From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Jun  1 07:36:50 2001
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        kanaide@toyocom.co.jp, ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Slow response. I'm very busy now. Little by little,
I catch up with this thread.

>   4.2 Address designation
> 
>    An onramp gateway MUST have the function that onramp gateway analyze
>    destination address from address data sent by facsimile device over
>    GSTN.
> 
> There isn't any "destination address [...] sent by facsimile device under
> GSTN".   I'm not sure what section 4.2 is requiring, but as there isn't
> any "destination address" in T.30 / T.4, and not all facsimile devices
> can get the DNIS, I'm not sure what this section is requiring.
> 
> I know there was a proposal to add some sort of information to T.30 --
> is this what you're referring to?  I'm really unclear where the
> information described in 4.2.1 comes from over the GSTN...?

Dan,
for your information, this signal is already included in T.30.
It is IRA(Internet Routing Address).
It can convey the E-mail address to receiver.

Sender            Receiver
CNG           ->
              <- CED
              <- (CSI)DIS
(IRA)(TSI)DCS ->
          TCF ->
              <- CFR
              .
              .

So, if a T.30 fax machine and an onramp gateway support IRA signal,
the fax machine can directly set E-mail address and send the image data
to the address.

Sender ->   Receiver(Onramp GW) -> ... -> abc@zyd.com
       T.30                     Mail

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Jun  1 11:47:28 2001
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From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
To: "Hiroshi Tamura" <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
Cc: <mimu@toyocom.co.jp>, <k1@toyocom.co.jp>, <zsatou@toyocom.co.jp>,
        <kanaide@toyocom.co.jp>, <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:07:06 -0700
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Thanks.  If this is the intent of the text, the text in the Internet Draft
should use words like "IRA" and "Internet Routing Address".


I suggest, also, that this isn't a MUST requirement, as supporting the IRA
isn't required for an onramp to interoperate with the PSTN or with the
Internet.  The only thing that an onramp need to do is support at least one
method of routing messages to a user -- it need not support several methods of
routing.  IRA is merely one of the (many) routing methods.  Obviously
supporting IRA will enhance its usefulness as more and more vendors support
it, but its use on the transmitting fax requires a change in user behavior.
We're all aware of the difficulties of changing fax user's behavior!

-d

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> Behalf Of Hiroshi Tamura
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:04 PM
> To: dwing@cisco.com
> Cc: mimu@toyocom.co.jp; k1@toyocom.co.jp; zsatou@toyocom.co.jp;
> kanaide@toyocom.co.jp; ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
>
>
> Slow response. I'm very busy now. Little by little,
> I catch up with this thread.
>
> >   4.2 Address designation
> >
> >    An onramp gateway MUST have the function that onramp gateway analyze
> >    destination address from address data sent by facsimile device over
> >    GSTN.
> >
> > There isn't any "destination address [...] sent by facsimile device under
> > GSTN".   I'm not sure what section 4.2 is requiring, but as there isn't
> > any "destination address" in T.30 / T.4, and not all facsimile devices
> > can get the DNIS, I'm not sure what this section is requiring.
> >
> > I know there was a proposal to add some sort of information to T.30 --
> > is this what you're referring to?  I'm really unclear where the
> > information described in 4.2.1 comes from over the GSTN...?
>
> Dan,
> for your information, this signal is already included in T.30.
> It is IRA(Internet Routing Address).
> It can convey the E-mail address to receiver.
>
> Sender            Receiver
> CNG           ->
>               <- CED
>               <- (CSI)DIS
> (IRA)(TSI)DCS ->
>           TCF ->
>               <- CFR
>               .
>               .
>
> So, if a T.30 fax machine and an onramp gateway support IRA signal,
> the fax machine can directly set E-mail address and send the image data
> to the address.
>
> Sender ->   Receiver(Onramp GW) -> ... -> abc@zyd.com
>        T.30                     Mail
>
> Regards,
> --
> Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
> tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Jun  4 02:24:24 2001
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Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:50:04 +0900
From: Katsuhiko Mimura <mimu@toyocom.co.jp>
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        zsatou@toyocom.co.jp, kanaide@toyocom.co.jp, ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
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Thank you for your suggestion.

I think, on the Onramp action,
it is necessary to correspond to a lot of
destination E-mail addresses.
There are actually many users who demand
two or more addresses with Fax service.

And I think it an indispensable function
that a Onramp gateway gets to know all the E-mail
addresses that a user specifies correctly.

And, the machine which is not equipped
with the function to input a character required
  in order to specify E-mail address exists
in G3FAX machine which the user is using.

A user can specify an E-mail address
immediately and can also specify indirectly.
It does not depend on the means for transmitting
E-mail address information.

It is required to interpret correctly the
address information which the gateway received.

So, I think that section 4.2 is required.
And I would like to change the first sentence
of the abstract to:

   An Internet FAX Gateway provides functions
   which translate facsimile between the general
   switched telephone network (GSTN) the Internet.
   This document provides information on recommended
   behaviors for Internet FAX Gateways Functions for
   email-based Internet fax.

And I would like to change the third sentence in the
first paragraph of section 1 to:

    A more detailed definition of onramps and offramps
    for email-based Internet fax is provided in [RFC2542].
    Internet FAX Gateways functions for real-time
    Internet fax are defined in [T.38].

/mimura

Dan Wing wrote:

> Thanks.  If this is the intent of the text, the text in the Internet Draft
> should use words like "IRA" and "Internet Routing Address".
> 
> 
> I suggest, also, that this isn't a MUST requirement, as supporting the IRA
> isn't required for an onramp to interoperate with the PSTN or with the
> Internet.  The only thing that an onramp need to do is support at least one
> method of routing messages to a user -- it need not support several methods of
> routing.  IRA is merely one of the (many) routing methods.  Obviously
> supporting IRA will enhance its usefulness as more and more vendors support
> it, but its use on the transmitting fax requires a change in user behavior.
> We're all aware of the difficulties of changing fax user's behavior!
> 
> -d
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
>> Behalf Of Hiroshi Tamura
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:04 PM
>> To: dwing@cisco.com
>> Cc: mimu@toyocom.co.jp; k1@toyocom.co.jp; zsatou@toyocom.co.jp;
>> kanaide@toyocom.co.jp; ietf-fax@imc.org
>> Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
>> 
>> 
>> Slow response. I'm very busy now. Little by little,
>> I catch up with this thread.
>> 
>> 
>>>   4.2 Address designation
>>> 
>>>    An onramp gateway MUST have the function that onramp gateway analyze
>>>    destination address from address data sent by facsimile device over
>>>    GSTN.
>>> 
>>> There isn't any "destination address [...] sent by facsimile device under
>>> GSTN".   I'm not sure what section 4.2 is requiring, but as there isn't
>>> any "destination address" in T.30 / T.4, and not all facsimile devices
>>> can get the DNIS, I'm not sure what this section is requiring.
>>> 
>>> I know there was a proposal to add some sort of information to T.30 --
>>> is this what you're referring to?  I'm really unclear where the
>>> information described in 4.2.1 comes from over the GSTN...?
>> 
>> Dan,
>> for your information, this signal is already included in T.30.
>> It is IRA(Internet Routing Address).
>> It can convey the E-mail address to receiver.
>> 
>> Sender            Receiver
>> CNG           ->
>>               <- CED
>>               <- (CSI)DIS
>> (IRA)(TSI)DCS ->
>>           TCF ->
>>               <- CFR
>>               .
>>               .
>> 
>> So, if a T.30 fax machine and an onramp gateway support IRA signal,
>> the fax machine can directly set E-mail address and send the image data
>> to the address.
>> 
>> Sender ->   Receiver(Onramp GW) -> ... -> abc@zyd.com
>>        T.30                     Mail
>> 
>> Regards,
>> --
>> Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
>> tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Jun  4 15:57:20 2001
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From: "Terry Brookes" <brookes_terry@hotmail.com>
To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: G3 Fax Machine to E_Mail
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:19:37 -0400
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Gentlefolk,

As experts in the field of Internet Fax you may find the following site of 
interest.

www.POLYFAX.com

G3 fax machine to EMail, no IRA, no special hardware, even sends faxes to 
Instant Messengers.

Apologies if too far off topic.

Terry Brookes
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun  6 07:26:37 2001
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Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:44:47 +0100
To: agenda@ietf.org
cc: Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?= <paf@cisco.com>,
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From: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
Subject: 51st IETF WG/BOF Scheduling - ietf-fax slot request
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Hallo,
here is the request form for the ietf-fax WG:

>   a. Working Group or BOF full name:

    Internet Fax WG (fax)

>   b. AREA under which Working Group or BOF appears:

    Applications

>   c. CONFLICTS you wish to avoid, please be as specific as possible:

    IPP, VPIM, IMPP, RESCAP, ENUM WGs and possibly MEGACO

>   d. Expected Attendance:

    35-40

>   e. Special requests (i.e. multicast):

    well, many wg members expressed they'd like to be able to leave on
    friday morning (... Japan is "far east" also from London) :-)

>   f. Number of slots:

    1 (one)

>   g. Length of slot: 

    2.5 hours (alternatively: 2.0 hours)

Regards,
Claudio Allocchio - IETF FAX WG co-chair



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun  6 13:43:12 2001
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	Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:09:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
To: "Katsuhiko Mimura" <mimu@toyocom.co.jp>
Cc: "Hiroshi Tamura" <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>, <k1@toyocom.co.jp>,
        <zsatou@toyocom.co.jp>, <kanaide@toyocom.co.jp>, <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:09:30 -0700
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> Behalf Of Katsuhiko Mimura
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:50 PM
> To: Dan Wing
> Cc: Hiroshi Tamura; k1@toyocom.co.jp; zsatou@toyocom.co.jp;
> kanaide@toyocom.co.jp; ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
>
>
> Thank you for your suggestion.
>
> I think, on the Onramp action,
> it is necessary to correspond to a lot of
> destination E-mail addresses.
> There are actually many users who demand
> two or more addresses with Fax service.
>
> And I think it an indispensable function
> that a Onramp gateway gets to know all the E-mail
> addresses that a user specifies correctly.
>
> And, the machine which is not equipped
> with the function to input a character required
>   in order to specify E-mail address exists
> in G3FAX machine which the user is using.
>
> A user can specify an E-mail address
> immediately and can also specify indirectly.
> It does not depend on the means for transmitting
> E-mail address information.
>
> It is required to interpret correctly the
> address information which the gateway received.
>
> So, I think that section 4.2 is required.

It isn't required for interoperability with any existing G3 fax machine, nor
with SMTP mailers.  Thus, I don't see the requirement.

I agree it is a very valuable feature, but I don't see the requirement for
interoperability.

My cite is section 6 of RFC2119 which says this regarding the use of
imperatives (including MUST):

   Imperatives of the type defined in this memo must be used with care
   and sparingly.  In particular, they MUST only be used where it is
   actually required for interoperation or to limit behavior which has
   potential for causing harm (e.g., limiting retransmisssions)  For
   example, they must not be used to try to impose a particular method
   on implementors where the method is not required for
   interoperability.

Again, interpretation of the Internet Routing Address (IRA) in T.30 isn't
required for interoperation with existing G3 fax machines.  There are many
other ways, which you have listed in your document (redialers, for example),
and several which you didn't (DNIS or perhaps even ANI).  It is important for
full-function onramp gateways to support one of these mechanism, and perhaps
even all of them, but this is a marketing decision by the vendor and
purchasing decision by the end user.

For example, if a user decides to use the simple DNIS method to route incoming
faxes to the appropriate user's email address, there simply is no need for
their onramp gateway to support the T.30 IRA.  That's why I'm objecting to
this MUST requirement in your specification.

> And I would like to change the first sentence
> of the abstract to:
>
>    An Internet FAX Gateway provides functions
>    which translate facsimile between the general
>    switched telephone network (GSTN) the Internet.
>    This document provides information on recommended
>    behaviors for Internet FAX Gateways Functions for
>    email-based Internet fax.
>
> And I would like to change the third sentence in the
> first paragraph of section 1 to:
>
>     A more detailed definition of onramps and offramps
>     for email-based Internet fax is provided in [RFC2542].
>     Internet FAX Gateways functions for real-time
>     Internet fax are defined in [T.38].

-d

>
> /mimura
>
> Dan Wing wrote:
>
> > Thanks.  If this is the intent of the text, the text in the Internet Draft
> > should use words like "IRA" and "Internet Routing Address".
> >
> >
> > I suggest, also, that this isn't a MUST requirement, as supporting the IRA
> > isn't required for an onramp to interoperate with the PSTN or with the
> > Internet.  The only thing that an onramp need to do is support at
> least one
> > method of routing messages to a user -- it need not support
> several methods of
> > routing.  IRA is merely one of the (many) routing methods.  Obviously
> > supporting IRA will enhance its usefulness as more and more
> vendors support
> > it, but its use on the transmitting fax requires a change in user
> behavior.
> > We're all aware of the difficulties of changing fax user's behavior!
> >
> > -d
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> >> Behalf Of Hiroshi Tamura
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:04 PM
> >> To: dwing@cisco.com
> >> Cc: mimu@toyocom.co.jp; k1@toyocom.co.jp; zsatou@toyocom.co.jp;
> >> kanaide@toyocom.co.jp; ietf-fax@imc.org
> >> Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-04.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> Slow response. I'm very busy now. Little by little,
> >> I catch up with this thread.
> >>
> >>
> >>>   4.2 Address designation
> >>>
> >>>    An onramp gateway MUST have the function that onramp gateway analyze
> >>>    destination address from address data sent by facsimile device over
> >>>    GSTN.
> >>>
> >>> There isn't any "destination address [...] sent by facsimile
> device under
> >>> GSTN".   I'm not sure what section 4.2 is requiring, but as there isn't
> >>> any "destination address" in T.30 / T.4, and not all facsimile devices
> >>> can get the DNIS, I'm not sure what this section is requiring.
> >>>
> >>> I know there was a proposal to add some sort of information to T.30 --
> >>> is this what you're referring to?  I'm really unclear where the
> >>> information described in 4.2.1 comes from over the GSTN...?
> >>
> >> Dan,
> >> for your information, this signal is already included in T.30.
> >> It is IRA(Internet Routing Address).
> >> It can convey the E-mail address to receiver.
> >>
> >> Sender            Receiver
> >> CNG           ->
> >>               <- CED
> >>               <- (CSI)DIS
> >> (IRA)(TSI)DCS ->
> >>           TCF ->
> >>               <- CFR
> >>               .
> >>               .
> >>
> >> So, if a T.30 fax machine and an onramp gateway support IRA signal,
> >> the fax machine can directly set E-mail address and send the image data
> >> to the address.
> >>
> >> Sender ->   Receiver(Onramp GW) -> ... -> abc@zyd.com
> >>        T.30                     Mail
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> --
> >> Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
> >> tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp
>



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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Content Negotiation for Internet Messaging Services
	Author(s)	: G. Klyne, R. Iwazaki, D. Crocker
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-05.txt
	Pages		: 50
	Date		: 12-Jun-01
	
This memo describes a content negotiation mechanism for facsimile,
voice and other messaging services that use Internet e-mail.
Services such as facsimile and voice messaging need to cope with
new message content formats, yet need to ensure that the content of
any given message is renderable by the receiving agent.  The
mechanism described here aims to meet these needs in a fashion that
is fully compatible with the current behaviour and expectations of
Internet e-mail.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Sat Jun 16 23:20:50 2001
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Thanks, the editors.
It seems that the work has almost finished.

But, for our confirmation, how do you proceed with the followings?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  REVIEW CHECKLIST:

  (Points to be checked more widely on or before final review)

  o  Check the correct final disposition for lost message data (3.4)

  o  Editorial:  IANA action for new message headers (section 9.1)?
     Handling of internal document references.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I think 3.4 is one of difficult issues to deal with.
But, the description here can be acceptable.

The Minneapolis minutes for this I-D.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   He presented the status of the documents. There were a few discussions
   in ML in February and they are already considered in next version.
   Except for that, there were no comments in the last weeks, thus it seems
   ready for final publication. The WG did no objection to it.

   Larry Masinter suggests that "content-type" should always be included
   in "content-alternative" header. The editor replied that this is only
   needed when a non-TIFF file format is being used. In ML, this issue
   will be resolved.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the unsolved issues there, it seems that -05 covers everything.

As a co-chair, I would like to know your final decision.
Last call or something.....

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp




From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Sun Jun 17 04:33:08 2001
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My view is this:

If the working group is happy with the resolution as stated, there is no 
more to do.  The "checklist" was there to draw attention to items we felt 
might be handled differently.

I think this draft is ready for last call.

#g
--

At 11:17 AM 6/17/01 +0900, Hiroshi Tamura wrote:

>Thanks, the editors.
>It seems that the work has almost finished.
>
>But, for our confirmation, how do you proceed with the followings?
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   REVIEW CHECKLIST:
>
>   (Points to be checked more widely on or before final review)
>
>   o  Check the correct final disposition for lost message data (3.4)
>
>   o  Editorial:  IANA action for new message headers (section 9.1)?
>      Handling of internal document references.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Personally, I think 3.4 is one of difficult issues to deal with.
>But, the description here can be acceptable.
>
>The Minneapolis minutes for this I-D.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    He presented the status of the documents. There were a few discussions
>    in ML in February and they are already considered in next version.
>    Except for that, there were no comments in the last weeks, thus it seems
>    ready for final publication. The WG did no objection to it.
>
>    Larry Masinter suggests that "content-type" should always be included
>    in "content-alternative" header. The editor replied that this is only
>    needed when a non-TIFF file format is being used. In ML, this issue
>    will be resolved.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Regarding the unsolved issues there, it seems that -05 covers everything.
>
>As a co-chair, I would like to know your final decision.
>Last call or something.....
>
>Regards,
>--
>Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
>E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp

------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Klyne                    Baltimore Technologies
Strategic Research              Content Security Group
<Graham.Klyne@Baltimore.com>    <http://www.mimesweeper.com>
                                 <http://www.baltimore.com>
------------------------------------------------------------



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From: "Toyoda, Kiyoshi" <ktoyoda@rdmg.mgcs.mei.co.jp>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:25:07 +0900
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Subject: RFC2305 Implementation Reports
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----------------------0462118011692055
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Toyoda, Kiyoshi wrote:
>
>I made the draft of "RFC2305 Implementation Reports" and 
>"Status of references in draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-03.txt"
>I attached files of the draft and status of references.
>Please comment about them.
>
>Maeda-san, would you inform CANON's implementation?
>

I revised the draft of "RFC2305 Implementation Reports".
It includes the CANON's implementation.
Please find attached file and check it.

Maeda-san, Thank you for your information.

Kiyoshi Toyoda

----------------------0462118011692055
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----------------------0462118011692055--


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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Timely Completion for Internet Messaging Services
	Author(s)	: G. Klyne, D. Crocker
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-03.txt
	Pages		: 38
	Date		: 20-Jun-01
	
This proposal describes a way to request timely completion for
Internet email, for services such as facsimile and voice messaging.

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From: "Toyoda, Kiyoshi" <ktoyoda@rdmg.mgcs.mei.co.jp>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:27:35 +0900
To: ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: ESMTP Content Negotiation
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This is multipart message.

----------------------5150807619364697
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Folks,

Mr. Crocker and I made a draft "SMTP Service Extension for Content 
Negotiation of Internet Fax".  It is intended to be referred from the 
section of "FFPIM" draft below. 


> 2.1. ESMTP-based content negotiation
>     
>    SMTP servers that are able to report capabilities of the
>     addresses (mailboxes) which they support MAY use the ESMTP
>     "CONNEG" option.  This allows them to report capabilities of
>     the receiving station as part of the ESMTP RCTP-TO
>     interaction.
>          
>          [[[ This section is intended to assist in the operatio
>          of "direct" FFPIM interactions.  We need to develop
>          specifications for the ESMTP "CONNEG" option.  /editor
>          ]]]


Please check attached file and comment.


Kiyoshi Toyoda

----------------------5150807619364697
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	name="draft-ietf-esmtp-conneg-01.txt"
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----------------------5150807619364697--


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Folks,

This is a Working Group Last Call notice for
draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-05.txt.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
         Content Negotiation for Internet Messaging Services
             <draft-ietf-fax-content-negotiation-05.txt>

<snip>

Abstract

  This memo describes a content negotiation mechanism for facsimile,
  voice and other messaging services that use Internet email.

  Services such as facsimile and voice messaging need to cope with
  new message content formats, yet need to ensure that the content of
  any given message is renderable by the receiving agent.  The
  mechanism described here aims to meet these needs in a fashion that
  is fully compatible with the current behaviour and expectations of
  Internet email.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

The WG Last Call period is 2 weeks. It closes on July 7.
If you have "last comments", please send them to our ML by July 7.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura
IETF FAX WG co-chair


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Dear Ned,
Dear Patrik,
Dear IETF secretary,

I am Hiroshi Tamura, a co-chair of IETF FAX WG.

The Internet Fax Working Group requests IESG approval for publication of 
the following document, with the specified status. 

....................................................................

A Simple Mode of Facsimile Using Internet Mail
  draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-03.txt

Status: Draft Standard

Technical Summary
  This specification provides for "simple mode" carriage of facsimile
  data over the Internet. 
  The specification employs standard protocols and file formats such 
  as TCP/IP, Internet mail protocols, MIME, and TIFF for Facsimile.  
  It can send images not only to other Internet-aware facsimile devices 
  but also to Internet-native systems, such as PCs with common email 
  readers which can handle MIME mail and TIFF for Facsimile data.  
  The specification facilitates communication among existing facsimile 
  devices, Internet mail agents, and the gateways which connect them.


There are only changes to make some items non-normative from RFC 2305.
Also, during the WG Last Call period, there were no comments.
It sucessfully finished. The related interworking report is attached
to this mail. Also, the reference report is attached.

The I-D has a dependency issue, especially for DSN(RFC1894).
However, as we confirmed and Ned agreed at Minneapolis meeting,
we are suggested to do WG Last Call and to request it as Draft Standard.

Here is the quotation of our minutes at Minneapolis.

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  4.1 Service (Simple mode) 
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  There is one I-D. The current status was introduced.
  - draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-03.txt (Obsoleting RFC 2305)
  It defines simple mode internet fax.

  -02 was expired. -03 is completely the same as -02. There are three
  dependencies. They are DSN, TIFF-FX and Addressing. TIFF-FX and
  Addressing are FAX-WG issues and can be solved soon within our WG.
  But, in fact, this I-D is stalled due to the lack of DSN "Draft
  Standard" status. Unfortunately, there is no progess about the DSN
  status. It was decided to go anyhow for the WG last-call (AD agrees)
  and submit the document for approval. Publication could not happen
  until dependencies are resolved, but this is expected to happen soon.

....................................................................

Best Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura
IETF FAX WG co-chair

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RFC2305 IMPLEMENTATION REPORT

An Interoperability testing event for RFC2305 "FaxConnect 1" was
held on December 1-2, 1998 in San Jose and "FaxConnect 2" was held 
on May 18-19, 1999 in San Jose, California and simultaneously on 
May 20-21 in Tokyo, Japan by Internet Mail Consortium (IMC). Internet 
Fax Study Association helped to organize the Tokyo side event. 
This report describes the summary of Fax Connect 1 and 2$B!!(BFinal Report.
Please see 
http://www.imc.org/fc1-final.html
for more detail information of Fax Connect 1. 
and see
http://www.imc.org/fc2-final.html
for more detail information of Fax Connect 2. 

The following independently implemented and jointly tested RFC2305
at Fax Connect 1.

Canon 
Cisco Systems 
5th Generation Messaging 
Genoa 
Intel 
Interstar Technologies  iReady 
KDD
Matsushita 
Metasoft 
Natural MicroSystems 
NetCentric  
Open Port Technology 
Optus Software 
Ricoh 
WIDE Project 
Xerox 

The following independently implemented and jointly tested RFC2305
at Fax Connect 2.

A.I. Soft 
5th Generation Messaging 
Genoa 
Interstar Technologies 
iReady 
Komatsu 
Matsushita Graphic Communication Systems Inc.
Megasoft 
NTT 
Toyocom 
V-Internet 
WIDE Project 
Xerox 

Many of the companies conducted tests at both sites. In some cases, the company
did single site testing in either Tokyo or San Jose. The unique test environmet
permitted local testing at both sites as well as transcontinental testing. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
RFC2305 INTEROPERABILITY TESTING SUMMARY
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Packaging (MIME)
Support for basic MIME is solid, although almost all testing involved 
image/tiff, rather than multipart structures. However, several vendors 
indicated support for simple use of the multipart content-type. Support 
for complex, nested MIME structures, such as a multipart within a multipart, 
is frequently absent from MIME implementations. Few RFC 2305 implementations 
attempt such support at this stage. 

Content (TIFF)
Simple mode requires the use of the very restricted, minimum set TIFF-FX 
profile "S", although it allows use of other profiles when the capabilities 
of the recipient are known. The implementors now understand the difference 
between the "S" profile and the commonly used "F" profile. Most testing was 
based on the S profile, but there were also several F profile implementations. 

Addressing
Please see "Implementation Report for Minimal FAX address format in Internet 
Mail RFC2304 " submitted to IESG as "Protocol Implementation Reports". 

This report describes the implementation and interoperability testing
of RFC2304 "Minimal FAX address format in Internet Mail". The test was 
held on the 28th Jun in Japan.

The following independently implemented and jointly tested RFC2304.

  Matsushita Graphic Communication Systems Inc.
  TOYOCOM Inc.

Transport
SMTP and POP worked well. There were some differences in interworking results that occurred when transcontinental testing was conducted. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
RFC2305 IMPLEMENTATIONS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 implementations as participants of Fax Connect are below. 

Name of implementation: MGCS Internet Fax
Organization:           Matsushita Graphic Communication Systems Inc.
Platforms:              original appliance
Location of code:       proprietary to MGCS Inc.
Contact:                Kiyoshi Toyoda <ktoyoda@rdmg.mgcs.mei.co.jp>
Implemented Features:   Full features of RFC2305

Name of implementation: RICOH Internet Fax
Organization:           Ricoh Company, Ltd.
Platforms:              orignal appliance
Location of code:       proprietary to Ricoh Co, Ltd.
Contact:                Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
Implemented Features:   Full features of RFC2305

Name of implementation: Canon iR Series Internet Fax
Organization:           CANON Inc.
Platforms:              original appliance
Location of code:       proprietary to CANON Inc.
Contact:                Nobuyuki TONEGAWA <tonegawa.nobuyuki@canon.co.jp>
Implemented Features:   Full features of RFC2305

Name of implementation: TOYOCOM OnRamp and OffRamp Gateway
Organization:           TOYOCOM Inc.
Platforms:              Windows NT  Server ver.4.0
Location of code:       proprietary to TOYOCOM Inc.
Contact:                Katsuhiko Mimura <mimu@toyocom.co.jp>
Implemented Features:   Full features of RFC2304



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Status of References in draft-ietf-fax-service-v2-03.txt

Open issue
RFC1894, RFC2301, RFC2302, RFC2303 and RFC2304 are Proposed Standard level.  

The IESG has received a request from the Internet Fax Working Group in last 
November to consider File Format for Internet Fax 
<draft-ietf-fax-tiff-fx-09.tx> as a Draft Standard, obsoleting RFC 2301.

The IESG has received a request from the Internet Fax Working Group in April
to consider Minimal GSTN address format in Internet Mail
<draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-03.txt> as a Draft Standard, replacing RFC2303, 
currently a Proposed Standard.

The IESG has received a request from the Internet Fax Working Group  in Aprl
to consider Minimal FAX address format in Internet Mail
<draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-03.txt> as a Draft Standard, replacing RFC2304, 
a Proposed Standard.


   [1]  Postel, J., "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol", STD 10, RFC
        821, August 1982.
   Status: Standard
           RFC2821 obsoletes RFC821 in May. RFC2821 is Proposed Standard  
           level.

   [2]  Crocker, D., "Standard for the Format of ARPA Internet
        Text Messages", STD 11, RFC 822, August l982.
   Status: Standard
           RFC2822 obsoletes RFC822 in May. RFC2822 is Proposed Standard  
           level.

   [3]  Braden, R., 1123 "Requirements for Internet hosts -
        application and support", RFC 1123, October 1989.
   Status: Standard

   [4]  Borenstein, N., and N. Freed, " Multipurpose Internet
        Mail Extensions (MIME) Part Five:  Conformance Criteria and
        Examples ", RFC 2049, November 1996.
   Status: Draft Standard

   [5]  Parsons, G., and J. Rafferty, "Tag Image File Format
        (TIFF) -- F Profile for Facsimile", RFC 2306, March 1998.
   Non normative reference

   [6]  McIntyre, L., Zilles, S., Buckley, R., Venable, D.,
        Parsons, G., and J. Rafferty, "File Format for Internet Fax",
        RFC 2301, March 1998.
   Status: Proposed Standard

   [7]  Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
        Requirement Levels", RFC 2119, March 1997.
   Non normative reference

   [8]  ITU-T (CCITT), "Standardization of Group 3 facsimile
        apparatus for document transmission", ITU-T (CCITT),
        Recommendation T.4.
   Non normative reference

   [9]  Myers, J., and M. Rose, "Post Office Protocol - Version
        3", STD 53, RFC 1939, May 1996.
   Status: Standard

   [10] Allocchio, C., "Minimal PSTN address format for Internet
        mail", RFC 2303, March 1998.
   Status: Proposed Standard

   [11] Allocchio, C., "Minimal fax address format for Internet
        mail", RFC 2304, March 1998.
   Status: Proposed Standard

   [12] Callas, J., Donnerhacke, L., Finney, H., and Thayer, R.,
        "OpenPGP Message Format", RFC 2440, November 1998
   Non normative reference

   [13] Moore, K., and G. Vaudreuil, "An Extensible Message
        Format for Delivery Status Notifications", RFC 1894, January
        1996.
   Status: Proposed Standard

   [14] Freed, N., and N. Borenstein, "Multipurpose Internet
        Mail Extensions (MIME) Part Two: Media Types", RFC 2046,
        November 1996.
   Status: Draft Standard

   [15] Moore, K., "MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) Part
        Three: Message Header Extensions for Non-ASCII Text", RFC 2047,
        November 1996.
   Status: Draft Standard

   [16] Kent, S. and Atkinson, R., "Security Architecture for the
        Internet Protocol", RFC 2401, November 1998.
   Non normative reference

   [17] Parsons, G. and Rafferty, J., "Tag Image File Format
        (TIFF) -- image/TIFF: MIME Sub-type Registration", RFC 2302,
        March 1998.
   Status: Proposed Standard

   [18] Hoffman, P., "SMTP Service Extension for Secure SMTP over TLS",
        RFC 2487, January 1999.
   Non normative reference

   [19] Dusse, S., Hoffman, P., Ramsdell, B., Lundblade, L., and
        L. Repka, "S/MIME Version 2 Message Specification", RFC 2311,
        March 1998.
   Non normative reference


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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Sat Jun 23 02:13:35 2001
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What about this one?

At Minneapolis meeting, we agreed to go to the final stage.
In fact, there are few issues in TODO in Appendix A.
But, it seems that there are some items to be considered
in REVIEW CHECKLIST.

At first, I would like to hear the editors' comment.

Folks,
any comments are welcome.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp




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Toyoda-san,

I recommend to submit it as I-D formally.
No problems for submission to me.
I believe Claudio has no problems

Please do it as -00.

> Mr. Crocker and I made a draft "SMTP Service Extension for Content 
> Negotiation of Internet Fax".  It is intended to be referred from the 
> section of "FFPIM" draft below. 

<snip>

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Sat Jun 23 05:18:58 2001
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To: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
From: Graham Klyne <GK-lists@ninebynine.org>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-timely-delivery-03.txt
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Tamura-san,

Thank you for raising this.  (I should first apologize for taking far 
longer to get the draft to this state than I originally said I would.)

There is one issue I would like to clarify before requesting a last call, 
namely how a congested relay can avoid exacerbating the congestion condition.

The basic idea I am contemplating is that if a relay is congested, it can 
immediately reject a message by an error response to a MAIL FROM command 
with a TIMELY option specified.  (Otherwise, a new message -- especially if 
retries are being attempted -- may simply exacerbate the congestion.)

So I am asking:

Q: does this approach seem reasonable?

Q: assuming it's reasonable, what error code to use?  (a) an existing, or 
(b) a new code?  If (a) then the choices would seem to be:
   450 Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable
   451 Requested action aborted: local error in processing
   452 Requested action not taken: insufficient system storage

(I think 450 is inappropriate, as it's specific to a mailbox.)

My preference would be to define a new code, something like:
   453 Message not accepted: relay busy
RFC2821 seems to say this would be OK. But, lacking a registry for SMTP 
error codes, is this likely to prove problematic, procedurally?

I think this is a simple matter, but I would like some input from those who 
better understand the procedural realities of developing email standards.

...

Also, a separate matter as a point of information.  I am liaising with Greg 
Vaudreil, who is working on a revised versions of the extended SMTP status 
codes specification, about the new status codes introduced by this draft.

...

Finally, concerning the REVIEW CHECKLIST:  there are many items here to 
which I would draw people's attention, but in the absence of any further 
comment on these items I don't think the document needs further 
change.  The CHECKLIST is intended to draw attention to some areas where 
more careful review might be in order.

#g
--


At 02:41 PM 6/23/01 +0900, Hiroshi Tamura wrote:

>What about this one?
>
>At Minneapolis meeting, we agreed to go to the final stage.
>In fact, there are few issues in TODO in Appendix A.
>But, it seems that there are some items to be considered
>in REVIEW CHECKLIST.
>
>At first, I would like to hear the editors' comment.
>
>Folks,
>any comments are welcome.
>
>Regards,
>--
>Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
>E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp

------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Klyne                    Baltimore Technologies
Strategic Research              Content Security Group
<Graham.Klyne@Baltimore.com>    <http://www.mimesweeper.com>
                                 <http://www.baltimore.com>
------------------------------------------------------------



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Folks,

For your information,

Regarding T.37, ITU-T SG16 meeting was held from May 28 to June 8.
Our correspondance was submitted there and discussed.
They agreed to send a response as a new letter.

It mentions Draft Standard consideration issue and
reference to implementer's guide.

ITU-T SG16 TSB will send it here formally sooner or later.
Please wait.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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Graham,
You are also working on Saturday :-<

> The basic idea I am contemplating is that if a relay is congested, it can 
> immediately reject a message by an error response to a MAIL FROM command 
> with a TIMELY option specified.  (Otherwise, a new message -- especially if 
> retries are being attempted -- may simply exacerbate the congestion.)
> 
> So I am asking:
> 
> Q: does this approach seem reasonable?

It's ok for me.

> Q: assuming it's reasonable, what error code to use?  (a) an existing, or 
> (b) a new code?  If (a) then the choices would seem to be:
>    450 Requested mail action not taken: mailbox unavailable
>    451 Requested action aborted: local error in processing
>    452 Requested action not taken: insufficient system storage
> 
> (I think 450 is inappropriate, as it's specific to a mailbox.)

Yes.

> My preference would be to define a new code, something like:
>    453 Message not accepted: relay busy

I think so, too.

> RFC2821 seems to say this would be OK. But, lacking a registry for SMTP 
> error codes, is this likely to prove problematic, procedurally?

I do not know how to register it, either.

> I think this is a simple matter, but I would like some input from those who 
> better understand the procedural realities of developing email standards.

Yes.
Does anybody know it or any good suggestion?

> Also, a separate matter as a point of information.  I am liaising with Greg 
> Vaudreil, who is working on a revised versions of the extended SMTP status 
> codes specification, about the new status codes introduced by this draft.

Could you specify I-D or ML or something?
The people here may be interesting in it.

> Finally, concerning the REVIEW CHECKLIST:  there are many items here to 
> which I would draw people's attention, but in the absence of any further 
> comment on these items I don't think the document needs further 
> change.  The CHECKLIST is intended to draw attention to some areas where 
> more careful review might be in order.

OK, I understand what you intend. I just wanted to confirm it.

# Next my response may be too slow.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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> Toyoda-san,
> 
> I recommend to submit it as I-D formally.
> No problems for submission to me.
> I believe Claudio has no problems

same for me, please submit your draft.
Claudio
> 
> Please do it as -00.
> 
> > Mr. Crocker and I made a draft "SMTP Service Extension for Content 
> > Negotiation of Internet Fax".  It is intended to be referred from the 
> > section of "FFPIM" draft below. 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Regards,
> --
> Hiroshi Tamura, Co-chair of IETF-FAX WG
> E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp
> 
> 


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At 06:58 PM 6/23/01 +0900, Hiroshi Tamura wrote:
> > Also, a separate matter as a point of information.  I am liaising with 
> Greg
> > Vaudreil, who is working on a revised versions of the extended SMTP status
> > codes specification, about the new status codes introduced by this draft.
>
>Could you specify I-D or ML or something?
>The people here may be interesting in it.

Part of the I-D announcement is copied below.

#g
--

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


         Title           : Extensions to Mail System Status Codes
         Author(s)       : G. Vaudreuil
         Filename        : draft-vaudreuil-1983ext-00.txt
         Pages           : 5
         Date            : 21-Jun-01

This document defines an additional set of extended status codes based
on new messaging applications and associated error states since the
creation of the original RFC 1893 document.  These include extended
media conversion codes for fax and voice messaging and results for
message tracking.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vaudreuil-1983ext-00.txt



------------
Graham Klyne
(GK@ACM.ORG)



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Jun 25 20:34:07 2001
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From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
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Subject: MDN: Original-Recipient header
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Hi.

Is anyone aware of a mailer that implements section 2.3 of RFC2298 (MDN)?
It's reproduced below.

-Dan Wing

-----

2.3 The Original-Recipient Header

   Since electronic mail addresses may be rewritten while the message is
   in transit, it is useful for the original recipient address to be
   made available by the delivering MTA.  The delivering MTA may be able
   to obtain this information from the ORCPT parameter of the SMTP RCPT
   TO command, as defined in RFC 1891 [8].  If this information is
   available, the delivering MTA SHOULD insert an Original-Recipient
   header at the beginning of the message (along with the Return-Path
   header).  The delivering MTA MAY delete any other Original-Recipient
   headers that occur in the message.  The syntax of this header, using



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Mon Jun 25 21:23:27 2001
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:51:55 +0900
To: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
Cc: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>, ietf-fax@imc.org
Subject: Re: ESMTP Content Negotiation
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Claudio Allocchio wrote:
>
>> Toyoda-san,
>> 
>> I recommend to submit it as I-D formally.
>> No problems for submission to me.
>> I believe Claudio has no problems
>
>same for me, please submit your draft.
>Claudio
>> 
>> Please do it as -00.

Thank you.
I submitted "DRAFT-IETF-FAX-ESMTP-CONNEG-00.txt" as I-D yesterday.

Kiyoshi Toyoda


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On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 04:47:10PM -0700, Dan Wing wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Is anyone aware of a mailer that implements section 2.3 of RFC2298 (MDN)?
> It's reproduced below.

  I recall having had a look into the MDN specs, and did consider it
  to be purely MUA thing.  (And thus I essentially ignored it..)


  I almost said: "ZMailer for couple of years" -- but alas, not quite.
  ZMailer puts  "X-ORCPT:" header into local delivery.
  (And puts things into environment variables for deliveries into pipes)
  Adding the official  "Original-Recipient:"  header is trivial ... done.

  To think of it, the DSN specs carries also  ENVID=  parameter, and ZMailer
  presents that (if present) in form of  "X-ENVID:"  header.

  Analogous presentation form would then be:  "Original-Envelope-Id:" ?
  (To take a model from DSN report formats.)


  Reading further, section 5 of 2298 refers to RFC 1891 for ORCPT= parameter,
  however at RFC 1892 section 6.2.1 subsection (d) says:

    If no ORCPT parameter was present in the RCPT command when the
    message was received, an ORCPT parameter MAY be added to the RCPT
    command when the message is relayed.  If an ORCPT parameter is added
    by the relaying MTA, it MUST contain the recipient address from the
    RCPT command used when the message was received by that MTA.

  and indeed that is what ZMailer is doing...

  .. as a result, major relays running ZMailer detect sites with bad
  firewalls, which said firewalls go mug the through-going SMTP protocol
  containing  ORCPT=  parameter data.    New  sendmail can do it too,
  but as it doesn't do that "MAY be added" part, it depends on rare
  UAs to issue them...

> -Dan Wing

/Matti Aarnio

> -----
> 
> 2.3 The Original-Recipient Header
> 
>    Since electronic mail addresses may be rewritten while the message is
>    in transit, it is useful for the original recipient address to be
>    made available by the delivering MTA.  The delivering MTA may be able
>    to obtain this information from the ORCPT parameter of the SMTP RCPT
>    TO command, as defined in RFC 1891 [8].  If this information is
>    available, the delivering MTA SHOULD insert an Original-Recipient
>    header at the beginning of the message (along with the Return-Path
>    header).  The delivering MTA MAY delete any other Original-Recipient
>    headers that occur in the message.  The syntax of this header, using


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Tue Jun 26 12:36:35 2001
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From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
To: "Matti Aarnio" <mea@nic.funet.fi>
Cc: <notifications@cs.utk.edu>, "IETF Internet Fax WG" <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: MDN: Original-Recipient header
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:54:59 -0700
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> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 04:47:10PM -0700, Dan Wing wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > Is anyone aware of a mailer that implements section 2.3 of RFC2298 (MDN)?
> > It's reproduced below.
>
>   I recall having had a look into the MDN specs, and did consider it
>   to be purely MUA thing.  (And thus I essentially ignored it..)
>
>
>   I almost said: "ZMailer for couple of years" -- but alas, not quite.
>   ZMailer puts  "X-ORCPT:" header into local delivery.
>   (And puts things into environment variables for deliveries into pipes)
>   Adding the official  "Original-Recipient:"  header is trivial ... done.

That was easy!  :-)

>   To think of it, the DSN specs carries also  ENVID=  parameter, and ZMailer
>   presents that (if present) in form of  "X-ENVID:"  header.
>
>   Analogous presentation form would then be:  "Original-Envelope-Id:" ?
>   (To take a model from DSN report formats.)
>
>
>   Reading further, section 5 of 2298 refers to RFC 1891 for ORCPT=
> parameter,
>   however at RFC 1892 section 6.2.1 subsection (d) says:
>
>     If no ORCPT parameter was present in the RCPT command when the
>     message was received, an ORCPT parameter MAY be added to the RCPT
>     command when the message is relayed.  If an ORCPT parameter is added
>     by the relaying MTA, it MUST contain the recipient address from the
>     RCPT command used when the message was received by that MTA.
>
>   and indeed that is what ZMailer is doing...
>
>   .. as a result, major relays running ZMailer detect sites with bad
>   firewalls, which said firewalls go mug the through-going SMTP protocol
>   containing  ORCPT=  parameter data.    New  sendmail can do it too,
>   but as it doesn't do that "MAY be added" part, it depends on rare
>   UAs to issue them...

FYI, the offending Cisco product that used to do that a few years ago has long
since been changed to now simply break ESMTP on purpose instead of allowing
EHLO but breaking several SMTP Service Extensions as part of its firewall
'feature'.  Obviously sub-optimal, but that's life ..

-d


> > -Dan Wing
>
> /Matti Aarnio
>
> > -----
> >
> > 2.3 The Original-Recipient Header
> >
> >    Since electronic mail addresses may be rewritten while the message is
> >    in transit, it is useful for the original recipient address to be
> >    made available by the delivering MTA.  The delivering MTA may be able
> >    to obtain this information from the ORCPT parameter of the SMTP RCPT
> >    TO command, as defined in RFC 1891 [8].  If this information is
> >    available, the delivering MTA SHOULD insert an Original-Recipient
> >    header at the beginning of the message (along with the Return-Path
> >    header).  The delivering MTA MAY delete any other Original-Recipient
> >    headers that occur in the message.  The syntax of this header, using



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun 27 01:58:09 2001
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: ned.freed@mrochek.com
Subject: Re: MDN: Original-Recipient header
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:47:10 -0700"
 <EOEBIJPEADOODFNEJPEGMEJNDMAA.dwing@cisco.com>
To: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
Cc: notifications@cs.utk.edu, IETF Internet Fax WG <ietf-fax@imc.org>
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> Is anyone aware of a mailer that implements section 2.3 of RFC2298 (MDN)?
> It's reproduced below.

PMDF does.

				Ned

> 2.3 The Original-Recipient Header

>    Since electronic mail addresses may be rewritten while the message is
>    in transit, it is useful for the original recipient address to be
>    made available by the delivering MTA.  The delivering MTA may be able
>    to obtain this information from the ORCPT parameter of the SMTP RCPT
>    TO command, as defined in RFC 1891 [8].  If this information is
>    available, the delivering MTA SHOULD insert an Original-Recipient
>    header at the beginning of the message (along with the Return-Path
>    header).  The delivering MTA MAY delete any other Original-Recipient
>    headers that occur in the message.  The syntax of this header, using



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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: ned.freed@mrochek.com
Subject: Re: MDN: Original-Recipient header
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:50:41 +0300"
 <20010626175041.C15960@nic.funet.fi>
To: Matti Aarnio <mea@nic.funet.fi>
Cc: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>, notifications@cs.utk.edu,
        IETF Internet Fax WG <ietf-fax@imc.org>
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>   To think of it, the DSN specs carries also  ENVID=  parameter, and ZMailer
>   presents that (if present) in form of  "X-ENVID:"  header.

>   Analogous presentation form would then be:  "Original-Envelope-Id:" ?
>   (To take a model from DSN report formats.)

Seems to me like envelope-id would be more natural. There is, after all, only
one envelope id, whereas there's both an original and final recipient address.

				Ned


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: SMTP Service Extension for Content Negotiation of 
                          Internet Fax
	Author(s)	: K. Toyoda, D. Crocker
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-esmtp-conneg-00.txt
	Pages		: 
	Date		: 26-Jun-01
	
This document defines a content negotiation SMTP
service extension [ESMTP1, ESMTP2] whereby an SMTP
client may request information about content
capabilities of the target device or system that is
serviced by an SMTP server.  The SMTP server may report
the target's content capabilities back to the client.
This process emulates a classic facsimile start-of-
session capabilities negotiation.  This service
extension is primarily intended for 'direct' SMTP
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This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Protocol for Terminal Mode
	Author(s)	: T. Maeda
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-protocol-00.txt
	Pages		: 5
	Date		: 26-Jun-01
	
This draft describes protocol of Terminal Mode which was proposed 
in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva.  The Terminal 
Mode supports the transfer of image data, capabilities exchange and 
confirmation for Store and Forward internet fax terminals having 
limited memory and small CPU power.  Terminal Mode also supports all 
features of Group 3 facsimile on the Internet using T.30 signals in 
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Goals for Terminal Mode
	Author(s)	: T. Maeda
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
	Pages		: 5
	Date		: 26-Jun-01
	
This draft describes goals of Terminal Mode which was proposed 
in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva.  The Terminal 
Mode supports the transfer of image data, capabilities exchange and 
confirmation for Store and Forward internet fax terminals having 
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features of Group 3 facsimile on the Internet using T.30 signals in 
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Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:02:43 -0400
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Fax Processing Status
	Author(s)	: T. Maeda
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt
	Pages		: 4
	Date		: 26-Jun-01
	
This proposal describes a fax processing status which was requested 
in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva, for Full Mode.  
The notification of success/failure of document processing and page 
by page status from the receiver is very important feature for the 
internet fax.

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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun 27 11:18:03 2001
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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:41:18 +0100
To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
cc: ned.freed@mrochek.com, Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>,
        Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?= <paf@cisco.com>, scoya@ietf.org,
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From: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
Subject: Re: update of draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-03.txt (after IESG review)
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Hi all!
 
here is the updated I-D, in order to include the requested IESG changes
(see below).
 
Please publish the new I-D, and then I think IESG and RFC Editor can proceed.
 
Regards,
Claudio Allocchio
 
PS: see also draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-04.txt updated I-D
 
> > The IESG just completed its review of these two documents, and only
> > two issues arose:
> 
> > (1) The IESG would like to see some text indicating what, if anything, changed
> >     in the revised version of these documents. This doesn't have to be
> >     chapter and verse; simply indicating what clarifications were done would
> >     suffice.
> 
> > (2) The IANA notes that there are some isi.edu email addresses in the
> >     document. These should be changed to iana.org.
> 
> > Once these issues are dealt with we are done!
--8625-1103527590-993660078=:538991666
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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun 27 11:18:20 2001
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To: ned.freed@mrochek.com, Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>,
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From: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
Subject: update of draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-03.txt and 
 draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-03.txt
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Ok Ned, 

sorry for the delay (I checked and I definitly missed you e-mail from May).

The I-Ds are updated and submitted, now.

regards,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Claudio Allocchio             G   A   R   R          Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it
                        Project Technical Officer
tel: +39 040 3758523      Italian Academic and       G=Claudio; S=Allocchio;
fax: +39 040 3758565        Research Network         P=garr; A=garr; C=it;

     PGP Key: http://security.fi.infn.it/cgi-bin/spgpk.pl?KeyId=0C5C2A09



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun 27 11:19:14 2001
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From: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
Subject: Re: update of draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-03.txt (after IESG review)
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--5608-1103527590-993659759=:538991666
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Hi all!

here is the updated I-D, in order to include the requested IESG changes
(see below).

Please publish the new I-D, and then I think IESG and RFC Editor can proceed.

Regards,
Claudio Allocchio

PS: see also draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-04.txt updated I-D

> > The IESG just completed its review of these two documents, and only
> > two issues arose:
> 
> > (1) The IESG would like to see some text indicating what, if anything, changed
> >     in the revised version of these documents. This doesn't have to be
> >     chapter and verse; simply indicating what clarifications were done would
> >     suffice.
> 
> > (2) The IANA notes that there are some isi.edu email addresses in the
> >     document. These should be changed to iana.org.
> 
> > Once these issues are dealt with we are done!
> 
--5608-1103527590-993659759=:538991666
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--5608-1103527590-993659759=:538991666--


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun 27 13:24:21 2001
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	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
To: <maeda@crf.canon.fr>
Cc: <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:45:27 -0700
Message-ID: <EOEBIJPEADOODFNEJPEGKEANDNAA.dwing@cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi.

This I-D shows the following:

  2.   MDN extension
  To send fax prosessing status from the receiver, MDN extension field
  is used for results, received page number and error page number.

  MDN extension field:
  Fax-Report: Fax-Results = code
             ; Fax-Pages = received page number
             ; Fax-Errorpage = error page number

What are the valid "codes"?

-d

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03 AM
> To: IETF-Announce:
> Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.
>
> 	Title		: Fax Processing Status
> 	Author(s)	: T. Maeda
> 	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt
> 	Pages		: 4
> 	Date		: 26-Jun-01
>
> This proposal describes a fax processing status which was requested
> in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva, for Full Mode.
> The notification of success/failure of document processing and page
> by page status from the receiver is very important feature for the
> internet fax.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-sta
> tus-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> 	"get draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt".
>
> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>
> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>
> Send a message to:
> 	mailserv@ietf.org.
> In the body type:
> 	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-faxprocessing-status-00.txt".
>
> NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> 	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> 	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> 	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> 	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> 	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> 	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> 	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> 	how to manipulate these messages.
>
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
>



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Wed Jun 27 13:24:24 2001
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	for ietf-fax-bks; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
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	by mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com (Mirapoint)
	with SMTP id AGJ03608;
	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:47:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
To: <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:47:40 -0700
Message-ID: <EOEBIJPEADOODFNEJPEGOEANDNAA.dwing@cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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IPP is more suitable for these goals than SMTP.

-d

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03 AM
> To: IETF-Announce:
> Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.
>
> 	Title		: Goals for Terminal Mode
> 	Author(s)	: T. Maeda
> 	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> 	Pages		: 5
> 	Date		: 26-Jun-01
>
> This draft describes goals of Terminal Mode which was proposed
> in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva.  The Terminal
> Mode supports the transfer of image data, capabilities exchange and
> confirmation for Store and Forward internet fax terminals having
> limited memory and small CPU power.  Terminal Mode also supports all
> features of Group 3 facsimile on the Internet using T.30 signals in
> capability exchange.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goa
> ls-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> 	"get draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
>
> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>
> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>
> Send a message to:
> 	mailserv@ietf.org.
> In the body type:
> 	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
>
> NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> 	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> 	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> 	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> 	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> 	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> 	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> 	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> 	how to manipulate these messages.
>
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
>



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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Minimal FAX address format in Internet Mail
	Author(s)	: C. Allocchio
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-04.txt
	Pages		: 
	Date		: 27-Jun-01
	
This memo describes a simple method of encoding GSTN addresses of
facsimile devices in the local-part of Internet email addresses.
As with all Internet mail addresses, the left-hand-side (local- part)
of an address generated according to this specification, is not to be
interpreted except by the MTA that is named on the right-hand-side
(domain).

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
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type "cd internet-drafts" and then
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or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
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In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-faxaddr-v2-04.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
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--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
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Content-Type: text/plain
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ENCODING mime
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--OtherAccess
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	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
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--OtherAccess--

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Minimal GSTN address format in Internet Mail
	Author(s)	: C. Allocchio
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-04.txt
	Pages		: 
	Date		: 27-Jun-01
	
This memo describes a simple method of encoding GSTN addresses 
(commonly called 'telephone numbers') in the local-part of Internet 
email addresses, along with an extension mechanism to allow encoding 
of additional standard attributes needed for email gateways to 
GSTN-based services.
As with all Internet mail addresses, the left-hand-side (local-part)
of an address generated according to this specification, is not to be
interpreted except by an MTA that handles messages for the domain given
in the right-hand-side.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-04.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-04.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
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or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
	mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-04.txt".
	
NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
	how to manipulate these messages.
		
		
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

--NextPart
Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess"

--OtherAccess
Content-Type: Message/External-body;
	access-type="mail-server";
	server="mailserv@ietf.org"

Content-Type: text/plain
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ENCODING mime
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--OtherAccess
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	name="draft-ietf-fax-minaddr-v2-04.txt";
	site="ftp.ietf.org";
	access-type="anon-ftp";
	directory="internet-drafts"

Content-Type: text/plain
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--OtherAccess--

--NextPart--




From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Jun 28 10:11:42 2001
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Spotted a typo:

The last paragraph of section 6.6 should read:

[[[
This means that return path messages should be processed at least as 
expeditiously as the original message.  Hence messages sent using the 
TIMELY option should not be given a higher priority than messages that use 
just the DELIVERBY option.
]]]

#g

------------
Graham Klyne
(GK@ACM.ORG)



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Jun 28 13:54:12 2001
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Hi, Wing-san

Thank you for your comments.

Since Terminal Mode should fall back to Full Mode or Simple Mode,
ESMTP is more preferable than IPP.

Regards.

Toru Maeda


Dan Wing wrote:
> 
> IPP is more suitable for these goals than SMTP.
> 
> -d
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> > Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03 AM
> > To: IETF-Announce:
> > Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.
> >
> >       Title           : Goals for Terminal Mode
> >       Author(s)       : T. Maeda
> >       Filename        : draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> >       Pages           : 5
> >       Date            : 26-Jun-01
> >
> > This draft describes goals of Terminal Mode which was proposed
> > in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva.  The Terminal
> > Mode supports the transfer of image data, capabilities exchange and
> > confirmation for Store and Forward internet fax terminals having
> > limited memory and small CPU power.  Terminal Mode also supports all
> > features of Group 3 facsimile on the Internet using T.30 signals in
> > capability exchange.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goa
> > ls-00.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username
> > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> > type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> >       "get draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
> >
> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> > Send a message to:
> >       mailserv@ietf.org.
> > In the body type:
> >       "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
> >
> > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> >       MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> >       feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> >       command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> >       a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> >       exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> >       "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> >       up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> >       how to manipulate these messages.
> >
> >
> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> > Internet-Draft.
> >

-- 
***********************************
MAEDA TORU
Canon Research Centre France S.A.
***********************************


From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Thu Jun 28 14:20:21 2001
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From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
To: "MAEDA Toru" <maeda@crf.canon.fr>
Cc: <ietf-fax@imc.org>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
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I'm unclear on why the ability to fallback requires the original attempt be in
SMTP.

The goals document also says that "Use of Existing Infrastructure" is a goal.
You do know that the existing infrastructure doesn't permit connecting
directly from Internet hosts to internal SMTP servers?

-d

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MAEDA Toru [mailto:maeda@crf.canon.fr]
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:12 AM
> To: Dan Wing
> Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
>
>
> Hi, Wing-san
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> Since Terminal Mode should fall back to Full Mode or Simple Mode,
> ESMTP is more preferable than IPP.
>
> Regards.
>
> Toru Maeda
>
>
> Dan Wing wrote:
> >
> > IPP is more suitable for these goals than SMTP.
> >
> > -d
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> > > Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03 AM
> > > To: IETF-Announce:
> > > Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> > >
> > >
> > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > > directories.
> > > This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.
> > >
> > >       Title           : Goals for Terminal Mode
> > >       Author(s)       : T. Maeda
> > >       Filename        : draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> > >       Pages           : 5
> > >       Date            : 26-Jun-01
> > >
> > > This draft describes goals of Terminal Mode which was proposed
> > > in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva.  The Terminal
> > > Mode supports the transfer of image data, capabilities exchange and
> > > confirmation for Store and Forward internet fax terminals having
> > > limited memory and small CPU power.  Terminal Mode also supports all
> > > features of Group 3 facsimile on the Internet using T.30 signals in
> > > capability exchange.
> > >
> > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goa
> > > ls-00.txt
> > >
> > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with
> the username
> > > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> > > type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> > >       "get draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
> > >
> > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> > >
> > >
> > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> > >
> > > Send a message to:
> > >       mailserv@ietf.org.
> > > In the body type:
> > >       "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
> > >
> > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> > >       MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> > >       feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> > >       command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> > >       a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant
> mail readers
> > >       exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> > >       "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> > >       up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> > >       how to manipulate these messages.
> > >
> > >
> > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> > > Internet-Draft.
> > >
>
> --
> ***********************************
> MAEDA TORU
> Canon Research Centre France S.A.
> ***********************************



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Jun 29 07:50:23 2001
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Internet FAX Gateway Functions
	Author(s)	: K. Mimura, K. Yokoyama, T. Satoh, C. Kanaide
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-gateway-protocol-05.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 28-Jun-01
	
An Internet FAX Gateway provides functions which translate facsimile
between the general switched telephone network (GSTN) the Internet.
This document provides information on recommended behaviors for 
Internet FAX Gateways Functions for email-based Internet fax. 
In this context, an Offramp means facsimile data transmission to the
GSTN from the Internet, and onramp means facsimile data transmission 
to Internet from the GSTN. This document covers the delivery-process 
of the data among equipment which may include Internet Fax terminals,
PCs on the Internet and FAX terminal on GSTN.

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Content-Type: text/plain
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--NextPart--




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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Guideline of optional services for Internet FAX     
                          Gateway
	Author(s)	: K. Mimura, K. Yokoyama, T. Satoh, 
                          K. Watanabe, C. Kanaide
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-gateway-options-03.txt
	Pages		: 11
	Date		: 28-Jun-01
	
An Internet FAX Gateway provides functions which translate facsimile
between the general switched telephone network (GSTN) the Internet.
This document provides information on guideline of optional services
and some examples for an Internet FAX Gateway classified as an onramp
gateway and an offramp gateway.
So this document does not intend to specify the actions that ifax offramp and onramp Gateways conform to.

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From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Jun 29 08:38:56 2001
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From: "Terry Brookes" <brookes_terry@hotmail.com>
To: ietf-fax@imc.org, dwing@cisco.com
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:47:10 -0400
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Hi Dan,
IPP deployment is minimal whereas SMTP is universal.
If you want to suggest alternative protocols IMPP (or just go with Windows 
Messenger ?) could be a better choice.
Terry


>From: "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com>
>To: <ietf-fax@imc.org>
>Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:47:40 -0700
>
>
>IPP is more suitable for these goals than SMTP.
>
>-d
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org]On
> > Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03 AM
> > To: IETF-Announce:
> > Cc: ietf-fax@imc.org
> > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.
> >
> > 	Title		: Goals for Terminal Mode
> > 	Author(s)	: T. Maeda
> > 	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
> > 	Pages		: 5
> > 	Date		: 26-Jun-01
> >
> > This draft describes goals of Terminal Mode which was proposed
> > in ITU-T SG16 meeting on November 2000 at Geneva.  The Terminal
> > Mode supports the transfer of image data, capabilities exchange and
> > confirmation for Store and Forward internet fax terminals having
> > limited memory and small CPU power.  Terminal Mode also supports all
> > features of Group 3 facsimile on the Internet using T.30 signals in
> > capability exchange.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goa
> > ls-00.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the 
>username
> > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> > type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> > 	"get draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
> >
> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> > Send a message to:
> > 	mailserv@ietf.org.
> > In the body type:
> > 	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt".
> >
> > NOTE:	The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
> > 	MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
> > 	feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
> > 	command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
> > 	a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
> > 	exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
> > 	"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
> > 	up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
> > 	how to manipulate these messages.
> >
> >
> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> > Internet-Draft.
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Fri Jun 29 13:05:59 2001
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From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com>
To: "'ietf-fax@imc.org'" <ietf-fax@imc.org>,
        "'hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com'" <hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com>,
        "'cmanros@cp10.es.xerox.com'" <cmanros@cp10.es.xerox.com>
Subject: FW: IFX> IPP FAX telecon, Fri, June 29, 12-2 PDT (3-5 EDT); Revie
	w IFX spe c
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:17:15 -0700
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Hi folks,

In response to recent comments on IPP versus SMTP for Terminal Mode:

FYI - The IPP Fax spec is shaping up rapidly.  The UIF spec (further
constraints plus some higher resolutions on the base six TIFF-FX
profiles) is also in good shape.

We'd be very please to have any of the Internet Fax folks join us
this afternoon on the IFX spec review telecon.

Cheers,
- Ira McDonald, consulting architect at Sharp and Xerox
  High North Inc

PS - Please note that IPP Fax is an IEEE ISTO PWG work-in-progress
and is NOT being developed under an IETF charter.


-----Original Message-----
From: Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:54 PM
To: IPP FAX DL (E-mail)
Cc: McIntyre, Lloyd; Buckley, Robert R
Subject: IFX> IPP FAX telecon, Fri, June 29, 12-2 PDT (3-5 EDT); Review
IFX spe c


We finished review of the UIF spec on Wednesday, June 27, but didn't start
the IFX spec.

So the participants (Gail, Bill, Ira, John, Tom, Marty Joel, Lloyd McIntyre)
agreed to review the IFX spec tomorrow:

Time:  Friday, June 29, 12-2 PDT (3-5 EDT)
Phone: (712) 271-3647 (Xerox folks: 8*534-6413)
Passcode: 74584#

The IFX spec is at:

<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05-rev.doc>
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05-rev.pdf> 
clean: 
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05.doc>
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05.pdf> 

Tom


-----Original Message-----
From: Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings@cp10.es.xerox.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:19
To: IPP FAX DL (E-mail)
Cc: McIntyre, Lloyd; Buckley, Robert R
Subject: IFX> IPP FAX telecon agenda, Wed, June 27, 10-12 PDT (1-3 EDT)


The IPP FAX telecon that we scheduled at the May 30 telecon is coming up in
a week.  We think that the two IPP FAX document are pretty close to being
finished.  If you haven't read them recently, this would be a good time.  We
are ready for PWG Last Call on them. We will decide at next week's telecon,
whether to start PWG Last Call (ending after the August 1 Toronto meeting)
or wait for the Toronto meeting to decide to start the PWG Last Call.

John has posted and announced the UIF spec yesterday and I'll post and
announce the IFX spec later today or tomorrow at the URLs indicated below.

Here is the dial-in information:

Time:     Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:00 - 12:00 PST (1:00 - 3:00 EST)
Phone:    1-712-271-0568 (8*534-6413 for Xerox folks)
Passcode: 52863#

The agenda is:

1. Review John Pulera's updated UIF spec with changes highlighted: 
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05-edit.doc> 
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05-edit.pdf> 
clean: 
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05.doc> 
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05.pdf> 


2. Review the updated IFX spec (its, not there yet, so I'll post in a day or
so and announce).  

<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05-rev.doc>
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05-rev.pdf> 
clean: 
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05.doc>
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/ifx-spec-05.pdf> 


3. Are the documents ready to start PWG Last Call?

Should we start PWG Last Call on the documents (ending at the end of the
Toronto August 1 meeting) or wait for the Toronto meeting to decide to start
the PWG Last Call?


4. Next meeting and/or telecon

Unless we can't finish reviewing the two documents in the two hours, no
further telecons before the PWG meeting are planned.  The next face-to-face
IPP FAX WG meeting will be in Toronto, Wednesday, August 1, after the PWG
plenary.  


Thanks,
Tom

P.S.  If you want to refresh your memory on what we agreed to at the two
previous telecons (May 30 and June 6) see the mail messages on 6/1/01 and
6/6/01, respectively.

If you want to refresh your memory on what we agreed on in Portland,
April 25, the IPP FAX minutes are available at:

ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/minutes/IPPFAX-0104-minutes.pdf
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/minutes/IPPFAX-0104-minutes.doc



-----Original Message-----
From: John Pulera [mailto:jpulera@minolta-mil.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 19:08
To: IPP-Fax Group
Subject: IFX> UIF spec has been updated: 'uif-spec-05'


I've updated the UIF spec to contain modifications made from the May 30
telecon.

with changes highlighted:
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05-edit.doc
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05-edit.pdf

clean:
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05.doc
ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/QUALDOCS/uif-spec-05.pdf


John Pulera

-----------------------------------------
John Pulera
Minolta Systems Laboratory
111 Innovation Dr. Ste 200
Irvine, CA 92612
jpulera@minolta-mil.com
(949)737-4520 x348


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Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:05:35 +0900 (JST)
From: Hiroshi Tamura <tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp>
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Graham,

Thanks for your information. Also, sorry for my very slow response.

>          Title           : Extensions to Mail System Status Codes
>          Author(s)       : G. Vaudreuil
>          Filename        : draft-vaudreuil-1983ext-00.txt
>          Pages           : 5
>          Date            : 21-Jun-01
> 
> This document defines an additional set of extended status codes based
> on new messaging applications and associated error states since the
> creation of the original RFC 1893 document.  These include extended
> media conversion codes for fax and voice messaging and results for
> message tracking.

Is it being discussed in VPIM WG or just come out?
It addresses the fax related codes.

Regards,
--
Hiroshi Tamura, Ricoh Company, LTD.
E-mail: tamura@toda.ricoh.co.jp



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At 12:17 PM 6/29/2001, McDonald, Ira wrote:
>We'd be very please to have any of the Internet Fax folks join us
>this afternoon on the IFX spec review telecon.

Thanks for the invitation.  Some dialogue could be helpful.

A little more notice, next time, would be quite helpful.

d/


----------
Dave Crocker  <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com>
Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464



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Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:54:44 -0400
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From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@brandenburg.com>
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
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At 01:39 PM 6/28/2001, Dan Wing wrote:
>I'm unclear on why the ability to fallback requires the original attempt be in
>SMTP.


The more the modes have in common, the more code they share.  That means 
that the different modes have less to implement.

There also might be operational impact, such as retaining an SMTP connection.

Retaining interworking with email continues to be a nice ability, too.

It also makes it easier to evaluate the efficacy of each, different 
mode.  The fewer modes the better/simpler.

d/

----------
Dave Crocker  <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com>
Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464



From owner-ietf-fax@mail.imc.org  Sat Jun 30 21:38:04 2001
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To: "Dave Crocker" <dcrocker@brandenburg.com>
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Yes, shared code is good.

"Fax terminal mode" is an end-to-end service which has much more in common
with PSTN fax and T.38 fax than the SMTP model of multiple hops, storing mail,
mailing lists, etc.

IPP has more in common with transmitting documents than SMTP, and I still say
that IPP can provide something more closer approaching the goals of "fax
terminal mode" than SMTP.

For universal messaging, T.37/RFC2305 is the way to go.  For duplication of
exact fax functionality on an IP network, T.38 is the way to go.  While T.38
is more difficult than an IETF text-based protocol, forcing SMTP to
essentially do 'SAML' (everyone by Dave, see RFC821 for a description of SAML)
across multiple hops is hard.

If you want something easier than T.38, IPP exists.  IPP can be enhanced as
needed to support the features necessary to replicate fax.

-d

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Crocker [mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:55 AM
> To: Dan Wing
> Cc: MAEDA Toru; ietf-fax@imc.org
> Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-terminal-mode-goals-00.txt
>
>
> At 01:39 PM 6/28/2001, Dan Wing wrote:
> >I'm unclear on why the ability to fallback requires the original
> attempt be in
> >SMTP.
>
>
> The more the modes have in common, the more code they share.  That means
> that the different modes have less to implement.
>
> There also might be operational impact, such as retaining an SMTP
> connection.
>
> Retaining interworking with email continues to be a nice ability, too.
>
> It also makes it easier to evaluate the efficacy of each, different
> mode.  The fewer modes the better/simpler.
>
> d/
>
> ----------
> Dave Crocker  <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com>
> Brandenburg InternetWorking  <http://www.brandenburg.com>
> tel +1.408.246.8253;  fax +1.408.273.6464
>



