From sarikaya2012@gmail.com  Mon Nov 11 12:26:51 2013
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From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
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Cc: Mohamed Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, Hasnaa Moustafa <hasnaa.moustafa@gmail.com>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
Subject: [fmc] BoF Discussions
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--089e0160a6763c401304eaec8d1b
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Hi all,

We are going to start discussing our upcoming BoF request possibly starting
this week.

It seems like we can have some teleconferences the first one of which will
be announced on the list.

Regards,

Behcet

--089e0160a6763c401304eaec8d1b
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi all,<br><br></div>We are going to s=
tart discussing our upcoming BoF request possibly starting this week.<br><b=
r></div>It seems like we can have some teleconferences the first one of whi=
ch will be announced on the list.<br>
<br></div>Regards,<br><br></div>Behcet<br></div>

--089e0160a6763c401304eaec8d1b--

From sarikaya2012@gmail.com  Tue Nov 12 08:15:56 2013
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Subject: [fmc] Teleconference to discuss BoF proposal
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--089e0158ab5e9fa77e04eafd2925
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Hi all,

We have an upcoming call to discuss the BoF request for our activity. This
call is open to all. Please join if you can.

Details:

Thursday Nov. 14 starting at 9am central time 4pm central Europe time

*AT&T Connect*



USA Toll-Free:

888-858-6182

USA Caller Paid:

646-746-3029

For Other Countries:

 Click Here to View Global Conference Access
Numbers<https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=1136694&accessNumber=6467463029#C2>

*Access Code:*

*6850396*

--089e0158ab5e9fa77e04eafd2925
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi all,<br><br></div>We have an upcoming ca=
ll to discuss the BoF request for our activity. This call is open to all. P=
lease join if you can.<br><br></div>Details:<br><br></div>Thursday Nov. 14 =
starting at 9am central time 4pm central Europe time<br>
<br>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><b><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:red">AT&amp;T Connect</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-size:8pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black"></span></p>


<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style><b><span style=3D"font-size:8pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:red">=A0</span></b></p>

<table class=3D"" style=3D"width:328pt;border-collapse:collapse" border=3D"=
0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"437">
 <tbody><tr style=3D"height:15pt">
  <td style=3D"width:89pt;padding:0in;height:15pt" width=3D"119">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">USA Toll-Free:</span></p>
  </td>
  <td style=3D"width:239pt;padding:0in;height:15pt" width=3D"319">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">888-858-6182</span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr style=3D"height:15pt">
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">USA Caller Paid: </span></p=
>
  </td>
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">646-746-3029</span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr style=3D"height:15pt">
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">For Other Countries:</span>=
</p>
  </td>
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.tele=
conference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=3D1&amp;accessCode=3D1136694&a=
mp;accessNumber=3D6467463029#C2"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-decoratio=
n:none"><span style>=A0</span>Click Here to View Global Conference Access
  Numbers</span></a></span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr style=3D"height:15pt">
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot=
;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Access Code:</span></b><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:black"></span></p>

  </td>
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot=
;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">6850396</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:black"></span></p>

  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr style=3D"height:15pt">
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt"><br></td>
  <td style=3D"padding:0in;height:15pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div>

--089e0158ab5e9fa77e04eafd2925--

From Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de  Tue Nov 19 00:19:15 2013
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Test please ignore!
Thanx
Dirk

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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:=
//www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=
=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Micros=
oft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
	margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:8.0pt;
	font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
	{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
	mso-style-priority:99;
	mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
	font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
	{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	color:#1F497D;}
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	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
@page WordSection1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
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div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Test plea=
se ignore!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanx<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dirk<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></b=
ody></html>=

--_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2C75DC2E19HE113484emea1_--

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Subject: [hiaps] test
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Test - please ignore ;-)
Best Regards
Dirk


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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Test &#8211; ple=
ase ignore ;-)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-autospac=
e:none'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>B=
est Regards<br>Dirk </span><span lang=3DDE style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>=

--_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2C75E6526FHE113484emea1_--

From Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de  Fri Nov 22 01:00:55 2013
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From: <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>
To: <hiaps@ietf.org>, <ietf-action@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:00:43 +0100
Thread-Topic: FMC list renamed to HIAPS
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Subject: [hiaps] FMC list renamed to HIAPS
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Dear all,
As you might have noticed our ML on discussion of Host identification probl=
ems in IPv4 and IPv6 for addresses and shared prefixes assigned to a host i=
s now renamed from FMC to HIAPS: Host Identification and Address/Prefix Sha=
ring issues ... since we think that with this name the goal of the group is=
 represented better.

I hope you agree to the new name and join the discussion on understanding t=
he problem details and pave the way towards solutions.
What do you think? Your comments are very much appreciated!

Old posts on the fmc list are also to be find now in the HIAPS archive: htt=
p://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hiaps/

Thanks to Joel, Matt, and all who have helped!
Best regards
Dirk


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear all,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As </span><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>you </sp=
an><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'>might </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>have noticed our ML on discussion of Host ide=
ntification problems in IPv4 and IPv6 for addresses and shared prefixes ass=
igned to a host is now renamed </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>from FMC </span><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>to HIAP=
S: Host Identification and Address/Prefix Sharing issues</span><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> ..<=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D'>. </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>since we think that with this name the goal of=
 the group is represented better.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I hope you =
agree to the new name and join the discussion on understanding the problem =
details and pave the way towards solutions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'>What do you think? Your comments are very much apprecia=
ted!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Old posts on the fmc list are also to be=
 find now in the HIAPS archive: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive=
/web/hiaps/">http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hiaps/</a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'>Thanks to Joel</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>, Matt,</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> and all w=
ho have helped!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best regar=
ds<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dirk<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></h=
tml>=

--_000_05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A2C75EFC29BHE113484emea1_--

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Hi all,

I would like to ask a simple question and hopefully open up a discussion:
what is host identifier or HOST_ID?

In RFC 6967, it is defined as:

due to address sharing, servers need
   extra information beyond the source IP address to
   differentiate the
   sending host.  We call this information the HOST_ID.

The answer seems to be different for each use case. For prefix sharing, it
is the sending host's IPv6 address. For hosts behind NAT, it is the sending
host's IPv4 address.

What about other cases? For CGNs?

Regards,

Behcet

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<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hi all,<br><br></div>I would like to ask a simple question and hopefully open up a discussion: what is host identifier or HOST_ID? <br><br></div>In RFC 6967, it is defined as:<br><br>
<pre>due to address sharing, servers need
   extra information beyond the source IP address to <br>   differentiate the
   sending host.  We call this information the HOST_ID.</pre>The answer seems to be different for each use case. For prefix sharing, it is the sending host&#39;s IPv6 address. For hosts behind NAT, it is the sending host&#39;s IPv4 address.<br>
<br></div>What about other cases? For CGNs?<br><br></div>Regards,<br><br></div>Behcet<br><div><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div>

--089e013d1a94cfb8b904ec2e2312--

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Subject: Re: [hiaps] Host identifiers
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On Nov 27, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> =
wrote:

> Hi all,
>=20
> I would like to ask a simple question and hopefully open up a =
discussion: what is host identifier or HOST_ID?=20
>=20
> In RFC 6967, it is defined as:
>=20
> due to address sharing, servers need
>    extra information beyond the source IP address to=20
>    differentiate the
>    sending host.  We call this information the HOST_ID.
> The answer seems to be different for each use case. For prefix =
sharing, it is the sending host's IPv6 address. For hosts behind NAT, it =
is the sending host's IPv4 address.

It doesn't need to be the sending host's IP address.  For example, if =
all the hosts behind a NAT are in the 192.168.1/24 subnet, an 8-bit =
HOST_ID would be enough to uniquely identify each host behind the NAT, =
and no purpose in using 32 bits.  That is, the most significant bits of =
the IPv4 address are not necessary.  As another example, with an IPv6 =
client communicating to a NAT64, the most significant bits of the IPv6 =
address are not necessary (because all of the subscribers using an ISP's =
NAT64 belong to that ISP, and have been assigned IPv6 addresses from the =
ISP's own IPv6 prefix), and the least significant 64 bits of the IPv6 =
address are also not necessary (because IPv6 privacy addresses makes =
them pretty useless to identify a particular 'host').  So with NAT64 =
there are really about the same number of bits used to identify a =
'subscriber' as with IPv4 -- which is not much of a surprise.

> What about other cases? For CGNs?

CGN is just a big NAT, so same use-case applies.  But need to think =
about impact of VRFs or VLANs or similar technology behind the CGN, =
which could mean there are multiple "customers" (users) with =
192.168.1/24 subnets, but each connecting to that CGN using different =
VLAN (or VRF).  If those all share the same public IPv4 address, then =
HOST_ID would need to include the VRF/VLAN number (if all that is =
necessary is identifying the 'subscriber') and possibly also the =
subscriber host's IPv4 address (if the need extends to describing the =
host, too).

-d