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From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= <dwing@cisco.com>
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Subject: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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Based on https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home that I am =
looking at now, I have two questions,

1.  "The primary goal of I2NSF is to define an information model, a set =
of software interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring =
aspects of physical and virtual NSFs."

Should that say "... and monitoring SECURITY aspects ...", as was in =
Strassner's =
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00388.html?

Even with the edit to become "security aspects", I am uncomfortable =
where the line is drawn between a "security aspect" (in scope of i2nsf) =
and "other aspects" (out of scope of i2nsf).  For example, 'remediation' =
is mentioned at the end of the same paragraph, and remediation could =
involve sending a compromised host to a "remediation portal".  Would =
that steering of the user's traffic be a "security aspect" or an "other =
aspect", and does that answer depend on if the function is accomplished =
by reconfiguring network switches or if the function is internal to the =
NSF itself.


2. There are two places where IANA registry is mentioned, once in =
'concrete work' and again in 'deliverables'.  The text differs.  Is this =
two registries, or one registry?  Can the charter text be clarified if =
these are two registries or one?

-d


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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, <i2nsf@ietf.org>, "'Kathleen Moriarty'" <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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Cc: "'Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)'" <dromasca@avaya.com>, joe@salowey.net
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Revised I2NSF charter with "Simple Service Layer" included in the scope
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Hi Linda,

I want to suggest some edits to the charter text. Using change markers =
is
somewhat hard in a text email, but I have done my best.

OLD
Network Security Function (NSF) is to ensure integrity, confidentiality =
and
availability of network communications, to detect unwanted activity, and =
to
block it or at least mitigate its effects.
NEW
A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure =
integrity,
confidentiality, and availability of network communications, to detect =
unwanted
network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects of =
unwanted
activity.
END

NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. =
Users of
NSFs could consume network security services hosted by one or more =
providers,
which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a combination =
of both.=20

OLD
Likewise, service providers of NSFs may offer their customers network =
security
services that consist of multiple security products and/or functions =
from
different vendors.
NEW
Similarly, service providers may offer their customers network security =
services
that consist of multiple security products and/or functions from =
different
vendors.
END

NSFs may be provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure.=20

OLD
Without standard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, =
it has
become virtually impossible for security service providers to automate =
service
offerings that utilize different security functions from multiple =
vendors.
NEW
Without standard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, =
it has
become virtually impossible for providers of security services to =
automate
service offerings that utilize different security functions from =
multiple
vendors.
END

OLD
The primary goal of I2NSF is to define an information model, a set of =
software
interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring aspects of =
physical
and virtual NSFs.
COMMENT
I suggest we adopt the language used in existing charters to discuss =
information
models so that the WG is not obliged to produce an information model, =
but can do
if it considers it necessary.
NEW
The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data =
models for
controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs. If the =
working
group finds it necessary to work on an information model before the data =
models,
to help provide guidance and derive the data models, it may do so. The =
working
group will decide later whether the information model needs to be =
published as
an RFC.
END

Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and =
configuration,
are out of scope.=20

INSERT
<paragraph break>
END

Controlling and monitoring of NSFs should include the ability to =
specify, query,
monitor, and control the NSFs by one or more management entities. Since
different security vendors support different features and functions on =
their
devices, I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to
packets/flows, such as IPS/IDS

COMMENT
need to expand "IPS/IDS"
END

, Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern =
matching and
remediation.=20

OLD
There are two layers of interfaces envisioned in the I2NSF approach:
NEW
I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control =
and
monitoring of network security functions:
END

OLD
=95 The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs =
at a
functional implementation level. That is, I2NSF will standardize a set =
of
interfaces by which a security controller can control and manage NSFs =
may be
invoked, operated, and monitored. (I2NSF will not at this stage specify =
how to
derive control and monitoring capabilities from higher level security =
policies
for the Capability Layer.)
COMMENT
Text about operation of the security controller to produce capabilities =
for the
Capability Layer moved to next bullet.
NEW
=95 The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs =
at a
functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of =
interfaces by
which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.=20
END

OLD
=95 The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=92 security policies may =
be
expressed and monitored to a security controller that uses the =
capability layer
to control and manage NSFs to implement these policies.=A0 Describing a =
simple
service layer modeled as closely as possible on the capability layer is =
within
scope.=A0 With this simple service layers, security controllers might =
handle
issues like multi-tenancy concerns, and choosing which of the available =
NSFs to
use for a given policy.=A0 Expressing policies in ways other than the =
model used
by the capability layer is out of scope. =A0However, I2NSF will provide =
a forum
for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how =
more
complex service layer policies and policies in other formats may be =
translated
to Capability Layer functions.
NEW
=95 The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=92 security policies may =
be
expressed a security controller that uses the capability layer to =
control and
manage NSFs to implement these policies.  It also allows the client to =
monitor
those policies. I2NSF will not specify how a security controller maps =
security
service requests at the Service Layer to control and management actions =
at the
Capability Layer, but the development of a Simple Service Layer model =
that is
modelled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer is within scope. =
 Such a
Simple Service Layer will enable a security controllers to handle issues =
like
multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a given policy.
Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Capability =
Layer is
out of scope, however I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational =
drafts on
data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer =
policies
and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.
END

COMMENT
The following list of tasks duplicates the deliverables. Merge the =
content and
include it below.
DELETE
The concrete work at the I2NSF Capability Layer includes development of

=95 An information model that defines concepts required for =
standardizing the
control and monitoring of NSFs.
=95 A set of YANG data models, derived from the above information model.
=95 The capability registry (IANA) that enables the characteristics and =
behavior
of NSFs to be specified using a vendor-neutral vocabulary without =
requiring the
NSFs themselves to be standardized. The registry enables various =
mechanisms,
including policy rules, to be used to match monitor and control =
functions to the
needs of an application and/or environment.
=95 Examining the existing secure communication mechanisms to identify =
the
appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring information =
between
the NSFs and their management entity (or entities).

OLD
Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs =
are
essential building blocks for Security Service Providers to automate the =
use of
different NSFs from multiple vendors by their Security management =
entities. This
work will leverage the existing protocols and data models defined by =
I2RS,
Netconf, and NETMOD. If extensions to these protocols are needed, =
requirements
will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be developed in
cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
NEW
Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs =
are
essential building blocks for providers of security service to automate =
the use
of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will leverage the =
existing
protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD =
working
groups. If extensions to these protocols or data models are needed, =
requirements
will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be developed in
cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
END

The I2NSF WG=92s deliverables include:

OLD
- Use cases, problem statement, gap analysis document [The WG will =
decide if to
proceed as RFC].
- Framework Document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and the =
purpose
of the models developed by the WG [The WG will decide if to proceed as =
RFC].
- A single, unified, Information Model for controlling and monitoring =
flow-based
NSFs.
- Corresponding YANG Data Models derived from the above Information =
Model.
- IANA registry consideration for flow-based NSFs controlling and =
monitoring
capabilities.[maybe merged into data models]
NEW
- A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap =
analysis
document. This document will initially be produced for reference as a =
living
list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide to not publish =
this
document as an RFC.
- A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and =
the
purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will also be a
reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to not =
publish this
document as an RFC.
- If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, =
Information
Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based NSFs.
- YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
- Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables the
characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a =
vendor-neutral
vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The
registry enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, to be used =
to match
monitor and control functions to the needs of an application and/or =
environment.
- An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify =
the
appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring information =
between
the NSFs and their management entities. This document may also be =
produced as a
working document that is not published as an RFC.
END

OLD
The WG may additionally choose to develop additional documents to =
describe
requirements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the =
WG, and
how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and =
to
describe how to use I2RS, Netconf, and NETMOD to carry the content of =
the data
models.
NEW
The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe =
requirements for
extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to explain how =
the
data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and to =
describe how
to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of the data models. These =
documents
may be published as Informational RFCs of may be working documents that =
are
discarded once they have triggered the necessary work.
END

DELETE
[The WG may decide that the Use cases, Framework, and gap analysis are =
simply
reference documents during the lifetime of the WG and not to be =
published as an
RFC.]
END

OLD
The WG will work closely with I2RS, Netconf and Netmod WGs. The WG will
communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open =
source code
development related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF, =
OpenStack, ODL,
and OPNFV.
NEW
The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG =
will
communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open =
source code
development related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF, =
OpenStack, ODL,
and OPNFV.
END

COMMENT
These milestones are ambiguous. Do we mean:
- someone writes a document
- the WG adopts a document
- the WG males a publication request
- the RFC is published?
I think all that is needed is to add the clarity.
END

Suggested Milestones

=A0 - Use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis Document:=A0 =
Charter time + 1
month
=A0 - Framework: Charter time + 4 months to WG Document
=A0 - Requirements for extensions to protocols:=A0 Charter time + 8 =
months to WG
document
=A0 - Info model: Charter time + 8 months to WG Document
=A0 - IANA registry consideration + 12 months to WG Document
=A0 - All Early Drafts to IESG: 18 months


[decision point =96 +10 months]=A0=20

=A0 - Data Models: Charter + 9 Months to WG Document
=A0 - Applicability Statements: 10 months to WG Document
=A0 - Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG=A0 - 18 months



From nobody Wed Aug  5 10:09:34 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, "'Kathleen Moriarty'" <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Revised I2NSF charter with "Simple Service Layer" included in the scope
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Revised I2NSF charter with "Simple Service Layer" included in the scope
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Adrian,=20

Thank you very much for the suggestions. All of them are great suggestions

I have some questions/comments inserted below. The clean version is updated=
 in the i2nsf wiki: https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/



Thanks,=20
Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 7:03 AM
To: Linda Dunbar; i2nsf@ietf.org; 'Kathleen Moriarty'
Cc: 'Romascanu, Dan (Dan)'; joe@salowey.net
Subject: RE: [I2nsf] Revised I2NSF charter with "Simple Service Layer" incl=
uded in the scope

Hi Linda,

I want to suggest some edits to the charter text. Using change markers is s=
omewhat hard in a text email, but I have done my best.

OLD
Network Security Function (NSF) is to ensure integrity, confidentiality and=
 availability of network communications, to detect unwanted activity, and t=
o block it or at least mitigate its effects.
NEW
A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure integrity, c=
onfidentiality, and availability of network communications, to detect unwan=
ted network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects of unwa=
nted activity.
END

[Linda] That is very good suggestion.=20

NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. Users =
of NSFs could consume network security services hosted by one or more provi=
ders, which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a combinatio=
n of both.=20

OLD
Likewise, service providers of NSFs may offer their customers network secur=
ity services that consist of multiple security products and/or functions fr=
om different vendors.
NEW
Similarly, service providers may offer their customers network security ser=
vices that consist of multiple security products and/or functions from diff=
erent vendors.
END

[Linda] Instead of saying "The "network security services that consist of",=
 can we say "The network security services that are enforced by multiple se=
curity products and/or functions from different vendors"?=20

NSFs may be provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure.=20

OLD
Without standard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it=
 has become virtually impossible for security service providers to automate=
 service offerings that utilize different security functions from multiple =
vendors.
NEW
Without standard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it=
 has become virtually impossible for providers of security services to auto=
mate service offerings that utilize different security functions from multi=
ple vendors.
END
[Linda] that is good with me.=20

OLD
The primary goal of I2NSF is to define an information model, a set of softw=
are interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring aspects of ph=
ysical and virtual NSFs.
COMMENT
I suggest we adopt the language used in existing charters to discuss inform=
ation models so that the WG is not obliged to produce an information model,=
 but can do if it considers it necessary.
NEW
The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data models=
 for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs. If th=
e working group finds it necessary to work on an information model before t=
he data models, to help provide guidance and derive the data models, it may=
 do so. The working group will decide later whether the information model n=
eeds to be published as an RFC.
END

[Linda] good suggestion.=20

Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and configura=
tion, are out of scope.=20

INSERT
<paragraph break>
END

Controlling and monitoring of NSFs should include the ability to specify, q=
uery, monitor, and control the NSFs by one or more management entities. Sin=
ce different security vendors support different features and functions on t=
heir devices, I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to=
 packets/flows, such as IPS/IDS

COMMENT
need to expand "IPS/IDS"
END

, Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matchin=
g and remediation.=20

OLD
There are two layers of interfaces envisioned in the I2NSF approach:
NEW
I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control and =
monitoring of network security functions:
END
[Linda] agree.=20

OLD
. The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at a=
 functional implementation level. That is, I2NSF will standardize a set of =
interfaces by which a security controller can control and manage NSFs may b=
e invoked, operated, and monitored. (I2NSF will not at this stage specify h=
ow to derive control and monitoring capabilities from higher level security=
 policies for the Capability Layer.) COMMENT Text about operation of the se=
curity controller to produce capabilities for the Capability Layer moved to=
 next bullet.
NEW
. The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at a=
 functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of interface=
s by which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.=20
END

[Linda] so we don't need to emphasize that "(I2NSF will not at this stage s=
pecify how to derive control and monitoring capabilities from higher level =
security policies for the Capability Layer)"?

OLD
. The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be exp=
ressed and monitored to a security controller that uses the capability laye=
r to control and manage NSFs to implement these policies.=A0 Describing a s=
imple service layer modeled as closely as possible on the capability layer =
is within scope.=A0 With this simple service layers, security controllers m=
ight handle issues like multi-tenancy concerns, and choosing which of the a=
vailable NSFs to use for a given policy.=A0 Expressing policies in ways oth=
er than the model used by the capability layer is out of scope. =A0However,=
 I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, =
etc. that demonstrate how more complex service layer policies and policies =
in other formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.
NEW
. The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be exp=
ressed a security controller that uses the capability layer to control and =
manage NSFs to implement these policies.  It also allows the client to moni=
tor those policies. I2NSF will not specify how a security controller maps s=
ecurity service requests at the Service Layer to control and management act=
ions at the Capability Layer, but the development of a Simple Service Layer=
 model that is modelled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer is w=
ithin scope.  Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller=
s to handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs=
 for a given policy.
Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Capability Lay=
er is out of scope, however I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational dr=
afts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service L=
ayer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.
END

[Linda] do you mean " The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security=
 policies may be expressed" to "a security controller"?=20


COMMENT
The following list of tasks duplicates the deliverables. Merge the content =
and include it below.
DELETE
The concrete work at the I2NSF Capability Layer includes development of

. An information model that defines concepts required for standardizing the=
 control and monitoring of NSFs.
. A set of YANG data models, derived from the above information model.
. The capability registry (IANA) that enables the characteristics and behav=
ior of NSFs to be specified using a vendor-neutral vocabulary without requi=
ring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The registry enables various m=
echanisms, including policy rules, to be used to match monitor and control =
functions to the needs of an application and/or environment.
. Examining the existing secure communication mechanisms to identify the ap=
propriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring information betw=
een the NSFs and their management entity (or entities).

[Linda] do you mean deleting all the bullets above?


OLD
Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs are=
 essential building blocks for Security Service Providers to automate the u=
se of different NSFs from multiple vendors by their Security management ent=
ities. This work will leverage the existing protocols and data models defin=
ed by I2RS, Netconf, and NETMOD. If extensions to these protocols are neede=
d, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be de=
veloped in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
NEW
Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs are=
 essential building blocks for providers of security service to automate th=
e use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will leverage the =
existing protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD=
 working groups. If extensions to these protocols or data models are needed=
, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be dev=
eloped in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
END

The I2NSF WG's deliverables include:

OLD
- Use cases, problem statement, gap analysis document [The WG will decide i=
f to proceed as RFC].
- Framework Document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and the pur=
pose of the models developed by the WG [The WG will decide if to proceed as=
 RFC].
- A single, unified, Information Model for controlling and monitoring flow-=
based NSFs.
- Corresponding YANG Data Models derived from the above Information Model.
- IANA registry consideration for flow-based NSFs controlling and monitorin=
g capabilities.[maybe merged into data models] NEW
- A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis=
 document. This document will initially be produced for reference as a livi=
ng list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide to not publish t=
his document as an RFC.

[Linda] Is it important to be "one single document" to cover the 3 existing=
 drafts (use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis)?=20

- A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and the p=
urpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will also be a refe=
rence text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to not publish this=
 document as an RFC.
- If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, Informati=
on Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based NSFs.
- YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
- Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables the char=
acteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a vendor-neutral voc=
abulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The regis=
try enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, to be used to match=
 monitor and control functions to the needs of an application and/or enviro=
nment.
- An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify th=
e appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring information =
between the NSFs and their management entities. This document may also be p=
roduced as a working document that is not published as an RFC.
END

OLD
The WG may additionally choose to develop additional documents to describe =
requirements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, =
and how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, an=
d to describe how to use I2RS, Netconf, and NETMOD to carry the content of =
the data models.
NEW
The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe requirement=
s for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to explain =
how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and to=
 describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of the data mode=
ls. These documents may be published as Informational RFCs of may be workin=
g documents that are discarded once they have triggered the necessary work.
END

DELETE
[The WG may decide that the Use cases, Framework, and gap analysis are simp=
ly reference documents during the lifetime of the WG and not to be publishe=
d as an RFC.] END

OLD
The WG will work closely with I2RS, Netconf and Netmod WGs. The WG will com=
municate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open source co=
de development related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF, OpenStack=
, ODL, and OPNFV.
NEW
The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG wil=
l communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open sour=
ce code development related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF, Open=
Stack, ODL, and OPNFV.
END

COMMENT
These milestones are ambiguous. Do we mean:
- someone writes a document
- the WG adopts a document
- the WG males a publication request
- the RFC is published?
I think all that is needed is to add the clarity.
END

Suggested Milestones

=A0 - Use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis Document:=A0 Charter t=
ime + 1 month
=A0 - Framework: Charter time + 4 months to WG Document
=A0 - Requirements for extensions to protocols:=A0 Charter time + 8 months =
to WG document
=A0 - Info model: Charter time + 8 months to WG Document
=A0 - IANA registry consideration + 12 months to WG Document
=A0 - All Early Drafts to IESG: 18 months


[decision point - +10 months]=A0=20

=A0 - Data Models: Charter + 9 Months to WG Document
=A0 - Applicability Statements: 10 months to WG Document
=A0 - Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG=A0 - 18 months



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Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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From: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "dwing@cisco.com" <dwing@cisco.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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Hi,=20

My comments are based on the charter at: https://sites.google.com/site/inte=
rface2nsf/

Hope they help.

BR,=20
Daniel

A) I agree that configuration should be out of scope. I would add the follo=
wing text.

Controlling and monitoring [...] management entities.=20
ADDED TEXT: Unlike configuration of NSF, I2NSF provides facilities to chang=
e and update the internal states of the NSF.
Since different security [...]=20

B)
OLD CHARTER TEXT
"The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at a =
functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of interfaces=
 by which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs."

I think we should clarify functional implementation level. My understanding=
 is that the I2NSF Capability Layer should inform the tenants of the differ=
ent available NSF as well as the various available associated options, prof=
iles...


C)
OLD CHARTER TEXT
"The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be expr=
essed to a security controller that uses the capability layer to control an=
d manage NSFs to implement these policies.  "

Maybe we could write:
"The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be expr=
essed to a security controller. The controller implements its policies acco=
rding to the various a capabilities provided by the I2NSF Capability Layer.=
"

OLD CHARTER TEXT
"It also allows the client to monitor those policies. I2NSF will not specif=
y how a security controller maps security service requests at the Service L=
ayer to control and management actions at the Capability Layer, but the dev=
elopment of a Simple Service Layer model that is modeled as closely as poss=
ible on the Capability Layer is within scope.  Such a Simple Service Layer =
will enable a security controller to handle issues like multi-tenancy and t=
he choice between available NSFs for a given policy"

This is not very clear to me what is in scope and is not. At least my under=
standing is:
I2NFS will not define how tenants' NSF requests at the Service Layer are de=
clined in Capability Layer this is left to the controller which is implemen=
tation dependent.  Instead, I2NFS considers that tenants policies should be=
 based on information provided by the Capability Layer. I2NSF will provide =
guidance based on a simple service to define a models that eases interactio=
ns between the Service Layer  and the Capability Layer.






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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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On 05-Aug-2015 10:08 am, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
> Dan,=20
>=20
> Thank you very much for the comments.=20
>=20
> Can you check the latest version of the I2NSF charter and see if your =
concerns have been addressed?=20
>=20
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/

1. No, it still says "controlling aspects" (second paragraph, first =
sentence).  It isn't clear what those aspects are.  The word 'aspects' =
only appears twice in the charter text.

2. Yes, the IANA stuff isn't duplicated now.  Thanks.


One other thing I just noticed, "one or more management entities."  Is =
i2nsf going to solve the database update and synchronization problem?  =
This seems complicated.  That is, does i2nsf need to support multiple =
management entities controlling a NSF, and does i2nsf need to tell those =
other management entities of changes done by another entity?

-d


>=20
> Linda
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ??Dan Wing
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 4:11 PM
> To: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
>=20
> Based on https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home that I am =
looking at now, I have two questions,
>=20
> 1.  "The primary goal of I2NSF is to define an information model, a =
set of software interfaces and data models for controlling and =
monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs."
>=20
> Should that say "... and monitoring SECURITY aspects ...", as was in =
Strassner's =
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00388.html?
>=20
> Even with the edit to become "security aspects", I am uncomfortable =
where the line is drawn between a "security aspect" (in scope of i2nsf) =
and "other aspects" (out of scope of i2nsf).  For example, 'remediation' =
is mentioned at the end of the same paragraph, and remediation could =
involve sending a compromised host to a "remediation portal".  Would =
that steering of the user's traffic be a "security aspect" or an "other =
aspect", and does that answer depend on if the function is accomplished =
by reconfiguring network switches or if the function is internal to the =
NSF itself.
>=20
>=20
> 2. There are two places where IANA registry is mentioned, once in =
'concrete work' and again in 'deliverables'.  The text differs.  Is this =
two registries, or one registry?  Can the charter text be clarified if =
these are two registries or one?
>=20
> -d
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
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Thread-Topic: I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available
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Hi,

Joe consolidated the notes taken by Sue and Joe (thanks, all!) and made the=
 draft minutes available at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/min=
utes-93-i2nsf. Please read and let us know if anything important is missing=
 or was mis-represented.

Regards,

Dan


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joe consolidated the notes taken by Sue and Joe (tha=
nks, all!) and made the draft minutes available at
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-i2nsf">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-i2nsf</a>. Please read=
 and let us know if anything important is missing or was mis-represented.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From nobody Wed Aug 12 15:38:47 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available
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Dan,

Thank you very much for chairing the I2NSF BOF and compiled the meeting min=
utes.

Just a minor correction: it is Da Cheng Zhang (Alibaba) that presented the =
Capability Index topic.

Linda

From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Romascanu, Dan (Da=
n)
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 7:02 AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available

Hi,

Joe consolidated the notes taken by Sue and Joe (thanks, all!) and made the=
 draft minutes available at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/min=
utes-93-i2nsf. Please read and let us know if anything important is missing=
 or was mis-represented.

Regards,

Dan


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dan, <o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank you very much fo=
r chairing the I2NSF BOF and compiled the meeting minutes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Just a minor correctio=
n: it is Da Cheng Zhang (Alibaba) that presented the Capability Index topic=
.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Linda<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> I2nsf [m=
ailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Romascanu, Dan (Dan)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 7:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [I2nsf] I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joe consolidated the notes taken by Sue and Joe (tha=
nks, all!) and made the draft minutes available at
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-i2nsf">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-i2nsf</a>. Please read=
 and let us know if anything important is missing or was mis-represented.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Sdn] new draft on SDN for DDoS mitigation
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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:45:39 +0000
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Subject: [I2nsf] FW: [Sdn] new draft on SDN for DDoS mitigation
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Hi,

>From the SDNRG mail list.=20

This I-D is interesting, I believe - looks like another I2NSF use case.=20

Regards,

Dan


> -----Original Message-----
> From: sdn [mailto:sdn-bounces@mail.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wesley Eddy
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 4:17 PM
> To: sdn@irtf.org
> Cc: gclark mti-systems.com; Justin Dailey
> Subject: [Sdn] new draft on SDN for DDoS mitigation
>=20
> Hello, we wanted to make people aware of a new I-D that uses SDN (or more
> specifically OpenFlow) as a tool to improve DDoS mitigation:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eddy-sdnrg-customer-filters/
>=20
> The interesting part of this for SDNRG is probably the sub-controller con=
cept,
> which is how we allow OpenFlow to be used inter-domain (for customers to
> control aspects of their ISP's network), and the three- stage organizatio=
n of
> flow tables.
>=20
> The content is fairly specific to DDoS, but could be extended and general=
ized
> for other uses.
>=20
> Much of the other interdomain SDN work has the ISPs setting up virtual
> networks for each customer, or slice-based constructions, which are not
> required by this sub-controller approach.  It may be of interest as an
> alternative construction with its own set of advantages and disadvantages=
 in
> comparison to other interdomain SDN approaches.
>=20
> We're eager to hear your comments, criticisms, and questions.
>=20
> --
> Wes Eddy
> MTI Systems
>=20


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From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" <dromasca@avaya.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
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Hi Linda,

Actually Joe was the one who compiled the meeting minutes.

Regards,

Dan


From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 1:37 AM
To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan); i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available

Dan,

Thank you very much for chairing the I2NSF BOF and compiled the meeting min=
utes.

Just a minor correction: it is Da Cheng Zhang (Alibaba) that presented the =
Capability Index topic.

Linda

From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Romascanu, Dan (Da=
n)
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 7:02 AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Subject: [I2nsf] I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available

Hi,

Joe consolidated the notes taken by Sue and Joe (thanks, all!) and made the=
 draft minutes available at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/min=
utes-93-i2nsf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ie=
tf.org_proceedings_93_minutes_minutes-2D93-2Di2nsf&d=3DBQMFAg&c=3DBFpWQw8bs=
uKpl1SgiZH64Q&r=3DI4dzGxR31OcNXCJfQzvlsiLQfucBXRucPvdrphpBsFA&m=3DjPaIjezA3=
n1VpOowwzuB1BFfqoc9gt0MtbI5dZIaNHE&s=3Dh-5QIpCB9dQAYtTdz_kAMPBUgvcYT_aXGJzJ=
Ulrh1ug&e=3D>. Please read and let us know if anything important is missing=
 or was mis-represented.

Regards,

Dan


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Linda,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Actually Joe was the o=
ne who compiled the meeting minutes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dan<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
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<div>
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Linda Du=
nbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 13, 2015 1:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Romascanu, Dan (Dan); i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dan, <o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank you very much fo=
r chairing the I2NSF BOF and compiled the meeting minutes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Just a minor correctio=
n: it is Da Cheng Zhang (Alibaba) that presented the Capability Index topic=
.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Linda<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> I2nsf [<=
a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Romascanu, Dan (Dan)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2015 7:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [I2nsf] I2NSF BOF draft minutes now available<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joe consolidated the notes taken by Sue and Joe (tha=
nks, all!) and made the draft minutes available at
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.=
org_proceedings_93_minutes_minutes-2D93-2Di2nsf&amp;d=3DBQMFAg&amp;c=3DBFpW=
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AMPBUgvcYT_aXGJzJUlrh1ug&amp;e=3D">
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-i2nsf</a>. Please re=
ad and let us know if anything important is missing or was mis-represented.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5CAF9F7FAZFFEXMB04globa_--


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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "dwing@cisco.com" <dwing@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>, "dwing@cisco.com" <dwing@cisco.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
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Daniel,

Thank you very much for the suggested charter text.
Some questions and comments are inserted below:

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Migault [mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 3:37 PM
To: Linda Dunbar; dwing@cisco.com; i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback

Hi,

My comments are based on the charter at: https://sites.google.com/site/inte=
rface2nsf/

Hope they help.

BR,
Daniel

A) I agree that configuration should be out of scope. I would add the follo=
wing text.

Controlling and monitoring [...] management entities.
ADDED TEXT: Unlike configuration of NSF, I2NSF provides facilities to chang=
e and update the internal states of the NSF.
Since different security [...]

[Linda] The last sentence of the current charter already has the sentence: =
" Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and configu=
ration, are out of scope." Do you think it is enough? I am hesitated to put=
 "Internal States of the NSF" in the charter, because there could be many t=
ypes of interpretations depending on the background of readers, e.g. "Inter=
nal NSF memory states, Internal NSF ports states", etc. "Controlling aspect=
s" is referring to "rules to be enforced for traffic traversed through the =
NSFs".


B)
OLD CHARTER TEXT
"The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at a =
functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of interfaces=
 by which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs."

I think we should clarify functional implementation level. My understanding=
 is that the I2NSF Capability Layer should inform the tenants of the differ=
ent available NSF as well as the various available associated options, prof=
iles...
[Linda] The sentence "functional implementation" is the result of many roun=
ds of debate. It is trying to emphasizing that the rules (for control and m=
onitor) to NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs.


C)
OLD CHARTER TEXT
"The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be expr=
essed to a security controller that uses the capability layer to control an=
d manage NSFs to implement these policies.  "

Maybe we could write:
"The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be expr=
essed to a security controller. The controller implements its policies acco=
rding to the various a capabilities provided by the I2NSF Capability Layer.=
"

[Linda] This suggestion is OK with me. I will ask Adrian since the wording =
was proposed by him.


OLD CHARTER TEXT
"It also allows the client to monitor those policies. I2NSF will not specif=
y how a security controller maps security service requests at the Service L=
ayer to control and management actions at the Capability Layer, but the dev=
elopment of a Simple Service Layer model that is modeled as closely as poss=
ible on the Capability Layer is within scope.  Such a Simple Service Layer =
will enable a security controller to handle issues like multi-tenancy and t=
he choice between available NSFs for a given policy"

This is not very clear to me what is in scope and is not.

[Linda] The statement is to say that
-       the translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to Ca=
pability layer comments is out of I2NSF scope, and
-       I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from clie=
nts. Only simple service layer policies that model the "capability layer" c=
ommands are in the scope of I2NSF.
-

At least my understanding is:
I2NFS will not define how tenants' NSF requests at the Service Layer are de=
clined in

[Linda] "declined"???
 Capability Layer this is left to the controller which is implementation de=
pendent.  Instead, I2NFS considers that tenants policies should be based on=
 information provided by the Capability Layer. I2NSF will provide guidance =
based on a simple service to define a models that eases interactions betwee=
n the Service Layer  and the Capability Layer.


[Linda] hope my explanation helps. Please let me know if you have more ques=
tions.

Thanks, Linda






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<div>Daniel, </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thank you very much for the suggested charter text. </div>
<div>Some questions and comments are inserted below:</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Daniel Migault [<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com">mailto=
:daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>]
<br>

Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 3:37 PM<br>

To: Linda Dunbar; dwing@cisco.com; i2nsf@ietf.org<br>

Subject: RE: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Hi, </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>My comments are based on the charter at: <a href=3D"https://sites.goog=
le.com/site/interface2nsf/">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/</a=
></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Hope they help.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>BR, </div>
<div>Daniel</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>A) I agree that configuration should be out of scope. I would add the =
following text.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Controlling and monitoring [...] management entities. </div>
<div>ADDED TEXT: Unlike configuration of NSF, I2NSF provides facilities to =
change and update the internal states of the NSF.</div>
<div>Since different security [...] </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>[Linda] The last sentence of the current charter already has the sente=
nce: &quot; <font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>Other aspects of NSFs, such as devic=
e or network provisioning and configuration, are out of scope.</i></font><f=
ont color=3D"#0070C0"><i>&#8221;</i></font><font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>
</i></font>Do you think it is enough?<font color=3D"#0070C0"><i> </i></font=
>I am hesitated to put &#8220;Internal States of the NSF&#8221; in the char=
ter, because there could be many types of interpretations depending on the =
background of readers, e.g. &#8220;Internal NSF memory
states, Internal NSF ports states&#8221;, etc. &quot;Controlling aspects&qu=
ot; is referring to &quot;rules to be enforced for traffic traversed throug=
h the NSFs&quot;.</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>B)</div>
<div>OLD CHARTER TEXT</div>
<div>&quot;The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor =
NSFs at a functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of =
interfaces by which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor =
NSFs.&quot;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I think we should clarify functional implementation level. My understa=
nding is that the I2NSF Capability Layer should inform the tenants of the d=
ifferent available NSF as well as the various available associated options,=
 profiles...</div>
<div>[Linda] The sentence &#8220;<font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>functional </i>=
</font><font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>implementation</i></font>&#8221; is the r=
esult of many rounds of debate. It is trying to emphasizing that the rules =
(for control and monitor) to NSFs have to be implementable
by most NSFs. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>C)</div>
<div>OLD CHARTER TEXT</div>
<div>&quot;The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies m=
ay be expressed to a security controller that uses the capability layer to =
control and manage NSFs to implement these policies.&nbsp; &quot;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Maybe we could write:</div>
<div>&quot;The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies m=
ay be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its pol=
icies according to the various a capabilities provided by the I2NSF Capabil=
ity Layer.&quot;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>[Linda] This suggestion is OK with me. I will ask Adrian since the wor=
ding was proposed by him. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>OLD CHARTER TEXT</div>
<div>&quot;It also allows the client to monitor those policies. I2NSF will =
not specify how a security controller maps security service requests at the=
 Service Layer to control and management actions at the Capability Layer, b=
ut the development of a Simple Service
Layer model that is modeled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer =
is within scope.&nbsp; Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security c=
ontroller to handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between availa=
ble NSFs for a given policy&quot;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>This is not very clear to me what is in scope and is not. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>[Linda] The statement is to say that </div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<li>the translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to Capabi=
lity layer comments is out of I2NSF scope, and</li><li>I2NSF will not speci=
fy abstract or sophisticated policies from clients. Only simple service lay=
er policies that model the &#8220;capability layer&#8221; commands are in t=
he scope of I2NSF. </li><li>&nbsp;</li></ul>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>At least my understanding is:</div>
<div>I2NFS will not define how tenants' NSF requests at the Service Layer a=
re declined in</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>[Linda] &#8220;declined&#8221;???</div>
<div> Capability Layer this is left to the controller which is implementati=
on dependent.&nbsp; Instead, I2NFS considers that tenants policies should b=
e based on information provided by the Capability Layer. I2NSF will provide=
 guidance based on a simple service to
define a models that eases interactions between the Service Layer&nbsp; and=
 the Capability Layer.</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>[Linda] hope my explanation helps. Please let me know if you have more=
 questions. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Thanks, Linda</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
</span></font>
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On 13-Aug-2015 08:50 am, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
> Dan,=20
>=20
> Sorry for the late response, I just came back from a 2-week vacation.=20=

>=20
> Reply to your comments are inserted below:
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ??Dan Wing
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 8:03 PM
> To: Linda Dunbar
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
>=20
>=20
> On 05-Aug-2015 10:08 am, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Dan,=20
>>=20
>> Thank you very much for the comments.=20
>>=20
>> Can you check the latest version of the I2NSF charter and see if your =
concerns have been addressed?=20
>>=20
>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/
>=20
> 1. No, it still says "controlling aspects" (second paragraph, first =
sentence).  It isn't clear what those aspects are.  The word 'aspects' =
only appears twice in the charter text.
>=20
> [Linda] "Controlling aspects" is referring to "rules to be enforced =
for traffic traversed through the NSFs".
> It is emphasized here to differentiate from "device level =
configuration", such as the device's own network addresses, timer, =
ports, etc.=20


Yes, I agree the last sentence in that paragraph which says:
  "Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and =
configuration, are out of scope."
declares what aspects are out of scope.

But the charter text does not identify which aspects are *in scope*.


> 2. Yes, the IANA stuff isn't duplicated now.  Thanks.
>=20
>=20
> One other thing I just noticed, "one or more management entities."  Is =
i2nsf going to solve the database update and synchronization problem?  =
This seems complicated.  That is, does i2nsf need to support multiple =
management entities controlling a NSF, and does i2nsf need to tell those =
other management entities of changes done by another entity?
>=20
> [Linda] No, "Database update and synchronization" is definitely out of =
I2NSF scope.=20
> "one or more management entities" is referring to that I2NSF agent CAN =
get rule requests more than one entities (or I2NSF clients).=20

Can the charter make that clearer, please?

-d


>=20
> Let me know if you have more questions.=20
>=20
> -d
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Linda
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ??Dan Wing
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 4:11 PM
>> To: i2nsf@ietf.org
>> Subject: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
>>=20
>> Based on https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home that I am =
looking at now, I have two questions,
>>=20
>> 1.  "The primary goal of I2NSF is to define an information model, a =
set of software interfaces and data models for controlling and =
monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs."
>>=20
>> Should that say "... and monitoring SECURITY aspects ...", as was in =
Strassner's =
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00388.html?
>>=20
>> Even with the edit to become "security aspects", I am uncomfortable =
where the line is drawn between a "security aspect" (in scope of i2nsf) =
and "other aspects" (out of scope of i2nsf).  For example, 'remediation' =
is mentioned at the end of the same paragraph, and remediation could =
involve sending a compromised host to a "remediation portal".  Would =
that steering of the user's traffic be a "security aspect" or an "other =
aspect", and does that answer depend on if the function is accomplished =
by reconfiguring network switches or if the function is internal to the =
NSF itself.
>>=20
>>=20
>> 2. There are two places where IANA registry is mentioned, once in =
'concrete work' and again in 'deliverables'.  The text differs.  Is this =
two registries, or one registry?  Can the charter text be clarified if =
these are two registries or one?
>>=20
>> -d
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



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Hi Daniel, Linda,

>> C)
>> OLD CHARTER TEXT
>> "The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may =
be=20
>> expressed to a security controller that uses the capability layer to =
control
>> and manage NSFs to implement these policies.=A0 "
>>
>> Maybe we could write:
>> "The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may =
be
>> expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its =
policies
>> according to the various a capabilities provided by the I2NSF =
Capability
>> Layer."
>
> [Linda] This suggestion is OK with me. I will ask Adrian since the =
wording
> was proposed by him.=20

Thanks for checking.
Daniel's proposal works for me.
=A0
Cheers,
Adrian


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Hi Linda,

Thanks for the response and clarification. Please see my comments in line.


BR,
Daniel

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
wrote:

> Daniel,
>
> Thank you very much for the suggested charter text.
> Some questions and comments are inserted below:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Migault [mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com
> <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 3:37 PM
> To: Linda Dunbar; dwing@cisco.com; i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
>
> Hi,
>
> My comments are based on the charter at:
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/
>
> Hope they help.
>
> BR,
> Daniel
>
> A) I agree that configuration should be out of scope. I would add the
> following text.
>
> Controlling and monitoring [...] management entities.
> ADDED TEXT: Unlike configuration of NSF, I2NSF provides facilities to
> change and update the internal states of the NSF.
> Since different security [...]
>
> [Linda] The last sentence of the current charter already has the sentence=
:
> " *Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and
> configuration, are out of scope.**=E2=80=9D* Do you think it is enough? I=
 am
> hesitated to put =E2=80=9CInternal States of the NSF=E2=80=9D in the char=
ter, because there
> could be many types of interpretations depending on the background of
> readers, e.g. =E2=80=9CInternal NSF memory states, Internal NSF ports sta=
tes=E2=80=9D, etc.
> "Controlling aspects" is referring to "rules to be enforced for traffic
> traversed through the NSFs".
>
>
[Daniel] I have no strong opinion. If it does not clarify things, then we
could leave it.

>
> B)
> OLD CHARTER TEXT
> "The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at =
a
> functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of interfac=
es
> by which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs."
>
> I think we should clarify functional implementation level. My
> understanding is that the I2NSF Capability Layer should inform the tenant=
s
> of the different available NSF as well as the various available associate=
d
> options, profiles...
> [Linda] The sentence =E2=80=9C*functional **implementation*=E2=80=9D is t=
he result of
> many rounds of debate. It is trying to emphasizing that the rules (for
> control and monitor) to NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs.
>

[Daniel] I find you sentence very clear. I think it would nice to add it in
the charter to clarify what functional implementation means.

>
>
> C)
> OLD CHARTER TEXT
> "The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be
> expressed to a security controller that uses the capability layer to
> control and manage NSFs to implement these policies.  "
>
> Maybe we could write:
> "The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients' security policies may be
> expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its policie=
s
> according to the various a capabilities provided by the I2NSF Capability
> Layer."
>
> [Linda] This suggestion is OK with me. I will ask Adrian since the wordin=
g
> was proposed by him.
>
>
> OLD CHARTER TEXT
> "It also allows the client to monitor those policies. I2NSF will not
> specify how a security controller maps security service requests at the
> Service Layer to control and management actions at the Capability Layer,
>

[Daniel] Maybe having two sentences. One for what is not in scope and
another sentecne for what is in scope would be helpful. This shoudl be one
sentence. The next one shoudl define what is in scope. Th ebullet you
propose where much clearer to me.

but the development of a Simple Service Layer model that is modeled as
> closely as possible on the Capability Layer is within scope.  Such a Simp=
le
> Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle issues like
> multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a given policy"
>
> This is not very clear to me what is in scope and is not.
>
> [Linda] The statement is to say that
>
>    - the translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to
>    Capability layer comments is out of I2NSF scope, and
>    - I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from
>    clients. Only simple service layer policies that model the =E2=80=9Cca=
pability
>    layer=E2=80=9D commands are in the scope of I2NSF.
>    -
>
>
>
At least my understanding is:
> I2NFS will not define how tenants' NSF requests at the Service Layer are
> declined in
>
> [Linda] =E2=80=9Cdeclined=E2=80=9D???
>
[Daniel] I think I meant defined. bu the bullets were clear.

Capability Layer this is left to the controller which is implementation
> dependent.  Instead, I2NFS considers that tenants policies should be base=
d
> on information provided by the Capability Layer. I2NSF will provide
> guidance based on a simple service to define a models that eases
> interactions between the Service Layer  and the Capability Layer.
>
>
> [Linda] hope my explanation helps. Please let me know if you have more
> questions.
>
> Thanks, Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>

--001a1140ea8696e26e051d717e39
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi Linda, <br><br></div>Thanks for the resp=
onse and clarification. Please see my comments in line.<br><br><br></div>BR=
, <br></div>Daniel<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Linda Dunbar <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@hu=
awei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">






<div>
<font face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">
<div>Daniel, </div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Thank you very much for the suggested charter text. </div>
<div>Some questions and comments are inserted below:</div><span class=3D"">
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div>-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Daniel Migault [<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com" target=
=3D"_blank">mailto:daniel.migault@ericsson.com</a>]
<br>

Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 3:37 PM<br>

To: Linda Dunbar; <a href=3D"mailto:dwing@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">dwin=
g@cisco.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@=
ietf.org</a><br>

Subject: RE: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div>Hi, </div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>My comments are based on the charter at: <a href=3D"https://sites.goog=
le.com/site/interface2nsf/" target=3D"_blank">https://sites.google.com/site=
/interface2nsf/</a></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div>Hope they help.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>BR, </div>
<div>Daniel</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>A) I agree that configuration should be out of scope. I would add the =
following text.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Controlling and monitoring [...] management entities. </div>
<div>ADDED TEXT: Unlike configuration of NSF, I2NSF provides facilities to =
change and update the internal states of the NSF.</div>
<div>Since different security [...] </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
</span><div>[Linda] The last sentence of the current charter already has th=
e sentence: &quot; <font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>Other aspects of NSFs, such a=
s device or network provisioning and configuration, are out of scope.</i></=
font><font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>=E2=80=9D</i></font><font color=3D"#0070C0"=
><i>
</i></font>Do you think it is enough?<font color=3D"#0070C0"><i> </i></font=
>I am hesitated to put =E2=80=9CInternal States of the NSF=E2=80=9D in the =
charter, because there could be many types of interpretations depending on =
the background of readers, e.g. =E2=80=9CInternal NSF memory
states, Internal NSF ports states=E2=80=9D, etc. &quot;Controlling aspects&=
quot; is referring to &quot;rules to be enforced for traffic traversed thro=
ugh the NSFs&quot;.</div><span class=3D"">
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman"></font></div></span></span></font></div=
></blockquote><div>[Daniel] I have no strong opinion. If it does not clarif=
y things, then we could leave it. =C2=A0 <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div><font face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt"><span class=3D""><div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></di=
v>
<div>B)</div>
<div>OLD CHARTER TEXT</div>
<div>&quot;The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor =
NSFs at a functional implementation level. I2NSF will standardize a set of =
interfaces by which a security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor =
NSFs.&quot;</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I think we should clarify functional implementation level. My understa=
nding is that the I2NSF Capability Layer should inform the tenants of the d=
ifferent available NSF as well as the various available associated options,=
 profiles...</div>
</span><div>[Linda] The sentence =E2=80=9C<font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>functi=
onal </i></font><font color=3D"#0070C0"><i>implementation</i></font>=E2=80=
=9D is the result of many rounds of debate. It is trying to emphasizing tha=
t the rules (for control and monitor) to NSFs have to be implementable
by most NSFs. </div></span></font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[D=
aniel] I find you sentence very clear. I think it would nice to add it in t=
he charter to clarify what functional implementation means. =C2=A0 <br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><span class=3D"">
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div>C)</div>
<div>OLD CHARTER TEXT</div>
<div>&quot;The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients&#39; security polici=
es may be expressed to a security controller that uses the capability layer=
 to control and manage NSFs to implement these policies.=C2=A0 &quot;</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Maybe we could write:</div>
<div>&quot;The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients&#39; security polici=
es may be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its=
 policies according to the various a capabilities provided by the I2NSF Cap=
ability Layer.&quot;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
</span><div>[Linda] This suggestion is OK with me. I will ask Adrian since =
the wording was proposed by him. </div><span class=3D"">
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div>OLD CHARTER TEXT</div>
<div>&quot;It also allows the client to monitor those policies. I2NSF will =
not specify how a security controller maps security service requests at the=
 Service Layer to control and management actions at the Capability Layer,</=
div></span></span></font></div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div>[Daniel] =
Maybe having two sentences. One for what is not in scope and another sentec=
ne for what is in scope would be helpful. This shoudl be one sentence. The =
next one shoudl define what is in scope. Th ebullet you propose where much =
clearer to me. <br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font face=
=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><span class=3D"">=
<div> but the development of a Simple Service
Layer model that is modeled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer =
is within scope.=C2=A0 Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security c=
ontroller to handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between availa=
ble NSFs for a given policy&quot;</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>This is not very clear to me what is in scope and is not. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
</span><div>[Linda] The statement is to say that </div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt">
<li>the translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to Capabi=
lity layer comments is out of I2NSF scope, and</li><li>I2NSF will not speci=
fy abstract or sophisticated policies from clients. Only simple service lay=
er policies that model the =E2=80=9Ccapability layer=E2=80=9D commands are =
in the scope of I2NSF. </li><li>=C2=A0</li></ul><span class=3D"">
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div></span></span></font=
></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font face=3D"Conso=
las" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><span class=3D"">
<div>At least my understanding is:</div>
<div>I2NFS will not define how tenants&#39; NSF requests at the Service Lay=
er are declined in</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
</span><div>[Linda] =E2=80=9Cdeclined=E2=80=9D???</div></span></font></div>=
</blockquote><div>[Daniel] I think I meant defined. bu the bullets were cle=
ar.<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><font face=3D"Consolas=
" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt"><span class=3D"">
<div> Capability Layer this is left to the controller which is implementati=
on dependent.=C2=A0 Instead, I2NFS considers that tenants policies should b=
e based on information provided by the Capability Layer. I2NSF will provide=
 guidance based on a simple service to
define a models that eases interactions between the Service Layer=C2=A0 and=
 the Capability Layer.</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
</span><div>[Linda] hope my explanation helps. Please let me know if you ha=
ve more questions. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div>Thanks, Linda</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=C2=A0</font></div>
</span></font>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "dwing@cisco.com" <dwing@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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From nobody Mon Aug 17 09:57:05 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Daniel Migault <daniel.migault@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:56:55 +0000
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References: <B61DDA58-466D-4C2E-A673-BE99506D5B46@cisco.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D09E63@dfweml701-chm> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C11213E25A@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D0C8BD@dfweml701-chm> <CADZyTkmA2WMLyUcWWhs_mom3b3LnqecV97KuF0ZwL1RhaL_qdw@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] i2nsf charter feedback
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Thanks.
-d

On 17-Aug-2015 12:56 pm, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> wrote:=20=

> Dan,
> =20
> Thanks for your comments. I have updated the charter per your =
suggestions, and posted to the I2NSF Wiki page: =
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home?pli=3D1 =
<https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home?pli=3D1>
> =20
> =20
> The charter changes are reiterated below to make it easier for your =
review:
> =20
> Linda
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [mailto:dwing@cisco.com =
<mailto:dwing@cisco.com>]=20
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:36 PM
> >
> > 1. No, it still says "controlling aspects" (second paragraph, first =
sentence).  It isn't clear what those aspects are.  The word 'aspects' =
only appears twice in the charter text.
> >
> > [Linda] "Controlling aspects" is referring to "rules to be enforced =
for traffic traversed through the NSFs".
> > It is emphasized here to differentiate from "device level =
configuration", such as the device's own network addresses, timer, =
ports, etc.
> =20
> =20
> Yes, I agree the last sentence in that paragraph which says:
>   "Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and =
configuration, are out of scope."
> declares what aspects are out of scope.
> =20
> But the charter text does not identify which aspects are *in scope*.
> =20
> [Linda] Thanks. I modified the text just to elaborate the meaning of =
"controlling and monitoring aspects":
> =20
> Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to =
specify rules, query, and monitor to NSFs by one or more management =
entities.
> =20
> Added a new paragraph to emphasize what is in the scope:
> =E2=80=A2       Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are =
modeled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer are within the =
scope.  Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to =
handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs =
for a given policy.
> =E2=80=A2       I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated =
policies from clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model =
used by the Capability Layer is out of scope.
> =E2=80=A2       The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer =
policies to Capability layer comments are out of I2NSF scope.
> =E2=80=A2       However I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational =
drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex =
Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer =
functions.
> =20
> =20
> =20
> > 2. Yes, the IANA stuff isn't duplicated now.  Thanks.
> >
> >
> > One other thing I just noticed, "one or more management entities."  =
Is i2nsf going to solve the database update and synchronization problem? =
 This seems complicated.  That is, does i2nsf need to support multiple =
management entities controlling a NSF, and does i2nsf need to tell those =
other management entities of changes done by another entity?
> >
> > [Linda] No, "Database update and synchronization" is definitely out =
of I2NSF scope.
> > "one or more management entities" is referring to that I2NSF agent =
CAN get rule requests more than one entities (or I2NSF clients).
> =20
> Can the charter make that clearer, please?
> =20
> [Linda] OK. Added the following sentence:
> =20
> Note: the Database update and synchronization among multiple =
management entities are out of I2NSF scope
> =20
> Please let me know if you have further questions or suggestions.
> =20
> =20
> Linda
> =20
> =20



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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><div class=3D"">
Thanks.</div><div class=3D"">-d</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">On =
17-Aug-2015 12:56 pm, Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:  <br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D"">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server" class=3D"">=

<!-- converted from rtf -->
<style class=3D""><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: =
4pt; border-left: #800000 2px solid; } --></style>

<div class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Dan, </div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks for your comments. I have updated the charter per =
your suggestions, and posted to the I2NSF Wiki page: <a =
href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home?pli=3D1" =
class=3D""><font color=3D"blue" class=3D""><u =
class=3D"">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home?pli=3D1</u></f=
ont></a></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D"">The charter changes are reiterated below to make it =
easier for your review:</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D"">Linda</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">

From: =F0=9F=94=93Dan Wing [<a href=3D"mailto:dwing@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">mailto:dwing@cisco.com</a>] <br class=3D"">

Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:36 PM<br class=3D"">

</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; </div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; 1. No, it still says "controlling aspects" (second =
paragraph, first sentence).&nbsp; It isn't clear what those aspects =
are.&nbsp; The word 'aspects' only appears twice in the charter =
text.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; </div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; [Linda] "Controlling aspects" is referring to =
"rules to be enforced for traffic traversed through the NSFs".</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; It is emphasized here to differentiate from "device =
level configuration", such as the device's own network addresses, timer, =
ports, etc. </div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">Yes, I agree the last sentence in that paragraph which =
says:</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp; "Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network =
provisioning and configuration, are out of scope."</div>
<div class=3D"">declares what aspects are out of scope.</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">But the charter text does not identify which aspects are =
*in scope*.</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D"">[Linda] Thanks. I modified the text just to elaborate =
the meaning of "controlling and monitoring aspects":</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
color=3D"#0070C0" class=3D""><i class=3D"">Controlling and monitoring =
aspects of NSFs include the ability to specify rules, query, and monitor =
to NSFs by one or more management entities.</i></font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;" class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" =
class=3D""><i class=3D"">Added </i><i class=3D"">a new paragraph to =
emphasize what is in the scope:</i></font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:72pt;" class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" =
class=3D""><i class=3D"">=E2=80=A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as closely as =
possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.&nbsp; Such a =
Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle
issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a =
given policy.</i></font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:72pt;" class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" =
class=3D""><i class=3D"">=E2=80=A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from clients. =
Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Capability =
Layer is out of scope. </i></font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:72pt;" class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" =
class=3D""><i class=3D"">=E2=80=A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to =
Capability layer comments are out of I2NSF scope. </i></font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:72pt;" class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" =
class=3D""><i class=3D"">=E2=80=A2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
However I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data =
models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer =
policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer
functions.</i></font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New =
Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; 2. Yes, the IANA stuff isn't duplicated now.&nbsp; =
Thanks.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; </div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; </div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; One other thing I just noticed, "one or more =
management entities."&nbsp; Is i2nsf going to solve the database update =
and synchronization problem?&nbsp; This seems complicated.&nbsp; That =
is, does i2nsf need to support multiple management entities controlling =
a NSF,
and does i2nsf need to tell those other management entities of changes =
done by another entity?</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; </div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; [Linda] No, "Database update and synchronization" =
is definitely out of I2NSF scope. </div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; "one or more management entities" is referring to =
that I2NSF agent CAN get rule requests more than one entities (or I2NSF =
clients). </div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">Can the charter make that clearer, please?</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" class=3D"">[Linda] OK. Added the =
following sentence:</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left:36pt;" class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
color=3D"#0070C0" class=3D""><i class=3D"">Note: the Database update and =
synchronization among multiple management entities are out of I2NSF =
scope</i></font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font color=3D"#0070C0" class=3D"">Please let me know if =
you have further questions or suggestions. </font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D"">Linda</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div>
</span></font>
</div>

</div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
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Subject: [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft charter
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Hi everyone,



Thanks for the constructive discussions.


I have made an updated draft charter posted at:
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home

 I think this captures all of the points raised on this list and during the
BoF.



Please shout if you think I have missed anything.



Thanks,

Linda

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3=
">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:=
rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-=
size:11pt"><font color=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,25=
5)">Hi everyone,</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New=
 Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">=C2=A0</font></sp=
an></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D=
"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thanks for the co=
nstructive discussions.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Ti=
mes New Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">=C2=A0</font></sp=
an></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D=
"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I have made an =
updated draft charter
posted at: =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/hom=
e">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a> </font></span></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font color=3D=
"#000000"></font></span><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;font-size:11pt"><font color=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(25=
5,255,255)">=C2=A0I think this captures all of the points raised on this
list and during the BoF.</font></span></div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D=
"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">=C2=A0</font></sp=
an></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D=
"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Please shout if y=
ou think I have missed
anything.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman"=
 size=3D"3" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">=C2=A0</font></sp=
an></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" style=3D=
"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thanks,</font></s=
pan></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3" style=
=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:=
rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-=
size:11pt"><font color=3D"#000000" style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,25=
5)">Linda</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman"=
 size=3D"3">

</font></div>

--047d7b2e16315762eb051d9bcc68--


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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>, <i2nsf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft charter
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Thanks Linda,
=20
This is good work.
=20
A typo - Para three line one
s/and monitor to NSFs/and monitor NSFs/
=20
A little tidying on the milestones. I haven't changed any dates, just =
clarified words and re-ordered. I have added "examination of existing =
secure communication mechanisms" as a deliverable.
OLD
  Use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis Document:  Charter time =
+ 1 month
  Framework: Charter time + 4 months to WG Document
  Requirements for extensions to protocols:  Charter time + 8 months to =
WG document
  Info model: Charter time + 8 months to WG Document
  IANA registry consideration + 12 months to WG Document
  All Early Drafts to IESG: 18 months
 [Decision point =E2=80=93 +10 months] =20
=20
  Data Models: Charter + 9 Months to WG Document
  Applicability Statements: 10 months to WG Document
  Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG  - 18 months
NEW
  Use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis to WG Document:  =
Charter time + 1 month
  Framework to WG Document: Charter time + 4 months
  Requirements for extensions to protocols to WG Document:  Charter time =
+ 8 months
  Examination of existing secure communication mechanisms  to WG =
Document: Charter time + 8 months
  Info model to WG Document (if desired): Charter time + 8 months
  Data Models to WG Document: Charter time + 9 Months
  WG decides whether to pursue certain drafts to RFC : Charter time + 10 =
months
    - use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis document
    - framework document
    - information model
    - examination of existing secure communication mechanisms=20
  Applicability Statements to WG Document: Charter time + 10 months=20
  IANA registry consideration to WG Document: Charter time + 12 months=20
  All Early Drafts to IESG for publication (if decided to proceed): =
Charter time + 18 months
    - use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis document
    - framework document
    - information model
    - requirements for extensions to protocols
    - examination of existing secure communication mechanisms=20
  Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG for publication: =
Charter time +18 months
  Working group re-charter or close: Charter time + 24 months
END
=20
=20
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: 18 August 2015 21:31
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft charter
=20
Hi everyone,
=20
Thanks for the constructive discussions.
=20
I have made an updated draft charter posted at:  =
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home=20
=20
 I think this captures all of the points raised on this list and during =
the BoF.
=20
Please shout if you think I have missed anything.
=20
Thanks,
Linda

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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/>
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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>
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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>
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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Grid Accent 5"/>
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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>
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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 6"/>
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UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"32" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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Name=3D"TOC Heading"/>
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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Thanks =
Linda,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
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work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>A typo - Para three line =
one<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>s/and monitor to NSFs/and =
monitor NSFs/<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>A little tidying on the =
milestones. I haven't changed any dates, just clarified words and =
re-ordered. I have added &quot;examination of existing secure =
communication mechanisms&quot; as a deliverable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>OLD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Use Cases, problem statement, =
and gap analysis Document:<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 =
</span>Charter time + 1 month<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Framework: Charter time + 4 =
months to WG Document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Requirements for extensions to =
protocols:<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Charter time + =
8 months to WG document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Info model: Charter time + 8 =
months to WG Document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>IANA registry consideration + =
12 months to WG Document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>All Early Drafts to IESG: 18 =
months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0</span>[Decision point =E2=80=93 +10 =
months]<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>Data Models: Charter + 9 =
Months to WG Document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Applicability Statements: 10 =
months to WG Document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Data Models and Applicability =
Statements to IESG<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>- 18 =
months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>NEW<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Use Cases, problem statement, =
and gap analysis to WG Document:<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 =
</span>Charter time + 1 month<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Framework to WG Document: =
Charter time + 4 months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Requirements for extensions to =
protocols to WG Document:<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 =
</span>Charter time + 8 months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Examination of existing secure =
communication mechanisms <span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0</span>to WG Document: Charter time + 8 =
months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Info model to WG Document (if =
desired): Charter time + 8 months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Data Models to WG Document: =
Charter time + 9 Months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>WG decides whether to pursue =
certain drafts to RFC : Charter time + 10 months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- use cases, =
problem statement, and gap analysis document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- framework =
document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- information =
model<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- examination of =
existing secure communication mechanisms <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>Applicability Statements =
to WG Document: Charter time + 10 months <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>IANA registry =
consideration to WG Document: Charter time + 12 months =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>All Early Drafts to IESG =
for publication (if decided to proceed): Charter time + 18 =
months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- use cases, =
problem statement, and gap analysis document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- framework =
document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- information =
model<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- requirements for =
extensions to protocols<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- examination of =
existing secure communication mechanisms <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>Data Models and =
Applicability Statements to IESG for publication: Charter time +18 =
months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>Working group re-charter or =
close: Charter time + 24 months<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>END<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> I2nsf =
[mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda =
Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> 18 August 2015 21:31<br><b>To:</b> =
i2nsf@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft =
charter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>Hi everyone,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>Thanks for the constructive =
discussions.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>I have made an updated draft charter posted at: =
&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.g=
oogle.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a> =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>&nbsp;I think this captures all of the points raised =
on this list and during the BoF.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>Please shout if you think I have missed =
anything.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;=
background:white'>Linda</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></h=
tml>
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:06:47 -0500
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From: Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft charter
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Adrian,

Thank you very much for the good catch and tidying up the milestone.

The charter on the I2NSF wiki page has been revised per your suggestion:
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home

Cheers,

Linda

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote=
:

> Thanks Linda,
>
>
>
> This is good work.
>
>
>
> A typo - Para three line one
>
> s/and monitor to NSFs/and monitor NSFs/
>
>
>
> A little tidying on the milestones. I haven't changed any dates, just
> clarified words and re-ordered. I have added "examination of existing
> secure communication mechanisms" as a deliverable.
>
> OLD
>
>   Use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis Document:  Charter time
> + 1 month
>
>   Framework: Charter time + 4 months to WG Document
>
>   Requirements for extensions to protocols:  Charter time + 8 months to
> WG document
>
>   Info model: Charter time + 8 months to WG Document
>
>   IANA registry consideration + 12 months to WG Document
>
>   All Early Drafts to IESG: 18 months
>
>  [Decision point =E2=80=93 +10 months]
>
>
>
>   Data Models: Charter + 9 Months to WG Document
>
>   Applicability Statements: 10 months to WG Document
>
>   Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG  - 18 months
>
> NEW
>
>   Use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis to WG Document:  Charter
> time + 1 month
>
>   Framework to WG Document: Charter time + 4 months
>
>   Requirements for extensions to protocols to WG Document:  Charter time
> + 8 months
>
>   Examination of existing secure communication mechanisms  to WG
> Document: Charter time + 8 months
>
>   Info model to WG Document (if desired): Charter time + 8 months
>
>   Data Models to WG Document: Charter time + 9 Months
>
>   WG decides whether to pursue certain drafts to RFC : Charter time + 10
> months
>
>     - use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis document
>
>     - framework document
>
>     - information model
>
>     - examination of existing secure communication mechanisms
>
>   Applicability Statements to WG Document: Charter time + 10 months
>
>   IANA registry consideration to WG Document: Charter time + 12 months
>
>   All Early Drafts to IESG for publication (if decided to proceed):
> Charter time + 18 months
>
>     - use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis document
>
>     - framework document
>
>     - information model
>
>     - requirements for extensions to protocols
>
>     - examination of existing secure communication mechanisms
>
>   Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG for publication:
> Charter time +18 months
>
>   Working group re-charter or close: Charter time + 24 months
>
> END
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Linda Dunbar
> *Sent:* 18 August 2015 21:31
> *To:* i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft charter
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the constructive discussions.
>
>
>
> I have made an updated draft charter posted at:
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>
>
>
>  I think this captures all of the points raised on this list and during
> the BoF.
>
>
>
> Please shout if you think I have missed anything.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linda
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Adrian, </div><div><br></div><div>Thank you very much=
 for the good catch and tidying up the milestone. </div><div><br></div><div=
>The charter on the=C2=A0I2NSF wiki page has been revised per your suggesti=
on: <a href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://si=
tes.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,=
 </div><div><br></div><div>Linda</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Adrian Farrel =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_bla=
nk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Thanks Linda,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">This =
is good work.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">A typo - Para three line one<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">s/and monitor=
 to NSFs/and monitor NSFs/<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">A little tidying on the milestone=
s. I haven&#39;t changed any dates, just clarified words and re-ordered. I =
have added &quot;examination of existing secure communication mechanisms&qu=
ot; as a deliverable.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;font-size:11pt">OLD<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Use Cases, problem st=
atement, and gap analysis Document:<span>=C2=A0 </span>Charter time + 1 mon=
th<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size=
:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Framework: Charter time + 4 months to WG Documen=
t<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(3=
1,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:=
11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Requirements for extensions to protocols:<span>=
=C2=A0 </span>Charter time + 8 months to WG document<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </spa=
n>Info model: Charter time + 8 months to WG Document<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </spa=
n>IANA registry consideration + 12 months to WG Document<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 <=
/span>All Early Drafts to IESG: 18 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0</span>[De=
cision point =E2=80=93 +10 months]<span>=C2=A0 </span><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-siz=
e:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>Data Models: Charter + 9 Months to WG Docu=
ment<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-si=
ze:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Applicability Statements: 10 months to WG Docu=
ment<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-si=
ze:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Data Models and Applicability Statements to IE=
SG<span>=C2=A0 </span>- 18 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">NEW<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Use Case=
s, problem statement, and gap analysis to WG Document:<span>=C2=A0 </span>C=
harter time + 1 month<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Framework to WG Document: Cha=
rter time + 4 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Requirements for extensions to=
 protocols to WG Document:<span>=C2=A0 </span>Charter time + 8 months<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,12=
5);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><=
span>=C2=A0 </span>Examination of existing secure communication mechanisms =
<span>=C2=A0</span>to WG Document: Charter time + 8 months<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=
 </span>Info model to WG Document (if desired): Charter time + 8 months<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"=
><span>=C2=A0 </span>Data Models to WG Document: Charter time + 9 Months<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73=
,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt=
"><span>=C2=A0 </span>WG decides whether to pursue certain drafts to RFC : =
Charter time + 10 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- use cases, p=
roblem statement, and gap analysis document<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </=
span>- framework document<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- information=
 model<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-=
size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- examination of existing secure=
 communication mechanisms <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>Applicability State=
ments to WG Document: Charter time + 10 months <u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</spa=
n>IANA registry consideration to WG Document: Charter time + 12 months <u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"=
><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</span>All Early Drafts to IESG for publication (if deci=
ded to proceed): Charter time + 18 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </s=
pan>- use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis document<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- framework document<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </=
span>- information model<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- requirements=
 for extensions to protocols<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span>- examinat=
ion of existing secure communication mechanisms <u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0</sp=
an>Data Models and Applicability Statements to IESG for publication: Charte=
r time +18 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;font-size:11pt"><span>=C2=A0 </span>Working group re-charter or close=
: Charter time + 24 months<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">END<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p><div style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:no=
ne none none solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue=
;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium=
;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor cu=
rrentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-siz=
e:10pt">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt"> I2nsf [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> 18 August 2015 21:31<br>=
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.o=
rg</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [I2nsf] Updated I2NSF draft charter<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"backg=
round:white;color:black;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;font-size:11pt">Hi everyone,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin=
:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"background:white;color:black;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"background:white;c=
olor:black;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size=
:11pt">Thanks for the constructive discussions.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p =
style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"background:white;color:black;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=
</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"backgro=
und:white;color:black;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;font-size:11pt">I have made an updated draft charter posted at: =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a> </span><u></u><u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"background:white;color:black;font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=A0I think =
this captures all of the points raised on this list and during the BoF.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p></div><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"b=
ackground:white;color:black;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0=
cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"background:white;color:black;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Please shout if you thi=
nk I have missed anything.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0=
cm 0pt"><span style=3D"background:white;color:black;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style=3D"background:white;color:b=
lack;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"=
>Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span styl=
e=3D"background:white;color:black;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Linda</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1141ba04cc6b7e051db2166e--


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I took a look at the charter at
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home .
In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.

First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming
single-headed control (as is common in network management systems or
controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?

Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:

Replace:
"However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data
models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies
and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."
With
"However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on
data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer
policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such
documents would be pursued outside the WG."

Otherwise, it looks reasonable.

Thanks,
Alia

--001a113d23e0299f3e051e1547c1
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I took a look at the charter at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://si=
tes.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
" style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">https://sites.google.com/site/inte=
rface2nsf/home</a>=C2=A0.<br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><div>In=
 general, this looks plausible.=C2=A0 I do have a few comments.</div><div><=
br></div><div>First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NS=
F is assuming single-headed control (as is common in network management sys=
tems or controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Second, I&#39;d propose the following minor modifica=
tion:</div><div><br></div><div>Replace:</div><div>&quot;<span style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24=
px">However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data mo=
dels, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies a=
nd formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.&quot;</span></d=
iv><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D=
"font-size:14px;line-height:24px">With</span></font></div><div><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:24px">&quot;</span></font><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">However, I2NSF wi=
ll provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs=
, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies and formats=
 may be translated to Capability Layer functions.=C2=A0 Such documents woul=
d be pursued outside the WG.&quot;<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24=
px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">Otherwise, it looks reason=
able.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px"><br></span></div><div><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);li=
ne-height:24px">Thanks,</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">Alia</span>=
</div></div>

--001a113d23e0299f3e051e1547c1--


From nobody Mon Aug 24 15:25:07 2015
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Thank Alia for the useful comment.



IMHO, I2NSF should focus on Single-headed control first.



With I2RS one step ahead  in debating/specifying the proper mechanism to
ensure the network integrity with multi-headed control, I2NSF can breathe a
bit. I hope that I2NSF can borrow or simply refer to the multi-headed
control mechanism defined by I2RS when it is finalized.



Thank you for the suggested wording change. I like it. If I don=E2=80=99t h=
ear any
objection, I will change the wiki by tomorrow.



Linda

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

> I took a look at the charter at
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home .
> In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.
>
> First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assumin=
g
> single-headed control (as is common in network management systems or
> controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?
>
> Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:
>
> Replace:
> "However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data
> models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer polici=
es
> and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."
> With
> "However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts
> on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Laye=
r
> policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Su=
ch
> documents would be pursued outside the WG."
>
> Otherwise, it looks reasonable.
>
> Thanks,
> Alia
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>

--089e0115ece2c57078051e161648
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3=
">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Than=
k Alia for the useful comment. </span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"T=
imes New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=
=A0</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">IMHO=
, I2NSF should focus on Single-headed control first. </span></p><font color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=
=A0</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">With=
 I2RS one step ahead <span>=C2=A0</span>in
debating/specifying the proper mechanism to ensure the network integrity wi=
th multi-headed
control, I2NSF can breathe a bit. I hope that I2NSF can borrow or simply re=
fer to
the multi-headed control mechanism defined by I2RS when it is finalized.</s=
pan></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=
=A0</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Than=
k you for the suggested wording change. I like it. If I don=E2=80=99t hear
any objection, I will change the wiki by tomorrow. <span>=C2=A0</span></spa=
n></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">=C2=
=A0</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Lind=
a</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I took a look at =
the charter at=C2=A0<a style=3D"font-size:12.8px" href=3D"https://sites.goo=
gle.com/site/interface2nsf/home" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https=
://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a>=C2=A0.<br style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.8px"><div>In general, this looks plausible.=C2=A0 I do have a few comm=
ents.</div><div><br></div><div>First, could you consider and add clarity ar=
ound whether I2NSF is assuming single-headed control (as is common in netwo=
rk management systems or controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (=
as I2RS does)?</div><div><br></div><div>Second, I&#39;d propose the followi=
ng minor modification:</div><div><br></div><div>Replace:</div><div>&quot;<s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;font-size:10.5pt">However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational =
drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service=
 Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions=
.&quot;</span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-seri=
f"><span style=3D"line-height:24px;font-size:14px">With</span></font></div>=
<div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"li=
ne-height:24px;font-size:14px">&quot;</span></font><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">H=
owever, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on d=
ata models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer poli=
cies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.=C2=A0 Suc=
h documents would be pursued outside the WG.&quot;<br></span></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f;font-size:10.5pt"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);l=
ine-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Otherwise,=
 it looks reasonable.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line=
-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt"><br></span></=
div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Thanks,</span></div><div><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.=
5pt">Alia</span></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" target=3D"_blank" r=
el=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e0115ece2c57078051e161648--


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From: "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
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From: "Dacheng Zhang" <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
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=A3=AB1. Addressing problems step by step is a good strategy.

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  I2nsf <i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Xialiang (Frank)"
<frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
=C8=D5=C6=DA:  2015=C4=EA8=D4=C225=C8=D5 =D0=C7=C6=DA=B6=FE =C9=CF=CE=E711:44
=D6=C1:  Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD:  "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty
<kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
=D6=F7=CC=E2:  [I2nsf] =B4=F0=B8=B4:  comments on I2NSF charter

I agree with Linda, single-headed control should be our reasonable
assumption currently. In the future, following the specification already in
I2RS should also be feasible.
=20
Another point I want to mention is about the NSF=A1=AFs reporting interface. Th=
is
interface may be a little bit complex since it needs to report different
kinds of information, such as: action results of security functions,
statistics information of the flows or network, the sharing security
intelligences, etc.
=20
B.R.
Frank
=20

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Linda Dunbar
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA8=D4=C225=C8=D5 6:25
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Alia Atlas
=B3=AD=CB=CD: i2nsf@ietf.org; Kathleen Moriarty
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
=20

Thank Alia for the useful comment.

=20

IMHO, I2NSF should focus on Single-headed control first.

=20

With I2RS one step ahead  in debating/specifying the proper mechanism to
ensure the network integrity with multi-headed control, I2NSF can breathe a
bit. I hope that I2NSF can borrow or simply refer to the multi-headed
control mechanism defined by I2RS when it is finalized.

=20

Thank you for the suggested wording change. I like it. If I don=A1=AFt hear any
objection, I will change the wiki by tomorrow.

=20

Linda

=20

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

I took a look at the charter at
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
<https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home>  .

In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.

=20

First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming
single-headed control (as is common in network management systems or
controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?

=20

Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:

=20

Replace:

"However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data
models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies
and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."

With

"However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on
data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer
policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such
documents would be pursued outside the WG."

=20

Otherwise, it looks reasonable.

=20

Thanks,

Alia

_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
=20
_______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


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pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
 14px; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5, sans-serif;"><div>=A3=AB1. Addressing problems step by=
 step is a good strategy.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_S=
ECTION"><div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; co=
lor:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOT=
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id; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bo=
ld">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: </span> I2nsf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">i2nsf-=
bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of "Xialiang (Frank)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:frank.xialiang@huawei.com">frank.xialiang@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=
=3D"font-weight:bold">=C8=D5=C6=DA: </span> 2015=C4=EA8=D4=C225=C8=D5 =D0=C7=C6=DA=B6=FE =C9=CF=CE=E711:44<br><span st=
yle=3D"font-weight:bold">=D6=C1: </span> Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf.dun=
bar@gmail.com">ietf.dunbar@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bo=
ld">=B3=AD=CB=CD: </span> "<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Kathleen Moriarty &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com">kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=D6=F7=CC=E2: </span> [I2nsf] =B4=F0=B8=B4=
:  comments on I2NSF charter<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schem=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purp=
le"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125=
);">I agree with Linda, single-headed control should be our reasonable assum=
ption currently. In the future, following the specification already in
 I2RS should also be feasible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Another point I want to mention is about the NS=
F&#8217;s reporting interface. This interface may be a little bit complex si=
nce it needs to report different
 kinds of information, such as: action results of security functions, stati=
stics information of the flows or network, the sharing security intelligence=
s, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125)=
;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5);">B.R.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 12=
5);">Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #=
B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"> I2nsf [<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.or=
g">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Linda Dunbar<br></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.0pt"> 2015</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">=C4=EA<span lang=
=3D"EN-US">8</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">25</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 6:25<br=
></span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Alia Atl=
as<br></span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>; Kathleen Moriarty<br></span><=
b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Re: [I2nsf] comment=
s on I2NSF charter<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margi=
n-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thank Alia for the useful comme=
nt.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);">IMHO, I2NSF should focus on Single-headed control first.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margin=
-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125);">With I2RS one step ahead &nbsp;in debating/specifying the p=
roper mechanism to ensure the network integrity with multi-headed
 control, I2NSF can breathe a bit. I hope that I2NSF can borrow or simply r=
efer to the multi-headed control mechanism defined by I2RS when it is finali=
zed.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thank you for the suggested wording change. I like it. I=
f I don&#8217;t hear any objection, I will change the wiki by tomorrow.
 &nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm=
;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style=3D"margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; co=
lor: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Linda</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:2=
7 PM, Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akat=
las@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I took a look at the charter at&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://sit=
es.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:9.5pt">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</span></a>&nbsp;.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In general=
, this looks plausible.&nbsp; I do have a few comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">First, could you cons=
ider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming single-headed control =
(as is common in network management systems or controllers) or is assuming m=
ulti-headed control (as I2RS does)?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Second, I'd propose the following minor m=
odification:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">Replace:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US">"</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-f=
amily: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">However, I2NSF will provide a for=
um for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how =
more complex
 Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer f=
unctions."</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black;">With</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">"However, I2NSF wi=
ll provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs,=
 etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer
 policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.&nbsp=
; Such documents would be pursued outside the WG."</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">O=
therwise, it looks reasonable.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10=
.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks,</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black;">Alia</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br=
><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" target=3D"_blank">https=
://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></=
div></div>
_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a>
</span></body></html>

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Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
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Subject: [I2nsf] On multi-headed control
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Hi,

Like Linda and other people who previously expressed their opinion on this =
list, I agree that multi-headed control shouldn't be the first priority of =
i2nsf WG activities. Multi-headed control may be considered in the future, =
possibly taking the opportunity of a re-chartering discussion if the WG is =
formed (which I support).

Cheers,

Christian.

    _________________    ________  ______  ______
   /_____________   /__ /_    _ / /     / /     /   Christian Jacquenet - O=
range
      /_________/  /  /   /  /   /  /  / /  /__/    Tel: +33 2 99 12 43 82 =
Cell: +33 6 73 67 73 53
               /  /  /___/__/___/_____/_/__/____   "Soundin' a lot like a H=
ouse Congressional,
              /__/  /__________________________/_ 'cause we're experimental=
 and professional."
                /_______________________________/ - Beer Drinkers and Hell =
Raisers.


___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Like Linda and other people who previously expressed their=
 opinion on this list, I agree that multi-headed control shouldn&#8217;t be=
 the first priority of i2nsf WG activities. Multi-headed
 control may be considered in the future, possibly taking the opportunity o=
f a re-chartering discussion if the WG is formed (which I support).<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">Christian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _________________&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ___=
_____&nbsp; ______&nbsp; ______<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; /_____________&nbsp;&nbsp; /__ /_&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _ / /&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; / /&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; Christian Jac=
quenet - Orange<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /_________/&nbsp; /&nbsp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nb=
sp; /&nbsp;&nbsp; /&nbsp; /&nbsp; / /&nbsp; /__/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel: &#4=
3;33 2 99 12 43 82 Cell: &#43;33 6 73 67 73 53<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; /&nbsp; /&nbsp; /___/__/___/_____/_/__/____&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Sou=
ndin' a lot like a House Congressional,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; /__/&nbsp; /__________________________/_ 'cause we're experimental and =
professional.&quot;&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">/_______________________________/ - Beer Drink=
ers and Hell Raisers.</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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From nobody Tue Aug 25 09:04:48 2015
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Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:04:45 -0500
Message-ID: <CAHoMLN3tc9XfCb3Hyu9rQuxLUxBH5HRH+4pKedJC2E0mRGZq6A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
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Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
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Alia,

All the comments/replies (including operators) from the I2NSF mailing list
support I2NSF focusing on the single headed control first and support your
suggested changes.

So I updated the I2NSF charter on the I2NSF wiki :
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home

To make it easier for your review, here is the wording I changed for
"single headed control":

*"Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to specify
rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and monitor NSFs
by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will only
consider one single controller that can specify or change rules to NSFs
because multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid potential
conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the
Database update and synchronization among multiple management entities are
out of the I2NSF scope."*



Thank you very much.

Linda

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

> I took a look at the charter at
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home .
> In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.
>
> First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming
> single-headed control (as is common in network management systems or
> controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?
>
> Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:
>
> Replace:
> "However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data
> models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies
> and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."
> With
> "However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts
> on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer
> policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such
> documents would be pursued outside the WG."
>
> Otherwise, it looks reasonable.
>
> Thanks,
> Alia
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Alia, </div><div><br></div><div>All=C2=A0the comments=
/replies=C2=A0(including operators) from the I2NSF mailing list support I2N=
SF focusing on the single headed control first and support your suggested c=
hanges. </div><div><br></div><div>So I updated the I2NSF charter on the I2N=
SF wiki : </div><div><a href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf=
/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></div><div><br><=
/div><div>To make it easier for your review, here is the wording I changed =
for &quot;single headed control&quot;:</div><div><br></div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"margin-right:0px" dir=3D"ltr"><div><span style=3D"line-height:115%;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><em><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000">&quot;Controlling
and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to specify rules (by a s=
ingle
controller at the first phase), query, and monitor NSFs by one or more
management entities. </font><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0</font><font colo=
r=3D"#000000">The initial phase
of I2NSF will only consider one single controller that can specify or chang=
e rules
to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the coordination=C2=A0to avoi=
d=C2=A0potential
conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the
Database update and synchronization among multiple management entities are =
out
of the I2NSF scope.&quot;</font></em></span></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Thank you very much. </div><div><br></div><div>Lin=
da</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I took a look at=
 the charter at=C2=A0<a style=3D"font-size:12.8px" href=3D"https://sites.go=
ogle.com/site/interface2nsf/home" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http=
s://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a>=C2=A0.<br style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.8px"><div>In general, this looks plausible.=C2=A0 I do have a few com=
ments.</div><div><br></div><div>First, could you consider and add clarity a=
round whether I2NSF is assuming single-headed control (as is common in netw=
ork management systems or controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control =
(as I2RS does)?</div><div><br></div><div>Second, I&#39;d propose the follow=
ing minor modification:</div><div><br></div><div>Replace:</div><div>&quot;<=
span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif;font-size:10.5pt">However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational=
 drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Servic=
e Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer function=
s.&quot;</span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-ser=
if"><span style=3D"line-height:24px;font-size:14px">With</span></font></div=
><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"l=
ine-height:24px;font-size:14px">&quot;</span></font><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">=
However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on =
data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer pol=
icies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.=C2=A0 Su=
ch documents would be pursued outside the WG.&quot;<br></span></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;font-size:10.5pt"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);=
line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Otherwise=
, it looks reasonable.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);lin=
e-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt"><br></span><=
/div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Thanks,</span></div><div><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10=
.5pt">Alia</span></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" target=3D"_blank" r=
el=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113de4a88cd82f051e24e4c9--


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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>
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Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
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Looks good - thank you!

Alia

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Linda Dunbar <ietf.dunbar@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Alia,
>
> All the comments/replies (including operators) from the I2NSF mailing list
> support I2NSF focusing on the single headed control first and support your
> suggested changes.
>
> So I updated the I2NSF charter on the I2NSF wiki :
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>
> To make it easier for your review, here is the wording I changed for
> "single headed control":
>
> *"Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to
> specify rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and
> monitor NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of
> I2NSF will only consider one single controller that can specify or change
> rules to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the coordination to
> avoid potential conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple
> entities, but the Database update and synchronization among multiple
> management entities are out of the I2NSF scope."*
>
>
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Linda
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I took a look at the charter at
>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home .
>> In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.
>>
>> First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is
>> assuming single-headed control (as is common in network management systems
>> or controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?
>>
>> Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:
>>
>> Replace:
>> "However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data
>> models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies
>> and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."
>> With
>> "However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts
>> on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer
>> policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such
>> documents would be pursued outside the WG."
>>
>> Otherwise, it looks reasonable.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Looks good - thank you!<div><br></div><div>Alia</div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 25, =
2015 at 12:04 PM, Linda Dunbar <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf=
.dunbar@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ietf.dunbar@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Alia, </div><=
div><br></div><div>All=C2=A0the comments/replies=C2=A0(including operators)=
 from the I2NSF mailing list support I2NSF focusing on the single headed co=
ntrol first and support your suggested changes. </div><div><br></div><div>S=
o I updated the I2NSF charter on the I2NSF wiki : </div><div><a href=3D"htt=
ps://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home" target=3D"_blank">https://si=
tes.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></div><div><br></div><div>To make=
 it easier for your review, here is the wording I changed for &quot;single =
headed control&quot;:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-right=
:0px" dir=3D"ltr"><div><span style=3D"line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><em><font color=3D"#0000=
00">&quot;Controlling
and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to specify rules (by a s=
ingle
controller at the first phase), query, and monitor NSFs by one or more
management entities. </font><font color=3D"#000000">=C2=A0</font><font colo=
r=3D"#000000">The initial phase
of I2NSF will only consider one single controller that can specify or chang=
e rules
to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the coordination=C2=A0to avoi=
d=C2=A0potential
conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the
Database update and synchronization among multiple management entities are =
out
of the I2NSF scope.&quot;</font></em></span></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Thank you very much. </div><span class=3D"HOEnZb">=
<font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Linda</div></font></span></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">=
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5=
"><div dir=3D"ltr">I took a look at the charter at=C2=A0<a style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.8px" href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/=
home</a>=C2=A0.<br style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div>In general, this looks p=
lausible.=C2=A0 I do have a few comments.</div><div><br></div><div>First, c=
ould you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming single-h=
eaded control (as is common in network management systems or controllers) o=
r is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?</div><div><br></div><div=
>Second, I&#39;d propose the following minor modification:</div><div><br></=
div><div>Replace:</div><div>&quot;<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-heig=
ht:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">However, I2NSF wil=
l provide a forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that =
demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies and formats may be tran=
slated to Capability Layer functions.&quot;</span></div><div><font color=3D=
"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:24px;font=
-size:14px">With</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Ca=
libri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"line-height:24px;font-size:14px">&quot;</=
span></font><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">However, I2NSF will provide a discussion=
 forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate=
 how more complex Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to C=
apability Layer functions.=C2=A0 Such documents would be pursued outside th=
e WG.&quot;<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-heigh=
t:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt"><br></span></div><d=
iv><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Otherwise, it looks reasonable.</span></div><div>=
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-s=
erif;font-size:10.5pt"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0=
);line-height:24px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Thanks,=
</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Alia</span></div></div>
<br></div></div><span class=3D"">__________________________________________=
_____<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
<br></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Joe, Linda and all:=20

=20

I2RS considered multi-headed control in order to deal with the error =
case of two I2RS clients trying to write to the same node in a data =
model. =20

=20

We are in the midst of discussing in the I2RS finalizing of requirements =
for I2RS revision to NETCONF can handle this error case. As long as you =
realize where the problem is, you can make a lot of progress by focusing =
on other issues before you come back to this point.=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

I2RS co-chair

=20

From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
joe.parrott@bt.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:39 AM
To: ietf.dunbar@gmail.com; akatlas@gmail.com
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter

=20

I agree, I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s necessary to consider =
multi-headed control at this point and would support re-using the good =
work i2rs is doing if/when we do require it.

=20

I also agree with Alia=E2=80=99s suggested wording change to focus the =
scope.

=20

Thanks,

Joe

=20

From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: 24 August 2015 23:25
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter

=20

Thank Alia for the useful comment.=20

=20

IMHO, I2NSF should focus on Single-headed control first.=20

=20

With I2RS one step ahead  in debating/specifying the proper mechanism to =
ensure the network integrity with multi-headed control, I2NSF can =
breathe a bit. I hope that I2NSF can borrow or simply refer to the =
multi-headed control mechanism defined by I2RS when it is finalized.

=20

Thank you for the suggested wording change. I like it. If I =
don=E2=80=99t hear any objection, I will change the wiki by tomorrow. =20

=20

Linda

=20

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

I took a look at the charter at  =
<https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home> =
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home .

In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.

=20

First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is =
assuming single-headed control (as is common in network management =
systems or controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS =
does)?

=20

Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:

=20

Replace:

"However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data =
models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer =
policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."

With

"However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts =
on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service =
Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer =
functions.  Such documents would be pursued outside the WG."

=20

Otherwise, it looks reasonable.

=20

Thanks,

Alia


_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Joe, Linda and all: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I2RS considered multi-headed control in order to deal with the error =
case of two I2RS clients trying to write to the same node in a data =
model.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>We are in the midst of discussing in the I2RS finalizing of =
requirements for I2RS revision to NETCONF can handle this error case. As =
long as you realize where the problem is, you can make a lot of progress =
by focusing on other issues before you come back to this point. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I2RS co-chair<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
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0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>joe.parrott@bt.com<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 25, 2015 5:39 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> ietf.dunbar@gmail.com; akatlas@gmail.com<br><b>Cc:</b> =
i2nsf@ietf.org; kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree, I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s necessary to consider =
multi-headed control at this point and would support re-using the good =
work i2rs is doing if/when we do require it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also agree with Alia=E2=80=99s suggested wording change to focus =
the scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Joe<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> I2nsf [<a =
href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]=
 <b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 August 2015 =
23:25<br><b>To:</b> Alia Atlas &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>; Kathleen Moriarty =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com">kathleen.moriarty.ietf@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF =
charter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank Alia for the useful comment. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>IMHO, I2NSF should focus on Single-headed control first. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>With I2RS one step ahead &nbsp;in debating/specifying the proper =
mechanism to ensure the network integrity with multi-headed control, =
I2NSF can breathe a bit. I hope that I2NSF can borrow or simply refer to =
the multi-headed control mechanism defined by I2RS when it is =
finalized.</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thank you for the suggested wording change. I like it. If I =
don=E2=80=99t hear any objection, I will change the wiki by tomorrow. =
&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Linda</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB>On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, =
Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB>I took a look at the =
charter at&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/hom=
e</span></a>&nbsp;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>In general, this looks plausible.&nbsp; I do have a few =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB>First, could you consider and add =
clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming single-headed control (as is =
common in network management systems or controllers) or is assuming =
multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB>Second, I'd propose the following =
minor modification:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>Replace:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB>&quot;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data =
models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer =
policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer =
functions.&quot;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>With</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>&quot;However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational =
drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex =
Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer =
functions.&nbsp; Such documents would be pursued outside the =
WG.&quot;</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Otherwise, it looks reasonable.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Thanks,</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'=
>Alia</span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><br>_______________________________________________<br>I2nsf=
 mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01D0DF59.A3302830--


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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
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Subject: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.  I
believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for the I2NSF
charter.   The charter text is located at
https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send comments on
this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.

Thank you,

Joe

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing =
the charter.=C2=A0 I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consens=
us call for the I2NSF charter. =C2=A0 The charter text is located at=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.g=
oogle.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a>.=C2=A0 Please send comments on this c=
harter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.<div><br></div><div>Thank you=
,</div><div><br></div><div>Joe</div></div>

--089e0122832097514c051e305613--


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To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
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Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] comments on I2NSF charter
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Folks:

Would highly recommend the consensus opinion of starting with single-headed
control initially.
regards, shaibal

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:

> I took a look at the charter at
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home .
> In general, this looks plausible.  I do have a few comments.
>
> First, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming
> single-headed control (as is common in network management systems or
> controllers) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?
>
> Second, I'd propose the following minor modification:
>
> Replace:
> "However, I2NSF will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data
> models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies
> and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions."
> With
> "However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts
> on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer
> policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such
> documents would be pursued outside the WG."
>
> Otherwise, it looks reasonable.
>
> Thanks,
> Alia
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Folks: <br><br></div>Would highly recommend the =
consensus opinion of starting with single-headed control initially. <br></d=
iv>regards, shaibal <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Alia Atlas <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
I took a look at the charter at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://sites.google.com/si=
te/interface2nsf/home" rel=3D"noreferrer" style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073=
49px" target=3D"_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a=
>=C2=A0.<br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><div>In general, this lo=
oks plausible.=C2=A0 I do have a few comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Fir=
st, could you consider and add clarity around whether I2NSF is assuming sin=
gle-headed control (as is common in network management systems or controlle=
rs) or is assuming multi-headed control (as I2RS does)?</div><div><br></div=
><div>Second, I&#39;d propose the following minor modification:</div><div><=
br></div><div>Replace:</div><div>&quot;<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">However, I2NS=
F will provide a forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. =
that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies and formats may be=
 translated to Capability Layer functions.&quot;</span></div><div><font fac=
e=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;l=
ine-height:24px">With</span></font></div><div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-s=
erif" color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:24px">&qu=
ot;</span></font><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10=
.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">However, I2NSF will provide a discu=
ssion forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demons=
trate how more complex Service Layer policies and formats may be translated=
 to Capability Layer functions.=C2=A0 Such documents would be pursued outsi=
de the WG.&quot;<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px"><br></span></d=
iv><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">Otherwise, it looks reasonable.</span></div>=
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);line-height:24px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">Th=
anks,</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:10.5pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:24px">Alia</span></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:28:45 -0400
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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not
change the meaning of the charter text:

A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure
integrity, confidentiality, and availability of network
communications, to detect unwanted network activity, and to block or
at least the mitigate effects of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided
and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. Users of NSFs could
consume network security services hosted by one or more providers,
which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a combination
of both.  Similarly, service providers may offer their customers
network security services that are enforced by multiple security
products and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be provided
by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without standard
interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become
virtually impossible for providers of security services to automate
service offerings that utilize different security functions from
multiple vendors.

The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data
models for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual
NSFs. If the working group finds it necessary to work on an
information model before the data models, to help provide guidance and
derive the data models, it may do so. The working group will decide
later whether the information model needs to be published as an RFC.
Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and
configuration, are out of scope.

Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to
specify rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and
monitor NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of
I2NSF will only consider one single controller that can specify or
change rules to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the
coordination to avoid potential conflict of rules. The NSFs can be
monitored by multiple entities, but the database update and
synchronization among multiple management entities are out of scope
for I2NSF. As there are many different security vendors supporting
different features and functions on their devices, I2NSF will focus on
flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flows, such as
Intrusion Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow
filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matching and
remediation.

I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control
and monitoring of network security functions:

The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs
at a functional implementation level.  The term =E2=80=9CFunctional
Implementation=E2=80=9D is used to emphasize that the rules (for control an=
d
monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will
standardize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can
invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.

The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=E2=80=99 security policies may =
be
expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its
policies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF
capability Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to
monitor the client specific policies.

Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies,
the following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
    o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as
closely as possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to
handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs
for a given policy.
    o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from
clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the
Capability Layer is out of scope.
    o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to
Capability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational
drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex
Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability
Layer functions.  Such documents would be pursued outside the WG.

Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of
NSFs are essential building blocks for providers of security service
to automate the use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work
will leverage the existing protocols and data models defined by the
I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working groups. If extensions to these
protocols or data models are needed, requirements will be developed by
this WG, and the extensions will be developed in cooperation with the
WGs responsible for the protocols.

The I2NSF WG=E2=80=99s deliverables include:

    o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap
analysis document. This document will initially be produced for
reference as a living list to track and record discussions: the WG may
decide to not publish this document as an RFC.
    o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs
and the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will
also be a reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide
to not publish this document as an RFC.
    o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified,
Information Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based
NSFs.
    o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
    o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables
the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a
vendor-neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be
standardized. The registry enables various mechanisms, including
policy rules, to be used to match monitor and control functions to the
needs of an application and/or environment.
An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify
the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring
information between the NSFs and their management entities. This
document may also be produced as a working document that is not
published as an RFC.

The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe
requirements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the
WG, to explain how the data models are used to monitor and control
flow-based NSFs, and to describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry
the content of the data models. These documents may be published as
Informational RFCs of may be working documents that are discarded once
they have triggered the necessary work.

The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The
WG will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will
encourage open source code development related to the WG scope in
organizations like ONF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.


On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.  I
> believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for the I2N=
SF
> charter.   The charter text is located at
> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send comments o=
n
> this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>



--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen


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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. In=20
any case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter=20
below (some more substantial than others):

- The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we can=20
argue about some of the points in there for various security functions=20
(e.g. I may want to detect normal network behavior to establish a=20
baseline, which does not seem to be covered by the current definition).=20
I don't think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is it=20
necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly prescriptive, but=20
rather view these as possible NSF features, and supplement them with=20
some actual product examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly,=20
since we limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we may want to make that=20
clear here. An example of a security function that would *not* be in=20
scope may be helpful too.

- The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multiple=20
entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ?=20
If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.

- The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security=20
controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly,=20
the security controller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF=20
implements the "Capability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that=20
interact with the security controller to implement policies (by=20
leveraging the service layer). If so, it would be good to clarify this=20
taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I probably need some=20
clarifications in the text.

- In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement=20
about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you=20
mean all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different types=20
of NSFs) ?

- Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated"=20
without further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or how=20
to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be a=20
deliverable ?

- A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not (they =

seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence are=20
relevant for consumers of the information and data models later on) ?

- The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Informational=20
drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing to=20
me. The work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no=20
deliverables and presumably no agenda time will be allocated either.=20
It's also not clear to me that we can/should state that such documents=20
would be Informational. We may decide that we need some procedures for=20
how to define such documents, have designated experts, a directorate,=20
etc. to review them etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature=20
though, but again, we may want to note that as an issue in the charter=20
that the WG needs to resolve at some point.


Nits:
- first paragraph:
s/the mitigate/mitigate the/

- second last paragraph:
s/RFCs of/RFCs or


Thanks

-- Flemming


On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Kathleen,
>
> Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter description =
on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes: htt=
ps://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>
>
> Linda
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Moria=
rty
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
> To: Joseph Salowey
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
> I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not chan=
ge the meaning of the charter text:
>
> A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure integrit=
y, confidentiality, and availability of network communications, to detect=
 unwanted network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects=
 of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly div=
erse environments. Users of NSFs could consume network security services =
hosted by one or more providers, which may be their own enterprise, servi=
ce providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly, service providers may=
 offer their customers network security services that are enforced by mul=
tiple security products and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may=
 be provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without stand=
ard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become=
 virtually impossible for providers of security services to automate serv=
ice offerings that utilize different security functions from multiple ven=
dors.
>
> The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data mo=
dels for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs.=
 If the working group finds it necessary to work on an information model =
before the data models, to help provide guidance and derive the data mode=
ls, it may do so. The working group will decide later whether the informa=
tion model needs to be published as an RFC.
> Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and confi=
guration, are out of scope.
>
> Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to speci=
fy rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and monitor =
NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will=
 only consider one single controller that can specify or change rules to =
NSFs because multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid pote=
ntial conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, =
but the database update and synchronization among multiple management ent=
ities are out of scope for I2NSF. As there are many different security ve=
ndors supporting different features and functions on their devices, I2NSF=
 will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flows, s=
uch as Intrusion Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, fl=
ow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matching and remediation=
=2E
>
> I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control =
and monitoring of network security functions:
>
> The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at=
 a functional implementation level.  The term =E2=80=9CFunctional Impleme=
ntation=E2=80=9D is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
> monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will stan=
dardize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can invoke, op=
erate, and monitor NSFs.
>
> The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=E2=80=99 security policies =
may be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its =
policies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF capa=
bility Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to monitor =
the client specific policies.
>
> Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies, th=
e following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>      o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as close=
ly as possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
> Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle=
 issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a gi=
ven policy.
>      o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from c=
lients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Capa=
bility Layer is out of scope.
>      o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to=
 Capability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
> However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts=
 on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Lay=
er policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions. =
 Such documents would be pursued outside the WG.
>
> Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs=
 are essential building blocks for providers of security service to autom=
ate the use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will lever=
age the existing protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, =
and NETMOD working groups. If extensions to these protocols or data model=
s are needed, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the extensio=
ns will be developed in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the prot=
ocols.
>
> The I2NSF WG=E2=80=99s deliverables include:
>
>      o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap=
 analysis document. This document will initially be produced for referenc=
e as a living list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide to =
not publish this document as an RFC.
>      o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs =
and the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will als=
o be a reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to not=
 publish this document as an RFC.
>      o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, =
Information Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based NS=
Fs.
>      o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>      o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables=
 the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a vendor-=
neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardiz=
ed. The registry enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, to b=
e used to match monitor and control functions to the needs of an applicat=
ion and/or environment.
> An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify =
the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring informat=
ion between the NSFs and their management entities. This document may als=
o be produced as a working document that is not published as an RFC.
>
> The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe require=
ments for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to ex=
plain how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs=
, and to describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of the=
 data models. These documents may be published as Informational RFCs of m=
ay be working documents that are discarded once they have triggered the n=
ecessary work.
>
> The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG=
 will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage ope=
n source code development related to the WG scope in organizations like O=
NF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net> wrote=
:
>> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.=

>> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for th=
e I2NSF
>> charter.   The charter text is located at
>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send
>> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>
>



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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03dfweml701chm_--


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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Thanks for the additional comments.  I have some comments inline.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>=20
> Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. In any=
 case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter below (s=
ome more substantial than others):
>=20
> - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we can ar=
gue about some of the points in there for various security functions (e.g. I=
 may want to detect normal network behavior to establish a baseline, which d=
oes not seem to be covered by the current definition). I don't think that wi=
ll be a productive discussion though, nor is it necessary. Instead, I'd sugg=
est we are not overly prescriptive, but rather view these as possible NSF fe=
atures, and supplement them with some actual product examples (e.g. FW, NGFW=
, IPS, etc.). Similarly, since we limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we m=
ay want to make that clear here. An example of a security function that woul=
d *not* be in scope may be helpful too.

I believe these points are well covered in the full charter already.  If you=
 have text that you think clarifies these points without restating them, tha=
t would be helpful.

>=20
> - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multiple ent=
ities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ? If so, t=
hat seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.

I think we should leave that alone and don't think it necessarily implies a 1=
:N relationship.
>=20
> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security controller" t=
hat interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, the security contro=
ller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the "Capability L=
ayer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that interact with the security contro=
ller to implement policies (by leveraging the service layer). If so, it woul=
d be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I pr=
obably need some clarifications in the text.

What specific text would you propose?  I think the point is already clear, b=
ut if you have proposed text, that may be more helpful to see your point cle=
arly.
>=20
> - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement about "=
rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you mean all NSFs=
 or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different types of NSFs) ?

There is already a list of possible NSF device types in the charter.  Is add=
itional text needed to make this point more clear?  I read it as pretty clea=
r already, but seeing a proposal might help.
>=20
> - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated" without f=
urther definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or how to do that in=
 the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be a deliverable ?

I think that's too much detail for an already very detailed charter.
>=20
> - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not (they s=
eem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence are relevant f=
or consumers of the information and data models later on) ?
>=20

This is a decision the WG can make and is typical for IETF WGs to revisit th=
ese decisions.  If you'd like them published, please make that known when th=
is assessment is made.

> - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Informational dra=
fts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing to me. The=
 work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no deliverables and p=
resumably no agenda time will be allocated either. It's also not clear to me=
 that we can/should state that such documents would be Informational. We may=
 decide that we need some procedures for how to define such documents, have d=
esignated experts, a directorate, etc. to review them etc. I'm guessing this=
 is all a bit premature though, but again, we may want to note that as an is=
sue in the charter that the WG needs to resolve at some point.

This leaves open some leeway to avoid the need to re charter if work fits in=
to the existing charter, but is not an existing milestone.  This can be deci=
ded with the area director without lots of extra process.
>=20
>=20
> Nits:
> - first paragraph:
> s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
>=20
> - second last paragraph:
> s/RFCs of/RFCs or
>=20
>=20
> Thanks

Thank you for the detailed review.
Kathleen=20

>=20
> -- Flemming
>=20
>=20
>> On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>> Kathleen,
>>=20
>> Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter description on=
 the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes: https://=
sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>>=20
>>=20
>> Linda
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Moriart=
y
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
>> To: Joseph Salowey
>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>>=20
>> I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not change=
 the meaning of the charter text:
>>=20
>> A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure integrity,=
 confidentiality, and availability of network communications, to detect unwa=
nted network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects of unwa=
nted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly diverse enviro=
nments. Users of NSFs could consume network security services hosted by one o=
r more providers, which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a=
 combination of both.  Similarly, service providers may offer their customer=
s network security services that are enforced by multiple security products a=
nd/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be provided by physical and=
/or virtualized infrastructure. Without standard interfaces to control and m=
onitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become virtually impossible for provider=
s of security services to automate service offerings that utilize different s=
ecurity functions from multiple vendors.
>>=20
>> The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data mode=
ls for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs. If t=
he working group finds it necessary to work on an information model before t=
he data models, to help provide guidance and derive the data models, it may d=
o so. The working group will decide later whether the information model need=
s to be published as an RFC.
>> Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and configu=
ration, are out of scope.
>>=20
>> Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to specify=
 rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and monitor NSFs b=
y one or more management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will only con=
sider one single controller that can specify or change rules to NSFs because=
 multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid potential conflict o=
f rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the database up=
date and synchronization among multiple management entities are out of scope=
 for I2NSF. As there are many different security vendors supporting differen=
t features and functions on their devices, I2NSF will focus on flow-based NS=
Fs that provide treatment to packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Det=
ection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspecti=
on, or pattern matching and remediation.
>>=20
>> I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control an=
d monitoring of network security functions:
>>=20
>> The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at a=
 functional implementation level.  The term =E2=80=9CFunctional Implementati=
on=E2=80=9D is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
>> monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will standa=
rdize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can invoke, operate=
, and monitor NSFs.
>>=20
>> The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=E2=80=99 security policies ma=
y be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its polic=
ies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF capability L=
ayer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to monitor the client s=
pecific policies.
>>=20
>> Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies, the f=
ollowing bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>>     o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as closely a=
s possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
>> Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle i=
ssues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a given p=
olicy.
>>     o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from clie=
nts. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Capability=
 Layer is out of scope.
>>     o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to Ca=
pability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
>> However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts o=
n data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer po=
licies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such do=
cuments would be pursued outside the WG.
>>=20
>> Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs a=
re essential building blocks for providers of security service to automate t=
he use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will leverage the e=
xisting protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD w=
orking groups. If extensions to these protocols or data models are needed, r=
equirements will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be develop=
ed in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
>>=20
>> The I2NSF WG=E2=80=99s deliverables include:
>>=20
>>     o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap an=
alysis document. This document will initially be produced for reference as a=
 living list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide to not publi=
sh this document as an RFC.
>>     o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and=
 the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will also be a=
 reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to not publish t=
his document as an RFC.
>>     o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, Inf=
ormation Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based NSFs.
>>     o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>>     o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables th=
e characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a vendor-neutra=
l vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The r=
egistry enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, to be used to ma=
tch monitor and control functions to the needs of an application and/or envi=
ronment.
>> An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify th=
e appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring information b=
etween the NSFs and their management entities. This document may also be pro=
duced as a working document that is not published as an RFC.
>>=20
>> The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe requireme=
nts for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to explain=
 how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and to=
 describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of the data model=
s. These documents may be published as Informational RFCs of may be working d=
ocuments that are discarded once they have triggered the necessary work.
>>=20
>> The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG w=
ill communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open sou=
rce code development related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF, Open=
Stack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net> wrote:=

>>> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.
>>> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for the I=
2NSF
>>> charter.   The charter text is located at
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send
>>> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>>>=20
>>> Thank you,
>>>=20
>>> Joe
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>=20
>=20


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On 8/26/15 7:31 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Flemming,
> Thank you very much for the detailed comments. Thank you for catching 
> those typos (corrected on the I2NSF wiki now). We really need the 
> fresh set of eyes to look at it.
> You stated:
> - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multiple 
> entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ?
> If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.
> [Linda] The intent is to describe a scenario that a NSF may send 
> different outputs to different entities. For example, some statistics 
> report to “Analytics system”, “rule query” to management entity. Can 
> you suggest a better wording for this?
I see. I'm not sure I would get into that level of detail in the 
charter, but since you introduce the notion of "features and functions", 
you could for example say

"The NSFs may contain a multitude of features and functions, each of 
which can be monitored by a different entity"

or something like that.


> Other Replies are inserted below:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flemming Andreasen [mailto:fandreas@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:46 PM
> To: Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
> Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. In 
> any case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter 
> below (some more substantial than others):
> - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we 
> can argue about some of the points in there for various security 
> functions (e.g. I may want to detect normal network behavior to 
> establish a baseline, which does not seem to be covered by the current 
> definition).
> [Linda] Over the course of I2NSF (about a year), we have gone through 
> a long debate on what NSFs should be considered by IETF I2NSF. As the 
> result of the long debate, we use the definition to classify a set of 
> functions to be considered for IETF I2NSF (then further narrowing down 
> to Flow-based NSFs).
> The function you described, i.e. detecting normal network behavior to 
> establish a baseline is not in the scope of I2NSF, even though this 
> function can also be "provided and consumed in increasingly diverse 
> environments".
Ok - the part about "detect unwanted network activity" is fairly broad 
though, and I'm not sure how you detect unwanted activity without 
looking at all activity (which is what triggered my original question).

> I don't think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is it 
> necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly prescriptive, but 
> rather view these as possible NSF features, and supplement them with 
> some actual product examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly, 
> since we limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we may want to make 
> that clear here. An example of a security function that would *not* be 
> in scope may be helpful too.
> [Linda] All the NSFs in I2NSF context are “features”, whose form 
> factor can be provided physical box or virtualized format. Some form 
> factors, i.e. devices or VM, can provide multiple “functions”. Do you 
> think the sentences in the third paragraph is good enough to describe 
> what you want?
> /“//I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to 
> packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection System 
> (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or 
> pattern matching and remediation.//”///
The examples here are clear; I'm less clear on what else might be in 
scope. For example, would a DDoS detection and mitigation system be in 
scope (keeping in mind it may use a combination of packet inspection and 
telemetry-based detection and mitigation and that establishing a 
"normal" baseline is often part of the operation) ?

> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security 
> controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, 
> the security controller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF 
> implements the "Capability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that 
> interact with the security controller to implement policies (by 
> leveraging the service layer). If so, it would be good to clarify this 
> taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I probably need some 
> clarifications in the text.
> [Linda] “Security controller” is a conceptual entity, meaning an 
> entity to send implementable rules (capability layer) to the NSFs. 
> There could be multiple of them, each responsible for one type of NSF 
> (i.e. managing the instances of the NSFs).
> I2NSF includes “Simple Service Layer” that models closely to the 
> “Capability Layer”. For example: client can specify the rules without 
> specify which instances of the NSF. The “Controller” manage the 
> instances, as described by The figure in I2NSF Framework document:
> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
> |  NSF-A  +--------------+ |  |  NSF-B  +--------------+      |
> |         |   Controller| |  |         |   Controller|      |
> |         +--------------+ |  |         +--------------+      |
> | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |
> | |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |
> | || NSF-A#1 | ... |  NSF-A#n|| |  | ||  NSF-B#1| ... |  NSF-B#m|| |
> | |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |
> | |         NSF-A cluster     | |  | |          NSF-B cluster    | |
> | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |
> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
Ok - this basic framework seems to be foundational to the structure of 
the work the group is doing. If so, I think it would be helpful to 
outline it (verbally) in the charter.

> - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement 
> about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you 
> mean all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different 
> types of NSFs) ?
> [Linda] yes.
> - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated"
> without further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or 
> how to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be 
> a deliverable ?
> [Linda] “simple” means that they can be directly translated to 
> capability layer rules with simple mapping, e.g. without explicit 
> stating which instantiation, may have customer ID that can be 
> translated to some tags carried by packets
Ok - if that's the definition we want to use, can we clarify it in the 
charter ?

> - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not 
> (they seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence 
> are relevant for consumers of the information and data models later on) ?
> [Linda] The WG group may decide to publish them as RFC or not later. 
> But the charter doesn’t specify which way. That is how IESG wanted.
Ok.
> - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Informational 
> drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing 
> to me. The work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no 
> deliverables and presumably no agenda time will be allocated either.
> [Linda] this is to address the information documents that describe the 
> I2NSF demo, open source or interoperability initiatives that are 
> conducted outside the WG. E.g 
> _https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/_
Ok - thanks for the pointer, however from a WG point of view, I'm not 
clear on what it means to have a discussion forum and what, if anything, 
the WG will do with it (e.g. discuss such drafts as part of meetings, 
etc) ?

> It's also not clear to me that we can/should state that such documents 
> would be Informational. We may decide that we need some procedures for 
> how to define such documents, have designated experts, a directorate, 
> etc. to review them etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature 
> though, but again, we may want to note that as an issue in the charter 
> that the WG needs to resolve at some point.
> [Linda] Agree with you. I will see how AD wants to address this 
> suggestion .
Ok
> Nits:
> - first paragraph:
> s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
> - second last paragraph:
> s/RFCs of/RFCs or
> [Linda] Thank you for the catch. They are corrected on the I2NSF wiki 
> now.
Thanks for the quick response and updates.

-- Flemming

> Thanks
> -- Flemming
> On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> > Kathleen,
> >
> > Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter description
> > on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes:
> >https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
> >
> >
> > Linda
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen
> > Moriarty
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
> > To: Joseph Salowey
> > Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
> >
> > I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not change the meaning of the charter text:
> >
> > A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure integrity, confidentiality, and availability of network 
> communications, to detect unwanted network activity, and to block or 
> at least the mitigate effects of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided 
> and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. Users of NSFs could 
> consume network security services hosted by one or more providers, 
> which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a combination 
> of both.  Similarly, service providers may offer their customers 
> network security services that are enforced by multiple security 
> products and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be provided 
> by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without standard 
> interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become 
> virtually impossible for providers of security services to automate 
> service offerings that utilize different security functions from 
> multiple vendors.
> >
> > The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring aspects of 
> physical and virtual NSFs. If the working group finds it necessary to 
> work on an information model before the data models, to help provide 
> guidance and derive the data models, it may do so. The working group 
> will decide later whether the information model needs to be published 
> as an RFC.
> > Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and configuration, are out of scope.
> >
> > Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to specify rules (by a single controller at the first 
> phase), query, and monitor NSFs by one or more management entities.  
> The initial phase of I2NSF will only consider one single controller 
> that can specify or change rules to NSFs because multi-headed control 
> requires the coordination to avoid potential conflict of rules. The 
> NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the database update 
> and synchronization among multiple management entities are out of 
> scope for I2NSF. As there are many different security vendors 
> supporting different features and functions on their devices, I2NSF 
> will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flows, 
> such as Intrusion Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web 
> filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matching 
> and remediation.
> >
> > I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control and monitoring of network security functions:
> >
> > The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs
> > at a functional implementation level.  The term “Functional
> > Implementation” is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
> > monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will standardize a set of interfaces by which a security 
> controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.
> >
> > The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients’ security policies may be expressed to a security controller. The 
> controller implements its policies according to the various 
> capabilities provided by the I2NSF capability Layer.  The I2NSF 
> Service Layer also allows the client to monitor the client specific 
> policies.
> >
> > Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies, the following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
> >      o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer are within 
> the scope.
> > Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between 
> available NSFs for a given policy.
> >      o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from clients. Expressing policies in ways 
> other than the model used by the Capability Layer is out of scope.
> >      o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to Capability layer comments are out of scope 
> for I2NSF.
> > However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how 
> more complex Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to 
> Capability Layer functions. Such documents would be pursued outside 
> the WG.
> >
> > Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs are essential building blocks for providers of 
> security service to automate the use of different NSFs from multiple 
> vendors. This work will leverage the existing protocols and data 
> models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working groups. If 
> extensions to these protocols or data models are needed, requirements 
> will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be developed in 
> cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
> >
> > The I2NSF WG’s deliverables include:
> >
> >      o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap analysis document. This document will initially be 
> produced for reference as a living list to track and record 
> discussions: the WG may decide to not publish this document as an RFC.
> >      o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and the purpose of the models developed by the WG. 
> This document will also be a reference text to guide the main work and 
> the WG may decide to not publish this document as an RFC.
> >      o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, Information Model to describe the control and 
> monitoring of flow-based NSFs.
> >      o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
> >      o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be 
> specified using a vendor-neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs 
> themselves to be standardized. The registry enables various 
> mechanisms, including policy rules, to be used to match monitor and 
> control functions to the needs of an application and/or environment.
> > An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify the appropriate ones for carrying the 
> controlling and monitoring information between the NSFs and their 
> management entities. This document may also be produced as a working 
> document that is not published as an RFC.
> >
> > The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe requirements for extensions (if any) to existing 
> protocols used by the WG, to explain how the data models are used to 
> monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and to describe how to use I2RS 
> and NETCONF to carry the content of the data models. These documents 
> may be published as Informational RFCs of may be working documents 
> that are discarded once they have triggered the necessary work.
> >
> > The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV 
> and will encourage open source code development related to the WG 
> scope in organizations like ONF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net <mailto:joe@salowey.net>> wrote:
> >> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.
> >> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for the I2NSF
> >> charter.   The charter text is located at
> >>https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home. Please send
> >> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> I2nsf mailing list
> >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
> >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
> >>
> >
> >


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/26/15 7:31 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite">
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          <div>Flemming, </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>Thank you very much for the detailed comments. Thank you
            for catching those typos (corrected on the I2NSF wiki now).
            We really need the fresh set of eyes to look at it. </div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>You stated: </div>
          <div>- The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be
            monitored by multiple entities..."; does this imply a 1:N
            (direct) monitoring relationship ? </div>
          <div>If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be
            premature.</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] The intent is to describe a
              scenario that a NSF may send different outputs to
              different entities. For example, some statistics report to
              “Analytics system”, “rule query” to management entity. Can
              you suggest a better wording
              for this? </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    I see. I'm not sure I would get into that level of detail in the
    charter, but since you introduce the notion of "features and
    functions", you could for example say <br>
    <br>
    "The NSFs may contain a multitude of features and functions, each of
    which can be monitored by a different entity" <br>
    <br>
    or something like that. <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>Other Replies are inserted below:</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>-----Original Message-----<br>
            From: Flemming Andreasen [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:fandreas@cisco.com">mailto:fandreas@cisco.com</a>]
            <br>
            Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:46 PM<br>
            To: Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey<br>
            Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
            Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back
            from PTO. In any case, please find some additional comments
            on the proposed charter below (some more substantial than
            others):</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>- The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF
            is, and we can argue about some of the points in there for
            various security functions (e.g. I may want to detect normal
            network behavior to establish a baseline, which does not
            seem to be covered
            by the current definition). </div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] Over the course of I2NSF
              (about a year), we have gone through a long debate on what
              NSFs should be considered by IETF I2NSF. As the result of
              the long debate, we use the definition to classify a set
              of functions to be considered
              for IETF I2NSF (then further narrowing down to Flow-based
              NSFs). </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">The function you described, i.e.
              detecting normal network behavior to establish a baseline
              is not in the scope of I2NSF, even though this function
              can also be "provided and consumed in increasingly diverse
              environments". </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Ok - the part about "detect unwanted network activity" is fairly
    broad though, and I'm not sure how you detect unwanted activity
    without looking at all activity (which is what triggered my original
    question). <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>I don't think that will be a productive discussion
            though, nor is it necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not
            overly prescriptive, but rather view these as possible NSF
            features, and supplement them with some actual product
            examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS,
            etc.). Similarly, since we limit our scope to "flow-based
            NSFs", we may want to make that clear here. An example of a
            security function that would *not* be in scope may be
            helpful too.</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] All the NSFs in I2NSF
              context are “features”, whose form factor can be provided
              physical box or virtualized format. Some form factors,
              i.e. devices or VM, can provide multiple “functions”. Do
              you think the sentences in the
              third paragraph is good enough to describe what you want?
            </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div style="padding-left:36pt;"><font face="Calibri"
              color="#0070C0" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt;"><i>“</i><i>I2NSF
                  will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment
                  to packets/flows, such as Intrusion
                  Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web
                  filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or
                  pattern matching and remediation.</i><i>”</i><i> </i></span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    The examples here are clear; I'm less clear on what else might be in
    scope. For example, would a DDoS detection and mitigation system be
    in scope (keeping in mind it may use a combination of packet
    inspection and telemetry-based detection and mitigation and that
    establishing a "normal" baseline is often part of the operation) ? <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>- The charter seems to operate with the notion of a
            "security controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I
            understand correctly, the security controller implements the
            "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the "Capability
            Layer". Furthermore, we have
            "clients" that interact with the security controller to
            implement policies (by leveraging the service layer). If so,
            it would be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the
            charter. If not, then I probably need some clarifications in
            the text.</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] “Security controller” is a
              conceptual entity, meaning an entity to send implementable
              rules (capability layer) to the NSFs. There could be
              multiple of them, each responsible for one type of NSF
              (i.e. managing the instances
              of the NSFs). </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">I2NSF includes “Simple Service
              Layer” that models closely to the “Capability Layer”. For
              example: client can specify the rules without specify
              which instances of the NSF. The “Controller” manage the
              instances, as described by The
              figure in I2NSF Framework document:</font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0"> </font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> |  NSF-A  +--------------+     
                |  |  NSF-B  +--------------+      |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> |         |   Controller|     
                |  |         |   Controller|      |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> |         +--------------+     
                |  |         +--------------+      |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
                |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> | |+---------+     +---------+|
                |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> | || NSF-A#1 | ... |  NSF-A#n||
                |  | ||  NSF-B#1| ... |  NSF-B#m|| |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> | |+---------+     +---------+|
                |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> | |         NSF-A cluster     |
                |  | |          NSF-B cluster    | |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
                |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Courier New" color="#0070C0" size="2"><span
                style="font-size:10pt;"> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +</span></font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman" color="#0070C0"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Ok - this basic framework seems to be foundational to the structure
    of the work the group is doing. If so, I think it would be helpful
    to outline it (verbally) in the charter. <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>- In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a
            statement about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by
            most NSFs". Do you mean all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I
            assume we have different types of NSFs) ?</div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] yes. </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>- Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or
            sophisticated" </div>
          <div>without further definition; I'm not sure where we draw
            that line or how to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying
            that part needs to be a deliverable ?</div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] “simple” means that they
              can be directly translated to capability layer rules with
              simple mapping, e.g. without explicit stating which
              instantiation, may have customer ID that can be translated
              to some tags carried by packets</font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Ok - if that's the definition we want to use, can we clarify it in
    the charter ?<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div>- A number of deliverables may not be published as an
            RFC; why not (they seem to set the stage for several other
            deliverables and hence are relevant for consumers of the
            information and data models later on) ?</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] The WG group may decide to
              publish them as RFC or not later. But the charter doesn’t
              specify which way. That is how IESG wanted. </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Ok. <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div>- The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for
            Informational drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer
            policies]..." is confusing to me. The work seems to be
            pursued outside the WG, so there are no deliverables and
            presumably no agenda time will
            be allocated either. </div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] this is to address the
              information documents that describe the I2NSF demo, open
              source or interoperability initiatives that are conducted
              outside the WG. E.g <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/"><font
                  color="blue"><u>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/</u></font></a></font></div>
          <div> </div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Ok - thanks for the pointer, however from a WG point of view, I'm
    not clear on what it means to have a discussion forum and what, if
    anything, the WG will do with it (e.g. discuss such drafts as part
    of meetings, etc) ? <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>It's also not clear to me that we can/should state that
            such documents would be Informational. We may decide that we
            need some procedures for how to define such documents, have
            designated experts, a directorate, etc. to review them etc.
            I'm guessing this
            is all a bit premature though, but again, we may want to
            note that as an issue in the charter that the WG needs to
            resolve at some point.</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] Agree with you. I will see
              how AD wants to address this suggestion . </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Ok<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div>Nits:</div>
          <div>- first paragraph:</div>
          <div>s/the mitigate/mitigate the/</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>- second last paragraph:</div>
          <div>s/RFCs of/RFCs or</div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
          <div><font color="#0070C0">[Linda] Thank you for the catch.
              They are corrected on the I2NSF wiki now. </font></div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font></blockquote>
    Thanks for the quick response and updates. <br>
    <br>
    -- Flemming <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D19B03@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite"><font face="Consolas" size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10.5pt;">
          <div>Thanks</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>-- Flemming</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:</div>
          <div>&gt; Kathleen,</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The
            charter description </div>
          <div>&gt; on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your
            suggested changes: </div>
          <div>&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; Linda</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; -----Original Message-----</div>
          <div>&gt; From: I2nsf [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
            On Behalf Of Kathleen </div>
          <div>&gt; Moriarty</div>
          <div>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM</div>
          <div>&gt; To: Joseph Salowey</div>
          <div>&gt; Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a></div>
          <div>&gt; Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; I have a few editorial changes in the following text
            that does not change the meaning of the charter text:</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used
            to ensure integrity, confidentiality, and availability of
            network communications, to detect unwanted network activity,
            and to block or at least the mitigate effects of unwanted
            activity. NSFs are provided
            and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. Users of
            NSFs could consume network security services hosted by one
            or more providers, which may be their own enterprise,
            service providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly,
            service providers may offer
            their customers network security services that are enforced
            by multiple security products and/or functions from
            different vendors. NSFs may be provided by physical and/or
            virtualized infrastructure. Without standard interfaces to
            control and monitor the behavior
            of NSFs, it has become virtually impossible for providers of
            security services to automate service offerings that utilize
            different security functions from multiple vendors.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software
            interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring
            aspects of physical and virtual NSFs. If the working group
            finds it necessary to work on an information model before
            the data models, to help provide
            guidance and derive the data models, it may do so. The
            working group will decide later whether the information
            model needs to be published as an RFC.</div>
          <div>&gt; Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network
            provisioning and configuration, are out of scope.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include
            the ability to specify rules (by a single controller at the
            first phase), query, and monitor NSFs by one or more
            management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will only
            consider one single controller
            that can specify or change rules to NSFs because
            multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid
            potential conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by
            multiple entities, but the database update and
            synchronization among multiple management entities
            are out of scope for I2NSF. As there are many different
            security vendors supporting different features and functions
            on their devices, I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that
            provide treatment to packets/flows, such as Intrusion
            Protection/Detection System
            (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet
            inspection, or pattern matching and remediation.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional
            levels for the control and monitoring of network security
            functions:</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control
            and monitor NSFs </div>
          <div>&gt; at a functional implementation level.  The term
            “Functional </div>
          <div>&gt; Implementation” is used to emphasize that the rules
            (for control and</div>
          <div>&gt; monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most
            NSFs. I2NSF will standardize a set of interfaces by which a
            security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients’
            security policies may be expressed to a security controller.
            The controller implements its policies according to the
            various capabilities provided by the I2NSF capability
            Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also
            allows the client to monitor the client specific policies.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; Since there could be many depths or types of Service
            Layer policies, the following bullets further clarify the
            scope of I2NSF:</div>
          <div>&gt;      o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that
            are modeled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer
            are within the scope.</div>
          <div>&gt; Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security
            controller to handle issues like multi-tenancy and the
            choice between available NSFs for a given policy.</div>
          <div>&gt;      o I2NSF will not specify abstract or
            sophisticated policies from clients. Expressing policies in
            ways other than the model used by the Capability Layer is
            out of scope.</div>
          <div>&gt;      o The translation mechanism/methods from
            Service Layer policies to Capability layer comments are out
            of scope for I2NSF.</div>
          <div>&gt; However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for
            Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that
            demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies and
            formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions. 
            Such documents would be pursued
            outside the WG.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling
            the behavior of NSFs are essential building blocks for
            providers of security service to automate the use of
            different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will
            leverage the existing protocols and data
            models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working
            groups. If extensions to these protocols or data models are
            needed, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the
            extensions will be developed in cooperation with the WGs
            responsible for the protocols.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; The I2NSF WG’s deliverables include:</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;      o A single document covering use cases, problem
            statement, and gap analysis document. This document will
            initially be produced for reference as a living list to
            track and record discussions: the WG may decide to not
            publish this document as an RFC.</div>
          <div>&gt;      o A framework document, presenting an overview
            of the use of NSFs and the purpose of the models developed
            by the WG. This document will also be a reference text to
            guide the main work and the WG may decide to not publish
            this document as an RFC.</div>
          <div>&gt;      o If the working group considers it necessary,
            a single, unified, Information Model to describe the control
            and monitoring of flow-based NSFs.</div>
          <div>&gt;      o YANG data models for the control and
            monitoring of NSFs.</div>
          <div>&gt;      o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a
            registry that enables the characteristics and behavior of
            NSFs to be specified using a vendor-neutral vocabulary
            without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized.
            The registry enables various
            mechanisms, including policy rules, to be used to match
            monitor and control functions to the needs of an application
            and/or environment.</div>
          <div>&gt; An examination of existing secure communication
            mechanisms to identify the appropriate ones for carrying the
            controlling and monitoring information between the NSFs and
            their management entities. This document may also be
            produced as a working document
            that is not published as an RFC.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; The WG may additionally choose to develop documents
            to describe requirements for extensions (if any) to existing
            protocols used by the WG, to explain how the data models are
            used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and to describe
            how to use I2RS
            and NETCONF to carry the content of the data models. These
            documents may be published as Informational RFCs of may be
            working documents that are discarded once they have
            triggered the necessary work.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and
            NETMOD WGs. The WG will communicate with external SDOs like
            ETSI NFV and will encourage open source code development
            related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF,
            OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt; On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey &lt;<a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joe@salowey.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joe@salowey.net">joe@salowey.net</a></a>&gt;
            wrote:</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards
            developing the charter.</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; I believe we are close to consensus so this is a
            consensus call for the I2NSF</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; charter.   The charter text is located at</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a>. 
            Please send </div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by
            September 2, 2015.</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; Thank you,</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; Joe</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; I2nsf mailing list</div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a></div>
          <div>&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a></div>
          <div>&gt;&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div>&gt;</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></div>
        </span></font>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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On 8/26/15 7:34 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> Thanks for the additional comments.  I have some comments inline.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> w=
rote:
>>
>> Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. In=
 any case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter b=
elow (some more substantial than others):
>>
>> - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we ca=
n argue about some of the points in there for various security functions =
(e.g. I may want to detect normal network behavior to establish a baselin=
e, which does not seem to be covered by the current definition). I don't =
think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is it necessary. I=
nstead, I'd suggest we are not overly prescriptive, but rather view these=
 as possible NSF features, and supplement them with some actual product e=
xamples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly, since we limit our scope t=
o "flow-based NSFs", we may want to make that clear here. An example of a=
 security function that would *not* be in scope may be helpful too.
> I believe these points are well covered in the full charter already.  I=
f you have text that you think clarifies these points without restating t=
hem, that would be helpful.
I don't - I have trouble determining where to draw the line between=20
security functions in scope and out of scope and was hoping for further=20
clarification to help with that.
>> - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multiple=
 entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ? I=
f so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.
> I think we should leave that alone and don't think it necessarily impli=
es a 1:N relationship.
>> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security controll=
er" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, the securit=
y controller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the "C=
apability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that interact with the s=
ecurity controller to implement policies (by leveraging the service layer=
). If so, it would be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the charte=
r. If not, then I probably need some clarifications in the text.
> What specific text would you propose?  I think the point is already cle=
ar, but if you have proposed text, that may be more helpful to see your p=
oint clearly.
Assuming the above understanding is correct, then something along the=20
lines of:

In I2NSF, a client that wants to provision security policies to NSFs=20
does so by interacting with a security controller. The client leverages=20
the I2NSF Service Layer interface to the security controller, which in=20
turn interacts with one or more NSFs through the I2NSF Capability Layer=20
interface.


>> - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement ab=
out "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you mean =
all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different types of NSF=
s) ?
> There is already a list of possible NSF device types in the charter.  I=
s additional text needed to make this point more clear?  I read it as pre=
tty clear already, but seeing a proposal might help.
Assuming it applies to given type of NSF, then I would simply qualify it =

that way, so it becomes:

"rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs of a given type"=20
- not a big deal though.


>> - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated" with=
out further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or how to do=
 that in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be a deliverabl=
e ?
> I think that's too much detail for an already very detailed charter.
Agreed, so I would suggest it becomes one of the tasks of the WGs to=20
define that.
>> - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not (th=
ey seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence are rel=
evant for consumers of the information and data models later on) ?
>>
> This is a decision the WG can make and is typical for IETF WGs to revis=
it these decisions.  If you'd like them published, please make that known=
 when this assessment is made.
Ok.
>
>> - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Informational=
 drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing to =
me. The work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no delivera=
bles and presumably no agenda time will be allocated either. It's also no=
t clear to me that we can/should state that such documents would be Infor=
mational. We may decide that we need some procedures for how to define su=
ch documents, have designated experts, a directorate, etc. to review them=
 etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature though, but again, we may =
want to note that as an issue in the charter that the WG needs to resolve=
 at some point.
> This leaves open some leeway to avoid the need to re charter if work fi=
ts into the existing charter, but is not an existing milestone.  This can=
 be decided with the area director without lots of extra process.
Ok.
>>
>> Nits:
>> - first paragraph:
>> s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
>>
>> - second last paragraph:
>> s/RFCs of/RFCs or
>>
>>
>> Thanks
> Thank you for the detailed review.

Thanks for the quick response.

-- Flemming

> Kathleen
>
>> -- Flemming
>>
>>
>>> On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>>> Kathleen,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter descriptio=
n on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes: h=
ttps://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>>>
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Mor=
iarty
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
>>> To: Joseph Salowey
>>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>>>
>>> I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not ch=
ange the meaning of the charter text:
>>>
>>> A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure integr=
ity, confidentiality, and availability of network communications, to dete=
ct unwanted network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effec=
ts of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly d=
iverse environments. Users of NSFs could consume network security service=
s hosted by one or more providers, which may be their own enterprise, ser=
vice providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly, service providers m=
ay offer their customers network security services that are enforced by m=
ultiple security products and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs m=
ay be provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without sta=
ndard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has beco=
me virtually impossible for providers of security services to automate se=
rvice offerings that utilize different security functions from multiple v=
endors.
>>>
>>> The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data =
models for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSF=
s. If the working group finds it necessary to work on an information mode=
l before the data models, to help provide guidance and derive the data mo=
dels, it may do so. The working group will decide later whether the infor=
mation model needs to be published as an RFC.
>>> Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and con=
figuration, are out of scope.
>>>
>>> Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to spe=
cify rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and monito=
r NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF wi=
ll only consider one single controller that can specify or change rules t=
o NSFs because multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid po=
tential conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities=
, but the database update and synchronization among multiple management e=
ntities are out of scope for I2NSF. As there are many different security =
vendors supporting different features and functions on their devices, I2N=
SF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flows,=
 such as Intrusion Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, =
flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matching and remediati=
on.
>>>
>>> I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the contro=
l and monitoring of network security functions:
>>>
>>> The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs =
at a functional implementation level.  The term =E2=80=9CFunctional Imple=
mentation=E2=80=9D is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
>>> monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will st=
andardize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can invoke, =
operate, and monitor NSFs.
>>>
>>> The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=E2=80=99 security policie=
s may be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements it=
s policies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF ca=
pability Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to monito=
r the client specific policies.
>>>
>>> Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies, =
the following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>>>      o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as clo=
sely as possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
>>> Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to hand=
le issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a =
given policy.
>>>      o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from=
 clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Ca=
pability Layer is out of scope.
>>>      o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies =
to Capability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
>>> However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational draf=
ts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service L=
ayer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions=
=2E  Such documents would be pursued outside the WG.
>>>
>>> Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NS=
Fs are essential building blocks for providers of security service to aut=
omate the use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will lev=
erage the existing protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF=
, and NETMOD working groups. If extensions to these protocols or data mod=
els are needed, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the extens=
ions will be developed in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the pr=
otocols.
>>>
>>> The I2NSF WG=E2=80=99s deliverables include:
>>>
>>>      o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and g=
ap analysis document. This document will initially be produced for refere=
nce as a living list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide t=
o not publish this document as an RFC.
>>>      o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSF=
s and the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will a=
lso be a reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to n=
ot publish this document as an RFC.
>>>      o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified=
, Information Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based =
NSFs.
>>>      o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>>>      o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enabl=
es the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a vendo=
r-neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standard=
ized. The registry enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, to=
 be used to match monitor and control functions to the needs of an applic=
ation and/or environment.
>>> An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identif=
y the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring inform=
ation between the NSFs and their management entities. This document may a=
lso be produced as a working document that is not published as an RFC.
>>>
>>> The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe requi=
rements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to =
explain how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NS=
Fs, and to describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of t=
he data models. These documents may be published as Informational RFCs of=
 may be working documents that are discarded once they have triggered the=
 necessary work.
>>>
>>> The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The =
WG will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage o=
pen source code development related to the WG scope in organizations like=
 ONF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net> wr=
ote:
>>>> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charte=
r.
>>>> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for =
the I2NSF
>>>> charter.   The charter text is located at
>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send
>>>> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
> .
>



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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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Hi Flemming,

Thanks for the quick responses so we can resolve this quickly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:22 PM, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> wrot=
e:
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On 8/26/15 7:34 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>> Thanks for the additional comments.  I have some comments inline.
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>> Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. In a=
ny case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter below (=
some more substantial than others):
>>>=20
>>> - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we can a=
rgue about some of the points in there for various security functions (e.g. I=
 may want to detect normal network behavior to establish a baseline, which d=
oes not seem to be covered by the current definition). I don't think that wi=
ll be a productive discussion though, nor is it necessary. Instead, I'd sugg=
est we are not overly prescriptive, but rather view these as possible NSF fe=
atures, and supplement them with some actual product examples (e.g. FW, NGFW=
, IPS, etc.). Similarly, since we limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we m=
ay want to make that clear here. An example of a security function that woul=
d *not* be in scope may be helpful too.
>> I believe these points are well covered in the full charter already.  If y=
ou have text that you think clarifies these points without restating them, t=
hat would be helpful.
> I don't - I have trouble determining where to draw the line between securi=
ty functions in scope and out of scope and was hoping for further clarificat=
ion to help with that.

Ah, I believe this has been discussed and Linda can summarize.

>>> - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multiple e=
ntities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ? If so,=
 that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.
>> I think we should leave that alone and don't think it necessarily implies=
 a 1:N relationship.
>>> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security controller=
" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, the security con=
troller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the "Capabilit=
y Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that interact with the security con=
troller to implement policies (by leveraging the service layer). If so, it w=
ould be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I=
 probably need some clarifications in the text.
>> What specific text would you propose?  I think the point is already clear=
, but if you have proposed text, that may be more helpful to see your point c=
learly.
> Assuming the above understanding is correct, then something along the line=
s of:
>=20
> In I2NSF, a client that wants to provision security policies to NSFs does s=
o by interacting with a security controller. The client leverages the I2NSF S=
ervice Layer interface to the security controller, which in turn interacts w=
ith one or more NSFs through the I2NSF Capability Layer interface.
>=20
>=20

This is a bit too detailed for the charter in my opinion.  Of others think t=
his is helpful, please speak up.  This should be clear in the framework draf=
t though.

Thanks for proposed text.


>>> - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement abou=
t "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you mean all N=
SFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different types of NSFs) ?
>> There is already a list of possible NSF device types in the charter.  Is a=
dditional text needed to make this point more clear?  I read it as pretty cl=
ear already, but seeing a proposal might help.
> Assuming it applies to given type of NSF, then I would simply qualify it t=
hat way, so it becomes:
>=20
> "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs of a given type" - n=
ot a big deal though.

Ok, since this isn't a big deal, let's leave it as-is.
>=20
>=20
>>> - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated" withou=
t further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or how to do that=
 in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be a deliverable ?
>> I think that's too much detail for an already very detailed charter.
> Agreed, so I would suggest it becomes one of the tasks of the WGs to defin=
e that.

Ok, we're good here.

Thanks,
Kathleen=20

>>> - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not (they=
 seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence are relevant=
 for consumers of the information and data models later on) ?
>> This is a decision the WG can make and is typical for IETF WGs to revisit=
 these decisions.  If you'd like them published, please make that known when=
 this assessment is made.
> Ok.
>>=20
>>> - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Informational d=
rafts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing to me. T=
he work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no deliverables and=
 presumably no agenda time will be allocated either. It's also not clear to m=
e that we can/should state that such documents would be Informational. We ma=
y decide that we need some procedures for how to define such documents, have=
 designated experts, a directorate, etc. to review them etc. I'm guessing th=
is is all a bit premature though, but again, we may want to note that as an i=
ssue in the charter that the WG needs to resolve at some point.
>> This leaves open some leeway to avoid the need to re charter if work fits=
 into the existing charter, but is not an existing milestone.  This can be d=
ecided with the area director without lots of extra process.
> Ok.
>>>=20
>>> Nits:
>>> - first paragraph:
>>> s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
>>>=20
>>> - second last paragraph:
>>> s/RFCs of/RFCs or
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks
>> Thank you for the detailed review.
>=20
> Thanks for the quick response.
>=20
> -- Flemming
>=20
>> Kathleen
>>=20
>>> -- Flemming
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>>>> Kathleen,
>>>>=20
>>>> Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter description o=
n the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes: https:/=
/sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Linda
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen Moria=
rty
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
>>>> To: Joseph Salowey
>>>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>>>>=20
>>>> I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not chan=
ge the meaning of the charter text:
>>>>=20
>>>> A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure integrit=
y, confidentiality, and availability of network communications, to detect un=
wanted network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects of un=
wanted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly diverse envi=
ronments. Users of NSFs could consume network security services hosted by on=
e or more providers, which may be their own enterprise, service providers, o=
r a combination of both.  Similarly, service providers may offer their custo=
mers network security services that are enforced by multiple security produc=
ts and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be provided by physical=
 and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without standard interfaces to control a=
nd monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become virtually impossible for prov=
iders of security services to automate service offerings that utilize differ=
ent security functions from multiple vendors.
>>>>=20
>>>> The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data mo=
dels for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual NSFs. If=
 the working group finds it necessary to work on an information model before=
 the data models, to help provide guidance and derive the data models, it ma=
y do so. The working group will decide later whether the information model n=
eeds to be published as an RFC.
>>>> Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and confi=
guration, are out of scope.
>>>>=20
>>>> Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to speci=
fy rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and monitor NSFs=
 by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will only c=
onsider one single controller that can specify or change rules to NSFs becau=
se multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid potential conflic=
t of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the database=
 update and synchronization among multiple management entities are out of sc=
ope for I2NSF. As there are many different security vendors supporting diffe=
rent features and functions on their devices, I2NSF will focus on flow-based=
 NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/=
Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspe=
ction, or pattern matching and remediation.
>>>>=20
>>>> I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control a=
nd monitoring of network security functions:
>>>>=20
>>>> The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs at=
 a functional implementation level.  The term =E2=80=9CFunctional Implementa=
tion=E2=80=9D is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
>>>> monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will stan=
dardize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can invoke, opera=
te, and monitor NSFs.
>>>>=20
>>>> The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=E2=80=99 security policies m=
ay be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its poli=
cies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF capability L=
ayer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to monitor the client s=
pecific policies.
>>>>=20
>>>> Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies, th=
e following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>>>>     o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as closel=
y as possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
>>>> Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle=
 issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a given=
 policy.
>>>>     o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from cl=
ients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the Capabili=
ty Layer is out of scope.
>>>>     o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to C=
apability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
>>>> However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational drafts=
 on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service Layer p=
olicies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions.  Such d=
ocuments would be pursued outside the WG.
>>>>=20
>>>> Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of NSFs=
 are essential building blocks for providers of security service to automate=
 the use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will leverage th=
e existing protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMO=
D working groups. If extensions to these protocols or data models are needed=
, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will be deve=
loped in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the protocols.
>>>>=20
>>>> The I2NSF WG=E2=80=99s deliverables include:
>>>>=20
>>>>     o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap a=
nalysis document. This document will initially be produced for reference as a=
 living list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide to not publi=
sh this document as an RFC.
>>>>     o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs a=
nd the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will also be=
 a reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to not publis=
h this document as an RFC.
>>>>     o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, I=
nformation Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based NSFs.
>>>>     o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>>>>     o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables t=
he characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a vendor-neutr=
al vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The r=
egistry enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, to be used to ma=
tch monitor and control functions to the needs of an application and/or envi=
ronment.
>>>> An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify t=
he appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring information b=
etween the NSFs and their management entities. This document may also be pro=
duced as a working document that is not published as an RFC.
>>>>=20
>>>> The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe require=
ments for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to expla=
in how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and t=
o describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of the data mode=
ls. These documents may be published as Informational RFCs of may be working=
 documents that are discarded once they have triggered the necessary work.
>>>>=20
>>>> The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG=
 will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open s=
ource code development related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF, Op=
enStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net> wrot=
e:
>>>>> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.=

>>>>> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for th=
e I2NSF
>>>>> charter.   The charter text is located at
>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send
>>>>> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>>>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>> .
>=20
>=20


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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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On 8/26/15 10:33 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>
>>>> - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ? If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.
>>> I think we should leave that alone and don't think it necessarily implies a 1:N relationship.
>>>> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, the security controller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the "Capability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that interact with the security controller to implement policies (by leveraging the service layer). If so, it would be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I probably need some clarifications in the text.
>>> What specific text would you propose?  I think the point is already clear, but if you have proposed text, that may be more helpful to see your point clearly.
>> Assuming the above understanding is correct, then something along the lines of:
>>
>> In I2NSF, a client that wants to provision security policies to NSFs does so by interacting with a security controller. The client leverages the I2NSF Service Layer interface to the security controller, which in turn interacts with one or more NSFs through the I2NSF Capability Layer interface.
>>
>>
> This is a bit too detailed for the charter in my opinion.  Of others think this is helpful, please speak up.  This should be clear in the framework draft though.
The framework draft is an individual draft that may or may not be 
adopted by the WG in its current form. If the above baseline is assumed 
by I2NSF, then I think it would be useful to capture that as part of the 
charter. If the baseline requires further WG discussion, then obviously 
we should not put it in the charter at this point.

Thanks

-- Flemming




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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
Thread-Topic: Further clarification and explanations to I2NSF charter has been added to the I2NSF Wiki Q&A (was RE: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
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From: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Further clarification and explanations to I2NSF charter has been added to the I2NSF Wiki Q&A (was RE: Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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Thanks Linda

Taking a quick look at the Wiki:
- I noticed that your definition of an NSF explicitly prohibits any 
packet modification such as NAT or MAC rewrite; this will exclude a 
large portion of current NSFs (e.g. it's commonly used by FWs and ADCs) 
- is that intentional ?

- You mention that "logging" is out of scope, yet in other places you 
refer to reporting, analytics, etc., and the charter talks about 
monitoring. Can you clarify ?


Also, a couple of my questions below still seem to be open, but there is 
a parallel exchange with Kathleen on some of those, so maybe we can 
resolve them there.

Cheers

-- Flemming


On 8/27/15 12:29 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
> Flemming,
>
> I have updated the Q&A on the I2NSF Wiki to clarify the questions you 
> have: https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/i2nsf-q-a/i2nsfqa
>
> Hope it helps. Please let me know if you have more questions or 
> suggestions for I2NSF charter.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Linda
>
> *From:*Flemming Andreasen [mailto:fandreas@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:01 PM
> *To:* Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey
> *Cc:* i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
> On 8/26/15 7:31 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>     Flemming,
>
>     Thank you very much for the detailed comments. Thank you for
>     catching those typos (corrected on the I2NSF wiki now). We really
>     need the fresh set of eyes to look at it.
>
>     You stated:
>
>     - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by
>     multiple entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring
>     relationship ?
>
>     If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.
>
>     [Linda] The intent is to describe a scenario that a NSF may send
>     different outputs to different entities. For example, some
>     statistics report to “Analytics system”, “rule query” to
>     management entity. Can you suggest a better wording for this?
>
> I see. I'm not sure I would get into that level of detail in the 
> charter, but since you introduce the notion of "features and 
> functions", you could for example say
>
> "The NSFs may contain a multitude of features and functions, each of 
> which can be monitored by a different entity"
>
> or something like that.
>
>
>
> Other Replies are inserted below:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flemming Andreasen [mailto:fandreas@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:46 PM
> To: Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
> Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. In 
> any case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter 
> below (some more substantial than others):
>
> - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we 
> can argue about some of the points in there for various security 
> functions (e.g. I may want to detect normal network behavior to 
> establish a baseline, which does not seem to be covered by the current 
> definition).
>
> [Linda] Over the course of I2NSF (about a year), we have gone through 
> a long debate on what NSFs should be considered by IETF I2NSF. As the 
> result of the long debate, we use the definition to classify a set of 
> functions to be considered for IETF I2NSF (then further narrowing down 
> to Flow-based NSFs).
>
> The function you described, i.e. detecting normal network behavior to 
> establish a baseline is not in the scope of I2NSF, even though this 
> function can also be "provided and consumed in increasingly diverse 
> environments".
>
> Ok - the part about "detect unwanted network activity" is fairly broad 
> though, and I'm not sure how you detect unwanted activity without 
> looking at all activity (which is what triggered my original question).
>
>
> I don't think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is it 
> necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly prescriptive, but 
> rather view these as possible NSF features, and supplement them with 
> some actual product examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly, 
> since we limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we may want to make 
> that clear here. An example of a security function that would *not* be 
> in scope may be helpful too.
>
> [Linda] All the NSFs in I2NSF context are “features”, whose form 
> factor can be provided physical box or virtualized format. Some form 
> factors, i.e. devices or VM, can provide multiple “functions”. Do you 
> think the sentences in the third paragraph is good enough to describe 
> what you want?
>
> /“I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to 
> packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection System 
> (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or 
> pattern matching and remediation.” /
>
> The examples here are clear; I'm less clear on what else might be in 
> scope. For example, would a DDoS detection and mitigation system be in 
> scope (keeping in mind it may use a combination of packet inspection 
> and telemetry-based detection and mitigation and that establishing a 
> "normal" baseline is often part of the operation) ?
>
>
> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security 
> controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, 
> the security controller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF 
> implements the "Capability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that 
> interact with the security controller to implement policies (by 
> leveraging the service layer). If so, it would be good to clarify this 
> taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I probably need some 
> clarifications in the text.
>
> [Linda] “Security controller” is a conceptual entity, meaning an 
> entity to send implementable rules (capability layer) to the NSFs. 
> There could be multiple of them, each responsible for one type of NSF 
> (i.e. managing the instances of the NSFs).
>
> I2NSF includes “Simple Service Layer” that models closely to the 
> “Capability Layer”. For example: client can specify the rules without 
> specify which instances of the NSF. The “Controller” manage the 
> instances, as described by The figure in I2NSF Framework document:
>
> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
>
> |  NSF-A  +--------------+ |  |  NSF-B  +--------------+      |
>
> |         |   Controller|      | |         |   Controller|      |
>
> |         +--------------+ |  |         +--------------+      |
>
> | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |
>
> | |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |
>
> | || NSF-A#1 | ... |  NSF-A#n|| |  | ||  NSF-B#1| ... |  NSF-B#m|| |
>
> | |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |
>
> | |         NSF-A cluster     | |  | |          NSF-B cluster    | |
>
> | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |
>
> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
>
> Ok - this basic framework seems to be foundational to the structure of 
> the work the group is doing. If so, I think it would be helpful to 
> outline it (verbally) in the charter.
>
>
> - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement 
> about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you 
> mean all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different 
> types of NSFs) ?
>
> [Linda] yes.
>
> - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated"
>
> without further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or 
> how to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be 
> a deliverable ?
>
> [Linda] “simple” means that they can be directly translated to 
> capability layer rules with simple mapping, e.g. without explicit 
> stating which instantiation, may have customer ID that can be 
> translated to some tags carried by packets
>
> Ok - if that's the definition we want to use, can we clarify it in the 
> charter ?
>
>
> - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not 
> (they seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence 
> are relevant for consumers of the information and data models later on) ?
>
> [Linda] The WG group may decide to publish them as RFC or not later. 
> But the charter doesn’t specify which way. That is how IESG wanted.
>
> Ok.
>
> - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Informational 
> drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing 
> to me. The work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no 
> deliverables and presumably no agenda time will be allocated either.
>
> [Linda] this is to address the information documents that describe the 
> I2NSF demo, open source or interoperability initiatives that are 
> conducted outside the WG. E.g 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/
>
> Ok - thanks for the pointer, however from a WG point of view, I'm not 
> clear on what it means to have a discussion forum and what, if 
> anything, the WG will do with it (e.g. discuss such drafts as part of 
> meetings, etc) ?
>
>
> It's also not clear to me that we can/should state that such documents 
> would be Informational. We may decide that we need some procedures for 
> how to define such documents, have designated experts, a directorate, 
> etc. to review them etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature 
> though, but again, we may want to note that as an issue in the charter 
> that the WG needs to resolve at some point.
>
> [Linda] Agree with you. I will see how AD wants to address this 
> suggestion .
>
> Ok
>
> Nits:
>
> - first paragraph:
>
> s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
>
> - second last paragraph:
>
> s/RFCs of/RFCs or
>
> [Linda] Thank you for the catch. They are corrected on the I2NSF wiki 
> now.
>
> Thanks for the quick response and updates.
>
> -- Flemming
>
>
> Thanks
>
> -- Flemming
>
> On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
> > Kathleen,
>
> >
>
> > Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter description
>
> > on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes:
>
> >https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home 
> <https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Linda
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen
>
> > Moriarty
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
>
> > To: Joseph Salowey
>
> > Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>
> > Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
> >
>
> > I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not change 
> the meaning of the charter text:
>
> >
>
> > A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure 
> integrity, confidentiality, and availability of network 
> communications, to detect unwanted network activity, and to block or 
> at least the mitigate effects of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided 
> and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. Users of NSFs could 
> consume network security services hosted by one or more providers, 
> which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a combination 
> of both.  Similarly, service providers may offer their customers 
> network security services that are enforced by multiple security 
> products and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be provided 
> by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without standard 
> interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become 
> virtually impossible for providers of security services to automate 
> service offerings that utilize different security functions from 
> multiple vendors.
>
> >
>
> > The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data 
> models for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual 
> NSFs. If the working group finds it necessary to work on an 
> information model before the data models, to help provide guidance and 
> derive the data models, it may do so. The working group will decide 
> later whether the information model needs to be published as an RFC.
>
> > Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and 
> configuration, are out of scope.
>
> >
>
> > Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to 
> specify rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and 
> monitor NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of 
> I2NSF will only consider one single controller that can specify or 
> change rules to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the 
> coordination to avoid potential conflict of rules. The NSFs can be 
> monitored by multiple entities, but the database update and 
> synchronization among multiple management entities are out of scope 
> for I2NSF. As there are many different security vendors supporting 
> different features and functions on their devices, I2NSF will focus on 
> flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flows, such as 
> Intrusion Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow 
> filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matching and remediation.
>
> >
>
> > I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control and 
> monitoring of network security functions:
>
> >
>
> > The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs
>
> > at a functional implementation level.  The term “Functional
>
> > Implementation” is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
>
> > monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will 
> standardize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can 
> invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.
>
> >
>
> > The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients’ security policies may be 
> expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its 
> policies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF 
> capability Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to 
> monitor the client specific policies.
>
> >
>
> > Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies, the 
> following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>
> >      o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as closely as 
> possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
>
> > Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to handle 
> issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for a 
> given policy.
>
> >      o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from 
> clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the 
> Capability Layer is out of scope.
>
> >      o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to 
> Capability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
>
> > However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational 
> drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex 
> Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability 
> Layer functions. Such documents would be pursued outside the WG.
>
> >
>
> > Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of 
> NSFs are essential building blocks for providers of security service 
> to automate the use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work 
> will leverage the existing protocols and data models defined by the 
> I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working groups. If extensions to these 
> protocols or data models are needed, requirements will be developed by 
> this WG, and the extensions will be developed in cooperation with the 
> WGs responsible for the protocols.
>
> >
>
> > The I2NSF WG’s deliverables include:
>
> >
>
> >      o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap 
> analysis document. This document will initially be produced for 
> reference as a living list to track and record discussions: the WG may 
> decide to not publish this document as an RFC.
>
> >      o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs and 
> the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will also 
> be a reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to 
> not publish this document as an RFC.
>
> >      o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified, 
> Information Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-based 
> NSFs.
>
> >      o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>
> >      o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables the 
> characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a 
> vendor-neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be 
> standardized. The registry enables various mechanisms, including 
> policy rules, to be used to match monitor and control functions to the 
> needs of an application and/or environment.
>
> > An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to identify 
> the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring 
> information between the NSFs and their management entities. This 
> document may also be produced as a working document that is not 
> published as an RFC.
>
> >
>
> > The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe requirements 
> for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, to 
> explain how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based 
> NSFs, and to describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content 
> of the data models. These documents may be published as Informational 
> RFCs of may be working documents that are discarded once they have 
> triggered the necessary work.
>
> >
>
> > The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The WG will 
> communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage open 
> source code development related to the WG scope in organizations like 
> ONF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net 
> <mailto:joe@salowey.net>> wrote:
>
> >> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the charter.
>
> >> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for the 
> I2NSF
>
> >> charter.   The charter text is located at
>
> >>https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home 
> <https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home>. Please send
>
> >> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>
> >>
>
> >> Thank you,
>
> >>
>
> >> Joe
>
> >>
>
> >> _______________________________________________
>
> >> I2nsf mailing list
>
> >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
> >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf 
> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>


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    Thanks Linda<br>
    <br>
    Taking a quick look at the Wiki:<br>
    - I noticed that your definition of an NSF explicitly prohibits any
    packet modification such as NAT or MAC rewrite; this will exclude a
    large portion of current NSFs (e.g. it's commonly used by FWs and
    ADCs) - is that intentional ? <br>
    <br>
    - You mention that "logging" is out of scope, yet in other places
    you refer to reporting, analytics, etc., and the charter talks about
    monitoring. Can you clarify ? <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Also, a couple of my questions below still seem to be open, but
    there is a parallel exchange with Kathleen on some of those, so
    maybe we can resolve them there.<br>
    <br>
    Cheers<br>
    <br>
    -- Flemming<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/27/15 12:29 PM, Linda Dunbar
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D1A09B@dfweml701-chm"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Flemming,
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I
            have updated the Q&amp;A on the I2NSF Wiki to clarify the
            questions you have:  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/i2nsf-q-a/i2nsfqa">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/i2nsf-q-a/i2nsfqa</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hope
            it helps. Please let me know if you have more questions or
            suggestions for I2NSF charter.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Linda
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                Flemming Andreasen [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:fandreas@cisco.com">mailto:fandreas@cisco.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:01 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph
                Salowey<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF
                Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 8/26/15 7:31 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Flemming,
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thank you
                very much for the detailed comments. Thank you for
                catching those typos (corrected on the I2NSF wiki now).
                We really need the fresh set of eyes to look at it.
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">You
                stated:
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The
                third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by
                multiple entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct)
                monitoring relationship ?
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">If so,
                that seems to get to a design decision that may be
                premature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                The intent is to describe a scenario that a NSF may send
                different outputs to different entities. For example,
                some statistics report to “Analytics system”, “rule
                query” to management entity. Can you suggest a better
                wording for this? </span><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I see. I'm not sure I would get into that
          level of detail in the charter, but since you introduce the
          notion of "features and functions", you could for example say
          <br>
          <br>
          "The NSFs may contain a multitude of features and functions,
          each of which can be monitored by a different entity"
          <br>
          <br>
          or something like that. <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Other
              Replies are inserted below:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">-----Original
              Message-----<br>
              From: Flemming Andreasen [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:fandreas@cisco.com">mailto:fandreas@cisco.com</a>]
              <br>
              Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:46 PM<br>
              To: Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey<br>
              Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
              Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Apologies
              for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO.
              In any case, please find some additional comments on the
              proposed charter below (some more substantial than
              others):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The first
              paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we
              can argue about some of the points in there for various
              security functions (e.g. I may want to detect normal
              network behavior to establish a baseline, which does not
              seem to be covered by the current definition).
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              Over the course of I2NSF (about a year), we have gone
              through a long debate on what NSFs should be considered by
              IETF I2NSF. As the result of the long debate, we use the
              definition to classify a set of functions to be considered
              for IETF I2NSF (then further narrowing down to Flow-based
              NSFs).
            </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">The
              function you described, i.e. detecting normal network
              behavior to establish a baseline is not in the scope of
              I2NSF, even though this function can also be "provided and
              consumed in increasingly diverse environments". </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - the part about "detect unwanted
          network activity" is fairly broad though, and I'm not sure how
          you detect unwanted activity without looking at all activity
          (which is what triggered my original question).
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">I don't
              think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is
              it necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly
              prescriptive, but rather view these as possible NSF
              features, and supplement them with some actual product
              examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly, since we
              limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we may want to make
              that clear here. An example of a security function that
              would *not* be in scope may be helpful too.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              All the NSFs in I2NSF context are “features”, whose form
              factor can be provided physical box or virtualized format.
              Some form factors, i.e. devices or VM, can provide
              multiple “functions”. Do you think the sentences in the
              third paragraph is good enough to describe what you want?
            </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#0070C0">“I2NSF
                will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to
                packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection
                System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep
                packet inspection, or pattern matching and remediation.”
              </span>
            </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">The examples here are clear; I'm less clear
          on what else might be in scope. For example, would a DDoS
          detection and mitigation system be in scope (keeping in mind
          it may use a combination of packet inspection and
          telemetry-based detection and mitigation and that establishing
          a "normal" baseline is often part of the operation) ?
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The
              charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security
              controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand
              correctly, the security controller implements the "Service
              Layer" and the NSF implements the "Capability Layer".
              Furthermore, we have "clients" that interact with the
              security controller to implement policies (by leveraging
              the service layer). If so, it would be good to clarify
              this taxonomy earlier in the charter. If not, then I
              probably need some clarifications in the text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              “Security controller” is a conceptual entity, meaning an
              entity to send implementable rules (capability layer) to
              the NSFs. There could be multiple of them, each
              responsible for one type of NSF (i.e. managing the
              instances of the NSFs). </span>
            <span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">I2NSF
              includes “Simple Service Layer” that models closely to the
              “Capability Layer”. For example: client can specify the
              rules without specify which instances of the NSF. The
              “Controller” manage the instances, as described by The
              figure in I2NSF Framework document:</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">|  NSF-A  +--------------+     
              |  |  NSF-B  +--------------+      |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">|         |   Controller|      | 
              |         |   Controller|      |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">|         +--------------+     
              |  |         +--------------+      |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">| + - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
              |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">| |+---------+     +---------+|
              |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">| || NSF-A#1 | ... |  NSF-A#n||
              |  | ||  NSF-B#1| ... |  NSF-B#m|| |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">| |+---------+     +---------+|
              |  | |+---------+     +---------+| |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">| |         NSF-A cluster     |
              |  | |          NSF-B cluster    | |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">| + - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
              |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;;color:#0070C0">+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#0070C0"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - this basic framework seems to be
          foundational to the structure of the work the group is doing.
          If so, I think it would be helpful to outline it (verbally) in
          the charter.
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- In the
              definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement
              about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most
              NSFs". Do you mean all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I
              assume we have different types of NSFs) ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              yes.
            </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- Policies
              are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated"
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">without
              further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line
              or how to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that
              part needs to be a deliverable ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              “simple” means that they can be directly translated to
              capability layer rules with simple mapping, e.g. without
              explicit stating which instantiation, may have customer ID
              that can be translated to some tags carried by packets</span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - if that's the definition we want to
          use, can we clarify it in the charter ?<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- A number
              of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not
              (they seem to set the stage for several other deliverables
              and hence are relevant for consumers of the information
              and data models later on) ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              The WG group may decide to publish them as RFC or not
              later. But the charter doesn’t specify which way. That is
              how IESG wanted.
            </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ok. <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The part
              about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for
              Informational drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer
              policies]..." is confusing to me. The work seems to be
              pursued outside the WG, so there are no deliverables and
              presumably no agenda time will be allocated either.
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              this is to address the information documents that describe
              the I2NSF demo, open source or interoperability
              initiatives that are conducted outside the WG. E.g
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/</a></span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - thanks for the pointer, however from a
          WG point of view, I'm not clear on what it means to have a
          discussion forum and what, if anything, the WG will do with it
          (e.g. discuss such drafts as part of meetings, etc) ?
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">It's also
              not clear to me that we can/should state that such
              documents would be Informational. We may decide that we
              need some procedures for how to define such documents,
              have designated experts, a directorate, etc. to review
              them etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature though,
              but again, we may want to note that as an issue in the
              charter that the WG needs to resolve at some point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              Agree with you. I will see how AD wants to address this
              suggestion .
            </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ok<br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Nits:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- first
              paragraph:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">s/the
              mitigate/mitigate the/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- second
              last paragraph:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">s/RFCs
              of/RFCs or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
              Thank you for the catch. They are corrected on the I2NSF
              wiki now.
            </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the quick response and updates.
          <br>
          <br>
          -- Flemming <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">-- Flemming<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">On 8/26/15
              5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              Kathleen,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Thank
              you very much for the editorial changes. The charter
              description
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; on the
              I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested
              changes:
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">
                <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Linda<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; From:
              I2nsf [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
              On Behalf Of Kathleen
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              Moriarty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Sent:
              Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; To:
              Joseph Salowey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Cc: <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; I have
              a few editorial changes in the following text that does
              not change the meaning of the charter text:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; A
              Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to
              ensure integrity, confidentiality, and availability of
              network communications, to detect unwanted network
              activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects of
              unwanted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in
              increasingly diverse environments. Users of NSFs could
              consume network security services hosted by one or more
              providers, which may be their own enterprise, service
              providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly, service
              providers may offer their customers network security
              services that are enforced by multiple security products
              and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be
              provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure.
              Without standard interfaces to control and monitor the
              behavior of NSFs, it has become virtually impossible for
              providers of security services to automate service
              offerings that utilize different security functions from
              multiple vendors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
              goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces
              and data models for controlling and monitoring aspects of
              physical and virtual NSFs. If the working group finds it
              necessary to work on an information model before the data
              models, to help provide guidance and derive the data
              models, it may do so. The working group will decide later
              whether the information model needs to be published as an
              RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Other
              aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning
              and configuration, are out of scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the
              ability to specify rules (by a single controller at the
              first phase), query, and monitor NSFs by one or more
              management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will only
              consider one single controller that can specify or change
              rules to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the
              coordination to avoid potential conflict of rules. The
              NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the
              database update and synchronization among multiple
              management entities are out of scope for I2NSF. As there
              are many different security vendors supporting different
              features and functions on their devices, I2NSF will focus
              on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to
              packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection
              System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep
              packet inspection, or pattern matching and remediation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; I2NSF
              will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the
              control and monitoring of network security functions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
              I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and
              monitor NSFs
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; at a
              functional implementation level.  The term “Functional
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              Implementation” is used to emphasize that the rules (for
              control and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs.
              I2NSF will standardize a set of interfaces by which a
              security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
              I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients’ security policies
              may be expressed to a security controller. The controller
              implements its policies according to the various
              capabilities provided by the I2NSF capability Layer.  The
              I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to monitor the
              client specific policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Since
              there could be many depths or types of Service Layer
              policies, the following bullets further clarify the scope
              of I2NSF:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as
              closely as possible on the Capability Layer are within the
              scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Such a
              Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to
              handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between
              available NSFs for a given policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies
              from clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the
              model used by the Capability Layer is out of scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer
              policies to Capability layer comments are out of scope for
              I2NSF.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for
              Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that
              demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies and
              formats may be translated to Capability Layer functions. 
              Such documents would be pursued outside the WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
              Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the
              behavior of NSFs are essential building blocks for
              providers of security service to automate the use of
              different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will
              leverage the existing protocols and data models defined by
              the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working groups. If
              extensions to these protocols or data models are needed,
              requirements will be developed by this WG, and the
              extensions will be developed in cooperation with the WGs
              responsible for the protocols.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
              I2NSF WG’s deliverables include:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              A single document covering use cases, problem statement,
              and gap analysis document. This document will initially be
              produced for reference as a living list to track and
              record discussions: the WG may decide to not publish this
              document as an RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of
              NSFs and the purpose of the models developed by the WG.
              This document will also be a reference text to guide the
              main work and the WG may decide to not publish this
              document as an RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              If the working group considers it necessary, a single,
              unified, Information Model to describe the control and
              monitoring of flow-based NSFs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;      o
              Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that
              enables the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be
              specified using a vendor-neutral vocabulary without
              requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The
              registry enables various mechanisms, including policy
              rules, to be used to match monitor and control functions
              to the needs of an application and/or environment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; An
              examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to
              identify the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling
              and monitoring information between the NSFs and their
              management entities. This document may also be produced as
              a working document that is not published as an RFC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The WG
              may additionally choose to develop documents to describe
              requirements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols
              used by the WG, to explain how the data models are used to
              monitor and control flow-based NSFs, and to describe how
              to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of the data
              models. These documents may be published as Informational
              RFCs of may be working documents that are discarded once
              they have triggered the necessary work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The WG
              will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs.
              The WG will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV
              and will encourage open source code development related to
              the WG scope in organizations like ONF, OpenStack, ODL,
              and OPNFV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; On Wed,
              Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey &lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joe@salowey.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joe@salowey.net">joe@salowey.net</a></a>&gt;
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
              Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing
              the charter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; I
              believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus
              call for the I2NSF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
              charter.   The charter text is located at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">
                <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></a>. 
              Please send <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
              comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2,
              2015.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
              Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; Joe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
              _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
              I2nsf mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; <a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">
                <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
Thread-Topic: Further clarification and explanations to I2NSF charter has been added to the I2NSF Wiki Q&A (was RE: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 20:27:10 +0000
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Further clarification and explanations to I2NSF charter has been added to the I2NSF Wiki Q&A (was RE: Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
Thread-Topic: Question about the wording used in  I2NSF Q&A WIKI  for NSF examples
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 20:42:44 +0000
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Subject: [I2nsf] Question about the wording used in I2NSF Q&A WIKI for NSF examples
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net>
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From: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:13:25 -0400
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Further clarification and explanations to I2NSF charter has been added to the I2NSF Wiki Q&A (was RE: Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
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On 8/27/15 4:27 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
> Flemming,
>
> Comments are inserted below:
>
> *From:*Flemming Andreasen [mailto:fandreas@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2015 2:53 PM
> *To:* Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey
> *Cc:* i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: Further clarification and explanations to I2NSF charter 
> has been added to the I2NSF Wiki Q&A (was RE: [I2nsf] Consensus call 
> on I2NSF Charter
>
> Thanks Linda
>
> Taking a quick look at the Wiki:
> - I noticed that your definition of an NSF explicitly prohibits any 
> packet modification such as NAT or MAC rewrite; this will exclude a 
> large portion of current NSFs (e.g. it's commonly used by FWs and 
> ADCs) - is that intentional ?
>
> [Linda] This is not my intention. I don’t remember who put the last 
> clause in (i.e. without modification to the packet due to the 
> inspection process (MAC rewrites, TTL decrement action; even NAT would 
> be outside the inspection process).. I can pull the mailing list if it 
> ok to remove the last clause.
>
>
>
> - You mention that "logging" is out of scope, yet in other places you 
> refer to reporting, analytics, etc., and the charter talks about 
> monitoring. Can you clarify ?
> [Linda] Yes, “logging” is referring to analytics, such algorithms, 
> benchmark, etc.
>
Ok - we should probably change the Q&A on logging then.

> Also, a couple of my questions below still seem to be open, but there 
> is a parallel exchange with Kathleen on some of those, so maybe we can 
> resolve them there.
>
> [Linda] do you mean the questions like “why framework, use cases may 
> not be published as RFCs”? Can you help me out with the questions?
>
>
I believe Kathleen clarified the RFC publication part.

The main one I'm still not clear on is the types of NSFs that are in/out 
of scope. Providing an exact definition of those is not easy though, 
since the lines are often blurred (per my DDoS example in the e-mail 
below). What may work better is simply listing the ones that are 
explicitly known to be in scope (which the current charter text 
essentially does), but leave it open for further WG discussion as to 
what other ones (if any) may be in scope as well (perhaps with a phased 
approach with additional milestones added for those later on).

The other ones were mainly around calling out the basic framework 
(client/security controller/NSF and the layers between them) as part of 
the charter and clarification of simple vs abstract/sophisticated 
policies. With the current charter text, they are both open to 
interpretation (and hence further debate and subsequent speficiation) 
IMO, but maybe that's not a bad thing and the WG should indeed spend 
more time on that once it's formed ?

Thanks

-- Flemming

>
> Cheers
>
> -- Flemming
>
> On 8/27/15 12:29 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>     Flemming,
>
>     I have updated the Q&A on the I2NSF Wiki to clarify the questions
>     you have:
>     https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/i2nsf-q-a/i2nsfqa
>
>     Hope it helps. Please let me know if you have more questions or
>     suggestions for I2NSF charter.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Linda
>
>     *From:*Flemming Andreasen [mailto:fandreas@cisco.com]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:01 PM
>     *To:* Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey
>     *Cc:* i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
>     On 8/26/15 7:31 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>         Flemming,
>
>         Thank you very much for the detailed comments. Thank you for
>         catching those typos (corrected on the I2NSF wiki now). We
>         really need the fresh set of eyes to look at it.
>
>         You stated:
>
>         - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by
>         multiple entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct)
>         monitoring relationship ?
>
>         If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be
>         premature.
>
>         [Linda] The intent is to describe a scenario that a NSF may
>         send different outputs to different entities. For example,
>         some statistics report to “Analytics system”, “rule query” to
>         management entity. Can you suggest a better wording for this?
>
>     I see. I'm not sure I would get into that level of detail in the
>     charter, but since you introduce the notion of "features and
>     functions", you could for example say
>
>     "The NSFs may contain a multitude of features and functions, each
>     of which can be monitored by a different entity"
>
>     or something like that.
>
>
>
>
>     Other Replies are inserted below:
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Flemming Andreasen [mailto:fandreas@cisco.com]
>     Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:46 PM
>     To: Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey
>     Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>     Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
>     Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from
>     PTO. In any case, please find some additional comments on the
>     proposed charter below (some more substantial than others):
>
>     - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and
>     we can argue about some of the points in there for various
>     security functions (e.g. I may want to detect normal network
>     behavior to establish a baseline, which does not seem to be
>     covered by the current definition).
>
>     [Linda] Over the course of I2NSF (about a year), we have gone
>     through a long debate on what NSFs should be considered by IETF
>     I2NSF. As the result of the long debate, we use the definition to
>     classify a set of functions to be considered for IETF I2NSF (then
>     further narrowing down to Flow-based NSFs).
>
>     The function you described, i.e. detecting normal network behavior
>     to establish a baseline is not in the scope of I2NSF, even though
>     this function can also be "provided and consumed in increasingly
>     diverse environments".
>
>     Ok - the part about "detect unwanted network activity" is fairly
>     broad though, and I'm not sure how you detect unwanted activity
>     without looking at all activity (which is what triggered my
>     original question).
>
>
>
>     I don't think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is
>     it necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly prescriptive,
>     but rather view these as possible NSF features, and supplement
>     them with some actual product examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.).
>     Similarly, since we limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we may
>     want to make that clear here. An example of a security function
>     that would *not* be in scope may be helpful too.
>
>     [Linda] All the NSFs in I2NSF context are “features”, whose form
>     factor can be provided physical box or virtualized format. Some
>     form factors, i.e. devices or VM, can provide multiple
>     “functions”. Do you think the sentences in the third paragraph is
>     good enough to describe what you want?
>
>     /“I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to
>     packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection System
>     (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet inspection,
>     or pattern matching and remediation.” /
>
>     The examples here are clear; I'm less clear on what else might be
>     in scope. For example, would a DDoS detection and mitigation
>     system be in scope (keeping in mind it may use a combination of
>     packet inspection and telemetry-based detection and mitigation and
>     that establishing a "normal" baseline is often part of the
>     operation) ?
>
>
>
>     - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security
>     controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand
>     correctly, the security controller implements the "Service Layer"
>     and the NSF implements the "Capability Layer". Furthermore, we
>     have "clients" that interact with the security controller to
>     implement policies (by leveraging the service layer). If so, it
>     would be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the charter. If
>     not, then I probably need some clarifications in the text.
>
>     [Linda] “Security controller” is a conceptual entity, meaning an
>     entity to send implementable rules (capability layer) to the NSFs.
>     There could be multiple of them, each responsible for one type of
>     NSF (i.e. managing the instances of the NSFs).
>
>     I2NSF includes “Simple Service Layer” that models closely to the
>     “Capability Layer”. For example: client can specify the rules
>     without specify which instances of the NSF. The “Controller”
>     manage the instances, as described by The figure in I2NSF
>     Framework document:
>
>     + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
>
>     |  NSF-A +--------------+      |  |  NSF-B  +--------------+ |
>
>     |         | Controller|      |  |         |   Controller|      |
>
>     | +--------------+      |  |         +--------------+ |
>
>     | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |
>
>     | |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+ +---------+| |
>
>     | || NSF-A#1 | ... |  NSF-A#n|| |  | ||  NSF-B#1| ... |  NSF-B#m|| |
>
>     | |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+ +---------+| |
>
>     | | NSF-A cluster     | |  | |          NSF-B cluster    | |
>
>     | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |
>
>     + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
>
>     Ok - this basic framework seems to be foundational to the
>     structure of the work the group is doing. If so, I think it would
>     be helpful to outline it (verbally) in the charter.
>
>
>
>     - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a
>     statement about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most
>     NSFs". Do you mean all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we
>     have different types of NSFs) ?
>
>     [Linda] yes.
>
>     - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated"
>
>     without further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line
>     or how to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs
>     to be a deliverable ?
>
>     [Linda] “simple” means that they can be directly translated to
>     capability layer rules with simple mapping, e.g. without explicit
>     stating which instantiation, may have customer ID that can be
>     translated to some tags carried by packets
>
>     Ok - if that's the definition we want to use, can we clarify it in
>     the charter ?
>
>
>
>     - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not
>     (they seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and
>     hence are relevant for consumers of the information and data
>     models later on) ?
>
>     [Linda] The WG group may decide to publish them as RFC or not
>     later. But the charter doesn’t specify which way. That is how IESG
>     wanted.
>
>     Ok.
>
>
>     - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for
>     Informational drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer
>     policies]..." is confusing to me. The work seems to be pursued
>     outside the WG, so there are no deliverables and presumably no
>     agenda time will be allocated either.
>
>     [Linda] this is to address the information documents that describe
>     the I2NSF demo, open source or interoperability initiatives that
>     are conducted outside the WG. E.g
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/
>
>     Ok - thanks for the pointer, however from a WG point of view, I'm
>     not clear on what it means to have a discussion forum and what, if
>     anything, the WG will do with it (e.g. discuss such drafts as part
>     of meetings, etc) ?
>
>
>
>     It's also not clear to me that we can/should state that such
>     documents would be Informational. We may decide that we need some
>     procedures for how to define such documents, have designated
>     experts, a directorate, etc. to review them etc. I'm guessing this
>     is all a bit premature though, but again, we may want to note that
>     as an issue in the charter that the WG needs to resolve at some point.
>
>     [Linda] Agree with you. I will see how AD wants to address this
>     suggestion .
>
>     Ok
>
>
>     Nits:
>
>     - first paragraph:
>
>     s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
>
>     - second last paragraph:
>
>     s/RFCs of/RFCs or
>
>     [Linda] Thank you for the catch. They are corrected on the I2NSF
>     wiki now.
>
>     Thanks for the quick response and updates.
>
>     -- Flemming
>
>
>
>     Thanks
>
>     -- Flemming
>
>     On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
>     > Kathleen,
>
>     >
>
>     > Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter description
>
>     > on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes:
>
>     >https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>     <https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home>
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > Linda
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > -----Original Message-----
>
>     > From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen
>
>     > Moriarty
>
>     > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
>
>     > To: Joseph Salowey
>
>     > Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     > Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>
>     >
>
>     > I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not
>     change the meaning of the charter text:
>
>     >
>
>     > A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure
>     integrity, confidentiality, and availability of network
>     communications, to detect unwanted network activity, and to block
>     or at least the mitigate effects of unwanted activity. NSFs are
>     provided and consumed in increasingly diverse environments. Users
>     of NSFs could consume network security services hosted by one or
>     more providers, which may be their own enterprise, service
>     providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly, service providers
>     may offer their customers network security services that are
>     enforced by multiple security products and/or functions from
>     different vendors. NSFs may be provided by physical and/or
>     virtualized infrastructure. Without standard interfaces to control
>     and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has become virtually
>     impossible for providers of security services to automate service
>     offerings that utilize different security functions from multiple
>     vendors.
>
>     >
>
>     > The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and data
>     models for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and
>     virtual NSFs. If the working group finds it necessary to work on
>     an information model before the data models, to help provide
>     guidance and derive the data models, it may do so. The working
>     group will decide later whether the information model needs to be
>     published as an RFC.
>
>     > Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and
>     configuration, are out of scope.
>
>     >
>
>     > Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to
>     specify rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query,
>     and monitor NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial
>     phase of I2NSF will only consider one single controller that can
>     specify or change rules to NSFs because multi-headed control
>     requires the coordination to avoid potential conflict of rules.
>     The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities, but the database
>     update and synchronization among multiple management entities are
>     out of scope for I2NSF. As there are many different security
>     vendors supporting different features and functions on their
>     devices, I2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide
>     treatment to packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection
>     System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep packet
>     inspection, or pattern matching and remediation.
>
>     >
>
>     > I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the control
>     and monitoring of network security functions:
>
>     >
>
>     > The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSFs
>
>     > at a functional implementation level.  The term “Functional
>
>     > Implementation” is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and
>
>     > monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF
>     will standardize a set of interfaces by which a security
>     controller can invoke, operate, and monitor NSFs.
>
>     >
>
>     > The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients’ security policies may be
>     expressed to a security controller. The controller implements its
>     policies according to the various capabilities provided by the
>     I2NSF capability Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the
>     client to monitor the client specific policies.
>
>     >
>
>     > Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies,
>     the following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>
>     >o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as
>     closely as possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
>
>     > Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to
>     handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available
>     NSFs for a given policy.
>
>     >o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies from
>     clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by
>     the Capability Layer is out of scope.
>
>     >o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policies to
>     Capability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
>
>     > However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational
>     drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more
>     complex Service Layer policies and formats may be translated to
>     Capability Layer functions.  Such documents would be pursued
>     outside the WG.
>
>     >
>
>     > Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior
>     of NSFs are essential building blocks for providers of security
>     service to automate the use of different NSFs from multiple
>     vendors. This work will leverage the existing protocols and data
>     models defined by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working groups. If
>     extensions to these protocols or data models are needed,
>     requirements will be developed by this WG, and the extensions will
>     be developed in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the
>     protocols.
>
>     >
>
>     > The I2NSF WG’s deliverables include:
>
>     >
>
>     >o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and gap
>     analysis document. This document will initially be produced for
>     reference as a living list to track and record discussions: the WG
>     may decide to not publish this document as an RFC.
>
>     >o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of NSFs
>     and the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document
>     will also be a reference text to guide the main work and the WG
>     may decide to not publish this document as an RFC.
>
>     >o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unified,
>     Information Model to describe the control and monitoring of
>     flow-based NSFs.
>
>     >o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>
>     >o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that enables
>     the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a
>     vendor-neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to
>     be standardized. The registry enables various mechanisms,
>     including policy rules, to be used to match monitor and control
>     functions to the needs of an application and/or environment.
>
>     > An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to
>     identify the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and
>     monitoring information between the NSFs and their management
>     entities. This document may also be produced as a working document
>     that is not published as an RFC.
>
>     >
>
>     > The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe
>     requirements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by
>     the WG, to explain how the data models are used to monitor and
>     control flow-based NSFs, and to describe how to use I2RS and
>     NETCONF to carry the content of the data models. These documents
>     may be published as Informational RFCs of may be working documents
>     that are discarded once they have triggered the necessary work.
>
>     >
>
>     > The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. The
>     WG will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will
>     encourage open source code development related to the WG scope in
>     organizations like ONF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net
>     <mailto:joe@salowey.net>> wrote:
>
>     >> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the
>     charter.
>
>     >> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call for
>     the I2NSF
>
>     >> charter.   The charter text is located at
>
>     >>https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>     <https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home>. Please send
>
>     >> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>
>     >>
>
>     >> Thank you,
>
>     >>
>
>     >> Joe
>
>     >>
>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>
>     >> I2nsf mailing list
>
>     >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf>
>
>     >>
>
>     >
>
>     >
>


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/27/15 4:27 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:<br>
    </div>
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            are inserted below:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                Flemming Andreasen [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:fandreas@cisco.com">mailto:fandreas@cisco.com</a>]
                <br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 27, 2015 2:53 PM<br>
                <b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph
                Salowey<br>
                <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: Further clarification and
                explanations to I2NSF charter has been added to the
                I2NSF Wiki Q&amp;A (was RE: [I2nsf] Consensus call on
                I2NSF Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks Linda<br>
          <br>
          Taking a quick look at the Wiki:<br>
          - I noticed that your definition of an NSF explicitly
          prohibits any packet modification such as NAT or MAC rewrite;
          this will exclude a large portion of current NSFs (e.g. it's
          commonly used by FWs and ADCs) - is that intentional ?
          <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Linda]
            This is not my intention. I don’t remember who put the last
            clause in (i.e.
          </span><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">without
            modification to the packet due to the inspection process
            (MAC rewrites, TTL decrement action; even NAT would be
            outside the inspection process).</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">.
            I can pull the mailing list if it ok to remove the last
            clause. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
          <br>
          - You mention that "logging" is out of scope, yet in other
          places you refer to reporting, analytics, etc., and the
          charter talks about monitoring. Can you clarify ?
          <br>
          <span style="color:#1F497D">[Linda] Yes, “logging” is
            referring to analytics, such algorithms, benchmark, etc.
          </span><br>
          <br>
        </p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Ok - we should probably change the Q&amp;A on logging then. <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D1A2CD@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
          Also, a couple of my questions below still seem to be open,
          but there is a parallel exchange with Kathleen on some of
          those, so maybe we can resolve them there.<span
            style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Linda]
            do you mean the questions like “why framework, use cases may
            not be published as RFCs”? Can you help me out with the
            questions?
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
        </p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I believe Kathleen clarified the RFC publication part. <br>
    <br>
    The main one I'm still not clear on is the types of NSFs that are
    in/out of scope. Providing an exact definition of those is not easy
    though, since the lines are often blurred (per my DDoS example in
    the e-mail below). What may work better is simply listing the ones
    that are explicitly known to be in scope (which the current charter
    text essentially does), but leave it open for further WG discussion
    as to what other ones (if any) may be in scope as well (perhaps with
    a phased approach with additional milestones added for those later
    on). <br>
    <br>
    The other ones were mainly around calling out the basic framework
    (client/security controller/NSF and the layers between them) as part
    of the charter and clarification of simple vs abstract/sophisticated
    policies. With the current charter text, they are both open to
    interpretation (and hence further debate and subsequent
    speficiation) IMO, but maybe that's not a bad thing and the WG
    should indeed spend more time on that once it's formed ? <br>
    <br>
    Thanks <br>
    <br>
    -- Flemming<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D1A2CD@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
          <br>
          Cheers<br>
          <br>
          -- Flemming<br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 8/27/15 12:29 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Flemming,
            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I
              have updated the Q&amp;A on the I2NSF Wiki to clarify the
              questions you have:  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/i2nsf-q-a/i2nsfqa">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/i2nsf-q-a/i2nsfqa</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hope
              it helps. Please let me know if you have more questions or
              suggestions for I2NSF charter.
            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,
            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Linda
            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Flemming Andreasen [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:fandreas@cisco.com">mailto:fandreas@cisco.com</a>]
                  <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:01 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph
                  Salowey<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF
                  Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 8/26/15 7:31 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Flemming,
                </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thank
                  you very much for the detailed comments. Thank you for
                  catching those typos (corrected on the I2NSF wiki
                  now). We really need the fresh set of eyes to look at
                  it.
                </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">You
                  stated:
                </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The
                  third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored
                  by multiple entities..."; does this imply a 1:N
                  (direct) monitoring relationship ?
                </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">If so,
                  that seems to get to a design decision that may be
                  premature.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                  The intent is to describe a scenario that a NSF may
                  send different outputs to different entities. For
                  example, some statistics report to “Analytics system”,
                  “rule query” to management entity. Can you suggest a
                  better wording for this? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal">I see. I'm not sure I would get into that
            level of detail in the charter, but since you introduce the
            notion of "features and functions", you could for example
            say
            <br>
            <br>
            "The NSFs may contain a multitude of features and functions,
            each of which can be monitored by a different entity"
            <br>
            <br>
            or something like that. <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Other
                Replies are inserted below:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">-----Original
                Message-----<br>
                From: Flemming Andreasen [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:fandreas@cisco.com">mailto:fandreas@cisco.com</a>]
                <br>
                Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:46 PM<br>
                To: Linda Dunbar; Kathleen Moriarty; Joseph Salowey<br>
                Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
                Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Apologies
                for joining the discussion late - just got back from
                PTO. In any case, please find some additional comments
                on the proposed charter below (some more substantial
                than others):</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The
                first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is,
                and we can argue about some of the points in there for
                various security functions (e.g. I may want to detect
                normal network behavior to establish a baseline, which
                does not seem to be covered by the current definition).
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                Over the course of I2NSF (about a year), we have gone
                through a long debate on what NSFs should be considered
                by IETF I2NSF. As the result of the long debate, we use
                the definition to classify a set of functions to be
                considered for IETF I2NSF (then further narrowing down
                to Flow-based NSFs).
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">The
                function you described, i.e. detecting normal network
                behavior to establish a baseline is not in the scope of
                I2NSF, even though this function can also be "provided
                and consumed in increasingly diverse environments". </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - the part about "detect unwanted
            network activity" is fairly broad though, and I'm not sure
            how you detect unwanted activity without looking at all
            activity (which is what triggered my original question).
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">I don't
                think that will be a productive discussion though, nor
                is it necessary. Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly
                prescriptive, but rather view these as possible NSF
                features, and supplement them with some actual product
                examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly, since we
                limit our scope to "flow-based NSFs", we may want to
                make that clear here. An example of a security function
                that would *not* be in scope may be helpful too.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                All the NSFs in I2NSF context are “features”, whose form
                factor can be provided physical box or virtualized
                format. Some form factors, i.e. devices or VM, can
                provide multiple “functions”. Do you think the sentences
                in the third paragraph is good enough to describe what
                you want?
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#0070C0">“I2NSF
                  will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment
                  to packets/flows, such as Intrusion
                  Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering,
                  flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern
                  matching and remediation.” </span>
              </i><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">The examples here are clear; I'm less
            clear on what else might be in scope. For example, would a
            DDoS detection and mitigation system be in scope (keeping in
            mind it may use a combination of packet inspection and
            telemetry-based detection and mitigation and that
            establishing a "normal" baseline is often part of the
            operation) ?
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The
                charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security
                controller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I
                understand correctly, the security controller implements
                the "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the
                "Capability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that
                interact with the security controller to implement
                policies (by leveraging the service layer). If so, it
                would be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the
                charter. If not, then I probably need some
                clarifications in the text.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                “Security controller” is a conceptual entity, meaning an
                entity to send implementable rules (capability layer) to
                the NSFs. There could be multiple of them, each
                responsible for one type of NSF (i.e. managing the
                instances of the NSFs). </span>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">I2NSF
                includes “Simple Service Layer” that models closely to
                the “Capability Layer”. For example: client can specify
                the rules without specify which instances of the NSF.
                The “Controller” manage the instances, as described by
                The figure in I2NSF Framework document:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">+ - - - - - - -
                - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">|  NSF-A 
                +--------------+      |  |  NSF-B  +--------------+     
                |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">|         |  
                Controller|      |  |         |   Controller|      |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">|        
                +--------------+      |  |         +--------------+     
                |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">| + - - - - - -
                - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">|
                |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+    
                +---------+| |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">| || NSF-A#1 |
                ... |  NSF-A#n|| |  | ||  NSF-B#1| ... |  NSF-B#m|| |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">|
                |+---------+     +---------+| |  | |+---------+    
                +---------+| |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">| |        
                NSF-A cluster     | |  | |          NSF-B cluster    | |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">| + - - - - - -
                - - - - - - - + |  | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - + |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
                ;color:#0070C0&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">+ - - - - - - -
                - - - - - - - - +  + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#0070C0"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - this basic framework seems to be
            foundational to the structure of the work the group is
            doing. If so, I think it would be helpful to outline it
            (verbally) in the charter.
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- In the
                definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a
                statement about "rules...of NSFs have to be
                implementable by most NSFs". Do you mean all NSFs or
                NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different types
                of NSFs) ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                yes.
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- Policies
                are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated"
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">without
                further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line
                or how to do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that
                part needs to be a deliverable ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                “simple” means that they can be directly translated to
                capability layer rules with simple mapping, e.g. without
                explicit stating which instantiation, may have customer
                ID that can be translated to some tags carried by
                packets</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - if that's the definition we want to
            use, can we clarify it in the charter ?<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- A number
                of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not
                (they seem to set the stage for several other
                deliverables and hence are relevant for consumers of the
                information and data models later on) ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                The WG group may decide to publish them as RFC or not
                later. But the charter doesn’t specify which way. That
                is how IESG wanted.
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ok. <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- The part
                about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for
                Informational drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer
                policies]..." is confusing to me. The work seems to be
                pursued outside the WG, so there are no deliverables and
                presumably no agenda time will be allocated either.
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                this is to address the information documents that
                describe the I2NSF demo, open source or interoperability
                initiatives that are conducted outside the WG. E.g
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xie-i2nsf-demo-outline-design/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ok - thanks for the pointer, however from
            a WG point of view, I'm not clear on what it means to have a
            discussion forum and what, if anything, the WG will do with
            it (e.g. discuss such drafts as part of meetings, etc) ?
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">It's also
                not clear to me that we can/should state that such
                documents would be Informational. We may decide that we
                need some procedures for how to define such documents,
                have designated experts, a directorate, etc. to review
                them etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature
                though, but again, we may want to note that as an issue
                in the charter that the WG needs to resolve at some
                point.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                Agree with you. I will see how AD wants to address this
                suggestion .
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ok<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Nits:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- first
                paragraph:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">s/the
                mitigate/mitigate the/</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">- second
                last paragraph:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">s/RFCs
                of/RFCs or</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0070C0">[Linda]
                Thank you for the catch. They are corrected on the I2NSF
                wiki now.
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the quick response and
            updates. <br>
            <br>
            -- Flemming <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">--
                Flemming</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">On 8/26/15
                5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                Kathleen,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Thank
                you very much for the editorial changes. The charter
                description
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; on
                the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your
                suggested changes:
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Linda</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                -----Original Message-----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; From:
                I2nsf [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
                On Behalf Of Kathleen
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                Moriarty</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Sent:
                Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; To:
                Joseph Salowey</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Cc: <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; I
                have a few editorial changes in the following text that
                does not change the meaning of the charter text:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; A
                Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to
                ensure integrity, confidentiality, and availability of
                network communications, to detect unwanted network
                activity, and to block or at least the mitigate effects
                of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in
                increasingly diverse environments. Users of NSFs could
                consume network security services hosted by one or more
                providers, which may be their own enterprise, service
                providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly, service
                providers may offer their customers network security
                services that are enforced by multiple security products
                and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs may be
                provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure.
                Without standard interfaces to control and monitor the
                behavior of NSFs, it has become virtually impossible for
                providers of security services to automate service
                offerings that utilize different security functions from
                multiple vendors.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
                goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces
                and data models for controlling and monitoring aspects
                of physical and virtual NSFs. If the working group finds
                it necessary to work on an information model before the
                data models, to help provide guidance and derive the
                data models, it may do so. The working group will decide
                later whether the information model needs to be
                published as an RFC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Other
                aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning
                and configuration, are out of scope.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the
                ability to specify rules (by a single controller at the
                first phase), query, and monitor NSFs by one or more
                management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF will
                only consider one single controller that can specify or
                change rules to NSFs because multi-headed control
                requires the coordination to avoid potential conflict of
                rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entities,
                but the database update and synchronization among
                multiple management entities are out of scope for I2NSF.
                As there are many different security vendors supporting
                different features and functions on their devices, I2NSF
                will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to
                packets/flows, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection
                System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering, flow filtering, deep
                packet inspection, or pattern matching and remediation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; I2NSF
                will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the
                control and monitoring of network security functions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
                I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and
                monitor NSFs
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; at a
                functional implementation level.  The term “Functional
              </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                Implementation” is used to emphasize that the rules (for
                control and</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs.
                I2NSF will standardize a set of interfaces by which a
                security controller can invoke, operate, and monitor
                NSFs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
                I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients’ security
                policies may be expressed to a security controller. The
                controller implements its policies according to the
                various capabilities provided by the I2NSF capability
                Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client
                to monitor the client specific policies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Since
                there could be many depths or types of Service Layer
                policies, the following bullets further clarify the
                scope of I2NSF:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are
                modeled as closely as possible on the Capability Layer
                are within the scope.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; Such
                a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller
                to handle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice
                between available NSFs for a given policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated
                policies from clients. Expressing policies in ways other
                than the model used by the Capability Layer is out of
                scope.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer
                policies to Capability layer comments are out of scope
                for I2NSF.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for
                Informational drafts on data models, APIs, etc. that
                demonstrate how more complex Service Layer policies and
                formats may be translated to Capability Layer
                functions.  Such documents would be pursued outside the
                WG.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;
                Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the
                behavior of NSFs are essential building blocks for
                providers of security service to automate the use of
                different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will
                leverage the existing protocols and data models defined
                by the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD working groups. If
                extensions to these protocols or data models are needed,
                requirements will be developed by this WG, and the
                extensions will be developed in cooperation with the WGs
                responsible for the protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
                I2NSF WG’s deliverables include:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o A single document covering use cases, problem
                statement, and gap analysis document. This document will
                initially be produced for reference as a living list to
                track and record discussions: the WG may decide to not
                publish this document as an RFC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o A framework document, presenting an overview of the
                use of NSFs and the purpose of the models developed by
                the WG. This document will also be a reference text to
                guide the main work and the WG may decide to not publish
                this document as an RFC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o If the working group considers it necessary, a single,
                unified, Information Model to describe the control and
                monitoring of flow-based NSFs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of
                NSFs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;     
                o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry
                that enables the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to
                be specified using a vendor-neutral vocabulary without
                requiring the NSFs themselves to be standardized. The
                registry enables various mechanisms, including policy
                rules, to be used to match monitor and control functions
                to the needs of an application and/or environment.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; An
                examination of existing secure communication mechanisms
                to identify the appropriate ones for carrying the
                controlling and monitoring information between the NSFs
                and their management entities. This document may also be
                produced as a working document that is not published as
                an RFC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
                WG may additionally choose to develop documents to
                describe requirements for extensions (if any) to
                existing protocols used by the WG, to explain how the
                data models are used to monitor and control flow-based
                NSFs, and to describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to
                carry the content of the data models. These documents
                may be published as Informational RFCs of may be working
                documents that are discarded once they have triggered
                the necessary work.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; The
                WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD
                WGs. The WG will communicate with external SDOs like
                ETSI NFV and will encourage open source code development
                related to the WG scope in organizations like ONF,
                OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; On
                Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey &lt;<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joe@salowey.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joe@salowey.net">joe@salowey.net</a></a>&gt;
                wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards
                developing the charter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; I
                believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus
                call for the I2NSF</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                charter.   The charter text is located at</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home">https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home</a></a>. 
                Please send </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September
                2, 2015.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                Joe</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                _______________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt;
                I2nsf mailing list</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt;&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas">&gt; </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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I agree.
Some comments inline.
Best, Tobias


On 27/08/15 04:33, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
> Hi Flemming,
>
> Thanks for the quick responses so we can resolve this quickly.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:22 PM, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 8/26/15 7:34 PM, Kathleen Moriarty wrote:
>>> Thanks for the additional comments.  I have some comments inline.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>=
 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Apologies for joining the discussion late - just got back from PTO. =
In any case, please find some additional comments on the proposed charter=
 below (some more substantial than others):
>>>>
>>>> - The first paragraph starts out by defining what an NSF is, and we =
can argue about some of the points in there for various security function=
s (e.g. I may want to detect normal network behavior to establish a basel=
ine, which does not seem to be covered by the current definition). I don'=
t think that will be a productive discussion though, nor is it necessary.=
 Instead, I'd suggest we are not overly prescriptive, but rather view the=
se as possible NSF features, and supplement them with some actual product=
 examples (e.g. FW, NGFW, IPS, etc.). Similarly, since we limit our scope=
 to "flow-based NSFs", we may want to make that clear here. An example of=
 a security function that would *not* be in scope may be helpful too.
>>> I believe these points are well covered in the full charter already. =
 If you have text that you think clarifies these points without restating=
 them, that would be helpful.
>> I don't - I have trouble determining where to draw the line between se=
curity functions in scope and out of scope and was hoping for further cla=
rification to help with that.
> Ah, I believe this has been discussed and Linda can summarize.
>
>>>> - The third paragraph says that "The NSFs can be monitored by multip=
le entities..."; does this imply a 1:N (direct) monitoring relationship ?=
 If so, that seems to get to a design decision that may be premature.
>>> I think we should leave that alone and don't think it necessarily imp=
lies a 1:N relationship.
>>>> - The charter seems to operate with the notion of a "security contro=
ller" that interacts with the "NSF". If I understand correctly, the secur=
ity controller implements the "Service Layer" and the NSF implements the =
"Capability Layer". Furthermore, we have "clients" that interact with the=
 security controller to implement policies (by leveraging the service lay=
er). If so, it would be good to clarify this taxonomy earlier in the char=
ter. If not, then I probably need some clarifications in the text.
>>> What specific text would you propose?  I think the point is already c=
lear, but if you have proposed text, that may be more helpful to see your=
 point clearly.
>> Assuming the above understanding is correct, then something along the =
lines of:
>>
>> In I2NSF, a client that wants to provision security policies to NSFs d=
oes so by interacting with a security controller. The client leverages th=
e I2NSF Service Layer interface to the security controller, which in turn=
 interacts with one or more NSFs through the I2NSF Capability Layer inter=
face.
>>
>>
> This is a bit too detailed for the charter in my opinion.  Of others th=
ink this is helpful, please speak up.  This should be clear in the framew=
ork draft though.

I agree that this does not need to go into the charter. It should be=20
discussed in a draft.

>
> Thanks for proposed text.
>
>
>>>> - In the definition of the "Capability Layer", there is a statement =
about "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs". Do you mea=
n all NSFs or NSFs of a given type (I assume we have different types of N=
SFs) ?
>>> There is already a list of possible NSF device types in the charter. =
 Is additional text needed to make this point more clear?  I read it as p=
retty clear already, but seeing a proposal might help.
>> Assuming it applies to given type of NSF, then I would simply qualify =
it that way, so it becomes:
>>
>> "rules...of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs of a given type=
" - not a big deal though.
> Ok, since this isn't a big deal, let's leave it as-is.

Yes, just leave as-is.

>>
>>>> - Policies are labeled as "simple" or "abstract or sophisticated" wi=
thout further definition; I'm not sure where we draw that line or how to =
do that in the charter; maybe clarifying that part needs to be a delivera=
ble ?
>>> I think that's too much detail for an already very detailed charter.
>> Agreed, so I would suggest it becomes one of the tasks of the WGs to d=
efine that.
> Ok, we're good here.

Agree.

Best regards and looking forward to I2NSF.

Tobias


>
> Thanks,
> Kathleen
>
>>>> - A number of deliverables may not be published as an RFC; why not (=
they seem to set the stage for several other deliverables and hence are r=
elevant for consumers of the information and data models later on) ?
>>> This is a decision the WG can make and is typical for IETF WGs to rev=
isit these decisions.  If you'd like them published, please make that kno=
wn when this assessment is made.
>> Ok.
>>>> - The part about I2NSF providing a "discussion forum for Information=
al drafts on.....[more complex Service Layer policies]..." is confusing t=
o me. The work seems to be pursued outside the WG, so there are no delive=
rables and presumably no agenda time will be allocated either. It's also =
not clear to me that we can/should state that such documents would be Inf=
ormational. We may decide that we need some procedures for how to define =
such documents, have designated experts, a directorate, etc. to review th=
em etc. I'm guessing this is all a bit premature though, but again, we ma=
y want to note that as an issue in the charter that the WG needs to resol=
ve at some point.
>>> This leaves open some leeway to avoid the need to re charter if work =
fits into the existing charter, but is not an existing milestone.  This c=
an be decided with the area director without lots of extra process.
>> Ok.
>>>> Nits:
>>>> - first paragraph:
>>>> s/the mitigate/mitigate the/
>>>>
>>>> - second last paragraph:
>>>> s/RFCs of/RFCs or
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>> Thank you for the detailed review.
>> Thanks for the quick response.
>>
>> -- Flemming
>>
>>> Kathleen
>>>
>>>> -- Flemming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/26/15 5:38 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>>>>> Kathleen,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you very much for the editorial changes. The charter descript=
ion on the I2NSF Wiki has been updated to reflect your suggested changes:=
 https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kathleen M=
oriarty
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:29 PM
>>>>> To: Joseph Salowey
>>>>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Consensus call on I2NSF Charter
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a few editorial changes in the following text that does not =
change the meaning of the charter text:
>>>>>
>>>>> A Network Security Function (NSF) is a function used to ensure inte=
grity, confidentiality, and availability of network communications, to de=
tect unwanted network activity, and to block or at least the mitigate eff=
ects of unwanted activity. NSFs are provided and consumed in increasingly=
 diverse environments. Users of NSFs could consume network security servi=
ces hosted by one or more providers, which may be their own enterprise, s=
ervice providers, or a combination of both.  Similarly, service providers=
 may offer their customers network security services that are enforced by=
 multiple security products and/or functions from different vendors. NSFs=
 may be provided by physical and/or virtualized infrastructure. Without s=
tandard interfaces to control and monitor the behavior of NSFs, it has be=
come virtually impossible for providers of security services to automate =
service offerings that utilize different security functions from multiple=
 vendors.
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal of I2NSF is to define a set of software interfaces and dat=
a models for controlling and monitoring aspects of physical and virtual N=
SFs. If the working group finds it necessary to work on an information mo=
del before the data models, to help provide guidance and derive the data =
models, it may do so. The working group will decide later whether the inf=
ormation model needs to be published as an RFC.
>>>>> Other aspects of NSFs, such as device or network provisioning and c=
onfiguration, are out of scope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Controlling and monitoring aspects of NSFs include the ability to s=
pecify rules (by a single controller at the first phase), query, and moni=
tor NSFs by one or more management entities.  The initial phase of I2NSF =
will only consider one single controller that can specify or change rules=
 to NSFs because multi-headed control requires the coordination to avoid =
potential conflict of rules. The NSFs can be monitored by multiple entiti=
es, but the database update and synchronization among multiple management=
 entities are out of scope for I2NSF. As there are many different securit=
y vendors supporting different features and functions on their devices, I=
2NSF will focus on flow-based NSFs that provide treatment to packets/flow=
s, such as Intrusion Protection/Detection System (IPS/IDS), Web filtering=
, flow filtering, deep packet inspection, or pattern matching and remedia=
tion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I2NSF will specify interfaces at two functional levels for the cont=
rol and monitoring of network security functions:
>>>>>
>>>>> The I2NSF Capability Layer specifies how to control and monitor NSF=
s at a functional implementation level.  The term =E2=80=9CFunctional Imp=
lementation=E2=80=9D is used to emphasize that the rules (for control and=

>>>>> monitor) of NSFs have to be implementable by most NSFs. I2NSF will =
standardize a set of interfaces by which a security controller can invoke=
, operate, and monitor NSFs.
>>>>>
>>>>> The I2NSF Service Layer defines how clients=E2=80=99 security polic=
ies may be expressed to a security controller. The controller implements =
its policies according to the various capabilities provided by the I2NSF =
capability Layer.  The I2NSF Service Layer also allows the client to moni=
tor the client specific policies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since there could be many depths or types of Service Layer policies=
, the following bullets further clarify the scope of I2NSF:
>>>>>      o Only the Simple Service Layer policies that are modeled as c=
losely as possible on the Capability Layer are within the scope.
>>>>> Such a Simple Service Layer will enable a security controller to ha=
ndle issues like multi-tenancy and the choice between available NSFs for =
a given policy.
>>>>>      o I2NSF will not specify abstract or sophisticated policies fr=
om clients. Expressing policies in ways other than the model used by the =
Capability Layer is out of scope.
>>>>>      o The translation mechanism/methods from Service Layer policie=
s to Capability layer comments are out of scope for I2NSF.
>>>>> However, I2NSF will provide a discussion forum for Informational dr=
afts on data models, APIs, etc. that demonstrate how more complex Service=
 Layer policies and formats may be translated to Capability Layer functio=
ns.  Such documents would be pursued outside the WG.
>>>>>
>>>>> Standard interfaces for monitoring and controlling the behavior of =
NSFs are essential building blocks for providers of security service to a=
utomate the use of different NSFs from multiple vendors. This work will l=
everage the existing protocols and data models defined by the I2RS, NETCO=
NF, and NETMOD working groups. If extensions to these protocols or data m=
odels are needed, requirements will be developed by this WG, and the exte=
nsions will be developed in cooperation with the WGs responsible for the =
protocols.
>>>>>
>>>>> The I2NSF WG=E2=80=99s deliverables include:
>>>>>
>>>>>      o A single document covering use cases, problem statement, and=
 gap analysis document. This document will initially be produced for refe=
rence as a living list to track and record discussions: the WG may decide=
 to not publish this document as an RFC.
>>>>>      o A framework document, presenting an overview of the use of N=
SFs and the purpose of the models developed by the WG. This document will=
 also be a reference text to guide the main work and the WG may decide to=
 not publish this document as an RFC.
>>>>>      o If the working group considers it necessary, a single, unifi=
ed, Information Model to describe the control and monitoring of flow-base=
d NSFs.
>>>>>      o YANG data models for the control and monitoring of NSFs.
>>>>>      o Requests to the IANA for the creation of a registry that ena=
bles the characteristics and behavior of NSFs to be specified using a ven=
dor-neutral vocabulary without requiring the NSFs themselves to be standa=
rdized. The registry enables various mechanisms, including policy rules, =
to be used to match monitor and control functions to the needs of an appl=
ication and/or environment.
>>>>> An examination of existing secure communication mechanisms to ident=
ify the appropriate ones for carrying the controlling and monitoring info=
rmation between the NSFs and their management entities. This document may=
 also be produced as a working document that is not published as an RFC.
>>>>>
>>>>> The WG may additionally choose to develop documents to describe req=
uirements for extensions (if any) to existing protocols used by the WG, t=
o explain how the data models are used to monitor and control flow-based =
NSFs, and to describe how to use I2RS and NETCONF to carry the content of=
 the data models. These documents may be published as Informational RFCs =
of may be working documents that are discarded once they have triggered t=
he necessary work.
>>>>>
>>>>> The WG will work closely with the I2RS, NETCONF, and NETMOD WGs. Th=
e WG will communicate with external SDOs like ETSI NFV and will encourage=
 open source code development related to the WG scope in organizations li=
ke ONF, OpenStack, ODL, and OPNFV.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Joseph Salowey <joe@salowey.net> =
wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks to everyone who has contributed towards developing the char=
ter.
>>>>>> I believe we are close to consensus so this is a consensus call fo=
r the I2NSF
>>>>>> charter.   The charter text is located at
>>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/interface2nsf/home.  Please send
>>>>>> comments on this charter to the I2NSF list by September 2, 2015.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>>>>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>> .
>>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



From nobody Mon Aug 31 07:47:59 2015
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Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)



The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-i2nsf/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The substance of the charter seems fine to me.  I just have some
editorial comments.

In the first sentence, I think you mean to change "and" to "or" -- that
is, one NSF does at least one of the things listed, not all of them.

In the second sentence, I don't know what it means for a *function* to be
"consumed".  Can you find better wording than "consumed" for this?

Please fix the artifact of MS Word's "smart quoting" that's resulted in
invalid characters ("???Functional Implementation???", "clients???
security policies", and "The I2NSF WG???s deliverables").

What are "Capability layer comments"?  (It's the "comments" part that I
don't follow (so I guess it's good that translating to them is out of
scope).)

We need a blank line after the bullet list (after the "Capability layer
comments" sentence), or else the "However" sentence needs to be merged
into the bullet.  (I'm thinking you mean the latter.)

I always prefer that "working group" be spelled out, so I suggest a
global change of "WG" to "working group", but take that as Barry's
preference and do as you like with it.

On "Working group re-charter or close: Charter time + 24 months", I'm
generally not thrilled with that sort of statement.  If what you want to
do is set a time limit, I think something more clear and explicit would
be better.  Something like, "The working group must have the above
deliverables completed within 24 months.  The responsible AD will close
the working group at that time if they are not completed or close to
completion.  The working group may be closed earlier if substantial
progress is not being made."  If something like that isn't what's meant,
then what *is* meant?



From nobody Mon Aug 31 13:36:57 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Barry Leiba's No Objection on charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01:	(with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Barry Leiba's No Objection on charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: (with COMMENT)
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Barry,=20

Thank you very much for the comments. Reply are inserted below:

-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 11:04 AM
To: The IESG
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] Barry Leiba's No Objection on charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: (w=
ith COMMENT)

Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email=
 addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introduc=
tory paragraph, however.)



The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-i2nsf/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The substance of the charter seems fine to me.  I just have some editorial =
comments.

In the first sentence, I think you mean to change "and" to "or" -- that is,=
 one NSF does at least one of the things listed, not all of them.
[Linda] very good catch. You are correct. I've changed it in the I2NSF Wiki=
.=20


In the second sentence, I don't know what it means for a *function* to be "=
consumed".  Can you find better wording than "consumed" for this?
[Linda] The intent is to describe "NSF" being used (or utilized), and NSFs =
becoming a resource that is available for consumption to build a security s=
ervice

How about changing to the following wording?=20

"NSFs are provide and utilized in increasingly diverse environment.  Users =
could consume network security services enforced by NSFs hosted by one or m=
ore providers, which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a c=
ombination of both."
=20



Please fix the artifact of MS Word's "smart quoting" that's resulted in inv=
alid characters ("???Functional Implementation???", "clients???
security policies", and "The I2NSF WG???s deliverables").
[Linda] I don't see the "???...???" at this link anymore.   https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/wg/i2nsf/charter/.=20


What are "Capability layer comments"?  (It's the "comments" part that I don=
't follow (so I guess it's good that translating to them is out of
scope).)

[Linda] It is supposed to be "Capability layer commands"=20


We need a blank line after the bullet list (after the "Capability layer com=
ments" sentence), or else the "However" sentence needs to be merged into th=
e bullet.  (I'm thinking you mean the latter.)

[Linda] the paragraph starting with "However..." is intended to be next bul=
let because it continues the further clarification of the "Service Layer".=
=20


I always prefer that "working group" be spelled out, so I suggest a global =
change of "WG" to "working group", but take that as Barry's preference and =
do as you like with it.
[Linda] OK.=20


On "Working group re-charter or close: Charter time + 24 months", I'm gener=
ally not thrilled with that sort of statement.  If what you want to do is s=
et a time limit, I think something more clear and explicit would be better.=
  Something like, "The working group must have the above deliverables compl=
eted within 24 months.  The responsible AD will close the working group at =
that time if they are not completed or close to completion.  The working gr=
oup may be closed earlier if substantial progress is not being made."  If s=
omething like that isn't what's meant, then what *is* meant?

[Linda] I will let Kathleen decide on this change then.=20

Thank you very much.=20

Linda

_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


From nobody Mon Aug 31 14:40:38 2015
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Barry Leiba's No Objection on charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: (with COMMENT)
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Thanks for the comments Barry and to Linda for the quick response.
Updates have been made as agreed.

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> wro=
te:
> Barry,
>
> Thank you very much for the comments. Reply are inserted below:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Barry Leiba
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 11:04 AM
> To: The IESG
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: [I2nsf] Barry Leiba's No Objection on charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: =
(with COMMENT)
>
> Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for
> charter-ietf-i2nsf-00-01: No Objection
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all ema=
il addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introd=
uctory paragraph, however.)
>
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-i2nsf/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The substance of the charter seems fine to me.  I just have some editoria=
l comments.
>
> In the first sentence, I think you mean to change "and" to "or" -- that i=
s, one NSF does at least one of the things listed, not all of them.
> [Linda] very good catch. You are correct. I've changed it in the I2NSF Wi=
ki.
>
>
> In the second sentence, I don't know what it means for a *function* to be=
 "consumed".  Can you find better wording than "consumed" for this?
> [Linda] The intent is to describe "NSF" being used (or utilized), and NSF=
s becoming a resource that is available for consumption to build a security=
 service
>
> How about changing to the following wording?
>
> "NSFs are provide and utilized in increasingly diverse environment.  User=
s could consume network security services enforced by NSFs hosted by one or=
 more providers, which may be their own enterprise, service providers, or a=
 combination of both."
>
>
>
>
> Please fix the artifact of MS Word's "smart quoting" that's resulted in i=
nvalid characters ("???Functional Implementation???", "clients???
> security policies", and "The I2NSF WG???s deliverables").
> [Linda] I don't see the "???...???" at this link anymore.   https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/wg/i2nsf/charter/.
>
>
> What are "Capability layer comments"?  (It's the "comments" part that I d=
on't follow (so I guess it's good that translating to them is out of
> scope).)
>
> [Linda] It is supposed to be "Capability layer commands"
>
>
> We need a blank line after the bullet list (after the "Capability layer c=
omments" sentence), or else the "However" sentence needs to be merged into =
the bullet.  (I'm thinking you mean the latter.)
>
> [Linda] the paragraph starting with "However..." is intended to be next b=
ullet because it continues the further clarification of the "Service Layer"=
.
>
>
> I always prefer that "working group" be spelled out, so I suggest a globa=
l change of "WG" to "working group", but take that as Barry's preference an=
d do as you like with it.
> [Linda] OK.
>
>
> On "Working group re-charter or close: Charter time + 24 months", I'm gen=
erally not thrilled with that sort of statement.  If what you want to do is=
 set a time limit, I think something more clear and explicit would be bette=
r.  Something like, "The working group must have the above deliverables com=
pleted within 24 months.  The responsible AD will close the working group a=
t that time if they are not completed or close to completion.  The working =
group may be closed earlier if substantial progress is not being made."  If=
 something like that isn't what's meant, then what *is* meant?
>
> [Linda] I will let Kathleen decide on this change then.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Linda
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen

