From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 1 18:01:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCB228C1B1; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:01:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594CD28C1B1 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3xeOIiBvzGdI for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.bbn.com (mx11.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FC628C18E for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.89.252.55] (helo=Lab-Macbook-Pro.local) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KP5Tq-0000IL-Fy for ecrit@ietf.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:00:23 -0400 Message-ID: <4893B1A6.8030201@bbn.com> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 21:00:22 -0400 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Macintosh/20080707) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ECRIT Subject: [Ecrit] Comments on draft-ietf-ecrit-location-hiding-req-00 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Summary: No huge issues with this document, just a few points below. I have highlighted changes to the requirements with [TECHNICAL-REQ]. ------------------------------------------------------ Document: draft-ietf-ecrit-location-hiding-req-00 Reviewer: Richard Barnes, BBN Date: 1 Aug 2008 ------------------------------------------------------ [TECHNICAL-REQ] Req-A: Shouldn't this be a "MUST"? Otherwise, what are we doing with this document? [TECHNICAL-REQ] Req-D: Ultimately, the PSAP needs location by value. It can receive this from the endpoint/VSP by reference, but it needs the value in the end. Suggested text: " The PSAP MUST be provided precise location information (by value) for emergency callers. The endpoint and/or VSP may provide this information either by value or by reference. " [TECHNICAL-REQ] Req-1: This requirement runs counter to Req-A. If the ISP is only going to provide location to entities that it has a business relationship with, and the call needs location to be routed, then *some* VSP will need to have a business relationship with the ISP. I think what this is really going after is that there shouldn't need to be a trust relationship between the VSP the caller uses and the ISP the caller uses Suggested text: " Req-1: The proposed solution MUST NOT assume a business or trust relationship between the caller's VSP and the caller's ISP. " [TECHNICAL-REQ] Req-9: The first sentence of this requirement is really unclear, but I think the last sentence capture what it's about. Suggest reordering: " Req-9: Though the solution MAY add steps to the emergency call routing process described in [framework], these steps MUST NOT significantly increase call setup latency. For example, the revised process MUST NOT include "trial-and-error" operations on its critical path, such as attempts at LbyR resolutions that may take time to time out. " [TECHNICAL-MINOR] 1.1 Emergency Services Architecture In the sentence, "... location information is provided by access networks to end points ...", I would replace "to end points" with "to end points or VoIP service providers" [TECHNICAL-MINOR] 1.2 Location Hiding It's worth noting that location needn't always be provided by the access network; it could be outsourced or provided by a third party (e.g., the Google cell-id DB). Also, the use of the word "afraid" seems unnecessarily anthropomorphic. Suggested text to replace the current section: " In some cases, location providers (e.g., Internet Access Providers (IAPs) and/or the Internet Service Providers (ISPs)) are unwilling to provide precise location information to endpoints or VSPs, as is called for in the above model. The decision to deny location can be driven by a number of technical and business concerns. Some providers may perceive a risk that allowing users to access location information for non-emergency purposes or prior to an emergency call will incur additional server load and thus costs. Other providers may not want to make location information available without the ability to charge for it. " [TECHNICAL-MINOR] 1.3. Location by Reference In the fourth paragraph, it should be specified that the requirement being met here is for delivery to the PSAP, not LoST routing or VSP validation. [EDITORIAL] 1.1 Emergency Services Architecture Might be helpful here just to summarize that location is used in three ways in the emergency calling framework: 1. Emergency call routing via LoST 2. VSP verification that emergency calls are valid 3. PSAP usages, e.g., dispatch Support for these three functions in a location hiding scenario is required in Req-B, Req-C, and Req-D, respectively. [EDITORIAL] 1.1 Emergency Services Architecture The phrase "[LoST] allows to determine..." is missing a direct object. Should be something like "[LoST] allows callers and other call-routing entities to determine...". [EDITORIAL] Throughout: s/personell/personnel/ [EDITORIAL] 1.3. Location by Reference Should the last sentence/paragraph be deleted? I don't see what it adds. [EDITORIAL] 3. Requirements Delete the one sentence in this section. _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 5 15:46:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7FF3A6AA5; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:46:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC743A6AA5; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:46:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6, USER_IN_DEF_WHITELIST=-15] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKurbuY-rjTv; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bosco.isi.edu (bosco.isi.edu [128.9.168.207]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E903A69CF; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bosco.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 70) id 24BF814BC36; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20080805224716.24BF814BC36@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ecrit@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [Ecrit] RFC 5222 on LoST: A Location-to-Service Translation Protocol X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5222 Title: LoST: A Location-to-Service Translation Protocol Author: T. Hardie, A. Newton, H. Schulzrinne, H. Tschofenig Status: Standards Track Date: August 2008 Mailbox: hardie@qualcomm.com, andy@hxr.us, hgs+ecrit@cs.columbia.edu, Hannes.Tschofenig@nsn.com Pages: 69 Characters: 123252 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ecrit-lost-10.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5222.txt This document describes an XML-based protocol for mapping service identifiers and geodetic or civic location information to service contact URIs. In particular, it can be used to determine the location-appropriate Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) for emergency services. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 5 15:47:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608CB28C263; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB2E28C326; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.982 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.982 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6, USER_IN_DEF_WHITELIST=-15] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9dHDTIY4YpsW; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bosco.isi.edu (bosco.isi.edu [128.9.168.207]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0D93A6D4B; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bosco.isi.edu (Postfix, from userid 70) id 8C14114BC38; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:37 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20080805224737.8C14114BC38@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ecrit@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [Ecrit] RFC 5223 on Discovering Location-to-Service Translation (LoST) Servers Using the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5223 Title: Discovering Location-to-Service Translation (LoST) Servers Using the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) Author: H. Schulzrinne, J. Polk, H. Tschofenig Status: Standards Track Date: August 2008 Mailbox: hgs+ecrit@cs.columbia.edu, jmpolk@cisco.com, Hannes.Tschofenig@nsn.com Pages: 8 Characters: 14936 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ecrit-dhc-lost-discovery-03.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5223.txt The Location-to-Service Translation (LoST) Protocol describes an XML- based protocol for mapping service identifiers and geospatial or civic location information to service contact Uniform Resource Locators (URLs). LoST servers can be located anywhere, but a placement closer to the end host, e.g., in the access network, is desirable. In disaster situations with intermittent network connectivity, such a LoST server placement provides benefits regarding the resiliency of emergency service communication. This document describes how a LoST client can discover a LoST server using the Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP). [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 5 23:45:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B2D3A6819; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:45:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9E13A67B4 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:45:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.966 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.966 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.966, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QdW4L34yVclJ for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [217.115.75.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722993A68D3 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 23:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m766jb6k018609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:45:37 +0200 Received: from demuexc022.nsn-intra.net (webmail.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m766jbqd015636 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:45:37 +0200 Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.32.12]) by demuexc022.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:45:37 +0200 Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:45:36 +0200 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:45:30 +0300 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20080805224716.24BF814BC36@bosco.isi.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] RFC 5222 on LoST: A Location-to-Service Translation Protocol Thread-Index: Acj3TTzXpn4N3eXPRGef1Eu+V21qnwAQpi1w References: <20080805224716.24BF814BC36@bosco.isi.edu> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Aug 2008 06:45:36.0187 (UTC) FILETIME=[0803B0B0:01C8F790] Subject: Re: [Ecrit] RFC 5222 on LoST: A Location-to-Service Translation Protocol X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org After years of work we finally finished the LoST specification. Thank you all for the hard work! >-----Original Message----- >From: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of ext rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org >Sent: 06 August, 2008 01:47 >To: ietf-announce@ietf.org; rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org >Cc: ecrit@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org >Subject: [Ecrit] RFC 5222 on LoST: A Location-to-Service >Translation Protocol > > >A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 5222 > > Title: LoST: A Location-to-Service Translation Protocol > Author: T. Hardie, A. Newton, > H. Schulzrinne, H. Tschofenig > Status: Standards Track > Date: August 2008 > Mailbox: hardie@qualcomm.com, > andy@hxr.us, > hgs+ecrit@cs.columbia.edu, > Hannes.Tschofenig@nsn.com > Pages: 69 > Characters: 123252 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ecrit-lost-10.txt > > URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5222.txt > >This document describes an XML-based protocol for mapping >service identifiers and geodetic or civic location information >to service contact URIs. In particular, it can be used to >determine the location-appropriate Public Safety Answering >Point (PSAP) for emergency services. [STANDARDS TRACK] > >This document is a product of the Emergency Context Resolution >with Internet Technologies Working Group of the IETF. > >This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. > >STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards >track protocol for the Internet community,and requests >discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to >the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol >Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of >this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. > >This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. >To subscribe or unsubscribe, see > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist > >For searching the RFC series, see >http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. >For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. > >Requests for special distribution should be addressed to >either the author of the RFC in question, or to >rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted >otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. > > >The RFC Editor Team >USC/Information Sciences Institute > > >_______________________________________________ >Ecrit mailing list >Ecrit@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 11 11:38:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A763A6983; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 026033A6983 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.611, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M2cKrmNIpRHk for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6420D3A6878 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Aug 2008 18:37:21 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp019) with SMTP; 11 Aug 2008 20:37:21 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19t44wH9MBtPwYaEDwFwsxuKetf2h0opvytugJqmM NbFRdZXnhYkDwt Message-ID: <48A086EC.3090601@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:37:32 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.63 Subject: [Ecrit] [Fwd: [Es-coordination] 5th SDO Emergency Services Workshop] X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org FYI -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Es-coordination] 5th SDO Emergency Services Workshop Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:11:58 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: es-coordination@lists.cs.columbia.edu Hi all, we would like to inform you about the status of the next emergency services workshop. The workshop will be in Vienna, Austria, from the 21st October to the 23rd October 2008. Our host for this workshop is Frequentis. Up-to-date information about the workshop can be found here: http://www.emergency-services-coordination.info/esw5.html Best regards, Hannes Tschofenig (On behalf of the program chairs) _______________________________________________ Es-coordination mailing list Es-coordination@lists.cs.columbia.edu https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/cucslists/listinfo/es-coordination _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 08:29:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA9D3A6ADC; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:29:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7C13A6ADC for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:29:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.237 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.237 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.135, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v3YKqbfMM88w for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B7A3E3A6AC5 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 15:29:23 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp065) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 17:29:23 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18aEmdOjq8a+lV5/rjvqn/Aqs+mVx0fmuFYSNOITQ NWbwwtxAdDDnX1 Message-ID: <48A99556.6060402@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:29:26 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.68 Subject: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regarding draft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, Brian has kindly captured requirements about handling abandoned calls and premature disconnects in emergency calls in the following document: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00.txt The document essentially summarizes discussions that took place in the NENA i2.5 group. Thanks for the participants of that group for their input. We had a fairly heated discussion at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting. Unfortunately, we were not able to come to a conclusion during the meeting. Marc and I had to postpone the discussion to the list and here we are. It would be good to hear your opinion about this issue so that WE CAN FINALLY FINISH the phone BCP & the framework drafts. Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 08:32:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9CB3A6AC5; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:32:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C283A6AC5 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:32:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.687 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.687 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.423, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RKExGRAyNJul for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DAF73A6A6E for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 15:32:59 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp067) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 17:32:59 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18x2ItDRugxZIn+Fi7k7nxTIj9ZgcwW/Hs8HMDOky g6j9EOi6p16KXp Message-ID: <48A9962F.2010408@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:33:03 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.83 Subject: [Ecrit] IETF#72 ECRIT Meeting Minutes X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Please take a look at the following meeting minutes: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/minutes/ecrit.txt _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 08:40:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2DD3A685F; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:40:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6713A6CE6 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.321, BAYES_40=-0.185, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wdoJlMAWDIkx for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihemail4.lucent.com (ihemail4.lucent.com [135.245.0.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331853A6A61 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ilexp03.ndc.lucent.com (h135-3-39-50.lucent.com [135.3.39.50]) by ihemail4.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id m7IFdqDt022562; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:39:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from DEEXP02.DE.lucent.com ([135.248.187.66]) by ilexp03.ndc.lucent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:38:59 -0500 Received: from DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com ([135.248.187.20]) by DEEXP02.DE.lucent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:38:57 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:38:53 +0200 Message-ID: <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE291800220D321@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <48A99556.6060402@gmx.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 Thread-Index: AckBRzWzsLeK2VneRzy3qv3Cc6KIwgAAMgYw References: <48A99556.6060402@gmx.net> From: "DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" To: "Hannes Tschofenig" , "ECRIT" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2008 15:38:57.0446 (UTC) FILETIME=[87354C60:01C90148] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.39 Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org There were a number of comments made in the meeting which I understood would result in an update. Is that available? For example, I cannot judge the applicability of some of the requirements without knowing whether "caller" refers to the caller as in the human user or in the device belonging to that user. Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:29 PM > To: 'ECRIT' > Subject: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions > regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 > > Hi all, > > Brian has kindly captured requirements about handling > abandoned calls and premature disconnects in emergency calls > in the following document: > http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnec > t-rqmts-00.txt > The document essentially summarizes discussions that took > place in the NENA i2.5 group. Thanks for the participants of > that group for their input. > > We had a fairly heated discussion at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting. > Unfortunately, we were not able to come to a conclusion > during the meeting. Marc and I had to postpone the discussion > to the list and here we are. > > It would be good to hear your opinion about this issue so > that WE CAN FINALLY FINISH the phone BCP & the framework drafts. > > Ciao > Hannes > > _______________________________________________ > Ecrit mailing list > Ecrit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 08:41:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161873A6D29; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05403A6D33 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:41:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.346 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.346 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xk1R8VMNDpPe for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 86F7E3A6D3B for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 15:41:28 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp038) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 17:41:28 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18yDiE4Jxwy3lKW/BVgrJ7p7UKlS1UvascFruiyPH VFwg4MP+QazxpY Message-ID: <48A9982C.4000800@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:41:32 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "DRAGE, Keith \(Keith\)" References: <48A99556.6060402@gmx.net> <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE291800220D321@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE291800220D321@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.51 Cc: ECRIT Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Hi Keith, yep. These comments are available. I have just sent the meeting minutes to the list. This time even "unmodified" Ciao Hannes DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: > There were a number of comments made in the meeting which I understood > would result in an update. > > Is that available? > > For example, I cannot judge the applicability of some of the > requirements without knowing whether "caller" refers to the caller as in > the human user or in the device belonging to that user. > > Keith > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig >> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:29 PM >> To: 'ECRIT' >> Subject: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions >> regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 >> >> Hi all, >> >> Brian has kindly captured requirements about handling >> abandoned calls and premature disconnects in emergency calls >> in the following document: >> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnec >> t-rqmts-00.txt >> The document essentially summarizes discussions that took >> place in the NENA i2.5 group. Thanks for the participants of >> that group for their input. >> >> We had a fairly heated discussion at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting. >> Unfortunately, we were not able to come to a conclusion >> during the meeting. Marc and I had to postpone the discussion >> to the list and here we are. >> >> It would be good to hear your opinion about this issue so >> that WE CAN FINALLY FINISH the phone BCP & the framework drafts. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >> >> _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 10:53:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714AD3A68B6; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBC83A6A63 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.090, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xm40+SbTHHrI for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 05F8E3A68B6 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 17:53:05 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp040) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 19:53:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/kwLgclEfkhHxLoe1LFX1e3IFedBTQtu5qgZ03GU C4M0sUm2vuywMs Message-ID: <48A9B707.7040501@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:53:11 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.75 Subject: [Ecrit] draft-wolf-ecrit-lost-servicelistboundary-00.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org During the IETF#72 ECRIT session I noticed that not many WG members have read draft-wolf-ecrit-lost-servicelistboundary-00.txt. Please take a look at: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-wolf-ecrit-lost-servicelistboundary-00.txt _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 10:53:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96853A6D41; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778AE3A68B6 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.981, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PdAbXY1NPsmc for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 85DE23A6D41 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 17:53:41 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp016) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 19:53:41 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+SOuQaCNGSlq/lr+OJz/nseEs1I/1D4qk2QvOejA zvmgOU5vTI+oLC Message-ID: <48A9B72B.30203@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:53:47 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.77 Subject: [Ecrit] draft-rosen-ecrit-ecall-01.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org During the IETF#72 ECRIT session I noticed that not many WG members have read draft-rosen-ecrit-ecall-01.txt. Please take a look at: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rosen-ecrit-ecall-01.txt _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 10:59:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812C93A6C31; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:59:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E801F3A6C14 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:59:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.032, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o7JoWESvP5Mw for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EA15A3A68F9 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 17:53:21 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp026) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 19:53:21 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/AaAFj5BLAjAFO2Cg+ovj6PxLmldtSQpfRMqHv1q 4mfd6l3z4NNqZu Message-ID: <48A9B717.2050809@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:53:27 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' , GEOPRIV X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.77 Subject: [Ecrit] draft-tschofenig-ecrit-trustworthy-location-00.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org During the IETF#72 ECRIT session I noticed that not many WG members have read draft-tschofenig-ecrit-trustworthy-location-00.txt. Please take a look at: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-tschofenig-ecrit-trustworthy-location-00.txt _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 11:09:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9183A6D41; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:09:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080173A65A6 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:09:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.934, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9J9XZ8PBVzTl for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CB01E3A6B22 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 18:09:59 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 20:09:59 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/tAmkUgrztdpRFAtqQ9hYdUuiC18/3JhqbX2cpH+ MCVR3iP5q7CTqi Message-ID: <48A9BAFC.907@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:10:04 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.62 Subject: [Ecrit] Rechartering: The Next Steps X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org During the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting the chairs got some feedback regarding the items the group would like to work on in the near future. Here is the feedback we recorded: IANA Registering a SIP Resource Priority Header Namespace for Local Emergency Communications http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-polk-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-03.txt 5 in favor 1 against Using Imprecise Location for Emergency Context Resolution http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-barnes-ecrit-rough-loc-00.txt 9 in favor 2 against Location-to-Service Translation Protocol (LoST) Extensions http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-forte-ecrit-lost-extensions-00.txt 12 in favor 2 against Classification of Location-based Services http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-forte-ecrit-service-classification-00.txt Should not be considered for WG item but deserve an expert review. Shelter Service And Classification http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-sun-ecrit-shelter-service-00.txt 5 in favor 0 against (the minutes wheren't clear on this issue) The chairs are wondering how the group would like to progress the last two items. Feedback from the authors and the group is appreciated. There were also a couple of documents that did not receive a lot of feedback. I have sent separate mails to the list about them. We are also going to reconfirm these decisions on the mailing list. Ciao Hannes & Marc _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 11:11:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F7A3A6D27; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92FF3A6D27 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.707 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.707 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.892, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFsJyzjd1z3k for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 81E983A6A32 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 18:11:05 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp043) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 20:11:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19Ys2BmLGNYl44LOhUyxcbWqzhDhU5pd6j+TNENW2 whcYrbUHwwcBfu Message-ID: <48A9BB3E.4000802@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:11:10 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.64 Subject: [Ecrit] HUM regarding draft-polk-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-03.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting the chairs asked the room whether there is interest in working on the following document: ------------ IANA Registering a SIP Resource Priority Header Namespace for Local Emergency Communications http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-polk-ecrit-local-emergency-rph-namespace-03.txt ------------ The result was: 5 in favor 1 against We would like to get feedback from the group on the mailing list in order to reconfirm the decision. Deadline: 31st August. Ciao Hannes & Marc _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 11:11:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025723A6D67; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69DA3A6D64 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.746 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.746 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.853, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7s6FFAmyP3ay for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D1E93A6D62 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 18:11:16 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp035) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 20:11:16 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+/oLQe836/HDtCmoSbKioWRN3scvedROBp975ooX eXrU3Hkrqz1y4K Message-ID: <48A9BB49.6090300@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:11:21 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.67 Subject: [Ecrit] HUM regarding draft-barnes-ecrit-rough-loc-00.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting the chairs asked the room whether there is interest in working on the following document: ------------ Using Imprecise Location for Emergency Context Resolution http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-barnes-ecrit-rough-loc-00.txt ------------ The result was: 9 in favor 2 against We would like to get feedback from the group on the mailing list in order to reconfirm the decision. Deadline: 31st August. Ciao Hannes & Marc _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 11:11:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352A33A6D63; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A9B3A6D62 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.782 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.782 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.817, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RnXUvmaFrtwy for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B24883A6D27 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Aug 2008 18:11:22 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp030) with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 20:11:22 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+x4xNJMeuxH2r3QFg+HmSRToTRhjpXtBu0WxD8zv qzudyQtbW4e7G5 Message-ID: <48A9BB4F.2070906@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:11:27 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.67 Subject: [Ecrit] HUM regarding draft-forte-ecrit-lost-extensions-00.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Hi all, at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting the chairs asked the room whether there is interest in working on the following document: ------------ Location-to-Service Translation Protocol (LoST) Extensions http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-forte-ecrit-lost-extensions-00.txt ------------ The result was: 12 in favor 2 against We would like to get feedback from the group on the mailing list in order to reconfirm the decision. Deadline: 31st August. Ciao Hannes & Marc _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 15:06:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C920B28C120; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:06:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1AE23A6B6B for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:06:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nPPSiIItWf9m for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail51.messagelabs.com (mail51.messagelabs.com [216.82.244.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 623B33A6864 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:06:26 -0700 (PDT) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: John.Hearty@Level3.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-51.messagelabs.com!1219097186!9043383!3 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [209.245.18.106] Received: (qmail 26453 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2008 22:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown.level3.net (HELO f10bb8-10) (209.245.18.106) by server-7.tower-51.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2008 22:06:30 -0000 Received: from idc1embx0001.corp.global.level3.com (idc1embx0001.corp.global.level3.com [10.1.9.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by f10bb8-10 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 535044442; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:06:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1embx0001.corp.global.level3.com ([10.1.9.76]) by idc1embx0001.corp.global.level3.com ([10.1.9.76]) with mapi; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:06:30 -0600 From: "Hearty, John" To: Hannes Tschofenig , "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:06:27 -0600 Thread-Topic: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 Thread-Index: AckBSObfJzxEludaTw+nkBJZDabo3AAHhbVQ Message-ID: <045AC4DE08796D448FAAADC939AFAE6C01969EE69B@idc1embx0001.corp.global.level3.com> References: <48A99556.6060402@gmx.net> <5D1A7985295922448D5550C94DE291800220D321@DEEXC1U01.de.lucent.com> <48A9982C.4000800@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <48A9982C.4000800@gmx.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: ECRIT Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Here are some thoughts on some of the issues raised: 1. Concern PD-5 will brick the phone. Can we point to the session timer text in phonebcp or some new timer that returns the UA to normal operation (allowed to make calls) after it expires? Can the requirement be relaxed for multi-line phones so it only applies to the line used for emergency call? 2. PD-6 privacy concerns over sending media. I believe the intention of the requirement is to help facilitate rapid re-establishment of media as required by PD-1. From a user's perspective I do not believe anyone had a need for media to continue flowing while in the premature disconnect state. The requirement as written may be delving a bit into solution space, knowing about issues like NAT bindings and SBCs that would release resources when no media is flowing. Perhaps the requirement should be deleted, and talk about keepalives etc. in a solutions document, or at least modify requirement to mute mic or otherwise encode nothing into RTP sent. 3. Concern over holding up phonebcp for CPH. Is there consensus to do this? Should current text on BYE simply be deleted, retained or modified in anticipation of CPH feature and issues it is bringing to light? Perhaps some preliminary discussion on CPH would be needed to answer this question. a. If BYE text deleted, either end can terminate call until CPH feature defined. Is this OK? I cannot think of any problems this would cause defining the CPH feature later. b. If BYE text is retained, it will always be up to the PSAP to disconnect the call. Can we rely on this? It appears the policy for the length of time PSAPs in various jurisdictions wait will vary. c. Do we need to modify BYE text for realities like allowing it to be sent for example when device battery is critically low or a wireless device is leaving a coverage area? Current phonebcp BYE text is silent on allowing calls to be made by device (PD-5). Was this assumed? Is it OK for UAs to make new calls? Multi-line UAs? Is consideration of any of the other CPH requirements critical when deciding what to do with current BYE text if we update phonebcp later for CPH? John -----Original Message----- From: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 9:42 AM To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) Cc: ECRIT Subject: Re: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 Hi Keith, yep. These comments are available. I have just sent the meeting minutes to the list. This time even "unmodified" Ciao Hannes DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: > There were a number of comments made in the meeting which I understood > would result in an update. > > Is that available? > > For example, I cannot judge the applicability of some of the > requirements without knowing whether "caller" refers to the caller as in > the human user or in the device belonging to that user. > > Keith > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ecrit-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig >> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:29 PM >> To: 'ECRIT' >> Subject: [Ecrit] Let's make some decisions >> regardingdraft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 >> >> Hi all, >> >> Brian has kindly captured requirements about handling >> abandoned calls and premature disconnects in emergency calls >> in the following document: >> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnec >> t-rqmts-00.txt >> The document essentially summarizes discussions that took >> place in the NENA i2.5 group. Thanks for the participants of >> that group for their input. >> >> We had a fairly heated discussion at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting. >> Unfortunately, we were not able to come to a conclusion >> during the meeting. Marc and I had to postpone the discussion >> to the list and here we are. >> >> It would be good to hear your opinion about this issue so >> that WE CAN FINALLY FINISH the phone BCP & the framework drafts. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ecrit mailing list >> Ecrit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit >> >> _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 16:22:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C013A6A24; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:22:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF01A3A6A24 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:22:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZqxApqCvuHTw for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.bbn.com (mx11.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352B83A6878 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.89.252.93] (helo=ip67-91-170-143.z170-91-67.customer.algx.net) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KVE3R-0000Q0-FS; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:22:29 -0400 Message-ID: <48AA0435.6040309@bbn.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:22:29 -0500 From: Richard Barnes User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Macintosh/20080707) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <48A9BB4F.2070906@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <48A9BB4F.2070906@gmx.net> Cc: 'ECRIT' Subject: Re: [Ecrit] HUM regarding draft-forte-ecrit-lost-extensions-00.txt X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org I am in favor (I was one in the room, if that matters). --Richard Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Hi all, > > at the IETF#72 ECRIT meeting the chairs asked the room whether there is > interest in working on the following document: > > ------------ > Location-to-Service Translation Protocol (LoST) Extensions > http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-forte-ecrit-lost-extensions-00.txt > ------------ > > The result was: > 12 in favor > 2 against > > We would like to get feedback from the group on the mailing list in > order to reconfirm the decision. > > Deadline: 31st August. > > Ciao > Hannes & Marc > > _______________________________________________ > Ecrit mailing list > Ecrit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit > _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 24 08:59:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796993A6CB3; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B2F3A6CB3 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, URIBL_GREY=0.25] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G2D43o+NBBjn for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 847B23A6CAC for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 24 Aug 2008 15:59:50 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp022) with SMTP; 24 Aug 2008 17:59:50 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18ogT4YTSwolQvE4M0pFQi72MOI+n4SI+hkCA9SNL sPBoCHu0Lkab87 Message-ID: <48B18574.7080008@gmx.net> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:59:48 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GEOPRIV , 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.55 Subject: [Ecrit] [Fwd: Minneapolis IETF Code Sprint] X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Another chance to get together and todo interop testing with GEOPRIV and ECRIT protocols. Are there some new folks interested in joining? Ciao Hannes PS: Information about our IETF#72 activities can be found here: http://geopriv.googlepages.com/ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Minneapolis IETF Code Sprint Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:30:10 -0700 (PDT) From: IETF Chair Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org To: IETF Announcement list CC: ietf@ietf.org Minneapolis IETF Code Sprint When: November 15, 2008, begining at 9:30 AM Where: IETF Hotel in Minneapolis What: A bunch of hackers get together to work on code for IETF tools. Some people may be porting of existing functionality to the new framework; some people may be adding exciting new functionality. All code will become part of the open source IETF tools. Who: Hopefully you can help Henrik Levkowetz and Bill Fenner will be coordinating the event. You will hear more from them shortly, beginning with brainstorming about which things to work on during this event. Please support the tools development effort, Russ _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit From ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 25 07:29:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ecrit-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ecrit-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859D13A709D; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:29:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ecrit@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C8E28C2A2 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.634 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.634 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.235, BAYES_50=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_36=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JzuPfgEHrl05 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F2E833A709C for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Aug 2008 14:29:00 -0000 Received: from a91-154-105-144.elisa-laajakaista.fi (EHLO [192.168.255.3]) [91.154.105.144] by mail.gmx.net (mp025) with SMTP; 25 Aug 2008 16:29:00 +0200 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+dGHIie2ad5HBbFJadA0pt/5UelO7GcIDbl7erp/ L0WoP2I1JQFryD Message-ID: <48B2C1AA.8090802@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:28:58 +0300 From: Hannes Tschofenig User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 'ECRIT' X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.5 Subject: [Ecrit] Premature Disconnect (feedback from the meeting) X-BeenThere: ecrit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ecrit-bounces@ietf.org Here is a copy-and-paste from the meeting minutes regarding the draft-rosen-ecrit-premature-disconnect-rqmts-00 based on the slide presentation: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/slides/ecrit-0.ppt -------------------------------------------------------------- Open issue was raised surrounding UA unable to send BYE in the draft. There are 2 problems Premature Disconnect and Abandoned Call Problem 1: Premature Disconnect - Caller hangs up before call-taker wants to terminate the call. Explained Current Implementaiton of CPH(Called Party Hold): >> Refer to Slide 8 Baseline Requirement is for PSAP to rapidly re-establish the connection to the user. In jurisdiction where there is no CPH and PSAP calls back the originator, is CPH and call-back perceived different?(Ted) Yes it's different. Real problem is you can get Voicemail.. Instead of the originator. Originator can also make a call, with CPH, originator can't make another call. (Brian) Call-back is not a replacement of CPH. There is nothing that can be done when the device is mechanically disconnected. (Henning) Current text on the Phone BCP is not adequate. (Brian) There is a negotiation mechanism necessary and that's a requirement. (Ted) Requirements: >> refer to Slide 9 PD-5 1. Problem when phone has multiple line presence, risk is if user is subscribed to multiple providers and phone is disabled to make a call because it's bricked by CPH even though the call failed due to external cause such as network trouble, user can't attempt to make another emergency call although it has a capability to do so. (Henning) >> Needs ML discussion. 2. May be a concern if there is a massive emergency and there are overload happening.. (Problem with the network). (Andrew) - There is a deployment experience around this. (Brian) - Don't have experience of doing this in network. (Ted) - We can still learn from what they have done. (Brian) PD-6 - Sounds like it's asking spy capability (listening in even when the phone is hanged up). - No requirement is saying there needs to be an active media path available for when user picks up the phone.(brian) - This is very difficult to resolve on the IP network (NAT binding etc.) (ted) - Will feel comfortable if we can add PD-8 to add text to not send media, while its in premature disconnect state. (Henning) Suggestion: Add another requirement which explicitly prevents any media to go through the media path retained when CPH is enabled. - PD-1 may be a concern >> The probability of DoS is differnt in VoIP.(Ted) >> Causing many CPH so resources on PSAP is non-existent to make any out-going call impossible. - PD-5/PD-7 are almost impossible in Wireless > resource preservation/release . (Hannu). - BYE control from the protocol is not good enough, especially with cellular, out of boundry problem etc will not prevent.. - We need a cognitive VoIP requirements. Needs to be 2 ways. (Henning) - Agree, need to make the text to make the requirements more reasonable in VoIP. (Henning) - Some solution in the area of using modern UI rather than network oriented solution may be much better/far more effective. (Henning) - Concern because there is no way to know what the calling device is, the reason of the disconnect can't be known (Run out of battery, broken wire etc.). - Why are we adding another 14months to phone-bcp/frameworks. Problem 2: Abandoned Call >> Refer to slide 11: - Caller hangs up before the call-taker picks up the phone. - Until call-taker picks up the phone. It's not a CPH.(Marc) - Requirements is that PSAP wants to control abandoned call. (Brian) - How do they define abandoned call? (Ted) > They take a log. (Brian) Requirements >> Refer to slide 12: - UI can resolve this.. Don't think network needs to be involved. (Ted) Documentation/Process debate How can we finish BCP/Framework (Hannes)? - They don't want to lose the capabilities.(Brian) - Can't even agree on the requirements right now. (Henning) - There are two approach discussed and both has its consequences, but two proposals are in polar opposite and it will not be a trivial effort to come to any consensus. It will hinder the progress of these documents. (Henning) - Propose to separate the document.. (Hannes) - There is a new protocol requirements necessary because of negotiation.(Ted) - Propose to define a new draft, which will update the phone-bcp. Remove the text form the phone-bcp.(Ted) Conclusion: Continue the discussion on the list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------Below is another copy of the meeting minutes from the 2nd scribe------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- One open issue: Calling UA should not send BYE. Need requirements first before deciding on course of implementation. Doc is available on this issue. Requirment is to rapidly reestablish connection to user. Call Party Hold is the mechanism used in some jurisdictions. Steve Norris: Requirement is to attempt to reestablish call. Brian: Everything within reason Ted Hardy: Clarification about the PSAP being the party not willing to release the call. Brian: Yes. Ted: Were not required, does the PSAP calling the party back serve the same NENA function. Brian: Does not serve same function because of time. And you can get voicemail. And user can start another call. Ted: Where this was given up, it was replaced with nothing? Brian: yes. Henning: Difference between POTS mechanical switch and more advanced digital systems. Brian: You are talking about implementaiton, not requirments Henning: PSAP could still have microphone engaged. Brian: They aren't asking for spy capabilities. Henning: What happens on both sides when BYE is sent to PSAP. Brian: That is implementation, not requirements. Ted: This is a behavior that may need negotiation. Brian: Yes. Stu Goldman: This capablity disappeared with SS7, but that calling number which gave PSAP ability to reestablish. Marc: That happened with E911, not SS7. Brian: PSAPs don't consider that to be true. Brian - going over NENA requirements in slides Ted: Call not established? Brian: Different. Brian - continues with NENA requirements from slides Henning: Advanced phones have multi line pressence. PD5 says that none should be able to place a call. Brian: Probably true. Henning: Could cause problems with failures not being able to talke to PSAPs. Martin: Jabber room wants to know about slides. Brain: yes, we know. network problems Brian - going back to PD7 requirement Steve: PD5 is concerning. You have disconnected and this can cause more problems, Brain: requires list discussion Ted: PD6? You told Henning not spy capability. But all media flows seems to say that. Brian: That is not what it is suppose to do. Ted: What about NAT bindins. Brian: You are into solutions. Ted: The network as deployed now makes it difficult to not leak info. Brain: We can have requirements on the phone that might solve this. Henning: More comfortable about PD8 must not send unintentional signals. Brian: sure Andrew Allen: Concern with PD5. Mass emergency situation, where getting disconnected to PSAP due to overload, if you cannot call anybody else, then this causes problems. Brian: We can deployment experience with this issue, we don't have to talk about theoritcal situations of overload. Henning: Something about shooting himself with a large calibre weapon. Ted: You don't have pracitcal experience because everything so far has been circumspect with VoIP. circuit switch vs. voip is not the same thing. Brian: But we can ask about their experiences. Hannes: PD6 Not transmit audio any more? Brian: you are talking about solutions, not requirements Ted: PD2 - thinking about congestive load on the network. thinking about PSAP DoS attack. The BYE state may never reach the PSAP, so how does that affect this. Brian: That is a legitmate concern. But this is not all or nothing. Ted: But circuit switch with DoS is different for VoIP. This could result in that they don't reach anybody, not just the PSAP. Andrew A.: In VoIP it is very easy to accept the new incoming stream from teh PSAP. Brain: Solution again, not requirement. microphone scuffle on the underlying requirements Hannu: Even if we don't like thise requirements, we will see this stuff from various places and different nations. Valid concern about premature disconnection, we should keep in mind that cellular the user can always say bye but removing the battery. Then, combining PD5 & PD7 lead to a dangerous situation in cell environments. Henning: In some circumstances, there may not be any need for solutions. We are forcing mechanisms which can be placed on the user interfaces. Brian: Feature negotiaiton. Henning: Better to consider doing this all on the user interfaces. Brian: But these are two endpoints. Henning: I'm talking about protocols. Keith: Which resource are we protecting. Handset, user, PSAP? Steve: PSAP could cut in to streams and determine information just from listening and determine that way. James P.: We don't know the type of endpoint the caller is calling from. We will never be able to solve this, because of the multiple environments. This will just delay these 2 documents for 18 months. Brain: I don't think it is that bad. Brain- goes on with slides on abandoned call Ted: Does this happen today? How do they know about an abandoned call? Brian: it gets logged. Brian - goes back to slides on abandoned call requirements Marc: When is a called abandoned, SIP wise? Brian: This wording could be improved, because VoIP changes this a bit. Keith: Resource reservation with AC1, continue it? Brian: yes. Ted: Underlying requirement is that the emergency system determine that the use really intended to abandon the call. Could al be done on the UI? Hannes: Stops the discussion, and asks would should we do about these requirements? Would like to finissh our documents today. How do we do that? Brian: People want to do this today. Henning: The notion that these documents will be correct is hard to believe, and we will revise them. Brian: Not trying to lose capabilities to do this now, since it is already deployed. Hannes: But implementation experience later on will help. Brian: But we know now this will be lost functionality. Henning: We cannot agree on requirements done in short amount of time. Unless you want to delay by 6 months, we need to find another way forward. Hannes: Remove MUST NOT send BYE, and then we can deal with this like unauthenticated emergency calls. Brian: But you are taking a feature away. James P: Not taking a feature away, because vendors can add above and beyond. Brian: But what about interoperability. Brian: We are in a new world and therefore we should not deploy this feature is not a good reason. Brian: This is straightforward, and I think we could do this. Hannes: Would phone-bcp reference this stuff. Brian: yes. Hannes: I don't get the impression that this would work. Ted: There is new protocol negotiation mechanism, which is not soemthing we have done in the past. What about wording to have PSAP will always send the BYE, and the phones know to rely on the PSAP. Brian: Undeployable. Ted: You can deploy what you have either. You can do what I just said, though. Ted: Move to a new document, have new doc point to phone bcp. Hannes: Sending proposal to the list. _______________________________________________ Ecrit mailing list Ecrit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ecrit