From nobody Wed Jan 9 02:58:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E52130DCA; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 02:58:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com, ekr@rtfm.com, emu-chairs@ietf.org, emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154703152434.7385.4387882437136330227.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 02:58:44 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] emu - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 10:58:45 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Mohit Sethi, a Chair of the emu working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: EAP Method Update Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Mohit Sethi Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: saag tls cfrg lwig Second Priority: curdle uta secdispatch oauth 6lo mls Third Priority: sacm quic kitten bier acme t2trg People who must be present: Eric Rescorla Jari Arkko Joseph A. Salowey John Mattsson Mohit Sethi Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Jan 9 10:24:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1A6130FA3 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mFzybVxKm8bt for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from xenon43.um.es (xenon43.um.es [155.54.212.170]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45494130F73 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xenon43.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02D520886 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:24:51 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by antispam in UMU at xenon43.um.es Received: from xenon43.um.es ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (xenon43.um.es [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 1PxUmUb2y5x7 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:24:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.22.74.226] (unknown [155.54.213.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: eduardo.ingles) by xenon43.um.es (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6B8520843 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:24:48 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Eduardo_Ingl=c3=a9s_UM?= To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:24:48 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: es-ES Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Questions about EAP-NOOB draft X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 18:24:56 -0000 Dear Tuomas, First of all, I would like to say that EAP-NOOB draft is very complete and understandable. Also, with regard to the rest of the solutions I have found, I think it is a great solution so far and I like the way to approach the problems. I am working on implementing EAP-NOOB on resource-constrained devices for our use case. But I have the following 2 questions: 1. Regarding the key derivation section. There, it is explained the use of ECDHE for the key exchange. Do you have in mind to accept any alternatives besides the one explained in the draft? Maybe weaker methods or stronger but not so constrained. 2. I have a concrete use case. Specifically, I am interested in knowing how the Reconnect State works. In the scenario there are some devices that are going to be installed and then they will be inaccessible to be able to repeat the OOB step. These devices already have the corresponding security associations with a specific RealM. For example, a device from the University of Murcia is managed by a company called Odins. Now we assume that Odins stops managing those devices and Ericsson becomes the new manager with his own AAA Infrastructure. To establish the new RealM, I understand that the device should be restarted and the entire process done. Is there a mechanism to allow migration without having to repeat the OOB step? Regards, Eduardo Inglés. 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Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:13:28 +0000 From: John Mattsson To: "emu@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: EAP-TLS 1.3 TLS-Exporter context_value Thread-Index: AQHUqa9wQ18m4pcvdUecqn8Y9fn15w== Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:13:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.14.0.181208 x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.87] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VI1PR07MB3983; 6:4LYFRQJBqo8S/h5shdlpGr+EMZlEkv4X00wWTgSnAyqexzO2rZpPTLaXxvrlObTVc0/uGJM9xOce8qp7RLwkX4dJ9GlZK7FNm0smh2gLVsbbV5lLK3fApcgpKQPeeJ8SmV7CuwBWzM43hB7u5MI6efGRNt4H89hCalSQv0wFoDWh1ngTBmFtdippO6dr4s7CEG5u+khRr695hjnH9TSAbcSAgD8BeN+2vbpp+Q44jziAXlag/OWJq8wrSIGDb8V/TBgycOhYxC7UvnYaH8v6csUb3B0ELh6Ex2h7q3s4rr6mNK6INZknHqcZw83O3NnQe/Bw1DDN1RDT1/y+vXRQWoFI56c0ntlV/s6DxoQuWyewyrnKLOPtR3FjAWcZwg05PFOZ8sfFD2/rJHHUOc6qzIDkOKpUY+0CifNWyJ/GCVBVkvFjRFKUZGZKcr+jeQ9bm4vJPJWdLZ9a8P/gi3D4WQ==; 5:YNa4u0vU0vV+oLvKdHg0YwKeyouEhjOesLZ98J7oeHen9/27XUTrIOHQ57ww1qbmLEFLQLb3xQX5056fLLR5DgM/1m7csyOtT1GMopRCo8f8eVTNQ3b4wVn6dtJ9eW8puypzQ9lBvlHB16KOV5QvbDZx1ciXRU1wWA19Hk+HsTLFTDoFX2NBPvvlziuwEe4/jijvxRGzlne2aQqiA7Xjiw==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3983; H:VI1PR07MB4175.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=john.mattsson@ericsson.com; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: vsrijckYzOEqv8fm8LC6D/QhwJ0xPZ7hVtXJ/cnZSgHqko6kZTaAvi8nwTPQS456htHBr2lQB0BIvkoybYIkKMhMWRdbZPQGJbnqtP54Rym7kjrPiJx32K05tzzOPP1/qcsksXcBmUHUHEIFdAfcXt+/GVbcRTyptdKVIoWq4nxdMOpuiFkuYRte3+3nOCkAxixcM+vTtSMITx1U/1yx8ItkhtRT/h5Eu+8Rfok0iHHzdbTruvv3ZTlkjGnmDTQ+5eqCZUi8Ex5ljmlzIxCdsbe9T8CJakB3rQdlY3hZ5YnIWMSw9rt2ITaMBgUpYdQ6yGLWKGH0st6UxluRJMdULHbwe+xYMH6cxNBoygyqMKrtroIDnTZZ3yOWv1qVtSrTHLJ788hmfaPAEKg2VZOF9DIlOoQyptK8EGYqJ7Asj78= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d14efb1a-6834-4fac-e465-08d677c6937c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Jan 2019 13:13:28.0388 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3983 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpnleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9QrdymkWMwd9WZYtj69eyODB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY9O6N8wFNwQqbn/pYmxgXCDQxcjJISFgInF222K2LkYuDiGB I4wSU3fvZIdwvjFKfLz2nBWkSkhgCZPEvR9FIAkWgQnMEl27VzBBVE1gknh1dS4zhPOIUWLG zyeMIC1sAgYSc/c0sIHYIgKKEj8utTGD2MIC+hJHZk9jgoibSMzdcgmqRk9i6Z0pYHEWAVWJ 5o17wep5BewlJnesZgexGQXEJL6fWgNWwywgLnHryXwmiCcEJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8D+xsUaBd Dz4dAOrlAIorSCz5KwlRIitxaX43I8jNEgJN7BLv7k2D6tWV+DB1KpTtK7F5/U82iKILjBLT V72CWqYlMWV+G1RRtkT3rC6ouIxE16ZJUFPvs0pcPjSRCRJ4qRLL17YyQnwQK9HaOp0VokFO YlXvQ5YJjHqzkDw0C+hYZgFNifW79CHCHhJbLv1kgbAVJaZ0P2SfBQ4XQYmTM5+wLGBkXcUo WpxaXJybbmSkl1qUmVxcnJ+nl5dasokRmDwObvlttYPx4HPHQ4wCHIxKPLx6NRYxQqyJZcWV uYcYJTiYlUR4T+cBhXhTEiurUovy44tKc1KLDzFKc7AoifP+ERKMERJITyxJzU5NLUgtgsky cXBKNTCu5Oir9496yn51m9u79tvWfeuuGGXpNjQtXDBdVW+ntO+XT2enrze4pXTfcM1iw7Mq uW+31Z77P32DSOuNL9WOqzfEsXutq1E5l/XMiu/u2etefQcfvDQ28Ey6dZzntUXDuTUzohdu 3eY79WvQ072RBX8vCe7UEDYzW8funiM6c7V5+6uf0vGzlViKMxINtZiLihMBuna7/hoDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] EAP-TLS 1.3 TLS-Exporter context_value X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:13:33 -0000 SGksDQoNClJGQyA4NDQ2IGRlZmluZXMgdGhlIFRMUy1FeHBvcnRlciBpbnRlcmZhY2UgYXM6DQoN CiAgIFRMUy1FeHBvcnRlcihsYWJlbCwgY29udGV4dF92YWx1ZSwga2V5X2xlbmd0aCkNCg0KZHJh ZnQtaWV0Zi1lbXUtZWFwLXRsczEzIGlzIHVzaW5nIHRoZSBleHBvcnRlciBpbnRlcmZhY2Ugd2l0 aG91dCBjb250ZXh0Og0KDQogICBLZXlfTWF0ZXJpYWwgPSBUTFMtRXhwb3J0ZXIoIkVYUE9SVEVS X0VBUF9UTFNfS2V5X01hdGVyaWFsIiwgIiIsIDEyOCkNCiAgIElWICAgICAgICAgICA9IFRMUy1F eHBvcnRlcigiRVhQT1JURVJfRUFQX1RMU19JViIsICIiLCA2NCkNCiAgIE1ldGhvZC1JZCAgICA9 IFRMUy1FeHBvcnRlcigiRVhQT1JURVJfRUFQX1RMU19NZXRob2QtSWQiLCAiIiwgNjQpDQogICBT ZXNzaW9uLUlkICAgPSAweDBEIHx8IE1ldGhvZC1JZA0KDQpUaGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBkaWQg bmV2ZXIgcmVhbGx5IGRpc2N1c3MgdGhlIGNvbnRleHRfdmFsdWUgcGFyYW1ldGVyLiBTbyBqdXN0 IHRvIGJyaW5nIHVwIHRoZSBxdWVzdGlvbjogSXMgdGhlcmUgYW55IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGZyb20g dGhlIEVBUC1SZXF1ZXN0cyBhbmQgRUFQLVJlc3BvbnNlcyB0aGF0IHNob3VsZCAoYW5kIGNvdWxk KSBiZSBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dF92YWx1ZSB0byBlbnN1cmUgdGhhdCB0aGUgRUFQ IFBlZXIgYW5kIEVBUCBTZXZlciBhZ3JlZSB0aGF0IHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBnb3R0ZW4gdGhlIHNhbWUg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24uIEUuZy4gZnJvbSB0aGVzZSBtZXNzYWdlczoNCg0KICAgIEVBUCBQZWVyICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEVBUCBTZXJ2ZXINCg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg RUFQLVJlcXVlc3QvDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPC0tLS0tLS0tICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBJZGVudGl0eQ0KICAgIEVBUC1SZXNwb25zZS8NCiAgICBJZGVudGl0 eSAoQW5vbnltb3VzIE5BSSkgICAtLS0tLS0tLT4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEVBUC1SZXF1ZXN0Lw0KICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEVBUC1UeXBlPUVBUC1UTFMN CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8LS0tLS0tLS0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAoVExTIFN0YXJ0KQ0KDQpSRkMgNTIxNiBkb2VzIG5vdCBpbmNsdWRlIGFueSBzdWNoIGluZm9y bWF0aW9uIGluIHRoZSBrZXkgZGVyaXZhdGlvbiwgYnV0IGFzIHRoZSBncm91cCBoYXMgYWdyZWVk IHRvIG1vZGlmeSB0aGUga2V5IGRlcml2YXRpb24gbWVjaGFuaXNtIGZvciBFQVAtVExTIDEuMywg aXQgd291bGQgYmUgcmVsYXRpdmVseSBlYXN5IHRvIGFkZCBjb250ZXh0IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGlz IHRoYXQgaXMgYmVsaWV2ZWQgdG8gaW5jcmVhc2UgY3VycmVudCBvciBmdXR1cmUgc2VjdXJpdHku DQoNCkNoZWVycywNCkpvaG4NCg0K From nobody Fri Jan 11 05:56:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF20B1228B7 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 05:56:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RuuTdQEi5vUg for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 05:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288DC124BAA for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 05:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99087447; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:56:28 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:56:31 -0500 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5F450D9F-A6C2-479A-AD4F-FC2B2E5A68E8@deployingradius.com> References: To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] EAP-TLS 1.3 TLS-Exporter context_value X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:56:33 -0000 On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:13 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > The working group did never really discuss the context_value = parameter. So just to bring up the question: Is there any information = from the EAP-Requests and EAP-Responses that should (and could) be = included in the context_value to ensure that the EAP Peer and EAP Sever = agree that they have gotten the same information. I'll note that the TLS-Exporter function is used after authentication = succeeds, which makes a difference to what information can be used. If = we use a context_value, we should choose one that has the most = information, and therefore the most utility. > E.g. from these messages: >=20 > EAP Peer EAP Server >=20 > EAP-Request/ > <-------- Identity > EAP-Response/ > Identity (Anonymous NAI) --------> > EAP-Request/ > EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS > <-------- (TLS Start) I would think that all of the public information (such as the data = here) isn't suitable for use in the context_value. Even if it was suitable, what data would we use? If we use = certificate privacy and exchange the client cert only in the inner = tunnel (i.e. EAP-TLS inside of EAP-TLS). There is minimal data in the = outer session that both peer and server can agree on. Well, there's an = anonymous NAI, but that isn't good for much. > RFC 5216 does not include any such information in the key derivation, = but as the group has agreed to modify the key derivation mechanism for = EAP-TLS 1.3, it would be relatively easy to add context information is = that is believed to increase current or future security. If we believe the argument above, the only data suitable for use in = context_value is data *both* parties know from the inner tunnel = exchange. That generally means information related to client / server = certificates. And I'm not sure what information from the certs would be used. We = presume that the certs are already correct and validated. TLS ensures = that the TLS-Exporter function depends on the TLS exchange, which = depends on the certs. So using information from the certs seems = pointless. And what additional information should be added to TLS-Exporter that = would make it *better*? EAP-TLS doesn't provide for a way to peer and = server to send additional data, unlike EAP-TTLS, so there isn't much = that can be done here In the end, I think any information we could use is already being = used to derive TLS-Exporter, and there's no real way to get additional = information. And even if there was, it's not clear what information = would make the TLS-Exporter "better". Or even what "better" means in = this context. Alan DeKok. From nobody Thu Jan 17 13:46:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C30130E5E; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:46:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <154776158904.10374.6075759456329677838@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:46:29 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:46:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : Improved Extensible Authentication Protocol Method for 3rd Generation Authentication and Key Agreement (EAP-AKA') Authors : Jari Arkko Vesa Lehtovirta Vesa Torvinen Pasi Eronen Filename : draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-04.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2019-01-17 Abstract: The 3rd Generation Authentication and Key Agreement (AKA) is the primary authentication mechanism for devices wishing to access mobile networks. RFC 4187 (EAP-AKA) made the use of this mechanism possible within the Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) framework. RFC 5448 (EAP-AKA') was an improved version of EAP-AKA. This memo is an update of the specification for EAP-AKA'. This version obsoletes RFC 5448. EAP-AKA' differs from EAP-AKA by providing a key derivation function that binds the keys derived within the method to the name of the access network. The key derivation function has been defined in the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP). EAP-AKA' allows its use in EAP in an interoperable manner. EAP-AKA' is also an algorithm update, as it employs SHA-256 instead of SHA-1 as in EAP-AKA. This version of EAP-AKA' specification specifies the protocol behaviour for 5G deployments as well. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jan 17 13:47:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFDC130E65 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:47:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XaNOkeoNmmVx for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:1829::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4159512958B for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5314C660187; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:47:31 +0200 (EET) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6QA77G4jx_To; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:47:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:1829::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8934E6600C4; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:47:29 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 22:47:28 +0100 Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <62269D11-617A-49ED-8692-24EA70D8A633@piuha.net> References: To: Russ Housley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-03 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:47:35 -0000 Russ, Thanks again for your comments. A new version has been posted, with = changes to e.g. the abstract and the introduction. Can you check if you = like these better, and if any further changes come to mind? Thanks. Jari > On 14 Nov 2018, at 6.06, Russ Housley wrote: >=20 > I agreed to review this document at IETF 103. Here are my comments. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-03 > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review Date: 2018-11-13 >=20 > Summary: Almost Ready >=20 >=20 > Major Concerns: >=20 > The Abstract is essentially unchanged from RFC 5448. I think it would > be better to provide the history of AKA and AKA' in a sentence or two > and then tell the big changes that appear here. I found the part = about > SHA-1 especially concerning until I realized that was left over from = the > RFC 5448 Abstract text. >=20 > I think the Introduction should be updated to provide a perspective = for > a new implementer. I suggest something like this: > - 3GPP uses AKA' natively and as an EAP method. > - EAP-AKA originally defined in [RFC4187] > - EAP-AKA' defined in [RFC5448], and uses KDF in [TS-3GPP.33.402] > - This update supports identifiers needed for 5G > -- This version of the EAP-AKA' specification obsoletes RFC 5448 > -- List of the changes made by this update > - Negotiation of the various versions >=20 > Section 3.2 says: >=20 > AT_KDF >=20 > This is set to 24. >=20 > And, then Section 3.3 says: >=20 > AT_KDF set to 1 >=20 > The second one is shorthand for the KDF identifier carried in the > attribute. I think that you should not use this shorthand. I > stumbled on it when reading. I suggest: >=20 > AT_KDF parameter has the value 1 >=20 > Section 5.3 says: >=20 > Given the choice between these two types of identifiers, two areas > need further specification in EAP-AKA' to ensure that different > implementations understand each other and stay interoperable: >=20 > This should be reworded. These do not need future specification. > Those details are in the document. I think it would be better to say: >=20 > Given the choice between these two types of identifiers, EAP-AKA' > ensure interoperability by: >=20 >=20 > Minor Concerns: >=20 > Section 3: s/EAP-AKA' is a new EAP method/EAP-AKA' is an EAP method/ >=20 > Section 3 does not seem to be different from RFC 5448. Would it be > better to list the changes from RFC 4187 (AKA to AKA') and then the > changes from RFC 5448 (AKA' to this update)? >=20 >=20 > Nits: >=20 > The document uses "key generation" and "key derivation". If they are > different, please add an explanation somewhere. If they are the same, > please use one term throughout. >=20 > The document uses "byte" and "octet". Please use one term throughout. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Emu mailing list > Emu@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu From nobody Fri Jan 18 01:20:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC445131174 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 01:20:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UkcHpwu7yMdd for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 01:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:1829::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4C8128D0C for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 01:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0CC660133; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:20:13 +0200 (EET) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LH2n3L5zq6oO; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:20:12 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:1829::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 769F2660131; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:20:12 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <1379F403-7BAA-432C-A455-F5F1E530D9DE@sn3rd.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:20:11 +0100 Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1379F403-7BAA-432C-A455-F5F1E530D9DE@sn3rd.com> To: Sean Turner X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] minor Issues/PRs for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:20:17 -0000 Sean: I believe I have addressed all your comments. The new draft = includes changes; the git issues have some responses. If you can, take a look at the new version! Jari From nobody Mon Jan 21 08:16:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9CD130F1B; Mon, 21 Jan 2019 08:16:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <154808739620.8261.4717999879748070386@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 08:16:36 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs-04.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 16:16:36 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : Perfect-Forward Secrecy for the Extensible Authentication Protocol Method for Authentication and Key Agreement (EAP-AKA' PFS) Authors : Jari Arkko Karl Norrman Vesa Torvinen Filename : draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs-04.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-01-21 Abstract: Many different attacks have been reported as part of revelations associated with pervasive surveillance. Some of the reported attacks involved compromising smart cards, such as attacking SIM card manufacturers and operators in an effort to compromise shared secrets stored on these cards. Since the publication of those reports, manufacturing and provisioning processes have gained much scrutiny and have improved. However, the danger of resourceful attackers for these systems is still a concern. This specification is an optional extension to the EAP-AKA' authentication method which was defined in RFC 5448 (to be superseded by draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis). The extension, when negotiated, provides Perfect Forward Secrecy for the session key generated as a part of the authentication run in EAP-AKA'. This prevents an attacker who has gained access to the long-term pre-shared secret in a SIM card from being able to decrypt all past communications. In addition, if the attacker stays merely a passive eavesdropper, the extension prevents attacks against future sessions. This forces attackers to use active attacks instead. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jan 24 17:28:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA88112950A for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:28:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d2DdnH27o6bd for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com (mail-qt1-x835.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A23F128D09 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id i7so9025838qtj.10 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:28:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=2YOHyvF6kvuhN93wHGUfotwaRSb6Oo+uP2f5mR8vXig=; b=eDhcNXrCIstzuh41jC/J3MREkkvg5iD4RKy4M61jezAgo0T8pS5zY5lopb5ms58Uqc 6o0OAECY/agf/dtn+/uMd93EEQlIAEz/m0J22Q+CbEAjAccwj3/Qk6lQi3/An6BMeL7U NLF0NfTLZoTJZDhVIV8WgNeXJ5eVGfQ+GBzAI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=2YOHyvF6kvuhN93wHGUfotwaRSb6Oo+uP2f5mR8vXig=; b=Tw1pkN+ndRdmrzChZmdcOp/xTyqyPhIbde63XtjQGRFIGaEuPFsOVvNScICF2qGoLd eE8hKY7nWd5ns6rcfTg6U3akABfDQuN+u4dBVxy/uyRyPznr5o6k2RAboOepkLhC1G5v KjXPQAG84V0oMvHkNmzXNfU+kVSl0fAanoJbYKcVSmumJypsgBsJlic9NbZq3wCIQVVR 0j+eqJBWP9QVmZSnsh22mwrPXGWnw/Q3gwiPJCfYpXjpIXOvlo1ffbAiXPFGyV1Y6QT6 wXifKHsmOXT9rQORcxla41XB55WiQ9iyKrFvh4uHHuyuohJZJXVapNoPxvi7kC9z+Kt6 4NuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeYEvgxpBUIV9p9ifrnc9aCP1mh2z63EqlwI34XOs7C00fhEBpf SydCfga+QiooHxgrnuGSqEW/jv41mnlhZA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5UFgGxoKGf2/qEFjMfoXZDTaAeY495qhK0khsm2TUZ2/vdWEQ2Djx5NRVTC4aWsHS0wsXVUA== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:872a:: with SMTP id 39mr8295586qvh.1.1548379705279; Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:28:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.0.18] ([96.231.217.246]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z18sm46122825qkz.96.2019.01.24.17.28.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:28:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 20:28:23 -0500 Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <640D3530-F00D-4123-9D66-71773387FFAE@sn3rd.com> References: <1379F403-7BAA-432C-A455-F5F1E530D9DE@sn3rd.com> To: Jari Arkko X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] minor Issues/PRs for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 01:28:28 -0000 I will have time on an plane trip next week. Thanks for taking care of = these so quickly. spt > On Jan 18, 2019, at 04:20, Jari Arkko wrote: >=20 > Sean: I believe I have addressed all your comments. The new draft = includes changes; the git issues have some responses. >=20 > If you can, take a look at the new version! >=20 > Jari >=20 From nobody Sun Jan 27 09:20:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E39130E81 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:20:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKb9VUPEK7ci for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC202130E00 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 09:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC114333 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:20:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Alan DeKok Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 12:20:23 -0500 To: emu@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Implementation report for EAP-TLS 1.3: OK, with nits X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:20:29 -0000 We've been doing interoperability testing of EAP-TLS 1.3, and have = some comments. The testing was made more difficult by issues in = different software. We've been using OpenSSL, FreeRADIUS, and = wpa_supplicant. In short, it mostly works, or it should work by the end = of next week. But you will likely have to use the most recent source = from revision control. Older versions of the software either don't = support TLS 1.3, or have implementation issues which break = interoperability. One major issue which isn't highlighted in the -03 draft is derived = from RFC 5216 Section 2.3: MSK =3D Key_Material(0,63) EMSK =3D Key_Material(64,127) If an implementation does not use EMSK, then the temptation would be = to ask for 63 octets, not 128. This worked for TLS 1.2 and earlier. It = does not work in TLS 1.3. In TLS 1.3, the output text explicitly depends on the amount of data = requested. RFC 8446 Section 7.1 says: HKDF-Expand-Label(Secret, Label, Context, Length) =3D HKDF-Expand(Secret, HkdfLabel, Length) Which means that implementations cannot truncate the output by asking = for less data. We've seen this in practice where a number of EAP types worked, but = some didn't. On working through the issues, the client software didn't = use EMSK, and therefore only asked for 64 octets. We're filing a bug = with the implementors, but it's important enough that it should also be = noted here. The -03 draft is correct, in that it has the lengths given as inputs = to the KDF in Section 2.3: Key_Material =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Key_Material", "", = 128) IV =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_IV", "", 64) Method-Id =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Method-Id", "", 64) Session-Id =3D 0x0D || Method-Id However, I think it's worth adding a note here for implementors. = Something like: -- We note that the key derivation MUST use the length values given = above. Where in TLS 1.2 and earlier it was possible to truncate the = output by requesting less data from the TLS-Exporter function, this = practice is not possible with TLS 1.3. If an implementation intends to = use only part of the output of the TLS-Exporter function, then it MUST = ask for the full output, and then only use part of that output. Failure = to do so will result in incorrect values being calculated for the above = keying material. -- Alan DeKok. From nobody Mon Jan 28 03:39:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E19F130FBA for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 03:39:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=odins.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WFgTgdruVYf4 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 03:38:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from correo-05.hosteurope.es (correo-11.hosteurope.es [62.138.138.141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 841DA12D4EC for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 03:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [62.138.138.133] (port=49766 helo=correo-06.hosteurope.es) by correo-05.hosteurope.es with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1go5Fc-0005jX-L2; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:38:52 +0100 Received: from [62.138.138.12] (port=58202 helo=hl312.hosteurope.es) by correo-06.hosteurope.es with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1go5FR-00017y-Dq; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:38:42 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=odins.es; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From:Cc:To: Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=MLynru+o018OgnjhtdyoZkT0w1JTn1CpbLH+t6BTPMk=; b=In4LxSUxpedjefBAnzqQbvdfSN Nx5Ti0bSP67ShxdEk9zQbhz6R3bz3GO7tnxbzTEveXFECm4GfQkjAdUbuCQfymlIjs9kKfBdts0z/ 2I8Fh+EA/cFZaW7QmYQPoKlCQHKmPP6XQVdGwCpQz2IHF5wIDwcWD6uelr1+xbgmiXatttw9cSwgB ovVtdl2H6dC+qb9mPAnusKxIrN+z3kxgsTt28krl12jDaHUDCYb18RBbdSqg90nyyCq4wX8IQXJeu +eGEVOKVhS/Q/qPK8PFbqL8s26k7nNGmUvViZRbflNZa85gdZkmqXcNjYHH5tCulT+bC2Ju31HYJE zIw63Eww==; Received: from pleiades-98-191.inf.um.es ([155.54.98.191]:50086) by hl312.hosteurope.es with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1go5FR-00079f-Ro; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:38:41 +0100 To: emu@ietf.org From: Dan Garcia Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:38:41 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------37C9F06C4C3A2DBC6BC07943" Content-Language: en-US X-RC-Spam-Status: No, score=1.2 X-RC-Spam-Score: 12 X-RC-Spam-Bar: + X-RC-Spam-Report: DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=1.274, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 X-RC-Spam-Flag: X-RC-Spam-Checker-Version: MataSpam on correo-06.hosteurope.es X-Spam-Bar: + Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Questions about EAP-NOOB X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:39:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------37C9F06C4C3A2DBC6BC07943 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Toumas, Mohit, We have been discussing EAP NOOB draft we would like to ask some questions about it. It is a very interesting approach related to IoT. In EAP-NOOB as first step the EAP authenticator starts the authenction (e.g. the AP), eap-noob happens but it seems there will be a EAP failure , is this correct? Assuming it is, if you send an EAP failure, will the EAP method still continue? How would this work? Since we are waiting, we assume, from an EAP success, or an alternative way of confirmation that the authentication has been completed. It seems that the user gets something from the IoT device this something is due to the ECDH, right? Regarding the discovery of the EAP authenticator. The AP should announce what are the available domains to where it is connected ( a solution based on the AAA infraestructure ?) Could this information be provided to the AP using IEEE 802.11u? Related to this, what would be the realm provided by the EAP peer to the authenticator? Another question would be which are the main radio technologies where EAP NOOB is expected to be used. Are you planning to support 802.15.4, WIFI, etc? In this line, do you have any EAP-NOOB implementation in Contiki? Thank you in advance. Best Regards. Dan and Rafa. -- Firma Correo ================================================================= *Dan Garcia Carrillo, Ph.D. Doctorado Industrial (MINECO) E-mail: dgarcia@odins.es ******* Odin Solutions, S.L. Polígono Industrial Oeste C/ Perú, 5, 3º, Oficina 12 30820 - Alcantarilla (Murcia) - Spain Tlf.: +34 902 570 121 Web: www.odins.es ================================================================= AVISO LEGAL: La información contenida en este correo electrónico, y en su caso en los documentos adjuntos, es información privilegiada para uso exclusivo de la persona y/o personas a las que va dirigido. No está permitido el acceso a este mensaje a cualquier otra persona distinta a los indicados. Si usted no es uno de los destinatarios, cualquier duplicación, reproducción, distribución, así como cualquier uso de la información contenida en él o cualquiera otra acción u omisión tomada en relación con el mismo, está prohibida y puede ser ilegal. En dicho caso, por favor notifíquelo al remitente y proceda a la eliminación de este correo electrónico, así como de sus adjuntos si los hubiere. Asimismo, y en cumplimiento de Ley Orgánica 3/2018 de protección de datos de carácter personal y garantía de los derechos digitales y del Reglamento Europeo RGPD 679/2016 le informamos que sus datos están siendo objeto de tratamiento por parte de ODIN SOLUTIONS, S.L. con N.I.F. B-73.845.893, con la finalidad del mantenimiento y gestión de relaciones comerciales y administrativas. La base jurídica del tratamiento es el cumplimiento de la legislación fiscal, mercantil y contable. No se prevén cesiones y/o transferencias internacionales de datos. Para ejercitar sus derechos puede dirigirse a ODIN SOLUTIONS, S.L., domiciliada en C/ Perú, 5, 3º, Oficina 12, Pol. Ind. Oeste, 30820 Alcantarilla (Murcia), o bien por E-mail a protecciondedatos@odins.es, con el fin de ejercer sus derechos de acceso, rectificación, supresión (derecho al olvido), limitación de tratamiento, portabilidad de los datos, oposición, y a no ser objeto de decisiones automatizadas, indicando como Asunto: ·Derechos Ley Protección de Datos·, y adjuntando fotocopia de su D.N.I. --------------37C9F06C4C3A2DBC6BC07943 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear Toumas, Mohit,

We have been discussing EAP NOOB draft we would like to ask some questions about it. It is a very interesting approach related to IoT.  

In EAP-NOOB as first step the EAP authenticator starts the authenction (e.g. the AP), eap-noob happens but it seems there will be a EAP failure , is this correct?
Assuming it is, if you send an EAP failure, will the EAP method still continue? How would this work? Since we are waiting, we assume, from an EAP success, or an alternative way of confirmation that the authentication has been completed.

It seems that the user gets something from the IoT device this something is due to the ECDH, right?

Regarding the discovery of the EAP authenticator. The AP should announce what are the available domains to where it is connected ( a solution based on the AAA infraestructure ?) Could this information be provided to the AP using IEEE 802.11u?

Related to this, what would be the realm provided by the EAP peer to the authenticator?

Another question would be which are the main radio technologies where EAP NOOB is expected to be used. Are you planning to support 802.15.4, WIFI, etc? In this line, do you have any EAP-NOOB implementation in Contiki?



Thank you in advance. 
Best Regards.
Dan and Rafa.

--
Firma Correo =================================================================

Dan Garcia Carrillo, Ph.D.
Doctorado Industrial (MINECO)
E-mail: dgarcia@odins.es
Odin Solutions, S.L.
Polígono Industrial Oeste
C/ Perú, 5, 3º, Oficina 12
30820 - Alcantarilla (Murcia) - Spain
Tlf.: +34 902 570 121
Web: www.odins.es
=================================================================

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Asimismo, y en cumplimiento de Ley Orgánica 3/2018 de protección de datos de carácter personal y garantía de los derechos digitales y del Reglamento Europeo RGPD 679/2016 le informamos que sus datos están siendo objeto de tratamiento por parte de ODIN SOLUTIONS, S.L. con N.I.F. B-73.845.893, con la finalidad del mantenimiento y gestión de relaciones comerciales y administrativas. La base jurídica del tratamiento es el cumplimiento de la legislación fiscal, mercantil y contable. No se prevén cesiones y/o transferencias internacionales de datos. Para ejercitar sus derechos puede dirigirse a ODIN SOLUTIONS, S.L., domiciliada en C/ Perú, 5, 3º, Oficina 12, Pol. Ind. Oeste, 30820 Alcantarilla (Murcia), o bien por E-mail a protecciondedatos@odins.es, con el fin de ejercer sus derechos de acceso, rectificación, supresión (derecho al olvido), limitación de tratamiento, portabilidad de los datos, oposición, y a no ser objeto de decisiones automatizadas, indicando como Asunto: ·Derechos Ley Protección de Datos·, y adjuntando fotocopia de su D.N.I.

--------------37C9F06C4C3A2DBC6BC07943-- From nobody Mon Jan 28 06:20:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2753D1228B7 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:20:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VD2ea-InuCzt for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB8E12426A for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 600BBBB for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:20:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Alan DeKok Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Message-Id: <889DB194-D5D8-4B24-87D0-214986C05B7B@deployingradius.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:20:45 -0500 To: emu@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:20:51 -0000 One question related to EAP-TLS is what do we do with other TLS-based = EAP methods? i.e. EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and EAP-FAST all define key derivations based on = the PRF in TLS 1.2. Since that's no longer available with TLS 1.3, = *all* of these methods will not work with TLS 1.3. The simplest way to fix this is to change the key derivation in = draft-mattsson-eap-tls13-03: Key_Material =3D TLS-Exporter("client EAP encryption KM", "", 128) IV =3D TLS-Exporter("client EAP encryption IV", "", 64) Session-Id =3D TLS-Exporter("client EAP encryption ID", "", 64) The second argument to the TLS-Exporter function is the "context". In = this case, an empty string. That could be changed to a one-byte value = containing the EAP type. This changes nothing (effectively) for = EAP-TLS. Plus, it allows natural extensions to the other TLS-based EAP = methods. They could just change that one byte, and enable TLS 1.3. Even if that isn't done, I think the proposal is the simplest way to = fix the other EAP methods. The EAP-TLS document could then just say = "other EAP methods based on TLS can change the byte to their EAP type". I think a minor change to the draft && one sentence is preferable to = writing a new document to define this change. Or, the charter already has a line item for: - Define session identifiers for fast re-authentication for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, and EAP-AKA=E2=80=99. The lack of this definition is a recently discovered bug in the original RFCs. I owe the WG a document for that. If the above change isn't accepted, = I can add some text on TLS 1.3 key derivation, too. The document could = then be a generic "fix keys in EAP methods" document. Alan DeKok. From nobody Mon Jan 28 06:58:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DAC512894E for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:58:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-4.553, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=gYb3jO3Q; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=WQZWFKDb Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aYW9JGQLrMKJ for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 06:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1507124408 for ; 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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:29:05 +0000 From: John Mattsson To: Alan DeKok , "emu@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods Thread-Index: AQHUtx40/HOhxWPR7kmkQLTUowzLRw== Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:29:05 +0000 Message-ID: <8FE7A547-632C-4776-8A9F-876331C3F553@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.15.0.190117 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=john.mattsson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [82.214.46.143] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB4169; 6:0R7DGiEyDaC5AtiW1EL2ZmYb/ZuCfv8V0yDqd2qcEdcMAx9WgUJnwKFDaDwC15rzrswDyk/wr1OsoVCegyitIw8yWXN+9pZwlJUMq1K16OoVIWpKuDKEBZ+S7cfGGUbaocjoiifgN/J1K6QQjqy4oEIoTfzNRNqyvzVhU5cmH91Wd0icnppEmbgNplR12RmhOH9YqLNrGPolVUMpBO72OMmFgWloCljZMDg3s1pPJnoS//eu2DoiKUwMLbQSkL1MktKvDgrU8GUSC2ohBpgnEIJpn6sqmecurIm6pS/O1e4nXJN3hYYok0kCGnzdLdIrgMQ5UOyQqPnq8JjFTEabj5YG8AWswpYNIKkSDYl/a1T+upjYMQagQ36Y6wly0wklYO/FJfet5YObkqKuCbxCBPEw9rZoKb2uDi6zfqwElD8XlMk3CMWxI2Krg97ZpAlXwBwK4bHBF3GB45/2KFfztw==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB4169; H:HE1PR07MB4169.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: oeKT5DKaCAWTqspqP+ued/w0xH1hUV1EypSVxDI7Y2dno6++YRgd06FXDWxFKy9AkXcIEzMHsu+x6AAwi4bGjPNta+PP0IZKwKgIUAY/x9mn1LafFA05DoIKhHTYEnQ2lpOe+Qz42UHmpH5wziWVA55dJoxNrBdNkgDgCr1t9PafRBCmKU6L5L+n892Bcdmpej0ZgZw5/v9UzbX2uOq//pIFnW1OuR8FOTCSZP++Wuk3JlmPfvnTmgrrVUJmlq19Wj6UVsX9hjr/GTsQhtvpYVRzJ1J58gaOSmvh7RSQ8r1xnlqCAn/Tei/KG8IOK96rZKCXsuuujWQTaSXAfnZ1g3Blox8WghPB7aX66Qgr3ghuVSQsV2pTx8A56hvPCCCW8CKqDo9mkhyh4lq/wabruKahmmbCbwXDIeAYbCxA1YY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5096841838B5A4459A6CCC3C4D1CC0ED@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bc9c39c4-d68f-4bce-3b1b-08d6853556f8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jan 2019 15:29:05.6452 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4169 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SXUhTcRjG+Z+d445jJ44nN9/UEkeFafMLgyVR2ZVdlHUTJiubeVBxUznH dHaTmhLNhMVa6shM2VJWSzNJSbNmfptKJVlq4FdUFCIFivhBbucE3f3e53neF54/f1LCmIlA Misnn+VydHqVjwyvSW43qodDkrTRv+uDNKV/SqWa/mYXfhxLLOsrwxPt9jXsDJYiO5LO6rMK WC7q6CVZpnvAQeTdooyvKgaIYjQrNyFfEug4aDAPYSYkIxm6F0Hz6g2pMKwgqKweFx07BjOm WcIz4LRZAtMf7ksEx4JB95NNcWcegcniQJ7LPnQ01HYV+3jYnz4J9fZ5qYd3buu9E3clgh4D M7+eYQJHws1PTm8Gp/fBo+pNb4aij8Fra533JqKVsDr82JuX0AEwtViHCS1osHeNSwRWwI+F LcLDCjoK1htHcGH3ApSXVxFCJhRGupvE/G54X1eBPAWALpWCpe27j2CoYdlqFUOnYKrWKeqf EUx/CRI4HBYrzKKeDc/fVIscDM7Bj+JuJwGuqv0eZmgWGl3lSND3gLNyDjcjte2/PjZEbvMB aH4RJWAidC4ZhUQo3KmYk9q8r+IHQzWL+ANEOJGCZ3nekBEbG8lyWZd5PjcnMofNb0Xb/8Td th7fgdzfEnoQTSKVnKKUSVqG0BXwRYYeBKRE5U9ZJ09rGSpdV3SV5XJTuSt6lu9BQSSuCqA2 GD8tQ2fo8tlsls1juX8uRvoGFiMGcLle2SFPjt3xsmUtwnZiY7S/nRo8zJGuc4XLfZNhvtdr rQ8Zs9q3obEwLu1etrFk6FrELvdTZYJGH8OeDzEtrDgsGd1n43/KUrSp76b2dnCLExcVhrDg EjxtcN2haRq7/XZleXYpaMtwaGNs3L2pI3tbVXzLwdGqyI2vKpzP1MWESzhe9xfMEskAIwMA AA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:29:19 -0000 SGkgQWxhbg0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIHlvdSBhY2NpZGVudGx5IHRvb2sgdGhlIGtleSBkZXJpdmF0aW9u IGZyb20gZHJhZnQtbWF0dHNzb24tZWFwLXRsczEzLTAwLiBUaGUga2V5IGRlcml2YXRpb24gaW4g ZHJhZnQtbWF0dHNzb24tZWFwLXRsczEzLTAzIGlzOg0KDQogICBLZXlfTWF0ZXJpYWwgPSBUTFMt RXhwb3J0ZXIoIkVYUE9SVEVSX0VBUF9UTFNfS2V5X01hdGVyaWFsIiwgIiIsIDEyOCkNCiAgIElW ICAgICAgICAgICA9IFRMUy1FeHBvcnRlcigiRVhQT1JURVJfRUFQX1RMU19JViIsICIiLCA2NCkN CiAgIE1ldGhvZC1JZCAgICA9IFRMUy1FeHBvcnRlcigiRVhQT1JURVJfRUFQX1RMU19NZXRob2Qt SWQiLCAiIiwgNjQpDQogICBTZXNzaW9uLUlkICAgPSAweDBEIHx8IE1ldGhvZC1JZA0KDQpBY2Nv cmRpbmcgdG8gU2VjdGlvbiA2LjIgb2YgUkZDIDM3NDggdGhlIEVBUCBNZXRob2QgVHlwZSB2YWx1 ZXMgYXJlIGJldHdlZW4gMS00Mjk0OTY3Mjk1ICgyXjMyIC0gMSkgc28gd2hpbGUgdGhlIE1ldGhv ZCBUeXBlcyBvZiBjdXJyZW50IFRMUy1iYXNlZCBFQVAgbWV0aG9kcyBhcmUgYSBzaW5nbGUgYnl0 ZSwgZnV0dXJlIFRMUy1iYXNlZCBFQVAgbWV0aG9kcyBjb3VsZCB1c2UgMiBvciBtb3JlIGJ5dGVz Lg0KDQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvcmZjMzc0OCNwYWdlLTQxDQpodHRwczov L3d3dy5pYW5hLm9yZy9hc3NpZ25tZW50cy9lYXAtbnVtYmVycy9lYXAtbnVtYmVycy54aHRtbCNl YXAtbnVtYmVycy00DQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgeW91ciBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIG9mIGFkZGluZyB0aGUgRUFQ IE1ldGhvZCBUeXBlIGFzIGNvbnRleHRfdmFsdWUgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBhIGdvb2QgaWRlYS4gZHJh ZnQtbWF0dHNzb24tZWFwLXRsczEzIHNob3VsZCB0aGVuIGJlIGNoYW5nZWQgdG86DQoNCiAgIE1l dGhvZF9UeXBlICA9IDB4MEQNCiAgIEtleV9NYXRlcmlhbCA9IFRMUy1FeHBvcnRlcigiRVhQT1JU RVJfRUFQX1RMU19LZXlfTWF0ZXJpYWwiLCBNZXRob2RfVHlwZSwgMTI4KQ0KICAgSVYgICAgICAg ICAgID0gVExTLUV4cG9ydGVyKCJFWFBPUlRFUl9FQVBfVExTX0lWIiwgTWV0aG9kX1R5cGUsIDY0 KQ0KICAgTWV0aG9kLUlkICAgID0gVExTLUV4cG9ydGVyKCJFWFBPUlRFUl9FQVBfVExTX01ldGhv ZC1JZCIsIE1ldGhvZF9UeXBlLCA2NCkNCiAgIFNlc3Npb24tSWQgICA9IE1ldGhvZF9UeXBlIHx8 IE1ldGhvZC1JZA0KDQovSm9obg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Mon Jan 28 07:36:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D6A130DD6 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:36:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ILSsHmZdR0m for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7190E127598 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49FB2BB; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:36:27 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <692A7D26-EBF1-4DF9-8A4B-CC2840DB9062@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:36:25 -0500 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2A5477CB-6CBF-4A10-B1CE-B86DB035D5C1@deployingradius.com> References: <692A7D26-EBF1-4DF9-8A4B-CC2840DB9062@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Implementation report for EAP-TLS 1.3: OK, with nits X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 15:36:31 -0000 On Jan 28, 2019, at 9:58 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > Great news that you have done interoperability testing of EAP-TLS 1.3 = and that you have not found any major issues. >=20 > I think it is very good to inform implementors about the use of the = length values to ensure combability. I have added your suggested text to = the GitHub. Thanks. Another note is Section 2.3, which says: All other parameters such as MSK and EMSK are derived as specified in EAP-TLS [RFC5216], Section 2.3. =20 While I understand what is intended, that reference can be confusing. = To recap, the calculations referenced are: Key_Material =3D TLS-PRF-128(master_secret, "client EAP encryption", client.random || server.random) MSK =3D Key_Material(0,63) EMSK =3D Key_Material(64,127) Where TLS-PRF-128 depends on the master secret, client random and = server random. This seems to contradict the previous paragraph in this = draft, which says: By using the TLS exporter, EAP-TLS can use any TLS 1.3 implementation without having to extract the Master Secret, ClientHello.random, and ServerHello.random in a non-standard way. The issue here is not the derivation of MSK and ESK from Key_Material, = but the implication that the Key_Material for MSK and EMSK is = *different* than the Key_Material define in this draft. I suggest removing the sentence in this draft that references RFC = 5216, and replacing it with text that says: MSK =3D Key_Material(0,63) EMSK =3D Key_Material(64,127) It's not any more text, and it removes a potential confusion. Alan DeKok. From nobody Mon Jan 28 08:09:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC06130EB3 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:09:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vzmV5bv-wACN for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2941E130E97 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 24237BB; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:09:00 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <8FE7A547-632C-4776-8A9F-876331C3F553@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:08:58 -0500 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <235773CE-687F-4FC0-AFAE-7A59FAAA6ACC@deployingradius.com> References: <8FE7A547-632C-4776-8A9F-876331C3F553@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:09:04 -0000 On Jan 28, 2019, at 10:29 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > I think you accidently took the key derivation from = draft-mattsson-eap-tls13-00. Ah, yes. Every time I look for the draft, Google etc. seem to prefer = the -02 for some reason. I'll remember to avoid that. > According to Section 6.2 of RFC 3748 the EAP Method Type values are = between 1-4294967295 (2^32 - 1) so while the Method Types of current = TLS-based EAP methods are a single byte, future TLS-based EAP methods = could use 2 or more bytes. Sure. The question then becomes one of encoding. For types < 256, 1 = octet is enough. For others, it should be a 32-bit number in network = byte order. That allows for other EAP types to use similar derivations. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3748#page-41 > = https://www.iana.org/assignments/eap-numbers/eap-numbers.xhtml#eap-numbers= -4 >=20 > I think your suggestion of adding the EAP Method Type as context_value = seems like a good idea. draft-mattsson-eap-tls13 should then be changed = to: >=20 > Method_Type =3D 0x0D > Key_Material =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Key_Material", = Method_Type, 128) > IV =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_IV", Method_Type, = 64) > Method-Id =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Method-Id", = Method_Type, 64) > Session-Id =3D Method_Type || Method-Id Thanks. My only remaining nit here is that there should really be a = sentence alluding to other TLS-based EAP methods. So we don't have to = rev all of those documents, too. I'm not sure that this document is the = best place to do it, but it's only 1-2 sentences. And I think we're not = going to rev TTLS / PEAP / FAST in any reasonable time frame. Maybe: --- The inclusion of Method_Type in the above derivations is intended to = enable the use of TLS 1.3 in other TLS-based EAP methods. While we do = not explicitly update those methods here, TLS-based EAP methods SHOULD = use the above key derivation for TLS 1.3, changing only Method_Type. = Method_Types that are larger than 255 SHOULD use Method_Type as a 32-bit = number in network byte order. --- Without such text, there will be problems. People will want to use = TLS 1.3 with other EAP methods. And if there is no standards guidance, = the implementors *will* choose something, so that meet real-world = demand. Alan DeKok. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB4443; H:HE1PR07MB4169.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: G0z6AA4qhy5X29myynYuSyfHqI50PS5FkAplPZXFFLgnE7beJn2WP9fe/qYnALs3f0Cgrm3Wd43S7mkimiYkqFZW5n9H4eKBgdLpOxJIS4iFLd1HZI48sTLJ5KyGptFgUPJQ18f1VayVAhD5xKzUcTX/afNAZi/NakfJ6deGT4EfmlcDaiFVBqzeHZ6x2gBqbXDaZveDCdaVR5QGOJnA9JAK1DJSOhc/sfH6kOn8qs7uiUdQrvzxH3gGVlIRtPc87swuaMMHd77CSNhTfFxhedMasEOr/DltjtKlu1lpgVavicTebfLmRURkSZ7pjFGHkzpNg0RdxDzvB1OEngwSxW5YvlHz5X3SDnr2/3UA5Wbng5c6NxssYGLQ7J/l9f4rYCs77IDBHm7oSPc07sa8U9eF20+s1ZO0MPbBzRnRLXk= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7631E11CAF13704DA16C65A8DADC015A@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 63b97962-876a-4904-bb4f-08d6853ccf19 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jan 2019 16:22:33.7034 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4443 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sb0hTYRTGe++f7ToaXJfmwbRyZKHlpukHEUuNwoWk1qcYixx5mU7d5F6T zA+t5SwVQm2ak2Qpk+VKxFppyySHmmZZFhmKWf6jIgolUkSp3O6Kvv2e8zyH857DS+ESMxlM 5eqKGFanzpcKRITlZBcblbYvQxW94NoZb/xhFMYPdrQTyZiibKCMUNhsq1gmphQlZjP5ucUM Kz+YJcqZdLeQhTeoc51j9ZgBGahK5EcBHQdjKwasEokoCd2PwPr5t08sI1hu7Rf8Ez8vjuG8 sGHwYbrfGyPoahya3y8IeceMwZXLTpIXswgeLC4gzxgBHQ1NPQaBhwPoo9BsmxV6eAudCub5 KV9dAVOr5UKeZWB2WkkPE3Q4DFdf8rKYTgK76b43j+itsPLsDuZhnA6CyXkrxq9Eg63nJc5z IHyZ++XtDaTlsGYfIfjeU2AyXSf5TBiM9N7y5UPhtbUKeRYA2iiEa7UGIW9EwWJdnS90DGqX G4R8aGLjZovffEYk1I80CHjOA8fEE9+LQsAxNI7zDY9JaJtp9o6W0AzY202oGska/9uiEVEb HAEdLjlfVsDHvucCnsPAXDUjbPQewx+GLfPETUQ6UCDHcFyBZn+sjGFzz3CcXifTMUV30cZf 6XOuRXWj219T3IimkHSzOGZvhkpCqou5kgI3AgqXBojr3qWrJOJsdcl5htWfZs/mM5wbbaMI aZB4XeKvktAadRGTxzCFDPvXxSi/YAPCKx8mqRNaarTarKlodjivvMqqXSpXxjbt0rUaJ3ZY 9Hin7Mhbsq3EsDvkVUTiwODTF6lp4ZbDCZpYRekJizyzkErRHJDUu3ofQbffvdFpZXqXqMJp H3XtGVf61YgvOMbjxIfcoTWK0aWCq+ul29WJQ8nTb/SfKua0m6THv0sJLkcdE4mznPoP7n4b 3icDAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Implementation report for EAP-TLS 1.3: OK, with nits X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:22:40 -0000 SGkgQWxhbiwNCg0KVGhlIGludGVudGlvbiB3aXRoICJBbGwgb3RoZXIgcGFyYW1ldGVycyBzdWNo IGFzIE1TSyBhbmQgRU1TSyBhcmUgZGVyaXZlZCBhcyBzcGVjaWZpZWQgaW4gRUFQLVRMUyBbUkZD NTIxNl0sIFNlY3Rpb24gMi4zLiIgd2FzIHRvIG9ubHkgbWVudGlvbiBjaGFuZ2VzIGNvbXBhcmVk IHRvIFJGQyA1MjE2Lg0KDQpBdm9pZGluZyBwb3RlbnRpYWwgY29uZnVzaW9uIGlzIGEgdmVyeSBp bXBvcnRhbnQgZ29hbCB0byBhdm9pZCBpbmNvbXBhdGlibGUgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zLiBJIHRo aW5rIHdlIHNob3VsZCBtYWtlIGFueSBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uIG5lZWRlZCB0byBhdm9pZCB0aGF0 LiBZb3VyIG1haWwgb25seSBtZW50aW9ucyBNU0sgYW5kIEVNU0ssIGJ1dCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBz aXR1YXRpb24gYXJlIHNpbWlsYXIgd2l0aCBFbmMtUkVDVi1LZXksIEVuYy1TRU5ELUtleSwgUkVD Vi1JViwgYW5kIFNFTkQtSVYuDQoNClNob3VsZCBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBiZSBhZGRl ZCB0byBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWVtdS1lYXAtdGxzMTM/DQoNCiAgIE1TSyAgICAgICAgICA9IEtleV9N YXRlcmlhbCgwLCA2MykNCiAgIEVNU0sgICAgICAgICA9IEtleV9NYXRlcmlhbCg2NCwgMTI3KQ0K ICAgRW5jLVJFQ1YtS2V5ID0gTVNLKDAsIDMxKQ0KICAgRW5jLVNFTkQtS2V5ID0gTVNLKDMyLCA2 MykNCiAgIFJFQ1YtSVYgICAgICA9IElWKDAsIDMxKQ0KICAgU0VORC1JViAgICAgID0gSVYoMzIs IDYzKQ0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpKb2huDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jan 28 08:25:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C670131026 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:25:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4vdSnTYJSu-a for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32941131025 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D4FB2F4; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:25:30 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:25:28 -0500 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Implementation report for EAP-TLS 1.3: OK, with nits X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:25:32 -0000 On Jan 28, 2019, at 11:22 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > The intention with "All other parameters such as MSK and EMSK are = derived as specified in EAP-TLS [RFC5216], Section 2.3." was to only = mention changes compared to RFC 5216. Sure. The confusion is that when reading RFC 5216, it defines = Key_Material in the same block of text as MSK and EMSK. That raises the = possibility for confusion. > Avoiding potential confusion is a very important goal to avoid = incompatible implementations. I think we should make any clarification = needed to avoid that. Your mail only mentions MSK and EMSK, but I think = the situation are similar with Enc-RECV-Key, Enc-SEND-Key, RECV-IV, and = SEND-IV. >=20 > Should all of the following be added to draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13? I think so, yes. Maybe also: All other parameters such as MSK and EMSK are derived in the same manner = as with EAP-TLS [RFC5216], Section 2.3. The definitions are repeated = below for simplicity: Alan DeKok. 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Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:10:35 +0000 From: John Mattsson To: Alan DeKok , "emu@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods Thread-Index: AQHUtyxhxWOxXvGSYEOMEf1KqeVD2A== Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:10:35 +0000 Message-ID: <6DA031E2-FB48-4A1F-85FB-88A1394C22A2@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.15.0.190117 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=john.mattsson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [82.214.46.143] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB4156; 6:Dd8QjSzCg/5GgQzEC4Mzq7EIdK7hhB93lWE+XYXX/1xfLTg1kgUQ7LDd4FsJ7wmPIasaEVX/bnVdkMJDjpgCObMxRmXMKG2kvUcV4Ex8mBYOVGzBaXJwML9VxCkQst4gWbGXxiGTmDazzzZXJZJOIHy6yT1Kpuo4h3POuot7IMc20+jzF0AP2FAdevPRFsYMaDuU5Q4+I2UOQZY2Uhvk69LjMQiPboZG1sWFx9/lVEFCue5w9OlMZrsnMtkEVNxQI3xbnvehpEBIykcSrkpeee6ZhahkUh21CZ0ueUW3rVXjooGfiKbnOjrZJ7vSYcAxdhVvtpKgmjF4O1dzokRcchBGAF3V1mo660IRMFLcy3pxi5OO3P0I1kIpTDuaTb6d9+h4QIO0r3XnW6nfhmKW6balJujjF/WvZZJJx7aYw+m7pww8AJG9mIxTxDjw7Ty2ZQjIaAFv80hCmQz+pQn36g==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB4156; H:HE1PR07MB4169.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: BdS9NCd2ByqfhZanJB8iXZIwH3DtHCC/5qcjPSQTeLVCPW1pNHJ7iTxsMcxUr0GoNImDdKuIPZ7oT3IwZbdvbddmScNSVdgal6IeG0WS64QFnB2hREFBi8Wt0EkF38TKXv3zRqTxIZMmJUGXAich71dAQMFBXUl6ox/sm+x2cgoVr0qzBnjTdq9KYNI2mziSPVz2acc6syQW+sW33UTl2nk+kFt+RhenoSWJexZqQE+eGjK1MXWv7MQCn34SwhArBtARGfT2MCh6Y1w/oS4r1a+EIC2V9Rvg+g0zmA6L1fi47cENFNIeNzTtZXxGkYYImd0VF/Be355/wDnOOT8YvYmuYVjbuSrMmfMFsCpahVjNMVUvQTYPiYPtQJWP9WAPrkJiXe1fAmcxfyFwE9atIx4+bVmjI7dowpB2UNu+rNY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 52101a4e-e9f5-4032-e263-08d685438484 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jan 2019 17:10:35.0497 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4156 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprAKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7lW6PuX+MwZpnNhZNn5vYLY6tX8vi wOTRcrSFxWPJkp9MAUxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBlvFnoXHOKpeLK5toFxBk8XIyeHhICJxKa7 cxi7GLk4hASOMEp8nTYZyvnGKNH/r58VwlnCJHF80ySwDIvABGaJx+0TWSAyk5gkJnxeC1X2 iFHi3Yu5bCCT2QQMJObuaQCzRQQ8JRYuecQOYgsDxY9cmcYMETeUuPNmMxOErSex9MQ6sBoW AVWJT5ch4rwC9hIL3y1jBLEZBcQkvp9aAxZnFhCXuPVkPhPEFwISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmKL CuhL/F5+mgWiN1aitXU6K0SNosTpfSug6mUlLs3vBntNQqCJXeLI8n8sEAldiQ9Tp0IV+Uos btvHDmHfZJRoPxQMYWtJvF98mBHCzpY4ees+1AIZiVUnrjFDDN3CKrF5zhlwSAgJpEosX9sK 1SAnsar3IcsERt1ZSB6axcgBZGtKrN+lDxH2kLj/aD4rhK0oMaX7IfsscLgISpyc+YRlASPr KkbR4tTipNx0I2O91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzAdHJwy2/VHYyX3zgeYhTgYFTi4fXV9o8RYk0s K67MPcQowcGsJMI79bpfjBBvSmJlVWpRfnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4WJXHeP0KCMUIC6YklqdmpqQWp RTBZJg5OqQbGhMcdOulqroV+4hsCMgU4RcKEJO1eb1Bffb771NED0pv47lXfNhI9lTL7z80j Lblz0ne2rVz9SGbJ5mB2V342Zen9W/3Zbp2S2MAkm3OO22Xm/yDt0oj5LB+0L+590tsWp75G +kJy9PQjbZOFb8rcDXcQO3HP3oxxxU0H06c12tNm3zV9/8BDiaU4I9FQi7moOBEAKpyqiCMD AAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:10:41 -0000 PlN1cmUuICBUaGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gdGhlbiBiZWNvbWVzIG9uZSBvZiBlbmNvZGluZy4gIEZvciB0 eXBlcyA8IDI1NiwgMSBvY3RldCBpcyA+ZW5vdWdoLiAgRm9yIG90aGVycywgaXQgc2hvdWxkIGJl IGEgMzItYml0IG51bWJlciBpbiBuZXR3b3JrIGJ5dGUgb3JkZXIuDQoNCk1heWJlIHdlIGNhbiBz dGF0ZSB0aGF0IGl0IGlzIHRoZSBFQVAgTWV0aG9kIFR5cGUgdmFsdWUgaW4gbmV0d29yayBieXRl IG9yZGVyIHdpdGggYW55IGxlYWRpbmcgYnl0ZXMgb2YgdmFsdWUgemVybyByZW1vdmVkPyBUaGVu IDEzIGlzIGVuY29kZWQgYXMgIjBEIiwgMjU2IGlzIGVuY29kZWQgYXMgIjAxMDAiLCBhbmQgNDI5 NDk2NzI5NSBpcyBlbmNvZGVkIGFzICJGRkZGRkZGRiIuDQoNCj5UaGFua3MuICBNeSBvbmx5IHJl bWFpbmluZyBuaXQgaGVyZSBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIHNob3VsZCByZWFsbHkgYmUgYSBzZW50ZW5j ZSA+YWxsdWRpbmcgdG8gb3RoZXIgVExTLWJhc2VkIEVBUCBtZXRob2RzLiAgU28gd2UgZG9uJ3Qg aGF2ZSB0byByZXYgYWxsIG9mIHRob3NlID5kb2N1bWVudHMsIHRvby4gIEknbSBub3Qgc3VyZSB0 aGF0IHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgaXMgdGhlIGJlc3QgcGxhY2UgdG8gZG8gaXQsIGJ1dCBpdCdzID5v bmx5IDEtMiBzZW50ZW5jZXMuDQoNClRoYXQgaXMgZG9hYmxlIGJ1dCBtYXliZSBub3QgY29tcGxl dGVseSB0cml2aWFsIGFzOg0KDQotIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtZW11LWVhcC10bHMxMyBzaG91bGQgdGhl biBwcm9iYWJseSBmb3JtYWxseSB1cGRhdGUgdGhlIFJGQ3MgZm9yIHRoZSBvdGhlciBtZXRob2Rz LCBlLmcuIEVBUC1UVExTIChSRkMgNTI4MSkuDQoNCi0gSSBhc3N1bWUgdGhlIG90aGVyIG1ldGhv ZHMgc2hvdWxkIHVzZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBsYWJlbHMgKGUuZy4gIkVYUE9SVEVSX0VBUF9UTFNfS2V5 X01hdGVyaWFsIikgYXMgRUFQLVRMUw0KDQotIEVBUC1GQVNUIChSRkMgNDg1MSkgZGVyaXZlcyBh IDExMiBieXRlIGxvbmcga2V5X2Jsb2NrIGFuZCBURUFQIChSRkMgNzE3MCkgZGVyaXZlcyBhbiA0 MCBieXRlIGxvbmcgc2Vzc2lvbl9rZXlfc2VlZCBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIHRoZSAxMjggYnl0ZSBsb25n IGtleV9tYXRlcmlhbCBpbiBFQVAtVExTLg0KDQotIFBBRVAgaXMgd2lkZWx5IGRlcGxveWVkIGJ1 dCBub3QgYW4gUkZDDQoNCi9Kb2huDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Mon Jan 28 09:24:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7465B1310A6 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:24:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CnLG64UZONcY for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8E21310A2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBC552F4; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:24:21 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <6DA031E2-FB48-4A1F-85FB-88A1394C22A2@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:24:20 -0500 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <73C5F487-8AEB-412D-89F8-DE9FDE4D3C5C@deployingradius.com> References: <6DA031E2-FB48-4A1F-85FB-88A1394C22A2@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:24:25 -0000 On Jan 28, 2019, at 12:10 PM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 >> Sure. The question then becomes one of encoding. For types < 256, 1 = octet is >enough. For others, it should be a 32-bit number in network = byte order. >=20 > Maybe we can state that it is the EAP Method Type value in network = byte order with any leading bytes of value zero removed? Then 13 is = encoded as "0D", 256 is encoded as "0100", and 4294967295 is encoded as = "FFFFFFFF". Hmm... I think 8/32-bit numbers would be simpler. >> Thanks. My only remaining nit here is that there should really be a = sentence >alluding to other TLS-based EAP methods. So we don't have to = rev all of those >documents, too. I'm not sure that this document is = the best place to do it, but it's >only 1-2 sentences. >=20 > That is doable but maybe not completely trivial as: >=20 > - draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 should then probably formally update the = RFCs for the other methods, e.g. EAP-TTLS (RFC 5281). Maybe... that's up to the ADs, > - I assume the other methods should use the same labels (e.g. = "EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Key_Material") as EAP-TLS Yes. > - EAP-FAST (RFC 4851) derives a 112 byte long key_block and TEAP (RFC = 7170) derives an 40 byte long session_key_seed instead of the 128 byte = long key_material in EAP-TLS. Truncating 128 bytes to 112 or 40 bytes would be fine. The = goal is to have *something* that people can use. > - PAEP is widely deployed but not an RFC Some guidance would still be useful. My $0.02 is that the worst thing we could do is to publish EAP-TLS for = TLS 1.3, and to give no guidance for other TLS-based EAP methods. I = have a strong preference that *all* TLS-based EAP methods be capable of = working with TLS 1.3. Maybe this document isn't the place for these updates. But IMHO, any = updates to TTLS, FAST, etc. MUST be published simultaneously with this = spec. Otherwise implementors will have no guidelines, and TTLS / FAST / = PEAP / TEAP will be broken for *years*. Alan DeKok. From nobody Mon Jan 28 09:36:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED251310BF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:36:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bfaXIOFPq1cR for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E4BB1310BE for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 09:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.111]) by resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id o5xtgrkXFaPJWoApQguWKT; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:36:12 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1548696972; bh=7uJonW16zMCtQZu0vGYJ64XzieQ6AAaKZFhgCCoQ10Y=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=GdPEcFqrtrOLLaz3qBxO8Abf3LIWrcqpAUtXyZnTYRyivadT/MUYdSA8COdlyIfWj aJ3haCr3IDGin8f+ISOF/gqwXEP9Y9gg9Q9JZrJcE5TDhzBOuWUZRKmbewnd2VXqpK mdETsyaiaCQFBBOdrX+3WBo6hKUV4ZHQphAZNJe12g8V8IlaKSL2YwpcRv6fTZqJrS aMlzfWpQaET7WQkx1fvXx9Zbj27TkzfPBxqg7OhsGWqJ8qHvKgGd7c/Rbvr2/nUCDL CeXHD1/DdquPxBsrmZp6W9g4N3Fji4+iMwUhTh8XaPeZBpoceE5Gg+eGaHpot79yyu 740rCTEwPMAzg== Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([73.47.77.230]) by resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id oApOgRFMwEfQFoApPg0eA0; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:36:12 +0000 X-Xfinity-VAAS: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrjedtgddutdejucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuvehomhgtrghsthdqtfgvshhipdfqfgfvpdfpqffurfetoffkrfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmhdthhdtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdffrghvihguuceurdcupfgvlhhsohhnfdcuoegurdgsrdhnvghlshhonhestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvtheqnecukfhppeejfedrgeejrdejjedrvdeftdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurddutddvngdpihhnvghtpeejfedrgeejrdejjedrvdeftddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegurdgsrdhnvghlshhonhestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopegrlhgrnhguseguvghplhhohihinhhgrhgrughiuhhsrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepjhhohhhnrdhmrghtthhsshhonhesvghrihgtshhsohhnrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepvghmuhesihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: "David B. Nelson" In-Reply-To: <73C5F487-8AEB-412D-89F8-DE9FDE4D3C5C@deployingradius.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:36:10 -0500 Cc: John Mattsson , "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6DA031E2-FB48-4A1F-85FB-88A1394C22A2@ericsson.com> <73C5F487-8AEB-412D-89F8-DE9FDE4D3C5C@deployingradius.com> To: Alan DeKok X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:36:15 -0000 > On Jan 28, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Alan DeKok = wrote: >=20 > Some guidance would still be useful. >=20 > My $0.02 is that the worst thing we could do is to publish EAP-TLS = for TLS 1.3, and to give no guidance for other TLS-based EAP methods. I = have a strong preference that *all* TLS-based EAP methods be capable of = working with TLS 1.3. >=20 > Maybe this document isn't the place for these updates. But IMHO, any = updates to TTLS, FAST, etc. MUST be published simultaneously with this = spec. Otherwise implementors will have no guidelines, and TTLS / FAST / = PEAP / TEAP will be broken for *years*. I=E2=80=99m retired now, so this is no longer my =E2=80=9Cprofessional=E2=80= =9D opinion, but I agree with Alan on this. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3066; H:HE1PR07MB4169.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: qMN1ashR/zCtS/umYlx2gojITZG+80fpzCUSpTdggni/hDxAAr1twytZQIF+yFKVnsFYwfhU2qtv7Z76kpnB3c8RdaX61/bJ+NTmaVzaG8/+lEYLoYAhmJ6xjsPqG6x/CZDtMCIu8oWYG4hngOq9G8UYyqRFuOu7+31cnYrRiz7dAO0ybPTjUG74oIuwBpSPtEzwDc8jaX/Fr+2yF0mpGURkm99w7G/36Xm3E52aqwD5aspb4Pm4oR4M4lk+qhVDSNSjqAnFXpcqjwzz5LRI64erhe5Q/pIxw4uif5CjIKk7w/QhKXmDWB1aUPE0bGv2yPC726bPp8TGIOOyEnaJshAlvphfSHvDO7hvd6lVzFyYJgkc86b0PQJn1Uh39b/a6GcGkB8u2c/S87yagi/iGRwEefyAhql6cfVcC3ir3xs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4F2707F36E3FCD48813E09CD3BFA9DF3@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: de732a78-a449-45a6-6a37-08d6854b0c05 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jan 2019 18:04:28.8405 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3066 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SbUhTURjHPbt323U1Oa6pD5aBs4QMt6khQmEGlvti9jFsUisvbk2n3DtF pcAsFRTEmGOpiSILwzLDJuqYkat8yTIRtDQjtBGaWSKkLl9q213Rt9//+T+vh0MRkip+OKUz GGnGoMmVCURkw/neklh5aoZa2VEFSUNdnWQKUlmtbt45lCk6kU3n6opoRpF8SaTtt1jIApeg eHrpjbAMvRZUI4oCfAxuD4VWIxElwS8QTPx0EZxYR9C93Uf+E/3jv/mcsPJgfrgLeQWJ6wh4 tHaTxzkmHgx/tSFOLHhqpoc9TiAlwEpodpQJvCzFkbA5WUl4eR9Og3rXnD+ugjl3pZBjOTzf NPk2JPFhaLsV7Q2L8UmwbPWTXkY4FDZePfS1J3AYzLpafAwYg9XxluA4BJY+7/K9HIIVsNU+ 5q/NgooKC5/LiYSxp/f9+REw2VLj2x9wuRDWvj0RcEYsrJrN/qR0uDPwDHE8g2DOSnEcA7u9 bSTHepj6NOIfcAA6RqYJrukkH9zul74jJZiG9s4KVIfkjf8d0ei5mcBHoMuu4MIqWGjeEXAc CfU188JG31sEw2iDi2xF/A4UwtIsm5cTnyCnGd0Vls03yA20sRt5vsegbSu2Dz1YPuVEmEKy veLW4xlqCV9TxJbkORFQhEwqNr87q5aIszUlpTSTf5EpzKVZJ9pPkbIw8bYkWC3BORojrafp Apr56/KowPAyFCYuj1gst91VpiodJvvUxOqZnUKr+/RH7XKB1HJN4dQz0qEUdmCPfXHWHO5Y qfp1KNM5GhQ1dtQW1+N+r4v4kPA4KFHcUxt/OXG8cuXHCFwwXQ24HpB+b/DGTLT8i6oJiaJq jNpayUGrfj1t214cvfE9KzkhKSg509hUahTKSFariYshGFbzB9CXKG4aAwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Implementation report for EAP-TLS 1.3: OK, with nits X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:04:35 -0000 SGkgQWxhbiwNCg0KPj4gU2hvdWxkIGFsbCBvZiB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGJlIGFkZGVkIHRvIGRy YWZ0LWlldGYtZW11LWVhcC10bHMxMz8NCj4+DQo+PiAgIE1TSyAgICAgICAgICA9IEtleV9NYXRl cmlhbCgwLCA2MykNCj4+ICAgRU1TSyAgICAgICAgID0gS2V5X01hdGVyaWFsKDY0LCAxMjcpDQo+ PiAgIEVuYy1SRUNWLUtleSA9IE1TSygwLCAzMSkNCj4+ICAgRW5jLVNFTkQtS2V5ID0gTVNLKDMy LCA2MykNCj4+ICAgUkVDVi1JViAgICAgID0gSVYoMCwgMzEpDQo+PiAgIFNFTkQtSVYgICAgICA9 IElWKDMyLCA2MykgDQoNCj4gSSB0aGluayBzbywgeWVzLg0KDQo+IE1heWJlIGFsc286DQoNCj4g QWxsIG90aGVyIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMgc3VjaCBhcyBNU0sgYW5kIEVNU0sgYXJlIGRlcml2ZWQgaW4g dGhlIHNhbWUgbWFubmVyIGFzIHdpdGggDQo+IEVBUC1UTFMgW1JGQzUyMTZdLCBTZWN0aW9uIDIu My4gIFRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBhcmUgcmVwZWF0ZWQgYmVsb3cgZm9yIHNpbXBsaWNpdHk6DQoN Ckdvb2QsIEkgbWFkZSBhIGNvbW1pdCB0byBHaXRIdWIgd2l0aCB0aGUgNiByZXBlYXRlZCBkZWZp bml0aW9ucyBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIHRoZSB0ZXh0IHlvdSBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgYWJvdmUuDQoNCi9Kb2hu DQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jan 28 10:46:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737BB1310B4 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:46:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mNP8WGsuUs1x for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 592D3130E93 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66E81613 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:46:03 +0000 (UTC) From: Alan DeKok Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 13:46:01 -0500 To: emu@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Session identifiers for fast re-authentication X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:46:07 -0000 The EMU charter says: - Define session identifiers for fast re-authentication for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, and EAP-AKA=E2=80=99. The lack of this definition is a recently discovered bug in the original RFCs. I have recently uploaded a document which addresses this point. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id/= From nobody Tue Jan 29 02:38:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C394D130F58 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:38:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.049, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id erI8yx7yqTy8 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb34.google.com (mail-yb1-xb34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A13F3130F7F for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb34.google.com with SMTP id n6so2565890ybg.8 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:38:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kMqAEQwKnxwwh/+qU+swiezVamHpZd2sxd5RNnZRJvA=; b=Qn6jE9R/ALJxhuoGNyxlOjk4ZrJkTivPklxRbPAJCXH8FdGP8OXSjcjOLpMjxEQmSb IYtTsfvGpONLs+fltoTX6Gxp7+uqo4oqjR8Jg+iwkT1aoo79KNp7u2kjHaRkbPXGsElq Y3WF3DZgRaTeYD/yLB8LsVRaTMdAGMwV1+CZg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kMqAEQwKnxwwh/+qU+swiezVamHpZd2sxd5RNnZRJvA=; b=L3GJ3Eiu8BEOFZRajBBxwgddJgEO1G3joD2h644T1g6AAEIkosxNLgzNsDqmI2fFyR 27iv+hTlOAHR72pC87jSSMx4kbruwPfpSsc6z/O1h124lw5F3kEM9pB/Zv8ARtajBpr5 +wGztN2p7A1zL6KvGE2Eyu2wJc3aSCPZ85lAj70WRKOPxEn1kPNnXveSVgJFKkG/kxtR P3Zrm/bmfHdbyY3dag3JXJtftw6ba7U1Abple+KXfcuTDwGYUa4SB/zniecLPYPnTwNJ NfhYYKJes3oErOTv00aDwRBHerbKbpUx9/Ph7PrWWyl8Qo3IySBccX7kHZNT5NBpAhDb wmKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukf6d56VXKAbrYBKpZESTxAmjDrnnzXGsAWr4fmm2Yt/ik1CtUWN f9hF0ZC/TU6EAQ0RZIVy2dz/ghoPuiE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6ACIzR+NwsUtG/RrLOVEcSDg33Oi8OIFOkaQnAc0+3B75KsNyvD0KRBZfxOAS2++E7UWEtoA== X-Received: by 2002:a25:8887:: with SMTP id d7mr23595815ybl.308.1548758321796; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:38:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [5.5.33.58] ([204.194.23.17]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f203sm18097836ywf.105.2019.01.29.02.38.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:38:40 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: <640D3530-F00D-4123-9D66-71773387FFAE@sn3rd.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:04:31 -0500 Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7CD498AA-C2B8-416A-971A-FFE14E193BB1@sn3rd.com> References: <1379F403-7BAA-432C-A455-F5F1E530D9DE@sn3rd.com> <640D3530-F00D-4123-9D66-71773387FFAE@sn3rd.com> To: Jari Arkko X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] minor Issues/PRs for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:38:51 -0000 These changes look good to me. spt > On Jan 24, 2019, at 20:28, Sean Turner wrote: >=20 > I will have time on an plane trip next week. Thanks for taking care = of these so quickly. >=20 > spt >=20 >> On Jan 18, 2019, at 04:20, Jari Arkko wrote: >>=20 >> Sean: I believe I have addressed all your comments. The new draft = includes changes; the git issues have some responses. >>=20 >> If you can, take a look at the new version! >>=20 >> Jari >>=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Jan 29 17:25:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96A21310B3 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:25:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fnrJz5R6Buh8 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:1829::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB24A1310BA for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 17:25:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D456600C0; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 03:25:30 +0200 (EET) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANjPe-luDOby; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 03:25:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:1829::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF4816600BC; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 03:25:27 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <7CD498AA-C2B8-416A-971A-FFE14E193BB1@sn3rd.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:25:24 +0900 Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <1379F403-7BAA-432C-A455-F5F1E530D9DE@sn3rd.com> <640D3530-F00D-4123-9D66-71773387FFAE@sn3rd.com> <7CD498AA-C2B8-416A-971A-FFE14E193BB1@sn3rd.com> To: Sean Turner X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] minor Issues/PRs for draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:25:34 -0000 Thanks! 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YXJpYXQNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQo+IEVtdSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gRW11QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZW11DQo= From nobody Wed Jan 30 02:36:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922491311D9 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:35:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=aalto.fi Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 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emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDB0128CB7; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:25:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9terlah3eQsU; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575921286D9; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.20.52] (ottawa.ca.networkradius.com [72.137.155.194]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FF602A0; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 15:25:11 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:25:09 -0500 Cc: "David B. Nelson" , "emu@ietf.org" , "emu-chairs@ietf.org" , "emu-ads@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 15:25:16 -0000 On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:13 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > I also strongly agree that all TLS-based EAP methods in use should be = capable of working with TLS 1.3. You make a very strong case that this = need to happen as soon as possible and that the most practical approach = is to add the information to draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13. Just like with = EAP-TLS, we must absolutely avoid a situation where different TTLS / = FAST / PEAP / TEAP implementations with TLS 1.3 cannot talk with each = other. >=20 > I am ok with adding this information to draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13, but = I would like to have a go ahead from the chairs/ADs before doing so. My = view is that this can be done in the current charter if text about "EAP = TLS" is interpreted as TLS-based EAP methods. I would recommend that = draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 then formally updates the other RFCs to make = sure as many people as possible looking to implement e.g. EAP-TTLS finds = the information on how to do the key derivation with TLS 1.3. That works for TTLS and PEAP. It doesn't work for FAST or TEAP. :( = Those methods have rather more complex key derivation requirements. =09 > Is information about key derivation the only thing that is needed? No, unfortunately. There are additional considerations with = application data && inner negotiation. > Should TTLS / FAST / PEAP / TEAP for instance use an TLS empty record = in the same way as EAP-TLS? Likely not. They should instead start the inner tunnel negotiation. Hmm... if the changes are too complex, it may be better to have a new = document. I have a first draft written, and will be publishing it soon. = It's only about 12 pages, but it goes through a lot of detail that is = likely not relevant for the EAP-TLS document. It still may be useful to give guidance in the EAP-TLS document. = e.g.: --- Type-Code =3D 0x0D Key_Material =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Key_Material", = Type-Code, 128) IV =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_IV", Type-Code, 64) Method-Id =3D TLS-Exporter("EXPORTER_EAP_TLS_Method-Id", Type-Code, = 64) Session-Id =3D Type-Code || Method-Id MSK =3D Key_Material(0, 63) EMSK =3D Key_Material(64, 127) Enc-RECV-Key =3D MSK(0, 31) Enc-SEND-Key =3D MSK(32, 63) RECV-IV =3D IV(0, 31) SEND-IV =3D IV(32, 63) Other TLS-base EAP methods can perform similar key derivations by = replacing the Type-Code with the value of their EAP type. The Type-Code = is defined to be 1 octet for values smaller than 256, otherwise it is a 32-bit number (four octets), in network byte order. Additional discussion of other EAP methods is outside of the scope of = this document. --- That way there's at least *some* guidance. Any additional discussion = (and there may be lots) could go into another document. Alan DeKok. From nobody Thu Jan 31 07:35:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596FB1286D9 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:35:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqgU9eKSFi4w for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1B1124408 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.20.52] (ottawa.ca.networkradius.com [72.137.155.194]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69D6D84A for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 15:35:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Alan DeKok Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 10:35:13 -0500 To: emu@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Question about draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-03 && application data X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 15:35:19 -0000 Section 2.1.1 says: As stated in [RFC5216], the TLS cipher suite shall not be used to protect application data. This applies also for early application data. When EAP-TLS is used with TLS 1.3, early application data SHALL NOT be used. I can't find any such statement in RFC 5216. So where does this = requirement come from? In contrast, RFC 8446 Section 2 says: ... Once the handshake is complete, the peers use the established keys to protect the application-layer traffic. Which makes sense. My question here is whether the draft needs to be updated to clearer. = Either that, or the text in the draft would seem to forbid other = TLS-based EAP methods from sending application data... Perhaps the draft means that the application data should not be = protected using the same traffic keys that protect the handshake, as = defined in [RFC8446] Section 7.3 Alan DeKok. 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Nelson" , "emu@ietf.org" , "emu-chairs@ietf.org" , "emu-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods Thread-Index: AQHUuYXTyUAgqyhSTk60fkYOt9m/Tw== Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:55:53 +0000 Message-ID: <5305107C-BF2C-4556-A213-DC7687F06A42@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.15.0.190117 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=john.mattsson@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [82.214.46.143] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB4186; 6:8kI/5ceGIyhKG3qwWdNkA+Yb/TVrvt//0Z2wu9BVDs/Hh2iaCZpeXuQkmNZoxXRqpKrrU2UDSI4dNXaynyWE8fQLQDl7ykwiuJenddIxVvol3vEgqZCrx5I9MEh7FwPDdJh9prkAk2hxlwaSFaWt+8mffIJpzSqX9n5LCkrGwAsIr1R5bL0VZRn4tYzxIvW6NZgkIFYNSt3a9fd9+vDb2yJJHsTiGAs27Fr5FHnzuBBmFJILw9Ii+uTjQDWkhi5YzuH6rDm+GL4SHLc7/1EiO5eEMG4HMhIvs9bVNcOeY6tyGLauBzfUwfgoIDCT1crXA5hTpfjiVCYbaXcoj88yplVtcRtD7bwWPL3Pm8xKYhBk/qU4gASaPcYBNafpGSvc81Q5IC5Pw+l8MKE/ULj5kn3DdHLi9hQQf20ZDeXlJkdCTghB1znMb4+DOhZsX5wPOqtKUzV5aIGvYgjtNol2kg==; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB4186; H:HE1PR07MB4169.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 9wolSIEFLZoicAH9CCixwnwdHUfDjbDB71MprCNTNT40r2U2hSKcr7TUTukbauhERJIeOGAJYaz/BKrzYfuvmEbhjo02R3hB2eLhZPObjfYM/TDjJFrXIFGe7+LiJ7ov0k94vbObqH8+IuF6YPdStIgDQZn4KVm6q78TbEp6bgLVYXsmC9GnyMQoR9zPWflv5kEwBXu5uw3/Xu6YDOL20QkEQPyFG5TxwjENupsihsDwnBQAOVW45qBYLzYt3HLJIn9kv5VjGjS+agndlp9Vw960Yu072npp9Hy9Mi4hmvePSDkvqDAaVQqr7i+aV9SQE2JNnuwBXU5DND7a5ZwX43K/NPieyeTJdZzK/gDnuTK7bycx+TqVYsdXFJWRwRpXP8AADo5e/cjQ3jzeYI5WJaL5AosYAdtPdA4iVvRGbu0= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8A649E6CD563C441B1AFC74F11387F93@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 98af8d5c-73d1-4c0d-05b5-08d6879cf65a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jan 2019 16:55:53.5895 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4186 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrKKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7te4cjeAYg1XbuS2aPjexWxyY3sRm cXPmfWaLqa27mS2OrV/L4sDqMfnxHEaPlqMtLB5LlvxkCmCO4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpY2HSP teAae8Xh8yuYGhj3sHcxcnBICJhIrJkX0sXIxSEkcIRRYubCZ+wQzjdGick9P5ngnO4ncxkh nCVMEg+b1rKBOCwCE5gl/hxcAZWZzCTR+fILkMMJ5DxilHg1UwfEZhMwkJi7p4ENxBYR0JJY sH4RC0gDs8BSRomXax6xgySEgYqOXJnGDFFkKHHnzWYmkAtFBPQktk2JAwmzCKhKfL5/EGw+ r4C9RNOJfWA2o4CYxPdTa5hAbGYBcYlbT+aD2RICAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/scKYosK6Ev8Xn6a BaI3VqK1dTorRI2ixOl9K6DqZSUuze9mhLCb2CVuna6HsH0l2to6we6XELjJKLF8wzKoZi2J Xw92QjVkS0z4uo8dwpaR6Hv7mRGiYTerxMfj31ghIZQqsXxtK+MERr1ZSA6fBfQzs4CmxPpd +hBhD4lZ+/tZIGxFiSndD9lngf0vKHFy5hOWBYysqxhFi1OLk3LTjYz1Uosyk4uL8/P08lJL NjECE8/BLb9VdzBefuN4iFGAg1GJh/emeHCMEGtiWXFl7iFGCQ5mJRHes6pAId6UxMqq1KL8 +KLSnNTiQ4zSHCxK4rx/hARjhATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYyRxscOXDws9u70D7nUtu19 QFMPFeZ3XPXqnPFGvret5dQ9U2NnllscnCI/JYuT9+kHLmZPCf71XFskR5fvu+bkKKHnL1ZZ NUbNmpAzKeC6bPyFJV8jLi0y/bBjeoajeum8zWuDtshz15e13FrzflnUxaPf5x6NqXVouKtw Qn9iRrqhdNrCjUosxRmJhlrMRcWJAOYM0L04AwAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 16:56:00 -0000 PiBBbGFuIERlS29rIDxhbGFuZEBkZXBsb3lpbmdyYWRpdXMuY29tPjsgd3JvdGU6DQo+DQo+IEht bS4uLiBpZiB0aGUgY2hhbmdlcyBhcmUgdG9vIGNvbXBsZXgsIGl0IG1heSBiZSBiZXR0ZXIgdG8g aGF2ZSBhIG5ldyBkb2N1bWVudC4gSSBoYXZlIGEgZmlyc3QgZHJhZnQgd3JpdHRlbiwgYW5kIHdp bGwgYmUgcHVibGlzaGluZyBpdCBzb29uLiAgSXQncyBvbmx5IGFib3V0IDEyIHBhZ2VzLCBidXQg aXQgZ29lcyB0aHJvdWdoIGEgbG90IG9mIGRldGFpbCB0aGF0IGlzIGxpa2VseSBub3QgcmVsZXZh bnQgZm9yIHRoZSBFQVAtVExTIGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KPg0KDQpNYWtlIHNlbnNlLCBsZXQncyBjb250 aW51ZSB0aGUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB3aGVuIHlvdSBoYXZlIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCB0aGUgbmV3IGRvY3Vt ZW50LiAxMiBwYWdlcyBvZiBkZXRhaWxzIHVucmVsYXRlZCB0byBFQVAtVExTIHNvdW5kcyBsaWtl IGEgbmV3IGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KDQo+IEl0IHN0aWxsIG1heSBiZSB1c2VmdWwgdG8gZ2l2ZSBndWlk YW5jZSBpbiB0aGUgRUFQLVRMUyBkb2N1bWVudC4gIGUuZy46DQoNCkFncmVlLiBJIGhhdmUgYWRk ZWQgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZXMgeW91IHN1Z2dlc3RlZCAoVHlwZS1Db2RlIGluIGNvbnRleHRfdmFsdWUs IHBhcmFncmFwaCBhYm91dCBvdGhlciBUTFMtYmFzZWQgRUFQIG1ldGhvZHMpIHRvIHRoZSBHaXRI dWIgdmVyc2lvbi4gDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCkpvaG4NCg0K From nobody Thu Jan 31 11:45:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 936A3130EA4; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:45:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YXhL6R3URGye; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:45:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809AD130E9F; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:45:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8A9D41D; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:45:08 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <5305107C-BF2C-4556-A213-DC7687F06A42@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:45:07 -0500 Cc: "David B. Nelson" , "emu@ietf.org" , "emu-chairs@ietf.org" , "emu-ads@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0DCAB7DC-6661-4EEA-9509-39455AB6C6BD@deployingradius.com> References: <5305107C-BF2C-4556-A213-DC7687F06A42@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS 1.3 and other EAP methods X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:45:14 -0000 On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:55 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 >> Alan DeKok ; wrote: >>=20 >> Hmm... if the changes are too complex, it may be better to have a new = document. I have a first draft written, and will be publishing it soon. = It's only about 12 pages, but it goes through a lot of detail that is = likely not relevant for the EAP-TLS document. >=20 > Make sense, let's continue the discussion when you have published the = new document. 12 pages of details unrelated to EAP-TLS sounds like a new = document. That's a conservative estimate. And a good chunk of that is TEAP and = FAST. PEAP / TTLS are relatively simple in comparison. Maybe 2 pages, = even with implementation notes on how TLS 1.3 is different from TLS 1.2. >> It still may be useful to give guidance in the EAP-TLS document. = e.g.: >=20 > Agree. I have added the updates you suggested (Type-Code in = context_value, paragraph about other TLS-based EAP methods) to the = GitHub version.=20 Thanks. That makes a huge difference. Alan DeKok. From nobody Thu Jan 31 11:52:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD8D130EB3 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:52:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sby6RUf5AEp9 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8564130EAB for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 11:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (198-84-237-221.cpe.teksavvy.com [198.84.237.221]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC7D984A; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:52:16 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.0 \(3445.100.39\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <2C292812-CCA6-477B-BE7F-DF7845715137@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:52:15 -0500 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6750C91C-E0A5-4FD2-B8A1-4B3944A1E4A6@deployingradius.com> References: <2C292812-CCA6-477B-BE7F-DF7845715137@ericsson.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.100.39) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Question about draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-03 && application data X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:52:19 -0000 On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:42 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > The mentioned requirement comes from Section 2.4 of RFC 5216, which = states that:=20 >=20 > "Since the ciphersuite negotiated within EAP-TLS applies only to the = EAP conversation, TLS ciphersuite negotiation MUST NOT be used to = negotiate the ciphersuites used to secure data." >=20 > However, I do not really understand why such a requirement would be = needed. I'm not even sure what that phrase means. Secure *what* data? The only data in question is the EAP conversation. Which is what the = cipher suite negotiation protects. > For instance, QUIC uses the TLS 1.3 handshake ciphersuite negotiation = to negotiate the algorithms used in QUIC. If this is a problem, we = should discuss if any updates are needed. I would expect that TLS negotiates cipher suites, and then uses those = suites to exchange application data. Which is what we need here for = other EAP types. And which is what I believe is what we already have. My $0.02 would be to figure out what that phrase in RFC 5216 means. I = suspect it *doesn't* mean that TLS 1.3 can be used to negotiate the = handshake, but then application data shouldn't be protected by TLS? That doesn't make sense... I'll also note that RC 5216 Section 2.4 mentions mandatory to = implement ciphers, and this draft doesn't. It might be worth adding = that, or adding a note referencing an appropriate section of RFC 8446. Alan DeKok.