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dCB3b3VsZA0KPiBoYXZlIGFsbW9zdCBubyBwcmFjdGljYWwgdmFsdWUuDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSBm b3Igc2hhcmluZyB5b3VyIHZpZXcgYnV0IGl0IGlzbid0IGJhc2VkIG9uIGZhY3RzIGFuZCBkb2Vz bid0IA0KcHJvdmlkZSBhbnkgc3VwcG9ydGluZyBldmlkZW5jZS4gT24gdGhlIGNvbnRyYXJ5OiB0 aGVyZSAzIGtub3duIA0KaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIG9mIEVBUC1OT09CICgxLiBodHRwczovL2dp dGh1Yi5jb20vdHVvbWF1cmEvZWFwLW5vb2IsIA0KMi5odHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vZWR1aW5n bGVzL2NvYXAtZWFwLW5vb2IsIGFuZCAzLiANCmh0dHBzOi8vZ2l0aHViLmNvbS9Wb2dlbHRhay9o b3N0YXApLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHB1YmxpYyBkZW1vIG9uIGEgc21hbGwgDQpkZXZpY2UgKGh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LnlvdXR1YmUuY29tL3dhdGNoP3Y9clB1RktvaWhsNUUpLCBhbmQgd2UgaGF2ZSBhIA0K c21hbGwgZGVwbG95bWVudC4gSSB0YWtlIG1hc3NpdmUgcHJpZGUgaW4gdGhpcy4gQ29tcGFyZSB0 aGlzIHdpdGggb3RoZXIgDQpFQVAgbWV0aG9kcyBzdWNoIGFzIEVBUC1URUFQIChodHRwczovL3Rv b2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvcmZjNzE3MCkgd2hpY2ggDQp3ZXJlIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplZCBhbmQg d2VudCBvbiB0byBiZWNvbWUgYW4gUkZDcyB3aXRoIG5vIGtub3duIA0KaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25z IGFuZCB3ZXJlIGxhdGVyIGZvdW5kIHRvIGNvbnRhaW4gYSBidW5jaCBvZiBlcnJhdGEgDQooaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cucmZjLWVkaXRvci5vcmcvZXJyYXRhL3JmYzcxNzApLiBUaGFua3MgdG8gRWxpb3Qs IE9sZWcsIA0KSm9yZ2UsIEpvZSwgYW5kIG90aGVycyB3aG8gYXJlIG5vdyBmaXhpbmcgdGhlbS4N Cg0KSSBzZWUgbm8gYWN0aW9uYWJsZSBwb2ludHMgaW4gdGhpcyByZXZpZXcgYW5kIGNvbnNpZGVy IGl0IGFkZHJlc3NlZC4NCg0KLS1Nb2hpdA0KDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo= From nobody Thu Jul 2 17:22:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4203F3A09E4; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 17:20:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: rdd@cert.org, emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.7.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159373563325.30173.17457396312002472817@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:20:33 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] emu - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 108 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:20:42 -0000 Dear Liz Flynn, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. emu Session 1 (0:50 requested) Friday, 31 July 2020, Session II 1300-1350 Room Name: Room 6 size: 6 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/sessions/emu.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: EAP Method Update Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Liz Flynn Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 50 Minutes Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: saag tls cfrg lwig Technology Overlap: curdle uta secdispatch oauth mls t2trg pearg lake Key Participant Conflict: sacm quic kitten bier acme 6lo People who must be present: Jari Arkko Joseph A. Salowey Roman Danyliw Alan DeKok John Mattsson Mohit Sethi Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Jul 3 02:22:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC053A0B4A for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 02:22:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=maxcrone.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WXq0sJYcOkwm for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 02:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qrelay222.mxroute.com (qrelay222.mxroute.com [172.82.139.222]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30CA53A0B48 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 02:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filter004.mxroute.com ([149.28.56.236] 149.28.56.236.vultr.com) (Authenticated sender: mN4UYu2MZsgR) by qrelay222.mxroute.com (ZoneMTA) with ESMTPA id 17313fb88b900027dd.001 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 09:21:58 +0000 X-Zone-Loop: 28ace436d3b0ec63f4a149c39dfc8dc484009afa4938 X-Originating-IP: [149.28.56.236] Received: from ghost.mxroute.com (ghost.mxroute.com [138.201.205.224]) by filter004.mxroute.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A6C43E9E0 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 09:21:57 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=maxcrone.org; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9S8GPY8lK+W+mSuaG/8GE6Y89aEceCZOcDz0L9tdrQ0=; b=QQyBvp8xZGJxyL23Ypli6LzSV/ fS0p2zm92cuV3UknmmR3GX8fEHqbpmsT7yBHlTulryXH0XIXIDdHXiPsLRDiRb0+lleiy+WFy+p9d ZqVNSWGBLt9XgD7xLgiHjIHKY0IGpySbQLOqIom//coBZN+iim93OmAzJna7rOrPc/q8UaUa9nXD8 lYSD802MUhQZ6/OJZFdw5XcI8v2YfjZAWF5xC7YjtEWRRXBGWf/fQP5c/8WEPyvUFGRN723AAsl4B ay0/w0gyTG/UdOcXHr+jHsjaI2a/IdqZKF3cZqO2xRNKImdU7CH+zI6tcVDys6Pm5wO/dG7XdkMh4 GHAbcrzA==; To: EMU WG From: Max Crone Message-ID: <3f7049c4-d1f7-b87b-5a4d-313b799be742@maxcrone.org> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:55 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: max@maxcrone.org Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 incorrect curve name in example messages X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 09:22:04 -0000 Hi, I noticed that the examples messages in Appendix F (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01#appendix-F) use the curve name "Curve25519" in the JWK object. However, according to the IANA registry (https://www.iana.org/assignments/jose/jose.xhtml#web-key-elliptic-curve), the curve name should be "X25519". In the implementation I am working on I will thus use the latter, trusting that the draft will update to conform to the IANA registry. 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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:02:03 +0000 From: Mohit Sethi M To: Max Crone , EMU WG Thread-Topic: [Emu] draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 incorrect curve name in example messages Thread-Index: AQHWVD1H5Sisqul0f0mW5Ep5PDmqyg== Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:02:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3f7049c4-d1f7-b87b-5a4d-313b799be742@maxcrone.org> In-Reply-To: <3f7049c4-d1f7-b87b-5a4d-313b799be742@maxcrone.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 authentication-results: maxcrone.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;maxcrone.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:14bb:140:10de:c8af:53f7:f0d6:ed49] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b272b4ab-ced0-48d6-638a-08d822546aea x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR07MB3146: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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Wed, 8 Jul 2020 13:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB24638998; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 13:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07EB84B5; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 13:12:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Dave Thaler , iot-directorate@ietf.org, draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob.all@ietf.org, emu@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2020 17:13:25 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking as a WG participant. Dave Thaler via Datatracker wrote: > 3) Section 3.3.2 says: >> The in-band messages are formatted as JSON objects [RFC8259] > So this limits applicability to constrained IoT devices, since JSON c= an be > verbose compared to, say, CBOR, and if the IoT device already uses CB= OR for > its normal protocol use this requires adding a separate parser for JS= ON which > may cause code size issues. Is there a rationale for why CBOR could= not be > an option? E.g., if this protocol is not applicable for constrained = devices, > then say so. (I don=E2=80=99t know whether EAP itself already inhere= ntly has > problems that limit its applicability for constrained devices.) I think that the document predates widespread availability of CBOR :-) I think that it would benefit from only using CBOR, as CBOR works into EAP much better than I think JSON does. That would be a radical change, but the document as only just been adopted = by the EMU WG. To the extent that EAP is used more on 802.11 rather than 802.15.4 [not that you can't do EAP/1x on 15.4, it just hasn't caught on], IoT devices that ha= ve power budget for WiFi can generally do EAP. There is a large variety of arduino class devices running FreeRTOS+micropython, for instance, which already have EAP supplicants. CBOR would be easier for them in the C code parts of them, while if the EAP-NOOB were to involve the python code (for callbacks, etc.) it wouldn't matter much as whether JSON or CBOR, it would likely be presented as python dict() anyway. Where there is a problem is a slightly smaller class of device which use various WiFi *MODULES*. Usually the microcontroller speaks i2c to this module, and the module takes care of all the TCP/IP/Ethernet/WiFi stuff. Those devices do not use EAP today, and they are hard to upgrade. (and from a security point of view, those architectures concern me greatly) =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl8F/nQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WU48gf6AkRzHv8hnGJGEUiZZ5IRVUHNLlzbHK2B0UdkXMIVN+olT6RiQhyxd3sw wgTf+vPBK+d/nFBY+UC9zP9M34e5tI7cA99lqWYJmDCAqBajEwYV/1cBeeACH4Ju cExxjS0KSoxyuaf9yIGT9cyG7Mfd6ACBkHL7EwLJHi5j2Ysujs8+8FbNZqV08DyX RwTZmO81ct+X0NhKJq2eY6tchCLmoukd4YOYpNJ5L3eV5xtpf2womSr6WTxp4+2E TsCfCXcKSYm2NAihguOel/1aEX9QlJwO3oVTZGa2Luf/WY+m56Ht4OLTnAV933wP As8Vukdjx8VOm7ibV1Mat2VdnsZzlw== =Wh8K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jul 8 23:46:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869033A00C0 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 23:46:04 -0700 (PDT) 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8850C3A0DBD for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=maxcrone.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qw0VV8dKuA0N for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dal2relay93.mxroute.com (dal2relay93.mxroute.com [64.40.26.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A06813A0DAA for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from filter004.mxroute.com ([149.28.56.236] 149.28.56.236.vultr.com) (Authenticated sender: mN4UYu2MZsgR) by dal2relay93.mxroute.com (ZoneMTA) with ESMTPSA id 17339377fa10002fac.001 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256); Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:53:25 +0000 X-Zone-Loop: 4140d92fc2eee220e9155037c937602eedaaac50d4b0 X-Originating-IP: [149.28.56.236] Received: from ghost.mxroute.com (ghost.mxroute.com [138.201.205.224]) by filter004.mxroute.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DE1C3F631 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:53:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=maxcrone.org; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=aSUbLMLUV5kcoBR9inghR1eCz86+/auCxAuyIefFNbg=; b=rN171SToEYfAG6npu78DxYN6VZ B1sGdbCF+pgprRRsiSofyu775evA7BL3JtyaeUA0GjBZtUjEgdtC5ry0yr9zbF+KGPBJBvPlxKEgU /Z/9QtMgwPVccHWe/4bee52EfaMeLjXhrHFAdMLU2MJGMmIOkJY5BCC1aTP/3n0/CiNqpcDn4E5Re k35trR3B9+I+m3/3WIbkre4eyGQ2rUEFI8dmpNspQ4aFHx2O5bFZFsmcPGCCoso47yU5PheDC46sR SlvVTBPv9PC2XeVp29UZBsudUsUs7/jfmfX129kPVr8pNeA+NQ8yvvqnzh56vYzIkR6kpSa4oduFJ aXatyO2g==; To: EMU WG From: Max Crone Message-ID: <943fead8-21a0-65ee-0d0a-249ec3f6b478@maxcrone.org> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 17:53:22 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: max@maxcrone.org Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] implementation status for draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:53:44 -0000 Hi all, The implementation of EAP-NOOB in hostap that I have been working on over the past few months is now compliant with the latest draft again. The most notable additions include support for the NIST P-256 cryptosuite and implementation of all the three different keying modes for the Reconnect Exchange. The source code can be found on GitHub for now, where we work to improve it. See https://github.com/vogeltak/hostap. With kind regards, Max Crone From nobody Sat Jul 11 06:27:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4373A0F48; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:27:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u7sQTqgUaSGQ; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ddaJiCM-50e3; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73EE63A0F59; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.100] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B3rdQ0Yh7zyRg; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:40:26 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 15:40:25 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , Dave Thaler , "iot-directorate@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob.all@ietf.org" , "emu@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 616167625.270686-83b577415943af1970e04ae0eda59989 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> <962.1594228341@localhost> To: Mohit Sethi M X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 13:40:31 -0000 Hi Mohit, > On 2020-07-11, at 15:27, Mohit Sethi M = wrote: >=20 > Hi Michael, >=20 > Thanks for the input. This is indeed something we should discuss at = the upcoming virtual EMU meeting.=20 >=20 > Some colleagues (Ingles Sanchez et al.) have also investigated and = documented the savings that might result from the use of CBOR in = EAP-NOOB: https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02880326/document That paper simply translates a JSON-like structure into CBOR, without = using any of the additional benefits of using CBOR (e.g., numeric map = labels). So I would expect the benefits of moving to CBOR to be larger than = described in this paper. > EAP-NOOB also relies on the JWK specification for encoding public = keys. While CBOR equivalent is defined in RFC 8152, it is a rather large = document that contains all the functionality of JWK, JWS, JWA (as far as = I understand). Following smaller modular specifications was somehow = easier at the time.=20 RFC 8152 does have a section structure, so you don=E2=80=99t need to = read all of it to just get the equivalent of JWK. > What is more important is that wpa_supplicant currently has a JSON = encoder and parser (https://w1.fi/cgit/hostap/tree/src/utils/json.c). I = think you would agree that wpa_supplicant is probably the most important = tool for those using EAP (at least on 802.11).=20 >=20 > One could use an external library since there are many CBOR = implementations available: https://cbor.io/impls.html. However this has = two major downsides: >=20 > - Adding an external library dependency implies that the overall = system becomes more brittle.=20 To the contrary. An implementation of JSON just for one application is = likely to have received less testing and overall development attention = than an industrial-strength library. If you for some reason don=E2=80=99t= agree with that, you can always create another CBOR implementation in = an afternoon :-) > - Updating and maintaining two components is definitely harder than = one.=20 Not sure I follow. > As said, this is worth discussing at the meeting since it would result = in a large change to the existing EAP-NOOB implementations.=20 Certainly! I just wanted to make sure you don=E2=80=99t make your decision for the = wrong reasons. 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IHdpdGggdGhhdCwgeW91IGNhbiBhbHdheXMgY3JlYXRlIGFub3RoZXIgQ0JPUiBpbXBsZW1lbnRh dGlvbiBpbiBhbiBhZnRlcm5vb24gOi0pDQo+DQo+PiAtIFVwZGF0aW5nIGFuZCBtYWludGFpbmlu ZyB0d28gY29tcG9uZW50cyBpcyBkZWZpbml0ZWx5IGhhcmRlciB0aGFuIG9uZS4NCj4gTm90IHN1 cmUgSSBmb2xsb3cuDQo+DQo+PiBBcyBzYWlkLCB0aGlzIGlzIHdvcnRoIGRpc2N1c3NpbmcgYXQg dGhlIG1lZXRpbmcgc2luY2UgaXQgd291bGQgcmVzdWx0IGluIGEgbGFyZ2UgY2hhbmdlIHRvIHRo ZSBleGlzdGluZyBFQVAtTk9PQiBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMuDQo+IENlcnRhaW5seSENCj4gSSBq dXN0IHdhbnRlZCB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgeW91IGRvbuKAmXQgbWFrZSB5b3VyIGRlY2lzaW9uIGZv ciB0aGUgd3JvbmcgcmVhc29ucy4NCj4NCj4gR3LDvMOfZSwgQ2Fyc3Rlbg0KPg0K From nobody Sat Jul 11 18:49:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A713A0812; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:49:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5K5S9FNifKqn; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BE973A0811; Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 06C1nnot021355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 11 Jul 2020 21:49:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 18:49:48 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Mohit Sethi M , Michael Richardson , Dave Thaler , "iot-directorate@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob.all@ietf.org" , "emu@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20200712014948.GR16335@kduck.mit.edu> References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> <962.1594228341@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 01:49:58 -0000 On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 03:40:25PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Hi Mohit, > > > > On 2020-07-11, at 15:27, Mohit Sethi M wrote: > > > > EAP-NOOB also relies on the JWK specification for encoding public keys. While CBOR equivalent is defined in RFC 8152, it is a rather large document that contains all the functionality of JWK, JWS, JWA (as far as I understand). Following smaller modular specifications was somehow easier at the time. > > RFC 8152 does have a section structure, so you don’t need to read all of it to just get the equivalent of JWK. draft-ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-struct and draft-ietf-cose-rfc8152bis-algs have section structure, too :) -Ben From nobody Sun Jul 12 05:44:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 111383A081F; Sun, 12 Jul 2020 05:44:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.7.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <159455789000.21208.13217595482512747385@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 05:44:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-02.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 12:44:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : Nimble out-of-band authentication for EAP (EAP-NOOB) Authors : Tuomas Aura Mohit Sethi Filename : draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-02.txt Pages : 66 Date : 2020-07-12 Abstract: The Extensible Authentication Protocol (EAP) provides support for multiple authentication methods. This document defines the EAP-NOOB authentication method for nimble out-of-band (OOB) authentication and key derivation. The EAP method is intended for bootstrapping all kinds of Internet-of-Things (IoT) devices that have no pre-configured authentication credentials. The method makes use of a user-assisted one-directional OOB message between the peer device and authentication server to authenticate the in-band key exchange. The device must have an input or output interface, such as a display, microphone, speakers or blinking light, which can send or receive dynamically generated messages of tens of bytes in length. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 13 10:44:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBD13A168A for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:44:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JDHGta6x04k7 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am6eur05on2050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.22.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 004C23A17D3 for ; 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Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:44:00 +0000 From: Mohit Sethi M To: "emu@ietf.org" CC: Jim Schaad , Alan DeKok , "j@w1.fi" , Roman Danyliw , Hannes Tschofenig Thread-Topic: Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling Thread-Index: AQHWWT0wdHdKwpHxS0OX+DAm2c3lZg== Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:44:00 +0000 Message-ID: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:14bb:140:27c7:2739:5cce:2572:bccb] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 27ed45fa-9beb-46b0-c50d-08d82754539b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR0701MB2666: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:51:39 -0400 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" , Jim Schaad , "j@w1.fi" , Roman Danyliw , Hannes Tschofenig Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3DB31766-6E92-46A0-9EB4-98E8D1516831@deployingradius.com> References: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> To: Mohit Sethi M X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:52:47 -0000 On Jul 13, 2020, at 1:44 PM, Mohit Sethi M = wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 is currently in the state "AD Evaluation::AD = Followup". Our AD (Roman) had done an excellent review = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/k6K98OhuOQmbzSAgGWCtSIVv3Qk/), = which I addressed in version 10 = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/IopJTjefyVVKpObzyFc0CAJ-Pig/).=20= > ... > Hannes says that this is not ideal and cannot be achieved with mbed = TLS 1.3 implementation. He made 3 alternative suggestions for achieving = the functionality of the commitment message = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/eM-14QdDQjg7DvhAVJMzpvPz5wg/).=20= >=20 > I would like to close this issue and would like to receive feedback = from others who have commented before or are working on implementations: = Jim, Alan, Jouni; please let us know what do you think about the change? hostap sends an encrypted octet. See = https://w1.fi/cgit/hostap/commit/?id=3D36ec5881657157752dced741256441c230e= 42fe6 EAP-TLS server: Add application data to indicate end of v1.3 handshake This adds an encrypted version of a one octet application data payload to the end of the handshake when TLS v1.3 is used to indicate explicit termination of the handshake (either after Finished message or after the optional NewSessionTicket message). The current draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 defines this to be a zero length payload, but since that is not allowed by OpenSSL, use a one octet payload instead for now with hopes of getting the draft specification updated instead of having to modify OpenSSL for this. Signed-off-by: Jouni Malinen FreeRADIUS does the same, as of recent commits in the v3.0.x branch. = We've successfully tested interoperability. So I think it's fine to send the one octet as *encrypted* data, and = not *plaintext*. Alan DeKok. 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Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:24:32 +0000 From: Jorge Vergara To: Alan DeKok , Mohit Sethi M CC: Roman Danyliw , "emu@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling Thread-Index: AQHWWT0wdHdKwpHxS0OX+DAm2c3lZqkFygqAgAAIRQA= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:24:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> <3DB31766-6E92-46A0-9EB4-98E8D1516831@deployingradius.com> In-Reply-To: <3DB31766-6E92-46A0-9EB4-98E8D1516831@deployingradius.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2020-07-13T18:24:31Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=Internal; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ActionId=cffb7536-f50e-4109-8b92-72be4d17461c; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH2PR21MB1381.namprd21.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fedc7b26-58d3-4684-54e1-08d82759fd51 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Jul 2020 18:24:32.6960 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TLCHEkrj9RuXRfizPaz9mMXUmPslqYhf8bZ8kncYmN2wli8LE2IZC0Zbd5zSXOG9afAS3/I59tlWT5zyzIQRwQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR21MB1383 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:24:47 -0000 Windows expects an encrypted octet. My brain had automatically translated t= he plaintext -> encrypted based on the timing of the commitment message - w= hich was apparently an incorrect translation at the time. Interop has been = tested with FreeRADIUS and hostapd. -----Original Message----- From: Emu On Behalf Of Alan DeKok Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 10:52 AM To: Mohit Sethi M Cc: Roman Danyliw ; emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message = handling On Jul 13, 2020, at 1:44 PM, Mohit Sethi M wro= te: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 is currently in the state "AD Evaluation::AD Fol= lowup". Our AD (Roman) had done an excellent review (https://nam06.safelink= s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2= Fmsg%2Femu%2Fk6K98OhuOQmbzSAgGWCtSIVv3Qk%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%4= 0microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7= cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380970944&sdata=3DmfYGmzLt9zC%2BDBmqGzeFmx= %2Bq8XdZG%2Bd0JefKvwSSQ%2Bw%3D&reserved=3D0), which I addressed in vers= ion 10 (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2= Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2FIopJTjefyVVKpObzyFc0CAJ-Pig%2F&a= mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755= b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380970944&sd= ata=3D%2FWzCNaXEnxX9adDHjLHKHmH0aYyG3CV4cqpyRSP7yF4%3D&reserved=3D0).=20 > ... > Hannes says that this is not ideal and cannot be achieved with mbed TLS 1= .3 implementation. He made 3 alternative suggestions for achieving the func= tionality of the commitment message (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.out= look.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2FeM-= 14QdDQjg7DvhAVJMzpvPz5wg%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7= C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C= 0%7C637302596380980941&sdata=3DumbXQTG0%2FLJN6IrXI%2BjgrQME6mE3UtmI7nOT= Adghl7M%3D&reserved=3D0).=20 >=20 > I would like to close this issue and would like to receive feedback from = others who have commented before or are working on implementations: Jim, Al= an, Jouni; please let us know what do you think about the change? hostap sends an encrypted octet. See https://nam06.safelinks.protection.= outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw1.fi%2Fcgit%2Fhostap%2Fcommit%2F%3Fid%3D3= 6ec5881657157752dced741256441c230e42fe6&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40mic= rosoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd01= 1db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380980941&sdata=3DR1R8rq0d0MyG36iSVeJwcP3UYRSb= %2F4MafyW9Ir%2BNx2A%3D&reserved=3D0 EAP-TLS server: Add application data to indicate end of v1.3 handshake This= adds an encrypted version of a one octet application data payload to the e= nd of the handshake when TLS v1.3 is used to indicate explicit termination = of the handshake (either after Finished message or after the optional NewSe= ssionTicket message). The current draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 defines this to be a zero length payload, but s= ince that is not allowed by OpenSSL, use a one octet payload instead for no= w with hopes of getting the draft specification updated instead of having t= o modify OpenSSL for this. Signed-off-by: Jouni Malinen FreeRADIUS does the same, as of recent commits in the v3.0.x branch. We'= ve successfully tested interoperability. So I think it's fine to send the one octet as *encrypted* data, and not *= plaintext*. Alan DeKok. _______________________________________________ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Femu&data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.= com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7= C1%7C0%7C637302596380980941&sdata=3D1xjqVMXOl1D62KRGdzAggBjEIuBVMoIU6Ai= sOnJEroo%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Mon Jul 13 11:31:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD01E3A1692 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fDvJPWHSsBJC for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AC7A3A1686 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:30:52 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Mohit Sethi M' , CC: 'Alan DeKok' , , 'Roman Danyliw' , 'Hannes Tschofenig' References: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 11:30:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000001d65943$bdba9190$392fb4b0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D65909.115C55D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH4M7yOapq8H5rAk9X9j99TstXjpajCH8bA Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 18:31:05 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D65909.115C55D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My expectation would be that the third option from Hannes is what should = be done. The commit message should be encrypted and not a plain text = message. =20 Jim =20 =20 From: Mohit Sethi M =20 Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 10:44 AM To: emu@ietf.org Cc: Jim Schaad ; Alan DeKok = ; j@w1.fi; Roman Danyliw ; = Hannes Tschofenig Subject: Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message = handling =20 Dear all, draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 is currently in the state "AD Evaluation::AD = Followup". Our AD (Roman) had done an excellent review = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/k6K98OhuOQmbzSAgGWCtSIVv3Qk/),= which I addressed in version 10 = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/IopJTjefyVVKpObzyFc0CAJ-Pig/).= =20 The only outstanding issue is the handling of the commitment message. = The current text in the draft says the following: When an EAP server has sent its last handshake message (Finished or a Post-Handshake), it commits to not sending any more handshake messages by sending a Commitment Message. The Commitment Message is a TLS record with application data 0x00 (i.e. a TLS record with TLSPlaintext.type =3D application_data, TLSPlaintext.length =3D 1, = and TLSPlaintext.fragment =3D 0x00). Note that the length of the = plaintext is greater than the corresponding TLSPlaintext.length due to the inclusion of TLSInnerPlaintext.type and any padding supplied by the sender. EAP server implementations MUST set TLSPlaintext.fragment to 0x00, but EAP peer implementations MUST accept any application data as a Commitment Message from the EAP server to not send any more handshake messages. The Commitment Message may be sent in the same EAP-Request as the last handshake record or in a separate EAP- Request. Sending the Commitment Message in a separate EAP-Request adds an additional round-trip, but may be necessary in TLS implementations that only implement a subset of TLS 1.3. Hannes says that this is not ideal and cannot be achieved with mbed TLS = 1.3 implementation. He made 3 alternative suggestions for achieving the = functionality of the commitment message = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/eM-14QdDQjg7DvhAVJMzpvPz5wg/).= =20 I would like to close this issue and would like to receive feedback from = others who have commented before or are working on implementations: Jim, = Alan, Jouni; please let us know what do you think about the change?=20 --Mohit ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D65909.115C55D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My = expectation would be that the third option from Hannes is what should be = done.=C2=A0 The commit message should be encrypted and not a plain text = message.

 

Jim

 

 

From: Mohit = Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com>
Sent: Monday, July = 13, 2020 10:44 AM
To: emu@ietf.org
Cc: Jim Schaad = <ietf@augustcellars.com>; Alan DeKok = <aland@deployingradius.com>; j@w1.fi; Roman Danyliw = <rdd@cert.org>; Hannes Tschofenig = <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Subject: Finishing = draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message = handling

 

Dear = all,

draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 is currently in the state = "AD Evaluation::AD Followup". Our AD (Roman) had done an = excellent review (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/k6K98OhuOQmbzSAgGWCtSIVv= 3Qk/), which I addressed in version 10 (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/IopJTjefyVVKpObzyFc0CAJ-= Pig/).

The only outstanding issue is the handling = of the commitment message. The current text in the draft says the = following:

=C2=A0=C2=A0 When an =
EAP server has sent its last handshake message (Finished or =
a
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Post-Handshake), it commits to not =
sending any more handshake
=C2=A0=C2=A0 messages by =
sending a Commitment Message.=C2=A0 The Commitment Message =
is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 a TLS record with application data =
0x00 (i.e. a TLS record with
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
TLSPlaintext.type =3D application_data, TLSPlaintext.length =3D 1, =
and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLSPlaintext.fragment =3D =
0x00).=C2=A0 Note that the length of the =
plaintext
=C2=A0=C2=A0 is greater than the =
corresponding TLSPlaintext.length due to =
the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 inclusion of =
TLSInnerPlaintext.type and any padding supplied by =
the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 sender.=C2=A0 EAP server =
implementations MUST set TLSPlaintext.fragment =
to
=C2=A0=C2=A0 0x00, but EAP peer implementations =
MUST accept any application data
=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a =
Commitment Message from the EAP server to not send any =
more
=C2=A0=C2=A0 handshake messages.=C2=A0 The =
Commitment Message may be sent in the =
same
=C2=A0=C2=A0 EAP-Request as the last handshake =
record or in a separate EAP-
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Request.=C2=A0 Sending the Commitment Message in a separate =
EAP-Request
=C2=A0=C2=A0 adds an additional =
round-trip, but may be necessary in =
TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 implementations that only =
implement a subset of TLS 1.3.


Hannes says that this is not ideal and cannot be = achieved with mbed TLS 1.3 implementation. He made 3 alternative = suggestions for achieving the functionality of the commitment message = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/eM-14QdDQjg7DvhAVJMzpvPz= 5wg/). 

I would like to = close this issue and would like to receive feedback from others who have = commented before or are working on implementations: Jim, Alan, Jouni; = please let us know what do you think about the change? =

--Mohit

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-1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FpOyd1LHfdbf for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 401C73A0DED for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:14:35 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Mohit Sethi M' , "'Jorge Vergara'" , 'Alan DeKok' , 'Hannes Tschofenig' CC: References: <1dbd00fc-0031-7198-5a0b-1f107dba942b@ericsson.com> <3DB31766-6E92-46A0-9EB4-98E8D1516831@deployingradius.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 20:14:32 -0700 Message-ID: <00ca01d65a56$117a3fc0$346ebf40$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D65A1B.651C5220" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH4M7yOapq8H5rAk9X9j99TstXjpQHEfI85AqHuihECE+RCqaiQcduQ Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message handling X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 03:14:46 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D65A1B.651C5220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 From: Emu On Behalf Of Mohit Sethi M Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 11:50 AM To: Jorge Vergara ; Alan = DeKok ; Hannes Tschofenig = Cc: emu@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment = Message handling =20 Hi Alan, Jorge, Jim, Hannes, One octet of plaintext naturally results in a larger encrypted record = (which serves as the notification). The current text only explains how = to construct the encrypted record by setting the TLSPlaintext to one = octet of zeros.=20 RFC 8446 in any case says the following in Section 5.1. Record Layer: = "Application Data messages contain data that is opaque to TLS. = Application Data messages are always protected." Perhaps the text can be made more explicit as follows: When an EAP server has sent its last handshake message (Finished or a = Post-Handshake), it commits to not sending any more handshake messages = by sending an encyrpted Commitment Message. The Commitment Message is = an encyrpted TLS record constructed with application data 0x00 (i.e. a = TLS record with TLSPlaintext.type =3D application_data, = TLSPlaintext.length =3D 1, and TLSPlaintext.fragment =3D 0x00). Note = that the length of the plaintext is greater than the=20 =20 [JLS] I tend to find the above confusing. Why not stop with saying the = commit message is a single byte of 0 in the application data stream. = All of the rest I find to just be confusion. =20 corresponding TLSPlaintext.length due to the inclusion of = TLSInnerPlaintext.type and any padding supplied by the sender. EAP = server implementations MUST set TLSPlaintext.fragment to 0x00, but EAP = peer implementations MUST accept any application data as a Commitment = Message from the EAP server to not send any more handshake messages. = The Commitment Message may be sent in the same EAP-Request as the last = handshake record or in a separate EAP-Request. Sending the Commitment = Message in a separate EAP-Request adds an additional round-trip, but may = be necessary in TLS implementations that only implement a subset of TLS = 1.3. Is this amenable to all?=20 --Mohit On 7/13/20 9:24 PM, Jorge Vergara wrote: Windows expects an encrypted octet. My brain had automatically = translated the plaintext -> encrypted based on the timing of the = commitment message - which was apparently an incorrect translation at = the time. Interop has been tested with FreeRADIUS and hostapd. =20 -----Original Message----- From: Emu On = Behalf Of Alan DeKok Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 10:52 AM To: Mohit Sethi M = Cc: Roman Danyliw ; emu@ietf.org = =20 Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment = Message handling =20 On Jul 13, 2020, at 1:44 PM, Mohit Sethi M = wrote: =20 Dear all, =20 draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 is currently in the state "AD Evaluation::AD = Followup". Our AD (Roman) had done an excellent review = (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmail= archive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2Fk6K98OhuOQmbzSAgGWCtSIVv3Qk%2F = = &data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d8= 2755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380970944&= amp;sdata=3DmfYGmzLt9zC%2BDBmqGzeFmx%2Bq8XdZG%2Bd0JefKvwSSQ%2Bw%3D&re= served=3D0), which I addressed in version 10 = (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmail= archive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2FIopJTjefyVVKpObzyFc0CAJ-Pig%2F = = = &data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d8= 2755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380970944&= amp;sdata=3D%2FWzCNaXEnxX9adDHjLHKHmH0aYyG3CV4cqpyRSP7yF4%3D&reserved= =3D0).=20 ... Hannes says that this is not ideal and cannot be achieved with mbed TLS = 1.3 implementation. He made 3 alternative suggestions for achieving the = functionality of the commitment message = (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmail= archive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2FeM-14QdDQjg7DvhAVJMzpvPz5wg%2F = = &data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d8= 2755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380980941&= amp;sdata=3DumbXQTG0%2FLJN6IrXI%2BjgrQME6mE3UtmI7nOTAdghl7M%3D&reserv= ed=3D0).=20 =20 I would like to close this issue and would like to receive feedback from = others who have commented before or are working on implementations: Jim, = Alan, Jouni; please let us know what do you think about the change? =20 hostap sends an encrypted octet. See = https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw1.fi= %2Fcgit%2Fhostap%2Fcommit%2F%3Fid%3D36ec5881657157752dced741256441c230e42= fe6 = = &data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d8= 2755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380980941&= amp;sdata=3DR1R8rq0d0MyG36iSVeJwcP3UYRSb%2F4MafyW9Ir%2BNx2A%3D&reserv= ed=3D0 =20 EAP-TLS server: Add application data to indicate end of v1.3 handshake = This adds an encrypted version of a one octet application data payload = to the end of the handshake when TLS v1.3 is used to indicate explicit = termination of the handshake (either after Finished message or after the = optional NewSessionTicket message). The current draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 defines this to be a zero length payload, = but since that is not allowed by OpenSSL, use a one octet payload = instead for now with hopes of getting the draft specification updated = instead of having to modify OpenSSL for this. =20 Signed-off-by: Jouni Malinen =20 FreeRADIUS does the same, as of recent commits in the v3.0.x branch. = We've successfully tested interoperability. =20 So I think it's fine to send the one octet as *encrypted* data, and = not *plaintext*. =20 Alan DeKok. =20 _______________________________________________ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org =20 https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Femu = = &data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d8= 2755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380980941&= amp;sdata=3D1xjqVMXOl1D62KRGdzAggBjEIuBVMoIU6AisOnJEroo%3D&reserved=3D= 0 =20 _______________________________________________ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D65A1B.651C5220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

From: Emu = <emu-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mohit Sethi = M
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 11:50 AM
To: Jorge = Vergara <jovergar=3D40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Alan DeKok = <aland@deployingradius.com>; Hannes Tschofenig = <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Cc: = emu@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Emu] Finishing = draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message = handling

 

Hi Alan, Jorge, Jim, = Hannes,

One octet of plaintext naturally results in a = larger encrypted record (which serves as the notification). The current = text only explains how to construct the encrypted record by setting the = TLSPlaintext to one octet of zeros.

RFC 8446 in any = case says the following in Section 5.1.  Record Layer: = "Application Data messages contain data that is opaque to TLS. = Application Data messages are always = protected."

Perhaps the text can be made more = explicit as follows:

When = an EAP server has sent its last handshake message (Finished or a = Post-Handshake), it commits to not sending any more handshake messages = by sending an encyrpted Commitment Message.  The Commitment = Message is an encyrpted TLS record constructed with = application data 0x00 (i.e. a TLS record with TLSPlaintext.type =3D = application_data, TLSPlaintext.length =3D 1, and TLSPlaintext.fragment = =3D 0x00).  Note that the length of the plaintext is greater than = the

 

[JLS] I tend to find the above confusing.=C2=A0 Why = not stop with saying the commit message is a single byte of 0 in the = application data stream.=C2=A0 All of the rest I find to just be = confusion.

 

corresponding TLSPlaintext.length due to the inclusion = of TLSInnerPlaintext.type and any padding supplied by the sender.  = EAP server implementations MUST set TLSPlaintext.fragment to 0x00, but = EAP peer implementations MUST accept any application data as a = Commitment Message from the EAP server to not send any more handshake = messages.  The Commitment Message may be sent in the same = EAP-Request as the last handshake record or in a separate = EAP-Request.  Sending the Commitment Message in a separate = EAP-Request adds an additional round-trip, but may be necessary in TLS = implementations that only implement a subset of TLS = 1.3.

Is this amenable to = all?

--Mohit

On 7/13/20 9:24 PM, Jorge Vergara = wrote:

Windows expects an =
encrypted octet. My brain had automatically translated the plaintext =
-> encrypted based on the timing of the commitment message - which =
was apparently an incorrect translation at the time. Interop has been =
tested with FreeRADIUS and =
hostapd.
 
-----Original =
Message-----
From: Emu <emu-bounces@ietf.org> On =
Behalf Of Alan DeKok
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 =
10:52 AM
To: Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com=
>
Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; emu@ietf.org
Subjec=
t: Re: [Emu] Finishing draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13 - Commitment Message =
handling
 
On Jul 13, =
2020, at 1:44 PM, Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com=
> wrote:
 
Dear =
all,
 
draft-ietf-emu-eap-=
tls13 is currently in the state "AD Evaluation::AD Followup". =
Our AD (Roman) had done an excellent review (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/=
?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2Fk6K98OhuOQ=
mbzSAgGWCtSIVv3Qk%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C=
435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7=
C0%7C637302596380970944&amp;sdata=3DmfYGmzLt9zC%2BDBmqGzeFmx%2Bq8XdZG=
%2Bd0JefKvwSSQ%2Bw%3D&amp;reserved=3D0), which I addressed in =
version 10 (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3D=
https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2FIopJTjefyVVKpObzy=
Fc0CAJ-Pig%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435cd35=
863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63=
7302596380970944&amp;sdata=3D%2FWzCNaXEnxX9adDHjLHKHmH0aYyG3CV4cqpyRS=
P7yF4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0). =

...
Hannes says that this is =
not ideal and cannot be achieved with mbed TLS 1.3 implementation. He =
made 3 alternative suggestions for achieving the functionality of the =
commitment message (https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Femu%2FeM-14QdDQjg7Dv=
hAVJMzpvPz5wg%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C435c=
d35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7=
C637302596380980941&amp;sdata=3DumbXQTG0%2FLJN6IrXI%2BjgrQME6mE3UtmI7=
nOTAdghl7M%3D&amp;reserved=3D0). =

 
I would like to close =
this issue and would like to receive feedback from others who have =
commented before or are working on implementations: Jim, Alan, Jouni; =
please let us know what do you think about the =
change?
 
=C2=
=A0 hostap sends an encrypted octet.=C2=A0 See https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook=
.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw1.fi%2Fcgit%2Fhostap%2Fcommit%2F%3Fid%3D36ec58=
81657157752dced741256441c230e42fe6&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40mi=
crosoft.com%7C435cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7c=
d011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637302596380980941&amp;sdata=3DR1R8rq0d0MyG36iSVeJ=
wcP3UYRSb%2F4MafyW9Ir%2BNx2A%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
= 
 
EAP-TLS server: Add application data to =
indicate end of v1.3 handshake This adds an encrypted version of a one =
octet application data payload to the end of the handshake when TLS v1.3 =
is used to indicate explicit termination of the handshake (either after =
Finished message or after the optional NewSessionTicket message). The =
current
draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-05 defines this to =
be a zero length payload, but since that is not allowed by OpenSSL, use =
a one octet payload instead for now with hopes of getting the draft =
specification updated instead of having to modify OpenSSL for =
this.
 
Signed-off-by: =
Jouni Malinen <j@w1.fi>
&nb=
sp;
=C2=A0 FreeRADIUS does the same, as of recent =
commits in the v3.0.x branch.=C2=A0 We've successfully tested =
interoperability.
 
=C2=A0=
 So I think it's fine to send the one octet as *encrypted* data, and not =
*plaintext*.
 
=C2=A0 =
Alan =
DeKok.
 
_________________=
______________________________
Emu mailing =
list
Emu@ietf.org
https://nam06.s=
afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailm=
an%2Flistinfo%2Femu&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cjovergar%40microsoft.com%7C4=
35cd35863dd44a5aba708d82755b6b4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C=
0%7C637302596380980941&amp;sdata=3D1xjqVMXOl1D62KRGdzAggBjEIuBVMoIU6A=
isOnJEroo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
 
_______________________________________________<=
/pre>
Emu mailing list
Emu@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/emu
<= /html> ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D65A1B.651C5220-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 01:44:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950953A16D4 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 01:44:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mtG7LI68Ite3 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 01:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A33B3A16CF for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 01:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.9]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee35f16aabf89e-78eab; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AHi all,
For the following reasons:
  1. X509=0ACertificate management costs;
  2. Certificate=0Acan be relatively large;
  3. Certificate=0Ach= ains long, too many intermediate certificates;
  4. Certifica= te-based=0Aauthentication is not suitable for restricted environment, such= as IoT=0Adevices;
This draft focus on Raw Public Key using in E= AP-TLS, both TLS1.2 and TLS1.3, and complete the whole handshake process.<= /div>
The draft is based on RFC 7250 and RFC 6507.
  1. <= span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: normal; text-indent: -0.25in= ; background-color: transparent;">RFC 7250 specified using Raw Public key = in TLS and DTLS with two extensions(client_certificate_type,&nbs= p;server_certificate_type= );
  2. RFC 6507 = ;specified an IBS algorithm with Elliptic curve cryptography called ECCSI;
    3. =
welcome comments and in-dept dis= cussion.

=
Meiling Chen,
=
Thanks.
=0A
=0A
 
Date: 2020-05-12 16:38
<= div>To: Meiling= Chen; HAIGUANG Wang;= Haiguang Wang; Li Su; chenmeiling
Subject: New Versio= n Notification for draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs-00.txt
 
=0A
A new version of I-D, draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs= -00.txt
=0A
has been successfully submitted by Meiling Chen and p= osted to the
=0A
IETF repository.
=0A
 
=0AName: draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs
=0A
Revision: 00
=0ATitle: Use Identity as Raw Public Key in EAP-TLS
=0A
Document d= ate: 2020-05-12
=0A
Group: Individual Submission
=0A
Pa= ges: 19
=0A
URL:        =     https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-emu-eap= -tls-ibs-00.txt
=0A
Status:      &n= bsp;  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs/=0A
Htmlized:       https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs-00
=0A
Htmlized:  = ;     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen= -emu-eap-tls-ibs
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
Abst= ract:
=0A
   This document specifies the use of identit= y as a raw public key in
=0A
   EAP-TLS and EAP-TLS13, = EAP-TLS defined in RFC 5216.  The protocol
=0A
   = procedures of EAP-TLS-IBS will comply with EAP-TLS and EAP-TLS13,
=0A=
   Identity-based signature will be extended to support EAP= -TLS's
=0A
   signature algorithms.
=0A
 =
=0A
          =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;         
=0A
&nb= sp;
=0A
 
=0A
Please note that it may take a couple= of minutes from the time of submission
=0A
until the htmlized ve= rsion and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
=0A
 
= =0A
The IETF Secretariat
=0A
 
=0A
 
= =0A
 
=0A
------=_001_NextPart765550066765_=------ From nobody Wed Jul 22 13:59:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39283A097E for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_HDRS_LCASE=1.999, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nGP0TzT_N5gz for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.goatley.com (www.goatley.com [198.137.202.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFD833A0953 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trixy.bergandi.net (cpe-76-93-158-174.san.res.rr.com [76.93.158.174]) by wwwlocal.goatley.com (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTP id <0QDW044M12BSLE@wwwlocal.goatley.com> for emu@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 15:59:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Dans-MacBook-Pro.local ([69.12.173.8]) by trixy.bergandi.net (PMDF V6.7-x01 #2433) with ESMTPSA id <0QDW00126275O7@trixy.bergandi.net> for emu@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net ([69.12.173.8] EXTERNAL) (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) with TLS/SSL by trixy.bergandi.net ([10.0.42.18]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:57:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 13:59:49 -0700 From: Dan Harkins To: emu Message-id: <62fc76cd-25c8-ecf0-c9d2-52c751201a16@lounge.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (recv=trixy.bergandi.net, send-ip=69.12.173.8) X-PMAS-External-Auth: 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net [69.12.173.8] (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [200720] (trixy.bergandi.net) X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 20:59:54 -0000   Hello,   Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a new authentication mechanism using out-of-band trust establishment (ala the DPP protocol) into TLS for use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS. This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices using the same boostrapping methods that DPP uses for wireless.   I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brief presentation. Here's a link to the draft if you're interested: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp/   regards,   Dan. From nobody Thu Jul 23 07:59:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3526B3A090B; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:59:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LpC4oxQBohtM; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A5B53A08BE; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.46.130] (24-52-251-6.cable.teksavvy.com [24.52.251.6]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12D9D7B; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:59:26 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=freeradius.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: <159175967272.17813.10689161410731354249@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 10:59:25 -0400 Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id@ietf.org, emu-chairs@ietf.org, EMU WG , Mohit Sethi Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <12CD9CDA-32D8-414C-B5B5-1767A4FBE567@freeradius.org> References: <159175967272.17813.10689161410731354249@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Benjamin Kaduk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-04: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:59:37 -0000 On Jun 9, 2020, at 11:27 PM, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker = wrote: > Section 2.2 discusses the "AT_MAC attribute from the > EAP-Request/AKA-Reauthentication" in the context of computing the > EAP-SIM Session-Id, but there is no such EAP-Request message for > EAP-SIM. Presumably it should be "EAP-Request/SIM/Re-authentication", > and a similar change in Session 2.3 (which would need to cover both = the > AKA and SIM cases)? Yes, fixed. > We need some kind of a reference for PEAP. (Is > draft-josefsson-pppext-eap-tls-eap tolerable?) I'll add that, along with a link to the official Microsoft = documentation for PEAP. >=20 > RFC 5247 (and 3748) refer to a "fast reconnect" mechanism, not a "fast > re-authentication" mechanism as we discuss it here (though it does > discuss "fast EAP re-authentication"). Is there a consistent > terminology to settle on? I'll use "fast reconnect" for consistency with the previous standards. = However, some of the packet flows in those documents refer to = "Reauthentication". I'll use that in this document, again for = consistency. > Also, some of the attributes we use for the fast re-authentication > Session-Id generation are encrypted for transit. Should we say > something about the decrypted version being needed for producing the > right input? I don't think so. The documents are all fairly clear that internal = calculations of fields are done with the clear-text version, and not = with the "on the wire" encrypted version. > I also want to mention an observation that I made (which may itself be > erroneous), and ask how that relates to the Session-Id usage: in > EAP-AKA, the full authentication's Session-Id construction uses just = the > RAND and AUTN, which are server-generated and are related in a way = that > can be validated using just(?) the peer's identity as additional = input. > When we start pulling in AT_MAC for the fast re-authentication > Session-Id, the MAC can no longer be validated without the context of = the > full EAP packet it was obtained from. I don't know of any case where > there would be a need to do internal consistency checking on a > Session-Id in a way that's made difficult by using AT_MAC divorced = from > the containing EAP packet, but it seemed worth checking. I have fewer opinions about that. Perhaps someone else can chime in. > I agree with the genart reviewer that the abstract+introduction should > mention that the definition of Session-Id for EAP-SIM full > authentication gets some additional clarification. Done. > Section 1 >=20 > The IEEE is defining FILS authentication [FILS], which needs the EAP >=20 > nit: can we expand Fast Initial Link Setup here? Done. > Further, [RFC5247] did not define Session-Id for PEAP. We correct > these deficiencies here by updating [RFC5247] with the Session-Id > derivation during fast-authentication exchange for EAP-SIM and EAP- > AKA; and defining Session-Id derivation for PEAP. >=20 > Perhaps note that this definition for PEAP is for both the > fast-authentication and full-authentication cases? Yes. > Section 2.2 >=20 > It's not entirely clear that we need to expend the text to introduce = the > "RAND1", "RAND2", "RAND3" terminology, that AFAICT is not defined in = RFC > 4186 itself (though it is used in one example). I think it makes the definition of Session-Id clearer. I'm not sure = what the alternative would be. > Also, I'm not entirely sure why we copy the Peer-Id/Server-Id = paragraph > unchanged and put the fast re-auth case after it for EAP-SIM, when we > ignored that paragraph for EAP-AKA. Sure. I can delete that paragraph. > Section 2.3 >=20 > re-authentication case. Based on [RFC4187] Section 5.2, and similar > text in [RFC4186], NONCE_S corresponds to RAND and MAC in EAP- >=20 > The RFC 4186 text is its section 5.2 (as well), which might be worth > mentioning more clearly. Sure. > Request/AKA-Reauthentication corresponds to AUTN. That would seem to > imply that the Session-Id could be defined using NONCE_S and MAC > instead of RAND and AUTN/NONCE_MT. >=20 > This "would seem to imply" language is not terribly confidence > inspiring. Perhaps we want to talk about providing a random value > contributed by the server and a value derived from that random value > with inclusion of secret key material and the peer's identity, which > seem to be the relevant "corresponding properties" to this reader. My > question above about independent validation still stands, though. I'll add some text. > Section 3 >=20 > Protected EAP (PEAP). For consistency with EAP-TLS the definition > given in [RFC5216] Section 2.3, we define it as: >=20 > nit: the grammar here is a bit wonky, perhaps "consistency with the > definition given in [RFC5216] Section 2.3 for EAP-TLS"? Fixed. > This definition is already in wide-spread use in multiple PEAP > implementations. >=20 > More details about these implementations (and, for that matter, the > EAP-AKA and EAP-SIM ones) in the shepherd writeup would have been > helpful. The PEAP Session-Id definition is used in all known PEAP = implementations. I'm less sure about EAP-AKA / SIM implementations. I = know hostap supports it. > Note that this definition for Session-Id only applies when TLS 1.2 = is > used. A different derivation is defined for TLS 1.3 in [TLS-EAP- >=20 > Is PEAP defined for use with TLS 1.1 or prior? (I know that we're in > the process of deprecating TLS prior to 1.2, but that's not quite done > yet.) Yes, PEAP is define for use with TLS 1.1. However, = draft-ietf-tls-oldversions-deprecate deprecates everything before TLS = 1.2 > Section 4 >=20 > We probably want to say something about how these constructions are > unique per session and unforgeable+unguessable by an outside party. > (Section 5.10 of RFC 5247 implies a need for the unguessable = property.) Yes. I'll add some text. > "No known security issues" is a pretty low bar. Who has looked (how > hard?) and what are their qualifications? Perhaps it should say "little security analysis has been done" > Section 6.1 >=20 > I don't think RFC 6696 needs to be a normative reference. Sure. > Acknowledgments >=20 > I guess we should mark eid 5011 as "Hold For Document Update" before > this document gets published (it's currently just "Reported")? Yes. Alan DeKok. From nobody Sat Jul 25 08:51:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CA63A0B6B for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XVGeHddVt8ft for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F1953A0D42 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id 9so10390824wmj.5 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:50:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date:importance:in-reply-to :references; bh=NR2K68EjfigdB9jQPLQvKsiIDTDR5THu++S5b/N9dgM=; b=MqP9nF+lcfBwiBSdu4HNLSjgnwFbWUGXOgZdqFzYKlVOwchSIUPmo0vM0X3Ld8LccQ OddEtEt7MlEqG0wXFV+fpSDnF7TsokFCeHFEbqgbxLb1IrQfx2araiJXuyMsBL6sftxK N7GtZxSi7uKTKmpACmKh3HqiEsLChCPZFvo/FA4JiUqUTUV6xMAP60l5Rm1NSTtD/16e XKHCmkMTQWUelpAau4D7/BqpHiXugzirWsPWg8YDSvt6dGFwf3mO3SQ1o5iEQP5OhhEd 7+xxJ65/LsIDJ7L5hhR5QWjGscl5vTrPIYTsCkODIT+X95jILijUy0oQ3YFhidaIyWhe 6X9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date :importance:in-reply-to:references; bh=NR2K68EjfigdB9jQPLQvKsiIDTDR5THu++S5b/N9dgM=; b=fqwXodtH1uOxO2zxX27DtMw0oo9h/OfGTaC02+EM6Akt5uhrezA1fCtUhO9rc8jGWF zQJnQ+V3DE8RSXTXiulP72kchurG43TDPdbpQ8PjWS4OG1kE7rAFcpgNyFhKVw6dxuG0 gHiZ4zu5WphuoMNVe9ZaESekEMIe50oT9r8eDxZdx0hiDCoo3cVHQK3drHTSEd/8MbH6 WXY7fYJ3kraYGsvuPi2+RRCAt27zuC++VHomoMa4WvT3Qr/UQ0kNWojkffCrqLkBw5ml 1hsOOX4uW4bId77juq0pc9gczRbe3Ws4OAwVEURAcpZFBsfPheEqqX/32lTfU1tvLYDi YFaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Dkz+Z/Q53YOYz0w4GF+ucD3GUyNam3bJqVogRmaAuoVNyY20f ot5xIhqe5m/nTrB0dspefnU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9a+tBpahmwLFn/xSFQkeWhpgv0EzYoQhqVbmJGuJV9PyqUa6yWnaryPwSJrqboF8hRgGgkg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2350:: with SMTP id j77mr13879760wmj.31.1595692253370; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2a00:23c6:fa0d:de00:91f1:20f:aca0:2006? ([2a00:23c6:fa0d:de00:91f1:20f:aca0:2006]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t3sm5773716wre.41.2020.07.25.08.50.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Jul 2020 08:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5f1c54dc.1c69fb81.79e10.408c@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Harkins , emu From: Josh Howlett Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:50:53 +0100 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <62fc76cd-25c8-ecf0-c9d2-52c751201a16@lounge.org> References: <62fc76cd-25c8-ecf0-c9d2-52c751201a16@lounge.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_2FF79948-F467-46D7-95A5-8BAC646A0F9A_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 15:51:11 -0000 --_2FF79948-F467-46D7-95A5-8BAC646A0F9A_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This may be a stupid question, but I can=E2=80=99t find an explanation in t= he draft or figure it out myself... If the intended application for this TL= S extension is network access, might it be simpler to define a new EAP meth= od that used a similar key exchange? That would avoid touching implementati= ons of TLS and those EAP methods using the extension. Josh From: Dan Harkins Sent: 22 July 2020 21:59 To: emu Subject: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP =C2=A0 Hello, =C2=A0 Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a new authentication mechanism using out-of-band trust establishment (ala the DPP protocol) into TLS for use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS. This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices using the same boostrapping methods that DPP uses for wireless. =C2=A0 I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brief presentation. Here's a link to the draft if you're interested: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp/ =C2=A0 regards, =C2=A0 Dan. _______________________________________________ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu --_2FF79948-F467-46D7-95A5-8BAC646A0F9A_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

This may be a stupid question, but I= can=E2=80=99t find an explanation in the draft or figure it out myself... = If the intended application for this TLS extension is network access, might= it be simpler to define a new EAP method that used a similar key exchange?= That would avoid touching implementations of TLS and those EAP methods usi= ng the extension.

 

Josh

 

From: Dan Harkins
= Sent: 22 July 2020 21:59
To: = emu
Subject: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP

 

 

  Hello,

 

  Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a n= ew authentication

mechanism using out-of-band trust= establishment (ala the DPP protocol)

into TLS for = use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS.

This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices using the

same boostrapping methods that DPP uses for wireless.=

 

  = I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brief presentation. Here's a

link to the draft if you're interested:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp/

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>   regards,

 

  Dan.

 = ;

 

<= o:p> 

__________________________________= _____________

Emu mailing list

Emu@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/emu

 

= --_2FF79948-F467-46D7-95A5-8BAC646A0F9A_-- From nobody Sat Jul 25 10:49:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664373A0D65 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:49:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WzQVb6kmA1It for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.goatley.com (www.goatley.com [198.137.202.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBEB23A0D63 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trixy.bergandi.net (cpe-76-93-158-174.san.res.rr.com [76.93.158.174]) by wwwlocal.goatley.com (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTP id <0QE10AQ5GDIOO1@wwwlocal.goatley.com> for emu@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:49:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Dans-MacBook-Pro.local ([69.12.173.8]) by trixy.bergandi.net (PMDF V6.7-x01 #2433) with ESMTPSA id <0QE1005H1DDMZS@trixy.bergandi.net> for emu@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net ([69.12.173.8] EXTERNAL) (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) with TLS/SSL by trixy.bergandi.net ([10.0.42.18]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:46:36 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:49:33 -0700 From: Dan Harkins In-reply-to: <5f1c54dc.1c69fb81.79e10.408c@mx.google.com> To: Josh Howlett , emu Message-id: <156083ec-1787-70f2-98e2-a5aa7ad91a56@lounge.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_06/nmWR1h6riPTGqwIUynA)" Content-language: en-US User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (recv=trixy.bergandi.net, send-ip=69.12.173.8) X-PMAS-External-Auth: 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net [69.12.173.8] (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) References: <62fc76cd-25c8-ecf0-c9d2-52c751201a16@lounge.org> <5f1c54dc.1c69fb81.79e10.408c@mx.google.com> X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [200723] (trixy.bergandi.net) X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 17:49:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_06/nmWR1h6riPTGqwIUynA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT   Hi Josh,   TLS-pok is a one-off. It's not for network access, it's to use a trusted public key bootstrapped in any of the ways DPP has defined to authenticate something like TEAP. TLS-pok authenticates the "outer" TEAP tunnel and inside that tunnel a PKCS#10/PKCS#7 exchange happens and the device gets provisioned for network access. The bootstrapped key is never used again. Network access is accomplished using the credentials provisioned by TEAP.   regards,   Dan. On 7/25/20 8:50 AM, Josh Howlett wrote: > > This may be a stupid question, but I can’t find an explanation in the > draft or figure it out myself... If the intended application for this > TLS extension is network access, might it be simpler to define a new > EAP method that used a similar key exchange? That would avoid touching > implementations of TLS and those EAP methods using the extension. > > Josh > > *From: *Dan Harkins > *Sent: *22 July 2020 21:59 > *To: *emu > *Subject: *[Emu] TLS-pok for EAP > >   Hello, > >   Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a new authentication > > mechanism using out-of-band trust establishment (ala the DPP protocol) > > into TLS for use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS. > > This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices using the > > same boostrapping methods that DPP uses for wireless. > >   I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brief presentation. Here's a > > link to the draft if you're interested: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp/ > >   regards, > >   Dan. > > _______________________________________________ > > Emu mailing list > > Emu@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu > --Boundary_(ID_06/nmWR1h6riPTGqwIUynA) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
  Hi Josh,

  TLS-pok is a one-off. It's not for network access, it's to use a
trusted public key bootstrapped in any of the ways DPP has defined
to authenticate something like TEAP. TLS-pok authenticates the "outer"
TEAP tunnel and inside that tunnel a PKCS#10/PKCS#7 exchange happens
and the device gets provisioned for network access. The bootstrapped
key is never used again. Network access is accomplished using the
credentials provisioned by TEAP.

  regards,

  Dan.

On 7/25/20 8:50 AM, Josh Howlett wrote:

This may be a stupid question, but I can’t find an explanation in the draft or figure it out myself... If the intended application for this TLS extension is network access, might it be simpler to define a new EAP method that used a similar key exchange? That would avoid touching implementations of TLS and those EAP methods using the extension.

 

Josh

 

From: Dan Harkins
Sent: 22 July 2020 21:59
To: emu
Subject: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP

 

 

  Hello,

 

  Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a new authentication

mechanism using out-of-band trust establishment (ala the DPP protocol)

into TLS for use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS.

This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices using the

same boostrapping methods that DPP uses for wireless.

 

  I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brief presentation. Here's a

link to the draft if you're interested:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp/

 

  regards,

 

  Dan.

 

 

 

_______________________________________________

Emu mailing list

Emu@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

 


--Boundary_(ID_06/nmWR1h6riPTGqwIUynA)-- From nobody Sun Jul 26 05:10:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4493A0DEB for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 05:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wm5Dcn221EZ4 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 05:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 867433A0DE6 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 05:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id f18so2909845wmc.0 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 05:10:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date:importance:in-reply-to :references; bh=dLY0G1VGogSzRm+cQxpQHlsClSS3WerusnivxvGztME=; b=kzB6D/Dp2dirAwidyRwQNWijd2u6hOr4gSyzvbaqaPsULYqmXrA1xI8AH6e5mWLA+R f3B2kAlEU0lvUHErl6nDGEhoyPBmieq1s1r7sngswRDMRLOD9LpeFzZzW9so1oddOBqr +Ddm2NRr8diTZj9lmY9sNfSZ1Tbr6StGRP8VjeONNETchQXiY80sWIAc3LDyK9nq7UxU WcKR2q7UmCxmNEACE3ryCJPdGYmjkoywaa12jrXTqXDGb6tNjddqQTqBrpPSSnqzq0x+ 2BaMb4JdOe4PwB2lElq2lFFP6vvR44qQ7w5uClAja89SFakH0hZVSDatst6hXPg8aPy5 EZXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date :importance:in-reply-to:references; bh=dLY0G1VGogSzRm+cQxpQHlsClSS3WerusnivxvGztME=; b=bQzsWqF7I44UzcCPaF76jUpq6vT0X0+wxPg0de/3nmo7TGZeNdP0d6nj9TyogFGRGZ Pfq2dJ+vJleVPjNUJ/xTavXu8s9AX96qH2Jalv55YZc/d0Ar31MwZOk5rJyet8Vtstwp p5bgRmRrPk8L+n0TX7+68JNzTBYEaLpD5FUVrMa8ihbkg06gwYM+xNKk5X/onCaGr/Nt ojX1uxJUdlTFrbn5elsY0c/OhmDL0nOhpSYFxIwZofaJ3+wJhHzDlYKWx1CL4SYBzUQK eUe8upE4ex4rvQXbDt7Pgagpzf+XXEL106sdcj2ZiDvJbjFB1C8ZIRrMfAaYJvDYDvfm 19vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533xM9towQ5yarfchQPrdzPgGy6Gp3oj4Wgp33o5t8bRtiWy44us +IxhpZb5I+isu/q3WkJKYv68GiO0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzgS/2td6aZv6PCyPGzUC9MFNFSEwiA8N+sQ8RSiTHDDez6Mce8NrRO48PKBOKNerjG9Xk14Q== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:f70c:: with SMTP id v12mr6113601wmh.100.1595765410953; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 05:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:::ffff:192.168.1.136? (host81-159-25-183.range81-159.btcentralplus.com. [81.159.25.183]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 14sm13648675wmk.19.2020.07.26.05.10.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 26 Jul 2020 05:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5f1d72a2.1c69fb81.fd060.eaee@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Harkins , emu From: Josh Howlett Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:10:11 +0100 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <156083ec-1787-70f2-98e2-a5aa7ad91a56@lounge.org> References: <62fc76cd-25c8-ecf0-c9d2-52c751201a16@lounge.org> <5f1c54dc.1c69fb81.79e10.408c@mx.google.com> <156083ec-1787-70f2-98e2-a5aa7ad91a56@lounge.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_12F7DA16-08B0-4996-8384-68DC49AA0353_" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 12:10:15 -0000 --_12F7DA16-08B0-4996-8384-68DC49AA0353_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks Dan, the penny has dropped. It might be helpful to expand the discussion in paragraph 2 of section 3 to= make this clearer. The use of language around device enrolment (=E2=80=9Cf= or instance [...] can [...] such as [...] RFC7170=E2=80=9D) is a bit unspec= ific, whereas I believe its a key part of the overall design. I have a further question about the operational model. I believe the absenc= e of an NAI realm implies that the Authenticator (or its AAA server) will b= e unable to disambiguate between different EAP authentication servers. Ther= efore, there can only be single EAP server per network that is able to auth= enticate and enrol devices. Is this your understanding? Josh From: Dan Harkins Sent: 25 July 2020 18:49 To: Josh Howlett; emu Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP =C2=A0 Hi Josh, =C2=A0 TLS-pok is a one-off. It's not for network access, it's to use a trusted public key bootstrapped in any of the ways DPP has defined to authenticate something like TEAP. TLS-pok authenticates the "outer" TEAP tunnel and inside that tunnel a PKCS#10/PKCS#7 exchange happens and the device gets provisioned for network access. The bootstrapped key is never used again. Network access is accomplished using the credentials provisioned by TEAP. =C2=A0 regards, =C2=A0 Dan. On 7/25/20 8:50 AM, Josh Howlett wrote: This may be a stupid question, but I can=E2=80=99t find an explanation in t= he draft or figure it out myself... If the intended application for this TL= S extension is network access, might it be simpler to define a new EAP meth= od that used a similar key exchange? That would avoid touching implementati= ons of TLS and those EAP methods using the extension. =C2=A0 Josh =C2=A0 From: Dan Harkins Sent: 22 July 2020 21:59 To: emu Subject: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hello, =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a new authentication mechanism using out-of-band trust establishment (ala the DPP protocol) into TLS for use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS. This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices using the same boostrapping methods that DPP uses for wireless. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brief presentation. Here's a link to the draft if you're interested: =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-dpp/ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 regards, =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dan. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________ Emu mailing list Emu@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu =C2=A0 --_12F7DA16-08B0-4996-8384-68DC49AA0353_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Thanks Dan, the penny has dropped.

 

It might b= e helpful to expand the discussion in paragraph 2 of section 3 to make this= clearer. The use of language around device enrolment (=E2=80=9Cfor instanc= e [...] can [...] such as [...] RFC7170=E2=80=9D) is a bit unspecific, wher= eas I believe its a key part of the overall design.

 

I have a further question about = the operational model. I believe the absence of an NAI realm implies that t= he Authenticator (or its AAA server) will be unable to disambiguate between= different EAP authentication servers. Therefore, there can only be single = EAP server per network that is able to authenticate and enrol devices. Is t= his your understanding?

 

Josh

&nbs= p;

From: Dan Harkins
Sent: 25 July 2020 18:49
To: Josh Howlett; emu
Subject: Re: [Emu] TLS-pok for EAP

=

 


  Hi Josh,=
=
  TLS-pok is a one-off. It's not for network access, it's to u= se a
trusted public key bootstrapped in any of the ways DPP has= defined
to authenticate something like TEAP. TLS-pok authentic= ates the "outer"
TEAP tunnel and inside that tunnel a= PKCS#10/PKCS#7 exchange happens
and the device gets provisione= d for network access. The bootstrapped
key is never used again.= Network access is accomplished using the
credentials provision= ed by TEAP.

  regards,

  Dan.

On 7/25/20 8:50 AM, Josh H= owlett wrote:

This may be a stupid question, but I= can=E2=80=99t find an explanation in the draft or figure it out myself... = If the intended application for this TLS extension is network access, might= it be simpler to define a new EAP method that used a similar key exchange?= That would avoid touching implementations of TLS and those EAP methods usi= ng the extension.

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>Josh

 

From: Dan Harkins
Sent: 22 July 2020 21:59
To: <= /b>emu
Subject: [Emu] TLS-pok= for EAP

 

 

  Hello,

 

=   Owen and I have a new draft out to introduce a new authentication

mechanism using out-of-band trust establis= hment (ala the DPP protocol)

into TLS fo= r use with a TLS-based EAP method like TEAP or EAP-TLS.

This would enable zero touch provisioning for wired devices= using the

same boostrapping methods tha= t DPP uses for wireless.

 

  I'm on the agenda for Friday to do a brie= f presentation. Here's a

link to the dra= ft if you're interested:

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-friel-tls-eap-= dpp/

 

  regards,

 =

  Dan.

 

 

 

____________________= ___________________________

Emu mailing = list

Emu= @ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu

 

 

 

= --_12F7DA16-08B0-4996-8384-68DC49AA0353_-- From nobody Mon Jul 27 04:46:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8263A18DE; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 04:46:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.10.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <159585040288.27698.12422399930996343322@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 04:46:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 11:46:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : EAP Session-Id Derivation for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, and PEAP Author : Alan DeKok Filename : draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2020-07-27 Abstract: RFC 5247 is updated to define and clarity EAP Session-Id derivation for multiple EAP methods. The derivation of Session-Id was not given for EAP-SIM or EAP-AKA when using the fast reconnect exchange instead of full authentication. The derivation of Session-Id for full authentication is clarified for both EAP-SIM and EAP-AKA. The deriviation of Session-Id for PEAP is also given. The definition for PEAP follows the definition for other TLS-based EAP methods. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 27 10:53:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5D03A1033; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:53:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id@ietf.org, emu-chairs@ietf.org, emu@ietf.org, Mohit Sethi , mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.10.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <159587238156.9877.6621782677112595305@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:53:01 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:53:02 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for all the updates! It looks like there's one "fast re-authentication" that is split across a line (in Section 2.3) and thus escaped the cleanup pass. 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HE1PR07MB3386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4b49fb2c-73d4-4ca9-fda4-08d832d6132f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jul 2020 09:10:29.8098 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: i8UeQc3v5YGNtgNf4VdrgB4OCHE6R5w3nsIXdqo9KY6rEtSr9B+6mJwfMaMys5jNrsvPQt16FujlsCS8w5BR1DhGI7qJWF0AG3EHytV4jUw= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2443 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Preparations for Friday X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 09:10:35 -0000 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCkluc3RlYWQgb2YgdGhlIHVzdWFsIDEyMCBtaW51dGVzLCB3ZSBoYXZlIGEg NTAgbWludXRlIHNlc3Npb24gZm9yIEVNVSBAIA0KSUVURiAxMDggb24gRnJpZGF5LCBKdWx5IDMx c3QuIEhlcmUgaXMgb3VyIGN1cnJlbnQgYWdlbmRhIGZvciB0aGUgbWVldGluZzoNCmh0dHBzOi8v ZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2FnZW5kYS0xMDgtZW11Lw0KDQpBcyB5b3Ugbm90aWNl LCB0aGUgYWdlbmRhIGlzIHJhdGhlciBwYWNrZWQuIFRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIHBvc3NpYmlsaXR5IHRv IA0KZXh0ZW5kIHRoZSBkdXJhdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgc2Vzc2lvbiBhbmQgd2UgaW50ZW5kIHRvIG1h a2UgYSBoYXJkIHN0b3AgDQphZnRlciA1MCBtaW51dGVzLg0KDQpUaGVyZWZvcmUsIHdlIHN0cm9u Z2x5IHJlY29tbWVuZCBhbGwgb2YgeW91IHRvIGZhbWlsaWFyaXplIHlvdXJzZWxmIHdpdGggDQpt ZWV0ZWNobzogDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9ob3cvbWVldGluZ3MvMTA4L3Nlc3Npb24t cGFydGljaXBhbnQtZ3VpZGUvLiBUaGlzIA0Kd2lsbCBob3BlZnVsbHkgZW5zdXJlIHRoYXQgd2Ug ZG9uJ3QgaGF2ZSBhbnkgdGVldGhpbmcgaXNzdWVzIG9uIEZyaWRheS4gDQpTb21lIG9mIHRoZSBt ZWV0ZWNobyBjb250cm9scyBhcmUgbm90IG9idmlvdXM6DQoNCi0gRW50ZXIgdmlkZW8gcXVldWUg IT0gRW50ZXIgYXVkaW8gcXVldWUuIFlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIHJlcXVlc3QgYm90aCBpZiANCnlvdSB3 YW50IHRvIHNoYXJlIGJvdGggYXVkaW8gYW5kIHZpZGVvLg0KLSBJbnN0ZWFkIG9mIG11dGUvdW5t dXRlLCB0aGUgdG9vbCB1c2VzIHNlbmQgYXVkaW8vc3RvcCBhdWRpby4NCg0KWW91IGNhbiBhbHNv IHVzZSB0aGUgbWVldGVjaG8gdGVzdCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCBoZXJlOiANCmh0dHBzOi8vZ2NlLmNv bmYubWVldGVjaG8uY29tL2NvbmZlcmVuY2UvP2dyb3VwPXByb3ZhLg0KDQpXZSBhbHNvIGVuY291 cmFnZSB5b3UgdG8gcmVhZCB0aGUgZHJhZnRzIChhbmQgcmVsYXRlZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgDQpk aXNjdXNzaW9ucykgYmVmb3JlIEZyaWRheS4NCg0KSm9lIGFuZCBNb2hpdA0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jul 28 22:57:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38F63A0FE2 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2020 22:57:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159600224198.18516.16134061225269124829@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 22:57:21 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Milestones changed for emu WG X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 05:57:23 -0000 Changed milestone "WG last call on operational recommendations for large certificate and chain sizes", resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-emu-eaptlscert to milestone. Changed milestone "WG last call on definition of session identifiers for fast re- authentication in EAP-SIM and EAP-AKA", resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id to milestone. Changed milestone "WG adopts initial draft on an EAP method for mutual authentication based on an OOB channel", resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob to milestone. Changed milestone "WG adopts draft providing guidance for use of TLS 1.3 with TLS based EAP methods", resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types to milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/emu/about/ From nobody Wed Jul 29 14:02:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF6C3A0E77; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:02:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <159605654664.26246.12401017377261287579@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:02:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-06.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 21:02:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : EAP Session-Id Derivation for EAP-SIM, EAP-AKA, and PEAP Author : Alan DeKok Filename : draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-06.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2020-07-29 Abstract: RFC 5247 is updated to define and clarity EAP Session-Id derivation for multiple EAP methods. The derivation of Session-Id was not given for EAP-SIM or EAP-AKA when using the fast reconnect exchange instead of full authentication. The derivation of Session-Id for full authentication is clarified for both EAP-SIM and EAP-AKA. The deriviation of Session-Id for PEAP is also given. The definition for PEAP follows the definition for other TLS-based EAP methods. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-emu-eap-session-id-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 29 14:03:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietf.org Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9704B3A0E77; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:03:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: emu@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <159605663257.2147.13867108918305199489@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:03:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] I-D Action: draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types-01.txt X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 21:03:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the EAP Method Update WG of the IETF. Title : TLS-based EAP types and TLS 1.3 Author : Alan DeKok Filename : draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2020-07-29 Abstract: EAP-TLS [RFC5216] is being updated for TLS 1.3 in [EAPTLS]. Many other EAP [RFC3748] and [RFC5247] types also depend on TLS, such as FAST [RFC4851], TTLS [RFC5281], TEAP [RFC7170], and possibly many vendor specific EAP methods. This document updates those methods in order to use the new key derivation methods available in TLS 1.3. Additional changes necessitated by TLS 1.3 are also discussed. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-emu-tls-eap-types-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 29 14:05:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00283A0F04 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:05:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bY4Tzkqjs1XK for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D2B23A0F08 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 14:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.46.130] (24-52-251-6.cable.teksavvy.com [24.52.251.6]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1117B24B; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 21:04:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=deployingradius.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Alan DeKok In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:04:41 -0400 Cc: EMU WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Jorge Vergara X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] jovergar review of draft-dekok-emu-tls-eap-types-02 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 21:05:09 -0000 I've posted a new revision of the document which should address all of = your comments. Thanks again for the detailed review. > On Jun 2, 2020, at 3:29 AM, Jorge Vergara = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, > =20 > I=E2=80=99ve attempted/completed a prototype implementation of = EAP-TLS, PEAP, EAP-TTLS, and TEAP clients using TLS 1.3. EAP-TLS went = smoothly so this boils down to a review of the subject line document = which addresses the rest of the EAP types. I am not necessarily an = expert on all of TLS 1.3 so some of my issues may just be a lack of = understanding =E2=80=93 please point this out if so. > =20 > I had the following questions/issues that may need to be addressed in = this document: > =20 > =E2=80=A2 PEAP Key Material when crypto binding is used. When = PEAP uses crypto binding, it uses a different key material calculation = that consumes inner method key material. This is not addressed in this = document. If we fallback to what is currently defined, we end up with = PEAP=E2=80=99s definition of PRF+, which despite the name is hardcoded = to SHA1. Since it=E2=80=99s hard-coded to SHA1 and doesn=E2=80=99t = technically depend on the TLS-PRF, it technically could continue to be = used. But, is there a desire to update this key material calculation as = well to use the TLS-Exporter as with the rest of the calculations? If = not, I believe it=E2=80=99s still worth a mention, since I see it being = a point of confusion. > =20 > =E2=80=A2 TTLS Implicit Challenge. The TLS-PRF is currently used = to calculate the implicit challenge for CHAP, MS-CHAP, and MS-CHAP-V2 = (non-EAP). This isn=E2=80=99t currently covered in the document. In = TTLS, differing amounts of challenge material are needed based on = whether CHAP, MS-CHAP, or MS-CHAP-V2 is being used. It=E2=80=99s = probably sufficient to define one exporter of a suitable length for all = three and truncate to the amount needed. >=20 > =E2=80=A2 TEAP Compound MAC. The TEAP Compound MAC is currently = defined in terms of the =E2=80=9CMAC function negotiated in TLS 1.2.=E2=80= =9D If TEAP is to remain in this document, I believe this should be = clarified. Here my familiarity with TLS 1.3 becomes an issue as I am not = sure whether this is a simple wording update or if the calculation needs = to be re-defined. (as an aside, I am in favor of TEAP in this document = but understand if the consensus is to separate it) >=20 > =E2=80=A2 TEAP Inner Method Session Key. When an inner = authentication method supports exporting an EMSK, the definition of the = IMSK relies on the TLS-PRF and so needs to be adjusted.=20 >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Section 5 of this document is out of date with the = EAP-TLS document. It mentions that an empty application record is used = to indicate negotiation has finished =E2=80=93 this is now a size 1 0x00 = application record. >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Section 5 further mentions that methods which use = inner tunnel methods should instead begin their inner tunnel negotiation = by sending type specific application data. The inner tunnel is optional = for PEAP, EAP-TTLS, and TEAP, especially if resumption is used.. So = it=E2=80=99s not clear to me how to indicate negotiation has finished in = these methods. I believe the 0x00 octet from EAP-TLS is needed here as = well. > =20 > I appreciate the effort gone into this thus far. I believe the = adjustments needed are fairly simple and after the above issues are = solved I could complete my prototypes. > =20 > Thanks, > Jorge Vergara > _______________________________________________ > Emu mailing list > Emu@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu From nobody Wed Jul 29 17:21:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE353A0AC5 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jusAWDHboysL for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 754543A0AC4 for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 06U0LVBN002531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2020 20:21:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 17:21:30 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: emu@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200730002130.GN92412@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] bootstrapped TLS authentication and TLS key schedule X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 00:21:38 -0000 Hi all, I'm not 100% sure if I'll be present for the whole session on Friday, so just in case I'm not: it looks like there's a figure in the slides to adjust the TLS 1.3 key schedule and put another input slot in place. I don't expect any of these comments to be a big surprise (especially given the chair overlap!), but mention them just to be sure that everyone's on the same page: please coordinate with the TLS WG if there are key schedule changes, and the TLS WG would rather there not be a proliferation of key schedule changes. We had some work presented yesterday on a TLS "extended key schedule" and it is looking fairly likely that we'll end up with a generic "one place to shove extra stuff in" that can take multiple different "extra stuff" at once. I'd be surprised if that wasn't workable here, so please keep an eye out for it. Thanks, Ben From nobody Thu Jul 30 06:44:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F683A1152 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xORzTR5T7sx9 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.goatley.com (www.goatley.com [198.137.202.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C61913A1160 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trixy.bergandi.net (cpe-76-176-14-122.san.res.rr.com [76.176.14.122]) by wwwlocal.goatley.com (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTP id <0QEA0SVD1BIWAX@wwwlocal.goatley.com> for emu@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 08:44:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Dans-MacBook-Pro.local ([69.12.173.8]) by trixy.bergandi.net (PMDF V6.7-x01 #2433) with ESMTPSA id <0QEA00D6LBIEFD@trixy.bergandi.net> for emu@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net ([69.12.173.8] EXTERNAL) (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) with TLS/SSL by trixy.bergandi.net ([10.0.42.18]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:44:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 06:44:55 -0700 From: Dan Harkins In-reply-to: <20200730002130.GN92412@kduck.mit.edu> To: emu@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (recv=trixy.bergandi.net, send-ip=69.12.173.8) X-PMAS-External-Auth: 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net [69.12.173.8] (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) References: <20200730002130.GN92412@kduck.mit.edu> X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [200729] (trixy.bergandi.net) X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] bootstrapped TLS authentication and TLS key schedule X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:44:58 -0000   Hi Ben, On 7/29/20 5:21 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm not 100% sure if I'll be present for the whole session on Friday, so > just in case I'm not: it looks like there's a figure in the slides to > adjust the TLS 1.3 key schedule and put another input slot in place. > I don't expect any of these comments to be a big surprise (especially given > the chair overlap!), but mention them just to be sure that everyone's on the > same page: please coordinate with the TLS WG if there are key schedule > changes, and the TLS WG would rather there not be a proliferation of key > schedule changes. We had some work presented yesterday on a TLS "extended > key schedule" and it is looking fairly likely that we'll end up with a > generic "one place to shove extra stuff in" that can take multiple > different "extra stuff" at once. I'd be surprised if that wasn't workable > here, so please keep an eye out for it.   Indeed. Owen and I modeled the changes from draft-jhoyla-tls-extended-key-schedule. I did notice the discussion in TLS a couple days ago to perhaps do this kind of key injection differently. No matter how it's done, we can use it. A generic place that "extra stuff" can be injected will work just fine.   We've been in touch with the people in TLS that get ruffled feathers when people mess with the key schedule and we will continue to stay in touch. (If you noticed Jonathan did mention bootstrapping in his slides as another need for an importer).   The only thing that will be affected by a change from the specifics of draft-joyla to a generic "extra stuff" will be the running code but that can change too.   regards,   Dan. 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exng6.org.aalto.fi ([fe80::3dc2:a1e7:902b:1296%17]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.003; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 22:04:51 +0300 From: Aura Tuomas To: Dave Thaler , "emu@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 Thread-Index: AQHWQRs12tI9p4psOky4e/9jLoto4KkgxhGA Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:04:51 +0000 Message-ID: <7af0b917105f4a1eabfca39c0c023a1b@aalto.fi> References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US, fi-FI Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.233.0.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SASI-RCODE: 200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aalto.fi; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; s=its18; bh=ZEHzBQOWlxkd7mOOWBiSp+LA6TzggW+1NRua99ovtoU=; b=jLkiRKK2McgldovG9hGaeDE1gSKUfF5hgl7fjgSBO7prGIyyReFkTW5C8znzhMhXXKKYB58YsXnyz4mS24MxOF3eL3mCWdL2QV3AoiZtyoDxr607ca7WvzLnL5Vz6k51mbF5dTWQPj/cUP9NR6B4keKkmbdrbJ6QqM2tzdsJO6un16/xms8FCHQAc+7zcIbDRZRVqgDLxh9IBUR9G5FNLmz3G5B2w8f5WcClRrJA+bHKmg5hQNaLZ0mP0rcagCW1DBP2wQf/jF7XKAOAvKXJh/vYDx9thsLa1Oe9sSfgxxCFctr3Z12A6ftW/GCYNIrZK2G0jW8xAyximIQVtc6vQg== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 19:05:04 -0000 RGF2ZSwgdGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB0aGUgdGhvcm91Z2ggcmV2aWV3LiBJdCBoZWxwZWQgdG8gd2Vl ZCBvdXQgYW55IHZhZ3VlIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIHRoYXQgY291bGQgbGF0ZXIgYmVjb21lIHN0dW1i bGluZyBibG9ja3MuIFdlIGluY29ycG9yYXRlZCBtYXkgY2hhbmdlcyBiYXNlZCBvbiB5b3VyIGNv bW1lbnRzIGFscmVhZHkgaW4gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1lbXUtZWFwLW5vb2ItMDIgKGJvdGggdGhlIGNv 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emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98AA3A0CB8 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:09:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=salowey-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XpHtCYJosuqh for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com (mail-qk1-x735.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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bh=8wY6c4htfEqgsnRMFmzhfd8s50IybiQt1ZnpcrkDq5c=; b=jyVXzpgQEMvizvcqbH/X1HXnzj3TJOe1wYchtP/nM2Wzu8LdmhL6C3tZvKkIeO+ia1 bnz0xnAotNT0W0AB9oftgKZvH4/SvgsWvFhfXmbtsu37sYEN7uyPw5YTouxgVYaWCd4y qKe2MrEzig39UebwUzqFDNvZFktMZNMPk7mvDP5li7KcnCa7cceXa8tbr6u1cxXcB8fk D64kQrzBTNvtiUPg1DH4xObc6g2Vqgzx7z7oTFuLZBy4ujXLpylaMnufdEEUSx4F6Rhd +cwII7t4Q73Wvc3mCko1lS4gxPBZo8Wci2O8flDRGwFGX/TmehkTqzt3Z0BRMt2XUceB qbiA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533mEuXgHyHyvt/3LF9JBjXTjZlAF84akV2jParkSmZQzsViAH+2 KILK0anM4ecuN5Eo6kqeCEs89x9kDQfG3aHX6vXXOy08O9U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxvCwEtgbN2lkr7ZBCASXuG0drwckfXTdYLAaFrMrkFtZlv8QSuxrvF+l2wdb/foo8JguZn5qLZ6wmHjxzOB4s= X-Received: by 2002:a37:b942:: with SMTP id j63mr2284944qkf.138.1596168581658; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:09:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Joseph Salowey Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 21:09:30 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mohit Sethi M Cc: "emu@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004fcfb505abb4f5a0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Preparations for Friday X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 04:09:46 -0000 --0000000000004fcfb505abb4f5a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We will also need a note taker. If you are willing to take minutes, please contact the chairs. Link for notes (CodiMD) https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-108-emu Link to attend session (requires registration) https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf108/?group=emu&short=&item=1 On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 2:10 AM Mohit Sethi M wrote: > Dear all, > > Instead of the usual 120 minutes, we have a 50 minute session for EMU @ > IETF 108 on Friday, July 31st. Here is our current agenda for the meeting: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-108-emu/ > > As you notice, the agenda is rather packed. There is no possibility to > extend the duration of the session and we intend to make a hard stop > after 50 minutes. > > Therefore, we strongly recommend all of you to familiarize yourself with > meetecho: > https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/108/session-participant-guide/. This > will hopefully ensure that we don't have any teething issues on Friday. > Some of the meetecho controls are not obvious: > > - Enter video queue != Enter audio queue. You have to request both if > you want to share both audio and video. > - Instead of mute/unmute, the tool uses send audio/stop audio. > > You can also use the meetecho test environment here: > https://gce.conf.meetecho.com/conference/?group=prova. > > We also encourage you to read the drafts (and related mailing list > discussions) before Friday. > > Joe and Mohit > > > _______________________________________________ > Emu mailing list > Emu@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu > --0000000000004fcfb505abb4f5a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We will also need a note taker.=C2=A0 If you are will= ing to take minutes, please contact the chairs.=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= /div>
Link for notes (CodiMD)=C2=A0
Link to attend session (requires registration)


=
On Tue, Ju= l 28, 2020 at 2:10 AM Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:<= br>
Dear all,

Instead of the usual 120 minutes, we have a 50 minute session for EMU @ IETF 108 on Friday, July 31st. Here is our current agenda for the meeting:<= br> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-108-emu/=

As you notice, the agenda is rather packed. There is no possibility to
extend the duration of the session and we intend to make a hard stop
after 50 minutes.

Therefore, we strongly recommend all of you to familiarize yourself with meetecho:
https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/10= 8/session-participant-guide/. This
will hopefully ensure that we don't have any teething issues on Friday.=
Some of the meetecho controls are not obvious:

- Enter video queue !=3D Enter audio queue. You have to request both if you want to share both audio and video.
- Instead of mute/unmute, the tool uses send audio/stop audio.

You can also use the meetecho test environment here:
https://gce.conf.meetecho.com/conference/?gro= up=3Dprova.

We also encourage you to read the drafts (and related mailing list
discussions) before Friday.

Joe and Mohit


_______________________________________________
Emu mailing list
Emu@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emu
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2020 10:25:52 +0300 Received: from exng6.org.aalto.fi (130.233.223.25) by exng7.org.aalto.fi (130.233.223.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1979.3; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:25:52 +0300 Received: from exng6.org.aalto.fi ([fe80::3dc2:a1e7:902b:1296]) by exng6.org.aalto.fi ([fe80::3dc2:a1e7:902b:1296%17]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.003; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 10:25:52 +0300 From: Aura Tuomas To: "emu@ietf.org" CC: Dave Thaler , Carsten Bormann , Benjamin Kaduk , Mohit Sethi M Thread-Topic: [Emu] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 Thread-Index: AQHWQRs12tI9p4psOky4e/9jLoto4KkCj4WwgB8E0fA= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 07:25:52 +0000 Message-ID: <45683a4180ab4ae9ac7431836c44ee75@aalto.fi> References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> <962.1594228341@localhost> <5653_1594474840_5F09C157_5653_174_1_DBE32082-A1B3-4D70-AD21-322AFFCE525A@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: 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aWQsIHRoaXMgaXMgd29ydGggZGlzY3Vzc2luZyBhdCB0aGUgbWVldGluZyBzaW5jZSBpdCB3b3Vs ZCByZXN1bHQgaW4gYSBsYXJnZSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIEVBUC1OT09CIGltcGxl bWVudGF0aW9ucy4gDQoNCkNlcnRhaW5seSENCkkganVzdCB3YW50ZWQgdG8gbWFrZSBzdXJlIHlv dSBkb27igJl0IG1ha2UgeW91ciBkZWNpc2lvbiBmb3IgdGhlIHdyb25nIHJlYXNvbnMuDQoNCkdy w7zDn2UsIENhcnN0ZW4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCkVtdSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkVtdUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9lbXUNCg== From nobody Fri Jul 31 00:51:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8BA3A1027 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:51:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9nMS9xB_KfCe for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71D5E3A101C for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BHzxQ3f3mz17qC; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:51:22 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <45683a4180ab4ae9ac7431836c44ee75@aalto.fi> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:51:21 +0200 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" , Dave Thaler , Benjamin Kaduk , Mohit Sethi M X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 617874681.92006-c265477f8c942d90f0222f0679afbacf Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> <962.1594228341@localhost> <5653_1594474840_5F09C157_5653_174_1_DBE32082-A1B3-4D70-AD21-322AFFCE525A@tzi.org> <45683a4180ab4ae9ac7431836c44ee75@aalto.fi> To: Aura Tuomas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 07:51:27 -0000 On 2020-07-31, at 09:25, Aura Tuomas wrote: >=20 > That is, my biggest concern with both JSON and CBOR is (4) the lack of = canonical binary serialization. IN EAP-NOOB, we need to receive a = serialized data message, extract some fields and subtrees, compose an = HMAC input out of these parts of the data, and reliably compute always = the same HMAC on it. The easy but flawed implementation would be to = decode the received message, extract the selected parts, and then = re-encode them, but the lack of canonical encoding means that the = resulting byte string could be different in different encoder/decoder = implementations. rfc7049bis (in IETF last call, ends 2020-08-14) provides rules for = deterministic encoding (called canonical in RFC 7049). I am not a big fan of protocols that require its use, but if that is = your design, CBOR has the support. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jul 31 06:21:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970C33A133D for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 06:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hHT_V925PMct for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 06:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CBCB3A0C73 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 06:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BJ7GP5P3tzyNR; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 15:21:33 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 15:21:33 +0200 Cc: "emu@ietf.org" , Dave Thaler , Benjamin Kaduk , Mohit Sethi M X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 617894493.274493-c2a084be8e563885af8e2725e7df37be Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <159200881222.13853.13790945720958773822@ietfa.amsl.com> <962.1594228341@localhost> <5653_1594474840_5F09C157_5653_174_1_DBE32082-A1B3-4D70-AD21-322AFFCE525A@tzi.org> <45683a4180ab4ae9ac7431836c44ee75@aalto.fi> To: Aura Tuomas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir early review of draft-ietf-emu-eap-noob-01 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:21:43 -0000 The point that came up in the discussion is how deterministic encoding = would work with the extension points. I said that it is easy to isolate extension points via encapsulation of = an encoded CBOR data item in a byte string =E2=80=94 that causes a = generic decoder to hand up that byte string (which can then be decoded = separately, and which can go into a signature input unchanged). Tuomas noted that the extension points are not very clearly delineated = in the document. My personal recommendation would be to make those very = explicit (*). I maybe didn=E2=80=99t understand part of the discussion; it seemed that = you currently require something of your JSON libraries that is much less = widely implemented than canonical/deterministic encoding in CBOR = libraries. I do understand that this change requires work in implementations. I = cannot comment on whether getting this right or getting this done = quickly is more important. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) My personal recommendation would also be to define the data = structures and their extension points using some formal technique. = Independent of whether they are JSON or CBOR, CDDL (RFC 8610) fits the = bill. > On 2020-07-31, at 09:51, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On 2020-07-31, at 09:25, Aura Tuomas wrote: >>=20 >> That is, my biggest concern with both JSON and CBOR is (4) the lack = of canonical binary serialization. IN EAP-NOOB, we need to receive a = serialized data message, extract some fields and subtrees, compose an = HMAC input out of these parts of the data, and reliably compute always = the same HMAC on it. The easy but flawed implementation would be to = decode the received message, extract the selected parts, and then = re-encode them, but the lack of canonical encoding means that the = resulting byte string could be different in different encoder/decoder = implementations. >=20 > rfc7049bis (in IETF last call, ends 2020-08-14) provides rules for = deterministic encoding (called canonical in RFC 7049). > I am not a big fan of protocols that require its use, but if that is = your design, CBOR has the support. >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 From nobody Fri Jul 31 07:01:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7403A0B53 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 07:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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2020 07:16:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1T8O5drndkhQ for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 07:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta2.chinamobile.com (cmccmta2.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6E93A13BE for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 07:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.11]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app08-12008 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee85f2427b919c-55675; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 22:16:26 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee85f2427b919c-55675 X-RM-TagInfo: emlType=0 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmcc-PC (unknown[10.2.49.172]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr06-12006 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee65f2427b877c-ae8a4; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 22:16:26 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee65f2427b877c-ae8a4 Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 22:16:24 +0800 From: "Meiling Chen" To: emu X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2020073122162433543519@chinamobile.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart760022736642_=----" Archived-At: Subject: [Emu] Request For Comments of draft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:16:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart760022736642_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsLA0KSXQncyBhIHBpdHkgdGhhdCBJIGRpZG4ndCBtYWtlIGEgc3BlZWNoIHRoaXMgdGlt ZSBiZWNhdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBsaW1pdGVkIHRpbWUsIHNvIEkgaG9wZSB0byBnZXQgbW9yZSBjb21t ZW50cyBpbiB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Lg0KbXkgZHJhZnQgVVJMOiBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFj a2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1jaGVuLWVtdS1lYXAtdGxzLWlicy8gDQpJbiBteSBkcmFm dCBJIHByb3Bvc2UgYSBtZXRob2Qgb2YgaWRlbnRpdHkgYXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gdXNlZCBpbiBF QVAtVExTIGFzIGFuIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBvZiB0aGUgdHJhZGl0aW9uYWwgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgdHlw ZS4NClRoZSByZWFzb24gaXMgdGhhdCBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZS1iYXNlZCBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBt YXkgbm90IGJlIHN1aXRhYmxlIGZvciByZXN0cmljdGVkIGVudmlyb25tZW50LCBhbmQgbXkgZHJh ZnQgaXMgYmFzZWQgb24gUkZDIDY1MDcgYW5kIFJGQyA3MjUwLg0KDQp3ZSBmb2N1cyBvbiBkZXNj cmliaW5nIEVBUC1UTFMxLjIgYW5kIEVBUC1UTFMxLjMgZXh0ZW5kcyByYXcgcHVibGljIGtleSBp biBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBwcm9jZWR1cmUuIHRoZSBwZWVyIGNhbiB1c2UgdGhlIHByaXZhdGUg a2V5IGZvciBzaWduYXR1cmUsIGFuZCBvdGhlciBwZWVyIHVzZSBpdHMnIHJhdyBwdWJsaWMga2V5 IHRvIHZlcmlmeSB0aGUgc2lnbmF0dXJlLCBpZiB2ZXJpZmVkIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSwgaXQgaW5k aWNhdGVzIHRoYXQgdGhlIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGhhcyBwYXNzZWQuDQoNCkkgcmVhbGx5IG5l ZWQgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cyBpZiB5b3UgYXJlIGFsc28gaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0 ICwgYW5kIGNvLWF1dGhvcnMgYXJlIHdlbGNvbWUuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCk1laWxpbmcuDQo= ------=_001_NextPart760022736642_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A
= Hi all,
  • <= p data-group=3D"1-1" class=3D"src grammarSection" style=3D"box-sizing: bor= der-box; margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; line-height: 2= 0px;">It's a pity that I didn't make a speech this time because of the lim= ited time, so I hope to get more comments in the mailing list.

    • my draft URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-chen-emu-eap-tls-ibs/ 

In my draft I propose a method = of identity authentication used in EAP-TLS as an extension of the traditio= nal certificate type.
The reason is that certificate-based= authentication may not be suitable for restricted environment, and my dra= ft is based on RFC 6507 and RFC 7250.

we focus on describing EAP-TLS1.2 and EAP-TLS1.3 extends raw public key= in authentication procedure. the peer can use the private key for signatu= re, and other peer use its' raw public key to verify the signature, if ver= ifed successfully, it indicates that the authentication has passed.=

I really need your comments if you are also i= nterested in this draft , and co-authors are welcome.

Thanks,
Meiling.
=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart760022736642_=------ From nobody Fri Jul 31 09:31:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emu@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2523A0AD9 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:31:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESKxNpOTjbRr for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6191B3A0A2C for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:30:45 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Mohit Sethi M' , CC: 'Benjamin Kaduk' , 'Eric Rescorla' References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 09:30:43 -0700 Message-ID: <045301d66757$f1a0c7f0$d4e257d0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0454_01D6671D.45430160" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQKU+za7jsbb79qc1fYt8rWIA46Hp6ektoFQ X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emu] Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3 X-BeenThere: emu@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "EAP Methods Update \(EMU\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:31:09 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0454_01D6671D.45430160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok =E2=80=93 so this issue was raised at IETF 102. (presentation = https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/102/slides/slides-102-emu-eap-tls-with-t= ls-13-00) =20 Just reading the slides is not telling me what was the problem. I think = I am going to need to hear the audio of the presentation. I have an = extremely vague memory that there was an OpenSSL problem involved here = but I would not swear to that. You might be a better description either = from John Mattsson or Jouni. =20 From: Mohit Sethi M =20 Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 7:09 AM To: emu@ietf.org Cc: Benjamin Kaduk ; Jim Schaad ; = Eric Rescorla Subject: Commitment Message handling in EAP-TLS 1.3 =20 Dear all, Thanks all for the discussion on the commitment message. draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-10 = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-10) in figure 2 = shows the ticket establishment and commitment message: EAP Peer EAP Server =20 EAP-Request/ <-------- Identity EAP-Response/ Identity (Privacy-Friendly) --------> EAP-Request/ EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS <-------- (TLS Start) EAP-Response/ EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (TLS ClientHello) --------> EAP-Request/ EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (TLS ServerHello, TLS EncryptedExtensions, TLS CertificateRequest, TLS Certificate, TLS CertificateVerify, <-------- TLS Finished) EAP-Response/ EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (TLS Certificate, TLS CertificateVerify, TLS Finished) --------> EAP-Request/ EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS (TLS NewSessionTicket, <-------- Commitment Message) EAP-Response/ EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS --------> <-------- EAP-Success and the relevant text on commitment message:=20 When an EAP server has sent its last handshake message (Finished or a Post-Handshake), it commits to not sending any more handshake messages by sending a Commitment Message. The Commitment Message is a TLS record with application data 0x00 (i.e. a TLS record with TLSPlaintext.type =3D application_data, TLSPlaintext.length =3D 1, = and TLSPlaintext.fragment =3D 0x00). Note that the length of the = plaintext is greater than the corresponding TLSPlaintext.length due to the inclusion of TLSInnerPlaintext.type and any padding supplied by the sender. EAP server implementations MUST set TLSPlaintext.fragment to 0x00, but EAP peer implementations MUST accept any application data as a Commitment Message from the EAP server to not send any more handshake messages. The Commitment Message may be sent in the same EAP-Request as the last handshake record or in a separate EAP- Request. Sending the Commitment Message in a separate EAP-Request adds an additional round-trip, but may be necessary in TLS implementations that only implement a subset of TLS 1.3. I couldn't parse the comments about the "KeyUpdate" message. Perhaps = having the discussion over email will help me understand the issue.=20 --Mohit =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0454_01D6671D.45430160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok = =E2=80=93 so this issue was raised at IETF 102.=C2=A0 (presentation https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/102/slides/slides-102-= emu-eap-tls-with-tls-13-00)

 

Just reading = the slides is not telling me what was the problem.=C2=A0 I think I am = going to need to hear the audio of the presentation.=C2=A0 I have an = extremely vague memory that there was an OpenSSL problem involved here = but I would not swear to that.=C2=A0 You might be a better description = either from John Mattsson or Jouni.

 

From: Mohit Sethi M = <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com>
Sent: Friday, July 31, = 2020 7:09 AM
To: emu@ietf.org
Cc: Benjamin Kaduk = <kaduk@mit.edu>; Jim Schaad <ietf@augustcellars.com>; Eric = Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Subject: Commitment Message = handling in EAP-TLS 1.3

 

Dear = all,

Thanks all for the discussion on the commitment = message.

draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-10 (https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-emu-eap-tls13-10) in figure 2 shows = the ticket establishment and commitment = message:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP =
Peer=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 EAP =
Server
 
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0EAP-Request/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<--------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Identity
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Response/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Identity =
(Privacy-Friendly)=C2=A0 =
-------->
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Request/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0EAP-Type=3D=
EAP-TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<--------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (TLS =
Start)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Response/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (TLS =
ClientHello)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 =
-------->
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Request/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (TLS =
ServerHello,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 TLS =
EncryptedExtensions,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0TLS =
CertificateRequest,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLS =
Certificate,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLS =
CertificateVerify,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 =
<--------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLS Finished)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Response/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (TLS =
Certificate,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLS =
CertificateVerify,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLS =
Finished)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
-------->
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Request/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (TLS =
NewSessionTicket,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 <--------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Commitment =
Message)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Response/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
EAP-Type=3DEAP-TLS=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
-------->
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =
<--------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 EAP-Success

and the relevant text on commitment message: = 

When an EAP server =
has sent its last handshake message (Finished or =
a
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Post-Handshake), it commits to not =
sending any more handshake
=C2=A0=C2=A0 messages by =
sending a Commitment Message.=C2=A0 The Commitment Message =
is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 a TLS record with application data =
0x00 (i.e. a TLS record with
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
TLSPlaintext.type =3D application_data, TLSPlaintext.length =3D 1, =
and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLSPlaintext.fragment =3D =
0x00).=C2=A0 Note that the length of the =
plaintext
=C2=A0=C2=A0 is greater than the =
corresponding TLSPlaintext.length due to =
the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 inclusion of =
TLSInnerPlaintext.type and any padding supplied by =
the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 sender.=C2=A0 EAP server =
implementations MUST set TLSPlaintext.fragment =
to
=C2=A0=C2=A0 0x00, but EAP peer implementations =
MUST accept any application data
=C2=A0=C2=A0 as a =
Commitment Message from the EAP server to not send any =
more
=C2=A0=C2=A0 handshake messages.=C2=A0 The =
Commitment Message may be sent in the =
same
=C2=A0=C2=A0 EAP-Request as the last handshake =
record or in a separate EAP-
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Request.=C2=A0 Sending the Commitment Message in a separate =
EAP-Request
=C2=A0=C2=A0 adds an additional =
round-trip, but may be necessary in =
TLS
=C2=A0=C2=A0 implementations that only =
implement a subset of TLS 1.3.

I couldn't parse the comments about the = "KeyUpdate" message. Perhaps having the discussion over email = will help me understand the issue. =

--Mohit

 

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