From nobody Fri Sep 4 06:23:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B881ACDC8 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 06:23:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7dMuP-vu7fSK for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 06:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A6341A212D for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 06:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297F5D9310; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:23:16 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 0Ku27ubjmiWp; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:23:15 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.103.143] (nb-10510.ethz.ch [82.130.103.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED6C2D930D; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:23:15 +0200 (MEST) To: hops@ietf.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= Message-ID: <55E99B3F.3080806@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:23:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: Brian Trammell Subject: [hops] Wiki on Measurement Platforms and Tools X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:23:21 -0000 Hi all, I've started a page to collect information on measurement platforms and tools: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/irtf/trac/wiki/MeasurementTools Currently, the wiki does not have too much information; I've basically picked a random set of measurement platforms that I know and some measurement tools and have put their names and links to their website on the wiki page. However, the idea is that this page can evolve to something more useful over time. E.g it would also be useful to also provide some additional information about what you can do with a certain platform or tool and in the best case also how this can be used for middlebox measurements. This might even evolve from a simple list to a table at some point, but as I don't know yet how this table will look like, it's solely a list so far! Therefore, please go ahead and add more platforms and tools to the page! Or let me know what you think should be added, and I can perform the changes, if you want! Further any input on which information you'd like to see on this wiki page and how this page should look like in future is very welcome as well! Thanks, Mirja From nobody Fri Sep 4 06:39:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F721B45D1 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 06:39:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2PQ89hKGcp9T for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 06:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD2FC1B45C7 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 06:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9154D9310; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:39:01 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id wHjyGsIzy+89; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:39:01 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.103.143] (nb-10510.ethz.ch [82.130.103.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mirjak) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E80ED930D; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:39:01 +0200 (MEST) To: hops@ietf.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= Message-ID: <55E99EF1.7010300@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:38:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: Brian Trammell Subject: [hops] Questions to ask X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:39:07 -0000 Hi again, at the last meeting, the main interest of the group (for now as a starting point) was to collect and see measurement data. However, collecting random measurement data might not be the most useful thing to do and makes it also often difficult to get access to existing data sets. While the focus of the proposed hops group is clearly on measurement of middlebox impairments, we believe we could even be more specific than that and try to tackle certain questions that you like an answer for or that have been raised lately in some context e.g. other working group. One example is on UDP impairments because there are a bunch of new protocols that have chosen to encapsulate over UDP to enable Internet path traversal (or at least make it more likely to be able to connect). The questions here are: - How likely is it that your traffic will be fully blocked if you use (a new unknown protocol over) UDP? - How likely is it that your UDP traffic is throttled to a certain rate while TCP traffic on the same path is not? There might be even more questions in this context (but these are the ones we are actually currently working on). So now, the purpose of this email is, to collect more of these questions such that we can use this working group as a forum to find a match between people that have a question and people that have the data to (at least partially) answer that question. Therefore please send questions to the list! Or start a discussion on what areas we might want to focus on so that we as a group can try to find the right questions! Or if you have data, tell us which questions you can already answer or at least (at high level) which kind of data you have! Thanks, Brian and Mirja From nobody Fri Sep 4 07:34:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6571B2B36 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 07:34:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LU40_PE2Ra-b for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 07:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2A691B2D9F for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 07:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 620A5504A40EB; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 14:33:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t84EY0JQ018284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:34:00 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.91]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:34:00 +0200 From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mirja_K=FChlewind?= , "hops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hops] Questions to ask Thread-Index: AQHQ5xcXltsbV/4CWUK/d+ju4wQaYp4saoXA Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 14:33:59 +0000 Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847D53C@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <55E99EF1.7010300@tik.ee.ethz.ch> In-Reply-To: <55E99EF1.7010300@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 14:34:07 -0000 I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world measurement= data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network stack itself, e.g= ., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs. Any data on that would really be welcome in TCPM (in particular in the cont= ext of EDO). Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mirja K=FChlewind > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 3:39 PM > To: hops@ietf.org > Cc: Brian Trammell > Subject: [hops] Questions to ask >=20 > Hi again, >=20 > at the last meeting, the main interest of the group (for now as a > starting > point) was to collect and see measurement data. However, collecting > random > measurement data might not be the most useful thing to do and makes it > also > often difficult to get access to existing data sets. While the focus of > the > proposed hops group is clearly on measurement of middlebox impairments, > we > believe we could even be more specific than that and try to tackle > certain > questions that you like an answer for or that have been raised lately > in some > context e.g. other working group. >=20 > One example is on UDP impairments because there are a bunch of new > protocols > that have chosen to encapsulate over UDP to enable Internet path > traversal (or > at least make it more likely to be able to connect). The questions here > are: >=20 > - How likely is it that your traffic will be fully blocked if you use > (a new > unknown protocol over) UDP? >=20 > - How likely is it that your UDP traffic is throttled to a certain rate > while > TCP traffic on the same path is not? >=20 > There might be even more questions in this context (but these are the > ones we > are actually currently working on). >=20 > So now, the purpose of this email is, to collect more of these > questions such > that we can use this working group as a forum to find a match between > people > that have a question and people that have the data to (at least > partially) > answer that question. >=20 > Therefore please send questions to the list! Or start a discussion on > what areas > we might want to focus on so that we as a group can try to find the > right > questions! Or if you have data, tell us which questions you can already > answer > or at least (at high level) which kind of data you have! >=20 > Thanks, > Brian and Mirja >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hops mailing list > hops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hops From nobody Fri Sep 4 09:29:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860551B2F6E for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:29:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h1PP-eU2cXy2 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0794.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::794]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D29891B2DE6 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 09:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.213.19) by BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.255.213.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.256.15; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:29:06 +0000 Received: from BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.3.64]) by BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.3.64]) with mapi id 15.01.0256.013; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:29:06 +0000 From: Christian Kuhtz To: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mirja_K=FChlewind?= , "hops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hops] Questions to ask Thread-Index: AQHQ5xcVSy3TzWRRAk+lPICovuPAkZ4sb0qAgAAfMsA= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:29:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55E99EF1.7010300@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847D53C@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847D53C@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=chkuhtz@microsoft.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR03MB230; H:BLUPR03MB230.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Sep 2015 16:29:06.2055 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR03MB230 Archived-At: Cc: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:29:31 -0000 Michael, > I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world measureme= nt data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network stack itself, e= .g., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs. Can you please elaborate what you're referring to? Are you talking about h= istoric behavior or current state of the art behaviors? If current state of the art, can you be specific on context please? =20 Thanks in advance. Best regards, Christian -----Original Message----- From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scharf, Michael (Mic= hael) Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 7:34 AM To: Mirja K=FChlewind ; hops@ietf.org Cc: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world measurement= data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network stack itself, e.g= ., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs. Any data on that would really be welcome in TCPM (in particular in the cont= ext of EDO). Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mirja K=FChlewind > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 3:39 PM > To: hops@ietf.org > Cc: Brian Trammell > Subject: [hops] Questions to ask >=20 > Hi again, >=20 > at the last meeting, the main interest of the group (for now as a=20 > starting > point) was to collect and see measurement data. However, collecting=20 > random measurement data might not be the most useful thing to do and=20 > makes it also often difficult to get access to existing data sets.=20 > While the focus of the proposed hops group is clearly on measurement=20 > of middlebox impairments, we believe we could even be more specific=20 > than that and try to tackle certain questions that you like an answer=20 > for or that have been raised lately in some context e.g. other working=20 > group. >=20 > One example is on UDP impairments because there are a bunch of new=20 > protocols that have chosen to encapsulate over UDP to enable Internet=20 > path traversal (or at least make it more likely to be able to=20 > connect). The questions here > are: >=20 > - How likely is it that your traffic will be fully blocked if you use=20 > (a new unknown protocol over) UDP? >=20 > - How likely is it that your UDP traffic is throttled to a certain=20 > rate while TCP traffic on the same path is not? >=20 > There might be even more questions in this context (but these are the=20 > ones we are actually currently working on). >=20 > So now, the purpose of this email is, to collect more of these=20 > questions such that we can use this working group as a forum to find a=20 > match between people that have a question and people that have the=20 > data to (at least > partially) > answer that question. >=20 > Therefore please send questions to the list! Or start a discussion on=20 > what areas we might want to focus on so that we as a group can try to=20 > find the right questions! Or if you have data, tell us which questions=20 > you can already answer or at least (at high level) which kind of data=20 > you have! >=20 > Thanks, > Brian and Mirja >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hops mailing list > hops@ietf.org > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.i > etf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhops&data=3D01%7c01%7cchkuhtz%40microsoft > .com%7c3e26e4bef2a84b2b8f1c08d2b535e560%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011 > db47%7c1&sdata=3DjrCFwXC5VUY0RMmxX7CyuB%2f1upswnsZvt%2bm11A1ktvQ%3d _______________________________________________ hops mailing list hops@ietf.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf= .org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhops&data=3D01%7c01%7cchkuhtz%40microsoft.com%7= c3e26e4bef2a84b2b8f1c08d2b535e560%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sd= ata=3DjrCFwXC5VUY0RMmxX7CyuB%2f1upswnsZvt%2bm11A1ktvQ%3d From nobody Fri Sep 4 10:03:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100131B3359 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 10:03:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i4h_CHg8Vtuq for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BCC31B3413 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 10:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 1F7B55B4871D4; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 17:03:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id t84H35e9018381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:03:05 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.91]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:03:05 +0200 From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" To: Christian Kuhtz , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mirja_K=FChlewind?= , "hops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hops] Questions to ask Thread-Index: AQHQ5xcXltsbV/4CWUK/d+ju4wQaYp4saoXAgAADaACAACKF4A== Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 17:03:04 +0000 Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847DC0E@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <55E99EF1.7010300@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D4847D53C@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:11 -0000 Hi Christian, I was referring to the problems TCPM currently faces with extending the opt= ion space. One specific example found so far in prototypes is explained in: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-tcpm-1.pdf Slide 4 This is related to the segmentation/reassembly engines. And in TCPM there i= s currently a lot of uncertainty how TCP offload engines would deal with un= known TCP options, long options, etc. Measurements could perhaps help to re= duce that uncertainty. I am not sure why historic behavior should matter. In TCPM we wonder whethe= r something like EDO could get widely deployed in the *current* Internet, a= nd we lack data for answering that question. Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Kuhtz [mailto:chkuhtz@microsoft.com] > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 6:29 PM > To: Scharf, Michael (Michael); Mirja K=FChlewind; hops@ietf.org > Cc: Brian Trammell > Subject: RE: [hops] Questions to ask >=20 > Michael, >=20 > > I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world > measurement data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network > stack itself, e.g., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs. >=20 > Can you please elaborate what you're referring to? Are you talking > about historic behavior or current state of the art behaviors? >=20 > If current state of the art, can you be specific on context please? >=20 > Thanks in advance. >=20 > Best regards, > Christian >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scharf, Michael > (Michael) > Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 7:34 AM > To: Mirja K=FChlewind ; hops@ietf.org > Cc: Brian Trammell > Subject: Re: [hops] Questions to ask >=20 > I think TCPM would also be interested quite a bit in real-world > measurement data on impairments resulting from the endsystem network > stack itself, e.g., "broken" TCP HW offloading on NICs. >=20 > Any data on that would really be welcome in TCPM (in particular in the > context of EDO). >=20 > Michael >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hops [mailto:hops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mirja > K=FChlewind > > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 3:39 PM > > To: hops@ietf.org > > Cc: Brian Trammell > > Subject: [hops] Questions to ask > > > > Hi again, > > > > at the last meeting, the main interest of the group (for now as a > > starting > > point) was to collect and see measurement data. However, collecting > > random measurement data might not be the most useful thing to do and > > makes it also often difficult to get access to existing data sets. > > While the focus of the proposed hops group is clearly on measurement > > of middlebox impairments, we believe we could even be more specific > > than that and try to tackle certain questions that you like an answer > > for or that have been raised lately in some context e.g. other > working > > group. > > > > One example is on UDP impairments because there are a bunch of new > > protocols that have chosen to encapsulate over UDP to enable Internet > > path traversal (or at least make it more likely to be able to > > connect). The questions here > > are: > > > > - How likely is it that your traffic will be fully blocked if you use > > (a new unknown protocol over) UDP? > > > > - How likely is it that your UDP traffic is throttled to a certain > > rate while TCP traffic on the same path is not? > > > > There might be even more questions in this context (but these are the > > ones we are actually currently working on). > > > > So now, the purpose of this email is, to collect more of these > > questions such that we can use this working group as a forum to find > a > > match between people that have a question and people that have the > > data to (at least > > partially) > > answer that question. > > > > Therefore please send questions to the list! Or start a discussion on > > what areas we might want to focus on so that we as a group can try to > > find the right questions! Or if you have data, tell us which > questions > > you can already answer or at least (at high level) which kind of data > > you have! > > > > Thanks, > > Brian and Mirja > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hops mailing list > > hops@ietf.org > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.i > > > etf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhops&data=3D01%7c01%7cchkuhtz%40microsoft > > > .com%7c3e26e4bef2a84b2b8f1c08d2b535e560%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011 > > db47%7c1&sdata=3DjrCFwXC5VUY0RMmxX7CyuB%2f1upswnsZvt%2bm11A1ktvQ%3d >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hops mailing list > hops@ietf.org > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ie > tf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fhops&data=3D01%7c01%7cchkuhtz%40microsoft.c > om%7c3e26e4bef2a84b2b8f1c08d2b535e560%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db4 > 7%7c1&sdata=3DjrCFwXC5VUY0RMmxX7CyuB%2f1upswnsZvt%2bm11A1ktvQ%3d From nobody Mon Sep 7 03:39:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35DC11B4C6C for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2015 03:39:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.161 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R3AaOp5lkDKt for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2015 03:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tiger.dc.kau.se (smtp.kau.se [193.10.220.38]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2186B1B4C6D for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2015 03:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 12:39:29 +0200 From: Stefan Alfredsson To: hops@ietf.org Message-ID: <20150907103929.GA12945@sa-pc> References: <55E99B3F.3080806@tik.ee.ethz.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <55E99B3F.3080806@tik.ee.ethz.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hops] Wiki on Measurement Platforms and Tools X-BeenThere: hops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Measuring deployability of new transport protocols List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:39:40 -0000 * Quoting Mirja Kühlewind [04 Sep-15 15:23]: > Therefore, please go ahead and add more platforms and tools to the page! Or > let me know what you think should be added, and I can perform the changes, > if you want! Further any input on which information you'd like to see on > this wiki page and how this page should look like in future is very welcome > as well! http://www.bredbandskollen.se/ is a widely used measurement platform in Sweden (and elsewhere), and has quite extensive statistics e.g. for mobile users, see heatmap at http://www.bredbandskollen.se/mobile.php A precursor for bredbandskollen is TPTEST at http://tptest.sourceforge.net/ + http://www.bredbandskollen.se/tptest.php which is a bit aged but could still be considered if you want to collect an extensive list of platforms. (most text is in Swedish, however. Google Translate works quite well, although if you want to perform a measurement or look at statistics you need to access the original page). Cheers, Stefan Alfredsson -- Stefan Alfredsson, PhD Tel: +46 (0) 54 700 1668 Datavetenskap Kontor: 21E-414 (Hus Vanern) Karlstads universitet PGP 0xB19B4B16 SE-651 88 Karlstad http://www.cs.kau.se/stefalfr/