Subject: [i2rs] What to do with draft names

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 20:50:43 -0000

Hi,

Given the renaming of our efforts, I suggest that draft editors would do well
to:

- re-post the I-Ds with updated names as draft-foo-i2rs-bar
- send a note to the Secretariat asking that draft-foo-irs-bar be shown as
replaced by draft-foo-i2rs-bar

Adrian

From: Thomas D Nadeau <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:47:26 -0500
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt

	Just a reminder that there is a holiday for much of the week next w=
eek, so please hold off on any comments until the week after lest they get l=
ost.

	--Tom

On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Heads up
>=20
> Adrian
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
]
>> On Behalf Of [email-masked]
>> Sent: 15 November 2012 23:18
>> To: [email-masked]
>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
>>=20
>> A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>>=20
>>=20
>>    Title         : IRS Use Case for IP and Transport Workflows
>>    Author(s)     : G. Mattson, et al
>>    Filename      : draft-mattson-irs-usecase
>>    Pages         : 8
>>    Date          : Nov. 15, 2012
>>=20
>>   This document describes use-cases for IRS to provide a lightweight
>>   method for common management and control state for typical operations
>>   and workflows of multilayer networks involving both IP and sub-IP
>>   transport. IRS provides a lightweight, streaming interface between
>>   routing systems and external applications. By extending the IRS model
>>   to transport systems, multi-layer networks can be managed and used
>>   more efficiently. IRS may enable the integration of IP and transport
>>   maintenance workflows leading to a reduction in operational costs.
>>   IRS server having visibility into both Optical Transport and IP
>>   domains will also be able to make optimal use of transport
>>   infrastructure.
>>=20
>>=20
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
>>=20
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>=20
>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> Internet-Draft.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:41:04 -0500
From: Lou Berger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt

Adrian, Authors,
	This document seems to omit the case where there is an IP based control
plane on the transport gear.  Is this intentional (or did I miss it)?
It seems like this should be part of the the "Transport Workflow" use
case...

Lou

On 11/16/2012 11:42 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Heads up
> 
> Adrian
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
>> On Behalf Of [email-masked]
>> Sent: 15 November 2012 23:18
>> To: [email-masked]
>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
>>
>> A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>>
>>
>>     Title         : IRS Use Case for IP and Transport Workflows
>>     Author(s)     : G. Mattson, et al
>>     Filename      : draft-mattson-irs-usecase
>>     Pages         : 8
>>     Date          : Nov. 15, 2012
>>
>>    This document describes use-cases for IRS to provide a lightweight
>>    method for common management and control state for typical operations
>>    and workflows of multilayer networks involving both IP and sub-IP
>>    transport. IRS provides a lightweight, streaming interface between
>>    routing systems and external applications. By extending the IRS model
>>    to transport systems, multi-layer networks can be managed and used
>>    more efficiently. IRS may enable the integration of IP and transport
>>    maintenance workflows leading to a reduction in operational costs.
>>    IRS server having visibility into both Optical Transport and IP
>>    domains will also be able to make optimal use of transport
>>    infrastructure.
>>
>>
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> Internet-Draft.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> 
> 
> 
> 

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:42:41 -0000
Subject: [irs-discuss] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Heads up

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of [email-masked]
> Sent: 15 November 2012 23:18
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
> 
> A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
> 
> 
>     Title         : IRS Use Case for IP and Transport Workflows
>     Author(s)     : G. Mattson, et al
>     Filename      : draft-mattson-irs-usecase
>     Pages         : 8
>     Date          : Nov. 15, 2012
> 
>    This document describes use-cases for IRS to provide a lightweight
>    method for common management and control state for typical operations
>    and workflows of multilayer networks involving both IP and sub-IP
>    transport. IRS provides a lightweight, streaming interface between
>    routing systems and external applications. By extending the IRS model
>    to transport systems, multi-layer networks can be managed and used
>    more efficiently. IRS may enable the integration of IP and transport
>    maintenance workflows leading to a reduction in operational costs.
>    IRS server having visibility into both Optical Transport and IP
>    domains will also be able to make optimal use of transport
>    infrastructure.
> 
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mattson-irs-usecase-00.txt
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:43:25 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [irs-discuss] [[email-masked]: 2nd wg last call on interfaces / ip / routing data models]
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>

--1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Hi,

I am forwarding this here since IRS people may want to have a second
look at the IP routing data model currently being finalized in the
NETMOD working group.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Disposition: inline

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:40:24 +0100
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: 2nd wg last call on interfaces / ip / routing data models
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]

Hi,

this is the start of the 2nd WG last call on the following set of
documents:

  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-08
  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-07
  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-06

A related document, the YANG version of the interface type and
AFN/SAFI IANA registries, had no issues raised during 1st WG last call
and has not changed:

  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-iana-if-type-04

Please review the documents and raise any issues you might discover by
opening a thread on the mailing list. Editorial fixes can be sent
directly to the document editors.

Please indicate your support by *Friday, November 30, 2012*. We are
not only interested in receiving defect reports, we are equally
interested in statements of the form:

  "I have reviewed I-D XYZ and I found no issues"
  "I have implemented the data model in I-D XYZ"
  "I am implementing the data model in I-D XYZ"
  "I am considering to implement the data model in I-D XYZ"

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--1yeeQ81UyVL57Vl7--

From: Thomas Nadeau <[email-masked]>
To: Shane Amante <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:21:22 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake!

we should also include the corresponding topology use cases.

Tom=20

On Nov 13, 2012, at 8:57 AM, "Shane Amante" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>=20
> On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> Can we have some constructive discussion about which use cases to includ=
e in the
>> charter and which ones to exclude.
>>=20
>> I am pretty sure I heard the BoF say that they wanted to reduce the scop=
e by
>> cutting down on the use cases, and as I said at the meeting I am worried=
 that
>> this just means that each person wants to limit the scope their favorite=
 use
>> case. So we will only get victory if there is considerable convergence o=
n what
>> the favorite is.
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>=20
> I would like to offer potentially narrowing the scope to use cases to tho=
se described in:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-00
> ... and in Sections 2 through 4 of:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-irs-use-case-00
> (To be completely fair, draft-white did appear /first/ in the I-D archive=
s, but IMO it's good to see that independent draft authors share similar ne=
eds :-).
>=20
> My reason for suggesting this are as follows:
> a)  If one takes a step back and looks at overall "SDN" landscape, Inter-=
Domain seems to not be visible on the radar (particularly for Openflow), fo=
r now.  This makes sense given Inter-Domain is hard problem to solve, given=
 the legitimate concerns that raises wrt authentication/trust boundaries, e=
tc.  Furthermore, the use cases described in I-D's, above, are about readin=
g, digesting and then manipulating BGP characteristics /inside of/ one AS (=
sidestepping those thorny issues) ... however, clearly once information is =
injected into BGP it will get carried across AS boundaries, whose propertie=
s are already understood.  IMO, this solves a need that other SDN approache=
s have not (yet, if ever).
> b)  When looking at BGP, as a whole, it seems like there may be a few dif=
ferent dimensions of the BGP protocol that might be a useful starting place=
 for the initial scope of the I2RS work.  Namely, BGP is a protocol whose o=
peration depends on policies -- specifically, routing policies that are lar=
gely defined offboard routers, but that need to be applied consistently acr=
oss the _entire_ network of routers.  As one example, think of the need to =
classify some set of interfaces as belonging to "customers" vs. "peers" and=
, after that, applying different routing policies against those classes of =
BGP sessions.  Another example is here:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-01#section-4.3
> ... where an operator needs to know which subset of routers are "Route Re=
flectors" in order to apply appropriate policy consistently on all of them,=
 (in that case: defining RT's to filter routes send toward legacy PE's).  I=
MO, getting an early start on these routing policies and defining the seman=
tics of how/where they apply to a subset of network elements in the network=
 is extremely valuable and, ultimately, would benefit all future use cases =
of I2RS.
> c)  Finally, as I noted in my presentation at IETF 85, BGP policy represe=
nts the overwhelming majority of configuration on routers and a substantial=
 amount of the ongoing 'touches' to routers.  Thus, it makes sense to have =
a standardized, programmatic access to read and write such information on r=
outers.
>=20
> Finally, as an operator, I can certainly say that optimizing control over=
 BGP *just Intra-AS* would be of a _substantial_ benefit.
>=20
> Just my $0.02,
>=20
> -shane
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20

From: Shane Amante <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:57:22 -0700
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake!

On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Can we have some constructive discussion about which use cases to =
include in the
> charter and which ones to exclude.
>=20
> I am pretty sure I heard the BoF say that they wanted to reduce the =
scope by
> cutting down on the use cases, and as I said at the meeting I am =
worried that
> this just means that each person wants to limit the scope their =
favorite use
> case. So we will only get victory if there is considerable convergence =
on what
> the favorite is.
>=20
> Thoughts?

I would like to offer potentially narrowing the scope to use cases to =
those described in:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-00
... and in Sections 2 through 4 of:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-irs-use-case-00
(To be completely fair, draft-white did appear /first/ in the I-D =
archives, but IMO it's good to see that independent draft authors share =
similar needs :-).

My reason for suggesting this are as follows:
a)  If one takes a step back and looks at overall "SDN" landscape, =
Inter-Domain seems to not be visible on the radar (particularly for =
Openflow), for now.  This makes sense given Inter-Domain is hard problem =
to solve, given the legitimate concerns that raises wrt =
authentication/trust boundaries, etc.  Furthermore, the use cases =
described in I-D's, above, are about reading, digesting and then =
manipulating BGP characteristics /inside of/ one AS (sidestepping those =
thorny issues) ... however, clearly once information is injected into =
BGP it will get carried across AS boundaries, whose properties are =
already understood.  IMO, this solves a need that other SDN approaches =
have not (yet, if ever).
b)  When looking at BGP, as a whole, it seems like there may be a few =
different dimensions of the BGP protocol that might be a useful starting =
place for the initial scope of the I2RS work.  Namely, BGP is a protocol =
whose operation depends on policies -- specifically, routing policies =
that are largely defined offboard routers, but that need to be applied =
consistently across the _entire_ network of routers.  As one example, =
think of the need to classify some set of interfaces as belonging to =
"customers" vs. "peers" and, after that, applying different routing =
policies against those classes of BGP sessions.  Another example is =
here:
=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-keyupate-irs-bgp-usecases-01#section-4.3
... where an operator needs to know which subset of routers are "Route =
Reflectors" in order to apply appropriate policy consistently on all of =
them, (in that case: defining RT's to filter routes send toward legacy =
PE's).  IMO, getting an early start on these routing policies and =
defining the semantics of how/where they apply to a subset of network =
elements in the network is extremely valuable and, ultimately, would =
benefit all future use cases of I2RS.
c)  Finally, as I noted in my presentation at IETF 85, BGP policy =
represents the overwhelming majority of configuration on routers and a =
substantial amount of the ongoing 'touches' to routers.  Thus, it makes =
sense to have a standardized, programmatic access to read and write such =
information on routers.

Finally, as an operator, I can certainly say that optimizing control =
over BGP *just Intra-AS* would be of a _substantial_ benefit.

Just my $0.02,

-shane=

From: t.petch <[email-masked]>
To: Iftekhar Hussain <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:19:49 +0000
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

---- Original Message -----
From: "Iftekhar Hussain" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

> Both I2RS and ITRS seem okay.

Except that '2' gets misread as 'Z'.  It is generally a bad idea to mix
digits in with letters; all letters is the more human, the more natural,
less likely to be copied or typed in error.
I2RS is unlikely to have many existing direct matches in search engines
simply because it is unnatural.

Tom Petch

 > Regards,
> Iftekhar

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:07:37 -0000
Subject: [irs-discuss] Now you're all awake!
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Can we have some constructive discussion about which use cases to include in the
charter and which ones to exclude.

I am pretty sure I heard the BoF say that they wanted to reduce the scope by
cutting down on the use cases, and as I said at the meeting I am worried that
this just means that each person wants to limit the scope their favorite use
case. So we will only get victory if there is considerable convergence on what
the favorite is.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Adrian

From: Mach Chen <[email-masked]>
To: "Shah, Himanshu" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:05:48 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN
Subject: [irs-discuss] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFdoYXQncyBpbiBhIG5hbWU/?=

From: Jeff Tantsura <[email-masked]>
To: "Senad.palislamovic" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:48:40 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>, Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Same here, I2IRS

Regards,
Jeff

On Nov 12, 2012, at 18:09, "Senad.palislamovic" <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:

> +1 for I2RS
>=20
> /senad
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>> My first set of suggestions:
>>=20
>> I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
>>=20
>> IRNE - interface to routing network element.
>> IRE - interface to routing element
>> INE - interface to network element.
>> APIRS - API to RS.
>> APIRE
>>=20
>> Ravi=20
>> On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>>=20
>>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I=
've had
>>> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not =
want to
>>> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>>>=20
>>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we =
really
>>> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used=
 for
>>> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>>>=20
>>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS=
 need to
>>> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to=
 be
>>> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibl=
y reach a
>>> serious conclusion quickly.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> irs-discuss mailing list
>>> [email-masked]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: "Senad.palislamovic" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:05:17 -0800
To: Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

+1 for I2RS

/senad

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2012, at 7:06 AM, Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]> wrote:

> My first set of suggestions:
>=20
> I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
>=20
> IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> IRE - interface to routing element
> INE - interface to network element.
> APIRS - API to RS.
> APIRE
>=20
> Ravi=20
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v=
e had
>> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not wa=
nt to
>> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>>=20
>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we re=
ally
>> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f=
or
>> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>>=20
>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS n=
eed to
>> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b=
e
>> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly r=
each a
>> serious conclusion quickly.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: Iftekhar Hussain <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:04:45 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Both I2RS and ITRS seem okay.

Regards,
Iftekhar

From: "Roque Gagliano (rogaglia)" <[email-masked]>
To: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 01:05:50 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>, "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>, Russell Harrison <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

-1 on ITRs.

Bad timing also to chose that name as the ITU is discussing ITRs in next WC=
IT conference. More info here:
http://www.internetsociety.org/itr

Roque

On Nov 12, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Daniel Awduche wrote:

> I concur. ITRS and I2RS are both good alternatives to IRS.=20
>=20
>=20
> Regards,
> Daniel O. Awduche
> Sent from my Mobile
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Russell Harrison <[email-masked]>
> Sender: [email-masked]
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:44:00=20
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> I don't think the name matters too much - but anything other than IRS
> would have a positive influence on the signal to noise ratio of search
> results.
>=20
> -RH
>=20
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Benson Schliesser
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> I don't have a strong opinion about using the name "IRS". On one hand, I
>> doubt it matters much; given a little context I don't expect anybody wil=
l be
>> confused about what it is. On the other hand, a different name might hel=
p
>> with web searches, avoid misunderstandings, etc.
>>=20
>> So, if the ADs aren't bothered by the name IRS then I propose we keep it=
 and
>> move forward with technical discussion. Alternatively, if the ADs would
>> prefer a different name then I propose something like Routing Influence
>> System (RIS) [*], or indeed any of the suggestions made this morning. Th=
e
>> only thing that's important is to make the choice quickly, to keep focus=
 on
>> technical discussion instead.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> -Benson
>>=20
>> * ...because Routing Influence Protocol (RIP) seemed like another flavor=
 of
>> the same problem...
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:23:06 -0000
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [irs-discuss] Change name of a mailing list
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi Secretariat,

Can you help us migrate a mailing list?

We currently have [email-masked].
Can you migrate it to [email-masked] ?

We would like:
- all subscribers to be migrated
- all archives to be migrated if possible
- new posts to irs-discuss to be bounced with a message saying list closed,
please post to i2rs
- new subscription requests to be refused

Many thanks,
Adrian

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:20:10 -0000
Subject: [irs-discuss] Enough already [Was: What's in a name?]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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I can't pretend I didn't know what was going to happen. I knew you would all
ignore my request for moderation.
 
I am swayed by the Google results (although I suspect Ed could fix it for us).
I hear the claim that we should name the work to allow future ocean boiling and
will *not* be swayed by it.
 
Given that an early name change is desirable, I will work with the Secretariat
to change the name to I2RS and let you know when it happens.
 
Thanks,
Adrian

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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I can't pretend I didn't know =
what was going to happen. I knew you would all ignore my request for =
moderation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I am swayed by the Google =
results (although I suspect Ed could fix it for =
us).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I hear the claim that we =
should name the work to allow future ocean boiling and will *not* be =
swayed by it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Given that an early name =
change is desirable, I will work with the Secretariat to change the name =
to I2RS and let you know when it happens.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_02BB_01CDC134.A6534E70--

Sender: [email-masked]
From: Sriganesh Kini <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:13:55 -0800
To: "Zach Seils (seils)" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "Palani Chinnakannan \(pals\)" <[email-masked]>, Jakob Heitz <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Palani, Zach,

I agree it is more than routing. But 'network' is too wide and could be
argued that it goes beyond IETF's domain. Also we should not use any
element specific terminology since this goes beyond a single network
element. An alternative may have been to use IETF specific encaps such as
TCP/IP and MPLS in the acronym but that would make it too long.  IMO
'Routing' is the closest alternative for this charter and is also
identified with IETF's activities.

I also think it is useful to qualify the 'Interface' in any acronym as
'Programmatic', to differentiate it against the plethora of interfaces that
already exist.

Thanks

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Zach Seils (seils) <[email-masked]>wrote=
:

>  I agree with this take.  It=E2=80=99s about more than just routing.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> Zach****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
]
> *On Behalf Of *Palani Chinnakannan (pals)
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM
> *To:* Jakob Heitz
>
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?****
>
>  ** **
>
> In general,  the reason why some of us feel that we should a use a much
> generic name like INS (Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to
> network element) etc is because the  operations, data models and the
> requirements spelled out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing
> table.  IMHO,  its scope is a full network system.  By introducing a name
> at a higher scope paves way for defining several other interface to
> components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE =E2=80=A6) in a =
consistent
> framework as spelled in IRS.****
>
> ** **
>
> pals****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
<[email-masked]>]
> *On Behalf Of *Jakob Heitz
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?****
>
> ** **
>
> The similarity between****
>
> Routing Information Protocol****
>
> and****
>
> Rest In Peace****
>
> never confused anyone.****
>
> Did it?****
>
> --
> Jakob Heitz.****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]=
]
> *On Behalf Of *Sriganesh Kini
> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?****
>
> PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface ****
>
> ** **
>
> Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS,
> besides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't s=
ee
> a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]>
> wrote:****
>
> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v=
e
> had
> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not
> want to
> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we
> really
> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f=
or
> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS
> need to
> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b=
e
> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly
> reach a
> serious conclusion quickly.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> - Sri****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>
>

--=20
- Sri

--f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52
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Hi Palani, Zach,<div><br></div><div>I agree it is more than routing. But &#=
39;network&#39; is too wide and could be argued that it goes beyond IETF&#3=
9;s domain. Also we should not use any element specific terminology since t=
his goes beyond a single network element. An alternative may have been to u=
se IETF specific encaps such as TCP/IP and MPLS in the acronym but that wou=
ld make it too long. =C2=A0IMO &#39;Routing&#39; is the closest alternative=
 for this charter and is also identified with IETF&#39;s activities.</div>

<div><br></div><div>I also think it is useful to qualify the &#39;Interface=
&#39; in any acronym as &#39;Programmatic&#39;, to differentiate it against=
 the plethora of interfaces that already exist.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><=
div>

Thanks<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:18 PM, =
Zach Seils (seils) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">

<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1f497d">I agree with this take.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s about more than =
just routing.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1f497d">Zach<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss-boun=
[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Palani Chinnakannan (pals)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz</span></p><div><div><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-di=
[email-masked]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What&#39;s in a name?<u></u><u></u></div>=
</div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">In general,=C2=A0 the rea=
son why some of us feel that we should a use a much generic name like INS (=
Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to network element)
 etc is because the=C2=A0 operations, data models and the requirements spel=
led out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table.=C2=A0 IMHO,=C2=
=A0 its scope is a full network system.=C2=A0 By introducing a name at a hi=
gher scope paves way for defining several other interface
 to components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE =E2=80=A6) in =
a consistent framework as spelled in IRS.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">pals<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discu=
[email-masked]</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-di=
[email-masked]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What&#39;s in a name?<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">The similarity between</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Routing Information Protocol</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">and</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Rest In Peace</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">never confused anyone.</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Did it?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">--</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Jakob Heitz.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid purple 1.5pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discu=
[email-masked]</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.=
org]" target=3D"_blank">
[mailto:[email-masked]]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kin=
i<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">adrian@=
olddog.co.uk</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-di=
[email-masked]</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What&#39;s in a name?</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has l=
ong been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search resu=
lts.=C2=A0Also, I don&#39;t see a good reason to include &#39;System&#39; i=
n the acronym.<u></u><u></u></p>

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym =
to use a bit sad. I&#39;ve had<br>
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to<br>
spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
<br>
However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly<br>
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for=
<br>
something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
<br>
Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to<br>
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don&#39;t need suggestions to=
 be<br>
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a<br>
serious conclusion quickly.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><u></u><u></u></p=
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br>
- Sri<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>- Sri<br=
</div>

--f46d043c7b14fa889004ce554c52--

From: "Monique Morrow (mmorrow)" <[email-masked]>
To: Edward Crabbe <[email-masked]>, "Shishio Tsuchiya (shtsuchi)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 21:33:23 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+2

Monique
________________________________
From: [email-masked] [[email-masked]] on behalf=
 of Edward Crabbe [[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:32 AM
To: Shishio Tsuchiya (shtsuchi)
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Doh.

+1 for I2RS

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchiya <[email-masked]<mail=
to:[email-masked]>> wrote:
+1 for I2RS
IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japan ISP oper=
ators.
http://irs.ietf.to/

Regards,
-Shishio

(2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> Agree.
>
> Favor I2RS as name..
>
> /himanshu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [=
mailto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>] O=
n Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM
> To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>; irs-dis=
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>
> Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web =
search results.
> Best,
> Ravi
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

--_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style>
</head>
<body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">&#43;2 &nbsp;
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Monique<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF359488" style=3D"direction: ltr; "><font face=3D"Tahoma" s=
ize=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> [email-masked] [irs-=
[email-masked]] on behalf of Edward Crabbe [[email-masked]]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shishio Tsuchiya (shtsuchi)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]; [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">Doh.&=
nbsp;
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&#43;1 for I2RS<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchi=
ya <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shtsuchi@cisco.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
&#43;1 for I2RS<br>
IRS are using as &quot;Inter-Domain Routing Security&quot; meeting for Japa=
n ISP operators.<br>
<a href=3D"http://irs.ietf.to/" target=3D"_blank">http://irs.ietf.to/</a><b=
r>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Shishio<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
(2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:<br>
&gt; Agree.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Favor I2RS as name..<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; /himanshu<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:irs-discuss-bo=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>] On Beha=
lf Of Raveendra Torvi<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM<br>
&gt; To: Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner w=
eb search results.<br>
&gt; Best,<br>
&gt; Ravi<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@=
ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_0F42355D5FDE704D98EAEFE817A6528A152E9524xmbalnx10ciscoc_--

From: "Zach Seils (seils)" <[email-masked]>
To: "Palani Chinnakannan (pals)" <[email-masked]>, Jakob Heitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:18:55 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree with this take.  It's about more than just routing.

Regards,
Zach

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Palani Chinnakannan (pals)
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM
To: Jakob Heitz
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

In general,  the reason why some of us feel that we should a use a much gen=
eric name like INS (Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to netwo=
rk element) etc is because the  operations, data models and the requirement=
s spelled out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table.  IMHO,  it=
s scope is a full network system.  By introducing a name at a higher scope =
paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (=
routing, transport, network, NE ...) in a consistent framework as spelled i=
n IRS.

pals

From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jakob Heitz
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Cc: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

The similarity between
Routing Information Protocol
and
Rest In Peace
never confused anyone.
Did it?

--
Jakob Heitz.

________________________________
From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]]<mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.=
org]> On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM
To: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface

Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, b=
esides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see =
a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]<mailto:=
[email-masked]>> wrote:
Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've =
had
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to
spend any more time on this sort of thing.

However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
something else) we need to find a solution soon.

Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a
serious conclusion quickly.

Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

--
- Sri

--_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1F497D">I agree with this take.&nbsp; It&#8217;s about more than ju=
st routing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1F497D">Zach<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas=
;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> irs-disc=
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Palani Chinnakannan (pals)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jakob Heitz<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In general,&nbsp; the rea=
son why some of us feel that we should a use a much generic name like INS (=
Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to network element)
 etc is because the&nbsp; operations, data models and the requirements spel=
led out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table.&nbsp; IMHO,&nbsp=
; its scope is a full network system.&nbsp; By introducing a name at a high=
er scope paves way for defining several other interface
 to components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE &#8230;) in a =
consistent framework as spelled in IRS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">pals<o:p></o:p></span></p=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
g</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:irs-discuss-b=
[email-masked]</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">The similarity between</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Routing Information Protocol</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">and</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Rest In Peace</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">never confused anyone.</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Did it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">--</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Jakob Heitz.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid purple 1.5pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
g</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:[email-masked]]">
[mailto:[email-masked]]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kin=
i<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><b=
r>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has l=
ong been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search resu=
lts.&nbsp;Also, I don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acrony=
m.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym =
to use a bit sad. I've had<br>
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to<br>
spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
<br>
However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly<br>
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for=
<br>
something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
<br>
Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to<br>
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be<=
br>
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a<br>
serious conclusion quickly.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br>
- Sri<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_4FF6CF4D6CDC5C4D9B1AE073B14B040D073F41xmbalnx14ciscocom_--

From: "Palani Chinnakannan (pals)" <[email-masked]>
To: Jakob Heitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:17:07 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In general,  the reason why some of us feel that we should a use a much gen=
eric name like INS (Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to netwo=
rk element) etc is because the  operations, data models and the requirement=
s spelled out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table.  IMHO,  it=
s scope is a full network system.  By introducing a name at a higher scope =
paves way for defining several other interface to components of a network (=
routing, transport, network, NE ...) in a consistent framework as spelled i=
n IRS.

pals

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Jakob Heitz
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

The similarity between
Routing Information Protocol
and
Rest In Peace
never confused anyone.
Did it?

--
Jakob Heitz.

________________________________
From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]]<mailto:[mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.=
org]> On Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM
To: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface

Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, b=
esides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see =
a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]<mailto:=
[email-masked]>> wrote:
Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've =
had
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to
spend any more time on this sort of thing.

However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
something else) we need to find a solution soon.

Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a
serious conclusion quickly.

Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

--
- Sri

--_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In general,&nbsp; the rea=
son why some of us feel that we should a use a much generic name like INS (=
Interface to network system) or INE (Interface to network element)
 etc is because the&nbsp; operations, data models and the requirements spel=
led out in IRS as much wider scope that the routing table.&nbsp; IMHO,&nbsp=
; its scope is a full network system.&nbsp; By introducing a name at a high=
er scope paves way for defining several other interface
 to components of a network (routing, transport, network, NE &#8230;) in a =
consistent framework as spelled in IRS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">pals<o:p></o:p></span></p=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> irs-disc=
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jakob Heitz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 11:56 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">The similarity between</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Routing Information Protocol</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">and</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Rest In Peace</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">never confused anyone.</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Lu=
cida Console&quot;;color:purple">Did it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">--</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">Jakob Heitz.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid purple 1.5pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
g</a> <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:[email-masked]]">
[mailto:[email-masked]]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kin=
i<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><b=
r>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has l=
ong been buried. IRS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search resu=
lts.&nbsp;Also, I don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acrony=
m.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym =
to use a bit sad. I've had<br>
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to<br>
spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
<br>
However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly<br>
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for=
<br>
something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
<br>
Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to<br>
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be<=
br>
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a<br>
serious conclusion quickly.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br>
- Sri<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_7AB3E60F793B2E42BA2E4A8A761E249C756D8Fxmbalnx05ciscocom_--

From: Jakob Heitz <[email-masked]>
CC: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:56:20 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The similarity between
Routing Information Protocol
and
Rest In Peace
never confused anyone.
Did it?

--
Jakob Heitz.

________________________________
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Sriganesh Kini
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface

Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, b=
esides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see =
a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]<mailto:=
[email-masked]>> wrote:
Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've =
had
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to
spend any more time on this sort of thing.

However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
something else) we need to find a solution soon.

Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a
serious conclusion quickly.

Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

--
- Sri

--_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
<meta content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18686" name=3D"GENERATOR">
</head>
<body>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800=
080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">The similarity between</=
span></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800=
080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">Routing Information Prot=
ocol</span></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800=
080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">and</span></font></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800=
080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">Rest In Peace</span></fo=
nt></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800=
080" size=3D"2"><span class=3D"134055419-12112012">never confused anyone.</=
span></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Lucida Console" color=3D"#800080" size=3D"2"><span class=
=3D"134055419-12112012">Did it?</span></font></div>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<p><span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">--</font></span> <b=
r>
<span lang=3D"en-us"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Jakob Heitz.</font></s=
pan></p>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<br>
<blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE=
R-LEFT: #800080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div class=3D"OutlookMessageHeader" lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"lef=
t">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> [email-masked] =
[mailto:[email-masked]]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sriganesh Kini<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 12, 2012 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. I=
RS, besides the obvious clash can mess up the search results.&nbsp;Also, I =
don't see a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <=
span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've =
had<br>
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to<br>
spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
<br>
However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly<br>
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for=
<br>
something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
<br>
Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to<br>
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be<=
br>
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a<br>
serious conclusion quickly.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
- Sri<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E0D898DEUSAAMB109ericsso_--

Sender: [email-masked]
From: Sriganesh Kini <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:55:08 -0800
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface

Though this clashes with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS,
besides the obvious clash can mess up the search results. Also, I don't see
a good reason to include 'System' in the acronym.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've
> had
> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not
> want to
> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we
> really
> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS
> need to
> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly
> reach a
> serious conclusion quickly.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

-- 
- Sri

--f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

PRI - Programmatic Routing Interface<div><br></div><div>Though this clashes=
 with PRI of ISDN fame that has long been buried. IRS, besides the obvious =
clash can mess up the search results.=C2=A0Also, I don&#39;t see a good rea=
son to include &#39;System&#39; in the acronym.</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 1=
2, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Adrian Farrel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Personally, I find discussions of what name/=
acronym to use a bit sad. I&#39;ve had<br>
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to<br>
spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
<br>
However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly<br>
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for=
<br>
something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
<br>
Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to<br>
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don&#39;t need suggestions to=
 be<br>
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a<br>
serious conclusion quickly.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">irs-discuss@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>- Sri<br>
</div>

--f46d043c7b14e4ca7704ce50d820--

From: Edward Crabbe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 10:32:06 -0800
To: Shishio Tsuchiya <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Doh.

+1 for I2RS

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchiya <[email-masked]>wrote:

> +1 for I2RS
> IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japan ISP
> operators.
> http://irs.ietf.to/
>
> Regards,
> -Shishio
>
> (2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> > Agree.
> >
> > Favor I2RS as name..
> >
> > /himanshu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi
> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM
> > To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
> >
> > Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web
> search results.
> > Best,
> > Ravi
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

--047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Doh.=
=A0<div><br></div><div>+1 for I2RS<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon=
, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Shishio Tsuchiya <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">+1 for I2RS<br>
IRS are using as &quot;Inter-Domain Routing Security&quot; meeting for Japa=
n ISP operators.<br>
<a href=3D"http://irs.ietf.to/" target=3D"_blank">http://irs.ietf.to/</a><b=
r>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Shishio<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
(2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:<br>
&gt; Agree.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Favor I2RS as name..<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; /himanshu<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-boun=
[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ir=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM<br>
&gt; To: Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What&#39;s in a name?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Using acronym other than &#39;IRS&#39; makes sense to me as it gives c=
leaner web search results.<br>
&gt; Best,<br>
&gt; Ravi<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--047d7b67898a26554f04ce508715--

Sensitivity: Normal
Importance: Normal
To: "Russell Harrison" <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
From: "Daniel Awduche" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:15:37 +0000
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 03:08:47 +0900
From: Shishio Tsuchiya <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

+1 for I2RS
IRS are using as "Inter-Domain Routing Security" meeting for Japan ISP operators.
http://irs.ietf.to/

Regards,
-Shishio

(2012/11/13 2:39), Shah, Himanshu wrote:
> Agree.
> 
> Favor I2RS as name..
> 
> /himanshu
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM
> To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
> 
> Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web search results.
> Best,
> Ravi
> 
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> 

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:58:54 +0000
From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
To: Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
Cc: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 12/11/2012 17:20, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web search results.
> Best,
> Ravi
Good point. Searching for "IRS" is hopeless, although searching for "IRS 
IETF" gets this work as the top hit.

S

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:44:00 -0600
From: Russell Harrison <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I don't think the name matters too much - but anything other than IRS
would have a positive influence on the signal to noise ratio of search
results.

-RH

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Benson Schliesser
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> I don't have a strong opinion about using the name "IRS". On one hand, I
> doubt it matters much; given a little context I don't expect anybody will be
> confused about what it is. On the other hand, a different name might help
> with web searches, avoid misunderstandings, etc.
>
> So, if the ADs aren't bothered by the name IRS then I propose we keep it and
> move forward with technical discussion. Alternatively, if the ADs would
> prefer a different name then I propose something like Routing Influence
> System (RIS) [*], or indeed any of the suggestions made this morning. The
> only thing that's important is to make the choice quickly, to keep focus on
> technical discussion instead.
>
> Cheers,
> -Benson
>
> * ...because Routing Influence Protocol (RIP) seemed like another flavor of
> the same problem...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

From: "Shah, Himanshu" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:39:45 -0500
Accept-Language: en-US
acceptlanguage: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Agree.=20

Favor I2RS as name..

/himanshu

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Raveendra Torvi
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:20 PM
To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web se=
arch results.
Best,
Ravi

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:41:52 -0500
From: Benson Schliesser <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I don't have a strong opinion about using the name "IRS". On one hand, I 
doubt it matters much; given a little context I don't expect anybody 
will be confused about what it is. On the other hand, a different name 
might help with web searches, avoid misunderstandings, etc.

So, if the ADs aren't bothered by the name IRS then I propose we keep it 
and move forward with technical discussion. Alternatively, if the ADs 
would prefer a different name then I propose something like Routing 
Influence System (RIS) [*], or indeed any of the suggestions made this 
morning. The only thing that's important is to make the choice quickly, 
to keep focus on technical discussion instead.

Cheers,
-Benson

* ...because Routing Influence Protocol (RIP) seemed like another flavor 
of the same problem...

From: "Andrew McLachlan (amclachl)" <[email-masked]>
To: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:41 +0000
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm ok with the current one, and it's kinda stuck in a lot of peoples minds=
. Might be a bit like changing the name of a puppy after 6 months of callin=
g him Rover....

On 12 Nov 2012, at 17:11, Alia Atlas <[email-masked]<mailto:akatlas@gmai=
l.com>>
 wrote:

IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.

Alia

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <[email-masked]<mailto:r=
[email-masked]>> wrote:
I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t=
o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m=
e of something else.

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>] On =
Behalf Of Lucy yong
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM
To: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>; Raveendra Torvi
Cc: <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; [email-masked]=
<mailto:[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I like this name: I2RS.
Lucy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [=
mailto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>]
> On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM
> To: Raveendra Torvi
> Cc: <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; [email-masked]=
rg<mailto:[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>
> On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> > My first set of suggestions:
> >
> > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
> That as well
>
> Stewart
>
> >
> > IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> > IRE - interface to routing element
> > INE - interface to network element.
> > APIRS - API to RS.
> > APIRE
> >
> > Ravi
> > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]<mailt=
o:[email-masked]>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
> I've had
> >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to
> not want to
> >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> >>
> >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If
> we really
> >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also
> used for
> >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> >>
> >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to
> IRS need to
> >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions
> to be
> >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
> possibly reach a
> >> serious conclusion quickly.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Adrian
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> irs-discuss mailing list
> >> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >
>
>
> --
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

--_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; ">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm ok with the current one, and it's kinda stuck in a lot of peoples =
minds. Might be a bit like changing the name of a puppy after 6 months of c=
alling him Rover....</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On 12 Nov 2012, at 17:11, Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gma=
il.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div>
<div>&nbsp;wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alia</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">rcallon@junipe=
r.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t=
o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m=
e of something else.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Ross<br>
</font></span>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-bounces@i=
etf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-dis=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of Lucy yong<br>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; Raveendra=
 Torvi<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;=
 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">
[email-masked]</a><br>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
<br>
I like this name: I2RS.<br>
Lucy<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-boun=
[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ir=
[email-masked]</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM<br>
&gt; To: Raveendra Torvi<br>
&gt; Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; My first set of suggestions:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I2RS- interface 2 routing system.<br>
&gt; That as well<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Stewart<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; IRNE - interface to routing network element.<br>
&gt; &gt; IRE - interface to routing element<br>
&gt; &gt; INE - interface to network element.<br>
&gt; &gt; APIRS - API to RS.<br>
&gt; &gt; APIRE<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ravi<br>
&gt; &gt; On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, &quot;Adrian Farrel&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a =
bit sad.<br>
&gt; I've had<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variabl=
es to<br>
&gt; not want to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; However, I note that there was some unease about the use of I=
RS. If<br>
&gt; we really<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is=
 also<br>
&gt; used for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong object=
ion to<br>
&gt; IRS need to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need sugg=
estions<br>
&gt; to be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we wi=
ll<br>
&gt; possibly reach a<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; serious conclusion quickly.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Adrian<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><=
br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; For corporate legal information go to:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ind=
ex.html" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss<br>
</div>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--_000_71856D87EAE6874FB4E434D2882D12A411C660xmbalnx08ciscocom_--

From: Geoffrey Mattson <[email-masked]>
To: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>, Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:51 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: Lucy yong <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

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I'd like to suggest:
Programmatic Interface to Routing System or PIRS.

There are other interfaces to the routing system but IRS is programmatic. S=
o=85

From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Date: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:11 AM
To: Ross Callon <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
Cc: Lucy yong <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>, "irs-dis=
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]<mailto:ir=
[email-masked]>>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.

Alia

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <[email-masked]<mailto:r=
[email-masked]>> wrote:
I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t=
o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m=
e of something else.

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>] On =
Behalf Of Lucy yong
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM
To: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>; Raveendra Torvi
Cc: <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; [email-masked]=
<mailto:[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I like this name: I2RS.
Lucy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [=
mailto:[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>]
> On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM
> To: Raveendra Torvi
> Cc: <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>; [email-masked]=
rg<mailto:[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>
> On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> > My first set of suggestions:
> >
> > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
> That as well
>
> Stewart
>
> >
> > IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> > IRE - interface to routing element
> > INE - interface to network element.
> > APIRS - API to RS.
> > APIRE
> >
> > Ravi
> > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]<mailt=
o:[email-masked]>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
> I've had
> >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to
> not want to
> >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> >>
> >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If
> we really
> >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also
> used for
> >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> >>
> >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to
> IRS need to
> >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions
> to be
> >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
> possibly reach a
> >> serious conclusion quickly.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Adrian
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> irs-discuss mailing list
> >> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >
>
>
> --
> For corporate legal information go to:
>
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>I'd like to suggest:</div>
<div>Programmatic Interface to Routing System or PIRS.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are other interfaces to the routing system but IRS is programmat=
ic. So=85</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 12, 2012 9:1=
1 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Ross Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Lucy yong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [irs-discuss] What's i=
n a name?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alia</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">rcallon@junipe=
r.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t=
o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m=
e of something else.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Ross<br>
</font></span>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-bounces@i=
etf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-dis=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of Lucy yong<br>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; Raveendra=
 Torvi<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;=
 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">
[email-masked]</a><br>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
<br>
I like this name: I2RS.<br>
Lucy<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-boun=
[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ir=
[email-masked]</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM<br>
&gt; To: Raveendra Torvi<br>
&gt; Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; My first set of suggestions:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I2RS- interface 2 routing system.<br>
&gt; That as well<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Stewart<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; IRNE - interface to routing network element.<br>
&gt; &gt; IRE - interface to routing element<br>
&gt; &gt; INE - interface to network element.<br>
&gt; &gt; APIRS - API to RS.<br>
&gt; &gt; APIRE<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ravi<br>
&gt; &gt; On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, &quot;Adrian Farrel&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a =
bit sad.<br>
&gt; I've had<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variabl=
es to<br>
&gt; not want to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; However, I note that there was some unease about the use of I=
RS. If<br>
&gt; we really<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is=
 also<br>
&gt; used for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong object=
ion to<br>
&gt; IRS need to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need sugg=
estions<br>
&gt; to be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we wi=
ll<br>
&gt; possibly reach a<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; serious conclusion quickly.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Adrian<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><=
br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; For corporate legal information go to:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ind=
ex.html" target=3D"_blank">
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

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From: Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
To: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:20:12 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Using acronym other than 'IRS' makes sense to me as it gives cleaner web se=
arch results.
Best,
Ravi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] =
On
> Behalf Of Ross Callon
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:30 AM
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> I don't like the "IRS" acronym due to the similarity to the US tax folks.
>=20
> RSI seems like a sensible acronym to me, and similar enough that people c=
an
> make the connection. I am not sure what else RSI stands for, but Googling
> it right now I didn't see anything that would either confuse us, sue us, =
or
> audit our taxes (repetitive strain injury being the most obvious use of i=
t
> -- I am assuming that Radio Slovakia won't notice if we use the acronym f=
or
> something else).
>=20
> Ross
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] =
On
> Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v=
e
> had
> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not wa=
nt
> to
> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>=20
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we
> really
> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f=
or
> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>=20
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS
> need to
> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b=
e
> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly
> reach a
> serious conclusion quickly.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:19:27 -0900
From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

On 11/12/12 8:11 AM, Alia Atlas wrote:
> IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.

Me too.  I'm fine with the name as-is and I'd be fine with renaming
it quickly.  I'd be less enthusiastic about beating this to death.

Melinda

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:11:39 -0500
From: Alia Atlas <[email-masked]>
To: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
Cc: Lucy yong <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.

Alia

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough
> to IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding
> me of something else.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of Lucy yong
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM
> To: [email-masked]; Raveendra Torvi
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>
> I like this name: I2RS.
> Lucy
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM
> > To: Raveendra Torvi
> > Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
> >
> > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> > > My first set of suggestions:
> > >
> > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
> > That as well
> >
> > Stewart
> >
> > >
> > > IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> > > IRE - interface to routing element
> > > INE - interface to network element.
> > > APIRS - API to RS.
> > > APIRE
> > >
> > > Ravi
> > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
> > I've had
> > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to
> > not want to
> > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> > >>
> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If
> > we really
> > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also
> > used for
> > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> > >>
> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to
> > IRS need to
> > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions
> > to be
> > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
> > possibly reach a
> > >> serious conclusion quickly.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Adrian
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> irs-discuss mailing list
> > >> [email-masked]
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > irs-discuss mailing list
> > > [email-masked]
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For corporate legal information go to:
> >
> > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

--20cf3036395b09764904ce4f65f4
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IRS, I2RS or ITRS all sound fine to me.<div><br></div><div>Alia</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 201=
2 at 11:21 AM, Ross Callon <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rcallon@=
juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. A=
ny of them are similar enough to IRS to help us make the connection, withou=
t being confused or reminding me of something else.<br>

<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Ross<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-bounces@i=
etf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-dis=
[email-masked]</a>] On Behalf Of Lucy yong<br>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; Raveendra=
 Torvi<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;;=
 <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What&#39;s in a name?<br>
<br>
I like this name: I2RS.<br>
Lucy<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss-boun=
[email-masked]</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ir=
[email-masked]</a>]<br>
&gt; On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM<br>
&gt; To: Raveendra Torvi<br>
&gt; Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What&#39;s in a name?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; My first set of suggestions:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I2RS- interface 2 routing system.<br>
&gt; That as well<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Stewart<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; IRNE - interface to routing network element.<br>
&gt; &gt; IRE - interface to routing element<br>
&gt; &gt; INE - interface to network element.<br>
&gt; &gt; APIRS - API to RS.<br>
&gt; &gt; APIRE<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ravi<br>
&gt; &gt; On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, &quot;Adrian Farrel&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a =
bit sad.<br>
&gt; I&#39;ve had<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variabl=
es to<br>
&gt; not want to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; However, I note that there was some unease about the use of I=
RS. If<br>
&gt; we really<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is=
 also<br>
&gt; used for<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong object=
ion to<br>
&gt; IRS need to<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don&#39;t need =
suggestions<br>
&gt; to be<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we wi=
ll<br>
&gt; possibly reach a<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; serious conclusion quickly.<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; Adrian<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br=
&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><=
br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; For corporate legal information go to:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ind=
ex.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/le=
gal/cri/index.html</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--20cf3036395b09764904ce4f65f4--

From: Edward Crabbe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:08:42 -0800
To: Hannes Gredler <[email-masked]>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

--047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

+1

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Hannes Gredler <[email-masked]> wrote:

> for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as one
> might guess.
> it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press
> articles, in-house chatter)
> and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further
> confusion;
> keeping status quo is IMO less painful;
>
> /hannes
>
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>
> > Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
> I've had
> > enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not
> want to
> > spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> >
> > However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we
> really
> > need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used
> for
> > something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> >
> > Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS
> need to
> > contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to
> be
> > floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly
> reach a
> > serious conclusion quickly.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

--047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">+1<br>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Hannes Gred=
ler <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">for non US-taxpayers the name &#39;IRS&#39; =
is not as negative co-notated as one might guess.<br>
it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press ar=
ticles, in-house chatter)<br>
and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further confusi=
on;<br>
keeping status quo is IMO less painful;<br>
<br>
/hannes<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. =
I&#39;ve had<br>
&gt; enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not=
 want to<br>
&gt; spend any more time on this sort of thing.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we=
 really<br>
&gt; need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also use=
d for<br>
&gt; something else) we need to find a solution soon.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IR=
S need to<br>
&gt; contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don&#39;t need suggestio=
ns to be<br>
&gt; floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possib=
ly reach a<br>
&gt; serious conclusion quickly.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Adrian<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; irs-discuss mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
irs-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7b67846ed9223504ce4f5c3d--

From: Chris Grundemann <[email-masked]>
To: Hannes Gredler <[email-masked]>, Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:44:44 -0700
Accept-Language: en-US
acceptlanguage: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

On 11/12/12 8:04 AM, "Hannes Gredler" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as one
>might guess.
>it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press
>articles, in-house chatter)
>and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further
>confusion;
>keeping status quo is IMO less painful;

+1, context matters and I don't see the US revenue service getting
involved in routing anytime soon (or at least we can hope)=8A

I say stick with IRS.

$0.02
~Chris

>
>/hannes
>
>On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>
>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
>>I've had
>> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not
>>want to
>> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>>=20
>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we
>>really
>> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used
>>for
>> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>>=20
>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS
>>need to
>> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to
>>be
>> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
>>possibly reach a
>> serious conclusion quickly.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>>=20
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>irs-discuss mailing list
>[email-masked]
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:41:50 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked] (Noel Chiappa)
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

    > From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>

    > are similar enough to IRS to help us make the connection

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I myself prefer ITRS (4-letter acronyms have less chance of mental confusion
- when I see RSI, I think 'Repetitive Stress Injury').

	Noel

From: Lucy yong <[email-masked]>
To: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:27:28 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

IMO: ITRS may be better than I2RS. It has the indication for both Interface=
 To Routing System and IT to Routing System. The latter means a programmati=
c interface.

Lucy=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of Ross Callon
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:21 AM
> To: Lucy yong
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar
> enough to IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or
> reminding me of something else.
>=20
> Ross
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of Lucy yong
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM
> To: [email-masked]; Raveendra Torvi
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> I like this name: I2RS.
> Lucy
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email-masked] [mailto:irs-discuss-
> [email-masked]]
> > On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM
> > To: Raveendra Torvi
> > Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
> >
> > On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> > > My first set of suggestions:
> > >
> > > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
> > That as well
> >
> > Stewart
> >
> > >
> > > IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> > > IRE - interface to routing element
> > > INE - interface to network element.
> > > APIRS - API to RS.
> > > APIRE
> > >
> > > Ravi
> > > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit
> sad.
> > I've had
> > >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to
> > not want to
> > >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> > >>
> > >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS.
> If
> > we really
> > >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also
> > used for
> > >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> > >>
> > >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection
> to
> > IRS need to
> > >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need
> suggestions
> > to be
> > >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
> > possibly reach a
> > >> serious conclusion quickly.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Adrian
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> irs-discuss mailing list
> > >> [email-masked]
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > irs-discuss mailing list
> > > [email-masked]
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For corporate legal information go to:
> >
> > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
To: Lucy yong <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:21:00 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I am fine with any of: ITRS, I2RS, or RSI. Any of them are similar enough t=
o IRS to help us make the connection, without being confused or reminding m=
e of something else.=20

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Lucy yong
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:07 AM
To: [email-masked]; Raveendra Torvi
Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I like this name: I2RS.
Lucy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM
> To: Raveendra Torvi
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> > My first set of suggestions:
> >
> > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
> That as well
>=20
> Stewart
>=20
> >
> > IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> > IRE - interface to routing element
> > INE - interface to network element.
> > APIRS - API to RS.
> > APIRE
> >
> > Ravi
> > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
> I've had
> >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to
> not want to
> >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> >>
> >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If
> we really
> >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also
> used for
> >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> >>
> >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to
> IRS need to
> >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions
> to be
> >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
> possibly reach a
> >> serious conclusion quickly.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Adrian
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> irs-discuss mailing list
> >> [email-masked]
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >
>=20
>=20
> --
> For corporate legal information go to:
>=20
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: Lucy yong <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:07:06 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I like this name: I2RS.
Lucy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:44 AM
> To: Raveendra Torvi
> Cc: <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> > My first set of suggestions:
> >
> > I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
> That as well
>=20
> Stewart
>=20
> >
> > IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> > IRE - interface to routing element
> > INE - interface to network element.
> > APIRS - API to RS.
> > APIRE
> >
> > Ravi
> > On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
> I've had
> >> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to
> not want to
> >> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
> >>
> >> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If
> we really
> >> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also
> used for
> >> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
> >>
> >> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to
> IRS need to
> >> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions
> to be
> >> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will
> possibly reach a
> >> serious conclusion quickly.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Adrian
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> irs-discuss mailing list
> >> [email-masked]
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> >
>=20
>=20
> --
> For corporate legal information go to:
>=20
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:44:34 +0000
From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
To: Gert Grammel <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Please no, we might want one of those, and IRS does
a lot more.

Stewart

On 12/11/2012 15:19, Gert Grammel wrote:
> We have already a PCE, so why not go for a Route Computation Engine (RCE)?
>
> Gert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
> Sent: Montag, 12. November 2012 16:05
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>
> Hi All-
>
> How about IRE (system -> engine).
>
> n.b. I do not have any objection to IRS (they just charge too much tax ;-)) or favor to any name.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards...Zafar
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email-masked]
>> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM
>> To: [email-masked]
>> Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>>
>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.
>> I've had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of
>> variables to not want to spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>>
>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we
>> really need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is
>> also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>>
>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to
>> IRS need to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need
>> suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:43:31 +0000
From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
To: Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 12/11/2012 15:06, Raveendra Torvi wrote:
> My first set of suggestions:
>
> I2RS- interface 2 routing system.
That as well

Stewart

>
> IRNE - interface to routing network element.
> IRE - interface to routing element
> INE - interface to network element.
> APIRS - API to RS.
> APIRE
>
> Ravi
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've had
>> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to
>> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>>
>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we really
>> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
>> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>>
>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS need to
>> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
>> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a
>> serious conclusion quickly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>

-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:42:34 +0000
From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 12/11/2012 14:49, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've had
> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to
> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we really
> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS need to
> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a
> serious conclusion quickly.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>
I can sort of understand why IRS (which I assume has humor (without a u) in
its origin) causes concern to some. I guess I would mildly prefer another
name, but continuing with IRS is not a show stopper.

Why not simply put back one of the "T"s

The WG will be "Interface to the routing system" so how about ITRS.

- Stewart

From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:09 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

I don't like the "IRS" acronym due to the similarity to the US tax folks.=20

RSI seems like a sensible acronym to me, and similar enough that people can=
 make the connection. I am not sure what else RSI stands for, but Googling =
it right now I didn't see anything that would either confuse us, sue us, or=
 audit our taxes (repetitive strain injury being the most obvious use of it=
 -- I am assuming that Radio Slovakia won't notice if we use the acronym fo=
r something else).=20

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've =
had
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want=
 to
spend any more time on this sort of thing.

However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we real=
ly
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
something else) we need to find a solution soon.

Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS nee=
d to
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly re=
ach a
serious conclusion quickly.

Thanks,
Adrian

_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: Acee Lindem <[email-masked]>
To: Hannes Gredler <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:30:41 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]>, "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

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I also have no problem with IRS as the WG name. Furthermore, I am =
confident that, as a magnanimous US tax payer, I have more than paid the =
royalties on the usage of the acronym.=20
Having said that, the alternate name that comes to my mind is L3SDN. =
However, this may be considered a bit too broad.=20

Acee=20

On Nov 12, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Hannes Gredler wrote:

> for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as =
one might guess.
> it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle =
(press articles, in-house chatter)
> and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further =
confusion;
> keeping status quo is IMO less painful;
>=20
> /hannes
>=20
> On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>=20
>> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. =
I've had
>> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to =
not want to
>> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>>=20
>> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If =
we really
>> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also =
used for
>> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>>=20
>> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to =
IRS need to
>> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions =
to be
>> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will =
possibly reach a
>> serious conclusion quickly.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> irs-discuss mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:22:42 -0600
From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" <[email-masked]>
Organization: Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [irs-discuss] IRS and I2AEX BoF

All: During the discussion in Atlanta, I had pointed to some
overlap between IRS and a BoF held in Paris called i2aex (Infrastructure
to Application Information Exchange).  i2aex maintains that the
network infrastructure has volumnious amount of information that is
disseminated among the network infrastructure entities using many
existing protocols: BGP, IGP, netflow, CLI/SSH, SNMP, etc.  Applications
running outside the network infrastructure (or even in the network
infrastructure) would likely benefit from this information.  So, the
question is: in a fully- and partially-controlled environments,
how do we disseminate this information to the applications?
Do we need a new protocol for this?  Can we extend ALTO since a lot
of the requirements for this work came into the ALTO WG initially?

To some extent (modulo whether ALTO can be a candidate protocol), the
above captures the essence of slide 3 in [1].

We had a good discussion that may have some bearing on IRS.  For folks
who are interested, the slides and chunked audio stream (i.e., audio
stream corresponding to each agenda item discussion) is at [2].  i2aex
met as a non-WG forming BoF as well in Paris and concluded after having
met its objective in winnowing down the set of potential protocols that
could serve as an i2aex interface [3].

I understand that IRS is not looking for a specific protocol right now,
but some of what was discussed during i2aex may be of interest to the
IRS folks.

Please let me and Spencer Dawkins (co-chairs of i2aex BoF) know if you
have any specific questions.

[1] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-irs-1.pptx
[2] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/minutes/minutes-83-i2aex.html
[3] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/altoext/current/msg00083.html

Thanks,

- vijay
-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg@{bell-labs.com,acm.org} / [email-masked]
Web:   http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/

From: Gert Grammel <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:19:20 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

We have already a PCE, so why not go for a Route Computation Engine (RCE)?

Gert

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Montag, 12. November 2012 16:05
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Hi All-=20

How about IRE (system -> engine).=20

n.b. I do not have any objection to IRS (they just charge too much tax ;-))=
 or favor to any name.=20

Thanks

Regards...Zafar

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked]=20
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad.=20
> I've had enough code review hours wasted debating the names of=20
> variables to not want to spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>=20
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we=20
> really need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is=20
> also used for something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>=20
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to=20
> IRS need to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need=20
> suggestions to be floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way=
 we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: Hannes Gredler <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:04:05 +0100
To: Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

for non US-taxpayers the name 'IRS' is not as negative co-notated as one =
might guess.
it is in fact meaningless; - the jin is already out of the bottle (press =
articles, in-house chatter)
and changing names at this point it will be likely creating further =
confusion;
keeping status quo is IMO less painful;

/hannes

On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. =
I've had
> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not =
want to
> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>=20
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we =
really
> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also =
used for
> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>=20
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to =
IRS need to
> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions =
to be
> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will =
possibly reach a
> serious conclusion quickly.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20

From: Raveendra Torvi <[email-masked]>
To: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:06:03 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

My first set of suggestions:

I2RS- interface 2 routing system.

IRNE - interface to routing network element.
IRE - interface to routing element
INE - interface to network element.
APIRS - API to RS.
APIRE

Ravi=20
On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v=
e had
> enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not wa=
nt to
> spend any more time on this sort of thing.
>=20
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we re=
ally
> need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used f=
or
> something else) we need to find a solution soon.
>=20
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS n=
eed to
> contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to b=
e
> floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly =
reach a
> serious conclusion quickly.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20

From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:04:46 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?

Hi All-=20

How about IRE (system -> engine).=20

n.b. I do not have any objection to IRS (they just charge too much tax ;-))=
 or favor to any name.=20

Thanks

Regards...Zafar

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] =
On Behalf Of Adrian
> Farrel
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:50 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
>=20
> Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I'v=
e had enough code review
> hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to spend any mor=
e time on this sort of
> thing.
>=20
> However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we re=
ally need to find a new
> name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for something else) =
we need to find a solution
> soon.
>=20
> Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS n=
eed to contribute to the
> discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be floated, we need=
 solid and definite
> proposals. That way we will possibly reach a serious conclusion quickly.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:49:56 -0000
Subject: [irs-discuss] What's in a name?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Personally, I find discussions of what name/acronym to use a bit sad. I've had
enough code review hours wasted debating the names of variables to not want to
spend any more time on this sort of thing.

However, I note that there was some unease about the use of IRS. If we really
need to find a new name for this work (and I note that RSI is also used for
something else) we need to find a solution soon.

Can I suggest that only those people who have a strong objection to IRS need to
contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, we don't need suggestions to be
floated, we need solid and definite proposals. That way we will possibly reach a
serious conclusion quickly.

Thanks,
Adrian

From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <[email-masked]>
To: Susan Hares <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 00:46:25 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "<[email-masked]>" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS notes from the etherpad scribe

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From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:30:00 -0500
Subject: [irs-discuss] IRS notes from the etherpad scribe

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Here's the notes I took.

Sue 

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class=3DMsoNormal>Here&#8217;s the notes I took.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sue =
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" =
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">=0A=
<html xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang=3D"en" xml:lang=3D"en">=0A=
<head>=0A=
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
/>=0A=
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Language" content=3D"en-us" />=0A=
<title>/AnZKlitP8F</title>=0A=
</head>=0A=
<body>Welcome to PiratePad!<br=0A=
/>raft Agenda for the IRS BOF at IETF 85<br=0A=
/>Monday November 5, 2012<br=0A=
/>1740-1940&nbsp; Afternoon Session III, Salon D<br=0A=
/><br=0A=
/><ul><li>Agenda-bashing and administrivia (chairs)&nbsp;<ul><li>IPR =
note-well was discuss</li=0A=
><li>This is a working group forming BOF so Ross Callon will go through =
a potential charter</li=0A=
><li>Dave Ward will go through the questions<br/><br=0A=
/></li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
>Scope and purpose of BoF (Adrian Farrel)<br=0A=
/><ul><li>&nbsp;Thank you for coming, those who have desires for =
elsewhere will be in the bof,</li=0A=
><li>(see slides)&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Key elements (from slides)&nbsp;<ul><li>consensus there is work to =
be done,</li=0A=
><li>clear focus on topics,</li=0A=
><li>Work is "within scope" of IETF (it could go to routing and/or =
operations)</li=0A=
><li>Critical mass commits to do work(more than 1 or 2 people)</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Now.. to chairs to run the meeting<br/><br=0A=
/></li=0A=
><li>Overview of Problem Statement and Framework (Joel =
Halpern)<ul><li>[see slides]&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>related to but not the same as the use case.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>We are focusing on a problem where applications need to know =
dynamically<ul><li>We are talking about a problem, and not a =
protocol.</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>What's needed&nbsp;<ul><li>Data modeling for Routing for Routing =
&amp; Signaling State<ul><li>SNMP is not a good data model for =
anything,</li=0A=
><li>There is a challenge in modeling the policy and the models</li=0A=
><li>(for models see slide)</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>We need a framework to integrate the external data into =
Roting<ul><li>indirection, poicy, loop-detection</li=0A=
><li>We need to provide the triage that is needed for the "red alert" =
stream</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>We are not starting at protocol - we have lots. We are starting on =
data models.</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Main concerns<ul><li>Standard models&nbsp;<ul><li>clear =
self-describing semantics</li=0A=
><li>sufficient coverage for use cases needing fact</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>applications are not routers -&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>security, authorization, &amp; identity<ul><li>we must put it in at =
the beginning, Security people tell me it can be added on later.</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>It must scale to large sizes</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>(see diagram on slides)</li=0A=
><li>PAL - slides (see slides)</li=0A=
><li>IRS Interface Key Aspects<ul><li>Multiple simultaneous =
asynch<ul><li>long short, some short, parallel opertions</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Configuration&nbsp;<ul><li>We need to interact with the changes of =
configuration</li=0A=
><li>(Many implementations can handle interactions to =
configuration)</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Must know about capabilties, The applications have to know whatyou =
can do.&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>What IRS is not<ul><li>not config, not router/signaling, not the =
only way,&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>not to replace bgp or ospf pll out&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Not to a specific devices or not a specific case</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Start with a Focused Scope<ul><li>small set of data-models (RIB =
layer) for control,</li=0A=
><li>Set of events to support related use-cases,</li=0A=
><li>Data-model for topology,&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>investigate protocol options for the interface</li=0A=
><li>define&nbsp; a set of motivating use-case to drive this scope</li=0A=
><li><br/></li=0A=
><li>We will fail if we try to do all if it!!!!</li=0A=
><li>We have to make extensible,&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>IRS Policy Framework<ul><li>discussion of diagram&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>It has to be many-to-many,</li=0A=
><li>Unfortunatey - we can make the simplification of 1 to many,</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Policy Framework Topics<ul><li>Identity&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Role</li=0A=
><li>Scope - what I can read</li=0A=
><li>Influence - what I write&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Resources<ul><li>that persist and may consume things</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Policy&nbsp;<ul><li>implicit policy - exists within protocols, some =
routers choose between,</li=0A=
><li>explicit policy - read and write in the configuration</li=0A=
><li>Both must be represented in the protocol</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Policy Actions<ul><li>We came up with a start-up</li=0A=
><li>We would like review</li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Discussion<ul><li>Kareeti - you are saying application? I see in =
the use cases that are app</li=0A=
><li>Joel: The long term answer is both. We want data center =
orchestrator to do this eventually.&nbsp; The short term may be the =
network-aware,</li=0A=
><li>Kareeti - we should go back to Minneapolis for boiling lakes =
instead of oceans.&nbsp;<ul><li>I think your policy is different than =
your policy.&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Joel: The IRS policy is different</li=0A=
><li>Joel: In static it may be possible. In my view it will be with =
routing protocols.</li=0A=
><li>-----: IA2EXT - we had a bof to converge in Paris.&nbsp; We were =
lloking.</li=0A=
><li>Joel: We should look at the IA2EXT.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Bombi: Please do ot use the work IRS. Try to come with the word =
IRS.</li=0A=
><li>Bombi: Is it a network API or a router API?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Joel: This is a control entity or a control commissioners.&nbsp; It =
is talking between a control entity and the routers.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Bombi: If you are familar with other things in the other SDOs, you =
should review it.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Tom Nadeau: (Channeling Keyur Patel): IRS is suppose to augment not =
replace.</li=0A=
><li>Peter: You are assuming multiple control planes talking to this. =
Have you looked into the arbirtration in time (yesterday and =
today).&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Joel: This is described in&nbsp; Policy document.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Edward Crabbe: The 'application' terminology we're using is a bit =
confusing; ultimately all the things we're talking about are control =
systems and should be treated as such. The second comment is that you =
can replace routing protcols with this protocol.&nbsp; Whether you =
intended or not.<br/><br=0A=
/></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Overview of Use Cases and Requirements (Shane Amante)<ul><li>See =
list of documents for use cases + a few more produced.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Caveat: There are going to quickly summarize contents of drafts. We =
are not suggesting that all use cases are being addressed =
first.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Look and read the use cases drafts.</li=0A=
><li>In my opinion across several use case drafts is the synthesis of =
the information that the routing control plane has it. I think Joel did =
a great job of highlighting this draft.</li=0A=
><li>Draft 1: draft-amante-irs-topology-use-cases-00<ul><li>There are =
inventory warehouse system that something like this is going to reach =
out and get information from.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>IRS needs to think about get interfaces into those systems.</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Commonality: TE, VPN, Rapid IP &amp; ASN =
renumber,&nbsp;<ul><li>Unique: Caapcity plannig, path cmputation element =
(PCE)</li=0A=
><li>ALTO servers</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Draft 2: draft-keyupdate-irs-bgp-usecases-01<ul><li>BGP =
configuration largest in the box, MPLS-TP is second.</li=0A=
><li>Having the ability to synchronize and migrate is extremely =
important,&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Consistent policy is critical</li=0A=
><li>Traffic engineering - is important as shown by Russ White,&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Common<ul><li>Flow spec(react to&nbsp; DDOS attacks) similar to =
white-irs-use</li=0A=
><li>Optimized ext&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Draft 3 Draft-white-irs-use-case-00<ul><li>common<ul><li>optimized =
extit control - bGP not fine grain control</li=0A=
><li>reacting to DDOS&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>dynamic optimize flows in hub &amp; spoke network,</li=0A=
><li>Inside DataCenterRouter&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Unique<ul><li>Between Data Center routing - Bandwidth on =
Demand&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Fine grain tning of traffic fows in a network</li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Draft 4: Geoffrey Mattson's Draft<ul><li>Optical are off-board, It =
is intriguing to be able to monitor bit error-rate be able to be =
monitored across a number of links,</li=0A=
><li>It is important to move a number of traffic</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Draft 5: Draft-medved-irs-topology-requirements-00<ul><li>Looks at =
the north-bound API -&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>This goes from the comissioner to the application above it,</li=0A=
><li>Clear need for a data model that can provide a common vocabulary to =
describe the elements IRS handles</li=0A=
><li>This use case has protocol requirements&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Draft 6: =
draft-rfernado-irs-framework-requirement-00<ul><li>public-subscribe for =
Asynchroous notification fo events that occur</li=0A=
><li>p2p transprot connection between client and a server,</li=0A=
><li>In order, reliable data delivery in both dirctions,</li=0A=
><li>Security requirement: server needs to validate identity of client, =
before allowing client</li=0A=
><li>Important: from an application that sit above it - the application =
shouldn't have to worry about the mechanisms to provide services.&nbsp; =
There should be templates that can be abstracted from the =
network.</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Requirement Summary<ul><li>Need standard/comon vocabulary to =
describe the functional network components in the IP Routing System =
within Standards-based data models,</li=0A=
><li>Need "application friendly" Mechanisms&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Overall -critical need to make globally optimized =
routing/forwarding and configuration changesto entire =
network<ul><li>When you trying to improve efficency or handle DDOs, =
there is no mechanism to be able to provide routing</li=0A=
><li><br/></li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Discussion after Shane:&nbsp;<ul><li>Russ White: It may sound like =
we boiling the ocean.&nbsp; You need to be able to look at these use =
cases to choose the right cup out of the ocean.</li=0A=
><li>Russ White: No. 2, Peter ter thought we were looking to replace. We =
manage today to the exception.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>(missed section - tool lock out)&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Shane: I would&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Edward: The SNMP function is already there in many places.</li=0A=
><li>Shane: I think you should address the comment the author.&nbsp; You =
can now log into the CLI and make some changes. I hope that you can =
provide a bit better in the IRS. It is a gray area of policy.</li=0A=
><li>Edward Crabbe: with regard to interfaces to structured time series =
datasource - seems quite broad.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Shane: I am already using SNMP to collect data. What I want is a =
data model that sits on top of the data warehouse, that can give me 95% =
above utilization - then the IRS commissioner.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Edward Crabbe: That is broad in scope.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Shane: Some networks may not be as fancy as yours, and get to use =
SQL:&nbsp;&nbsp; comment: this doesn't really have anything to do with =
fancyness - what we seem to be talking about here is a statistical macro =
language for performing all manner of *very common* basic operations =
(means, quantiles, IQR, smoothing of various types etc) ...&nbsp; my =
main concern here is that the set of potentiatl operations here is =
sufficiently broad that it's not worth describing in a(nother) =
standardized statistical macro language -edc</li=0A=
><li>Rudieger: Looking at the slides that Joel was showing shows ways to =
get network elements and access network controls. When I hear Shane, I =
hear multiple interactions.&nbsp; Is the system to give my customized =
BGP usage.&nbsp; Or do we have more modest goals.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Shane: This something for the WG to decide. This is a taxonomy of =
the possible topics.</li=0A=
><li>Potential Charter (Ross Callon)<ul><li>(see slides)&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>WG are best with limited defined charters, OK to do it =
later.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Issue&nbsp; - Fast path vs Slow path<ul><li>this is realtive</li=0A=
><li>we do not want to confuse&nbsp; implementatio verus =
standards</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Which protocol - an existing or define a new one =
protocol?&nbsp;<ul><li>WG needs to figure this out</li=0A=
><li>Initial charter - looks at use caes, not change.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>I doubt we will define a new protocol, we will use another.</li=0A=
><li>Only use cases</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Issue -Use cases<ul><li>Tightly scoped key use cases for =
operational use of IRS.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>These use cases wil include at least:&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Does this preclude other use cases?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>No-- but we need to focus, focus, focus to make progress =
(smile)</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>See charter for&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Questions:&nbsp;<br/><br=0A=
/></li></ul=0A=
>Obvious Questions (Dave Ward)<br=0A=
/><ul><li>How big the community working on IRS?&nbsp;<ul><li>408 =
members</li=0A=
><li>11 drafts, lots of authors&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>25% operators, 35% operators, 25% of academics,</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>What about my use Case?&nbsp;<ul><li>the number of use cases being =
written up is greater than one, counting,</li=0A=
><li>Evaluation of use case is to be considered example not canonical =
design,</li=0A=
><li>They are to make sure we have reasonable targets not the only =
targets for the technology,</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>My encoding is the prettiest<ul><li>No it isn't&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>none are perfect today,</li=0A=
><li>First we start with the data model, and encoding</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Recap: IRS and Prograammign<ul><li>IRS is a mechanism to learn =
state from teh ntework</li=0A=
><li>(see slides)&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>IRS Concerns - a long lsit</li=0A=
><li>Role of netconf &amp; Yang<ul><li>Candidates for session and data =
modeling</li=0A=
><li>Pros: (see slide) yang, modular,&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Gaps: operational state, state persistence, state ownership, HA =
semantics, pluggable on-the-wire,</li=0A=
><li>Topology tools</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Current team investigating Netconf/yang applicability to =
IRS<ul><li>Rex ferando ([email-masked])</li=0A=
><li>Martin Bjorklund ([email-masked])</li=0A=
><li>Bruno Rijsman ([email-masked])</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li><br/></li=0A=
><li>Discussion on the Charter&nbsp;<ul><li>Lew Berger: This theobvious =
comments and use cases that had lots of things in scope.&nbsp; We need =
to be tighter.</li=0A=
><li>Ross: Is this before the working group, or after the working =
list.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Lew: I think it needs to be part of the chartering =
activity.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Margaret: I think that it not clear that there is a incoherent set =
of work.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Ross: This work will only be useful if there is one or more use =
cases that the network operators is there. At the same time the usecase =
needs to be small enough.</li=0A=
><li>Margaret: it is tricky because operators have many types of use =
cases. Why would they want they want to have multiple =
interfaces?&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Ross: Operators are behind you in the line.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Rudiger Volk: I was suggest to come back with an answered =
question.&nbsp; I will stay out of answering Margaret.&nbsp; This is =
tools for interactions for pieces between of system wide =
management.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: What I wrote was multiple signaling&nbsp; .... (missed)</li=0A=
><li>Rudiger: I write my system to write something to define my whole =
network - that is outside the whole network. Something within the =
manager for the interfaces.</li=0A=
><li>Dave: The goal is to have a better control of the logical topology =
from a central control place.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Rudiger: It is the tools for newly created manager.</li=0A=
><li>Jamal: Why did we talk about netconf/yang?&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Ross: It is not a requirement.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Jamal: I can write about my favorite protocol.</li=0A=
><li>I____: The configuration protocols are slow path, and you&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: The current slow path is "text" based script.&nbsp;&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>___: I can do this with my system.</li=0A=
><li>Dave: Type make and see how much it impacts the system.</li=0A=
><li>___:&nbsp; Why don't you have a manager to yang =
andnetconf.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: Even you have a agent that speaks a protocol and parsing. If =
you want</li=0A=
><li>to put this in a routing network node?</li=0A=
><li>Behcet: Is IRS equivalent to SDN?</li=0A=
><li>DAve: Given SDN is everyting -- then it is SDN?</li=0A=
><li>Chris L. :&nbsp; What do we need to have on interfaceto go up? =
(north bound api)</li=0A=
><li>Dave: Our first step was to determine&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Chris L: It would be a good test after we get the use case, to just =
be targeted.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: We will use, abuse, and co-op.</li=0A=
><li>Shane: To respond, I'm not worried about rate of adoption. We are =
not looking for ew protocols.&nbsp; To me as an operator, the most =
difficult time consuming protocol to put in the network is new =
forwarding protocols. It would be best to put new software on the =
existing forwarding plane. Even if we forgot something we can rev the =
software and put it out on the network.&nbsp; If the operators want to =
make sure nothing gets left out. I'm here and I know there are =
others.</li=0A=
><li>Dimitri: We were focusing on states and and information, and the =
going functions that will suggest going point.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: We can include states or going function.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dimitri: It is clearly that we should have functions that are equip =
by memory.&nbsp; We should put this in the charter.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Brian: Simple observation: Slow path versus fast path.&nbsp; This =
is not a gateway to the CLI. The CLI could be a commissioner in the =
box.</li=0A=
><li>Brian:&nbsp; To address Margaret's concern, you might want to have =
some element of the bgp control plane managed across the control =
plane.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Wes: You are trying to boil a body of water - you are looking a =
body of water on another platform. Just managing the rib is sufficient. =
Why can't this be segement?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Rudiger Volk: Now I come to answering Margaret - the key issue is =
the data modeling.&nbsp;<ul><li>Let me answer Margaret was that the SNMP =
modeling was not convenient to be worked on.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>The work to get a unified model for SNMP has been long. The routing =
models is too much. The modeling to do too much is handling.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>It might be a use case models to present data models.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>This whole network is more complex that the simple =
element.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>It is dangerous to boil.</li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Dave: This is the charter is to focus on requirements, RIB, policy, =
IRS. This not a receipe for boiling the ocean.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Rudigier: For the consideration - is this too slow or too =
fast?&nbsp; This is potential issue.&nbsp; But the too fast/too slow</li=0A=
><li>[note taker: The request for Rudigier in the model]</li=0A=
><li>PEter; What they need to in some of the use cases?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li><br/></li=0A=
><li>Adrian: Bring it home.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave:<ul><li>Who will work onit: 30+ in room (?)&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>who thinks should working group: most in + in room&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>not working group: 4-6 people&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li><br/></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Adrian:&nbsp;<ul><li>I'm nervous that we need to nail the charter =
to my use caes?</li=0A=
><li>Three question<ul><li>Do you want this set of documents to charter? =
(5-10)&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Set of documents should be fewer? [not done]&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>A wholly different: none:&nbsp;</li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li></ul=0A=
></li=0A=
><li>Anyone ask about mutlicast? or IRS-TP?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: We'll built it but not at this standard body?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li><br/></li=0A=
><li>Adrian: It calls the difference between an informational and data =
model.&nbsp; People should look at RFC3444 - find the abstract work. Not =
the encoding.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: Thank you, we do understand the informational model is what =
you got scoped down to.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Keerti- Will there be IRS mib?&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li>Dave: We'll take you to push this.&nbsp;</li=0A=
><li><br/></li=0A=
><li>Adrian: Talk and working on this on the mail list. Talk about on =
the mai list.&nbsp;<br/><br=0A=
/></li></ul=0A=
>Discussion (all)<br=0A=
/><br=0A=
/>Summary and Closure (chairs and AD)<br=0A=
/><br=0A=
/>&nbsp;<br=0A=
/><br=0A=
/></body>=0A=
</html>=0A=

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From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:57:42 -0500
Subject: [irs-discuss] etherpad spot to watch notes. .

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http://piratepad.net/AnZKlitP8F

per questions

Sue (etherpad scribe)

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/a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>per questions<o:p></o:p></p><p =
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From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:31:48 -0500
Subject: [irs-discuss] etherpad crashed

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http://piratepad.net/3s3TVEW7vP

2ndary etherpad where I willduplicate notes.

Sue  

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://piratepad.net/3s3TVEW7vP">http://piratepad.net/3s3TVEW7vP<=
/a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>2ndary etherpad where I willduplicate =
notes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sue &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Susan Hares" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:40:23 -0500
Subject: [irs-discuss] Etherpad notes for the IRS BOF

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http://piratepad.net/AnZKlitP8F

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From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:43:08 -0800
To: [email-masked]
Cc: 'Ross Callon' <[email-masked]>, 'Capello Alessandro' <[email-masked]>, 'Maglione Roberta' <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

Greetings all,

On 05Nov2012, at 05.21, "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]> wrote:

<snip>
> =20
> Hello,
>  I have a question on working item 2:
> =20
> =93The working group is chartered to work on the following items:
> =20
> 2.       Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. =
These use cases will include at least:
> a.       Interactions with the RIB
> b.      Association of routing policies with routing state
> c.       The ability to extract information about topology from the =
network
> =93
> Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather =
information about network measurements such as available bandwidth on a =
link, information related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?

<snip>

However, I would want to test those use cases against existing =
capabilities BEFORE adding more use cases.  I'm not sure I'm in favor of =
replicating work and capabilities already done elsewhere (i.e. bandwidth =
available on a link, etc).

	Chris

From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:34:51 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [irs-discuss] Volunteer needed as Jabber Scribe

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We would like a volunteer to be jabber scribe for this afternoon's IRS BOF.=
 Please let the chairs know if you are willing and able to do this.

Thanks, Ross

--_000_62CCD4C52ACDAD4481149BD5D8A72FD30251F479CH1PRD0510MB355_
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<div>We would like a volunteer to be jabber scribe for this afternoon&#8217=
;s IRS BOF. Please let the chairs know if you are willing and able to do th=
is. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks, Ross</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</span></font>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Ross Callon'" <[email-masked]>, "'Maglione Roberta'" <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:21:25 -0000
Cc: [email-masked], 'Capello Alessandro' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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The intention of the draft charter is to seed the list of use cases.
The charter that you all put forward to the IESG (if you have consensus =
to form
a WG) needs to have an agreed list of use cases that the WG will work =
on.
=20
IMHO, this needs to be a closed list for initial work, with a way to add =
further
use cases if needed. I also think that the list in the charter needs to =
be a
fairly short list, and that will require the group to determine where =
its wants
to focus.
=20
A
=20
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] =
On
Behalf Of Ross Callon
Sent: 04 November 2012 18:43
To: Maglione Roberta; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; Capello Alessandro
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter
=20
The draft charter says =93at least=94. Thus in my reading of this, the =
current
proposed text does not preclude other use cases.=20
=20
On the other hand, I think that initially, after the WG is chartered and =
starts
operating as a WG (assuming that this happens), we need to be careful to =
avoid
trying to take on so much work that we don=92t succeed in finishing any =
of it.=20
=20
Ross
(speaking only as an interested individual, giving my personal opinion)
=20
From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:[email-masked]]=20
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM
To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; Capello Alessandro
Subject: RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter
=20
Hello,=20
 I have a question on working item 2:
=20
=93The working group is chartered to work on the following items:
=20
2.       Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. These =
use
cases will include at least:
a.       Interactions with the RIB
b.      Association of routing policies with routing state
c.       The ability to extract information about topology from the =
network
=93
Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather =
information about
network measurements such as available bandwidth on a link, information =
related
to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?
=20
Thanks,
Roberta=20
  _____ =20

From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] =
On
Behalf Of Ross Callon
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Ross Callon; [email-masked]
Subject: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter
=20
Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft charter (for a =
potential
IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been discussing with our friendly =
sponsoring
routing area AD.=20
=20
Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS WG charter in =
Atlanta.

=20
Thanks, Ross
(with input from Dave and Adrian)
=20
=20
=20

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle =
persone
indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla
conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora =
abbiate
ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne
immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua =
distruzione,
Grazie.=20
This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain =
privileged
information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, =
printing
or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended =
recipient,
please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by =
return
e-mail, Thanks.=20
rispetta l'ambienteRispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =
=E8
necessario.=20
=20

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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>The intention of the draft =
charter is to seed the list of use cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>The charter that you all put =
forward to the IESG (if you have consensus to form a WG) needs to have =
an agreed list of use cases that the WG will work =
on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>IMHO, this needs to be a =
closed list for initial work, with a way to add further use cases if =
needed. I also think that the list in the charter needs to be a fairly =
short list, and that will require the group to determine where its wants =
to focus.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>A<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> =
[email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br><b>Sent:</b> 04 November 2012 =
18:43<br><b>To:</b> Maglione Roberta; [email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]; Capello Alessandro<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [irs-discuss] =
Rough Draft IRS Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>The draft charter says &#8220;at =
least&#8221;. Thus in my reading of this, the current proposed text does =
not preclude other use cases. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>On the other hand, I think that initially, =
after the WG is chartered and starts operating as a WG (assuming that =
this happens), we need to be careful to avoid trying to take on so much =
work that we don&#8217;t succeed in finishing any of it. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>Ross</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>(speaking only as an interested individual, =
giving my personal opinion)</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'> Maglione Roberta [mailto:[email-masked]] =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> Ross =
Callon; [email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]; Capello =
Alessandro<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Hello, </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;I have a question on working item =
2:</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&#8220;The working group is chartered to work on the =
following items:</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dlistparagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2;tab-stops:list 0cm'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of =
IRS. These use cases will include at least:</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dlistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>Interactions with the RIB</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dlistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>Association of routing policies with routing =
state</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3Dlistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria;mso-bidi-font-family:Cambria;mso=
-ansi-language:EN-US'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>The ability to extract information about topology from the =
network</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&#8220;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use =
IRS to gather information about network measurements such as available =
bandwidth on a link, information related to jitter delay for specific =
flows etc. ?</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Thanks,</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:blue;m=
so-ansi-language:EN-US'>Roberta </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lang=
uage:EN-US'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, =
October 18, 2012 5:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</=
b> Ross Callon; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
[irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft =
charter (for a potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been =
discussing with our friendly sponsoring routing area AD. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS =
WG charter in Atlanta. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>Thanks, Ross</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>(with input from Dave and Adrian)</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ansi-lan=
guage:EN-US'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-ansi-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table =
class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D600 =
style=3D'width:450.0pt;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-pa=
dding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'><tr =
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><td =
width=3D585 style=3D'width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
class=3Dmsonormal0><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle =
persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione =
derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente =
vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete =
cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di =
provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. =
</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
class=3Dmsonormal0><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
This e-mail and any attachments&nbsp;is&nbsp;confidential and may =
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If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and =
any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, =
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style=3D'text-align:justify'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<img border=3D0 width=3D26 height=3D40 id=3D"_x0000_i1026" =
src=3D"cid:[email-masked]" alt=3D"rispetta =
l'ambiente">Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 =
necessario.</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>=
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From: Christopher Liljenstolpe <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:16:29 -0800
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [irs-discuss] Comment about the draft charter

Greetings all,

	Overall I like the charter.  I do have one suggestion:

I think we should (in point (2)) subject other proposed use-cases to a =
test against existing solutions (at least within the IETF if not ex-IETF =
as well) to insure we don't chase a use-case that turns out to duplicate =
existing work somewhere else.
=09
	That's about it that I would change
	Christopher

From: Thomas Nadeau <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:54:39 -0500
To: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
Cc: Capello Alessandro <[email-masked]>, Maglione Roberta <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

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On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ross Callon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> The draft charter says =E2=80=9Cat least=E2=80=9D. Thus in my reading of t=
his, the current proposed text does not preclude other use cases.

agreed. I think that was the spirit of hat was proposed.

> =20
> On the other hand, I think that initially, after the WG is chartered and s=
tarts operating as a WG (assuming that this happens), we need to be careful t=
o avoid trying to take on so much work that we don=E2=80=99t succeed in fini=
shing any of it.

agreed.

Tom=20

> =20
> Ross
> (speaking only as an interested individual, giving my personal opinion)
> =20
> From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:[email-masked]]=20
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM
> To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]; Capello Alessandro
> Subject: RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter
> =20
> Hello,
>  I have a question on working item 2:
> =20
> =E2=80=9CThe working group is chartered to work on the following items:
> =20
> 2.     Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. These use c=
ases will include at least:
> a.    Interactions with the RIB
> b.    Association of routing policies with routing state
> c.    The ability to extract information about topology from the network
> =E2=80=9C
> Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather information a=
bout network measurements such as available bandwidth on a link, information=
 related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?
> =20
> Thanks,
> Roberta
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] O=
n Behalf Of Ross Callon
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: Ross Callon; [email-masked]
> Subject: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter
> =20
> Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft charter (for a pot=
ential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been discussing with our friendly sp=
onsoring routing area AD.
> =20
> Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS WG charter in At=
lanta.
> =20
> Thanks, Ross
> (with input from Dave and Adrian)
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pe=
rsone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall=
a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbi=
ate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne=
 immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G=
razie.
> This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged=
 information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri=
nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended re=
cipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sende=
r by return e-mail, Thanks.
>=20
> Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 n=
ecessario.
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br>On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ro=
ss Callon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The draft charter says =E2=80=
=9Cat least=E2=80=9D. Thus in my reading of this, the current proposed text d=
oes not preclude other use cases.
</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>agreed. I think that=
 was the spirit of hat was proposed.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">On the other hand, I think t=
hat initially, after the WG is chartered and starts operating as a WG (assum=
ing that this happens), we need to be careful to avoid
 trying to take on so much work that we don=E2=80=99t succeed in finishing a=
ny of it. <o:p>
</o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>agreed.<div><br></d=
iv><div>Tom&nbsp;</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D=
"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(speaking only as an intere=
sted individual, giving my personal opinion)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Maglione Ro=
berta [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:roberta.m=
[email-masked]</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">irs-discuss@=
ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; Capello A=
lessandro<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Hello,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">&nbsp;I have a question on wor=
king item 2:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=9CThe working group is chartered t=
o work on the following items:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lf=
o2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;Tightly scoped key use c=
ases for operational use of IRS. These use cases will include at least:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;V=
erdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span=
 style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Interactions with the RIB<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;V=
erdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span=
 style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Association of routing polici=
es with routing state<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso=
-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;V=
erdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c.<span=
 style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The ability to extract inform=
ation about topology from the network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=E2=80=9C<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Does this bullet exclude the p=
ossibility to use IRS to gather information about network measurements such a=
s available bandwidth on a link, information related
 to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Roberta
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:irs-discuss-bou=
[email-masked]</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><=
br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Attached (in Word format) is a very rough=
 initial draft charter (for a potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have bee=
n discussing with our friendly sponsoring routing area
 AD. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Comments are welcome. We will be discussi=
ng the draft IRS WG charter in Atlanta.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">(with input from Dave and Adrian)<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"600"=
 style=3D"width:6.25in">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"585" style=3D"width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonormal=
0"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:black">Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzat=
i esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia
 o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni s=
ono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per err=
ore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e=
 di provvedere alla sua distruzione,
 Grazie. </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verd=
ana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"=
EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black">This e-mail and any attachments</span></i></span><sp=
an class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;is&nb=
sp;</span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">confidential
 and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. D=
issemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If y=
ou are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attach=
ments and advise the sender
 by return e-mail, Thanks.</span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black=
">&lt;image001.gif&gt;Rispetta
 l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>

</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>irs-discuss mailing list</span><=
br><span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></s=
pan><br><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss</a></span><br></div></bloc=
kquote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-BC0EA3DD-255D-45B0-9DD2-906024C35A63--

From: Thomas Nadeau <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:53:13 -0500
To: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
Cc: Russ White <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:40 PM, Ross Callon <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Speaking only for myself as an individual:=20
>=20
> I agree that this paragraph of the draft WG charter is a problem. For one t=
hing the definition of "Slow Path" and "Fast Path" are not clear, and overla=
p with implementation issues as well as other issues.=20
>=20
> One option would be to just drop this paragraph. To me the charter hangs t=
ogether fine without it.=20

I personally do not find it offensive, but if it clears things up, let's loo=
se it.

>=20
> One alternative: Do we want to say something along the lines of "whatever s=
olutions are selected by the WG will not preclude "fast path" low-overhead a=
ccess to the routing system"? This would encourage the WG to think about wha=
t is needed to allow low-overhead access to data in the routers (both settin=
g and reading), but would not in the charter specify what actually needs to b=
e done to allow this.=20

I don't like the language of "will not preclude".  it's a bit of a double ne=
gative to me. something like "will seek to reuse or develop a protocol that a=
chieves the requirements of low-overhead, etc...  seems more flexible and pr=
ecise to me at the same time.

Tom=20

>=20
> Ross
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] O=
n Behalf Of Russ White
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 1:50 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter
>=20
>=20
> I think this has already been brought up on the list once before, but
> I'd just like to repeat my concerns on it:
>=20
> =3D=3D
> Thus, the IRS is a "fast path" that can be used to program routing and
> policy state in a router using operational paradigms familiar to
> operators of traditional distributed devices. This differs from the
> programmatic "slow state" that is commonly a device's configuration
> interface because those mechanisms impose many transactional mechanisms
> and requirements, that may slow down the interaction.
> =3D=3D
>=20
> Describing the CLI or other existing interfaces as the "slow path," and
> the proposed as the "fast path," is problematic. First, it implies that
> there is a specific path already available into all control plane
> devices, and that single path is "too slow," for some meaning of "too
> slow." Second, it implies, from the start, that we need new path, rather
> than a possible structure around existing paths that we can use to make
> sense of the routing system as a whole.
>=20
> I think 2a needs to be better defined so it doesn't overlap with 2c, or
> 2c needs to be made a part of 2a in some way (?).
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Russ
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> <><
> [email-masked]
> [email-masked]
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> irs-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>=20

From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
To: Maglione Roberta <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:43:11 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, Capello Alessandro <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

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The draft charter says "at least". Thus in my reading of this, the current =
proposed text does not preclude other use cases.

On the other hand, I think that initially, after the WG is chartered and st=
arts operating as a WG (assuming that this happens), we need to be careful =
to avoid trying to take on so much work that we don't succeed in finishing =
any of it.

Ross
(speaking only as an interested individual, giving my personal opinion)

From: Maglione Roberta [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM
To: Ross Callon; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; Capello Alessandro
Subject: RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter

Hello,
 I have a question on working item 2:

"The working group is chartered to work on the following items:

2.     Tightly scoped key use cases for operational use of IRS. These use c=
ases will include at least:

a.    Interactions with the RIB

b.    Association of routing policies with routing state

c.    The ability to extract information about topology from the network
"
Does this bullet exclude the possibility to use IRS to gather information a=
bout network measurements such as available bandwidth on a link, informatio=
n related to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?

Thanks,
Roberta
________________________________
From: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]> [ma=
ilto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ross Callon
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM
To: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Cc: Ross Callon; [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
Subject: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

Attached (in Word format) is a very rough initial draft charter (for a pote=
ntial IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have been discussing with our friendly sp=
onsoring routing area AD.

Comments are welcome. We will be discussing the draft IRS WG charter in Atl=
anta.

Thanks, Ross
(with input from Dave and Adrian)

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per=
sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall=
a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb=
iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar=
ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione=
, Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged =
information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri=
nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r=
ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen=
der by return e-mail, Thanks.
[rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =
=E8 necessario.

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The draft charter says &#=
8220;at least&#8221;. Thus in my reading of this, the current proposed text=
 does not preclude other use cases.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">On the other hand, I thin=
k that initially, after the WG is chartered and starts operating as a WG (a=
ssuming that this happens), we need to be careful to avoid
 trying to take on so much work that we don&#8217;t succeed in finishing an=
y of it. <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(speaking only as an inte=
rested individual, giving my personal opinion)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Maglione=
 Roberta [mailto:[email-masked]]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 19, 2012 8:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ross Callon; [email-masked]<br>
<b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]; Capello Alessandro<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Rough Draft IRS Charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Hello,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">&nbsp;I have a question on w=
orking item 2:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8220;The working group is chartered t=
o work on the following items:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 l=
fo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<s=
pan style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;Tightly scoped key use ca=
ses for operational use of IRS. These use cases will include at least:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verd=
ana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a.<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Interactions with the RIB<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verd=
ana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b.<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Association of routing policies=
 with routing state<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"listparagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;ms=
o-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verd=
ana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c.<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The ability to extract informat=
ion about topology from the network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Does this bullet exclude the=
 possibility to use IRS to gather information about network measurements su=
ch as available bandwidth on a link, information related
 to jitter delay for specific flows etc. ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blue">Roberta
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
g</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mailto:irs-discuss-b=
[email-masked]</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Callon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ross Callon; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Attached (in Word format) is a very rou=
gh initial draft charter (for a potential IRS WG) that the BOF chairs have =
been discussing with our friendly sponsoring routing area
 AD. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Comments are welcome. We will be discus=
sing the draft IRS WG charter in Atlanta.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks, Ross<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">(with input from Dave and Adrian)<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"600=
" style=3D"width:6.25in">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"585" style=3D"width:438.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonorma=
l0"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:black">Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indiriz=
zati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia
 o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni=
 sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per =
errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mitte=
nte e di provvedere alla sua distruzione,
 Grazie. </span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ver=
dana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"text-align:justify"><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D=
"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:black">This e-mail and any attachments</span></i></span>=
<span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;=
is&nbsp;</span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><i><span lang=3D"EN-GB=
" style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">confidential
 and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only.=
 Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. I=
f you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any at=
tachments and advise the sender
 by return e-mail, Thanks.</span></i></span><span class=3D"msonormal0"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:bla=
ck"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"26" height=3D"40" id=3D"_x0000_i1026" src=3D=
"cid:[email-masked]" alt=3D"rispetta l'ambiente">Rispetta
 l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario.</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
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</tbody>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
To: Russ White <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:40:19 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

Speaking only for myself as an individual:=20

I agree that this paragraph of the draft WG charter is a problem. For one t=
hing the definition of "Slow Path" and "Fast Path" are not clear, and overl=
ap with implementation issues as well as other issues.=20

One option would be to just drop this paragraph. To me the charter hangs to=
gether fine without it.=20

One alternative: Do we want to say something along the lines of "whatever s=
olutions are selected by the WG will not preclude "fast path" low-overhead =
access to the routing system"? This would encourage the WG to think about w=
hat is needed to allow low-overhead access to data in the routers (both set=
ting and reading), but would not in the charter specify what actually needs=
 to be done to allow this.=20

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On=
 Behalf Of Russ White
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 1:50 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] Rough Draft IRS Charter

I think this has already been brought up on the list once before, but
I'd just like to repeat my concerns on it:

=3D=3D
Thus, the IRS is a "fast path" that can be used to program routing and
policy state in a router using operational paradigms familiar to
operators of traditional distributed devices. This differs from the
programmatic "slow state" that is commonly a device's configuration
interface because those mechanisms impose many transactional mechanisms
and requirements, that may slow down the interaction.
=3D=3D

Describing the CLI or other existing interfaces as the "slow path," and
the proposed as the "fast path," is problematic. First, it implies that
there is a specific path already available into all control plane
devices, and that single path is "too slow," for some meaning of "too
slow." Second, it implies, from the start, that we need new path, rather
than a possible structure around existing paths that we can use to make
sense of the routing system as a whole.

I think 2a needs to be better defined so it doesn't overlap with 2c, or
2c needs to be made a part of 2a in some way (?).

Thanks!

Russ

--=20
<><
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
_______________________________________________
irs-discuss mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss

From: Ross Callon <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:15:57 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
Subject: [irs-discuss] Draft IRS BOF Agenda

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I just updated a draft agenda for the IRS BOF to the WG chairs page. A copy=
 is attached (in text format). This is an update to what had been posted a =
few days ago.

Thanks, Ross

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<div>I just updated a draft agenda for the IRS BOF to the WG chairs page. A=
 copy is attached (in text format). This is an update to what had been post=
ed a few days ago. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks, Ross</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div> </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
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