From exim@www1.ietf.org  Thu Apr  1 15:31:16 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00085
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:31:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B98pr-0004yG-OE
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:30:48 -0500
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i31KUlYG019100
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:30:47 -0500
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B98pr-0004x8-Dw; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:30:47 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B92KG-0007om-Cw
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:33:44 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12004
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:33:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B92K4-0002qs-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:33:32 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B92Iy-0002fs-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:32:25 -0500
Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B92Hy-0002Pv-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:31:22 -0500
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i31DUoO03750
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:30:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6NBCX>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:30:51 -0500
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340AB15C8B@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:30:50 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no 
	version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working group
wants to take this on?

This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I think this
is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with some
aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is not
sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be too
opaque to be useful. 

Sharon
-----Original Message-----
From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif


Hi Dan,

At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
>Kaj,
>
>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change my 
>mind.
>
>Two comments:
>1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit about 
>what
>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a 
>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing 
>and physical modules identification'?


I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect the
content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
adding
new objects to MIBs over time is that
a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a problem
    with advancing the spec over time
b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont want
    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the number So, similar
as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this
generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for a
while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
discussions
there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).

>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
>related
>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can you 
>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of 
>the cleiCode object freely available?

You're right, some of that did come up before.
My understanding is the following:
- the references point to documents by different standards groups,
   and i think are available for a small fee at www.atis.org
- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
In previous discussion it was pointed out that
while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object as
proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing (no
CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.

Kaj




>Thanks and Regards,
>
>Dan
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf 
> > Of Kaj Tesink
> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
> > To: entmib@ietf.org
> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
> >
> >
> > all,
> >
> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm
> > ib-00.txt
> >
> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
> > in order to move this forward the WG would need
> > to accept this as a formal work item.
> >
> > so we'd appreciate comments on
> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this work
> > b) any technical comments
> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative 
> > support, restating this or any new/additional views would be helpful
> >
> > kaj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
> > >To: entmib@ietf.org
> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >all,
> > >
> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet
> > >discussed a while ago, supporting
> > >- manufacturing date
> > >- additional entity info
> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave
> > >to convey information such as CLEIs.
> > >i do recall that there were some different
> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding
> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but
> > >please read it over and provide any comments.
> > >
> > >kaj
> >


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Thu Apr  1 16:19:28 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00080
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:31:15 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B98pr-0004x8-Dw; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:30:47 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B92KG-0007om-Cw
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:33:44 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12004
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:33:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B92K4-0002qs-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:33:32 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B92Iy-0002fs-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:32:25 -0500
Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B92Hy-0002Pv-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 08:31:22 -0500
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i31DUoO03750
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:30:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6NBCX>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:30:51 -0500
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340AB15C8B@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 08:30:50 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no 
	version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working group
wants to take this on?

This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I think this
is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with some
aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is not
sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be too
opaque to be useful. 

Sharon
-----Original Message-----
From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif


Hi Dan,

At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
>Kaj,
>
>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change my 
>mind.
>
>Two comments:
>1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit about 
>what
>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a 
>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing 
>and physical modules identification'?


I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect the
content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
adding
new objects to MIBs over time is that
a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a problem
    with advancing the spec over time
b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont want
    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the number So, similar
as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this
generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for a
while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
discussions
there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).

>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
>related
>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can you 
>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of 
>the cleiCode object freely available?

You're right, some of that did come up before.
My understanding is the following:
- the references point to documents by different standards groups,
   and i think are available for a small fee at www.atis.org
- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
In previous discussion it was pointed out that
while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object as
proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing (no
CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.

Kaj




>Thanks and Regards,
>
>Dan
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf 
> > Of Kaj Tesink
> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
> > To: entmib@ietf.org
> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
> >
> >
> > all,
> >
> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm
> > ib-00.txt
> >
> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
> > in order to move this forward the WG would need
> > to accept this as a formal work item.
> >
> > so we'd appreciate comments on
> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this work
> > b) any technical comments
> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative 
> > support, restating this or any new/additional views would be helpful
> >
> > kaj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
> > >To: entmib@ietf.org
> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >all,
> > >
> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet
> > >discussed a while ago, supporting
> > >- manufacturing date
> > >- additional entity info
> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave
> > >to convey information such as CLEIs.
> > >i do recall that there were some different
> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding
> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but
> > >please read it over and provide any comments.
> > >
> > >kaj
> >


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Thu Apr  1 18:28:20 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09001
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:28:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B99YU-0008BA-Ll; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:16:54 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B96TM-0001Op-KB
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:59:24 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24106
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:59:10 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B96TA-0007QS-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:59:12 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B96SG-0007LG-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:58:16 -0500
Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B96RL-0007Ah-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:57:19 -0500
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i31Hukd01061
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6N25X>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:46 -0500
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340AB16158@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: FW: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:45 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no 
	version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

Apologies if this shows up twice, but I think it got lost.

Sharon

-----Original Message-----
From: Chisholm, Sharon [CAR:0S00:EXCH] 
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:31 AM
To: 'entmib@ietf.org'
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif


hi

Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working group
wants to take this on?

This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I think this
is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with some
aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is not
sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be too
opaque to be useful. 

Sharon
-----Original Message-----
From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif


Hi Dan,

At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
>Kaj,
>
>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change my
>mind.
>
>Two comments:
>1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit about
>what
>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a 
>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing 
>and physical modules identification'?


I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect the
content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
adding
new objects to MIBs over time is that
a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a problem
    with advancing the spec over time
b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont want
    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the number So, similar
as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this
generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for a
while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
discussions
there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).

>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
>related
>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can you 
>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of 
>the cleiCode object freely available?

You're right, some of that did come up before.
My understanding is the following:
- the references point to documents by different standards groups,
   and i think are available for a small fee at www.atis.org
- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
In previous discussion it was pointed out that
while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object as
proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing (no
CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.

Kaj




>Thanks and Regards,
>
>Dan
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf 
> > Of Kaj Tesink
> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
> > To: entmib@ietf.org
> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
> >
> >
> > all,
> >
> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm
> > ib-00.txt
> >
> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
> > in order to move this forward the WG would need
> > to accept this as a formal work item.
> >
> > so we'd appreciate comments on
> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this work
> > b) any technical comments
> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative 
> > support, restating this or any new/additional views would be helpful
> >
> > kaj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
> > >To: entmib@ietf.org
> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >all,
> > >
> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet
> > >discussed a while ago, supporting
> > >- manufacturing date
> > >- additional entity info
> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave
> > >to convey information such as CLEIs.
> > >i do recall that there were some different
> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding
> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but
> > >please read it over and provide any comments.
> > >
> > >kaj
> >


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From mailman-admin@ietf.org  Thu Apr  1 18:45:08 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10052
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:45:08 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B99fK-0002Lx-F1
	for entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:23:58 -0500
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:23:56 -0500
Message-ID: <20040401162356.11029.22455.Mailman@www1.ietf.org>
Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder
From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org
To: entmib-archive@ietf.org
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Ack: no
Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk

This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing
list memberships.  It includes your subscription info and how to use
it to change it or unsubscribe from a list.

You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery
or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
changes.  For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of
the list (for example, entmib-request@ietf.org) containing just the
word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to
you with instructions.

***************************************************************************


                              Note Well

All statements related to the activities of the IETF and addressed to
the IETF are subject to all provisions of Section 10 of RFC 2026,
which grants to the IETF and its participants certain licenses and
rights in such statements. Such statements include verbal statements
in IETF meetings, as well as written and electronic communications
made at any time or place, which are addressed to

        * the IETF plenary session,
        * any IETF working group or portion thereof,
        * the IESG, or any member thereof on behalf of the IESG,
        * the IAB or any member thereof on behalf of the IAB,
        * any IETF mailing list, including the IETF list itself, any
working
            group or design team list, or any other list functioning
under IETF
            auspices,
        * the RFC Editor or the Internet-Drafts function

Statements made outside of an IETF meeting, mailing list or other
function, that are clearly not intended to be input to an IETF
activity, group or function, are not subject to these provisions.

   
***************************************************************************


If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org.  Thanks!

Passwords for entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org:

List                                     Password // URL
----                                     --------  
entmib@ietf.org                          CNIo      
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/entmib/entmib-archive%40lists.ietf.org


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Thu Apr  1 21:10:02 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA23121
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:10:02 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B9BbH-0007Dg-CC
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:27:55 -0500
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i31NRthh027753
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:27:55 -0500
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B99YU-0008BA-Ll; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:16:54 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B96TM-0001Op-KB
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:59:24 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24106
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:59:10 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B96TA-0007QS-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:59:12 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B96SG-0007LG-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:58:16 -0500
Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B96RL-0007Ah-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:57:19 -0500
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i31Hukd01061
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6N25X>; Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:46 -0500
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340AB16158@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: FW: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 12:56:45 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no 
	version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

Apologies if this shows up twice, but I think it got lost.

Sharon

-----Original Message-----
From: Chisholm, Sharon [CAR:0S00:EXCH] 
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:31 AM
To: 'entmib@ietf.org'
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif


hi

Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working group
wants to take this on?

This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I think this
is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with some
aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is not
sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be too
opaque to be useful. 

Sharon
-----Original Message-----
From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif


Hi Dan,

At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
>Kaj,
>
>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change my
>mind.
>
>Two comments:
>1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit about
>what
>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a 
>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing 
>and physical modules identification'?


I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect the
content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
adding
new objects to MIBs over time is that
a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a problem
    with advancing the spec over time
b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont want
    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the number So, similar
as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this
generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for a
while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
discussions
there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).

>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
>related
>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can you 
>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of 
>the cleiCode object freely available?

You're right, some of that did come up before.
My understanding is the following:
- the references point to documents by different standards groups,
   and i think are available for a small fee at www.atis.org
- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
In previous discussion it was pointed out that
while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object as
proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing (no
CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.

Kaj




>Thanks and Regards,
>
>Dan
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf 
> > Of Kaj Tesink
> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
> > To: entmib@ietf.org
> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
> >
> >
> > all,
> >
> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm
> > ib-00.txt
> >
> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
> > in order to move this forward the WG would need
> > to accept this as a formal work item.
> >
> > so we'd appreciate comments on
> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this work
> > b) any technical comments
> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative 
> > support, restating this or any new/additional views would be helpful
> >
> > kaj
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
> > >To: entmib@ietf.org
> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >all,
> > >
> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet
> > >discussed a while ago, supporting
> > >- manufacturing date
> > >- additional entity info
> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave
> > >to convey information such as CLEIs.
> > >i do recall that there were some different
> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding
> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but
> > >please read it over and provide any comments.
> > >
> > >kaj
> >


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Fri Apr  2 16:43:54 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA03152
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:43:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B9UTX-0007ZI-Vt; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:37:11 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B9Ri7-0003wn-Jn
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:40:03 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17393
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:40:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B9Ri6-0001vL-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:40:02 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B9RhH-0001oe-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:39:12 -0500
Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B9Rgc-0001ei-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:38:30 -0500
Received: from shannon.research.telcordia.com (shannon [128.96.81.11])
	by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i32Gc0Id019624;
	Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:38:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from kaj-100.research.telcordia.com (kaj-100.cc.telcordia.com [128.96.71.110])
	by shannon.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03681;
	Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:37:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040402112014.037ebe30@128.96.81.11>
X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:37:53 -0500
To: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
In-Reply-To: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340AB16158@zcard0ka.ca.norte
 l.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (thumper)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_20_30,
	HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_OBLIGATION 
	autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

<html>
hi Sharon,<br>
<br>
At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>hi<br>
<br>
Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working
group<br>
wants to take this on?</blockquote><br>
<br>
i think that question is still pending;<br>
we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the<br>
last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this<br>
since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this
spec:<br>
<br>
<font color="#0000FF"><u><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</a></u></font><blockquote type=cite cite>This is a requirement I've
heard bounced around a few times so I think this<br>
is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with
some<br>
aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is
not<br>
sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be
too<br>
opaque to be useful. </blockquote><br>
<br>
as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were<br>
some good reasons for the high level title, but<br>
i'd be open to other suggestions.<br>
<br>
as for the opaque object, the history is that<br>
the initial proposal based on an octet string<br>
syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility<br>
and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal<br>
by Dave for the current opaque construct, although<br>
some other comments expressed reservations (i believe<br>
by Juergen and Dan). <br>
i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus<br>
dictates. <br>
<br>
kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Sharon<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Kaj Tesink
[<a href="mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM<br>
To: entmib@ietf.org<br>
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Dan,<br>
<br>
At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:<br>
&gt;Kaj,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change
my<br>
&gt;mind.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Two comments:<br>
&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit
about<br>
&gt;what<br>
&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic
a <br>
&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for
manufacturing <br>
&gt;and physical modules identification'?<br>
<br>
<br>
I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect
the<br>
content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with
<br>
adding<br>
new objects to MIBs over time is that<br>
a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a
problem<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time<br>
b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont
want<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the
number So, similar<br>
as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use
this<br>
generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for
a<br>
while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous <br>
discussions<br>
there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).<br>
<br>
&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were
<br>
&gt;related<br>
&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can
you <br>
&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause
of <br>
&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<br>
<br>
You're right, some of that did come up before.<br>
My understanding is the following:<br>
- the references point to documents by different standards groups,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at
<a href="http://www.atis.org/" eudora="autourl">www.atis.org</a><br>
- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code<br>
In previous discussion it was pointed out that<br>
while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to<br>
use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft<br>
in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object
as<br>
proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing
(no<br>
CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.<br>
<br>
Kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;Thanks and Regards,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Dan<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</a>
Behalf <br>
&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org<br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; all,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at
<br>
&gt; &gt;
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm</a><br>
&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error).<br>
&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need<br>
&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on<br>
&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this work<br>
&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments<br>
&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative
<br>
&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional views would be
helpful<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; kaj<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;all,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
Kaj Tesink<br>
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.<br>
331 Newman Springs Road<br>
Red Bank, NJ 07701<br>
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com<br>
Tel: (732) 758-5254<br>
Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>
<br>
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Entmib mailing list<br>
Entmib@ietf.org<br>
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Entmib mailing list<br>
Entmib@ietf.org<br>
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a></blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
<br>
<div>Kaj Tesink</div>
<div>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</div>
<div>331 Newman Springs Road</div>
<div>Red Bank, NJ 07701</div>
<div>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</div>
<div>Tel: (732) 758-5254</div>
<div>Fax: (732) 758-4177</div>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
</html>


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Fri Apr  2 16:44:05 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA03171
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:44:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B9WRj-0001YS-7g
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:43:37 -0500
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i32LhRqI005977
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:43:27 -0500
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B9UTX-0007ZI-Vt; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:37:11 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1B9Ri7-0003wn-Jn
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:40:03 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17393
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:40:01 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B9Ri6-0001vL-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:40:02 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B9RhH-0001oe-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:39:12 -0500
Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1B9Rgc-0001ei-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:38:30 -0500
Received: from shannon.research.telcordia.com (shannon [128.96.81.11])
	by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i32Gc0Id019624;
	Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:38:00 -0500 (EST)
Received: from kaj-100.research.telcordia.com (kaj-100.cc.telcordia.com [128.96.71.110])
	by shannon.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03681;
	Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:37:59 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040402112014.037ebe30@128.96.81.11>
X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:37:53 -0500
To: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
In-Reply-To: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340AB16158@zcard0ka.ca.norte
 l.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (thumper)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_20_30,
	HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_OBLIGATION 
	autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

<html>
hi Sharon,<br>
<br>
At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>hi<br>
<br>
Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working
group<br>
wants to take this on?</blockquote><br>
<br>
i think that question is still pending;<br>
we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the<br>
last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this<br>
since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this
spec:<br>
<br>
<font color="#0000FF"><u><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</a></u></font><blockquote type=cite cite>This is a requirement I've
heard bounced around a few times so I think this<br>
is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with
some<br>
aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is
not<br>
sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be
too<br>
opaque to be useful. </blockquote><br>
<br>
as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were<br>
some good reasons for the high level title, but<br>
i'd be open to other suggestions.<br>
<br>
as for the opaque object, the history is that<br>
the initial proposal based on an octet string<br>
syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility<br>
and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal<br>
by Dave for the current opaque construct, although<br>
some other comments expressed reservations (i believe<br>
by Juergen and Dan). <br>
i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus<br>
dictates. <br>
<br>
kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Sharon<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Kaj Tesink
[<a href="mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</a>]
<br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM<br>
To: entmib@ietf.org<br>
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Dan,<br>
<br>
At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:<br>
&gt;Kaj,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change
my<br>
&gt;mind.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Two comments:<br>
&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit
about<br>
&gt;what<br>
&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic
a <br>
&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for
manufacturing <br>
&gt;and physical modules identification'?<br>
<br>
<br>
I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect
the<br>
content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with
<br>
adding<br>
new objects to MIBs over time is that<br>
a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a
problem<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time<br>
b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont
want<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the
number So, similar<br>
as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use
this<br>
generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for
a<br>
while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous <br>
discussions<br>
there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).<br>
<br>
&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were
<br>
&gt;related<br>
&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can
you <br>
&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause
of <br>
&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<br>
<br>
You're right, some of that did come up before.<br>
My understanding is the following:<br>
- the references point to documents by different standards groups,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at
<a href="http://www.atis.org/" eudora="autourl">www.atis.org</a><br>
- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code<br>
In previous discussion it was pointed out that<br>
while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to<br>
use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft<br>
in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object
as<br>
proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing
(no<br>
CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.<br>
<br>
Kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;Thanks and Regards,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Dan<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</a>
Behalf <br>
&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org<br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; all,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at
<br>
&gt; &gt;
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm</a><br>
&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error).<br>
&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need<br>
&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on<br>
&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this work<br>
&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments<br>
&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative
<br>
&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional views would be
helpful<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; kaj<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;all,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
Kaj Tesink<br>
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.<br>
331 Newman Springs Road<br>
Red Bank, NJ 07701<br>
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com<br>
Tel: (732) 758-5254<br>
Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>
<br>
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Entmib mailing list<br>
Entmib@ietf.org<br>
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Entmib mailing list<br>
Entmib@ietf.org<br>
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a></blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
<br>
<div>Kaj Tesink</div>
<div>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</div>
<div>331 Newman Springs Road</div>
<div>Red Bank, NJ 07701</div>
<div>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</div>
<div>Tel: (732) 758-5254</div>
<div>Fax: (732) 758-4177</div>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
</html>


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Mon Apr  5 15:16:31 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28612
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:16:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BAZZi-0004ui-Pw; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:16:02 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BAZYt-0004ey-Fr
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:15:11 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28480
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:15:08 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BAZYr-0006oB-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:15:09 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BAZTB-0005ZI-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:09:17 -0400
Received: from fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com ([168.127.0.56])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BAZEu-0003Bj-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:54:32 -0400
Received: (from root@localhost)
	by fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) id i35IsQVg001509
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:26 -0500
Received: from fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com (167.254.105.51)
	by fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com 00gAfUmG; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:54:25 CDT
X-Scanned: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:17 -0500 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.21 2004031416 - RELEASE
Received: (from root@localhost)
	by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) id i35IsHit016705
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:17 -0500
Received: from rchemx10.fnc.fujitsu.com (167.254.105.23)
	by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com 00CMFKl1; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:54:15 CDT
Received: by rchemx10.fnc.fujitsu.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
	id <F3F34Z1T>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:17 -0500
Message-ID: <CD16784D66FCA645A78455C95EA328D803351225@rchemx05.fnc.fujitsu.com>
From: "Salyer, Steven" <steven.salyer@fnc.fujitsu.com>
To: "'entmib@ietf.org'" <entmib@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:13 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is important to Fujitsu Network Communications and we want to see it
moved forward ASAP.

Steven C. Salyer
Senior Operations Planner - Telcordia TIRKS/CLEI Coding
Fujitsu Network Communications, Inc.
972-479-3857


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Mon Apr  5 16:10:08 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28615
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:16:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BAZZj-0004v7-4e
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:16:03 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i35JG3cL018905
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:16:03 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BAZZi-0004ui-Pw; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:16:02 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BAZYt-0004ey-Fr
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:15:11 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28480
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:15:08 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BAZYr-0006oB-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:15:09 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BAZTB-0005ZI-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:09:17 -0400
Received: from fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com ([168.127.0.56])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BAZEu-0003Bj-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 14:54:32 -0400
Received: (from root@localhost)
	by fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) id i35IsQVg001509
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:26 -0500
Received: from fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com (167.254.105.51)
	by fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com 00gAfUmG; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:54:25 CDT
X-Scanned: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:17 -0500 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.21 2004031416 - RELEASE
Received: (from root@localhost)
	by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) id i35IsHit016705
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:17 -0500
Received: from rchemx10.fnc.fujitsu.com (167.254.105.23)
	by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com 00CMFKl1; Mon, 05 Apr 2004 13:54:15 CDT
Received: by rchemx10.fnc.fujitsu.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
	id <F3F34Z1T>; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:17 -0500
Message-ID: <CD16784D66FCA645A78455C95EA328D803351225@rchemx05.fnc.fujitsu.com>
From: "Salyer, Steven" <steven.salyer@fnc.fujitsu.com>
To: "'entmib@ietf.org'" <entmib@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:54:13 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72)
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is important to Fujitsu Network Communications and we want to see it
moved forward ASAP.

Steven C. Salyer
Senior Operations Planner - Telcordia TIRKS/CLEI Coding
Fujitsu Network Communications, Inc.
972-479-3857


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Fri Apr  9 18:42:27 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29151
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:42:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BC4hF-0004ZU-6f; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:42:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BC4gN-0004Xt-OU
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:41:12 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29100
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:41:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BC4gI-0002kw-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:41:02 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BC4d6-0002Xd-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:37:46 -0400
Received: from [12.177.67.10] (helo=YORKTOWN.pedestalnetworks.com)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BC4Zn-0002BA-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:34:19 -0400
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8"
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:34:01 -0700
Message-ID: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalnetworks.com>
Thread-Topic: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
thread-index: AcQY+5GSuG802bExTXKtg3y9TFCk8QFhxsrw
From: "Faye Ly" <faye@pedestalnetworks.com>
To: "Kaj Tesink" <kaj@research.telcordia.com>,
        "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>, <entmib@ietf.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
=20
Yes, we have a need for this MIB.  Any chance of getting this done?
=20
-faye

	-----Original Message-----
	From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Kaj Tesink
	Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM
	To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org
	Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
=09
=09
	hi Sharon,
=09
	At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:
=09
=09

		hi
	=09
		Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether
the working group
		wants to take this on?



	i think that question is still pending;
	we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the
	last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this
	since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on
this spec:
=09
=09
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt
=09
=09
=09
=09

		This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few
times so I think this
		is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few
concerns with some
		aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned,
the title is not
		sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data
types might be too
		opaque to be useful.=20



	as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were
	some good reasons for the high level title, but
	i'd be open to other suggestions.
=09
	as for the opaque object, the history is that
	the initial proposal based on an octet string
	syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility
	and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal
	by Dave for the current opaque construct, although
	some other comments expressed reservations (i believe
	by Juergen and Dan).=20
	i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus
	dictates.=20
=09
	kaj
=09
=09
=09
=09

		Sharon
		-----Original Message-----
		From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
		To: entmib@ietf.org
		Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
	=09
	=09
		Hi Dan,
	=09
		At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
		>Kaj,
		>
		>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I
did not change my
		>mind.
		>
		>Two comments:
		>1. I would like the title of the document to be more
explicit about
		>what
		>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is
really too generic a=20
		>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB
Extensions for manufacturing=20
		>and physical modules identification'?
	=09
	=09
		I see what you're trying to do. While this would more
accurately reflect the
		content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The
problem with=20
		adding
		new objects to MIBs over time is that
		a) either you add to the original spec; but this means
there's a problem
		    with advancing the spec over time
		b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is
that you dont want
		    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize
the number So, similar
		as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the
tactic was to use this
		generic title, so that additional functions could still
be added for a
		while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in
previous=20
		discussions
		there were some thoughts about some additional
functions(?).
	=09
		>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not
by me) were=20
		>related
		>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the
CLEI codes. Can you=20
		>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the
REFERENCE clause of=20
		>the cleiCode object freely available?
	=09
		You're right, some of that did come up before.
		My understanding is the following:
		- the references point to documents by different
standards groups,
		   and i think are available for a small fee at
www.atis.org <http://www.atis.org/>=20
		- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
		   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
		In previous discussion it was pointed out that
		while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
		use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
		in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a
dedicated object as
		proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the
whole thing (no
		CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not
supported.
	=09
		Kaj
	=09
	=09
	=09
	=09
		>Thanks and Regards,
		>
		>Dan
		>
		>
		>
		> > -----Original Message-----
		> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On <mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn>
Behalf=20
		> > Of Kaj Tesink
		> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
		> > To: entmib@ietf.org
		> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for
tcif
		> >
		> >
		> > all,
		> >
		> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now
available at=20
		> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm
		> > ib-00.txt
		> >
		> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
		> > in order to move this forward the WG would need
		> > to accept this as a formal work item.
		> >
		> > so we'd appreciate comments on
		> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this
work
		> > b) any technical comments
		> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some
tentative=20
		> > support, restating this or any new/additional views
would be helpful
		> >
		> > kaj
		> >
		> >
		> >
		> >
		> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
		> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
		> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
		> > >To: entmib@ietf.org
		> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
		> > >
		> > >
		> > >all,
		> > >
		> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet
		> > >discussed a while ago, supporting
		> > >- manufacturing date
		> > >- additional entity info
		> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave
		> > >to convey information such as CLEIs.
		> > >i do recall that there were some different
		> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding
		> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but
		> > >please read it over and provide any comments.
		> > >
		> > >kaj
		> >
	=09
	=09
		_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	=09
		Kaj Tesink
		Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
		331 Newman Springs Road
		Red Bank, NJ 07701
		Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
		Tel: (732) 758-5254
		Fax: (732) 758-4177
	=09
		_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	=09
	=09
		_______________________________________________
		Entmib mailing list
		Entmib@ietf.org
		https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
	=09
		_______________________________________________
		Entmib mailing list
		Entmib@ietf.org
		https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

	Kaj Tesink
	Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
	331 Newman Springs Road
	Red Bank, NJ 07701
	Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
	Tel: (732) 758-5254
	Fax: (732) 758-4177

	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing
list Entmib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Yes,=20
we have a need for this MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this=20
done?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>-faye</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Kaj=20
  Tesink<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Sharon=20
  Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Entmib] Re: Entity mib =
support=20
  for tcif<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>hi Sharon,<BR><BR>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 =
-0500,=20
  Sharon Chisholm wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">hi<BR><BR>Where are we in this =
discussion?=20
    Have we decided whether the working group<BR>wants to take this=20
  on?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>i think that question is still pending;<BR>we =
asked=20
  for input and expressions of interest well before the<BR>last ietf =
meeting but=20
  there has not been much traffic on this<BR>since that request. so let =
me=20
  repeat the request for input on this spec:<BR><BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><U><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-=
00.txt"=20
  =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplmib-00.txt<BR><BR><BR><BR></A></U></FONT>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">This is a requirement I've heard =
bounced=20
    around a few times so I think this<BR>is worth trying to address, =
but like=20
    Dan I have a few concerns with some<BR>aspects of the proposed =
solution. As=20
    he has mentioned, the title is not<BR>sufficiently descriptive. In =
addition,=20
    I think the data types might be too<BR>opaque to be useful.=20
  </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there=20
  were<BR>some good reasons for the high level title, but<BR>i'd be open =
to=20
  other suggestions.<BR><BR>as for the opaque object, the history is =
that<BR>the=20
  initial proposal based on an octet string<BR>syntax invoked a =
discussion about=20
  flexibility<BR>and some other aspects, and resulted in a =
proposal<BR>by Dave=20
  for the current opaque construct, although<BR>some other comments =
expressed=20
  reservations (i believe<BR>by Juergen and Dan). <BR>i'm willing to go =
with=20
  whatever the rough consensus<BR>dictates. <BR><BR>kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">Sharon<BR>-----Original=20
    Message-----<BR>From: Kaj Tesink [<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com"=20
    eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</A>] <BR>Sent: =
Wednesday,=20
    February 11, 2004 10:25 AM<BR>To: entmib@ietf.org<BR>Subject: RE: =
[Entmib]=20
    Re: Entity mib support for tcif<BR><BR><BR>Hi Dan,<BR><BR>At 10:03 =
PM=20
    2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) =
wrote:<BR>&gt;Kaj,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I=20
    was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change=20
    my<BR>&gt;mind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Two comments:<BR>&gt;1. I would like =
the=20
    title of the document to be more explicit =
about<BR>&gt;what<BR>&gt;is really=20
    provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a =
<BR>&gt;title -=20
    what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing=20
    <BR>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<BR><BR><BR>I see what =
you're=20
    trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect =
the<BR>content, there=20
    is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with =
<BR>adding<BR>new=20
    objects to MIBs over time is that<BR>a) either you add to the =
original spec;=20
    but this means there's a problem<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with =
advancing the=20
    spec over time<BR>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem =
here is=20
    that you dont want<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets =
around; you=20
    want to minimize the number So, similar<BR>as what we did for ATM, =
and=20
    attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this<BR>generic title, so =
that=20
    additional functions could still be added for a<BR>while. I agree =
its not=20
    perfect. I also thought that in previous <BR>discussions<BR>there =
were some=20
    thoughts about some additional functions(?).<BR><BR>&gt;2. Some of =
the=20
    concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were =
<BR>&gt;related<BR>&gt;to=20
    the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can =
you=20
    <BR>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the =
REFERENCE=20
    clause of <BR>&gt;the cleiCode object freely =
available?<BR><BR>You're right,=20
    some of that did come up before.<BR>My understanding is the =
following:<BR>-=20
    the references point to documents by different standards=20
    groups,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at =
<A=20
    href=3D"http://www.atis.org/" =
eudora=3D"autourl">www.atis.org</A><BR>- CLEI=20
    codes are defined in those standards;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is =
the=20
    registrar to obtain an actual code<BR>In previous discussion it was =
pointed=20
    out that<BR>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation =
to<BR>use=20
    them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft<BR>in two ways: (a) =
use an=20
    opaque object instead of a dedicated object as<BR>proposed by Dave, =
and (b)=20
    language for the case that the whole thing (no<BR>CLEI nor any other =

    application of the object) is not=20
    supported.<BR><BR>Kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;Thanks and=20
    Regards,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dan<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org =
[<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn"=20
    eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</A> Behalf =
<BR>&gt; &gt; Of=20
    Kaj Tesink<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; =
To:=20
    entmib@ietf.org<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib =
support=20
    for tcif<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; all,<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at =
<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplm</A><BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; ib-00.txt<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name =
was=20
    changed (my error).<BR>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the =
WG would=20
    need<BR>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on<BR>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is =

    support/objection to do this work<BR>&gt; &gt; b) any technical=20
    comments<BR>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already =
indicated some=20
    tentative <BR>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any =
new/additional views=20
    would be helpful<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; kaj<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender:=20
    kaj@128.96.81.11<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora =
Version=20
    4.3.2<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
    &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink=20
    &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;all,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;attached is=20
    the supplemental entity miblet<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while =
ago,=20
    supporting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;-=20
    additional entity info<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method =
proposed=20
    by dave<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as =
CLEIs.<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    &gt;i do recall that there were some different<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;views on=20
    whether to use an opaque encoding<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus =
using a=20
    dedicated object, but<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and =
provide any=20
    comments.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj<BR>&gt;=20
    =
&gt;<BR><BR><BR>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><=
BR>Kaj=20
    Tesink<BR>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.<BR>331 Newman Springs =
Road<BR>Red=20
    Bank, NJ 07701<BR>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com<BR>Tel: (732)=20
    758-5254<BR>Fax: (732)=20
    =
758-4177<BR><BR>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><=
BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Entmib=20
    mailing list<BR>Entmib@ietf.org<BR><A=20
    href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A><BR><=
BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Entmib=20
    mailing list<BR>Entmib@ietf.org<BR><A=20
    href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A></BLO=
CKQUOTE><BR><BR>
  <DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Kaj Tesink</DIV>
  <DIV>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>331 Newman Springs Road</DIV>
  <DIV>Red Bank, NJ 07701</DIV>
  <DIV>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</DIV>
  <DIV>Tel: (732) 758-5254</DIV>
  <DIV>Fax: (732) 758-4177</DIV><BR>
  =
<DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV>__________=
_____________________________________=20
  Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8--

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Fri Apr  9 18:42:35 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29171
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BC4hF-0004Zn-Os
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:42:08 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i39Mg1J5017589
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:42:01 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BC4hF-0004ZU-6f; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:42:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BC4gN-0004Xt-OU
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:41:12 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29100
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:41:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BC4gI-0002kw-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:41:02 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BC4d6-0002Xd-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:37:46 -0400
Received: from [12.177.67.10] (helo=YORKTOWN.pedestalnetworks.com)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BC4Zn-0002BA-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:34:19 -0400
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8"
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:34:01 -0700
Message-ID: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalnetworks.com>
Thread-Topic: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
thread-index: AcQY+5GSuG802bExTXKtg3y9TFCk8QFhxsrw
From: "Faye Ly" <faye@pedestalnetworks.com>
To: "Kaj Tesink" <kaj@research.telcordia.com>,
        "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>, <entmib@ietf.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,
=20
Yes, we have a need for this MIB.  Any chance of getting this done?
=20
-faye

	-----Original Message-----
	From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Kaj Tesink
	Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM
	To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org
	Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
=09
=09
	hi Sharon,
=09
	At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:
=09
=09

		hi
	=09
		Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether
the working group
		wants to take this on?



	i think that question is still pending;
	we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the
	last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this
	since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on
this spec:
=09
=09
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt
=09
=09
=09
=09

		This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few
times so I think this
		is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few
concerns with some
		aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned,
the title is not
		sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data
types might be too
		opaque to be useful.=20



	as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were
	some good reasons for the high level title, but
	i'd be open to other suggestions.
=09
	as for the opaque object, the history is that
	the initial proposal based on an octet string
	syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility
	and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal
	by Dave for the current opaque construct, although
	some other comments expressed reservations (i believe
	by Juergen and Dan).=20
	i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus
	dictates.=20
=09
	kaj
=09
=09
=09
=09

		Sharon
		-----Original Message-----
		From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com]=20
		Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
		To: entmib@ietf.org
		Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
	=09
	=09
		Hi Dan,
	=09
		At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
		>Kaj,
		>
		>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I
did not change my
		>mind.
		>
		>Two comments:
		>1. I would like the title of the document to be more
explicit about
		>what
		>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is
really too generic a=20
		>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB
Extensions for manufacturing=20
		>and physical modules identification'?
	=09
	=09
		I see what you're trying to do. While this would more
accurately reflect the
		content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The
problem with=20
		adding
		new objects to MIBs over time is that
		a) either you add to the original spec; but this means
there's a problem
		    with advancing the spec over time
		b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is
that you dont want
		    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize
the number So, similar
		as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the
tactic was to use this
		generic title, so that additional functions could still
be added for a
		while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in
previous=20
		discussions
		there were some thoughts about some additional
functions(?).
	=09
		>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not
by me) were=20
		>related
		>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the
CLEI codes. Can you=20
		>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the
REFERENCE clause of=20
		>the cleiCode object freely available?
	=09
		You're right, some of that did come up before.
		My understanding is the following:
		- the references point to documents by different
standards groups,
		   and i think are available for a small fee at
www.atis.org <http://www.atis.org/>=20
		- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
		   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
		In previous discussion it was pointed out that
		while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
		use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
		in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a
dedicated object as
		proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the
whole thing (no
		CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not
supported.
	=09
		Kaj
	=09
	=09
	=09
	=09
		>Thanks and Regards,
		>
		>Dan
		>
		>
		>
		> > -----Original Message-----
		> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On <mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn>
Behalf=20
		> > Of Kaj Tesink
		> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
		> > To: entmib@ietf.org
		> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for
tcif
		> >
		> >
		> > all,
		> >
		> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now
available at=20
		> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm
		> > ib-00.txt
		> >
		> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
		> > in order to move this forward the WG would need
		> > to accept this as a formal work item.
		> >
		> > so we'd appreciate comments on
		> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this
work
		> > b) any technical comments
		> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some
tentative=20
		> > support, restating this or any new/additional views
would be helpful
		> >
		> > kaj
		> >
		> >
		> >
		> >
		> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
		> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
		> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
		> > >To: entmib@ietf.org
		> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
		> > >
		> > >
		> > >all,
		> > >
		> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet
		> > >discussed a while ago, supporting
		> > >- manufacturing date
		> > >- additional entity info
		> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave
		> > >to convey information such as CLEIs.
		> > >i do recall that there were some different
		> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding
		> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but
		> > >please read it over and provide any comments.
		> > >
		> > >kaj
		> >
	=09
	=09
		_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	=09
		Kaj Tesink
		Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
		331 Newman Springs Road
		Red Bank, NJ 07701
		Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
		Tel: (732) 758-5254
		Fax: (732) 758-4177
	=09
		_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	=09
	=09
		_______________________________________________
		Entmib mailing list
		Entmib@ietf.org
		https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
	=09
		_______________________________________________
		Entmib mailing list
		Entmib@ietf.org
		https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

	Kaj Tesink
	Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
	331 Newman Springs Road
	Red Bank, NJ 07701
	Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
	Tel: (732) 758-5254
	Fax: (732) 758-4177

	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing
list Entmib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Yes,=20
we have a need for this MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this=20
done?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D337273322-09042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>-faye</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Kaj=20
  Tesink<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Sharon=20
  Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Entmib] Re: Entity mib =
support=20
  for tcif<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>hi Sharon,<BR><BR>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 =
-0500,=20
  Sharon Chisholm wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">hi<BR><BR>Where are we in this =
discussion?=20
    Have we decided whether the working group<BR>wants to take this=20
  on?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>i think that question is still pending;<BR>we =
asked=20
  for input and expressions of interest well before the<BR>last ietf =
meeting but=20
  there has not been much traffic on this<BR>since that request. so let =
me=20
  repeat the request for input on this spec:<BR><BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><U><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-=
00.txt"=20
  =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplmib-00.txt<BR><BR><BR><BR></A></U></FONT>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">This is a requirement I've heard =
bounced=20
    around a few times so I think this<BR>is worth trying to address, =
but like=20
    Dan I have a few concerns with some<BR>aspects of the proposed =
solution. As=20
    he has mentioned, the title is not<BR>sufficiently descriptive. In =
addition,=20
    I think the data types might be too<BR>opaque to be useful.=20
  </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there=20
  were<BR>some good reasons for the high level title, but<BR>i'd be open =
to=20
  other suggestions.<BR><BR>as for the opaque object, the history is =
that<BR>the=20
  initial proposal based on an octet string<BR>syntax invoked a =
discussion about=20
  flexibility<BR>and some other aspects, and resulted in a =
proposal<BR>by Dave=20
  for the current opaque construct, although<BR>some other comments =
expressed=20
  reservations (i believe<BR>by Juergen and Dan). <BR>i'm willing to go =
with=20
  whatever the rough consensus<BR>dictates. <BR><BR>kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">Sharon<BR>-----Original=20
    Message-----<BR>From: Kaj Tesink [<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com"=20
    eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</A>] <BR>Sent: =
Wednesday,=20
    February 11, 2004 10:25 AM<BR>To: entmib@ietf.org<BR>Subject: RE: =
[Entmib]=20
    Re: Entity mib support for tcif<BR><BR><BR>Hi Dan,<BR><BR>At 10:03 =
PM=20
    2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) =
wrote:<BR>&gt;Kaj,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I=20
    was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change=20
    my<BR>&gt;mind.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Two comments:<BR>&gt;1. I would like =
the=20
    title of the document to be more explicit =
about<BR>&gt;what<BR>&gt;is really=20
    provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a =
<BR>&gt;title -=20
    what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing=20
    <BR>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<BR><BR><BR>I see what =
you're=20
    trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect =
the<BR>content, there=20
    is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with =
<BR>adding<BR>new=20
    objects to MIBs over time is that<BR>a) either you add to the =
original spec;=20
    but this means there's a problem<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with =
advancing the=20
    spec over time<BR>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem =
here is=20
    that you dont want<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets =
around; you=20
    want to minimize the number So, similar<BR>as what we did for ATM, =
and=20
    attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this<BR>generic title, so =
that=20
    additional functions could still be added for a<BR>while. I agree =
its not=20
    perfect. I also thought that in previous <BR>discussions<BR>there =
were some=20
    thoughts about some additional functions(?).<BR><BR>&gt;2. Some of =
the=20
    concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were =
<BR>&gt;related<BR>&gt;to=20
    the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can =
you=20
    <BR>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the =
REFERENCE=20
    clause of <BR>&gt;the cleiCode object freely =
available?<BR><BR>You're right,=20
    some of that did come up before.<BR>My understanding is the =
following:<BR>-=20
    the references point to documents by different standards=20
    groups,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at =
<A=20
    href=3D"http://www.atis.org/" =
eudora=3D"autourl">www.atis.org</A><BR>- CLEI=20
    codes are defined in those standards;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is =
the=20
    registrar to obtain an actual code<BR>In previous discussion it was =
pointed=20
    out that<BR>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation =
to<BR>use=20
    them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft<BR>in two ways: (a) =
use an=20
    opaque object instead of a dedicated object as<BR>proposed by Dave, =
and (b)=20
    language for the case that the whole thing (no<BR>CLEI nor any other =

    application of the object) is not=20
    supported.<BR><BR>Kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;Thanks and=20
    Regards,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dan<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org =
[<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn"=20
    eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</A> Behalf =
<BR>&gt; &gt; Of=20
    Kaj Tesink<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; =
To:=20
    entmib@ietf.org<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib =
support=20
    for tcif<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; all,<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at =
<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplm</A><BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; ib-00.txt<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name =
was=20
    changed (my error).<BR>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the =
WG would=20
    need<BR>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on<BR>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is =

    support/objection to do this work<BR>&gt; &gt; b) any technical=20
    comments<BR>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already =
indicated some=20
    tentative <BR>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any =
new/additional views=20
    would be helpful<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; kaj<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender:=20
    kaj@128.96.81.11<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora =
Version=20
    4.3.2<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
    &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink=20
    &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;all,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;attached is=20
    the supplemental entity miblet<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while =
ago,=20
    supporting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;-=20
    additional entity info<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method =
proposed=20
    by dave<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as =
CLEIs.<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
    &gt;i do recall that there were some different<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;views on=20
    whether to use an opaque encoding<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus =
using a=20
    dedicated object, but<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and =
provide any=20
    comments.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj<BR>&gt;=20
    =
&gt;<BR><BR><BR>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><=
BR>Kaj=20
    Tesink<BR>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.<BR>331 Newman Springs =
Road<BR>Red=20
    Bank, NJ 07701<BR>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com<BR>Tel: (732)=20
    758-5254<BR>Fax: (732)=20
    =
758-4177<BR><BR>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><=
BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Entmib=20
    mailing list<BR>Entmib@ietf.org<BR><A=20
    href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A><BR><=
BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Entmib=20
    mailing list<BR>Entmib@ietf.org<BR><A=20
    href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A></BLO=
CKQUOTE><BR><BR>
  <DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Kaj Tesink</DIV>
  <DIV>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>331 Newman Springs Road</DIV>
  <DIV>Red Bank, NJ 07701</DIV>
  <DIV>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</DIV>
  <DIV>Tel: (732) 758-5254</DIV>
  <DIV>Fax: (732) 758-4177</DIV><BR>
  =
<DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV>__________=
_____________________________________=20
  Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C41E82.C1B807D8--

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Mon Apr 12 16:14:29 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11875
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:14:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD7of-0004fH-FL; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:14:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD7oA-0004a6-0F
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:13:30 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11795
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7o6-00065g-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:13:26 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7Yi-0004fl-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:57:32 -0400
Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7RP-0003LV-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:59 -0400
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3CJnLV00218
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:22 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6RBMN>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:22 -0400
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340ACD5D06@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] #322 -  Textual Convention Names (Prefix)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:12 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

<clip> <Sharon>
> I think the term 'Entity' is too limiting if we agree we are going for 
> a more generic set of TCs. It occurs to be that we use the term 
> 'resource' in the Alarm MIB when we introduced the concept of a 
> 'ResourceId' as well as within the description clauses of the TCs in 
> this MIB. Would a prefix of 'ResourceState' work? </Sharon>

<randy>
I'd strongly prefer "EntityState" as a prefix.  The word "entity" is just
the college and sci-fi equivalent of "thingie", so I don't see how it would
be limiting.

</Randy>

I think because of the use we've made of it, it has morphed somewhat from
its generic use into being more specific to physical devices and logical
representations of multiple physical devices. If others don't feel using the
entity prefix will limit how people consider using the textual conventions,
then I can live with it. I just think that resource comes with less baggage
in the SNMP space.

Sharon

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Mon Apr 12 16:14:30 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11892
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:14:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD7og-0004fm-5E
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:14:03 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3CKE2tN017952
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:14:02 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD7of-0004fH-FL; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:14:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD7oA-0004a6-0F
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:13:30 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11795
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7o6-00065g-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:13:26 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7Yi-0004fl-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:57:32 -0400
Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7RP-0003LV-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:59 -0400
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3CJnLV00218
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:22 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6RBMN>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:22 -0400
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340ACD5D06@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Entmib] #322 -  Textual Convention Names (Prefix)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:12 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

<clip> <Sharon>
> I think the term 'Entity' is too limiting if we agree we are going for 
> a more generic set of TCs. It occurs to be that we use the term 
> 'resource' in the Alarm MIB when we introduced the concept of a 
> 'ResourceId' as well as within the description clauses of the TCs in 
> this MIB. Would a prefix of 'ResourceState' work? </Sharon>

<randy>
I'd strongly prefer "EntityState" as a prefix.  The word "entity" is just
the college and sci-fi equivalent of "thingie", so I don't see how it would
be limiting.

</Randy>

I think because of the use we've made of it, it has morphed somewhat from
its generic use into being more specific to physical devices and logical
representations of multiple physical devices. If others don't feel using the
entity prefix will limit how people consider using the textual conventions,
then I can live with it. I just think that resource comes with less baggage
in the SNMP space.

Sharon

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Mon Apr 12 16:41:30 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13410
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:41:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8Ep-0008IU-5N; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:41:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8Ef-0008HS-CY
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:40:53 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13378
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:40:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD8Ea-0000na-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:40:48 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7uW-0006pd-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:20:04 -0400
Received: from zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.57])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7eg-0005FZ-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:03:43 -0400
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3CK2fU21581
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6RBV3>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:42 -0400
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340ACD5D28@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:31 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] FW: [psg.com #325] AutoReply: MIB OID Structure
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

The following is the proposed resolution to entstate-325. The issue 
will be considered closed pending the proposed edit being done.

Change the OID of entStateConformance(3)to be entStateConformance(2).

[From what I can tell we are then matching the design pattern in 
	
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ops-mib-review-guidelines-02.
txt
appendix D]

Sharon Chisholm
Portfolio Integration
Nortel Networks
Ottawa, Canada

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Mon Apr 12 16:41:30 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13422
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:41:30 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8Ep-0008Is-FU
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:41:03 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3CKf3f4031908
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:41:03 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8Ep-0008IU-5N; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:41:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8Ef-0008HS-CY
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:40:53 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13378
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:40:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD8Ea-0000na-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:40:48 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7uW-0006pd-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:20:04 -0400
Received: from zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.57])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7eg-0005FZ-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:03:43 -0400
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3CK2fU21581
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6RBV3>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:42 -0400
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340ACD5D28@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:31 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] FW: [psg.com #325] AutoReply: MIB OID Structure
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

The following is the proposed resolution to entstate-325. The issue 
will be considered closed pending the proposed edit being done.

Change the OID of entStateConformance(3)to be entStateConformance(2).

[From what I can tell we are then matching the design pattern in 
	
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ops-mib-review-guidelines-02.
txt
appendix D]

Sharon Chisholm
Portfolio Integration
Nortel Networks
Ottawa, Canada

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Mon Apr 12 17:15:29 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15169
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:28 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8lh-0004cb-TM; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8lI-0004bn-Mb
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:14:36 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15114
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:14:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD8lA-00035s-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:14:28 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD8NR-0001La-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:49:57 -0400
Received: from zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.57])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7za-0007N5-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:25:19 -0400
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3CKObU23447
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:38 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6RCAX>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:38 -0400
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340ACD5D55@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:34 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] entstate-335: Consensus Check
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

<editor>
There has been a proposal to add a new notification related to the stand by
state. There hasn't really been any opposition based on people feeling it is
a really bad idea or anything, but there has been a couple bits of
opposition against adding it more related to benefit, current stage in MIB
development, lack of proposal, etc.

Is consensus not to add this new notification(s) at this time?
</editor>

[Note there is a bit more in the 335 thread, but it's not really related]

Sharon Chisholm
Portfolio Integration
Nortel Networks
Ottawa, Canada

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Mon Apr 12 17:15:29 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15182
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8li-0004cw-B3
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:02 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3CLF28M017776
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:02 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8lh-0004cb-TM; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:15:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BD8lI-0004bn-Mb
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:14:36 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15114
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:14:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD8lA-00035s-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:14:28 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD8NR-0001La-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:49:57 -0400
Received: from zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.57])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BD7za-0007N5-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:25:19 -0400
Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69])
	by zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i3CKObU23447
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:38 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
	id <GXT6RCAX>; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:38 -0400
Message-ID: <3549C09B853DD5119B540002A52CDD340ACD5D55@zcard0ka.ca.nortel.com>
From: "Sharon Chisholm" <schishol@nortelnetworks.com>
To: entmib@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:24:34 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] entstate-335: Consensus Check
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

hi

<editor>
There has been a proposal to add a new notification related to the stand by
state. There hasn't really been any opposition based on people feeling it is
a really bad idea or anything, but there has been a couple bits of
opposition against adding it more related to benefit, current stage in MIB
development, lack of proposal, etc.

Is consensus not to add this new notification(s) at this time?
</editor>

[Note there is a bit more in the 335 thread, but it's not really related]

Sharon Chisholm
Portfolio Integration
Nortel Networks
Ottawa, Canada

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Wed Apr 14 19:19:46 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05111
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:19:46 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtav-0003Sk-GJ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:15:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtSu-0001FN-GW
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:44 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA04676
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtSr-0004JM-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:41 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtRw-0004Ge-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:05:46 -0400
Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtRW-0004DF-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:05:18 -0400
Received: from shannon.research.telcordia.com (shannon-83.research.telcordia.com [128.96.83.11])
	by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3EN4e8o000746
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:04:40 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from kaj-100.research.telcordia.com (kaj-100.cc.telcordia.com [128.96.71.110])
	by shannon.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21490
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:04:38 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040414182947.02953c90@128.96.81.11>
X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:01:31 -0400
To: entmib@ietf.org
From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
In-Reply-To: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalne
 tworks.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (thumper)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_30_40,
	HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_OBLIGATION 
	autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

<html>
At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Hi,</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Yes, we have a need for this
MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this done?</font></blockquote><br>
<br>
i think the following issues have been raised:<br>
1. document title is too vague<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br>
<br>
<br>
1. document title is too vague:<br>
current proposed title is:<br>
Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects<br>
<br>
the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects<br>
- manufacturing date<br>
- additional info (an opaque object with one currently identified<br>
&nbsp; application)<br>
<br>
i proposed this title to be<br>
a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past<br>
b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future<br>
<br>
given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,<br>
it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:<br>
'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical module
identification'<br>
<br>
or perhaps:<br>
<br>
Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB<br>
(more precise but still not very illuminating)<br>
<br>
I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.<br>
<br>
<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.<br>
the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave<br>
and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also<br>
allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that<br>
this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the <br>
original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.<br>
note that my original question was posed in the context of<br>
extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate<br>
document. <br>
any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?<br>
<br>
<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br>
since the original proposal i've seen several supporting comments <br>
but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge<br>
<br>
kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---snip from initial
posting-------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
=============================================================<br>
new objects:<br>
<br>
entPhysicalCLIECode&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-write<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE Code<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode will<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
be set to a zero-length string instead.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE &quot;TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data
elements<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
included in the Management Information Base,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment entities<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
of the North American telecommunications system for<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
information exchange, ANSI.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Coded identification of equipment entities of the North<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
American telecommunications system for information exchange,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
to correct the representation of the Basic Code in<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Figure B.1, ANSI.&quot;<br>
<br>
entPhysicalMfgDate&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
DateAndTime<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-only<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The manufacturing date for the physical entity.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">-faye</font>
<dl><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</a>]
On Behalf Of </b>Kaj Tesink
<dd>Sent:</b> Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM
<dd>To:</b> Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org
<dd>Subject:</b> [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
</font>
<dd>hi Sharon,<br>
<br>

<dd>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>hi<br>
<br>

<dd>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working
group
<dd>wants to take this on?</blockquote><br>
<br>

<dd>i think that question is still pending;
<dd>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the
<dd>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this
<dd>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this
spec:<br>
<br>
<font color="#0000FF">
<dd><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</u></font><blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I
think this
<dd>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with
some
<dd>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is
not
<dd>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might
be too
<dd>opaque to be useful. </blockquote><br>
<br>

<dd>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were
<dd>some good reasons for the high level title, but
<dd>i'd be open to other suggestions.<br>
<br>

<dd>as for the opaque object, the history is that
<dd>the initial proposal based on an octet string
<dd>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility
<dd>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal
<dd>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although
<dd>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe
<dd>by Juergen and Dan). 
<dd>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus
<dd>dictates. <br>
<br>

<dd>kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>Sharon
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From: Kaj Tesink
[<a href="mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</a>] 
<dd>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
<dd>To: entmib@ietf.org
<dd>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>Hi Dan,<br>
<br>

<dd>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
<dd>&gt;Kaj,
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not
change my
<dd>&gt;mind.
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;Two comments:
<dd>&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit
about
<dd>&gt;what
<dd>&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too
generic a 
<dd>&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for
manufacturing 
<dd>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately
reflect the
<dd>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
<dd>adding
<dd>new objects to MIBs over time is that
<dd>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a
problem
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time
<dd>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you
dont want
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize
the number So, similar
<dd>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use
this
<dd>generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for
a
<dd>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
<dd>discussions
<dd>there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).<br>
<br>

<dd>&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
<dd>&gt;related
<dd>&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes.
Can you 
<dd>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE
clause of 
<dd>&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<br>
<br>

<dd>You're right, some of that did come up before.
<dd>My understanding is the following:
<dd>- the references point to documents by different standards groups,
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at
<a href="http://www.atis.org/" eudora="autourl">www.atis.org</a>
<dd>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
<dd>In previous discussion it was pointed out that
<dd>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
<dd>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
<dd>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object
as
<dd>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing
(no
<dd>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.<br>
<br>

<dd>Kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>&gt;Thanks and Regards,
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;Dan
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----
<dd>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</a>
Behalf 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink
<dd>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
<dd>&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org
<dd>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; all,
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm</a>
<dd>&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
<dd>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need
<dd>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on
<dd>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this work
<dd>&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments
<dd>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some
tentative 
<dd>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional views would
be helpful
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; kaj
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;all,
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs.
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments.
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj
<dd>&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_______________________________________________
<dd>Entmib mailing list
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a><br>
<br>

<dd>_______________________________________________
<dd>Entmib mailing list
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a></blockquote><br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
<dd>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a> 
</dl></blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
<br>
<div>Kaj Tesink</div>
<div>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</div>
<div>331 Newman Springs Road</div>
<div>Red Bank, NJ 07701</div>
<div>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</div>
<div>Tel: (732) 758-5254</div>
<div>Fax: (732) 758-4177</div>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
</html>


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Wed Apr 14 19:23:39 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05309
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtf3-0004sa-Ez
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:19:21 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3ENJHBG018756
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:19:17 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtav-0003Sk-GJ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:15:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtSu-0001FN-GW
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:44 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA04676
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:39 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtSr-0004JM-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:06:41 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtRw-0004Ge-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:05:46 -0400
Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtRW-0004DF-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:05:18 -0400
Received: from shannon.research.telcordia.com (shannon-83.research.telcordia.com [128.96.83.11])
	by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3EN4e8o000746
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:04:40 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from kaj-100.research.telcordia.com (kaj-100.cc.telcordia.com [128.96.71.110])
	by shannon.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21490
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:04:38 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040414182947.02953c90@128.96.81.11>
X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:01:31 -0400
To: entmib@ietf.org
From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
In-Reply-To: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalne
 tworks.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (thumper)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_30_40,
	HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,MIME_HTML_ONLY,NO_OBLIGATION 
	autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

<html>
At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Hi,</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Yes, we have a need for this
MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this done?</font></blockquote><br>
<br>
i think the following issues have been raised:<br>
1. document title is too vague<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br>
<br>
<br>
1. document title is too vague:<br>
current proposed title is:<br>
Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects<br>
<br>
the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects<br>
- manufacturing date<br>
- additional info (an opaque object with one currently identified<br>
&nbsp; application)<br>
<br>
i proposed this title to be<br>
a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past<br>
b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future<br>
<br>
given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,<br>
it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:<br>
'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical module
identification'<br>
<br>
or perhaps:<br>
<br>
Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB<br>
(more precise but still not very illuminating)<br>
<br>
I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.<br>
<br>
<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.<br>
the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave<br>
and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also<br>
allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that<br>
this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the <br>
original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.<br>
note that my original question was posed in the context of<br>
extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate<br>
document. <br>
any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?<br>
<br>
<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br>
since the original proposal i've seen several supporting comments <br>
but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge<br>
<br>
kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---snip from initial
posting-------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
=============================================================<br>
new objects:<br>
<br>
entPhysicalCLIECode&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-write<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE Code<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode will<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
be set to a zero-length string instead.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE &quot;TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data
elements<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
included in the Management Information Base,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment entities<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
of the North American telecommunications system for<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
information exchange, ANSI.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Coded identification of equipment entities of the North<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
American telecommunications system for information exchange,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
to correct the representation of the Basic Code in<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Figure B.1, ANSI.&quot;<br>
<br>
entPhysicalMfgDate&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
DateAndTime<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-only<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The manufacturing date for the physical entity.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">-faye</font>
<dl><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</a>]
On Behalf Of </b>Kaj Tesink
<dd>Sent:</b> Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM
<dd>To:</b> Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org
<dd>Subject:</b> [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
</font>
<dd>hi Sharon,<br>
<br>

<dd>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>hi<br>
<br>

<dd>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working
group
<dd>wants to take this on?</blockquote><br>
<br>

<dd>i think that question is still pending;
<dd>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the
<dd>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this
<dd>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this
spec:<br>
<br>
<font color="#0000FF">
<dd><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</u></font><blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I
think this
<dd>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with
some
<dd>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is
not
<dd>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might
be too
<dd>opaque to be useful. </blockquote><br>
<br>

<dd>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were
<dd>some good reasons for the high level title, but
<dd>i'd be open to other suggestions.<br>
<br>

<dd>as for the opaque object, the history is that
<dd>the initial proposal based on an octet string
<dd>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility
<dd>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal
<dd>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although
<dd>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe
<dd>by Juergen and Dan). 
<dd>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus
<dd>dictates. <br>
<br>

<dd>kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>Sharon
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From: Kaj Tesink
[<a href="mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</a>] 
<dd>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM
<dd>To: entmib@ietf.org
<dd>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>Hi Dan,<br>
<br>

<dd>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:
<dd>&gt;Kaj,
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not
change my
<dd>&gt;mind.
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;Two comments:
<dd>&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit
about
<dd>&gt;what
<dd>&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too
generic a 
<dd>&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for
manufacturing 
<dd>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately
reflect the
<dd>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
<dd>adding
<dd>new objects to MIBs over time is that
<dd>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a
problem
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time
<dd>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you
dont want
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize
the number So, similar
<dd>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use
this
<dd>generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for
a
<dd>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
<dd>discussions
<dd>there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).<br>
<br>

<dd>&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
<dd>&gt;related
<dd>&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes.
Can you 
<dd>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE
clause of 
<dd>&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<br>
<br>

<dd>You're right, some of that did come up before.
<dd>My understanding is the following:
<dd>- the references point to documents by different standards groups,
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at
<a href="http://www.atis.org/" eudora="autourl">www.atis.org</a>
<dd>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code
<dd>In previous discussion it was pointed out that
<dd>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to
<dd>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft
<dd>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object
as
<dd>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing
(no
<dd>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.<br>
<br>

<dd>Kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>&gt;Thanks and Regards,
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;Dan
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----
<dd>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</a>
Behalf 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink
<dd>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM
<dd>&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org
<dd>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; all,
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm</a>
<dd>&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error).
<dd>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need
<dd>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on
<dd>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this work
<dd>&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments
<dd>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some
tentative 
<dd>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional views would
be helpful
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; kaj
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;all,
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs.
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments.
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj
<dd>&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_______________________________________________
<dd>Entmib mailing list
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a><br>
<br>

<dd>_______________________________________________
<dd>Entmib mailing list
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a></blockquote><br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
<dd>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a> 
</dl></blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
<br>
<div>Kaj Tesink</div>
<div>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</div>
<div>331 Newman Springs Road</div>
<div>Red Bank, NJ 07701</div>
<div>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</div>
<div>Tel: (732) 758-5254</div>
<div>Fax: (732) 758-4177</div>
<br>
<div>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</div>
</html>


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Wed Apr 14 19:38:20 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05798
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtqS-0007k0-Be; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:04 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtnD-0006gQ-K2
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:43 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05487
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtnB-0005N9-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:41 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtmJ-0005Km-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:26:50 -0400
Received: from [12.177.67.10] (helo=YORKTOWN.pedestalnetworks.com)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtlT-0005Ga-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:25:55 -0400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78"
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:25:49 -0700
Message-ID: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF9FCB8F@yorktown.pedestalnetworks.com>
Thread-Topic: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
thread-index: AcQidtVkiYZGeFr4QoGfQUpuMgOKkwAACqAg
From: "Faye Ly" <faye@pedestalnetworks.com>
To: "Kaj Tesink" <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, <entmib@ietf.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kaj,
=20
Regarding 2, (Please see cut and paste text), I agree with the string
approach as it is a well defined standard in ASCII displayble format.
It will simplify the implementation a lot as vendor like us typically
just save it as a string in the chassis/board table and never meddle
with it.
=20
Also do you think it is worth a while to also include the CLLI code
support in this MIB?  It is used when SNMP and TL1 both exist either in
the device or proxied by one another.  Thanks.
=20
-faye
=20
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.
the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave
and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also
allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that
this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the=20
original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.
note that my original question was posed in the context of
extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate
document.=20
any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?


	-----Original Message-----
	From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Kaj Tesink
	Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:02 PM
	To: entmib@ietf.org
	Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
=09
=09
	At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly wrote:
=09

		Hi,
		=20
		Yes, we have a need for this MIB.  Any chance of getting
this done?



	i think the following issues have been raised:
	1. document title is too vague
	2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement
	3. acceptance as work item
=09
=09
	1. document title is too vague:
	current proposed title is:
	Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects
=09
	the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects
	- manufacturing date
	- additional info (an opaque object with one currently
identified
	  application)
=09
	i proposed this title to be
	a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past
	b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future
=09
	given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,
	it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:
	'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical
module identification'
=09
	or perhaps:
=09
	Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB
	(more precise but still not very illuminating)
=09
	I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.
=09
=09
	2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.
	the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave
	and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also
	allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that
	this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the=20
	original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.
	note that my original question was posed in the context of
	extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate
	document.=20
	any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?
=09
=09
	3. acceptance as work item
	since the original proposal i've seen several supporting
comments=20
	but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge
=09
	kaj
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
	---snip from initial
posting-------------------------------------------------
=09
=09
	=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
	new objects:
=09
	entPhysicalCLIECode   OBJECT-TYPE
	     SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))
	     MAX-ACCESS  read-write
	     STATUS      current
	     DESCRIPTION
	             "The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE
Code
	             is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode
will
	             be set to a zero-length string instead."
	     ::=3D { entPhysicalEntry xx }
	     REFERENCE "TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
	             included in the Management Information Base,
	             Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF),
09/11/2002.
	             ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment
entities
	             of the North American telecommunications system for
	             information exchange, ANSI.
	             ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,
	             Coded identification of equipment entities of the
North
	             American telecommunications system for information
exchange,
	             to correct the representation of the Basic Code in
	             Figure B.1, ANSI."
=09
	entPhysicalMfgDate   OBJECT-TYPE
	     SYNTAX      DateAndTime
	     MAX-ACCESS  read-only
	     STATUS      current
	     DESCRIPTION
	             "The manufacturing date for the physical entity."
	     ::=3D { entPhysicalEntry xx }
=09
=09
=09


		-faye=20

		=09
			-----Original Message-----=20
			From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kaj Tesink=20
			Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM=20
			To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org=20
			Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for
tcif
		=09
		=09
			hi Sharon,
		=09
		=09
			At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm
wrote:
		=09
		=09

				hi
			=09
			=09
				Where are we in this discussion? Have we
decided whether the working group=20
				wants to take this on?



			i think that question is still pending;=20
			we asked for input and expressions of interest
well before the=20
			last ietf meeting but there has not been much
traffic on this=20
			since that request. so let me repeat the request
for input on this spec:
		=09
		=09
=09
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09

				This is a requirement I've heard bounced
around a few times so I think this=20
				is worth trying to address, but like Dan
I have a few concerns with some=20
				aspects of the proposed solution. As he
has mentioned, the title is not=20
				sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I
think the data types might be too=20
				opaque to be useful.=20



			as per my comments based on Dan's note, there
were=20
			some good reasons for the high level title, but=20
			i'd be open to other suggestions.
		=09
		=09
			as for the opaque object, the history is that=20
			the initial proposal based on an octet string=20
			syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility=20
			and some other aspects, and resulted in a
proposal=20
			by Dave for the current opaque construct,
although=20
			some other comments expressed reservations (i
believe=20
			by Juergen and Dan).=20
			i'm willing to go with whatever the rough
consensus=20
			dictates.=20
		=09
		=09
			kaj
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09

				Sharon=20
				-----Original Message-----=20
				From: Kaj Tesink
[mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com]=20
				Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25
AM=20
				To: entmib@ietf.org=20
				Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib
support for tcif
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
				Hi Dan,
			=09
			=09
				At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu,
Dan (Dan) wrote:=20
				>Kaj,=20
				>=20
				>I was among the ones who supported
doing this work. I did not change my=20
				>mind.=20
				>=20
				>Two comments:=20
				>1. I would like the title of the
document to be more explicit about=20
				>what=20
				>is really provided by this MIB.
'Supplemental' is really too generic a=20
				>title - what about something like
'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing=20
				>and physical modules identification'?
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
				I see what you're trying to do. While
this would more accurately reflect the=20
				content, there is the issue of future
compatibility. The problem with=20
				adding=20
				new objects to MIBs over time is that=20
				a) either you add to the original spec;
but this means there's a problem=20
				    with advancing the spec over time=20
				b) or you define supplemental specs; the
problem here is that you dont want=20
				    all sorts of miblets around; you
want to minimize the number So, similar=20
				as what we did for ATM, and attempted
for DS1s, the tactic was to use this=20
				generic title, so that additional
functions could still be added for a=20
				while. I agree its not perfect. I also
thought that in previous=20
				discussions=20
				there were some thoughts about some
additional functions(?).
			=09
			=09
				>2. Some of the concerns expressed in
the meeting (not by me) were=20
				>related=20
				>to the availability and the proprietary
nature of the CLEI codes. Can you=20
				>comment on these? Are the documents
mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of=20
				>the cleiCode object freely available?
			=09
			=09
				You're right, some of that did come up
before.=20
				My understanding is the following:=20
				- the references point to documents by
different standards groups,=20
				   and i think are available for a small
fee at www.atis.org <http://www.atis.org/> =20
				- CLEI codes are defined in those
standards;=20
				   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain
an actual code=20
				In previous discussion it was pointed
out that=20
				while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no
obligation to=20
				use them; I've tried to reflect that in
the draft=20
				in two ways: (a) use an opaque object
instead of a dedicated object as=20
				proposed by Dave, and (b) language for
the case that the whole thing (no=20
				CLEI nor any other application of the
object) is not supported.
			=09
			=09
				Kaj
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
				>Thanks and Regards,=20
				>=20
				>Dan=20
				>=20
				>=20
				>=20
				> > -----Original Message-----=20
				> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On <mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn>
Behalf=20
				> > Of Kaj Tesink=20
				> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM=20
				> > To: entmib@ietf.org=20
				> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity
mib support for tcif=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> > all,=20
				> >=20
				> > the draft i sent to the list last
week is now available at=20
				> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm=20
				> > ib-00.txt=20
				> >=20
				> > pl note that the file name was
changed (my error).=20
				> > in order to move this forward the WG
would need=20
				> > to accept this as a formal work
item.=20
				> >=20
				> > so we'd appreciate comments on=20
				> > a) whether there is
support/objection to do this work=20
				> > b) any technical comments=20
				> > while the minneapolis meeting
already indicated some tentative=20
				> > support, restating this or any
new/additional views would be helpful=20
				> >=20
				> > kaj=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11=20
				> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora
Version 4.3.2=20
				> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54
-0500=20
				> > >To: entmib@ietf.org=20
				> > >From: Kaj Tesink
<kaj@research.telcordia.com>=20
				> > >=20
				> > >=20
				> > >all,=20
				> > >=20
				> > >attached is the supplemental entity
miblet=20
				> > >discussed a while ago, supporting=20
				> > >- manufacturing date=20
				> > >- additional entity info=20
				> > >the latter uses the method proposed
by dave=20
				> > >to convey information such as
CLEIs.=20
				> > >i do recall that there were some
different=20
				> > >views on whether to use an opaque
encoding=20
				> > >method versus using a dedicated
object, but=20
				> > >please read it over and provide any
comments.=20
				> > >=20
				> > >kaj=20
				> >
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
			=09
			=09
				Kaj Tesink=20
				Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
				331 Newman Springs Road=20
				Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
				Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
				Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
				Fax: (732) 758-4177
			=09
			=09
=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
=09
_______________________________________________=20
				Entmib mailing list=20
				Entmib@ietf.org=20
=09
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
			=09
			=09
=09
_______________________________________________=20
				Entmib mailing list=20
				Entmib@ietf.org=20
=09
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
		=09
		=09
			Kaj Tesink=20
			Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
			331 Newman Springs Road=20
			Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
			Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
			Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
			Fax: (732) 758-4177
		=09
		=09
=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/=20
			_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib=20



	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

	Kaj Tesink
	Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
	331 Newman Springs Road
	Red Bank, NJ 07701
	Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
	Tel: (732) 758-5254
	Fax: (732) 758-4177

	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing
list Entmib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Kaj,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Regarding 2, (Please see cut and paste text), I agree with the =
string=20
approach as it is a well defined standard in ASCII displayble =
format.&nbsp; It=20
will simplify the implementation a lot as vendor like us typically just =
save it=20
as a string in the chassis/board table and never meddle with=20
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Also=20
do you think it is worth a while to also include the CLLI code support =
in this=20
MIB?&nbsp; It is used when SNMP and TL1 both exist either in the device =
or=20
proxied by one another.&nbsp; Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>-faye</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004>2. opaque object is cumbersome to=20
implement.<BR>the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by=20
Dave<BR>and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also<BR>allow=20
flexibility. but several comments pointed out that<BR>this may be too =
cumbersome=20
to implement. i attach the <BR>original proposal which was an object =
dedicated=20
to CLEI.<BR>note that my original question was posed in the context=20
of<BR>extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a=20
separate<BR>document. <BR>any strong feelings against going back to the=20
original? Dave?<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Kaj=20
  Tesink<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =

  entmib@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support =
for=20
  tcif<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly =
wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff =

    size=3D2>Hi,</FONT><BR>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Yes, we=20
    have a need for this MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this=20
  done?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>i think the following issues have =
been=20
  raised:<BR>1. document title is too vague<BR>2. opaque object is =
cumbersome to=20
  implement<BR>3. acceptance as work item<BR><BR><BR>1. document title =
is too=20
  vague:<BR>current proposed title is:<BR>Definitions of Supplemental =
Entity=20
  Managed Objects<BR><BR>the current contents of the MIB module is only =
two=20
  objects<BR>- manufacturing date<BR>- additional info (an opaque object =
with=20
  one currently identified<BR>&nbsp; application)<BR><BR>i proposed this =
title=20
  to be<BR>a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the =
past<BR>b) to=20
  be compatible with possible extensions in the future<BR><BR>given the =
two=20
  current objects, and that one of them is opaque,<BR>it is hard to be =
very=20
  specific. Dan suggested something like:<BR>'Entity MIB Extensions for=20
  manufacturing date and physical module identification'<BR><BR>or=20
  perhaps:<BR><BR>Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity =
MIB<BR>(more=20
  precise but still not very illuminating)<BR><BR>I suggest we go with =
Dan's=20
  proposal.<BR><BR><BR>2. opaque object is cumbersome to =
implement.<BR>the=20
  suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave<BR>and was =
meant to=20
  accommodate several concerns and also<BR>allow flexibility. but =
several=20
  comments pointed out that<BR>this may be too cumbersome to implement. =
i attach=20
  the <BR>original proposal which was an object dedicated to =
CLEI.<BR>note that=20
  my original question was posed in the context of<BR>extending the =
Entity MIB=20
  directly instead of creating a separate<BR>document. <BR>any strong =
feelings=20
  against going back to the original? Dave?<BR><BR><BR>3. acceptance as =
work=20
  item<BR>since the original proposal i've seen several supporting =
comments=20
  <BR>but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to=20
  gauge<BR><BR>kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>---snip from initial=20
  =
posting-------------------------------------------------<BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>new=20
  objects:<BR><BR>entPhysicalCLIECode&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  OBJECT-TYPE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;=20
  read-write<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  current<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  "The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE=20
  =
Code<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode=20
  =
will<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  be set to a zero-length string instead."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
::=3D {=20
  entPhysicalEntry xx }<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE =
"TCIF-02-004,=20
  Guideline for data=20
  =
elements<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  included in the Management Information=20
  =
Base,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF),=20
  =
09/11/2002.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment=20
  =
entities<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  of the North American telecommunications system=20
  =
for<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
  information exchange,=20
  =
ANSI.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to=20
  =
T1.213-2001,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Coded identification of equipment entities of the=20
  =
North<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  American telecommunications system for information=20
  =
exchange,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  to correct the representation of the Basic Code=20
  =
in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
  Figure B.1, ANSI."<BR><BR>entPhysicalMfgDate&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  OBJECT-TYPE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  DateAndTime<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;=20
  read-only<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  current<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  "The manufacturing date for the physical =
entity."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  ::=3D { entPhysicalEntry xx }<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><BR><FONT face=3Darial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2>-faye</FONT>=20
    <DL><FONT face=3Dtahoma size=3D2>
      <DD>-----Original Message-----=20
      <DD>From:</B> entmib-admin@ietf.org [<A=20
      href=3D"mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org"=20
      eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</A>] On Behalf Of =
</B>Kaj=20
      Tesink=20
      <DD>Sent:</B> Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM=20
      <DD>To:</B> Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org=20
      <DD>Subject:</B> [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for =
tcif<BR><BR></FONT>
      <DD>hi Sharon,<BR><BR>
      <DD>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<BR><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">
        <DD>hi<BR><BR>
        <DD>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the =
working=20
        group=20
        <DD>wants to take this on?</DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
      <DD>i think that question is still pending;=20
      <DD>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the =

      <DD>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this=20
      <DD>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on =
this=20
      spec:<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff>
      <DD><A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-=
00.txt"=20
      =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplmib-00.txt</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></U></FONT>
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">
        <DD>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times =
so I=20
        think this=20
        <DD>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few =
concerns with=20
        some=20
        <DD>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the =
title is=20
        not=20
        <DD>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data =
types might=20
        be too=20
        <DD>opaque to be useful. </DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
      <DD>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were=20
      <DD>some good reasons for the high level title, but=20
      <DD>i'd be open to other suggestions.<BR><BR>
      <DD>as for the opaque object, the history is that=20
      <DD>the initial proposal based on an octet string=20
      <DD>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility=20
      <DD>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal=20
      <DD>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although=20
      <DD>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe=20
      <DD>by Juergen and Dan).=20
      <DD>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus=20
      <DD>dictates. <BR><BR>
      <DD>kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">
        <DD>Sharon=20
        <DD>-----Original Message-----=20
        <DD>From: Kaj Tesink [<A =
href=3D"mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com"=20
        eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</A>]=20
        <DD>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM=20
        <DD>To: entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for=20
tcif<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>Hi Dan,<BR><BR>
        <DD>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:=20
        <DD>&gt;Kaj,=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I =
did not=20
        change my=20
        <DD>&gt;mind.=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;Two comments:=20
        <DD>&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more =
explicit=20
        about=20
        <DD>&gt;what=20
        <DD>&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really =
too=20
        generic a=20
        <DD>&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions =
for=20
        manufacturing=20
        <DD>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more =
accurately=20
        reflect the=20
        <DD>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The =
problem=20
        with=20
        <DD>adding=20
        <DD>new objects to MIBs over time is that=20
        <DD>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means =
there's a=20
        problem=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time=20
        <DD>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is =
that you=20
        dont want=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to =
minimize=20
        the number So, similar=20
        <DD>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic =
was to=20
        use this=20
        <DD>generic title, so that additional functions could still be =
added for=20
        a=20
        <DD>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in =
previous=20
        <DD>discussions=20
        <DD>there were some thoughts about some additional =
functions(?).<BR><BR>
        <DD>&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by =
me)=20
        were=20
        <DD>&gt;related=20
        <DD>&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the =
CLEI=20
        codes. Can you=20
        <DD>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the =
REFERENCE=20
        clause of=20
        <DD>&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<BR><BR>
        <DD>You're right, some of that did come up before.=20
        <DD>My understanding is the following:=20
        <DD>- the references point to documents by different standards =
groups,=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at <A =

        href=3D"http://www.atis.org/" =
eudora=3D"autourl">www.atis.org</A>=20
        <DD>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual =
code=20
        <DD>In previous discussion it was pointed out that=20
        <DD>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to=20
        <DD>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft=20
        <DD>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated =
object=20
        as=20
        <DD>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the =
whole thing=20
        (no=20
        <DD>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not=20
        supported.<BR><BR>
        <DD>Kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>&gt;Thanks and Regards,=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;Dan=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [<A=20
        href=3D"mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn"=20
        eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</A> Behalf=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for =
tcif=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; all,=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now =
available at=20

        <DD>&gt; &gt; <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm"=20
        =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplm</A>=20

        <DD>&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error). =

        <DD>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this =
work=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated =
some=20
        tentative=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional =
views would=20
        be helpful=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; kaj=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version =
4.3.2=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink =
&lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;all,=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs.=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments.=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><BR>
        <DD>Kaj Tesink=20
        <DD>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
        <DD>331 Newman Springs Road=20
        <DD>Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
        <DD>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
        <DD>Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
        <DD>Fax: (732) 758-4177<BR><BR>
        =
<DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>_______________________________________________=20
        <DD>Entmib mailing list=20
        <DD>Entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD><A href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
        =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A><BR><=
BR>
        <DD>_______________________________________________=20
        <DD>Entmib mailing list=20
        <DD>Entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD><A href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
        =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A></DD>=
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
      <DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><BR>
      <DD>Kaj Tesink=20
      <DD>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
      <DD>331 Newman Springs Road=20
      <DD>Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
      <DD>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
      <DD>Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
      <DD>Fax: (732) 758-4177<BR><BR>
      <DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/=20
      <DD>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing =
list=20
      Entmib@ietf.org <A =
href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
      =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A>=20
  </DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
  <DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Kaj Tesink</DIV>
  <DIV>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>331 Newman Springs Road</DIV>
  <DIV>Red Bank, NJ 07701</DIV>
  <DIV>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</DIV>
  <DIV>Tel: (732) 758-5254</DIV>
  <DIV>Fax: (732) 758-4177</DIV><BR>
  =
<DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV>__________=
_____________________________________=20
  Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78--

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Wed Apr 14 19:39:27 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05843
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:39:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtx1-0001WU-Jl
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:37:51 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3ENbpP5005835
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:37:51 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtqS-0007k0-Be; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:31:04 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDtnD-0006gQ-K2
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:43 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05487
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtnB-0005N9-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:41 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtmJ-0005Km-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:26:50 -0400
Received: from [12.177.67.10] (helo=YORKTOWN.pedestalnetworks.com)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDtlT-0005Ga-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:25:55 -0400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78"
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:25:49 -0700
Message-ID: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF9FCB8F@yorktown.pedestalnetworks.com>
Thread-Topic: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
thread-index: AcQidtVkiYZGeFr4QoGfQUpuMgOKkwAACqAg
From: "Faye Ly" <faye@pedestalnetworks.com>
To: "Kaj Tesink" <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, <entmib@ietf.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kaj,
=20
Regarding 2, (Please see cut and paste text), I agree with the string
approach as it is a well defined standard in ASCII displayble format.
It will simplify the implementation a lot as vendor like us typically
just save it as a string in the chassis/board table and never meddle
with it.
=20
Also do you think it is worth a while to also include the CLLI code
support in this MIB?  It is used when SNMP and TL1 both exist either in
the device or proxied by one another.  Thanks.
=20
-faye
=20
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.
the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave
and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also
allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that
this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the=20
original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.
note that my original question was posed in the context of
extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate
document.=20
any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?


	-----Original Message-----
	From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Kaj Tesink
	Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:02 PM
	To: entmib@ietf.org
	Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
=09
=09
	At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly wrote:
=09

		Hi,
		=20
		Yes, we have a need for this MIB.  Any chance of getting
this done?



	i think the following issues have been raised:
	1. document title is too vague
	2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement
	3. acceptance as work item
=09
=09
	1. document title is too vague:
	current proposed title is:
	Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects
=09
	the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects
	- manufacturing date
	- additional info (an opaque object with one currently
identified
	  application)
=09
	i proposed this title to be
	a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past
	b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future
=09
	given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,
	it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:
	'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical
module identification'
=09
	or perhaps:
=09
	Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB
	(more precise but still not very illuminating)
=09
	I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.
=09
=09
	2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.
	the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave
	and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also
	allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that
	this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the=20
	original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.
	note that my original question was posed in the context of
	extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate
	document.=20
	any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?
=09
=09
	3. acceptance as work item
	since the original proposal i've seen several supporting
comments=20
	but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge
=09
	kaj
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
	---snip from initial
posting-------------------------------------------------
=09
=09
	=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
	new objects:
=09
	entPhysicalCLIECode   OBJECT-TYPE
	     SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))
	     MAX-ACCESS  read-write
	     STATUS      current
	     DESCRIPTION
	             "The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE
Code
	             is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode
will
	             be set to a zero-length string instead."
	     ::=3D { entPhysicalEntry xx }
	     REFERENCE "TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
	             included in the Management Information Base,
	             Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF),
09/11/2002.
	             ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment
entities
	             of the North American telecommunications system for
	             information exchange, ANSI.
	             ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,
	             Coded identification of equipment entities of the
North
	             American telecommunications system for information
exchange,
	             to correct the representation of the Basic Code in
	             Figure B.1, ANSI."
=09
	entPhysicalMfgDate   OBJECT-TYPE
	     SYNTAX      DateAndTime
	     MAX-ACCESS  read-only
	     STATUS      current
	     DESCRIPTION
	             "The manufacturing date for the physical entity."
	     ::=3D { entPhysicalEntry xx }
=09
=09
=09


		-faye=20

		=09
			-----Original Message-----=20
			From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kaj Tesink=20
			Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM=20
			To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org=20
			Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for
tcif
		=09
		=09
			hi Sharon,
		=09
		=09
			At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm
wrote:
		=09
		=09

				hi
			=09
			=09
				Where are we in this discussion? Have we
decided whether the working group=20
				wants to take this on?



			i think that question is still pending;=20
			we asked for input and expressions of interest
well before the=20
			last ietf meeting but there has not been much
traffic on this=20
			since that request. so let me repeat the request
for input on this spec:
		=09
		=09
=09
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09

				This is a requirement I've heard bounced
around a few times so I think this=20
				is worth trying to address, but like Dan
I have a few concerns with some=20
				aspects of the proposed solution. As he
has mentioned, the title is not=20
				sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I
think the data types might be too=20
				opaque to be useful.=20



			as per my comments based on Dan's note, there
were=20
			some good reasons for the high level title, but=20
			i'd be open to other suggestions.
		=09
		=09
			as for the opaque object, the history is that=20
			the initial proposal based on an octet string=20
			syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility=20
			and some other aspects, and resulted in a
proposal=20
			by Dave for the current opaque construct,
although=20
			some other comments expressed reservations (i
believe=20
			by Juergen and Dan).=20
			i'm willing to go with whatever the rough
consensus=20
			dictates.=20
		=09
		=09
			kaj
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09
		=09

				Sharon=20
				-----Original Message-----=20
				From: Kaj Tesink
[mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com]=20
				Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25
AM=20
				To: entmib@ietf.org=20
				Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib
support for tcif
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
				Hi Dan,
			=09
			=09
				At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu,
Dan (Dan) wrote:=20
				>Kaj,=20
				>=20
				>I was among the ones who supported
doing this work. I did not change my=20
				>mind.=20
				>=20
				>Two comments:=20
				>1. I would like the title of the
document to be more explicit about=20
				>what=20
				>is really provided by this MIB.
'Supplemental' is really too generic a=20
				>title - what about something like
'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing=20
				>and physical modules identification'?
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
				I see what you're trying to do. While
this would more accurately reflect the=20
				content, there is the issue of future
compatibility. The problem with=20
				adding=20
				new objects to MIBs over time is that=20
				a) either you add to the original spec;
but this means there's a problem=20
				    with advancing the spec over time=20
				b) or you define supplemental specs; the
problem here is that you dont want=20
				    all sorts of miblets around; you
want to minimize the number So, similar=20
				as what we did for ATM, and attempted
for DS1s, the tactic was to use this=20
				generic title, so that additional
functions could still be added for a=20
				while. I agree its not perfect. I also
thought that in previous=20
				discussions=20
				there were some thoughts about some
additional functions(?).
			=09
			=09
				>2. Some of the concerns expressed in
the meeting (not by me) were=20
				>related=20
				>to the availability and the proprietary
nature of the CLEI codes. Can you=20
				>comment on these? Are the documents
mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of=20
				>the cleiCode object freely available?
			=09
			=09
				You're right, some of that did come up
before.=20
				My understanding is the following:=20
				- the references point to documents by
different standards groups,=20
				   and i think are available for a small
fee at www.atis.org <http://www.atis.org/> =20
				- CLEI codes are defined in those
standards;=20
				   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain
an actual code=20
				In previous discussion it was pointed
out that=20
				while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no
obligation to=20
				use them; I've tried to reflect that in
the draft=20
				in two ways: (a) use an opaque object
instead of a dedicated object as=20
				proposed by Dave, and (b) language for
the case that the whole thing (no=20
				CLEI nor any other application of the
object) is not supported.
			=09
			=09
				Kaj
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
				>Thanks and Regards,=20
				>=20
				>Dan=20
				>=20
				>=20
				>=20
				> > -----Original Message-----=20
				> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On <mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn>
Behalf=20
				> > Of Kaj Tesink=20
				> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM=20
				> > To: entmib@ietf.org=20
				> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity
mib support for tcif=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> > all,=20
				> >=20
				> > the draft i sent to the list last
week is now available at=20
				> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm=20
				> > ib-00.txt=20
				> >=20
				> > pl note that the file name was
changed (my error).=20
				> > in order to move this forward the WG
would need=20
				> > to accept this as a formal work
item.=20
				> >=20
				> > so we'd appreciate comments on=20
				> > a) whether there is
support/objection to do this work=20
				> > b) any technical comments=20
				> > while the minneapolis meeting
already indicated some tentative=20
				> > support, restating this or any
new/additional views would be helpful=20
				> >=20
				> > kaj=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> >=20
				> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11=20
				> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora
Version 4.3.2=20
				> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54
-0500=20
				> > >To: entmib@ietf.org=20
				> > >From: Kaj Tesink
<kaj@research.telcordia.com>=20
				> > >=20
				> > >=20
				> > >all,=20
				> > >=20
				> > >attached is the supplemental entity
miblet=20
				> > >discussed a while ago, supporting=20
				> > >- manufacturing date=20
				> > >- additional entity info=20
				> > >the latter uses the method proposed
by dave=20
				> > >to convey information such as
CLEIs.=20
				> > >i do recall that there were some
different=20
				> > >views on whether to use an opaque
encoding=20
				> > >method versus using a dedicated
object, but=20
				> > >please read it over and provide any
comments.=20
				> > >=20
				> > >kaj=20
				> >
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
			=09
			=09
				Kaj Tesink=20
				Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
				331 Newman Springs Road=20
				Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
				Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
				Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
				Fax: (732) 758-4177
			=09
			=09
=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
			=09
			=09
			=09
			=09
=09
_______________________________________________=20
				Entmib mailing list=20
				Entmib@ietf.org=20
=09
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
			=09
			=09
=09
_______________________________________________=20
				Entmib mailing list=20
				Entmib@ietf.org=20
=09
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
		=09
		=09
			Kaj Tesink=20
			Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
			331 Newman Springs Road=20
			Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
			Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
			Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
			Fax: (732) 758-4177
		=09
		=09
=09
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/=20
			_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib=20



	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

	Kaj Tesink
	Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
	331 Newman Springs Road
	Red Bank, NJ 07701
	Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
	Tel: (732) 758-5254
	Fax: (732) 758-4177

	_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
	_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing
list Entmib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Kaj,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Regarding 2, (Please see cut and paste text), I agree with the =
string=20
approach as it is a well defined standard in ASCII displayble =
format.&nbsp; It=20
will simplify the implementation a lot as vendor like us typically just =
save it=20
as a string in the chassis/board table and never meddle with=20
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Also=20
do you think it is worth a while to also include the CLLI code support =
in this=20
MIB?&nbsp; It is used when SNMP and TL1 both exist either in the device =
or=20
proxied by one another.&nbsp; Thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>-faye</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D827561923-14042004>2. opaque object is cumbersome to=20
implement.<BR>the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by=20
Dave<BR>and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also<BR>allow=20
flexibility. but several comments pointed out that<BR>this may be too =
cumbersome=20
to implement. i attach the <BR>original proposal which was an object =
dedicated=20
to CLEI.<BR>note that my original question was posed in the context=20
of<BR>extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a=20
separate<BR>document. <BR>any strong feelings against going back to the=20
original? Dave?<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Kaj=20
  Tesink<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =

  entmib@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support =
for=20
  tcif<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly =
wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff =

    size=3D2>Hi,</FONT><BR>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face=3Darial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Yes, we=20
    have a need for this MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this=20
  done?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>i think the following issues have =
been=20
  raised:<BR>1. document title is too vague<BR>2. opaque object is =
cumbersome to=20
  implement<BR>3. acceptance as work item<BR><BR><BR>1. document title =
is too=20
  vague:<BR>current proposed title is:<BR>Definitions of Supplemental =
Entity=20
  Managed Objects<BR><BR>the current contents of the MIB module is only =
two=20
  objects<BR>- manufacturing date<BR>- additional info (an opaque object =
with=20
  one currently identified<BR>&nbsp; application)<BR><BR>i proposed this =
title=20
  to be<BR>a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the =
past<BR>b) to=20
  be compatible with possible extensions in the future<BR><BR>given the =
two=20
  current objects, and that one of them is opaque,<BR>it is hard to be =
very=20
  specific. Dan suggested something like:<BR>'Entity MIB Extensions for=20
  manufacturing date and physical module identification'<BR><BR>or=20
  perhaps:<BR><BR>Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity =
MIB<BR>(more=20
  precise but still not very illuminating)<BR><BR>I suggest we go with =
Dan's=20
  proposal.<BR><BR><BR>2. opaque object is cumbersome to =
implement.<BR>the=20
  suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave<BR>and was =
meant to=20
  accommodate several concerns and also<BR>allow flexibility. but =
several=20
  comments pointed out that<BR>this may be too cumbersome to implement. =
i attach=20
  the <BR>original proposal which was an object dedicated to =
CLEI.<BR>note that=20
  my original question was posed in the context of<BR>extending the =
Entity MIB=20
  directly instead of creating a separate<BR>document. <BR>any strong =
feelings=20
  against going back to the original? Dave?<BR><BR><BR>3. acceptance as =
work=20
  item<BR>since the original proposal i've seen several supporting =
comments=20
  <BR>but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to=20
  gauge<BR><BR>kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>---snip from initial=20
  =
posting-------------------------------------------------<BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>new=20
  objects:<BR><BR>entPhysicalCLIECode&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  OBJECT-TYPE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;=20
  read-write<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  current<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  "The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE=20
  =
Code<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode=20
  =
will<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
  be set to a zero-length string instead."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
::=3D {=20
  entPhysicalEntry xx }<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE =
"TCIF-02-004,=20
  Guideline for data=20
  =
elements<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  included in the Management Information=20
  =
Base,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF),=20
  =
09/11/2002.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment=20
  =
entities<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  of the North American telecommunications system=20
  =
for<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
  information exchange,=20
  =
ANSI.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to=20
  =
T1.213-2001,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Coded identification of equipment entities of the=20
  =
North<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  American telecommunications system for information=20
  =
exchange,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  to correct the representation of the Basic Code=20
  =
in<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
  Figure B.1, ANSI."<BR><BR>entPhysicalMfgDate&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  OBJECT-TYPE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  DateAndTime<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;=20
  read-only<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  current<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  "The manufacturing date for the physical =
entity."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  ::=3D { entPhysicalEntry xx }<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><BR><FONT face=3Darial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2>-faye</FONT>=20
    <DL><FONT face=3Dtahoma size=3D2>
      <DD>-----Original Message-----=20
      <DD>From:</B> entmib-admin@ietf.org [<A=20
      href=3D"mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org"=20
      eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</A>] On Behalf Of =
</B>Kaj=20
      Tesink=20
      <DD>Sent:</B> Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM=20
      <DD>To:</B> Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org=20
      <DD>Subject:</B> [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for =
tcif<BR><BR></FONT>
      <DD>hi Sharon,<BR><BR>
      <DD>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<BR><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">
        <DD>hi<BR><BR>
        <DD>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the =
working=20
        group=20
        <DD>wants to take this on?</DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
      <DD>i think that question is still pending;=20
      <DD>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the =

      <DD>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this=20
      <DD>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on =
this=20
      spec:<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff>
      <DD><A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-=
00.txt"=20
      =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplmib-00.txt</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></U></FONT>
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">
        <DD>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times =
so I=20
        think this=20
        <DD>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few =
concerns with=20
        some=20
        <DD>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the =
title is=20
        not=20
        <DD>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data =
types might=20
        be too=20
        <DD>opaque to be useful. </DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
      <DD>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were=20
      <DD>some good reasons for the high level title, but=20
      <DD>i'd be open to other suggestions.<BR><BR>
      <DD>as for the opaque object, the history is that=20
      <DD>the initial proposal based on an octet string=20
      <DD>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility=20
      <DD>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal=20
      <DD>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although=20
      <DD>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe=20
      <DD>by Juergen and Dan).=20
      <DD>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus=20
      <DD>dictates. <BR><BR>
      <DD>kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">
        <DD>Sharon=20
        <DD>-----Original Message-----=20
        <DD>From: Kaj Tesink [<A =
href=3D"mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com"=20
        eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</A>]=20
        <DD>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM=20
        <DD>To: entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for=20
tcif<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>Hi Dan,<BR><BR>
        <DD>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote:=20
        <DD>&gt;Kaj,=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I =
did not=20
        change my=20
        <DD>&gt;mind.=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;Two comments:=20
        <DD>&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more =
explicit=20
        about=20
        <DD>&gt;what=20
        <DD>&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really =
too=20
        generic a=20
        <DD>&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions =
for=20
        manufacturing=20
        <DD>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more =
accurately=20
        reflect the=20
        <DD>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The =
problem=20
        with=20
        <DD>adding=20
        <DD>new objects to MIBs over time is that=20
        <DD>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means =
there's a=20
        problem=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time=20
        <DD>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is =
that you=20
        dont want=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to =
minimize=20
        the number So, similar=20
        <DD>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic =
was to=20
        use this=20
        <DD>generic title, so that additional functions could still be =
added for=20
        a=20
        <DD>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in =
previous=20
        <DD>discussions=20
        <DD>there were some thoughts about some additional =
functions(?).<BR><BR>
        <DD>&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by =
me)=20
        were=20
        <DD>&gt;related=20
        <DD>&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the =
CLEI=20
        codes. Can you=20
        <DD>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the =
REFERENCE=20
        clause of=20
        <DD>&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<BR><BR>
        <DD>You're right, some of that did come up before.=20
        <DD>My understanding is the following:=20
        <DD>- the references point to documents by different standards =
groups,=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at <A =

        href=3D"http://www.atis.org/" =
eudora=3D"autourl">www.atis.org</A>=20
        <DD>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards;=20
        <DD>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual =
code=20
        <DD>In previous discussion it was pointed out that=20
        <DD>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to=20
        <DD>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft=20
        <DD>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated =
object=20
        as=20
        <DD>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the =
whole thing=20
        (no=20
        <DD>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not=20
        supported.<BR><BR>
        <DD>Kaj<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>&gt;Thanks and Regards,=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;Dan=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [<A=20
        href=3D"mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org%5DOn"=20
        eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On</A> Behalf=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for =
tcif=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; all,=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now =
available at=20

        <DD>&gt; &gt; <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm"=20
        =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entit=
y-supplm</A>=20

        <DD>&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error). =

        <DD>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item.=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this =
work=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated =
some=20
        tentative=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional =
views would=20
        be helpful=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; kaj=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version =
4.3.2=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink =
&lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;all,=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs.=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments.=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj=20
        <DD>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><BR>
        <DD>Kaj Tesink=20
        <DD>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
        <DD>331 Newman Springs Road=20
        <DD>Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
        <DD>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
        <DD>Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
        <DD>Fax: (732) 758-4177<BR><BR>
        =
<DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><BR><BR><BR>
        <DD>_______________________________________________=20
        <DD>Entmib mailing list=20
        <DD>Entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD><A href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
        =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A><BR><=
BR>
        <DD>_______________________________________________=20
        <DD>Entmib mailing list=20
        <DD>Entmib@ietf.org=20
        <DD><A href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
        =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A></DD>=
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
      <DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<BR><BR>
      <DD>Kaj Tesink=20
      <DD>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.=20
      <DD>331 Newman Springs Road=20
      <DD>Red Bank, NJ 07701=20
      <DD>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com=20
      <DD>Tel: (732) 758-5254=20
      <DD>Fax: (732) 758-4177<BR><BR>
      <DD>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/=20
      <DD>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing =
list=20
      Entmib@ietf.org <A =
href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib"=20
      =
eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</A>=20
  </DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>
  <DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Kaj Tesink</DIV>
  <DIV>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</DIV>
  <DIV>331 Newman Springs Road</DIV>
  <DIV>Red Bank, NJ 07701</DIV>
  <DIV>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com</DIV>
  <DIV>Tel: (732) 758-5254</DIV>
  <DIV>Fax: (732) 758-4177</DIV><BR>
  =
<DIV>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/</DIV>__________=
_____________________________________=20
  Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org=20
  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
------_=_NextPart_001_01C42277.D2434F78--

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Thu Apr 15 01:21:16 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA18475
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:21:16 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDzFE-0005p6-OT; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:17:00 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDzEE-0005cG-0N
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:58 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA18351
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:56 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDzEA-0002rL-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:54 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDzDD-0002oF-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:14:58 -0400
Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDzCi-0002lR-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:14:24 -0400
Received: from NB5.dsperkins.com (shell4.bayarea.net [209.128.82.1])
	by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3F5EG228610;
	Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:14:16 -0700
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040414212356.02415658@127.0.0.1>
X-Sender: dperkins@127.0.0.1
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:13:57 -0700
To: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040414182947.02953c90@128.96.81.11>
References: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalne tworks.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="=====================_1664672702==.ALT"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

--=====================_1664672702==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

HI,

Here is what I would do....
* I would just add the objects to the existing entity physical table,
    that is table entPhysicalTable. If this is not acceptable, then I
    would reluctantly create a table that augmented the entity
    physical table (not create a sparse augments).
* Here is the augmented table definition (which I would rather not
    have to create)

entPhysicalSupplTable OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX  SEQUENCE OF EntPhysicalSupplEntry
    MAX-ACCESS  not-accessible
    STATUS  current
    DESCRIPTION
      "The table for supplementary objects to table entPhysicalTable."
    ::= { entityPhysical 2 } -- note, this comes after entPhysicalTable

entPhysicalSupplEntry OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX  EntPhysicalSupplEntry
    MAX-ACCESS  not-accessible
    STATUS  current
    DESCRIPTION
      "An entry in the entPhysicalSupplTable.  There is a one-to-one
      relationship with entries in table entPhysicalTable."
    AUGMENTS { entPhysicalEntry }
        ::= { entPhysicalSupplTable 1 }

EntPhysicalSupplEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
    entPhysicalSupplManfactDate DateAndTimeOrZero,
    entPhysicalSupplAltTypes Utf8String 
    }


entPhysicalSupplManfactDate  OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX      DateAndTimeOrZero
    MAX-ACCESS  read-only  -- maybe this should be w/r like serial number
    STATUS      current
    DESCRIPTION
      "The manufacturing date for the physical entity, or 'zero'
      if the date is unknown or not appropriate."
    ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 1 }

entPhysicalSupplAltTypes OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX      Utf8String
    MAX-ACCESS  read-write
    STATUS      current
    DESCRIPTION
          "A zero length string if the value is unknown or not
          appropriate; or one, or more pairs of tag and value
          which provide alternative identification of the entity
          in addition to the value of object entPhysicalVendorType.
          This object was added so that one or more industry
          sectors could add sector specific identification codes.
          It is expected that typically, at most a single sector
          identification code will be present. However, managers
          must cope with a list of tag-value pairs.
          The format of the value (when not a zero length string) is:
            <pair>[;<pair>]...
          where the format of <pair> is
            <id>:<value>
          where the values for <id> are short strings managed by IANA,
          and <value> follows the rules for an <id> definition,
          and may include any character other than ';'. The first
          defined <id> is 'CLEI', and when so, the values for
          <value> are 1 to 10 characters long as defined by 
          TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
          included in the Management Information Base,
          Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.

          An example value is 'CLEI:ABCDEFGHIJ'"
    ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 2 }




At 07:01 PM 4/14/2004 -0400, Kaj Tesink wrote:
>At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly wrote:
>>Hi,
>> 
>>Yes, we have a need for this MIB.  Any chance of getting this done?
>
>
>i think the following issues have been raised:
>1. document title is too vague
>2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement
>3. acceptance as work item
>
>
>1. document title is too vague:
>current proposed title is:
>Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects
>
>the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects
>- manufacturing date
>- additional info (an opaque object with one currently identified
>  application)
>
>i proposed this title to be
>a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past
>b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future
>
>given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,
>it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:
>'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical module identification'
>
>or perhaps:
>
>Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB
>(more precise but still not very illuminating)
>
>I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.
>
>
>2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.
>the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave
>and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also
>allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that
>this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the 
>original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.
>note that my original question was posed in the context of
>extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate
>document. 
>any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?
>
>
>3. acceptance as work item
>since the original proposal i've seen several supporting comments 
>but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge
>
>kaj
>
>
>
>
>
>---snip from initial posting-------------------------------------------------
>
>
>=============================================================
>new objects:
>
>entPhysicalCLIECode   OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-write
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>             "The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE Code
>             is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode will
>             be set to a zero-length string instead."
>     ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }
>     REFERENCE "TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
>             included in the Management Information Base,
>             Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.
>             ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment entities
>             of the North American telecommunications system for
>             information exchange, ANSI.
>             ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,
>             Coded identification of equipment entities of the North
>             American telecommunications system for information exchange,
>             to correct the representation of the Basic Code in
>             Figure B.1, ANSI."
>
>entPhysicalMfgDate   OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      DateAndTime
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-only
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>             "The manufacturing date for the physical entity."
>     ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }
>
>
>> 
>>-faye  
>>-----Original Message----- 
>>From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kaj Tesink 
>>Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM 
>>To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org 
>>Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
>>
>>hi Sharon,
>>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:
>>
>>>hi
>>>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working group 
>>>wants to take this on?
>>
>>i think that question is still pending; 
>>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the 
>>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this 
>>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this spec:
>>
>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I think this 
>>>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with some 
>>>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is not 
>>>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be too 
>>>opaque to be useful. 
>>
>>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were 
>>some good reasons for the high level title, but 
>>i'd be open to other suggestions.
>>as for the opaque object, the history is that 
>>the initial proposal based on an octet string 
>>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility 
>>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal 
>>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although 
>>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe 
>>by Juergen and Dan). 
>>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus 
>>dictates. 
>>kaj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Sharon 
>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com] 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM 
>>>To: entmib@ietf.org 
>>>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Dan,
>>>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: 
>>>>Kaj, 
>>>> 
>>>>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change my 
>>>>mind. 
>>>> 
>>>>Two comments: 
>>>>1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit about 
>>>>what 
>>>>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a 
>>>>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing 
>>>>and physical modules identification'?
>>>
>>>
>>>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect the 
>>>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
>>>adding 
>>>new objects to MIBs over time is that 
>>>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a problem 
>>>    with advancing the spec over time 
>>>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont want 
>>>    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the number So, similar 
>>>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this 
>>>generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for a 
>>>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
>>>discussions 
>>>there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).
>>>
>>>>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
>>>>related 
>>>>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can you 
>>>>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of 
>>>>the cleiCode object freely available?
>>>You're right, some of that did come up before. 
>>>My understanding is the following: 
>>>- the references point to documents by different standards groups, 
>>>   and i think are available for a small fee at www.atis.org 
>>>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards; 
>>>   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code 
>>>In previous discussion it was pointed out that 
>>>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to 
>>>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft 
>>>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object as 
>>>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing (no 
>>>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.
>>>Kaj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks and Regards, 
>>>> 
>>>>Dan 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> > -----Original Message----- 
>>>> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf 
>>>> > Of Kaj Tesink 
>>>> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM 
>>>> > To: entmib@ietf.org 
>>>> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > all, 
>>>> > 
>>>> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
>>>> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm 
>>>> > ib-00.txt 
>>>> > 
>>>> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error). 
>>>> > in order to move this forward the WG would need 
>>>> > to accept this as a formal work item. 
>>>> > 
>>>> > so we'd appreciate comments on 
>>>> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this work 
>>>> > b) any technical comments 
>>>> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative 
>>>> > support, restating this or any new/additional views would be helpful 
>>>> > 
>>>> > kaj 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11 
>>>> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 
>>>> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500 
>>>> > >To: entmib@ietf.org 
>>>> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com> 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > >all, 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet 
>>>> > >discussed a while ago, supporting 
>>>> > >- manufacturing date 
>>>> > >- additional entity info 
>>>> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave 
>>>> > >to convey information such as CLEIs. 
>>>> > >i do recall that there were some different 
>>>> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding 
>>>> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but 
>>>> > >please read it over and provide any comments. 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > >kaj 
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>>>Kaj Tesink 
>>>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
>>>331 Newman Springs Road 
>>>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
>>>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
>>>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
>>>Fax: (732) 758-4177
>>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________ 
>>>Entmib mailing list 
>>>Entmib@ietf.org 
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
>>>_______________________________________________ 
>>>Entmib mailing list 
>>>Entmib@ietf.org 
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>>Kaj Tesink 
>>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
>>331 Newman Springs Road 
>>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
>>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
>>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
>>Fax: (732) 758-4177
>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ 
>>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib 
>
>
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>
>Kaj Tesink
>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.

Regards,
/david t. perkins 
--=====================_1664672702==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
HI,<br><br>
Here is what I would do....<br>
* I would just add the objects to the existing entity physical
table,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that is table entPhysicalTable. If this is not
acceptable, then I<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; would reluctantly create a table that augmented the
entity<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; physical table (not create a sparse augments).<br>
* Here is the augmented table definition (which I would rather not<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have to create)<br><br>
<pre>entPhysicalSupplTable OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp; SEQUENCE OF EntPhysicalSupplEntry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; not-accessible
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;The table for supplementary objects
to table entPhysicalTable.&quot;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entityPhysical 2 } -- note, this comes after
entPhysicalTable

entPhysicalSupplEntry OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp; EntPhysicalSupplEntry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; not-accessible
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;An entry in the
entPhysicalSupplTable.&nbsp; There is a one-to-one
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; relationship with entries in table
entPhysicalTable.&quot;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AUGMENTS { entPhysicalEntry }
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalSupplTable 1
}

EntPhysicalSupplEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entPhysicalSupplManfactDate DateAndTimeOrZero,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entPhysicalSupplAltTypes </pre>Utf8String <br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; }


entPhysicalSupplManfactDate&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
DateAndTimeOrZero
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-only&nbsp; -- maybe this should
be w/r like serial number
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;The manufacturing date for the
physical entity, or 'zero'
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if the date is unknown or not
appropriate.&quot;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 1 }

entPhysicalSupplAltTypes OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</pre>Utf8String<br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-write
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;A zero
length string if the value is unknown or not
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; appropriate; or
one, or more pairs of tag and value
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which provide
alternative identification of the entity
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in addition to the
value of object entPhysicalVendorType.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This object was
added so that one or more industry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sectors could add
sector specific identification codes.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is expected
that typically, at most a single sector
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; identification
code will be present. However, managers
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; must cope with a
list of tag-value pairs.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The format of the
value (when not a zero length string) is:
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;pair&gt;[;&lt;pair&gt;]...
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; where the format
of &lt;pair&gt; is
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;id&gt;:&lt;value&gt;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; where the values
for &lt;id&gt; are short strings managed by IANA,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and &lt;value&gt;
follows the rules for an &lt;id&gt; definition,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and may include
any character other than ';'. The first
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; defined &lt;id&gt;
is 'CLEI', and when so, the values for
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;value&gt; are
1 to 10 characters long as defined by 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; TCIF-02-004,
Guideline for data elements
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; included in the
Management Information Base,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Telecommunications
Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.

</pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; An example
value is 'CLEI:ABCDEFGHIJ'&quot;<br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 2 }




</pre>At 07:01 PM 4/14/2004 -0400, Kaj Tesink wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Hi,</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Yes, we have a need for this
MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this done?</font></blockquote><br><br>
i think the following issues have been raised:<br>
1. document title is too vague<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br><br>
<br>
1. document title is too vague:<br>
current proposed title is:<br>
Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects<br><br>
the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects<br>
- manufacturing date<br>
- additional info (an opaque object with one currently identified<br>
&nbsp; application)<br><br>
i proposed this title to be<br>
a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past<br>
b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future<br><br>
given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,<br>
it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:<br>
'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical module
identification'<br><br>
or perhaps:<br><br>
Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB<br>
(more precise but still not very illuminating)<br><br>
I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.<br><br>
<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.<br>
the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave<br>
and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also<br>
allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that<br>
this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the <br>
original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.<br>
note that my original question was posed in the context of<br>
extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate<br>
document. <br>
any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?<br><br>
<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br>
since the original proposal i've seen several supporting comments <br>
but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge<br><br>
kaj<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
---snip from initial
posting-------------------------------------------------<br><br>
<br>
=============================================================<br>
new objects:<br><br>
entPhysicalCLIECode&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-write<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE Code<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode will<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
be set to a zero-length string instead.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE &quot;TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data
elements<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
included in the Management Information Base,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment entities<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
of the North American telecommunications system for<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
information exchange, ANSI.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Coded identification of equipment entities of the North<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
American telecommunications system for information exchange,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
to correct the representation of the Basic Code in<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Figure B.1, ANSI.&quot;<br><br>
entPhysicalMfgDate&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
DateAndTime<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-only<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The manufacturing date for the physical entity.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">-faye</font> 
<dl>
<dd><font face="tahoma" size=2>-----Original Message----- 
<dd>From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Kaj Tesink 
<dd>Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM 
<dd>To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br><br>
</font>
<dd>hi Sharon,<br>

<dd>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd>hi<br>

<dd>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working
group 
<dd>wants to take this on?</blockquote><br>

<dd>i think that question is still pending; 
<dd>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the 
<dd>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this 
<dd>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this
spec:<br><br>

<dd><font color="#0000FF"><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
</font><blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I
think this 
<dd>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with
some 
<dd>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is
not 
<dd>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might
be too 
<dd>opaque to be useful. </blockquote><br>

<dd>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were 
<dd>some good reasons for the high level title, but 
<dd>i'd be open to other suggestions.<br>

<dd>as for the opaque object, the history is that 
<dd>the initial proposal based on an octet string 
<dd>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility 
<dd>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal 
<dd>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although 
<dd>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe 
<dd>by Juergen and Dan). 
<dd>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus 
<dd>dictates. <br>

<dd>kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd>Sharon 
<dd>-----Original Message----- 
<dd>From: Kaj Tesink
[<a href="mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</a>] 
<dd>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM 
<dd>To: entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>Hi Dan,<br>

<dd>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: 
<dd>&gt;Kaj, 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not
change my 
<dd>&gt;mind. 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt;Two comments: 
<dd>&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit
about 
<dd>&gt;what 
<dd>&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too
generic a 
<dd>&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for
manufacturing 
<dd>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately
reflect the 
<dd>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
<dd>adding 
<dd>new objects to MIBs over time is that 
<dd>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a
problem 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time 
<dd>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you
dont want 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize
the number So, similar 
<dd>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use
this 
<dd>generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for
a 
<dd>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
<dd>discussions 
<dd>there were some thoughts about some additional 
functions(?).<br><br>

<dd>&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
<dd>&gt;related 
<dd>&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes.
Can you 
<dd>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE
clause of 
<dd>&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<br>

<dd>You're right, some of that did come up before. 
<dd>My understanding is the following: 
<dd>- the references point to documents by different standards groups, 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at
<a href="http://www.atis.org/" eudora="autourl">www.atis.org</a> 
<dd>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards; 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code 
<dd>In previous discussion it was pointed out that 
<dd>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to 
<dd>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft 
<dd>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object
as 
<dd>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing
(no 
<dd>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.<br>

<dd>Kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>&gt;Thanks and Regards, 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt;Dan 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- 
<dd>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</a>]On
Behalf 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM 
<dd>&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; all, 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm</a> 
<dd>&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error). 
<dd>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need 
<dd>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item. 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on 
<dd>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this work 
<dd>&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments 
<dd>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some
tentative 
<dd>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional views would
be helpful 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; kaj 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;all, 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs. 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments. 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj 
<dd>&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink 
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road 
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_______________________________________________ 
<dd>Entmib mailing list 
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org 
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a><br>

<dd>_______________________________________________ 
<dd>Entmib mailing list 
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org 
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a></blockquote>
<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink 
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road 
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ 
<dd>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a>
</blockquote>
</dl><br><br>
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br><br>
Kaj Tesink<br>
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</blockquote><br>
Regards,<br>
/david t. perkins</body>
</html>

--=====================_1664672702==.ALT--


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Thu Apr 15 01:26:13 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA18668
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:26:13 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDzIu-0006fv-AO
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:20:52 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3F5KmHs025654
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:20:48 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDzFE-0005p6-OT; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:17:00 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BDzEE-0005cG-0N
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:58 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA18351
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:56 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDzEA-0002rL-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:15:54 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDzDD-0002oF-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:14:58 -0400
Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BDzCi-0002lR-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 01:14:24 -0400
Received: from NB5.dsperkins.com (shell4.bayarea.net [209.128.82.1])
	by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3F5EG228610;
	Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:14:16 -0700
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040414212356.02415658@127.0.0.1>
X-Sender: dperkins@127.0.0.1
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:13:57 -0700
To: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040414182947.02953c90@128.96.81.11>
References: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalne tworks.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="=====================_1664672702==.ALT"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,
	HTML_MESSAGE,NO_OBLIGATION autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

--=====================_1664672702==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

HI,

Here is what I would do....
* I would just add the objects to the existing entity physical table,
    that is table entPhysicalTable. If this is not acceptable, then I
    would reluctantly create a table that augmented the entity
    physical table (not create a sparse augments).
* Here is the augmented table definition (which I would rather not
    have to create)

entPhysicalSupplTable OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX  SEQUENCE OF EntPhysicalSupplEntry
    MAX-ACCESS  not-accessible
    STATUS  current
    DESCRIPTION
      "The table for supplementary objects to table entPhysicalTable."
    ::= { entityPhysical 2 } -- note, this comes after entPhysicalTable

entPhysicalSupplEntry OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX  EntPhysicalSupplEntry
    MAX-ACCESS  not-accessible
    STATUS  current
    DESCRIPTION
      "An entry in the entPhysicalSupplTable.  There is a one-to-one
      relationship with entries in table entPhysicalTable."
    AUGMENTS { entPhysicalEntry }
        ::= { entPhysicalSupplTable 1 }

EntPhysicalSupplEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
    entPhysicalSupplManfactDate DateAndTimeOrZero,
    entPhysicalSupplAltTypes Utf8String 
    }


entPhysicalSupplManfactDate  OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX      DateAndTimeOrZero
    MAX-ACCESS  read-only  -- maybe this should be w/r like serial number
    STATUS      current
    DESCRIPTION
      "The manufacturing date for the physical entity, or 'zero'
      if the date is unknown or not appropriate."
    ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 1 }

entPhysicalSupplAltTypes OBJECT-TYPE
    SYNTAX      Utf8String
    MAX-ACCESS  read-write
    STATUS      current
    DESCRIPTION
          "A zero length string if the value is unknown or not
          appropriate; or one, or more pairs of tag and value
          which provide alternative identification of the entity
          in addition to the value of object entPhysicalVendorType.
          This object was added so that one or more industry
          sectors could add sector specific identification codes.
          It is expected that typically, at most a single sector
          identification code will be present. However, managers
          must cope with a list of tag-value pairs.
          The format of the value (when not a zero length string) is:
            <pair>[;<pair>]...
          where the format of <pair> is
            <id>:<value>
          where the values for <id> are short strings managed by IANA,
          and <value> follows the rules for an <id> definition,
          and may include any character other than ';'. The first
          defined <id> is 'CLEI', and when so, the values for
          <value> are 1 to 10 characters long as defined by 
          TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
          included in the Management Information Base,
          Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.

          An example value is 'CLEI:ABCDEFGHIJ'"
    ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 2 }




At 07:01 PM 4/14/2004 -0400, Kaj Tesink wrote:
>At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly wrote:
>>Hi,
>> 
>>Yes, we have a need for this MIB.  Any chance of getting this done?
>
>
>i think the following issues have been raised:
>1. document title is too vague
>2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement
>3. acceptance as work item
>
>
>1. document title is too vague:
>current proposed title is:
>Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects
>
>the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects
>- manufacturing date
>- additional info (an opaque object with one currently identified
>  application)
>
>i proposed this title to be
>a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past
>b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future
>
>given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,
>it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:
>'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical module identification'
>
>or perhaps:
>
>Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB
>(more precise but still not very illuminating)
>
>I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.
>
>
>2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.
>the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave
>and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also
>allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that
>this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the 
>original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.
>note that my original question was posed in the context of
>extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate
>document. 
>any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?
>
>
>3. acceptance as work item
>since the original proposal i've seen several supporting comments 
>but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge
>
>kaj
>
>
>
>
>
>---snip from initial posting-------------------------------------------------
>
>
>=============================================================
>new objects:
>
>entPhysicalCLIECode   OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-write
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>             "The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE Code
>             is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode will
>             be set to a zero-length string instead."
>     ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }
>     REFERENCE "TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
>             included in the Management Information Base,
>             Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.
>             ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment entities
>             of the North American telecommunications system for
>             information exchange, ANSI.
>             ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,
>             Coded identification of equipment entities of the North
>             American telecommunications system for information exchange,
>             to correct the representation of the Basic Code in
>             Figure B.1, ANSI."
>
>entPhysicalMfgDate   OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      DateAndTime
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-only
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>             "The manufacturing date for the physical entity."
>     ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }
>
>
>> 
>>-faye  
>>-----Original Message----- 
>>From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kaj Tesink 
>>Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM 
>>To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org 
>>Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
>>
>>hi Sharon,
>>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:
>>
>>>hi
>>>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working group 
>>>wants to take this on?
>>
>>i think that question is still pending; 
>>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the 
>>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this 
>>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this spec:
>>
>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I think this 
>>>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with some 
>>>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is not 
>>>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might be too 
>>>opaque to be useful. 
>>
>>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were 
>>some good reasons for the high level title, but 
>>i'd be open to other suggestions.
>>as for the opaque object, the history is that 
>>the initial proposal based on an octet string 
>>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility 
>>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal 
>>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although 
>>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe 
>>by Juergen and Dan). 
>>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus 
>>dictates. 
>>kaj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Sharon 
>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>From: Kaj Tesink [mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com] 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM 
>>>To: entmib@ietf.org 
>>>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Dan,
>>>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: 
>>>>Kaj, 
>>>> 
>>>>I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not change my 
>>>>mind. 
>>>> 
>>>>Two comments: 
>>>>1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit about 
>>>>what 
>>>>is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too generic a 
>>>>title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing 
>>>>and physical modules identification'?
>>>
>>>
>>>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately reflect the 
>>>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
>>>adding 
>>>new objects to MIBs over time is that 
>>>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a problem 
>>>    with advancing the spec over time 
>>>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you dont want 
>>>    all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize the number So, similar 
>>>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use this 
>>>generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for a 
>>>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
>>>discussions 
>>>there were some thoughts about some additional functions(?).
>>>
>>>>2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
>>>>related 
>>>>to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes. Can you 
>>>>comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE clause of 
>>>>the cleiCode object freely available?
>>>You're right, some of that did come up before. 
>>>My understanding is the following: 
>>>- the references point to documents by different standards groups, 
>>>   and i think are available for a small fee at www.atis.org 
>>>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards; 
>>>   Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code 
>>>In previous discussion it was pointed out that 
>>>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to 
>>>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft 
>>>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object as 
>>>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing (no 
>>>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.
>>>Kaj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks and Regards, 
>>>> 
>>>>Dan 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> > -----Original Message----- 
>>>> > From: entmib-admin@ietf.org [mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf 
>>>> > Of Kaj Tesink 
>>>> > Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM 
>>>> > To: entmib@ietf.org 
>>>> > Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > all, 
>>>> > 
>>>> > the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
>>>> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm 
>>>> > ib-00.txt 
>>>> > 
>>>> > pl note that the file name was changed (my error). 
>>>> > in order to move this forward the WG would need 
>>>> > to accept this as a formal work item. 
>>>> > 
>>>> > so we'd appreciate comments on 
>>>> > a) whether there is support/objection to do this work 
>>>> > b) any technical comments 
>>>> > while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some tentative 
>>>> > support, restating this or any new/additional views would be helpful 
>>>> > 
>>>> > kaj 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > >X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11 
>>>> > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 
>>>> > >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500 
>>>> > >To: entmib@ietf.org 
>>>> > >From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com> 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > >all, 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > >attached is the supplemental entity miblet 
>>>> > >discussed a while ago, supporting 
>>>> > >- manufacturing date 
>>>> > >- additional entity info 
>>>> > >the latter uses the method proposed by dave 
>>>> > >to convey information such as CLEIs. 
>>>> > >i do recall that there were some different 
>>>> > >views on whether to use an opaque encoding 
>>>> > >method versus using a dedicated object, but 
>>>> > >please read it over and provide any comments. 
>>>> > > 
>>>> > >kaj 
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>>>Kaj Tesink 
>>>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
>>>331 Newman Springs Road 
>>>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
>>>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
>>>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
>>>Fax: (732) 758-4177
>>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________ 
>>>Entmib mailing list 
>>>Entmib@ietf.org 
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
>>>_______________________________________________ 
>>>Entmib mailing list 
>>>Entmib@ietf.org 
>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib
>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>>Kaj Tesink 
>>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
>>331 Newman Springs Road 
>>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
>>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
>>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
>>Fax: (732) 758-4177
>>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ 
>>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing list Entmib@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib 
>
>
>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
>
>Kaj Tesink
>Telcordia Technologies. Inc.

Regards,
/david t. perkins 
--=====================_1664672702==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
HI,<br><br>
Here is what I would do....<br>
* I would just add the objects to the existing entity physical
table,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that is table entPhysicalTable. If this is not
acceptable, then I<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; would reluctantly create a table that augmented the
entity<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; physical table (not create a sparse augments).<br>
* Here is the augmented table definition (which I would rather not<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; have to create)<br><br>
<pre>entPhysicalSupplTable OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp; SEQUENCE OF EntPhysicalSupplEntry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; not-accessible
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;The table for supplementary objects
to table entPhysicalTable.&quot;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entityPhysical 2 } -- note, this comes after
entPhysicalTable

entPhysicalSupplEntry OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp; EntPhysicalSupplEntry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; not-accessible
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;An entry in the
entPhysicalSupplTable.&nbsp; There is a one-to-one
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; relationship with entries in table
entPhysicalTable.&quot;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AUGMENTS { entPhysicalEntry }
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalSupplTable 1
}

EntPhysicalSupplEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entPhysicalSupplManfactDate DateAndTimeOrZero,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entPhysicalSupplAltTypes </pre>Utf8String <br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; }


entPhysicalSupplManfactDate&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
DateAndTimeOrZero
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-only&nbsp; -- maybe this should
be w/r like serial number
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;The manufacturing date for the
physical entity, or 'zero'
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if the date is unknown or not
appropriate.&quot;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 1 }

entPhysicalSupplAltTypes OBJECT-TYPE
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</pre>Utf8String<br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-write
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; current
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;A zero
length string if the value is unknown or not
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; appropriate; or
one, or more pairs of tag and value
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which provide
alternative identification of the entity
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in addition to the
value of object entPhysicalVendorType.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This object was
added so that one or more industry
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sectors could add
sector specific identification codes.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is expected
that typically, at most a single sector
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; identification
code will be present. However, managers
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; must cope with a
list of tag-value pairs.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The format of the
value (when not a zero length string) is:
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;pair&gt;[;&lt;pair&gt;]...
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; where the format
of &lt;pair&gt; is
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&lt;id&gt;:&lt;value&gt;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; where the values
for &lt;id&gt; are short strings managed by IANA,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and &lt;value&gt;
follows the rules for an &lt;id&gt; definition,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and may include
any character other than ';'. The first
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; defined &lt;id&gt;
is 'CLEI', and when so, the values for
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;value&gt; are
1 to 10 characters long as defined by 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; TCIF-02-004,
Guideline for data elements
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; included in the
Management Information Base,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Telecommunications
Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.

</pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; An example
value is 'CLEI:ABCDEFGHIJ'&quot;<br>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 2 }




</pre>At 07:01 PM 4/14/2004 -0400, Kaj Tesink wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>At 03:34 PM 4/9/2004 -0700, Faye Ly
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Hi,</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Yes, we have a need for this
MIB.&nbsp; Any chance of getting this done?</font></blockquote><br><br>
i think the following issues have been raised:<br>
1. document title is too vague<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br><br>
<br>
1. document title is too vague:<br>
current proposed title is:<br>
Definitions of Supplemental Entity Managed Objects<br><br>
the current contents of the MIB module is only two objects<br>
- manufacturing date<br>
- additional info (an opaque object with one currently identified<br>
&nbsp; application)<br><br>
i proposed this title to be<br>
a) in line with similar documentation techniques in the past<br>
b) to be compatible with possible extensions in the future<br><br>
given the two current objects, and that one of them is opaque,<br>
it is hard to be very specific. Dan suggested something like:<br>
'Entity MIB Extensions for manufacturing date and physical module
identification'<br><br>
or perhaps:<br><br>
Extensions to entPhysicalTable of the Entity MIB<br>
(more precise but still not very illuminating)<br><br>
I suggest we go with Dan's proposal.<br><br>
<br>
2. opaque object is cumbersome to implement.<br>
the suggested construct was based on neat suggestions by Dave<br>
and was meant to accommodate several concerns and also<br>
allow flexibility. but several comments pointed out that<br>
this may be too cumbersome to implement. i attach the <br>
original proposal which was an object dedicated to CLEI.<br>
note that my original question was posed in the context of<br>
extending the Entity MIB directly instead of creating a separate<br>
document. <br>
any strong feelings against going back to the original? Dave?<br><br>
<br>
3. acceptance as work item<br>
since the original proposal i've seen several supporting comments <br>
but i leave this to the WG chair and AD to gauge<br><br>
kaj<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
---snip from initial
posting-------------------------------------------------<br><br>
<br>
=============================================================<br>
new objects:<br><br>
entPhysicalCLIECode&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..10))<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-write<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The CLIE Code for the physical entity. If a CLIE Code<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
is unknown or non-existent, the entPhysicalCLIECode will<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
be set to a zero-length string instead.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE &quot;TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data
elements<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
included in the Management Information Base,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213-2001, Coded identification of equipment entities<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
of the North American telecommunications system for<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
information exchange, ANSI.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
ANSI T1.213a-2001, Supplement to T1.213-2001,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Coded identification of equipment entities of the North<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
American telecommunications system for information exchange,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
to correct the representation of the Basic Code in<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Figure B.1, ANSI.&quot;<br><br>
entPhysicalMfgDate&nbsp;&nbsp; OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
DateAndTime<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp; read-only<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
current<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;The manufacturing date for the physical entity.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::= { entPhysicalEntry xx }<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">-faye</font> 
<dl>
<dd><font face="tahoma" size=2>-----Original Message----- 
<dd>From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Kaj Tesink 
<dd>Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:38 AM 
<dd>To: Sharon Chisholm; entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>Subject: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br><br>
</font>
<dd>hi Sharon,<br>

<dd>At 12:56 PM 4/1/2004 -0500, Sharon Chisholm wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd>hi<br>

<dd>Where are we in this discussion? Have we decided whether the working
group 
<dd>wants to take this on?</blockquote><br>

<dd>i think that question is still pending; 
<dd>we asked for input and expressions of interest well before the 
<dd>last ietf meeting but there has not been much traffic on this 
<dd>since that request. so let me repeat the request for input on this
spec:<br><br>

<dd><font color="#0000FF"><a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplmib-00.txt</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
</font><blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd>This is a requirement I've heard bounced around a few times so I
think this 
<dd>is worth trying to address, but like Dan I have a few concerns with
some 
<dd>aspects of the proposed solution. As he has mentioned, the title is
not 
<dd>sufficiently descriptive. In addition, I think the data types might
be too 
<dd>opaque to be useful. </blockquote><br>

<dd>as per my comments based on Dan's note, there were 
<dd>some good reasons for the high level title, but 
<dd>i'd be open to other suggestions.<br>

<dd>as for the opaque object, the history is that 
<dd>the initial proposal based on an octet string 
<dd>syntax invoked a discussion about flexibility 
<dd>and some other aspects, and resulted in a proposal 
<dd>by Dave for the current opaque construct, although 
<dd>some other comments expressed reservations (i believe 
<dd>by Juergen and Dan). 
<dd>i'm willing to go with whatever the rough consensus 
<dd>dictates. <br>

<dd>kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>
<dd>Sharon 
<dd>-----Original Message----- 
<dd>From: Kaj Tesink
[<a href="mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com" eudora="autourl">mailto:kaj@research.telcordia.com</a>] 
<dd>Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:25 AM 
<dd>To: entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>Subject: RE: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>Hi Dan,<br>

<dd>At 10:03 PM 2/10/2004 +0200, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: 
<dd>&gt;Kaj, 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt;I was among the ones who supported doing this work. I did not
change my 
<dd>&gt;mind. 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt;Two comments: 
<dd>&gt;1. I would like the title of the document to be more explicit
about 
<dd>&gt;what 
<dd>&gt;is really provided by this MIB. 'Supplemental' is really too
generic a 
<dd>&gt;title - what about something like 'Entity MIB Extensions for
manufacturing 
<dd>&gt;and physical modules identification'?<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>I see what you're trying to do. While this would more accurately
reflect the 
<dd>content, there is the issue of future compatibility. The problem with 
<dd>adding 
<dd>new objects to MIBs over time is that 
<dd>a) either you add to the original spec; but this means there's a
problem 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with advancing the spec over time 
<dd>b) or you define supplemental specs; the problem here is that you
dont want 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; all sorts of miblets around; you want to minimize
the number So, similar 
<dd>as what we did for ATM, and attempted for DS1s, the tactic was to use
this 
<dd>generic title, so that additional functions could still be added for
a 
<dd>while. I agree its not perfect. I also thought that in previous 
<dd>discussions 
<dd>there were some thoughts about some additional 
functions(?).<br><br>

<dd>&gt;2. Some of the concerns expressed in the meeting (not by me) were 
<dd>&gt;related 
<dd>&gt;to the availability and the proprietary nature of the CLEI codes.
Can you 
<dd>&gt;comment on these? Are the documents mentioned in the REFERENCE
clause of 
<dd>&gt;the cleiCode object freely available?<br>

<dd>You're right, some of that did come up before. 
<dd>My understanding is the following: 
<dd>- the references point to documents by different standards groups, 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; and i think are available for a small fee at
<a href="http://www.atis.org/" eudora="autourl">www.atis.org</a> 
<dd>- CLEI codes are defined in those standards; 
<dd>&nbsp;&nbsp; Telcordia is the registrar to obtain an actual code 
<dd>In previous discussion it was pointed out that 
<dd>while CLEIs are in wide use, there is no obligation to 
<dd>use them; I've tried to reflect that in the draft 
<dd>in two ways: (a) use an opaque object instead of a dedicated object
as 
<dd>proposed by Dave, and (b) language for the case that the whole thing
(no 
<dd>CLEI nor any other application of the object) is not supported.<br>

<dd>Kaj<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>&gt;Thanks and Regards, 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt;Dan 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- 
<dd>&gt; &gt; From: entmib-admin@ietf.org
[<a href="mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org" eudora="autourl">mailto:entmib-admin@ietf.org</a>]On
Behalf 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Of Kaj Tesink 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Sent: 10 February, 2004 6:48 PM 
<dd>&gt; &gt; To: entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>&gt; &gt; Subject: Fwd: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; all, 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; the draft i sent to the list last week is now available at 
<dd>&gt; &gt;
<a href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tesink-entity-supplm</a> 
<dd>&gt; &gt; ib-00.txt 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; pl note that the file name was changed (my error). 
<dd>&gt; &gt; in order to move this forward the WG would need 
<dd>&gt; &gt; to accept this as a formal work item. 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; so we'd appreciate comments on 
<dd>&gt; &gt; a) whether there is support/objection to do this work 
<dd>&gt; &gt; b) any technical comments 
<dd>&gt; &gt; while the minneapolis meeting already indicated some
tentative 
<dd>&gt; &gt; support, restating this or any new/additional views would
be helpful 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; kaj 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:54 -0500 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;To: entmib@ietf.org 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Kaj Tesink &lt;kaj@research.telcordia.com&gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;all, 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;attached is the supplemental entity miblet 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;discussed a while ago, supporting 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- manufacturing date 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;- additional entity info 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;the latter uses the method proposed by dave 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;to convey information such as CLEIs. 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;i do recall that there were some different 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;views on whether to use an opaque encoding 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;method versus using a dedicated object, but 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;please read it over and provide any comments. 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt; 
<dd>&gt; &gt; &gt;kaj 
<dd>&gt; &gt;<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink 
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road 
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>
<br>
<br>

<dd>_______________________________________________ 
<dd>Entmib mailing list 
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org 
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a><br>

<dd>_______________________________________________ 
<dd>Entmib mailing list 
<dd>Entmib@ietf.org 
<dd><a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a></blockquote>
<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br>

<dd>Kaj Tesink 
<dd>Telcordia Technologies. Inc. 
<dd>331 Newman Springs Road 
<dd>Red Bank, NJ 07701 
<dd>Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com 
<dd>Tel: (732) 758-5254 
<dd>Fax: (732) 758-4177<br>

<dd>_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ 
<dd>_______________________________________________ Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
<a href="https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib" eudora="autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib</a>
</blockquote>
</dl><br><br>
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/<br><br>
Kaj Tesink<br>
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.</blockquote><br>
Regards,<br>
/david t. perkins</body>
</html>

--=====================_1664672702==.ALT--


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Thu Apr 15 04:15:21 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA10534
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:15:21 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BE1xk-0005x1-K5; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:11:08 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BE1ur-0004a2-2U
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:08:09 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA09743
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:08:06 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BE1uo-0007mk-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:08:06 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BE1tr-0007iF-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:07:08 -0400
Received: from g5b63.g.pppool.de ([80.185.91.99] helo=james.eecs.iu-bremen.de)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BE1t0-0007dQ-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:06:15 -0400
Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id 22B698906; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:06:15 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:06:15 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Cc: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Message-ID: <20040415080615.GA1021@iu-bremen.de>
Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de
Mail-Followup-To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>,
	Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
References: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalnetworks.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20040414212356.02415658@127.0.0.1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040414212356.02415658@127.0.0.1>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 10:13:57PM -0700, David T. Perkins wrote:
 
> entPhysicalSupplManfactDate  OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      DateAndTimeOrZero
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-only  -- maybe this should be w/r like serial number
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>       "The manufacturing date for the physical entity, or 'zero'
>       if the date is unknown or not appropriate."
>     ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 1 }

We do not have DateAndTimeOrZero. Why not use what seems to work
everywhere else?

	"The manufacturing date for the physical entity. The special 
	 value '0000000000000000'H is used if the date is unknown or 
	 not appropriate."

> entPhysicalSupplAltTypes OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      Utf8String
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-write
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>           "A zero length string if the value is unknown or not
>           appropriate; or one, or more pairs of tag and value
>           which provide alternative identification of the entity
>           in addition to the value of object entPhysicalVendorType.
>           This object was added so that one or more industry
>           sectors could add sector specific identification codes.
>           It is expected that typically, at most a single sector
>           identification code will be present. However, managers
>           must cope with a list of tag-value pairs.
>           The format of the value (when not a zero length string) is:
>             <pair>[;<pair>]...
>           where the format of <pair> is
>             <id>:<value>
>           where the values for <id> are short strings managed by IANA,
>           and <value> follows the rules for an <id> definition,
>           and may include any character other than ';'. The first
>           defined <id> is 'CLEI', and when so, the values for
>           <value> are 1 to 10 characters long as defined by 
>           TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
>           included in the Management Information Base,
>           Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.
> 
>           An example value is 'CLEI:ABCDEFGHIJ'"
>     ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 2 }

How did you pick the special characters : and ;? Do you have evidence
that these characters will not be used by identification code schemes? 
And does this not complicate matters instead of just saying this is the
CLEI code object (and to potentially add other identification objects
as the need arises)? I mean, it is easy to return a zero length string
or not to implement the object at all.

An alternative might be to actually add a URI object for identification
purposes. It is then the job of the CLEI folks to write up a URN
definition so that they can use CLEI codes for identification. I think
such an approach would be much better than creating a special purpose
name space just for this single MIB object.

/js



_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Thu Apr 15 04:16:41 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA10658
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:16:41 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BE21N-0007PG-KG
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:14:58 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3F8ErKr028471
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:14:53 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BE1xk-0005x1-K5; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:11:08 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BE1ur-0004a2-2U
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:08:09 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA09743
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:08:06 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BE1uo-0007mk-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:08:06 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BE1tr-0007iF-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:07:08 -0400
Received: from g5b63.g.pppool.de ([80.185.91.99] helo=james.eecs.iu-bremen.de)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BE1t0-0007dQ-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 04:06:15 -0400
Received: by james.eecs.iu-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id 22B698906; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:06:15 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:06:15 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de>
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Cc: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Message-ID: <20040415080615.GA1021@iu-bremen.de>
Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de
Mail-Followup-To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>,
	Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
References: <93401232EABAAB4EA430E13ECC701CCF63A9CC@yorktown.pedestalnetworks.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20040414212356.02415658@127.0.0.1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040414212356.02415658@127.0.0.1>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 10:13:57PM -0700, David T. Perkins wrote:
 
> entPhysicalSupplManfactDate  OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      DateAndTimeOrZero
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-only  -- maybe this should be w/r like serial number
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>       "The manufacturing date for the physical entity, or 'zero'
>       if the date is unknown or not appropriate."
>     ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 1 }

We do not have DateAndTimeOrZero. Why not use what seems to work
everywhere else?

	"The manufacturing date for the physical entity. The special 
	 value '0000000000000000'H is used if the date is unknown or 
	 not appropriate."

> entPhysicalSupplAltTypes OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX      Utf8String
>     MAX-ACCESS  read-write
>     STATUS      current
>     DESCRIPTION
>           "A zero length string if the value is unknown or not
>           appropriate; or one, or more pairs of tag and value
>           which provide alternative identification of the entity
>           in addition to the value of object entPhysicalVendorType.
>           This object was added so that one or more industry
>           sectors could add sector specific identification codes.
>           It is expected that typically, at most a single sector
>           identification code will be present. However, managers
>           must cope with a list of tag-value pairs.
>           The format of the value (when not a zero length string) is:
>             <pair>[;<pair>]...
>           where the format of <pair> is
>             <id>:<value>
>           where the values for <id> are short strings managed by IANA,
>           and <value> follows the rules for an <id> definition,
>           and may include any character other than ';'. The first
>           defined <id> is 'CLEI', and when so, the values for
>           <value> are 1 to 10 characters long as defined by 
>           TCIF-02-004, Guideline for data elements
>           included in the Management Information Base,
>           Telecommunications Industry Forum (TCIF), 09/11/2002.
> 
>           An example value is 'CLEI:ABCDEFGHIJ'"
>     ::= { entSupplPhysicalEntry 2 }

How did you pick the special characters : and ;? Do you have evidence
that these characters will not be used by identification code schemes? 
And does this not complicate matters instead of just saying this is the
CLEI code object (and to potentially add other identification objects
as the need arises)? I mean, it is easy to return a zero length string
or not to implement the object at all.

An alternative might be to actually add a URI object for identification
purposes. It is then the job of the CLEI folks to write up a URN
definition so that they can use CLEI codes for identification. I think
such an approach would be much better than creating a special purpose
name space just for this single MIB object.

/js



_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Fri Apr 16 03:50:47 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA20662
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:50:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BENz9-0004c1-IY; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:42:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BENtI-0002zz-Pw
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:36:00 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19734
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:35:59 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1BENtG-0004uF-B2
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:35:58 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BENsJ-0004p7-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:35:00 -0400
Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BENrq-0004kE-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:34:30 -0400
Received: from NB5.dsperkins.com (shell4.bayarea.net [209.128.82.1])
	by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3G7YL205273;
	Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:34:21 -0700
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040416002802.02424e70@127.0.0.1>
X-Sender: dperkins@127.0.0.1
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:34:02 -0700
To: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

HI,

Juergen and I did some back and forth on what to do, and we both
believe that there should be one generic object that you can put
a list of any type of identification using a URNs, instead of a
specific object that holds only a single CLEI code.

Sorry, I cannot provide and updated definition now, but maybe
on sunday if someone else has not already.

Regards,
/david t. perkins


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Fri Apr 16 03:57:12 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21111
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:57:12 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BEO79-0007cz-BH
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:50:23 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3G7oJaI029311
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:50:19 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BENz9-0004c1-IY; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:42:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BENtI-0002zz-Pw
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:36:00 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA19734
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:35:59 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1BENtG-0004uF-B2
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:35:58 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BENsJ-0004p7-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:35:00 -0400
Received: from shell4.bayarea.net ([209.128.82.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BENrq-0004kE-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 03:34:30 -0400
Received: from NB5.dsperkins.com (shell4.bayarea.net [209.128.82.1])
	by shell4.bayarea.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i3G7YL205273;
	Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:34:21 -0700
Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20040416002802.02424e70@127.0.0.1>
X-Sender: dperkins@127.0.0.1
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:34:02 -0700
To: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

HI,

Juergen and I did some back and forth on what to do, and we both
believe that there should be one generic object that you can put
a list of any type of identification using a URNs, instead of a
specific object that holds only a single CLEI code.

Sorry, I cannot provide and updated definition now, but maybe
on sunday if someone else has not already.

Regards,
/david t. perkins


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Fri Apr 16 12:44:02 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA20425
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:44:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BEWBB-0006yd-8E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:27:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BEW7a-0005pg-Tr
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:23:21 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19153
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:23:15 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1BEW7Z-000163-CM
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:23:17 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BEW6k-000136-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:22:27 -0400
Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BEW6C-0000yL-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:52 -0400
Received: from shannon.research.telcordia.com (shannon-83.research.telcordia.com [128.96.83.11])
	by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3GGL98o014251;
	Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from kaj-100.research.telcordia.com (kaj-100.cc.telcordia.com [128.96.71.110])
	by shannon.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22196;
	Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:08 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040416122017.02977068@128.96.81.11>
X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:05 -0400
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de>
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040416002802.02424e70@127.0.0.1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (thumper)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

At 12:34 AM 4/16/2004 -0700, David T. Perkins wrote:
>HI,
>
>Juergen and I did some back and forth on what to do, and we both
>believe that there should be one generic object that you can put
>a list of any type of identification using a URNs, instead of a
>specific object that holds only a single CLEI code.
>
>Sorry, I cannot provide and updated definition now, but maybe
>on sunday if someone else has not already.

that would be great

kaj



>Regards,
>/david t. perkins


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Fri Apr 16 12:53:52 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21355
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:53:52 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BEWRD-0002st-1S
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:43:39 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3GGhZTi011078
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:43:35 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BEWBB-0006yd-8E; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:27:01 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BEW7a-0005pg-Tr
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:23:21 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA19153
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:23:15 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1BEW7Z-000163-CM
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:23:17 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BEW6k-000136-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:22:27 -0400
Received: from thumper.research.telcordia.com ([128.96.41.1])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BEW6C-0000yL-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:52 -0400
Received: from shannon.research.telcordia.com (shannon-83.research.telcordia.com [128.96.83.11])
	by thumper.research.telcordia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i3GGL98o014251;
	Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from kaj-100.research.telcordia.com (kaj-100.cc.telcordia.com [128.96.71.110])
	by shannon.research.telcordia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22196;
	Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:08 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040416122017.02977068@128.96.81.11>
X-Sender: kaj@128.96.81.11
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:21:05 -0400
To: "David T. Perkins" <dperkins@dsperkins.com>, entmib@ietf.org
From: Kaj Tesink <kaj@research.telcordia.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Entmib] Re: Entity mib support for tcif
Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@iu-bremen.de>
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040416002802.02424e70@127.0.0.1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (thumper)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

At 12:34 AM 4/16/2004 -0700, David T. Perkins wrote:
>HI,
>
>Juergen and I did some back and forth on what to do, and we both
>believe that there should be one generic object that you can put
>a list of any type of identification using a URNs, instead of a
>specific object that holds only a single CLEI code.
>
>Sorry, I cannot provide and updated definition now, but maybe
>on sunday if someone else has not already.

that would be great

kaj



>Regards,
>/david t. perkins


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Kaj Tesink
Telcordia Technologies. Inc.
331 Newman Springs Road
Red Bank, NJ 07701
Email: kaj@research.telcordia.com
Tel: (732) 758-5254
Fax: (732) 758-4177

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib



From entmib-admin@ietf.org  Fri Apr 23 02:11:08 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13515
	for <entmib-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BGtjG-0001OJ-2u; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:00:02 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BGthx-0000kr-9n
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:58:41 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA02231
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1BGthr-0002XB-Pl
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:58:35 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BGtgw-0002IG-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:57:39 -0400
Received: from tierw.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BGtgR-00023M-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:57:07 -0400
Received: from tierw.net.avaya.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by tierw.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i3N5qJld001809
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:52:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com (h135-64-105-51.avaya.com [135.64.105.51])
	by tierw.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i3N5qHld001795
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:52:18 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803"
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:57:08 +0300
Message-ID: <AAB4B3D3CF0F454F98272CBE187FDE2F04C0F10C@is0004avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: :-)
Thread-Index: AcQo98+zovDdd9AGQkq7EhpLt8T9KgAAAAGl
From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: <entmib@ietf.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE 
	autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] Out of Office AutoReply: :-)
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="windows-1255"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am out of office on vacation between 4/23 and 4/30. I will do my best =
to answer your e-mail as soon as possible after my return to the office. =
For urgent issues I can be reached at +972-55-581118.=20

Regards,

Dan


------_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="windows-1255"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
6.0.6487.1">
<TITLE>Out of Office AutoReply: :-)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/plain format -->

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am out of office on vacation between 4/23 and 4/30. =
I will do my best to answer your e-mail as soon as possible after my =
return to the office. For urgent issues I can be reached at =
+972-55-581118.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803--

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib


From exim@www1.ietf.org  Fri Apr 23 02:12:12 2004
Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA14578
	for <entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:12:12 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BGttZ-0008Rs-BC
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:10:41 -0400
Received: (from exim@localhost)
	by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N6Afmu032466
	for entmib-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:10:41 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BGtjG-0001OJ-2u; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:00:02 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
	by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
	id 1BGthx-0000kr-9n
	for entmib@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:58:41 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
	by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA02231
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx)
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32)
	id 1BGthr-0002XB-Pl
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:58:35 -0400
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BGtgw-0002IG-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:57:39 -0400
Received: from tierw.net.avaya.com ([198.152.13.100])
	by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
	id 1BGtgR-00023M-00
	for entmib@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:57:07 -0400
Received: from tierw.net.avaya.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by tierw.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i3N5qJld001809
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:52:19 -0500 (EST)
Received: from IS0004AVEXU1.global.avaya.com (h135-64-105-51.avaya.com [135.64.105.51])
	by tierw.net.avaya.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i3N5qHld001795
	for <entmib@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:52:18 -0500 (EST)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803"
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:57:08 +0300
Message-ID: <AAB4B3D3CF0F454F98272CBE187FDE2F04C0F10C@is0004avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Thread-Topic: :-)
Thread-Index: AcQo98+zovDdd9AGQkq7EhpLt8T9KgAAAAGl
From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: <entmib@ietf.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
	ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE 
	autolearn=no version=2.60
Subject: [Entmib] Out of Office AutoReply: :-)
Sender: entmib-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: entmib-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: entmib@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: IETF Entity MIB WG <entmib.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:entmib@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib>,
	<mailto:entmib-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="windows-1255"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am out of office on vacation between 4/23 and 4/30. I will do my best =
to answer your e-mail as soon as possible after my return to the office. =
For urgent issues I can be reached at +972-55-581118.=20

Regards,

Dan


------_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="windows-1255"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
6.0.6487.1">
<TITLE>Out of Office AutoReply: :-)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/plain format -->

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am out of office on vacation between 4/23 and 4/30. =
I will do my best to answer your e-mail as soon as possible after my =
return to the office. For urgent issues I can be reached at =
+972-55-581118.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C428F7.CFBAF803--

_______________________________________________
Entmib mailing list
Entmib@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/entmib