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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 21:32:00 +0000
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Subject: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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I2NSF participants,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface-im/ s=
pecifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.

For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using OpenStack=
's Group Policy structure ?

If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF simple ser=
vice layer can be expressed as

*        Policy Target Group (PTG). This is a group of Targets to which a t=
raffic policy can be applied. A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a cl=
ient virtual Subnet (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with publi=
c address families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logi=
cal AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that it=
 consumes or provides.

*        Target. This is used by the application client to establish commun=
ications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single Neutron Port, a p=
hysical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.

*        Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the tr=
affic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy Rule Set c=
onsists of one or more Policy Rules.

*        Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a =
set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.

*        Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to w=
hich a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list=
 of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.

*        Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that matc=
hes the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e. allow, deny,=
 mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions (e.g. X minutes cou=
nt, Y hours court), applying client specified functions (with URL provided)=
, or may refer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chain).

If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please let the=
 group know.

Thanks, Linda

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I2NSF participants, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xi=
a-i2nsf-capability-interface-im/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xi=
a-i2nsf-capability-interface-im/</a> specifies the structure for I2NSF capa=
bility layer rules.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people t=
hink of using OpenStack&#8217;s Group Policy structure ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structur=
e, the I2NSF simple service layer can be expressed as
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Policy Target Group (PTG). This is a group o=
f Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied. A PTG may be mapped to =
a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet (i.e. with private address prefix=
), a subnet with public address
 families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical AND, =
OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that it consumes=
 or provides.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Target. This is used by the application clie=
nt to establish communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a si=
ngle Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical e=
gress port.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used t=
o determine how the traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treate=
d. A Policy Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Tra=
ffic Classifier and a set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier desc=
ribes the traffic to which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed =
as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">&middot;<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;"=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Policy Action. This is the action applied to=
 the traffic that matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL act=
ion (i.e. allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functio=
ns (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours
 court), applying client specified functions (with URL provided), or may re=
fer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chain).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based P=
olicies, please let the group know.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, Linda <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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From nobody Thu Oct  1 22:18:15 2015
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To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:17:48 +0800
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Linda and Diego,

This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the
Group Based Policy.

I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.

If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF
Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.

What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?

/Loa

On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
> Hi Linda,
>
> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of OpenStack,
> that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and the Target
> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they seem
> very much associated with a particular implementation model and, what is
> more, with a limited network model.
>
> Be goode,
>
>
>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I2NSF participants,
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface-im/specifies
>> the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>> OpenStack’s Group Policy structure ?
>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>> simple service layer can be expressed as
>> ·Policy Target Group (PTG). This is a group of Targets to which a
>> traffic policy can be applied. A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron
>> Subnet, a client virtual Subnet (i.e. with private address prefix), a
>> subnet with public address families, or any combination of them with
>> logical operators (Logical AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or
>> more Policy Rule Sets that it consumes or provides.
>> ·Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
>> egress port.
>> ·Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>> ·Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a set
>> of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>> ·Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction,
>> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>> ·Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that matches
>> the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e. allow,
>> deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions (e.g. X
>> minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified functions
>> (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of functions
>> (i.e., a service chain).
>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please
>> let the group know.
>> Thanks, Linda
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.

Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:

Pros:
*       There are running codes (open sourced code)

Cons:
*       The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port orient=
ed. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not based on Open=
Stack Neutron.
*       They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on how=
 to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not complete,  a =
lot more need to be added.
*       There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy, w=
hich are quite different from the OpenStack's Group Based Policy.
*       May cause confusion in industry if calling "Group Based Policy" for=
 I2NSF Service Layer


However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover what i=
s needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flows c=
an be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks.  And they can be mapped t=
o the Capability layer's Subject-Object-Action-Function" paradigm.

To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term "Group b=
ased policy" (but inherent their concept only).

For example, "group" can be represented by "Composite Endpoints/Targets" or=
 Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where an "Endpoint" can be a =
subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.


*       Composite Endpoint (CEP).  Logical combination of  endpoint descrip=
tor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.

o       Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and =
value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of the End=
point Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as an IP address=
, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single value, a range of value=
s, or a group of values.

*       Target. This is used by the application client to establish communi=
cations over the network. A Target is mapped to a physical/logical ingress =
port, or a physical/logical egress port.

*       Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the tra=
ffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy Rule Set co=
nsists of one or more Policy Rules.
o       Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set o=
f Actions to be applied to the traffic.

*       Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be =
applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time range, an=
d a protocol.

*       Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that match=
es the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e. allow, deny, =
mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions (e.g. X minutes coun=
t, Y hours court), applying client specified functions (with URL provided),=
 or may refer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chain).

Comments are greatly appreciated.

Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?

Linda and Diego,

This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the Group B=
ased Policy.

I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.

If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service=
 Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.

What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?

/Loa

On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
> Hi Linda,
>
> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
> OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and
> the Target
> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they seem
> very much associated with a particular implementation model and, what
> is more, with a limited network model.
>
> Be goode,
>
>
>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I2NSF participants,
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>> OpenStack's Group Policy structure ?
>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>> simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group (PTG).
>> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied.
>> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical
>> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that
>> it consumes or provides.
>> =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
>> egress port.
>> =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>> =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a
>> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>> =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction,
>> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>> =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of
>> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please
>> let the group know.
>> Thanks, Linda
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
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> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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> If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server">
<!-- converted from rtf -->
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<body>
<font face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;">
<div>Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:</d=
iv>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Pros:</div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:54pt;">
<li>There are running codes (open sourced code) </li></ul>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Cons:</div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:54pt;">
<li>The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port oriented. =
It is not straight forward for an environment that is not based on OpenStac=
k Neutron. </li><li>They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-base=
d NSF on how to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not c=
omplete,&nbsp; a lot more need to be added. </li><li>There are other &quot;=
Group Based Policy&quot;, e.g. Window's Group Policy, which are quite diffe=
rent from the OpenStack&#8217;s Group Based Policy. </li><li>May cause conf=
usion in industry if calling &#8220;Group Based Policy&#8221; for I2NSF Ser=
vice Layer</li></ul>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover w=
hat is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how their fl=
ows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks.  And they can be map=
ped to the Capability layer&#8217;s Subject-Object-Action-Function&#8221;
paradigm. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term &#8=
220;Group based policy&#8221; (but inherent their concept only). </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>For example, &#8220;group&#8221; can be represented by &#8220;Composit=
e Endpoints/Targets&#8221; or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), =
where an &#8220;Endpoint&#8221; can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applicat=
ions, etc. </div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Composite Endpoint (CEP).  =
Logical combination of  endpoint descriptor IDs, where descriptor can be su=
bnet, set of hosts, or applications. </li></span></font>
</ul>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:72pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). =
Each endpoint descriptor has a type and value that are used to partially id=
entify the endpoint. The type of the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base netw=
orking identifier, such as an IP address,
or a user-defined type. The value may be a single value, a range of values,=
 or a group of values. </li></span></font>
</ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;"><font face=3D"Times New Ro=
man" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Target. This is used by the=
 application client to establish communications over the network. A Target =
is mapped to a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress =
port.</li></span></font>
</ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;padding-left:36pt;"><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</s=
pan></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Policy Rule Set. A Policy R=
ule Set is used to determine how the traffic between a pair of Target Group=
s is to be treated. A Policy Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.=
 </li></span></font>
</ul>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:72pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Policy Rule. A Policy Rule =
consists of a Policy context and a set of Actions to be applied to the traf=
fic. </li></span></font>
</ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;padding-left:72pt;"><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</s=
pan></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Policy Context. Context tha=
t describes when a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direc=
tion, a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol. </li></span></font>
</ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;padding-left:36pt;"><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;">&nbsp;</s=
pan></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin:0;padding-left:36pt;">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;">
<li style=3D"margin-top:4pt;margin-bottom:4pt;">Policy Action. This is the =
action applied to the traffic that matches the classifier. An action may be=
 a simple ACL action (i.e. allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known s=
tatistics functions (e.g. X minutes
count, Y hours court), applying client specified functions (with URL provid=
ed), or may refer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chai=
n).</li></span></font>
</ul>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Comments are greatly appreciated. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Linda </div>
<div>-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Loa Andersson [<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">mailto:loa@pi.nu</a>] <br=
>

Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM<br>

To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar<br>

Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org<br>

Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?</div>
<div><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Linda and Diego,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the Gr=
oup Based Policy.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.</di=
v>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>If we want to use&nbsp; OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2N=
SF Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>/Loa</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:</div>
<div>&gt; Hi Linda,</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; I am not completely sure that the current networking model of </d=
iv>
<div>&gt; OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG =
and </div>
<div>&gt; the Target</div>
<div>&gt; itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general securi=
ty </div>
<div>&gt; functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they=
 seem </div>
<div>&gt; very much associated with a particular implementation model and, =
what </div>
<div>&gt; is more, with a limited network model.</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; Be goode,</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar &lt;linda.dunbar@huawe=
i.com </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com">mailto:linda.d=
unbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:</div>
<div>&gt;&gt;</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; I2NSF participants,</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-c=
apability-interface">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capab=
ility-interface</a></div>
<div>&gt;&gt; -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.=
</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of u=
sing </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; OpenStack&#8217;s Group Policy structure ?</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2=
NSF </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Gro=
up (PTG). </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be a=
pplied. </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Sub=
net </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public addr=
ess </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; families, or any combination of them with logical operators (=
Logical </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Se=
ts that </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; it consumes or provides.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establis=
h </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a sing=
le </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/=
logical </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; egress port.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine ho=
w the </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A P=
olicy </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifie=
r and a </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traf=
fic to </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a di=
rection, </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic t=
hat </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action =
(i.e. </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics fun=
ctions </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specif=
ied </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered seq=
uence of </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; functions (i.e., a service chain).</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, =
please </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; let the group know.</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; Thanks, Linda</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; I2nsf mailing list</div>
<div>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org</a>&gt; </div>
<div>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https=
://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a></div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; --</div>
<div>&gt; &quot;Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno&quot;</div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; Dr Diego R. Lopez</div>
<div>&gt; Telefonica I&#43;D</div>
<div>&gt; <a href=3D"http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/">http://people.tid.e=
s/diego.lopez/</a></div>
<div>&gt;</div>
<div>&gt; e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com">diego.r.l=
opez@telefonica.com</a></div>
<div>&gt; Tel:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;34 913 129 041</div>
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From nobody Tue Oct  6 01:57:20 2015
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Linda,

How different is "endpoint" from "host" as it used in RFC 1122, RFC 1123
and RFC 5505?

/Loa

On 2015-10-06 05:45, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
> Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:
> Pros:
>
>   * There are running codes (open sourced code)
>
> Cons:
>
>   * The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>     oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not
>     based on OpenStack Neutron.
>   * They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on how
>     to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>     complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>   * There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy,
>     which are quite different from the OpenStack’s Group Based Policy.
>   * May cause confusion in industry if calling “Group Based Policy” for
>     I2NSF Service Layer
>
> However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover
> what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how
> their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And they
> can be mapped to the Capability layer’s Subject-Object-Action-Function”
> paradigm.
> To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term
> “Group based policy” (but inherent their concept only).
> For example, “group” can be represented by “Composite Endpoints/Targets”
> or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where an “Endpoint” can
> be a subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.
>
>   * Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint descriptor
>     IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.
>
>   * Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and
>     value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of
>     the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as
>     an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>     value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>
>   * Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>     communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>     physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>
>   * Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>     traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>     Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>   * Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set of
>     Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>   * Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be
>     applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>     range, and a protocol.
>
>   * Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>     matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>     allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>     (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>     functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>     of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
> Comments are greatly appreciated.
> Linda
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
> To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group
> Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
> Linda and Diego,
> This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the
> Group Based Policy.
> I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
> If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF
> Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
> What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
> /Loa
> On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>> Hi Linda,
>>
>> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
>> OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and
>> the Target
>> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
>> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they seem
>> very much associated with a particular implementation model and, what
>> is more, with a limited network model.
>>
>> Be goode,
>>
>>
>>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I2NSF participants,
>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>>> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>>> OpenStack’s Group Policy structure ?
>>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>>> simple service layer can be expressed as ·Policy Target Group (PTG).
>>> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied.
>>> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>>> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>>> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical
>>> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that
>>> it consumes or provides.
>>> ·Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>>> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>>> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
>>> egress port.
>>> ·Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>>> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>>> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>>> ·Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a
>>> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>>> ·Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>>> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction,
>>> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>>> ·Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>>> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>>> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>>> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>>> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of
>>> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please
>>> let the group know.
>>> Thanks, Linda
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>> --
>> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>>
>> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>> Telefonica I+D
>>http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>>
>> e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
>> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>> ----------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>


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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Hi Linda,

I have been talking about this with one of the policy experts in the SECURE=
D project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can identify him, thou=
gh he is in the I2NSF list as well=85) and these are his comments:

8<=97

In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet generic =
way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very similar.
It is network management rather then security management. You can express s=
imple network policies (commands) and associate to network nodes and groups=
.

GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.
Something is general (like the definition of rules as (classifier,action)) =
but it requires several extensions that, in the end, when completed will le=
ad to PCIM or SG17-like models.

Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting point, and a=
lso easier to push SECURED results.

"Policy Classifier" is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (as networ=
king people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is something mor=
e intelligent).

Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very limited sub=
set of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet filters). However, the mo=
del (condition,action) is general enough to cope with future needs (by addi=
ng more classifiers).

There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no easy link t=
o NSF categorization for interoperability).

Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities, no other=
 sophisticated ways to express policies.

8<=97

I=92ll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my position is tha=
t we should consider an existing general framework as starting point, and t=
hat PCIM (see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy) is the most promising o=
ne.

Be goode,



On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com<mailto:lind=
a.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:

Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.

Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:

Pros:

  *   There are running codes (open sourced code)


Cons:

  *   The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port oriented=
. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not based on OpenSt=
ack Neutron.
  *   They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on how t=
o treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not complete,  a lo=
t more need to be added.
  *   There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy, whi=
ch are quite different from the OpenStack=92s Group Based Policy.
  *   May cause confusion in industry if calling =93Group Based Policy=94 f=
or I2NSF Service Layer



However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover what i=
s needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flows c=
an be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And they can be mapped to=
 the Capability layer=92s Subject-Object-Action-Function=94 paradigm.

To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term =93Group=
 based policy=94 (but inherent their concept only).

For example, =93group=94 can be represented by =93Composite Endpoints/Targe=
ts=94 or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where an =93Endpoint=
=94 can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.



  *   Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint descriptor =
IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.



  *   Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and va=
lue that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of the Endpo=
int Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as an IP address, =
or a user-defined type. The value may be a single value, a range of values,=
 or a group of values.



  *   Target. This is used by the application client to establish communica=
tions over the network. A Target is mapped to a physical/logical ingress po=
rt, or a physical/logical egress port.



  *   Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the traff=
ic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy Rule Set cons=
ists of one or more Policy Rules.

  *   Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set of =
Actions to be applied to the traffic.



  *   Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be ap=
plied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time range, and =
a protocol.



  *   Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that matches=
 the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e. allow, deny, mi=
rroring), applying a well known statistics functions (e.g. X minutes count,=
 Y hours court), applying client specified functions (with URL provided), o=
r may refer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chain).


Comments are greatly appreciated.

Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?

Linda and Diego,

This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the Group B=
ased Policy.

I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.

If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service=
 Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.

What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?

/Loa

On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
> Hi Linda,
>
> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
> OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and
> the Target
> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they seem
> very much associated with a particular implementation model and, what
> is more, with a limited network model.
>
> Be goode,
>
>
>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com<mailto:l=
inda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I2NSF participants,
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>> OpenStack=92s Group Policy structure ?
>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>> simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group (PTG).
>> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied.
>> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical
>> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that
>> it consumes or provides.
>> =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
>> egress port.
>> =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>> =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a
>> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>> =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction,
>> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>> =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of
>> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please
>> let the group know.
>> Thanks, Linda
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su
> destinatario, puede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y
> es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es
> usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura,
> utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar
> prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este
> mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por
> esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.
>
> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual
> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
> Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this
> communication in error and then delete it.
>
> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
> destinat=E1rio, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e=
 =E9
> para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa
> senhoria o destinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura,
> utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode esta=
r proibida
> em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro,
> rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e
> proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> I2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------


________________________________

Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu=
ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus=
ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind=
icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o=
 copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=
=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo =
comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti=
al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named =
above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are=
 hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this co=
mmunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission =
in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you h=
ave received this communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio=
, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex=
clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des=
tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, div=
ulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode estar proibida em virtude=
 da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe =
que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destru=
i=E7=E3o

--_000_B984884E85884F18A2C521865BF7EA36telefonicacom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <A2DF4C59EA4655479F043A80C299E32E@eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">
Hi Linda,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">I have been talking about this with one of the policy exper=
ts in the SECURED project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can id=
entify him, though he is in the I2NSF list as well=85) and these are his co=
mments:</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">8&lt;=97</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">In my under=
standing, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet generic way to asso=
ciate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very similar.</span><br style=3D"f=
ont-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">It is network management ra=
ther then security management. You can express simple network policies (com=
mands) and associate to network nodes and groups.</span><br style=3D"font-f=
amily: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">GBP is not a generic framew=
ork for expressing policies.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=
=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">Something is general (like =
the definition of rules as (classifier,action)) but it requires several ext=
ensions that, in the end, when completed will lead to PCIM or SG17-like mod=
els.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">Thus, in my opinion, SG17/P=
CIM are certainly a better starting point, and also easier to push SECURED =
results.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">&quot;Policy Classifier&quo=
t; is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (as networking people likes=
 the word classifier, for me a classifier is something more intelligent).</=
span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">Conditions available on Ope=
nStack Group Policies are now a very limited subset of l4 filtering (they d=
on't even cover packet filters). However, the model (condition,action) is g=
eneral enough to cope with future needs
 (by adding more classifiers).</span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" cla=
ss=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">There is no way to categori=
ze policies (thus no capabilities no easy link to NSF categorization for in=
teroperability).</span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
<span style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">Then, no resolution strateg=
ies, no default actions, no priorities, no other sophisticated ways to expr=
ess policies.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Monaco;" class=3D"">
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">8&lt;=97</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">I=92ll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my=
 position is that we should consider an existing general framework as start=
ing point, and that PCIM (see
<a href=3D"http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy" class=3D"">http://www.dmtf=
.org/standards/policy</a>) is the most promising one.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Be goode,</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" class=3D"">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2" style=3D"font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; lin=
e-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-=
transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -web=
kit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" =
class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.<span class=3D"App=
le-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based=
 Policy:</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">Pros:</div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 54pt;" class=3D"">
<li class=3D"">There are running codes (open sourced code)<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></li></ul>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">Cons:</div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 54pt;" class=3D"">
<li class=3D"">The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port=
 oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not based =
on OpenStack Neutron.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></l=
i><li class=3D"">They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based N=
SF on how to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not comp=
lete,&nbsp; a lot more need to be added.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spac=
e">&nbsp;</span></li><li class=3D"">There are other &quot;Group Based Polic=
y&quot;, e.g. Window's Group Policy, which are quite different from the Ope=
nStack=92s Group Based Policy.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span></li><li class=3D"">May cause confusion in industry if calling =93Gro=
up Based Policy=94 for I2NSF Service Layer</li></ul>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action=
 do cover what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on h=
ow their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And they =
can be mapped to the Capability layer=92s
 Subject-Object-Action-Function=94 paradigm.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-=
space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using t=
he term =93Group based policy=94 (but inherent their concept only).<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">For example, =93group=94 can be represented by =93Composite=
 Endpoints/Targets=94 or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where=
 an =93Endpoint=94 can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 36pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Composite End=
point (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint descriptor IDs, where descript=
or can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.<span class=3D"Apple-conver=
ted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></font></li></ul>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 72pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Endpoint Desc=
riptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and value that are used t=
o partially identify the endpoint. The type of the Endpoint Descriptor may =
be a base networking identifier, such
 as an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single value,=
 a range of values, or a group of values.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce">&nbsp;</span></span></font></li></ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D""><font face=
=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"=
 class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 36pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Target. This =
is used by the application client to establish communications over the netw=
ork. A Target is mapped to a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/l=
ogical egress port.</span></font></li></ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt; padding-left: 36pt;" cla=
ss=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D=
"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 36pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Policy Rule S=
et. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the traffic between a pair o=
f Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy Rule Set consists of one or more=
 Policy Rules.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></f=
ont></li></ul>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 72pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Policy Rule. =
A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set of Actions to be appli=
ed to the traffic.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span=
></font></li></ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt; padding-left: 72pt;" cla=
ss=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D=
"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 36pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Policy Contex=
t. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expres=
sed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></font></li></ul>
<div style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt; padding-left: 36pt;" cla=
ss=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D=
"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div>
<ul style=3D"margin: 0px; padding-left: 36pt;" class=3D"">
<font face=3D"Book Antiqua" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;" class=3D"">
<li style=3D"margin-top: 4pt; margin-bottom: 4pt;" class=3D"">Policy Action=
. This is the action applied to the traffic that matches the classifier. An=
 action may be a simple ACL action (i.e. allow, deny, mirroring), applying =
a well known statistics functions (e.g.
 X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified functions (with=
 URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a s=
ervice chain).</span></font></li></ul>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">Comments are greatly appreciated.<span class=3D"Apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">Linda<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></d=
iv>
<div class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">
From: Loa Andersson [<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu" class=3D"">mailto:loa@pi.=
nu</a>]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM<br class=3D"">
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar<br class=3D"">
Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:i2n=
sf@ietf.org" class=3D"">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?</div>
<div class=3D""><font face=3D"Times New Roman" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">Linda and Diego,</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stac=
k or the Group Based Policy.</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the sam=
e book.</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">If we want to use&nbsp; OpenStack's Group Based Policy to d=
escribe I2NSF Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much be=
tter.</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?<=
/div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">/Loa</div>
<div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"">On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Hi Linda,</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; I am not completely sure that the current networking m=
odel of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (eith=
er the PTG and<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; the Target</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; itself) does cover all the potential semantics for gen=
eral security<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifi=
er, as they seem<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; very much associated with a particular implementation =
model and, what<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; is more, with a limited network model.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Be goode,</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" class=3D"">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a><=
/div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" cla=
ss=3D"">mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; I2NSF participants,</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-inte=
rface" class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capabili=
ty-interface</a></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability l=
ayer rules.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people=
 think of using<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; OpenStack=92s Group Policy structure ?</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) struct=
ure, the I2NSF<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy=
 Target Group (PTG).<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></di=
v>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; This is a group of Targets to which a traffic poli=
cy can be applied.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client =
virtual Subnet<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with =
public address<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; families, or any combination of them with logical =
operators (Logical<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Pol=
icy Rule Sets that<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; it consumes or provides.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; =B7Target. This is used by the application client =
to establish<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; communications over the network. A Target is mappe=
d to a single<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or =
a physical/logical<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; egress port.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to d=
etermine how the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be t=
reated. A Policy<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.</di=
v>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffi=
c Classifier and a<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describ=
es the traffic to<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expres=
sed as a direction,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div=
>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to th=
e traffic that<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; matches the classifier. An action may be a simple =
ACL action (i.e.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known sta=
tistics functions<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying cl=
ient specified<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an =
ordered sequence of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div=
>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; functions (i.e., a service chain).</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based=
 Policies, please<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; let the group know.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; Thanks, Linda</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt; I2nsf mailing list</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org" class=3D"">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.or=
g" class=3D"">mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-s=
pace">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" class=3D"">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; --</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; &quot;Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno&quot;</d=
iv>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Dr Diego R. Lopez</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Telefonica I&#43;D</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a h=
ref=3D"http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/" class=3D"">http://people.tid.es/d=
iego.lopez/</a></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; e-mail:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com" class=3D"">diego.r.lope=
z@telefonica.com</a></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Tel:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;34 913 129 041</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Mobile: &#43;34 682 051 091</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; ----------------------------------</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; ------------------------------------------------------=
----------------</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; --</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente =
a su<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; destinatario, puede contener informaci=F3n privilegiad=
a o confidencial y<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de desti=
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<div class=3D"">&gt; prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha=
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<div class=3D"">&gt; mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inm=
ediatamente por<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; The information contained in this transmission is priv=
ileged and<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; confidential information intended only for the use of =
the individual<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; or entity named above. If the reader of this message i=
s not the<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
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issemination,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; distribution or copying of this communication is stric=
tly prohibited.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; If you have received this transmission in error, do no=
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<div class=3D"">&gt; Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente =
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<div class=3D"">&gt; destinat=E1rio, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiad=
a ou confidencial e =E9<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><=
/div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. S=
e n=E3o =E9 vossa<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; senhoria o destinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de=
 que a leitura,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autori=
za=E7=E3o pode estar proibida<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</=
span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta =
mensagem por erro,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta=
 mesma via e<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; _______________________________________________</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt; I2nsf mailing list</div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org" class=3D"">I2nsf@ietf.org</a></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a h=
ref=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" class=3D"">https://www.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a></div>
<div class=3D"">&gt;</div>
</span></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div apple-content-edited=3D"true" class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; t=
ext-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norm=
al; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-w=
rap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-=
space;" class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">
&quot;Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno&quot;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Dr Diego R. Lopez<br class=3D"">
Telefonica I&#43;D<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/" class=3D"">http://people.tid.=
es/diego.lopez/</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<br class=3D"">
Tel: &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;34 913 129 041<br class=3D"">
Mobile: &#43;34 682 051 091<br class=3D"">
----------------------------------</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<br>
<hr>
<font face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray" size=3D"1"><br>
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icado, queda notificado de que la
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isma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.<br>
<br>
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al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named =
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ode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta me=
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Diego: Thank you very much for relaying Aldo's comments. That is very usefu=
l.


Aldo: Can you suggest some references for the "Security Management"?


Bear in mind that I2NSF is not to tackle the general policies (which belong=
s to SUPA WG).
I2NSF is to open a hole for clients/applications to inform to Flow-based NS=
Fs to inform them the rules for treating traffic traversing through.

Using PCIM (RFC3060 which the ITU-T X.1036 was based on) as a basis would b=
e a good idea. However, RFC3060 was created for general network policies fo=
r Directory Enabled Network, in some aspects more than what I2NSF needs, an=
d in other aspects needs extension. Especially need extension on the Policy=
 Context (i.e. the directions, the time, and other contextual events that g=
overns the policies to NSFs). E.g.

[cid:image001.png@01D10025.B160DC00]



From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 6:07 AM
To: Linda Dunbar
Cc: Loa Andersson; Aldo Basile; i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?

Hi Linda,

I have been talking about this with one of the policy experts in the SECURE=
D project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can identify him, thou=
gh he is in the I2NSF list as well...) and these are his comments:

8<-

In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet generic =
way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very similar.
It is network management rather then security management. You can express s=
imple network policies (commands) and associate to network nodes and groups=
.

GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.
Something is general (like the definition of rules as (classifier,action)) =
but it requires several extensions that, in the end, when completed will le=
ad to PCIM or SG17-like models.

Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting point, and a=
lso easier to push SECURED results.

"Policy Classifier" is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (as networ=
king people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is something mor=
e intelligent).

Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very limited sub=
set of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet filters). However, the mo=
del (condition,action) is general enough to cope with future needs (by addi=
ng more classifiers).

There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no easy link t=
o NSF categorization for interoperability).

Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities, no other=
 sophisticated ways to express policies.

8<-

I'll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my position is that =
we should consider an existing general framework as starting point, and tha=
t PCIM (see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy) is the most promising one=
.

Be goode,



On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com<mailto:lind=
a.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:

Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.

Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:

Pros:
=B7        There are running codes (open sourced code)

Cons:
=B7        The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port ori=
ented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not based on O=
penStack Neutron.
=B7        They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on =
how to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not complete, =
 a lot more need to be added.
=B7        There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy=
, which are quite different from the OpenStack's Group Based Policy.
=B7        May cause confusion in industry if calling "Group Based Policy" =
for I2NSF Service Layer


However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover what i=
s needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flows c=
an be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And they can be mapped to=
 the Capability layer's Subject-Object-Action-Function" paradigm.

To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term "Group b=
ased policy" (but inherent their concept only).

For example, "group" can be represented by "Composite Endpoints/Targets" or=
 Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where an "Endpoint" can be a =
subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.


=B7        Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint descri=
ptor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.

=B7        Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type a=
nd value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of the =
Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as an IP addr=
ess, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single value, a range of va=
lues, or a group of values.

=B7        Target. This is used by the application client to establish comm=
unications over the network. A Target is mapped to a physical/logical ingre=
ss port, or a physical/logical egress port.

=B7        Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the =
traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy Rule Set=
 consists of one or more Policy Rules.
=B7        Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a se=
t of Actions to be applied to the traffic.

=B7        Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to =
be applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time range,=
 and a protocol.

=B7        Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that ma=
tches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e. allow, den=
y, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions (e.g. X minutes c=
ount, Y hours court), applying client specified functions (with URL provide=
d), or may refer to an ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chain=
).

Comments are greatly appreciated.

Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?

Linda and Diego,

This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the Group B=
ased Policy.

I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.

If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service=
 Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.

What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?

/Loa

On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
> Hi Linda,
>
> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
> OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and
> the Target
> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they seem
> very much associated with a particular implementation model and, what
> is more, with a limited network model.
>
> Be goode,
>
>
>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com<mailto:l=
inda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I2NSF participants,
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>> OpenStack's Group Policy structure ?
>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>> simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group (PTG).
>> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied.
>> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical
>> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that
>> it consumes or provides.
>> =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
>> egress port.
>> =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>> =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a
>> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>> =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction,
>> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>> =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of
>> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please
>> let the group know.
>> Thanks, Linda
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su
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> utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar
> prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este
> mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por
> esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.
>
> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual
> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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> Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this
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 =E9
> para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa
> senhoria o destinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura,
> utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode esta=
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>

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com<mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------


________________________________

Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu=
ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus=
ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind=
icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o=
 copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=
=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo =
comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti=
al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named =
above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are=
 hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this co=
mmunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission =
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Diego: Thank you very muc=
h for relaying Aldo&#8217;s comments. That is very useful.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Aldo: Can you suggest som=
e references for the &#8220;Security Management&#8221;?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Bear in mind that I2NSF i=
s not to tackle the general policies (which belongs to SUPA WG).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I2NSF is to open a hole f=
or clients/applications to inform to Flow-based NSFs to inform them the rul=
es for treating traffic traversing through.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Using PCIM (RFC3060 which=
 the ITU-T X.1036 was based on) as a basis would be a good idea. However, R=
FC3060 was created for general network policies for Directory
 Enabled Network, in some aspects more than what I2NSF needs, and in other =
aspects needs extension. Especially need extension on the Policy Context (i=
.e. the directions, the time, and other contextual events that governs the =
policies to NSFs). E.g.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><img width=3D"580" height=
=3D"511" id=3D"Object_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.png@01D10025.B160DC00"><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> DIEGO LO=
PEZ GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 06, 2015 6:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Loa Andersson; Aldo Basile; i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's G=
roup Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have been talking about this with one of the polic=
y experts in the SECURED project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you=
 can identify him, though he is in the I2NSF list as well&#8230;) and these=
 are his comments:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">8&lt;&#8212;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Monaco&quot;,&quot;=
serif&quot;">In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified=
 yet generic way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very simil=
ar.<br>
It is network management rather then security management. You can express s=
imple network policies (commands) and associate to network nodes and groups=
.<br>
<br>
GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.<br>
Something is general (like the definition of rules as (classifier,action)) =
but it requires several extensions that, in the end, when completed will le=
ad to PCIM or SG17-like models.<br>
<br>
Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting point, and a=
lso easier to push SECURED results.<br>
<br>
&quot;Policy Classifier&quot; is another way to tell 'matching conditions' =
(as networking people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is som=
ething more intelligent).<br>
<br>
Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very limited sub=
set of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet filters). However, the mo=
del (condition,action) is general enough to cope with future needs (by addi=
ng more classifiers).<br>
<br>
There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no easy link t=
o NSF categorization for interoperability).<br>
<br>
Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities, no other=
 sophisticated ways to express policies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">8&lt;&#8212;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;ll let Aldo to express his views in more det=
ail, but my position is that we should consider an existing general framewo=
rk as starting point, and that PCIM (see
<a href=3D"http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy">http://www.dmtf.org/standa=
rds/policy</a>) is the most promising one.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Be goode,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.<span class=3D"apple-converted-s=
pace">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Pros:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
Consolas">There are running codes (open sourced code)<span class=3D"apple-c=
onverted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Cons:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
Consolas">The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port orie=
nted. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not based on Op=
enStack Neutron.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
Consolas">They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on h=
ow to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not complete,&n=
bsp; a lot more need to be added.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbs=
p;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
Consolas">There are other &quot;Group Based Policy&quot;, e.g. Window's Gro=
up Policy, which are quite different from the OpenStack&#8217;s Group Based=
 Policy.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
Consolas">May cause confusion in industry if calling &#8220;Group Based Pol=
icy&#8221; for I2NSF Service Layer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover what=
 is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flows=
 can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs
 in networks. And they can be mapped to the Capability layer&#8217;s Subjec=
t-Object-Action-Function&#8221; paradigm.<span class=3D"apple-converted-spa=
ce">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term &#8220=
;Group based policy&#8221; (but inherent their concept only).<span class=3D=
"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">For example, &#8220;group&#8221; can be represented by &#8220;Composite E=
ndpoints/Targets&#8221; or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), whe=
re an &#8220;Endpoint&#8221; can be a subnet, a set of hosts or application=
s,
 etc.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l5 level1 lf=
o3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logic=
al combination of endpoint descriptor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, =
set of hosts, or applications.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l7 level1 lf=
o4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each=
 endpoint descriptor has a type and value that are used to partially identi=
fy the endpoint. The type of the Endpoint Descriptor may
 be a base networking identifier, such as an IP address, or a user-defined =
type. The value may be a single value, a range of values, or a group of val=
ues.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4.0pt;margin-bottom:4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lf=
o5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Target. This is used by the app=
lication client to establish communications over the network. A Target is m=
apped to a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
 egress port.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4.0pt;margin-bottom:4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lf=
o6">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule =
Set is used to determine how the traffic between a pair of Target Groups is=
 to be treated. A Policy Rule Set consists of one or more
 Policy Rules.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l4 level1 lf=
o7">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Policy Rule. A Policy Rule cons=
ists of a Policy context and a set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4.0pt;margin-bottom:4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lf=
o8">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Policy Context. Context that de=
scribes when a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction=
, a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.<span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"margin-top:4.0pt;margin-bottom:4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;m=
argin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l8 level1 lf=
o9">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Policy Action. This is the acti=
on applied to the traffic that matches the classifier. An action may be a s=
imple ACL action (i.e. allow, deny, mirroring), applying
 a well known statistics functions (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), a=
pplying client specified functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an =
ordered sequence of functions (i.e., a service chain).</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Comments are greatly appreciated.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Linda<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Loa Andersson [<a href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.nu">mailto:loa@pi.nu</a>]<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM<br>
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar<br>
Cc:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:i2n=
sf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">Linda and Diego,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the Group=
 Based Policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">If we want to use&nbsp; OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF =
Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">/Loa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Hi Linda,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; I am not completely sure that the current networking model of<span c=
lass=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; the Target<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security<=
span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they se=
em<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; very much associated with a particular implementation model and, wha=
t<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; is more, with a limited network model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Be goode,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lin=
da.dunbar@huawei.com">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com">mailto:linda.dunb=
ar@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; I2NSF participants,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface</a><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of usin=
g<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; OpenStack&#8217;s Group Policy structure ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group =
(PTG).<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be appl=
ied.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Log=
ical<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets =
that<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; it consumes or provides.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish<s=
pan class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single<=
span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/log=
ical<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; egress port.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how t=
he<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Poli=
cy<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier a=
nd a<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic=
 to<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direc=
tion,<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.=
e.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functi=
ons<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequen=
ce of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; functions (i.e., a service chain).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, ple=
ase<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; let the group know.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; Thanks, Linda<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt; I2nsf mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"=
>&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/i2nsf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; &quot;Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno&quot;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Dr Diego R. Lopez<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Telefonica I&#43;D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://=
people.tid.es/diego.lopez/">http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/</a><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; e-mail:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D=
"mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com">diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Tel:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;34 913 129 041<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Mobile: &#43;34 682 051 091<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; ----------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su<span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; destinatario, puede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidenci=
al y<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es<s=
pan class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura,=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede esta=
r<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
">&gt; mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente po=
r<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">--<br>
&quot;Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno&quot;<br>
<br>
Dr Diego R. Lopez<br>
Telefonica I&#43;D<br>
<a href=3D"http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/">http://people.tid.es/diego.lo=
pez/</a><br>
<br>
e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com">diego.r.lopez@telef=
onica.com</a><br>
Tel: &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;34 913 129 041<br>
Mobile: &#43;34 682 051 091<br>
----------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu=
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ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind=
icado, queda notificado de que la
 lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede e=
star prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este m=
ensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta m=
isma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.<br>
<br>
The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti=
al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named =
above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are=
 hereby notified that any dissemination,
 distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If y=
ou have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immedia=
tely reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error=
 and then delete it.<br>
<br>
Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio=
, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex=
clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des=
tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a
 leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o p=
ode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta me=
nsagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mes=
ma via e proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Loa,=20

The "Composite Endpoint" in the context includes the group of hosts used by=
 RFC1122/1123/5505, group of applications, types of applications, user defi=
ned types, or specific client traffic.=20

Agree with you that the terminology "End point" (taken from one of the prop=
osals to OpenStack) doesn't represent the concept well. Do you have better =
suggestions?=20

Linda=20


-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 3:57 AM
To: Linda Dunbar; DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?

Linda,

How different is "endpoint" from "host" as it used in RFC 1122, RFC 1123 an=
d RFC 5505?

/Loa

On 2015-10-06 05:45, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
> Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:
> Pros:
>
>   * There are running codes (open sourced code)
>
> Cons:
>
>   * The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>     oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not
>     based on OpenStack Neutron.
>   * They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on how
>     to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>     complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>   * There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy,
>     which are quite different from the OpenStack's Group Based Policy.
>   * May cause confusion in industry if calling "Group Based Policy" for
>     I2NSF Service Layer
>
> However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover=20
> what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how=20
> their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And=20
> they can be mapped to the Capability layer's Subject-Object-Action-Functi=
on"
> paradigm.
> To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term=20
> "Group based policy" (but inherent their concept only).
> For example, "group" can be represented by "Composite Endpoints/Targets"
> or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where an "Endpoint"=20
> can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.
>
>   * Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint descriptor
>     IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.
>
>   * Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and
>     value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of
>     the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as
>     an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>     value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>
>   * Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>     communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>     physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>
>   * Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>     traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>     Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>   * Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set of
>     Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>   * Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be
>     applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>     range, and a protocol.
>
>   * Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>     matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>     allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>     (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>     functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>     of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
> Comments are greatly appreciated.
> Linda
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
> To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's=20
> Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
> Linda and Diego,
> This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the=20
> Group Based Policy.
> I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
> If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF=20
> Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
> What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
> /Loa
> On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>> Hi Linda,
>>
>> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of=20
>> OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and=20
>> the Target
>> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security=20
>> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they=20
>> seem very much associated with a particular implementation model and,=20
>> what is more, with a limited network model.
>>
>> Be goode,
>>
>>
>>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com=20
>>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I2NSF participants,
>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>>> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using =20
>>>OpenStack's Group Policy structure ?
>>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF =20
>>>simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group (PTG).
>>> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied.
>>> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet =20
>>>(i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address =20
>>>families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical =20
>>>AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that =20
>>>it consumes or provides.
>>> =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish =20
>>>communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single =20
>>>Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical =20
>>>egress port.
>>> =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the =20
>>>traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy =20
>>>Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>>> =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a =20
>>>set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>>> =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to =20
>>>which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction, =20
>>>a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>>> =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that =20
>>>matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>>> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions =20
>>>(e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified =20
>>>functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of =20
>>>functions (i.e., a service chain).
>>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please =20
>>>let the group know.
>>> Thanks, Linda
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>=20
>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>> --
>> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>>
>> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>> Telefonica I+D
>>http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>>
>> e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com=
>
>> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>> ----------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> --
>>
>> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su=20
>> destinatario, puede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial=20
>> y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es=20
>> usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura,=20
>> utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar=20
>> prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este=20
>> mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por=20
>> esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.
>>
>> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and=20
>> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual=20
>> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the=20
>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,=20
>> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>> If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
>> Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this=20
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>>
>> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu=20
>> destinat=E1rio, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial =
e =E9=20
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>> rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e=20
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>=20
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>

_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


From nobody Tue Oct  6 09:29:00 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 94 - I2NSF Meeting slot request
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Hi,

We will have our first I2NSF WG meeting at IETF 94 (Yokohama).

As per the preliminary agenda, I2NSF WG is scheduled to meet on Tue (Nov 3)=
 0900-1130 Morning Session in Room 302.

This email is to solicit slot requests to present in the WG session.
Please provide=20

* Name of the draft
* Short description of why you think the item needs to be discussed in the =
meeting


Kindly note that, priority will be given to Requests related to the WG char=
tered items.

Please do reply to this email with your requests.

cheers
-Linda and Adrian
_______________________________________________


From nobody Tue Oct  6 11:20:21 2015
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D66494@dfweml701-chm> <64E8BEC6-2EAC-41AF-9C72-9CBFF4A1D228@telefonica.com> <560E137C.7030707@pi.nu> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D676D7@dfweml701-chm> <56138CCF.6020006@pi.nu> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D67E79@dfweml701-chm>
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Linda,

While I understand (somewhat) where you are going e.g. with group of
applications, types of applications, etc. The fact that those
applications or functions may reside in one or more "hosts" seem to
have very small impact on the model. If they are end-points they are
hosts, right?

We were over all that in the L2VPN work, maybe time to re-read.

/Loa

On 2015-10-07 00:10, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Loa,
>
> The "Composite Endpoint" in the context includes the group of hosts used by RFC1122/1123/5505, group of applications, types of applications, user defined types, or specific client traffic.
>
> Agree with you that the terminology "End point" (taken from one of the proposals to OpenStack) doesn't represent the concept well. Do you have better suggestions?
>
> Linda
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 3:57 AM
> To: Linda Dunbar; DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
> Linda,
>
> How different is "endpoint" from "host" as it used in RFC 1122, RFC 1123 and RFC 5505?
>
> /Loa
>
> On 2015-10-06 05:45, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>> Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
>> Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:
>> Pros:
>>
>>    * There are running codes (open sourced code)
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>>    * The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>>      oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not
>>      based on OpenStack Neutron.
>>    * They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on how
>>      to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>>      complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>>    * There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy,
>>      which are quite different from the OpenStack's Group Based Policy.
>>    * May cause confusion in industry if calling "Group Based Policy" for
>>      I2NSF Service Layer
>>
>> However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover
>> what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how
>> their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And
>> they can be mapped to the Capability layer's Subject-Object-Action-Function"
>> paradigm.
>> To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term
>> "Group based policy" (but inherent their concept only).
>> For example, "group" can be represented by "Composite Endpoints/Targets"
>> or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language), where an "Endpoint"
>> can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applications, etc.
>>
>>    * Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint descriptor
>>      IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or applications.
>>
>>    * Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and
>>      value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of
>>      the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as
>>      an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>>      value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>>
>>    * Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>>      communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>>      physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>>
>>    * Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>>      traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>>      Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>>
>>    * Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set of
>>      Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>>
>>    * Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be
>>      applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>>      range, and a protocol.
>>
>>    * Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>>      matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>>      allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>>      (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>>      functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>>      of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>>
>> Comments are greatly appreciated.
>> Linda
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
>> To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
>> Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>> Linda and Diego,
>> This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the
>> Group Based Policy.
>> I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
>> If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF
>> Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
>> What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
>> /Loa
>> On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>>> Hi Linda,
>>>
>>> I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
>>> OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG and
>>> the Target
>>> itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
>>> functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they
>>> seem very much associated with a particular implementation model and,
>>> what is more, with a limited network model.
>>>
>>> Be goode,
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>>>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I2NSF participants,
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>>>> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>>>> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>>>> OpenStack's Group Policy structure ?
>>>> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>>>> simple service layer can be expressed as ·Policy Target Group (PTG).
>>>> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applied.
>>>> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>>>> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>>>> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logical
>>>> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets that
>>>> it consumes or provides.
>>>> ·Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>>>> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>>>> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical
>>>> egress port.
>>>> ·Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>>>> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>>>> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>>>> ·Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a
>>>> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>>>> ·Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>>>> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direction,
>>>> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>>>> ·Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>>>> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>>>> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>>>> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>>>> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence of
>>>> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>>>> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, please
>>>> let the group know.
>>>> Thanks, Linda
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>>> I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>>>
>>> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>>> Telefonica I+D
>>> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>>>
>>> e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
>>> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>>> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>>> ----------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> --
>>>
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>>> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>> If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
>>> Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this
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From: Youjianjie <youjianjie@huawei.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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From: Youjianjie <youjianjie@huawei.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 94 - I2NSF Meeting slot request
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From nobody Thu Oct  8 00:27:21 2015
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From: "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12AE8B8BCSZXEMA502MBSchi_--


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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D66494@dfweml701-chm> <64E8BEC6-2EAC-41AF-9C72-9CBFF4A1D228@telefonica.com> <560E137C.7030707@pi.nu> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D676D7@dfweml701-chm> <B984884E-8588-4F18-A2C5-21865BF7EA36@telefonica.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D67E42@dfweml701-chm>
From: Aldo Basile <cataldo.basile@polito.it>
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Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Dear Linda,

first of all sorry for the very late reply, and thanks Diego for=20
introducing me (and presenting me as a 'policy expert').

I admit there is not a lot of good literature on Security Management (I=20
assume Policy-based Security Management or Policy-Based Network Security =

Management, which is a relatively narrow field). I'm listing here some=20
works but I'm sure you already know all of them.

1) Most of the works start from the Strassner definition of Policy-based =

Network Management (PBNM). Strassner introduced the idea of 'policy=20
continuum' and developed the DEN-ng architecture.

Here a set of links to Strassner's papers:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=3D10.1.1.495.4361&rep=3D=
rep1&type=3Dpdf
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=3D&arnumber=3D1015622&url=3Dh=
ttp%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D1015622=


He also published a book (which I didn't read):
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=3D1206794

2) Then, I know this work from an IBM fellow that tries to map and=20
organize PBNM concepts on the security field
http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/people/d/dverma/papers/NetMgmtPolicy.pd=
f

3) Then there are the RFC3198 and the PCIM series (RFC 3060, now RFC 3460=
).


No recent works though. Apparently, this research field has moved from=20
academia to industry.

Please let me know if you further details or if I didn't interpret=20
correctly the "Security Management" field.

Regards,
Aldo

On 06/10/2015 17:56, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Diego: Thank you very much for relaying Aldo=92s comments. That is very=

> useful.
>
> Aldo: Can you suggest some references for the =93Security Management=94=
?
>
> Bear in mind that I2NSF is not to tackle the general policies (which
> belongs to SUPA WG).
>
> I2NSF is to open a hole for clients/applications to inform to Flow-base=
d
> NSFs to inform them the rules for treating traffic traversing through.
>
> Using PCIM (RFC3060 which the ITU-T X.1036 was based on) as a basis
> would be a good idea. However, RFC3060 was created for general network
> policies for Directory Enabled Network, in some aspects more than what
> I2NSF needs, and in other aspects needs extension. Especially need
> extension on the Policy Context (i.e. the directions, the time, and
> other contextual events that governs the policies to NSFs). E.g.
>
> *From:*DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 06, 2015 6:07 AM
> *To:* Linda Dunbar
> *Cc:* Loa Andersson; Aldo Basile; i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
> Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
> Hi Linda,
>
> I have been talking about this with one of the policy experts in the
> SECURED project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can identify=

> him, though he is in the I2NSF list as well=85) and these are his comme=
nts:
>
> 8<=97
>
>     In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet
>     generic way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very
>     similar.
>     It is network management rather then security management. You can
>     express simple network policies (commands) and associate to network=

>     nodes and groups.
>
>     GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.
>     Something is general (like the definition of rules as
>     (classifier,action)) but it requires several extensions that, in th=
e
>     end, when completed will lead to PCIM or SG17-like models.
>
>     Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting
>     point, and also easier to push SECURED results.
>
>     "Policy Classifier" is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (a=
s
>     networking people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is=

>     something more intelligent).
>
>     Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very
>     limited subset of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet
>     filters). However, the model (condition,action) is general enough t=
o
>     cope with future needs (by adding more classifiers).
>
>     There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no eas=
y
>     link to NSF categorization for interoperability).
>
>     Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities,
>     no other sophisticated ways to express policies.
>
> 8<=97
>
> I=92ll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my position is=

> that we should consider an existing general framework as starting point=
,
> and that PCIM (see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy) is the most
> promising one.
>
> Be goode,
>
>     On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>     <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
>
>     Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:=

>
>     Pros:
>
>     =B7There are running codes (open sourced code)
>
>     Cons:
>
>     =B7The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>     oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not=

>     based on OpenStack Neutron.
>
>     =B7They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on =
how
>     to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>     complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>
>     =B7There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy=
,
>     which are quite different from the OpenStack=92s Group Based Policy=
=2E
>
>     =B7May cause confusion in industry if calling =93Group Based Policy=
=94 for
>     I2NSF Service Layer
>
>     However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cove=
r
>     what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how=

>     their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And
>     they can be mapped to the Capability layer=92s
>     Subject-Object-Action-Function=94 paradigm.
>
>     To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term
>     =93Group based policy=94 (but inherent their concept only).
>
>     For example, =93group=94 can be represented by =93Composite
>     Endpoints/Targets=94 or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language)=
,
>     where an =93Endpoint=94 can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applicat=
ions,
>     etc.
>
>     =B7Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint
>     descriptor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or
>     applications.
>
>     =B7Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type a=
nd
>     value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of=

>     the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such a=
s
>     an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>     value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>
>     =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>     communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>     physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>
>     =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>     traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>     Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>     =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a se=
t
>     of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>     =B7Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to =
be
>     applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>     range, and a protocol.
>
>     =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>     matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>     allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions=

>     (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>     functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>     of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
>     Comments are greatly appreciated.
>
>     Linda
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>     Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
>     To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
>     Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>     Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
>     Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
>     Linda and Diego,
>
>     This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the=

>     Group Based Policy.
>
>     I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
>
>     If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF=

>     Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
>
>     What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
>
>     /Loa
>
>     On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>
>     > Hi Linda,
>
>     >
>
>     > I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
>
>     > OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG =
and
>
>     > the Target
>
>     > itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general securi=
ty
>
>     > functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they=
 seem
>
>     > very much associated with a particular implementation model and, =
what
>
>     > is more, with a limited network model.
>
>     >
>
>     > Be goode,
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     >> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>
>     >> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     >>
>
>     >> I2NSF participants,
>
>     >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-inter=
face
>
>     >> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>
>     >> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of usin=
g
>
>     >> OpenStack=92s Group Policy structure ?
>
>     >> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF=

>
>     >> simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group =
(PTG).
>
>     >> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be appl=
ied.
>
>     >> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet=

>
>     >> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address=

>
>     >> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Log=
ical
>
>     >> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets =
that
>
>     >> it consumes or provides.
>
>     >> =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>
>     >> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>
>     >> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/log=
ical
>
>     >> egress port.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how t=
he
>
>     >> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Poli=
cy
>
>     >> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier a=
nd a
>
>     >> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic=
 to
>
>     >> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direc=
tion,
>
>     >> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that=

>
>     >> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.=
e.
>
>     >> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functi=
ons
>
>     >> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified=

>
>     >> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequen=
ce of
>
>     >> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
>     >> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, ple=
ase
>
>     >> let the group know.
>
>     >> Thanks, Linda
>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>
>     >> I2nsf mailing list
>
>     >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org><mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>     >
>
>     > --
>
>     > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
>     >
>
>     > Dr Diego R. Lopez
>
>     > Telefonica I+D
>
>     >http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
>     >
>
>     > e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefon=
ica.com>
>
>     > Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>
>     > Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>
>     > ----------------------------------
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > -----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>
>     > --
>
>     >
>
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Dear all,

my 2 cents... in a long boring email...

I agree on the Frank Xialiang comment on the need for a clear=20
specification of the semantics. However, semantics must is a meta-layer=20
built on the syntax.

In my opinion, PCIM is more than enough to express the syntax of network =

level policies (while it is not flexible enough for general policies).=20
So PCIM can be a valid starting point. Moreover, on paper, PCIM has been =

designed also to cope with event-based architectures, which are often=20
needed for sophisticated management.

After several analyses, I pushed to adopt it in three of the projects=20
where I worked and in the end we were satisfied by its flexibility and=20
expressiveness.

There is one more thing to consider, as PCIM is part of CIM, it is=20
possible to borrow, from that incredibly huge framework, classes and=20
associations to describe NSFs and their parts (extensions will be=20
certainly needed, but all network components are almost there).
As far as I remember, the CIM parts about virtualization are not mature=20
enough (I checked a couple of years ago). Thus, in a previous project=20
we decided to borrow concepts from libvirt.
[I don't know if this can be interesting to I2NSF, I imagine it is a=20
completely different scenario]

Unfortunately, PCIM is not perfect and in my opinion it has some=20
inconsistency, probably due to difficulties in reconciling the needs=20
from different vendors (my favourite example is the introduction of the=20
FilterEntry/FilterList classes).

---
After having read (guess) all the I2NSF-related drafts, I like the idea=20
of using a Subject-Object-Function-Action paradigm to add the needed=20
semantics (draft-lopez-i2nsf-packet-00).

Because, in the end (but correct me if I'm wrong), some of the core=20
problems I2NSF wants to address are:
1) determining what an NSF can do for implementing my security=20
requirements, and
2) generating a configuration that NSFs can properly consume.
"Software interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring=20
aspects of physical and virtual NSFs" could be built on top of the=20
results to achieve these two points.

Thus, in my understanding,
- an Action determines what an NSFs can do for me (in a packets-based=20
paradigm)
- Subjects (which are named 'Match' in the Xie draft) are in my=20
understanding stateless conditions (available in the rules to select the =

packets to which actions apply).
- Objects are stateful conditions (at all ISO/OSI stack layers)
- Functions are NSF specific properties. I'm not sure how Functions=20
relate to Subjects, Objects, and Actions (if they may be one of the=20
three aspects or a separate concepts). In case Functions may also be

All these concepts can be mapped (with limited effort) on PCIM.=20
PolicyVariables can be associated to functionality to characterize 'what =

an NSF can do for me', thus semantics and NSF identification with a sort =

of capability matching.

The same consideration applies to the Xie proposal=20
(draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface-im-02), the proposed "Overall=20
Information Model for I2NSF Capability Interface" seems to me easily=20
mappable on PCIM conditions and actions (again, with limited effort).

By following your discussions, I'll also try to better understand what=20
you exactly mean with "Context" and its relations to stateful conditions =

and their verification.
I don't remember (by heart, but I need to check) some standards to=20
describe this information. That is, I don't remember any other=20
(network-level) security standard/format/language properly covering=20
stateful data management and relations with packet matching.

As you noticed, I tend to write to much and I tend to invade spaces that =

are not mine with absolute judgments and suggestions. So, just take it=20
my personal opinion as I really don't want to affect any decision in=20
this working group.
I only hope I can be useful in providing you information, as I had to=20
deal with similar problems in the past.

Regards,
Aldo





On 08/10/2015 09:26, Xialiang (Frank) wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My understanding is that PCIM/SG17 is mainly related to the syntax of
> the information model, and is possible to be a starting point.
>
> In addition, the other important point we need to consider is the
> semantic aspects of the information model: which contents can be in the=

> security rule and in which way they are categorized and organized?
>
> There are many possible ways, such as: =E2=80=9C5W1H=E2=80=9D,
> =E2=80=9Csubject-object-action-function=E2=80=9D, hierarchical processi=
ng, or
> combination of them.
>
> Comments are greatly appreciated!
>
> B.R.
>
> Frank
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] *=E4=
=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2015=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5=
19:07
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Linda Dunbar
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*i2nsf@ietf.org; Aldo Basile; Loa Andersson
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using Open=
Stack's Group
> Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
> Hi Linda,
>
> I have been talking about this with one of the policy experts in the
> SECURED project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can identify=

> him, though he is in the I2NSF list as well=E2=80=A6) and these are his=
 comments:
>
> 8<=E2=80=94
>
>     In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet
>     generic way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very
>     similar.
>     It is network management rather then security management. You can
>     express simple network policies (commands) and associate to network=

>     nodes and groups.
>
>     GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.
>     Something is general (like the definition of rules as
>     (classifier,action)) but it requires several extensions that, in th=
e
>     end, when completed will lead to PCIM or SG17-like models.
>
>     Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting
>     point, and also easier to push SECURED results.
>
>     "Policy Classifier" is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (a=
s
>     networking people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is=

>     something more intelligent).
>
>     Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very
>     limited subset of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet
>     filters). However, the model (condition,action) is general enough t=
o
>     cope with future needs (by adding more classifiers).
>
>     There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no eas=
y
>     link to NSF categorization for interoperability).
>
>     Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities,
>     no other sophisticated ways to express policies.
>
> 8<=E2=80=94
>
> I=E2=80=99ll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my posit=
ion is
> that we should consider an existing general framework as starting point=
,
> and that PCIM (see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy) is the most
> promising one.
>
> Be goode,
>
>     On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>     <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
>
>     Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:=

>
>     Pros:
>
>     =C2=B7There are running codes (open sourced code)
>
>     Cons:
>
>     =C2=B7The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>     oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not=

>     based on OpenStack Neutron.
>
>     =C2=B7They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF =
on how
>     to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>     complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>
>     =C2=B7There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Pol=
icy,
>     which are quite different from the OpenStack=E2=80=99s Group Based =
Policy.
>
>     =C2=B7May cause confusion in industry if calling =E2=80=9CGroup Bas=
ed Policy=E2=80=9D for
>     I2NSF Service Layer
>
>     However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cove=
r
>     what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how=

>     their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And
>     they can be mapped to the Capability layer=E2=80=99s
>     Subject-Object-Action-Function=E2=80=9D paradigm.
>
>     To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term
>     =E2=80=9CGroup based policy=E2=80=9D (but inherent their concept on=
ly).
>
>     For example, =E2=80=9Cgroup=E2=80=9D can be represented by =E2=80=9C=
Composite
>     Endpoints/Targets=E2=80=9D or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA lan=
guage),
>     where an =E2=80=9CEndpoint=E2=80=9D can be a subnet, a set of hosts=
 or applications,
>     etc.
>
>     =C2=B7Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint
>     descriptor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or
>     applications.
>
>     =C2=B7Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a typ=
e and
>     value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of=

>     the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such a=
s
>     an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>     value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>
>     =C2=B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>     communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>     physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>
>     =C2=B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how t=
he
>     traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>     Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>     =C2=B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a=
 set
>     of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>     =C2=B7Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is =
to be
>     applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>     range, and a protocol.
>
>     =C2=B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that=

>     matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>     allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions=

>     (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>     functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>     of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
>     Comments are greatly appreciated.
>
>     Linda
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>     Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
>     To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
>     Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>     Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
>     Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
>     Linda and Diego,
>
>     This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the=

>     Group Based Policy.
>
>     I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
>
>     If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF=

>     Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
>
>     What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
>
>     /Loa
>
>     On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>
>     > Hi Linda,
>
>     >
>
>     > I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
>
>     > OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG =
and
>
>     > the Target
>
>     > itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general securi=
ty
>
>     > functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they=
 seem
>
>     > very much associated with a particular implementation model and, =
what
>
>     > is more, with a limited network model.
>
>     >
>
>     > Be goode,
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     >> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>
>     >> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     >>
>
>     >> I2NSF participants,
>
>     >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-inter=
face
>
>     >> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>
>     >> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of usin=
g
>
>     >> OpenStack=E2=80=99s Group Policy structure ?
>
>     >> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF=

>
>     >> simple service layer can be expressed as =C2=B7Policy Target Gro=
up (PTG).
>
>     >> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be appl=
ied.
>
>     >> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet=

>
>     >> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address=

>
>     >> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Log=
ical
>
>     >> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets =
that
>
>     >> it consumes or provides.
>
>     >> =C2=B7Target. This is used by the application client to establis=
h
>
>     >> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>
>     >> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/log=
ical
>
>     >> egress port.
>
>     >> =C2=B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine ho=
w the
>
>     >> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Poli=
cy
>
>     >> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>     >> =C2=B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifie=
r and a
>
>     >> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>     >> =C2=B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traf=
fic to
>
>     >> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a direc=
tion,
>
>     >> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>
>     >> =C2=B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic t=
hat
>
>     >> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.=
e.
>
>     >> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functi=
ons
>
>     >> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified=

>
>     >> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequen=
ce of
>
>     >> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
>     >> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, ple=
ase
>
>     >> let the group know.
>
>     >> Thanks, Linda
>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>
>     >> I2nsf mailing list
>
>     >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org><mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>     >
>
>     > --
>
>     > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
>     >
>
>     > Dr Diego R. Lopez
>
>     > Telefonica I+D
>
>     >http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
>     >
>
>     > e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefon=
ica.com>
>
>     > Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>
>     > Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>
>     > ----------------------------------
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > -----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>
>     > --
>
>     >
>
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>
>     > es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no e=
s
>
>     > usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectu=
ra,
>
>     > utilizaci=C3=B3n, divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3=
n puede estar
>
>     > prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha recibid=
o este
>
>     > mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente=
 por
>
>     > esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a su destrucci=C3=B3n.
>
>     >
>
>     > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
>
>     > confidential information intended only for the use of the individ=
ual
>
>     > or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the
>
>     > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disseminatio=
n,
>
>     > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibi=
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>
>     > If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
>
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>
>     > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
>
>     > destinat=C3=A1rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada =
ou confidencial e =C3=A9
>
>     > para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o =
=C3=A9 vossa
>
>     > senhoria o destinat=C3=A1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a l=
eitura,
>
>     > utiliza=C3=A7=C3=A3o, divulga=C3=A7=C3=A3o e/ou c=C3=B3pia sem au=
toriza=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode estar proibida
>
>     > em virtude da legisla=C3=A7=C3=A3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensa=
gem por erro,
>
>     > rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via =
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>
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>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > _______________________________________________
>
>     > I2nsf mailing list
>
>     >I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>     >
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.c=
om>
> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> ----------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>
>
> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario=
,
> puede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para u=
so
> exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el
> destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=C3=
=B3n,
> divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3n puede estar prohibida =
en virtud
> de la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, =
le
> rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=C3=ADa y p=
roceda
> a su destrucci=C3=B3n.
>
> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or=

> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution=

> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately=

> reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error
> and then delete it.
>
> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
> destinat=C3=A1rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou con=
fidencial e =C3=A9
> para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o =C3=A9=
 vossa
> senhoria o destinat=C3=A1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura=
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> utiliza=C3=A7=C3=A3o, divulga=C3=A7=C3=A3o e/ou c=C3=B3pia sem autoriza=
=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode estar proibida em
> virtude da legisla=C3=A7=C3=A3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por e=
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> rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e
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To: Aldo Basile <cataldo.basile@polito.it>, "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Aldo,

PCIM is a "in house product", right? SO if we have something that is
"more than enough" it is hard to why that should not be used.

/Loa

On 2015-10-08 23:17, Aldo Basile wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> my 2 cents... in a long boring email...
>
> I agree on the Frank Xialiang comment on the need for a clear
> specification of the semantics. However, semantics must is a meta-layer
> built on the syntax.
>
> In my opinion, PCIM is more than enough to express the syntax of network
> level policies (while it is not flexible enough for general policies).
> So PCIM can be a valid starting point. Moreover, on paper, PCIM has been
> designed also to cope with event-based architectures, which are often
> needed for sophisticated management.
>
> After several analyses, I pushed to adopt it in three of the projects
> where I worked and in the end we were satisfied by its flexibility and
> expressiveness.
>
> There is one more thing to consider, as PCIM is part of CIM, it is
> possible to borrow, from that incredibly huge framework, classes and
> associations to describe NSFs and their parts (extensions will be
> certainly needed, but all network components are almost there).
> As far as I remember, the CIM parts about virtualization are not mature
> enough (I checked a couple of years ago). Thus, in a previous project we
> decided to borrow concepts from libvirt.
> [I don't know if this can be interesting to I2NSF, I imagine it is a
> completely different scenario]
>
> Unfortunately, PCIM is not perfect and in my opinion it has some
> inconsistency, probably due to difficulties in reconciling the needs
> from different vendors (my favourite example is the introduction of the
> FilterEntry/FilterList classes).
>
> ---
> After having read (guess) all the I2NSF-related drafts, I like the idea
> of using a Subject-Object-Function-Action paradigm to add the needed
> semantics (draft-lopez-i2nsf-packet-00).
>
> Because, in the end (but correct me if I'm wrong), some of the core
> problems I2NSF wants to address are:
> 1) determining what an NSF can do for implementing my security
> requirements, and
> 2) generating a configuration that NSFs can properly consume.
> "Software interfaces and data models for controlling and monitoring
> aspects of physical and virtual NSFs" could be built on top of the
> results to achieve these two points.
>
> Thus, in my understanding,
> - an Action determines what an NSFs can do for me (in a packets-based
> paradigm)
> - Subjects (which are named 'Match' in the Xie draft) are in my
> understanding stateless conditions (available in the rules to select the
> packets to which actions apply).
> - Objects are stateful conditions (at all ISO/OSI stack layers)
> - Functions are NSF specific properties. I'm not sure how Functions
> relate to Subjects, Objects, and Actions (if they may be one of the
> three aspects or a separate concepts). In case Functions may also be
>
> All these concepts can be mapped (with limited effort) on PCIM.
> PolicyVariables can be associated to functionality to characterize 'what
> an NSF can do for me', thus semantics and NSF identification with a sort
> of capability matching.
>
> The same consideration applies to the Xie proposal
> (draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface-im-02), the proposed "Overall
> Information Model for I2NSF Capability Interface" seems to me easily
> mappable on PCIM conditions and actions (again, with limited effort).
>
> By following your discussions, I'll also try to better understand what
> you exactly mean with "Context" and its relations to stateful conditions
> and their verification.
> I don't remember (by heart, but I need to check) some standards to
> describe this information. That is, I don't remember any other
> (network-level) security standard/format/language properly covering
> stateful data management and relations with packet matching.
>
> As you noticed, I tend to write to much and I tend to invade spaces that
> are not mine with absolute judgments and suggestions. So, just take it
> my personal opinion as I really don't want to affect any decision in
> this working group.
> I only hope I can be useful in providing you information, as I had to
> deal with similar problems in the past.
>
> Regards,
> Aldo
>
>
>
>
>
> On 08/10/2015 09:26, Xialiang (Frank) wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My understanding is that PCIM/SG17 is mainly related to the syntax of
>> the information model, and is possible to be a starting point.
>>
>> In addition, the other important point we need to consider is the
>> semantic aspects of the information model: which contents can be in the
>> security rule and in which way they are categorized and organized?
>>
>> There are many possible ways, such as: â€œ5W1Hâ€�,
>> â€œsubject-object-action-functionâ€�, hierarchical processing, or
>> combination of them.
>>
>> Comments are greatly appreciated!
>>
>> B.R.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> *å�‘ä»¶äºº:*I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] *ä»£è¡¨ *DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
>> *å�‘é€�æ—¶é—´:*2015å¹´10æœˆ6æ—¥19:07
>> *æ”¶ä»¶äºº:*Linda Dunbar
>> *æŠ„é€�:*i2nsf@ietf.org; Aldo Basile; Loa Andersson
>> *ä¸»é¢˜:*Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group
>> Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>>
>> Hi Linda,
>>
>> I have been talking about this with one of the policy experts in the
>> SECURED project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can identify
>> him, though he is in the I2NSF list as wellâ€¦) and these are his comments:
>>
>> 8<â€”
>>
>>     In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet
>>     generic way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very
>>     similar.
>>     It is network management rather then security management. You can
>>     express simple network policies (commands) and associate to network
>>     nodes and groups.
>>
>>     GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.
>>     Something is general (like the definition of rules as
>>     (classifier,action)) but it requires several extensions that, in the
>>     end, when completed will lead to PCIM or SG17-like models.
>>
>>     Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting
>>     point, and also easier to push SECURED results.
>>
>>     "Policy Classifier" is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (as
>>     networking people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is
>>     something more intelligent).
>>
>>     Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very
>>     limited subset of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet
>>     filters). However, the model (condition,action) is general enough to
>>     cope with future needs (by adding more classifiers).
>>
>>     There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no easy
>>     link to NSF categorization for interoperability).
>>
>>     Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities,
>>     no other sophisticated ways to express policies.
>>
>> 8<â€”
>>
>> Iâ€™ll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my position is
>> that we should consider an existing general framework as starting point,
>> and that PCIM (see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy) is the most
>> promising one.
>>
>> Be goode,
>>
>>     On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>>     <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
>>
>>     Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:
>>
>>     Pros:
>>
>>     Â·There are running codes (open sourced code)
>>
>>     Cons:
>>
>>     Â·The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>>     oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not
>>     based on OpenStack Neutron.
>>
>>     Â·They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on how
>>     to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>>     complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>>
>>     Â·There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy,
>>     which are quite different from the OpenStackâ€™s Group Based Policy.
>>
>>     Â·May cause confusion in industry if calling â€œGroup Based Policyâ€� for
>>     I2NSF Service Layer
>>
>>     However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover
>>     what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how
>>     their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And
>>     they can be mapped to the Capability layerâ€™s
>>     Subject-Object-Action-Functionâ€� paradigm.
>>
>>     To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term
>>     â€œGroup based policyâ€� (but inherent their concept only).
>>
>>     For example, â€œgroupâ€� can be represented by â€œComposite
>>     Endpoints/Targetsâ€� or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language),
>>     where an â€œEndpointâ€� can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applications,
>>     etc.
>>
>>     Â·Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint
>>     descriptor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or
>>     applications.
>>
>>     Â·Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and
>>     value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of
>>     the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as
>>     an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>>     value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>>
>>     Â·Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>>     communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>>     physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>>
>>     Â·Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>>     traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>>     Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>>
>>     Â·Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set
>>     of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>>
>>     Â·Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be
>>     applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>>     range, and a protocol.
>>
>>     Â·Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>>     matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>>     allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>>     (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>>     functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>>     of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>>
>>     Comments are greatly appreciated.
>>
>>     Linda
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>>     Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
>>     To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
>>     Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>>     Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
>>     Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>>
>>     Linda and Diego,
>>
>>     This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the
>>     Group Based Policy.
>>
>>     I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
>>
>>     If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF
>>     Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
>>
>>     What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
>>
>>     /Loa
>>
>>     On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>>
>>     > Hi Linda,
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
>>
>>     > OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG
>> and
>>
>>     > the Target
>>
>>     > itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
>>
>>     > functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as
>> they seem
>>
>>     > very much associated with a particular implementation model and,
>> what
>>
>>     > is more, with a limited network model.
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > Be goode,
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     >> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>>
>>     >> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     >>
>>
>>     >> I2NSF participants,
>>
>>
>> >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface
>>
>>     >> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>>
>>     >> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>>
>>     >> OpenStackâ€™s Group Policy structure ?
>>
>>     >> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>>
>>     >> simple service layer can be expressed as Â·Policy Target Group
>> (PTG).
>>
>>     >> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be
>> applied.
>>
>>     >> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>>
>>     >> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>>
>>     >> families, or any combination of them with logical operators
>> (Logical
>>
>>     >> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets
>> that
>>
>>     >> it consumes or provides.
>>
>>     >> Â·Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>>
>>     >> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>>
>>     >> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a
>> physical/logical
>>
>>     >> egress port.
>>
>>     >> Â·Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>>
>>     >> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>>
>>     >> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>>
>>     >> Â·Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and a
>>
>>     >> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>>
>>     >> Â·Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic to
>>
>>     >> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a
>> direction,
>>
>>     >> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>>
>>     >> Â·Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>>
>>     >> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>>
>>     >> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics
>> functions
>>
>>     >> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>>
>>     >> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered
>> sequence of
>>
>>     >> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>>
>>     >> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies,
>> please
>>
>>     >> let the group know.
>>
>>     >> Thanks, Linda
>>
>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>
>>     >> I2nsf mailing list
>>
>>     >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org><mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>>
>>     >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > --
>>
>>     > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > Dr Diego R. Lopez
>>
>>     > Telefonica I+D
>>
>>     >http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
>> <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
>>
>>     > Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>>
>>     > Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>>
>>     > ----------------------------------
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     > --
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su
>>
>>     > destinatario, puede contener informaciÃ³n privilegiada o
>> confidencial y
>>
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>>
>>     > usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la
>> lectura,
>>
>>     > utilizaciÃ³n, divulgaciÃ³n y/o copia sin autorizaciÃ³n puede estar
>>
>>     > prohibida en virtud de la legislaciÃ³n vigente. Si ha recibido este
>>
>>     > mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique
>> inmediatamente por
>>
>>     > esta misma vÃ­a y proceda a su destrucciÃ³n.
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
>>
>>     > confidential information intended only for the use of the
>> individual
>>
>>     > or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the
>>
>>     > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>>
>>     > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
>> prohibited.
>>
>>     > If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
>>
>>     > Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this
>>
>>     > communication in error and then delete it.
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
>>
>>     > destinatÃ¡rio, pode conter informaÃ§Ã£o privilegiada ou
>> confidencial e Ã©
>>
>>     > para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se nÃ£o Ã© vossa
>>
>>     > senhoria o destinatÃ¡rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura,
>>
>>     > utilizaÃ§Ã£o, divulgaÃ§Ã£o e/ou cÃ³pia sem autorizaÃ§Ã£o pode estar
>> proibida
>>
>>     > em virtude da legislaÃ§Ã£o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por
>> erro,
>>
>>     > rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e
>>
>>     > proceda a sua destruiÃ§Ã£o
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     >
>>
>>     > _______________________________________________
>>
>>     > I2nsf mailing list
>>
>>     >I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>>
>>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>>     >
>>
>> --
>> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>>
>> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>> Telefonica I+D
>> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>>
>> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
>> <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
>> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>> ----------------------------------
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario,
>> puede contener informaciÃ³n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso
>> exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el
>> destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaciÃ³n,
>> divulgaciÃ³n y/o copia sin autorizaciÃ³n puede estar prohibida en virtud
>> de la legislaciÃ³n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le
>> rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vÃ­a y proceda
>> a su destrucciÃ³n.
>>
>> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
>> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
>> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
>> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately
>> reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error
>> and then delete it.
>>
>> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
>> destinatÃ¡rio, pode conter informaÃ§Ã£o privilegiada ou confidencial e Ã©
>> para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se nÃ£o Ã© vossa
>> senhoria o destinatÃ¡rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura,
>> utilizaÃ§Ã£o, divulgaÃ§Ã£o e/ou cÃ³pia sem autorizaÃ§Ã£o pode estar proibida em
>> virtude da legislaÃ§Ã£o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro,
>> rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e
>> proceda a sua destruiÃ§Ã£o
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>


From nobody Sat Oct 10 11:02:54 2015
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 03:02:50 +0900
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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Cc: Mahdi Daghmehchi <mdaghmechi@gmail.com>, Jinyong Kim <wlsdyd0930@nate.com>, Geumhwan David Cho <geumhwancho@gmail.com>, Myung-Ki Shin <mkshin@etri.re.kr>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>, "Prof. Hyoungshick Kim" <hyoung@skku.edu>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] IETF 94 - I2NSF Meeting slot request
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--001a114e474a8dbd750521c3e7fa
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Hi Linda,
Could I present the following draft in 5 minutes?

Software-Defined Networking Based Security Services using Interface to
Network Security Functions
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services-03)

This document describes a framework, objectives, requirements, and
use cases for security services based on Software-Defined Networking
(SDN) using a common Interface to Network Security Functions (I2NSF).

We would like to present how this work can complement other uses cases
in I2NSF and next steps along the milestone of I2NSF.

Thanks.

Paul

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> We will have our first I2NSF WG meeting at IETF 94 (Yokohama).
>
> As per the preliminary agenda, I2NSF WG is scheduled to meet on Tue (Nov
> 3) 0900-1130 Morning Session in Room 302.
>
> This email is to solicit slot requests to present in the WG session.
> Please provide
>
> * Name of the draft
> * Short description of why you think the item needs to be discussed in the
> meeting
>
>
> Kindly note that, priority will be given to Requests related to the WG
> chartered items.
>
> Please do reply to this email with your requests.
>
> cheers
> -Linda and Adrian
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>



-- 
===========================
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

--001a114e474a8dbd750521c3e7fa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Hi Linda,</div><div>Could I present the followin=
g draft in 5 minutes?</div><div><br></div><div>Software-Defined Networking =
Based Security Services using Interface to Network Security Functions</div>=
<div>(<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security=
-services-03">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-se=
rvices-03</a>)</div><div><br></div><div>This document describes a framework=
, objectives, requirements, and</div><div>use cases for security services b=
ased on Software-Defined Networking</div><div>(SDN) using a common Interfac=
e to Network Security Functions (I2NSF).</div><div><br></div><div>We would =
like to present how this work can complement other uses cases=C2=A0</div><d=
iv>in I2NSF and next steps along the milestone of I2NSF.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Paul</div></div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 1:28 AM=
, Linda Dunbar <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
We will have our first I2NSF WG meeting at IETF 94 (Yokohama).<br>
<br>
As per the preliminary agenda, I2NSF WG is scheduled to meet on Tue (Nov 3)=
 0900-1130 Morning Session in Room 302.<br>
<br>
This email is to solicit slot requests to present in the WG session.<br>
Please provide<br>
<br>
* Name of the draft<br>
* Short description of why you think the item needs to be discussed in the =
meeting<br>
<br>
<br>
Kindly note that, priority will be given to Requests related to the WG char=
tered items.<br>
<br>
Please do reply to this email with your requests.<br>
<br>
cheers<br>
-Linda and Adrian<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>Mr. J=
aehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.<br>Assistant Professor<br>Department of Software=
<br>Sungkyunkwan University<br>Office: +82-31-299-4957<br>Email: <a href=3D=
"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a=
>,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu" style=3D"font-size:12.8000001=
907349px" target=3D"_blank">pauljeong@skku.edu</a><br>Personal Homepage: <a=
 href=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php</a><br></div></div></div><=
/div>
</div>

--001a114e474a8dbd750521c3e7fa--


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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Aldo Basile <cataldo.basile@polito.it>, "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Aldo Basile <cataldo.basile@polito.it>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
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Aldo,=20

Thank you very much for the links. They are very helpful.=20

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Aldo Basile [mailto:cataldo.basile@polito.it]=20
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 10:07 AM
To: Linda Dunbar; DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; Loa Andersson
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's Group Ba=
sed Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?

Dear Linda,

first of all sorry for the very late reply, and thanks Diego for=20
introducing me (and presenting me as a 'policy expert').

I admit there is not a lot of good literature on Security Management (I=20
assume Policy-based Security Management or Policy-Based Network Security=20
Management, which is a relatively narrow field). I'm listing here some=20
works but I'm sure you already know all of them.

1) Most of the works start from the Strassner definition of Policy-based=20
Network Management (PBNM). Strassner introduced the idea of 'policy=20
continuum' and developed the DEN-ng architecture.

Here a set of links to Strassner's papers:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=3D10.1.1.495.4361&rep=3Dr=
ep1&type=3Dpdf
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=3D&arnumber=3D1015622&url=3Dhtt=
p%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D1015622

He also published a book (which I didn't read):
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=3D1206794

2) Then, I know this work from an IBM fellow that tries to map and=20
organize PBNM concepts on the security field
http://researchweb.watson.ibm.com/people/d/dverma/papers/NetMgmtPolicy.pdf

3) Then there are the RFC3198 and the PCIM series (RFC 3060, now RFC 3460).


No recent works though. Apparently, this research field has moved from=20
academia to industry.

Please let me know if you further details or if I didn't interpret=20
correctly the "Security Management" field.

Regards,
Aldo

On 06/10/2015 17:56, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Diego: Thank you very much for relaying Aldo=92s comments. That is very
> useful.
>
> Aldo: Can you suggest some references for the =93Security Management=94?
>
> Bear in mind that I2NSF is not to tackle the general policies (which
> belongs to SUPA WG).
>
> I2NSF is to open a hole for clients/applications to inform to Flow-based
> NSFs to inform them the rules for treating traffic traversing through.
>
> Using PCIM (RFC3060 which the ITU-T X.1036 was based on) as a basis
> would be a good idea. However, RFC3060 was created for general network
> policies for Directory Enabled Network, in some aspects more than what
> I2NSF needs, and in other aspects needs extension. Especially need
> extension on the Policy Context (i.e. the directions, the time, and
> other contextual events that governs the policies to NSFs). E.g.
>
> *From:*DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 06, 2015 6:07 AM
> *To:* Linda Dunbar
> *Cc:* Loa Andersson; Aldo Basile; i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
> Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
> Hi Linda,
>
> I have been talking about this with one of the policy experts in the
> SECURED project (Aldo Basile, I have put him in Cc: so you can identify
> him, though he is in the I2NSF list as well=85) and these are his comment=
s:
>
> 8<=97
>
>     In my understanding, OpenStack Group Policies are a simplified yet
>     generic way to associate iptables-like rules, the syntax is very
>     similar.
>     It is network management rather then security management. You can
>     express simple network policies (commands) and associate to network
>     nodes and groups.
>
>     GBP is not a generic framework for expressing policies.
>     Something is general (like the definition of rules as
>     (classifier,action)) but it requires several extensions that, in the
>     end, when completed will lead to PCIM or SG17-like models.
>
>     Thus, in my opinion, SG17/PCIM are certainly a better starting
>     point, and also easier to push SECURED results.
>
>     "Policy Classifier" is another way to tell 'matching conditions' (as
>     networking people likes the word classifier, for me a classifier is
>     something more intelligent).
>
>     Conditions available on OpenStack Group Policies are now a very
>     limited subset of l4 filtering (they don't even cover packet
>     filters). However, the model (condition,action) is general enough to
>     cope with future needs (by adding more classifiers).
>
>     There is no way to categorize policies (thus no capabilities no easy
>     link to NSF categorization for interoperability).
>
>     Then, no resolution strategies, no default actions, no priorities,
>     no other sophisticated ways to express policies.
>
> 8<=97
>
> I=92ll let Aldo to express his views in more detail, but my position is
> that we should consider an existing general framework as starting point,
> and that PCIM (see http://www.dmtf.org/standards/policy) is the most
> promising one.
>
> Be goode,
>
>     On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:45 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com
>     <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks to Loa and Diego for the comments.
>
>     Here are some pros and cons of using Open Stack Group Based Policy:
>
>     Pros:
>
>     =B7There are running codes (open sourced code)
>
>     Cons:
>
>     =B7The OpenStack's group based policy is very much Neutron port
>     oriented. It is not straight forward for an environment that is not
>     based on OpenStack Neutron.
>
>     =B7They are not designed for expressing rules to Flow-based NSF on ho=
w
>     to treat client/applications traffic. The current set is not
>     complete,  a lot more need to be added.
>
>     =B7There are other "Group Based Policy", e.g. Window's Group Policy,
>     which are quite different from the OpenStack=92s Group Based Policy.
>
>     =B7May cause confusion in industry if calling =93Group Based Policy=
=94 for
>     I2NSF Service Layer
>
>     However, the notation of Groups, Target, Context and action do cover
>     what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how
>     their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks. And
>     they can be mapped to the Capability layer=92s
>     Subject-Object-Action-Function=94 paradigm.
>
>     To avoid the confusion, it might be better to avoid using the term
>     =93Group based policy=94 (but inherent their concept only).
>
>     For example, =93group=94 can be represented by =93Composite
>     Endpoints/Targets=94 or Endpoint Container (if using SUPA language),
>     where an =93Endpoint=94 can be a subnet, a set of hosts or applicatio=
ns,
>     etc.
>
>     =B7Composite Endpoint (CEP). Logical combination of endpoint
>     descriptor IDs, where descriptor can be subnet, set of hosts, or
>     applications.
>
>     =B7Endpoint Descriptor (EPD). Each endpoint descriptor has a type and
>     value that are used to partially identify the endpoint. The type of
>     the Endpoint Descriptor may be a base networking identifier, such as
>     an IP address, or a user-defined type. The value may be a single
>     value, a range of values, or a group of values.
>
>     =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>     communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a
>     physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logical egress port.
>
>     =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>     traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>     Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>     =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Policy context and a set
>     of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>     =B7Policy Context. Context that describes when a Policy Rule is to be
>     applied. It is expressed as a direction, a list of L4 ports, time
>     range, and a protocol.
>
>     =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>     matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>     allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics functions
>     (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>     functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence
>     of functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
>     Comments are greatly appreciated.
>
>     Linda
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
>     Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:18 AM
>     To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
>     Cc:i2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
>     Subject: Re: [I2nsf] What do you people think of using OpenStack's
>     Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF Service Layer Rules?
>
>     Linda and Diego,
>
>     This is said by someone that is not familiar with Open Stack or the
>     Group Based Policy.
>
>     I'm somewhat on the same page as Diego, at least in the same book.
>
>     If we want to use  OpenStack's Group Based Policy to describe I2NSF
>     Service Layer Rules, the case for this has to be made much better.
>
>     What are the pros and cons? Are there viable alternatives?
>
>     /Loa
>
>     On 2015-10-02 06:41, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
>
>     > Hi Linda,
>
>     >
>
>     > I am not completely sure that the current networking model of
>
>     > OpenStack, that is reflected in the rule targets (either the PTG an=
d
>
>     > the Target
>
>     > itself) does cover all the potential semantics for general security
>
>     > functions. The same concern applies to Policy Classifier, as they s=
eem
>
>     > very much associated with a particular implementation model and, wh=
at
>
>     > is more, with a limited network model.
>
>     >
>
>     > Be goode,
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     >> On 1 Oct 2015, at 23:32 , Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com <m=
ailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>
>     >> <mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> wrote:
>
>     >>
>
>     >> I2NSF participants,
>
>     >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interfa=
ce
>
>     >> -im/specifies the structure for I2NSF capability layer rules.
>
>     >> For the I2NSF simple service layer, what do people think of using
>
>     >> OpenStack=92s Group Policy structure ?
>
>     >> If using OpenStack Group-based Policy (GBP) structure, the I2NSF
>
>     >> simple service layer can be expressed as =B7Policy Target Group (P=
TG).
>
>     >> This is a group of Targets to which a traffic policy can be applie=
d.
>
>     >> A PTG may be mapped to a Neutron Subnet, a client virtual Subnet
>
>     >> (i.e. with private address prefix), a subnet with public address
>
>     >> families, or any combination of them with logical operators (Logic=
al
>
>     >> AND, OR, or NOT). A PTG references one or more Policy Rule Sets th=
at
>
>     >> it consumes or provides.
>
>     >> =B7Target. This is used by the application client to establish
>
>     >> communications over the network. A Target is mapped to a single
>
>     >> Neutron Port, a physical/logical ingress port, or a physical/logic=
al
>
>     >> egress port.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Rule Set. A Policy Rule Set is used to determine how the
>
>     >> traffic between a pair of Target Groups is to be treated. A Policy
>
>     >> Rule Set consists of one or more Policy Rules.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Rule. A Policy Rule consists of a Traffic Classifier and=
 a
>
>     >> set of Actions to be applied to the traffic.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Classifier. A traffic classifier describes the traffic t=
o
>
>     >> which a Policy Rule is to be applied. It is expressed as a directi=
on,
>
>     >> a list of L4 ports, time range, and a protocol.
>
>     >> =B7Policy Action. This is the action applied to the traffic that
>
>     >> matches the classifier. An action may be a simple ACL action (i.e.
>
>     >> allow, deny, mirroring), applying a well known statistics function=
s
>
>     >> (e.g. X minutes count, Y hours court), applying client specified
>
>     >> functions (with URL provided), or may refer to an ordered sequence=
 of
>
>     >> functions (i.e., a service chain).
>
>     >> If you have concern of using OpenStack Group Based Policies, pleas=
e
>
>     >> let the group know.
>
>     >> Thanks, Linda
>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>
>     >> I2nsf mailing list
>
>     >>I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org><mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>     >
>
>     > --
>
>     > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
>     >
>
>     > Dr Diego R. Lopez
>
>     > Telefonica I+D
>
>     >http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
>     >
>
>     > e-mail:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonic=
a.com>
>
>     > Tel:    +34 913 129 041
>
>     > Mobile: +34 682 051 091
>
>     > ----------------------------------
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > -------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
>
>     > --
>
>     >
>
>     > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su
>
>     > destinatario, puede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidenc=
ial y
>
>     > es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es
>
>     > usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura=
,
>
>     > utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede est=
ar
>
>     > prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido est=
e
>
>     > mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente p=
or
>
>     > esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.
>
>     >
>
>     > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
>
>     > confidential information intended only for the use of the individua=
l
>
>     > or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the
>
>     > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>
>     > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibite=
d.
>
>     > If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it.
>
>     > Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this
>
>     > communication in error and then delete it.
>
>     >
>
>     > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
>
>     > destinat=E1rio, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confiden=
cial e =E9
>
>     > para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 v=
ossa
>
>     > senhoria o destinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitur=
a,
>
>     > utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pod=
e estar proibida
>
>     > em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por =
erro,
>
>     > rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e
>
>     > proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o
>
>     >
>
>     >
>
>     > _______________________________________________
>
>     > I2nsf mailing list
>
>     >I2nsf@ietf.org <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org>
>
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>     >
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com <mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com=
>
> Tel:    +34 913 129 041
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> ----------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario,
> puede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso
> exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el
> destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n,
> divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtu=
d
> de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le
> rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proced=
a
> a su destrucci=F3n.
>
> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately
> reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error
> and then delete it.
>
> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu
> destinat=E1rio, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e=
 =E9
> para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa
> senhoria o destinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura,
> utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode esta=
r proibida em
> virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro,
> rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e
> proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>



From nobody Wed Oct 14 14:58:52 2015
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:58:32 +0100
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Cc: 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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Hi,

As Linda previous noted, we are scheduled to meet in Yokohama.

The final agenda (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/agenda.html) shows...

Tuesday, November 3, 2015 (JST)
9:00-11:30 Tuesday Morning session I 
Room 302  sec i2nsf  Interface to Network Security Functions 

(Please note the change in day from the draft agenda!)


Linda and I will work on an agenda and we will probably be knocking on a few
doors to find people who can help us work towards our early milestones.

In the meantime, we would love to line up some happy helpers:
- Jabber scribe
  Particularly valuable for remote participants
  Not a hard job
  See RFC 7649
- Minute-takers
  We don't need verbatim minutes (the audio recording is archived)
  It is helpful to have a record of the main points and any decisions made
  The chairs and WG will edit what you write

Please look into your souls and volunteer for these essential tasks.

Thanks,
Linda and Adrian


From nobody Wed Oct 14 18:17:57 2015
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From: "Zhouqian (Cathy)" <cathy.zhou@huawei.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
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Hi Adrian,
I volunteer for the minute taker.

Best Regards,
Cathy Zhou


> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:59 AM
> To: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Cc: Linda Dunbar
> Subject: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> As Linda previous noted, we are scheduled to meet in Yokohama.
>=20
> The final agenda (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/agenda.html)
> shows...
>=20
> Tuesday, November 3, 2015 (JST)
> 9:00-11:30 Tuesday Morning session I
> Room 302  sec i2nsf  Interface to Network Security Functions
>=20
> (Please note the change in day from the draft agenda!)
>=20
>=20
> Linda and I will work on an agenda and we will probably be knocking on a =
few
> doors to find people who can help us work towards our early milestones.
>=20
> In the meantime, we would love to line up some happy helpers:
> - Jabber scribe
>   Particularly valuable for remote participants
>   Not a hard job
>   See RFC 7649
> - Minute-takers
>   We don't need verbatim minutes (the audio recording is archived)
>   It is helpful to have a record of the main points and any decisions mad=
e
>   The chairs and WG will edit what you write
>=20
> Please look into your souls and volunteer for these essential tasks.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Linda and Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


From nobody Wed Oct 14 18:52:55 2015
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Adrian and Linda: 

 

I will take minutes at I2NSF. 

 

Sue Hares

 

-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 5:59 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: 'Linda Dunbar'
Subject: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama

 

Hi,

 

As Linda previous noted, we are scheduled to meet in Yokohama.

 

The final agenda ( <https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/agenda.html>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/agenda.html) shows...

 

Tuesday, November 3, 2015 (JST)

9:00-11:30 Tuesday Morning session I

Room 302  sec i2nsf  Interface to Network Security Functions 

 

(Please note the change in day from the draft agenda!)

 

 

Linda and I will work on an agenda and we will probably be knocking on a few
doors to find people who can help us work towards our early milestones.

 

In the meantime, we would love to line up some happy helpers:

- Jabber scribe

  Particularly valuable for remote participants

  Not a hard job

  See RFC 7649

- Minute-takers

  We don't need verbatim minutes (the audio recording is archived)

  It is helpful to have a record of the main points and any decisions made

  The chairs and WG will edit what you write

 

Please look into your souls and volunteer for these essential tasks.

 

Thanks,

Linda and Adrian

 

_______________________________________________

I2nsf mailing list

 <mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org> I2nsf@ietf.org

 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Adrian =
and Linda: <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I will =
take minutes at I2NSF. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sue =
Hares<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: I2nsf =
[mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel<br>Sent: =
Wednesday, October 14, 2015 5:59 PM<br>To: i2nsf@ietf.org<br>Cc: 'Linda =
Dunbar'<br>Subject: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama</p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>As =
Linda previous noted, we are scheduled to meet in =
Yokohama.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>The final agenda (<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/94/agenda.html"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/meeting/94/agenda.html</span></a>) shows...<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Tuesday, November 3, 2015 (JST)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>9:00-11:30 Tuesday Morning session =
I<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Room 302&nbsp; sec i2nsf&nbsp; =
Interface to Network Security Functions <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>(Please note the change in day from the draft =
agenda!)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Linda =
and I will work on an agenda and we will probably be knocking on a few =
doors to find people who can help us work towards our early =
milestones.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>In the =
meantime, we would love to line up some happy helpers:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>- Jabber scribe<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp; Particularly valuable for remote =
participants<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp; Not a hard =
job<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp; See RFC =
7649<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>- =
Minute-takers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp; We don't need =
verbatim minutes (the audio recording is archived)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp; It is helpful to have a record of the main =
points and any decisions made<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp; The chairs and WG will edit what you =
write<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Please look into your souls and volunteer for these =
essential tasks.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Linda =
and Adrian<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I2nsf mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>I2nsf@ietf.org</span></a>=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/i2nsf</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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Cathy and Sue,
 
Perfect, thanks. 
 
Cheers,
Adrian

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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"65" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"66" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"67" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"69" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"70" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"71" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"72" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"37" Name=3D"Bibliography"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"39" QFormat=3D"true" =
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Cathy and =
Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Perfect, thanks. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-=
bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01D10715.0885D030--


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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:19:07 +0000
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Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, "Zhouqian \(Cathy\)" <cathy.zhou@huawei.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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From nobody Fri Oct 16 20:55:10 2015
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA'" <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
References: <003301d106cb$79a613f0$6cf23bd0$@olddog.co.uk> <00b601d106ec$2e3d68c0$8ab83a40$@ndzh.com> <00a601d1070c$a6c16830$f4443890$@olddog.co.uk> <7369455B-B70B-4C32-A1B4-E60F9487E65A@telefonica.com>
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Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, "'Zhouqian \(Cathy\)'" <cathy.zhou@huawei.com>, 'Susan Hares' <shares@ndzh.com>, 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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Thanks Diego.
=20
Cathy volunteered for minutes, so you are stuck with jabber. Appreciate =
it a lot.
=20
Adrian
--
Read my latest...
Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales
http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924
Or buy from me direct.
=20
From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com]=20
Sent: 15 October 2015 11:19
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Cc: Susan Hares; Zhouqian (Cathy); i2nsf@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
=20
Not sure if Cathy has volunteered for acting as Jabber scribe. If not, =
count me in=E2=80=A6=20

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Diego.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Cathy volunteered for minutes, =
so you are stuck with jabber. Appreciate it a =
lot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Read my =
latest...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Tales from the Wood - Eighteen =
new fairy tales<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tal=
es-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood=
-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-=
font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes'>Or buy from me =
direct.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> DIEGO LOPEZ =
GARCIA [mailto:diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 15 October =
2015 11:19<br><b>To:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk<br><b>Cc:</b> Susan Hares; =
Zhouqian (Cathy); i2nsf@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Not sure if Cathy =
has volunteered for acting as Jabber scribe. If not, count me =
in=E2=80=A6 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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From nobody Sun Oct 18 17:29:30 2015
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From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 20:29:17 -0400
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Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: [I2nsf] Combined Use Case and Gap Analysis document
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Hi all: 

 

I've combined the I2NSF Use case work and gap analysis work into one
document for consideration.  Due to the limitation of five authors in a
Working Group draft, I have selected 5 authors for this first submission.  I
will work with the chairs to select the appropriate authors for this
combined draft. 

 

Please suggest limitation or areas of the draft I should trim. 

 

 

Sue Hares

 

------------------

 

A new version of I-D, draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis-00.txt

has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and posted to the IETF
repository.

 

Name:                  draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis

Revision:              00

Title:                      Analysis of Use Cases and Gaps in Technology for
I2NSF

Document date:               2015-10-18

Group:                  Individual Submission

Pages:                   55

URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis
-00.txt

Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis/

Htmlized:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis-00

 

 

Abstract:

   This document provides a summary of the I2NSF use cases plus a

   summary of the stat of the art in industries and IETF work which is

   relevant to the Interface to Network Security Function (I2NSF).  The

   I2NSF focus is to define data models and interfaces in order to

   control and monitor the physical and virtual aspects of network

   security functions.  The use cases are organized in two basic

   scenarios.  In the access network scenario, mobile and residential

   users access NSF capabilities using their network service provider

   infrastructure.  In the data center scenario customers manage NSFs

   hosted in the data center infrastructure.

 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi all: =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I&#8217;ve combined the I2NSF Use case work and gap =
analysis work into one document for consideration.&nbsp; Due to the =
limitation of five authors in a Working Group draft, I have selected 5 =
authors for this first submission.&nbsp; I will work with the chairs to =
select the appropriate authors for this combined draft. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Please suggest limitation or areas of the draft I =
should trim. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue =
Hares<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>------------------<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>A new =
version of I-D, =
draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis-00.txt<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and =
posted to the IETF repository.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysis<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 00<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; Analysis of Use Cases and Gaps in Technology for =
I2NSF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Document =
date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2015-10-18<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual =
Submission<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
55<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-g=
ap-analysis-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2ns=
f-use-case-gap-analysis-00.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Status:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-a=
nalysis/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap=
-analysis/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Htmlized:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analys=
is-00">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-use-case-gap-analysi=
s-00</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>Abstract:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document provides a summary of =
the I2NSF use cases plus a<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; summary of the stat of the art in =
industries and IETF work which is<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; relevant to the Interface to Network =
Security Function (I2NSF).&nbsp; The<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; I2NSF focus is to define data models =
and interfaces in order to<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; control and monitor the physical and =
virtual aspects of network<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; security functions.&nbsp; The use =
cases are organized in two basic<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; scenarios.&nbsp; In the access network =
scenario, mobile and residential<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; users access NSF capabilities using =
their network service provider<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; infrastructure.&nbsp; In the data =
center scenario customers manage NSFs<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&nbsp;&nbsp; hosted in the data center =
infrastructure.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00E7_01D109E3.A9D68710--


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From nobody Sun Oct 18 18:57:57 2015
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From: "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: Presentation slot request:
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Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 01:57:36 +0000
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Hi I2NSF Chairs:
I want to request a 15 minutes time slot for presenting the following draft=
:


draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-interface-im-04

This draft is focused on the capability interface of NSFs (Network Security=
 Functions) and proposes its information model for controlling the various =
network security functions.

Thanks!

B.R.
Frank

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi I2NSF Chairs:<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I want to request a 15 minutes =
time slot for presenting the following draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-xia-i2nsf-capability-i=
nterface-im-04<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This draft is focused on the=
 capability interface of NSFs (Network Security Functions) and proposes its=
 information model for controlling the various network security functions.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">B.R.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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--_000_C02846B1344F344EB4FAA6FA7AF481F12AE8DDBFSZXEMA502MBSchi_--


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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Combined Use Case and Gap Analysis document
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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Preparing for Yokohama
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From nobody Mon Oct 19 10:05:01 2015
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Linda and I are just working on the last bits

Adrian


From nobody Mon Oct 19 12:28:37 2015
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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] IETF 94 - I2NSF Meeting slot request
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] IETF 94 - I2NSF Meeting slot request
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Dear Chairs,
I'd like to request a 5-10 min slot to present the new document: draft-zhou=
-i2nsf-capability-interface-monitoring, which describes the monitoring aspe=
cts of the capability interface.=20

As specified in the i2nsf charter, the working group may consider to work o=
n the information model to describe the control and monitoring of the flow-=
based NSFs if necessary. This document aims to define the monitoring aspect=
s of the work. The network security mechanism would be more efficient if th=
e Security Controller could monitor, analyze and investigate the abnormal e=
vents and finally produce security reports to the security administrators. =
The security controller should be able to collect the traffic and session i=
nformation related to the network performance from the NSF, in order to mak=
e necessary actions, e.g., traffic cleaning or sampling adjustment.=20

To the folks in the mailing list: your comments are welcome and appreciated=
.

Best Regards,
Cathy Zhou

> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:03 PM
> To: Xiongjie (Emma); Zhouqian (Cathy); Xialiang (Frank); Xiongjie (Emma);
> Mohamed Boucadair; Zhouqian (Cathy); Mohamed Boucadair; Xialiang (Frank)
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-zhou-i2nsf-capability-interface-monitoring-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-zhou-i2nsf-capability-interface-monitoring-00=
.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Cathy Zhou and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>=20
> Name:		draft-zhou-i2nsf-capability-interface-monitoring
> Revision:	00
> Title:		The Capability Interface for Monitoring Network Security
> Functions (NSF) in I2NSF
> Document date:	2015-10-19
> Group:		Individual Submission
> Pages:		7
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhou-i2nsf-capability-interfac=
e-moni
> toring-00.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhou-i2nsf-capability-interface-mo=
nitorin
> g/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhou-i2nsf-capability-interface-monitor=
ing-00
>=20
>=20
> Abstract:
>    This document focuses on the monitoring aspects of the flow-based
>    Network Security Functions (NSFs).  The NSF Capability interface
>    between the Service Provider's management system (or Security
>    Controller) and the NSFs is meant to enforce the required monitoring
>    capability.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat



> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 12:29 AM
> To: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: [I2nsf] IETF 94 - I2NSF Meeting slot request
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> We will have our first I2NSF WG meeting at IETF 94 (Yokohama).
>=20
> As per the preliminary agenda, I2NSF WG is scheduled to meet on Tue (Nov =
3)
> 0900-1130 Morning Session in Room 302.
>=20
> This email is to solicit slot requests to present in the WG session.
> Please provide
>=20
> * Name of the draft
> * Short description of why you think the item needs to be discussed in th=
e
> meeting
>=20
>=20
> Kindly note that, priority will be given to Requests related to the WG ch=
artered
> items.
>=20
> Please do reply to this email with your requests.
>=20
> cheers
> -Linda and Adrian
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Draft agenda coming soon
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Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 06:53:43 +0000
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2nsf/9w0SZ9r56d7ThKrVRu6G9pbhCdc>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Draft agenda coming soon
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Hi Linda and Adrian,

I'd like to request a 10 min slot to present draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-d=
dos-mitigation-api.
I attached our draft here. We encountered some system/connection glitch, th=
e draft did not upload appropriately in time, we are still trying to fix th=
e issue.

At the meantime, we'd like to ask for folks in the WG to review the draft a=
nd gather feedbacks.

The draft is intended to define an Inter-Cloud DDoS Mitigation Abstract Lay=
er and corresponding standardized APIs to enable the exchange of real time =
automated information to enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Provid=
ers and Network Service Providers.  As cloud provider, our Inter-cloud conn=
ections with network providers are facing growing DDoS attacks. Unlike DDoS=
 mitigation within our own cloud networks, Inter-cloud attacks can often be=
 harder to detect and take longer to mitigate due to lack of full visibilit=
y and automated tools when crossing the admin boundaries, and the impact to=
 these large inter-connection links can be substantial. Define and develop =
standard common APIs to support coordinated mitigation on Inter-Cloud conne=
ctions is urgently needed. We are still working to fill the specifications,=
 plan to upload a new version when submission reopens at IETF 94.

Thanks,
Luyuan


-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:05 AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] Draft agenda coming soon

Linda and I are just working on the last bits

Adrian

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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i2nsf/H3AFwTLoj2d9_5mpVn3aQYHE_p8>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Draft agenda coming soon
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The draft now is posted at
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-00=
.txt

Thanks,
Luyuan

-----Original Message-----
From: Luyuan Fang=20
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 11:54 PM
To: 'adrian@olddog.co.uk' <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunb=
ar@huawei.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [I2nsf] Draft agenda coming soon

Hi Linda and Adrian,

I'd like to request a 10 min slot to present draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-d=
dos-mitigation-api.
I attached our draft here. We encountered some system/connection glitch, th=
e draft did not upload appropriately in time, we are still trying to fix th=
e issue.

At the meantime, we'd like to ask for folks in the WG to review the draft a=
nd gather feedbacks.

The draft is intended to define an Inter-Cloud DDoS Mitigation Abstract Lay=
er and corresponding standardized APIs to enable the exchange of real time =
automated information to enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Provid=
ers and Network Service Providers.  As cloud provider, our Inter-cloud conn=
ections with network providers are facing growing DDoS attacks. Unlike DDoS=
 mitigation within our own cloud networks, Inter-cloud attacks can often be=
 harder to detect and take longer to mitigate due to lack of full visibilit=
y and automated tools when crossing the admin boundaries, and the impact to=
 these large inter-connection links can be substantial. Define and develop =
standard common APIs to support coordinated mitigation on Inter-Cloud conne=
ctions is urgently needed. We are still working to fill the specifications,=
 plan to upload a new version when submission reopens at IETF 94.

Thanks,
Luyuan


-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:05 AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] Draft agenda coming soon

Linda and I are just working on the last bits

Adrian

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From nobody Wed Oct 21 02:15:24 2015
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Subject: [I2nsf] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Dear all:

You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking (SDN)-based =
IPsec Flow Protection in this link:

=
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.tx=
t

We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the =
relationship with I2NSF work.

Comments are really welcome.

Best Regards.

-------------------------------------------------------
Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
30100 Murcia - Spain
Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
-------------------------------------------------------





From nobody Wed Oct 21 15:43:55 2015
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>, "sdn@irtf.org" <sdn@irtf.org>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Rafa,=20

Thank you very much for sharing the draft.=20

Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to "SDN Co=
ntroller"?=20
I am not an expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not correct:  i=
f client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply establish two par=
allel IPSec tunnels?=20

 What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec policy? Or do you plan=
 to dive in one step further to define the semantics of the polices or rule=
s for IPSec? =20

Thanks, Linda=20

-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin Lopez
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM
To: sdn@irtf.org; i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez
Subject: [I2nsf] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection

Dear all:

You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking (SDN)-based IPs=
ec Flow Protection in this link:

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.txt

We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the relatio=
nship with I2NSF work.

Comments are really welcome.

Best Regards.

-------------------------------------------------------
Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of Computer=
 Science-University of Murcia
30100 Murcia - Spain
Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
-------------------------------------------------------




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From nobody Thu Oct 22 01:20:26 2015
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From: Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>
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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:19:57 +0200
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Gabriel Lopez <gabilm@um.es>, "sdn@irtf.org" <sdn@irtf.org>, Alejandro Abad UM <alejandroprimitivo.abad@um.es>, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Dear Linda:

First of all, thanks for commenting on our draft.

> El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> =
escribi=C3=B3:
>=20
> Rafa,=20
>=20
> Thank you very much for sharing the draft.=20
>=20
> Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to =
"SDN Controller=E2=80=9D?=20
> I am not an expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not =
correct:  if client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply =
establish two parallel IPSec tunnels?=20

Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try to clarify. When you =
want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you have to configure =
rules/policies to determine what kind of traffic you want to protect.=20

Imagine you have* : =20

Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =E2=80=94 GW_A =
(192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - (172.16.2.0/24) =
Network_B

With ipsec-tools in Linux you define the following policies to protect =
traffic between both networks with a tunnel. Administrators of both =
networks have to configure this in both GW_A and GW_B :

spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 any -P out ipsec
           esp/tunnel/192.168.1.100-192.168.2.100/require;

spdadd 172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P in ipsec
           esp/tunnel/192.168.2.100-192.168.1.100/require;

*See the detailed example in Fig. 5 in =
http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html

Moreover it has to specify other parameters such as credentials to be =
used to establish IKE SA, cryptographic algorithms etc=E2=80=A6

>=20
> What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec policy?

Our goal is to automatize the management of IPsec security associations =
so that administrators do not have add those rules in each device. The =
general idea stemmed from the following principle:

To establish an IPsec security association you run first IKE to =
negotiate the IPsec SA (control plane). Once it is established some =
parameters are configured in the kernel of the network devices, so they =
can process the IP packets with IPsec before forwarding (data plane). So =
for us, there is a clear separation between these two planes.

Additionally, please think that IPsec uses packet filtering (and =
cryptography). In this sense we consider that a NSF can perform this =
task. Thus, some interface as those to be defined in I2NSF may be =
required. Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in the following =
link:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00


> Or do you plan to dive in one step further to define the semantics of =
the polices or rules for IPSec? =20

If I understand correctly your question I will say the semantics and =
rules for IPsec are already there as shown in the example. Another thing =
to consider is to define through an application a more general rule such =
as =E2=80=9CI want to protect traffic against eavesdropping between =
these two networks" that is finally translated in more specific IPsec =
policies

We hope this clarify your doubts. In any case, if you have any other =
question do not hesitate to ask.=20

Best Regards.
>=20
> Thanks, Linda=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin =
Lopez
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM
> To: sdn@irtf.org; i2nsf@ietf.org
> Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez
> Subject: [I2nsf] New update of =
draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>=20
> Dear all:
>=20
> You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking =
(SDN)-based IPsec Flow Protection in this link:
>=20
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.tx=
t
>=20
> We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the =
relationship with I2NSF work.
>=20
> Comments are really welcome.
>=20
> Best Regards.
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of =
Computer Science-University of Murcia
> 30100 Murcia - Spain
> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
> -------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf

-------------------------------------------------------
Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
30100 Murcia - Spain
Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
-------------------------------------------------------





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From: Gabriel Lopez <gabilm@um.es>
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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:31:48 +0200
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To: Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>
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Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, "sdn@irtf.org" <sdn@irtf.org>, Alejandro Abad UM <alejandroprimitivo.abad@um.es>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Hi,

Thanks for the review.

Please, note that the draft also include IKE policies.

As described in Rafa=E2=80=99s response, IKE allows two peers to =
dynamically negotiate the cryptography material for IPSec in a secure =
way.
An example of IKE policies could be:

ike {
	proposal proposal-1 {
		authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
		dh-group group1;
		authentication-algorithm sha1;
		encryption-algorithm 3des-cbc;
		lifetime-seconds 1000;
	}
	proposal proposal-2 {
		authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
		dh-group group2;
		authentication-algorithm md5;
		encryption-algorithm des-cbc;
		lifetime-seconds 10000;
}

Best regards, Gabi.


> El 22 oct 2015, a las 10:19, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es> escribi=C3=B3=
:
>=20
> Dear Linda:
>=20
> First of all, thanks for commenting on our draft.
>=20
>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com>> escribi=C3=B3:
>>=20
>> Rafa,
>>=20
>> Thank you very much for sharing the draft.
>>=20
>> Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to =
"SDN Controller=E2=80=9D?
>> I am not an expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not =
correct:  if client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply =
establish two parallel IPSec tunnels?
>=20
> Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try to clarify. When you =
want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you have to configure =
rules/policies to determine what kind of traffic you want to protect.
>=20
> Imagine you have* :
>=20
> Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =E2=80=94 GW_A =
(192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - (172.16.2.0/24) =
Network_B
>=20
> With ipsec-tools in Linux you define the following policies to protect =
traffic between both networks with a tunnel. Administrators of both =
networks have to configure this in both GW_A and GW_B :
>=20
> spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 any -P out ipsec
>           esp/tunnel/192.168.1.100-192.168.2.100/require;
>=20
> spdadd 172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P in ipsec
>           esp/tunnel/192.168.2.100-192.168.1.100/require;
>=20
> *See the detailed example in Fig. 5 in =
http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html =
<http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html>
>=20
> Moreover it has to specify other parameters such as credentials to be =
used to establish IKE SA, cryptographic algorithms etc=E2=80=A6
>=20
>>=20
>> What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec policy?
>=20
> Our goal is to automatize the management of IPsec security =
associations so that administrators do not have add those rules in each =
device. The general idea stemmed from the following principle:
>=20
> To establish an IPsec security association you run first IKE to =
negotiate the IPsec SA (control plane). Once it is established some =
parameters are configured in the kernel of the network devices, so they =
can process the IP packets with IPsec before forwarding (data plane). So =
for us, there is a clear separation between these two planes.
>=20
> Additionally, please think that IPsec uses packet filtering (and =
cryptography). In this sense we consider that a NSF can perform this =
task. Thus, some interface as those to be defined in I2NSF may be =
required. Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in the following =
link:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00>
>=20
>=20
>> Or do you plan to dive in one step further to define the semantics of =
the polices or rules for IPSec?
>=20
> If I understand correctly your question I will say the semantics and =
rules for IPsec are already there as shown in the example. Another thing =
to consider is to define through an application a more general rule such =
as =E2=80=9CI want to protect traffic against eavesdropping between =
these two networks" that is finally translated in more specific IPsec =
policies
>=20
> We hope this clarify your doubts. In any case, if you have any other =
question do not hesitate to ask.
>=20
> Best Regards.
>>=20
>> Thanks, Linda
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin =
Lopez
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM
>> To: sdn@irtf.org; i2nsf@ietf.org
>> Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez
>> Subject: [I2nsf] New update of =
draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>>=20
>> Dear all:
>>=20
>> You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking =
(SDN)-based IPsec Flow Protection in this link:
>>=20
>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.tx=
t
>>=20
>> We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the =
relationship with I2NSF work.
>>=20
>> Comments are really welcome.
>>=20
>> Best Regards.
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of =
Computer Science-University of Murcia
>> 30100 Murcia - Spain
>> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
> Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
> 30100 Murcia - Spain
> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es =
<mailto:rafa@um.es>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sdn mailing list
> sdn@irtf.org <mailto:sdn@irtf.org>
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn =
<https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn>


-----------------------------------------------------------
Gabriel L=C3=B3pez Mill=C3=A1n
Departamento de Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Informaci=C3=B3n y las =
Comunicaciones
University of Murcia
Spain
Tel: +34 868888504
Fax: +34 868884151
email: gabilm@um.es <mailto:gabilm@um.es>





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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Hi,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks for the review.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Please, note that the draft also =
include IKE policies.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">As described in Rafa=E2=80=99s response, IKE allows two peers =
to dynamically negotiate the cryptography material for IPSec in a secure =
way.</div><div class=3D"">An example of IKE policies could be:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">ike {<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>proposal =
proposal-1 {<br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">		</span>authentication-method =
pre-shared-keys;<br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">		</span>dh-group group1;<br =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">		=
</span>authentication-algorithm sha1;<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">		=
</span>encryption-algorithm 3des-cbc;<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">		=
</span>lifetime-seconds 1000;<br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>}<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>proposal =
proposal-2 {<br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">		</span>authentication-method =
pre-shared-keys;<br class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">		</span>dh-group group2;<br =
class=3D""><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">		=
</span>authentication-algorithm md5;<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">		=
</span>encryption-algorithm des-cbc;<br class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">		=
</span>lifetime-seconds 10000;<br class=3D"">}</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Best regards, Gabi.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">El 22 oct 2015, a las 10:19, =
Rafa Marin Lopez &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rafa@um.es" =
class=3D"">rafa@um.es</a>&gt; escribi=C3=B3:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Dear Linda:</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">First of all, thanks for commenting on our =
draft.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, =
Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt; escribi=C3=B3:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Rafa,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thank you very much for sharing the draft.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can =
give to "SDN Controller=E2=80=9D?<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D"">I am not an =
expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not correct: &nbsp;if =
client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply establish two =
parallel IPSec tunnels?<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try =
to clarify. When you want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you =
have to configure rules/policies to determine what kind of traffic you =
want to protect.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Imagine you have* : &nbsp;</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =E2=80=94 GW_A =
(192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - (172.16.2.0/24) =
Network_B</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">With ipsec-tools in Linux =
you define the following policies to protect traffic between both =
networks with a tunnel. Administrators of both networks have to =
configure this in both GW_A and GW_B :</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 any -P out =
ipsec</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;esp=
/tunnel/192.168.1.100-192.168.2.100/require;</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">spdadd 172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P =
in ipsec</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;esp=
/tunnel/192.168.2.100-192.168.1.100/require;</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">*See the detailed example in Fig. 5 =
in<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html</a><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Moreover it has to specify other =
parameters such as credentials to be used to establish IKE SA, =
cryptographic algorithms etc=E2=80=A6</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec =
policy?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Our goal is to automatize the management of =
IPsec security associations so that administrators do not have add those =
rules in each device. The general idea stemmed from the following =
principle:</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">To establish an IPsec =
security association you run first IKE to negotiate the IPsec SA =
(control plane). Once it is established some parameters are configured =
in the kernel of the network devices, so they can process the IP packets =
with IPsec before forwarding (data plane). So for us, there is a clear =
separation between these two planes.</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Additionally, please think that IPsec uses =
packet filtering (and cryptography). In this sense we consider that a =
NSF can perform this task. Thus, some interface as those to be defined =
in I2NSF may be required. Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in =
the following link:</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00</a>=
<br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Or do you =
plan to dive in one step further to define the semantics of the polices =
or rules for IPSec? &nbsp;<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">If I understand correctly =
your question I will say the semantics and rules for IPsec are already =
there as shown in the example. Another thing to consider is to define =
through an application a more general rule such as =E2=80=9CI want to =
protect traffic against eavesdropping between these two networks" that =
is finally translated in more specific IPsec policies</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">We hope this clarify your doubts. In any =
case, if you have any other question do not hesitate to ask.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">Best Regards.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks, =
Linda<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">-----Original Message-----<br class=3D"">From: I2nsf [<a =
href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin =
Lopez<br class=3D"">Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM<br =
class=3D"">To: <a href=3D"mailto:sdn@irtf.org" =
class=3D"">sdn@irtf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro =
Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez<br class=3D"">Subject: [I2nsf] New update of =
draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Dear all:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">You may find a new =
update about Software-Defined Networking (SDN)-based IPsec Flow =
Protection in this link:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protecti=
on-01.txt" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-prote=
ction-01.txt</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">We have added some minor =
modifications and a section to explain the relationship with I2NSF =
work.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Comments are really welcome.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Best Regards.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD<br class=3D"">Dept. Information and =
Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of Computer Science-University =
of Murcia<br class=3D"">30100 Murcia - Spain<br class=3D"">Telf: =
+34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es<br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">I2nsf mailing list<br class=3D"">I2nsf@ietf.org<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------</span><=
br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Rafael Marin Lopez, =
PhD</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Dept. Information and Communications Engineering =
(DIIC)</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Faculty of Computer Science-University of =
Murcia</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">30100 Murcia - Spain</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Telf: +34868888501 Fax: =
+34868884151 e-mail:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"mailto:rafa@um.es" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">rafa@um.es</a><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------</span><=
br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: =
none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">sdn mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:sdn@irtf.org" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">sdn@irtf.org</a><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: =
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn</a></div></blockquote=
></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">-----------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Gabriel L=C3=B3pez Mill=C3=A1n<br class=3D"">Departamento de =
Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Informaci=C3=B3n y las Comunicaciones<br =
class=3D"">University of Murcia<br class=3D"">Spain<br class=3D"">Tel: =
+34 868888504<br class=3D"">Fax: +34 868884151<br =
class=3D"">email:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:gabilm@um.es" =
class=3D"">gabilm@um.es</a><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Gabriel Lopez <gabilm@um.es>, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
Thread-Index: AQHRDKQmzKrIC/qIy0W+y47uFrSOGJ537v3A
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:06:25 +0000
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References: <CD8880C6-90B6-4125-BBCE-6AA0B76DA2D7@um.es> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D71571@dfweml701-chm> <89725C38-5C24-44B2-9957-BAD267993F92@um.es> <160732AF-02A9-48FB-BF91-94412A1688C0@um.es>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D7208Adfweml701chm_--


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From: Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Hi Linda:

> El 22 oct 2015, a las 22:06, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> =
escribi=C3=B3:
>=20
> Rafa and Gabi,
> =20
> Thank you very much for the explanation. That is very helpful.
> =20
> Based on your explanation,  the Capability Layer interface for IPSec =
has been defined

If you are referring to the YANG model with IPsec then we have a good =
step with draft-wang-ipsecme-ipsec-yang

> but there is need for the Service Layer rules for IPSec. The service =
layer IPSec rules can be applied to many pairs of IPsec tunnels, so that =
administrators don=E2=80=99t need to manually setup each one. Is my =
understanding correct?

Right, that is also our understanding.=20

> =20
> Is it true that the IKE policies can be utilized between Security =
Controller and Client for the Service Layer interface?

Yes, that might be a possibility, though we understand a deeper analysis =
is required.

Best Regards.

> =20
> Thanks, Linda
> =20
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel Lopez
> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:32 AM
> To: Rafa Marin Lopez
> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; sdn@irtf.org; Alejandro Abad UM; Linda Dunbar
> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of =
draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
> =20
> =20
> Hi,
> =20
> Thanks for the review.
> =20
> Please, note that the draft also include IKE policies.
> =20
> As described in Rafa=E2=80=99s response, IKE allows two peers to =
dynamically negotiate the cryptography material for IPSec in a secure =
way.
> An example of IKE policies could be:
> =20
> ike {
>             proposal proposal-1 {
>                         authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
>                         dh-group group1;
>                         authentication-algorithm sha1;
>                         encryption-algorithm 3des-cbc;
>                         lifetime-seconds 1000;
>             }
>             proposal proposal-2 {
>                         authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
>                         dh-group group2;
>                         authentication-algorithm md5;
>                         encryption-algorithm des-cbc;
>                         lifetime-seconds 10000;
> }
> =20
> Best regards, Gabi.
> =20
> =20
> El 22 oct 2015, a las 10:19, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es> escribi=C3=B3=
:
> =20
> Dear Linda:
>=20
> First of all, thanks for commenting on our draft.
>=20
>=20
> El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> =
escribi=C3=B3:
>=20
> Rafa,=20
>=20
> Thank you very much for sharing the draft.=20
>=20
> Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to =
"SDN Controller=E2=80=9D?=20
> I am not an expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not =
correct:  if client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply =
establish two parallel IPSec tunnels?=20
>=20
> Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try to clarify. When you =
want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you have to configure =
rules/policies to determine what kind of traffic you want to protect.=20
>=20
> Imagine you have* : =20
>=20
> Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =E2=80=94 GW_A =
(192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - (172.16.2.0/24) =
Network_B
>=20
> With ipsec-tools in Linux you define the following policies to protect =
traffic between both networks with a tunnel. Administrators of both =
networks have to configure this in both GW_A and GW_B :
>=20
> spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 any -P out ipsec
>           esp/tunnel/192.168.1.100-192.168.2.100/require;
>=20
> spdadd 172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P in ipsec
>           esp/tunnel/192.168.2.100-192.168.1.100/require;
>=20
> *See the detailed example in Fig. 5 in =
http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html
>=20
> Moreover it has to specify other parameters such as credentials to be =
used to establish IKE SA, cryptographic algorithms etc=E2=80=A6
>=20
>=20
>=20
> What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec policy?
>=20
> Our goal is to automatize the management of IPsec security =
associations so that administrators do not have add those rules in each =
device. The general idea stemmed from the following principle:
>=20
> To establish an IPsec security association you run first IKE to =
negotiate the IPsec SA (control plane). Once it is established some =
parameters are configured in the kernel of the network devices, so they =
can process the IP packets with IPsec before forwarding (data plane). So =
for us, there is a clear separation between these two planes.
>=20
> Additionally, please think that IPsec uses packet filtering (and =
cryptography). In this sense we consider that a NSF can perform this =
task. Thus, some interface as those to be defined in I2NSF may be =
required. Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in the following =
link:
>=20
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Or do you plan to dive in one step further to define the semantics of =
the polices or rules for IPSec? =20
>=20
> If I understand correctly your question I will say the semantics and =
rules for IPsec are already there as shown in the example. Another thing =
to consider is to define through an application a more general rule such =
as =E2=80=9CI want to protect traffic against eavesdropping between =
these two networks" that is finally translated in more specific IPsec =
policies
>=20
> We hope this clarify your doubts. In any case, if you have any other =
question do not hesitate to ask.=20
>=20
> Best Regards.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks, Linda=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin =
Lopez
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM
> To: sdn@irtf.org; i2nsf@ietf.org
> Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez
> Subject: [I2nsf] New update of =
draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>=20
> Dear all:
>=20
> You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking =
(SDN)-based IPsec Flow Protection in this link:
>=20
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.tx=
t
>=20
> We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the =
relationship with I2NSF work.
>=20
> Comments are really welcome.
>=20
> Best Regards.
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of =
Computer Science-University of Murcia
> 30100 Murcia - Spain
> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
> -------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
> Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
> 30100 Murcia - Spain
> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
> -------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sdn mailing list
> sdn@irtf.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn
> =20
> =20
>=20
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Gabriel L=C3=B3pez Mill=C3=A1n
> Departamento de Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Informaci=C3=B3n y las =
Comunicaciones
> University of Murcia
> Spain
> Tel: +34 868888504
> Fax: +34 868884151
> email: gabilm@um.es

-------------------------------------------------------
Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
30100 Murcia - Spain
Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
-------------------------------------------------------





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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Hi,=20

Maybe this work is not really considered in the current agenda. But I
think it is very interesting. Also, I am thinking whether the similar idea
can be used to mange the policies of securing routing protocols. We used
to specify a key table specification for different routing protocols. At
that time, someone mentioned it could be a good idea to use controllers to
deploy keys for routing protocols, so that we don=A1=AFt have to extend IKEv2
to negotiate them.=20

Thoughts?

Cheers

Dacheng

=D4=DA 15-10-23 =C9=CF=CE=E75:54=A3=AC "I2nsf on behalf of Rafa Marin Lopez"
<i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rafa@um.es> =D0=B4=C8=EB:

>Hi Linda:
>
>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 22:06, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>>escribi=A8=AE:
>>=20
>> Rafa and Gabi,
>> =20
>> Thank you very much for the explanation. That is very helpful.
>> =20
>> Based on your explanation,  the Capability Layer interface for IPSec
>>has been defined
>
>If you are referring to the YANG model with IPsec then we have a good
>step with draft-wang-ipsecme-ipsec-yang
>
>> but there is need for the Service Layer rules for IPSec. The service
>>layer IPSec rules can be applied to many pairs of IPsec tunnels, so that
>>administrators don=A1=AFt need to manually setup each one. Is my
>>understanding correct?
>
>Right, that is also our understanding.
>
>> =20
>> Is it true that the IKE policies can be utilized between Security
>>Controller and Client for the Service Layer interface?
>
>Yes, that might be a possibility, though we understand a deeper analysis
>is required.
>
>Best Regards.
>
>> =20
>> Thanks, Linda
>> =20
>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel Lopez
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:32 AM
>> To: Rafa Marin Lopez
>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; sdn@irtf.org; Alejandro Abad UM; Linda Dunbar
>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of
>>draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>> =20
>> =20
>> Hi,
>> =20
>> Thanks for the review.
>> =20
>> Please, note that the draft also include IKE policies.
>> =20
>> As described in Rafa=A1=AFs response, IKE allows two peers to dynamically
>>negotiate the cryptography material for IPSec in a secure way.
>> An example of IKE policies could be:
>> =20
>> ike {
>>             proposal proposal-1 {
>>                         authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
>>                         dh-group group1;
>>                         authentication-algorithm sha1;
>>                         encryption-algorithm 3des-cbc;
>>                         lifetime-seconds 1000;
>>             }
>>             proposal proposal-2 {
>>                         authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
>>                         dh-group group2;
>>                         authentication-algorithm md5;
>>                         encryption-algorithm des-cbc;
>>                         lifetime-seconds 10000;
>> }
>> =20
>> Best regards, Gabi.
>> =20
>> =20
>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 10:19, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es> escribi=A8=AE:
>> =20
>> Dear Linda:
>>=20
>> First of all, thanks for commenting on our draft.
>>=20
>>=20
>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>>escribi=A8=AE:
>>=20
>> Rafa,=20
>>=20
>> Thank you very much for sharing the draft.
>>=20
>> Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to
>>"SDN Controller=A1=B1?
>> I am not an expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not
>>correct:  if client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply
>>establish two parallel IPSec tunnels?
>>=20
>> Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try to clarify. When you
>>want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you have to configure
>>rules/policies to determine what kind of traffic you want to protect.
>>=20
>> Imagine you have* :
>>=20
>> Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =A1=AA GW_A
>>(192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - (172.16.2.0/24)
>>Network_B
>>=20
>> With ipsec-tools in Linux you define the following policies to protect
>>traffic between both networks with a tunnel. Administrators of both
>>networks have to configure this in both GW_A and GW_B :
>>=20
>> spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 any -P out ipsec
>>           esp/tunnel/192.168.1.100-192.168.2.100/require;
>>=20
>> spdadd 172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P in ipsec
>>           esp/tunnel/192.168.2.100-192.168.1.100/require;
>>=20
>> *See the detailed example in Fig. 5 in
>>http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html
>>=20
>> Moreover it has to specify other parameters such as credentials to be
>>used to establish IKE SA, cryptographic algorithms etc=A1=AD
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec policy?
>>=20
>> Our goal is to automatize the management of IPsec security associations
>>so that administrators do not have add those rules in each device. The
>>general idea stemmed from the following principle:
>>=20
>> To establish an IPsec security association you run first IKE to
>>negotiate the IPsec SA (control plane). Once it is established some
>>parameters are configured in the kernel of the network devices, so they
>>can process the IP packets with IPsec before forwarding (data plane). So
>>for us, there is a clear separation between these two planes.
>>=20
>> Additionally, please think that IPsec uses packet filtering (and
>>cryptography). In this sense we consider that a NSF can perform this
>>task. Thus, some interface as those to be defined in I2NSF may be
>>required. Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in the following link:
>>=20
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Or do you plan to dive in one step further to define the semantics of
>>the polices or rules for IPSec?
>>=20
>> If I understand correctly your question I will say the semantics and
>>rules for IPsec are already there as shown in the example. Another thing
>>to consider is to define through an application a more general rule such
>>as =A1=B0I want to protect traffic against eavesdropping between these two
>>networks" that is finally translated in more specific IPsec policies
>>=20
>> We hope this clarify your doubts. In any case, if you have any other
>>question do not hesitate to ask.
>>=20
>> Best Regards.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks, Linda=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin
>>Lopez
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM
>> To: sdn@irtf.org; i2nsf@ietf.org
>> Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez
>> Subject: [I2nsf] New update of
>>draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>>=20
>> Dear all:
>>=20
>> You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking (SDN)-based
>>IPsec Flow Protection in this link:
>>=20
>>=20
>>https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.t
>>xt
>>=20
>> We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the
>>relationship with I2NSF work.
>>=20
>> Comments are really welcome.
>>=20
>> Best Regards.
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of
>>Computer Science-University of Murcia
>> 30100 Murcia - Spain
>> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
>> Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
>> 30100 Murcia - Spain
>> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sdn mailing list
>> sdn@irtf.org
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn
>> =20
>> =20
>>=20
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Gabriel L=A8=AEpez Mill=A8=A2n
>> Departamento de Ingenier=A8=AAa de la Informaci=A8=AEn y las Comunicaciones
>> University of Murcia
>> Spain
>> Tel: +34 868888504
>> Fax: +34 868884151
>> email: gabilm@um.es
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
>Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
>30100 Murcia - Spain
>Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>I2nsf mailing list
>I2nsf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



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Hi Dacheng,


> El 23 oct 2015, a las 4:20, Dacheng Zhang =
<dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com> escribi=A8=AE:
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Maybe this work is not really considered in the current agenda. But I
> think it is very interesting. Also, I am thinking whether the similar =
idea
> can be used to mange the policies of securing routing protocols.

I=A1=AFm not an expert on security routing protocols, but I think the =
idea es basically the same: to provide key material to the peers =
(router,  ipsec peer, etc.).

> We used
> to specify a key table specification for different routing protocols. =
At
> that time, someone mentioned it could be a good idea to use =
controllers to
> deploy keys for routing protocols, so that we don=A1=AFt have to =
extend IKEv2
> to negotiate them.


>=20
> Thoughts?

It would depend on how routers trust each other. In our example, an =
IPSec peer could be provisioned with cryptographic keys from the =
controller (in the case peers belong to the same domain) or they could =
make use of IKE to dynamically negotiate these keys.

Best regards, Gabi.

>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Dacheng
>=20
> =D4=DA 15-10-23 =C9=CF=CE=E75:54=A3=AC "I2nsf on behalf of Rafa Marin =
Lopez"
> <i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rafa@um.es> =D0=B4=C8=EB:
>=20
>> Hi Linda:
>>=20
>>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 22:06, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>>> escribi=A8=AE:
>>>=20
>>> Rafa and Gabi,
>>>=20
>>> Thank you very much for the explanation. That is very helpful.
>>>=20
>>> Based on your explanation,  the Capability Layer interface for IPSec
>>> has been defined
>>=20
>> If you are referring to the YANG model with IPsec then we have a good
>> step with draft-wang-ipsecme-ipsec-yang
>>=20
>>> but there is need for the Service Layer rules for IPSec. The service
>>> layer IPSec rules can be applied to many pairs of IPsec tunnels, so =
that
>>> administrators don=A1=AFt need to manually setup each one. Is my
>>> understanding correct?
>>=20
>> Right, that is also our understanding.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Is it true that the IKE policies can be utilized between Security
>>> Controller and Client for the Service Layer interface?
>>=20
>> Yes, that might be a possibility, though we understand a deeper =
analysis
>> is required.
>>=20
>> Best Regards.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks, Linda
>>>=20
>>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gabriel =
Lopez
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:32 AM
>>> To: Rafa Marin Lopez
>>> Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; sdn@irtf.org; Alejandro Abad UM; Linda Dunbar
>>> Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of
>>> draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> Thanks for the review.
>>>=20
>>> Please, note that the draft also include IKE policies.
>>>=20
>>> As described in Rafa=A1=AFs response, IKE allows two peers to =
dynamically
>>> negotiate the cryptography material for IPSec in a secure way.
>>> An example of IKE policies could be:
>>>=20
>>> ike {
>>>            proposal proposal-1 {
>>>                        authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
>>>                        dh-group group1;
>>>                        authentication-algorithm sha1;
>>>                        encryption-algorithm 3des-cbc;
>>>                        lifetime-seconds 1000;
>>>            }
>>>            proposal proposal-2 {
>>>                        authentication-method pre-shared-keys;
>>>                        dh-group group2;
>>>                        authentication-algorithm md5;
>>>                        encryption-algorithm des-cbc;
>>>                        lifetime-seconds 10000;
>>> }
>>>=20
>>> Best regards, Gabi.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 10:19, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es> =
escribi=A8=AE:
>>>=20
>>> Dear Linda:
>>>=20
>>> First of all, thanks for commenting on our draft.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
>>> escribi=A8=AE:
>>>=20
>>> Rafa,
>>>=20
>>> Thank you very much for sharing the draft.
>>>=20
>>> Can you elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to
>>> "SDN Controller=A1=B1?
>>> I am not an expert on IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not
>>> correct:  if client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply
>>> establish two parallel IPSec tunnels?
>>>=20
>>> Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try to clarify. When you
>>> want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you have to configure
>>> rules/policies to determine what kind of traffic you want to =
protect.
>>>=20
>>> Imagine you have* :
>>>=20
>>> Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =A1=AA GW_A
>>> (192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - =
(172.16.2.0/24)
>>> Network_B
>>>=20
>>> With ipsec-tools in Linux you define the following policies to =
protect
>>> traffic between both networks with a tunnel. Administrators of both
>>> networks have to configure this in both GW_A and GW_B :
>>>=20
>>> spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 any -P out ipsec
>>>          esp/tunnel/192.168.1.100-192.168.2.100/require;
>>>=20
>>> spdadd 172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P in ipsec
>>>          esp/tunnel/192.168.2.100-192.168.1.100/require;
>>>=20
>>> *See the detailed example in Fig. 5 in
>>> http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html
>>>=20
>>> Moreover it has to specify other parameters such as credentials to =
be
>>> used to establish IKE SA, cryptographic algorithms etc=A1=AD
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec policy?
>>>=20
>>> Our goal is to automatize the management of IPsec security =
associations
>>> so that administrators do not have add those rules in each device. =
The
>>> general idea stemmed from the following principle:
>>>=20
>>> To establish an IPsec security association you run first IKE to
>>> negotiate the IPsec SA (control plane). Once it is established some
>>> parameters are configured in the kernel of the network devices, so =
they
>>> can process the IP packets with IPsec before forwarding (data =
plane). So
>>> for us, there is a clear separation between these two planes.
>>>=20
>>> Additionally, please think that IPsec uses packet filtering (and
>>> cryptography). In this sense we consider that a NSF can perform this
>>> task. Thus, some interface as those to be defined in I2NSF may be
>>> required. Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in the following =
link:
>>>=20
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Or do you plan to dive in one step further to define the semantics =
of
>>> the polices or rules for IPSec?
>>>=20
>>> If I understand correctly your question I will say the semantics and
>>> rules for IPsec are already there as shown in the example. Another =
thing
>>> to consider is to define through an application a more general rule =
such
>>> as =A1=B0I want to protect traffic against eavesdropping between =
these two
>>> networks" that is finally translated in more specific IPsec policies
>>>=20
>>> We hope this clarify your doubts. In any case, if you have any other
>>> question do not hesitate to ask.
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks, Linda
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rafa Marin
>>> Lopez
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM
>>> To: sdn@irtf.org; i2nsf@ietf.org
>>> Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa Marin Lopez
>>> Subject: [I2nsf] New update of
>>> draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
>>>=20
>>> Dear all:
>>>=20
>>> You may find a new update about Software-Defined Networking =
(SDN)-based
>>> IPsec Flow Protection in this link:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection-01.t
>>> xt
>>>=20
>>> We have added some minor modifications and a section to explain the
>>> relationship with I2NSF work.
>>>=20
>>> Comments are really welcome.
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards.
>>>=20
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>>> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of
>>> Computer Science-University of Murcia
>>> 30100 Murcia - Spain
>>> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I2nsf mailing list
>>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>>>=20
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>>> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
>>> Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
>>> 30100 Murcia - Spain
>>> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sdn mailing list
>>> sdn@irtf.org
>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Gabriel L=A8=AEpez Mill=A8=A2n
>>> Departamento de Ingenier=A8=AAa de la Informaci=A8=AEn y las =
Comunicaciones
>>> University of Murcia
>>> Spain
>>> Tel: +34 868888504
>>> Fax: +34 868884151
>>> email: gabilm@um.es
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
>> Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
>> Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
>> 30100 Murcia - Spain
>> Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>=20
>=20



-----------------------------------------------------------
Gabriel L=A8=AEpez Mill=A8=A2n
Departamento de Ingenier=A8=AAa de la Informaci=A8=AEn y las =
Comunicaciones
University of Murcia
Spain
Tel: +34 868888504
Fax: +34 868884151
email: gabilm@um.es <mailto:gabilm@um.es>





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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dgb2312"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi Dacheng,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">El 23 oct 2015, a las 4:20, Dacheng Zhang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com" =
class=3D"">dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com</a>&gt; escribi=A8=AE:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hi, =
<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Maybe this work is not really considered =
in the current agenda. But I<br class=3D"">think it is very interesting. =
Also, I am thinking whether the similar idea<br class=3D"">can be used =
to mange the policies of securing routing protocols. =
</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I=A1=AFm not an =
expert on security routing protocols, but I think the idea es basically =
the same: to provide key material to the peers (router, &nbsp;ipsec =
peer, etc.).&nbsp;</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">We used<br class=3D"">to =
specify a key table specification for different routing protocols. At<br =
class=3D"">that time, someone mentioned it could be a good idea to use =
controllers to<br class=3D"">deploy keys for routing protocols, so that =
we don=A1=AFt have to extend IKEv2<br class=3D"">to negotiate them. <br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thoughts?<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><div>It=
 would depend on how routers trust each other. In our example, an IPSec =
peer could be provisioned with cryptographic keys from the controller =
(in the case peers belong to the same domain) or they could make use of =
IKE to dynamically negotiate these keys.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Best regards, Gabi.</div></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Cheers<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Dacheng<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">=D4=DA 15-10-23 =C9=CF=CE=E75:54=A3=AC "I2nsf =
on behalf of Rafa Marin Lopez"<br class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a =
href=3D"mailto:rafa@um.es" class=3D"">rafa@um.es</a>&gt; =D0=B4=C8=EB:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Hi =
Linda:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">El 22 oct 2015, a las 22:06, Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">escribi=A8=AE:<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">Rafa and Gabi,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thank you very much for the explanation. That is very =
helpful.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Based on your explanation, =
&nbsp;the Capability Layer interface for IPSec<br class=3D"">has been =
defined<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">If you are referring =
to the YANG model with IPsec then we have a good<br class=3D"">step with =
draft-wang-ipsecme-ipsec-yang<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">but there is need for the Service Layer rules =
for IPSec. The service<br class=3D"">layer IPSec rules can be applied to =
many pairs of IPsec tunnels, so that<br class=3D"">administrators don=A1=AF=
t need to manually setup each one. Is my<br class=3D"">understanding =
correct?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">Right, that is also =
our understanding.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Is it true that the IKE policies can be =
utilized between Security<br class=3D"">Controller and Client for the =
Service Layer interface?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">Yes, =
that might be a possibility, though we understand a deeper analysis<br =
class=3D"">is required.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Best Regards.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks, Linda<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">From: I2nsf [<a =
href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Gabriel =
Lopez<br class=3D"">Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:32 AM<br =
class=3D"">To: Rafa Marin Lopez<br class=3D"">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" class=3D"">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:sdn@irtf.org" class=3D"">sdn@irtf.org</a>; Alejandro Abad =
UM; Linda Dunbar<br class=3D"">Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update =
of<br class=3D"">draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi,<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks for the review.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Please, =
note that the draft also include IKE policies.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">As described in Rafa=A1=AFs response, IKE allows two peers to =
dynamically<br class=3D"">negotiate the cryptography material for IPSec =
in a secure way.<br class=3D"">An example of IKE policies could be:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">ike {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;proposal=
 proposal-1 {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;authentica=
tion-method pre-shared-keys;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;dh-group =
group1;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;authentica=
tion-algorithm sha1;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;encryption=
-algorithm 3des-cbc;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;lifetime-s=
econds 1000;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;}<br =
class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;proposal=
 proposal-2 {<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;authentica=
tion-method pre-shared-keys;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;dh-group =
group2;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;authentica=
tion-algorithm md5;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;encryption=
-algorithm des-cbc;<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;lifetime-s=
econds 10000;<br class=3D"">}<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Best regards, =
Gabi.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">El 22 oct 2015, a las =
10:19, Rafa Marin Lopez &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rafa@um.es" =
class=3D"">rafa@um.es</a>&gt; escribi=A8=AE:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Dear Linda:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">First of all, thanks =
for commenting on our draft.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">El 22 oct 2015, a las 0:43, Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" =
class=3D"">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">escribi=A8=AE:<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">Rafa, <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thank you =
very much for sharing the draft.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Can you =
elaborate what kind of IPSec policies that Apps can give to<br =
class=3D"">"SDN Controller=A1=B1?<br class=3D"">I am not an expert on =
IPSec, so pardon me if my question is not<br class=3D"">correct: =
&nbsp;if client needs "protected IPsec traffic", can them simply<br =
class=3D"">establish two parallel IPSec tunnels?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Any question is good. So, thank you. Let me try to clarify. =
When you<br class=3D"">want to establish an IPsec protected tunnel you =
have to configure<br class=3D"">rules/policies to determine what kind of =
traffic you want to protect.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Imagine you =
have* :<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Network A(172.16.1.0/24) =A1=AA =
GW_A<br class=3D"">(192.168.1.100/24)-Internet-(192.168.2.100/24) GW_B - =
(172.16.2.0/24)<br class=3D"">Network_B<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">With =
ipsec-tools in Linux you define the following policies to protect<br =
class=3D"">traffic between both networks with a tunnel. Administrators =
of both<br class=3D"">networks have to configure this in both GW_A and =
GW_B :<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">spdadd 172.16.1.0/24 172.16.2.0/24 =
any -P out ipsec<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;esp/tunnel/192.168.1=
.100-192.168.2.100/require;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">spdadd =
172.16.2.0/24 172.16.1.0/24 any -P in ipsec<br class=3D""> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;esp/tunnel/192.168.2=
.100-192.168.1.100/require;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">*See the =
detailed example in Fig. 5 in<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html" =
class=3D"">http://www.ipsec-howto.org/x304.html</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Moreover it has to specify other parameters such as =
credentials to be<br class=3D"">used to establish IKE SA, cryptographic =
algorithms etc=A1=AD<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">What is your goal? Only to give use cases for IPSec =
policy?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Our goal is to automatize the =
management of IPsec security associations<br class=3D"">so that =
administrators do not have add those rules in each device. The<br =
class=3D"">general idea stemmed from the following principle:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">To establish an IPsec security association you =
run first IKE to<br class=3D"">negotiate the IPsec SA (control plane). =
Once it is established some<br class=3D"">parameters are configured in =
the kernel of the network devices, so they<br class=3D"">can process the =
IP packets with IPsec before forwarding (data plane). So<br class=3D"">for=
 us, there is a clear separation between these two planes.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Additionally, please think that IPsec uses =
packet filtering (and<br class=3D"">cryptography). In this sense we =
consider that a NSF can perform this<br class=3D"">task. Thus, some =
interface as those to be defined in I2NSF may be<br class=3D"">required. =
Btw, you can find a YANG model for ipsec in the following link:<br =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tran-ipecme-yang-ipsec-00<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Or do you plan =
to dive in one step further to define the semantics of<br class=3D"">the =
polices or rules for IPSec?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">If I understand =
correctly your question I will say the semantics and<br class=3D"">rules =
for IPsec are already there as shown in the example. Another thing<br =
class=3D"">to consider is to define through an application a more =
general rule such<br class=3D"">as =A1=B0I want to protect traffic =
against eavesdropping between these two<br class=3D"">networks" that is =
finally translated in more specific IPsec policies<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">We hope this clarify your doubts. In any case, if you have =
any other<br class=3D"">question do not hesitate to ask.<br class=3D""><br=
 class=3D"">Best Regards.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks, Linda <br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-----Original =
Message-----<br class=3D"">From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] =
On Behalf Of Rafa Marin<br class=3D"">Lopez<br class=3D"">Sent: =
Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:15 AM<br class=3D"">To: sdn@irtf.org; =
i2nsf@ietf.org<br class=3D"">Cc: Gabriel Lopez; Alejandro Abad UM; Rafa =
Marin Lopez<br class=3D"">Subject: [I2nsf] New update of<br =
class=3D"">draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Dear all:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">You may find a new =
update about Software-Defined Networking (SDN)-based<br class=3D"">IPsec =
Flow Protection in this link:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-prote=
ction-01.t<br class=3D"">xt<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">We have added =
some minor modifications and a section to explain the<br =
class=3D"">relationship with I2NSF work.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Comments are really welcome.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Best =
Regards.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD<br class=3D"">Dept. Information and =
Communications Engineering (DIIC) Faculty of<br class=3D"">Computer =
Science-University of Murcia<br class=3D"">30100 Murcia - Spain<br =
class=3D"">Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es<br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">I2nsf mailing list<br class=3D"">I2nsf@ietf.org<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD<br class=3D"">Dept. Information and =
Communications Engineering (DIIC)<br class=3D"">Faculty of Computer =
Science-University of Murcia<br class=3D"">30100 Murcia - Spain<br =
class=3D"">Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es<br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">sdn mailing list<br class=3D"">sdn@irtf.org<br =
class=3D"">https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/sdn<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">-----------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Gabriel L=A8=AEpez Mill=A8=A2n<br class=3D"">Departamento de =
Ingenier=A8=AAa de la Informaci=A8=AEn y las Comunicaciones<br =
class=3D"">University of Murcia<br class=3D"">Spain<br class=3D"">Tel: =
+34 868888504<br class=3D"">Fax: +34 868884151<br class=3D"">email: =
gabilm@um.es<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD<br class=3D"">Dept. Information and =
Communications Engineering (DIIC)<br class=3D"">Faculty of Computer =
Science-University of Murcia<br class=3D"">30100 Murcia - Spain<br =
class=3D"">Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:rafa@um.es" class=3D"">rafa@um.es</a><br =
class=3D"">-------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">I2nsf mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org" class=3D"">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">-----------------------------------------------------------<br =
class=3D"">Gabriel L=A8=AEpez Mill=A8=A2n<br class=3D"">Departamento de =
Ingenier=A8=AAa de la Informaci=A8=AEn y las Comunicaciones<br =
class=3D"">University of Murcia<br class=3D"">Spain<br class=3D"">Tel: =
+34 868888504<br class=3D"">Fax: +34 868884151<br =
class=3D"">email:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:gabilm@um.es" =
class=3D"">gabilm@um.es</a><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline" =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [I2nsf] Draft agenda uploaded for I2NSF
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Hi,

Linda and I have put together a draft agenda.
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-i2nsf

We have tried to focus on the immediate deliverables for the working group while
also giving space for other agenda requests that we have received. Our thinking
is that we have made a commitment to deliver some things quite soon and we need
to be sure to make progress on them, but once we know that work is moving, we
can take the time to discuss new drafts.

That means that some of you have not received as much time on the agenda as you
would like. Our recommendation is that you focus on your primary message - don't
run through the details of your draft (we can all read it off line), but try to
sell the idea to us and tell us what input you want from the working group.

Please look at the agenda and let us know if you have any issues.

If you are named as a presenter, please (very big "please") get you slides to
the chairs in good time before the meeting. In practice, this means before the
end of the working day on Sunday 1st so that we can post the slides to the IETF
site. This is both a courtesy to your co-workers in the WG and essential to
ensure that you get the full amount of your slot without wasting time trying to
find slides or swap computers.

If you think you would benefit from the chairs reviewing your slides in advance
then please get them to us even sooner.

Thanks,
Linda and Adrian


From nobody Sat Oct 24 02:44:35 2015
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <i2nsf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Draft agenda uploaded for I2NSF
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That's crazy!

Try https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/agenda/agenda-94-i2nsf

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: 24 October 2015 09:38
> To: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: [I2nsf] Draft agenda uploaded for I2NSF
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Linda and I have put together a draft agenda.
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/minutes/minutes-94-i2nsf
> 
> We have tried to focus on the immediate deliverables for the working group
> while
> also giving space for other agenda requests that we have received. Our
thinking
> is that we have made a commitment to deliver some things quite soon and we
> need
> to be sure to make progress on them, but once we know that work is moving, we
> can take the time to discuss new drafts.
> 
> That means that some of you have not received as much time on the agenda as
> you
> would like. Our recommendation is that you focus on your primary message -
> don't
> run through the details of your draft (we can all read it off line), but try
to
> sell the idea to us and tell us what input you want from the working group.
> 
> Please look at the agenda and let us know if you have any issues.
> 
> If you are named as a presenter, please (very big "please") get you slides to
> the chairs in good time before the meeting. In practice, this means before the
> end of the working day on Sunday 1st so that we can post the slides to the
IETF
> site. This is both a courtesy to your co-workers in the WG and essential to
> ensure that you get the full amount of your slot without wasting time trying
to
> find slides or swap computers.
> 
> If you think you would benefit from the chairs reviewing your slides in
advance
> then please get them to us even sooner.
> 
> Thanks,
> Linda and Adrian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


From nobody Sat Oct 31 08:01:39 2015
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From: Sam Hartman <hartmans@painless-security.com>
To: Gabriel Lopez <gabilm@um.es>
References: <CD8880C6-90B6-4125-BBCE-6AA0B76DA2D7@um.es> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D71571@dfweml701-chm> <89725C38-5C24-44B2-9957-BAD267993F92@um.es> <160732AF-02A9-48FB-BF91-94412A1688C0@um.es> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D7208A@dfweml701-chm> <BA5091B1-1D84-4A61-ACFC-1332C992E81C@um.es> <D24FB47B.2CEFA%dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com> <F6AE1687-BB0D-4EFB-8606-1A6A0CF18372@um.es>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:45:57 -0400
In-Reply-To: <F6AE1687-BB0D-4EFB-8606-1A6A0CF18372@um.es> (Gabriel Lopez's message of "Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:57:51 +0200")
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Cc: "sdn@irtf.org" <sdn@irtf.org>, mark@painless-security.com, Alejandro Abad UM <alejandroprimitivo.abad@um.es>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, margaret@painless-security.com, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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This does seem interesting even if if beyond the scope of I2NSF.
Are you going to be in Japan?
I will not, but margaret and Mark from Painless Security will be.


From nobody Sat Oct 31 08:01:41 2015
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To: Sam Hartman <hartmans@painless-security.com>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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Hi Sam:

Thanks for your interest in the document.  Unfortunately we won=E2=80=99t =
go this time. In any case we can prepare a call to discuss if you want.=20=


Definitely one of the possible tasks of the security controller may be =
key distribution, which is, in our opinion, very interesting.

Best Regards

> El 23 oct 2015, a las 15:45, Sam Hartman =
<hartmans@painless-security.com> escribi=C3=B3:
>=20
> This does seem interesting even if if beyond the scope of I2NSF.
> Are you going to be in Japan?
> I will not, but margaret and Mark from Painless Security will be.

-------------------------------------------------------
Rafael Marin Lopez, PhD
Dept. Information and Communications Engineering (DIIC)
Faculty of Computer Science-University of Murcia
30100 Murcia - Spain
Telf: +34868888501 Fax: +34868884151 e-mail: rafa@um.es
-------------------------------------------------------





From nobody Sat Oct 31 08:01:42 2015
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:42:17 +0800
From: "Dacheng Zhang" <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
To: Sam Hartman <hartmans@painless-security.com>, Gabriel Lopez <gabilm@um.es>, Mingui Zhang <zhangmingui@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
References: <CD8880C6-90B6-4125-BBCE-6AA0B76DA2D7@um.es> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D71571@dfweml701-chm> <89725C38-5C24-44B2-9957-BAD267993F92@um.es> <160732AF-02A9-48FB-BF91-94412A1688C0@um.es> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657D7208A@dfweml701-chm> <BA5091B1-1D84-4A61-ACFC-1332C992E81C@um.es> <D24FB47B.2CEFA%dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com> <F6AE1687-BB0D-4EFB-8606-1A6A0CF18372@um.es> <tslr3kllmui.fsf@mit.edu>
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Cc: "sdn@irtf.org" <sdn@irtf.org>, mark@painless-security.com, Alejandro Abad UM <alejandroprimitivo.abad@um.es>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, margaret@painless-security.com, Rafa Marin Lopez <rafa@um.es>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Sdn] New update of draft-abad-sdnrg-sdn-ipsec-flow-protection
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I will not go to Japan this time. But I plan to attend the next IETF
meeting. Linda plans to visit China before the meeting=A3=AC so I will try to
get a chance to discuss with her about this. I think my friends from
Huawei may be also interested in this topic. ^_^

=D4=DA 15-10-23 =CF=C2=CE=E79:45=A3=AC "Sam Hartman" <hartmans@painless-security.com> =D0=B4=C8=EB:

>This does seem interesting even if if beyond the scope of I2NSF.
>Are you going to be in Japan?
>I will not, but margaret and Mark from Painless Security will be.



From nobody Sat Oct 31 20:55:35 2015
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Subject: [I2nsf] FW: NomCom 2015 - Second Request for feedback
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Please!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: IETF-Announce [mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
> NomCom Chair 2015
> Sent: 01 November 2015 03:08
> To: IETF Announcement List
> Cc: ietf@ietf.org
> Subject: NomCom 2015 - Second Request for feedback
>=20
> The 2015-16 Nominating Committee has collected a list of willing
> candidates for the positions outlined below.  You can see the list
> at:   https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2015/feedback/
>=20
> You may provide feedback using the web form there; it is secure.
> All feedback goes into the datatracker using asymmetric encryption,
> which is decrypted by the nomcom members as they read it.  So your
> feedback can not be seen by the secretariat, the tools people, or any =
of the
> management.
>=20
> Your feedback through the web form is not anonymous as you need a =
login to
> provide it.
>=20
> You may also provide feedback by emailing nomcom15@ietf.org, which =
enters
> the same system through email; it is as non-anonymous as email is, but =
I do have
> to sort it out.  A separate email per candidate is easier to deal =
with.
>=20
> If you want to give truly anonymous feedback, please contact one of =
the
> NomCom members that you trust directly, and ask him/her to relay the
> feedback anonymously to the NomCom.
>=20
> Here in Yokohama, you can find Nomcom members by looking for the =
orange
> dots.
>=20
> We are also accessible in room 314 at the Yokohama Nomcom office =
hours:
>=20
> - Tuesday at 12:45
> - Wednesday at 13:30
>=20
> Feedback is more useful to us the earlier it comes, since we can ask
> the candidates about issues raised in feedback if we have it this =
week.
>=20
> The positions to be filled are those currently held by:
>=20
> IAB
> - Mary Barnes
> - Joe Hildebrand
> - Ted Hardie
> - Erik Nordmark
> - Brian Trammell
> - Marc Blanchet
>=20
> IESG
> - Alissa Cooper (ART)
> - Barry Leiba (ART)
> - Brian Haberman (Internet) (*)
> - Benoit Claise (Operations and Management)
> - Alia Atlas (Routing)
> - Kathleen Moriarty (Security)
> - Martin Stiemerling (Transport) (*)
>=20
> Harald Alvestrand, Nomcom chair 2015
> nomcom-chair-2015@ietf.org, hta+nomcom@alvestrand.no

