From nobody Mon Jul 1 13:11:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90581200D6 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:11:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ew6RNwKkEKvC for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFDD81200CE for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id v24so14506760ljg.13 for ; Mon, 01 Jul 2019 13:11:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LzeoOLmQaUZe5kuTDa6Dth4Bop1g3biwOn/RsH7UHEM=; b=Q+/SUa1YwwB7K6zBP/fqsbNSKKkLlRS64umR8kQqRFLtY2Z7acA+sl4OR6QPE51Mo/ 4di8WikCdfTaBfQPpO3/aMtK6dGZqjEALWXuR+rFYYlJhaHgOJ383IcLRmGVOn9OC+p1 rFjKvEmQ++FnRcSbi8E6iLs6S820nkif084ODD/5kx+GF2otmtjkVhrv32suLzxNSksg C1z87aSvScAWNtL9sOTxNmD3h422qRhS8G8POt4Io5Pde5d9/M1/k5OSDe9x7IfAO9DF +daSJjmAqZOwV1R9LfBkpa71uyD8SFVtUpRcPSnVtSXCg/QUbWaHeUKJ32U0Lrwum8W2 285g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LzeoOLmQaUZe5kuTDa6Dth4Bop1g3biwOn/RsH7UHEM=; b=a8PoGngIgg2ZltJvWQ2pMaM4QSAEDhXNqcyRVGNHx3brNot9qxR1y7OV6xJCYBw6ot blnw20g+GbCARMRNT/363vVDeywSypZtBGwtjXYrLtHhOVKacarVFuNLDCHnwiwOyOTy Mz+QWkzXZNWsWDuj9ebMAt4kBFuskfFA8Lj6ZaSyXP30uPdJRGOavhAggoZCusA8C13o 8OAhCW4sXsE338b94E3CbctND6CJpbuD7dSefwVamiaFA5DQwJoMPpPIWYrJtaXdQ7Z+ /LjQN5+3TRuHhD9HvYql+l5qDb3OJqzvzRVwdGWiFEFJKWgFNGqPkdUoOQvdG2SzTpnn 82sQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUTNaCImkqAYPPvdVnZuz8pUl5Lre0jILTqaY0ZGZ++5sYA7NkJ uQoLa6AjsauRWXkks5U575NHp33QHqwzi8XF1IZIB2TD X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw4Y+//LCqkTBGB77gJPN79oHA3maHcSJ0mhBrO3hRsp9CUvlN7zlzsQBFVcV/K7SqF51LmjFcajPJWMcfRK7c= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5b94:: with SMTP id m20mr14930270lje.7.1562011870517; Mon, 01 Jul 2019 13:11:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jouni Malinen Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 23:10:59 +0300 Message-ID: To: emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad6052058ca43afa" Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 20:11:15 -0000 --000000000000ad6052058ca43afa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I've filed number of errata entries against RFC 7170. The email responses from rfc-editor seem to be cc'ed to this mailing list, but I don't receive them from the list or see them in the list archive. Anyway, if there are anyone here who would be interested in getting these reports reviewed and the issues addressed, that would be most helpful. Some of these items are significant technical issues that prevent me from implemented the protocol and would also make me question how any implementation of TEAP would actually be able to comply with the RFC I can figure out the most likely answers to some of the entries, but there is no straightforward way of resolving the issues related to (1) Crypto-Binding TLV format for the cases where the negotiated TLS cipher suite uses SHA256 (or SHA384, for that matter) instead of SHA-1 (and I'd hope all deployments of TEAP would be recent enough to avoid use of SHA-1..): https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5768 (2) S-IMCK[j] derivation when inner EAP methods in the sequence derive both MSK and EMSK (or even more complicated, if there are multiple inner EAP authentication methods that have difference in whether they derive MSK or EMSK): https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5770 I'd hope to avoid having to guess or make my own specification of how this is supposed to work before being able to implement this (and then have to re-implement everything if others disagree with that interpretation/guess on the design), so any feedback on these items would be very welcome so that there would be a general agreement on how the protocol is supposed to work to provide better chances for getting interoperable implementations. - Jouni --000000000000ad6052058ca43afa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've filed number of errata entries against RFC 7170. = The email responses from rfc-editor seem to be cc'ed to this mailing li= st, but I don't receive them from the list or see them in the list arch= ive. Anyway, if there are anyone here who would be interested in getting th= ese reports reviewed and the issues addressed, that would be most helpful.<= div>
Some of these items are significant technical issues tha= t prevent me from implemented the protocol and would also make me question = how any implementation of TEAP would actually be able to comply with the RF= C I can figure out the most likely answers to some of the entries, but ther= e is no straightforward way of resolving the issues related to
(1) Crypto-Binding TLV format for the cases where the negotiat= ed TLS cipher suite uses SHA256 (or SHA384, for that matter) instead of SHA= -1 (and I'd hope all deployments of TEAP would be recent enough to avoi= d use of SHA-1..):

(2) S-IMCK[j] derivation when inner EAP methods in the sequence der= ive both MSK and EMSK (or even more complicated, if there are multiple inne= r EAP authentication methods that have difference in whether they derive MS= K or EMSK):

I&#= 39;d hope to avoid having to guess or make my own specification of how this= is supposed to work before being able to implement this (and then have to = re-implement everything if others disagree with that interpretation/guess o= n the design), so any feedback on these items would be very welcome so that= there would be a general agreement on how the protocol is supposed to work= to provide better chances for getting interoperable implementations.
=

- Jouni

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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156215372141.14696.10754510310500220326.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 04:35:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] The EMU WG has placed draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 11:35:22 -0000 The EMU WG has placed draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Mohit Sethi) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id/ Comment: This is a relatively straight-forward document that addresses an important charter item. There have been a couple of reviews from John and Mohit. Implementations have already been updated. Please let us know if you object to the adoption of this document as a working group item. We intend to move forward with this document rather quickly after adoption. Please provide reviews/feedback as early as possible. Joe and Mohit From nobody Wed Jul 3 04:38:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DD9120052; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:38:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3c_bxl6Grnk3; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com 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-0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-05.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:15:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : Improved Extensible Authentication Protocol Method for 3GPP Mobile Network Authentication and Key Agreement (EAP-AKA') Authors : Jari Arkko Vesa Lehtovirta Vesa Torvinen Pasi Eronen Filename : draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-05.txt Pages : 49 Date : 2019-07-08 Abstract: The 3GPP Mobile Network Authentication and Key Agreement (AKA) is the primary authentication mechanism for devices wishing to access mobile networks. RFC 4187 (EAP-AKA) made the use of this mechanism possible within the Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) framework. RFC 5448 (EAP-AKA') was an improved version of EAP-AKA. This memo replaces the specification of EAP-AKA'. EAP-AKA' was defined in RFC 5448 and updated EAP-AKA RFC 4187. As such this document obsoletes RFC 5448 and updates RFC 4187. EAP-AKA' differs from EAP-AKA by providing a key derivation function that binds the keys derived within the method to the name of the access network. The key derivation function has been defined in the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP). EAP-AKA' allows its use in EAP in an interoperable manner. EAP-AKA' is also an algorithm update, as it employs SHA-256 / HMAC-SHA-256 instead of SHA-1 / HMAC- SHA-1 as in EAP-AKA. This version of EAP-AKA' specification specifies the protocol behaviour for 5G deployments as well. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 11 10:23:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D56120198 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.603 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5TGKcnfMofIf for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 164B31200D8 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id 44so5087712qtg.11 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:23:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iTOrH+qJdedKW6DZgK0VVCDK1X1e/GsqFcFvmQQ9QBI=; b=U5sxf6NzovcJ2Y8tMe+DTQpCfzRBlJQkjsq/6SfjoEgXNYeSueHLc5lH7cZBmyGk9D lWBTIcAz/5pFucQCSqOe6zaZgBM/v2JQaICqz5xtV6H4K30kFatdlpLww8mrBW7MB4vp PHw+jhFx448VYzT+Ev5FNr3b+Jv5jCEYLBGyvucHb0JCYYw8e8EPj/1JT7Ld+BGtKcz8 rfEJEXXoN8RqctQds8iFTm9WYy3XIN2C/qEY9rfvk3lJ0/LanhCm5czcTDoxtbELQeG7 QWPbFEtx8sZ6HTgVa1Qv8FaEuzC69N1pBIeRj2I4Xiw78o3V3kSMu1CJgD3psfW8AUxP T8bw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iTOrH+qJdedKW6DZgK0VVCDK1X1e/GsqFcFvmQQ9QBI=; b=fFwCzt3xVJP8qiZEj5xamo3EsPPKusDxytDYGxqsncQHOM3am3bOqjKE0Gw8xtx6ff 3wG7LvklWdgYoV+7KogB4DoVjLfSe4o63/drfB/TL45ciQLg9TEIWYHSEKmJM+TnbN3B OxEGLqgws5u1wL1moxBDo0V7XC0Ib/LvrQ24em5zuOpUaObSn+L8woS1Fxo3IDNBSoX1 lIE6FIxA8Hf4S7NUVF9EBVACbEEQIOC37pcWfR8mw5P30NvmsXcCjtcDKMxMyXaNOj70 s6UkQyiYVEh5LfPAE4+z4T9ejVJkjhQSw/Rw4QuKdVtoJgYGiJKTbNI7rYLKj/mNbQ+n ExUg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXZMG4B8G5LoBHxS9kxnA8rTb32Yy/fLpbWSVA8tVv+YVzbFd6L Yj9L0PSJLNWCCqi2AcZH0Dj8r8NyJPa/pGagsGA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxj4iDUpFpNHKfUtctykXGFJzxWd6AqzTIWWZHUTic/zdTOVDuQ1CdY2u4ZFUxlGaQMnm+RB52RZ7Fh9orzGC8= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5547:: with SMTP id o7mr2686402qtr.297.1562865804077; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:23:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190628081614.9EEC9B80083@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20190628081614.9EEC9B80083@rfc-editor.org> From: Joseph Salowey Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:23:13 -0700 Message-ID: To: RFC Errata System Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , steve.hanna@infineon.com, Roman Danyliw , Benjamin Kaduk , Mohit Sethi M , j@w1.fi, emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000158343058d6b0d96" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7170 (5765) X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 17:23:27 -0000 --000000000000158343058d6b0d96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This report looks to be valid and straight forward. Any objections to verifying and accepting this errata report? On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 1:16 AM RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7170, > "Tunnel Extensible Authentication Protocol (TEAP) Version 1". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5765 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Jouni Malinen > > Section: 4.2.2 > > Original Text > ------------- > M > > Mandatory, set to one (1) > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > M > > 0 (Optional) > > > Notes > ----- > Authority-ID TLV is used only as an Outer TLV (in TEAP/Start) and Section > 4.3.1 mandates all Outer TLVs to be marked as optional ("Outer TLVs MUST be > marked as optional"). As such, Section 4.2.2 is incorrect in claiming the > Authority-ID TLV to use M=1. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC7170 (draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-10) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Tunnel Extensible Authentication Protocol (TEAP) > Version 1 > Publication Date : May 2014 > Author(s) : H. Zhou, N. Cam-Winget, J. Salowey, S. Hanna > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : EAP Method Update > Area : Security > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > --000000000000158343058d6b0d96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This report looks to be valid and s= traight forward.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Any objections to verifying and accepting this= errata report?=C2=A0

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 1:16 AM RFC Errata System <<= a href=3D"mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org">rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org&g= t; wrote:
The fo= llowing errata report has been submitted for RFC7170,
"Tunnel Extensible Authentication Protocol (TEAP) Version 1".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5765

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Jouni Malinen <j@w1.fi>

Section: 4.2.2

Original Text
-------------
=C2=A0 =C2=A0M

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mandatory, set to one (1)


Corrected Text
--------------
=C2=A0 =C2=A0M

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 (Optional)


Notes
-----
Authority-ID TLV is used only as an Outer TLV (in TEAP/Start) and Section 4= .3.1 mandates all Outer TLVs to be marked as optional ("Outer TLVs MUS= T be marked as optional"). As such, Section 4.2.2 is incorrect in clai= ming the Authority-ID TLV to use M=3D1.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, ple= ase
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party=C2=A0
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.

--------------------------------------
RFC7170 (draft-ietf-emu-eap-tunnel-method-10)
--------------------------------------
Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Tunnel Extens= ible Authentication Protocol (TEAP) Version 1
Publication Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : May 2014
Author(s)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: H. Zhou, N. Cam-Winget,= J. Salowey, S. Hanna
Category=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : EAP Method Update<= br> Area=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Security
Stream=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : IETF
Verifying Party=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: IESG
--000000000000158343058d6b0d96-- From nobody Fri Jul 12 14:08:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069C512030D for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KlFG1Jd64sDG for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com (mail.w1.fi [212.71.239.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB2BB1202E0 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 14:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by li674-96.members.linode.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6702911B4E; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:08:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at w1.fi Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.w1.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H5KecovlH1Rv; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by jm (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 13 Jul 2019 00:08:19 +0300 Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 00:08:19 +0300 From: Jouni Malinen To: Joseph Salowey Cc: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:08:31 -0000 On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 09:16:19PM -0700, Joseph Salowey wrote: > The Working Group last call has completed with no comments for > draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05. I would like to confirm that some working > group members have reviewed the draft. If you have reviewed the draft > please respond to this thread. While the current design may work in theory, the use of an "empty TLS record" looks problematic from implementation and deployment view point. That terms itself is quite a bit confusing term since this is not really talking about an empty TLS record in the EAP-TLS message, but about a zero length TLSPlaintext structure that gets encrypted into a _non_-zero length TLSCiphertext structure that gets encoded in the TLS record that goes over EAP-TLS (and that is not empty since all ciphers add something to the payload length in practice). The main problem here is that at least OpenSSL is not willing to send such an empty TLSPlaintext structure. SSL_write() has following to say about this: https://www.openssl.org/docs/man1.1.1/man3/SSL_write.html "You should not call SSL_write() with num=0, it will return an error. SSL_write_ex() can be called with num=0, but will not send application data to the peer." In other words, there does not seem to be any convenient way of implementing this with the current version of one of the most commonly used TLS libraries. I can make this work by sending out a one-octet (0x00) TLSPlaintext as a workaround, but it does not look like I could make the implementation comply with the draft without changing the TLS library which is close to a complete showstopper for quick deployment. It would seem to make sense to me to allow the EAP-TLS 1.3 server to send out either an empty plaintext or a one octet plaintext to avoid this issue in a straightforward manner. This is referring to the following areas in the draft (-05): 2.1.1. In the case where EAP-TLS with mutual authentication is successful, the conversation will appear as shown in Figure 1. The EAP server commits to not send any more handshake messages by sending an empty TLS record, see Section 2.5. (that confusing use of "empty TLS record" and "TLS empty record" in the message exchange figures) 2.5. When an EAP server has sent its last handshake message (Finished or a Post-Handshake), it commits to not sending any more handshake messages by appending an empty application data record (i.e. a TLS record with TLSPlaintext.type = application_data and TLSPlaintext.length = 0) to the last handshake record. After sending an empty application data record, the EAP server may only send an EAP-Success, an EAP-Failure, or an EAP-Request with a TLS Alert Message. (this is where that TLSPlaintext.length = 0 should also allow 1 to make this easier to implement and deploy) -- Jouni Malinen PGP id EFC895FA From nobody Fri Jul 12 23:59:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600001200BA for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 23:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tEVSdO2X3uTe for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 23:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BF02120077 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 23:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.3.79] (lstlambert-657-1-56-254.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.33.254]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 848111F39; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 06:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none header.from=deployingradius.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 08:59:04 +0200 Cc: Joseph Salowey , EMU WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> References: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> To: Jouni Malinen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 06:59:12 -0000 On Jul 12, 2019, at 11:08 PM, Jouni Malinen wrote: > In other words, there does not seem to be any convenient way of > implementing this with the current version of one of the most commonly > used TLS libraries. I can make this work by sending out a one-octet > (0x00) TLSPlaintext as a workaround, but it does not look like I could > make the implementation comply with the draft without changing the TLS > library which is close to a complete showstopper for quick deployment. I agree. > It would seem to make sense to me to allow the EAP-TLS 1.3 server to > send out either an empty plaintext or a one octet plaintext to avoid > this issue in a straightforward manner. We may also want to later perform additional signalling at that phase = of the authentication. As such, it may be good to say: * a one octet plaintext of 0x00 should be sent * on reception, any data received should be ignored * non-zero octets, or more than one octet MAY indicate future = extensions Alan DeKok. From nobody Sat Jul 13 07:21:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B7A120045 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id up6aLWmwm3yn for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 07:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com (mail.w1.fi [212.71.239.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A063A120026 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 07:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by li674-96.members.linode.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408D811B51; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 14:21:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at w1.fi Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.w1.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RmBlwLfo_Mtj; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 14:21:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by jm (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:21:27 +0300 Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:21:27 +0300 From: Jouni Malinen To: Alan DeKok Cc: Joseph Salowey , EMU WG Message-ID: <20190713142127.GA32230@w1.fi> References: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 14:21:37 -0000 On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 08:59:04AM +0200, Alan DeKok wrote: > On Jul 12, 2019, at 11:08 PM, Jouni Malinen wrote: > > It would seem to make sense to me to allow the EAP-TLS 1.3 server to > > send out either an empty plaintext or a one octet plaintext to avoid > > this issue in a straightforward manner. > > We may also want to later perform additional signalling at that phase of the authentication. As such, it may be good to say: > > * a one octet plaintext of 0x00 should be sent > * on reception, any data received should be ignored > * non-zero octets, or more than one octet MAY indicate future extensions I'm not sure how I'd feel about EAP-TLS extension that uses actual application data when we have EAP-TEAP available for cases that need additional data to be exchanged in the tunnel. Anyway, this combination of server sending one octet (0x00) and peer decrypting the application data but ignoring its length and contents is what I ended up implementing now. This seems to work fine for the case where NewSessionTicket message(s) are used. I did see some issues when OpenSSL 1.1.1 when disabling sending of session tickets, though. The current draft indicates that the empty Application Data payload would be send out in the same EAP packet with the server's Finished message, i.e., before the server having authenticated the peer. And this would be done without the peer having used TLS early data (which is explicitly disallowed in the draft). That combination did not work with my experiments since OpenSSL was rejecting the SSL_write() operation after the server having written own Finished message, but before having received the Finished message from the peer. The OpenSSL documentation seemed to imply that SSL_write_early_data() could be used by the server _if_ the client first sent early data.. At least in my tests, OpenSSL rejected that call without early data from the client. I may have missed some other part of the OpenSSL API where the server could have sent out the Application Data message to the unauthenticated peer (if someone knows how to do that, please do let me know), but regardless, this design of the EAP-TLS v1.3 server depending on a mechanism that need actual application data (even if empty or known one octet value) to be sent before having completed authentication of the TLS client feels like something that can result in implementation complexities with various TLS libraries. Forcing a new session ticket to be sent out is a way to work around this, but I'm not sure I'd call this ideal. -- Jouni Malinen PGP id EFC895FA From nobody Sat Jul 13 07:51:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDBB12023F for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 07:51:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oGbvCmMwh38h for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 07:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C288120234 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 07:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.3.79] (lstlambert-657-1-56-254.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.33.254]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5E8D1E8C; Sat, 13 Jul 2019 14:51:11 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none header.from=deployingradius.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <20190713142127.GA32230@w1.fi> Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 16:51:10 +0200 Cc: Joseph Salowey , EMU WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> <20190713142127.GA32230@w1.fi> To: Jouni Malinen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 14:51:25 -0000 On Jul 13, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Jouni Malinen wrote: > I'm not sure how I'd feel about EAP-TLS extension that uses actual > application data when we have EAP-TEAP available for cases that need > additional data to be exchanged in the tunnel. Sure. > Anyway, this combination > of server sending one octet (0x00) and peer decrypting the application > data but ignoring its length and contents is what I ended up > implementing now. This seems to work fine for the case where > NewSessionTicket message(s) are used. That makes sense. > I did see some issues when OpenSSL 1.1.1 when disabling sending of > session tickets, though. The current draft indicates that the empty > Application Data payload would be send out in the same EAP packet with > the server's Finished message, i.e., before the server having > authenticated the peer. And this would be done without the peer having > used TLS early data (which is explicitly disallowed in the draft). That > combination did not work with my experiments since OpenSSL was rejecting > the SSL_write() operation after the server having written own Finished > message, but before having received the Finished message from the peer. > The OpenSSL documentation seemed to imply that SSL_write_early_data() > could be used by the server _if_ the client first sent early data.. At > least in my tests, OpenSSL rejected that call without early data from > the client. Yes, that's what I've seen, too. > I may have missed some other part of the OpenSSL API where the server > could have sent out the Application Data message to the unauthenticated > peer (if someone knows how to do that, please do let me know), but > regardless, this design of the EAP-TLS v1.3 server depending on a > mechanism that need actual application data (even if empty or known one > octet value) to be sent before having completed authentication of the > TLS client feels like something that can result in implementation > complexities with various TLS libraries. Forcing a new session ticket to > be sent out is a way to work around this, but I'm not sure I'd call this > ideal. I think that's the only practical solution. Alan DeKok. From nobody Thu Jul 18 21:30:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C95051200D7 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:30:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lE_Bb_SEwnJh for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82e.google.com (mail-qt1-x82e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2E61120043 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82e.google.com with SMTP id 44so2081251qtg.11 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=I5PCmAgUT9OVPSHO0DJ7P2zz1kB+mjOnZuYusUSG+D4=; b=aHHlLkqnChPnosJpOuU59nXqTHjbSfgSH2nZ3a+ufS+roXrsnQy91tssvrgA4BKJMU 7r7THruyjdFbxV4W0elLmadnJBNiFXcEucNCTZV65NMduEbkQuNjNIaYOqLVLF0hF8UU veUGV/swNR+3BzYnCRRKmxZiXXLY6LD0+tKxXvL+t0xIAtkhjZyUN5TGgZ5azZyRRUxe Fr/AYbVM77SAARDRjJfzYk0ckt4ruI8gAMyOe+jzp47vGBHXE1YnRm15blP6FyO6zTxH rI/2aezthUa395EBWr3B3q4u3qS9NMGCBwovBBIfk/rkaPCd/JL3oBDEn+sy6FjhKu3f pZ3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=I5PCmAgUT9OVPSHO0DJ7P2zz1kB+mjOnZuYusUSG+D4=; b=fzOxu9BsEtwZmSPbV29qZfqzCCEXmlNauezPadU6JKqU0IObnbEa09n+O4b7F7EvQh DY+CWij9m6UVp0qJPnHlDX0a3rn5aM4G4uaQ05MDzeQMDRQm6JhnHWPfa6e4HVc7UX+C wU2CDTGISBnwu7AAAyKzFTyTnXIOc34iMf7PTz52r6VBhUD79nn7tVCBwoDZzgRtoViw dbzWk4TorJbfq/pSfgsJTO/wHYm5oxGmPIzp08RbyHZ/YnOK7v9kilV2WN5bpG/hsGZR F09a3lnhM/tQsG2w5T3VQABdIz3Lfo7vK6gb2PuqjuFhn4aj6WEE3O3RNcXvMansvWUF JavQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV12VcbSriLPGpbnpGpbP5kXsMJz9gS2IHhYqrZYrWAv52gYYSW bJElVQC8BoNIex7bnddmr5PnwqhCuxAvJ+9XbeYX7eRTtZ0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzOnNQPybzdxsbd6E8Mn4QL3ve5t2BMSS4CNks1LGCRtwoFYQOcauI7hbSj2pTJYYJWl+jkA03nQjJCzRsfB9Y= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:eec2:: with SMTP id h2mr35092252qvs.189.1563510646488; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:30:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Joseph Salowey Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 21:30:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000afeb81058e0130d9" Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] EMU Agenda and presentations X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 04:30:50 -0000 --000000000000afeb81058e0130d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The agenda for the EMU meeting at IETF 105 has been posted ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/agenda-105-emu). We have a pretty full schedule. The chairs have the following asks of presenters: 1. Slides for non-working group drafts should be sent to the chairs 48 hours before the meting and 24 hours in advance for working group drafts. 2. Every presentation should have a one-slide overview of the main points with links to additional reading resources. Presentations should be able to cover this slide in a few minutes. In cases where the WG runs short on time due to critical working group discussions, such slides provide enough information for interested readers to learn more. 3. Plan time for questions. This should typically be 25% or more of your allotted time. Thanks, Mohit and Joe --000000000000afeb81058e0130d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The agenda for the EMU meeting at IETF 105 has been posted= (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/a= genda-105-emu).=C2=A0 We have a pretty full schedule.=C2=A0 The chairs = have the following asks of presenters:

1. Slides fo= r non-working group drafts should be sent to the chairs 48 hours before the= meting and 24 hours in advance for working group drafts.=C2=A0=C2=A0
=

2.=C2=A0Every presentation should have a one-slide overview of the main poi= nts with links to additional reading resources. Presentations should be abl= e to cover this slide in a few minutes. In cases where the WG runs short on= time due to critical working group discussions, such slides provide enough= information for interested readers to learn more.=C2=A0
<= span style=3D"color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,"= ;Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji",&q= uot;Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol"">
3.=C2=A0Plan time for questions.= This should typically be 25% or more of your allotted time.

Thanks,

Mohit and Joe
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Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:50:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Joseph Salowey Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:50:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jouni Malinen Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000abc6af058e48b617" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:50:40 -0000 --000000000000abc6af058e48b617 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:11 PM Jouni Malinen wrote: > > > (1) Crypto-Binding TLV format for the cases where the negotiated TLS > cipher suite uses SHA256 (or SHA384, for that matter) instead of SHA-1 (and > I'd hope all deployments of TEAP would be recent enough to avoid use of > SHA-1..): > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5768 > > > [Joe] I'd like to hear if anyone has an implementation, and how they implemented on a cipher suite that is not SHA-1. My feeling is that it would be better to make the TLV length variable with the hash length. However, I do not see why truncating would work as well. > > - Jouni > > _______________________________________________ > Emu mailing list > Emu@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu > --000000000000abc6af058e48b617 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:11 PM Jouni = Malinen <jkmalinen@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
<snip>

(1) Crypto-Binding TLV form= at for the cases where the negotiated TLS cipher suite uses SHA256 (or SHA3= 84, for that matter) instead of SHA-1 (and I'd hope all deployments of = TEAP would be recent enough to avoid use of SHA-1..):


[Joe] I'd like to hear if anyone has an implementat= ion, and how they implemented on a cipher suite that is not SHA-1.=C2=A0 My= feeling is that it would be better to make the TLV length variable with th= e hash length.=C2=A0 However, I do not see why truncating would work as wel= l.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

- Jouni
_______________________________________________
Emu mailing list
Emu@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu
--000000000000abc6af058e48b617-- From nobody Mon Jul 22 12:12:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C75D12012A for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:12:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0z6obq9F6Qe6 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0892C12012E for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id a27so29363104qkk.5 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wqj5l5wVhHwLgdKsOWv1is51KYgSOQylMJ4OkPQMimY=; b=UHB9q5VCJYB5XnlLhw2g4pTxy1dfADWp2IrWGg1NyzKjaWyHXVI0/CHAVXhEDhFSfl 7+qkgce0njqcmrRWSXe2yVotiq4gvNqcS4KS+xL++gyzDPP4hFp9QzjZ5UkzQdqF/eVZ 8wPEQwedUGI8ZmblhkJsNqGM5WNnWKFR5dWwZcFP3B8TO65f0nPWK7skbYUkdlkNuxA5 Ac+zC1+Kk5H/FnNaFT7+IORwtRqQuG5vWJeWz9s2eXsmio/3hXrOSBBAk84vPELfbOHZ jU84JnqGkz0hqo3ZS9uxLKtpwEfaJx5C5oC1lhRIP59TqvyCBD4zbW4h2+wPKPX5Jk++ ZxQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wqj5l5wVhHwLgdKsOWv1is51KYgSOQylMJ4OkPQMimY=; b=Ped9JM9EUL8I9V3gQ+/Ylc3KD/c1dCexU7V4et+6FBFWVZxPC37Hllm/euFc7lhGq7 98n4HXTxAmnXSpD1DQijvfKhR21LwUZOKEhRFezu5QpAfMX54gmhjO0ULaMcTcJKP7N7 f9Ey7t+/KENFx4eIYuD3CANEYsOD0s49x4rDjiwxindxh8HDwE7cc1ih+9N7DdHTk4bL EJVvud8HhEDMhbDojjnbA3Q1Gpv5lZM50zTB5Ry2qgshtSLUxVJQGEOgG1uHv77N9gVI o0PZBt+NBqUnhf8n5N4kqs6kUYmsiCbAmpYBfMmSFQ5uze6yF7o/D2IpdV7VyvUYgpyr Cggw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWU9p6m9/5LjdJS4sMNxMBcZyzuiKDL6J1n2YTXeUS6zyXTPOZg ufJwxDlNSYpD1RXcSvPI+pFXoC8NDT3Dm5YMo1w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyJOIsSEic6Gz0RE/nHDeXHJms99BwxSVhr5ZZBZsjA7VwIuLvo3T4hi/2qtQLAK0RA62pus7IhZw+YAzon6d4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1292:: with SMTP id w18mr47835531qki.416.1563822746095; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:12:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Joseph Salowey Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:12:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jouni Malinen Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000045ed9b058e49dbe9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:12:29 -0000 --00000000000045ed9b058e49dbe9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:11 PM Jouni Malinen wrote: > > > (2) S-IMCK[j] derivation when inner EAP methods in the sequence derive > both MSK and EMSK (or even more complicated, if there are multiple inner > EAP authentication methods that have difference in whether they derive MSK > or EMSK): > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5770 > > [Joe] I'd like to hear from implementers on this one. I think the intent is that section 5.4 should say the S-IMCK is generated as specified as described in section 5.2. Section 5.2 does provide a mechanism to derive the S-IMCK at the end of the section. Each IMCK can be derived in one of 3 ways: - MSK - EMSK - 0s if the method is not key generating There is ambiguity on how to derive each IMSK in the case that both sides do not have the same capability to export the EMSK. I think the steps involving the compound MAC are meant to disambiguate this situation. Is the problem that the section does not explicitly say how to use the compound MAC sent to determine which IMCK derivation to use? > I'd hope to avoid having to guess or make my own specification of how this > is supposed to work before being able to implement this (and then have to > re-implement everything if others disagree with that interpretation/guess > on the design), so any feedback on these items would be very welcome so > that there would be a general agreement on how the protocol is supposed to > work to provide better chances for getting interoperable implementations. > > - Jouni > > _______________________________________________ > Emu mailing list > Emu@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu > --00000000000045ed9b058e49dbe9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:11 PM Jouni = Malinen <jkmalinen@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
<snip>

(2) S-IMCK[j] deriva= tion when inner EAP methods in the sequence derive both MSK and EMSK (or ev= en more complicated, if there are multiple inner EAP authentication methods= that have difference in whether they derive MSK or EMSK):


[Joe]=C2=A0 I'd like to hear from implementers on = this one.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I think the intent is that s= ection 5.4 should say the S-IMCK is generated as specified=C2=A0 as describ= ed in section 5.2.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Section 5.2 does pr= ovide a mechanism to derive the S-IMCK at the end of the section.=C2=A0 Eac= h IMCK can be derived in one of 3 ways:
- MSK
- EMSK
- 0s if the method is not key generating

T= here is ambiguity on how to derive each IMSK in the case that both sides do= not have the same capability to export the EMSK.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think the s= teps involving the compound MAC are meant to disambiguate this situation.= =C2=A0=C2=A0

Is the problem that the section does = not explicitly say how to use the compound MAC sent to determine which IMCK= derivation to use?=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0
I'd hope to avoid having to guess or make my own specificat= ion of how this is supposed to work before being able to implement this (an= d then have to re-implement everything if others disagree with that interpr= etation/guess on the design), so any feedback on these items would be very = welcome so that there would be a general agreement on how the protocol is s= upposed to work to provide better chances for getting interoperable impleme= ntations.

- Jouni

_______________________________________________
Emu mailing list
Emu@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu
--00000000000045ed9b058e49dbe9-- From nobody Mon Jul 22 12:47:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1745D12008C for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:47:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HCycu110IZux for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 293E4120123 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (24-52-251-6.cable.teksavvy.com [24.52.251.6]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 17FBF2002; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none header.from=deployingradius.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:47:02 -0400 Cc: Jouni Malinen , emu@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Joseph Salowey X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:47:09 -0000 On Jul 22, 2019, at 1:50 PM, Joseph Salowey wrote: > [Joe] I'd like to hear if anyone has an implementation, and how they = implemented on a cipher suite that is not SHA-1. TBH, I haven't seen an implementation. I suspect that the lack of implementations is why these questions are = only coming up now. > My feeling is that it would be better to make the TLV length variable = with the hash length. However, I do not see why truncating would work = as well.=20 My $0.02 is to allow a variable TLV length. I think it's OK to leave these as errata now. I'm not sure that any = existing EMU document would be appropriate for these changes. Alan DeKok. From nobody Tue Jul 23 01:46:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6AB1200E7 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 01:46:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VcxnkXfXWQtD for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 01:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com (mail.w1.fi [212.71.239.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 628E3120041 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 01:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by li674-96.members.linode.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A41A11B78; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:46:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at w1.fi Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.w1.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zh8oFLcS3z4m; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:46:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by jm (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:46:21 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:46:21 +0300 From: Jouni Malinen To: Joseph Salowey Cc: Jouni Malinen , emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190723084621.GA6611@w1.fi> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:46:30 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 01:50:26PM -0400, Joseph Salowey wrote: > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:11 PM Jouni Malinen wrote: > > (1) Crypto-Binding TLV format for the cases where the negotiated TLS > > cipher suite uses SHA256 (or SHA384, for that matter) instead of SHA-1 (and > > I'd hope all deployments of TEAP would be recent enough to avoid use of > > SHA-1..): > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5768 > > [Joe] I'd like to hear if anyone has an implementation, and how they > implemented on a cipher suite that is not SHA-1. My feeling is that it > would be better to make the TLV length variable with the hash length. > However, I do not see why truncating would work as well. For now, I ended up implementing this with truncation to 20 octets since it was a bit simpler to do. I have an implementation with support for SHA-1, SHA-256, and SHA-384; and not allowing MD5 at all to avoid questions about shorter than 20 octets and use of obsolete algorithms. That said, I think it would be better to make the Compound MAC fields to be of variable length (i.e., be based on the output length of the negotiated MAC algorithm) so that the full MAC value can be exchanged. This would mean the Crypto-Binding TLV length would need to be marked variable. I'm ready to change my implementation to do this as soon as there is some clear indication on that being the direction TEAP should go to. This is a straightforward change in the implementation, but I don't want to be moving back and forth on this before seeing some signs of consensus on the TEAP specification side. -- Jouni Malinen PGP id EFC895FA From nobody Tue Jul 23 02:01:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5AB12008D for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 02:01:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1xRE8FlmtoPj for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 02:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com (mail.w1.fi [212.71.239.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6E1B120041 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 02:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by li674-96.members.linode.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5291911B78; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:01:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at w1.fi Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.w1.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Wmh5Swvnv8n; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:01:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by jm (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:01:31 +0300 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:01:31 +0300 From: Jouni Malinen To: Joseph Salowey Cc: Jouni Malinen , emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190723090131.GB6611@w1.fi> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:01:45 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 03:12:15PM -0400, Joseph Salowey wrote: > On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 4:11 PM Jouni Malinen wrote: > > (2) S-IMCK[j] derivation when inner EAP methods in the sequence derive > > both MSK and EMSK (or even more complicated, if there are multiple inner > > EAP authentication methods that have difference in whether they derive MSK > > or EMSK): > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5770 > [Joe] I'd like to hear from implementers on this one. My current implementation derives two copies of S-IMCK[i] values (one based on MSK and the other one based on EMSK from the inner EAP method). Both of these are initialized to session_key_seed. If the inner EAP method derives EMSK, EMSK Compound MAC gets included in crypto-binding. MSK is assumed to be derived for all cases where EMSK is derived. If neither MSK nor EMSK is derived, the "MSK" S-IMCK[j] is derived based on the all-zeros-IMSK and that is then used to calculate the MSK Compound MAC field. This implementation does not support a sequence of more than one inner EAP authentication method that derives keys, so the more complicated mixes do not show up. Or well, in theory, there is support for EAP-TNC, so that could show these cases (e.g., with EAP-MSCHAPv2 deriving MSK and that followed by EAP-TNC not deriving any keys), but I have not tested that combination yet. I'm currently deriving the TEAP MSK and EMSK based on the MSK-based S-IMCK[j], but that would be trivial to change to use EMSK-based S-IMCK[j] (if available) for TEAP EMSK derivation. However, this part would need to be done based on whether both ends actually claimed to derive EMSK from the inner EAP method(s) (and with even more complex rules if only a subset of the inner EAP methods derive EMSK while another subset does not and those subsets are different at each end). > I think the intent is that section 5.4 should say the S-IMCK is generated > as specified as described in section 5.2. > > Section 5.2 does provide a mechanism to derive the S-IMCK at the end of the > section. Each IMCK can be derived in one of 3 ways: > - MSK > - EMSK > - 0s if the method is not key generating Well, yes, but this is not very helpful now that TEAP added two Compound MAC values into crypto-binding. There is clearly an assumption that different IMSK[j] values (and from that, two different S-IMSK[j] values) are derived if the inner EAP method derives both an MSK and EMSK, but the sections describing derivations and use of these keys do not take into account that need for two independent values. > There is ambiguity on how to derive each IMSK in the case that both sides > do not have the same capability to export the EMSK. I think the steps > involving the compound MAC are meant to disambiguate this situation. They were probably meant to do that, but they did not really. > Is the problem that the section does not explicitly say how to use the > compound MAC sent to determine which IMCK derivation to use? No, the problem is in one of the design (crypto-binding construction/validation) assuming there are two values (MSK-based and EMSK-based) while the IMSK[j]/IMCK[j] derivation part assuming only one value (EMSK-based, if available, otherwise MSK-based) is derived. Furthermore, the TEAP MSK/EMSK derivation rules assumes there is only one S-IMCK[j]. This would have all worked fine if the crypto-binding design from EAP-FAST had not been extended to cover the EMSK case, but I'd guess that addition was done based on some review, but that did not end up getting fully baked into the TEAP design to make it work. -- Jouni Malinen PGP id EFC895FA From nobody Tue Jul 23 08:09:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043681200E0 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:09:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9l5gP8WrUyUL for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [IPv6:2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:de77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C46CF1200B5 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (dhcp-939f.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.147.159]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84BB81F44B; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 657AB1BBF; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:10:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Alan DeKok cc: Joseph Salowey , emu@ietf.org In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Alan DeKok message dated "Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:47:02 -0400." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:10:04 -0400 Message-ID: <3383.1563894604@dooku.sandelman.ca> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] RFC 7170 (TEAP) errata X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:09:48 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan DeKok wrote: > TBH, I haven't seen an implementation. > I suspect that the lack of implementations is why these questions a= re > only coming up now. >> My feeling is that it would be better to make the TLV length variable >> with the hash length. However, I do not see why truncating would wo= rk >> as well. > My $0.02 is to allow a variable TLV length. > I think it's OK to leave these as errata now. I'm not sure that any > existing EMU document would be appropriate for these changes. Apparently there will soon be a mechanism deployed which will let people see the documents with the errata *applied* on the rfc-editor.org site, so it's a good idea to formally accept the errata, make a decision and then you can generate a diff. It seems like having the TLV length be variable is the right answer. (I don't have a TEAP implementation.... yet) =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEERK+9HEcJHTJ9UqTMlUzhVv38QpAFAl03I0sACgkQlUzhVv38 QpABZwgAktQRK2scT5trIan7w0CsffCPIav2SI1CqzWEo2ezi4+lfOl+wXg60fmN 8twl9z8mRDKNBzl3p6kmrO2rBiFIxVD6NGBoDqqykKeoEFNvf+i7qjQQaC0xEDF2 b3Z/jVaOj9D3c33LTMAB30Ipr9Hed0bXCVsUvi15tXaYFVUXOkLPaBvsCOpNheA0 yQjFGZ1mg3r70oJ8l+IJNqYlA6rWJ29RM2fyvz/UepdHMbnfiqTALrzynVf1qpmQ ix07nTuaK3XrKv3L2H3CbpeGAdYiSKj1WFrOjFZuEGu1k8iAGZWDDKvGSDO3DJjx 60Rm86dVaF308B3fSoI2JLYITZGqOQ== =soeg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jul 23 16:45:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D9A120991; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:45:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <156392554970.27798.13471030049967650722@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:45:49 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:45:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : EAP Session-Id Derivation Author : Alan DeKok Filename : draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2019-07-23 Abstract: EAP Session-Id derivation has not been defined for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, and EAP-AKA' when using the fast re-authentication exchange instead of full authentication. This document updates [RFC5247] to define those derivations for EAP-SIM, and EAP-AKA. Since [AKAP] defines the Session-ID for EAP-AKA', the definition for EAP-AKA' is not included here. [RFC5247] also does not define Session-Id derivation for PEAP. A definition is given here which follows the definition for other TLS-based EAP methods. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 24 11:08:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA1512028E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fE0haA0Px2aH for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.goatley.com (www.goatley.com [198.137.202.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A15E4120059 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trixy.bergandi.net (cpe-76-93-146-89.san.res.rr.com [76.93.146.89]) by wwwlocal.goatley.com (PMDF V6.8-0 #1001) with ESMTP id <0PV5006KCRPFZB@wwwlocal.goatley.com> for emu@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:08:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dhcp-9c4f.meeting.ietf.org ([31.133.156.79]) by trixy.bergandi.net (PMDF V6.7-x01 #1001) with ESMTPSA id <0PV500I4GRNYGM@trixy.bergandi.net> for emu@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-9c4f.meeting.ietf.org ([31.133.156.79] EXTERNAL) (EHLO dhcp-9c4f.meeting.ietf.org) with TLS/SSL by trixy.bergandi.net ([10.0.42.18]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:07:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:08:01 -0700 From: Dan Harkins In-reply-to: <156399061040.14546.10596105183426898565.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: emu@ietf.org Message-id: <3cb048bf-c87b-52c4-a959-56973461a998@lounge.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (recv=trixy.bergandi.net, send-ip=31.133.156.79) X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <156399061040.14546.10596105183426898565.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-PMAS-External-Auth: dhcp-9c4f.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.156.79] (EHLO dhcp-9c4f.meeting.ietf.org) References: <156399061040.14546.10596105183426898565.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [190718a] (trixy.bergandi.net) X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime-00.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 18:08:06 -0000  Some members of the EMU WG may be interested in this new draft.  Please take a look and send comments!   regards,   Dan. -------- Forwarded Message -------- A new version of I-D, draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Dan Harkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime Revision: 00 Title: Improved Extensible Authentication Protocol Using Only a Password Document date: 2019-07-24 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-harkins-eap-pwd-prime Abstract: Passwords are a popular form of credential for user authentication. EAP-pwd (RFC 5931) is a popular method of performing secure password authenticaiton. EAP-pwd requires a secret element in a finite cyclic group, unfortunately the technique it uses to derive this secret is open to timing and cache attacks. This improved version, EAP-pwd', uses a different technique to derive the secret element which is resistant to timing and cache attacks. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E23412060C for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:47:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6XNDwB6aLsoE for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com (mail-qt1-x82c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 370FB120285 for ; Wed, 24 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Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 20:47:46 -0000 --000000000000b75670058e736bdc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This is a call for adoption for draft-ms-emu-eaptlscert-03 as a EMU working group item. This draft has had support from the WG for the past 2 meeting. If you object to this call for adoption please respond by August 6, 2019. Thanks, Joe --000000000000b75670058e736bdc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a call for adoption for=C2=A0draft-ms-emu-eaptlsce= rt-03 as a EMU working group item.=C2=A0 This draft has had support from th= e WG for the past 2 meeting.=C2=A0 If you object to this call for adoption = please respond by August 6, 2019.=C2=A0

Thanks,

Joe
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IGFyZSBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBieSBhbm9ueW1vdXMgRlRQIGF0Og0KICAgIGZ0cDovL2Z0cC5p ZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvDQogICAgDQogICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICBFbXUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgRW11 QGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9lbXUN CiAgICANCg0K From nobody Thu Jul 25 06:31:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DF6120043 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:31:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ftCWMll6PTAs for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF4E012000F for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id r6so44823276qtt.0 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:31:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/w+swRCH7Seo9r64oBhYbpzmyyEbn2y7+nftMFaE51o=; b=lgoWzvNCRy/UAfAxJhrHnIBRQz/rhXoikc9z0I71m3LZYLcI4gtw9AJ7OtxhI+5Hv1 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X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzFhvrfP5dLeYgQjK8kb3ZOvnmMHVpCFUt7O+ZCWVgwSHh2bfyVOGtz+VsV3gH7LKEgRAVeanDPDsQeZLeRgBA= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5547:: with SMTP id o7mr29796940qtr.297.1564061492606; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:31:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20357.1553893062@dooku.sandelman.ca> <3A358E18-F3C3-40FF-BF87-DEB963549BE8@deployingradius.com> <8549.1553993591@dooku.sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: From: Joseph Salowey Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 09:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: Alan DeKok Cc: emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ac9f14058e817145" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] EAP-AKA' and Re: WG adoption call for draft-arkko-eap-aka-pfs X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 13:31:36 -0000 --000000000000ac9f14058e817145 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Based on the responses on this thread and in the IETF 105 EMU meeting we are going to accept this document as a working group item. Cheers, Joe On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 1:55 PM Alan DeKok wrote: > On Jun 27, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Joseph Salowey wrote: > > > > Significant time has passed and no alternate proposals have surfaced. > We need to decide whether to accept this document into the working group or > not. It seems that we have support for the view that working on this > informational document in the working group is preferable to the > independent submission track. > > Yes. > > > Do working group members still have objections to taking this draft into > the working group? Please respond on this thread by July 5, 2019. > > I have misgivings, but no objections. > > Alan DeKok. > > --000000000000ac9f14058e817145 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Based on the responses on this thread and in the IETF 105 = EMU meeting we are going to accept this document as a working group item.
Cheers,

Joe

On Thu, Jun 27,= 2019 at 1:55 PM Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> wrote:
On Jun 27, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Joseph Salowey <= ;joe@salowey.net&g= t; wrote:
>
> Significant time has passed and no alternate proposals have surfaced.= =C2=A0 We need to decide whether to accept this document into the working g= roup or not.=C2=A0 It seems that we have support for the view that working = on this informational document in the working group is preferable to the in= dependent submission track.=C2=A0

=C2=A0 Yes.

> Do working group members still have objections to taking this draft in= to the working group?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please respond on this thread by July 5, = 2019.

=C2=A0 I have misgivings, but no objections.

=C2=A0 Alan DeKok.

--000000000000ac9f14058e817145-- From nobody Thu Jul 25 06:35:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0BA1200EC; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:35:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <156406173441.12589.16106273693949641316@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:35:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-aka-pfs-00.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 13:35:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : Perfect-Forward Secrecy for the Extensible Authentication Protocol Method for Authentication and Key Agreement (EAP-AKA' PFS) Authors : Jari Arkko Karl Norrman Vesa Torvinen Filename : draft-ietf-emu-aka-pfs-00.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-07-25 Abstract: Many different attacks have been reported as part of revelations associated with pervasive surveillance. Some of the reported attacks involved compromising smart cards, such as attacking SIM card manufacturers and operators in an effort to compromise shared secrets stored on these cards. Since the publication of those reports, manufacturing and provisioning processes have gained much scrutiny and have improved. However, the danger of resourceful attackers for these systems is still a concern. This specification is an optional extension to the EAP-AKA' authentication method which was defined in RFC 5448 (to be superseded by draft-ietf-emu-rfc5448bis). The extension, when negotiated, provides Perfect Forward Secrecy for the session key generated as a part of the authentication run in EAP-AKA'. This prevents an attacker who has gained access to the long-term pre-shared secret in a SIM card from being able to decrypt all past communications. In addition, if the attacker stays merely a passive eavesdropper, the extension prevents attacks against future sessions. This forces attackers to use active attacks instead. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-aka-pfs/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-aka-pfs-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-aka-pfs-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 25 08:27:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C29120115 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:27:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9EPxq6wSlxm0 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC82A120071 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.20.171] (ottawa.ca.networkradius.com [72.137.155.194]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6197485A; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:26:44 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none header.from=deployingradius.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:26:42 -0400 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <156392554970.27798.13471030049967650722@ietfa.amsl.com> To: John Mattsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:27:19 -0000 On Jul 25, 2019, at 7:34 AM, John Mattsson = wrote: >=20 > Minor comments on the 01 version. Otherwise I think the document is = ready for WGLC. Thanks. > - I agree with Mohit that the title should be changed to something = like > "EAP Session-Id Derivation for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, and PEAP" Done. > - Abstracts in RFCs cannot have references. [RFC5247] and [AKAP] need = to be removed. The names still need to be there, I think. But they shouldn't be = references. > - The following sentences in the abstract and intro will have to = change > before publishing. >=20 > "EAP Session-Id derivation has not been defined for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, > and EAP-AKA' when using the fast re-authentication exchange instead > of full authentication." >=20 > I suggest to just remove EAP-AKA' (The document already talks about = RFC5448bis).=20 >=20 > "EAP Session-Id derivation has not been defined for EAP-SIM and = EAP-AKA, > when using the fast re-authentication exchange instead > of full authentication." Done. > - The sentence in the abstract about EAP-AKA' should be in the = document body as well. >=20 > "Since [AKAP] defines the Session-ID for EAP-AKA', the definition for > EAP-AKA' is not included here." Done with some minor word smithing. > - "TLS 1.2 or earlier is used" -> "TLS 1.2 is used" >=20 > The TLS wg document draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate (Submitted = to IESG > for Publication) formally prohibits negotiation and use of TLS = 1.0 > and TLS 1.1. It also updates all RFCs that use TLS. I suppose so. I do suspect, tho, that there are millions of end user = devices doing EAP which don't support TLS 1.2. > - "deriviation" -> "derivation" >=20 > - "EAP-SIM, and EAP-AKA" -> "EAP-SIM and EAP-AKA" Fixed, thanks. Alan DeKok. From nobody Sun Jul 28 12:58:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEEE6120094 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 12:58:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7VcAqgjD-W0g for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 12:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com (mail.w1.fi [212.71.239.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39525120041 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 12:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by li674-96.members.linode.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA3711BAC; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 19:57:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at w1.fi Received: from li674-96.members.linode.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.w1.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jKhq4QTvfPjh; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 19:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by jm (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 28 Jul 2019 22:57:50 +0300 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 22:57:50 +0300 From: Jouni Malinen To: John Mattsson Cc: Alan DeKok , Jim Schaad , EMU WG Message-ID: <20190728195750.GA5671@w1.fi> References: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> <20190713142127.GA32230@w1.fi> <56CF04D0-D093-43EF-A467-0163DA5F9160@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 19:58:03 -0000 On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:49:40AM +0000, John Mattsson wrote: > Question: How will the use of Application data with TLSPlaintext.fragment = 0x00 work with EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and TEAP when they start using TLS 1.3? I assume they will need to send the same 0x00 to commit to not sending any more handshake messages as well as using application data for other purposes. I do not know exactly how the TLSPlaintext fragments look like in EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and TEAP. The TLSPlaintext fragment for commit need to be chosen so that the string does not collide with any other strings used. I don't see why TTLS, PEAP, or TEAP would need to use this specific 0x00 indication for this since they end up using the tunnel for Phase 2 (or at least protected result indication if Phase 2 authentication is skipped) and that can be implicitly used for the same purpose. EAP-TLS needs this workaround because without it, the NewSessionTicket message changes in TLS 1.3 are quite inconvenient for EAP. With TTLS and PEAP, it would seem fine to send out the NewSessionTicket before concluding Phase 2. With TEAP, there is some more discussion about use of the NewSessionTicket option for provisioning the new PAC (which seem a bit inconvenient for some use cases IMHO, but nevertheless, I don't see this needing any additional mechanism for indicating when the NewSessionTicket is not going to be showing up). -- Jouni Malinen PGP id EFC895FA From nobody Sun Jul 28 14:09:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6133120048 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JQ1SJbxEBaqt for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E563120041 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.96.107.97) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:09:24 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Jouni Malinen' , 'John Mattsson' CC: 'Alan DeKok' , 'EMU WG' References: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> <20190713142127.GA32230@w1.fi> <56CF04D0-D093-43EF-A467-0163DA5F9160@ericsson.com> <20190728195750.GA5671@w1.fi> In-Reply-To: <20190728195750.GA5671@w1.fi> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:09:19 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01d54588$ba8031d0$2f809570$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQK6SvyImJcejRMPv63KsmzJIhiamAJPBWiZAxtZCOEA5TC3GAHZ+0otAOe8u38Bn99mEwGC171upLTafYA= X-Originating-IP: [73.96.107.97] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 21:09:32 -0000 I cannot speak to PEAP, but it would seem that TEAP might need this feature as, at least on resumption, it is totally optional for both sides to use any TLVs an thus the same issue might be present. TTLS seems to always require that the client send a AVP, but I am not sure that it is required for the server based on a really fast read. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Jouni Malinen Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 12:58 PM To: John Mattsson Cc: Alan DeKok ; Jim Schaad ; EMU WG Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:49:40AM +0000, John Mattsson wrote: > Question: How will the use of Application data with TLSPlaintext.fragment = 0x00 work with EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and TEAP when they start using TLS 1.3? I assume they will need to send the same 0x00 to commit to not sending any more handshake messages as well as using application data for other purposes. I do not know exactly how the TLSPlaintext fragments look like in EAP-TTLS, PEAP, and TEAP. The TLSPlaintext fragment for commit need to be chosen so that the string does not collide with any other strings used. I don't see why TTLS, PEAP, or TEAP would need to use this specific 0x00 indication for this since they end up using the tunnel for Phase 2 (or at least protected result indication if Phase 2 authentication is skipped) and that can be implicitly used for the same purpose. EAP-TLS needs this workaround because without it, the NewSessionTicket message changes in TLS 1.3 are quite inconvenient for EAP. With TTLS and PEAP, it would seem fine to send out the NewSessionTicket before concluding Phase 2. With TEAP, there is some more discussion about use of the NewSessionTicket option for provisioning the new PAC (which seem a bit inconvenient for some use cases IMHO, but nevertheless, I don't see this needing any additional mechanism for indicating when the NewSessionTicket is not going to be showing up). -- Jouni Malinen PGP id EFC895FA From nobody Sun Jul 28 15:51:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3476A120071 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:51:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FyFJEE8ze5TH for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CB22120041 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.46.58] (24-52-251-6.cable.teksavvy.com [24.52.251.6]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC7D45A3; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 22:51:19 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none header.from=deployingradius.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <000d01d54588$ba8031d0$2f809570$@augustcellars.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:51:17 -0400 Cc: Jouni Malinen , John Mattsson , EMU WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20190712210819.GA26853@w1.fi> <05B92C31-6CFB-4DFD-BCBD-EE5F3472D7B2@deployingradius.com> <20190713142127.GA32230@w1.fi> <56CF04D0-D093-43EF-A467-0163DA5F9160@ericsson.com> <20190728195750.GA5671@w1.fi> <000d01d54588$ba8031d0$2f809570$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] WGLC completed for for draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 22:51:24 -0000 On Jul 28, 2019, at 5:09 PM, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > I cannot speak to PEAP, but it would seem that TEAP might need this = feature > as, at least on resumption, it is totally optional for both sides to = use any > TLVs an thus the same issue might be present. TTLS seems to always = require > that the client send a AVP, but I am not sure that it is required for = the > server based on a really fast read. For initial authentication, TTLS requires TLVs inside of the TLS = tunnel. For resumption, the inner tunnel isn't used. So it looks like the other TLS-based EAP methods will have the same = issue, when resumption is used. Alan DeKok. From nobody Wed Jul 31 21:48:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A8312003E for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:48:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQHjB1J9SLUU for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x829.google.com (mail-qt1-x829.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::829]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC4EB120137 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x829.google.com with SMTP id k10so69002655qtq.1 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:48:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uw/F7pEOeRR0LuLtan5Kzbl4mZKk67vmJKAf9AWtg/M=; b=zHzDWkHhM28+ak7h7fKJAjT/SIgCIecHYW/CYEha0scXXEfg4Zs1IZvjxYUcu1C8mh YzvP7HVIMUWe//tlUlgsbpdhcEaPhOKiznTsdMD0l5OBAQdhfgS2ebGcsHC+9DIVhG6c iJx+RjMpWNjYGRSz0WV3qnJMnbHk1uKHMDHKx5SEonYKGK2lBl3Be9pf7Y1rVG/jZzaK +1XdJb1EW4RKxtWkT07Um6xc5xrzIKNbtn1hc5io734y3O9z35lkUeePP0s76HGphVCi 4p8Ju2cQfJbzKNREyTZLup8piAjp/OYn9YUlXwK/lUFqMc4nRY7hpP21SEnHQ2N92ZFy VYuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uw/F7pEOeRR0LuLtan5Kzbl4mZKk67vmJKAf9AWtg/M=; b=s4BEsozNzF0UYkOncOIqwjX9FBaSAT30P2ah0DyUYDGntZm0EmLo2z0MD8USNu+dXH aTqa/KQ1SQSn37XDySVcpkPSAppKKoYl4SWBg5ftk5zCM1Qp9egbKzJQcICnwxtRp8ER ZsAFw9fle5s0NUasGcpejJFxK7D/m21l9fB0QI02nB2Vhdw0ixWekST6TtmzsQEDUTLC WPyLcKCzYCsRdETUVQf/IsbzWc45SYt4MKYjaFT5JkFRDuprzjg/fLtUO07DPgmiefDG 541wGNC/sFyf76QoHHRU98440dovhyLDD/K71T40ugxw//nY2rvl9YcPQaAmo9DKtYyq 4mow== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUD6iBKjfogU2s752zJIdxaeEsNiJ7VONKzqjIz4UMdH1wUyAZn TaifkEsoKro9aXEalNWY2MkZBmzbAylRtmYQ+sYAW4nMJcw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzm0Ex+HRmpM0JL6pGKGPWiVcemlGOqb9eVzp055yP4S0MB4UenTTc6TBpJ8VrtHXSjHm2yZfV94aL9SmSp+K0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:21f2:: with SMTP id 47mr88839953qtz.38.1564634897490; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:48:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Joseph Salowey Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: To: emu@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000044b80a058f06f3a9" Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Call for adoption of draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 04:48:20 -0000 --00000000000044b80a058f06f3a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This is a call for adoption for draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id-01 as a EMU working group item. This draft had support at the working group meeting. If you object to adopting this work item please respond by August 12, 2019. Thanks, Joe --00000000000044b80a058f06f3a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
This is a call for adoption for draft-dekok-emu-eap-session-id=
-01 as a EMU working group item.  This draft had support at the working gro=
up meeting.  If you object to adopting this work item please respond by Aug=
ust 12, 2019.

Thanks,

Joe

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