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Please click below and check out our offer. http://orville.paln.org/pharmacy/heh/ leather bernet einsteinian crafty debut corrosion value atrocity bulge usable delouse cleric quiz carbide cling beatrice codon hefty jim cycle compost staff practitioner implement pudding voracious chromosome concept barton condensible monomer diorama breeches defend apologia litterbug horizon nude engle goff stevens panther divorce albanian blastula delphic fork suey contour cauliflower ptarmigan winters dissertation bundle From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 01 03:48:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DzV1r-0002uX-RK for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:48:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02224 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 03:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E9F2045F; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 03:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35FB20446; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 03:48:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3355220446 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 03:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F40C2036A for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 03:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Aug 2005 00:47:32 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j717lVJL015215; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 00:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmb-sjc-215.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.169]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 1 Aug 2005 00:47:31 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <4C0FAAC489C8B74F96BEAD85EAEB262551CC02@xmb-sjc-215.amer.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: Expert review of draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-02.txt Thread-Index: AcWWbT/OAk27XpdjTQurDfiGtcuyOA== X-Message-Flag: Follow up Reply-By: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:00:00 -0700 From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: Cc: "Jari Arkko" , "Bernard Aboba" , "Glen Zorn (gwz)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Aug 2005 07:47:31.0474 (UTC) FILETIME=[45B0BF20:01C5966D] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Expert review of draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-02.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 00:47:21 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable EAP Type Code Allocation Review Template As noted in RFC 3748, for EAP methods to obtain a=20 Type Code, Expert Review with Specification is required. The following list of issues is provided as a guideline to potential expert reviewers and method authors. =20 1. Does the method document its security properties in sufficient manner, as required by Section 7.2 of RFC 3748? [gwz] Yes and no: although all of the required sections are present, the method in fact appears to possess no security properties of its own; those security properties that are claimed (see below) are possessed by smart cards, not by the EAP-SC method. 1a. Mechanism. Is the mechanism explained? [gwz] Yes and no: this document does not actually define an authentication mechanism, nor does it define EAP support for any particular authentication mechanism. What it does define is a method for demultiplexing EAP type packets on the peer (this does not appear to be necessary on the authenticator side). This demultiplexing method is explained adequately. 1b. Security claims. Are the claimed and not claimed properties listed? [gwz] Yes. 1c. Justifications for the claims? Is an explanation or reference provided to each of the claims? [gwz] Yes and no: the references for those claims that are made (for Confidentiality, Key Derivation, Dictionary Attacks, Cryptographic Binding and Channel Binding) are internal to the document itself and refer to (claimed) properties of smart cards in general, rather than EAP-SC per se. 1d. Key strength. Is the key strength documented? [gwz] N/A. 1e. Description of key hierarchy. Is the key hierarchy documented? [gwz] N/A. [Optional, at least for now: does it conform to EAP keying framework?] [gwz] N/A. 1f. Indication of vulnerabilities. Are the known vulnerabilities documented? [gwz] Much space is dedicated in this document to the praise of the security capabilities claimed by smart cards; without discussing the validity of those claims, it appears that EAP-SC itself provides no assurance or even evidence of the actual presence or usage of a smart card in the peer system. For enable, I can find no protection against a Trojan horse, for example, having access to appropriate credentials claiming to be an EAP-SC client in the absence of a smart card. [Note: it seems unreasonable to require the documentation of unknown vulnerabilities :-) The "known" may of course be "known to reviewer" or "known to author" or "known to the community", but that appears to be best we can do.] 2. Compliance with EAP packet formats 2a. Does the method comply with the packet formats defined in Section 4 of RFC 3748? [gwz] Yes. 3. Compliance with EAP behavior 3a. Does the method comply with Success/Failure usage as defined in Sections 2, 2.2, and 4.2? [gwz] N/A. 3b. Does the method comply with sequence usage as defined in Section 2.1 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 3c. Does the method comply with request/response processing rules as defined in Section 4.1 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 3d. Does the method comply with retransmission rules as defined in Section 4.3 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 3e. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Identity, as defined in Section 5.1 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 3f. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Notification, as defined in Section 5.2 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 3g. Does the method comply with the usage defined for Nak and Expanded-Nak as defined in Section 5.3 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 3h. Does the method comply with the MIC usage requirements from Sections 3.1, 7.5, and 7.8 of RFC 3748? [gwz] N/A. 4. Compliance with IANA requirements 4a. Does the method comply with EAP-based IANA requirements defined in Section 6 of RFC 3748? That is, if it requests the allocation of new numbers in the EAP namespace [not applicable if the numbers have already been allocated], is the type of the document and process appropriate for the desired action? [gwz] No. 4b. Does the method comply with other IANA requirements in the IETF standards track RFCs?=20 [gwz] Yes. 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If you prefer to be left out of this amazing offer go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XUCAJIEK.QGAJETPP-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 01 11:42:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DzcQc-0007Xb-4f for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 11:42:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18305 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C074D2062B; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F958205C1; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:42:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E72205C1 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DF7204B4 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2B889832; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:40:53 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <42EE4281.3010606@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Clarifications on "Domino Effect" References: <20050731160003.7292.43649.Mailman@xavier> <42ED53E2.10904@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 18:40:49 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: >>Well, yes, but I think the main reason for this requirement >>is physical access. If you grab an access point from a coffee >>shop wall, this should not lead to an uncontained compromise >>of the whole system. >> >> > >This problem statement is somewhat more concrete (and easier to analyze). > >For example, if you grab the access point off the wall, do you: > >a. Obtain a RADIUS shared secret used by another AP? If good RADIUS >secret hygene is being used, then the answer is no. > > Right. >b. Obtain keys useful in compromising another AP? If the EAP method >provides "session independence" I think that obtaining one MSK provides >no useful information to compromise another MSK. Also if the EMSK is >cryptographically independent from the MSK, you can't compromise the EMSK >if the MSK is compromised. > > Right. >c. Obtain keys useful in compromisng an EAP peer or the backend server? > >Assuming that the EAP method is sufficiently robust (e.g. satisfies the >RFC 4017 requirements) I think the answer is "no" to this one too. For >example, the attacker can't do an offline or online dictionary attack, >can't do a brute force attack on the key (assuming the key strength is >sert high enough), etc. > > Right. >>an RFC with WG consensus behind it, it might be an idea >>to define the issue in the keying framework itself. In this particular >>case what we need to do is to go from a general statement "must >>not compromise other nodes" to a set of more specific statements >>that talk about what exact quantities in what exact other nodes >>must not be compromised. While we are at it, we might also state >>that we do not have a requirement on the compromise of the radius >>server being recoverable... >> >> > >Yes, it would be good to have a plan for getting this (and other >requirements issues) settled. The exact nature of the "domino effect" >requirement is important to a number of lower layer attempting to utilize >EAP. > >And the EAP WG is probably as good a place to discuss this as anywhere... > > I'm not necessarily saying that we need to have a long list of requirements imported from Russ'es document. Or a requirements section for that matter. But it would be useful to have a discussion of the compromise issue and other aspects of the system level security model in the doc. Of course, we should not cover the extensions or anything really beyond existing usage. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 01 12:06:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dzcnp-0005DM-U3 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:06:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20556 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E652620659; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0367F20628; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:06:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C957720628 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E16204B4 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1Dzcn1-000Hid-Og; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:05:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j71G5Iu32448; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:05:18 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Clarifications on "Domino Effect" In-Reply-To: <42EE4281.3010606@piuha.net> Message-ID: References: <20050731160003.7292.43649.Mailman@xavier> <42ED53E2.10904@piuha.net> <42EE4281.3010606@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:05:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > I'm not necessarily saying that we need to have a long > list of requirements imported from Russ'es document. > Or a requirements section for that matter. > > But it would be useful to have a discussion of the compromise > issue and other aspects of the system level security model in > the doc. Of course, we should not cover the extensions or > anything really beyond existing usage. I agree that this makes sense. Perhaps what we need to do is develop the "threat model" section and then analyze existing lower layers against those threats, providing concrete examples of how violation of draft-housley principles can lead to issues (if in fact that is the case). This might prove more helpful than just reciting a requirements list. Usually the first question we get from a lower layer designer is "why does this requirement matter to my lower layer?" _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From police@netsearch.org Mon Aug 01 12:47:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DzdRx-0002Sn-5Z; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:47:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23283; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 82-38-40-96.cable.ubr03.brad.blueyonder.co.uk ([82.38.40.96]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DzdyE-0001rw-Fb; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 13:21:00 -0400 Received: (from police@netsearch.org) by police@netsearch.org.ac.za (3.11.6/6.11.0) id g826Fa449106 for police@netsearch.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 18:46:21 +0100 Message-Id: From: "Olga Moreland" Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:42:21 +0300 To: ailserv@ietf.org Subject: Re: Loan request. 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http://www.fastsupermoney.com/2/?m=artemych From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 01 13:58:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DzeYB-0003Af-Jc for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 13:58:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28056 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495CD2065E; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE69420604; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:58:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A178620604 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE387205C1 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B15E89832; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 20:57:19 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <42EE628A.7060504@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Bernard Aboba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] slides for tomorrow's EAP WG meeting Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:57:30 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the slides are at http://www.arkko.com/publications/eap/ietf-63/ and for the rest... please send them to me and Bernard as soon as possible. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 01 16:04:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DzgWD-0001qy-Jq for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:04:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09305 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B24922067B; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4069420667; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:04:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B4720667 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC50620654 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B34789832 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 23:03:24 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <42EE8017.7030906@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-otto-eap-skl-02.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:03:35 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : The EAP-SKL protocol > Author(s) : T. Otto > Filename : draft-otto-eap-skl-02.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2005-8-1 > >This document describes EAP-SKL, an Extensible Authentication > Protocol (EAP) method which provides mutual authentication and key > derivation based on a pre-shared secret. EAP-SKL relies on the > cryptographic protocol SKEME (Secure Key Exchange MEchanism > protocol), and hence may benefit from its simplicity and the provable > security. EAP-SKL complies with the mandatory requirements for an > EAP method which is intented for deployment in Wireless LAN > environments. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otto-eap-skl-02.txt > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Aug 02 06:41:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DzuCw-0002aB-4T for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 06:41:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA07701 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70C820699; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DECB2064F; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:41:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7522064F for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailout1.samsung.com (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D09720507 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKL000Q7CC41C@mailout1.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:40:53 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([106.10.22.13]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0IKL006F5CC02N@mmp2.samsung.com> for eap@frascone.com; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:40:52 +0900 (KST) From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Clarifications on "Domino Effect" In-reply-to: To: "'Bernard Aboba'" , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <000401c5974e$a6add2e0$6b07ff56@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_8BZ1J8Mxsly3TNQuLr+Rdw)" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 03:40:45 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_8BZ1J8Mxsly3TNQuLr+Rdw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > And in other sense, I find the text a bit narrow. Why does it only focus > > on the "authenticator" if we are talking about domino affect? A > > compromised RADIUS relay yields a domino effect as well. > > Right -- and a much worse one because this compromises not only > keys, but also the RADIUS shared secrets, allowing the attacker to forge > RADIUS packets at will to all the NASes associated with that RADIUS proxy. My current thinking is that, instead of singling out "authenticator" and focusing on it, draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt could be talking about key hierarchy, and how compromise of a key (or its possessor) at one level should not lead to compromise of another key (possessor) at the same level or above. Btw, earlier you had proposed: First, an authenticator MUST NOT share any keying material with another authenticator. How can we enforce that in the light of what you described as "clustering" in the attached e-mail? The above strict language is leaving no "legal" room for the practical approach you described in that e-mail. Or, maybe we simply apply this rule to the cluster that appears like a single authenticator? (And within the cluster we are breaking this rule.) I hope we can clarify this as well. Alper --Boundary_(ID_8BZ1J8Mxsly3TNQuLr+Rdw) Content-type: message/rfc822 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:47:44 -0700 From: Bernard Aboba Subject: Re: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client In-reply-to: X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com To: jmandin@streetwaves-networks.com Cc: Alper Yegin , eap@frascone.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ZA7Z8dlwcdGngZoPk5AUlw)" X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-TERRACE-SPAMMARK: NO (SR:16.88) (by Terrace) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com X-MHO-User: aboba X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org References: <00d701c57c27$32d006f0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ZA7Z8dlwcdGngZoPk5AUlw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > I think that's correct: RFC 3748 invokes the 802.1x definition in > which the Authenticator is the entity that "flips the switch" > controlling port access. So the CAPWAP (or Wimax NWG) scenario would > be viewed as including a single authenticator - whose functionality > happens to be divided between more than one physical box. RFC 3748 does use this definition, but I'm not clear that in every CAPWAP scenario that the entity that "flips the switch" is the same entity that would hold local credentials where no AAA is present. Maybe we get around this by calling the combination of the lightweight APs and WLAN switch "the authenticator" without getting into its internal structure. This is easier in some ways -- if we don't care how an AP circuit board is laid out (e.g. does it have two processors? If so, which one is the "authenticator?") why do we care about the decomposition of a CAPWAP system? For example, if I put a big black box around a CAPWAP system of lightweight APs and WLAN switches, could you tell the difference between that and separate APs that utilize clustering to appear as one "authenticator"? Assuming that both systems utilize a single NAS-ID attribute with RADIUS, and advertise that ID on the link layer side and keep the key cache consistent with that view, I don't see how a peer could tell the difference. Note that both systems could utilize multiple NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address attributes (even a single AP could have multiple IP addresses; one IPv4 & one IPv6 for a dual stack host, or more of both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses if the AP is a member of multiple VLANs). > Tangentially: if we did begin to decompose the authenticator the > 802.16e secure association protocol would most naturally seem to take > place in the "EAP lower layer" since it is based on the port specific > AK rather than the PMK. I think it is definitely in the "lower layer" even if we don't decompose it :) > But if any entity can simply claim to belong to the same > Authenticator (ie. "NAS-ID") I'm not sure how much has been gained. The advertisement of the NAS-ID by the authenticator is largely a key cache efficiency issue. A bogus NAS-ID advertisement can induce a peer to utilize a key in a conversation that it otherwise would not expose to potential attack. However, that can happen without a NAS-ID (e.g. in 802.11i, a peer can advertise a PMKID that is not in the APs cache, and if the AP selected that PMKID, the peer would attempt to complete a 4-way handshake with it (and fail). If the NAS claims a bogus NAS-ID to the peer, then this can be discovered via Channel Bindings. If the NAS claims a bogus NAS-ID to AAA, then the AAA proxy can figure that out. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap --Boundary_(ID_ZA7Z8dlwcdGngZoPk5AUlw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Re: [eap] RE: Separation of EAP authenticator and AAA client

> I think that's correct:   RFC 3748 invokes the 802.1x definition in
> which the Authenticator is the entity that "flips the switch"
> controlling port access.  So the CAPWAP (or Wimax NWG) scenario would
> be viewed as including a single authenticator - whose functionality
> happens to be divided between more than one physical box.

RFC 3748 does use this definition, but I'm not clear that in every
CAPWAP scenario that the entity that "flips the switch" is the same entity
that would hold local credentials where no AAA is present.

Maybe we get around this by calling the combination of the lightweight APs
and WLAN switch "the authenticator" without getting into its internal
structure.  This is easier in some ways -- if we don't care how an AP
circuit board is laid out (e.g. does it have two processors? If so, which
one is the "authenticator?") why do we care about the decomposition of a
CAPWAP system?

For example, if I put a big black box around a CAPWAP system of
lightweight APs and WLAN switches, could you tell the difference between
that and separate APs that utilize clustering to appear as one
"authenticator"?  Assuming that both systems utilize a single NAS-ID
attribute with RADIUS, and advertise that ID on the link layer side and
keep the key cache consistent with that view, I don't see how a peer could
tell the difference.  Note that both systems could utilize multiple
NAS-IP-Address and NAS-IPv6-Address attributes (even a single AP could
have multiple IP addresses;  one IPv4 & one IPv6 for a dual stack host, or
more of both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses if the AP is a member of multiple
VLANs).

> Tangentially: if we did begin to decompose the authenticator  the
> 802.16e secure association protocol would most naturally seem to take
> place in the "EAP lower layer" since it is based on the port specific
> AK rather than the PMK.

I think it is definitely in the "lower layer" even if we don't decompose
it :)

> But if any entity can simply claim to belong to the same
> Authenticator (ie. "NAS-ID") I'm not sure how much has been gained.

The advertisement of the NAS-ID by the authenticator is largely a key
cache efficiency issue.  A bogus NAS-ID advertisement can induce a peer to
utilize a key in a conversation that it otherwise would not expose to
potential attack.  However, that can happen without a NAS-ID
(e.g. in 802.11i, a peer can advertise a PMKID that is not in the
APs cache, and if the AP selected that PMKID, the peer would
attempt to complete a 4-way handshake with it (and fail).

If the NAS claims a bogus NAS-ID to the peer, then this can be
discovered via Channel Bindings.  If the NAS claims
a bogus NAS-ID to AAA, then the AAA proxy can figure that out.
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--Boundary_(ID_ZA7Z8dlwcdGngZoPk5AUlw)-- --Boundary_(ID_8BZ1J8Mxsly3TNQuLr+Rdw)-- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Aug 02 09:24:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dzwka-0000rw-4p for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:24:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18428 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E81620699; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8842053A; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:24:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676022053A for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-inet.francetelecom.com [212.234.67.6]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C5120507 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.42] by relais-filtrant-04.francetelecom.fr with ESMTP for eap@frascone.com; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:23:03 +0200 Received: from fedft02a.francetelecom.fr by relais-filtrant-04.francetelecom.fr with ESMTP for eap@frascone.com; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:23:03 +0200 Received: from puexcc51.nanterre.francetelecom.fr by fedft02a.francetelecom.fr with ESMTP for eap@frascone.com; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:22:58 +0200 Received: from PUEXCBI0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr ([10.168.75.55]) by PUEXCC51.nanterre.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:22:49 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5E9EF24983FEBB4BBBC8B55AF35BE880078CC3@PUEXCBI0.nanterre.francetelecom.fr> Thread-Topic: EAP-PSK presentation et IETF 63 Thread-Index: AcWXZURE3Dcn2EaOT0SFyRPXinHiwg== From: "BERSANI Florent SCR/BBES" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2005 13:22:49.0456 (UTC) FILETIME=[475AEF00:01C59765] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] EAP-PSK presentation et IETF 63 Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:22:44 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is available at http://eappsk.chez.tiscali.fr//PreSharedKeyEAPMethods-EAP-PSK-draft08.pp t before Jari posts it on his website. As presented orally, I'll be initiating a tracker tool of open issues that arose during the review and keep the list informed. Best, Florent _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Aug 02 10:42:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dzxy8-0006TO-AU for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:42:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25006 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6956B2064F; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A481820651; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:42:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3ED820651 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.202]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C6A2064F for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i12so1195768wra for ; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nuMW23uRvMJLN7UTOd9IvucEflcNOLVHe4N+cfUhRordxor2Xp7cUrSMHkEcOnSkCv6FIXDeRsibQLziwf6oWNIFiAgPc8GJzSe2tgOEu/fonDUVhc0cK6gtVD3DTS4T1bysYRibat+CSx/aq4LJZY3LkS1wENBDdP+rnaeGgmQ= Received: by 10.54.29.38 with SMTP id c38mr426691wrc; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.79.3 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Clint Chaplin Reply-To: Clint Chaplin To: Jari Arkko Subject: Re: [eap] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-otto-eap-skl-02.txt Cc: eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: <42EE8017.7030906@piuha.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <42EE8017.7030906@piuha.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:41:48 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm getting a 404 not found...... On 8/1/05, Jari Arkko wrote: > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direc= tories. > > > > > > Title : The EAP-SKL protocol > > Author(s) : T. Otto > > Filename : draft-otto-eap-skl-02.txt > > Pages : 20 > > Date : 2005-8-1 > > > >This document describes EAP-SKL, an Extensible Authentication > > Protocol (EAP) method which provides mutual authentication and key > > derivation based on a pre-shared secret. EAP-SKL relies on the > > cryptographic protocol SKEME (Secure Key Exchange MEchanism > > protocol), and hence may benefit from its simplicity and the provable > > security. EAP-SKL complies with the mandatory requirements for an > > EAP method which is intented for deployment in Wireless LAN > > environments. > > > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otto-eap-skl-02.txt > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 --=20 Clint (JOATMON) Chaplin Wireless Security Technologist Wireless Standards Manager _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From PattyHaney@ambermanagement.co.uk Tue Aug 02 12:59:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0077-0006XX-89 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:59:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05399 for ; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E00da-0001VI-12 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 13:33:12 -0400 Received: from [61.36.150.229] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E006r-0003JO-Js for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 12:59:22 -0400 Received: from 39m@localhost by j1lA.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:18:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Amanda Whitaker" Reply-To: "Amanda Whitaker" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Finally, you can afford software by Symantec MS 2003 & Windows XP Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:11:19 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: PattyHaney@ambermanagement.co.uk Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--86UXcxRYt9ZRFGygF" X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 40161b1d86420e0807d771943d981d25 ew26 ----86UXcxRYt9ZRFGygF Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M
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    Database Deletion:
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    Database Deletion:
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    ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C59992.98566180-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 05 04:59:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0y2o-00016a-1n for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 04:59:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27210 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07E420399; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A9320452; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:59:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD0320437 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2134F20399 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 04:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DF289852; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:58:45 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <42F32A51.4040103@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] channel binding Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 11:58:57 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding bounced message to the list: >Subject: channel binding >User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > >In the IETF63 EAP meeting, I think there was a consensus that the new >channel binding scheme described in >draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-00.txt will not be included in the EAP >keying framework draft. But I would like to confirm if it is OK to >describe the scheme to be described in a separate document as an >extension to the keying framework. > >As Hannes mentioned in the meeting, we need an answer for it as soon >as possible because EAP-IKEv2 (I am a co-author of it) has its own >channel binding functionality and I think that if the new channel >binding scheme is accepted as an extension, we can remove the channel >binding functionality from EAP-IKEv2 to make it much simpler and rely >on the new channel binding scheme instead. > >Best regards, >Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 05 05:29:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0yVp-0001Y8-JF for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 05:29:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28716 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE28206FD; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17DD2042D; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:29:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598AE2042D for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769D120399 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Aug 2005 02:28:41 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.95,169,1120460400"; d="scan'208"; a="653129779:sNHT29697744" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j759Scoo001677; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 02:28:39 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB125E@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding Thread-Index: AcWZnM6QItRbpBrnTVaC6v/+pj5nRwAAnqkg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" , Cc: "Yoshihiro Ohba" X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 02:33:18 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]=20 > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:59 AM > To: eap@frascone.com > Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba > Subject: [eap] channel binding >=20 > Forwarding bounced message to the list: >=20 > >Subject: channel binding > >User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > > > >In the IETF63 EAP meeting, I think there was a consensus=20 > that the new=20 > >channel binding scheme described in=20 > >draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-00.txt will not be included in the EAP=20 > >keying framework draft. But I would like to confirm if it is OK to=20 > >describe the scheme to be described in a separate document as an=20 > >extension to the keying framework. > > > >As Hannes mentioned in the meeting, we need an answer for it=20 > as soon as=20 > >possible because EAP-IKEv2 (I am a co-author of it) has its=20 > own channel=20 > >binding functionality and I think that if the new channel binding=20 > >scheme is accepted as an extension, we can remove the=20 > channel binding=20 > >functionality from EAP-IKEv2 to make it much simpler and rely on the=20 > >new channel binding scheme instead. > > [Joe] I don't think it would be a good idea to remove "channel bindings" from EAP-IKEv2 itself. Performing this functionality in the method is different than doing it in the key derivation. For example there are uses of EAP where EAP derived keys are not used and therefore any sort of binding in the key derivation would be useless. > >Best regards, > >Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Tpxplzuu@altern.org Fri Aug 05 05:51:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0yrg-0007VY-Ii; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 05:51:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29667; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200508050951.FAA29667@ietf.org> Received: from [61.49.223.46] (helo=lh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E0zOi-0001lG-46; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 06:25:55 -0400 From: "Brady Osborne" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: We have it all. Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 04:47:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_XSRSQVNE.HLXOLZDX" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XSRSQVNE.HLXOLZDX Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for visiting. No thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XSRSQVNE.HLXOLZDX Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Thank you for visiting.













    No thanks     ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XSRSQVNE.HLXOLZDX-- From CamilleMcbridedarn@aneptek.com Fri Aug 05 20:38:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1Chk-0000Wx-Bd; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:38:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA12669; Fri, 5 Aug 2005 20:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E1DEs-0007pu-00; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:12:42 -0400 Received: from s010600e01895455a.vc.shawcable.net ([24.82.227.139]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E1Chb-0005DK-0j; Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:38:15 -0400 Received: from goldwater.axlaser.com (HELO netherso.axlaser.com) by inspector.mail with SMTP; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 04:37:00 +0300 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 00:34:00 -0100 From: "Eduardo Amos" To: mmusic@ietf.org Cc: rddp-request@ietf.org, ips-admin@ietf.org, asrg-admin@ietf.org, mailman@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org, simple@ietf.org, spirits-archive@ietf.org, ietf-web@ietf.org, smime-archive@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, ipcdn-admin@ietf.org, nsis@ietf.org Subject: Results of your Loan Request X-Originating-Email: [Sergio.Calderondavon@axlaser.com] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
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    Database Deletion:
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    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.pk8refi.net/book.php From npgskoirl@hotmail.com Sat Aug 06 03:28:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1J6z-0000EJ-W5; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 03:28:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA10439; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 03:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [222.90.32.102] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E1Je9-0007d7-Is; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 04:03:15 -0400 Received: from by ..sitadelle.com with id 1A912K-0759Jb-00 for ; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:25:30 +0200 Message-ID: <80031002160264.GI32483@.tech.sitadelle.com> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 11:26:30 +0300 From: "Hugh Montano" To: disman-request@ietf.org Cc: eap-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, entmib-admin@ietf.org, entmib-request@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org, enum-admin@ietf.org, enum-archive@ietf.org Subject: Only Cailis Help Qh7Ji X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://dumfounds.net/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dumfounds.net/rm.php?ronn Lx From iqwieekjg@talbotfashions.com Sat Aug 06 06:47:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1MCi-0001h3-D8; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 06:47:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16896; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 06:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [218.6.205.6] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E1Mjt-0003Pm-5r; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 07:21:20 -0400 Received: from anumail5.anu.edu.au ([142.203.9.78] helo=anu.edu.au) by smtp3.sepck.nl with esmtp (divisive 3.35 #1 (algaecide)) id 6A4nEM-0005Er-00 Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 17:41:33 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Luke Diggs" To: mailserv@ietf.org Subject: Summer drugs sale Emery X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Summer sale on V i agra and other drugs. You won`t find better prices anywhere! S oma - 180 PiIls - 209.95$ V iagra - 90 PilIs - 339.95$ C ialis - 90 PiIls - 439.95$ U ltram - 120 PilIs - 155$ P hentermine - 90 PiIls - 261$ and many more... Please click below and check out our offer. http://clot.paln.org/pha/heh/ avocet affirm anorthic egotism utility marketeer cat card paraffin dying swallow afghan foolish inlay amorphous guidance lair construct himalaya bicker tao alexis madhouse guerdon depressible keddah matisse systemic econometric gambol image pillage lyons quilt claudia regime barrier winy edict bernice nnw jacob lauren ezekiel space explore timber tan borroughs tower expatiate assort stearns fetter From Wilbert247055Baca@anaweb-marketing.com Sat Aug 06 12:43:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1Rlt-00082v-8H; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:43:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00880; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 12:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E1SJ8-0002zp-99; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 13:18:07 -0400 Received: from [218.79.183.68] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E1Rlg-0001H5-2g; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:43:29 -0400 X-Apparently-To: Elliot37224Gardner@arlenedorin.com via ballyk.arlenedorin.com; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 11:37:09 -0600 Received: from mail pickup service by annotate.us with Microsoft SMTPBOB; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 11:38:09 -0600 Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 20:41:09 +0300 Message-Id: <62390779deloria.1Elliot37224Gardner@arlenedorin.com> From: "Jerald Holt" To: l2tpext-admin@ietf.org Cc: iptel-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, ipoverib-admin@ietf.org, dccp-request@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, vrrp@ietf.org, dinaras@ietf.org, urn-nid-admin@ietf.org Subject: New Prime Lenders Account 946101 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
    I would like to inform you know that you have been pre-approved.

    Here are the results:

    *Account ID: [822-870]
    *Negotiable Amount: $101,182 to $600,063
    *Rate: 4.95% - 5.48%

    Please fill out this quick form and we will have a broker contact you as soon as possible.
    http://www.jsrefi.net/?id=j22

    Regards,

    Jerald Holt
    Senior Account Manager
    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.jsrefi.net/book.php From lnwdlu@assetrecoverycorp.com Sun Aug 07 01:37:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1dqQ-0004ln-Jg; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:37:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03004; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E1eNS-0001om-2j; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 02:11:22 -0400 Received: from 142126.fln.virtua.com.br ([200.247.142.126]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E1dpu-0005PG-Cq; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:36:40 -0400 Received: from kaunas.artelibre.net (HELO fahrenth.artelibre.net [Willard.com]) by meubus.opulent.Willard.cl (Mostfix) with XSMTP id 8J11D72E05 for ; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:30:22 +0300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:31:22 -0600 From: "Efren Salinas" To: l2tpext-admin@ietf.org Cc: iptel-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, ipoverib-admin@ietf.org, dccp-request@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, vrrp@ietf.org, dinaras@ietf.org, urn-nid-admin@ietf.org, ieprep@ietf.org, magma-admin@ietf.org Subject: Your Prime Lenders Account Has Been Created Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
    I would like to inform you know that you have been pre-approved.

    Here are the results:

    *Account ID: [373-513]
    *Negotiable Amount: $157,383 to $624,297
    *Rate: 4.31% - 5.02%

    Please fill out this quick form and we will have a broker contact you as soon as possible.
    http://www.jsrefi.net/?id=j22

    Regards,

    Efren Salinas
    Senior Account Manager
    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.jsrefi.net/book.php From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Aug 07 16:39:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1rvK-0007QU-QE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:39:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26729 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5380B205E0; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2CD204B4; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:39:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36E8204B4 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swip.net (mailfe01.tele2.fr [212.247.154.12]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9010920389 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-T2-Posting-ID: TlrHmwDFCX01iQZd0Fm6v3T8FBlCqve5GwI1mWaefYU= Received: from [80.170.27.78] (HELO DELL.tele2.fr) by mailfe01.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with ESMTP id 43457061 for eap@frascone.com; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:38:06 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20050807223109.035ac960@infres.enst.fr> X-Sender: eu968071@pop.tele2.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: eap@frascone.com From: Pascal Urien Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] EAP-AKA Test Vectors Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:38:06 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Everybody An error has been detected in the EAP-AKA test vectors, (in http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-08.txt ) the 2 res bytes of the EAP header are missing. Here are the corrected values. is there some interested to check this vectors Best Regards Pascal // Identity request Tx: A0 80 00 00 05 01 A4 00 05 01 // Identity.response: anonymous@dot.com Rx: 02 A4 00 16 01 61 6E 6F 6E 79 6D 6F 75 73 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 90 00 // EAP-AKA GET AT_PERMANENT_ID_REQ: aka@dot.com Tx: A0 80 00 00 0A 01A6 000A 1705 0A01 0000 Rx: 02 A6 00 16 17 05 0E 04 00 0B 61 6B 61 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 00 90 00 //================= // Milenage Values= //================= // These values are imported from // 3GPP TS 35.207 V5.0.0 (2002-06), // sections 4.3-Test set 1 and 6.3-Test set 1 // K: 465b5ce8 b199b49f aa5f0a2e e238a6bc // OP: cdc202d5 123e20f6 2b6d676a c72cb318 // SQN: ff9bb4d0b607 // AMF: b9b9 // RAND:23553cbe 9637a89d 218ae64d ae47bf35 // f1|f1*: 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 01 CF AF 9E C4 E8 71 E9 // f2/sres A5 42 11 D5 E3 BA 50 BF // f3/ck B4 0B A9 A3 C5 8B 2A 05 BB F0 D9 87 B2 1B F8 CB // f4/ik F7 69 BC D7 51 04 46 04 12 76 72 71 1C 6D 34 41 // f5/ak AA 68 9C 64 83 70 // f5*/ak2 45 1E 8B EC A4 3B //============================= // Values for XKEY & PRF(XKEY)= //============================= // ID: 61 6B 61 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D = aka@dot.com // IK: F7 69 BC D7 51 04 46 04 12 76 72 71 1C 6D 34 41 // CK: B4 0B A9 A3 C5 8B 2A 05 BB F0 D9 87 B2 1B F8 CB // XKEY = sha1(ID|IK|CK) = // C4 83 4F 21 BE AD F0 9E 7A 3B E8 17 97 5A BA 99 DD B4 0C 9A // PRF(XKEY) // K_Encr: 28 FF 32 38 42 05 6B 55 4B 85 A5 11 16 34 5A A4 // K_Auth: B3 08 06 82 48 8E 68 6F AC 3E 1C F8 24 8E 73 63 // MSK: BE 12 98 C0 B5 33 8C 91 D6 E1 1B 33 AE 7D 46 2D // E2 99 64 64 0C F5 05 FF 26 AE D5 98 82 2D 41 F9 // 20 AF 49 FD CB 77 00 8C 2A AC DB A3 A1 AE 79 75 // 20 8C 25 E5 40 17 5D 22 D5 48 0C DE 88 D7 90 33 // EMSK: CD 10 C9 14 BB 54 DC 97 AE E8 96 06 67 F8 C8 59 // 12 44 DF E7 BD 4A C1 B1 6E 63 1B 4D FA 5D F6 97 // 4A 4C 51 F5 D8 19 FE 68 E7 37 0F 9E 47 43 9B 43 // FD 6E 83 CC 35 7A 01 E7 16 57 F3 BE 6D 26 4A 2B //========================================= // Test #1 : FULL AUTHENTICATION, GOOD #SEQ //========================================= //AT_RAND AT_AUTN AT_MAC Tx: A0 80 00 00 44 01 A5 00 44 17 01 00 00 01 05 00 00 23 55 3C BE 96 37 A8 9D 21 8A E6 4D AE 47 BF 35 02 05 00 00 55 F3 28 B4 35 77 B9 B9 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 0B 05 00 00 C7 00 35 36 66 2D 52 01 B0 11 F2 0F E5 DD 8C E4 // AT_RES AT_MAC Rx: 02 A5 00 28 17 01 00 00 03 03 00 40 A5 42 11 D5 E3 BA 50 BF 0B 05 00 00 45 70 3D 12 95 67 DC A9 2C 91 01 C4 93 92 F2 67 90 00 // Get MSK Tx: A0 A6 00 00 40 Rx: 20 AF 49 FD CB 77 00 8C 2A AC DB A3 A1 AE 79 75 20 8C 25 E5 40 17 5D 22 D5 48 0C DE 88 D7 90 33 BE 12 98 C0 B5 33 8C 91 D6 E1 1B 33 AE 7D 46 2D E2 99 64 64 0C F5 05 FF 26 AE D5 98 82 2D 41 F9 90 00 //========================================== // Test #2 : FULL AUTHENTICATION, WRONG #SEQ //========================================== Tx: A0 80 00 00 44 01 A5 00 44 17 01 00 00 01 05 00 00 23 55 3C BE 96 37 A8 9D 21 8A E6 4D AE 47 BF 35 02 05 00 00 55 F3 28 B4 35 77 B9 B9 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 0B 05 00 00 C7 00 35 36 66 2D 52 01 B0 11 F2 0F E5 DD 8C E4 // AT_AUTS = AK2+SEQ | MAC-S // AK2 = 45 1E 8B EC A4 3B // SEQ = ff 9b b4 d0 b6 08 // MAC-S= 01 CF AF 9E C4 E8 71 E9 Rx: 02 A5 00 18 17 04 00 00 04 04 BA 85 3F 3C 12 33 01 CF AF 9E C4 E8 71 E9 90 00 //========================================== // Test #3 : FULL AUTHENTICATION, WRONG MAC= //========================================== Tx: A0 80 00 00 44 01 A5 00 44 17 01 00 00 01 05 00 00 23 55 3C BE 96 37 A8 9D 21 8A E6 4D AE 47 BF 36 02 05 00 00 55 F3 28 B4 35 77 B9 B9 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 0B 05 00 00 C7 00 35 36 66 2D 52 01 B0 11 F2 0F E5 DD 8C E4 // AKA-Authentication-Reject Rx: 02 A5 00 08 17 02 00 00 90 00 //============================= // Test #4 : Identity Browsing= //============================= // AT_ANY_ID_REQ Tx: A0 80 00 00 0C 01 A6 00 0C 17 05 00 00 0D 01 00 00 Rx: 02 A6 00 18 17 05 00 00 0E 04 00 0B 61 6B 61 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 00 90 00 // AT_FULLAUTH_ID_REQ Tx: A0 80 00 00 0C 01 A6 00 0C 17 05 00 00 11 01 00 00 Rx: 02 A6 00 18 17 05 00 00 0E 04 00 0B 61 6B 61 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 00 90 00 // AT_PERMANENT_ID_REQ Tx: A0 80 00 00 0C 01 A6 00 0C 17 05 00 00 0A 01 00 00 Rx: 02 A6 00 18 17 05 00 00 0E 04 00 0B 61 6B 61 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 00 90 00 //=========================================== // Test #5 : Full Authentication + PSEUDO_ID= //=========================================== // AT_RAND AT_AUTN AT_ENCR AT_MAC // AT_ENCR: 82090000 8205000D 31323334 31323334 31323334 31000000 06030000 00000000 00000000 Tx: A0 80 00 00 7C 01 A5 00 7C 17 01 00 00 01 05 00 00 23 55 3C BE 96 37 A8 9D 21 8A E6 4D AE 47 BF 35 02 05 00 00 55 F3 28 B4 35 77 B9 B9 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 81 05 00 00 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 82 09 00 00 81 9D CA F9 E8 51 07 2D 66 0A 36 FB 79 D9 6C 09 6A C3 6F 2E 58 D6 E3 2D 3F C8 48 69 9D A0 76 D4 0B 05 00 00 B0 5E 0F FC 0A 99 A4 34 2A 2B FA D8 19 00 F1 B3 // AT_RES AT_MAC Rx: 02 A5 00 28 17 01 00 00 03 03 00 40 A5 42 11 D5 E3 BA 50 BF 0B 05 00 00 45 70 3D 12 95 67 DC A9 2C 91 01 C4 93 92 F2 67 90 00 // AT_FULLAUTH_ID_REQ = 12341234123412341@dot.com Tx: A0 80 00 00 0C 01 A6 00 0C 17 05 00 00 11 01 00 00 Rx: 02 A6 00 24 17 05 00 00 0E 07 00 15 31 32 33 34 31 32 33 34 31 32 33 34 31 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 00 00 00 90 00 // AT_PERMANENT_ID_REQ = aka@dot.com Tx: A0 80 00 00 0C 01 A6 00 0C 17 05 00 00 0A 01 00 00 Rx: 02 A6 00 18 17 05 00 00 0E 04 00 0B 61 6B 61 40 64 6F 74 2E 63 6F 6D 00 90 00 //=========================================== // Test #6 : Full Authentication + ReAUTH_ID= //=========================================== // AT_RAND AT_AUTN AT_ENCR AT_MAC // AT_ENCR: 82090000 8505000D 31323334 31323334 31323334 31000000 06030000 00000000 00000000 Tx: A0 80 00 00 7C 01 A5 00 7A 17 01 00 00 01 05 00 00 23 55 3C BE 96 37 A8 9D 21 8A E6 4D AE 47 BF 35 02 05 00 00 55 F3 28 B4 35 77 B9 B9 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 81 05 00 00 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 82 09 00 00 49 E8 E4 BE 42 45 26 11 89 AF E3 A1 E9 13 95 3F 4A 96 6D BE 53 D6 21 A8 CC 77 10 72 DA 7B 19 64 0B 05 00 00 37 7E 88 D4 EC 61 74 5D A4 8B 26 AF 2B 45 FF FB // AT_RES AT_MAC Rx: 02 A5 00 28 17 01 00 00 03 03 00 40 A5 42 11 D5 E3 BA 50 BF 0B 05 00 00 45 70 3D 12 95 67 DC A9 2C 91 01 C4 93 92 F2 67 90 00 // AT_ANY_ID_REQ = 1234123412341 Tx: A0 80 00 00 0C 01 A6 00 0C 17 05 00 00 0D 01 00 00 Rx: 02 A6 00 1C 17 05 00 00 0E 05 00 0D 31 32 33 34 31 32 33 34 31 32 33 34 31 00 00 00 90 00 //============================== // Test #7: ReAUTH, GoodCounter= //============================== // XKEY' = SHA1(Identity|counter|NONCE_S|MK) // Identity = "31323334 31323334 31323334 31" // Counter= "0000" + // NONCE= "12345678 12345678 12345678 12345678" // MK = "BE1298C0B5338C91D6E11B33AE7D462DE29964640CF505FF26AED598822D41F9" // "20AF49FDCB77008C2AACDBA3A1AE7975208C25E540175D22D5480CDE88D79033" // XKEY'= 5f83882b27d5793c01a512f5ed300e6759e64974 // PRF(XKEY') = 7a9d9d7e5ca72ef90b63cc466c4a9d0d6a6a5506a56f978d2adea27db5176c3f // 3abe04e06673ca3e58c85e6fd01f7cef9bd210a143917e90978aaf3eb4539747 // AT_IV AT_ENCR AT_MAC // ENCR: 82090000 13010000 15050000 12345678 12345678 12345678 12345678 85020004 31323334 Tx: A0 80 00 00 54 01 A5 00 54 17 0D 00 00 81 05 00 00 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 82 09 00 00 5A 88 77 6E 7D CB 10 73 7D 3D 3A B7 6A 38 0B 89 95 26 36 16 45 30 79 A4 9F 7D C9 7F 15 59 6B 2C 0B 05 00 00 37 B1 CF E9 B9 A6 F3 04 45 97 AE DC 2F D7 F4 1E // AT_ENCR: 82090000 13010000 15050000 12345678 12345678 12345678 12345678 85020004 31323334 Rx: 02 A5 00 54 17 0D 00 00 81 05 00 00 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 82 09 00 00 FE 69 18 6B AA E2 DE 0E A6 1B 0A A3 18 B2 1F 51 50 60 BA 59 0C 6C A9 84 0E 6D 6A 66 C2 34 0F E6 0B 05 00 00 0B 17 F6 F6 2C 6F 5D 86 4B 00 B5 5D 59 63 00 15 90 00 // Get MSK Tx: A0 A6 00 00 40 Rx: 3A BE 04 E0 66 73 CA 3E 58 C8 5E 6F D0 1F 7C EF 9B D2 10 A1 43 91 7E 90 97 8A AF 3E B4 53 97 47 7A 9D 9D 7E 5C A7 2E F9 0B 63 CC 46 6C 4A 9D 0D 6A 6A 55 06 A5 6F 97 8D 2A DE A2 7D B5 17 6C 3F 90 00 //============================== // Test #8: ReAUTH,WrongCounter= //============================== // AT_IV AT_ENCR AT_MAC Tx: A0 80 00 00 54 01 A5 00 54 17 0D 00 00 81 05 00 00 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 12 34 56 78 82 09 00 00 5A 88 77 6E 7D CB 10 73 7D 3D 3A B7 6A 38 0B 89 95 26 36 16 45 30 79 A4 9F 7D C9 7F 15 59 6B 2C 0B 05 00 00 37 B1 CF E9 B9 A6 F3 04 45 97 AE DC 2F D7 F4 1E // AT_ENCR AT_COUNTER_TOO_SMALL AT_COUNTER AT_PADDING // AT_ENCR: 82050000 14010000 13010000 06020000 00000000 Rx: 02 A5 00 44 17 0D 00 00 81 05 00 00 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 A5 82 05 00 00 76 74 0A 5C AD 91 64 CD EB 1F C3 A5 6A 63 38 E7 0B 05 00 00 87 10 88 6D 97 7A 1A C5 65 2D E5 0D AA 32 EC 15 90 00 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Aug 07 17:46:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1sy9-00013H-3X for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:46:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29092 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6365205D4; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088C920512; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:46:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5DB20512 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A39204B4 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1E1sxt-0006QR-4k for eap@frascone.com; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:45:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j77Ljot13957 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:45:51 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Re: Issue 294: Keying Protocol Requirements Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Here are some thoughts on Jesse's requirements submission. My comments are noted with [BA]. IEEE 802.11i amendment makes a number of assumptions about this sequence of messages. These assumptions are 1. The EAP method performs mutual authentication. Unilateral and bilateral authentication enables man-in-the-middle attacks against the Peer, the EAP Server, or both. [AUTHREQ] makes this assumption explicit. 2. The NAS has a mechanism to guarantee that the AAA-Key is fresh. Notice that the key freshness assumption is different from a message replay protection. Message replay protection is necessary for key freshness, but it is still feasible to deliver an already-used key in a replay-protected message, so replay protection is necessary but not sufficient. Lack of a freshness mechanism enables an attacker to deliver a legitimate but already compromised MSK to the NAS. The EAP session id can be used for this function. 3. The channel between the EAP server and the NAS is protected end-to-end from message forgeries. If this protection is unavailable, then an attacker can create an AAA-Key and masquerade as the Peer to the NAS. 4. The AAA-Key is protected from exposure to any party that might monitor the channel between the EAP Server and the NAS. If this assumption is violated, then the attacker can masquerade as the NAS to the Peer. 5. The EAP Server may not reuse the same AAA-Key with a different NAS. If it did, then compromise of one NAS would compromise the Peers data at every NAS that used the same MSK. [Housley] also includes this requirement. 6. The EAP peer has a mechanism for determining the authenticator identity, and the authenticator has a mechanism for determining the peer identity. Where the identities of one or more of the parties are unknown, the AAA-Key scope is undefined. ------------------------------------------------------------------ [BA] I like the way these assumptions are linked to specific threats, so that the reasoning behind them is clear. In particular the "key freshness" requirement is not adequately captured in the document as it stands. Note that using the EAP Session-ID to determine the freshness of exported EAP keying material seems to assume caching of EAP Session-IDs. I think that requirement 5 ("Domino Effect") could probably be expanded upon to encompass both NAS and EAP Server behavior. Note that it is not clear from the above whether assumption 6 is about security, or just performance. ------------------------------------------------------------------ The logical message flow illustrates that the Peer and the EAP Server do not explicitly agree with the NAS that the NAS will use a particular AAA-Key. The NAS is never told explicitly by the EAP Server which Peer corresponds to the AAA-Key. The EAP Server does not bind the AAA-Key to the authenticated identities of the Peer and the NAS. An acceptable EAP method must provide this service. ------------------------------------------------------------------- [BA] The NAS does obtain either a User-Name or CUI attribute corresponding to the AAA-Key. And of course the NAS does also obtain the lower layer peer identity within the Calling-Station-ID attribute. The AAA server implicitly limits the scope of the AAA-Key to the NAS identity provided in the NAS-Identifier attribute. So the problem here is that all parties do not have the same information; the peer may not learn the NAS-Identifier, and unless explicitly defined within the lower layer, may not know whether the AAA-Key is bound to use on a particular interface. Also, key restrictions are not communicated to all parties. -------------------------------------------------------------------- A second problem is that the Peer never learns the expiration time for the AAA-Key. Since the Peer cannot anticipate when the AAA-Key will expire, it must either re-authenticate too frequently or risk a service disruption when the AAA-Key expires. In the latter case, the Peer learns of the expiration implicitly, as it sends datagrams protected by the AAA-Key, but receives no data traffic in return. --------------------------------------------------------------------- [BA] Key lifetime issues are discussed in the document. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The heuristics most relevant here are o Use explicit communication. Every message should convey all the information it needs to explicitly specify what it means. o Fully specify the semantics. All of the conditions for a message to be acted upon should be spelled out. o Name entities. If the identity of a Principal is essential to the meaning of the message, include the name explicitly. o Make trust assumptions explicit. The protocol designer (and implementer and deployer!) should know which assumptions and dependencies are necessary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [BA] These are sound principles that may be worth citing in the document. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3.2 Mandatory Requirements A keying protocol must cryptographically bind the EAP Peers authenticated identity, the NASs authenticated identity, the AAA-Key expiration condition, and the AAA-Key name in a message from the EAP Server to the EAP Peer. [BA] This seems to make Channel Bindings a MUST. Seems too strong. A mechanism must be specified by which the EAP Peers authenticated identity, the NASs authencated identity, the AAA-Key, AAA-Key expiry condition, and the AAA-Key name is cryptographically bound in a keying protocol message from the EAP server to the NAS. [BA] This is a condition for the Secure Association Protocol. Should we add this to Section 4? A keying protocol instance must be bound to the particular instance of the EAP method that derived the AAA-Key. A keying protocol must include a session identifier that allows the EAP Peer to distinguish one instance of the keying protocol from every other instance. A mechanism must be specified to include a session identifier that allows the NAS to distinguish one instance of the keying protocol from every other instance. [BA] These requirements are handled by the EAP Session-Id. The keying protocol must protect the EAP Peer from forgeries of keying protocol messages. [BA] This is required by [Housley]. A mechanism must be specified to protect the NAS from forgeries of keying protocol messages. A keying protocol must not expose the AAA-Key when it is transferred between the AAA Server and the NAS. [BA] Also required by [Housley]. An EAP method must produce an authenticated Peer name [BA] Must seems too strong for an optional feature. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 08 12:03:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2A5l-0005yB-O6 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:03:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29587 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D085C1FDE9; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF93C1FC5F; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:03:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D18361FC5F for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f15.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.15]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0DA1FC1E for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:02:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.43.122.196 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:02:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.43.122.196] X-Originating-Email: [yohba727@hotmail.com] X-Sender: yohba727@hotmail.com From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: jsalowey@cisco.com Cc: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2005 16:02:48.0079 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F0F11F0:01C59C32] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] channel binding Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:02:47 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Joe, On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 02:33:18AM -0700, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] > > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:59 AM > > To: eap@frascone.com > > Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba > > Subject: [eap] channel binding > > > > Forwarding bounced message to the list: > > > > >Subject: channel binding > > >User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > > > > > >In the IETF63 EAP meeting, I think there was a consensus > > that the new > > >channel binding scheme described in > > >draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-00.txt will not be included in the EAP > > >keying framework draft. But I would like to confirm if it is OK to > > >describe the scheme to be described in a separate document as an > > >extension to the keying framework. > > > > > >As Hannes mentioned in the meeting, we need an answer for it > > as soon as > > >possible because EAP-IKEv2 (I am a co-author of it) has its > > own channel > > >binding functionality and I think that if the new channel binding > > >scheme is accepted as an extension, we can remove the > > channel binding > > >functionality from EAP-IKEv2 to make it much simpler and rely on the > > >new channel binding scheme instead. > > > > > [Joe] I don't think it would be a good idea to remove "channel bindings" > from EAP-IKEv2 itself. Performing this functionality in the method is > different than doing it in the key derivation. For example there are > uses of EAP where EAP derived keys are not used and therefore any sort > of binding in the key derivation would be useless. I don't understand this, as we are not discussing the case where EAP derived keys are not used. Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 08 12:16:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2AIL-0002ux-0z for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:16:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00426 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4DE1FE0E; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB601FD63; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:16:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6238C1FD63 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257471FC5F for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Aug 2005 09:15:20 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.95,175,1120460400"; d="scan'208"; a="203502681:sNHT28302712" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j78GFGoo024809; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB165D@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWcM09818cw3SV2Reax4JFgb1utawAAHvGg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: channel binding Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:19:40 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > I don't understand this, as we are not discussing the case=20 > where EAP derived keys are not used. [Joe] We are discussing the capabilities of an EAP-method. Although an EAP-method can generate keys there is nothing forcing those keys to be used for anything. Binding data to the authentication exchange and binding data to the key derivation are similar but different approaches. I do not think that one should eliminate binding of data in the authentication in favor of binding data in the key derivation as they solve different problems. I am not familiar with the EAP-IKEv2 use of "channel bindings", but I would rather see the capability fixed if it has a problem than removed.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 08 13:59:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2Bu2-0002Gz-Jl for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:59:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06108 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351371FE16; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277D91FD6C; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:59:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F271FE02 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f13.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.13]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1E41FD6C for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 13:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:58:11 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.43.122.196 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:58:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.43.122.196] X-Originating-Email: [yohba727@hotmail.com] X-Sender: yohba727@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB165D@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: jsalowey@cisco.com Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2005 17:58:11.0172 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD8B3A40:01C59C42] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:58:10 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Joe, Thank you for prompt response. Please see my comment below. >From: "Salowey, Joe" >To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" >CC: >Subject: [eap] RE: channel binding >Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:19:40 -0700 > > > > > I don't understand this, as we are not discussing the case > > where EAP derived keys are not used. > >[Joe] We are discussing the capabilities of an EAP-method. Although an >EAP-method can generate keys there is nothing forcing those keys to be >used for anything. Binding data to the authentication exchange and >binding data to the key derivation are similar but different approaches. Although I agree that binding data to the authentication exchange and binding data to the key derivation are different approaches, I don't agree with using keys generated by an EAP method for arbitrary purpose, especially AAA-Key. I think there is a key-scoping issue if we do not specify the usage of the keys generated by an EAP method. At least AAA-Key should be restricted to be used by a specific pair of EAP peer and authenticator. Also, this is also related to EAP applicability statement which currently allows the use of EAP for network access authentication, not for authentication for arbitrary application. Besides this I have two issues on the use of EAP-method based chanel binding scheme. One issue is as described in section 2 of draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding. The other issue is complexity being added to each EAP method by having direct communication between each EAP method and lower layer, which is not described in the EAP state machine I-D. The latter issue issue keeps me away from implementing EAP-method based chanel binding scheme in Open Diameter EAP libraries. Regards, Yoshihiro Ohba >I do not think that one should eliminate binding of data in the >authentication in favor of binding data in the key derivation as they >solve different problems. I am not familiar with the EAP-IKEv2 use of >"channel bindings", but I would rather see the capability fixed if it >has a problem than removed. >_______________________________________________ >eap mailing list >eap@frascone.com >http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 08 14:09:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2C3i-0006E7-BJ for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:09:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA06976 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F63E1FE17; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71F91FE02; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:09:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4182A1FE02 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E671FD6C for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Aug 2005 11:08:09 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,89,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="653563160:sNHT29572244" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j78I86oo000931; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1745@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWcQ5TrOaOeH+ctTVek6fARgNh9GQAAIMCw From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:12:48 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >[Joe] We are discussing the capabilities of an EAP-method. =20 > Although an=20 > >EAP-method can generate keys there is nothing forcing those=20 > keys to be=20 > >used for anything. Binding data to the authentication exchange and=20 > >binding data to the key derivation are similar but different=20 > approaches. >=20 > Although I agree that binding data to the authentication=20 > exchange and binding data to the key derivation are different=20 > approaches, I don't agree with using keys generated by an EAP=20 > method for arbitrary purpose, especially AAA-Key. I think=20 > there is a key-scoping issue if we do not specify the usage=20 > of the keys generated by an EAP method. At least AAA-Key=20 > should be restricted to be used by a specific pair of EAP=20 > peer and authenticator. Also, this is also related to EAP=20 > applicability statement which currently allows the use of EAP=20 > for network access authentication, not for authentication for=20 > arbitrary application. > [Joe] I'm not sure what you are talking about as this has nothing to do with what I mentioned above. I suggest that we do not try to confuse the issue. > Besides this I have two issues on the use of EAP-method based=20 > chanel binding scheme. > One issue is as described in section 2 of=20 > draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding.=20 > The other issue > is complexity being added to each EAP method by having direct=20 > communication between each EAP method and lower layer, which=20 > is not described in the EAP state machine I-D. The latter=20 > issue issue keeps me away from implementing EAP-method based=20 > chanel binding scheme in Open Diameter EAP libraries. >=20 [Joe] Neither mechanism is ideal, as the both require changes to the system. I am not arguing against binding information in the key derivation. I am saying that performing this function in the mechanism is different that performing it in the key derivation and that I believe it is advantageous to have this functionality in the mechanism. =20 > Regards, > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 >=20 > >I do not think that one should eliminate binding of data in the=20 > >authentication in favor of binding data in the key=20 > derivation as they=20 > >solve different problems. I am not familiar with the=20 > EAP-IKEv2 use of=20 > >"channel bindings", but I would rather see the capability=20 > fixed if it=20 > >has a problem than removed. > >_______________________________________________ > >eap mailing list > >eap@frascone.com > >http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 08 19:38:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2HC8-0002Ga-HZ for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:38:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA02084 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053122034B; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940892023B; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:38:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 336962023B for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f10.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.10]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C73201F6 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 16:37:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.43.122.197 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 23:37:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.43.122.197] X-Originating-Email: [yohba727@hotmail.com] X-Sender: yohba727@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1745@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: jsalowey@cisco.com Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2005 23:37:20.0187 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E8080B0:01C59C72] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 23:37:19 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Joe, >From: "Salowey, Joe" >To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" >CC: >Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding >Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:12:48 -0700 > > > > > > > >[Joe] We are discussing the capabilities of an EAP-method. > > Although an > > >EAP-method can generate keys there is nothing forcing those > > keys to be > > >used for anything. Binding data to the authentication exchange and > > >binding data to the key derivation are similar but different > > approaches. > > > > Although I agree that binding data to the authentication > > exchange and binding data to the key derivation are different > > approaches, I don't agree with using keys generated by an EAP > > method for arbitrary purpose, especially AAA-Key. I think > > there is a key-scoping issue if we do not specify the usage > > of the keys generated by an EAP method. At least AAA-Key > > should be restricted to be used by a specific pair of EAP > > peer and authenticator. Also, this is also related to EAP > > applicability statement which currently allows the use of EAP > > for network access authentication, not for authentication for > > arbitrary application. > > > >[Joe] I'm not sure what you are talking about as this has nothing to do >with what I mentioned above. I suggest that we do not try to confuse >the issue. Maybe I have over-reacted to the part "nothing forcing those keys to be used for anything". > > > Besides this I have two issues on the use of EAP-method based > > chanel binding scheme. > > One issue is as described in section 2 of > > draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding. > > The other issue > > is complexity being added to each EAP method by having direct > > communication between each EAP method and lower layer, which > > is not described in the EAP state machine I-D. The latter > > issue issue keeps me away from implementing EAP-method based > > chanel binding scheme in Open Diameter EAP libraries. > > >[Joe] Neither mechanism is ideal, as the both require changes to the >system. I am not arguing against binding information in the key >derivation. I am saying that performing this function in the mechanism >is different that performing it in the key derivation and that I believe >it is advantageous to have this functionality in the mechanism. I think this is where we have different opinions. I don't think using EAP methods to carry channel parameters a good idea (even in the form a blob), while you think it is advantageous... Yoshihiro Ohba > > > Regards, > > Yoshihiro Ohba > > > > > > >I do not think that one should eliminate binding of data in the > > >authentication in favor of binding data in the key > > derivation as they > > >solve different problems. I am not familiar with the > > EAP-IKEv2 use of > > >"channel bindings", but I would rather see the capability > > fixed if it > > >has a problem than removed. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >eap mailing list > > >eap@frascone.com > > >http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 08 19:46:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2HJp-0004yk-9o for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:46:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA02319 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F22FF20373; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4BF202A6; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:46:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2450D202A6 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0191D2026F for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Aug 2005 16:45:13 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j78NjBQM028625; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 16:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1929@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWcctflv1bBM8NiRSy/CUc4KRFhYgAABiag From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 16:49:53 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > I think this is where we have different opinions. I don't=20 > think using EAP methods to carry channel parameters a good=20 > idea (even in the form a blob), while you think it is advantageous... > [Joe] Yes, I believe that being able to bind information (channel parameters or otherwise) to the authentication exchange within an EAP method is a good thing.=20 =20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Aug 09 02:04:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2NDh-0005G8-FM for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:04:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04376 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23332038E; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABBD01FE34; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:04:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2DF1FE34 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B8D1FC21 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 02:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from centralmail2brm.Central.Sun.COM (centralmail2brm.central.sun.com [129.147.62.14]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j7962wvU010334 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:02:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by centralmail2brm.Central.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id j7962vLG011358 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7962ora019211; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 01:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id j7962nCf019210; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 01:02:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicolas Williams To: Yoshihiro Ohba Cc: jsalowey@cisco.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <20050809060248.GQ18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1745@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 01:02:49 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 11:37:19PM +0000, Yoshihiro Ohba wrote: > >From: "Salowey, Joe" > >Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:12:48 -0700 > > > >[Joe] Neither mechanism is ideal, as the both require changes to the > >system. I am not arguing against binding information in the key > >derivation. I am saying that performing this function in the mechanism > >is different that performing it in the key derivation and that I believe > >it is advantageous to have this functionality in the mechanism. > > I think this is where we have different opinions. I don't think using EAP > methods to > carry channel parameters a good idea (even in the form a blob), while you > think it is > advantageous... Except that channel bindings are part of EAP. That you think they're not a good idea does not make the feature go away :) Are you proposing that the feature be removed? Or simply that some mechanism or other not provide it? The former would require, er, much process and would likely not succeed; the latter may be a matter of course for some types of mechanisms, but for those that provide full keying functionality I see no reason not to also provide channel binding (though you might argue that features such as channel binding and cryptographic binding could be provided by pseudo-mechanisms stacked atop any mechanism that provides for key derivation, and I'd agree, but I'd rather see such features provided natively as well). Nico -- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From piympr@21cn.com Tue Aug 09 03:25:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2OUG-0002Kr-O1 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:25:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA17107 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 03:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2P28-0005Kc-Ds for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 04:00:24 -0400 Received: from [221.15.233.162] (helo=221.15.233.162) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E2OQc-0000gO-Fb for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:21:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:21:37 +0800 From: "rlix" To: "Reader" Subject: =?gb2312?B?u/q74dTa09rE+tPF0OO1xNHbueK6zbbUz+7Ev7XEs+S31sHLveKjoQ==?= X-Mailer: Foxmail 5.0 beta2 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 safHuLTyyMXBy6OhztLT0NK7uPa6w8/uxL++rbn9tuC3vcLb1qTHsL6wsru07aOstauyu9aqyOe6 zsja18qjrNa7usPTw9Xi1ta3vbeoytTK1KOsz6PN+9XStb3Wvs2stcC6z7XEus/X97vvsOmho8jn ufvE+tPQ0ru2qLXE18q98M/r1dK49rrDz+7Ev6Osx+vT687SwarPtaOhztK21LrP1/fV37XE0qrH 8w0KMaO6yMvGt9Kq1f0NCjKjurHY0Ou+37G4y/nQ6NfKvfA0MDDN8qG+z8jG2jEwMM3yvs25u8HL ob8NCjOjutXm1f3P67jJysLStbXEDQrO0rXEs9DFtQ0KMTq1scTqytW72M2218qyorz7wPvI8w0K MjrI/cTqxNrA+8jzs6zS2tSqDQozo7rO5cTqxNqzyc6q1+6087XE0NDStdDFz6K7+rm5DQqyu77f sbjM9bz+1d+yu9PDu9i4tMHLo6zPo837w7vT0LTyyMXE+qGj0LvQu6OhDQogICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgy+/PyMn6IDEzMDczNzgwNzU1DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICDTys/ko7pzendjZzU1NUB5YWhvby5jb20uY24= From AvalosLalla3456@kayescholer.com Tue Aug 09 04:37:39 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2PcB-000452-Hn for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 04:37:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22251 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 04:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200508090837.EAA22251@ietf.org> Received: from ppp-217-133-65-161.cust-adsl.tiscali.it ([217.133.65.161] helo=kayescholer.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2QA2-0008DN-0Z for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 05:12:39 -0400 From: "Lalla Avalos" To: "Seonag Perry" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=EDAGRA_CIALL=ECS_V=C1L1UM?= Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 03:37:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01C59CBD.8E4BA000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: electrometer 2.82 X-Unsent: 1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antivirus: avast! 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I am not arguing against binding information in the key > > >derivation. I am saying that performing this function in the mechanism > > >is different that performing it in the key derivation and that I believe > > >it is advantageous to have this functionality in the mechanism. > > > > I think this is where we have different opinions. I don't think using EAP > > methods to > > carry channel parameters a good idea (even in the form a blob), while you > > think it is > > advantageous... > >Except that channel bindings are part of EAP. That you think they're not >a good idea does not make the feature go away :) I believe that the channel binding mechansm described in RFC 3748 (i.e., EAP-method based mechanism) is just a possible solution. RFC 3748 does not mandate the use of the specific channel binding mechanism. RFC 3748 has the EAP-method based channel binding mechanism in the security claims list in section 7.2, but now it turns out that there is another solution (i.e., key-derivation based mechanism). I am trying to suggest having a fresh view of the problem. > Are you proposing that the feature be removed? Or simply that some mechanism or other not >provide it? I am proposing to have the key-derivation based channel binding mechanism as an extension to EAP key management, meaning that some system can use it instead of the EAP-method based mechanism. All EAP methods that do not carry channel parameters (and most EAP methods do not) will benefit from this extension. (And I did not hear objection in the EAP meeting on having the key-derivation based approach as an extension, though there was a clear objection to define the approach in the key management framework I-D.) Then, I thought if such an extension is defined, EAP-IKEv2 can be simplified by removing removing the EAP-method based mechanism from the EAP-IKEv2 specification and rely on the extention instead. It seems that Joe and you would like to see the EAP-method based mechanism defined in the EAP-IKEv2 specification as it currently stands. If you would like to see it in EAP-IKEv2, then we need to consider how we can manage a list of channel parameters (which are mostly lower-layer parameters, I believe) carried in IKEv2 Notify payloads in EAP-IKEv2 by IANA. Is it a reasonable thing to let each SDO working on lower layers to carry EAP to register their parameters to IANA to be carried in EAP-IKEv2 Notify payloads? I think many people do not (yet) serisouly consider this level of details about the channel binding problem. Note that the key-derivation based mechanism addresses this issue by simply having each SDO to define its own content of the key-binding-blob. Yoshihiro Ohba > The former would require, er, much process and would likely >not succeed; the latter may be a matter of course for some types of >mechanisms, but for those that provide full keying functionality I see >no reason not to also provide channel binding (though you might argue >that features such as channel binding and cryptographic binding could be >provided by pseudo-mechanisms stacked atop any mechanism that provides >for key derivation, and I'd agree, but I'd rather see such features >provided natively as well). > >Nico >-- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Sspcjal@optonline.com Wed Aug 10 03:49:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2lLb-0006D7-8w; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:49:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA10234; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200508100749.DAA10234@ietf.org> Received: from [222.89.69.63] (helo=lh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2ltc-0005MP-QE; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 04:25:11 -0400 From: "Dudley Fernandez" To: rohc-admin@ietf.org Subject: For your information Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:45:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_NDEVXWNM.ONXNQGJI" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_NDEVXWNM.ONXNQGJI Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear HomeOwner, After completing the review we are pleased to offer you the following, Your current mortgage qualifies you for more than a 3% lower rate! -------------------------------------------------------- !! 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Act Now! http://www.planningwrap.com Liol From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 10 10:13:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2rKV-0002pu-Eq for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:13:17 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00950 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C0D204B3; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E5B2048C; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:13:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E962048C for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA2820437 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Aug 2005 07:12:50 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,96,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="330801767:sNHT58121276" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7AEChQM029944; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:12:43 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1CF4@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWdVVS/Gy36iVs3SbiAvX/XdQL9uAAXcygw From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:17:31 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Are you proposing that the feature be removed? Or simply that some > mechanism or other not > >provide it? =20 >=20 > I am proposing to have the key-derivation based channel=20 > binding mechanism as an extension to EAP key management,=20 > meaning that some system can use it instead of the EAP-method=20 > based mechanism. All EAP methods that do not carry channel=20 > parameters (and most EAP methods do not) will benefit from=20 > this extension. (And I did not hear objection in the EAP=20 > meeting on having the key-derivation based approach as an=20 > extension, though there was a clear objection to define the=20 > approach in the key management framework I-D.)=20 =20 [Joe] The objections I heard in the EAP meeting to the key binding approach were that it requires changes in many places (Peers, authenticators and servers). This is not a trivial objection. You are correct that channel bindings requires support from EAP methods, however many methods have the capability for this support already, but it does need more definition. =20 > Then, I thought if such an extension is defined, EAP-IKEv2=20 > can be simplified by removing removing the EAP-method based=20 > mechanism from the EAP-IKEv2 specification and rely on the=20 > extention instead. It seems that Joe and you would like to=20 > see the EAP-method based mechanism defined in the EAP-IKEv2=20 > specification as it currently stands. [Joe] No I did not say that, unfortunately I haven't had a chance to read the EAP-IKEv2 draft yet. The way it does channel bindings may not be acceptable and may need to change. What I am in favor of is defining EAP methods so that the information can be bound to the authentication exchange. I believe this is a more general solution to a class of problems than key binding. I think it would be fine to do key binding in addition if a lower layer can make use of it, but it is a lower layer function. =20 > If you would like to see it in EAP-IKEv2, then we need to=20 > consider how we can manage a list of channel parameters=20 > (which are mostly lower-layer parameters, I believe) carried=20 > in IKEv2 Notify payloads in EAP-IKEv2 by IANA. Is it a=20 > reasonable thing to let each SDO working on lower layers to=20 > carry EAP to register their parameters to IANA to be carried=20 > in EAP-IKEv2 Notify payloads? I think many people do not=20 > (yet) serisouly consider this level of details about the=20 > channel binding problem. Note that the key-derivation based=20 > mechanism addresses this issue by simply having each SDO to=20 > define its own content of the key-binding-blob. [Joe] Since key binding and binding within the method are doing the same thing I don't see why the same approach wouldn't be taken with both of them. The difference just happens to be an artifact of your IKEv2 definition. I don't think it is necessary to have IANA assigned values. There are two ways that I think are feasible to implement channel bindings. One is to take external lower layer parameter blob that is input by both sides and have both sides ensure that the bindings are the same (this is the GSS-API approach). The other is to take an optional lower layer blob defined by the lower layer application on both sides and return the lower layer blob to the other party for validation in the lower layer (this is the approach that has been discussed in the EAP group). Neither of these require the EAP method to understand the channel bindings. The GSS-API approach is very similar to your key binding approach. The EAP approach is somewhat more complex, but allows for more variation in how parameters are evaluated. =20 >=20 > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 > > The former would require, er, much process and would likely not=20 > >succeed; the latter may be a matter of course for some types of=20 > >mechanisms, but for those that provide full keying=20 > functionality I see=20 > >no reason not to also provide channel binding (though you=20 > might argue=20 > >that features such as channel binding and cryptographic=20 > binding could=20 > >be provided by pseudo-mechanisms stacked atop any mechanism that=20 > >provides for key derivation, and I'd agree, but I'd rather see such=20 > >features provided natively as well). >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > >Nico > >-- >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From rich@yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 13:00:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2twi-0004Oa-V5 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:00:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11027 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pool-71-107-9-108.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.107.9.108] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2uUq-0004Uf-IS for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:36:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:00:54 +0100 From: "Finkel" To: Subject: All love enhancers on one portal! 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mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F192C204DA for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DE1204AC for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from centralmail2brm.Central.Sun.COM ([129.147.62.14]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j7AJfT1d024821 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by centralmail2brm.Central.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id j7AJfRLG004199 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7AJfRH3020436; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:41:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id j7AJfQGC020435; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:41:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicolas Williams To: Yoshihiro Ohba Cc: jsalowey@cisco.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <20050810194125.GU18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> References: <20050809060248.GQ18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:41:25 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) You are correct about this: given an EAP method that provides keying but not channel (or cryptographic) bindings it should be possible to provide those elsewhere. RFC3748 speaks of "a protected exchange of channel properties," but I don't see how working these properties into key derivation departs from the spirit of the RFC3748 description. I.e., I don't see how what you propose is fundamentally new in regards to EAP channel binding -- what's new in what you propose is to add components that provide features missing from methods. I can't help but be reminded of the stackable pseudo-mechanism notion that we're working on in the GSS-API context at the KITTEN WG. That is, I think it's a good idea -- I would, of course, since I've been promoting idea of GSS stackable and composite mechanisms ;) I don't necessarily agree that all methods should be simplified by not providing optional features that can be provided via composite methods. But thinking of the SECMECH BoF GUAM proposal I do agree that the core of a mechanism could/can/should indeed be specified such that it provides only the fundamental properties needed and the rest of the EAP or GSS semantics can then be provided by inclusion or elsewhere. Nico -- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 10 19:02:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2zaN-00054q-A3 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:02:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09957 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C84D1FE34; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33632028D; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:02:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB59E2028D for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B641FE34 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate3.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate3) with ESMTP id j7ANEsAQ021919 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:14:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exm03.cig.mot.com (il27exm03.cig.mot.com [10.17.193.4]) by az33exr01.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j7ANA1wS009640 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:10:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: by il27exm03.cig.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:01:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 To: eap@frascone.com Cc: henry.haverinen@nokia.com, jari.Arkko@ericsson.com, Shin Min-Ho-A00057 , Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Question on EAP-AKA trust model Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:01:44 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi folks, authors, We are trying to implement the EAP-AKA process with the following topology UMTS AuC/AAA----non-UMTS AAA server----AP/NAS----supplicant (AAA1) (AAA2) Here was what we were originally thinking: The supplicant would respond to the EAP-ID from the NAS with an identity that would help the non-UMTS AAA server (AAA2) to find out where the UMTS AAA server (AAA1) is. The AAA2 would ask the UMTS AuC/ AAA for the authentication vectors for the supplicant and then act as EAP-AKA server and complete the authentication. We are now running into a couple of issues: 1) looking at 3G documentation it seems that the UMTS AuC does not pass the authentication vectors (AVs) to the AAA2, the AuC acts as AAAH and authenticates the supplicant itself, so basically UMTS operator does not trust the non-UMTS network AAA server (say WLAN) with Avs, is this understanding true? Or could we do it as below (in other words was the EAP-AKA intended for use by a visited AAA server). 2) Even if we modify that trust model and have the AAA2 authenticate the supplicant directly with borrowed Avs, what is the process for fetching this Avs, it does not seem to be specified in the draft or anywhere. We looked into RFC 2548 and thought may be we could use an Access Request/ Access accept process to pass the Avs from AAA1 to AAA2, using MS-MPPE-Send-Key, but we are not sure if this is appropriate and not sure what the request would be like, or how to encrypt the keys. So any hints are appreciated. 3) in the second model, if the identity supported by supplicant points to the AAA1, we are not sure how the AAA2 could be configured to not send the authentication request to the AAA1 and perform this locally. And at the same time the AAA2 will probably have to use the identity provided by the supplicant to AAA1 to allow the latter find the authentication credentials as well as direct the AAA2 to perform EAP-AKA. Basically it seems that the EAP/ID response will be forwarded to AAA1, EAP/request with EAP-AKA type will also come from AAA1, but the rest of EAP-AKA is performed by the AAA2. So it seems that the peer-to-peer EAP model will be broken here. Should we abandon the second model due to operator trust issues? Or modify the EAP process? Or ... 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    ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C59E77.55EFC180-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 11 14:57:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3IEz-0002cp-6b for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:57:21 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19562 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9102045C; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2710320441; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:57:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 111E320441 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f27.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.52]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F1520375 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:56:40 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.43.122.196 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:56:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.43.122.196] X-Originating-Email: [yohba727@hotmail.com] X-Sender: yohba727@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1CF4@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: jsalowey@cisco.com, Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2005 18:56:40.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[68BAA7B0:01C59EA6] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:56:40 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Joe, >From: "Salowey, Joe" > > > Then, I thought if such an extension is defined, EAP-IKEv2 > > can be simplified by removing removing the EAP-method based > > mechanism from the EAP-IKEv2 specification and rely on the > > extention instead. It seems that Joe and you would like to > > see the EAP-method based mechanism defined in the EAP-IKEv2 > > specification as it currently stands. > >[Joe] No I did not say that, unfortunately I haven't had a chance to >read the EAP-IKEv2 draft yet. The way it does channel bindings may not >be acceptable and may need to change. What I am in favor of is defining >EAP methods so that the information can be bound to the authentication >exchange. I believe this is a more general solution to a class of >problems than key binding. I think it would be fine to do key binding >in addition if a lower layer can make use of it, but it is a lower layer >function. I'd say that a more general solution should better be defined in an "extensible authentication protocol" (not necessaliry the EAP defined in RFC 3748) itself, not within each authentication method run on top of it. On the other hand, I don't think EAP is a right behicle to define it mostly because EAP itself does not have its own protection mechanism. I don't think it's a good idea to expand each EAP authentication method towords a more general solution, which I believe would make things worse than better in terms of complexity and interoperability. Carrying channel parameters in EAP methods seems to be a gray area. > > > If you would like to see it in EAP-IKEv2, then we need to > > consider how we can manage a list of channel parameters > > (which are mostly lower-layer parameters, I believe) carried > > in IKEv2 Notify payloads in EAP-IKEv2 by IANA. Is it a > > reasonable thing to let each SDO working on lower layers to > > carry EAP to register their parameters to IANA to be carried > > in EAP-IKEv2 Notify payloads? I think many people do not > > (yet) serisouly consider this level of details about the > > channel binding problem. Note that the key-derivation based > > mechanism addresses this issue by simply having each SDO to > > define its own content of the key-binding-blob. > >[Joe] Since key binding and binding within the method are doing the same >thing I don't see why the same approach wouldn't be taken with both of >them. The difference just happens to be an artifact of your IKEv2 >definition. I don't think it is necessary to have IANA assigned values. You are right. We can define a blob in EAP-IKEv2 Notify payload to avoid IANA assigned values, if people want it. >There are two ways that I think are feasible to implement channel >bindings. One is to take external lower layer parameter blob that is >input by both sides and have both sides ensure that the bindings are the >same (this is the GSS-API approach). The other is to take an optional >lower layer blob defined by the lower layer application on both sides >and return the lower layer blob to the other party for validation in the >lower layer (this is the approach that has been discussed in the EAP >group). Neither of these require the EAP method to understand the >channel bindings. The GSS-API approach is very similar to your key >binding approach. The EAP approach is somewhat more complex, but allows >for more variation in how parameters are evaluated. I'd like to see the GSS-API like approach at least as an optional mechanism. Yoshihiro Ohba > > > > > Yoshihiro Ohba > > > > > The former would require, er, much process and would likely not > > >succeed; the latter may be a matter of course for some types of > > >mechanisms, but for those that provide full keying > > functionality I see > > >no reason not to also provide channel binding (though you > > might argue > > >that features such as channel binding and cryptographic > > binding could > > >be provided by pseudo-mechanisms stacked atop any mechanism that > > >provides for key derivation, and I'd agree, but I'd rather see such > > >features provided natively as well). > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Nico > > >-- > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 11 15:06:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3INa-0004FO-0m for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:06:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20085 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCA42045E; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA31B20441; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:06:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F272E20441 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay7-f16.bay7.hotmail.com [64.4.11.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE6E2043F for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:05:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.43.122.196 by by7fd.bay7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:05:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.43.122.196] X-Originating-Email: [yohba727@hotmail.com] X-Sender: yohba727@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20050810194125.GU18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> From: "Yoshihiro Ohba" To: Nicolas.Williams@sun.com Cc: jsalowey@cisco.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2005 19:05:12.0082 (UTC) FILETIME=[996EA720:01C59EA7] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:05:11 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) >From: Nicolas Williams >To: Yoshihiro Ohba >CC: jsalowey@cisco.com, eap@frascone.com >Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding >Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:41:25 -0500 > >You are correct about this: given an EAP method that provides keying but >not channel (or cryptographic) bindings it should be possible to provide >those elsewhere. > >RFC3748 speaks of "a protected exchange of channel properties," but I >don't see how working these properties into key derivation departs from >the spirit of the RFC3748 description. > >I.e., I don't see how what you propose is fundamentally new in regards >to EAP channel binding -- what's new in what you propose is to add >components that provide features missing from methods. I'ts not fundamentally new because the goal is the same, but it's a different approach. > >I can't help but be reminded of the stackable pseudo-mechanism notion >that we're working on in the GSS-API context at the KITTEN WG. That is, >I think it's a good idea -- I would, of course, since I've been >promoting idea of GSS stackable and composite mechanisms ;) > >I don't necessarily agree that all methods should be simplified by not >providing optional features that can be provided via composite methods. > I understand your point. >But thinking of the SECMECH BoF GUAM proposal I do agree that the core >of a mechanism could/can/should indeed be specified such that it >provides only the fundamental properties needed and the rest of the EAP >or GSS semantics can then be provided by inclusion or elsewhere. OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm wrong): - Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but needs some modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA assignment issue.) - Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be specified as an extension to EAP keying framework. Best regards, Yoshihiro Ohba > >Nico >-- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 11 15:41:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3IvM-0003ac-RP for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:41:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23633 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516C82045F; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159C32045C; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:41:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C552045C for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D613A20441 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from centralmail2brm.Central.Sun.COM (centralmail2brm.central.sun.com [129.147.62.14]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j7BJeWx7028933 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (binky.Central.Sun.COM [129.153.128.104]) by centralmail2brm.Central.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id j7BJeVLG009618 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from binky.Central.Sun.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7BJeVh5021368; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:40:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nw141292@localhost) by binky.Central.Sun.COM (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id j7BJeRcg021367; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:40:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Nicolas Williams To: Yoshihiro Ohba Cc: jsalowey@cisco.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <20050811194027.GO18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> References: <20050810194125.GU18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.7i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:40:27 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 07:05:11PM +0000, Yoshihiro Ohba wrote: > >From: Nicolas Williams > >Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:41:25 -0500 > > >But thinking of the SECMECH BoF GUAM proposal I do agree that the core > >of a mechanism could/can/should indeed be specified such that it > >provides only the fundamental properties needed and the rest of the EAP > >or GSS semantics can then be provided by inclusion or elsewhere. > > OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm > wrong): > > - Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but needs > some > modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA assignment issue.) > > - Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be specified as an > extension to > EAP keying framework. I'm a bit of a neutral party in this, so far. You'll want to see what Joe and the rest of the EAP community have to say. Going by what Joe has written already I think that only proposals involving changes to specs that have not been implemented and deployed have a chance of producing consensus. Nico -- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From DebbieNichols@clangrant-us.org Thu Aug 11 17:41:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3Ko5-0002wp-CU for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:41:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28922 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E3LMS-0001EW-V0 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:17:17 -0400 Received: from cpe-24-208-119-178.kc.res.rr.com ([24.208.119.178]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E3Ko1-0001wm-Dz for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:41:42 -0400 Received: from tk2Q@localhost by kcJ.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:06:17 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Maureen Kruse" Reply-To: "Maureen Kruse" To: eap-archive@ietf.org, v4@ietf.org Subject: Acrobat Pro 7.0 $69.95 MS 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:09:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: DebbieNichols@clangrant-us.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--kFH05vBx9H10lTjZe5" X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 Azj6 ----kFH05vBx9H10lTjZe5 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable S
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    =

    <= /form> ----kFH05vBx9H10lTjZe5-- From glkfrtbigul@msn.com Thu Aug 11 23:10:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3Pvy-0006aI-Sk; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:10:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA14927; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [60.163.47.184] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E3QUL-0001zc-78; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:45:47 -0400 Received: from .starnetusa.net (.starnetusa.net [240.91.62.98]) by .starnetusa.net with ESMTP id 2C573160 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:07:03 -0400 Message-Id: <6.9.2.18.2.20031533823053.025b4b48@.starnetusa.net> X-Sender: glkfrtbigul@msn.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:09:03 -0400 From: "Donnie Devine" To: disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Doctors Use This Too SP1Nir X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://modelled.net/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://modelled.net/rm.php?ronn XQVq0 From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 12 09:00:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3Z8y-0001b0-2B for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:00:18 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20448 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE22204CE; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE71D204B2; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:00:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3436C204B2 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext04.nokia.com (mgw-ext04.nokia.com [131.228.20.96]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A84B204B0 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext04.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j7CCxH1e020339; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:59:24 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:59:33 +0300 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:59:33 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <58357EDC7884E24BAD684C1B2D91F96D969616@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Thread-Topic: Question on EAP-AKA trust model Thread-Index: AcWd/5R73eCtzL9GR062XoLyn/goiAASD4Pg From: To: , Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Aug 2005 12:59:33.0194 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF3FC2A0:01C59F3D] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP-AKA trust model Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:59:32 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Madjid, EAP-AKA defines the EAP method between the peer and the EAP server. The system architecture is not in the scope of the EAP-AKA document. In particular, how=20 the vectors are retrieved and the protocols between the=20 EAP server and the AuC are not EAP-AKA issues.=20 In 3GPP, the system architecture is discussed in TS 23.234. The EAP server is included in the 3GPP AAA server, which is a home operator element. The Wx reference point between the AAA server and the HSS is based on Diameter (TS 29.234). Alternatively, a = legacy=20 MAP interface (D') can be used to fetch vectors from a legacy HLR.=20 In both cases, routing to the HSS/HLR is ultimately based on the IMSI. I don't have the 3GPP2 document numbers right now, but to my=20 recollection the status is similar: the EAP server is considered a home=20 operator element. So authentication vectors are not sent to the visited = network. The visited network may still deploy an AAA proxy server, such as the = 3GPP=20 AAA proxy discussed in 3GPP TS 23.234. I hope this helps. Henry > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1=20 > [mailto:Madjid.Nakhjiri@motorola.com] > Sent: 11 August, 2005 02:02 > To: eap@frascone.com > Cc: Haverinen Henry (Nokia-ES/Jyvaskyla);=20 > jari.Arkko@ericsson.com; Shin > Min-Ho-A00057; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 > Subject: Question on EAP-AKA trust model >=20 >=20 > Hi folks, authors, >=20 > We are trying to implement the EAP-AKA process with the=20 > following topology >=20 > UMTS AuC/AAA----non-UMTS AAA server----AP/NAS----supplicant > (AAA1) (AAA2) > Here was what we were originally thinking: > The supplicant would respond to the EAP-ID from the NAS with=20 > an identity that would help the non-UMTS AAA server (AAA2) to=20 > find out where the UMTS AAA server (AAA1) is. > The AAA2 would ask the UMTS AuC/ AAA for the authentication=20 > vectors for the supplicant and then act as EAP-AKA server and=20 > complete the authentication. >=20 > We are now running into a couple of issues: >=20 > 1) looking at 3G documentation it seems that the UMTS AuC=20 > does not pass the authentication vectors (AVs) to the AAA2,=20 > the AuC acts as AAAH and authenticates the supplicant itself,=20 > so basically UMTS operator does not trust the non-UMTS=20 > network AAA server (say WLAN) with Avs, is this understanding=20 > true? Or could we do it as below (in other words was the=20 > EAP-AKA intended for use by a visited AAA server). >=20 > 2) Even if we modify that trust model and have the AAA2=20 > authenticate the supplicant directly with borrowed Avs, what=20 > is the process for fetching this Avs, it does not seem to be=20 > specified in the draft or anywhere. We looked into RFC 2548=20 > and thought may be we could use an Access Request/ Access=20 > accept process to pass the Avs from AAA1 to AAA2, using=20 > MS-MPPE-Send-Key, but we are not sure if this is appropriate=20 > and not sure what the request would be like, or how to=20 > encrypt the keys. So any hints are appreciated. >=20 > 3) in the second model, if the identity supported by=20 > supplicant points to the AAA1, we are not sure how the AAA2=20 > could be configured to not send the authentication request to=20 > the AAA1 and perform this locally. And at the same time the=20 > AAA2 will probably have to use the identity provided by the=20 > supplicant to AAA1 to allow the latter find the=20 > authentication credentials as well as direct the AAA2 to=20 > perform EAP-AKA. > Basically it seems that the EAP/ID response will be forwarded=20 > to AAA1, EAP/request with EAP-AKA type will also come from=20 > AAA1, but the rest of EAP-AKA is performed by the AAA2. So it=20 > seems that the peer-to-peer EAP model will be broken here. >=20 > Should we abandon the second model due to operator trust=20 > issues? Or modify the EAP process? Or ... >=20 > Help is appreciated. >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 12 16:33:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3gDG-00074G-GF for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:33:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00046 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4C52047E; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645892045F; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:33:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3382045F for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate5.mot.com (motgate5.mot.com [144.189.100.105]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01FF72044E for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate5.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate5) with ESMTP id j7CKcwck004231 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exm03.cig.mot.com (il27exm03.cig.mot.com [10.17.193.4]) by az33exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j7CKatVD018994 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:36:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: by il27exm03.cig.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:32:10 -0500 Message-ID: From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 To: henry.haverinen@nokia.com, eap@frascone.com Cc: jari.Arkko@ericsson.com, Shin Min-Ho-A00057 , Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RE: Question on EAP-AKA trust model Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:32:08 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Hi Henry, Thank you for your comments. Yes, I agree that fetching vectors is not part of EAP-AKA specification. I was merely asking for guidance. Your comments confirms my understanding that the 3GPP AAA server does not share the vectors (after fetching them from HSS) with the visited network (as it would with a VLR), which means the peer cannot authenticate to anybody but home. I will take a look at the 29.234 to see whether I can find the AVPs that carry the Avs. Thanks again, Madjid -----Original Message----- From: henry.haverinen@nokia.com [mailto:henry.haverinen@nokia.com] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:00 AM To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; eap@frascone.com Cc: jari.Arkko@ericsson.com; Shin Min-Ho-A00057 Subject: RE: Question on EAP-AKA trust model Hello Madjid, EAP-AKA defines the EAP method between the peer and the EAP server. The system architecture is not in the scope of the EAP-AKA document. In particular, how the vectors are retrieved and the protocols between the EAP server and the AuC are not EAP-AKA issues. In 3GPP, the system architecture is discussed in TS 23.234. The EAP server is included in the 3GPP AAA server, which is a home operator element. The Wx reference point between the AAA server and the HSS is based on Diameter (TS 29.234). Alternatively, a legacy MAP interface (D') can be used to fetch vectors from a legacy HLR. In both cases, routing to the HSS/HLR is ultimately based on the IMSI. I don't have the 3GPP2 document numbers right now, but to my recollection the status is similar: the EAP server is considered a home operator element. So authentication vectors are not sent to the visited network. The visited network may still deploy an AAA proxy server, such as the 3GPP AAA proxy discussed in 3GPP TS 23.234. I hope this helps. Henry > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 > [mailto:Madjid.Nakhjiri@motorola.com] > Sent: 11 August, 2005 02:02 > To: eap@frascone.com > Cc: Haverinen Henry (Nokia-ES/Jyvaskyla); jari.Arkko@ericsson.com; > Shin Min-Ho-A00057; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 > Subject: Question on EAP-AKA trust model > > > Hi folks, authors, > > We are trying to implement the EAP-AKA process with the > following topology > > UMTS AuC/AAA----non-UMTS AAA server----AP/NAS----supplicant > (AAA1) (AAA2) > Here was what we were originally thinking: > The supplicant would respond to the EAP-ID from the NAS with > an identity that would help the non-UMTS AAA server (AAA2) to > find out where the UMTS AAA server (AAA1) is. > The AAA2 would ask the UMTS AuC/ AAA for the authentication > vectors for the supplicant and then act as EAP-AKA server and > complete the authentication. > > We are now running into a couple of issues: > > 1) looking at 3G documentation it seems that the UMTS AuC > does not pass the authentication vectors (AVs) to the AAA2, > the AuC acts as AAAH and authenticates the supplicant itself, > so basically UMTS operator does not trust the non-UMTS > network AAA server (say WLAN) with Avs, is this understanding > true? Or could we do it as below (in other words was the > EAP-AKA intended for use by a visited AAA server). > > 2) Even if we modify that trust model and have the AAA2 > authenticate the supplicant directly with borrowed Avs, what > is the process for fetching this Avs, it does not seem to be > specified in the draft or anywhere. We looked into RFC 2548 > and thought may be we could use an Access Request/ Access > accept process to pass the Avs from AAA1 to AAA2, using > MS-MPPE-Send-Key, but we are not sure if this is appropriate > and not sure what the request would be like, or how to > encrypt the keys. So any hints are appreciated. > > 3) in the second model, if the identity supported by > supplicant points to the AAA1, we are not sure how the AAA2 > could be configured to not send the authentication request to > the AAA1 and perform this locally. And at the same time the > AAA2 will probably have to use the identity provided by the > supplicant to AAA1 to allow the latter find the > authentication credentials as well as direct the AAA2 to > perform EAP-AKA. > Basically it seems that the EAP/ID response will be forwarded > to AAA1, EAP/request with EAP-AKA type will also come from > AAA1, but the rest of EAP-AKA is performed by the AAA2. So it > seems that the peer-to-peer EAP model will be broken here. > > Should we abandon the second model due to operator trust > issues? Or modify the EAP process? Or ... > > Help is appreciated. > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 12 18:53:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3iOj-0006nX-NI for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:53:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09210 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA8A204C1; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D59204A0; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:53:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F8D204A0 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (mgw.toshibaamericaresearch.com [12.42.230.245]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 01F2420496 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tarij-18.tari.toshiba.com [172.30.24.50]) by toshi17.tari.toshiba.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j78DJQaA021841 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:19:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from yohba@tari.toshiba.com) To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: <20050808130652.GC14843@steelhead> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Yoshihiro Ohba X-Dispatcher: imput version 20050308(IM148) Lines: 1 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] test Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:06:52 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Please ignore. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 12 19:19:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3int-0004qj-Uu for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:19:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10175 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E89204C1; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1929E204A0; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:19:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9577C204A0 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1E720496 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Aug 2005 16:18:51 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,104,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="654631760:sNHT28275376" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7CNIk0J026374; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:18:46 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B61394@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWeqFr+fW9GGERvSM2u4MhjqdnE3AA67h+Q From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:23:33 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm > wrong): >=20 > - Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be=20 > removed (but needs some modification to carry a blob in order=20 > to avoid the IANA assignment issue.) >=20 > - Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be=20 > specified as an extension to EAP keying framework. >=20 [Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 12 20:14:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3jf6-0001FB-ID for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:14:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA11994 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D54204BC; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C00420389; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:14:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7775420389 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AD6202C9 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7D0D9rr023379; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:09 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j7D0D9Ow027776; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp1.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.192.124] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id KAA27772 ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:08 +0900 Received: from mx.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp1.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7D0D8e9026991; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j7D0D8PS020802; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7D0D7GQ014178; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([172.30.24.43]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0IL4005S0WLQ4MA0@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:13:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E3eZQ-0007LW-Dh; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:47:56 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding In-reply-to: <20050811194027.GO18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> To: Nicolas Williams Cc: jsalowey@cisco.com, eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050812184756.GB27962@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <20050810194125.GU18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> <20050811194027.GO18081@binky.Central.Sun.COM> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:47:56 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 02:40:27PM -0500, Nicolas Williams wrote: > > > > OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm > > wrong): > > > > - Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but needs > > some > > modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA assignment issue.) > > > > - Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be specified as an > > extension to > > EAP keying framework. > > I'm a bit of a neutral party in this, so far. You'll want to see what > Joe and the rest of the EAP community have to say. Going by what Joe > has written already I think that only proposals involving changes to > specs that have not been implemented and deployed have a chance of > producing consensus. I have not heard any channel binding solution implemented and deployed, and the above changes should be ok in this regard. Yoshihiro Ohba > > Nico > -- > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From relace@didamail.com Sat Aug 13 09:38:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3wDG-0002HA-I2; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:38:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21355; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E3wm0-0006qw-38; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:14:08 -0400 Received: from 216.237.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com ([65.33.237.216]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E3wDF-0003Jk-F6; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 09:38:13 -0400 Received: from lip-xofa.prib.net (HELO macabre-xaqa.net) by colloidal-ext.qdncl.net (8.9.0) with ESMTP id THI12fhnz; Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:40:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:36:28 -0600 From: "Alyson Langston" Message-ID: <141.61e558d5.2a9VKN44@swx.com> To: dorthy.bruno@ietf.org Subject: No regrets rates fixed X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. 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From ezusi@boardermail.com Sat Aug 13 11:03:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3xY4-0007Nh-Kd; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:03:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25779; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E3y6o-0000GE-9B; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:39:42 -0400 Received: from hlfxns0147w-142167204197.ns.aliant.net ([142.167.204.197]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E3xXy-0007ZI-BY; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:03:42 -0400 Received: from ny-tupperlake8b-162.albyny.adelphia.net (pD796D2D1.dip.t-dialin.net [196.220.68.152]) by vault.beonex.com with ESMTP id 288B9C0999B for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:54:38 +0300 Message-Id: <8734291120.3209017@bcc8.kofak.com> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 21:54:38 +0600 From: "Hilary Jarrett" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Cc: midcom-request@ietf.org, rserpool@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, adslmib-admin@ietf.org, ietf-registrar@ietf.org, manet-admin@ietf.org, mip6-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Our stock newsletter helps you make an Informed Investment-zuv 21 z X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Hot News From The Automotive Lending Industry!! +++++++++Current Profile+++++++++ InterFinancial Holdings, Corp (IFLH) Current Price $0.036 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Is this an undiscovered gem priced to go higher!! Please read the following Announcement in its Entirety and Consider the Possibilities… Watch this One to Trade! IFLH announces Senator David Cain has joined its Board of Directors!! IFLH volume trading is beginning to surge with landslide Announcement. The value of this stoc'k appears poised for growth! This one should not remain on the ground floor for long. BREAKING NEWS!! InterFinancial Holdings, Corp. (OTC Pink Sheets: IFLH - News) announced that they have added David Cain to their board of directors. David Cain is currently the Chairman of the advisory board to TTI (Texas Transportation Institute). Senator Cain represented Senate District 2 for eight years in the Texas Senate and Chaired the Senate State Affairs Subcommittee on Transportation and served nine terms in the Texas House of Representatives for District 107. During his twelve years as Chairman of the House Committee on Transportation, Senator Cain’s efforts on behalf of the people of Texas have been widely recognized. He was named to Texas Monthly Magazine’s list of “Ten Best Legislators,” the Dallas Morning News said he was one of the “outstanding” legislators of the 73rd session, and the Texas Department of Transportation awarded him the Russell H. Perry Award in 1995 for his efforts to gain public awareness of the need for and benefits of transportation facilities in the State of Texas. Jeffrey C. Bruteyn, Managing Director, stated, “We at InterFinancial are proud to have such a widely recognized Senator join our board and oversee out automotive lending division. His affiliations and connections to the automotive industry will be invaluable to our company.” Senator Cain will be instrumental in expediting our approval to use a government issued Seller Finance License. Seller Finance Licenses are very difficult to obtain and are usually reserved for the Big Boys with heavy lobbyists. These licenses are highly coveted because it allows the finance company to collect the entire down payment, instead of paying a portion of it to the taxing authority. This dramatically helps a finance company’s bottom line if the buyer defaults on the loan. With the new GPS tracking systems being installed on every car to dramatically improve repossessions and with Senator Cain on the Board of Directors, InterFinancial Holdings is ready to take their business to the next level. Conclusion: The examples above show the Awesome, Earning Potential of little known Companies That Explode onto Investor’s Radar Screens. This st0c'k will not be a Secret for long. Then You May Feel the Desire to Act Right Now! And Please Watch This One Trade!! GO IFLH! All statements made are our express opinion only and should be treated as such. We may own, take position and sell any securities mentioned at any time. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, goals, expectations, beliefs, plans, proje.ctions, objectives, assumpti0ns or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward lo0king statements." Forward looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. This newsletter was paid four thousand dollars from a party (IR Marketing). Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as: "proj,ects", "for;esee", "expects". in compliance with Secti0n 17(.b), we disclose the holding of IF LH shares prior to the publication of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such holdings due to our intent to profit from the liquidation of these shares. Shares may be sold at any time, even after positive statements have been made regarding the above company. Since we own shares, there is an inherent conflict of interest in our statements and opinions. Readers of this publication are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which are based on certain assumptions and expectations involving various risks and uncertainties that could cause results to differ materially from those set forth in the forward- looking statements. Th.is is not solicitation to buy or sell st'ocks, this text is for informational purpose only and you should seek professional advice from registered financial advisor before you do anything related with buying or selling s,tocks, penny stoc;ks are very high risk and you can lose your entire investment. From dwjtqi@wildmail.com Sat Aug 13 13:59:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E40Hc-0001fh-Mh; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:59:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02189; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E40qJ-0004A0-5z; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:34:56 -0400 Received: from bbb72-0-171-253.bendbroadband.com ([72.0.171.253]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E40HW-0004j4-3e; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:58:54 -0400 Received: from chajaily.toadis.tortis ([150.13.160.188]) by gt4.optu.br (InterMail vG.3.18.45.85 201-2635-575-20040331) with ESMTP id <22831101151738.QLSU3318.gx4.fuse.net@optu.br> for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:52:55 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:53:55 +0100 From: "Arlene Aaron" To: iptel@ietf.org Subject: A New Penny-stock Profile-vrf 74 hxo X-Mailer: InterMail vG.7.82.58.27 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Hot News From The Automotive Lending Industry!! +++++++++Current Profile+++++++++ InterFinancial Holdings, Corp (IFLH) Current Price $0.036 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Is this an undiscovered gem priced to go higher!! Please read the following Announcement in its Entirety and Consider the Possibilities… Watch this One to Trade! IFLH announces Senator David Cain has joined its Board of Directors!! IFLH volume trading is beginning to surge with landslide Announcement. The value of this stoc'k appears poised for growth! This one should not remain on the ground floor for long. BREAKING NEWS!! InterFinancial Holdings, Corp. (OTC Pink Sheets: IFLH - News) announced that they have added David Cain to their board of directors. David Cain is currently the Chairman of the advisory board to TTI (Texas Transportation Institute). Senator Cain represented Senate District 2 for eight years in the Texas Senate and Chaired the Senate State Affairs Subcommittee on Transportation and served nine terms in the Texas House of Representatives for District 107. During his twelve years as Chairman of the House Committee on Transportation, Senator Cain’s efforts on behalf of the people of Texas have been widely recognized. He was named to Texas Monthly Magazine’s list of “Ten Best Legislators,” the Dallas Morning News said he was one of the “outstanding” legislators of the 73rd session, and the Texas Department of Transportation awarded him the Russell H. Perry Award in 1995 for his efforts to gain public awareness of the need for and benefits of transportation facilities in the State of Texas. Jeffrey C. Bruteyn, Managing Director, stated, “We at InterFinancial are proud to have such a widely recognized Senator join our board and oversee out automotive lending division. His affiliations and connections to the automotive industry will be invaluable to our company.” Senator Cain will be instrumental in expediting our approval to use a government issued Seller Finance License. Seller Finance Licenses are very difficult to obtain and are usually reserved for the Big Boys with heavy lobbyists. These licenses are highly coveted because it allows the finance company to collect the entire down payment, instead of paying a portion of it to the taxing authority. This dramatically helps a finance company’s bottom line if the buyer defaults on the loan. With the new GPS tracking systems being installed on every car to dramatically improve repossessions and with Senator Cain on the Board of Directors, InterFinancial Holdings is ready to take their business to the next level. Conclusion: The examples above show the Awesome, Earning Potential of little known Companies That Explode onto Investor’s Radar Screens. This st0c'k will not be a Secret for long. Then You May Feel the Desire to Act Right Now! And Please Watch This One Trade!! GO IFLH! All statements made are our express opinion only and should be treated as such. We may own, take position and sell any securities mentioned at any time. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, goals, expectations, beliefs, plans, proje.ctions, objectives, assumpti0ns or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward lo0king statements." Forward looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. This newsletter was paid four thousand dollars from a party (IR Marketing). Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as: "proj,ects", "for;esee", "expects". in compliance with Secti0n 17(.b), we disclose the holding of IF LH shares prior to the publication of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such holdings due to our intent to profit from the liquidation of these shares. Shares may be sold at any time, even after positive statements have been made regarding the above company. Since we own shares, there is an inherent conflict of interest in our statements and opinions. Readers of this publication are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which are based on certain assumptions and expectations involving various risks and uncertainties that could cause results to differ materially from those set forth in the forward- looking statements. Th.is is not solicitation to buy or sell st'ocks, this text is for informational purpose only and you should seek professional advice from registered financial advisor before you do anything related with buying or selling s,tocks, penny stoc;ks are very high risk and you can lose your entire investment. From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Aug 13 17:23:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E43TD-0004pb-54 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:23:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA12565 for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A9020277; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D7A1FE14; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D711FE14 for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EF51FE02 for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1E43Sn-0001Od-NY for eap@frascone.com; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:22:45 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id j7DLMhS12893 for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:22:43 -0700 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: <20050813160002.22315.18749.Mailman@xavier> Message-ID: References: <20050813160002.22315.18749.Mailman@xavier> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Re: Channel Binding Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > Key-derivation based channel binding solution should be > specified as an extension to EAP keying framework. A question: is this an EAP issue or a AAA and lower layer issue? From an EAP point of view, the EAP method passes down the exported parameters to the lower layer. The lower layer then can compute any required keying material from the exported parameters and the Channel Bindings. The same is true on the AAA server, which operates as an EAP lower layer on the server side. So as far as I can see, no changes are needed to EAP, EAP methods, or the EAP key management framework in order to support Yoshi's proposal. All that is required is a specification for how the AAA client requests the mixed key and how it is transported. Presumably such a key cannot be transported in the Diameter EAP-Master-Session-Key attribute or in the RFC 2548 attributes since it is not an MSK. Of course, such a AAA specification would not be useful unless a lower layer were to exist that would use it, so you'd need a lower layer specification as well. 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    ------------86BE8803F581075-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 15 15:06:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4kHj-0005F6-GY for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:06:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20090 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2066204CD; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5222A204BC; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:06:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E55204BC for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDBB020483 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Aug 2005 12:05:12 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,108,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="332367286:sNHT753651430" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7FJ5Aoo023598; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:05:10 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Channel Binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B6155A@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Channel Binding Thread-Index: AcWgThAzRVNYCf6oR1uAB/gJvSYTywBfBe6Q From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Bernard Aboba" , X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:09:56 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard, Yoshi's proposal of Channel binding through key binding is not a direct EAP requirement, however it impacts the system using EAP. I don't know exactly what would go in a keying framework extension document at this point, but if the channel binding functionality is important enough to mention in the keying framework then it seems if we this is to provide or supplement this functionality then it should be mentioned as an alternative.=20 As you mention, although it does not require changes to the EAP method behavior it does require changes on the lower layer and the AAA that are not the way things operate in practice today.=20 Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:aboba@internaut.com]=20 > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 2:23 PM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] Re: Channel Binding >=20 > > Key-derivation based channel binding solution should be=20 > specified as=20 > > an extension to EAP keying framework. >=20 > A question: is this an EAP issue or a AAA and lower layer issue? >=20 > From an EAP point of view, the EAP method passes down the=20 > exported parameters to the lower layer. >=20 > The lower layer then can compute any required keying material=20 > from the exported parameters and the Channel Bindings. >=20 > The same is true on the AAA server, which operates as an EAP=20 > lower layer on the server side. >=20 > So as far as I can see, no changes are needed to EAP, EAP=20 > methods, or the EAP key management framework in order to=20 > support Yoshi's proposal. >=20 > All that is required is a specification for how the AAA=20 > client requests the mixed key and how it is transported. =20 > Presumably such a key cannot be transported in the Diameter=20 > EAP-Master-Session-Key attribute or in the RFC 2548=20 > attributes since it is not an MSK. >=20 > Of course, such a AAA specification would not be useful=20 > unless a lower layer were to exist that would use it, so=20 > you'd need a lower layer specification as well. >=20 > However, as far as I can see, no EAP key management extension=20 > is required here. > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From bremsstrahlungjevma@antoinemoreau.net Mon Aug 15 18:12:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4nBw-0003Zo-Rb; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:12:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07941; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E4nkB-0005lB-8Q; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:47:50 -0400 Received: from 24-241-121-003.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com ([24.241.121.3]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E4nAw-0007JT-Af; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:11:23 -0400 Received: from aver.bannercard.com (kelwin.bannercard.com [jareb.DC]) by barnabe.bannercard.com (Chotfix) with ESMTP id EC84adjutant Message-Id: <03gracen.0GMYXPUMOYEloy@bannercard.com> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:04:17 -0300 From: "Brandie Tanner" To: ietfauto@ietf.org Cc: disman@ietf.org, ietf-web@ietf.org, speechsc@ietf.org, adslmib-admin@ietf.org, secdir-admin@ietf.org, secdir@ietf.org, routing-discussion-request@ietf.org, l2tpext-admin@ietf.org, iptel-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, ipoverib-admin@ietf.org, dccp-request@ietf.org Subject: eLending Payment Complete X-Sender: GMYXPUMOYEloy@bannercard.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
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Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:07:42 +0530 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.728) X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CHINA DIGITAL MEDIA CORPORATION REPORTS STRONG FINANCIAL RESULTS Revenues and Net Income Increase 59% and 38% Respectively Monday was FANTASIC as stock trades AMAZING 435.000 shares, now news is out so stand back and watch this take off !!! SYMBOL: CDGT Current Price: $2.33 2-5 Day Trading: $5-7 Press Release Source: China Digital Media Corporation China Digital Media Corporation Reports Strong Financial Results: Second Quarter of 2005 Revenues and Net Income Increase 59% and 38% Respectively Monday August 15, 8:00 am ET HONG KONG, Aug. 15 /Xinhua-PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- China Digital Media Corporation ("Digimedia") (OTC Bulletin Board: CDGT - News) announced today its financial results for the Second Quarter ended June 30, 2005. Financial Highlights for the Three Months Ended June 30, 2005 Compared to the Three Months Ended June 30, 2004: -- Revenues increased 59% to $1,310,811 from $822,210 -- EBITDA improved 80% to $996,975 from $554,723 -- Net Income increased 38% to $705,651 from $511,411 Financial Highlights for the Six Months Ended June 30, 2005 Compared to the Six Months Ended June 30, 2004: -- Revenues increased 56% to $2,304283 from $1,481,519 -- EBITDA improved 78% to $1,697,766 from $951,343 -- Net Income increased 29% to $1,143,504 from $883,255 The strong performance in the second quarter of 2005 compared to the same period in 2004 was primarily due to the increase in number of TV subscribers, sales of Pay-TV and revenues from commercial accounts of digitalization of television signals. Furthermore, the company experienced significant growth in the second quarter of 2005 as compared to the first quarter of 2005. "We are very delighted with our strong performance in the second quarter of 2005. These results confirm our efforts in migration of the television broadcasting system and the operations of Pay-TV services in Nanhai, China. In addition, the per-subscriber revenue has increased significantly," said Mr. Daniel Ng, Chairman and CEO of China Digital Media Corporation. "We anticipate continued strong results from our core business. Our recent investments and upcoming acquisitions could further contribute considerably in our growth during the second half of 2005," Mr. Ng added. WE TOLD YOU MONDAY WAS GOING TO BE WOW, WATCH TUESDAY AS IT EXPLODES AGAIN ! Disclaimer: Information within this email contains "forwardlooking statements" within the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking statements". "Forward looking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and business consumption habits and other factors overwhich the company has little or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, ST0CKs, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in ST0CKs featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this ST0CK. We urge you to read the company's SEC filings now, before you invest. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered invstment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. In compliance with the SecuritiesAct of 1933, Section 17(b), The publisher of this newsletter is contracted to receive six hundred thousand free trading shares from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias. The party that paid us has a position in the ST0CK they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the ST0CK, causing you to lose money. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings, Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within this email constitutes your acceptance of these terms. From RootPiros4841@jetcorp.com Tue Aug 16 07:32:32 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4zgG-0004hg-Gu for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:32:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03958 for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:32:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-65-65-77-74.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net ([65.65.77.74] helo=jetcorp.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E50FX-0006PO-D7 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:09:03 -0400 From: "Piroska Root" To: "Mosi Rider" Message-ID: <005701c5a256$2ca7aa80$d1eba8c0@ratable> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 06:32:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5A22C.43D1A280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VI=C2GRRA_Awesome?= X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5A22C.43D1A280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, noise of this ball generally werent heard outside? 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5A22C.43D1A280-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Aug 16 14:19:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E561p-0000Tf-7X for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:19:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA26800 for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE4B20502; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79ED9204FA; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:19:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C06204FA for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.58]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAAF6203E7 for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j7GIBvfD019976 for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Clancy X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B61394@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B61394@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:06:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Fri, 12 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: >> OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm >> wrong): >> >> - Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but >> needs some modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA >> assignment issue.) >> >> - Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be specified as >> an extension to EAP keying framework. >> > > [Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. I concur. I'm planning to add channel binding support to EAP-PAX. In a perfect world, I think it should be done within EAP itself. However, I think implementation changes make this an unrealistic for deployment in the forseeable future. Consequently, methods should continue providing this functionality until it can be moved to a more appropriate place. 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Timing is everything!!! Profits of 300-400% EXPECTED TRADING SYMBOL: CWTD.OB CURRENT PRICE 2.20 Projection 5 to 7 Days 4.50 - 5.00 Projection 8 to 12 Days 6.00 - 8.00 ..MORE MAJOR NEWS CAN COME AT ANYTIME... China World Trade Corporation Acquires Hotel Booking And Group Tour Travel Agency Monday August, 8th 8:42 am ET Company's Strategic Acquisition Further Positions Itself as a Leading Business Services Company in China GUANGZHOU, China, Aug./Xinhua-PRNewswire/ -- China World Trade Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: CWTD - News; "CWTC") announced today that its subsidiary Guangdong New Generation Commercial Management Co., Ltd ("New Generation"), entered into an agreement to acquire Guangdong Hao Shi Guang Travel Agency Limited ("Hao Shi Guang") from Guangdong Rising Hotel Group Co., Ltd ("Guangdong Rising Group"). Under the agreement, New Generation will obtain a majority stake of up to 70% of Hao Shi Guang through a capital injection. The cooperation will also include a joint development of an interactive hotel booking system connecting Guangdong Rising Group hotel chains and integrating them into New Generation's current travel booking enterprise system which will further enhance its travel offerings to New Generation's customers. "We are excited and confident that our cooperation with CWTC's travel subsidiary, New Generation will lead to future success in the continued development of our travel business in Southern China," said Mr. Bangfu He, President of Guangdong Rising Group, "The Guangdong Rising Group runs a wide range of travel related services including hotel bookings, group travel services and ground transportation arrangements. This strategic acquisition will allow us to capture more of Southern China's travel market share by offering a broader range of services to our customers." A $1,000 dollar investment could yield a $5,000 dollar profit in just one trade if you trade out at the top. CWTD should be one of the most profitable stocks to trade this year. In this range the stock has potential to move in either direction in bigs wings. This means you should be able to buy at the lows and sell at the highs for months to come. YOU COULD MAKE $$$THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS$$ TRADING. CWTD OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If the company is able to effectuate it's business model, WATCH OUT!!! We could see a GREAT STORY IN THE MAKING. GOOD LUCK AND TRADE OUT AT THE TOP!!!! Disclaimer: Information within this email contains "forwardlooking statements" within the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking statements". "Forward looking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and business consumption habits and other factors overwhich the company has little or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, ST0CKs, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in ST0CKs featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this ST0CK. We urge you to read the company's SEC filings now, before you invest. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered invstment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. In compliance with the SecuritiesAct of 1933, Section 17(b), The publisher of this newsletter is contracted to receive six hundred thousand free trading shares from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias. The party that paid us has a position in the ST0CK they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the ST0CK, causing you to lose money. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings, Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C5A308.AC8E4D00-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 17 10:22:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E5Ony-0003pM-8W for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:22:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03910 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C5C2050D; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE95204A9; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:22:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F5C204A9 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D607B2048C for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3813489852; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:21:39 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430347FF.3090201@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Cc: jouni.korhonen@teliasonera.com, "Kroeselberg, Dirk" , Bernard Aboba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] preliminary meeting minutes from IETF-63 Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:21:51 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please send additions, corrections, and comments to the list or to the chairs. Thank you Dirk and Jouni for taking notes! ----- EAP WG Meeting at IETF #63 Location: Paris, France Date: August 2nd, 2005 Time: 14:00-16:20 Notes: Jouni korhonen and Dirk Kroeselberg (merging by Jari Arkko) 1. Preliminaries (5 min) -- Jari Arkko Agenda bashing Blue sheets and notes takers Arkko: Doing agenda bashing and presenting the issue tracker. No changes to the agenda. 2. Document Status (5 min) -- Jari Arkko o 2x RFCs out o 2x in RFC queue - EAP State Machine - EAP SIM & AKA o Keying framework: still some open issues o Netsel problem definition -> expired - Volunteers needed for this draft to make progress (several volunteers signed up later). o Adrangi Network discovery (draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-13.txt) - Should be in back IESG review shortly - Margaret Wasseman is in charge of this inividual draft, some discussion ongoing. o IANA allocatios and Individual RFC publications requested - EAP PAX, PSK, Smartcard Type, Double TLS, EAP IKEv2 o EAP method revies req: - Double TLS, Smartcard Type, IKEv2 status currently DENIED pending modifications per reviewer's requests 3. Keying Framework issues (30 min) -- Joe Salowey Goal: Discuss issues http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt Joe Salowey gives the presentation: - Whole thing has been split into three different documents o Housley-aaa-key - describes the general requirements for AAA key management, intended as BCP. o EAP-keying - Describes the existing EAP key management usage o EAP key management extensions - Describes extensions to EAP key management model. - www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-aboba-eap-keying-extns-00.txt - This is an early version. Jari: Are Russ' requirements binding? For EAP, there are pretty precise definitions of the requirements, what happens if there are conflicting requirements? Who gets to discuss the content of Russ' document? (Russ not present) Closed issues: 300, 305 Issue 306: to be handled in Yoshi's presentation afterwards. Issues discussed today (read the slides for the content): 294 - Analyzing existing EAP usage - Analyzy what (802.1X, PPP, 802,11i) - Analyze against (Housley criteria) - No one present in the meeting indicated having looked into this yet - Bernard has a detailed analysis in his site -- please comment. Alper: what are objectives of this analysis? Jari: understanding the security properties of the system Alper: there are a lot of systems than those 3 listed earlier Jari: Concentrate on known widely deployed cases.. however people are free to submit more analysis on other cases. Glen: widely deployed rules out PANA & IKEv2 etc Jari: that is debatable of course Someone: People willing to work on this is a good flow control.. So if people are willing to work on some analysis then just do it. Action item: Hannes and Dirk will review Bernard's text and post comments to the list. ** 299 - key caching, keys internal to EAP methods may be cached fast re-auth etc) o Jari: Issue was started by confusing text mentioning key caching. Hopefully we can scope how we can name and cache these keys like EMSK etc. Should be explicitly stated what is cached and where Do we need to name the keys cached in the EAP layer? EMSK and AMSK may be cached outside o EAP as possible extension, but should be out-of-scope for the keying framework. Other keys (MSK/AAA-Key) do not appear to need caching. Also relates to naming: if they are not cached in EAP, do they need a name? Action item: Joe volunteers to write the missing text. ** 302 - Domino effect clarifications o Alper: should we use Housley as a normative reference or not? o Jari: Housley is supposed to cover things beyond EAP o Alper: What if the domino effect definition ends up in both docs? Then they need to be synchronized beyond recognition... o Jari: Agree. But in the keying framework we can state a very specific requirement, and verify that its fulfilled. Action item: Alper to take this further. ** 307 - deletion of the security requirements section o Mostly editorial. o Jari: Bernard already sent a text proposal, which appears to solve the issue. ** 279 - Additional keying protocol requirements #307 may already remove the need for this. But need to make sure we cover these already. o Jari: Main thing is staying with the current system and not to look into stuff like fast handoffs o Jari: Any volunteer to go through Jesse's issue? o Joe: lets assign this to him.. Action item: Jari to ask Jesse Walker to check whether the new draft covers his requirements. ** Next steps o More people are needed to review this draft. Please review -08 version on Bernards web site. o 09 version in approx. 6 weeks. WGLC for this version, revised final for IETF-64 o Review draft-housley (AAA keying requirements) and resolve possible issues o Continue with extensions after IETF-64 and beyond. 4. Channel Bindings Goal: Discuss definitions, alternative schemes http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-01.txt and draft-arkko-eap-service-identity-auth-03.txt Yoshihiro Obha gives the presentation on lower layer parameter & channel bindings (read the slides for then content): Background for the discussion explained by Jari: Yoshi has a draft which suggests a channel binding mechanism which, if adopted, needs to go to the keying framework document so that the key calculation rules can be documented and standardized. Lets focus on the question if this is the way to go for the keying framework discussion or not. Ohba: Yoshi's draft is based on the list discussion on alternatives for this. The draft defines a key binding blob carrying lower layer information. The blob is sent by the authenticator to the server, and is an input to the key derivation. If the lower layer parameters of EAP peer and authenticator do not match, the lower-layer security cannot be successfully established (keys of supplicant and authenticator not matching). The solution impacts the AAA protocol (e.g. new Radius attribute), but its advantage is that it works for all EAP methods without requiring an extension to them. Main drawback is impact to deployed APs, and possible also to lower layers protocols such as 802.11. Pasi: Does not work with existing 802.11 access points. Yoshi: Yes, in this case AP can still use the legacy version, then EAP method support for channel binding would be required. Pasi: There are code changes? Obha: Yes. Joe: This should not be part of current keying framework, needs to many changes to existing stuff. John: Naming (channel binding) should be changed, since exact problem is not clear. Jari: Does not really belong into Housley document. Housley does not have much text HOW to implement these things. Joe: We need to clearer what problem we are trying to solve. The channel binding name might be slightly misnomer. Glen: EAP is so mixed up with AAA stuff, which causes lots of trouble. Probably belongs into the protocol, but it is not EAP. Pasi: Some documents call this \u201cthe EAP system\u201d, which is EAP plus other things. This is really the scope of the keying framework. Jari: Sounds like Yoshi's draft should not be part of keying framework. It may be worked on separately later, however. 5. Methods Discussion (40 min) Goal: Talk about the results of the reviews, make progress EAP PSK Review (10 min) -- J. Walker http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bersani-eap-psk-08.txt Independent submission to IESG. Requested EAP method type number. Reviewed by Jesse Walker in June. Update integrating some review points in -08 version. Still number of open issues, e.g. for key derivation. Key naming is not planned, since there is no application like fast reconnect. Discussion will be continued on list. Hannes: On key control issue: it wouldn't add more complexity to include it here. Bersani: ok, moving on adding the key control Jari: The right process for this is to talk about the issues and gather more expert reviews on the list Hannes: I am one of the authors of PSK, Jesse actually criticized some things he originally proposed so we are a bit confused what he wants. EAP IKEv2 Review (10 min) -- P. Eronen http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tschofenig-eap-ikev2-07.txt Pasi likes the approach, but document not considered ready. Inaccurate comparison to EAP-TLS mostly fixed in -07 version. Major issues e.g. with current fragmentation mechanism (since EAP is lock-step), fast reconnect does not clarify how the server picks the correct key, channel binding. Needs more work, but no major obstacles found. Dirk: Channel binding was not updated since authors had to wait for the outcome of Yoshi's proposal on channel binding. Hannes: Thanks to Pasi for the review. One additional issue on channel binding.. Could we come up with our own solution or reference to something (and if so to what?) Pasi: There are 2 ways how to do channel bindings (Obha and Pasi & Jari) no selection which one has been made Jari: I think we can do a decision on channel binding in the list after the meeting, which one of the two to select. We will send a question to the mailing list how to proceed with channel bindings. EAP Smartcard Type Review (5 min) -- G. Zorn http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-02.txt There are already a number of EAP methods on token or smartcard types. Expert review has been performed by Glen Zorn. Answers to the review comments: see presentation slides. Pascal disagrees with review comments in a few points, e.g. on the IANA requirements compliance. Some discussion about security claims. Glenn: Either take out security claims altogether, but then it must be clear that the method itself has no security properties. Jari: Running out of time, discuss this in the mailing list EAP Double TLS Review (5 min) -- H. Tschofenig http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-badra-double-tls-03.txt Found some confusing text about "inner" method. Many optional parts make analysis quite difficult. Some issues, e.g. key strength and hierarchy not properly documented. Crypto-binding still needs investigation. Relation to other TLS methods is important to be discussed, but has not been subject of review. Pascal: Just motivate goal of the draft. This is to use TLS-based shared key authentication. Jari: More discussion on the mailing list. EAP PAX Update (5 min) -- T. Clancy http://www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy/eap-pax/draft-clancy-eap-pax-04.txt - HostAP has an implementation of the EAP-PAX.. - IANA has allocated numbers - Would like to move it to standards track document either in this WG or in SECMECH Methods Work Situation Info (5 min) -- Jari Arkko Jari thanks the reviewers. Hopefully we will be able to work on few methods to get them into standards track, either here or in SECMECH. Please inform the list and the IESG on what needs to happen on this front. 6. Trusted Computing Group EAP Issues (20 min) -- John V. See the slides for the main content. Note: Different naming for lower layer nodes and functions in TNC than in IETF. General idea is to check client state before allowing network access (quarantined). For EAP, TNC is considering a new EAP method (protected method, inner method carried by outer method). This method could map to IF-TNCCS (see slides). The presentation is meant to seek feedback from the IETF EAP community, maybe create a formal liaison later on. Possible work could be a protected method, a generic "outer method", or inner method keying requirements in the keying framework. Jari: If you want more feedback on this.. Do you have anything else than these slides?? John: We have some but not all are publicly available. A participation to the consortium is generally required. May need a formal liaison, since TCG is a closed group. If such a method will be specified in IETF, this needs to be worked out. Jari: That has worked out earlier.. e.g. a certain consortium allows access to relevant documents for a certain WG. John: No standard "outer" method for protected EAP methods still exists. And is it possible to add "inner" capabilities to existing or planned methods?? Pasi: Sounds interesting and worth doing. Maybe without the help of EAP group. And we need those documents. Hannes: Also likes the idea.. Security Ads won't like this however.. Many of these things have already been discussed. But don't start with one specific tunnel method. The tunneled method might be inefficient as everything can be run inside the tunnel Jari: Tunnel methods can sometimes be used to avoid the IANA registration rules :) Glen: EAP specs currently do not define sequencing details, I thought that was clearly outlawed! Alper: Why? Glen: It was not allowed to run a sequence of EAP authentications. Alper: The latest 802.16e supports sequencing. Glenn: But this is not supported by the EAP spec Alper: These are two independent EAP sessions. However, discussion in IEEE is already closed. Jari: Volunteers to review for TCG..? Contact Jari. 7. EAP Enrollment (5 min) -- Rohan Mahy http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahy-eap-enrollment-00.txt Motivation is that small wireless devices (e.g. phones) are a pain to enrol onto WLANs. Basic proposal is to start with some weak credentials and then let the client fetch stronger credentials after that. Use existing methods. Presentation just seeks thoughts on this. Hannes: Very good thoughts and has also been thought here in this and other WGs earlier. Why we never managed to move this forward earlier? Alper: It goes back EAP applicability statement. Hannes: a number of methods provide the capability to exchange config parameters. Want to see some guidance on how to move things forward. Someone: Does not believe that a strong credential is better if authentication is started with weak credentials before. Rohan: but the server is authenticated. Jari: sorry, we are sort of pushed out of the room now. Hannes, do you think there is a general solution? Hannes: personal opinion that this could be a general solution. Enrol would be a valid place to drive this. Jari: Further discuss this on the list, need to get this done somehow. 8. Meeting concluded 16:20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 17 18:23:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E5WJU-0002Jb-GA for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:23:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07504 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8208A20528; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9338D2051F; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA582051F for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B475204B2 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7HMMMrr010172; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:23 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j7HMMMSw023829; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp2.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.166.115] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id HAA23825 ; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:22 +0900 Received: from mx2.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7HMMMBQ001013; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j7HMMLSE003110; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7HMMKGQ009976; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([172.30.24.135]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0ILE002MN0T3PPE0@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:22:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E5SnD-0000sm-AO; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:37:39 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding In-reply-to: To: Charles Clancy Cc: eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050817183739.GB3135@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B61394@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:37:39 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 02:06:47PM -0400, Charles Clancy wrote: > On Fri, 12 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > >>OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm > >>wrong): > >> > >>- Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but > >>needs some modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA > >>assignment issue.) > >> > >>- Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be specified as > >>an extension to EAP keying framework. > >> > > > >[Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. > > I concur. I'm planning to add channel binding support to EAP-PAX. I think whichever way channel parameters are carried as a blob (i.e., carried in EAP methods like EAP-IKEv2 and EAP-PAX, or carried in a AAA protocol as a key-binding-blob), the blob should have the same media-specific structure defined by each media (e.g., PANA, IKEv2, IEEE 802.11i, IKEv2, etc.). Suppose that media X defines a blob structure S and that media X is used between a peer and an authenticator. When the key-derivation based mechanismn is used for providing channel binding, a key-binding-blob has structure S. When an EAP-method based mechanism is used, a blog carried in an EAP method has the same structure S. This means that each media has the responsibility of defining media-specific blob structure regardless of solutions. Yoshihiro Ohba > > In a perfect world, I think it should be done within EAP itself. > However, I think implementation changes make this an unrealistic for > deployment in the forseeable future. Consequently, methods should > continue providing this functionality until it can be moved to a more > appropriate place. > > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] > [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From julieFrancis69@autogas.nl Wed Aug 17 19:04:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E5WxG-0002wa-Bq; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:04:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10306; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [218.90.166.139] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E5XWp-0001QE-6F; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:41:07 -0400 Received: from [152.245.130.175] (helo=farmingtonxikxs9) by secure.decennial.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1CzdyD-0000Yg-D9 for julieFrancis69@autogas.nl; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:54:37 -0700 Message-Id: <20050691755.j19CET4e489@localhost.localdomain> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:54:37 -0400 From: "Julie Kyle" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: it`s julie here Reply-To: X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 6.0 for Windows US sub 10567 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 My name is Julie :) Most of the time I like to do something I've never done before.. so I decided to have my first website featuring me (pics and videos). 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EXPLOSIVE PICK FOR OUR MEMBERS. WE TOLD YOU YESTERDAY THIS WAS GOING TO EXPLODE AND THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING!!! Stockguru.com: Guru Midday Alerts for Friday, August 19, 2005 - CHMS OTCPicks.com: Daily Market Movers Digest, Stock Alerts, Friday, August 19, CHMS OTCForum.com: OTC Forum Morning Alerts for Friday, August 19, 2005 - CHMS otcstockexchange.com: Mid-Day Stock Alert -- OTCStockExchange.com - CHMS CHMS TRADES OVER 1 MILLION SHARES AND PRICE GOES UP 0.46 +0.10 (+27.78%) OUR HOT PICK IS CHMS. SYMBOL: CHMS.OB CURRENT PRICE: $.45 5 Day Trading Projection: $1.75 WE GIVE IT TO YOU AS A GIFT AND THIS IS WHY!!! ********PRESS RELEASE********PRESS RELEASE********PRESS RELEASE******** China Mobility Solutions Reports Q2-2005 Financials Tuesday August 16, 7:00 am ET VANCOUVER, B.C., Aug. 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- China Mobility Solutions Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: CHMS - News) is pleased to announce its second quarter financial statements for the period ended June 30, 2005. All figures are in US dollars. The Company achieved revenues of $1,164,618 in the second quarter of 2005, compared to $62,769 for the same period in 2004. CHMS revenues are from net sales of mobile marketing services in China and education courses offered in Canada. During the Quarter, the Company's revenues from the two businesses were as follows: $1,133,972 from mobile marketing services and $30, 646 from education. CHMS controls 51% of the mobile marketing services company and acquired this interest subsequent to Q2 2004, which explains the year-over-year discrepancy in revenue. While revenue and costs of revenue have been consolidated for reporting purposes, a 49% minority interest in the mobile marketing business exists, reducing the net income by 49%. China Mobility Solutions (OTC Bulletin Board: CHMS - News) is a leading provider of mobile business solutions to many diverse corporations across China. With its rapidly growing client base of more than 20,000 Chinese companies and access to a further 500,000 companies through its proprietary database, China Mobility Solutions is well positioned to become one of the largest providers of mobile business solutions in China. The Company has proprietary profit-sharing contracts with China's largest telecommunications companies -- China Mobile, China Unicom and China Telecom. Analysts predict that by 2007, China will have more than 500 million mobile phones in operation. In 2003, more than 200 billion text messages were sent through mobile phones in China. At the quarter ended June 30, 2005, the Company had $5,843,782 in cash. *** REMEMBER THIS IS A "STONG BUY RECOMMENDATION" TO ALL OUR INVESTORS. WE SEE BIG THINGS HAPPENING. WATCH CHMS TRADE ON FRIDAY ... Disclaimer: Information within this email contains "forwardlooking statements" within the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking statements". "Forward looking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and business consumption habits and other factors overwhich the company has little or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, ST0CKs, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in ST0CKs featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this ST0CK. We urge you to read the company's SEC filings now, before you invest. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered invstment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. In compliance with the SecuritiesAct of 1933, Section 17(b), The publisher of this newsletter is contracted to receive six hundred thousand free trading shares from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias. The party that paid us has a position in the ST0CK they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the ST0CK, causing you to lose money. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings, Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within this email constitutes your acceptance of these terms. 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Rudy Ruettiger, the inspiration behind the highly successful and inspirational TriStar Pictures movie "Rudy" stated, "While the trend to juice (versus soda) in the vending machines is a step in the right direction in terms of nutrition, it still does not alleviate the high sugar content that is in many cases as high, if not higher, in juices as it is in soda. "Rudy Flying Colors" unique formula will address both nutritional needs as well as sugar content. This formula will make Rudy Flying Colors the ultimate healthy beverage for children. I completely agree with Bill Clinton, others in the media and the pediatrics community that we must start taking steps to ensure a healthier diet for our children now! Diabetes and obesity among our children is growing at a truly alarming rate." Rudy added, "I am hopeful that the mantra "Flying Colors" will become an inspiration for children all around America. We want kids to pass through life with flying colors, whether it is in academics, sports or their health. I have also spoken about how "it all starts with a dream" and to "never quit" and I believe that when it comes to the health of our children, none of us can afford to quit!" Rudy Flying Colors, which will be produced in multiple flavors, will be available at retail stores starting in the 4th quarter of 2005. In addition to placement in schools, EON Beverage will target mass-market retailers such as Wal-Mart to maximize the accessibility of the beverage to parents looking for a healthy alternative for their children. Success in penetrating this niche market will result in mainstream retailers marketing Island Tribe products to the huge, trendy teen market. Pacific Peaks portfolio-of-companies have excellent growth prospects and each one could become a stand-alone ppublicly traded company. If that happens, PPKIs investments could explode in value, providing early investors with terrific gains. Read all recent news on PPKi and you will most certainly agree that, This is a company to watch closely starting Monday! Disclaimer: Information within this email contains "forwardlooking statements" within the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking statements". "Forward looking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and business consumption habits and other factors overwhich the company has little or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, ST0CKs, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in ST0CKs featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this ST0CK. We urge you to read the company's SEC filings now, before you invest. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered invstment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. In compliance with the SecuritiesAct of 1933, Section 17(b), The publisher of this newsletter is contracted to receive six hundred thousand free trading shares from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias. The party that paid us has a position in the ST0CK they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the ST0CK, causing you to lose money. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings, Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within this email constitutes your acceptance of these terms. From tozwygzmlmtkhb@conch-house.com Mon Aug 22 03:52:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E776S-0004O6-Ds; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 03:52:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29053; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 03:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-67-112-224-122.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net ([67.112.224.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E77gw-0007jN-LW; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 04:30:05 -0400 Received: from chongolhost [94.69.185.232] by ethan (249.152.125.208) (userid 0) with SMTP (Classic Hamster Vr. 1.3 Build 1.1.14.150) ; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 06:52:11 -0200 Message-Id: <0101911093110.01145@jfuertes.maz.es> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:43:11 +0100 From: "Sherry Voss" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Wow brand new rolex! 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The high! profile jewelry you're looking for at the lowest prices in the nation!!.. http://www.onereplica.net Choose from our collection of Rolex watches! physik ec ct dly From CPZVZTMOWilcox@mukai.com Mon Aug 22 15:22:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7Hsl-0003Ol-JQ; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:22:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06688; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7ITJ-0003CS-Fi; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:00:45 -0400 Received: from wuw-s8a2wkzg.dybb.com ([216.203.126.11] helo=wuw-xjy2x380.dybb.com) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E7HsT-0003lr-3c; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:22:37 -0400 X-Apparently-To: bellevilGrady@goodkarmadomes.com via candee.gy; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:18:47 -0600 Received: from mail pickup service by gambia.gy with Microsoft SMTPNIN; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 01:18:47 +0500 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:17:47 -0700 Message-Id: <36928629depend.7bellevilGrady@goodkarmadomes.com> From: "Jeffry Mcclendon" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Cc: rohc-admin@ietf.org, ippm-admin@ietf.org, rddp-request@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org, ietf-info@ietf.org, ssm-request@ietf.org, ietf-rsvp@ietf.org, rafts@ietf.org, tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Subject: Here is the information your requested MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
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    Database Deletion:
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    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
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    Regards,

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    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.bmort.net/book.php From gundesHeather@euroeventi.net Mon Aug 22 18:08:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7KTL-00027C-1q; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:08:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24034; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7KTE-0002qt-Uu; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:08:49 -0400 Received: from [70.109.134.119] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E7KSt-0006zS-Ly; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:08:24 -0400 Received: from mask.net.tr (helo=brine) by smtp3.br with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (lunateintolerable)) id 8AKaB6-3605anatolloeveleigh-00 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:10:47 -0600 Message-Id: From: "Alyssa Lang" To: adslmib-admin@ietf.org Cc: owner@ietf.org, routing-discussion-admin@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, cfrg-request@ietf.org, ssion@ietf.org, ldap-dir@ietf.org, ssm@ietf.org, owner-wgchairs@ietf.org, iporpr-admin@ietf.org, ldapext-admin@ietf.org, diffserv-interest-request@ietf.org, gsmp@ietf.org Subject: Take Advantage of this Limited Time opportunity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
    I would like to inform you know that you have been pre-approved.

    Here are the results:

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    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.bmort.net/book.php From Blanca.Donovanlinley@cupogoodness.net Mon Aug 22 18:09:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7KUH-0002XB-Hd; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:09:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24268; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from prepaid.is.com.fj ([202.62.124.250]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7KUB-0002pY-Tt; Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:09:48 -0400 Received: from daigneau.mail.com.co (HELO glynis.mail.com.co) by gearalt.mail with SMTP; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 04:10:07 +0500 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 01:10:07 +0200 From: "Rita Mathis" To: rmt-request@ietf.org Cc: rps-archive@ietf.org, ssm@ietf.org, ipv6-admin@ietf.org, ieprep@ietf.org, simple@ietf.org, mailadm@ietf.org, list@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, cfrg-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, sipping-owner@ietf.org, pwe3-request@ietf.org Subject: 1 minute Refi Form X-Originating-Email: [Beverly222761Mcfarland@email30.com] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
    I would like to inform you know that you have been pre-approved.

    Here are the results:

    *Account ID: [373-188]
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    Regards,

    Rita Mathis
    Senior Account Manager
    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
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    Regards,

    Alva North
    Senior Account Manager
    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.bmort.net/book.php From rkckjsywru@asi3.com Tue Aug 23 14:14:30 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7dI6-0006kQ-J8; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:14:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20035; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7dI6-00055v-PA; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:14:40 -0400 Received: from [219.131.185.51] (helo=65.246.255.50) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E7dHm-0007eZ-J7; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:14:11 -0400 Received: from kellyeri.mail.com.co (HELO hansson.mail.com.co) by chitnis.mail with SMTP; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:01:28 -0600 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:01:28 -0500 From: "Gonzalo Yarbrough" To: simple@ietf.org Subject: Mortgage Refinance Loan Notification X-Originating-Email: [wdkxjtyfqbq@offwidth.com] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
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    Here are the results:

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    Regards,

    Gonzalo Yarbrough
    Senior Account Manager
    American National Lenders, LLC.

    Database Deletion:
    www.bmort.net/book.php From pmneu@yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 00:46:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7n9Z-0007DH-BQ; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:46:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29573; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7n9o-0000ps-Re; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:46:37 -0400 Received: from pcp03117144pcs.towerd01.fl.comcast.net ([68.47.144.235]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E7n9Z-0000hV-05; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:46:21 -0400 X-Message-Info: 0Y1YBOnivog335F752hnGDBrwFP590wgkKQ25wljHbqKUO7FUQ20 Received: from mail pickup service by 68.47.144.235 with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 01:44:23 -0400 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Reply-To: "Thanh " From: "Thanh " To: "Edu-team-web-archive" Subject: smallcap stoxs Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 02:43:23 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--265246665826450328" Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 ----265246665826450328 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-1191-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Market Watch Special Report Major mover last week (.78 to 1.10) Huge News Announcements This Week Billions in Chinese Contracts will Set Shares on Fire Symbol: GEECF Strong Buy Recommendation: Global Environmental Energy Corp. 7 Day Target: 3.00 Look for huge news to follow-up GEECF's blockbuster announcement: GEECF Enters Alliance Agreement on 70,000 Barrel Per Day Oil Refinery. 25 Million Barrels of Oil will be refined annually representing cash flow of 1.5 Billion per year. The former President of OPEC, Humberto Calderon Berti, has come on board to run GEECF 100% owned oil division, Sahara Petroleum. He is considered the most powerful figure in the international oil industry. Berti has been involved, and is still involved today in the exploration and production of the world's largest oil discoveries. He is also President and CEO of GEECF's partner, Vetra Oil Group. Perhaps the most significant factor is the bottom-line dollars commanded by Berti for his involvement in oil exploration and production projects. You can be assured that each project yields a minimum of 10 to 20 Billion annually for Berti to participate. Look at the pieces of the puzzle coming together. It is clearly obvious that the former OPEC President has orchestrated a monster of a deal involving an oil-rich property jointly owned by Sahara (GEECF) and Vetra Oil. Although no one is talking, in the last 90 days GEECF brings in Berti, who brings in Vetra Oil (whose clients are the world's largest oil super-majors), followed by the entry of a developer and refinery. Even though no specific oil deal has been disclosed, GEECF just revealed that they will "refine a large portion of its own oil at the new refinery." Fact: Billions in Oil Revenue for GEECF with only 35 million shares outstanding could easily translate into 5 or 10 dollars net per share earnings, designating GEECF as a hot, mid-tier oil player with NYSE qualifications. If this were the whole story, it would be more than ample reason to rate GEECF as our hottest pick of the year. However, in addition, there is a GEECF subsidiary dealing in the waste-to-energy sector that has secured a 10 Billion, 5-year contract with Chinese Government-run companies, including Yanzhou Coal Mining (NYSE: YZC, 44) to supply their technology throughout China. There are no other companies on the OTC that can match-up with GEECF and their Multi-Billions in deals on the table. GEECF shares will continue to soar and reward aggressive investors. GEECF is on target for record-breaking revenues while turning savvy market players into millionaires as the value of their oil projects are revealed. Disclosure: The information and opinions in this featured profile are based on sources believed to be reliable but no representation is made to its accuracy or completeness. Past performance is not an indicator of future results. This report is a paid profile for information purposes only and should not be used as the basis for any investment decision. This newsletter has been compensated ten thousand dollars for the preparation of this profile and for continuing coverage of the featured company. Newsletter publishers are not investment experts and this profile is not to be considered investment advice. This information is neither a solicitation to buy nor an offer to sell securities. Information herein contains future-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties. There are no shares presently held and no participation will occur in the trading of shares in any profiled company. ----265246665826450328-- From xxsvsmisygxhg@intertoys.nl Wed Aug 24 04:04:40 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7qFU-0006OX-L9; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 04:04:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05564; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 04:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [200.168.112.167] (helo=200-168-112-167.speedyterra.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7qFj-0006fi-D2; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 04:04:58 -0400 Received: from chongolhost [102.76.235.101] by ethan (193.60.220.47) (userid 0) with SMTP (Classic Hamster Vr. 1.3 Build 1.0.35.150) ; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:00:17 +0300 Message-Id: <0103811050880.01145@jfuertes.maz.es> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:01:17 +0100 From: "Aline Denton" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Become VIP in few minutes X-Mailer: WebMail Check v2.3.21 (2000-7-19) X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Superb Quality Rolex. The high! profile jewelry you're looking for at the lowest prices in the nation!!.. http://www.onereplica.net Choose from our collection of Rolex watches! licensee bh pun hs From fierceness@kinetek.com Wed Aug 24 10:04:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7vrP-00052f-At for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:04:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22123 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bew97.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.28.34.97]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7vri-0001IJ-Sc for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:04:32 -0400 Received: from [119.83.132.142] (port=19360 helo=[busily]) by bew97.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl with esmtp id 5713050965boxers89391 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:05:22 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <11325439833.11374544068@bew97.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: "Louise" Subject: Informed Investors are winners Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:05:21 +0200 X-Mailer: conductor enclose X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for a company with some good news? Here's one! ***** CDGT ***** CDGT ***** CDGT ***** CDGT ***** CDGT ***** CDGT ***** Major Financial NEWS CDGT has more News that came. Looks like CDGT is not willing to miss a beat! SYMBOL: CDGT CURRENT PRICE: $2.20 Short-Term : $6 China Digital Media Corporation Announces Launch of IP Based Set-Top-Box In China Monday August 22, 8:00 am ET HONG KONG, Aug. 22 /Xinhua-PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- China Digital Media Corporation ("Digimedia") (OTC Bulletin Board: CDGT - News) today announced the launch of a trial for a new IP based Set-Top-Box ("STB") in Nanhai, a city in Guangdong province with 400,000 Cable TV subscribers. The Company is one of the first digital TV operators in China to deploy the trial of IP based STB with its high-end users. The new STB in trial is equipped with an Ethernet port which could facilitate various Internet based services to end users; such as video-on-demand, online shopping channels, online games and interactive education services. The new STB is developed in coordination with Shenzhen Coship Electronics Co. Ltd. ("Coship") that could transform a television set into an interactive and a multimedia platform. "Partnering with Coship in developing the IP based STB is our strategy in advancing the quality of our broadcasting services. We believe the provision of value-added services through digitalized network will be a new business model in digital TV operation and this new IP based STB will give us a head start," said Mr. Daniel Ng, Chairman and CEO of China Digital Media Corporation. "We intend to invest and participate in system migration projects in other cities like our Nanhai model. This collaboration with Coship and the new IP based STB will provide us a convincing advantage to gain more contracts in the future that would allow our Company to grow faster and to enlarge our service coverage," Mr. Ng added. About China Digital Media Corporation : China Digital Media Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: CDGT - News) focuses its business in three main areas: Cable TV Operations, Programs Production and Advertising Sales. Arcotect Technology (GZ) Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of CDGT in China, is the sole contractor and operator of digital television services in Nanhai, a city with 400,000 cable TV subscribers. The service could offer more than 800 digital channels of pay TV programs and value added multimedia services. The Group is seeking to establish similar models elsewhere in China. About Shenzhen Coship Electronics Co. Ltd. This is a company to watch closely starting NOW! They have been known to make BIG moves and we feel there is one coming !!! Last time we issued a watch we watched CHMS go from .36 to .73 in 4 DAYS ! Disclaimer: Information within this email contains "forwardlooking statements" within the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking statements". "Forward looking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and business consumption habits and other factors overwhich the company has little or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, ST0CKs, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in ST0CKs featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this ST0CK. We urge you to read the company's SEC filings now, before you invest. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered invstment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. In compliance with the SecuritiesAct of 1933, Section 17(b), The publisher of this newsletter is contracted to receive six hundred thousand free trading shares from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias. The party that paid us has a position in the ST0CK they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the ST0CK, causing you to lose money. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings, Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within this email constitutes your acceptance of these terms. From xnjzrrzkmcwclt@superflippy.net Wed Aug 24 11:17:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E7x0D-0001wd-6t; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:17:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27783; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.129.115.221] (helo=86ISP-C92E04075) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7x0V-0003tk-8q; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:17:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 607 invoked from network); Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:12:07 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO there) (127.0.0.1) by ceres.minihub.org with SMTP; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:11:07 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; Message-Id: <5.9.2.7.2.2005039.00b0a00@designs.com> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:13:07 -0700 From: "Mohammed Ervin" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Meds Refill User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Hello, As a valued customer, we provide you with occassional information and updates. Our records indicate that you may be in need of a refill. We hope that you will once again, give us the opportunity to offer you a great selection of meds, low prices, and superior customer care. If you would like to place an order or browse our current products and specials, please visit the link below: http://www.mobnight.info/?2f7927816afSa62eS39f55da6f20a66a Yours Truly, Mohammed Ervin Customer Care Specialist allis ldc shudder pfr degumming xt hopkins tr sizzle cal velours eey hookup xun appendix lw prowess yzy tva hn bathroom fa detent vw http://www.mobnight.info/fgh.php From jsbiygxdx@yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 19:58:32 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E858a-0000qx-NY; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:58:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA04262; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E858z-0006IX-9u; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:58:58 -0400 Received: from [211.23.126.69] (helo=COMPUTER001) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E858Y-0008Cx-Mo; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:58:31 -0400 Received: from .anu..au ([126.22.202.156] helo=anu..au) by smtp8..co with esmtp id 1A5Ys6-282190-90 Message-ID: Sender: freeradius-devel-jsbiygxdx@yahoo.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:49:47 +0200 From: "Michelle Pugh" To: disman-admin@ietf.org Subject: Vi-ggra is Lousy CE X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://grudgingly.net/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://grudgingly.net/rm.php?ronn hDyhJ From jos@onemail.ru Thu Aug 25 04:44:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8DLy-0001Vx-FO for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:44:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA07436 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from onemail.ru ([194.135.30.136]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E8DMS-0003ea-Ed for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:45:25 -0400 Received: from onemail ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.onemail.ru) by onemail.ru with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1E8DS7-0000tR-J9; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:51:15 +0400 Received: from 80.231.4.10 (proxying for 10.169.0.89, 83.170.12.14) (SquirrelMail authenticated user jos@onemail.ru) by mail.onemail.ru with HTTP; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:51:15 +0400 (MSD) Message-ID: <3425.80.231.4.10.1124959875.squirrel@mail.onemail.ru> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:51:15 +0400 (MSD) Subject: GOODDAY From: "Joseph Made" Reply-To: made3@fsmail.net User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    Greetings from the beautiful land of Zimbabwe.

    I am Joseph Made of Lands, Agriculture, & Rural Resettlement ministry of Zimbabwe.

    As a member of cabinet and former stuanch supporter of President Mugabe's government I was opportuned to be in the know as to what led to the struggle for farm lands and subsequent fall out of my government with the Western world. As of today I would be more than glad if the case of what happened can be reversed as I have come to see that it was all in pursuit of the selfish interest of one man, the president!

    After all said and done, it has become obvious that my president like any other African leaders needed to make sure that he remains in power to not just consolidate his fortunes but also to make sure that he bleeds the country to death by siphoning the money meant for developmental infrastrure abroad. Of course with the help of some foreigners who do not see anythng wrong in helping him steal the country blind.

    I may very well be sounding like a disgruntled and dis-appointed person but the truth is that he has shifted his gaze from the foreigners to his own very people. He sees any suggestions or opinions that does not agree with his own has been that of a sabortuer and the person therefore must be purnished. In other words, we the followers have come to realise that he feels threatened by not just our presence but coupled with the fact that most of us are privy to what transpired and are very much aware of the movement of large sums of money abroad.

    As it stands now I and many others are of the strong opinion that sooner or later it will be our turn to be flushed out of the composition of members of cabinet and replaced with loyals who obviously have sworn to an oath of allegiance and loyalty via fetish and ritualistic methods. This being the norm does not appeal to some of us and therefore we are now targets to be dismissed/disgraced from service or face possible extermination.

    I have contacted you on the consideration that I can discuss with you the possibility of placing some funds with you for management purpose either in your existing establishment or other venture to be undertaken after due delibrations and under terms to be agreed upon. I will prefers that this investment be made in your country if and when we have arrived at a compromise.

    I sincerely appologise for writing you via this means even without prior established acquaintance. But I do beleive that as we get along you will come to understand the reason for my writing through this means.

    I thank you for taking time to read my letter and hope that you will respond soon with any inquiries that may help you decide on your next line of action.

    Regards

    Joseph Made.

    P.S. please reply to this email address: made3@fsmail.net

    From Elmira@donahoe.com Thu Aug 25 07:35:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8G0k-0000mK-F8 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:35:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13083 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kvalitet-avia.rmt.ru ([81.13.80.238]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E8G1C-0008RE-N0 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:35:41 -0400 X-AntiVirus: Checked by Dr.Web [version: 4.31a, engine: 4.31b, virus records: 62840, updated: 19.12.2004] Received: from [147.77.75.53] (port=9559 helo=[fondled]) by kvalitet-avia.rmt.ru with esmtp id 110505116673justly35494 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:34:44 +0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <3296187341.115451108649@kvalitet-avia.rmt.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: "Christie" Subject: Small-Cap Action Report Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:34:43 +0400 X-Mailer: forty X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b132cb3ed2d4be2017585bf6859e1ede Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ***MOMENTUM ALERT ISSUED*** FOR THURSDAY AUG 25th*** WORLDWIDE BIOTECH & PHARMACEUTICAL CO MAKES MAJOR MOVE!!!! We Told two weeks ago at $2.00 and now its $5.95 and we think it goes to $12.00 on expected. Symbol: WWBP Price: $5.95 10 Day Target: $12-17 We gave you CHMS at .38 and saw it go to .73. (WINNER) We gave you MBAP at .001 and saw it go up 500% in 1 week. (WINNER) We gave you WWBP at $2.00 and now it's $5.95 and the momentum or news has not been released yet. $ GET IN NOW!!! You know the old saying, buy the rumor and sell on the news. Once the news is out it is time to get ready for next rally...JUST DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND WATCH WWBP again THURSDAY MORNING, and DON'T SAY WE DIDN'T TELL YOU.. You may not be aware of (WWBP), but you should be, because this company represents a terrific profit opportunity for early investors> Worldwide Biotech and Pharmaceutical Company, a biotech company, engages in the development, manufacture, and marketing of diagnostic reagents. These diagnostic reagents include hepatitis C viruses, medicines, vaccines, and gene carriers. The company is based in Sarasota, Florida. It is only a matter of time before it is released out into the investment community and they take it to the moon.. We at Investors Alert say jump on this early WE SEE BIG THINGS HAPPENING EVERYDAY, SO WE SAY KEEP YOUR EYE ON WWBP WEDNESDAY AND WATCH FOR A BIG MOVEMENT AGAIN !!!!!! WE SAY BUY LOW and TRADE HIGH !!!!!!!! Did you watch these? November GDVI at 0.04 High 0.29...625% Gain! December HTSC at 0.70 High 2.95...329% Gain! March/April DMTY at 0.30 High 0.90...300% Gain! April IPYS at 0.38 High 1.10...189% Gain in two days October SGYS ----125% at the high one day August CHMS .36....Now .74 Disclaimer: Information within this email contains "forwardlooking statements" within the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward looking statements". "Forward looking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates", "estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and business consumption habits and other factors overwhich the company has little or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the information contained in this message states all material facts or does not omit a material fact necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, ST0CKs, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. The publisher of this newsletter advises all readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in ST0CKs featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. Many of these companies are on the verge of bankruptcy. You can lose all your money by investing in this ST0CK. We urge you to read the company's SEC filings now, before you invest. The publisher of this newsletter is not a registered invstment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. In compliance with the SecuritiesAct of 1933, Section 17(b), The publisher of this newsletter is contracted to receive six hundred thousand free trading shares from a third party, not an officer, director or affiliate shareholder for the circulation of this report. Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting from such compensation due to the fact that this is a paid advertisement and is not without bias. The party that paid us has a position in the ST0CK they will sell at anytime without notice. This could have a negative impact on the price of the ST0CK, causing you to lose money. All factual information in this report was gathered from public sources, including but not limited to SEC filings, Company Websites and Company Press Releases. The publisher of this newsletter believes this information to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within this email constitutes your acceptance of these terms. From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 07:39:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8G4b-000109-Vz for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:39:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13136 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8695920524; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38D7204F5; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:39:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA1A204F5 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8AF2039D for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B385A89852; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:38:04 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430DADA7.6010100@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1745@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905AB1745@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:38:15 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: >[Joe] Neither mechanism is ideal, as the both require changes to the >system. > Yes. At least for me, personally, the severity of the impacts to the "system" are the key decision factor on which type of channel bindings to use. While both require changes, we probably have different ideas in the group regarding what changes are more acceptable than others... personally I'd like to avoid NAS/AP changes for deployment reasons, which speaks in favor of method-based schemes. But YMMV. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 07:41:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8G6Z-0001yl-Fd for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:41:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13218 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD68C20514; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36CF20523; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:41:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B900204F5 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F10D2039D for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B929189852; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:40:13 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430DAE28.4060802@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Channel Binding References: <20050813160002.22315.18749.Mailman@xavier> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:40:24 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: >>Key-derivation based channel binding solution should be >>specified as an extension to EAP keying framework. >> >> > >A question: is this an EAP issue or a AAA and lower layer issue? > >>From an EAP point of view, the EAP method passes down the exported >parameters to the lower layer. > >The lower layer then can compute any required keying material from the >exported parameters and the Channel Bindings. > >The same is true on the AAA server, which operates as an EAP lower layer >on the server side. > >So as far as I can see, no changes are needed to EAP, EAP methods, or the >EAP key management framework in order to support Yoshi's proposal. > >All that is required is a specification for how the AAA client requests >the mixed key and how it is transported. Presumably such a key cannot be >transported in the Diameter EAP-Master-Session-Key attribute or in >the RFC 2548 attributes since it is not an MSK. > >Of course, such a AAA specification would not be useful unless a lower >layer were to exist that would use it, so you'd need a lower layer >specification as well. > >However, as far as I can see, no EAP key management extension is >required here. > > This may well be true. However, I think Yoshi (and others also) are probably thinking of this in terms of overall impacts in specifications and products. Its reasonable to assume that there'd be a document describing such functionality, for instance, plus documents describing the changes necessary to link layers and AAA protocols. You could also argue that EAP key management spec should say something about channel bindings (as it already does), because its in charge of the system level security aspects. But in Paris we seemed to have consensus that we're not taking the key binding approach to the document as _the_ way of doing EAP keying. This implies that whatever we do (methods or extensions to eap/aaa keying) they are optional extensions. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 07:43:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8G8T-0002So-NS for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:43:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13281 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F88E20530; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090A4204F5; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:43:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6121204F5 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C822039D for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A316389852; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:42:31 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430DAEAF.5050304@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba , Nicolas.Williams@sun.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B61394@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905B61394@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:42:39 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: >>OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please correct if I'm >>wrong): >> >>- Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be >>removed (but needs some modification to carry a blob in order >>to avoid the IANA assignment issue.) >> >>- Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be >>specified as an extension to EAP keying framework. >> >> >> > >[Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. > > Hold it. Does this mean that we'll have two (possibly incompatible) ways of doing channel bindings for, say, wireless LAN access? --jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 08:28:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8Gq3-0007ll-Dr for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:28:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15226 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0CDB2039D; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877D120506; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:28:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EEF20506 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC47B2039D for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897B789852 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:27:18 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430DB931.1090704@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] channel binding consensus call Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:27:29 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In IETF-63 we discussed different ways of achieving channel bindings, but we also got requirements from methods authors that a solution is needed so that they can include/reference it in their specifications and analysis. In the SECMECH BoF there were also comments made that the channel binding functionality is essential. In the last couple of weeks there's been a discussion about the pros and cons of the two proposed schemes. Before continuing that discussion, I'd like to take a step back and first make the decision that we'll actually be working on some solution, and some of the key requirements for the solution. This will also confirm the consensus that we had in Paris for not developing such a solution to the keying framework. So here are the questions: 1. Should we take on a WG work item, a specification of a solution/protocol that provides channel bindings? 2. Is this solution something that should go to keying framework, as "the" mechanism to be used by everyone, or is it an independent extension? Result from Paris, at least as far as Yoshi's scheme goes, was "independent extension". 3. Should the solution be unified in some sense across different types of EAP usage or should we pursue multiple approaches? An example of multiple approaches would be leaving it to individual method writes without coordination, different mechanisms for different link layers, or developing both method and aaa-key based mechanisms. Please answer by Wednesday, August 31st. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 10:16:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8IWX-0007XQ-PT for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:16:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19854 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38D22053A; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8D12052D; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:16:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DC22052D for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34EAF20514 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1E8IVm-000Hdq-B4; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:15:22 -0400 Received: by internaut.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8E80560DB1; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internaut.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3DE60DAF; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Channel Binding In-Reply-To: <430DAE28.4060802@piuha.net> Message-ID: References: <20050813160002.22315.18749.Mailman@xavier> <430DAE28.4060802@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) > This may well be true. However, I think Yoshi (and others > also) are probably thinking of this in terms of overall > impacts in specifications and products. Its reasonable > to assume that there'd be a document describing such > functionality, for instance, plus documents describing > the changes necessary to link layers and AAA protocols. Definitely. I'm just saying that Yoshi's extension does not add a completely different EAP/AAA mode of operation in the way that Pre-emptive Keying or Key-Request do. It is just changing the root of the lower layer key hierarchy that is transported between the AAA server and the NAS. The major impact of this in terms of architecture is to introduce a media dependency into the AAA server which now has to compute the key differently depending on which media EAP is running over. However, the proposal does not introduce a media dependency into EAP methods. From an EAP Key Management Framework point of view, the major issue is therefore whether transport of keying material from the AAA server to the NAS is required to be media independent. > You could also argue that EAP key management spec > should say something about channel bindings (as it > already does), because its in charge of the system > level security aspects. But in Paris we seemed to have > consensus that we're not taking the key binding > approach to the document as _the_ way of doing > EAP keying. This implies that whatever we do (methods > or extensions to eap/aaa keying) they are optional > extensions. Perhaps the right way to do this is to describe the effects of different approaches on the architecture. For example, the exiting mechanism requires changes to EAP methods but not to the AAA server; Yoshi's proposal requires changes on the AAA server, but not to methods. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 12:18:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8KR2-0003Bg-Qx for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:18:37 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27227 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157ED2055A; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617462034C; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:18:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E636A20514 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFBE2034C for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1E8KQP-000B5y-HL for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:17:57 -0400 Received: by internaut.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C4B7A60DAF; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internaut.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A8F60DAE for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: <20050825160003.31699.88317.Mailman@xavier> Message-ID: References: <20050825160003.31699.88317.Mailman@xavier> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] Re: Channel binding consensus call Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:17:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) So here are the questions: >1. Should we take on a WG work item, a specification > of a solution/protocol that provides channel bindings? Although interest in Channel Bindings has been increasingly recently, I don't think that we are at the point where we can choose a single solution/protocol. >2. Is this solution something that should go to > keying framework, as "the" mechanism to be > used by everyone, or is it an independent > extension? Result from Paris, at least as far > as Yoshi's scheme goes, was "independent > extension". I think that the keying framework does need to talk about how Channel Bindings fit within the architecture, but I don't think it needs to recommend a particular solution. In my view, Yoshi's scheme does not represent an extension to the EAP Key Management Framework, since it is compatible with the existing document and mainly requires documentation of the lower layer and AAA behavior, not changes to EAP method behavior, or new modes of EAP key management. >3. Should the solution be unified in some sense > across different types of EAP usage or should > we pursue multiple approaches? An example > of multiple approaches would be leaving it > to individual method writes without coordination, > different mechanisms for different link layers, > or developing both method and aaa-key based > mechanisms. I don't think it is required that all EAP methods handle Channel Bindings the exact same way, although some general architecture principles probably need to be established. One of the major architectural principles at stake here is whether AAA servers implementing EAP will remain media independent going forward. Today we do have media independence in AAA, so that implementations of RFC 3579/4072 can be used with PPP, 802.11, IKEv2, etc. Having AAA servers compute different roots of the key hierarchy depending on the media is a fairly major change, so we need to think the implications through. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From arahwls@patriziapepe.it Thu Aug 25 13:23:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8LS2-00083W-6V; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:23:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01152; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E8LSV-00027v-Mg; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:24:14 -0400 Received: from s01060010b5a6f58e.vs.shawcable.net ([24.83.88.195]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E8LRp-0008Rd-Se; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:23:30 -0400 Received: from anumail7.anu.edu.au ([123.203.6.39] helo=anu.edu.au) by smtp1.sepck.nl with esmtp (sugar 3.35 #1 (herkimer)) id 0A8nEM-0002Er-00 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:15:16 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Emanuel Moore" To: mailserv@ietf.org Subject: Summer RX sale Clifton X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Summer sale on V i agra and other drugs. 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Please click below and check out our offer. http://domesday.pllls.com/ph/heh/ dissociable walden cabbage vaccinate dearborn began stepchild debra climactic reef envious condition smokescreen malice countryman lawbreaker alcoholic ditty archive detract attentive burden chuckwalla neural trivial visigoth bundle axolotl ccny expression carson slothful richter durable alia blast leftmost dortmund qualitative brent chicanery netherlands flaw acceptor alway cannel covariant paranoid whichever babcock libelous revoke wingmen buckaroo From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 17:18:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8P6w-0001FM-DK for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:18:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20330 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B7B20565; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286262055E; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:18:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E266F2055E for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outbound.mailhop.org (outbound.mailhop.org [63.208.196.171]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9873020364 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-67-182-139-247.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([67.182.139.247] helo=internaut.com) by outbound.mailhop.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1E8P6Z-0003XM-VA for eap@frascone.com; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:17:48 -0400 Received: by internaut.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E46C960CCF; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by internaut.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D44660A0B for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS.org X-Originating-IP: 67.182.139.247 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.org (see http://www.mailhop.org/outbound/abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: aboba From: Bernard Aboba To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] RFC 4137 on EAP State Machines Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) "State Machines for EAP Peer and Authenticator" RFC 4137 has now been published as an RFC: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg01505.html Congratulations to the authors for their hard work on this document! _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 20:19:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8Rw6-0004Fu-6k for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:19:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02634 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255F920384; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4032820319; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:19:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10DD320319 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC0F202DB for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7Q0I5rr002217; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:05 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j7Q0I5BT027113; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:05 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp1.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.192.124] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id KAA27095 ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:05 +0900 Received: from mx2.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp1.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7Q0I48r024942; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:04 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j7Q0I02o015451; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7Q0I0GS029913; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([172.30.24.135]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0ILS00177ZHUI710@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:18:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E8QKe-0004rE-EE; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:36:24 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Channel Binding In-reply-to: To: Bernard Aboba Cc: Jari Arkko , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050825223624.GK17857@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <20050813160002.22315.18749.Mailman@xavier> <430DAE28.4060802@piuha.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:36:24 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 07:15:21AM -0700, Bernard Aboba wrote: > > Perhaps the right way to do this is to describe the effects of different > approaches on the architecture. For example, the exiting mechanism > requires changes to EAP methods but not to the AAA server; Yoshi's > proposal requires changes on the AAA server, but not to methods. Question: What functionality is part of AAA server here? If EAP server implementation is also part of AAA server, I'd say both mechanism requires some changes on the AAA server. Yoshihiro Ohba > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Aug 25 23:58:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8VM1-0007Fu-Q8 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:58:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11347 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F7120388; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1131FE34; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15D9D1FE34 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E811FC28 for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Aug 2005 20:57:16 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,142,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="656879202:sNHT30682824" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7Q3vCoo017420; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 20:57:13 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BEF0@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWpasucNkIDiyOfTWGDQctfQz99ggAhwSZg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" Cc: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , , X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:02:05 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:43 AM > To: Salowey, Joe > Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba; Nicolas.Williams@sun.com; eap@frascone.com > Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding >=20 > Salowey, Joe wrote: >=20 > >>OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please=20 > correct if I'm > >>wrong): > >> > >>- Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but=20 > >>needs some modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA=20 > >>assignment issue.) > >> > >>- Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be=20 > specified as=20 > >>an extension to EAP keying framework. > >> > >> =20 > >> > > > >[Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. > > =20 > > > Hold it. Does this mean that we'll have two (possibly > incompatible) ways of doing channel bindings for, say,=20 > wireless LAN access? >=20 [Joe] I don't think so. It lower layer that needs to coordinate this, since it will specify what data either needs to go into the method, come out of the method or bind to the keying material. These approaches provide tools for binding additional data to the authentication and/or the key derivation, a lower layer would have to specify how to use them. > --jari >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 00:20:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8VhL-00023X-4J for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:20:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12156 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868771FE34; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE84020384; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:20:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A85520384 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A9E1FE34 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Aug 2005 21:19:29 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7Q4JQoo022919; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:19:26 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding consensus call Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BEF3@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding consensus call Thread-Index: AcWpcVIgnfFRKs4fQpaCMg3dKJZaxgAgSfFQ From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" , X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:24:18 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:27 AM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] channel binding consensus call >=20 >=20 > In IETF-63 we discussed different ways of achieving channel=20 > bindings, but we also got requirements from methods authors=20 > that a solution is needed so that they can include/reference=20 > it in their specifications and analysis. In the SECMECH BoF=20 > there were also comments made that the channel binding=20 > functionality is essential. >=20 > In the last couple of weeks there's been a discussion about=20 > the pros and cons of the two proposed schemes. > Before continuing that discussion, I'd like to take a step=20 > back and first make the decision that we'll actually be=20 > working on some solution, and some of the key requirements=20 > for the solution. This will also confirm the consensus that=20 > we had in Paris for not developing such a solution to the=20 > keying framework. >=20 > So here are the questions: >=20 > 1. Should we take on a WG work item, a specification > of a solution/protocol that provides channel bindings? >=20 [Joe] I don't think there is necessarily a single solution. I think there are three different approaches that have been discussed as "channel bindings" 1. both parties pass data into the EAP method. The data is bound to the authentication exchange so it can't be modified. If the data input by both parties matches then the method succeeds, else the method fails. This approach is similar to "channel bindings" used in the GSS-API. 2. Both parties pass data into the method that is bound to the authentication exchange so it can't be modified and can be output on the other side. Each party takes the exported data from the method and validates it to determine if there is success or failure.=20 3. Both parties input data independent of EAP that gets mixed into the key material that is output from EAP. If the data matches the keys match, if the keys don't match then keys don't match.=20 Type 1 and 2 require support from EAP methods. Type 1 and 3 fail if there is any mismatch in data where type 2 allows for some flexibility. Type 3 requires that you use go through the process of using the derived key material before you discover a problem, whereas type 1 fails in the method. Type 3 probably requires the most AAA work, although they probably could all benefit from it.=20 > 2. Is this solution something that should go to > keying framework, as "the" mechanism to be > used by everyone, or is it an independent > extension? Result from Paris, at least as far > as Yoshi's scheme goes, was "independent > extension". >=20 [Joe] I don't think you can necessarily specify a mechanism that can be used by everyone. For example a mechanism that only modifies the key material does you no good if the consumer of the EAP method is not using the key material.=20 > 3. Should the solution be unified in some sense > across different types of EAP usage or should > we pursue multiple approaches? An example > of multiple approaches would be leaving it > to individual method writes without coordination, > different mechanisms for different link layers, > or developing both method and aaa-key based > mechanisms. >=20 [Joe] My opinion is that we should specify a recommendation for methods to support type 1 above and possibly type 2. Type 3 is largely independent of EAP and needs to be specified in the lower layers and perhaps the AAA protocol (which might be useful for 1 as well). We can describe the approach at a high level and the AAA attributes that would help facilitate it.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 01:30:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8Wn5-0006Py-05 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:30:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA14784 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B161FE34; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3860A20384; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:30:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5350A20384 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09FA1FE34 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED5089852; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:29:20 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430EA8BB.9080107@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yoshihiro Ohba Cc: Bernard Aboba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Channel Binding References: <20050813160002.22315.18749.Mailman@xavier> <430DAE28.4060802@piuha.net> <20050825223624.GK17857@steelhead> In-Reply-To: <20050825223624.GK17857@steelhead> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:29:31 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yoshihiro Ohba wrote: >On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 07:15:21AM -0700, Bernard Aboba wrote: > > >>Perhaps the right way to do this is to describe the effects of different >>approaches on the architecture. For example, the exiting mechanism >>requires changes to EAP methods but not to the AAA server; Yoshi's >>proposal requires changes on the AAA server, but not to methods. >> >> > >Question: What functionality is part of AAA server here? If EAP >server implementation is also part of AAA server, I'd say both >mechanism requires some changes on the AAA server. > > It seems that AAA server (the box, not a layer) is going to be impacted in any case, as is the client. What we can talk about is whether the NAS is impacted or not. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From MarcelleWinter_4194@funboat.com Fri Aug 26 01:58:59 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8XEw-0007bF-T1 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:58:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA15601 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:58:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p5081f97a.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.129.249.122] helo=funboat.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E8XFY-0000tB-4N for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:59:37 -0400 From: "Marcellette Winter" To: "Ahab Murray" Message-ID: <003001c5aa03$358d3e80$9645a8c0@stereography> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Not_Anoth=C8r_Bad_Offr_CIA=CCS_VI=C3GRRA?= Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:58:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01C5A9D9.4CB73680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C5A9D9.4CB73680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That some impostor or madman had sent telegrams from Yalta, there was the holy = of holies of medieval ideology. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C5A9D9.4CB73680-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 02:56:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8Y8G-0006QJ-Qf for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:56:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01287 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78EF620396; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8BE20384; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:56:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CE120384 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB601FE34 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5852789852; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:55:09 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430EBCD8.1000909@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BEF0@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BEF0@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:55:20 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] >>Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:43 AM >>To: Salowey, Joe >>Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba; Nicolas.Williams@sun.com; eap@frascone.com >>Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding >> >>Salowey, Joe wrote: >> >> >> >>>>OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please >>>> >>>> >>correct if I'm >> >> >>>>wrong): >>>> >>>>- Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be removed (but >>>>needs some modification to carry a blob in order to avoid the IANA >>>>assignment issue.) >>>> >>>>- Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be >>>> >>>> >>specified as >> >> >>>>an extension to EAP keying framework. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>[Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Hold it. Does this mean that we'll have two (possibly >>incompatible) ways of doing channel bindings for, say, >>wireless LAN access? >> >> >> >[Joe] I don't think so. It lower layer that needs to coordinate this, >since it will specify what data either needs to go into the method, come >out of the method or bind to the keying material. These approaches >provide tools for binding additional data to the authentication and/or >the key derivation, a lower layer would have to specify how to use them. > > I think I understand what you are saying. But does that mean that what you want is a set of tools that can be used by lower layers, but not a "ready made" solution that would work over existing link layers as-is? Or are you referring to AAA as the lower layer here? Certainly the AAA logic needs to be involved in any of the approaches that we've discussed. But it seems that in order to get an actual working channel binding solution, provide interoperability and maybe even media independence, its necessary to define the whole process, and not just tools. But I could have misunderstood what you meant. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 03:47:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8Yve-0004zV-M8 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03360 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A3E2039A; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2808A20387; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6185220387 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4101B1FE34 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28CB989852; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:46:01 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430EC8C4.903@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Channel binding consensus call References: <20050825160003.31699.88317.Mailman@xavier> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:46:12 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: >>1. Should we take on a WG work item, a specification >> of a solution/protocol that provides channel bindings? >> >> > >Although interest in Channel Bindings has been increasingly recently, >I don't think that we are at the point where we can choose a single >solution/protocol. > > (Clarification: the question I intended to ask was not about whether we can choose the solution now, but rather if the group wants a solution. If the answer is yes, we'll need more work to study the various approaches, then later we can actually pick an approach that we develop to an RFC. Questions 2 and 3 are about what the role of such RFC would have in relation to other possible solutions that might be developed later or elsewhere. And if the answer is no, we can tell the methods writers and others that EAP will not be delivering a solution to them.) >>3. Should the solution be unified in some sense >> across different types of EAP usage or should >> we pursue multiple approaches? An example >> of multiple approaches would be leaving it >> to individual method writes without coordination, >> different mechanisms for different link layers, >> or developing both method and aaa-key based >> mechanisms. >> >> > >I don't think it is required that all EAP methods handle Channel Bindings >the exact same way, although some general architecture principles probably >need to be established. > >One of the major architectural principles at stake here is whether AAA >servers implementing EAP will remain media independent going forward. >Today we do have media independence in AAA, so that implementations of >RFC 3579/4072 can be used with PPP, 802.11, IKEv2, etc. Having AAA >servers compute different roots of the key hierarchy depending on the >media is a fairly major change, so we need to think the implications >through. > > Yes. Similarly for the treatment of media-dependent cb information at AAA, even if it wouldn't impact the actual key. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From botchers@smartmarkvideo.com Fri Aug 26 03:47:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8YwC-00051q-Oy for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03373 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcp0011757405pcs.owngsm01.md.comcast.net ([68.33.181.178]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E8Ywq-0003uc-Sm for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:48:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:47:18 -0400 From: Pat X-Mailer: The Bat! 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GOOD LUCK AND TRADE AT THE TOP From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 03:53:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8Z1T-0006A9-76 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:53:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03514 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2732D20388; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4AB2038A; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:53:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1EE2038A for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C835620388 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 03:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BEC89852; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:52:50 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430ECA5E.7040803@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding consensus call References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BEF3@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BEF3@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:53:02 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: >I think >there are three different approaches that have been discussed as >"channel bindings" > >1. both parties pass data into the EAP method. The data is bound to the >authentication exchange so it can't be modified. If the data input by >both parties matches then the method succeeds, else the method fails. >This approach is similar to "channel bindings" used in the GSS-API. > >2. Both parties pass data into the method that is bound to the >authentication exchange so it can't be modified and can be output on the >other side. Each party takes the exported data from the method and >validates it to determine if there is success or failure. > >3. Both parties input data independent of EAP that gets mixed into the >key material that is output from EAP. If the data matches the keys >match, if the keys don't match then keys don't match. > >Type 1 and 2 require support from EAP methods. Type 1 and 3 fail if >there is any mismatch in data where type 2 allows for some flexibility. >Type 3 requires that you use go through the process of using the derived >key material before you discover a problem, whereas type 1 fails in the >method. Type 3 probably requires the most AAA work, although they >probably could all benefit from it. > > This is a good classification, thanks! --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 04:05:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8ZD6-0001kq-4v for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:05:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03882 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B42D20417; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E63B2038A; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:05:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE102038A for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E87520388 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C968489854 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:04:46 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430ECD2A.50603@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding consensus call References: <430DB931.1090704@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <430DB931.1090704@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:04:58 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Responding to my own questions, personal opinions of course... > 1. Should we take on a WG work item, a specification > of a solution/protocol that provides channel bindings? I believe we have realized that channel binding functionality would be useful. We are also at a stage where there's new protocol work happening (methods) and where EAP and AAA usage is growing, (e.g., due to new VPNs, link layers that are adopting it).This creates a window where we can actually have an effect, so I think we should do it. But as has been noted by others, we haven't finished the discussion of what kind of approach(es) to use. > 2. Is this solution something that should go to > keying framework, as "the" mechanism to be > used by everyone, or is it an independent > extension? Result from Paris, at least as far > as Yoshi's scheme goes, was "independent > extension". The keying framework should say roughly what it already says about this matter, i.e., talk about the security properties and explain the impacts of different approaches. > 3. Should the solution be unified in some sense > across different types of EAP usage or should > we pursue multiple approaches? An example > of multiple approaches would be leaving it > to individual method writes without coordination, > different mechanisms for different link layers, > or developing both method and aaa-key based > mechanisms. I do not believe we need to make one choice for ever, or forbid e.g. specific methods to do what they want. However, for interoperability, media and method independence reasons, I believe we need to choose a single recommended mechanism that is developed in EAP WG (or elsewhere), and bring it to a state where it is fully specified and directly usable in common EAP usage scenarios. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 08:32:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8dNT-0007JO-KF for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:32:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15363 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A412043E; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2B920429; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:32:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6B320429 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.190]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5412041E for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.227.126.202] (helo=mrvnet.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1E8dN0-0002GD-00 for eap@frascone.com; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:31:42 +0200 Received: from [172.23.4.156] (helo=pustefix156.kundenserver.de) by mrvnet.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1E8dN0-0007bO-00 for eap@frascone.com; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:31:42 +0200 Message-Id: <3603519.1125059502754.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> From: t.otto@sharevolution.de To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Binford: 6100 (more power) X-Mailer: Webmail X-Originating-From: 6270027 X-Routing: DE X-Message-Id: <6270027$1125059502753172.23.4.15615398079@pustefix156.kundenserver.de-1373307057> X-Received: from pustefix156.kundenserver.de by 192.35.17.24 with HTTP id 6270027 for [eap@frascone.com]; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:31:42 CEST X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de ident:@172.23.4.156 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] EAP Key Management Framework (FYI) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:31:42 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt, we have +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ---+ | | ^ | EAP Method | | | | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | | | | | | | | | | | EAP Method Key |<->| Long-Term | | | | | Derivation | | Credential | | | | | | | | | | | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Local to | | | | | EAP | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Method | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+ | | | | | TEK | |MSK, EMSK | |IV | | | | | |Derivation | |Derivation | |Derivation | | | | | +-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+-+-+ | | | | | | | | | | ^ | | | V +-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+ ---+ | | | | ^ | Peer-ID, | | | Exported| | Server-ID, | Channel | MSK (64+B) | IV (64B) by | | Method-ID, | Bindings | EMSK (64+B) | EAP | | Key-Lifetime | & Result | | Method | V V V V V Figure 1: EAP Parameter Import/Export The non-public IV is derived from the secret keying material. In NIST SP 800-56 however one find in section 5.8, Key Derivation Functions, that "the output from a KDF shall only be used for secret keying material, such as a symmetric key used for data encryption or message integrity, [...] Non-secret keying material (such as a non-secret initialization vector) shal not be generated using the shared secret". I am not sure, shouldn`t the EAP key management better comply with NIST recommendations? /Thomas _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 08:39:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8dUI-0000hi-8h for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:39:14 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15680 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EBE20429; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A67120439; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:39:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BCC720430 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DF320429 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0167E89852; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:38:13 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <430F0D41.4010909@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: t.otto@sharevolution.de Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] EAP Key Management Framework (FYI) References: <3603519.1125059502754.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> In-Reply-To: <3603519.1125059502754.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:38:25 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit t.otto@sharevolution.de wrote: >The non-public IV is derived from the secret keying material. > >In NIST SP 800-56 however one find in section 5.8, Key Derivation Functions, >that "the output from a KDF shall only be used for secret keying material, >such as a symmetric key used for data encryption or message integrity, [...] >Non-secret keying material (such as a non-secret initialization vector) >shal not be generated using the shared secret". > >I am not sure, shouldn`t the EAP key management better comply with NIST >recommendations? > > It would seem that this would only be a problem if the IV were actually used somewhere in a public manner. Given that the use of the IV is already deprecated, I wonder if we should take this depracation even further and state that this value is reserved and must not be used for any purpose. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 13:21:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8htB-0006ub-3M for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:21:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02482 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E70D20399; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006E220384; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:21:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3F820384 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DC420364 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Aug 2005 10:20:55 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,144,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="656988224:sNHT31621380" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7QHKpoo023206; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:20:52 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] RE: channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8BFC6@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] RE: channel binding Thread-Index: AcWqC8xNnk6Oq4jLQc+7KBjhVlgXHwASesPw From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:25:44 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:55 PM > To: Salowey, Joe > Cc: eap@frascone.com > Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding >=20 > Salowey, Joe wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > > > =20 > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] > >>Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:43 AM > >>To: Salowey, Joe > >>Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba; Nicolas.Williams@sun.com; eap@frascone.com > >>Subject: Re: [eap] RE: channel binding > >> > >>Salowey, Joe wrote: > >> > >> =20 > >> > >>>>OK. I think we are reaching some agreement on (please > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>correct if I'm > >> =20 > >> > >>>>wrong): > >>>> > >>>>- Channel binding mechanism in EAP-IKEv2 should not be=20 > removed (but=20 > >>>>needs some modification to carry a blob in order to avoid=20 > the IANA=20 > >>>>assignment issue.) > >>>> > >>>>- Key-derivation based channel binidng solution should be > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>specified as > >> =20 > >> > >>>>an extension to EAP keying framework. > >>>> > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>>[Joe] Yes, I think this is a good approach. > >>>=20 > >>> > >>> =20 > >>> > >>Hold it. Does this mean that we'll have two (possibly > >>incompatible) ways of doing channel bindings for, say, wireless LAN=20 > >>access? > >> > >> =20 > >> > >[Joe] I don't think so. It lower layer that needs to=20 > coordinate this,=20 > >since it will specify what data either needs to go into the method,=20 > >come out of the method or bind to the keying material. These=20 > >approaches provide tools for binding additional data to the=20 > >authentication and/or the key derivation, a lower layer=20 > would have to specify how to use them. > > =20 > > > I think I understand what you are saying. But does that mean=20 > that what you want is a set of tools that can be used by=20 > lower layers, but not a "ready made" solution that would work=20 > over existing link layers as-is? Or are you referring to AAA=20 > as the lower layer here? Certainly the AAA logic needs to be=20 > involved in any of the approaches that we've discussed. But=20 > it seems that in order to get an actual working channel=20 > binding solution, provide interoperability and maybe even=20 > media independence, its necessary to define the whole=20 > process, and not just tools. >=20 [Joe] The lower layers are going to have to specify what goes into the channel bindings. We can specify the process at a high level. Lower layers typically define AAA attributes to carry lower layer parameters. Interfaces to EAP and/or key derivation would need to be defined accept channel binding data and AAA processing for lower layer services would need to take advantage of this interfaces.=20 I guess you could say we provide a "framework", but the lower layers need to specify what gets used within the framework to make sense for their domains.=20 > But I could have misunderstood what you meant. >=20 [Joe] I'm not sure I really clarified it any.=20 > --Jari >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Aug 26 20:25:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E8oVT-0004Z9-VN for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:25:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02793 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950B41FC28; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216C01FDEA; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:25:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0267E1FDEA for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12F41FC28 for ; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7R0OFrr012105; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:15 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j7R0OFIt016497; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp1.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.192.124] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id KAA16492 ; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:14 +0900 Received: from mx.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp1.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7R0OEAr016562; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j7R0OEd1019100; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by tsb-sgw.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7R0ODGQ012864; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([172.30.24.135]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0ILU009O8UG46L40@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:24:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E8hpV-0005PV-Cf; Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:17:25 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding consensus call In-reply-to: <430DB931.1090704@piuha.net> To: Jari Arkko Cc: eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050826171725.GE20308@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <430DB931.1090704@piuha.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:17:25 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 03:27:29PM +0300, Jari Arkko wrote: > > 1. Should we take on a WG work item, a specification > of a solution/protocol that provides channel bindings? Yes, I think we should take it a WG work item. This is my impression I had while I was participating in the reviewing process of IEEE 802.16e on their EAP usage in last couple of months. Since EAP WG did not have an official channel binding solution at that moment, we could not make a useful recommendation to 802.16e about channel binding. I hope new lower layers can benefit from an official channel binding solution. > > 2. Is this solution something that should go to > keying framework, as "the" mechanism to be > used by everyone, or is it an independent > extension? Result from Paris, at least as far > as Yoshi's scheme goes, was "independent > extension". I'd like to see basic framework solution [like the 3 approaches outlined by Joe] described in the keying framework draft. Actual detailed solution can be defined in separate document. > > 3. Should the solution be unified in some sense > across different types of EAP usage or should > we pursue multiple approaches? An example > of multiple approaches would be leaving it > to individual method writes without coordination, > different mechanisms for different link layers, > or developing both method and aaa-key based > mechanisms. I agree with Bernard that we might not be at the point we can choose a single solution. However, before making a decision to allow multiple solutions, I think we might need more analysis on the impact of allowing multiple solutions. For example, we can argue whether (i) each lower layer specification chooses one of multiple solutions (e.g., lower layer X must use solution 1 and lower layer Y must use solution 2, etc.), or (ii) each lower layer specification allows to use multiple solutions (e.g., some deployment of lower layer X uses solution 1 and another deployment of the same lower layer X uses solution 2, etc.). Yoshihiro Ohba > > Please answer by Wednesday, August 31st. > > --Jari > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Aug 28 01:29:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9FjE-0001oZ-7Z for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:29:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16360 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A0C1FD63; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C476E1FDE9; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:29:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257561FDE9 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE721FD63 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 01:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 803BE89852 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 08:28:44 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43114B97.2030401@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com References: <200508262210.j7QMAth02457@boreas.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <200508262210.j7QMAth02457@boreas.isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] FW: RFC 4072 on Diameter Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) Application Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 08:28:55 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org wrote: >A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 4072 > > Title: Diameter Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) > Application > Author(s): P. Eronen, Ed., T. Hiller, G. Zorn > Status: Standards Track > Date: August 2005 > Mailbox: pasi.eronen@nokia.com, tomhiller@lucent.com, > gwz@cisco.com > Pages: 33 > Characters: 79965 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-ietf-aaa-eap-10.txt > > URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4072.txt > > >The Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) provides a standard >mechanism for support of various authentication methods. This >document defines the Command-Codes and AVPs necessary to carry EAP >packets between a Network Access Server (NAS) and a back-end >authentication server. > >This document is a product of the Authentication, Authorization, and >Accounting Working Group of the IETF. > >This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From xifqfomoy@yahoo.com Sun Aug 28 16:19:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9Td9-0001xJ-BU; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:19:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09735; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a83-132-217-137.cpe.netcabo.pt ([83.132.217.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E9TeF-00060C-4o; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:21:06 -0400 Received: from peternixon.net [252.67.175.231] (helo=.vergenet.net) by smtp5.cistron.nl with esmtp () id 2AQ6iH-8089CR-00; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:16:11 -0600 Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:16:11 -0600 Message-ID: <4337B67C.5239807@.peternixon.net> From: "Cheri Holloway" To: disman-admin@ietf.org Cc: disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org Subject: Doctors Use This Too dbui User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://bucketed.net/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://bucketed.net/rm.php?ronn 7gDBlM From EliasBattle@gameco.co.uk Sun Aug 28 17:08:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9UO9-00005s-Ab for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:08:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11699 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-24-131-183-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([24.131.183.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E9UPG-0007BR-Nk for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:09:40 -0400 Received: from DBG@localhost by 7qL.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Mon, 29 Aug 2005 04:12:55 +0600 Message-ID: From: "Glenna Castro" Reply-To: "Glenna Castro" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: MS Office 2003 Pro $69.95 Systemworks Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:17:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: EliasBattle@gameco.co.uk Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--65974228377815993" X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 3Cq2 ----65974228377815993 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a
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Levitra - 60 Pills - 399$ Xanax - 60 Pills - 199$ Ambien - 60 Pills - 190$ Ultram - 60 PilIs - 85$ Viagra - 150 Pills - 269$ Valium - 180 Pills - 370$ Soma - 80 Pills - 79$ Please click below and check out our offer. http://www.mobnight.info/?49393c50dfea2S02cS3fddf14ae153ec pessimism mc pack abm atmosphere fr depressant bkf beet ieq inveigle hj befog ga doctrine va cobweb mme pyroxenite shs stable bn dicotyledon xz http://www.mobnight.info/rm.php?got From xkvvvwgbmbo@hotmail.com Mon Aug 29 12:54:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9mte-0000H5-5o; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:54:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20593; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 61-59-143-73.adsl.static.seed.net.tw ([61.59.143.73]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E9mux-0005pB-1n; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:55:35 -0400 Received: from .webhost0.alterusa.com id CFB64904DE; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:48:30 +0200 Received: by .webhost7.starnetusa.net (Postfix, from userid 260) id CFB69494DE; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:53:30 +0200 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:52:30 +0300 Message-Id: <27531130090241.CFB4162DE@.starnetusa.net> From: "Wilma Dill" To: disman-admin@ietf.org, disman-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, entmib@ietf.org, entmib-admin@ietf.org, entmib-request@ietf.org, enum@ietf.org, enum-admin@ietf.org Subject: Guys Need This BIMqy8 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://bucketed.net/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://bucketed.net/rm.php?ronn DwXOP From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 29 13:04:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9n3K-0002ZE-37 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:04:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21282 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD2F2046A; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A9320388; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:04:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D934C203E9 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.58]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4408202CA for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j7TH31fD025523 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:03:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Clancy X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] channel binding Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:57:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Channel binding transmits channel parameters between the EAP client and EAP server in some protected way. When done by methods, it seems the general approach is to encrypt it (PSK, TTLS, etc), guaranteeing authenticity. Is there any reason why it a MAC over the blob would be insufficient? Is confidentiality required for some reason? I'm working on defining a protected channel in EAP-PAX for communicating channel binding info, and I'd like to avoid defining a symmetric-key encryption ciphersuite, as PAX is based on MACs. [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 29 13:10:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9n99-0003Pf-5L for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:10:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21478 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DE8F20388; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B198E20451; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:10:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70EE7203E9 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B5220388 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Aug 2005 10:09:39 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7TH9Y0J008308; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:09:34 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C333@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding Thread-Index: AcWsvGz31ySQxSdTTSikxn30r0RSvgAAJZUg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Charles Clancy" , X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:14:31 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think confidentiality is strictly necessary if one is transmitting a MAC of blob of data (type 1). In GSS-API channel bindings explicitly state that the underlying mechanism may not provide confidentiality so applications must take this into consideration when providing channel binding data.=20 If type 2 channel bindings are in use where data must be available on the other side confidentiality is more of a consideration.=20 Joe=20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Clancy [mailto:clancy@cs.umd.edu]=20 > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:58 AM > To: eap@frascone.com > Subject: [eap] channel binding >=20 > Channel binding transmits channel parameters between the EAP=20 > client and EAP server in some protected way. When done by=20 > methods, it seems the general approach is to encrypt it (PSK,=20 > TTLS, etc), guaranteeing authenticity. Is there any reason=20 > why it a MAC over the blob would be insufficient? Is=20 > confidentiality required for some reason? >=20 > I'm working on defining a protected channel in EAP-PAX for=20 > communicating channel binding info, and I'd like to avoid=20 > defining a symmetric-key encryption ciphersuite, as PAX is=20 > based on MACs. >=20 > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[=20 > www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[=20 > university of maryland | college park ] >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 29 13:43:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9nf3-0001Ys-JK for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:43:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23133 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F5A20483; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F70C203E9; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:43:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA403203E9 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC08E20388 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9027789852; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:42:46 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43134921.8060100@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Charles Clancy , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C333@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C333@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:42:57 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: >I don't think confidentiality is strictly necessary if one is >transmitting a MAC of blob of data (type 1). In GSS-API channel >bindings explicitly state that the underlying mechanism may not provide >confidentiality so applications must take this into consideration when >providing channel binding data. > > Yes. >If type 2 channel bindings are in use where data must be available on >the other side confidentiality is more of a consideration. > > This would depend on the type of data being communicated. Type of service, identities of parties would be visible in the EAP exchange. Whether that's a problem depends on many things, including what the lower layer (both aaa and l2) does. Lets say that a future l2 has some kind of a support for hiding some of the identities involved in a network attachment. Now, if it also protects the EAP exchange then it doesn't matter if channel bindings are not encrypted. But if it doesn't protect EAP, then secure information from l2 may leak out via EAP. Also, if we develop channel bindings capability for a parameter set now, we don't know what it will be used later for. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Aug 29 15:02:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9otX-0003fx-Pn for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:02:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28479 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7342E204C1; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACC9204B4; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:02:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5769E204B4 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4751620483 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7TJ0j3P018416; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:00:45 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j7TJ0jG0015823; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:00:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp2.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.166.115] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id EAA15805 ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:00:44 +0900 Received: from mx.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j7TJ0ibs010202; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:00:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j7TJ0h6l007743; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:00:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([133.199.16.203]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0ILZ000LPZH6JW60@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:00:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E9o18-0000sk-Ed; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:05:58 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding In-reply-to: To: Charles Clancy Cc: eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050829180558.GG2604@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:05:58 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 12:57:38PM -0400, Charles Clancy wrote: > Channel binding transmits channel parameters between the EAP client and > EAP server in some protected way. When done by methods, it seems the > general approach is to encrypt it (PSK, TTLS, etc), guaranteeing > authenticity. Is there any reason why it a MAC over the blob would be > insufficient? Is confidentiality required for some reason? This is an interesting issue. I am not sure whether confidentiality is required for channel parameters or not for existing lower layers. But a solution that does not necessarily require exposing channel parameters when exchanged between peer and authenticator is certainly preferable, as I don't think we can determine at this moment whether all lower layers (including existing and future ones) do not require confidentiality. Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob itself, I think we need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of confidential and non-confidential parameters, can't the non-confidential parameters and the MAC becomes a hint to find out the confidential ones? Yoshihiro Ohba > > I'm working on defining a protected channel in EAP-PAX for communicating > channel binding info, and I'd like to avoid defining a symmetric-key > encryption ciphersuite, as PAX is based on MACs. > > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] > [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From condemnatoryclai@atsaircraft.com Mon Aug 29 23:43:40 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E9x2C-0007ci-6t; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:43:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA04165; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E9x3W-0002EP-3N; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:45:10 -0400 Received: from s0106000c6edab171.vf.shawcable.net ([70.68.186.73]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1E9x1r-0002re-BJ; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:43:21 -0400 Received: from Joanna by chaw (Wostfix Joanna) id 76B68C1147699; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 07:37:44 +0300 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:35:44 +0200 From: "Adan Shea" Message-ID: To: l2tpext-admin@ietf.org, iptel-request@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, ipoverib-admin@ietf.org, dccp-request@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, vrrp@ietf.org, dinaras@ietf.org, urn-nid-admin@ietf.org, ieprep@ietf.org, magma-admin@ietf.org, l3vpn-admin@ietf.org, rip@ietf.org Subject: Account Update from Prime Lenders Errors-To: EKBLEFQAldridge@balneariolasgrutas.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at honeymoon.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We tried to contact you last week about refinancing your home at a lower rate.
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    Delete: http://www.go-lowrates.com/r.php From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Aug 30 17:50:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EADzd-0008OF-OG for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:50:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11404 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A241FE41; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9711FE10; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:50:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4641FE10 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9A91FC5F for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2005 14:49:38 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7ULnSQQ021300; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:49:33 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C838@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding Thread-Index: AcWszO8aP/mlWKXWS+2hAaLYPLrj6wAHe+IQ From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , "Charles Clancy" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:54:27 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Yoshihiro Ohba [mailto:yohba@tari.toshiba.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 11:06 AM > To: Charles Clancy > Cc: eap@frascone.com > Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding >=20 > On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 12:57:38PM -0400, Charles Clancy wrote: > > Channel binding transmits channel parameters between the EAP client=20 > > and EAP server in some protected way. When done by=20 > methods, it seems=20 > > the general approach is to encrypt it (PSK, TTLS, etc),=20 > guaranteeing=20 > > authenticity. Is there any reason why it a MAC over the=20 > blob would be=20 > > insufficient? Is confidentiality required for some reason? >=20 > This is an interesting issue. =20 >=20 > I am not sure whether confidentiality is required for channel=20 > parameters or not for existing lower layers. But a solution=20 > that does not necessarily require exposing channel parameters=20 > when exchanged between peer and authenticator is certainly=20 > preferable, as I don't think we can determine at this moment=20 > whether all lower layers (including existing and future ones)=20 > do not require confidentiality. >=20 > Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob itself,=20 > I think we need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of=20 > confidential and non-confidential parameters, can't the=20 > non-confidential parameters and the MAC becomes a hint to=20 > find out the confidential ones? >=20 [Joe] Maybe, I don't think that a MAC necessarily has the properties of a pseudo-random function so some information may leak into the MAC value. I'm not sure how close to a PRF something like HMAC is.=20 > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 > >=20 > > I'm working on defining a protected channel in EAP-PAX for=20 > > communicating channel binding info, and I'd like to avoid=20 > defining a=20 > > symmetric-key encryption ciphersuite, as PAX is based on MACs. > >=20 > > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[=20 > www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [=20 > > computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > eap mailing list > > eap@frascone.com > > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Atbqjrjg@optonline.com Tue Aug 30 22:13:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAI6t-0003ah-3D; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:13:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA24362; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200508310213.WAA24362@ietf.org> Received: from [61.54.75.81] (helo=lh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EAI8U-00053B-Lp; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:15:38 -0400 From: "Bette Carney" To: pana-archive@ietf.org Subject: Fw: [7] Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 03:12:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_ZRFEGMRB.GYSSZSTZ" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_ZRFEGMRB.GYSSZSTZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear HomeOwner, After completing the review we are pleased to offer you the following, Your current mortgage qualifies you for more than a 3% lower rate! -------------------------------------------------------- !! 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    If you prefer to be left out of this amazing offer go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_YRITYEGA.OVGEIZWI-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 10:41:16 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EATm5-0001lz-TE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:41:16 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24799 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6EE420396; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CB12036A; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:41:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D1A2036A for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu [128.8.129.58]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035532034D for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j7VEUgfD012153; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:30:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Clancy X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba , eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C838@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Message-ID: References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C838@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: >> Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob itself, I think we >> need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of confidential and >> non-confidential parameters, can't the non-confidential parameters and >> the MAC becomes a hint to find out the confidential ones? > > [Joe] Maybe, I don't think that a MAC necessarily has the properties of > a pseudo-random function so some information may leak into the MAC > value. I'm not sure how close to a PRF something like HMAC is. Originally, I meant that you would send both the channel binding blob, and also a keyed MAC of the blob. Would sending *just* the MAC also work? I guess both sides would have to know the channel parameters in order to verify them... The fact that the MAC is keyed prevents determination of confidential parameters. From a cryptographic standpoint, a random oracle/PRF isn't needed here, so HMAC or CBC-MAC should be sufficient. [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 10:46:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EATqs-0002uY-3b for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:46:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25007 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E6C20396; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2332036A; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:46:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAC52036A for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE952034D for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3641C89864; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:45:39 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4315C29F.3080000@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Clancy Cc: "Salowey, Joe" , Yoshihiro Ohba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C838@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:45:51 +0300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Clancy wrote: > On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: > >>> Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob itself, I think >>> we need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of confidential and >>> non-confidential parameters, can't the non-confidential parameters >>> and the MAC becomes a hint to find out the confidential ones? >> >> >> [Joe] Maybe, I don't think that a MAC necessarily has the properties >> of a pseudo-random function so some information may leak into the MAC >> value. I'm not sure how close to a PRF something like HMAC is. > > > Originally, I meant that you would send both the channel binding blob, > and also a keyed MAC of the blob. Would sending *just* the MAC also > work? I guess both sides would have to know the channel parameters in > order to verify them... Yes, I think this is the distinction between Joe's class 1 and 2. Class 2 appears easier to deploy and debug, while class 1 may have some security advantages (like avoiding disclosure of private information) and is simpler. > > The fact that the MAC is keyed prevents determination of confidential > parameters. From a cryptographic standpoint, a random oracle/PRF > isn't needed here, so HMAC or CBC-MAC should be sufficient. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 13:02:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAVyW-0008BN-W1 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:02:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00676 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06D720440; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C96203DF; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84FDD203DF for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1BB20376 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2005 10:01:41 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.96,158,1122879600"; d="scan'208"; a="657663954:sNHT33803894" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j7VH1coo018670; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8CA2E@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding Thread-Index: AcWuOWXSbksWi6olTnyZfQGtduVHfgAEwEOQ From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Charles Clancy" Cc: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:06:34 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Clancy [mailto:clancy@cs.umd.edu]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:25 AM > To: Salowey, Joe > Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba; eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding >=20 > On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: >=20 > >> Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob=20 > itself, I think=20 > >> we need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of confidential and=20 > >> non-confidential parameters, can't the non-confidential parameters=20 > >> and the MAC becomes a hint to find out the confidential ones? > > > > [Joe] Maybe, I don't think that a MAC necessarily has the=20 > properties=20 > > of a pseudo-random function so some information may leak=20 > into the MAC=20 > > value. I'm not sure how close to a PRF something like HMAC is. >=20 > Originally, I meant that you would send both the channel=20 > binding blob, and also a keyed MAC of the blob. Would=20 > sending *just* the MAC also work? I guess both sides would=20 > have to know the channel parameters in order to verify them... >=20 [Joe] Depends on how you want the channel bindings to be verified. With type 1 channel bindings the mechanism can make sure the channel bindings match without having to know anything about the data or the lower layer. In this case I think it would be simplest to say the both sides just have to input the same blob on both sides. In this case just sending the MAC would be sufficient. With type 2 bindings you must send the actual data because it is verified outside the mechanism. =20 We could come up with more complex semantics for type 1 bindings where multiple blobs are processed by the mechanism according to some rules that take care of differences in the order of parameters. Here I think you can get away with just sending multiple MACs with one for each blob. I think we should avoid this complexity if possible.=20 > The fact that the MAC is keyed prevents determination of=20 > confidential parameters. From a cryptographic standpoint, a=20 > random oracle/PRF isn't needed here, so HMAC or CBC-MAC=20 > should be sufficient. >=20 [Joe] Thanks.=20 > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[=20 > www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[=20 > university of maryland | college park ] >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 22:35:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAeux-0006Hk-Va for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:35:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03503 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF3720485; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F5E20418; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:35:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EEA20418 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9766D2038B for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j812Yi51012111; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:44 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j812Yi0E026532; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp1.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.192.124] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id MAA26503 ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:43 +0900 Received: from mx2.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp1.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j812YghF003508; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j812U0AC006833; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([133.196.16.101]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0IM400AUY9RJNQ20@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:33:19 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EAdfa-0001z3-M4; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:15:10 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding In-reply-to: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8CA2E@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Charles Clancy , Yoshihiro Ohba , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050901011510.GD7335@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8CA2E@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:15:10 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 10:06:34AM -0700, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Charles Clancy [mailto:clancy@cs.umd.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:25 AM > > To: Salowey, Joe > > Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba; eap@frascone.com > > Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding > > > > On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > > > >> Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob > > itself, I think > > >> we need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of confidential and > > >> non-confidential parameters, can't the non-confidential parameters > > >> and the MAC becomes a hint to find out the confidential ones? > > > > > > [Joe] Maybe, I don't think that a MAC necessarily has the > > properties > > > of a pseudo-random function so some information may leak > > into the MAC > > > value. I'm not sure how close to a PRF something like HMAC is. > > > > Originally, I meant that you would send both the channel > > binding blob, and also a keyed MAC of the blob. Would > > sending *just* the MAC also work? I guess both sides would > > have to know the channel parameters in order to verify them... > > > > [Joe] Depends on how you want the channel bindings to be verified. With > type 1 channel bindings the mechanism can make sure the channel bindings > match without having to know anything about the data or the lower layer. > In this case I think it would be simplest to say the both sides just > have to input the same blob on both sides. In this case just sending > the MAC would be sufficient. With type 2 bindings you must send the > actual data because it is verified outside the mechanism. I don't think we can rely on simple MAC comparison on both sides in type 1 if the authenticator is not fully trusted by the server. In this case, the server would need to validate the MAC sent by the authenticator by comparing with the MAC computed from the *expetected* blob value. This blob validation issue is discussed in section 5 of draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-01. But I like the idea of carrying a MAC of blob instead of a blob itself, as we can avoid RADIUS attribute fragmentation that needs to be considered if a blob itself is carried. Yoshihiro Ohba > > We could come up with more complex semantics for type 1 bindings where > multiple blobs are processed by the mechanism according to some rules > that take care of differences in the order of parameters. Here I think > you can get away with just sending multiple MACs with one for each blob. > I think we should avoid this complexity if possible. > > > The fact that the MAC is keyed prevents determination of > > confidential parameters. From a cryptographic standpoint, a > > random oracle/PRF isn't needed here, so HMAC or CBC-MAC > > should be sufficient. > > > > [Joe] Thanks. > > > > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ > > www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ > > university of maryland | college park ] > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 22:47:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAf6Z-0000f2-M7 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:47:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03857 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFE820485; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7D720418; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:47:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7673E20418 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39AA62038B for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j812km51020423; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:46:48 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j812kmcc018861; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:46:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp2.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.166.115] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id MAA18846 ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:46:48 +0900 Received: from mx2.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j812kl54018455; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:46:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j812khRb002088; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:46:44 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([133.196.16.101]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0IM400B25ADVIR00@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:46:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EAdnV-0001zS-Fk; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:23:21 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding In-reply-to: To: Charles Clancy Cc: "Salowey, Joe" , Yoshihiro Ohba , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050901012321.GE7335@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905C8C838@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:23:21 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 10:25:17AM -0400, Charles Clancy wrote: > On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > >>Regarding carrying a MAC of a blob instead of a blob itself, I think we > >>need more analysis. If a blob is mixture of confidential and > >>non-confidential parameters, can't the non-confidential parameters and > >>the MAC becomes a hint to find out the confidential ones? > > > >[Joe] Maybe, I don't think that a MAC necessarily has the properties of > >a pseudo-random function so some information may leak into the MAC > >value. I'm not sure how close to a PRF something like HMAC is. > > Originally, I meant that you would send both the channel binding blob, and > also a keyed MAC of the blob. Would sending *just* the MAC also work? I > guess both sides would have to know the channel parameters in order to > verify them... > > The fact that the MAC is keyed prevents determination of confidential > parameters. From a cryptographic standpoint, a random oracle/PRF isn't > needed here, so HMAC or CBC-MAC should be sufficient. I have a doubt about applicability of keyed MAC for a blob in three-party key management system. If the keyed MAC is generated by peer and authenticator, and the authenticator sends the MAC to the server (via a AAA protocol), which key is used for MAC computation? Note that AAA-Key is not used in this case because AAA-Key is not yet available at the authenticator before the authenticator sends the MAC to the server, for all possible solutions we have discussed. Yoshihiro Ohba > > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] > [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 23:14:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAfWh-00076P-PM for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:14:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA04793 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA6820470; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1992038B; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:14:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10232038B for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0811FC28 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2005 20:13:34 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j813DOQM025692; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:13:24 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905D3E812@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding Thread-Index: AcWunnZfKfb4dFOFRbGbcH5ehYzQZwAAi+ug From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" Cc: "Charles Clancy" , X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:18:27 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I don't think we can rely on simple MAC comparison on both=20 > sides in type 1 if the authenticator is not fully trusted by=20 > the server. In this case, the server would need to validate=20 > the MAC sent by the authenticator by comparing with the MAC=20 > computed from the *expetected* blob value. =20 [Joe] I'm not sure what you mean, with type 1 bindings the same data is input on both sides and the mechanism verifies this on both sides. The two communicating parties are the EAP-Server and EAP-Peer. A trust relationship between the EAP-Authenticator and EAP-Server is a separate issue, independent of whether you use a blob or actual data.=20 > This blob=20 > validation issue is discussed in section 5 of=20 > draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-01. >=20 [Joe] OK, I'll take a look. > But I like the idea of carrying a MAC of blob instead of a=20 > blob itself, as we can avoid RADIUS attribute fragmentation=20 > that needs to be considered if a blob itself is carried. >=20 [Joe] If you were going to carry just a blob then you would probably carry a hash instead of a MAC, the MAC above is keyed with key material within the EAP method. I'm not sure that carry a hash of parameters in RADIUS is sufficient or necessary. It is probably not sufficient because you may need to validate the contents of the bindings asserted by the authenticator in the AAA hosting the EAP server to avoid the problem you discuss above. It may not be necessary since you need to have information associated with the authenticator on the AAA that is hosting the EAP server to validate the asserted binding by the authenticator. If the information is not variable then you don't have to transmit it. If it is then you probably have to transmit it so it can be verified.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 23:17:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAfZc-0007qi-Ht for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:17:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA04891 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675F61FE41; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4BC1FC24; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:17:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE5E1FC24 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5041FC21 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2005 20:16:17 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j813GC0J006667; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:16:12 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] channel binding Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905D3E813@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] channel binding Thread-Index: AcWuoCpHaRU7T6pgT8yKUgNhn31m5wAAveqg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Yoshihiro Ohba" , "Charles Clancy" Cc: X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:21:10 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I have a doubt about applicability of keyed MAC for a blob in=20 > three-party key management system. If the keyed MAC is=20 > generated by peer and authenticator, and the authenticator=20 > sends the MAC to the server (via a AAA protocol), which key=20 > is used for MAC computation?=20 [Joe] OK I think I see the misunderstanding. The Keyed MAC is transmitted as part of the Method between the EAP-Peer and the EAP-Server. The authenticator is not involved directly.=20 > Note that AAA-Key is not used in this case because AAA-Key is=20 > not yet available at the authenticator before the=20 > authenticator sends the MAC to the server, for all possible=20 > solutions we have discussed. >=20 > Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[=20 > www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [=20 > > computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 23:35:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAfr2-0004a4-Bo for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:35:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA05922 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2F92028D; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2499A1FC24; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:35:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 062571FC24 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9875E1FC21 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j813Xx51020815; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:33:59 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j813XweC016224; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:33:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp2.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.166.115] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id NAA16214 ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:33:58 +0900 Received: from mx.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j813Xwod007250; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:33:58 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j813Xr2L029744; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:33:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([133.196.16.101]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0IM400BWACKHIH00@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:33:53 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EAeE9-00021j-Ap; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:50:53 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding In-reply-to: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905D3E812@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba , Charles Clancy , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050901015053.GI7335@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905D3E812@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:50:53 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 08:18:27PM -0700, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > > But I like the idea of carrying a MAC of blob instead of a > > blob itself, as we can avoid RADIUS attribute fragmentation > > that needs to be considered if a blob itself is carried. > > > [Joe] If you were going to carry just a blob then you would probably > carry a hash instead of a MAC, the MAC above is keyed with key material > within the EAP method. I'm not sure that carry a hash of parameters in > RADIUS is sufficient or necessary. It is probably not sufficient > because you may need to validate the contents of the bindings asserted > by the authenticator in the AAA hosting the EAP server to avoid the > problem you discuss above. It may not be necessary since you need to > have information associated with the authenticator on the AAA that is > hosting the EAP server to validate the asserted binding by the > authenticator. If the information is not variable then you don't have > to transmit it. If it is then you probably have to transmit it so it > can be verified. The draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding-01 draft assumes that a blob carries static information only. Thus it is possible for the AAA server to have the information to validate the blob itself or a hash of the blob. If this is the case, carry a hash of parameters in RADIUS is sufficient. Yoshihiro Ohba > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Aug 31 23:37:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EAfsy-0004pj-4K for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:37:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA05978 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EDD2028D; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5651FC24; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:37:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320C01FC24 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.40]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1167C1FC21 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.160.134]) by inet-tsb.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j813aG51022141; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:36:16 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp id j813aG9X020447; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:36:16 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp1.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.192.124] by tsb-wall.toshiba.co.jp with SMTP id NAA20437 ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:36:15 +0900 Received: from mx.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp1.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id j813aFUu009807; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:36:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from tsbpoa.po.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id j813aEBQ002066; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:36:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from steelhead ([133.196.16.101]) by mail.po.toshiba.co.jp (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 (built Apr 28 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0IM400BVLCOEIQ00@mail.po.toshiba.co.jp>; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 12:36:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from ohba by steelhead with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EAeFZ-00021q-J4; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:52:21 -0700 From: Yoshihiro Ohba Subject: Re: [eap] channel binding In-reply-to: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905D3E813@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Yoshihiro Ohba , Charles Clancy , eap@frascone.com Message-id: <20050901015221.GJ7335@steelhead> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-disposition: inline References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6905D3E813@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.10i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:52:21 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 08:21:10PM -0700, Salowey, Joe wrote: > > I have a doubt about applicability of keyed MAC for a blob in > > three-party key management system. If the keyed MAC is > > generated by peer and authenticator, and the authenticator > > sends the MAC to the server (via a AAA protocol), which key > > is used for MAC computation? > > [Joe] OK I think I see the misunderstanding. The Keyed MAC is > transmitted as part of the Method between the EAP-Peer and the > EAP-Server. The authenticator is not involved directly. OK, then the authenticator would need to send the blob itself to the EAP-server for EAP-method based solution. Yoshihiro Ohba _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap