
From nobody Mon Jan  2 03:42:24 2017
Return-Path: <rick@openfortress.nl>
X-Original-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B37128DF6 for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon,  2 Jan 2017 03:42:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.621
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nE6DDD7xzc2h for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon,  2 Jan 2017 03:42:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net [194.109.24.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D60B0126579 for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Mon,  2 Jan 2017 03:42:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from airhead.local ([IPv6:2001:980:93a5:1:fd59:a831:6620:1614]) by smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net with ESMTP id TPiE1u0081ikzLt01PiF44; Mon, 02 Jan 2017 12:42:17 +0100
Message-ID: <586A3C94.4090504@openfortress.nl>
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2017 12:42:12 +0100
From: Rick van Rein <rick@openfortress.nl>
User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-auth/sO0o6Qez6lgWjSQmu_uYSd5uX_Q>
Subject: [http-auth] Why is there no SASL support in HTTP?
X-BeenThere: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: HTTP authentication methods <http-auth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-auth/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-auth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2017 11:42:22 -0000

Hello,

I've been wondering why HTTP Authentication does not support SASL, but
instead chooses independent mechanisms from SASL?

Having a pluggable framework that is updated independently from HTTP
appears beneficial to me.  Also, integration with other systems that do
use SASL would be greatly improved.  With support for SASL is so many
mail clients already, its introduction to HTTP clients may be relatively
smooth.

I am aware that mechanisms need to store state on the validating side,
so the server, which contradicts HTTP design.  That may be easily
resolved by passing some state back to the client, and making it supply
when it continues.  For example, digest-based authentication might send
back random bytes as state, and hash it with an internal key to form a
challenge.  When presented with the state and response, the computation
can be validated without a need for state on the server.

Alternatives to state on the server may also exist -- for instance, a
TLS wrapper may provide consistent entropy using RFC 5705.


One thing I've been thinking is that SASL EXTERNAL may be a useful
addition.  Not to actually authenticate, but it could trigger
authorisation processes, possibly using another identity and/or
triggering the generation of Authorization-Info headers that might relay
information (such as identity) to the client at the HTTP layer.


If so desired, I am willing to write an I-D for this.


Thanks,

Rick van Rein
(wishing all a properly secured 2017)
http://internetwide.org


From nobody Tue Jan  3 14:30:33 2017
Return-Path: <murch@andrew.cmu.edu>
X-Original-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B02F129A71 for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue,  3 Jan 2017 14:30:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.3
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ErojnbspW9d6 for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue,  3 Jan 2017 14:30:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.andrew.cmu.edu (SMTP.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.105.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C593A129A62 for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue,  3 Jan 2017 14:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [172.31.25.253] (VPN-172-31-25-253.VPN.CMU.LOCAL [172.31.25.253]) (user=murch mech=PLAIN (0 bits)) by smtp.andrew.cmu.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v03MUPd8077263 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 17:30:26 -0500
To: http-auth@ietf.org
References: <586A3C94.4090504@openfortress.nl>
From: Ken Murchison <murch@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Message-ID: <8fe83a05-d104-4fee-f483-0ff74e84b80e@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 17:30:25 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <586A3C94.4090504@openfortress.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-PMX-Version: 6.3.0.2556906, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2017.1.3.222117
X-SMTP-Spam-Clean: 10% ( TO_IN_SUBJECT 0.5, HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_2999 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, DATE_TZ_NA 0, FROM_EDU_TLD 0, IN_REP_TO 0, LEGITIMATE_NEGATE 0, LEGITIMATE_SIGNS 0, MSG_THREAD 0, REFERENCES 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __FORWARDED_MSG 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HTTPS_URI 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT 0, __MULTIPLE_URI_TEXT 0, __NO_HTML_TAG_RAW 0, __PHISH_SPEAR_STRUCTURE_1 0, __REFERENCES 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __TO_IN_SUBJECT2 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __URI_IN_BODY 0, __URI_NS , __URI_NS_SERVFAIL , __URI_WITH_PATH 0, __USER_AGENT 0)
X-SMTP-Spam-Score: 10%
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 128.2.105.202
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-auth/48sPonnYt6eRROKtNev-jHIAYOE>
Subject: Re: [http-auth] Why is there no SASL support in HTTP?
X-BeenThere: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: HTTP authentication methods <http-auth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-auth/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-auth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 22:30:31 -0000

Already tried once: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nystrom-http-sasl-12

This effort was before my interest in HTTP so I don't know why it died.



On 01/02/2017 06:42 AM, Rick van Rein wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've been wondering why HTTP Authentication does not support SASL, but
> instead chooses independent mechanisms from SASL?
>
> Having a pluggable framework that is updated independently from HTTP
> appears beneficial to me.  Also, integration with other systems that do
> use SASL would be greatly improved.  With support for SASL is so many
> mail clients already, its introduction to HTTP clients may be relatively
> smooth.
>
> I am aware that mechanisms need to store state on the validating side,
> so the server, which contradicts HTTP design.  That may be easily
> resolved by passing some state back to the client, and making it supply
> when it continues.  For example, digest-based authentication might send
> back random bytes as state, and hash it with an internal key to form a
> challenge.  When presented with the state and response, the computation
> can be validated without a need for state on the server.
>
> Alternatives to state on the server may also exist -- for instance, a
> TLS wrapper may provide consistent entropy using RFC 5705.
>
>
> One thing I've been thinking is that SASL EXTERNAL may be a useful
> addition.  Not to actually authenticate, but it could trigger
> authorisation processes, possibly using another identity and/or
> triggering the generation of Authorization-Info headers that might relay
> information (such as identity) to the client at the HTTP layer.
>
>
> If so desired, I am willing to write an I-D for this.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick van Rein
> (wishing all a properly secured 2017)
> http://internetwide.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> http-auth mailing list
> http-auth@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth

-- 
Kenneth Murchison
Principal Systems Software Engineer
Carnegie Mellon University


From nobody Tue Jan  3 15:05:31 2017
Return-Path: <tony@att.com>
X-Original-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594631298A6 for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue,  3 Jan 2017 15:05:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.602
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D5GANHvWKUPj for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue,  3 Jan 2017 15:05:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3D5A12989C for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue,  3 Jan 2017 15:05:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0049462.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049462.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id v03MtQI6029672 for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 18:05:27 -0500
Received: from alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp7.sbc.com [144.160.229.24]) by m0049462.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 27rf5bsc2j-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 18:05:27 -0500
Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v03N5RPH011812 for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 18:05:27 -0500
Received: from mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.241]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v03N5Ls7011760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 18:05:23 -0500
Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAA.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAA.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.145]) by mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor) for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 23:05:03 GMT
Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRCG.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.7.158]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAA.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.145]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 3 Jan 2017 18:05:03 -0500
From: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>
To: "http-auth@ietf.org" <http-auth@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [http-auth] Why is there no SASL support in HTTP?
Thread-Index: AQHSZO1RSepZQ0ifxE6hB+xKODPLpaEnq+uA//+12YA=
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 23:05:02 +0000
Message-ID: <ECB0DAA2-0297-4AAF-AD77-42048403E884@att.com>
References: <586A3C94.4090504@openfortress.nl> <8fe83a05-d104-4fee-f483-0ff74e84b80e@andrew.cmu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <8fe83a05-d104-4fee-f483-0ff74e84b80e@andrew.cmu.edu>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-originating-ip: [135.110.241.67]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <88276B12C132354781E7E7DA9AF085CF@LOCAL>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-RSA-Inspected: yes
X-RSA-Classifications: public
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-01-03_19:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1701030343
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-auth/8fTaJIJu4myR4Xq_wZEcq7zRSss>
Subject: Re: [http-auth] Why is there no SASL support in HTTP?
X-BeenThere: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: HTTP authentication methods <http-auth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-auth/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-auth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 23:05:30 -0000
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From nobody Thu Jan  5 01:16:48 2017
Return-Path: <rick@openfortress.nl>
X-Original-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B168B129439 for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu,  5 Jan 2017 01:16:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZfSNXovuP421 for <http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu,  5 Jan 2017 01:16:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net [194.109.24.24]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FB17128E19 for <http-auth@ietf.org>; Thu,  5 Jan 2017 01:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from airhead.local ([IPv6:2001:980:93a5:1:3da7:3bf8:9c50:2ca7]) by smtp-cloud6.xs4all.net with ESMTP id UZGe1u0080KuCFd01ZGfTq; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:16:41 +0100
Message-ID: <586E0EF5.5080108@openfortress.nl>
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:16:37 +0100
From: Rick van Rein <rick@openfortress.nl>
User-Agent: Postbox 3.0.11 (Macintosh/20140602)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: http-auth@ietf.org
References: <586A3C94.4090504@openfortress.nl> <8fe83a05-d104-4fee-f483-0ff74e84b80e@andrew.cmu.edu> <ECB0DAA2-0297-4AAF-AD77-42048403E884@att.com> <586E0E90.7030902@openfortress.nl>
In-Reply-To: <586E0E90.7030902@openfortress.nl>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-auth/XV1yLdjHzBUS9QyZRQlaWpIBzGY>
Subject: Re: [http-auth] Why is there no SASL support in HTTP?
X-BeenThere: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: HTTP authentication methods <http-auth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-auth/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-auth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 09:16:46 -0000

Hi Tony,

Thanks a lot!

> 1) a mechanism for SASL mechanism discovery.
> 2) the willingness by client and server implementers to extend this into other SASL mechanisms.
>
> #1 could be solved in a straightforward fashion. But I don’t think there’s enough interest currently for #2.

I have a very concrete place where I want it, and it doesn't have the
usual chicken / egg problem:

The Nginx proxy has a "Auth Request" mechanism where authn / authz can
be performed via a HTTP call to a backend; status codes 401, 403 or 2xx
are interpreted and output header values may be harvested.  A similar
mechanism could be used for a SASL backend.

This could directly integrate with its backends for POP3, IMAP, SMTP and
(3rd party) XMPP.  Although there's no direct need to standardise it for
this internal purpose, it may be the best way to go.

That may turn out to be a useful bootstrapping path, making it flow into
closed systems and gradually spreading out.  Wishful thinking?  There's
no way to know but to try...

What you are stating is mostly pragmatic, and the need to build up
enthousiasm for writing it down.  I think HTTP SASL is well worth the
effort, and at least allow HTTP programmers to get away from the in-site
coding of password logic, and adopt more mechanisms.  So I now feel
encouraged to write it down.


Thanks!
 -Rick


From nobody Fri Jan  6 14:12:22 2017
Return-Path: <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: http-auth@ietf.org
Delivered-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B13E126BF7; Fri,  6 Jan 2017 14:12:17 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: "IETF-Announce" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
X-Test-IDTracker: no
X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.40.3
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
Message-ID: <148374073752.17474.14854827129235366898.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 14:12:17 -0800
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-auth/D-KRvNz-ydJqlW8DZIJ1ZjZC8S8>
Cc: draft-ietf-httpauth-mutual@ietf.org, httpauth-chairs@ietf.org, http-auth@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Subject: [http-auth] Document Action: 'Mutual Authentication Protocol for HTTP' to Experimental RFC (draft-ietf-httpauth-mutual-11.txt)
X-BeenThere: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
List-Id: HTTP authentication methods <http-auth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-auth/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-auth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 22:12:17 -0000

The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'Mutual Authentication Protocol for HTTP'
  (draft-ietf-httpauth-mutual-11.txt) as Experimental RFC

This document is the product of the Hypertext Transfer Protocol
Authentication Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Stephen Farrell and Kathleen Moriarty.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpauth-mutual/





Technical Summary

This document specifies a mutual authentication scheme for the
Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP).  This scheme provides true mutual
authentication between an HTTP client and an HTTP server using
password-based authentication.  Unlike the Basic and Digest
authentication schemes, the Mutual authentication scheme specified in
this document assures the user that the server truly knows the user's
encrypted password.

Working Group Summary

  This document is one of the experimental documents submitted to the
  HTTP-Auth working group.

  With version -8 it is the consensus of the HTTP-Auth working group
  that this document is fit to be published as an experimental RFC.


Document Quality

   The proposed mutual authentication method has been reviewed by a fair
   number of participants.

   There is at least one known implementation of this protocol.

   The authors declared 2 IPRs:
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=draft&id=draft-ietf-httpauth-mutual


Personnel

   Shepherd: Rifaat Shekh-Yusef
   Area Director: Kathleen Moriarty

IANA Note

  This draft establishes two registries that require expert review per RFC5226.
     A registry for HTTP Mutual authentication algorithms and
     A registry for HTTP Mutual authentication host validation methods


From nobody Wed Jan 25 17:30:13 2017
Return-Path: <wwwrun@rfc-editor.org>
X-Original-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: http-auth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D669129457; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:30:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.401
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J56cfSCKiTNs; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEF5412944E; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:29:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id A60D4B80F7D; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:29:47 -0800 (PST)
To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org
X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php
From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Message-Id: <20170126012947.A60D4B80F7D@rfc-editor.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 17:29:47 -0800 (PST)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-auth/nTAWRmlhZCAxzTISX8gtqIkOC4Q>
Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, http-auth@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Subject: [http-auth] RFC 8053 on HTTP Authentication Extensions for Interactive Clients
X-BeenThere: http-auth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: HTTP authentication methods <http-auth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-auth/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-auth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-auth>, <mailto:http-auth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 01:30:05 -0000

A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 8053

        Title:      HTTP Authentication Extensions for 
                    Interactive Clients 
        Author:     Y. Oiwa, H. Watanabe,
                    H. Takagi, K. Maeda,
                    T. Hayashi, Y. Ioku
        Status:     Experimental
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       January 2017
        Mailbox:    y.oiwa@aist.go.jp, 
                    h-watanabe@aist.go.jp, 
                    takagi.hiromitsu@aist.go.jp,
                    maeda@lepidum.co.jp, 
                    hayashi@lepidum.co.jp,
                    mutual-work@ioku.org
        Pages:      28
        Characters: 62530
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-httpauth-extension-09.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8053

        DOI:        10.17487/RFC8053

This document specifies extensions for the HTTP authentication
framework for interactive clients.  Currently, fundamental features
of HTTP-level authentication are insufficient for complex
requirements of various Web-based applications.  This forces these
applications to implement their own authentication frameworks by
means such as HTML forms, which becomes one of the hurdles against
introducing secure authentication mechanisms handled jointly by
servers and user agents.  The extended framework fills gaps between
Web application requirements and HTTP authentication provisions to
solve the above problems, while maintaining compatibility with
existing Web and non-Web uses of HTTP authentication.

This document is a product of the Hypertext Transfer Protocol Authentication Working Group of the IETF.


EXPERIMENTAL: This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the
Internet community.  It does not specify an Internet standard of any
kind. Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested.
Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.
To subscribe or unsubscribe, see
  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
  https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist

For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search
For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk

Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org.  Unless
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.


The RFC Editor Team
Association Management Solutions, LLC


