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Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:20:57 +0000 Received: from HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e878:b31b:f06d:6fd3]) by HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e878:b31b:f06d:6fd3%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1601.016; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:20:57 +0000 From: pradeep xplorer To: "art@ietf.org" , "extra@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email Thread-Index: AQHUu4xItqZ3iWo25UWUK3jf3f9l1KXODrDO Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:20:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:F74030EEF046005070F8504535E87D86CFB41090A6916786FA8EA35653DEAA76; UpperCasedChecksum:2238F7FA0898A86FF5D03EB85F1ADF1C0D35A0CDCDE082137C4A6C3F1AB0A86C; SizeAsReceived:8592; Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [lVv+kta/+mmkC3HCBGyRdgjPCmHYO+K71fpT+offqxQ=] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(20181119070)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(201702181274)(2017031323274)(2017031324274)(2017031322404)(1601125500)(1603101475)(1701031045); SRVR:HK2APC01HT122; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HK2APC01HT122: x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(4566010)(82015058); SRVR:HK2APC01HT122; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HK2APC01HT122; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: qqBDK9VjDLtgt6YA1vCvARWANqGREJJ4Ro3yy17bizZeGvGhu3/Vi5oMCecTTsgs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HK0PR03MB4099E838F005F0BF2351652EB76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 54485d23-c432-40fe-8436-6091d627118c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: aa08ee9f-9b70-4ada-78bf-08d689da6ee3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 54485d23-c432-40fe-8436-6091d627118c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Feb 2019 13:20:57.5390 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK2APC01HT122 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 13:21:09 -0000 --_000_HK0PR03MB4099E838F005F0BF2351652EB76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a better description of the proposal and user requirement https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xplorer-device-association/ I am writing from risihikesh ramjula internet center Pradeep Kumar Xplorer ________________________________ --_000_HK0PR03MB4099E838F005F0BF2351652EB76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a better description of the proposal and user requirement

I am writing from risihikesh ramjula internet center
Pradeep Kumar Xplorer


--_000_HK0PR03MB4099E838F005F0BF2351652EB76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_-- From nobody Sun Feb 3 07:22:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A34130F30; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 07:22:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: extra@ietf.org, brong@fastmailteam.com, extra-chairs@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.90.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154920732214.10969.12313732094880072009.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 07:22:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] extra - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 15:22:02 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Bron Gondwana, a Chair of the extra working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Bron Gondwana Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: jmap dispatch doh uta dmarc calext Second Priority: oauth tls httpbis People who must be present: Alexey Melnikov Jiankang Yao Bron Gondwana Resources Requested: Experimental Room Setup (U-Shape and classroom, subject to availability) Flipcharts: please specify number in Special Requests field Special Requests: Can we please be early in the week if possible - there are potential attendees who would find it easier to come early. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Feb 3 07:39:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131B112008F; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 07:39:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: extra@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.90.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: extra@ietf.org Message-ID: <154920834501.11117.12660214973660589258@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 07:39:05 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] I-D Action: draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03.txt X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 15:39:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend WG of the IETF. Title : INTERNET MESSAGE ACCESS PROTOCOL - VERSION 4rev2 Authors : Alexey Melnikov Barry Leiba Filename : draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03.txt Pages : 128 Date : 2019-02-03 Abstract: The Internet Message Access Protocol, Version 4rev2 (IMAP4rev2) allows a client to access and manipulate electronic mail messages on a server. IMAP4rev2 permits manipulation of mailboxes (remote message folders) in a way that is functionally equivalent to local folders. IMAP4rev2 also provides the capability for an offline client to resynchronize with the server. IMAP4rev2 includes operations for creating, deleting, and renaming mailboxes, checking for new messages, permanently removing messages, setting and clearing flags, RFC 5322 and RFC 2045 parsing, searching, and selective fetching of message attributes, texts, and portions thereof. Messages in IMAP4rev2 are accessed by the use of numbers. These numbers are either message sequence numbers or unique identifiers. IMAP4rev2 does not specify a means of posting mail; this function is handled by a mail submission protocol such as RFC 6409. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Feb 3 19:33:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D69412008A; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 19:33:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.875 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xbbJVZbv7r4A; 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Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:33:40 +0000 Received: from HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.152.250.57) by SG2APC01FT039.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.251.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1580.10 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:33:40 +0000 Received: from HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e878:b31b:f06d:6fd3]) by HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e878:b31b:f06d:6fd3%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1601.016; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:33:40 +0000 From: pradeep xplorer To: Claudio Allocchio CC: "art@ietf.org" , "extra@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email Thread-Index: AQHUu4xItqZ3iWo25UWUK3jf3f9l1KXOgw8AgAB6ggA= Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:33:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: BMXPR01CA0028.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:1096:b00:c::14) To HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:203:9e::10) x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:1F405B48A32070FB2B301B02955E66FF3C8F58184B44331EE7EF1ABFE9155719; 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Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:00:49 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1549263649; bh=iW60yXK5rMLPAhNF62oXvvKa/LoXAW2c16QMC78R7SQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=rPBt+All5DAztxHUmnWWzVNQ6W3oEVssugU06Pi3ctHCIxKzS71moEg9cj9TzPPuE 2adHm0KMNvzna3od845XzHya8DFKlnYg1/lAtarDTY67UY9T6qoG14HCiXbuVfYJdo nn+5v0yqQ2MSk8N6qu5AoI81XcJfFhq7OfM7hiY4= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1549263648-2663-2661/9/116; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:00:48 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: pradeep xplorer Cc: Claudio Allocchio , extra@ietf.org, art@ietf.org Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:59:07 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Trojita/0.7; Qt/5.7.1; xcb; Linux; Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 06:59:21 -0000 On Monday 4 February 2019 04:33:39 CET, pradeep xplorer wrote: > This is my device mac shown in my 40 dollar used samsung android > > B86CE8AAE76F > You have to send me a message just using this. Are you saying > its possible now using > Sms and email? That's the MAC device address of one of my devices too (not changed by me, correct as far as the software can possibly check), so to whom would Claudio's software send that, if he had such software? Arnt From nobody Sun Feb 3 23:48:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006AB12008A; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:48:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.875 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wJA58fuPPmjU; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 23:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from APC01-HK2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092255038.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.255.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70ACB1294FA; 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SRVR:SG2APC01HT157; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SG2APC01HT157: x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(4566010)(82015058); SRVR:SG2APC01HT157; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SG2APC01HT157; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: y9rLv4sv81wuZQ4b1+ThvT3iD0WyVguzf1y9NGlZuR8JxOwIaAO231YHQ9YB0uZW Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HK0PR03MB40999178A3809EF71E671161B76D0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 54485d23-c432-40fe-8436-6091d627118c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dd58531b-26db-4850-5d6f-08d68a75194b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 54485d23-c432-40fe-8436-6091d627118c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Feb 2019 07:48:05.9219 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SG2APC01HT157 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 07:48:12 -0000 --_000_HK0PR03MB40999178A3809EF71E671161B76D0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is definition of MAC i found Find the MAC Address of a Computer or Device. A Media Access Control (MAC) = address is a unique numeric identifier used to distinguish a device from ot= hers on a network. The address is assigned by the manufacturer, for Etherne= t and Wi-Fi cards. I have no idea why my MAC is same as your MAC.. may be i have to dig it out= using some other android actions ________________________________ From: Arnt Gulbrandsen Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 12:29 PM To: pradeep xplorer Cc: Claudio Allocchio; extra@ietf.org; art@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to de= vice address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sm= s and email On Monday 4 February 2019 04:33:39 CET, pradeep xplorer wrote: > This is my device mac shown in my 40 dollar used samsung android > > B86CE8AAE76F > You have to send me a message just using this. Are you saying > its possible now using > Sms and email? That's the MAC device address of one of my devices too (not changed by me, correct as far as the software can possibly check), so to whom would Claudio's software send that, if he had such software? Arnt --_000_HK0PR03MB40999178A3809EF71E671161B76D0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is definition of MAC i found
Fin= d the MAC Address of a Computer = or Device. A Media Access Control (MAC) address is a unique numeric identifier used to distin= guish a device from others on a = network. The address is assigned by the manufacturer, for Ethernet and Wi-F= i cards.

I have no idea why my MAC is same as your MAC.. may be i have to dig it out= using some other android actions


From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <= arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 12:29 PM
To: pradeep xplorer
Cc: Claudio Allocchio; extra@ietf.org; art@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique name= s to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages u= sing sms and email
 
On Monday 4 February 2019 04:33:39 CET, pradeep xp= lorer wrote:
> This is my device mac shown in my 40 dollar used samsung android
>
> B86CE8AAE76F
> You have to send me a message just using this. Are you saying
> its possible now using
> Sms and email?

That's the MAC device address of one of my devices too (not changed by me, =
correct as far as the software can possibly check), so to whom would
Claudio's software send that, if he had such software?

Arnt

--_000_HK0PR03MB40999178A3809EF71E671161B76D0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_-- From nobody Mon Feb 4 00:20:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA9B130F26; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 22:49:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.875 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m4GtlpF1PM1s; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 22:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from APC01-PU1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092254029.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.254.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C416130F1F; 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Sun, 3 Feb 2019 06:49:45 +0000 Received: from HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e878:b31b:f06d:6fd3]) by HK0PR03MB4099.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e878:b31b:f06d:6fd3%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1601.013; Sun, 3 Feb 2019 06:49:45 +0000 From: pradeep xplorer To: "art@ietf.org" , "extra@ietf.org" CC: "sovereignamber@hotmail.com" , "ladyofmanynames@gmail.com" , "ardenfire@yahoo.com" , "scottm@wayin.com" , "fmcreative@fantasymakers.com" , "icann@icann.org" , "mail@ashtangayoga.info" , "info@agamayoga.com" , "dwestergreen@koenigrubloff.com" , "amyji2@gmail.com" , "larry.ellison@oracle.com" , "jack@twitter.com" , "info@yogaworks.com" , "scotte.stafford@siap.pentagon.mil" , "john.c.gerspach@citi.com" , "rwalker@scscourt.org" , "askvisausa@visa.com" , "info@yogasource.com" , "indian_punk@outlook.com" , "larrypage@google.com" , "info@yogaalliance.org" , "mfoster@fosteremploymentlaw.com" , "zoe.tillman@buzzfeed.com" , "sumbody@sumbody.com" Thread-Topic: Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email Thread-Index: AQHUu4xItqZ3iWo25UWUK3jf3f9l1A== Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 06:49:44 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:34D20A2EE7C06693475FA35B646975BDBA02C0647E5D035C88AD6297078965B4; 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PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(201702061078)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(201702181274)(2017031323274)(2017031324274)(2017031322404)(1601125500)(1603101475)(1701031045); SRVR:HK2APC01HT167; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HK2APC01HT167: x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(4566010)(82015058); SRVR:HK2APC01HT167; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HK2APC01HT167; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: wAvDJPnPEQLd8TYAt1WIy74Lrkxryc4V+bn9nN9coTkV4Iv/bxZTQV5/bDso2k4U Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HK0PR03MB40992846EB71CD520F11BA28B76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 54485d23-c432-40fe-8436-6091d627118c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b8815c86-c2b3-401e-eeb6-08d689a3c82a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 54485d23-c432-40fe-8436-6091d627118c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Feb 2019 06:49:44.9294 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK2APC01HT167 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 00:20:41 -0800 Subject: [Extra] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 06:49:55 -0000 --_000_HK0PR03MB40992846EB71CD520F11BA28B76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a better description of the user requirement. I am writing from rishikesh ramjula internet center Pradeep Kumar Xplorer --_000_HK0PR03MB40992846EB71CD520F11BA28B76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a better description of the user requirement.
I am writing from rishikesh ramjula internet center
Pradeep Kumar Xplorer

--_000_HK0PR03MB40992846EB71CD520F11BA28B76C0HK0PR03MB4099apcp_-- From nobody Mon Feb 4 01:18:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E2B130E16; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 01:18:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.208 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mrochek.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7mYVk8hLDdJ4; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 01:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (unknown [66.159.242.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87ED3124BF6; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 01:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R2SRS9C8JK00M7Z2@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 01:13:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=201712; t=1549271584; bh=d//P9jQVOxmm+bvPeGJBbzBJjsoqfbVXvhw1N0LnsxY=; h=Cc:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To:From; b=OZiCaFyG0i4E0lHYY/w1KD0vZTmopc3Eae13AIuSwEAl8zqaodfy3GVi6+PAzsYdO hv+fN6CVjNi/55THrYTNlQh2A1y0sFMX/Uq99HDChKw5zjWu6pHQZx7RtIiPxgY5X9 0bIUwOGz9zdm0y+x0YBHoX0YcsCjQxeERrEgdUWE= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii; Format=flowed Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R2D2WCFLIO00004L@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 01:13:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: pradeep xplorer , extra@ietf.org, art@ietf.org, Claudio Allocchio Message-id: <01R2SRS7WJGS00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 01:09:06 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 04 Feb 2019 07:59:07 +0100" References: To: Arnt Gulbrandsen Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 09:18:24 -0000 > On Monday 4 February 2019 04:33:39 CET, pradeep xplorer wrote: > > This is my device mac shown in my 40 dollar used samsung android > > > > B86CE8AAE76F > > You have to send me a message just using this. Are you saying > > its possible now using > > Sms and email? > That's the MAC device address of one of my devices too (not changed by me, > correct as far as the software can possibly check), so to whom would > Claudio's software send that, if he had such software? For many years the ethernet address of a series of different laptops I used was AA000400010A at work but something entirely different at home. That address was also used at most of our customer sites but assigned to a different system at each one. Ned From nobody Mon Feb 4 04:07:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA1F130E8A; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 04:07:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.875 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.875 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lCfVQwTSrou1; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 04:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from APC01-HK2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-hk2apc01olkn0812.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:febc::812]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 699E7130E5F; 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Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:16:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-832-gba113d7-fmstable-20190201v1 X-Me-Personality: 567075 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <2e9667a7-95ac-4db6-9a56-f5d3454ad9d5@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <19ead1f9-84a0-4cee-9f9f-93737ce2095c@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 10:16:07 -0500 From: "Bron Gondwana" To: "Arnt Gulbrandsen" , "Pradeep Kumar Xplorer" Cc: "extra@ietf.org" , "art@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e06eac710caa497a9006ff28be1855be Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] =?utf-8?q?=5Bart=5D__Need_for_associating_Internet_Uniqu?= =?utf-8?q?e_names_to_device_address_and_phone_numbers_and_emails_ability_?= =?utf-8?q?to_send_messages_using_sms_and_email?= X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 15:16:15 -0000 --e06eac710caa497a9006ff28be1855be Content-Type: text/plain Pradeep, if you feel you have been harassed please contact the ombudsteam at https://ietf.org/contact/ombudsteam/ Everybody else: please stop all discussion of this topic until this claim of harassment has been resolved. Let's make sure we do the right thing here. Thanks, Bron. On Tue, Feb 5, 2019, at 01:53, pradeep xplorer wrote: > Its an activity and ietf is powerful to influence companies selling products and offering services. I stated i need a solution as a website publisher. I am an ex sun company employee. I need now company income and a healthy personal life for my age and i repeated lack of knowledge who my website viewers are and their opportunism to exploit me led to my suffering. Off line response is harassment to me. > > Sent from MailDroid > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arnt Gulbrandsen > To: pradeep xplorer > Sent: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 20:45 > Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email > > On Monday 4 February2019 15 :35:56 CET, pradeep xplorer wrote: > > I dont accept your decision to give me an off list reply i > > repeat i am a serious yoga guide using website being exploited > > and harmed. so you need to address it in the archives so i get a > > solution > > No, I don't need that. The IETF is a volunteer activity and you have no > claim on anyone's time. Your desire does not imply anyone else's need. > > Arnt > > > _______________________________________________ > art mailing list > art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art > -- Bron Gondwana brong@fastmail.fm --e06eac710caa497a9006ff28be1855be Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pradeep, if you feel you have been harassed please contact= the ombudsteam at http= s://ietf.org/contact/ombudsteam/

Everybody else: plea= se stop all discussion of this topic until this claim of harassment has = been resolved.  Let's make sure we do the right thing here.

Thanks,

Bron.
=

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019, at 01:53, pradeep xplorer wrote:
Its an activity and ietf is powerful to influence com= panies selling products and offering services. I stated i need a solutio= n as a website publisher. I am an ex sun company employee. I need now co= mpany income and a healthy personal life for my age and i repeated lack of knowledge who my website viewers are and their oppor= tunism to exploit me led to my suffering. Off line response is harassmen= t to me.

Sent from MailDroid

-----Original Message---= --
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen &l= t;arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
To: pradeep xplorer <pradeepan88@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 20:45
Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associat= ing Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails= ability to send messages using sms and email

On M= onday 4 February2019 15:35:56 CET, pradeep xp= lorer wrote:
> I dont ac= cept your decision to give me an off list reply i
> repeat i am a serious yoga guide using websit= e being exploited
> and = harmed. so you need to address it in the archives so i get a
<= div style=3D"font-family:Arial;"> > solution

No, I = don't need that. The IETF is a volunteer activity and you have no
claim on anyone's time. Your desi= re does not imply anyone else's need.

Arnt
<= div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">

_______________________________________________
art mailing list
art@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art


<= div class=3D"signature">-- 
 = ; Bron Gondwana
  brong@fastmail.= fm


--e06eac710caa497a9006ff28be1855be-- From nobody Mon Feb 4 07:41:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A29130E84; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:41:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYUKdWPNeY6A; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54122130E81; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1gqgMp-0004rt-H1; Mon, 04 Feb 2019 10:41:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 10:40:57 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: pradeep xplorer cc: extra@ietf.org, art@ietf.org Message-ID: <2FDF95ED8057DE7E6BD32DDF@PSB> In-Reply-To: References: <2e9667a7-95ac-4db6-9a56-f5d3454ad9d5@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <19ead1f9-84a0-4cee-9f9f-93737ce2095c@gulbrandsen.priv.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 15:41:09 -0000 Pradeep, I've tried to advise you offlist about topics like this and promptly had my note copied to the list, as you have done with Arnt. Based on experience, Julian's note asking you to not forward such messages represents the general consensus of the IETF community, but let me address the more technical side of the issue and make one last attempt to clarify; if this keeps up, I will then join others in what I assume they have done, which is to modify my mail system to simply drop your incoming messages and in urging the sergeants at arms and ADs to simply ban you from all IETF lists. This note would normally have been sent privately, but you have made it clear that would be a waste of time and energy. However, I'm not going to further clutter the list by responding to any attempt to turn this note into an extended on-list conversation. There are two main reasons for replying offlist to a posting to an IETF list. one is the one Arnt cited: you appear to be showing some basic misunderstanding or ignorance of fundamental issues underlying what you are proposing. Sending a response off list cuts down on-list noise from a mini-tutorial or discussion of a topic that most of those in the list are presumed to understand and, if there is simply a misunderstanding, it can provide an opportunity to clarify issues (without involving everyone on the list) and then to return to the list with a clarified version of the description or proposal. There is also an old principle in at least some cultures that, under most circumstances, it is better to criticize in private and praise in public. "You just don't understand this, let me try to explain it" is normally a very mild form of criticism if it is interpreted as criticism at all, but at least some of us prefer to keep such comments off-list, if only in the hope that comments will be taken in the constructive spirit in which they are intended rather that as a public attack. If you see some of such notes as abusive, you should certainly complain but, fwiw, I don't see anything abusive in Arnt's note, this note, or my earlier one that you forwarded to the list with a claim that I'm part of a conspiracy against you. The private notes of explanation have one more advantage in your particular situation (at least as I understand it). If one of us feels that there is something that affects the plausibility of one of your proposals and explains that to you off list, that is just a private conversation among colleagues. I hope people will extend me the same courtesy when I misunderstand or overlook something about one of my proposals. I misunderstand, overlook things, and explain badly more often than I would wish and Arnt, among many others, has been helpful and courteous enough to explain and to help me understand and deal with the difference between my ignorance and my sometimes-hasty and insufficient explanations. However, when you repost those explanations on list, you create a public record that either your expertise isn't as deep and broad as you have often claimed or that, regardless of what it might once have been, you haven't stayed current. Whatever else is going on with you and your situation, you don't benefit from that. Whether it is relevant to your decision to post Arnt's note back to the list or not, we have discussed topics like what appear to be attempts to justify technical proposals on the basis of your yoga practice and expertise, the problems with your web site and compensation, and so on. Those situations and associated difficulties may get you a more careful hearing than others might for the same proposals --they certain have from me-- but they are not going to get an otherwise-defective proposal accepted... and, as with the above, the public attempts may not be positive for your professional reputation. Arnt, myself, and others have been trying to help you, both generally and specifically to help formulate and present proposals that have a chance of succeeding. Your responding by reposting notes or claiming on-list that we are part of some conspiracy against you is not only inappropriate but discourages those efforts. regards, john --On Monday, February 4, 2019 14:35 +0000 pradeep xplorer wrote: > I dont accept your decision to give me an off list reply i > repeat i am a serious yoga guide using website being exploited > and harmed. so you need to address it in the archives so i get > a solution. > > Sent from MailDroid > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arnt Gulbrandsen > To: pradeep xplorer > Sent: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 19:06 > Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet > Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails > ability to send messages using sms and email > > Offlist reply, since I don't want to bother the lists with a > tutorial on addressing. > > MAC addresses need to be unique within a collision domain, not > in the world. Half of the address space is set aside to the > scheme you've heard of, where manufacturers assign one or more > MACs each time they manufacture a device. However, since many > network devices don't have an manufacturer, the other half is > set aside for people who need or prefer to implement another > addressing scheme. > > This means that a public cloud vendors (which needs a MAC > address for each virtual server it rents out) can define its > an addressing scheme using the second half of the address > space, and so long as the cloud service's addresses are unique > within that building/area/company, everything works. > > If you rent a server at AWS, its MAC address can actually > change over time. > > Arnt > From nobody Mon Feb 4 09:57:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE32E130EB2 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:57:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zUgipYaEs1jV for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from statler.isode.com (Statler.isode.com [62.232.206.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17975130EB1 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:57:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1549303024; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=iuJ9ZYgpjgzK1Wl/wHbsHqsshXPDHNULP2Bv3whADIU=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=HAzpyugoilc79mfY0epvvzt4IY0yMoh3aXUPrT1J6MU2H9kQECMCZbJv7esppH4CWz2X0P wiqIPV3uMSFeMq1bRAn2L1GqzYpONMUgBKyUR3GgPw4DEiCeCTPFgrmz5aW/sT3aZGl0zT ZIQgoXuX9H1CPujrV976HlLmxR4xZVc=; Received: from [172.20.1.215] (dhcp-215.isode.net [172.20.1.215]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 17:57:04 +0000 To: extra@ietf.org References: <154920834501.11117.12660214973660589258@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Alexey Melnikov Message-ID: <06f79ff8-b7d7-288b-0987-9a4b6e488f4c@isode.com> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 17:56:54 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 In-Reply-To: <154920834501.11117.12660214973660589258@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] I-D Action: draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03.txt X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 17:57:08 -0000 Hi, On 03/02/2019 15:39, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-extra-imap4rev2-03 Major changes in this version: 1) addition of MOVE command 2) clarification that unsolicited FETCH responses need to include UID. 3) removal of \Recent flag (and associated state) and UNSEEN response code. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Mon Feb 4 10:35:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01FED130EE6; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.208 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mrochek.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BkXxNfs1RtHu; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (unknown [66.159.242.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AD40130EE2; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R2T242GLDC00LNZT@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 06:08:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=201712; t=1549289289; bh=FJQbIphuawa7VQLbcyYQeIH81oHfJSNNNeP5utBYKcI=; h=Cc:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To:From; b=MRnJ8lgxONOg4xtaStbaUHTPC58wRTuw7yVy3SYBgiZevFsNcSmlpTZeNccXQspZ1 2eNKmvs42GLnOUlcJ+NZkHqgndHeQdPiZtuGhaMoB8mPJgPbJwcQ4IVtWTxaV9NEnV C5UOvsapaH/0/z+htPubadkCe+ynbUHy1Vep0qQA= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R2D2WCFLIO00004L@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 06:08:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: Arnt Gulbrandsen , "extra@ietf.org" , "art@ietf.org" , Claudio Allocchio Message-id: <01R2T23Z3IA000004L@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 05:59:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 04 Feb 2019 12:44:43 +0000" References: <2e9667a7-95ac-4db6-9a56-f5d3454ad9d5@gulbrandsen.priv.no> To: pradeep xplorer Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 18:35:29 -0000 > You are talking those who impersonate with deliberate intention. On the contrary, the example I gave had nothing to do with impersonating anything. Like it or not, there are networks that require use of specific ethernet mac addresses. There are also cases where assuming the mac address of some other device is required. I do this myself at home with presenting an address to my modem because my ISP has some funny ideas about the meaning of mac addresses. > In absence of such forces device mac is supposed to be unique. Yes, the device mac is supposed to be unique, but the device mac isn't necessarily what a given device is constrained to use on the network. It's a strange and complicated world out there. Ned From nobody Mon Feb 4 11:35:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D537F130EEF; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 11:35:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=nostrum.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HirKtm8pbceH; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 11:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAF80130EED; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 11:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from MacBook-Pro.roach.at (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x14JZbf6077008 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:35:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1549308940; bh=PTM8LSrOow2xHxYAKCs1d8qfDKjT8kakPY1izHacnGw=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=CE5GZ4Jmg0Qd2Gy1gl3UjglI5jJdRexa/LSNC0VX1ekBfBdFfrmaMLSoRDWb2paPa 2+mqUdpVQl0IWyKYp0qUORlikFT5AOc8XiR64Ms8vjWbT5wJ7Ko2weiy9jyH4WQVzJ fwyyQw0LdXwseuZWMWOtXzGoVhE8USL47mrw+sts= X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be MacBook-Pro.roach.at To: pradeep xplorer , Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion Cc: "art-ads@ietf.org" , extra@ietf.org References: <2e9667a7-95ac-4db6-9a56-f5d3454ad9d5@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <19ead1f9-84a0-4cee-9f9f-93737ce2095c@gulbrandsen.priv.no> From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <22171c38-e0a3-1b6b-8c3b-476d9a1c9984@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:35:31 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5DB614A1D4E638FA5DE5699C" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 19:35:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5DB614A1D4E638FA5DE5699C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pradeep -- I'm one of the IETF's ART area directors. We are responsible for ensuring that the ART mailing list is used in an appropriate fashion. As several people have pointed out, forwarding private emails to public mailing lists is inappropriate and unprofessional. If you continue to do so, your posting rights to the relevant mailing lists will again be removed. You have also received significant input from people regarding the feasibility of your proposal, including pointers to technologies that have some bearing on the problem you are trying to solve. Your fundamental proposal remains essentially unchanged and significantly under-specified, despite this input. It is clear that the basic idea has not received support from the ART community. Until you can provide a new and detailed proposal, discussion on this topic is now closed. Attempting to continue such discussion will also result in a removal of posting rights. Please note that repeated disruptive or inappropriate behavior can result in the removal of your posting rights for IETF mailing lists for a year or longer. If you engage in behaviors that result in blocking you from the ART mailing list again, we plan to begin the process for such a ban. This is your last warning on the subject. /Adam Roach, on behalf of the ART Area Directors On 2/4/19 8:52 AM, pradeep xplorer wrote: > Its an activity and ietf is powerful to influence companies selling > products and offering services. I stated i need a solution as a > website publisher. I am an ex sun company employee. I need now company > income and a healthy personal life for my age and i repeated lack of > knowledge who my website viewers are and their opportunism to exploit > me led to my suffering. Off line response is harassment to me. > > Sent from MailDroid > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arnt Gulbrandsen > To: pradeep xplorer > Sent: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 20:45 > Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names > to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send > messages using sms and email > > On Monday 4 February 2019 15 :35:56 CET, pradeep xplorer > wrote: > > I dont accept your decision to give me an off list reply i > > repeat i am a serious yoga guide using website being exploited > > and harmed. so you need to address it in the archives so i get a > > solution > > No, I don't need that. The IETF is a volunteer activity and you have no > claim on anyone's time. Your desire does not imply anyone else's need. > > Arnt > > > _______________________________________________ > art mailing list > art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art --------------5DB614A1D4E638FA5DE5699C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pradeep --

I'm one of the IETF's ART area directors. We are responsible for ensuring that the ART mailing list is used in an appropriate fashion.

As several people have pointed out, forwarding private emails to public mailing lists is inappropriate and unprofessional. If you continue to do so, your posting rights to the relevant mailing lists will again be removed.

You have also received significant input from people regarding the feasibility of your proposal, including pointers to technologies that have some bearing on the problem you are trying to solve. Your fundamental proposal remains essentially unchanged and significantly under-specified, despite this input. It is clear that the basic idea has not received support from the ART community. Until you can provide a new and detailed proposal, discussion on this topic is now closed. Attempting to continue such discussion will also result in a removal of posting rights.

Please note that repeated disruptive or inappropriate behavior can result in the removal of your posting rights for IETF mailing lists for a year or longer. If you engage in behaviors that result in blocking you from the ART mailing list again, we plan to begin the process for such a ban.

This is your last warning on the subject.

/Adam Roach, on behalf of the ART Area Directors



On 2/4/19 8:52 AM, pradeep xplorer wrote:
Its an activity and ietf is powerful to influence companies selling products and offering services. I stated i need a solution as a website publisher. I am an ex sun company employee. I need now company income and a healthy personal life for my age and i repeated lack of knowledge who my website viewers are and their opportunism to exploit me led to my suffering. Off line response is harassment to me.

Sent from MailDroid

-----Original Message-----
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
To: pradeep xplorer <pradeepan88@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 04 Feb 2019 20:45
Subject: Re: [Extra] [art] Need for associating Internet Unique names to device address and phone numbers and emails ability to send messages using sms and email

On Monday 4 February 2019 15:35:56 CET, pradeep xplorer wrote:
> I dont accept your decision to give me an off list reply i
> repeat i am a serious yoga guide using website being exploited
> and harmed. so you need to address it in the archives so i get a
> solution

No, I don't need that. The IETF is a volunteer activity and you have no
claim on anyone's time. Your desire does not imply anyone else's need.

Arnt 


_______________________________________________
art mailing list
art@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/art


--------------5DB614A1D4E638FA5DE5699C-- From nobody Thu Feb 7 02:27:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D898812DDA3; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 02:27:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: extra@ietf.org, brong@fastmailteam.com, extra-chairs@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154953525687.23503.1163995049263125307.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 02:27:36 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] extra - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 10:27:37 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Bron Gondwana, a Chair of the extra working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Bron Gondwana Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: jmap dispatch doh uta dmarc calext Second Priority: oauth tls httpbis People who must be present: Alexey Melnikov Jiankang Yao Bron Gondwana Resources Requested: Special Requests: Can we please be early in the week if possible. Many of the same people attend both JMAP and EXTRA, so if they can be placed consecutively, it would be useful. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Feb 7 03:28:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1949D1310F7; Thu, 7 Feb 2019 03:28:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: extra@ietf.org, brong@fastmailteam.com, extra-chairs@ietf.org, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154953889306.23459.468888741144971101.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 03:28:13 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] extra - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 104 X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 11:28:13 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Bron Gondwana, a Chair of the extra working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Bron Gondwana Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: jmap dispatch doh uta dmarc calext dnsop Second Priority: oauth tls httpbis People who must be present: Alexey Melnikov Jiankang Yao Bron Gondwana Resources Requested: Special Requests: Can we please be early in the week if possible. Many of the same people attend both JMAP and EXTRA, so if they can be placed consecutively, it would be useful. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Feb 11 01:18:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C895E13102D for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2019 01:18:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154987672581.18722.383429891776585618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 01:18:45 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] Milestones changed for extra WG X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 09:18:46 -0000 Changed milestone "Adopt a document for EAI with Sieve", set due date to March 2019 from February 2019. Changed milestone "Adopt a QUOTA-BIS document", set due date to March 2019 from February 2019. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/extra/about/ From nobody Mon Feb 11 04:27:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979C8131031 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2019 04:27:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154988802161.18689.9329053425025158389.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 04:27:01 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] Milestones changed for extra WG X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 12:27:09 -0000 Changed milestone "Update charter to reflect current and planned work", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/extra/about/ From nobody Wed Feb 13 18:44:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439F8130EBB; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:43:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: extra@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: extra@ietf.org Message-ID: <155011223921.9461.17602462056615963830@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:43:59 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] I-D Action: draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-02.txt X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:43:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend WG of the IETF. Title : IMAP4 Extension: Message Preview Generation Author : Michael M. Slusarz Filename : draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-02.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2019-02-13 Abstract: This document specifies an IMAP protocol extension which allows a client to request that a server provide an abbreviated representation of a message that can be used by a client to provide a useful contextual preview of the message contents. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Feb 13 18:46:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9383130DE4 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:46:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IcOhT8bVnZRN for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8DCB130EBC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBFE36A258; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 03:46:47 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1550112407; bh=OiiBdyejpYK3JAp4wX7a7BPP+WUcYxZlAYBWU06kuzA=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=e1neiGRsTRAJNfQPkn1VuMzTXhgEjtw1tr9MgiHM8kYf1D/i+/t7qmPk3xJ1sjOH7 YSq4+DQKIHnLa3Y794hROZ3cBBEMD+Xj+SrOmt0Uxoi3IzuZTLdDpCf4MAQNQhduiG Q6ZmaySYAZe/KKLRliXjUR6VwxAmlBH3f9xKks2x83g0IgRiKL6YTze6qZwUkeKcSm qnTJHL1FUrkW1SqPRi2zac14niws4KIP9pf38nAAV0QoB+bLmb/FbIclAjBZwQCjeE uE+VcV8d1xMth7dms7SMCDBvWA9dL07NLKRYd6orVaIKfzdbdZDqbGguzakDsYdq7j UASV1xST5+H3A== Received: from appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com (appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B6E53C0856; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 03:46:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:46:47 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Slusarz To: Alexey Melnikov , extra@ietf.org Message-ID: <361579642.14283.1550112407559@appsuite.open-xchange.com> In-Reply-To: <3e8d0400-e80e-d2b9-60ff-6f46e483338a@isode.com> References: <8c0e5e45-5646-f609-354a-077594228b9d@isode.com> <1755730477.52872.1548118101625@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <1199097368.56484.1548189351045@appsuite.open-xchange.com> <3e8d0400-e80e-d2b9-60ff-6f46e483338a@isode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev7 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] AD review of draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-00 X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:46:52 -0000 > On January 23, 2019 at 8:03 AM Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > On 22/01/2019 20:35, Michael Slusarz wrote: > > >> "New algorithm names MUST be registered with IANA and MUST conform with the recommendations described in RFC 6648, Section 3" > > On additional review, and re-reading RFC 6648, I think the correct language is to omit the "MUST be registered" language. > > > > One of the goals of this spec is to allow flexibility for local implementers to expand the PREVIEW functionality as they see fit. (We are already thinking about at least one additional algorithm we might implement.) These additional algorithms/modifiers may only be relevant to a single project/customer/use-case however, so they are not necessarily something that will ever be standardized. > While this is true, it would still be useful to register these to avoid > name collisions. This is probably the main point for having an IANA > registry. [snip] > Personally, I prefer everything to be registered, even if it is not > standardized. Maybe "SHOULD be registered with IANA"? What do other > people think? I've deferred to your reasoning, and added the "SHOULD be registered" bit to the latest version. michael From nobody Wed Feb 13 18:49:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52263130EBE for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:49:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BRchEQi9ftJZ for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9E70130DE4 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F93B6A258; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 03:49:17 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1550112557; bh=aNOZckM2QfPMKHC4xjlaFyaN/qDiopEdTSY+ussA55c=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=iZrJipxdPYkwc3NGEtu9wc7w3jTIskVEsaLPmdDZfBZiU/exmSld97GAC+H82jt9x zZdsUL7cBeccRF+n7jLAOhe9cknCVRTAxojmyzv9opIpsskkp/mN258Oy9VKFkGsHJ rCfKVSSAR0aSIWjYY1w2/3fb9X7gEUXYB5GOKjnQT/BTOHsAvzxIggNfhBSsksS+rC GRCtkYTLJ2W7smu7/HoOa4x6LcJn6339iLQSYlpSpnkYj1BCcYefrR4DnMg3y5tM1U yKu7TtgxaugvcicL04uK31fI5iprTVCHnNzx5O38RgGAgVYsQPfpK38NFnnHS1qohP 3KkwX9XaU6QXQ== Received: from appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com (appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8FB983C0856; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 03:49:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 19:49:17 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Slusarz To: Alexey Melnikov , extra@ietf.org Message-ID: <440537508.14285.1550112557514@appsuite.open-xchange.com> In-Reply-To: References: <8c0e5e45-5646-f609-354a-077594228b9d@isode.com> <1755730477.52872.1548118101625@appsuite.open-xchange.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev7 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] AD review of draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-00 X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:49:21 -0000 > On January 23, 2019 at 8:11 AM Alexey Melnikov wrote: >=20 > 1 small comment on the latest version: >=20 > On 22/01/2019 10:57, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > On 22/01/2019 00:48, Michael Slusarz wrote: > >>> On January 14, 2019 at 4:59 AM Alexey Melnikov=20 > >>> wrote: > =C2=A0[snip] > >>> > >>>> In Section 7: > >>>> > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The following syntax specification uses the augme= nted Backus-Naur > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Form (BNF) as described in ABNF [RFC5234].=C2=A0 = It includes=20 > >>>> definitions > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 from IMAP [RFC3501]. > >>>> > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 capability=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D/ "PREVIEW=3DFUZZY" > >>>> > >>>> This doesn't quite much what you specify in Section 1. > >>>> Maybe change it to: > >>>> > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 capability=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D/ "PREVIEW=3D" preview-alg > >>>> ? > >>> That looks correct to me. >=20 > You forgot to include this change in the latest revision of the document. Added to latest draft. Additionally, on further review, realized that any future modifier would al= so need to be listed as a CAPABILITY. (LAZY doesn't need to be listed, as i= t is implied with PREVIEW=3DFUZZY). So I altered the capability string to: capability =3D/ "PREVIEW=3D" (preview-alg / preview-mod-ext) michael From nobody Sat Feb 16 12:48:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietf.org Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4C512D4E6; Sat, 16 Feb 2019 12:48:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: extra@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.91.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: extra@ietf.org Message-ID: <155035008970.28593.12554518062446921818@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 12:48:09 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] I-D Action: draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-03.txt X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 20:48:10 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend WG of the IETF. Title : IMAP4 Extension: Message Preview Generation Author : Michael M. Slusarz Filename : draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-03.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2019-02-16 Abstract: This document specifies an Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP) protocol extension allowing a client to request a server-generated abbreviated representation of message data useful as a contextual preview of the entire message. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-extra-imap-fetch-preview-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 26 19:06:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9090F1274D0 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 19:06:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gTSCnzIwESQY for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 19:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 484E8130DC0 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 19:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 62544 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2019 03:06:37 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=f44c.5c75febd.k1902; bh=gQm2sb+OD0TmPiwQ6IAJSZbbDUtXSRLyz0PB+fdC7eY=; b=SXdF8NAJT5sC/nH8YCmWPPNqb3dpCgjtTO8GQwajByl5geKTprqbqgSBOFcIuuYgn4SuFzMYsnhrf7C8J5ztu6qE5/gszwfGbSLcnlSCjjyVUvM6oOIVR7JON8y/j/lTJaOJK6VLPkHWmx3I/1l4EuhjC+kd7VmH/NH29VRwSH0kgOCwcsMBc3sAt4Xlaho5dD8PS7BclfOjzgtrOoydt8E8aT5nt5pOVU6lgACfN25ejSHdR4r8zZT7myoiE2bi Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 27 Feb 2019 03:06:37 -0000 Date: 26 Feb 2019 22:06:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: extra@ietf.org User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 03:06:41 -0000 There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the IETF. Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it's a good idea in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that seems dodgy to me. When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the mailstore, it adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show next to the message. (Think of it as x-face for corporations.) Since bad people could phish victims with their own header with a misleading image, BIMI invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA can set on messages where it has added a virtuous header. An MUA can test it to decide whether to show the logo. Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, but it presumably stays with the message if it's moved from one folder to another. Does existing IMAP software have this kind of privileged flag? Is it something that would be reasonable to implement, e.g., is there already a concept of users at different privilege levels manipulating the same mail store beyond just R/W and R/O? The IMAP software I use is Dovecot, where in the vast amount of badly organized documentation I don't see anything like this, but maybe it's hiding and I don't know where to look. Advice from actual IMAP experts welcome. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly PS: If as I suspect this is unlikely to be implementable, I have an alternate approach that involves misusing DKIM. From nobody Tue Feb 26 20:17:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B55130E11 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:17:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.982 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.982 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY=0.717, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=GFSVrA3c; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=v/U/JzCs Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4eYzz2WlASLB for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D6EC130DEC for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C9D21F24 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from :to:subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=JP58rQj/osA0KAiCFTeMR/qbRxDK BpOkMCxzcqGNxSY=; b=GFSVrA3cHxYyxuMy93F8fMIWQQwFZ/aNRzTb1KCoQRqO c2AONcXuxqvrAlX3WarogTbABOv2LRUNLqfD1KUr9h5gtm0tgFPjVxuUJ3lTXRLh mcUQphpOfVZ7G5hABPUmSUEX7o0T8g2ToP2g4crSTQu1VTtDUJjULGtVLrd7uula riJEMagA3hPVer3YSr2+MSYxV5Oz/yP8cVy/7M3WRRUS5VDo7CkVQLW5eV7jY/9k GcpSj4+6HC5IIqs4hlirSm87GCv8xv/+IXBa9RqasUQWH+2zMDR5CH8X+Uka8t9Q 7m5mcbYDhiQUz+IbPXchOePZYht1EZMOp82lguCcig== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=JP58rQj/osA0KAiCF TeMR/qbRxDKBpOkMCxzcqGNxSY=; b=v/U/JzCs61I+4FkY5RVmwXbAg1bBJEwr5 nOfgfhNdiRIDD1eU7ahI3M5tBjGk1dLnJLan5v+NRUoF5bE+YRV3CnA1D8yC5/+Y xvObzigfgmDTzePrsn79CWLOONN//E89Aa9pf6YDl1iZLV8UdsvM6YXWA2hsWoop 10bu2VHvGelSKnJmQCa8zsHmZkITUVln0GUxfyMpmYM7oS1SSFJUltLtEMvLntgD q+NKBQn7ibmuSGLbr085Mf2PfNw3/mB4T46ccw7qaUn3lyXc9zHzLwMK6N73Li3P ovC9KTM4bLUWGKylS9tMbIWtwdBf57DLXow1wm7k7Vlk4M0GTtYig== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddrvddtgdeiiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfkfgjfhffhffvufgtsegrtderre erredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfuehrohhnucfiohhnugifrghnrgdfuceosghrohhnghesfhgr shhtmhgrihhlthgvrghmrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepjhhlrdhlhidpihgvthhfrd horhhgnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsrhhonhhgsehfrghsthhmrghilhht vggrmhdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 137222031D; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:10 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-918-g4e3ba4c-fmstable-20190227v1 X-Me-Personality: 56629417 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:09 -0500 From: "Bron Gondwana" To: extra@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=fe2a7c1159364a55bc5023406de1a65e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 04:17:14 -0000 --fe2a7c1159364a55bc5023406de1a65e Content-Type: text/plain This isn't a standard feature on any IMAP server I'm aware of. I can see how to implement it in Cyrus IMAPd. Add a custom numbered ACL to control a set of listed flags, and allow the delivery agent to have that ACL. On the other hand... We do something like this already at FastMail, and here's the thing.... the user should be allowed to add or clear this header to change the interpretation of the email in their mailbox. Once they have the message - they should be able to update the BIMI status. This is particularly important when you're talking about importing and exporting email between systems. Having the flag to avoid phishing, sure. But restricting MUAs from setting that flag - that's bogus. I guess I'm going to the BIMI session. Bron. On Wed, Feb 27, 2019, at 14:06, John R. Levine wrote: > There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the > IETF. Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it's a good idea > in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that seems dodgy to me. > > When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the mailstore, it > adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show next to the > message. (Think of it as x-face for corporations.) Since bad people > could phish victims with their own header with a misleading image, BIMI > invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA can set on messages > where it has added a virtuous header. An MUA can test it to decide > whether to show the logo. Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, > but it presumably stays with the message if it's moved from one folder to > another. > > Does existing IMAP software have this kind of privileged flag? Is it > something that would be reasonable to implement, e.g., is there already a > concept of users at different privilege levels manipulating the same mail > store beyond just R/W and R/O? The IMAP software I use is Dovecot, where > in the vast amount of badly organized documentation I don't see anything > like this, but maybe it's hiding and I don't know where to look. > > Advice from actual IMAP experts welcome. > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > > PS: If as I suspect this is unlikely to be implementable, I have an > alternate approach that involves misusing DKIM. > > _______________________________________________ > Extra mailing list > Extra@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra > -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com --fe2a7c1159364a55bc5023406de1a65e Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This isn't a standard feature on any IMAP server I'm aware= of.

I can see how to implement it in Cyrus IMAPd.  = Add a custom numbered ACL to control a set of listed flags, and allow th= e delivery agent to have that ACL.

On the other hand...

We do something like this already at FastMail, and here's = the thing.... the user should be allowed to add or clear this header to = change the interpretation of the email in their mailbox.  Once they= have the message - they should be able to update the BIMI status.

This is particularly important when you're talking about impor= ting and exporting email between systems.  Having the flag to avoid= phishing, sure.  But restricting MUAs from setting that flag - tha= t's bogus.

I guess I'm going to the BIMI session.

Bron.

On Wed, Feb= 27, 2019, at 14:06, John R. Levine wrote:
There is = this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the 
<= /div>
IETF.  Leaving aside for the= moment the issue of whether it's a good idea 
in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that= seems dodgy to me.

When an MTA that supports BIMI delive= rs a message into the mailstore, it 
adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show = next to the 
message.&nb= sp; (Think of it as x-face for corporations.)  Since bad people&nbs= p;
could phish victims with t= heir own header with a misleading image, BIMI 
invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA = can set on messages 
whe= re it has added a virtuous header.  An MUA can test it to decide&nb= sp;
whether to show the logo.=   Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, 
but it presumably stays with the message i= f it's moved from one folder to 
another.

<= div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">Does existing IMAP software have this k= ind of privileged flag?  Is it 
something that would be reasonable to implement, e.g., is t= here already a 
concept = of users at different privilege levels manipulating the same mail <= br>
store beyond just R/W and R/O= ?  The IMAP software I use is Dovecot, where 
in the vast amount of badly organized documen= tation I don't see anything 
like this, but maybe it's hiding and I don't know where to look.

Advice from actual IMAP experts welcome.

Reg= ards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc= .com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before readi= ng this e-mail. https://jl.ly

PS: If as I suspect this is= unlikely to be implementable, I have an 
alternate approach that involves misusing DKIM.

_______________________________________________
Extra mailing list
Extra@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra


--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd<= br>
  brong@fastmailteam.com


--fe2a7c1159364a55bc5023406de1a65e-- From nobody Tue Feb 26 20:17:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C013130E11 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:17:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.982 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.982 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY=0.717, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=m4PHVXY2; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=DMXKQ39M Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eK0finnoQBl7 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD3D5130DEC for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BE521FE1 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from :to:subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=AFHM+LC0a3/HL/WCxiKz39vVP4Z9 C6ieWLshgdaz75o=; b=m4PHVXY2EZ7qlEO1/66q6nzSTf0Iev+Yvb7saCVJOXdz x4rBhtQwZgX3wPPARHqqIQIlPIPfVvSOR+jaiH+WTlwnyTp4lkErOWp12ncR/Glm 0hgnHXc01TbXlrrAyZ0C/228v8Utzm1cnuoFGNdNZxPtT9X9yX6fh6dAOBDUfRSh tzYDp98ITUm9K+wVHzS3LX1a6Z4EnY7P+V6lZ9CNPSI7q4VOjQSoPC9RcpwiQkyW fD8EudKPqJOLNMnegL6j2nBlSnryi8O4q+WOchzGLcjtUiQVFyJ7EKwdLSaBcc80 ZcJIzYHlBEYOqZ4Kgdp5BBE/TuKl5dSqi4nAPDpwNw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=AFHM+LC0a3/HL/WCx iKz39vVP4Z9C6ieWLshgdaz75o=; b=DMXKQ39MdQVrTOVrmfsOKo5lPro6ls9b9 Hhk41O7GKxzduJFxOReXqwYS1ojrzvXrbH8jIVv8EHsknFiA3wahYuhUnvOW8y3k KOzKrbAnGmuJTT+7+ljaLAqv3vz5c0lJ2Ex9TYQYnh6GPH6r52WPE1qaqtAM1xNP HRDCbwjtH6ckDCQUCjjYLxU/nEaVt961UuD1LSAdgOKY9LgqyiFqF95WAKrqasqu hz+gYsZt6FzNs4C856xnLRI7GBH0cRTLGMyIyyBoH47bTVKFdXpAezYvmDRD2zkN UMFtEa4Mf0y/ElWt9qX7gjNF6JJKfjd8JijxrUBjQXuC/xtW5j1yg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddrvddtgdeijecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfkfgjfhffhffvufgtsegrtderre erredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfuehrohhnucfiohhnugifrghnrgdfuceosghrohhnghesfhgr shhtmhgrihhlthgvrghmrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepjhhlrdhlhidpihgvthhfrd horhhgnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsrhhonhhgsehfrghsthhmrghilhht vggrmhdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8B3672031D; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:35 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-918-g4e3ba4c-fmstable-20190227v1 X-Me-Personality: 56629417 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:34 -0500 From: "Bron Gondwana" To: extra@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=83575acc3fa54db399dedae392d76722 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 04:17:38 -0000 --83575acc3fa54db399dedae392d76722 Content-Type: text/plain Sorry, not add or clear header - add or clear keyword. Bron. On Wed, Feb 27, 2019, at 15:17, Bron Gondwana wrote: > This isn't a standard feature on any IMAP server I'm aware of. > > I can see how to implement it in Cyrus IMAPd. Add a custom numbered ACL to control a set of listed flags, and allow the delivery agent to have that ACL. > > On the other hand... > > We do something like this already at FastMail, and here's the thing.... the user should be allowed to add or clear this header to change the interpretation of the email in their mailbox. Once they have the message - they should be able to update the BIMI status. > > This is particularly important when you're talking about importing and exporting email between systems. Having the flag to avoid phishing, sure. But restricting MUAs from setting that flag - that's bogus. > > I guess I'm going to the BIMI session. > > Bron. > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2019, at 14:06, John R. Levine wrote: >> There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the >> IETF. Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it's a good idea >> in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that seems dodgy to me. >> >> When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the mailstore, it >> adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show next to the >> message. (Think of it as x-face for corporations.) Since bad people >> could phish victims with their own header with a misleading image, BIMI >> invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA can set on messages >> where it has added a virtuous header. An MUA can test it to decide >> whether to show the logo. Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, >> but it presumably stays with the message if it's moved from one folder to >> another. >> >> Does existing IMAP software have this kind of privileged flag? Is it >> something that would be reasonable to implement, e.g., is there already a >> concept of users at different privilege levels manipulating the same mail >> store beyond just R/W and R/O? The IMAP software I use is Dovecot, where >> in the vast amount of badly organized documentation I don't see anything >> like this, but maybe it's hiding and I don't know where to look. >> >> Advice from actual IMAP experts welcome. >> >> Regards, >> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", >> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly >> >> PS: If as I suspect this is unlikely to be implementable, I have an >> alternate approach that involves misusing DKIM. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Extra mailing list >> Extra@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra >> > > -- > Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd > brong@fastmailteam.com > > -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com --83575acc3fa54db399dedae392d76722 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, not add or clear header - add or clear keyword= .

Bron.

On= Wed, Feb 27, 2019, at 15:17, Bron Gondwana wrote:
T= his isn't a standard feature on any IMAP server I'm aware of.
<= div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">
I can see how to implement it in Cyrus IMAPd.  Add a custom nu= mbered ACL to control a set of listed flags, and allow the delivery agen= t to have that ACL.

On the other hand...

W= e do something like this already at FastMail, and here's the thing.... t= he user should be allowed to add or clear this header to change the inte= rpretation of the email in their mailbox.  Once they have the messa= ge - they should be able to update the BIMI status.

This is= particularly important when you're talking about importing and exportin= g email between systems.  Having the flag to avoid phishing, sure.&= nbsp; But restricting MUAs from setting that flag - that's bogus.

I guess I'm going to the BIMI session.

Bron.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019= , at 14:06, John R. Levine wrote:
Th= ere is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the&nbs= p;
IETF.  Leaving aside = for the moment the issue of whether it's a good idea 
in the first place, it invents an IMAP fea= ture that seems dodgy to me.
=
When an MTA that supports BI= MI delivers a message into the mailstore, it 
adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo = to show next to the 
mes= sage.  (Think of it as x-face for corporations.)  Since bad pe= ople 
could phish victim= s with their own header with a misleading image, BIMI 
invents a new IMAP flag that only the del= ivery MTA can set on messages 
where it has added a virtuous header.  An MUA can test it to= decide 
whether to show= the logo.  Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, 
=
but it presumably stays with the= message if it's moved from one folder to 
another.
<= br>
Does existing IMAP software h= ave this kind of privileged flag?  Is it 
something that would be reasonable to implement, e.= g., is there already a 
= concept of users at different privilege levels manipulating the same mai= l 
store beyond just R/W= and R/O?  The IMAP software I use is Dovecot, where 
in the vast amount of badly organized= documentation I don't see anything 
like this, but maybe it's hiding and I don't know where to = look.

Advice from actual IMAP experts welcome.
<= div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">
Regards,
John Levine, jo= hnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment befo= re reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

PS: If as I suspect= this is unlikely to be implementable, I have an 
alternate approach that involves misusing DKIM= .

_______________________________________________
Extra mailing list
Extra@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra


--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com



--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd=
  brong@fastmailteam.com


--83575acc3fa54db399dedae392d76722-- From nobody Tue Feb 26 20:45:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC0AD130E11 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:45:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hWeQ0FiFuner for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fe1.cityemail.com (mail-ob1.cityemail.com [104.128.152.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61390130E16 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14355 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2019 04:45:52 -0000 Received: from riddle.wizard.ca (HELO [192.168.1.55]) (michael@wizard.ca@104.128.144.8) by fe1.cityemail.com with (AES128-SHA encrypted) SMTP (8f908fea-3a4a-11e9-b703-972fa33d793c); Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:45:52 -0800 To: extra@ietf.org References: From: Michael Peddemors Organization: LinuxMagic Inc. Message-ID: <1fefbedf-944b-2226-373b-118a15a4b2f6@linuxmagic.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 20:45:52 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MagicMail-OS: Linux 3.11 and newer X-MagicMail-UUID: 8f908fea-3a4a-11e9-b703-972fa33d793c X-MagicMail-Authenticated: michael@wizard.ca X-MagicMail-SourceIP: 104.128.144.8 X-MagicMail-RegexMatch: 0 X-MagicMail-EnvelopeFrom: X-Archive: Yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 04:45:56 -0000 Hmmmmm... idle thoughts.. Conceptually, I can see the problem it is trying to solve, but I don't think it is realistic.. And possibly even dangerous... The real problem still rests in letting the phishing email get into the mailbox in the first place, and/or identifying to the client that this is a phishing email, and not related to the purported sender.. Sounds like a better plan would be to have 'certified' logo available by some other mechanism if you are trying to tackle the problem of a visual cue to a reader ... hehe an MTA could attach a multi-part that would cause the rendering of a watermark.. 'This is NOT from PayPal'. But if it could figure that out, why would it allow it to be delivered in the first place? I can think of a raft of problems that would have to be overcome.. And still doesn't stop the 'phish', when it is sent with a non 'BIMI' (ex) format.. I see how it can be used to render an 'official' logo, (another 'tagged' element.. *sigh*) but don't see how it can stop forgeries.. And any form of remote image in emails can have it's own issues. I think the idea is going too far afield.. at least from an IMAP perspective. If I wanted to do that, it would be better if the SMTP server handled it, something like .. the message came from a source listed in the SPF record, so I will add a 'X-MTA-Source-Trusted' header. (of course, you have to first convince every MTA in the world to strip that header first during receipt, before it too could be trusted) That might be something for an SMTP group to look at.. as a capability? Maybe then it applies to IMAP, eg a capability saying it trusts the header the local MTA placed there.. The clients then could be responsible for showing 'source not trusted' unless the header was there.. But again, all very complex.. Encourage the ideal, but don't see it as the right approach, without more information. Anyways.. too late at night to give any real meaningful input, sorry John, but for us the focus is making sure that email accounts are not compromised in the first place, because that's how the most of the phishing reaches inboxes.. (oh, yeah and bad hosters, and detecting bad guys) Botnet phishing is easier to catch.. which is why we see all the botnets turning into brute force attacks against legitimate accounts instead.. I sure would like if more of this working group rallied around CLIENTID for IMAP as proposed, I sure enjoy the proven benefits here .. It would give every user of email that ability to 'lock' their Inbox. On 2019-02-26 7:06 p.m., John R. Levine wrote: > There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the > IETF.  Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it's a good > idea in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that seems dodgy to me. > > When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the mailstore, it > adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show next to the > message.  (Think of it as x-face for corporations.)  Since bad people > could phish victims with their own header with a misleading image, BIMI > invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA can set on messages > where it has added a virtuous header.  An MUA can test it to decide > whether to show the logo.  Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, > but it presumably stays with the message if it's moved from one folder > to another. > > Does existing IMAP software have this kind of privileged flag?  Is it > something that would be reasonable to implement, e.g., is there already > a concept of users at different privilege levels manipulating the same > mail store beyond just R/W and R/O?  The IMAP software I use is Dovecot, > where in the vast amount of badly organized documentation I don't see > anything like this, but maybe it's hiding and I don't know where to look. > > Advice from actual IMAP experts welcome. > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly > > PS: If as I suspect this is unlikely to be implementable, I have an > alternate approach that involves misusing DKIM. > > _______________________________________________ > Extra mailing list > Extra@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/extra -- "Catch the Magic of Linux..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc. Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca "LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company. From nobody Tue Feb 26 22:32:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CD5130E66 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 22:32:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yGiVTEwRypNI for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 22:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E727612F1A6 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 22:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D37FC05E2; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:34:17 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1551249257; bh=O3NWl0LXfLAGfXUz0caOqBUtWOV7xA68Kl8jU+en7Gs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=IssJTahMj0FjUxSMBMNS133LvTE3hnud7pOgqo3+WFM8I0zqnbyUqS5MqhdfRDXzK U3O5aHUwTx8a286qG45UiYY35tGkbEj4nMKkdgoA2XaE1938fqvqy+QXYGvgeOW4GD AM7hflVqufnV0s8hS7q97zZEfFg4Bd/3256/84rQ= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1551249256-2663-2661/9/145; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:34:16 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: "John R. Levine" Cc: extra@ietf.org Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 07:32:24 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Trojita/0.7; Qt/5.7.1; xcb; Linux; Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:32:31 -0000 On Wednesday 27 February 2019 04:06:36 CET, John R. Levine wrote: > There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere > in the IETF. Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether > it's a good idea in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature > that seems dodgy to me. > > When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the > mailstore, it adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo > to show next to the message. (Think of it as x-face for > corporations.) Since bad people could phish victims with their > own header with a misleading image, BIMI invents a new IMAP flag > that only the delivery MTA can set on messages where it has > added a virtuous header. An MUA can test it to decide whether > to show the logo. Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, > but it presumably stays with the message if it's moved from one > folder to another. There is a sort of expectation with IMAP that you can copy messages. That you can copy your entire mail archive from fastmail to gmail and the result will work as before. There are programs to do this, imapsync for example, and doesn't one of the big MUAs have this builtin, too? BIMI wouldn't. With BIMI, the copy would be degraded, not complete. Arnt From nobody Wed Feb 27 06:08:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 168B2130DE7 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:08:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QTY__rdtn1Tm for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from statler.isode.com (Statler.isode.com [62.232.206.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA4E1200B3 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:08:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1551276479; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=zNuL1w15utV3jr4af2NNrDpahezWY4x38x74ypgsQUM=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=T1cQDMOKnJah46iP/iIvKOXgeTdg1MZy8HQmYka22XW3cu0gMnD9UNA0vDi568GsWZlGgW ItrZFY0Gx4fCI6riuTSLytJ81oILRnP1cMRejAIIYIq6vGKKu12BCeSCsSazPS5fH9mOBW 7IiIvc+4aEZJaPfVdlKp8LP23LQa4M8=; Received: from [172.20.1.215] (dhcp-215.isode.net [172.20.1.215]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:07:58 +0000 To: Arnt Gulbrandsen , "John R. Levine" Cc: extra@ietf.org References: From: Alexey Melnikov Message-ID: <492e1fd1-d663-05b9-e2e5-993059bcc3f5@isode.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:07:44 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:08:02 -0000 On 27/02/2019 06:32, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > On Wednesday 27 February 2019 04:06:36 CET, John R. Levine wrote: >> There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in=20 >> the IETF.=C2=A0 Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it's a= =20 >> good idea in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that seems=20 >> dodgy to me. >> >> When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the mailstore,=20 >> it adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show next to=20 >> the message.=C2=A0 (Think of it as x-face for corporations.)=C2=A0 Since = bad=20 >> people could phish victims with their own header with a misleading=20 >> image, BIMI invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA can=20 >> set on messages where it has added a virtuous header.=C2=A0 An MUA can=20 >> test it to decide whether to show the logo.=C2=A0 Other IMAP or POP=20 >> clients can't set the flag, but it presumably stays with the message=20 >> if it's moved from one folder to another. > > There is a sort of expectation with IMAP that you can copy messages.=20 > That you can copy your entire mail archive from fastmail to gmail and=20 > the result will work as before. There are programs to do this,=20 > imapsync for example, and doesn't one of the big MUAs have this=20 > builtin, too? > > BIMI wouldn't. With BIMI, the copy would be degraded, not complete. To expand on this: the answer would depend on whether a particular IMAP=20 server supports a particular IMAP keyword or storage of arbitrary IMAP=20 keywords. Support for arboitrary IMAP keywords is relatively widely=20 implemented feature in IMAP servers, but unfortunately it is an optional=20 feature. From nobody Wed Feb 27 06:35:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E25130FDC for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:35:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fEINWy8UqtFK for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E312130FCF for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A80AC05E2; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:37:33 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1551278253; bh=dYuD6TvRI02w0qknpKMDUsVxkrTW0FBWOqNopqLAiJ0=; h=From:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=JzqL7N3ke+nb0XxapW26xqIuVHojixOhVmWUEUEWE9QQdcHGbWRhmdD2sGnq7/vbJ zWRecEWho90dLwnNdMvsYRWNHWFE9JcAkX/5spQ43MoGx9dW27CU6UB+b4cUPnHxN7 uaKudiE/t5os165zJnyGyKNdcPRhxQg20wVikuBw= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1551278252-26265-2661/9/35; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:37:32 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen Cc: extra@ietf.org Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 15:35:40 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <492e1fd1-d663-05b9-e2e5-993059bcc3f5@isode.com> References: <492e1fd1-d663-05b9-e2e5-993059bcc3f5@isode.com> User-Agent: Trojita/0.7; Qt/5.7.1; xcb; Linux; Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 14:35:46 -0000 Maybe I misunderstood. I thought that BIMI said: If a message is delivered by the system and meets some other conditions, then it gets a reserved flag, which the user is unable to set (or clear). And my response to that is that people expect to be able to copy their mail from one server to another. When messages are migrated then they lose the magic BIMI flag, because the new server sees them being inserted by the user using IMAP APPEND. This sounds to me as if it rather diminishes the point of BIMI... That some servers don't support flags is okay. The servers that can't be extended don't get a lot of new extensions anyway. (BTW, John, you reject my mail as spam. Even though I've been practically a hermit for a year now. I made this list-only on a whim.) Arnt From nobody Wed Feb 27 09:35:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5A813101F for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.208 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mrochek.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id geuDFgBFK_u2 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (unknown [66.159.242.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC492130FFB for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R3PE1J8A1S00OVQ8@mauve.mrochek.com> for extra@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=201712; t=1551288903; bh=rU/Ly7yYaDz/NvH/iwBFebL3sk0DxhCoSbr2MRRcBS4=; h=Cc:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To:From; b=WqYiAh0D3q4C65VQlZ7mVNOYbvs1LtPKJiUNkISj1nSwkNdu1uRTV7wgw3q+gxa4D sF/qXYlAT4FE2mOeZSOJHITrArs62jYvnUOs3SpxHL8Mhse74FZtCru81g39ygEGYF G8aFChQOUZIK1mE8+zZ+lnihLPnvdzdXNOBipou0= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R3MU6TZ3HS00004L@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:47:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: extra@ietf.org Message-id: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:45:44 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 26 Feb 2019 23:17:09 -0500" References: To: Bron Gondwana Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:35:11 -0000 > This isn't a standard feature on any IMAP server I'm aware of. > I can see how to implement it in Cyrus IMAPd. Add a custom numbered ACL to control a set of listed flags, and allow the delivery agent to have that ACL. > On the other hand... > We do something like this already at FastMail, and here's the thing.... the > user should be allowed to add or clear this header to change the interpretation > of the email in their mailbox. Once they have the message - they should be able > to update the BIMI status. This seems entirely reasonable to me, but now we're talking about updating the message content. This pretty much pushes it out of the header space as far as I'm concerned. > This is particularly important when you're talking about importing and > exporting email between systems. Having the flag to avoid phishing, sure. But > restricting MUAs from setting that flag - that's bogus. Exactly. > I guess I'm going to the BIMI session. Sounds like a good idea. Ned From nobody Wed Feb 27 09:35:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF46131029 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.208 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mrochek.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M1LivVoiwGJL for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (unknown [66.159.242.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27606130FE9 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R3PE1J8A1S00OVQ8@mauve.mrochek.com> for extra@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:35:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mrochek.com; s=201712; t=1551288901; bh=yFRgfExc7N23cwRGkUZoJ8/WGu0rfqLecziW7LQZtIk=; h=Cc:Date:From:Subject:In-reply-to:References:To:From; b=bKBLyJMI6rfJMPW/w4oZoyck1cmoOJmXZ6Qoc6LmPePPS/Wa1CZq4ZaQoWlmGDEaz H3CvVt+A4K3HFM61Kp5d6JvVb6UK8fR+oUeFr3MbVrjiYRgqoB6JYBMzpEbZiAcL68 nuB0WWmls0D2ff3/2oHtefYvZTrDODFfvnAXrE3w= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii; Format=flowed Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01R3MU6TZ3HS00004L@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:45:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: extra@ietf.org Message-id: <01R3P846CX8A00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:32:27 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 26 Feb 2019 22:06:36 -0500" References: To: "John R. Levine" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:35:11 -0000 > There is this thing called BIMI that is being debated elsewhere in the > IETF. Leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it's a good idea > in the first place, it invents an IMAP feature that seems dodgy to me. That's not all that's dodgy here. > When an MTA that supports BIMI delivers a message into the mailstore, it > adds a header that tells MUAs where to find a logo to show next to the > message. (Think of it as x-face for corporations.) Since bad people > could phish victims with their own header with a misleading image, BIMI > invents a new IMAP flag that only the delivery MTA can set on messages > where it has added a virtuous header. An MUA can test it to decide > whether to show the logo. Other IMAP or POP clients can't set the flag, > but it presumably stays with the message if it's moved from one folder to > another. First, this sounds to me like a layering violation (addition of message content after delivery) trying to sneak it's way in by pretending to be some sort of trace information. And since we have the ability to annotate messages, the first question that needs to be asked is why this isn't being done in the obvious way by simply annotating the message? My guess is the answer to that is something along the lines of, "Mumble mumble not all servers/clients support mumble mumble headers are cheap to fetch mumble", but really, we're in the process of launching a major new protocol in the client access space, and surely if there ever was a time to get the facilities people need in place, it's now. Second, the issue of who gets to set this information exists independent of how the information is stored or how access control to that information is implemented - although I do note that annotations have a rich set of access control features ready to hand that could be brought to bear here. And that model seems a bit bizarre to me. Why is the MTA necessarily the agent with the definitive take on the right logo to attach? Does the MTA never ever ever make mistakes in selecting a logo? Is the MTA invulnerable to attack? Does the logo never change after the fact? These questions, and many others, need to be answered before we even start to talk about how to implement this. Ned From nobody Wed Feb 27 09:49:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E9D131041 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:49:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T0K8sNEvl6_p for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B784F131055 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 09:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12752 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2019 17:49:16 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=31ce.5c76cd9c.k1902; bh=HsiQ0+4X6+ZTCQgw7ZqY4sCHrPSSSwwMRGcyGwuH6sI=; b=oc2cmgEsFmhwFGvlgnwGuJmFwyfWvBUsk1+ruZs2ay2F5pNpajYQrrhhE6Cd7Yrth8UmU0NVzORq7USZMEzJDuNE/Pg2eewq3pBhGTVkk+IqMEqiIVydznM/os8twO7mhkRx/4/pWkyCytuGRM9ZCvGbiuNpeq7itbEPtYd7bMYpF4ziOY/Iie+Ok7DJvSXrLSezpxBIzBVl3C9y48ZkWIhaFqKdShzzOyx4a7JLAHeV9PvKiOxzrfYWdTW7+DmL Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 27 Feb 2019 17:49:15 -0000 Date: 27 Feb 2019 12:49:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Ned Freed" Cc: extra@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <01R3P846CX8A00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <01R3P846CX8A00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (OSX 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:49:20 -0000 > And that model seems a bit bizarre to me. Why is the MTA necessarily the > agent with the definitive take on the right logo to attach? Does the MTA > never ever ever make mistakes in selecting a logo? Is the MTA > invulnerable to attack? Does the logo never change after the fact? These > questions, and many others, need to be answered before we even start to > talk about how to implement this. I'm working on another draft that attempts to explain (not justify) it. A lot of it boils down to the big gorillas are displaying logos now, so is there a way they can do so without inventing yet another club to which the rest of us are not invited. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly From nobody Wed Feb 27 13:01:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C839D124B0C for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.982 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.982 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HEADER_CTYPE_ONLY=0.717, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=YSEcy6j4; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=c/llQICF Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jf02-hf5dQRF for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:01:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F0D612426E for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:01:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2C93044 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:01:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:01:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from :to:subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=u+T8hydz0/9Aglg25AORL2KDJAhB dxdH/Hs41kihAUM=; b=YSEcy6j45+Yjh7t8kVzjY/+bdk55TEFpYo0pdZueWyuK 0/JPm8XOzFNAbkIRwST5Z8ME0MOT1jIGWdFgMo95IsNzE49XNMYKQJOCFiMYOUcK XXf6AhBLdNQNZo6/qPvNumkgXjntmLuMmXaVwF0cWnm2+WHzLPtrf4wL2QCH+kxh HaMbAfhQZomh477AdiEjIhTtnZxky8X2H2aMYTSUdDrsFu489AerwvPtUiRlM/TB 1Zu8pl4xeZqla+tuQUgouDd8qJGbxGYLG3c7TTgSYnqeRzjvn/O37/A89Xfp9cuR c4xkwuD1low2I0MhGdDp5i9wmVVSUZl8Nsyj5AwkpA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=u+T8hydz0/9Aglg25 AORL2KDJAhBdxdH/Hs41kihAUM=; b=c/llQICFyC/3v5JNuJVu/aAI+MSJgL0zP ZXxbPesgssn6DmDZl/QvsWAymQkxei1WfYalXPu53T+q3luSrRL4cVZn31B1DZir xN0DwYpYj7z2t62OKSvY0c283JoV+ZEtleoDmKyUb3yL+U7FpT+79S2vDlh5GPf0 WQuvEfaTGA74TQxlqE+C0CT3K9tjzP4vGbpuFZj9nxtoGSCLGAc8mkUt4fT3KTHV mKNc99d0UhX2i7apMAamktDSKtlF1NwyMIbm90Mur99kn2n02RkZPuXOeW/pjgqr Eu+ipmRLpHwvKYL+EHNfnmMYOQ8FcFcMLQrQJs1YM70zJXwur+tuw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddrvddugddugeegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgfkjghffffhvffutgesrgdtre erreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdeurhhonhcuifhonhgufigrnhgrfdcuoegsrhhonhhgsehf rghsthhmrghilhhtvggrmhdrtghomheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsrh honhhgsehfrghsthhmrghilhhtvggrmhdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 757832031D; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:01:07 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-918-g4e3ba4c-fmstable-20190227v1 X-Me-Personality: 56629417 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 16:01:07 -0500 From: "Bron Gondwana" To: extra@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0c77e698b4374b1fa122732c14f5d65f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:01:11 -0000 --0c77e698b4374b1fa122732c14f5d65f Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, at 04:35, Ned Freed wrote: > > We do something like this already at FastMail, and here's the thing.... the > > user should be allowed to add or clear this header to change the interpretation > > of the email in their mailbox. Once they have the message - they should be able > > to update the BIMI status. > > This seems entirely reasonable to me, but now we're talking about updating the > message content. This pretty much pushes it out of the header space as > far as I'm concerned. I corrected that almost immediately - but, yay immutable emails. I meant a keyword that they could update, not a header. Sorry. So the header gets added at delivery time, the same way an Authentication-Results header gets added, saying that DKIM / SPF passed or didn't pass. Fine. A keyword gets added to the message on delivery if that header is present. Fine. The keyword has a restricted ACL such that the user can't modify it afterwards. Not OK. Dislike. Unnecessary and likely to cause many issues. The "users could be phished to change the keyword" is an implausible argument in any mass market client that I've seen, and the side effects of trying to make read-only keywords are significant. > > This is particularly important when you're talking about importing and > > exporting email between systems. Having the flag to avoid phishing, sure. But > > restricting MUAs from setting that flag - that's bogus. > > Exactly. > > > I guess I'm going to the BIMI session. > > Sounds like a good idea. Fun times :) I've been tracking BIMI for a couple of years anyway, so it's not like I was ever NOT going to go. Bron. -- Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd brong@fastmailteam.com --0c77e698b4374b1fa122732c14f5d65f Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, at 04:35, Ned Freed wrote:
=
> We do something like this already at FastMail, and here'= s the thing.... the
> user= should be allowed to add or clear this header to change the interpretat= ion
> of the email in thei= r mailbox. Once they have the message - they should be able
> to update the BIMI status.
=

This seems entirely reasonable to me, but now we're talking about = updating the
message content.= This pretty much pushes it out of the header space as 
far as I'm concerned.

I corrected that almost immediately - but, yay immutable email= s.  I meant a keyword that they could update, not a header.  S= orry.

So the header gets added at delivery time, the same= way an Authentication-Results header gets added, saying that DKIM / SPF= passed or didn't pass.  Fine.

A keyword gets added = to the message on delivery if that header is present.  Fine.

The keyword has a restricted ACL such that the user can't modif= y it afterwards.  Not OK.  Dislike.  Unnecessary and like= ly to cause many issues.  The "users could be phished to change the= keyword" is an implausible argument in any mass market client that I've= seen, and the side effects of trying to make read-only keywords are sig= nificant.

> This is particularly important when you're talking about importin= g and
> exporting email be= tween systems. Having the flag to avoid phishing, sure. But
> restricting MUAs from setting that f= lag - that's bogus.

Exactly.

> I guess = I'm going to the BIMI session.

Sounds like a good idea.

Fun times :)

I've been trackin= g BIMI for a couple of years anyway, so it's not like I was ever NOT goi= ng to go.

Bron.
=

--
  Bron Go= ndwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
  b= rong@fastmailteam.com

=

--0c77e698b4374b1fa122732c14f5d65f-- From nobody Wed Feb 27 17:57:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15785130ED1 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:57:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=gXphi0lU; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=M3NFgO73 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2UYccamP0YA4 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A697130ECF for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 17:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 69009 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2019 01:57:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=10d8e.5c773fee.k1902; bh=C2GqWQT8Wfq/ry0ysDzGs/sz0C9f37kY3Mp3nf7AD78=; b=gXphi0lUTFR1OSuDmeqpCiK0nAKXZ68eQTsTSyjyggZ4+HS7i8rK52i5QFvXOt1a5RV/4Df/OXsX9mD62kWdWFb+psag1SU22YKnyIpLxJoB+AO736HVql1eCi0cZONgsiZ1C5gSS/Vmeity1PtIyw6gOh+tetmy3MpeQlYHR5eF/8mU7o/bIFUXQ2CS33A4IkmlbYnOL/rXc89Va4lS+NiTGol7D3zcJMl43VQuR1JQy+xrSyWU/yB3CcUCZ21Y DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=10d8e.5c773fee.k1902; bh=C2GqWQT8Wfq/ry0ysDzGs/sz0C9f37kY3Mp3nf7AD78=; b=M3NFgO73Vas6KYk1XZSPPQCjWxrSzgkfEL7TcyMQvnct3s+eql3HYRJk3oQAafP4I2j5gtLOCkj9dUocuh1+q1+0pF2hEt/7DkO5d3Xx+B2zEUIIDZtdRw6xWgFe8DUUG/WSG4wTRjFISXQRfuQpGN7Prl8nT1uKStcjSRFf71HL0HeAtu73T/C8/Urou91aj57TkZWtNDI5qLr+aDeNjPSkwnsMbTgVMOStrjzDMS5E6KIl4AbRhtX5noOmCVe6 Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 28 Feb 2019 01:57:02 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5B252200F6CDEE; Wed, 27 Feb 2019 20:57:01 -0500 (EST) Date: 27 Feb 2019 20:57:01 -0500 Message-Id: <20190228015702.5B252200F6CDEE@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: extra@ietf.org Cc: brong@fastmailteam.com In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 01:57:07 -0000 In article you write: >The keyword has a restricted ACL such that the user can't modify it afterwards. Not OK. Dislike. Unnecessary and likely >to cause many issues. I had a chat with some of the BIMI people and pointed out that privileged IMAP flags are unlikely to work well, and in any event, if you have IMAP clients that can put malicious stuff into your mailstore, you've got worse problems than what logo appears next to the phish. R's, John From nobody Thu Feb 28 01:34:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD91E130E7D for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 01:34:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6h6YA3xTqbEq for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 01:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [144.76.73.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5E3C130E85 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 01:34:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53EAEC05E3; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 09:35:48 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1551346548; bh=YjJRALqDVNRkJ95EktTSVJM2Z/DY19oRFA0ayljCugc=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Ns8s54JujE3r9zSCkVcggPmxPy0hVTNCE6i2a1x/FVHWTp24DUUq/gk+nGhXrNZXd qCIYR6ygNjPUz1WTtCiWlwN3+I3O+JaDPiZ5p+gz5OozKzE2LFTSYpMP+CFO0l8LWD PYvIPsM7ahqZd/3+fOQbQaImp1BFLDCDPfrVUpMw= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1551346547-2663-2661/9/149; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 09:35:47 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: extra@ietf.org Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:33:55 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <8ce7f4bf-805d-4fbe-8854-5381a4346b2a@gulbrandsen.priv.no> In-Reply-To: <20190228015702.5B252200F6CDEE@ary.local> References: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> <20190228015702.5B252200F6CDEE@ary.local> User-Agent: Trojita/0.7; Qt/5.7.1; xcb; Linux; Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 09:34:03 -0000 On Thursday 28 February 2019 02:57:01 CET, John Levine wrote: > I had a chat with some of the BIMI people and pointed out that > privileged IMAP flags are unlikely to work well, and in any event, if > you have IMAP clients that can put malicious stuff into your > mailstore, you've got worse problems than what logo appears next to > the phish. You're proposing something more like... x-face meets dkim? Good. If you do it by adding a field to either content-type or content-disposition, a bit like 3676, then it's easy for imap clients to do what gmail does, oops, I meant behave in a user-friendly manner. No new protocol is needed in that case. Arnt From nobody Thu Feb 28 08:12:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0613130EBE for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 08:12:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=SUfX9CMt; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=gpND4P0y Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJgwTEmd2T7N for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 08:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8716F12008A for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 08:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 58309 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2019 16:12:14 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=e3c3.5c78085e.k1902; bh=H15VSlll29b94Aed++C7XKKivaZF4ajishI5fyC30E8=; b=SUfX9CMtED3+wloWNBvIp3PAvJcDg3Gy7Icj3/DmcWkvIelsO4cjimBshiuxcAVK86OVs4drE8Wf0Z9PxRDFetMcUGWKA8/8Gz5T4jTVeb8e/vx5xtlRTbO2/p2xnKqkfqWfizh/qDGLCSx/a01KEYTWLLx1M88izqeaMB9re1cmwAmociOty8VWsS0G5Bp+1D1CeHK4Sf6wiBx4vr4Cqhfg7Ito3lNZ/FLnEDfrCSJiWrHasIS5tchy2kxnZodc DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=e3c3.5c78085e.k1902; bh=H15VSlll29b94Aed++C7XKKivaZF4ajishI5fyC30E8=; b=gpND4P0yeil3VoqSu1EIB7WokfZUapS5/eFEp1RtnQZybBEpe1bzBUIuMTmRooXJWowSUgrQbRO1Dkm3AZs3xoUUwOjXARE0nq0KfSTTW88HGr/2byOXYaK8P+GN5PGh6lhj8PWaf3gAUzAo7u3+m8IzUrFDoziday/XL1YGNKzjd4md5MSb4rj8QG08Ha9OH+PuU9BEjz8rGcaLJD5AOKwpwrPBvDkt2AyXrL0RWr7tEVGE0sWosor8MeadIuOt Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 28 Feb 2019 16:12:14 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id D1442200F6FF92; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 11:12:13 -0500 (EST) Date: 28 Feb 2019 11:12:13 -0500 Message-Id: <20190228161213.D1442200F6FF92@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: extra@ietf.org Cc: arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no In-Reply-To: <8ce7f4bf-805d-4fbe-8854-5381a4346b2a@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:12:19 -0000 In article <8ce7f4bf-805d-4fbe-8854-5381a4346b2a@gulbrandsen.priv.no> you write: >You're proposing something more like... x-face meets dkim? Good. More or less. >If you do it by adding a field to either content-type or >content-disposition, a bit like 3676, then it's easy ... Urrgh. Most of the mail that's likely to have a logo is multipart/alternative and I'm not interested in wrapping contents in yet more MIME layers, which would among other things break any existing DKIM signatures. It's more like you add the x-face header, then add a new DKIM signature that includes the x-face along with the usual stuff, and the MUA decides to believe it because the signature is from its imap provider. R's, John From nobody Thu Feb 28 10:08:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F689130F04 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:08:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N_Zhw37P17fY for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FD0B12F1AB for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 10:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51924C05E3; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:09:57 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1551377397; bh=Chtygh/p2KVktBtN6LrcbU+Cy2u8V58vg0AEsL+E5gY=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=hS8RPKW1jhy5AW8+J+CdpOslfIPsYiH+v3c3U+CSfK/YWqc3UJ8wWCbsSviH3db14 96zZRfwUFrZzKMlwJPRf4eqk5+Zob58+CJNPOKM55bR3pwYUf+QdVW+8y7iv7yOQlD BILiL2gokTiSvnLcWl3GvqPu2z1BfC8uMY7o1Ykc= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1551377396-2663-2661/9/152; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:09:56 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: extra@ietf.org Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:08:04 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01fd8d9e-fe47-453a-b4e0-f0a9d68ce43b@gulbrandsen.priv.no> In-Reply-To: <20190228161213.D1442200F6FF92@ary.local> References: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> <20190228015702.5B252200F6CDEE@ary.local> <8ce7f4bf-805d-4fbe-8854-5381a4346b2a@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <20190228161213.D1442200F6FF92@ary.local> User-Agent: Trojita/0.7; Qt/5.7.1; xcb; Linux; Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0 (ascii) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:08:11 -0000 On Thursday 28 February 2019 17:12:13 CET, John Levine wrote: > Urrgh. Most of the mail that's likely to have a logo is > multipart/alternative > and I'm not interested in wrapping contents in yet more MIME > layers, which would > among other things break any existing DKIM signatures. You don't need that. Look at 3676. It doesn't wrap, it marks. In this case, either mark the top-level multipart with the content-id of the logo content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=foo; logo=bar (the logo will mostly have a content-id because the html refers to it) or mark the bodypart with the logo content-type: image/jpeg; content-id=bar; logo or mark the logo's disposition content-disposition: attachment; logo It's not obvious to me which way is the best. Is being a logo part of the type or rather part of the disposition? I don't even want o discuss that. All are immutable though, since they're part of the message, and the info is returned as part of the FETCH BODYSTRUCTURE command most/all clients use. Very easy to implement in typical clients, and zero work for the server. Arnt From nobody Thu Feb 28 13:11:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44A8126C01 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:11:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=Ezh/n9qs; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=kxBWc3Kj Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x3z1l18Y3nMC for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59A2E128D52 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 19290 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2019 21:11:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=4b56.5c784e7b.k1902; bh=qN8u5DhRJhadpSQuJ9Wm0pybU5At4wAkE2D0KKYeWqI=; b=Ezh/n9qsYxRtQViFBA2KmwrP3OJgwGuNWN+D+sTZEfAZvaEugdCAEz4LiipBM0iS4vMJhjdhT7+Co0YB92oeNF9ks2oDQMpjvp+CS5gg/a0K5aYd3RbmGZKEC4GEenmQqiBeffqnnFQDnICML3hUwo9wBHLIYiupRPr78MpOoE+i2a3YxD8/EK1a54lHTtD7WnOSBpgD5swuKvPT0A78yD5vmA6AvOM4XZVr33tjJskT4tPD2gzSyRyECShhvWoR DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=4b56.5c784e7b.k1902; bh=qN8u5DhRJhadpSQuJ9Wm0pybU5At4wAkE2D0KKYeWqI=; b=kxBWc3Kj9c1NWj+CSuN1ezX4kw8kypm/W6fLhB3G1/neIxEP5IqJXJJN47Jj/6De+JPPlJilBR6Csqb2IXHZlzamh2rDoabszzwmAMA2z/lQCBBsHTxdAgznCjYw4EyMaXIJkm9fQV51hfd7+idK+WPKjnuyxhbiH/uSgHvK2+16ISaa/YukebC0guP/y0pgWb66WIe2RFscv9frFGR3at5jUVXKwjsknDWMIwMZWeRo9HGOhLIKaP5rWRdq2IUl Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 28 Feb 2019 21:11:23 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 08E97200F73515; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:11:22 -0500 (EST) Date: 28 Feb 2019 16:11:22 -0500 Message-Id: <20190228211123.08E97200F73515@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: extra@ietf.org Cc: arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no In-Reply-To: <01fd8d9e-fe47-453a-b4e0-f0a9d68ce43b@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 21:11:28 -0000 In article <01fd8d9e-fe47-453a-b4e0-f0a9d68ce43b@gulbrandsen.priv.no> you write: >On Thursday 28 February 2019 17:12:13 CET, John Levine wrote: >> Urrgh. Most of the mail that's likely to have a logo is >> multipart/alternative >> and I'm not interested in wrapping contents in yet more MIME >> layers, which would >> among other things break any existing DKIM signatures. > >You don't need that. Look at 3676. It doesn't wrap, it marks. In this case, >either mark the top-level multipart with the content-id of the logo > > content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=foo; logo=bar Breaks DKIM signatures. > content-type: image/jpeg; content-id=bar; logo Breaks DKIM signatures. >or mark the logo's disposition > > content-disposition: attachment; logo Breaks DKIM signatures. R's, John From nobody Thu Feb 28 14:15:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 866B112958B for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:15:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dAoq8rCziMQd for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACF08124408 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 14:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4E7C05E3; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:53 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1551392213; bh=UMxZA7lKU4MGfYChKlOH71zs+glZ5vuYn1+jK9TcjTU=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:References:From; b=oXcb4PLZcqAl+G/3Mt7S+8Z+E3ISlrARxUyOy3MyjPq+fZ+yK/oUQobdq3YoalZcH zyMPrOZxju2gqmwo4mNdlqlcTQjXsqXm5RBxchGvBjnSFN1D5vLpPalD77VksfH1Nl +8l+PS5D74zdpjIGSV1Wwt+zqTIFJM7FTyFRCMvk= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1551392211-26265-2661/9/45; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:16:51 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: extra@ietf.org Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:14:59 +0100 Message-Id: References: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> <20190228015702.5B252200F6CDEE@ary.local> <8ce7f4bf-805d-4fbe-8854-5381a4346b2a@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <20190228161213.D1442200F6FF92@ary.local> <01fd8d9e-fe47-453a-b4e0-f0a9d68ce43b@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <20190228211123.08E97200F73515@ary.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:15:05 -0000 I suppose I misunderstood. You are saying that the sender cannot supply the logo, right? The recipient decided whether to display AND procures a logo? Arnt From nobody Thu Feb 28 16:15:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB8212D7F8 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:15:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=AADz7tqH; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=tkc6xF/2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5k8z3-A_UTS6 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 598BA12D4F3 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 66588 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2019 00:15:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=10419.5c7879b5.k1902; bh=+rgb1RmH7YeWon8FnuU2uJgrN3Ak0Xll/1ksr810RhI=; b=AADz7tqHEDppA0bs+VUm+lnodx1FqCGvLWGKiqeje0VDD+9xorW7YSwaXA2mGeFekWguwOKDCPYZo21PGdG2YGFyLk5OSdItC/FM47AwXCdRdmBMqwsSLugvvhMyWhr1smLd+FfNsZHDwQPMoyefnq9P+gJVsgDJENT5gT74rkHWjiK6WBFeg7wrbx6TtqNQ1/rcpRGCKu0tYzLtTZrtj6c5JHDHEr9314lQI5iRndZYhNOIQf9TTs7fDqE+2BFM DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=10419.5c7879b5.k1902; bh=+rgb1RmH7YeWon8FnuU2uJgrN3Ak0Xll/1ksr810RhI=; b=tkc6xF/2QVPc+5pZa1VaDwUX0FoTTscz1p1tA17pXgumvobwAFpnJjuYaeFlVomgqOx6v9q/cyyW/VQkjQrW4U0WTMSI5DGlxcGqs0kzClby412Z5Z+a/9Kqk//PcByIC/gh0zh8PN5IgFVLZxRbMU/saPveA1irZsznq3ZBLd0/p5JlzL4zQiqkk5SyfJS8+jVkIxnx7ZFCusdrhc0qCd7KSVA1sk7kpsWfhiAX1EVs4k6r7JUWuXVB7mQAgskm Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 01 Mar 2019 00:15:49 -0000 Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 034DA200F759FD; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:15:48 -0500 (EST) Date: 28 Feb 2019 19:15:48 -0500 Message-Id: <20190301001549.034DA200F759FD@ary.local> From: "John Levine" To: extra@ietf.org Cc: arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:15:53 -0000 In article you write: >I suppose I misunderstood. You are saying that the sender cannot supply >the logo, right? The recipient decided whether to display AND procures >a logo? The sender supplies the logo (through a process that's currently baroquely indirect, but the recipient MTA decides whether to display it and puts something in a header to indicate that. Without some sort of validation, this screams PHISH ME NOW! R's, John From nobody Thu Feb 28 23:30:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: extra@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D6712D4EC for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:30:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kAdX3MfpPWH4 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [144.76.73.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61EBD129508 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3]) by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF7EC05E2; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 07:32:31 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no; s=mail; t=1551425551; bh=yFRvZ0Ezd671wyiONDP7yTeup9FkxWp/4mRLtfZhZbI=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:References:From; b=e4hWdL4gUshsWpQVRtbJuRfT21KJn6SpEPvjQGlBaagaV9UVMLkqUgT/+QdEEzIMN MsmSjvr/HxW6Z2hEOP36kdPG5GFft5rheC508sJuLzHL8cB7Y+uwTZ6g+QJDTPrX6f Hod88LBhA6leEI1FtAYfdW0ZYzj+P1shvTWeiIfE= Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1551425549-26265-2661/10/9397; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 07:32:29 +0000 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: extra@ietf.org Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 08:30:34 +0100 Message-Id: References: <01R3P86JVOOM00004L@mauve.mrochek.com> <20190228015702.5B252200F6CDEE@ary.local> <8ce7f4bf-805d-4fbe-8854-5381a4346b2a@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <20190228161213.D1442200F6FF92@ary.local> <01fd8d9e-fe47-453a-b4e0-f0a9d68ce43b@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <20190228211123.08E97200F73515@ary.local> <20190301001549.034DA200F759FD@ary.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Extra] Is this a plausible IMAP extension ? X-BeenThere: extra@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Email mailstore and eXtensions To Revise or Amend List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 07:30:44 -0000 So why not let the sender supply the logo by marking a body part, and then specifying when and whether to use it? Why must the logo be marked/inserted/supplied after the DKIM signature? Arnt