From nobody Thu May 9 12:49:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A3A0120106 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:49:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pERfQvOhTSkz for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB2E912006B for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 12:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id a132so2163730qkb.13 for ; Thu, 09 May 2019 12:49:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=BYks/4+dWOgTC4503wiuIHmU7OrD1xB035QM+s36ceo=; b=hP78CSIONQ4l6r6+D3qNyDceteNMs9W0zCtBYIaCrObVIm/w17KCzJOOtP/k25PRzW BiTSBHGf8B8w3iwgYiPQ+xdbhdwUT/S+bK+V8r5hWb3HmTpPRQCDpAgl03qsW5Mru5Yb +e2fQ3SPgWujLQe+RynasbGJbqn6SlZPv1+/OcX5bZg+fbjU8FGe+DlIiJi/RclJuI75 oAVafTR4hUDJ4MowqJe7KVuI5iwldTq2z+D5alnqKr6kG9DVYfhE3D5Q+6M7HS0SzQTk TQOLpzxBtMetlqCaFBt1Rtc0Q92E6GY9baGma7DU2AmCIiKMSwzRZ/z+V/UFlNZcOqor 4yzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=BYks/4+dWOgTC4503wiuIHmU7OrD1xB035QM+s36ceo=; b=r6jwMzfLltr51VP+3qFoTN3tL3sIZcc3A9ao9DJozLdcWN5ayJtG6EVFmucreamaFg zmo9Y3ZTpo6Od4cdSGf7CNYr96A0D2oCPF/dFEeZxUvA7KhPdPTqatHsE9XCOU6Hjfg6 CWbbD2Y9uKpvfrp3YZRtRjDCE7kWwZxM1E+Ztqf/yvrzZ1u3cNOn7ae/VhdG1/l0zwls NKbofW0znD5mK0F2Rh/BgcA1c+YbQIUti4Cwm2Cd9jXyplxDXx2/whZxxI9KZacdNpzv eP0NFQ2acQinJFJRwqTSnVAhFXmVTTPH+BggUcJGm4HO+SHw4gTRC6f84H1tmZrvnb+u J44A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXH02uQDfBEBgHd3hT0KwrNvPVktoaJ+ruaebkVwTAnIEaSEiKc 6uZPulQqx71b133TPpW2Xe4b1PJDtt7QXuk2UnDeEA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxrBjUROn5SGG8tDDGgCGeMA3jbbYAjT4VUK3nkvv7rhP1rwmDf+3kgEP9CHFxpmW3Qrq+TUsYl8CHT9TC8DvA= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9ce:: with SMTP id 197mr5140339qkj.190.1557431376427; Thu, 09 May 2019 12:49:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: farzaneh badii Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 15:49:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: "hrpc@irtf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f43f62058879bf04" Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] Christchurch call. And not Internet protocol related X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 19:49:41 -0000 --000000000000f43f62058879bf04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear HRPC I am sorry that this email has nothing to do with Internet protocols and hopefully it won=E2=80=99t have. But I didn=E2=80=99t know how to reach out= to the technical community ( not corporations) so I thought I try my luck here and reach out to you via HRPC. See below the our call for coordination for civil soc and technical community to provide input to the Christchurch call. We will have an online meeting tomorrow which I hope you can join to discuss our input. Once again sorry for hijacking this mailing list for another purpose &&&&&& New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern along with the French President Emmanuel Macron intends to sign a pledge with other nation states and CEOs of tech companies to eliminate "terrorist, violent extremist content" on the Internet , in a meeting on 15 May in Paris. We are planning to receive as much feedback as possible from Internet governance civil society and the technical community about terrorist content moderation online and relay the comments during the meetings held in Paris. To do so we have organized two online meetings to be held on Wednesday 8 May at 11.00 (AM) UTC and Friday 10 May at 11(AM) UTC. We had to schedule the meetings to be more or less convenient for different timezones. For some background about the event and a timeline you can refer to: Online Content Takedown, The Christchurch call https://www.internetgovernance.org/2019/05/05/online-content-takedown-the-c= hristchurch-call/ InternetNZ facilitating Tech and Civil Society Participation in Christchurch call: https://internetnz.nz/Christchurch-Call If you would like to discuss this topic and cannot make it to the online meetings, you can always reach out or you can join this forum to continue the discussions: https://christchurchcallcoord.internetnz.nz/ We look forward to your participation. **** Meeting information, 8 May and 10 May - To be held at 11 AM UTC* Meeting URL https://bluejeans.com/212601815?src=3Djoin_info Meeting ID 212 601 815 Want to dial in from a phone? Dial one of the following numbers: +1.408.740.7256 (US (San Jose)) +1.408.317.9253 (US (Primary, San Jose)) (see all numbers - https://www.bluejeans.com/premium-numbers) Enter the meeting ID and passcode followed by # Connecting from a room system? Dial: bjn.vc or 199.48.152.152 and enter your meeting ID & passcode --=20 Farzaneh --000000000000f43f62058879bf04 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear HRPC=C2=A0

I am sorry that this email has nothing to do with Internet p= rotocols and hopefully it won=E2=80=99t have. But I didn=E2=80=99t know how= to reach out to the technical community ( not corporations) so I thought I= try my luck here and reach out to you via HRPC.=C2=A0

See below the our call for coordination for = civil soc and technical community to provide input to =C2=A0the Christchurc= h call. We will have an online meeting tomorrow which I hope you can join t= o discuss our input. Once again sorry for hijacking this mailing list for a= nother purpose=C2=A0
&&&&&&<= /div>


New Zealand Prime Minister Ja= cinda Ardern along with the French=C2=A0 President Emmanuel Macron intends = to sign a pledge with other nation states and CEOs of tech companies to=C2=A0eliminate= "terrorist, violent extremist content" on the Internet, in a= meeting on 15 May in Paris.

We are planning to rece= ive as much feedback as possible from Internet governance civil society and= the technical community about terrorist content moderation online and rela= y the comments during the meetings held in Paris. To do so we have organize= d two online meetings to be held on Wednesday 8 May at 11.00 (AM) UTC and F= riday 10 May at 11(AM) UTC.=C2=A0We had to schedule the meetin= gs to be more or less convenient for different timezones.
=

For some background about the event and a ti= meline you can refer to:

InternetNZ facilitating Tech and Civil Society Participation in Christc= hurch call:=C2=A0http= s://internetnz.nz/Christchurch-Call


<= div style=3D"font-size:12pt;word-spacing:1px;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:= 0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stret= ch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-ser= if;vertical-align:baseline" dir=3D"auto">If = you would like to discuss this topic and cannot make it to the online meeti= ngs, you can always reach out or you can join this forum to continue the di= scussions:=C2=A0https://christchurchcallcoord.internetnz.nz/


We look forward to your participation.=C2=A0=

=

*** Meeting information= , 8 May and 10 May - To be held at 11 AM UTC

Meeti= ng URL

Meeting ID
212 601 815

Want to dial in from a phone?

Dial one of the following numbe= rs:
+1.408.740.7256=C2=A0(US (San J= ose))
+1.408.317.9253=C2=A0(US (Pri= mary, San Jose))

Enter the meeting ID and passcode followed by #

Connecting from a room s= ystem?
= Dial:=C2=A0bjn.vc=C2=A0or 199.48.152.152 and enter your meeting ID & pas= scode


<= /div>



--
Fa= rzaneh
--000000000000f43f62058879bf04-- From nobody Thu May 16 03:48:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@irtf.org Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF611201BB; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:48:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: hrpc@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hrpc@irtf.org Message-ID: <155800370671.19593.6748269796636114495@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:48:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:48:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Human Rights Protocol Considerations RG of the IRTF. Title : Notes on networking standards and politics Author : Niels ten Oever Filename : draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2019-05-16 Abstract: The IETF cannot ordain what standards or protocols are to be used on networks, but the standards development process in the IETF has a normative effect. Among other things, the IETF's work affects what is perceived as technologically possible and useful where networking technologies are being deployed, and its standards reflect what is considered by the technical community to be feasible and good practice. Because the IETF's protocols mediate many aspects of modern life, and therefore contribute to the ordering of societies and communities, the consideration of the potential social impact of protocols should be part of the standardization and development process. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-political/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 16 03:56:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1FCD12022A for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:56:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mdJuPbYKVRtS for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:56:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD112120074 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRE34-0000HC-3C for hrpc@irtf.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 12:56:13 +0200 References: <155800370693.19593.5764375739181605083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "hrpc@irtf.org" From: Niels ten Oever Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mail@nielstenoever.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFgpcR0BEACnfvNwTMlN+pyZT0AFYhWqxG3N4AoPIeNfbxLQH7dk8ZL7Ls05xtORfnu9 ovoaRrZpDufkMviUFidNYePbQNdgf63vWVgwpQR7utluwWraetcmZOu6tayJuyBK2b6d2Z23 MJAQxfa2/GMlN3QkvobaoyKtgbc8rOCgNla7WwkgtiVJ89xbAUHXPFpKWZluVRjaFh4p5C5r 7E5OvUiEGLQ5Cn2ir2PGIyIVqjB+hLTyaI6dIGCz2jtL0RATjmsmYUX7UkU/pz8MPPC2BJ5P KU9pdXMRBhAStxcph8vCo2ze9xSi3+1/5A2ULVtvO4s0hZ+exbTfMxMg3H5CCRFEEJXlQEXa Cd0ZHvqcv5xq8n9w/Ccd0CqYWATIwyP8Jlzd+BY3QGTWnWlgoAbs3Guh/pFYhEFNuuAF5Jk1 k5OlNGsRE/LQJmbT5SE7AtLJLbWewcHlEyIH+K6J8uVa4ExLXmRy+eRkFaxjGy3fLlUpy1Ee 1kU7VsQ/TZ8g8ujsMzxqsdB6y0TD/kVlWaDqPL6F+b+pm3lAuCBGWM1YZROTG58R6pD7sNVm i0ift4dIttAsg+2KoShm9A8kQ3tACXZDgNPC0l7VOqnVayjnF0RmjGeiX7PjOcLQCZ9a5wAH 5mrXMaKvfszqAVkP9HSrk1QVZOipF6vEimL43Czy7Rp1aUaUwwARAQABtChOaWVscyB0ZW4g T2V2ZXIgPG1haWxAbmllbHN0ZW5vZXZlci5uZXQ+iQJZBBMBCABDAhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcD AgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQQkWAtwXEr9ipSIZDoO2D86RorIswUCWyJaFgIZAQAK CRAO2D86RorIs8I2D/wNc4kT+dRC3Y9lSygeVWuxNj21z/QlbNvfXx9NicgBx4uCjsCm0ZhS 6qnp0uHYZYr8rdIzrL3GazyEuG9uvNzZBvIHm92UY1x0NH0TOVbGwJCWKULStvg9S+DjmNgp x8XM9amCtuXZyCiESeoOVRUanzD1JIidJtKgDfxvC63kqYoXl3azP0ra2nZbpktMm2fW5YdN D6kp6otjBH/jtpLay1CpVDS2Ehl3rLXJVUu96hlBnQB8q+64qyhTZ23HnbU+ib5Zb3OFgYoB KHjukJ4tV4x9rQprCQeirKX627vcNniDPnMp/nr9Qww6iVidX2vsG/22cx8MqLfs4B9tOVCJ Ft9D7MOwxOWgKnaYvrPZBOEmnuGq7btQe1tQZukL1Z83jKkV/e43k1gJaRt4Nl3/6YYCAlnn aQwRmySxznojsEl+X41UaJ6QFcoCphucOHoO9MeVzuNzgOgodXXEvlA8OJAqxRbE5AqB0leJ z1PfyrF1lsy8ETPRGKUKPBVed1vpZCQBfd/5RksOYBGhyfQ8p0w0hGs8SG6Xl6UtorJ+baLZ ZtnYbakfroxQBsF4bD/0P4fZ8wvTUDNLT8WN/9KFoTXrKn2pTLD+V9iw6nQAH4LSPw0G8XsL ce3Ihkf/2bvorGCUO7YXG4u6FPzEHsa/ZNfWHA5kbpGfwe2OVYNeI7kCDQRYKXEdARAAxYOE 3/AFmEfQ0SVVFujYFhZKX+BGXolYytC2a1soZogVYTIIlypxkRtN+ljteFAY3xX/El7cx5Fx j+uXvLKAm9xQRI/DCug7/NGULMk9bDK5bzSGw817cyiL5Kb+0RkWj2Y5ArOAK6XPGBZWZTHw yIawsSCN9AhDXZQWVRqkR1QXcq3IYKl+OHWMO7+1VfixCSakNf7T/Kiq46rQEPW8Eghk6CVO BR8xUCBbyk5aRW4VSGO6pUD3H21ur+5fTLsVyan1NHhxNNiXfnEJKr+JI5dXSkj7WqA5n8IT aNdFSAttkdT56wAQpxE2h8zaOmBaFUWQ4D8SdXDVymP5QMtLG+ItMMiNV6kXgsRFugAKM5yZ tPP9gIX+ic8QO5iuct37bRXJU/rmrH54Ab0kyAeeRE7oSsfTZPKvgtUh7VLAUEw/wy6TORJH E8JMaX0yYT6h4PGRS3mNM4bka8hjdfcrexI0zSqFOl2I22zQlG3YqSzIvVh98W67hxfAIaCV aTfJLFPEru3drxNwi6ogdkRmcLGKqqTgeYItrvITyFvzqbrcO2exp0KKEK3cDIZypqHHUf4+ uPlDtuExehLsNOMpjP8qhZpFtyLeDS07qunbvstcyvR30wOJ3DyAbHGzq739UyDcO9Jt5jwO DyVwk3MK5Em4pJ0+IAJx+F6gta0Bk2MAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWClxHQIbDAUJCWYBgAAK CRAO2D86RorIs0ykD/4t151SZG9MbeKRVKbs9Ecjady9bO0L3oBos4rhqY12ha8smFlsUzvb gB4CtkBuXQlq+plOBWv+rFEThOzy3bezgEDjlxycoO1W2wJD6E7Fo9fkHT6UOm9fQBkuKRqK 83OGnfM02qP1Ky8d7EoZz+nTSMf/DJgWw1YRKrXkMHBwKD83lCENsmePWE5AjMqk8cojPv9O y1wWy6fHjwx3r+wQSokBNfxgQyAFonmgBbhlic/pZUYRSIcldyUlaomrjFfr4egzmNE7aWDv LwOUYKevBIeJJcqTyfAn3TtJbPCEHOC2+lP6EcmPFyhQdiia+RqOClumqbWOPeQ2VM8j7NWv KKmBNBB5OJ/rmHogbNU+wWPJ723qMBoOp1jIwFNkQhx01W6v55VMwLr+IuBKY1ggJ2BhwQiG pWv4tMc5oB/qVh3my1VO65ErcJ3S9blpwJdDj5/YDOU7BKEmpRUP+xkaryNzH2x7FzrOOHzJ BX6jeYZabGvnTicQlBAzfGpblFqV3YN6EhCF2AHmGLTZ/DrjGYToIsW8cXlEMqN4u8ODEUY0 OhbnytnopKJKk99bwMoCqDkfQvT3LKDWtZj9NzFndfuoKXsVpwAitrG0mau0/16DKDyVWdtJ 9DYmtE40zO6g70VVxUj+dKt2hbJTy/KQTb7Ijhw7wZrGp/P7nhbVyA== X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <155800370693.19593.5764375739181605083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <1f4a27a6-c0a8-b195-be04-5fe6471c8b8a@nielstenoever.net> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 12:55:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <155800370693.19593.5764375739181605083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-As-Hash: f1842a279235a42f6aa2a2a81130733515c5a4ec X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 3b058867a8808b2a73617ccb478d635a Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:56:19 -0000 Hi all, Here is a new version of draft-political. Following the discussion we've had I have done the following: 1. Remove speculative parts 2. Fix typos, spelling, grammar 3. Tighten the draft up. With this I think that the draft serves its intended purpose better: contribute to an increased common understanding in the current discussion on protocols and the standard setting process, without providing a speculative answer to it. Looking forward to hear what you all think! Best, Niels -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:48:26 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Niels ten Oever A new version of I-D, draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Niels ten Oever and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-irtf-hrpc-political Revision: 02 Title: Notes on networking standards and politics Document date: 2019-05-16 Group: hrpc Pages: 16 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-political/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 Abstract: The IETF cannot ordain what standards or protocols are to be used on networks, but the standards development process in the IETF has a normative effect. Among other things, the IETF's work affects what is perceived as technologically possible and useful where networking technologies are being deployed, and its standards reflect what is considered by the technical community to be feasible and good practice. Because the IETF's protocols mediate many aspects of modern life, and therefore contribute to the ordering of societies and communities, the consideration of the potential social impact of protocols should be part of the standardization and development process. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Thu May 16 06:19:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93431120045 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 06:19:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cdt.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f8FpVC8JLDJi for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 06:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D319C120025 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 06:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id u2so2549708ioc.4 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 06:19:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cdt.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vKHydM5W4VGUrZeuJj8nOLFIkKMg/okPUfd27LV16ns=; b=FtAkR7jtypaKyLkaJv+UKgpS0/8AoPzLzusVRfa3GlnDLzQAqg+V5E9TeXIbrZRcmg HNMuHWYHc0q6k9oCIQbduw9xdKLIN+cHXnOw2pDPe76niGpIucYqPIcktW7AsKyIn/4u EhhELXrMXpy2LutMPMKct0PvSTcqLQpkNmh1c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vKHydM5W4VGUrZeuJj8nOLFIkKMg/okPUfd27LV16ns=; b=B7LkErE0QLf3X+4+8KSNPZS3QBMdtJQ2yaES702Ya/fae3Xyrz7Q+6BsyJNhytZ2L0 7UzpwZxJLPk0OhEc0HqH8deG2U6Cqz8FZ/lDMwCiymmVy7/EiI502vjqaahss1nAFp26 qi86PO6ciWG+vstfkVokbz7lzF++WZrM3WNdGZOLeVYnzTcTlptJUyU/wkfJrjBRYU3B 9P2rFK//z7P2TlLu/BtPLmXjHmHGlmpKR8ZeunwGe0QNj8nuXDKD31J4JGxuYrBxFECI aM3W/xiBSoiY3mfYMM0KtKg5dHeiNlXIIwaOo2Xx7byPZcxnojZ5Fi139iCUbl7NydcM Zp9g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXjY7GiFRPc8cCPfJJ9/0t/0oyjKpueHfR49fpNaMN2Oszz3ncf RDgmOoT0PXFmkoLiuQyocy7YuJP3QRlWk8y/YpZLHg84LNo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxui5feo1Had+oyWAcEV9MaypsUEMju8mIH9sIhBJ9mtD11pt7V/F3h/pXCsMlwlBd+jJxJCNCim8XvAAfUNes= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:7301:: with SMTP id e1mr29647050ioh.23.1558012753745; Thu, 16 May 2019 06:19:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <27c2964d-e533-9ea3-bacf-763afe9111ee@nielstenoever.net> <9b24f9c1-c8dc-16e2-ce3d-e1749828ddab@doria.org> In-Reply-To: <9b24f9c1-c8dc-16e2-ce3d-e1749828ddab@doria.org> From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 09:19:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Avri Cc: Hrpc Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be368d0589011c89" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association-02 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 13:19:18 -0000 --000000000000be368d0589011c89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the flurry of feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a co-traveler... On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as far as it has come. > > Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue with this draft. > Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is interested in being > part of an editorial effort to take it toward completion. > > Thanks > > avri > > > On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote: > > Thanks for all the great reviews and comments. It is great to see a lot > of new energy on this draft. > > > > As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are not the best persons to > integrate the proposed changes, so we would like to take a step back a lead > authors and hope that others will step forward to take the lead to take > this RG document further. > > > > If there are no others who want to work as co-authors, perhaps the > reviewers (and RG participants and others) could propose alternate text > either in attached markdown document, or as pull requests on github ( > https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.md )? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Niels and Gisela > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org] 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 --000000000000be368d0589011c89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the f= lurry of feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a co-tr= aveler...

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM <avri@doria.org> wrote:
Hi,

Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as far as it has come.

Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue with this draft.=C2=A0
Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is interested in being
part of an editorial effort to take it toward completion.

Thanks

avri


On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote:
> Thanks for all the great reviews and comments. It is great to see a lo= t of new energy on this draft.
>
> As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are not the best persons to in= tegrate the proposed changes, so we would like to take a step back a lead a= uthors and hope that others will step forward to take the lead to take this= RG document further.
>
> If there are no others who want to work as co-authors, perhaps the rev= iewers (and RG participants and others) could propose alternate text either= in attached markdown document, or as pull requests on github ( https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/= master/draft-association.md )?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Niels and Gisela
>
>

_______________________________________________
hrpc mailing list
hrpc@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc


--
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy &= ; Technology [https://www= .cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.882= 5, pgp: https:= //josephhall.org/gpg-key
Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 =C2= =A01607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871

--000000000000be368d0589011c89-- From nobody Thu May 16 07:37:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE58120026 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 07:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hw8Py_VCwaQt for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 07:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15473120098 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 07:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRHVU-0003Ci-EP for hrpc@irtf.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:37:46 +0200 From: Niels ten Oever To: "hrpc@irtf.org" References: <155800370693.19593.5764375739181605083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1f4a27a6-c0a8-b195-be04-5fe6471c8b8a@nielstenoever.net> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mail@nielstenoever.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFgpcR0BEACnfvNwTMlN+pyZT0AFYhWqxG3N4AoPIeNfbxLQH7dk8ZL7Ls05xtORfnu9 ovoaRrZpDufkMviUFidNYePbQNdgf63vWVgwpQR7utluwWraetcmZOu6tayJuyBK2b6d2Z23 MJAQxfa2/GMlN3QkvobaoyKtgbc8rOCgNla7WwkgtiVJ89xbAUHXPFpKWZluVRjaFh4p5C5r 7E5OvUiEGLQ5Cn2ir2PGIyIVqjB+hLTyaI6dIGCz2jtL0RATjmsmYUX7UkU/pz8MPPC2BJ5P KU9pdXMRBhAStxcph8vCo2ze9xSi3+1/5A2ULVtvO4s0hZ+exbTfMxMg3H5CCRFEEJXlQEXa Cd0ZHvqcv5xq8n9w/Ccd0CqYWATIwyP8Jlzd+BY3QGTWnWlgoAbs3Guh/pFYhEFNuuAF5Jk1 k5OlNGsRE/LQJmbT5SE7AtLJLbWewcHlEyIH+K6J8uVa4ExLXmRy+eRkFaxjGy3fLlUpy1Ee 1kU7VsQ/TZ8g8ujsMzxqsdB6y0TD/kVlWaDqPL6F+b+pm3lAuCBGWM1YZROTG58R6pD7sNVm i0ift4dIttAsg+2KoShm9A8kQ3tACXZDgNPC0l7VOqnVayjnF0RmjGeiX7PjOcLQCZ9a5wAH 5mrXMaKvfszqAVkP9HSrk1QVZOipF6vEimL43Czy7Rp1aUaUwwARAQABtChOaWVscyB0ZW4g T2V2ZXIgPG1haWxAbmllbHN0ZW5vZXZlci5uZXQ+iQJZBBMBCABDAhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcD AgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQQkWAtwXEr9ipSIZDoO2D86RorIswUCWyJaFgIZAQAK CRAO2D86RorIs8I2D/wNc4kT+dRC3Y9lSygeVWuxNj21z/QlbNvfXx9NicgBx4uCjsCm0ZhS 6qnp0uHYZYr8rdIzrL3GazyEuG9uvNzZBvIHm92UY1x0NH0TOVbGwJCWKULStvg9S+DjmNgp x8XM9amCtuXZyCiESeoOVRUanzD1JIidJtKgDfxvC63kqYoXl3azP0ra2nZbpktMm2fW5YdN D6kp6otjBH/jtpLay1CpVDS2Ehl3rLXJVUu96hlBnQB8q+64qyhTZ23HnbU+ib5Zb3OFgYoB KHjukJ4tV4x9rQprCQeirKX627vcNniDPnMp/nr9Qww6iVidX2vsG/22cx8MqLfs4B9tOVCJ Ft9D7MOwxOWgKnaYvrPZBOEmnuGq7btQe1tQZukL1Z83jKkV/e43k1gJaRt4Nl3/6YYCAlnn aQwRmySxznojsEl+X41UaJ6QFcoCphucOHoO9MeVzuNzgOgodXXEvlA8OJAqxRbE5AqB0leJ z1PfyrF1lsy8ETPRGKUKPBVed1vpZCQBfd/5RksOYBGhyfQ8p0w0hGs8SG6Xl6UtorJ+baLZ ZtnYbakfroxQBsF4bD/0P4fZ8wvTUDNLT8WN/9KFoTXrKn2pTLD+V9iw6nQAH4LSPw0G8XsL ce3Ihkf/2bvorGCUO7YXG4u6FPzEHsa/ZNfWHA5kbpGfwe2OVYNeI7kCDQRYKXEdARAAxYOE 3/AFmEfQ0SVVFujYFhZKX+BGXolYytC2a1soZogVYTIIlypxkRtN+ljteFAY3xX/El7cx5Fx j+uXvLKAm9xQRI/DCug7/NGULMk9bDK5bzSGw817cyiL5Kb+0RkWj2Y5ArOAK6XPGBZWZTHw yIawsSCN9AhDXZQWVRqkR1QXcq3IYKl+OHWMO7+1VfixCSakNf7T/Kiq46rQEPW8Eghk6CVO BR8xUCBbyk5aRW4VSGO6pUD3H21ur+5fTLsVyan1NHhxNNiXfnEJKr+JI5dXSkj7WqA5n8IT aNdFSAttkdT56wAQpxE2h8zaOmBaFUWQ4D8SdXDVymP5QMtLG+ItMMiNV6kXgsRFugAKM5yZ tPP9gIX+ic8QO5iuct37bRXJU/rmrH54Ab0kyAeeRE7oSsfTZPKvgtUh7VLAUEw/wy6TORJH E8JMaX0yYT6h4PGRS3mNM4bka8hjdfcrexI0zSqFOl2I22zQlG3YqSzIvVh98W67hxfAIaCV aTfJLFPEru3drxNwi6ogdkRmcLGKqqTgeYItrvITyFvzqbrcO2exp0KKEK3cDIZypqHHUf4+ uPlDtuExehLsNOMpjP8qhZpFtyLeDS07qunbvstcyvR30wOJ3DyAbHGzq739UyDcO9Jt5jwO DyVwk3MK5Em4pJ0+IAJx+F6gta0Bk2MAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWClxHQIbDAUJCWYBgAAK CRAO2D86RorIs0ykD/4t151SZG9MbeKRVKbs9Ecjady9bO0L3oBos4rhqY12ha8smFlsUzvb gB4CtkBuXQlq+plOBWv+rFEThOzy3bezgEDjlxycoO1W2wJD6E7Fo9fkHT6UOm9fQBkuKRqK 83OGnfM02qP1Ky8d7EoZz+nTSMf/DJgWw1YRKrXkMHBwKD83lCENsmePWE5AjMqk8cojPv9O y1wWy6fHjwx3r+wQSokBNfxgQyAFonmgBbhlic/pZUYRSIcldyUlaomrjFfr4egzmNE7aWDv LwOUYKevBIeJJcqTyfAn3TtJbPCEHOC2+lP6EcmPFyhQdiia+RqOClumqbWOPeQ2VM8j7NWv KKmBNBB5OJ/rmHogbNU+wWPJ723qMBoOp1jIwFNkQhx01W6v55VMwLr+IuBKY1ggJ2BhwQiG pWv4tMc5oB/qVh3my1VO65ErcJ3S9blpwJdDj5/YDOU7BKEmpRUP+xkaryNzH2x7FzrOOHzJ BX6jeYZabGvnTicQlBAzfGpblFqV3YN6EhCF2AHmGLTZ/DrjGYToIsW8cXlEMqN4u8ODEUY0 OhbnytnopKJKk99bwMoCqDkfQvT3LKDWtZj9NzFndfuoKXsVpwAitrG0mau0/16DKDyVWdtJ 9DYmtE40zO6g70VVxUj+dKt2hbJTy/KQTb7Ijhw7wZrGp/P7nhbVyA== Message-ID: <06b25a76-4777-11cf-edfe-77e5cf1f9376@nielstenoever.net> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 16:37:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1f4a27a6-c0a8-b195-be04-5fe6471c8b8a@nielstenoever.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-As-Hash: f1842a279235a42f6aa2a2a81130733515c5a4ec X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: d5aa70a8063fc4d8c9ef9eac2991db7d Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 14:37:52 -0000 Hi all, I just realized I have overlooked the (extensive) review provided by Joe Hall (sorry Joe!), so I will incorporate his review and produce a new version as soon as possible. Best, Niels On 5/16/19 12:55 PM, Niels ten Oever wrote: > Hi all, > > Here is a new version of draft-political. > > Following the discussion we've had I have done the following: > > 1. Remove speculative parts > 2. Fix typos, spelling, grammar > 3. Tighten the draft up. > > With this I think that the draft serves its intended purpose better: contribute to an increased common understanding in the current discussion on protocols and the standard setting process, without providing a speculative answer to it. > > Looking forward to hear what you all think! > > Best, > > Niels > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt > Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:48:26 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Niels ten Oever > > > A new version of I-D, draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt > has been successfully submitted by Niels ten Oever and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-irtf-hrpc-political > Revision: 02 > Title: Notes on networking standards and politics > Document date: 2019-05-16 > Group: hrpc > Pages: 16 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-political/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-hrpc-political-02 > > Abstract: > The IETF cannot ordain what standards or protocols are to be used on > networks, but the standards development process in the IETF has a > normative effect. Among other things, the IETF's work affects what > is perceived as technologically possible and useful where networking > technologies are being deployed, and its standards reflect what is > considered by the technical community to be feasible and good > practice. Because the IETF's protocols mediate many aspects of > modern life, and therefore contribute to the ordering of societies > and communities, the consideration of the potential social impact of > protocols should be part of the standardization and development > process. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > -- Niels ten Oever Researcher and PhD Candidate DATACTIVE Research Group University of Amsterdam PGP fingerprint 2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488 643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3 From nobody Thu May 16 07:50:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D7E120094 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pnAcHmd-mlOC for ; 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prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFJXhnsBCADCE9YSMulYfOUptnfTF1uwP2BRzUq87CAUacN6N5H5k8lNffqEXmgI+QWC njF7OwJ71rQLVYV3sIlpCQU9UyQfLHZDZoqV1d+aAJhgmmG6XtSReUi4jgAvsLzj+HkJSSqU 4voepwXs5k2DgRONAXojxvV5rFExDNqz4fn1zj2jf0SMTbCBkhHw1HQ6WXqW5T73LNbEUVys yEJBb+3+ITCVPTeVm7P/dXIEnsIsRVW8yeYoo1+E+jbPJ0OqHXtrWTdqqlU1CUHBgGWEFIIM qT//XVO0Kck8qyir7wqXb37fhSAkw32ZAKrd2NFrq71qk9Yj+SLtgxxqjGVLcbh3WVfRABEB AAG0GWF2cmkgZG9yaWEgPGF2cmlAYXBjLm9yZz6JATkEEwECACMCGy8HCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJ CgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCWb5voAAKCRDVqemiyf8Pp4DxB/0VpTyM+PeQjwybFNWW5KPQtNSn fvwZEq8KdD0SLuJs5Qch0sK5FJZVS6onR+3oOUYMrDycUWDnUzlZsG09viwVwh1yWF0L9zdh 5KEyfkEWxBFvVcgxWp3uBY0OnVrbs70E5H+afchx2KHauhD9sYdIkbwNMGvGSTsnt3pOJsGh XlDQFWknj0pOZUVTTyTv7AW7r3iDosc/qvetvVDSOqtkaUaSMOXXaX4VfZ9yZppMvH742Mao DY8eYLk75jtsrMFchgTgTnghOU72iNqtT6UzR4V3G4b6BA6nnB0wPTprCNFEi4xJ+ZNHST8M p3VDJJ8qirY634b4IHRQGgglsvpquQENBFJXhnsBCAC9oZ7Y7fdMQOI/cnhbxTAJhKhv6yI9 MN131d20LAwVFHR+K1Zd0kj6e6wTYXu3axjfkoED9pSeoXIpEcX2RI/Q509P/REazDKju0mF Ewek8fLyKKpsv0+J6h6VZZwk8oscSQ2qIVB7U5DdwRInv/z5TJyAtrV7fSUTF0kwKt5a1Kdp kcw1wVmS4T1VKselKNzDB9ZmoKvPPKYjSQEHX/z/r0rmso1cD8rhuhxBHRvuUNNOkHmUCnwG Yp2qtyAhMoplmWy1mUQuW8Nuj2TisSAlCjQNYQGiIcODiqxrCkQkzo+HDeU+q6/8I868MLMc qcVIhGnP+21cIBL+Tv/k4qQJABEBAAGJAj4EGAECAAkCGy4FAlm+b6ABKcBdIAQZAQIABgUC UleGewAKCRDqPi/LQnt+h072B/0V6xovIpgrx6Lu1EvqbmudcE0K1oIc+pxGmr7RUfpOcB63 +1nY8RHQ2iZ29GGZIuSIhMqoRxKvU29CTAsnuK84Fqb3dWfCSdhV5mPBI7kWYNbD99278ZtY TO6rDwk1l859Xh2N4ucwHbRBJNIforC5hLrhVoRjcM8m9AQv4fOGB8par+/2zKx1MwrZFCnT tlcdFvHvxFlA3yyZx7b0xU09RP5KDp1hKyX5ioathuqzL9d17FO76/QFmerwwN89qLAh1pAN oJIVO08B6j5GPRz6HpFF5Uf59dYwUvScMeA57Mne6amkR8aMkanxFk4vCRfjfl8wt27n9xt2 7ltwQ5jXCRDVqemiyf8Pp/vMB/9HUlA3G5LPeX7VmrSFhV3baHzk3sS749d3R/QVmksuzkAy mtTfN/LU7EVSzjKRdwJm5KjVg6nRd+x3Fkk/Wjvz4vL0hRrSG1Rw++GhVBtz5TTgbJWXmvht lFFdlkl2T4k3IvCC9phfIa7fdi3BP+AGml4d+XfJ4KY8dwqiJBaDFB1RANYsnuWC/ho6hUd0 dgDC4cCvzbvbsPnEiUKnmac5BrpT3eBnHMY/GDC0CImcDEzyEXloEhE6IUZs8ktOGeskONsX L6FG0OpS11tH4zTUwXA/d4Z5TpNcX/nfbcd374oDK5MW1Rjcfzm/dqERsM+t555z4A6GaJLW V5shyIdh Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:50:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190516-0, 05/16/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association-02 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 14:50:22 -0000 Hi, Thank you. Any takers on the role of co-traveler? thanks avri On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the flurry of > feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a > co-traveler... > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM > wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as far as it has > come. > > Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue with this draft.  > Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is interested in > being > part of an editorial effort to take it toward completion. > > Thanks > > avri > > > On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote: > > Thanks for all the great reviews and comments. It is great to > see a lot of new energy on this draft. > > > > As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are not the best persons > to integrate the proposed changes, so we would like to take a step > back a lead authors and hope that others will step forward to take > the lead to take this RG document further. > > > > If there are no others who want to work as co-authors, perhaps > the reviewers (and RG participants and others) could propose > alternate text either in attached markdown document, or as pull > requests on github ( > https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.md > )? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Niels and Gisela > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > > -- > Joseph Lorenzo Hall > Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology > [https://www..cdt.org ] > 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 > e: joe@cdt.org , p: 202.407.8825, pgp: > https://josephhall.org/gpg-key > Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 > > > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc From nobody Thu May 16 08:05:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1554D120114 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:05:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cJwNtDwTw-jS for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homere.koumbit.net (homere.koumbit.net [199.58.80.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02D181200EC for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-f41.google.com (mail-wr1-f41.google.com [209.85.221.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: steph@stephcouture.info) by homere.koumbit.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99A9A1E4238A for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 11:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-f41.google.com with SMTP id h4so3795118wre.7 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:05:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX/hNT/dZjkwpv9gi6kfMkCffNWU9xUALpfEMSqaUkGxVL1Um9w tvDTa1TPxd9Uu+tp+BZ2Uga00L3SwI4fVlv4Kc8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy++QM9MfSMb+yOPflgLSZ0gRRMNmp1TMMABaNJ4hn0yrtVRoDUISErkXiUWggbKRePMw5z4UH4kQjE/irsbmI= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f6c4:: with SMTP id y4mr3694507wrp.37.1558019129229; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:05:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <27c2964d-e533-9ea3-bacf-763afe9111ee@nielstenoever.net> <9b24f9c1-c8dc-16e2-ce3d-e1749828ddab@doria.org> In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Couture?= Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 11:05:17 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: avri doria Cc: hrpc@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c048eb05890298c9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association-02 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:05:35 -0000 --000000000000c048eb05890298c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Mallory have asked me recently to act as editor, as way to contribute to the group. I was hesitant to do it alone, but I'd be happy to be "co-traveler" on this, if Joseph and others agree. I also made comments on the draft, but for some reasons, my document didn't save, so I need to write them again. I'll send them asap. Best, St=C3=A9phane Le jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0 10:50, avri doria a =C3=A9crit : > Hi, > > Thank you. > > Any takers on the role of co-traveler? > > thanks > > avri > > > On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > > I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the flurry of > > feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a > > co-traveler... > > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM > > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as far as it has > > come. > > > > Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue with this draft. > > Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is interested in > > being > > part of an editorial effort to take it toward completion. > > > > Thanks > > > > avri > > > > > > On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote: > > > Thanks for all the great reviews and comments. It is great to > > see a lot of new energy on this draft. > > > > > > As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are not the best persons > > to integrate the proposed changes, so we would like to take a step > > back a lead authors and hope that others will step forward to take > > the lead to take this RG document further. > > > > > > If there are no others who want to work as co-authors, perhaps > > the reviewers (and RG participants and others) could propose > > alternate text either in attached markdown document, or as pull > > requests on github ( > > https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.m= d > > )? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > Niels and Gisela > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hrpc mailing list > > hrpc@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > > > > > > -- > > Joseph Lorenzo Hall > > Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology > > [https://www..cdt.org ] > > 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 > > e: joe@cdt.org , p: 202.407.8825, pgp: > > https://josephhall.org/gpg-key > > Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hrpc mailing list > > hrpc@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > --000000000000c048eb05890298c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Mallory have asked me recently = to act as editor, as way to contribute to the group. I was hesitant to do i= t alone, but I'd be happy to be "co-traveler" on this, if Jos= eph and others agree.=C2=A0

I also made comments o= n the draft, but for some reasons, my document didn't save, so I need t= o write them again. I'll send them asap.

Best,

St=C3=A9ph= ane

Le=C2=A0jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A010:50, avri doria <avri@apc.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
=
Hi,

Thank you.

Any takers on the role of co-traveler?

thanks

avri


On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
> I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the flurry of
> feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a
> co-traveler...
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM <avri@doria.org
> <mailto:avri@do= ria.org>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as= far as it has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0come.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue wit= h this draft.=C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is= interested in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0part of an editorial effort to take it toward compl= etion.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avri
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Thanks for all the great reviews and comments.= It is great to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see a lot of new energy on this draft.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are no= t the best persons
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to integrate the proposed changes, so we would like= to take a step
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0back a lead authors and hope that others will step = forward to take
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the lead to take this RG document further.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> If there are no others who want to work as co-= authors, perhaps
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the reviewers (and RG participants and others) coul= d propose
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0alternate text either in attached markdown document= , or as pull
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requests on github (
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://= github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.md
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0)?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Thanks in advance,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Niels and Gisela
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= hrpc@irtf.org <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/hrpc
>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology
> [https:/= /www..c= dt.org <https://www.cdt.org>]
> 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
> e: joe@cdt.org &l= t;mailto:joe@cdt.org&g= t;, p: 202.407.8825, pgp:
> https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
> Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 =C2=A01607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 >
>
> _______________________________________________
> hrpc mailing list
> hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc

_______________________________________________
hrpc mailing list
hrpc@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc
--000000000000c048eb05890298c9-- From nobody Thu May 16 08:36:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D1D12022A for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:36:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Pz-fT8JT5v7 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gn.apc.org (mail.gn.apc.org [37.220.108.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFD7D120229 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.gn.apc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEA3203D314; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:36:30 +0100 (BST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mail.gn.apc.org Received: from mail.gn.apc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.gn.apc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CZ4mpakDzrsj; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:36:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from anonymous ([10.254.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: avri) by mail.gn.apc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C67A7203A160; Thu, 16 May 2019 16:36:19 +0100 (BST) To: =?UTF-8?Q?St=c3=a9phane_Couture?= , Joseph Lorenzo Hall Cc: hrpc@irtf.org References: <27c2964d-e533-9ea3-bacf-763afe9111ee@nielstenoever.net> <9b24f9c1-c8dc-16e2-ce3d-e1749828ddab@doria.org> From: avri doria Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avri@apc.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFJXhnsBCADCE9YSMulYfOUptnfTF1uwP2BRzUq87CAUacN6N5H5k8lNffqEXmgI+QWC njF7OwJ71rQLVYV3sIlpCQU9UyQfLHZDZoqV1d+aAJhgmmG6XtSReUi4jgAvsLzj+HkJSSqU 4voepwXs5k2DgRONAXojxvV5rFExDNqz4fn1zj2jf0SMTbCBkhHw1HQ6WXqW5T73LNbEUVys yEJBb+3+ITCVPTeVm7P/dXIEnsIsRVW8yeYoo1+E+jbPJ0OqHXtrWTdqqlU1CUHBgGWEFIIM qT//XVO0Kck8qyir7wqXb37fhSAkw32ZAKrd2NFrq71qk9Yj+SLtgxxqjGVLcbh3WVfRABEB AAG0GWF2cmkgZG9yaWEgPGF2cmlAYXBjLm9yZz6JATkEEwECACMCGy8HCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJ CgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCWb5voAAKCRDVqemiyf8Pp4DxB/0VpTyM+PeQjwybFNWW5KPQtNSn fvwZEq8KdD0SLuJs5Qch0sK5FJZVS6onR+3oOUYMrDycUWDnUzlZsG09viwVwh1yWF0L9zdh 5KEyfkEWxBFvVcgxWp3uBY0OnVrbs70E5H+afchx2KHauhD9sYdIkbwNMGvGSTsnt3pOJsGh XlDQFWknj0pOZUVTTyTv7AW7r3iDosc/qvetvVDSOqtkaUaSMOXXaX4VfZ9yZppMvH742Mao DY8eYLk75jtsrMFchgTgTnghOU72iNqtT6UzR4V3G4b6BA6nnB0wPTprCNFEi4xJ+ZNHST8M p3VDJJ8qirY634b4IHRQGgglsvpquQENBFJXhnsBCAC9oZ7Y7fdMQOI/cnhbxTAJhKhv6yI9 MN131d20LAwVFHR+K1Zd0kj6e6wTYXu3axjfkoED9pSeoXIpEcX2RI/Q509P/REazDKju0mF Ewek8fLyKKpsv0+J6h6VZZwk8oscSQ2qIVB7U5DdwRInv/z5TJyAtrV7fSUTF0kwKt5a1Kdp kcw1wVmS4T1VKselKNzDB9ZmoKvPPKYjSQEHX/z/r0rmso1cD8rhuhxBHRvuUNNOkHmUCnwG Yp2qtyAhMoplmWy1mUQuW8Nuj2TisSAlCjQNYQGiIcODiqxrCkQkzo+HDeU+q6/8I868MLMc qcVIhGnP+21cIBL+Tv/k4qQJABEBAAGJAj4EGAECAAkCGy4FAlm+b6ABKcBdIAQZAQIABgUC UleGewAKCRDqPi/LQnt+h072B/0V6xovIpgrx6Lu1EvqbmudcE0K1oIc+pxGmr7RUfpOcB63 +1nY8RHQ2iZ29GGZIuSIhMqoRxKvU29CTAsnuK84Fqb3dWfCSdhV5mPBI7kWYNbD99278ZtY TO6rDwk1l859Xh2N4ucwHbRBJNIforC5hLrhVoRjcM8m9AQv4fOGB8par+/2zKx1MwrZFCnT tlcdFvHvxFlA3yyZx7b0xU09RP5KDp1hKyX5ioathuqzL9d17FO76/QFmerwwN89qLAh1pAN oJIVO08B6j5GPRz6HpFF5Uf59dYwUvScMeA57Mne6amkR8aMkanxFk4vCRfjfl8wt27n9xt2 7ltwQ5jXCRDVqemiyf8Pp/vMB/9HUlA3G5LPeX7VmrSFhV3baHzk3sS749d3R/QVmksuzkAy mtTfN/LU7EVSzjKRdwJm5KjVg6nRd+x3Fkk/Wjvz4vL0hRrSG1Rw++GhVBtz5TTgbJWXmvht lFFdlkl2T4k3IvCC9phfIa7fdi3BP+AGml4d+XfJ4KY8dwqiJBaDFB1RANYsnuWC/ho6hUd0 dgDC4cCvzbvbsPnEiUKnmac5BrpT3eBnHMY/GDC0CImcDEzyEXloEhE6IUZs8ktOGeskONsX L6FG0OpS11tH4zTUwXA/d4Z5TpNcX/nfbcd374oDK5MW1Rjcfzm/dqERsM+t555z4A6GaJLW V5shyIdh Message-ID: <563cc37d-eac1-1b20-bdb4-86a0dcd5e73d@apc.org> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 11:36:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 190516-2, 05/16/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association-02 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:36:35 -0000 Hi, I think that sounds splendid. To both of you, please let Mallory and me know how we can help. thanks avri On 16-May-19 11:05, Stéphane Couture wrote: > Hi all, > > Mallory have asked me recently to act as editor, as way to contribute > to the group. I was hesitant to do it alone, but I'd be happy to be > "co-traveler" on this, if Joseph and others agree.  > > I also made comments on the draft, but for some reasons, my document > didn't save, so I need to write them again. I'll send them asap. > > Best, > > Stéphane > > Le jeu. 16 mai 2019 à 10:50, avri doria > a écrit : > > Hi, > > Thank you. > > Any takers on the role of co-traveler? > > thanks > > avri > > > On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > > I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the flurry of > > feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a > > co-traveler... > > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM > > >> wrote: > > > >     Hi, > > > >     Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as far as > it has > >     come. > > > >     Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue with this > draft.  > >     Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is > interested in > >     being > >     part of an editorial effort to take it toward completion. > > > >     Thanks > > > >     avri > > > > > >     On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote: > >     > Thanks for all the great reviews and comments. It is great to > >     see a lot of new energy on this draft. > >     > > >     > As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are not the best > persons > >     to integrate the proposed changes, so we would like to take > a step > >     back a lead authors and hope that others will step forward > to take > >     the lead to take this RG document further. > >     > > >     > If there are no others who want to work as co-authors, perhaps > >     the reviewers (and RG participants and others) could propose > >     alternate text either in attached markdown document, or as pull > >     requests on github ( > >    >  https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.md > >     )? > >     > > >     > Thanks in advance, > >     > > >     > Niels and Gisela > >     > > >     > > > > >     _______________________________________________ > >     hrpc mailing list > >     hrpc@irtf.org > > >     https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > > > > > > -- > > Joseph Lorenzo Hall > > Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology > > [https://www..cdt.org ] > > 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 > > e: joe@cdt.org >, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: > > https://josephhall.org/gpg-key > > Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hrpc mailing list > > hrpc@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > From nobody Fri May 17 08:21:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DC5120110 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:21:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JEHiDl0UydAP for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homere.koumbit.net (homere.koumbit.net [199.58.80.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F246A120198 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-f49.google.com (mail-wr1-f49.google.com [209.85.221.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: steph@stephcouture.info) by homere.koumbit.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2D1D1E425DD for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-f49.google.com with SMTP id d9so7614979wrx.0 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:21:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXGAcyDvvDRIsXyNX1H5e5zVeaboMNqaIl3hFlu+HJRxKJyhOnB OodAM0sS/dqrZKPrFrBafeNGcsYMptXK8/hnZ8Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwHhwCVJa7GSpG0uuuqB9u+G1EjQ28RvZYYCHw6G4e4SOHq/ZNoBlJnJMHvlk0tyyxm1cOw4n3DEmhk4te6yuo= X-Received: by 2002:adf:db82:: with SMTP id u2mr33538119wri.316.1558106499948; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <27c2964d-e533-9ea3-bacf-763afe9111ee@nielstenoever.net> <9b24f9c1-c8dc-16e2-ce3d-e1749828ddab@doria.org> <563cc37d-eac1-1b20-bdb4-86a0dcd5e73d@apc.org> In-Reply-To: <563cc37d-eac1-1b20-bdb4-86a0dcd5e73d@apc.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Couture?= Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 11:21:28 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: avri doria Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Couture?= , Joseph Lorenzo Hall , hrpc@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073a9a2058916f090" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association-02 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 15:21:54 -0000 --00000000000073a9a2058916f090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, So, as I mentioned in my last email, I re-read the document and am now sharing some comments. Forgive me if my style is too academic. 1. As it was mentioned earlier (by Avri I think), I think the stated goal of the document to "establish the causal link" is too strong. The notion of "causality" usually refers to a quantitative approach (for instance using regression analysis). The analysis provided in this document is in my view fundamentally qualitative, and I do not see how it can support a strong claim of causality. I also have to say that I come from the field of Science and Technology Studies, where causal relationships have been strongly debunked in favor of more complex relationships, so I am a bit doubtful about the term here. 2. The document is also saying that RFC8280, "established either causal or deterministic relationships,=E2=80=9D but I don't see mention of "causal" i= n RFC820, but maybe I am wrong here. 3. There are many places we go too quickly from "machine communication" to "human communication,=E2=80=9D and from "computing interoperability" to "hu= man association.=E2=80=9D For instance, at the end of the paper, it is written = that "This lack of interoperation is harming the ability of people to set or negotiate their own terms on which they would like to assemble or associate.=E2=80=9D However, many authors (and activists) are still praisin= g proprietary social media for their capacity to facilitate assembly and collective action. And on the other hand, more interoperable platforms sometime lack user-friendliness or a wider user base to allow a wide range of people to participate. So, there might be other variables than "interoperability" to take into account to see how technologies facilitate association. On this, I think the last sentence should be unfolded : "The use of social-media platforms has enabled groups to associate, but it has also rendered users unable to change platforms, therefore leading to a sort of =E2=80=9Cforced association=E2=80=9D that inhibits people to fully = exercise their freedom of assembly and association.=E2=80=9D What is a "forced association" ? Why is the inability to change platforms necessarily "leading" to "forced association" ? If there is a causal link to be made, I would think it is here. 4. Concerning the flow of the argument, it would be good to explain how, or why, each of these cases were chosen. It is stated that a "purposive sampling approach, aimed at the typicality and paradigmatic nature of the cases" was chosen, but I think there would be a need for better explanation on the "typicality and paradigmatic nature" of each of the cases. 5. Again, on the flow of the argument, it would be good to add a sentence at the end of each of the cases to explain how it is related to freedom of association. For many of them, we have to guess it. I also made some more specific comments in the document that I could share for the rewriting the new version. Best, St=C3=A9phane Le jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0 11:36, avri doria a =C3=A9crit : > Hi, > > I think that sounds splendid. > > To both of you, please let Mallory and me know how we can help. > > thanks > > avri > > > On 16-May-19 11:05, St=C3=A9phane Couture wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Mallory have asked me recently to act as editor, as way to contribute > > to the group. I was hesitant to do it alone, but I'd be happy to be > > "co-traveler" on this, if Joseph and others agree. > > > > I also made comments on the draft, but for some reasons, my document > > didn't save, so I need to write them again. I'll send them asap. > > > > Best, > > > > St=C3=A9phane > > > > Le jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0 10:50, avri doria > > a =C3=A9crit : > > > > Hi, > > > > Thank you. > > > > Any takers on the role of co-traveler? > > > > thanks > > > > avri > > > > > > On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > > > I'm definitely interested in helping incorporate the flurry of > > > feedback this draft received before IETF 104. I would love a > > > co-traveler... > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Thanks to you and to Gisela for taking the draft as far as > > it has > > > come. > > > > > > Mallory and I will discuss how best to continue with this > > draft. > > > Definitely interested in hearing from anyone who is > > interested in > > > being > > > part of an editorial effort to take it toward completion. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > avri > > > > > > > > > On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels ten Oever wrote: > > > > Thanks for all the great reviews and comments. It is great = to > > > see a lot of new energy on this draft. > > > > > > > > As mentioned, Gisela and I feel like we are not the best > > persons > > > to integrate the proposed changes, so we would like to take > > a step > > > back a lead authors and hope that others will step forward > > to take > > > the lead to take this RG document further. > > > > > > > > If there are no others who want to work as co-authors, > perhaps > > > the reviewers (and RG participants and others) could propose > > > alternate text either in attached markdown document, or as pu= ll > > > requests on github ( > > > > > > https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.md > > > )? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > > > Niels and Gisela > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > hrpc mailing list > > > hrpc@irtf.org > > > > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Joseph Lorenzo Hall > > > Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology > > > [https://www..cdt.org ] > > > 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 > > > e: joe@cdt.org > >, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: > > > https://josephhall.org/gpg-key > > > Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > hrpc mailing list > > > hrpc@irtf.org > > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hrpc mailing list > > hrpc@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > --00000000000073a9a2058916f090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,


So, as I mentioned in my last email, I re-read t= he document and am now sharing some comments. Forgive me if my style is too= academic.


1. As it was mentioned earlier (by Avri I think), I t= hink the stated goal of the document to "establish the causal link&quo= t; is too strong. The notion of "causality" usually refers to a q= uantitative approach (for instance using regression analysis). The analysis= provided in this document is in my view fundamentally qualitative, and I d= o not see how it can support a strong claim of causality. I also have to sa= y that I come from the field of Science and Technology Studies, where causa= l relationships have been strongly debunked in favor of more complex relati= onships, so I am a bit doubtful about the term here.


2. The document is also saying that RFC8280, "es= tablished either causal or deterministic relationships,=E2=80=9D but I don&= #39;t see mention of "causal" in RFC820, but maybe I am wrong her= e.


3. There are many places we go too quickly from "= ;machine communication" to "human communication,=E2=80=9D and fro= m "computing interoperability" to "human association.=E2=80= =9D For instance, at the end of the paper, it is written that "This la= ck of interoperation is harming the ability of people to set or negotiate t= heir own terms on which they would like to assemble or associate.=E2=80=9D = However, many authors (and activists) are still praising proprietary social= media for their capacity to facilitate assembly and collective action. And= on the other hand, more interoperable platforms sometime lack user-friendl= iness or a wider user base to allow a wide range of people to participate. = So, there might be other variables than "interoperability" to tak= e into account to see how technologies facilitate association.


On this, I think the last sentence should be unfolded= :


"The use of social-media platforms has enabled g= roups to associate, but it has also rendered users unable to change platfor= ms, therefore leading to a sort of =E2=80=9Cforced association=E2=80=9D tha= t inhibits people to fully exercise their freedom of assembly and associati= on.=E2=80=9D


What is a "forced association" ? Why is the= inability to change platforms necessarily "leading" to "for= ced association" ? If there is a causal link to be made, I would think= it is here.


4. Concerning the flow of the argument, it would be g= ood to explain how, or why, each of these cases were chosen. It is stated t= hat a "purposive sampling approach, aimed at the typicality and paradi= gmatic nature of the cases" was chosen, but I think there would be a n= eed for better explanation on the "typicality and paradigmatic nature&= quot; of each of the cases.


5. Again, on the flow of the argument, it would be go= od to add a sentence at the end of each of the cases to explain how it is r= elated to freedom of association. For many of them, we have to guess it.


I also made some more specific comments in the docume= nt that I could share for the rewriting the new version.


Best,


St=C3=A9phane



Le=C2=A0jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A011:36, avri doria <avri@apc.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hi,

I think that sounds splendid.

To both of you, please let Mallory and me know how we can help.

thanks

avri


On 16-May-19 11:05, St=C3=A9phane Couture wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Mallory have asked me recently to act as editor, as way to contribute<= br> > to the group. I was hesitant to do it alone, but I'd be happy to b= e
> "co-traveler" on this, if Joseph and others agree.=C2=A0
>
> I also made comments on the draft, but for some reasons, my document > didn't save, so I need to write them again. I'll send them asa= p.
>
> Best,
>
> St=C3=A9phane
>
> Le=C2=A0jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A010:50, avri doria <avri@apc.org
> <mailto:avri@apc.= org>> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any takers on the role of co-traveler?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thanks
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avri
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> I'm definitely interested in helping incor= porate the flurry of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> feedback this draft received before IETF 104. = I would love a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> co-traveler...
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM <avri@doria.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:avri@doria.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> <mailto:avri@doria.org <mailto:avri@doria.org>>> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks to you and to Gisela= for taking the draft as far as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it has
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0come.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mallory and I will discuss = how best to continue with this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft.=C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Definitely interested in he= aring from anyone who is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interested in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0being
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0part of an editorial effort= to take it toward completion.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avri
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels t= en Oever wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Thanks for all the gre= at reviews and comments. It is great to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see a lot of new energy on = this draft.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> As mentioned, Gisela a= nd I feel like we are not the best
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0persons
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to integrate the proposed c= hanges, so we would like to take
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a step
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0back a lead authors and hop= e that others will step forward
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to take
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the lead to take this RG do= cument further.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> If there are no others= who want to work as co-authors, perhaps
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the reviewers (and RG parti= cipants and others) could propose
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0alternate text either in at= tached markdown document, or as pull
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requests on github (
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0ht= tps://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-association.md
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0)?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Thanks in advance,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Niels and Gisela
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0___________________________= ____________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc@irtf.org <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org> <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://ww= w.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> --
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy &= Technology
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> [https://www..cdt.org <http://cdt.org> <https://www.cdt.org>= ;]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> e: joe@cdt.org <mailto:joe@cdt.org> <mailto:joe@cdt.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:joe@cdt.org>>, p: 202.407.8825, pgp:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 =C2=A016= 07 5F86 6987 40A9 A871
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> ______________________________________________= _
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> hrpc mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> hrpc@irtf.org <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/= listinfo/hrpc
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= hrpc@irtf.org <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/hrpc
>

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--00000000000073a9a2058916f090-- From nobody Fri May 17 08:39:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D6112039E for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:39:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oe26IXE5FQ0m for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 445ED1200DE for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRewh-0002Ls-IA for hrpc@irtf.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 17:39:25 +0200 To: hrpc@irtf.org References: <4f0fe201-61fb-d039-3f3d-5b9258302afe@briarproject.org> From: Niels ten Oever Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mail@nielstenoever.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFgpcR0BEACnfvNwTMlN+pyZT0AFYhWqxG3N4AoPIeNfbxLQH7dk8ZL7Ls05xtORfnu9 ovoaRrZpDufkMviUFidNYePbQNdgf63vWVgwpQR7utluwWraetcmZOu6tayJuyBK2b6d2Z23 MJAQxfa2/GMlN3QkvobaoyKtgbc8rOCgNla7WwkgtiVJ89xbAUHXPFpKWZluVRjaFh4p5C5r 7E5OvUiEGLQ5Cn2ir2PGIyIVqjB+hLTyaI6dIGCz2jtL0RATjmsmYUX7UkU/pz8MPPC2BJ5P KU9pdXMRBhAStxcph8vCo2ze9xSi3+1/5A2ULVtvO4s0hZ+exbTfMxMg3H5CCRFEEJXlQEXa Cd0ZHvqcv5xq8n9w/Ccd0CqYWATIwyP8Jlzd+BY3QGTWnWlgoAbs3Guh/pFYhEFNuuAF5Jk1 k5OlNGsRE/LQJmbT5SE7AtLJLbWewcHlEyIH+K6J8uVa4ExLXmRy+eRkFaxjGy3fLlUpy1Ee 1kU7VsQ/TZ8g8ujsMzxqsdB6y0TD/kVlWaDqPL6F+b+pm3lAuCBGWM1YZROTG58R6pD7sNVm i0ift4dIttAsg+2KoShm9A8kQ3tACXZDgNPC0l7VOqnVayjnF0RmjGeiX7PjOcLQCZ9a5wAH 5mrXMaKvfszqAVkP9HSrk1QVZOipF6vEimL43Czy7Rp1aUaUwwARAQABtChOaWVscyB0ZW4g T2V2ZXIgPG1haWxAbmllbHN0ZW5vZXZlci5uZXQ+iQJZBBMBCABDAhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcD AgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQQkWAtwXEr9ipSIZDoO2D86RorIswUCWyJaFgIZAQAK CRAO2D86RorIs8I2D/wNc4kT+dRC3Y9lSygeVWuxNj21z/QlbNvfXx9NicgBx4uCjsCm0ZhS 6qnp0uHYZYr8rdIzrL3GazyEuG9uvNzZBvIHm92UY1x0NH0TOVbGwJCWKULStvg9S+DjmNgp x8XM9amCtuXZyCiESeoOVRUanzD1JIidJtKgDfxvC63kqYoXl3azP0ra2nZbpktMm2fW5YdN D6kp6otjBH/jtpLay1CpVDS2Ehl3rLXJVUu96hlBnQB8q+64qyhTZ23HnbU+ib5Zb3OFgYoB KHjukJ4tV4x9rQprCQeirKX627vcNniDPnMp/nr9Qww6iVidX2vsG/22cx8MqLfs4B9tOVCJ Ft9D7MOwxOWgKnaYvrPZBOEmnuGq7btQe1tQZukL1Z83jKkV/e43k1gJaRt4Nl3/6YYCAlnn aQwRmySxznojsEl+X41UaJ6QFcoCphucOHoO9MeVzuNzgOgodXXEvlA8OJAqxRbE5AqB0leJ z1PfyrF1lsy8ETPRGKUKPBVed1vpZCQBfd/5RksOYBGhyfQ8p0w0hGs8SG6Xl6UtorJ+baLZ ZtnYbakfroxQBsF4bD/0P4fZ8wvTUDNLT8WN/9KFoTXrKn2pTLD+V9iw6nQAH4LSPw0G8XsL ce3Ihkf/2bvorGCUO7YXG4u6FPzEHsa/ZNfWHA5kbpGfwe2OVYNeI7kCDQRYKXEdARAAxYOE 3/AFmEfQ0SVVFujYFhZKX+BGXolYytC2a1soZogVYTIIlypxkRtN+ljteFAY3xX/El7cx5Fx j+uXvLKAm9xQRI/DCug7/NGULMk9bDK5bzSGw817cyiL5Kb+0RkWj2Y5ArOAK6XPGBZWZTHw yIawsSCN9AhDXZQWVRqkR1QXcq3IYKl+OHWMO7+1VfixCSakNf7T/Kiq46rQEPW8Eghk6CVO BR8xUCBbyk5aRW4VSGO6pUD3H21ur+5fTLsVyan1NHhxNNiXfnEJKr+JI5dXSkj7WqA5n8IT aNdFSAttkdT56wAQpxE2h8zaOmBaFUWQ4D8SdXDVymP5QMtLG+ItMMiNV6kXgsRFugAKM5yZ tPP9gIX+ic8QO5iuct37bRXJU/rmrH54Ab0kyAeeRE7oSsfTZPKvgtUh7VLAUEw/wy6TORJH E8JMaX0yYT6h4PGRS3mNM4bka8hjdfcrexI0zSqFOl2I22zQlG3YqSzIvVh98W67hxfAIaCV aTfJLFPEru3drxNwi6ogdkRmcLGKqqTgeYItrvITyFvzqbrcO2exp0KKEK3cDIZypqHHUf4+ uPlDtuExehLsNOMpjP8qhZpFtyLeDS07qunbvstcyvR30wOJ3DyAbHGzq739UyDcO9Jt5jwO DyVwk3MK5Em4pJ0+IAJx+F6gta0Bk2MAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWClxHQIbDAUJCWYBgAAK CRAO2D86RorIs0ykD/4t151SZG9MbeKRVKbs9Ecjady9bO0L3oBos4rhqY12ha8smFlsUzvb gB4CtkBuXQlq+plOBWv+rFEThOzy3bezgEDjlxycoO1W2wJD6E7Fo9fkHT6UOm9fQBkuKRqK 83OGnfM02qP1Ky8d7EoZz+nTSMf/DJgWw1YRKrXkMHBwKD83lCENsmePWE5AjMqk8cojPv9O y1wWy6fHjwx3r+wQSokBNfxgQyAFonmgBbhlic/pZUYRSIcldyUlaomrjFfr4egzmNE7aWDv LwOUYKevBIeJJcqTyfAn3TtJbPCEHOC2+lP6EcmPFyhQdiia+RqOClumqbWOPeQ2VM8j7NWv KKmBNBB5OJ/rmHogbNU+wWPJ723qMBoOp1jIwFNkQhx01W6v55VMwLr+IuBKY1ggJ2BhwQiG pWv4tMc5oB/qVh3my1VO65ErcJ3S9blpwJdDj5/YDOU7BKEmpRUP+xkaryNzH2x7FzrOOHzJ BX6jeYZabGvnTicQlBAzfGpblFqV3YN6EhCF2AHmGLTZ/DrjGYToIsW8cXlEMqN4u8ODEUY0 OhbnytnopKJKk99bwMoCqDkfQvT3LKDWtZj9NzFndfuoKXsVpwAitrG0mau0/16DKDyVWdtJ 9DYmtE40zO6g70VVxUj+dKt2hbJTy/KQTb7Ijhw7wZrGp/P7nhbVyA== Message-ID: <7ae465a9-c26a-192e-cc21-387db87b5632@nielstenoever.net> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 17:38:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated-As-Hash: f1842a279235a42f6aa2a2a81130733515c5a4ec X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 3ced5df4177ef3a93a84b902ce7c160e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] Review of draft-irtf-hrpc-political-01 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 15:39:35 -0000 Hi Joe, Thanks a lot for this review, I have accepted and integrated almost everything, which has led to a far more modest research question and conclusion. I have just a few nits: On 3/28/19 8:43 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > This provides a useful list of past IETF RFCs that had to struggle with non-engineering factors in standards setting, but then says, "Recently there has been an increased discussion on the relation between Internet protocols and human rights [RFC8280]", pointing to the HRPC IRTF RFC... I think this needs to qualify that this discussion had happened in the IRTF and not ubiquitously across the IETF. It has also been the topic of a tech plenary talk [0], so I think one can say it has been discussed, no? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvgIX3-pAZE > + > Would be great to find a more plain language way of saying "affordances". I'm not convinced the definition in the terminology section is comprehensible to engineers. ("The possibilities that are provided to an actors through the ordering of an environment by a technology.") Personally I think affordances are quite an essential term, exactly because it bridges technological determinism and social constructivism, but I tried to add more explanation to the glossary. > o > Section 4: > o > + > This needs to be clear this discussion has happened at IRTF, not IETF or needs to cite more evidence: "Nonetheless there has been a recent uptick in discussions around the impact of Internet protocols on human rights [RFC8280] in the IETF and more general about the impact of technology on society in the public debate." I think this debate has both taken place at the plenary, as well as at ietf@ietf, and has not been limited to hrpc. > + > This section is unclear in terms of if these are all academic or IETF-external views... the intro to this section seems to overclaim about what the reader should expect. E.g., 4.2 and 4.3 have no references; are any of these themes from community interviews or solely from the literature? 'This document aims to provide an overview of the spectrum of different positions that have been observed in the IETF and IRTF community.' But I have added: , and have been observed during interviews, mailinglist exchanges, and during research group sessions. > + > # > This doesn't seem to reference interviews at all, so maybe clarify this is from academic and other literature? > + > Would be great to find a more simple term than "conurbation". Taken straight from the self-description by Andrew Sullivan! > + > 4.3: this is perhaps a minor point, but even horse-powered vehicle culture at scale would require these things, so it's not self-evident this claim is true: "But even if that did not happen, widespread automobile use requires paved roads, and parking lots and structures.  These are pressures that come from the automotive technology itself, and would not arise without that technology." (I don't think this undermines the point being made here, but it's distracting.) Again, same as above. I did not want to impinge on self-description of different positions. > + > 4.5: the entire paragraph about the numbered Postman arguments is pretty opaque and needs the authors to unpack that or is not relevant to engineers. I think you can delete this graph without much effect. I propose I make this a numbered list, to increase readability. But I do think it adds something because it makes an important point on different kind of biases. As said, all other points I have integrated and sought to address, and I made the conclusion a lot less forward leaning. Greatly looking forward to hear what you think! Best, Niels -- Niels ten Oever Researcher and PhD Candidate DATACTIVE Research Group University of Amsterdam PGP fingerprint 2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488 643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3 From nobody Fri May 17 08:41:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@irtf.org Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3E2120026; Fri, 17 May 2019 08:41:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: hrpc@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hrpc@irtf.org Message-ID: <155810770809.26266.7969582032908863356@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 08:41:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03.txt X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 15:41:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Human Rights Protocol Considerations RG of the IRTF. Title : Notes on networking standards and politics Author : Niels ten Oever Filename : draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2019-05-17 Abstract: The IETF cannot ordain what standards or protocols are to be used on networks, but the standards development process in the IETF does have an impact on society through its normative standards setting process. Among other things, the IETF's work affects what is perceived as technologically possible and useful where networking technologies are being deployed, and its standards reflect what is considered by the technical community to be feasible and good practice. Whereas there might not be agreement among the Internet protocol community on the specific political nature of the technological development process and its outputs, it is undisputed that standards and protocols are both products of a political process, and they can also be used for political means. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-political/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri May 17 23:14:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66C812004C; Fri, 17 May 2019 23:14:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cis-india.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UWK3nbZNfKwp; Fri, 17 May 2019 23:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30EA01200F4; Fri, 17 May 2019 23:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRsbM-0003w6-4B; Sat, 18 May 2019 08:14:18 +0200 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cis-india.org 9F0D3580B7B59 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cis-india.org; s=6F901CFA-19A8-11E9-98F1-CB07954443DB; t=1558159965; bh=2IPlNEIwF4GXLDOWhxeVD0AdiZBqCxA6qiejB0TSeyw=; h=From:To:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version; b=og2pOYTl01NpTYeVNf9vVZ3Ny0IWPQ602yi2TkzMRb485WFXAVfrZJIB6eVGM8pNB 1e7q3f0770Nwqvww4jXNGosz2rdkEnuZZAE6pDvG+jlAEuE9tTtWEa9v0ep2RBOleN 0qNQ1zc7zPh783tuxN+rX0KfDOSoPSyn7+V1p5saLQMPAaL5pR90x34BnUUs0E/gNf xfFvqLpc/hPugP3Zu/PD4JQeLlg/w3FgPmGKO/HXyggTn115kDE6MQOphlJ7S65ei3 BX9XEPyTpilcwZ0Djwm4YSj3cWz+TAeF5AQZFJvggiUBQE6JpJ4IkKY5H/T37S14QA OyPMI7zBAqfwA== From: Gurshabad Grover To: Shivan Sahib , Stephen Farrell Cc: Stan Adams , Nick Feamster , pearg@irtf.org, Joseph Lorenzo Hall , "hrpc@irtf.org" References: Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=gurshabad@cis-india.org; 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Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 919fae14bc17c74543a025539baad412 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech: move to hrpc? X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 06:14:25 -0000 [+hrpc] On 18/05/19 2:30 AM, Shivan Sahib wrote: >=20 > The suggestion to include censorship-countering techniques came up > because of the concern that as the draft stands, it would not fall unde= r > PEARG's charter. Happy to hear disagreements about that though.=C2=A0=C2= =A0 >=20 I was going to suggest that this document be taken to hrpc since it squarely falls under 2/3 charter goals [0] of that rg. A quick search seems to suggest that this draft was not taken up as an hrpc rg document only because it was hoped at the time that the draft will become an AD-sponsored IETF draft. [1] If that is not happening (hope I'm not missing some more context), I think this draft is more suitable for the hrpc rg. -GG. [0] "To expose the relation between protocols and human rights [...]"; and "[t]o increase the awareness [...] on the importance of the technical workings of the Internet and its impact on human rights." [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/pon2lsx1UFjMQCtZpmLUarEZq4= Q From nobody Sat May 18 00:04:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC8C120152 for ; Sat, 18 May 2019 00:04:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nomountain-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hSTEsNZa8d54 for ; Sat, 18 May 2019 00:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3087212004C for ; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uQA4Ov6HGrp7ShtJjHeeOfmbnpXjyXxgS" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech: move to hrpc? X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 07:04:14 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --uQA4Ov6HGrp7ShtJjHeeOfmbnpXjyXxgS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Tfn5yRxvwZHocuRzg8x0xgne8b9YGQIuY"; protected-headers="v1" From: Melinda Shore To: hrpc@irtf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [hrpc] [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech: move to hrpc? References: In-Reply-To: --Tfn5yRxvwZHocuRzg8x0xgne8b9YGQIuY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/17/19 10:13 PM, Gurshabad Grover wrote: > If that is not happening (hope I'm not missing some more context), I > think this draft is more suitable for the hrpc rg. Wearing no hats ... I just reread the draft and I think it's an excellent piece of work that ought to be published, but I do not think it is particularly suitable as a research group product (either pearg or hrpc). Let's find out why it hasn't moved forward so far and do what we can to remedy that, rather than using the IRTF to route around IETF roadblocks. Melinda --=20 Software longa, hardware brevis PGP key fingerprint 4F68 2D93 2A17 96F8 20F2 34C0 DFB8 9172 9A76 DB8F --Tfn5yRxvwZHocuRzg8x0xgne8b9YGQIuY-- --uQA4Ov6HGrp7ShtJjHeeOfmbnpXjyXxgS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEET2gtkyoXlvgg8jTA37iRcpp2248FAlzfrmgACgkQ37iRcpp2 24+g+A/9GlDuc3JNneChPyBOmZmAu0mfV1a5F6ttVQPpuQ9IcxTIiQexgcW9xWAG xoJMVcWC5tVEX1SIlN/ZZdRFtrik/sRtICnu/bBTf2gjPsWTmTeVQqhDV0lMJyvi W5uWWjcQV1LDIJi8wBwQEcOyjEjwJNCo/tBNGUZo/lqGAafipbMQAa4URsPZrwPj vLz5OlosAsSbOVVD5lOm9ALalepQ9fezkuUMGGpohPVlFavBw9DcaFYKGhW0ekFJ 13P71BrvDsnDziQlCUIGze6hqTiJZyuySYYWIQnW8nf0RypYg/v8QAA1//Acp4M3 iHt8HtSKyqsQZaHpxIc+T7QbPG8TvWEqcgmDWpzUDS2qMJYlXgLRXLYZ03qGjugF 9Nryur8pn7BgBYgwxwaxAx3bN6WaMGW8XmVcIa4Z6Cq3UsOHdXCiNFpsTtSXNu6y NBWPXcybFn+dcTQJnbSgDiDImg9YmSI7RyLhF//pkzcfQdNpJi4bkd9HbhpQGAnA EtAfEl7W3/C/2G3asEOitMATKt1Tk6XkriKFJ8fslw/Bw9Pnt1DKOGWV9Yq+F0Yx +FaYHJ7vgBnXZohVJuMk3UVZCA/yRaXd0RhZTzRhmsFZFuZfAI52iGG3azg8AZnm asOU5FX5P4LjCLevE30ISIX20q8L/x+AQ4E6BstMOvjtI9z+rR4= =8I+r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uQA4Ov6HGrp7ShtJjHeeOfmbnpXjyXxgS-- From nobody Sat May 18 00:37:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520C81202B1 for ; Sat, 18 May 2019 00:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VvD17-hQDFIX for ; Sat, 18 May 2019 00:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 077EA1200B6 for ; Sat, 18 May 2019 00:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59DDBE51; Sat, 18 May 2019 08:37:18 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TB3d2hPQW3p3; Sat, 18 May 2019 08:37:17 +0100 (IST) Received: from [100.64.5.61] (unknown [212.129.73.91]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41103BE50; Sat, 18 May 2019 08:37:17 +0100 (IST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1558165037; bh=yOYUMJ9y4SvDlGlxc7gBo4PjVscFeJsto08z6agFeKs=; h=To:Cc:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=fvn1VQhGg5k8XeaSawpmIicnibUEMYZ1qW3MjCDX1jnEyYjCgPqcuIGAzgc+3l+7o nGzdOmkeJNJf8AwBgF86eb8xQ7k82xRnqLzaAs0lsCVWIony9se2v1btkzQIIiSD/v RGliidQCXGqSo4Ff2vo6owqntsQjEdTynes4V3BU= X-Priority: 3 To: melinda.shore@nomountain.net Cc: hrpc@irtf.org From: stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 07:37:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5ziz8e.provu5.rtdbnh-qmf@mercury.scss.tcd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] [Pearg] descriptive censorship work: draft-hall-censorship-tech: move to hrpc? X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 07:37:25 -0000 DQoNCk9uIFNhdHVyZGF5LCAxOCBNYXkgMjAxOSwgTWVsaW5kYSBTaG9yZSB3cm90ZToNCj4gT24g NS8xNy8xOSAxMDoxMyBQTSwgR3Vyc2hhYmFkIEdyb3ZlciB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiBJZiB0aGF0IGlz IG5vdCBoYXBwZW5pbmcgKGhvcGUgSSdtIG5vdCBtaXNzaW5nIHNvbWUgbW9yZSBjb250ZXh0KSwg SQ0KPiA+IHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgaXMgbW9yZSBzdWl0YWJsZSBmb3IgdGhlIGhycGMgcmcu DQo+IA0KPiBXZWFyaW5nIG5vIGhhdHMgLi4uICBJIGp1c3QgcmVyZWFkIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhbmQg SSB0aGluayBpdCdzDQo+IGFuIGV4Y2VsbGVudCBwaWVjZSBvZiB3b3JrIHRoYXQgb3VnaHQgdG8g YmUgcHVibGlzaGVkLCBidXQgSQ0KPiBkbyBub3QgdGhpbmsgaXQgaXMgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5IHN1 aXRhYmxlIGFzIGEgcmVzZWFyY2ggZ3JvdXANCj4gcHJvZHVjdCAoZWl0aGVyIHBlYXJnIG9yIGhy cGMpLiAgTGV0J3MgZmluZCBvdXQgd2h5IGl0IGhhc24ndA0KPiBtb3ZlZCBmb3J3YXJkIHNvIGZh ciBhbmQgZG8gd2hhdCB3ZSBjYW4gdG8gcmVtZWR5IHRoYXQsIHJhdGhlcg0KPiB0aGFuIHVzaW5n IHRoZSBJUlRGIHRvIHJvdXRlIGFyb3VuZCBJRVRGIHJvYWRibG9ja3MuDQo+DQoNCkkgZG9uJ3Qg IHJlY2FsbCBJRVRGIHJvYWRibG9ja3MuIFdoZW4gSSB3YXMgQUQgSSB3YXMgd2lsbGluZyB0byBz cG9uc29yIGJ1dCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgZGlkbid0IGdldCBkb25lIGFuZCBJSVVDIGl0J3MganVzdCBy ZWNlbnRseSB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBnb3QgZW5vdWdoIGN5Y2xlcyB0byBjb21wbGV0ZSBpdC4gDQoN Ckkgc3RpbGwgdGhpbmsgcGVhcmcgaXMgdGhlIGJlc3QgY3VycmVudCBmaXQsIGFzIGZvbGxvdyB1 cCB3b3JrIGhlcmUgd291bGQgc2VlbSBtb3JlIGxpa2VseSwgYnV0IGlmIHZhcmlvdXMgUkcgY2hh aXJzIHdlbnQgaW50byBhIGh1ZGRsZSBhbmQgZ290IGl0IG1vdmluZyB0aGF0J2QgYmUgZmluZSwg DQoNClMuIA0KDQpTDQoNCiANCj4gTWVsaW5kYQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAtLSANCj4gU29mdHdh cmUgbG9uZ2EsIGhhcmR3YXJlIGJyZXZpcw0KPiANCj4gUEdQIGtleSBmaW5nZXJwcmludCAgNEY2 OCAyRDkzIDJBMTcgOTZGOCAyMEYyDQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDM0QzAgREZCOCA5 MTcyIDlBNzYgREI4Rg0KPiANCj4= From nobody Mon May 20 04:09:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C58120150 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 04:09:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwruMQ0_f6Sh for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 04:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1704F12014F for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 04:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hSgAc-0005s6-GC for hrpc@irtf.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 13:09:31 +0200 To: hrpc@irtf.org References: <27c2964d-e533-9ea3-bacf-763afe9111ee@nielstenoever.net> <9b24f9c1-c8dc-16e2-ce3d-e1749828ddab@doria.org> <563cc37d-eac1-1b20-bdb4-86a0dcd5e73d@apc.org> From: Mallory Knodel Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mallory@article19.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBEx0TWcBCAC8sirY3nlDnRwY6XWmsvZtM9kmEK6H8no3ZuQ723PKwHOddw1nOykh0in/ /QGRmwtyVzsfLh6/94UUZTn10oo+xGAfw2gf1on5IJTIiphykk732PNnUakVGWwHNKQquTVc kLrydUaFVMb89BAXqExBKlMg2ciEjzbYMCs3I/qZAZ0Wr5nF3RQS8O78elTNAgWTZ98yKTZV DlRoDpnvbfwtIPqnISoSjDEvEUBdpykvS3jHqlR1f6Mx6Xs97S5CORaer/0qTcDm0PAb1Z9l IhMsFl05tNt2FpgS4/RN8NyLasAQNOlScpTJbAfRuyyvRm1N8GLIL1KX+YYeLyqzhdhZABEB AAG0Jk1hbGxvcnkgS25vZGVsIDxtYWxsb3J5QGFydGljbGUxOS5vcmc+iQFWBBMBCABAAhsD BwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1h mgUJEepHrwAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgH3DCAC1sjJmg4+/VcESEzNkiF3KHEDCAssEaQl2FWfuXVvJ /mPliFtjpVv6EhdgUG5lbOcu12TCUWg42wHkE2kbDWXLE3f7HL+Nq0pEPVdMRXLxEfaOs2oR KGx8lh4k1UgYEpnARI486TklOAONKWdJKstEPrtt9LtysnjvhZvYCTzLKJC98c5wUvC46QYy +NdK6GB+uyVzW5kP2uUUBYxiCyHivGBbv77jcJAFVAk96ut1GFpeCCZM2WyYzer95b9n9a1B UGdJgEEVVbbBIQw7yMbMPqEwa8rpfig7QG72GieYItQjllHXGbOECiBcOHrGtrFWsHWxOxJV bZSoVq6sn1UUuQENBEx0TWcBCADiak/YuMW4BbaWL0U9sNg4zO3Qy1OFeye8fJjR8O/wWVSq cqA+sxjzRUee2fHCp6kVLedy6dVfiKmr59p21r4selOdslKaWmEGtz2oYnGpyPB/jKjfleE5 cIkXCdqgDAhfbfuVdF7heHpfhUy4m3yOJl2+CluT/CG9AfaCtyrwqMJzLWK4vmkGXxnBgb92 mGK0WFB2oRydz+SsiobgpCAqJSLcr8ZHQ54SbD9yxxYPv8IsSjt4eJoZCFI7INBsz4i7aj/q 4xcxQ+xiUwyqCZUvrzMxpw7c8TXuPHStDyhnsKkFjxhlY5avNeu0VPwk72C64I+y93gpPrL3 vL0tEmU9ABEBAAGJATwEGAECACYCGwwWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1hmgUJ EepHswAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgEDZCACcTamfNdBACpPHsmsJL1hbWertwYZg7h2rZtgmZQ9C2PMT OgkPPSsfi+xZ6PaXlvm2RI/TX51LbJsCJ9Fd2/WxKdtC0s6o7+0Cl3P57AORf3BRfl3zfXuy VhzjLvM9WhDiQM6JBqDuYxiYnjO56l+gozEuBAtUJaPIxGyggyS5eT8kKv8Szpc4g7/skZXq ccVOHj05KCOaFQ774rsIzcwppqJqGjh9X6nX6m2DONuBIYNXjH9U6FxHSJ6gRRxZkiz2/dDZ YqsHYlkKigH82r9gORhIGZkCd7xnRhyLOHnjjeKtIy5pvGwxUohy+y5l8i1155JEPNB7pphY xFxjMOQU Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 14:09:26 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 594d8924eb9d2e4af18bc4ea99181183 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association-02 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 11:09:37 -0000 Hi St=C3=A9phane and Joe, Thanks for volunteering to incorporate the feedback that has come through the list since the last version of this draft.[0] Can you give us, or me and Avri offlist, a sense of your timeline for another version? And reach out to me if I can give you access to the github group[1] so that you can track your changes. Thanks! -Mallory [0] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-association [1] https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC On 17/05/2019 18:21, St=C3=A9phane Couture wrote: > Hi all, >=20 >=20 > So, as I mentioned in my last email, I re-read the document and am now > sharing some comments. Forgive me if my style is too academic. >=20 >=20 > 1. As it was mentioned earlier (by Avri I think), I think the stated > goal of the document to "establish the causal link" is too strong. The > notion of "causality" usually refers to a quantitative approach (for > instance using regression analysis). The analysis provided in this > document is in my view fundamentally qualitative, and I do not see how > it can support a strong claim of causality. I also have to say that I > come from the field of Science and Technology Studies, where causal > relationships have been strongly debunked in favor of more complex > relationships, so I am a bit doubtful about the term here. >=20 >=20 > 2. The document is also saying that RFC8280, "established either causal > or deterministic relationships,=E2=80=9D but I don't see mention of "ca= usal" in > RFC820, but maybe I am wrong here. >=20 >=20 > 3. There are many places we go too quickly from "machine communication" > to "human communication,=E2=80=9D and from "computing interoperability"= to > "human association.=E2=80=9D For instance, at the end of the paper, it = is > written that "This lack of interoperation is harming the ability of > people to set or negotiate their own terms on which they would like to > assemble or associate.=E2=80=9D However, many authors (and activists) a= re still > praising proprietary social media for their capacity to facilitate > assembly and collective action. And on the other hand, more > interoperable platforms sometime lack user-friendliness or a wider user > base to allow a wide range of people to participate. So, there might be > other variables than "interoperability" to take into account to see how > technologies facilitate association. >=20 >=20 > On this, I think the last sentence should be unfolded : >=20 >=20 > "The use of social-media platforms has enabled groups to associate, but > it has also rendered users unable to change platforms, therefore leadin= g > to a sort of =E2=80=9Cforced association=E2=80=9D that inhibits people = to fully exercise > their freedom of assembly and association.=E2=80=9D >=20 >=20 > What is a "forced association" ? Why is the inability to change > platforms necessarily "leading" to "forced association" ? If there is a > causal link to be made, I would think it is here. >=20 >=20 > 4. Concerning the flow of the argument, it would be good to explain how= , > or why, each of these cases were chosen. It is stated that a "purposive > sampling approach, aimed at the typicality and paradigmatic nature of > the cases" was chosen, but I think there would be a need for better > explanation on the "typicality and paradigmatic nature" of each of the > cases. >=20 >=20 > 5. Again, on the flow of the argument, it would be good to add a > sentence at the end of each of the cases to explain how it is related t= o > freedom of association. For many of them, we have to guess it. >=20 >=20 > I also made some more specific comments in the document that I could > share for the rewriting the new version. >=20 >=20 > Best, >=20 >=20 > St=C3=A9phane >=20 >=20 >=20 > Le=C2=A0jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A011:36, avri doria > a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I think that sounds splendid. >=20 > To both of you, please let Mallory and me know how we can help. >=20 > thanks >=20 > avri >=20 >=20 > On 16-May-19 11:05, St=C3=A9phane Couture wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Mallory have asked me recently to act as editor, as way to contri= bute > > to the group. I was hesitant to do it alone, but I'd be happy to = be > > "co-traveler" on this, if Joseph and others agree.=C2=A0 > > > > I also made comments on the draft, but for some reasons, my docum= ent > > didn't save, so I need to write them again. I'll send them asap. > > > > Best, > > > > St=C3=A9phane > > > > Le=C2=A0jeu. 16 mai 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A010:50, avri doria > > >> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi, > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any takers on the role of co-traveler? > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thanks > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avri > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 16-May-19 09:19, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> I'm definitely interested in helping incorpo= rate the flurry of > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> feedback this draft received before IETF 104= . I would love a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> co-traveler... > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 4:39 PM > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >>> wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks to you and to Gise= la for taking the draft as far as > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it has > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0come. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mallory and I will discus= s how best to continue with this > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft.=C2=A0 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Definitely interested in = hearing from anyone who is > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interested in > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0being > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0part of an editorial effo= rt to take it toward completion. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avri > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 28-Mar-19 13:36, Niels= ten Oever wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Thanks for all the grea= t reviews and comments. It is > great to > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see a lot of new energy o= n this draft. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> As mentioned, Gisela an= d I feel like we are not the best > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0persons > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to integrate the proposed= changes, so we would like to take > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a step > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0back a lead authors and h= ope that others will step forward > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0to take > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the lead to take this RG = document further. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> If there are no others = who want to work as co-authors, > perhaps > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the reviewers (and RG par= ticipants and others) could propose > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0alternate text either in = attached markdown document, or > as pull > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requests on github ( > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0=C2=A0https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/drafts/blob/master/draft-a= ssociation.md > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0)? > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Thanks in advance, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Niels and Gisela > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_________________________= ______________________ > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc mailing list > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc@irtf.org > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.irtf.org/mail= man/listinfo/hrpc > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> -- > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Joseph Lorenzo Hall > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & T= echnology > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> [https://www..cdt.org > ] > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-34= 97 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> e: joe@cdt.org > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>>, p:= 202.407.8825, pgp: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> https://josephhall.org/gpg-key > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 =C2=A0= 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> ____________________________________________= ___ > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> hrpc mailing list > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> hrpc@irtf.org > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0______________________________________________= _ > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc mailing list > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0hrpc@irtf.org > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > hrpc mailing list > hrpc@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc >=20 --=20 Mallory Knodel Head of Digital :: article19.org gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780 From nobody Mon May 20 07:56:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFBC120096 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 07:56:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LKaKQXvGxQSZ for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 07:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83AB312008F for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 07:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hSjhw-0005uO-Aq; Mon, 20 May 2019 16:56:39 +0200 To: S Moonesamy , Amelia Andersdotter , hrpc@irtf.org References: <6.2.5.6.2.20190321204535.07fe3e48@elandnews.com> From: Niels ten Oever Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mail@nielstenoever.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFgpcR0BEACnfvNwTMlN+pyZT0AFYhWqxG3N4AoPIeNfbxLQH7dk8ZL7Ls05xtORfnu9 ovoaRrZpDufkMviUFidNYePbQNdgf63vWVgwpQR7utluwWraetcmZOu6tayJuyBK2b6d2Z23 MJAQxfa2/GMlN3QkvobaoyKtgbc8rOCgNla7WwkgtiVJ89xbAUHXPFpKWZluVRjaFh4p5C5r 7E5OvUiEGLQ5Cn2ir2PGIyIVqjB+hLTyaI6dIGCz2jtL0RATjmsmYUX7UkU/pz8MPPC2BJ5P KU9pdXMRBhAStxcph8vCo2ze9xSi3+1/5A2ULVtvO4s0hZ+exbTfMxMg3H5CCRFEEJXlQEXa Cd0ZHvqcv5xq8n9w/Ccd0CqYWATIwyP8Jlzd+BY3QGTWnWlgoAbs3Guh/pFYhEFNuuAF5Jk1 k5OlNGsRE/LQJmbT5SE7AtLJLbWewcHlEyIH+K6J8uVa4ExLXmRy+eRkFaxjGy3fLlUpy1Ee 1kU7VsQ/TZ8g8ujsMzxqsdB6y0TD/kVlWaDqPL6F+b+pm3lAuCBGWM1YZROTG58R6pD7sNVm i0ift4dIttAsg+2KoShm9A8kQ3tACXZDgNPC0l7VOqnVayjnF0RmjGeiX7PjOcLQCZ9a5wAH 5mrXMaKvfszqAVkP9HSrk1QVZOipF6vEimL43Czy7Rp1aUaUwwARAQABtChOaWVscyB0ZW4g T2V2ZXIgPG1haWxAbmllbHN0ZW5vZXZlci5uZXQ+iQJZBBMBCABDAhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcD AgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQQkWAtwXEr9ipSIZDoO2D86RorIswUCWyJaFgIZAQAK CRAO2D86RorIs8I2D/wNc4kT+dRC3Y9lSygeVWuxNj21z/QlbNvfXx9NicgBx4uCjsCm0ZhS 6qnp0uHYZYr8rdIzrL3GazyEuG9uvNzZBvIHm92UY1x0NH0TOVbGwJCWKULStvg9S+DjmNgp x8XM9amCtuXZyCiESeoOVRUanzD1JIidJtKgDfxvC63kqYoXl3azP0ra2nZbpktMm2fW5YdN D6kp6otjBH/jtpLay1CpVDS2Ehl3rLXJVUu96hlBnQB8q+64qyhTZ23HnbU+ib5Zb3OFgYoB KHjukJ4tV4x9rQprCQeirKX627vcNniDPnMp/nr9Qww6iVidX2vsG/22cx8MqLfs4B9tOVCJ Ft9D7MOwxOWgKnaYvrPZBOEmnuGq7btQe1tQZukL1Z83jKkV/e43k1gJaRt4Nl3/6YYCAlnn aQwRmySxznojsEl+X41UaJ6QFcoCphucOHoO9MeVzuNzgOgodXXEvlA8OJAqxRbE5AqB0leJ z1PfyrF1lsy8ETPRGKUKPBVed1vpZCQBfd/5RksOYBGhyfQ8p0w0hGs8SG6Xl6UtorJ+baLZ ZtnYbakfroxQBsF4bD/0P4fZ8wvTUDNLT8WN/9KFoTXrKn2pTLD+V9iw6nQAH4LSPw0G8XsL ce3Ihkf/2bvorGCUO7YXG4u6FPzEHsa/ZNfWHA5kbpGfwe2OVYNeI7kCDQRYKXEdARAAxYOE 3/AFmEfQ0SVVFujYFhZKX+BGXolYytC2a1soZogVYTIIlypxkRtN+ljteFAY3xX/El7cx5Fx j+uXvLKAm9xQRI/DCug7/NGULMk9bDK5bzSGw817cyiL5Kb+0RkWj2Y5ArOAK6XPGBZWZTHw yIawsSCN9AhDXZQWVRqkR1QXcq3IYKl+OHWMO7+1VfixCSakNf7T/Kiq46rQEPW8Eghk6CVO BR8xUCBbyk5aRW4VSGO6pUD3H21ur+5fTLsVyan1NHhxNNiXfnEJKr+JI5dXSkj7WqA5n8IT aNdFSAttkdT56wAQpxE2h8zaOmBaFUWQ4D8SdXDVymP5QMtLG+ItMMiNV6kXgsRFugAKM5yZ tPP9gIX+ic8QO5iuct37bRXJU/rmrH54Ab0kyAeeRE7oSsfTZPKvgtUh7VLAUEw/wy6TORJH E8JMaX0yYT6h4PGRS3mNM4bka8hjdfcrexI0zSqFOl2I22zQlG3YqSzIvVh98W67hxfAIaCV aTfJLFPEru3drxNwi6ogdkRmcLGKqqTgeYItrvITyFvzqbrcO2exp0KKEK3cDIZypqHHUf4+ uPlDtuExehLsNOMpjP8qhZpFtyLeDS07qunbvstcyvR30wOJ3DyAbHGzq739UyDcO9Jt5jwO DyVwk3MK5Em4pJ0+IAJx+F6gta0Bk2MAEQEAAYkCJQQYAQgADwUCWClxHQIbDAUJCWYBgAAK CRAO2D86RorIs0ykD/4t151SZG9MbeKRVKbs9Ecjady9bO0L3oBos4rhqY12ha8smFlsUzvb gB4CtkBuXQlq+plOBWv+rFEThOzy3bezgEDjlxycoO1W2wJD6E7Fo9fkHT6UOm9fQBkuKRqK 83OGnfM02qP1Ky8d7EoZz+nTSMf/DJgWw1YRKrXkMHBwKD83lCENsmePWE5AjMqk8cojPv9O y1wWy6fHjwx3r+wQSokBNfxgQyAFonmgBbhlic/pZUYRSIcldyUlaomrjFfr4egzmNE7aWDv LwOUYKevBIeJJcqTyfAn3TtJbPCEHOC2+lP6EcmPFyhQdiia+RqOClumqbWOPeQ2VM8j7NWv KKmBNBB5OJ/rmHogbNU+wWPJ723qMBoOp1jIwFNkQhx01W6v55VMwLr+IuBKY1ggJ2BhwQiG pWv4tMc5oB/qVh3my1VO65ErcJ3S9blpwJdDj5/YDOU7BKEmpRUP+xkaryNzH2x7FzrOOHzJ BX6jeYZabGvnTicQlBAzfGpblFqV3YN6EhCF2AHmGLTZ/DrjGYToIsW8cXlEMqN4u8ODEUY0 OhbnytnopKJKk99bwMoCqDkfQvT3LKDWtZj9NzFndfuoKXsVpwAitrG0mau0/16DKDyVWdtJ 9DYmtE40zO6g70VVxUj+dKt2hbJTy/KQTb7Ijhw7wZrGp/P7nhbVyA== Message-ID: <79090be7-137c-b036-6380-c4b9034ce547@nielstenoever.net> Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 14:55:58 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190321204535.07fe3e48@elandnews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated-As-Hash: f1842a279235a42f6aa2a2a81130733515c5a4ec X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 258bd43c1b7c380ff6f1b27dffaa1ebc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] Comments on draft-irtf-hrpc-political-01 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 14:56:49 -0000 Dear SM, On 3/22/19 5:45 AM, S Moonesamy wrote: > Dear Niels, Amelia, > > I have a comment about draft-irtf-hrpc-political-01.  The draft quotes RFC 613 and makes a statement about the design of the Internet.  There is an IAB statement (RFC 1087) about the Internet being a national facility.  How did this IRTF RG determine that its interpretation of "a complicated political and economic question with obvious technical overtones" is correct [1]? > It does not, it simply cites it to show other people came to the conclusion before. I've added a link to RFC3271 to improve the strength of the claim. > The draft cites RFC 1097 and states that "Ethics and the Internet was already a topic of an RFC".  In my opinion, that RFC could be read as a chucklesome commentary. That was wrong, that should have been 1087. Fixed on github, and will be integrated in the next version. Thanks! Niels > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > 1. There was a request for comments about the network connectivity of the IMPs in several locations within a country.  The economic question might be about the cost of the circuits. > -- Niels ten Oever Researcher and PhD Candidate DATACTIVE Research Group University of Amsterdam PGP fingerprint 2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488 643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3 From nobody Mon May 20 09:07:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3E71201B0 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:07:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=opendkim.org header.b=pp/wRdSS; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=elandsys.com header.b=iPcwjbAJ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uS8P1dpUGnEd for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26541201A3 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP-K6V9C2L.elandsys.com ([197.226.55.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id x4KG6KCE005663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 20 May 2019 09:06:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1558368393; x=1558454793; bh=05h7A0EusoUhZAemmYUlHhCuAzCd+QUMFfaflMyTYvE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=pp/wRdSSycwJL5QumyRthGXg/wet9LDGK6+FcckRuFI/uPzgH5xb/pClGEZHZAEEa TORBgPP2FG76A03t50Cnw2E55p0LKKQwp9w8IZQu0agPHgbsl3lhrUiu3OUas6CZVh ju56FwGORTSkHYgNW/xUObTWk/FUgtNHbQSMSI9k= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=elandsys.com; s=mail; t=1558368393; x=1558454793; i=@elandsys.com; bh=05h7A0EusoUhZAemmYUlHhCuAzCd+QUMFfaflMyTYvE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=iPcwjbAJyCW4qBYtU3ekq6WIZavSHHGDrt9nRAm13tuTsnldpvHGh9K1vo/AIQeIu GZiBsHNhscPi2TYV9/q+epFy/C2jjRyWW29YBt34g4scXsy/mSYvRPE8roXcvwVNCp zc2i7rdNnvDBtIxyi658u2BggKgPMLe3bG5e2l6k= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20190520080827.0be4b3f8@elandnews.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 09:03:06 -0700 To: Niels ten Oever , Amelia Andersdotter , hrpc@irtf.org From: S Moonesamy In-Reply-To: <79090be7-137c-b036-6380-c4b9034ce547@nielstenoever.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20190321204535.07fe3e48@elandnews.com> <79090be7-137c-b036-6380-c4b9034ce547@nielstenoever.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hrpc] Comments on draft-irtf-hrpc-political-01 X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 16:07:11 -0000 Dear Niels, At 07:55 AM 20-05-2019, Niels ten Oever wrote: >It does not, it simply cites it to show other people came to the >conclusion before. I've added a link to RFC3271 to improve the >strength of the claim. RFC 3271 states that it "expresses the Internet Society's ideology". There was some discussion recently on the topic of whether the Internet is for users [1]. Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/EhoGfWiRpmlIDLvgA9k8Q-CUVEk From nobody Tue May 21 14:43:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475A0120047 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0vhbnINAA7N4 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 14:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homere.koumbit.net (homere.koumbit.net [199.58.80.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66618120105 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 14:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-f45.google.com (mail-wm1-f45.google.com [209.85.128.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: steph@stephcouture.info) by homere.koumbit.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7C6F1E42A37 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 17:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm1-f45.google.com with SMTP id j187so119853wmj.1 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 14:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVNWti8i0HTWUwQP2nN6ToyqCIuWBoNeyYdruqukC9ZBPM/D7fA ZqMQ2y0PTGu7bpkS5HIoOWtjOUCcHEAExXZX7Mo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy1vmgKi8PRIx/ZArsFXwjnX4u4mq3P+AIVm7Kqyv5LdlN661zWgFDH1VSNmqXKGw/HKdjVacrxUNoMonoqokg= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:9a14:: with SMTP id c20mr5112810wme.61.1558474987567; Tue, 21 May 2019 14:43:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Couture?= Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 17:42:55 -0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: hrpc@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000006817505896cbc1c" Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] Interviews for academic research X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:43:14 -0000 --00000000000006817505896cbc1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, As I have been a bit more visible on the list over the last few days, I=E2= =80=99d like to take the opportunity to inform you that I might contact some of you to request interviews for my academic research. As a reminder, I am a professor of communications at York University in Toronto, Canada and am currently conducting a research project on =E2=80=9CSocial Justice and Inte= rnet Infrastructures,=E2=80=9D in which I am looking at the role of civil societ= y in Internet Governance and the making of Internet infrastructures. This research project is funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. As part of my research, I have been very interested in the work of some IRTF working groups, such as HRPC and GAIA. I have talked with some of you and have followed or looked at discussions that occurred in the past years on the public mailing list. In preparation for the next IETF meeting in Montreal, I=E2=80=99d like to conduct a few interviews, to better understan= d motivations and forms of engagement of people actives in this working group. My research assistant - Max Maccarone - or myself may contact you in the near future to request such interviews. I am informing the list, so you will not be surprised to such an email. If you feel proactively interested in participating in such interviews or have any questions, you may also contact me directly to learn more. Best, St=C3=A9phane Couture --00000000000006817505896cbc1c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=09 =09

Dear all,

As I have been a bit more visible o= n the list over the last few days, I=E2=80=99d like to take the opportunity to inform you that I might contact some of you to request interviews for my academic research. As a reminder, I am a professor of communications at York University in Toronto, Canada and am currently conducting a research project on =E2=80=9C= Social Justice and Internet Infrastructures,=E2=80=9D in which I am looking at the role of civil society in Internet Governance and the making of Internet infrastructures. This research project is funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada.

As part of my research, I have been very interested in the work of some IRTF working groups, such as HRPC and GAIA. I have talked with some of you = and have followed or looked at discussions that occurred in the past years on the public mailing= list. In preparation for the next IETF meeting in Montreal, I=E2=80=99d like to conduct a few in= terviews, to better understand motivations and forms of engagement of people actives in this working group. My researc= h assistant - Max Maccarone - or myself may contact you in the near future to request such interviews.

I am informing the list, so you will not be surprised to such an email. If you feel proactively interested in participating in such interviews or have any questions, you may also contact me directly to learn= more.

Best,

St=C3=A9phane Couture

--00000000000006817505896cbc1c-- From nobody Wed May 29 23:58:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F27E12003E; Wed, 29 May 2019 23:58:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZWA6IQsxh6c; Wed, 29 May 2019 23:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF9E21201EA; Wed, 29 May 2019 23:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.greenhost.nl ([213.108.110.112]) by smarthost1.greenhost.nl with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hWF0X-0001tP-Ve; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:58:20 +0200 From: Mallory Knodel To: hrpc@irtf.org, hr-rt@irtf.org Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=mallory@article19.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBEx0TWcBCAC8sirY3nlDnRwY6XWmsvZtM9kmEK6H8no3ZuQ723PKwHOddw1nOykh0in/ /QGRmwtyVzsfLh6/94UUZTn10oo+xGAfw2gf1on5IJTIiphykk732PNnUakVGWwHNKQquTVc kLrydUaFVMb89BAXqExBKlMg2ciEjzbYMCs3I/qZAZ0Wr5nF3RQS8O78elTNAgWTZ98yKTZV DlRoDpnvbfwtIPqnISoSjDEvEUBdpykvS3jHqlR1f6Mx6Xs97S5CORaer/0qTcDm0PAb1Z9l IhMsFl05tNt2FpgS4/RN8NyLasAQNOlScpTJbAfRuyyvRm1N8GLIL1KX+YYeLyqzhdhZABEB AAG0Jk1hbGxvcnkgS25vZGVsIDxtYWxsb3J5QGFydGljbGUxOS5vcmc+iQFWBBMBCABAAhsD BwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1h mgUJEepHrwAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgH3DCAC1sjJmg4+/VcESEzNkiF3KHEDCAssEaQl2FWfuXVvJ /mPliFtjpVv6EhdgUG5lbOcu12TCUWg42wHkE2kbDWXLE3f7HL+Nq0pEPVdMRXLxEfaOs2oR KGx8lh4k1UgYEpnARI486TklOAONKWdJKstEPrtt9LtysnjvhZvYCTzLKJC98c5wUvC46QYy +NdK6GB+uyVzW5kP2uUUBYxiCyHivGBbv77jcJAFVAk96ut1GFpeCCZM2WyYzer95b9n9a1B UGdJgEEVVbbBIQw7yMbMPqEwa8rpfig7QG72GieYItQjllHXGbOECiBcOHrGtrFWsHWxOxJV bZSoVq6sn1UUuQENBEx0TWcBCADiak/YuMW4BbaWL0U9sNg4zO3Qy1OFeye8fJjR8O/wWVSq cqA+sxjzRUee2fHCp6kVLedy6dVfiKmr59p21r4selOdslKaWmEGtz2oYnGpyPB/jKjfleE5 cIkXCdqgDAhfbfuVdF7heHpfhUy4m3yOJl2+CluT/CG9AfaCtyrwqMJzLWK4vmkGXxnBgb92 mGK0WFB2oRydz+SsiobgpCAqJSLcr8ZHQ54SbD9yxxYPv8IsSjt4eJoZCFI7INBsz4i7aj/q 4xcxQ+xiUwyqCZUvrzMxpw7c8TXuPHStDyhnsKkFjxhlY5avNeu0VPwk72C64I+y93gpPrL3 vL0tEmU9ABEBAAGJATwEGAECACYCGwwWIQTj62PgZaOyQLzZsHEMMqJxvTzHgAUCXH1hmgUJ EepHswAKCRAMMqJxvTzHgEDZCACcTamfNdBACpPHsmsJL1hbWertwYZg7h2rZtgmZQ9C2PMT OgkPPSsfi+xZ6PaXlvm2RI/TX51LbJsCJ9Fd2/WxKdtC0s6o7+0Cl3P57AORf3BRfl3zfXuy VhzjLvM9WhDiQM6JBqDuYxiYnjO56l+gozEuBAtUJaPIxGyggyS5eT8kKv8Szpc4g7/skZXq ccVOHj05KCOaFQ774rsIzcwppqJqGjh9X6nX6m2DONuBIYNXjH9U6FxHSJ6gRRxZkiz2/dDZ YqsHYlkKigH82r9gORhIGZkCd7xnRhyLOHnjjeKtIy5pvGwxUohy+y5l8i1155JEPNB7pphY xFxjMOQU Message-ID: <5da67624-ace5-6d60-a087-5f7c3c024095@article19.org> Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 09:57:44 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.samage.net X-Scan-Signature: 8b3222cd26cce149ddb9ffa05c4da76e Archived-At: Subject: [hrpc] Learning from reviews X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 06:58:25 -0000 Hi everyone, In order to make the learnings from draft reviews against RFC 8280 more visible and part of the chartered work of HRPC, we have taken some recent steps: * Encouraged hr-rt (human rights review team) subscribers to share updates on reviews that they're conducting using RFC 8280 to the hrpc list instead. And the hr-rt list will be closed down due to redundancy. * Created a new IRTF-HRPC repository called "reviews" in Github to track these reviews and learnings: https://github.com/IRTF-HRPC/reviews So, if you are someone who is interested in using RFC 8280 or the guidelines draft to conduct reviews, please feed that work back into HRPC by: * Sending a message to HRPC about drafts that might be interesting because of a) clear connection to RFC 8280, b) requests from authors or engagement with RFC 8280 in the I-D drafting process, or c) existence of a human rights considerations section in an I-D. * CCing the HRPC list if someone in HRPC conducts a review and cites RFC 8280, * Discussing on the list and in meetings about learnings gleaned from the review process when using RFC 8280 or the guidelines draft. * When you've sent a review (hopefully with HRPC on CC) please follow up on HRPC with an additional note on the utility or appropriateness, &c. of RFC 8280 in the analysis. Thanks all, -Mallory -- Mallory Knodel Head of Digital :: article19.org gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780