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WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190408-4, 04/08/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] Etherpad forn IETF104 HRPC X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 23:17:21 -0000 Hi, Mallory and I are going to build the notes for the session from the etherpad &c Anyone with anything to add should get it into the pad during the next days if they can. https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-104-hrpc?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue Thanks avri From nobody Wed Apr 17 01:02:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61CA012013A for ; 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charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline This workshop is of course very related to the work of this Research Group (see the discussion in Prague after Farzaneh Badii's talk on how it is difficult to predict the consequences of our actions). --5wrd2fleij257prp Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-Path: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org Received: from hebe.prod-int.prive.th3.nic.fr [10.1.81.80] by b12.tech.prive.nic.fr with IMAP (fetchmail-6.3.26) for (single-drop); Fri, 12 Apr 2019 20:30:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hebe.prod-int.prive.th3.nic.fr (LHLO zimbra.afnic.fr) (10.1.81.80) by zimbra.afnic.fr with LMTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2019 20:30:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.afnic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBDE22D7CBF2 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2019 20:30:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.afnic.fr X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-10 required=6.6 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_FAIL=0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: zimbra.afnic.fr (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:28:41 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf@ietf.org, ietf-announce@ietf.org, "execd@iab.org" Old-From: IAB Chair Old-Subject: IAB Workshop Call for Papers: Design Expectations vs. Deployment Reality Message-ID: <7fe7b482-62c6-f998-e3de-034b0d7bcd90@iab.org> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:28:40 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9E7DE65D0F5719B36B1E31D6" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ietf-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "IETF announcement list. No discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Errors-To: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org Sender: "IETF-Announce" X-PMX-Version: 6.0.0.2142326, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2019.4.12.182116 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIIII, Probability=9%, Report=' HTML_50_70 0.1, HTML_NO_HTTP 0.1, REPLYTO_FROM_DIFF_ADDY 0.1, BODYTEXTH_SIZE_3000_MORE 0, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS 0, DATE_TZ_NA 0, DKIM_SIGNATURE 0, FROM_SAME_AS_TO_DOMAIN 0, URI_WITH_PATH_ONLY 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BAT_BOUNDARY 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY 0, __CTYPE_MULTIPART 0, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT 0, __FROM_DOMAIN_IN_RCPT 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_HTML 0, __HAS_LIST_HEADER 0, __HAS_LIST_HELP 0, __HAS_LIST_ID 0, __HAS_LIST_SUBSCRIBE 0, __HAS_LIST_UNSUBSCRIBE 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_REPLYTO 0, __HTTPS_URI 0, __LEGIT_LIST_HEADER 0, __MIME_HTML 0, __MIME_TEXT_H 0, __MIME_TEXT_H1 0, __MIME_TEXT_H2 0, __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0, __MIME_TEXT_P2 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT 0, __MULTIPLE_URI_TEXT 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END 0, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML 0, __TO_DOMAIN_IN_MSGID 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NAME 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __URI_IN_BODY 0, __URI_NOT_IMG 0, __URI_NO_WWW 0, __URI_NS , __URI_WITH_PATH 0, __USER_AGENT 0, __YOUTUBE_RCVD 0' X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.058191, version=1.2.4 Subject: IAB Workshop Call for Papers: Design Expectations vs. Deployment Reality From: IAB Chair This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E7DE65D0F5719B36B1E31D6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Design Expectations vs. Deployment Reality in Protocol Development A number of protocols have presumed specific deployment models during the development or early elaboration of the protocol.  Actual deployments have sometimes run contrary to these early expectations when economies of scale, DDoS resilience, market consolidation, or other factors have come into play. These factors can result in the deployed reality being highly concentrated. This is a serious issue for the Internet, as concentrated, centralized deployment models present risks to user choice, privacy, and future protocol evolution. On occasion, the differences to expectations were almost immediate, but they also occur after a significant time has passed from the protocol’s initial development. Examples include: Email standards, which presumed many providers running in a largely uncoordinated fashion, but which has seen both significant market consolidation and a need for coordination to defend against spam and other attacks. The coordination and centralized defense mechanisms scale better for large entities, which has fueled additional consolidation. The DNS, which presumed deep hierarchies but has often been deployed in large, flat zones, leading to the nameservers for those zones becoming critical infrastructure. Future developments in DNS may see concentration through the use of globally available common resolver services, which evolve rapidly and can offer better security. Paradoxically, concentration of these queries into few services creates new security and privacy concerns. The Web, which is built on a fundamentally decentralized design, but which is now often delivered with the aid of Content Delivery Networks.  Their services provide scaling, distribution, and Denial of Service prevention in ways that new entrants and smaller systems operators would find difficult to replicate.  While truly small services and truly large ones may operate using only their own infrastructure, many others are left with the only practical choice being the use of a globally available commercial service. Similar developments may happen with future technologies and services. For instance, the growing use of Machine Learning technology presents challenges for distributing effective implementation of a service throughout a pool of many different providers. In RFC 5218 the IAB tackled what made for a successful protocol.  In RFC 8170 , the IAB described how to handle protocol transitions.  This workshop will explore cases where the initial system design assumptions turned out to be wrong, looking for patterns in what caused those assumptions to fail (e.g., concentration due to DDoS resilience) and in how those failures impact the security, privacy, and manageability of the resulting deployments. While the eventual goals might include proposing common remediations for specific cases of confounded protocol expectations, the IAB is currently inviting papers which: * Describe specific cases where systems assumptions during protocol development were confounded by later deployment conditions. * Survey a set of cases to identify common factors in these confounded expectations. * Explore remediations which foster user privacy, security and provider diversity in the face of these changes. Important Dates The workshop will be held June 4-5 in Helsinki, Finland. Position papers must be submitted by May 3rd at the latest. The program committee will review submitted position papers and send an invitation to the workshop to one of the paper authors. Invitations will be distributed by May 9 at the latest. Position Paper Requirements Interested parties must submit a brief document of one to four pages, formatted as HTML, PDF, or plain text. We welcome papers that describe existing work, answers to the questions listed above, new questions, write-ups of deployment experience, lessons-learned from successful or failed attempts, and ideally a vision towards taking deployment considerations better in account when designing new Internet technology. Re-submissions from work presented elsewhere are allowed. Program Committee The following persons are IAB contacts for this workshop: Jari Arkko Stephen Farrell Ted Hardie Christian Huitema Melinda Shore Brian Trammell Position papers should be sent by email to dedr-pc@iab.org. --------------9E7DE65D0F5719B36B1E31D6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Design Expectations vs. Deployment Reality in Protocol Development


A number of protocols have presumed specific deployment models during the development or early elaboration of the protocol.  Actual deployments have sometimes run contrary to these early expectations when economies of scale, DDoS resilience, market consolidation, or other factors have come into play. These factors can result in the deployed reality being highly concentrated.


This is a serious issue for the Internet, as concentrated, centralized deployment models present risks to user choice, privacy, and future protocol evolution.


On occasion, the differences to expectations were almost immediate, but they also occur after a significant time has passed from the protocol’s initial development.


Examples include:


Email standards, which presumed many providers running in a largely uncoordinated fashion, but which has seen both significant market consolidation and a need for coordination to defend against spam and other attacks. The coordination and centralized defense mechanisms scale better for large entities, which has fueled additional consolidation.


The DNS, which presumed deep hierarchies but has often been deployed in large, flat zones, leading to the nameservers for those zones becoming critical infrastructure. Future developments in DNS may see concentration through the use of globally available common resolver services, which evolve rapidly and can offer better security. Paradoxically, concentration of these queries into few services creates new security and privacy concerns.


The Web, which is built on a fundamentally decentralized design, but which is now often delivered with the aid of Content Delivery Networks.  Their services provide scaling, distribution, and Denial of Service prevention in ways that new entrants and smaller systems operators would find difficult to replicate.  While truly small services and truly large ones may operate using only their own infrastructure, many others are left with the only practical choice being the use of a globally available commercial service.


Similar developments may happen with future technologies and services. For instance, the growing use of Machine Learning technology presents challenges for distributing effective implementation of a service throughout a pool of many different providers.


In RFC 5218 the IAB tackled what made for a successful protocol.  In RFC 8170, the IAB described how to handle protocol transitions.  This workshop will explore cases where the initial system design assumptions turned out to be wrong, looking for patterns in what caused those assumptions to fail (e.g., concentration due to DDoS resilience) and in how those failures impact the security, privacy, and manageability of the resulting deployments.


While the eventual goals might include proposing common remediations for specific cases of confounded protocol expectations, the IAB is currently inviting papers which:


  • Describe specific cases where systems assumptions during protocol development were confounded by later deployment conditions.

  • Survey a set of cases to identify common factors in these confounded expectations.

  • Explore remediations which foster user privacy, security and provider diversity in the face of these changes.


Important Dates


The workshop will be held June 4-5 in Helsinki, Finland.


Position papers must be submitted by May 3rd at the latest. The program committee will review submitted position papers and send an invitation to the workshop to one of the paper authors. Invitations will be distributed by May 9 at the latest.


Position Paper Requirements


Interested parties must submit a brief document of one to four pages, formatted as HTML, PDF, or plain text. We welcome papers that describe existing work, answers to the questions listed above, new questions, write-ups of deployment experience, lessons-learned from successful or failed attempts, and ideally a vision towards taking deployment considerations better in account when designing new Internet technology. Re-submissions from work presented elsewhere are allowed.


Program Committee


The following persons are IAB contacts for this workshop:


    Jari Arkko

    Stephen Farrell

    Ted Hardie

    Christian Huitema

    Melinda Shore

    Brian Trammell


Position papers should be sent by email to dedr-pc@iab.org.

--------------9E7DE65D0F5719B36B1E31D6-- --5wrd2fleij257prp-- From nobody Tue Apr 23 06:45:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D423120443 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 122p5OxXn9Y4 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42B72120445 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 06:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hIvjg-0006G9-Se for hrpc@irtf.org; Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:45:25 +0200 To: hrpc@irtf.org References: <3bd2b8e4-bca3-58b9-673b-3dcf8625cde1@apc.org> From: Mallory Knodel Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mallory@article19.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBEx0TWcBCAC8sirY3nlDnRwY6XWmsvZtM9kmEK6H8no3ZuQ723PKwHOddw1nOykh0in/ /QGRmwtyVzsfLh6/94UUZTn10oo+xGAfw2gf1on5IJTIiphykk732PNnUakVGWwHNKQquTVc kLrydUaFVMb89BAXqExBKlMg2ciEjzbYMCs3I/qZAZ0Wr5nF3RQS8O78elTNAgWTZ98yKTZV DlRoDpnvbfwtIPqnISoSjDEvEUBdpykvS3jHqlR1f6Mx6Xs97S5CORaer/0qTcDm0PAb1Z9l IhMsFl05tNt2FpgS4/RN8NyLasAQNOlScpTJbAfRuyyvRm1N8GLIL1KX+YYeLyqzhdhZABEB AAG0Jk1hbGxvcnkgS25vZGVsIDxtYWxsb3J5QGFydGljbGUxOS5vcmc+iQFWBBMBCABAAhsD BwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1h mgUJEepHrwAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgH3DCAC1sjJmg4+/VcESEzNkiF3KHEDCAssEaQl2FWfuXVvJ /mPliFtjpVv6EhdgUG5lbOcu12TCUWg42wHkE2kbDWXLE3f7HL+Nq0pEPVdMRXLxEfaOs2oR KGx8lh4k1UgYEpnARI486TklOAONKWdJKstEPrtt9LtysnjvhZvYCTzLKJC98c5wUvC46QYy +NdK6GB+uyVzW5kP2uUUBYxiCyHivGBbv77jcJAFVAk96ut1GFpeCCZM2WyYzer95b9n9a1B UGdJgEEVVbbBIQw7yMbMPqEwa8rpfig7QG72GieYItQjllHXGbOECiBcOHrGtrFWsHWxOxJV bZSoVq6sn1UUuQENBEx0TWcBCADiak/YuMW4BbaWL0U9sNg4zO3Qy1OFeye8fJjR8O/wWVSq cqA+sxjzRUee2fHCp6kVLedy6dVfiKmr59p21r4selOdslKaWmEGtz2oYnGpyPB/jKjfleE5 cIkXCdqgDAhfbfuVdF7heHpfhUy4m3yOJl2+CluT/CG9AfaCtyrwqMJzLWK4vmkGXxnBgb92 mGK0WFB2oRydz+SsiobgpCAqJSLcr8ZHQ54SbD9yxxYPv8IsSjt4eJoZCFI7INBsz4i7aj/q 4xcxQ+xiUwyqCZUvrzMxpw7c8TXuPHStDyhnsKkFjxhlY5avNeu0VPwk72C64I+y93gpPrL3 vL0tEmU9ABEBAAGJATwEGAECACYCGwwWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1hmgUJ EepHswAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgEDZCACcTamfNdBACpPHsmsJL1hbWertwYZg7h2rZtgmZQ9C2PMT OgkPPSsfi+xZ6PaXlvm2RI/TX51LbJsCJ9Fd2/WxKdtC0s6o7+0Cl3P57AORf3BRfl3zfXuy VhzjLvM9WhDiQM6JBqDuYxiYnjO56l+gozEuBAtUJaPIxGyggyS5eT8kKv8Szpc4g7/skZXq ccVOHj05KCOaFQ774rsIzcwppqJqGjh9X6nX6m2DONuBIYNXjH9U6FxHSJ6gRRxZkiz2/dDZ YqsHYlkKigH82r9gORhIGZkCd7xnRhyLOHnjjeKtIy5pvGwxUohy+y5l8i1155JEPNB7pphY xFxjMOQU Message-ID: <87959193-72a8-f480-5f35-44b7dcefa685@article19.org> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:45:22 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3bd2b8e4-bca3-58b9-673b-3dcf8625cde1@apc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 258bd43c1b7c380ff6f1b27dffaa1ebc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] Etherpad forn IETF104 HRPC X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 13:45:30 -0000 Thanks for the notes to those who helped take them. They've been finalised and are on the datatracker : https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/minutes-104-hrpc-00 -Mallory On 09/04/2019 02:17, avri doria wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Mallory and I are going to build the notes for the session from the > etherpad &c >=20 > Anyone with anything to add should get it into the pad during the next > days if they can. >=20 > https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-104-hrpc?useMonospaceFont=3Dtrue >=20 > Thanks >=20 > avri >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc >=20 --=20 Mallory Knodel Head of Digital :: article19.org gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780 From nobody Wed Apr 24 00:19:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@irtf.org Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BCE1202FD; Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:19:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: hrpc-chairs@ietf.org, mallory@article19.org, hrpc@irtf.org, irtf-chair@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155609036500.32100.15192763096042748134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:19:25 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] hrpc - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 07:19:25 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Mallory Knodel, a Chair of the hrpc working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Human Rights Protocol Considerations Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Mallory Knodel Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: dprive gaia irtfopen pearg Second Priority: mls doh regext Third Priority: capport dnsop People who must be present: Avri Doria Mallory Knodel Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please try to schedule for Tuesday if possible so that co-chair Avri Doria can be present. Thank you! ---------------------------------------------------------