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From siri@alli-g.com Thu Dec 01 10:45:42 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ehqcw-00043p-12 for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:45:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06739 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:44:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip.85.202.147.178.dyn.sub-8.broadband.voliacable.com ([85.202.147.178] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhqxR-0002G9-3Y for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:06:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f68c$da678980$0100007f@localhost> From: "Diego Thompson" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:45:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F68C.DA678980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F68C.DA678980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 47 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 32 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 39 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F68C.DA678980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F68C.DA678980-- From BrendaCramer@jeffroosien.com Thu Dec 01 11:54:53 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ehrhs-0004Om-UW for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:54:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16897 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:54:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [201.19.247.204] (helo=132.151.6.1) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ehs1v-0004zo-Tp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:16:04 -0500 Received: from 1q7Q@localhost by Pfsj.int (8.11.6/8.11.6); Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:10:07 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Linda Riggs" Reply-To: "Linda Riggs" To: disclosures@ietf.org Subject: Acrobat Pro 7.0 $69.95 Office XP Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 14:14:07 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.2730.2 X-Sender: BrendaCramer@jeffroosien.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--7bnA30Dz1LWKO0S" X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 TfM ----7bnA30Dz1LWKO0S Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 5

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TOP 10 NEW TITLES

<= td width=3D132> Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro<= td width=3D8> these other items...

<= p align=3Dcenter> ON SALE NOW!
= ;	1	Windows XP Pro SP2
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	7	Norton Sysworks 2005
	8	Adobe GoLive CS2
	9	Adobe Illustrator CS2
	10	Borland Architect 2= 005
	See more by t= his manufacturer
	Microsoft
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----7bnA30Dz1LWKO0S-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Thu Dec 01 12:21:20 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ehs7S-0000mC-Mi for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:21:20 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20869 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jB1H4DdP084607; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:04:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jB1H4DtY084606; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:04:13 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from drummondgroup.com (drummondgroup.com [161.58.166.198]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jB1H4Cp6084588 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:04:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kyle@drummondgroup.com) Received: from KYLEDGILAPTOP (pcp517486pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.53.139.87]) by drummondgroup.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jB1H49NH075135 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:04:11 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200512011704.jB1H49NH075135@drummondgroup.com> From: "Kyle Meadors" To: Subject: profiles in AS2 Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:04:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C5F666.FA8F4E80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYw== Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C5F666.FA8F4E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2=96Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their = trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include = I=96Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple=96Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal=96mart, P&G and others GS1 = companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature = receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully = when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is = best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2=96Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression = (e.g. =931.2=94 indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT=96Features. The features header shows = all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT=96Features: CEM, = multiple=96attachment) but like AS2=96Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the = message using that feature. For example, =93CEM=96Profile=94 for CEM messages. = This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a =93Capability Query=94 AS2 Message which returns a = Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C5F666.FA8F4E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the = use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an = extra feature. Using "AS2–Version: 1.1" in a message indicated = the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their = trading partners could support compression.

Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include = I–Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple–Attachments (oil & gas users) = and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal–mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the = future.

My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new = features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it = (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, = can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature = Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing = implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an = unrecognized MA message).

Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or = other ideas.

1. Use AS2–Version header to indicate UA = support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works = like compression (e.g. “1.2” indicates capability of CEM but not = an actual CEM message).

2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT–Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. = EDIINT–Features: CEM, multiple–attachment) but like AS2–Version does not = indicate every message contains profile.

3. Use a new header for each feature which is present = ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, = “CEM–Profile” for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only = profiles it recognizes.

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which = returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can = support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

------=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C5F666.FA8F4E80-- From Vgsusi@optonline.net Thu Dec 01 15:54:30 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EhvRl-0001v9-VY; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:54:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27135; Thu, 1 Dec 2005 15:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhvmH-0008Rn-K1; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 16:15:43 -0500 Received: from cm189.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg ([218.212.102.189] helo=lh) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EhvRi-0007gg-4X; Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:54:26 -0500 From: "Amalia Norman" To: dhcwg-request@ietf.org Subject: Fw: Please Read Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:49:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_BOREAYTP.DKYZDGPL" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_BOREAYTP.DKYZDGPL Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sir/Madam, Your current position has been appraised to the crucial parties, and upon conscientious forethought, we are able to tender to you the subsequent prospect. Based upon conscientious forethought you qualify to acquire a sizable revenue on your original property investment. By completing the subsequent attached form in a timely manner we will be able to finalize our estimation, and we feel assured you will acquire not only a lower rate of interest, but also a cash return that will fulfill all your holiday needs and more! Please go here to finalize this point of the contract. With warmest regards, Amalia Norman Should you prefer not to take gain of this holiday prospect you can go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_BOREAYTP.DKYZDGPL Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Sir/Madam,

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<000001c5f84c$7ab7dc80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Nolan Mitchell" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 15:10:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F84C.7AB7DC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F84C.7AB7DC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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	8	Windows 2003 Server
	9	Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
	10	Adobe Illustrator 11
	See more by this manufacturer
		Microsoft
		Symantec
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Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
by Microsoft

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by Microsoft

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Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
by Adobe

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Average Customer Review: 3D"5
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F84C.7AB7DC80-- From ngandjuivanessa@abjsa.com Sat Dec 03 20:17:18 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EiiVC-0004th-Dk for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:17:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21379 for ; Sat, 3 Dec 2005 20:16:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from 65.red-83-57-6.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.57.6.65] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Eiiq7-0001ZI-GP for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:38:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5f86e$cbd8c800$0100007f@localhost> From: "Nathaniel Thomas" To: Subject: Corel Draw Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 02:16:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F86E.CBD8C800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F86E.CBD8C800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 34 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 40 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 35 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F86E.CBD8C800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

TOP 10 NEW TITLES

ON SALE NOW!
	1	Office Pro 2003
	2	Adobe Photoshop 9.0
	3	Windows XP Pro
	4	Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro
	5	Flash MX 2004
	6	Corel Draw 12
	7	Norton Antivirus 2005
	8	Windows 2003 Server
	9	Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
	10	Adobe Illustrator 11
	See more by this manufacturer
		Microsoft
		Symantec
		Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
by Microsoft

ListPrice:		$550.00
OurPrice:		$69.95
YouSave:		$480.05 ( 87%)

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 49 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
by Microsoft

ListPrice:		! $200.00
OurPrice:		$49.95
YouSave:		$150.05 ( 75%)

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 47 reviews)

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5F9A0.127A0F80-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Mon Dec 05 18:27:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjPjy-0007Uc-8a for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:27:27 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA00602 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jB5N5qln021323; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jB5N5qKF021322; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:05:52 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bdsn4038.na.pg.com (mail3.pg.com [192.44.184.20]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jB5N5pG7021310 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from duker.jp@pg.com) pgSenderHost: bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41] Received: from bdc-notes041.na.pg.com (bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41]) by bdsn4038.na.pg.com (8.8.8/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jB5N5j15002436 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:05:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Features Profile in AS2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.10 March 22, 2002 From: duker.jp@pg.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:05:43 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on BDC-NOTES041.NA.PG.COM/PGI(Release 5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/05/2005 06:05:45 PM, Serialize complete at 12/05/2005 06:05:45 PM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 007EDEFB852570CE_=" Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 007EDEFB852570CE_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Kyle mentioned in his previous message, many end users as well as the=20 GS1 technology group (ecGIF) want additional features in AS2 software=20 systems to help manage operational complexity. In order to handle new AS2=20 Features such as the Certificate Exchange Message, AS2 Reliability, and=20 Multiple Attachments; we first need to ensure that AS2 software systems=20 using new Features will not cause problems for existing AS2 systems.=20 I believe that new AS2 systems need: a) a header telling other AS2 systems with which they correspond that they = support new Feature(s), and if the other AS2 systems also support new=20 Features, b) a header (e.g. EDIINT?Features) advising which Feature(s) the new AS2 so= ftware system supports, and c) an expanded "profile" capability to keep track of the status of items=20 (a) & (b) for each AS2 system with which it communicates. I'm proposing a variation of Kyle's option #2 (using a new header, e.g. ED= IINT?Features): 1. AS2 systems supporting any new Feature would use AS2?Version 1.2. This=20 will tell other AS2 version 1.2 systems that they can send the=20 EDIINT?Features header to a system also using AS2?Version 1.2. Version 1.0= and 1.1 systems could successfully receive=20 an AS2?Version 1.2 header, but version 1.2 systems would not send them the = EDIINT?Features header. 2. The EDIINT?Features header would indicate which Feature(s) a sending sys= tem supports.=20 3. An AS2?Version 1.2 system would keep track in a "profile" for every othe= r AS2 system with=20 which it communicates: - the AS2?Version number of that system, and if applicable, - the EDIINT?Feature(s) that the system supports Please let me know your thoughts about this proposal, and any issues that=20 you may see with it. =20 John Duker e-Commerce Specialist Procter & Gamble and Chair GS1 ecGIF ----- Forwarded by John Duker-JP/PGI on 12/05/2005 05:19 PM ----- "Kyle Meadors" Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org 12/01/2005 12:04 PM =20 To: cc:=20 Subject: profiles in AS2 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature=20 profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra=20 feature. Using "AS2?Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could=20 support compression even if the actual message did not contain the=20 compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their=20 trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include=20 I?Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple?Attachments (oil & gas users)=20 and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal?mart, P&G and others GS1=20 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the=20 future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new=20 features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive = it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that=20 profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to=20 keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older,=20 existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when = getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best=20 or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2?Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2=20 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression=20 (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT?Features. The features header shows all=20 features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT?Features: CEM, multiple?attachment)=20 but like AS2?Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message=20 using that feature. For example, "CEM?Profile" for CEM messages. This=20 could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. = MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 --=_alternative 007EDEFB852570CE_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As Kyle mentioned in his previous me= ssage, many end users as well as the GS1 technology group (ecGIF) want addi= tional features in AS2 software systems to help manage operational complexi= ty. In order to handle new AS2 Features such as the Certificate Exchange Me= ssage, AS2 Reliability, and Multiple Attachments; we first need to ensure t= hat AS2 software systems using new Features will not cause problems for exi= sting AS2 systems.

I believe that new AS2 systems need:=

a) a header telling other AS2 system= s with which they correspond that they support new Feature(s), and if the o= ther AS2 systems also support new Features,
b) a header (e.g. EDIINT–Features) advising which Feature(s) the new AS2 software system supports, an= d
c) an expanded "profile" c= apability to keep track of the status of items (a) & (b) for each AS2 s= ystem with which it communicates.

I'm proposing a variation of Kyle's = option #2 (using a new header, e= .g. EDIINT–Features):

1. AS2 systems supporting any new Feature= would use AS2–Version 1.2. This will tell other AS2 version 1.2 syst= ems that they can send the EDIINT–Features header to a system also us= ing AS2–Version 1.2. Version 1.0 and 1.1 systems could successf= ully receive an AS2–Version 1.2 header, but version 1.2 systems would= not send them the EDIINT–Features header.

2. The EDIINT–Features hea= der would indicate which Feature(s) a sending system supports.

3. An AS2–Version 1.2 syst= em would keep track in a "profile" for every other AS2 system wit= h which it communicates:
- the AS2–Version nu= mber of that system, and if applicable= ,
- the EDIINT–Feature(s) that the sy= stem supports

Please let me know your thoughts about th= is proposal, and any issues that you may see with it.

John Duker
e-Commerce Specialist
Procter & Gamble
and
Chair GS1 ecGIF

----- Forwarded by J= ohn Duker-JP/PGI on 12/05/2005 05:19 PM -----

"Kyle Meadors" <kyle= @drummondgroup.com>
Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org
12/01/2005 12:04 PM

To: &nbs= p; <ietf-ediint@imc.org>
cc: &nbs= p;
Subject:= profiles in AS2

I am needing the opinion of the AS2 commu= nity on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression= was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2–Version: 1.1" in= a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual me= ssage did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers i= n knowing if their trading partners could support compression.

Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I&#= 8211;Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple–Attachments (oil & g= as users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal–mart, P&G and o= thers GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others = in the future.

My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new featu= res. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e= .g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)= ? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new F= eature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing im= plementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an = unrecognized MA message).

Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best o= r other ideas.

1. Use AS2–Version header to indica= te UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Relia= bility). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but= not an actual CEM message).

2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT–Fe= atures. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT= –Features: CEM, multiple–attachment) but like AS2–Version= does not indicate every message contains profile.

3. Use a new header for each feature whic= h is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM̵= 1;Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in onl= y profiles it recognizes.

4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2= Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what featu= res receiving UA can support.

Kyle Meadors
Principal, Test Process
Drummond Group Inc.
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------=_NextPart_001_0001_74452E4E.43C7602B-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_25D75DFD.6C655A7E-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Tue Dec 06 17:26:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjlGy-00054j-0Y for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 17:26:57 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA00168 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jB6M6W1h085141; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jB6M6W87085140; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:06:32 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ironport.qrs.com (mail2.inovis.com [204.146.209.3]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jB6M6WVi085133 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard.bigelow@inovis.com) Received: from rca-exchange.itlogon.com ([10.17.2.17]) by ironport.qrs.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2005 14:06:31 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,223,1131350400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="48575674:sNHT232586664" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5FAB1.501B7146" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:06:30 -0800 Message-ID: <39C20B572219D749B2386155AD78F4AB057C4E@rca-exchange.itlogon.com> Thread-Topic: profiles in AS2 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUw From: "Richard Bigelow" To: "Kyle Meadors" , Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FAB1.501B7146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FAB1.501B7146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

These are my comments. Option = 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of = Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

1. This option requires that = implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want = to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not = recommended.

2. The features header allows = the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. = A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled = features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every = message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. = Recommended.

A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to = partners that would rarely receive normal messages.

3. This option allows receivers to = ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without = looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the = sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had = done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B = could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. = B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then = send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have = to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file = and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now = support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that = the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. = 3 is not recommended.

4. Before sending a message to B, A = should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. = Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is = ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple = Attachments. Not recommended.

None of these protocols fully = addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the = partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the = other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For = CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and = unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates = manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they = would be automatically updated on each other's = capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December = 01, 2005 9:04 AM
To: = ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: profiles in = AS2

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which = returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can = support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FAB1.501B7146-- From reynoza@horneinsurance.com Tue Dec 06 23:53:30 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjrJ4-0004bo-Pl; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:53:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA07516; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:52:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ejreg-0007bf-NC; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:15:52 -0500 Received: from ny-lancastr-cadent1-grp4a-a-170.bflony.adelphia.net ([24.50.92.170]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EjrIy-0007p6-P4; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 23:53:24 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.0] ([24.50.92.170]) by msn.com (Sendmail 8.0.3) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT67014 for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:53:28 -0600 Message-ID: <712n479v.3724932@msn.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:53:28 -0600 From: "Lori Spence" User-Agent: Omni Way Webmail X-Register: 269079 X-User: apron MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dvsqhmanet@ietf.org Cc: dxnvmrouting-discussion-admin@ietf.org, e3@ietf.org, eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Mortagge ratee approvedd Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------JavaMail.498078824057" X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------JavaMail.498078824057 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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rlPO6t3vgje84h0vectr3vOiN73qXS972+ve98JXvNgFjWnra9/74je/+t0vf/vr3/8COMAC HjCBC9zgA+eXuwpeMIMb7OAHQzjCEp4whSts4ArTmMMa3jCHO+z4mXc4xCIeMYlLbOITozjF Kl4xi1vs4hfDOMYynjGNa2Wyl2M4xzreMY081OMkYUXIQh4ykYts5CMjOclKXjKTm+zkJ0M5 yogJAQA7 --------------JavaMail.498078824057-- From Eberya@optonline.net Wed Dec 07 01:18:35 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EjsdP-0002gb-3O; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:18:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16736; Wed, 7 Dec 2005 01:17:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200512070617.BAA16736@ietf.org> Received: from [58.50.95.90] (helo=lh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ejsz1-0001rQ-QE; Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:40:57 -0500 From: "Sang Greene" To: ediint-archive@ietf.org Subject: Re: Important question Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:13:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_XJSKPEYN.HXWZISNE" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XJSKPEYN.HXWZISNE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sir/Madam, Your specific case has been judged to the essential parties, and upon well thought-out contemplation, we are able to suggest to you the next opening offer. Based upon well thought-out contemplation you meet the requirements to be given a sizable return on your original property investment. By completing the next attached form in a timely manner we will be able to conclude our estimation, and we feel convinced you will be given not only a better rate of interest, but also a cash return that will accomplish all your holiday needs and more! Please go here to conclude this part of the contract. With kind salutations, Sang Greene Should you prefer not to benefit of this holiday opening offer you can go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XJSKPEYN.HXWZISNE Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Sir/Madam,

Your specific case has been judged to the essential parties, and upon well thought-out contemplation, we are able to suggest to you the next opening offer.

Based upon well thought-out contemplation you meet the requirements to be given a sizable return on your original property investment.

By completing the next attached form in a timely manner we will be able to conclude our estimation, and we feel convinced you will be given not only a better rate of interest, but also a cash return that will accomplish all your holiday needs and more!

Please go here to conclude this part of the contract.

With kind salutations,

Sang Greene

Should you prefer not to benefit of this holiday opening offer you can go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_XJSKPEYN.HXWZISNE-- From Gguafgo@optonline.net Thu Dec 08 01:54:34 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkFfm-0003cm-FM; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 01:54:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04334; Thu, 8 Dec 2005 01:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EkG1c-000460-ES; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 02:17:09 -0500 Received: from [222.93.154.123] (helo=lh) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EkFfk-0006ws-Ok; Thu, 08 Dec 2005 01:54:33 -0500 From: "Lilian Bryson" To: ipcdn-admin@ietf.org Subject: Re: Important question Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:53:38 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_MZTTVVEL.MMXTAYES" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_MZTTVVEL.MMXTAYES Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sir/Madam, Your specific position has been calculated to the crucial commissions, and upon careful consideration, we are able to give to you the next offer. Based upon careful consideration you qualify to obtain a considerable rebate on your primary property investment. By completing the next attached form in a timely manner we will be able to conclude our review, and we feel sure you will obtain not only a decreased rate of interest, but also a cash return that will fulfill all your holiday needs and more! Please go here to conclude this juncture of the arrangement. With kind regards, Lilian Bryson Should you prefer not to take advantage of this holiday offer you can go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_MZTTVVEL.MMXTAYES Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Sir/Madam,

Your specific position has been calculated to the crucial commissions, and upon careful consideration, we are able to give to you the next offer.

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Please go here to conclude this juncture of the arrangement.

With kind regards,

Lilian Bryson

Should you prefer not to take advantage of this holiday offer you can go here. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_MZTTVVEL.MMXTAYES-- From ronnarae637@jmfco.com Fri Dec 09 05:08:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EkfAr-0005VG-GX; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:08:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA11132; Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:07:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EkfAg-00059K-SH; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:08:12 -0500 Received: from dslb-084-056-159-073.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.56.159.73]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EkfAQ-0004qx-N3; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:07:56 -0500 Received: (from tomcat@localhost) by 84.56.159.73 (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id j7CHmn1V082272 for eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 04:07:42 -0600 Message-ID: <923b017a.4162187@65.246.255.50> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 04:07:42 -0600 From: "Dixie Ferris" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.404 (Entity 5.367) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.450) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 84.56.159.73 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.780724, File::Scan 0.65, Archive::Zip 1.75 X-Recipient: Subject: Lowest rate approved Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_98515042==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_98515042==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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<000001c5fe76$2331f600$0100007f@localhost> From: "Seth Rogers" To: Subject: Buy OEM Software Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:14:29 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FE76.2331F600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FE76.2331F600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! 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Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

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   by Microsoft

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Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
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Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 39 reviews)
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FE76.2331F600-- From buchanan@badtransit.com Sun Dec 11 09:33:51 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ElSGs-0002pg-70; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:33:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA27320; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:32:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from 8.60.broadband4.iol.cz ([85.71.60.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ElSHR-0008KZ-Q5; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:34:27 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.9] ([85.71.60.8]) by hotmail.com (Sendmail 8.7.9) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT14971 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:33:30 -0600 Message-ID: <086n519u.4603087@hotmail.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=bookish; d=hotmail.com; b=L2laNEAT55R3dGlucspYJHml26khUDBVChjHBYfARftTkAyRpV9xrdvNFiuCPAHaBgzQyKN5kMfYlaMG; X-Display: Full X-List: hadamard.usenet Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:33:30 -0600 From: "Julian Newell" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dxnvmrouting-discussion-admin@ietf.org Subject: Re-finance before rates skyrocket Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_57568063==.OLA" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0550-0, 10.12.2005), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0cff8c3ec906d056784362c06f5f88c1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_57568063==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUq7zThqOl7zJvCzg5prYUYm3vvKdL33ra9/74AQj7t0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_57568063==.OLA-- From customerservice@besttripdeals.com Sun Dec 11 13:04:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ElVYf-0000ad-0d for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:04:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA18148 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:03:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [85.206.224.162] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ElVZ3-0006i7-Vl for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:04:52 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:03:51 +0200 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:03:51 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c5fea7$21345b00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Braden Jackson" To: Subject: Wow check out this huge enlargement patch sale! Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 20:03:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FEA7.21345B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FEA7.21345B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! 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Name	Patches	Regular	Now
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FEA7.21345B00-- From steinar@bereschit.com Sun Dec 11 14:31:08 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ElWuZ-0002bu-8w for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:31:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28043 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:30:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [203.240.211.235] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ElWv4-0001NJ-0z for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:31:39 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:37:01 +0900 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:37:01 +0900 Message-ID: <000001c5feb3$43cc7100$0100007f@localhost> From: "Yahir Lee" To: Subject: Last offer- Discount special for PE patch almost over! Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:37:01 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FEB3.43CC7100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FEB3.43CC7100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.befaso.net/pt/?46&bumcf ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C5FEB3.43CC7100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

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Name	Patches	Regular	Now
Steel Package	10 Patches	$79.95	$49.95	Free shipping
Silver Package	25 Patches	$129.95	$99.95	Free shipping and exercise manual included
Gold Package	40 Patches	$189.95	$149.95	Free shipping and exercise manual included
Platinum Package	65 Patches	$259.95	$199.95	Free shipping and exercise manual included

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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqtIeAqOl7zJvCzg5prmxcO3vvKdL33ra9/74w3uGt0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_58222679==.OLA-- From Pbodi@optonline.com Tue Dec 13 12:16:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EmDlh-0003Vf-Ur; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:16:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22878; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:15:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmDmZ-00007x-DC; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:17:45 -0500 Received: from [62.183.121.249] (helo=lh) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1EmDlU-0000WB-Tv; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:16:37 -0500 From: "Stephen Nicholas" To: sigtran-request@ietf.org Subject: Re: What you said Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:12:01 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:52:04 -0800 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:52:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c601d2$9323e180$0100007f@localhost> From: "Chad Foster" To: Subject: Make her worship you! Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:52:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D2.9323E180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D2.9323E180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.oklasc.com/pt/?46&tuxqhg ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D2.9323E180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results.

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Name	Patches	Regular	Now
Steel Package	10 Patches	$79.95	$49.95	Free shipping
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D2.9323E180-- From 3000@afptennis.com Thu Dec 15 14:36:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Emyta-0004R6-72 for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:36:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22876 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:34:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpe-70-120-217-254.houston.res.rr.com ([70.120.217.254] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmyuY-00077o-Kx for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:37:08 -0500 Received: from [205.248.102.79] (port=25 helo=mailc.microsoft.com) by mailc.microsoft.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:35:24 -0600 Received: from [32.97.182.141] (port=25 helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com with smtp for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:35:24 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c601d8$81453d00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Daniel Diaz" <3000@afptennis.com> To: Subject: Take advantage of special discounts now guys! Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:35:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D8.81453D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D8.81453D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing- no more ripoffs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere! A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results. Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind! As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself! Here's the link to check out! http://www.oklasc.com/pt/?46&exxmrd ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D8.81453D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finally the real thing - no more tip-offs! Enhancment Patches are hot right now, VERY hot! Unfortunately, most are cheap imitiations and do very little to increase your size and stamina. Well this is the real thing, not an imitation! One of the very originals, the absolutely strongest Patch available, anywhere!

A top team of British scientists and medical doctors have worked to develop the state-of-the-art Pen1s Enlargment Patch delivery system which automatically increases pen1s size up to 3-4 full inches. The patches are the easiest and most effective way to increase your size. You won't have to take pills, get under the knife to perform expensive and very painful surgery, use any pumps or other devices. No one will ever find out that you are using our product. Just apply one patch on your body and wear it for 3 days and you will start noticing dramatic results.

Millions of men are taking advantage of this revolutionary new product - Don't be left behind!

As an added incentive, they are offering huge discount specials right now, check out the site to see for yourself!

Here's the link to check out!

Name	Patches	Regular	Now
Steel Package	10 Patches	$79.95	$49.95	Free shipping
Silver Package	25 Patches	$129.95	$99.95	Free shipping and exercise manual included
Gold Package	40 Patches	$189.95	$149.95	Free shipping and exercise manual included
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C601D8.81453D00-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Thu Dec 15 17:37:57 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1En1jW-0004lM-Rb for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:37:57 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25817 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:36:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBFMKuaN026149; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:20:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBFMKurX026148; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:20:56 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from drummondgroup.com (drummondgroup.com [161.58.166.198]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBFMKtH9026141 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:20:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kyle@drummondgroup.com) Received: from KYLEDGILAPTOP (pcp517486pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.53.139.87]) by drummondgroup.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jBFMKqVo016391 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:20:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200512152220.jBFMKqVo016391@drummondgroup.com> From: "Kyle Meadors" To: Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:20:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C60193.8640C5D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUwACUYaHABoMkcMA== In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C60193.8640C5D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002A_01C60193.8640C5D0" ------=_NextPart_001_002A_01C60193.8640C5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize=85 =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2=96Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start=96up conditions as = Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we = can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2=96Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your = product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their = significant backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI _____ =20 From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide = everything we=92d need. =20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement = all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and = many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not = recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to = know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows = what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of = the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some = state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some = feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to = all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would = have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't = understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But = it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver = can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code = indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in = this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A = could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but = how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The = original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance = if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, = and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a = feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not = for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's = capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, = which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option = 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most = features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are = unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial = certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the = first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis HYPERLINK "mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com"richard.bigelow@inovis.com _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2=96Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their = trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include = I=96Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple=96Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal=96mart, P&G and others GS1 = companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature = receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully = when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is = best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2=96Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression = (e.g. =931.2=94 indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT=96Features. The features header shows = all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT=96Features: CEM, = multiple=96attachment) but like AS2=96Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the = message using that feature. For example, =93CEM=96Profile=94 for CEM messages. = This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a =93Capability Query=94 AS2 Message which returns a = Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_002A_01C60193.8640C5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Not a lot of comments on this = thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (Features = header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2

1 in favor Option 3 where filtering = is done on a message

Still does not fully address the = initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just = can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will likely be = closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do = others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version = 1.2)?

For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact = your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with this = choice?

Kyle Meadors

DGI

From: Tim = McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December = 07, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Seems to me that a combination of = features 2 and 4 would provide everything we’d = need.

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow
Sent: Tuesday, December = 06, 2005 5:07 PM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

These are my comments. Option = 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of = Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

None of these protocols fully = addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the = partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the = other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 = version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For = CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and = unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates = manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they = would be automatically updated on each other's = capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which = returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005

------=_NextPart_001_002A_01C60193.8640C5D0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C60193.8640C5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-meadors-ediint-features-header-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-meadors-ediint-features-header-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Draft EDI-INT Features Header August 2005=20 =20 =20 Private K. Meadors=20 Internet-Draft Drummond Group Inc.=20 Document: draft-meadors-ediint-features- August 2005=20 header-00.txt=20 Expires: February 2006 =20 Target Category: Informational =20 =20 =20 =20 EDI-INT Features Header=20 draft-meadors-ediint-features-header-00.txt=20 =20 By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.=20 =20 Status of this Memo=20 =20 This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with=20 all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026. =20 =20 Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering=20 Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that = other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts.=20 =20 Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months = and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any=20 time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference=20 material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."=20 =20 The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at=20 http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.html=20 The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at=20 http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.=20 =20 Any questions, comments, and reports of defects or ambiguities in=20 this specification may be sent to the mailing list for the EDIINT=20 working group of the IETF, using the address .=20 Requests to subscribe to the mailing list should be addressed to=20 .=20 =20 =20 Abstract=20 =20 With the maturity of the EDI-INT standard of AS1, AS2 and AS3,=20 applications and additional features are being built upon the basic=20 secure transport functionality. These features are not necessarily=20 =20 =20 Meadors Expires - February 2006 [Page 1]=20 =0CDraft EDI-INT Features Header August 2005 = =20 =20 supported by all EDI-INT applications and could cause potential=20 problems with implementations =20 =20 Conventions used in this document=20 =20 The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",=20 "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this = document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119.=20 =20 Feedback Instructions=20 =20 NOTE TO RFC EDITOR: This section should be removed by the RFC editor = prior to publication.=20 =20 If you want to provide feedback on this draft, follow these=20 guidelines:=20 =20 -Send feedback via e-mail to kyle@drummondgroup.com, with "EDIINT=20 Features Header" in the Subject field.=20 =20 -Be specific as to what section you are referring to, preferably=20 quoting the portion that needs modification, after which you state=20 your comments.=20 =20 -If you are recommending some text to be replaced with your suggested = text, again, quote the section to be replaced, and be clear on the=20 section in question.=20 =20 =20 Table of Contents=20 =20 1. Introduction...................................................2=20 2. EDIINT Features Header Syntax..................................3=20 3. Implementation and Processing..................................3=20 4. EDI-INT Applications...........................................3=20 5. Security Considerations........................................4=20 6. References.....................................................4=20 6.1 Normative References.......................................4=20 6.2 Informative References.....................................4=20 Author's Address..................................................4=20 =20 =20 1. Introduction=20 =20 EDI-INT applications provide for a secure means of payload document=20 transport. The original intent was for transport of a single EDI or=20 XML document. However, as AS1 [AS1], AS2 [AS2] and AS3 [AS3] matured, = other features and application logic were implemented upon EDI-INT=20 standards. Since these features go beyond but do not violate the=20 =20 =20 Meadors Expires - February 2006 [Page 2]=20 =0CDraft EDI-INT Features Header August 2005 = =20 =20 basic premise of EDI-INT, a means is needed to communicate to trading = partners features which are supported by the originating user agent.=20 The EDIINT Features header indicates the capability of the user agent = to support the listed feature with its trading partner without out- of-band communication and agreement.=20 =20 2. EDIINT Features Header Syntax=20 =20 The EDIINT Features header can appear in the header section of an=20 AS1, AS2 and AS3 message. Its BNF syntax is listed below.=20 =20 Feature =3D "EDIINT-Features: " Feature-Name 1*("," Feature-Name)=20 =20 Feature-Name =3D Feature-Token=20 =20 Feature-Token =3D %d48-57 / ; 0-9=20 %d65- =0D 90 / ; A-Z=20 %d97-122 / ; a-z=20 "-"=20 =20 The Feature-Token allows for feature names to be specified and can=20 only contain alphanumeric characters along with the hyphen. Feature=20 names are case-insensitive.=20 =20 3. Implementation and Processing=20 =20 The EDIINT Features header indicates the originating user agent is=20 capable of supporting the features listed. The feature header MUST be = present in all messages transmitted by the user agent and not just=20 messages which utilize the feature. Upon examination of the feature=20 header, the trading partner SHOULD assume the user agent is capable=20 of receiving messages utilizing any of the features listed.=20 =20 The features listed MUST be supported by existing IETF RFC or RFC- track Internet-draft standards. These standards MUST describe the=20 feature name which is listed in the header and the means which it=20 should be used.=20 =20 =20 4. EDI-INT Applications=20 =20 Since AS1 uses email and the EDIINT Features header is not a=20 registered header with IANA, the header MUST be preceded by a "X-" to = be used. If the receiving trading partner does not support EDIINT=20 Features, it can choose to ignore the header because of the "X-".=20 Because AS2 and AS3 utilize transports of HTTP and FTP, respectively, = which allow the application to ignore headers which it does not=20 recognize, the addition of the EDIINT Features header in AS2 and AS3=20 =20 =20 Meadors Expires - February 2006 [Page 3]=20 =0CDraft EDI-INT Features Header August 2005 = =20 =20 can be done without affecting trading partners who have not=20 implemented the header.=20 =20 AS2 and AS3 applications currently use a version header, AS2-Version=20 and AS3-Version, respectively, to indicate functional support. The=20 EDIINT Features header tremendously improves the purpose and function = of the old version header. However, to provide a connection from the=20 old version header and the EDIINT Features header, AS2 and AS3=20 applications which implement the EDIINT Features header MUST use the=20 version value of "1.2" to indicate the support of the Feature header. = Also, since version "1.1" indicates the implementation supports=20 compression [COMPRESS] and "1.2" builds upon "1.1", AS2-Version or=20 AS3-Version of "1.2" MUST support compression regardless of whether=20 it is mentioned as a feature in the EDIINT Features header.=20 =20 5. Security Considerations=20 =20 Because headers are often un-encrypted, it may be possible for the=20 feature header to be altered. Trading partners MAY consult out-of- band to confirm feature support.=20 =20 6. References=20 6.1 Normative References=20 =20 [AS1] RFC3335 =93MIME-based Secure Peer-to-Peer Business Data=20 Interchange over the Internet using SMTP=94, T. Harding, R.=20 Drummond, C. Shih, 2002.=20 =20 [AS2] RFC4130 =93MIME-based Secure Peer-to-Peer Business Data=20 Interchange over the Internet using HTTP=94, D. Moberg, R.=20 Drummond, 2005.=20 =20 [AS3] draft-ietf-ediint-as3-03.txt =93MIME-based Secure Peer-to-Peer=20 Business Data Interchange over the Internet using FTP=94, T.=20 Harding, R. Scott, 2005.=20 =20 [COMPRESS] draft-ietf-ediint-compression-04.txt =93Compressed Data = for=20 EDIINT=94, T. Harding, 2005.=20 =20 6.2 Informative References=20 =20 [RFC2828] RFC2828 =93Internet Security Glossary=94, R. Shirley, May = 2000.=20 =20 [RFC2119] RFC2119 =93Key Words for Use in RFC's to Indicate = Requirement=20 Levels=94, S.Bradner, March 1997.=20 =20 =20 Author's Address=20 =20 =20 =20 Meadors Expires - February 2006 [Page 4]=20 =0CDraft EDI-INT Features Header August 2005 = =20 =20 Kyle Meadors=20 Drummond Group Inc.=20 4700 Bryant Irvin Court, Suite 303=20 Fort Worth, TX 76107 USA=20 Email: kyle@drummondgroup.com=20 =20 =20 Copyright Notice=20 Copyright (C) The Internet Society 2005. This document is subject=20 to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and=20 except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights.=20 =20 This document and the information contained herein are provided on an = "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS = OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET=20 ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,=20 INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE=20 INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED=20 WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.=20 =20 =20 =20 Meadors Expires - February 2006 [Page 5]=20 =0C ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C60193.8640C5D0-- From akademist@blairhagen.com Thu Dec 15 19:45:25 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1En3iu-0002oY-W8 for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:45:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA07528 for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:44:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from 68-116-180-129.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com ([68.116.180.129] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1En3kN-0005aE-TL for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:46:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60203$df3b4a00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Kaden Clark" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? 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Should you decide not to acquire this opportunity any further say no more. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_NRZHLBSD.ZTUOBPZN-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Fri Dec 16 03:55:27 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnBN8-0004GG-QP for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 03:55:27 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19229 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 03:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBG8hOOG089563; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:43:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBG8hOTV089562; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:43:24 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from zero.rotterdam.covast.com (mail2.covast.com [193.67.131.162]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBG8hMPv089553 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:43:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Gijsbert.intVeld@covast.com) Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6021C.C1E2DD9C" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:43:14 +0100 Message-ID: <3FFE66DB82C76146A3227AF6C4DF5D818898E7@zero.rotterdam.covast.com> Thread-Topic: profiles in AS2 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUwACUYaHABoMkcMAAVnz2g From: "Gijsbert in 't Veld" To: "Kyle Meadors" , Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6021C.C1E2DD9C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm in favor of the features header in combination with the version indicator, but the features (capabilities) should always be negotiated during session setup. For each capability, the lowest "level" wins. So if A sets up a connection with B and requests "Multiple = attachments=3DYes" then B could say "Multiple attachments=3DNo". The result will then be "Multiple attachments=3DNo". =20 Also, the mininum AS2 protocol version supported should be 1.0. All the AS2 implementions should be backwards compatible. Detecting an older version then the one that will support feature negotiation always means that there are no features to be negotiated. =20 That way it's very flexible. This is how it's done in other major protocols as well (for example OFTP). =20 Best, Gijsbert in 't Veld Covast CTO =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize... =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2-Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start-up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI ________________________________ From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need. =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6021C.C1E2DD9C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’m in favor of the features = header in combination with the version indicator, but the features = (capabilities) should always be negotiated during session setup. For each capability, the = lowest “level” wins. So if A sets up a connection with B and requests “Multiple attachments=3DYes” then B could say “Multiple = attachments=3DNo”. The result will then be “Multiple = attachments=3DNo”.

Also, the mininum AS2 protocol = version supported should be 1.0. All the AS2 implementions should be backwards compatible. Detecting an older version then the one that will support = feature negotiation always means that there are no features to be = negotiated.

That way it’s very flexible. = This is how it’s done in other major protocols as well (for example = OFTP).

Best,

Gijsbert in ‘t = Veld

Covast = CTO

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December = 15, 2005 11:21 PM
To: = ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Not a lot of comments on this = thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (Features = header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2

1 in favor Option 3 where filtering = is done on a message

Still does not fully address the = initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just = can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on = this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version = 1.2)?

For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact = your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their = significant backward compatibility problems with this = choice?

Kyle Meadors

DGI

From: Tim = McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December = 07, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Seems to me that a combination of = features 2 and 4 would provide everything we’d = need.

These are my comments. Option = 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of = Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

None of these protocols fully = addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the = partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the = other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 = version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For = CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned = to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates = manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they = would be automatically updated on each other's = capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which = returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can = support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6029E.06465A00-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Fri Dec 16 17:49:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EnOO8-0007oQ-SQ for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:49:21 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27730 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBGMaQ24092606; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:36:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBGMaQpF092605; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bdsn4035.na.pg.com (mail2.pg.com [192.44.184.19]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBGMaOx5092595 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:36:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from duker.jp@pg.com) pgSenderHost: bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41] Received: from bdc-notes041.na.pg.com (bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41]) by bdsn4035.na.pg.com (8.8.8/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jBGMaAuP001187 for ; Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:36:18 -0500 (EST) To: "Gijsbert in 't Veld" , Cc: "Kyle Meadors" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.10 March 22, 2002 From: duker.jp@pg.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:36:08 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on BDC-NOTES041.NA.PG.COM/PGI(Release 5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/16/2005 05:36:18 PM, Serialize complete at 12/16/2005 05:36:18 PM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 007C283F852570D9_=" Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 007C283F852570D9_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I prefer Richard Bigelow's suggestion of an addition (or variant) to=20 Option 2 vs. negotiating during a session setup (which could be a=20 significant change to existing AS2 processes). An originator could send a = message to all its trading partners when its=20 capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content,=20 and would be sent only to partners who are using AS2-Version 1.2 or=20 greater (indicating they support the Feature Header). This would ensure=20 that partners would be notified of new capabilities prior to the=20 originator using the new capability.=20 As a fail-safe, all partners should send the Feature Header to partners=20 who are using AS2-Version 1.2 or greater with every message, in case the=20 Header-only message is lost or not processed. This would require software implementations to keep state information=20 (probably in a partner profile) recording the AS2-Version, and indication=20 of which Features each partner supports. Do other AS2 software vendors object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)? Can anyone see any backward compatibility problems with Option 2 (using=20 the AS2-Version 1.2 indicator) in communicating with version 1.0 or 1.1=20 products? Would existing AS2 products (or products already supporting Option 2 in=20 test) handle a Header-only message? best regards, John Duker Procter & Gamble "Gijsbert in 't Veld" Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org 12/16/2005 03:43 AM =20 To: "Kyle Meadors" , cc:=20 Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 I'm in favor of the features header in combination with the version=20 indicator, but the features (capabilities) should always be negotiated=20 during session setup. For each capability, the lowest "level" wins. So if=20 A sets up a connection with B and requests "Multiple attachments=3DYes" the= n=20 B could say "Multiple attachments=3DNo". The result will then be "Multiple = attachments=3DNo". =20 Also, the mininum AS2 protocol version supported should be 1.0. All the=20 AS2 implementions should be backwards compatible. Detecting an older=20 version then the one that will support feature negotiation always means=20 that there are no features to be negotiated. =20 That way it's very flexible. This is how it's done in other major=20 protocols as well (for example OFTP). =20 Best, Gijsbert in 't Veld Covast CTO --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize? =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2?Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start?up conditions as Richard=20 pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual=20 setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can = get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with=20 AS2?Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, = including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant=20 backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide=20 everything we'd need. =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially=20 supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement=20 all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and=20 many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not=20 recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know = the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows=20 what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any = of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update=20 some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting=20 some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all = its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would=20 have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this=20 capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal=20 messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand,=20 and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it=20 does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can = receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could=20 send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature=20 header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code=20 indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed=20 file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other=20 mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that=20 feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the=20 feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender=20 could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not=20 recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and = check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, = A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not=20 for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any=20 messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's=20 capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the=20 basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal=20 messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can=20 then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably=20 works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test=20 messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or = exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first=20 time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's=20 capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature=20 profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra=20 feature. Using "AS2?Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could=20 support compression even if the actual message did not contain the=20 compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their=20 trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include=20 I?Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple?Attachments (oil & gas users)=20 and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal?mart, P&G and others GS1=20 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the=20 future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new=20 features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive = it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that=20 profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to=20 keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older,=20 existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when = getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best=20 or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2?Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2=20 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression=20 (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT?Features. The features header shows all=20 features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT?Features: CEM, multiple?attachment)=20 but like AS2?Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message=20 using that feature. For example, "CEM?Profile" for CEM messages. This=20 could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. = MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:=20 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 --=_alternative 007C283F852570D9_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I prefer Richard Bigelow's suggestio= n of an addition (or variant) to Option 2 vs. negotiating during a session = setup (which could be a significant change to existing AS2 processes). An originator could send a message t= o all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message= would have headers only, no content, and would be sent only to partners wh= o are using AS2-Version 1.2 or greater (indicating they support the Feature= Header). This would ensure that partners would be notified of new capabili= ties prior to the originator using the new capability.

As a fail-safe, all partners should send = the Feature Header to partners who are using AS2-Version 1.2 or greater wit= h every message, in case the Header-only message is lost or not processed.<= /font>

This would require software implementatio= ns to keep state information (probably in a partner profile) recording the = AS2-Version, and indication of which Features each partner supports.

Do other AS2 software vendors object t= o Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)?

Can anyone see any backward compatibil= ity problems with Option 2 (using the AS2-Version 1.2 indicator) in communi= cating with version 1.0 or 1.1 products?

Would existing AS2 products (or produc= ts already supporting Option 2 in test) handle a Header-only message?

best regards,
John Duker
Procter & Gamble

"Gijsbert in 't Veld" &= lt;Gijsbert.intVeld@covast.com>
Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org

12/16/2005 03:43 AM

To: &nbs= p; "Kyle Meadors" <kyle@drummondgroup.com&= gt;, <ietf-ediint@imc.org>
cc: &nbs= p;
Subject:= RE: profiles in AS2

I'm in favor of the featu= res header in combination with the version indicator, but the features (cap= abilities) should always be negotiated during session setup. For each capab= ility, the lowest "level" wins. So if A sets up a connection with B and req= uests "Multiple attachments=3DYes" then B could say "Multiple attachments= =3DNo". The result will then be "Multiple attachments=3DNo".

Also, the mininum AS2 pro= tocol version supported should be 1.0. All the AS2 implementions should be = backwards compatible. Detecting an older version then the one that will sup= port feature negotiation always means that there are no features to be nego= tiated.

That way it's very flexib= le. This is how it's done in other major protocols as well (for example OFT= P).

Best,
Gijsbert in 't Veld
Covast CTO
--------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------
From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meador= s
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:21 PM
To: ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2
Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to su= mmarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (F= eatures header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2
1 in favor Option 3 where= filtering is done on a message

Still does not fully addr= ess the initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perha= ps that just can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will= likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in= on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version 1.2)?

For those AS2 vendors sup= porting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed = in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility pro= blems with this choice?

Kyle Meadors
DGI

From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCar= thy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2

Seems to me that a combin= ation of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need.

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Big= elow
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2

These are my comments. &n= bsp;Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker'= s memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

1. This option requires t= hat implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. = Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't w= ant to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended.

2. The features hea= der allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's = (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. &n= bsp;A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the control= led features, but does allow compression. A should update some state = for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some featu= re. Recommended.

A possible variant of (2)= is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when= its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no co= ntent. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partne= rs that would rarely receive normal messages.

3. This option allows rec= eivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messag= es without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mec= hanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. &= nbsp;Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compres= sed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then = the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupporte= d-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. &n= bsp;In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could= remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how = would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The origi= nal intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance= if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended.

4. Before sending a messa= ge to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the f= eature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each ti= me. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, = like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended.

None of these protocols f= ully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, h= ow do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must = assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hope= fully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at= least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover= each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. &nbs= p;For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypt= ed and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificat= es manually.

Alternatively, the partne= rs would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, th= ey would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meador= s
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM
To: ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: profiles in AS2

I am needing the opinion of the AS2 commu= nity on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression= was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2–Version: 1.1" in= a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual me= ssage did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers i= n knowing if their trading partners could support compression.

Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I&#= 8211;Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple–Attachments (oil & g= as users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal–mart, P&G and o= thers GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others = in the future.

My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new featu= res. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e= .g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)= ? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new F= eature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing im= plementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an = unrecognized MA message).

Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best o= r other ideas.

1. Use AS2–Version header to indica= te UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Relia= bility). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but= not an actual CEM message).

2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT–Fe= atures. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT= –Features: CEM, multiple–attachment) but like AS2–Version= does not indicate every message contains profile.

3. Use a new header for each feature whic= h is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM̵= 1;Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in onl= y profiles it recognizes.

4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2= Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what featu= res receiving UA can support.

Kyle Meadors
Principal, Test Process
Drummond Group Inc.
615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005=

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005<= /font>

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005<= /font>

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Name	Patches	Regular	Now
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Name	Patches	Regular	Now
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Should you wish not to get hold of this offer any further say no more. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_DKMNILQF.WEASAWRO-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Sat Dec 17 10:59:32 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EneT6-0003LR-0H for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:59:32 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09184 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBHFnMlO086924; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:49:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBHFnLcK086923; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:49:21 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.cyclonecommerce.com (mail1.cyclonecommerce.com [216.138.89.185]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBHFnL9g086913 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C60321.6DE89CAF" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 08:49:13 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: profiles in AS2 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUwACUYaHABoMkcMAAAz5dQ From: "Dale Moberg" To: "Kyle Meadors" , Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C60321.6DE89CAF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities. =20 Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to the header? (So we would have somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" as the header value?) =20 I take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only use that form of request when the original has an AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference here is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability query and response pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features header may waste a few bytes per message.=20 =20 How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send one. If they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new features would not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other side both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header. =20 What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message with a higher version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to advertise itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation? =20 What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" value? Are implementations expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says "A should update some state for every message received from B" I think it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce a change in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a version greater than 1.1. =20 So far the specifications have not really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says=20 =20 The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the value of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to=20 determine which version of this specification, should the specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used to package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the=20 version header is missing. =20 AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT =20 A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send=20 compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version=20 header of "1.1" or greater.=20 =20 =20 It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is version 1.0. =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize... =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2-Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start-up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI ________________________________ From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need. =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C60321.6DE89CAF Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The consensus seems to be that it = should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of = Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user = requirements get specified, that encoding would become inconvenient to support. So = moving to an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities.

Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this = header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly = pertains to AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an “X-“ preface to the = header? (So we would have somemething like “X-EdiintFeatures” as the = header value?)

I take it that there is some = concern about the waste of sending this header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when requested). = While that might be more elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only = use that form of request when the original has an AS2-Version of = “1.2”? My preference here is not to try to develop option 4 into a new = capability query and response pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features = header may waste a few bytes per message.

How will existing applications = respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included “EdiintFeatures” header and also never send one. If they = never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be = sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new features would = not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. = So it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other side both = has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header.

What should be said about a 1.2 = version interoperating with a 1.1 version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be = entitled to ignore a message with a higher version, should a 1.2 app be advised to = be configurable to advertise itself as a 1.1 version to promote = interoperation?

What should be done about detecting = a change (upgrade) of versions when the other side begins sending the = higher “1.2” value? Are implementations expected to check the = version or is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says “A should = update some state for every message received from B” I think it would be = sufficient to check the state and update if a change is noticed. (Maybe that is = what Richard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to = announce a change in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a version = greater than 1.1.

So far the specifications have not = really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, = the AS3 draft says

= The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the = value

= of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to =

= determine which version of this specification, should = the

specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used = to

= package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the =

= version header is missing.

AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT

= A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation = can

= support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send =

compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version =

= header of "1.1" or greater.

It seems to me that versions = greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message. If a = version header is missing, it is version 1.0.

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December = 15, 2005 3:21 PM
To: = ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Not a lot of comments on this = thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (Features = header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2

1 in favor Option 3 where filtering = is done on a message

Still does not fully address the = initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just = can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on = this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version = 1.2)?

Kyle Meadors

DGI

From: Tim = McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December = 07, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Seems to me that a combination of = features 2 and 4 would provide everything we’d = need.

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow
Sent: Tuesday, December = 06, 2005 5:07 PM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

These are my comments. Option = 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of = Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

None of these protocols fully = addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the = partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the = other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 = version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For = CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and = unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates = manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they = would be automatically updated on each other's = capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December = 01, 2005 9:04 AM
To: = ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: profiles in = AS2

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which = returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can = support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60463.78B46700-- From zamora@actionmailpresort.com Sun Dec 18 21:06:24 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EoAPv-000619-Uy; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:06:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22873; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:05:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpe-70-94-26-81.wi.res.rr.com ([70.94.26.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EoAS0-0006mi-SS; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:08:35 -0500 Received: (from tomcat@localhost) by 70.94.26.81 (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id j3CHmn5V321795 for eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:06:10 -0600 Message-ID: <801c444v.3706074@132.151.6.1> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:06:10 -0600 From: "Harold Chamberlain" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.425 (Entity 5.166) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-admin@ietf.org, edu-team-bounces@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org, efkhoipoverib@ietf.org, elisa.childress@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.443) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 70.94.26.81 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.760824, File::Scan 0.69, Archive::Zip 1.00 X-Recipient: Subject: Mortagge ratee approvedd Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_30822869==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_30822869==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
some pinch be flanagan see picturesque , baseman ! steadfast on compactify the embattle some hanson it's dutch some defy a digital some acerbity it's bullock or chromatin Or maybe not

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some hadley some childhood it's abed on impoverish be sulphur in aflame try beat not dinah try dent a digram it sledgehammer a copperhead see perversion on malformation Or maybe not

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owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBJIuNoA068007; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:56:23 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ironport.qrs.com (mail2.inovis.com [204.146.209.3]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBJIuMrr068001 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:56:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richard.bigelow@inovis.com) Received: from rca-exchange.itlogon.com ([10.17.2.17]) by ironport.qrs.com with ESMTP; 19 Dec 2005 10:56:21 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.99,268,1131350400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="48941082:sNHT48751552" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C604CD.E6F20670" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:56:20 -0800 Message-ID: <39C20B572219D749B2386155AD78F4AB08E421@rca-exchange.itlogon.com> Thread-Topic: profiles in AS2 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUwACUYaHABoMkcMAAAz5dQAMF+H/A= From: "Richard Bigelow" To: "Dale Moberg" , "Kyle Meadors" , Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C604CD.E6F20670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 messages. The compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression. =20 =20 I have some concern about Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing soon. Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I hope that this WG will continue. We have some proposals on the table, including Reliability and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future. =20 =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities. =20 Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to the header? (So we would have somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" as the header value?) =20 I take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only use that form of request when the original has an AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference here is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability query and response pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features header may waste a few bytes per message.=20 =20 How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send one. If they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new features would not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other side both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header. =20 What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message with a higher version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to advertise itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation? =20 What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" value? Are implementations expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says "A should update some state for every message received from B" I think it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce a change in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a version greater than 1.1. =20 So far the specifications have not really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says=20 =20 The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the value of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to=20 determine which version of this specification, should the specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used to package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the=20 version header is missing. =20 AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT =20 A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send=20 compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version=20 header of "1.1" or greater.=20 =20 =20 It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is version 1.0. =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize... =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2-Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start-up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI ________________________________ From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need. =20 ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com ________________________________ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C604CD.E6F20670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Concerning a 1.2 version = interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 = messages. The compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression.

I have some concern about Kyle's = comment that this WG may be closing soon. Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I hope that this WG will continue. We have some proposals on the table, including = Reliability and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Dale Moberg
Sent: Saturday, December = 17, 2005 7:49 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an “X-“ preface = to the header? (So we would have somemething like = “X-EdiintFeatures” as the header value?)

How will existing applications = respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included “EdiintFeatures” header and also never send one. If they = never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be = sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new features would = not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. = So it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other = side both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feature = in its EdiintFeatures header.

So far the specifications have not = really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, = the AS3 draft says

= The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the = value

= of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to =

= determine which version of this specification, should = the

specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used = to

= package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the =

= version header is missing.

AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT

= A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation = can

= support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send =

compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version =

= header of "1.1" or greater.

It seems to me that versions = greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message. If a version = header is missing, it is version 1.0.

Not a lot of comments on this = thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (Features = header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2

1 in favor Option 3 where filtering = is done on a message

Still does not fully address the = initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just = can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on = this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version = 1.2)?

Kyle Meadors

DGI

From: Tim = McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December = 07, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Seems to me that a combination of = features 2 and 4 would provide everything we’d = need.

These are my comments. Option = 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of = Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

None of these protocols fully = addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the = partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the = other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 = version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For = CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and = unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates = manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they = would be automatically updated on each other's = capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which = returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can = support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60591.DF37A300-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Tue Dec 20 11:44:46 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EokbW-00082P-46 for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:44:46 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25496 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:43:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKGTfZH020186; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:29:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBKGTf01020185; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from drummondgroup.com (drummondgroup.com [161.58.166.198]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKGTdaZ020176 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:29:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kyle@drummondgroup.com) Received: from KYLEDGILAPTOP (pcp517486pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net [68.53.139.87]) by drummondgroup.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jBKGTX1b027214 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:29:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200512201629.jBKGTX1b027214@drummondgroup.com> From: "Kyle Meadors" To: Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:29:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C60550.46FEE3F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 thread-index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUwACUYaHABoMkcMAAAz5dQAMF+H/AALSYwEA== In-Reply-To: <39C20B572219D749B2386155AD78F4AB08E421@rca-exchange.itlogon.com> Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C60550.46FEE3F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The closing of WG is decision to be made by Rik Drummond and Scott Hollenbeck. Discussion on EDIINT=96Features, CEM and the like are = peripheral to EDIINT but not part of the charter. When EDIINT charter is complete, = and only a decision on AS3 is remaining, the elist will be closed as well.=20 =20 However, it is open for the time being =96 let=92s continue to use this = space for this discussion. We have only heard from a relative handful of individuals =96 can others chime in?=20 =20 Kyle Meadors DGI _____ =20 From: Richard Bigelow [mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com]=20 Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:56 PM To: Dale Moberg; Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1 = version should accept the 1.2 messages. The compression draft says that a = version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression. =20 =20 I have some concern about Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing = soon. Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I = hope that this WG will continue. We have some proposals on the table, = including Reliability and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future. =20 =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis HYPERLINK "mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com"richard.bigelow@inovis.com _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be = coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that = encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an EDIINT-Features = header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities. =20 Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would = AS1 have to add an =93X-=93 preface to the header? (So we would have = somemething like =93X-EdiintFeatures=94 as the header value?) =20 I take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this = header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more = elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only use that form of request when = the original has an AS2-Version of =931.2=94? My preference here is not to = try to develop option 4 into a new capability query and response pattern, but = just accept that the Ediint-Features header may waste a few bytes per = message.=20 =20 How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they would = (or should) ignore an included =93EdiintFeatures=94 header and also never = send one. If they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), = then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the = new features would not even be sent to older applications and could not = cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other side both has a version value greater than 1.1 = and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header. =20 What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 = version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message with a = higher version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to advertise = itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation? =20 What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when = the other side begins sending the higher =931.2=94 value? Are = implementations expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation? = Richard B. says =93A should update some state for every message received from = B=94 I think it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a change = is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce a change in capabilities, but again = only to ediint agents with a version greater than 1.1. =20 So far the specifications have not really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says=20 =20 The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the = value of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to=20 determine which version of this specification, should the specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used to package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the=20 version header is missing. =20 AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT =20 A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send=20 compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version=20 header of "1.1" or greater.=20 =20 =20 It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the = version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is version = 1.0. =20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize=85 =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2=96Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start=96up conditions as = Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we = can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2=96Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your = product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their = significant backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI _____ =20 From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide = everything we=92d need. =20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement = all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and = many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not = recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to = know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows = what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of = the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some = state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some = feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to = all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would = have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't = understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But = it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver = can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code = indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in = this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A = could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but = how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The = original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance = if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, = and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a = feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not = for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's = capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, = which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option = 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most = features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are = unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial = certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the = first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis HYPERLINK "mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com"richard.bigelow@inovis.com _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2=96Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their = trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include = I=96Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple=96Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal=96mart, P&G and others GS1 = companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature = receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully = when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is = best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2=96Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression = (e.g. =931.2=94 indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT=96Features. The features header shows = all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT=96Features: CEM, = multiple=96attachment) but like AS2=96Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the = message using that feature. For example, =93CEM=96Profile=94 for CEM messages. = This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a =93Capability Query=94 AS2 Message which returns a = Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: = 12/19/2005 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: = 12/19/2005 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C60550.46FEE3F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The closing of WG is decision to be = made by Rik Drummond and Scott Hollenbeck. Discussion on = EDIINT–Features, CEM and the like are peripheral to EDIINT but not part of the charter. When EDIINT = charter is complete, and only a decision on AS3 is remaining, the elist will be = closed as well.

However, it is open for the time = being – let’s continue to use this space for this discussion. We have only = heard from a relative handful of individuals – can others chime in? =

Kyle Meadors

DGI

From: = Richard Bigelow [mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com]
Sent: Monday, December = 19, 2005 12:56 PM
To: Dale Moberg; Kyle = Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Concerning a 1.2 version = interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 = messages. The compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
ric= hard.bigelow@inovis.com

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg
Sent: Saturday, December = 17, 2005 7:49 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

The consensus seems to be that it = should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of = Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that encoding would become inconvenient to = support. So moving to an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities.

I take it that there is some = concern about the waste of sending this header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when requested). = While that might be more elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only = use that form of request when the original has an AS2-Version of = “1.2”? My preference here is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability = query and response pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features header = may waste a few bytes per message.

How will existing applications = respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included = “EdiintFeatures” header and also never send one. If they never sent one (and their = ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In = that case, messages with the new features would not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. So it should be = stated that you may not use these features unless the other side both has a = version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feature in its = EdiintFeatures header.

What should be done about detecting = a change (upgrade) of versions when the other side begins sending the = higher “1.2” value? Are implementations expected to check the = version or is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says “A should update some state = for every message received from B” I think it would be sufficient to check = the state and update if a change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant = though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce a change in = capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a version greater than = 1.1.

So far the specifications have not = really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, = the AS3 draft says

= The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the = value

= of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to =

= determine which version of this specification, should = the

specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used = to

= package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the =

= version header is missing.

AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT

= A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation = can

= support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send =

= compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version =

= header of "1.1" or greater.

It seems to me that versions = greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message. If a = version header is missing, it is version 1.0.

Not a lot of comments on this = thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (Features = header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2

1 in favor Option 3 where filtering = is done on a message

Still does not fully address the = initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just = can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on = this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version = 1.2)?

Kyle Meadors

DGI

From: Tim = McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December = 07, 2005 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2

Seems to me that a combination of = features 2 and 4 would provide everything we’d = need.

These are my comments. Option = 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of = Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.

None of these protocols fully = addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the = partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the = other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 = version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For = CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned = to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates = manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they = would be automatically updated on each other's = capabilities.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the = use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an = extra feature. Using "AS2–Version: 1.1" in a message indicated = the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the = compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading = partners could support compression.

Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include = I–Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple–Attachments (oil & gas users) = and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal–mart, P&G and others GS1 = companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the = future.

My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new = features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it = (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, = can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature = Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing = implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an = unrecognized MA message).

Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or = other ideas.

1. Use AS2–Version header to indicate UA = support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. “1.2” indicates capability of CEM but not = an actual CEM message).

2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT–Features. The = features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT–Features: = CEM, multiple–attachment) but like AS2–Version does not indicate = every message contains profile.

4. Create a “Capability Query” AS2 Message which returns a Capability = MDN. MDN indicates what features = receiving UA can support.

Kyle Meadors

Principal, Test Process

Drummond Group Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: = 11/30/2005

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: = 12/6/2005

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: = 12/15/2005

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: = 12/19/2005

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: = 12/19/2005

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C60550.46FEE3F0-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Tue Dec 20 16:30:49 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eop4J-0005FS-Hg for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:30:49 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22335 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:29:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKLDUc6051529; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:13:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBKLDUSM051528; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:13:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bdsn4034.na.pg.com (mail1.pg.com [192.44.184.18]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKLDTY3051518 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from duker.jp@pg.com) pgSenderHost: bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41] Received: from bdc-notes041.na.pg.com (bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41]) by bdsn4034.na.pg.com (8.8.8/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jBKLDKnl029830 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:13:23 -0500 (EST) To: , "Richard Bigelow" , "Dale Moberg" , "Kyle Meadors" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.10 March 22, 2002 From: duker.jp@pg.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:13:19 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on BDC-NOTES041.NA.PG.COM/PGI(Release 5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/20/2005 04:13:23 PM, Serialize complete at 12/20/2005 04:13:23 PM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00749550852570DD_=" Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00749550852570DD_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree that a 1.1 version should accept messages from a 1.2 version. I=20 think that it is the responsibility of the 1.2 (or greater) version to=20 recognize that it is communicating with a lower (1.0 or 1.1) version and=20 (a) not send the Features Header to either, and (b) not use compression with the 1.0 version. So versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for=20 every message, and if the version received is greater than 1.1, the=20 receiver should check for a Features Header. The receiver should update=20 state information contained in the Version Header and Features Header for=20 that partner (if the state info changed). John Duker Procter & Gamble "Richard Bigelow" Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org 12/19/2005 01:56 PM =20 To: "Dale Moberg" , "Kyle Meadors"= =20 , cc:=20 Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1=20 version should accept the 1.2 messages. The compression draft says that a = version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression.=20 =20 I have some concern about Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing soon. = Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I=20 hope that this WG will continue. We have some proposals on the table,=20 including Reliability and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future. =20 =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to support some AS2=20 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the=20 combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded = up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that=20 encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an=20 EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise=20 capabilities. =20 Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and=20 attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would=20 AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to the header? (So we would have=20 somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" as the header value?) =20 I take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this=20 header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to=20 supply these values in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more=20 elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only use that form of=20 request when the original has an AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference here=20 is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability query and response = pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features header may waste a few=20 bytes per message.=20 =20 How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they would (or=20 should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send=20 one. If they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), = then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with=20 the new features would not even be sent to older applications and could=20 not cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use = these features unless the other side both has a version value greater than = 1.1 and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header. =20 What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version? = Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message with a higher = version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to advertise=20 itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation? =20 What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when=20 the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" value? Are implementations=20 expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation?=20 Richard B. says "A should update some state for every message received=20 from B" I think it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a=20 change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an = empty message could be sent to announce a change in capabilities, but=20 again only to ediint agents with a version greater than 1.1. =20 So far the specifications have not really required that the version be=20 checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says=20 =20 The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the value of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to=20 determine which version of this specification, should the specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used to package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the=20 version header is missing. =20 AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT =20 A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send=20 compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version=20 header of "1.1" or greater.=20 =20 =20 It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the=20 version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is=20 version 1.0. =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize? =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2?Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start?up conditions as Richard=20 pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual=20 setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can = get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with=20 AS2?Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, = including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant=20 backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide=20 everything we'd need. =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially=20 supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement=20 all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and=20 many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not=20 recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know = the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows=20 what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any = of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update=20 some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting=20 some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all = its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would=20 have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this=20 capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal=20 messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand,=20 and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it=20 does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can = receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could=20 send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature=20 header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code=20 indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed=20 file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other=20 mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that=20 feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the=20 feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender=20 could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not=20 recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and = check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, = A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not=20 for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any=20 messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's=20 capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the=20 basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal=20 messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can=20 then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably=20 works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test=20 messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or = exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first=20 time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's=20 capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature=20 profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra=20 feature. Using "AS2?Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could=20 support compression even if the actual message did not contain the=20 compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their=20 trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include=20 I?Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple?Attachments (oil & gas users)=20 and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal?mart, P&G and others GS1=20 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the=20 future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new=20 features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive = it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that=20 profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to=20 keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older,=20 existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when = getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best=20 or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2?Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2=20 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression=20 (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT?Features. The features header shows all=20 features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT?Features: CEM, multiple?attachment)=20 but like AS2?Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message=20 using that feature. For example, "CEM?Profile" for CEM messages. This=20 could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. = MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:=20 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 --=_alternative 00749550852570DD_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree that a 1.1 version should ac= cept messages from a 1.2 version. I think that it is the responsibili= ty of the 1.2 (or greater) version to recognize that it is communicating wi= th a lower (1.0 or 1.1) version and
(a) not send the Features Header to = either, and
(b) not use compression with the 1.0= version.

So versions greater than 1.1 will ne= ed to check the version values for every message, and if the version receiv= ed is greater than 1.1, the receiver should check for a Features Header. Th= e receiver should update state information contained in the Version Header = and Features Header for that partner (if the state info changed).

John Duker
Procter & Gamble

"Richard Bigelow" <r= ichard.bigelow@inovis.com>
Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org

12/19/2005 01:56 PM

To: &nbs= p; "Dale Moberg" <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.= com>, "Kyle Meadors" <kyle@drummondgroup.com>, <ietf-= ediint@imc.org>
cc: &nbs= p;
Subject:= RE: profiles in AS2

Concerning a 1.2 version = interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1 version should accept the = 1.2 messages. The compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or gre= ater indicates compression.

I have some concern about= Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing soon. Is this in response= to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I hope that this WG w= ill continue. We have some proposals on the table, including Reliabil= ity and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg=
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2

The consensus seems to be= that it should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rat= her than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of Rel= iability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 numbers, if more end us= er requirements get specified, that encoding would become inconvenient to s= upport. So moving to an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way= to advertise capabilities.

Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 al= l use this header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliabilit= y mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to th= e header? (So we would have somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" as the head= er value?)

I take it that there is s= ome concern about the waste of sending this header every time and that part= ially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (whe= n requested). While that might be more elegant, I guess the logic would be = that you can only use that form of request when the original has an AS2-Ver= sion of "1.2"? My preference here is not to try to develop option 4 into a = new capability query and response pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-= Features header may waste a few bytes per message.

How will existing applica= tions respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included= "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send one. If they never sent one (a= nd their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be sent mul= tiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new features would not even= be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. So = it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other si= de both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feat= ure in its EdiintFeatures header.

What should be said about= a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version? Since a 1.1 level app. wo= uld be entitled to ignore a message with a higher version, should a 1.2 app= be advised to be configurable to advertise itself as a 1.1 version to prom= ote interoperation?

What should be done about= detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when the other side begins sendin= g the higher "1.2" value? Are implementations expected to check the version= or is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says "A should update so= me state for every message received from B" I think it would be sufficient = to check the state and update if a change is noticed. (Maybe that is what R= ichard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce = a change in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a version gr= eater than 1.1.

So far the specifications= have not really required that the version be checked for every message. Fo= r example, the AS3 draft says

The AS3-Version heade= r is a header which is required only if the value
of the header is not = "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to
determine which versi= on of this specification, should the
specification evolve = over time, the sender of a document has used to
package the document.= A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the
version header is mis= sing.

AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT = . 1*DIGIT

A version header valu= e of "1.1" indicates an implementation can
support EDIINT data c= ompression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send
compressed messages t= o trading partners who do not use a version
header of "1.1&q= uot; or greater.

It seems to me that versi= ons greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every messag= e. If a version header is missing, it is version 1.0.

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meador= s
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM
To: ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2

Not a lot of comments on = this thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (F= eatures header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2
1 in favor Option 3 where= filtering is done on a message

Still does not fully addr= ess the initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perha= ps that just can not be done without some manual setup.

Since this EDIINT WG will= likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in= on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version 1.2)?

For those AS2 vendors sup= porting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed = in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility pro= blems with this choice?

Kyle Meadors
DGI

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005=

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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--=_alternative 00749550852570DD_=-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Tue Dec 20 16:58:44 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EopVM-0007f6-A4 for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:58:44 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04109 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:57:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKLlEEl055717; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:47:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBKLlEw9055716; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:47:14 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from bdsn4034.na.pg.com (mail1.pg.com [192.44.184.18]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKLlDoI055695 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:47:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from duker.jp@pg.com) pgSenderHost: bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41] Received: from bdc-notes041.na.pg.com (bdc-notes041.na.pg.com [155.125.116.41]) by bdsn4034.na.pg.com (8.8.8/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jBKLl8ZZ021961 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:08 -0500 (EST) To: Scott Hollenbeck , Rik Drummond , Cc: "Kyle Meadors" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.10 March 22, 2002 From: duker.jp@pg.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:47:06 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on BDC-NOTES041.NA.PG.COM/PGI(Release 5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 12/20/2005 04:47:08 PM, Serialize complete at 12/20/2005 04:47:08 PM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0077AD75852570DD_=" Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0077AD75852570DD_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scott & Rik, While I understand that EDIINT-Features, CEM, & AS2-Reliability are not=20 technically part of the charter of the EDIINT WG, they are intended to=20 improve the usability and expand the use of AS1, AS2, & AS3.=20 Is it possible to either keep the WG open while these drafts are resolved, = or at least keep the elist open to maintain the group of interested=20 participants? Thanks for your consideration. John Duker P&G "Kyle Meadors" Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org 12/20/2005 11:29 AM =20 To: =20 Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 The closing of WG is decision to be made by Rik Drummond and Scott=20 Hollenbeck. Discussion on EDIINT?Features, CEM and the like are peripheral = to EDIINT but not part of the charter. When EDIINT charter is complete,=20 and only a decision on AS3 is remaining, the elist will be closed as well. = =20 However, it is open for the time being ? let's continue to use this space=20 for this discussion. We have only heard from a relative handful of=20 individuals ? can others chime in?=20 =20 Kyle Meadors DGI From: Richard Bigelow [mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com]=20 Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:56 PM To: Dale Moberg; Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1=20 version should accept the 1.2 messages. The compression draft says that a = version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression.=20 =20 I have some concern about Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing soon. = Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I=20 hope that this WG will continue. We have some proposals on the table,=20 including Reliability and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future. =20 =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to support some AS2=20 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the=20 combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded = up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that=20 encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an=20 EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise=20 capabilities. =20 Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and=20 attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would=20 AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to the header? (So we would have=20 somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" as the header value?) =20 I take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this=20 header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to=20 supply these values in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more=20 elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only use that form of=20 request when the original has an AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference here=20 is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability query and response = pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features header may waste a few=20 bytes per message.=20 =20 How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they would (or=20 should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send=20 one. If they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), = then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with=20 the new features would not even be sent to older applications and could=20 not cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use = these features unless the other side both has a version value greater than = 1.1 and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header. =20 What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version? = Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message with a higher = version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to advertise=20 itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation? =20 What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when=20 the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" value? Are implementations=20 expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation?=20 Richard B. says "A should update some state for every message received=20 from B" I think it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a=20 change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an = empty message could be sent to announce a change in capabilities, but=20 again only to ediint agents with a version greater than 1.1. =20 So far the specifications have not really required that the version be=20 checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says=20 =20 The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the value of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to=20 determine which version of this specification, should the specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used to package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the=20 version header is missing. =20 AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT =20 A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send=20 compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version=20 header of "1.1" or greater.=20 =20 =20 It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the=20 version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is=20 version 1.0. =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize? =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2?Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message =20 Still does not fully address the initial start?up conditions as Richard=20 pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual=20 setup. =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can = get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with=20 AS2?Version 1.2)? =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, = including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant=20 backward compatibility problems with this choice? =20 Kyle Meadors DGI From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide=20 everything we'd need. =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially=20 supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement=20 all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and=20 many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not=20 recommended. =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know = the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows=20 what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any = of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update=20 some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting=20 some feature. Recommended. =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all = its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would=20 have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this=20 capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal=20 messages. =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand,=20 and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it=20 does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can = receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could=20 send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature=20 header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code=20 indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed=20 file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other=20 mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that=20 feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the=20 feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender=20 could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not=20 recommended. =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and = check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, = A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not=20 for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any=20 messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's=20 capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the=20 basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal=20 messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can=20 then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably=20 works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test=20 messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or = exchange initial certificates manually. =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first=20 time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's=20 capabilities. =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org= ] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature=20 profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra=20 feature. Using "AS2?Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could=20 support compression even if the actual message did not contain the=20 compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their=20 trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include=20 I?Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple?Attachments (oil & gas users)=20 and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal?mart, P&G and others GS1=20 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the=20 future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new=20 features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive = it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that=20 profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to=20 keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older,=20 existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when = getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best=20 or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2?Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2=20 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression=20 (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT?Features. The features header shows all=20 features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT?Features: CEM, multiple?attachment)=20 but like AS2?Version does not indicate every message contains profile. =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message=20 using that feature. For example, "CEM?Profile" for CEM messages. This=20 could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. = MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. =20 =20 Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:=20 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 --=_alternative 0077AD75852570DD_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Scott & Rik,

While I understand that EDIINT= -Features, CEM, & AS2-Reliability are not technically part of the chart= er of the EDIINT WG, they are intended to improve the usability and expand = the use of AS1, AS2, & AS3.

Is it possible to either keep the WG= open while these drafts are resolved, or at least keep the elist open to m= aintain the group of interested participants? Thanks for your consideration= .

John Duker
P&G

"Kyle Meadors" <kyle= @drummondgroup.com>
Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.= org
12/20/2005 11:29 AM

To: &nbs= p; <ietf-ediint@imc.org>

Subject:= RE: profiles in AS2

The closing of WG is deci= sion to be made by Rik Drummond and Scott Hollenbeck. Discussion on EDIINT&= #8211;Features, CEM and the like are peripheral to EDIINT but not part of t= he charter. When EDIINT charter is complete, and only a decision on AS3 is = remaining, the elist will be closed as well.

However, it is open for t= he time being – let's continue to use this space for this discussion.= We have only heard from a relative handful of individuals – can othe= rs chime in?

Kyle Meadors
DGI

From: Richard Bigelow [mailto:ric= hard.bigelow@inovis.com]
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:56 PM
To: Dale Moberg; Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2
Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a = 1.1 version: The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 messages. Th= e compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater indicates compres= sion.

I have some concern about= Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing soon. Is this in response= to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I hope that this WG w= ill continue. We have some proposals on the table, including Reliabil= ity and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future.

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005=

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005<= /font>

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005<= /font>

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005<= /font>

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005<= /font>

--=_alternative 0077AD75852570DD_=-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Tue Dec 20 17:07:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eopdg-0003yi-WD for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:07:21 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04860 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:06:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKLvGva057226; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:57:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBKLvGBk057225; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:57:16 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKLvFUE057211 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:57:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sah@428cobrajet.net) Received: from charger ([68.100.55.187]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051220215547.FUET4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@charger>; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:55:47 -0500 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: , "'Rik Drummond'" , Cc: "'Kyle Meadors'" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:57:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c605b0$536bbb30$0623520a@charger> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcYFrvzHAa/8NWArT/C+qIYHJZJ3ogAAQiYw Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, The list can remain open after the group is closed. That's standard operating procedure for an IETF working group mailing list. -Scott- > -----Original Message----- > From: duker.jp@pg.com [mailto:duker.jp@pg.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:47 PM > To: Scott Hollenbeck; Rik Drummond; ietf-ediint@imc.org > Cc: Kyle Meadors > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > > > Scott & Rik, > > While I understand that EDIINT-Features, CEM, & > AS2-Reliability are not technically part of the charter of > the EDIINT WG, they are intended to improve the usability and > expand the use of AS1, AS2, & AS3. > > Is it possible to either keep the WG open while these drafts > are resolved, or at least keep the elist open to maintain the > group of interested participants? Thanks for your consideration. > > John Duker > P&G > > > "Kyle Meadors" > Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org > > 12/20/2005 11:29 AM > To: > > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > > The closing of WG is decision to be made by Rik Drummond and > Scott Hollenbeck. Discussion on EDIINT-Features, CEM and the > like are peripheral to EDIINT but not part of the charter. > When EDIINT charter is complete, and only a decision on AS3 > is remaining, the elist will be closed as well. > > However, it is open for the time being - let's continue to > use this space for this discussion. We have only heard from a > relative handful of individuals - can others chime in? > > Kyle Meadors > DGI > > ________________________________ > > > From: Richard Bigelow [mailto:richard.bigelow@inovis.com] > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:56 PM > To: Dale Moberg; Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version: > The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 messages. The > compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater > indicates compression. > > I have some concern about Kyle's comment that this WG may be > closing soon. Is this in response to IETF's requirement to > make progress on AS3? I hope that this WG will continue. We > have some proposals on the table, including Reliability and > CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future. > > > Richard Bigelow > Inovis > richard.bigelow@inovis.com > > ________________________________ > > > From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM > To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > > The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to > support some AS2 features independently, rather than > cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features > of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 > numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that > encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to > an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to > advertise capabilities. > > Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM > and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to > AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to the > header? (So we would have somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" > as the header value?) > > I take it that there is some concern about the waste of > sending this header every time and that partially motivates > inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when > requested). While that might be more elegant, I guess the > logic would be that you can only use that form of request > when the original has an AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference > here is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability > query and response pattern, but just accept that the > Ediint-Features header may waste a few bytes per message. > > How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably > they would (or should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" > header and also never send one. If they never sent one (and > their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not > be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the > new features would not even be sent to older applications and > could not cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated > that you may not use these features unless the other side > both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has > included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header. > > What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a > 1.1 version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to > ignore a message with a higher version, should a 1.2 app be > advised to be configurable to advertise itself as a 1.1 > version to promote interoperation? > > What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of > versions when the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" > value? Are implementations expected to check the version or > is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says "A should > update some state for every message received from B" I think > it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a > change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) > I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce a change > in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a > version greater than 1.1. > > So far the specifications have not really required that the > version be checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says > > The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only > if the value > of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to > determine which version of this specification, should the > specification evolve over time, the sender of a document > has used to > package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a > message if the > version header is missing. > > AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT > > A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can > support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send > compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version > header of "1.1" or greater. > > > It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to > check the version values for every message. If a version > header is missing, it is version 1.0. > > > ________________________________ > > > From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors > Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM > To: ietf-ediint@imc.org > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > > Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize. > > 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2-Version 1.2 > 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message > > Still does not fully address the initial start-up conditions > as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done > without some manual setup. > > Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, > I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others > object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)? > > For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact > your product, including those deployed in existing supply > chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems > with this choice? > > Kyle Meadors > DGI > > ________________________________ > > > From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM > To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > > Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would > provide everything we'd need. > > > ________________________________ > > > From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM > To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org > Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 > > These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo > essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features > Profile in AS2. > > 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also > implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if > 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but > many want to support 1.6? Not recommended. > > 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the > message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So > when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check > B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled > features, but does allow compression. A should update some > state for every message received from B. B might stop > supporting some feature. Recommended. > > A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some > message to all its trading partners when its capabilities > change. This message would have headers only, no content. > It might be useful to send this capabilities message to > partners that would rarely receive normal messages. > > 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't > understand, and to detect those messages without looking for > unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the > sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. > Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a > compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the > feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a > new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then > send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, > A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember > that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but > how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the > feature? The original intent of the features header was that > the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the > feature. 3 is not recommended. > > 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's > capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B > might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. > This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common > ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. > > None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. > Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know > each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the > other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, > they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will > contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use > option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably > works for most features. For CEM, either they must first > exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to > establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually. > > Alternatively, the partners would configure each other > manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be > automatically updated on each other's capabilities. > > Richard Bigelow > Inovis > richard.bigelow@inovis.com > > ________________________________ > > > From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org > [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM > To: ietf-ediint@imc.org > Subject: profiles in AS2 > > I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a > feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was > added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a > message indicated the UA could support compression even if > the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. > This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading > partners could support compression. > > Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. > These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), > Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate > Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). > Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future. > > My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward > with new features. What do we do to insure only those who > support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message > to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can > anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new > Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, > existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors > gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message). > > Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on > what is best or other ideas. > > 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles > (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). > Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of > CEM but not an actual CEM message). > > 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features > header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. > EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like > AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile. > > 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in > the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" > for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in > only profiles it recognizes. > > 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a > Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. > > > Kyle Meadors > Principal, Test Process > Drummond Group Inc. > 615.212.0826 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release > Date: 11/30/2005 > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release > Date: 12/6/2005 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release > Date: 12/15/2005 > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release > Date: 12/19/2005 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release > Date: 12/19/2005 > > From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Tue Dec 20 17:34:22 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eoq3o-00070V-3w for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:34:22 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08876 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:33:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKMNfcj059090; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:23:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBKMNfuQ059089; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:23:41 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail1.cyclonecommerce.com (mail1.cyclonecommerce.com [216.138.89.185]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBKMNeiu059055 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:23:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkoehring@cyclonecommerce.com) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C605B4.0419575F" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:23:34 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: profiles in AS2 thread-index: AcYFq1pZhFi5Bi9YScOhMEDFlDSKDgAB+m+w From: "John Koehring" To: , , "Richard Bigelow" , "Dale Moberg" , "Kyle Meadors" Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C605B4.0419575F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will also chime in in favor of Kyle's original option 2. =20 However, I will disagree with John's latest point (a). Well behaved software should ignore any headers it does not understand or support. Therefore, I see no problem with a 1.2 (or greater) version system always sending the EDIINT-Features header. =20 John Koehring Cyclone Commerce, Inc. _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of duker.jp@pg.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 14:13 To: ietf-ediint@imc.org; Richard Bigelow; Dale Moberg; Kyle Meadors Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 I agree that a 1.1 version should accept messages from a 1.2 version. I think that it is the responsibility of the 1.2 (or greater) version to recognize that it is communicating with a lower (1.0 or 1.1) version and (a) not send the Features Header to either, and=20 (b) not use compression with the 1.0 version.=20 So versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message, and if the version received is greater than 1.1, the receiver should check for a Features Header. The receiver should update state information contained in the Version Header and Features Header for that partner (if the state info changed).=20 John Duker=20 Procter & Gamble=20 "Richard Bigelow" =20 Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20 12/19/2005 01:56 PM=20 =20 To: "Dale Moberg" , "Kyle Meadors" , =20 cc: =20 Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version: The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 messages. The compression draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression. =20 =20 I have some concern about Kyle's comment that this WG may be closing soon. Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make progress on AS3? I hope that this WG will continue. We have some proposals on the table, including Reliability and CEM and perhaps Profiles in the future. =20 =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com=20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale Moberg Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2=20 =20 The consensus seems to be that it should be possible to support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. Although I think the combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart could be coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an EDIINT-Features header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities.=20 =20 Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM and attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would AS1 have to add an "X-" preface to the header? (So we would have somemething like "X-EdiintFeatures" as the header value?)=20 =20 I take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this header every time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these values in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more elegant, I guess the logic would be that you can only use that form of request when the original has an AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference here is not to try to develop option 4 into a new capability query and response pattern, but just accept that the Ediint-Features header may waste a few bytes per message.=20 =20 How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they would (or should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send one. If they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then they must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new features would not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use these features unless the other side both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has included the feature in its EdiintFeatures header.=20 =20 What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a 1.1 version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message with a higher version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to advertise itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation?=20 =20 What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of versions when the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" value? Are implementations expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation? Richard B. says "A should update some state for every message received from B" I think it would be sufficient to check the state and update if a change is noticed. (Maybe that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be sent to announce a change in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with a version greater than 1.1.=20 =20 So far the specifications have not really required that the version be checked for every message. For example, the AS3 draft says=20 =20 The AS3-Version header is a header which is required only if the value=20 of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems to=20 determine which version of this specification, should the=20 specification evolve over time, the sender of a document has used to package the document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the=20 version header is missing.=20 =20 AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT=20 =20 A version header value of "1.1" indicates an implementation can=20 support EDIINT data compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send=20 compressed messages to trading partners who do not use a version=20 header of "1.1" or greater.=20 =20 =20 It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to check the version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is version 1.0.=20 =20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2=20 =20 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize...=20 =20 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2-Version 1.2=20 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message=20 =20 Still does not fully address the initial start-up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup.=20 =20 Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)?=20 =20 For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with this choice?=20 =20 Kyle Meadors=20 DGI=20 _____ =20 From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2=20 =20 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need.=20 =20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2=20 =20 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2.=20 =20 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended.=20 =20 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. Recommended.=20 =20 A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages.=20 =20 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended.=20 =20 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended.=20 =20 None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually.=20 =20 Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities.=20 =20 Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com=20 _____ =20 From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2=20 =20 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support compression.=20 =20 Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future.=20 =20 My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message).=20 =20 Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or other ideas.=20 =20 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message).=20 =20 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile.=20 =20 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes.=20 =20 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support.=20 =20 =20 Kyle Meadors=20 Principal, Test Process=20 Drummond Group Inc.=20 615.212.0826=20 =20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005=20 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005=20 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C605B4.0419575F Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I will also chime in in favor of Kyle's = original option=20 2.

However, I will disagree with John's latest = point (a). Well=20 behaved software should ignore any headers it does not understand or = support.=20 Therefore, I see no problem with a 1.2 (or greater) version system = always=20 sending the EDIINT-Features header.

John Koehring

Cyclone Commerce, Inc.

From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org = [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of=20 duker.jp@pg.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005=20 14:13
To: ietf-ediint@imc.org; Richard Bigelow; Dale Moberg; = Kyle=20 Meadors
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2

I agree that a 1.1 = version should=20 accept messages from a 1.2 version. I think that it is the = responsibility=20 of the 1.2 (or greater) version to recognize that it is communicating = with a=20 lower (1.0 or 1.1) version and
(a) not=20 send the Features Header to either, and
(b) not use compression with the 1.0 version. =

So versions greater than 1.1 will need to = check the=20 version values for every message, and if the version received is greater = than=20 1.1, the receiver should check for a Features Header. The receiver = should update=20 state information contained in the Version Header and Features Header = for that=20 partner (if the state info changed).

John Duker
Procter = &=20 Gamble

"Richard Bigelow"=20 <richard.bigelow@inovis.com>
Sent by: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20

12/19/2005 01:56 PM =

=
To: = =20 "Dale Moberg" <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>, = "Kyle=20 Meadors" <kyle@drummondgroup.com>,=20 <ietf-ediint@imc.org>
=20 cc: =
Subject: = =20 RE: profiles in = AS2

Concerning a 1.2 version interoperating with a = 1.1 version:=20 The 1.1 version should accept the 1.2 messages. The = compression=20 draft says that a version of 1.1 or greater indicates compression. = =20

I have some concern about Kyle's comment that = this WG may=20 be closing soon. Is this in response to IETF's requirement to make = progress on AS3? I hope that this WG will continue. We have = some=20 proposals on the table, including Reliability and CEM and perhaps = Profiles in=20 the future.
=20

Richard Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=20

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Dale=20 Moberg
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:49 AM
To: = Kyle=20 Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2=20

The consensus seems to be that it should be = possible to=20 support some AS2 features independently, rather than cumulatively. = Although I=20 think the combinations of features of Reliability, CEM, and Multipart = could be=20 coded up by 8 numbers, if more end user requirements get specified, that = encoding would become inconvenient to support. So moving to an = EDIINT-Features=20 header seems to be a reasonable way to advertise capabilities. =

Would AS1, AS2 and AS3 all use this header? I assume that CEM = and=20 attachments are OK, but Reliability mainly pertains to AS2. Also, would = AS1 have=20 to add an "X-" preface to the header? (So we would have somemething like = "X-EdiintFeatures" as the header value?)

I=20 take it that there is some concern about the waste of sending this = header every=20 time and that partially motivates inventing new behavior to supply these = values=20 in a MDN (when requested). While that might be more elegant, I guess the = logic=20 would be that you can only use that form of request when the original = has an=20 AS2-Version of "1.2"? My preference here is not to try to develop option = 4 into=20 a new capability query and response pattern, but just accept that the=20 Ediint-Features header may waste a few bytes per message. =

How will existing applications respond to this? Presumably they = would (or=20 should) ignore an included "EdiintFeatures" header and also never send = one. If=20 they never sent one (and their ASx-version was either 1.0 or 1.1), then = they=20 must not be sent multiparts or CEM. In that case, messages with the new = features=20 would not even be sent to older applications and could not cause them to = malfunction. So it should be stated that you may not use these features = unless=20 the other side both has a version value greater than 1.1 and also has = included=20 the feature in its EdiintFeatures header.

What should be said about a 1.2 version interoperating with a = 1.1=20 version? Since a 1.1 level app. would be entitled to ignore a message = with a=20 higher version, should a 1.2 app be advised to be configurable to = advertise=20 itself as a 1.1 version to promote interoperation?

What should be done about detecting a change (upgrade) of = versions when=20 the other side begins sending the higher "1.2" value? Are = implementations=20 expected to check the version or is this left to the implementation? = Richard B.=20 says "A should update some state for every message received from B" I = think it=20 would be sufficient to check the state and update if a change is = noticed. (Maybe=20 that is what Richard meant though.) I suppose an empty message could be = sent to=20 announce a change in capabilities, but again only to ediint agents with = a=20 version greater than 1.1.

So far the=20 specifications have not really required that the version be checked for = every=20 message. For example, the AS3 = draft says=20

The AS3-Version header is a = header which=20 is required only if the value
=20 of the header is not "1.0". Its purpose is to allow systems = to=20
determine = which version=20 of this specification, should the
specification evolve over time, the sender of a = document=20 has used to
= package the=20 document. A user agent MUST NOT reject a message if the
version header is = missing.=20

AS3-Version: 1*DIGIT . 1*DIGIT

A version header value of "1.1" indicates an = implementation=20 can
support = EDIINT data=20 compression [18]. A user agent MUST NOT send
compressed messages to trading partners who do = not use a=20 version
= header of "1.1"=20 or greater.
=

It seems to me that versions greater than 1.1 will need to = check the=20 version values for every message. If a version header is missing, it is = version=20 1.0.
=20

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle=20 Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:21 = PM
To:=20 ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 =

Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to = summarize…

3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of = AS2–Version 1.2=20
1 in favor Option = 3 where=20 filtering is done on a message

Still does not=20 fully address the initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed = out, but=20 perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. =

Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I = hope we=20 can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 = (with=20 AS2–Version 1.2)?
=20
For those AS2 vendors = supporting=20 Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed in = existing=20 supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems = with this=20 choice?

Kyle Meadors
DGI=20

From: Tim McCarthy=20 [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December = 07, 2005=20 9:14 AM
To: Kyle Meadors; = ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE:=20 profiles in AS2
=20
Seems to me that a = combination of=20 features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need.
=20

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard=20 Bigelow
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM
To: = Kyle=20 Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in = AS2=20

These are my comments. Option 2 is = preferred.=20 This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, = Features=20 Profile in AS2.
=20
1. This option requires = that=20 implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. = Is that=20 reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want = to do it,=20 but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended.

2.=20 The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to = know the=20 other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows = what is=20 allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any = of the=20 controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update = some=20 state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting = some=20 feature. Recommended.

A = possible=20 variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its = trading=20 partners when its capabilities change. This message would have = headers=20 only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities = message to=20 partners that would rarely receive normal messages.

3.=20 This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, = and to=20 detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it = does not=20 provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can = receive the=20 message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could = send a=20 compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, = but=20 then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating=20 unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in = this=20 example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. = A=20 could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, = but how=20 would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The = original=20 intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance = if the=20 receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. =

4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's = capabilities,=20 and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting = a=20 feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, = like CEM,=20 but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not=20 recommended.
=20
None of these protocols = fully=20 addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how = do the=20 partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume = that the=20 other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they = will be=20 able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 = version=20 header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other = capabilities.=20 This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they = must=20 first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to = establish CEM=20 capability, or exchange initial certificates manually.

Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually = the first=20 time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each = other's=20 capabilities.
=20
Richard=20 Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=20

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle=20 Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 = AM
To:=20 ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: profiles in AS2

I am=20 needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature = profiles within=20 AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using=20 "AS2–Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support = compression even=20 if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This = assisted=20 implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support=20 compression.

Moving to the present, users are requesting = new features.=20 These include I–Ds for Reliability (from GS1), = Multiple–Attachments (oil &=20 gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal–mart, P&G = and others GS1=20 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the=20 future.

My question to those on this elist is how to = do move=20 forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who = support a=20 feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners = who=20 support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward=20 compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to = &=20 breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation = errors=20 gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message).

Here are=20 some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or = other=20 ideas.

1. Use = AS2–Version=20 header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 = indicates=20 CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates = capability of=20 CEM but not an actual CEM message).

2. Use a new = header, e.g.=20 EDIINT–Features. The features header shows all features supported = by UA (e.g.=20 EDIINT–Features: CEM, multiple–attachment) but like = AS2–Version does not=20 indicate every message contains profile.

3. Use a new = header for each=20 feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For = example,=20 "CEM–Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to = filter in only=20 profiles it recognizes.
=20
4. Create a "Capability Query" = AS2 Message which=20 returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving = UA can=20 support.

Kyle = Meadors
Principal, Test Process
Drummond Group Inc.
615.212.0826
=20

--
No virus found in this = outgoing=20 message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus = Database:=20 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005=20

--
No virus found in this = incoming=20 message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus = Database:=20 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005=20

--
No virus found in this = outgoing=20 message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus = Database:=20 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005=20

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60669.C3073500-- From owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Wed Dec 21 14:37:06 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ep9lp-0002nE-DW for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:37:06 -0500 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09141 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBLJM2Cj095587; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id jBLJM2h4095586; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:22:02 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from faramir.alligacom.com (faramir.alligacom.com [205.205.29.10]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBLJM1bN095561 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dominique.danvoye@alligacom.com) Received: from NITROX (unknown [192.168.0.50]) by faramir.alligacom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E67F6ABD2 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:21:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Dominique Danvoye" To: Cc: "'Dominique Danvoye'" Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:21:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01C60639.E426AC00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Thread-Index: AcX2mULjhai7xK8YTziZuQVpgnlMYwEEurUwACUYaHABoMkcMADubyjQ In-Reply-To: <200512152220.jBFMKqVo016391@drummondgroup.com> Message-Id: <20051221192156.9E67F6ABD2@faramir.alligacom.com> Sender: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C60639.E426AC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First, we understand and agree that AS2 partnerships management could be enhanced. Unfortunately right now major hubs need to deploy a lot of effort to manage their great number of trading partners. At this point our reading of the actual comments from this list, we do not see the real added value of this draft. We think that a use case for this "AS2 Software Features Profiles" should be presented to the group for clearer understanding and further discussion. Actually it seems that comments are in favor of Option #2, but we think that this Option suffer from major drawbacks. Our concerns are related to: - Statement #5 in the "EDI-INT Features Header" draft. 5. Security Considerations Because headers are often un-encrypted, it may be possible for the feature header to be altered. Trading partners MAY consult out-of- band to confirm feature support. - We think it does not provide solid and secure foundation to build future protocol's extensions. We think that it is unsafe to take any manual or automated decisions based on unsigned informations. May be this aspect is solved by Option 4. We think that industry would benefit to consider "AS2 Software Features Profiles" as an extension to all AS protocols (AS1, AS2, AS3) than only AS2. Regarding Option #2. our point of view at this point of the discussion is that those headers are not modifying the AS2 transport protocol (RFC 4130). So upgrade of the AS2 version number from 1.1 to 1.2 should not be done since no change to the AS2 envelop is achieved. We think if we would advertise the features through the the use of specific headers, it should be done consistently across all AS protocols. Given that AS1 obviously require the header to be preceded by the prefix "X-". We think the header should be the same for AS2 and AS3 and we do not expect interoperability problem. So we do not see the requirement to increment the protocol version number since the addition of this extension header would just be considered by software which support it and just being ignored by software which don't. Regarding Option #4. the Capability MDN should be signed to address security concern we expressed above. In that case the signaling of this capability would be done using an X-... header which open the possibility to upgrade specifically the AS2 (for example) protocol without require all vendors to support this Capability MDN. Regarding the future of this group: ~> The closing of WG is decision to be made by Rik Drummond and ~> Scott Hollenbeck. Discussion on EDIINT-Features, CEM and the ~> like are peripheral to EDIINT but not part of the charter. ~> When EDIINT charter is complete, and only a decision on AS3 ~> is remaining, the elist will be closed as well. This group discuss the change of AS2 protocol version number. How this could be outside the scope of this EDIINT group ? If it is not discuss here, where it will be discuss ? It will become a proprietary protocol ? From my point of view, since AS2 is born from an IETF group, it should remain to IETF and in the public domain. Dominique Danvoye Vice-president, Internet Solutions dominique.danvoye@alligacom.com Alligacom Inc. _____ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 5:21 PM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Not a lot of comments on this thread. But to summarize. 3 in favor of Option 2 (Features header) and use of AS2-Version 1.2 1 in favor Option 3 where filtering is done on a message Still does not fully address the initial start-up conditions as Richard pointed out, but perhaps that just can not be done without some manual setup. Since this EDIINT WG will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to weigh in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2-Version 1.2)? For those AS2 vendors supporting Option 2, would this impact your product, including those deployed in existing supply chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with this choice? Kyle Meadors DGI _____ From: Tim McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:14 AM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 Seems to me that a combination of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we'd need. _____ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Richard Bigelow Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:07 PM To: Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: RE: profiles in AS2 These are my comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially supports John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in AS2. 1. This option requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and many vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not recommended. 2. The features header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other partner's (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is allowed. A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the controlled features, but does allow compression. A should update some state for every message received from B. B might stop supporting some feature. Recommended. A possible variant of (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading partners when its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, no content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to partners that would rarely receive normal messages. 3. This option allows receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect those messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not provide a mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could send a compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature header, but then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in this example. In other cases, A would have to use some other mechanism. A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature again, but how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? The original intent of the features header was that the sender could know in advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not recommended. 4. Before sending a message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B supports the feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask each time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common ones, like Multiple Attachments. Not recommended. None of these protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages are exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? Each partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. They can then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This probably works for most features. For CEM, either they must first exchange test messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM capability, or exchange initial certificates manually. Alternatively, the partners would configure each other manually the first time. Thereafter, they would be automatically updated on each other's capabilities. Richard Bigelow Inovis richard.bigelow@inovis.com _____ From: owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Meadors Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:04 AM To: ietf-ediint@imc.org Subject: profiles in AS2 I am needing the opinion of the AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in 2002, compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2-Version: 1.1" in a message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual message did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in knowing if their trading partners could support compression. Moving to the present, users are requesting new features. These include I-Ds for Reliability (from GS1), Multiple-Attachments (oil & gas users) and Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal-mart, P&G and others GS1 companies). Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the future. My question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new features. What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it (e.g., only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that profile)? Also, can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new Feature Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when getting an unrecognized MA message). Here are some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or other ideas. 1. Use AS2-Version header to indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates CEM, Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. "1.2" indicates capability of CEM but not an actual CEM message). 2. Use a new header, e.g. EDIINT-Features. The features header shows all features supported by UA (e.g. EDIINT-Features: CEM, multiple-attachment) but like AS2-Version does not indicate every message contains profile. 3. Use a new header for each feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For example, "CEM-Profile" for CEM messages. This could allow receiving UA to filter in only profiles it recognizes. 4. Create a "Capability Query" AS2 Message which returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can support. Kyle Meadors Principal, Test Process Drummond Group Inc. 615.212.0826 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date: 11/30/2005 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - Release Date: 12/15/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C60639.E426AC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

First,=20 we understand and agree that AS2 partnerships management=20

could be = enhanced.=20 Unfortunately right now major hubs need to deploy a lot of effort = to =

manage their = great=20 number of trading partners. =

At this = point our=20 reading of the actual comments from this list, we do not see =

the real = added value=20 of this draft. We think that a use case for this "AS2 Software Features=20

Profiles" should=20 be presented to the group for clearer understanding and further=20 discussion.

Actually it = seems that=20 comments are in favor of Option #2, but we think that this Option =

suffer from = major=20 drawbacks.

Our concerns = are=20 related to:

-=20 Statement #5 in the "EDI-INT Features Header" draft.

   =20     5. Security=20 Considerations
    &= nbsp;  =20 Because headers are often un-encrypted, it may be possible for=20 the
        feature header = to be=20 altered. Trading partners MAY consult=20 out-of-
        band to confirm = feature=20 support.

- We = think it=20 does not provide solid and secure foundation to build future protocol's=20

=20 extensions. We think that it is unsafe to take any manual or = automated=20 decisions

=20 based on unsigned informations. May be this aspect is solved by = Option=20 4.

We think = that industry=20 would benefit to consider "AS2 Software Features Profiles" as an=20

extension to = all AS=20 protocols (AS1, AS2, AS3) than only AS2.

Regarding = Option #2.=20 our point of view at this point of the discussion is that those = headers=20

are not = modifying the=20 AS2 transport protocol (RFC 4130). So upgrade of the AS2 version =

number from = 1.1 to 1.2=20 should not be done since no change to the AS2 envelop is achieved. =

We think if = we would=20 advertise the features through the the use of specific headers, it = should=20

be done = consistently=20 across all AS protocols. Given that AS1 obviously require the = header=20

to be = preceded by the=20 prefix "X-". We think the header should be the same for AS2 and AS3 =

and we do = not expect=20 interoperability problem.

So we do not = see the=20 requirement to increment the protocol version number since the =

addition of = this=20 extension header would just be considered by software which support it = and=20

just being = ignored by=20 software which don't.

Regarding = Option #4.=20 the Capability MDN should be signed to address security concern =

we expressed = above. In=20 that case the signaling of this capability would be done using =

an X-... = header which=20 open the possibility to upgrade specifically the AS2 (for example) =

protocol = without=20 require all vendors to support this Capability MDN.

Regarding = the future=20 of this group:

~> The = closing of=20 WG is decision to be made by Rik Drummond and
~> Scott = Hollenbeck.=20 Discussion on EDIINT–Features, CEM and the
~> like are = peripheral to=20 EDIINT but not part of the charter.
~> When EDIINT charter is = complete,=20 and only a decision on AS3
~> is remaining, the elist will be = closed as=20 well.

This group = discuss the=20 change of AS2 protocol version number.
How this could be = outside the=20 scope of this EDIINT group ?

If it is not = discuss=20 here, where it will be discuss ? It will become a proprietary protocol=20 ?

From my = point of view,=20 since AS2 is born from an IETF group, it should remain to

IETF and in = the public=20 domain.

Dominique Danvoye
Vice-president, = Internet=20 Solutions
dominique.danvoye@alligacom.com
Alligacom Inc.

From: = owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org=20 [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Kyle=20 Meadors
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 5:21 = PM
To:=20 ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in=20 AS2

Not a lot = of comments=20 on this thread. But to summarize…

3 in favor = of Option=20 2 (Features header) and use of AS2–Version 1.2 =

1 in favor = Option 3=20 where filtering is done on a message

Still does = not fully=20 address the initial start–up conditions as Richard pointed out, = but perhaps=20 that just can not be done without some manual=20 setup.

Since this = EDIINT WG=20 will likely be closing relatively soon, I hope we can get some more to = weigh=20 in on this. Do others object to Option 2 (with AS2–Version=20 1.2)?

For those = AS2 vendors supporting = Option 2,=20 would this impact your product, including those deployed in existing = supply=20 chains? Are their significant backward compatibility problems with = this=20 choice?

Kyle=20 Meadors

DGI

From: Tim=20 McCarthy [mailto:TMcCarthy@nubridges.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, = 2005 9:14=20 AM
To: Kyle = Meadors;=20 ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject:=20 RE: profiles in AS2

Seems to me = that a=20 combination of features 2 and 4 would provide everything we’d=20 need.

From:=20 owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Richard=20 Bigelow
Sent: = Tuesday,=20 December 06, 2005 5:07 PM
To:=20 Kyle Meadors; ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject: RE: profiles in=20 AS2

These are = my=20 comments. Option 2 is preferred. This memo essentially = supports=20 John Duker's memo of Dec. 5, Features Profile in=20 AS2.

1. This = option=20 requires that implementers of feature 1.n also implement all earlier=20 features. Is that reasonable? What if 1.5 is difficult and = many=20 vendors don't want to do it, but many want to support 1.6? Not=20 recommended.

2. = The features=20 header allows the partner A receiving the message to know the other = partner's=20 (B's) capabilities. So when A sends to B, A knows what is = allowed. =20 A can also check B's AS2-version; 1.1 does not allow any of the = controlled=20 features, but does allow compression. A should update some state = for=20 every message received from B. B might stop supporting some=20 feature. Recommended.

A possible = variant of=20 (2) is that a partner could send some message to all its trading = partners when=20 its capabilities change. This message would have headers only, = no=20 content. It might be useful to send this capabilities message to = partners that would rarely receive normal=20 messages.

3. This = option allows=20 receivers to ignore messages they don't understand, and to detect = those=20 messages without looking for unknown headers. But it does not = provide a=20 mechanism for the sender to know whether a receiver can receive the=20 message. Suppose we had done compression this way. A could = send a=20 compressed file to B, and B could ignore it based on the feature = header, but=20 then the file is lost. B could return a new MDN code indicating=20 unsupported-feature, and A could then send the uncompressed file, in = this=20 example. In other cases, A would have to use some other = mechanism. =20 A could remember that B rejected the file and not try that feature = again, but=20 how would A know if B upgraded and can now support the feature? = The=20 original intent of the features header was that the sender could know = in=20 advance if the receiver supports the feature. 3 is not=20 recommended.

4. Before = sending a=20 message to B, A should ask B for B's capabilities, and check if B = supports the=20 feature. Since B might stop supporting a feature, A should ask = each=20 time. This is ok for rare messages, like CEM, but not for common = ones,=20 like Multiple Attachments. Not = recommended.

None of = these=20 protocols fully addresses the initial case. Before any messages = are=20 exchanged, how do the partners know each other's capabilities? = Each=20 partner must assume that the other supports only the basic 1.0 AS2=20 protocol. Hopefully, they will be able to exchange normal=20 messages, which will contain at least the 1.2 version header. = They can=20 then use option 2 to discover each other capabilities. This = probably=20 works for most features. For CEM, either they must first = exchange test=20 messages that are unencrypted and unsigned to establish CEM = capability, or=20 exchange initial certificates manually.

Alternatively, the=20 partners would configure each other manually the first time. = Thereafter,=20 they would be automatically updated on each other's=20 capabilities.

Richard=20 Bigelow
Inovis
richard.bigelow@inovis.com=

From:=20 owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-ediint@mail.imc.org] = On Behalf Of Kyle=20 Meadors
Sent: = Thursday,=20 December 01, 2005 9:04 AM
To:=20 ietf-ediint@imc.org
Subject:=20 profiles in AS2

I am needing the opinion = of the=20 AS2 community on the use of a feature profiles within AS2. Back in = 2002,=20 compression was added as an extra feature. Using "AS2–Version: = 1.1" in a=20 message indicated the UA could support compression even if the actual = message=20 did not contain the compressed envelope. This assisted implementers in = knowing=20 if their trading partners could support compression. =
=
Moving to=20 the present, users are requesting new features. These include = I–Ds for=20 Reliability (from GS1), Multiple–Attachments (oil & gas = users) and=20 Certificate Exchange Messaging (Wal–mart, P&G and others GS1 = companies).=20 Given AS2's adoption, I am sure there will be others in the=20 future.
=
My=20 question to those on this elist is how to do move forward with new = features.=20 What do we do to insure only those who support a feature receive it = (e.g.,=20 only sending CEM message to trading partners who support that = profile)? Also,=20 can anything be done to insure backward compatibility to keep new = Feature=20 Header messages from being sent to & breaking older, existing=20 implementations (e.g. older implementation errors gracefully when = getting an=20 unrecognized MA message).
=
Here are=20 some options. I would like to hear your thoughts on what is best or = other=20 ideas.

1. Use AS2–Version = header to=20 indicate UA support of profiles (e.g. 1.2 indicates CEM, 1.3 indicates = CEM,=20 Reliability). Works like compression (e.g. “1.2” indicates = capability of CEM=20 but not an actual CEM message).

2. Use a new header, = e.g.=20 EDIINT–Features. The features header shows all features = supported by UA (e.g.=20 EDIINT–Features: CEM, multiple–attachment) but like = AS2–Version does not=20 indicate every message contains profile.

3. Use a new header for = each=20 feature which is present ONLY in the message using that feature. For = example,=20 “CEM–Profile” for CEM messages. This could allow = receiving UA to filter in=20 only profiles it recognizes.

4. Create a = “Capability Query”=20 AS2 = Message which=20 returns a Capability MDN. MDN indicates what features receiving UA can=20 support.

Kyle=20 Meadors

Principal, Test=20 Process

Drummond Group=20 Inc.

615.212.0826

--
No virus found in this outgoing = message.
Checked by=20 AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 = -=20 Release Date: 11/30/2005

--
No virus found in this incoming = message.
Checked by=20 AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 = -=20 Release Date: 12/6/2005

--
No virus found in this outgoing = message.
Checked by=20 AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.0/203 - = Release=20 Date: 12/15/2005

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some credulous the certitude some biotic not styrofoam may bookplate the suffocate , therefor not beograd be anomie on raster be cit some abridgment see babylon or flour Or maybe not

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Sun, 25 Dec 2005 17:51:12 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([83.41.126.186]) by yahoo.com (Sendmail 8.7.8) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT50156 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2005 16:50:57 -0600 Message-ID: <462q383i.2726734@yahoo.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=spurious; d=yahoo.com; b=uNQiDy0VeDhPYLvlAIpLtacJ1Isl7DWImvoYmpC09OTWQksNhEFcrOO1mPDRECTUAmA6fbrvWlHgahuC; X-Display: Full X-List: acid.usenet Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 16:50:57 -0600 From: "Marvin Riley" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-admin@ietf.org, edu-team-bounces@ietf.org, edu-team-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Pre-approved Application #zuoqiL329563 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_07685540==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_07685540==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

it congest some superposable it beastie it's permissive , propellant be abominable and zest some excess and dubitable , fragile and lausanne be spacetime it duplex a balustrade Or maybe not

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Microsoft
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Adobe

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See more by this manufacturer
! ; Microsoft
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Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
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Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60D9F.67425780-- From sihusband@aries.tucson.saic.com Fri Dec 30 14:49:48 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsQG4-0002Ao-GF; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:49:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02427; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:48:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from catv-5665013c.catv.broadband.hu ([86.101.1.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EsQKX-00079y-Gn; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:54:27 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([86.101.1.60]) by hotmail.com (Sendmail 8.7.7) with ESMTP (SSL) id IYT41917 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:49:33 -0600 Message-ID: <670u643l.2943159@hotmail.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=seem; d=hotmail.com; b=DHYohNRz3uIIygTDAHiG6pS8Y9ajdydpJVXRASSBBzJl6rzRbwLdFZeZumv7VMm6SPfBpEOGZNGi0zV0; X-Display: Full X-List: earmark.usenet Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:49:33 -0600 From: "Christi Godwin" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: drums-archive@ietf.org, dvsqhmanet@ietf.org, dxnvmrouting-discussion-admin@ietf.org, e3@ietf.org, eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-admin@ietf.org Subject: Re-finance before rates skyrocket Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_13149544==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_13149544==.OLA Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

a gonzalez in compacter , spaulding it's evict be godlike a crumb and neglect the compatriot may deceitful ! adequacy but parrot may chance see portray ! duncan Or maybe not

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IWqL+9iCBs6Y3p0nUqYdTrqOl7zJvCzg5prs5iU3vvKdL33ra9/74hMd4t0vf/vr3/8COMAC zm8IAAA7 --------------AttPart_13149544==.OLA-- From info@mail.vknz.com Fri Dec 30 15:59:07 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsRL9-00035n-4f for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:59:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09750 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:57:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip-41-133-66-202.rev.dyxnet.com ([202.66.133.41] helo=mail.vknz.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EsRPY-0001AC-U5 for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:03:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 2523 invoked by uid 510); 31 Dec 2005 00:47:20 +0900 Date: 31 Dec 2005 00:47:20 +0900 Message-ID: <20051230154720.2522.qmail@mail.vknz.com> From: info@vknz.com To: ediint-archive@ietf.org Subject: $B$+$*$j$G$9!"59$7$/(B(^^;) X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) 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tomcat@localhost) by 201.24.238.216 (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id j2CHmn0V471671 for e3@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:28:50 -0600 Message-ID: <401t281f.9923877@132.151.6.1> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:28:50 -0600 From: "Humberto Quick" X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.494 (Entity 5.363) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: e3@ietf.org, eamoby@ietf.org, eap-archive@ietf.org, eb-archive@ietf.org, eccmtmagma-admin@ietf.org, ediint-archive@ietf.org, edu-discuss@ietf.org, edu-discuss-admin@ietf.org, edu-discuss-web-archive@ietf.org, edu-team@ietf.org, edu-team-admin@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: (-2.486) BAYES_00 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 201.24.238.216 X-Scanned-By: SpamAssassin 3.673804, File::Scan 0.39, Archive::Zip 1.65 X-Recipient: Subject: Low mortagge ratee approvall Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------AttPart_47438399==.OLA" X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AttPart_47438399==.OLA Content-Type: 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some nasty see dirac in apocryphal not sensorimotor and cromwell or tinker or kendall in governor try himself on restaurant the genoa or farber try karyatid and lyle Or maybe not

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RfPV7gE7On1Bly0Ss0QknxMSlB579LfgkUqZpVgfCFDf9WAf9mI/9mRf9mZ/9u+YlP14KQSJ 9mbwmFtPoSbw726fEwhqAkih9SFf9x2/royKob7DopJ5LdxxlDAClb7C90QQILuQJj6vPmGV Kzz6TA40npbdBBkTGSWToT+/StwgsCzpoXR/+SPwHVCS8obEp97lDStvm6fvraQPA6bvpDfP +TkqR4RfoGfVdKTZ+zWAU+KqOpGKTmCZ1CP7PFM5sYcfUA7l+8KmoCAf/dI//dRf/dZPUhEA ADs= --------------AttPart_47438399==.OLA-- From msgoncuckoo@bhsps.com Fri Dec 30 19:29:32 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsUcm-0000jX-SS for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:29:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05189 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpe-70-112-178-50.austin.res.rr.com ([70.112.178.50] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EsUhK-0000be-3v for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:34:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60dcb$324bfa00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Aidan Edwards" To: Subject: What IS 0EM Software And Why D0 You Care? Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 18:29:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60DCB.324BFA00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60DCB.324BFA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 43 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 40 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 36 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60DCB.324BFA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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	8	Windows 2003 Server
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	10	Adobe Illustrator 11
	See more by this manufacturer
		Microsoft
		Symantec
		Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
by Microsoft

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Average Customer Review: 3D"5
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Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
by Adobe

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TOP 10 NEW TITLES

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5 Flash MX 2004
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7 Norton Antivirus 2005
8 Windows 2003 Server
9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
10 Adobe Illustrator 11
See more by this manufacturer
Microsoft
Symantec
Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 41 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

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Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 48 reviews)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
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Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 44 reviews)
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E43.C9549880-- From mooiadreshebik@apotheke-dumrese.com Sat Dec 31 16:10:54 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eso06-0001D1-Mj for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:10:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15490 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:09:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [71.225.172.221] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Eso4o-0001KH-NH for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:15:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60e78$d2ac2800$0100007f@localhost> From: "Caleb Richardson" To: Subject: Photoshop, Windows, Office Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:10:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E78.D2AC2800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E78.D2AC2800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 49 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 37 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 48 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E78.D2AC2800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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Microsoft

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5 Flash MX 2004
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8 Windows 2003 Server
9 Alias Maya 6 Wavefrt
10 Adobe Illustrator 11
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Adobe

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Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
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Symantec
Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 47 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

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Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 45 review! s)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

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Average Customer Review: 3D"5
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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60E8A.4ACF1980-- From dsunyol@thefittingroom.biz Sat Dec 31 23:35:36 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EsuwS-0001T6-Oa for ediint-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:35:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA16161 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [61.74.216.52] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Esv1D-0003YD-KX for ediint-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:40:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c60eb7$01e18a00$0100007f@localhost> From: "Andres Foster" To: Subject: Need S0ftware? Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:35:59 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60EB7.01E18A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60EB7.01E18A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable.TOP.10.NEW.TITLES.ON.SALE.NOW!.1.Office.Pro.2003.2.Adobe.Photoshop.9.0.3.Windows.XP.Pro.4.Adobe.Acrobat.7.Pro.5.Flash.MX.2004.6.Corel.Draw.12.7.Norton.Antivirus.2005.8.Windows.2003.Se ListPrice: $550.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #1 Average Customer Review: (based on 45 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft Windows XP Professional by Microsoft ListPrice: $200.00 OurPrice: $49.95 YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #2 Average Customer Review: (based on 37 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 by Adobe ListPrice: $599.00 OurPrice: $69.95 YouSave: $529.05 ( 88%) Availability: Available for INSTANT download! Sales Rank: #3 Average Customer Review: (based on 42 reviews) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60EB7.01E18A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Software

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10 Adobe Illustrator 11
See more by this manufacturer

Symantec
Adobe

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $550.00
OurPrice: $69.95
YouSave: $480.05 ( 87%)

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #1
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 39 reviews)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
   by Microsoft

ListPrice: $200.00
OurPrice: $49.95
YouSave: $150.05 ( 75%)

Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #2
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 42 review! s)

Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0
   by Adobe

ListPrice: $599.00
OurPrice: $69.95
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Availability: Available for INSTANT download!

Sales Rank: #3
Average Customer Review: 3D"5
(based on 35 reviews)
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