From nobody Mon Feb 1 10:11:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620DD1B338C for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 10:11:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VHoBerQ2ivVM for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 10:11:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E3B51B337F for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 10:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CDT21733; Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:11:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.130) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:11:08 +0000 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml703-chm ([10.193.5.130]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 10:11:03 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: Luyuan Fang , "Deepak Bansal (AZURE)" , "i2nsf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Questions about draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-00 Thread-Index: AdFdG+jpAtHUDxDDRN6BiEFecG4CWg== Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:11:03 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448@dfweml701-chm> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.190] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448dfweml701chm_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.56AF9FBD.00E7, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6bf739ead7c0a92fe70aee82b340f928 Archived-At: Subject: [I2nsf] Questions about draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-00 X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:11:14 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448dfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lu Yuan and Deepak, Some questions on your draft: Section 2 (Problem Statement): - DDoS attacks are usually to hosts, servers, etc. What are include= d in the DDoS attacks to "Pipe"? Your draft mentioned "consuming the bandw= idth" by unwanted traffic? What else? - Your draft stated that "today, exchange of DDoS attack information= and mitigation among providers is largely manual". Can you elaborate some = details of those "manually exchanged DDoS attack information"? Those detai= led information can help the WG to derive the appropriate information/data = model. - What does "saturation resistance" mean? What is the definition of= "DDoS absorption resilience of the link"? - Section 3: - Page 6: the DDoS Protection Types listed are mostly for hosts (end= stations). Most pipes between providers have aggregated traffic, so router= s on both side of the pipes don't normally see the "TCP flood rate, UDP flo= od rate, TCP SYN.ACK/RST, etc" - BGP Signaling & Mitigation mentioned in Section 3. Are you advocat= ing to use BGP as a way to dispatch the polices to routers on both sides of= the pipes and to monitor the traffic through the pipes"? Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448dfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lu Yuan and Deepak,

 

Some questions on your draft:

 

Section 2 (Problem Statement):

-    &nb= sp;   DDoS attacks are usually = to hosts, servers, etc. What are included in the DDoS attacks to "Pip= e"? Your draft mentioned  “consuming the bandwidth” b= y unwanted traffic? What else?

-    &nb= sp;   Your draft stated that “today, exchang= e of DDoS attack information and mitigation among providers is largely manu= al”. Can you elaborate some details of those “manually exchange= d DDoS attack information”?  Those detailed information can help the WG to derive the appropriate information/data model.

-    &nb= sp;   What does “saturation resistance”= ; mean?  What is the definition of “DDoS absorption resilience o= f the link”?

-    &nb= sp;    

 

 

Section 3:

-    &nb= sp;   Page 6: the= DDoS Protection Types listed are mostly for hosts (end stations). Most pip= es between providers have aggregated traffic, so routers on both side of th= e pipes don’t normally see the “TCP flood rate, UDP flood rate, TCP SYN.ACK/RST, etc”<= /p>

 

-    &nb= sp;   BGP Signaling & Mitigation mentioned in = Section 3. Are you advocating to use BGP as a way to dispatch the polices t= o routers on both sides of the pipes and to monitor the traffic through the= pipes”?

 

Thank you very much= .

 

Linda Dunbar

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448dfweml701chm_-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 01:23:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE401A874F for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 01:23:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1S8sw9PPnkFb for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 01:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24A271A874E for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 01:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u139NdbT027188 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 09:23:39 GMT Received: from 950129200 (genkt-058-170.t-mobile.co.uk [149.254.58.170]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u139NZ7P027178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 09:23:38 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 09:23:34 -0000 Message-ID: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdFeY9vcqOVxEI4sTjOglk1BlYJxmg== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.0.0.1202-22108.005 X-TM-AS-Result: No--6.392-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--6.392-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 7d5RbLo6l6u5qJcHKhN0j3uzDvI75j0sBdebOqawiLsUnhXZChKvF9Mh aDQ/68gYZzYmwg97TtDzuIYRragFspIOhgOZiPMsKWuiyZLRI4Dj5lyuq8IOQajWq6hWWo1IcL0 DJV0JAiGy/RCkKxdnyM1E3diMVEkwAWDNA+xV8d6ZroPNdqiG88TWPtwOUvyqlSFPfwjN9pE7ba sRrCjEPjyJc39o2Uru4DKmeL1iGnz6+7mjV+YfuZ4CIKY/Hg3AtOt1ofVlaoKYGUPdON1eXvoLR 4+zsDTtjoczmuoPCq0r3b/eKDqFe9OCxQGoymiWlCq7ka74jBmQXJIL33ib0Ci7nKfYyWP6 Archived-At: Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 09:23:45 -0000 Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the author-count issue. WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the Framework. I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion that is needed. I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising from Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption. Please ask if anything is not clear. Thanks, Adrian -- Buy your Valentine a book! Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924 Or buy from me direct. From nobody Wed Feb 3 05:54:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietf.org Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8768D1B326C; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:24:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203032443.432.94013.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 19:24:43 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 05:54:18 -0800 Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: [I2nsf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2nsf-gap-analysis-00.txt X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 03:24:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interface to Network Security Functions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Analysis of Existing work for I2NSF Authors : Susan Hares Bob Moskowitz Dacheng Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-i2nsf-gap-analysis-00.txt Pages : 44 Date : 2016-02-02 Abstract: This document analyzes the status of the arts in industries and the existing IETF work/protocols that are relevant to the Interface to Network Security Function (I2NSF). The I2NSF focus is to define data models and interfaces in order to control and monitor the physical and virtual aspects of network security functions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2nsf-gap-analysis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2nsf-gap-analysis-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Feb 3 05:54:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietf.org Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3A11B32F3; Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:45:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203034551.13861.90610.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 19:45:51 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 05:54:20 -0800 Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: [I2nsf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-i2nsf-problem-and-use-cases-00.txt X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 03:45:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Interface to Network Security Functions Working Group of the IETF. Title : I2NSF Problem Statement and Use cases Authors : Susan Hares Linda Dunbar Diego R. Lopex Myo Zarny Christian Jacquenet Filename : draft-ietf-i2nsf-problem-and-use-cases-00.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2016-02-02 Abstract: This document describes the problem statement for Interface to Network Security Functions (I2NSF) and summary of the I2NSF use cases. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2nsf-problem-and-use-cases/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i2nsf-problem-and-use-cases-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Feb 3 05:57:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 106031AC445 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 05:57:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.258 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.258 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.793, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ZijyZA0-a-D for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 05:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (unknown [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 217F21AC435 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 05:57:20 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.30; From: "Susan Hares" To: , References: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:57:03 -0500 Message-ID: <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJg9PXoqaMOiE5ibahnVNySl0TNtp37Kvog Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:57:25 -0000 Adrian: I'm going to dive into fixing the comments for these drafts now that Are we still considering a separate terminology draft? Terminology was one of the issues people mentioned. Sue -----Original Message----- From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 AM To: i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the author-count issue. WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the Framework. I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion that is needed. I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising from Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption. Please ask if anything is not clear. Thanks, Adrian -- Buy your Valentine a book! Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924 Or buy from me direct. _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:31:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F321ACE35 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:31:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6aoTNEBaT2wn for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:31:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x229.google.com (mail-lf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE31F1ACDFF for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id j78so16329915lfb.1 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 07:31:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6allDcS6Rm27hwpIRe8MsrD48ug1BbPt6Ba12aIqRgs=; b=Ztqia4amnzCvqaj0630t3n3EdB6IFXLTfmyCqXtAq5L0OaAkmUHQI/SAHKm8XBnQ+l FjnXYpDvssUiLyXQf4HRi6vJbRgHLTNZsnQfcDDLnOI0DrnO60gVPLmMHKBuKAXBd3/R tYXNniEltJfEKm6NdphONsklIcSuev052KYBqky0m5AXKmpM+h4yvupXRiqOCBEhuSe+ 1j+yAfx1i/1+/bO02Bluwdl3ciJ/hJ8NidALPQbhWY3mZZ+xHXjbKjNIeN81bmB4Po3i Ts0VQonQ8oGM2aR7YBlVCbMVZ4FYmNhCGmWdNpgdivjHz8QRZpHeA/sHNEbA2KFcsSeh l4sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6allDcS6Rm27hwpIRe8MsrD48ug1BbPt6Ba12aIqRgs=; b=fzjEdLUE3YHmQNX0QEqMkiFj+5EQ/+lQ/uXwUiARW1hFFrqiqF6FK7yKptoD0uEUy3 e3kId6LVShq8ybW4VfVr7WWME0i3hBEbD+eKHTdDbPG+qLaZ4UGGBolDWbsNtK2iOFbN WNV8vXjSJIgmSxPQn2TtTzFoebiLDp09kjehPGZnSnAVe/A5Yb4Knsb8dsRdA1y9VuZY fcstLiAVgXXRGb6GDxgVHRm/DpZ+WLl6lYM8BmJ9rXUu77nasvgrPAXOAEIleSTgA2wH m7AZGH1gDHm17szCpaYdV96IGeiHzVoRHSQeRbVFmREqaEUGVFqFdH0t+8OB5pBYVS/w tiDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSvIr/atZUILGdlG5enr9AA8qk9c+u8XDs8dBp+CDGj9ho3lCptyRrkdP8zztNkBH+DBkLmILdqxsCEcA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.156.198 with SMTP id f189mr1133324lfe.70.1454513464008; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 07:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.21.217 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:31:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> References: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:31:03 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Strassner To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114114c257e994052adf4e79 Archived-At: Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, Adrian Farrel Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:31:08 -0000 --001a114114c257e994052adf4e79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I hope that we will have a terminology draft. I've written 4 of 6 posts on the SOAF proposal; one of the reasons I did so was because I felt that "subject" (for example) was an overloaded term (since it had previous usage in policy management). For the record, I would be happy to contribute to a terminology draft. regards, John On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > Adrian: > > I'm going to dive into fixing the comments for these drafts now that Are > we still considering a separate terminology draft? Terminology was one of > the issues people mentioned. > > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 AM > To: i2nsf@ietf.org > Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts > > Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the > author-count issue. > > WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a > little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the Framework. > > I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the > poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion that > is needed. > I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising from > Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption. > > Please ask if anything is not clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian > -- > Buy your Valentine a book! > Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales > http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924 > Or buy from me direct. > > > > _______________________________________________ > I2nsf mailing list > I2nsf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf > > _______________________________________________ > I2nsf mailing list > I2nsf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf > -- regards, John --001a114114c257e994052adf4e79 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I hope that we will have a terminology draft. I'v= e written 4 of 6 posts on the SOAF proposal; one of the reasons I did so wa= s because I felt that "subject" (for example) was an overloaded t= erm (since it had previous usage in policy management).

For the record, I would be happy to contribute to a terminology draft= .


regards,
John

On Wed, Feb 3, = 2016 at 5:57 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
Adrian:

I'm going to dive into fixing the comments for these drafts now that=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Are
we still considering a separate terminology draft?=C2=A0 Terminology was on= e of
the issues people mentioned.

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts

Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the author-count issue.

WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to bui= ld a
little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the Framework.
I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion that=
is needed.
I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising from=
Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption.

Please ask if anything is not clear.

Thanks,
Adrian
--
Buy your Valentine a book!
Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales
http://www.feedaread.com/books/= Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adr= ian-Farrel/dp/1786100924
Or buy from me direct.



_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf

_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



--
regards,
John
--001a114114c257e994052adf4e79-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:45:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9352C1ACE9D for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:45:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.257 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.257 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IobZj0pP6E6J for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (unknown [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A4101ACE61 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:45:15 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.30; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'John Strassner'" References: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:44:58 -0500 Message-ID: <025701d15e99$d6a50040$83ef00c0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0258_01D15E6F.EDD0CD00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJg9PXoqaMOiE5ibahnVNySl0TNtgKrUULeAjDdiqmd1GgYwA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, 'Adrian Farrel' Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:45:19 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0258_01D15E6F.EDD0CD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John:=20 =20 Let=E2=80=99s collaborate. Perhaps you can send me ideas and = I=E2=80=99ll put them in a document.=20 =20 Sue=20 =20 From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Strassner Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 10:31 AM To: Susan Hares Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; Adrian Farrel Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts =20 I hope that we will have a terminology draft. I've written 4 of 6 posts = on the SOAF proposal; one of the reasons I did so was because I felt = that "subject" (for example) was an overloaded term (since it had = previous usage in policy management). =20 For the record, I would be happy to contribute to a terminology draft. =20 =20 regards, John =20 On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Susan Hares wrote: Adrian: I'm going to dive into fixing the comments for these drafts now that = Are we still considering a separate terminology draft? Terminology was one = of the issues people mentioned. Sue -----Original Message----- From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 AM To: i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the author-count issue. WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the = Framework. I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion = that is needed. I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising = from Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption. Please ask if anything is not clear. Thanks, Adrian -- Buy your Valentine a book! Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924 Or buy from me direct. _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf --=20 regards, John ------=_NextPart_000_0258_01D15E6F.EDD0CD00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John:

 

Let=E2=80=99s collaborate.=C2=A0 Perhaps you can send me ideas and = I=E2=80=99ll put them in a document.

 

Sue

 

From:= = I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John = Strassner
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 10:31 = AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; Adrian = Farrel
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG = drafts

 

I = hope that we will have a terminology draft. I've written 4 of 6 posts on = the SOAF proposal; one of the reasons I did so was because I felt that = "subject" (for example) was an overloaded term (since it had = previous usage in policy management).

 

For the record, I would be happy to contribute to a = terminology draft.

 

 

regards,

John

 

On Wed, = Feb 3, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

Adrian:

I'm going to dive into fixing the = comments for these drafts now that   Are
we still = considering a separate terminology draft?  Terminology was one = of
the issues people mentioned.

Sue

-----Original = Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 = AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] = First WG drafts

Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts = and for sorting out the
author-count issue.

WG, it's great = that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a
little = momentum with these and our next milestone which is the = Framework.

I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were = received during the
poll, so it would be good to work on these with = any on-list discussion that
is needed.
I also think that the = Framework draft has some actions needed (arising from
Yokohama) to = get it ready for adoption.

Please ask if anything is not = clear.

Thanks,
Adrian
--
Buy your Valentine a = book!
Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales
http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781= 786100924.aspx
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/178= 6100924
Or buy from me = direct.



_______________________________________________I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf

= _______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing = list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf




-- =

regards,

John

------=_NextPart_000_0258_01D15E6F.EDD0CD00-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 07:48:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAADF1ACE96 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:48:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cUQ-ACI0DToA for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x22b.google.com (mail-lf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 541DC1ACE58 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l143so16684406lfe.2 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vPvnbfJ0EBraur+82/CW/2+1HE4F2PRoQC/FdROltuc=; b=fQLc2EpMX+fmCfXiBMEf+xR49ZYYB+4N9vorjRFJXxiS2u9cegIzkzhRJtnXqv84Bm W7zXPpq85b7wkwPqBJRjwY89Wa+iYRKBNqNN9E7WoZZdB3SeweLOKUzLltI2SeMxbti4 yeX8sxirfjlaSZ7Sqw6AjJSupV8Rq4Gay/zPS5PAYIMBa57TDRYDYXfgCyFJfAsxqeZT BjH0GbzNzerSutF2Ctsmi08OkmmAA2rAn3UdxbB8b+U3EdP49McXRUlBJjCYAeoXa6dS HngK/jKd32XjHrtoUxJU5GoWNgBqnjTPbf0j6EU8XfRlfDqZ6384+GfRr3ypRylBMK6E oNZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vPvnbfJ0EBraur+82/CW/2+1HE4F2PRoQC/FdROltuc=; b=cb3cGHk0AQJ7KEfEDU9p/04QrpLtA5h1sPpw7h+4as6iEQ/qKLWtsXKfZoF4PfIW0g FFNbvwt1p3V5cAJGtUQsgWC9jQKaNNRFC3mFCFacxgEsgoXowIpF8mxxICs9JsmaRxTq TXdBVqYWLAaEXDO7X9PIQkxn+ZUdiiQRQVF/guscb3m0wemMoU+52vm5N+tU0QK4oYLo 0Xlhs/jBVw1QEgdYNlwCivKS/AduON8Z3KEmgWzHAHRvFNj8MTBnZrMblqKQiJcI8Mgh qXJyuMvykyejOtPOwbBd6IQC0LsVehsRa5qosUtiGeJAl40shhSVBmSv5Od48tZORkdG j8bA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSw2lo6uCp8YEXohUq+Y4FgsjizPFNeEcuhvt4qUVdN9PluzsjCYs0fLdRG4IkjKwOYoazkUWPrvZbs8A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.156.198 with SMTP id f189mr1174252lfe.70.1454514519588; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 07:48:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.21.217 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:48:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <025701d15e99$d6a50040$83ef00c0$@ndzh.com> References: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> <025701d15e99$d6a50040$83ef00c0$@ndzh.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 07:48:39 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Strassner To: Susan Hares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114114c242c6bc052adf8d79 Archived-At: Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, Adrian Farrel Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 15:48:44 -0000 --001a114114c242c6bc052adf8d79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sure, love to. Currently at the TMF meetings in Portugal; please give me a week... regards, John On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > John: > > > > Let=E2=80=99s collaborate. Perhaps you can send me ideas and I=E2=80=99l= l put them in a > document. > > > > Sue > > > > *From:* I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *John > Strassner > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 03, 2016 10:31 AM > *To:* Susan Hares > *Cc:* i2nsf@ietf.org; Adrian Farrel > *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts > > > > I hope that we will have a terminology draft. I've written 4 of 6 posts o= n > the SOAF proposal; one of the reasons I did so was because I felt that > "subject" (for example) was an overloaded term (since it had previous usa= ge > in policy management). > > > > For the record, I would be happy to contribute to a terminology draft. > > > > > > regards, > > John > > > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Susan Hares wrote: > > Adrian: > > I'm going to dive into fixing the comments for these drafts now that Ar= e > we still considering a separate terminology draft? Terminology was one o= f > the issues people mentioned. > > Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 AM > To: i2nsf@ietf.org > Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts > > Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the > author-count issue. > > WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a > little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the Framework. > > I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the > poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion th= at > is needed. > I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising fr= om > Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption. > > Please ask if anything is not clear. > > Thanks, > Adrian > -- > Buy your Valentine a book! > Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales > http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924 > Or buy from me direct. > > > > _______________________________________________ > I2nsf mailing list > I2nsf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf > > _______________________________________________ > I2nsf mailing list > I2nsf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf > > > > > -- > > regards, > > John > --=20 regards, John --001a114114c242c6bc052adf8d79 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sure, love to.
Currently at the TMF meeting= s in Portugal; please give me a week...

regards,
John

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Susan Hares <<= a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com>= wrote:

John:

=C2=A0

Let=E2=80=99s collaborate.=C2=A0 Perhaps y= ou can send me ideas and I=E2=80=99ll put them in a document.

= =C2=A0

Sue

=C2=A0

From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = John Strassner
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 10:31 AMTo: Susan Hares
Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org; Adrian Farrel
Subject: Re: [I2= nsf] First WG drafts

= =C2=A0

I hope that we will have = a terminology draft. I've written 4 of 6 posts on the SOAF proposal; on= e of the reasons I did so was because I felt that "subject" (for = example) was an overloaded term (since it had previous usage in policy mana= gement).

=C2=A0

For the record, I would be happy= to contribute to a terminology draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

regards,<= /u>

John

=

=C2=A0

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:=

Adrian:

I'm going to dive into fixing= the comments for these drafts now that=C2=A0 =C2=A0Are
we still conside= ring a separate terminology draft?=C2=A0 Terminology was one of
the issu= es people mentioned.

Sue

-----Original Message-----
From: = I2nsf [mailto:i= 2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Wednesday, F= ebruary 03, 2016 4:24 AM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts

Than= ks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the
aut= hor-count issue.

WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-= Ds. Let's try to build a
little momentum with these and our next mil= estone which is the Framework.

I think some comments about the two n= ew WG I-Ds were received during the
poll, so it would be good to work on= these with any on-list discussion that
is needed.
I also think that = the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising from
Yokohama) to g= et it ready for adoption.

Please ask if anything is not clear.
Thanks,
Adrian
--
Buy your Valentine a book!
Tales from the W= ood - Eighteen new fairy tales
http://www.feeda= read.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924
O= r buy from me direct.



______________________________________= _________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2ns= f

_______________________________________________
I2nsf maili= ng list
I2nsf@ietf.o= rg
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf

<= /div>




--

=

regards,

John




--
regards,
John
--001a114114c242c6bc052adf8d79-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 08:17:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietf.org Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE1321AD34E for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:17:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203161743.15656.3900.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 08:17:43 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [I2nsf] Milestones changed for i2nsf WG X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:17:43 -0000 Changed milestone "Adopt use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis as WG document", set due date to January 2016 from November 2015, resolved as "Done", added draft-ietf-i2nsf-problem-and-use-cases to milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/i2nsf/charter/ From nobody Wed Feb 3 08:18:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietf.org Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B4F1AD34F for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:18:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160203161832.11506.2377.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 08:18:32 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [I2nsf] Milestones changed for i2nsf WG X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 16:18:32 -0000 Changed milestone "Adopt use Cases, problem statement, and gap analysis as WG document", added draft-ietf-i2nsf-gap-analysis to milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/i2nsf/charter/ From nobody Wed Feb 3 17:14:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0921B37D7 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 17:14:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.087 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VQuXmUP5CdZL for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 17:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 053B51B37D2 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 17:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CIA47007; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 01:14:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML705-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.168) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 01:14:16 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.70) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 01:14:15 +0000 Received: from SZXEMA502-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.185]) by szxema411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:14:02 +0800 From: "Xialiang (Frank)" To: Susan Hares Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] First WG drafts Thread-Index: AdFeY9vcqOVxEI4sTjOglk1BlYJxmv//x7CA//69gpA= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 01:14:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.135.43.91] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0201.56B2A5EA.000C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.185, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 65d8fb7f6d5f29f2116646d127909900 Archived-At: Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Linda Dunbar Subject: [I2nsf] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEZpcnN0IFdHIGRyYWZ0cw==?= X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" 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boundary="_000_8F9B987B289B4A9889AE8953115620AEtelefonicacom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Feb 2016 12:34:47.2370 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9744600e-3e04-492e-baa1-25ec245c6f10 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR06MB0623 X-OriginatorOrg: telefonica.com X-TM-AS-MML: No Archived-At: Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , Linda Dunbar Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 12:34:57 -0000 --_000_8F9B987B289B4A9889AE8953115620AEtelefonicacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Q291bnQgb24gbWUgYXMgd2VsbOKApg0KDQpPbiA0IEZlYiAyMDE2LCBhdCAwMjoxNCAsIFhpYWxp 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uoyiq4aE3Hex for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:16:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (unknown [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 992211A0019 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:16:46 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=74.43.47.30; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Xialiang \(Frank\)'" References: <007f01d15e64$90ca1b80$b25e5280$@olddog.co.uk> <01f301d15e8a$c367c2b0$4a374810$@ndzh.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 12:16:24 -0500 Message-ID: <052201d15f6f$c6e85ae0$54b910a0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJg9PXoqaMOiE5ibahnVNySl0TNtgKrUULeAgeK4d+d116twA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Linda Dunbar' Subject: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:16:49 -0000 Frank: I'm glad to include you in this work.=20 Sue=20 -----Original Message----- From: Xialiang (Frank) [mailto:frank.xialiang@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 8:14 PM To: Susan Hares Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; i2nsf@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [I2nsf] First WG drafts Hi Sue, I think the terminology draft is very essential for the other I2NSF = drafts for clarifying some concepts and puzzles. I am willing to contribute to = the draft. B.R. Frank -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED = Susan Hares =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2016=C4=EA2=D4=C23=C8=D5 21:57 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: adrian@olddog.co.uk; i2nsf@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [I2nsf] First WG drafts Adrian:=20 I'm going to dive into fixing the comments for these drafts now that = Are we still considering a separate terminology draft? Terminology was one = of the issues people mentioned.=20 Sue=20 -----Original Message----- From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 4:24 AM To: i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: [I2nsf] First WG drafts Thanks, Sue, for posting our first two WG drafts and for sorting out the author-count issue. WG, it's great that we have our first two WG I-Ds. Let's try to build a little momentum with these and our next milestone which is the = Framework. I think some comments about the two new WG I-Ds were received during the poll, so it would be good to work on these with any on-list discussion = that is needed. I also think that the Framework draft has some actions needed (arising = from Yokohama) to get it ready for adoption. Please ask if anything is not clear. Thanks, Adrian -- Buy your Valentine a book! Tales from the Wood - Eighteen new fairy tales http://www.feedaread.com/books/Tales-from-the-Wood-9781786100924.aspx http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-Wood-Adrian-Farrel/dp/1786100924 Or buy from me direct. _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf From nobody Thu Feb 4 13:18:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0263E1B29BC for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 13:18:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RAfQly3iXFW5 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 13:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40A881B29BA for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 13:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CIB70160; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:18:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML708-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.202) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 21:18:12 +0000 Received: from DFWEML705-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.142) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.202) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 21:18:12 +0000 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml705-chm ([10.193.5.142]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 13:17:55 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA Thread-Topic: Questions & suggstions to draft-pastor-i2nsf-vnsf-attestation-00 Thread-Index: AdFa6dZPY3cOkGxTRvK10yqlMgLXcgAAX9GAASg8JfA= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 21:17:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE73C3@dfweml701-chm> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE48CA@dfweml701-chm> <0C9F4855-450C-4960-9CB5-1F31DA7E2088@telefonica.com> In-Reply-To: <0C9F4855-450C-4960-9CB5-1F31DA7E2088@telefonica.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.190] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE73C3dfweml701chm_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.56B3C015.0152, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 42d17def2c553352a07960be4ae271f0 Archived-At: Cc: ANTONIO AGUSTIN PASTOR PERALES , "i2nsf@ietf.org" , Futianfu Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Questions & suggstions to draft-pastor-i2nsf-vnsf-attestation-00 X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:18:24 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE73C3dfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGllZ28sDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSB2ZXJ5IG11Y2ggZm9yIHlvdXIgZXhwbGFuYXRpb24gb2YgdGhl IHF1ZXN0aW9ucy4NCg0KQSBmZXcgbW9yZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMuDQoNClRoZSBUcnVzdGVkIENvbXB1 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(using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE5A91A92BD for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1506g6i023885 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 00:06:42 GMT Received: from 950129200 (genkt-051-236.t-mobile.co.uk [149.254.51.236]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u1506XT0023735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 00:06:41 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 00:06:29 -0000 Message-ID: <012301d15fa9$17dac4e0$47904ea0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdFfqIip8CTr9SBNQj2JaxL7s0EWIw== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.0.0.1202-22112.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.302-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.302-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: pwKnyhHWd1ck7QoVXCbROGMdYzySsvg878+iNzIXmPNXopZjyO6CZXLu 5dsUmK54oipy9j4ILI9ri5LTnk7sbQzyMxeMEX6wOX/V8P8ail3Yr6U3ZlQkdtmzcdRxL+xwKra uXd3MZDXdCZbbIDfClXJ+KqczHgrU3dGDoa/MEZ4VovpCIy7SXnKn/kEEG7CyNhaOBHxzal2OTC SnRTeg+iPVIUGLlI4nRt01ZrBZr35mO3qi78sNJA== Archived-At: Subject: [I2nsf] Terminology draft X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 00:06:47 -0000 Thanks! Brilliant to have a group of you self-organise to do this. If I have any advice on a terminology draft it is "iterate." Start with just a list of terms and short (incomplete) or even no definitions. Continue with many revisions of the I-D adding clarity as you go. If you delve into too much detail in early revisions you may find that the heat builds in the discussions and the published text gets in the way of refinement. But mainly, do the work! And thanks. Adrian From nobody Thu Feb 4 16:14:48 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C021ACDD0 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:14:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gh33n67KpZ1L for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x234.google.com (mail-lb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B2B31ACD40 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-x234.google.com with SMTP id x4so41580289lbm.0 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:14:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Gm3aOHokTtEM6Oq1T1aK9LSWTOkyAuLk5iwyiv7iMs0=; b=eUw2MK9LHXd3vGu0Z1J+vtvthv/9qOrQSaTbOkykGKPKz8LZq95+6FsMuI7LimDg28 G+qS+Wn4GXB8Iihb0J8ZFtfRRB9HRMyBecOQRvFORnl+ivWj7+unFsDMbOXoABczmN8r ABzyc1Nh1wed+nR3JCYKwonoglK4WokhDv5Sw97LKwT8X0r6IyMCbqlrqKv4Y94AEcen iC6KOUk47CbEZBfZ2AeCH2evxfI2bzqFWEd22tAspiWyf6IAaYody4qE1f9NhLH2yaES JZqGWSI+AYrWHGjU8rkT6IvhfD4mev+Yft6u+EEkY29fBM/vZrq87tBEGq6rRQz82u4Q x08w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Gm3aOHokTtEM6Oq1T1aK9LSWTOkyAuLk5iwyiv7iMs0=; b=U9yNUA6h56o7raHE0M6AlLiDT3bCPH5qk8JFJ7kaHzLMwASjmDV6Ad7+pANr0JvtRH mwPNMUA7nz5RNp7aeS00XwfplItUcDDHvgsyM1Rhxh2YKBlbG36Pnd/v1GksEfeANPDo tuLvQ36fTPTdPANAWSGHzJYxC3NoRotbXYpO2t7oPilPsQw3bZ0mNQjqovuOzLQShZ0c LHJMMINKOidiUF2mN2MV8xV2+mbaei2KovhO0cjQVhYogD+5fJFUz7TkmhOPSq5i6cGM Gg5sGnvAhpvEM4m2nJT6tdo+DHnuwdbz8Eczb59YfODVhmQIcL4VjZ886rVNQpsBa+cB ISoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSkpjdC0yYzCFA6bOuhKB89p8a3ZNcgEIYpkqcPCtT6U2fc6UlyVd/+yW86PVDmfo60MlTlWYwDnP0dGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.130.133 with SMTP id oe5mr3911409lbb.94.1454631282318; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 16:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.21.217 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:14:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <012301d15fa9$17dac4e0$47904ea0$@olddog.co.uk> References: <012301d15fa9$17dac4e0$47904ea0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:14:42 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Strassner To: Adrian Farrel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a8838dca50e052afabc98 Archived-At: Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Terminology draft X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 00:14:47 -0000 --047d7b3a8838dca50e052afabc98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 That is very sage advice, thanks. Sue, I'll shoot over a first list of terms (with no or short definitions) to get this started. I'll probably do this on the flight home on Saturday; holler if you don't see anything by Monday morning. regards, John On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Thanks! Brilliant to have a group of you self-organise to do this. > > If I have any advice on a terminology draft it is "iterate." > > Start with just a list of terms and short (incomplete) or even no > definitions. > Continue with many revisions of the I-D adding clarity as you go. > If you delve into too much detail in early revisions you may find that the > heat > builds in the discussions and the published text gets in the way of > refinement. > > But mainly, do the work! And thanks. > > Adrian > > > _______________________________________________ > I2nsf mailing list > I2nsf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf > -- regards, John --047d7b3a8838dca50e052afabc98 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That is very sage advice, thanks.

Sue, I'll shoot over a first list of terms (with no or short defi= nitions) to get this started. I'll probably do this on the flight home = on Saturday; holler if you don't see anything by Monday morning.
<= div>
regards,
John

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Adrian= Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks! Brilliant to have a group of you self-organise to do = this.

If I have any advice on a terminology draft it is "iterate."

Start with just a list of terms and short (incomplete) or even no definitio= ns.
Continue with many revisions of the I-D adding clarity as you go.
If you delve into too much detail in early revisions you may find that the = heat
builds in the discussions and the published text gets in the way of refinem= ent.

But mainly, do the work! And thanks.

Adrian


_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf



--
regards,
John
--047d7b3a8838dca50e052afabc98-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 09:38:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83361B3323 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:37:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZO3wk-qvk8K2 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 615BC1B32E8 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:37:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CIC91330; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 17:30:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML705-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.142) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:30:48 +0000 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml705-chm ([10.193.5.142]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 5 Feb 2016 09:30:35 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: John Strassner , Adrian Farrel Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Terminology draft Thread-Index: AdFfqIip8CTr9SBNQj2JaxL7s0EWIwARLskAABNKMAA= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 17:30:34 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE7805@dfweml701-chm> References: <012301d15fa9$17dac4e0$47904ea0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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"Deepak Bansal (AZURE)" , "i2nsf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Questions about draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-00 Thread-Index: AdFdG+jpAtHUDxDDRN6BiEFecG4CWgDL0CTA Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 06:27:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448@dfweml701-chm> In-Reply-To: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE5448@dfweml701-chm> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=lufang@microsoft.com; x-originating-ip: [73.254.145.178] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e6502431-53a1-4450-7a0d-08d32f87b09b x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR03MB424; 5:wUN3+mSBIgx7tPNHcSughSR1neJYKYiYliPjfrWX1qLlH0gSgSBPKHdcEodskZnWSqonStAeE/4W0gqrvpn45chGoLyJemUbI6IdT9layFY6Ttsl6CyZU0Qgrz788CT0sLg77VZaNKOC6lKtMgQK7A==; 24:yZeEgOANyG28CYRZi/bSk/9BnaEmkAh2UMQDah7MM98T8NBAU7rcf98P3XN7PAOCR7Vr9dnjh2sBfvQjm3kQ+XttolU2SatuFs6cN/IbuX4= x-microsoft-antispam: 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boundary="_000_BY2PR0301MB06936F64CE86FB90991263D6D6D40BY2PR0301MB0693_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Feb 2016 06:27:01.7097 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR03MB424 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Questions about draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-00 X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 06:27:09 -0000 --_000_BY2PR0301MB06936F64CE86FB90991263D6D6D40BY2PR0301MB0693_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Linda, Thanks for bringing up the discussion. See my answers in-line, marked [LF]. Thanks, Luyuan From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com] Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:11 AM To: Luyuan Fang ; Deepak Bansal (AZURE) ; i2nsf@ietf.org Subject: Questions about draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-0= 0 Lu Yuan and Deepak, Some questions on your draft: Section 2 (Problem Statement): - DDoS attacks are usually to hosts, servers, etc. What are include= d in the DDoS attacks to "Pipe"? Your draft mentioned "consuming the bandw= idth" by unwanted traffic? What else? [LF] The DDoS attack can be targeting the hosts, servers, end-points, gatew= ays, or any devices in between. Regardless of the target, the attack traffi= c flows through the "Pipes"/inter-connection links, and can saturate these = large pipes. Attack volume is the key issue here. DDoS attack BW is increas= ing very fast is the recent years. Attack BW greater than 100G is not uncom= mon any more. The DDoS attack can consume BW, impact multi-region Data Cent= ers and Inter-Cloud connectivity, and interrupt multi-services. Because of = its massive scale, it can also make fast mitigation more challenging. - Your draft stated that "today, exchange of DDoS attack information= and mitigation among providers is largely manual". Can you elaborate some = details of those "manually exchanged DDoS attack information"? Those detailed information can help th= e WG to derive the appropriate information/data model. [LF] By manual, we meant no automation. Manual means someone has to send em= ails, or make phone calls, etc. Basically, it means no signaling, no common= API, no automation across the provider boundaries. - What does "saturation resistance" mean? What is the definition of= "DDoS absorption resilience of the link"? [LF] Saturation resistance means that the attack cannot saturate the connec= tion links and make them unusable. DDoS absorption resilience of the link -= the attack can be absorbed without taking down the network connections and= impact the services. The design to help to achieve the above include: using larger BW links, hav= ing multiple links to the DC, having more peering-points, having redundancy= from all layers, etc. Section 3: - Page 6: the DDoS Protection Types listed are mostly for hosts (end= stations). Most pipes between providers have aggregated traffic, so router= s on both side of the pipes don't normally see the "TCP flood rate, UDP flo= od rate, TCP SYN.ACK/RST, etc" [LF] : See my answer to your first question. Router may not be the attack t= arget, but the attack volume it has to forward can render it useless for ca= rrying legitimate traffic. - BGP Signaling & Mitigation mentioned in Section 3. Are you advocat= ing to use BGP as a way to dispatch the polices to routers on both sides of= the pipes and to monitor the traffic through the pipes"? [LF] : BGP has been used by all providers for ages, it is extensible and we= ll understood, so it is a primary candidate. However, we are open to hear o= ther options too. Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar --_000_BY2PR0301MB06936F64CE86FB90991263D6D6D40BY2PR0301MB0693_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Linda,

 

Thanks for bringing up= the discussion.

See my answers in-line= , marked [LF].

 

Thanks,

Luyuan

 

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawe= i.com]
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:11 AM
To: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>; Deepak Bansal (AZURE) = <dbansal@microsoft.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: Questions about draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigatio= n-api-00

 

Lu Yuan and Deepak,

 

Some questions on your draft:

 

Section 2 (Problem Statement):

-      &nb= sp; DDoS attacks are usually  to hosts, s= ervers, etc. What are included in the DDoS attacks to "Pipe"? You= r draft mentioned  “consuming the bandwidth” by unwanted t= raffic? What else?

 

[LF] The DDoS attack can be targeting the h= osts, servers, end-points, gateways, or any devices in between. Regardless = of the target, the attack traffic flows through the “Pipes”/inter-connection links, and can satu= rate these large pipes. Attack volume is the key issue here. DDoS attack BW= is increasing very fast is the recent years. Attack BW greater than 100G i= s not uncommon any more. The DDoS attack can consume BW, impact multi-region Data Centers and Inter-Cloud connectivity,= and interrupt multi-services. Because of its massive scale, it can also ma= ke fast mitigation more challenging.

 

-      &nb= sp; Your draft stated that “today, exchang= e of DDoS attack information and mitigation among providers is largely manu= al”. Can you elaborate some details of those “manually

exchanged DDoS attack in= formation”?  Those detailed information can help the WG to deriv= e the appropriate information/data model.

[LF] By manual, we meant no automation. Manual means someone= has to send emails, or make phone calls, etc. Basically, it means no signaling, no common API, no automation across= the provider boundaries.

 

-      &nb= sp; What does “saturation resistance”= ; mean?  What is the definition of “DDoS absorption resilience o= f the link”?

[LF] Saturation resist= ance means that the attack cannot saturate the connection links and make th= em unusable. DDoS absorption resilience of the link – the attack can be absorbed without taking down the net= work connections and impact the services.

The design to help to = achieve the above include: using larger BW links, having multiple links to = the DC, having more peering-points, having redundancy from all layers, etc. 

Section 3:

-      &nb= sp; Page 6: the= DDoS Protection Types listed are mostly for hosts (end stations). Most pip= es between providers have aggregated traffic, so routers on both side of th= e pipes don’t normally see the “TCP flood rate, UDP flood rate, TCP SYN.ACK/RST, etc”<= /p>

[LF] : See my answer to your first question. Router may not be the attack target, = but the attack volume it has to forward can render it useless for carrying = legitimate traffic.

 

-      &nb= sp; BGP Signaling & Mitigation mentioned in = Section 3. Are you advocating to use BGP as a way to dispatch the polices t= o routers on both sides of the pipes and to monitor the traffic through the= pipes”?

[LF] : BGP has been used by all providers for ages, it is extensible and well unde= rstood, so it is a primary candidate. However, we are open to hear other op= tions too.

 

Thank you very much= .

 

Linda Dunbar

 

--_000_BY2PR0301MB06936F64CE86FB90991263D6D6D40BY2PR0301MB0693_-- From nobody Mon Feb 8 14:23:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F171A88DC; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:23:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pkATmEguD62e; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 891941B3423; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CIF99592; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:23:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML706-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.225) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:23:10 +0000 Received: from DFWEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.50]) by dfweml706-chm ([10.193.5.225]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:23:01 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: "'Netconf'" Thread-Topic: What kind of mechanisms have NETCONF specified to prevent illegitimate"Clients" or "Agent"? Thread-Index: AdFiv0TiE9T6VE7/TRiLhiatv3duJw== Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:23:00 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE8236@dfweml701-chm> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.190] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE8236dfweml701chm_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0204.56B9154F.00B3, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 03abb5c2a45dd58e9d41697e3b465cb0 Archived-At: Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" , "mehmet.ersue@nokia.com" Subject: [I2nsf] What kind of mechanisms have NETCONF specified to prevent illegitimate"Clients" or "Agent"? X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:23:21 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE8236dfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NETCONF participants, Your Chair Mehmet suggested sending the following questions to the list. I2NSF has a draft on remote attestation (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-pastor-i2nsf-vnsf-attestation/ ) which documented the following securi= ty threats between Client and Controller. I think those issues also face I= 2RS and NETCONF. Has NETCONF specified some mechanisms to address those iss= ues? o An unknown/unauthorized user can try to impersonate another user that can legitimately access virtualized NSF services (or Network Services)= . This attack may lead to accessing the policies and applications of the attacked user or to generate network traffic outside a the security functions with a falsified identity. o An authorized user may misuse assigned privileges to alter the network traffic processing of other users in the virtualization platform. This can become especially serious when such a user has administration privileges granted by the virtualization provider, the ISP or the local network operator. o A user may try to install malformed elements (policy or application), trying to directly take the control of a NSF or virtualization platform (for example by exploiting a vulnerability on one of the functions or may try to intercept or modify the traffic of other users in the same platform. o A malicious virtualization provider can modify the software running on it (the operating system or a concrete vNSF) to alter the behaviour of the latter. This event has a high impact on all users accessing vNSFs as the virtualization provider has the highest level of privilege on the software in execution. o A user with physical access to the virtualization platform can modify the behavior of hardware components, or the components themselves. Furthermore, it can access a serial console (most devices offer this interface for maintenance reasons) to access the NSF software with the same level of privilege of the virtualization provider Thanks, Linda --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DE8236dfweml701chm_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

NETCONF   participants,

 

Your Chair Mehmet suggested sending the following qu= estions to the list.

 

I2NSF has a draft on remote attestation (http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pastor-i2nsf-vnsf-attestation/ ) whi= ch documented the following security threats between Client and Controller. I  think those issues also fac= e I2RS and NETCONF. Has NETCONF specified some mechanisms to address those = issues?

 

o An unknown/unauthorized u= ser can try to impersonate another user

that can legitimately acces= s virtualized NSF services (or Network Services). This

attack may lead to accessin= g the policies and applications of the

attacked user or to generat= e network traffic outside a the

security functions with a f= alsified identity.

 

o An authorized user may mi= suse assigned privileges to alter the

network traffic processing = of other users in the virtualization

platform. This can become e= specially serious when such a user has

administration privileges g= ranted by the virtualization provider,

the ISP or the local networ= k operator.

 

o A user may try to install= malformed elements (policy or

application), trying to dir= ectly take the control of a NSF or

virtualization platform (fo= r example by exploiting a vulnerability

on one of the functions or = may try to intercept or modify the

traffic of other users in t= he same platform.

 

o A malicious virtualizatio= n provider can modify the software

running on it (the operatin= g system or a concrete vNSF) to alter

the behaviour of the latter= . This event has a high impact on all

users accessing vNSFs as th= e virtualization provider has the

highest level of privilege = on the software in execution.

 

o A user with physical acce= ss to the virtualization platform can

modify the behavior of hard= ware components, or the components

themselves. Furthermore, it= can access a serial console (most

devices offer this interfac= e for maintenance reasons) to access

the NSF software with the s= ame level of privilege of the

virtualization provider

 

 

 

Thanks, Linda

 

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-1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dx8yatUR7MGP for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x22d.google.com (mail-lf0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 301591A877F for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id j78so44534093lfb.1 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:40:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=gzADXoIFL1WCVSU/ifKkuELQdfRNVcUkWNRZL3ZDSWc=; b=ToaiTgTYrPBsx1rdB67WstmXCSsAw7VJ9aeFdJaMQeT7HxO919pAJNcTZTub4CcSw1 PBK5RXxHWs6k9R04szDV2PABML//uei1P/qOw/uo13nvUUf8wyfM6HSSq1WisdhaDYa4 NOb6NLLDPuKmbPjzzo+8EoDvBBblz6TU6gN03TeagidGgcoeHZIidVlX4y+HzJO5sX9N YQWE7tfX5pzhMHxNidVNkFdFY3Ghp8w9A/+xstP+2uRf8idxnskk+pNbUhg0mAG9yvuK 66aFZhwnHZ5tQHB88/tgwqh9TaFbbMSHVuaZfQg700pbzfoEl8aszWvSxZR9PcsO8/u4 peXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=gzADXoIFL1WCVSU/ifKkuELQdfRNVcUkWNRZL3ZDSWc=; b=PVfFLIteJk1H9PeWKbpI7i05MnmHy5+A/62MhOR0cUyao9jZ+5n+7tnuXncJJnVfYB ZnwrjgP+vS7WHnvkWJZdJgqpeYqyogQOCfBSc45susrTwc7+OEIpdO7DLSsj5bL0afBj cKig+Z1YwMsyoXsKbvuylo0+CmIKfvzfMDoXRdvSAVV9ZueK0bdDryJb2X3HojpO9HnB QwrrQAbjnyAVMRlg5FrWtlfFt/pwgooELhAHkKnLbZIm2OAQCRakvk5njbryUV8HTrTD AWcXk0arhN1+KX5GFAu6sn2CVlMOBAVzX1zbOnUOQECdE2r43lVIcNuYia67Enu6JnOU Y40Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTD3F87rlyG05jVFi+TDq/h1pQGG2sBvGkgdbzISz4XUns9qraOFHLR0qu+cFgYkOiqkp294NaUPCVWRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.144.80 with SMTP id s77mr4365493lfd.6.1455846013316; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:40:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.21.217 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:40:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:40:13 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Strassner To: i2nsf@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114020d878b920052c1590f5 Archived-At: Subject: [I2nsf] Post 5: Specific worries about the "Subject-Object-Action-Function" X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 01:40:19 -0000 --001a114020d878b920052c1590f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Post 5: Specific worries about the "Subject-Object-Action-Function" Paradigm in the Framework draft I expressed discomfort with the "Subject-Object-Action-Function" (SOAF) paradigm used in the Framework draft at IETF94. This note explains these worries in more detail. 1. Background - Framework Terminology None of the SOAF terms are formally defined; rather, they are explained informally, as follows: - Subject-Match values, based on packet data, packet header, or packet payload, which can be one or more header fields or bits in the packets, or the various combination of them; - Object-Match values, based on context (e.g., state, direction of the traffic, time, geo-location, etc.); - Action-Egress processing, such as invoke signaling, packet forwarding and/or transformation, SDN/NFV integration; - Functional Profile - a functional profile is a specific organization of characteristics and/or behavior of that define the functionality offered by an entity (e.g., IPS:, signature file, Anti-virus file, URL filtering file, etc.). Integrated and one-pass checks on the content of packets are examples of a functional profile. Section 6.1 also provides the following guidelines: The "subject" of the I2NSF policies should not only include the matching criteria specified by [ACL-MODEL] but also the L4-L7 fields depending on the NSFs selected. The I2NSF Capability Layer has to specify the "Object" (i.e. the context surrounding the packets). The I2NSF "actions" should extend the actions specified by [ACL- MODEL] to include applying statistics functions that clients provide. 2. Comparison Basis Between the start of my posts and now, the I2NSF WG has started considering the paradigm of policy rules (specifically, event- condition-action policy rules). These may be abstracted as about particular type of sentence. The SOAF terms will be compared to sentences below. 3. Worries about using the term "Subject" The "subject" term in SOAF is exclusively limited to "packet data, packet header, or packet payload" information. This presents several problems, including: o From linguistics, the **subject** of a sentence is a person, place, thing, or concept that is doing or being something. Packet information is not a subject by this definition; rather, packet information should be part of the predicate of a sentence. o The term "subject" has traditionally been used in policy management systems to refer to users or other entities that have management responsibility. The concept of a subject is critical for authorization policies. o Packet information is typically used as part of a condition, though it could also be the target of a policy, meaning that some of the packet's data may be changed by the action(s) of a policy. Hence, it is not appropriate as defined. A related worry is the very narrow definition of subject in section 1. However, since subject and object from SOAF will be combined (see section 3), this is not logged as a problem. 4. Worries about using the term "Object" The "object" term in SOAF suffers from being too generic (e.g., anything could be an object). This presents several problems, including: o From linguistics, there are **two** types of objects: - a direct object is the receiver of an action in a sentence - an indirect object identifies to (or for) whom the action is performed It is therefore unclear which object is referred to in SOAF. o The definition of "object-match" values is based on context, but unfortunately, context is not defined. Please see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00762.html for a defintiion of context. o The phrase "object-match" [sic] means that the "object" (or presumably, one or more of its attributes), are being tested against another object. This means that it, like "subject", is also playing the role of a condition, which is odd. 5. Worries about using the term "Action" The "action" term in SOAF is not defined. The examples given imply that it is similar in nature to a standard policy action, though with a more reduced scope of actions that can be defined. However, figure 3 is confusing. There is a connection between "action" and "Simple Actions", as well as between "action" and "function Profile". The connection is neither labeled nor annotated, so it is unclear what is meant. However, the worry is that somehow, about "Function Profile" is a type of action; this will be addressed in the following section. 6. Worries about using the term "Function" The "function" term in SOAF very confusing. The term "function" is combined with "profile"; the problem with this is that "functions" and "profiles" are very different types of entities. In addition, the examples of "profiles" given do not match the traditional definition of a "profile", such as that of a user of device profile; see UAProf or CC/PP for examples. If the purpose of this term is really to "define the functionality offered by an entity", then it does not belong with actions at all (as is implied in Figure 3); rather, it appears to be part of the condition. For example, comparing a signature file would seem to be part of the condition of a rule, not an action. 7. Conclusions The "subject", "object", and "function" terms in SOAF are confusing and likely misnamed. It is unclear what value SOAF offers over the concept of a traditional policy rule. Hence, this will be the subject of my last (hopefully) post. Note: the text in 6.2 "However, the notion of Groups (or roles), Target, Context (or conditions), and Action do cover what is needed for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flows can be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks" needs to change. Note 2: the framework draft recommended using PCIM as a basis for policy rules. Please see Posts 2a and 2b for why this is a BAD idea. References for those posts are: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00736.html and http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00737.html Alternatively, see Appendix A in draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-04, which goes into additional detail why PCIM and PCIMe were NOT used as a basis for However, the notion of Groups (or roles), Target, Context (or regards, John --001a114020d878b920052c1590f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Post 5:=C2=A0 Specific worries about the "Subject-= Object-Action-Function"
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Paradigm in the Framework draft

I expressed discomfort with th= e "Subject-Object-Action-Function" (SOAF)
paradigm used in the= Framework draft at IETF94. This note explains
these worries in more det= ail.

1.=C2=A0 Background - Framework Terminology

=C2=A0=C2=A0 N= one of the SOAF terms are formally defined; rather, they are
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 explained informally, as follows:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Subj= ect-Match values, based on packet data, packet header, or
=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 packet payload, which can be one or more header fi= elds or bits
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in the packets, or the= various combination of them;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Object-Match va= lues, based on context (e.g., state, direction of
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the traffic, time, geo-location, etc.);
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 - Action-Egress processing, such as invoke signaling, packet
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 forwarding and/or transformation, SDN/= NFV integration;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Functional Profile - a funct= ional profile is a specific
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 organiz= ation of characteristics and/or behavior of that define
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the functionality offered by an entity (e.g., IPS:<= ;Profile>,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 signature file, Anti-= virus file, URL filtering file, etc.).
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Integrated and one-pass checks on the content of packets are
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 examples of a functional profile.

=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Section 6.1 also provides the following guidelines:

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 The "subject" of the I2NSF policies should not only includ= e the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 matching criteria specified by [ACL-MODEL] but also t= he L4-L7
=C2=A0=C2=A0 fields depending on the NSFs selected.

=C2= =A0=C2=A0 The I2NSF Capability Layer has to specify the "Object" = (i.e. the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 context surrounding the packets).

=C2=A0=C2= =A0 The I2NSF "actions" should extend the actions specified by [A= CL-
=C2=A0=C2=A0 MODEL] to include applying statistics functions that cl= ients
=C2=A0=C2=A0 provide.


2.=C2=A0 Comparison Basis

= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Between the start of my posts and now, the I2NSF WG has starte= d
=C2=A0=C2=A0 considering the paradigm of policy rules (specifically, e= vent-
=C2=A0=C2=A0 condition-action policy rules). These may be abstract= ed as about
=C2=A0=C2=A0 particular type of sentence. The SOAF terms wil= l be compared to
=C2=A0=C2=A0 sentences below.

=C2=A0=C2=A0
3.= =C2=A0 Worries about using the term "Subject"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 = The "subject" term in SOAF is exclusively limited to "packet= data,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 packet header, or packet payload" information. = This presents
=C2=A0=C2=A0 several problems, including:
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 From linguistics, the **subject** of a= sentence is a person,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 place,= thing, or concept that is doing or being something.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Packet information is not a subject by this defini= tion;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 rather, packet informat= ion should be part of the predicate of
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 a sentence.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The term "su= bject" has traditionally been used in policy
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 management systems to refer to users or other entitie= s that
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have management respon= sibility. The concept of a subject is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 critical for authorization policies.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = o=C2=A0 Packet information is typically used as part of a condition,
=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 though it could also be the target = of a policy, meaning
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that som= e of the packet's data may be changed by the action(s)
=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 of a policy. Hence, it is not appropriate as= defined.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 A related worry is the very narrow definition = of subject in section
=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. However, since subject and object = from SOAF will be combined (see
=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 3), this is not log= ged as a problem.

4.=C2=A0 Worries about using the term "Object&= quot;

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "object" term in SOAF suffers from b= eing too generic (e.g.,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 anything could be an object). This = presents several problems,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 including:
=C2=A0=C2=A0
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 From linguistics, there are **two** types = of objects:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - a direct object= is the receiver of an action in a sentence
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - an indirect object identifies to (or for) whom the action=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is performed
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is therefore unclear which ob= ject is referred to in SOAF.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The defini= tion of "object-match" values is based on context,
=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 but unfortunately, context is not defined= . Please see
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.iet= f.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00762.html
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 for a defintiion of context.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The phrase "object-match" [sic] means that the = "object" (or
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 presum= ably, one or more of its attributes), are being tested
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 against another object. This means that it, lik= e "subject", is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 als= o playing the role of a condition, which is odd.

5.=C2=A0 Worries abo= ut using the term "Action"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "action&qu= ot; term in SOAF is not defined. The examples given imply
=C2=A0=C2=A0 t= hat it is similar in nature to a standard policy action, though
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 with a more reduced scope of actions that can be defined. However,=C2=A0=C2=A0 figure 3 is confusing. There is a connection between "a= ction" and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Simple Actions", as well as betw= een "action" and "function
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Profile". Th= e connection is neither labeled nor annotated, so it is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 unc= lear what is meant. However, the worry is that somehow, about
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 "Function Profile" is a type of action; this will be addresse= d in
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the following section.


6.=C2=A0 Worries abou= t using the term "Function"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "function= " term in SOAF very confusing. The term "function" is
=C2= =A0=C2=A0 combined with "profile"; the problem with this is that = "functions"
=C2=A0=C2=A0 and "profiles" are very dif= ferent types of entities. In addition,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the examples of &quo= t;profiles" given do not match the traditional
=C2=A0=C2=A0 definit= ion of a "profile", such as that of a user of device profile;
= =C2=A0=C2=A0 see UAProf or CC/PP for examples.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the pu= rpose of this term is really to "define the functionality
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 offered by an entity", then it does not belong with actions at all=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (as is implied in Figure 3); rather, it appears to be part= of the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 condition. For example, comparing a signature file = would seem to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 part of the condition of a rule, not an ac= tion.

=C2=A0=C2=A0
7.=C2=A0 Conclusions

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The &q= uot;subject", "object", and "function" terms in SO= AF are confusing
=C2=A0=C2=A0 and likely misnamed. It is unclear what va= lue SOAF offers over the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 concept of a traditional policy ru= le. Hence, this will be the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 subject of my last (hopefully) = post.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note: the text in 6.2 "However,= the notion of Groups (or roles),
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Target, Context (or condi= tions), and Action do cover what is needed
=C2=A0=C2=A0 for clients/appl= ications to express the rules on how their flows can
=C2=A0=C2=A0 be tre= ated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks" needs to change.

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Note 2:=C2=A0 the framework draft recommended using PCIM as a basis = for
=C2=A0=C2=A0 policy rules. Please see Posts 2a and 2b for why this i= s a BAD idea.
=C2=A0=C2=A0 References for those posts are:
=C2=A0=C2= =A0 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00736.html = and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/ms= g00737.html
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Alternatively, see Appendi= x A in
=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-04, w= hich goes into
=C2=A0=C2=A0 additional detail why PCIM and PCIMe were NO= T used as a basis for
=C2=A0=C2=A0 However, the notion of Groups (or rol= es), Target, Context (or


regards,
John
--001a114020d878b920052c1590f5-- From nobody Thu Feb 25 12:19:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: i2nsf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E541B3447 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:19:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.206 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.206 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jBVTT0fdkR2i for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90D3B1B3446 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 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with ESMTP id 0MLl-k7pD1y6 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x231.google.com (mail-lb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11A511AD065 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-x231.google.com with SMTP id bc4so71625985lbc.2 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:00:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=UxZKLhNo66BKUkx7iZ/Ut3j3Y3kGvUVh08ywGi5l+RE=; b=tKlwLDbXmd62e/KLyTZGQAVeUp3Ww19rEjYO6OkTdSGKu6eGAtOp9zAw4kXTuascOH wVfoywvcu/hc3Fne0+6xtGMqqCZdk2ZXI2oqshF+OD6MUNwiMgdlU8l4vqDTe8IFGTa8 teaK5f1Eduh/fn3km791wyPJbCidE4TyqH4x8IBnhE+uA3nB9TbdJYZpCcsRzxuPSpe7 kDu5PajQe4sCtDnTr+26ifxlIw/HFYP5FmF5h1MQiH7kVRzsXkvV59Len6elGy8eM5/q 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<4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DEFA8F@dfweml701-chm> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DEFA8F@dfweml701-chm> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:00:47 -0800 Message-ID: From: John Strassner To: Linda Dunbar , John Strassner Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3c092db1fbe052cde2dfa Archived-At: Cc: "i2nsf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Post 5: Specific worries about the "Subject-Object-Action-Function" X-BeenThere: i2nsf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "*I2NSF: Interface to Network Security Functions mailing list*" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:00:53 -0000 --001a11c3c092db1fbe052cde2dfa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Linda, thank you for your kind words. I will try and devote Monday to providing a detailed round of editing to the terminology draft, so that we can get this out to the WG soon. In this edit, I will expand on what you are saying (without giving an academic treatise :-) ). Thank you for emphasizing the intent of the "functional profile" - I will give it some serious thought and include it in my edits to the terminology draft co-authors. Clearly, we need this term defined (note that Sue already defined the term "profile" and my concerns about it). regards, John On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote: > John, > > > > Thank you very much for the comprehensive write-up. That is very good. > > > > With more support & trend going to ECA model, can you provide a suggestio= n > on the =E2=80=9Cterminology=E2=80=9D that is the matching criteria (i.e.= condition) based > on N-tuples in packets? V.s. the matching criteria based on others (such > as internal variables, states, ports, or others)? > > > > > > As for the =E2=80=9Caction=E2=80=9D of the =E2=80=9CFunctional profile= =E2=80=9D, the intent was to > describe the =E2=80=9CAction of applying a specific profile or signature = file to > the packets=E2=80=9D ( as compared to the =E2=80=9Caction=E2=80=9D of pas= sing, dropping or rate > limiting the packets). > > > > Linda > > > > *From:* I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *John > Strassner > *Sent:* Thursday, February 18, 2016 7:40 PM > *To:* i2nsf@ietf.org > *Subject:* [I2nsf] Post 5: Specific worries about the > "Subject-Object-Action-Function" > > > > Post 5: Specific worries about the "Subject-Object-Action-Function" > Paradigm in the Framework draft > > I expressed discomfort with the "Subject-Object-Action-Function" (SOAF) > paradigm used in the Framework draft at IETF94. This note explains > these worries in more detail. > > 1. Background - Framework Terminology > > None of the SOAF terms are formally defined; rather, they are > explained informally, as follows: > > - Subject-Match values, based on packet data, packet header, or > packet payload, which can be one or more header fields or bits > in the packets, or the various combination of them; > - Object-Match values, based on context (e.g., state, direction of > the traffic, time, geo-location, etc.); > - Action-Egress processing, such as invoke signaling, packet > forwarding and/or transformation, SDN/NFV integration; > - Functional Profile - a functional profile is a specific > organization of characteristics and/or behavior of that define > the functionality offered by an entity (e.g., IPS:, > signature file, Anti-virus file, URL filtering file, etc.). > Integrated and one-pass checks on the content of packets are > examples of a functional profile. > > Section 6.1 also provides the following guidelines: > > The "subject" of the I2NSF policies should not only include the > matching criteria specified by [ACL-MODEL] but also the L4-L7 > fields depending on the NSFs selected. > > The I2NSF Capability Layer has to specify the "Object" (i.e. the > context surrounding the packets). > > The I2NSF "actions" should extend the actions specified by [ACL- > MODEL] to include applying statistics functions that clients > provide. > > > 2. Comparison Basis > > Between the start of my posts and now, the I2NSF WG has started > considering the paradigm of policy rules (specifically, event- > condition-action policy rules). These may be abstracted as about > particular type of sentence. The SOAF terms will be compared to > sentences below. > > > 3. Worries about using the term "Subject" > > The "subject" term in SOAF is exclusively limited to "packet data, > packet header, or packet payload" information. This presents > several problems, including: > > o From linguistics, the **subject** of a sentence is a person, > place, thing, or concept that is doing or being something. > Packet information is not a subject by this definition; > rather, packet information should be part of the predicate of > a sentence. > o The term "subject" has traditionally been used in policy > management systems to refer to users or other entities that > have management responsibility. The concept of a subject is > critical for authorization policies. > o Packet information is typically used as part of a condition, > though it could also be the target of a policy, meaning > that some of the packet's data may be changed by the action(s) > of a policy. Hence, it is not appropriate as defined. > > A related worry is the very narrow definition of subject in section > 1. However, since subject and object from SOAF will be combined (see > section 3), this is not logged as a problem. > > 4. Worries about using the term "Object" > > The "object" term in SOAF suffers from being too generic (e.g., > anything could be an object). This presents several problems, > including: > > o From linguistics, there are **two** types of objects: > - a direct object is the receiver of an action in a sentence > - an indirect object identifies to (or for) whom the action > is performed > It is therefore unclear which object is referred to in SOAF. > o The definition of "object-match" values is based on context, > but unfortunately, context is not defined. Please see > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00762.html > for a defintiion of context. > o The phrase "object-match" [sic] means that the "object" (or > presumably, one or more of its attributes), are being tested > against another object. This means that it, like "subject", is > also playing the role of a condition, which is odd. > > 5. Worries about using the term "Action" > > The "action" term in SOAF is not defined. The examples given imply > that it is similar in nature to a standard policy action, though > with a more reduced scope of actions that can be defined. However, > figure 3 is confusing. There is a connection between "action" and > "Simple Actions", as well as between "action" and "function > Profile". The connection is neither labeled nor annotated, so it is > unclear what is meant. However, the worry is that somehow, about > "Function Profile" is a type of action; this will be addressed in > the following section. > > > 6. Worries about using the term "Function" > > The "function" term in SOAF very confusing. The term "function" is > combined with "profile"; the problem with this is that "functions" > and "profiles" are very different types of entities. In addition, > the examples of "profiles" given do not match the traditional > definition of a "profile", such as that of a user of device profile; > see UAProf or CC/PP for examples. > > If the purpose of this term is really to "define the functionality > offered by an entity", then it does not belong with actions at all > (as is implied in Figure 3); rather, it appears to be part of the > condition. For example, comparing a signature file would seem to be > part of the condition of a rule, not an action. > > > 7. Conclusions > > The "subject", "object", and "function" terms in SOAF are confusing > and likely misnamed. It is unclear what value SOAF offers over the > concept of a traditional policy rule. Hence, this will be the > subject of my last (hopefully) post. > > Note: the text in 6.2 "However, the notion of Groups (or roles), > Target, Context (or conditions), and Action do cover what is needed > for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flows can > be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks" needs to change. > > Note 2: the framework draft recommended using PCIM as a basis for > policy rules. Please see Posts 2a and 2b for why this is a BAD idea. > References for those posts are: > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00736.html and > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00737.html > > Alternatively, see Appendix A in > draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-04, which goes into > additional detail why PCIM and PCIMe were NOT used as a basis for > However, the notion of Groups (or roles), Target, Context (or > > > > regards, > > John > --=20 regards, John --001a11c3c092db1fbe052cde2dfa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Linda,

thank you for your= kind words. I will try and devote Monday to providing a detailed round of = editing to the terminology draft, so that we can get this out to the WG soo= n. In this edit, I will expand on what you are saying (without giving an ac= ademic treatise :-)=C2=A0 ).

Thank you for emphasi= zing the intent of the "functional profile" - I will give it some= serious thought and include it in my edits to the terminology draft co-aut= hors. Clearly, we need this term defined (note that Sue already defined the= term "profile" and my concerns about it).

=C2=A0

regards,
John

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Linda= Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com> wrote:

John,<= /span>

=C2=A0=

Thank you very much = for the comprehensive write-up. That is very good.

=C2=A0=

With more support &a= mp; trend going to ECA model, can you provide a suggestion on the =E2=80=9C= terminology=E2=80=9D that =C2=A0is the matching criteria (i.e. condition) b= ased on N-tuples in =C2=A0packets? V.s. the matching criteria based on others (such as inte= rnal variables, states, ports, or others)?

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

As for the =E2=80=9C= action=E2=80=9D of the =C2=A0=E2=80=9CFunctional profile=E2=80=9D, the inte= nt was to describe the =E2=80=9CAction of applying a specific profile or si= gnature file to the packets=E2=80=9D ( as compared to the =E2=80=9Caction=E2=80=9D of passing, dropping or rate l= imiting the packets).

=C2=A0=

Linda

=C2=A0=

From: I2nsf [mailt= o:i2nsf-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Strassner
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 7:40 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.o= rg
Subject: [I2nsf] Post 5: Specific worries about the "Subject-Ob= ject-Action-Function"

=C2=A0

Post 5:=C2=A0 Specific worries about the "Subject-Object-Action-Fun= ction"
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Paradigm in the Framework = draft

I expressed discomfort with the "Subject-Object-Action-Function&quo= t; (SOAF)
paradigm used in the Framework draft at IETF94. This note explains
these worries in more detail.

1.=C2=A0 Background - Framework Terminology

=C2=A0=C2=A0 None of the SOAF terms are formally defined; rather, they a= re
=C2=A0=C2=A0 explained informally, as follows:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Subject-Match values, based on packet data, p= acket header, or
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 packet payload, which can be one or mo= re header fields or bits
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in the packets, or the various combina= tion of them;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Object-Match values, based on context (e.g., sta= te, direction of
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the traffic, time, geo-location, etc.)= ;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Action-Egress processing, such as invoke signali= ng, packet
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 forwarding and/or transformation, SDN/= NFV integration;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - Functional Profile - a functional profile is a s= pecific
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 organization of characteristics and/or= behavior of that define
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the functionality offered by an entity= (e.g., IPS:<Profile>,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 signature file, Anti-virus file, URL f= iltering file, etc.).
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Integrated and one-pass checks on the = content of packets are
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 examples of a functional profile.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 6.1 also provides the following guidelines:<= u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "subject" of the I2NSF policies should not on= ly include the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 matching criteria specified by [ACL-MODEL] but also the L4-L7<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0 fields depending on the NSFs selected.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The I2NSF Capability Layer has to specify the "Object&= quot; (i.e. the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 context surrounding the packets).

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The I2NSF "actions" should extend the actions spe= cified by [ACL-
=C2=A0=C2=A0 MODEL] to include applying statistics functions that clients =C2=A0=C2=A0 provide.


2.=C2=A0 Comparison Basis

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Between the start of my posts and now, the I2NSF WG has sta= rted
=C2=A0=C2=A0 considering the paradigm of policy rules (specifically, event-=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 condition-action policy rules). These may be abstracted as abo= ut
=C2=A0=C2=A0 particular type of sentence. The SOAF terms will be compared t= o
=C2=A0=C2=A0 sentences below.

=C2=A0=C2=A0
3.=C2=A0 Worries about using the term "Subject"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "subject" term in SOAF is exclusively limited= to "packet data,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 packet header, or packet payload" information. This prese= nts
=C2=A0=C2=A0 several problems, including:
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 From linguistics, the **subject** of a sen= tence is a person,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 place, thing, or concept that is= doing or being something.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Packet information is not a subj= ect by this definition;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 rather, packet information shoul= d be part of the predicate of
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 a sentence.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The term "subject" has tradition= ally been used in policy
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 management systems to refer to u= sers or other entities that
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have management responsibility. = The concept of a subject is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 critical for authorization polic= ies.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 Packet information is typically used as pa= rt of a condition,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 though it could also be the targ= et of a policy, meaning
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that some of the packet's da= ta may be changed by the action(s)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 of a policy. Hence, it is not ap= propriate as defined.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 A related worry is the very narrow definition of subject in= section
=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. However, since subject and object from SOAF will be combine= d (see
=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 3), this is not logged as a problem.

4.=C2=A0 Worries about using the term "Object"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "object" term in SOAF suffers from being too = generic (e.g.,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 anything could be an object). This presents several problems,<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0 including:
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 From linguistics, there are **two** types = of objects:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - a direct object is the receive= r of an action in a sentence
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - an indirect object identifies = to (or for) whom the action
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is performed
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is therefore unclear which ob= ject is referred to in SOAF.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The definition of "object-match"= values is based on context,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 but unfortunately, context is no= t defined. Please see
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf/current/msg00762.html
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 for a defintiion of context.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 o=C2=A0 The phrase "object-match" [sic] = means that the "object" (or
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 presumably, one or more of its a= ttributes), are being tested
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 against another object. This mea= ns that it, like "subject", is
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 also playing the role of a condi= tion, which is odd.

5.=C2=A0 Worries about using the term "Action"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "action" term in SOAF is not defined. The exa= mples given imply
=C2=A0=C2=A0 that it is similar in nature to a standard policy action, thou= gh
=C2=A0=C2=A0 with a more reduced scope of actions that can be defined. Howe= ver,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 figure 3 is confusing. There is a connection between "act= ion" and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Simple Actions", as well as between "action&qu= ot; and "function
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Profile". The connection is neither labeled nor annotated= , so it is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 unclear what is meant. However, the worry is that somehow, abo= ut
=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Function Profile" is a type of action; this will be= addressed in
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the following section.


6.=C2=A0 Worries about using the term "Function"

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "function" term in SOAF very confusing. The t= erm "function" is
=C2=A0=C2=A0 combined with "profile"; the problem with this is th= at "functions"
=C2=A0=C2=A0 and "profiles" are very different types of entities.= In addition,
=C2=A0=C2=A0 the examples of "profiles" given do not match the tr= aditional
=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition of a "profile", such as that of a user of= device profile;
=C2=A0=C2=A0 see UAProf or CC/PP for examples.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the purpose of this term is really to "define the f= unctionality
=C2=A0=C2=A0 offered by an entity", then it does not belong with actio= ns at all
=C2=A0=C2=A0 (as is implied in Figure 3); rather, it appears to be part of = the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 condition. For example, comparing a signature file would seem = to be
=C2=A0=C2=A0 part of the condition of a rule, not an action.<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0
7.=C2=A0 Conclusions

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The "subject", "object", and "func= tion" terms in SOAF are confusing
=C2=A0=C2=A0 and likely misnamed. It is unclear what value SOAF offers over= the
=C2=A0=C2=A0 concept of a traditional policy rule. Hence, this will be the<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0 subject of my last (hopefully) post.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note: the text in 6.2 "However, the notion of Groups (or = roles),
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Target, Context (or conditions), and Action do cover what is n= eeded
=C2=A0=C2=A0 for clients/applications to express the rules on how their flo= ws can
=C2=A0=C2=A0 be treated by the Flow-Based NSFs in networks" needs to c= hange.

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note 2:=C2=A0 the framework draft recommended using PCIM as= a basis for
=C2=A0=C2=A0 policy rules. Please see Posts 2a and 2b for why this is a BAD= idea.
=C2=A0=C2=A0 References for those posts are:
=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf= /current/msg00736.html and
=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i2nsf= /current/msg00737.html
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Alternatively, see Appendix A in
=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-04, which goes = into
=C2=A0=C2=A0 additional detail why PCIM and PCIMe were NOT used as a basis = for
=C2=A0=C2=A0 However, the notion of Groups (or roles), Target, Context (or<= u>

=C2=A0

regards,

John




--
regards,
John
--001a11c3c092db1fbe052cde2dfa--