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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Call for Agenda Items for Buenos Aires
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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:24:48 +0000
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Subject: [I2nsf] Call for Agenda Items for Buenos Aires
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Greetings WG,



Our meeting in Buenos Aires is fast approaching. We have requested a slot f=
or I2NSF.

Please send over requests for agenda time for Buenos Aires.



Please remember that we will give priority to drafts that have already rece=
ived significant discussion on list.

Thanks,

Adrian & Linda

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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Greetings WG,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Our meeting in Buenos Aires is fast approaching. =
We have requested a slot for I2NSF.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Please send over requests for agenda time for Bue=
nos Aires.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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fts that have already received significant discussion on list.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Adrian &amp; Linda<o:p></o:p></p>
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] Call for Agenda Items for Buenos Aires
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:07:29 +0900
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--001a1147e4a0da4d3a052d07591e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Linda and Adrian,
My team is implementing the following draft based on OpenStack and
OpenDayLight:
Software-Defined Networking Based Security Services using Interface to
Network Security Functions
(draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services-03)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services/

In this meeting, I want to share our progress.
I think that 5 minutes will be fine.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul


On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
wrote:

> Greetings WG,
>
>
>
> Our meeting in Buenos Aires is fast approaching. We have requested a slot
> for I2NSF.
>
> Please send over requests for agenda time for Buenos Aires.
>
>
>
> Please remember that we will give priority to drafts that have already
> received significant discussion on list.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Adrian & Linda
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
>


-- 
===========================
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
<http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>

--001a1147e4a0da4d3a052d07591e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Linda and Adrian,</div><div>My team is implementin=
g the following draft based on OpenStack and OpenDayLight:</div><div>Softwa=
re-Defined Networking Based Security Services using Interface to Network Se=
curity Functions</div><div>(draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services-03)</di=
v><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-se=
curity-services/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services/</a></div><div><br></div><div>In this mee=
ting, I want to share our progress.</div><div>I think that 5 minutes will b=
e fine.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Rega=
rds,</div><div>Paul</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 1:24 AM, Linda Dunbar <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" target=3D"_=
blank">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p>Greetings WG,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Our meeting in Buenos Aires is fast approaching. We have requested a slo=
t for I2NSF.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Please send over requests for agenda time for Buenos Aires.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Please remember that we will give priority to drafts that have already r=
eceived significant discussion on list.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Adrian &amp; Linda<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
I2nsf mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.<br>Assistant Professor<b=
r>Department of Software<br>Sungkyunkwan University<br>Office: +82-31-299-4=
957<br>Email: <a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">j=
aehoon.paul@gmail.com</a>,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu" style=
=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px" target=3D"_blank">pauljeong@skku.edu</a><=
br>Personal Homepage: <a href=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeon=
g.php" target=3D"_blank">http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php</a=
><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

--001a1147e4a0da4d3a052d07591e--


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Subject: [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
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We've published  I2NSF terminology draft.  Rather than polish it among =
the authors Adrian suggested we let the WG view this draft and make =
suggestions on the definitions.

Sue Hares
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 10:38 AM
To: Liang Xia; Diego Lopez; Susan Hares; John Strassner; Liang Xia =
(Frank); John Strassner; Diego R. Lopex
Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and posted to the IETF =
repository.

Name:		draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology
Revision:	00
Title:		I2NSF Terminology
Document date:	2016-03-03
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt=

Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology/
Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00


Abstract:
   This document describes the terminology for I2NSF.

                                                                         =
        =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



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Hi Sue, all,

Thank you for compiling this first version of the document.=20

FWIW, you may find my detailed review following these links:

.doc version: http://tinyurl.com/termdoc=20
.pdf version: http://tinyurl.com/termpdf=20

Main comments:=20

* Add pointers to RFC4949 and RFC3198.
* Discuss whether it is acceptable to freeze some technical decisions in a =
terminology document
* Remove all entries related to virtualization.=20
* Avoid having several terms to denote the same concept (e.g., service laye=
r, controller)
* Reuse definitions from existing documents (e.g., action, policy rule, acc=
ounting, ...)=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susan Hares
> Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 3 mars 2016 16:39
> =C0=A0: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Cc=A0: 'DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA'; 'Robert Moskowitz'; 'John Strassner'; 'Xiali=
ang
> (Frank)'; 'Adrian Farrel'; 'Linda Dunbar'
> Objet=A0: [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-
> terminology-00.txt
>=20
> We've published  I2NSF terminology draft.  Rather than polish it among th=
e
> authors Adrian suggested we let the WG view this draft and make
> suggestions on the definitions.
>=20
> Sue Hares
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 10:38 AM
> To: Liang Xia; Diego Lopez; Susan Hares; John Strassner; Liang Xia
> (Frank); John Strassner; Diego R. Lopex
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.tx=
t
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>=20
> Name:		draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology
> Revision:	00
> Title:		I2NSF Terminology
> Document date:	2016-03-03
> Group:		Individual Submission
> Pages:		10
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-
> terminology-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-
> terminology/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology=
-
> 00
>=20
>=20
> Abstract:
>    This document describes the terminology for I2NSF.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


From nobody Wed Mar  9 13:46:33 2016
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
References: <20160303153744.22075.4338.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <038301d17562$deea8010$9cbf8030$@ndzh.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008CF7190@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>
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Cc: 'Adrian Farrel' <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "'Xialiang \(Frank\)'" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>, 'John Strassner' <strazpdj@gmail.com>, 'DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA' <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, 'Linda Dunbar' <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
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On 03/07/2016 04:07 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> Hi Sue, all,
>
> Thank you for compiling this first version of the document.
>
> FWIW, you may find my detailed review following these links:
>
> .doc version: http://tinyurl.com/termdoc
> .pdf version: http://tinyurl.com/termpdf
>
> Main comments:
>
> * Add pointers to RFC4949 and RFC3198.
> * Discuss whether it is acceptable to freeze some technical decisions in a terminology document
> * Remove all entries related to virtualization.
> * Avoid having several terms to denote the same concept (e.g., service layer, controller)

I might think we include these as oft-used synonymous terms.  So that 
when they appear in other documents we can work to align terms.

It would be fantastic to use just one term for a thing, but a lot of 
reasons, the world does not work that way.  Best to group like terms 
together, inform which we prefer, and guide word-usage rather than dictate.

> * Reuse definitions from existing documents (e.g., action, policy rule, accounting, ...)

Same thing.  There MAY be a reason I2NSF uses a different term. Best to 
capture that why.  Or the different terms are used in lots of different 
places and thus how do you choose?

>
> Cheers,
> Med
>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susan Hares
>> Envoyé : jeudi 3 mars 2016 16:39
>> À : i2nsf@ietf.org
>> Cc : 'DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA'; 'Robert Moskowitz'; 'John Strassner'; 'Xialiang
>> (Frank)'; 'Adrian Farrel'; 'Linda Dunbar'
>> Objet : [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-
>> terminology-00.txt
>>
>> We've published  I2NSF terminology draft.  Rather than polish it among the
>> authors Adrian suggested we let the WG view this draft and make
>> suggestions on the definitions.
>>
>> Sue Hares
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 10:38 AM
>> To: Liang Xia; Diego Lopez; Susan Hares; John Strassner; Liang Xia
>> (Frank); John Strassner; Diego R. Lopex
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and posted to the IETF
>> repository.
>>
>> Name:		draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology
>> Revision:	00
>> Title:		I2NSF Terminology
>> Document date:	2016-03-03
>> Group:		Individual Submission
>> Pages:		10
>> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-
>> terminology-00.txt
>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-
>> terminology/
>> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-
>> 00
>>
>>
>> Abstract:
>>     This document describes the terminology for I2NSF.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> I2nsf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>


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From: John Strassner <strazpdj@gmail.com>
To: Mohamed Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, John Strassner <strazpdj@gmail.com>
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Cc: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "Xialiang \(Frank\)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
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Hi Mohamed,

I have attached edits and comments to your document. In general,

   - I don't understand the formatting changes
   - RFC3198 was not included because it is tied to PCIM (not even PCIMe),
and we have
     already agreed that PCIM was not applicable.
   - I don't understand your comment regarding the pseudocode explaining
how an ECA
     policy rule operates (i.e., "freeze some technical decisions in a
terminology document")
   - I don't feel strongly one way or the other about virtualization; if it
is decided to be kept,
     then I think my questions should be addressed (otherwise, they are of
course irrelevant)
   - I very much agree that a term should only have one definition

regards,
John

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Sue, all,
>
> Thank you for compiling this first version of the document.
>
> FWIW, you may find my detailed review following these links:
>
> .doc version: http://tinyurl.com/termdoc
> .pdf version: http://tinyurl.com/termpdf
>
> Main comments:
>
> * Add pointers to RFC4949 and RFC3198.
> * Discuss whether it is acceptable to freeze some technical decisions in =
a
> terminology document
> * Remove all entries related to virtualization.
> * Avoid having several terms to denote the same concept (e.g., service
> layer, controller)
> * Reuse definitions from existing documents (e.g., action, policy rule,
> accounting, ...)
>
> Cheers,
> Med
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Susan Hares
> > Envoy=C3=A9 : jeudi 3 mars 2016 16:39
> > =C3=80 : i2nsf@ietf.org
> > Cc : 'DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA'; 'Robert Moskowitz'; 'John Strassner';
> 'Xialiang
> > (Frank)'; 'Adrian Farrel'; 'Linda Dunbar'
> > Objet : [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-
> > terminology-00.txt
> >
> > We've published  I2NSF terminology draft.  Rather than polish it among
> the
> > authors Adrian suggested we let the WG view this draft and make
> > suggestions on the definitions.
> >
> > Sue Hares
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 10:38 AM
> > To: Liang Xia; Diego Lopez; Susan Hares; John Strassner; Liang Xia
> > (Frank); John Strassner; Diego R. Lopex
> > Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt
> > has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and posted to the IETF
> > repository.
> >
> > Name:         draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology
> > Revision:     00
> > Title:                I2NSF Terminology
> > Document date:        2016-03-03
> > Group:                Individual Submission
> > Pages:                10
> > URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-
> > terminology-00.txt
> > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-
> > terminology/
> > Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-
> > 00
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    This document describes the terminology for I2NSF.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> > tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > I2nsf mailing list
> > I2nsf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>



--=20
regards,
John

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Mohamed,</div><div><br></div><div>I have attached =
edits and comments to your document. In general,</div><div><br></div><div>=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 - I don&#39;t understand the formatting changes</div><div>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 - RFC3198 was not included because it is tied to PCIM (not even P=
CIMe), and we have</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 already agreed that P=
CIM was not applicable.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0 - I don&#39;t understand you=
r comment regarding the pseudocode explaining how an ECA</div><div>=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 policy rule operates (i.e., &quot;freeze some technical =
decisions in a terminology document&quot;)</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0 - I don&#=
39;t feel strongly one way or the other about virtualization; if it is deci=
ded to be kept,</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 then I think my question=
s should be addressed (otherwise, they are of course irrelevant)</div><div>=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 - I very much agree that a term should only have one definitio=
n</div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div>John</div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM=
,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Sue, all,<br>
<br>
Thank you for compiling this first version of the document.<br>
<br>
FWIW, you may find my detailed review following these links:<br>
<br>
.doc version: <a href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/termdoc" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">http://tinyurl.com/termdoc</a><br>
.pdf version: <a href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/termpdf" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">http://tinyurl.com/termpdf</a><br>
<br>
Main comments:<br>
<br>
* Add pointers to RFC4949 and RFC3198.<br>
* Discuss whether it is acceptable to freeze some technical decisions in a =
terminology document<br>
* Remove all entries related to virtualization.<br>
* Avoid having several terms to denote the same concept (e.g., service laye=
r, controller)<br>
* Reuse definitions from existing documents (e.g., action, policy rule, acc=
ounting, ...)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Med<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Message d&#39;origine-----<br>
&gt; De=C2=A0: I2nsf [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">i2ns=
f-bounces@ietf.org</a>] De la part de Susan Hares<br>
&gt; Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: jeudi 3 mars 2016 16:39<br>
&gt; =C3=80=C2=A0: <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Cc=C2=A0: &#39;DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA&#39;; &#39;Robert Moskowitz&#39;; &#=
39;John Strassner&#39;; &#39;Xialiang<br>
&gt; (Frank)&#39;; &#39;Adrian Farrel&#39;; &#39;Linda Dunbar&#39;<br>
&gt; Objet=C2=A0: [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2ns=
f-<br>
&gt; terminology-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We&#39;ve published=C2=A0 I2NSF terminology draft.=C2=A0 Rather than p=
olish it among the<br>
&gt; authors Adrian suggested we let the WG view this draft and make<br>
&gt; suggestions on the definitions.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sue Hares<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf=
.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-draft=
s@ietf.org</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 10:38 AM<br>
&gt; To: Liang Xia; Diego Lopez; Susan Hares; John Strassner; Liang Xia<br>
&gt; (Frank); John Strassner; Diego R. Lopex<br>
&gt; Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00=
.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A new version of I-D, draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-00.txt<br>
&gt; has been successfully submitted by Susan Hares and posted to the IETF<=
br>
&gt; repository.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology<b=
r>
&gt; Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
&gt; Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I2NSF Te=
rminology<br>
&gt; Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2016-03-03<br>
&gt; Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individu=
al Submission<br>
&gt; Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10<br>
&gt; URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.i=
etf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-</a><br>
&gt; terminology-00.txt<br>
&gt; Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2nsf-</a><br>
&gt; terminology/<br>
&gt; Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hares-i2nsf-terminology-</a><br>
&gt; 00<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes the terminology for I2NSF.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of<br>
&gt; submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The IETF Secretariat<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; I2nsf mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature"><div>regards,</div><div>John</div></div>
</div>

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--001a11c259a89f7ed8052db343c8--


From nobody Sat Mar 12 01:07:20 2016
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Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com
Subject: [I2nsf] i2nsf - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 95
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Dear Linda Dunbar,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

i2nsf Session 1 (2:00:00)
    Thursday, Afternoon Session III 1730-1930
    Room Name: Quebracho B size: 75
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Interface to Network Security Functions
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Linda Dunbar

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 60
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: idr i2rs l3sm trill rtgwg rtgarea nfvrg teas netmod netconf
 Second Priority: supa sfc nvo3 sdnrg dots sacm saag lime
 Third Priority: mile


Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Wed Mar 16 05:50:03 2016
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 21:49:21 +0900
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Subject: [I2nsf] Announcement for Revision of I2NSF SDN-based Security Services
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--001a11492cb6215658052e29f30a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi I2NSF WG,
I have updated the draft of I2NSF SDN-based Security Services:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services-04

In this revision, Korea Telecom (KT) contributed to a new use case, such as
VoIP/VoLTE.
The security service for VoIP/VoLTE is currently provided by the legacy
systems in KT and
KT has a plan to upgrade this service on top of NFV/SDN environments in
near future.

In this meeting, I would like to report this new use case and address
why I2NSF is useful in the NFV/SDN environments.

Also, I will report the plan and progress of our implementation that is
based on OpenStack
and OpenDayLight.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul
-- 
===========================
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
<http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>

--001a11492cb6215658052e29f30a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi I2NSF WG,<div>I have updated the draft of=C2=A0I2NSF SD=
N-based Security Services:</div><div><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/draft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services-04">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-jeong-i2nsf-sdn-security-services-04</a></div><div><br></div><div>In th=
is revision, Korea Telecom (KT) contributed to a new use case, such as VoIP=
/VoLTE.</div><div>The security service for VoIP/VoLTE is currently provided=
 by the legacy systems in KT and</div><div>KT has a plan to upgrade this se=
rvice on top of NFV/SDN environments in near future.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>In this meeting, I would like to report this new use case and address=C2=
=A0</div><div>why I2NSF is useful in the NFV/SDN environments.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Also, I will report the plan and progress of our implementatio=
n that is based on OpenStack</div><div>and OpenDayLight.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>Paul<br>-- =
<br><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.<br>Assistant=
 Professor<br>Department of Software<br>Sungkyunkwan University<br>Office: =
+82-31-299-4957<br>Email: <a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a>,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@sk=
ku.edu" style=3D"font-size:12.8px" target=3D"_blank">pauljeong@skku.edu</a>=
<br>Personal Homepage: <a href=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeo=
ng.php" target=3D"_blank">http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php</=
a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>

--001a11492cb6215658052e29f30a--


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Message-ID: <CAJwYUrG6Ah6q=tuL4F7=QkuCEmAGDFEgZk+24ZMX1So7qtuLdQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: John Strassner <strazpdj@gmail.com>
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
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Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: [I2nsf] Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
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Dear chairs,

with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf of the authors, I
would like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.

For those of you in the WG that have not had the chance to read this
important document, it is available at:

URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05


-- 
regards,
John

--001a11c3eab4d3d8cd052e3278b3
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear chairs,</div><div><br></div><div>with the most r=
ecent release of this draft, on behalf of the authors, I would like to requ=
est a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.</div><div><br></div><div>For those=
 of you in the WG that have not had the chance to read this important docum=
ent, it is available at:</div><div><br></div><div>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-=
merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https:/=
/www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt</a><br> S=
tatus:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/</a><br> Ht=
mlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05</a><br> Diff:=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?u=
rl2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05</a><br=
><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div>reg=
ards,</div><div>John</div></div>
</div>

--001a11c3eab4d3d8cd052e3278b3--


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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
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Thanks John,
=20
When this document was discussed in Yokohama (IIRCC) we agreed:
1. we would adopt a framework draft
2. this looked like a good candidate
3. there were some changes needed
4. we wanted a separate terminology document
5. we needed the framework to be consistent with the terminology doc
=20
1 and 2 are good
For 3, although we can all run rfcdiff, maybe you could send a summary =
of the changes to the list
4 has a candidate I-D from you (thanks)
For 5 see 3
=20
I'll be looking at your new revision over the next few days.
=20
Thanks for the work,
Adrian
=20
From: John Strassner [mailto:strazpdj@gmail.com]=20
Sent: 16 March 2016 23:00
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: Linda Dunbar; Adrian Farrel
Subject: Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
=20
Dear chairs,
=20
with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf of the authors, I =
would like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.
=20
For those of you in the WG that have not had the chance to read this =
important document, it is available at:
=20
URL:            =
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt
Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/
Htmlized:       =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05
Diff:           =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05


--=20
regards,
John

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Thanks =
John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>When this document was =
discussed in Yokohama (IIRCC) we agreed:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>1. we would adopt a framework =
draft<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>2. this looked like a good =
candidate<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>3. there were some changes =
needed<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>4. we wanted a separate =
terminology document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>5. we needed the framework to =
be consistent with the terminology doc<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>1 and 2 are =
good<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>For 3, although we can all run =
rfcdiff, maybe you could send a summary of the changes to the =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>4 has a candidate I-D from you =
(thanks)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>For 5 see =
3<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I'll be looking at your new =
revision over the next few days.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the =
work,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> John Strassner =
[mailto:strazpdj@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 16 March 2016 =
23:00<br><b>To:</b> i2nsf@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; Adrian =
Farrel<br><b>Subject:</b> Request for WG Adoption of =
draft-merged-i2nsf-framework<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Dear chairs,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf =
of the authors, I would like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF =
WG.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>For those of you in the WG that have not had the =
chance to read this important document, it is available =
at:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>URL:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework=
-05.txt" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf=
-framework-05.txt</a><br>Status:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/" =
target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-fra=
mework/</a><br>Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05" =
target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framewor=
k-05</a><br>Diff:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-framework-=
05" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-=
framework-05</a><br><br clear=3Dall><br>-- =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></body=
></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0430_01D17FD9.4A39D570--


From nobody Thu Mar 17 03:15:18 2016
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Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:15:05 +0800
From: "Dacheng Zhang" <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
To: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <D310A453.3BB81%dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitoring-00.txt
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Subject: [I2nsf] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitoring-00.txt
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Hi,

We have proposed an initial version of the monitoring interface. We tried
to specify the information which should be transferred over such an
interface.

It would be really appreciated if you could have a look and give us
comments.

Cheers

Dacheng

=D4=DA 16-3-17 =CF=C2=CE=E75:51=A3=AC "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>=
 =D0=B4
=C8=EB:

>
>A new version of I-D, draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitoring-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Dacheng Zhang and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:		draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitoring
>Revision:	00
>Title:		An Information Model for the Monitoring of Network Security
>Functions (NSF)
>Document date:	2016-03-17
>Group:		Individual Submission
>Pages:		12
>URL:           =20
>https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitori
>ng-00.txt
>Status:        =20
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitoring/
>Htmlized:      =20
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-i2nsf-info-model-monitoring-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>   In this draft, an information model for the capability interface
>   monitoring network security functions (NSF) is proposed.
>
>
>                 =20
>       =20
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat



From nobody Thu Mar 17 18:24:22 2016
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [I2nsf] Draft agenda for Buenos Aires
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Hi working group!

Linda and I have put together a DRAFT agenda for our meeting in Buenos Aires.

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-i2nsf

We have focused on the things that we ned to do to advance our milestones, but
we have also tried to include all of the requests that we received.

Please look at the agenda and let us know:
- whether we have got it wrong
- if you are unhappy with being labelled to lead any part of the agenda
  (we have named some people without asking them, so read well!)

It is still a while to go before the meeting, but getting the slides to us
before anyone travels would be good because:
- the chairs can review them an let you know about any concerns
- people can download the slides and the drafts to rad on the plane

Thanks,
Linda and Adrian


From nobody Thu Mar 17 20:41:45 2016
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
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--001a1142091a46842a052e4a862b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Adrian,

you're right, I'm traveling but will try and address this asap (definitely
before the week ends). Sorry I'm running between airports...

regards,
John

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks John,
>
>
>
> When this document was discussed in Yokohama (IIRCC) we agreed:
>
> 1. we would adopt a framework draft
>
> 2. this looked like a good candidate
>
> 3. there were some changes needed
>
> 4. we wanted a separate terminology document
>
> 5. we needed the framework to be consistent with the terminology doc
>
>
>
> 1 and 2 are good
>
> For 3, although we can all run rfcdiff, maybe you could send a summary of
> the changes to the list
>
> 4 has a candidate I-D from you (thanks)
>
> For 5 see 3
>
>
>
> I'll be looking at your new revision over the next few days.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the work,
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
> *From:* John Strassner [mailto:strazpdj@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 16 March 2016 23:00
> *To:* i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Cc:* Linda Dunbar; Adrian Farrel
> *Subject:* Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
>
>
>
> Dear chairs,
>
>
>
> with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf of the authors, I
> would like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.
>
>
>
> For those of you in the WG that have not had the chance to read this
> important document, it is available at:
>
>
>
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05
>
>
> --
>
> regards,
>
> John
>



-- 
regards,
John

--001a1142091a46842a052e4a862b
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Adrian,</div><div><br></div><div>you&#39;re right,=
 I&#39;m traveling but will try and address this asap (definitely before th=
e week ends). Sorry I&#39;m running between airports...</div><div><br></div=
><div>regards,</div><div>John</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Adrian Farrel <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">=
adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div lang=3D"EN-GB" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Thanks John,<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">When this =
document was discussed in Yokohama (IIRCC) we agreed:<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">1. we would adopt=
 a framework draft<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;font-size:11pt">2. this looked like a good candidate<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">3. there we=
re some changes needed<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;font-size:11pt">4. we wanted a separate terminology document<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"=
>5. we needed the framework to be consistent with the terminology doc<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,12=
5);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:r=
gb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-s=
ize:11pt">1 and 2 are good<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">For 3, although we can all run rfcdiff, mayb=
e you could send a summary of the changes to the list<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">4 has a candidate=
 I-D from you (thanks)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;font-size:11pt">For 5 see 3<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">I&#39;ll be looking a=
t your new revision over the next few days.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Thanks for the w=
ork,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rg=
b(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-si=
ze:11pt">Adrian<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border-wi=
dth:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-col=
or:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt"><di=
v><div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none=
;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0cm 0c=
m"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;font-size:10pt"> John Strassner [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:strazpdj@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">strazpdj@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> 16 March =
2016 23:00<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; Adrian Farrel<br><b>Subjec=
t:</b> Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework<u></u><u></u=
></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear chairs,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf of the authors, I wo=
uld like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.<u></u><u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">For those of you in the WG that have not had the chance to =
read this important document, it is available at:<u></u><u></u></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://w=
ww.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-0=
5.txt</a><br>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/</a><br>Htmlized=
:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-me=
rged-i2nsf-framework-05" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf=
t-merged-i2nsf-framework-05</a><br>Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-fra=
mework-05" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-merg=
ed-i2nsf-framework-05</a><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">regards,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">John<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature"><div>regards,</div><div>John</div></div>
</div>

--001a1142091a46842a052e4a862b--


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From: "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
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From nobody Mon Mar 21 05:57:45 2016
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From: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: Questions & suggstions to draft-pastor-i2nsf-vnsf-attestation-00
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Cc: ANTONIO AGUSTIN PASTOR PERALES <antonio.pastorperales@telefonica.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, Futianfu <futianfu@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Questions & suggstions to draft-pastor-i2nsf-vnsf-attestation-00
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From nobody Mon Mar 21 13:44:34 2016
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DF224E@dfweml701-chm>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:44:23 -0400
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Call for Agenda Items for Buenos Aires
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I am requesting a slot to present:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-firstmile-00.txt

This draft is a bit drafty; more details will be added.  IMHO this is an 
important part of the I2NSF monitoring function.

On 03/01/2016 11:24 AM, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
> Greetings WG,
>
> Our meeting in Buenos Aires is fast approaching. We have requested a 
> slot for I2NSF.
>
> Please send over requests for agenda time for Buenos Aires.
>
> Please remember that we will give priority to drafts that have already 
> received significant discussion on list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adrian & Linda
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


--------------080008070602050001010605
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    I am requesting a slot to present:<br>
    <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-firstmile-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-firstmile-00.txt</a><br>
    <br>
    This draft is a bit drafty; more details will be added.Â  IMHO this
    is an important part of the I2NSF monitoring function.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/01/2016 11:24 AM, Linda Dunbar
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DF224E@dfweml701-chm"
      type="cite">
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        <p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText">Our meeting in Buenos Aires is fast
          approaching. We have requested a slot for I2NSF.
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText">Please send over requests for agenda
          time for Buenos Aires.
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText">Please remember that we will give
          priority to drafts that have already received significant
          discussion on list.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Adrian &amp; Linda<o:p></o:p></p>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a>
</pre>
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--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657E5AA64dfweml501mbb_--


From nobody Tue Mar 22 09:09:27 2016
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To: "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>
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Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:08:57 -0400
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Subject: [I2nsf] Security event reporting management - the firstMILE
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One of the functions described within the I2NSF environment is 
monitoring security events.  I have not found any IETF work covering 
general security alerts from security defense devices aside from the 
specific DDoS reporting in DOTS.  So I have developed firstMILE:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-firstmile-00.txt

Which proposes a sub/pub model including initial registration for 
security alerts reporting.

At this point the draft is more a skeleton for hanging how the three 
components work:

Registration of security device to monitor(s).
Subscription of monitors for specific reporting.
Publication of security reports to subscribed monitors.

I have covered some of the requirements for these components.  I bring 
this to the I2NSF workgroup for:

Is this something the I2NSF wg should talk on?
And am I correct that currently security alert reporting is not covered 
within the IETF.

For the pub portion, I hold that the requirements align with the DOTS 
requirements, other than the bi-directional communications needs.  Do 
others agree?  If so, I have a DOTS draft:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-dots-ssls-02.txt

DOTS Secure Session Layer Services

This introduces a real session layer, something really not present in 
the IETF stack, that provides a set of services.  SSLS and its services 
are laid out in:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-ssls-00.txt

Sue and I developed the design for SSLS, as it is broadly applicable in 
a number of areas under i2nsf.

Two other drafts that fit into this architecture are:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-sse-03.txt
and
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-gpcomp-00.txt

SO.....

I open the floor to discussion.

I would be interested in how others see this part of the security 
defense environment.

I am interested in how others see SLS and particularly SSLS and its use 
for firstMILE pub.  I have requested a slot in the meeting to cover my work.



From nobody Tue Mar 22 17:11:48 2016
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From: John Strassner <strazpdj@gmail.com>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, John Strassner <strazpdj@gmail.com>
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Cc: i2nsf@ietf.org, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
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Hi Adrian,

sorry for the delay. You asked me to summarize the changes; here is
my view of the main points that were changed.

  - Generic Changes
    - clarification of purpose of I2NSF
    - clarified packet- and flow-based processing (e.g., "This draft
      proposes that a rule provisioning interface to NSFs can be
      developed on a packet- or flow-based paradigm.")
    -  alignment with terminology draft

  - Specific Changes
    - change from subject-object-action-function to ECA policy rules
    - stating that packet- and flow-based NSFs can be standardized
      by using Event - Condition - Action (ECA) policy rule sets
    - definition of what an event, condition, and action mean in the
      context of policy rules, with examples
    - definition of what a policy rule is, and how it is used in I2NSF
    - clarifying that the rule sets and software interfaces of I2NSF
      aim to standardize the form and function of profile and signature
      files while supporting vendor-specific functions of each
    - more detail on the NSF Facing (Capability Layer) Interface
    - clarification of vendor facing interface
    - specification of additional security requirements
    - more detail about vendor registration of their NSFs


regards,
John



On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks John,
>
>
>
> When this document was discussed in Yokohama (IIRCC) we agreed:
>
> 1. we would adopt a framework draft
>
> 2. this looked like a good candidate
>
> 3. there were some changes needed
>
> 4. we wanted a separate terminology document
>
> 5. we needed the framework to be consistent with the terminology doc
>
>
>
> 1 and 2 are good
>
> For 3, although we can all run rfcdiff, maybe you could send a summary of
> the changes to the list
>
> 4 has a candidate I-D from you (thanks)
>
> For 5 see 3
>
>
>
> I'll be looking at your new revision over the next few days.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the work,
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
> *From:* John Strassner [mailto:strazpdj@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 16 March 2016 23:00
> *To:* i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Cc:* Linda Dunbar; Adrian Farrel
> *Subject:* Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framework
>
>
>
> Dear chairs,
>
>
>
> with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf of the authors, I
> would like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.
>
>
>
> For those of you in the WG that have not had the chance to read this
> important document, it is available at:
>
>
>
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05
>
>
> --
>
> regards,
>
> John
>



-- 
regards,
John

--047d7b3a82248a9264052eac2c40
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Adrian,</div><div><br></div><div>sorry for the del=
ay. You asked me to summarize the changes; here is</div><div>my view of the=
 main points that were changed.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 - Generic C=
hanges</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - clarification of purpose of I2NSF</di=
v><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - clarified packet- and flow-based processing (e.=
g., &quot;This draft</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 proposes that=
 a rule provisioning interface to NSFs can be<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 developed on a packet- or flow-based paradigm.&quot;)</div><div>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -=C2=A0 alignment with terminology draft</div><div><br></di=
v><div>=C2=A0 - Specific Changes</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - change from=
 subject-object-action-function to ECA policy rules</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 - stating that packet- and flow-based NSFs can be standardized</div>=
<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 by using Event - Condition - Action (EC=
A) policy rule sets</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - definition of what an ev=
ent, condition, and action mean in the</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 context of policy rules, with examples</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
- definition of what a policy rule is, and how it is used in I2NSF</div><di=
v>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - clarifying that the rule sets and software interface=
s of I2NSF</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 aim to standardize the =
form and function of profile and signature</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 files while supporting vendor-specific functions of each</div><di=
v>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - more detail on the NSF Facing (Capability Layer) Int=
erface</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - clarification of vendor facing interf=
ace</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - specification of additional security req=
uirements</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - more detail about vendor registrat=
ion of their NSFs</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><di=
v>John<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Adrian =
Farrel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue"><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Thanks John,<u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font=
-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,=
73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11=
pt">When this document was discussed in Yokohama (IIRCC) we agreed:<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">1. =
we would adopt a framework draft<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">2. this looked like a good candidate<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,7=
3,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11p=
t">3. there were some changes needed<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">4. we wanted a separate terminolog=
y document<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;f=
ont-size:11pt">5. we needed the framework to be consistent with the termino=
logy doc<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;fon=
t-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;font-size:11pt">1 and 2 are good<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">For 3, although we can all r=
un rfcdiff, maybe you could send a summary of the changes to the list<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,12=
5);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">4=
 has a candidate I-D from you (thanks)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">For 5 see 3<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);f=
ont-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt">I&#39=
;ll be looking at your new revision over the next few days.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"=
>Thanks for the work,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;font-size:11pt">Adrian<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div st=
yle=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;border-style:none none none =
solid;border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor blue;padding:0cm =
0cm 0cm 4pt"><div><div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style=
:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;pa=
dding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;font-size:10pt"> John Strassner [mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:strazpdj@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">strazpdj@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sen=
t:</b> 16 March 2016 23:00<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; Adrian Far=
rel<br><b>Subject:</b> Request for WG Adoption of draft-merged-i2nsf-framew=
ork<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear chairs,<u></u><u></u></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">with the most recent release of this draft, on behalf of=
 the authors, I would like to request a Call for Adoption by the I2NSF WG.<=
u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">For those of you in the WG that have not =
had the chance to read this important document, it is available at:<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a=
 href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-=
05.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merged=
-i2nsf-framework-05.txt</a><br>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework/" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merged-i2nsf-framewor=
k/</a><br>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05</a><br>Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraf=
t-merged-i2nsf-framework-05" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff=
?url2=3Ddraft-merged-i2nsf-framework-05</a><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <u>=
</u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">regards,<u></u><u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><=
div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div>regards,</div><div>John</div></div>
</div>

--047d7b3a82248a9264052eac2c40--


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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Security event reporting management - the firstMILE
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I2NSF people: 

The I2NSF gap analysis and I2RS work on management flows during DDoS or
network attacks (I'm a co-chair) cause me to realize there was something
different during periods of outage/network attack.  The growth of this is
expanding beyond the management interfaces to BGP.   BGP's Flow
Specification is being expanded to spread flow filters (RFC5575++++)
(another WG I co-chair) that help stop DDoS attacks in carriers.   After
being hit with the perfect storm of needs in 3 WGs, Bob and I looked at the
problem (draft-hares-i2nsf-mgtflow) and solutions. 

I suspect the first thing to look at is the problem and provide us feedback.
If you want to discuss the solutions, we are glad to chat about it as well. 

Sue 


-----Original Message-----
From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Moskowitz
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:09 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Subject: [I2nsf] Security event reporting management - the firstMILE

One of the functions described within the I2NSF environment is monitoring
security events.  I have not found any IETF work covering general security
alerts from security defense devices aside from the specific DDoS reporting
in DOTS.  So I have developed firstMILE:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-firstmile-00.txt

Which proposes a sub/pub model including initial registration for security
alerts reporting.

At this point the draft is more a skeleton for hanging how the three
components work:

Registration of security device to monitor(s).
Subscription of monitors for specific reporting.
Publication of security reports to subscribed monitors.

I have covered some of the requirements for these components.  I bring this
to the I2NSF workgroup for:

Is this something the I2NSF wg should talk on?
And am I correct that currently security alert reporting is not covered
within the IETF.

For the pub portion, I hold that the requirements align with the DOTS
requirements, other than the bi-directional communications needs.  Do others
agree?  If so, I have a DOTS draft:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-dots-ssls-02.txt

DOTS Secure Session Layer Services

This introduces a real session layer, something really not present in the
IETF stack, that provides a set of services.  SSLS and its services are laid
out in:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hares-i2nsf-ssls-00.txt

Sue and I developed the design for SSLS, as it is broadly applicable in a
number of areas under i2nsf.

Two other drafts that fit into this architecture are:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-sse-03.txt
and
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moskowitz-gpcomp-00.txt

SO.....

I open the floor to discussion.

I would be interested in how others see this part of the security defense
environment.

I am interested in how others see SLS and particularly SSLS and its use for
firstMILE pub.  I have requested a slot in the meeting to cover my work.


_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
I2nsf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf


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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
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Subject: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,

We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01


We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent ne=
ed for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categorie=
s and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address comments/questions on 0=
0 draft from the WG.

Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by=
 an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another=
 provider in 2013;
2) Growing in frequency.
3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud=
 services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, a=
nd BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large vol=
ume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-conn=
ection links.

This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, a=
nd may extend to more general security information exchange. We need mechan=
isms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs)=
 and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real t=
ime, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid =
protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mi=
tigation.

We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:

1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS capabilit=
ies from one provider to another provider.

2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for mit=
igation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, exe=
cute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.

3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS st=
atus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner p=
roviders.

4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific =
DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated =
mitigation whenever possible.

We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).

We'd like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, =
and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for depl=
oyment.

Thanks,
Luyuan






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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigati=
on-api-01 on 3/21.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2=
nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-f=
ang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are o=
bserving and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitiga=
tion. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also addre=
ss comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have see=
n: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">1) Growing in volume, e.g=
., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, while=
 over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">2) Growing in frequency. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">3) Using Cloud services t=
o launch major attacks, especially when some cloud services do not impose b=
andwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">4) Growing in sophisticat=
ion: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent to amplify =
the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">5) Growing attack to Inte=
r-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large volume attack can disrupt al=
l cloud services traversing through the inter-connection links.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DD=
oS attack mitigation, and may extend to more general security information e=
xchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud S=
ervice Providers (CSPs) and Network
 Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time, automat=
ed information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid protective r=
esponse and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We propose the following categories of basic set of =
Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Capability information exchange: Support &quot;Quer=
y&quot; the DDoS capabilities from one provider to another provider.<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Mitigation Request and response: One provider can &=
quot;Request&quot; for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation re=
quest can ack request, execute mitigation procedure, &nbsp;and respond back=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to=
 monitor DDoS status and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status repo=
rts to partner providers.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query=
 for a specific DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perf=
orm coordinated mitigation whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also propose to use REST API format (examples in =
the draft).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at I=
ETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contributions to progress the draf=
t and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:58:32 +0800
From: "Dacheng Zhang" <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
To: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <D31ECCD4.3C273%dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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Should this be discussed in dots as well?

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:  I2nsf <i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Luyuan Fang
<lufang@microsoft.com>
=C8=D5=C6=DA:  2016=C4=EA3=D4=C228=C8=D5 =D0=C7=C6=DA=D2=BB =C9=CF=CE=E711:44
=D6=C1:  "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
=B3=AD=CB=CD:  "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda Dunbar
<linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
=D6=F7=CC=E2:  [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,
=20
We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i
-01
=20
We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent
need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose
categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address
comments/questions on 00 draft from the WG.
=20
Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by
an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another
provider in 2013;=20
2) Growing in frequency.
3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud
services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS,
and BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large
volume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the
inter-connection links.
=20
This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation,
and may extend to more general security information exchange. We need
mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers
(CSPs) and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support
real time, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve
rapid protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS
attack mitigation.=20
=20
We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
1)     Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS
capabilities from one provider to another provider.

2)     Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for
mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request,
execute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.

3)     Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS
status and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner
providers.=20

4)     Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific
DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated
mitigation whenever possible.

=20
We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).
=20
We=A1=AFd like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas,
and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for
deployment.
=20
Thanks,
Luyuan
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
_______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
 14px; font-family: =CB=CE=CC=E5, sans-serif;"><div>Should this be discussed in dots=
 as well?</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTT=
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um none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: </span> I2=
nsf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org">i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&g=
t; on behalf of Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com">lufang=
@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C8=D5=C6=DA: </span> 2016=C4=
=EA3=D4=C228=C8=D5 =D0=C7=C6=DA=D2=BB =C9=CF=CE=E711:44<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=D6=C1: </span> "<a =
href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@i=
etf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=B3=AD=CB=CD: </sp=
an> "<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>" &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;, Linda Dunbar &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<b=
r><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=D6=F7=CC=E2: </span> [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inte=
r-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v=3D"urn:sch=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#=
954F72"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, Adrian, and=
 all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21=
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01">https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoPlainText">We extend mor=
e on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent need for automat=
ed inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categories and formats o=
f basic set of APIs. We also address comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen: <o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">1) Growing in volume=
, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, w=
hile over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">2) Growing in =
frequency. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">3) U=
sing Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud serv=
ices do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">4) Growing in =
sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent t=
o amplify the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">5) Growing att=
ack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large volume attack can =
disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-connection links.<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">T=
his draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, and=
 may extend to more general security information exchange. We need mechanism=
s which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs) and=
 Network
 Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time, automat=
ed information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid protective re=
sponse and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-in=
dent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; fon=
t-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N=
ew Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Capability information exchange: Support "Query=
" the DDoS capabilities from one provider to another provider.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore"=
>2)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: norma=
l; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Mitigation Request and response: One provider c=
an "Request" for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request c=
an ack request, execute mitigation procedure, &nbsp;and respond back.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight=
: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman=
';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provide=
r to monitor DDoS status and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status r=
eports to partner providers.
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-in=
dent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">4)<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; fon=
t-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times N=
ew Roman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to q=
uery for a specific DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and p=
erform coordinated mitigation whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also propose to use RES=
T API format (examples in the draft).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to discuss on the lis=
t, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contributions to pro=
gress the draft and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________
I2nsf mailing list
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a>
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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
To: Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, dots <dots@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Yes! Thx, Dacheng.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Adding DOTS here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dacheng Zhang [mailto:dacheng.zdc@aliba=
ba-inc.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;lufang@microsoft.com&gt;; i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Linda Dunbar &lt;linda.dunbar@huawei.com&gt=
;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Should =
this be discussed in dots as well?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;=
color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">I2nsf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bo=
unces@ietf.org">i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Luyuan Fang &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=C8=
=D5=C6=DA</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">2016</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" styl=
e=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">3</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=
=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"color:black">28</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" styl=
e=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" styl=
e=3D"color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=D0=C7=
=C6=DA=D2=BB</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=C9=CF=
=CE=E7</span><span style=3D"color:black">11:44<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=D6=
=C1</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.o=
rg">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=B3=
=AD=CB=CD</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddo=
g.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.=
co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;, Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lind=
a.dunbar@huawei.com">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=D6=
=F7=CC=E2</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">[I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud=
-ddos-mitigation-api-01<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi Linda, Adrian, and al=
l,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We posted draft-fang-i2n=
sf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://na01.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml=
%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7=
clufang%40microsoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141=
af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3DloMaidhDHo1EelaZJPjfs7hGhwuTV70Db14iUr8o=
Elc%3d">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitig=
ation-api-01</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:black">We extend more on the=
 DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent need for automated inte=
r-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categories and formats of basi=
c set of APIs. We also address comments/questions
 on 00 draft from the WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Characteristics of the D=
DoS attacks that we have seen:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed=
 by an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by anot=
her provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">2) Growing in frequency.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cl=
oud services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS=
, and BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large =
volume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-c=
onnection links.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">This draft is focus on I=
nter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, and may extend to more ge=
neral security information exchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DD=
oS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers
 (CSPs) and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support=
 real time, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve=
 rapid protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS at=
tack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We propose the following=
 categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ig=
nore">1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:black">Capability infor=
mation exchange: Support &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS capabilities from one p=
rovider to another provider.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ig=
nore">2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:black">Mitigation Reque=
st and response: One provider can &quot;Request&quot; for mitigation. The p=
rovider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, execute mitigatio=
n procedure, &nbsp;and respond back.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ig=
nore">3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:black">Monitoring and R=
eporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS status and mitigation proc=
esses; and provide DDoS status reports to partner providers.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ig=
nore">4)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:black">Knowledge sharin=
g: Allow partner providers to query for a specific DDoS related data to enh=
ance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated mitigation whenever poss=
ible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We also propose to use R=
EST API format (examples in the draft).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We=A1=AFd like to discus=
s on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contrib=
utions to progress the draft and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">_______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing l=
ist
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org">I2nsf@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://na0=
1.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmail=
man%2flistinfo%2fi2nsf&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c22f6d7=
500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=
=3Due7jhjBJb9F681B6xEza9ASJ%2b1MfCy%2ftdlD1SYWKZUQ%3d">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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Cc: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, dots <dots@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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this harkens back to (again):
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6046/

The abstract / intro to your document talks about some specifics for
problems, which generally all users of the network have. I don't see
how/why solving for 'cloud' is different than solving for 'cableco'.

DOTS proposes similar 'tell people I need help' bits.
INCH did this with RID in ~2010.
Arbor does this with fingerprint-sharing.

I don't know that a third or fourth methodology is really going to move the
needle here, is it?


On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:17 AM, Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Yes! Thx, Dacheng.
>
> Adding DOTS here.
>
> Luyuan
>
>
>
> *From:* Dacheng Zhang [mailto:dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 27, 2016 8:59 PM
> *To:* Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Cc:* adrian@olddog.co.uk; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-0=
1
>
>
>
> Should this be discussed in dots as well?
>
>
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: *I2nsf <i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf o=
f Luyuan Fang <
> lufang@microsoft.com>
> *=E6=97=A5=E6=9C=9F: *2016=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 =E6=98=9F=E6=9C=
=9F=E4=B8=80 =E4=B8=8A=E5=8D=8811:44
> *=E8=87=B3: *"i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: *"adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda =
Dunbar <
> linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: *[I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigatio=
n-api-01
>
>
>
> Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,
>
>
>
> We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-=
api-01
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools=
.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&data=
=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72=
f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DloMaidhDHo1EelaZJPjfs7hGhwuTV70D=
b14iUr8oElc%3d>
>
>
>
> We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent
> need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose
> categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address
> comments/questions on 00 draft from the WG.
>
>
>
> Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
>
> 1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed
> by an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by
> another provider in 2013;
>
> 2) Growing in frequency.
>
> 3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some
> cloud services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
>
> 4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS,
> and BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
>
> 5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large
> volume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the
> inter-connection links.
>
>
>
> This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation,
> and may extend to more general security information exchange. We need
> mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Provider=
s
> (CSPs) and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must suppor=
t
> real time, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achiev=
e
> rapid protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS
> attack mitigation.
>
>
>
> We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
>
> 1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS
> capabilities from one provider to another provider.
>
> 2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for
> mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request=
,
> execute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.
>
> 3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS
> status and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partn=
er
> providers.
>
> 4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a
> specific DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform
> coordinated mitigation whenever possible.
>
>
>
> We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).
>
>
>
> We=E2=80=99d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open =
to ideas,
> and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for
> deployment.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luyuan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.i=
etf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fi2nsf&data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.co=
m%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=
&sdata=3Due7jhjBJb9F681B6xEza9ASJ%2b1MfCy%2ftdlD1SYWKZUQ%3d>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dots mailing list
> Dots@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">thi=
s harkens back to (again):<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ie=
tf.org/doc/rfc6046/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6046/</a></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">The abstract / intro to your docu=
ment talks about some specifics for problems, which generally all users of =
the network have. I don&#39;t see how/why solving for &#39;cloud&#39; is di=
fferent than solving for &#39;cableco&#39;.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">DOTS proposes similar &#39;tell people I need help&#39=
; bits.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">INCH di=
d this with RID in ~2010.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-s=
ize:small">Arbor does this with fingerprint-sharing.</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-size:small">I don&#39;t know that a third or fourth methodo=
logy is really going to move the needle here, is it?</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:17 AM, Luyu=
an Fang <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Yes! Thx, Dacheng.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Adding DOTS here.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Luyuan<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_-6524107242562387334__MailEndCompose"><=
span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></a></p>
<span></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dacheng Zhang [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com" target=3D"_blank">dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com=
</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" target=
=3D"_blank">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@=
olddog.co.uk</a>; Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Should =
this be discussed in dots as well?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;=
color:black">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">I2nsf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bo=
unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf =
of Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank=
">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=
=97=A5=E6=9C=9F</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">2016</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" styl=
e=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"color:b=
lack">3</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black"=
>=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D"color:black">28</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=98=
=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=B8=80</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E4=B8=
=8A=E5=8D=88</span><span style=3D"color:black">11:44<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E8=
=87=B3</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=
=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddo=
g.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;, Lin=
da Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">=
linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E4=
=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">[I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud=
-ddos-mitigation-api-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi Linda, Adrian, and al=
l,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We posted draft-fang-i2n=
sf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://na01.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml=
%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7=
clufang%40microsoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141=
af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3DloMaidhDHo1EelaZJPjfs7hGhwuTV70Db14iUr8o=
Elc%3d" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inte=
r-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we =
are observing and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS m=
itigation. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also =
address comments/questions
 on 00 draft from the WG.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Characteristics of the D=
DoS attacks that we have seen:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed=
 by an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by anot=
her provider in 2013;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">2) Growing in frequency.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cl=
oud services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS=
, and BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large =
volume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-c=
onnection links.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">This draft is focus on I=
nter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, and may extend to more ge=
neral security information exchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DD=
oS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers
 (CSPs) and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support=
 real time, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve=
 rapid protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS at=
tack mitigation.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We propose the following=
 categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in">
<u></u><span style=3D"color:black"><span>1)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"color:black">Capability informat=
ion exchange: Support &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS capabilities from one prov=
ider to another provider.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in">
<u></u><span style=3D"color:black"><span>2)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"color:black">Mitigation Request =
and response: One provider can &quot;Request&quot; for mitigation. The prov=
ider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, execute mitigation p=
rocedure, =C2=A0and respond back.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in">
<u></u><span style=3D"color:black"><span>3)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"color:black">Monitoring and Repo=
rting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS status and mitigation process=
es; and provide DDoS status reports to partner providers.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in">
<u></u><span style=3D"color:black"><span>4)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span style=3D"color:black">Knowledge sharing: =
Allow partner providers to query for a specific DDoS related data to enhanc=
e their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated mitigation whenever possibl=
e.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We also propose to use R=
EST API format (examples in the draft).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We=E2=80=99d like to dis=
cuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome cont=
ributions to progress the draft and make it usable for deployment.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Luyuan<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">_______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing l=
ist
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">I2nsf@ietf.org</a> <a h=
ref=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fw=
ww.ietf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fi2nsf&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40micr=
osoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011=
db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3Due7jhjBJb9F681B6xEza9ASJ%2b1MfCy%2ftdlD1SYWKZUQ%3d" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

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From: "Roland Dobbins" <rdobbins@arbor.net>
To: "Christopher Morrow" <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 23:15:51 +0700
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Cc: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, dots <dots@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>, Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On 29 Mar 2016, at 22:52, Christopher Morrow wrote:

> I don't see how/why solving for 'cloud' is different than solving for 
> 'cableco'.

Correct.  Which is why the use-cases in draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-01 are 
archetypes which apply to *all* different types of networks; they're 
just different signaling/operational models and node types.

This is clearly demonstrated in the .pdf preso for 
draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-00 (soon to be updated for -01), which 
demonstrates multiple variations on a single theme:

'Use-cases . . . are not exhaustive, are illustrative.'

Any of the networks depicted could be transit backbones, hosters, 
'cloud', VPS, broadband access, colo, ASPs, CDNs, et. al.

> Arbor does this with fingerprint-sharing.

Cloud Signaling, which is relatively new, is a bit closer, but there's 
definitely some overlap.

But those are proprietary, and folks want an open standard so that they 
can mix-and-match at will - which is as it should be.

> I don't know that a third or fourth methodology is really going to 
> move the needle here, is it?

Concur 100%.  Left hand, meet right hand.

;>

This is not an API type of application - it rises to the level of a 
protocol.

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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Thread-Topic: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 
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LuYuan,

DOTS people pointed out that the request for help in mitigating DDoS  betwe=
en Providers  is not that much different from an end point requesting for h=
elp in mitigating DDoS. While you can continue the debate on why request fo=
r DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the DOTS mailing list, =
we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to piece out the portio=
n from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope.

With a more close-up look at your draft, it seems to me that you also want =
to specify the interfaces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between op=
erators (or Domains). The  Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules to rest=
rict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and the capa=
bility inquiry from one domain to the other.
This portion might fit to the I2NSF Service Layer  Interface.  While DOTS i=
s signaling between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one=
 party to specify the rules/policies to the other party on how to treat  th=
eir specific traffic.

If you agree with my analysis,  you can elaborate this aspect for  I2NSF WG=
.  That means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another=
 domain on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.

As I2NSF is converging to Event- Condition - Action paradigm, do you think =
the "Security Object" of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the f=
ollowing format:


o   Event ,

o   Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for specific ports, or flows, pl=
us contextual condition) , and

o   Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invoking a function, etc)
Thanks, Linda




From: Luyuan Fang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: Linda Dunbar; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,

We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01


We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent ne=
ed for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categorie=
s and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address comments/questions on 0=
0 draft from the WG.

Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by=
 an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another=
 provider in 2013;
2) Growing in frequency.
3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud=
 services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, a=
nd BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large vol=
ume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-conn=
ection links.

This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, a=
nd may extend to more general security information exchange. We need mechan=
isms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs)=
 and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real t=
ime, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid =
protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mi=
tigation.

We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:

1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS capabilit=
ies from one provider to another provider.

2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for mit=
igation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, exe=
cute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.

3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS st=
atus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner p=
roviders.

4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific =
DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated =
mitigation whenever possible.

We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).

We'd like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, =
and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for depl=
oyment.

Thanks,
Luyuan






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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">LuYuan, <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">DOTS people pointed ou=
t that the request for help in mitigating DDoS &nbsp;between Providers &nbs=
p;is not that much different from an end point requesting for help in mitig=
ating DDoS. While you can continue the debate
 on why request for DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the D=
OTS mailing list, we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to pi=
ece out the portion from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">With a more close-up l=
ook at your draft, it seems to me that you also want to specify the interfa=
ces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between operators (or Domains). =
The &nbsp;Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules
 to restrict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and =
the capability inquiry from one domain to the other. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This portion might fit=
 to the I2NSF Service Layer &nbsp;Interface. &nbsp;While DOTS is signaling =
between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one party to sp=
ecify the rules/policies to the other party on
 how to treat &nbsp;their specific traffic. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If you agree with my a=
nalysis, &nbsp;you can elaborate this aspect for &nbsp;I2NSF WG. &nbsp;That=
 means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another domain=
 on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I2NSF is converging=
 to Event- Condition &#8211; Action paradigm, do you think the &#8220;Secur=
ity Object&#8221; of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the follo=
wing format:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;marg=
in-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;lin=
e-height:115%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Event ,&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;mar=
gin-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;li=
ne-height:115%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for s=
pecific ports, or flows, plus contextual condition) , and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margi=
n-right:0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line=
-height:115%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invok=
ing a function, etc)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Luyuan F=
ang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; adrian@olddog.co.uk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigati=
on-api-01 on 3/21.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2=
nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-f=
ang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are o=
bserving and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitiga=
tion. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also addre=
ss comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have see=
n: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">1) Growing in volume, e.g=
., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, while=
 over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">2) Growing in frequency. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">3) Using Cloud services t=
o launch major attacks, especially when some cloud services do not impose b=
andwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">4) Growing in sophisticat=
ion: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent to amplify =
the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">5) Growing attack to Inte=
r-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large volume attack can disrupt al=
l cloud services traversing through the inter-connection links.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DD=
oS attack mitigation, and may extend to more general security information e=
xchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud S=
ervice Providers (CSPs) and Network
 Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time, automat=
ed information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid protective r=
esponse and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We propose the following categories of basic set of =
Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">1)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Capability information exchange: Support &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS =
capabilities from one provider to another provider.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">2)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Mitigation Request and response: One provider can &quot;Request&quot=
; for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack req=
uest, execute mitigation procedure, &nbsp;and respond back.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">3)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS sta=
tus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner pr=
oviders.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">4)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific D=
DoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated m=
itigation whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also propose to use REST API format (examples in =
the draft).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at I=
ETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contributions to progress the draf=
t and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
To: Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>, Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Dots] [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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Cc: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, dots <dots@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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Hi Roland,

Thx for your discussion. I pretty much explained our use case in the last r=
eply to Christopher.
No argument, draft-ietf-dots-use-cases is a good draft.
In addition to signaling mechanism, we also need more general ways to excha=
nge especially between providers.=20
Inter-provider is very different from intra-region/inter-region within our =
own Cloud/Networks, and it is different from between provider and individua=
l customers.=20

Thanks,
Luyuan

-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Dobbins [mailto:rdobbins@arbor.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:16 AM
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Cc: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>; Roman D. Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; i2=
nsf@ietf.org; dots <dots@ietf.org>; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>;=
 Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>; adrian@olddog.co.uk; Dacheng =
Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Subject: Re: [Dots] [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01

On 29 Mar 2016, at 22:52, Christopher Morrow wrote:

> I don't see how/why solving for 'cloud' is different than solving for=20
> 'cableco'.

Correct.  Which is why the use-cases in draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-01 are ar=
chetypes which apply to *all* different types of networks; they're just dif=
ferent signaling/operational models and node types.

This is clearly demonstrated in the .pdf preso for
draft-ietf-dots-use-cases-00 (soon to be updated for -01), which demonstrat=
es multiple variations on a single theme:

'Use-cases . . . are not exhaustive, are illustrative.'

Any of the networks depicted could be transit backbones, hosters, 'cloud', =
VPS, broadband access, colo, ASPs, CDNs, et. al.

> Arbor does this with fingerprint-sharing.

Cloud Signaling, which is relatively new, is a bit closer, but there's defi=
nitely some overlap.

But those are proprietary, and folks want an open standard so that they can=
 mix-and-match at will - which is as it should be.

> I don't know that a third or fourth methodology is really going to=20
> move the needle here, is it?

Concur 100%.  Left hand, meet right hand.

;>

This is not an API type of application - it rises to the level of a protoco=
l.

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 
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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 03:24:11 +0000
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Cc: Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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Hi Linda,

Thank you for highlighting the important aspects here, very much appreciate=
d.
See in-line my comments marked with [lf].

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:15 PM
To: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>; Roman=
 D. Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Subject: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf=
-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

LuYuan,

DOTS people pointed out that the request for help in mitigating DDoS  betwe=
en Providers  is not that much different from an end point requesting for h=
elp in mitigating DDoS. While you can continue the debate on why request fo=
r DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the DOTS mailing list, =
we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to piece out the portio=
n from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope.

[lf] Inter-provider cases are VERY different than inter-region within ourse=
lves, or inter-connecting to end customers. To be more granular, even Inter=
-provider case varies between each partner provider we are working with. Bu=
t at least we want to have a set of standard API we can based on when worki=
ng between providers.

With a more close-up look at your draft, it seems to me that you also want =
to specify the interfaces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between op=
erators (or Domains). The  Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules to rest=
rict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and the capa=
bility inquiry from one domain to the other.
This portion might fit to the I2NSF Service Layer  Interface.  While DOTS i=
s signaling between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one=
 party to specify the rules/policies to the other party on how to treat  th=
eir specific traffic.

If you agree with my analysis,  you can elaborate this aspect for  I2NSF WG=
.  That means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another=
 domain on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.

[lf] Very much agree with you, Linda. Actually, the APIs we are talking abo=
ut, not necessarily limited to DDoS mitigation, it is about security policy=
 in general. And the API is not only used when DDoS attack happens, it is u=
sed to exchange information before and after the attacks, and at any time.

For example, we work with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchang=
e security policy info at the time the connection is set up, or when this n=
ew API implemented by both sides. The info can include: Here is our securit=
y capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to block certain traf=
fic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we can do the same =
for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in certain networks, =
want share with you on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, =
etc. We expect the partners share the same with us. Or even let's agree on =
a combined mitigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API=
, or possible predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit move, etc.)

As I2NSF is converging to Event- Condition - Action paradigm, do you think =
the "Security Object" of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the f=
ollowing format:


o   Event ,

o   Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for specific ports, or flows, pl=
us contextual condition) , and

o   Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invoking a function, etc)
[lf] Yes.

Thanks, Linda

Thanks,
Luyuan

From: Luyuan Fang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Cc: Linda Dunbar; adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,

We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftoo=
ls.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&da=
ta=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c0ff928ed5b13415cded008d35827eb98%7c=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2bRo6twc5iJhrVZNqQe3LvcK6DwUA=
xlycOK4Xsn%2bGUos%3d>


We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent ne=
ed for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categorie=
s and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address comments/questions on 0=
0 draft from the WG.

Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by=
 an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another=
 provider in 2013;
2) Growing in frequency.
3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud=
 services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, a=
nd BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large vol=
ume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-conn=
ection links.

This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, a=
nd may extend to more general security information exchange. We need mechan=
isms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs)=
 and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real t=
ime, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid =
protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mi=
tigation.

We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:

1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS capabilit=
ies from one provider to another provider.

2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for mit=
igation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, exe=
cute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.

3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS st=
atus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner p=
roviders.

4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific =
DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated =
mitigation whenever possible.

We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).

We'd like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, =
and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for depl=
oyment.

Thanks,
Luyuan






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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Linda,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank you for highligh=
ting the important aspects here, very much appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">S</span><span style=3D=
"color:#1F497D">ee in-line my comments marked with [lf].<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawe=
i.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;lufang@microsoft.com&gt;; i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Tobias Gondrom &lt;tobias.gondrom@gondrom.o=
rg&gt;; Roman D. Danyliw &lt;rdd@cert.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fan=
g-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">LuYuan, <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">DOTS people pointed ou=
t that the request for help in mitigating DDoS &nbsp;between Providers &nbs=
p;is not that much different from an end point requesting for help in mitig=
ating DDoS. While you can continue the debate
 on why request for DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the D=
OTS mailing list, we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to pi=
ece out the portion from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Inter-provider case=
s are VERY different than inter-region within ourselves, or inter-connectin=
g to end customers. To be more granular, even Inter-provider case varies be=
tween each partner provider we are working
 with. But at least we want to have a set of standard API we can based on w=
hen working between providers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">With a more close-up l=
ook at your draft, it seems to me that you also want to specify the interfa=
ces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between operators (or Domains). =
The &nbsp;Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules
 to restrict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and =
the capability inquiry from one domain to the other. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This portion might fit=
 to the I2NSF Service Layer &nbsp;Interface. &nbsp;While DOTS is signaling =
between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one party to sp=
ecify the rules/policies to the other party on
 how to treat &nbsp;their specific traffic. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If you agree with my a=
nalysis, &nbsp;you can elaborate this aspect for &nbsp;I2NSF WG. &nbsp;That=
 means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another domain=
 on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Very much agree wit=
h you, Linda. Actually, the APIs we are talking about, not necessarily limi=
ted to DDoS mitigation, it is about security policy in general. And the API=
 is not only used when DDoS attack happens,
 it is used to exchange information before and after the attacks, and at an=
y time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">For example, we work wit=
h an ISP in a different country, we like to exchange security policy info a=
t the time the connection is set up, or when this new API implemented by bo=
th sides. The info can include: Here
 is our security capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to blo=
ck certain traffic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we c=
an do the same for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in cer=
tain networks, want share with you
 on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, etc. We expect the =
partners share the same with us. Or even let&#8217;s agree on a combined mi=
tigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API, or possible=
 predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit
 move, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I2NSF is converging=
 to Event- Condition &#8211; Action paradigm, do you think the &#8220;Secur=
ity Object&#8221; of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the follo=
wing format:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Event ,&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for s=
pecific ports, or flows, plus contextual condition) , and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invok=
ing a function, etc)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Yes.</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Luyuan Fang [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
ufang@microsoft.com">mailto:lufang@microsoft.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@oldd=
og.co.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigati=
on-api-01 on 3/21.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook=
.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cl=
oud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c0f=
f928ed5b13415cded008d35827eb98%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;s=
data=3D%2bRo6twc5iJhrVZNqQe3LvcK6DwUAxlycOK4Xsn%2bGUos%3d">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are o=
bserving and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitiga=
tion. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also addre=
ss comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have see=
n: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">1) Growing in volume, e.g=
., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, while=
 over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">2) Growing in frequency. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">3) Using Cloud services t=
o launch major attacks, especially when some cloud services do not impose b=
andwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">4) Growing in sophisticat=
ion: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent to amplify =
the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">5) Growing attack to Inte=
r-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large volume attack can disrupt al=
l cloud services traversing through the inter-connection links.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DD=
oS attack mitigation, and may extend to more general security information e=
xchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud S=
ervice Providers (CSPs) and Network
 Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time, automat=
ed information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid protective r=
esponse and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We propose the following categories of basic set of =
Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">1)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Capability information exchange: Support &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS =
capabilities from one provider to another provider.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">2)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Mitigation Request and response: One provider can &quot;Request&quot=
; for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack req=
uest, execute mitigation procedure, &nbsp;and respond back.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">3)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS sta=
tus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner pr=
oviders.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">4)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific D=
DoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated m=
itigation whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also propose to use REST API format (examples in =
the draft).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at I=
ETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contributions to progress the draf=
t and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Cc: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, dots <dots@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Christopher,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments. See in-line with [lf].
>
>
>
> *From:* christopher.morrow@gmail.com [mailto:christopher.morrow@gmail.com=
]
> *On Behalf Of *Christopher Morrow
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:53 AM
> *To:* Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
> *Cc:* Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org; dots <
> dots@ietf.org>; Roman D. Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; adrian@olddog.co.uk;
> Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>; Linda Dunbar <
> linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Dots] [I2nsf]
> draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
>
>
>
> this harkens back to (again):
>   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6046/
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fdatat=
racker.ietf.org%2fdoc%2frfc6046%2f&data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%=
7c17099a52425a4092e6b608d357ea2c73%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s=
data=3Da0oVARXGMvi8f92DGcNtnYyT%2bBzFbwiIh6W8qZeTNOI%3d>
>
>
>
> The abstract / intro to your document talks about some specifics for
> problems, which generally all users of the network have. I don't see
> how/why solving for 'cloud' is different than solving for 'cableco'.
>
>
>
> [lf]: We deliver cloud services through inter-connecting our Cloud
> networks (overlay and underlay) to other Cloud or Network providers/ISP
> (treated as underlay carrier in most cases).
>

=E2=80=8Bsure.=E2=80=8B



> It is not quite the same as inter-connect two carriers as I worked in the
> past in ISP space. We also had some thought on asking ISP to help impleme=
nt
> certain policies which can help to reduce risk/noise, etc.
>
> But I agree what we are talking in the draft is rather general. Wording
> can be modified.
>
>
>

=E2=80=8Bit looks a lot like isp interconnects to me.=E2=80=8B



> DOTS proposes similar 'tell people I need help' bits.
>
> INCH did this with RID in ~2010.
>
> Arbor does this with fingerprint-sharing.
>
>
>
> I don't know that a third or fourth methodology is really going to move
> the needle here, is it?
>
>
>
> [lf]
>
> I don=E2=80=99t see we conflict with DOTS, we contribute and want to see =
progress
> in DDoS too.
>

=E2=80=8Bit's not about a conflict, to me anyway, it's about: "How is this =
going to
succeed where all other equivalent attempts have failed?"=E2=80=8B (sure, d=
ots
hasn't gotten out of the gate, but inch/rid did... and it's a standard
already)



> In addition to signaling, we need general way to exchange info between
> providers, and we need them as standards since it is inter-provider.
>
> These requirements come from our cloud production.
>
>
>

=E2=80=8Bok, sure. but... inch/rid already is a standard, and already does =
a bunch
of what you want.=E2=80=8B



> Thanks,
>
> Luyuan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:17 AM, Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes! Thx, Dacheng.
>
> Adding DOTS here.
>
> Luyuan
>
>
>
> *From:* Dacheng Zhang [mailto:dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 27, 2016 8:59 PM
> *To:* Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org
> *Cc:* adrian@olddog.co.uk; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-0=
1
>
>
>
> Should this be discussed in dots as well?
>
>
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: *I2nsf <i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf o=
f Luyuan Fang <
> lufang@microsoft.com>
> *=E6=97=A5=E6=9C=9F: *2016=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 =E6=98=9F=E6=9C=
=9F=E4=B8=80 =E4=B8=8A=E5=8D=8811:44
> *=E8=87=B3: *"i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: *"adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Linda =
Dunbar <
> linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: *[I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigatio=
n-api-01
>
>
>
> Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,
>
>
>
> We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-=
api-01
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools=
.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&data=
=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72=
f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DloMaidhDHo1EelaZJPjfs7hGhwuTV70D=
b14iUr8oElc%3d>
>
>
>
> We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent
> need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose
> categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address
> comments/questions on 00 draft from the WG.
>
>
>
> Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
>
> 1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed
> by an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by
> another provider in 2013;
>
> 2) Growing in frequency.
>
> 3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some
> cloud services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
>
> 4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS,
> and BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
>
> 5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large
> volume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the
> inter-connection links.
>
>
>
> This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation,
> and may extend to more general security information exchange. We need
> mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Provider=
s
> (CSPs) and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must suppor=
t
> real time, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achiev=
e
> rapid protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS
> attack mitigation.
>
>
>
> We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
>
> 1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS
> capabilities from one provider to another provider.
>
> 2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for
> mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request=
,
> execute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.
>
> 3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS
> status and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partn=
er
> providers.
>
> 4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a
> specific DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform
> coordinated mitigation whenever possible.
>
>
>
> We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).
>
>
>
> We=E2=80=99d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open =
to ideas,
> and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for
> deployment.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luyuan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.i=
etf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fi2nsf&data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.co=
m%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=
&sdata=3Due7jhjBJb9F681B6xEza9ASJ%2b1MfCy%2ftdlD1SYWKZUQ%3d>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dots mailing list
> Dots@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fwww.i=
etf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fdots&data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com=
%7c17099a52425a4092e6b608d357ea2c73%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&=
sdata=3DW0Sd1vbPCw6RJirQRJ1d0e2Hi%2fQBHXWLDV%2bgawR5PJ0%3d>
>
>
>

--001a114da656435598052f3bc20e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Ma=
r 29, 2016 at 10:36 PM, Luyuan Fang <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lufang@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Christopher,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks for your comments. See in-line=
 with [lf].<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_1508072541040270254__MailEndCompose"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></a></p>
<span></span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:christopher.=
morrow@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">christopher.morrow@gmail.com</a> [mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:christopher.morrow@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">christo=
pher.morrow@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Christopher Morrow<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" target=
=3D"_blank">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dacheng Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:i=
2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>; dots &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:dots@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dots@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Roman D. Danyl=
iw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org" target=3D"_blank">rdd@cert.org</a>&g=
t;; <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>; Tobias Gondrom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org</a>&gt;; Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@huaw=
ei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dots] [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitiga=
tion-api-01<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">this harkens back to (again):<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fdatatracker.ietf.org%2fdoc%2frfc6046%2f&amp;data=3D01%7c01=
%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c17099a52425a4092e6b608d357ea2c73%7c72f988bf86f1=
41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3Da0oVARXGMvi8f92DGcNtnYyT%2bBzFbwiIh6W8=
qZeTNOI%3d" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6046/</a>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The abstract / intro to your document talks about so=
me specifics for problems, which generally all users of the network have. I=
 don&#39;t see how/why solving for &#39;cloud&#39; is different than solvin=
g for &#39;cableco&#39;.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[lf]: We deliver cloud service=
s through inter-connecting our Cloud networks (overlay and underlay) to oth=
er Cloud or Network providers/ISP (treated as underlay
 carrier in most cases).</span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=
=80=8Bsure.=E2=80=8B</div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is not quite the same as inter-con=
nect two carriers as I worked in the past in ISP space. We also had some th=
ought on asking ISP to help implement certain
 policies which can help to reduce risk/noise, etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">But I agree what we are talking in th=
e draft is rather general. Wording can be modified.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></span></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small">=E2=80=8Bit looks a lot like isp interconnects to me.=E2=80=8B</di=
v><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN=
-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div><span class=3D""><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">DOTS proposes similar &#39;tell people I need help&#=
39; bits.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">INCH did this with RID in ~2010.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Arbor does this with fingerprint-sharing.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#39;t know that a third or fourth methodology =
is really going to move the needle here, is it?<span style=3D"color:#1f497d=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[lf]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I don=E2=80=99t see we conflict with =
DOTS, we contribute and want to see progress in DDoS too.</span></p></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8Bit&#39;s not about a conflict, to me=
 anyway, it&#39;s about: &quot;How is this going to succeed where all other=
 equivalent attempts have failed?&quot;=E2=80=8B (sure, dots hasn&#39;t got=
ten out of the gate, but inch/rid did... and it&#39;s a standard already)</=
div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"=
EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif=
;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In addition to signaling, we need gen=
eral way to exchange info between providers, and we need them as standards =
since it is inter-provider.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">These requirements come from our clou=
d production.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8Bok, sure. but... inch/rid already is a sta=
ndard, and already does a bunch of what you want.=E2=80=8B</div><br></div><=
div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"=
blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Luyuan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:17 AM, Luyuan Fang &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">lufang@microsoft.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Yes! Thx, Dacheng.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Adding DOTS here.</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Luyuan</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_1508072541040270254_m_-6524107242562387=
334__MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></a><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dacheng Zhang [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com" target=3D"_blank">dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com=
</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" target=
=3D"_blank">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@=
olddog.co.uk</a>; Linda Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Should =
this be discussed in dots as well?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;=
color:black">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">I2nsf &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf-bo=
unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf =
of Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank=
">lufang@microsoft.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=
=97=A5=E6=9C=9F</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">2016</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" styl=
e=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"color:b=
lack">3</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black"=
>=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D"color:black">28</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=97=A5</span><span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=98=
=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=B8=80</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"color:black">
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E4=B8=
=8A=E5=8D=88</span><span style=3D"color:black">11:44<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E8=
=87=B3</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i2nsf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E6=
=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddo=
g.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;, Lin=
da Dunbar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">=
linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:SimSun;color:black">=E4=
=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span style=3D"color:black">:
</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">[I2nsf] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud=
-ddos-mitigation-api-01</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Hi Linda, Adrian, and al=
l,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We posted draft-fang-i2n=
sf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://na01.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml=
%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7=
clufang%40microsoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141=
af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3DloMaidhDHo1EelaZJPjfs7hGhwuTV70Db14iUr8o=
Elc%3d" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inte=
r-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:black">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we =
are observing and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS m=
itigation. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also =
address comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Characteristics of the D=
DoS attacks that we have seen:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:black">1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed=
 DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS at=
tack was reported by another provider in 2013;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:black">2) Growing in frequency. </span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:black">3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks=
, especially when some cloud services do not impose bandwidth and compute r=
esource limitation;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:black">4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerab=
le services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidt=
h;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:black">5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider=
 connection links, large volume attack can disrupt all cloud services trave=
rsing through the inter-connection links.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">This draft is focus on I=
nter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, and may extend to more ge=
neral security information exchange. We need mechanisms
 which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs) and=
 Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time,=
 automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid prot=
ective response and effective Inter
 Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We propose the following=
 categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in"><span style=3D"color:black">1)</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"color:black">Capability information exchange: Support=
 &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS capabilities from one provider to another provi=
der.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in"><span style=3D"color:black">2)</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"color:black">Mitigation Request and response: One pro=
vider can &quot;Request&quot; for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mi=
tigation request can ack request, execute mitigation procedure, =C2=A0and r=
espond back.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in"><span style=3D"color:black">3)</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"color:black">Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another =
provider to monitor DDoS status and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS =
status reports to partner providers.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.75in"><span style=3D"color:black">4)</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"color:black">Knowledge sharing: Allow partner provide=
rs to query for a specific DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resilien=
cy and perform coordinated mitigation whenever possible.</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We also propose to use R=
EST API format (examples in the draft).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">We=E2=80=99d like to dis=
cuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome cont=
ributions to progress the draft and make it usable for deployment.</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Luyuan</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:SimSun;c=
olor:black">_______________________________________________ I2nsf mailing l=
ist
<a href=3D"mailto:I2nsf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">I2nsf@ietf.org</a> <a h=
ref=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2fw=
ww.ietf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fi2nsf&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40micr=
osoft.com%7c22f6d7500ff7454aa6c308d356bd4222%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011=
db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3Due7jhjBJb9F681B6xEza9ASJ%2b1MfCy%2ftdlD1SYWKZUQ%3d" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Dots mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Dots@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Dots@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f=
%2fwww.ietf.org%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2fdots&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40m=
icrosoft.com%7c17099a52425a4092e6b608d357ea2c73%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd=
011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=3DW0Sd1vbPCw6RJirQRJ1d0e2Hi%2fQBHXWLDV%2bgawR5PJ0%3d"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dots</a><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a114da656435598052f3bc20e--


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From: "Roland Dobbins" <rdobbins@arbor.net>
To: "Luyuan Fang" <lufang@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:32:33 +0700
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On 30 Mar 2016, at 9:51, Luyuan Fang wrote:

> Inter-provider is very different from intra-region/inter-region within 
> our own Cloud/Networks, and it is different from between provider and 
> individual customers.

Different in what way(s)?

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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Lu Yuan,

Thanks for the reply.

For I2NSF WG, can you elaborate the following statement, i.e. drilling down=
 to the detailed attributes/parameters needed for the "SecurityObject" used=
 for Inter-domain security policy & capability exchange?  That will be very=
 useful in shaping up the I2NSF Service Layer Information & data model.

For example, we work with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchang=
e security policy info at the time the connection is set up, or when this n=
ew API implemented by both sides. The info can include: Here is our securit=
y capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to block certain traf=
fic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we can do the same =
for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in certain networks, =
want share with you on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, =
etc. We expect the partners share the same with us. Or even let's agree on =
a combined mitigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API=
, or possible predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit move, etc.)

Thanks, Linda

From: Luyuan Fang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:24 PM
To: Linda Dunbar; i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Tobias Gondrom; Roman D. Danyliw
Subject: RE: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i=
2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda,

Thank you for highlighting the important aspects here, very much appreciate=
d.
See in-line my comments marked with [lf].

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:15 PM
To: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com<mailto:lufang@microsoft.com>>; i2nsf@=
ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; Tobias Gondrom <tobias=
.gondrom@gondrom.org<mailto:tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>>; Roman D. Danyliw =
<rdd@cert.org<mailto:rdd@cert.org>>
Subject: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf=
-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

LuYuan,

DOTS people pointed out that the request for help in mitigating DDoS  betwe=
en Providers  is not that much different from an end point requesting for h=
elp in mitigating DDoS. While you can continue the debate on why request fo=
r DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the DOTS mailing list, =
we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to piece out the portio=
n from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope.

[lf] Inter-provider cases are VERY different than inter-region within ourse=
lves, or inter-connecting to end customers. To be more granular, even Inter=
-provider case varies between each partner provider we are working with. Bu=
t at least we want to have a set of standard API we can based on when worki=
ng between providers.

With a more close-up look at your draft, it seems to me that you also want =
to specify the interfaces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between op=
erators (or Domains). The  Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules to rest=
rict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and the capa=
bility inquiry from one domain to the other.
This portion might fit to the I2NSF Service Layer  Interface.  While DOTS i=
s signaling between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one=
 party to specify the rules/policies to the other party on how to treat  th=
eir specific traffic.

If you agree with my analysis,  you can elaborate this aspect for  I2NSF WG=
.  That means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another=
 domain on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.

[lf] Very much agree with you, Linda. Actually, the APIs we are talking abo=
ut, not necessarily limited to DDoS mitigation, it is about security policy=
 in general. And the API is not only used when DDoS attack happens, it is u=
sed to exchange information before and after the attacks, and at any time.

For example, we work with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchang=
e security policy info at the time the connection is set up, or when this n=
ew API implemented by both sides. The info can include: Here is our securit=
y capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to block certain traf=
fic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we can do the same =
for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in certain networks, =
want share with you on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, =
etc. We expect the partners share the same with us. Or even let's agree on =
a combined mitigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API=
, or possible predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit move, etc.)

As I2NSF is converging to Event- Condition - Action paradigm, do you think =
the "Security Object" of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the f=
ollowing format:


o   Event ,

o   Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for specific ports, or flows, pl=
us contextual condition) , and

o   Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invoking a function, etc)
[lf] Yes.

Thanks, Linda

Thanks,
Luyuan

From: Luyuan Fang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Cc: Linda Dunbar; adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,

We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftoo=
ls.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&da=
ta=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c0ff928ed5b13415cded008d35827eb98%7c=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2bRo6twc5iJhrVZNqQe3LvcK6DwUA=
xlycOK4Xsn%2bGUos%3d>


We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent ne=
ed for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categorie=
s and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address comments/questions on 0=
0 draft from the WG.

Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by=
 an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another=
 provider in 2013;
2) Growing in frequency.
3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud=
 services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, a=
nd BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large vol=
ume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-conn=
ection links.

This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, a=
nd may extend to more general security information exchange. We need mechan=
isms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs)=
 and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real t=
ime, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid =
protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mi=
tigation.

We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:

1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS capabilit=
ies from one provider to another provider.

2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for mit=
igation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, exe=
cute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.

3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS st=
atus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner p=
roviders.

4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific =
DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated =
mitigation whenever possible.

We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).

We'd like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, =
and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for depl=
oyment.

Thanks,
Luyuan






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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Lu Yuan, <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks for the reply. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">For I2NSF WG, can you =
elaborate the following statement, i.e. drilling down to the detailed attri=
butes/parameters needed for the &#8220;SecurityObject&#8221; used for Inter=
-domain security policy &amp; capability exchange? &nbsp;That
 will be very useful in shaping up the I2NSF Service Layer Information &amp=
; data model.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"color:black">For example, we work =
with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchange security policy inf=
o at the time the connection is set up, or when this new API implemented by=
 both sides. The info can include: Here
 is our security capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to blo=
ck certain traffic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we c=
an do the same for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in cer=
tain networks, want share with you
 on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, etc. We expect the =
partners share the same with us. Or even let&#8217;s agree on a combined mi=
tigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API, or possible=
 predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit
 move, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Luyuan F=
ang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar; i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Tobias Gondrom; Roman D. Danyliw<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft=
-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Linda,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank you for highligh=
ting the important aspects here, very much appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">See in-line my comment=
s marked with [lf].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Linda Dunbar [<a href=3D"mailto:linda.d=
unbar@huawei.com">mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com">lufang@m=
icrosoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; =
Tobias Gondrom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org">tobias.gon=
drom@gondrom.org</a>&gt;; Roman D. Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.o=
rg">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fan=
g-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">LuYuan, <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">DOTS people pointed ou=
t that the request for help in mitigating DDoS &nbsp;between Providers &nbs=
p;is not that much different from an end point requesting for help in mitig=
ating DDoS. While you can continue the debate
 on why request for DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the D=
OTS mailing list, we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to pi=
ece out the portion from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Inter-provider case=
s are VERY different than inter-region within ourselves, or inter-connectin=
g to end customers. To be more granular, even Inter-provider case varies be=
tween each partner provider we are working
 with. But at least we want to have a set of standard API we can based on w=
hen working between providers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">With a more close-up l=
ook at your draft, it seems to me that you also want to specify the interfa=
ces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between operators (or Domains). =
The &nbsp;Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules
 to restrict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and =
the capability inquiry from one domain to the other. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This portion might fit=
 to the I2NSF Service Layer &nbsp;Interface. &nbsp;While DOTS is signaling =
between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one party to sp=
ecify the rules/policies to the other party on
 how to treat &nbsp;their specific traffic. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If you agree with my a=
nalysis, &nbsp;you can elaborate this aspect for &nbsp;I2NSF WG. &nbsp;That=
 means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another domain=
 on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Very much agree wit=
h you, Linda. Actually, the APIs we are talking about, not necessarily limi=
ted to DDoS mitigation, it is about security policy in general. And the API=
 is not only used when DDoS attack happens,
 it is used to exchange information before and after the attacks, and at an=
y time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">For example, we work wit=
h an ISP in a different country, we like to exchange security policy info a=
t the time the connection is set up, or when this new API implemented by bo=
th sides. The info can include: Here
 is our security capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to blo=
ck certain traffic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we c=
an do the same for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in cer=
tain networks, want share with you
 on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, etc. We expect the =
partners share the same with us. Or even let&#8217;s agree on a combined mi=
tigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API, or possible=
 predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit
 move, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I2NSF is converging=
 to Event- Condition &#8211; Action paradigm, do you think the &#8220;Secur=
ity Object&#8221; of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the follo=
wing format:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">o</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Event ,&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">o</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for specific ports, or flows,=
 plus contextual condition) , and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">o</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invoking a function, etc)<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Yes.</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Luyuan F=
ang [<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com">mailto:lufang@microsoft.com</a=
>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@oldd=
og.co.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigati=
on-api-01 on 3/21.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook=
.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cl=
oud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c0f=
f928ed5b13415cded008d35827eb98%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;s=
data=3D%2bRo6twc5iJhrVZNqQe3LvcK6DwUAxlycOK4Xsn%2bGUos%3d">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are o=
bserving and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitiga=
tion. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also addre=
ss comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have see=
n: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">1) Growing in volume, e.g=
., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, while=
 over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">2) Growing in frequency. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">3) Using Cloud services t=
o launch major attacks, especially when some cloud services do not impose b=
andwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">4) Growing in sophisticat=
ion: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent to amplify =
the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">5) Growing attack to Inte=
r-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large volume attack can disrupt al=
l cloud services traversing through the inter-connection links.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DD=
oS attack mitigation, and may extend to more general security information e=
xchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud S=
ervice Providers (CSPs) and Network
 Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time, automat=
ed information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid protective r=
esponse and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We propose the following categories of basic set of =
Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">1)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Capability information exchange: Support &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS =
capabilities from one provider to another provider.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">2)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Mitigation Request and response: One provider can &quot;Request&quot=
; for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack req=
uest, execute mitigation procedure, &nbsp;and respond back.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">3)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS sta=
tus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner pr=
oviders.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">4)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific D=
DoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated m=
itigation whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also propose to use REST API format (examples in =
the draft).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at I=
ETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contributions to progress the draf=
t and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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--_000_DM2PR0301MB070433DFEE7C3F44198FB065D6980DM2PR0301MB0704_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Thanks Linda.
We will work more with the focus around "information model of the inter-pro=
vider security policy  & capability exchange", and we plan to upload new ve=
rsion next Monday.
Thx,
Luyuan

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 8:35 AM
To: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>; i2nsf@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>; Roman=
 D. Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Subject: RE: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i=
2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Lu Yuan,

Thanks for the reply.

For I2NSF WG, can you elaborate the following statement, i.e. drilling down=
 to the detailed attributes/parameters needed for the "SecurityObject" used=
 for Inter-domain security policy & capability exchange?  That will be very=
 useful in shaping up the I2NSF Service Layer Information & data model.

For example, we work with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchang=
e security policy info at the time the connection is set up, or when this n=
ew API implemented by both sides. The info can include: Here is our securit=
y capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to block certain traf=
fic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we can do the same =
for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in certain networks, =
want share with you on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, =
etc. We expect the partners share the same with us. Or even let's agree on =
a combined mitigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API=
, or possible predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit move, etc.)

Thanks, Linda

From: Luyuan Fang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:24 PM
To: Linda Dunbar; i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; Tobias Gondrom; Roman =
D. Danyliw
Subject: RE: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i=
2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda,

Thank you for highlighting the important aspects here, very much appreciate=
d.
See in-line my comments marked with [lf].

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:15 PM
To: Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com<mailto:lufang@microsoft.com>>; i2nsf@=
ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>; Tobias Gondrom <tobias=
.gondrom@gondrom.org<mailto:tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>>; Roman D. Danyliw =
<rdd@cert.org<mailto:rdd@cert.org>>
Subject: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fang-i2nsf=
-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

LuYuan,

DOTS people pointed out that the request for help in mitigating DDoS  betwe=
en Providers  is not that much different from an end point requesting for h=
elp in mitigating DDoS. While you can continue the debate on why request fo=
r DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the DOTS mailing list, =
we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to piece out the portio=
n from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope.

[lf] Inter-provider cases are VERY different than inter-region within ourse=
lves, or inter-connecting to end customers. To be more granular, even Inter=
-provider case varies between each partner provider we are working with. Bu=
t at least we want to have a set of standard API we can based on when worki=
ng between providers.

With a more close-up look at your draft, it seems to me that you also want =
to specify the interfaces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between op=
erators (or Domains). The  Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules to rest=
rict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and the capa=
bility inquiry from one domain to the other.
This portion might fit to the I2NSF Service Layer  Interface.  While DOTS i=
s signaling between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one=
 party to specify the rules/policies to the other party on how to treat  th=
eir specific traffic.

If you agree with my analysis,  you can elaborate this aspect for  I2NSF WG=
.  That means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another=
 domain on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.

[lf] Very much agree with you, Linda. Actually, the APIs we are talking abo=
ut, not necessarily limited to DDoS mitigation, it is about security policy=
 in general. And the API is not only used when DDoS attack happens, it is u=
sed to exchange information before and after the attacks, and at any time.

For example, we work with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchang=
e security policy info at the time the connection is set up, or when this n=
ew API implemented by both sides. The info can include: Here is our securit=
y capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to block certain traf=
fic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we can do the same =
for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in certain networks, =
want share with you on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, =
etc. We expect the partners share the same with us. Or even let's agree on =
a combined mitigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API=
, or possible predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit move, etc.)

As I2NSF is converging to Event- Condition - Action paradigm, do you think =
the "Security Object" of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the f=
ollowing format:


o   Event ,

o   Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for specific ports, or flows, pl=
us contextual condition) , and

o   Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invoking a function, etc)
[lf] Yes.

Thanks, Linda

Thanks,
Luyuan

From: Luyuan Fang [mailto:lufang@microsoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM
To: i2nsf@ietf.org<mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org>
Cc: Linda Dunbar; adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01

Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,

We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 on 3/21.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-ap=
i-01<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftoo=
ls.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&da=
ta=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c0ff928ed5b13415cded008d35827eb98%7c=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2bRo6twc5iJhrVZNqQe3LvcK6DwUA=
xlycOK4Xsn%2bGUos%3d>


We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are observing and the urgent ne=
ed for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitigation. We propose categorie=
s and formats of basic set of APIs. We also address comments/questions on 0=
0 draft from the WG.

Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have seen:
1) Growing in volume, e.g., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by=
 an ISP in 12/2014, while over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another=
 provider in 2013;
2) Growing in frequency.
3) Using Cloud services to launch major attacks, especially when some cloud=
 services do not impose bandwidth and compute resource limitation;
4) Growing in sophistication: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, a=
nd BitTorrent to amplify the available bandwidth;
5) Growing attack to Inter-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large vol=
ume attack can disrupt all cloud services traversing through the inter-conn=
ection links.

This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DDoS attack mitigation, a=
nd may extend to more general security information exchange. We need mechan=
isms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud Service Providers (CSPs)=
 and Network Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real t=
ime, automated information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid =
protective response and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mi=
tigation.

We propose the following categories of basic set of Inter-cloud APIs:

1)      Capability information exchange: Support "Query" the DDoS capabilit=
ies from one provider to another provider.

2)      Mitigation Request and response: One provider can "Request" for mit=
igation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack request, exe=
cute mitigation procedure,  and respond back.

3)      Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS st=
atus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner p=
roviders.

4)      Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific =
DDoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated =
mitigation whenever possible.

We also propose to use REST API format (examples in the draft).

We'd like to discuss on the list, and F2F at IETF95. We are open to ideas, =
and welcome contributions to progress the draft and make it usable for depl=
oyment.

Thanks,
Luyuan






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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks Linda.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We will work more with=
 the focus around &#8220;</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">information m=
odel of the inter-provider security policy&nbsp; &amp; capability exchange&=
#8221;, and we plan to upload new version next Monday.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thx,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Luyuan</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawe=
i.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 30, 2016 8:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;lufang@microsoft.com&gt;; i2nsf@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> adrian@olddog.co.uk; Tobias Gondrom &lt;tobias.gondrom@gondrom.o=
rg&gt;; Roman D. Danyliw &lt;rdd@cert.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft=
-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Lu Yuan, <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks for the reply. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">For I2NSF WG, can you =
elaborate the following statement, i.e. drilling down to the detailed attri=
butes/parameters needed for the &#8220;SecurityObject&#8221; used for Inter=
-domain security policy &amp; capability exchange? &nbsp;That
 will be very useful in shaping up the I2NSF Service Layer Information &amp=
; data model.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"color:black">For example, we work =
with an ISP in a different country, we like to exchange security policy inf=
o at the time the connection is set up, or when this new API implemented by=
 both sides. The info can include: Here
 is our security capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to blo=
ck certain traffic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we c=
an do the same for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in cer=
tain networks, want share with you
 on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, etc. We expect the =
partners share the same with us. Or even let&#8217;s agree on a combined mi=
tigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API, or possible=
 predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit
 move, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Luyuan Fang [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
ufang@microsoft.com">mailto:lufang@microsoft.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2016 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Linda Dunbar; <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; =
Tobias Gondrom; Roman D. Danyliw<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft=
-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Linda,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank you for highligh=
ting the important aspects here, very much appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">See in-line my comment=
s marked with [lf].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Linda Dunbar [<a href=3D"mailto:linda.d=
unbar@huawei.com">mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Luyuan Fang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lufang@microsoft.com">lufang@m=
icrosoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>; =
Tobias Gondrom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org">tobias.gon=
drom@gondrom.org</a>&gt;; Roman D. Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.o=
rg">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> piece out I2NSF portion and DOTS portion from the draft-fan=
g-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">LuYuan, <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">DOTS people pointed ou=
t that the request for help in mitigating DDoS &nbsp;between Providers &nbs=
p;is not that much different from an end point requesting for help in mitig=
ating DDoS. While you can continue the debate
 on why request for DDoS mitigating between providers is different on the D=
OTS mailing list, we (I2NSF mailing list) can focus on the discussion to pi=
ece out the portion from your draft that might fit the I2NSF WG scope. &nbs=
p;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Inter-provider case=
s are VERY different than inter-region within ourselves, or inter-connectin=
g to end customers. To be more granular, even Inter-provider case varies be=
tween each partner provider we are working
 with. But at least we want to have a set of standard API we can based on w=
hen working between providers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">With a more close-up l=
ook at your draft, it seems to me that you also want to specify the interfa=
ces (i.e. the Restful APIs in Section 4.2) between operators (or Domains). =
The &nbsp;Section 4.2 specifies the policies/rules
 to restrict or rate limit certain traffic from one domain to another, and =
the capability inquiry from one domain to the other. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This portion might fit=
 to the I2NSF Service Layer &nbsp;Interface. &nbsp;While DOTS is signaling =
between DDoS mitigation client and servers, I2NSF is to for one party to sp=
ecify the rules/policies to the other party on
 how to treat &nbsp;their specific traffic. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If you agree with my a=
nalysis, &nbsp;you can elaborate this aspect for &nbsp;I2NSF WG. &nbsp;That=
 means, the goal in I2NSF is more about one domain informing another domain=
 on the rules/policies to treat their specific traffic.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Very much agree wit=
h you, Linda. Actually, the APIs we are talking about, not necessarily limi=
ted to DDoS mitigation, it is about security policy in general. And the API=
 is not only used when DDoS attack happens,
 it is used to exchange information before and after the attacks, and at an=
y time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">For example, we work wit=
h an ISP in a different country, we like to exchange security policy info a=
t the time the connection is set up, or when this new API implemented by bo=
th sides. The info can include: Here
 is our security capability and policies, what is yours? We want you to blo=
ck certain traffic coming to us (the policy can be changes real time), we c=
an do the same for you upon request. We are observing DDoS happening in cer=
tain networks, want share with you
 on the attack signature, volume, location, time stamp, etc. We expect the =
partners share the same with us. Or even let&#8217;s agree on a combined mi=
tigation strategy together (this may need more than simple API, or possible=
 predefined as plan A, plan B, circuit
 move, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I2NSF is converging=
 to Event- Condition &#8211; Action paradigm, do you think the &#8220;Secur=
ity Object&#8221; of your proposed Rules can be articulated in to the follo=
wing format:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">o</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,se=
rif">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Event ,&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">o</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,se=
rif">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Condition (such as bandwidth threshold for specific ports, or flows,=
 plus contextual condition) , and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:=
0in;margin-bottom:10.0pt;margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:=
115%">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">o</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,se=
rif">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Actions (such as Alert, Rate Limiting, Invoking a function, etc)<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">[lf] Yes.</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Luyuan Fang [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
ufang@microsoft.com">mailto:lufang@microsoft.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:i2nsf@ietf.org">i2nsf@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Linda Dunbar; <a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@oldd=
og.co.uk</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01 <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Linda, Adrian, and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We posted draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigati=
on-api-01 on 3/21.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook=
.com/?url=3Dhttps%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cl=
oud-ddos-mitigation-api-01&amp;data=3D01%7c01%7clufang%40microsoft.com%7c0f=
f928ed5b13415cded008d35827eb98%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;s=
data=3D%2bRo6twc5iJhrVZNqQe3LvcK6DwUAxlycOK4Xsn%2bGUos%3d">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">We extend more on the DDOS attack trends we are o=
bserving and the urgent need for automated inter-cloud/provider DDoS mitiga=
tion. We propose categories and formats of basic set of APIs. We also addre=
ss comments/questions on 00 draft
 from the WG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Characteristics of the DDoS attacks that we have see=
n: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">1) Growing in volume, e.g=
., 450 Gbps peak speed DDoS attack was observed by an ISP in 12/2014, while=
 over 300 Gbps DDoS attack was reported by another provider in 2013;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">2) Growing in frequency. =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">3) Using Cloud services t=
o launch major attacks, especially when some cloud services do not impose b=
andwidth and compute resource limitation;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">4) Growing in sophisticat=
ion: leverage vulnerable services like NTP, DNS, and BitTorrent to amplify =
the available bandwidth;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">5) Growing attack to Inte=
r-cloud/Inter-provider connection links, large volume attack can disrupt al=
l cloud services traversing through the inter-connection links.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This draft is focus on Inter-Cloud/Inter-provider DD=
oS attack mitigation, and may extend to more general security information e=
xchange. We need mechanisms which can enable DDoS mitigation across Cloud S=
ervice Providers (CSPs) and Network
 Service Providers (NSPs). These mechanisms must support real time, automat=
ed information exchange among CSPs and NSPs, and achieve rapid protective r=
esponse and effective Inter Cloud/Inter Provider DDoS attack mitigation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We propose the following categories of basic set of =
Inter-cloud APIs:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">1)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Capability information exchange: Support &quot;Query&quot; the DDoS =
capabilities from one provider to another provider.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">2)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Mitigation Request and response: One provider can &quot;Request&quot=
; for mitigation. The provider received DDoS mitigation request can ack req=
uest, execute mitigation procedure, &nbsp;and respond back.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">3)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Monitoring and Reporting: Allow another provider to monitor DDoS sta=
tus and mitigation processes; and provide DDoS status reports to partner pr=
oviders.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in=
">4)<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>Knowledge sharing: Allow partner providers to query for a specific D=
DoS related data to enhance their DDoS resiliency and perform coordinated m=
itigation whenever possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We also propose to use REST API format (examples in =
the draft).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#8217;d like to discuss on the list, and F2F at I=
ETF95. We are open to ideas, and welcome contributions to progress the draf=
t and make it usable for deployment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luyuan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM2PR0301MB070433DFEE7C3F44198FB065D6980DM2PR0301MB0704_--


From nobody Wed Mar 30 13:39:31 2016
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:39:21 +0100
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Subject: [I2nsf] Updated agenda for Buenos Aires
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Hi,

Linda and I have been polishing, whittling, and generally trying to get more
things into the pint pot!

The new agenda is quite tight towards the end and we may need to be a bit
disciplined about timing.

My advice to presenters is to remember that half the point (or more) of being
there is to hear what the room has to say to you. If you spend all of your
allotted time talking, no-one will get a chance at the microphone. So, work out
what your message is, work out what questions you want to ask the room, and
leave time for comments and discussion.

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-i2nsf

See you all next week,
Adrian


From nobody Wed Mar 30 19:22:46 2016
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From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
To: "Xialiang (Frank)" <frank.xialiang@huawei.com>
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Cc: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "i2nsf@ietf.org" <i2nsf@ietf.org>, dots <dots@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>, Dacheng Zhang <dacheng.zdc@alibaba-inc.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Luyuan Fang <lufang@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgW0RvdHNdIGRyYWZ0LWZhbmctaTJuc2Yt?= =?utf-8?q?inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01?=
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--94eb2c0afa102a84cf052f501090
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Xialiang (Frank) <
frank.xialiang@huawei.com> wrote:

>
> It=E2=80=99s necessary to consolidate all the use cases (intra-domain,
> inter-domain, inter-cloud) into more general use cases and elaborate the
> relations in next step (it had already some progress), in order to design=
 a
> comprehensive solution.
>
>
>
=E2=80=8BI don't see how inter/intra/cloud usecases are actually different.

In all cases:
  1) customer is being (or thinks they are) attacked
  2) =E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8Bcustomer needs help=E2=80=8B
  3) help is available at the various stages away from the customer

=E2=80=8Bor:
  1) customer is the source of an attack
  2) upstreams react and block the customer's traffic

it's really not that complicated, I think.=E2=80=8B

--94eb2c0afa102a84cf052f501090
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Ma=
r 30, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Xialiang (Frank) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:frank.xialiang@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">frank.xialiang@huawei.co=
m</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">It=E2=80=
=99s necessary to consolidate all the use cases (intra-domain, inter-domain=
, inter-cloud) into more general use cases and elaborate the relations
 in next step (it had already some progress), in order to design a comprehe=
nsive solution.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;display:inline">=E2=
=80=8BI don&#39;t see how inter/intra/cloud usecases are actually different=
.</div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;dis=
play:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-size:small;display:inline">In all cases:<br>=C2=A0 1) customer is being (=
or thinks they are) attacked</div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:small;display:inline">=C2=A0 2) =E2=80=8B</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;display:inline">=E2=80=8Bcustom=
er needs help=E2=80=8B</div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small;display:inline">=C2=A0 3) help is available at the vari=
ous stages away from the customer</div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8Bor:<br>=C2=A0 1) cus=
tomer is the source of an attack</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-size:small">=C2=A0 2) upstreams react and block the customer&#39;s tr=
affic</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">it&#39;s really not=
 that complicated, I think.=E2=80=8B</div><br></div></div></div></div>

--94eb2c0afa102a84cf052f501090--


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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On 30 Mar 2016, at 9:51, Luyuan Fang wrote:

> Inter-provider is very different from intra-region/inter-region within 
> our own Cloud/Networks, and it is different from between provider and 
> individual customers.

Different in what way(s)?

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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From: "Roland Dobbins" <rdobbins@arbor.net>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On 31 Mar 2016, at 9:20, Xialiang (Frank) wrote:

> Itâ€™s necessary to consolidate all the use cases (intra-domain, 
> inter-domain, inter-cloud) into more general use cases

See draft-ietf-dots-requirements-01 - that's precisely what the document 
that we've worked on does, Frank.

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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From: "Roland Dobbins" <rdobbins@arbor.net>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On 31 Mar 2016, at 10:43, Christopher Morrow wrote:

> I don't see how inter/intra/cloud usecases are actually different.

Concur 100%.

> it's really not that complicated, I think.â€‹

Yes - it's a relatively straightforward signal/response/status update 
sort of application.

Perhaps because it has to do with DDoS attacks, the assumption is it has 
to be complicated and rococo and all-encompassing.  This isn't actually 
the case.

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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From: "Roland Dobbins" <rdobbins@arbor.net>
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] [Dots] draft-fang-i2nsf-inter-cloud-ddos-mitigation-api-01
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On 31 Mar 2016, at 13:28, Xialiang (Frank) wrote:

> But I think more work is needed to make it better.

There's always room for improvement - as long as those improvements 
focus the signaling/response system itself, and we *don't* engage in 
scope-creep to incorporate externalities like telemetry formats, 
mitigation mechanisms, diversion/re-injection mechanisms, orchestration, 
et. al., which have nothing to do with the signaling application itself.

That signaling application is the raison d'Ãªtre for DOTS.  This other 
stuff is of secondary importance, for context only.

-----------------------------------
Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>


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To: Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@arbor.net>
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From nobody Thu Mar 31 10:31:20 2016
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [I2nsf] Slides for Buenos Aires
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As we all pack our bags for Argentina, could those of you who will be leading
sessions in I2NSF please put your slides together and send them to the chairs so
that we can post them.
Thanks,
Adrian


From nobody Thu Mar 31 11:41:20 2016
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <i2nsf@ietf.org>
References: <01de01d18b73$1f48ce20$5dda6a60$@olddog.co.uk>
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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:41:11 +0100
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Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Slides for Buenos Aires
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All,

Further to this request, some hints...

When the chairs post your slides, they can post PPT or PDF files, but all PPT
files are automatically converted to PDF.

We have noticed that the PDF files generated do not always get it right. There
are problems with line wraps and line overflows.

Therefore, the chairs propose to convert all files to PDF themselves before they
are posted.

However, please be aware that the chairs will not check the resulting files. In
order to avoid any surprises or disappointment, we strongly advise you to send
us your slides already as PDF files.

Thanks,
Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: I2nsf [mailto:i2nsf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: 31 March 2016 18:31
> To: i2nsf@ietf.org
> Subject: [I2nsf] Slides for Buenos Aires
> 
> As we all pack our bags for Argentina, could those of you who will be leading
> sessions in I2NSF please put your slides together and send them to the chairs
so
> that we can post them.
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I2nsf mailing list
> I2nsf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf

