From rgm@htt-consult.com Tue Apr 5 17:18:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9B13A695A for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:18:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8mTrlA+cYKsb for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086E63A69A0 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2747B62A96 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 00:19:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WL8hi-wLiwUC for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc2400.htt-consult.com (host-78-64-7-227.homerun.telia.com [78.64.7.227]) (Authenticated sender: rgm@htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4338862AD6 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4D9BB180.6010007@htt-consult.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 02:19:12 +0200 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110307 Fedora/3.1.9-0.39.b3pre.fc14 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hiprg@irtf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [hiprg] Adding Identity privacy to HIP DEX X-BeenThere: hiprg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Host Identity Protocol \(HIP\) Research Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 00:18:39 -0000 I faded early this evening and woke up in the middle of the night (hey, I am in Stockholm right now, it is 2am) with perhaps a wild idea that may make some sense. I forfeited Identity privacy and PFS in DEX with moving the HI to ECDH and that ECDH exchange as the extent of the public key crypto in DEX. Here is my thought. The Initiator has TWO ECDH key pairs. One is the HI, the other is an identity privacy key (IPK?). I2 uses the IPK on the 'outside' with the HI encrypted for an 'inner' ECDH protected exchange. The responders HI is still exposed. It is ASSUMED that this is acceptable and that the Initiator has some mechanism to validate this HI to avoid a DH MITM. I don't know if this is worth the effort to flesh out. I have lots of other work to do on HIP-bis, HIP-DEX, core, and some Verizon projects. So I am asking here if others see Identity privacy as important enough to persue it? From rgm@htt-consult.com Tue Apr 5 17:21:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1253A69A6 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:21:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KmVo-CRmz+9G for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013303A69A5 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C2562AC4 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 00:23:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pAPHJ4l3re8U for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc2400.htt-consult.com (host-78-64-7-227.homerun.telia.com [78.64.7.227]) (Authenticated sender: rgm@htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9AED162A9E for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4D9BB251.6010006@htt-consult.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 02:22:41 +0200 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110307 Fedora/3.1.9-0.39.b3pre.fc14 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hiprg@irtf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [hiprg] Using FNV for HIT generation in DEX X-BeenThere: hiprg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Host Identity Protocol \(HIP\) Research Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 00:21:41 -0000 As I mentioned in my presentation, the method I have in DEX for HIT generation is a placeholder until I either determine it is a good method or I find something else that does not raise the 'cost' of DEX. Well at SAAG last week, Eastlake presented FNV: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-eastlake-fnv-00.txt Does anyone have a cost and cpu cost for FNV? Or opinions about it? Or should I use one of the AES hashes out there? From heer@informatik.rwth-aachen.de Wed Apr 6 00:46:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E08C93A6987 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 00:46:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSG+mVZ9d-jj for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 00:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta-2.ms.rz.rwth-aachen.de (mta-2.ms.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.7.73]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815EB3A68D6 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 00:46:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Received: from ironport-out-1.rz.rwth-aachen.de ([134.130.5.40]) by mta-2.ms.rz.RWTH-Aachen.de (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008)) with ESMTP id <0LJ8003H70CK5OD0@mta-2.ms.rz.RWTH-Aachen.de> for hiprg@irtf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:48:20 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.63,309,1299452400"; d="scan'208";a="104751765" Received: from relay-auth-1.ms.rz.rwth-aachen.de (HELO relay-auth-1) ([134.130.7.78]) by ironport-in-1.rz.rwth-aachen.de with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:48:20 +0200 Received: from umic-i4-137-226-45-197.nn.rwth-aachen.de ([unknown] [137.226.45.197]) by relay-auth-1.ms.rz.rwth-aachen.de (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-3.01 64bit (built Dec 9 2008)) with ESMTPA id <0LJ8007R20CKQI30@relay-auth-1.ms.rz.rwth-aachen.de> for hiprg@irtf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:48:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Tobias Heer In-reply-to: <4D9BB180.6010007@htt-consult.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:48:22 +0200 Message-id: References: <4D9BB180.6010007@htt-consult.com> To: Robert Moskowitz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: hiprg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [hiprg] Adding Identity privacy to HIP DEX X-BeenThere: hiprg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Host Identity Protocol \(HIP\) Research Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:46:39 -0000 Hi Robert, Am 06.04.2011 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Moskowitz: > I faded early this evening and woke up in the middle of the night (hey, I am in Stockholm right now, it is 2am) with perhaps a wild idea that may make some sense. > > I forfeited Identity privacy and PFS in DEX with moving the HI to ECDH and that ECDH exchange as the extent of the public key crypto in DEX. > > Here is my thought. The Initiator has TWO ECDH key pairs. One is the HI, the other is an identity privacy key (IPK?). I2 uses the IPK on the 'outside' with the HI encrypted for an 'inner' ECDH protected exchange. The responders HI is still exposed. It is ASSUMED that this is acceptable and that the Initiator has some mechanism to validate this HI to avoid a DH MITM. > > I don't know if this is worth the effort to flesh out. I have lots of other work to do on HIP-bis, HIP-DEX, core, and some Verizon projects. So I am asking here if others see Identity privacy as important enough to persue it? > Is your assumption that the outer DH exchange is not a static one? If it were static, you don't win much because the host can be identified by the outer DH key. If it is not a static DH, the host needs to generate a new DH key pair for each DEX. This can become quite costly. Interesting idea, though! Tobias > > _______________________________________________ > hiprg mailing list > hiprg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hiprg -- Dipl.-Inform. Tobias Heer, Ph.D. Student Chair of Communication and Distributed Systems - comsys RWTH Aachen University, Germany tel: +49 241 80 207 76 web: http://www.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/team/tobias-heer/ blog: http://dtobi.wordpress.com/ card: http://card.ly/dtobi pgp id: AEECA5BF From rgm@htt-consult.com Wed Apr 6 01:01:55 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: hiprg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786AD3A68D9 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 01:01:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l7uVAfvgDG5E for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 01:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1FCF3A68CC for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 01:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7313662AB0; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 08:03:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KEvFK6aWezPD; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 04:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc2400.htt-consult.com (81-226-165-23-o1034.telia.com [81.226.165.23]) (Authenticated sender: rgm@htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 530D362A32; Wed, 6 Apr 2011 04:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4D9C1E2F.8050401@htt-consult.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:02:55 +0200 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110307 Fedora/3.1.9-0.39.b3pre.fc14 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tobias Heer References: <4D9BB180.6010007@htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hiprg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [hiprg] Adding Identity privacy to HIP DEX X-BeenThere: hiprg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: "Host Identity Protocol \(HIP\) Research Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:01:55 -0000 On 04/06/2011 09:48 AM, Tobias Heer wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Am 06.04.2011 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Moskowitz: > >> I faded early this evening and woke up in the middle of the night (hey, I am in Stockholm right now, it is 2am) with perhaps a wild idea that may make some sense. >> >> I forfeited Identity privacy and PFS in DEX with moving the HI to ECDH and that ECDH exchange as the extent of the public key crypto in DEX. >> >> Here is my thought. The Initiator has TWO ECDH key pairs. One is the HI, the other is an identity privacy key (IPK?). I2 uses the IPK on the 'outside' with the HI encrypted for an 'inner' ECDH protected exchange. The responders HI is still exposed. It is ASSUMED that this is acceptable and that the Initiator has some mechanism to validate this HI to avoid a DH MITM. >> >> I don't know if this is worth the effort to flesh out. I have lots of other work to do on HIP-bis, HIP-DEX, core, and some Verizon projects. So I am asking here if others see Identity privacy as important enough to persue it? >> > Is your assumption that the outer DH exchange is not a static one? If it were static, you don't win much because the host can be identified by the outer DH key. If it is not a static DH, the host needs to generate a new DH key pair for each DEX. This can become quite costly. Part of the issues that had my brain tied in knots and mis-firing for a while last night. > Interesting idea, though! From thomas.r.henderson@boeing.com Thu Apr 14 08:55:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hiprg@ietfc.amsl.com Delivered-To: hiprg@ietfc.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A81E06CD for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.304 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.304 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.184, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_NETPROD=0.111, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([208.66.40.236]) by localhost (ietfc.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kh8nyWXytw-Z for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com [130.76.64.48]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC7AE0663 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (blv-av-01.boeing.com [130.247.48.231]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/8.14.4/SMTPOUT) with ESMTP id p3EFtImh007153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id p3EFtEDu001003 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NWHT-02.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwht-02.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.70.248]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id p3EFtCK7000708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NW-10V.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.25.83]) by XCH-NWHT-02.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.70.248]) with mapi; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:12 -0700 From: "Henderson, Thomas R" To: "hiprg@irtf.org" Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:55:11 -0700 Thread-Topic: Call for Nominations: Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) Thread-Index: Acv6j+gjDRQdvVo3Qryw3++STVZmUgALEnZw Message-ID: <7CC566635CFE364D87DC5803D4712A6C4CEE3BB9E6@XCH-NW-10V.nw.nos.boeing.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [hiprg] Call for Nominations: Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) X-BeenThere: hiprg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: "anrp@isoc.org" List-Id: "Host Identity Protocol \(HIP\) Research Group" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:55:25 -0000 FYI -----Original Message----- From: irtf-announce-bounces@irtf.org [mailto:irtf-announce-bounces@irtf.org= ] On Behalf Of Lars Eggert Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:35 AM To: irtf-announce@irtf.org Subject: [IRTF-Announce] Call for Nominations: Applied Networking Research = Prize (ANRP) CALL FOR NOMINATIONS: APPLIED NETWORKING RESEARCH PRIZE (ANRP) *** Apply until May 8, 2011 for the ANR Prize for IETF-81, *** July 24-29, 2011 in Quebec City, Canada! The Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) is awarded for recent results in applied networking research that are relevant for transitioning into shipping Internet products and related standardization efforts. Researchers with relevant, recently published results are encouraged to apply for this prize, which will offer them the opportunity to present and discuss their work with the engineers, network operators, policy makers and scientists that participate in the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) and its research arm, the Internet Research Task Force (IRTF). Third-party nominations for this prize are also encouraged. The goal of the Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) is to recognize the best new ideas in networking, and bring them to the IETF and IRTF especially in cases where they would not otherwise see much exposure or discussion. The Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) consists of: * cash prize of $500 (USD) * invited talk at the IRTF Open Meeting * travel grant to attend the week-long IETF meeting (airfare, hotel, registration, stipend) * recognition at the IETF plenary * invitation to related social activities * potential for additional travel grants to future IETF meetings, based on community feedback The Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) will be awarded three times per year, in conjunction with the three annual IETF meetings. HOW TO APPLY Applicants must nominate a peer-reviewed, recently-published, original journal, conference or workshop paper. Both self nominations (nominating one's own paper) and third-party nominations (nominating someone else's paper) are encouraged. The nominee must be one of the main authors of the nominated paper. The nominated paper should provide a scientific foundation for possible future IETF engineering work or IRTF experimentation, analyze the behavior of Internet protocols in operational deployments or realistic testbeds, make an important contribution to the understanding of Internet scalability, performance, reliability, security or capability, or otherwise be of relevance to ongoing or future IETF or IRTF activities. Applicants must briefly describe how the nominated paper relates to these goals, and are encouraged to describe how presentation of these research results will foster their transition into new IETF engineering or IRTF experimentation, or otherwise seed new activities that will have an impact on the real-world Internet. The goal of the Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) is to foster the transitioning of research results into real-world benefits for the Internet. Therefore, applicants must indicate that they (or the nominee, in case of third-party applications) are available to attend the respective IETF meeting in person and in its entirety. Applications must include: * the name and email address of the nominee * a reference to the published nominated paper * a PDF copy of the nominated paper * a statement that describes how the nominated paper fulfills the goals of the award * a statement that the nominee is available to attend the respective IETF meeting in person and in its entirety * a brief biography or CV of the nominee * optionally, any other supporting information (link to nominee's web site, etc.) *** Applications are submitted by email to anrp@isoc.org. *** SELECTION PROCESS A small selection committee comprised of individuals knowledgeable about the IRTF, IETF and the broader networking research community will evaluate the submissions against these selection criteria. The goal is to select 1-2 submissions for the Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) during each application period. All applicants will be notified by email. IMPORTANT DATES Applications open: April 11, 2011 Applications close: May 8, 2011 Notifications: May 31, 2011 IETF-81 Meeting: July 24-29, 2011 SPONSORS The Applied Networking Research Prize (ANRP) is supported by the Internet Society (ISOC), as part of its Internet Research Award Programme, in coordination with the Internet Research Task Force (IRTF).