128. The EAX proof of security says that these bounds are tight, i.e., that no attacker can do any better than this if AES is secure. If the protocol spec were to bound q at, say, 2^46, then we would have confidence that an adversary would never have more than about a 9*(2^46)^2/2^128 =3D 9*2^92/2^128 =3D 9/2^36 < 1/2^32 chance of somehow breaking the encryption, and no more than a 10*(2^46)^2 + 1)/2^128 < 10*2^93/2^128 < 1/2^31 to successfully create a forgery, assuming AES is a secure block cipher. That is, if we were to limit the total amount of data protected under the TEK to 2^46 blocks, then we would have great confidence that the protocol will not expose protected data. While the number of encrypted blocks will be smaller than the number of integrity protected blocks, this limit should never become a problem in practice. Estimating the number of the MSKs and EMSKs that can be safely derived depends on how they are used; the techniques in [1] are appropriate for doing this. It is sufficient to say that EAP-PSK appears as robust in this dimension as any other EAP method. 5. Odds and Ends Here are a number of miscellaneous comments: It would be worth considering replacing OMAC1 by CMAC. NIST SP800-38B [2] defines CMAC as the "approved" CBC-MAC variant. Page 5, Section 1.1.1, and Page 43, Section 6.9: While the protocol does not offer PFS, it does offer forward secrecy if the PSK is securely deleted after the AK and KDK are derived and if the PSK is not taken from a feasibly searched key space. This would be worth noting. Page 17: What specific security claim is being made by the phrase "proof of security"? Please detail the security model and assumptions used, and also the specific claims being made based on these. The proof may or may not be relevant in the present context. Page 21: The design requires the EAP server to expose its identity and to use the same identity with each peer, unless there is something in the EAP-Response/Identity triggering the method that tells it otherwise. This is a subtle configuration constraint that may not be evident to administrators deploying the protocol. Page 23, Figure 9: The hashed RB value constructed above that incorporates both RAND_S and RAND_P seems like a better session identifier than the RAND_S in messages 3 through 2i+1, because it is computationally infeasible for either party to force it to a value used by a prior protocol instance. Beginning in message 4, the P_CHANNEL_P_k needs to be protected by EAX using the TEK. Page 25, Flags field: The figure of the Flags field needs to be cleaned up. It should be relabled to have only 8 bits, not 9. And the unreserved field should be widened from 1 to 2 bits. Page 35: What happens if the tunneled method fragments?=09 Page 38, Section 6.1: Until message 2 is fixed to include both ID_S and ID_P, EAP-PSK does not provide mutual authentication. Page 38, Section 6.2: The assertion that the R field is protected does not yet appear warranted, given that the sequence spaces have not yet been completely specified, so replay and perhaps reflection attacks appear to be possible, and further given that the message 1 and 3 constructions allow an attacker to replay old EAP-PSK messages. The existing text would become correct when these issues are addressed. Page 42, Section 6.7: Since message 1 is unprotected, it can be forged by an adversary. Once it chooses to initiate an EAP_PSK instance, the server must commit to a value RAND_S to enable the peer to recover from a denial-of-service attack based on flooding forged message 1s. This is a reasonable constraint to put on server implementations. It will require you to fill out the missing discussion on the difference between retries and replays. RAND_S remains constant across retries, but is changed on all protocols instances the server classifies as "new". The receiver should retransmit the last message if it receives a duplicate within some retry message, and declare a duplicate a replay otherwise. Page 43, Section 6.8: Actually session independence comes about by choosing non-repeating instance identifiers . The current protocol lacks this property due to its inability to protect against replayed messages 1 and 3. When this is fixed, the protocol will have session independence. Page 43, Section 6.9. The protocol design explicitly assumes that neither AK nor KDK are shared beyond the two parties utilizing them. AK loses its efficacy to mutual authenticate the peer and server with each other when it is shared. Similarly, the derived TEK, MSK, and EMSK lose their value for authentication when KDK is shared with a third party. Page 43, Section 6.12: It should be easy to add a "fast reconnect" if the server and peer maintain the TEK and their replay counters. Whether this is valuable is dubious, however. Page 46, Section 6.16. I think it is a mistake to not define a cryptographic binding mechanism of a key producing inner method and EAP-PSK. It is easy to do, and it makes EAP-PSK safe to use key deriving inner methods. Subsidiary methods are becoming more important, as IT departments are moving to evaluation of the patch level of devices before they allow data to pass. References: [1] M. Abdalla and M. Bellare, "Increasing the lifetime of a Key: A Comparative Analysis of the Security of Re-Keying Techniques", ASIACRYPT 2000 [2] M. Dworkin (NIST), SP800-38C, "Recommendation for Block Cipher Modes of Operation: The CMAC Mode for Authentication", May 2005 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From rdale@fadmail.com Sat Jun 11 10:38:14 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14776; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [218.109.134.145] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dh7Te-0005Sc-Bv; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:00:53 -0400 Received: from directory.wkdyoo.bergland.inholding.com by recurred.bindle.rivet.com (rghupfix) with SMTP id 5B29E820425 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:37:16 +0400 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:32:16 +0300 From: "Houston Richter" To: Subject: Notification: We offer low rates X-Mailer: KYX CP/M FNORD 5602 X-Spam-Score: 8.1 (++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. 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    ----13TNrpKqA7iM0Vx-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Jun 13 08:29:10 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA05469 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E852041C; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8337C2034E; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:29:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915362034E for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com (mgw-ext02.nokia.com [131.228.20.94]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4A6202C4 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5DCSTef014828; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:28:32 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:27:56 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:27:57 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] methods and expert reviews Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] methods and expert reviews Thread-Index: AcVrRLiQjQ88UEcBQi2GdEQSVhRvHgEzOIdw From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2005 12:27:57.0700 (UTC) FILETIME=[54A95440:01C57013] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:27:54 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Having read draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2-06, I believe this=20 document is not ready for expert review yet. It needs a=20 substantial amount of work to make it a decent EAP method=20 specification, and its compliance with RFC 3748 is best=20 assessed once it has matured a bit more. Some comments (not as RFC3748 expert reviewer, but an ordinary reviewer): - The description of the protocol is very confusing reading. In many cases, the document seems to pretend it is using IKEv2 as an EAP method, or profiling IKEv2, but it's not: This is a new protocol that just happens to copy many aspects from IKEv2 (which is mainly a good idea, of course). So talking about sending IKEv2 messages is plain wrong: in almost all cases, the messages are not a valid IKEv2=20 messages. Even when the message formats look similar, the=20 semantics of the payloads and exchanges are not. Sometimes this gets just plain silly: For instance, Section 4 says "In particularly the following messages and payloads SHOULD not be sent Traffic Selector (TS) payloads...". So what exactly would be the "valid reasons in particular circumstances"=20 (from RFC2119 definition of "SHOULD") to ignore this item, and how should the other end process those payloads? My suggestion for rewriting the draft would be as follows: First, consider choosing a less confusing name for your protocol. Then describe whatever message exchanges you have=20 in correct terms: you're describing EAP-IKEv2 messages=20 (not IKEv2 messages) that contain EAP-IKEv2 payloads (which=20 may copy the details from IKEv2 payloads, but the semantics=20 often change slightly... and then you don't have to say that=20 "traffic selector payloads must not be included", because=20 there's no such payload type in EAP-IKEv2). Finally, when=20 you have described what the EAP-IKEv2 messages and payloads=20 mean, you can say that the syntax is the same as for similarly=20 named IKEv2 payloads (so you get to reuse the work done for IKEv2). - While copying the cryptographic aspects from IKEv2 is a good idea, perhaps copying everything is not (e.g. the messages for fast reconnect could be called something else than a "CREATE_CHILD_SA exchange", since CHILD_SAs are not very meaningful in this context) - Since this document does not defined a tunneled EAP method, I'd suggest deleting all mentions this feature of IKEv2=20 (or at least move the text talking about "if we supported=20 this feature, it would be done that way" to an Appendix). - Section 6: "Currently five bits ... are defined": this section defines the meaning of only three bits. Strangely enough, two other bits are named ("S" and "F") but it is not described why they're named, or what they mean. - Section 6: "Each fragment sent must subsequently be=20 acknowledged": how? - Section 8: length of EAP-IKEv2's MSK and EMSK is at least 64 octets: how do the parties decide how much longer than 64 octets? (or if it's exactly 64 octets, say so) - Section 9: The part starting with "To avoid this..." sounds fishy: what's the benefit of having two different options in this situation?=20 - Section 10: What happens if the peer has forgotten the SA? (figures 8 and 9 assume the peer still has the SA,=20 since it can send messages having "SK{..}") - Section 11.4: since we have payloads whose contents are not=20 described in this document, we need a normative reference to some document whey there are described. Otherwise, =20 an implementation can't process those contents in an interoperable fashion... - Section 12 should include some text about identity privacy (especially when doing fast reconnect or authenticating both parties using shared secrets). - Missing "IANA considerations" section. Best regards, Pasi _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From ATYGBQMJKOIFQ@infoswede.com Mon Jun 13 11:11:28 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21027; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-024-088-055-153.sc.res.rr.com ([24.88.55.153]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DhqxI-0001Y1-DR; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:34:31 -0400 Received: from haberman.uah.es (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.sherwin (SMPT_UAH) with ESMTP id 83119514C17E; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:10:16 -0300 Message-Id: <109851053237.camel@naldoco> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:09:16 -0500 From: "Maryellen Duvall" To: Subject: Want to shag more frequently? 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    no From AIPIDR@wmin.co.uk Wed Jun 15 06:22:59 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA28857; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [211.158.10.133] (helo=CQCNC-133) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DiVPP-0005A3-Ka; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:46:28 -0400 Received: from freethink.webhost1.alterusa.com id CFB63574DE; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:16:32 +0400 Received: by parboil.webhost1.starnetusa.net (Postfix, from userid 690) id CFB65814DE; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 04:19:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:18:32 -0200 Message-Id: <29741130090241.CFB4970DE@areaway.starnetusa.net> From: "Jose Purvis" To: mailserv@ietf.org Subject: Summer with Levitra Wendell X-Spam-Score: 24.4 (++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Summer sale on V i agra and other drugs. You won`t find better prices anywhere! S oma - 160 PiIls - 145$ V iagra - 100 PilIs - 209.99$ C ialis - 90 PiIls - 324$ U ltram - 120 PilIs - 155$ P hentermine - 90 PiIls - 261$ and many more... Please click below and check out our offer. http://abalone.qualitydr.info/?9387a0830a34bacb321e41dF54769388 collegian rectilinear maine collinear architectonic tenable cinderella dummy cinnamon maseru seersucker boulder moist visor rheumatism hewett texan chigger straightway goat strongroom wall nonogenarian upwind burial baird eighty bassi grime spooky bookshelves combatant loon pessimism gabon nottingham buss fair portal sandra godson rhetorician wrinkle amsterdam functionary symphonic boisterous elfin seepage sunrise loge propriety bugeyed classificatory From 819gloria@access-one.com Wed Jun 15 08:12:12 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08099 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DiX7F-0003fA-NB for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:35:40 -0400 Received: from [82.113.30.247] (helo=82.113.30.247) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1DiWkW-0006Fz-AA for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:12:05 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Richard K. Lee" <819gloria@access-one.com> To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: =?iso-8859-1?B?SG9ybnkgcGlsbHMgLSA3NSUgT0ZG?= Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:58:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_A59E3441.685F1EC2" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express V6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 7.2 (+++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_A59E3441.685F1EC2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_44411F70.F178DEF3" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_44411F70.F178DEF3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perfect erection Long duration of effects No prescription needed Only $2.99/$1.99 per dose (2 doses in each pill): CIALIS - http://www.pills-now.com/sv/ VIAGRA - http://www.pills-now.com/vt/ Delivered in a discreet package _________________________________________________________________________ To change your mail preferences, go here _________________________________________________________________________ ------=_NextPart_001_0001_44411F70.F178DEF3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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    ------=_NextPart_001_0001_44411F70.F178DEF3-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_A59E3441.685F1EC2-- From sameke2005@eresmas.com Wed Jun 15 08:59:56 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12403; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp14.eresmas.com ([62.81.235.114]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DiXrW-0006Zb-ED; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:23:25 -0400 Received: from [192.168.105.166] (helo=ma19.eresmas.com) by smtp14.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DiXQX-0002Xw-Nd; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:55:29 +0200 From: Mr sam To: sameke2005@eresmas.com Reply-To: sameke222@yahoo.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:55:30 GMT X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 11.8 (+++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
    Dear Friend,
    REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS PROPOSAL
    Although this proposal might come to you as as surprise since it is
    coming from someone you don't know or everseen before. But after due
    deliberation with my colleagues,
    I decided to forward this business proposal.
    We want a reliable person who could assist us to transfer the sum of
    US$37.4M (Thirty seven million,Four hundred Thousand United States
    Dollars)into his or her Account. This fund resulted from an
    over-invoiced bill from contract awarded by us under the budget
    allocation to my ministry and the bill was approved for payment by
    the concerned ministries.
    The contract was executed,commissioned and the contractor was paid
    his actual cost of contract. We are left with the balance of
    US$37.4M(Thirty seven million, four hundred thousand United
    States dollars)as the over-invoiced Amount which we have deliberately
    over estimated for our own use but under our protocol division, civil
    servants are forbidden to operate or own foriegn account. This is why
    I contact you for assistance.
    We have agreed to share the money as follows.
    1. 25% for you accountowner)
    2. 70% for us,
    3. 5% for tax, as may be required by your Government.
    As you may want to know and make you less curious, I got your address
    from a reputable Large chamber of commerce and industry and I am the
    executive chairman of the contract Award committee of the Nigerian
    National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC).
    This transaction is very much free from all sort of risk hence this
    business was carefully planned
    before it was successfully executed and we the NNPC officials
    involved in the deal have put in many years of meritorious service to
    our ministry.
    We have been exercing patience for this opportunity for so long and
    for most of us this is a life time
    opportunity we cannot afford to miss. To get t his fund into your
    account, we have to present an international business outfit and
    consequent upon indication of your interest to fully assist us in
    this transaction. You are advised to furnish us with the following.
    1) Your bankers name and address, telephone, fax and telex numbers.
    2) Beneficiary of the account, account Number and routine codeifany.
    3) Your Private Telephone/Fax Numbers for easy
    communication.
    This information will enable us seek approval of the fund from the
    concerned quarters within three to four banking days and the Nigeria
    National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) payment information data will
    be faxed immediately to you for completion. One of my colleagues and
    i involved in this deal will come to your country to arrange for our
    share upon confirmation from you that the money has hit your
    nominated bank account.
    All these will only take us about fourteen working days to transfer
    this fund into your account from the day we receive the requirement.
    Your line of business in this transaction does not matter.Honesty and
    your ability to keep it secret and keep our own safe when the money
    hits your account is what matters.
    Your prompt reply will be highly appreciated.

    Best regards,

     mr sameke

     

     

    From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 15 09:43:09 2005 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16213 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F9C204DB; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD962049B; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:43:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160002049B for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (fmr20.intel.com [134.134.136.19]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ED62044E for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j5FDgHkV023171; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:42:17 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j5FDg3iZ010131; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:42:15 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005061506421204876 ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:42:12 -0700 Received: from orsmsx401.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.207]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:42:12 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] methods and expert reviews Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] methods and expert reviews Thread-Index: AcVrRI6fPyydxQjWQFC/g/nG1cwmCwChQ46gAPjNqJA= From: "Walker, Jesse" To: "Jari Arkko" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2005 13:42:12.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[08DB26D0:01C571B0] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 06:42:10 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a follow up to my earlier review of EAP-PSK. There is one suggested improvement that I made that does not work, so can itself be improved upon. > The first is to try to use AES in CBC-MAC mode, but for that we need a > key; one idea for a key is the PSK: >=20 > IV :=3D AES-128-CBC-MAC(PSK, M) >=20 > This is not ideal, however, because PSK would be used in two different > ways --once for hashing and a second time for key derivation--and multiple > usages of a single key is almost always a bad idea. While reuse in this > case may appear benign on first glance, why should we bother with an > approach that will require a tricky analysis to confirm that it is indeed > safe? A variant would be to use some "well-known" key as the CBC-MAC key, > although this key would always be block cipher dependent: >=20 > K :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000 (* AES dependent key! *) > IV :=3D AES-128-CBC-MAC(K, M) > > In either case, the "hashing" scheme relies on the assumption that a block > cipher in CBC-MAC mode is a pseudo-random function, so the resulting > output should be collision resistant for each pair of identities and > length (at least if we construct M properly). If you prefer, use OMAC1 > mode instead of CBC-MAC. Relying on CBC-MAC for hashing is an egregious > but probably effective hack. > > A second way to compute IV might be to Davies-Meyer hash M under AES-128: > > Partition M =3D M1 M2 ... Mn into 128 bit blocks > H :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000 > for i =3D 1 to n do > H :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(Mi, H) XOR H > IV :=3D H > Yesterday while paging through the proceedings of EUROCRYPT 2005 from last week, I ran across a gem of a paper by Black, Cochran, and Shrimpton [1] that is relevant to this discussion. In it they prove that we cannot get collision resistance out of a block cipher based hashing construction cheaply; something like the Davies-Meyer construction is the most efficient you can hope for. Since we need collision resistance here, their result rules out my first suggestion, and leaves us with only something like the second as viable. I don't think this is a big deal for hashing the identities in IV, because that calculation is done only once, during the configuration of the long-lived keys. I suggested the same pair of algorithms again for hashing RAND_S and RAND_P at the beginning of each session, and there the expense is too great: > Returning to the trust assumption, the peer has to assume that the server > will generate a different RAND_S on every instance of the protocol. We > will see in the protocol analysis this is not a good assumption--replay > attacks are feasible against the peer--and indeed, it is unnecessary. It > is almost always a good idea to remove unnecessary assumptions when we can. > We could perhaps remove the trust assumption about RAND_S by again hashing > together RAND_S and RAND_P to obtain the RB value to use, e.g.: >=20 > RB :=3D AES-128-CBC-MAC(0^128, RAND_S || RAND_P || 0^117 || 0x480) >=20 > using the CBC-MAC hashing method with a 0 key, or >=20 > H :=3D 00000000000000000000000000000000 > H :=3D AES-Encrypt-128(RAND_P, H) XOR H > H :=3D AES-Encrypt-128(RAND_S, H) XOR H > RB :=3D AES-Encrypt-128(0^117 || 0x480, H) XOR H >=20 > using Davies-Meyer hashing. Etc. Davies-Meyer hashing is too expensive when done this way, because it costs three key schedule initializations. However, since the CBC-MAC hack won't work by the Black-Cochran-Shrimpton result, we either have to forgo the function or else live with a performance penalty or else live with only one of the RAND-x's as input to the session key derivation. A computationally better alternative might be a different hack, e.g.: RB :=3D AES-128-Encrypt(RAND_S, RAND_P) XOR RAND_P This requires only one key schedule initialization, during session initialization, which ought not be too onerous. This provides genuine collision resistance (if the underlying block cipher is secure). This does not mix the length into RB, but it is difficult to believe a prefix attack on this construction is possible, because it hashes the minimum amount of data (a single block) as it is. References [1] J. Black, M. Cochran, and T. Shrimpton, "On the Impossibility of Highly-Efficient Blockcipher-Based Hash Functions," EUROCRYPT 2005, pp 526-541 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From adamsnnpc@eresmas.com Wed Jun 15 13:29:54 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06628; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp11.eresmas.com ([62.81.235.111]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dic4r-0006Ot-FJ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:53:26 -0400 Received: from [192.168.105.171] (helo=ma21.eresmas.com) by smtp11.eresmas.com with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1Dibbv-0000ND-Jw; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:23:32 +0200 From: "St.michael idi Adams" To: adamsnnpc@eresmas.com Message-ID: <2ce40ad2ce6926.2ce69262ce40ad@ma21.eresmas.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:23:33 GMT X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: adamsnnpc@eresmas.com X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 6.5 (++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3Ctable border=3D0 width=3D=22100=25=22 cellpadding=3D=228=22 cellpaddi= ng=3D=228=22=3E=3Ctr=3E=3Ctd bgcolor=3D=22=23ffffff=22=3E=3CSPAN style=3D= =22FONT-SIZE=3A 11px=3B COLOR=3A =23000000=3B FONT-FAMILY=3A monospace=22= =3E=3CFONT size=3D2=3E =3CP=3EPhone=3A (24 hours)=3A 234 802 764 0445=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EEmail=3A micam500=40hotmail=2Ecom=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EI am the chairman of the contract award committee of the oil minis= try here in Nigeria=2C for security reasons=2C I may not wish to disclose= how I got your email address for now=2E=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EAfter due deliberation with my partner=2C I decided to forward to = you this business proposal=2C we want you to assist us receive the sum of= Twenty eight million=2C six hundred thousand united state bills (us28=2E= 6m) into your account=2E This fund resulted from an over-invoiced contrac= t awarded by us under the budget allocation to my ministry and the bill w= as approved for payment by the concerned ministries=2E The contract was e= xecuted=2C commissioned and the contractor was paid his actual cost of th= e contract=2E Now=2C we are left with the balance of us28=2E6m as the ove= r invoiced amount=2C which we have deliberately over estimated for our ow= n use=2E Please note that the law forbids civil servants to operate or ow= n foreign accounts hence this contact=2C we have agreed to share the mone= y in the following percentages=3A 30 for you=2C 60 for us 10 for tax as m= ay be required by your government=2E=3C/P=3E =3CP=3ENote that this transaction is very much free from all sorts of ris= k hence the business was carefully planned before it was successfully exe= cuted and we the officials involved in the deal have put many years in se= rvice to our ministry=2E We have been exercising patience for this privil= ege for so long not until the presidential announcement last week=2C that= all foreign contractors owed be paid forthwith=2C this will enable the p= residency reconcile our debt ratio with the outside world and to most of = us=2C this is a lifetime blessing we cannot afford to miss=2E Upon indica= tion of your interest to fully co-operate with us=2C a payment applicatio= n/information form will be sent to you via email for completion=2E =3C/P=3E= =3CP=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/P=3E =3CP=3ENote that the following information=3A a) bankers name and address= =2C b) account number and account name and c) your private phone number a= nd email address will enable us seek/secure approval of the fund from the= concerned government quarters/ministries within 3-4 banking days=2E =3C/= P=3E =3CP=3EAs soon as we confirm receipt of this money in your nominated bank= account=2C my partner and I will come over to your country to arrange fo= r our own share and possibly invest part of this money in your country=2E= =3C/P=3E =3CP=3ELet honesty and trust be our watchword throughout this transaction= =2E I shall furnish you with some details about myself=2E Your prompt rep= ly will be highly appreciated=2E =3C/P=3E =3CP=3EBest regards=2E=3C/P=3E =3CP=3EEngr=2E Adams=2E I=2E ST=2E MICHAEL=3C/P=3E=3C/FONT=3E=3C/SPAN=3E=3C= /td=3E=3C/tr=3E=3C/table=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cspan style=3D=22font-family= =3Amonospace=22=3E-------------------------------------------------------= ----------------=3C/span=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cspan style=3D=22font-family=3Averda= na=3Bfont-size=3A11px=3B=22=3EEncuentra tu casa r=E1pida y c=F3modamente=2E= Miles de viviendas te est=E1n esperando en =3Cbr=3E=3Ca href=3D=22http=3A= //banner=2Eeresmas=2Ecom/adclick/CID=3D000064c2c858344d00000000/site=3DER= ESMAS/area=3DERESMAS=2ECORREO/aamsz=3DPIE=5FWEBMAIL=22 target=3D=22=5Fbla= nk=22=3Ehttp=3A//www=2Eportae=2Ecom=3C/a=3E=3C/span=3E=3Cbr=3E From CRXNROWUMD@conceptsystems.com Wed Jun 15 22:14:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04790; 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However, I am still uncertain=20 about few things. Hence I have outlined an example below that=20 would help me post a set of clear questions. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the example-2 from the section 3.8 of the RFC 2716=20 (PPP EAP TLS Authentication Protocol).=20 ******If following figure does not fit into your email editor,=20 please copy the figure & paste it into a notepad.*************** In this case EAP server & Radius Server are situated on the=20 Backend Authentication Server. AP/NAS hosts the Radius Client &=20 PPP Server. And Peer hosts the PPP client & EAP client +-------------------+ +-------------------+ +-------------------+ | Backend | | Access Point (AP) | | Peer/Client | | Authentication | | or NAS or | | | | Server | | EAP Authenticator | | | | +------+ +------+ | | +------+ +------+ | | +------+ +------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |EAP | |Radius|<--->|Radius| |PPP |<--->|PPP | |EAP | | | |Server| |Server| | | |Client| |Server| | | |Client| |Client| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +------+ +------+ | | +------+ +------+ | | +------+ +------+ | | : : | | : : | | : : | +-------------------+ +-------------------+ +-------------------+ : : : : : : | | | | (1) | | | | | |<---------->| | | | | | (2) | | | | | |------------+------>| | | | | (3) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (4) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (5) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (6) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (7) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (8) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (9) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (10) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (11) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (12) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (13) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (14) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (15) | | |<-------+-----------+---------+------------+-------| | | | | (16) | | |--------+-----------+---------+------------+------>| | | | | (17) | | | | | |<---------->| | (1) - PPP LCP Negotiation (2) - PPP EAP Identity Request (3) - PPP EAP Identity Response (4) - PPP EAP Request/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (TLS Start, S bit set) (5) - PPP EAP-Response/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (TLS client_hello) (6) - PPP EAP-Request/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS=20 (TLS server_hello...etc.; Fragment 1: L, M bits set) (7) - PPP EAP-Response/EAP-Type=3DEAP (Ack) (8) - PPP EAP-Request/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (Fragment 2: M bit set) (9) - PPP EAP-Response/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (Ack) (10) - PPP EAP-Request/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (Fragment 3) (11) - PPP EAP-Response/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS=20 (TLS certificate..etc; Fragment 1: L, M bits set) (12) - PPP EAP-Request/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (Ack) (13) - PPP EAP-Response/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (Fragment 2) (14) - PPP EAP-Request/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS=20 (TLS change_cipher_spec, TLS finished) (15) - PPP EAP-Response/EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS=20 (16) - PPP EAP-Success - PPP Authentication Phase complete, (17) - NCP Phase=20 Comments: If Identitity Request (2) packet is lost, then AP is=20 responsible for the retransmission. If identity response (3) packet is lost between AP & peer, still AP is responsible for=20 the retransmission. I assume that its a retransmission,=20 hence contents of retranmission would not change. Questions: If EAP request fragment (6) gets lost and who is responsible=20 for the retrasnmission? If AP is responsible, how long should AP hold onto the=20 EAP-request fragment? (When should AP free the fragment?) If AP is responsible, what should be the retransmission=20 timeout value? If AP is responsible, What should be the maximum=20 retransmission value? If AP is responsible, what should it do with the duplicate=20 response received? (drop it or forward it?) Thanks Mahesh -----Original Message----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:14:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Subject: [eap] Re: Q: EAP retransmission & fragmentation > If both the EAP-server & EAP-authenticator share the > responsibility of retransmission, who decides when to > retransmit? The EAP authenticator is responsible for retransmitting EAP packets to = the EAP peer. Retransmission between the EAP authenticator and EAP server is handled = by AAA, *not* by EAP. In RADIUS, the NAS owns retransmission, so the EAP server (AAA server) does not retransmit. In Diameter, the reliable transport (TCP/SCTP) handles retransmission. > I mean, EAP-authenticator can start a timer > after forwarding the request packet and retransmit the > packet again on the timeout. It can do this in RADIUS. In Diameter, the Diameter client has a state machine for retransmission/failover. See RFC 3539. > So can EAP-server. No, when the EAP server and EAP authenticator are on separate boxes, the EAP server does not retransmit. 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Does the method document its security properties in sufficient manner, as required by Section 7.2 of RFC 3748? 1a. Mechanism. Is the mechanism explained? the mechanism used eap-tls, draft-ietf-tls-sharedkeys and some = additional "inner" mechanisms similar to peap or ttls (but seems to go = beyond them).=20 =20 the security properties of the "inner" mechanisms are not well described = (e.g., the usage of draft-urien-eap-smartcard or other authentication = mechanisms such as kerberos).=20 1b. Security claims. Are the claimed and not claimed properties listed? since the method introduces many optional parts it is difficult to = illustrate the security properties in a single list (e.g., the draft = name says "double-tls" but one option is the protocol is it to use it = without the "double" part). as a consequence the security properties are = entirely different.=20 the aspect of cryptographic binding is not described.=20 1c. Justifications for the claims? Is an explanation or reference provided to each of the claims? most of the security properties are described but this should be done in = the context of the different protocol options. for example, what happens = if you do not use pfs, identity protection and tunnel eap-md5 over = eap-tls? =20 explanations are given but they are applicable only to certain modes of = operation.=20 1d. Key strength. Is the key strength documented? only a pointer to the tls-prf function is given. this is insufficient. 1e. Description of key hierarchy. Is the key hierarchy documented? section 3.4 mentions the key derivation. however, more information is = required to see how the crypto-binding works, how the MSK is derived. = the current text seems to focus on the tls key derivation.=20 [Optional, at least for now: does it conform to EAP keying framework?] no.=20 1f. Indication of vulnerabilities. Are the known vulnerabilities documented? [Note: it seems unreasonable to require the documentation of unknown vulnerabilities :-) The "known" may of course be "known to reviewer" or "known to author" or "known to the community", but that appears to be best we can do.] no vulnerabilities are mentioned.=20 the need for the crypto-binding must be mentioned in order to prevent = man-in-the-middle attacks.=20 2. Compliance with EAP packet formats 2a. Does the method comply with the packet formats defined in Section 4 of RFC 3748? yes.=20 3. Compliance with EAP behaviour 3a. Does the method comply with Success/Failure usage as defined in Sections 2, 2.2, and 4.2? yes, implicitly follows the same procedure as eap-tls=20 3b. Does the method comply with sequence usage as defined in Section 2.1 of RFC 3748? yes.=20 3c. Does the method comply with request/response processing rules as defined in Section 4.1 of RFC 3748? yes.=20 3d. Does the method comply with retransmission rules as defined in Section 4.3 of RFC 3748? not mentioned although there might be some issues with regard to the = inner authentication methods that require user input.=20 3e. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Identity, as defined in Section 5.1 of RFC 3748? yes;=20 the concept of temporal identities is used to provide user identity = confidentiality.=20 synchronization issues need to be addressed (i.e., what happens if the = state is out-of-sync) but this does not seem to impact rfc 3748.=20 3f. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Notification, as defined in Section 5.2 of RFC 3748? yes, implicitly mentioned with a reference to eap-tls 3g. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Nak and Expanded-Nak as defined in Section 5.3 of RFC 3748? not mentioned.=20 3h. Does the method comply with the MIC usage requirements from Sections 3.1, 7.5, and 7.8 of RFC 3748? yes, implicitly since it follows eap-tls. 4. Compliance with IANA requirements 4a. Does the method comply with EAP-based IANA requirements defined in Section 6 of RFC 3748? That is, if it requests the allocation of new numbers in the EAP namespace [not applicable if the numbers have already been allocated], is the type of the document and process appropriate for the desired action? a request to iana to allocate a new eap type is indicated.=20 inner methods might also require the creation of a registry or is the eap-ttls namespace inherited? 4b. Does the method comply with other IANA requirements in the IETF standards track RFCs? For instance, does the method attempt to allocate TLS extensions (which would only be possible for standards track RFCs)? i am not sure whether the authors want this document become a standards = track rfc.=20 a few minor comments: - the reference section needs to be split into normative and informative = references. having (expired) drafts in the normative part of the = reference section will be problematic.=20 - the relationship of appendix a to the rest of the document is not = clear. - kerberos is mentioned at several places throughout the document. it is = not described how kerberos should be used in the context of this method. = - although the advantages of the eap method are advertised in the = context of tunneling an eap method (or other authentication methods) = over eap-tls eap-double-tls allows to skip the inner method. the = relationship to other methods, such as peap, eap-ttls and eap-fast, is = not clear. if the goal is user identity confidentiality for the eap peer = and pfs then more efficient methods are available. ciao hannes > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]=20 > Im Auftrag von Jari Arkko > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juni 2005 11:37 > An: eap@frascone.com > Betreff: [eap] methods and expert reviews >=20 >=20 > Hello folks, >=20 > Just to keep you updated on what's going on with expert reviews > of methods: We have gotten a number of requests for expert reviews > and iana assignments. Expert reviews are focusing on making sure > RFC 3748 is followed. The template for such reviews is at > http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/template.txt > We have gotten a number of volunteers to do such reviews, > see below. Thanks for the volunteers! >=20 > We hope to receive the reviews in two weeks, which should > give some time for discussion & revision before the next > I-D deadline, if necessary. >=20 > Other comments and opinions on methods are also welcome both > by these reviewers or other members of the WG on, e.g., > the usefulness of the methods for a particular purpose, security > properties, what people feel like is something that they would > implement, etc. >=20 > EAP-PSK > > Reviewer: Jesse Walker >=20 > EAP-IKEv2 > Reviewer: Pasi Eronen EAP Double TLS Reviewer: Hannes Tschofenig EAP Smartcard Type Reviewer: Glen Zorn _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From olynfagpz@ras.ltd.uk Sat Jun 18 12:54:37 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26030; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-024-088-038-055.sc.res.rr.com ([24.88.38.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Djgxy-0000O2-Mp; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:18:48 -0400 Received: from 1mail2.walla.co.il ([23.176.13.25]:20686 "EHLO omail1.walla.co.il") by omail3.walla.co.il with WESSMTP id S843975AbUJDPOk; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:48:19 -0600 From: "Orlando" Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:54:19 -0300 To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: As seen on Fox News - Rolex or Cartier or Breitling Message-Id: <1096162523.427000-77651olynfagpz@ras.ltd.uk> X-Sender: olynfagpz@ras.ltd.uk X-Originating-IP: [100.40.160.112] X-Spam-Score: 9.2 (+++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Superb Quality Rolex. 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The current scope is security mechanisms for the GSS-API, EAP and SASL frameworks. There will most likely be a BOF on this topic at IETF 63. Please join the mailing list if you have interest in this topic. =20 General Discussion: secmech@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secmech Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/secmech/index.html Description ------------------- There exists a disconnect between the IETF's security frameworks. Although these frameworks have very similar goals, the set of mechanisms available depends upon the choice of framework. There are a number of issues that make a compelling case for converging the way we develop mechanisms for these frameworks. =20 - There is a desire to standardized EAP mechanisms and there currently is no working group with this on its charter. It would be desirable to work on this in conjunction with other efforts in the security area including work on GSS-API enhancements in KITTEN working group and SASL enhancements in the SASL working group. - The actual mechanisms in each of these frameworks have very similar goals of authentication and establishing a cryptographic context. In many cases frameworks are developing new functionality that bring them closer together. An example of this is the addition of a PRF API to access key material from GSS-API.=20 - There is pressure to adopt a particular framework because of the set of mechanisms available not because of the capabilities and upper-layer interface of the framework. This recently was an issue with ISMS, but there has also been a desire to use EAP to authenticate other applications. We should be in a situation where the choice on mechanism was dictated by the deployment requirements and the choice of framework dictated by protocol design and implementation simplicity. =20 - There is a duplication of effort in the development of security mechanism that support similar credential types and infrastructures. This is problematic because the development of security mechanisms is both difficult and time consuming. It would be good to leverage the work and expertise required for developing a mechanism across all the frameworks. - Often the cost of deploying a security mechanism is in the infrastructure and not the implementation of the mechanism itself. There limited set of mechanisms available to particular frameworks makes the coordination and administration of security between applications that use different frameworks more difficult.=20 The first tasks of a SECMECH working group would be to document a set of evaluation criteria/guidelines explaining what standards-track security mechanisms need to do and how we will evaluate them and to document how we're going to go about specifying a security mechanism for use in the frameworks that are in scope. The working group would also be chartered to define a set of standards track mechanisms. The mechanism work would complete after the first two tasks have completed.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Jun 24 07:37:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DlmUh-0005nz-Aa for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:37:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA00833 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739BC2036A; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0707F2026F; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:37:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972322026F for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1C420254 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p213.54.72.151.tisdip.tiscali.de [213.54.72.151] (helo=p213.54.72.151.tisdip.tiscali.de) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1DlmTc35B2-0004sg; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:36:04 +0200 From: Thomas Otto Organization: Thomas Otto To: "Walker, Jesse" Subject: Re: [eap] methods and expert reviews User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: Cc: eap@frascone.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506241336.03287.t.otto@sharevolution.de> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:36:03 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jesse, regarding Section 2 of your review of EAP-PSK: > 2. TEK, MSK, and EMSK issues > > The derivation of the TEK, MSK, and EMSK depend on only RAND_S and KDK. > This means the peer assumes (i.e., "trusts") that the server generates a > statistically unique RAND_S for each session. If the server fails to > generate a statistically unique RAND_S, then the TEK, MSK, and EMSK are > compromised on each repeated session. The derivation of TEK, MSK and EMSK depend on RB and KDK, where RB is the 16byte random data of the *client*, that is RAND_P (cf. 2.2.1, p.14 ff. in draft-bersani-eap-psk-07.txt). I'm not sure how this circumstance affects your argumentation in Section 2. Regards, Thomas _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Jun 24 08:35:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DlnOn-0005yX-V5 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:35:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04934 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BF52038D; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0492026F; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:35:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C3CF2026F for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC7120254 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p213.54.72.151.tisdip.tiscali.de [213.54.72.151] (helo=p213.54.72.151.tisdip.tiscali.de) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1DlnNh3fA4-00029W; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:34:01 +0200 From: Thomas Otto Organization: Thomas Otto To: "Walker, Jesse" Subject: Re: [eap] methods and expert reviews User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: Cc: eap@frascone.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506241434.00063.t.otto@sharevolution.de> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:34:00 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jesse, some comments regarding Section 3 of your review. Please see my comments inline. > 3. Protocol issues > > The message flow tries to "optimize" away "unnecessary" parts of the > AKEP2 protocol. This does not work, because the Bellare-Rogaway > construction is optimal and cannot be further optimized in any > fundamental way without degrading its security. The paper "Entity Authentication and key distribution", http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/users/mihir/papers/eakd.pdf , illustrates in figure 5 the AKEP2 protocol, namely A->B: RA A<-B: [B.A.RA.RB]a A->B: [A.RB]a If both sides can verify the MAC, this protocol results in a common session key, \alpha, by applying some key derivation function f. In terms of EAP-PSK, \alpha is the TEK. EAP-PSK now swap both sides to comply with the EAP message flow Bob Alice | A||RA | |<---------------------------------------------------------| | | | [B||A||RA||RB] | |--------------------------------------------------------->| | | | [A||RB] | |<---------------------------------------------------------| Figure 4: Overview of AKEP2 and assign the peer to Bob, and the EAP server to Alice, which leads to the following message flow of EAP-PSK: peer server | Flags||RAND_S||ID_S | |<---------------------------------------------------------| | | | Flags||RAND_S||RAND_P||MAC_P||ID_P | |--------------------------------------------------------->| | | | Flags||RAND_S||MAC_S||PCHANNEL_S_0 | |<---------------------------------------------------------| | | | Flags||RAND_S||PCHANNEL_P_1 | |--------------------------------------------------------->| | | So, how far has EAP-PSK modified AKEP2? > There are at least three > problems in the present design: (a) message 2 fails to include ID_S, (b) > message 3 fails to include ID_S and RAND_P, and (c) it is not evident > that message 4 is protected from forgery. > > Point (a). Since message 2 does not repeat ID_S, the peer never attests > that it agrees ID_S is the server's identity. This problem cannot be > fixed by replacing ID_P with ID_S in message 2, because then the peer > would have no vehicle to attest to its own identity and hence identify > the correct AK to use. Although ID_S is not sent *explicitely* in message 2, it is gone in the computation of MAC_P, MAC_P = OMAC1-AES-128(AK, ID_P||ID_S||RAND_S||RAND_P) > > The omission of ID_S is a symptom of a deeper problem. Since this > construction does not include both ID_S and ID_P, man-in-the-middle > attack becomes possible. In this particular case, the server has no way > of knowing whether the identity ID_S was delivered to the peer. Having received message 2, the server does the same computation of MAC_P and verifies the result with the received MAC_P. So, if both MACs are the same, the server knows that his identity ID_S was delivered to the peer. > In the > present design a malicious node M could replace ID_S with ID_M, and the > peer will authenticate with the wrong party M instead of the server. At > least one authenticated message must MAC both identities, or the key > used for the MAC can be replaced by the man-in-the-middle. This must be > fixed. The peer computes MAC_P = OMAC1-AES-128(AK, ID_P||ID_S||RAND_S||RAND_P), which is verified by the server, and the server computes MAC_S = OMAC1-AES-128(AK, ID_S||RAND_P), which is in turn verified by the client. That is, the peer MAC both identities. [snip] > Point (b). The peer P never learns whether messages 1 and 3 are live, > because the protocol does not force the server to MAC the peer's > challenge RAND_P. Message 3 contains MAC_S (see above), so the client does recognize whether messages 1 and 3 are live (and not a replay). TBC _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From MaureenHenderson@mograbi.com Fri Jun 24 09:41:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DloQc-0007jA-Jx for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:41:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08829 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [218.49.42.119] (helo=YOUR-HTCAMX467T) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dlop6-0001Wq-9s for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:06:27 -0400 Received: from CyhK@localhost by Q24K.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:44:58 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Helen Adkins" Reply-To: "Helen Adkins" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95 AutoCAD Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:47:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: MaureenHenderson@mograbi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--FVz9UNU9X6qSb3hed1J" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bfe538a859d88717fa3c8a6377d62f90 qdH ----FVz9UNU9X6qSb3hed1J Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable p
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    ----FVz9UNU9X6qSb3hed1J-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Jun 24 11:16:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dlpuf-0005Qm-Sx for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:16:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16973 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444FF20441; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 993AF2038D; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:16:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F882038D for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F672026F for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p213.54.72.151.tisdip.tiscali.de [213.54.72.151] (helo=p213.54.72.151.tisdip.tiscali.de) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1Dlpty32CV-0001WB; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:15:30 +0200 From: Thomas Otto Organization: Thomas Otto To: "Walker, Jesse" Subject: Re: [eap] methods and expert reviews User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 Cc: eap@frascone.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200506241715.28908.t.otto@sharevolution.de> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:15:28 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Comments on the review of EAP-PSK - third (=last) part > Point (c). Neither Figure 3 nor the accompanying text spells out > explicitly how message 4 is protected. Message 4 could be protected by > either the AK (and an OMAC1) or by the TEK (used with EAX). The format of message 4 is Flags||RAND_S||PCHANNEL_P_1 , with a 1-byte Flags field, 16 byte server random of message 1, and the PCHANNEL field. I assume that RAND_S is sent in plaintext. Since it is sent plain in message 4, and since it serves in this context only as a session identifier, an encryption makes IMHO no sense. In section 3.3 of EAP-PSK, the format of PCHANNEL is explained. PCHANNEL contains three or four flags, in case of the mode (no extension, extension). * 2-bit R (result indication flag), * 1-bit E (extension flag) * 5-bit Reserved * variable length EXT (extension) which are sent encrypted by the protected channel. A reference is given to section 2.2.3, The Protected Channel. Thus, the format of message 4 is more detailed Flags || RAND_S || Nonce || Tag || R || 0 || Reserved xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and, for the extended mode, Flags || RAND_S || Nonce || Tag || R || 1 || Reserved || EXT xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx where the "x" highlight the part to be encrypted. Now, EAX mode keyed with the TEK encrypts the payload like follows: 4 bytes 22 bytes var.length L 16 bytes R 0 Reserved *or* Nonce N Header H R 1 Reserved EXT TEK | | | | v v v v +-------------------------------------------+ + EAX + +-------------------------------------------+ | | v v ciphertext Tag payload 16 bytes xxxxxxxxxx In the > latter case, we need to know which bits are encrypted and which merely > forgery protected. R, 0, Reserved (,EXT) So, we talk about 8 bits in standard mode and 8+|EXT| bits in the extended mode of operation. [snip] > Here are a number of miscellaneous comments: > > It would be worth considering replacing OMAC1 by CMAC. NIST SP800-38B > [2] defines CMAC as the "approved" CBC-MAC variant. > This leads to an analysis whether EAX must be replaced as a consequence. The authors' argument to take EAX was that it strongly relies on OMAC (see, for instance, figure 2 and 3 in http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/papers/eax.html). _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From wwwrun@oslo070.server4you.de Fri Jun 24 19:43:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DlxpA-0003gd-V2; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:43:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09137; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oslo070.server4you.de ([62.75.178.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DlyDm-0001lw-Ek; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:08:31 -0400 Received: from oslo070.server4you.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by oslo070.server4you.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id j5ONjHSO032104; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:45:20 +0200 Received: (from wwwrun@localhost) by oslo070.server4you.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j5ONjH9K032103; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:45:17 +0200 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:45:17 +0200 Message-Id: <200506242345.j5ONjH9K032103@oslo070.server4you.de> Subject: Hello From: "David Cole" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="--Boundary-=_885558930068095c7842cdd7d77c7a65" X-Mailer: b1gMail (www.b1g.info) X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 ----Boundary-=_885558930068095c7842cdd7d77c7a65 Content-Type: text/plain ; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LAND GATE IMPORT AND EXPORT COMPANY. 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Jun 27 17:42:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dn1Mo-0003rh-Bl for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:42:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24024 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E25B204A8; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDE020492; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:42:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E587420492 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010B62048B for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1Dn1Lt-000NJI-9N; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:41:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j5RLfAn10007; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:41:10 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Alper Yegin In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050627164046.0772b720@mail.binhost.com> Message-ID: References: <6.2.1.2.2.20050624160251.069c3780@mail.binhost.com> <02cf01c57b56$cfa94cb0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050627164046.0772b720@mail.binhost.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:41:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > >I understand that collocating otherwise separable entities is not likely > >to be an issue. I was asking if we require (assume) the EAP > >authenticator and the AAA client be on the same node. > > I do not think so. In fact, in the CAPWAP architecture, it is not clear > that they will be on the same host. I think that the EAP authenticator and AAA client exist on the same host in all cases. However, it is possible that the 802.1X authenticator and EAP authenticator may exist on different hosts. For example, in "split MAC" architectures, 802.1X may be terminated on the lightweight AP, but the EAP packet still needs to be forwarded to the switch for encapsulation in RADIUS. An "EAP authenticator" is the entity that identifies itself as the authenticator to the EAP peer (at the lower layer), and proves possession of keying material derived by the EAP peer and server, thereby binding that key material to the claim of identity. A "AAA client" is an entity which identifies itself as such to the AAA server, and can present credentials to prove that claim of identity. In RADIUS, the most appropriate attribute for this purpose is NAS-Identifier, since a single authenticator can have multiple IP addresses associated with it (e.g. NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address assigned to the same authenticator, or even multiple NAS-IP-Address attributes for one authenticator). To ensure synchronization between all parties, the authenticator identity claimed by the EAP authenticator lower layer MUST be the same as that claimed by the AAA client in the NAS-Identifier attribute. So we have said that the "EAP authenticator" and "AAA client" are claiming the same identity (albeit to different parties), and also obtain possession of keying material from the EAP server. As we have discussed in EAP WG, the EAP peer and server are the principals in an EAP conversation, and they do not utilize the authenticator identity except as an opaque blob for channel bindings. However, it is nevertheless important for the lower layer to obtain the authenticator identity and make sure that the EAP peer and authenticator are in sync with respect to it. This is important in order to define the key cache boundaries within the lower layer. The EAP peer and server push down the exported parameters to the lower layer (MSK, EMSK, IV, Peer-ID, Server-ID, Session-ID, Key_Lifetime). However, for the purposes of the lower layer, the scope of the key cache is defined by the media (NAS-Port-Type) and the authenticator identity (NAS-Identifier). As discussed at IETF 62, the EAP layer does not cache exported parameters, and a lower layer cannot allow keying material exported by the EAP method to move outside the key scope as defined by NAS-Port-Type and NAS-Identifier, in order to prevent cascading vulnerabilities. For example, if media A uses a suspect ciphersuite, allowing recovery of exported parameters, this should not lead to the compromise of a conversation occuring on media B. This implies that a lower layer key cache cannot share keying material with another media. If an EAP conversation occurs over media A, then the key cache on media B cannot obtain exported parameters from that conversation. The exception is sharing between AAA and lower layer on the EAP authenticator. It is the responsibilty of the lower layer on the authenticator to request that the AAA client obtain just enough information from the EAP server to for adherence to the "principle of equivalence". That is, the EAP and subsequent lower layer conversation MUST occur the same way, regardless of whether a AAA server is present. Replication of the EMSK between the EAP server and authenticator is prohibited, so that if a AAA client asks for the EMSK, the AAA server MUST NOT send it. However, the AAA client can ask for an AMSK and the AAA server can calculate and send that instead. In existing AAA implementations, neither the AAA client or server maintains a cache of exported parameters. Some examples: a. In IEEE 802.11i, the key hierarchy depends only on the MSK and Key_Lifetime (sent in the Session-Timeout attribute) and does not involve the EMSK, IV, Peer-ID, Server-ID, or Session-ID exported by the EAP method. Therefore the AAA client only needs to obtain the MSK and Key_Lifetime from the EAP server to maintain the "principle of equivalence". IEEE 802.11i does not require the AAA server to maintain a key cache. Note that the Key_Lifetime is not transmitted to the EAP peer in 802.11i, so that not all state is correctly replicated. b. In IEEE 802.16eD7, the key hierarchy depends on the MSK as well as the Session-ID, so these parameters would need to be requested by the AAA client. IEEE 802.16eD7 does not require a AAA server key cache either. c. In pre-emptive keying proposals, it is assumed that the AAA server maintains a key cache, and also that it may utilize that cache to enable handoffs between media. 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As per RFC 3748, only one authentication method is allowed to be negotiated within this conversation. Consider a case, where 1. EAP-server (E1) authenticates the peer by negotiating the EAP authentication method (say, A1) and sends the EAP-success (with an identifier value, say 10). 2. Another EAP-server (E2) is in the netowrk 3. Lets assume that E1 can communicate some EAP negotiated information to the E2 Question 1: Can EAP-server (E2) start a new EAP negotiation with the peer by sending an Identity request pacekt or an EAP-start packet? Thus, the peer would receive an EAP-sucecss packet followed by an EAP Identity request or an EAP-start packet. Question 2: What should the EAP-server (E2) send to the peer in order to rekindle the negotiation? an EAP identity request or EAP-start packet? If E1 has already conveyed the user-identity (or contents of Type-Data field in the EAP Identity response) to E2 then E2 can skip the identity exchange and proceed with the EAP-start packet. It can help us save the user interaction. Question 3: What should be the identifier value of the EAP identity request or the EAP-start packet? (11?, if identifier value of the earlier EAP-success was 10) or (any value, say 1) Question 4: Can EAP-server (E2) negotiate a different EAP authentication method (say, A2) with the peer? I could not discern this information from the peer statemachine and wanted to touchbase with you since lot of peer implementations would be based on it. Your responses are appreciated. Thanks Mahesh +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M a h e s h V K e l k a r ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. 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    http://www.lending-blocksx.com/r.php -re-mov-e me from the list ----92593_70.4VZwhBK724-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Jun 28 17:23:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnNXy-0007Ur-5G for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27477 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA1BA204A9; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903CF20438; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3D120438 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14504202CA for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ep_mmp1 (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IIT00EHKCOJVF@mailout2.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:21:55 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IIT002TOCOHGP@mmp1.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:21:55 +0900 (KST) From: Alper Yegin In-reply-to: To: "'Bernard Aboba'" , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <00d701c57c27$32d006f0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:20:22 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Bernard, > > >I understand that collocating otherwise separable entities is not > likely > > >to be an issue. I was asking if we require (assume) the EAP > > >authenticator and the AAA client be on the same node. > > > > I do not think so. In fact, in the CAPWAP architecture, it is not clear > > that they will be on the same host. > > I think that the EAP authenticator and AAA client exist on the > same host in all cases. However, it is possible that the 802.1X > authenticator and EAP authenticator may exist on different hosts. If we are going to make a distinction between the "EAP lower layer authenticator" and "EAP authenticator", we'd need to define the differences, roles, etc.. Btw, note that this is conflicting with the definition of "authenticator" in RFC3748 which equates the two. > For example, in "split MAC" architectures, 802.1X may be terminated on > the lightweight AP, but the EAP packet still needs to be forwarded to > the switch for encapsulation in RADIUS. > > An "EAP authenticator" is the entity that identifies itself as the > authenticator to the EAP peer (at the lower layer), and proves possession > of keying material derived by the EAP peer and server, thereby binding > that key material to the claim of identity. > > A "AAA client" is an entity which identifies itself as such to the AAA > server, and can present credentials to prove that claim of identity. > In RADIUS, the most appropriate attribute for this purpose is NAS- > Identifier, > since a single authenticator can have multiple IP addresses associated > with it (e.g. > NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address assigned to the same authenticator, or > even multiple NAS-IP-Address attributes for one authenticator). To ensure > synchronization between all parties, the authenticator identity claimed by > the EAP authenticator lower layer MUST be the same as that claimed by the > AAA client in the NAS-Identifier attribute. I guess an explicit NAS-ID needs to be carried by the EAP lower layer unless we assume an implicit value (e.g., the MAC address of the 802.11 AP). > So we have said that the "EAP authenticator" and "AAA client" are claiming > the same identity (albeit to different parties), and also obtain > possession of keying material from the EAP server. > > As we have discussed in EAP WG, the EAP peer and server are the principals > in an EAP conversation, and they do not utilize the authenticator identity > except as an opaque blob for channel bindings. They do not utilize peer and AAA server identities either. > However, it is > nevertheless important for the lower layer to obtain the authenticator > identity and make sure that the EAP peer and authenticator are in sync > with respect to it. This is important in order to define the key cache > boundaries within the lower layer. Unless the NAS ports can convey the NAS-ID to the peer before secure associations, NAS should also explicitly convey the port IDs in order to provide the key cache boundary. What do you think? > The EAP peer and server push down the exported parameters to the lower > layer (MSK, EMSK, IV, Peer-ID, Server-ID, Session-ID, Key_Lifetime). > However, for the purposes of the lower layer, the scope of the key > cache is defined by the media (NAS-Port-Type) and the > authenticator identity (NAS-Identifier). > > As discussed at IETF 62, the EAP layer does not cache exported > parameters, and a lower layer cannot allow keying material > exported by the EAP method to move outside the key scope as defined by > NAS-Port-Type and NAS-Identifier, in order to prevent cascading > vulnerabilities. For example, if media A uses a suspect ciphersuite, > allowing recovery of exported parameters, this should not lead to the > compromise of a conversation occuring on media B. > > This implies that a lower layer key cache cannot share keying material > with another media. If an EAP conversation occurs over media A, then > the key cache on media B cannot obtain exported parameters > from that conversation. > > The exception is sharing between AAA and lower layer on the EAP > authenticator. It is the responsibilty of the lower layer on the > authenticator to request that the AAA client obtain just enough > information from the EAP server to for adherence to the "principle of > equivalence". That is, the EAP and subsequent lower layer > conversation MUST occur the same way, regardless of whether a AAA > server is present. > > Replication of the EMSK between the EAP server and authenticator is > prohibited, so that if a AAA client asks for the EMSK, the AAA server > MUST NOT send it. However, the AAA client can ask for an AMSK and > the AAA server can calculate and send that instead. In existing > AAA implementations, neither the AAA client or server maintains a cache > of exported parameters. > > Some examples: > > a. In IEEE 802.11i, the key hierarchy depends only on the MSK and > Key_Lifetime (sent in the Session-Timeout attribute) and does > not involve the EMSK, IV, Peer-ID, Server-ID, or Session-ID > exported by the EAP method. Therefore the AAA client only needs to obtain > the MSK and Key_Lifetime from the EAP server to maintain the "principle of > equivalence". IEEE 802.11i does not require the AAA server to > maintain a key cache. Note that the Key_Lifetime is not transmitted to the > EAP peer in 802.11i, so that not all state is correctly replicated. > > b. In IEEE 802.16eD7, the key hierarchy depends on the MSK as well as the > Session-ID, so these parameters would need to be requested by the AAA > client. IEEE 802.16eD7 does not require a AAA server key cache either. > > c. In pre-emptive keying proposals, it is assumed that the AAA server > maintains a key cache, and also that it may utilize that cache to enable > handoffs between media. While in principle a NAS supporting > pre-emptive keying could request that the AAA server maintain a > cache, the same exported keying material cannot be at the root of > key hierarchies on multiple media. Thanks. Alper _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Jun 28 17:28:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnNcx-0000zL-79 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:28:21 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28188 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2A6204B2; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFFF202CA; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:28:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA5420438 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (fmr17.intel.com [134.134.136.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4CA202CA for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (orsfmr100.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.16]) by orsfmr002.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j5SLRDZL000889; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:27:13 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.54]) by orsfmr100.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j5SLQUOj003380; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:27:12 GMT Received: from orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.56]) by orsmsxvs041.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005062814271001655 ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:27:10 -0700 Received: from orsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.44]) by orsmsx331.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:27:10 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Message-ID: <0604335B7764D141945E2021531059600541FB7B@orsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Thread-Index: AcV7YRZoLhX4f9irQxCHaUE6SyprKQAwinLg From: "Sood, Kapil" To: "Bernard Aboba" , Cc: "Alper Yegin" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jun 2005 21:27:10.0391 (UTC) FILETIME=[24907470:01C57C28] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:27:09 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are we explaining a new terminology that does not exist in the 3748? As = per this: authenticator The end of the link initiating EAP authentication. The term authenticator is used in [IEEE-802.1X], and has the same meaning in this document. peer The end of the link that responds to the authenticator. In [IEEE-802.1X], this end is known as the Supplicant. What is the difference between the EAP Authenticator (which I believe is = defined above) and the 802.1X Authenticator, vis-=E0-vis 802.11i model? If EAP peer and 802.1X supplicant are the same, then in your explanation = below, the definition of EAP Authenticator is suggesting what is done by = the 802.1X authenticator. The definition of each will have drastic impacts on how people view the = keys to be bound (or, not bound), and hence, on the overall security of = the EAP-based systems. Best Regards, =20 Kapil. 503.264.3759 -----Original Message----- From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] On Behalf = Of Bernard Aboba Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:41 PM To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Alper Yegin Subject: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client > >I understand that collocating otherwise separable entities is not = likely > >to be an issue. I was asking if we require (assume) the EAP > >authenticator and the AAA client be on the same node. > > I do not think so. In fact, in the CAPWAP architecture, it is not = clear > that they will be on the same host. I think that the EAP authenticator and AAA client exist on the same host in all cases. However, it is possible that the 802.1X authenticator and EAP authenticator may exist on different hosts. For example, in "split MAC" architectures, 802.1X may be terminated on the lightweight AP, but the EAP packet still needs to be forwarded to the switch for encapsulation in RADIUS. An "EAP authenticator" is the entity that identifies itself as the authenticator to the EAP peer (at the lower layer), and proves = possession of keying material derived by the EAP peer and server, thereby binding that key material to the claim of identity. A "AAA client" is an entity which identifies itself as such to the AAA server, and can present credentials to prove that claim of identity. In RADIUS, the most appropriate attribute for this purpose is = NAS-Identifier, since a single authenticator can have multiple IP addresses associated = with it (e.g. NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address assigned to the same authenticator, = or even multiple NAS-IP-Address attributes for one authenticator). To = ensure synchronization between all parties, the authenticator identity claimed = by the EAP authenticator lower layer MUST be the same as that claimed by = the AAA client in the NAS-Identifier attribute. So we have said that the "EAP authenticator" and "AAA client" are = claiming the same identity (albeit to different parties), and also obtain possession of keying material from the EAP server. As we have discussed in EAP WG, the EAP peer and server are the = principals in an EAP conversation, and they do not utilize the authenticator = identity except as an opaque blob for channel bindings. However, it is nevertheless important for the lower layer to obtain the authenticator identity and make sure that the EAP peer and authenticator are in sync with respect to it. This is important in order to define the key cache boundaries within the lower layer. The EAP peer and server push down the exported parameters to the lower layer (MSK, EMSK, IV, Peer-ID, Server-ID, Session-ID, Key_Lifetime). However, for the purposes of the lower layer, the scope of the key cache is defined by the media (NAS-Port-Type) and the authenticator identity (NAS-Identifier). As discussed at IETF 62, the EAP layer does not cache exported parameters, and a lower layer cannot allow keying material exported by the EAP method to move outside the key scope as defined by NAS-Port-Type and NAS-Identifier, in order to prevent cascading vulnerabilities. For example, if media A uses a suspect ciphersuite, allowing recovery of exported parameters, this should not lead to the compromise of a conversation occuring on media B. This implies that a lower layer key cache cannot share keying material with another media. If an EAP conversation occurs over media A, then the key cache on media B cannot obtain exported parameters from that conversation. The exception is sharing between AAA and lower layer on the EAP authenticator. It is the responsibilty of the lower layer on the authenticator to request that the AAA client obtain just enough information from the EAP server to for adherence to the "principle of equivalence". That is, the EAP and subsequent lower layer conversation MUST occur the same way, regardless of whether a AAA server is present. Replication of the EMSK between the EAP server and authenticator is prohibited, so that if a AAA client asks for the EMSK, the AAA server MUST NOT send it. However, the AAA client can ask for an AMSK and the AAA server can calculate and send that instead. In existing AAA implementations, neither the AAA client or server maintains a cache of exported parameters. Some examples: a. In IEEE 802.11i, the key hierarchy depends only on the MSK and Key_Lifetime (sent in the Session-Timeout attribute) and does not involve the EMSK, IV, Peer-ID, Server-ID, or Session-ID exported by the EAP method. Therefore the AAA client only needs to = obtain the MSK and Key_Lifetime from the EAP server to maintain the "principle = of equivalence". IEEE 802.11i does not require the AAA server to maintain a key cache. Note that the Key_Lifetime is not transmitted to = the EAP peer in 802.11i, so that not all state is correctly replicated. b. In IEEE 802.16eD7, the key hierarchy depends on the MSK as well as = the Session-ID, so these parameters would need to be requested by the AAA client. IEEE 802.16eD7 does not require a AAA server key cache either. c. In pre-emptive keying proposals, it is assumed that the AAA server maintains a key cache, and also that it may utilize that cache to enable handoffs between media. While in principle a NAS supporting pre-emptive keying could request that the AAA server maintain a cache, the same exported keying material cannot be at the root of key hierarchies on multiple media. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From wlqdow@jahkola.pp.fi Tue Jun 28 21:31:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnRQl-0001ld-D6; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:31:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20564; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DnRqC-0005Db-KS; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:58:17 -0400 Received: from adsl-ull-4-64.41-151.net24.it ([151.41.64.4]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1DnRQf-0006vu-9f; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:31:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 007 invoked from network); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:30:55 +0400 Received: from unknown (HELO there) (127.0.0.1) by bohemia.minihub.org with SMTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:30:55 -0100 Content-Type: text/plain; Message-Id: <4.5.2.7.2.2005289.00b0a20@designs.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:29:55 -0600 From: "Maria Street" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Italian Rolex order Phillip User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c REPLICASONLINE - WE NEVER COMPROMISE ON QUALITY Rolex replica is our speciality We guarantee lowest prices and highest quality We are the Direct manufacturers. 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    If you prefer to be left out of this amazing offer going here will help you to do so. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_NKCHFJWZ.ZDSAAUVN-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 00:23:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnU6P-0007Vx-81 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:23:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA01443 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68555204B2; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB582043A; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:23:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB092043A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7441A1FC1D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1DnU62-000C80-NT; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:22:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j5T4Mfi24033; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:22:42 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: Alper Yegin Cc: eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: <00d701c57c27$32d006f0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> Message-ID: References: <00d701c57c27$32d006f0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:22:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > I guess an explicit NAS-ID needs to be carried by the EAP lower layer > unless we assume an implicit value (e.g., the MAC address of the 802.11 > AP). I think the authenticator identity needs to be explicitly defined. It could just be the MAC address but without defining it you get interoperability problems. > As we have discussed in EAP WG, the EAP peer and server are the > principals in an EAP conversation, and they do not utilize the > authenticator identity except as an opaque blob for channel bindings. > > They do not utilize peer and AAA server identities either. EAP methods do export the Peer-ID and the Server-ID, so I'm not sure what you mean. > Unless the NAS ports can convey the NAS-ID to the peer before secure > associations, NAS should also explicitly convey the port IDs in order to > provide the key cache boundary. What do you think? The lower layer spec needs to explicitly define the key scope/authenticator identity. Typically this is either an address of some kind (e.g. MAC address) or an identifier (NAS-ID). A port-ID is neither here nor there -- it doesn't tell the peer if the key derived on port X is also usable when connecting to port Y. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 00:31:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnUE7-0001XM-Js for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:31:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA01846 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFB5204A9; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719612043A; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:31:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FDC420484 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12432049D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1DnUD8-000DEf-EP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:30:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j5T4U0p24398; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:30:02 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: "Sood, Kapil" Cc: eap@frascone.com, Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client In-Reply-To: <0604335B7764D141945E2021531059600541FB7B@orsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: References: <0604335B7764D141945E2021531059600541FB7B@orsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE > What is the difference between the EAP Authenticator (which I believe is = defined above) > and the 802.1X Authenticator, vis-=E0-vis 802.11i model? Assume a CAPWAP architecture where the lighweight AP handles 802.1X, but shuttles EAP packets back to the WLAN switch (rather than sending 802.1X packets to the switch). The WLAN switch holds the local credentials and/or acts as a AAA client. In this situation, wouldn't the lightweight AP be an 802.1X authenticator, but not an EAP authenticator? If there is no AAA operating (e.g. local user), the EAP authenticator has to be the entity that holds the local credentials, because that's where EAP authentication terminates. Yet that entity is not the lightweight AP, it is the WLAN switch. On the other hand, the lightweight AP does house the 802.1X port, and it does terminate the 802.11/802.1X link. Does this make sense? The only other way to interpret this would be to call the lightweight AP an EAP authenticator, and then the WLAN switch becomes the EAP server in a non-AAA case. When the WLAN switch does AAA, the AAA server houses the EAP server, so then I don't know what you would call the WLAN switch :) _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 00:48:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnUUb-0006FW-7c for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:48:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA02660 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFD4204BF; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6FB20484; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:48:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31C020484 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09E22043A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1DnUUH-000GMx-8Q; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:47:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j5T4ljN25563; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:47:46 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: jmandin@streetwaves-networks.com Cc: Alper Yegin , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <00d701c57c27$32d006f0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:47:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > I think that's correct: RFC 3748 invokes the 802.1x definition in > which the Authenticator is the entity that "flips the switch" > controlling port access. So the CAPWAP (or Wimax NWG) scenario would > be viewed as including a single authenticator - whose functionality > happens to be divided between more than one physical box. RFC 3748 does use this definition, but I'm not clear that in every CAPWAP scenario that the entity that "flips the switch" is the same entity that would hold local credentials where no AAA is present. Maybe we get around this by calling the combination of the lightweight APs and WLAN switch "the authenticator" without getting into its internal structure. This is easier in some ways -- if we don't care how an AP circuit board is laid out (e.g. does it have two processors? If so, which one is the "authenticator?") why do we care about the decomposition of a CAPWAP system? For example, if I put a big black box around a CAPWAP system of lightweight APs and WLAN switches, could you tell the difference between that and separate APs that utilize clustering to appear as one "authenticator"? Assuming that both systems utilize a single NAS-ID attribute with RADIUS, and advertise that ID on the link layer side and keep the key cache consistent with that view, I don't see how a peer could tell the difference. Note that both systems could utilize multiple NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address attributes (even a single AP could have multiple IP addresses; one IPv4 & one IPv6 for a dual stack host, or more of both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses if the AP is a member of multiple VLANs). > Tangentially: if we did begin to decompose the authenticator the > 802.16e secure association protocol would most naturally seem to take > place in the "EAP lower layer" since it is based on the port specific > AK rather than the PMK. I think it is definitely in the "lower layer" even if we don't decompose it :) > But if any entity can simply claim to belong to the same > Authenticator (ie. "NAS-ID") I'm not sure how much has been gained. The advertisement of the NAS-ID by the authenticator is largely a key cache efficiency issue. A bogus NAS-ID advertisement can induce a peer to utilize a key in a conversation that it otherwise would not expose to potential attack. However, that can happen without a NAS-ID (e.g. in 802.11i, a peer can advertise a PMKID that is not in the APs cache, and if the AP selected that PMKID, the peer would attempt to complete a 4-way handshake with it (and fail). If the NAS claims a bogus NAS-ID to the peer, then this can be discovered via Channel Bindings. If the NAS claims a bogus NAS-ID to AAA, then the AAA proxy can figure that out. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 05:17:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnYgv-0007hJ-D5 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:17:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA25501 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F13204B2; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F932043A; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:17:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C631F2043A for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext01.nokia.com (mgw-ext01.nokia.com [131.228.20.93]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62C82024F for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext01.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5T9GVGm000748; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:32 +0300 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:31 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:31 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Question on EAP statemachine Thread-Index: AcV78tGNtLeT0lFjTo2od6or1Ukf6wAkSNLA From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2005 09:16:31.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CF49F10:01C57C8B] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:31 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, There is no such thing as an "EAP-start" packet in EAP. 802.1X does have an EAPOL-Start packet, but it is sent=20 by the 802.1X supplicant (peer); RADIUS (RFC3579) has an EAP-Start message, but it is sent by the RADIUS client. How multiple EAP conversations are handled depends a lot on the lower layer in question. For instance, PANA has=20 explicit support for two separate EAP conversations. Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:05 PM > To: npetroni@cs.umd.edu; Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); > jrv@umich.edu; yohba@tari.toshiba.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: Question on EAP statemachine >=20 >=20 >=20 > EAP conversation starts when the EAP-server sends the > EAP-start packet to the peer and it ends when the > EAP-server sends the EAP-success or EAP-failure packet to > the peer. As per RFC 3748, only one authentication method > is allowed to be negotiated within this conversation. >=20 > Consider a case, where=20 > 1. EAP-server (E1) authenticates the peer by negotiating > the EAP authentication method (say, A1) and sends the > EAP-success (with an identifier value, say 10).=20 > 2. Another EAP-server (E2) is in the netowrk > 3. Lets assume that E1 can communicate some EAP negotiated > information to the E2 >=20 > Question 1: >=20 > Can EAP-server (E2) start a new EAP negotiation with the > peer by sending an Identity request pacekt or an EAP-start > packet?=20 >=20 > Thus, the peer would receive an EAP-sucecss packet followed > by an EAP Identity request or an EAP-start packet. >=20 > Question 2: > What should the EAP-server (E2) send to the peer in order > to rekindle the negotiation? an EAP identity request or > EAP-start packet?=20 >=20 > If E1 has already conveyed the user-identity (or contents > of Type-Data field in the EAP Identity response) to E2 then > E2 can skip the identity exchange and proceed with the > EAP-start packet. It can help us save the user interaction. >=20 > Question 3: > What should be the identifier value of the EAP identity > request or the EAP-start packet? (11?, if identifier value > of the earlier EAP-success was 10) or (any value, say 1) >=20 > Question 4: > Can EAP-server (E2) negotiate a different EAP > authentication method (say, A2) with the peer? >=20 > I could not discern this information from the peer > statemachine and wanted to touchbase with you since lot of > peer implementations would be based on it. >=20 > Your responses are appreciated. >=20 > Thanks > Mahesh >=20 >=20 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > M a h e s h V K e l k a r _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 09:40:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DncnT-0001sX-0G for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:40:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19152 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74338204CF; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C098204A9; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:40:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8838A204A9 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.252]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 71DAB1FE09 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28267 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2005 13:38:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ftRCb55R7o0v8U2tMBSb/WEuFAPmnd/IIgMCpPCdvzaWBYfrOU0q1jXRBosHYzxjVvOMsg95PhqxgcDyJdagb7mACri4A2szDiSIn/rjK5KR9L5DMuOcxbfu0auDei8rF3r1t+bY7maphnvPQLPM2s0RAhuFfWlb0WcmoTWFsd0= ; Message-ID: <20050629133856.28265.qmail@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.194.140.2] by web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:38:56 PDT From: Mahesh Kelkar To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:38:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pasi, Sorry about that; by EAP-start I meant the first EAP request packet originating from the backend authetntication server (assuming that authenticator & backend authentication servers are different & EAP-server resides on the backend authetnication server). Ex. EAP-TLS sets the start bit of the first EAP-TLS packet and hence I used the name EAP-start packet. I was trying to elaborate the defintion of EAP conversation and wanted to get some feedback on it. I wanted to find out if we can negotiate EAP twice (or multiple times, one after the other and not the simultaneous). Does peer statemachine support that? Can we use different authentication methods for each EAP negotiation.? etc. Thanks Mahesh --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > Hi, > > There is no such thing as an "EAP-start" packet in EAP. > 802.1X does have an EAPOL-Start packet, but it is sent > by the 802.1X supplicant (peer); RADIUS (RFC3579) has > an EAP-Start message, but it is sent by the RADIUS > client. > > How multiple EAP conversations are handled depends a lot > on the lower layer in question. For instance, PANA has > explicit support for two separate EAP conversations. > > Best regards, > Pasi > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:05 PM > > To: npetroni@cs.umd.edu; Eronen Pasi > (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); > > jrv@umich.edu; yohba@tari.toshiba.com; eap@frascone.com > > Subject: Question on EAP statemachine > > > > > > > > EAP conversation starts when the EAP-server sends the > > EAP-start packet to the peer and it ends when the > > EAP-server sends the EAP-success or EAP-failure packet > to > > the peer. As per RFC 3748, only one authentication > method > > is allowed to be negotiated within this conversation. > > > > Consider a case, where > > 1. EAP-server (E1) authenticates the peer by > negotiating > > the EAP authentication method (say, A1) and sends the > > EAP-success (with an identifier value, say 10). > > 2. Another EAP-server (E2) is in the netowrk > > 3. Lets assume that E1 can communicate some EAP > negotiated > > information to the E2 > > > > Question 1: > > > > Can EAP-server (E2) start a new EAP negotiation with > the > > peer by sending an Identity request pacekt or an > EAP-start > > packet? > > > > Thus, the peer would receive an EAP-sucecss packet > followed > > by an EAP Identity request or an EAP-start packet. > > > > Question 2: > > What should the EAP-server (E2) send to the peer in > order > > to rekindle the negotiation? an EAP identity request or > > EAP-start packet? > > > > If E1 has already conveyed the user-identity (or > contents > > of Type-Data field in the EAP Identity response) to E2 > then > > E2 can skip the identity exchange and proceed with the > > EAP-start packet. It can help us save the user > interaction. > > > > Question 3: > > What should be the identifier value of the EAP identity > > request or the EAP-start packet? (11?, if identifier > value > > of the earlier EAP-success was 10) or (any value, say > 1) > > > > Question 4: > > Can EAP-server (E2) negotiate a different EAP > > authentication method (say, A2) with the peer? > > > > I could not discern this information from the peer > > statemachine and wanted to touchbase with you since lot > of > > peer implementations would be based on it. > > > > Your responses are appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Mahesh > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > M a h e s h V K e l k a r > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M a h e s h V K e l k a r __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From haven203728sukjae@beeline-software.com Wed Jun 29 09:55:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnd2d-0007ba-Pz; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:55:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21035; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200506291354.JAA21035@ietf.org> Received: from [218.232.149.8] (helo=SAMSUNG-K1XIRI4) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DndR9-00078t-63; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:21:16 -0400 Received: from hooves.mcc-care.com (218.232.149.8) by 218.232.149.8 (nebula 14) with SMTP id <319G66k>; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:50:28 -0300 Reply-To: "svensson severn" From: "svensson severn" To: ietfauto@ietf.org Cc: disman@ietf.org, ietf-web@ietf.org, speechsc@ietf.org, adslmib-admin@ietf.org, secdir-admin@ietf.org, secdir@ietf.org, routing-discussion-request@ietf.org, l2tpext-admin@ietf.org, iptel-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, ipoverib-admin@ietf.org, dccp-request@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org Subject: Money: $31841 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:57:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--74271_8022880.FN52" X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 ----74271_8022880.FN52 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dear Applicant,

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    not interested? -> www.wsrefi.net/book.php ----74271_8022880.FN52-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 09:56:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnd2y-0007i3-0I for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:56:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21586 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F44204D3; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53AD2204C8; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:56:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37AA204C8 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext03.nokia.com (mgw-ext03.nokia.com [131.228.20.95]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9E8204C6 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext03.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5TDqGgi013677; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:52:25 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:55:01 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:55:01 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Question on EAP statemachine Thread-Index: AcV8sAx/qCJd56zRTtGgyXZRuQ8glQAAJslA From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2005 13:55:01.0602 (UTC) FILETIME=[24F58420:01C57CB2] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:55:00 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mahesh, Negotiating the use of EAP and triggering the start of an EAP conversation happens in the lower layer outside EAP, so it's really beyond the scope of the peer state machine. But I don't think there's anything in draft-ietf-eap-statemachine=20 that would prevent a lower layer from having several separate EAP=20 conversations, either in sequence like (in PANA), or in parallel=20 (in which case you need multiple "instances" of the state machine). Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:39 PM > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine >=20 >=20 > Pasi, >=20 > Sorry about that; by EAP-start I meant the first EAP > request packet originating from the backend authetntication > server (assuming that authenticator & backend > authentication servers are different & EAP-server resides > on the backend authetnication server). Ex. EAP-TLS sets the > start bit of the first EAP-TLS packet and hence I used the > name EAP-start packet. >=20 > I was trying to elaborate the defintion of EAP conversation > and wanted to get some feedback on it.=20 >=20 > I wanted to find out if we can negotiate EAP twice (or > multiple times, one after the other and not the > simultaneous). Does peer statemachine support that? Can we > use different authentication methods for each EAP > negotiation.? etc.=20 >=20 > Thanks > Mahesh >=20 > --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > There is no such thing as an "EAP-start" packet in EAP. > > 802.1X does have an EAPOL-Start packet, but it is sent=20 > > by the 802.1X supplicant (peer); RADIUS (RFC3579) has > > an EAP-Start message, but it is sent by the RADIUS > > client. > >=20 > > How multiple EAP conversations are handled depends a lot > > on the lower layer in question. For instance, PANA has=20 > > explicit support for two separate EAP conversations. > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Pasi _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 10:27:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DndWw-0000Iv-W9 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25293 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F375204DD; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A76204CE; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:27:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C99204CE for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.140]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AD3D20484 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17765 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2005 14:26:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=V+J8CcGYcAeJKIdOYWmNpCht3QU6nhI7gVnsFCZeWB3miS6bd2Ap/DfnmUDZz+hV6ADPi5PPqA7z7GAOGB0i9+Wp+tbwqaY3gbfj2+ejm8rgjv1xMCKFH0eeEh+OuPB6u6wIOXE3nFA9uSl7VIErIQnw3brGUMaI6FsKYe/P+EU= ; Message-ID: <20050629142635.17763.qmail@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.194.140.2] by web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:26:35 PDT From: Mahesh Kelkar To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:26:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pasi, This particular example refers to the L2tp setup as described below Peer LAC LNS |---- PPP----| | | | | | |---- PPP/L2TP ----| | | | | |<--L2TP Tunnel--->| | | |<---------PPP Session--------->| | | The peer first negotiates PPP-LCP with the LAC; then LAC negotiates the EAP with the Peer (or acts as a paas-thru); As an outcome of the successful authentication, the LAC tunnels PPP session to the LNS; and now LNS starts negotiating the EAP with the peer; Thus, in this case, the peer negotiates EAP/EAP method with the LAC; receives the EAP-success followed by the EAP request/Identity (or EAP request/auth method) from the LNS. I don't think lower layer would initate the multiple conversations. The peer has a point to point lower layer, hence it would not be able to distinguish if the incoming EAP packets are coming from the LAC or LNS. Hence I was wondering if the statemachine is equiped to handle such a back to back EAP/EAP method negotiations? Thanks Mahesh --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > > Mahesh, > > Negotiating the use of EAP and triggering the start of an > EAP > conversation happens in the lower layer outside EAP, so > it's > really beyond the scope of the peer state machine. > > But I don't think there's anything in > draft-ietf-eap-statemachine > that would prevent a lower layer from having several > separate EAP > conversations, either in sequence like (in PANA), or in > parallel > (in which case you need multiple "instances" of the state > machine). > > Best regards, > Pasi > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 4:39 PM > > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine > > > > > > Pasi, > > > > Sorry about that; by EAP-start I meant the first EAP > > request packet originating from the backend > authetntication > > server (assuming that authenticator & backend > > authentication servers are different & EAP-server > resides > > on the backend authetnication server). Ex. EAP-TLS sets > the > > start bit of the first EAP-TLS packet and hence I used > the > > name EAP-start packet. > > > > I was trying to elaborate the defintion of EAP > conversation > > and wanted to get some feedback on it. > > > > I wanted to find out if we can negotiate EAP twice (or > > multiple times, one after the other and not the > > simultaneous). Does peer statemachine support that? Can > we > > use different authentication methods for each EAP > > negotiation.? etc. > > > > Thanks > > Mahesh > > > > --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > There is no such thing as an "EAP-start" packet in > EAP. > > > 802.1X does have an EAPOL-Start packet, but it is > sent > > > by the 802.1X supplicant (peer); RADIUS (RFC3579) has > > > an EAP-Start message, but it is sent by the RADIUS > > > client. > > > > > > How multiple EAP conversations are handled depends a > lot > > > on the lower layer in question. For instance, PANA > has > > > explicit support for two separate EAP conversations. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Pasi > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M a h e s h V K e l k a r ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 10:54:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DndxJ-0003mZ-On for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:25 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA28633 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB148204FE; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0759F204FA; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B009204DB for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext01.nokia.com (mgw-ext01.nokia.com [131.228.20.93]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08DDF204EF for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext01.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5TErOHL026898; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:53:25 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:53:25 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:53:24 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Question on EAP statemachine Thread-Index: AcV8trTXW/l5ajz6St6Dn5Vm/Dq59QAATAxw From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2005 14:53:24.0664 (UTC) FILETIME=[4CF25B80:01C57CBA] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:53:23 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mahesh, I'm not very familiar with L2TP, but I thought the LAC=20 is "below the PPP layer" (simply forwards PPP frames=20 to the LNS), and thus it does not know anything about EAP? But anyway, determining when a new EAP conversation starts is done outside the peer state machine. If the lower layer can do it, then the state machine supports it (but the lower layer is then responsible for describing how the results of the two EAP conversations should be combined). Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:27 PM > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine >=20 >=20 > Pasi, >=20 > This particular example refers to the L2tp setup as > described below >=20 > Peer LAC LNS > |---- PPP----| | =20 > | | | > | |---- PPP/L2TP ----| > | | | > | |<--L2TP Tunnel--->| > | | > |<---------PPP Session--------->| > | | >=20 > The peer first negotiates PPP-LCP with the LAC; then LAC > negotiates the EAP with the Peer (or acts as a paas-thru); > As an outcome of the successful authentication, the LAC > tunnels PPP session to the LNS; and now LNS starts > negotiating the EAP with the peer; >=20 > Thus, in this case, the peer negotiates EAP/EAP method with > the LAC; receives the EAP-success followed by the EAP > request/Identity (or EAP request/auth method) from the LNS. >=20 > I don't think lower layer would initate the multiple > conversations. The peer has a point to point lower layer, > hence it would not be able to distinguish if the incoming > EAP packets are coming from the LAC or LNS. Hence I was > wondering if the statemachine is equiped to handle such a > back to back EAP/EAP method negotiations? >=20 > Thanks > Mahesh >=20 > --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > Mahesh, > >=20 > > Negotiating the use of EAP and triggering the start of an > > EAP conversation happens in the lower layer outside EAP,=20 > > so it's really beyond the scope of the peer state machine. > >=20 > > But I don't think there's anything in draft-ietf-eap- > > statemachine that would prevent a lower layer from having=20 > > several separate EAP conversations, either in sequence=20 > > like (in PANA), or in parallel in which case you need=20 > > multiple "instances" of the state machine). > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Pasi _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 11:38:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnedd-0002xb-Sn for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:38:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03260 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF6B204FF; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7791E204EC; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:38:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A49C204EC for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.135]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 49D76204EA for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 38260 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2005 15:37:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=r/2azClCsZVEUTvy2FdK6owGycrh5oJkdqZAUfsqd1g596gbNG+5bKMWr7neLvnNU/nVT+kYhnwTX06CaTtdj1Fr72vMQKr0TOWPrUumM7apN6k1KiBIRD7Koq2rqNQT+x1LJc+2uHEa8oo8KIsVRtgSBx/bMFvz/JN7bgmlYSY= ; Message-ID: <20050629153744.38258.qmail@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.194.140.2] by web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:37:43 PDT From: Mahesh Kelkar To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:37:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pasi, L2tp is unawre of EAP and merely forwards the PPP frames from LAC to LNS. LAC & LNS are the terms used for the APs in the context of L2tp protocol. If for some reason, we MUST not allow the back to back EAP protocol/method negotiations, then following discussion it out of question. I am just wanted to find out if its conceivable. In the peer statemachine on page 8 of the pdf version of the draft: on the receipt of the EAP request there are several condition checks. The couple of conditions are as follows Condition 1:- rxReq && (reqId != lastId) && (selectedMethod == None) && (reqMethod != IDENTITY) && (reqMethod != NOTIFICATION) Condition 2:- rxReq && (reqId != lastId) && (selectedMethod == None) && (reqMethod == IDENTITY) These 2 conditions prohibit the back to back negotiation of the EAP protocol/auth methods. If we want to allow the back to back negotiations then perhaps we should remove the (Selected == None) checks from these two conditions or add two more conditions as follows Condition 1A:- rxReq && (reqId != lastId) && (selectedMethod != None) && (methodState == Done) && (reqMethod != IDENTITY) && (reqMethod != NOTIFICATION) && Condition 1A allows the EAP negotiation (by allocMethod) on the receipt of EAP request/auth method (this auth method could be different) only if current negotiation is finished. Condition 2A:- rxReq && (reqId != lastId) && (selectedMethod != None) && (methodState == Done) && (reqMethod == IDENTITY) Condition 2A is optional because it could help us avoid an extra user interaction. But this condition would allow the peer to respond to the EAP request/Identity received after the conclusion of the earlier EAP negitiation. Any successive authentication failure MUST result into a failure. During the back to back EAP protocol/method negotiation eapRestart & potEnabled flags remain UP. i.e the intial negotiation was intiated by the lower layer. But lower layer should be unaware of the any successive negotiations. Thanks Mahesh --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > Mahesh, > > I'm not very familiar with L2TP, but I thought the LAC > is "below the PPP layer" (simply forwards PPP frames > to the LNS), and thus it does not know anything about > EAP? > > But anyway, determining when a new EAP conversation > starts > is done outside the peer state machine. If the lower > layer > can do it, then the state machine supports it (but the > lower layer is then responsible for describing how the > results of the two EAP conversations should be combined). > > Best regards, > Pasi > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:27 PM > > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine > > > > > > Pasi, > > > > This particular example refers to the L2tp setup as > > described below > > > > Peer LAC LNS > > |---- PPP----| | > > | | | > > | |---- PPP/L2TP ----| > > | | | > > | |<--L2TP Tunnel--->| > > | | > > |<---------PPP Session--------->| > > | | > > > > The peer first negotiates PPP-LCP with the LAC; then > LAC > > negotiates the EAP with the Peer (or acts as a > paas-thru); > > As an outcome of the successful authentication, the LAC > > tunnels PPP session to the LNS; and now LNS starts > > negotiating the EAP with the peer; > > > > Thus, in this case, the peer negotiates EAP/EAP method > with > > the LAC; receives the EAP-success followed by the EAP > > request/Identity (or EAP request/auth method) from the > LNS. > > > > I don't think lower layer would initate the multiple > > conversations. The peer has a point to point lower > layer, > > hence it would not be able to distinguish if the > incoming > > EAP packets are coming from the LAC or LNS. Hence I > was > > wondering if the statemachine is equiped to handle such > a > > back to back EAP/EAP method negotiations? > > > > Thanks > > Mahesh > > > > --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Mahesh, > > > > > > Negotiating the use of EAP and triggering the start > of an > > > EAP conversation happens in the lower layer outside > EAP, > > > so it's really beyond the scope of the peer state > machine. > > > > > > But I don't think there's anything in draft-ietf-eap- > > > statemachine that would prevent a lower layer from > having > > > several separate EAP conversations, either in > sequence > > > like (in PANA), or in parallel in which case you need > > > > multiple "instances" of the state machine). > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Pasi > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M a h e s h V K e l k a r ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 11:51:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DneqC-0007ry-Se for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:51:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04518 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:51:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFD320502; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E32D204FE; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:51:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2340204FC for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext01.nokia.com (mgw-ext01.nokia.com [131.228.20.93]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00A820508 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext01.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5TFoMn8032667; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:50:28 +0300 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:50:27 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:50:27 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Question on EAP statemachine Thread-Index: AcV8wMpzfa0OKfM7Sqq3722fjSz/hgAADmcg From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2005 15:50:27.0180 (UTC) FILETIME=[44ECDAC0:01C57CC2] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:50:26 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mahesh, Using multiple authentication methods in a single EAP conversation is explicitly prohibited by RFC 3748. So if multiple authentication methods are used, they=20 have to be in separate EAP conversations (like in PANA), and the lower layer has to be aware of these. (Unless a "tunneled" method is used; but that's a single=20 authentication method from RFC 3748 point of view.) Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:38 PM > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine >=20 >=20 > Pasi, >=20 > L2tp is unawre of EAP and merely forwards the PPP frames > from LAC to LNS. LAC & LNS are the terms used for the APs > in the context of L2tp protocol.=20 >=20 > If for some reason, we MUST not allow the back to back EAP > protocol/method negotiations, then following discussion it > out of question. I am just wanted to find out if its > conceivable. >=20 > In the peer statemachine on page 8 of the pdf version of > the draft:=20 >=20 > on the receipt of the EAP request there are several > condition checks. The couple of conditions are as follows >=20 > Condition 1:- > rxReq && > (reqId !=3D lastId) && > (selectedMethod =3D=3D None) && > (reqMethod !=3D IDENTITY) && > (reqMethod !=3D NOTIFICATION) >=20 > Condition 2:- > rxReq && > (reqId !=3D lastId) && > (selectedMethod =3D=3D None) && > (reqMethod =3D=3D IDENTITY) >=20 > These 2 conditions prohibit the back to back negotiation of > the EAP protocol/auth methods. If we want to allow the back > to back negotiations then perhaps we should remove the > (Selected =3D=3D None) checks from these two conditions or add > two more conditions as follows >=20 > Condition 1A:- > rxReq && > (reqId !=3D lastId) && > (selectedMethod !=3D None) && > (methodState =3D=3D Done) && > (reqMethod !=3D IDENTITY) && > (reqMethod !=3D NOTIFICATION) && >=20 > Condition 1A allows the EAP negotiation (by allocMethod) on > the receipt of EAP request/auth method (this auth method > could be different) only if current negotiation is > finished. >=20 > Condition 2A:- > rxReq && > (reqId !=3D lastId) && > (selectedMethod !=3D None) && > (methodState =3D=3D Done) && > (reqMethod =3D=3D IDENTITY) >=20 > Condition 2A is optional because it could help us avoid an > extra user interaction. But this condition would allow the > peer to respond to the EAP request/Identity received after > the conclusion of the earlier EAP negitiation. >=20 > Any successive authentication failure MUST result into a > failure. >=20 > During the back to back EAP protocol/method negotiation > eapRestart & potEnabled flags remain UP. i.e the intial > negotiation was intiated by the lower layer. But lower > layer should be unaware of the any successive negotiations. >=20 >=20 > Thanks > Mahesh _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 12:06:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnf4l-0002Wc-Sp for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:06:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05844 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367C8204FE; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BA7204EF; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:06:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 095DD204EF for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289C22039D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j5TG5Nrr006502; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:23 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j5TG5Ngt002406; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp2.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.166.115] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id BAA02399 ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:23 +0900 Received: from mx2.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j5TG5Me1012504; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsb-sgw2.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j5TG5MON024312; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpo1.po.toshiba.co.jp by tsb-sgw2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j5TG5MdF011835; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([172.30.24.113]) by tsbpo1.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.01.13.19.49.p4) with ESMTP id <0IIU00HQOSORSS@tsbpo1.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:05:17 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1DndXM-00011k-00; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:27:36 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine In-reply-to: <20050629133856.28265.qmail@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Mahesh Kelkar Cc: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050629142736.GH2982@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i References: <20050629133856.28265.qmail@web30714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:27:36 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 06:38:56AM -0700, Mahesh Kelkar wrote: > Pasi, > > Sorry about that; by EAP-start I meant the first EAP > request packet originating from the backend authetntication > server (assuming that authenticator & backend > authentication servers are different & EAP-server resides > on the backend authetnication server). Ex. EAP-TLS sets the > start bit of the first EAP-TLS packet and hence I used the > name EAP-start packet. > > I was trying to elaborate the defintion of EAP conversation > and wanted to get some feedback on it. > > I wanted to find out if we can negotiate EAP twice (or > multiple times, one after the other and not the > simultaneous). Does peer statemachine support that? Can we > use different authentication methods for each EAP > negotiation.? etc. Yes, you can do that. Please see draft-ietf-pana-statemachine-00.txt for an example of how to do it using the EAP state machine. Yoshihiro Ohba > > Thanks > Mahesh > > --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > There is no such thing as an "EAP-start" packet in EAP. > > 802.1X does have an EAPOL-Start packet, but it is sent > > by the 802.1X supplicant (peer); RADIUS (RFC3579) has > > an EAP-Start message, but it is sent by the RADIUS > > client. > > > > How multiple EAP conversations are handled depends a lot > > on the lower layer in question. For instance, PANA has > > explicit support for two separate EAP conversations. > > > > Best regards, > > Pasi > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:05 PM > > > To: npetroni@cs.umd.edu; Eronen Pasi > > (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); > > > jrv@umich.edu; yohba@tari.toshiba.com; eap@frascone.com > > > Subject: Question on EAP statemachine > > > > > > > > > > > > EAP conversation starts when the EAP-server sends the > > > EAP-start packet to the peer and it ends when the > > > EAP-server sends the EAP-success or EAP-failure packet > > to > > > the peer. As per RFC 3748, only one authentication > > method > > > is allowed to be negotiated within this conversation. > > > > > > Consider a case, where > > > 1. EAP-server (E1) authenticates the peer by > > negotiating > > > the EAP authentication method (say, A1) and sends the > > > EAP-success (with an identifier value, say 10). > > > 2. Another EAP-server (E2) is in the netowrk > > > 3. Lets assume that E1 can communicate some EAP > > negotiated > > > information to the E2 > > > > > > Question 1: > > > > > > Can EAP-server (E2) start a new EAP negotiation with > > the > > > peer by sending an Identity request pacekt or an > > EAP-start > > > packet? > > > > > > Thus, the peer would receive an EAP-sucecss packet > > followed > > > by an EAP Identity request or an EAP-start packet. > > > > > > Question 2: > > > What should the EAP-server (E2) send to the peer in > > order > > > to rekindle the negotiation? an EAP identity request or > > > EAP-start packet? > > > > > > If E1 has already conveyed the user-identity (or > > contents > > > of Type-Data field in the EAP Identity response) to E2 > > then > > > E2 can skip the identity exchange and proceed with the > > > EAP-start packet. It can help us save the user > > interaction. > > > > > > Question 3: > > > What should be the identifier value of the EAP identity > > > request or the EAP-start packet? (11?, if identifier > > value > > > of the earlier EAP-success was 10) or (any value, say > > 1) > > > > > > Question 4: > > > Can EAP-server (E2) negotiate a different EAP > > > authentication method (say, A2) with the peer? > > > > > > I could not discern this information from the peer > > > statemachine and wanted to touchbase with you since lot > > of > > > peer implementations would be based on it. > > > > > > Your responses are appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Mahesh > > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > M a h e s h V K e l k a r > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > M a h e s h V K e l k a r > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 12:16:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnfET-0007wr-Cl for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA06584 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12870204FB; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A108420425; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF172039D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:15:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.143]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 73E162026F for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 88412 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2005 16:15:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=om23AOw/iY1r4Sx/qamRbeQ5XL3NgOQ+4RDmKcP/QO0IBC0bc3C+WpGX0Q2zeADh+DQ+FWroEKk9zSUZBbi2/CkAqmOb5CHdZjYMxr+gNbtUptdAAx4OI5DRteeyR5EEtta8RnYjD28hXit/x/y4pdbCUdzjd5I9PbpADGUuwUM= ; Message-ID: <20050629161511.88409.qmail@web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.194.140.2] by web30710.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:15:11 PDT From: Mahesh Kelkar To: Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com, eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:15:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pasi, Great!! thanks. How do you define a single EAP conversation? I mean when would you say that EAP converation is started? and when would you say that EAP conversation is ended? Thanks Mahesh --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: > Mahesh, > > Using multiple authentication methods in a single > EAP conversation is explicitly prohibited by RFC 3748. > > So if multiple authentication methods are used, they > have to be in separate EAP conversations (like in PANA), > and the lower layer has to be aware of these. (Unless > a "tunneled" method is used; but that's a single > authentication method from RFC 3748 point of view.) > > Best regards, > Pasi > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:38 PM > > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine > > > > > > Pasi, > > > > L2tp is unawre of EAP and merely forwards the PPP > frames > > from LAC to LNS. LAC & LNS are the terms used for the > APs > > in the context of L2tp protocol. > > > > If for some reason, we MUST not allow the back to back > EAP > > protocol/method negotiations, then following discussion > it > > out of question. I am just wanted to find out if its > > conceivable. > > > > In the peer statemachine on page 8 of the pdf version > of > > the draft: > > > > on the receipt of the EAP request there are several > > condition checks. The couple of conditions are as > follows > > > > Condition 1:- > > rxReq && > > (reqId != lastId) && > > (selectedMethod == None) && > > (reqMethod != IDENTITY) && > > (reqMethod != NOTIFICATION) > > > > Condition 2:- > > rxReq && > > (reqId != lastId) && > > (selectedMethod == None) && > > (reqMethod == IDENTITY) > > > > These 2 conditions prohibit the back to back > negotiation of > > the EAP protocol/auth methods. If we want to allow the > back > > to back negotiations then perhaps we should remove the > > (Selected == None) checks from these two conditions or > add > > two more conditions as follows > > > > Condition 1A:- > > rxReq && > > (reqId != lastId) && > > (selectedMethod != None) && > > (methodState == Done) && > > (reqMethod != IDENTITY) && > > (reqMethod != NOTIFICATION) && > > > > Condition 1A allows the EAP negotiation (by > allocMethod) on > > the receipt of EAP request/auth method (this auth > method > > could be different) only if current negotiation is > > finished. > > > > Condition 2A:- > > rxReq && > > (reqId != lastId) && > > (selectedMethod != None) && > > (methodState == Done) && > > (reqMethod == IDENTITY) > > > > Condition 2A is optional because it could help us avoid > an > > extra user interaction. But this condition would allow > the > > peer to respond to the EAP request/Identity received > after > > the conclusion of the earlier EAP negitiation. > > > > Any successive authentication failure MUST result into > a > > failure. > > > > During the back to back EAP protocol/method negotiation > > eapRestart & potEnabled flags remain UP. i.e the intial > > negotiation was intiated by the lower layer. But lower > > layer should be unaware of the any successive > negotiations. > > > > > > Thanks > > Mahesh > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M a h e s h V K e l k a r ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 12:39:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnfag-0006LG-OS for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:39:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09080 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB632050F; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4B0204FB; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:39:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DECB204FB for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext01.nokia.com (mgw-ext01.nokia.com [131.228.20.93]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59384204F1 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext01.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5TGbvB5009871; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:37:57 +0300 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:37:54 +0300 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:37:53 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Question on EAP statemachine Thread-Index: AcV8xc6mc0//mQtyQOqcgY0Ks4AO0QAAGyvg From: To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2005 16:37:53.0995 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5C259B0:01C57CC8] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP statemachine Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:37:53 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From the peer state machine point of view, the current EAP conversation ends and a new one can begin (on this peer state=20 machine instance) when the lower layer clears portEnabled or sets eapRestart. It's up to the lower layer to define=20 when this happens. =20 For instance, PANA has a special PANA-FirstAuth-End-Request=20 message and a bit in the message header that tells when the=20 first conversation is over and the second one begins. Best regards, Pasi > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Mahesh Kelkar [mailto:mkelkar@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:15 PM > To: Eronen Pasi (Nokia-NRC/Helsinki); eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: Question on EAP statemachine >=20 >=20 > Pasi, >=20 > Great!! thanks. How do you define a single EAP > conversation? I mean when would you say that EAP > converation is started? and when would you say that EAP > conversation is ended? >=20 > Thanks > Mahesh >=20 > --- Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com wrote: >=20 > > Mahesh, > >=20 > > Using multiple authentication methods in a single > > EAP conversation is explicitly prohibited by RFC 3748. > >=20 > > So if multiple authentication methods are used, they=20 > > have to be in separate EAP conversations (like in PANA), > > and the lower layer has to be aware of these. (Unless > > a "tunneled" method is used; but that's a single=20 > > authentication method from RFC 3748 point of view.) > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Pasi _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From dryadic@fadmail.com Wed Jun 29 14:14:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnh3x-0005OU-F0; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:13:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20032; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DnhTX-0001Cx-W0; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:39:57 -0400 Received: from wsip-24-234-102-243.lv.lv.cox.net ([24.234.102.243]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Dnh3t-0007q6-LR; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:13:26 -0400 Received: from baccarat-merj.prlc.net (HELO excel-iftg.net) by larynges-ext.pmyun.net (8.9.0) with ESMTP id CSQ12qfob; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:05:56 +0500 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:06:56 +0100 From: "Lincoln Pittman" Message-ID: <191.58e558d5.2a9DKH44@gny.com> To: eamoby@ietf.org Cc: eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-admin@ietf.org, edu-team-bounces@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org, efkhoipoverib@ietf.org Subject: Become one of the low rates X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 14:19:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnh9U-0006SG-7P for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:19:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20483 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66C5204DB; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81FC2026F; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:19:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D47B2026F for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 301361FC1D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from az33exr02.mot.com (az33exr02.mot.com [10.64.251.232]) by motgate3.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate3) with ESMTP id j5TIUHrg003453 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from il02exm13.corp.mot.com (il02exm13.corp.mot.com [10.0.111.24]) by az33exr02.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5TIMDLk018892 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:22:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: by il02exm13 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:18:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1B631E11D496D711BB2800065BFCB6A11B7A71A3@il02exm13> From: Narayanan Vidya-CVN065 To: "'Bernard Aboba'" , jmandin@streetwaves-networks.com Cc: Alper Yegin , eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:18:30 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > > For example, if I put a big black box around a CAPWAP system > of lightweight APs and WLAN switches, could you tell the > difference between that and separate APs that utilize > clustering to appear as one "authenticator"? Assuming that > both systems utilize a single NAS-ID attribute with RADIUS, > and advertise that ID on the link layer side and keep the key > cache consistent with that view, I don't see how a peer could > tell the difference. Note that both systems could utilize > multiple NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address attributes (even > a single AP could have multiple IP addresses; one IPv4 & one > IPv6 for a dual stack host, or more of both IPv4 and IPv6 > addresses if the AP is a member of multiple VLANs). > If the EAP authenticator has multiple 802.1x authenticators attached to it (as is the case when a WLAN switch is connected to multiple APs), who is defining the interface between the two? IETF is defining the security of the EAP system (for the EAP peer, authenticator and server) and IEEE has defined 802.1x elements (supplicant and authenticator). Good security can be provided when the 802.1x supplicant and EAP peer are the same and the two authenticators are the same. But, when there is no longer a 1-to-1 relationship between the two authenticators, how is proper security ensured? It seems like today, this interface is handled in a proprietary fashion. Could it be that the level of security provided by the EAP method gets compromised in some way when these elements have a 1-to-many mapping? Thanks, Vidya > > Tangentially: if we did begin to decompose the authenticator the > > 802.16e secure association protocol would most naturally > seem to take > > place in the "EAP lower layer" since it is based on the > port specific > > AK rather than the PMK. > > I think it is definitely in the "lower layer" even if we > don't decompose it :) > > > But if any entity can simply claim to belong to the same > Authenticator > > (ie. "NAS-ID") I'm not sure how much has been gained. > > The advertisement of the NAS-ID by the authenticator is > largely a key cache efficiency issue. A bogus NAS-ID > advertisement can induce a peer to utilize a key in a > conversation that it otherwise would not expose to potential > attack. However, that can happen without a NAS-ID (e.g. in > 802.11i, a peer can advertise a PMKID that is not in the APs > cache, and if the AP selected that PMKID, the peer would > attempt to complete a 4-way handshake with it (and fail). > > If the NAS claims a bogus NAS-ID to the peer, then this can > be discovered via Channel Bindings. If the NAS claims a > bogus NAS-ID to AAA, then the AAA proxy can figure that out. > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 16:40:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnjLw-0006MU-26 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:40:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23099 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFF9204F1; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAEC20444; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:40:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D3520444 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (fmr20.intel.com [134.134.136.19]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D525D2027D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (orsfmr101.jf.intel.com [10.7.209.17]) by orsfmr005.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j5TKd6LH005062; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:39:06 GMT Received: from orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com [192.168.65.206]) by orsfmr101.jf.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j5TKd3p1031129; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:39:06 GMT Received: from orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.60]) by orsmsxvs040.jf.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005062913390309025 ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:39:03 -0700 Received: from orsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com ([192.168.65.44]) by orsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:39:03 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Message-ID: <0604335B7764D141945E20215310596005456944@orsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Thread-Index: AcV8Yz0G4O3MhzvcTZm7zBd8GRADpAAhZP2A From: "Sood, Kapil" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: , "Alper Yegin" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jun 2005 20:39:03.0275 (UTC) FILETIME=[961F43B0:01C57CEA] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:38:58 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:aboba@internaut.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 9:30 PM > To: Sood, Kapil > Cc: eap@frascone.com; Alper Yegin > Subject: RE: [eap] Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client >=20 > > What is the difference between the EAP Authenticator (which I = believe is defined above) > > and the 802.1X Authenticator, vis-=E0-vis 802.11i model? >=20 > Assume a CAPWAP architecture where the lighweight AP handles 802.1X, = but > shuttles EAP packets back to the WLAN switch (rather than sending = 802.1X > packets to the switch). The WLAN switch holds the local credentials > and/or acts as a AAA client. >=20 > In this situation, wouldn't the lightweight AP be an 802.1X = authenticator, > but not an EAP authenticator? If there is no AAA operating (e.g. = local > user), the EAP authenticator has to be the entity that holds the local > credentials, because that's where EAP authentication terminates. Yet = that > entity is not the lightweight AP, it is the WLAN switch. On the other > hand, the lightweight AP does house the 802.1X port, and it does = terminate > the 802.11/802.1X link. [Sood, Kapil] 802.11i mentions an "Authenticator and Authentication = Server have established a secure channel", and discussions in 802.11i = make it the beneficiary of the PMKs derived between the STA and AS. One = interpretation is that this party is the AAA Client/EAP Authenticator. = When we split the role of this authenticator, and 802.1X terminator is = the end of the 802.1X link, then the EAP packets have to be encapsulated = in a different form to be sent to this AAA Client/EAP Authenticator. Since, the EAP protocol has 3 parties for key derivation and = distribution, the 3rd party has to be the one that has authenticated = itself with the AS, and whose identity should be bound to the derived = keys. So, I guess, in this discussion the 802.1X authenticator plays no = role in key distribution. >=20 > Does this make sense? The only other way to interpret this would be = to > call the lightweight AP an EAP authenticator, and then the WLAN switch > becomes the EAP server in a non-AAA case. =20 [Sood, Kapil] Changing roles of network entities makes functionality = obscure, and hence, security analysis problematic! When the WLAN switch does AAA, > the AAA server houses the EAP server, so then I don't know what you = would > call the WLAN switch :) [Sood, Kapil] I guess, we would still have to call it the EAP = Authenticator, based on my above discussion :) _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 16:58:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnjdL-0004L7-VQ for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:58:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24952 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33722204F3; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90AB20444; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1769D20444 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E62A2027D for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ep_mmp1 (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IIV005JZ67BW2@mailout2.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:57:11 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.253.155.10]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IIV00CM36761U@mmp1.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:57:11 +0900 (KST) From: Alper Yegin In-reply-to: To: "'Bernard Aboba'" Cc: eap@frascone.com Message-id: <002201c57cec$e65c4560$6401a8c0@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:55:33 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > I guess an explicit NAS-ID needs to be carried by the EAP lower layer > > unless we assume an implicit value (e.g., the MAC address of the 802.11 > > AP). > > I think the authenticator identity needs to be explicitly defined. It > could just be the MAC address but without defining it you get > interoperability problems. I agree. > > As we have discussed in EAP WG, the EAP peer and server are the > > principals in an EAP conversation, and they do not utilize the > > authenticator identity except as an opaque blob for channel bindings. > > > > They do not utilize peer and AAA server identities either. > > EAP methods do export the Peer-ID and the Server-ID, so I'm not sure what > you mean. I was thinking that none of these identities are explicitly carried in EAP headers. Yes, the EAP methods can export the peer and server IDs, much like the EAP lower layer can export the NAS ID. Btw, the former ones are used for key scoping. Isn't this related to where we need to use the NAS ID as well? > > Unless the NAS ports can convey the NAS-ID to the peer before secure > > associations, NAS should also explicitly convey the port IDs in order to > > provide the key cache boundary. What do you think? > > The lower layer spec needs to explicitly define the key > scope/authenticator identity. Typically this is either an address of some > kind (e.g. MAC address) or an identifier (NAS-ID). A port-ID is neither > here nor there -- it doesn't tell the peer if the key derived on port X is > also usable when connecting to port Y. If the NAS has multiple ports (like a CAPWAP AC controlling multiple APs), key cache boundary is the set of all these ports. For that I think the EAP peer should know the identity of these ports. I think there is one alternative approach. Even if the NAS does not convey the list of ports to the EAP peer, the peer may discover them as it encounters each port. For example, when the peer moves to port Y (from port X where it had performed the EAP authentication), if the port Y can convey the associated NAS ID, then the peer can dynamically discover that it is still within the same key cache boundary. I prefer the first approach where the NAS explicitly conveys the list of ports to the EAP peer. Alper > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Jun 29 17:16:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnjuj-00028t-9Z for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:16:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26331 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB26204F3; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D36C20444; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:16:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7893B20444 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailout1.samsung.com (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDD71FC41 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IIV00CIK71C51@mailout1.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:15:13 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.253.155.10]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0IIV008SD71846@mmp2.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 06:15:12 +0900 (KST) From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client In-reply-to: To: jmandin@streetwaves-networks.com Cc: "'Bernard Aboba'" , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <002601c57cef$6bbbe0b0$6401a8c0@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:13:35 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Jeff, > > If we are going to make a distinction between the "EAP lower layer > > authenticator" and "EAP authenticator", we'd need to define the > > differences, roles, etc.. Btw, note that this is conflicting with the > > definition of "authenticator" in RFC3748 which equates the two. > > I think that's correct: RFC 3748 invokes the 802.1x definition in > which the Authenticator is the entity that "flips the switch" > controlling port access. So the CAPWAP (or Wimax NWG) scenario would > be viewed as including a single authenticator - whose functionality > happens to be divided between more than one physical box. Within the context of the IETF protocols, I perceive this as the "split NAS". "(EAP) authenticator" and "AAA client" parts of the NAS are on one (centralized) node. "NAS ports" are on multiple separate nodes. 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If you wish to stop future mailings, or if you feel you have been wrongfully placed in our membership, send a blank e mail with No Thanks in the sub ject to harelip From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Jun 30 10:48:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Do0Ko-0005jD-NF for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:48:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19774 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE2820527; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFFE204D0; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:48:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5117204D0 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1C1202C0 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p213.54.69.4.tisdip.tiscali.de [213.54.69.4] (helo=p213.54.69.4.tisdip.tiscali.de) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1Do0KZ31Ds-0002WF; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:47:55 +0200 From: Thomas Otto Organization: Thomas Otto To: eap@frascone.com User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506301647.36835.t.otto@sharevolution.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Future of EAP-PSK Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:47:54 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First, a brief technical comment regarding the proposal > It would be worth considering replacing OMAC1 by CMAC. NIST SP800-38B > [2] defines CMAC as the "approved" CBC-MAC variant. OMAC is short for One-Key CBC MAC. There are two variants of OMAC, namely OMAC1 and OMAC2. OMAC1 is equivalent to CMAC. The CMAC mode of authentication is the recommendation of NIST (see SP-800-38B, May 2005). On the OMAC page [1], we find next to a detailed description of OMAC some pointer to OMAC-related material, for instance "Comparison of CBC MAC variants and comments on NIST's consultation paper. Comment to NIST (2003/05/05)" by T. Iwata [2]. The author compares RMAC,EMAC, XCBC, TMAC and OMAC. In the conclusion section, he emphasizes that OMAC gives the best performance and provide an equal security to EMAC, XCBC and TMAC. With regard to implementations, OMAC1 is recommended. So, OMAC1 has been a good choice. Since EAX relies on OMAC1, the EAX mode of encryption should be maintained. [1] http://crypt.cis.ibaraki.ac.jp/omac/omac.html [2] http://crypt.cis.ibaraki.ac.jp/omac/docs/omac-cm2.pdf Open question to the authors of EAP-PSK: Florent, Hannes, do you have solutions regarding the open issues with EAP-PSK? Your comments failed to appear since the expert review was published, which I find quite strange, since the issues mentioned in the review sound serious. Although I do not hope, it seems that it lacks somehow of motivation to finish EAP-PSK. I would highly appreciate if you tell the EAP WG your plans regarding EAP-PSK. Probably, the advantage to build a nice protocol around a single cryptographic component is not as worthful as the fact to switch between public key and shared key, and to provide features as PFS, provisioning and identity hiding, as EAP-PAX does so. I think this tug-of-war of efficiency vs. security must be analyzed in a broader scope (see also draft-salowey-guam-00.txt). Weak credentials like a four digit PIN are very common today. This morning, I attempted to make wpa_supplicant and freeradius ready to perform EAP-PSK. It has been cumbersome to type in the 16byte preshared key (since hex, these are 32 chars). The feature to begin (at the very first authentication) with a weak credential, which is though most human friendly, which is immediately transformed into a more secure one was first claimed by EAP-FAST (concept of PAC). So, it appears that EAP-PAX wants to place in the mid between EAP-FAST (lot of features, most requiring asymmetric crypto) and EAP-PSK (simplicity, only symmetric crypto). So, depending on the situation, a fast and less secure authentication as well as a few efficient but more secure authentication is possible. This is also the idea behind SKEME, the Secure Key Exchange Mechanism Protocol, developed by IBM in 1996, which serves as theoretical background for my own (probably too academic) EAP method EAP-SKL. To conclude, I hope the discussion about preshared key methods becomes more active, that we get soon a mature, secure pre-shared key EAP method, and - from the customer's point of view - becomes as soon as possible available in implementations. Thomas _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Jun 30 12:27:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Do1sb-0001vL-5d for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:27:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00060 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9976204D0; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7002B20484; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:27:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB3B20484 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.58]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585ED1FFF2 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j5UGJitS027338; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:19:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Clancy X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: Thomas Otto Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Future of EAP-PSK In-Reply-To: <200506301647.36835.t.otto@sharevolution.de> Message-ID: References: <200506301647.36835.t.otto@sharevolution.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > So, it appears that EAP-PAX wants to place in the mid between EAP-FAST > (lot of features, most requiring asymmetric crypto) and EAP-PSK > (simplicity, only symmetric crypto). So, depending on the situation, a > fast and less secure authentication as well as a few efficient but more > secure authentication is possible. Simplicity plus features was indeed the design goal behind EAP-PAX. However, I wouldn't call the "fast" version of PAX "less secure". Cryptographically, the PAX_STD is just as strong -- it just can't be used if you want identity protection or during an initial provisioning. > To conclude, I hope the discussion about preshared key methods becomes > more active, that we get soon a mature, secure pre-shared key EAP > method, and - from the customer's point of view - becomes as soon as > possible available in implementations. I think that in order for people to really get involved in any EAP method development at all, there needs to be a WG chartered with that responsibility. I understand that SECMETH may eventually take on that task, but it will be quite some time before they'll be working on concrete protocols. To echo an opinion Jari has expressed several times, I think the EAP WG should take on a couple of the simpler protocols whose authors have requested standards-track WG action. This would serve to get some decent methods out there until SECMETH fully gears up. [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap