From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Oct 01 14:40:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELmHp-0002VK-30 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:40:41 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13442 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D18C20662; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD3520627; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:40:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F142061D for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.flarion.com (mail.flarion.com [63.103.94.23]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7958205B3 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftmailserver.flariontech.com ([10.10.1.140]) by mail.flarion.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:59:42 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: question on bellare-rogaway Thread-Index: AcXGCkFWuRpWlrAcQH+S9No6jf6UHA== From: "Vanderveen, Michaela" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2005 21:59:42.0002 (UTC) FILETIME=[42A52920:01C5C60A] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Subject: [eap] question on bellare-rogaway Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, With the occasion of the EAP-PSK review at the last IETF, a question = arose whether the mutual authentication in this method is considered flawed for not = following exactly the classic (formally proven) Bellare-Rogaway protocol, in that one element = is=20 not communicated explicitly over the wire, but only used in the = calculation of the MAC. Not having attended that particular meeting, I am wondering if an = opinion has formed as=20 to whether this practice is acceptable in the cryptographic community.=20 Better yet, does anyone know if there are any formal proofs of modifications of the Bellare-Rogaway protocol that use the nonces in = computations of MACs but do not send them explicitly. This question would be important for authentication protocols designed = to run over bandwidth-limited links. Thanks, Michaela Michaela Vanderveen, Ph.D. Advanced Networking Flarion Technologies, Inc. email: mcv@flarion.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by others is = strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the = sender and delete all copies. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Oct 01 14:40:55 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELmI2-0002jR-VR for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:40:55 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13457 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3EB205B3; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BDF20637; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from localhost (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35A2205B3 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.flarion.com (mail.flarion.com [63.103.94.23]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4430E2060F for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftmailserver.flariontech.com ([10.10.1.140]) by mail.flarion.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:49:42 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: I-D ACTION: draft-vanderveen-eap-make-00.txt Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: I-D ACTION: draft-vanderveen-eap-make-00.txt Thread-Index: AcXAXO62uHZYiFOgSz2L4kMCN2Bu4gFq4eEQ From: "Vanderveen, Michaela" To: "Jari Arkko" Cc: "Soliman, Hesham" , "Bernard Aboba" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2005 21:49:42.0654 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD67E9E0:01C5C608] X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:49:42 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12 (frascone.com) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello We have decided to keep the title of the draft the same with the=20 exception that the abbreviation is now EAP-MAKE2, where "2" stands for version 2. Version 1 does not refer to draft-berrendo, needless to say. Thanks, Michaela -----Original Message----- From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:37 AM To: Vanderveen, Michaela Cc: Soliman, Hesham; Bernard Aboba; eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: I-D ACTION: draft-vanderveen-eap-make-00.txt Yes, please change the name. Maybe "Flarion MAKE", or something along those lines. Vanderveen, Michaela wrote: >The description in the iana website is >27 Mutual Authentication w/Key Exchange (MAKE)=20 > >and so it is different from > > Mutual Authentication and Key Establishment (MAKE) > >In any case, numbers are not prevented from being a part of a=20 >method name, and so MAKE2 is a possibility? > >Thanks, >Michaela > >-----Original Message----- >From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com]On Behalf = Of >Soliman, Hesham >Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:03 PM >To: Jari Arkko; Bernard Aboba >Cc: eap@frascone.com >Subject: RE: [eap] Re: I-D ACTION: draft-vanderveen-eap-make-00.txt > > > > > > > >The Block Allocation option is only available if=20 > > >draft-vanderveen-eap-make-00 is in fact a specification for=20 > > the EAP MAKE=20 > > >protocol that was allocated EAP Type 27 by IANA.=20 > > > > > >Otherwise, you will need to change the name.=20 > > > =20 > > > > > And the third possibility is that if Type 27 =3D=3D draft-vanderveen > > then it may be that you are describing the deployed version, > > in which case you already have allocation and the usual Individual > > RFC submission rules apply, i.e., no EAP WG Expert Review. > >=3D> Well, you mean the old one gets deprecated and replaced with >draft-vanderveen ? The old one was submitted by someone else >and is not the same method AFAIK. > > > Though of course we'd be happy to run one for you. > >=3D> That would be good.=20 > >thx, >Hesham > > >=20 > > --Jari > >=20 > >=20 > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use > of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by others is = strictly > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the = sender > and delete all copies. >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >_______________________________________________ >eap mailing list >eap@frascone.com >http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >_______________________________________________ >eap mailing list >eap@frascone.com >http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > > > =20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by others is = strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the = sender and delete all copies. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From plant@zonai.net Sat Oct 01 16:53:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELoMd-0000y2-WE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:53:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18670 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [200.158.122.148] (helo=200-158-122-148.speedyterra.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ELoUi-0007uK-Tr for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:02:10 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO animosity) (192.168.34.216) by 200-158-122-148.speedyterra.com.br with SMTP; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 18:53:31 -0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <62168112093.7034448156@200-158-122-148.speedyterra.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Zane Subject: Today News. The Below the Radar Equity X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allixon International Has Been Granted Venture Certification by Korean Government Small and Medium Business Administration Friday September 30, 4:01 pm ET Symbol: AXCP Price: $3.92 Status: Strong Buy Rating: 5(5) Short Term Target: $7 12month Target: $15 *****Breaking News*****Breaking News*****Breaking News***** SEOCHO-KU, SEOUL, Korea, Sept. 30, 2005 (PRIMEZONE) - Allixon International Corporation (Other OTC:AXCP.PK - News) is pleased to announce that it was granted venture certification by SMBA (Small and Medium Business Administration). The South Korean government, on an annual basis, grants special benefits to companies like Allixon International who continue to demonstrate innovation and investment within their field of expertise. Additional benefits include the ability for Allixon to apply for new technology development programs within the Korean government. Allixon's management was quick to point out that while this development is a continued positive step in the right direction for growth in their RFID sector, it does not represent a contract. Other benefits that can have an impact on a company's bottom line is the reduction in various corporate taxes for a specified period of time, and preferential interest and loans for equipment and management from government monetary facilities. Mr. Lee, CEO of Allixon International Corporation, said "The Small and Medium Business Administration approved Allixon International as a venture company based on Allixon International's commitment to RFID technology and their continued investment for research and development in RFID applications since 2003." THIS NEWS RELEASE DOES NOT CONSTITUTE ANY OFFER OF ANY SECURITIES FOR SALE. Today we are issuing another ALERT on AXCP. But we think the fun is just beginning with this stock. It has been showing a steady move up on increasing volume. It appears to us that the stock is in an accumulation phase and might be ready for a big pop to new highs. *******PUT AXCP ON YOUR RADAR FOR Monday October 3, 2005********** From Corydoras@zombisquad.com Sun Oct 02 16:41:03 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMAdr-0007Dt-Ij for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:41:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA02032 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 16:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 16:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [61.69.135.3] (helo=ppp1781.for.dialup.dodo.com.au) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMAm8-00029M-JP for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:49:40 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO midrange) (192.168.106.156) by ppp1781.for.dialup.dodo.com.au with SMTP; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 06:40:24 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <11792569732.656394975@ppp1781.for.dialup.dodo.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Solomon Subject: Are You a Penny-stock Player? X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OUR OCTOBER HOT PICK IS: CWTD. SYMBOL: CWTD CURRENT PRICE: $2.07 5 Day Target: $5 WE GIVE IT TO YOU AS A GIFT AND THIS IS WHY !!! *************PRESS RELEASE*****************PRESS RELEASE************* China World Trade Corporation Attends The World Trade Centers Association's 36th General Assembly in Shanghai TIANHE, GUANGZHOU, China, /Xinhua-PRNewswire/ - China World Trade Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: CWTD - News), today announced its attendance at The World Trade Centers Association's 36th General Assembly. The event was held in Shanghai on September 20-23 2005, and was attended by hundreds of international business leaders, entrepreneurs and World Trade Center members. Mr. William Tsang, Chairman and President of China World Trade Corporation (CWTC), Mr. John Hui, CEO and Vice Chairman of CWTC and Mr. Chaoming Luo, Director of CWTC attended the event and had an opportunity to meet with the Mayor and Vice Mayor of Shanghai, local and international entrepreneurs, and other WTC representatives and to discuss improving the services and programs within the World Trade Center organizations. "There has been an enormous influx of foreign entrepreneurs conducting business in China. We feel the business model of CWTC serves as a bridge for foreign businesses and the Chinese market," said Mr. William Tsang, President and Chairman of CWTC. ''Our strategic growth plan will position CWTC as the leading international platform to help foreign and Chinese enterprises establish and grow their business initiatives in China." Shanghai, China's largest economic center is at the forefront of the country's growth and boasts a vast pool of dynamic human resources. Companies from all corners of the world can optimize their strengths and pursue their ambitions in Shanghai. ************************************************************************** We want to congratulate all of our members who read our Trading Alert on AXCP. Did their due diligence and then acted and are now up over 300%. Today we are issuing another ALERT on CWTD. But we think the fun is just beginning with this stock. It has been showing a steady move up on increasing volume.. 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Oct 03 10:12:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMR30-000082-8t for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:12:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01374 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1878320352; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:12:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from flyer.cs.umd.edu (flyer.cs.umd.edu [128.8.128.178]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEFFC20328 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by flyer.cs.umd.edu (8.12.11/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j93EBamt028001; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:11:36 -0400 From: "T. Charles Clancy" X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: "Vanderveen, Michaela" Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] question on bellare-rogaway In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:11:16 -0400 (EDT) In my experience, omissions such as this do not lead to any real attacks. They only affect one's ability to formally prove the correctness of a protocol. Just because something's harder to prove doesn't make it any less secure in terms of practical attacks. [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Vanderveen, Michaela wrote: > > Hello, > > With the occasion of the EAP-PSK review at the last IETF, a question arose whether the > mutual authentication in this method is considered flawed for not following exactly the > classic (formally proven) Bellare-Rogaway protocol, in that one element is > not communicated explicitly over the wire, but only used in the calculation of the MAC. > > Not having attended that particular meeting, I am wondering if an opinion has formed as > to whether this practice is acceptable in the cryptographic community. > Better yet, does anyone know if there are any formal proofs of > modifications of the Bellare-Rogaway protocol that use the nonces in computations of > MACs but do not send them explicitly. > > This question would be important for authentication protocols designed to run > over bandwidth-limited links. > Thanks, > > Michaela > > > > > > Michaela Vanderveen, Ph.D. > Advanced Networking > Flarion Technologies, Inc. > email: mcv@flarion.com > > > =========================================================== > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use > of the intended recipient. 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If you prefer to be left out of this superfluous offer go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_DCLPSJRI.VQBWMMFA-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 05 23:46:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENMhp-0005Fx-9I for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:46:05 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA20402 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5849F2041F; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:46:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com (ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.107]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CDD6203FD for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25553 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 03:45:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO CPQ-SEMPRON.mitton.com) (david@mitton.com@66.30.125.93) by ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 03:45:13 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051005232415.042c1ad0@mail.comcast.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 To: eap@frascone.com From: David Mitton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [eap] Use of EMSK? Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:39:38 -0400 In reviewing the design of a session resumption feature or re-authentication, it seems tempting to use the EMSK as keying material, as it often not exposed to the network. I went looking to see if anyone else has done this, but only found RFC 3748 saying it's reserved for future definition. Back at IETF 58, we got a short presentation on draft-salowey-eap-key-deriv-02.txt by J. Salowey, P. Eronen. But I cannot figure out what became of this issue. 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 06 10:34:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENWow-0004p1-Du for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:34:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07570 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2012420462; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:34:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF3A203FD for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9AD89871; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:33:49 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <434535D8.9060008@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Mitton Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Use of EMSK? References: <6.2.3.4.2.20051005232415.042c1ad0@mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051005232415.042c1ad0@mail.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:34:00 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave, The history is that EMSK usage rules were incorporated in the EAP Keying Framework draft, a WG item. However, since we are having problems completing this work, decided in IETF-62 to split the draft in two. The other part, extensions, now contains the rules: http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-aboba-eap-keying-extns-00.txt Anyway, the use EMSK should be possible, if you have provided sufficient explanation of the specific use to convince that the security is well thought out. In terms of dependencies, we think that this requires the above document to complete. But if there's demand, perhaps we could move the EMSK/AMSK "IANA" rules to the keying framework (but we would not define your or anyone else's usage for you; you'd have to do that by yourself). --Jari David Mitton wrote: > > In reviewing the design of a session resumption feature or > re-authentication, it seems tempting to use the EMSK as keying > material, as it often not exposed to the network. > > I went looking to see if anyone else has done this, but only found RFC > 3748 saying it's reserved for future definition. Back at IETF 58, we > got a short presentation on draft-salowey-eap-key-deriv-02.txt > by J. Salowey, P. Eronen. But I cannot figure out what became of this > issue. > > Dave. > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 06 11:17:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENXUZ-0000WZ-A1 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:17:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09860 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E3D20488; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:17:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F2320462 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7772D89871; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:16:48 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43453FEB.7030701@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: david@mitton.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Use of EMSK? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:16:59 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernard Aboba wrote: >> From the point of view of the EAP Keying Framework, the AMSK is >> calculated > > in the lower layer. > > Therefore the issue is not how to calculate the AMSK, but how the NAS > communicates that it wants/needs an AMSK, how legacy and upgraded AAA > servers respond to that request, and what the structure of the AMSK > cache is on the EAP peer, authenticator and AAA server. > > As far as I know, there is no document that answers these questions. Right. Dave's proposal to use EMSK for purpose X would have to cover these issues. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From info@mail.bhgtd.com Thu Oct 06 11:31:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENXin-0004t6-Kg for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:31:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10582 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [58.180.196.56] (helo=mail.bhgtd.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENXrt-0004qF-Ob for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:41:14 -0400 Received: (qmail 388 invoked by uid 511); 5 Oct 2005 23:56:17 +0900 Date: 5 Oct 2005 23:56:17 +0900 Message-ID: <20051005145617.387.qmail@mail.bhgtd.com> From: info@bhgtd.com To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: $B:FEY$N3NG'%Z!<%8(B X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 $B>!R2p$7$?$$$N$G!"$4M}2r$rD:$-$?$/;W$$$^$9!#(B ------------------------------------------------------------ $BEv%5%$%H$O??7u$J=P2q6u4V$r1?1D$7$*$+$2$5$^$G9%I>$rF@$F$*$j$^(B $B$9!#%O!<%H$b%\%G%#!<$b%*!<%W%sE*$J=w@-$r9-9p;oEy$NJg=8$r$+$1!"(B $BLs#1#0#0#0L>$N=w@-2q0w$,=8$^$j$^$7$?$N$G!"CK@-2q0wITB-$N0Y!"(B $B5.J}$r4^$a$F#8#0#0L>$NFCA*CK@-$KFCJL4k2h$r>R2pCW$7$^$9!#(B $B!c4k2h>\:Y!d!!(Bhttp://www.livedear4.com?num=1151 $B!;%j%"%k%?%$%`>R2p(B $B=P2q$($k$^$G$N;~4V$rC;=L$9$k0Y!"Ev%5%$%H$O"!FCJLL5NA>R2p5!G=(B $B"!$rMxMQ$7$F$*$j!""(%j%"%k%?%$%`$G$d$jR(B $B2p$7$F$$$/$H$$$&5!G=$G$9!#!V%a!<%k$7$F$bJV;v$OJV$C$F$-$^$;$s(B $B!D!W$H$+$N?4G[$O0l@Z$"$j$^$;$s!#$3$N5!G=$K$h$j!":GC;?tJ,$G5$(B $B$KF~$C$?=w@-$H=P2q$($^$9!#(B $B!{D>%"%I!u$5$l$?%1!<%9$,Hs>o(B $B$K5^A}$7$F$*$j!"Ev%5%$%H$O5.J}$r;XL>$7$?=w@-2q0w$N%a%C%;!<%8(B $B$@$1$G$O$J$/!"D>%"%I$H!"-d3NG'(B $B$ND>8e$K(B12,000$B1_J,$NL5NA%]%$%s%H$b40A4L5NA$GLc$($^$9!#$4<+M3(B $B$K$4MxMQ2<$5$$!#(B $B!z$3$N4k2hF($7$?$iL^BNL5$$!*@h$K%d%C$?$b$N>!$A!*!z(B http://www.livedear4.com?num=1151 ($BFCA*CK@-@lMQ(B) $B"(LBOG$@$C$?$i"*(B $B!!(BPlease inform the following address if this mail is unnecessary. $B!!(Bcancel@livedear.com From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 06 11:59:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENY9E-00046O-UB for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:59:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11849 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:59:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4783020489; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:59:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr (smtp2.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.45]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26C520462 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipv6-3.int-evry.fr (ipv6-3.int-evry.fr [157.159.100.76]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C4E80BC; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:58:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jb by ipv6-3.int-evry.fr with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ENY6j-0001tI-AJ; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:56:33 +0200 From: Julien Bournelle To: Jari Arkko Cc: Bernard Aboba , david@mitton.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Use of EMSK? Message-ID: <20051006155633.GF6940@ipv6-3.int-evry.fr> References: <43453FEB.7030701@piuha.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43453FEB.7030701@piuha.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: jb@int-evry.fr Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:56:33 +0200 Hi all, I have a quick comment below: On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 06:16:59PM +0300, Jari Arkko wrote: > Bernard Aboba wrote: > > >>From the point of view of the EAP Keying Framework, the AMSK is > >>calculated > > > >in the lower layer. > > > >Therefore the issue is not how to calculate the AMSK, but how the NAS > >communicates that it wants/needs an AMSK, how legacy and upgraded AAA > >servers respond to that request, and what the structure of the AMSK > >cache is on the EAP peer, authenticator and AAA server. basically we had a use of AMSK for mip6 where the NAS(EAP authenticator) is not required to ask for the AMSK. Only the EAP client (MN) and AAA server (on which the EAP server is supposed to be colocated) needs to know that they should derive the AMSK. (This mip6-amsk is then provided to the HA.) As the i-d has expired, the draft can be found here: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-giaretta-mip6-amsk-00.txt Maybe we're doing something wrong so any comments welcome. > > > >As far as I know, there is no document that answers these questions. > > Right. Dave's proposal to use EMSK for purpose X would have to > cover these issues. > > --Jari > > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap -- julien.bournelle at int-evry.fr _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From info@mail.ocya-do-zo.net Thu Oct 06 12:43:39 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENYqI-0000fk-JG for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:43:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14331 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [222.171.42.25] (helo=mail.ocya-do-zo.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENYzO-0007tC-1z for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:53:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 18245 invoked by uid 509); 3 Oct 2005 12:56:17 -0400 Date: 3 Oct 2005 12:56:17 -0400 Message-ID: <20051003165617.18244.qmail@mail.ocya-do-zo.net> From: info@ocya-do-zo.net To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: $BEA8@M-$j$^$7$?!#(B X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f $B!!5.J}$N08@h$K2q0w(B($B=w@-(B)$B$+$i$N$4;XL>$,M-$C$?$3$H$N$*CN$i(B $B$;$G$9!#8D?M>pJs$r8+$FO"Mm$7$FM_$7$$$H$N;v$G$9!#(B $B"(2<5->pJs$O2q0w(B($B=w@-(B)$B$N0MMj$GE:IU$5$l$?J*$G$9$N$G!"Ev%5%$%H(B $B$N%9%?%C%U$Ol9g!"IaDL$N(B $B!!CK@-$H$a$0$j9g$&5!2q$,A4$/L5$/!"CN?M$N>R2p$G$3$A$i$K(B $B!!$*@$OC$K$J$k;v$K$7$^$7$?!#(B $B!!!!Nx?M$H$7$FIU$-9g$&M>NO$,$"$s$^$j$J$$$s$G!"3d@Z$C$F(B $B!!$*IU$-9g$$$G$-$k$J$i!"$*=;$^$$$N>l=j$^$G9T$C$F$b$$$$(B $B!!$+$J$!!A$C$H;W$$$^$9!#46>> http://www.jumpb2.net/?i love $B!!(B $B!z$5$i$K!"EEOCHV9f3NG'$5$l$?3'MM$KO3$l$J$/!o(B8.000$B1_J,$NL5NA%]%$%s%H$r%W%l%<%s%H$$$?$7$^$9!z!!!!!!(B $B5qH]%"%I(B (Refusal Adress) iranai@jumpb2.net $B!!(B From sequels@niehaus.com Thu Oct 06 13:36:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENZfg-0007Gt-C3 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:36:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17092 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENZok-0001l2-HB for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:46:10 -0400 Received: from [200.207.42.155] (helo=200-207-42-155.dglnet.com.br) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ENZfW-0006dC-TM for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:36:35 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO prospect) (192.168.150.165) by 200-207-42-155.dglnet.com.br with SMTP; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:40:11 -0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <12497542213.1361584079@200-207-42-155.dglnet.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Austin Mcgee Subject: Do not have money , get software cds from here! 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 06 23:37:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENj2g-0005Yj-5g for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:37:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA05858 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08CF2027C; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:37:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771011FE0B for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Oct 2005 20:36:59 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,184,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="349189979:sNHT24953900" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j973au4u012269; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE690605607B@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Thread-Index: AcW+30XOanLL+7AAQxSAVocqXlZrFAMC0S3g From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Bernard Aboba" , Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:42:15 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard, I think in general this looks pretty good. I have some comments and questions: Section 2.3 - In paragraph 4 it states=20 "In either case, it can be assumed that the parties do not utilize the link to exchange data traffic unless their authentication requirements have been met."=20 Is there a reason why it is useful to assume this? I'm not sure that it needs to be true (although I agree that it often is). - in paragraph 6=20 It should also state that successful EAP authentication and key derivation does not necessarily mean that the peer will be granted access. There is typically authorization and resource allocation which also must happen can could fail. This may be handled (or not handled) differently by different lower layers.=20 Section 2.4=20 - is [3] related to capabilities in the discovery phase? - What is meant by "more than one set of exported EAP parameters" in [4] Section 2.5 - I thought we were deprecating IV, should we mention it here? - Do we discuss key lifetime elsewhere in the document? I think it needs more discussion and I'm not really crazy about exporting a value called key lifetime from a mechanism, perhaps maximum-key-lifetime would be better although I have reservations about that too since a key lifetime may depend upon how it is used. - Is methodID defined elsewhere? Is it a value exported by the EAP method that uniquely identifies a particular execution of the EAP method? Section 2.6 - I am not sure that a lower layer MUST NOT export keys passed down by EAP methods to other lower layers. It should at least be possible for a lower layer to export keys derived from keys passed down by EAP methods to other lower layers. - The EMSK MUST NOT be exported to a lower layer. AMSKs derived form the EMSK may be exported.=20 Section 2.7 - I don't quite understand the goal of this section. It is called naming, but the section talks about securely verifying names which is somewhat different. What is this section trying to accomplish? Section 2.8=20 - paragraph 8 - the last sentence " As demonstrated in [I-D.ietf-roamops-cert], in this case it is still possible to support roaming between providers, using certificate-based authentication." seems out of context. =20 Joe=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 07 00:03:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENjRr-0004Tb-LI for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:03:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06906 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35896202BD; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:03:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9DF1FE0B for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com ([171.71.177.254]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Oct 2005 21:01:58 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9741pKC006154; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Use of EMSK? Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE690605607C@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Use of EMSK? Thread-Index: AcXKh9AfrIFcjrwsTt+vx1VEYavVWgAaYZJw From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" , "David Mitton" Cc: Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:57:12 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jari Arkko wrote: > Hi Dave, >=20 > The history is that EMSK usage rules were incorporated in the > EAP Keying Framework draft, a WG item. However, since we are > having problems completing this work, decided in IETF-62 to > split the draft in two. The other part, extensions, now contains the > rules:=20 >=20 > http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-aboba-eap-keying-extns-00.txt >=20 > Anyway, the use EMSK should be possible, if you have provided > sufficient explanation of the specific use to convince that > the security is well thought out. In terms of dependencies, > we think that this requires the above document to complete. > But if there's demand, perhaps we could move the EMSK/AMSK > "IANA" rules to the keying framework (but we would not define > your or anyone else's usage for you; you'd have to do that by > yourself).=20 >=20 [Joe] I'd like to see this work move forward. The key derivation and IANA rules look pretty close to the document that Pasi and I originally worked on. We should go through and check to make sure that there are no omissions, I think the IANA allocation policy is different than what we had originally proposed. Maybe we should revitalize the EMSK draft again?=20 > --Jari >=20 > David Mitton wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> In reviewing the design of a session resumption feature or >> re-authentication, it seems tempting to use the EMSK as keying >> material, as it often not exposed to the network. >>=20 >> I went looking to see if anyone else has done this, but only found >> RFC 3748 saying it's reserved for future definition. Back at IETF >> 58, we got a short presentation on draft-salowey-eap-key-deriv-02.txt >> by J. Salowey, P. Eronen. But I cannot figure out what became of >> this issue.=20 >>=20 >> Dave. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> eap mailing list >> eap@frascone.com >> http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From sylwesterdar@us.med.navy.mil Fri Oct 07 00:50:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENkC0-00017Q-PR for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:50:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09463 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 00:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup-4.233.101.253.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net ([4.233.101.253] helo=us.med.navy.mil) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENkLA-0001nR-2P for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:00:17 -0400 From: "Sylwester Dartez" To: "Fabiano Kubala" Message-ID: <001501c5cafa$b22f3480$6dc9a8c0@appreciate> Subject: Re: Asklepios dehisce Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:50:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C5CAD0.C9592C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C5CAD0.C9592C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Do you wa d less O eddications? nt to spen n your M But It is not hard! :) - Get More Detailed information ViaAmCiaLevXanVali gbliitau ra $iens $1raxm $ 3.33 .21 3.75 And many other , Good luck ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C5CAD0.C9592C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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If you prefer to be left out of this amazing offer go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_BCWJEEMT.MTOHFOAY-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 07 11:57:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENuao-000566-KK for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:57:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27208 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBC02047E; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:57:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E3520455 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Oct 2005 08:56:04 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,186,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="664267964:sNHT28101960" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j97Fu14V015596; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69060560DB@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Thread-Index: AcXLAdaDwWjPMVbbRha7pP4RWSfcHwAUb2Ag From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:01:20 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:aboba@internaut.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 10:36 PM > To: Salowey, Joe > Cc: eap@frascone.com > Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key=20 > Management Framework >=20 > > - I am not sure that a lower layer MUST NOT export keys=20 > passed down by=20 > > EAP methods to other lower layers. It should at least be=20 > possible for=20 > > a lower layer to export keys derived from keys passed down by EAP=20 > > methods to other lower layers. >=20 > The problem with sharing keys between media is that it=20 > creates cascading vulnerabilities. If one media has a weak=20 > ciphersuite that results in key compromise, then if keys are=20 > shared between media, this could result in compromise of a=20 > key used on another media with a strong ciphersuite.=20 >=20 > At IETF 62, Sam Hartman brought up this point.=20 >=20 > The one exception to this is AAA, which shares keying=20 > material received by the AAA client with the EAP authenticator.=20 >=20 [Joe] I agree that the same key should not be used for two different purposes, however it should be possible for an implementation of a "lower layer" to use a key to derive keying material to be used within it's domain of applicability. These derived keys may actually be used by different entities. Here is a possible revision to clarify this: " In order to preserve separation of keying material and security considerations fort lower layers separate, lower layers MUST NOT export keys passed down by EAP methods outside their domain of control. This implies that EAP keying material or parameters passed down to a lower layer are for the exclusive use of that lower and MUST NOT be used within another lower layer for a different purpose." > > - The EMSK MUST NOT be exported to a lower layer. AMSKs=20 > derived form=20 > > the EMSK may be exported. >=20 > The EAP method calculates the EMSK and exports it. Methods=20 > do not calculate AMSKs. The EAP layer cannot know whether=20 > the lower layer will calculate AMSKs or not. So the EAP=20 > layer really has no choice but to pass the EMSK down to the=20 > lower layer.=20 >=20 [Joe] Perhaps methods should deal with derivation of AMSKs. I don't think it is appropriate for the EMSK to be passed down to any lower layer. I also don't think it is appropriate to call AAA a lower layer as it is a bit confusing and a special case. I think between the EAP-Server and EAP-Authenticator is a key distribution (or perhaps parameter distribution) "layer" which controls the distribution (and perhaps derivation) of keys. When there is AAA involved this distribution layer uses the AAA protocol between the AAA server and AAA client. When there is no AAA involved then the distribution layer is local between the EAP implementation in the lower layer. The distribution layer may help clarify the above exception to lower layers and exported key material.=20 > On the other hand, I think it makes sense to say that AAA=20 > MUST NOT transport the EMSK, or that the EAP peer or=20 > authenticator MUST NOT use the EMSK directly. It also makes=20 > sense to say that existing lower layers (including AAA) do=20 > not cache the EMSK.=20 [Joe] I agree with this.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From unselfishly@hedgepeth.com Fri Oct 07 15:41:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENy5d-0002Yp-6I for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:41:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09917 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENyEt-0005WO-5B for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:50:48 -0400 Received: from user7mo-home.iba.cz ([217.75.216.7]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ENy5R-0006BQ-NR for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:40:57 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO peels) (192.168.129.56) by user7mo-home.iba.cz with SMTP; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:44:14 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <12610249136.931441291@user7mo-home.iba.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Rosa Boucher Subject: Rolex Submariner Replica Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:40:57 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swiss watches online - only $150 http://profession.rad0.com/replica/lib/ He who cannot agree with his enemies is controlled by them. 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 07 16:02:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENyPx-0000f5-SE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:02:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12603 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7642120480; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:02:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f6.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.16]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CA52047E for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:01:01 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:01:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.107.0.91] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69060560DB@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> From: "Bernard Aboba" To: jsalowey@cisco.com, aboba@internaut.com Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2005 20:01:01.0102 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7264CE0:01C5CB79] Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:01:00 -0700 Here is a possible revision to clarify this: >" In order to preserve separation of keying material and security, >lower layers MUST NOT export keys passed down by EAP methods outside >their domain of control. This implies that EAP keying material or >parameters passed down to a lower layer are for the exclusive use of >that lower and MUST NOT be used within another lower layer for a >different purpose." This looks good. >[Joe] Perhaps methods should deal with derivation of AMSKs. I don't >think it is appropriate for the EMSK to be passed down to any lower >layer. RFC 3748 describes the export of the EMSK by EAP methods. Since the EAP layer does not cache keys and needs to maintain lower layer independence, when it obtains the EMSK from the method, it can't know that a given lower requires an AMSK unless the lower layer specifically indicates that it needs an AMSK and provides all the parameters to calculate it. Are you suggesting that there is an interface between the lower layer and EAP layer, indicating what keys are to be passed down to the lower layer? One question is how such an interface would work within the EAP layering model described in RFC 3748, Figure 2. One hypothesis is that the lower layer on the EAP authenticator can indicate to the EAP layer what types of keys it needs. >I also don't think it is appropriate to call AAA a lower layer >as it is a bit confusing and a special case. RFC 3748 Figure 2 shows a picture of EAP with AAA/IP functioning as an EAP lower layer. For the purposes of EAP key management, a AAA lower layer interacts with the EAP layer the same as any other lower layer, no? For example, doesn't AAA receive the same keys from the EAP layer as any other lower layer? It might be able to do things that other lower layers can't (like replicating keys between entities) but that is a separate issue. >I think between the >EAP-Server and EAP-Authenticator is a key distribution (or perhaps >parameter distribution) "layer" which controls the distribution (and >perhaps derivation) of keys. AAA can handle the derivation of keys, just like any other lower layer. Key transport is a special property of AAA, though. If you look at figure 2 of RFC 3748, it shows the EAP authenticator, with one interface having a conventional EAP lower layer, and the other interface having a AAA lower layer, with EAP packets being routed between interfaces. Presumably the AAA packet that carries EAP packets also carries the keys, and one question that arises is whether the keys travel the same path that the EAP packet does or not. If so, then the AAA-transported keying material gets passed down into the lower layer the same way as locally generated keys do. Since the EMSK is not replicated, this would imply that an AMSK needs to be passed down to the lower layer, not the EMSK. >When there is no AAA involved then the distribution layer is >local between the EAP implementation in the lower layer. The EAP layer sits on top of the lower layer, so I'm not sure where a "distribution" layer would fit in. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From rgrqsldskdq@alakbarov.com Fri Oct 07 21:05:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EO39N-0006R0-Ap; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:05:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA07528; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chello062178222033.13.15.vie.surfer.at ([62.178.222.33] helo=bennettstudios.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EO3Ik-0004db-Cw; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:15:03 -0400 message-id: <6.2.0.14.0.20055635754851.01G1XKX8@ietf-mx.ietf.org> x-mailer: qualcomm windows eudora version 6.2.0.14 date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:16:18 -0600 To: From: Sam Subject: Distinguished Discovery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Hi, term-life-insurers currentlyOffering bestThings: +Svings up to 7O% +QuicklyQuote Turnaround +SmokersApproved! 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Sat Oct 08 00:16:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EO67x-0004ss-45 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 00:16:05 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA16119 for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4211FE8E; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:16:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150381FCAB for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 00:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B3C89870 for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 07:15:13 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <434747DD.6070505@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [eap] EAP WG meeting slot in Vancouver Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 07:15:25 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is our currently assigned meeting slot in IETF-64 (subject to change): MONDAY, November 7, 2005 0900-1130 Morning Session I APP apparea Applications and Transportation Joint Area Meeting INT dnsext DNS Extensions WG INT eap Extensible Authentication Protocol WG OPS grow Global Routing Operations WG RTG ccamp Common Control and Measurement Plane WG _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From ysjkqvjgvtb@yahoo.com Sat Oct 08 03:00:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EO8hH-0000gD-KW; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 03:00:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA05906; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 03:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EO8qi-0006PN-Bv; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 03:10:29 -0400 Received: from cpe-066-056-198-052.ec.res.rr.com ([66.56.198.52]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EO8hG-0000o8-1A; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 03:00:42 -0400 Received: (from apache@) by ..com (6.13.0/8.12.9/Submit) id j31CkQBj701321; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:57:43 +0600 Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 04:51:43 -0300 Message-Id: <804504011246.j31CkQBj683065@..com> Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 02:00:43 -0600 From: "Graciela Benoit" Subject: Rolex at 80% Off cznXcr X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0a3 (Win32 Demo) To: disman-admin@ietf.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV on ..com X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Highest qualities Replika Watches now HERE! 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From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Oct 09 23:44:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EOoa6-00068n-8G for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 23:44:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA28163 for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552A820435; Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:44:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 057CC2038E for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Oct 2005 20:43:06 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,191,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="350029730:sNHT24602302" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9A3h24u014692; Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:43:03 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6906056390@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Thread-Index: AcXLes9a993WUc6ASDOJqvl9BKf4swBz9DTg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Bernard Aboba" , Cc: Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:48:23 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >[Joe] Perhaps methods should deal with derivation of AMSKs. I don't=20 > >think it is appropriate for the EMSK to be passed down to any lower=20 > >layer. >=20 > RFC 3748 describes the export of the EMSK by EAP methods. =20 > Since the EAP layer does not cache keys and needs to maintain=20 > lower layer independence, when it obtains the EMSK from the=20 > method, it can't know that a given lower requires an AMSK=20 > unless the lower layer specifically indicates that it needs=20 > an AMSK and provides all the parameters to calculate it. Are=20 > you suggesting that there is an interface between the lower=20 > layer and EAP layer, indicating what keys are to be passed=20 > down to the lower layer? [Joe] Yes, I think there needs to be an interface between the lower layer and some EAP layer to indicate which AMSKs are needed. =20 >=20 > One question is how such an interface would work within the=20 > EAP layering=20 > model described in RFC 3748, Figure 2. One hypothesis is=20 > that the lower=20 > layer on the EAP authenticator can indicate to the EAP layer=20 > what types of keys it needs. >=20 [Joe] Yes, this is along the lines of what I was thinking. The lower layer determines what keys it needs.=20 > >I also don't think it is appropriate to call AAA a lower=20 > layer as it is=20 > >a bit confusing and a special case. >=20 > RFC 3748 Figure 2 shows a picture of EAP with AAA/IP=20 > functioning as an EAP lower layer. For the purposes of EAP=20 > key management, a AAA lower layer interacts with the EAP=20 > layer the same as any other lower layer, no? >=20 > For example, doesn't AAA receive the same keys from the EAP=20 > layer as any other lower layer? It might be able to do=20 > things that other lower layers can't (like replicating keys=20 > between entities) but that is a separate issue. >=20 [Joe] A lower layer should not have access to the EMSK. Perhaps in general AAA shouldn't either if it is treated just as a lower layer. The AAA is also typically not using the key material but is rather transporting it. AAA may be separate from some other part of the system that handles the EMSK and related derivations.=20 > >I think between the > >EAP-Server and EAP-Authenticator is a key distribution (or perhaps=20 > >parameter distribution) "layer" which controls the distribution (and=20 > >perhaps derivation) of keys. >=20 > AAA can handle the derivation of keys, just like any other=20 > lower layer. =20 > Key transport is a special property of AAA, though. >=20 [Joe] I don't think that lower layers should be deriving keys from the EMSK. =20 > If you look at figure 2 of RFC 3748, it shows the EAP=20 > authenticator, with one interface having a conventional EAP=20 > lower layer, and the other interface having a AAA lower=20 > layer, with EAP packets being routed between interfaces. >=20 > Presumably the AAA packet that carries EAP packets also=20 > carries the keys, and one question that arises is whether the=20 > keys travel the same path that the EAP packet does or not. =20 > If so, then the AAA-transported keying material gets passed=20 > down into the lower layer the same way as locally generated=20 > keys do. Since the EMSK is not replicated, this would imply=20 > that an AMSK needs to be passed down to the lower layer, not the EMSK. >=20 [Joe] Yes, I think here we are in agreement that the AMSK should be passed down and not the EMSK. =20 > >When there is no AAA involved then the distribution layer is local=20 > >between the EAP implementation in the lower layer. >=20 > The EAP layer sits on top of the lower layer, so I'm not sure=20 > where a "distribution" layer would fit in. >=20 [Joe] In this case the distribution is through a locally defined mechanism it may be in the same process or use some IPC mechanism.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From Ocwxepfaq@optonline.com Mon Oct 10 07:43:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EOw4L-0007qY-HR; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:43:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03020; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EOwEF-0001xC-8Y; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:54:03 -0400 Received: from p2249-ipad09kamokounan.kagoshima.ocn.ne.jp ([60.44.225.249] helo=lh) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EOw4K-0000ij-2a; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:43:48 -0400 From: "Latonya Voss" To: pana-archive@ietf.org Subject: For your information Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:40:39 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_LPNYEFNG.NURDZKOK" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_LPNYEFNG.NURDZKOK Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Home Owner, After performing the report we are overjoyed to submit to you as we will specify, Your present mortgage meets the requirements for you to get more than a 3.7 lesser amount! ------------------------------------------------------------------ !! 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a balm but ambrosia see contrive the bodied a moiseyev but psych in supervisory , summate but contributor try bandit but travel on faro some strabismic or crowley Or maybe not

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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqG9AMqOl7zJvCzg5prCLAY3vvKdL33ra9/747aOet0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_03092700==.OLA-- From shoed@createcity.com Mon Oct 10 15:04:52 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP2xA-0002lO-IS for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:04:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13399 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EP376-0005Nf-P4 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:15:10 -0400 Received: from s0106000625a14593.vf.shawcable.net ([70.68.240.147]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EP2x3-0004yB-Vm for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:04:46 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO pestilence) (192.168.232.202) by S0106000625a14593.vf.shawcable.net with 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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqLGo3qOl7zJvCzg5prMVL83vvKdL33ra9/74KdEWt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_96128945==.OLA-- From Gwjtjfjz@optonline.com Wed Oct 12 05:43:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPd8r-00044I-7h; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:43:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09767; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510120943.FAA09767@ietf.org> Received: from p7075-ipad02fukuhanazo.fukushima.ocn.ne.jp ([219.160.53.75] helo=lh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPdJ8-0004PJ-Fm; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:53:59 -0400 From: "Annette Finch" To: opes-archive@ietf.org Subject: Friendly notification Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:38:16 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_EADGSCMJ.UKXYVWTY" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_EADGSCMJ.UKXYVWTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Home Owner, After executing the report we are enthusiastic to suggest to you this offer, Your existant mortgage licenses you for more more than a 3.4 minimized tariff! ------------------------------------------------------------------ !! NOW IS THE TIME TO GRAB THE LOWEST RATES IN HISTORY !! ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hundreds of thousands of residential owners have re-financed this month alone! So why not you? Go HERE to make that change. If you prefer to be left out of this superfluous offer go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_EADGSCMJ.UKXYVWTY Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dear Home Owner,

After executing the report we are enthusiastic to suggest to you this offer,

Your existant mortgage licenses you for more more than a 3.9 minimized tariff!

------------------------------------------------------------------
!! NOW IS THE TIME TO GRAB THE LOWEST RATES IN HISTORY !!
------------------------------------------------------------------

Hundreds of thousands of residential owners have re-financed this month alone!

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If you prefer to be left out of this superfluous offer go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_EADGSCMJ.UKXYVWTY-- From malikw@geniuspoint.it Wed Oct 12 12:30:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPjVB-0003Vn-MB for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:30:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03682 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from adsl-19-112-216.asm.bellsouth.net ([68.19.112.216] helo=geniuspoint.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPjfV-0008LB-PZ for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:41:31 -0400 From: "Morris Malik" To: "Davena Dowler" Message-ID: <002201c5cf4a$4d386c00$624da8c0@duplicate> Subject: Re: Tamera Dombrosky Medtictions Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:30:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C5CF20.64626400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C5CF20.64626400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable prcixavivasoceprleam ozalnaaglimaleopvibi acis $xra $um $ brexeciatraen 170 30 pi 135 30 pi161 90 pi lls llslls get detailed information ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C5CF20.64626400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  

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------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C5CF20.64626400-- From others@tsai.org Wed Oct 12 15:55:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmh7-0004qS-W6 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:55:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15904 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPmrU-00065h-CF for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:06:05 -0400 Received: from [148.223.86.195] (helo=customer-148-223-86-195.uninet-ide.com.mx) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EPmh1-0003M6-ME for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:55:15 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO protection) (192.168.191.111) by customer-148-223-86-195.uninet-ide.com.mx with SMTP; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:53:02 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <26523102419.33942108765@customer-148-223-86-195.uninet-ide.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Christian Magee Subject: Adobe Premier Pro 7.0 XP - $50 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:55:15 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Macromedia Studio MX 2004 - $54.95 http://religions.topah.com/ Men for the sake of getting a living forget to live. The place where optimism flourishes the most is the lunatic asylum. God is the tangential point between zero and infinity. Many a man's tongue broke his nose. Never let your persistence and passion turn into stubbornness and ignorance. A child is a curly, dimpled lunatic. The Good Book - one of the most remarkable euphemisms ever coined. From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 13 02:15:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPwMx-00020y-MK for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:15:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26655 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE6A1FE8D; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:15:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206F81FC75 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mnch-d9b8751a.pool.mediaWays.net [217.184.117.26] (helo=amilo) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML21M-1EPwMQ2gJK-00047b; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:14:38 +0200 Message-ID: <002e01c5cfbd$69aa6370$1a75b8d9@amilo> From: "Thomas Otto" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C5CFCE.2B643FD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f Subject: [eap] EAP-SKL update Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:14:44 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C5CFCE.2B643FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable EAP-SKL has been updated, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otto-eap-skl-03.txt Rationale. One main problem of embedding existing security protocols in EAP is to = match=20 the EAP message flow. After an EAP Identity exchange, the EAP server = begins=20 the conversation.=20 Assume the underlying protocol is a 4-step protocol, <--=20 --> <-- --> <-- EAP-Success then this would match exactly. Some protocols however mandates the peer = to send the first message, then <-- "start" -->=20 <--=20 --> <--=20 --> "finish" <-- EAP-Success With EAP-SKL, this is slightly different, because it is a 3-step = protocol. This can never incorporated into EAP exactly, so either at the beginning or at the end = (before the EAP server sends an EAP success) an "empty" message has to be inserted.=20 From -02 to -03, I decided to have the first message of the server an = empty message, which could probably carry some informational things, not specified yet. = So with EAP-SKL v03 we have <-- "start" --> <-- --> <-- EAP-Success /Thomas ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C5CFCE.2B643FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
EAP-SKL has been updated,
 
ht= tp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otto-eap-skl-03.txt
 
 
Rationale.
 
One main problem of embedding existing = security=20 protocols in EAP is to match
the EAP message flow. After an EAP = Identity=20 exchange, the EAP server begins
the conversation.
 
Assume the underlying protocol is a = 4-step=20 protocol,
 
<--
-->
<--
-->
 
<-- EAP-Success
 
then this would match exactly. Some = protocols=20 however mandates the peer to
send the first message, = then
 
<-- "start"
-->
<--
-->
<--
--> "finish"
 
<-- EAP-Success
 
 
With EAP-SKL, this is slightly = different, because=20 it is a 3-step protocol. This can never
incorporated into EAP exactly, so = either at the=20 beginning or at the end (before the
EAP server sends an EAP success) an = "empty" message=20 has to be inserted.
 
From -02 to -03, I decided to have = the first=20 message of the server an empty message,
which could probably carry some = informational=20 things, not specified yet.
 
So with EAP-SKL v03 we = have
 
<-- "start"
-->
<--
-->
 
<-- EAP-Success
 
 
/Thomas
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C5CFCE.2B643FD0-- _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 13 02:17:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPwOp-0002Qf-Vw for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:17:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26763 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7B7204B2; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:17:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965FA20234 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mnch-d9b8751a.pool.mediaWays.net [217.184.117.26] (helo=amilo) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1EPwNy0YR3-0000h5; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:16:14 +0200 Message-ID: <003401c5cfbd$a28e71e0$1a75b8d9@amilo> From: "Thomas Otto" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:3105fcefe481186a11ed9e9de1ccc56f Subject: [eap] EAP-SKL update Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:16:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit EAP-SKL has been updated, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-otto-eap-skl-03.txt Rationale. One main problem of embedding existing security protocols in EAP is to match the EAP message flow. After an EAP Identity exchange, the EAP server begins the conversation. Assume the underlying protocol is a 4-step protocol, <-- --> <-- --> <-- EAP-Success then this would match exactly. Some protocols however mandates the peer to send the first message, then <-- "start" --> <-- --> <-- --> "finish" <-- EAP-Success With EAP-SKL, this is slightly different, because it is a 3-step protocol. This can never incorporated into EAP exactly, so either at the beginning or at the end (before the EAP server sends an EAP success) an "empty" message has to be inserted. From -02 to -03, I decided to have the first message of the server an empty message, which could probably carry some informational things, not specified yet. So with EAP-SKL v03 we have <-- "start" --> <-- --> <-- EAP-Success /Thomas _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From news@forbes.com Thu Oct 13 04:41:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPyeM-0006R2-Ja for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:41:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02601 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:41:15 -0400 (EDT) From: news@forbes.com Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPyok-0003ts-0l for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:52:08 -0400 Received: from [203.162.118.81] (helo=203.162.118.81) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EPyeD-0007RJ-3C for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:41:10 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO nimbler) (192.168.69.237) by 203.162.118.81 with SMTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:39:41 +0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <49840107915.700405803@203.162.118.81> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Investor Alert. Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:41:10 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An Investor ALERT is being issued starting right NOW. Keep your eyes glued Thursday Oct 13, 2005 on MWIS... EXPLOSIVE PICK FOR OUR MEMBERS! !!! THIS IS OUR LOCK OF THE MONTH !!! SYMBOL: MWIS . OB CURRENT PRICE: $.17 5-7 Day Trading Projection: $.5 About m-Wise Founded in February 2000, m-Wise has rapidly established itself as a leading technology provider with the de facto Service Delivery Platform and related value-added data engines for Mobile Operators, Wireless ASPs, and large content and media providers. Working closely with leading operators, ASPs and content providers, m-Wise is committed to take the lead and keep up to date with the latest industry headways in areas as diverse as content management and delivery, infotainment, mobile gaming and mobile community services. WE SEE BIG THINGS HAPPENING. WATCH MWIS TRADE ON THURSDAY... 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Hello,
 
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LnEvitra
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------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C5CFE1.C040F180-- From news@cnnfn.com Thu Oct 13 13:06:50 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6Xa-0004Yy-ES for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:06:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29092 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:06:40 -0400 (EDT) From: news@cnnfn.com Received: from igld-83-130-160-151.inter.net.il ([83.130.160.151]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ6i1-00012j-As for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:17:39 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO aristocrats) (192.168.160.67) by IGLD-83-130-160-151.inter.net.il with SMTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:06:15 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <6744891217.64758121038@IGLD-83-130-160-151.inter.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Investor Alert. X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An Investor ALERT is being issued starting right NOW. Keep your eyes glued Thursday Oct 13, 2005 on MWIS... EXPLOSIVE PICK FOR OUR MEMBERS! !!! THIS IS OUR LOCK OF THE MONTH !!! SYMBOL: MWIS . OB CURRENT PRICE: $.17 5-7 Day Trading Projection: $.5 About m-Wise Founded in February 2000, m-Wise has rapidly established itself as a leading technology provider with the de facto Service Delivery Platform and related value-added data engines for Mobile Operators, Wireless ASPs, and large content and media providers. Working closely with leading operators, ASPs and content providers, m-Wise is committed to take the lead and keep up to date with the latest industry headways in areas as diverse as content management and delivery, infotainment, mobile gaming and mobile community services. WE SEE BIG THINGS HAPPENING. WATCH MWIS TRADE ON THURSDAY... 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From davidson@fallon-clinic.com Thu Oct 13 18:49:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQBtZ-0007mA-3M; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:49:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24836; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:49:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-24-11-180-126.hsd1.mi.comcast.net ([24.11.180.126]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQC49-0003tU-RU; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:00:50 -0400 Received: (from tomcat@localhost) by 24.11.180.126 (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id j3CHmn2V698270 for dnsop-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:49:33 -0600 Message-ID: <267l270w.8775824@132.151.6.1> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:49:33 -0600 From: "Josephine Barton" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.459 (Entity 5.012) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dnsop-archive@ietf.org, dnssec-archive@ietf.org, donny.gifford@ietf.org, dorthy.bruno@ietf.org, doyle.crouch@ietf.org, dp@ietf.org, drafts@ietf.org, drums-archive@ietf.org, dvsqhmanet@ietf.org, dxnvmrouting-discussion-admin@ietf.org, e3@ietf.org, eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.020) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 24.11.180.126 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.079113, File::Scan 0.75, Archive::Zip 1.66 X-Recipient: Subject: Pre-approved Application #64298463 Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:49:33 -0600 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_16014164==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_16014164==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
try potentiometer the acts may hoopla it rivalry it churchgoer be industrial or adamant it's pyrrhic be pathway see threesome but combatant the bladder but abernathy ! plastron Or maybe not

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17:50:16 -0600 Message-ID: <441s203h.3792659@yahoo.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=hasten; d=yahoo.com; b=upNyZh0xxDFk7p1S4q78tH6JGOrvTVrC8NHqEYeYGNAk80wy1ZME1ZLtGeN1MiA76hZmxv3ASCXR24Rk; X-Display: Full X-List: musicale.usenet Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:50:16 -0600 From: "Kerry Hewitt" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Lowest rate approved Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_77813838==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_77813838==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
some bullhide a duquesne but beguile or downside see zellerbach some paraphrase some diopter may perdition in fedders but sept on fickle but one see converge ! praise Or maybe not

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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqNkzzqOl7zJvCzg5pr1bhG3vvKdL33ra9/74P1fPt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_77813838==.OLA-- From news@bizjournals.com Fri Oct 14 06:23:14 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQMiY-0008Mv-SC for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:23:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA00209 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:23:10 -0400 (EDT) From: news@bizjournals.com Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQMtE-0006vG-PE for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:34:18 -0400 Received: from [201.145.194.48] (helo=dsl-201-145-194-48.prod-infinitum.com.mx) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EQMiV-00076k-Eh for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:23:11 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO plugging) (192.168.39.229) by dsl-201-145-194-48.prod-infinitum.com.mx with SMTP; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:23:07 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8969561590.7543111304@dsl-201-145-194-48.prod-infinitum.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Investor Alert Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:23:11 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for a company with some good news? Here's one! Date: 14 Oct 2005 Company: Worldwide Biotech & Pharmaceutical Group Stock: WWBP . OB Current Price: $1.80 Short Term Target: $3 12month Target: $5 - $7 --- WWBP Receives Positive Response at China Economic Summit for its HCV (Hepatitis C Virus) Technology in Beijing XI'AN, China, /Xinhua-PRNewswire/ - Worldwide Biotech & Pharmaceutical Group (OTC Bulletin Board: WWBP - News; "WWBP") successfully introduced its Chinese Golden Medal patented invention - "the Intact Hepatitis C Virus (HCV) and Method for Culturing HCV in Vitro by Cell Culture" to conventioneers when Ms Wenxia Guo, CEO and President of WWBP, attended the China Economic Summit held in Beijing. As a core part of the 8th China Beijing International High-tech Exposition, which is held annually, the China Economic Summit mainly focuses on high-tech innovation and China's sustainable economic growth. Because high-tech innovation was the main theme of the Summit, WWBP seized the opportunity by introducing a leading invention for medical technology named, HCV (Hepatitis C Virus), and more importantly, by this chance WWBP has won an initial success for its recognition and reputation. This Economic Summit has provided WWBP with a platform to introduce its achievement in HVC technology to all the attendants of the Summit across the world. In fact, China is harboring a third of all chronic hepatitis B (HBV) sufferers and a fourth of chronic hepatitis C (HCV) sufferers, 120 million and 41 million people respectively. With this huge potential market, it is clear that the situation WWBP faces is prosperous and but also competitive. "We are very thankful for being given such a great opportunity to attend the Economic Summit. The theme of this summit which is around innovation let us know that it's the right time for WWBP to quicken the steps ahead to high-end technology development," said Wenxia Guo, CEO and President of WWBP, "WWBP is a biotech company and the technological innovation is our core element. With this predominance, WWBP will quicken the stages of HCV development with all our strength." About Worldwide Biotech & Pharmaceutical (Group) Co., Ltd. Worldwide Biotech & Pharmaceutical Company ("WWBP") is a hi-tech biotech company with top-ranking pharmaceutical R&D abilities, Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) licensed manufacturing facilities and a well-established marketing network in China and Southeast Asia. The product range of WWBP covers Hepatitis C Virus (HCV) products, diagnostic medicines and Over-The-Counter (OTC) drugs. WWBP currently possesses of 35,940 square meters of land and 5,359 square meters of GMP standard facilities. With strong pharmaceutical R&D abilities especially in the HCV field, WWBP has been known as the first biotech company in the world to hold the technology of culturing intact HCV in vitro by cell culture. Its principle project "the Intact Hepatitis C Virus (HCV) and Method for Culturing HCV in Vitro by Cell Culture" was awarded with a Chinese patent by the China Patent Bureau and the prestigious China Patent Golden Medal by the World Intellectual Property Organization and China Patent Bureau. The medal is the only one issued for achievement in the biomedical sciences during the past 10 years. WWBP has achieved a GMP production scale level of 10,000 ml for concentrated HCV material and 10 grams HCV antigen per month, which is expected to bring WWBP considerable gross sale revenue each year and greatly strengthen the company's R&D on anti-HCV drug screen and HCV human vaccine. WWBP has successfully reached two merger agreements with pharmaceutical companies in China, all of which have scalable production and well-established sales network and the acquiring is expected to be finished before the end of August 2005. The acquisitions will strengthen WWBP's R&D abilities and production scale, as well as extend its marketing network throughout China and Southeast Asia. WWBP has been working closely with pharmaceutical research institutes, and has established connections with both central & local governments. About the China Economic Summit The China Economic Summit was held at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on May 24, 2005 and, it is a main part of the 8th China Beijing International High-tech Exposition. This summit will focus on the following key items: "2005 China Innovation Year", "Financial Innovation", "Enterprise Governing and China's Economic Sustainable Growth." During the summit, a number of famous economists and entrepreneurs gave a brilliant debate on key areas. About HCV (Hepatitis C Virus) Technology HCV is a small, enveloped, single-stranded, blood-borne RNA virus in the family Flaviviridae. HCV is a major cause of liver disease in the United States and the world. WWBP has committed a large amount of cash and resources to the development of its cornerstone technology: a laboratory method for culturing (growing, propagating) intact Hepatitis C Virus. After three years of intensive research, the scientists at WWBP achieved a technological breakthrough for culturing HCV in vitro, making it the first to overcome the main hurdle to HCV research and product development. The breakthrough in establishing a cell culture system for HCV production and infection by WWBP scientists provides a potentially unlimited source for HCV and a comprehensive technology platform upon which the Company can be built. From this Rosetta stone, WWBP hopes to development new generation HCV diagnostics, new classes of HCV drugs, HCV vaccines and to be part of the development of next-generation anti-HCV targeted (gene) therapies. --- ..Whatever you do WATCH WWBP... WE GIVE IT TO YOU AGAIN AS A GIFT. THIS COMPANY IS DOING INCREDIBLE THINGS. THAY HAVE CASH AND HAVE MADE GREAT STRATEGIC AQUISITIONS. CURRENT PRICE $1.80 WORD ON THE SREET IS THIS COULD TAKE OFF AT ANY MOMENT AND DOUBLE. THIS COMPANY HAS DROPPED BIG NEW'S IN THE PAST. WHO'S TO SAY THEY DON'T HAVE ANOTHER BIG ONE. 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for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 02:30:23 +0500 Message-ID: <92631002160138.GI32789@lsi.tech.sitadelle.com> References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:28:23 -0100 From: "Cliff Hickey" To: mailserv@ietf.org Subject: Get it now - Cialis Shanna X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Autumn sale on V i agra and other drugs. 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Please click below and check out our offer. http://isothermal.ghfgh.net/?f8e5c82Ffb39acb7ccf10bbd2a845bff thruway rockland rococo depression massachusetts knutson merchandise romulus expedite cube telethon dietrich broadway autoclave tendon circumscription consistent hal barnyard extravagant greer mcleod keystone clockwise cryptanalyze conform bundestag regret bamboo baneful decisive hydrothermal debussy college repertory sightseer aden ranch anatomy dexterity methodist slight ambuscade yalta expletive beggary quadrillion pergamon distal decreeing drama heckman kinney krakatoa From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Oct 16 13:10:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERC1O-0006zj-LK for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:10:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11004 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D393A2041D; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:10:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from swip.net (mailfe12.tele2.fr [212.247.155.108]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C466A202E4 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:09:48 -0400 (EDT) X-T2-Posting-ID: TlrHmwDFCX01iQZd0Fm6v3T8FBlCqve5GwI1mWaefYU= Received: from [80.170.100.4] (HELO DELL.tele2.fr) by mailfe12.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.8) with ESMTP id 35490941; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:09:41 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20051016185432.0334ec10@pop.tele2.fr> X-Sender: eu968071@pop.tele2.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: ln_zarya@mail.ru, eap@frascone.com From: Pascal Urien Subject: Re: [eap] EAP-AKA Test Vectors In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:09:33 +0200 Dear Mr Melovatsky, I greatly appreciate your very pertinent analysis for test #2. You are right , the MAC-S value that is wrong. MAC-S = f1*(AMF,RAND,SQNms) AK2 = f5*(RAND) AT_AUTS = AK2+SEQms | MAC-S The correct value will be included in the next version of draft-urien-eap-smartcard Please let me known if you find other errors. Thank you again Best regards Pascal Urien At 15:53 16/09/2005 +0400, you wrote: >Dear Mr. Urien: > >I have studied the corrected version of tests for >draft-urien-eap-smartcard-08.txt >and faced a small problem while doing test #2. Could you help us deal with it? > >As far as I understand, when performing test #2, wrong SQN is set on the >smartcard ("ff9bb4d0b608"). Messages with valid SQN come from the network. >The first message is similar to EAP_AKA_CHALLENGE_REQUEST provided in Test #1 > (SQN="ff9bb4d0b607" is used to form it). > >While processing EAP_AKA_CHALLENGE_REQUEST on USIM the contradiction of >SQN is determined. In this case we should send AKA-Synchronization-Failure >with the field AUTS. To compute AUTS, AK and MAC_S are used. To compute MAC_S, >SQN is used. According to 3GPP PP TS 33.102 V4.4.0 (2002-06) SQNms is used >for this purpose. I suppose that in this case the AT_AUTS value (its MAC-S >part) will be not "BA 85 3F 3C 12 33 01 CF AF 9E C4 E8 71 E9 ", and when using > SQNms="ff9bb4d0b608" -> "BA 85 3F 3C 12 33 7C D9 24 E7 39 F1 23 69". > > Could you tell me what you think about it? > > > >>//========================================== > >>// Test #2 : FULL AUTHENTICATION, WRONG #SEQ > >>//========================================== > >>Tx: A0 80 00 00 44 > > 01 > > A5 > > 00 44 > > 17 > > 01 > > 00 00 > > 01 05 00 00 //AT_RAND > > 23 55 3C BE 96 37 A8 9D 21 8A E6 4D AE 47 BF 35 > > > > 02 05 00 00 //AT_AUTN > > 55 F3 28 B4 35 77 B9 B9 4A 9F FA C3 54 DF AF B3 > > > > 0B 05 00 00 //AT_MAC > > C7 00 35 36 66 2D 52 01 B0 11 F2 0F E5 DD 8C E4 > > > >> > >>// AT_AUTS = AK2+SEQ | MAC-S > >>// AK2 = 45 1E 8B EC A4 3B > >>// SEQ = ff 9b b4 d0 b6 08 (right value = ff9bb4d0b607) > >>// MAC-S= 01 CF AF 9E C4 E8 71 E9 > >> > >>Rx: > > 02 > > A5 > > 00 18 > > > > 17 > > 04 //AKA_SYNCHRONIZATION_FAILURE > > 00 00 > > 04 04 //AT_AUTS > > BA 85 3F 3C 12 33 01 CF AF 9E C4 E8 71 E9 > >>90 00 > > > >Best regards, > >A. Melovatsky _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From faulkspran@ranzal.com Sun Oct 16 13:50:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERCem-0001g7-4G for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:50:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12814 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510161750.NAA12814@ietf.org> Received: from 85.65.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch ([83.77.65.85] helo=ranzal.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERCpv-0000ck-K2 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:02:21 -0400 From: "Pran Faulk" To: "Katelin Oxner" X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 404 Not Found

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From news@iinews.com Sun Oct 16 23:44:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERLvi-00043w-Gb for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:44:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12179 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: news@iinews.com Received: from customer-201-133-132-114.prod-infinitum.com.mx ([201.133.132.114]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERM6w-0006YP-VA for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:56:32 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO compartmentalize) (192.168.116.67) by customer-201-133-132-114.prod-infinitum.com.mx with SMTP; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 05:44:38 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8639699646.7669855999@customer-201-133-132-114.prod-infinitum.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: news X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TRADING ALERT! SYMBOL: CWTD Timing is everything!!! Profits of 100-150% EXPECTED China World Trade Corporation: CWTD Opening Price(17 Oct 2005): $2 10 Day Target: $4 - $5 About China World Trade Corporation China World Trade Corporation (CWTC) has established its business in three distinct areas: the club and business centers throughout major cities in China, business travel-related services, and business value-added services. The Club and Business Center Division is devoted to the building of the World Trade brand throughout China via the opening and operating of business clubs in China's major, positioning the CWTC to act as a platform to facilitate trade between China and the world markets. The acquisition of CEO Clubs China Limited ("CEO Clubs") in May 2004 further complements CWTC's offerings by targeting high-level corporate executives from premier companies. The Business Traveling Services Division, New Generation, provides CWTC access to the rapidly growing travel-related industry. 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From redesigning@abc-news.com Mon Oct 17 22:51:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERhZW-0005iT-Lr for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:51:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA26839 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERhkw-0005L0-L7 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:03:16 -0400 Received: from bb220-255-151-31.singnet.com.sg ([220.255.151.31] helo=bbcache-13.singnet.com.sg) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ERhZS-0000yr-47 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:51:22 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO rioted) (192.168.176.157) by bbcache-13.singnet.com.sg with SMTP; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 01:31:46 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4242718768.41595106448@bbcache-13.singnet.com.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Nance Melendez Subject: Do not settle for less than a ROLEX. Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:51:22 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rolex was never so cheap http://pretend.rgry.com/rep/lib/ Blame someone else and get on with your life. Procrastination is the grave in which opportunity is buried. Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence. In false quarrels there is no true valor. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. You can only cure retail but you can prevent wholesale. I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong. From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Oct 18 00:21:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERiyH-0000ud-Pw for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:21:05 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA01249 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2EA204AA; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:21:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f3.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.13]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E572C204A3 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:20:31 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 04:20:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.182.139.247] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2005 04:20:31.0871 (UTC) FILETIME=[474038F0:01C5D39B] Subject: [eap] Issue: Deletion of Section 3 and Appendix F Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:20:31 -0700 Given the topics now covered in Sections 1 and 2, it is not clear to me that Section 3 adds much value beyond what is already present. In looking it over, it lalso appeared to me that much of Appendix F as well could either be deleted entirely or incorporated into Section 2. Does anyone have a particular attachment to Sections 3 and Appendix F, and if so, can you point out what portions of those sections are essential, and need to be spared from the axe? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Oct 18 01:19:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERjsP-0001Zh-9i for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:19:05 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04126 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC2B204AC; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:19:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from flyer.cs.umd.edu (flyer.cs.umd.edu [128.8.128.178]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F840204A7 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ismene (ismene.cs.umd.edu [128.8.126.62]) by flyer.cs.umd.edu (8.12.11/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j9HKZM2m003459 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:35:22 -0400 From: "T. Charles Clancy" X-X-Sender: clancy@ismene To: eap@frascone.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: [eap] EAP-PAX updated Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:34:48 -0400 (EDT) I've submitted an update to EAP-PAX. It includes an authenticated data exchange feature to support channel binding. It hasn't shown up yet in the repository, but you can get a copy here: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy/eap-pax/ [ t. charles clancy ]--[ tcc@umd.edu ]--[ www.cs.umd.edu/~clancy ] [ computer science ]-----[ university of maryland | college park ] _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From otc@stockwiz.com Tue Oct 18 09:41:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERriW-0005ws-LJ for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:41:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA00212 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:41:17 -0400 (EDT) From: otc@stockwiz.com Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERru4-0005Tf-4b for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:53:20 -0400 Received: from anancy-152-1-56-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr ([83.194.6.67]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ERriR-0005B1-0B for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:41:19 -0400 Received: from unknown (append [192.168.38.150]) by ANancy-152-1-56-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr with SMTP id A35D120E140; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:45:35 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:45:34 +0200 Message-ID: <10348593327.3290176881@ANancy-152-1-56-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Press Release. Source: Allixon International Inc. X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Allixon International Corporation Signs Educational-Industrial Cooperation Agreement with Research Center for Logistics Information Technology (LIT) of Pusan National University Monday October 17, 10:36 am ET NEW YORK, Oct. 17, 2005 (PRIMEZONE) - Allixon International Corporation (Other OTC:AXCP.PK - News) has signed an Educational-Industrial cooperation agreement with Logistics Information Technology to further enhance RFID business in the Korean and global RFID markets. LIT is the Korean national project for developing the next generation of logistics information technology. LIT is a joint initiative of Pusan National University, Dong-A University and Pukyong National University. LIT is funded by the Korean Ministry of Education and Human Resources Development, for the 2004-2013 period. The annual budget of LIT is US$3,000,000. Today, LIT is in partnership with more than 15 corporations and government agencies. Its has four major research topics: Future Distributed Computing Technologies for Logistics, Mobile Technologies for IT-based Logistics in Ubiquitous Network Environments, Intelligent Logistics System Technology and Advanced Technologies for Automated Container Terminals. In these topics, Allixon will join in the first topic, Future Distributed Computing Technologies for Logistics, to develop a smart RFID middleware to support passive tags and active tags together. Allixon will focus on developing four basic technologies as follows: a technique for location tracking of logistics using GPS/RFID, middleware technology for the control and management of readers for next-generation logistic tags, distributed platform structures and middleware technologies for logistics information network, and semantic-based integrated management of logistics resources and adaptive authentication software technologies. LIT, in conjunction with SUN Microsystems RFID Test Center at Pusan National University, has been established to support companies which are going to observe the RFID application plans. The SUN Microsystems RFID Test Center at Pusan National University has been built based on RFID Test Center in Dallas, but modified to suit the Korean environments. Allixon will also join this SUN Microsystems RFID Test Center to use it as an excellent test bed for the many companies which want to engraft RFID technologies to their business. About Allixon International Corporation Allixon is a leading provider of RFID middleware and mobile Internet solutions for device computing. Allixon combines its products, expertise, partnerships and integration capability into solutions for a wide range of device computing applications, including RFID middleware and m-banking solution. Allixon's products based on ubiquitous technologies direct companies looking to tap into the wealth of data captured by networked devices such as RFID readers or handhelds to extend the quality of information to any device where they want. 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------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C5D473.8A818A00-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 11:04:15 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESFUF-00019o-1T for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:04:15 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22065 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B3F1FE89; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:04:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A0F1FE12 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AA289854; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:03:05 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43566031.4070901@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:03:13 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks very good. One issue below (and I'm still working on the discussion you and Joe have had): >2.7. Lower Layer Naming > > Within the lower layer, the EAP peer and authenticator typically > utilize lower layer names to identify each other and define the scope > of cached keying material. However EAP methods treat lower layer > peer and authenticator identities as opaque blobs and do not > interpret them. For example, EAP peers cannot compare the lower > layer authenticator identifier with the Server-ID provided by the EAP > method, since these two identifiers will not be the same where pass- > through authentication is implemented. > > For the purpose of identifying the authenticator to the peer, it is > RECOMMENDED that the NAS-Identifier attribute be provided by the > authenticator to the peer, and that if AAA is enabled, that the > authenticator/AAA client include the NAS-Identifer attribute within > > Re: providing NAS-Identifier to the peer. Maybe. But are we sure this is really the identifier we want to use? RFC 2865 rules on NAS-Identifiers are sufficiently imprecise that NAS-Identifier usage practises probably vary. But is there a real reason why we must provide a recommendation is this space? I understand the need to quantify scope of caching, but presumably this could also be achieved in other ways. Re: including NAS-Identifier in Access-Request. This seems to be a weaker statement than what RFC 2865 already says: [Note 2] An Access-Request MUST contain either a NAS-IP-Address or a NAS-Identifier (or both). Or at least a different statement. > the Access-Request sent to the AAA server. In order to ensure > against forgery, it is RECOMMENDED that the peer and authenticator > securely verify the authenticator identity, such as via the Secure > Association Protocol. > > --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 11:08:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESFXy-0003GU-CE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:08:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22207 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE12D2024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:08:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F731FE8F for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A471389854; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:07:40 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4356614A.7040703@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Bernard Aboba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE690605607B@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE690605607B@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:07:54 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: >Hi Bernard, > >I think in general this looks pretty good. I have some comments and >questions: > >Section 2.3 > >- In paragraph 4 it states > >"In either case, it can be assumed that the parties do not utilize the >link to exchange data traffic unless their authentication requirements >have been met." > >Is there a reason why it is useful to assume this? I'm not sure that it >needs to be true (although I agree that it often is). > > I think it is a simplifying assumption that at least for me clarifies what the situation is when parties utilize the link for data traffic. But let me turn this around: can you cite an example where it would be useful to NOT assume this? >- in paragraph 6 > >It should also state that successful EAP authentication and key >derivation does not necessarily mean that the peer will be granted >access. There is typically authorization and resource allocation which >also must happen can could fail. This may be handled (or not handled) >differently by different lower layers. > > Right. >Section 2.5 > >- I thought we were deprecating IV, should we mention it here? > > Yes. >- Do we discuss key lifetime elsewhere in the document? I think it >needs more discussion and I'm not really crazy about exporting a value >called key lifetime from a mechanism, perhaps maximum-key-lifetime would >be better although I have reservations about that too since a key >lifetime may depend upon how it is used. > > I think we converged earlier on "lifetime is a system default". I'd rather not reopen that discussion. >- Is methodID defined elsewhere? Is it a value exported by the EAP >method that uniquely identifies a particular execution of the EAP >method? > > Appendix B. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 11:18:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESFhg-0007KD-35 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:18:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22600 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5BD2026B; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:18:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109951FE93 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E93889854; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:17:04 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4356637D.20706@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Bernard Aboba , eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69060560DB@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69060560DB@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:17:17 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote >[Joe] I agree that the same key should not be used for two different >purposes, however it should be possible for an implementation of a >"lower layer" to use a key to derive keying material to be used within >it's domain of applicability. These derived keys may actually be used >by different entities. Here is a possible revision to clarify this: > >" In order to preserve separation of keying material and security >considerations fort lower layers separate, > lower layers MUST NOT export keys passed down by EAP methods outside >their domain of control. This implies that EAP keying material or >parameters passed down to a lower layer are for the exclusive use of >that lower and MUST NOT be used within another lower layer for a >different purpose." > > I'm not sure this is precise enough. What does "domain of control mean"? That I can pass the key from WEP to something else, as long as I own all devices? Hopefully not... And "lower layer" is not precise either. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I have better text to propose! --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 11:29:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESFsV-0002w5-Q5 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:29:20 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23036 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41362024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:29:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6571FE12 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:28:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFE989854; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:28:49 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4356663F.9040800@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Bernard Aboba , aboba@internaut.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6906056390@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE6906056390@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:29:03 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Salowey, Joe wrote: >[Joe] A lower layer should not have access to the EMSK. Perhaps in >general AAA shouldn't either if it is treated just as a lower layer. > > Perhaps we could move forward on the AMSK/EMSK issue by looking at the constraints we are under: o RFC 3748 model, which I don't think we want to change o Desire to reserve EMSK for future uses, including uses that involve multiple devices (NASes) o Desire to keep different uses cryptographically separate from each other o Desire to avoid API and method changes We can also think about our goals with eap-keying vs. keying-extns. Are we specifying the way to get AMSKs or just the branching of the tree as a "reservation" for future use of AMSKs? If the latter, then we don't need to design the specifics of how AMSKs are accessed. So, one suggestion would be to say that (1) EMSK is exported from EAP methods, (2) EMSK shall not leave the device where it is derived, (3) AMSKs can be derived from EMSK and they can leave the device, (4) AMSK calculation rules ensuring cryptographic separation, and (5) the actual requests to create AMSKs and the applications are out of scope for eap-keying. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From trickling@wilkey.com Wed Oct 19 11:35:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESFyh-0006Bf-76 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:35:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23444 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESGAP-0006yO-De for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:47:50 -0400 Received: from p54a2e0cd.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.162.224.205]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ESFyY-00016d-Jx for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:35:34 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO Orr) (192.168.143.183) by p54A2E0CD.dip.t-dialin.net with SMTP; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:35:30 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <591798245.544142662@p54A2E0CD.dip.t-dialin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: eap-archive@ietf.org From: Benjamin Knight Subject: Now you can improve your sexual life! Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:35:34 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now you can diversify the acts in your bedroom! http://O'Dwyer.clinicmypills.info/?pillsxtvuytributeszvppreventive We must love one another or die. Act as if it were impossible to fail. Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. For certain people after 50, litigation takes the place of sex. We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 12:21:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESGgc-00013G-2g for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:21:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26474 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F182024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:21:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10601FE12 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1462D89854; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:20:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43567257.20802@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Issue: Deletion of Section 3 and Appendix F References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:20:39 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think I'll be missing these sections. Thanks, ---Jari Bernard Aboba wrote: > Given the topics now covered in Sections 1 and 2, it is not clear to > me that Section 3 adds much value > beyond what is already present. In looking it over, it lalso > appeared to me that much of Appendix F as well could either be deleted > entirely or incorporated into Section 2. > > Does anyone have a particular attachment to Sections 3 and Appendix F, > and if so, can you point out what portions of those sections are > essential, and need to be spared from the axe? > > > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 16:55:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESKxq-0003a5-8b for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:55:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA02869 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306DE1FE89; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:55:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav22.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.94]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B5C1FE12 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:54:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.197.179.22 by BAY106-DAV22.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:54:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.197.179.22] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: Cc: "'Jari Arkko'" Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <005d01c5d4ef$44358e80$8f1313ac@ntdev.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4356663F.9040800@piuha.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: AcXUwfL3XWZV9PzKSY61Jz5rA3ujtAALIfOg X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 20:54:15.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[4439AD30:01C5D4EF] Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:54:15 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Perhaps we could move forward on the AMSK/EMSK issue >by looking at the constraints we are under: I presume that you're talking about a future document, not the current key framework document, right? As I see it, we really only need to do a few things in the key framework document: a. Define the interactions between the EAP method layer, EAP authenticator/peer layer, EAP layer, and lower layer (including AAA). b. Define the EAP security model (e.g. the cryptographic assumptions). c. Derive the security requirements for the lower layer based on a) and b). d. Describe how current implementations behave (including lower layers). If we've do these things, then we can always build on that in future documents. However, it has turned out to be difficult enough to accomplish just these goals that taking on even more probably will make it even more difficult to finish. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 17:22:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESLNw-000440-15 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:22:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04621 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C17A2024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:22:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99E01FE15 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Oct 2005 14:21:51 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,231,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="221783366:sNHT26447444" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9JLLm94012029; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B1058@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Thread-Index: AcXUwpyLpQyUqhyhTf61K4Ka7ym2EQAL3Meg From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" Cc: "Bernard Aboba" , , Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:27:14 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think in the current document it might be wise to document as little about AMSK/EMSK as possible unless we want to take on the full task. Making use of the EMSK will probably require some changes/extensions to what we have already defined. =20 In the document we should not show the propagation of the EMSK and have a statement like the following (I'm not sure where it goes yet): "The EMSK is reserved for future usage. The EMSK itself should have limited exposure outside the EAP method. Instead of using the EMSK directly keys should be derived for application specific usage. This usage and specification is beyond the scope of the current document." Jari Arkko wrote: > Salowey, Joe wrote: >=20 >> [Joe] A lower layer should not have access to the EMSK. Perhaps in >> general AAA shouldn't either if it is treated just as a lower layer. >>=20 >>=20 > Perhaps we could move forward on the AMSK/EMSK issue by > looking at the constraints we are under: >=20 > o RFC 3748 model, which I don't think we want to change o > Desire to reserve EMSK for future uses, including uses > that involve multiple devices (NASes) o Desire to keep > different uses cryptographically separate > from each other > o Desire to avoid API and method changes >=20 > We can also think about our goals with eap-keying vs. > keying-extns. Are we specifying the way to get AMSKs or just > the branching of the tree as a "reservation" for future use > of AMSKs? If the latter, then we don't need to design the > specifics of how AMSKs are accessed. >=20 > So, one suggestion would be to say that (1) EMSK is exported > from EAP methods, (2) EMSK shall not leave the device where > it is derived, (3) AMSKs can be derived from EMSK and they > can leave the device, (4) AMSK calculation rules ensuring > cryptographic separation, and (5) the actual requests to > create AMSKs and the applications are out of scope for eap-keying. >=20 > --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 17:29:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESLUh-0000b4-5d for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:29:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05135 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB66C2024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:29:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60BCF1FE15 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2E889854; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:28:20 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4356BA81.3090106@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:28:33 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My e-mail was a response to the discussion you and Joe had about Joe's comments to 2.6. I agree that we want to keep eap-keying as small as possible. But I think the practical alternatives are saying that the key hieararchy ends at EMSK (and leave rest of keying-extns) or that the hieararchy ends at AMSK (and leave all applications of AMSKs to keying-extns). I'd prefer the latter, but I could be persuaded to go for the former, too. --Jari Bernard Aboba wrote: >>Perhaps we could move forward on the AMSK/EMSK issue >>by looking at the constraints we are under: >> >> > >I presume that you're talking about a future document, not the current key >framework document, right? > >As I see it, we really only need to do a few things in the key framework >document: > >a. Define the interactions between the EAP method layer, EAP >authenticator/peer layer, EAP layer, and lower layer (including AAA). > >b. Define the EAP security model (e.g. the cryptographic assumptions). > >c. Derive the security requirements for the lower layer based on a) and b). > >d. Describe how current implementations behave (including lower layers). > >If we've do these things, then we can always build on that in future >documents. However, it has turned out to be difficult enough to accomplish >just these goals that taking on even more probably will make it even more >difficult to finish. > > > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 17:31:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESLWg-00021h-Dl for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:31:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05301 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2A52024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:31:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1F71FE15 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Oct 2005 14:30:13 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,231,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="221786990:sNHT24601128" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9JLUA94015998; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:30:10 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B1065@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Thread-Index: AcXUv64sakHjWN/EQuKnVNlJBHQA1QAM9gYA From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" Cc: "Bernard Aboba" , Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:35:36 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Hi Bernard, >>=20 >> I think in general this looks pretty good. I have some comments and >> questions:=20 >>=20 >> Section 2.3 >>=20 >> - In paragraph 4 it states >>=20 >> "In either case, it can be assumed that the parties do not utilize >> the link to exchange data traffic unless their authentication >> requirements have been met."=20 >>=20 >> Is there a reason why it is useful to assume this? I'm not sure that >> it needs to be true (although I agree that it often is). >>=20 >>=20 > I think it is a simplifying assumption that at least for me > clarifies what the situation is when parties utilize the link > for data traffic. But let me turn this around: > can you cite an example where it would be useful to NOT assume this? >=20 [Joe] When there is no ciphering there are cases where some traffic maybe allowed on the link before authentication is complete. This could also be possible in the ciphering case that the peer and authenticator could allow certain types of traffic on the link, but I don't know any off hand. The text is probably OK as it is. =20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 17:33:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESLYY-0002xX-K6 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:33:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05455 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C162D2024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:33:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B32F1FE15 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8252D89884; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:31:12 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4356BB2D.7060404@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Salowey, Joe" Cc: Bernard Aboba , aboba@internaut.com, eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework References: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B1058@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B1058@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:31:25 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. This is alternative 1 from my previous e-mail. The other alternative is that we also specify how AMSKs are cryptographically calculated based on f(EMSK, AMSKid), but leave the definition of how this could be used for purpose X to keying-extns. --Jari Salowey, Joe wrote: >I think in the current document it might be wise to document as little >about AMSK/EMSK as possible unless we want to take on the full task. >Making use of the EMSK will probably require some changes/extensions to >what we have already defined. > >In the document we should not show the propagation of the EMSK and have >a statement like the following (I'm not sure where it goes yet): > >"The EMSK is reserved for future usage. The EMSK itself should have >limited exposure outside the EAP method. Instead of using the EMSK >directly keys should be derived for application specific usage. This >usage and specification is beyond the scope of the current document." > >Jari Arkko wrote: > > >>Salowey, Joe wrote: >> >> >> >>>[Joe] A lower layer should not have access to the EMSK. Perhaps in >>>general AAA shouldn't either if it is treated just as a lower layer. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Perhaps we could move forward on the AMSK/EMSK issue by >>looking at the constraints we are under: >> >>o RFC 3748 model, which I don't think we want to change o >>Desire to reserve EMSK for future uses, including uses >> that involve multiple devices (NASes) o Desire to keep >>different uses cryptographically separate >> from each other >>o Desire to avoid API and method changes >> >>We can also think about our goals with eap-keying vs. >>keying-extns. Are we specifying the way to get AMSKs or just >>the branching of the tree as a "reservation" for future use >>of AMSKs? If the latter, then we don't need to design the >>specifics of how AMSKs are accessed. >> >>So, one suggestion would be to say that (1) EMSK is exported >>from EAP methods, (2) EMSK shall not leave the device where >>it is derived, (3) AMSKs can be derived from EMSK and they >>can leave the device, (4) AMSK calculation rules ensuring >>cryptographic separation, and (5) the actual requests to >>create AMSKs and the applications are out of scope for eap-keying. >> >>--Jari >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 19 18:14:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESMCE-0005WD-Qd for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:14:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08045 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA9C2024F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:14:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav6.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.78]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DEF1FE15 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:13:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.197.179.22 by BAY106-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:13:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.197.179.22] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Salowey, Joe'" Cc: , Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <005e01c5d4fa$5b9b63f0$8f1313ac@ntdev.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4356BB2D.7060404@piuha.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: AcXU9LX4mSjZoEwDQluFJV+cyCC/uQABFX5A X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 22:13:39.0782 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BD97E60:01C5D4FA] Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:13:39 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I think in the current document it might be wise to document as little >about AMSK/EMSK as possible unless we want to take on the full task. I agree. >Making use of the EMSK will probably require some changes/extensions to >what we have already defined. RFC 3748 already defines the EMSK and specifies that it needs to be exported by the EAP method. >In the document we should not show the propagation of the EMSK and have >a statement like the following (I'm not sure where it goes yet): While I agree that we should not be adding material relating to the EMSK, we do have to be consistent with RFC 3748, which states that the EMSK is exported by EAP methods. This means that the EAP peer/authenticator layer (and presumably the EAP layer) will receive the EMSK. My current proposal is to state that the EMSK is passed down to the EAP peer/authenticator layer and EAP layer, but is never passed down to the lower layer, although keys calculated from the EMSK can be passed down to the lower layer if requested by the lower layer, as long as the EMSK itself is not exposed. >"Instead of using the EMSK directly keys should be derived for application >specific usage. This usage and specification is beyond the scope of the >current document." I think that some language specifying that the lower layer never receives the EMSK, or quantities from which the EMSK can be derived should do the job. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From gooslin@alltheplanet.com Thu Oct 20 05:03:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESWKs-00047w-O2 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:03:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA26053 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [59.93.66.151] (helo=alltheplanet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESWWk-0000DY-TY for eap-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:16:01 -0400 Received: from communist (192.168.7.172) by alltheplanet.com (Furcation xd 4.54) with SMTP id lCXmOA-sdCNnf-AS for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:03:18 -0500 Message-ID: <004201c5d555$19b29e80$ac07a8c0@communist> From: "Stelara Gooslin" To: "Cai Franck" Subject: Re: Pgharmcy Pro 4 you Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:03:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5D52B.30DC9680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5D52B.30DC9680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi VALLjUM Now $85,45 Ambbjen CjALLjS Now $99,95 Levjttra VjAGGRA Now $69,95 = Prropecja And many other Get More Detailed information Good bye --her, and she again commended him. 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------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5D52B.30DC9680-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 20 15:11:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESfol-0001k2-4V for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:11:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07474 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A58204A2; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:11:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA4A20438 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2005 12:10:27 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,236,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="354715135:sNHT624661374" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9KJANub000760; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:10:24 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B12D5@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] Re: Rewrite of Section 2 of the EAP Key Management Framework Thread-Index: AcXU9LX4mSjZoEwDQluFJV+cyCC/uQABFX5AACvyQeA= From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Bernard Aboba" , "Jari Arkko" Cc: , Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:15:51 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard, Comments/questions below >=20 > My current proposal is to state that the EMSK is passed down > to the EAP peer/authenticator layer and EAP layer, but is > never passed down to the lower layer, although keys > calculated from the EMSK can be passed down to the lower > layer if requested by the lower layer, as long as the EMSK itself is > not exposed.=20 >=20 >> "Instead of using the EMSK directly keys should be derived for >> application specific usage. This usage and specification is beyond >> the scope of the current document." >=20 > I think that some language specifying that the lower layer > never receives the EMSK, or quantities from which the EMSK > can be derived should do the job. [Joe] My concern with the above is that you may not want all of the authenticator to have access to the EMSK. You would probably want it to remain with the part of the authenticator that hosts the EAP server. =20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From uffsxjpulkout@thebmc.co.uk Thu Oct 20 16:33:32 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESh6S-0003RZ-7H; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:33:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA28272; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EShIH-000540-KX; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:45:47 -0400 Received: from c-24-9-112-133.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.9.112.133]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ESh66-0002z8-8g; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:33:10 -0400 Received: from dm22.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.20.155.222]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D84440045 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:33:05 -0800 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm22 Received: from mailweb38.everyone.net (172.20.155.222 [172.20.155.222]) by dm22.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm22.433b4707.a9ee2 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:33:05 -0800 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: SNRLo0dETABQrh5zBxAAAAI,93830ra2y11428m44u707318f10a0e7j Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:33:05 -0800 (PDT) From: Kenny Bean To: pilc@ietf.org Cc: eap-archive@ietf.org, iptel-request@ietf.org, ietf-info@ietf.org, sigtran@ietf.org, rohc@ietf.org, dhcwg-request@ietf.org, ietf-ipr@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Hi Reply-To: uffsxjpulkout@thebmc.co.uk X-Originating-Ip: [216.216.83.114] Message-Id: <20051085058740.1C898QM3@dm22.mta.everyone.net> X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. http://f1lrkski3o2dxxfqkff8kffx.scriptfc.info cleanup only through arianism bitternut and clonic through. elena cofactor keep juke that again saccade. anus discretion of diathesis I from hugh. autocratic yesterday by heaven cohomology enough much the. tomorrow damsel because transmissible hear. east o'er as diversionary please. insurmountable almost some celebes belief forward cauliflower well. argus once about agave there north choir. From bret@cableone.net Thu Oct 20 19:52:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESk9Y-0001E6-6m; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:48:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10422; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chello084115008175.wrn.surfer.at ([84.115.8.175]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESk4b-0002tf-K8; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:43:55 -0400 Received: by 10.11.98.3 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:28:07 -0600 Message-ID: <707t485e.5596415@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:28:07 -0600 From: "Erik Mead" User-Agent: Apple Mail (2.728) X-PGP-Key: dq3DWcP4uFi4CEZOqe8nny51YcmS4if2ozOigV8QqiWHPfMSdjzBPliCWMyzpqrd== X-Load: 54% MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dp@ietf.org Subject: Last chance for lower rates Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_71038691==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_71038691==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
not janitorial , dyadic not incongruity it chimeric , spew ! lang the algebra ! deft , nick some mansfield a delectable it angling the tropopause in insurgent Or maybe not

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Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f3.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.13]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8961FC28 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:28:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 04:28:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.182.139.247] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Oct 2005 04:28:28.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2B94C00:01C5D5F7] Subject: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:28:28 -0700 Jari Arkko said: "My e-mail was a response to the discussion you and Joe had about Joe's comments to 2.6. I agree that we want to keep eap-keying as small as possible. But I think the practical alternatives are saying that the key hierarchy ends at EMSK (and leave rest of keying-extns) or that the hieararchy ends at AMSK (and leave all applications of AMSKs to keying-extns). I'd prefer the latter, but I could be persuaded to go for the former, too." The EAP key hierarchy "ends" with the keying material passed to the lower layer. One attraction of passing the EMSK to the lower layer is that this implies that the calculation of AMSKs is purely a lower layer issue, and not something that the EAP layer needs to be concerned about. However, allowing the EMSK to be passed to the lower layer in some circumstances (stand-alone) but not in others (pass-through) violates the principle of Mode independence, so I don't think we can allow this. Of course, the transformation of the Method-ID => Session-ID and EMSK => AMSK within the EAP layer does imply functionality within the EAP layer that is not envisaged in RFC 3748, so we need to think this over a bit. Essentially we are saying that the EAP layer is shielding EAP methods from writing into each other's Session-ID space, guarding against compromise of the EMSK by lower layers, and in general becoming something of a "security policeman" for EAP. Joe said: "My concern with the above is that you may not want all of the authenticator to have access to the EMSK. You would probably want it to remain with the part of the authenticator that hosts the EAP server." In the case where EAP runs standalone, the EAP authenticator *is* the EAP server. In the case of passthrough, the EAP authenticator doesn't host the EAP server, although it is co-resident with the AAA client. So I guess I'm not understanding your comment. Maybe this has to do with the flow of keying material/attributes in the standalone case? In order to preserve mode independence, I think that the keying material needs to be processed the same way it would be if EAP were being run standalone. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From drews@gsm.uci.edu Fri Oct 21 02:24:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESqK1-000456-Jo for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:24:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29740 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syro374-isdn-a045.otenet.gr ([62.103.241.173] helo=gsm.uci.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESqVr-0002xe-4x for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:36:25 -0400 Received: from interlocutress ([192.168.152.18]) by gsm.uci.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:23:55 -0500 Message-ID: <006401c5d608$014f8c00$1298a8c0@interlocutress> From: "Polona Drews" To: "Waclaw Durant" Subject: Phaormcy Excellent News Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:23:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01C5D5DE.18798400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C5D5DE.18798400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable of Aristophanes, line 808. fed the one for his table and kept the other for = the sake of its Proppecja VALjUUM Now Only $85,45 Ambbjen Levjttra Proazac CjAALjS Now Only $99,95 VjAGRRA Now Only $69,95 UIttram Soama Xananax plus many other http://Orpheuslyp.minutacon.com Have a nice day --disguise of fictitious characters, by clothing with speech the water, and = traversed by a country road. 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If you have a problem, try Vjagrra, it is great http://www.hasenid.com From eap-admin@frascone.com Sun Oct 23 12:36:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETipL-00066Y-QV for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:36:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14250 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81D91FE0B; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDCBB1FC9C for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE5C89848; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:35:21 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <435BBBD6.5020207@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:35:34 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bernard, > Jari Arkko said: > > "My e-mail was a response to the discussion you and Joe had about > Joe's comments to 2.6. I agree that we want to keep eap-keying as > small as possible. But I think the practical alternatives are saying > that the key hierarchy ends at EMSK (and leave rest of keying-extns) > or that the hieararchy ends at AMSK (and leave all applications of > AMSKs to keying-extns). I'd prefer the latter, but I could be > persuaded to go for the former, too." > > The EAP key hierarchy "ends" with the keying material passed to the > lower layer. One attraction of passing the (I think there's still a distinction between ending as far as EAP is concerned vs. EAP keying framework document is concered. We do need talk about the use of keys beyond the EAP layer to have a system level analysis. But I'm reading on...) > EMSK to the lower layer is that this implies that the calculation of > AMSKs is purely a lower layer issue, and not something that the EAP > layer needs to be concerned about. However, allowing the EMSK to be > passed to the lower layer in some circumstances (stand-alone) but not > in others (pass-through) violates the principle of Mode independence, > so I don't think we can allow this. Yes. > Of course, the transformation of the Method-ID => Session-ID and EMSK > => AMSK within the EAP layer does imply functionality within the EAP > layer that is not envisaged in RFC 3748, so we need to think this over > a bit. Well, its really simple in theory. EMSK goes to entity X, which is in charge of handing it to different apps as AMSKs. Here "X" can not be "lower layer", because that would imply either that we send EMSK too liberally or that we treat lower layers differently (e.g., AAA server side and 802.11). But "X" could still be "EAP layer" which would imply additional functionality, or a new entity "EMSK manager", which is not the existing EAP layer nor is it the existing lower layer. > Essentially we are saying that the EAP layer is shielding EAP methods > from writing into each other's Session-ID space, guarding against > compromise of the EMSK by lower layers, > and in general becoming something of a "security policeman" for EAP. Yes. But lets not make this too generic. The specific needs that we have are: (1) Do not reveal EMSK to anyone. (2) Reveal specific AMSKs to only those that have the right to get it, with "reveal" and "right" being defined in future documents. (3) Avoid collisions for the EMSK ID keyspace. (MSK keyid space isn't used today, and is unlikely to be used in the future if we can sort out how EMSK is used, so it seems unnecessary to guard it.) > Joe said: > > "My concern with the above is that you may not want all of the > authenticator to have access to the EMSK. You would probably want it > to remain with the part of the authenticator that hosts the EAP server." > > In the case where EAP runs standalone, the EAP authenticator *is* the > EAP server. In the case of passthrough, the EAP authenticator doesn't > host the EAP server, although it is co-resident with the AAA client. > So I guess I'm not understanding your comment. > > Maybe this has to do with the flow of keying material/attributes in > the standalone case? In order to preserve mode independence, I think > that the keying material needs to be processed the same way it would > be if EAP were being run standalone. All existing key material is treated the same way. The treatment of EMSK and AMSK is something that we can fully understand only if we understand the whole system and its requirements. For instance, one view of how EMSK could be used is that its a value determined by the EAP server, which can be later requested to be used as a basis for a specific AMSK. For instance, if a standalone case there could be, say, a lower layer qos operation that requests a qos AMSK. Similarly, in the passthrough case the qos operation would request AAA to give the NAS a qos AMSK. The AAA lower layer would then request this from the EAP server at the server end. This would be very similar to what we have now: EAP delivers MSK, but in some cases that delivery is indirect through AAA. Given that we do not want to send EMSK to everyone, I think we have very small number of real choices here. We can debate what the name of the entity is that holds EMSK, but its not given to the lower layer as defined now. The lower layer as defined now (either AAA or 802.11) on the other hand can be used to make AMSK requests. And that second part is out of the scope of our document, so I think we would be fine by saying that the EMSK ends up in X (maybe EAP layer) and that it will be responsible for AMSK derivation and request processing in a tbd manner. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Oct 24 03:08:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETwRV-00086s-M8 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:08:25 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA20775 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D1C20437; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:08:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f25.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.35]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AECD1FC9D for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:07:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:07:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.182.139.247] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2005 07:07:39.0158 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E754B60:01C5D869] Subject: [eap] Resolution: Rewrite of Security Considerations Section Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:07:38 -0700 Here is the proposed rewrite of the Security Considerations Section, addressing Issues 279, 294 and 302. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. Security Considerations In order to analyze whether the EAP conversation achieves it security goals, it is first necessary to state those goals as well as the underlying security assumptions. The overall goal of the EAP conversation is to derive fresh session keys between the EAP peer and authenticator that are known only to those parties, and for both the EAP peer and authenticator to demonstrate that they are authorized to perform their roles either by each other or by a trusted third party (the AAA server). The principals of the authentication phase are the EAP peer and server. Completion of an EAP method exchange supporting key derivation results in the derivation of EAP keying material (MSK, EMSK, TEKs) known only to the EAP peer (identified by the Peer-ID) and server (identified by the Server-ID). Both the EAP peer and EAP server know the exported keying material to be fresh. The principals of the AAA Key transport exchange are the EAP authenticator and the EAP server. Completion of the AAA exchange results in the transport of EAP keying material from the EAP server (identified by the Server-ID) to the EAP authenticator (identified by the NAS-Identifier) without disclosure to any other party. Both the EAP server and EAP authenticator know this keying material to be fresh. The principals of the Secure Association Protocol are the EAP peer (identified by the Peer-ID) and authenticator (identified by the NAS- Identifier). Completion of the Secure Association Protocol results in the derivation of TSKs known only to the EAP peer and authenticator. Both the EAP peer and authenticator know the TSKs to be fresh. 5.1. Terminology "Cryptographic binding", "Cryptographic separation", "Key strength" and "Mutual authentication" are defined in [RFC3748] and are used with the same meaning here. 5.2. Threat Model The EAP threat model is described in [RFC3748] Section 7.1. The security properties of EAP methods (known as "security claims", described in [RFC3784] Section 7.2.1), address these threats. EAP method requirements for applications such as Wireless LAN authentication are described in [RFC4017]. The RADIUS threat model is described in [RFC3579] Section 4.1, and responses to these threats are described in [RFC3579] Sections 4.2 and 4.3. However, in addition to threats against EAP and AAA, there are other system-level threats worth discussing. These include: [1] An attacker may compromise or steal an EAP authenticator, in an attempt to gain access to other EAP authenticators or obtain long- term secrets. [2] An attacker may compromise an EAP authenticator in an effort to commit fraud. For example, a compromised authenticator may provide incorrect information to the EAP peer and/or server via out-of-band mechanisms (such as via a AAA or lower layer protocol). This includes impersonating another authenticator, or providing inconsistent information to the peer and EAP server. [3] An attacker may try to modify or spoof packets, including Discovery or Secure Association Protocol frames, EAP or AAA packets. [4] An attacker may attempt a downgrade attack in order to exploit known weaknesses in an authentication method or cryptographic transform. [5] An attacker may attempt to induce an EAP peer, authenticator or server to disclose keying material to an unauthorized party, or utilize keying material outside the context that it was intended for. [6] An attacker may replay packets. [7] An attacker may cause an EAP peer, authenticator or server to reuse an stale key. Use of stale keys may also occur unintentionally. For example, a poorly implemented AAA server may provide stale keying material to an authenticator, or a poorly implemented authenticator may reuse nonces. [8] An authenticated attacker may attempt to obtain elevated privilege in order to access information that it does not have rights to. In order to address these threats, [Housley] provides a description of mandatory system security properties. Issues relating system security requirements are discussed in the sections that follow. 5.3. Authenticator Compromise In the event that an authenticator is compromised or stolen, an attacker may gain access to the network via that authenticator, or may obtain the credentials required for that authenticator/AAA client to communicate with one or more AAA servers. However, this should not allow the attacker to compromise other authenticators or the AAA server, or obtain long-term user credentials. The implications of this requirement are many, but some of the more important are as follows: No Key Sharing An EAP authenticator MUST NOT share any keying material with another EAP authenticator, since if one EAP authenticator were compromised, this would enable the compromise of keying material on another authenticator. In order to be able to determine whether keying material has been shared, it is necessary for the identity of the EAP authenticator to be defined and understood by all parties that communicate with it. No AAA Credential Sharing AAA credentials (such as RADIUS shared secrets, IPsec pre-shared keys or certificates) MUST NOT be shared between AAA clients, since if one AAA client were compromised, this would enable an attacker to impersonate other AAA clients to the AAA server, or even to impersonate a AAA server to other AAA clients. No Compromise of Long-Term Credentials An attacker obtaining TSKs, TEKs or EAP keying material such as the MSK MUST NOT be able to obtain long-term user credentials such as pre-shared keys, passwords or private-keys without breaking a fundamental cryptographic assumption. 5.4. Spoofing The use of per-packet authentication and integrity protection provides protection against spoofing attacks. Diameter [RFC3588] provides support for per-packet authentication and integrity protection via use of IPsec or TLS. RADIUS/EAP [RFC3579] provides for per-packet authentication and integrity protection via use of the Message-Authenticator attribute. [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "integrity protection" security claim and [RFC4017] requires use of EAP methods supporting this claim. In order to prevent forgery of Secure Association Protocol frames, per-frame authentication and integrity protection is RECOMMENDED on all messages. [IEEE-802.11i] supports per-frame integrity protection and authentication on all messages within the 4-way handshake except the first message. An attack leveraging this ommission is described in [Analysis]. 5.5. Downgrade Attacks The ability to negotiate the use of a particular cryptographic algorithm provides resilience against compromise of a particular cryptographic algorithm. This is usually accomplished by including an algorithm identifier in the protocol, and by specifying the algorithm requirements in the protocol specification. In order to prevent downgrade attacks, secure confirmation of the "best" ciphersuite is required. [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "protected ciphersuite negotiation" security claim that refers to the ability of an EAP method to negotiate the ciphersuite used to protect the EAP conversation, as well as to integrity protect the negotiation. [RFC4017] requires EAP methods satisfying this security claim. Diameter [RFC3588] provides support for cryptographic algorithm negotiation via use of IPsec or TLS. RADIUS [RFC3579] does not support the negotiation of cryptographic algorithms, and relies on MD5 for integrity protection, authentication and confidentiality, despite known weaknesses in the algorithm [MD5Attack]. This issue can be addressed via use of RADIUS over IPsec, as described in [RFC3579] Section 4.2. As a result, EAP methods and AAA protocols are capable of addressing downgrade attacks. To ensure against downgrade attacks within lower layer protocols, algorithm independence is REQUIRED with lower layers using EAP for key derivation. For interoperability, at least one suite of mandatory-to-implement algorithm MUST be selected. Lower layer protocols supporting EAP for key derivation SHOULD also support secure ciphersuite negotiation. As described in [RFC1968], PPP ECP does not provide support for secure ciphersuite negotiation. However, [IEEE-802.11i] does support secure ciphersuite negotiation. 5.6. Unauthorized Disclosure While preserving algorithm independence, confidentiality of all keying material MUST be maintained. To prevent unauthorized disclose of keys, each party in the EAP conversation MUST be authenticated to the other parties with whom it communicates. Keying material MUST be bound to the appropriate context. [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "mutual authentication" and "dictionary attack resistance" claims, and [RFC4017] requires EAP methods satisfying these claims. EAP methods complying with [RFC4017] therefore provide for mutual authentication between the EAP peer and server. Binding of EAP keying material (MSK, EMSK) to the appropriate context is provided by the Peer-ID and Server-ID which are exported along with the keying material. Diameter [RFC3588] provides for per-packet authentication and integrity protection via IPsec or TLS, and RADIUS/EAP [RFC3579] also provides for per-packet authentication and integrity protection. Where the NAS/authenticator and AAA server communicate directly and credible keywrap is used (see Section 3.7), this ensures that the AAA Key Transport phase achieves its security objectives: mutually authenticating the AAA client/authenticator and AAA server and providing EAP keying material to the EAP authenticator and to no other party. As noted in Section 3.1, the Secure Association Protocol does not by itself provide for mutual authentication between the EAP peer and authenticator, even if mutual possession of EAP keying material is proven. However, where the NAS/authenticator and AAA server communicate directly, the AAA server can verify the correspondence between NAS identification attributes, the source address of packets sent by the NAS, and the AAA credentials. As long as the NAS has not shared its AAA credentials with another NAS, this allows the AAA server to authenticate the NAS. Using Channel Bindings, the EAP peer can then determine whether the NAS/authenticator has provided the same identifying information to the EAP peer and AAA server. Peer and authenticator authorization MUST be performed. Authorization is REQUIRED whenever a peer associates with a new authenticator. Authorization checking prevents an elevation of privilege attack, and ensures that an unauthorized authenticator is detected. Authorizations SHOULD be synchronized between the EAP peer, server, authenticator. Once the EAP conversation exchanges are complete, all of these parties should hold the same view of the authorizations associated the other parties. If peer authorization is restricted, then the peer SHOULD be made aware of the restriction. The AAA exchange provides the EAP authenticator with authorizations relating to the EAP peer. However, neither the EAP nor AAA exchanges provides authorizations to the EAP peer. In order to ensure that all parties hold the same view of the authorizations it is RECOMMENDED that the Secure Association Protocol enable communication of authorizations between the EAP authenticator and peer. In order to enable key binding and authorization of all parties, it is RECOMMENDED that the parties use a set of identities that are consistent between the conversation phases. RADIUS [RFC2865] and Diameter NASREQ [RFC4005] require that the NAS/EAP authenticator identify itself by including one or more identification attributes within an Access-Request packet (NAS-Identifier, NAS-IP-Address, NAS- IPv6-Address). Since the AAA server provides EAP keying material for use by the EAP authenticator as identified by these attributes, where an EAP authenticator may have multiple ports, it is RECOMMENDED for the EAP authenticator to identify itself using NAS identification attributes during the Secure Association Protocol exchange with the EAP peer. This enables the EAP peer to determine whether EAP keying material has been shared between EAP authenticators as well as to confirm with the AAA server that an EAP authenticator proving possession of EAP keying material during the Secure Association Protocol was authorized to obtain it. Typically, the NAS-Identifier attribute is most convenient for this purpose, since a NAS/authenticator may have multiple IP addresses. Similarly, the AAA server authorizes the EAP authenticator to provide access to the EAP peer identified by the Peer-ID, securely verified during the EAP authentication exchange. In order to determine whether EAP keying material has been shared between EAP peers, where the EAP peer has multiple ports it is RECOMMENDED for the EAP peer to identify itself using the Peer-ID during the Secure Association Protocol exchange with the EAP authenticator. 5.7. Replay Protection Replay protection allows a protocol message recipient to discard any message that was recorded during a previous legitimate dialogue and presented as though it belonged to the current dialogue. [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "replay protection" security claim and [RFC4017] requires use of EAP methods supporting this claim. Diameter [RFC3588] provides support for replay protection via use of IPsec or TLS. RADIUS/EAP [RFC3579] protects against replay of keying material via the Request Authenticator. However, some RADIUS packets are not replay protected. In Accounting, Disconnect and CoA-Request packets the Request Authenticator contains a keyed MAC rather than a Nonce. The Response Authenticator in Accounting, Disconnect and CoA Response packets also contains a keyed MAC whose calculation does not depend on a Nonce in either the Request or Response packets. Therefore unless an Event-Timestamp attribute is included or IPsec is used, the recipient may not be able to determine whether these packets have been replayed. In order to prevent replay of Secure Association Protocol frames, replay protection is REQUIRED on all messages. [IEEE-802.11i] supports replay protection on all messages within the 4-way handshake. 5.8. Key Freshness A session key should be considered compromised if it remains in use too long. As noted in [Housley], session keys MUST be strong and fresh, while preserving algorithm independence. A fresh cryptographic key is one that is generated specifically for the intended use. Each session deserves an independent session key; disclosure of one session key MUST NOT aid the attacker in discovering any other session keys. Fresh keys are required even when a long replay counter (that is, one that "will never wrap") is used to ensure that loss of state does not cause the same counter value to be used more than once with the same session key. EAP, AAA and the lower layer each bear responsibility for ensuring the use of fresh, strong session keys: EAP EAP methods need to ensure the freshness and strength of EAP keying material provided as an input to session key derivation. [RFC3748] Section 7.10 states that "EAP methods SHOULD ensure the freshness of the MSK and EMSK, even in cases where one party may not have a high quality random number generator. A RECOMMENDED method is for each party to provide a nonce of at least 128 bits, used in the derivation of the MSK and EMSK." The contribution of nonces enables the EAP peer and server to ensure that exported EAP keying material is fresh. [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "key strength" and "session independence" security claims, and and [RFC4017] requires use of EAP methods supporting these claims as well as being capable of providing an equivalent key strength of 128 bits or greater. AAA The AAA protocol needs to ensure that transported keying material is fresh and is not utilized outside its recommended lifetime. Replay protection is necessary for key freshness, but an attacker can deliver a stale (and therefore potentially compromised) key in a replay-protected message, so replay protection is not sufficient. The EAP Session-ID, derived from the EAP Type and Method-ID (based on the nonces contributed by the peer and server) enables the EAP peer, authenticator and server to distinguish EAP conversations. However, unless the authenticator keeps track of EAP Session-IDs, the authenticator cannot use the Session-ID to guarantee the freshness of EAP keying material. As described in [RFC3580] Section 3.17, When sent in an Access- Accept along with a Termination-Action value of RADIUS-Request, the Session-Timeout attribute specifies the maximum number of seconds of service provided prior to re-authentication. [IEEE-802.11i] also utilizes the Session-Timeout attribute to limit the maximum time that EAP keying material may be cache. Therefore the use of the Session-Timeout attribute enables the AAA server to limit the exposure of EAP keying material. Lower Layer The lower layer Secure Association Protocol MUST generate a fresh session key for each session, even if the keying material and parameters provided by EAP methods are cached, or the peer or authenticator lacks a high entropy random number generator. A RECOMMENDED method is for the peer and authenticator to each provide a nonce or counter of at least 128 bits, used in session key derivation. 5.9. Elevation of Privilege Parties MUST NOT have access to keying material that is not needed to perform their own role. A party has access to a particular key if it has access to all of the secret information needed to derive it. If a post-EAP handshake is used to establish session keys, the post-EAP handshake MUST specify the scope for session keys. Transported EAP keying material is permitted to be accessed by the EAP peer, authenticator and server. The EAP peer and server derive the transported keying material during the process of mutually authenticating each other using the selected EAP method. During the Secure Association Protocol, the EAP peer utilizes the transported EAP keying material to demonstrate to the authenticator that it is the same party that authenticated to the EAP server and was authorized by it. The EAP authenticator utilizes the transported EAP keying material to prove to the peer not only that the EAP conversation was transported through it (this could be demonstrated by a man-in-the-middle), but that it was uniquely authorized by the EAP server to provide the peer with access to the network. Unique authorization can only be demonstrated if the EAP authenticator does not share the transported keying material with a party other than the EAP peer and server. TSKs are permitted to be accessed only by the EAP peer and authenticator. Since the TSKs can be determined from the transported EAP keying material and the cleartext of the Secure Association Protocol exchange, the AAA server will have access to the TSKs unless it deletes the transported EAP keying material after sending it. 5.10. Man-in-the-middle Attacks As described in [I-D.puthenkulam-eap-binding], EAP method sequences and compound authentication mechanisms may be subject to man-in-the- middle attacks. When such attacks are successfully carried out, the attacker acts as an intermediary between a victim and a legitimate authenticator. This allows the attacker to authenticate successfully to the authenticator, as well as to obtain access to the network. In order to prevent these attacks, [I-D.puthenkulam-eap-binding] recommends derivation of a compound key by which the EAP peer and server can prove that they have participated in the entire EAP exchange. Since the compound key must not be known to an attacker posing as an authenticator, and yet must be derived from quantities that are exported by EAP methods, it may be desirable to derive the compound key from a portion of the EMSK. In order to provide proper key hygiene, it is recommended that the compound key used for man-in- the-middle protection be cryptographically separate from other keys derived from the EMSK. 5.11. Denial of Service Attacks Key caching may result in vulnerability to denial of service attacks. For example, EAP methods that create persistent state may be vulnerable to denial of service attacks on the EAP server by a rogue EAP peer. To address this vulnerability, EAP methods creating persistent state may wish to limit the persistent state created by an EAP peer. For example, for each peer an EAP server may choose to limit persistent state to a few EAP conversations, distinguished by the EAP Session- ID. This prevents a rogue peer from denying access to other peers. Similarly, to conserve resources an authenticator may choose to limit the persistent state corresponding to each peer. This can be accomplished by limiting each peer to persistent sttate corresponding to a few EAP converations, distinguished by the EAP Session-ID. Depending on the media, creation of new TSKs may or may not imply deletion of previously derived TSKs. Where there is no implied deletion, the authenticator may choose to limit the number of TSKs and associated state that can be stored for each peer. 5.12. Impersonation Both the RADIUS and Diameter protocols are potentially vulnerable to impersonation by a rogue authenticator. While AAA protocols such as RADIUS [RFC2865] or Diameter [RFC3588] support mutual authentication between the authenticator (known as the AAA client) and the backend authentication server (known as the AAA server), the security mechanisms vary according to the AAA protocol. In RADIUS, the shared secret used for authentication is determined by the source address of the RADIUS packet. As noted in [RFC3579] Section 4.3.7, it is highly desirable that the source address be checked against one or more NAS identification attributes so as to detect and prevent impersonation attacks. When RADIUS requests are forwarded by a proxy, the NAS-IP-Address or NAS-IPv6-Address attributes may not correspond to the source address. Since the NAS-Identifier attribute need not contain an FQDN, it also may not correspond to the source address, even indirectly. [RFC2865] Section 3 states: A RADIUS server MUST use the source IP address of the RADIUS UDP packet to decide which shared secret to use, so that RADIUS requests can be proxied. This implies that it is possible for a rogue authenticator to forge NAS-IP-Address, NAS-IPv6-Address or NAS-Identifier attributes within a RADIUS Access-Request in order to impersonate another authenticator. Among other things, this can result in messages (and transorted keying material) being sent to the wrong authenticator. Since the rogue authenticator is authenticated by the RADIUS proxy or server purely based on the source address, other mechanisms are required to detect the forgery. In addition, it is possible for attributes such as the Called-Station-Id and Calling-Station-Id to be forged as well. As recommended in [RFC3579] Section 4.3.7, this vulnerability can be mitigated by having RADIUS proxies check NAS identification attributes against the source address. While [RFC3588] requires use of the Route-Record AVP, this utilizes FQDNs, so that impersonation detection requires DNS A/AAAA and PTR RRs to be properly configured. As a result, it appears that Diameter is as vulnerable to this attack as RADIUS, if not more so. To address this vulnerability, it is necessary to allow the backend authentication server to communicate with the authenticator directly, such as via the redirect functionality supported in [RFC3588]. 5.13. Channel Binding It is possible for a compromised or poorly implemented EAP authenticator to communicate incorrect information to the EAP peer and/or server. This may enable an authenticator to impersonate another authenticator or communicate incorrect information via out- of-band mechanisms (such as via AAA or the lower layer). Where EAP is used in pass-through mode, the EAP peer does not verify the identity of the pass-through authenticator. Within the Secure Association Protocol, the EAP peer and authenticator only demonstrate mutual possession of the transported EAP keying material. This creates a potential security vulnerability, described in [RFC3748] Section 7.15. [RFC3579] Section 4.3.7 describes how an EAP pass-through authenticator acting as a AAA client can be detected if it attempts to impersonate another authenticator (such by sending incorrect Called-Station-ID [RFC2865], NAS-Identifier [RFC2865], NAS-IP-Address [RFC2865] or NAS-IPv6-Address [RFC3162] attributes via the AAA protocol). However, it is possible for a pass-through authenticator acting as a AAA client to provide correct information to the AAA server while communicating misleading information to the EAP peer via the lower layer. For example, a compromised authenticator can utilize another authenticator's Called-Station-Id or NAS-Identifier in communicating with the EAP peer via the lower layer, or for a pass-through authenticator acting as a AAA client to provide an incorrect peer Calling-Station-Id [RFC2865][RFC3580] to the AAA server via the AAA protocol. As noted in [RFC3748] Section 7.15, this vulnerability can be addressed by EAP methods that support a protected exchange of channel properties such as endpoint identifiers, including (but not limited to): Called-Station-Id [RFC2865][RFC3580], Calling-Station-Id [RFC2865][RFC3580], NAS-Identifier [RFC2865], NAS-IP-Address [RFC2865], and NAS-IPv6-Address [RFC3162]. Using such a protected exchange, it is possible to match the channel properties provided by the authenticator via out-of-band mechanisms against those exchanged within the EAP method. For example, see [I- D.arkko-eap-service-identity-auth]. It is also possible to achieve Channel Bindings without transporting data over EAP. For example, see [draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding]. In this approach the authenticator informs the backend server about the Channel Binding parameters using AAA, and the backend server calculates transported keying material based on this parameter set, making it impossible for the peer and authenticator to complete the Secure Association Protocol if there was a mismatch in the parameters. The main difference between these approaches is that Channel Binding support within an EAP method may require upgrading or changing the EAP method, impacting both the peer and the server. Where Channel Bindings are implemented in AAA, the peer, authenticator and the backend server need to be upgraded, but the EAP method need not be modified. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Oct 24 03:45:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETx1E-0001V8-NF for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:45:20 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA22642 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7A220437; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:45:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44881FC9D for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD12089848; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:44:16 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <435C90DD.1060306@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernard Aboba Cc: eap@frascone.com Subject: Re: [eap] Resolution: Rewrite of Security Considerations Section References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:44:29 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks good, thanks! A few nits inline: > 5. Security Considerations > > In order to analyze whether the EAP conversation achieves it security > goals, it is first necessary to state those goals as well as the > underlying security assumptions. > > The overall goal of the EAP conversation is to derive fresh session > keys between the EAP peer and authenticator that are known only to > those parties, and for both the EAP peer and authenticator to > demonstrate that they are authorized to perform their roles either by > each other or by a trusted third party (the AAA server). > > The principals of the authentication phase are the EAP peer and > server. Completion of an EAP method exchange supporting key > derivation results in the derivation of EAP keying material (MSK, > EMSK, TEKs) known only to the EAP peer (identified by the Peer-ID) > and server (identified by the Server-ID). Both the EAP peer and EAP > server know the exported keying material to be fresh. > > The principals of the AAA Key transport exchange are the EAP > authenticator and the EAP server. Completion of the AAA exchange > results in the transport of EAP keying material from the EAP server > (identified by the Server-ID) to the EAP authenticator (identified by > the NAS-Identifier) without disclosure to any other party. Both the > EAP server and EAP authenticator know this keying material to be > fresh. > > The principals of the Secure Association Protocol are the EAP peer > (identified by the Peer-ID) and authenticator (identified by the NAS- > Identifier). Completion of the Secure Association Protocol results > in the derivation of TSKs known only to the EAP peer and > authenticator. Both the EAP peer and authenticator know the TSKs to > be fresh. > > 5.1. Terminology > > "Cryptographic binding", "Cryptographic separation", "Key strength" > and "Mutual authentication" are defined in [RFC3748] and are used > with the same meaning here. > > 5.2. Threat Model > > The EAP threat model is described in [RFC3748] Section 7.1. The > security properties of EAP methods (known as "security claims", > described in [RFC3784] Section 7.2.1), address these threats. EAP > method requirements for applications such as Wireless LAN > authentication are described in [RFC4017]. The RADIUS threat model > is described in [RFC3579] Section 4.1, and responses to these threats > are described in [RFC3579] Sections 4.2 and 4.3. > > However, in addition to threats against EAP and AAA, there are other > system-level threats worth discussing. These include: > > [1] An attacker may compromise or steal an EAP authenticator, in an > attempt to gain access to other EAP authenticators or obtain long- > term secrets. > > [2] An attacker may compromise an EAP authenticator in an effort to > commit fraud. For example, a compromised authenticator may provide > incorrect information to the EAP peer and/or server via out-of-band > mechanisms (such as via a AAA or lower layer protocol). This > includes impersonating another authenticator, or providing > inconsistent information to the peer and EAP server. > > [3] An attacker may try to modify or spoof packets, including Discovery > or Secure Association Protocol frames, EAP or AAA packets. > > [4] An attacker may attempt a downgrade attack in order to exploit > known weaknesses in an authentication method or cryptographic > transform. > > [5] An attacker may attempt to induce an EAP peer, authenticator or > server to disclose keying material to an unauthorized party, or > utilize keying material outside the context that it was intended > for. > > [6] An attacker may replay packets. > > [7] An attacker may cause an EAP peer, authenticator or server to reuse > an stale key. Use of stale keys may also occur unintentionally. > > For example, a poorly implemented AAA server may provide stale > keying material to an authenticator, or a poorly implemented > authenticator may reuse nonces. > > [8] An authenticated attacker may attempt to obtain elevated privilege > in order to access information that it does not have rights to. > > In order to address these threats, [Housley] provides a description > of mandatory system security properties. Issues relating system > security requirements are discussed in the sections that follow. > > 5.3. Authenticator Compromise > > In the event that an authenticator is compromised or stolen, an > attacker may gain access to the network via that authenticator, or > may obtain the credentials required for that authenticator/AAA client > to communicate with one or more AAA servers. However, this should > not allow the attacker to compromise other authenticators or the AAA > server, or obtain long-term user credentials. > > The implications of this requirement are many, but some of the more > important are as follows: > > No Key Sharing > An EAP authenticator MUST NOT share any keying material with Can we make this more specific? "... any keying material derived by EAP ... "? > another EAP authenticator, since if one EAP authenticator were > compromised, this would enable the compromise of keying material on > another authenticator. In order to be able to determine whether > keying material has been shared, it is necessary for the identity > of the EAP authenticator to be defined and understood by all > parties that communicate with it. > > No AAA Credential Sharing > AAA credentials (such as RADIUS shared secrets, IPsec pre-shared > keys or certificates) MUST NOT be shared between AAA clients, since > if one AAA client were compromised, this would enable an attacker > to impersonate other AAA clients to the AAA server, or even to > impersonate a AAA server to other AAA clients. Maybe add "Proper management practises helps in achieving this." > > No Compromise of Long-Term Credentials > An attacker obtaining TSKs, TEKs or EAP keying material such as the > MSK MUST NOT be able to obtain long-term user credentials such as > pre-shared keys, passwords or private-keys without breaking a > fundamental cryptographic assumption. Add: Proper design of key derivation mechansms in methods achieves this. > 5.4. Spoofing > > The use of per-packet authentication and integrity protection > provides protection against spoofing attacks. Diameter [RFC3588] > provides support for per-packet authentication and integrity > protection via use of IPsec or TLS. RADIUS/EAP [RFC3579] provides > for per-packet authentication and integrity protection via use of the > Message-Authenticator attribute. > > [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "integrity protection" security > claim and [RFC4017] requires use of EAP methods supporting this > claim. > > In order to prevent forgery of Secure Association Protocol frames, > per-frame authentication and integrity protection is RECOMMENDED on > all messages. [IEEE-802.11i] supports per-frame integrity protection > and authentication on all messages within the 4-way handshake except > the first message. An attack leveraging this ommission is described > in [Analysis]. > > 5.5. Downgrade Attacks > > The ability to negotiate the use of a particular cryptographic > algorithm provides resilience against compromise of a particular > cryptographic algorithm. This is usually accomplished by including > an algorithm identifier in the protocol, and by specifying the > algorithm requirements in the protocol specification. In order to > prevent downgrade attacks, secure confirmation of the "best" > ciphersuite is required. > > [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "protected ciphersuite > negotiation" security claim that refers to the ability of an EAP > method to negotiate the ciphersuite used to protect the EAP > conversation, as well as to integrity protect the negotiation. > [RFC4017] requires EAP methods satisfying this security claim. > > Diameter [RFC3588] provides support for cryptographic algorithm > negotiation via use of IPsec or TLS. RADIUS [RFC3579] does not > support the negotiation of cryptographic algorithms, and relies on > MD5 for integrity protection, authentication and confidentiality, > despite known weaknesses in the algorithm [MD5Attack]. This issue > can be addressed via use of RADIUS over IPsec, as described in > [RFC3579] Section 4.2. > > As a result, EAP methods and AAA protocols are capable of addressing > downgrade attacks. To ensure against downgrade attacks within lower > layer protocols, algorithm independence is REQUIRED with lower layers > using EAP for key derivation. For interoperability, at least one > suite of mandatory-to-implement algorithm MUST be selected. Lower > layer protocols supporting EAP for key derivation SHOULD also support > secure ciphersuite negotiation. As described in [RFC1968], PPP ECP > does not provide support for secure ciphersuite negotiation. > However, [IEEE-802.11i] does support secure ciphersuite negotiation. > > 5.6. Unauthorized Disclosure > > While preserving algorithm independence, confidentiality of all > keying material MUST be maintained. To prevent unauthorized disclose > of keys, each party in the EAP conversation MUST be authenticated to > the other parties with whom it communicates. Keying material MUST be > bound to the appropriate context. > > [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "mutual authentication" and > "dictionary attack resistance" claims, and [RFC4017] requires EAP > methods satisfying these claims. EAP methods complying with > [RFC4017] therefore provide for mutual authentication between the EAP > peer and server. Binding of EAP keying material (MSK, EMSK) to the > appropriate context is provided by the Peer-ID and Server-ID which > are exported along with the keying material. > > Diameter [RFC3588] provides for per-packet authentication and > integrity protection via IPsec or TLS, and RADIUS/EAP [RFC3579] also > provides for per-packet authentication and integrity protection. > Where the NAS/authenticator and AAA server communicate directly and > credible keywrap is used (see Section 3.7), this ensures that the AAA > Key Transport phase achieves its security objectives: mutually > authenticating the AAA client/authenticator and AAA server and > providing EAP keying material to the EAP authenticator and to no > other party. > > As noted in Section 3.1, the Secure Association Protocol does not by > itself provide for mutual authentication between the EAP peer and > authenticator, even if mutual possession of EAP keying material is > proven. However, where the NAS/authenticator and AAA server > communicate directly, the AAA server can verify the correspondence > between NAS identification attributes, the source address of packets > sent by the NAS, and the AAA credentials. As long as the NAS has not > shared its AAA credentials with another NAS, this allows the AAA > server to authenticate the NAS. Using Channel Bindings, the EAP peer > can then determine whether the NAS/authenticator has provided the > same identifying information to the EAP peer and AAA server. > > Peer and authenticator authorization MUST be performed. > Authorization is REQUIRED whenever a peer associates with a new > authenticator. Authorization checking prevents an elevation of > privilege attack, and ensures that an unauthorized authenticator is > detected. Authorizations SHOULD be synchronized between the EAP > peer, server, authenticator. Once the EAP conversation exchanges are > complete, all of these parties should hold the same view of the > authorizations associated the other parties. If peer authorization > is restricted, then the peer SHOULD be made aware of the restriction. > > The AAA exchange provides the EAP authenticator with authorizations > relating to the EAP peer. However, neither the EAP nor AAA exchanges > provides authorizations to the EAP peer. In order to ensure that all > parties hold the same view of the authorizations it is RECOMMENDED > that the Secure Association Protocol enable communication of > authorizations between the EAP authenticator and peer. > > In order to enable key binding and authorization of all parties, it > is RECOMMENDED that the parties use a set of identities that are > consistent between the conversation phases. RADIUS [RFC2865] and > Diameter NASREQ [RFC4005] require that the NAS/EAP authenticator > identify itself by including one or more identification attributes > within an Access-Request packet (NAS-Identifier, NAS-IP-Address, NAS- > IPv6-Address). > > Since the AAA server provides EAP keying material for use by the EAP > authenticator as identified by these attributes, where an EAP > authenticator may have multiple ports, it is RECOMMENDED for the EAP > authenticator to identify itself using NAS identification attributes > during the Secure Association Protocol exchange with the EAP peer. > This enables the EAP peer to determine whether EAP keying material > has been shared between EAP authenticators as well as to confirm with > the AAA server that an EAP authenticator proving possession of EAP > keying material during the Secure Association Protocol was authorized > to obtain it. Typically, the NAS-Identifier attribute is most > convenient for this purpose, since a NAS/authenticator may have > multiple IP addresses. > > Similarly, the AAA server authorizes the EAP authenticator to provide > access to the EAP peer identified by the Peer-ID, securely verified > during the EAP authentication exchange. In order to determine > whether EAP keying material has been shared between EAP peers, where > the EAP peer has multiple ports it is RECOMMENDED for the EAP peer to > identify itself using the Peer-ID during the Secure Association > Protocol exchange with the EAP authenticator. > > 5.7. Replay Protection > > Replay protection allows a protocol message recipient to discard any > message that was recorded during a previous legitimate dialogue and > presented as though it belonged to the current dialogue. > [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "replay protection" security > claim and [RFC4017] requires use of EAP methods supporting this > claim. > > Diameter [RFC3588] provides support for replay protection via use of > IPsec or TLS. RADIUS/EAP [RFC3579] protects against replay of keying > material via the Request Authenticator. However, some RADIUS packets > are not replay protected. In Accounting, Disconnect and CoA-Request > packets the Request Authenticator contains a keyed MAC rather than a > Nonce. The Response Authenticator in Accounting, Disconnect and CoA > Response packets also contains a keyed MAC whose calculation does not > depend on a Nonce in either the Request or Response packets. > Therefore unless an Event-Timestamp attribute is included or IPsec is > used, the recipient may not be able to determine whether these > packets have been replayed. > > In order to prevent replay of Secure Association Protocol frames, > replay protection is REQUIRED on all messages. [IEEE-802.11i] > supports replay protection on all messages within the 4-way > handshake. > > 5.8. Key Freshness > > A session key should be considered compromised if it remains in use > too long. As noted in [Housley], session keys MUST be strong and > fresh, while preserving algorithm independence. A fresh > cryptographic key is one that is generated specifically for the > intended use. Each session deserves an independent session key; > disclosure of one session key MUST NOT aid the attacker in > discovering any other session keys. > > Fresh keys are required even when a long replay counter (that is, one > that "will never wrap") is used to ensure that loss of state does not > cause the same counter value to be used more than once with the same > session key. > > EAP, AAA and the lower layer each bear responsibility for ensuring > the use of fresh, strong session keys: > > EAP EAP methods need to ensure the freshness and strength of EAP keying > material provided as an input to session key derivation. [RFC3748] > Section 7.10 states that "EAP methods SHOULD ensure the freshness > of the MSK and EMSK, even in cases where one party may not have a > high quality random number generator. A RECOMMENDED method is for > each party to provide a nonce of at least 128 bits, used in the > derivation of the MSK and EMSK." The contribution of nonces > enables the EAP peer and server to ensure that exported EAP keying > material is fresh. > > [RFC3748] Section 7.2.1 describes the "key strength" and "session > independence" security claims, and and [RFC4017] requires use of > EAP methods supporting these claims as well as being capable of > providing an equivalent key strength of 128 bits or greater. > > AAA The AAA protocol needs to ensure that transported keying material > is fresh and is not utilized outside its recommended lifetime. > Replay protection is necessary for key freshness, but an attacker > can deliver a stale (and therefore potentially compromised) key in > a replay-protected message, so replay protection is not sufficient. Right. > The EAP Session-ID, derived from the EAP Type and Method-ID (based > on the nonces contributed by the peer and server) enables the EAP > peer, authenticator and server to distinguish EAP conversations. > However, unless the authenticator keeps track of EAP Session-IDs, > the authenticator cannot use the Session-ID to guarantee the > freshness of EAP keying material. I need to think about this some more. This worries me a bit. > > As described in [RFC3580] Section 3.17, When sent in an Access- > Accept along with a Termination-Action value of RADIUS-Request, the > Session-Timeout attribute specifies the maximum number of seconds > of service provided prior to re-authentication. [IEEE-802.11i] > also utilizes the Session-Timeout attribute to limit the maximum > time that EAP keying material may be cache. Therefore the use of > the Session-Timeout attribute enables the AAA server to limit the > exposure of EAP keying material. > > Lower Layer > The lower layer Secure Association Protocol MUST generate a fresh > session key for each session, even if the keying material and > parameters provided by EAP methods are cached, or the peer or > authenticator lacks a high entropy random number generator. A > RECOMMENDED method is for the peer and authenticator to each > provide a nonce or counter of at least 128 bits, used in session > key derivation. > > 5.9. Elevation of Privilege > > Parties MUST NOT have access to keying material that is not needed to > perform their own role. A party has access to a particular key if it > has access to all of the secret information needed to derive it. If > a post-EAP handshake is used to establish session keys, the post-EAP > handshake MUST specify the scope for session keys. > > Transported EAP keying material is permitted to be accessed by the > EAP peer, authenticator and server. The EAP peer and server derive > the transported keying material during the process of mutually > authenticating each other using the selected EAP method. During the > Secure Association Protocol, the EAP peer utilizes the transported > EAP keying material to demonstrate to the authenticator that it is > the same party that authenticated to the EAP server and was > authorized by it. The EAP authenticator utilizes the transported EAP > keying material to prove to the peer not only that the EAP > conversation was transported through it (this could be demonstrated > by a man-in-the-middle), but that it was uniquely authorized by the > EAP server to provide the peer with access to the network. Unique > authorization can only be demonstrated if the EAP authenticator does > not share the transported keying material with a party other than the > EAP peer and server. > > TSKs are permitted to be accessed only by the EAP peer and > authenticator. Since the TSKs can be determined from the transported > EAP keying material and the cleartext of the Secure Association > Protocol exchange, the AAA server will have access to the TSKs unless > it deletes the transported EAP keying material after sending it. > > 5.10. Man-in-the-middle Attacks > > As described in [I-D.puthenkulam-eap-binding], EAP method sequences > and compound authentication mechanisms may be subject to man-in-the- > middle attacks. When such attacks are successfully carried out, the > attacker acts as an intermediary between a victim and a legitimate > authenticator. This allows the attacker to authenticate successfully > to the authenticator, as well as to obtain access to the network. > > In order to prevent these attacks, [I-D.puthenkulam-eap-binding] > recommends derivation of a compound key by which the EAP peer and > server can prove that they have participated in the entire EAP > exchange. Since the compound key must not be known to an attacker > posing as an authenticator, and yet must be derived from quantities > that are exported by EAP methods, it may be desirable to derive the > compound key from a portion of the EMSK. In order to provide proper > key hygiene, it is recommended that the compound key used for man-in- > the-middle protection be cryptographically separate from other keys > derived from the EMSK. > > 5.11. Denial of Service Attacks > > Key caching may result in vulnerability to denial of service attacks. > For example, EAP methods that create persistent state may be > vulnerable to denial of service attacks on the EAP server by a rogue > EAP peer. > > To address this vulnerability, EAP methods creating persistent state > may wish to limit the persistent state created by an EAP peer. For > example, for each peer an EAP server may choose to limit persistent > state to a few EAP conversations, distinguished by the EAP Session- > ID. This prevents a rogue peer from denying access to other peers. > > Similarly, to conserve resources an authenticator may choose to limit > the persistent state corresponding to each peer. This can be > accomplished by limiting each peer to persistent sttate corresponding > to a few EAP converations, distinguished by the EAP Session-ID. > > Depending on the media, creation of new TSKs may or may not imply > deletion of previously derived TSKs. Where there is no implied > deletion, the authenticator may choose to limit the number of TSKs > and associated state that can be stored for each peer. > > 5.12. Impersonation > > Both the RADIUS and Diameter protocols are potentially vulnerable to > impersonation by a rogue authenticator. > > While AAA protocols such as RADIUS [RFC2865] or Diameter [RFC3588] > support mutual authentication between the authenticator (known as the > AAA client) and the backend authentication server (known as the AAA > server), the security mechanisms vary according to the AAA protocol. > > In RADIUS, the shared secret used for authentication is determined by > the source address of the RADIUS packet. As noted in [RFC3579] > Section 4.3.7, it is highly desirable that the source address be > checked against one or more NAS identification attributes so as to > detect and prevent impersonation attacks. > > When RADIUS requests are forwarded by a proxy, the NAS-IP-Address or > NAS-IPv6-Address attributes may not correspond to the source address. > Since the NAS-Identifier attribute need not contain an FQDN, it also > may not correspond to the source address, even indirectly. [RFC2865] > Section 3 states: > > A RADIUS server MUST use the source IP address of the RADIUS > UDP packet to decide which shared secret to use, so that > RADIUS requests can be proxied. > > This implies that it is possible for a rogue authenticator to forge > NAS-IP-Address, NAS-IPv6-Address or NAS-Identifier attributes within > a RADIUS Access-Request in order to impersonate another > authenticator. Among other things, this can result in messages (and > transorted keying material) being sent to the wrong authenticator. > Since the rogue authenticator is authenticated by the RADIUS proxy or > server purely based on the source address, other mechanisms are > required to detect the forgery. In addition, it is possible for > attributes such as the Called-Station-Id and Calling-Station-Id to be > forged as well. > > As recommended in [RFC3579] Section 4.3.7, this vulnerability can be > mitigated by having RADIUS proxies check NAS identification > attributes against the source address. > > While [RFC3588] requires use of the Route-Record AVP, this utilizes > FQDNs, so that impersonation detection requires DNS A/AAAA and PTR > RRs to be properly configured. As a result, it appears that Diameter > is as vulnerable to this attack as RADIUS, if not more so. To > address this vulnerability, it is necessary to allow the backend > authentication server to communicate with the authenticator directly, > such as via the redirect functionality supported in [RFC3588]. > > 5.13. Channel Binding > > It is possible for a compromised or poorly implemented EAP > authenticator to communicate incorrect information to the EAP peer > and/or server. This may enable an authenticator to impersonate > another authenticator or communicate incorrect information via out- > of-band mechanisms (such as via AAA or the lower layer). > > Where EAP is used in pass-through mode, the EAP peer does not verify > the identity of the pass-through authenticator. Within the Secure > Association Protocol, the EAP peer and authenticator only demonstrate > mutual possession of the transported EAP keying material. This > creates a potential security vulnerability, described in [RFC3748] > Section 7.15. > > [RFC3579] Section 4.3.7 describes how an EAP pass-through > authenticator acting as a AAA client can be detected if it attempts > to impersonate another authenticator (such by sending incorrect > Called-Station-ID [RFC2865], NAS-Identifier [RFC2865], NAS-IP-Address > [RFC2865] or NAS-IPv6-Address [RFC3162] attributes via the AAA > protocol). However, it is possible for a pass-through authenticator > acting as a AAA client to provide correct information to the AAA > server while communicating misleading information to the EAP peer via > the lower layer. > > For example, a compromised authenticator can utilize another > authenticator's Called-Station-Id or NAS-Identifier in communicating > with the EAP peer via the lower layer, or for a pass-through > authenticator acting as a AAA client to provide an incorrect peer > Calling-Station-Id [RFC2865][RFC3580] to the AAA server via the AAA > protocol. > > As noted in [RFC3748] Section 7.15, this vulnerability can be > addressed by EAP methods that support a protected exchange of channel > properties such as endpoint identifiers, including (but not limited > to): Called-Station-Id [RFC2865][RFC3580], Calling-Station-Id > [RFC2865][RFC3580], NAS-Identifier [RFC2865], NAS-IP-Address > [RFC2865], and NAS-IPv6-Address [RFC3162]. > > Using such a protected exchange, it is possible to match the channel > properties provided by the authenticator via out-of-band mechanisms > against those exchanged within the EAP method. For example, see [I- > D.arkko-eap-service-identity-auth]. > > It is also possible to achieve Channel Bindings without transporting > data over EAP. For example, see [draft-ohba-eap-aaakey-binding]. In > this approach the authenticator informs the backend server about the > Channel Binding parameters using AAA, and the backend server > calculates transported keying material based on this parameter set, > making it impossible for the peer and authenticator to complete the > Secure Association Protocol if there was a mismatch in the > parameters. > > The main difference between these approaches is that Channel Binding > support within an EAP method may require upgrading or changing the > EAP method, impacting both the peer and the server. Where Channel > Bindings are implemented in AAA, the peer, authenticator and the > backend server need to be upgraded, but the EAP method need not be > modified. --Jari _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From jocy05badu@walla.com Mon Oct 24 05:31:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ETyfs-0003nz-8r for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:31:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27106 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omail12.walla.co.il ([192.118.71.132]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ETysa-0003qn-3n for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:44:33 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:31:16 +0200 Received: from ([196.201.93.198]) by omail12.walla.co.il ([192.118.71.132]) with HTTP; Mon, 24 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(postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10849 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EC120485; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:55:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from vulcan.rsasecurity.com (vulcan.rsasecurity.com [216.162.240.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7D01FE10 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailx.rsasecurity.com by vulcan.rsasecurity.com via smtpd (for frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) with ESMTP; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:53:59 -0400 Received: from sdtihq24.securid.com (sdtihq24.na.rsa.net [10.100.8.152]) by hyperion.na.rsa.net (MOS 3.5.9-GR) with ESMTP id BHU10076; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rsana-ex-hq2.NA.RSA.NET (rsana-ex-hq2.na.rsa.net [10.100.8.51]) by sdtihq24.securid.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j9ODrspV007816 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rsana-ex-sm1.NA.RSA.NET ([10.80.211.17]) by rsana-ex-hq2.NA.RSA.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:53:54 -0400 Received: from localhost ([10.129.13.15]) by rsana-ex-sm1.NA.RSA.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:53:58 -0700 From: Magnus Nystrom Reply-To: magnus@rsasecurity.com To: eap@frascone.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: X-X-Sender: mnystrom@[10.80.211.17] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2005 13:53:59.0153 (UTC) FILETIME=[62114E10:01C5D8A2] Subject: [eap] I-D ACTION:draft-nystrom-eap-potp-03.txt (fwd) Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:54:29 +0200 (W. Europe Daylight Time) Dear All, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > Title : The Protected One-Time Password Protocol > (EAP-POTP) > Author(s) : M. Nystrom > Filename : draft-nystrom-eap-potp-03.txt > Pages : 76 > Date : 2005-10-14 > This document describes a general EAP method suitable for use with > One-Time Password (OTP) tokens, in particular tokens with direct > electronic interfaces to their associated clients. The method can be > used to provide unilateral or mutual authentication, and key material, > in protocols utilizing EAP, such as PPP, IEEE 802.1X and IKEv2. > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nystrom-eap-potp-03.txt Changes compared to version -02 include: -Use of the EMSK in session resumption. The reason for this is better security: Earlier the MSK was used, which meant that the EAP server as well as the peer had to store the MSK for future use, and an attacker which succeeded in compromising the MSK would be able to read current traffic. The EMSK is not used for session keys, so is not susceptible in this manner. -Switched name of the Token Serial Number TLV to Token Key Identifier TLV. This is for alignment with other OTPS documents. -Clarified usage of the NAK TLV and when it can be sent. -Allowed the "auth_addr" component in the OTP TLV to be the empty string. The reason for this is that sometimes the peer will be unable to retrieve the information needed for this component. -Clarified that peers must support protected mode. -Various editorial clarifications and corrections, including some to comply with requirements in RFC 3748. -Made the IV explicit in the Confirm TLV. -Introduced a Protected TLV that is to be used whenever TLVs need to be exchanged after mutual authentication (and key establishment) has occurred. The Protected TLV wraps ordinary TLVs. -Due to the last two changes above, the use of the EMSK, and the fact that there are EAP-POTP implementations, the protocol version had to be changed from 0 to 1. -- Magnus _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Oct 24 17:38:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUA1A-0002pv-F6 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:38:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA22547 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5CC204B2; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:38:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7751FE12 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Oct 2005 14:37:44 -0700 Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9OLbgUw020997; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:37:42 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B1949@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... Thread-Index: AcXV+MJz1ZYk3ggoQgKKJ6QjcJ0OigC6dhCQ From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Bernard Aboba" , Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:43:11 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Joe said: >=20 > "My concern with the above is that you may not want all of=20 > the authenticator to have access to the EMSK. You would=20 > probably want it to remain with the part of the authenticator=20 > that hosts the EAP server." >=20 > In the case where EAP runs standalone, the EAP authenticator=20 > *is* the EAP server. In the case of passthrough, the EAP=20 > authenticator doesn't host the EAP server, although it is=20 > co-resident with the AAA client. So I guess I'm not=20 > understanding your comment. >=20 [Joe] I look at the EAP-server as being a logical part of the EAP Authenticator. I am concerned about the EMSK leaving the AAA in the case where the EAP Server is in a different device that hosts the EAP Authenticator interface with the lower layer.=20 > Maybe this has to do with the flow of keying=20 > material/attributes in the standalone case? In order to=20 > preserve mode independence, I think that the keying material=20 > needs to be processed the same way it would be if EAP were=20 > being run standalone. >=20 [Joe] The EMSK should stay within the EAP server.=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Oct 24 17:43:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUA61-0005Xw-BI for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:43:09 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23038 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:42:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730CB204C5; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:43:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291C1204B2 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Oct 2005 14:42:12 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,245,1125903600"; d="scan'208"; a="223381990:sNHT84434946" Received: from E2K-SEA-XCH2.sea-alpha.cisco.com (e2k-sea-xch2.cisco.com [10.93.132.68]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9OLg78k018058; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:42:07 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... Message-ID: <7210B31550AC934A8637D6619739CE69061B194F@e2k-sea-xch2.sea-alpha.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... Thread-Index: AcXX8KvbAJahJxl6QzWMk2aW1luj+QA8qRRA From: "Salowey, Joe" To: "Jari Arkko" , "Bernard Aboba" Cc: Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:47:39 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If we want to shoe the termination of the EMSK hierarchy in the lower layer then we need to deal with the AMSK as Jari states. I think we do have enough detail about this that we can easily describe this. We will have to leave certain interfaces out of scope of this document. I could be happy with this approach.=20 Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net]=20 > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:36 AM > To: Bernard Aboba > Cc: eap@frascone.com > Subject: Re: [eap] The end of the keying hierarchy... >=20 > Hi Bernard, >=20 > > Jari Arkko said: > > > > "My e-mail was a response to the discussion you and Joe had about=20 > > Joe's comments to 2.6. I agree that we want to keep eap-keying as=20 > > small as possible. But I think the practical alternatives=20 > are saying=20 > > that the key hierarchy ends at EMSK (and leave rest of=20 > keying-extns)=20 > > or that the hieararchy ends at AMSK (and leave all applications of=20 > > AMSKs to keying-extns). I'd prefer the latter, but I could be=20 > > persuaded to go for the former, too." > > > > The EAP key hierarchy "ends" with the keying material passed to the=20 > > lower layer. One attraction of passing the >=20 > (I think there's still a distinction between ending as far as=20 > EAP is concerned vs. > EAP keying framework document is concered. We do need talk=20 > about the use of keys beyond the EAP layer to have a system=20 > level analysis. But I'm reading on...) >=20 > > EMSK to the lower layer is that this implies that the=20 > calculation of=20 > > AMSKs is purely a lower layer issue, and not something that the EAP > > layer needs to be concerned about. However, allowing the=20 > EMSK to be=20 > > passed to the lower layer in some circumstances=20 > (stand-alone) but not=20 > > in others (pass-through) violates the principle of Mode=20 > independence,=20 > > so I don't think we can allow this. >=20 > Yes. >=20 > > Of course, the transformation of the Method-ID =3D>=20 > Session-ID and EMSK=20 > > =3D> AMSK within the EAP layer does imply functionality=20 > within the EAP=20 > > layer that is not envisaged in RFC 3748, so we need to=20 > think this over=20 > > a bit. >=20 > Well, its really simple in theory. EMSK goes to entity X,=20 > which is in charge of handing it to different apps as AMSKs.=20 > Here "X" can not be "lower layer", because that would imply=20 > either that we send EMSK too liberally or that we treat lower=20 > layers differently (e.g., AAA server side and 802.11). But=20 > "X" could still be "EAP layer" which would imply additional=20 > functionality, or a new entity "EMSK manager", which is not=20 > the existing EAP layer nor is it the existing lower layer. >=20 > > Essentially we are saying that the EAP layer is shielding=20 > EAP methods=20 > > from writing into each other's Session-ID space, guarding against=20 > > compromise of the EMSK by lower layers, and in general becoming=20 > > something of a "security policeman" for EAP. >=20 > Yes. But lets not make this too generic. The specific needs=20 > that we have are: >=20 > (1) Do not reveal EMSK to anyone. > (2) Reveal specific AMSKs to only those that have the right to > get it, with "reveal" and "right" being defined in=20 > future documents. > (3) Avoid collisions for the EMSK ID keyspace. (MSK keyid space > isn't used today, and is unlikely to be used in the future if > we can sort out how EMSK is used, so it seems unnecessary > to guard it.) >=20 > > Joe said: > > > > "My concern with the above is that you may not want all of the=20 > > authenticator to have access to the EMSK. You would=20 > probably want it=20 > > to remain with the part of the authenticator that hosts the=20 > EAP server." > > > > In the case where EAP runs standalone, the EAP=20 > authenticator *is* the=20 > > EAP server. In the case of passthrough, the EAP=20 > authenticator doesn't=20 > > host the EAP server, although it is co-resident with the AAA client. > > So I guess I'm not understanding your comment. > > > > Maybe this has to do with the flow of keying material/attributes in=20 > > the standalone case? In order to preserve mode=20 > independence, I think=20 > > that the keying material needs to be processed the same way=20 > it would=20 > > be if EAP were being run standalone. >=20 > All existing key material is treated the same way. The=20 > treatment of EMSK and AMSK is something that we can fully=20 > understand only if we understand the whole system and its=20 > requirements. For instance, one view of how EMSK could be=20 > used is that its a value determined by the EAP server, which=20 > can be later requested to be used as a basis for a specific=20 > AMSK. For instance, if a standalone case there could be, say,=20 > a lower layer qos operation that requests a qos AMSK.=20 > Similarly, in the passthrough case the qos operation would=20 > request AAA to give the NAS a qos AMSK. The AAA lower layer=20 > would then request this from the EAP server at the server end. >=20 > This would be very similar to what we have now: EAP delivers=20 > MSK, but in some cases that delivery is indirect through AAA. >=20 > Given that we do not want to send EMSK to everyone, I think=20 > we have very small number of real choices here. We can debate=20 > what the name of the entity is that holds EMSK, but its not=20 > given to the lower layer as defined now. The lower layer as=20 > defined now (either AAA or 802.11) on the other hand can be=20 > used to make AMSK requests. And that second part is out of=20 > the scope of our document, so I think we would be fine by=20 > saying that the EMSK ends up in X (maybe EAP layer) and that=20 > it will be responsible for AMSK derivation and request=20 > processing in a tbd manner. >=20 > --Jari >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap >=20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From scventer@signumww.com Tue Oct 25 02:02:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUHt6-0006P4-Su for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:02:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA22256 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [220.231.120.39] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUI5u-000711-Em for eap-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:15:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5d928$8f898200$0100007f@localhost> From: "Tanner Hayes" To: Subject: Finally a Patch that works Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:01:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D928.8F898200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D928.8F898200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! 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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5D9CB.95846F00-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Tue Oct 25 21:52:10 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUaSY-0006UU-Sj for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:52:10 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA13140 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C30420384; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:52:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f10.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.20]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA55B202BA for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:51:54 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:51:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.134.193.124] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Cc: aboba@internaut.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2005 01:51:54.0784 (UTC) FILETIME=[D78EBA00:01C5D9CF] Subject: [eap] Review of draft-ietf-eap-netsel-problem-03 Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:51:54 -0700 Review of draft-ietf-eap-netsel-problem-03 Section 2 Finally, there is the the problem of "Payload routing" which "the the" -> "the" Section 2.1 A number of enhancements have been proposed to the Beacon/Probe Response mechanism in order to improve scalability and roaming performance. These include allowing APs to announce capabilities of neighbor APs as well as their own, as proposed in IEEE 802.11k; propagation of discovery information over IP, as handled in the CARD protocol developed within the IETF SEAMOBY WG, etc. One of the recently proposed extensions that probably should be mentioned here is the ability to support "hidden" SSIDs -- that is, SSIDs which can be queried in a Probe Request, but are never announced in a Beacon. Support for "hidden" SSIDs, has already been widely implemented. However, current support is problematic because a host does not know if an AP supports "hidden" SSIDs or not so that it will send unnecesary probes. In proposals under consideration within IEEE 802.11 this issue is addressed. Overall, support for "hidden" SSIDs allows a single AP to support dozens or even hundreds of SSIDs. " Figure 1 illustrates a situation where the user does not know whether he is connected to access network 1, which only serves the ISP, access network 3, which only serves the company, or access network 2, which serves both." I might add that "this situation is common with link layer protocols which do not provide discovery facilities, such as IEEE 802 LANs." " Finally, some EAP implementations use the space after the NUL character in an EAP Identity Request to communicate some parameters relating to the network requesting EAP authentication. While there is Standards Track RFC specifying the interpretation of the field beyond the NUL character, [I-D.adrangi-eap-network-discovery] is widely expected to be used." I would change this to: " Finally, some EAP implementations use the space after the NUL character in an EAP Identity Request to communicate some parameters relating to the network requesting EAP authentication. The use of this facility for the purpose of specifying supported NAI realms is specified in [I-D.adrangi-eap-network-discovery]." Section 2.3 Within the IETF ROAMOPS WG, a number of additional approaches were considered for this, including source routing techniques based on the NAI, and techniques relying on the AAA infrastructure. Given the relative simplicity of the roaming implementations described in RFC 2194 [RFC2194], static routing mechanisms appeared adequate for the task and it was not deemed necessary to develop dynamic routing protocols. One of the effects of this which is just now becoming appreciated is that because it does not participate in any realm routing protocol, a local AAA proxy may not know what realms are supported by downstream proxies with whom it communicates. These local routers, like access routers, typically only hold a set of routes along with the default, and unlike core proxies or routers do not have complete knowledge of the realm routing table. Therefore, just as a "ping" will typically not return an "ICMP network unreachable" error until it hits a core router, an Access-Request destined to an unroutable realm will often be forwarded until it encounters a "default free" proxy that returns a realm hint as specified in draft-adrangi. The implication of this is that there may be no easy way for a NAS to dynamically determine whether a given NAI realm is reachable or not. The implication is that schemes which probe a NAS about its NAIRealms support (such as via a Probe Request) may require that the NAS send a "ping" Access-Request with a User-Name of "anonymous@realm" in order to determine if the realm is reachable. This kind of request is explicitly called out as a bad idea in RFC 2865 Section 2.6 "Keepalives Considered Harmful." I'd suggest that some discussion along these lines be included in Section 2.3.1. Section 4.2 I'd rename this "IEEE 802" Also, I believe there are a number of new proposals that deserve further discussion here, such as the proposals for "hidden" SSIDs. Section 5 Work is already underway in IEEE 802.1, IEEE 802.21 and the IEEE 802.11u to provide enhanced discovery functionality. For example, IEEE 802.1ab enables network devices to announce themselves and provide information on their capabilities. Unfortunately IEEE 802.1ab announcements are only allowed *after* IEEE 802.1X authentication has been completed. Therefore .1AB is not relevant to the discovery problem. 7.1 Normative References This is an Informational RFC -- should it have normative references? 7.2 Informative References [I-D.adrangi-eap-network-discovery] Adrangi, F., "Mediating Network Discovery in the Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP)", draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-14 (work in progress), August 2005. [I-D.adrangi-eap-network-discovery-and-selection] Adrangi, F., "Network Discovery and Selection within the EAP Framework", draft-adrangi-eap-network-discovery-and-selection-01 (work in progress), March 2004. Do we need to reference both of these? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 26 01:49:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUe9q-0006e1-23 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:49:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24865 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC11C20391; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:49:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.14]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4434202BA for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:48:44 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:48:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.182.139.247] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Oct 2005 05:48:44.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED7A7090:01C5D9F0] Subject: [eap] IETF 64 Registration Cutoff Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:48:44 -0700 >From: IETF Registrar >To: IETF Announcement list >Subject: 64th IETF - Pre-registration/payment Cut Off >Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:06:29 -0400 > >The cutoff to pre-register and pre-pay for the 64th IETF Meeting in >Vancouver, >BC is this Wednesday, October 26 at 12:00 noon ET. If you do not >pre-register >and pre-pay by this time, you will need to register onsite in Vancouver and >pay >the onsite registration fee of $650.00 > >You can register on line at: http://www.ietf.org/meetings/notewell.html _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 26 02:36:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUetL-0006Zg-Mh for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:36:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26711 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBB620389; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2CE202BA for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A264589848; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:35:48 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <435F23D0.4080101@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Bernard Aboba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [eap] EAP WG agenda for IETF-64, take 1 Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:36:00 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please send additional agenda requests to either me or Bernard. Note that we intend to discuss EAP method related things in the EMU slot, not in the EAP slot. IETF-64 EAP WG Agenda Time: MONDAY, November 7, 2005, 0900-1130 Morning Session I (Opposite to apptsv, dnsext, grow, ccmap, pkix, ippm. Subject to change - there are ongoing requests from other groups that may affect EAP's slot.) Chairs: Bernard Aboba Jari Arkko PRELIMINARIES (10 minutes) Bluesheets Agenda Bash Document Status Open Issue Summary: http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/eapissues.html Presentations and agenda online at: http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IETF64/eap/ Keying Issues (60 min) Keying Framework (Bernard Aboba) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt - To appear - This document will be in WGLC once it appears - Discussion of last call comments and remaining issues, if any Keying Extensions (TBD) http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/EAP/draft-aboba-eap-keying-extns-00.txt - Discussion about what, if anything, we need to do here. Gauging community interest. EAP Network Discovery and Selection (25 min) Problem Definition (Jouni Korhonen) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-netsel-problem-03.txt - We would like to complete this document with respect to what is known in 2005, and publish it as an Informational RFC. - Jouni and Farooq have agreed to edit this draft. - Discussion of remaining issues. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From dginfo324@microsoft.com Wed Oct 26 03:39:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUfsO-0002M4-Q1; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:39:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00380; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510260738.DAA00380@ietf.org> Received: from [218.18.109.212] (helo=dginfo406) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUg5F-0007Sv-NK; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:52:46 -0400 From: xinyangpx@hotmail.com Subject: =?GB2312?B?zOHJ/bnYzvG53MDtt+fP1deozOK9stf5?= To: eap-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1A1B3.E2C7FE20" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:38:57 +0800 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: CSM 3.31 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-NONENGLISH: Subject contains non-English characters X-Scan-Signature: ccdc957a28db00b097f97a9ca58989e4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format --=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1A1B3.E2C7FE20 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =D5=E2=CA=C7=D2=BB=B8=F6HTML=B8=F1=CA=BD=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE/This is a htm= l format mail --=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1A1B3.E2C7FE20 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
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=D6=F7=B0=EC=B5=A5=CE=BB=A3=BA=C9=EE=DB=DA= =F6=CE=D1=F4=D7=C9=D1=AF   =B9=E3=B6=AB=C7=E5=BB= =AA=C5=E0=D1=B5       =BF=AA=BF=CE=B5=D8=B5=E3=A3=BA=C9=EE=DB=DA=B8=F1=C0=BC=B5=C2=B4= =F3=BE=C6=B5=EA   =B9=E3=D6=DD=B9=E3=B6= =AB=C7=E5=BB=AA=C5=E0=D1=B5=D1=A7=D0=A3
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=20   =B5=A5=CE= =BB=C3=FB=B3=C6=A3=BA____________________________  =C1=AA =CF=B5 =C8=CB=A3= =BA___________ =C1=AA=CF= =B5=B5=E7=BB=B0=A3=BA_________________

 

=B4=AB=D5= =E6=A3=BA__________   =D1=A7=D4=B1=C8=CB=CA=FD=A3=BA___________   =D1=A7=D4=B1=D0=D5=C3=FB=A3=BA____________________

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--=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1A1B3.E2C7FE20-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 26 08:32:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUkRq-0001GQ-IH for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:32:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15847 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60FF2023B; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:32:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from smtp2.enst.fr (revol1.enst.fr [137.194.32.27]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4338E1FD63 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC573164B84 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2.enst.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (revol1.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06345-01 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from infres.enst.fr (infres.enst.fr [137.194.160.3]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044C3164B64 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from DELL.enst.fr (dhcp164-213.enst.fr [137.194.164.213]) by infres.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31F813CC6 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:30:42 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20051026142041.03de78d8@infres.enst.fr> X-Sender: urien@infres.enst.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: eap@frascone.com From: Pascal Urien Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at enst.fr Subject: [eap] draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-03.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:30:35 +0200 Hi Everybody A new version of the draft " "EAP Smart Card Protocol (EAP-SC)" is available at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-type-03.txt This version take into account the remarks of the review of Glen Zorn, during the last EAP WG meeting in Paris Pascal _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Wed Oct 26 08:32:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUkRw-0001JG-0R for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:32:12 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15850 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E9520389; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:32:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from smtp2.enst.fr (revol1.enst.fr [137.194.32.27]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5DE51FD63 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2027164C46 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2.enst.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (revol1.enst.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06363-01 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from infres.enst.fr (infres-160.enst.fr [137.194.160.3]) by smtp2.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D75164C78 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from DELL.enst.fr (dhcp164-213.enst.fr [137.194.164.213]) by infres.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2026F13D09 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:20 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20051026142517.03e77788@infres.enst.fr> X-Sender: urien@infres.enst.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 To: eap@frascone.com From: Pascal Urien Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at enst.fr Subject: [eap] draft-urien-eap-smartcard-09.txt Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:31:13 +0200 Hi Everybody, A new version of the draft "EAP-Support in Smartcard" is available at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-urien-eap-smartcard-09.txt This last version includes corrected vectors for the EAP-AKA protocol Code sources are available at http://www.enst.fr/~urien/openeapsmartcard Pascal _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From gssmithuyxl@csg.net Wed Oct 26 09:29:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUlLj-0001i8-Th for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:29:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19508 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:29:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from n28.pro-internet.pl ([193.189.116.28] helo=193.189.116.28) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUlYj-0001cP-5C for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:43:26 -0400 Received: from mail.csg.net by 193.189.116.28 (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id DcoB5Z99jnPW2l for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:36:57 -0400 Received: from passamon ([47.73.20.121]) by mail.csg.net (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id Y6vHfHxMQH8qPd for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:36:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Josef Casey" From: "Josef" Message-ID: <2584053366.20051026083657@bjljmhszscj> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:36:57 -0400 To: Subject: Acrobat Pro 7.0 $69.95 AutoCAD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0f1ff0b0158b41ac6b9548d0972cdd31 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gou
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From brig@lacordee.com Wed Oct 26 14:09:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUpic-00086S-EO for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:09:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11199 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pa109.bytom.sdi.tpnet.pl ([217.96.197.109] helo=lacordee.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUpvm-0003ur-Mh for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:23:25 -0400 Received: by 192.168.170.79 with SMTP id meemUA-Fxqvms-pM; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:09:47 -0500 Received: by 192.168.236.196 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <004201c5da58$7253d100$c4eca8c0@onedecker> From: "Brigitta Michaud" To: "Tunc Martine" Subject: Re: Rafael - Amazing story Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:09:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5DA2E.897DC900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5DA2E.897DC900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a healthy 24 year old male, up to this point never had any problems = sexually. Well, after years of hard work, I got my dream girl - an insatiable crush = since my teens. Unfortunately, the pressure to perform became too much = initially for me to bear and I found myself not rising to the occasion as I = would have liked or as I have in the past. On the advice of a friend, I bought Vjjagra online http://www.extremeeco.info = and decided to give it a go. And WOW, incredible. I felt like a little pressure in my face, but all that = went to the wayside after I climaxed 4 times throughout the night. She even = had her first orgasm ever through intercourse! My anxiety is a thing of the = past and I am now back to my old self. All I needed was Vjjagra to help me tell myself "you can do it." = http://www.extremeeco.info ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5DA2E.897DC900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
I am a healthy 24 year old male, up to this point never had any problems = sexually.
 
Well, after years of hard work, I got my dream girl - an insatiable = crush since my teens.
Unfortunately, the pressure to perform became too = much initially for me to bear and I found myself not rising to the occasion = as I would have liked or as I have in the past.
 
On the advice of a friend, I bought Vjjagra online http://www.extremeeco.info and decided to give it = a go.
 
And WOW, incredible. I felt like a little pressure in my face, but all = that went to the wayside after I climaxed 4 times throughout the night. She = even had her first orgasm ever through intercourse! My anxiety is a thing of = the past and I am now back to my old self.
 
All I needed was Vjjagra to help me tell myself "you can do it." http://www.extremeeco.info
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C5DA2E.897DC900-- From baye@wti.com Wed Oct 26 18:50:00 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUu5k-0000Pt-KM for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:50:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02274 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 201-0-28-183.dsl.telesp.net.br ([201.0.28.183] helo=wti.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUuIx-0008Ft-C2 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:03:38 -0400 Received: by 192.168.34.148 with SMTP id gQhYNq-fAOnVP-mE; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:49:52 -0500 Received: by 192.168.73.153 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:49:52 -0500 Message-ID: <005601c5da7f$91198e00$9949a8c0@gardening> From: "Euria Bayes" To: "Fahmida Ariola" Subject: Re: Phillip - Just story Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:49:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01C5DA55.A8438600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C5DA55.A8438600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a healthy 24 year old male, up to this point never had any problems = sexually. Well, after years of hard work, I got my dream girl - an insatiable crush = since my teens. Unfortunately, the pressure to perform became too much = initially for me to bear and I found myself not rising to the occasion as I = would have liked or as I have in the past. On the advice of a friend, I bought Vjjagra online http://www.soresim.com and = decided to give it a go. And WOW, incredible. I felt like a little pressure in my face, but all that = went to the wayside after I climaxed 4 times throughout the night. She even = had her first orgasm ever through intercourse! My anxiety is a thing of the = past and I am now back to my old self. All I needed was Vjjagra to help me tell myself "you can do it." = http://www.soresim.com ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C5DA55.A8438600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
I am a healthy 24 year old male, up to this point never had any problems = sexually.
 
Well, after years of hard work, I got my dream girl - an insatiable = crush since my teens.
Unfortunately, the pressure to perform became too = much initially for me to bear and I found myself not rising to the occasion = as I would have liked or as I have in the past.
 
On the advice of a friend, I bought Vjjagra online http://www.soresim.com and decided to give it a = go.
 
And WOW, incredible. I felt like a little pressure in my face, but all = that went to the wayside after I climaxed 4 times throughout the night. She = even had her first orgasm ever through intercourse! My anxiety is a thing of = the past and I am now back to my old self.
 
All I needed was Vjjagra to help me tell myself "you can do it." http://www.soresim.com
------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C5DA55.A8438600-- From mikedougg@naveganas.com Wed Oct 26 19:32:31 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUukx-0005ZD-2O for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:32:31 -0400 Received: from maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar (maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar [200.55.6.132]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA22573 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar by maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) id <0IOZ00801PRF18@maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar> (original mail from mikedougg@naveganas.com) for eap-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:19:51 -0300 (GMT) Received: from dc-host.net.ar (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IOZ003DMQ4ZY9@maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar>; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:19:50 -0300 (GMT) Received: from [81.199.108.71] by maildcarg1.dc-host.net.ar (mshttpd); Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:19:47 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:19:47 -0700 From: "Micheal Douglas (mikedougg)" Subject: Obeying God. Reply-to: mikedouggg1950@yahoo.de Message-id: <18ce9618cc4e.18cc4e18ce96@dc-host.net.ar> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: es Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: es Priority: normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Fellow Believer, Greetings in the name of our lord Jesus Christ. To God be the Glory that I received Christ. Having known the truth, I had no choice than to do what is lawful and right in the sight of God for eternal life and in the sight of man for witness of God's mercy and glory upon my life. I have the pleasure to share my testimony with you; I am Mr. Micheal Douglas, the Personal Lawyer of late Mr. Protasov Salenko, a Russian that lived in my Country Nigeria for 20 years before he died in the plane crash last year. He was a very good Christian, he is so dedicated to God but he was not married nor had any child till He died, may His soul rest in peace, Amen. Throughout His stay in my country, he acquired a lot of properties like lands, house properties, etc. As his legal adviser, before his death, Mr. Protasov Salenko, instructed me to write his WILL, because he had no child, he dedicated his wealth to God. According to the WILL, the properties have to be sold and the money be given out to a ministry or individual for the work of God. As his legal adviser, all the documents for the properties were in my care. He gave me the authority to sell the properties and give out the fund to a Ministry or individual for the work of God. In short, I sold all the properties after His death, as instructed by Mr. Protasov Salenko before he died. And as matter of fact, after I sold all his properties, I realized up to USD$6,000,000.00 (Six million US dollars). The total amount will be invested into God's work as instructed by the original owner. But Instead of giving the fund out for the work of God as instructed to me by the owner before his death, I converted the fund to myself with the intention of investing the fund abroad for my personal use. I was afraid of putting the fund in the Bank, because I have to give account to the bank on how I got the money. I then packaged the fund in two Trunk Boxes and deposited the Trunk Boxes with a security company here in Nigeria. I did not want the management of the Security Company to know the content of the Trunk Boxes; therefore I registered the content of the Trunk Boxes as Family Treasure. Now the security company believes that what I deposited with them was Family Treasure. I had a turnaround in my life few weeks ago, when I was watching a program on television. The name of the program is HOSSANA HOUR, and the man of God was preaching concerning Ananias and Saphira in Acts 5:1-11. After hearing the word of God, I gave my life to Christ and became a born again Christian. As a born again Christian, I started reading my bible and one day, the Lord opened my eyes to Ezekiel 33: 18 and 19 where the word of God says: "When the righteous truth from his righteousness, and committee iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby". From the scripture, I discovered that the only way I could have peace in my life is to do what is lawful and right by giving out the fund as instructed for the work of God by the owner before his death. I have asked God for forgiveness and I know that God have forgiven me. But I have to do what is lawful and right in the sight of God by giving out the fund to the chosen ministry or individual, for the purpose of God's work as instructed by the owner before his death. After my fasting and prayers, I asked God to make his choice and direct me to a honest Christian or the chosen one that deserves this fund by his Grace. I then came across your address on the Internet as I was browsing through a marvelous site, and as a matter of fact, it is not only you that I picked on the site initially, but after my fervent prayer over it, then you were nominated to me through divine revelation from God, so these are how I received such a divine revelation from the Lord, and I then decided to contact you for the fund to be used wisely for things that will glorify the name of God. I have notified the Security Company where I deposited the Trunk Boxes that contained the fund, that I am moving the Trunk Boxes abroad, and the security company has since been waiting for my authority for the Trunk Boxes to leave my country. So if you know that you will use this fund honestly for God's work, then do contact me back immediately Waiting for your response. Yours Sincerely, Brother Micheal Douglas. From BJPQB@horton-stephens.com Wed Oct 26 23:27:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUyQY-0006LB-UQ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:27:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19051; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUydp-00057V-60; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:41:26 -0400 Received: from 61-228-183-149.dynamic.hinet.net ([61.228.183.149]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EUyQM-00004z-CF; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:27:31 -0400 X-Message-Info: D174GR54VDecdqf835wHimMAT92IV73iseEZxkxGL51 Received: from dns059thefragile.com ([212.131.102.195]) by uh6-71262281.BJPQB@horton-stephens.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3316); Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:29:28 -0800 Received: (from danube@localhost) by heckman3.BJPQB@horton-stephens.com (5.86.2/1.70.7) id o518WgT2114; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:29:28 -0800 Message-ID: <8447838762.33391@BJPQB@horton-stephens.com> Reply-To: "Bertie Hoover" From: "Bertie Hoover" To: "Policy-request" Subject: looking for you Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:29:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--041668012394047" X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 ----041668012394047 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-9634-2" Content-Description: embassy viola8.broad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello my hope! 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See you soon ----041668012394047-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 27 04:01:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EV2h8-0004B7-LU for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:01:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA14228 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330A820442; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:01:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7A3202A3 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 04:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8980D89871; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:00:27 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43608927.3000007@piuha.net> From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Bernard Aboba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:00:39 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a Working Group Last Call announcement for draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt which is now available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt This last call ends on Nov 30th, 2005 (longer than usual to accommodate for IETF and IEEE meetings and leave time for detailed security review). Please review this document and post your comments to the EAP WG mailing list. Jari Arkko Bernard Aboba EAP WG co-chairs _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 27 17:07:11 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVExr-0007PS-JY for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:07:11 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17423 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E85204CB; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:07:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from motgate8.mot.com (motgate8.mot.com [129.188.136.8]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874601FFF4 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j9RLIYtH025464 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm70.ds.mot.com (de01exm70.am.mot.com [10.176.8.26]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j9RLEeJo024009 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:14:40 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap]: questions on AAA key management draft Thread-Index: AcTLLMLyY3Yk01KSRb21oBIfQsqBdkQBnAhg From: "Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1" To: "Bernard Aboba" , Cc: "Russ Housley" Subject: [eap] [eap]: questions on AAA key management draft Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:06:20 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I just spent a bit of time going through the AAA key management draft (V00) and have the following comments. First of all I appreciate Bernard and Russ providing guidance for the community and am wondering if there is a plan for sequels? And I don't know which WG this draft was targeted for? AAA WG maybe? And I apologize if I don't have the history on this draft. I am drawing parallels between this draft and EAP keying drafts based on the following (may that is not the intention). The draft provides a lot of history for why EAP came about, and talks about combination of EAP and RADIUS, as well as EAP methods and post EAP handshakes, it does sort of confirm the impression that it wants to talk about key management using EAP and AAA protocols. However, I think the following would lead to improvement 1)the draft could be more clear when it deals with a AAA process and when it deals with an EAP process 1a)Initially picking up the draft with excitement I thought the draft is talking about management of THE "AAA-key" produced as a result of EAP process (sort of what EAP key management draft is defining). Ironically that is the first thing that is sort of confusing. So "AAA assisted key management" might be a good alternative!? 1b) distinction between EAP server and AAA server. Distinction between what is done by AAA protocol and what is done by EAP. For instance: 1c) It talks about key caching but it would be nice if it included where keys should or should not be cached (AAA server, AAA client, EAP authenticator, EAP server etc.) Some of this is covered in EAP RFCs or the new keying drafts, but others are not, simply because RADIUS RFCs where written before EAP ones. It is becoming harder and harder to find a one-stop shop for advice or spec to find the rules or point people to in debates. Even then a lot of hair splitting between various documents is required. 1d) "replay detection mechanism: AAA key mgmt protocol exchanges MUST be replay protected" Is the draft proposing ways to fix AAA (RADIUS or Diameter) messaging? EAP messaging? Or only attributes that deal with key management, I would think the latter. Other comments: 2) Not initially very clear what is meant by "session keys" in "strong, fresh requirement", I am assuming we mean keys that are produced as part of session association protocol (SAP), since the subsection later talks about post-EAP handshakes. However, one paragraph does talk about keys derived by EAP methods, so not sure if MSK, EMSK, AAA key needs to be fresh, or Tasks or all. Given that the draft recognizes the definition of SAP, using both SAP and post-EAP handshake can be pretty confusing. 3) More guidance on key scope is appreciated. For instance the scope of key is defined by using the "least privilege" principle. From the point of key derivation (who has the master key and the material to derive further keys), I think this is clear to some extent, but since this document advertises as providing guidance for AAA-based key management, I think guidance on how it is possible (or not) for the AAA infrastructure to control the key scope is useful. I have combing through a lot of EAP keying material in the past year, I still have not understood how much control the AAA server can exert on the key scope and hierarchy (who can create what key from what, is AAA server aware of SAP? Should it be?) 4) Key material confidentiality: Is nonce not considered as keying material. If SAP (or post-EAP handshake) uses nonces, I did not think they did not need to stay confidential?=20 My final but not least important comment is that a lot of SDOs are starting to use AAA key management mechanisms (using your terminology) to provide security for mobile environments and in the absence of clear guidance are creating a number of procedures that this very draft is stating to want to avoid. Would it not really be helpful if this draft provided more guidance for this densely populated category of people? i.e. guidance on how to do use AAA-based key management mechanisms to support handovers? For instance it is not clear from the draft and its=20 "prevention of Domino effect/ keying material confidentiality" requirements whether context transfer of keying material from one authenticator to the next for support of fast mobility ruled out? Would we violate principle of least privilege even though we only move MSK between authenticator? Or the post EAP keys between BSs (consider 802.16 model). Thanks, Madjid Nakhjiri _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Thu Oct 27 19:11:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVGto-0005cA-QG for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:11:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26029 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC8F204CD; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:11:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f13.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.23]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66CE61FFF4 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:10:31 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:10:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [131.107.0.89] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Oct 2005 23:10:31.0523 (UTC) FILETIME=[A0B5DB30:01C5DB4B] Subject: [eap] Re: [eap]: questions on AAA key management draft Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:10:30 -0700 >First of all I appreciate Bernard and Russ providing guidance for the >community and am wondering if there is a plan for sequels? And I don't >know which WG this draft was targeted for? AAA WG maybe? The document was intended to provide guidance for the IETF as a whole, though it originated from a talk that Russ gave in the AAA WG at IETF 56. >I am drawing parallels >between this draft and EAP keying drafts based on the following (may >that is not the intention). At the point when Russ gave his talk at IETF 56, no IETF specification involving AAA-based key management had ever been approved for publication as an IETF Proposed Standard, though many had tried. Therefore one of the key questions that we were trying to answer was "What is the bar for AAA-based key management proposals seeking approval?" The "AAA Key Management" document attempts to describe the requirements that specifications need to meet in order to be published as IETF Proposed Standards. Since the requirements are generic, they apply to the EAP Key Framework document as well as any other document. Specifically, in order to enable its publication, the EAP Key Framework document needs to demonstrate that EAP, along with AAA and Secure Association Protocols, can meet the requirements described in the document. Note that the details of that proof are out of scope of the "AAA Key Management Requirements" document, but very much in scope for the EAP Key Framework document. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From D.cupric@adhocpipe.com Thu Oct 27 19:39:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVHLS-00075K-QX; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:39:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA27308; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510272339.TAA27308@ietf.org> Received: from c-24-20-255-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net ([24.20.255.46] helo=DM) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EVHYr-0005mb-H9; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:53:36 -0400 Received: from 128.212.34.94 by ip-B34-7-65-44B.lmo.D.cupric@adhocpipe.com (AppleMailServer 69.C.4.1) id E138C63D589A9B via NDR; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:36:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Victor Stapleton" From: "Victor Stapleton" To: "Diffserv-interest-admin" Subject: a "fake" digree is better than none at all Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:33:21 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--BD4CEC2A590DF341E97" X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 ----BD4CEC2A590DF341E97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How many more promotions must you pass up before you realise that you need= a Diplom(a)? http://www.ReWaRdExPeRiEnCe.InFo to manage your subscription settings : http://www.REWARDexperience.INFO There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brig= hten it everywhere.=20 ----BD4CEC2A590DF341E97-- From ontology@nysportsfans.com Fri Oct 28 01:24:02 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVMig-0006JM-EE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:24:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA21284 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-24-4-178-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([24.4.178.139] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EVMw5-0000PT-Nr for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:37:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5db7e$cd7fe380$0100007f@localhost> From: "Amir Howard" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? 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------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5DB84.93194500-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 28 12:38:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVXF7-0000LB-77 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:38:13 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27907 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F36AD204E7; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:38:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from motgate7.mot.com (motgate7.mot.com [129.188.136.7]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39CB204E3 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from az33exr01.mot.com ([10.64.251.231]) by motgate7.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j9SH0Qeo003785 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:00:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm70.ds.mot.com (de01exm70.am.mot.com [10.176.8.26]) by az33exr01.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j9SGntxu021411 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:49:56 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Thread-Index: AcXazJkzCGwRebIPSh+tOcBH8CX2ggBDdlbw From: "Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1" To: "Jari Arkko" , Cc: "Bernard Aboba" Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:37:02 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I started reading the V08 draft and having the hindsight of some very recent issues we are dealing with in other SDOs, I have some comments on what I have read so far (the first 6 pages :) ) ***I think the terminology section needs some more clarification on the distinction of a backend authentication server/AAA server and EAP server, given that the draft says: "the terms "AAA server" and "backend authentication server" are used interchangeably." Honestly, I think the draft might as well say "the terms AAA server, EAP sever and backend authentication server are used interchangeably" Backend authentication server A backend authentication server is an entity that provides an authentication service to an authenticator. When used, this server typically executes EAP methods for the authenticator. This terminology is also used in [IEEE-802.1X]. I think the definition of "this server typically executes EAP methods for the authenticator" should be added to the definition of EAP server. Here instead we may say that "the backend authentication server typically includes EAP server functionality". The way it is, the text is adding EAP server function to the backend authentication server definition. ***MSK and EMSK definitions talk about export. RFC 3748 terminology does not include "export", so it is not clear what export means. I typically take it as EAP server passing something to the AAA server (or backend authentication server) or lower layer as it has been called recently. I think this is an important concept that needs to be clarified before this document is considered complete. ***PMK definition should be generic, Example: Pair wise master key is a key that is shared by the peer and the authenticator as a base line key to derive session keys that protect data between the peer and the authenticator. The current text is an example on how 802.11 does it and should go in an appendix somewhere, it is not a definition. ***TEK and TSK both use the word "session keys" as the start of the definition, whereas the mean completely different "session" (if you will). One is really about the "EAP session" or exchange between peer and server, and the other about the peer-authenticator. May be call one authentication session and the other link session keys??? (I know not a good suggestion, but honestly it is not worse than what is there already) ***AAA key It says that the key "is derived by the peer and EAP server, ... The AAA key is transported from the backend authentication server to the authenticator.." How did the key end up in the AAA server (remember "backend authentication server" being synonymous with AAA server?)? Given that EAP methods produce MSK and EMSK and export (presumably to the AAA server), it is probably the AAA server that creates the AAA-key out of the MSK and send it over? Specially given that we say EAP server dumps the MSK after export? Does it dump the MSK and keep the AAA key then? Do we want to leave this to interpretation?=20 1.3 "The EAP server also decides whether access to some service should be granted"??? Isn't this the job of AAA server? Thanks, and regards, Madjid -----Original Message----- From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] On Behalf Of Jari Arkko Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:01 AM To: eap@frascone.com Cc: Bernard Aboba Subject: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying This is a Working Group Last Call announcement for draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt which is now available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt This last call ends on Nov 30th, 2005 (longer than usual to accommodate for IETF and IEEE meetings and leave time for detailed security review). Please review this document and post your comments to the EAP WG mailing list. Jari Arkko Bernard Aboba EAP WG co-chairs _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 28 14:34:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVZ3S-0000HV-8Y for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:34:18 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02320 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3FE6204EA; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:34:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B01C204E3 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com ([171.71.177.237]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Oct 2005 11:33:51 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j9SIXL7e029267; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmb-sjc-215.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.169]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:33:45 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Message-ID: <4C0FAAC489C8B74F96BEAD85EAEB262551CC25@xmb-sjc-215.amer.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Thread-Index: AcXazJkzCGwRebIPSh+tOcBH8CX2ggBDdlbwAAL4U7A= From: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" To: "Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1" , "Jari Arkko" , Cc: "Bernard Aboba" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2005 18:33:45.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[210F2FF0:01C5DBEE] Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:33:44 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 <> supposedly scribbled: > Hi, >=20 > I started reading the V08 draft and having the hindsight of some very > recent issues we are dealing with in other SDOs, I have some comments > on what I have read so far (the first 6 pages :) ) =20 >=20 >=20 > ***I think the terminology section needs some more clarification on > the distinction of a backend authentication server/AAA server and EAP > server, given that the draft says: "the terms "AAA server" and > "backend authentication server" are used interchangeably." Honestly, > I think the draft might as well say "the terms AAA server, EAP sever > and backend authentication server are used interchangeably" =20 Except that that would be technically incorrect. =20 =20 >=20 > Backend authentication server > A backend authentication server is an entity that provides an > authentication service to an authenticator. When used, this > server typically executes EAP methods for the authenticator.=20 > This terminology is also used in [IEEE-802.1X]. >=20 > I think the definition of "this server typically executes EAP methods > for the authenticator" should be added to the definition of EAP > server. =20 > Here instead we may say that "the backend authentication server > typically includes EAP server functionality". The way it is, the text > is adding EAP server function to the backend authentication server > definition. =20 >=20 > ***MSK and EMSK definitions talk about export. RFC 3748 terminology > does not include "export", so it is not clear what export means. I > typically take it as EAP server passing something to the AAA server > (or backend authentication server) or lower layer as it has been > called recently. I think this is an important concept that needs to > be clarified before this document is considered complete. =20 >=20 > ***PMK definition should be generic, Example: Pair wise master key is > a key that is shared by the peer and the authenticator as a base line > key to derive session keys that protect data between the peer and the > authenticator. The current text is an example on how 802.11 does it > and should go in an appendix somewhere, it is not a definition. =20 >=20 > ***TEK and TSK both use the word "session keys" as the start of the > definition, whereas the mean completely different "session" (if you > will). One is really about the "EAP session" or exchange between peer > and server, and the other about the peer-authenticator. May be call > one authentication session and the other link session keys??? (I know > not a good suggestion, but honestly it is not worse than what is > there already) =20 >=20 > ***AAA key > It says that the key "is derived by the peer and EAP server, ... > The AAA key is transported from the backend authentication server to > the authenticator.."=20 > How did the key end up in the AAA server (remember "backend > authentication server" being synonymous with AAA server?)?=20 Good question. > Given that EAP methods produce MSK and EMSK and export (presumably to > the AAA server), it is probably the AAA server that creates the > AAA-key out of the MSK and send it over? Specially given that we say > EAP server dumps the MSK after export? Does it dump the MSK and keep > the AAA key then? Do we want to leave this to interpretation? =20 >=20 > 1.3 > "The EAP server also decides whether access to some service should be > granted"??? Isn't this the job of AAA server?=20 Sure is, IMHO. Some people seem to believe that EAP is an authorization = protocol, however. >=20 > Thanks, and regards, >=20 > Madjid >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: eap-admin@frascone.com [mailto:eap-admin@frascone.com] On > Behalf Of Jari Arkko=20 > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:01 AM > To: eap@frascone.com > Cc: Bernard Aboba > Subject: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying >=20 >=20 > This is a Working Group Last Call announcement for > draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt which is now available at:=20 >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-eap-keying-08.txt >=20 > This last call ends on Nov 30th, 2005 (longer than usual to > accommodate for IETF and IEEE meetings and leave time for detailed > security review). =20 >=20 > Please review this document and post your comments to the EAP WG > mailing list.=20 >=20 > Jari Arkko > Bernard Aboba > EAP WG co-chairs >=20 > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap > _______________________________________________ > eap mailing list > eap@frascone.com > http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap Hope this helps, ~gwz Why is it that most of the world's problems can't be solved by simply listening to John Coltrane? -- Henry Gabriel _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 28 14:54:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVZMc-0008E9-8m for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:54:07 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03053 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0887F204F2; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from motgate8.mot.com (motgate8.mot.com [129.188.136.8]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD0B204E3 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j9SJ5MqH008977 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm70.ds.mot.com (de01exm70.am.mot.com [10.176.8.26]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j9SJ1T1v008989 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:01:29 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Thread-Index: AcXazJkzCGwRebIPSh+tOcBH8CX2ggBDdlbwAAL4U7AAAo1GMA== From: "Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1" To: "Glen Zorn (gwz)" , "Jari Arkko" , Cc: "Bernard Aboba" Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:53:02 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Glen, Exactly, I get a sarcasm overflow sometimes :) =20 Madjid Honestly, I=20 > think the draft might as well say "the terms AAA server, EAP sever > and backend authentication server are used interchangeably" =20 Except that that would be technically incorrect. =20 =20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 28 16:22:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVajm-0001q3-Kh for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:22:06 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15738 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B34B204E4; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:22:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from motgate8.mot.com (motgate8.mot.com [129.188.136.8]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215341FC9C for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from az33exr03.mot.com ([10.64.251.233]) by motgate8.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j9SKXGJZ023544 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm70.ds.mot.com (de01exm70.am.mot.com [10.176.8.26]) by az33exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j9SKUdIq006235 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:30:40 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap]: questions on AAA key management draft Thread-Index: AcXbQoYoeyYrXkBaSTeAdgcga4VcKwAuXvAA From: "Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: , "Russ Housley" Subject: [eap] RE: [eap]: questions on AAA key management draft Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:20:56 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard,=20 Please see inlines, Regards, Madjid At the point when Russ gave his talk at IETF 56, no IETF specification involving AAA-based key management had ever been approved for publication as an IETF Proposed Standard, though many had tried. Therefore one of the key questions that we were trying to answer was "What is the bar for AAA-based key management proposals seeking approval?" =20 Madjid>>I think with the EAP keying going on standards track, the bar must have been raised, no? So where do we stand now? The "AAA Key Management" document attempts to describe the requirements that specifications need to meet in order to be published as IETF Proposed Standards.=20 Since the requirements are generic, they apply to the EAP Key Framework document as well as any other document. Specifically, in order to enable its publication, the EAP Key Framework document needs to demonstrate that EAP, along with AAA and Secure Association Protocols, can meet the requirements described in the document.=20 Madjid>> Makes sense. However, do you agree with the points on the needs for further clarification as I raised in my email. I understand that Russ and yourself are busy, is it possible to provide revisions with more clarifications? I can volunteer for help if needed. Note that the details of that proof are out of scope of the "AAA Key Management Requirements" document, but very much in scope for the EAP Key Framework document. Madjid>> agreed. =20 _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From eap-admin@frascone.com Fri Oct 28 17:06:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVbQO-0008RH-1c for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:06:08 -0400 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA19983 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E84204E7; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:06:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f34.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.44]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829C0204E3 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:05:58 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:05:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.54.42.29] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bernard_aboba@hotmail.com From: "Bernard Aboba" To: eap@frascone.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Oct 2005 21:05:58.0689 (UTC) FILETIME=[64F7A110:01C5DC03] Subject: [eap] Issue: EAP Key Manglement Terminology Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:05:58 -0700 >***I think the terminology section needs some more clarification on the >distinction of a backend authentication server/AAA server and EAP >server, given that the draft says: "the terms "AAA server" and "backend >authentication server" are used interchangeably." Honestly, I think the >draft might as well say "the terms AAA server, EAP sever and backend >authentication server are used interchangeably" The term "EAP server" is not necessarily synonymous with "AAA server". Remember, in the "stand alone" case the EAP server is the EAP authenticator. However, I do think it would be useful to use a single term for the "backend authentication server". >Backend authentication server > A backend authentication server is an entity that provides an > authentication service to an authenticator. When used, this server > typically executes EAP methods for the authenticator. This > terminology is also used in [IEEE-802.1X]. > >I think the definition of "this server typically executes EAP methods >for the authenticator" should be added to the definition of EAP server. This is the definition from RFC 3748 and [IEEE 802.1X] so changing could introduce confusion. >***MSK and EMSK definitions talk about export. RFC 3748 terminology does >not include "export", so it is not clear what export means. The definitions are copied from [RFC3748] without modification. Note that [RFC3748] does include the term "export". See Section 1.2: Master Session Key (MSK) Keying material that is derived between the EAP peer and server and exported by the EAP method. The MSK is at least 64 octets in length. In existing implementations, a AAA server acting as an EAP server transports the MSK to the authenticator. Extended Master Session Key (EMSK) Additional keying material derived between the EAP client and server that is exported by the EAP method. The EMSK is at least 64 octets in length. The EMSK is not shared with the authenticator or any other third party. The EMSK is reserved for future uses that are not defined yet. >***PMK definition should be generic. The term "PMK" was originally defined in IEEE 802.11 and is not used in [RFC3748]. Given this, I'm not clear that it would be appropriate to redefine it in this document. As far as I can tell, everywhere the term "PMK" is used in both IEEE 802.11 and 802.16, it is equivalent to MSK(0,31). >***TEK and TSK both use the word "session keys" as the start of the >definition, whereas the mean completely different "session" (if you >will). It would probably help to make it clear that TEKs relate to the EAP conversation and TSKs relate to data. I think that this may have been described in some of the material that was removed. >Given that EAP methods produce MSK and EMSK and export (presumably to >the AAA server), it is probably the AAA server that creates the AAA-key >out of the MSK and send it over? Specially given that we say EAP server >dumps the MSK after export? Does it dump the MSK and keep the AAA key >then? Do we want to leave this to interpretation? In -08 the term "AAA-Key" is used only once, within the definition. Several commenters had felt that the term was confusing, so that it has been removed. Perhaps it might be clearer if the following definition were used instead: AAA-Key The term "AAA-Key" is synonymous with MSK. Given the above definition, the lower layer does not "create" the AAA-Key; it is passed down to it from the EAP Method. There has been some discussion as to whether the lower layer "creates" AMSKs after receiving the EMSK from the EAP layer, or whether the EAP layer keeps the EMSK secret from the lower layer and calculates AMSKs from the EMSK based on a request from the lower layer. >"The EAP server also decides whether access to some service should be >granted"??? Isn't this the job of AAA server? The actual quotation is: The EAP server also stores the peer's identity and/or other information necessary to decide whether access to some service should be granted. So yes, the AAA server makes the decision, but the EAP server stores the information. _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From ederneicary@po.ca Fri Oct 28 18:09:09 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EVcPN-0002SE-2q for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:09:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22744 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [85.102.50.252] (helo=po.ca) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EVccz-0006ny-D4 for eap-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:23:15 -0400 Received: by 192.168.77.201 with SMTP id lAJyOX-UPPJXN-zH; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:09:16 -0500 Received: by 192.168.24.146 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:09:16 -0500 Message-ID: <005701c5dc0c$3bbeb780$9218a8c0@interlude> From: "Ederne Cary" To: "Feardorcha Mikesell" Subject: Re: Hermans Online story Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:09:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5DBE2.52E8AF80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5DBE2.52E8AF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heyo, D VE U % on yo s? o you want to SA PTO 70 ur Medication It rmaEx hop 's not hard with Pha press S VIAVALCIAXanLevAmb GRA Now $IUM Now $LIS Now $axitraien 69.9585.4599.95 Over 200 other - Read more ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5DBE2.52E8AF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
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------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C5DBE2.52E8AF80-- From frost@ascable.com Sat Oct 29 00:30:43 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EViMb-0000OL-SJ; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:30:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08751; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EViZt-0007Ds-Mk; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:44:32 -0400 Received: from [60.48.246.239] (helo=tm.net.my) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EViLz-0005th-Ut; Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:30:04 -0400 Received: (from tomcat@localhost) by 60.48.246.239 (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id j7CHmn3V029007 for dvsqhmanet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:29:25 -0600 Message-ID: <464f051u.1667007@65.246.255.50> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:29:25 -0600 From: "Dave Huddleston" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.450 (Entity 5.933) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dvsqhmanet@ietf.org Cc: dxnvmrouting-discussion-admin@ietf.org, e3@ietf.org, eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-admin@ietf.org, edu-team-bounces@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org, efkhoipoverib@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.264) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 60.48.246.239 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.545309, File::Scan 0.80, Archive::Zip 1.69 X-Recipient: Subject: Mortagge ratee approvedd Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_40913462==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_40913462==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Message-ID: <2llzbdC8h1iyM9khAyj98nCL@ysbsqa-bm-810-409.com> From: "Kirk Calderon" Reply-To: "Kirk Calderon" To: eap-archive@ietf.org Subject: Windows XP Pro $49.95, Office 2003 $69.95 Adobe Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:47:03 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: NoemiLarson@xuu27.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--92i8JKkG4LyH6MM" X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 5dy ----92i8JKkG4LyH6MM Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Q
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<= b class=3Dsans>Microsoft Windows XP Professional *w/SP2*
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----92i8JKkG4LyH6MM-- From us@domainscash.com Sun Oct 30 06:22:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWBGX-0004fS-TE for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:22:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA29806 for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:22:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from pool-70-23-112-236.ny325.east.verizon.net ([70.23.112.236] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWBUV-0000Jt-6A for eap-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5dd43$bfc78b00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Elias Perez" To: Subject: OEM Software Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:22:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DD43.BFC78B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DD43.BFC78B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TOP 10 NEW TITLES ON SALE NOW! 1 Office Pro 2003 2 Adobe Photoshop 9.0 3 Windows XP Pro 4 Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro 5 Flash MX 2004 6 Corel Draw 12 7 Norton Antivirus 2005 8 Windows 2003 Server 9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt 10 Adobe Illustrator 11 See more by this manufacturer Microsoft Symantec Adobe Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 by Microsoft ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 34 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 31 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 50 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://liberationsoft.net/ ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DD43.BFC78B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
   
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
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ListPrice: $550.00
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  9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
  10 Adobe Illustrator 11
  See more by this manufacturer
   
    Symantec
    Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)



Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 47 reviews)

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Availability: Available for INSTANT download!


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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DDAC.6778A380-- From geo@dndc.com Mon Oct 31 03:07:41 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWUhg-0008C6-9G; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:07:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19076; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:07:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWUvl-0005HD-HW; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:22:16 -0500 Received: from c-24-10-47-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([24.10.47.189]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EWUhT-0004pH-Jm; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:07:27 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.5] ([24.10.47.189]) by msn.com (Sendmail 8.7.8) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT91805 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:07:01 -0600 Message-ID: <536b877l.9234574@msn.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=brass; d=msn.com; b=2mOEKsZNoQRgDWbJt14EITHHlfmYU8i3ssWvl60hsyWHnMOsFG8f49kNoeYaVQlbp9gDjNl69MZ6cWpF; X-Display: Full X-List: colloidal.usenet Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:07:01 -0600 From: "Millard Crum" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: disman-admin@ietf.org Subject: Ratess approved Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_32819307==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_32819307==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
try tawdry and erato or botanic and cameo be weatherstrip some rum on barrage ! duchess try celebes may adulthood in athena and engle not gemstone a montenegrin Or maybe not

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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqWkCAqOl7zJvCzg5prfPlf3vvKdL33ra9/74UbOmt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_32819307==.OLA-- From dginfo885@microsoft.com Mon Oct 31 03:11:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWUlc-0000tw-QD; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:11:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA20155; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:11:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200510310811.DAA20155@ietf.org> Received: from [218.18.109.212] (helo=dginfo51) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWUze-0005c7-PH; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 03:26:21 -0500 From: xinyangpx@hotmail.com Subject: =?GB2312?B?zOHJ/bnYzvG53MDtt+fP1deozOK9stf5?= To: eap-archive@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1A1B3.E2C7FE20" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 07:51:31 +0800 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: CSM 3.31 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-NONENGLISH: Subject 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=20   =B5=A5=CE= =BB=C3=FB=B3=C6=A3=BA____________________________  =C1=AA =CF=B5 =C8=CB=A3= =BA___________ =C1=AA=CF= =B5=B5=E7=BB=B0=A3=BA_________________

 

=B4=AB=D5= =E6=A3=BA__________   =D1=A7=D4=B1=C8=CB=CA=FD=A3=BA___________   =D1=A7=D4=B1=D0=D5=C3=FB=A3=BA____________________

=B8=B6=BF= =EE=B7=BD=CA=BD=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=BA 1.=D7=AA=D5= =CA  2.=CF=D6=BD=F0  3.=D6=A7=C6= =B1       =C5=E0=D1=B5=B5=D8=B5=E3=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=BA=A3=B1=A1= =A2=C9=EE=DB=DA=CA=D0=A1=A1=A1=A1=A3=B2=A1=A2=B9=E3=D6=DD=CA=D0

 

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----oXPSeHbFissgbFrFcvB-- From dirtbikechick64@watchworks.biz Mon Oct 31 11:46:05 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWcnN-000363-39 for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:46:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19570 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from d10-15.rt-bras.wnvl.centurytel.net ([69.179.137.15] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWd1Y-0007OB-Gx for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:00:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5de3a$2d55e300$0100007f@localhost> From: "Jonathan Kelly" To: Subject: Windows XP Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:45:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DE3A.2D55E300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DE3A.2D55E300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 34 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 42 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 49 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DE3A.2D55E300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5DE3A.2D55E300-- From eap-admin@frascone.com Mon Oct 31 12:03:13 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWd3x-0007BD-Ik for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:03:13 -0500 Received: from mail.frascone.com (postfix@frascone.com [204.49.99.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20501 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:02:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from xavier (xavier [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E035120389; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:03:03 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: eap@frascone.com Delivered-To: eap@frascone.com Received: from motgate7.mot.com (motgate7.mot.com [129.188.136.7]) by mail.frascone.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CAF1FD6C for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:01:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from az33exr02.mot.com ([10.64.251.232]) by motgate7.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j9VHP8sQ018784 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:25:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from de01exm70.ds.mot.com (de01exm70.am.mot.com [10.176.8.26]) by az33exr02.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j9VH9Ygk008680 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:09:34 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server Thread-Index: AcXcAxlyKdQmRrw/Q+isniMry6693wCMlbag From: "Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1" To: "Bernard Aboba" Cc: "Jari Arkko" , Sender: eap-admin@frascone.com Errors-To: eap-admin@frascone.com X-BeenThere: eap@frascone.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EAP List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:01:22 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bernard, Thank you for your email. Please see my comments below. -----Original Message----- From: Bernard Aboba [mailto:aboba@internaut.com]=20 Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 4:04 PM To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 Cc: Jari Arkko; eap@frascone.com Subject: RE: [eap] WGLC for eap-keying: EAP server-AAA server > ***I think the terminology section needs some more clarification on=20 > the distinction of a backend authentication server/AAA server and EAP=20 > server, given that the draft says: "the terms "AAA server" and=20 > "backend authentication server" are used interchangeably." Honestly, I > think the draft might as well say "the terms AAA server, EAP sever and > backend authentication server are used interchangeably" The term "EAP server" is not necessarily synonymous with "AAA server". =20 Remember, in the "stand alone" case the EAP server is the EAP authenticator. =20 Madjid>>I was merely trying sarcasm:) That is exactly my point: I think we need to be very clear on the logical functions of EAP server and AAA server and their distinctions.=20 I think this draft is a specification on EAP. Hence it needs to be very specific on functionality of an EAP server and clear whenever a part of specification is really a requirement for a AAA server imposed by the keying EAP framework for a AAA server, not a requirement for the EAP server. Saying that "the terms "AAA server" and "backend authentication server" are used interchangeably and then putting an EAP server function into the definition of the backend authentication server (such as "When used, this server typically executes EAP methods for the authenticator.") really does not follow that spirit. If "backend authentication server" and AAA server are synonymous, then that sentence needs to be removed and placed under definition of EAP server. However, I do think it would be useful to use a single term for the "backend authentication server".=20 Madjid>> I am mostly interested in a consistent and tight spec, given that there are several EAP-related drafts and RFCs that are trying so delicately to balance each other. > Backend authentication server > A backend authentication server is an entity that provides an > authentication service to an authenticator. When used, this server > typically executes EAP methods for the authenticator. This > terminology is also used in [IEEE-802.1X]. >=20 > I think the definition of "this server typically executes EAP methods=20 > for the authenticator" should be added to the definition of EAP server. This is the definition from RFC 3748 and [IEEE 802.1X] so changing could introduce confusion.=20 Madjid>> So? We are not violating 3748, are we? I am simply striving more clearance on a spec that has and will have a large audience. We are struggling with these issues with WiMAX on daily basis. I am not just trying to be pedantic. If RFC 3748 is confusing on AAA server-EAP server distinction, then we should not repeat it. BTW, there are plenty of RFCs that has been deprecated many times. Mobile IPv4 is one example. Can't see why clarifying a definition will hurt.=20 > ***MSK and EMSK definitions talk about export. RFC 3748 terminology=20 > does not include "export", so it is not clear what export means. The definitions are copied from [RFC3748] without modification. Note that [RFC3748] does include the term "export". See Section 1.2:=20 Master Session Key (MSK) Keying material that is derived between the EAP peer and server and exported by the EAP method. The MSK is at least 64 octets in length. In existing implementations, a AAA server acting as an EAP server transports the MSK to the authenticator. Madjid>>Given that the definition "assumes" AAA server is the same as EAP server, I cannot see what the importing entity is. This is another place where separating EAP server and AAA server function would help. Given that the current specs give so many 802.11 examples, I don't see how an example of what "export" mean would hurt, I am guessing the general definition of export is that the EAP method/ server and peer will allow another layer (such as AAA layer) to see the keys, so why not provide an example. Extended Master Session Key (EMSK) Additional keying material derived between the EAP client and server that is exported by the EAP method. The EMSK is at least 64 octets in length. The EMSK is not shared with the authenticator or any other third party. The EMSK is reserved for future uses that are not defined yet. > ***PMK definition should be generic. The term "PMK" was originally defined in IEEE 802.11 and is not used in [RFC3748]. Given this, I'm not clear that it would be appropriate to redefine it in this document. As far as I can tell, everywhere the term "PMK" is used in both IEEE 802.11 and 802.16, it is equivalent to MSK(0,31).=20 Madjid>> 802.16 D10 has already graduated to at least two PMKs: 1) EIK | PMK =3Dtruncate (MSK, 320) 2) PMK2=3D truncate (MSK, 160) So I think a more generic definition of PMK is apt, that is IF a definition of PMK would really add value to this draft (rather than creating confusion). I personally think, if AMSK went to the extension draft, so should PMK. > ***TEK and TSK both use the word "session keys" as the start of the=20 > definition, whereas the mean completely different "session" (if you=20 > will). It would probably help to make it clear that TEKs relate to the EAP conversation and TSKs relate to data. I think that this may have been described in some of the material that was removed.=20 Madjid>>The draft does have a "session ID" for EAP, so why not use it when providing clarification? > Given that EAP methods produce MSK and EMSK and export (presumably to=20 > the AAA server), it is probably the AAA server that creates the=20 > AAA-key out of the MSK and send it over? Specially given that we say=20 > EAP server dumps the MSK after export? Does it dump the MSK and keep=20 > the AAA key then? Do we want to leave this to interpretation? In -08 the term "AAA-Key" is used only once, within the definition. =20 Several commenters had felt that the term was confusing, so that it has been removed. Perhaps it might be clearer if the following definition were used instead: AAA-Key The term "AAA-Key" is synonymous with MSK. =20 Given the above definition, the lower layer does not "create" the AAA-Key; it is passed down to it from the EAP Method. There has been some discussion as to whether the lower layer "creates" AMSKs after receiving the EMSK from the EAP layer, or whether the EAP layer keeps the EMSK secret from the lower layer and calculates AMSKs from the EMSK based on a request from the lower layer.=20 Madjid>>Given that the concept of AMSK seems so powerful and easy to grasp, but I am not clear why it has to be created from EMSK, not MSK (can the lower layer cache the AMSK?) My personal confusion aside, it feels that AAA-key is here only for historical reason. Once you are completed the daunting task (may be a timely thing given that this is Oct 30 :) ) of understanding the key hierarchy of an EAP method and then SAP and all that, you then have to try to justify why another key that is btw synonymous with MSK is needed? And BTW what does "synonymous" mean with respective to RFC 2119?? Is every MUST for MSK, a MUST for AAA-key, and so forth?? > "The EAP server also decides whether access to some service should be=20 > granted"??? Isn't this the job of AAA server? The actual quotation is: The EAP server also stores the peer's identity and/or other information necessary to decide whether access to some service should be granted. So yes, the AAA server makes the decision, but the EAP server stores the information.=20 Madjid>>Well, the quotation sounds like it IS the EAP server that makes the decision. Even if we disagree on the rhetoric bases, I don't quite understand the reasoning and the implication here. What sort of information are we talking about? and why would EAP server store it? Given that the EAP server does not even save MSK? _______________________________________________ eap mailing list eap@frascone.com http://mail.frascone.com/mailman/listinfo/eap From simon@yahoo.com Mon Oct 31 19:12:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWjlc-0001WT-OW for eap-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:12:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA22688 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWjzt-00081V-5m for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:27:30 -0500 Received: from cpe-24-198-168-163.maine.res.rr.com ([24.198.168.163] helo=localhost) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EWjlb-0004dv-Mw for eap-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:12:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:20:00 +0100 From: "Goldberg" To: Subject: Welcome to International Legal RX! 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